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March 9, 2000 - Art Bell

36:03

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - Mission to Mars

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11:23

richard c hoagland

13:02

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Hoagland, Richard, who was a one-time advisor to NASA, to Walter Cronkite during the really exciting space years, won the Angstrom Science Award.
		He's onto this thing about Mission to Mars, the $120 million movie that is going to be released tomorrow that we've been discussing.
		And I've had so much input, and so has Richard.
		There is a raging, raging controversy about what's going on with this movie.
		Now, I have some of my own thoughts on the matter after receiving a lot of messages from those of you who have seen the movie already, but we'll get to that after a while.
		Let me first destroy all the bandwidth of my website.
		We have the trailer.
		We have the audio of the trailer, thanks to David Giamarco, who you will hear shortly.
		If you go to my website and you scroll down to tonight's guests, Richard Hoagland and David Giamarco, before Georgia Durante later, you will see under related information, just click on Mission to Mars trailer, and by God, there it is, on NASA cover-up for 25 years.
		You can listen to the actual trailer itself.
		I almost didn't believe it was real until I heard it from myself about 10 minutes ago.
		We've got it on the website right now.
		Don't believe me?
		Go listen to it.
		So, from the mountains of New Mexico, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Richard.
		All right.
		For those who might not have heard our earlier shows in the week, a very, very quick synopsis of the situation.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been at this, what, 20-some years looking at the possibilities that the face on Mars photographed by Viking back in 1976 represented an artifact of an ancient Martian civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he wrote the book, The Monuments of Mars, City on the Edge of Forever.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A few years ago, like four or five years ago, a bunch of guys at Disney apparently got together and said, hey, let's make a Mars picture.
		Spurred on in part, and their deliberations went forward, by the enormous success of the Pathfinder mission and the 100-plus million web hips and all that.
		At some point, Brian DePalma got involved, and we need to find out exactly when and how.
		That's part of this mystery step.
		To Tom Jacobson, who is the producer of the film under Disney, under Touchstone.
		It was De Palma who entered the idea into the script consultations and discussions.
		Well, let's have them, the mission to Mars, find the face on Mars.
		And it was De Palma whose idea was to design and put in all these extraordinary special effects, which, by the way, I now know more about, and we'll get to some of the specifics later on without giving away the plot.
		And it turns out that something comes directly from the enterprise.
		That's new news.
		Anyway, a few weeks ago, we got a heads up from some people in the industry.
		You know, Paul Davids is a friend of mine, and Hollis, his wife, is a senior VP now at Universal Studios.
		We got a heads up that, in fact, Mission to Mars, which no one had heard anything about, was going to feature the face.
		So, you know, my ears prick up.
		Gosh, I can't imagine why.
		And we went digging.
		And one of the people that we came across...
		Well, you know, think of them kind of like spock ears.
		You know, they get really pointy at this stuff.
		So one of our efforts turned up a very good guy, a very, you know, stalwart person who believes in, you know, truth, just, and the Canadian way, because he happens to work for a major Canadian newspaper.
		His name is David Giamarco.
unidentified		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And David called me and said he wanted to interview me several weeks ago for a piece he was doing.
		He just talked to Tim Robbins and I guess a couple other stars of the film.
		And he wanted to know, knowing of our work, my reaction to Mission to Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I, of course, gave it to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you did.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it appeared in the paper.
		And in the course of our discussions, he told me that he had been invited to come to the Hollywood screening along with everybody else that they all fly in for these things.
		And I said, oh, isn't that interesting?
		How would you like some background material?
		So I sent him a copy of the illusion of the UN stuff, the NASA briefings, because NASA's been inviting us in for years to tell them, the rank and file, over and over again, what we have found.
		And we put these on good old home video.
		So I sent this whole, you know, care package of stuff to David.
		And it takes like almost two weeks for snail mail to get things to Canada in case you are sending anything up north, folks.
		It finally arrived.
		You went to the premiere.
		Inputs that, according to David, are unprecedented in his 14 or 15 years of covering good old Tinseltown.
		So with that, Art, I guess we ought to bring on David.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's do that.
		Toronto, are you there?
		Let's try again.
		David Giamarco, I think in Toronto.
		Now, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are in Toronto?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And David, what do you write for up there?
unidentified		I write for the National Post, Entertainment Reporter.
		I've been covering the Entertainment Beat for, I guess, about 15 years now.
		Ah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you had an opportunity, just before we get into anything else, to see the movie itself, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've been debating why the director of the movie is avoiding all press and all interviews.
		And I've been hearing from my audience about this movie.
		Now, let me tell you, some of the comments I've had lead me to believe that it might be the reception the movie is getting itself.
		I mean, I have got, well, right, I've got, here's one from somebody who's a theater employee and got to see it early the way you did.
		And he said, sitting in the theater with a bunch of friends about 20 minutes into the movie, the hissing began.
		By the time the people started dying in the movie, people actually were shouting, I'm glad you're dead.
		Now, it doesn't get any worse than that.
		Was it really that bad?
unidentified		At the press screening, there were a lot of teeters and giggling and that sort of thing and certain spots in the film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I've been to literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these screenings, and given that it's the press, you'll hear those types of things.
		So yes, there was some of that going on.
		But as I said, years of doing these things, I could count on one hand the amount of times that a director has pulled out of a film junket.
		I mean, you know, they've worked on these films for two, three, sometimes even four years if it's a major production, and rarely do they ever pull out.
		It's usually really extreme circumstances that they won't talk to the press.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, they've got tons of money at stake, $120 million.
		It's a serious thing.
		Absolutely.
		So, why do you think he disappeared?
unidentified		It's a mystery.
		I mean, we've heard a lot of different stories.
		I mean, at first we heard that he was sick and had to leave, but then later on, other stories started surfacing that he was upset with the reaction to the film and took off.
		But they kept saying they were hearing a lot of wild stories and a lot of wild rumors why he wasn't talking.
		And, you know, Brian De Palma has done a number of junkets before, and if you remember, he directed Bonfire of the Vanities, which was one of the most...
		Exactly.
		And was one of the worst films of the early 90s there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except you start Bruce Willis, sorry.
unidentified		And yet he showed up to talk at that junket.
		So I don't believe that it could be just the fact that some press people were laughing or giggling.
		He's been in this business a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's look at another aspect of this.
		Thank God for you, David.
		We kept hearing, and I kept getting faxes from people who have been saying, I saw a trailer where they said, I mean, NASA did consult very heavily in this movie, right?
		Even script approval.
		All right, so we're getting these words that there's this trailer out there saying 25 years of cover-up will end.
		25 years of cover-up.
		My God, there's no way that NASA would approve any such thing as that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A conspiracy.
unidentified		No way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I asked the audience to send the trailers, and I got all the other trailers, but I didn't get the one that we now finally have.
		And by God, it says 25 years of cover-up ending.
		Now, how can that be?
unidentified		And one other note is the face that they showed, the images of the face on Mars in the trailer is of the actual pictures from the Viking mission, not the face that appears in the movie.
unidentified		This isn't right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's impossible.
unidentified		It's happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would destroy any future possibility they would ever have of having NASA consult on a movie.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Or call the other part of the government.
		Because remember, it's one big, unhappy family.
		You screw with one part of the government, and the other part's going to say, heck, I'm not going to get into bed with those people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You probably audit half of them.
		Yeah, sure.
		I mean, that's a little overdoing it, but you're right, Richard.
		It's screwing with the government.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But what's even more remarkable is I have been watching, because I work a lot late at night when the phones don't ring, and I watch the Disney Channel because there's a certain, you know, into Vault Disney where they go back into the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Disney did a series of films with Wernher von Braun and the early von Braun Pinamunde paperclip NASA scientists or Nazi scientists that were brought over in excruciating detail on missions to Mars, how to go to the moon, the creation of the huge rockets.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There has been a very strong, overwhelming connection between the foundations of NASA and Walt Disney and the Disney Corporation for literally almost 50 years, which makes this even more unbelievable.
unidentified		Even in the early 60s, you know, further to what Richard's talking about, Walt Disney was shut down by J. Edgar Hoover because J. Edgar Hoover didn't approve of a film, a comedy in the early 60s that he felt the FBI agents portrayed in the film were bungling, or bumbling, I should say, and asked for them to change the agents from FBI to just generic government agents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When Mr. Hoover spoke, everybody listened.
unidentified		Oh, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So this trailer then really exists at 25 years of cover-up.
		It shows the actual face on Mars at Sidonia.
		And what does this mean to you that there are two trailers out there running and even possibly two versions of the ending of the film?
unidentified		Could that be true?
		I checked out the film.
		As I said, I saw it two weeks ago, and I checked it out again last night.
		And the print that was here in Toronto still was the exact same version I saw in L.A. So as of last night, it was still the same print.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then.
		Why this trailer?
		Do you suppose they sat in there and said, you know, we've really had it with Hoagland.
		And we're going to put this trailer out, and we're going to drive him totally up a tree.
		It's either that or they want a little controversy to get people into the theater, or I don't know what.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look, I have an ego as big as anybody else, but this is much bigger than that because David has been on the phone with NASA headquarters.
		And the reaction of the official space agency to this is also completely off the wall.
		It makes no sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, you called NASA when?
unidentified		I called them yesterday, and, you know, of course, get transferred around the agency as you keep going higher and higher up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And finally, I got someone to sort of speak to me, and I believe she was in charge of public affairs, media relations, whatever.
unidentified		And she said, you know, I just asked her, you know, about this film, what the reaction was, and she said, I'm sorry, we're not allowed to comment on the film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		And I said, really?
		And she kind of laughed a bit.
		She said, no, we're not allowed to talk about the film.
		And I said, so you can give me a review?
		Thumbs up, thumbs down, kind of joking with her.
		And she said, well, she said, a number of people here at NASA have seen the film already.
		She said, I can confirm that we did work on it, that we were consultants, we did have a hand in the making of the film.
		And she said, other than that, I can't talk about it.
		And so I said, well, are you aware of this trailer that is running about a 25-year conspiracy and cover-up and that on March 10th, the conspiracy will be exposed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And there was a bit of a stunned silence.
		And she said, what?
		And I repeated it.
		I didn't play it for her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		And then right away, she said, is this about the face on Mars?
unidentified		And I said, well, yes, it is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How many cover-ups can there be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And so, and she said, oh, I wasn't aware of that.
		And she said, you're going to have to talk to somebody else about this.
		And she said, I'll get them to call you.
		You can have your name and number and that sort of thing.
		And then never heard back from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say, I bet you got a real fast call, uh-huh.
unidentified		Yeah, which is also interesting is that I spoke to a colleague at the Washington Times, and she also happened to be at the junk hit as well and doing the interviews.
		And she also was trying to get a comment from NASA.
		One of her colleagues was trying to get NASA to speak about the film.
		And she said they got stonewalled as well, that they would not talk to them about the film either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think NASA feels like they've just been knifed in the back?
		Or do you think they're just wanting to disconnect with what obviously they considered to be not a good movie?
		Or what's your best guess?
unidentified		My best guess is they haven't evaluated the situation yet and they're reserving any kind of comments.
unidentified		Because, as I said, the official at NASA wasn't even aware of these trailers running and seemed a little shocked.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, this is interesting because if we can flash back to some reality, back in 98, when finally, after enormous efforts from this audience, from the Bell audience, thousands of faxes, tens of thousands were dumped on Dan Golden's floor to get the face on Mars and Sidonia reimaged by Mars Surveyor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, and we got to get that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		After the images came out, NASA very carefully said politically to the press it would have no official comment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, they didn't come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like going down to the one-hour photo and a lady saying, sorry, sir, you know, your role is all here's the important political point.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A NASA camera, actually was the Malin camera on a NASA spacecraft that taken the pictures.
		Now man.
		But people like Edwin Alby and, you know, many others, Mike Carr, all kinds of NASA scientists freely went on talk shows and TV and Dateline and CNN and had all kinds of thoughts and opinions about what the photographs showed, even if there was, quote, no official NASA opinion.
		They were not told, you can't talk about those pictures.
		And on a movie that doesn't count, where the First Amendment, as far as I understand, still holds sway in the District of Columbia, and this does not fall under the Hatch Act, which prevents politicking on federal property.
		That's what Al Gore got into trouble for a couple years ago.
		The employees, according to David's first-person testimony, are permitted to talk about the film or even express their own opinion.
unidentified		This is bizarre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is bizarre.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, unless, unless, boys and girls, we've been right all along.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is really something on Mars, and NASA has now got egg all over its face because somebody has pulled a real switcheroo, and Disney, which used to be in their camp, absolutely 100% 24-karat gold, has suddenly turned on NASA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on that note, gentlemen, hold on.
		Break here at the bottom of the hour.
		Oh, such intrigue.
		Well, that puts people in the theater, doesn't it?
		And I know I'll be there.
		Mission to Mars coming up, released tomorrow, everywhere.
unidentified		Her hands are hollow gold.
		Let's sweet surprise.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She's got better days and fast.
		The colour you think on.
		You won't have to thank twice.
		Secure of New York tonight.
		The wildcard line is open at 1775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell from the Kingdom of NASA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed, and you have got to hear this trailer.
		We've got it up there for you.
		Go to my website, scroll down, Richard Oakland, David, Gimarco, and you'll see related information.
		Mission Mars trailer.
		Listen to that, and you'll know we're telling the truth.
		It's out there.
		Can you imagine how NASA must have reacted when they...
unidentified		When...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, listen, one quick almost public service announcement.
		A free program celebrating the third anniversary of the Phoenix Lights is being held.
		That's right, the Phoenix Lights, they're called.
		It's being held at the main library in Glendale, Arizona on Monday, March 13th at 7 o'clock.
		Peter Gerston and Richard Masser will join Dr. Skye, heard here on Coast to Coast AM, for a three-hour program of discussions, debate, and audio-visual presentations on the anniversary.
		Now, get this, folks.
		Believe it or not, this week and next, including Monday the 13th, the Air National Guard is conducting the same Operation Snowbird, which drops flares in the very same area as seen three years ago.
		Wouldn't surprise me, but they'll throw six-foot dummies out as a bonus.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, once again, Richard C. Hookland and David Giamarco in Canada, who has seen this film and has written about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, is Mission to Mars the space version of Water World?
unidentified		Well, it'll depend on the box office.
		A lot of the critics that I've talked to and, you know, who are at the screening as well, nobody was that terribly enthused with it.
		Let's just put it that way.
		I don't think it's going to be a bomb.
		I really don't.
		You know, the trailers that are running make it look amazing.
		A lot of people have been saying that the trailers are just astounding.
		And, you know, so I think it'll attract a huge, huge audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it turn into a cult film?
unidentified		It may.
unidentified		It may.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How does one define a cult film?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, 2001, which started out being a bomb in the eyes of the critic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a cult film.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But how do you define a cult?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is a film now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's just a phrase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, Bob Jones called the Catholic Church a cult, so we're kind of in good company here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I didn't mean it in that sense.
		I mean, in a good sense.
		A movie that 20 years from now, people are going to be still watching religiously.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's Gone with the Wind a cult film?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, it is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's a major classic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you want to go see it, major classic, Richard, I give.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		2001, it took a generation for 2001 to become that classic.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Almost, you know, from the time it was made to 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, when people first went to it, the critics said, what the hell?
		Many people to this very day are saying, what the hell, but they still watch it.
		It's a great movie.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's now like modern art where if you don't understand it, you're with the in-crowd, therefore you kind of go, mmm, yes, wonderful.
		Great depth.
		Look, I think this film will become a classic if for no other reason we know there's a face on Mars, we know there's a cover-up, we know there's an alien ancient civilization with some connections, and this is the first major film dealing in the history of film with that reality.
		It cannot help but become a classic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, this other trailer in mind, do you think two endings have been written for this movie?
unidentified		It's possible.
		I'm not saying it's for sure, but it's possible.
		I mean, it has happened before where we've seen a film two, three weeks before it's due for release, and based on the critical response to a screening, they will change the ending or they will change certain portions of the film or they will shorten it or, you know, that sort of thing.
		So it has happened where in that three-week window before release, they can change a movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it be, with that said, that they were so concerned with the reaction to the screenings that they have changed the ending?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we won't find out till tomorrow.
unidentified		You know what?
		What I think the critics were having a problem with in the film wasn't so much the ideas in the film.
		It was, I think some of the character development was a little clunky, was a little shallow.
		There was, you know, clunky dialogue.
		It was that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would move somebody to say, I'm glad you're dead.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, there were certain things like that.
		I mean, I found the story intriguing.
		I was intrigued by it.
		And by the end, the end of the film, people were, I don't want to say on the edge of their seat, that's quite a cliche, but they were wrapped up in the ending.
		It was the process of getting to the ending that I think put off a number of critics.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which is the same reaction to 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down a lot of times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They said it was slow.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They said it was boring.
		They said there wasn't enough dialogue.
		There was enough character development.
		And it all depends on what era you are.
		I mean, this film is making a statement about an extraordinary mystery that's lingered now for over a generation, which is non-trivial.
		Is the human race alone?
		Has someone been next door and has tinkered with us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it represents the first major Hollywood reaction.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		$120 million is not, you know, pocket change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No matter what happens to this thing aesthetically, it will go down in history as history plays out.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was the first film to deal with the implications on the big screen with a mass audience of what this would mean if it's real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, by the way, I really loved Water World anyway.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen Water World yet, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		You know what?
		Water World wasn't that bad.
		And to set the record straight, it made money.
		It ended up making $400 million around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		Yeah, so it actually did make its money.
		I just interviewed Kevin Costner recently, and he just, he said, you know, I want to thank you.
		You were the only reporter that's pointed out that it actually made money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was actually, it was a wonderful movie.
		I still have it.
		I'm a collector of movies.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, sometimes these things don't come into their own until maybe a half a generation later when there's some perspective.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it may be, I mean, I'm going to predict that regardless of the immediate reaction to the film, this film, Face of Mars, Mission to Mars, Dealing with the Face, is going to become a classic simply because nothing else has touched this on this scale up until now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then maybe 20 years from now, Richard, when we call NASA and get the little gal on the phone, she'll say, NASA's proud to have been presenting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		After John McCain is elected in the Queen's House?
		That's a whole other evening, okay?
		We've not heard the last of John McCain, but that's a whole other evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, let me ask David, Richard, as you have gone through this, David, what is your, you know, like your final conclusion?
		I mean, the two trailers, the two possible endings, nobody's talking, no interviews from the director, NASA won't talk.
		I mean, what does all this probably mean?
unidentified		It could mean a number of things.
		One, you know, it could be that people are trying to distance themselves from the film, that they don't want to speak because there's been an advanced bad buzz from the critics.
		But, you know what?
		This has happened so many times before, and directors, good or bad, will get out there and defend their film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And they've devoted a lot of their life to this film, you know, two, three, four years, and they will defend it.
unidentified		They will talk about it if it's getting a bad reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's to get a one-weekend gigantic pop.
		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		So why would he walk away?
		That's just mysterious.
unidentified		You know, he won't, usually, for some reason, if we can't get a director to talk at a weekend when all the press are together, they will at least set up phone interviews or for print press or for TV, they'll set up satellite interviews that you can do at a later date before the film opens.
		But in this case, none of that is available.
		Brian will just not talk to anybody.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know, the thing that strikes me about this is that normally when you play this game of conspiracy, you have a great deal of speculation and almost no facts.
		Here we have a lot of facts and some interesting speculation based on the facts.
		Fact number one, NASA was in bed with Disney and De Palma on the making of this film.
		Everybody agrees.
		NASA's not saying, oh, we had nothing to do with it.
		They admit they had a lot to do with it.
		Fact number two, the director was Brian DePalma, whose brother, the physicist, was intimately connected with this enterprise investigation of the real face on Mars and the mysteries of Sidonia for almost 10 years.
		Now, to who's tonight regarding that relationship, which we teased a couple nights ago.
		David?
unidentified		Well, thank you, Richard.
		When I was interviewing Story Musgrave, his handler was a but works with NASA.
		And he handles a lot of, he's a liaison between Hollywood and NASA when they're involved in Hollywood productions.
		And he said to me that Bruce DePalma was on set last June.
		And he was involved.
		He was on set in Vancouver when there was shooting, and he was there.
		And I said, did you know that he passed away last summer?
		And he didn't even know that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But he did confirm that he was there on set with Brian, his brother.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, this, of course, makes it even more interesting because we have speculated that somehow in the relationship between De Palma and his brother and Enterprise, Brian De Palma got a lot of background information on what we have really figured out about Sidonia, which then somehow will wind its way into this film.
		And one of the reasons I urge you to go is we're going to have a great game next week with how many Enterprise mission research points can you find buried in various aspects of this interesting feature film.
		We now know, we've got eyewitness testimony, that Bruce was on the set, not once, but several times.
		Now, I can reveal tonight that this is a major piece of information because from the conversations I had with Bruce, there was a lot of, shall we say, distance between the two brothers.
		Initially, when I met Bruce, obviously, you know, the name was familiar, and I was thinking in terms of a film someday maybe made by Brian DePalma.
		You know, history is incredibly ironic sometimes.
		And Bruce quickly disabused me of this idea, saying very flatly, he said, my brother and I do not understand, come to terms on almost anything.
		We do not see eye to eye.
		We barely even speak.
		But sometime between that conversation, which was years ago, and the time that Bruce died, quite suddenly, he somehow made up with his brother and was invited to be an integral part of this film.
		And so when I see, in terms of this trailer, some of the most remarkable things that Enterprise has done quietly and not put out there in public, I am very intrigued to know what else is in the film that people would not recognize unless they were intimately familiar with the work of the Enterprise mission.
unidentified		Well, 19.5 sure pops up a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it really?
		Yeah.
		Now, you know, Richard said that to me, but I think sometimes Richard sees 19.5 in cloud formation.
		So it's really true, David?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I mean, do you want me to tell you where it pops up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't give away the end of the movie.
unidentified		Okay, well, I'll try not to.
		The end of the film, near the end, I'm not giving away the ending, but one of the spaceships, and he's in the capsule, and some of the other astronauts are at the face.
		And he gives him the liftoff time as 1950.
		He says, we have to take off by 1950.
		And it gets repeated constantly.
		You see, you know, the digital clock, 1949, the countdown, the 1950 is liftoff.
		And, you know, knowing what Richard has told me and researched and whatnot, I mean, it seemed very ironic.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Last year when we did the Lost Tomb special, remember I was in Seattle for a week or two working with a group called The Other Side?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, the folks at The Other Side, who really are creative geniuses, a whole bunch of ex-fighter jocks, and they've turned their time and attention to creating some amazing 3D simulations.
		What they did is they worked on with us a three-dimensional simulation of going to Sidonia.
		And we worked out the interiors.
		I mean, these guys came up with some amazing things with some input from me and some science and whatever.
		Well, lo and behold, in one of the major scenes on the film, David, as I gleaned from the trailer this evening, that recreation that the folks at the other side and I did of what's inside the structures on Mars appears in Mission to Mars.
		And on and on and on.
		So what I'd like to do is to make a little pact.
		We will not discuss any more content of the film, but we urge everyone between now and next Tuesday, you better go out and see this.
		Because if you don't, by next week, we're going to come back with some more surprises and discuss all the little points and relationship between the fiction and the reality and NASA's weird reaction and Disney turning around and giving the finger to its former best Washington friend, et cetera, et cetera.
		So if you want to be unsurprised, you better see a film this weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you better listen to the trailer we've got up on your website right now, too.
		David, Richard had a really serious brush with the Grim Reaper.
		He had a heart attack.
		I guess you know about that, right?
		Yes, I told you about that.
		You know, if he had hit the dust back then, at the end of this movie, would it have said, Richard?
unidentified		Well, Plasa was behind this film.
		I don't know.
		We'd have to defer to Richard on that one.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There are times when your sense of humor, Mr. Bell, exceeds only your longevity in the industry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will say this film will be at the end.
		Oh, is there really?
		Oh, really?
		Yeah.
		Egyptian.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why am I not surprised?
unidentified		There inside the face, there is a heckload of imagery, Egyptian imagery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I'm giving too much away at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any part?
unidentified		Why?
unidentified		Oh, well, we need to give anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know why, Richard.
		The face, many people think of as solid.
		I mean, maybe not after this movie.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Not if you read The Monuments of Mars.
unidentified		And just back to the 19.5, I mean, when was the last time there was a countdown for a spaceship that was at, you know, 10 minutes to the hour?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, you know, 1950, which spaceship is due to take off at 10 minutes to an hour?
unidentified		Isn't it usually always on the dot, on the hour or the half hour?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Depending upon your launch windows, but obviously that number is iconized in terms of what we found and figured out.
		Look, the bottom line here is we have a paper trail.
		We have an eminent director who somehow got in charge of this major film, Going to Mars, changed the script, inserted the whole face persona.
		If you believe what Tom Jacobson said in the interviews to you, David, and his brother worked with us for 10 years.
		I mean, this is not rocket science.
		This is pretty straightforward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David, I have a question for you.
		As a journalist, could you follow up and find out who produced this second incredible trailer that is running?
		And maybe somebody would talk?
unidentified		I could try.
		I could certainly try and find out who was behind it.
		I mean, I know the trailer was only, I think it's only been in the last two weeks or last week that it was actually produced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Because one of the associates at Disney, you know, said, I wish we had had this trailer, you know, weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Because they, you know, realized that this is a much better trailer.
		And they said, well, you know.
		I mean, the trailers up until now had been building it sort of as, you know, the Space Cowboys going out, you know, conquering the Wild West of, you know, the new frontier out there in outer space.
		And it was patterned more after the Armageddon.
		This one, you know, cuts right to the chase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it seems to me that if we could get to the production company that churned the second trailer out, there's a story to be told there that might answer some of our questions.
unidentified		I do believe, I do believe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the things that David's source in Washington was going to try to do is to get close to Dan Golden, which apparently is possible, and ask him point blank what the hell is going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to pursue that, David?
unidentified		Yes, definitely, definitely, and find out.
unidentified		I mean, she recognized as well that there's a real story here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you written a story on this already?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, on this whole controversial aspect of the thing?
unidentified		Yeah, I ran an advanced piece about two weeks ago, and tomorrow is the next piece.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The advanced piece still hasn't arrived in the mail, David.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got another piece coming out tomorrow.
		Tomorrow, yes.
		Any hints?
unidentified		Any hints on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What it's going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you say?
unidentified		Since I wrote it.
		Yeah, it's more of what I started two weeks ago.
		I mean, it's more discussing the film, the interviews, and this enigma of what's going on behind this film.
		I mean, these mixed messages that are coming out here.
		On the one hand, you have NASA endorsing this film, and then on the other hand, they're saying that they're behind a conspiracy and a cover-up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think they've done this just for Richard and myself.
		Drive us out of our minds.
		Anyway, everybody should go see it.
		I certainly am going to.
		Richard, final words.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, we're going to go see it this weekend because I want to talk about it next week, and I want to bring on some more surprise guests that I think will be appropriate.
		And I want to get into the content because, look, the backdrop to this film is a reality sitting on Mars tonight.
		And we need to take all the attention the film is going to generate and create a political tool to get new pictures of Sidonia and resolve this mystery once and for all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real pictures.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Real pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all for it.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, as always, thank you.
		David, Giamarco, thank you so very much for coming on tonight.
		No problem.
		And when you learn more, you'd be in touch, all right?
		Absolutely.
		All right, good night.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, everybody.
		And so the Mars mystery continues.
		Mission to Mars mystery continues.
unidentified		I tried to reach for you, but you have come to find whatever happened, you are lost.

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