Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

March 8, 2000 - Art Bell

02:26:38

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Nolan - Surveillance and Technology Issues

Participants

Main voices

01:48:59

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, the night featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, the soggy southwest.
unidentified		It's raining again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here comes that program heard from Hawaii to the Caribbean to South America to north all the way to the pole and worldwide on the internet.
		Postpoint.
		Hi there.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Great to be with you this morning.
		Well, let's see.
		The news.
		What a surprise.
		Bill Bradley read it an endorsement of Al Gore.
		So, in other words, if Bill Bradley is endorsing Al Gore, that means Bill Bradley's out of there.
unidentified		So that race, over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John McCain canceled further campaign events and signs his presidential, some signs rather, that his presidential nod was about at an end.
unidentified		So it's all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the voting, the shouting, the screaming, as I sadly predicted, Bush, gore, Bush, gore, gore, Bush, gore, Bush, Bush, gore.
		God, who even cares?
		This has just caused me to lose all interest in the race between these guys.
		I don't care.
		They're going to talk some real different talk.
		You know, that's what I have to say about Bush Gore.
		They're going to talk some real different talk.
		Their rhetoric is going to be very specific toward the party faithful.
		And the difference in the way the two of them would govern eaten as much.
		And I'm holding my fingers as close together as I can get them.
		That's my opinion.
		There's no difference in the way they're going to govern.
		So, you know, this is the kind of thing that, in my opinion, gives a lot of ammunition to all the conspiracy people who are always saying the fix is in and, you know, at the top, the thing that's going to happen is going to be the party thing, the money thing.
		Can't argue with that, huh?
		Certainly the way it turned out.
		So again, my comment in the election, and I will not do this much more, I promise.
		Absolutely disinterested.
		Now, this is something kind of intriguing.
		Oh, my, this mission to Mars movie.
		I may have some answers for you tonight.
		I don't know.
		I've got some feedback.
		Now, I don't have the trailer yet, the one Richard was talking about, but a zillion people have written to me saying they have seen the trailer.
		So it exists out there.
		The websites don't point to it, the ones that you gave me, the URLs you gave me.
		They don't have the original Face on Mars in the trailer, movie trailer, or preview as some people know them.
		I haven't seen it yet.
		But a zillion people have said, yeah, it's there.
		I got this email from somebody supposedly on the inside.
		And it says, unfortunately, the conspiracy, in quotes, trailer was originally conceived by the advertising department.
		And yes, somebody there did indeed say, quote, I bet this'll drive Hoagland effing nuts.
		My emailer says, ah, the price of celebrity, Richard.
		There were two, he goes on, this is Mr., well, we'll just use CR.
		There were two, CR says, there were two separate endings filmed indeed.
		I have no idea which one was prepped for distribution.
		This is not an uncommon practice.
		M2M, or Mission to Mars, was well tested at consumer opinion services.
		Well, maybe, but this is one explanation.
		And I got a lot of these, so it may be.
		Just let me read it.
		This is Rick.
		Rick writes, Dear Art, I just got back last night from a theater employee screening of Mission to Mars.
		My girlfriend called and said that they were going to show it.
		She works at the theater, so I jumped in my little Geometro Mobile and was there.
		I think the real reason De Pama left town was because of negative press.
		This was a long, bad movie.
		I really wanted to like it, and it does have its moments.
		They actually had character development, which most MTV-watching people have no time for, somewhat like The Right Stuff did, which was great.
		The audience was composed of theater workers and their girlfriends and boyfriends, and no doubt a few other people who must have been friends of friends.
		Sounds right, doesn't it?
		He goes on now.
		Here's where he fries it.
		About 20 minutes into the movie, the hissing began, and by the time people started dying in the movie, people in the theater were shouting, I'm glad you're dead.
		I hadn't seen anything like this since Jar Jar Binks first appeared on the screen.
		But back to De Palma.
		I came home and heard your show with Richard, and I think the real reason he left was so many bad reviews.
		I don't think any filmmaker of his status wants to face bad press.
		Well, I don't know.
		He'll eventually have to say something, right?
		I have no way of knowing Whether this is the way you or I would feel.
		Here's another one.
		I have so many.
		Dear Art, I've been listening to last night's archive show from the internet, obviously written today.
		My wife was able to procure two passes to the sneak preview of MDM, and we saw it last night in Cincinnati, here in Cincinnati.
	Now, I'm not going to go into any details because I don't want to spoil your viewing, but I will say that we were terribly disappointed with the picture's production.
	The basic story is good, and obviously, the writers listen intently to Coast to Coast A.M. and Richard.
	Contrary to possible implications Richard raised pertaining to the flight of De Palma, I feel he fled due to embarrassment.
	So there is a couple of really heavy raps on this movie now.
	I wonder if how the rest of us will view this.
	Remember 2001 when that movie came out?
	People in droves were saying, hey, I don't get it.
	Actually, a lot of people still don't get it today.
	I'm not sure I do.
	I have my own concept of the ending of that movie, but it became a wonderful cult movie.
	Right?
	2001 was great.
	So maybe this is in that category.
	You know, the line here that worries me is the one that says about 20 minutes into the movie, the hissing began, and by the time people started dying in the movie, people were shouting, I'm glad you're dead.
	That's got to be, that's pretty rough stuff, I would say.
	But you've got to consider that this is a distinct possibility of all the other ones that we have been considering in this area.
	Got a picture I want you to see.
	Tomorrow night, we're going to have a really unusual lady here, Georgia Durante.
	Now, Georgia wrote a book called The Company She Keeps.
	Georgia was a getaway driver, a getaway driver for the mafia.
	And I've got to tell you, if ever there was a classic photograph, the one I'm going to send you up to my website to see is really a classic photograph.
	First of all, Georgia is, by anybody's definition, a stone fox.
	Oh, I mean, she is really good looking.
	But a getaway driver for the mafia.
	Now, that's going to be an interesting story.
	You've got to see the photograph of this lady that's going to be on tomorrow night.
	Absolute stone fox.
	Drove for the mafia.
	I wonder how much she'll say.
	Don't you?
	I wonder how much she'll tell us.
	All right, I have some serious news here.
	This is from all of you.
	For example, Hiart, the winds in western Nebraska, eastern Wyoming, and the Denver-Boulder area were up to 100 miles per hour last night and into today.
	A whole subdivision has been evacuated outside Boulder.
	Now, you listen to this.
	100 mile per hour winds.
	A lot of roofs gone, of course, parallelines down, what you would expect from 100 mile-an-hour winds.
	But that's serious, serious stuff.
	Western Nebraska, eastern Wyoming, and the Denver Boulder area.
	Then I got this.
	Heartbreaking news.
	The city of Milwaukee was hit by a tornado.
	Now, I don't know that Milwaukee was hit.
	Somebody in Milwaukee can tell me.
	I don't know what hit means.
	It says here, here in winter, numerous reports of injuries, damages, especially by the Milwaukee airport.
	Breaking news, he says, wow.
	Well, I don't have any other news article on it, but I don't doubt it.
	There probably was a tornado somewhere near Milwaukee.
	Somebody I'm sure will tell us.
	Or how about this?
	70 cities broke records yesterday as the March, quote, heat wave continued to build across the Northeast and the Great Lakes states.
	Temperatures have touched 80 degrees.
	80 degrees.
	West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania.
	New York City and New Jersey will have a cooler day as a kind of backdoor cold front comes down.
	But I guess what I'm trying to say to you is, late in the show yesterday, I read to you an article entitled, Science Turns to Indians.
	And what it is, is basically that NASA has decided that they are going to put money into having consultations with American natives about climate change.
	Now you can read this article if you want to.
	It was a Gannett News Service article by Missy Globerman entitled Science Turns to Indians.
	And I wish some climatologist would call me.
	Maybe one with guts.
	You know why?
	Because our weather is not just wrong now.
	It's way wrong.
	Everything is wrong everywhere.
	Everything has been upside down.
	The weather has obviously massively changed on us.
	Certainly in my opinion from reading the stories.
	I think most of You share that.
	So, in my opinion, it is time for some climatologist who cares about all of us out here to come forward with something other than El Niño, La Niña, or whatever else you've got to explain away the outrageously changed weather.
	And in my view, it's just beginning.
	I mean, it's just beginning.
	So I want somebody to come forward.
	I don't know how else to appeal other than to say some climatologist who's willing to discuss, perhaps come and calm our fears.
	And maybe he will tell us why all of this is normal, a normal cyclical thing within the weather cycles.
	And, you know, that might be something I guess a climatologist might say.
	But, and that's fine.
	I understand why they would say it, but I've got to tell you this.
	I wouldn't believe it.
	There's something else happening, and I don't think they know what it is, and I think they want to know, and I think they're trying to find out.
	And I think, as we discussed last night on the show, that NASA's going to the American natives is not just some political tactic.
	I think they know something's wrong.
	And their doing that is roughly the, in my mind, the equivalent of, well, how best to put it.
	It's the equivalent of a police force that has been trying to solve some sort of murder, some sort of hard to solve, no clues, don't know what the hell we're doing, murder.
	You know, finally, somebody picks up a phone and calls a psychic.
	And so to me, NASA's doing this is almost in that category.
	I really think that's a pretty good parallel.
	So I'm after a climatologist.
	You know how to reach me.
	Artbell at mindspring.com is my email.
	If any climatologist out there would like to come and attempt to tell us what's going on, I would very much appreciate that.
	I'm sure the audience would too.
	We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of March 8, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End All right, as you know, I sleep a weird double shift to be able to do this program, and so I had a lot of sleep interruptions, so I had a lot of dreams.
		And here's a dream I had last night, and you can laugh at it if you want, but it's a dead truth.
		I have never in my life, first of all, you should know, I have never been a salesman.
		By that I mean somebody who calls up people and sells even commercial advertising on the radio, television, or any media, or never sold vacuum cleaners, encyclopedias, or I've never been a salesman and sold anything in my life.
		But the dream I had last night was like a scene out of Glen Gary Glen Ross, the movie, you may not have seen that or you may have, about some real estate salesmen.
		And it was a pretty sad movie.
		But it was like a scene out of that, except get this.
		I was hired by this company to do advertising in a world under the earth where gnomes lived.
		Whole world down there.
		And moreover, there were levels of this world, and you had to walk down steps to get to either.
		And I was complaining bitterly about there not being any elevator.
		Nevertheless, you had to, I needed this job, I guess, in my dream.
		And I forget it paid $60,000 or $70,000 to start.
		I'm trying to give you an idea of the detail of this dream.
		And I went down, for example, one of my clients was going to be this gnome, this little gnome that had advertising tattooed all over him.
		And this was going to be one of my clients.
		And I'm thinking, what the hell am I getting into?
		And the world above, even the office, the scene out of Glen Ross, that's hard to say, especially fast.
		Glengarry, Glen Ross.
		Was that the flora was collapsing and the world on top was slowly falling in on the gnomes.
		Anyway, the dream went on in great detail.
		It's like I was just dropped into somebody else's body.
		I had no relationship to my life whatsoever that I know of.
		Now, I know dream interpreters will say, yes, of course it has some relationship to your life right now.
		But it was a cool, it was a weird dream, and I felt like I worked when I was done.
unidentified		You're listening to Archbelt somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
		Dreamin', love will be mine Searching.
		I'm always searching.
		Hoping, someday I'll find.
		Where are those happy days?
		They seem so hard to find.
		I tried to wait for you, but you have closed your mind.
		Whatever happened to our love, I wish I understood.
		It used to fade from life, it used to fade from blue.
		Oh, when you hear me, darling, can't you hear me?
		It's the way.
		Oh, when you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, go and try, how can I carry on?
		Oh, when you're gone, how can I carry on?
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There never is going to be another ABBA.
		They were just absolutely one of the best of the entire genre, as far as I'm concerned.
		They recently turned down a billion dollars to get back together again.
		I think it was a wise decision.
unidentified		Oh, when you hear me, darling, can you hear me?
unidentified		Even ABBA could never be that again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolute perfection in music.
		By the way, the photograph I want you to see of Georgia Durante, who's going to be on tomorrow night, is on my website now.
		And the way to get to it is go down to her name.
		And just to the right of her name, this woman who was a getaway driver for the mafia has her photograph.
unidentified		And, boy, I'm telling you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An absolute stone fox.
		Mrs. Soprano.
		All the way.
		And more.
		It's going to be an interesting, should be a very interesting interview tomorrow night.
		John Nolan here at the top of the hour, and we'll be talking more about Echelon and other stuff like Echelon.
		So that should be interesting.
		In the meantime...
unidentified		Sounds of the wind Thank you.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of March 8, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music I'm wondering if I should do a night of possessed people.
		This was a listener's suggestion that I thought had great merit.
		Doing a whole night of people who actually believe they are possessed by an entity.
		You can see what kind of trouble that would invite for me.
		And what I would get.
		I'm probably going to schedule a night of the possessed.
		I think I'm going to do it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Going once, going twice, gone with the wind.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		I was wondering if your network is going to continue.
		I mean, you're on three nights a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		And the commercials, you know, can they fit any more commercials into your time slot here?
unidentified		I mean, my God, it's like a half hour of commercials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if I were you, I wouldn't ask.
unidentified		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't mean to broach a warning you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be careful what you ask.
unidentified		I'm telling you, these guys are really tightening it down.
		It's incredible.
		That article on the Indians, by the way, I hope you can scan it and get it on your website, but I don't know if that's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I tell you, by the time you have faxed a newspaper article to me, and then I take my already degraded facts and try and scan it, bad idea.
		It won't work.
		No way.
unidentified		Right.
		And, you know, those commercials, it's way out of line.
		But that's just my opinion.
		I don't mean to upset anyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, if you want to know the truth, it is the industry standard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you listen to Rush or Laura or any of the others, you'll find the same amount of things.
unidentified		I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I hear you.
unidentified		It's disappointing.
		You know what?
		Because believe it or not, we are out here and we love you, and we like to hear more of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the sentiment, and all I can say is, will say, is that soon you'll have news on this subject.
		That's all I can say.
		Soon you'll have news on this subject.
		So patience for not very much longer.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Extinguish your radio, please.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I'm sorry about that.
		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was my own voice coming back in badly garbled digital cell phone.
unidentified		I apologize for that also.
unidentified		I'm calling in regards to last night's show with your gentleman, the Desert Chad, was that his name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desert Chad at the phone booth out in the middle of nowhere, yes.
unidentified		Right.
		I kind of found it hard to believe some of the things he was saying.
		I saw a thing on either like on a 2020 or a dateline, something like that, one of those type shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he had the phone booth on showed an older man that was out there that did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, like an elderly man who got to be the right thing.
		His website's right on the money.
		It shows everything.
		It's all there.
		You can check his website out.
		He's real McCoy.
unidentified		Okay, what was his website again?
unidentified		Because I'd like to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know it offhand, but if you go to my website, the link is up there right now.
unidentified		Okay.
		And also with your Urban Legends last night, I really get into that sort of thing.
		And so I enjoyed your show last night tremendously.
		I drive every night from Knoxville to Nashville, Tennessee, and back.
		And you and Raleigh keep me company all night long.
		There was one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was one, sir, that we didn't cover, and I'm so sorry we didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the one about the fireman who's out skin diving, who gets scooped up by the helicopter that's picking up water to put out fires.
unidentified		And dumped into the fire?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, from a high altitude.
unidentified		I hadn't heard that one.
unidentified		I hadn't heard that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's going around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called, And You Thought You Had a Bad Day.
unidentified		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		The one that I was thinking about, oh, shoot.
unidentified		I tried to call in last night a bunch of times and tell it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you've lost it, haven't you?
unidentified		Yeah, it split my mind all of a sudden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that your final answer?
unidentified		That's my final answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Tawasi calling from Eugene, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Tawasi.
unidentified		I would like to encourage people to vote for a third party with a little something that I thought of, and also make some comments on your own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to just give them money?
unidentified		No, that's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, then how can you compete with political parties that damn near do that?
		I mean, George Bush had an interior decorator for his campaign office in Austin.
		An interior decorator.
unidentified		That's pretty sick.
		This is my encouragement.
		My encouragement is that one of the candidates is...
		Bold face that he smokes marijuana.
		Now about the global superstorm.
		I really think that you were right on the money with that.
		At the end of the book, where you talked about solutions for the problems that we're facing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the one area, by the way, in which Whitley and I somewhat differ.
unidentified		I really think that you're on the money with the bit about riding bicycles and getting away from the fossil fuels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely agree with that position.
		However, I don't think there's one chance in hell that that's going to happen.
		Not a chance.
		If you think people are going to cast away their automobiles, which rank probably somewhere next to the wife in terms of endearing feelings, or maybe sometimes even ahead of, in some cases, you're crazy.
		People are not going to give up their cars.
		Forget it.
unidentified		In Eugene here, we have actually quite a few people who have done it.
unidentified		And sitting in my picture window every morning, easily a dozen people ride by on their bikes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but if you took all the people that feel that way and put them together, you could kill them all with one 18-wheeler.
unidentified		Well, that's probably true, but the point is that there are solutions out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
		Yeah, sure.
		That's right.
		solutions out there Is everybody going to give up, or even most of the people in America, do you think they're going to give up their cars?
		To either walk or heaven knows what?
		Get a bicycle.
		Yeah, right.
		What are the chances of that really happening?
		sorry i don't think one in Saganism.
		Billions and billions and billions.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		This is TJ from Milwaukee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		Comment about tornadoes you heard about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		We did have one at the airport at Mitchell International.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, now this is winter time.
		It's just the beginning of March, and we're having tornadoes that far north.
		Now, I really need a climatologist to come on board because I don't know what your memory is like, but this crap doesn't happen.
unidentified		No, this is, you know, the news up here seems to be saying that we are an additional city to this growing list of major metropolitan cities getting this type of strange weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, right.
		But what I want is some sort of an attempt at an explanation from a climatologist.
		And, you know, I know the minefield we have to go through and talk about global warming and all the rest of it.
		I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that we're in the middle of a change that they won't talk about.
		Okay.
		How's that for a bottom line?
unidentified		Well, I couldn't disagree with you.
		I mean, the weather around here has been strange to say the least.
		You know, we had 80-degree weather two days ago, breaking records all over the state.
		And now tomorrow, or should I say later on today, it's supposed to snow.
		And we had a tornado last night.
		So, I mean, where is the continuation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you, sir.
		I hear you.
		I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
unidentified		There you have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just that simple.
		It really is that simple.
		The weather is changing.
		We all know it.
		Anybody but a complete idiot would not know it.
		I think at this point it's far past any lame attempt at just saying, well, you know, it's part of a cycle.
		Which actually, in the broader sense, might be true, but it doesn't address the rapid climate change that we seem to be going through.
		Not slow, really fast.
		In terms of weather, this is occurring very quickly, wouldn't you say?
		International line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
unidentified		It's Devin from Calgary, Canada, Colin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, hello.
unidentified		Listening to you on the web.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a guest suggestion for you.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Douglas Adams, the author of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to have Moron.
		Yes, I am.
		Of course I am, and I'd love to have Moran.
		Oh, great.
unidentified		Do you know when that's coming up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, you and I just now talked about it.
		How can I know when it's coming up?
unidentified		I don't know.
		Just that's all for tonight.
		Thanks a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're welcome.
		I'm not that fast.
		Yes, I'd like to.
		I think I've said that before, too.
		I would like to interview the man who wrote that.
		Great book.
		Be a fun interview, no doubt about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Bill.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your best guess, Bill?
unidentified		This is art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You really don't sound like.
unidentified		You always say you never sound like art, but you really don't sound like art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can't even get a thrill out of that line anymore.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know I don't sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see.
unidentified		You sound really wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to give you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to give you an explanation of how things work in radio.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're either listening on an AM station or an FM station.
unidentified		I'm listening to you on AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		AM, alright.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is.
unidentified		This is an art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		There's no way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're onto me, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		This is a pre-recorded voice, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn, do you know that you're only like the fifth caller to discover that, sir?
unidentified		No, I'm serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm serious, too.
		You're only the fifth one in the history of the show.
		You're only the fifth caller.
unidentified		It's all pre-recorded then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like the movie Matrix, and none of what's happening is really happening.
unidentified		So it's all been done before then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, time and time again.
unidentified		It's like a tape that plays over and over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Endlessly.
		Just a big tape loop.
		It's a reality.
		It's amazing that you as a caller, one of the few callers in all these years, have gotten that.
unidentified		That's not right, though.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's wrong these days?
unidentified		I mean, if Earth people are going to be calling other people, I mean, it should be...
unidentified		It should be a human being that they want to talk to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The time for human beings is coming to an end.
unidentified		Are you serious?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As serious as I've been about the rest of this call.
unidentified		What about your son, though?
		I mean, you have a son, right?
		I do.
		Well, what's going to happen to him, then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same thing as the rest of us.
unidentified		We're all going to die then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think I said that.
unidentified		That's just kind of weird.
unidentified		I have a story to tell you about my cat, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was waiting for your cat story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be fast, though, because I don't have a lot of time.
unidentified		This isn't Art Bell, is it?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is an automated voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed with your cat story.
unidentified		No, that's alright.
unidentified		I'd rather talk to Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed with your cat story.
unidentified		I don't want to talk to Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed with your cat story.
unidentified		This isn't Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed with your cat story.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I have a cat named Sean, and he has a stash of rubber bands that he keeps underneath the fridge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rubber bands.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And he pulls out a big rubber band that he hooks up between his forepaws and his backpaws, and he plays it like a banjo.
		He plucks the rubber band with his teeth.
		And he plays it like a banjo and plays music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your cat plays music.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, I mean, you should see it.
		It's incredible.
		I've never seen it myself, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, wait a minute, this is your cat.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do you mean you've never seen it yourself?
unidentified		Well, I've heard the music that he plays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who?
unidentified		My cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I haven't seen your cat playing the music?
unidentified		No.
		I've heard the music, though.
		I have a cat, and he has a stash for bands that he keeps underneath the refrigerator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are telling your story twice, sir.
unidentified		Well, this isn't art, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not.
		You have caught us.
		This is not art.
		Art appreciates your call, but such a call could never get on the air.
		We have hereby screened it out.
		So you think I ought to open the possessed line or not?
		How does that last caller make you lean for a yes or a no on the possessed line?
		I'm leaning more toward no.
		Stay right where you are.
		We will be right back, I think.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 8, 2000.
		Coast to Coast AM from March
		9, 2000.
		I really want to know you.
		I really want to go with you.
		I really want to show you love before I go.
		Hallelujah.
		To be continued...
		In the in the spring sun of the ear, in the tree from the leaves, and the ash and look, and the birds on you and dread.
		Premiere Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		And this nice music Lorena McKennett.
		She is a Canadian artist, and nobody else is doing anything like it.
		It's really awesome stuff.
		Coming up is John Nolan, who is an intelligence, counterintelligence type.
		We'll have him talk about get his version of Echelon.
		And we've had a couple of versions of Echelon now.
		One from a lady who worked within and says that we're spying on Americans.
		That's a very, very serious charge.
		Then we had an NSA guy who said, no, he'd be the first to report something like that.
		But he admitted he was a company man.
		And we'll see what Mr. Nolan has to say.
		Should be interesting.
		the whole echelon thing is interesting because of course it involves us.
unidentified		you The End Now we take you back to the night of March 8, 2000 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Here's the facts that got John Nolan on here with me.
		And it was just as Echelon was currently.
		Echelon is a program that literally can listen to everything being transmitted in the world.
		According to most definitions I've heard of echelon.
		From baby monitors to telephones to email to everything you do.
		Dear Arn, I spoke with Peter Klein, the 60 Minutes producer for this piece, about the numerous inaccuracies reported in his piece last night, according to Rod, Rod Mitchell.
		Considering that CBS's sources were primarily from Europe and that NSA would not come, it is no big surprise.
		There is a much bigger story here that you could break on your show and your audience would find what Nolan has to say about it fascinating.
		I'm also trying to reach the radiant lady in Las Vegas and of course I've had her on the air.
		So we did connect.
		John Nolan connected with me or I with him and he's in biz and has been.
		He received his Bachelor of Arts degree Magna Cum Laude with double majors in international relations and foreign languages from Mount St. Mary's College, his Master of Arts degree in international relations distinction from the University of Southern California and his Master of Science in Security Administration from Central Michigan University.
		His professional training includes coursework at the U.S. Army Intelligence School, Fort Hovard, Maryland, Defense Language Institute, Fort Bliss, Texas, and Monterey, California.
		Oh, yes.
		U.S. Army Intelligence Center and School at Fort Pachuca, Arizona.
		Numerous other courses and other institutions and locations.
		That's worded in an interesting way, such as elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and many formal courses and specialized tutorials in a variety of settings and technologies, ranging from certification and practitioner training at the Center for Application of Psychological Type to Behavior Modeling.
		So there's your background, and here's John Nolan.
		Hi, John.
		Good morning, Art.
		How are you?
		Oh, pretty good, I would say.
		This phone has a little bit of hum in it, by the way, John.
		You are plagued with interesting phone problems over there.
		Well, that's life in the big city.
		Maybe that is life in the big city these days, John.
		That was an interesting laugh, which I'll recall and possibly record and play back.
		John, let's first talk about Echelon, all right?
		You saw the 60-minutes piece done on it?
		Sure did.
		You did?
		Did you see the lady on there that said that she'd been privy to a conversation with Senator Helms?
		Actually, I think she said Strom Thurman.
		I'm sorry, Strom Thurmond.
		You're right.
		Thank you.
		Yeah.
		And, you know, that's not really altogether that remarkable.
		I can imagine somebody sitting down doing his knob twisting routine with his headphones on, and suddenly he comes across something that he recognizes as being reasonably interesting.
		It doesn't mean that he was looking for Strom Thurmond.
		It's just that he got Strom Thurmond.
		And it doesn't mean that he was spying on Strom Thurmond to see what kind of sexual appetites he has at the age of 96 or anything like that, marrying a much younger woman.
		But rather, it was simply a matter of, hey, listen to this.
		Guess who this is?
		A pretty prominent guy at that time and still at this time.
		So that would be the kind of thing that would pique a young operator's interest as he's sitting at a console.
		And I can very easily see where he would wave to someone as your guest alluded.
		That as she walked by, he said, Hey, listen to this.
		Guess who I'm talking, or guess who I'm listening to.
		And I mean, when you're picking up literally millions of conversations a week or a month, and as you scan through them, because of whichever keywords the dictionary has caused to come up in a conversation, tag it to be listened to.
		There is a list of those words floating around, by the way.
		Should be the official list.
		The official list starts off with.
		Have you seen it?
		Oh, sure.
		Is it accurate?
		The first word on the list is art, and the second word on the list is bell.
		Of course, an alphabetical deal.
		I can see this is going to be fun tonight, John.
		You have seen that list, though.
		In actuality, no, I have not.
		I do not know what the list says.
		I do not know how long that list is, although I would imagine that you're two pages of small type.
		Every keyword you can think of, and the ones you might imagine, of course, like terrorism, bomb, fuse, kilo, on and on.
	Right.
	Whack, snuff, snatch, those kinds of things.
	No, all of those things.
	And all of the variations in the various languages, of course.
	And so it's not just listening to people speaking in English, but people speaking in other languages is the reason that they have so many different languages.
	But it certainly includes English, John, and apparently at times includes us.
	Now, if they would venture.
	Now, look, I understand your story about, ooh, cool, look who I found.
	Maybe.
	But the other possibility, of course, is that it is used domestically to some great degree.
	Or if it isn't, then the other truth is that we have the British listen to us and we listen for them.
	Either way, the American people are being spied on.
	Now, is that the bottom line or not?
	I think that that's probably the bottom line.
	But please understand that those are people who are mixed in with all the rest of the people that are on the airwaves as well, whether they're French or whether they're Algerian.
	Well, fine, so we share this lack of privacy with the rest of the world, is what you're telling me.
	Yeah, effectively.
	But I guess that the real issue is, are you waiting for the jackboot of fascism to come down on our individual necks here in the United States?
	Yeah, some people would ask that question.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And, you know, I read something just the other day.
	It was a quote of a German professor who was visiting in the United States, and he was giving a speech in New York, and he talked about the black cloud of fascism that's descending upon the United States.
	And I think it was somebody like Moynihan pointed out that, yeah, while Europeans very often see the black cloud of fascism floating over the United States, it always seems to come to roost in Europe, however.
	Well, Europe is a lot different.
	The English are a lot different with regard to their internal security than we are.
	Really, a whole lot different.
	You and I couldn't be having this conversation legally in Great Britain.
	There's no way that the Official Secrets Act would have had both of our hearts cut out.
	They'd have us both in jail.
	Yep, absolutely.
	Under the jail.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Under the jail.
		Yeah.
		And that's absolutely true.
		We have far greater rights, and the very fact that we're having these kinds of conversations.
		We think we have.
		Well, every freedom is an illusion of one sort or another.
		It's just kind of like one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
		that's really something to think about freedom is I think I said every man's freedom is his own illusion or something.
		That's what you said.
		That sounds like the Matrix itself.
		I mean, here we are walking around thinking we're free and we're private and, you know, happy days are here again or still here or something.
		And the world is a pretty cool place, but the world is actually a pretty scary place.
		A very dangerous place.
		And so I guess that one of the questions is to what extent are you willing to give up a certain degree of your privacy as long as it doesn't affect you directly?
		Or for safety.
		Yeah, in exchange for your safety.
		And I would venture that if somebody were to have a complete and full understanding of the degree to which intelligence operations have been successful impediments to international terrorist activities directed against and within the United States.
		I don't doubt it for a second.
		Then people would probably say, yeah, I'd be more than happy.
		I mean, I'm not a company man.
		But you are a company man, though, huh?
		Well, no, I'm not.
		I haven't been.
		I've been out of the business since 1988.
		The argument you're making is the company argument.
		Oh, yeah, it's the company argument.
		What I'm suggesting.
		And I'm not saying you're wrong.
		I'm just saying you're giving us the straight-line company argument here.
		Well, I'm suggesting that perhaps people, if they stood back from it and said, how much of that am I willing to surrender?
		I'm also not saying you're right, by the way.
		Oh, I understand.
		I understand that wholeheartedly.
		what i'm suggesting is that if people were given the opportunity to make a decision between surrendering some of that and not then they would probably surrender it in exchange for the safety of their children it's kind of like your that your Absolutely.
		Well, you know, if you look at the East Bloc, people who live in Eastern Europe and people who are still very much communist-oriented people in the former Soviet states, you know, they saw a great deal of comfort in knowing that the state was protecting them.
		And they make a very legitimate case now for saying that communism, practiced, socialism going toward communism, in the Soviet model was actually very effective for stemming hooliganism and hoodlums and murderers and dope dealers.
		Look at what capitalism is.
		Just like echelon is, in the same sense, right?
		Yeah, and so it provides you a certain degree of stability in an unstable situation.
		But other people would say, hey, yeah, but that's like communism here.
		Yeah.
		Well, that's that to a certain extent.
		Government intrudes in all of our lives to a certain perhaps even inexorable degree.
		And I personally am not necessarily in favor of it.
		Please understand that, too.
		Personally, you're not in favor of it.
		Personally, you're arguing the case for it, though.
		Yeah, if I were to want to trade my family's well-being and ultimately comes down to trust, is my family going to be disadvantaged by the government, or would the government, for its basic purpose, and that is protecting its citizens from internal and external threats, then if it's doing that, then at some point you just got to say, ladies and gentlemen, I trust them.
		Or I don't trust them.
		That's an individual decision that people have got to make.
		But I go back to your earlier statement.
		The freedom that we believe we enjoy and the privacy is in fact an illusion.
unidentified		Oh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
		I mean, that's no small statement.
		It's an illusion.
		Things are no different here than they are in Britain.
		We are monitored as much as the British are monitored.
		It's just that we trade information back and forth, because otherwise, for our agency to do it would be illegal for the British.
		I don't know about the British.
		They're probably spying their own people.
		In actuality, they're probably...
		But not from the government.
		But not for the government.
		That's right.
		Their government is much more intrusive than ours.
		And yet at the same time, I, with a private investigator's license, can learn all manner of things about virtually any citizen.
		Of course.
		Because of the access that I might enjoy to a series of databases.
		Yes, but if you as a private eye can do that with the amount of access you have.
		And actually, in truth, private citizens through the Internet now have a lot of information gathering capability.
		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		Then try and imagine what the government itself has in terms of ability to gather information about.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are lots of constraints placed on government agencies, and so that's one of the other things that you kind of need to walk the fine line about when you're trying to assess the level of problems in a person's privacy, on a personal privacy level.
		That is to say, which bureaucrats are willing to actually break all of the laws that were put into place by the Congress in order to monitor and provide oversight of the intelligence community during the 1970s.
		Who is really willing to go to jail for violating someone?
		But technically, these, you know, unless you want to talk about echelon actually spying on Americans as a regular practice, it doesn't matter.
		I mean, if the British are doing the work for us with a wink and a nod, passing the information to us, then, you know, what's the diff?
		I mean, we, American citizens, have got to face straight up to it.
		We're being monitored full time.
		Full time.
		All of our stuff, emails, telephone calls, not listened to all the time, but monitored all the time.
		Right.
		And there's a very that's a serious, serious thing when you think about it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really serious.
		And what you've got to do is decide, what am I going to do about that?
		If I were to be doing something about it, I would not reduce my conversations to a cell phone or to a landline phone.
		How about this?
		Kilo, kilo, kilo.
		I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.
		Yep, bing.
unidentified		Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wing, wing, wing, wing, wing.
		Down in the middle of the desert.
		There he is.
		That's right.
		Hurrying about.
		That's right.
		Hold it right there.
		Kilo, kilo, kilo.
		I'm Matt as hell, and we may not take it anymore.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8, 2000.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		A very old friend came by today, cause he was telling everyone in town, of the laws that he just found, and the reason they, of his latest thing.
		He talked and talked, and I heard him say, that she had the longest, blightest hair, the prettiest green eyes anywhere, and the reason they, of his latest spring.
		Though I smiled and tears inside were burning, I wished him luck and then he said goodbye.
		He was gone but stood at first, kept returning, what else was there for me to do with crying?
		Would you believe, that yesterday, this girl was in the realm and swore to me, she'd be my attorney, and the reason they, of his latest spring.
		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks tonight.
		An oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is one of Miss Presley's lesser-known tunes, but I love it.
		It's always been my favorite, actually.
		I don't know why.
unidentified		I think it's the backgrounds.
unidentified		That music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, good morning, everybody.
		We're talking to another spook.
		Probably object to that phrase.
		John Nolan.
		And we're talking to him about echelon and privacy and whether we really want to trade the privacy we have.
		You know, actually, I guess academically you can consider that question if you want to, but the fact of the matter is that we weren't asked about that, or at least I don't remember being asked about that.
		Would I be willing to trade the privacy that I thought I had, this little world that I was living in, this bubble that I had, thinking that my phone calls and emails were really private.
		Nobody ever asked me if I'd be willing to trade it.
		They just, you know, they took it away.
unidentified		They just, you know, they took it away.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of March 8, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End You know, I'd like to warn that computer running those commercials that I have shot machines before.
		I really have.
		I shot a computer once, an entire computer.
		So if you and your electronic blackness can hear me in there in that machine, that's a two.
		That's a two.
		When we get to three, it's a bullet hole time.
		Now, very briefly, Daryl, a friend who taxes frequently, with regard to my final caller of the last hour, said, I wonder if that caller voted in Tuesday's primary.
		Then again, I don't.
		For those of you who heard that caller.
		All right, back to John Nolan.
		As I said, it's kind of fun to talk to a spook because you can ask all kinds of questions that they can only answer in certain ways.
		But, you know, you do your best and it's fun to try.
		Hi, John.
		Hi, all right.
		So now, do you see what I'm saying when I say when you pose the question to us about whether we'd give up that much safety for give up that much privacy for that much safety, it's not like you're asking us before you do it.
		That's true.
		What I'm saying is they didn't ask us.
		They didn't ask you.
		Well, as a matter of fact, this has all been part of a very mystical and serpentine process by which I'm actually on your show tonight because Bill Casey asked me, or assigned me, to ask you tonight if you're willing to surrender in the interest of your personal safety.
		You know, Bill Casey now, of course, the former CIA director who's been dead for eight or nine years.
		It was a very long distance call.
		But he asked me to ask you if you're willing tonight.
		So are you willing?
		So obviously you're not.
		But, you know, it's, you know, John, John, John.
		I don't know.
		The answer is, I'll give you my answer right now.
		I don't know.
		I'm thinking about it.
		I'm thinking about it.
		That's my honest answer.
		I really don't know.
		I'm not prepared to give you an answer.
		Well, how about this?
		Let me ask you the question.
		Now, I'm not sure if I'm not sure if you're a good person.
		What I'm pissed off about is the fact that I wasn't asked.
		You understand that?
		They're listening to me, and I wasn't asked.
		I understand.
		And that's a real concern that a lot of people have justifiably got.
		So I guess the question is, what do you do about it?
		And that's the next logical follow-on question is what do you do about it?
		And I think that there are some things that you can do about it.
		Yeah, you could try to have some law passed that the U.S. could not receive intelligence on any domestic electronic transmission from any other country.
		But I figure that's about one in a billion.
		Yeah, well, I mean, it gets to kind of like the issue of gun control.
		You're going to pass another law because a six-year-old shot another six-year-old?
		I mean, another law is not going to help, right?
		And you know as well as I do that, and as all of your listeners know, that laws are essentially just like locks.
		I mean, they're put there to keep honest people out of your house.
		Laws are put there to keep honest people from doing bad things, and law breakers have a tendency to do that anyway.
		So, I guess that the issue is if you want to go beyond trying to cause that one in a billion piece of legislation to make it up the chain, then what do you do?
		You take some personal actions.
		And there are personal actions that you can take as companies take action.
		Like what?
		Well, for example, you know, you remember last time I was on, we were talking about my book, Confidential.
		And the third section of that is all dedicated to helping a company protect itself.
		But, you know, the exact same principles apply when you're protecting yourself.
		Give me a specific.
		Okay.
		First thing is, you know, you've got to have a rational level of awareness of what the threat is to you and who poses that threat to you.
		Well, I don't know that, though.
		I know I'm being listened to.
	I don't know what kind of threat that may represent.
	Sure.
	Well, on one level, you say everybody now understands, courtesy of you and many other people, that Echelon is capable of intercepting every phone call that everybody makes.
	So that means I will not discuss anything over a telephone line that I wouldn't want my mother to know about or that I wouldn't want on the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
	I mean, there are very few times.
	But that includes a whole lot of stuff, John.
	Oh, sure, it does.
	I mean, a whole lot of stuff.
	I mean, let's face real facts here.
	There's a lot of guys who've got mistresses.
	Sure.
	There are a lot of guys who probably have mistresses of the same sex.
	There's a lot of guys who have a lot of secrets out there.
	A lot of guys who have gone to visit a hooker and their wife doesn't know about it.
	There's, boy, we could just go on and on in every category you can business.
	Gee whiz, there's secrets you wouldn't want a competitor to know about.
	If you were an inventor, you might have a really big secret until the patent was approved.
	You're absolutely right.
	And all of these things could be at risk.
	Right.
	And that's what I'm suggesting, is that if you don't have an awareness of that to begin with, then you're going to go off will-ny-nilly, and you're going to say the wrong things in the wrong places through the wrong medium, and it's going to have the chance of being picked up and identified, identified with you, and etc.
	And then you have to have an understanding of what it is that is important for you to protect.
	I mean, that's at the very core of it.
	What is it that I want to protect?
	If I don't have one, but if I were to have a mistress, then I would say I want to maintain a certain level of secrecy.
	Are you married?
	Oh, 31 years.
	Matter of fact, today is our anniversary.
	Today is your 31st.
	Happy anniversary, Jamie.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		this would be a very poor day for you to say on the radio actually i've got a mistress but so it would really really If you really did have a mistress, would you be likely today to admit it?
		Oh, probably not.
		Probably not.
		And I certainly wouldn't.
		With some of my friends anyway.
		You know that my wife is a nurse and she works with sharp objects.
		I see why I know.
		She knows all about John Wayne Bobbitt and stuff.
		wanted to be clear on that and I'm clear now so the deal is that if She may not.
		As a matter of fact, that's why she's sleeping upstairs now.
		These shows are archived.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The deal is that if you know what it is that you need to protect, whether it's your secret patent application elements, whether it's your mistress, whether it's your bank account, whether it's the dope that you're selling to the guy down the street, whatever it is, and you know that that's got certain nuggets to it, then you just don't place those nuggets out there where people can find them.
		You don't put them in the newspaper.
		You don't talk about them over the phone, and etc.
		The second part of it is knowing who can get that from you, who has an interest in getting that from you.
		Okay, may I ask you a question?
		Sure.
		I know that a bunch of the high-profile drug dealers in South America that were caught were caught with the help of Echelon.
		Yep, you're right.
		And now, they've had some pretty big busts here in this country, too.
		Yes.
		Is it not reasonable to conclude that a lot of those have been with the help of the British version of Echelon?
		That would be a reasonable conclusion, I would think.
		Okey-dokie.
		What I would suggest even further is that from time to time, when you hear an explanation for how a terrorist activity was prevented, or a law enforcement breakthrough occurred.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'll give you all this, that all of this is happening and that it is to our benefit as society.
		And the important part is that maybe half of the time you're only given part of the story as to how they uncovered it.
		Oh, I firmly believe that.
		And most successes of Echelon or programs like it are the ones that you never, ever know about.
		You're never going to hear about them.
		And that's absolutely true.
		The good things they did.
		And that's absolutely true.
		You know, there's another element, and it's who is going to use what it is that they've gotten from you.
		Now, we've so far talked about echelon and American...
		That is the UK, the United States, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.
		Those are the five countries involved in the Echelon project, right?
		That share.
		Yeah.
		You must also understand that there is a French alon as well.
		That is a joint venture between the Germans and the French.
		Well, now there's a surprise.
		Usually the French don't want a damn thing to do with anybody else.
		They do it themselves.
		Well, that's, well, you know, back in the days of the Cold War, the East Germans had a terribly difficult time with their signals intercept sites being able to pick up American military American, German, and British military and aerospace defense industry information from Bavaria and southern Germany and Bavaria.
		And so what they did was because they couldn't get enough coverage there, they relied upon their ability to penetrate the French who were monitoring the Brits, the Americans, and the Germans.
		And then when the French were downloading their stuff and sending it back to Paris from BCT and Mont Volérian, their primary listening stations, that's when the East Germans put the grabs on the information that the French had already collected against the Americans, the Brits, and the Germans.
		Oh, yeah.
		See, I imagine all that, and I imagine very high deals made and swaps of information made.
		And my imagination just virtually runs away with me, John, and I don't think I'm wrong.
		No, let's go to another piece of it, though, that may be a little bit more close to home that you may even find of some interest.
		And it may have been what Rod was talking about.
		As you know, my company, the whole reason for my book and the whole reason for me being on with you tonight is that I'm a former intelligence officer and that now we do business intelligence work.
		Companies hire us to find out what their competitors are doing and to help protect them from their competitors.
		And we don't operate just in the United States.
		We operate outside the country as well.
		No kidding.
		In the private sector, you operate outside as well.
		Oh, absolutely.
		Today we undertook two new projects in Eastern Europe.
		One in the Czech Republic and one in the Slovak Republic.
		Not unusual.
		And who are we using?
		We're using people who are our former intelligence adversaries.
		Okay?
		Really?
		Oh, absolutely.
		We have a group of folks that have offices in Kiev and Moscow who are former KGB and GRU guys.
		And we meet them now.
		We've got a kind of...
		Virtually, truly falling apart.
		Basket case, Tom.
		You got it, right?
		And so you're saying you've hired former KGB agents.
unidentified		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they need the bucks, that's for sure.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're in business just like we're in business.
		And they have access to information of competitive value relating to businesses in the former Soviet states.
		And when we have clients who are interested in doing business in those areas, they come to us and say, do you have people whom you can access there?
		And the answer is yes.
		We've built up a network around the world of former intelligence officers from a variety of friendly and not so former friendly countries.
		And when we're getting information on behalf of our clients, we're using a wide range of people like that.
		So this group of former KGB GRU guys made me an interesting offer not too long ago.
		Probably 10 months ago.
		We haven't taken them up on it.
		We haven't had occasion to do it yet.
		What kind of offer?
		Well, let me tell you what this offer was.
		Are you familiar with Lourdes?
		Do you know what Lourdes is?
		Lourdes is a listening station that the Russians, or that the Soviets, built back in the days of the Cold War and put on the island of Cuba to listen to, to intercept, U.S. military and political telephone conversations up and down from the Gulf Coast up to Maine.
		Look, never for one second did I doubt that that was there.
		Sure.
		Now, in the high point of the Cold War, there were about 1,200 people there, Russians, mostly English speakers, and some Spanish speakers, who would be intercepting voice communications along the eastern seaboard and up the Gulf Coast, up the Mississippi.
		Now, you know that in the early 90s their economy started to go toes up.
		Oh, yes, indeed.
		And as a result, they had to withdraw, not retrench and withdraw all of their forces from the group of Soviet forces in Eastern Europe and a massive amount of the aid that had been going to Cuba and other places got cut off.
		I know.
		And so you would think that those 1,200 people sitting there at Lourdes would have gone away, right?
		Well, or at least they certainly would have been downsized.
		The right version of downsize.
		And that's exactly what did happen.
		In the KGB and GRU presence in the United States, they went from about 250 officers in the United States down to like 70-something.
		Last fall, they were back up over 400 in the United States.
		This is case officers operating in the United States.
		Wow, yeah.
		There's a bunch of material on that.
		As a matter of fact, Mr. Gore talked to Kriuchkov about that, and Khrushchev told him, stick it in your ear.
		You know, Al said, hey, get these guys out of here.
		Why are you sending so many more spies to the United States?
		We're supposed to be friends.
		And he said, hey, we'll do what we want to do.
		But the interesting thing is...
		Oh, no, that's no different than the French.
		But the interesting part is that at Lord's now, there are 2,300 people.
		And what are they collecting?
		I don't know.
		They're collecting economic and personal information now.
		But the funny part is available for sale.
		It's available for sale.
		It's available for sale.
		Great.
		Now, that's just really spiffy.
		So then are you telling me that an American citizen, if he knew the right route to go and had the money, could purchase information about a corporation's activities in America?
		Yes, holy crap.
		But he could buy it from the Russians who have got everything for sale.
		So that's the scary thing as far as I'm concerned.
		Not whether the American government is- I agree.
unidentified		Holy good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's uh, I mean, that's that's what these fellows have advised me is available.
		And I have no reason to disbelieve them because they provided us all manner of stuff either.
		Hold on, John.
		That's a real, oh my God, item.
		So if you want to buy information on your corporate enemy and you have enough money in the right path, the spooks listen and tell you.
unidentified		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 8, 2000.
		Time in a spin.
		I gave you love.
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		I gave you all I have to give.
		Why didn't it have to stop?
		You've blown it all sky by telling me a lie without a reason why.
		You've blown it all sky.
		you're rolling all the skies Only in America can a guide from anywhere to go to sleep of horror and wake up a million.
		Only in America.
		And a kid without a set.
		Get a break and maybe grow up to be present.
		Only in America.
		A fancy girl like you falls for a poor boy like me.
		You'll distinguish Archfell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a spook on tonight.
		His name is John Nolan.
		I say that with affection.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Lovely nights.
		Where would I be without my wife?
		Lovely days.
		Lovely nights.
		Where would I be without my one more?
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now I want you all to understand that actually I understand intellectually the need for the kind of security that we're talking about tonight.
		Drastic as it may be, I actually do understand the need for it.
		The others are doing it.
		We've got to do it for our own national protection.
		I mean, that's something we have to do.
		But we also, at least, apparently, have enough freedom to be able to talk about what's really going on and tell you what the other side of the matrix looks like.
		You know, the one you're living in.
unidentified		and this is what it looks like
		we'll be right back with john noah Don't pour your love out on me, baby.
		If you do the thing to maybe lay me down, but I won't forget.
		Don't pour your love out on me, honey.
		Take my heart, my soul, my money.
		But don't leave me drowning in my tears.
		You say you're gonna leave.
		Gonna take that big white bird.
		Gonna fly right out of here without a single word.
		But you know you'll break my heart.
		Well, I won't you go back.
		Cause I know I won't see you anymore.
		Don't worry about me, baby.
		If you do, then I'll leave it, baby.
		I just believe it.
		Remier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my guest is John Nolan.
		We'll tell you about his book in a moment because he's been very kind and hadn't plugged anything, so we'll have to do that.
		He does have a book, and he's being pretty straight with us all, I think.
		Which is interesting.
		And I mean, you know, to some degree, obviously, whenever you're talking to somebody like this, you have to, you know, listen a little bit between the lines.
		But to his credit, thus far, not that far between the lines.
		and every laugh tells you something.
unidentified		2000 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Music Alright, we're about to go to the phones, and this ought to be really, really interesting.
		John Nolan, however, has a book out.
		Or is it two books now?
		I don't know.
		It's just the one right now.
		one right now and that book is And what is it?
		And it's uncovering your competitors' top business secrets and protecting your own.
		And protecting your own.
		Protecting your own.
		Which is what I was alluding to earlier, that companies have to take certain measures to protect themselves, and so do individuals.
		And individuals can follow the same format that's laid out in that whole third of the book on protecting themselves, developing the appropriate countermeasures to whatever it is that you see the people who are working against you are using.
		Say, for example, you've got people going through your trash can looking for your credit card bills.
		Then obviously what you do is you start either burning them or shredding them.
		You don't put the things out in your trash can.
		I've always done that.
		Well, not everybody does, you know.
		And I mean, I'm not here hawking shredders at your local office depot or anything like that.
		Yeah, that's a good idea.
		We could sell a shredder, and if I had a shredder to offer tonight, I bet I'd sell a zillion of them.
		Well, make sure that you get a cross-cut shredder, not one of those script shredders, because cross-cut shredders are infinitely better.
		Cross-cut.
		So you've got to have a cross-cut.
		In other words, it not only makes the thin little lines, but then cuts across them.
		Right, and it'll cut it into things that are about an eighth inch square, as opposed to rendering it to the point where even the best puzzle person in the entire world would throw up their hands and say, get me out of here.
		One would hope.
		Well, one would hope that if he's serious about it, he doesn't throw his hands up because then another 10 million pieces of confetti will fly all over.
		So that is effective, though.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		And, you know, it's really surprising.
		People think that, you know, well, I'll just tear this in quarters.
		You know, when we're doing penetration projects, when companies hire us to find out what their vulnerabilities are, and we'll do some waste archaeology, that is the thing that I've done.
		There, I fail.
		I tear it in as many pieces as I can with my hand, and that's it.
		Well, you know, most people, when they go to tear something up that's got some importance, they tear it into quarters and then throw it into the trash can.
		What does that do?
		That sets off a signal for our guys.
		Oh, good.
		They thought this was sensitive enough that they would tear it in quarters.
		And so, I mean, it takes hours and hours and hours, of course, to try and figure out how those four pieces of paper go back together again.
		Yeah, but if a credit card company got some application that was all messed up, crumpled up, and obviously scotch-taped together.
		Sure.
		Wouldn't they?
		Well, they wouldn't do that.
		You see, what they would do is they would put that all together.
		Okay.
		you take the four pieces or however many and then you put them all together and you see what the draft of the application looks like and then you just fill it out in your own hand and then that way when the signature goes in for the credit card people then and with the phony address to which you're having the then it's your signature Oh, God.
		I mean, that's the whole nature of that beast.
		I'm not trying to tell people how to be crooks, because crooks already know.
		It's interesting you brought up the word beast.
		Well, yeah.
		666 on your forehead.
		And a lot of people think that these things that we're talking about right now don't happen.
		No.
		No, they don't think that.
		They think these...
		Right.
		A lot of other people, though, think that this is, in fact, the sign of the beast.
		Would you disabuse them of that thinking?
		Well, I guess that now you're getting into my theology a little bit.
		A little.
		I mean, would you disabuse that notion?
		No, I would not.
		You wouldn't?
		No, I would not simply because I try and look at the history of our civilization, and I look at people doing things now that 10 years ago, 15 years, 30 years ago, 50 years, 100 years ago, they would never have thought about doing to their fellow man.
	And there has to be some influence.
	I mean, I really believe in the balance between good and evil.
	And I mean, you know, I spent 20-plus years in the intelligence community, looking after things that I thought had relationship to the forces of good versus the forces of evil.
	And I firmly and fully believe that somebody is an influencing agent, either for good or for bad.
	And in our situation these days, we've got an awful lot of evil about in the world.
	Yes, but is there any place in the world to equal the intelligence agency with regard to its view of good and bad?
	And any place where it is more mixed, where it is harder to delineate between good and bad than in the kind of work you do?
	Well, you know, that's really a tough and a very good question, Art.
	People who do intelligence work are expected on one hand to do some of the most difficult and, I won't be dramatic by saying most dangerous stuff, but challenging, intellectually challenging, and many times physically challenging, spiritually challenging as well in many respects.
	And sometimes often very important things.
	And in so doing, you make a value judgment as to whether this is more important than that.
	And as a result, you say, some eggs may have to get broken in order to make this omelette.
	Some people need to die as a result of, in order to be able to achieve this objective.
	So you were an egg breaker.
	Yeah.
	Omelette maker.
	Omelette maker.
	And so you have to make those kinds of choices at certain points, right?
	Well, and this is the interesting paradox of the intelligence community, is while you get people who will be willing to do those things that are necessary to be done, and sometimes many times, you're asking them to break international laws, because as you are well aware, espionage is one of the few international crimes.
	So you're asking them on behalf of the nation to become a felon, an international felon, whether apprehended or not.
	And yet you hold them to a standard that's almost like a Caesar's wife's standard.
	You've got to be pure as the driven snow when dealing with your national command authorities, your elected leadership, as well as the people who are appointed over you.
	Well, let's see how that translates.
	Hypothetical situation.
	You are in one of the alphabet agencies.
	Yeah.
	Who cares?
	NSA, CIA, whatever.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah, mothers against cracked age.
	Yeah, whatever.
	And so you get this assignment that has you, in essence, listening to a person you know to be a political opponent of the administration now in office, right?
	Do you follow your orders?
	The truth.
	Would I?
	no do you think that most uh...
	All right.
	And I'll pull you away from this.
	What percentage of those serving our government in such a capacity, in your view, would refuse those orders?
	98, 99.
	Really?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, think about it.
	I'm not.
	On my level, I would say, on a personal gut level, I'm not going to jail for some SOB's political machinations.
	That's on the one hand, right?
	That's on one level.
	On the other hand, you're holding your career in your hands.
unidentified		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's the whole mission.
		Remember I was talking about the level of morale in the intelligence community these days?
		Right.
		It makes me crazy to think that when I give a lecture at one of the letter agencies and people come up to me when we take a break after, say I'm going to give a three-hour lecture.
		And at the midpoint, we're taking a break and a quarter to a half of the group come up to me and hand me resumes.
		I mean, these are mid-course, mid-career intelligence officers who come up and hand me resumes that they're carrying around in their briefcases.
		Now, I will tell you, Art, when I was getting ready to leave the government, it was over 20 years before I even thought about writing a resume.
		And yet here are people who are so uncertain of their careers, so uncertain of their ability to remain, that they're not waiting for the axe to drop on them anymore.
		They're not looking to be able to fulfill a career.
		Now, are there careerists who will do anything in order to enhance their career?
		What they are ordered to do.
		Or what they're ordered to do.
		They will either undertake orders, they will undertake to fulfill illegal orders.
		There will always be those people, and it will be a very, very small minority, whether they're in the military or whether they're in the intelligence community or wherever they are in government or in business.
		There are people who will always do whatever it is that the boss wants them to do in the interest of career enhancement.
		that's going to be given across every aspect of human endeavor Sure.
		Sure.
		On one level, the whole book was written for the purpose of leveling the playing field.
		And the origins of it were in protection.
		That is, helping people understand how others get information from you, the techniques used by intelligence people.
		Many of the people who bought the book as a result of the last time that we talked, and I thank you very much for your having mentioned it previously as well.
		Many of the people who have done that have written to me and said, hey, I'm a nurse.
		I bought this book, and I used it to deal better with my patients.
		Some guys, PIs, have written and said, this opens a whole new realm for me of gathering information instead of having to interview or interrogate people for it.
		At the same time, when you understand how people get information from you, then you can take certain protective measures.
		Once you appreciate how somebody is going to approach you, then you can be much more on guard.
		And that's whether you're afraid of a government guy coming to you or a private guy or a scam artist of some sort.
		Because these kinds of techniques are not peculiar only to the intelligence community.
		But do you realize what you've told the American people this morning?
		That really they're living in this matrix where they think they're really free, where they think they're really they have real privacy, where the old-fashioned view of America, if anybody has listened to you tonight, and even slightly listened between the lines, all of that is shattered.
		That's a bunch of BS.
		There's no such thing.
		That's a big thing to tell the American people, and it really is.
		Well, you know, it's really a true statement.
		I understand that.
		I just say it's really something to lay on.
		Let's take a few calls.
		I'm East of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with John A. Nolan.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, I lived in Canada for two years.
		I still think we've got more freedom here than in Canada.
		Last time I tried to enter Canada, they took my word processor and all my discs and kept them for two months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, because I have some controversial opinions and controversial connections, and they wanted to get all my names and addresses off of my discs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Yeah.
		You got stopped by customs officials on the Canadian side of the border?
unidentified		Yes, I was entering Canada at Fort Erie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they took my word processor and my discs and kept them and denied me entry to the country.
unidentified		And they kept them for two months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really, really, really interesting because we were talking about the difference between Britain and the U.S. And John, let's address Canada for a second.
		How does Canada stack up in the scale between, say, Britain and the U.S.?
		Is Canada closer to Britain in terms of what it can do and will do for national security?
		Well, certainly, and you've got to understand that virtually all of the Canadian laws derive from their relationship as part of Great Britain.
		The whole nature of their economic structure and the whole nature of their political structure and their legal structure are mirrors of the ways that the Brits operate things.
		Even to the level of taxation, to the great dismay of many of my Canadian friends who hate...
		In England, if they want to stop a story, that damn story dies.
		It never gets on the air.
		If they stop it, they have the power to stop it.
		How about in Canada?
		I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that it's very close.
		Although the Canadians are in many respects a little bit more iconoclastic than the average Brit.
		That's just my experience, a little bit more cowboy-ish, a little bit more like Americans than they are Brits.
		But still, the fundamental aspects of their laws relate to the British model as opposed to the American model.
		Yeah, that's exactly what I thought.
		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John A. Nolan.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
		Dago Dave here in Phoenix.
		Yes.
		I want to preface my statement with a Dago Daveism for you.
		How free is a society if the government is afraid of its own people?
		Now, I want to go back to your question about trading, well, privacy, I guess, for security.
		You know, do we need to feel so safe that we should let these intelligence agencies invade our private communications all for the sake of, quote-unquote, security?
		Quite frankly, you know, I own a couple guns.
		I'm quite capable of taking care of myself.
		Thank you very much.
		I don't need the government invading my privacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Crazy, that sentence that you just said is probably enough to get this telephone conversation monitored.
unidentified		About owning firearms?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and then the rest of it.
unidentified		Yeah, no doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sort of an anti-government statement.
		Guns, anti-government.
		Guarantee somebody's going to listen to that conversation.
unidentified		But it's not anti-government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't say it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I said that it could be heard that way and kicked out like a bad dream to be listened to by some poor operator somewhere.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, John?
		I would suggest that there's a possibility of that.
		There's always a possibility that some guy sitting at a console is going to see that pop up.
		But in point of fact, the issue is that it's not for the purpose of identifying whether they are statements that support your constitutional right to bear arms, your appropriate personal right to bear arms, whether constitutionally guaranteed or not.
		but the simple fact of the matter is that yours that you're not saying anything that is inflammatory or or that is uh...
		what may be slightly inflammatory to some people's ears it is nonetheless of a legal expression if you however were to be saying You know what would be John.
		I'm going to tell you straight out.
		I had to just censor that.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had to censor that.
		I'm going to tell you why, John.
		If I'd let that statement, even the way you just said it, go out on the air, they'd be knocking on my door, and they've done it plenty of times in the past.
		The Secret Service would be here before you could say, how come you didn't hit the button on that one?
		No, I'm serious about that.
		Okay.
		Well, I was giving you as an example.
		Yeah, Paula, your broader question about security for safety.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, you know, it takes me back to my original statement.
		You know, how free is a society if the government is afraid of its own people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How free is the society if the government is afraid of its own people?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an excellent question, and you see that in all of the totalitarian countries.
		Well, can you give an excellent answer to it?
		I'm sorry.
		I might have missed your excellent answer.
		What was that?
		Not very.
		Not very excellent?
		No, no.
		Not very free as a society when the government is that unsure of itself that it has to take totalitarian steps in order to protect itself.
		All right, gentlemen.
		Hold on.
		We will be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 8, 2000.
		The world and the seven seas, everybody's looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		Coast.
		Sweet beams are made of these.
		Who am I to disagree?
		Who am I to disagree?
		Thank you.
		In the night, my body's weak.
		I'm on the run, no time to sleep.
		I've got to ride, ride like a wind to be free again.
		And I've got a long way to go to make it to the wall.
		Make it go alright like the wind.
		I'm a bonus of a long fan of a fucking man with a gun in my hand.
		Live my life like I did, ride like the wind.
		And I've got such a long way to go, taking to the water to Mexico, I know I'm riding like the wind, I like to wind.
		You're listening to Arch Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put another way, you can't ride fast enough to really get freedom.
unidentified		Not real freedom.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of March 8, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End All right, once again, John Nolan hanging in there with us.
		Thank you, John.
		Your book's name again, please?
		Confidential.
		Confidential.
		Now, Confidential, I take it, is available in bookstores?
		Yes, indeed.
		It's also available through your website, right?
		Through that Amazon.com link, I think.
		What is the regular on-the-shelf price for your book?
		$26, I think.
		Yeah, and when you go to Amazon.com, how much is it?
		Actually, right at Christmas time, they raised it up to $26.
		I guess they figured that they could make more money by not reducing the price.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		That made me a little bit crazy.
		It had been like an $18.
		Yeah, they're supposed to give me like a 30% discount.
		Yeah, and then they I have no idea.
		They raised it, apparently.
		Ho, ho, ho.
		They thought they'd make more bucks off it.
		And now?
		Frankly, I haven't looked at them.
		You haven't looked?
unidentified		No, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really haven't.
		I guess that's a failure on my part.
		I'm going to look for you.
		I'm going to have to go flog myself.
		I'm going to look for you here in a minute.
		I'm going to log on to my own website if I can and go down and go over to Amazon.com and see how much they want for your book now.
		Maybe because you haven't done a show in a while, they have taken it back to its original price.
		Let's find out.
		I think when it first came out, it was 1870.
		And then somebody told me just before Christmas that they'd put it up to 26.
		And they said that their explanation for it, it was one of the book people, said that they have a...
		All right, I'm there.
		I see your book, Confidential.
		Here it is.
		John Nolan, Lisp Price, $26.
		Our price, $24.70.
		You save $1.30.
		What has happened to Amazon?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen this before.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		Yeah, it started out at like 1870, then apparently it's...
		My goodness.
		You must be a really special case, John.
		I don't know what the story is.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should pay more attention to that kind of stuff.
		Yeah, you really should.
		I'm on the production side, not on the other side.
		First time calling line, you're on the air with John Nolan.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, it's JD in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		I was wondering, speaking of the governments and what they can do and what they can hide, if you heard about Egypt tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Egypt tonight?
unidentified		They found those hundred mummies intact.
unidentified		But they've had, I guess they found them three years ago, and Egypt's been keeping them a secret for the past three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew about them, sir.
unidentified		Oh, you did?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, I see how you are.
		That's pretty good.
		I guess they're going to tour 10 of them.
		They're just in perfect condition.
		And I saw your friend, the guy that you said is pretty much the head of Egypt when you got to go in the sarcophagus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, no, I said he was the head of Giza, the plateau area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's in charge of the plateau area.
unidentified		Yeah, I can't remember his name, but it rang a bell when I saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His name is Dr. Zahi Awas.
unidentified		Yep, that's it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, all right.
unidentified		Well, since you already knew, I thought it was interesting they hid it for three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should have seen when I was in Egypt and Zahi was taking me around, when I tell you that he is like more like the dictator of Giza, I'm telling you the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when he said something, man, people hopped.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if there was a secret area and he wanted you to see it, you were there like that.
unidentified		Shazam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yeah, Shazam is right.
unidentified		So the phone call thing is making me a little worried.
		Yeah.
		Keywords you're saying are something that they could just tap right into on any phone call, huh?
		Yeah.
		Because I live in California, and I unfortunately...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not getting the point here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't matter where you live, doesn't matter where you are in the world, and it doesn't matter what medium you're using, you're not safe.
unidentified		They can just tap on in whenever they want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's not a matter of tapping in.
		It's a matter of gathering it out of the ether.
		Always listening would be closer.
unidentified		That's great.
unidentified		Make me more paranoid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it doesn't mean, even though you're paranoid, it doesn't mean you don't have enemies.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
		That's a good one.
		I think I'll write that down.
		I have a few friends, and I would like to tell that too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even paranoids are occasionally captured, tortured, and murdered.
unidentified		Good.
		I got something to look forward to.
		Hey, it's a great show tonight, Art.
		Always listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John A. Nolan.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, John.
unidentified		This is John in Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I want to echo the sentiments of the caller before the top of the hour.
		You know, I'm not anti-government.
		I'm a pro-constitutional republic form of government.
		Not the imperial federal government that we have right now.
		I'm sure I'll get in trouble for that.
		But call me old-fashioned or naive, but I agree with what Ben Franklin said when he said those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security.
		Exactly.
		But I guess we deserve it because we've allowed our government to meddle in everyone's affairs and entangle ourselves in alliances and treaties and world organizations.
		And in my opinion, most of this activity has done nothing but increase our risk.
		Is it negative to be an isolationist, to stay out of world affairs and shun alliances and foreign aid?
		Thomas Jefferson said peace, commerce, anonymous friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
		And George Washington warned us of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even as recently as Eisenhower, beware of, do you remember what to beware of?
		The military industrial complex.
		The military.
		Right, there you go.
unidentified		The military industrial complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$2,000 and you haven't used any lifelines.
		The military-industrial complex.
		So, yeah, many presidents have had severe warnings for us about what they had is, you know, really they had everything, right?
		So what's going on?
		What they are administering, it scares them or they wouldn't have said these things.
unidentified		Art, get this figure.
		We've spent $6 trillion on our military since World War II.
		Adjusted for inflation, that's $14 trillion.
		That's $50,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country right now.
		And we do not have a defense against some two-bit dictator that gets his hands on some nuclear weapon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, just a moment there.
		There's where I'll stop you and I'll ask John.
		See, the thing is, actually, we do have a defense against that.
		We have this intelligence community that, on the one hand, seems so intrusive, so anti-constitutional, so un-American in every way you can think of.
		But on the other hand, they are defending us against exactly that kind of thing.
		Right, John?
		That's the objective.
		Absolutely.
		The issue is that there are many dollars being spent right now on national and theater missile defense things that are designed to identify launch vehicles and to knock them out of the air.
		This administration has not been particularly enthusiastic about that.
		That's exactly right.
		And one of them knocked down the missile.
		They did exactly right.
		and that's uh...
		fad the theater high altitude anti-defender defense system and it's a it's a uh...
		because it's essentially trying to hit a bullet with a bullet.
		It's more like the shotgun approach.
		Yeah, to a certain extent.
		In other words, they have many objects traveling at many thousands of miles per hour that are suddenly hurled at this incoming missile that spread out like a shotgun blast would spread out.
		Yes.
		I likened it the other day to a million little ginzu knives.
		Indeed.
		But the other side of it is that while you've got an understanding of something that launches, I mean, that's really the last time.
		That's the last line of defense.
		The very first line of defense is the intelligence community's ability to penetrate somebody else's delivery system, their development system and delivery system, in order to be able to identify it early on.
		You remember back in the 70s when the Iraqi capital Baghdad was bombed by the Israelis?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why did the Israelis bomb Iraq?
		Are you referring now to the nuclear facility that they're, yes, exactly.
		They knew that the Iraqis were pretty close to the development of a nuclear weapon that would place the state of Israel at risk.
		And so, I mean, that did not happen to be something they got out of the newspaper, and it certainly wasn't anything that they said, well, we'll just wait until they launch one, and then we'll try and catch it or knock it down.
		They said, we'll cut off the head of the beast now.
		And that's what they went after.
		That's what you generally have to have, an intelligence system that tells you that such an event is likely to occur in order to meet the definition of the intelligence product.
unidentified		We've done some stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've provided the decision-maker timely and actionable information.
		Yeah, we've done some stuff like that ourselves.
		Yeah, we have.
		I do believe there was an action or two at Osama bin Laden, whether it was proper or just a baby milk factory.
		I don't know, but we did.
		Yeah, as a matter of fact, I joke with some people every once in a while that it must have been really a tough job to get those 47 tons of chemically treated sand in there before the inspectors came in around the baby factory.
		The baby food factory.
		My friend, I know.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with John Noel and I. Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're going to have to yell at us.
		I can barely hear you.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, talk like a Texan.
unidentified		Well, I'm not from Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, then try to talk like a Texan.
unidentified		All right.
		Yeah, I had a question for your guest.
		All this monitoring of phones, email, it really reminds me of a book written in 48.
		I'm sure you're familiar with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By George Orwell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1984.
unidentified		Yes.
		You know, this really is not a good thing.
		You know, maybe it does some good with terrorists and things like that, but where does it stop?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably at your doorstep.
		I mean, that's what you've got to come to terms with here, I guess.
		Stops at your doorstep and down your chimney and through your walls.
		Well, I guess one way you can look at it is you can be happy that it's 16 years late.
unidentified		Oh, well, that's too straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, in actuality, what we're talking about, the 1984 in its most fantastic level, was that it really was intrusive.
		It was in every room of every house, and it was in every situation.
		And Big Brother really did control and even influenced your thoughts.
		Obviously, we don't have an administration these days that's trying to influence the thoughts of people.
		1984 actually was a pretty good date, wasn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, we were doing this kind of stuff in 1984.
		Yes, we were indeed.
		Well, there you are, Caller.
unidentified		Yeah, it's just, you know, it just does not seem like a good thing.
unidentified		And, you know, they can't control the thoughts, and they're not in every room of your house yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're trying a pretty good thing at politically correct.
		I mean, there are a bunch of thoughts that you can't make expressed.
		Well, yeah, that is true.
		I'm not necessarily a fan of John Rockers one way or the other.
		But he doesn't seem to have any ability to think his thoughts about the population of New York City and be a guy who's able to open his mouth because it's not politically appropriate.
		And that's not pretty close to, I mean, getting massive numbers of people.
		Wait a minute.
		Hold it.
		That's a thought control process.
		Yeah, but okay, yeah, sure.
		But, you know, when you consider the rocker thing.
		Yeah.
		The retaliation was also political.
		In other words, he wasn't charged with any criminal thing.
		Absolutely not.
		Right?
		The retaliation was in the same arena in which it was issued.
		What he said was horrible.
		Right.
		And so they just came back at him in the same arena.
		It's not like they called the DA and said this is somewhere else.
unidentified		Absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely right.
		What I'm suggesting to you, however, is that if it's going to be a thought control thing, as your caller from Texas is talking about, then we're almost partly there, if you really step back and think about it, from what is politically correct, the kinds of things that you are allowed to say publicly now.
		And that's not whether you're going to get in trouble with the law.
		If you say the wrong thing at work these days, you have any number of potential civil actions that can be brought to you.
		Not to mention goodbye job.
		Not to mention goodbye job.
		And if that's not thought control at a certain level, I don't know what is.
		Okay, caller.
		Do you feel better?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Of course not.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with John A. Nolan.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah.
		Excuse me.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi.
		Okay.
		There's a show that was on about a month ago on the History Channel about the eyes for this guy looking down on us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I don't know if you saw that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't need to have seen it.
		Call it to it.
		No, I don't.
unidentified		I know what's up.
unidentified		I know what you guys are talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know what's up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your question?
unidentified		Well, my question is, well, I see it's a situation that was recently being watched by some helicopters flying around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were what?
unidentified		Being watched.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By helicopters.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why do you think helicopters were watching you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just sort of playing along with you for a moment.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I just said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what do you think they were watching you i don't know if they ever thought You must know.
unidentified		I don't know.
		Probably this is to you, I guess.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blame it on me.
		You know that's not true.
		You know that if there's really helicopters, if they were devoting those kind of resources to really watching you, then you're a bad dude.
		Or you're a hated dude.
		Or something really awful.
		I mean, they wouldn't devote those kind of resources to you.
unidentified		Well, in actuality, I'm a disabled person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you're even more dangerous then.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, see, John, I kind of don't buy that.
		In other words, yeah, I can imagine that helicopters, stealth helicopters in a cause of national security might be called upon to go listen to somebody or something or whatever.
		Whatever they can do.
		Spy satellites, used whatever, all the assets they've got, but not for some disabled guy who hasn't said anything particularly wrong.
		What do you think?
		Well, my observation is that it would probably not be your caller, but maybe his next-door neighbor who's an arch criminal.
		Well, that's a very good point.
		How would he know whether they were actually after him or a neighbor?
		Exactly.
		Secondly, you know, there are lots of things.
		I mean, I live in Huntsville, Alabama, and we have down in the southern part of the state, Fort Rucker, where they train helicopter pilots.
		And then up north of us at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, is 101st Air Mobile, where they live in helicopters as well.
		And very often you see flights of helicopters moving about, and you wonder Whether or not it's just a troop movement or an exercise or something like that.
		But you don't think necessarily of them flying over your house in a hovering pattern.
		Would it be possible for a hovering helicopter to issue a laser that would hit your window and allow them to hear everything being said in your room, just hypothetically?
		Would that be possible?
		Yeah, because it's already established as a technology.
		Whether they use them out of helicopters, there's a lot of shimmy and shake in a helicopter that might make it a little bit problematic.
		But they probably got that figured out, though.
		The technology is there to do that, if somebody needed to do it.
		Only if somebody needed to do it, of course, yes.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8, 2000.
		We've been traveling far Without our home, but not without us a star Only one will be free, with heart and close
		Hang on to a dream Lonely days, lonely nights Where would I be without my warm mind?
		Lonely days, lonely nights Where would I be without my warm mind?
		Lonely days Lonely days, where would I be without my warm mind?
		Lonely days, lonely nights You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 8th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I want you all to understand that actually, I understand, intellectually, the need for the kind of security that we're talking about tonight.
		Drastic as it may be, I actually do understand the need for it.
		The others are doing it.
		We've got to do it for our own national protection.
		I mean, that's something we have to do.
		But we also, at least, apparently, have enough freedom to be able to talk about what's really going on and tell you what the other side of the Matrix looks like.
		You know, the one you're living in.
		this is what it looks like.
		We'll be right back with John Nolan.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
unidentified		2000 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End Just bear in mind, as you're listening to what many perceive as terrible horrors that we're talking about right now, that in Britain, for doing this program right now, well, I would never have gotten this far.
		I would have been arrested, well, I don't know, two and a half hours ago.
		And my guest, John Nolan, would have been arrested two and a half hours ago.
		You cannot talk about something like this there.
		So there is a difference.
		Maybe after all is said and done, not a really gigantic difference.
		When you get down to the minutiae of capability, it is not a lot of difference, really.
		But that is a difference that remains for the moment.
		Welcome back, John.
		thank you uh...
		anything anything water While we're justifiably concerned about the ability of the echelon system to gather up all manner of conversations and etc.
		from the ether, the flip side of it is that as technology advances, fiber optics are not susceptible to intercept from such systems.
		I know they're really worried about that, and they're working on a solution.
		Yeah, and they're working on a solution.
		That's the issue.
		They don't have a solution set to that right now.
		But they will.
		That cuts down a lot of the...
		They will.
		That's exactly right.
		All of these sophisticated scrambling systems have been broken.
		That's another piece of it, is which encryption techniques are being used, and to what extent is it worth checking.
		Take an early version.
		How do you pick out the nuggets?
		I'll tell you.
		One way.
		Let's set something up here.
		Let's say you want to email a friend and you want it to be secure.
		The urban legend is that if you use one of the early versions of PGB, pretty good privacy.
		Pretty good privacy, right?
		That nobody is going to be able to read what you have sent.
		But the probable truth of the matter is that that's bull poop.
		And that if our agencies had the ability to decrypt PGP, we wouldn't know about it.
		They obviously wouldn't tell us.
		True.
		Because now we can sit here thinking that in safety we are encrypting what we're sending.
		Nobody can read it.
		I don't believe that for a second, John.
		Well, you know, I agree with you.
		You do?
		Yes, because there isn't an encryption protocol that is not susceptible to being decrypted, except for what, of course, are known throughout the trade as one-time pads.
		And one-time pads means that the sender and the receiver are the only ones who know it, and they're completely random.
unidentified		But anything with a key, even a changing key.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Even with a changing key, you have the opportunity to break it.
		And so what it means is you have to have a terrifically powerful computer to be able to break something.
		And then you have to say to yourself, well, who is it who's sending it and what is it that they're sending?
		And how much interest is there for us to do that?
		If we know that this is a terrorist group, well, then we're going to do everything that we can to decrypt that.
		If it is Art Bell and John Nolan sending traffic back and forth, and we're sending dirty jokes back and forth, and we're encrypting those just because we like to giggle a lot, then they're not going to waste their resources.
		I mean, bear in mind a while ago they shut down the system because it went into overlay.
		Wait a minute here.
		If anything, you know, the keywords that we were talking about that will get a conversation tripped, kicked out, and listened to, then obviously the use of a cipher is going to raise your profile.
		In two seconds flat.
		Sure, it is.
		I mean, these are the realities that I don't think people really think all that much about.
		But if you're sending something out in a cipher, man, that's going to be kicked out right along with bomb and other words.
		Right.
		All right.
		First time calling the line, you're on the air with John Nolan.
unidentified		Yeah, Art, St. Louis calling Big 550.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		KTRS?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		A friend of mine told me when I was a kid, this was in the early 80s, he never mentioned the word echelon, but his dad worked at an annex of the Pentagon about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		And being kids and being big UFO boss and, you know, what was the secret about the government, we started messing with it.
		Oh.
		And I guess they determined, and it's not too hard to figure out what those words are.
		No, it isn't.
		No.
		And so we made hypothetical scenarios.
		We always covered ourselves that we wouldn't be in trouble about what we said, but what we said obviously triggered it and triggered it hard.
		And you could hear clicks and clicks and clicks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, you know what?
		Let me tell you something.
		What you're saying right now is an urban legend.
unidentified		Well, Art, let me tell you this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure you heard clicks, but know this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't need to do something as stupid as have a clicking sound to monitor your conversation, my friend.
unidentified		You would never, you'd never even hear a little stray static.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you wouldn't begin to know that you're being monitored.
unidentified		You may be right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am right.
unidentified		Okay, I agree.
		Maybe that's this case of today, but let me just finish it this out, Art.
		After about an hour, and I'm sure your man there can confirm this, if you mess with it and they determine that you're just somebody goofballing off, they sent a noise through the phone that literally rattled my brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Deaf in that ear for an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, a telephone, first of all, is not capable of issuing enough DB to destroy your hearing.
		That's all there is to it.
		A telephone has a constricted bandpass of audio that can come through it.
		And it could be real loud and real annoying, but it would not destroy your hearing.
		Right, John?
		To my understanding, and I'm not a technical guy, but that's roughly my understanding of it.
		Yeah.
		So, now, on the other hand, if you particularly went after them to annoy them and continually said things like you were going to bomb some building or you were going to whatever you were going to do, you know, something awful, you had just purchased a brand new shiny backpack nuke, you know, from the Russians or something.
		Now, that's going to get you a visit, probably.
		But, you know, this thing of clicks on the telephone, that's silly.
		You're never going to hear a click because you're being monitored.
		Would you agree, John?
		Well, your caller is talking about the early part of the 80s, and there were still some mechanisms that were not as discreet as they are today,
		still in use at that time, but mostly those were local law enforcement and people like that who were using relatively unsophisticated direct line and direct line taps.
		Yeah, let me put it to you this way.
		In the 80s, if I had wanted to tap somebody's line and with nary a click, nary a decrease in the apparent volume or any other giveaway, I could have done it.
		I could have done it.
		Oh, sure, sure.
		And so.
		And what I'm talking about are the guys who run down to their local SPY's R Us and buy something for $19.95.
		Oh, there you'll get clicks.
		And there you'll get all kinds of interference.
		You'll get all kinds of demodulation and you'll get all kinds of problems.
		Sure.
		And recognizable drifts in and out.
		Absolutely.
		But if the big guys are trying to listen to you.
		If it's the big guys, you're not going to know it.
		No, that's right.
		All right.
		You have Wildcard Line.
		You're on the air with John A. Nolan.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good evening, Art.
		It's William from Portland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, William.
unidentified		Great show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I have two questions, if I may, please.
unidentified		First, I was listening to the lady that was on from the NSA last week, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I linked to the site that she had, I believe it was in Finland, and there was a link concerning a patent for a holographic memory storage device that the NSA had patented.
		And I was wondering, I've heard a couple of times when the government has procured sensitive or high-tech devices and kept them for national security.
		Are these things also available to be used within the public as well, or are they kept just for the government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John?
		Actually, there are a number of different variations on the basic theme.
		The typical variation on the theme is that a place like Lawrence and Livermore National Laboratories scientists may develop a patentable process and then what they will do is license that process to various commercial entities who will then have the opportunity to use it either fully or in part.
		And even in some cases, they'll use, they'll be so concerned about the national security implications of it that they will license only portions of a patent to various competing companies, for example, in order that nobody is able to achieve the fullest technical capability.
		Does that make sense to you?
unidentified		Yes, it does.
unidentified		It sort of slows it out of the public's hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It keeps it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it gets out into the public's hands, but it doesn't have the same degree of, say, for example, lethality that it might otherwise have.
unidentified		I see.
		And my last question, please.
		I was wondering, considering that most of these agencies are under black budgets and Congress really doesn't know what they're up to, I mean, do they have oversight committees that really keep up to their day-to-day activities?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's phrase it another way.
		John, are you convinced the oversight committees know everything that's going on?
		No, I'm not convinced of that because of what we talked about earlier.
		Are there opportunities for people to be rogues about things?
		Are there opportunities for people in this current administration to be rogues about certain things?
		Yeah.
		Is there a way that somebody, I mean, think about this.
		We're talking about a community of people who live behind a veil in the first place.
		And the whole mental gymnastic activity is one of secrecy and being able to protect your secrets.
		So if you ever wanted to have a group of people who are capable of donut, it would certainly be the intelligence community.
		They've got some equally smart folks on the oversight committees.
		Some of the greatest challenges, I think, are between those two groups of folks.
		But you really don't want to screw the pooch by getting caught doing something like that.
		And I think that it's every bureaucrat's nightmare to be one of the intelligence bureaucrats who steps over the line, does the wrong thing, and has an oversight committee catch you in the act, because then you're like John Poindexter standing up there raising your hand in front of a congressional committee, which is not good for your morale.
		And so the Poindexter example is certainly not necessarily preventing all of that going on right now.
		Oh, no.
		No, absolutely not.
		I would be the first to suggest that when just about anything to include the towels in the Lincoln bedroom are for sale, courtesy of this administration, you can buy anything in this world from them.
		Well, so then the Poindexter example stands more as an example of why it's bad to be caught.
		Yeah, exactly.
		And so that's the major disincentive is the getting caught part.
		You and I talked about something on the air, off the air briefly before we went on, because I was talking about the weather.
		I mean, they're having, you know, like tornadoes in Wisconsin.
		We are having weather that is outrageously wrong.
		80s along the East Coast in winter.
		I mean, just a full-blown tornado season all winter long in the American South.
		It's been unblanking believable.
		And you had a comment or two about that.
		Yeah, and frankly, I only know on the periphery.
		I don't even know that I know.
		I know that I've been told by people who claim to have knowledge of some advanced climatological research and applications of some of the research done by various countries in order to wreak havoc with another country's crops, for example, in a particular year.
		Weather wars.
		Do you remember, I know you do because we talked about it, the Russians actually publicly offered to put out the terrible fires in Southeast Asia that were raging.
		Yes.
		By creating a cyclone.
		Yes.
		They claimed they could create a cyclone.
		They said they would do it once as a demonstration for free if that country wanted it.
		And then after that, they would charge for the service.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		So.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can they do it?
		Yeah, I think so.
		Is this part of a worldwide result of something that has gotten out of hand?
		Perhaps.
		Is it because somebody has mastered the technology?
		That is something well beyond my pay grade.
		I have no idea.
		But imaginable.
		But imaginable.
		Yes, absolutely.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John A. Nolan.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah.
		I'm calling from Indiana, and I just wondered whether John Nolan has heard of Richard Marcenko.
		I bet he has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the answer is yes.
unidentified		Has Richard Marcenko used any of your data for his counterterrorism missions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that Marcenko needs to take anything from me.
		He has a wellspring of certain experiences and a lot of imagination and quite a few contacts throughout the community who will continue to feed him things.
		He doesn't need to rely on anything from me.
unidentified		Okay, and I think Marcenko would make a fantastic guest for Art Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you, Ann.
		Take care.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with John A. Nolan.
		I. Hello.
unidentified		Say, confidentiality is a good subject.
unidentified		And it's exactly how psychology is starting to control our thoughts, is what I'm thinking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What confidentiality?
unidentified		All right, we're going to talk about the psychology of methodology suggesting psychology, which is all confidential.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know what you're talking about.
unidentified		You don't?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
unidentified		Well, you better start checking up on it because it's in your school system and your children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what exactly are you talking about?
unidentified		Well, it's the same type of psychology that Adolf Hitler used in his rise to power.
		The more and more you check it out, the more you'll find out about it.
		And it's a psychological warfare type of thing.
		And I do think that the CIA is partly behind it.
		And it's being used on children in schools.
		And that's another method that Hitler used to brainwash the children.
		and you have to remember that it was the nazis that was brought over here by the c_i_a_ and help them set up their organization and it's uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in other words you've got We brought scientists over here to help with our space program.
unidentified		Or as a scientist, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you believe that the Third Reich came along with them and all its tactics?
		You bet.
		See, I'm not, I guess I haven't entered that level of cynicism just quite yet.
		John?
		Well, actually, here in Huntsville, Alabama is where many of those people who came over under the paperclip operation, which is the one that this gentleman's referring to, at the close of the war, bringing over rocket specialists with Werner von Braun and a bunch of other people in Huntsville, Alabama is where I live.
		And they call it a rocket city because it's where they manage the space shuttle programs.
		Actually, the Russians got a lot more of them than we did.
		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
		They got a great deal more of them.
		And with that technical competency, we were able to do a whole lot of things that we might not have otherwise been able to do as rapidly as we were.
		But the simple fact of the matter is that those were, as you quite accurately pointed out, art is that these are scientists who are rocket scientists, not psychologists.
		As a matter of fact, the nature of most psychological research was not German, but rather Swiss and Austrian.
		John, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the air.
		We're going to have you back again soon.
		I hope to.
		What you're saying is just scary as hell and absolutely true.
		And I hope everybody goes out and buy your book one more time.
		Your book's name is Confidential.
		Confidential.
		Uncover your competitors' top business secrets and protect your own.
		And even though you won't get a real cheap copy on Amazon.com, you will get a slightly cheaper copy on Amazon.com.
		First time I've ever seen this happen.
		They must be afraid of this book.
		John, thank you.
		Thank you, Art.
		Have a good night.
		Good night, my friend.
		Well, there was a reality check for you.
		Three hours of reality check for you.
		To all of you from the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

▲