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Jan. 4, 2000 - Art Bell

02:52:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Hogue - Y2k, Religion, and Nostradamus

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	Welcome to Art Ball Somewhere In Time. Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 2013.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you
	may be.
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	Pole, and tomorrow night once again available worldwide on the Internet.
	Those of you seeking to hear us on the Internet are going to have no luck tonight because
	we're in the midst of a change, and that should be all straightened out by tomorrow night.
	Now as you know, the streaming video is no longer streaming, but we still have the webcam
	I still have that going.
	As a matter of fact, I spent hours and hours and hours disentangling all this feeding video equipment from the equipment that does the webcam.
	So there's a few glitches in that.
	You'll just have to understand.
	I had about a thousand wires, like spaghetti in here.
	Spaghetti for a big crowd.
	Okay, so we've got a lot to talk about tonight.
	John Holt will be here in the next hour, but let's see.
	Number one, Y2K.
	Y2K, the non-event.
	You have to admit, and I do admit, it was a non-event.
	Pretty much.
	So far.
	Now, for the sake of what I'm about to say, let's say it was a non-event, period.
	That by and large, nothing went wrong.
	Of course, that's not quite true, but at the scale that Gary North suggested and others, certainly no way, Jose.
	However, to those of you that stocked up on food, got emergency supplies of one sort or another, a generator perhaps, At the extreme, or a radio that doesn't require batteries, or a light that'll last a long time, don't get rid of any of it.
	Trust me when I tell you this, don't get rid of any of it.
	First of all, we're not done with Y2K.
	It'll unfold through about March.
	Number two, there's a certain way of looking at things, and that is, You were sort of self-insured.
	In other words, no doubt you went out and bought some food, if not a year's supply, then some food at least, right?
	And you may have, as I said, bought a Beijing radio or some other sort of radio that would operate independent of the power grid.
	Had some water stored, you know, what was recommended, the minimum recommendations that people talked about.
	Change that.
	I mean, you have, most of you who drive, you have car insurance, right?
	There's a friend of mine here in Perot who also prepared, who said this.
	If you have car insurance and you have paid your quarterly premium, or however you pay it, and you don't have an accident, you're not disappointed, are you?
	If you have fire and flood insurance on your house and your house doesn't burn down or go underwater, you're not going to discontinue your insurance, are you?
	I wouldn't think so.
	You probably, uh, either through your company or by yourself have some kind of health insurance.
	If you don't get sick, you don't bitch and quit paying, do you?
	So, if you did some preparations, and I certainly did, And I'm not sorry I did.
	It is amazing to me, and I am very thankful, that we did not lose power.
	That was the big one.
	You know, on New Year's Eve at midnight, I was really worried about power, because of what Gary North had said about the embedded chips.
	But it looks like, and you can kind of put some sort of looks like, To me, I'm not sure.
	It looks like we've got away with it, and thank God, considering the alternative.
	Now, as far as other things are concerned, you know, here's something I really find strange.
	The Y2K problems that we do have, that have been reported, are the last ones I would have expected.
	In other words, The Pentagon lost control of one of its very important satellites, and they reported that for a little while on CNN, and then stopped reporting it.
	They have problems at any number of nuclear power plants, and again, you would think they would be the last places that would have problems.
	I mean, the last places.
	You would think Joe's Pharmacy, or, you know, I just made that up, whatever little company is the one that would have problems.
	Now, there have been an awful lot of things that have happened that have been reported as non-Y2K related.
	They're very quick to add that.
	Non-Y2K related.
	There was an outage of the FAA's ability to track airplanes up in the Northeast.
	Pretty serious one, too.
	Non-Y2K related.
	And I just got this fax.
	From Linda, I'll just say Linda's so as not to identify them anymore.
	But it reads, no dear Art, I thought you'd like to know this.
	Where I work, the company directed us on Thursday via a company memo that when we reported back to work on Monday, if anything was wrong, it was not, underlined, to be reported as a Y2K problem.
	I only wonder how many companies Have instructed their employees to do the same, Linda.
	The obvious we know about.
	The world didn't end.
	I didn't think it would.
	The power didn't go off.
	That would have been serious.
	But the rest of it I'm not too sure about right now.
	At any rate, again coming back to what I said in the first place and what I really mean.
	If you're prepared, do not I repeat, do not give up those preparations.
	You're going to need them for the weather.
	And, uh, I don't know if you heard what happened in Scotland or not, but in Scotland, we just got reports of another storm that has hit with 100 mile per hour plus winds.
	In Scotland, this time.
	Tens of thousands of people without power.
	Blue destroyed just roofs right off homes, that kind of thing.
	We continue to get report after report after report of bad weather here in the U.S.
	Here's one.
	AR, what is going on with the weather?
	Those olive storms that just went through Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, and so on.
	The weather is relentless.
	Here in Buffalo, New York today, it was in the 50s.
	And we've only had about 10 inches of snow where I live.
	Now that's unheard of.
	The grass is green, and nobody's wearing winter coats.
	In New York, a couple of days ago, it was 70 degrees.
	Now, remember, we are into the month of January.
	70 degrees in New York.
	Can you imagine that?
	Prepare, if you have preparations, just in case the power does go off, in case it is weather related, now that Y2K seems, appears to be behind us.
	Keep your preparations.
	It was the Las Vegas Review Journal reporter, I think, that called.
	They had my number in, so they called me and they, they asked my friend here, they didn't ask me, they asked him.
	Well, I said, um, do you feel like you have egg in your face for the preparations you've done?
	And I was talking up on food and water and so forth.
	And he said, no.
	Not any more than I feel like I've got egg on my face when I pay my insurance.
	When my house didn't burn down.
	He said that worldwide, about 250 billion dollars was spent on Y2K remediation.
	And, I guess it worked.
	Again, I say, Y2K appears to be a non-event, but we're going to have to keep our eyes on the whole thing through March.
	So, anybody with any questions is welcome to ask them.
	We're going to be in open lines this hour, and then next hour, John Hope.
	Six weeks after she unofficially announced her candidacy for the New York Senate seat, Two moving vans arrived at the Clinton's new $1.7 million Westchester County home this afternoon.
	Mrs. Clinton was expected at the house tomorrow to begin emptying those boxes and spending her first night there.
	President Clinton is planning to visit there from time to time, but you've got to wonder, is this the beginning of the end of the Clintons?
	Or, if she were to get to be a senator, could he not afford to divorce her?
	She could not afford to have them divorce because she would then be, you know, I guess it's rough when you're a senator or a president, you can't go through a divorce publicly or you pay for it, I'm told.
	Or maybe on the other hand, people would fully understand if that's what occurred and would not politically hold that against her.
	Well, I see that George Bush has been endorsed by Elizabeth Dole, and now I see that Senator Kennedy is about to endorse Gore.
	Huh.
	The market.
	Good Lord, the market.
	It, uh, really took a dive today.
	The, uh, the stock market, percentage-wise, not bad at all, really.
	Even though it was, what was it, 359 points, something like that.
	The NASDAQ, though, down well over 200 points.
	The biggest drop in NASDAQ history.
	Why?
	Well, probably people taking profits, which they did not want before the new tax year, some of that.
	Everybody's afraid that interest rates are going to go up, and they might.
	Because the economy is really, really, really hot.
	You should see all of the stories I'm getting on China.
	Farmers on Beijing's barren hills saw, many of them, an object swamped in colored light that some say must have been a UFO.
	But they're not.
	Alone.
	People in 12 other cities in China reported unidentified flying object sightings last month.
	UFO researchers, meanwhile, were busy looking into claims of an alien abduction in Beijing.
	Here in the very beginning of the new millennium, the mainland is astir, China is, with alleged sightings of otherworld visitors.
	And for a country usually straitjacketed by its rulers, alien sightings are getting serious treatment.
	All of a sudden, a country that, well, you never heard from China, Here it is!
	China is going absolutely berserk, suddenly with UFOs and even abductions.
	What do you think would account for that?
	Remember, China politically is still a communist country, and you wouldn't expect this sort of thing to be coming out
	of China at all, but...
	...it is.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll publish on Tuesday, Tuesday at noon with pure joy.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly and tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, that it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that!
	They do not want us to know.
	They think that they lose control of us, if they know.
	If you actually truly believe that we are being visited by extraterrestrials, and you have categorical proof of this happening, do you think we would listen to some of the bill that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, and you'd say there's gotta be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing, and you would forget all about Government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the truth facts with UFOs.
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	Looking for the truth?
	See, I think there are more secrets out there.
	I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are legitimately in.
	That's what I think is happening.
	I don't think that they're stupid people.
	ideology or maybe even more serious a game plan.
	That's what I think has happened.
	I don't think that they're stupid people.
	I think they have a different agenda than me.
	Now, we take it back to the letter January 4th, 2000.
	I'm a gun.
	Somewhere in town.
	I'm a gun.
	But you know, that's really not quite true.
	There is good weather in places where there might not be good weather.
	As I said the other day, 70 degrees in New York City, same January.
	Up north in Canada, people are loving it.
	And I understand that.
	Not getting the cold weather they usually expect.
	Now that's not necessarily a good thing.
	Hey, last night they had in Owensboro, Kentucky, an F3 tornado that destroyed about 250 homes.
	250 homes.
	An F320O in January.
	In January!
	you.
	That's absolutely amazing.
	Amazing.
	Uh, what's going on?
	These are on air.
	Hello?
	Oh, this is Andy from Clackamas, Oregon.
	It's Clackamas Andy.
	How you doing, Andy?
	What's up?
	I was here November 10th, 8th, December 1st.
	Do I remember?
	Yeah, you were gone.
	You weren't on the air Tuesday, December 1st.
	Why?
	What happened?
	I think the radio station said there was a crisis in your family.
	Oh, uh, oh, yes, yes, yes.
	Uh, we're not on air.
	Well, I explained it on the air, Andy, and I don't want to have to explain it all over again.
	Uh, I appreciate your call, but... We relabeled that out on the air, and we're gonna have the archives back tomorrow.
	You can go listen to it there.
	They're not there right now.
	Um, as I explained, I want everybody to know that.
	If you're trying to listen on, uh, real audio, good luck.
	Because it's not set up tonight.
	It WILL be set up, I implore you.
	On tomorrow night.
	But then again, you never know.
	That's certainly, uh, what they've got planned, and I believe they will achieve that.
	There's a little bit of a change taking place there, uh, with respect to the association with Broadcast.com, but we are going to get it distributed to you anyway.
	As a matter of fact, actually, there's going to be a great expansion of the distribution of the radio by I'm sure.
	In fact, a Russian law, for the first time, is going to be available for kids now.
	Oddly loyal.
	That's going to make a lot of people happy, too.
	So, I'll hang in there.
	They're about to build an empire.
	Get by yourself.
	I heard it takes a little building, so be patient.
	All of us coming.
	I just want to remind you of that.
	So, be patient. All of us coming, I do want to remind you of that.
	Those of you willing to look for archives or whatever tonight, you're not going to find them.
	I can't believe we'll be back!
	I remember this!
	It's Coast to Coast AM!
	Dear Distinguished Board Members, everyone is home.
	I'm the Commander of Radio Networks.
	The Stand, from January 4th, 2000.
	Great to be here.
	We're post-Y2K.
	How do you feel, by the way, in the new millennium?
	Do you feel refreshed?
	New York Bell, similar in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
	Good morning everybody, great to be here.
	We're post Y2K.
	How do you feel, by the way, in the new millennium?
	Do you feel refreshed?
	New?
	Happy?
	Sad?
	How many of you out there are sad that something big and nasty didn't happen?
	There are some people who are sad that something didn't happen.
	I'm glad.
	If the last thing we wanted to have happen was for some sort of infrastructure collapse to take place here or worldwide or anywhere, and so far it looks like we really are okay.
	And again, I'm very, very happy about that.
	And you should be too.
	And those of you who've prepared, stay prepared.
	Don't go off eating up all your food and getting rid of whatever you may have done to get ready, because the way the weather's looking right now, you're definitely gonna need it.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000 on our bell, somewhere in time.
	Back to the lines we go again at the top of the hour, John Holt.
	on hold on.
	Not only did we not have any Y2K problems of significance yet, but we didn't have any terrorism of significance yet.
	And the man who has talked a great deal about that with respect to prophecy has been John Holt, one of the world's great experts on Nostradamus.
	And so I thought it appropriate to have him on this night.
	First time caller online or on the air?
	Hello?
	Uh, yes.
	Uh, can you give me your fax number, please?
	Well, I could.
	Are you going to fax me something good?
	Uh, you will be interested in it.
	Yes, indeed.
	I will, huh?
	That's, that's guaranteed?
	Oh, it's a guarantee.
	All right, then.
	You got a pencil and tape?
	I've got a pencil and tape right here.
	I'll give you a letter for you when I get done.
	All right.
	It's area code 775.
	775.
	727.
	727.
	775 727 8499 8499.
	8499.
	8499.
	Right.
	8499.
	Right.
	Is this Art?
	Yes.
	Okay, Art.
	I'm calling from Louisville, Kentucky.
	Yes, sir.
	It's the first time I've called.
	I've listened to your show a couple of years.
	It's a real interesting show.
	Excuse me.
	What I'm going to fax you, my mother's cousin was a pilot in the Kentucky Air National Guard back in 1956.
	Right.
	Excuse me.
	Right.
	Excuse me.
	His plane crashed in a cornfield over in Bedford, Indiana.
	And my aunt never did believe the crash report, at least the official report that the airport
	gave her.
	In what respect?
	Well, according to the air force, the crash was caused by a lack of oxygen.
	They said he suffered hypoxia, and he blacked out, and he crashed his plane.
	Well, that's very much like what happened to the Golfer.
	Right, right.
	But this, have you ever, I'm sure you're aware of the story of Thomas Mount Mantell?
	No.
	Okay, well he was a pilot back in 1948.
	Well now, let me ask a few details.
	Hypoxia begins to occur, oh I don't know, 12, 13,000 feet, 13,500, above about that, you begin to get in trouble.
	So why, what caused this?
	Well, I've heard a story my entire life.
	My aunt told it to me and told it to my mother.
	She never believed the report and we never did know why.
	She always said, she always told my mother and she always told me up until the day she died, that she always thought her son saw something up there and that is what made him, that is what caused him to crash his plane.
	But we never did, I never did get the background of the story.
	I never just delved into it until about two years ago.
	Back in 1996, I got all the information I could locally.
	I went down to the library.
	When this plane crashed, it was on the front page of the local paper here in Louisville.
	Right.
	The front page article.
	And I got all the information I could out of that.
	And I called National Archives and a few other places.
	I wanted to get a copy of the crash report.
	And they told me I would have to write Kirkland Air Force Base out in Albuquerque, because all the older records got shipped out there up to a certain date.
	They would have all the reports of the crash reports, anything you want, they would have out there.
	Right.
	So I went ahead and wrote them a letter, and through the Freedom of Information Act, I got a copy of the crash report, and it's about, I don't know, probably 30 pages long.
	Don't send me 30 pages.
	I'm not.
	What I got, I have it all made up, it's about 9 or 10 pages long.
	No, no, don't even send me that.
	My fax machine will not accept more than three.
	In other words, it goes into memory, and if there's more than three pages... Well, I'll have to pick out three good pages.
	Yeah, there you go.
	But I got the report from 1956.
	I got it a few years back, and I was looking at it.
	And what did it say?
	It has an entire synopsis, basically, of the flight.
	He took off from Louisville.
	It was 3.30 in the afternoon.
	It was on a sunny mid-winter day in January.
	And he was out for a routine flight.
	This guy was a World War II fighter pilot.
	He had like 3,600 hours of missions over Nazi occupied Europe.
	What kind of aircraft was he in?
	He was in a F-51, which was a modified P-51 Mustang.
	Okay.
	It was supplied with oxygen.
	He had oxygen in his oxygen-equipped plane.
	Gotcha.
	And he was out on a routine flight.
	He was out testing a carburetor, and they put a new prop on that plane.
	Alright, but again, what did they suggest the cause of the crash was, and why?
	Okay, according to them, according to the Air Force, they said it was hypoxia.
	They thought that he went up too far in either His oxygen core got tangled, or it got cracked, or whatever he blacked out.
	But the interesting thing, if you read this report, in the report itself, in a detailed overview of the flight, he was totally coherent, totally conscious, five minutes before the plane crashed.
	And five minutes before the plane crashed, the radar unit in Fort Knox, where he took off from, Spotted some high-flying, what they called, high-flying jet aircraft.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	They had that on a radar unit.
	They had located that on radar.
	And according to an interview that was done back in 1996 with the Commanding General of this base, he said, and I'm quoting, this radar unit in, I think it was Oak Hill, down in Fort Knox, that told this pilot they vectored him to intercept these
	high-flying aircraft.
	And the next thing you know, five minutes later, he's no longer close.
	So in other words, he was quiet to intercept those aircraft.
	Yeah, but the thing, he was a 20,000 foot, and if you've got a blackout,
	you'll start blacking out about 14 or 15,000 like you saw.
	Well, you'll start to feel a little oxygen starved.
	Right.
	He was at 20,000 and then he climbed to 34,000.
	Well, you're definitely in trouble up there.
	Right.
	And the last thing that he reported is he was going to climb to 35,000 to try to see what these aircraft were that were approaching from his right.
	But they didn't characterize them as... They never identified what they were.
	Anywhere in the report, even, you know, there's nowhere in the report that they identified later as Uh, a group of, uh, commercial planes, or anything like that.
	High-flying jet aircraft.
	They classify them as high-flying jet aircraft.
	Alright, well listen... In general, they vector him to intercept, and the next thing you know, he's on the way to intercept.
	Yeah, if they... Obviously, then, they were unidentified, or they would not have wanted him to go identify them.
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Send that to me.
	I can't see what their point was.
	What's he going to do when he intercepts it?
	I understand.
	All right.
	Send that to me.
	Okay.
	About three pages?
	Yeah.
	And then if you want to mail the rest, that's fine.
	All right?
	Okay.
	Can you add, when you're off the air or whatever, can you give me your post office box?
	P.O.
	Box 4755.
	Okay.
	Hold on.
	4755.
	In Vermont.
	That's P as in Paul.
	A-H-R-U-M-P.
	Okay.
	Nevada.
	Zip code 89041.
	That's fine.
	That's fine.
	Thank you very much and take care.
	The trouble is, with nothing identified more than a high-flying jet aircraft, to be able to go back now and put any piece of that together and suggest there was more to it is going to be one tough job, I'll tell you.
	What's to the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, how are you doing?
	Fine.
	Good.
	I can't believe I got through.
	Yes, you have.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Redding, California, and I listen to KQMS.
	Close to the infamous Redding Ripple.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, I called because I listen to your program.
	I've been listening to it since 1994, and I notice that a lot of times people come on, They say things, and you have guests that say things that are absolutely undefensible and are completely untrue, and no one ever challenges these things.
	For example, you have people in the faith, in regards to reincarnation, that the early church taught reincarnation.
	Yes.
	And I've studied thoroughly the early church.
	I believe there's a very great deal of support for that.
	There isn't, though.
	The thing is, is that, okay, they mention a lot of times, origin.
	Origin, he was a Greek father, but he did not teach reincarnation.
	He taught the pre-existence of the human soul.
	And he said that we existed in a heavenly realm before we came to Earth, and we fell, and we came to Earth, but he did not teach reincarnation.
	In fact, he taught... Well, you know, I don't think anybody is going to take, challenge your belief.
	And what you believe is what you believe.
	Now, if somebody believes in reincarnation, It's not exactly your job to talk them out of it.
	There was a very large council vote about reincarnation.
	So you do know about it.
	What do you mean it's not true?
	It is true.
	Why would they have a vote?
	not true it is true no the early church did not teach reincarnation origin
	didn't teach it he taught against it why would they have a vote?
	could you tell me that?
	okay they had a the issue was brought up by the Gnostic but the early church
	kept to the original rule of faith handed down by the Apocryphal But I mean, why would they, particularly then, and they were certainly very strict, you will admit, then, why would they even consider and have a vote on something that they would consider preposterous?
	Well, some of the Gnostics were bringing it into the Christian churches and stating as if it was Apostolic
	doctrine, but it was not.
	It was not originally taught by the Apostles. There's no evidence in history for that.
	This is revisionist history that's going on, and there's been ample evidence to go against this that these people
	have checked it out.
	But I just want to say one thing. The last guest you had on that talked about origin.
	Origin did not teach it. He even condemned the idea of the transmigration of the soul when he wrote to the Celestis.
	Just out of curiosity, what is your belief with regard to our soul?
	I'm...
	I believe, as the Greek Fathers and Church Fathers taught, that we were created at the moment of conception.
	In other words, that the soul was birthed at that moment?
	Yeah.
	And that's the way God created us.
	Would that be at the moment of conception, or at the moment of getting slapped on the butt?
	Um, probably, I would say a conception, probably.
	But my main concern here is that there's a historical revisionism going on by your... Well, how do you explain people who are able to go into a hypnotic trance and describe another life?
	And I mean details and specifics of another life that they can then go and check on and verify.
	Things they could not possibly, not possibly have known.
	Names and descriptions of physical locations and all the rest of that, how do you dismiss that in your mind?
	Well, I believe that... Let me put it this way, dismiss it without considering it.
	I do consider it, and I believe that since we are made in the image of God, that we have capabilities that we're not presently fully aware of, and when people are in a trance-type state, All right, I'll buy that.
	I'll buy that, thank you, as easily as I'll buy the other.
	Yeah, sure.
	I think it's entirely possible that all of this is an artifact of the human mind, and I think I've brought that up to nearly every guest that I've had in the paranormal, whether you're talking about somebody who's able to read minds, Move objects, bend laser light, you know, all the various things that we know are done.
	You've got to consider that there's no supernatural, anything involved in it, other than an existing or pre-existing artifact of the living human mind.
	And I don't dismiss that as a possibility.
	And in fact, to go further, I don't dismiss the possibility that there is not even a God.
	That there's no devil.
	No God, no devil.
	No afterlife.
	Don't know.
	And that's one of the reasons I've been doing all of this exploration with a lot of people because I don't know!
	Not for sure.
	That's all I have to say.
	And I know that a lot of you out there will sit there and say, well, you should know and you should be saved and then you'd know.
	But I haven't been and I don't.
	It could be that we're the only ones Despite all the UFO reports, you've got to imagine the possibility that we are alone.
	It's every bit as fantastic a consideration as there are others.
	At least, it's certainly possible.
	Maybe I went too far there.
	In my view, it's more probable there are others than not.
	But the possibility exists that we're all alone.
	That way back when, no creation occurred, that lightning hit a mud puddle and some little thing crawled out of the mud puddle and jumped in the ocean, or was born in the ocean, or whatever.
	And here we are today.
	I mean, any or all of these things are possible.
	And what you believe with regard to them is a matter of faith.
	And I wouldn't attempt to shake your faith.
	But I will continue to explore The possibilities.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Yeah, hi.
	Uh, Arthel?
	Yes.
	Yeah, uh, let me get my radio off.
	Oh, turn it off, yes.
	It's very confusing if you don't do that.
	Uh, I'd like to say that, um, I'm the best thing on the radio.
	Yeah, that's very kind of you, but again, there you've got it off, finally.
	Yeah, I've got it off.
	I'm the best thing on the radio.
	Uh, I am going to send you a letter.
	I'm in New York, and I'm on a trip to New York.
	Oh, I'm coming to New York?
	Yes, you are.
	I'm going to be on the NBC Today Show on the 11th, and then on the 12th, I'm going to be in New York City at Warrington Noble Rockefeller Center at 12.30 in the afternoon, signing books along with Whitley Streep.
	Unfortunately, I will not be able to be there, but I do want you to read my letter.
	All right.
	I'd like to say that I don't know if you're aware that Curtis Leroy and Steve Mossberg were given awards, and I was shocked to find out that you weren't.
	What were they awarded?
	I don't even remember.
	I was so shocked, it just threw everything else out of my mind.
	And I guess if people want to give them awards, that's their business, but I was so shocked that you weren't.
	Curtis, you were supposed to get the keys to New York.
	You mean Curtis is going to take away my keys to New York?
	That's right.
	Oh, that's the final straw.
	That's the final straw.
	My keys to New York, I didn't even know I was going to get them and now I've lost them.
	Yes, you know, I hate to tell you this, but... That's the meanest thing I've ever heard.
	It is the meanest thing I've ever heard too.
	It's totally, you can't underestimate it.
	That would have been one of the high points of my life, to get the keys to New York.
	I mean, not many people get that.
	And Curtis Leela has taken away my keys to New York.
	Boy, that is as cruel as you can get.
	I know, he boasted of this one in the air.
	Did he?
	Yeah.
	How else would I find out?
	I really, you know, I think that there is something really hell hath no fury like somebody cut off their airplane.
	And this just may be him.
	A little bend on the hell have no fury like the woman scorned.
	Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
	I'm sure his fury is equal.
	Maybe it's like beret people scorned.
	Like what?
	Beret people scorned.
	Yes, definitely.
	I'm very upset.
	Now this I'm sad about.
	I'm going to miss the keys to New York because of Curtis.
	Curtis, if you're listening, this really is The final straw.
	I mean, everything else I could have handled, but losing the keys to New York, which would have been such an honor, that's too much.
	Well, you have the keys to the hearts of all your fans, so I hope you get some compensation.
	Listen, I'll live through it.
	Thank you very much.
	Could I say one more thing?
	One more thing.
	I got the flyer from the J. Michael Stevens Company.
	Oh, yes.
	I'd like to add the fable of the boy who didn't cry wolf, because we are going to be all wrapped up.
	Oh, I know.
	I know.
	I appreciate your call.
	Thank you.
	Yes, I say it again.
	Any of you who prepare it out there, don't be rid of your preparations.
	There are a lot of bumps in the road ahead, even though Y2K appears not to have been one of them.
	None of it seems to have come true, or at least certainly not the apocalyptic type predictions, which is a good thing.
	And so is preparation.
	Keep your stuff.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
	The love you gave me nothing else to save me, it's gone.
	When you're gone, I cannot even try to go on.
	When you're gone, you're a god, how can I carry on?
	You seem to fall away, the more you send me You make me feel like I'm stuck inside, I'm here
	I really try to make it out, I wish I'd understood I'm not sure what I can do
	There's a lot of heartache, never a day without a heartache I've been falling away, I can't seem to get out
	I've got to put something in, I'm too drunk to be alright Can I get him?
	There's a lot of heartache, never a day without a heartache I've been falling away, I can't seem to get out
	I've got to put something in, I'm too drunk to be alright Can I get him?
	I've got a lot of, heartache I've got a lot of, tears drop, heartache
	Tears drop, all of the way Nothing but a heartache, never a day
	Nothing but a heartache, never a day Nothing but a heartache, tears drop all of the way
	Nothing but a heartache, tears drop all of the way He's got me all right, but I can't get him
	I'm not in love at all Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired January 4th, 2000 Well, it's the new millennium and I still love this song
	Hey, as a matter of fact, somebody sent me a pristine 45 copy of this record
	45 RPM copy of this record.
	And what a treasure.
	Thank you very much.
	If I had your name, I would thank you.
	It was really, uh, it's really neat.
	An original.
	You can look at it.
	You can see that vinyl has never been crossed by a needle.
	It's pristine.
	The flirtations are nothing but a harney.
	Thank you, whoever that was.
	Coming up in a moment, John Hogue, there are a couple of things I want to touch base with you on, for those of you joining at this hour.
	One is, obviously, as I said last hour, Y2K was a non-event.
	With an asterisk there.
	We're going to have to watch it through March, but it was a non-event.
	And any of you out there who prepared, don't unprepare.
	The newspaper called up and asked a friend of mine here in town, well, gee, you prepared for Y2K.
	I bet you feel like you have egg on your face, huh?
	The world spent about $250 billion in Y2K remediation.
	I guess it worked.
	Power didn't fail.
	And we have yet to see, of course, down line, whether there may be some problems there are.
	Surprisingly, in places you wouldn't expect them, nuclear power plants You would think they'd be high on the list of fix-its, you know, beforehand, but they have quite a few problems, and there's some other areas that you just wouldn't expect those problems.
	But, by and large, it didn't happen.
	It was the bug that didn't bite, and so if you prepared with water, food, radios that don't require batteries, lights, don't unprepare.
	I have never seen weather the way we're having it ever.
	Here's the story from the BBC in Scotland.
	It's power lines down as storms hit.
	Thousands of homes in the north of Scotland are now without electricity after winds of, get this, here we go again, more than 100 miles per hour blew down power lines.
	Scottish Hydroelectric said about 11,700 customers were affected in Orkney, Shetland, and the Western Isles and the Highlands at the peak of difficulties.
	A spokeswoman said that engineers were working to reconnect supplies and were being hampered by adverse weather conditions.
	She said, obviously, all local men are working flat out to restore supplies, but we're talking about winds in some areas in excess of 100 miles an hour, where it's rather difficult to do.
	That's solid.
	Now this is story number three in the last three weeks.
	Seventy degrees in New York a couple days ago.
	Tornadoes in the middle part of the U.S.
	ripping up homes in January.
	Hello!
	It's changing, so if you're prepared, stay prepared.
	Eat not your food, drink not your prepared water, and stay prepared.
	One other little item before we turn our attention to John Hogue.
	They're beginning to turn away people from hospitals with regard to the flu.
	25% of the workers at the California Federal Bank's 19 Orange County branches have been sick every day since mid-December.
	Now, listen to that again.
	That's one out of four of the workers at the California Federal Bank's Nineteen Orange County branches have been sick every day since mid-December with the flu.
	A sub-headline here is, this is from the Orange County Register, by the way, flu, some hospitals having to turn away patients.
	I watched a really interesting A&E piece over the weekend on the people that are looking for the 1918 flu virus.
	And they found it, and they're attempting to reconstruct the DNA of that flu virus.
	Really, really interesting.
	They followed two expeditions, one very moneyed, and the other just one solitary man who went to Alaska and actually got fresh samples, fresh tissue with the 1918 flu virus in it.
	Pretty interesting.
	I wonder if any of the rest of you saw that.
	All right, anyway, coming up in a moment, Is John Holt.
	And John, I guess, is the equivalent of some of the people who have been talking about Y2K, which is, I'm pretty much prepared to concede, a non-event.
	Turned out to be a non-event, thank God.
	But with regard to terrorism, I would say he's the equivalent of those who have been screeching about Y2K.
	And by the way, if people had not screeched about Y2K, it probably would have happened.
	$250 billion worldwide, that's a lot of money to spend, and so I guess they got it.
	I guess.
	That's a very tentative I guess, by the way.
	To the introductory copy for John Holt, and in a minute you're going to see why it's going to be kind of like an extension of the show that we did last hour, the last hour show.
	In the first days of July 1999, many who interpreted the 16th century prophet Nostradamus believed that the month would not end without fulfillment of his dire prophecy of a great king of terror descending from the skies.
	Many expected the Third Antichrist to make himself known as a terrorist who triggers World War III.
	July came and went.
	No significant acts of terrorism in the world.
	On New Year's Eve, 1999, a shadow of concern dimmed the luster of celebration plans for millions around the world.
	Plans for a major Millennium Bash went forward in New York, but the city of Seattle, once more, has to cancel its Millennium Party.
	The city government based their decision on circumstantial evidence and rumors that terrorists planned to crash the party, if not the Seattle Space Needle itself, with a bomb.
	When the clock struck midnight, The only terror on Seattle's streets came from the occasional heart-stopping discharge of a kid's firecracker.
	The only terror waiting for New Yorkers on New Year's Day was 36 tons of party garbage left behind by the two million celebrants in Times Square.
	If the big bad Y2K buff turned out to be a gnat in disguise, It would seem the threat of a terrorist act somewhere, anywhere in the world, was not even a gnat's whisper in the din of what turned out to be the world's greatest global party.
	Are the prophetic warnings of terrorism just another kind of Y2K humbug?
	A new millennium demands a new examination into the signs and interpretations of terrorism in prophecy.
	John Hogue is the acknowledged world expert on Nostradamus and other prophetic traditions.
	And he is here tonight on the line from Seattle.
	And in a moment, we are going to speak with him.
	So directly ahead, John Hope.
	Streaming. The audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of 3,000,000 of shows.
	That's over 1,000 shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Looking for the fruit?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that, and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials, and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing, and you would forget all about Government control and everything else.
	So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Stringling.
	The audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	Just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
	The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player.
	And the iPhone app, with live and on-demand programs.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to select, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
	Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Summer in Time shows and two weekly classes.
	And remember, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Nori and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Are you looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norris.
	See, I think there are more secrets out there.
	I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
	You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
	That's what I think is happening.
	I don't think that they're stupid people.
	I think they have a different agenda than we do.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on our bell, Summer in Time.
	Just briefly, once again, we're going to be in New York City.
	I'm going to be in New York City, along with my wife and Woodley Streber and his wife.
	Next week is going to be a really wild week in more ways than one.
	And we're going to be doing the Today Show on December 11th, and then on December 12th, we're going to be at Barnes & Noble at 1230 in the afternoon.
	That's Rockefeller Center.
	Barnes & Noble Rockefeller Center in New York.
	And we're going to do a book signing beginning at 12.30.
	My advice, arrive early.
	It's the launch hour.
	So if you can do it, arrive early.
	And you'll be able to actually get the new book, The Coming Global Superstorm, autographed by the two of us.
	All right.
	Now, here is John Hope.
	John, welcome back to the program.
	Glad to be back.
	Great to have you.
	John, how long has it been?
	Well, the last show we did was on May 28th of September.
	And it was for my book, 1000 for 2000.
	Yes.
	However, you did do Dreamland this last weekend with Whitley Streep.
	Yes, we were talking about my newest book, Messiah's Visions and Prophecies of the Second Coming.
	Okay, before we launch into what we're going to do tonight about terrorism, and I certainly want to talk about that, I got a fax here from somebody named Brian.
	Brian says, hey Art, you've got to ask John Hogue about religion.
	He said on Dreamland, you can confirm or deny this, that people who need religion are, quote, weak and need to grow up, end quote.
	No, I didn't say that.
	You did say that.
	No, I didn't say that.
	What I said was that, and Basically the subject of Messiah is about re-examining the whole messianic subject of prophecy.
	And what I said was that situations where, for me personally, I think that a lot of what we are told is religion is myth and virgin births.
	I said, come on, let's grow up, we're in the new millennium.
	Virgin birth.
	Oh, yeah, but that's sort of saying that.
	Virgin births.
	Well, you mean on Christ, right?
	Yeah, but I'm just making specifically... But, I mean, if you say virgin births, Okamot grew up.
	Yes.
	It was a miracle.
	I mean, there are a lot of miracles that were documented in the Bible.
	Actually, where is that documentation?
	Well, I mean...
	I mean, you know, the parting of the Red Sea, all the rest of it.
	Well, it is as documented, to be fair, to the Christians, as the Buddhist myth that says that Buddha fell from his mother's womb and walked seven feet, and then declared I'm the most enlightened person who's ever lived, and every footprint flowers sprouted from it.
	Is that what Buddha supposedly did?
	Yes.
	Wow.
	In the context of what Whitley and I were talking about, we were looking at how a lot of things in the new millennium are going to be re-examined.
	Not only what we're going to talk later about with terrorism, but even the whole issue of, I think, what's going to be the most burning issue in prophecy for the next year.
	And that is, okay, we've reached the millennium.
	According to over 30 religions, mainstream and fringe, we're expecting 30 messiahs.
	The thing that usually happens is if you look in the past and see what people have done in the past expecting their messiahs, they usually have a lot of expectations which over sometimes centuries have been garnished and changed and made even stronger and people are waiting for a certain kind of person to appear and historically speaking The person who actually does appear, who later with hindsight seems to be the one that was foreseen, like a Jesus, like a Buddha, ends up the vast majority of the people miss it.
	Just look back 2,000 years ago.
	The vast majority of the people of the world miss Jesus.
	The people of his own nation, Israel, were expectant because of certain popular interpretations of the Book of Daniel, that they were living in the times when Messiah would come.
	But what they were expecting Was a warrior, kind of a Jewish alleged ender of the great, who would come and kick Roman butt and get them back to being established as the... Well, Roman butt did get kicked.
	No, not by the Jews.
	Well, I mean, by the Savior.
	Well, no, you're jumping ahead.
	We're not talking about the people who later believed in Jesus.
	Oh, I see.
	We're talking about the people who expected Emmanuel to come back from the bloodline of David.
	And do you think there was, kind of cutting right here to the quick of all this, but do you believe there was a man called Jesus who walked earth?
	Oh yes.
	The man described in the Bible.
	Yes, but he's buried as are many people who we later call messiahs and avatars and god men and all of that.
	His historical sanctity is buried in centuries of borrowed stories and myths.
	Do you believe he arose from the dead?
	Not in the literal sense.
	And it has not been proven.
	Neither has it been disproven.
	But you know, people, one of the things that is difficult in the case of religion is that many of the, especially the Western religions, base a lot of what they look at on faith, which is fine, but technically speaking, if you base yourself on a faith, it means that you have not actually proven What's your belief?
	To believe is not to know, but to trust in what you don't know.
	You trust that someone else who has told you that it's so, has made it so.
	A faith!
	That is faith.
	There's another kind of faith, which other mystical groups sometimes believe in, and that is faith in embracing the unknown.
	That I don't know.
	As you were saying last hour, that to be in a state of non-knowing, Or what Bodhi Dharma used to say, one of the patriarchs of Zen.
	Did you hear my first hour?
	Yes, I did.
	Good.
	Then you heard me say, with regard to God or the devil, I don't know.
	With regard to UFOs from somewhere else or ours, I don't know.
	Exactly.
	I really honestly don't know.
	If you press me to the wall, I don't know.
	And if I investigate through my years as being a meditator and studying around the world different religious movements, which is one of my other major studies, which will yet have some books coming out, the thing I find is the deeper I go into the examination, the observation of mysteries and the miracles of being alive, the less I know.
	The more I experience, the less I know.
	Well, I've not found the same thing.
	Hold on, John.
	We'll be right back.
	I have to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
	A lot more time.
	It's going to be pretty controversial.
	I can already tell.
	Can't you?
	Do you feel your blood beginning to boil?
	I bet.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from January 4th, 2000.
	I'll tell you now, I thought that we had made it to the top.
	I gave you all I have to give.
	Why did it have to stop?
	I thought that we had made it to the top I gave you all I have to give
	Why did it have to stop?
	You've thrown it all sky high By telling me goodbye
	Without a reason why You've thrown it all sky high
	You know me, though, sky-high, I love...
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an on-call presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from January 4th, 2000.
	Actually, I never got to read this whole text by Brian, though John says he didn't quite say that.
	It says, alright, ask John Holt about religion.
	He said on Greenland, the people who need religion are, quote, weak and need to grow up.
	I wouldn't give a guy like that that time of day.
	He should not be a guest on your show, Brian.
	Well, he didn't say that, precisely.
	Although, I would say that you got close, in a way.
	In a way, but that's always the key problem.
	In a way, over 20 centuries, people in a way remember their masters, remember their religious founders, and in a way, over 20 centuries, by that way, you end up getting misinterpretations.
	And I could see where that story passed down a line of people could make a completely different myth about what I said on Whitley Stuber's show.
	Now, what I said was that a A new religiousness may be coming in the world.
	A new millennium may see a lot of the current religions that we see today as mainstream religions fade away.
	I mean, do you remember the cult of Isis?
	Or do you remember the Mithraic cult?
	No.
	These were the mainstream religions of 20 centuries ago.
	Right.
	And they also had their belief that they would be tested by new cults and they would survive.
	But they have not.
	Yes, but John, one thing that has survived since the dawn of man, since we have recorded anything, is religion.
	Not in the same form, perhaps.
	Religiousness.
	Religiousness, yes.
	That has survived throughout all of the ages that we can document.
	We have worshipped, I don't care what it is, the sun, the moon, the stars, the earth, Native Americans, you can go back, everybody always worships something.
	There will always be religiousness.
	As long as there's a human spark of divineness alive, there will always be religiousness.
	But the dogmas come and go.
	Yeah, I agree with you.
	Some stay around longer than others.
	Certainly Christianity by Measured against some other religions in the world is very young indeed.
	Yes, for example.
	Yes, Hinduism goes back, well, it depends on your scholars.
	In India, scholars tell me it goes back tens of thousands of years.
	Our Judeo-Christian point of view is that it's at least beyond past 1000 B.C.
	Sure.
	So, I come back at you with the following.
	The fact that religiousness has survived the ages I think is a testament to the probability of our not being a product of randomness but rather of some sort of creation.
	Absolutely.
	I agree with that and what I'm saying is that it seems to me from my life on this planet observing around the world the different religious dogmas is that these actually retard, they could actually retard our ability to The pursuit of enlightenment of the human race is one of the greatest miracles that we have ever had on this planet because it thrives despite the dogmas, the myths, the wise tales, and all the things that we tend to unconsciously pollute
	More like Y2K, it's a non-event.
	I had a man on my show, I bet you heard him, who wrote a book called The God Part of the Brain.
	Do you know anything about that?
	No, I don't.
	Let me explain it to you.
	Maybe you will be interested in this concept.
	I think his name is Matthew Albert, and his contention is as follows.
	Religiousness, as you pointed out, and I pointed out, has always been here.
	If you go and you encounter a tribe that's never been touched by humanity harder and harder these days in Brazil or, you know, I don't know, the Philippines, wherever, you'll find they worship something.
	And his contention is that the greatest fear that man has is death.
	The ultimate terror.
	I would not argue with that.
	The Grim Reaper.
	The greatest fear that man has is death.
	And that in order to cope with that, man had to invent something, always has to invent something, that allows for his continuation after physical death, because it's absolutely inevitable.
	So, he contends the brain, and it can actually be measured, has a specific area that becomes very active when one considers spiritual matters.
	So the brain, in effect, Invented a protective mechanism to allow man to function normally called religion.
	And it's the God part of the brain.
	What do you think of that?
	Very interesting theory, but as far as my own experience of mysteries, it's half the equation.
	Death certainly is the ultimate king of terror.
	And I would say Virtually speaking, it is definitely something that makes all of us pause and reflect about existence.
	I myself have nearly died three times.
	Yeah, but not if you believe strongly, incontrovertibly, in an afterlife.
	That the God you believe in and have absolute faith in, and I don't put people down for having it at all, is going to whisk you away and you will continue on.
	If you believe that, Then that takes the edge off the fear of death.
	And if you don't face the fear of death, in my experience, you will not encounter the mystery, the real mystery of life.
	That is my testament, my experience in my personal life.
	To believe in something is to retard the investigation.
	That has been my experience.
	I agree.
	And the thing that's also missing from it is that the other thing, and I learned this studying in the East, the other thing that also triggered Humanity's quest for religiousness was the mystery of sexuality, of having orgasmic moments with your beloved.
	And the mind stopped and suddenly you feel one with the universe.
	And death and sex, usually in societies you will find that either sex is an open issue and death is repressed, like in the West.
	Or in the east where I live, sex is repressed and you go to the burning ghats and it's a very open thing to follow the process of what happens to a body when it's died.
	And I've done it.
	I've done the burning ghat meditations for three days and nights sitting in the riverbank watching a body burn.
	Then meditating on the skull and the bones that were remaining the following day and then meditating on the empty pit where the body once was.
	It's quite a powerful initiation into death and how something also in the experience showed me that I had to laugh inside.
	It felt so familiar that I've done it a million times.
	It felt like it's not a big deal.
	But that's my experience and I don't want anyone out there to believe anything that I'm saying.
	If it vibrates with you, if something in your heart is stirred by what I say, If you want to dump it, that's great.
	I respect your opinion.
	If you want to pursue it, I respect your opinion.
	It's your responsibility.
	I've had my own responsibility and my own process of seeking, and I try to share that in my books.
	Let me try a scenario out on you.
	If you had been alive at the time of Christ and you had seen the miracles performed, Well, I can't do it that way.
	Let's try it another way.
	Let's say Christ came back and you witnessed the miracles described in the Bible, or new ones.
	Let's have new ones for the millennium.
	New miracles.
	People healed from incurable illnesses, seized, parted, all sorts of things, whatever you want to imagine today.
	The Brooklyn Bridge cut in half, you know, whatever.
	Would you embrace that or I would be as skeptic as the original Greek word was intended.
	Not cynic.
	Most people think skeptic says, oh, well, I'm in the negative.
	I'm not going to believe it.
	I'm going to already judge it as a negative.
	Well, that's biased.
	If I see a miracle, and I see many miracles in my life, I would look at it and observe it, neither for nor against.
	Skepticism in Greek means to investigate, to meditate on it, to see it, to look at it, to see if there's anything that was triggered for or against it, if it were a trick or not.
	We live in a world of miracles, and one thing that's taught me a lot from prophecy study is that when you look at things we take for granted... Let me challenge you.
	What miracle?
	We live in a world of what miracles?
	Just tell me about a miracle.
	Electricity.
	Radio.
	The fact that you and I are talking on the airwaves.
	No.
	No.
	Not miracles.
	Yes, I know, because now we're used to it.
	Now we know it.
	But if you were the first man before the radio era to hear this, it would be a miracle, wouldn't it?
	Oh, it would be magic.
	Electricity.
	Another magic.
	Cloud trails in the sky.
	Another magic.
	Absolutely.
	We take these things for granted, and that is the one thing a prophet scholar has to see.
	Is how we perceive a prophecy depends on our era and history, and it constantly changes.
	We take for granted, as soon as we get used to things, the miracles of medicine.
	The fact that in the 1920s, half your family of kids died before the age of five.
	Now, if I were to tell you that that would end in America, people would think it's a miracle.
	It is a miracle!
	But it's a miracle that also can be explained.
	And I would say that eventually, everything that we currently call miracles... Can be explained.
	Will eventually be explained.
	We'll be able to measure, as I showed in 1000 for 2000, there were prophecies where we will be able to measure human thought.
	We will be able, perhaps, even to measure what we consider people who have departed.
	Why should our ability to get finer and finer tuned instruments end with a new millennium?
	It will just continue.
	So with that, the thing that will also happen is as the old miracles become familiar, there will always be new miracles to take their place.
	I think that will be an eternal experience.
	Can you name something that today we regard as a miracle?
	Well, the genetic engineering, artificial wounds, the ability to gain your entire sustenance from... Again, not miracles.
	Well, no, no, we don't have an artificial wound.
	Not by today's standards.
	Okay, well then... In other words, we may grow a human soon and a cow.
	We're going to clone a human soon.
	All of this I know, but it can all be explained.
	Teleportation.
	Teleportation?
	IBM has done it with light.
	Yes, but physical matter.
	Taking atoms and moving them to another place.
	Not yet.
	I haven't done it yet.
	Okay.
	That's a miracle.
	If that happened, you'd call it a miracle.
	But someday, somebody will make it happen and you won't call it a miracle.
	Yes, but what I'm arguing here is on the side of those who would say of the Bible, in that day, those were absolutely miracles that could not be explained then and cannot be explained now.
	Well, the problem with that is that we don't, because it's of that day, because in those days people didn't record things.
	History is a concept that came almost a thousand years after the birth of Christ.
	You're saying it's all revisionist, which is a kinder way of saying it's all a bunch of bull.
	It's not true.
	It is corrupted.
	I'm sure that there are fragments that are true, but you know, we don't even call Jesus by his original name, and I often wonder why that is not happening.
	Why this Roman-Greek misnomer?
	Why not call him by his Jewish name, Yeshua, Bar Yosef?
	So even in the very fundamental of where people pray to for so many centuries, the facticity of his real name is not even addressed in public.
	Why?
	And if that fundamental thing has problems, Then one has to assume that there are a lot of other smaller details that have been changed.
	And it's not just Christianity.
	I don't want to be hard on the Christians.
	It's every religion.
	I'm afraid my book, Messiahs, will probably get banned by every organized religion in the world.
	Because I've tried to be an equal opportunity even to the native peoples and just to look at this very... Would you say an equal opportunity skeptic or an equal opportunity debunker?
	An equal opportunity provoker of new thinking.
	Because those have charges, those labels, and my definition would not be yours.
	Has your book yet made it to Iran?
	You may be joining Salman Rushdie in a bunker somewhere.
	There are things worth writing and dying for.
	Are there?
	Yes.
	But I don't think that will happen.
	Well... But I'm ready.
	You're ready.
	If the Ayatollah were to give your book a read, not that he's around, but the equivalent thereof, what do you think they would say over there about you?
	All I can say is if you make me a martyr, you make my books sell even more.
	But if you're not around to collect the wealthies, what's the difference?
	Well, that's a whole issue that could cover a whole show.
	All I can say is that I'm very much aware that this is hurting a lot of people's feelings, but I contend that those feelings are borrowed.
	That we need, if we're going to make this new millennium a great millennium, we need to stop borrowing the last generation's thoughts, feelings, and borrowing them without investigating on our own.
	Unless that is broken, the cycle of misery that prophecy is, cannot be broken.
	I'm anti-prophetic.
	I work on prophecies, but basically the point is that I see, after thirty years of this, Let's try this out on you.
	man is born to take on borrowed knowledge identities and dogmas
	and it dooms them to repeat the miseries in the wars of the past in the future
	and we could get away with that till this new century we can't are too many of us and it's too much a globally
	interconnected society for this
	fossilized tradition and habit continue let's try this out on you you are one of
	the world's acknowledged experts if not the best on those problems
	Yes?
	Okay.
	That's what they say.
	That's what they say.
	Alright, so with regard to what Nostradamus prophesized, in what way do you think that he was able to discern these prophecies?
	Would you call that a miracle?
	Would you call that an artifact of an unusual living mind?
	Do you think he was genetically in some way different?
	What do you think?
	He thought he was, in our modern terms, genetically different.
	He said it was a hereditary gift that would die with him.
	Do you believe that?
	Well, it's interesting.
	Factually speaking, his son attempted to write prophecies.
	Probably was partially responsible for a bunch of forgeries called the Scythians, which were pretty bad prophecies.
	And, basically, it shows from his family line dying out that, at least factually, his prediction came true.
	It died with him.
	So, that's the facts.
	But again, with respect to Nostradamus himself?
	Well, after studying him for 30 years, I simply know from my own understanding that it seems that many of these prophecies do come true.
	The problem is trying to Kind of clean them of first Nostradamus' cultural filters, and then the interpreter's cultural filters.
	Yes.
	And in a way, my journey with Nostradamus has helped me kind of confront my own biases.
	Yes.
	See, that's where I was going.
	In other words, shouldn't you regard the prophecy of Nostradamus, anybody's interpretation, including your own, with the same modern, skeptical view As you do the world's religions.
	In every book art that I write I always put in the beginning a proviso for everybody to remember that I am just as filtered and biased and struggling with these things as everybody who is reading.
	I'm just sharing my insight.
	Now the thing is I can't say in my opinion ten thousand times on every sentence since it's a speculative work.
	So I put that in the beginning of my books and often even though I do come back and talk about the fact that this is how I see it, I have to trust and the responsibility of the reader, and I do think it's the responsibility of the reader to understand that, especially if I've said it in the beginning, that these books will ultimately reflect who John Hoge is and what he's after and how he's evolving with his own life.
	I contend that nobody on the planet Earth, as long as they have an ego, can be objective.
	Everyone has a filter of one thing or another.
	You know, your particular personal bias is to believe that Nostradamus had the power of prophecy.
	In my own bias and in my own examination, I'd say yes.
	I'll give you an example.
	I can hear the echoes out there of, aha, you know, all right, listen, we'll pick up on that when we come back.
	It's already the top of the hour, so stay right where you are.
	And we're going to talk about the prophecies of Nostradamus shortly.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from january 4th 2000
	a girl to hold in my arms and know the magic of her charms cause i want a girl to call my own
	i wanna dream lover so i don't have to dream alone oh
	Only in America can a guy from anywhere go to sleep for forever and wake up familiar heaven.
	Only in America can a kid without a set get a break and maybe grow up to be president.
	Only in America!
	A land of opportunity, yeah!
	Would a flashy girl like you fall for a poor boy like me?
	In America, can a kid who's washing cars Take a giant step and reach right up and talk?
	In America, you dream like this, don't you?
	You're listening to Ark Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
	I am getting some indication from some listeners that there has been an arrest in Seattle.
	You remember that shipyard shooting a while ago?
	Two dead, two injured.
	There's apparently breaking news in Seattle, which I would like to confirm, that a suspect has been arrested in that case, and if so, that is news.
	My guest is John Hoag and we're about to delve into the world of terrorism.
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	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that, and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials, and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Well, okay, once again, one of the world's great experts on Nostradamus, here is John
	And John, welcome back.
	I'm still alive, still here.
	Let's shift a little bit.
	And as you pointed out in the introduction you sent me to read, which I think for the most part did, if Y2K was a bust, or sort of a little tiny bug as compared to a big one, Then the threat of terrorism, and boy, the FBI was running around like crazy, and everybody was expecting the worst.
	They canceled stuff in Seattle.
	Other concerts and stuff were canceled.
	Everybody was scared to death, and not one thing that I know of occurred.
	Not one.
	Now, that fit in.
	Thank goodness.
	Well, thank goodness.
	Yeah, that's what I said about Y2K, too.
	Thank goodness.
	Does that fit in with prophecy, or is prophecy now in some doubt, or has it lost credibility?
	Has what Nostradamus predicted lost credibility?
	I mean, we had July, August, then finally to September, nada, nothing happened.
	We can now state conclusively since your last interview, so what about Nostradamus?
	Is he losing it?
	Well, what may be losing it is the popular interpretations of our times about Nostradamus.
	But first, before we get into that, one thing that people got to understand about what I do with prophecy, how I interpret it, is my understanding of prophecy is that it's there to warn us to do the right thing.
	There's two kinds of schools for prophets.
	Some people like to make prophecies just to be right.
	And that's all it's about for them.
	I'm not at that school.
	I'm about heeding these warnings so that we can avoid these things.
	We're supposed to make Nostradamus wrong.
	But see, nobody likes that.
	It's like Y2K.
	where we're going to go to go to the white it's like what you can
	prepared and
	they listened to the profits of doom with regard to what you can and when it
	did not happen like they were angry
	Yeah, I know, and I would say to those people, look inside and see what's going on there.
	What's this anti-life number going on there?
	The thing that I was... I was very happy when these things come and go.
	I'd like to think that the debate concerning our future, when it becomes So, pervasive might have in some way influenced our FBI and our security systems and everybody in general to be a little more self-reliant and prevent disasters.
	I'm all for prevention.
	I hate hindsight and successful prophecies.
	I hate it.
	I'd love to see everything that's dire in my books never happen.
	And the way to do that is to look at the warnings And to see what we can do today to make that not happen.
	I mean, it was a year before all this happened, around August of 1998, that I was invited by Unsolved Mysteries to come down to L.A.
	and tape this show with them.
	And I decided to do it because what I thought would be good, and it had a lot to do with Y2K, even though mine was more specifically about Nostradamus and what is still yet to come, which is with the weather and all that.
	The thing I reasoned was that it's important to do these shows, even if, as usual, the mainstream TV gets it all wrong and puts you out of context and all of that, but the important thing that made me want to do it was, okay, let's get this into the public eye.
	Let's get people thinking about it on a mass level, because what I hope will happen is The dire disasters of Y2K will be prevented because, and look, three hundred billion dollars later and all the preparations, people heeded the warnings.
	I consider the Y2K humbug as being the great prophetic success story.
	And I'm hopeful.
	It really is.
	Yeah.
	It really is.
	I'm hopeful that we'll do the same with terrorism.
	What happened with terrorism with regard to the millennium?
	I mean, surely A bunch of terrorists had to be planning bad, nasty stuff to coincide with the Millennium Change.
	Well, we've had 16 arrests so far.
	I think there was one just a few hours ago.
	It seems that, perhaps, because people were warned, people were extra vigilant in our agencies, and it looks like we might have broken up that attempt.
	Oh, our FBI has been really good at that.
	They really have had, you know, I give them a lot of raps on a lot of A lot of areas.
	I've done that over the years.
	But I'll tell you, the FBI really has done a bang-up job.
	Well, I'd like to congratulate them on your show.
	I think they keep on going, guys.
	And the other thing that's so important is we've got to remain ever-vigilant.
	The prophecies, as I understand them, not only with Nostradamus and with others, looks at 1999 July as the beginning of a 27 to 30 year period where we have to be extra vigilant about terrorists.
	Ah, but what would the FBI do about the King of Terror?
	Well, the King of Terror is...
	A very interesting statement.
	One thing I've been trying to say to people is that it could be about the Third Antichrist, who is a terrorist, but it's also important to leave the door open for it to be something else.
	That says it must be related to the famous Mabus anagram, or the other strange coded word, Rapaz, which is the weapon of the Antichrist.
	The third Antichrist.
	First off, Nostradamus saw three Antichrists.
	The first he called Napolenoir, Napoleon King.
	The second he called Hister, Hitler.
	The third he called Well, we don't really know.
	We think it's Alaston Wiener or Mabus, and we can get more details about that later.
	But the thing that I started saying years ago, I think I even said it on a few shows with you in the past, I always felt that I would know personally, from my own prophetic issues, what the King of Terror was when July came and went.
	And even though I had to acknowledge as a scholar some of the forebodings about that, Oh, really?
	and some terrorist event descending from the skies.
	I must say in my own instincts I felt it was going to be something else.
	So I came forth at the end of July for the Seattle Times and for some other articles
	and put it on a record that I think the king of terror descending from our skies for the
	next 30 years is global warming.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	Global warming.
	Oh, you just struck a dagger right through the heart of what I've been working on for
	some time now, as I guess you know.
	Yes.
	I figured it might.
	But I am convinced, and I put my prophetic interpretive authority on it, that we are at the beginning of a 30-year window for our greatest enemy.
	Perhaps, it's not an anti-Christ, but it's anti-consciousness.
	It's the traditions of waste that we could get away with until the 21st century.
	But now we're faced with the payback day, where the terror is our own pollution descending from the skies, heating up the atmosphere, creating these immense storms.
	Which, I think in our last show together, I talked to you about Anton Johansson, who was a Swedish prophet who lived in Denmark, in the northern Norwegian fjord.
	Yes.
	And he has some very interesting prophecies concerning hurricane-force storms hitting Europe.
	And I might, if I can, read those quotes that I read on your show last time again, because I think they mean... Go right ahead.
	Yes, they have much more pertinence to what's happening in Scotland.
	Yeah, sure, sure.
	Here we go.
	He said, and this is 1918 when this man wrote this, he said, an unheard of hurricane raging over two continents.
	I was led in spirit to the great cities on England's east coast.
	I saw ships thrown on shore, many collapsed buildings, and much wreckage floating on water.
	At sea, many ships were wrecked.
	Then I was shown Holland, Belgium, and the German coast of the North Sea, which all were heavily visited by storm and flood.
	Among the most afflicted cities, I heard the names of Antwerp, Hamburg mentioned.
	Even Denmark's western and northern coast and Sweden's western coast had suffered.
	Thunderstorms, too, will in those years be devastating and will occur in Denmark, North Germany, and Sweden.
	And, you know, these are just some of the collective prophecies that I have listed in 1000 for 2000 under the chapter, Hot House Hurricanes.
	Wow.
	It's happening.
	Yes.
	It's happening now.
	I've been saying for years that we would begin to see it as a mass media acknowledgement by 98, 99.
	And that we begin to see the droughts that Nostradamus talked about at the climetric of 48 degrees latitude.
	That's basically a couple famous prophecies of his saying that on this latitude there'd be a tremendous drought.
	And we're seeing signs of that as a symptom of what happens in the central continental grain fields of Europe, Asia, and America, North America, at this latitude.
	Where most of our grain belts in the Northern Hemisphere are.
	And that, of course, triggers some other rather dire warnings that we have to prevent.
	And that are the prophecies about a global famine that could happen.
	Some of the astrological prophecies show the next windows to be after 2010.
	Primarily in the 2020s and 30s.
	We have to stop these.
	We have to make Nostradamus wrong.
	Or at least this interpretation.
	And one need not use Nostradamus or any prophet to see that there's something very, very strange and runaway and out of control about our climate.
	Well, there's no question about it.
	I don't even think anybody's arguing anymore.
	The top meteorological person in the US and Britain, they both made a statement saying that climate change is now accelerating And that they believe firmly it's man's hand that is aiding this change, not necessarily the cause of it, but accelerating the change.
	Well, years ago I said that they would eventually stop calling El Nino and La Nina just these climatic events as just little quirks that happen naturally.
	I've always stated in my books and on shows that These are symptoms that will not go away.
	They are symptoms of a bigger problem called global warming.
	And now, finally, it seems that even that is... there's less and less people that are going to just tag El Nino La Nina every year on things.
	Sure.
	So, people are seeing it.
	That's positive.
	I try to find the positive out of this.
	So, it's almost like... it's a climatic version of Pearl Harbor.
	Now, the bombs have fallen on Hawaii.
	It's time for everybody to come together What you're talking about, though, is really the New World Order.
	Because short of that, there's no way.
	the way we use resources, the way we breed and overpopulate the range of the human condition.
	We need to really now look at the things that mean. We're all going to make some changes.
	What you're talking about, though, is really the new world order.
	Because short of that, there is no way.
	I mean, look around the world, John.
	It's nation after nation after nation, second and third world nations.
	And, brother, they want what we've got.
	They want big color TV.
	They want a car, maybe even two.
	They want everything that we've got.
	I mean, all the comforts of modern civilization as demonstrated in the movies that we export like crazy all over the world.
	Everybody wants this stuff.
	And if they get it, we're dead meat.
	So, in a way, there's a simple choice in all of this.
	It is not that hard and abstract for people to see, if they're willing to open their eyes, that all of us, poor nations and wealthy nations, have to come together and face global problems with a global solution.
	And we all have to make the management of our economies And ourselves, in a way that makes it profitable for us to continue to wealth.
	We have to continue making people more comfortable and wealthy.
	We have to find ways to do it that's not going to destroy the future for our children and our grandchildren.
	We are destroying it.
	Okay, so part of that is going to have to be population control.
	Yes.
	One segment.
	I mean, we can talk about one thing at a time here.
	Population control, right?
	Well, you started with the key problem.
	There are too many of us.
	I would say that we have to seriously consider single-child families for the entire planet, not just China.
	Mandatory?
	Like China?
	If people can understand that this sacrifice is needed so that your children can have a future, yes.
	To hope we don't have to make it a law.
	This is the home of the free, land of the brave.
	The Constitution Bill of Rights.
	I know, but if your Bill of Rights, it'll be the home of the dead, by the dead and from the dead, because it will cause wars in the 2020s with the same people in the future.
	If there's 2 billion more people on this planet, there are prophecies that are waiting to be fulfilled that will show that Armageddon came not because of what was going on in the Middle East, but because Everybody's running out of water and food.
	Oh, gosh, John.
	There's going to be 2 billion people more on the planet very quickly.
	In fact, 11 years will be 7, and another 11, another, it will be 8.
	8 billion more.
	So then, you're suggesting that just 2 billion more and the prophecies, the dire prophecies, begin to unwind.
	Well, yes, unfortunately, so I'm hopeful.
	I don't believe in abolishing rights.
	I'm an American, I love my Bill of Rights, but I'm afraid that if people don't make these choices, like personally what I did, when I lived in India and saw where it was going, I lived there for the bulk of the late 80s, my reaction, my response to overpopulation was to get myself sterilized.
	I will never have children.
	If I want to have children, I will adopt the already swelling numbers of children in the world.
	Well, you're walking the walk, that's fine.
	I am walking the walk.
	I think it's only fair that I should if I'm going to make these strong statements.
	After making statements like that, there shouldn't be any more of him!
	Well, you get your wish.
	I'm glad to give you that gift, all of you.
	I'm just speaking for some of them out there.
	I know what they're saying.
	That's fine.
	I get the emails, too.
	But you see, to get to where there is mandatory population control, You're going to have to have a centralized control, a centralized government, and you know what that means?
	Well, what it means is that there are certain destinies that we just have to face, even if we don't want to face them.
	There's a certain direction that the human race is going that is just forcing it on us to take the challenge of having a global society.
	And whether one wants it or not... It's gotta be.
	It's gonna be, or we're not, is what you're saying.
	Yeah, so it will happen.
	So we either accept the New World Order, I hate to call it that because I know all the baggage that comes along with it, but we either accept that, or we die.
	Just have to make the New World Order the right one.
	All right.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from January 4, 2000.
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	The concert will be held at the San Francisco Center in San Francisco, California, on January
	4, 2000.
	Thank you.
	you.
	I'll be fine when you go.
	I'll just cry all night long.
	Say it is all true.
	And don't admit my brown eyes Tell me no secrets, tell me some lies
	Give me no reason, give me a goodbye Tell me you love me and don't let me cry
	Say anything, but don't say goodbye I didn't mean to teach you bad
	Didn't know Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 4th, 2000.
	Ah, the voice of an angel, huh?
	Good morning, everybody.
	John Hoag is here.
	Probably making people angry all over the place, but that's all right.
	Most of you can handle it, but not one.
	I've got one here that can't handle it, and I'll read it to you in a second here.
	I love piano.
	I just love piano.
	Anyway, we'll be right back.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	See, I think there are more secrets out there.
	I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
	You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
	That's what I think is happening.
	I don't think that they're stupid people.
	I think they have a different agenda than we do.
	now we take you back to the night of january fourth two thousand
	on our film somewhere in time
	alright john hoag is here and uh... this is just a little bit of a flashback but
	uh... you know the faxes tend to reflect what occurred about an hour ago
	Somebody, John, writes, Dior, just tuned in, and then I turned off your guests, because I don't like to listen to an ignorant person gossip as an authority on such an important matter, and you, Art, need to become much better informed, so you don't have to wonder about Jesus as the Son of God.
	Well, see, I knew I could have written that myself.
	I knew that was coming.
	It's too bad for people who are in that point of view about me.
	It just doesn't work with me.
	My awareness tells me that if I get angry at stuff like this, I give my power away.
	When people get all flustered like that, are they really thinking straight?
	Are they really considering what I'm saying?
	They're reacting to a challenge to their faith and belief system.
	It's a strange thing because if people are I'm 100% sure of their beliefs.
	How can somebody like me, a gossip, a dilettante, name all the things we can't even say on radio that people are saying or thinking right now.
	A worm.
	A worm, a bad guy, all of that.
	Snake spit.
	I just laugh.
	Some of the emails I get, I just laugh.
	I thank these people because in my meditation They keep showing me if I'm still identified or attached to people liking me or not liking me.
	It's all so irrelevant in the eternity of things.
	What's important to me is the truth as I experience it.
	Sometimes when my truth rubs up against other people, It indicates that maybe I'm getting somewhere with it, if I'm disturbing people a lot.
	But that's another way to look at it.
	You could say, and this man may be right, maybe I'm a dilettante and a fool and a jerk and an irresponsible person.
	Okay, that's fine.
	The other side I would add is that maybe I'm saying something that's shaking a lot of people's slumbers.
	You are.
	You are.
	Now, if you think you're shaking them now, when you begin talking about this new world Order, for lack of a better phrase, that's what George Bush called it.
	I look at George Bush Jr., and every time I see his face, I think, New World Order.
	I mean, it's all over him somehow.
	And it's getting close to a prediction I made.
	In 1000, 2000, it may actually happen.
	It seems like, I said we might have another Bush and Dole.
	uh... in the two thousand elections and uh... it'll be interesting to see if uh... elizabeth dole is his vice presidential running mate well you've got to imagine it's possible a woman as vice president would be good elizabeth is strong not like a previous woman and uh... uh... she'd bring the female side of the vote along yeah i mean i can i can see it would might work it's also important to understand that uh...
	I've often felt, at least in my prediction about it, and I've been making presidential predictions since 1968, that the next president would choose a vice president who was a woman, but unfortunately the next president, whoever it may be, will have to get through that difficult Issue with the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction that happens every twenty years, where we usually, since 1820, have lost a president in office, except for Ronald Reagan.
	He was shot.
	Well, hopefully, or died, like William G. Harding died, he was elected in 1920, he died of a heart attack.
	Or shot, or accidents, or if they survive, the That election period, they usually die in their second term.
	Now, hopefully, fortunately, Ronald Reagan made that wrong, but he made it wrong because it was the only time in recorded history, future and past in our country, that this transit of these planets took place in an air sign.
	And what that means, getting down to earth through layman's terms, is that it was a very light aspect.
	But even then, Ronald Reagan squeaked by just by a few blood drops.
	It was very close.
	Very close.
	Getting back, though, to population, which is really, really, I agree, the core issue.
	To cut down the population, you would have to restrict people to one child, and maybe some people to no children.
	Well, I would probably give incentives for people, rather than to enlarge their families, I would give more incentives for people to shorten, to lower the size of their families.
	The other side of it, too, is that First World nations may have to start before the Third World because, as World Watch has reported, one American child will consume 150 Indian children's worth of the energy of the world.
	So if anything, Americans should be the first ones doing single children.
	But Americans are very libertarian, very stubborn.
	And you trust me, you told me you can't have but one child, and you're going to have a gunfight.
	That's true.
	That could happen, but the other side of it is that in 20, 30 years, the rest of the world, there's prospects that might see us boycotted by the rest of the world as criminals against humanity because we're continuing to waste the resources.
	They already say that, really.
	But I mean, you're saying it, but I'm saying in 20 years from now.
	It doesn't take a profit to see where America may be boycotted by the rest of the world because the rest of the world is trying to sort out its issues and America doesn't want to.
	I am hopeful that we as Americans, since we have been the leaders in the 20th century of so many wonderful things, that we will be the leaders of taking the world still into a prosperity, but a prosperity that's not going to destroy the future for our kids.
	And the way we're wasting 4% of the Earth's population is using 25% of the Earth's resources and making 25% of the global warming?
	Can't go on.
	We're the criminals here.
	I'm sorry.
	I know it's a hard thing to say, but it's something that every American needs to look at.
	And we're creative people.
	We'll find a way to keep this prosperity going.
	We're just going to have to look at some changes.
	But you don't see that way yet, do you?
	Unfortunately, the way things work in prophecy, since I said earlier, a few hours ago, that prophecy, as I understand it, works because we keep taking our tender brains of our children and putting certain unconscious programs into them, which make them repeat the mistakes that we made in the past.
	With that in mind, as the engine, if you will, that motivates prediction being successful, because we're predictable, made predictable, is that we We are basically running into the same issue that happened in the 1930s, when there were dangers.
	This new decade is going to be a lot like the 1930s in prophecy, and I'll tell you why.
	In the 30s they could see the dangers coming in the 40s, but they kept their heads in the sand.
	And then Hitler got strong, and then they had to deal with him the following decade, and 50 to 60 million people died.
	That's right.
	Now, we are in a similar situation, not with a Hitler, but with our own traditional stupidities.
	Threatening sustainability of our civilization all over the world.
	The warnings for the uh-oh decade, or what I like to call, and what the man who wrote The Fourth Turning named Strauss called, the uh-oh decade.
	We need to go uh-oh.
	It actually needs to be the uh-ohs.
	Yeah, the uh-oh.
	It's like we've got another decade to change the course of this and make these interpretations wrong, and I sincerely hope That we can galvanize our country and our leadership to lead the world into even more prosperity and millennialism.
	There's not even a hint of it going on right now.
	No, unfortunately what's going to have to... I'm afraid what we're going to do is what we did in the 30s.
	We're going to get into the teens and things are going to start coming unglued and then we'll have to, rather than prevent, we'll have to do the old unconscious habit of human history.
	Cure.
	And it's because we've been programmed not to prevent.
	We are always programmed to cure.
	And I talk about that issue at length in my book, Messiahs.
	It's really a source of... we're programmed by what I call propaganda.
	And that is that both Eastern and Western religious traditions essentially, generally, believe that the world is a negative place.
	It has to either be... you get yourself enlightened and leave it, The births and rebirths, if you are from the East, or you have your one life here and you are judged in the end of the world, which has to happen first.
	Messiah comes, the world is nearly destroyed, and then the Messiah lives for a thousand years, and then there's a second judgment and the end of the world.
	There's also a similar thing of a thousand year rule of a Messiah called the King of Shambalah.
	In the Eastern traditions, too.
	So they have very similar traditions.
	All right.
	Going back for a second to the subject of Messiahs and religion.
	Religion is control.
	You agree with that?
	Dogma, yes.
	Dogma?
	All right, fine.
	Dogma.
	Religious dogma is control.
	In other words, basically it says to you, if you're a bad person, you're going to be shoveling coal into the big fires down there.
	Or if you're in the East, you're going to live life after life for eternity and never get out of it.
	In other words, whatever hell awaits you if you're a bad person.
	And the Earth is a sinful place.
	Right.
	And so it's control, right?
	It keeps the masses from doing what they would otherwise do.
	It is adjusted.
	Well, if you are for thousands of years telling people that the place that you live in is anti-life and a bad place, Don't you think that after a while people would get that ingrained in very subtle ways?
	And if there is a messianic prophetic tradition from both East and West that says the world has to be nearly destroyed and get really in a lot of trouble before a Savior comes to save us from ourselves, don't you think we might actually be subconsciously, collectively creating that prophecy?
	Yes.
	Making it happen.
	I've wondered about that a lot.
	This making it happen I call a new phrase, Armageddonomics.
	The economics of making doomsday and the collapse of the world happen.
	Now, the problem with it is that you have a 50-50 chance that once a third of the world's been destroyed, as the book of Revelation says, in all of waters, animals, whatnot, people, that you might, in the smoke of that post-apocalyptic time, you have a 50-50 chance that you misinterpret your signs and nobody's coming to save you from yourself.
	Now, at the same time, there's another set of prophets that have not been respected by the mainstreams of any of their eras that I've also spent three trips around the world to collect to show people that there was an alternative to this.
	And it could very well be that what is messianic coming in the future is not some paternal figure.
	But a mass phenomenon of individuals taking their divine responsibility back from their dogmatic religions and being responsible for their own messianic divinity.
	That if God's in your heart, you don't need a person to save you from yourself, you just need to get into your heart.
	And it may very well be, there's prophecies that show this is kind of a Christ-celebratory booth.
	Yeah, but, but, but, but, but, here's where I was going to go a minute ago.
	You agreed that it is, that religion is a kind of a control, and in recent decades in this country, there has been a decline in attendance in church and so forth and so on.
	There has also been an increase In a lot of senseless killing, children killing children, societal ills that you just shake your head at, people blowing up people, so forth and so on.
	A lot of that going on, and it would be suggested that the missing factor, the God factor, is contributing to this, you know, sort of, I don't value life attitude on the part of the people who commit these crimes.
	And if they don't value their own life, they sure as hell don't care much about yours.
	That is usually what happens in great cycles of century, and I have in Messiah's quotes about that.
	That happens as a symptom of an end of a cycle where everything has its life span, you could say.
	So do religions.
	And when a religion has gotten old and is in old age, Yes.
	These things happen.
	The fall of the Roman Empire was a great example of this happening once before, 20 centuries ago.
	Things were coming unglued.
	It was probably as bad then as it is today.
	The difference is there were only 200 million people on the planet when Rome fell.
	There are now 6 billion of us, so that magnifies what's going on.
	Our technologies also magnify it.
	But there was murder.
	There's always been murder and war and stuff like this going on.
	So then, by extension, does that mean we need a new religion?
	Well, what is happening is, yes, new religious movements are coming up.
	New ideas are happening.
	It's all around us.
	And, of course, the established religions, as they did 20 centuries ago, as they did in Hinduism when Buddha came on the scene, and so forth, are threatened.
	What do you imagine a new religion that might have success In bringing social behavior back into line again, might be?
	Well, as I understand it, it will be a religion that brings responsibility for your divine nature back to yourself, and doesn't blame it or put it on anybody else's shoulders.
	And it will be a more scientifically based religion, because the Aquarian age, in predictive astrology, is an age of science.
	It's not an age of faith.
	The last 20 centuries, we evolved through the age of faith, where you believe and trust without knowing.
	The Aquarian age, a lot of the prophecies show that a century from now, many of the religions we have today won't, even if they have the same names, will not be recognizable.
	See, maybe we'll begin to worship geneticists.
	Well, we will have to, because of genetics, we will have to find out what consciousness is, because when we can make virtual realities in less than 50 years that are equal to this reality, when we can design our own bodies, the responsibility of divinity becomes even greater.
	And the great debate at the end of this century will be about if we're going to do what we used to think God did, we have to have the love and compassion and awareness of God.
	That is an issue that's going to be a big one.
	I'll tell you, the technology is getting here a lot faster than that kind of change.
	I know.
	So there's going to be some disruptions.
	There's going to be some great challenges coming.
	But if we face the challenges right, we will find a higher morality.
	And we are definitely in the period of an age coming to an end, an age beginning.
	And it is going to be tough for people, as the Hopis say about this purification time, they call it.
	And all of their final warnings have been fulfilled, including the manufacture of the permanent teepee in the sky.
	Yeah, but save yesterday's stock market performance, which was horrendous.
	Things have never been better, and people don't look that far ahead.
	I mean, God, it's great!
	The market was over $11,000, may well go there again.
	The economy seems endlessly wonderful.
	It looks like the Belle Epoque, doesn't it?
	Yeah.
	It's the 1900s all over again.
	Oh!
	And there were warnings.
	And what did the people do?
	They just kept their heads in the sand, and just got into their personal numbers, and then World War I in four years changed a thousand years of European history, propelled them into Bolshevism and Fascism, and then we had to sort that one out with another 50 million dead in World War I. So sort of the kind of change you're talking about, you think we're facing the same thing again, all over again?
	Yes.
	Because we're programmed to repeat the past and call it the future.
	And we have to break the programming.
	I have to break the programming here.
	Okay, hold on.
	We're going to go to the phones when we get back.
	Which really, really should be interesting.
	I'm sure you don't want to miss it.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
	He was a Prince of Ice, and he could sing for his heart and every life
	Marley sang of the joy and pain, he opened up our minds, and I still can hear him say
	Talk to me, don't you change me, what's going on?
	If you could read my mind, love, what a tale my thoughts could tell
	Just like an old time movie About a ghost from a wishing well In a castle dark Or a fortress strong With chains upon my feet You know that ghost is me And I will never be set free As long as I'm a ghost you can't see If I could read your mind, love What a tale your thoughts could tell Just like a paperback novel
	the kind the drugstore sells when you reach the part
	where the heartaches come the hero would be me
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired January 4, 2000 Well I'll tell you, I interviewed Gordon Lightfoot
	the man you're listening to right now and I don't know if you happened to catch that interview
	but it was remarkable Absolutely remarkable.
	I mean, all of a sudden you understood what you did not understand previously about the words to his songs.
	He was very frank.
	Brutally frank.
	It was really interesting.
	Anyway, we've got John Hoge here and he's causing lots of trouble and we'll get back to that in a moment.
	Thanks for watching.
	link, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
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	That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	My board operator in Columbus, Missouri at KFRU
	writes, Art,
	the Antichrist is OSHA.
	the world.
	They're going to mandate a smoke-free environment for all Clear Channel J-Corp employees that work at home.
	Over my dead body.
	To which I hear a lot of you replying, yes, very soon.
	All right.
	Once again, here is John Hoag and the rock-tossing caller.
	You may remove your rocks from the holster and proceed.
	Joy.
	Well, so we're all back then?
	Oh, yes.
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	I'll try to touch on a couple other things and then we'll talk about Nostradamus and I'll leave you alone.
	Okay.
	Sound almost reasonable?
	I have other reasons besides just physical facts, but I can give you some information if you want it.
	Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that the Old Testament hasn't changed substantially in the last 2,000 years, so it would be kind of arrogant to assume the New Testament has.
	Well, what about the inflections?
	You know, let's say you're right.
	Let's say you have the actual scriptures, but do you have the pauses that Jesus gave?
	You have the moments of silence and the inflections.
	Without those, dead words can be applied in all kinds of ways.
	So even then, it's not enough for me.
	That's okay.
	I have more.
	But even then, Jesus didn't speak so that everybody was supposed to be confused all the time.
	Most of the Bible was intended to be understood.
	You're assuming that.
	I am, and you know what, if it's an assumption I have to live with, then I will.
	I understand.
	There was a lot of... the Jews were ridiculously meticulous about transcription.
	I won't get into too much of it, but they threw away the whole page if they made one mistake, and they bathed every time they mentioned God's name.
	Oh yes, I know, but are you aware that a lot of apocalyptic literature has... I've had Jewish scholars tell me that A lot of it is based on Zoroastrian ideas of an Armageddon experience.
	Some of the older books in the Bible may actually be from even older books, like pre-Diluvian stuff even, at least contain references to that stuff.
	I mean there's truth in all kinds of places.
	If all religions Didn't contain some amount of truth, no one would pay attention to them.
	Well, they do.
	This we can agree on, but I'm saying that you're just... the dogma just holds fragments of it.
	It does not hold the inflections.
	You weren't there in the life of Jesus.
	You weren't there walking with Him, talking with Him.
	No, I wasn't.
	And, you know, it could very well be that, let's say, yes, that's all true what happened, but I've seen With the frailties of human beings that lets, I've seen living mystics in this time die and have their teachings immediately get altered and changed and politicized.
	It's been stated that Buddha when he died that all his disciples split into 32 sects.
	There were 31 versions of the Quran around when Muhammad died.
	Which one was the right one, and which one did they burn?
	Caller, I've got a quick question for you.
	Go.
	Wasn't there something about, there shall not be any other gods before me?
	Absolutely.
	Well, if you really said that, doesn't that mean there's other gods?
	Um, well, I don't know.
	Do you consider wooden idols a god?
	No, I've got, in other words, I'm using the literal words.
	Hello?
	Why does God have to give me a response now?
	Okay, we'll think about it.
	Anyway, you had a question about Nostradamus?
	Yeah, well, okay, moving on.
	Are you at least familiar with, and I haven't bumped into a lot of people that know about this, but I saw it on the History Channel, the business of what the Allies did.
	Before we got involved in the World War II?
	DeWolfe and Karl Ernst Kraft.
	Yes, Karl Ernst Kraft was the Nazi astrologer, Swiss-German fellow who worked for Garibaldi.
	There are about six entries in Garibaldi's diaries about using Nostradamus as propaganda, and Louis DeWolfe was Churchill's counter-propagandist.
	The irony about it is that the first fellow from the German side was actually sincere about it.
	The other man wasn't so sincere.
	And it could very well be that Nostradamus' warning to his countrymen was used against them in World War II.
	A good argument for why he was so obscure.
	So that wouldn't have happened.
	Well, I'm not sure if we're actually talking about the same thing, but that the Allies, knowing that Goebbels was very fond of astrology, and Nostradamus assumed that Hitler was, and modified some of Nostradamus' prophecies, and distributed 20,000 copies in Germany.
	Modified prophecies, are you familiar with those?
	Yeah, and Hitler was not a big lover of astrology, and Goebbels, if you read his diaries, will tell you that he says, I don't believe in much of this, but I know the French just love this stuff, I'm paraphrasing, but essentially this is what he said.
	You know, his wife was into it, and he just thought it would be a great device for propaganda.
	He personally thought it was bunk.
	Well, okay, but... You've got to read these... Now, this isn't a fragment of some scripture.
	This is Gerbil's stuff.
	It's right there for you to read.
	I don't have a problem with Gerbil liking or not liking astrology.
	I just wondered if you were aware that The Allies had changed some of them and distributed a portion of material to anti-Hitler stuff.
	Well, as I said, if you had read my six books on Nostradamus, you would know that I've spoken extensively about this.
	And I'd certainly be more interested in your criticisms if you had actually read my works.
	It's obvious that you haven't.
	However, for propaganda purposes, it is so.
	Well, yes, as I said, Louis de Waal and another bank of people for Churchill's side were actually producing erroneous Nostradamus quatrains, and the fellow on the German side that was doing them for Goebbels actually was a very gifted astrologer and did make some documented predictions using Nostradamus that came true.
	His problem was that he couldn't find Hitler winning the war, and he had enough Honesty about it, to really be frustrated by this, because he was pro-Nazi, and he didn't like that he couldn't find Hitler winning the war.
	The irony is that Churchill, on the side that did win the war, were just making things up.
	He was really trying to find whether Hitler was going to win, and when he didn't, he had a nervous breakdown.
	He was also one of the victims of the great purge of occultists that took place after Rudolf Hess flew to England to make peace on his own.
	foolish and and uh... basically that was the most the cold oriented of the
	hierarchy of the nazis so uh...
	craft was uh... the german not saddam a scholar was put in jail we continue to
	write pamphlets but by forty three he was being shipped book
	involved where he died on the way of typhus
	very tragic story and if you'd live at that time you'd you'd have been on the
	same same marigold
	No.
	I don't.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hogue.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Josh from St.
	Charles.
	Hi, Josh.
	I'm an ex-Christian, so I'm an ally of his.
	Was that an ex-Christian?
	I don't have allies.
	Don't assume you're my ally.
	I'm a scientist, too, so I'll probably be going to that big fiery pit with you.
	Oh well, you know the nice thing about the fiery pit, there was this wonderful story I heard from a guru named Osho in India.
	He was like saying...
	You know, I'd rather go to hell, he said, because there I will find all the wonderful people like Socrates and Pythagoras and all the great artists and all the great people who lived life passionately, maybe overly passionately.
	They'll be very colorful, interesting people.
	And he thought, you know, with time, he felt that he could probably, all those people would probably convince the devil to make their place even better than heaven so that people would be bored and want to go down there and have some fun.
	Yeah, you know, like heck, you could probably go see Nostradamus down there and say, hey, you were right!
	You know, when I look at all the people who want to go to heaven, all the saints, imagine sitting with a bunch of saints who drank bread and water and and starve themselves and flagellated themselves and all
	that.
	I've wondered about that a lot. I don't want to be there.
	So I get back to that place where I'm standing naked with everybody else at the end of time.
	I think I'd volunteer to go to hell because there's more of a chance that
	something can happen because, I don't know, sinning people, people who are human, people who make
	mistakes, people who aren't so perfect, my kind of people.
	Well, you may get your wish.
	Wait, hold on. I hope so.
	Well, what I want to say is, I agree with you on this whole thing because, well for one thing, I've actually seen, I admit, I've seen a couple visions, I have seen a whole bunch of visions over my life and youth, specifically involving this end of the world scenario.
	And the most reoccurring thing in the visions is, the cause is simple, stupidity.
	That is the cause.
	I agree with you.
	That's why we've got to stop it from happening.
	All right.
	Well, I don't necessarily disagree with that.
	There's a lot of stupidity going on.
	Real, real stupidity.
	Serious, world-ending stupidity.
	You know what's wonderful, Art, about the thing that happened in the millennium?
	You know, everybody was... the shadow of terrorism was hanging around us, but you know, that was the first time in history that we had this huge party, this huge positive celebration.
	And even though you...
	I think it was almost as close as you're going to see to a miracle on earth.
	oh absolutely and i think that that celebration that energy not only uh... you know uh... added to extra vigilance
	a greater mass celebration of life on earth i think it's made it too hard for terrorists to drop bombs
	i i think it was
	almost as close as you're going to see to a miracle honor that
	two thousand came and went without a terrorist action in fact uh...
	the terrorism that was going on uh... that that that people got released on
	the airplane and uh... all that got cured It was just amazing to go through the Millennium Change without one act of terrorism.
	What are the odds against that?
	They were huge, and I was so hoping it would happen, hoping against hope.
	But you know, it sort of fulfills some of these prophecies about this Christ-field or Buddha-field idea that may be the real messianic experience coming in the next century.
	It's people being positive and aware and loving and celebrating life that creates a collective force in our natures as a race that makes it somehow harder for people who are in life negativity who want to hurt people to do anything.
	It is worthy of consideration.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Andre.
	I don't know if you remember me.
	I sent you a CD that I made on Nostradamus.
	I remember you, Andre.
	Okay, and you flattered me ultimately when you read Little Encantation.
	You opened your birthday show with it.
	Yes.
	Something about A Thousand Fleas.
	Anyhow, John, it's a pleasure to speak with you.
	Your books were very instrumental in me wanting to get into it.
	I'm not really a professional.
	I guess you'd call me a Nostradilatant.
	Well, I started as one, too, so it's where one starts.
	But at any rate, this Anglemois character really got me going.
	I mean, I took that word apart inside out.
	I anagrammed it inside out.
	I came up with 175 different things that actually made sense, aside from the fact that Mongols is easily deciphered out of it. I came up with
	another anagram it spells Suleiman and when I did some more research and I
	mean I poured through books and books and books trying to put something else together
	trying to find other clues in the word I found out that the ancient word for Angora was Angola
	long before the Portuguese ever went down into Africa like when they had the silk routes and stuff
	like way back before the middle ages even.
	And so I seem to think that it's somebody from that's going to be from Turkey that might come
	out as opposed to somebody from the far far east like a Mongol like a Genghis Khan or something
	because Suleiman was called the Magnificent.
	And I was wondering what you thought about that.
	And then I tried to place the time of it for the seventh month, because he's kind of obscure.
	I noticed in Nostradamus, he leaves, in that particular quatrain, he left the word and out.
	He doesn't say, like, 1999.
	and seven months, he just says seven months.
	So it makes you wonder, well, something might happen for seven months from this guy.
	I'm wondering about these con trails and chem trails.
	Like, I'm up in Reno here.
	When I was in LA, I couldn't see it, but I've been seeing them spray in patterns.
	I mean, I've been taking a log now for like two months.
	Okay, well, before we go too far, let's catch a few of your many interesting comments.
	Yeah, I mean, the 1999, seven months.
	It's very jerky in a classic Nostradamus ellipsis game where he drops all important linking words.
	It leaves it open to interpretation.
	I've pulled my hair out for 20 years dealing with that.
	So, it does leave it open.
	It's a very interesting interpretation about Suleiman.
	It's important for people to understand that Nostradamus, when he talks about the East, there's a good chance he's also talking about the Near East, because his prophecies, as far as his remote viewing is concerned, get more and more detailed the closer you get to Southern France.
	They get more vague and less numerous when you go beyond.
	That is something to consider.
	It's a real mind field to try to untangle Nostradamus.
	The only way I deal with tiptoeing through that mind field without my interpretations boiling up in my face too many times, although they do anyway, is I had to spend some time to do as best a job as I could to get into the head.
	of Nostradamus.
	Look at his astrology, I had to look at the world he lived in, the things that were available, the kind of French that he would speak.
	I had to assume that just because I'm English doesn't mean that he was that interested in English variations of anything.
	He was very Gaelic.
	He saw the world through French.
	And so I had to get into French reality, French history, the whole thing.
	My theory is that you have to really get rooted into his biases, get into his cadences of his weird language.
	You've got to turn over every one of those 36,200 words of his prophecies again and again and again and see them in all the variations.
	But also at a certain point you just really get lost in anything there and ultimately the higher chances you get kind of caught in your own You're fluttering around in the flypaper of his obscurity.
	Let me try this.
	I mean, you were sort of toying with him with this anagram thing.
	Yeah.
	Let me get your reaction to the Bible code.
	I mean, how much difference is there really between toying with anagrams and the science of the Bible code?
	Or do you... Well, there is a big difference.
	There is a big difference because...
	In the volume of words in Nostradamus, a handful of them are anagrams.
	About 100 out of 36,000, not a lot of words.
	So there's a lot of other words that you can use.
	It's not purely fixed in one kind of idea as the Bible code is, which is a variation.
	I've seen books like Theomantics and others where people have taken the ancient words, which all have numbers represented behind the letters, And kind of spell it out mathematically, I've seen, I have in my position in my library, several attempts at this in the past, the Bible Code being the most recent.
	Alright.
	This is what I would pose to the author of the Bible Code.
	Alright, hold it right there, we'll pick up on that after the bottom of the hour.
	Just curious, playing with words, playing with numbers, is it all that different, really?
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from January 4th, 2000.
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	Oh, forget-a-good You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier
	Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from January 4th, 2000.
	From a factor, the following hope is a dichotomy that condemns apocalyptic Christians, yet believes we are headed for an apocalypse if we don't curb population growth and natural resource consumption.
	A dichotomy, huh?
	We'll ask.
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	visit coast to coast am.com to see well I'm not sure John is a dichotomy really
	Not when you really rip this apart a little bit.
	It says you condemn apocalyptic Christians, yet believe we're headed for apocalypse if we don't curb population growth and natural resource consumption.
	Not really.
	Well, for a start, I really liked that observation.
	I thought, because it gives me an opportunity to say something that I remember Walt Whitman once made the statement in one of his poems that I'm big enough to contain all contradictions.
	I think that is part of the human potential of all of us.
	The more universal one becomes, of course, it just seems logically impossible that the more contradictory we make might appear in our statements.
	I'm not condemning the people who believe in this.
	Let's get this clear everybody out there.
	I want the stones to get the right target.
	There was something about stupidity.
	I am condemning the belief, never the people.
	There's no one out there that I'm condemning.
	I love people, but I hate unconscious belief.
	So then it's a stupid belief.
	Exactly.
	I want to make that clear because I don't want people to misunderstand.
	Well, that will make them just as angry.
	It won't matter.
	I'd rather people be angry for the right reasons than for misunderstanding me.
	Well, that's true.
	All right.
	Very good.
	First time caller on the line, you are on the air with the Living Dichotomy.
	I'm Miss Perup.
	I used to live about a mile away from you.
	Oh, well.
	You better get back here before it's all filled up.
	Yeah, I understand.
	I wouldn't even know the place right now.
	This is Dave calling from Austin, Texas.
	Yes, sir.
	About your last rock thrower, I think in 2,000 years there will probably be 20,000 bits and fragments of manuscripts that theologians will argue over that might have names like David Koresh and Heaven's Gate on them.
	There have been people handing out tracts since Ugg thumped Gugg on the head.
	I was raised a Baptist.
	I like to tell people I used to be a Christian but then I got saved.
	I had a life changing event happen right out there in Pahrump on what we used to call the highway of death.
	Rump in Las Vegas.
	Four lanes now.
	Yeah, I understand.
	Back then it was a two lane mountain road with no halfway desert, halfway through the mountain.
	There were a lot of crosses on the road.
	Yeah, a lot of people died on that road.
	I put one of them up myself and I lost a wife there.
	Oh, I'm so sorry.
	There's nothing like watching someone you love die violently.
	That's right.
	To have life kick you out of your boxes and out of your preconditions.
	Exactly.
	I was raised a Baptist and that kicked me out of my little box of fear and made me start looking very hard at spiritual matters.
	I've spent a lot of years at it and I'd like to get your guests' opinions on a couple of observations.
	First off, I have a lot of compassion for people who are still stuck in Christianity because being raised a Baptist I was just absolutely engulfed in fear.
	And I was given this little box to live in and the walls were built of fear and I was told that outside this box was hell.
	And if I didn't accept all these precepts of this God who I couldn't understand and who didn't make any sense to me, then I better be afraid of Him that I was going to be thrown out and burned in this lake forever.
	A lot of people cling to this because they are scared and they don't know any better.
	But I came to find that Christianity didn't work for me anymore.
	Excuse me, I'm a little nervous.
	For two basic reasons.
	I'd like to state those precepts and get your opinion of them.
	First off, Christianity is based, I believe, on yet another interpretation of the ancient
	rite of the blood of the innocent paying for the sins of the guilty.
	That goes back to Baal worship, the Inca gods, dozens of pagan religions from prehistory where our personal responsibilities are taken away from us and heaped on some innocent person.
	I find that immoral.
	I find it immoral that some innocent must pay for what someone guilty has done.
	The second reason I find Christianity doesn't work for me and I find it immoral anymore It's the concept of how it strips freedom and personal responsibility in another way.
	Let me give you an example.
	The concept of salvation through grace being a free gift.
	Let's assume there's a thought experiment.
	You're standing here and a guy walks up to you with a suitcase in one hand and he's got a gun in the other hand.
	He walks up to you and he says, in this suitcase is a million dollars.
	He says, you can take this million dollars, it's a free gift, but if you don't take it I'm going to shoot you in the head and kill you.
	Okay?
	Now, the fact that a million dollars is nice is irrelevant.
	What fool is going to say, okay, I don't want your free gift so kill me.
	Okay?
	There's no difference between that and a God who would walk up to you and say, either accept my free gift of salvation and grace or I'm going to burn you in hell forever.
	There's no choice here.
	There's no grace here.
	Well, you know, that was exactly the thing that I was struggling with in my teens.
	You said it very eloquently, and I really struggled with it.
	I mean, this is blackmail.
	It is.
	This is immoral.
	It is blackmail.
	And I don't think that was intended by the original founders of Christianity.
	Or Judaism, or Buddhism, or any of them.
	This is the dogma that's come after.
	This is the myth-making and the politicizing that came after.
	I don't blame Jesus, Buddha, or any of the mystics for this.
	It's just a bad habit.
	When you say it's immoral, yeah, you could say that.
	For me, I just consider it primitive.
	We've got to grow up.
	I like the way you put it earlier, which is what caused me to call in the first place.
	My God is bigger than that.
	He is.
	He is.
	He doesn't need people to lick his feet forever and tell him how wonderful he is.
	Your God wants a bigger rock, right?
	He wants me to grow up.
	He gave me a brain.
	He wants me to use it.
	He wants me to become responsible for myself.
	In essence, what he wants me to be is like him.
	I don't think God's a psychotic, so I can't imagine that's what he really did.
	Exactly.
	These are things written by men to control masses.
	That's what I think.
	I guess I more or less agree with that.
	Who can believe and love a being like that?
	I don't think God is psychotic so I can't imagine that is what he really did.
	Exactly.
	These are things written by men to control masses.
	That's what I think.
	Yes, I guess I more or less agree with that.
	Wild Card Line, you are on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hello Art.
	I'm calling out of Memphis.
	I've been listening to you since three years ago when I first heard you, and I'm going to talk real fast, which will take a lot of the compassion out of my voice.
	I have a couple of questions and then a couple of comments, and then I'll hang up, okay?
	Sure.
	Mr. Hogue, I'm one of those, that I'm not throwing a stone, Christians, okay?
	And Jesus loves you.
	And the reason that some of them get so angry is because To them, Jesus is the most wonderful thing, and to me, that ever lived, and he died for us.
	And you know how men get mad, or women too, when you speak ill of their mother?
	Well, we're even worse about Jesus than that.
	Are you familiar with C.S.
	Lewis?
	It's the first question.
	He was a friend of J.R.
	Tolkien.
	And he said, what do you think of Jesus and who he was?
	You either have to believe what he said he was, And he said he was God.
	Or you've got to believe that he was the craziest, most diabolical liar that ever lived.
	And where do you get all this info that you accumulate?
	You're believing from history and things that you've read or people that you've talked to, just like we do.
	Only our book is supposed to be inspired by God.
	Supposed to be.
	Wait just a minute.
	You can't read Sumerian or Akkadian, probably, can you?
	And this is where you're getting this from things you've read or things you've experienced talking to other people.
	And there is a reverent fear of God.
	And there's somebody I'd like for you to get on.
	It's Hugh Ross.
	He's a creation physicist.
	Can I give you the www to get him?
	No, please don't.
	But you can send me a phone number to reach him and it would be instructive and interesting and even entertaining to have him on with John Hoke.
	He is so smart, I can't hardly follow him.
	Where do I call for this?
	If you have a way that I can contact him, you can fax it to me, you can mail it.
	I don't have a fax.
	Well then, how about the good old U.S.
	Mail?
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Okay, I'll get your address and you'll give me that.
	I want to comment on what you said.
	Thank you very much.
	There's a healthy jealousy, too.
	There's no healthy fear or no healthy jealousy in my experience.
	Anyway, it would be interesting to get the two of you on together.
	That would be very entertaining.
	Yes.
	At any rate, you wanted to comment, you said?
	You know, I can hear in some people, you know, I respect the sincerity of people who are in their beliefs.
	And again, I am not against the people.
	I am just against the beliefs, which I find in my own experience to Be based on a lot of ignorance and fragmentary knowledge.
	Well, the people with beliefs don't separate it the way you do.
	You see, the problem with the syndrome of belief is to believe you can never make the first step to inquire because that first step out of belief you're cast out of the fold.
	You're not in the fold anymore.
	You're alone.
	The whole syndrome of belief forces one to stay in it.
	Now, you may be somebody who And then go and investigate.
	I've read dozens of books of people who say, well, you know, I've proven that my belief is true.
	But what I find, whether it's Christians, Buddhists, or whoever who are saying this, is I notice that they're just basically not getting out of the belief.
	They're just finding things that support the belief.
	Certainly doing 30 years of study in Nostradamus has taught me how people do that with Nostradamus.
	And from there, it went on to studying how people do that In other scriptures.
	But you have done that with Nostradamus, haven't you?
	And I'm the first one to admit it.
	And people who actually read my books know that, unlike a lot of my colleagues, I call myself by it.
	I'm going to write a book in the future about Nostradamus where I will be hard on myself as I am on everybody else.
	It's only fair.
	A lot of my experiences, I have to correct the lady, are not from what other people say.
	A lot of my experiences which have kept me out of, liberated from dogma, have been from my personal examination of things.
	I first had to see how when people hurt my feelings about my religious ideas, I had to first ask myself, wait a minute, when did this become my feeling?
	But didn't she ask you a pretty good question?
	You haven't read Sumerian texts.
	You don't read Sumerian, do you?
	Well, I doubt that she does, either.
	Well, okay, but there are people who do.
	Well, there are people who do, yes, and I also study their books.
	You know, we live in an information society where you don't have to spend the time to access stuff in a bullet cart way.
	You know, if a person As a studied Sumerian, what I do with the Sumerian scripts is I look at three different scholars.
	I don't just base it on the one that cuddles up to my biases.
	I have to look at the ones that refute it.
	And that's the same with the fellow who was on earlier talking about the different translations of the Bible.
	There are so many different translations of the Bible, and I look at as many as I can.
	From Aramaic to the Greek scriptures alone, and to the others.
	I mean, a lot of Jewish scholars contend that a lot of what the Old Testament says from the Christian scholars is misinterpreting Hebrew.
	So, I mean, it's a long, huge battle.
	To study something, you've got to look at least one pro, one neutral, and one con.
	Yes, I had a question.
	Let's assume for a minute that the Bible is correct when it says that God created the earth, and that's kind of the theory that I go with because I have a problem with the Big Bang Theory.
	But, if that is the case, then where did God come from?
	Yes, who is the God that created God?
	And if God is the creator of the whole world, then who's responsible for evil in the world?
	Who created the devil?
	Who ultimately is responsible for all of sin?
	Well, the devil fell down, right?
	He was a fallen angel.
	Yeah, but God created him.
	God created him.
	Who's responsible for his existence?
	So who is responsible for the existence of evil and sin?
	God.
	In that logic.
	If you're going to look at that.
	That's why it falls down.
	When anybody gives me the Bible, they say, you know, You know, this is the Word of God, and it's perfect.
	I say, okay, fine.
	Why didn't God know that the sun, uh, the Earth moves around the sun?
	And why is it never stated in the Bible that the Earth is round?
	It's always in four corners.
	Well, he did know all that.
	He was leaving that for us to discover, along with the unraveling of our genetics.
	Well, if that's the case, and he's leaving it for us to discover that his creation is much more loving, forgiving, and tolerant than most of the dogmas of any religion, Are stating today.
	I predict that's what God will show us tomorrow in the future.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hoag.
	Good evening, Art.
	Hi.
	Good evening, John.
	Good evening.
	I'm going to miss you in New York, Art.
	I'm a former New Yorker myself.
	Have a good time when you're there.
	Thank you.
	Hello, John.
	Hello.
	I was wondering.
	I meditated and pondered many years over the nexus that we're coming to.
	Many call it the apocalypse or whatever.
	And what I've envisioned and seen is a kind of, almost like string theory, where there's something opens where all of the earths and all the different dimensions come together for a short time and everyone that thinks whatever they want to get are going to get it.
	Like the people that want the rapture will get the rapture, the people that want hell will get hell, those that want the idealized earth will get that.
	Is there anything, because you're very well read, is there anything in your literature that you've read or your ponderings that have supported something like that?
	Well, you know, yeah, there's a thread through a lot of mystics' teachings is that we are what we think, we are what we project.
	I mean, Buddha, when he became enlightened, said, the whole world became enlightened when I became enlightened.
	And that means whether people were aware of it or not, he saw that he was one with everything and it was all enlightened.
	And that's a common thread.
	So there's somebody, it's not just a special time where this nexus comes together.
	It's, I think, been our reality Well, we always create our reality around us and most of the time we're creating it unconsciously and so no wonder it's most of the time a real struggle and a bit of a miserable, fearful number.
	I would say everybody look at the experiment of backtracking and going back in your mind Your memories and experiences and when did these fundamental opinions and focuses and understandings of the world begin?
	I've done this and I've been very shocked and surprised to see how just about everything that I thought was me is borrowed from somebody else.
	My name, my identity, my religion, the things that hurt me, the things that make me feel happy.
	Almost everything when I go back into it with meditation shows that That I'm just a collection of borrowed ideas.
	That's what the Greek word idios, idiot, means.
	And I'm certainly, certifiably an idiot.
	That's what meditation has shown.
	Now, once that is seen, one then starts the road of divesting borrowed things.
	And in that process, I contend, that one returns to one's innate potential genius.
	It starts, your brain starts expanding, your heart starts expanding, there's an intelligence that comes, there's an innocence that you forgot as a child that returns to you, only this time with awareness.
	John, show ending.
	Show ending.
	all right uh... listen you can get john's books by calling one eight hundred
	nine zero five three six seven
	and you can even get them in bernadette you if you want to Go to your bookstores.
	Go to my website, hochprophecy.com, too.
	Okay, 1-800-905-8367.
	John, as always, a great pleasure having you here.
	Thanks, Art.
	Thank you so very much, and good night.
	And as for the rest of you out there, remember what a great philosopher once said, no pain, no pain.
	Good night.

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