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Jan. 4, 2000 - Art Bell

02:52:26

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Hogue - Y2k, Religion, and Nostradamus

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51:22

john hogue

59:48

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I spent uh hours and hours and hours instant angling of the screening video equipment uh from the equipment that does the uh the webcam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if there's a few glitches in that, uh we'll just have to understand I have about a thousand wires like spaghetti in here.
unidentified		Spaghetti for a big crown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we've got a lot to talk about tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Holt will be here in the next hour, but uh let's see.
unidentified		Number one, Y2K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Y2K, the non-event.
		You have to admit, and I do admit, it was a non-event, pretty much so far.
		Now, for the sake of what I'm about to say, let's say it was a non-event period.
unidentified		That by and large nothing went wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, that's not quite true.
		But at the scale that Gary North suggested and others, certainly no way, Jose.
		However, to those of you that stock up on food, got emergency supplies of one sort or another, a generator perhaps, at the extreme, or a radio that doesn't require batteries, or a light that'll last a long time, don't get rid of any of it.
		Trust me when I tell you this, don't get rid of any of it.
		First of all, we're not done with Y2K.
		It'll unfold through about March.
		Number two, there's a certain way of looking at things, and that is you were sort of self-insured.
		In other words, no doubt you went out and bought some food, if not a year supply, then some food at least, right?
		And you may have, as I said, bought a Beijing radio or some other sort of radio that would operate independent of the power grid.
		Had some water stored, you know, what was recommended, the minimum recommendations that people talked about.
unidentified		Well, change that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you have, most of you who drive, you have car insurance, right?
		This is a friend of mine here in Vermont, who also prepared, who said this.
		If you have car insurance and you have paid your quarterly premium or however you pay it, and you don't have an accident, you're not disappointed, are you?
		If you have fire and flood insurance on your house and your house doesn't burn down or go underwater, you're not going to discontinue your insurance, are you?
		I wouldn't think so.
		You probably either through your company or by yourself have some kind of health insurance.
unidentified		If you don't get sick, you don't bitch and quit paying, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you did some preparations, and I certainly did, and I'm not sorry I did, it is amazing to me, and I am very thankful that we did not lose power.
		That was the big one.
		You know, on New Year's Eve at midnight, I was really worried about power because of what Harry North had said about the embedded chips.
unidentified		But it looks like, and you can kind of put some sort of looks like, to me I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like we've got away with it.
		And thank God, considering the alternative.
		Now, as far as other things are concerned, you know, here's something I really find strange.
		The Y2K problems that we do have that have been reported are the last ones I would have expected.
		In other words, the Pentagon lost control of one of its very important satellites, and they reported that for a little while on CNN and then stopped reporting it.
		Have problems at any number of nuclear power plants, and again, you would think they would be the last places that would have problems.
unidentified		I mean, the last places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would think Joe's pharmacy, or, you know, I just made that up, whatever little company is the one that would have problems.
		Now, there have been an awful lot of things that have happened that have been reported as non-Y2K related.
		They're very quick to add that.
		Non-Y2K related.
		There was an outage of the FAA's ability to track airplanes up in the Northeast, pretty serious one too, non-Y2K related.
unidentified		And I just got this fact from Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll just say Linda's so as not to identify them anymore.
		But it reads, No, dear art, I thought you'd like to know this.
		Where I work, the company directed us on Thursday via a company memo that when we reported back to work on Monday, if anything was wrong, it was not underlined to be reported as a Y2K problem.
		I only wonder how many companies have instructed their employees to do the same legend.
		The obvious we know about.
		The world didn't end.
		I didn't think it would.
		The power didn't go off.
		That would have been serious.
		But the rest of it, I'm not too sure about right now.
		At any rate, again, coming back to what I said in the first place and what I really mean, if you prepared, do not, I repeat, do not give up those preparations.
unidentified		You're going to need them for the weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know if you heard what happened in Scotland or not, but in Scotland, we just got reports of another storm that has hit with 100 mile per hour plus winds.
		In Scotland, this time, tens of thousands of people without power.
		Blue destroyed roofs right off homes, that kind of thing.
		We continue to get report after report after report of bad weather here in the U.S. Here's one.
		Hey, what is going on with the weather?
		Those on storms that just went through Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, and so on.
		The weather is relentless.
		Here in Buffalo, New York today, it was in the 50s.
		And we've only had about 10 inches of snow where I live.
		Now that's unheard of.
		The grass is green, and nobody's wearing winter coats.
		In New York, a couple of days ago, it was 70 degrees.
		Now, remember, we are into the month of January.
		70 degrees in New York.
unidentified		Can you imagine that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Prepare if you have preparations, just in case the power does go off, in case it is weather-related, now that Y2K seems appears to be behind us.
unidentified		Keep your preparations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was the Las Vegas Review Journal reporter, I think, that called.
		They had my number in, so they called me and they asked my friend here.
		They didn't ask me, they asked him, Paul, I said, do you feel like you have egg in your face for the preparations you've done?
unidentified		You know, stocking up on food and water and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he said, no, not any more than I feel like I've got egg on my face when I pay my insurance, when my house didn't burn down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Said that worldwide, about $250 billion was spent on Y2K remediation.
unidentified		And I guess it worked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, I say Y2K appears to be a non-event, but we're going to have to keep our eyes on the whole thing through March.
		So anybody with any questions is welcome to ask them.
		We're going to be in open lines this hour.
		And then next hour, John Hope.
		Six weeks after she unofficially announced her candidacy for the New York Senate seat, two moving vans arrived at the Clinton's new $1.7 million Westchester County home this afternoon.
		Mrs. Clinton was expected at the House tomorrow to begin emptying those boxes and spending her first night there.
		President Clinton is planning to visit there from time to time, but you've got to wonder, is this the beginning of the end of the Clintons?
		Or if she were to get to be a senator, could he not afford to divorce her?
		She could not afford to have them divorced because she would then be, you know, I guess it's rough when you're a senator or a president.
		You can't go through a divorce publicly or you pay for it, I'm told.
		Or maybe, on the other hand, people would fully understand if that's what occurred and would not politically hold that against her.
		Well, I see that George Bush has been endorsed by Elizabeth Dole, and now I see that Senator Kennedy is about to endorse Gore.
unidentified		The market.
unidentified		Good Lord, the market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really took a dive today.
		The stock market, percentage-wise, not bad at all, really.
		Even though it was, what was it, 359 points, something like that.
		The NASDAQ, though, down well over 200 points.
		The biggest drop in NASDAQ history.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably people taking profits, which they did not want before the new tax year, some of that.
		Everybody's afraid that interest rates are going to go up, and they might, because the economy is really, really, really hot.
		You should see all of the stories I'm getting on China.
		Farmers on Beijing's barren hills saw it, many of them, an object slot in colored light that some say must have been a UFO, but they're not alone.
		People in 12 other cities in China reported unidentified flying object sightings last month.
		UFO researchers, meanwhile, were busy looking into claims of an alien abduction in Beijing.
		Here in the very beginning of the new millennium, the mainland is astir, China is, With alleged sightings of other world visitors.
		And for a country usually straitjacketed by its rulers, alien sightings are getting serious treatment.
		All of a sudden, a country that, well, you never heard from China.
unidentified		Here it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		China is going absolutely berserk suddenly with UFOs and even abductions.
		What do you think would account for that?
		Remember, China politically is still a communist country, and you wouldn't expect this sort of thing to be coming out of China at all.
unidentified		But it is.
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		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I told them governments are not going to come out willingly and tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		The reason why they won't do that is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believe that we will be invisited by extraterrestrials and you have categorical poof from the Sabbath, do you think you'll listen to some of the bill that government throws on all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you won't start doing your own thing.
		And you will forget all about government control and everything else.
		So, the bottom line is: government will never ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Coastal Korea, the company's plans that our website is now open on the terminal of the humans.
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		Visit Kursu Kursu Yan.
		I'm not going to say that.
		I'm looking forward to you.
		I'm Kursu Kursu Yan.
		I'm looking forward to you.
		See, I think we have no secrets out there.
		I think many, many, the peace are probably in deeper trouble than we are going to be.
		You have to either say these are just incompetent people or they're following an ideology or maybe even more dangerous a game plan.
		That's what I think is happening.
		I don't think that they're stupid people.
		I think they have a different agenda than me.
		Now we take it back to the end of January 4th, 2000, a half hour, somewhere in time.
		Mario
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you have those in there, bad weather everywhere in the world.
unidentified		Well, you know, that's really not quite true.
		There is good weather in places where there ought not be good weather.
		As I said the other day, 78 degrees in New York City, say in January.
		Out north in Canada.
		People are loving it.
		And I understand that.
		not getting the cold water they usually expect.
		Now, that's not necessarily a good thing.
		Hey, last night they had in Owensboro, Kentucky, an F-3 tornado.
		It's for about 250 homes.
		An F-3 tornado in January.
		In January.
		That's absolutely amazing.
		Amazing.
		What's the Rockies?
		You're on here.
		Hello.
		Is this Andy from Rockland, Oregon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Rockland, Andy.
unidentified		How you doing, Andy?
		What's up?
		I heard the Air Force in May this summer, first.
		Do I remember?
		Yeah, you were gone.
		You were on the air Tuesday, December 1st.
		Why would that happen?
		Because the radio station said there was a crisis in your family.
		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
		So it went on there.
		Well, I explained it on the air, Andy, and I don't want to have to explain it all again.
		I appreciate your call, but we laid all that out on the air.
		And when you have the archives back tomorrow, you can go listen to it there.
		They're not there right now.
		As I explained, I want everybody to know, if you're trying to listen on a real I.O., good luck.
		Because it's not set up tonight.
		It will be set up, I know, on tomorrow night.
		But then again, you never know.
		That's certainly what I got planned.
		I believe I will achieve that.
		There's a little bit of change taking place there.
		but we are going to get it distributed to you anyway.
		As a matter of fact, actually there is going to be a great expansion of the distribution of the radio by computer.
		In fact, Russian law for the first time is going to be available or is now on the audio.
		That's going to make a lot of people happy too.
		So hanging there, they're about to build an empire.
		Empires, however, take a little building, so be patient.
		All of that's coming.
		I did want to remind you of that.
		Those of you going to look for hard times or whatever tonight, you're not going to find it.
		But I can make we'll be back.
		I'm hard now, and this is Coast to Coast AMU See Point Ball.
		So we'll talk about on the radio networks tonight.
		An on-presentation of Coastal Crusade, from January 4th, 2000.
		The end of the day is to be able to escape the enemy.
		When it's alright, it's going to come.
		We got to get right back.
		We've got it for something.
		We've got to get right back.
		I'm not even sure.
		If you wouldn't take my place, no one takes your place.
		You're hurting, get hurt.
		I believe you'll think I'm taking my back home.
		You're the one that is all right for me.
		You must need white bells somewhere in town.
		Tonight featuring the replay of Coast Tech Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Great to be here.
		We're post-Y2K.
		How do you feel, by the way, in the new millennium?
		Do you feel refreshed?
unidentified		New?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy?
		Sad?
		How many of you out there are sad that something ping and nasty didn't happen?
		Maybe there are some people who are sad that something didn't happen.
		I'm glad.
		If the last thing we wanted to have happen was for some sort of infrastructure collapse to take place here or worldwide or anywhere.
		And so far it looks like we really are okay.
		And again, I'm very, very happy about that.
		And you should be too.
		And those of you who prepared, stay prepared.
		Don't go off eating up all your food and getting rid of whatever you may have done to get ready because the way the weather's looking right now, you're definitely going to need it.
unidentified		The End Now I will take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on our bell, somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to the lines.
		We go again at the top of the hour, John Hulk.
		Not only did we not have any Y2K problems of significance yet, but we didn't have any terrorism of significance yet.
		And the man who has talked a great deal about that with respect to prophecy has been John Hogue, one of the world's great experts on astronomics.
		And so I thought it appropriate to have him on this night.
		First time calling line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Uh, yes.
		Um, can you pax some of the place?
		Well, I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you gonna fax me something good?
unidentified		Uh, you will be interested in yes and me.
		I will.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's guaranteed.
unidentified		Oh, it's a guarantee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then.
unidentified		You gotta pence it.
unidentified		I'll give you a little bit before you want to get done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, it's area code 775.
unidentified		775.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		727.
unidentified		727.
		8499.
		8499.
		Right.
		Okay.
		Uh, is this hard?
		Yes.
		Okay, hard.
		Uh, I'm calling from Louisville, Kentucky.
		Yes, sir.
		First time I've called.
		Uh, I've listened to your show a couple of years.
		It's a really interesting show.
		Excuse me.
		Uh, want to fact you, uh my mother's cousin, uh, was a pilot in the Kentucky Air National Guard back in 1956.
		Right.
		Excuse me.
		Um.
		And his plane crashed in a cornfield over in Bedford, Indiana.
		And my aunt never did believe the crash report, at least the official report that the airports gave her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what respect?
unidentified		Well, according to the Air Force, the crash was caused by a lack of oxygen.
unidentified		They said he suffered hypoxia and he blacked out and he crashed his plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very much like what happened to the golfer.
unidentified		Right, right.
unidentified		But this, have you ever, I'm sure you're aware of the sort of Thomas Mantell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Okay, well he was a pilot back in 1948.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well now let me ask you a few details.
		Emboxia begins to occur on 12,000, 13,000 feet, 13,500, above about that, you begin to get in trouble.
		So why?
		What caused this?
unidentified		Well, I've heard a story my entire life.
		My aunt told it to me and told it to my mother.
		She never believed the report, and we never did know why.
		She always said, she always told my mother, and she always told me up until the day she died, that she always thought her son saw something up there, and that is what caused him to crash his plane.
		But we never did.
		I never did get the background of the story.
		I never did delve into it until about two years ago.
		Back in 1996, I got all the information I could locally,
		i went down to the library when his plane crashed it was on the front page of the local paper here in Louisville the front page article and I got all the information I could out of that and I called National Archives and a few other places I wanted to get a copy of the crash report and they told me I would have to write Kirkland Air Force Base out in Albuquerque because all the older records got shipped out there up to a certain date.
		They would have all the reports of the crash reports, anything you want they would have out there.
		So I went ahead and wrote them a letter and through the Freedom of Information Act I got a copy of the crash report and it's about, I don't know, probably 30 pages long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't send me 30 pages.
unidentified		I'm not.
unidentified		I'm going to send what I got, I have it all made up, it's about 9 or 10 pages long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, don't even send me that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My tax machine will not accept more than three.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it goes into memory and if there's more than three pages.
unidentified		Well, I'll have to pick out three good pages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you go.
unidentified		But I got the report from 1956.
unidentified		I got it a few years back and I was looking at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did it say?
unidentified		Okay, well it says it has an entire synopsis basically of a flight when he took off from Louisville.
		It was 3.30 in the afternoon.
		It was on a sunny midwinter day in January.
		And he was out for a routine flight.
		This guy was a World War II fighter pilot.
		He had like 3,600 Rs.
		He did missions over Nazi-occupied European.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of aircraft was he in?
unidentified		He was in a F-51, which was a modified P-51 Mustang.
		It was supplied with oxygen.
		He had oxygen.
		It was an oxygen-equipped plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
unidentified		And he was out on a routine flight.
unidentified		He was out testing a carburetor and he couldn't crop on the plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but again, what did they suggest the cause of the crash was and why?
unidentified		Okay, according to them, according to the Air Force, they said it was hypoxia.
		They thought that he went up too far and either his oxygen cord got tangled or it got cracked or whatever.
		He blacked out.
		But the interesting thing, if you read this report, in the report itself, in a detailed overview of the flight, he was totally coherent, totally conscious, five minutes before the plane crashed.
		And five minutes before the plane crashed, the radar unit in Fort Knox, where he took off from spotted some high-flying, what they called high-flying jet aircraft.
		Okay?
		Yes.
		They had that on a radar unit.
		They had located that on radar.
		And according to an interview that was done back in 1996 with the commanding general of this base, he said, and I'm quoting, this radar unit in Oak, I think it was Oak Hill down in Fort Knox, told this pilot, they vector him to intercept these hotline aircraft.
		And the next thing you know, five minutes later, he's no going to close.
		Yeah, but the thing, he was at 20,000 foot, and if you run a blackout, you'll start blacking out about 14,000 to 15,000, like you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'll start to feel a little oxygen star.
unidentified		Right, he was at 20,000, and then he climbed to 34,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're definitely in trouble up there.
unidentified		Right.
		And the last thing that he reported is he was going to climb to 35,000 to try to see what these aircraft were that were approaching from his right.
		But they didn't characterize them as...
		Anywhere in the report, even you know, there's nowhere in the report that they identify them later as a group of commercial planes or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		High-flying jet aircraft.
unidentified		They classify them as high-flying jet aircraft.
		In this case, it's general, they vector him to intercept.
		And the next claim is about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if they, obviously then they were unidentified or they would not have wanted him to go identify them.
unidentified		Correct.
		Okay, so intercept, I can't see what their point was.
		What's he going to do when he intercepts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, send that to me.
unidentified		Okay, brief agents?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then if you want to mail the rest, that's fine.
unidentified		All right?
		Okay.
		Can you have, when you're off the air or whatever, can you give me your post office box?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peelbox 4755.
unidentified		Okay, hold on.
		4755.
		In Hero.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's P. is in Paul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A-A-A-H-R-U-M-P.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zip code 89041.
unidentified		89041 is P-Box 4755.
		Yep.
		Okay, you'll get the facts tomorrow morning.
		I can't do it now, but you're going to have to.
		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
unidentified		Thank you very much, and take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The trouble is, with nothing identified more than high-flying jet aircraft, to be able to go back now and put any piece of that together and suggest there was more to it is going to be one tough job, I'll tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weston, the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Art.
		Hello.
		Hi, how you doing?
		Fine.
		Good, I can't believe I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Reading, California, and I listen to KQMS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Close to the famous Reading River.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Mm-hmm.
		Anyway, I called because I listened to your program.
		I've been listening to it since 1994.
		And I noticed that a lot of times people come on and they say things, and you have guests that say things that are absolutely undefensible and are completely untrue.
		And people, no one ever challenges these things.
		For example, you have people on that say, in regards to reincarnation, that the early church taught reincarnation.
		Yes.
		And I've studied thoroughly the early church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe there's a very great deal of support for that.
unidentified		There isn't, though.
		See, the thing is, is that, okay, they mention a lot of times Origin.
		Origin, he was a Greek father, but he did not teach reincarnation.
		He taught the pre-existence of the human soul.
		And he said that we existed in a heavenly realm before we came to earth, and we fell and we came to earth, but he did not teach reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what you believe is what you believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if somebody believes in reincarnation, it's not exactly your job to talk them out of it.
unidentified		I know, it's the council and I see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you do know that.
		What do you mean it's not true?
		It is true.
unidentified		No, the early church did not teach reincarnation.
		Origin didn't teach it.
		He taught against it.
		Why would they have a vote?
		Could you tell me that?
		Well, okay, the issue was up and it was brought up by the Gnostics, but the early church kept to the original rule of faith handed down by the apostles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, why would they, particularly then, and they were certainly very strict, you will admit, then, why would they even consider and have a vote on something that they would consider preposterous?
unidentified		Well, some of the Gnostics were bringing it into the Christian churches and stating as if it was apostolic doctrine, but it was not.
		It was not originally taught by the apostles.
		There's no evidence in history for that.
		This is revisionist history that's going on, and there's been ample evidence to go against this if these people would check it out.
		But I just want to say one thing.
		The last call, or the last guest you found on that, talked about Origen.
		Origin did not teach it.
		He even condemned the idea of the transmigration of the soul when he wrote to Celsus.
		And your guest said it's Celsus.
		I believe, as the Greek fathers and the church fathers taught, that we were created at the moment, probably of conception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that the soul was birthed at that moment?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Uh-huh.
		Yeah, and that's the way God created us the soul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be at the moment of conception or the moment of getting slapped on the butt?
unidentified		Probably, I would say conception, probably.
unidentified		But my main concern here is that there is historical revisionism going on by your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you explain people who are able to go into a hypnotic trance and describe another life?
		And I mean details and specifics of another life that they can then go and check on and verify.
		Things they could not possibly, not possibly have known.
		Names and descriptions of physical locations and all the rest of that.
		How do you dismiss that in your mind?
unidentified		Well, I believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean dismiss it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me put it this way.
unidentified		Dismiss it without considering it.
		I disconsider it, and I believe that since we are made in the image of God, that we have capabilities that we're not presently fully aware of.
		And when people are in a trancite state or asleep, their consciousness expands to some degree and they can acquire knowledge through other means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I'll buy that.
		I'll buy that, thank you, as easily as I'll buy the other.
		Yeah, sure.
		I think it's entirely possible that all of this is an artifact of the human mind.
		And I think I've brought that up to nearly every guest that I've had in the paranormal.
		Whether you're talking about somebody who's able to read minds, move objects, bend laser light, you know, all the various things that we know are done, you've got to consider that there's no supernatural, anything involved in it other than an existing or pre-existing artifact of the human, living human mind.
		And I don't dismiss that as a possibility.
		And in fact, to go further, I don't dismiss the possibility that there is not even a God.
		That there is no devil.
unidentified		No God, no devil, no afterlife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		And that's one of the reasons I've been doing all of this exploration with a lot of people because I don't know.
		Not for sure.
		That's a hard thing to say.
		And I know that a lot of you out there will sit there and say, well, you should know and you should be saved, and then you know.
unidentified		But I haven't been and I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be that we're the only ones, despite all the UFO reports.
		You've got to imagine the possibility that we are alone.
		It's every bit as fantastic a consideration as there are others.
		At least it's certainly possible.
		Maybe I went too far there.
		In my view, it's more probable there are others than not.
		But the possibility exists that we're all alone.
		That we, way back when, had nothing, no creation occurred.
		That lightning hit a mud puddle and some little thing crawled out of the mud puddle and jumped in the ocean or was born in the ocean or whatever.
		And here we are today.
		I mean, all of these things are possible.
		And what you believe with regard to them is a matter of faith.
		And I wouldn't attempt to shake your faith, but I will continue to explore the possibilities.
		East of the Rockies, you're on here.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, hi.
		Arcel?
		Yes.
		Yeah, let me get my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, turn it off, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very confusing if you don't do that.
unidentified		No.
		Uh I'd like to say that um you're the best thing on the radio.
		That's very kind of you, but again, there you've got it off.
		Yeah, I've got it off.
		Are you the best thing on the radio?
		Uh I am going to send you a letter of uh saying I'm in New York and um we are going to do a trip to New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm coming to New York.
unidentified		Yes, you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be doing a I'm going to be on the NBC Today show on the 11th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then on the 12th I am going to be in New York City at Quarantin Noble Rockefeller Center at 12.30 in the afternoon signing books along with Whitley Streak.
unidentified		Unfortunately I will not be able to be there, but I do want you to read my letter.
		I'd like to say that I don't know if you're aware that Curtis Lieber and Steve Morlsberg were given awards and I was shocked to find out that you weren't.
		When were they awarded?
		I don't even remember.
		I was so shocked it just threw everything else out of my mind.
		And I guess if people want to give them awards, that's their business.
		But I was so shocked that you weren't.
		Also, Curtis threw, you were supposed to get the keys to New York.
		You mean Curtis is going to take away my keys to New York?
		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's the final straw.
unidentified		Now, I think he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the final straw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My keys to New York, I didn't even know I was going to get them, and now I've lost them.
unidentified		Yes, you know, I hate to tell you this, but...
		It is the meanest thing I've ever heard, too.
		I think it's totally, you can't underestimate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been one of the high points of my life to get the keys to New York.
		I mean, not many people get that.
		And Curtis Lila has taken away my keys to New York.
		Boy, that is as cruel as you can get.
unidentified		I know.
		He boasted of this on the air.
		Did he?
		Yeah, I mean, how else would I find out?
		I'm really, you know, I think that there is something really Hell Hath No Fury like somebody cut off their airtime and this just maybe him a little bent on the Hell Hath No Fury like the woman scorned.
		Yes, but yes, exactly, exactly.
		I'm sure his fury is equal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's like Beravede People Scorned.
unidentified		Like what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Berave people scorned.
unidentified		Yes, definitely.
unidentified		I'm very upset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this I'm sad about.
		I'm going to miss the Keys to New York because of Curtis.
		Curtis, if you're listening, this really is the final straw.
		I mean, everything else I could have handled, but losing the Keys to New York, which would have been such an honor, that's too much.
unidentified		Well, you have the Keys to the Hearts of William McFans, so I hope that that's some compensation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'll live through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Could I say one more thing?
		One more thing.
		Yeah, I got the supplier from the J. Michael Stevens Company, the Lou Red Pen, etc.
		I'd like to add the table of the boy who didn't cry, Wolf, because we are going to need all that stuff.
		Oh, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it, Paul.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I say it again.
		Any of you who prepared out there, don't be rid of your preparations.
		There are a lot of bumps in the road ahead.
		Even though Y2K appears not to have been one of them, none of it seems to have come true, or at least certainly not the apocalyptic type predictions, which is a good thing.
		And so is preparation.
		Keep your stuff.
unidentified		You'll just need to work all summary time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4, 2000.
		The love you gave me nothing to save me and so it.
		When you want, how can I even try to go on?
		When you want, go and try, how can I carry on?
		When you've fallen away, though you're offending me.
		You make me feel alive, except I die like this.
		I'm not a man.
		I'm really trying to make it out.
		I wish I'd like to be here.
		I think we're worldwide in the league.
		Reader Radio Networks presents Art Bell Summer in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the new millennium, and I still love this song.
		Hey, as a matter of fact, somebody sent me a pristine 45 copy of this record.
		45 RPM copy of this record.
		And what a treasure.
		Thank you very much.
		If I had your name, I would thank you.
unidentified		It was really, it's really neat and original.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can look at it.
		You can see that final has never been crossed by a needle.
		It's pristine.
		The flirtations and nothing but a heartache.
		Thank you, whoever that was.
		Coming up in a moment, John Hogue, there are a couple of things I want to touch base with you on for those of you joining at this hour.
		One is, obviously, as I said last hour, Y2K was a non-event.
		With an asterisk there, we're going to have to watch it through March, but it was a non-event.
		And any of you out there who prepare, don't unprepare.
		The newspaper called up and asked a friend of mine here in town, well, gee, you prepared for Y2K bad day.
		You feel like you have egg on your face, huh?
		The world spent about $250 billion in Y2K remediation.
		I guess it worked.
		Power didn't fail.
		And we have yet to see, of course, downline whether there may be some problems.
		There are, surprisingly, in places you wouldn't expect the nuclear power plants.
		You would think they'd be high on the list of fix-its, you know, beforehand, but they have got a few problems.
		And some other areas that you just wouldn't expect those problems.
unidentified		But, by the way, it was the bug that didn't bite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if you prepare with water, food, radios that don't require batteries, lights, don't unprepare.
		I have never seen weather the way we're having it ever.
		Here's the story from the BBC in Scotland.
		It's power lines down, storms hit.
		Thousands of homes in the north of Scotland are now without electricity after winds of get this.
		Here we go again.
		More than 100 miles per hour blew down power lines.
		Scottish Hydroelectric said about 11,700 customers were affected in Orkney, Shetland, and the Western Isles and the Highlands at the peak of difficulties.
		A spokeswoman said that engineers were working to reconnect supplies and were being hampered by adverse weather conditions.
		She said, obviously, all local men are working flat out to restore supplies, but we're talking about winds in some areas in excess of 100 miles an hour, where it's rather difficult to do.
unidentified		That's solid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now this is story number three in the last three weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		70 degrees in New York a couple days ago?
unidentified		Tornadoes in the middle part of the U.S. ripping up homes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In January.
		Hello?
		In January, don't you prepare, stay prepared.
		Eat not your food.
unidentified		Drink not your prepared water.
unidentified		And stay prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One other little item before we turn our attention to John Hogue.
		They're beginning to turn away people from hospitals with regard to the flu.
		25% of the workers at the California Federal Bank's 19 Orange County branches have been sick every day since mid-December.
		Now, listen to that again.
		That's one out of four of the workers at the California Federal Bank's 19 Orange County branches have been sick every day since mid-December with the flu.
		Our sub-headline here is, this is from the Orange County Register, by the way.
		Flu, some hospitals having to turn away patients.
		I watched a really interesting A ⁇ E piece over the weekend on the people that are looking for the 1918 flu virus.
		And they found it.
		And they're attempting to reconstruct the DNA of that flu virus.
		Really, really interesting.
		They followed two expeditions, one very moneyed, and the other just one solitary man who went to Alaska and actually got fresh samples, fresh tissue with the 1918 flu virus in it.
		Really interesting.
		I wonder if any of the rest of you saw that.
		All right, anyway, coming up in a moment is John Hoag.
		And John, I guess, is the equivalent of some of the people who have been talking about Y2K, which is, I'm pretty much prepared to concede a non-event, or turned out to be a non-event, thank God.
		But with regard to terrorism, I would say he's the equivalent of those who have been screeching about Y2K.
		And by the way, if people had not screeched about Y2K, it probably would have happened.
		$250 billion worldwide, that's a lot of money to spend, and so I guess they got it.
		I guess.
		That's a very tentative, I guess, by the way.
		To the introductory copy for John Hoag.
		And in a minute, you're going to see why it's going to be kind of like an extension of the show that we did last hour, the last hour show.
		In the first days of July 1999, many who interpreted the 16th century prophet Nostradamus believed that the month would not end without fulfillment of his dire prophecy of a great king of cure descending from the skies.
		Many expected the third Antichrist to make himself known as a terrorist who triggers World War III.
		July came and went.
		No significant acts of terrorism in the world.
		On New Year's Eve, 1999, a shadow of concern dimmed the luster of celebration plans for millions around the world.
		Plans for a major Millennium Batch went forward in New York, but the city of Seattle once more has to cancel its Millennium Party.
		The city government based their decision on circumstantial evidence and rumors that terrorists planned to crash the party, if not the Seattle Space Needle itself with a bomb.
		When the clock struck midnight, the only terror on Seattle's streets came from the occasional heart-sobbing discharge of a kid's firecracker.
		The only terror waiting for New Yorkers on New Year's Day was 36 tons of party garbage left behind by the two million celebrants in Times Square.
		If the big bad Y2K bug turned out to be a gnat in disguise, it would seem the threat of a terrorist act somewhere, anywhere in the world, was not even a gnat's whisper in the din of what turned out to be the world's greatest global party.
		Are the prophetic warnings of terrorism just another kind of Y2K humbug?
		A new millennium demands a new examination into the signs and interpretations of terrorism and prophecy.
		John Hoag is the acknowledged world expert on Nostradamus and other prophetic traditions.
		And he is here tonight on the line from Seattle.
		And in a moment, we are going to speak with him.
		So directly ahead, John Ho.
unidentified		Sounds of fire
		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
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		Visit CoasterCoastAM.com to sign up.
		Looking for the fruit?
		You'll find it on Coast of Coast AM with George Moy.
		I argue with people about destroyer time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Governments won't do that.
unidentified		The reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us.
		If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you've had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the upgrades of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and screenline fashion.
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		No special time is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastedCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coast of CoastAM has a new name, Coast Insider.
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		Just 15 cents a day when you see it for one year.
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		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth, you'll find it on Coast and Coast AM with George Norrie.
		See, I think there are more secrets out there.
		I think Fanny, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
		You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
		That's what I think is happening.
		I don't think that they're stupid people.
		I think they have a different agenda than we do.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on Art Bell, Summer in Time.
		I'm a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just briefly, once again, we're going to be in New York City.
		I'm going to be in New York City, along with my wife and Woodley Streber and his wife.
		Next week is going to be a really wild week in more ways than one.
		And we're going to be doing the Today Show on December 11th.
		And then on December 12th, we're going to be at Blanz and Noble at 12.30 in the afternoon.
		That's Rockefeller Center.
		Blanza Noble, Rockefeller Center in New York.
		And we're going to do a book signing beginning at 12.30.
		My advice, arrive a little early.
		It's the launch hour.
		So if you can do it, arrive a little bit early.
		And you'll be able to actually get the new book, The Coming Global Superstorm, autographed by the two of us.
		All right.
		Now, here is John Hope.
		John, welcome back to the program.
		Glad to be back, RodArt.
		Great to have you.
		John, how long has it been?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the last show we did was on the 28th of September.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it was for my book 1000 for 2000.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you, though, however, you did do Dreamland this last weekend with Whitley Streeper.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we were talking about my newest book, Messiah's Visions and Prophecies of the Second Coming.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, before we launch into what we're going to do tonight about terrorism, and I certainly want to talk about that, I got a fact here from somebody named Brian.
		Brian says, hey, Art, you've got to ask John Hogue about religion.
		He said on Dreamland, you can confirm or deny this, that people who need religion are, quote, weak and need to grow up, end quote.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't say that.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		What I said was that, and basically the subject of Messiah is about re-examining the whole messianic subject of prophecy.
		And what I said was that situations where, for me personally, I think that a lot of what we are told is religion is myth.
		And virgin birth, I said, come on, let's grow up.
		We're in the new millennium.
unidentified		Virgin birth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, but that's sort of saying that.
unidentified		Virgin births.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mean you know Christ, right?
		Yeah.
		But I'm just making specifically this.
		But I mean, if you say virgin birth, oh, come on, grow up.
unidentified		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a miracle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there are a lot of miracles that were documented in the Bible.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Actually, where is that documentation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you know, the parting of the Red Sea, you know, all the rest of it.
		I mean, water in the middle.
		flowers, spouted from me.
		Is that what Buddha supposedly did?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is in the context of what Whitley and I were talking about, we were looking at how a lot of things in the new millennium are going to be re-examined.
		Not only what we're going to talk later about with terrorism, but even the whole issue of, I think, what's going to be the most burning issue and prophecy for the next year.
		And that is, okay, we've reached the millennium.
		According to over 30 religions, mainstream and fringe, we're expecting 30 messiahs to come from Eastern Messiah sources.
		And the thing that's usually happened there is if you look in the past and see what people have done in the past expecting their messiahs, they usually have a lot of expectations which over sometimes centuries have been garnished and changed and made even stronger.
		And people are waiting for a certain kind of person to appear.
		And historically speaking, the person who actually does appear, who later with hindsight seems to be the one that was foreseen, like a Jesus, like a Buddha, ends up, the vast majority of people miss it.
		Just look back 2,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The vast majority of the people of the world missed Jesus.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The people of his own nation, Israel, were expectant, because of certain popular interpretations of the book of Daniel, that they were living in the times when the Messiah would come.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But what they were expecting was a warrior, kind of a Jewish Alexander of the Great, who would come and kick Roman butt and get them back to being established as the...
unidentified		No, not by the Jews.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, by the Savior.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, you're jumping ahead.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're not talking about the people who later believed into Jesus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the people who expected Emmanuel to come back from the bloodline of David.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do you think there was coming right here to the quick of all this?
		Do you believe there was a man called Jesus who walked earth?
		Oh, yes.
		The man described in the Bible.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but he's buried as are many people who we later call Messiahs and avatars and god-men and all of that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		His historical facticity is buried in centuries of borrowed stories and myths.
unidentified		Do you believe he arose from the dead?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Not in a literal sense, and it has not been proven.
		Neither has it been disproven.
		But you know, people, one of the things that is difficult in the case of religions is that many of the, especially the Western religions, base a lot of what they look at on faith, which is fine, but technically speaking, if you base yourself on a faith, it means that you have not actually proven what's your belief.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To believe is not to know.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But to trust in what you don't know, you trust that someone else who has told you that it's so, it has made it so.
unidentified		Faith.
unidentified		That is faith.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But there's another kind of faith which other mystical groups sometimes believe in, and that is faith in embracing the unknown.
		That I don't know.
		As you were saying last hour, that to be in a state of non-knowing, or what Bodhidharma used to say, one of the patriarchs' den, did you ask me?
unidentified		He was.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He said, no knowing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear my first hour?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you heard me say, with regard to God or the devil, I don't know.
		With regard to UFOs from somewhere else or ours, I don't know.
		Exactly.
		I really honestly don't know.
		If you press me to the wall, I don't know.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		As I investigate through my years as being a meditator and studying around the world different religious movements, which is one of my other major studies, which will yet have some books coming out, the thing I find is the deeper I go into the examination, the observation of the mysteries and the miracles of being alive, the less I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The more I experience.
unidentified		The less I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've not found the same thing.
		Hold on, John.
		We'll be right back after the break here at the bottom of the hour.
		A lot more time.
		It's going to be pretty controversial I can already tell.
		Can't you?
		Do you feel your blood beginning to boil?
unidentified		I'm back.
		You'll listen to what Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-call presentation at Coast to Coast AM from January 4, 2000.
		I'll give you none, I want to breathe.
		I'm made up.
		I did all.
		I have to hear what it has to stop.
		You're going all sky high by telling me you're right.
		Without a reason why.
		You're going all sky high.
		You're going all sky high.
		I love you.
		Burps
		You're listening to Art Bell, Sunny Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-road presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 4, 2000.
		Round of the wind
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I never got to read this whole text by Brian, though John says he didn't quite say that.
		It says, all right, ask John Hood about religion.
		He said on Dreamland, the people who need religion are, quote, weak and need to grow up.
		I wouldn't give a guy like that that time of day.
		He should not be a guest on your show, Brian.
		Well, he didn't say that, precisely.
		Although, I would say that you got close in a way.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In a way, but that's always the key problem.
		In a way, over 20 centuries, people in a way remember their masters, remember their religious founders, and in a way, over 20 centuries, by that way, you end up getting misinterpretations.
		And I could see where that story passed down a line of people could make a completely different myth about what I said on Whitley Scruber's show.
		Now, what I said was that a new religiousness may be coming in the world.
		A new millennium may see a lot of the current religions that we see today as mainstream religions fade away.
		I mean, do you remember the cult of ISIS, or do you remember the Mithraic cult?
		It was a mainstream religion of 20 centuries ago.
		And they also had their belief that they would be tested by new cults and they would survive, but they have not.
		Why would we be so arrogant with saying that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but John.
		One thing that has survived since the dawn of man, since we have recorded anything, is religion.
		Not in the same form, perhaps, religiousness.
		Religiousness.
		Yes, that has survived throughout all of the ages that we can document.
		We have worshipped, I don't care what it is, the sun, the moon, the stars, the earth, Native Americans.
		You can go back.
		Everybody always worships something.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It will always be religiousness.
		As long as there's a human spark of divineness alive, there will always be religiousness.
		But the dogmas come and go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Young, I agree with you.
		The dogmas, some stay around longer than others.
		Certainly, Christianity, by measured against some other religions in the world, is very young indeed.
		Yes, for example.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Hinduism goes back, well, it depends on your scholars.
		In India, scholars tell me it goes back tens of thousands of years.
		Our Judeo-Christian point of view is that it's at least beyond past 3,000 BC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So I come back at you with the following.
		The fact that religiousness has survived the ages, I think, is a testament to the probability of our not being a product of randomness, but rather of some sort of creation.
		Absolutely.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that, and what I'm saying is that it seems to me from my life on this planet, observing around the world the different religious dogmas, is that these actually retard, they could actually retard our ability to get in contact, direct intimate contact with that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I would pose another blood curdler for everybody out there, that the pursuit of enlightenment of the human race is one of the greatest miracles that we have ever had on this planet because it thrives despite the dogmas, the myths, the wives' tales, and all the things that we tend to unconsciously pollute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or like Y2K, it's a non-event.
		I had a man on my show, I bet you heard him, who wrote a book called The God Part of the Brain.
		Do you know anything about that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me explain it to you.
		Maybe you will be interested in this concept.
		I think his name is Matthew Albert.
		And his contention is as follows.
		Religiousness, as you pointed out, and I pointed out, it's always been here.
		If you go and you encounter a tribe that's never been touched by humanity harder and harder these days in Brazil or, you know, I don't know, the Philippines, wherever, you'll find they worship something.
		And his contention is that the greatest fear that man has is death.
		And I also live there.
		I would not argue with that.
		The Grim Reaper, the greatest fear that man has is death.
		And that in order to cope with that, man had to invent something, always has to invent something that allows for his continuation after physical death because it's absolutely inevitable.
		So he contends the brain, and it can actually be measured, has a specific area that becomes very active when one considers spiritual matters.
		So the brain, in effect, invented a protective mechanism to allow man to function normally called religion.
		And it's the God part of the brain.
		What do you think of that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting theory, but as far as my own experience of the mystery, it's half the equation.
		Death certainly is the ultimate king of terror.
		And I would say, spiritually speaking, it is definitely something that makes all of us pause and reflect about existence.
		I myself have nearly died three times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not if you believe strongly, incontrovertibly, in an afterlife, that the God you believe in and have absolute faith in, and I don't put people down for having it at all, is going to whisk you away and you will continue on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you believe that, then that takes the edge off the fear of death.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't face the fear of death, in my experience, you will not encounter the mystery, the real mystery of life.
		That is my testimony, my experience, in my personal life.
		To believe in something is to retard the investigation.
		That has been my experience.
unidentified		I agree.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the thing that's also missing from it is that the other thing, and I learned this studying in the East, the other thing that also triggered humanity's quest for religiousness was the mystery of sexuality, of having orgasmic moments with your beloved.
		And the mind stops, and suddenly you feel one with the universe.
		And death and sex, usually in societies you will find that either sex is an open issue and death is repressed, like in the West, or in the East where I live, sex is repressed, and you go to the Burning Ghats, and it's a very open thing to follow the process of what happens to a body when it's dying.
		And I've done it.
		I've done the Burning Ghat meditations for three days and nights, sitting in the riverbank watching a body burn, then meditating on the skull and the bones that were remaining the following day, and then meditating on the empty pit where the body once was.
		It's quite a powerful initiation into death.
		And how something also in the experience showed me that I had to laugh inside.
		It's like it felt so familiar that I've done it a million times.
		It felt like it's not a big deal.
		But that's my experience.
		And I don't want anyone out there to believe anything that I'm saying.
		If it vibrates with you, if something in your heart is stirred by what I say and you want to just dump it, that's great.
		I respect your opinion.
		If you want to pursue it, I respect your opinion.
		It's your responsibility.
		I've had my own responsibility in my own process of seeking.
		And I try to share that in my books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try a scenario out on you.
		If you had been alive at the time of Christ and you had seen the miracles performed, Let's try it another way.
		Let's say Christ came back and you witnessed the miracles described in the Bible or new ones.
		Let's have new ones for the millennium.
		New miracles.
		People healed from incurable illnesses, seas, parted, all sorts of things, whatever you want to imagine today.
		The Brooklyn Bridge cut in half, you know, whatever.
		Would you embrace that or be automatically suspicious of it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I would be as skeptic as the original Greek word was intended, not cynic.
		Most people think skeptic says, oh, well, I'm in the negative.
		I'm not going to believe it.
		I'm going to already judge it in the negative.
		Well, that's biased.
		If I see a miracle, and I see many miracles in my life, I would look at it and observe it, neither for nor against.
		Skepticism in Greek means to investigate, to meditate on it, to see it, to look at it, to see if there's anything that was triggered for or against it, if it were a trick or not.
		We live in a world of miracles.
		One thing that's taught me a lot from prophecy study is that when you look at things we take for granted...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What miracle?
		We live in a world of what miracles?
		Tell me about a miracle.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radio.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The fact that you and I are talking on the airwaves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nope, not miracles.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know, because now we're used to it.
		Now we know it.
		But if you were the first man before the radio era, it would be a miracle, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it'd be magic.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Magicity.
		Another magic.
		Eye trails in the sky.
		Another magic.
		Absolutely.
		We take these things for granted, and that is the one thing a prophet scholar has to see, is how we perceive a prophecy depends on our era and history.
		And it constantly changes.
		And we take for granted, as soon as we get used to things, the miracles of medicine, the fact that in the 1920s, most kids were, you know, half your family of kids died before the age of five.
		Now, you know, if I were to tell you that that would end in America, people think it's a miracle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a miracle.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But it's a miracle that also can be explained.
		And I would say that eventually, everything that we currently call miracles will eventually be explained.
		We'll be able to measure, as I showed in 1000 for 2000, there were prophecies where we will be able to measure human thought.
		We will be able perhaps even to measure what we consider people who have departed.
		Why should our ability to get finer and finer tuned instruments end with a new millennium?
		It'll just continue.
		And so with that, the thing that will also happen is as the old miracles become familiar, there will always be new miracles to take their place.
		And I think that will be an eternal experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you name something that today we regard as a miracle?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The genetic engineering, artificial wounds, the ability to gain your entire substance from...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, we don't have an artificial wound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By today's standards.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well then...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to clone a human soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this I know, but it can all be explained.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Teleportation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Teleportation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		IBM has done it with light.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but physical matter, taking atoms and moving them to another place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we haven't done it yet.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That's a miracle.
		If that happened, you'd call it a miracle, but someday somebody will make it happen and it won't.
		You won't call it miracles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm arguing here is on the side of those who would say of the Bible, in that day, those were absolutely miracles that could not be explained then and cannot be explained now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem with that is that we don't, because it's of that day, because in those days people didn't record things, history is a concept that came almost a thousand years after the birth of Christ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying it's all revisionist, which is a kinderwaffing it's all a bunch of bull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not true.
unidentified		It is corrupted.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that there are fragments that are true, but we don't even call Jesus by his original name, and I often wonder why that is not happening.
		Why this Roman Greek misnomer?
		Why not call him by his Jewish name, Yeshua, by Yosef?
		So even in the very fundamental of where people pray to for so many centuries, the facticity of his real name is not even addressed in public.
		Why?
		And if that fundamental thing has problems, then one has to assume that there are a lot of other smaller details that have been changed.
		And it's not just Christianity.
		I don't want to be hard on the Christians.
		It's every religion.
unidentified		I understand.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid my book, Messiahs, will probably get banned by every organized religion in the world because I've tried to be an equal opportunity even to the native peoples and just to look at this very...
		An equal opportunity provoker of new thinking.
		Well.
		Because those have charges, those labels.
		And it will not be yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has your book yet made it to Iran?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may be joining Shalman Rusti in a bunker somewhere.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There are things worth writing and dying for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But I don't think that will happen.
unidentified		Well.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the Ayatollah were to give your book a read, not that he's around, but the equivalent thereof, what do you think they would say over there about you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		All I can say is if you make me a martyr, you make my books sell even more.
unidentified		Well, that's a whole issue that could cover a whole show.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know, it is all I can say is that I'm aware of, very much aware that this is hurting a lot of people's feelings, but I contend that those feelings are borrowed.
		That we need, if we're going to make this new millennium, a great millennium, we need to stop borrowing the last generation's thoughts, feelings, and borrowing them without investigating on our own.
		Unless that is broken, the cycle of misery that prophecy is cannot be broken.
		I'm anti-prophetic.
		I work on prophecies, but basically the point is that I see after 30 years of this that people, every generation is born to take on borrowed knowledge, identities, and dogmas, and it dooms them to repeat the miseries and the wars of the past in the future.
		And we could get away with that till this new century.
		We are too many of us, and it's too much a globally interconnected society for this fossilized tradition and habit to continue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's try this out on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are one of the world's acknowledged experts, if not the best, on Nostradamus.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's what they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what they say.
		All right.
		So with regard to what Nostradamus prophesied, in what way do you think that he was able to discern these prophecies?
		Would you call that a miracle?
		Would you call that an artifact of an unusual living mind?
		Do you think he was genetically in some way different?
		Or do you think?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He thought he was, in our modern terms, genetically different.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He said it was a hereditary gift that would die with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting.
		Factually speaking, his son attempted to write prophecies, probably was partially responsible for a bunch of forgeries called the Sixians, which were pretty bad prophecies.
		And basically, it shows from his family line dying out that, at least factually, his prediction came true.
		It died with him.
		So that's the facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, with the reception of Nostradamus himself.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, after studying him for 30 years, I simply know from my own understanding that it seems that many of these prophecies do come true.
		The problem is trying to kind of clean them of first Nostradamus' cultural filters and then the interpreter's cultural filters.
		And in a way, much of my journey with Nostradamus has helped me kind of confront my own biases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, see, that's where I was going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, shouldn't you regard the prophecy of Nostradamus, anybody's interpretation, including your own, with the same modern, skeptical view as you do the world's religions?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In every book that I write, I always put in the beginning a proviso for everybody to remember that I am just as filtered and biased and struggling with these things as everybody who's reading.
		And I'm just sharing my insight.
		Now, the thing is, I can't say, in my opinion, 10,000 times on every sentence since it's a speculative work.
		So I put that in the beginning of my books.
		And often, even though, I do come back and talk about the fact that this is how I see it, I have to trust and the responsibility of the reader that, and I do think it's the responsibility of the reader to understand that, especially if I've said it in the beginning, that these books will ultimately reflect who John Hoag is and what he's after and how he's evolving with his own life.
		And I contend that nobody on the planet Earth, as long as they have an ego, can be objective.
		Everyone has a filter of one thing or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your particular personal bias is to believe that Nostradamus had the power of prophecy.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In my own bias and in my own examination, I say yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you an example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can hear the echoes out there of, aha, you know, all right, listen, we'll pick up on that when we come back.
		It's already the top of the hour, so stay right where you are.
		And we're going to talk about the prophecies of Nostradamus shortly.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
		A girl to hold in my arms and know the magic of her charms.
		Cause I want a girl to call my own.
		I want a dream lover So I don't have to dream alone I want a dream lover Only in America, and the guy from anywhere goes to sleep upon her and wake up familiar.
		Only in America, and the kids will have a sex.
		And the break and maybe grow up to be friends.
		Only in America.
		A lucky girl like you or a poor boy like me in America.
		And the kids who watch it fire.
		Giant steps and retries.
		In America.
		The dream like this.
		The skylight dreams.
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am getting some indication from some listeners that there has been arrests in Seattle.
		You remember that shipyard shooting a while ago?
		Two dead, two injured?
		There's apparently breaking news in Seattle, which I would like to confirm that a suspect has been arrested in that case, and if so, that is news.
		My guest is John Hogue, and we're about to delve into the world of terrorism.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Well, yeah, once again, one of the world's great experts on Ostradamis, here is John Hoag.
		And John, welcome back.
		Yeah, let's shift a little bit.
		And as you pointed out in the introduction you sent me to read, which I, for the most part, did, if Y2K was a bust or sort of a little tiny bug as compared to a big one, then the threat of terrorism and boy, the FBI was running around like crazy and everybody was expecting the worst.
		They canceled stuff in Seattle.
		Other concerts and stuff were canceled.
		Everybody was scared to death and not one thing that I know of occurred.
		Not one.
		Now, does that fit in?
		Goodness.
		Well, thank goodness.
		Yeah, that's what I said about Y2K too.
		Thank goodness.
		But does that fit in with prophecy?
		Or is prophecy now in some doubt?
		Or has it lost credibility?
		As what Nostradamus predicted lost credibility?
		I mean, we have July, August, then finally to September, Nada.
		Nothing happened.
		We can now state conclusively since your last interview.
		So what about Nostradamus?
		Is he losing it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, what may be losing it is the popular interpretations of our times about Nostradamus.
		But first, before we get into that, one thing that people got to understand about what I do with prophecy, how I interpret it is my understanding of prophecy, is that it's there to warn us to do the right thing.
		There's two kinds of schools for prophets.
		Some people like to make prophecies just to be right, and that's all it's about for them.
		I'm not of that school.
		I'm about heeding these warnings so that we can avoid these things.
		We're supposed to make Master Dhammas wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, nobody likes that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's the ego.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The ego doesn't like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like Y2K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People prepared and they listened to the prophets of doom with regard to Y2K, and then when it did not happen, it's like they were angry.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		And I would say to those people, look inside and see what's going on there.
		What's this anti-life number going on there?
		The thing that I was very happy when these things come and go.
		I'd like to think that the debate concerning our future, when it becomes so pervasive, might have in some way influenced our FBI and our security systems and everybody in general to be a little more self-reliant and prevent disasters.
		I'm all for prevention.
		I hate hindsight and successful prophecies.
		I hate it.
		I'd love to see everything that's dire in my books never happen.
		And the way to do that is to look at the warnings and to see what we can do today to make that not happen.
		I mean, it was a year before all this happened, around August of 98, that I was invited by Unsolved Mysteries to come down to L.A. and take this show with them.
		And I decided to do it because what I thought would be good, it had a lot to do with Y2K, even though mine was more specifically about Nostradamus and what is still yet to come, which is with the weather and all of that.
		The thing I reasoned was that it's important to do these shows, even if, as usual, the mainstream TV gets it all wrong and puts you out of context and all of that.
		But the important thing that made me want to do it was that, okay, let's get this into the public eye.
		Let's get people thinking about it on a mass level.
		Because what I hope will happen is the dire disasters of Y2K will be prevented because, and look, you know, $3 billion, $100 billion later and all the preparations, people heeded the warnings.
		I consider the Y2K humbug as being the great prophetic success story.
		And I'm hopeful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm hopeful that we'll do the same with terrorism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened with terrorism with regard to the Millennium?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, surely a bunch of terrorists had to be planning bad, nasty stuff to coincide with the millennium change.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've had 16 arrests so far.
		I think there was one just a few hours ago.
		It seems that perhaps because people were warned, people were extra vigilant in our agencies, and it looks like we might have broken up that attempt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, our FBI has been really good at that.
		They really have had.
		You know, I give them a lot of raps on a lot of areas.
		I've done that over the years, but I'll tell you, the FBI really has done a bang-up job.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to congratulate them on your show.
		I think they keep on going, guys, because we've got it.
		And the other thing that's so important is we've got to remain ever vigilant because the prophecies, as I understand them, not only with Nostradamus and with others, looks at 1999, July, as the beginning of a 27- to 30-year period where we have to be extra vigilant about terrorism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, but what would the FBI do about the King of Terror?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the King of Terror is a very interesting statement.
		One thing I've been trying to say to people is that it could be about the third Antichrist, who is a terrorist, but it's also important to leave the door open for it to be something else.
		There's nothing that says it must be related to the famous Mabus anagram or the other strange coded word rapas, which is the weapon of the Antichrist.
		The third antichrist.
		First off, Nasserdamas saw three Antichrists.
		The first he called Napoleon-Nois, Napoleon King.
		The second he called Hister, Hitler.
		The third he called, well, we don't really know.
		We think it's Aleustanguiner or Mabus.
		And we can get more details about that later.
		But the thing that I started saying years ago, I think I even said it on a few shows with you in the past, I always felt that I would know personally, from my own prophetic issues, what the King of Terror was when July came and went.
		And even though I had to acknowledge as a scholar some of the forebodings about that being some terrorist event descending from the skies, I must say in my own instincts, I felt it was going to be something else.
		And so I came forth at the end of July for the Seattle Times and for some other articles and put it on a record that I think the king of terror descending from our skies for the next 30 years is global warming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Oh, really?
		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Global warming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just struck a dagger right through the heart of what I've been working on for some time now, as you I guess you know.
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I figured it might.
		But I am convinced.
		And I put my prophetic interpretive authority on it, that we are at the beginning of a 30-year window where our greatest enemy, perhaps it's not an antichrist, but it's anti-consciousness.
		It's the traditions of waste that we could get away with up until the 21st century.
		But now we're faced with the payback day, where the terror is our own pollution descending from the skies, heating up the atmosphere, creating these immense storms.
		Which I think in our last show together, I talked to you about Anton Johansson, who was a Swedish prophet who lived in Finnmark, in the northern Norwegian fjord.
		And he has some very interesting prophecies concerning hurricane-forced storms hitting Europe.
		And I might, if I can, read those quotes that I read on your show last time again, because I think they mean that.
		Here we go.
		He said, this is 1918 when this man wrote this.
		He said, an unheard-of hurricane raging over two continents.
		I was led in spirit to the great cities on England's east coast.
		I saw ships thrown on shore, many collapsed buildings, and much wreckage floating on water.
		At sea, many ships were wrecked.
		Then I was shown Holland, Belgium, and the German coasts of the North Sea, which all were heavily visited by storm and flood.
		Among the most afflicted cities, I heard the names of Antwerp, Hamburg mentioned.
		Even Denmark's western and northern coasts and Sweden's western coast had suffered.
		Thunderstorms, too, will in those years be devastating and will occur in Denmark, North Germany, and Sweden.
		And these are just some of the collective prophecies that I have listed in 1000 for 2000 under the chapter Hothouse Hurricanes.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's happening.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's happening now.
		I've been saying for years that we would begin to see it as a mass media acknowledgement by 98, 99.
		And that we begin to see the droughts that Nasadam has talked about at the climacteric of 48 degrees latitude.
		That's basically a couple famous prophecies of his saying that on this latitude there'd be a tremendous drought.
		And we're seeing signs of that as a symptom of what happens in the central continental grain fields of Europe, Asia, and America, North America, during this, at this latitude, where most of our grain belts in the northern hemisphere are.
		And that, of course, triggers some other rather dire warnings that we have to prevent, and that are the prophecies about a global famine that could happen.
		Some of the astrological prophecies show the next windows to be after 2010, primarily in the 2020s and 30s.
		We have to stop these.
		We have to make Nostradamus wrong.
		Or at least this interpretation.
		And one need not use Nostradamus or any prophet to see that there's something very, very strange and runaway and out of control about our climates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no question about it.
		I don't even think anybody's arguing anymore.
		The top meteorological person in the U.S. and Britain, they both made a statement saying that climate change is now accelerating and that they believe firmly it's man's hand that is aiding this change, not necessarily the cause of it, but accelerating the change.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, years ago I said that they would eventually stop calling El Niño and La Niña just these climatic events as just little quirks that happen naturally.
		I've always stated in my books and on shows that these are symptoms that will not go away.
		They are symptoms of a bigger problem called global warming.
		And now finally it seems that even that is, there's less and less people that are going to just tag El Niño La Nina every year on things.
		So people are seeing it.
		That's positive.
		I try to find the positive out of this.
		So it's almost like it's a climatic version of Pearl Harbor.
		Now the bombs have fallen on Hawaii.
		It's time for everybody to come together, make the sacrifices, be courageous enough to make the changes in the way we use resources, the way we breed and overpopulate the range of the human condition.
		We need to really now look at the things.
		It means we're all going to make some changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you're talking about, though, is really the new world order.
		Because short of that, there is no way.
		I mean, look around the world, John.
		There are nation after nation after nation, second and third world nations.
		And, brother, they want what we've got.
		They want big-color TV.
		They want a car.
		Maybe even two.
unidentified		They want everything that we've got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, all the comforts of the modern civilization as demonstrated in the movies that we export like crazy all over the world.
		Everybody wants this stuff.
		And if they get it, we're dead meat.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So it's, in a way, there's a simple choice in all of this.
		It is not that hard and abstract for people to see if they're willing to open their eyes.
		That all of us, poor nations and wealthy nations, have to come together and face global problems with a global solution.
		And we all have to make the management of our economies and ourselves in a way that makes it profitable for us to continue the wealth.
		We have to continue making people more comfortable and wealthy.
		We have to find ways to do it that's not going to destroy the future for our children and our grandchildren.
		Because we are destroying it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so part of that is going to have to be population control.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One segment.
		I mean, we can talk about one thing at a time here.
		Population control, right?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've started with the key problem.
		There are too many of us.
		I would say that we have to seriously consider single-child families for the entire planet, not just China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mandatory?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Like China?
		If people can understand that this sacrifice is needed so that your children can have a future, yes.
		I hope we don't have to make it a law.
		I hope that people don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this is the home of the free, the land of the brave, the Constitution, Bill of Rights.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I know, but if your Bill of Rights, it'll be the home of the dead, by the dead and from the dead, because it will cause wars in the 2020s with the same people in the future.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		If there's 2 billion more people on this planet, there are prophecies that are waiting to be fulfilled that will show that Armageddon came not because of what was going on in the Middle East, but because everybody's running out of water and food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh, John, there's going to be two billion people more on the planet very quickly.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In fact, 11 years will be seven, and another will be eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eight billion more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you're suggesting that just two billion more and the prophecies, the dire prophecies, begin to unwind.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, unfortunately.
		So I'm hopeful.
		I don't believe in abolishing rights.
		I'm an American.
		I love my Bill of Rights.
		But I'm afraid that if people don't make these choices, like personally what I did, when I lived in India and saw where it was going, and I lived there for the bulk of the late 80s, my reaction, my response to overpopulation was to get myself sterilized.
		I will never have children.
		If I want to have children, I will adopt the already swelling numbers of children in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're walking the walk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I am walking the walk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's honorable.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think it's only fair that I should if I'm going to make these strong statements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, others would say, after making statements like that, there shouldn't be any more of him.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'll get your wish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to give you that gift, though.
		Well, anyway.
		I'm just speaking for some of them out there.
		I know what they're saying.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kidding.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I get the emails too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, but you see, to get to where there is mandatory population control, you're going to have to have a centralized control, a centralized government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know what that means?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, what it means is there are certain destinies that we just have to face.
		Even if we don't want to face them, there's a certain direction that the human race is going that is just forcing it on us to take the challenge of having a global society.
		And whether one wants it or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be or we're not is what you're saying.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So it will happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we either accept the new world order.
		I hate to call it that because I know all the baggage that comes along with it.
		But we either accept that or we die.
		Is that about it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We have to make the new world order the right one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stand right there.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 4, 2000.
		Music Music Gotta get them empty, feed it all through.
		Oh, now mama's gonna do that right.
		Oh, oh, oh, we're gonna kill the music.
		Oh, oh, we're gonna kill the music.
		Oh, oh, we're gonna kill the music.
		music
		Don't know when I've been so blue.
		Don't know what come over you.
		You found someone and don't admit my brown eyes blue.
		I'll be back when you go.
		I'll cry all night long and don't take my breath out.
		Tell me nothing, tell me goodbye.
		Give me no reason to give me outbite.
		Tell me nothing and don't let me cry.
		Say nothing but don't say goodbye.
		I need to teach you that.
		The no.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the voice of an angel, huh?
		Good morning, everybody.
		John Hoag is here.
		Probably making people angry all over the place, but that's all right.
		Most of you can handle it, but not one.
		I've got one here that can't handle it.
		And I'll read it to you in a second here.
		I love piano.
		I just love piano.
		Anyway, we'll be right back.
unidentified		Sounds of the wind
		Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		See, I think there are more secrets out there.
		I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
		You have to either say these are just incompetent people or they're following an ideology or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
		That's what I think is happening.
		I don't think that they're stupid people.
		I think they have a different agenda than we do.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 4th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John Hoag is here, and this is just a little bit of a flashback, but you know, the facts tend to reflect what occurred about an hour ago.
		Somebody, John, writes, you are, just tuned in, and then I turned off your guest, because I don't like to listen to an ignorant person gossip as an authority on such an important matter, and you are need to become much better informed.
		So you don't have to wonder about Jesus as the Son of God.
		Well, see, I knew I could have written that myself.
		I knew that was coming.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's too bad for people who are in that point of view about me.
		It just doesn't work with me.
		My awareness tells me that if I get angry at stuff like this, I give my power away.
		And when people get all flustered like that, are they really thinking straight?
		Are they really considering what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're reacting to a challenge to their faith and belief system.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it's a strange thing because if people are 100% sure of their beliefs, how can somebody like me, a gossip, a dilettante, you name all the things we can't even say on radio that people are saying or thinking right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A worm.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		A worm, a bad guy, all of that.
		Snake spit.
		Yeah, so it's like, I mean, I just laugh.
		I just, you know, some of the emails I get, I just laugh.
		I thank these people because in my meditation, they keep showing me if I'm still identified with or attached to people liking me or not liking me.
		It's also irrelevant in the eternity of things.
		And what's important to me is the truth as I experience it.
		And sometimes when my truth rubs up against other people, it indicates that maybe I'm getting somewhere with it if I'm disturbing people a lot.
		That's another way to look at it.
		You could say, and this man may be right.
		Maybe I'm a dilettante and a fool and a jerk and an irresponsible person.
		Okay, that's fine.
		The other side I would add is that maybe I'm saying something that's shaking a lot of people's slumbers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are.
		You are.
		Now, if you think you're shaking them now, when you begin talking about this New World order, for lack of a better phrase, that's what George Bush called it.
		And I look at George Bush Jr., and every time I see his face, I think, New World Order.
		Yep.
		I mean, it's all over him somehow.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it's getting close to a prediction I made in 1,000 to 2000 may actually happen.
		It seems like I said we might have another Bush and Dole in the 2000 elections.
		And it'll be interesting to see if Elizabeth Dole is his vice presidential running mate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to imagine it's possible.
		A woman as vice president would be good.
		Elizabeth is strong, not like a previous woman.
		And she'd bring the female side of the vote along.
		And, yeah, I mean, I can see it might work.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's also important to understand that I've often felt, at least in my prediction about it, that, and I've been making presidential predictions since 1968, that the next president would choose a vice president who was a woman,
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		but unfortunately the next president, whoever it may be, will have to get through that difficult issue with the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction that happens every 20 years, where we usually, since 1820, have lost a president in office, except for Ronald Reagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he was shot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So hopefully, well, or died, like William G. Harding died, he was elected in 1920, died of a heart attack, or shot or accidents, or if they survived that election period, they usually die in their second term.
		Now, hopefully, fortunately Ronald Reagan made that wrong, but he made it wrong because it was the only time in recorded history, future, and past in our country that this transit of these planets took place in an air sign.
		And what that means, getting down to Earth to layman's terms, is that it was a very light aspect.
		But even then, Ronald Reagan squeaked by just by a few blood drops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was very close.
		Very close.
		Getting back, though, to population, which is really, really, I agree, the core issue, to cut down the population, you would have to restrict people to one child and maybe some people to no children.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would probably give incentives for people rather than to enlarge their families.
		I would give more incentives for people to shorten, to lower the size of their families.
		The other side of it, too, is that First World nations may have to start before the Third World because, as World Watch has reported, one American child will consume 150 Indian children's worth of the energy of the world.
		So if anything, Americans should be the first ones doing single children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Americans are very libertarian, very stubborn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you trust me, you tell them you can't have but one child, and you're going to have a gunfight.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		That could happen.
		But the other side of it is that in 20, 30 years, the rest of the world, there's prophecies that might see us boycotted by the rest of the world as criminals against humanity because we're continuing to waste the resources.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They already say that, really.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, you're saying it, but I'm saying in 20 years from now, it doesn't take a prophet to see where America may be boycotted by the rest of the world because the rest of the world is trying to sort out its issues and America doesn't want to.
		I'm hopeful that we as Americans, since we have been the leaders in the 20th century of so many wonderful things, that we will be the leaders of taking the world into a, still into a prosperity, but a prosperity that's not going to destroy the future for our kids.
		And the way we're wasting 4% of the Earth's population is using 25% of the Earth's resources and making 25% of global warming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can't go on.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're the criminals here.
		I'm sorry.
		I know it's a hard thing to say, but it's something that every American needs to look at.
		And we are creative people.
		We'll find a way to keep this prosperity going.
		We're just going to have to look at some changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you don't see that way yet, do you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, the way things work in prophecy, since I said earlier a few hours ago that prophecy, as I understand it, works because we keep taking our tender brains of our children and putting certain unconscious programs into them which make them repeat the mistakes that we made in the past.
		And with that in mind, as the engine, if you will, that motivates prediction being successful, because we're predictable, made predictable, is that we are basically running into the same issue that happened in the 1930s when there were dangers.
		This new decade is going to be a lot like 1930s in prophecy, and I'll tell you why.
		The 30s, they could see the dangers coming in the 40s, but they kept their heads in the sand.
		And then Hitler got strong, and then they had to deal with him the following decade, and 50 to 60 million people died.
unidentified		That's right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now, we are in a similar situation, not with a Hitler, but with our own traditional stupidities, threatening sustainability of our civilization all over the world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The warnings for the Otto decade, or what I like to call, and what the man who wrote the fourth turning named Strauss called, the uh-oh decade, we need to go, uh-oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It actually needs to be the uh-ohs.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the uh-oh.
		It's like we've got another decade to change the course of this and make these interpretations wrong.
		And I sincerely hope that we can galvanize our country and our leadership to lead the world into even more prosperity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's not even a hint of it going on right now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, unfortunately, what's going to happen, I'm afraid what we're going to do is what we did in the 30s.
		We're going to get into the teens, and things are going to start coming unglued, and then we'll have to, rather than prevent, we'll have to do the old unconscious habit of human history, cure.
		And it's because we've been programmed not to prevent.
		We are always programmed to cure.
		And I talk about that issue at length in my book Messiahs.
		It's really a source of we're programmed by what I call propaganda.
		And that is that both Eastern and Western religious traditions essentially, generally, believe that the world is a negative place.
		It has to either be you and get yourself enlightened and leave it, the births and rebirths if you are from the East, or you have your one life here and you are judged in the end of the world, which has to happen first.
		The Messiah comes, the world is nearly destroyed, and then the Messiah lives for a thousand years and then there's a second judgment and the end of the world.
		There's also a similar thing of a thousand-year rule of a Messiah called the king of Shambhala in the Eastern traditions too.
		So they have very similar traditions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, going back for a second to the subject of messiahs and religion.
		Religion is control.
		You agree with that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Dogma, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dogma, it's all right, fine, dogma.
		Religious dogma is control.
		In other words, basically it says to you, if you're a bad person, you're going to be shoveling coal into the big fires down there with the guy with the horns.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Or if you're in the East, you're going to live life after life for eternity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, whatever hell awaits you if you're a bad person.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the Earth is a sinful place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And so it's control, right?
		It keeps the masses from doing what they would otherwise do.
		It is suggested.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you are for thousands of years telling people that the place that you live in is anti-life and a bad place, don't you think that after a while people would get that ingrained in very subtle ways?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And if there is a messianic prophetic tradition from both East and West that says the world has to be nearly destroyed and get really in a lot of trouble before a Savior comes to save us from ourselves, don't you think we might actually be subconsciously, collectively creating that prophecy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Making it happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've wondered about that a lot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		This making it happen, I call a new phrase, armagedonomics.
		The economics of making doomsday and the collapse of the world happen.
		Now the problem with it is that you have a 50-50 chance that once a third of the world's been destroyed, as the book of Revelation says, in all of waters, animals, people, that you might, in the smoke of that post-apocalyptic time, you have a 50-50 chance that you misinterpret your signs and nobody's coming to save you from yourself.
		Now, at the same time, there's another set of prophets that have not been respected by the mainstreams of any of their eras that I've also spent three trips around the world to collect, to show people that there was an alternative to this.
		And it could very well be that what is messianic coming in the future is not some paternal figure, but a mass phenomenon of individuals taking their divine responsibility back from their dogmatic religions and being responsible for their own messianic divinity.
		That if God's in your heart, you don't need a person to save you from yourself.
		You just need to get into your heart.
		And it may very well be there's prophecies that show this is kind of a Christ-free body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, but, but, but, but.
		Here's where I was going to go a minute ago.
		You agreed that it is, that religion is a kind of a control.
		And in recent decades in this country, there has been a decline in attendance in church and so forth and so on.
		There has also been an increase in a lot of senseless killing, children killing children, societal ills that you just shake your head at, people blowing up people, so forth and so on.
		A lot of that going on, and it would be suggested that the missing factor, the God factor, is contributing to this sort of I don't value life attitude on the part of the people who commit these crimes, and if they don't value their own life, they sure as hell don't care much about yours.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That is usually what happens in great cycles of century, and I have in Matthias quotes about that.
		That happens as a symptom of an end of a cycle where the, you know, everything has its lifespan, you could say.
		So do religions.
		And when a religion has gotten old and is in old age, these things happen.
		The fall of the Roman Empire was a great example of this happening once before, 20 centuries ago.
		Things were coming unglued.
		It was probably as bad then as it is today.
		The difference is there were only 200 million people on the planet when Rome fell.
		There are now 6 billion of us, so that magnifies what's going on.
		Our technologies also magnify it.
		But there was murder.
		There's always been murder and war and stuff like this going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then by extension, does that mean we need a new religion?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is happening is, yes, new religious movements are coming up.
		New ideas are happening.
		It's all around us.
		And of course, the established religions, as they did 20 centuries ago, as they did in Hinduism when Buddha came on the scene, and so forth, are threatened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you imagine a new religion that might have success in bringing social behavior back into line again might be?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I understand it, it will be a religion that brings responsibility for your divine nature back to yourself and doesn't blame it or put it on anybody others' shoulders.
		And it will be a more scientifically based religion because the Aquarian age in predictive astrology is an age of science.
		It's not an age of faith.
		In the last 20 centuries, we evolved through the age of faith, where you believe and trust without knowing.
		The Aquarian age, a lot of the prophecies show that a century from now, many of the religions we have today won't, even if they have the same names, will not be recognizable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, maybe we'll begin to worship geneticists.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, we will have to, because of genetics, we will have to find out what consciousness is, because when we can make virtual realities in less than 50 years that are equal to this reality, when we can design our own bodies, the responsibility of divinity becomes even greater.
		And the great debate at the end of this century will be about if we're going to do what we used to think God did, we have to have the love and compassion and awareness of God.
		And that is an issue that's going to be a big one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, the technology is getting here a lot faster than that kind of change.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		So there's going to be some disruptions.
		There's going to be some great challenges coming.
		But if we face the challenges right, we will find a higher morality.
		And we are definitely in the period of an age coming to an end, an age beginning.
		And it is going to be tough for people, as the Hopis say about this purification time, they call it.
		And all of their final warnings have been fulfilled, including the manufacture of the permanent TP in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but save yesterday's stock market performance, which was horrendous.
		Things have never been better.
		And people don't look that far ahead.
		I mean, God, it's great.
		The market was over 11,000.
		May well go there again.
		The economy seems endlessly wonderful.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It looks like the bell of Pacque, doesn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's the 1900s all over again.
unidentified		Oh.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And there were warnings.
		And what did the people do?
		They just kept their heads in the sand and just got into their personal numbers.
		And then World War I in four years changed a thousand years of European history, propelled them into Bolshevism and fascism, and then we had to sort that one out with another 50 million dead in World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So short of the kind of change you're talking about, you think we're facing the same thing again, all over again?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Because we're programmed to repeat the past and call it the future.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And we have to break the programming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have to break the programming here.
		Hold on.
		We're going to go to the phones when we get back.
		Which really, really should be interesting.
		I'm sure you don't want to miss it.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
		Morning, morning, morning, morning, morning.
		You are a friend of mine.
		And if you sing here and line, over joy and pain.
		He opens up our mind.
		And I still can hear him say don't you hate what's going on.
		.com If you could read my love, what a tale my farm could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wishing well.
		In a castle dark or a fortress strong, with chains upon my feet.
		You know that a ghost is me.
		And I will never be set free.
		As long as I'm a ghost, you can see.
		If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell.
		Just like a paper matten novel, the kind the drugstore sell.
		When you reach the part where the heartaches come, the hero would be me.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I interviewed Gordon Lightfoot, the man you're listening to right now, and I don't know if you happen to catch that interview, but it was remarkable.
		Absolutely remarkable.
		I mean, all of a sudden you understood what you did not understand previously about the words to his songs.
		He was very frank.
		Brutally frank.
		It was really interesting.
		anyway uh...
unidentified		we've got john hoag here and he's causing lots of trouble and we'll get back to that in a moment sad music Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast Insider My board operator in Columbus, Missouri at KFRU writes, the Antichrist is OSHA.
		They're going to mandate a smoke-free environment for all Clear Channel J-Corps employees that work at home over my dead body.
		To which I hear a lot of you replying, yes, very soon.
		All right.
		Once again, here is John Hoag and the rock-tossing caller.
		You may remove your rocks from the holster and proceed.
unidentified		Joy.
unidentified		Well, so we're all back then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what, I'll try to touch on a couple other things and then we'll talk about Nostradamus and I'll leave you alone.
		Okay.
		Sound almost reasonable?
		Dead Sea Scrolls.
		Well, I mean, I have other reasons besides just physical facts, but I mean, I can give you some information if you want it.
		Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed that the Old Testament hasn't changed substantially in the last 2,000 years, so it would be kind of arrogant to assume the New Testament has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know, let's say you're right.
		Let's say you have the actual scriptures, but do you have the pauses that Jesus gave?
		Do you have the moments of silence and the inflections?
		Without those, dead words can be applied in all kinds of ways.
		So even then, it's not enough for me.
unidentified		That's okay.
		I've more.
		But even then, I mean, Jesus didn't speak so that everybody was supposed to be confused all the time.
		Most of the Bible intended to be understood.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You're assuming that.
unidentified		I am.
		And you know what?
		If it's an assumption I have to live with, then I will.
		understand there was a lot of I won't get into too much of it, but they threw away the whole page if they made one mistake, and they bathed every time they mentioned God's name.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I know.
unidentified		But are you aware that a lot of apocalyptic literature has...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I've had Jewish scholars tell me that a lot of it is based on Barastrian ideas of an Armageddon experience.
unidentified		older books may actually be may actually contain, may actually be even from even older books.
		I mean, like pre-Diluvian stuff even.
		At least contain references to that stuff.
		I mean, there's truth in all kinds of places.
		If all religions didn't contain some amount of truth, no one would pay attention to them.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do.
		This we can agree on, but I'm saying that you're just, the dogma just holds fragments of it.
		It does not hold the inflections.
		You weren't there in the life of Jesus.
		You weren't there walking with him, talking with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it can very well be that, let's say, yes, that's all true what happened, but I have seen, with the frailties of human beings, that I've seen living mystics in this time die and have their teachings immediately get altered and changed and politicized.
		Which Buddha, when he died, that all his disciples split into 32 sects.
		There were 31 versions of the Quran around when Muhammad died.
		Which one was the right one, and which one did they burn?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, I've got a quick question for you.
		Go.
		Wasn't there something about there shall not be any other gods before me?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you really said that, doesn't that mean there's other gods?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		Do you consider wooden idols a god?
		I take literal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I'm using the literal words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Why does God have to be letting me response now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you had a question about Nostradamus.
unidentified		Yeah, well, okay.
		Moving on.
		Are you at least familiar with, and I haven't bumped in a lot of people that know about this, but I saw it on the History Channel, the business, what the Allies did before we got involved in World War II?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		DeWaul and Karl Ernst Kraft.
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Karl Ernst Kraft was the Nazi astrologer, Swiss German fellow who worked for Goebbels.
		There are about six entries in Goebbels' diaries about using Nostradamus as propaganda.
		And Louis DeWaul was Churchill's counter-propagandist.
		The irony about it is that the first fellow from the German side was actually sincere about it.
		The other man wasn't so sincere.
		And it could very well be that Nostradamus' warning to his countrymen was used against them in World War II.
		A good argument for why he was so obscure.
		So that it wouldn't have happened.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure if we're actually talking about the same thing, but that the Allies, knowing that Goebbels was very fond of astrology and Nostradamus, assumed that Hitler was and printed up 20 modified some of Nostradamus' prophecies and distributed 20,000 copies in Germany of modified prophecies.
unidentified		Are you familiar with those?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and also Hitler was not a big lover of astrology.
		And Garibals, if you read his diaries, will tell you that he says, I don't believe in much of this, but I know the French just love this stuff.
		I'm paraphrasing, but essentially this is what he said.
		You know, his wife was into it, and he just thought it would be a great device for propaganda.
		He personally thought it was bunk.
		Well, okay, but then the fragment of some scripture.
		This is Gerbel's stuff.
		It's right there for you to read.
unidentified		I don't have a problem with Gerbel liking or not liking astrology.
unidentified		I just wondered if you were aware that the Allies had changed some of them and distributed a portion of material.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, if you had read my six books on Nastradamus, you would know that I've spoken extensively about this.
		And I'd certainly be more interested in your criticisms if you had actually read my works.
		So obviously you haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, for propaganda purposes, it is so.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, as I said, Louis de Wool and another bank of people for Churchill's side were actually producing erroneous Nostradamus quatrains.
		And the fellow on the German side that was doing them for Goebbels actually was a very gifted astrologer and did make some documented predictions using Nostradamus that came true.
		His problem was that he couldn't find Hitler winning the war.
		And he had enough honesty about it to really be frustrated by this because he was pro-Nazi and he didn't like that.
		He couldn't find Hitler winning the war.
		The irony is that Churchill, on the side that did win the war, were just making things up.
		He was really trying to find whether Hitler was going to win.
		And when he didn't, he had a nervous breakdown.
		He was also one of the victims of the great purge of occultists that took place after Rudolf Hess flew to England to make peace on his own volition.
		And basically, Hess was the most occult-oriented of the hierarchy of the Nazis.
		So Kraft was, the German Nostradamus scholar, was put in jail.
		He continued to write pamphlets, but by 43 he was being shipped to Buchenwald, where he died on the way of typhus.
		It's a very tragic story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you'd lived at that time, you'd have been on the same merry-go-round?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't think so?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hogue.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Josh from St. Charles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Josh.
unidentified		I'm an ex-Christian.
unidentified		So I'm an ally of his.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that an ex-Christian?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I don't have allies.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Don't assume you're my allies.
unidentified		Well, I'm a scientist, too, so I'll probably be going to that big fiery pit with you.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, you know, the nice thing about the fiery pit, there was this wonderful story I heard from a guru named Osho in India.
		He was like saying, you know, I'd rather go to hell, he said, because there I will find all the wonderful people like Socrates and Pythagoras and all the great artists and all the great people who lived life passionately, maybe overly passionately.
		They'll be very colorful, interesting people.
		And he thought, you know, with time, he felt that he could probably, all those people would probably convince the devil to make their place even better than heaven so that people would be bored and want to go down there and have some fun.
unidentified		Yeah, you know.
unidentified		Like, heck, you could probably go see Nostradamus down there and say, hey, you were right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know, well, you know, it seems, you know, when I look at all the people who, you know, want to go to heaven, you know, the saints and all the, you know, God, imagine sitting with a bunch of saints who drank bread and water and starved themselves and flagellated themselves and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've wondered about that a lot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to be there.
		So I get back to that place where I'm standing naked with everybody else at the end of time.
		I think I'd volunteer to go to hell because there's more of a chance that something can happen because, I don't know, sinning people, people who are human, people who make mistakes, people who aren't so perfect, my kind of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you may get your wish.
unidentified		Wait, I hope so.
		Hold on, Art.
		Well, what I wanted to say is I agree with you on this whole thing because, well, for one thing, I've actually seen, I admit, I've seen a couple vision, I have seen a whole bunch of visions over my life and youth, specifically involving this end of the world scenario.
		And the most reoccurring thing in the visions is the cause is simple.
		Stupidity.
		That is the cause.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with you.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's why we've got to stop it from happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I don't necessarily disagree with that.
		There's a lot of stupidity going on.
		Real stupidity.
		Serious, world-ending stupidity.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know what was wonderful, Art, about the thing that happened in the millennium?
		You know, everybody was, the shadow of terrorism was hanging around us.
		But, you know, that was the first time in history that we had this huge party, this huge positive celebration.
		And even though even some places canceled, the vast majority of people celebrated.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I think that that celebration, that energy, not only added to extra vigilance, a greater mass celebration of life on Earth, I think it just made it too hard for terrorists to go out and bomb people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it was almost as close as you're going to see to a miracle on Earth, that 2000 came and went without a terrorist action.
		In fact, the terrorism that was going on, the people got released on the airplane and all that got cured.
		It was just amazing to go through the Millennium Change without one act of terrorism.
		What are the odds against that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		They were huge, and I was so hoping it would happen, hoping against hope.
		But, you know, it sort of fulfills some of these prophecies about this Christfield or Buddha field idea that may be the real messianic experience coming in the next century.
		It's people being positive and aware and loving and celebrating life that creates a collective force in our natures as a race that makes it somehow harder for people who are in life negativity, who want to hurt people, to do anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is worthy of consideration.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Andre.
		I don't know if you remember me.
		I sent you a CD that I made on Nostradamus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember you, Andre.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		And you flattered me ultimately when you read a little incantation.
		You opened your birthday show with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Something about a thousand fleas.
		Anyhow, John, it's a pleasure to speak with you.
		Your books were very instrumental in me wanting to get into it.
		I'm not really a professional.
		I guess you'd call me a Nostradileton.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I started as one, too, so it's where one starts.
unidentified		But at any rate, this Engelmois character really got me going.
		I mean, I took that word apart inside out.
		I anagrammed it inside.
		I came up with 175 different things that actually made sense.
		Aside from the fact that Mongol is as easily deciphered out of it, I came up with another anagram.
		It spelled Suleiman.
		And when I did some more research, and I mean, I poured through books and books and books, trying to put something else together, trying to find other clues in the word, I found out that the ancient word for Angora was Angola, long before the Portuguese ever went down into Africa, like when they had the silk roots and stuff, like way back before the Middle Ages even.
		And so I seem to think that it's somebody that's going to be from Turkey that might come out, as opposed to somebody from the far, far east, like a Mongol, like a Genghis Khan or something, because Suleiman was called the Magnificent.
		And I was wondering what you thought about that.
		Well, I tried to place the time of it for the seventh month, because he's kind of obscure.
		I noticed in Nostradamus, he leaves, in that particular quadrain, he left the word and out.
		He doesn't say like 1999 and seven months.
		He just says seven months.
		So it makes you wonder, well, something might happen for seven months from the sky.
		I'm wondering about these contrails and chemtrails.
		Like I'm up in Reno here.
		When I was in L.A., I couldn't see it, but I've been seeing them spray in patterns.
		I mean, I've been taking the log now for like two months.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you know, before you go too far, let's catch a few of your many interesting comments.
		Yeah, I mean, the non-mil nef non-nant nef sepoi, you know, that's the first line.
		And yeah, it's very jerky in a classic Mastodamus ellipsis game where he drops all important linking words.
		It leaves it open to interpretation.
		I've pulled my hair out for 20 years dealing with that.
		So it does leave it open.
		It's a very interesting interpretation about Suleiman.
		It's important for people to understand that Master Damas, when he talks about the East, there's a good chance he's also talking about the Near East, because his prophecies, as far as his remote viewing is concerned, get more and more detailed the closer you get to southern France.
		They get more vague and less numerous when you go beyond.
		So that is something to consider.
		But it it's a real mind field to try to untangle Nostradamus.
		And the only way I deal with tiptoeing through that mind field without my interpretations boiling up on my face too many times, although they do anyway, is I had to spend some time to do as best a job as I could to get into the head of Nostradamus.
		I had to look at his astrology.
		I had to look at the world he lived in, the things that were available, the kind of French that he would speak.
		I had to assume that just because I'm English doesn't mean that he was that interested in English variations of anything.
		He was very Gaelic.
		He saw the world through French.
		And so I had to get into French reality, French history, the whole thing.
		And my theory is that, you know, you have to really get fr rooted into his biases, get into his cadences of his weird language.
		You've got to turn over every one of those 36,200 words of his prophecies again and again and again and see them in all their variations.
		But also at a certain point, you just really get lost in anything there, and ultimately, there's a higher chance that you get kind of caught in your own fly, your own, fluttering around in the fly paper of his obscurity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you were sort of toying with him with this anagram thing.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me get your reaction to the Bible code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how much difference is there really between toying with anagrams and the science of the Bible code?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Or do you...
		There's a big difference because in the volume of words in Nasr Damas, very a handful of them are anagrams.
		About 100 out of 36,000, not a lot of words.
		So there's a lot of other words that you can use.
		It's not purely fixed in one kind of idea as the Bible code is, which is a variation I've seen books like Theomantics and others where people have taken the ancient words, which all have numbers represented behind the letters, and kind of spell it out mathematically.
		I've seen, I have in my possession, my library, several attempts at this in the past, the Bible code being the most recent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		This is what I would pose to the author of the Bible Code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		We'll pick up on that after the bottom of the hour.
		Just curious, playing with words, playing with numbers.
		Is it all that different, really?
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
		She's got Betty's Day inside.
		She's kind of music on.
		You won't have to think twice.
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		How the best has just to please you.
		She's a coach, and she knows just what it takes to make a program.
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		When you're watching to think you're losing sanity.
		Oh, humanity.
		Oh, it's a no way out.
		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		You're listening to Ark Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 4th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From a factser, the following, Hogue is a dichotomy that condemns apocalyptic Christians yet believes we are headed for an apocalypse if we don't curb population growth and natural resource consumption of dichotomy, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll ask.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure, John, as a dichotomy, really, not when you really rip this apart a little bit.
		It says you condemn apocalyptic Christians, yet believe we're headed for an apocalypse who don't curb population growth and natural resource consumption.
		Not really.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, first art, I really liked that observation.
		I thought because it gives me an opportunity to say something that, you know, I remember Walt Whitman once made the statement in one of his poems that I'm big enough to contain all contradictions.
		And I think that is part of the human potential of all of us.
		The more universal one becomes, of course, it just seems logically possible that the more contradictory we might appear in our statements.
		I am not condemning the people who believe in this.
		Let's get this clear, everybody out there.
		I want the stones to get the right target.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was something about stupidity.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I am condemning the belief, never the people.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There's no one out there that I'm condemning.
unidentified		I love people, but I hate unconscious beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it's a stupid belief.
unidentified		Exactly.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I want to make that clear because I don't want people to misunderstand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll make them just as angry.
unidentified		It won't matter.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather people be angry for the right reasons than for misunderstanding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
		All right.
		Very good.
		First time caller line, you are on the air with the living dichotomy.
unidentified		I'm Miss Perump.
unidentified		I used to live about a mile away from you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well.
unidentified		And you better get back here before it's all filled up.
		Yeah, I understand.
		I wouldn't even know the place right now.
		This is Dave calling from Austin, Texas.
		Yes, sir.
		And about your last rock thrower, I think in 2,000 years there'll probably be 20,000 bits and fragments of manuscripts that theologians will argue over that might have names like David Koresh and Heaven's Gate on them.
		They might.
		There have been people handing out tracts since Ugg thumped Gug on the head.
		I was raised a Baptist, and I like to tell people I used to be a Christian, but then I got saved.
		And I had a life-changing event happen right out there in Perump on what we used to call the Highway of Death, 160 between Perump and Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four lanes now.
unidentified		Yeah, I understand.
unidentified		Back then it was two-lane mountain road with no halfway desert, halfway through the mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were a lot of crosses on the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of people died on that road.
unidentified		I put one of them up myself.
unidentified		And I lost a wife there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm so sorry.
unidentified		And there's nothing like having watching someone you love die violently.
		That's right.
		To have life kick you out of your boxes and out of your preconditions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		And I was raised a Baptist, and that kicked me out of my little box of fear and made me start looking very hard at spiritual matters and spent a lot of years at it.
		And I'd like to get your guests' opinions on a couple of observations.
		First off, I have a lot of compassion for people who are still stuck in Christianity because being raised a Baptist, I was just absolutely engulfed in fear.
		And I was given this little box to live in, and the walls were built of fear, and I was told that outside this box was hell.
		And if I didn't accept all these precepts of this God who I couldn't understand, who didn't make any sense to me, but I'd better be afraid of him, that I was going to be thrown out and burned this lake forever.
		And a lot of people cling to this because they're scared, and they don't know any better.
		But I came to find that Christianity didn't work for me anymore, excuse me, I'm a little nervous, for two basic reasons.
		I'd like to state those precepts and hear an opinion of them.
		First off, Christianity is based, I believe, on yet another interpretation of the ancient rite of the blood of the innocent paying for the sins of the guilty.
		And that goes back to Baal worship, the Inca gods, dozens of pagan religions from prehistory where our personal responsibilities are taken away from us and heaped on some innocent person.
		And I find that immoral.
		I find it immoral that some innocent must pay for what someone guilty has done.
		And the second reason I find Christianity doesn't work for me and I find it immoral anymore is the concept of how it strips freedom and personal responsibility in another way.
		Let me give you an example.
		The concept of salvation through grace, okay, being a free gift.
		Okay, let's assume here's a thought experiment.
		You're standing here and a guy walks up to you with a suitcase.
		He's got a suitcase in one hand and he's got a gun in the other hand.
		He walks up to you and he says, in this suitcase is a million dollars.
		He says, you can take this million dollars.
		It's a free gift.
		But if you don't take it, I'm going to shoot you in the head and kill you.
		Okay?
		Now, the fact that a million dollars is nice is irrelevant.
		What fool is going to say, okay, I don't want your free gift, so kill me.
		There's no difference between that and a God who would walk up to you and say, either accept my free gift of salvation and grace, or I'm going to burn you in hell forever.
		There's no choice here.
		There's no grace here.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that was exactly the thing that I was struggling with in my teens.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You said it very eloquently, and I really struggle with it.
unidentified		I mean, this is blackmail.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		This is immoral.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is blackmail.
		And this is not free choice intended by the original founders of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or any of them.
		This is the dogma that's come after.
		This is the myth-making and the politicizing that came after.
		I don't blame Jesus, Buddha, or any of the mystics for this.
		It's just a bad habit.
		When you say it's immoral, yeah, you could say that.
		For me, I just consider it primitive.
		And we've got to grow up.
unidentified		Right.
		And, you know, I like the way you put it earlier, which is what caused me to call in the first place.
		My God is bigger than that.
		He is.
		It's bigger than that.
		He is.
		He doesn't need people to lick his feet forever and tell him how wonderful he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A bigger rock, right?
unidentified		He wants me to grow up.
		He wants me to be, he gave me a brain.
		He wants me to use it.
		And he wants me to become responsible for myself.
		In essence, what he wants me to be is like him.
		And, you know, the God written in, like, the book of Jonah, this bloodthirsty killer and the book of Job, and, you know, this crazy madman who kills a man's family to win a bet with the devil, you know, who can believe and love a being like that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So I don't think God's a psychotic, so I can't imagine that's what he really did.
unidentified		Exactly.
		These are things written by men to control masses.
		That's what I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess I more or less agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		I'm calling out of Memphis.
		Been listening to you since three years ago when I first heard you, and I'm going to talk real fast, which you take a lot of the compassion out of my voice.
		I have a couple of questions and then a couple of comments, and then I'll hang up, okay?
		Sure.
		Mr. Hoag, I'm one of those that I'm not throwing a stone Christians, okay?
		And Jesus loves you.
		And the reason that some of them get so angry is because to them, Jesus is the most wonderful thing and to me that ever lived, and he died for us.
		And you know how men get mad or women too, when you speak ill of their mother?
		Well, we're even worse about Jesus than that.
		Are you familiar with C.S. Lewis?
		It's the first question.
		He was a friend of J.R. Tolkien.
		And he said, what do you think of Jesus and who he was?
		You either have to believe what he said he was, and he said he was God, or you've got to believe that he was the craziest, most diabolical liar that ever lived.
		And where do you get all this info that you accumulate?
		You're believing from history and things that you've read or people that you've talked to just like we do.
		Only our book is supposed to be inspired by God.
		Wait, just a minute.
		You can't read Sumerian or Akkadian, probably, can you?
		And this is where you're getting this from things you've read or things you've experienced talking to other people.
		And there is a reverent fear of God.
		And there's somebody I'd like for you to get on.
		It's Hugh Ross.
		He's a creation physicist.
		Can I give you the WWW to get him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, please don't.
		But you can send me a phone number to reach him.
		And it would be instructive and interesting and even entertaining to have him on with John Hoax.
unidentified		He is so smart, I can't hardly follow him.
unidentified		Where do I call for this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you have a way that I can contact him, you can fax it to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can contact me.
unidentified		I don't have a fax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, how about the good old U.S. mail?
unidentified		Yeah.
		All right.
		Okay.
		I'll get your address.
		You'll get it at.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to comment on what you said.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Oh, and there's a healthy jealousy, too.
		And there's a little God in the world.
		No, no, no.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I cannot.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There's no healthy fear or no healthy jealousy in my experience.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, it would be interesting to get the two of you on together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be very entertaining.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any rate.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Bring him on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wanted to comment, you said?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can hear in some people, you know, I respect the sincerity of people who are in their beliefs.
		And again, I am not against the people.
		I am just against the beliefs, which I find in my own experience to be based on a lot of ignorance and fragmentary knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the people with beliefs don't separate it the way you do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You see, the problem with the syndrome of belief is to believe you can never make the first step to inquire because that first step out of belief, you're cast out of the fold.
		You're not in the fold anymore.
		You're alone.
		The whole syndrome of belief forces one to stay in it.
		Now, you may be somebody who can then go and investigate, and I've read dozens of books of people who say, well, you know, I've proven that my belief is true.
		But what I find, whether it's Christians, Buddhists, or whoever, who are saying this, is I notice that they're just basically not getting out of the belief.
		They're just finding things that support the belief.
		Certainly doing 30 years of study in Nostradamus has taught me how people do that with Nostradamus.
		And from there, it went on to studying how people do that in other scriptures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you have done that with Nostradamus, have you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I'm the first one to admit it.
		And people who actually read my books know that unlike a lot of my colleagues, I call myself on it.
		I'm going to write a book in the future about Nastradamus where I will be hard on myself as I am on everybody else.
		That's only fair.
		Now, a lot of my experiences, I have to correct the lady, are not from what other people say.
		A lot of my experiences which have kept me out of, liberated from dogma, have been from my personal examination of things.
		I first had to see how when people hurt my feelings about my religious ideas, I had to first ask myself, well, wait a minute, when did this become my feeling?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But didn't she ask you a pretty good question?
		She said, You haven't read Sumerian texts.
		You don't read Sumerian, do you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I doubt that she does either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but there are people who do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are people who do, yes.
		and I also study their books.
		You know, we live in an information society where you don't have to spend the time to access stuff in a bullet cart way.
		You know, if a person has studied Sumerian, what I do with the Sumerian scripts is I look at three different scholars.
		I don't just base it on the one that cuddles up to my biases.
		I have to look at the ones that refute it.
		And that's the same with the fellow who was on earlier talking about the different translations of the Bible.
		There are so many different translations of the Bible.
		And I look at as many as I can, from Aramaic to the Greek scriptures alone and to the others.
		And I mean, a lot of Jewish scholars contend that a lot of what the Old Testament says from the Christian scholars is misinterpreting Hebrew.
		So, I mean, it's a long, huge battle.
		And it's, you know, to study something, you've got to look at at least one pro, one neutral, and one con attitude towards the issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least you're doing that.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Yes, I had a question.
		Let's assume for a minute that the Bible is correct when it says that God created the earth.
		And that's kind of the theory that I go with because I have a problem with the Big Bang theory.
		But if that is the case, then where did God come from?
		Yes, who is the God that created God?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And if God is the creator of the whole world, then who's responsible for evil in the world?
		Who created the devil?
		Who ultimately is responsible for the world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the devil fell down, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was a fallen existence.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But God created him.
		God created him.
		Who's responsible for his existence?
unidentified		So who is responsible for the existence of evil and sin?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		God.
		In that logic.
		If you're going to look at that.
		That's why it falls down.
		When anybody gives me the Bible, they say, you know, this is the word of God and it's perfect.
		And I say, okay, fine.
		Why didn't God know that the earth moves around the sun?
		And why is it never stated in the Bible that the earth is round?
		It's always in four corners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did know all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was leaving that for us to discover, along with the unraveling of our genetics.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's the case, then he's leaving it for us to discover that his creation is much more loving, forgiving, and tolerant than most of the dogmas of any religions are stating today.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I predict that's what God will show us tomorrow in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hope.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		Hi.
		Good evening, John.
		I'm sorry I'm going to miss you in New York, Art.
		I'm a former New Yorker myself.
		Have a good time when you're there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Hello, John.
		I was wondering.
		I meditated and pondered many years over the nexus that we're coming to, and many call it the apocalypse or whatever.
		And what I've envisioned and seen is a kind of almost like string theory, where there's something opens where all of the earths and all the different dimensions come together for a short time, and everyone that thinks whatever they want to get are going to get it.
		Like the people that want the rapture will get the rapture, the people that want hell will get hell, those that want the idealized earth will get that.
		Is there anything, because you're very well read, is there anything in your literature that you've read or your ponderings that have supported something like that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, yeah, there's a thread through a lot of mystics' teachings is that we are what we think, we are what we project.
		I mean, Buddha, when he became enlightened, said the whole world became enlightened when I became enlightened.
		And that means whether people were aware of it or not, he saw that he was one with everything and it was all enlightened.
		And that's a common thread.
		So there's somebody, it's not just a special time where this nexus comes together.
		It's, I think, been our reality always that we create.
		Well, we always create our reality around us.
		And most of the time, we're creating it unconsciously.
		And so no wonder it's most of the time a real struggle and a bit of a miserable, fearful number.
		And what has to kind of, I would say everybody look at the experiment of backtracking and seeing, going back in your mind, observing your memories and experiences, and when did these like fundamental opinions and focuses and understandings of the world begin?
		I mean, I've done this, and I've been very shocked and surprised to see how just about everything that I thought was me is borrowed from somebody else.
		My name, my identity, my religions, the things that hurt me, the things that make me feel happy.
		Almost everything when I go back into it with meditation shows that I'm just a collection of borrowed ideas.
		That's what the Greek word idios, idiot, means.
		And I'm certainly, certifiably, an idiot.
		That's what meditation has shown.
		Now, once that is seen, one then starts the road of divesting borrowed things.
		And in that process, I contend, that one returns to one's innate potential genius.
		Your brain starts expanding.
		Your heart starts expanding.
		There's an intelligence that comes.
		There's an innocence that you forgot as a child that returns to you, only this time with awareness.
		John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Show ending.
		Show ending.
		All right.
		Listen, you can get John's books by calling 1-800-905-8367.
		And you can even get them and burn them if you want to.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Go to your bookstores.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Go to my website, HopeProphecy.com, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, 1-800-905-8367.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, as always, a great pleasure having you here.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so very much, and good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as for the rest of you out there, remember what a great philosopher once said, no pain, no pain.

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