Art Bell hosts Steve Grohman, a creationist minister and former law enforcement officer, who debunks carbon dating’s reliability beyond 2,000 years due to Earth’s fluctuating magnetic field and cosmic radiation. Grohman argues dinosaurs coexisted with humans, citing cave art and the 1991 Lake Erie plesiosaur discovery, while dismissing evolution’s "after his kind" principle as unscriptural. Meanwhile, Peter Gersten, UFO attorney, files a complaint over R.J. Reynolds’ alien-themed ad mocking abductees, speculating it could be a test or even extraterrestrial outreach. Bell invites the company to clarify, blending conspiracy, science, and biblical literalism into a night of fringe debates—from alien ads to human origins—challenging mainstream assumptions with unorthodox claims. [Automatically generated summary]
I found out about this as usual, about 30 minutes ahead of air time.
And I'm going to read it to you verbatim.
The headline is Talk Show Wild Man Phil Hendry Hide for Hartfell Slots Exclusive.
The players involved may not know it yet, but Los Angeles talk show host Phil Hendry is being groomed to take Art Bell's overnight radio slots, the Drudge Report has learned.
According to senior network sources, Henry is being groomed to replace Bell if Bell pulls the plug on his show heard nationwide on 486 stations.
Premier Radio Networks, home of Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Lauren Art Bell, began syndicating Henry this week in 34 markets.
Henry, who uses gunzo phone calls from listeners and set up sketches to mock issues and celebrities, has caused a complete sensation in recent years in Southern California.
The syndicated Bill Henry show is airing weeknights at 10 right before Art Bell, whose paranormal talk show begins at 1 a.m.
Eastern.
Bell is currently doing his Coast to Coast radio program only three nights a week, and top affiliates have expressed disappointment that Bell is no longer a full-time personality.
The situation could reach a boil in early 2000.
Bell reduced his on-air presence after living through a series of personal nightmares.
Bell's son was bound and chained by one of his school teachers who was HIV positive, taken across state lines where he was molested.
The teacher is now serving life in prison for the assault.
Then we have a quote, quote, Art Bell is at the top of his game.
We want more of him, said a concerned program director airying Bell in a top five market.
It is such a tragedy what has happened to him.
We hope he can continue to do the show until the end of time, end quote.
I have a feeling that the person not named here in the top five market probably is back in the Northeast Corridor somewhere.
That's only a guess.
Now, this story...
So that possibly being the case, I mean, it could always be.
Although I talked to the president of Premier Networks about 15 minutes ago, and he doesn't know about it yet.
So it is untrue.
I have a suspicion where Matt may have dredged or drudged this story up from, but it's not true.
Now, if you want to read the story yourself, you can because we have just put a link to it on my website, www.artbell.com.
But as far as I know, none of this is true.
Now, the underline, as far as I know, because again, it says the players involved may not even know it yet.
And I doubt Phil knows it.
Phil has done a wonderful job, actually, doing a parody of my show from time to time, but he is so completely different in terms of the venue of his program versus mine that I would doubt seriously that would be the case.
Plus, logic would tell you that if that was the case, Phil would have been filling in as some other people, as you well know, have been doing, a whole series of people.
So we have Matt Drudge saying all kinds of things tonight.
And you can read about them on my website.
We have the link there for you.
But there's one more thing that I really must do at the top of the program.
You remember Waco, right?
You remember all the negotiations that were going on at Waco, right?
Do you remember all that?
Sure you do.
You remember Waco.
You remember how they continually thought that the FBI was being lied to and the sixth seal, seventh seal, he wanted to complete the seventh seal and he would talk about that.
Do you remember that they played Nancy Sinatra's These Boots Are Made for Walking?
They constantly blare that over speakers to the compound.
And as you know, I'm collecting oldies but goodies for the period of time between now and 2000.
Sort of a long walk down memory lane.
And I ran into Nancy Sinatra's these boots are made for walking.
And when you think back to the Waco tragedy, disaster, whatever you want to call it, some say it's murder.
And you remember the FBI was saying, oh, you know, we'll wait until hell freezes over if we have to to get everybody out alive.
And then I ran across this song today and I listened to the words of the song, the Nancy Sinatra song, and a chill went right up my spine.
And all I can tell you is listen carefully to what I'm about to play.
And as you listen, relate it to what occurred at Waco.
Listen to the words very, very carefully.
unidentified
You keep saying you got something for me.
Something you call love, but confess.
You've been a messing.
Well, you shouldn't have been a messenger.
And now someone else is getting all your best.
These boots are made for walking.
And that's just what they'll do.
One of these days, these boots are gonna walk all over you.
I heard that earlier today and recorded it, and I sat there and I listened to it, and I thought, oh, my God, they played this again and again at Waco.
And you know, nobody ever really played it and listened to it after the Waco business.
And the words are pretty chilling, I would say, wouldn't you?
In view of what occurred, how it occurred.
And they were playing this at the time.
They were saying that hell was going to freeze over before they went in there with the violence.
Damnedest thing I ever heard earlier today.
All right, well, on other things, and I've already taken enough time.
Peter Gerston is our nation's only UFO attorney, filing lawsuits, filing freedom of information requests, and on and on and on, suing, well, the planet, basically.
I'm kind of curious, though, when you remember Waco and how it came down and what happened, and then you hear that song that they were repeating again and again and again into the compound, all of a sudden it makes an awful lot of sense.
unidentified
And it's interesting that you should play it at this particular time now, also.
Reflect on it.
Because this reality just keeps on getting weirder and weirder, doesn't it?
And what's amazing, I first learned about it through an email, and I thought it was a hoax because it was associated with the weekly World News, and I think that's a tabloid.
Yeah, let's sit and think about why R.J. Reynolds would say something like that, deriding those who claim abduction and even talking about aliens and sort of speculating about if they're smart enough to get here, then why do they keep abducting dumb people?
It's not just strange, it's downright weird.
unidentified
Well, that's only part of the newspaper.
The other part is a one-page photo of something that I guess is supposed to be a UFO.
And it's interesting, this object, whatever it is, I don't know if it's real, if it's fake, or it's some kind of UFO.
I called R.J. Reynolds and I spoke to the customer service department.
And they took my complaint down, and I called on behalf of CORES.
And I told them that I wanted to speak to the advertising department.
It seems they have an in-house advertising court.
That's what they told me, at least.
Because I wanted to know what this meant.
What was the intent?
What was the strategy?
What was the purpose of this particular ad?
Did they think they were actually going to sell more cigarettes with this type of ad?
And I was told that the customer service would forward my complaint to the advertising department, and they would get back to me in about four to six weeks.
I mean, if they were smokers, then this tobacco company, R.J. Reynolds, a big tobacco company, would be deriding their own, and they wouldn't want to do that.
They're having enough trouble these days, aren't they?
unidentified
Well, why would they want to deride anybody for any reason, even if they weren't smokers?
It just doesn't make sense.
There's no connection, even to the advertising campaign of Winston, which is now straight up.
All right, once again, we have the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company in some markets taking out an ad in newspapers in which they state, quote, if aliens are smart enough to travel through space, why do they keep abducting the dumbest people on Earth?
He is our nation's only real full-time UFO attorney, maybe the only one, period, as far as I know.
Peter, you say you heard from the man, Bob Bigelow, Robert Bigelow.
unidentified
I did.
He issued a statement initially that made the mailing lists, and I responded to that statement.
And in reply, he stated in his email that I should ask them for an apology on behalf of all abductees everywhere and that they should acknowledge that they have no idea about anything related to UFO, alien abductions, and whatever.
And possibly they might be open to funding research on the topic.
And the reason I wasn't happy is because it's directly, well, not directly, indirectly connected to my lawsuit.
Basically, I'm vouching for the credibility of these abductees.
I'm bringing a lawsuit against the state of Arizona and the U.S. government based on the U.S. Constitution, Article 4, Section 4, which requires the federal government to protect the states against invasion.
The theory of my invasion are these alien abductions.
So these will be the witnesses if we ever get our day in court.
Why don't I, right now, on the air, since we're in all these stock markets until Phil gets here, why don't we say, hey, R.J. Reynolds, if you would like to come on and tell us the reasoning behind your ad, we'd be glad to give you airtime.
And in fact, put you on the air with Peter Gerston.
And we will not pummel you.
We will simply gently inquire as to why you have done this.
Okay, other than the quote which we have here, the specific quote, is there any other reference to, you said there was a picture of what appears to be a UFO.
unidentified
Yeah, that's interesting also because it's one page.
Now, the weeklies aren't as big as, say, the New York Times or Wall Street Journal, but it's a tabloid size.
But still, it's one page with a picture of something in it that's, I would assume, a UFO based on the copy.
So you mean then this quote takes up the best part of the other side of the page?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, definitely.
It's right.
And other than the warnings, other than the four lines with this copy, it's blank.
Basically, it's blank.
There's nothing there other than says Winston also.
But you can't miss this because it looks like a centifold because it's two double pages.
So it must be a centafold in each of the weeklies.
So you get to the centerfold, you open the centerfold, and right in front of your eyes on the left is some UFO, and you can't miss if aliens are smart enough to travel through space.
It almost validates, I don't know if they're trying to validate the alien abduction experience in a way where they don't appear to.
You know, we're reaching the generation now that will finally accept the idea that there could be life somewhere else, another life form, you know, interacting with us.
There's no question there is.
So maybe it's becoming more acceptable to think about that, at least, you know, in a ridiculous type of way, as the SAID is.
All you have to do is fax me and say, yes, a representative would just love to come on art and explain this ad.
Or maybe, Peter, the whole concept was put out something so inexplicable, so puzzling, that it will cause a gigantic controversy on places like the Art Bell Show.
And, you know, our name gets out.
That's advertising in itself in a way.
I mean, you've got to think like Madison Avenue thinks.
unidentified
Anything is possible.
So you're saying that R.J. Reynolds owes me some money for continuing this controversy?
And then probably following that is Stan Winston, the special effects guy.
Well, I just don't know what to say about it, Peter, except.
unidentified
Well, you know what this means?
It's time for the abductees to come out of the closet.
It's time for everybody who has had these experiences to come forward and talk about them and share them and show everybody else that there's a truth, there's a reality, number one and number two, that they're not dumb, they're not stupid, they're your average everyday people, you know, some very intelligent, some not so, but still, you know, you can't categorize people that are being abducted.
At least I haven't seen any way to do that.
There's possibly a reason why they are, you know, maybe a reason we're not aware of.
And not only that, none of the newspapers even mention the story.
He has an attorney licensed to practice law in Arizona who brings a lawsuit in federal court who states that he has evidence, evidence, and can prove in court that we are in contact with another form of intelligence and one aspect is threatening, and no one is interested in speaking to that attorney.
So you register for this by going to your website and saying, okay, send it to me.
It's free.
They get it every day.
Highlights, and then it sends you to the website.
unidentified
Plus, on the weekends, I send out something directly to them, and then we post it on the website.
Cause and effect, if you're not online, then you can subscribe to Cause and Effect, which is the offline highlight of what's on the website and what we sent out.
I blame my computer enough when it really is wrong, so this time it wasn't.
It did what I told it to do.
See, that's why Phil's coming.
All right, Steve Groman.
After high school, Steve says of himself, my desire was to enter the field of law enforcement.
I entered the police academy, attended college for that purpose.
After realizing this was not the field for me, I began in emergency medicine.
I attained certifications up to and including paramedical along with several specialty certifications, trauma life support, advanced cardiac life support, and so forth.
I also was president of EMS or EMS director for the emergency medical service where we lived in Texas.
I have literally thousands of hours and years of administrative education and in-the-street experience in the medical field.
Additionally, I was a successful business owner for 11 years.
Even prior to being saved in 85, I knew evolution could never happen.
This caused me to begin research in the creation-evolution issue.
Since then, we have amassed a virtual library and museum, much of which travels with us.
It supports the creation account and Noah's flood as described in God's Word.
We are originally from Texas, and I was ordained there.
So we have a minister here.
We currently attend Littleton Baptist Church in Littleton, New Hampshire, whenever we're not on the road.
We've just started our sixth full year on the road, I guess.
Over the past several years, he's met with and or corresponded with some of the foremost authorities in the field of creation science and research, including Dr. Stephen Austin of ICR and GEM, Dr. Carl Baugh of Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas, and others.
We visited places where human and dinosaur footprints exist together, along with a variety of marine life and land animals.
We've interviewed people who have been in Hitler's SS Army, testified to the fact that evolution was the primary motivator behind Hitler, really, have seen and or photographed possible dinosaurs,
have eaten mammoth meat, and in fact, still feed it to pets, and several people who have visited and explored ancient biblical sites such as Noah's Ark, and the list goes on and on, because we are independent.
We have the freedom to present information, gather resources, and meet people who have a specialized interest in a particular area and combine it to present a well-rounded seminar that is a real faith builder to the Christian.
Due to the vast amounts of information, those who come in non-believers leave with a changed heart or at least scratching their heads.
Additionally, we have a wide variety of fossils, of which many were gathered by myself and my family during several of our own dates.
How do you handle all of the, and we'll talk about the evidence for creation and for that timeline.
I'm sure you've got a great deal, but how do you handle all of the apparent evidence, including carbon dating processes and other processes that are now coming along, that are dating things back so many thousands of years beyond 6,000, and all the evidence of evolution.
You know, we were all once monkeys and apes and then people.
And aside from a couple of little missing links, it does look like, you know, if you've ever seen the chain, the little picture they show you in school, of the ape slowly morphing into modern man, most of that is true.
There are a couple of guests, but I mean, how do you answer all of this?
You know, there are a lot of assumptions that go into the whole evolutionary ideas, no matter what branch or what avenue you're looking at.
Carbon dating was invented by a guy named Willard Libby, University of Chicago in 1953.
And that was really a short period of time ago.
And he himself said that it's only good for about 2,000 years.
But yet you'll see people today, you know, want to try and say something that's been carbon dated at 50,000 years or 100,000 years or something to that effect.
Well, the inventor himself said it's only good for 2,000.
And the assumption is that the decay rate which we are observing has always been steady throughout time.
Well, number one, they know that's not true, but number two, it's impossible to know if that's true or not because you would have to observe it throughout all that time.
And so the assumption goes in that, yes, it has been steady.
But if that assumption is not correct, well, then the whole scale is thrown way off, and there's really nothing else you can do about it.
But again, like, for instance, as cosmic radiation bombards our atmosphere, it converts nitrogen-14 into carbon-14.
Well, the magnetic field is what prevents the cosmic radiation from coming in, and they know the magnetic field is getting weaker, which means there's more coming in today.
But the assumption is, based on the uniformitarianism idea that the present is the key to the past, and what we observe now has always been going on, you know, the assumption is that it is and has been steady.
But that's actually impossible because with the magnetic field decaying, we're getting more radiation in today than just a few hundred years ago.
So actually, the whole scale is just totally skewed.
In other words, we look out, we now think, somewhere between 12 and 15 billion years to the first objects, mainly quasars that we can see out that far, that have a shift that would indicate that they are out that far, that would indicate that the Big Bang and or the big creative nanosecond occurred that long ago, at least they think 15 billion years ago.
But, you know, the argument goes something along the lines of, hey, if that star is, you know, 200 million light years away, then we must be 200 million years old or the light couldn't be here.
The Bible says he created all light or that light or there was no light at all prior To the Big Bang or that instant of total creation, or are we talking about only man's arrival on earth?
Well, yes and no, but see, the issue comes in where in Genesis 1, the creation chapter in the Bible, it declares what was made on which day and the order and this, that, and the other of the various items that were created, all the way from the universe down to the water and the animals.
Oh, absolutely, because right in the middle of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, verse 11, it says, For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is.
He says he made everything in six days.
And something of interest in Mark 10, 6, the Lord himself talking says that Adam and Eve were here at the beginning of the creation.
And again, you have a six-day creation timeframe that climaxes with the creation of mankind.
And Jesus himself said that was the beginning of the creation.
Well, the Bible, you know, it's funny, just three days ago I was at Westchester University in Pennsylvania, and this kind of question would come up.
And, you know, the Bible is, I don't know, I've pretty well proven itself, I guess, is one way to put it.
You know, you have just literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of prophecies that were certainly fulfilled.
And in fact, take Jesus Christ himself.
I mean, there were over 300 prophecies that were fulfilled.
Well, that cannot be a coincidence.
And when you take all of the total of the Bible from beginning to end and you read it and study it and compare it and whatnot, it just, it cannot have been a coincidence.
Well, God knows some trick we don't, because if you line up 13 people and they whisper a secret from one end to the other, it's completely changed by the time it reaches person 13.
Except in this case, you know, it's funny because, you know, sometimes on call-in shows, somebody will call in and say, you know, that very argument there, you can't, you know, you get a different secret by the time it comes back around.
But, you know, in the case of the Bible, if you take a look at a, we have a seminar notebook that we have for five bucks.
It's got a lot of neat stuff in it.
And one of them is, one page is a longevity chart.
And it shows, taking the time elements that are given in Scripture for various individuals that are given there and the lifespans of all the heavy hitters in the Bible, if you will.
Well, the biggest reason is, of course, sin entered the world, you know, and everything is just on a downward spiral, which again is totally backwards from evolution.
Evolution says everything's getting better.
But once sin entered the world, then, of course, everything is going to go downhill and degrade and degenerate and whatnot.
But that's just the, that is the benefit of the technology and the advancements in medicines and all of that kind of thing that, sure, there are going to be fluctuations, but still it's, it's,
Well, in fact, there have been a lot of here of late, recent newspaper articles.
AP Wires even put some of these things out just since this last June or July or so.
Of course, some of the ones that we might be familiar with, you know, the Loch Ness Monster, that kind of thing.
And there's certainly good evidence that something is in there.
And up in Lake Champlain, there's a champ up there.
And Dr. Roy Mackle, a microbiologist at the University of Chicago, has gone into the swamps in Africa a number of times in search of Moki Le Membe, who is apparently at Nepatosaurus, which may still be alive out there today.
And something else, we travel on the road.
About 40 to 45 weeks out of the year, we live at a motorhome and we travel from state to state each week in a different state.
Well, what we have is anybody who has ever seen Jurassic Park, you know, the guy is stealing the little dinosaur embryos in the Jeep, and the weather's pretty bad, and it gets all messed up, and the frill dragon comes out and gets him.
And, you know, got the frill around the neck and all that.
If you take a look at that thing and then go to Walmart and get one of the ankylosaurus toys and the pictures in the books of what they look like based on the skeletal structure, they're the exact same thing.
Well, you can go to just about any decent-sized pet shop and see these things.
In fact, you can go to just about any pet store and grab a book on the bearded dragon, the frilled dragon, or the basilisk and the sail fins and all these.
And you look in there, and their names are all something a source, that type of thing.
And they even admit in there that these things certainly look like dinosaurs of yesteryear and comments like that.
And, you know, something interesting about the dinosaur.
The word dinosaur was coined by a fellow named Richard Owen in 1841.
And the first bones that they ever put the thing back together, it was an iguanodon.
And the reason they called it an iguanodon is, of course, it looked like a giant iguana.
Also, there have been two and three-foot wingspan moths and butterflies and dragonflies found in the fossil record.
There have been, and we show pictures of these also, 13-foot-tall hornless rhinoceros frozen, pretty much intact.
And that's a giant rhino.
Eight-foot beavers have been found in the fossil record.
Well, see, the Bible describes in Genesis, the original creation, there was a layer of water which would allow several benefits.
Number one, increased pressure.
We had better oxygen at one time on this planet.
And a layer of water surrounding our atmosphere would also protect us from the harmful effects that the sun puts off and various cosmic radiation, all that kind of stuff.
And that is the main factor in what allowed things to live for hundreds and hundreds of years in that perfect type of environment.
Well, something about a reptile, they never stop growing.
They grow throughout their life.
Well, if a dog grows for a few years and stops, and we do, and a horse does, and a giraffe does, but a reptile will grow throughout its life.
So if you have a time on this planet where you've got three-foot wingspan dragonflies and you've got eight-foot beavers, and they only grow for a period of time and then stop, if you throw reptiles in with the same mix there, but yet they're growing every day of their life, how big is one going to get when it is living for 800 years or 1,100 years?
One time I was in a pet store just a few months back, about three or four months ago, and I just happen to walk in.
We like to go into some of them, especially if they specialize in reptiles.
Anyway, I'm in this pet store, and this guy is standing there looking at the reptile pens.
And he doesn't know me.
He doesn't know what I do or who I am or anything like that.
He just looking at it.
I walk in, and the guy has this really bizarre look on his face, and he said, he looks at me, and he points to the cages there, and he says, look at these guys.
These things are dinosaurs.
And it sort of opened up the conversation for me.
But, you know, it's really not all that hard for people to see that.
Actually, I have been on the air all my adult life.
Years ago, when I worked in Las Vegas at one at KDWN, where I was, where I began all this in Las Vegas, there was a story that ran on the Associated Press about a man in northern Nevada who found some eggs.
And I'll be damned if they didn't have a photograph of this egg with a dinosaur coming out of it in this guy's hand.
Moreover, he then took the remaining eggs and put them in a metal shed.
And I couldn't stand it.
I got hold of the guy and I interviewed him on the air, and he swore up and down this was true.
He put them in a metal shed and keeped them, you know, for the night.
And he woke up in the morning, and the metal shed had a ragged hole in it that was obviously made from the inside going out.
And these creatures had hatched and split right through the metal.
And he had photographs of all this.
Now, maybe the whole thing was a giant hoax, but if it was, it was a well-documented one.
And I sat here and I interviewed him on the air, and he was as clean and sober as you can imagine and swore it was true.
Dr. Carl Baugh has like a baby plesiosaur down at his museum.
There was a guy up in Ohio who owns a bait shop who went up to Lake Erie just for vacation, and he ran across this thing.
A bunch of birds caught his attention.
He walked over, and there is a baby dinosaur laying on the beach.
And he picked it up.
He's a taxidermist also, so he takes the thing home, stuffs it, hangs it in his ceiling from his bait shop.
Since 1991, the thing hung there.
Well, Carl Ball found out about it last December, and he took the next plane the next morning up there, offered the guy three grand for it, and he took it, and he took it home.
I have videotape where he is walking into hospitals in Texas with a cameraman behind him and walking in.
And, of course, people have never seen anything like this in their life.
And he walks in and he says, hey, I want you to CAT scan an MRI and x-ray this thing.
And of course, they can take the image and rotate it and all that.
And the thing has a fish hook in it.
And apparently somebody caught it and decided, I don't think I want this thing and pitched it.
But now Carl Ball has it.
It's stuffed and it's sitting there in his museum.
If folks want to go down there in Glen Rose, Texas, they can see the thing today.
There are just literally thousands of examples of that kind of thing where people have either seen something, well-documented photographs.
Speaking of photographs, we have all the time you'll see in National Geographic or even on the nightly news sometimes, they'll find some new cave.
And they'll go in and I have just literally, I don't know, dozens and dozens of photographs of man and dinosaur in cave art together.
Now they go and tell us his cave art is 30,000 years old or something to that effect, which of course the time element is not correct, but give it to them for a minute.
If in fact dinosaur, the word was invented in 1841, they first put the bones together, and the first one was an iguanodon, that was in 1841.
Well, if they died 65 million years ago, what in the world are they doing in cave art that's 30,000 years old?
But I'm just saying, even the evolutionists, they'll talk about these things and they'll throw this stuff out at us, but we never really think it through.
Because even if that timing was correct, it's impossible for somebody 30,000 years ago to have known what they look like because they're not going to find the bones until 1841.
Well, I don't know what the weather is like there, but if you come out here to my desert and you look at the sky, the Milky Way extends from one horizon all the way to the other.
And that is more stars than you and I can contemplate.
Those stars are suns.
Around those suns, we now know it's highly probable there are planets, many, many, many, many planets, zillions of them, at least trillions of them or more.
And it's hard to look up at all that for me, to imagine there are not other intelligent life forms on those planets around all those suns.
Now, when you look up, do you imagine that, or do you imagine nothing with regard to intelligent life other than what's on Earth?
Well, in fact, in Science News, just I believe it was three weeks ago, they discounted one of the, I forget the exact name of the thing, but it was one of the big hopefuls just a few, just several weeks ago.
Yes, and it wouldn't certainly be the first time that not necessarily on that issue, but just the evolutionists in general have built up a lot of hopeful examples of things that they have.
I know, all very wildly speculative, no doubt about it, but let us assume for the sake of the conversation that such is occurring.
Now, you go through a list of candidates who would be the proper candidates to represent humanity.
And there would be a panel asking questions of these prospective candidates.
And the most provocative of all the questions would be, do you believe in God, the God of the Bible?
In fact, that was the question in the movie that caused the actress playing the part Jodi Foster playing a scientist, SETI scientist, to finally have to say no.
And that cost her the seat on the machine.
That cost her the seat.
And it was a minister, probably much like yourself, that asked that question.
If those were the circumstances, would you think that to be an appropriate question?
I don't, that's all, you know, like you said, it's kind of sci-fi, speculative, makes for good movies, but I kind of like to stick with the evidence that we have on the earth, you know?
It says carbon dating, half-life of 5,568 years, is valid to about 60,000 years ago, far more than the 2,000-year guest says is its maximum.
Also, now here's one you can argue with, argon-argon dating is mentioned, which has a half-life of 1,250 million years and is, in fact, used to date rocks beyond the 60,000-year restriction of the carbon dating used on organic material.
Well, first of all, if see, the assumptions that go in are basically a starting point, which the assumption is around 20 billion years ago, that it's been steady, but probably it has not.
And, of course, like I mentioned with carbon-14, I'm not sure where you got that half-life.
It's roughly close because everything I've always read, and Willard Libby say it was 5,730 years, but 56-something or 57-you know, close to that range.
But you have to assume that steadiness.
But also, you have to remember, I like to use an analogy when I go into schools, because I speak a lot in schools also.
And I ask if there are any hunters, and several kids will raise their hand or whatever, and I'll say, okay, and I'll have a target on the screen.
And I'll say, you know, if you're 10 feet away and you shoot at this target, if you miss the exact center of the bullseye by one inch, if you were deer hunting or whatever it is, bear hunting, you've dropped that animal because that's close enough.
But now, if you don't change the trajectory of that bullet, don't take into account that it's only going a few hundred feet or whatever, yards, but you move that thing out 100 miles, well, you don't even know a shot was fired.
It wouldn't even hit the paper.
And the point is, if we're off just a little bit in our assumptions, by the time you scoop that thing out for millions of years, you're so far off, it's just not even in the argument.
The decay rate of the magnetic field is what prevents the cosmic radiation from coming in.
And see, they're all calibrated off each other and off themselves, and they all have to correspond within each other's ranges and whatnot.
And then, of course, that's compared with the fossil record and all that.
But see, we don't know how much God started with when he built this place.
I mean, obviously, if there was a tree and if there were people and if there were animals and there was water, then you had all these things.
Well, the assumption is that, you know, roughly 20 billion years ago, the grandma and grandpa hydrogen helium had them blow up, and that's only two of the 92 elements of the Earth's crust.
Well, where did the other 90 come from?
And see, the problem is it's not so much as just the decay rate.
I have had every manner of high-powered scientist you can imagine on the air, from people at NASA to theoretical physicists to astronomers, and to the one, every single one of them can answer questions left and right until you ask them what occurred just one second prior to the Big Bang, which they all seem to subscribe to, and they all go blank.
Well, there are a lot of different versions of the Big Bang also.
You know, what exactly it was and when it was and how it was and all that.
I carry several textbooks with me and we show them just right out of textbooks what they're actually saying.
And, of course, it's all speculative.
One will say 15 billion years, one will say 16, one will say 18 to 20.
Which maybe seems close, but you're talking the difference between 15 billion and 20 billion.
That is an enormous amount of time.
And it just verifies right there that it is an assumption.
And it can be an assumption all it wants to, but that doesn't make it reality.
I have in our possession literally thousands of quotes from leading evolutionists, not creationist people, but evolutionists, staunch, heavy hitters, the top-notch.
Like for instance, Harold Urey.
He was Stanley Miller's partner in this, trying to create life in a lab, in a test tube.
Everybody's heard of the Miller experiment.
Well, Harold Urey is a Nobel Prize winner for his research in chemistry and top-notch, you know, in his field.
And he came right out and said, we believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet.
Well, if it's a belief, why is it taught as a fact?
Now, you know what that means, and maybe you don't, but I'll explain specifically in my case what it means.
In other words, I believe in evolution.
I think the evidence for evolution is extraordinary.
However, I also, which means that I believe you are wrong about some of your dating, but I also believe in God, Steve, and I believe that God's hand in the process of evolution is everywhere.
And so I know you object to that point of view.
I'm sure you do.
But I do see that as a very strong possibility.
I think we are more than the bodies that we have.
You know, we're made mostly out of water, and then we have these wonderful, intricate, misunderstood brains.
And we don't know all that much about our brains and about ourselves.
And I think there is something to it.
There's God's hand in this, a creator's hand somewhere.
But see, the reality is, I guess, in many respects, the sad reality is where does a person, and I mentioned this when I was at Westchester University a couple of days ago, where do you come up, I say you because I'm talking with you now, but one of those students there, where do you come up with that?
In order to arrive at a conclusion like that, it's within our own brains.
But I'm going to use the timeline on you as you did me.
What makes you think that we could see in our lifetimes or even several lifetimes the process of evolution if evolution is true and took all that time?
But the problem is, if, in fact, evolution has happened, we should be able to see it in the fossil record or somewhere down the line.
You know, if you have a daughter or a son and you take them to the local, you know, hardware store around Easter time, they have all these little ducks around.
And you want to get a duck, you know, your kids just say, hey, daddy, daddy, I've got to have one of these.
And, okay, we'll get a couple of ducks.
And you put that duck in your backyard and you feed it and water it.
And next thing you know, that thing is growing and it starts to get a little airborne.
And you clip the tips of the wings if you don't want it to fly.
You know, two-thirds of a wing is absolutely useless.
If you go fishing and you catch a bunch of fish and you're in a boat, you know, and you hook a stringer, but you don't hook through the, you know, the mouth of the fish.
You actually go into the mouth and out the gill like a lot of people do.
You put that fish in the water, that fish is going to drown because he needs that gill to function.
We met a little girl nine years old just a few months back that was born without a coccyx.
And this year, her mother had to finally pull her out of school.
Only been in school just a few years.
And because she just has to wear the pens for the rest of her life, no matter how old she gets, she can't run and jump and sit and squat, play, sing, see-saw, slide.
She can't do all that stuff like most kids can.
Now, she's alive, yes.
But the problem is the textbooks say it's a vestigial organ and it has no function.
And that's simply not true.
There are a lot of important items that come together back in there.
As you all are aware, adults cannot reach certain parts of their back to scratch and or slot a fly or other bug from, right?
There is, no matter how hard you try, there's one little, whether you go from this direction or this direction, there's one part of your back you can't get to.
Well, yeah, of course, evolution says you don't get something until you need it, but, you know, they say we lost our tail because we didn't need it.
I mean, anybody that has a child or has to unload something or is in construction or anything, I'm sure you wish you had two or three tails, an extra couple of hands here and there too.
You know, to say that we lost that thing because we didn't need it, that's just crazy.
We're in a different church, different state each week.
And people can look and see where we're going to be and maybe come out and see us or give us a call or email or whatever and see a lot of the evidence that's out there.
And that's sort of the point we kind of ran out of time.
I was trying to make earlier.
You see, without a standard, without an authority, then we're each at will to just believe whatever and however, and those beliefs can change and wishy-washy and all that.
You know, the Bible also describes that there is a narrow road that leads to heaven, eternity with God, and there's a broad path that leads into hell, into destruction.
But why would a Buddhist who's never received the word, who's never accepted Jesus as Savior, why would a Buddhist who has been a good person in every other way that we can measure on earth, perhaps even better than a lot of the rest of these sinners out here, be taking that broad road down escalator to hell?
There are specific examples of that in the Bible, too, though, where until you reach a certain age where you are accountable, where there is no law, there is no transgression.
And a child who knows not anything of the sort, and there's no way he could know, God will not hold that against him.
Well, see, there's an interesting point here that we tend not to think of much.
And again, if in fact the Bible is the Word of God, and I certainly believe it is, then if it's true, and I certainly believe it is, if everybody started from Adam and Eve, and then everybody got through the flood through Noah and his family, in every person on this earth, past, present, and future, everybody, in their genealogy, in their line, they came from the truth.
And somewhere along those lines, they've departed from that.
So it's not God's fault that somebody has departed from that line.
It's our fault because we have been given free choice and we make bad choices.
But nevertheless, it's not God's fault.
But yet he did see fit to record the whole creation, the whole issue, and the salvation issue.
I'll be concise, and I would appreciate concise answers.
But on what you just said, Jesus was asked, what about those who have not heard of you?
And Jesus said, all of creation testifies to me.
So therefore, I think there are people who have never heard of the Bible, never heard of the name of Jesus, but know of Jesus and will be saved anyway.
They know of him by spirit, but not by word.
Well, there are...
I really want to stay to the topic of creationists.
I am a fundamental Bible-believing Christian.
And, however, I am not a literalist.
I think that there is metaphor and simile and allegory used in the Bible.
Would you agree with that?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you also believe that there are generalities used in the Bible?
Okay, yeah, I think I understand where you're going, yes?
unidentified
Okay, now, when we get to Genesis and the six days, are you aware in Hebrew that there are three uses for the Hebrew word day, even as we use them today?
Yes.
The first use of the word day is from sunrise to sunset.
The day-age theory is what that's called, and whenever it's used with an ordinal, with a number, it's always a 24-hour day, just like we have now.
But also, God qualified each and every one with the evening and the morning.
He brought it around.
He used the word day.
He qualified it with a revolution, and he qualified it with a number.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and rested on the 7th.
And, of course, plants aren't going to live millions of years without the sun.
And the sun was made on day 4, but the plants on day 3.
And, you know, so there are many examples of how that's not a valid argument.
And verse number 14 talks about the sun, moon, and stars that were put there for signs and for seasons for the days and years.
Well, if a day in Genesis 1 is really millions of years, then what in the world is a year?
See, all of a sudden, verse number 14 has absolutely no meaning.
So, you know, in order to be consistent, we need to be consistent.
Because in the end of Genesis 1, it says that everything, plant, I mean, excuse me, man and all animals, everything on the earth was created vegetarian.
Well, in order for that to be, then, you know, you cannot have had millions of years of bloodshed and fighting and eating and all of that kind of stuff because it very clearly says that everything that was put here was vegetarian.
So obviously, you know, you can't have those long periods of time in there.
Oh, by the way, I was talking to Linda Moulton Howe earlier in the evening, and this next Tuesday, she's going to do a show with me.
And you know what she mentioned?
She mentioned the coming effort to drill down into the Antarctic, or maybe the Arctic, but I think the Antarctic, and come up with organisms that existed some 30 to 40 million years ago, my previous guests' views aside on this issue, and go get those organisms.
And Linda's a pretty straight shooter, you know, she's science all the way.
And I said, God, Linda, you've got to be kidding.
I said, I was talking about this on the air the other night, and I think it's the dumbest damn idea I've ever heard of.
And she laughed.
You don't get a laugh from Linda all that frequently, but she laughed.
And so I think she's working very hard on that story.
And I think we're all going to find that a particularly interesting program that'll be next week on Tuesday evening, Linda Monghao, this idea of drilling down to get organisms.
And she's also going to do a rather extensive report on the encephalitis situation.
And it's worse than you think.
We'll have a complete report for you on Tuesday, Linda Montenhau.
Now, tomorrow night on the program, it's going to be Stan and Holly Dale.
Stan Dale, and this time with his lady in hand on the phone, Stan and Holly Dale are going to be here, and they've got quite a bit to say.
They'll be here.
We call Australia to do this one.
First hour, Colum Kelleher from NIDS, the Bigelow organization and a sponsored organization, I guess I ought to say.
And then following that tomorrow night will be Stan and Holly Dale.
You don't want to miss that from Australia live.
Assuming we can get a good connection.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Callie-Ho.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
This is my call from Philly.
Philly, Philadelphia.
Yes, sir.
unidentified
I have a question for you, and I hope you don't get pissed off at me.
I had all I could, the only way I can put it to you is I had absolute bliss.
And words do not, believe me, do justice to what I felt.
And it was so fast.
unidentified
Okay, well then, see, now mine, I was trying to get rid of it.
I thought that it was so horrible, the hallucinations, a lot of sleeping and everything.
And so I did get over it.
And the way I did was I found out it was fear of God.
I'd wake up almost so terrified, I wish I was dead.
So finally, one time I says, God, if you're here, you must be insane.
I hate you.
I can't stand you.
I said, I'm going to die anyway.
What the heck?
And so finally I figured out that if there is a God, he would be able to understand my terrible fear at the time and would know that I was irrational or not irrational, but, you know, wondering what's going on.
In other words, Michael Cremo believes that there is archaeological evidence that would indicate there were civilizations prior to the one that we are now participating in.
And that archaeological evidence is shelved when it doesn't fit into the paradigm of those who dig it up out of the ground.
So there's a mile of difference, but yes, they both disagree.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Great, thank you.
I was on hold trying to catch a previous guest, and Intervention stepped in, apparently.
Anyone who doesn't believe in evolution obviously hasn't been listening to your show and watched it evolve over the last several years into the wonderful creation film going on.
I had a couple of really quick holes to poke in the standard creationist argument, but first I wanted to confront Mr. Grohman on his alleged dinosaur that he apparently takes with him in his motorhome.
People like your guest won't accept the concept of slow change over millions of years.
I know.
The biggest problem with the missing link thing that they always throw up is, you know the old saw that you can never cross a room completely if you keep dividing the remaining space in half.
I'm going to have Stan and Holly Dale on from Australia.
How about if I ask them?
unidentified
I would love to get in because they have a lizard there that has developed a light-sensitive organ under a scale in the top of its head that's like a primitive third eye that's sensitive to light and color.
And they also, the creationists always say you can't invent an eye out of nothing because there is no need for it.
Well, there's a lizard in Australia that seems to be evolving a third eye for some reason.
So three of my favorite things in the world, your show, The Best Bumper Music and Talk Radio, and the creation evolutionary flap.
No, look, I think it's good to listen to so that when I talk about how the fundamentalists are going to react to something, you understand when you listen to Steve why I'm right about that.
In other words, if they arrive and there is a confrontation with them and people like Steve discover there are others, their faith will be so shaken that our entire world, this United States and beyond, will be turned upside down.
They allow them to turn the power up, and that's all because of Cuba.
If the stinking Bay of Pigs had succeeded, we wouldn't be having all this problem right now.
Because the Cubans are transmitting hundreds of thousands of watts on our AM frequencies.
And they can hear me down there in Cuba.
You rotten socialist communist pigs, quit it and let our Florida stations radiate.
unidentified
Yeah, because I got to listen to you from North Carolina now.
Yeah.
And also, another weird thing is, like, I don't really know Spanish too well, but I was having an old 50s car, and it has a civil defense symbol on it, you know?
They really, they have no regard whatsoever for broadcast regulation, international or otherwise, and they broadcast wherever they want with as much power as they want.
And so the Federal Communications Commission, commiserating with the Florida stations, actually allows them to run more power at night so they can be heard over the communist voices emanating from the island.
In the meantime, get cracking on the code, and good luck to you.
The way, by the way, to get to 13 words per minute, which is required for the general class license, is not to begin at five words per minute.
Actually begin at 13 words a minute.
And you will think it's impossible at first, but your brain actually has an easier time assimilating 13 words per minute eventually than it does getting five words a minute and then slowly trying to work your way to 13.
You will then reach mental blocks which some people cannot surpass.
So actually begin at 13 and stay at 13 and you've got a better chance.
By the way, I want to point out to my phone company here is another example of what I'm talking about, the little crackle that I'm getting with you on your voice.
So you've probably been up chucking on a pretty regular basis.
unidentified
That's true.
My question is to you.
I mean, I've been like reading about out-of-body experiences, and I've had some pretty trippy dreams, you know, about traveling through the United States and stuff.
And I was wondering if it would be safe for me to do something like that while I'm pregnant.
They would say that your bodily functions, the blood pumping, the heart pumping, the breathing, all of that, the physical things continue to go on with your body as normal, though your soul or your spirit, depending on how you want to think of it, leave your body.
So I think they would answer, yes, it is safe.
But don't take my word for it.
unidentified
Yeah, because, I mean, I don't know because there's two souls in me.
But, you know, to me that sounds like a bit of a contradiction because I hear you talking quite a bit about, you know, how very strange things are getting environmentally...
Yeah, and what you're not grasping is that I defend Wall Street and I defend capitalism as a system I live and thrive in, and I think that this system is rich enough to do the right things for the environment, and that's what I want to force it to do.
unidentified
Well, I agree with you.
It is rich enough to do the right thing.
Unfortunately, capitalism is all too often practiced in an irresponsible manner, and I don't have any problem with it if it is practiced responsibly.
Yeah, but it's a lot easier to pull a gun out of a drawer and shoot somebody than to slip a little something in the drink and they're gone.
But in terms of an instant explosion of anger, if you're having an argument with somebody, you're not necessarily going to have a vial of poison at hand, but if you have easy access to guns, you just might have a gun easily accessible.
Yeah, but generally speaking, they're not as easy to come by.
I mean, if you really want to get one, yeah, you can get one.
But, you know, you can't go and buy them just like that at a pawn shop or at a gun fair or whatever it is that those kids in Columbine are usually able to get guns through.
But, you know, there were certain things that made it perhaps easier for them to access what they were looking for than it might have been in countries where they have stricter gun laws like we do here.
And I'm not saying it's the only reason why we have a lower homicide rate, but we do have a lower per capita homicide rate.
But yeah, getting back to the capitalism argument, I mean, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with wanting to make money and have a good living, but if you do it at the expense of the environment that you live in.
It's having some short-term problems that are getting a lot of propaganda about that in the United States from your HMOs and your, you know, the Yeah, I mean, from what I understand, you know, the per capita cost of health care is actually higher in the United States than it is in Canada.
And believe me, you know, like there's a lot of people in the United States who, from what I understand, are not covered by any kind of insurance.
A lot of people.
And, you know, those would be people obviously on the lower end of the economic ladder.
I actually have three things, but I don't know if we're going to have time for all of them before you go to the break.
Earlier this year, I was on my way home from work and I saw something in the sky, and I came home, and I tried to call you, and I couldn't get through.
So I called 800 directory assistants and started asking for the numbers for UFO reporting centers.
Okay, so there are a couple of other things that I wanted to pick your brain about.
Okay.
I know you're a movie buff, and I know that you also keep up on world events.
So I have heard that in June, I think it was in June, that a group of French astronomers found something that really concerned them, and they were getting ready to go public with it.
And in July, they were all killed in some kind of a freak tram accident while they were on their way to their observatory.
You're a movie buff, and I was just wondering, there is a movie that I saw, I think it may have been a made-for-TV thing back in the 70s, and it had Elizabeth Montgomery in it.
And it was about a woman who was pregnant and had been impregnated by a spaceship, or a being from a spaceship.
And it's the most amazing movie, especially when I think back to the times that I saw it in.
It was very advanced for those times, and I can't remember the name of the thing.
I haven't seen it in the stores, and I was wondering if it rings a bell for you.
In this movie, was the young lady impregnated by a machine?
unidentified
No.
The only way that they knew that she had been impregnated was they took her under hypnosis, and some slick psychiatrist said, how is this woman impregnated?
And this booming, low voice came out and said, by a beam from a spaceship.
And because Terrence McKenna has experimented with psychedelic drugs, doesn't mean he's going to hell.
And frankly, that's some of what I've been getting, and it's repulsive to me.
I'm sorry.
I don't agree with my earlier guess.
I don't think that people who have worshipped Buddha or Muhammad or any one of the other religions that surround our world and are so common, but do not have the specific word that Christians have are going to hell.
The broad road to hell, I think you said.
I just don't buy that.
But I think it's valuable to have it on the air.
He's definitely a fire-breathing, fundamentalist Christian, and having that on the air is pretty good stuff every now and then.
You need to do that so that you understand, well, actually, it'll help you understand the Brookings report when you read that.
I'm really, it just, you know, you can tell me something, and I won't understand it.
I just can't understand it.
No matter how much you explain it to me, what upsets you, I can't, you know, I went to my group and I asked them, and a lot of them heard me, and a lot of them listened to you.
If you come on and incessantly, every night, talk about nothing but 12-step programs and alcoholism and addiction, then we're not going to get along, and I'm not going to be able to put you on the air.
Now, that shouldn't be too hard to understand.
You've got to try.
unidentified
Well, every night you talk to people about it, and your show is just like a meeting.
You know, people call in and give their opinion, and it's very democratic.
I said to the ladies that dreaming all dreams, perhaps even accepting sexual dreams, which, you know, they're okay.
Other dreams are kind of busy.
And when you wake up, you feel as though you've worked.
You've been through an experience or an adventure or you've been chased by a monster or whatever.
And what I told the girls was that I would rather sleep the little slice of death that was advertised and then wake up refreshed.
So I told the girls.
I told the girls a lot of things I don't think they expected to hear.
But never did I refer to a sex dream as a nightmare.
Although, I suppose, considering some out there that I could consider it could become nightmarish, but for the most part, why your head takes you to good places.
You know, earlier when you were talking with the Baptist guy, you mentioned about people scientists believing that maybe we'd reach immortality here in the next 50 to 30 years.
You know what I thought would have been interesting with him is I actually think this nanotechnology and this idea of immortality along the lines of science kind of fits in with religion.
Because, you know, they say that everyone will be resurrected and will receive a body.
Well, I mean, some religions believe in it.
Of course, out here in Utah, we do with the Mormon Church.
I just did one, as you know, on nanotechnology with Charles Offsman, and I'll do another.
And I'm also going to have, at some point, Dr. Klatz back on.
He leads a team of physicians who are looking into this whole question of immortality.
They're doing the hard research on human growth hormone and telomeres and all the things they're looking at now that may soon result in much longer lives and then ultimately immortality.
Actually, the truth of the matter is I've had on almost every single remote viewer that was in the military program.
I've had them all on.
unidentified
Because, you know, I've been thinking about this a little bit, and I'm beginning to think that the remote viewing and your weather experiments may have some relationship in that remote viewing might be passive.
And some of those weather experiments you've been doing, if you get a bunch of minds together and push, it's like voltage versus amperage, like watching versus doing.
I'd like to hear Ed's view on that, if he thinks there's any steps beyond remote viewing.
I've actually never asked Ed about steps beyond remote viewing.
That's a hell of a question.
unidentified
Yeah, because I'm beginning to get a feeling that when a bunch of humans push in this way, that something could be going on, in which case, if Ed is predicting doom and a lot of people are tuning into it, it might actually create it.
So it'd be interesting to ask him that to see what he thinks about that.