Art Bell

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Sept. 29, 1999 - Art Bell

03:12:12

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Soviet UFOs - Paul Stonehill - Gordon Lightfoot

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01:20:44

paul stonehill

58:43

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening or good morning in whatever time zone you may reside, stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out west eastward to the Caribbean, the U.S. Virgin Islands.
unidentified		Good morning in the American Virgin Islands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Thomas, actually.
		South into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		Thanks to broadcast.com and in Intel for their wonderful mathematics that allows a G2 program.
		It means you can go up to my website, download the free G2 program, come back to my website, and actually see the program in progress if you wish.
		It's all free.
		Increasingly, we're relying on the internet for, well, some people actually for their livelihoods, others just for fun, and others for information, and someday it's not going to be optional.
		It's going to be mandatory.
		It almost is today if you really want to participate in the economy today.
		It's really something.
		The best out there right now is MindSpring, period.
		If you have an internet provider that you are, shall we say, disappointed in, then you're definitely going to want to listen to the following.
		Gordon Lightfoot, as you know, I have played a lot of Gordon Lightfoot's music, and I mean a lot of his music.
		It is absolutely beautiful.
		You will recognize it immediately.
		He's recorded 19 albums now.
		19 albums.
		Has five Grammy nominations.
		See, I can't interrupt this.
		I'm going to have to do this later.
		It's too good.
		You don't talk over that.
		Five Grammy nominations, 17 Juneau Awards in his native Canada, 1970 in recognition of his contributions in furthering Canadian culture.
		He received the prestigious Order of Canada citation in November of 1997, presented the Governor General's Award, the highest official Canadian honor, which is conferred on very few.
		Joni Mitchell is another for their international efforts in spreading Canadian culture.
		Well, it certainly has done that.
		Most recently, Gordon Lightfoot was honored as a charter member of Canada's Walk of Fame, and I assume that's probably much like our sidewalk in Hollywood with footprints of the famous.
		There are so many things you would recognize that he has done.
		Some not, perhaps.
		Early Morning Rain, Canadian Railroad Trilogy, Cotton Jenny, Sundown.
		Sundown was something that really fooled me.
		We're going to ask about that.
		Shadows, if you could read my mind, of course, my favorite.
		Carefree Highway, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, so many asking about that.
		Beautiful, Alberta Bound, and Ribbon of Darkness.
		He has, I'll tell you, he has interacted his songs by people like Bob Dylan, Peter Paul and Mary, Ian and Sylvia, Richie Havens, Glenn Campbell, Ann Murray, Harry Belafonte, Elvis Presley, Elvis Presley, Barbara Streisand, and George Hamilton IV.
		And here is Gordon Lightfoot.
		Gordon, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		I'm very pleased to be with you this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the greatest honor for me.
		You have no idea.
		I've been playing your music for a long time now, and I guess somebody recently told you that I've been playing your music.
		Is that how it went?
unidentified		Yeah, one of the guys down at the gym was tuning into the program, told me about it.
		You come.
		I thought I would whip off a facts.
		What I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really appreciate it.
unidentified		Appreciate it very much.
unidentified		Appreciate it to play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was so honored to get the facts.
		i hold it up to my camera here for everybody to see it uh...
		gordon you come from Oh, yeah.
		So many really good singers come from that kind of background.
		Pop singers and folk alike.
		I mean, Neil Diamond early on, boy, a heavy religious influence.
unidentified		They get a little religion thrown in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pointer sisters.
		All of them son of a preacher man.
		You know, did a lot of gospel singing.
		And so that's where you began singing, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, I got started real early on.
		My mother was into having me take piano lessons as well at that time.
		So the singing and the piano lessons, I got right into it real young.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So music just grabbed you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess never let go.
unidentified		No, I really, I was wanting to make my living at it, I think, by the time I was about 10.
unidentified		I'm sure of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your music, to me, and I guess everybody judges it their own way, but it has a definite sort of spiritual or mystical leaning to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And obviously, that has to come from your life.
unidentified		Well, those are pretty powerful words, Nelv.
		I don't know how mystical it is.
		It's just the way I do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiritual.
unidentified		Try to make it flow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiritual, then.
		In other words, there's got to be something in Gordon Lightfoot's life that allows these kind of spiritual lyrics.
		Like if you could read my mind.
		I mean, what inspired that?
		Can you tell me?
unidentified		Well, probably life's changes at the time.
		I just know I was working on a whole bunch of stuff all at the same time and working in an empty house At that time, and it was just one of the songs that popped out.
		And believe you me, the album was out for about eight months before anyone noticed if you could read my mind at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it hit me right between the eyes and i can only imagine uh...
		it had to come from something in your life i mean these things that don't come from Where do these things come from?
		In other words, when you come up with some kind of fabulous song like this that to so many means so much and is so spiritual, does it come from something that happened in your life, or is it just sort of a creative spiritual moment for you?
unidentified		Well, you know, it happened right around the end of my first marriage, which lasted for seven years.
unidentified		And I'm sure it was reflected in that song.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was.
		It really was.
		Is it fair to say, Gordon, that some of the best out of musicians and artists and all kinds of creative people comes at some of the worst times?
unidentified		Yeah, you just seem to get into it, and it takes your mind off it.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly what you mean.
		In fact, it's impossible really for a while to get your mind off it.
		Maybe writing a song about it provides some kind of closure for you.
unidentified		Yeah, but usually I'm working on more than one song at a time, so I'm into a flow.
		I guess on a binge.
		I used to write songs like on binges.
		And sometimes come up with quite a large number of songs over a period of weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's like a creative ebb and flow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when it's there, it's almost unstoppable.
unidentified		You take advantage and go for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		It keeps you up all night and all day or whatever it takes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may well be that staying up all night and all day and really being in a creative binge, as you call it, is in fact the way it happens.
		You stay up all night, all day.
		You're almost in an altered state of some kind, aren't you?
unidentified		Yeah, that was such a long time ago.
		It's not like that now.
		I have to be much more disciplined about it now than I was then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wrote a song, which I don't have right now, called The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
		And knowing that you were going to be on the program, I got a million faxes from people who asked me to ask you.
		They really, really are into that song.
		And they asked me to ask you the story behind The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and why you wrote a song about it.
unidentified		Well, you know, we made lots of new friends in the Great Lakes area as a result of that song.
		And I do keep myself open to conversation with the people, you know, when they come to see us in concert.
		Sure.
		And one of the very first questions that I was asked was, what happened?
		It was like, do you know what might have taken place?
		I had seen it on the television.
		I'd seen it on TV the night of the 10th, which was, God, I believe it was perhaps a Monday, a Monday evening.
		It was just on the TV.
		It had just sunk just three hours earlier.
		I didn't give it another thought for really for another 12 days.
		Then I saw an article in Newsweek magazine.
		And then I went back and got the newspaper articles, the Toronto Telegram and the Toronto Star, and read up on the chronological order of this thing and already had previously stumbled on a chord progression for a musical idea that seemed compatible with the story.
		But still no lyrics.
		So I took that melody and I'd been saving it and I built a story around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The melody came first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The inspiration for the melody first and then later, the words.
unidentified		Usually.
unidentified		Yeah, usually it's that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiritual again.
		Here's a facts I want to read you from somebody that I think you may understand.
		It says, I, too, am an avid fan of Gordon Lightfoot art, and I've been for many years.
		His appearance on your show next week will be very special for my wife and myself, not only because we love his music, but also because of the following reason.
		My wife's brother was struck with multiple sclerosis in 1971.
		By 75, the disease had progressed to the point of total confinement to bed.
		He loved music, so I introduced him to the music from Gordon Lightfoot.
		He loved all of it from the first time he heard it.
		But there was one song that he especially loved.
		That song was The Watchman's Out.
		Art, I swear to you, the following is true.
		Jimmy ended up in the hospital with complications, was in very bad shape, went into a coma, hung on for a few days.
		While we were there, I walked out of his room and into a lounge area just for a moment to have a cup of coffee.
		It was about three in the morning.
		The lounge was empty.
		There was soft music being played.
		As I sat there, amazingly, Gordon Lightfoot's, The Watchman's Out, came on.
		After listening to it, went back to Jimmy's room to give someone else a break and found that Jimmy had just passed on.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
		Yeah.
		Oh, oh, dear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During that song, and that was the song that he had fallen in love with.
unidentified		That particular song is one that we enjoy playing very much on stage, too.
		It stood the test of time.
		I know that music is good for people who are having distress.
		It is very helpful.
		I've heard about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's therapeutic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I'm having a really tough time, my Sony C.D. Walkman and I get together and I'll just sit down for an hour and I'll listen to all my favorite music and it completely puts me in a new place.
unidentified		Oh, that's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your music really, really does that.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		But I got to say I'm recognizing, too, there's a lot of great artists out there.
		And you've got to appreciate the quality of some of the work that's been done over the last 20 years, let's say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've written for a lot of them, haven't you?
unidentified		I did.
		I got quite a bit of stuff recorded.
		I got some management happening stateside back in about 1965, and I got into a good publishing situation, too, for myself.
		And I had a lot of stuff, and it got around.
		The one that Elvis did was Early Morning Rain, and he did a wonderful job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I love that song.
		Early Morning Rain.
		No kidding.
unidentified		Yeah, oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a great song.
unidentified		Yeah, I was really proud of that one.
unidentified		I didn't realize it at the time, but I sure do now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that happen to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, later on, even years later, you suddenly recognize.
unidentified		Yeah, I was real happy that he did that.
unidentified		It really made me feel secure on the totem pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get to talk to him, meet him?
unidentified		No, I did not.
		But I did see him perform.
		I had an opportunity to meet him, but there was too much going on.
		I'm kind of a quiet fellow.
		The party at the end of the rainbow had passed by for me many years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
		You know, actually, Gordon, I'm kind of a recluse, to be frank with you.
		So am I. Really?
		I love what I do when I'm on the air.
		Probably like you love what you do when you're on stage or when you're cutting into an album and you know you've got a piece of gold in your hands.
unidentified		I've got a family too on the other side and I try to balance the two of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you do that?
unidentified		It's a balancing act, I can assure you, as people can well understand.
		Show business and family and yet it works and we're well organized and our band takes it seriously and it's fun to do when you do it that way.
		We're like a team.
		We're almost like a sports team.
		We go out.
		We're ready to go out there and really do it well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of the year do you spend away from home?
unidentified		Well, I mean, I only play, say, up to 50 times a year.
		And it's done in sort of in sections.
		So we're not like constantly on the road or anything like that.
		And we're really happy to be able to have it organized in such a manner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were not that long ago in Las Vegas, weren't you?
unidentified		We did.
		We played at the House of Blues in Las Vegas.
		We had a great time, and everything went really well there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas is just over the hill from me.
		If I go outside right now, I can see the lights of Las Vegas lighting up the night sky.
		I'm about 65 miles away, and that's how much light there comes from Las Vegas.
		Is that not an amazing place now?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		You're located outside of Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Out here in the middle of the very serious desert.
		Not all that far from Death Valley.
		Closer to Death Valley than Las Vegas.
unidentified		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very serious, remote place to live, and I love it.
unidentified		That is good.
unidentified		Sounds wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, anyway, if you could read my mind, came at a moment when I was a little bit of heartbroken?
unidentified		Well, I felt pretty bad about it.
		I did.
		It really tore me up, as I'm sure it does anyone else that has.
		There's a couple of children involved in it there as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it does, it did.
unidentified		But it came and it went, and I kept writing, and that seemed to me at the time to be the most important thing.
unidentified		So I put all my effort into that and started back on the single life again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, hold it right there.
		Gordon Lightfoot is here.
		Listen to the words now that you know what he was singing about.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		If you could read my love, what a tale my father could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wish him well.
		In a castle dark or a fortress strong, with chains upon my feet, you know that ghost is here.
		And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
		If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell.
		Just like a paperback novel, the kind of drugstore sell.
		The hero would be me, a hero of the fail.
		You won't read that book again because the end is just too hard to take.
		Art Bell is taking your calls from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		I walk away like a movie star who gets burned in a three-way strip into number two.
		I'm a movie queen to play the scene Of bringing all the good things out in me But from now, love, let's reveal All right.
		I never thought I could act this way, and I've got to say that I just don't get it.
		I don't know where we went wrong, but the feeling's gone, and I just can't get it back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now I get it.
		you listen to the words after hearing what was going on, now you get it too.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Gordon Lightfoot is here, and he'll be right back.
		All right, once again, from Canada, here is Gordon Lightfoot.
		And Gordon, you know, now that you've told me what you told me about that song, listening to the words, it goes click, click, click for me.
		But I've got to tell you that before you told me what that was about, my interpretation and that of my wife, we are oh, so close, Gordon, we're really soulmates, and we have talked about what would happen if the other, if one of us, you know, were to leave the earth before the other.
		And that song kind of resonated with me that way, that, you know, I'll never be gone, I'll never be free as long as your ghost is there.
		I somehow took it that way, and I think everybody does that with music.
		They put their own little mental print on it, and it means something very special to them.
unidentified		That sounds like a very acceptable interpretation to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure was mine at first, and my wife's as well.
		And then another surprise came along, and here's where I'm going to pin you down a little bit.
		One of my favorite songs of all time, all time, is this one.
		It's Sundown.
		Let me just play a little bit of it, alright?
		Because I really, really want to know what some of this song means.
		This, and I never even knew it was Gordon.
		Boy, was that a surprise.
unidentified		I can see you lying back in your seven rest.
		In a room where you do what you don't confess Some down you better take care If that night you've been breathing'round my back stairs Somehow you better take care If I find you been creeping round my backstay Thank you.
		She feels like a weed in the sailors breathe.
		She don't say what she really needs.
		Sometimes I think it's a shame that I get feeling better when I'm feeling no pain.
		That'll about do it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gordon, I listened to that song and loved it as one of my favorites for years.
		And somehow, no one ever told me it was Gordon Lightfoot.
		About two weeks ago, somebody said that's Gordon Lightfoot.
		And I said, what?
unidentified		Oh, no, kidding.
unidentified		No, kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, kidding.
		So I want to know a little bit about this song.
		Now, Sundown, you better not come creeping around.
		What does that mean, please?
unidentified		You know, I lived through a time when infidelity was a problem in my life.
unidentified		And it was just there, and it was just that period of time the marriage had ended, and I was on my own, and I was finding out what it was like to see how the shoe fits on the other foot, and finding out that it could be reciprocal on the part of the woman as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She looked like a queen in a sailor's dream.
unidentified		And it's about, you know, there's some infidelity going on, and you don't want it to happen because it's making you feel bad.
		and uh...
		you know that it's going on uh...
		i guess uh...
		issuing uh...
		you know or it is just to stay out of my territory to some of it to someone all that was really actually picking up the you know Picking up the gun and going after him, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I do know.
		Believe me, I do know.
		And then the reference to feeling better.
		That people have interpreted, I think I did, as maybe you were going through this, went back, knocked back Fithajin or Booze.
		Booze, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, I had a puzzle with that, too, but I got that one covered by 1982.
unidentified		But it was starting to catch up with me, I think, at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you were like mixing it up with In Sundown with the rest of it.
		And so it's kind of like you could see how that would be connected in your head.
		Is that right?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, then I get it.
unidentified		I was living on a farm as well at the time, and every night there was a glorious sunset to the west of the farm.
unidentified		That entered into the picture, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever wonder, Gordon, where it comes from?
unidentified		You know, all I know is I wrote the first one at 17, in grade 12 and high school, and I kept writing them from that point on.
		I was a singer.
		I was wise enough to realize that if I wrote my own songs, I'd be in much better shape all around.
		And I seemed to have the capability of doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, but I mean, you did it.
unidentified		But again, diligently for about 10 years before anything really took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still in all, though, here you are today, top of the heap.
		And so when I say, you ever wonder where it comes from?
		I mean, the talent, the inherent ability, the God's gift, whatever it is you call it, you ever wonder what it is?
unidentified		it really was the parental support, without a doubt, in my case.
unidentified		Finding out that I was able to carry a tune when I was very, very small, and it was all it took to get my mother motivated in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Gordon, there's a lot of people that can carry a tune.
unidentified		And she did it in a gentle way, too.
unidentified		That's the nice part about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's like another genius was, in my opinion, John Lennon, who wrote and wrote and wrote.
		And, I mean, there are only a few people like you, Gordon.
		There aren't many.
		And maybe you don't see it that way, but there aren't many of you out there.
		And so where does this come from?
unidentified		Maybe it's just it helps to pay the bills.
		Maybe it was the recording contracts.
		Because when I started to get recording contracts, I said, now I have a contract.
		Now I must produce.
		And I would just knuckle down and just get to it.
		The method was fairly straight ahead, you know, just basic musical theory and the melody and the chords and the lyrics.
		And it's just that simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't even classify yourself, can you?
		In other words, you're not exactly folk, you're not exactly adult contemporary, or what we call that down here.
		You're sort of all over the place?
unidentified		Yeah, singer-songwriter.
		Adult contemporary usually is what the agency would refer to it as.
		I think Willie Nelson is adult contemporary, too, more than he is country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I spent five hours interviewing Willie.
		He's really something else.
		That guy is something else.
		Do you know Willie?
unidentified		I've never met him, but I know some of the mutual friends.
unidentified		I know Chris quite well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have some mutual experiences as well, incidentally.
		Do you ever tell you the story about the time that he was in the bus, and he travels in bus everywhere, I think.
		And a lady friend of his caught him doing something he shouldn't be doing, tied him to the bed, and beat him with a broom.
		No, no.
		He was fast asleep, and she came in, tied him to the bed, and beat the hell out of him with a broom.
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		Oh, that is a wonderful story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of artists go through some pretty tough times, and it just seems like that brings out the best in them.
		Why is it that we have to have these tough times to have the inspiration for the greatness?
		Why would that be?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I sometimes wonder about the people that get hurt along the way, too.
		That bothers me because I have a conscience about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Well, I guess you have to remember that none of us here are perfect.
		And I've been far less than perfect myself.
		I have a lot of stuff I could think over the years about that I could sure be guilty about.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I had to review my life, I don't think I'd like to.
unidentified		Well, I try to keep up my, like, I keep up my family responsibility to to the letter, you know, I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you uh another great Canadian singer that I play a lot of here is uh Lorena McKennett.
unidentified		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any comments on her work?
unidentified		I've heard them, but uh, but they were, they they were sort of uh they kind of came and went.
		I saw them, I know who you mean.
		I've seen them perform, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lorena's really an awesome artist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She has a great range of voice, and I got to see her in concert actually up in Western Canada.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you spend a lot of time with your family?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, it's like I take the family life seriously, and I take all my kids seriously.
unidentified		And I'm in my second marriage now, and I take it very seriously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you straight with your children?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I'm straight all around, and I get a chance to play.
		I can play.
		The very last thing I do every night when I'm on the road is I call Liz on the telephone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
unidentified		And, you know, you just, you know, things like that, you know.
		She knows, you know, they worry.
		They worry about us when we're out there.
		And a long time ago, they had every right to, every reason to, I guess.
		But it's different now.
		It's the work and it's the concentration and the results are what really fascinates me.
		I'm really getting good results.
		And I love to play live anyway, and it is my forte after all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, there's a question I want to ask.
		You play live both in Canada and the U.S., right?
unidentified		Yes, we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a pretty big difference between the demeanor of Canadians and the demeanor of Americans.
		Canadians are so ever well-behaved at a concert.
		I mean, they just are so well-behaved.
		And that in comparison to and respectful.
		I mean, they will clap, but the audiences in Canada are so respectful.
		And down here in the U.S., they tend to be a lot more boisterous, don't they?
unidentified		Well, in some places, but we're always able to quiet them down somehow.
		I don't know what causes this, but...
		Moreover, to that, too, I think that the response is the same.
		I feel the same kind of response in Canada as I do down in the States.
		When I'm up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
unidentified		It's the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just that Canadian audiences tend to be sort of more laid-back.
		I mean, Canadians in general.
		Do you think this is true or kind of more laid-back in their attitudes?
unidentified		Oh, I don't know.
		I don't think about it much.
		You know, we're all sort of in this together.
		That's the way I look at it, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We absolutely are.
unidentified		The upper North American continent here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do you worry while we're on that subject?
		We are all in this together, and I have a lot of concerns about the environment.
		Gordon, it's like we're really screwing things up.
unidentified		I had some involvement with David Suzuki for a while.
		I was kind of afraid, and then I started thinking about the meat and potatoes aspect of this thing.
		And if we don't work and do things and cause waste, how are we going to put the meat and potatoes on the table?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can't.
unidentified		You can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then again, on the other side of the coin, I'm sure because of what you do, you've done a lot of travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've probably been all over the world.
unidentified		Well, not quite, but I've been to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of parts of it, right?
		And, you know, in third world countries, they want what we have, and nobody in the world could blame them for that.
		They want what we've got.
		They want a couple of cars.
		They want a nice house.
		They want to be comfortable and all the rest of that.
		And yet if they get it, I'm not sure the planet can sustain it.
unidentified		Yeah, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a tough problem.
unidentified		It's been here for five billion years, or what is it, four and a half billion years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they say.
		Yes, indeed.
		You wrote for Barbara Streisand.
unidentified		She did a wonderful job on If You Could Read My Mind.
unidentified		Just a real fine job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of respect for her.
		She's an amazing person.
		She's a big perfectionist, isn't she?
unidentified		Well, there again, I did not get the opportunity to meet with her.
		I got to meet with some of the other artists.
		I got to meet with Mr. Sinatra at one point.
		But what happened?
		He did, if you could read my mind, he threw it on the floor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He threw it?
unidentified		He threw the music on the floor, and he said, I can't sing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, it was related to me by the engineer.
		The next day, I was quite amused.
		I thought it was great.
		He also said, I can't do this, and he threw it on the floor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't say what?
unidentified		He said, I can't sing this.
		So, you know, you have a 35-piece orchestra and everything sitting there.
		I was not there for that.
		I got there the next night, and he was doing Stevie Wonders.
		You are the sunshine of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I loved it.
unidentified		I thought he was doing a great job on it, and they finished that one, but then I don't think it appeared on the album.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think he couldn't have done or felt he couldn't do that song?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think?
unidentified		I beg your pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think he thought he couldn't do it or said he couldn't do it?
unidentified		Maybe it was the way the melody moves.
		Maybe it was the key.
		I don't know.
		Maybe he just didn't feel comfortable with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I always thought he could have done anything.
unidentified		Well, he did a lot of great work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Being with Reprise, I actually was associated with Sinatra because he was one of the owners of that record company he was an amazing man i've seen a lot of movies about frank and the rat pack and all the rest of them and that was quite a thing uh down here just across the hill from me in las vegas they had quite a thing going well i cannot uh i wish we had more time uh is there anything you know they're listening all across canada now and
		all across the u.s as well is there anything you want to tell all those folks out there well i just uh um you know be well just be well you're gonna just keep turning them out then huh i'm gonna try i'm gonna keep on playing uh as long as uh you know it's it's humanly possible because i i love to play i don't see why i should not yeah it's just one more question when you write a song do
		you ever know it's going to be a hit i mean before it ever gets to the record coming for you ever recorded i mean you just know i i felt that way uh...
unidentified		about uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the front sundown i felt they had the beat and and and the pulse in order to they had a pretty good chance you know that had your life behind it to everything else was as thank you and uh...
unidentified		the guys from the high desert thank you artist in the or shall i say mr bell it has been all right let's face with good night i can see you're lying back in your satin dress in a room where you do what you don't confess don't confess and take care of you and i will be on the back and
		i will be on the back
		One of the take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at 1-775-727-1222.
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		In the streets I move, the trees ground breeze.
		In the ash and book, and the birds in you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Last hour we interviewed Gordon Lightfoot.
		I mentioned this lady to him, Lorena McKennett, whose songs I'm in love with, as well as Gordon's.
		And his comment was, well, you know, she was there and then kind of gone.
		And I thought about that, and you know, he's right.
		Ramona and myself were honored to go to a Lorena McKennett concert in Vancouver, British Columbia.
		And that's where my comments about Canadian audiences came from.
		They were very respectful and clapped as you would at perhaps an opera or something.
		I mean, very staid, but her music was just incredibly good.
		And we saw her at the end of that tour.
		And so Gordon Lightfoot's comment makes some sense.
		She really has not resurfaced, and she's probably recharging batteries.
		I know she went off to do that for a while, but I did expect her back by now.
		So Gordon Lightfoot's comment was very interesting.
		All right, coming up now in a moment is Paul Stonehill, who is a Soviet-born researcher of anomalous phenomena, a Soviet-born researcher, an independent consultant, lecturer, and writer, has lived here in the U.S. since 1973 after immigrating from Soviet Ukraine.
		Paul has created Russian ufology, actually created the Russian Ufology Research Center, the subject of a special article in Omni magazine, the October 93 issue, if you want to look it up.
		In 91, after years of intense research into the forbidden subject, the Soviet government had banned public discussion of UFOs until 1989, while its intelligence agencies and secret military research bureaus had been collecting data, files, and physical clues since 1917.
		Wow.
		The center has served as a bridge for the Russian CIS scientists, researchers, ufologists, and military personnel who want to share information about the past and present research of anomalous phenomena.
		Most of the information has never reached the West before.
		The center also helps investigate hoaxes and planted disinformation.
		A collection of Paul Stonehill's articles and lectures on the subject was published as a book in Moscow in 1992.
		This is going to be a very, very interesting man to talk to.
		He graduated from CSUN, that's CSUN, in 1983, a BA in political science, later a freelance journalist.
		Paul had covered military conflicts in the 1980s, Middle East, and South Africa.
		He's also written extensively about Soviet espionage, covert actions, and Russian history.
		Well, this is going to be really interesting.
		Presently, his main areas of research are Russian and Chinese interests in anomalous phenomena and related areas, specifically military studies of UFOs, psychotronics, naval intelligence studies of UFOs, unidentified underwater objects, space defense programs, covert operations, and cryptozoology.
		That's one to throw in there at the end.
		In a moment, Paul Stonehill.
		All right.
		Now, here's Paul Stonehill.
		Paul, welcome to the program.
		Oh, Paul's not there.
unidentified		Oh, the good old phone company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's unbelievable to me that this can happen this frequently, but obviously the phone company has done us in, so I will take the measure of injecting one additional word for you, which you can all hear.
		And I'll get Paul, and we'll be right back.
		Well, all right.
		Now I think we have Paul Stonehill.
		Paul, welcome.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you on the program.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I read about you here, and you came out of the Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Immigrating from the Soviet Union then wasn't so easy, was it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No, it was quite difficult, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of hoops did you have to jump through to get out of there?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		At that time, the Soviet government let out a number of different nationalities because of pressure from the West.
		Jews and some other ethnic Germans.
		So we were able to go through the net, so to say, because my father was not by any means high official or anyone with secrets who could threaten the Soviet Union.
		So we were quite lucky to get out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did your father want to leave?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Because the Soviet system was corrupt and we had nothing facing us except poverty, grief, and other beauties of Soviet socialism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you left the Soviet Union, how old were you?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I was 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		13.
		They sent me the little press release with your information on it.
		On the left, it says Paul Stonehill.
		And on the right, it says something in Russian that I can't read.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, what it is, is how my name would sound in Russian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It couldn't be Paul Stonehill, could it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't Stonehill before.
		It was something else.
		But Pavel Barisevich means Paul, son of Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Son of Boris.
		Uh-huh.
		I've got, I don't know, a million things I want to ask you, but let me first ask you about something that's really worrisome to a lot of us right now.
		You know, the Chechen War looked like it was over.
		And then the bombs began to go off in Moscow, and now it looks like there may be a new Chechen War all over again.
		It's so dangerous, Paul.
		You know, the Soviet, well, the Russian army embarrassed itself terribly, of course, in the first war.
		And now it looks like it's not going to stop.
		Do you have any views on what's going on over there right now?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that the Russian army will stop because, like you said, they embarrass themselves and they have to show to the peoples of the South Russia and the Caucasus Mountains region that they can strike back, that they can keep control.
		It's very important.
		Otherwise, Russia will start falling apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people who think that process is already well underway.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		Unfortunately, I think Russia has lost all control over it.
		And Yelton is just a figurehead.
		And regional governors are exercising more and more control up to the point that they have their own, so to say, adopted armed units of the Russian army.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I got to go, a couple of years ago, I was in Moscow, and I got to actually eat lunch in the Kremlin, inside the Kremlin.
		And I really observed a bunch of wild things about Russia.
		It seems like the mafia there, the gangsters are assuming control of your country, of Russia, that is.
		And I also felt, even though supposedly everything today is so open and so different, that we were watched every single minute we were there.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think that under Yeltsin, Yeltsin is surrounded by more police agents and bodyguards and so-called praetorial guard than Brezhnev, let's say, would ever be.
		The security apparatus has grown tremendously.
		He has his own private army, so to say, and paratroopers in Moscow who will protect him from any uprising that there can be.
		Much more severe than during the Soviet times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yes.
		So he doesn't want what happened to Gorbachev to happen to him.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No, if Gorbachev's problem was that he did not have enough cajones, as they say in Spanish, to get rid of Yeltsin and the other two conspirators and keep the Soviet Union intact on the way to democracy, through slow reforms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were two things That amazed me about Russia.
		One was I was standing in Red Square, and we heard a big boom noise, and we were told after we left that that was an assassination attempt.
		A little bomb had gone off, and somebody thought they had blown up Yeltsin, but he was not where the bomb was.
		But we actually heard that in Red Square later, they tried to kill Yeltsin.
		So he's got a lot of enemies there, I guess, huh?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		He's got a lot of enemies.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		But one thing I see, the more anarchy there is in Russia, the more behind-the-scenes control is being exercised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		Everything is very strictly controlled.
		And the American people have this idea that Russia is now a young America where freedom reigns and freedom of speech and all kinds of freedoms reign.
		It's not necessarily true, is it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
		Russia is very much cushioned by American money for a while, but that's about it that they have accepted from the United States.
		There is a lot of dislike of the United States because of what happened in Yugoslavia, and there is a lot of envy today.
		And actually a lot of frustration because people, instead of freedom, they had received fake capitalism as they see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fake capitalism.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It's not the fault of the United States, but so much had been promised to them by so-called reformists in Russia.
		Once this communism falls, you know, they expect it to just walk into prosperity and wealth, as we have in the United States.
		But it doesn't happen overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
		And it's not happening as it should over there fast enough.
		What do you think will happen?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think there will be takeover of power by someone like General Lebit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, it's coming that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean the General Lebed who would like to have Alaska back?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		And he may not be the most radical person in today's Russia.
		There are so many radical movements who are being used by their secret services and opportunists like Lebed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he, so in other words, it could be somebody even worse than Lebed?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		By no means he is not the worst one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know what?
		I don't think I meant Lebed.
		He's not the one that wants Alaska.
		Thank you very much.
		Zeronovsky is one.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, that clown will not take it.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		He has no power among the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had that all wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if it's Levit, who is not nearly as bad as Zharonovsky, but no angel either, what would you expect?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I would expect that there will be a military dictatorship over Russia, supported by people who are tired of anarchy and gangsters over them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, bring back the iron system.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, bring back the control.
		And of course, to make it easy, there will be threats to the West.
		And it makes it easy because people don't have to work to improve themselves.
		All they can look forward to is getting things out from the West.
		Look, it's happening today.
		Even Ukraine, actually my native land, even Ukraine today gets things out from the West just by simply threatening to turn back the Chernobyl power station.
		And it's working out.
		Russia is doing the same with nuclear weapons.
		I'm sure behind the scenes they can tell our government, look, if we don't get this and that IMF loans, we may as well start selling nuclear weapons to such and such state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're being blackmailed.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It's my humble opinion, but I think that's what's happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I share your humble opinion, because without nuclear weapons, Russia right now would be just down in the basket with other third world nations, wouldn't it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		But given victory in Chechen, in the Chechen war, Russian military will want to show the world that it's still a force to reckon with.
		And so much money is being spent today on the military that they will want more and they will need more victories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they're spending so much on the military, how come they're not paying their military members?
		I mean, they're taking second jobs.
		They're virtually on welfare and in the black market so they can survive day to day.
		How do you maintain a military that way?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		You see, Russia is a very strange planet to look at.
		And because whatever money is being spent on the military ends up in the pockets of functionaries and bureaucrats and finds its way to West, to Switzerland, to their own private account.
		It's true that the soldiers see very little.
		Putrid fish and stale water, stale bread, while dollars and rubles end up somewhere else.
		This is Russia today, and our government knows it.
		And yet Russia keeps getting IMF loans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some millionaires from this strange capitalism in Russia right now.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you can see them here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if the Iron Hand comes back, what happens to the millionaires?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		They will be taken care of.
		Whatever wealth they have in Russia will be nationalized, and some scores of them will be executed, maybe public executions, because after all they stole from Mother Russia and from the people.
		And after the euphoria will subside, the reality will dawn That basically Russia is in shambles, falling apart, and the future is very, very bleak.
		Much worse than it was back in 1988-89.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're just really scaring the hell out of me.
		All right.
		Paul, hold on.
		We're going to a break here at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Stay there.
		Don't hang up.
unidentified		No matter what you do, don't hang up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, great.
		And unfortunately, I think he's exactly correct.
		That's the way it's headed.
		The question is, what it's going to be like on the other end for us, our relationship with the new Soviet Union?
		Is that what we have to think about?
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been on that path of what I am It's all clear to me now My heart is on fire
unidentified		Lonely days, lonely days Where would I be without my wall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, Don Hill is here.
		We're going to get to UFOs in a normal moment.
		This stuff is even scarier.
		And here I thought it was safe to come out of the fallout shelter.
		We'll be right back.
		You know what happens, he continues, to people who don't have guns?
		Remember Tiananmen Square?
		Chinese didn't have guns.
		Chinese government had tanks.
		And that's what happens to people who don't have guns.
		And you might say, well, what good guns against tanks?
		Well, I don't know.
		If you give up your guns, expect anything.
		That would be my point of view.
		Paul, welcome back.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are rumors, lots and lots of rumors, that some of the suitcase nuclear devices the Soviet Union had are already out of the country, have been sold, and may be in the hands of Iran or Iraq or God knows who.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, not just rumors.
		General Levitt himself said so on one of the American news magazines, I would say about two years ago.
		About two years ago, yes, he was here in the United States.
		I think that it's a danger that our government recognizes.
		Maybe this is one of the reasons that FBI is trying to help Russia hunt down those terrorists who had put bombs inside apartment buildings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And there may be more that we know very little about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know our FBI is over there helping.
		I find that a remarkable thing, considering the FBI is a domestic enforcement agency.
		You know, supposed to be just here in the U.S. Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Also, I'm sure CIA has agents throughout the former Soviet Union because there's a power struggle underway in Azerbaijan to, you know, who would control the oil routes in Kazakhstan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Plus, they have to check Russia's influence in the area.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		So we're back to the great game.
unidentified		Back to the great game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, if we get Lebed and we get the Iron Hand, what do you think would happen to Russia's foreign policy?
		Internally, yeah, they'd clamp down and sort of do it China, where the economy, China right now is managing to crank up their economy, but they've still got a really hardcore communist political system.
		There's no question about that.
		I was there too, I know.
		And so is that, do you think that's what Russia would do?
		They try to keep some form of capitalism and international trade alive while clamping down internally or what?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what I'm afraid about is whenever somebody like General Lebedev will take power, he will need brains behind him.
		And the brains will be Primakov, that old KGB gentleman, I can't call him gentleman, a sly fox, who basically is the moving force behind the new Russian foreign policy.
		And he is the one that is pushing the Axis, Russia, China, India, against the Western alliance, Western powers.
		Limakov is very clever, very intelligent, and very much anti-West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I was in Russia, I sensed that the Russians were really, really a very proud people, very technologically competent, and very paranoid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that still true?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true in paranoid because they had seen recently an example of Western alliance being used against them and their allies.
		As for in Yugoslavia, as for technological savvy, listen, some of the best computer programmers in the United States are new immigrants from Russia.
		They're being, not even immigrants, they're being brought here by Microsoft and other Silicon Valley enterprises.
		So I have very much respect for Russian science and technology.
		And I got to tell you, after about eight or nine years of stagnation, again, Russia's science is on The upswing, they're getting money.
		They're getting money from the state and from people like George Soros.
		So there's a lot of development going on.
		What shape the development will take, I'm afraid it will go more towards military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's true here, too.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true here, too.
		We have more black projects and black project money than you can ever imagine.
		And it's just incredible what goes on here in secret.
		I mean, the amount of money that is given out to certain projects in secret, and I guess that goes on in both countries.
		But to see us headed back, you know, to the brink of Armageddon again, that's pretty sad.
		I mean, I remember as a child when I was your age, around 13, 12, 13, even 11, in school, you know, we were all hiding under our desks wondering about an attack from the Soviet Union and the end of the world.
		And if I listen to you correctly, you're really saying it could go back there again.
unidentified		It could.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		There was much more control when the Soviet Union was a great power because it was centralized and everything was checked.
		Now, Yeltsin has a check over his army, for example.
		He keeps them under control, but not localized units.
		And if somebody goes crazy and reaches for the button, there's no way to stop him.
		There are no military commissars over him or her.
		And again, people did not starve in the Soviet army.
		There were a lot of other crimes committed against them, but soldiers did not starve.
		and had no reason to go wild like that young gentleman about a year ago aboard one of the nuclear submarines you recall that case when he Well, it happened aboard one of the nuclear submarines when a young soldier went berserk and he was armed and he basically threatened to blow up the ship.
		Thank God that he talked more than he did and a sniper was able to kill him.
		But the problem is that it's only one of many incidents.
		For example, I found out very strange that few people in the United States knew about an incident that happened some years ago over Siberia where during a test flight of one of their new aircrafts and shooting of missiles, one of the missiles missed and landed about a kilometer and a half away from a nuclear power station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my God.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		So there was rumor that the pilot was actually drunk or maybe did not have enough food or incidents like this take place and we don't find out about them for a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never heard that.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		That actually, I would say about three years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, we all know about Chernobyl, and I've seen a lot of kind of interesting stories on, I don't know, 16 Minutes and some of the other programs about the status of Chernobyl, and it's like it's covered up, but it's all decaying and coming apart.
		And they say that the containment they have it in may not last.
		Do you hear those things?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		And Ukraine keeps asking for more money, and they will get it from the West.
		How they will be spent, I don't know.
		But it is true that, yes, the sarcophagus, I believe they call it, is just splittering apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Splitting apart, yeah, the sarcophagus, splitting apart, that's right.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And it's not a very safe situation.
		God only knows the effects of Chernobyl on European people and beyond that.
		God only knows because we're not being told all the effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
		Do you think that that accident modified Russian policy, nuclear policy, changed anything at all?
		I mean, here comes Y2K, for example, and the Russians have said they're going to wait and see what happens and then fix it, you know, if they see there's a problem.
		That worries me.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you something.
		I spoke to a lady about four months ago.
		She just came over from Kamchatka, one of Russia's faraway lands, and they had a powerful military unit stationed at Kamchatka.
		So I was telling her, look, I'm sure Russia will do something about Y2K.
		And she said, what are you talking about?
		I was at one, I quite often used to go to one of the military units.
		I brought over potatoes, I exchanged for other things there.
		And she says that whatever computers they have are stained with vodka stains and keyboards.
		And she said, Paul, don't be naive.
		Nobody cares.
		Nobody knows about it.
		People think how to survive, what to sell.
		I'm sorry, but that's how it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here, yeah, we're going to get the UFOs of the paranormal, but this is scaring me more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So vodka stains on the computers and the keyboards.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, ABC News today carried an excellent story about how Russia is not prepared for Y2K and how we are going to help them.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		$50 million worth of equipment just for the basic control over military units and some of the communications in case of a false alarm so no one pushes a button.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, so I've heard.
		The rocket forces and the nuclear forces in Russia are still under very much centralized control, aren't they?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And let's pray they will be.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they Are still under centralized control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they always were.
		I mean, our submarine commanders, for example, had independent authority to do what they had to do under certain circumstances.
		Soviet submarine commanders never had that, and I don't think they do today.
		It was all very centralized, and you think it still is pretty much good.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Whatever submarines are out there, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's good, unless it's Levitt and then or maybe somebody worse than Levitt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, worse than Levitt.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been back?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		And if I do go back, it will have to be Ukraine, not Russia.
		Because I do so much research and I'm not hesitant to publish it here.
		I don't think it will be safe for me to go back to Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not safe.
		You know, not safe.
		I've told this story before, but you might be interested.
		With the group that I went to Russia with, to Moscow, we had one really nice fellow who came along with us, and he was blind, not sighted.
		And he would carry a video recorder with him only to record the sounds, obviously, for himself, because he couldn't see anything.
		So he would just carry the video recorder in his arms.
		And he was on a Moscow street, and he was passing a factory where people were going inside and showing identification to a guard as they went inside.
		And this man, this young man, and his mother were both arrested and questioned for hours and hours and hours.
		And they almost missed the airplane getting out of Moscow because they were questioned for so many hours.
		They almost didn't let him go.
		It was just because he walked by a factory where people were showing IDs with a camera.
		That's it.
		He was arrested.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		So the secret boxes still exist.
		That's what the Soviet people used to call secret military institutions where research, you know, top secret research was taking place.
		I'm sure.
		I'm sure they still exist.
		And especially in the area of the Ural Mountains, a lot of strange things are taking place.
		And the research goes on.
		Look, Russian airplanes are quite well.
		They're not worse than American airplanes today.
		Military aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, military aircraft, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I must tell you, I flew internally inside Russia in Aeroflot.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Brave men you are here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It scared the hell out of me.
		I mean, I have never in my life.
		We were the seats in the Aeroflot aircraft, for example.
		My wife was laughing about something, and she pounded the seat in front of her, and the person in front of her collapsed because the seat just went forward.
		You know, they go either way.
		They just flop back and forth.
		and uh...
		and when you went into the bathroom on the aircraft was all the news sticky you know if you choose were sticking to the floor the way the pilot flew the uh...
		And then I got off the aircraft, and I looked at the tires, and they had holes in them.
		I could see the tread.
		I took pictures of it, as a matter of fact, put it on my website.
		I have never taken a scarier flight in my life.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I imagine, you know, it's very easy to buy off the aircraft inspector.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Everybody takes bribes in Russia, so you were a brave man to take an informed brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I was an uninformed man.
		And when I finally got off the aircraft in Moscow and I looked around, then I was not brave.
		I was just plain scared because I was thinking about having to fly back.
		Anyway, so much for all of that.
		We have, you know, I'm here in the desert.
		I'm 65 miles west of Las Vegas, Nevada.
		And just over the mountain from me, we have Area 51.
		And I'm sure you know all about Area 51, or at least its reputation.
		I would assume that in the former Soviet Union, they have the equivalent of our Area 51, or perhaps many of them.
		I don't know.
		What do you know?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		They had several and still have several areas where interesting research takes place.
		I mentioned, for example, the Far East of the Soviet Union.
		In my book, The Soviet UFO Files, I go into description of several such areas.
		The most interesting thing is that, yes, they exist, yes, something is being done in those areas, and we still don't have the complete information.
		But I must tell you that a lot of the information about such areas leaked out between 1989 and 1992.
		After that, that secrecy.
		And those who had tried to study military research of UFOs in today's Russia had suffered.
		Some were killed, some were maimed, and some just stopped and dropped out of sight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think there was a period of time of openness and then it closed down again?
		I understand the openness.
		I don't understand why it closed down again.
		Do you?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I am, well, first of all, it closed down again because I think they realize the value of what they have.
		That's number one.
		Meaning Russians and their secret research of UFOs, meaning by military forces and by Secret Service.
		The openness, thank God, we had that period where we could get things out.
		We were not the only ones.
		The Chinese were quite interested, and CIA was interested in joint Russian-Chinese research.
		And of course, our own intelligence agencies were quite interested in obtaining information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much do you think we really got out?
		In other words, our government, I presume, Probably got some information that we don't know about that came out of Russia.
		Would that be reasonable to suspect?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think they've got our government has got its hands on Stalin's Roswell files.
		i am positive about it because we myself and doctor hane uh...
		nasta try to get uh...
		information from russia about uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		roswell well yes what happened that in peck in nineteen working nineteen forty three nineteen fifty We're up here at the top of the hour.
		That's amazing.
		We'll talk about that when we get back.
		Can you imagine, folks, we were trying to get our hands on the Soviet Roswell files to find out what happened in Roswell.
		It really, really is a strange world out there and getting stranger all the time.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Lead me this way.
		I can't survive.
		We can't say the last without you.
		La la la, la la, la la la la.
		Monday, Monday, so good to me.
		Monday morning, it was all I hoped it would be.
		Oh, Monday morning, Monday morning, couldn't guarantee that Monday evening you would still be here with me.
		Call our bell in the Kingdom of Nive from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Paul Stonehill is here.
		He's an immigrant from the former Soviet Union.
		And you've got to sit down for a minute and contemplate what we were talking about just before the break.
		And that is that we went to the former Soviet Union during that brief period of years when the information did get out to get information about Roswell.
		You know?
		Roswell, New Mexico.
		USA.
		I mean, you've got to give that a little bit of thought.
		We're going to ask about that when we get back.
		Once again, here is Paul Stonehill, and I was thinking about that during the break, that we would go to the former Soviet Union to get information on something that happened in Roswell, New Mexico, here in the United States of America.
		And you know, our current president, it said that when he got into office, and I think we know this to be true, President Clinton said he wanted to know about two things.
		The assassination of John Kennedy and whether we had any secret files or information and about UFOs.
		He wanted to know about those two things, and as best as I know, he's not satisfied on either count.
		So what could the Russians have known about Roswell?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, what the Russians knew, what the Soviet dictator Stalin knew, was contained in a pile of documents that he had shown to top Soviet scientists and academicians, among them Sergei Karadov, father of the Soviet space science, former prisoner of a concentration camp, and somebody who had actually later in his life witnessed a very strange UFO.
		There is more to this story.
		What our president may not know is that I think we also got out from Russia findings of the Beria expedition to the Dungaska site, the Dungaska 1908 very, very unusual explosion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Now, Karalov was given access to the documents and he was also given an interpreter or two and three days to go through the documents and give Stalin his opinion on what UFOs are and whether these objects threaten the Soviet Union's security.
		And he could not take a step out from the rooms he was given and the Kremlin.
		He went through the documents and his assessment was that yes, UFOs exist and no, they do not present any immediate danger to the Soviet Union.
		But I might repeat, Roswell documents, as far as we know, were among that pile that has disappeared.
		I think that because we, meaning the United States, were able to get our hands on such documents, the United States Air Force was able to issue in 1994 its very funny, I should say, assessment of Roswell.
		They knew that no one else has those documents.
		No one else will challenge them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		It was funny.
		It was funny and pathetic.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		There is more to this story.
		After Karaliov visited Stalin and went through these documents, all of a sudden he became an ardent supporter of a theory that the Tungaska phenomenon Was actually an explosion of an alien spaceship.
		So he also sent an expedition to the site.
		But we need to understand that Soviet secret police, the KGB under Beria, sent a more secret expedition back in 1949 to the site.
		And whatever they found never became public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And I think I'm also of the opinion that the United States, the intelligence service, must have gotten this information out of from Russia.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, one of those who came up with the idea that this was an alien spaceship, this gentleman, his name was Zolotov, was murdered in 1995.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Murdered.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know or think you know any details of what they believe occurred at Sunguska and why they believe it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		There are very different ideas.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		But what interests me is that a number of scientists and military people strongly believe that what happened, it was an actual explosion of an alien spaceship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		And if they have any evidence of that, physical evidence of that, then one might imagine they shared that information at some point with our government, and our government shared information with the Soviet government on this very subject.
		I wonder what we imagine they might have communicated to each other.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		I also need to tell you that our government, whatever communications have been going, and I'm sure there was a joint research, I have no doubts about it.
		At the same time, the CIA was very much interested in Soviet UFology, UFO reports and such information.
		That's coming through the classified files of the CIA that I went through.
		And I must tell you that they knew much more than we don't even, you know, we can even guess now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What classified files did you go through?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I went through declassified, not classified, but actually declassified files of the CIA.
		Most of them, curiously, were declassified on November 16, 1978.
		And that tells me something that they, meaning the CIA, must have received, must have gotten their hands on very interesting information before that to allow them to declassify fascinating information.
		For example, one of the files mentions that in 1972 there was a commission created by the Soviets to study UFOs.
		I know about many, no, not many, sorry, several such research committees, but none that would have been created back in 1972.
		1978, as a matter of fact, 1979, yes, but not 1972.
		Also, you need to know that back in 1952, the CIA actually asked all field stations to gather information about any hint, any mention of UFOs in Soviet media.
		There was much more.
		The information, you know, for example, let's go in 1989, 1990, the CIA sent a special team to the Soviet Ukraine, to the Academy of Sciences, to find out information from scientists about various research and to assess their interest in UFOs.
		And of course, Ukrainian scientists told them that, yes, we believe something is happening, and quite a number of us want to find out what is the nature of UFOs.
		You know, they were not, unlike many scientists here, there was a serious research, no, serious interest towards UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you can help me with this.
		At the completion of our investigation in the United States, the now famous or infamous Project Blue Book, the conclusion at the end was that they may exist, and some of the reports remained unexplained.
		However, there was no threat to U.S. national security.
		And that sounds just like what you said.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		Absolutely.
		What interests me primarily is not so much even as scientific research.
		It does, but military scientific research.
		Because military researchers and naval researchers were basically given the task to touch UFOs, to feel them, to find out what they are, what threat.
		There wasn't even a question whether they exist or not.
		Of course they exist.
		Of course we have something in our hands.
		Of course we have collected pieces of something that crashed.
		Now we need to find out whether more of them will come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, then, then, then the American statement and the Russian statement are American and Russian BS baloney.
		Because there's no way things can be flying in our sky and over our missile silos.
		In the U.S., we have many stories about that confirmed.
		And I saw a 2020 report, by the way, on a Russian missile silo in which a disk hovered over and actually began to send the missile into a launch sequence.
		And the story goes, and they told it on 2020, that afterwards they disassembled the entire control panel, ripped everything apart, all the wiring.
		Nothing was wrong, but there was a disc hovering over this site.
		Have you heard that story?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And more.
		I have a chapter in my book called UFOs over Soviet Nuclear Installations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And I go into details, names and dates, but I need just to let you know that the Soviet high command, for example, Had issued an order several times, not only once, to stop shooting at UFOs, that no military unit was to shoot at UFOs that buzzed above missile silos.
		And whatever the aim of the UFOs might have been, they had proven themselves to be peaceful.
		And that, you know, this is at one.
		Russians were quite afraid of military acting berserk and shooting at UFOs.
		It happened on some occasions with very sad results for Soviet aircraft.
		But there was something else that's interesting that very few people know.
		Back in 1973, over at the Institute for Nuclear Research in Dubna, this is one of the most secret Soviet locations, there was a UFO.
		It came from nowhere, right above one of the most secret installations in Dubna, and stood, you know, a hovered above for a number of hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hours?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Hours.
		So there was a general in charge, a military general, and he panicked and he called Moscow and he says, you know, there's this metallic apparatus of unknown origin and it's immovable in the air.
		And what the hell do we do?
		He demanded instructions.
		And Moscow, of course, Moscow, you know, replied that we control the situation, don't worry, those who are authorized control it.
		They controlled nothing.
		The UFO took whatever, I guess, observations it had to and took whatever information it had to and just went away.
		And scientists came out and they jeered and they looked at it.
		And just one example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, then, my God, then perhaps you can help me out with the definition of national security there or here.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		National security is to, I guess, to be sane as much as possible and to hold on to reality as much as possible and hide as much as possible because we cannot explain what the hell is buzzing over us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, that's the thing we all think about here in America.
		We think that our government knows about these things.
		They, of course, know.
		You said it yourself.
		They know.
		So then we wonder, well then, why don't they tell us?
		And one of the reasons that we think they don't tell us is because they have no control at all over these things.
		And since they have no control, governments love secrets and they would not admit to us that something is flying above us about which we have no control.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It's the situation in Russia.
		While the Soviet Union was a great power, actually you could get more information out of the Soviet Union than you can from the United States.
		Although it was a superpower, it had a lot of holes and information leaked out.
		I know because I collected a lot of this information.
		So you could find out that there was a very intensive naval research of UFOs and underground objects.
		I come from a naval family, Soviet naval family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean underground or underwater?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Underwater.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard many stories of very large things moving very fast underwater, detected by our SOSIS and our submarines and so forth and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've heard that too?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I published it.
		Again, it's in my book and also other articles I published.
		I can tell you names, I can tell you dates.
		What I find interesting is towards the end of 1970s, the intelligence service of the counterintelligence service of the Soviet naval forces had collected so many reports that they had to actually spend a lot of money just to study the reports and to send operatives into field.
		And when I mean field, I mean underwater, to actually study.
		Look, Azhaja, one of the most famous Soviet UFologists, was burned because he talked too much about UFOs.
		So he was threatened and thrown out from his very nice positions as a researcher.
		So who helped him?
		He was a submariner before during the war.
		So the naval intelligence gave him a very cozy position and told him, you write monographs for us.
		You have to help us study UFOs.
		And because of that, some of his naval bodies, like, you know, General Counter-Admiral Ivanov, let him see some of the reports they have and some of the research.
		What I find interesting is the presence throughout Soviet history of gigantic cylinders that emit lesser-sized UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there, Paul.
		We'll be right back.
		Oh my.
		Isn't this interesting?
		Paul Stonehill is here, and we're talking about the other side and what they know.
		And it's fascinating and a little scary.
unidentified		Go around by the wind.
		Throw down in a spin.
		I gave you love.
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		I gave you all.
		I have to give.
		What did you have?
		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Good morning, Paul.
		don't know is there Oh man, that thing goes whales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love this song.
unidentified		One morning comes and you're still with her.
		And the bus and the tourists are gone.
		And you've thrown away your choice and lost your ticket.
		So you have to stay on.
		But the drum beats strains, but the night remains.
		And the rhythm of the new fontaine.
		You know, sometimes you're bound to repug.
		But then I'm just gonna stay In the year of the cut Let's see you at the cat.
		You know that's where you're gonna stay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the effect of Wall Stone Hill and large things moving at fast rates under the water.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Paul Stonehill, Paul, I've talked to a number of members of our Navy, the American Navy, and they have told me stories of things rising up out of the water of immense size and of things moving through the water at immense speeds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know of any specific incidences that the Soviets were aware of?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Many.
		Throughout, let's say in the early 1960s, Lieutenant Commander Alex Akalov, when he doing his submarines navigation, he has observed through a periscope an ascent, you know, rising up of some strange object through the water.
		He was not able to operate it, but he does know that the speed was incredible.
		Soviet sonar operators, military hydroacoustics technicians, were hearing at great depths very strange targets.
		And the Soviet submarines were being chased by other submarines, except they were gigantic and the speeds were faster than any other similar vessel in the world at that time.
		In 1982, there was a very interesting sighting up in the North Russian seas of an object that was about 125 meters in diameter.
		Many more.
		I can tell you about 1950s around Sevastopol Naval Base.
		There is a picture in existence of this incident.
		Right behind a Soviet military ship, the battle cruiser, the object sighted was some great ball that just rose from the sea and slowly went up.
		1965, Soviet steamship Praduga in the Red Sea was able to observe also a fiery sphere that dashed out from under the water, just hovered over the surface of the sea.
		I mean, others, so many, 1984, there was a very interesting observation in the Mediterranean by a Soviet ship.
		You go on and on and on.
		But what's interesting is the so-called swimmers.
		And I mentioned them in my book in great detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Swimmers more.
		Swimmers.
		What are swimmers?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Gigantic beings.
		Gigantic beings that are about, I would say, nine feet tall and swimming at will at the bottoms of Soviet lakes, doing something that they need to do.
		Humanoid beings that have no aqua lungs, no breathing apparatuses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never heard of this.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		Few people did, I'm sorry.
		But in 1982, the Soviet high command was quite alarmed when there was an incident when they tried to catch such a swimmer and being clad in silvery suit, call it whatever you want, swimming underwater.
		And when the helpless Soviet divers were sent to throw a net against it, they were just thrown out at great speed, velocity, out from the lake, bottom of the lake, and they died as a result, you know, because they couldn't go through the deconstruction process.
		Names, dates, I all mentioned them in the book, but also, I mean, so much has happened.
		And this is, I love this research, because I know that the Navy was quite serious about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the name of your book, please?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		The Soviet UFO Files.
		Paranormal Encounters Behind the Iron Curtain.
		And it was published by Quadrillion Publishing back in 1998.
		It's available throughout the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In bookstores now?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		In bookstores.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Of course, Amazon.com may be cheaper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they give a big discount.
		We've got a link right up there for you now to your book.
		And one more time, the name of the book, please.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		The Soviet UFO Files, Paranormal Encounters Behind the Iron Curtain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By Paul Stonehill.
		All right.
		Somebody writes, going back for a moment to Tunguska, somebody asks about Tunguska, ask Apoll if he's aware of a report that gallium arsenide fragments were found in some of the trees at Tunguska.
		Of course, now is used for light-emitting diodes, but they found some gallium arsenide in the trees at Tunguska.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Had you heard that?
		I've heard about that.
		I also have heard that they found so much, so many strange things back in the early 1920s that Stalin had to send an expedition, actually Beria, like I said, secret expedition to bring back results.
		They knew it was a nuclear explosion.
		They actually thought it was a thermonuclear explosion, and they wanted to know the difference.
		And they sent this specialized team.
		This is fascinating stuff.
		I just got it from Russia.
		And I wish we knew more.
		But again, we don't know what happened to the files.
		You need to understand, we talked about something in the beginning, but today in Russia, people are scared to even talk about this such information.
		Going back to naval research, I asked Russian researchers through their website, I asked them if anybody knows what had happened to the files of the Soviet Navy, UFO research.
		And if yes, all I asked them was to find out what had happened and if possible to publish in Russia, of course, any information so we all know.
		And they told me they were quite upset and they said, next time, please don't ask such requests, don't put such requests on our website because we value our lives and we value interests of our country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's true here, too.
		One of our congressmen who has now passed away, Congressman Schiff, New Mexico, he tried, Paul, to get a bunch of documents about Roswell.
		And, you know, he was told that they were destroyed.
		Just the documents from that period, Paul.
		He had enough oomph, you know, to really get an answer.
		But my God, what an answer.
		The documents from that period, just that period, were destroyed.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		The difference is why this reply bothered me is because in 1989, 1991, I got so much information out.
		You know, the Russian Soviet researchers would send it to me and they said, oh, no, go ahead and, you know, please publish it.
		We're all for exchange.
		Everybody was so optimistic about future and exchange of information about UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For a while.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		For a while.
		They didn't know too much about tabloid, you know, ufology and about this secret.
		I hate them, this secret, you know, behind-the-scenes move, moves to hide information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And that's what's happening.
		But to go back to Tungaska, what's interesting is that few people know about this in the United States, is that one of the Soviet astronavigators, Mr. Sternfeld, calculated that back in 1908,
		if a ship was to leave Venus in order to get to our planet using the least energy output, it would have to leave exactly at the date when the explosion took place.
		It's very interesting.
		It's just one of the more fascinating information.
		And we do know that in 1949, under this barrier expedition, you had KGB people who, among them geologists too, who were actually flown in to the site of the Farrington Mountain and to collect what was there.
		And my God, they did collect a lot of information.
		But what's fascinating is that they knew back in 1949 that it was a nuclear explosion over Siberia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A nuclear explosion.
		What is your best guess about what it was?
		A nuclear device exploded to...
		People have talked about that kind of thing, used literally as a drive, or it could have been a crash.
		What do you think?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		My opinion is very close to this one of Professor Zolotov, who was murdered in 1995.
		And this is it.
		The Tengaska explosion was actually an object of artificial origin.
		And it was actually, it might have been a UFO bomb with a power of 40 megatons, which was exploded by an alien race to attract mankind's attention.
		Some kind of a signal from another world.
		But the aliens chose to explode it in a faraway wilderness so as to minimize the harm.
		So somebody or something was trying to call attention of at least some of the humans, maybe those up in the government, to something that they wanted to inform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's what it was, do you think we got the message?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that those on top did get the message.
		I just don't know whether, you know, how they're going to play this message out and what is it they're doing.
		But so much has happened after that, behind the scenes and others, and others, that, you know, I'd like to find out more.
		All we know, it's like a mirror that has been shattered in thousands of pieces.
		And you and me, we can collect a few of the pieces.
		And something was reflected in that bloody mirror, and we don't know what it is, because the pieces are locked away in KGB files or naval files or the CIA files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at one point, as you said, it was easier to get to the KGB files than it was to the CIA files.
		We still don't really have those.
		But we did get some KGB information.
		Is it enough to convince a reasonable person?
		We use that expression a lot in this country, a reasonable person as a standard that there is no question about the fact that we are being visited by some intelligence.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It was enough to convince a reasonable KGB functionary to collect at least 124 pages of such documents, which I have, for example, and I know a few other researchers do.
		And enough, you know, going through such files to convince a reasonable UFO researcher that the KGB knew a lot about such reports, quite upset maybe by some of them, because KGB, it was not the KGB's role to collect information about UFOs, but they had received it anyway from their informers and case officers, and they had to do something about this.
		You know, you're looking at bureaucracy.
		You know, you get a report, you've got to do something about it.
		So they file reports about gigantic cylindrical objects, as it mentioned before, strange clouds, you know, throughout the land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Strange clouds.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Oh, clouds.
		I mean, don't even start about it, because clouds are very interesting.
		Some Something is happening over Russia in several areas, especially the north.
		Clouds appear, perfectly shaped so-called clouds.
		Sometimes aircraft comes out from such clouds.
		Never before seen.
		Sometimes UFOs, you know, differently shaped UFOs.
		Sometimes such clouds envelop whole towns.
		That's just one of the things in those files.
		And again, I would not exchange KGB files for the naval intelligence files.
		I mean, I would rather get those naval files.
		But I know I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can't, is right.
		I mean, as you pointed out, we have better access to the Russian files for a while than we do to this very day to our own.
		And the American people are, of course, naturally very curious about this kind of thing because it could mean ultimately something really important.
		One question we ask here all the time is what we're seeing.
		In other words, are these beings from another actual place or could they be dimensional beings?
		Could there be some other dimension that is actually all around us and we simply don't know how to break that barrier?
		Or are these beings from somewhere else?
		Do you have any thoughts?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I'm very much interested in underwater phenomena.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think there is definitely something down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down there.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And let's get again to the facts.
		Department of the Navy, Naval Historical Center in Washington, D.C., has a bibliography of unidentified flying objects.
		You see, information like this exists, and we can all get to it through the Internet, for example.
		And if you look at the selection that's being kept as a bibliography, it's astounding.
		I could not get my hands on some of it about the Soviet Union.
		But they have it, and they have it on record.
		I don't know if we can get it from them, but it's there in Washington, D.C. For example, there is an interesting article from a very obscure publication that doesn't exist anymore, Soviet soldier in English.
		It's called Paratroopers and Euphonauts.
		Meaning like cosmonauts, euphonauts.
		Yes.
		So, you know, you can see that our Navy, yes, is very much interested in what the Soviet research knew and, I guess, are doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is in this country now, for example, I've got a story in front of me, Associated Press, just released today, September 30th.
		An anticipated collision over the Pacific this weekend is seen as the first test of a national missile defense system that critics argue could increase, not reduce, the nuclear threat it aims to stop.
		Launching Saturday night from California is a Minuteman missile that has the potential to carry a nuclear warhead anywhere in the 50 states.
		Some 4,300 miles away on the Pacific Ocean, a booster rocket will fire an interceptor if the two collide at a combined speed of 16,000 miles an hour.
		The force would reduce both missiles to harmless space dust at about 140 miles above the Earth.
		So we are working on this now.
		And there are some people, Paul, who think that it's not necessarily the Soviets or, excuse me, the Russians that we are so worried about.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think we're worried about beings or entities that take care of our spacecraft over Mars.
		As an example, look at another report.
		A few days ago, we lost yet another spacecraft.
		And I've done a lot of research about the Phobos incident back in 1989.
		And it's my deepest belief, shared by prominent Russian scientists, that there is something on Mars, as an example, that doesn't like what we're doing.
		We're sending our craft into forbidden territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of us feel the very same way.
		It's been, I don't know how many of them now, that blow up or, well, we get all kinds of excuses.
		The latest one I felt was the most uncredible, which is probably not a valid word, but not at all credible, that we simply made a mistake in math and sent it too close to Mars when it was out of radio contact.
		Pretty hard to buy, Paul.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		What did Hubble telescope see during the so-called mistake, time of the mistake?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there was a substantial amount of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, unfortunately, the spacecraft, though, was on the other side of Mars and out of radio contact.
		And so I presume probably, well, I don't know.
		Maybe or maybe not out of the ability of Hubble to see it.
		You've got a good point, but it's...
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to, as a comparison, I wanted to say the same excuse was given to us when the Hubble telescope, so to say, was dysfunctional.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, it had seen something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, would you be willing to stick around and answer some questions from the audience?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I imagine there are going to be plenty of those.
		Believe me, plenty of those.
		So stay right there, Paul, and we'll get back to you.
		boy From Russia without so much love, I guess, huh?
		Sounds just like us, doesn't it?
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. Knights in white satin, never reaching the end Letters I've written Never meaning to send Beauty I'd always miss with
		these eyes before just what the truth is i can't say anymore my
		sweet lord my lord my lord my lord i really want to
		see you really want to be with you really want to see you lord but it takes so long my lord call
		our bell in the Kingdom of My from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 To rechart on the Toll-Free International line,
		call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, sweet lord, indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		Paul Stonehill is here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's an immigrant from the former Soviet Union.
		Certiformer, anyway.
		And we're talking about ufology and a lot more.
		And if you have any questions at all for Paul, we're going to open the lines and let you have at it.
		I've done that for about two hours, and I could keep doing it, but I'm going to turn it over to you, and we'll see what you have to say coming up next.
		All right, we are about to go to the phones with Paul Stonehill, but here's something that somebody wrote for Paul to comment on.
		It just says, hmm, I wonder if in order for us humans to communicate with UFOs, we would all have to accept and believe in them.
		And if that is the case, the people in power would not want to ever openly admit UFOs exist, because if they did that, mankind would accept UFOs as real and communicate with them.
		It would begin, the communication would begin, and they, meaning the government, might lose their power.
		Kind of makes sense because aside from the government, those who stand to lose the most would be, for example, the church.
		And these are the very same people that seem to irrationally deny that they exist.
		Looks like we're stuck unless those who do believe manage to steal one or get one and plop it down on the steps of the Capitol at Washington, D.C. What do you think, Paul?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's quite possible.
		I think it's quite possible.
		And whatever the governments know, you know, whatever the information they do out, I think hundreds more is being kept away from us.
		And they just don't trust us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't trust us.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		But we have to trust them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about you.
		I don't trust them.
		As far as I can throw them.
		All right.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Art.
		My name's Paul.
		I'm from Pomona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Paul.
unidentified		First time caller, yes.
unidentified		And I enjoy your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		It's very interesting.
		You have a very interesting show.
		Anyway, my question is this.
		Now, first, I've got to premise it first.
		First off, I believe UFOs is a real phenomenon.
		Matter of fact, it's a scientific term.
		The government does, in fact, admit to UFOs, but they don't admit to them being extraterrestrial.
		That's at least in my understanding.
		Now, my question is this.
		Now, premising that UFOs are not extraterrestrial, why is it important to you personally, Paul, that they are extraterrestrial?
		Why would it be important?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
		As I mentioned, in case of Tungaska phenomena, I do think, in my opinion, that it was an extraterrestrial object.
		But generally, based on my research, maybe my interest in this whole research, I tend to believe that there is something at the bottom of the oceans that is trying to interact with us or to at least to study us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear what he said?
		The bottom of the oceans, sir.
		Now, would that be important to you?
		Color?
unidentified		Oh, to me?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you thought there was something at the bottom of the oceans.
unidentified		Well, personally, you mentioned the concern about Christians.
		Well, I'm a Christian.
		And so my observation is this regarding the UFO phenomena.
		I find that people who believe and groups that believe that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin also tend to also believe in the Ouija board and spirit guides and similar type phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably true.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And it seems to be a one-to-one correlation.
		And I've not found any exception.
		Any books that I've picked up to read about UFO phenomena, inevitably I found that there is a definite belief in psychics and such phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you answer just a good, honest question for me?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a good, honest answer.
unidentified		If I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to become convinced that UFOs are in fact extraterrestrial, and that in fact they may even account for our being here, how would that affect your faith?
unidentified		Well, to be honest with you, depending on how you were to interpret or state that they were a human origin, assuming, let's say, that they actually were the cause of our human origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what I'm asking.
unidentified		All right, well, that would dismiss the Genesis account as I believe it, personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would crush your faith as you presently believe it.
unidentified		Well, it would crush my current belief system, yes, but my belief in the true God would not change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		All right, I thank you.
		Well, you see, Paul, there is an example, and I am sure that even in Russia, where there is quite a bit of religion still, always has been.
		In fact, when I was there, I never saw so many places of worship in my whole life, many of them.
		But if somebody's beliefs were to be challenged, they would pretty much come apart.
		And I guess that's one reason why a lot of Americans think we are not told about these things.
		Would that be the case there, too, in Russia?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
		Let me explain, if I may, my interest.
		I was fascinating with the research that had been going on conducted by, again, the secret police and the military and the naval people and Air Force pilots, simply because these people are better equipped than anybody else to study the phenomena.
		Well, many of them actually, you know, came in close contact with UFOs, were destroyed, sometimes captured a few things.
		None of them lost any beliefs that they had held in anything.
		They continued on as being Soviet officers, maybe not devout Marxists.
		None of us, I guess, were in the later years of the Soviet Union.
		But no beliefs were shattered as a result.
		Deep, profound impact sometimes, but that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think a devout Marxist might not have so much trouble accepting their presence or even their presence as our Creator at all, as would a lot of American Christians.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		In 1985, there was a report from aboard one of the Soviet space stations that they had seen angelic-like beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got that report here.
		I remember that report.
		And U.S. astronauts also have seen things.
		I have interviewed them, Paul, and can you relate that?
unidentified		They saw, what exactly did they say they saw?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		They saw out coming from the orange cloud, something like a cloud where angelic-like beings that they had seen, that had peaceful smiles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are not clouds in space, right?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		So, you know, that's another phenomenon.
		And they looked at it in wonderment.
		Of course, you know, they did not kneel down to pray.
		They just wondered, what is it?
		Maybe what the hell is it?
		I don't know.
		But this was something unusual.
		By no means the only observation that was ever received by Soviet cosmonauts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure the ground crew probably said they've been up there too long or something, you know, dismissed the report.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Smuggled vodka aboard.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		We used to be quite cynical, and even more so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think they allow vodka?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They allowed, do you think they ever got vodka up on Mir?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		There had been rumors how a female cosmonaut could smuggle it in what place, and we'll not get into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely.
		Let's not get into that.
		Eastern Rockies, you're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
		I'm all right, sir.
		A very interesting program.
unidentified		Oh, very good program.
		This is Mike, and I'm calling from Birmingham, Alabama.
		I'm WERC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I do have a couple questions for Paul.
		My first question is, well, it is my belief that we are being visited by extraterrestrials.
		We have been for probably many thousands of years.
		And my question, two questions would be, do you think that we're being visited within our solar system, or do you think they're using some type of wormhole in space to come from great distances?
		And two, since there are many different reported shapes and sizes of UFOs, do you think that we're being visited by more than one species or races of extraterrestrials?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Based on the information I have collected, I think there definitely is, to answer your second question, more than one species.
		And the first question, I would say, in my opinion, we may be visited by beings that have a way station on Mars.
		And I think our government knows about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the same beings that keep destroying the craft we send there?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I would say so.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		A sentinel of some sort that does not want us buzzing around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Buzzing around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's that, caller?
unidentified		Okay, very good.
unidentified		I do appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call and take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Good morning.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		You're on the air.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		My name is Michael.
		I'm from Santa Monica, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Santa Monica.
		Yes, sir.
		And I think I detect a Russian accent.
unidentified		Dover, Paul.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Dover.
unidentified		Well, Paul, yes.
		I'm Russian descent or Russian dissident.
		Paul, I would like to ask you a question about the appearance of UFO during the Chernobyl incident.
		If you know anything about it, can I elaborate on it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		A whole chapter in my book.
unidentified		Absolutely.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Based on Mr. Krakatville information and some other ones.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		The rumor has, not the rumor, but the report has it that actually UFO helped subside the explosion.
unidentified		That's exactly what I heard, yeah.
unidentified		Not only subside, but it's reduced the radiation by, I think, like a thousand times.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, let's like this.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		The first reading that was taken just as the UFO appeared in the sky was 3,000, I believe it's milliroN-Gens an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		MilliRandens, yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		After the rays came out from UFO directed at the site of the explosion, the readings showed 800 milli Rengans an hour.
unidentified		Significant reduction, yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's quite a big reduction.
unidentified		Yes, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're very welcome.
		And have a good morning, and I hope nothing he said was bad.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Dave from Waterbury, Connecticut.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		Listen, I have a question for both of you.
unidentified		You know, I've been listening to you for about two years, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And, you know, this thing about the NASA and the security, I'm beginning to wonder, if you were under direct orders of NASA to maintain security, and let's suppose that the top management in the government has got messages from these aliens to say, if you divulge this, we will do very damaging things.
		But you wanted to get the message out, wouldn't you try to put it out in kind of a coded way by giving really stupid explanations?
		And my question to Paul is, having come from the Soviet Union, they may be a little more familiar with tacit resistance, resistance to direct governmental authority.
		And Paul, if you were going to resist something where you knew you spoke out directly, you could be bodily harmed, would it seem reasonable to put out explanations through management that might slide through or some other kind of tacit resistance things?
		And do you know of any other incidents either in the U.S. or Russia where really silly explanations come out from very intelligent people that would kind of like make claims that would make you very skeptical at what you just heard?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		Actually, it's a very good idea.
		I think it's quite possible.
		There may be people who are fed up and need to find a way to express themselves.
		And maybe that's the way.
		Maybe there are other ways.
		I once met here a former U.S. Top Gun flyer.
		And I hope he's still alive.
		He had flown a lot of aircraft during the 1950s.
		He doesn't believe in God, in devil, and UFOs.
		But he did tell me that back in 1955, I think, he was called to chase something that was speeding through the sky at incredible speed.
		And he said, not us, not the Russians.
		We did not have such technology.
		And he chased it over two states.
		Couldn't catch up with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Gordon Cooper, U.S. astronaut Gordon Cooper, not more than about two weeks ago, Paul.
		And he talked to me about chasing disks over Germany.
		No question about it.
		I mean, he was in a high-performance jet, and he was chasing things that he had absolutely no explanation for.
		And I know your cosmonauts also, your cosmonauts, I'm sorry, you're here now, that Russian cosmonauts also have seen a lot of things, not just the angelic presence, but they've seen other things as well, haven't they?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I can give you examples.
		But we should go back to 1957, even during the second start of satellite, you know, that the Soviets sent to the sky.
		There had been UFOs over that area.
		And we knew that.
		I mean, we found out about it years.
		But more about the cosmonauts.
		They had seen gigantic waves rising in the oceans.
		They had seen objects from aboard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, the oceans.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, again, the ocean.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		But I don't want to concentrate on the ocean by no means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's quite all right.
		That's an area of great fascination to me.
		And I imagine that from space, you surely would see something big coming up out of the ocean, wouldn't you?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And Salute 6 space station was cursed or blessed with so many sightings by different cosmonauts.
		For example, Yuri Ramanienko and Georgia Grechko back in 1977 had seen an object that was chasing them.
		It was definitely a small metallic body.
		And they even had like a drawing of it.
		That's one.
		A lot was happening in 1978.
		By the way, the same year that the CIA declassified a whole number of files on Soviet geophology.
		I still am trying to find out why.
		So something was, definitely Soviet cosmonauts had seen a lot.
		A lot.
		For example, on August 28, 1978, there were four cosmonauts.
		Two of them were East Germans.
		And they had seen an object that, a gigantic object that was kind of flying around the station.
		1981, wait till you read my book.
		There's a whole section about the 1981 case and what had been seen, a close contact, so to say, between Soviet cosmonauts and beings from another spaceship.
		This is not hearsay.
		This information was leaked to the West some years ago, many years ago, and I was chasing after a film that was taken aboard the Salut 6 station of the whole incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't get it.
		Others did too.
		I know some Hollywood producers are always out for such things.
		My contacts in Russia were afraid even to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have also some unusual footage from our shuttle flights, as you must know.
		STS-48, STS-80, and now some even newer stuff that is just absolutely amazing.
		Have you seen any of the shuttle footage?
		Yes, yes.
		You have?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think, yeah, whatever was available, I believe, I had seen once, once.
		And I have no doubts.
		I have a photograph that was given to me by Professor Burdakov, who himself is one of the top Soviet uh space scientists who has no doubt doubts about existence of UFU of Oser.
		He gave me a picture of the Soviet Buran shuttle and when it was being loaded, I guess, aboard one of the aircraft, you know, they took pictures of the whole scene and when they developed it, they found out black balls flying, black spheres flying around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a black sphere is flying around, did you say?
		Yeah.
		Oh, my.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, you know, and you take somebody like Professor Burdakov, and Western debunkers hate him, I mean, with passion, like they hate me.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		But he exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they hate you, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They hate you, too.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Paul, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		I didn't realize that we didn't have a link up to Paul Stonehill's book, but that's being taken care of right now.
		Of course, it's at Amazon.com, but here in a few moments, I think we'll have a link up.
		I just spoke with Keith.
		So, you're listening to Paul Stonehill.
		You have a rare opportunity to ask about the other side.
		And while we know a lot about what's going on and has been going on here, we know very little about there.
		All right, it's done.
		That's how fast Keith is.
		Actually, we've got two links up for Paul Stonehill right now.
		One is The Soviet UFO Files, and that'll take you right to the book and the paranormal.
		And Encounters Behind the Iron Curtain.
		We've got both of them up now.
		So if you want to buy the book, and I bet you do by now, you can go to my website, www.artbell.com, scroll down to the name Paul Stonehill, and click on, I would suggest, I guess, the first one, the Soviet UFO files.
		That'd be a very valuable book for anybody to have.
		Paul, welcome back.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Stay good and close to the phone for me.
		That's very important.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		How do you do?
		Good evening.
		And vra sweete, Paul.
		That's a bad Russian, but anyhow, I hope you can understand it.
		This is my question.
		I am also from a Navy family, Naval Academy graduates all around.
		And I'm wondering if the Liberty incident might have a connection with what you're talking about.
		And this is why I'm telling you this.
		I had a conversation with an officer who was in the Mossad.
		And he also, by the way, originally was from Russia, or his family are from Russia.
		Very well connected there for the Soviet Union.
		In any case, he said that the reason the Liberty was attacked in 1967, with the Six-Day War, was that they had an underground facility, sort of like an Area 51, underneath the Sinai.
		And they were doing the experiments with the anti-Gravitic craft.
		And I wondered if you know of anything of, whether this is just disinformation, because as the sister of one killed on that ship, me, the survivors, are all trying to find out why this happened and why it's so blacked out 32 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would not have been the first explanation I would have jumped to with regard to the Liberty, but Paul, do you have any thoughts?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		My suggestion is contact the Israeli UFO Society.
		You can do it through the Internet.
		And I think Mr. Berry, I can't recall his last name, but he's quite knowledgeable.
		Chumash, I believe, Barry Chumash.
		And I respect his research.
		And he's quite outspoken because so many things have happened over Israel that he might actually help you much better than I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Paul Stone.
		Hill, good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		I'm Paul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Otoka, Oklahoma.
		Okay.
		I have a comment to make, and then I'd like to ask him three different questions, if I may.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll see.
unidentified		First, I believe that there are certain parts of our governments, and it transcends all nations, that are in league with certain aliens that have been on our planet for many centuries.
		And they are in the process of trying to come out of their own genetic dead end that they are in.
		And in the process, they're doing the genetic experiments and crossbreeding experiments and abductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That being said, what questions do you have?
unidentified		Is he aware of any research in Russia about the reins of human flesh and blood and body parts from clear blue skies?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good quick answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, and I don't think I've ever heard of human body parts falling from the sky save a plane crash.
unidentified		If you'll go into some of the Reader's Digest Mysteries of the Unexplained and some other books similar to that, you'll come across many accounts of them.
unidentified		They're well documented by doctors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't doubt you.
unidentified		That, I believe, is part of the aliens, when they get through with the genetic experiments, they actually use the people for food.
unidentified		They have been feasting on our species for centuries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sir.
unidentified		The reason that we have all the secrecy in the governments, I believe, is the governments know that the Federation, i.e.
unidentified		all the other life that is time traveling back now to remedy the situation, are on the horizon and they're coming soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember how to serve man, right?
		Yeah, obviously you do.
		We'll leave it there.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Paul Stonehill.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Paul.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I can barely hear you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at us.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Hey, Art, can I use my nickname?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		It's Bud Z. Green from Potland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		That's in honor of Willie Nelson and the late, great Dr. Carl Sagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bud Z. Green from Pottsville, Oregon, huh?
unidentified		Potland, Oregon.
		Potland, Oregon.
		And Willie, if you're listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Willie, another day for Willie, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got Paul Stonehill now.
unidentified		Sorry.
unidentified		Willie Nelson's music seemed to transcend through many ages from young to old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, please don't give a bad reputation to your nickname.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Try and ask a relevant question.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		First of all, are there any truth to the rumors of the moon base on the dark side of the moon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
		Ah, all right.
		Paul, you alluded to something on Mars.
		What about the moon?
		What do you think about it?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I have, I think, about two chapters that deal with the moon.
		The Soviets had been quite interested in lunar research.
		Soviet astronomers had seen unusual things and were not hesitant to report such, even in the newspaper on the surface of the moon.
		And I think Chinese researchers know quite a lot about Soviet and American research.
		And what is it that the Americans know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		A very interesting area for us to discuss a little bit about, Paul.
		30 years ago, 30 years ago, we went to the moon, and we have not yet been back with man since.
		and a lot of us wonder about that and uh...
		there are a lot of you you And it may well be that something or somebody doesn't want us in space, period.
		And maybe would allow us low Earth orbit, which is where we are, but not much beyond.
		And a lot of us suspect that's why the manned space program has not gone beyond.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		Even the Soviet attempts to create a so-called super-fighting biological machine and send it to the moon have failed.
		Again, I have quite a lot about it.
		Even about the KGB's attempts to use the lunar horde to have somebody come along on the lunar horde.
		The point is, they had been very much interested in lunar research, but I found, in my opinion, they had not done it together with the Americans, unlike their Martian expeditions.
		And the Phobos expedition to Mars was definitely a not Soviet expedition in itself.
		It was a joint operation, and JPL knew minute by minute what had been happening.
		Much of the equipment of the failed Phobos probes was created in the West, France, Finland, a few other states.
		It was a very, very curious expedition mounted by many states.
		And it was one of the tasks of the expedition was to test a new laser on the surface of the moonlet.
		And I guess whoever is up next to Mars or on Mars did not like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the following is logical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there is anybody else out there, and I believe there is, and they had been observing us, meaning what we're doing, what we have, all the atomic and hydrogen weapons that our countries possess and probably are getting closer every day to using, that if I were making a judgment about whether I wanted us flitting about in space, I don't think I'd want us out there yet, would you?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		You know, in their eyes, we may be a primitive race, you know, armed too much for our own good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With too many constant disagreements.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over things like gods.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		You're right.
		And as a direct result of it, the so-called joint human expedition to Mars back in 1989 was crushed by whatever being is up there, whatever sentinel may be waiting out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller align.
		You're on the air with Paul Stonehill.
		Hello.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hi, Paul.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		This is David calling from Denver, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, David.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And I wanted to ask Paul, have you been in touch with British intelligence and had a chance to go through the KGB files that were smuggled out, the vast amount of KVG files that were smuggled out?
		I think the man's name was Mitrokhin.
		Why would they be in touch with me?
		Immigrant.
		Well, yeah, I understand.
		I was wondering if you had any idea if those files contain any information about ufology or From what I had seen of what Mr. Mitrohin did, they did not.
		But they contained enough information to get out Soviet agents and traitors.
		And I hope, by the way, I really hope that we get all of the information from the files.
		Because a few people in the United States may feel heat under their feet, and they should.
		Because they were traitors to their own government.
		And I know that some people in California, from what I had read, should be named.
		No matter how high a position they hold in a certain political party.
		I mean, I've for years I've lived in the United States, and I had to fight when I went to college, when I went to, you know, to receive my education.
		I had to fight to so-called Soviet sympathizers.
		Actually, not so-called.
		And when I would tell them that the Soviet Union is bloody prison of nations in a communist concentration camp, they would tell me, no, you are not being honest about it.
		And some of these bastards, I know, then they grow up and become big shots in industries.
		And I remember them quite well at Cal State Northwich.
		I attended and a few other places.
		And they would laugh at me and they were quite uncomfortable with me and people like me like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure they were because you were telling them a truth that they did not want to hear.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that Marxism sucks.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No, they don't like to hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to hear that, I know.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		And then we may find out that they did something, you know, they did actual things to help along Marxist state of the USSR.
		That's why this is the value of the Mitrochin files, not aliens.
		I don't think that the KGB was primarily interested in UFOs.
		As I said, they had to write down information, register information sent to them.
		You couldn't find, you couldn't hide facts like gigantic spaceships like objects flying over the Tundra or the Arctic.
		You can't hide it.
		So they had to take reports like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We also have reports.
		NATO has been monitoring large, very large, very fast 25,000 mile per hour somethings going across the North Atlantic.
		There have been a number of reports about that between Britain and North America and or Canada.
		Just tremendous speeds, and commercial pilots have seen them and reported them.
		So I wonder if the Russian authorities have similar reports on that side of the world.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Especially over the northern areas.
		You know, less populated areas, but areas that contain a lot of military bases and secret installations, definitely.
		I think one of such objects crushed back in 1981 over the Kola Peninsula, a still very secretive place, and the Soviets had recovered it.
		In 1981 was a very curious year in itself, and Soviet ufology and Western ufology.
		And Americans had always been interested in the northern parts of the Soviet Union and what has been going on there, the CIA and I'm sure our defense intelligence.
		Oh yes, many reports in the Soviet Union.
		Even the KGB files mention them.
		And then you have files of the Navy, Naval Research.
		I'll give you a date, 20th of September, 77, in the White Sea of Russia, a submarine, a very highly effective submarine, staffed by engineers, military engineers.
		No small fries.
		They had observed a sky that, I mean, something in the sky, like a small star that turned into a gigantic cylinder as it approached.
		And again, this was a cylinder that would emit small P-shaped UFOs that would buzz around and go back inside the mothership, I would say.
		There was a report about it done.
		Another, October 7, 1977.
		This one is even more sinister.
		This was a Soviet base, so-called floating submarine base in the Baryon Sea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is up north.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		What happened to it is that nine helicopter-like objects approached, but they were not helicopters.
		Actually, they turned out to be disks, nine of them, strange silvery, shining discs, and they started dancing.
		So some kind of movement, rapid movement around the ship.
		And the captain, his name was Tarankin, he ordered his people to write down what had happened so that he would not be taken for a madman.
		He could not contact his base.
		Remember this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard any of this before.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		In my book, you will meet about, you know, that cylindrical, gigantic cylindrical objects had been seen.
		Back in 1953, there was a very interesting case over Siberia, well reported.
		I even have drawings, by a scientist, imprisoned scientist, who was a hell of a guy, fearless, hated communists, and was one of their top scientists at the same time.
		Well, up over the tundra, he had observed this gigantic cylindric-like object, and the KGB came over, actually, rushed in to study it, but because of the effect, biological effect, you know, done by this object, they ran away, but they forced the scientists to stay on and study it.
		Hilmas died, and then the Soviets actually sent, I think, three aircraft against it.
		And although the order was, don't shoot at such objects, they did shoot, and as a result, they still don't know what happened to the planes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They disappeared?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		It's not the only time, but 1953, you know, this was quite an interesting year in ufology.
		And in this, this happened.
		Again, the same cylindrical, gigantic cylindrical object.
		And I had other reports throughout, not only by military, but primarily I'm interested in military reports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
		Paul, just a quick question from the top of my head.
		Where were you during the Cuban missile crisis?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		I was three years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three years old?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't remember that, really, do you?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		No, I remember, but my parents told me that everybody was afraid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was wondering if the Russian public, if the Soviet Union at that time, told everybody what was going on.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, the aggression from the United States towards brotherly Cuba and world peace and so forth.
		But people were more cynical at the time.
		And sometimes people spoke out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		Listen, we have one more hour.
		Can you stay or do you want to go to bed?
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		It's your choice.
		I have an appointment.
		I need to leave.
		But let's do it.
		I promise we can do it the next time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Call me and we can set it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Done deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for being here.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Paul.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
unidentified		Whew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was something.
unidentified		Yours cold as ice.
		You're willing to sacrifice our love.
		You're willing to sacrifice our love.
		You never take it back.
		Someday you're paying price.
		No, fucking ready.
		I'm fucking ready.
		You're fucking ready.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that last hour was really something, wasn't it?
unidentified		Want to take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with Art on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I thought this might do to get your blood moving a little bit.
unidentified		That is unless it is already pumping.
		Oh, my God.
		Stop it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		anybody remember this They were way ahead of their time, you know.
unidentified		This, of course, is E-L-O.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electric light workers drive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		play quite a bit of their stuff as bumper music all the time.
unidentified		We were in the evening and rocking out all through the night.
		Yeah, we were rocking every other house until the break of light.
		And the only soul played all so very straight in tune.
		And the singers in the car was all got off on the blue.
		And as the night came over, everybody was the one.
		The people on the streets keep putting in to the gun inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me, you about ready for Open Lines?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		because it's coming up next.
unidentified		I saw something in there but I wasn't really sure but it's all right.
unidentified		Ha, ha, ha, ha.
paul stonehill ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Memories, memories, memories.
		All right, we are going to open lines and talk about anything you want to talk about, but I've got some pretty strange stuff to lay on you, and so I'll do that, and then we'll open the lines next.
		All right, I've got a couple of things I really want to get on the air here.
		One, I hope we can get a link to it.
		Keith Rowland, are you listening?
		I sent you a link to this.
		It's in the Portland Press Herald, and I had a phone call about it last night, but I was afraid to air this because I, you know, to go further with it last night because I didn't have confirmation of it.
		Well, I've got the newspaper story in front of me from the Portland Press Herald.
		And the headline is, front page, state keeps Y2K report secret.
		Subheadline.
		Officials pay $600,000 for the study of Y2K readiness but citing security.
		Order there be no written report.
		Now, let us think about that a little bit, alright?
		They paid the better part of, well, certainly over a half million dollars, anyway, $600,000, a lot of money, for a Y2K readiness report, but they said don't put one damn word of it on paper.
		They took the report vocally and then closed the lid on it.
		Now this is on the front page of the Portland Press Herald.
		Now I'm look, I'm still, I want you to know, I've got an open mind on Y2K, but it's crap like this.
		It scares the stuffing out of me.
		Why would they order a Y2K?
		You know, obviously not to panic the public in some way.
		Here's somebody on the front page who is quoted as saying, you know, in response to this, I guess they interviewed some people.
		Having a report that's not in writing so that it will not become public just feeds the public frenzy that something is being kept from me.
		Frankly, it sounds like it is, end quote.
		Marge, and I can't make out Marge's last name, but I mean, this is on the front of the Portland paper here.
		Why would they do that unless there were things that they did not want us to know about the readiness of one city?
		I don't know, something about it.
		Then I've got another article here, looks like front page, Seattle Post Intelligencer.
		And it's entitled Nuclear Blob Grows at Hanford.
		That's right.
		Nuclear Blob Grows at Hanford.
		So in a moment we will get to that report.
		How would you like to look and feel 10 years younger in ten weeks?
		We already did that.
		Let's get to the report now.
		A giant radioactive, they call it Scoffel, S-O-U-F-F-L-E, SOFL, is rising toward the top of a million-gallon tank of nuclear waste buried near Richland.
		Richland, Washington.
		Great.
		Whipped up by unexpectedly, an unexpected action, I guess, by a pump that was supposed to instead dissipate pockets of hydrogen gas, the waste has smothered one tube for vapor sampling, threatens other instruments, could eventually, they say, overflow, according to officials of the Department of Energy and the contractor in charge of that tank.
		Now, that would be a Lockheed Martin Hanford Corporation.
		They are rushing to pump some of the waste into another tank, possibly within a month.
		In May, workers stopped the growth, at least temporarily, by lancing the crust with high-pressure water jets.
		But the hole they made is beginning to close.
		This is fairly worrisome stuff from my point of view.
		Very worrisome stuff.
		A giant bubble.
		In other words, they put in a pump to ensure this kind of thing wouldn't happen, and instead of relieving it, it actually caused it.
		So they've got a blob, a nuclear blob, growing at a million-gallon tank at Hanford.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you wonder why I have storeable food report advertisements and such here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, Arc.
		This is Dave from Orange Cool, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at us a little bit.
unidentified		You're not very loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get close to the phone.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Calling about anything new on the sightings in Mexico City?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have nothing recent.
		Jaime Mazzan, I think, was interviewed recently on that.
		And he would have had the latest.
		I didn't catch the program, but I think I forget.
		One of my guest hosts had Jaime Mazzan on recently.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Well, thanks a lot, Mrs. Fisher, all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Pamela in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Pamela.
unidentified		The only thing to worry about Y2K about is that people are addicted to electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they certainly are.
unidentified		And it's not necessarily a good idea.
unidentified		You remember Mr. Hoag last night started out saying that we are addicted to this lifestyle of overextending ourselves and the only way to save the planet is to get back in touch with what's supposed to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, fat chance we're going to do that voluntarily.
unidentified		Isn't that true?
		I took the news kicking and screaming myself.
		I refuse to admit that there's absolutely anything wrong with the way I see the world.
		I think I'm a very healthy person, and to have to stop drinking was a real blow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I know.
unidentified		Because I never misbehaved, Art.
unidentified		I never drank to excess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm not going to keep talking about this with you.
		We have done enough talking about it.
		So you have two choices.
		I'm going to give them to you, all right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One is you can continue to call the program and talk about other things, or you cannot call the program anymore.
unidentified		I told you, Art, I'm not doing this of my own free will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I'm going to have to exercise my discretion as a talk show host, and when you start doing it, I'm going to take you off the air.
unidentified		I know, Art.
unidentified		Nobody wants to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, Boy, yes, we have talked plenty about it.
		And I don't mind that you call, but to repetitively come in under cover of some other subject and then revert to that every single night, I will not tolerate.
		So you make up your own mind out there.
		If you want to contribute to the program, you're welcome to do it.
		If you are compulsively driven to talk only about your alcohol problem, then we're not going to continue with you.
		You make up your own mind, your choice.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, all right, that woman is hilarious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's not hilarious.
		It's really kind of sad.
		I understand she's driven to do that, but I'm not going to have it night after night after night.
		That's all.
unidentified		By the way, Suffle, it's actually souffle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Souffle?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's souffle?
unidentified		Nuclear souffle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nuclear souffle?
unidentified		Yeah, I just had some yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it worry you a little bit?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to talk about a blob growing in a million-gallon tank of nuclear waste is really something to think about if you're up in that area.
unidentified		Highly irregular, I'd say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Highly irregular, yes.
unidentified		Actually, what I'm calling about is that prediction that Ed Dames made seven or eight months ago, that in July or August, using his remote viewing technique, he interpreted one of the quatrains of Nostradamus to mean that there would be an attack on a U.S. stadium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I recall.
unidentified		And it didn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has not manifested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But on the other hand, he's hit a lot of them here recently.
unidentified		Yeah, I just think it's important when he makes a prediction like that and it goes by and nothing happens.
		I think you ought to, especially when he's on, you ought to take him to task on it and point it out because I remember that show and when he was making that prediction, you spent a lot of time talking about it and saying, oh, this is going to be, this is frightening, you know, get the kids out of the room and all that.
		And, you know, you ought to devote at least some time, you know, when he's wrong, to, you know, to talking about that.
		Well, here's one that he missed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I have you for.
		And lots of other people.
		I mean, you're welcome to go up and slam anybody around whenever they miss one, but also know when they make one.
unidentified		yeah well that i would love to and it's you know because like uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		a lot of times you'll ask if you look at you know Did he say that?
		Yeah, he said that.
		You forgot that, huh?
unidentified		No, I guess I didn't hear it, but I mean, he ought to, like, publish them before they happen and have them, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when he goes on the radio and gives them, that's like publishing them.
		And obviously, you have some hits, you have some misses.
		That's all there is to it.
		He doesn't claim short.
		If you listen to Ed Dames carefully, he says that only predictions that are done by the entire group at SciTech will be guaranteed to be 100%.
		Anything else, independent work he's done and so forth, is not 100% at all, and he doesn't claim it.
unidentified		But I remember that the Nostradamus thing was one that he claimed that several members had worked on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He looked at Nostradamus' quatrain.
		That's true.
		And by the way, don't give up yet.
		We've got one more day before the quatrain, even with liberal interpretation through SEPT, is not valid.
unidentified		I'm just waiting for him to come on and say that the attack from the sky was the mosquitoes they have now in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Encephalitis?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's already occurred to you as a possibility, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		It's true, isn't it?
		Now, check me if I'm wrong, but it did come from the sky.
		It is mosquito and bird-born, right?
		Mosquitoes biting birds and then people.
		And the press has gone out of its way, unusually, to indicate that this thing has never been seen in North America before and was confined to Africa as if in great puzzlement.
		I mean, that is true, right?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, all right.
		It's Tony calling from Vancouver, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tony.
unidentified		I just wanted to lighten things up a little bit and talk about a comment you made when you were going into some of your bumper music a while ago with ABBA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And you were saying, I wonder why we don't hear the accents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when ABBA sings, all the accents are gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you could not detect them from a bunch of LA Valley girls.
unidentified		That's true.
		But I think the reason for that is, and you've had neurologists and people like that on your program, and it might be worth asking them about this the next time you have one on.
		But it's different centers in the brain responsible for speech and singing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And they're actually not that close together on the brain.
		And that's why people who have a bad stuttering problem can sing.
		Like Mel Tilis is a classic example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I certainly have heard that, yes.
unidentified		Though I think that's probably the reason the different actual centers in the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a point well made.
		Thank you very much, sir.
		And yes, if you listen to ABBA carefully, you've got to understand they're not Americans.
		For the most part, I don't think speak English.
		But they sing English flawlessly.
		Absolutely flawlessly.
		That's all there is to it.
		I've always been a big fan of girl harmony.
		And, you know, a lot of girls in the ABBA group.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
unidentified		Okay, this is Lance calling from AM600 in Montreal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, I had two questions I wanted to ask you about some prior guests you'd had on the show.
		Okay.
		I'm actually piloting the transmitter here in Montreal, and I listen to the show a lot.
		So you did a show with a guest.
		I can't remember his name.
		It was about reverse speech.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I was absolutely dumbfounded with what I heard that night.
unidentified		I was wondering if you were going to have that guest on another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The guest you refer to is David Oates.
unidentified		David Oates.
		Okay, that was one.
		And I've heard you make references to Mel's Hole many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And if you could just briefly, maybe if I hang up and just listen, if you could run down what that was all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll see what I can do.
		With reference to your first question, not very likely.
		With reference to your second question, Mel's Hole.
		You know what?
		I'll tell you what.
		I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
		To sit here and try and explain the saga of Mel's Hole to you would be impossible, but it just occurred to me that this is a program that we could probably cobble together.
		We did a couple on Mel's Hole.
		And maybe one night as a repeat program, we'll put Mel's Hole on and we'll let you decide for yourself.
		It really took several hours for the story to unwind.
		And it was absolutely riveting and intriguing about a very, very deep hole in the ground in eastern Washington, potentially an endless hole.
		And I think we could probably cobble together a couple of shows and get a full five hours on Mel's Hole that would absolutely astound you.
		I will make that request to the network and see what we can do.
		So that's it in brief, but the minutiae of that story is astounding.
		And so I'll see if we can get it on the air again.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Anthony in Fairbanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fairbanks, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I've got three quick questions for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Some time ago, you had a doctor on the air as a guest, and an alien he said had killed his dog, and then he, in turn, had hit the alien with a stick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be Dr. Reed.
unidentified		Yes.
		Didn't you say you're going to have an update on that sometime?
		Soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have heard from Dr. Reed and his partner, and they will soon have more information for us, and they've got my number, and as soon as they're ready to go public, I'll give them airtime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when I get the call, you'll get the story.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And the second question, some time ago, that computer program that you have, and you said you have to focus your mind on it and try to clarify one picture as it forms on the computer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct, yes.
unidentified		Did you ever put that on the webcam like you said you were thinking of doing and having everybody focus on it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think I put it on a webcam, but we did make that software program available to anybody who wanted to download it some time ago.
unidentified		Okay, and the last question.
unidentified		The publisher of your Afterdark newsletter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Have you ever heard of any of their computers or Y2K compliant?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		But I'll tell you a little story, and it is as follows.
		I've got one, two, three, four, five computers in the house.
		And I did a Y2K compliance test on mine.
		And one of them is a brand new laptop, you know, a 300 megahertz laptop.
		Every single one of them failed.
		Every single one of them failed.
		And was going to toy with the 1900 date.
		Now, how that would have, you know, affected operation, I don't know.
		But they all failed.
unidentified		Though I would not give you false hope on the straight morning, but your mother children is only emotional.
		Oh, good God for mine.
		I care for the life of me.
		Remember a Saturday.
		I know that they let me just won't work out that way.
		I see your face before me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I feel the same way about it.
unidentified		It's written on the wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can't you feel it?
		Got a couple of facts here that are kind of interesting.
		Andy in Los Angeles says, hey, Mark, you know why the Dark Ages happened?
		Why?
		1K.
		And then maybe from Coos Bay, Oregon, something not quite as humorous seems to come from a power company at the request of a customer that says we've been getting a lot of calls from our customers asking if we'll still be able to deliver electricity to them on January 1st, 2000.
		and the answer is a very definite probably we'd like to be difficult to be Definite probably.
		We'd like to be able to give you a 100% guarantee, but it's just not possible in this situation.
		We've been working on the various parts of the Y2K problem for over two years, and we're at about 99% now in readiness.
		It's probably simplest to view our systems as two groups, those that are involved directly in our ability to provide power, and those that are not.
		The first group would include things like switching equipment, remote metering, monitoring equipment, diagnostic equipment.
		Those are the things most critical in actually delivering power.
		That group of systems is 100% ready for the year 2000.
		But the second group would include things like our internet computer systems, inventory systems, billing programs.
		Those systems are about 98% ready for the year 2000, and we expect to be 100% by October 1st, 1999.
		That would be tomorrow, right?
		But keep in mind that we don't generate the power we sell to our customers.
		That power is generated at dams on the Columbia River by the Bonneville Power Administration, or BPA.
		So we have to rely on them to keep the power flowing to us.
		And they seem to be on top of their situation.
		They've had a plan in place for several years to deal with Y2K, and they're even a little ahead of schedule.
		If you have internet access, it gives a web page and so forth.
		So I really like the way they opened this up with regard to the chances of having power.
		It's a definite primary.
unidentified		Probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell you what, I was so blown away by this Portland Press Herald fax that I got.
		It's of the front page.
		It was Wednesday's Portland Press Herald.
		That I've held it up.
		I've held it up.
		It was September 29th, Wednesday.
		I've held it up on the webcam.
		And I'm going to leave that photograph up there.
		Again, Portland Press Herald.
		You can go take a look at it.
		If you go to my website at www.artbell.com, A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
		And on the left-hand side, you'll see Studio Cam, I think it says.
		And take a look at that.
		And think about it a little bit.
		State keeps Y2K report secret.
		Secret.
		Now, in the body of the article, they described a report which was an oral report that cost $600,000.
		And they took it in chambers in secret.
		And I guess it's also at www.portland.com for you, Keith, if you happen to be looking for it.
		But I really think that people should see this.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Ark.
unidentified		Let me grab my ripper real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
unidentified		I wanted to call up.
unidentified		I'm calling from Denver, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Denver, all right?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I am one Christian here who would not be threatened by any UFOs or aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		And the reason why is this, I belong to a Christian religion who have believed that there are as many inhabited worlds as there are sands on all the beaches of the world.
		That we are far from being alone.
		And also that the next world we go to, if you're righteous, you're right here on earth, just on a different plane of existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very broad, interesting view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What religion is that?
unidentified		It's the Mormon religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Mormon religion.
		So the Mormons then believe that there's life all over the place.
		Who do they believe created that life?
unidentified		God, Creator, Heavenly Father.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Created all of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not just us, but all of the other little grains of sand.
unidentified		Yes.
		And to me, if they came, it would be from one of those two groups.
		And they could look a lot different from us.
		I mean, all of us here on Earth are created in His image, and look what difference there is in humans here on this earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, why would there be a difference if it was his image somewhere else?
unidentified		Well, what I'm saying is they don't all look Scandinavian here on Earth, right?
		I mean, there's a tribe in Africa that's over seven feet tall on average, and then there's pygmies.
		And we all...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of legs, a couple of arms, couple of eyes, nose, mouth, all that sort of thing, right?
unidentified		Yeah, and if they were humans, that's what form they would have.
		You're right, I see what you're saying.
		If there's something else...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was my question.
		In other words, if all are created in his image, then when we get to that other grain of sand, they ought to look pretty much like we do, right?
		With minor modifications, ranging from seven-foot Africans to pygmies, but within that range.
		That's a good question, anyway.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
		Going once?
		Going Carrie.
		Oh, you are there.
		Okay.
		Where are you?
unidentified		In Cary, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Yeah, you were talking about the nuclear waste earlier, and my brother-in-law, he used to fly for SAC in the B-52s.
unidentified		And did you realize that they actually, one of their aircraft was going down, and they dropped a nuclear bomb in the dismal swamp around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's up by the coast.
unidentified		Did you hear about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember that?
		I remember they dropped one in the ocean, and they were having a lot of trouble getting that one.
		I don't recall the swampland of North Carolina.
unidentified		Yeah, and they apparently don't have the technology to get it out, so they've got it chained off, and apparently it's safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they know where it is, but they can't get it out.
unidentified		Yeah, they can't get it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they build a little fence around it.
unidentified		Yeah, and they keep guard on it.
		I think he was.
		You know, we were all talking about the Y2K thing, and you remember the satellite or the GPS a couple weeks ago where the week 10,054 clicked around?
		Yes.
		He was actually flying.
		They had gone through and corrected all their code, of course, and his nav system actually went down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any GPS constructed before a certain date died.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all there was to it.
unidentified		And even after they had rewritten the code, they still died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still died, huh?
		Well, somebody doesn't have a piece of code where it ought to be, but it's still possible.
		Thank you very much.
		It's possible to get a GPS unit that works.
		It's not the satellites that went out.
		It's the units themselves.
		They couldn't do it, and they just, they did die.
		All of the units prior to certain manufacturer date died.
		Simple as that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		Is this Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Well, magnificent art.
unidentified		I've been trying to get through for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's number one.
unidentified		There we go.
		Good.
		Years ago, I was listening to the old Blue Network, and a guy was on there by the name of Frank Edwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blue Network?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's before my time.
unidentified		Well, I'm 65 today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're before my time.
unidentified		So the point being is that the book, Flying Saucer's Serious Business, is that still going around?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's still available, I believe, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, because Frank Edwards started talking about this in the late 40s, and he got me interested in it.
		And then I lived in Los Angeles.
		Ray Breen got me interested in Nikolai Tesla.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Ray talked about that kind of thing for years and years.
		Sure.
		I know Ray well.
unidentified		K-L-A-C.
		Hey, you play some bumper music.
		I want to ask you about it.
		It's called Love's All Right by a young woman.
		What's the name of that CD?
		It's a beautiful CD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry that Love's All Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't click with me.
unidentified		You play it constantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you don't have to.
unidentified		It's All Right, blah, blah, blah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right, blah, blah, blah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That just doesn't do it for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right, blah, blah, blah.
unidentified		I've had a little more than that, but it's been great talking to your art.
unidentified		And this is a great program that explores what nobody else wants to talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That does, all right.
		Thank you very much.
		It's all right, blah, blah, blah.
		Maybe somebody out there can help me with that.
		It's all right, blah, blah, blah.
		It's alright is not the title.
		It's part of the song.
		It is the traditional difficulty in finding any song.
		And believe me, I have spent countless hours, if not days, racking my brain, calling up people who I know, who know any record, and humming to them with limited and sometimes no success at all.
		But it's all right.
		Recited to me, not sung.
		Blah, blah, blah is not going to get me there.
		Sorry.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		Let me get this radio down.
unidentified		I'm in Seattle here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, you know, the guy just called from the LDS church saying many grains of sandblah or whatever.
		Yes.
		I wonder, what is your...
		Yes.
		I'm a pretty mainstream Christian.
		I don't hold that view.
		I hold the view that even there may be even more than one God in different parts of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're not a mainstream Christian.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, but...
unidentified		I'll take that label.
unidentified		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, alright, as long as you accept that, then your view is fine.
unidentified		The thing that I wonder is, you know, we have brothers and sisters.
		Why can't he?
		I know that our Bible teaches that there's one and only, but what if we went to another planet and we found a Bible there that had the Adam and Eve story that was similar?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the average Christian would be ecstatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's not the likelihood, frankly.
unidentified		Well, I guess that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, who knows?
unidentified		I tend to believe that we certainly are not alone in the universe.
unidentified		It's just way too big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, really, to contemplate what you just suggested is incredible.
		That might be the biggest surprise of all.
		Imagine the shock.
		Imagine the scientists going berserk.
		Imagine NASA swallowing hard.
		I mean, we finally make it through hook or crook or a black hole or whatever, and we get to some other civilization.
		I mean, we pop out on the other side of a black hole in a machine or a spaceship or whatever, and there is a planet revolving with obvious cities lit up like a Christmas tree, you know, kind of like Earth must look like.
		And on it, we find beings very much like ourselves, bipeds, you know, all the usual features, right?
		In the range that that man talked about.
		And when we investigate their belief system as we begin to communicate with them, we find a record either identical to or nearly identical to our Bible.
		That would have as big an impact as the other possibility, wouldn't it?
		A first-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Is this Arbell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm the one.
unidentified		Wow.
		I just wanted to call about the lady in Seattle.
		She mentioned something about a bit of reality.
		She's the alcoholic lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she calls about that every night.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That she can manage to get through.
unidentified		Well, actually, I'm surprised I got through.
unidentified		Anyway, she said something about the main problem of Y2K being that we're addicted to electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the one intro she used to begin talking about what you want to talk about.
		You're right, though.
		Yes, she said that.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, I just kind of wanted to point out to her and maybe to a lot of other people, I think you had it on one of your shows before, if that's the only problem with Y2K.
		I mean, I believe our nuclear plants need electricity to cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They do.
unidentified		There's over four, I think there's 420 nuclear plants in the world right now, and a lot of them are having problems with the Y2K problem.
unidentified		And if we don't have electricity, then we're not going to be able to cool them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, they have backup systems.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gallery banks and that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I presume that they are going to look at things enough ahead of time so that they will begin to turn them off if they think there's going to be a problem.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, I did some research, and I believe it takes probably four months to cool a nuclear reactor.
		And they don't think that they're going to have enough backup power to actually run the entire plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure there will not be, definitely will not be a problem, probably.
unidentified		Well, I hope not.
unidentified		And I'm Wayne, and I'm in West Richland, Washington, above the nuclear souffle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nuclear souffle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what do you think about that?
unidentified		Well, I just hope that it's not too big of a problem, that they can't handle it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big bubbles in million-gallon tanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's bad.
unidentified		That's kind of scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it really is.
unidentified		It might have been one of the sirens I heard go off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope not.
unidentified		We can see the nuclear plant from here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can see it from there?
unidentified		Yeah, we're on a hill in West Richland.
		I'm on a hill.
		And we can see it from where we live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, sirens would take on a whole new meaning for you, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, definitely.
unidentified		And you can hear them from here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a 20-year-old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, it's a 20-year-old tank called SY101, buried just under the surface at Hanford.
unidentified		SY 101.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		Well, I'll see if I can get some information for you.
unidentified		Maybe I'll try to call back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says the waste in the tank produces unwanted hydrogen as radiation bombards organic chemicals that were added years ago in what officials now say was a mistaken strategy to reduce the waste volume.
unidentified		And what do they say is going to happen if it does reach the surface, this bubble?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they are concerned about the possibility, of course, of an explosion, which would be really bad, especially bad for anybody who can see Hanford.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sure.
		So.
		Well, hopefully we go up quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, hopefully.
		I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Well, thank you, sir, and have a good night.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's in the Seattle Post Intelligencer.
		Let's see.
		The Monday morning edition, September 27th, in case anybody wants to check it out.
		I'm torn between which one of these is the more meaningful one to hold up for the studio cam, but I've chosen the Portland Press Herald.
		We can get a link, no doubt, to the Post Intelligencer as well.
		Nuclear Blob Grows at Hanford.
		Great headline.
		Wouldn't it be nice if you had a sort of scenic view out your window of Hanford?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Is it Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Carol from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carol, we have so little time.
		You can't believe it.
		The show is ending.
		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Okay, I wanted to talk about when you had Betty E on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And she had talked about, I know what you did with several of your friends when they were having surgery and we all got together and prayed for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it went true.
		Yes.
		And she was saying that we can change the outcome of So would you ever consider putting it in your, or implementing into your program at a specific time every night that everyone put out goodwill towards the planet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking about the whole thing, hon. Giving it a very great deal of consideration.
		So bear with me.
		In the meantime, my show is over.
		Tell everybody out there, nighty night.
unidentified		Good night, America.
unidentified		We love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		Indeed, we do.
		That's it for tonight, folks.
		See you tomorrow night.
		Should be very interesting, Dr. Evelyn Paglini on the dark side of magic in the high desert.

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