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Sept. 2, 1999 - Art Bell

01:52:00

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joyce Riley - Gulf War Syndrome and Waco Investigation

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47:46

joyce riley

39:20

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reverend Eff Waco tonight with some very shocking news.
		We're also going to talk about the Gulf War Syndrome.
		And I think we'll begin with an update on the Gulf War Syndrome and some associated news for you in a few moments.
		Listen.
		Joyce Riley is a registered nurse of 27 years and is presently spokesperson for the American Gulf War Veterans Association.
		For 10 years, she has served as a consultant and expert witness for medical malpractice trials involving nursing negligence.
		She has served as a director of nursing in four institutions, as a heart transplant nurse and a charge nurse of a federal prison infirmary.
		She now investigates the unwitting use of military and civilian populations for biological, chemical, and mind control experiments by the Department of Defense and CIA.
		The most recent investigations center into the plight of the Gulf War veterans.
		Working in conjunction with Vietnam Veterans Wives Association under the name of Project Brave Heart, their goals are to expose the experiments, including Agent Orange exposure victims, obtain adequate compensation for the injured servicemen and women.
		We are going to talk about Waco in a bit, but first we're going to sort of update ourselves on the Gulf War syndrome problem, whatever you want to call it.
		It's awful and it's real, and it has touched me personally.
		Joyce, welcome.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Arn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to have you back.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and it is my pleasure, believe me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you, Joyce, about, oh, I don't know, several months ago now, a very close friend, a very, very close friend of mine named John Pyre, died unexpectedly quickly.
		He had been in Vietnam.
		He had been exposed to Agent Orange.
		And I came on the program in quite a state of grief about the whole thing and talked about his dying, passing away.
		And the events with regard to his death are bizarre, unclear.
		The events surrounding his death and his exposure to Agent Orange are being suppressed, hidden.
		There's evasion going on.
		People are not producing records.
		Records are turning up lost.
		Fortunately, his wife, who's a friend of mine, has kept those records and has now dispersed them to several safe geographic locations.
		But Joyce, as the surviving wife, as you know, she's going through hell.
		And she is representative of what a lot of wives are going through now and families, isn't she?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		There are thousands of women and thousands of families that go through this very same thing, regardless of whether it was exposure to the atomic radiation or various experiments during the military or Agent Orange Gulf World Illness, whatever.
		And the plight of these people is so incredibly painful because the burden of proof is always on the person that is left to prove up the case.
		And I deal with these people all the time, and there's only so much sometimes that we can do for them.
		My heart goes out to them because they're left with a world that they don't understand, a lot of material they don't know anything about, and a system that is absolutely an adversarial system.
		The Veterans Administration, the Department of Defense, does everything it can to disprove, disqualify, and eliminate people from obtaining their just compensation or even truth as to why they died.
		And we have found out that there is collusion with the Veterans Administration and the service organizations to the point now where there have never been more than 5% claims ever given or granted in any one year to servicemen, regardless of how needy and how appropriate the claims were.
		This whole system needs to be overhauled because we have found fraud, we have found fraud, we have found fraud.
		And now we're dealing with GOPOR illness.
		And I'm personally now going to these facilities and having to see what these fouses go through.
		And I don't know how she does it because, I mean, it's a difficult system to me.
		And I don't have a personal involvement with a deceased husband.
		And my heart goes out to these women.
		And I think that it's time that we bring to light just how difficult the system is and how inappropriate so that we can give them some kinds of support and assistance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's a problem that Donna has run into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that you, Mike, has talked with Donna and referred her to somebody in Washington, correct?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that person was who?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I referred her to Dana Hughes, the Vietnam Veterans Wives out of Republic, Washington.
		This lady is a husband who is sick with Agent Orange and a son who is sick with Gulf War illness.
		And she knows the system inside and out and has been fighting it for a long time.
		And I will tell you, if anyone can get a claim through and make an impression upon the VA system, it is Dana Hughes.
		And that's why Dana and I have joined together with Operation Braveheart because we feel like there are no veteran organizations out there that are really advocates for the veterans.
		And some of our research has turned up some interesting things, and I have not shared this with you, Art, but it's on our website.
		We have on our website, listen to the title of this, Classified.
		Confidential Status 1.
		Warning, not for publication and release to the general public.
		The title is Report to the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs on the Association between the Adverse Health Effects and Exposure to Agent Orange.
		And it is classified.
		It comes out of the Department of Veterans Affairs, and it was authored by Admiral Zimwald in 1990, but it says warning on it, not for release to the public.
		It's on our website.
		I believe it's under Hot News.
		And this whole 57-page document can be downloaded by any Agent Orange sufferer, and you will see information in there that will actually make you so angry to see that the lies have been going on for so long.
		And in here, Zimwalt admits the truth about Agent Orange.
		So I encourage people to go there.
		But it's only through this kind of research can we bring forward the information that the DOD and the VA has been having for a long time that could have made Donna's plight a whole lot easier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, Donna, of course, spoke with her, and Donna received documents from her.
		And Donna's comment about the documents was, oh my God, what your husband was involved in, no wonder.
		That was her comment.
		Now, I'm saying this publicly because I want protection for Donna.
		She was warned that she may well get a visit in the middle of the night.
		Her house might be broken into.
		And anybody considering that right now might well give it up because those documents are now spread out safely, number one.
		Number two, I'd raise holy hell because John was such a good friend of mine.
		And number three, they are now, of course, proceeding.
		But your friend was quite shocked at some of the documents that were produced, Joyce.
		And again, this is just my friend's surviving widow, and it's just one case.
		But it's typical, obviously, of what's going on all over the place.
		Runaround, deception.
		We're doing this to the people who have fought for their country.
		What has happened to our country, Joyce, that we're doing this, to our own people?
		What's happened to us?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I have found over the past four years in my investigation came as a total shock to me because I had no idea that your friend may have just very well have been involved in experiments by the U.S. government on its own military because we found Senate Report 103-97, which is in its entirety on GulfWarvets.com, that's Gulf War Vets, No Caps, No Spaces, GulfWarvets.com.
		103-97 says its first statement is, during the last 50 years, hundreds of thousands of our military have been used in experiments without their consent.
		So we have people dying of very, very bizarre diseases.
		They are dying before their time.
		If you go into a VA hospital, I'm sure you have, and you know that people look 10 times sicker in there that are the same age as anybody in a regular hospital.
		They have been used.
		In fact, we have gotten the information on MKUltra, the use of BZ, the use of LSD on Vietnam veterans.
		While they were fighting, they gave them a dose of BZ or LSD to see what would happen.
		Then they had continuous flashbacks, and they were relegated to the emotionally ill category when they were, in fact, a result of an experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've had a number of people speak about MKUltra, and inevitably, Joyce, you asked them, well, if they were doing that then and admit that now, then what do you suppose they're doing now?
		And most people say, oh, nothing.
		They really learned their lesson.
		Why, they're not experimenting anymore.
		I think that's bull.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, unfortunately, the Department of Defense did not have a religious experience in 1977 and stopped these projects.
		They are going on.
		In fact, I got information from the Army War College dated 1994 that talks about the so-called behavior modification program that will have to be instituted to shape people's beliefs and change their minds.
		It talks about the takeover of a country prior to war, and it is entitled The Revolution in Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War, right out of the Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joyce, hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		And again, my very good friend, deceased now, John Pyre, who was a retired FBI, and prior to that was in Vietnam fighting for his country and doing a lot of very secret kinds of things, very secret kinds of things, died a really terrible death.
		And his body was racked with tumors.
		And he definitely had been exposed to Agent Orange and had those records.
		And they're disappearing.
unidentified		And we're not going to let that happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
unidentified		Coast AF We've been traveling far.
		We've been traveling far.
		Thank you.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach Art on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Kingdom of Nye, indeed.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Or at least the majority of you.
		It's morning now.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Joyce Riley.
		And we're discussing one case right Now, and really, many, many, many, many cases.
		But this case involves my friend, now deceased, named John Pyre, who was retired FBI in government service all his life, was in Vietnam at a very, very, very high level.
		In fact, there are pictures with Westmoreland and other luminaries of the Vietnam era.
		And he had exposure to Agent Orange, and I can tell you some things about my friend John.
		He had skin rashes that you wouldn't believe.
		He had skin that would turn black and fall off.
		His body was racked with tumors.
		He was in unimaginable shape when he actually died, something that he kept well hidden from his family.
		However, he had established that he was suffering exposure from Agent Orange.
		Now, a lot of records are disappearing, but a lot of records still exist.
		And I'm just not going to let this happen.
		His wife, Donna, is trying desperately now to even properly establish the cause of death.
		And to all those associated with this case and others like it, be assured that a lot of us are not going to let this go, and we're not going to let you go, and we're not going to let you get away with it.
		You're not going to get away with it.
		So it's time to own up and take responsibility for what we have done to our own and take care of them.
		It's the very least we can do.
		We'll go back to Joyce Riley in a moment.
		Back now to Joyce Riley.
		And again, with respect to my friend, deceased John Pyre and his surviving wife, Donna, I'm not going to let go of this, Joyce, much as you're not going to let go of I know a lot of what you're working on.
		The question is, are we going to be able to break through?
		Are they going to finally own up?
		Are we going to finally begin to take care of our own?
		Or are we going to have to continue fighting our own damn government to do the right thing?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I think that depends on the American people.
		I can only do so much, you can only do so much.
		But you don't hear anyone fighting for the veterans.
		I mean, you hear the service organizations with their slick four-color magazines, but there is no real advocacy for veterans.
		They are left out there to just fend for themselves.
		And your friend, I mean, he has suffered in silence.
		He was one of those people that didn't want to complain about what happened to him, but it should not have happened to him in the first place.
		This is not a compensation issue.
		It is not a, gee, we're trying to get money for people issue.
		This is an issue of we have a government with a Declaration of Independence, a Bill of Rights, a Constitution, and a Nuremberg Code that says you do not experiment upon one American anytime, any place.
		You don't experiment upon 500 blacks or 1,000 Eskimos.
		You don't do it, and it's been allowed.
		And President Clinton comes forward after the Tuskegee Institute services, in which they allowed people to die to see how the experiment would work.
		And he apologizes on behalf of the American government.
		No, I want President Clinton to bring with him a list of indictments of the people that will spend the rest of their natural lives in prison for what they did.
		We have got to get this out of our heads that it is okay for the greater good to do these experiments.
		It is not.
		And so where we have come in this country is we have been sitting at a table art where we have been braiding the rope that we are going to allow them to hang us with.
		And so we now are going to stand up and say, enough is enough.
		And that's why Rolling Thunder went to Washington, D.C., and that's why we're doing what we are doing.
		But, you know, we are no match for the Department of Defense's PR budget and the equipment that they have and the amount of time and energy and people they have.
		I've been doing this on my own.
		Individuals do this.
		Dana does it on her own also.
		We do this because we love the veteran and because these veterans have been kicked to the side of the curb like a dead animal.
		And I will not allow it to happen and thank God there are people like you that feel the way that you do because if we do not stand up, it will continue to happen right into the Gulf War issue.
		And we are now losing thousands of our veterans that are dying and no one even knows about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're dying terrible deaths, Joyce.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Horrific, painful deaths.
		On our website is a young man named Scott Siefkin.
		Scott had the rash like you were talking about and the VA said we must remove his skin.
		They removed his skin.
		The VA did because they had a good experimental skin.
		Well, I've been a tissue transplant nurse and you don't remove anyone's skin.
		And on the website is a picture of America's hero, Scott Siefkin, after the VA experimented upon him, removed his skin, and God bless him.
		May he rest in peace.
		He's no longer with us.
		And his son was born two weeks after he died.
		And I want to tell the world that his parents, Raleigh and Artie Siefkin, moved to Versales, Missouri, where I live this past week to say we need to fulfill a deathbed promise to our son that we will try and save the rest of his brothers and sisters that served under the Constitution of this United States of America.
		And Raleigh and Artie Siefkin are now here in Versales.
		It's a small town of 2,000, and we are going to get together with the American public, and there's going to be a Mother's March now.
		But we have to do it because the experiments, and by the way, you recall, we talked about Title 50, United States Code Annotated.
		Yes.
		That allows the U.S. government to experiment with the American people.
unidentified		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520.
		Well, Section 1520 was repealed in 1997.
		We were so excited.
		We were so happy.
		Well, guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Title 1520A even makes it more explicit that they can experiment upon us for any reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's 15A?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		1520A.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1520A.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do I get Keith to get that up on the site?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Cornell Law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cornell Law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's 1520A.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And so they have now almost made it even easier to experiment by the DOD or one of their contractors.
		And we're in the same situation, only Worse.
		So it is now up to us because if they are allowed to experiment upon us without our consent, then we have given them carte blocks to use us.
		We have been sitting at the table braiding the rope, and it is now time that we take off the shackles and say, How dare you?
		Just like Gulliver's Travels and the Lilliputians, we have allowed one strand at a time to tie us down.
		And this is how we're breaking those strands.
		And the American public, every one of you out there, if you are not doing something actively to fight this, then you are participating in it.
		There is silence is consent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, everything is being done.
		For example, with respect to Donna, so that all benefits will not be given, that they will not admit anything.
		Records are disappearing.
		All of this kind of thing happening is just not the kind of thing that a nation that I came to, that I grew up in, is not the kind of thing we did.
		Past tense, huh?
		Not the kind of thing we did before, at least I don't think we did, but.
		Anyway, listen, Joyce, we've got a lot of things to cover now.
		You've got something new, some new variant of some horrid little parasite.
		What can you tell me about?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, do we have this to the top of the air to cover this?
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		What we have now among Gulf War veterans is a parasite that is inflicting these Gulf War veterans in a tragic way.
		It comes out of the skin.
		Now, this is going to sound so horrific, but I must tell you, and I must preface it by saying, the biological experiments that were transacted during the Gulf War are now becoming full force.
		These Gulf War veterans, and I have now talked to four of them, are now having sores that come upon their skin, and out of that skin, it bleeds, and a worm eats its way through to the surface of the skin.
		When that happens, there is pain, there is biting pain, and then the worm usually stays alive for about an hour and then dies.
		These records are all missing from the VA.
		I have been to the VA personally myself to find records, and these records are all being sanitized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me that it begins as a skin problem.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then some kind of parasite...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some kind of parasite actually comes out and lives for an hour.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		The worm comes out of the skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		It is called biological agent A. That is how the VA has referred to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've got three reported cases of the colour.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Florin.
		And I understand that there may be a much higher rate of antibodies within the individuals that may create this problem in the future.
		And I say this because, and I'm going to get some pictures and video of it to have on our website.
		It's not there now.
		But this is the kind of thing these veterans are dealing with, and the world knows nothing about it because we're busy with Seinfeld reruns while biological agents are being inflicted upon our troops and our military for whatever reason, God only knows.
		And we have got to stop this.
		We have got to give these people help.
		We have got to get them some kind of assistance.
		Because can you imagine living?
		And I will tell you that the last young man that told me about this said that when he lays in bed at night, he can feel them crawling throughout his skin.
		Imagine, imagine, this is torture.
		He lives and feels them crawling.
		And then when they start to come out of the skin, they bite ferociously.
		They bleed.
		He had one that came out of his tongue.
		When it came out of his tongue, there was a tremendous amount of blood.
		And it was alive in his hand.
		He showed everyone at the table.
		And this is the kind of thing our military are having to deal with.
		And the VA says this doesn't exist.
		And the DOD says it doesn't exist.
		It is a lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say, I have personally been to the VA hospital, and the medical records have been sanitized.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Which we consider to be a federal offense called spoilage of records.
		And we're going to persevere in this arena.
		And I'm glad that you are putting people on notice to protect these people and putting people on notice that these records are going to be requested.
		They are going to be obtained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish I could do it for everybody.
		You know, John was in my life, intricately in my life.
		He was a brilliant man.
		He did nothing but loyal service for his country in so many ways as an FBI agent, high up in the FBI, as a matter of fact, after his service in the military in Vietnam.
		And, you know, to kick his widow in the teeth like this totally sucks.
		And it's not something that my country does.
		It just isn't.
		And I can't stand by.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, and for every veteran out there, we are here for you.
		We want you to know that there are people that do care.
		Art cares, we care, and we will force this issue because we have a government that is out of control that would use its people for biological experimentation, for gene maneuvering.
		It's unbelievable the kinds of things that we know are going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this item on the Cornell Law site, I'm going to skip around here a little bit, 1520A.
		In what way does it differ from the old one that they got rid of when we exposed it?
		In what ways does it make it easier to experiment on the population?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Basically, it says for anything to do with research, anything to do with agriculture, anything to do with medical experiments, it just gives carte blanche.
		It just gives several categories of the reason that you can do it.
		It is just, it's more open, if you will.
		The reporting is not as extensive as I recall.
		I don't have it in front of me.
		But this is just an example of the blatancy of what is going on.
		And we sent two people from each state to the Senate and thought they would take care of us.
		And this was enacted in 1997.
		We need to get every name that voted for this art, as well as in 1977 when it was first voted into place, and find out who the people are that's the traitors to this country and have made the American public its enemy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What in heaven's name could be given to people that would cause parasites to begin to live within them and then, I suppose they're literally eating them alive, that's what parasites do, and then actually exit their skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, what kind of experiment would this be?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I have no idea what kind of experiment it can be, but we know there are all kinds of experiments now that are going, passing the species barrier.
		There's just so many.
		I don't know the motivation for this, but I will say that this is a horrendous life for these people to live because, first of all, nobody believes them.
		Secondly, they are placed into a category of wanting to isolate themselves.
		They're frightened.
		They don't know if it's transferable or not.
		We don't know.
		And then to have the VA completely eliminate all records and treat them as if they're crazy, that's not what people joined to serve this country for.
		And so now we need to bring these people out of the background and let them know that it's okay to come forward.
		We want to help you.
		By the way, we did a video called Are You a Government Guinea Pig?
		And we did this video on the American Gulf War Veterans Association to help people see the number of experiments.
		We had 12,000 people at Keeser Air Force Base that were involved in experiments at one time.
		You know, this has got to stop.
		And by the way, the website is GulfWarvets.com, and the number to get the video is 877-485-3838.
		That's 877-485-3838.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people, Joyce, simply are not going to believe us.
		They listen to what I said about my friend John.
		They listen to what you said about this new parasite thing.
		And they're going to go, baloney, it's not true.
		It can't be true.
		Our country cannot have done this to its own.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish it wasn't true, but I'm sorry it is.
		And we will have videos.
		We will have documented evidence to prove that it is real.
		Because we're going to have to do that because the burden of proof herein, again, is on the victim.
		The burden of proof is on the military person who's been inflicted with this dastardly biological experiment to have to come forward and say what is wrong with them.
		But then look at what happened at Waco.
		I mean, it's the same kind of thing of what our government has done to its own.
		And now we're in a position of knowing more about that.
		And I will tell you that what I am saying right now in your program regarding Waco art has never been released anywhere, is going to be aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, we're going to get to that in a moment.
		I want to just cover one more thing with you very quickly.
		You might find this curious.
unidentified		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did an episode of Millennium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that TV show, Millennium?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when they first sent me the script, the story, the episode that I happened to be in, was about a Gulf War veteran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know whether you happened to catch that particular episode or not.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I've gotten several reports from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, he was holding somebody hostage trying to get help for what had happened to him.
		And in the original script that was sent to me, guess what they called the illness?
		Microplasma incognitis.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I wouldn't kid you, Joyce.
		No.
		And then when we got the second or third script prior to shooting the episode, they changed the name to something else.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Was this a government script?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Jan.
		Now, am I sure that the change did not occur courtesy of the government?
		Or because there was some sort of pressure, legal or otherwise, I couldn't possibly tell you.
		I can just tell you, in the early scripts, they called it microplasma incognitus.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And do you know, Art, that we have actually obtained a patent now for this mycoplasma?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I had no idea.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		In the mail, after being on your show, I want you to know that there are a lot of people out there that are providing us this documentation.
		In a brown lanella envelope, after we discussed the fact that I am positive for this mycoplasma, I was tested at CMD Anderson Cancer Center.
		55% of the Gulf War veterans are now positive.
		I received the patent for the Mycoplasma Incognita.
		And I'll be darned if it didn't just make the hair on the back of my neck stand up because I saw right there, and it's on our website, it's on our website under Mycoplasma, Gulfwarvets.com, Art, there was the patent that was filed in 1991.
		And the inventor is listed as Dr. Shai-Ching-lo, who just now happens to be the primary medical investigator on the Gulf War illness.
		And it was paid for by the Air Force Institute of Pathology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, be damned.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		It is collusion.
		I mean, this is just genocide of our military.
		And you read those 87 pages.
		The first page is on our website.
		You have to go to the patent site to see the other 86.
		It is damning.
		It is horrific.
		But you will see the Gulf War illness there on the mycoplasma.
		Now, how did Millennium know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea, Joyce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But believe me, they knew it.
		I've got the original script to prove it.
		And it was changed by the time we did the shooting of that episode, which was, by the way, a very good episode.
		And you can probably still catch it in rerun.
		When we come back, we're going to talk about a similar thing.
		Waco.
		A government doing unto its own.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		It's nice to do and blow, watch the sun cry.
		Honey.
		The shadow is a shadow.
		And look up in your life.
		Yeah.
		Thank you.
		If you don't love me now, you will never love me again I can't feel it in this way, you will never break again And you're a man, you're a man, you're a lover, love, baby.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		To recharge held in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, aisle 1-800-618-8255.
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		To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Joyce Riley.
		Joyce, I have all kinds of information breaking about Waco.
		Just all kinds.
		I know you have new, as yet unheard by anybody, information about Waco.
		What can you tell us?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me preface this by saying the purpose for this person coming forward with the information was that he is a sick Gulf War veteran.
		And we had a long discussion about the secrets of the Gulf War illness and the cover-up involved there.
		And I said, just like Waco, there needs to be the exposure of the truth about Waco.
		And he said, I know about Waco.
		And I said, how do you know about Waco?
		And he said, I know more than I wish I knew.
		I was stationed at Fort Hood, and we were the unit that provided the Apache attack helicopters.
		You can imagine how startled I was to hear that there were Apache attack helicopters because an Apache is not even armed in the United States.
		It's never armed because it is nothing but a helicopter for war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An Apache actually was probably the most efficient killing machine in the Gulf War, so efficient that the images were hidden from the American people.
		The Apache is an incredible war machine.
		People have no idea how devastating the firepower from that helicopter can be.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
		It looks like a praying mantis.
		It is the helicopter that has the wheels on it.
		And if you were to ever see one, it is just, it's very formidable.
		And in talking with this Gulf War veteran, and part of the reason that I'm saying this today is because of his protection, because the Texas Rangers have become involved in this since I talked with UART.
		So I'm not at liberty to identify some of the things that I was going to say.
		But I did get a phone call from Dick DeGuerin today, which is the attorney for the Branch Davidian.
		And I can assure you that this information that he gave coincides with what he already knew and speculated.
		But let me just say that this Gulf War veteran, after we talked about this, I said, you know, you have a responsibility to come forward because if we want people to tell the truth about Gulf War illness, if we want the people to come out of the Pentagon and out of the corners and the back alleys and admit to what has gone on there, we're going to have to tell what we know.
		So he has come forward.
		He is a destitute, if you will, sick Gulf War veteran who has no purpose in doing this other than the world needs to know the truth.
		And it is time that we quit harboring these secrets under the name of military adventure or military action.
		What he told me is that while he was stationed at Fort Hood at the F-227 Aviation Apache Attack Squadron, that they armed the Apache helicopters to go in to Waco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They armed them.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		They armed them.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Now understanding that if what we say is true here today, this is the most devastating information to come across because this puts the liability and the accountability all the way up to the president for arming a helicopter for a war situation within the United States, basically violating the Posse Comitatas Act.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		So when he described this operation, I asked him what they armed the helicopters with.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did he say?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		He said they armed them.
		There were 20 helicopters that took turns going back and forth between Fort Hood and Waco, which was a five-minute flight or a 20-minute drive, 30-minute drive.
		They were supported by the 3rd Armored Division.
		They armed these helicopters with eight Hellfire missiles, which to the person that may not know a Hellfire, it can go through an M1 tank and it explodes into a fireball.
		There was a belly gun with an M60 armor-piercing 20-millimeter cannon.
		The round pod contained 50 on each side air-to-ground 122-millimeter rockets.
		There were also air-to-ground two-to-four Sidewinder missiles loaded on each helicopter.
		Those are, the Sidewinder missiles are the ones that are on the wings of the F-16.
		There were two Apaches at all times at Waco.
		There were Blackhawk helicopters, two to four of those with eight individuals per Blackhawk, and there were Humvees that were there.
		He also said there were Delta forces.
		He does not want to say the unit or where they came from.
		However, they were present there, and he did talk with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Delta forces.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		So there's confirmation on the Delta forces.
		Now, the critical part of this is we have weapons being deployed that are only used for a war situation.
		And by the way, when they are used at Fort Hood in the training maneuvers, he said they do not even use these weapons.
		They have a training area outside of Fort Hood, and only the red colored weapons can be used, which are the half-strength weapons.
		He said never.
		I asked him why did they think they were going into Mount Carmel?
		And he said they had been told this was a very hostile situation.
		They were heavily armed and it was a cult.
		Now, for anyone out there who does not understand, I want to clear the air with respect to David Koresh.
		I have talked with people in Waco.
		I have worked with attorneys there, and I can assure you there was no legal search warrant.
		There was no child exploitation going on there.
		This was a whole different situation than we were told.
		So it's all perception media that we received.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know the psychiatrists that examined the children that did come out, Joyce, said they found them to be well-adjusted.
		That's my recollection.
		Now, it's a long time ago, but that's what I recall.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And I also, my husband, who was doing a talk show for WATR in Winterbury, Connecticut, did an interview with Clive Doyle, who is one of the individuals who escaped from Mount Carmel.
		And I have talked to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joyce, I once worked at WATR.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many, many, many years.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
		My goodness.
		Well, two famous people, my husband and you then.
		Well, I will say that Clive Doyle has said much of what I have heard here from this individual, because this changes the whole perspective of things.
		And literally, this radio show tonight, because this information will be coming out in the Dallas Morning News.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a little more, Joyce, and I don't know whether you can comment on this or not.
		You told me very descriptively what the Apaches were armed with.
		What did they come back with?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And that is the critical issue.
		I asked him what happened at Mount Carmel the day of the fire, and he said the Apaches fired.
		They fired upon something.
		And I asked him if they had fired upon and missed Mount Carmel or fired out into a field, would there have been a hole?
		And he said, there would have been a huge, huge hole, and everyone would have known about it.
		I asked him how they knew that they fired upon Mount Carmel.
		And of course, he talked with the pilot, and he has named all the individuals.
		Then he said, we know they fired because half of the weaponry was missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Half of the ordnance was missing?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Half of those Hellfire missiles were missing.
unidentified		God.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And those are the ones that explode into a fireball.
		So this information, obviously, is now going to go to the forefront of the investigation.
		And I can only say that I am grateful that he has come forward.
		I hope he has the strength to continue on this.
		And I know this is not going to be difficult.
		This is not going to be easy for him as sick as he is also.
		And I just commend him because this is the only way if we band together as Americans to help each other, can the truth come out?
		And there's a lot of truth out there, and there's a lot of people that have information that they can provide us.
unidentified		Apparently so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, let me read to you what Matt Drudge wrote tonight and see if this resonates with you.
		Matt wrote, a federal judge wants all Waco evidence, threatens government with contempt.
		According to Friday's Atlanta Journal Constitution, U.S. District Judge Walter Smith Jr. has ordered the federal government to turn over all evidence relating to the Branch DeVidian siege at Waco by the end of the month or face a contempt of court citation.
		The Journal Constitution's Mark England and Tommy Witherspoon are reporting that Judge Smith has dismissed Justice's strongly worded 19-page motion in response to his original August 9th order as an, quote, unwarranted and substantial burden, end quote.
		Justice argued that Judge Smith's original request for all the evidence was too demanding.
		Smith wrote, quote, the court finds this argument somewhat disingenuous since the government has been in possession of this material for six and one-half years and has been aware since 1996 when the civil suits were originally filed that this material could very well be subject to discovery, end quote.
		It continues, quote, additionally, the court would have thought that the vast majority of the material now sought in this civil litigation would have already been compiled as a result of the various congressional hearings held over the Branch Davidian matter, end quote.
		Smith is set to preside over the Branch Davidian's wrongful death civil lawsuit scheduled to begin in late October.
		So here's a judge prepared to hold the U.S. government in contempt.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not threatened by that, and I'm sure that they are not threatened either.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You know, the idea is that we have lost human lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they ought to be threatened.
		We had a president, whatever you think of him, good, bad, or ugly, who held some courts in contempt and fired some special prosecutors.
		And it took a while, Joyce.
		But in the end, by God, they pried the evidence out.
		And so they better be concerned because the judicial branch of our government is not to be ignored.
		They can't hold...
unidentified		I hold our government in contempt.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think every person does.
		But I mean, for instance, they have just now announced that perhaps Mr. Rudman, Senator Rudman, will now be listed as the chief of the investigating committee on Waco.
		Well, he's the one that just headed up the Gulf War Investigating Committee and found nobody's sick and there's no problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're now all of a sudden hearing, Joyce, that the Attorney General who had just come in in the middle of this mess in Waco may not, they say, have been told everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've been hearing about that?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May not have been told everything.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		But, Art, how many people do you think know when an Apache helicopter, 20 Apache helicopters, are armed and are circling over a church?
		How many people do you think know about this?
		Do you think the Attorney General does?
		Absolutely she does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ought to.
		Certainly ought to.
		Now, it was kind of hard to tell because, as you recall during the end, end days, they moved the media way, way back.
		Remember that?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, if that sort of thing was going on, and I've also now heard admissions that the gas canisters that were tossed in were flammable as well and could have started fires.
		They're trying to say, well, we tossed them in much earlier than the fire, and while they could have caused a fire, they didn't, but they were not the primary cause of the fire.
		So all of a sudden, everything they said then is BS now.
		Seems that way.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, and everything is turned around and contorted and diluted.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, maybe it was a Hellfire missile that ends up in a fireball that was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God help us.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, colonels and generals at Fort Hood don't just say, hey, let's send an Apache helicopter fully armed with Hellfire Spitfire missiles, 122-millimeter rockets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's something that I, to this day, Joyce, do not understand.
		I watched the FBI briefings daily, as did so many Americans.
		And inevitably, the FBI spokesman, you know, knowing there were women, children in there, said, if necessary, we'll wait until hell freezes over, whatever it was.
		We won't go in violently.
		We won't end this violently.
		We will respond, but we will not end it violently.
		We will wait them out.
unidentified		And then something changed.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the stage had to be set to try and put the burden on them for having started their own fire.
		They had to set the stage that we're not going to do anything, so if anything happens here, it will have been the Branch Davidian.
		Well, you know, there were holes in the top of that church prior to the time of the fire.
		There were people inside there that actually saw, including Dick DeGuerin, the attorney.
		Now, you don't get holes inside that big unless they come from an helicopter, an attack helicopter such as that.
		So what we have here is lie upon lie upon lie.
		You can, you know, there can be a million lies, but there's only one truth.
		And I think that our government is going to face the most difficult time in its near future now.
		And we're not talking about people that should just be fired or slapped on the wrist for what they did.
		We're talking about a whole reevaluation of the people that are in power right now, not the government.
		We love this constitutional republic.
		But there's got to be a total reevaluation of the people in the power that they now have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joyce.
		Hold it right there.
		Well, did you digest what you just heard?
		Fully armed, heavily weighted down Apache helicopters with the ordinance just described, coming back with about half of what they left with.
unidentified		I wonder where it went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To serve and protect, huh?
		And then, I suppose, at times, to slaughter as well.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast A.F. Lead me this way.
unidentified		I can't survive.
		I can't save my life without your love.
		Oh, baby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, back we are and back with Joyce Raleigh once again.
unidentified		Joyce, sounds like she's on the phone with somebody else there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She is on the phone with somebody else there.
unidentified		Okay, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joyce.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, we caught you in the middle of a conversation.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a veteran just called me trying to get help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Well, we are going to provide contact information.
		So hang in there, everybody.
		In fact, why don't we do that right now?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, to contact us.
		The American Gulf War Veterans Association is P.O. Box 85 for sale.
		That's V as in Victor, E-R-S-A-I-L-L-E-S, Missouri, M-O, 65084.
		Phone number, you can leave a message, 1-800-231-7631.
		To order our documents, to order the videos.
		It is 877-485-3838.
		877-485-3838.
		And I just want to say to everybody, I wish I could answer everybody's phone call, but we work, we do this as a volunteer.
		So, you know, and we could help, we could certainly utilize your donations if you'd like to help the Vietnam Veteran Wives Association, which is a 501 C-17 nonprofit.
		But we do need to understand that we can't deal with everybody's problem because there are so many.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are so many.
		Joyce, there was also, the lady that you mentioned earlier that talked to Donna has a number she would like people to call for Vietnam-era veterans who have had their records disappear.
		Do you happen to have that number?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I can get it at the break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Good.
		I would like to do that.
		And I promised Donna that I would do that.
		In fact, I promised a I'm so sorry.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Dana Hughes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dana Hughes, that's right.
		Dana Hughes.
		I talked with her, and she said it would be of great assistance if people who had, quote, lost records, end quote, would come forward.
		Then they might be able to get somewhere.
		And there's a lot of people out there with lost records, you know, like the lost Waco records.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		There's hundreds of thousands of people.
		There's over 700,000 shot records missing from the Gulf War.
		So we've got a serious problem.
		If they can't contact Dana, they can contact me or email me at the website, GulfWarvets.com, and I can get the information to her.
		She's handling the Vietnam veteran era issues, and I'm handling more of the Gulf War.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much confidence do you put in the information that you just gave us tonight about the Apaches?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I put my complete confidence in it, Ardor.
		I would not have said it.
		And the reason I'm saying it is because of protection, and I want those people out there who are concerned about what we just said to know that there's no evidence at my home or at his home.
		And we came out with this in advance of the newspaper story because we want people to know that there is going to be protection for these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying this is going to break in Dallas?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Dallas Morning News.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dallas Morning News went today?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it will probably be next week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next week.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		As soon as the Powers that Be get finished with everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I hope it's, you know, it's one of those things you just hope and pray really aren't true because how do we all live with ourselves knowing we did this?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly right.
		And how do we live with ourselves knowing that at the time we could have made a stand or maybe we should have done something else?
		I think we're going to be looking at the issue of the Oklahoma City bombing.
		I think the Freeman issue.
		I believe, Art, honestly, that we've not been told the truth about anything.
		I really believe that.
		I think that there has been an agenda or there has been a facade on everything that's been presented to us.
		Because I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but after I came out with the GoFor information, my name was listed in information that went out to law enforcement authorities that I was a terrorist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you were a terrorist?
unidentified		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		The Southern Poverty Law Center provided in their information, I believe it's called Intelligence Report or the Intelligence Something or another, sent out to 7,000 law enforcement agencies, all of these people that had tattoos and rings in their nose and were potential white hate groups and all this kind of stuff, and they included my picture in there wearing a red, white, and blue jacket talking to Gulf War veterans.
		Now, if in this country you can be maligned and victimized and made to feel as though you are, or made other people to believe, like law enforcement, like the FBI agents that told me they had seen my picture, that I am some kind of terrorist because I am going around the country trying to tell the truth, then this country is in trouble because we are being maligned as being the hate mongers.
		We are being told we are the bad people.
		No, we are not.
		The people who will take and attack a church or will go in and possibly blow up a building.
		And I'm not saying that we know the truth about that yet, but I know there's a lot we don't know.
		By the way, did you know that Mr. Nichols has never even been given a sentence?
		Terry Nichols has never received a sentence in that case.
		Does that tell you something?
		Why weren't we told that?
		So there's so much information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I read something recently about that, something about there not being enough money to conduct another trial or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a little foggy on it, but there was some recent news about that.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's the prevailing information they want you to believe.
		I think there's a lot more.
		I think there was not enough evidence there.
		And I think that whole case is going to open up again.
		But that's neither here nor there right now.
		I am concerned about the so-called patriots, the freedom-oriented people, the people that have been researching these cases in the past, because anyone that got involved and stood on the side of Waco was named an enemy of the government.
		Ramsey Clark came forward.
		I mean, I was named right-wing until I had a nice conversation with Ramsey Clark, and then I thought, well, then I was named left-wing, and now I don't know, you know, it's not important who you are.
		The truth is the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People always want to classify you one way or the other based on what you say about something or another.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You can victimize them so you can dismiss their message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not going to be dismissed, and my message is not going to be dismissed, and we are going to continue through this.
		I was listed on the internet side as all kinds of things, and my husband was a known militia leader.
		My husband spells militia, M-I-L-I-S-H-A.
		I mean, he has a slingshot, you know.
		I mean, but we were maligned like this, and by the way, while we're on that subject, I think now we need to re-look at the whole militia issue.
		Those people were maligned, and I have a feeling, and by the way, did you know that McVeigh was never involved with a militia?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had heard, of course, in the press, they said he was, and they named the militias.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Well, they said he was.
		Did you know?
		I checked.
		I decided to find out for myself after I saw all these lies coming out, and I called the Militia of Montana.
		I forget his name, Trochman, John Trochman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And he told me that he attended one militia meeting and was thrown out because of his radical views.
		So, you know, what are we being told that is the truth?
		And this man, Trochman, I will tell you, he was the first man that ever called me in a group and said, what can we do for the veteran?
		I didn't know who he was.
		And then after the Oklahoma City bombing and I heard about militias, I was scared to death of the man and then never returned his phone call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've learned also, Joyce, that when you tread in areas that people don't want you to tread into, they attack you in the most vicious, vile manner possible.
		I've been going through this now myself for a couple of years.
		And that's how they dispense with you.
		They hang a moniker of some sort on you.
		In my case, something awful like a child molester or pornographer or something like that.
		They hang that, or they try to hang that moniker on you.
		And therefore, everything else you say is discredited in some way.
		Unless you have the assets and the ability to get to the truth and root it all out, find out where it came from, and bring it all to the light of day, you're doomed.
		And the average person without great assets does not have that ability.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you sink.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I cannot imagine the pain that you have gone through.
		I cannot imagine what it would take to fight this issue because when somebody labels you, all of a sudden, because they label you, they are the right one, they are correct, and you have to be the victim, and the burden of proof is on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And I would say at this point that the average person doesn't have 12 million, 20 million listeners, and they don't have the access to what you have the access to.
		And how sad it is, because I really, I again say, we have either a rogue government or an out-of-order government that needs to be brought back into line because what they have been doing is absolutely unconscionable.
		The very fact that these experiments have been going on, why are we not at their doorstep with broomsticks and pitchforks and saying, out of here?
		How dare you do this to even one person in the military?
		How dare you do this to one person at Mount Carmel?
		It is time we reevaluate everything and take for granted now that everything they have said is a lie.
		And we have to start all over from square one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I frequently Thought about all of this myself, and I too have become pretty cynical.
		And I think as you get older, you become more cynical.
		That's one possibility.
		The other is that there's an honest-to-God reason to become more cynical today, based on what we've been hearing from you tonight, from you in past years about the Gulf War illness.
		These are men who fought for our country, and we are turning our backs on them in a conspiracy.
		I mean, it's just, it's beyond all reason.
		And I tell you, Joyce, when I was younger, I'd have said BS and something stronger, and I would not have believed it.
		But I'm sorry to say the evidence is overwhelming.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		It is, and I wouldn't have believed it already until 1994.
		I didn't start to waken until 1994.
		And it was after the Oklahoma City bombing because I was one of those people that said something is wrong here.
		I lived down in that area, and I called to get the seismographic report.
		And I actually took it to Rice University and asked them to analyze it.
		And they said, well, whatever happened here, it was two of something, explosions, whatever.
		And by the way, my husband has all of the original clips from the television stations that show that there were two, three, and four bombs present at that time.
		Well, that's all vanished.
		So we need to go back and reevaluate all of these issues.
		Of course, my concern is the military people and those that are out there suffering in silence.
		And by the way, I thought very long and hard before discussing the issue of these parasites and these worms, because I know every Gulf War veteran is scared to death right now.
		But I had to say it for those that are affected, because if you are affected, you need to come forward.
		We need to find help for you, and it is not going to be within a VA or a DOD facility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the best ways for people to believe the unbelievable is to go to my website now, go down, scroll down to the guest area, find the name Joyce Riley.
		Under related info, you will now see a link that says U.S. Code Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1620A.
		Read it and weep.
		That's what I'd say, Joyce.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I am afraid that it is what we don't know right now that's even more pervasive.
		We know there are experiments going on of all types, of all kinds.
		The genetic experiments that are going on are beyond belief.
		And it is time that people come out of the labs, out of their research facilities, come forward, and let's get it out in the open as to what damage has been done to this population.
		Because we have a responsibility to our progeny, to our children, to our grandchildren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what happens to us, Joyce?
		We're in a comfort zone.
		Most Americans are.
		They have a job.
		They're struggling to earn a living, maintain whatever standard of living they have.
		They've all got family problems, just the way I do.
		They've all got various problems and things going on in their lives every day.
		And it's very hard for them to break out of that routine, to care enough, to pay attention enough, to get upset enough, to become an activist and actually do something about this.
		How do we break them out of this shell of indifference?
		And I'm not really criticizing them because I understand why they don't.
		I really, I do.
		It's so easy to let it go.
		So much horrible stuff is in the news every day.
		That to consider a slaughter at Waco, a blood on the hands of our government, to consider our own veterans who have fought for us, for our country, for our rights, such as they are, who are not cared for, they just can't think about it.
		Joyce, they've got lives ongoing.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And they are also braiding the rope that is going to hang them if they don't recognize the severity of this.
		If Waco doesn't do it or OKC or something, some issue does not wake them up, then all I can say to them is get out of my way.
		And my favorite word now, art, has become next.
		Because I am not going to try and convince people of these horrific things that are going on.
		If you don't believe me, that is your choice.
		Get out of my way.
		I will find the people that do.
		This Saturday, we're going to be at a Restore America rally with Senator Bob Smith, presidential candidate.
		And this is the kind of thing that's starting to happen in this country.
		It's to help salvage our founding principles.
		This Saturday in Columbus, Ohio, at the Ohio State House.
		Now, we're seeing things starting to develop like this.
		I want to see in every city, I want to see Operation Braveheart.
		I want to see people who are not afraid to go and picket like Doug Jones has been doing at the Houston VA for 50 days.
		He has been picketing and sleeping outside of the VA because they are allowing the Gulf War veterans to die.
		It is time we start getting visible because it is our country.
		And for those of you who say we need to take our country back, no, I never gave it up.
		I don't want to take it back.
		I want to restore it to the constitutional principles that it was founded on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's where I have a hard time, Joyce.
		For example, consider the plight of an Apache helicopter pilot loaded down with the ordinance that you described a little while ago.
		With orders to fire.
		Imagine that pilot knowing there are women and children in that compound, many, many of them.
		Actually putting his finger down on the pickle and firing into that compound, starting fires and killing women and children.
		Where would you find this pilot?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		We know, though, that they are given such perceived information as to these horrific people in there, that they probably have ground-to-air missiles, that they are whatever they want to tell them, that they are so into such a mindset.
		And besides, they want to be able to pull that trigger.
		That's what they have been training for.
		And that's why I am so afraid right now of Operation Urban Warrior, which is going right on in this United States as we speak.
		It happened down in Texas.
		It happened in Anniston, Alabama.
		The military is going in with real maneuvers, and they are combining with the military department and foreign troops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think they're training like this?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		To take over a civilian population.
		There's no doubt about it.
		I've seen documents on this out of the Operation Short of War, Conflict Short of War.
		We know what they're doing.
		It is supposed to be the cover story of drugs or terrorism or whatever.
		But it is literally martial law, and it is control of a civilian population.
		And if we give up our guns, then we have just opened the door to allow them to take over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, gun control is raging forth faster than ever.
		And every time there's another incident, they use that to spearhead yet another drive.
		And they are taking guns.
		No question about it.
		Well, listen, during the next hour, if it would be all right, I would very much like to open the phone lines and let people ask you questions.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that be all right?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that would be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody writes, does Joyce have any knowledge about the presence of Delta Force at the Waco Siege?
		If so, how much comment can she make?
		Well, you said there was Delta Force, didn't you?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Not my personal knowledge, but my source of statement is, yes, they were there.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And I have talked to a number of people in the bureaucracy that are involved with this in the investigation, and they have confirmed that to me also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the subpoenas are flying right now in Washington, and Waco, all of a sudden, is a front end center.
		What do you think happened, Joyce, to change everything?
		What happened?
		Any idea?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think that what has happened is there is an agenda now to get to the truth on a lot of issues.
		And because people are feeling the pressure of us taking names is that they want the truth out.
		I think they want to come forward and say, okay, here's what happened.
		Because I'll tell you what, we are taking names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joyce.
		Hold it right there.
		We're at the top of the hour right now.
		And we're going to pause.
		And when we come back, we're going to take phone calls for Joyce Riley.
		What about you?
		Are you now willing to believe this of your government?
		Would you believe that your government would arm Apache helicopters, send them in, expend half of the very, very lethal ordnance into that compound?
		You believe they would do that?
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		...dream of time.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		You have a lot more information if you've talked to the survivors.
		This information has been out there.
		It's not some big secret that all of a sudden some seal was broken and the information came out.
		It's been out there.
		And I think it is time that the media began to address the issues of those people that come forward that have information, such as, like I was saying with the Dallas Morning News, why haven't you dealt with other issues?
		It's not just this issue of Waco, the Gulf War Illness issue, which I will now put the Dallas Morning News on notice to say that they have said they will fully look at all the information that I present them on this issue.
		So we've got a lot of issues to be looked at in this country, not just these two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Sorry without hold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are old.
		Oh, that's right.
		I put you on.
		I'm sorry about that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
unidentified		Joyce?
		Yes.
		Are you familiar with parasitic flukes such as Leishmaniases and Schistosomiases?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Leishmaniases, I understand, will turn your skin black.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And it's endemic in the Persian Gulf, and the U.S. government Department of Defense says there are no living Gulf War veterans with it.
unidentified		They don't have any of those?
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Because they have drugs.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I'm not saying they don't have it.
unidentified		Oh.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying the Department of Defense denies that there are any living Gulf War veterans that have it, and that's a lie.
unidentified		Yeah, well, they can.
unidentified		There is a drug that will kill both of those.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		It is, but it often kills a person, too.
		Oh.
		And it's very, very difficult to take.
		Also, I will say that we're starting to get more and more reports of these issues, and I think that the Department of Defense is going to have a lot to explain.
unidentified		I also wanted to ask Art something.
unidentified		Art, do you remember right after the Oklahoma bombing, a man called you and said that there were bombs attached with military cords?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I recall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He just said a lot of things.
unidentified		Did you ever record his voice?
		So did the FBI ask for it?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look, there were a gazillion theories thrown out, almost as many as with the Kennedy assassination.
unidentified		But he said there were going to be more, and you kept telling him, oh, please don't do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I kept telling him, please don't do this.
unidentified		Yeah, he said that there was going to be more terrorist acts that he was part of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
		Yeah, well, you know, who knows what people say on a phone, on a talk show, sir.
		There's no way to know, and there's no way to trace.
		And so my answer to you is it just got left in a blizzard of calls and accusations and conspiracy theories.
		And eventually it gets so bad that if the truth were to walk up and hit you in the forehead, you wouldn't know it because of the noise level of all the various conspiracy theories.
		But here with Waco, at least we're dealing with something that apparently we can all understand.
		And that is munitions that were used that should not have been.
		A military that was used that should not have been.
		And in my opinion, this is my opinion.
		This is what I said at the time, and I've said ever since, and I say today was government-sanctioned murder.
		And my opinion of that has never changed.
		Maybe it will someday, but not this day.
		Joyce, I know that you have got, I want to have you get your information out.
		I know you've got to be somewhere early in the morning, so give us your contact info, please.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And I do want to brag on my webmaster, Gary Robinson, retired military Gulf War veteran, who does our website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Okay, our phone number, 1-800-231-7631.
		Now, to order, and this is only to order any of the documents or the videos, 1-877-485-3838.
		877-485-3838.
		To write to me, P.O. Box 85 Versal, Missouri, 65084.
		It is Gulfwarvets.com.
		If you would like to help us out with Operation Braveheart, it's Dana Hughes, P.O. Box 396, Republic, Washington, 99166.
		And I don't want any Gulf War veterans to give up, to feel frustrated.
		You have got Art Bell on your side, and I cannot tell you how much that means to us, Art, because I know that you'll continue to wage this war in behalf of the veterans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will, Joyce.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		I believe you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With my dying breath.
		Have a good morning, Joyce.
		Thank you so much.
		Try to get a little bit of sleep.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, folks, that's Joyce Brilly.
		Somewhere else we live in, huh?
		Okay, we're going to come back and do one hour of open lines.
		Anything that you would like to talk to, and that gentleman on hold, just stay right there.
		I'll come back to you in a moment.
		From the high desert, you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		Coming up, unscreened, anything goes, phone calls.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		618-8255, East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That song will eventually infect you completely.
		It'll be going through your mind 24 hours a day.
		It's good to be with you, everybody.
		We've got an hour of open lines directly ahead.
		Anything you want to talk about is Fair Game coming up next.
unidentified		Pornography.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who knew, after days of, After days of leaning in favor of an independent inquiry, the Justice Department announced Thursday that Reno had ordered an outside investigation.
		The White House FBI Director Lewis Free said congressional Democrats and Republicans had suggested Reno order an independent inquiry.
		President Clinton, quote, is deeply concerned that the Attorney General appears to have been misled and may have been lied to, end quote, about what went on at Waco.
		And so, where does that leave us?
		Well, I guess drifting slowly in the wind as the subpoenas fly.
		All right, open lines, directly ahead.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello, sir.
unidentified		This is Ed from Flankstaff Listening Q on Talk of Northern Arizona, AM600 KVNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		First of all, I'd like to say a big thank you to Joyce Riley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Second of all, I know a little bit of where she comes from, although I have only worked with a few veterans.
		I've worked with a number of returned Peace Corps volunteers.
		And in the early days, there were problems because of undiagnosed illnesses.
		And there's a catch-22 in terms of getting their benefits.
		The Department of Labor requires a diagnosis before they compensate or give medical care, and some volunteers were coming home with kind of exotic problems.
		But we handled that in a number of ways.
		First of all, we were able to identify microbiologists who had done studies back as far as World War II on the Baton death march and was able to provide a lot of clues about exotic things.
		And then sometimes with just a phone call, many times local American doctors wouldn't be acquainted with, say, problems coming out of South America.
		And then we got a hold of the GAO, a group of us volunteers who had been disabled out of Peace Corps.
		And I'm happy to say the GAO required the Peace Corps to conform to American hospital service standards.
		And that took five years.
		But we got that squared away.
		And we had to do a lot of things.
		We went out with yo-yos and stood as close as we could to bureaucrats and yo-yoed until they made decisions.
		And a lot of people...
		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how America moves.
unidentified		Yeah, and but, you know, it took a long time and a lot of effort for me, about 20 years.
		I'm very pleased to say that the Peace Corps was very responsive, went out of their way, and now has a first-rate medical service with a minimal amount of complaints.
		And, you know, if the Peace Corps can do that, I think the military should be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would think so, wouldn't you?
		The difference, of course, is in scale.
		If the military was suddenly responsible for treating thousands and thousands of veterans, even perhaps hundreds of thousands of veterans, who may have contracted something in the Gulf, then the stakes are not exactly what they are with respect to the Peace Corps scale-wise or monetary expenditure-wise.
		As you mentioned, sir, yourself, you mentioned the way it finally got done.
		It's political, it's money, it's connections, it's many things, right?
		But there is also the scale of offense that has been committed and what it's going to take to rectify that that you have to deal with.
		So imagine the amount of money and the amount of politics that would have to go on with respect to the Gulf War.
		Wildcard line, you're on air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, there are KOH 50,000 watts of power up in Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed so.
unidentified		I was able to get a hold of the manufacturer's report on the CS gas that was used in Waco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We fixed.
unidentified		Well, the report said that 1,384 gallons were pumped in there.
		They shipped down 27 drums.
		And what is interesting when I read the report is that a large part of it, better than half, the delivery agent is kerosene.
		And after a few hours, it breaks down to something that's not quite as flammable as acetone, but very flammable.
		And when it burns, it turns to cyanide gas.
		And this is in the old manufacturer's report, which I have a copy of.
		So after saturating that place with about 1,300 gallons of that stuff, I imagine it was probably a tinderbox waiting to go off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still don't understand why they didn't simply wait.
unidentified		Do you?
unidentified		Well, I was watching Nightline tonight, and the FBI had all kinds of monitors back in Washington, D.C., and they were monitoring everything that was going on, so I think there's going to be probably a lot more tapes come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure there will be.
		Thank you very much.
		Look, they had a policy of waiting, if necessary, until hell froze over.
		I'll never forget those words from the spokesman, the FBI's postal prison.
		They knew how many children were there, how many women.
		They knew all that.
		It did not have to end that way.
		You know it, and I know it.
		And soon the entire nation is going to know it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How you doing?
		This is Renee from California.
		Yes.
		Yeah, I want to talk to you a little bit about, you know, sometimes I wonder sometimes what's going on lately with the government.
		And every time, like, for instance, the Oklahoma bombing, right afterwards, did you notice that they had the terrorist bombing legislation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it's kind of weird that it just happens right afterwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it is.
unidentified		You can't get in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like with somebody shoots up a schoolyard, we have gun legislation.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And it's funny, if you read the Second Amendment, you know, the last part of it says that you can't infringe upon that amendment, but yet every single law then would have to be illegal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think if ultimately tested, sir, that a very great number of the laws that involve guns in the U.S. now constitutionally would be struck down.
		But you know what it takes to fight those laws?
		It takes money.
		It takes connections.
		It takes power.
		It takes politics.
		It takes all of the things that move America.
		As I told that caller, or that caller told me, that is what moves America.
		I have no doubt about it.
		Public interest, public pressure, money, politics, fear, all of those things.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, my God, I can't believe I actually got through.
unidentified		Can you hear me okay on the phone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can, sir, yes.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		Well, then it's a good microphone.
		You know, I had a couple of, I've been listening to you for about the past two years, and I did have a couple of theories about the progression of the deterioration of government over the years.
		I was at a high school sock, a junior high school sock hop when JFK got assassinated and had to make the announcement to a gym load of kids to go home.
		The president's been shot, and I couldn't figure out why.
		And I sat in front of the old Stilco, if you remember them, and just cried my eyes out and cried and cried.
		Something was wrong, because even though JFK did have his things going on, shall we say, he was the most honest president I think we had had in quite a while and was willing to tackle the forms of bureaucratic subdivisions, shall we say, on this government that did indeed represent a threat to our existence because we represented a threat to theirs.
		And I think one of the big lies that good old Billy boy has told is that he didn't inhale.
		I think he did inhale.
		I think his problem was that he exhaled.
		And, you know, as far as I'm concerned, the big drug companies and the medical people in this country know what the truth is, and they know that there are many alternative methods out there for treating people and controlling pain.
		But if we cut into that profit, that would eliminate their jobs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, thank you.
		I have two comments on that.
		Everybody says that, and I'm sure there are methods of treatment for various illnesses that are not FDA-approved.
		If I had a fatal illness, a fatal diagnosis, perhaps like Terrence McKenna, my friend Terrence, I would do exactly what Terrence is doing.
		And what he's doing is pursuing legitimate FDA-approved cutting-edge medical scientific aid, the gamma knife, that kind of thing, and then going to every alternative method of healing that I believe will work or has a chance of working.
		And I would do both.
		That's what Terrence is doing.
		And that opportunity is pretty much available to anybody in this country.
		You can seek various forms of treatment, whether or not they're approved.
		And if it's your life, you're going to do what you want, right?
		International Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Sarlin from Calgary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, Joyce Riley's discussion earlier, I've heard her quite a number of times and a very intelligent woman there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		It's unfortunate that they're now experimenting on their own, but I think these kind of conspiracies and cover-ups have been going on for an awful long time.
		And I go at all levels of government and especially in the secret agencies of government like the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, and in the banking industry and the media.
		And I think it's all connected.
		I think I believe in conspiracies because a conspiracy to me is really the unknown.
		It's what other people contrive in the back rooms of industry and banking to further their own individual ends and objectives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but you know, that is really what we all do, isn't it?
		We take actions and make decisions generally to further our ends, whatever they may be, good, bad, or ugly.
		We take steps to enhance our agenda, our position, whatever that may be.
		And that is what they do.
		Be sure of it.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bankers, politicians, people of power take steps to keep their power and to enhance their position.
		That's how it works, okay?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, going twice, gone.
		I might add, that doesn't always add up to conspiracy.
		Sometimes it adds up to human nature.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Jim from Kansas City, Kansas.
		Hi, Jim.
		Hi, I'm a Vietnam veteran from the Air Force.
		I spent one hitch in there and knows in avionics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		Yeah, quite a while ago, about 30 years.
		And 1970.
		I was at a meeting with Joyce Riley here just several weeks ago, about a month ago, I guess.
		It was over in Johnson County in Kansas here.
		And one thing she mentioned was that she didn't go to the Gulf, but she thinks she contracts Gulf War illness from the Anthrax vaccine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, either that or from treating Gulf War vets.
unidentified		Right.
		Which she did.
		There are many, not a huge amount, there are many who did not go to the Gulf, but did receive the vaccine who did have the Gulf War illness.
		And do you have antibodies in their blood from the adjuvants that were used in that?
		Adjuvants that were not licensed by the FDA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only problem is that seemingly to prove it to the satisfaction of the Veterans Administration, it has to be almost solid science.
		In other words, every case has to be the same.
		Otherwise, they say, oh, well, look at this.
		This is just a random problem.
unidentified		You're right.
		You're absolutely correct.
		I've read the GAO reports.
		I've sent off for those and made a lot of them.
		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the case they make.
unidentified		But the one thing that I think is important, when you can find little bits and pieces of information that are important, well, the Secretary of the Army, Caldera, had in a memo which has been put on the internet at Gulf War Vest, I believe.com, it says that the Secretary of the Army, Caldera, has linked the Gulf War illness to the anthrax vaccine, publicly.
		At least in that document's been made public.
		And so that's a pretty heavy statement there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		I don't know that I can verify it.
		And there is currently a big controversy.
		As you know, a number of service members have refused the anthrax vaccine shot to end up facing the UCMJ.
		In other words, they've disobeyed an order.
		Not an easy decision for any military member to make.
		Really not easy at all.
		It used to be.
		It used to be so cut and dry.
		It used to be so cut and dry.
		You were in the military, you did precisely what you were told.
		But on the other hand, you also had a firm belief that the U.S. government, which you worked for, had your best interest always in mind.
		Now, whether that attitude is prevalent today or not, I am not so sure.
		How about you?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello?
		I won't believe it.
		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		I've been trying to get a hold of you.
unidentified		The only one who'll listen to me this time of night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here you are.
unidentified		Oh, good.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies.
		Call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		Well, first of all, my dear, you cannot use that kind of language.
unidentified		Oh, I apologize.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what?
unidentified		I think that we should recycle the water a little better.
		Go flush our toilet into our water system, don't you think?
		I mean, it's just a waste of all of our natural energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that we should do what now?
unidentified		We should not flush our toilets into our water table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm all for that, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I think you'll find science behind leech fields, appropriate leech fields for the water table, is pretty solid, and the water that you would get would be just fine.
unidentified		Well, okay.
		Here's another one.
		How about a little bit of natural power, natural energy?
		Yes.
		Okay, well, you hook up like all those drains that are going down off the roof.
		Can't you hook up a little water wheel on those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the thought.
		I think you should amplify the thought a little bit.
		I don't know about drains turning wheels at the end of everybody's water spout on their house.
		However, to magnify what you said into a proper perspective, if we don't start moving toward alternative energy sources very quickly, and you really wouldn't believe how much power it takes to power your house, if we don't begin exploring and going into production with alternative energy,
		wind, solar, whatever, very quickly in 40 or 45 years, we'll be killing each other over gasoline, oil, fossil fuels.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you would have been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, turn your radio off.
unidentified		Yeah, working on here.
		All right.
		Okay.
		How are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I've been listening for a while.
unidentified		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what have you concluded?
unidentified		I've concluded to come up with some pretty interesting stuff.
		Go.
		The other thing, I was wondering when Dapper Hoaglund was going to be on again.
		Who?
		Dapper Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Richard Hoagland.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dapper Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I talked to him earlier today.
unidentified		Soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're waiting for some vital information to develop.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To answer your question.
unidentified		He was mentioning something about Leitzkalen, about Coral Castle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And something to do with how they put the castle together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was just wondering if he has passed that information along yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just to some of us.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You don't know when the next time he will mention it, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next time he's on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll press him on that, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably going to be a very, very good program, The Life of P.T. Barnum.
		You might want to catch that.
		On the international line or on air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hi, Art.
		It's Steve from Surrey, D.C. Hi, Steve.
		Kind of been in and out listening to the show tonight, but earlier you were talking about that thing that you saw in the sky and a guy from Vancouver.
		I'm just curious what colors it was changing to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me, it was flashing like an aircraft light.
		It was singular.
		There was only one.
		It was red, and I think I detected white.
		However, it remained stationary for a really protracted period of time in the east, and I could damn near make out form.
		And I had no idea what it was.
		It was pointed out to me by my wife, and I kind of blew it off as an aircraft or whatever.
		And then I had his call, and I went, hmm.
		We saw that too.
unidentified		Well, I didn't see it myself, but I know I saw something a little bit similar one time, and I called the reporting center in Seattle, and it turned out that they thought it was probably the mere space station, but also I know that the International Space Station sometimes is visible, and it...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's always going around.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I just want to say last night was one of the best shows I've listened to in a long time.
		It sure kept me on the edge of my seat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It kept me on the edge of my seat.
		I mean, I lived it with you.
		You lived it with me as it happened.
		And I still am not sure what to make out of what occurred last night.
		There are varying stories around, as usual.
		You know, a meteor, space junk, a Russian space booster.
		But now the Australians say they have seen one as well during daylight hours.
		That'd be a hell of a booster.
		Now, how do you see it during daylight hours in Australia?
		And then it makes that much of a trip around the globe and comes in from the north.
		Now, let's see, over the pole, I suppose.
		And then comes in over the north.
		But that's quite a trip.
		That's some re-entry.
		I don't know that I buy that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		I, too, saw that thing in the sky tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I'm calling from Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		My name's Debbie.
unidentified		Anyway, I was outside hanging some clothes on the clothesline, and I just happened to look to the east, and I saw that orange kind of thing, Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what we all saw.
unidentified		I don't know, but it was pretty weird.
		And at first I did think it was an airplane, too, but then it just sat there.
		And I'm going, no, that can't be right.
		So anyway, I just wanted to let you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		I didn't think a lot of it at the time.
		Again, my wife pointed it out, and I said, oh, yeah.
		Then I said, well, I think it's moving.
		But your eye does that.
		You can test that theory, by the way, by going out to look at Venus when it's low in the sky and when you're looking through quite a bit of atmosphere.
		If you stare at Venus long enough, it will appear to move up and down and left and right.
		Try it.
		Trust me.
		Just stare at it.
		It's a trick your eyes play on you.
		Wildcard line, you're on here, huh?
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Come on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I was wondering if you heard anything...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
		You can test that theory, by the way, by going out to look at Venus.
		When it's low in the sky, and when you're looking through quite a bit of atmosphere, if you stare at Venus long enough, it will appear to move up and down and left and right.
		Try it.
		Trust me.
		Just stare at it.
		It's a trick your eyes play on you.
		Wildcard line, you're on here.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I was wondering if you heard anything more about nuclear plants.
unidentified		I didn't get to listen when Gary North was on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In previous interviews, he has said that if they are not, he knows of none that are now compliant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they are not compliant by a certain date, they're going to have to shut down.
unidentified		Yeah, I believe it was June 30th or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		How about anything with the government, where we were supposed to go over and monitor Russia and Russia was supposed to come over and monitor us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a new story.
		Thank you, breaking tonight.
		And there does appear to be a discussion underway that would virtually put a Russian commander inside of, I guess, Cheyenne Mountain and an American equivalent commander with the Russian Rocket Forces Command Center so that nobody makes a mistake on New Year's Eve.
		We don't need those kinds of fireworks.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I'm calling from Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And we noticed the same type of thing in our skies here on Monday.
		There were quite a few of them, and they were very large, and they were stationary.
		I noticed them at 1 a.m. until dawn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Daybreak, yes.
		And then the next night, I looked for them, and they weren't there.
		And then I start walking back, and I looked west in your direction, and they were there.
		And they stayed stationary in the sky, and there seemed to be like four.
		The night before we had quite a few.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Let's think about this for a moment.
		Let's think about this for a moment.
		For an object, and I'm not a scientist, as you know, but for an object to be seen from where I am, for example, and as far north as Vancouver, and as far east as the Midwest, and to be seen simultaneously from all of those locations would require, you know, you could work that out, but it would require something in space.
		In other words, we would be looking at something, we would have to be looking at something in space.
		Anywhere within the atmosphere would be too low, in my opinion, to be seen from that varied kind of geographic location.
		So whatever it was, it would have had to have been in space.
		And if that were true, then based on the relative size, as I saw it, whatever it would be the really big.
		Wow, Carteline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Very quickly, I wanted to talk about an issue that is very, very important to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir?
unidentified		Tobacco.
		I'm disappointed that you haven't done this already.
		I would like for you to have, as a guest on your show, better yet two guests, and for four or five hours, talk about how secondhand smoke is not dangerous.
		Talk about how that it is possible to smoke for like 50 or 60 years and never get sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't talk about that.
unidentified		Of course not.
unidentified		In Japan, a large section of the large section of the population smokes, and they have a much, much lower rate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very much aware of that, yes.
		And what they call smoking-related deaths is another big, big issue.
		The number of people that they class as smoking-related.
		Yeah.
		Now, look, on the other hand, you and I both know it's probably not good for you.
unidentified		But it is, but I think that we could cut down a number of people getting sick.
		We could make it much, much lower than it is right now.
		Because one time I was listening to a radio show, and it was a talk show, and the guest was an author.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much rice and raw fish do you eat?
unidentified		None.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Well, that might be one big reason why the Japanese have a much lower cancer rate.
		It might be their diet.
		Had you thought of that?
unidentified		It may be, yeah, that's one thing I've thought of.
unidentified		But one time I was listening to a radio show, and the guest was an author of a book called Turning Back the Clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he said that by taking certain vitamins, a smoker could have the lungs of a non-smoker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've also heard that.
unidentified		And I'd like for you to, again, like have a guest on your show talking about how psychiatrism smoke isn't dangerous and talking about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll do it.
unidentified		If I find somebody appropriate to do it, I'll do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't need to push me.
		I don't care anymore.
		I will do whatever is interesting, and nobody ever tells you the side of the story.
		That's what the man was really saying, and he's right.
		He's absolutely correct.
		There is a lot you don't hear.
		You don't hear about people who smoke all their life and then die of a totally non-smoking-related death.
		I mean, how many of those are there?
		Why don't they give us numbers?
		Must be in the millions.
unidentified		We don't hear about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know, as a general rule, anything you overdo is not good for you.
		And then I'm sure that applies to smoking.
		And I just, I have a lot of argument with the figures they come up with and why they're doing it and the political correctness of a lot of it.
		By the way, if you're a smoker, it's like you can't live in California anymore.
		That's how bad it is.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Art, this is Brian in Phoenix.
		How are you doing?
		Okay.
		I was just wondering, do you ever get to any of the consumer electronics shows that they have there at the Vegas Adventure Center?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have been to them, yes.
unidentified		Doing very enjoyable, aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Cool.
		I just, I always wanted to ask you that because I go there every year.
		And maybe I'll run into you there one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could it be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would probably be in disguise, though.
unidentified		Oh, would you?
		Yeah, I probably would be.
		Well, just our prayers are out there for you and your family, and keep up the great show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's the one little price you pay is being recognized all the time, and I'm now recognized all the time.
unidentified		So, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		It's really strange.
		I am kind of an anomaly, really, I think, in the industry.
		I love doing my program, but I don't crave public attention.
		Hard as that may be for some of you to believe, I actually avoid it as much as I can.
		I don't know.
		Doing the program is one thing.
		Interaction with all of you here is one thing.
		And then being out in the public and being treated differently is something else altogether.
		And it's not really all that comfortable an experience for me.
		And so I avoid it.
		And I'm very Protective of my privacy off-air and very open with my life on air.
		So it seems like a contradiction, doesn't it?
		First time caller line?
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, how are we doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		This is Tim.
		I'm going across Nebraska.
		I'm all the way back to Ohio right now.
		Okay.
		Just wanted to comment that how they say they want an independent investigator for all this Waco stuff.
		I just want to make a nomination.
		I think you should do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should do it?
unidentified		Because you're about the only person out here who can tell the truth about everything and try to investigate it to the fullest extent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I'm the only person left who will do that, then it's all lost anyway.
unidentified		Well, unfortunately, let's hope not, but I feel that you're just the type of person that would be able to find the truth of what's going on for real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that, sir, but cynical as I may be, and I am cynical, I am best doing it what I'm doing.
		This is what I do.
		Now, we must have people willing to pursue the truth.
		You know, wherever the chips may fall, people who are willing to pursue the truth.
		And if we run out of a stock of those sorts of people, then it's all over anyway.
		So on the plus side, we are investigating.
		We are looking back into Waco now based on new evidence.
		So, you know, that's a hopeful side.
		I mean, try to look on the brighter side of things.
		We are examining ourselves again on a very crucial issue that a lot of people would rather have buried, remain buried.
		You still live in a country where this can happen.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing, Eric?
		Okay.
		This is Todd in Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I wish you'd get some more market here in Michigan because it's hard to chase you around the dial all night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is that what you do, chase me around the dial?
unidentified		Yep, as one station fades away, I go to another one, and then about 5 o'clock they all drop you, and I'm really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the show is over then.
unidentified		The show is over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Michigan.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that makes you in the Eastern time zone, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So no matter who you listen to, you never get the last hour.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, there's a price for living in Michigan.
unidentified		Yes, there's a price.
		I just want to shed a little light on the Waco thing and the Apache helicopters.
		Sure.
		They were using a lot of noise warfare towards these people.
		And most of the Apaches' ops are at night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tried to explain to that man.
unidentified		And they would be very easily hidden from all the other stuff going on, especially if they got Hueys flying around down low.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no question about it.
unidentified		So it's a very, you know, believable thing that they took off two, three, four miles, and the Delta Force was painting the picture on the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		You know?
unidentified		So, you know, there's a lot more to come to light than just the CS canister.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was trying to look on the bright side of things a little while ago, and the bright side of this is that at least they're opening it back up.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		I mean, if we lived in a country where mistakes are always buried and always simply go away, then we wouldn't be opening this back up again.
		So, you know, there's some reason to hope that there's still a democracy republic out there at work.
unidentified		I'm with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
		Yes, sir.
		I'm going to have that tattooed on my arm so we can get to see them.
		Turn your radio off.
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Well, okay.
		Well, you should sure sound a lot different.
		I don't hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I say.
unidentified		I'd like to get back to this Winkle thing, too.
		Yes.
		Here when Healy was subbing for you the last time around, he had Mr. John Rappaport, investigative reporter out of, I think it was Prisco.
		Right.
		And Ravenport was saying that he mentioned that Foster was, I think he said Foster was the point man in this whole situation, and that Ron Horiuchi was also down there at Waco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we may yet learn the other reasons for the Foster suicide question mark.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, who knows?
unidentified		And he also mentioned that his foster wife said he was very distraught, et cetera, and was writing up something about the Waco situation, which may lead as to why there was the taking of records from his office.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no argument for anything you just said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's as good a conclusion as anybody else's hat.
unidentified		Oh, and one other thing, too.
		I'd like to have your webman get something else up on your site.
		What is that?
		That's CFR 44.
		It's the emergency management and assistance thing of FEMA.
		John FEMA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll take a look for it.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, and again, I'm very cautious when it comes to consideration of application of the word conspiracy to everything the government does in terms of readiness.
		In other words, the government is responsible for anticipating and preparing for the safety of all of us.
		It's part of their job.
		And so they do preparation.
		FEMA does legitimate preparation.
		I know there are a lot of you who worry that that preparation is really for something else.
		And I might occasionally worry with you, but for the most part, I think a lot of it is very legit.
		The preparations they're making.
		They should be doing that.
		The continuity of government demands it.
		The public safety demands it.
		And so they do a lot of this kind of work that is interpreted by those who think in gray areas as very dark indeed.
		Maybe it is.
		Most of the Rockies, you're on the air.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Art Dump?
unidentified		Yes.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Hi, my name is Kathy, and I'm calling from Huntington Beach, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kathy.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		And this is concerning the Waco incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I wondered if there was any mention about radiation contamination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard anything about that.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason I asked is this is unrelated, but I trust BBC news more than I do the news that comes out of the United States.
unidentified		And they had mentioned this week about Gulf War and the Apache helicopters, which were used both with the British and the United States troops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you heard that on the BBC, huh?
unidentified		Exactly.
		And the missiles or, you know, the, what do I want to say, the ordinance?
		Exactly.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Contained a low-grade plutonium.
unidentified		And so the British soldiers, they felt that their Gulf War symptoms were caused by radiation poisoning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, you have talked my show to an end.
		It's over.
		I have to go.
		So where is it you said you were?
unidentified		I'm in Huntington Beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huntington Beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Huntington Beach, tell everybody good night.
joyce riley ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Good night, Huntington Beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and all the rest of you, too.
		I'm Art Bell.
		That's it from the high desert.

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