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Sept. 2, 1999 - Art Bell

01:52:01

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joyce Riley - Gulf War Syndrome and Waco Investigation

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	We're going to cover in-depth Waco tonight with some very shocking news.
	We're also going to talk about the Gulf War Syndrome.
	And I think we'll begin with an update on the Gulf War Syndrome and some associated news for you in a few moments.
	Listen.
	Joyce Riley is a registered nurse of 27 years and is presently spokesperson for the American Gulf War Veterans Association.
	For ten years, she has served as a consultant and expert witness for medical malpractice trials involving nursing negligence.
	She has served as a director of nursing in four institutions, as a heart transplant nurse, and a charge nurse of a federal prison infirmary.
	She now investigates the unwitting use of military and civilian populations for biological, chemical, and mind control experiments, By the Department of Defense and CIA.
	The most recent investigation sent her into the plight of the Gulf War veterans.
	Working in conjunction with Vietnam Veterans Wives Association, under the name of Project Braveheart, their goals are to expose the experiments, including Agent Orange exposure victims, obtain adequate compensation for the injured servicemen and women.
	We are going to talk about Waco in a bit, but first we're going to sort of update ourselves on the Gulf War Syndrome problem, whatever you want to call it.
	It's awful and it's real and it has touched me personally.
	Joyce, welcome.
	Thank you so much, Art.
	Good to have you back.
	Well, it is my pleasure, believe me.
	I tell you, Joyce, about, oh, I don't know, several months ago now, A very close friend, a very, very close friend of mine named John Pyre died unexpectedly, quickly.
	He had been in Vietnam.
	He had been exposed to Agent Orange, and I came on the program in quite a state of grief about the whole thing.
	Talk about, you know, about his dying, passing away.
	And the events with regard to his death are bizarre, unclear.
	The events surrounding his death and his exposure to Agent Orange are being suppressed.
	Hidden.
	There's evasion going on.
	People are not producing records.
	Records are turning up lost.
	Fortunately, his wife, who's a friend of mine, has kept those records and has now dispersed them to several safe geographic locations.
	But Joyce, as the surviving wife, as you know, she's going through hell.
	And she is representative of what a lot of wives are going through now and families, isn't she?
	There are thousands of women and thousands of families that go through this very same thing regardless of whether it was exposure to the atomic radiation or various experiments during the military or Agent Orange, Gulf War illness, whatever.
	And the plight of these people is so incredibly painful because the burden of proof is always on the person Uh, that is left to prove up the case.
	And I deal with these people all the time, and there's only so much sometimes that we can do for them.
	My heart goes out to them because they're left with a world that they don't understand, a lot of material they don't know anything about, and a system that is absolutely an adversarial system.
	The Behrens administration, the Department of Defense does everything it can to disprove, disqualify, and eliminate Uh, people from obtaining their, uh, just compensation or even truth as to why they died.
	And we have found out that there is collusion with the Veterans Administration and the service organizations to the point now where there have never been more than 5% claims ever given or granted in any one year to servicemen, regardless of how needy and, uh, how appropriate the claims were.
	This whole system needs to be overhauled because we have found fraud.
	We have found fraud.
	We have found fraud.
	And now we're dealing with Gulf War illness.
	And I'm personally now going to these facilities and having to see what these spouses go through.
	And I don't know how she does it.
	Because, I mean, it's a difficult system to me.
	And I don't have a personal involvement with a deceased husband.
	And my heart goes out to these women.
	And I think that it's time that we bring to light just how difficult the system is and how inappropriate.
	So that we can give them some kind of support and assistance.
	Um...
	Okay, here's a problem that Donna has run into.
	I know that you, at my behest, talked with Donna and referred her to somebody in Washington, correct?
	That's correct.
	And that person was who?
	I referred her to Dana Hughes of the Vietnam Veterans Wives out of Republic, Washington.
	This lady is a husband who is sick with Agent Orange and a son who is sick with Gulf War illness.
	And she knows the system inside and out and has been fighting it for a long time.
	And I will tell you, if anyone can get a claim through and make an impression upon the VA system, it is Dana Hughes.
	And that's why Dana and I have joined together with Operation Braveheart, because we feel like there are no veteran organizations out there that are really advocates for the veterans.
	And some of our research has turned up some interesting things, and I have not shared this with you, Art, but it's on our website.
	We have, on our website, Listen to the title of this.
	Classified.
	Confidential status one.
	Warning.
	Not for publication and release to the general public.
	The title is report to the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs on the association between the adverse health effects and exposure to Agent Orange.
	And it is classified.
	It comes out of the Department of Veterans Affairs and it was authored by Admiral Zimwalt in 1990.
	But it says warning on it, not for release to the public.
	It's on our website, I believe it's under Hot News.
	And this whole 57-page document can be downloaded by any Agent Orange sufferer, and you will see information in there that will actually make you so angry.
	To see that the lies have been going on for so long.
	And in here, Zimwalt admits to the truth about Agent Orange.
	So I would encourage people to go there, but it's only through this kind of research can we bring forward the information that the DOD and the VA have been having for a long time that could have made Donna's plight a whole lot easier.
	Well, again, Donna, of course, spoke with her.
	And Donna received documents from her.
	And Donna's comment about the documents was, Oh my God, what your husband was involved in, no wonder.
	That was her comment.
	Now, I'm saying this publicly because I want protection for Donna.
	She was warned that she may well get a visit in the middle of the night, her house might be broken into, and anybody considering that right now might well give it up because those documents are now spread out safely, number one.
	Number two, I'd raise holy hell because John was such a good friend of mine, And number three, they are now, of course, proceeding, but your friend was quite shocked at some of the documents that were produced, Joyce, and again, this is just my friend's surviving widow, and it's just one case, but it's typical, obviously, of what's going on all over the place.
	Runaround, deception.
	We're doing this to the people who have fought for their country and I...
	What has happened to our country, Joyce?
	That we're doing this to our own people?
	What's happened to us?
	Well, what I have found over the past four years in my investigation,
	Art, what came as a total shock to me, because I had no idea that your friend may have just very
	well have been involved in experiments by the U.S. government.
	government on its own military, because we found Senate Report 103-97, which is in its entirety on GulfWarVets.com.
	That's GulfWarVets, no caps, no faces, GulfWarVets.com.
	103-97 says, its first statement is, during the last 50 years, hundreds of thousands of our military have been used in experiments without their consent.
	So we have people dying of very bizarre diseases.
	They are dying before their time.
	If you go into a VA hospital, I'm sure you have, and you know that people look ten times sicker in there that are the same age as anybody in a regular hospital.
	Yes.
	They have been used.
	In fact, we have gotten the information on MKUltra, the use of BZ, the use of LSD on Vietnam veterans.
	While they were fighting, they gave them a dose of BZ or LSD to see what would happen.
	Then they had continuous flashbacks.
	And they were relegated to the emotionally ill category when they were, in fact, a result of an experiment.
	Well, I've had a number of people speak about MKUltra and inevitably, Joyce, you asked them, well, if they were doing that then and admit that now, then what do you suppose they're doing now?
	And most people say, oh, nothing.
	They really learned their lesson why they're not experimenting anymore.
	I think that's bull.
	Well, unfortunately, the Department of Defense did not have a religious experience in 1977 and stop these projects.
	They are going on.
	In fact, I got information from the Army War College dated 1994 that talks about the so-called behavior modification program that will have to be instituted to shape people's beliefs and change their minds.
	It talks about the takeover of a country prior to war, and it is entitled The Revolution in Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War, right out of the Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania.
	Alright Joyce, hold it right there, we're at the bottom of the hour, and again, my very good friend, deceased now, John Pyre, who was a retired FBI, and prior to that, was in Vietnam, fighting for his country, and doing a lot of very secret kinds of things.
	Very secret kinds of things.
	Died A really terrible death.
	And his body was wracked with tumors.
	And he definitely had been exposed to Agent Orange and had those records.
	And they're disappearing.
	And we're not going to let that happen.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
	We've been traveling far. We've been traveling far.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222. And the wildcard
	line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To recharge on the toll free international line, call
	your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	The Kingdom of Nye, indeed.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Or at least the majority of you, it's morning now.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest is Joyce Riley.
	And we're discussing one case right now, and really many, many, many, many cases.
	But this case involves my friend, now deceased, named John Pyre, who was a retired FBI in government service all of his life, was in Vietnam at a very, very, very high level.
	In fact, there are pictures with Westmoreland and other luminaries of the Vietnam era, and he had exposure to Agent Orange, and I can tell you some things about my friend John.
	He had skin rashes that you wouldn't believe.
	He had skin that would turn black and fall off.
	His body was wracked with tumors.
	He was in unimaginable shape when he actually died.
	Something that he kept well hidden from his family.
	However, he had established that he was suffering exposure from Agent Orange.
	Now a lot of records are disappearing but a lot of records still exist and I'm just not going to let this happen.
	His wife Donna is trying desperately now to even properly establish the cause of death and to all those associated with this case and others like it be assured that a lot of us are not going to let this go and we're not going to let you go and we're not going to let you Get away with it.
	You're not going to get away with it.
	So, uh, it's time to own up and take responsibility for what we have done to our own and take care of them.
	It's the very least we can do.
	We'll be back to Joyce Rowley in a moment.
	Back now to Joyce Rowley.
	And again, uh, with respect to, uh, My friend, deceased John Pyre, and his surviving wife, Donna.
	I'm not going to let go of this, Joyce, much as you're not going to let go of, I know, a lot of what you're working on.
	The question is, are we going to be able to break through?
	Are they going to finally own up?
	Are we going to finally begin to take care of our own?
	Or are we going to have to continue fighting our own damn government to do the right thing?
	I think that depends on the American people.
	I can only do so much, you can only do so much.
	But you don't hear anyone fighting for the veterans.
	I mean, you hear of these service organizations with their slick four-color magazines, but there is no real advocacy for veterans.
	They are left out there to just fend for themselves.
	And your friend, I mean, he has suffered in silence.
	He was one of those people that didn't want to complain about what happened to him, but it should not have happened to him in the first place.
	This is not a compensation issue.
	It is not a, gee, we're trying to get money for people issue.
	This is an issue of we have a government with a Declaration of Independence, a Bill of Rights, a Constitution, and a Nuremberg Code that says you do not experiment upon one American any time, any place.
	You don't experiment upon 500 blacks or 1,000 Eskimos.
	You don't do it, and it's been allowed.
	And President Clinton comes forward after the Tuskegee Institute surfaces, in which they allowed people to die to see how the experiment would work, and he apologizes on behalf of the American government.
	No!
	I want President Clinton to bring with him a list of indictments of the people that will spend the rest of their natural lives in prison for what they did.
	We have got to get this out of our heads that it is okay for the greater good to do these experiments.
	It is not.
	And so where we have come in this country is we have been sitting at a table, Art, where we have been braiding the rope that we are going to allow them to hang us with.
	And so we now are going to stand up and say, enough is enough.
	And that's why Rolling Thunder went to Washington, D.C., and that's why we're doing what we're doing.
	But, you know, we are no match for the Department of Defense's PR budget and the equipment that they have and the amount of time and energy and people they have.
	I've been doing this on my own.
	Individuals do this.
	Dana does it on her own also.
	We do this because we love the veterans, and because these veterans have been kicked to the side of the curb like a dead animal.
	And I will not allow it to happen, and thank God there are people like you that feel the way that you do, because if we do not stand up, it will continue to happen right into the Gulf War issue, and we are now losing thousands of our veterans that are dying, and no one even knows about it.
	And they're dying terrible deaths, Joyce.
	Horrific, painful deaths.
	On our website is a young man named Scott Seifkin.
	Scott had the rash like you were talking about, and VA said we must remove his skin.
	They removed his skin, the VA did, because they had a good experimental skin.
	Well, I've been a tissue transplant nurse, and you don't remove anyone's skin.
	And on the website is a picture of America's hero Scott Seifkin after the VA experimented upon him, removed his skin, and God bless him.
	May he rest in peace.
	He's no longer with us.
	And his son was born two weeks after he died.
	And I want to tell the world that his parents, Raleigh and Artie Seeskin, moved to Burzales, Missouri, where I live, this past week, to say, we need to fulfill a deathbed promise to our son, that we will try and save the rest of his brothers and sisters that served under the Constitution of this United States of America.
	and Raleigh and RDC are now here in Versailles, it's a small town of 2,000
	Yes.
	and we are going to get together with the American public and there's going to be a Mother's March now.
	But we have to do it because the experiment, and by the way, you recall we talked about Title 50, United States Code
	annotated.
	Yes.
	That allows the U.S. government to experiment on the American people.
	Yes.
	Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 15, Well, section 1520 was repealed in 1997.
	We were so excited, we were so happy.
	Well, guess what?
	What?
	Title 1520A even makes it more explicit that they can experiment upon us for any reason.
	That's 15A?
	1520A.
	1520A.
	Where do I get Keith to get that up on the site?
	Cornell Law.
	Cornell Law.
	And it's 1520A.
	Yes.
	And so they have now almost made it even easier to experiment by the DOD or one of their contractors.
	And we're in the same situation, only worse.
	So it is now up to us, because if they are allowed to experiment upon us without our consent, then we have given them carte blanche to use us.
	We have been sitting at the table, braiding the rope, and it is now time that we take off the shackles and say, how dare you?
	Just like Gulliver's Travels and the Lilliputians.
	We've allowed one strand at a time to tie us down.
	And this is how we're breaking those strands.
	And the American public, every one of you out there, if you are not doing something actively to fight this, then you are participating in it.
	There is, silence is consent.
	I mean, everything is being done, for example, with respect to Donna, so that all benefits will not be given, that they will not admit anything, records are disappearing, all of this kind of thing happening is just not The kind of thing that a nation that I grew up in is not the kind of thing we did.
	Past tense, huh?
	Not the kind of thing we did before.
	At least, I don't think we did, but... Anyway, listen, Joyce, we've got a lot of things to cover now.
	You've got something new.
	Some new variant of some horrid little parasite.
	What can you tell me about it?
	Okay, do we have just to the top of the hour to cover this?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	What we have now among Gulf War veterans is a parasite that is inflicting these Gulf War veterans in a tragic way.
	It comes out of the skin.
	Now, this is going to sound so horrific, but I must tell you, and I must preface it by saying, the biological experiments that were transacted during the Gulf War are now becoming full force.
	These Gulf War veterans, and I have now talked to four of them,
	are now having sores that come upon their skin.
	And out of that skin, it bleeds, and a worm eats its way through to the surface of the skin.
	When that happens, there is pain, there is biting pain, and then the worm usually stays alive for about an hour
	and then dies.
	These records are all missing from the VA.
	I have been to the VA personally myself to find records, and these records are all being sanitized.
	You're telling me that it begins as a skin problem?
	Yes.
	And then some kind of parasite... I mean, it sounds like something out of Alien or something.
	Well, I'm sorry... Some kind of parasite actually comes out?
	Yes.
	And lives for an hour?
	Yes.
	The worm comes out of the skin.
	Oh my God.
	It is called Biological Agent A. That is how the VA is referred to it.
	And you've got three reported cases of this?
	Four of them.
	Four now.
	Four now.
	And I understand that there may be a much higher rate of antibodies within the individuals that may create this problem in the future.
	And I say this because, and I'm going to get some pictures and video of it to have on our website.
	It's not there now.
	But this is the kind of thing these veterans are dealing with and the world knows nothing about it.
	Because we're busy with Seinfeld reruns while biological agents are being inflicted upon our troops and our military for whatever reason God only knows.
	And we have got to stop this.
	We have got to give these people help.
	We have got to get them some kind of assistance.
	Because can you imagine living?
	And I will tell you that the last young man that told me about this said that when he lays in bed at night he can feel them crawling throughout his skin.
	Imagine!
	Imagine!
	This is torture!
	He lives and feels them crawling.
	And then when they start to come out of the skin, they bite ferociously.
	They bleed.
	He had one that came out of his tongue.
	When it came out of his tongue, there was a tremendous amount of blood.
	And it was alive in his hand.
	He showed everyone at the table.
	And this is the kind of thing our military are having to deal with.
	And the VA says this doesn't exist.
	And the DOD says it doesn't exist.
	It is a lie.
	You say, I have personally been to the VA hospital and the medical records have been sanitized.
	Correct.
	Which we consider to be a federal offense called spoilage of record.
	And we're going to persevere in this arena and I'm glad that you are putting people on notice to protect these people.
	And putting people on notice that these records are going to be requested.
	They are going to be obtained.
	I wish I could do it for everybody.
	You know, John was in my life, intricately in my life.
	He was a brilliant man.
	He did nothing but loyal service for his country in so many ways as an FBI agent.
	High up in the FBI, as a matter of fact, after his service in the military in Vietnam.
	And, you know, To kick his widow in the teeth like this totally sucks, and it's not something that my country does.
	It just isn't, and I can't stand by.
	Well, and for every veteran out there, we are here for you.
	We want you to know that there are people that do care.
	Art cares, we care, and we will force this issue because we have a government that is out of control that would use its people for biological experimentation, for gene maneuvering.
	It's unbelievable the kinds of things Item on the Cornell Law site, I'm going to skip around here a little bit, 1528.
	In what way does it differ from the old one that they got rid of when we exposed it?
	In what ways does it make it easier to experiment on the population?
	Basically, it says for anything to do with research, anything to do with agriculture, anything to do with medical experiments, it just gives carte blanche.
	It just gives several categories as a reason that you can do it.
	Um, it is just, it's more open, if you will.
	Uh, the reporting is not as extensive, uh, as I recall.
	I don't have it in front of me.
	But this is just an, an example of the blatancy of what is going on.
	And we sent two people from each state to the Senate and thought they would take care of us.
	And this was enacted in 1997.
	We need to get every name that voted for this art.
	as well as in 1977 when it was first voted into place and find out who the people are that's the traitors to this
	country and have made the American public its enemy.
	What in heaven's name could be given to people that would cause
	parasites to begin to live within them and then uh I suppose they're literally eating them alive
	that's what parasites do and then actually exit their skin my god uh
	What kind of experiment would this be?
	I don't know.
	I have no idea what kind of experiment it can be.
	But we know there are all kinds of experiments now that are passing the species barrier.
	There's just so many.
	I don't know the motivation for this.
	But I will say that this is a horrendous life for these people to live.
	Because first of all, nobody believes them.
	Secondly, they are placed into a category of wanting to isolate themselves.
	They're frightened.
	They don't know if it's transferable or not.
	We don't know.
	And then to have the VA completely eliminate all records and treat them as if they're crazy, that's not what people joined to serve this country for.
	And so now we need to bring these people out of the background and let them know that it's okay to come forward.
	We want to help you.
	By the way, we did a video called, Are You a Government Guinea Pig?
	And we did this video on the American Gulf War Veterans Association to help people see the number of experiments.
	We had 12,000 people at Keesler Air Force Base that were involved in the experiment at one time.
	You know, this has got to stop.
	And, by the way, the website is gulfwarvets.com, and the number to get the video is 877-485-3838.
	That's 877-485-3838.
	a lot of people choice simply are not going to believe us
	They listen to what I said about my friend John.
	They listen to what you said about this new parasite thing, and they're gonna go baloney.
	It's not true.
	It can't be true.
	Our country cannot have done this to its own.
	Well, I wish it wasn't true, but I'm sorry it is.
	And we will have videos.
	We will have documented evidence to prove that it is real.
	Because we're going to have to do that because the burden of proof herein, again, is on the victim.
	The burden of proof is on the military person who's been inflicted with this dastardly biological experiment to have to come forward and say, what is wrong with me?
	We're going to get to that in a moment.
	I want to just cover one more thing with you very quickly.
	You might find this curious.
	I did.
	I did an episode of Millennium.
	You know that TV show, Millennium?
	regarding Waco art has never been released anywhere is going to...
	I know, we're going to get to that in a moment. I want to just cover one more thing with you very quickly.
	You might find this curious, I did.
	I did an episode of Millennium.
	You know that TV show Millennium?
	Correct.
	And when they first sent me the script, it was a... the story, the episode that I happened to be in
	was about a Gulf War veteran.
	I don't know whether you happened to catch that particular episode or not.
	I've gotten several reports from it.
	Yes, well, he was holding somebody hostage, trying to get help for what had happened to him.
	And in the original script that was sent to me, guess what they called the illness?
	Microplasma incognitus.
	You're kidding me.
	Oh, I wouldn't kid you, Joyce, no.
	And then, um, when we got to the second or third script prior to, uh, shooting the episode, they changed the name to something else.
	Was this a government script?
	No, no.
	Are you sure?
	No, yeah, I'm... Now, am I sure?
	That the change did not occur courtesy of the government, or because there was some sort of pressure, legal or otherwise, I couldn't possibly tell you.
	I can just tell you, in the early scripts, they called it microplasma incognitus.
	And do you know, Art, that we have actually obtained a patent now for this microplasma?
	No, I had no idea.
	In the mail, after being on your show, I want you to know that there are a lot of people out there that are providing us this documentation in a brown manila envelope.
	After we discussed the fact that I am positive for this mycoplasma, I was tested at the MD Anderson Cancer Center, 55% of the Gulf War veterans are now positive, I received the patent for the mycoplasma incognita.
	And I'll be darned if it didn't just make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, because I saw right there, and it's on our website, it's on our website under mycoplasma, Uh, gulfwarvets.com.
	Art, there was a patent that was filed in 1991, and the inventor is listed as Dr. Shai Ching-Lo, who just now happens to be the primary medical investigator on the Gulf War illness.
	And it was paid for by the Air Force Institute of Pathology.
	I'll be damned.
	It is collusion.
	I mean, this is just genocide of our military.
	And you read those 87 pages.
	The first page is on our website.
	You have to go to the patent site to see the other 86.
	It is damning.
	It is horrific.
	But you will see the Gulf War illness there on the mycoplasma.
	Now, how did Millennium know that?
	I have no idea, Joyce.
	I have no idea.
	Hold on.
	But believe me, they knew it.
	I've got the original script to prove it.
	And it was changed by the time we did the shooting of that episode, which was, by the way, a very good episode.
	And you can probably still catch it in rerun.
	When we come back, we're going to talk about a similar thing.
	Waco.
	The government doing unto its own.
	Stay right there.
	Listen to the wind blow, watch the sun rise.
	Underneath the shadows, there's a girl, there you lie.
	And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
	I can't feel a thing, this pain, this world's never a place to drown.
	And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
	I can't feel a thing, this pain, this world's never a place to drown.
	www.mooji.org www.mooji.org
	So that's a special set.
	I'm glad you're here.
	To rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
	1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line
	at 1-775-727-1295. To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator
	and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Absolutely.
	Alright, back now to Joyce Riley.
	Joyce, I have all kinds of information breaking about Waco.
	Just all kinds.
	I know you have New, as yet unheard by anybody, information about Waco.
	What can you tell us?
	Well, let me preface this by saying the purpose for this person coming forward with the information was that he is a sick Gulf War veteran.
	And we had a long discussion about the secrets of the Gulf War illness and the cover-up involved there.
	And I said, just like Waco, there needs to be the exposure of the truth about Waco.
	And he said, I know about Waco.
	And I said, how do you know about Waco?
	And he said, I know more than I wish I knew.
	I was stationed at Fort Hood, and we were the unit that provided the Apache attack helicopters.
	You can imagine how startled I was to hear that there were Apache attack helicopters, because an Apache is not even armed in the United States.
	It's never armed because it is nothing but a helicopter for war.
	It's, uh... An Apache actually, um...
	It was probably the most efficient killing machine in the Gulf War.
	So efficient that the images were hidden from the American people.
	The Apache is an incredible war machine.
	People have no idea how devastating the firepower from that helicopter can be.
	Oh, it is.
	It looks like a praying mantis.
	It is the helicopter that has the wheels on it.
	And if you were to ever see one, uh, it is just, it's, it's very formidable.
	And in talking with this Gulf War veteran, and part of the reason that I'm saying this today is because of his, for his protection, because the Texas Rangers have become involved in this since I talked with you, Art.
	So I'm not at liberty to identify some of the things that I was going to say, but I did get a phone call from Dick DeGaran today, which is the attorney for the Branch Davidians.
	And I can assure you that this information that he gave coincides with what he already knew and speculated.
	But let me just say that this Gulf War veteran, after we talked about this, I said, you know, you have a responsibility to come forward because if we want people to tell the truth about Gulf War illness, if we want the people to come out of the Pentagon and out of the corners and the back alleys and admit to what has gone on there, We're going to have to tell what we know.
	So he has come forward.
	He is a destitute, if you will, sick Gulf War veteran who has no purpose in doing this other than the world needs to know the truth.
	And it is time that we quit harboring these secrets under the name of military adventure or military action.
	What he told me is that while he was stationed at Fort Hood at the F-227 Aviation Apache Attack Squadron, That they armed the Apache helicopters to go in to Waco.
	They armed them?
	They armed them.
	Now, understanding that if what we say is true here today, this is the most devastating information to come across, because this puts the liability and the accountability all the way up to the President for arming a helicopter for a war situation within the United States.
	Basically violating the Posse Comitatus Act.
	Absolutely.
	So, when he described this operation, I asked him what they armed the helicopters with.
	Good.
	And what did he say?
	He said they armed them, there were 20 helicopters that took turns going back and forth between Fort Hood and Waco, which is a 5-minute flight or a 20-minute drive, 30-minute drive.
	They were supported by the 3rd Armored Division.
	They armed these helicopters with eight Hellfire missiles.
	Which, to the person that may not know a Hellfire, it can go through an M1 tank and it explodes into a fireball.
	There was a belly gun with an M60 armor-piercing 20mm cannon.
	The round pod contained 50 on each side Air-to-ground 122mm rockets.
	There were also air-to-ground 2-4 Sidewinder missiles loaded on each helicopter.
	The Sidewinder missiles are the ones that are on the wings of the F-16.
	There were two Apaches at all times at Waco.
	There were eight, uh, there were Blackhawk helicopters, two to four of those, with eight per, eight individuals per Blackhawk, and there were Humvees that were there.
	He also said there were Delta Forces.
	He does not want to say the unit or where they came from, however they were present there, and he did talk with them.
	Delta Forces?
	Correct.
	So there's confirmation on the Delta Forces.
	Now, the critical part of this is we have weapons being deployed that are only used for a war situation, and by the way, when they were used at Fort Hood in the training maneuvers, he said they do not even use these weapons.
	They have a training area outside of Fort Hood, and only the red-colored weapons can be used, which are the half-strength weapons.
	He said never.
	I asked him why did they think they were going into Mount Carmel.
	And he said they had been told this was a very hostile situation, they were heavily
	armed and it was a cult.
	Now for anyone out there who does not understand, I want to clear the air with respect to David
	Koresh.
	I have talked with people in Waco, I have worked with attorneys there and I can assure
	you there was no legal search warrant, there was no child exploitation going on there.
	This was a whole different situation than we were told.
	So it is all perception media that we received.
	Well I know the psychiatrists that examine the children.
	That did come out, Joyce, said they found them to be well-adjusted.
	That's my recollection.
	Now, that's a long time ago, but that's what I recall.
	That's right.
	And I also, my husband, who was doing a talk show for WATR in Waterbury, Connecticut, did an interview with Clive Doyle, who is one of the individuals who escaped from Mount Carmel.
	Joyce, I once worked at WATR.
	You're kidding me.
	No, I'm not.
	Unbelievable, my goodness.
	Well, two famous people, my husband and you then.
	Well, I will say that Clive Doyle has said much of what I have heard here from this individual, because this changes the whole perspective of things, and literally this radio show tonight, because this information will be coming out in the Dallas Morning News.
	Well, there's a little more, Joyce, and I don't know whether you can comment on this or not.
	You told me very descriptively what the Apaches were armed with.
	What did they come back with?
	And that is the critical issue.
	I asked him what happened at Mount Carmel the day of the fire.
	And he said, the Apaches fired.
	They fired upon something.
	And I asked him if they had fired upon and missed Mount Carmel or fired out into a field, would there have been a hole?
	And he said there would have been a huge, huge hole.
	And everyone would have known about it.
	I asked him, How they knew that they fired upon Mount Carmel, and of course he talked with the pilots, and he has named all the individuals.
	Then he said, we know they fired because half of the weaponry was missing.
	Half of the ordnance was missing?
	That's correct.
	Half of those Hellfire missiles were missing.
	God.
	And those are the ones that explode into a fireball.
	So this information obviously is now going to go to the forefront of the investigation.
	And I can only say that I am grateful that he has come forward.
	I hope he has the strength to continue on this.
	And I know this is not going to be easy for him as sick as he is also.
	And I just commend him because this is the only way if we band together as Americans to help each other.
	Can the truth come out?
	And there's a lot of truth out there and there's a lot of people that have information that they can provide us.
	Apparently so.
	Listen, let me read to you what Matt Drudge wrote tonight and see if this resonates with you.
	Matt wrote, a federal judge wants all Waco evidence, threatens government with contempt.
	According to Friday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution, U.S.
	District Judge Walter Smith, Jr.
	has ordered the federal government to turn over all evidence relating to the Branch Davidian siege at Waco by the end of the month or face a contempt of court citation.
	The Journal-Constitution's Mark England and Tommy Witherspoon are reporting that Judge Smith has dismissed Justice's strongly worded 19-page motion in response to his original August 9th order As an, quote, unwarranted and substantial burden, end quote, justice argued that Judge Smith's original request for all the evidence was too demanding.
	Smith wrote, quote, the court finds this argument somewhat disingenuous since the government has been in possession of this material for six and one half years and has been aware since 1996 when the civil suits were originally filed that this material could discovery and quote
	it continues quote additionally would have thought that the vast majority of the material
	now sought in this civil litigation
	would have already been compiled as a result of the various congressional hearings held over
	the branch to be in matter and quote
	smith is that preside over the branch to be in wrongful death
	civil lawsuits scheduled to begin in late october
	here's a judge prepared to hold
	uh... the u s government in contempt
	well i i'm not i'm not threatened by that and i'm not and i'm sure that
	they are not threatened either
	You know, the idea is that we have lost human lives.
	Well, they ought to be threatened.
	We had a president, whatever you think of him, good, bad, or ugly, Uh, who held some courts in contempt and fired some special prosecutors.
	And it took a while, Joyce.
	But in the end, by God, they pried the evidence out.
	And so they better be concerned, because the judicial branch of our government is not to be ignored.
	They can't hold... I hold them in contempt.
	I hold our government in contempt.
	Well, I think every person does.
	But I mean, for instance, they have just now announced that perhaps Mr. Rudman, Senator Rudman, will now be listed as the Chief of the Investigating Committee on Waco.
	Well, he's the one that just headed up the Gulf War Investigating Committee and found nobody sick and there's no problem.
	We're now all of a sudden hearing, Joyce, that the Attorney General, who had just come in in the middle of this mess in Waco, may not, they say, have been told everything.
	You've been hearing about that?
	Oh, absolutely.
	You may not have been told everything.
	But, Art, how many people do you think know when an Apache helicopter, 20 Apache helicopters, are armed and are circling over a church?
	How many people do you think know about this?
	Do you think the Attorney General does?
	Absolutely she does.
	Ought to.
	Certainly ought to.
	Now, it was kind of hard to tell because, as you recall, during the end, uh... and a is they move the media way way back
	all of them if that sort of thing was going on and and i've also now
	heard admissions that of the gas canisters that were tossed in
	a flammable as well and and could have started fires there They're trying to say, well, we tossed them in much earlier than the fire, and while they could have caused a fire, they didn't.
	They were not the primary cause of the fire.
	So all of a sudden, everything they said then is BS now.
	Seems that way.
	Well, everything is turned around and contorted and diluted.
	I mean, maybe it was a Hellfire missile that ends up in a fireball.
	Maybe it was.
	Maybe it was.
	God help us.
	But you know, colonels and generals at Fort Hood don't just say, hey, let's send an Apache helicopter fully armed with Hellfire Spitfire missiles, 122mm rockets.
	Here's something that I, to this day, Joyce, do not understand.
	I watched the FBI briefings daily, as did so many Americans.
	And inevitably, the FBI spokesman, you know, knowing there were women, children in there, said, if necessary, we'll wait until hell freezes over, whatever it was.
	We won't go in violently.
	We won't end this violently.
	We will respond, but we will not end it violently.
	We will wait them out.
	And then, something changed.
	Well, the stage had to be set to try and put the burden on them for having started their own fire.
	They had to set the stage that we're not going to do anything, so if anything happens here, it will have been the Branch Davidians.
	Well, you know, there were holes in the top of that church.
	I know.
	Prior to the time of the fire.
	There were people inside there that actually saw, including Dick DeGaran, the attorney.
	Now, you don't get holes inside that big unless they come from an attack helicopter such as that.
	So what we have here is lie upon lie upon lie.
	There can be a million lies, but there's only one truth.
	And I think that our government is going to face the most We're not talking about people that should just be fired or slapped on the wrist for what they did.
	We're talking about a whole re-evaluation of the people that are in power right now, not the government.
	We love this constitutional republic, but there's got to be a total re-evaluation of the people and the power that they now have.
	All right, Joyce.
	Hold it right there.
	Well, did you digest what you just heard?
	A fully armed, a heavily weighted down Apache helicopters.
	With the ordinance just described coming back with about half of what they left with.
	I wonder where it went.
	To serve and protect, huh?
	And then I suppose at times to slaughter as well.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Don't leave me this way.
	I can't survive, I can't save the lives without your love.
	Oh baby.
	Okay, back we are and back with Joyce Rowley once again.
	Joyce?
	Sounds like she's on the phone with somebody else there.
	She is on the phone with somebody else there.
	Okay, bye.
	Hi Joyce.
	Hello there.
	Hi, we caught you in the middle of a conversation.
	Yeah, a veteran just called me trying to get help.
	I see.
	Well, we are going to provide contact information, so hang in there everybody.
	In fact, why don't we do that right now?
	Okay, to contact us, the American Gulf War Veterans Association is PO Box 85 for sale.
	That's V as in Victor, E-R-S-A-I-L-L-E-S, Missouri, M-O-6-5-0-8-4.
	Phone number you can leave a message 1-800-231-7631 to order our documents, to order the videos.
	It is 877-485-3838.
	877-485-3838.
	And I just want to say to everybody, I wish I could answer everybody's phone call, but
	we work, we do this as a volunteer.
	So, you know, and we could help, we could certainly utilize your donations if you'd
	like to help the Vietnam Veteran Wives Association, which is a 501c3c17 nonprofit.
	We do need to understand that we can't deal with everybody's problem because there are so many
	There are so many.
	Joyce, there was also The lady that you mentioned earlier that talked to Donna has a number She would like people to call for Vietnam era veterans veterans who have had their records disappear
	Uh, do you happen to have that number?
	Uh, I can get it at the break.
	Alright, good.
	Good, I would like to do that, uh, and I promised, uh, Donna, uh, that I would do that.
	In fact, I promised, um, what was her name again?
	I'm so sorry.
	Dana Hughes.
	Dana Hughes, that's right.
	Dana Hughes.
	I talked with her, and she said it would be of great assistance if people who had, quote, lost records, uh, end quote, um, would, uh, would come forward.
	Then they might be able to get somewhere, and there's a lot of people out there with lost records, you know, like the lost Waco records.
	There's hundreds of thousands of people.
	There's over 700,000 shot records missing from the Gulf War.
	Yep.
	So we've got a serious problem.
	If they can't contact Dana, they can contact me or email me at the website, gulfwarvets.com, and I can get the information to her.
	She's handling the Vietnam veteran era issues, and I'm handling more of the Gulf War.
	I see.
	How much confidence do you put in the information that you just gave us tonight about the Apaches?
	I put my complete confidence in it, Art, or I would not have said it.
	And the reason I'm saying it is because of protection, and I want those people out there who are concerned about what we just said to know that there's no evidence at my home or at his home.
	And we came We're out with this in advance of the newspaper story because we want people to know that there is going to be protection for these people.
	And you're saying this is going to break in Dallas?
	Dallas Morning News, that's correct.
	In the Dallas Morning News, when?
	Today?
	No, no, it will probably be next week.
	Next week.
	As soon as the powers that be get finished with everything.
	God, I hope it's, you know, it's one of those things you just hope and pray really aren't true because How do we all live with ourselves knowing we did this?
	Well, that's exactly right.
	And how do we live with ourselves knowing that at the time we could have made a stand or maybe we should have done something else?
	I think we're going to be looking at the issue of the Oklahoma City bombing.
	I think the Freeman issue.
	I believe, Art, honestly, that we've not been told the truth about anything.
	I really believe that.
	I think that there has been an agenda or there has been a facade on everything that's been presented to us.
	Because I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but after I came out with the Gulf War information, my name was listed in information that went out to law enforcement authorities that I was a terrorist.
	That you were a terrorist?
	Yes.
	The Southern Poverty Law Center provided in their information, I believe it's called the intelligence report or the intelligence something or another, sent out to 7,000 law enforcement agencies all of these people that had tattoos and rings in their nose and were potential white hate groups and all this kind of stuff and they included my picture in there wearing a red white and blue jacket talking to Gulf War veterans.
	Now if in this country You can be maligned and victimized and made to feel as though you are, or made other people to believe, like law enforcement, like the FBI agents that told me they had seen my picture, that I am some kind of terrorist because I am going around the country trying to tell the truth.
	And this country is in trouble because we are being maligned as being the hate mongers.
	We are being told we are the bad people.
	No, we are not.
	The people who will take and attack a church, Or we'll go in and possibly blow up a building.
	And I'm not saying that we know the truth about that yet, but I know there's a lot we don't know.
	By the way, did you know that Mr. Nichols has never even been given a sentence?
	Terry Nichols has never received a sentence in that case.
	Does that tell you something?
	Why weren't we told that?
	I read something recently about that.
	Something about there not being enough money To conduct another trial or something like that.
	I'm a little foggy on it, but there was some recent news about that.
	Well, I think that's the prevailing information they want you to believe.
	I think there's a lot more.
	I think there was not enough evidence there.
	And I think that whole case is going to open up again.
	But that's neither here nor there right now.
	I am concerned about the so-called patriots, the freedom-oriented people, the people that have been researching these cases in the past, because anyone that got involved and stood on the side of Waco was named an enemy of the government.
	Ramsey Clark came forward.
	I mean, I was named right-wing until I had a nice conversation with Ramsey Clark, and then I was named left-wing, and now I don't know.
	You know, it's not important who you are.
	The truth is the truth.
	And people always want to classify you one way or the other based on what you say about something or another.
	So that you can victimize them.
	I'm not going to be dismissed, and my message is not going to be dismissed, and we are going to continue through this.
	I was listed on the internet site as all kinds of things.
	My husband was a known militia leader.
	My husband spells militia, M-I-L-I-S-H-A.
	I mean, he has a slingshot, you know.
	I mean, but we were maligned like this, and by the way, while we're on that subject, I think now we need to re-look at the whole militia issue.
	Those people were maligned, and I have a feeling, and by the way, did you know that McVeigh was never involved with the militia?
	No, I did not know.
	I had heard, of course, in the press, they said he was, and they named the militias.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, they said he was.
	Did you know?
	I checked.
	I decided to find out for myself after I saw all these lies coming out, and I called the militia of Montana.
	I forget his name.
	Trockman.
	John Trockman.
	That's correct, yes.
	And he told me that he attended one militia meeting and was thrown out because of his radical views.
	So, you know, what are we being told that is the truth?
	And this man, Trachman, I will tell you, he was the first man that ever called me
	in a group and said, what can we do for the veterans?
	I didn't know who he was.
	And then after the Oklahoma City bombing and I heard about militias,
	I was scared to death of the man and then never returned his phone call.
	Well, I've learned also, Joyce, that when you tread into areas that people don't want you to tread into,
	they attack you in the most vicious, vile manner possible.
	I've been going through this now myself for a couple of years and That's how they dispense with you.
	They hang a moniker of some sort on you in my case something awful like a child molester or pornographer something like that they hang that or they try to hang that moniker on you and therefore everything else you say is discredited in some way unless you have the assets and And the ability to get to the truth and root it all out, find out where it came from and bring it all to the light of day.
	You're doomed.
	And the average person without great assets does not have that ability.
	You're exactly right.
	And so you think.
	That's right.
	I cannot imagine the pain that you have gone through.
	I cannot imagine what it would take to fight this issue.
	because when somebody labels you all of a sudden, because they label you, they are the right one,
	they are correct, and you have to be the victim and the burden of proof is on you.
	And I would say at this point that the average person doesn't have 12 million, 20 million listeners,
	and they don't have the access to what you have the access to.
	And how sad it is, because I really, I again say, we have either a rogue government
	or an out of order government that needs to be brought back into line
	because what they have been doing is absolutely unconscionable.
	The very fact that these experiments have been going on, why are we not at their doorstep with broomsticks
	and pitchforks and saying, out of here, how dare you do this to even one person in the military?
	How dare you do this to one person at Mount Carmel?
	It is time we reevaluate everything and take for granted now that everything they have said is a lie.
	And we have to start all over from square one.
	You know, I frequently thought about all of this myself and I too have become pretty cynical.
	And I think as you get older you become more cynical.
	That's one possibility.
	The other is that there's an honest-to-God reason to become More cynical today based on what we've been hearing from you tonight from you in past years about the Gulf War illness.
	These are men who fought for our country and we are turning our backs on them in a conspiracy.
	I mean, it's just it's it's beyond all reason and I tell you I tell you Joyce when I was younger I'd have said BS and something stronger and I would not have believed it.
	But I'm sorry to say the evidence is overwhelming.
	It is, and I wouldn't have believed it, Art, until 1994.
	I didn't start to waken until 1994, and it was after the Oklahoma City bombing because I was one of those And I called to get the seismographic report, and I actually took it to Rice University and asked them to analyze it, and they said, well, whatever happened here, it was two of something.
	Explosions, whatever.
	And by the way, my husband has all of the original clips from the television stations that show that there were two, three, and four bombs present at that time.
	Well, that's all vanished.
	Um, so we need to go back and reevaluate all of these issues.
	Of course, my concern is the military people and those that are out there suffering in silence.
	And, and by the way, I, I thought very long and hard before discussing the issue of these parasites and these worms, because I know every Gulf War veteran is scared to death right now.
	But I had to say it for those that are affected, because if you are affected, you need to come forward.
	We need to find help for you.
	And it is not Well, one of the best ways for people to believe the unbelievable is to go to my website now.
	Go down, scroll down to the guest area, find the name Joyce Riley.
	Under related info, you will now see a link that says US Code Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520A.
	Read it and weep.
	1520 a read it and weep what I'd say Joyce and I unfortunately I am afraid that is
	what we don't know right now that's even more pervasive
	We know there are experiments going on of all types, of all kinds.
	The genetic experiments that are going on are beyond belief.
	And it is time that people come out of the Um, out of the labs, out of their research facilities, come forward and let's get it out in the open as to what damage has been done to this population.
	Because we have a responsibility to our progeny, to our children, to our grandchildren.
	You know what happens to us, Joyce?
	We're in a comfort zone.
	Most Americans are.
	They have a job.
	They're struggling to earn a living, maintain whatever standard of living they have.
	They've all got family problems, just the way I do.
	They've all got various problems and things going on in their lives every day, and it's very hard for them to break out of that routine, to care enough, to pay attention enough, to get upset enough, to become an activist and actually do something about this.
	How do we break them out of this shell of indifference?
	And I'm not really criticizing them.
	Because I understand why they don't.
	I really, I do.
	It's so easy to let it go, so much horrible stuff is in the news every day, that to consider a slaughter at Waco, a blood on the hands of our government, to consider our own veterans who have fought for us, for our country, for our rights, such as they are, who are not cared for, they just can't think about it.
	Joyce, They've got lives.
	Ongoing.
	And they are also braiding the rope that is going to hang them if they don't recognize the severity of this.
	If Waco doesn't do it, or OKC, or something, some issue does not wake them up, then all I can say to them is get out of my way.
	And my favorite word now, art, has become next.
	Because I am not going to try and convince people of these horrific things that are going on.
	If you don't believe me, that is your choice.
	Get out of my way.
	I will find the people that do.
	This Saturday, we're going to be at a Restore America rally with Senator Bob Smith, presidential candidate.
	And this is the kind of thing that's starting to happen in this country.
	It's to help salvage our founding principles.
	This Saturday in Columbus, Ohio, at the Ohio Statehouse.
	Now, we're seeing things starting to develop like this.
	I want to see, in every city, I want to see Operation Braveheart.
	I want to see people who are not afraid to go and picket, like Doug Jones has been doing at the Houston VA for 50 days.
	He has been picketing and sleeping outside of the VA because they are allowing the Gulf War veterans to die.
	It is time we start getting visible because it is our country.
	And for those of you who say we need to take our country back, no.
	I never gave it up.
	I don't want to take it back.
	I want to restore it to the constitutional principles that it was founded on.
	Now here's where I have a hard time, Joyce.
	For example, consider the plight of an Apache helicopter pilot, loaded down with the ordinance you described a little while ago, with orders to fire.
	Imagine that pilot knowing there are women and children in that compound.
	Many, many of them.
	Actually putting his finger down on the pickle and firing into that compound, starting fires and killing women and children.
	Where would you find this pilot?
	We know though that they are given such perceived information as to these horrific people in there that they
	probably have ground-to-air missiles, that they are whatever they want to tell them.
	That they are so into such a mindset and besides, they want to be able to pull that trigger. That's what they have been
	training for.
	And that's why I am so afraid right now of Operation Urban Warrior, which is going right on in this United States as
	we speak.
	It happened down in Texas.
	It happened in Anniston, Alabama.
	Yep.
	The military is going in with real maneuvers, and they are combining with the military department and foreign troops.
	Why do you think they're training like this?
	To take over a civilian population.
	There's no doubt about it.
	I've seen documents on this out of the Operation Short of War, Conflict Short of War.
	We know what they're doing.
	It is supposed to be the cover story of drugs or terrorism or whatever, but it is literally martial law, and it is control of the civilian population, and if we give up our guns, then we have just opened the door to allow them to take over.
	And of course, gun control is raging forth faster than ever, and every time there's another incident, they use that to spearhead yet another drive.
	And they are taking guns, there's no question about it.
	Well listen, during the next hour, if it would be alright, I would very much like to open the phone lines and let people ask you questions.
	Certainly.
	Would that be alright?
	Oh, that would be great.
	Somebody writes, does Joyce have any knowledge about the presence of Delta Force at the Waco siege?
	If so, how much comment can she make?
	You said there was Delta Force, didn't you?
	Not my personal knowledge, but my source's statement is yes, they were there, and I have talked to a number of people in the bureaucracy that are involved with this new investigation, and they have confirmed that to me also.
	I know the subpoenas are flying right now in Washington, and Waco all of a sudden is a front and center.
	What do you think happened, Joyce, to change everything?
	What happened?
	Any idea?
	Oh, I think that what has happened is there is an agenda now to get to the truth on a lot of issues.
	And because people are feeling the pressure of us taking names, is that they want the truth out.
	I think they want to come forward and say, OK, here's what happened.
	Because I'll tell you what, we are taking names.
	All right, Joyce, hold it right there.
	We're at the top of the hour right now.
	We're gonna pause, and when we come back, we're going to take phone calls for Joyce Riley.
	What about you?
	Are you now willing to believe this of your government?
	Would you believe that your government would arm Apache helicopters, send them in, expend half of the very, very lethal ordnance into that compound, You believe they would do that?
	Hello, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You have a lot more information if you've talked to the survivors.
	This information has been out there.
	It's not some big secret that all of a sudden some seal was broken and the information came out.
	It's been out there.
	And I think it is time that the media began to address the issues of those people that come forward that have information.
	Such as, like I was saying with the Dallas Morning News, is why haven't you dealt with other issues?
	It's not just this issue of Waco.
	Uh, the Gulf War illness issue, which the... I will now put the Dallas Morning News on notice to say that they have said they will fully look at all the information that I present them on this issue.
	So we've got a lot of issues to be looked at in this country, not just these two.
	All right.
	Um, east of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Yes, sir.
	Uh, I thought I was on O. Uh... You are O. Oh, that's right.
	I put you on O. I'm sorry about that.
	On the wild card line, you're on the air with Joyce Riley.
	Uh, Joy?
	Yes?
	Uh, are you familiar with, uh, parasitic flukes, uh, such as Leishmaniasis and Schistostomiasis?
	Yes, I am.
	Uh, Leishmaniasis, I understand, will turn your skin black.
	Yes.
	And it's endemic in the, uh, Persian Gulf, and the U.S.
	Government Department of Defense says there are no living Gulf War veterans with it.
	They don't have any of those.
	Do they have drugs?
	No.
	No, no, I'm not saying they don't have it.
	Oh.
	I'm saying the Department of Defense denies that there are any living Gulf War veterans that have it.
	And that's a lie.
	Yeah, well, they can.
	There is a drug that will kill both of those.
	It is, but it often kills a person, too.
	Oh.
	And it's very, very difficult to take.
	Also, I will say that we're starting to get more and more reports of these issues, and I think that the Department of Defense is going to have a lot to explain.
	I also wanted to ask Art something.
	Art, do you remember right after the Oklahoma bombing, a man called you and said that there were bombs attached with military cords?
	Oh, yes, I recall.
	People said a lot of things.
	Did you ever record his voice?
	Did the FBI ask for it?
	No.
	I mean, look, there were a gazillion theories thrown out, almost as many as with the Kennedy assassination.
	But he said there were going to be more, and you kept telling him, well, please don't do this.
	I kept telling him, please don't do this.
	Yeah, he said that there was going to be more terrorist acts.
	That he was part of it?
	Oh, that's right.
	Yeah, well, you know, who knows what people say on the phone, on a talk show, sir.
	There's no way to know.
	And there's no way to trace.
	And so my answer to you is, it just got left in the blizzard of calls and accusations and conspiracy theories.
	And eventually it gets so bad that if the truth were to walk up and hit you in the forehead, you wouldn't know it.
	Because of the noise level of all the various conspiracy theories it's But here with Waco at least we're dealing with something that apparently We can all understand and that that is munitions that were used that should not have been a military that was used that should not have been and in my opinion This is my opinion.
	This is what I said at the time, and I've said ever since, and I say today was government-sanctioned murder.
	And my opinion of that has never changed.
	Maybe it will someday, but not this day.
	Joyce, I know that you have got... I want to have you get your information out.
	I know you've got to be somewhere early in the morning, so give us your contact info, please.
	Okay, thank you.
	And I do want to brag on my webmaster, Gary Robinson, retired military Gulf War veteran who does our website.
	All right.
	Our phone number 1-800-231-7631.
	Now to order, and this is only to order, you need the documents or the videos, 1-877-485-3838.
	877-485-3838.
	To write to me, P.O.
	documents or the videos 1-877-485-3838 877-485-3838 to write to me PO Box 85
	Versailles Missouri 65084 it is GulfWarVets.com If you would like to help us out with Operation Braveheart, it's Dana Hughes, P.O.
	Box 396, Republic, Washington 99166.
	And I don't want any Gulf War veterans to give up, to feel frustrated.
	You have got Art Bell on your side, and I cannot tell you how much that means to us, Art, because I know that you'll continue to wage this war in the behalf of the veterans.
	I will, Joyce.
	I believe you will.
	With my dying breath.
	Have a good morning, Joyce.
	Thank you so much.
	Try to get a little bit of sleep.
	Thank you.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Alright, folks.
	That's Joyce Riley.
	Some world we live in, huh?
	Okay, we're going to come back and do one hour of open lines.
	Anything that you would like to talk to in that gentleman on hold, just stay right there.
	I'll come back to you in a moment.
	From the high desert, you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
	Coming up, unscreened, anything goes phone calls.
	Stay right there 6188255
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial...
	800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	That song will eventually infect you completely.
	It'll be going through your mind 24 hours a day.
	It's good to be with you everybody.
	We've got an hour of open lines directly ahead.
	Anything you want to talk about is fair game coming up next.
	Who knew?
	After days of... This is from the Associated Press in part.
	After days of leaning in favor of independent inquiry, the Justice Department announced Thursday that Reno ...had ordered an outside investigation.
	White House FBI Director Louis Freeh said Congressional Democrats and Republicans had suggested Reno order an independent inquiry.
	President Clinton, quote, is deeply concerned that the Attorney General appears to have been misled and may have been lied to, end quote, about what went on at Waco.
	And so, Where does that leave us?
	Well, I guess drifting slowly in the wind as these penis fly.
	Alright, open lines directly ahead.
	Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes, sir.
	First of all, I'd like to say a big thank you to Joyce Riley.
	Of course.
	Second of all, I know a little bit of where she comes from, although I have only worked with a few veterans, I've worked with a number of returned Peace Corps volunteers, and in the early days, There were problems because of undiagnosed illnesses and there's a catch-22 in terms of getting their benefits.
	The Department of Labor requires a diagnosis before they compensate or give medical care and some volunteers were coming home with kind of an exotic problem.
	But we handled that in a number of ways.
	First of all, We were able to identify microbiologists who had done studies back as far as World War II on the Baton Death March and was able to provide a lot of clues about exotic things.
	And then sometimes with just a phone call, many times local American doctors wouldn't be acquainted with, say, problems coming out of South America.
	And then we got a hold of the GAO, a group of us volunteers who had been disabled out of Peace Corps.
	And I'm happy to say the GAO required the Peace Corps to conform to American hospital service standards, and that took five years.
	But we got that squared away.
	And we had to do a lot of things.
	We went out with yo-yos and stood as close as we could to bureaucrats and yo-yoed until they made decisions and a lot of people... No, that's how America moves.
	What?
	That's how America moves.
	Yeah, but you know, it took a long time and a lot of effort.
	For me, about 20 years.
	I'm very pleased to say that the Peace Corps was very responsive, went out of their way, and now has a first-rate medical service.
	With a minimal amount of complaints.
	And you know, if the Peace Corps can do that, I think the military should be able to do it.
	You would think so, wouldn't you?
	The difference, of course, is in scale.
	If the military was suddenly responsible for treating thousands and thousands of veterans, even perhaps hundreds of thousands of veterans, who may have contracted something in the Gulf, Then, the stakes are not exactly what they are with respect to the Peace Corps scale-wise, or monetary expenditure-wise, so... As you mentioned, sir, yourself, you mentioned the way it finally got done.
	It's political, it's money, it's connections, it's many things, right?
	But, there's also the scale of offense that has been committed, and what it's going to take to rectify that, that you have to deal with, so...
	Imagine the amount of money and the amount of politics that would have to go on with respect to the Gulf War.
	Wild Card Line, you're on air.
	Hi.
	Hi there, Art.
	KOH 50,000, lots of power up in Reno.
	Indeed so.
	I was able to get a hold of the manufacturer's report on the CS gas that was used in Waco.
	We think.
	Well, the report said that 1,384 gallons were pumped in there.
	They ship down 27 drums.
	And what is interesting when I read the report, is that a large part of it, better than half, the delivery agent is kerosene.
	And after a few hours, it breaks down to something that's not quite as flammable as acetone, but very flammable.
	And when it burns, it turns to cyanide gas.
	And this is in the own manufacturer's report, which I have a copy of.
	So after saturating that place with about 1,300 gallons of that stuff, I imagine it was probably a tinderbox waiting to go off.
	I still don't understand why they didn't simply wait.
	Do you?
	Well, I was watching Nightline tonight.
	And the FBI had all kinds of monitors back in Washington, D.C., and they were monitoring everything that was going on, so I think there's going to be probably a lot more tapes come out.
	Oh, I'm sure there will be.
	Thank you very much.
	Look, they had a policy of waiting, if necessary, until hell froze over.
	I'll never forget those words from the spokesman of the FBI spokesperson.
	They knew how many children were there, how many women.
	They knew all that.
	It did not have to end that way.
	You know it, and I know it, and soon the entire nation is going to know it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	How are you doing?
	This is Rene from California.
	Yes.
	Yeah, I want to talk to you a little bit about, you know, sometimes I wonder sometimes what's going on lately with the government, and every time, like, for instance, the Oklahoma bombing.
	Right afterwards, did you notice that they had the terrorist bombing legislation?
	Yes.
	And it's kind of weird that it just happens right afterwards.
	No, it isn't.
	It's like when somebody shoots up a schoolyard, we have gun legislation.
	Exactly.
	And it's funny, if you read the Second Amendment, you know, the last part of it says that you can't infringe upon that amendment.
	But yet, every single law then would have to be illegal.
	Well, I think if ultimately tested, sir, that a very great number of the laws that involve guns in the U.S.
	now Constitutionally would be struck down.
	But you know what it takes to fight those laws?
	It takes money.
	It takes connections.
	It takes power.
	It takes politics.
	It takes all of the things that move America.
	As I told that caller, or that caller told me, that is what moves America.
	I have no doubt about it.
	Public interest.
	Public pressure.
	Money.
	Politics.
	Fear.
	All of those things.
	First time on our line, you're on the air.
	Oh my God, I can't believe I actually got through.
	Can you hear me okay on this phone call?
	I can, sir, yes.
	Oh, good.
	Then it's a good microphone.
	You know, I had a couple of, uh, I've been listening to you for about the past two years and I did have a couple of, um, theories about the progression of the deterioration of government, um, over the years.
	I was at a junior high school soccer when JFK got assassinated and had to make the announcement
	to a gym load of kids to go home.
	The president's been shot and I couldn't figure out why and I sat in front of the old Philco,
	do you remember them?
	And just cried my eyes out and cried and cried.
	Something was wrong because even though JFK did have his thing going on, shall we say,
	he was the most honest president I think we had had in quite a while and was willing to
	tackle the forms of bureaucratic subdivisions, shall we say, of this government that did
	indeed represent a threat to our existence because we represented a threat to their existence.
	That's right.
	And I think, uh, one of the big lies that, um, good old, uh, Billy Boy has told us that he didn't inhale.
	I think he did inhale.
	I think his problem was that he exhaled.
	And, um, you know, as far as I'm concerned, The big drug companies and the medical people in this country know what the truth is, and they know that there are many alternative methods out there for treating people and controlling pain, but if we cut into that profit, that would eliminate their jobs.
	Well, alright, thank you.
	I have two comments on that.
	Everybody says that, and I'm sure there are methods of treatment for various illnesses that are not FDA approved.
	If I had a fatal illness, a fatal diagnosis, perhaps like Terrence McKenna, my friend Terrence, I would do exactly what Terrence is doing.
	And what he's doing is pursuing a legitimate FDA-approved, cutting-edge medical scientific aid, the gamma knife, that kind of thing, and then going to every alternative A method of healing that I believe will work, or has a chance of working.
	And I would do both.
	That's what Terrence is doing, and that opportunity is pretty much available to anybody in this country.
	You can seek various forms of treatment, whether or not they're approved.
	And if it's your life, you're going to do what you want, right?
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, it's Arlen from Calgary.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, Joyce Riley's discussion earlier, I've heard her quite a number of times, and a very intelligent woman there.
	Oh yes.
	It's unfortunate that they're now experimenting on their own, but I think these kind of conspiracies and cover-ups have been going on for an awful long time.
	And I go at all levels of government and especially in the secret agencies of government like the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, and in the banking industry and the media.
	And I think it's all connected.
	Yep.
	I think I believe in conspiracies because a conspiracy to me is really the unknown.
	It's what other people contrive in the back rooms of industry and banking.
	To further their own individual ends and objectives.
	Yes, but you know, that is really what we all do, isn't it?
	We take actions and make decisions, generally to further our ends, whatever they may be, good, bad, or ugly.
	We take steps to enhance our agenda, our position, whatever that may be.
	And that is what they do, be sure of it.
	Sure.
	Bankers.
	Politicians.
	People of power take steps to keep their power and to enhance their position.
	That's how it works, okay?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Going once, going twice.
	Go on.
	I might add, that doesn't always add up to conspiracy.
	Sometimes it adds up to human nature.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Jim from Kansas City, Kansas.
	Hi, Jim.
	Hi.
	I'm a Vietnam veteran from the Air Force.
	I spent one hitch in there, and I was in avionics.
	Right.
	I got out quite a while ago, about 30 years ago in 1970.
	I was meeting with Joyce, Joyce Riley, here just a few, several weeks ago, about a month ago, I guess.
	It was over in Johnson County in Kansas here.
	And one thing she mentioned was that she didn't go to the Gulf, but she thinks she contracted Gulf War illness from the anthrax vaccine.
	Well, either that or from treating Gulf War vets.
	Right.
	Which she did.
	There are many, there are many, not a huge amount, there are many who did not go to the Gulf but did receive the vaccine who do have the Gulf War illness.
	And do you have antibodies in their blood from the adjuvants that were used in that?
	Adjuvants that were not licensed by the FDA?
	The only problem is that, seemingly, to prove it to the satisfaction...
	Of the Veterans Administration, it has to be almost solid science.
	In other words, every case has to be the same.
	Otherwise, they say, oh, well, look at this.
	This is just a random problem.
	You're right.
	You're actually correct.
	I've read the GAO reports.
	I've met a lot of them.
	There you are.
	Well, that's the case they make.
	But the one thing that I think is important, when you find little bits and pieces of information that are important, one of them was the Secretary of the Army, Caldera, had in a memo, which has been put on the Internet at Gulf War Vets, I believe, I don't know that I can verify it.
	There is currently a big controversy.
	has linked the Gulf War illness to the anthrax vaccine publicly.
	Recent documents were made public.
	And so that's a pretty heavy statement there.
	It is. I don't know that I can verify it.
	And there is currently a big controversy.
	As you know, a number of service members have refused the anthrax vaccine shot
	to end up facing the UCMJ.
	In other words, they've disobeyed an order.
	Not an easy decision for any military member to make.
	Really not easy at all.
	It used to be.
	It used to be so cut and dry.
	It used to be so cut and dry.
	You were in the military, you did precisely what you were told.
	But on the other hand, you also had a firm belief that the U.S.
	government, which you worked for, Had your best interest always in mind.
	Now, whether that attitude is prevalent today or not, I am not so sure.
	How about you?
	First time caller in line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi there.
	Um, I've been trying to get ahold of you.
	You're the only one who listens to me this time of night.
	Well, here you are.
	Oh, good.
	So, uh... West of the Rockies.
	Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	Please?
	Well, first of all, my dear, you cannot use that kind of language.
	I apologize.
	Okay.
	You know what?
	Yes, what?
	I think that we should recycle the water a little better.
	Don't flush our toilet into our water system.
	Don't you think?
	I mean, it's just a waste of all of our natural resources.
	You think that we should do what now?
	We should not flush our toilets into our water table.
	Oh, I'm all for that, of course.
	Of course, I think you'll find the science behind leach fields, appropriate leach fields, for the water table is pretty solid and the water that you would get would be just fine.
	Well, okay.
	Here's another one.
	How about a little bit of natural power, natural energy?
	Yes.
	Can't we hook up, like, all those drains that are going down off the roof?
	Can't you hook up a little water wheel on those?
	Well, I appreciate the thought.
	I think you should amplify the thought a little bit.
	I don't know about drains turning wheels at the end of everybody's water spout on their house.
	However, To magnify what you said into a proper perspective, if we don't start moving toward alternative energy sources very quickly, and you really wouldn't believe how much power it takes to power your house, if we don't begin exploring and going into production with alternative energy, wind, solar, whatever, very quickly, in 40 or 45 years, we'll be killing each other over gasoline, oil,
	Fossil fuels.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	No, you would have been.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Turn your radio off.
	Yeah, I'm working on it here.
	All right.
	Okay.
	How you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Canada.
	All right.
	And I've been listening for a while.
	Yes.
	And what have you concluded?
	I've concluded I've come up with some pretty interesting stuff.
	Go.
	The other thing, I was wondering when Dapper Hoagland was going to be on again.
	Who?
	Dapper Hoagland.
	Oh, Richard Hoagland.
	Dapper Hoagland.
	I talked to him earlier today.
	Soon, we're waiting for some vital information to develop to answer your question.
	He was mentioning something about Leedskillen, about Coral Castle.
	Yes.
	And something to do with how they put the castles together.
	Yes.
	And I was just wondering if he has passed that information along yet.
	Just to some of us.
	Yeah.
	You don't know when the next time he will mention it, eh?
	The next time he's on, we'll press him on that, all right?
	Okay.
	That's probably going to be a very, very good program, The Life of P.T.
	Barnum.
	You might want to catch that.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi Art.
	It's Steve from Surrey, B.C.
	Hi, Steve.
	Kind of been in and out listening to the show tonight, but earlier you were talking about that thing that you saw in the sky and the guy from Vancouver.
	I'm just curious what colors it was changing to.
	To me, it was flashing like an aircraft light.
	It was singular.
	There was only one.
	It was red.
	And I think I detected white.
	However, it remained stationary for a really protracted period of time in the east.
	And I could damn near make out form.
	And I had no idea what it was.
	It was pointed out to me by my wife.
	And I kind of blew it off as an aircraft or whatever.
	And then I had his call and I went, hmm.
	We saw that too.
	Well, I didn't see it myself, but I know, uh, I saw one, something a little bit similar one time, and I called the, uh, reporting center in Seattle, and it turned out that, uh, they thought it was probably the Mirror Space Station, but also I know that the, uh, International Space Station sometimes is visible, and it... Well, one, one thing, sir, that the, the Mirror Station does not do is remain stationary.
	It's always going around.
	Yeah.
	I just want to say last night was one of the best shows I've listened to in a long time.
	I'm sure it kept me on the edge of my seat.
	It kept me on the edge of my seat.
	I mean, I lived it with you.
	You lived it with me as it happened.
	And I still am not sure what to make out of what occurred last night.
	There are varying stories around, as usual.
	You know, a meteor, space junk, A Russian space booster, but now the Australians say they have seen one as well during daylight hours.
	That'd be a hell of a booster.
	Now, how do you see it during daylight hours in Australia?
	And then it makes that much of a trip around the globe and comes in from the north.
	Now, let's see, over the pole, I suppose.
	And then comes in over the north, but that's quite a trip.
	That's some re-entry.
	I don't know that I'd buy that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	I, too, saw that thing in the sky tonight.
	You did?
	Yeah.
	I'm calling from Colorado.
	Yes.
	And my name's Debbie.
	Anyway, I was outside hanging some clothes on the On the clothesline, and I just happened to look to the east, and I saw that, um... Oh, my God.
	...orange kind of thing, and then it was... I thought it was an airplane, too, but then it just sat there, and I must have looked at it for, like, 15 seconds or so.
	Wow!
	I wonder what we all saw.
	I don't know, but it was pretty weird.
	And at first, I did think it was an airplane, too, but then it just sat there, and I'm going, no, that can't be right.
	So, anyway, I just wanted to let you know.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	All right, take care.
	I didn't think a lot of it at the time.
	Again, my wife pointed it out, and I said, oh, yeah.
	Then I said, well, I think it's moving.
	But your eye does that.
	You can test that theory, by the way, by going out to look at Venus when it's low in the sky and when you're looking through quite a bit of atmosphere.
	If you stare at Venus long enough, it will appear to move up and down and left and right.
	Try it.
	Trust me.
	Just stare at it.
	It's a trick your eyes play on you.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Down in central Pennsylvania.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, I was wondering if you heard anything...
	...
	But your eye does that.
	You can test that theory, by the way, by going out to look at Venus when it's low in the sky and when you're looking through quite a bit of atmosphere.
	If you stare at Venus long enough, it will appear to move up and down and left and right.
	Try it.
	Trust me.
	Just stare at it.
	It's a trick your eyes play on you.
	The wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	I'm down in central Pennsylvania.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, I was wondering if you heard anything more about Nuclear plants?
	I didn't get to listen when Gary North was on.
	No, actually, interestingly, that's the one thing that we did not cover during this particular interview with Gary North.
	In previous interviews, he has said that if they are not, he knows of none that are now compliant.
	And if they are not compliant by a certain date, they're going to have to shut down.
	Yeah, I believe it was June 30th or something like that.
	I don't recall.
	Uh, how about anything with, uh, the government?
	Where we were supposed to go over and monitor Russia, and Russia was supposed to come over and monitor us.
	Yeah, that's a new story, uh, thank you, breaking tonight.
	And there does appear to be, uh, a discussion underway that would virtually put a Russian commander inside of, uh, I guess Cheyenne Mountain, and, uh, an American equivalent commander, uh, with the Russian Rocket Forces Command Center.
	So that nobody makes a mistake on New Year's Eve.
	We don't need those kinds of fireworks.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	I'm calling from Arkansas.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And we noticed the same type of thing in our skies here on Monday.
	There were quite a few of them and they were very large and they were stationary.
	I noticed them at 1 a.m.
	until dawn.
	Really?
	Daybreak, yes.
	And then the next night, I looked for them, and they weren't there.
	And then I start walking back, and I looked west, in your direction, and they were there.
	And they stayed stationary in the sky, and there seemed to be, like, four.
	The night before, we had quite a few.
	Yes.
	Let's think about this for a moment.
	For an object, and I'm not a scientist, as you know, but for an object to be seen, From where I am, for example, and as far north as Vancouver, and as far east as the Midwest.
	And to be seen simultaneously from all of those locations would require, you know, you can work that out, but it would require something in space.
	In other words, we would be looking at something, we would have to be looking at something in space.
	Anywhere within the atmosphere would be Too low, in my opinion, to be seen from that varied kind of geographic location.
	So whatever it was, it would have had to have been in space.
	And if that were true, then based on the relative size, as I saw it, whatever it would be, it would be really big.
	Wow, Caroline, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	Very quickly, I wanted to talk about an issue that is very, very important to me.
	Yes, sir?
	Tobacco.
	I'm disappointed that you haven't done this already.
	I would like for you to have, as a guest on your show, better yet, two guests, and for four or five hours, talk about how secondhand smoke is not dangerous, Talk about how that it is possible to smoke for like 50 or 60 years and never get sick.
	Of course that's true.
	But... They don't talk about that.
	Of course not.
	In Japan, a large section of the large That section of the population smokes, and they have a much, much lower rate.
	I'm very much aware of that, yes.
	And what they call smoking-related deaths is another big, big issue.
	The number of people that they class as smoking-related.
	Yeah.
	Now look, on the other hand, you and I both know it's probably not good for you.
	But it is, but I think that we could cut down The number of people getting sick, we could make it much, much lower than it is right now.
	Because one time I was listening to a radio show, and it was a talk show, and the guest was an author.
	How much rice and raw fish do you eat?
	None.
	None?
	Well, that might be one big reason why the Japanese have a much lower cancer rate.
	It might be their diet.
	Have you thought of that?
	It may be, yeah.
	That's one thing I've thought of.
	But one time I was listening to a radio show, And the guest was an author of a book called Turning Back the Clock.
	Yes.
	He said that by taking certain vitamins, a smoker could have the lungs of a non-smoker.
	Well, I've also heard that.
	And I'd like for you to, again, have a guest on your show talking about how secondhand smoke isn't dangerous and talking about that.
	Alright, I'll do it.
	If I find somebody appropriate to do it, I'll do it.
	You don't need to Push me?
	I, you know, I don't care anymore.
	I will do whatever is interesting and nobody ever tells you the side of the story.
	That's what the man was really saying and he's right.
	He's absolutely correct.
	There's a lot you don't hear.
	You don't hear about the people who smoke all their life and then die of a totally non-smoking related death.
	I mean, how many of those are there?
	Why don't they give us numbers?
	Must be in the millions.
	But we don't hear about that.
	Now I know as a general rule, anything you overdo is not good for you.
	And I'm sure that applies to smoking.
	And I just, I have a lot of argument with the figures they come up with and why they're doing it and the political correctness of a lot of it.
	By the way, if you're a smoker, it's like you can't live in California anymore.
	That's how bad it is.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Okay.
	I have been to them, yes.
	I was just wondering, do you ever get to any of the consumer electronics shows that they
	have there at the Vegas Adventure Center?
	I have been to them, yes.
	They are very enjoyable, aren't they?
	Oh yes.
	Cool.
	I always wanted to ask you that because I go there every year and maybe I'll run into
	you there one time.
	Could be.
	Could be.
	I would probably be in disguise, though.
	Oh, would you?
	Yeah, I probably would be.
	Well, um, just, uh, our prayers are out there for you and your family, and, uh, keep up the great show.
	Thank you, and, uh, take care.
	You know, that's one little price you pay, uh, is being recognized all the time, and I'm now recognized all the time, so... I don't know.
	I don't, uh...
	It's really strange.
	I am kind of an anomaly, really, I think, in the industry.
	I love doing my program, but I don't crave public attention hard as that may be for some of you to believe.
	I actually avoid it as much as I can.
	I don't know.
	Doing the program is one thing.
	Interaction with all of you here is one thing.
	And then being out in the public and being treated differently is something else altogether.
	And it's not really all that comfortable an experience for me.
	And so I avoid it.
	And I'm very protective of my privacy off air.
	And very open with my life on air.
	So it seems like a contradiction, doesn't it?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Yes, how are you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	This is Tim.
	I'm going across Nebraska.
	I'm on my way back to Ohio right now.
	I just wanted to comment that how they're sending one independent investigator for all this Waco stuff.
	I just want to make a nomination.
	I think you should do it.
	I should do it?
	Because you're about the only person out here who can tell the truth about everything and try to investigate it to the fullest extent.
	Well, if I'm the only person left who will do that, then it's all lost anyway.
	Well, unfortunately, it's hoped out, but I feel that you're just the type of person that would be able to find the truth of what's going on for real.
	I appreciate that, sir, but cynical as I may be, and I am cynical, I am best doing at what, you know, what I'm doing.
	This is what I do.
	Now, we have, we must have people willing to pursue the truth.
	You know, wherever the chips may fall, people who are willing to pursue the truth.
	And if we run out of a stock of those sorts of people, then it's all over anyway.
	So, on the plus side, we are investigating.
	We are looking back into Waco now, based on new evidence.
	I'm trying to look on the brighter side of things.
	We are examining ourselves again on a very crucial issue that a lot of people would rather have buried, remain buried.
	You still live in a country where this can happen.
	East of the Iraqis, you're on the air.
	Hey, how you doing, Eric?
	Okay.
	This is Todd in Michigan.
	Yes, sir.
	I wish you'd get some more marker here in Michigan, because it's hard to chase you around the dial all night.
	Well, is that what you do, chase me around the dial?
	Yep, there's one station fades away, I go to another one, and then about five o'clock they all drop you, and I'm really... WLS is about the only one that gets you on this time of day.
	Well, the show is over then.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	You're in Michigan.
	Yeah.
	So that makes you in the Eastern Heim zone, right?
	Right.
	I see.
	So no matter who you listen to, you never get the last hour.
	No.
	Well, there's a price for living in Michigan.
	Yes, there's a price.
	I just want to shed a little light on the Waco thing and the Apache helicopters.
	Sure.
	They were using a lot of noise warfare towards these people.
	And most of the Apache's ops are at night.
	Right.
	That's what I tried to explain to that man.
	And they would be very easily hidden from all the other stuff going on, especially if they got Hueys flying around down low.
	Oh, no question about it.
	So it's a very, you know, believable thing that they, you know, they stood off two, three, four miles and the Delta Force was painting the picture on the house.
	I know.
	You know?
	So, you know, there's a lot more to come to light than It's just a CS canister.
	Well, I was trying to look on the bright side of things a little while ago, and the bright side of this is that at least they're opening it back up.
	Yeah, I heard you.
	Yeah, you're right.
	I mean, if we lived in a country where mistakes are always buried and always simply go away, then we wouldn't be opening this back up again.
	So, you know, there's some reason to hope that there's still a democracy, a republic out there at work.
	I'm with you.
	All right?
	All right.
	Thanks for the call.
	Take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Oh, okay.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	I'm going to have that tattooed on my arm so people can see it on the camera.
	Turn your radio off.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Dark?
	It is.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, you sure sound a lot different.
	I know.
	That's what you say.
	I'd like to get back to this Winkle thing, too.
	Yes.
	It was seven for you the last time around.
	Right.
	He had Mr. John Rappaport investigate a reporter out of, I think it was Frisco.
	Right.
	And Rappaport was saying that he mentioned that Foster was, I think he said Foster was the point man in this whole situation, and that Ron Horiyuchi was also down there at Waco.
	Well, we may yet learn other reasons for the Foster suicide question mark.
	Yeah.
	You know, who knows?
	And he also mentioned that Foster's wife said he was very distraught, etc., and was writing up something about the Waco situation, which may lead to as to why there was the I have no argument for anything you just said.
	It's as good a conclusion as anybody else's had so far.
	Oh, and one other thing, too.
	Let's have your webman get something else up on your site.
	What's that?
	That's CFR 44.
	It's the emergency management and assistance thing.
	FEMA?
	Alright, we'll take a look for it, sure.
	You know, and again, I'm very cautious when it comes to consideration of application of the word conspiracy to everything the government does in terms of readiness.
	In other words, the government is responsible for anticipating and preparing for the safety of all of us.
	It's part of their job.
	And so they do preparation.
	FEMA does legitimate preparation.
	I know there are a lot of you who worry that that preparation is really for something else.
	And I might occasionally worry with you, but for the most part, I think a lot of it is very legit.
	The preparations they're making, they should be doing that.
	The continuity of government demands it.
	The public safety demands it.
	And so they do a lot of this kind of work that is interpreted by those who think in gray areas as very dark indeed.
	Maybe it is.
	Close to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Ardell?
	Yes.
	Hi, my name is Kathy, and I'm calling from Huntington Beach, California.
	Hi, Kath.
	And this is concerning the Waco incident.
	Yes.
	And I wondered if there was any mention about radiation contamination.
	I've never heard anything about that.
	Well, the reason I ask is, this is unrelated, but I trust BBC News more than I do the news that comes out of the United States.
	And they had mentioned this week about Gulf War and the Apache helicopters which were used both with the British and the United States troops.
	Oh, you heard that on the BBC, huh?
	Exactly.
	And... Oh, my.
	The, uh, missiles, or what, uh, you know, the, uh, what I want to say, the, uh... Ordnance?
	Exactly.
	Uh, contained a low-grade plutonium.
	And so, the British soldiers, they felt that their Gulf War symptoms were caused by radiation poisoning.
	All right, listen, uh, you have talked my show to an end.
	It's over.
	Okay.
	I gotta, I have to go, so...
	Huntington Beach.
	From Huntington Beach, tell everybody good night.
	Okay.
	Good night, Huntington Beach.
	Yes, and all the rest of you, too.
	I'm Art Bell.
	That's it from the high desert.

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