Art Bell’s October 1998 exit from the air was triggered by two personal cases he couldn’t disclose, leaving listeners in suspense until now. Joined by Ann Druffel—who studied UFOs and abductions for 42 years—he explores her book How to Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction, endorsed by astronaut Edgar Mitchell, detailing nine resistance methods like mental struggle or summoning "righteous anger." Druffel links abductors to global folklore (jinns, Celtic fairies) and warns against hypnosis, citing confabulation risks. Callers debate ley lines, Asian encounters, and poltergeist-like activity, while Jay from Ohio recounts a violet-light abduction at a music festival, hinting at interdimensional manipulation. Bell’s abrupt shift underscores the urgency of suppressed truths in UFO lore, leaving listeners questioning whether silence equals conspiracy or something far more unsettling. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across this great land of ours.
From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, exotic in the west, to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, exotic in the East, South into South America, North all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
Thanks to broadcast.com and of course the genius of Intel Corporation streaming video.
Yes, you can go to my website and get the G2 player.
Then come back and simply click on streaming video and you'll see the show underway.
All right, I have a number of announcements to make.
Not actually a number, a couple.
One is, ladies and gentlemen, I have been promising this for a couple of years now.
A little less than a couple of years, I guess.
And I have delivered to my internet audience the reason that I left the air in October of 98.
And tonight, in the next hour, I'm going to detail at least some degree to my radio audience why I left the air.
I promised I would do that and I'm going to follow through.
So there you have it.
That'll be coming up next hour.
In the meantime, we've got a very great deal to do tonight.
I do want to announce, though, before we get off to it, that there is going to be a book signing for the source, you know, the book that Brad Steiger and myself authored.
I really should say that Brad Steiger, you know, I did say that in myself, Brad's name should be first.
He did more work than I did, that's for sure.
But there's going to be a book signing, and my co-author Brad Steiger is going to be at the Ridgehaven Barnes and Noble bookstore at 13131 Ridge Dale Drive in Minnetonka, Minnesota.
That's a suburb of Minneapolis.
That's where Brad's going to be.
Minnetaca, Minnesota.
I hope I've got that right, don't I?
Minnetaca.
I believe I do.
It'll be Friday, June 4th at 7 in the evening.
And everybody who goes over and sees Brad and gets a signed edition of the source will also receive a free autographed photograph of me.
So it's going to be obviously very well attended.
We suggest you get there early.
There are, I will add, only a limited number of photographs available.
A lot has gone on, and I think because of that just marvelous interview you had with Jose Escamila, what was it, about a week or ten days ago, I found it absolutely riveting.
I think in part because when I listen to other UFO researchers talk about their respective subjects, and Jose is very good in this respect, in respect to presenting data and corroborating what he says, and good heavens, he's provided videotape.
You can't do much better than that.
I thought what I would like to do is start with a really seemingly very dramatic case that occurred very close to home here over Seattle, specifically over, it seems, Mercer Island or just west of there, and share with our listeners some of the things that we've been getting along the lines of, for lack of any better term, rods.
I find when I listen to other researchers, I compare the data that has come into the center with what they are finding, whether they be from this country or another country or what have you.
And as Jose was speaking, I mentally filtered through some of the more interesting and seemingly inexplicable cases that have come to us.
This one that I'd like to focus on here during the first few minutes of our program tonight occurred just six days ago, recently, Wednesday, the 26th of May, 1999.
It occurred about 1 o'clock, I think was the time of the sighting.
If you'd permit me, I'd like to start with just about a 40-second audio cut of the message that we first got on our answering service, and then perhaps we can go to our guests tonight.
I always like to share with our listeners the freshest, the latest, the most first-hand experience I can provide them.
I had a UFO sighting Wednesday afternoon about 1 p.m., Wednesday 26th of May, westbound I-90 between Bellevue approaching Mercer Island.
Cylinder, a silvery cylinder was accelerating in front of my vehicle fairly close, less than half a mile, maybe a third of a mile, and it appeared about an inch and a half long.
She held a ballpoint pan at arm's length, that shaft of the pan, about that minute, about an inch and a half long.
Bright blue sky, high contrast, no tail visible, no wing visible.
Obviously, it was not a plane.
Could have seen such any structures with such high contrast and closeness.
And I called him shortly after we had received this message.
He sounded very bright, very precise.
He seemed to have a very good memory, recollection of what he had seen.
All of these are very good signs with regard to getting a very precise, high-quality follow-up report.
Well, I've talked to Scott on a couple of occasions now.
Every time I talk to him, I become more impressed with his background, with his ability to look at something and register what he had seen.
When I called him tonight to get final permission to use his voice over the air, it occurred to me that it might be fun to have him on the air.
And if we could, what I'd like to do is go to our guest tonight and have him describe for our listeners what it was he saw just six days ago over Mercer Island, very close to Seattle, not five miles.
Well, then, if you would, just go ahead and redo, if you would, adding any details what we just heard on that little snippet of tape when you made the report.
Go ahead and lay it out for us again and add anything you didn't get in.
I hadn't had a chance to tell Peter this, but I was out north of Seattle in a friend's house cutting her grass again about 1 o'clock in the afternoon,
and suddenly there was this thumping or the sound of a huge helicopter, and I looked up and there was a huge black helicopter very slowly cruising over and then it disappeared and then it went silent again.
And that huge vehicle had been approaching apparently in silence and then to attract my attention went out of the silent mode and then back into it once it had passed over.
And that definitely was an identified flying object.
Whether these two events are connected, I don't know, but I just noticed the very curious juxtaposition since I'd never seen a black helicopter before in my life either.
But, I mean, did you have any sort of post-traumatic stress that came from it where you sort of self-examined every little aspect of it and thought about it again and again and again?
I found myself, I've made a large entry in my journal describing it.
Today I did further calculations about the various distances and reflecting on the likelihood that it was self-luminescent because of the lack of shadows on it.
Top of the evening or morning to you, wherever you may be, everybody, on a ride we are with Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington.
He's got more for you coming up.
Again, I want to mention, at the top of the next hour, or for 30 minutes into the next hour, depending on how you want to look at it, I'm going to tell you why I left the air in October of 98.
I'm going to tell you exactly why.
Because the story has now broken.
I told you I would not break the story, but it's out, and so I'm going to go ahead and tell you what I know and what led up to it and all the rest of it.
That'll be the beginning of the next hour.
Peter, if we had more people who would come forward like Scott Benson, maybe the mystery would be over by now.
It's a mystery to me how something like that allegedly can take place, and there's only one report.
But it happens all the time.
One would think that if something as dramatic as what Scott described had taken place, that you'd get five or half a dozen or a dozen people on Interstate 90 calling somewhere, someone, to report what they'd seen, or at the very least, they would write it down, the time, the place, the date, what they were doing, what they saw, a little drawing of it, which is what I encourage everyone to do.
It comes from Memphis, Tennessee on the 10th of May, 10th of this month, Art.
You may recall, I think the last time I appeared on Coast to Coast was the 13th of May, and I played an audio cut, again from Memphis, Tennessee, of a gentleman who saw a white disc, allegedly, streak across the sky from the western sky up to the north and fly right into a cloud, and that was the last he saw of it.
Well, I had no way of knowing it, but that triggered several calls to the center here in Seattle from people in Memphis who had seen something very unusual.
Not that day, not on the 13th of May, but three days earlier, Monday, the 10th of May.
And it was equally dramatic.
It was, again, like as in Scott's case tonight, very close or actually in commercial airspace, which makes this a very, very peculiar phenomenon.
Why don't I just go to this 30-second, about 38-second cut that describes what was seen on the 10th of May, very close to the Memphis, Tennessee airport.
This is what was reported to us by a gentleman who is a very prominent public figure in Memphis.
On Monday, May the 10th at 12.15 p.m. high noon, I was walking to give a final at the college where I teach, and directly above my head was a disc-shaped object traveling to the northeast,
highly reflective, and approximately half the size of an MD-11 airplane, and an MD-11 airplane landing at the airport in Methods flew about 200 yards over it.
Now, if an object got that close to a commercial airliner, while our government might not consider it to be national security, national security issue, I would.
I would certainly consider it to be a safety issue.
I mean, remember, we had reports of collisions with UFOs in Mexico.
They actually had physical damage to aircraft.
And from time to time, aircraft come down, and how do we know that there hasn't been a collision?
You know, my predecessor at this job, Robert Gribble, Robert J. Gribble, very well-known UFO investigator who founded the hotline in October of 1974, is a specialist in that field.
I wish I could get him on the radio someday to talk about some of the cases that he pursued very quietly, just assembling data the way any investigator has to do, and his final conclusion as to what has happened to a few airliners in the past has some very, very good evidence.
No more than any, I think, fair-minded investigator has come to any logical, documentable conclusion on this.
We are dealing, I think the most we can say is we are clearly dealing with a phenomenon that we do not understand.
Our skeptics are correct.
We don't have proof of anything yet.
Probably we won't until we have one of these objects on a laboratory bench and we can unscrew the top of it and sort of poke around and figure out what makes it tick.
Well, then there's one other thing that might be added here, and that is that we can't really be sure, can we, that we don't have one of those things somewhere on a table, as you just suggested.
And your statement leads me to something that I observe is happening to me more and more often.
Whenever something occurs, I guess because of my peculiar job, I always analyze it and try to interpret it, if it's a mystery in particular, interpret it within the framework of my job, my academic interest, UFOs.
And it leads me to wonder, Art, you know, there's this old saw, why don't they land and show themselves clearly?
And every time I think about it, every time I try to imagine and search for proof or evidence as to how their presence here might manifest itself in our society, I find that my skin begins to crawl a little bit out of concern for our future welfare because we don't have any proof that that has not happened.
And in view of the quantity and the nature of evidence that's pouring in here, and you see it as well, and hundreds and hundreds of UFO investigators across the country see the same thing, it makes me a little bit concerned for the welfare of my fellow citizens.
He wrote a book called The Threat, which depicted these whoever they are, as not the fuzzy little close encounters of the third dimension, close encounters of the third kind tight, fuzzy little creature that we thought of.
And I feel I know nothing about those alleged creatures, but I do come down on the side of Dr. Jacobs.
With regard to the issue of safety, if we're going to err, clearly we should err on the side of caution when it comes to matters regarding our continued existence in this galaxy.
And the fact that the government is saying nothing about it and the press refuses to cover it, good gracious, why are the members of the press not talking about the gorgeous, gorgeous crop circles that have been appearing in England and, in fact, around the world since April of this year?
They are preoccupied with Monica Lewinsky's lipstick color, and they don't publish a single one of those fascinating crop circles and the excellent work that Colin Andrews and many others are doing in that field.
Well, single word, agenda, I think, because, of course, there have been a couple of programs on television designed, obviously, to debunk the whole crop circle thing with people attempting to make crop circles to demonstrate how it's done and faked.
And, you know, it's all a fraud.
Well, anybody with five seconds of investigation into this knows there have been crop circles in Great Britain that could not possibly, possibly have been done with two guys and a board and a chain.
With a few minutes remaining here, I would like, if you would permit, I'd like to play another audio cut just about 50 seconds long because it forms an appeal or represents an appeal I would like to make to the ladies and gentlemen in Louisville,
Kentucky, who may have been attending the Kentucky Derby on the 1st of May this year, because a gentleman allegedly has succeeded in getting something very interesting on videotape.
And if there's anybody who, just before the first of ten races in the Kentucky Derby, saw something unusual in the skies above Louisville, Kentucky, we'd certainly like to hear from them.
Let me just go to this audio cut and I'll share with our listeners, if I may, what came in to us and let them judge for themselves whether there's any merit to this.
Here we go.
About 50 seconds, I think it is.
unidentified
All right.
I was taping the aircraft that followed the Darby and Duty advertisements, and I saw a bright metallic, look-like ball shape, go behind one of the Cessna planes, come out the other side of it, and in about four seconds after that, as soon as it got in the center of the frame of my shot, it started to disappear in a puff of vapor and reappear in different parts of the shot.
It does this a total of nine times in about four seconds.
And when you frame by frame it, it cuts to and fro about 50 to 60 times.
These things are being reported to us all the time.
I think it's imperative that the American people and now because of the website and because of your program, people around the world understand that this appears to serious-minded people to be a real concrete phenomenon which we do not understand yet, which the government will not speak about, which the press has apparently, consciously decided not to cover.
And I think it's clearly information that must be gotten out to the American public and, in fact, all human beings on this planet.
Do you think, this is a tough question, Peter, that there is an actual conspiracy of silence on the part of the press, or that the press has simply come to regard these things as something that you don't report on because you somehow hurt your credibility, or I don't know, whatever it is.
I think it's the overriding question of the UFO phenomenon, and let me answer it.
It's a subject that you and I have talked about on many occasions, I know, on your programs.
The thing that we observe from our vantage point up here in Seattle is that whereas the local and regional press will cover this with alacrity, they can't get enough of this.
They want to know about any cases in their vicinity and so on and so forth.
They have a genuine interest in it.
When it comes to the national press, the boys and girls downtown in the blue stripe, blue pinstripe suits, you couldn't apparently interest them in this at all.
And they're consciously ignoring it.
We have a real problem in Seattle.
We've had some dramatic sightings up here in our state.
I've reported many of them over coast to coast.
And I can't get our local newspapers to even return my telephone calls.
They're not in the least interested.
One of the television stations up here has been very good in at least considering some of these cases that I hand to them.
But why would the press not cover this issue?
Why would they not investigate it, at least talk to the alleged witnesses, like Scott Benson tonight, case in point?
It's the hardest job I've ever had in my life, Art.
But it is also, in my opinion, the most important job I've ever had in my life.
What good it could do, God only knows.
I certainly don't.
It's clear that we are passengers with respect to this phenomenon.
We're not making any conscious decisions with regard to these objects that course through our skies.
But I do believe that the first step is collecting the data and, thanks to Coast to Coast, getting it out to a large body of people so that they may consider it.
Perhaps even they have the answers to this phenomenon.
So it might be concluded that these creatures, whatever in the hell they are, are able to present themselves in a way that would be less stressful for the abductee.
One of the most striking ones is just plain physical struggle.
And I have several abductees who have simply jumped out of bed when the creatures have approached them and either pushed them or told them very, very frantically, you know, don't, I can't be bothered tonight, go away.
And they vanish.
They vanish.
The one who pushed the creature is Morgana van Clausen, who lives in the San Gabriel Valley.
And she had been bothered several times by these creatures that came in the middle of the night.
And one day she was just sick and tired of it one evening.
She was sound asleep.
The creature appeared at her bedside, and she simply jumped up and pushed it on its chest, and she could feel that it was soft like satin, she said.
So in other words, you are suggesting that it is your view that these creatures do not cross through hundreds or thousands of light years to come here in conventional craft at something less than the speed of light.
Well, let's see if you accept the fact that our government has knowledge of all this going on.
They say they concluded Operation Blue Book and other investigations, basically saying UFOs, whatever they are in our skies, are not a threat to national security.
And they sort of dropped the subject at that point.
Do you believe that our government either is aware of all of this and or that it has made some kind of deal with these creatures?
In other words, what is our government's present position with regard to these UFOs and these creatures?
I know that the government has been interested from the very beginning of the reports of the craft being chased by pilots and seen by radar.
This indicates that this is a physical phenomenon.
I accept the physical craft as a physical phenomenon.
But I know from a very good friend of mine who was in the CIA that they are very interested in photographs of UFOs because his company analyzed 55 photos for the Air Force and the CIA at another agency, which he was unable to tell me what it was.
This was in the mid-1960s.
But when he tried to get the contract number in the 70s for me to get the material from the FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, they told him that that was not to be discussed.
And then he tried years later to get it.
And they said even more strongly, it would do nobody any good to pursue this any further.
Well, obviously, and there have been many people who believe that, as you point out, there is a secret aspect to our government or a government within a government or a government above our government that holds this information to itself for whatever reason, the majestic 12-type thing.
Because what my friend, you know, my friend who had the photogrammetric agency and analyzed 55 photos for the Air Force and the CIA, his scientists came to the conclusion that these were unknown craft from an unknown origin.
They were aerial, physical craft from an unknown origin.
I mean, even recently, we've had reports from aircraft pilots and of things crossing the Atlantic at incredible speeds, the size of battleships, in fact, by several aircraft recently.
Just incredible reports.
And I have no idea what they could be, but they may be interdimensional craft.
Well, now the physical UFOs that sometimes are seen to land and little occupants get out and do sorts of monitoring things, you know, with the leaves and soil that run away when witnesses approach them.
I would accept as a hypothesis that perhaps the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely.
Well, that would mean, though, that they have probably gone faster than the speed of light or live very, very long lives indeed to come here from light years away.
But if we had had craft crash on this earth and had some understanding of propulsion system, it would seem that we would not be leaving the earth in anger, so to speak, with these great rocket ships with their great trails of smoke and flame, that we would be using a more sophisticated type of propulsion if we had been studying UFO propulsion since 1947,
as the people in Roswell, the Roswell researchers contend.
If you were one of these creatures and you were examining our world and had been since, let us say, the explosion of the first atomic bomb, and you'd been keeping an eye on us right through today, what would you conclude with regard to actual contact and our joining with whoever might be out there or across the next dimension or whatever?
In other words, would you conclude that we are a fit people conducting ourselves in a fit way on this world to join some sort of federation?
I saw earlier tonight that India and Pakistan are going at it over Kashmir.
And, of course, they've both got nuclear weapons, and I'm sort of on pins and needles just waiting to hear what might happen.
We're bombing the hell out of Yugoslavia, and God knows what else is going on in the world.
I don't know what the rules would be for inclusion into some sort of federation, but I would think not having a propensity to commit suicide or take others with you would be one rather immediate concern.
By recognizing that most abduction scenarios occur in an altered state, and that once the altered state is entered and the aliens are able to break through into our space-time or into the altered state, that they have charge.
They have charge if the abductee lets them have charge.
I believe they have a way of deepening the altered state that an abductee is in to the extent that perhaps very few people could ever get out of it.
The thing is, the creatures, I accept the abduction phenomenon as a real phenomenon because it does affect rational, stable individuals.
I believe that they're telling what happened to them as best they can.
So it is a real phenomenon on some state, on some state of reality.
But I do not think that it takes place in the physical space-time that we ordinarily live in and in full waking consciousness.
I wanted to make that sure Plane.
But the creatures, whatever they are, seem to be able to read our thoughts and tensions and to change shape or to change the scenario of the abduction to something more acceptable if the abductee starts to object too violently to it.
All right, you say, but see, that would seem to imply that these creatures, whatever they are, are more in the world of the paranormal than what we would think of as the normal.
All right, Anne, I've interviewed a lot of abductees, and in a lot of cases, you're correct.
There have been things sexual that have gone on, either clinical or not so clinical.
And then there have been reports later of continuing abductions in which these abductees have been shown their supposed offspring or mixture offspring.
I do not think it's knowingly because these researchers are out there working without any pay.
I mean, their researchers are trying to find the truth.
But I don't think they realize that in a hypnotic state, a person is very liable to link telepathically with the person who is hypnotizing them.
And they can pull out things from the hypnotist's mind that would please the hypnotist if they said it.
And they do not know that they are pleasing the hypnotist.
They do not know that this is a process that's being used, but it does happen.
And that is why I would say that a lot of researchers get a lot of hybrid baby cases, you know, a lot of genetic interference cases because this is their own theory and the abductees read it telepathically.
I don't do hypnosis anymore because I realize that it is too fraught with failure.
The thing is, when I did do it, or when I did take them to a hypnotherapist in the areas, we agreed that all we wanted was what the person thought was in their own mind.
And there was nothing whatsoever that we would feed them either consciously or unconsciously.
How much credence would you give to the use of lie detectors?
For example, Travis Walton and a whole group along with him, Travis Walton was abducted, and they took two separate lie detector tests with regard to what they had in conscious memory about their experience.
I think that maybe if the person wants to take a lie detector test and they have a very expert person doing the work that it might prove useful to them, I say go ahead if they want to use it.
But I do want to say that I know Travis Walton personally, and I think that he might be an exception to the abductions taking place in altered consciousness because there were five or six of his buddies who saw him struck by this UFO-type vehicle.
Now, this may be one true case of an actual UFO abducting a human being, but also they did not see him taken aboard.
And I don't know what happened after this, but when he said he found himself aboard an apparent ship, he was able to resist initially the creatures who met the criteria of grade.
And my question for Ann was, I'm sensing some kind of possible connection here.
Just recently I watched a video tape produced by Bob Larson Ministries.
And this tape consisted of a discussion of two members of a religion that follow the so-called left-hand path.
They were members of the Temple of Set.
And these two members state that they absolutely practice black magic, Satanism, etc., and are physically able to alter themselves into other altered physical entities and dimensions.
They also claim that there are very powerful, prominent persons involved in this so-called religion, the Temple of Set.
And I'm just wondering, is there any connection here that these could be some form of the ETs or some of the beings that are conducting these, if I might, let me take your question, Temple of Set or other religious takes on the whole UFO alien abduction business.
And an awful lot of religions view any of this as demonic in source.
If they mean demonic as a devil, you know, devils, Satan, fallen angels, I don't agree with them.
If they use demonic in the term that the Europeans use it, as an order of creation that is mischievous, harassing, but not devils, but something in between, like the jinns of the Muslims or the Celtic fairy folk, I would say that they could be demonic, but I would have to be in Europe to use that word so that they would know what I mean.
I think they are a separate order of creation, a type of rational creature that either shares the earth with us or is on a hidden plane which intersects our own space-time.
I've had very interesting experiences in my life, and some could even fit with a possibility of the type of ufology that has gone on, and also with any kind of myths about, you know, people or things stealing babies from cradles or whatever.
However, I have a problem with the self-hypnosis question where a person might say to themselves, oh yes, I have been abducted by aliens.
And in stating that or in accepting that over and over, literally hypnotize themselves into that reality as opposed to leaving oneself open to learning another lesson, as it were, or learning another possibility.
When you speak with people, are there certain people that you might feel have convinced themselves more than they're convincing you or have and literally believe it, I mean, I believe this is that person's reality.
Yes, it's either that they have read books or met researchers who have convinced them that these indeed are extraterrestrials who are abducting them for various reasons.
That's why I always let the person draw their own conclusions as to what had happened to them.
And most of the people I work with now choose not to be hypnotized.
Yes, and also that, Anne, you mentioned the Celtic folk and the fairy folk and the gods of old.
I'd like to hear a little more, if I could, and then I'll hang up of your opinion of the fact that have the myths masked the aliens or has the aliens masked the myths?
I believe that there is truth in the myths and in the folklore.
If you go to Ireland and talk to people in the western counties and gain their confidence, they will tell you stories of interaction with fairies even today.
And now they're more sophisticated and they do not present themselves as believing in fairies now, but they will show you fairy rings in the middle of a meadow that has been protected for hundreds of years.
Nobody dares plow it up because they fear that that is the realm of the fairy and they will get into trouble and the fairies will make trouble for them.
Maybe, Anne, from the same realm, in recent years, there was this creature, mythical perhaps, called the chupacabra.
And it, otherwise known as the goatsucker, I think that's what it means in Spanish chupacabra.
It began in Puerto Rico, moved into South America, Central America, and then finally into America itself, and then suddenly stopped.
But if you go to Mexico to this very day, Anne, I can assure you, while people up here might chuckle about this creature and make light of it, if you go into Mexico, nobody there makes light of it.
It's what uh probably would frighten the people uh, the uh, the human beings it's.
Perhaps these um, interdimensional creatures took that form because they knew that it would frighten and startle the human beings that it interacted with.
Well, that kind of goes along with what we were just discussing, in a strange sort of way.
unidentified
Yeah, and I believe I was abducted from a car and while I was driving late at night and uh, I believe it was me from the future when uh built a time machine and I came back to the past to show myself how to build the time machine in the future, really.
And i've been stuck in this loop and the only way to break the loop is to talk about it and and and.
There are nine resistance techniques which have been described to me by 70 resistors.
The first is mental struggle, to recognize that you are paralyzed because of these creatures, because you either see them or feel their presence.
You struggle until you can move one little part of your body, and then generally the paralysis, the total paralysis, will break all over your body, and the presences or the entities that have materialized will vanish from sight, and you come to full waking consciousness.
But you must be aware of why you are paralyzed and how to break it.
The second is physical struggle, which simply is to fight back with whatever you have, your hands, a gun, whatever.
If you break the altered state in which the scenario is occurring, you're home free.
But I must warn that a combination of techniques is very important because these creatures may go away for maybe a year or so if you use mental struggle or righteous anger against them, but they come back stronger with new techniques, new shapes, new scenarios which are more pleasing or more powerful.
It shows the creature shredding on the right side.
And strangely, the left hand in the computer enhancement, the left hand, which was in shadows in the picture that the Baptist minister presented to me, when computer enhanced, it shows the entire left arm and it's holding some kind of bag.
Now, we made fun of that, of course.
We were delighted to see that appear.
But then I see where there is a case in Britain about the Ilkley Moor creature.
And it, too, was photographed by a policeman in England.
And there was some suspicion that perhaps there was missing time there too.
But his creature, photographed on the moor, is also holding some kind of bag in its left hand.
Now, it's just extremely exciting to find stuff like that.
Because there are legends from Celtic fairy lore which describe something called bag men, which were of a race which were not human.
And they were supposed to have built up Ireland from the sea by carrying bags of soil and rocks and boulders to build up this island in the sea.
I've seen things long distance, but nothing this close.
And it really fired me up, and I started doing some research.
And the first thing you come across, it seems, is alien abduction.
So I'm really fascinated with hearing about her book.
She's talking about the hypnosis part, believing that it's not truly accurate way of getting information.
What would you recommend, Ann, as an alternative?
Because I'm dealing with a lot of people online that I'm talking to talking about their abductions, and that's why most of them seem to have come across some of their memories, retrieve their memories.
A lot of them are truly traumatized by what has happened to them or puzzled by missing time that they don't know what has happened to them.
Have several interviews with them.
Let them clear the whole plate, tell the whole story, all their worries, their trauma, in a conscious, in conscious interviews.
And then if you wish or if they wish very judicious hypnotic regressions with a true expert, a hypnotherapist if you can find one.
But please do not go beyond two sessions because the repeated sessions harden the memories that surface during hypnosis, including the confabulated memories.
Because most of the top-profile researchers contend that there is nothing that abductees can do about being abducted, that no resistance techniques work.
They've only tried anger, you know, things like that.
But that the abductees are at the mercy of these entities and nothing can be done about it.
Well, I say that we are Americans as a race, and we do not fold that easily.
If there is any way that we can try to get rid of these creatures, whatever they are, we should try it.
In other words, this caller had a linear awareness of time.
I get what you're saying.
But what he did say about the animals was interesting.
Yes, it was.
Are there any cases that you're aware of, Anne, in which animals in the vicinity of the person being abducted, whether they be domestic cats, dogs, or whatever, were also affected by the abduction?
Well, in one of the Tuhunga Canyon contact abductions, the dog and the cat, owned by the two young girls, young women, were hiding under the stove when they found themselves back in the cabin.
Or when the passage of time had ended and they were trying to find out what happened.
Their dog and cat were hovering, huddled under the stove, quivering.
That is the contention that surrounds these creatures that are spoken of in folklore and in philosophy and religious writings by every major culture of the world throughout the millennia.
There's the jinns of the Muslim world.
They're mentioned in the Quran.
Every sixth page, there's a mention of the jinns.
You know, they exist right along with man.
The Celtic fairies, they've existed for 2,000 years.
And he was of the opinion that the creatures that the Muslim called jinns and the medieval people called incubi were a rational order of creation that existed on earth alongside humans, but on a hidden plane, and that they were the so-called gods of the ancients.
I was wondering if you possibly thought, given the fact that there are parallel theory of parallel universes, and given the fact that, given the fact that the subject's mind is in a paranormal state, if he's actually rippling back and forth between the dimension and seeing different variations of the same being in different forms.
Well, of course, the parallel universe, I would have to have that proven to me, you see, before I could answer that.
Good for you.
The research I have done in philosophical and religious writings about these creatures indicates that they do have the facility to shapeshift, to change to any guise they want, which will either frighten or appeal to the person that they're interacting with.
Well, a lot of the people that I have talked to indicate that their abductions were in an out-of-body state.
They know what out-of-body state feels like because they have done it, or they can bring it on at will.
And they say that the abduction was done out-of-body because as they went through the window, they looked back at the bed, and there was their body on the bed.
Well, now, see, that's really interesting, Anne, because a lot of people who study and have written books about OBEs will tell you loudly and again and again, oh, nothing bad can happen while you're out of your body.
And if anything bad begins to happen, boom, you snap right back in and you're protected.
I never go to sleep with my closet door open, ever.
Ever since I was a little boy, first remember, I always closed my closet or cry for my closet to be closed before I go to bed, and I still do that today.
Closet monsters.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ann Druffel and Art Bell.
Would there be any correlation of, say, the UFO abductions, UFO sightings, as far as what happened in Roswell or whatever happened before Roswell or after, that these guys from another dimension or whatever you want to call it, we may have prisoners of theirs here.
And I wanted to ask Anne, in all of her research, if she had ran across people or interviews with people who, out of nowhere, who'd had no interest in UFOs, if all of a sudden something triggered, like someone asked a question and a comment was made, like a pre-programmed comment, and they both went out and a UFO appeared.
There's a woman called Stella Lansing that has been followed by a psychiatrist who's a UFO researcher for years and years, and she can go out and take a picture of a UFO in a park hovering over a man's head.
And no one sees the UFO, but it comes out on her film.
This may be related in some way to that.
But Stella Lansing can do this at will, whereas this happened once to you.
But see, that would suggest, that really would suggest that she is projecting this.
And when you get into the area of ghosts and poltergeist and that sort of thing, the researchers, the serious researchers, will tell you that young teenage girls are particularly prone to having these things occur around them.
They have raging hormones and raging emotions and that this kind of intense emotion and energy from a young lady produces these kinds of things around them.
Now, why wouldn't that necessarily apply to ufology?
Well, it would because there is a strong psychic element in ufology, straight down the line, from the physical craft up to the abductors, whatever they are.
And if I were to back you up against the wall, and I were to say of all the UFO reports and of all the abduction reports and all the rest of it, how much of it do you think falls into what you just laid out with regard to the Meyer case?
We really live in a time where every photograph, no matter what its source, is suspect because we live in an age now where, of course, anything can be manipulated, anything can be done.
And it's kind of a shame in a way because there was a day when that really wasn't the case.
I suppose you could get a double exposure or something, but basically photographic evidence was thought of as, you know, rather convincing.
And I think I'm echoing what a previous caller had told you down here in the Bible Bill, that if that happens to us, we just shut up and be real quiet about it.
And I learned my lesson because the psychiatrist, the first thing he asked me was, did I do drugs?
And look, you talked about shapeshifters, and this was extremely interesting to me because I have had experience with being visited since I was about 10 years old.
And I've seen three, four, now four different creatures so far.
And the one interesting night was there was a lizard creature that came in.
And the interesting thing that you said was, you know, how you can make them go away.
And then I had the little wrinkly guy, and I got really mad at him because he had his little probe out, and they always seemed to go through the nose or somewhere like that.
And I actually swore at him and said a very bad word.
Ley Lines and Abductions00:07:31
unidentified
And he actually ran out of the room.
And then at the end of my bed was a very tall guy with like a dark hood on.
Very tall.
Yes.
But not a Nor, I don't know if he was Nordic or anything because he was just dark.
And then I kind of apologized to them because the guy in the dark thing said, you don't realize what we've done for you.
You don't realize.
And then the next thing I knew, I was out on my deck and they were both pointing to the moon.
And the jinn of the Koran is has eight characteristics in common with our American UFO abductor, the the UFO entity.
So that that's what makes me and other researchers think that they are all the same type of being but presenting themselves in different guises in different cultures.
But don't you know, if it happens, again, don't let them make you feel guilty or be led into further error.
They're evil in that they delight in harassing and traumatizing human beings.
They are not evil essentially.
Okay.
Because according to the Quran, they were created like human beings with their own moral code.
But these the ones that are harassing human beings and presenting themselves as extraterrestrial visitors are stepping outside the limits that the Creator set out for them.
I'm in contact with a Muslim who is a veterinary in Malaysia.
I don't know how close that is to Japan.
But apparently there is a strong Muslim population in Malaysia.
And this man is very interested in the fact that there are no abductions reported in Malaysia.
And he thinks maybe the persons who are contacted just assume that the contactor, the abductor, is a jinn, which is firmly in the Muslim culture and described in the Quran, which is the Muslim Bible.
And so they don't bother to report it as an abduction by a UFO entity.
It's something that they know what it is.
It's a jinn.
But then my correspondent in Malaysia also says that in Malaysia there is another type of abduction by supernatural beings known locally as the Bunians, that's B-U-N-I-A-N.
And local folks believe that these beings from a parallel unseen world sometimes abduct humans temporarily and also steal babies from the womb.
So you see, that's another culture with other types of abducting creatures.
unidentified
I like to have a style of abducting in different cultures, like how they appear and all that.
They adjust to our approach, our prejudices, our...
Yes, I understand.
First time calling a line, you're on the air with Andruffel and R. Bell High.
unidentified
Yes.
I was wondering if you might have heard of something similar to what I've experienced.
I heard this very, very loud sound.
Almost sounded like paper tearing, amplified thousands of watts, echoing throughout the house.
It was like a sh-sh, sh, shh, shh, shh.
And after I heard that sound, I heard voices downstairs in my house.
And I heard somebody walking up the stairwell.
And I got scared.
My heartbeat started pumping.
And I think that these beings were looking for something in the house.
Because the next morning, all these things in the house were disturbed.
And the VCR was one of those old pop-up ones.
And it was running while the thing was popped up, which it can't do and doesn't do.
And the doll case was open.
Several things have been looked through.
And about two weeks earlier, before this occurred, I heard a very loud sonic boom, almost like something had maybe crashed near the house.
And several nights after I heard that sonic boom, my dad woke me up at like 2 or 3 in the morning and showed me and my mom this UFO that was hanging out over these trees.
Oh, boy.
And the really strange thing is, is I took a photo of the house while it was under construction.
It was out in West Virginia.
And it showed up a UFO in the background, but you couldn't see it with the naked eye.
Now, I've heard of similar things on ball lightning research in Russia where they could take photos and the ball lightning would show up on a photo, but it wouldn't show up on the human eye.
But I was wondering about that sound because it was so eerie.
Well, the only thing I can suggest, the noises you heard in your house, the Muslims who have this strong belief in jinns, and jinns are very similar to our American UFO abductors.
Hi, I was listening to the show last night, and they had Robert on, who wrote a book.
I guess he has some sort of fair coming up in the San Francisco area.
And he kept talking about, he was making a lot of references to the Bible and to the Malchester Dicks and to the Palladians.
And then the host said something about the Vulcans.
And then tonight you talk about the Jinns.
And then you mentioned earlier about the Puerto Rican Chupacamer.
Chupicombers.
Yes.
And what I'm finding out is it seems to me that, I don't know, at this point, I sort of need sort of an etymological breakdown of what exactly, like, well, you talk about jinns, and of course, if I think of gin, I immediately think of, you know, the Scottish booze.
The jinn is a member of a corporate group of rational beings called Al-Jinn, A-L, hyphen, J-I-N-N, and that's the way they're described in the Koran, in the chapter about them.
They are irrational creatures that live together with mankind, but hidden on the earth plane.
I actually, I'm so very glad to have a chance to speak with your guest because there's something happened to me about 40 years ago that's just absolutely haunted me ever since.
And I'm just sitting here almost a cold chill trying to even talk about it.
It was before I really knew anything about UFOs.
Shortly after this happened to me, it was when that happened to the two gentlemen in Pascagoula when they were taken aboard that craft.
Oh, yes.
And I live just about maybe 20, 30 miles from where that happened.
But at the time, I knew nothing about it.
I was just going about my own little life.
But I awoke one morning, and it was so strange.
It was as though I hadn't even been asleep.
And I had, I always, you know, I wear clothes, you know, pajamas, long night gowns, whatever.
And I awoke with no clothes.
And I was, you know, just so like I was out of place.
And this is something I've never told anyone, not even my husband, my children, no one.
And I can remember just fumbling around trying to find, you know, where am I, what's happened, where are my clothes?
And I was out in the yard.
And how they got there, I will never know.
And all I could remember was that when I went to bed, it was as though the ceiling of my room was no ceiling, and though I could see the stars and like a very large, bright star above the house.
Well, if you wonder about things in the past like that, which are very strange, I would suggest that you try to dream information.
Have you ever tried to do that?
unidentified
Well, no, but since you mentioned dream, sometime after that, I don't know if it was a dream.
It seemed so real, it didn't seem like a dream.
I found myself in an area which, a little piece of land on the water, and I was getting into a craft, a round craft, with two beings in it.
And the next thing I knew, I was way out in space, and I could look out and I could see things, you know, like the stars and all.
And suddenly we were on a body of some sort, and it was all gray, like you would imagine the moon would be.
And it was all gray and pitted, and no grass, no trees, no nothing.
And we're up on a hill, and looking down, it was like there was a being beside me, like a guide, and was showing me down below there was like a little village, and there was a dog, and there were some people there.
And that's a very interesting suggestion you gave her.
In other words, to actually request of your own subconscious or to make a conscious wish, I guess, to your subconscious to produce a dream to answer your question, right?
Yes, to have a pencil and paper by your bedside when you go to bed, requesting your subconscious to give you information about what you wonder about, either in a dream or in, if it is reality, to let you know it's reality.
You know, Anne, there's something that I really would love to know.
I'm sure you don't have the answer to it, but it is true that if you have a dream, no matter how vivid the dream, you wake up as though you're still in it.
It's so vivid you could give every detail, and then within minutes, as you drink your first cup of coffee or tea or whatever, and you have a cigarette, if you smoke, you shouldn't, whatever it is you're doing, the details of it fade to the point where if you've not written it down, it'll be gone within the hour.
But if you will dream for lucidity, ask yourself to become aware that you are either dreaming or that you are having this experience so that you will know whether or not it's an experience in an altered state or a dream.
And since you are a researcher, since you're a researcher, somebody like that who would have a story that he could cooperate with other people and other people who want to report things to you, is there a way to get hold of you?
You've been, Arch, you've been presenting me as having 42 years experience in UFOs and abductions.
I wanted to point out that the first 17 years were simply, I mean, sightings of physical craft in the sky and landed on the earth with little or no interaction with any occupants.
But then 16 years of abduction work beginning in 1973 because that's when the abduction phenomenon first became proliferated.
And then 10 years in resistance work, because I thought that if we could figure out why some people could resist alien abduction, this would give us a clue as to what these creatures really were.
Well, during your years of research, Anne, there's been a parallel occurrence that I should ask you about, and that is what's raging in Great Britain again this year, and that's these crop circles, which began as very simple circles and year by year became more and more complex and larger, taking up sometimes as much as 10 acres.
No, except that I would just love to see some and go into the middle of them and experience what they call an altered state that some researchers can experience in the middle or to hear sounds in there.
I'd love to research them on site, but I really have no nothing that I can offer to it because I've never researched them.
It sounds now with the amount of these type of experiences that seem to have been accelerating within our lifetime and within this century as far as we have record of.
I wonder about Peter's theory in that he speaks of the apocalyptic time, if you will, for lack of a better term, as the rejoining of all of the souls through reincarnation that have been split off through the spirit and of them trying or re-entering the body and causing a great deal of confusion.
And I can't help but wonder, based on his theory, reading the entire book, he puts forth quite a plausible theory in joining the philosophies of East and West and making them work together, in that perhaps these quote-unquote abduction experiences as we come into what appears prophetically to be the apocalyptic time.
Of course, they've been saying that for how many centuries.
Could it be possibly the soul pockets or the disembodied souls that may be starting to return and trying to rejoin with that conscious spirit in the body that it is now inhabiting?
Anyway, some years ago, I was at a large festival, music festival, whatever, and I had an experience where someone had mentioned, like, what is that?
And I looked up, and it was like looking at, like, a cloaking device or something like this from something, you know, and I saw this violet light, and it came down over me, and it like absorbed me, and I felt like I was starting to lift up, but I resisted it, and I stopped, and it moved off of me and started moving away and went over above my tent, and I went to my tent, just like drawn to it.
And my drum was in there, and I went to my drum and I drummed, and I was like communicating with this whatever it was up above, like the state of us, right?
And it was like a complete understanding, and I felt like something was about to come out of the woods at me.
And I stopped and I said, Please don't, don't even come to me right now because I cannot deal with that.
My mentality can't deal with that.
Let me go forth and gain some knowledge about all of us, and then later you come back to me.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is Ann Druffel on abductions and ufology in general, a subject that we haven't really covered in a while.
For those of you who will get the second hour of the program repeated here in a few moments, I did what I finally said I would do, and I, because the story broke, and I knew it was going to, of what happened and why I went off the air and what occurred and the circumstances surrounding it.
If you have any information that would add to the information that my attorneys already have, I would appreciate very much your assistance in that regard.
If you know anything about the first or second case that seemed to be upon me, so I sincerely appreciate your being here tonight, and we'll be back tomorrow night with Wayne Green.