Art Bell - 19990601_Art-Bell-SIT-Ann-Druffel-Ufology-Alien-Abductions
Aired: 1999-06-01
Duration: 02:31:37


=== Streaming Video Announcements (03:21) ===

[00:00:11]  Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:00:15]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from June 1st, 1999.
[00:00:19]  From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across this great land of ours.
[00:00:26]  From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, exotic in the west, to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, exotic in the East, South into South America, North all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
[00:00:42]  Thanks to broadcast.com and of course the genius of Intel Corporation streaming video.
[00:00:48]  Yes, you can go to my website and get the G2 player.
[00:00:52]  Then come back and simply click on streaming video and you'll see the show underway.
[00:01:00]  All right, I have a number of announcements to make.
[00:01:04]  Not actually a number, a couple.
[00:01:06]  One is, ladies and gentlemen, I have been promising this for a couple of years now.
[00:01:13]  A little less than a couple of years, I guess.
[00:01:16]  And I have delivered to my internet audience the reason that I left the air in October of 98.
[00:01:24]  And tonight, in the next hour, I'm going to detail at least some degree to my radio audience why I left the air.
[00:01:37]  I promised I would do that and I'm going to follow through.
[00:01:41]  So there you have it.
[00:01:43]  That'll be coming up next hour.
[00:01:48]  In the meantime, we've got a very great deal to do tonight.
[00:01:51]  I do want to announce, though, before we get off to it, that there is going to be a book signing for the source, you know, the book that Brad Steiger and myself authored.
[00:02:05]  I really should say that Brad Steiger, you know, I did say that in myself, Brad's name should be first.
[00:02:11]  He did more work than I did, that's for sure.
[00:02:15]  But there's going to be a book signing, and my co-author Brad Steiger is going to be at the Ridgehaven Barnes and Noble bookstore at 13131 Ridge Dale Drive in Minnetonka, Minnesota.
[00:02:35]  That's a suburb of Minneapolis.
[00:02:37]  That's where Brad's going to be.
[00:02:39]  Minnetaca, Minnesota.
[00:02:42]  I hope I've got that right, don't I?
[00:02:43]  Minnetaca.
[00:02:44]  I believe I do.
[00:02:45]  It'll be Friday, June 4th at 7 in the evening.
[00:02:51]  And everybody who goes over and sees Brad and gets a signed edition of the source will also receive a free autographed photograph of me.
[00:03:04]  So it's going to be obviously very well attended.
[00:03:07]  We suggest you get there early.
[00:03:10]  There are, I will add, only a limited number of photographs available.
[00:03:16]  So what can I say?

=== Quarter Mile Encounter (15:51) ===

[00:03:20]  Get over there early.
[00:03:21]  Once again, Brad Steiger in Minnetonka, Minnesota, just outside of Minneapolis, Friday, this coming Friday, June 4th at 7 in the evening.
[00:03:33]  And so you'll be able to get an autographed copy and get an autographed photograph of myself.
[00:03:38]  Something you can throw darts at or do whatever you wish with.
[00:03:42]  In a moment, we've got Peter Davenport with an update this hour from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
[00:03:51]  And boy, does he have an update.
[00:03:52]  We also have a live witness.
[00:03:57]  Of course, he's live.
[00:03:58]  Live.
[00:04:00]  He'll be here live, let's put it that way.
[00:04:02]  Dead witnesses don't talk, do they?
[00:04:07]  So we've got quite a report coming up for you in a few moments with Peter Davenport and this live, as well as a live witness.
[00:04:17]  We'll be right back from time to time course.
[00:04:40]  We have appeared on board on program because Peter Davenport runs the UFO reporting center in Seattle, Washington.
[00:04:47]  And what a job he does.
[00:04:50]  It's a kind of a seven-day, 24-hour day type job if something breaks.
[00:04:55]  A very stressful job, indeed.
[00:04:57]  And so back from a little small vacation to kind of alleviate some of that stress and with new information is Peter Davenport from Seattle.
[00:05:07]  Peter, hi.
[00:05:07]  Hi, Art.
[00:05:08]  Welcome back.
[00:05:09]  Thank you very much.
[00:05:10]  Always a pleasure to be here.
[00:05:12]  A lot going on.
[00:05:16]  I'm delighted to be back because we have some really very interesting cases that have come in over the last, oh, roughly two weeks or so.
[00:05:24]  I think I'm going to focus on the last week, actually.
[00:05:27]  Really?
[00:05:27]  During this hour.
[00:05:29]  A lot has gone on, and I think because of that just marvelous interview you had with Jose Escamila, what was it, about a week or ten days ago, I found it absolutely riveting.
[00:05:43]  I think in part because when I listen to other UFO researchers talk about their respective subjects, and Jose is very good in this respect, in respect to presenting data and corroborating what he says, and good heavens, he's provided videotape.
[00:06:01]  You can't do much better than that.
[00:06:03]  I thought what I would like to do is start with a really seemingly very dramatic case that occurred very close to home here over Seattle, specifically over, it seems, Mercer Island or just west of there, and share with our listeners some of the things that we've been getting along the lines of, for lack of any better term, rods.
[00:06:24]  I find when I listen to other researchers, I compare the data that has come into the center with what they are finding, whether they be from this country or another country or what have you.
[00:06:36]  And as Jose was speaking, I mentally filtered through some of the more interesting and seemingly inexplicable cases that have come to us.
[00:06:45]  This one that I'd like to focus on here during the first few minutes of our program tonight occurred just six days ago, recently, Wednesday, the 26th of May, 1999.
[00:06:58]  It occurred about 1 o'clock, I think was the time of the sighting.
[00:07:01]  If you'd permit me, I'd like to start with just about a 40-second audio cut of the message that we first got on our answering service, and then perhaps we can go to our guests tonight.
[00:07:14]  I always like to share with our listeners the freshest, the latest, the most first-hand experience I can provide them.
[00:07:23]  All right, we're about to hear from Scott Benson.
[00:07:24]  Now, I take it that what you're about to play is Scott Benson when he first called the reporting center.
[00:07:32]  Is that correct?
[00:07:32]  That is correct.
[00:07:33]  About a 40-second cut of what first alerted us to this sighting, and then perhaps we can go to our guest.
[00:07:39]  All right, very good.
[00:07:40]  Here we go.
[00:07:41]  I had a UFO sighting Wednesday afternoon about 1 p.m., Wednesday 26th of May, westbound I-90 between Bellevue approaching Mercer Island.
[00:07:53]  Cylinder, a silvery cylinder was accelerating in front of my vehicle fairly close, less than half a mile, maybe a third of a mile, and it appeared about an inch and a half long.
[00:08:04]  She held a ballpoint pan at arm's length, that shaft of the pan, about that minute, about an inch and a half long.
[00:08:10]  Bright blue sky, high contrast, no tail visible, no wing visible.
[00:08:14]  Obviously, it was not a plane.
[00:08:16]  Could have seen such any structures with such high contrast and closeness.
[00:08:22]  That's what first came in.
[00:08:24]  And of course, all right, that was on, in other words, he put that on your answering machine?
[00:08:28]  That was the message that first came to us.
[00:08:31]  Okay.
[00:08:31]  And I called him shortly after we had received this message.
[00:08:34]  He sounded very bright, very precise.
[00:08:37]  He seemed to have a very good memory, recollection of what he had seen.
[00:08:41]  All of these are very good signs with regard to getting a very precise, high-quality follow-up report.
[00:08:48]  Well, I've talked to Scott on a couple of occasions now.
[00:08:51]  Every time I talk to him, I become more impressed with his background, with his ability to look at something and register what he had seen.
[00:08:59]  When I called him tonight to get final permission to use his voice over the air, it occurred to me that it might be fun to have him on the air.
[00:09:07]  And if we could, what I'd like to do is go to our guest tonight and have him describe for our listeners what it was he saw just six days ago over Mercer Island, very close to Seattle, not five miles.
[00:09:20]  That's absolutely excellent.
[00:09:21]  Because I have some questions.
[00:09:22]  It's wonderful to be able to follow up for a change.
[00:09:26]  So here is Scott Benson.
[00:09:28]  Scott, welcome to the program.
[00:09:30]  Thank you, Art.
[00:09:32]  Thanks for coming on, Scott.
[00:09:33]  You know, not a lot of people will give their name and then come on and tell this kind of story.
[00:09:39]  They just somehow they're too shy or they're too worried about what other people will think.
[00:09:44]  And so I want to thank you for coming forward, number one.
[00:09:48]  I'm glad to.
[00:09:49]  It's the first sighting I've had in my 58 years, and I'm not shy about it.
[00:09:54]  Good.
[00:09:55]  Well, then, if you would, just go ahead and redo, if you would, adding any details what we just heard on that little snippet of tape when you made the report.
[00:10:06]  Go ahead and lay it out for us again and add anything you didn't get in.
[00:10:11]  Yes.
[00:10:12]  As I said, I was traveling westbound on the freeway, approaching Mercer Island, and I was surrounded by traffic at about 60 miles an hour.
[00:10:23]  And I was checking my mirror left to right.
[00:10:26]  And as I brought my gaze back straight ahead, after it was less than a second being not looking straight ahead, the thing was there in front of me.
[00:10:39]  So that raises one question: the possibility that it simply popped into our space-time from someplace else.
[00:10:47]  All right.
[00:10:49]  Was it either accelerating or decelerating with respect to your speed when you saw it?
[00:10:55]  It was going directly at right angles to my direction.
[00:11:00]  Oh.
[00:11:01]  It was angled up at about 30 degrees.
[00:11:04]  So it was going up.
[00:11:05]  And it started out just at a slight elevation as I was looking straight ahead.
[00:11:11]  But it was pointing, tilted upward at about 30 degrees, and then it began to move lower left or from straight ahead to my upper right.
[00:11:22]  I had to lean forward over the steering wheel to follow it.
[00:11:25]  Right.
[00:11:26]  And within four to five seconds, it was obscured by the roof of my truck.
[00:11:33]  Okay, something you gave a rough size.
[00:11:38]  Yes.
[00:11:40]  Which I thought was good.
[00:11:41]  But without the reference of understanding how high up you think this might be, it's hard to judge what the size of the vehicle might have been.
[00:11:49]  How high do you think it might have been?
[00:11:53]  Height, as I said, it started out very low, just slightly above the tree line.
[00:11:59]  Mainly, I was interested in how far away it was, because that would give me an accurate scale for its length.
[00:12:09]  And I've done some little simple geometric calculations.
[00:12:15]  Assuming instead of an inch and a half, I'm thinking about it the last few days, I've got an aluminum rod here, which I took off of a wind chime.
[00:12:24]  Right.
[00:12:24]  And subtending one inch of that aluminum rod, holding it at arm's length, about 30 inches from my eyes, that sets up a ratio of one inch to 30 inches.
[00:12:36]  Then I just do simple proportions using that same ratio.
[00:12:41]  And if the object were at 200 yards from me, it would have been 30 feet long.
[00:12:47]  Okay.
[00:12:48]  And other proportions, if it were out at a quarter mile, that's 440 yards, it would have been 66 feet.
[00:12:56]  And the final calculation, if the object were a half mile, it would have been 132 feet.
[00:13:02]  And what is your best guess about distance?
[00:13:05]  I don't want you to say anything you don't want to say.
[00:13:07]  My best guess, because of the extreme sharpness of all four edges, there was no haziness.
[00:13:15]  I saw all the corners were squared off at right angles.
[00:13:19]  There was no fuzziness about it at all.
[00:13:21]  My guess is no more than a quarter mile.
[00:13:24]  More than a quarter mile.
[00:13:25]  Yeah.
[00:13:26]  Which would mean at that scale about 66 feet long.
[00:13:30]  Pretty good size.
[00:13:31]  And it was cylindrical?
[00:13:36]  It was.
[00:13:38]  Either that or I was looking at an exact flat rectangular surface.
[00:13:43]  And again, it moved up, and then so as to delineate this from any sort of launch or anything like that, it moved then to the right, you said, as well.
[00:13:54]  Along about a 30-degree path from straight ahead to upper right.
[00:14:00]  Any guess as to its speed as it left your view?
[00:14:06]  It was just the angular speed was from straight ahead to about swept about a six-degree arc of the sky in about five seconds.
[00:14:16]  That's angular speed.
[00:14:18]  Yes.
[00:14:20]  And in terms of another thing, there was no shadow on the bottom edge.
[00:14:27]  If it had been a cylindrical surface.
[00:14:29]  It was a clear, sunny day, right?
[00:14:31]  A clear sunny day.
[00:14:32]  The sun was above it and me, kind of shining down upon it.
[00:14:38]  So in other words, it was generating in some way its own.
[00:14:41]  It seemed to be self-luminous, luminescence.
[00:14:44]  Self-luminous because there was no shadow along the bottom edge of it.
[00:14:47]  Gotcha.
[00:14:48]  It was clearly luminous and sharp and bright along the bottom edge.
[00:14:54]  All right.
[00:14:54]  Peter, any additional things that I should be asking that I'm not, that you would?
[00:14:58]  I think the background of the witness is very important, highly educated.
[00:15:02]  It is clear from his speech that he's very eloquent, uses words precisely.
[00:15:07]  That is always a good sign from my vantage point.
[00:15:11]  Uses technical terms, technical processes.
[00:15:15]  I would say the quality of the witness, the quality of his rendition of what he allegedly saw is every bit as dramatic as the actual sighting.
[00:15:25]  You've never seen one of these before?
[00:15:27]  I never have.
[00:15:28]  And the mystery continued the day after that.
[00:15:35]  I hadn't had a chance to tell Peter this, but I was out north of Seattle in a friend's house cutting her grass again about 1 o'clock in the afternoon,
[00:15:46]  and suddenly there was this thumping or the sound of a huge helicopter, and I looked up and there was a huge black helicopter very slowly cruising over and then it disappeared and then it went silent again.
[00:16:07]  And that huge vehicle had been approaching apparently in silence and then to attract my attention went out of the silent mode and then back into it once it had passed over.
[00:16:22]  So you're implying it wanted you to notice it.
[00:16:25]  It wanted me to notice it for some reason.
[00:16:28]  And that definitely was an identified flying object.
[00:16:33]  Whether these two events are connected, I don't know, but I just noticed the very curious juxtaposition since I'd never seen a black helicopter before in my life either.
[00:16:43]  You're probably lucky you didn't see a light plane dragging something behind it saying, don't go on the Art Bell show.
[00:16:52]  Well, that's amazing, Scott.
[00:16:53]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:55]  How do you feel about it now?
[00:16:56]  I had my own sighting, and when I had it, I was in shock, kind of a shock for a while.
[00:17:01]  And then I began to think about it and talk about it with my wife.
[00:17:04]  How did it register on your psyche?
[00:17:08]  Kind of, there was like this, well, finally, I've seen something that I really can't identify.
[00:17:15]  And I don't know what it is, but it definitely fits the definition of UFO.
[00:17:21]  It's unidentified in terms of my experience.
[00:17:25]  After my experience, I said it's one of two things.
[00:17:28]  It's either from out there or it's technology that we have that we don't have the slightest conception of.
[00:17:37]  And I guess you're reduced pretty much to that choice, too, aren't you?
[00:17:40]  Yes, it's a sense of awe, wonderment, not fear, but it's really a sense of curiosity to find out what was it, why is it there?
[00:17:50]  Do we have anything to do with it?
[00:17:52]  Or we, meaning the secret government.
[00:17:57]  So these are questions, and most of my friends will listen to me.
[00:18:01]  They'll tease me a little bit about it, but that's all right.
[00:18:06]  But, I mean, did you have any sort of post-traumatic stress that came from it where you sort of self-examined every little aspect of it and thought about it again and again and again?
[00:18:19]  Did I really see this?
[00:18:20]  Could I have been wrong?
[00:18:22]  I found myself, I've made a large entry in my journal describing it.
[00:18:28]  Today I did further calculations about the various distances and reflecting on the likelihood that it was self-luminescent because of the lack of shadows on it.
[00:18:40]  Well, you know, Scott, all I can say is welcome to the club.
[00:18:45]  Yeah.
[00:18:46]  I think I'm now part of the anointed, I guess, who've seen beyond the veil of something.

=== Proof of Phenomenon (11:35) ===

[00:18:56]  I'm not sure what we're seeing into, but.
[00:18:58]  Well, look, I appreciate your articulate description, and I particularly appreciate your guts to come on the air and tell us all what you saw.
[00:19:07]  My pleasure.
[00:19:08]  Scott, thanks a million.
[00:19:09]  That's Scott Benson, folks, and Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle will be back in a moment.
[00:19:17]  Well, there you have it.
[00:19:19]  Welcome to the club, Scott, the club that millions of Americans belong to.
[00:19:25]  Those who have seen things for which there is no present contemporary explanation.
[00:19:32]  Is it ours?
[00:19:34]  Is it theirs?
[00:19:36]  Either way, from my point of view, it's a big, big story.
[00:19:41]  This is Coast to Coast AM.
[00:19:43]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:19:45]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:20:07]  Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues.
[00:20:11]  Courtesy of Premier Networks.
[00:20:13]  Top of the evening or morning to you, wherever you may be, everybody, on a ride we are with Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington.
[00:20:21]  He's got more for you coming up.
[00:20:24]  Again, I want to mention, at the top of the next hour, or for 30 minutes into the next hour, depending on how you want to look at it, I'm going to tell you why I left the air in October of 98.
[00:20:39]  I'm going to tell you exactly why.
[00:20:41]  Because the story has now broken.
[00:20:43]  I told you I would not break the story, but it's out, and so I'm going to go ahead and tell you what I know and what led up to it and all the rest of it.
[00:20:53]  That'll be the beginning of the next hour.
[00:21:15]  Peter, if we had more people who would come forward like Scott Benson, maybe the mystery would be over by now.
[00:21:21]  Yeah.
[00:21:21]  You know, this happens all the time, Art.
[00:21:23]  It's a mystery to me how something like that allegedly can take place, and there's only one report.
[00:21:31]  But it happens all the time.
[00:21:33]  One would think that if something as dramatic as what Scott described had taken place, that you'd get five or half a dozen or a dozen people on Interstate 90 calling somewhere, someone, to report what they'd seen, or at the very least, they would write it down, the time, the place, the date, what they were doing, what they saw, a little drawing of it, which is what I encourage everyone to do.
[00:21:58]  Well, you know, maybe there were others that saw it.
[00:22:00]  I mean, we don't know that not to be so.
[00:22:02]  All we know is they didn't call you.
[00:22:04]  That's correct.
[00:22:05]  That doesn't mean they didn't see it.
[00:22:06]  I mean, a lot of people are like airplane pilots.
[00:22:09]  You know, I don't want to report one of those.
[00:22:11]  Yep, that's right.
[00:22:13]  In fact, I have another audio cut here.
[00:22:17]  It comes from Memphis, Tennessee on the 10th of May, 10th of this month, Art.
[00:22:22]  You may recall, I think the last time I appeared on Coast to Coast was the 13th of May, and I played an audio cut, again from Memphis, Tennessee, of a gentleman who saw a white disc, allegedly, streak across the sky from the western sky up to the north and fly right into a cloud, and that was the last he saw of it.
[00:22:43]  Well, I had no way of knowing it, but that triggered several calls to the center here in Seattle from people in Memphis who had seen something very unusual.
[00:22:54]  Not that day, not on the 13th of May, but three days earlier, Monday, the 10th of May.
[00:23:00]  And it was equally dramatic.
[00:23:03]  It was, again, like as in Scott's case tonight, very close or actually in commercial airspace, which makes this a very, very peculiar phenomenon.
[00:23:15]  Why don't I just go to this 30-second, about 38-second cut that describes what was seen on the 10th of May, very close to the Memphis, Tennessee airport.
[00:23:26]  This is what was reported to us by a gentleman who is a very prominent public figure in Memphis.
[00:23:33]  And this is what he saw.
[00:23:35]  Here we go, about 38 seconds.
[00:23:37]  All right.
[00:23:38]  On Monday, May the 10th at 12.15 p.m. high noon, I was walking to give a final at the college where I teach, and directly above my head was a disc-shaped object traveling to the northeast,
[00:24:00]  highly reflective, and approximately half the size of an MD-11 airplane, and an MD-11 airplane landing at the airport in Methods flew about 200 yards over it.
[00:24:12]  And within some estimated 200 yards of this unexplained object is about all we can say about it, I guess.
[00:24:21]  Well, now, now there's a little more you can say.
[00:24:24]  Now, if an object got that close to a commercial airliner, while our government might not consider it to be national security, national security issue, I would.
[00:24:34]  I would certainly consider it to be a safety issue.
[00:24:38]  I mean, remember, we had reports of collisions with UFOs in Mexico.
[00:24:43]  They actually had physical damage to aircraft.
[00:24:46]  And from time to time, aircraft come down, and how do we know that there hasn't been a collision?
[00:24:52]  Yeah.
[00:24:53]  You know, my predecessor at this job, Robert Gribble, Robert J. Gribble, very well-known UFO investigator who founded the hotline in October of 1974, is a specialist in that field.
[00:25:05]  I wish I could get him on the radio someday to talk about some of the cases that he pursued very quietly, just assembling data the way any investigator has to do, and his final conclusion as to what has happened to a few airliners in the past has some very, very good evidence.
[00:25:26]  Now, I wouldn't ask you to put words in his mouth, but he was your predecessor.
[00:25:32]  Yes.
[00:25:32]  Now, did he, when he handed the mantle over to you, say that in all that time he had come to any conclusions about what's going on?
[00:25:42]  No.
[00:25:43]  No more than I have, Art.
[00:25:44]  No more than any, I think, fair-minded investigator has come to any logical, documentable conclusion on this.
[00:25:55]  We are dealing, I think the most we can say is we are clearly dealing with a phenomenon that we do not understand.
[00:26:01]  Our skeptics are correct.
[00:26:02]  We don't have proof of anything yet.
[00:26:05]  Probably we won't until we have one of these objects on a laboratory bench and we can unscrew the top of it and sort of poke around and figure out what makes it tick.
[00:26:15]  At least I think we want to do that.
[00:26:17]  Well, then there's one other thing that might be added here, and that is that we can't really be sure, can we, that we don't have one of those things somewhere on a table, as you just suggested.
[00:26:28]  Yeah, that's correct.
[00:26:30]  And your statement leads me to something that I observe is happening to me more and more often.
[00:26:37]  Whenever something occurs, I guess because of my peculiar job, I always analyze it and try to interpret it, if it's a mystery in particular, interpret it within the framework of my job, my academic interest, UFOs.
[00:26:55]  And it leads me to wonder, Art, you know, there's this old saw, why don't they land and show themselves clearly?
[00:27:02]  Right.
[00:27:03]  Well, the thing, if people want proof, let me address this matter.
[00:27:08]  We really have no proof that that hasn't already happened.
[00:27:12]  That's right.
[00:27:12]  And every time I think about it, every time I try to imagine and search for proof or evidence as to how their presence here might manifest itself in our society, I find that my skin begins to crawl a little bit out of concern for our future welfare because we don't have any proof that that has not happened.
[00:27:33]  And in view of the quantity and the nature of evidence that's pouring in here, and you see it as well, and hundreds and hundreds of UFO investigators across the country see the same thing, it makes me a little bit concerned for the welfare of my fellow citizens.
[00:27:47]  Well, we have people being abducted, Peter.
[00:27:50]  Now, somehow, when you say abducted by a UFO, it doesn't have the same ring to it as when somebody is abducted by another human being.
[00:27:57]  But damn it, it's the same thing.
[00:27:59]  If you're taken against your will, then that is a serious violation of your civil rights, no matter how you crack it.
[00:28:08]  If it's our side doing it, it's a very serious violation.
[00:28:12]  If it's the other side doing it, then it is a threat to national security.
[00:28:16]  Yes.
[00:28:16]  I couldn't agree more with the statement.
[00:28:18]  Art, it underscores the value of coast to coast and your strong propensity for covering this issue.
[00:28:24]  You've scooped the entire press on this matter.
[00:28:27]  And I find that, for my own part, I come down more on the side of Dr. David Jacobs, who I know has been a guest on your show several times.
[00:28:36]  He wrote a book called The Threat, which depicted these whoever they are, as not the fuzzy little close encounters of the third dimension, close encounters of the third kind tight, fuzzy little creature that we thought of.
[00:28:53]  Not that at all.
[00:28:55]  And I feel I know nothing about those alleged creatures, but I do come down on the side of Dr. Jacobs.
[00:29:01]  With regard to the issue of safety, if we're going to err, clearly we should err on the side of caution when it comes to matters regarding our continued existence in this galaxy.
[00:29:14]  And the fact that the government is saying nothing about it and the press refuses to cover it, good gracious, why are the members of the press not talking about the gorgeous, gorgeous crop circles that have been appearing in England and, in fact, around the world since April of this year?
[00:29:32]  They are preoccupied with Monica Lewinsky's lipstick color, and they don't publish a single one of those fascinating crop circles and the excellent work that Colin Andrews and many others are doing in that field.
[00:29:45]  Well, single word, agenda, I think, because, of course, there have been a couple of programs on television designed, obviously, to debunk the whole crop circle thing with people attempting to make crop circles to demonstrate how it's done and faked.
[00:30:00]  And, you know, it's all a fraud.
[00:30:01]  Well, anybody with five seconds of investigation into this knows there have been crop circles in Great Britain that could not possibly, possibly have been done with two guys and a board and a chain.

=== Crop Circles Mystery (09:15) ===

[00:30:14]  That's right.
[00:30:15]  In particular, because one of those alleged perpetrators is now dead.
[00:30:18]  If he's doing it, I'm impressed.
[00:30:22]  Well, obviously, one could conclude that there were others who then took up the mantle and decided themselves to produce crop circles.
[00:30:29]  But when you're talking about something with 190 circles over 10 acres that appears in a period of 15 minutes, no way.
[00:30:38]  Not in my mind.
[00:30:39]  And if people want to see it with their own eyes, they can just type in crop circles on the internet.
[00:30:44]  I think they'll go to the crop circle connector.
[00:30:47]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:30:48]  They'll get enough returns to stay busy for weeks.
[00:30:51]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:30:52]  There is a lot going on.
[00:30:55]  With a few minutes remaining here, I would like, if you would permit, I'd like to play another audio cut just about 50 seconds long because it forms an appeal or represents an appeal I would like to make to the ladies and gentlemen in Louisville,
[00:31:11]  Kentucky, who may have been attending the Kentucky Derby on the 1st of May this year, because a gentleman allegedly has succeeded in getting something very interesting on videotape.
[00:31:26]  And if there's anybody who, just before the first of ten races in the Kentucky Derby, saw something unusual in the skies above Louisville, Kentucky, we'd certainly like to hear from them.
[00:31:37]  Let me just go to this audio cut and I'll share with our listeners, if I may, what came in to us and let them judge for themselves whether there's any merit to this.
[00:31:47]  Here we go.
[00:31:48]  About 50 seconds, I think it is.
[00:31:50]  All right.
[00:31:50]  I was taping the aircraft that followed the Darby and Duty advertisements, and I saw a bright metallic, look-like ball shape, go behind one of the Cessna planes, come out the other side of it, and in about four seconds after that, as soon as it got in the center of the frame of my shot, it started to disappear in a puff of vapor and reappear in different parts of the shot.
[00:32:18]  It does this a total of nine times in about four seconds.
[00:32:24]  And when you frame by frame it, it cuts to and fro about 50 to 60 times.
[00:32:30]  I mean, it is moving faster than you can see.
[00:32:34]  That occurred on the 1st of May, just about a month ago.
[00:32:37]  And in a matter of days, we may have that videotape in hand.
[00:32:42]  I think we'd like to share it with you for your website if it turns out to be anything interesting.
[00:32:47]  Well, you know me.
[00:32:49]  So by all means, Peter, you get it to me and I'll get it up there right away.
[00:32:52]  Yeah.
[00:32:53]  These things are being reported to us all the time.
[00:32:56]  I think it's imperative that the American people and now because of the website and because of your program, people around the world understand that this appears to serious-minded people to be a real concrete phenomenon which we do not understand yet, which the government will not speak about, which the press has apparently, consciously decided not to cover.
[00:33:20]  And I think it's clearly information that must be gotten out to the American public and, in fact, all human beings on this planet.
[00:33:28]  Do you think, this is a tough question, Peter, that there is an actual conspiracy of silence on the part of the press, or that the press has simply come to regard these things as something that you don't report on because you somehow hurt your credibility, or I don't know, whatever it is.
[00:33:50]  That is a question I muse on probably half of my conscious day.
[00:33:55]  You do, yes.
[00:33:55]  It is an excellent question.
[00:33:57]  I think it's the overriding question of the UFO phenomenon, and let me answer it.
[00:34:01]  It's a subject that you and I have talked about on many occasions, I know, on your programs.
[00:34:08]  The thing that we observe from our vantage point up here in Seattle is that whereas the local and regional press will cover this with alacrity, they can't get enough of this.
[00:34:18]  They're constantly calling us, seeking information.
[00:34:22]  They want to know about any cases in their vicinity and so on and so forth.
[00:34:26]  They have a genuine interest in it.
[00:34:28]  When it comes to the national press, the boys and girls downtown in the blue stripe, blue pinstripe suits, you couldn't apparently interest them in this at all.
[00:34:42]  And they're consciously ignoring it.
[00:34:44]  We have a real problem in Seattle.
[00:34:47]  We've had some dramatic sightings up here in our state.
[00:34:50]  I've reported many of them over coast to coast.
[00:34:53]  And I can't get our local newspapers to even return my telephone calls.
[00:34:59]  They're not in the least interested.
[00:35:01]  One of the television stations up here has been very good in at least considering some of these cases that I hand to them.
[00:35:09]  But why would the press not cover this issue?
[00:35:13]  Why would they not investigate it, at least talk to the alleged witnesses, like Scott Benson tonight, case in point?
[00:35:20]  It is a mystery to me.
[00:35:22]  I don't know.
[00:35:23]  I want the answer, and you want the answer, and I don't think we're going to get it for a while yet.
[00:35:27]  But we've got to continue to plug away.
[00:35:30]  That's what you're doing with the National UFO Reporting Center.
[00:35:33]  I know it's a very stressful job, very stressful.
[00:35:36]  It's the hardest job I've ever had in my life, Art.
[00:35:41]  But it is also, in my opinion, the most important job I've ever had in my life.
[00:35:46]  What good it could do, God only knows.
[00:35:48]  I certainly don't.
[00:35:50]  It's clear that we are passengers with respect to this phenomenon.
[00:35:54]  We're not making any conscious decisions with regard to these objects that course through our skies.
[00:36:00]  But I do believe that the first step is collecting the data and, thanks to Coast to Coast, getting it out to a large body of people so that they may consider it.
[00:36:11]  Perhaps even they have the answers to this phenomenon.
[00:36:13]  And this, folks, is not a for-profit deal.
[00:36:17]  In fact, it's barely supported.
[00:36:19]  So if you have a buck or two out there, you can send in to the National UFO Reporting Center.
[00:36:23]  I always do this.
[00:36:24]  Peter, please give out the address.
[00:36:26]  I'll get the phone number, but you give out the address.
[00:36:28]  And I'm terribly grateful.
[00:36:29]  It has proven to be a big help.
[00:36:30]  Our mailing address in Seattle is four lines long.
[00:36:33]  The first line is the National UFO Reporting Center, where the initials simply NUFORC.
[00:36:40]  Right.
[00:36:40]  Second line is P.O. Box 45623.
[00:36:45]  The third line is University Station.
[00:36:48]  And the last line is Seattle, Washington, zip code 98145.
[00:36:53]  That address again is NUFORC, P.O. Box 45623, University Station, Seattle, Washington, 98145.
[00:37:05]  And let me just add, we are terribly grateful to those people who sent us in a few bucks, two, three, four, five bucks.
[00:37:12]  It is all we need or all we ask for, and it has made a tremendous difference up here.
[00:37:17]  You're wonderful, Peter.
[00:37:18]  Peter Davenport, as usual, thank you so very much.
[00:37:21]  Thank you, Art.
[00:37:22]  It's been a pleasure to be here.
[00:37:23]  Really appreciate it.
[00:37:24]  Good night, my friend.
[00:37:24]  Till next time.
[00:37:26]  All right, coming up next, Why I Left the Air in October of 98.
[00:37:31]  The trip back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
[00:37:36]  More Somewhere in Time coming up.
[00:37:39]  Somewhere In
[00:38:11]  Time with Art Bell.
[00:38:12]  Continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
[00:38:16]  My guest is Ann Druffel.
[00:38:17]  Ann Druffel has been investigating UFOs and abductions for longer than many of you have been alive and since I was about 12 years old.
[00:38:27]  So Ann Druffel has gathered a lot of information.
[00:38:31]  And we're talking about what those things are and what they do and abductions.
[00:38:37]  And soon, how you can actually avoid abduction.
[00:38:41]  All of that tonight and more with Ann Druffel.
[00:38:44]  Stay right where you are.
[00:38:46]  Now to Ann Druffle, who has been investigating UFOs and abductions for a very, very long, long time.

=== Nordics and Shape-Shifting (15:19) ===

[00:39:15]  Ann, welcome back.
[00:39:18]  And we were kind of discussing, I think, By the way, you've got a little hum on your phone now, so you might move around a little bit.
[00:39:26]  Okay.
[00:39:28]  Okay, that's better.
[00:39:30]  That's a little better.
[00:39:30]  Yes, that's a little better.
[00:39:32]  All right.
[00:39:34]  We were discussing the Tonga Canyon contacts, or actually abductions would be more like it, wouldn't it?
[00:39:41]  We were discussing the fact that the creatures seem to shape-shift.
[00:39:47]  Yes.
[00:39:48]  Yes.
[00:39:49]  And I know of several cases where the abductee first saw the creatures as greys, but they traumatized them.
[00:40:00]  And there were missing fetuses and everything like that.
[00:40:03]  Then the phenomenon turned into the more acceptable golden-haired Nordics.
[00:40:08]  And they seem to like these Nordics and to welcome their visits.
[00:40:13]  But if you examine the data of the cases very carefully, you will see that the Nordics do the same thing as the Greys.
[00:40:21]  As the Greys.
[00:40:22]  So it might be concluded that these creatures, whatever in the hell they are, are able to present themselves in a way that would be less stressful for the abductee.
[00:40:36]  I would think so, yes.
[00:40:38]  That's exactly what my working hypothesis is at this time.
[00:40:43]  And my database, I have 250 rational people that I have investigated as abductees.
[00:40:51]  But among those are 70 resistors.
[00:40:54]  And the 250 database, the creatures do not fall into the classes that other researchers discover.
[00:41:03]  The other classes are the insectoid, the reptilians, the nordics, and the greys.
[00:41:08]  Yes.
[00:41:09]  In my 250 database, there's all sorts of creatures of every shape and size, all humanoid, exceptional.
[00:41:17]  I understand.
[00:41:17]  Of the 70 that you said resisted, and what kind of resistance, can you give me any examples, was offered up and what happened?
[00:41:28]  One of the most striking ones is just plain physical struggle.
[00:41:33]  And I have several abductees who have simply jumped out of bed when the creatures have approached them and either pushed them or told them very, very frantically, you know, don't, I can't be bothered tonight, go away.
[00:41:52]  And they vanish.
[00:41:53]  They vanish.
[00:41:55]  The one who pushed the creature is Morgana van Clausen, who lives in the San Gabriel Valley.
[00:42:01]  And she had been bothered several times by these creatures that came in the middle of the night.
[00:42:07]  And one day she was just sick and tired of it one evening.
[00:42:10]  She was sound asleep.
[00:42:12]  The creature appeared at her bedside, and she simply jumped up and pushed it on its chest, and she could feel that it was soft like satin, she said.
[00:42:22]  And it vanished before her eyes.
[00:42:25]  But yet she was ostensibly awake.
[00:42:28]  She was on her feet, you know, and vanished.
[00:42:32]  I have heard from others, Anne, and I wonder if this is common, that these creatures are not physically strong by our standards.
[00:42:40]  That many of them, when shoved, sort of it's as if they're very light or something and they get shoved around very easily.
[00:42:49]  They do.
[00:42:51]  They do.
[00:42:52]  You say physically strong.
[00:42:54]  My working hypothesis tends to say that these creatures are not physical in our space-time as we are physical in our space-time.
[00:43:04]  So in other words, you are suggesting that it is your view that these creatures do not cross through hundreds or thousands of light years to come here in conventional craft at something less than the speed of light.
[00:43:19]  That's right.
[00:43:20]  I do not accept them as extraterrestrials, as physical visitors from another planet or another star system.
[00:43:27]  No.
[00:43:29]  Every culture, every major culture throughout the millennia has had abducting creatures, harassing creatures, humanoid in shape, which are deceptive.
[00:43:42]  They shape-shift.
[00:43:43]  They materialize and dematerialize.
[00:43:45]  They have about eight characteristics in common with our modern-day UFO abductor.
[00:43:51]  And I put quotes around that UFO because I do not accept that they are from the physical UFOs which are reported.
[00:44:00]  All right.
[00:44:00]  Well, let's see if you accept the fact that our government has knowledge of all this going on.
[00:44:05]  They say they concluded Operation Blue Book and other investigations, basically saying UFOs, whatever they are in our skies, are not a threat to national security.
[00:44:16]  And they sort of dropped the subject at that point.
[00:44:19]  Do you believe that our government either is aware of all of this and or that it has made some kind of deal with these creatures?
[00:44:28]  In other words, what is our government's present position with regard to these UFOs and these creatures?
[00:44:37]  I know that the government has been interested from the very beginning of the reports of the craft being chased by pilots and seen by radar.
[00:44:47]  This indicates that this is a physical phenomenon.
[00:44:50]  I accept the physical craft as a physical phenomenon.
[00:44:56]  But I know from a very good friend of mine who was in the CIA that they are very interested in photographs of UFOs because his company analyzed 55 photos for the Air Force and the CIA at another agency, which he was unable to tell me what it was.
[00:45:21]  This was in the mid-1960s.
[00:45:23]  But when he tried to get the contract number in the 70s for me to get the material from the FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, they told him that that was not to be discussed.
[00:45:36]  And then he tried years later to get it.
[00:45:39]  And they said even more strongly, it would do nobody any good to pursue this any further.
[00:45:46]  What do you think they meant by that?
[00:45:48]  To me, I would say it was some kind of threat.
[00:45:52]  Either that they would take away what contracts he still had with the government or perhaps a stronger threat of some kind.
[00:46:02]  There are elements of our government which are not wholesome.
[00:46:06]  I think everyone knows that.
[00:46:08]  But they are the secret parts of our government.
[00:46:11]  And there is a secret part of our government.
[00:46:14]  I don't know if it's a group or a committee or what, but they are hiding UFO photographs, at least.
[00:46:20]  All right.
[00:46:21]  Well, obviously, and there have been many people who believe that, as you point out, there is a secret aspect to our government or a government within a government or a government above our government that holds this information to itself for whatever reason, the majestic 12-type thing.
[00:46:43]  Yes.
[00:46:43]  That is what you're referring to.
[00:46:45]  That is accurate.
[00:46:48]  And that even a president might not be made aware of what's going on.
[00:46:53]  Do you believe that?
[00:46:54]  I'll go along with that.
[00:46:55]  Yes.
[00:46:58]  Because what my friend, you know, my friend who had the photogrammetric agency and analyzed 55 photos for the Air Force and the CIA, his scientists came to the conclusion that these were unknown craft from an unknown origin.
[00:47:16]  They were aerial, physical craft from an unknown origin.
[00:47:22]  Well, the reports are in the millions.
[00:47:25]  I mean, even recently, we've had reports from aircraft pilots and of things crossing the Atlantic at incredible speeds, the size of battleships, in fact, by several aircraft recently.
[00:47:40]  Just incredible reports.
[00:47:43]  And I have no idea what they could be, but they may be interdimensional craft.
[00:47:48]  I tell you, that is what you lean toward.
[00:47:52]  They may be interdimensional craft, or they may be physical craft from other star systems.
[00:47:58]  What I saw in 1945 as a kid was physical.
[00:48:04]  I wasn't in an altered state, neither was my mother.
[00:48:07]  And we saw what we saw.
[00:48:09]  Well, I had the same experience, Anne, with a craft good and close-up.
[00:48:14]  I mean, right above my head, the head of my wife and myself.
[00:48:18]  And we just stood there and watched this damn thing for about five minutes.
[00:48:24]  A perfect triangle, not flying, but floating, defying gravity.
[00:48:28]  And once you have seen that, once you have had that experience yourself, it inevitably changes your life.
[00:48:35]  Yes, it does.
[00:48:37]  You wonder what they are.
[00:48:39]  What is this thing that nobody will talk about?
[00:48:43]  Because I fully expected to see the thing reported in the paper the next day.
[00:48:48]  Yes, and there was nothing.
[00:48:50]  Well, in my case, there was.
[00:48:52]  They said, oh, yeah.
[00:48:52]  It was a secret mission over the Peruvian Valley.
[00:48:55]  They admitted that and said it was C-130 aircraft, which was an insult to the intelligence of anybody who's been anywhere near a C-130.
[00:49:01]  Oh, sure.
[00:49:02]  It would rattle your teeth at about 150 feet above.
[00:49:06]  So anyway.
[00:49:09]  You know.
[00:49:10]  I'm sorry to laugh.
[00:49:11]  It's not going to laugh.
[00:49:13]  You might cry.
[00:49:14]  That's right.
[00:49:15]  That's right.
[00:49:16]  What do you believe the intention of these beings is?
[00:49:23]  Well, now the physical UFOs that sometimes are seen to land and little occupants get out and do sorts of monitoring things, you know, with the leaves and soil that run away when witnesses approach them.
[00:49:38]  I would accept as a hypothesis that perhaps the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely.
[00:49:49]  Well, that would mean, though, that they have probably gone faster than the speed of light or live very, very long lives indeed to come here from light years away.
[00:50:07]  It might mean that if they are bound by the law of physics as we know them, I don't think they have to have bases on the moon.
[00:50:18]  You embrace the possibility, then, that physics as we know it may not be, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.
[00:50:27]  Exactly.
[00:50:29]  What is the rest of the story?
[00:50:30]  Yes.
[00:50:31]  I don't know.
[00:50:31]  That's the 64 gazillion dollar question.
[00:50:34]  What is the rest of the story?
[00:50:36]  Well, you read books by Trevor James Constable, for example, like The Cosmic Books of Life.
[00:50:41]  And he describes orgone energy that pervades the entire universe.
[00:50:49]  They may use that type of energy to travel from place to place.
[00:50:54]  I mean, that's a whole different subject, of course.
[00:50:57]  It is.
[00:50:57]  But they don't use rocket fuel.
[00:51:01]  Right.
[00:51:02]  Our rockets are probably as model T's to present automobiles.
[00:51:05]  I'm sure that's true.
[00:51:07]  Look how far we've come in such a short time.
[00:51:10]  And imagine how far we are going to go.
[00:51:12]  But if we had had craft crash on this earth and had some understanding of propulsion system, it would seem that we would not be leaving the earth in anger, so to speak, with these great rocket ships with their great trails of smoke and flame, that we would be using a more sophisticated type of propulsion if we had been studying UFO propulsion since 1947,
[00:51:42]  as the people in Roswell, the Roswell researchers contend.
[00:51:46]  Well, Ann, here's one to take you out on a limb.
[00:51:50]  If you were one of these creatures and you were examining our world and had been since, let us say, the explosion of the first atomic bomb, and you'd been keeping an eye on us right through today, what would you conclude with regard to actual contact and our joining with whoever might be out there or across the next dimension or whatever?
[00:52:18]  In other words, would you conclude that we are a fit people conducting ourselves in a fit way on this world to join some sort of federation?
[00:52:30]  Well, if there is a federation, I don't think we're able to join it yet.
[00:52:36]  We're not at that point.
[00:52:38]  I'm not sure there is a federation of planets.
[00:52:41]  Well, I'm not sure either, but it was sort of just a speculative question.
[00:52:44]  In other words, are we ready for prime time here?
[00:52:46]  No, no, I don't think so.
[00:52:50]  I certainly agree with you.
[00:52:52]  I saw earlier tonight that India and Pakistan are going at it over Kashmir.
[00:52:58]  And, of course, they've both got nuclear weapons, and I'm sort of on pins and needles just waiting to hear what might happen.
[00:53:06]  We're bombing the hell out of Yugoslavia, and God knows what else is going on in the world.
[00:53:11]  I don't know what the rules would be for inclusion into some sort of federation, but I would think not having a propensity to commit suicide or take others with you would be one rather immediate concern.
[00:53:26]  No.
[00:53:27]  No.
[00:53:28]  You mentioned God.
[00:53:30]  We are in God's hands, all of us.
[00:53:33]  And that's the only thing I can think about, according, you know, when I look at the situation in Kosovo.
[00:53:40]  If it does spread into a general Third World War, we're in God's hands.
[00:53:46]  That's the only comfort that I have.
[00:53:49]  Well, that's about the only comfort anybody individually can take because it seems like it's out of our hands.
[00:53:55]  Yes, it is.
[00:53:57]  We can't seem to affect a policy.
[00:54:00]  But I'm sure the UFOs are monitoring that war very carefully as they monitored World War II and the Vietnam War and the Korean War.
[00:54:12]  They monitor our war theaters.

=== Defending Against Abduction (10:43) ===

[00:54:18]  That's why they see so many UFOs.
[00:54:22]  People in battle see a lot of UFOs.
[00:54:25]  Yes, they do, as a matter of fact.
[00:54:26]  That really is true, isn't it?
[00:54:28]  Yes.
[00:54:30]  So you would ascribe that to their monitoring our battles.
[00:54:34]  I would ascribe that to the physical type of visitor, wherever it's from, monitoring our Earth, yes.
[00:54:41]  All right, Ann, you wrote a book virtually telling people how they can avoid abduction.
[00:54:49]  Is that correct?
[00:54:50]  Yes, how to defend yourself against daily abduction.
[00:54:55]  It's an entirely new aspect to the field.
[00:54:57]  You bet.
[00:54:58]  So let's roll over a little bit of that.
[00:55:01]  If you don't want to be abducted, how do you defend yourself against something that will, in effect, control your mind or put you in an altered state?
[00:55:11]  How in the heck do you defend yourself against that?
[00:55:15]  By recognizing that most abduction scenarios occur in an altered state, and that once the altered state is entered and the aliens are able to break through into our space-time or into the altered state, that they have charge.
[00:55:37]  They have charge if the abductee lets them have charge.
[00:55:42]  I believe they have a way of deepening the altered state that an abductee is in to the extent that perhaps very few people could ever get out of it.
[00:55:54]  Okay, then how would you defend against that?
[00:55:56]  Well, once an altered state begins, there's steps to it.
[00:56:01]  There's first paralysis, then maybe a white light, and then the entities appear, and then the entities calm the abductee down.
[00:56:12]  Don't worry, we'll bring you back, all that sort of stuff.
[00:56:15]  And then the trip to the ship.
[00:56:18]  If the abductee recognizes the first phases, like the paralysis, if they will awake, paralyzed, and feel the presence of the creatures near them.
[00:56:30]  Hold, hold it right there.
[00:56:31]  That's a good place to hang everybody up, kind of a cliffhanger.
[00:56:35]  And we'll be right back.
[00:56:39]  It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
[00:56:49]  And I'm ready for the tasks to get better.
[00:56:56]  Well, I'll second that.
[00:56:57]  Good morning, everybody.
[00:56:58]  And Druffel is here.
[00:56:59]  We're going to talk about how you can defend yourself against abduction by them.
[00:57:05]  You know, them.
[00:57:07]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:57:09]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:57:17]  Open to find a way out.
[00:57:22]  I've had enough of this continual rain.
[00:57:28]  I can spend my back on your bed.
[00:57:34]  When it's alright, and it's coming.
[00:57:37]  You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:57:41]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 1st, 1999.
[00:57:45]  Good morning, everybody.
[00:57:46]  Anne Druffel is here, and she has been investigating ufology, those things in the sky, abductions, for 42 years.
[00:57:56]  Very seriously investigating, and we are going to get the phone lines open for her shortly.
[00:58:00]  We are discussing how to defend yourself against abduction.
[00:58:04]  And we'll continue in that vein in a moment.
[00:58:26]  Once again, here is Ann Druffle.
[00:58:29]  Ann, welcome back.
[00:58:30]  Yes, thank you.
[00:58:31]  All right.
[00:58:33]  Let us continue.
[00:58:34]  We will take calls shortly, but we were talking about defense.
[00:58:39]  The thing is, the creatures, I accept the abduction phenomenon as a real phenomenon because it does affect rational, stable individuals.
[00:58:50]  I believe that they're telling what happened to them as best they can.
[00:58:54]  So it is a real phenomenon on some state, on some state of reality.
[00:59:00]  But I do not think that it takes place in the physical space-time that we ordinarily live in and in full waking consciousness.
[00:59:07]  I wanted to make that sure Plane.
[00:59:11]  But the creatures, whatever they are, seem to be able to read our thoughts and tensions and to change shape or to change the scenario of the abduction to something more acceptable if the abductee starts to object too violently to it.
[00:59:32]  Okay, hold on one second, Anne.
[00:59:33]  Let me do something here to correct some audio.
[00:59:36]  All right, you say, but see, that would seem to imply that these creatures, whatever they are, are more in the world of the paranormal than what we would think of as the normal.
[00:59:49]  I would think they have strong psychic aspects, yes.
[00:59:53]  They seem to come from some dimension or some state of consciousness that is not in our physical space-time in full waking consciousness.
[01:00:09]  It's not dreams.
[01:00:11]  I know that.
[01:00:12]  It's not the same as dreams.
[01:00:14]  It's not the same as hypnosis, but it does start with some kind of light trance or sleeping.
[01:00:23]  While sleeping, the person is unaware of what is going on around them.
[01:00:31]  And that is why the creatures break through the sleeping state because they can catch the person unawares.
[01:00:39]  But sometimes the abductions start when the person is watching television and in this light hypnotic trance that television puts you in, that's right.
[01:00:48]  Or road hypnosis, driving along a lonely road in a very light trance, although you might not know that you are.
[01:00:55]  All right, Anne, I've interviewed a lot of abductees, and in a lot of cases, you're correct.
[01:01:00]  There have been things sexual that have gone on, either clinical or not so clinical.
[01:01:06]  And then there have been reports later of continuing abductions in which these abductees have been shown their supposed offspring or mixture offspring.
[01:01:19]  A lot of reports like that, Anne?
[01:01:22]  I have not gotten many of those, strangely.
[01:01:25]  Very few.
[01:01:27]  What about the constant reference to genetic impurities in whoever they are and genetic research being done on us?
[01:01:40]  I think this comes from researchers who have latched onto this as a theory.
[01:01:48]  And they have this in their mind when they hypnotize their abductees.
[01:01:53]  And so you think in a lot of cases hypnotists are actually implanting these suggestions either knowingly or unknowingly?
[01:02:03]  I do not think it's knowingly because these researchers are out there working without any pay.
[01:02:09]  I mean, their researchers are trying to find the truth.
[01:02:13]  But I don't think they realize that in a hypnotic state, a person is very liable to link telepathically with the person who is hypnotizing them.
[01:02:27]  And they can pull out things from the hypnotist's mind that would please the hypnotist if they said it.
[01:02:34]  And they do not know that they are pleasing the hypnotist.
[01:02:38]  They do not know that this is a process that's being used, but it does happen.
[01:02:43]  And that is why I would say that a lot of researchers get a lot of hybrid baby cases, you know, a lot of genetic interference cases because this is their own theory and the abductees read it telepathically.
[01:03:01]  How are you able to avoid that in the hypnosis work that you've done?
[01:03:07]  I don't do hypnosis anymore because I realize that it is too fraught with failure.
[01:03:16]  The thing is, when I did do it, or when I did take them to a hypnotherapist in the areas, we agreed that all we wanted was what the person thought was in their own mind.
[01:03:29]  And there was nothing whatsoever that we would feed them either consciously or unconsciously.
[01:03:36]  Okay, but even with that said and that done, you still have given up on hypnosis.
[01:03:41]  Why?
[01:03:42]  Because there is too much danger of confabulation.
[01:03:47]  That is unconscious embellishment or lying, untruth, unconscious.
[01:03:54]  The telling of unconscious untruth is confabulation.
[01:03:58]  And this occurs normally in the hypnotic process.
[01:04:02]  How much credence would you give to the use of lie detectors?
[01:04:06]  For example, Travis Walton and a whole group along with him, Travis Walton was abducted, and they took two separate lie detector tests with regard to what they had in conscious memory about their experience.
[01:04:22]  Now, is there usefulness in that?
[01:04:27]  I think that maybe if the person wants to take a lie detector test and they have a very expert person doing the work that it might prove useful to them, I say go ahead if they want to use it.
[01:04:41]  But I do want to say that I know Travis Walton personally, and I think that he might be an exception to the abductions taking place in altered consciousness because there were five or six of his buddies who saw him struck by this UFO-type vehicle.

=== Myths and Masking (11:09) ===

[01:05:01]  Absolutely.
[01:05:02]  Now, this may be one true case of an actual UFO abducting a human being, but also they did not see him taken aboard.
[01:05:13]  And I don't know what happened after this, but when he said he found himself aboard an apparent ship, he was able to resist initially the creatures who met the criteria of grade.
[01:05:31]  That's right.
[01:05:31]  He chased them off.
[01:05:33]  That's right.
[01:05:34]  What I call righteous anger.
[01:05:36]  Yes.
[01:05:36]  But then when he went further along and met human-looking creatures and he presumed that he was aboard a ship, there was no way he could get off.
[01:05:47]  He trusted the human-looking creatures.
[01:05:51]  Now, did they shape-shift into something more acceptable to him and gain his confidence and deepen his altered state?
[01:05:59]  I don't know.
[01:06:03]  All right.
[01:06:05]  But I trust Travis Walton.
[01:06:07]  Yeah, oh, so do I.
[01:06:09]  I interviewed Travis.
[01:06:10]  I interviewed his boss.
[01:06:14]  We extensively presented that story, by the way, as opposed to the way the movie portrayed it here on the air.
[01:06:20]  Oh, that was terrible.
[01:06:21]  Many hours of interview with Travis, and I believe every word of it.
[01:06:26]  All right.
[01:06:27]  Listen, I want to take some calls, and I'll kind of intersperse questions with calls if we can.
[01:06:31]  How's that?
[01:06:32]  Sure, you go to the house.
[01:06:32]  All right, here they come.
[01:06:33]  First time caller line, you're on the air with Ann Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:06:36]  Hi.
[01:06:37]  Yes, Lo?
[01:06:38]  Hi.
[01:06:38]  Yes, hi.
[01:06:40]  Yes.
[01:06:40]  Hi, Art.
[01:06:41]  Yes.
[01:06:41]  Yes, hi.
[01:06:42]  My prayers are with you.
[01:06:43]  And I must admit, I'm not familiar with all the writings and authors that you're speaking of.
[01:06:49]  I'm calling this morning from Michigan.
[01:06:51]  My name is Ann.
[01:06:53]  Yes, Anne.
[01:06:53]  And my question for Ann was, I'm sensing some kind of possible connection here.
[01:07:00]  Just recently I watched a video tape produced by Bob Larson Ministries.
[01:07:09]  And this tape consisted of a discussion of two members of a religion that follow the so-called left-hand path.
[01:07:19]  They were members of the Temple of Set.
[01:07:23]  And these two members state that they absolutely practice black magic, Satanism, etc., and are physically able to alter themselves into other altered physical entities and dimensions.
[01:07:44]  They also claim that there are very powerful, prominent persons involved in this so-called religion, the Temple of Set.
[01:07:56]  And I'm just wondering, is there any connection here that these could be some form of the ETs or some of the beings that are conducting these, if I might, let me take your question, Temple of Set or other religious takes on the whole UFO alien abduction business.
[01:08:17]  And an awful lot of religions view any of this as demonic in source.
[01:08:25]  And what's your take on that?
[01:08:31]  If they mean demonic as a devil, you know, devils, Satan, fallen angels, I don't agree with them.
[01:08:39]  If they use demonic in the term that the Europeans use it, as an order of creation that is mischievous, harassing, but not devils, but something in between, like the jinns of the Muslims or the Celtic fairy folk, I would say that they could be demonic, but I would have to be in Europe to use that word so that they would know what I mean.
[01:09:04]  Well, you stated certainly a belief in God earlier.
[01:09:08]  Yes.
[01:09:08]  And I take it that it is derived from the Bible, what we read in the Bible.
[01:09:14]  And in the Bible, there are described fallen angels, are there not?
[01:09:19]  Yes.
[01:09:20]  I mean, the history, you know, yes.
[01:09:23]  Yes.
[01:09:24]  But you rule these out as the source of what we're seeing and some are experiencing.
[01:09:31]  Yes, I do.
[01:09:32]  I think they are a separate order of creation, a type of rational creature that either shares the earth with us or is on a hidden plane which intersects our own space-time.
[01:09:46]  Okay, that's clear.
[01:09:48]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Anne Ruffel.
[01:09:50]  Good morning.
[01:09:51]  Good morning.
[01:09:51]  This is Emily from Tennessee.
[01:09:53]  We'll sing out of WTN in Nashville.
[01:09:56]  Yes, Emily.
[01:09:58]  I've had very interesting experiences in my life, and some could even fit with a possibility of the type of ufology that has gone on, and also with any kind of myths about, you know, people or things stealing babies from cradles or whatever.
[01:10:17]  However, I have a problem with the self-hypnosis question where a person might say to themselves, oh yes, I have been abducted by aliens.
[01:10:27]  And in stating that or in accepting that over and over, literally hypnotize themselves into that reality as opposed to leaving oneself open to learning another lesson, as it were, or learning another possibility.
[01:10:45]  No, well said, really.
[01:10:46]  In other words, they continue, in essence, to convince themselves that this has happened until finally they believe it unconditionally themselves.
[01:10:56]  Yeah, they accept it.
[01:10:57]  They accept it by repeating it to themselves or by grasping onto another's definition of an abduction and saying, well, this fits, that fits.
[01:11:08]  Does that sound right to you, Anne?
[01:11:10]  I would like her opinion on the hypnosis hypnosis.
[01:11:14]  You're right on, as far as I'm concerned.
[01:11:18]  When you speak with people, are there certain people that you might feel have convinced themselves more than they're convincing you or have and literally believe it, I mean, I believe this is that person's reality.
[01:11:28]  I'm not whoever question that.
[01:11:30]  It's just that by latching on to the mainstream explanation, one can overlook very important clues that might weigh elsewhere.
[01:11:41]  Yes, it's either that they have read books or met researchers who have convinced them that these indeed are extraterrestrials who are abducting them for various reasons.
[01:11:55]  That's why I always let the person draw their own conclusions as to what had happened to them.
[01:12:03]  And most of the people I work with now choose not to be hypnotized.
[01:12:08]  I wouldn't want to be.
[01:12:09]  I would be, I have an act of imagination anyway.
[01:12:11]  I would think that I might add facts that weren't there simply because I was allowed to.
[01:12:17]  Yes, so.
[01:12:18]  And yet all of this, we admit it so, and I, too, join you too in believing that people do this to themselves.
[01:12:25]  But then we have the Travis Waltons.
[01:12:28]  Oh, yeah.
[01:12:28]  And we have the other cases that seem indisputably to be physical, real events that occurred with multiple, multiple witnesses.
[01:12:37]  So how in heaven's name do we separate the two?
[01:12:40]  I guess that is the job.
[01:12:41]  Yes, and also that, Anne, you mentioned the Celtic folk and the fairy folk and the gods of old.
[01:12:49]  I'd like to hear a little more, if I could, and then I'll hang up of your opinion of the fact that have the myths masked the aliens or has the aliens masked the myths?
[01:13:02]  That's a good question, Anne.
[01:13:04]  I didn't get the question.
[01:13:05]  I'm sorry.
[01:13:06]  Well, which is masking which?
[01:13:08]  Are the aliens masking the myths or are the myths masking the aliens?
[01:13:14]  I believe that there is truth in the myths and in the folklore.
[01:13:18]  If you go to Ireland and talk to people in the western counties and gain their confidence, they will tell you stories of interaction with fairies even today.
[01:13:30]  The little people.
[01:13:31]  And they did up into the 30s and up to the 20s and 30s to authors like William Yeats and Evans Wentz.
[01:13:41]  Those scholars wrote whole books about the fairy faith in the Celtic country.
[01:13:46]  Absolutely, and they believe this unconditionally, don't they?
[01:13:50]  They did.
[01:13:51]  They did.
[01:13:52]  And now they're more sophisticated and they do not present themselves as believing in fairies now, but they will show you fairy rings in the middle of a meadow that has been protected for hundreds of years.
[01:14:05]  Nobody dares plow it up because they fear that that is the realm of the fairy and they will get into trouble and the fairies will make trouble for them.
[01:14:14]  Maybe.
[01:14:16]  Maybe, Anne, from the same realm, in recent years, there was this creature, mythical perhaps, called the chupacabra.
[01:14:24]  And it, otherwise known as the goatsucker, I think that's what it means in Spanish chupacabra.
[01:14:30]  It began in Puerto Rico, moved into South America, Central America, and then finally into America itself, and then suddenly stopped.
[01:14:38]  But if you go to Mexico to this very day, Anne, I can assure you, while people up here might chuckle about this creature and make light of it, if you go into Mexico, nobody there makes light of it.
[01:14:51]  It's a conversation stopper.
[01:14:53]  Well, no.
[01:14:55]  Very respected researchers went down to I can't remember the, the um South American country where the Chupacabra was.
[01:15:05]  Um well, there there were hundreds of creatures documented uh, to have been attacked by this thing, with blood drain and all the rest of it.
[01:15:13]  Yes uh, it began in Puerto Rico and kind of moved over to South America and then on up north and then all of a sudden stopped.
[01:15:19]  But I mean, that's almost like Ireland's little people uh, with a twist with a twist.
[01:15:26]  Yes uh, it's.
[01:15:27]  It's what uh probably would frighten the people uh, the uh, the human beings it's.
[01:15:33]  Perhaps these um, interdimensional creatures took that form because they knew that it would frighten and startle the human beings that it interacted with.

=== Breaking The Time Illusion (04:11) ===

[01:15:44]  Well, they sure were right about that East Of The Rockies you're on the air with, And Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:15:48]  Good morning, hello there hello yes, hi.
[01:15:52]  Hey, turn your radio off.
[01:15:54]  Turn your radio off.
[01:15:55]  Please turn the radio off.
[01:15:58]  Okay, please turn that off.
[01:16:00]  I'd like to start with a quote from Einstein.
[01:16:03]  From Einstein, he said that uh, time is only an illusion, even though a stubborn one.
[01:16:12]  The distinction between uh past, present and future is an illusion.
[01:16:17]  Well, that kind of goes along with what we were just discussing, in a strange sort of way.
[01:16:21]  Yeah, and I believe I was abducted from a car and while I was driving late at night and uh, I believe it was me from the future when uh built a time machine and I came back to the past to show myself how to build the time machine in the future, really.
[01:16:40]  And i've been stuck in this loop and the only way to break the loop is to talk about it and and and.
[01:16:49]  Hence your call to me tonight.
[01:16:51]  Yeah, this is breaking the loop.
[01:16:55]  Well uh, I guess we have yet to see about that.
[01:16:58]  Maybe you can report back to us.
[01:17:00]  Um, it is written a book about it.
[01:17:02]  Well, it's an awfully interesting conjecture, sir.
[01:17:05]  Uh, and with regard to the nature of time and time travel, is this something you have considered?
[01:17:13]  I've considered it as a theory that some scientists are uh espousing that Ufos are time machines for the future.
[01:17:22]  Sure uh, it's a possibility.
[01:17:24]  Well, everybody's always said to reject that.
[01:17:26]  It's their hypotheses.
[01:17:28]  My working hypotheses is different from my own experience.
[01:17:32]  Well, they have always said that if there is time travel, then where are the time travelers?
[01:17:37]  And the answer to that might be uh, in our skies, all around us.
[01:17:41]  And hold on, we're going to be right back.
[01:17:43]  We're going to take a break here at the top of the hour.
[01:17:46]  This is coast to coast a.m.
[01:17:51]  I remember that, don't you?
[01:18:26]  Somewhere in Time with Art Bell.
[01:18:29]  Continues.
[01:18:30]  Courtesy of Premier Networks.
[01:18:32]  Welcome to the program.
[01:18:33]  Those of you who join at this hour, anything is possible tonight.
[01:18:37]  Anything at all.
[01:18:38]  Who knows?
[01:18:39]  But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
[01:19:00]  Once again, here is Andruff Land.
[01:19:03]  Welcome back.
[01:19:04]  Maybe we went over it too quickly.
[01:19:06]  You wrote an entire book on how we defend ourselves from alien abduction.
[01:19:12]  Somebody writes, did Ann answer this?
[01:19:15]  Well, yes, in part, but what specific things would you recommend to people that they can do?
[01:19:23]  You started to talk about being paralyzed and all the rest of that.
[01:19:27]  What can be done to avoid this if it begins?
[01:19:31]  Well, of course, this is a 10-year study in this book.
[01:19:35]  It's only $12, and it's out by Random House.

=== Resistance Techniques (13:04) ===

[01:19:39]  And this has all of the information in it.
[01:19:42]  I can summarize it.
[01:19:44]  If you would.
[01:19:46]  Yes.
[01:19:47]  There are nine resistance techniques which have been described to me by 70 resistors.
[01:19:54]  The first is mental struggle, to recognize that you are paralyzed because of these creatures, because you either see them or feel their presence.
[01:20:04]  You struggle until you can move one little part of your body, and then generally the paralysis, the total paralysis, will break all over your body, and the presences or the entities that have materialized will vanish from sight, and you come to full waking consciousness.
[01:20:23]  But you must be aware of why you are paralyzed and how to break it.
[01:20:28]  The second is physical struggle, which simply is to fight back with whatever you have, your hands, a gun, whatever.
[01:20:37]  Give a good right to give you a good, a good right to the jaw.
[01:20:42]  A good right to the jaw would be fine.
[01:20:46]  I haven't heard that yet.
[01:20:49]  Now, one woman broke an entity's neck, however, which is described in the book.
[01:20:56]  Oh, really?
[01:20:57]  Yes, which shows how fragile they really are.
[01:21:00]  If you can snap a neck with it like a twig.
[01:21:04]  Like a twig.
[01:21:04]  Uh-huh.
[01:21:05]  That's what she said.
[01:21:06]  Now, righteous anger is to summon your inviolate rights.
[01:21:11]  Have a firm sense of your own inviolate rights as an American citizen, as a creature of God, whatever the inviolable rights come from.
[01:21:23]  You summon them.
[01:21:24]  You know that you have a right against intrusion by any creature, human or otherwise.
[01:21:29]  In other words, this is a sovereign house in a sovereign country.
[01:21:31]  Get the hell out.
[01:21:32]  Exactly.
[01:21:33]  I got you.
[01:21:34]  Exactly.
[01:21:35]  But ant protective rage is a step up from righteous anger because it's protecting your children and or your husband and your wife.
[01:21:46]  But the thing about this, this is discussed in the book, righteous anger and protective rage.
[01:21:52]  Other researchers have told me that their abductees, some of their abductees have tried anger and it does not work.
[01:22:01]  I have demonstrated in the book that it does not work because you must be free of hatred of the creatures.
[01:22:10]  You must resent their intrusion and get rid of them through the techniques, but you must hold no anger or hatred against them afterwards.
[01:22:22]  And this gives you a protection against further intrusion.
[01:22:26]  But if you are angry, if you are depressed about them and wonder if they're going to come back, sure, they will.
[01:22:33]  Gotcha.
[01:22:34]  Because your shield is gone.
[01:22:36]  Then support from family members.
[01:22:40]  It's important that the people in your household know that you are being assaulted in this way.
[01:22:47]  And they will help you get a combination. of techniques together and use the techniques with you.
[01:22:54]  In other words, you find support in numbers in your household.
[01:23:00]  There are metaphysical methods such as intuition, white light, something called internal sound.
[01:23:09]  And there's a very interesting case of a girl from Tahunga Canyons, in fact, who broke a scenario, an abduction scenario in midway.
[01:23:23]  She was already aboard the ship and on the table when she decided she didn't like this.
[01:23:28]  She used internal sound, which is a yogic type of technique that can be learned.
[01:23:37]  All of these things that you're describing seem to be ways of breaking an altered state.
[01:23:42]  Exactly.
[01:23:43]  Yes.
[01:23:44]  If you break the altered state in which the scenario is occurring, you're home free.
[01:23:50]  But I must warn that a combination of techniques is very important because these creatures may go away for maybe a year or so if you use mental struggle or righteous anger against them, but they come back stronger with new techniques, new shapes, new scenarios which are more pleasing or more powerful.
[01:24:14]  Yes.
[01:24:15]  And so a combination is very, very useful.
[01:24:18]  I've interviewed many times Bud Hopkins.
[01:24:21]  He has described a couple of absolutely incredible abductions seen by witnesses, highly placed witnesses, in fact.
[01:24:30]  I'm sure you're familiar with him several times, and people have tried things like video recording.
[01:24:42]  In other words, they go to sleep and they have a VCR running.
[01:24:44]  Inevitably, the VCR doesn't capture it or it's turned off mysteriously or something happens and the people are nevertheless taken.
[01:24:54]  But often when the video recorder is used, the creatures do not come.
[01:25:00]  That has happened in a couple of my cases.
[01:25:03]  So that is one possible physical defense.
[01:25:05]  Yes, it is a technique that can be used.
[01:25:08]  But there's also a case, a very interesting case of a Baptist minister in my book who used photography.
[01:25:16]  He managed to get a picture of two entities that visited him repeatedly.
[01:25:22]  He did?
[01:25:23]  Yes, he got them as they were dashing through a doorway.
[01:25:27]  He was apparently dematerializing as they went.
[01:25:31]  Is this a photograph?
[01:25:33]  Is it in your book?
[01:25:34]  Yes, it's been computer enhanced.
[01:25:36]  It shows the creature shredding on the right side.
[01:25:40]  And strangely, the left hand in the computer enhancement, the left hand, which was in shadows in the picture that the Baptist minister presented to me, when computer enhanced, it shows the entire left arm and it's holding some kind of bag.
[01:25:58]  Now, we made fun of that, of course.
[01:26:01]  We were delighted to see that appear.
[01:26:04]  But then I see where there is a case in Britain about the Ilkley Moor creature.
[01:26:13]  And it, too, was photographed by a policeman in England.
[01:26:18]  And there was some suspicion that perhaps there was missing time there too.
[01:26:23]  But his creature, photographed on the moor, is also holding some kind of bag in its left hand.
[01:26:30]  Now, it's just extremely exciting to find stuff like that.
[01:26:35]  Because there are legends from Celtic fairy lore which describe something called bag men, which were of a race which were not human.
[01:26:47]  And they were supposed to have built up Ireland from the sea by carrying bags of soil and rocks and boulders to build up this island in the sea.
[01:26:58]  Ireland.
[01:26:58]  All right, your book.
[01:27:00]  Your book, How to Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction, is obviously available.
[01:27:03]  It's your latest book.
[01:27:05]  It's available nationwide, I guess, in bookstores.
[01:27:08]  Is that true?
[01:27:08]  It's available in Barnes  ⁇ Noble, in Borders, in other bookstores, on Amazon.com, on randomhouse.com.
[01:27:18]  It's available widely.
[01:27:19]  Right.
[01:27:20]  If you want to go to my website, folks, we have links up, and you can just jump across, of course, and to Amazon.com, for example, and get the book.
[01:27:29]  How has your book been received, Anne?
[01:27:32]  It has been received very well by the public.
[01:27:35]  It's selling well, both in Britain and in the United States.
[01:27:39]  It's out in a British edition also.
[01:27:41]  I see.
[01:27:42]  And now, some researchers in the field have been very quiet about it.
[01:27:47]  Others have been very open, like Leo Sprinkle has invited me to talk at his conference, the Rocky Mountain Conference, this month, in fact.
[01:27:58]  But other researchers have been quiet.
[01:28:01]  Others have written me letters which say, you know, this is wonderful.
[01:28:05]  I'm glad you attacked this problem.
[01:28:07]  It clarifies things for me.
[01:28:10]  And there is an endorsement on the cover from Edgar Mitchell.
[01:28:14]  Dr. Mitchell.
[01:28:15]  Apollo 14 astronaut.
[01:28:17]  Yes, sir.
[01:28:18]  And he says this is a very powerful book.
[01:28:20]  Druffel's research does us all a great service.
[01:28:24]  And I was delighted to get that endorsement from Captain Mitchell.
[01:28:29]  And he especially pointed out that it addresses the psychological aspect of abductions, which is the altered state.
[01:28:39]  Indeed.
[01:28:39]  All right, here we go again.
[01:28:40]  First time caller line.
[01:28:41]  You're on the air with Ann Druffel.
[01:28:43]  Good morning.
[01:28:43]  Good morning.
[01:28:44]  Where are you?
[01:28:45]  I am in Tennessee.
[01:28:46]  My name is Linda.
[01:28:47]  Can you hear me okay?
[01:28:48]  I hear you fine, Linda.
[01:28:49]  It's great to know.
[01:28:51]  I got my headset phone on.
[01:28:53]  All right.
[01:28:54]  I was calling.
[01:28:54]  I wanted to ask Ann a couple questions.
[01:28:57]  I'm just beginning to get into UFO research myself.
[01:29:00]  I had a sighting in April.
[01:29:01]  It went right over my head.
[01:29:04]  I've seen things long distance, but nothing this close.
[01:29:07]  And it really fired me up, and I started doing some research.
[01:29:10]  And the first thing you come across, it seems, is alien abduction.
[01:29:13]  So I'm really fascinated with hearing about her book.
[01:29:17]  She's talking about the hypnosis part, believing that it's not truly accurate way of getting information.
[01:29:25]  What would you recommend, Ann, as an alternative?
[01:29:28]  Because I'm dealing with a lot of people online that I'm talking to talking about their abductions, and that's why most of them seem to have come across some of their memories, retrieve their memories.
[01:29:38]  What would be a good alternative?
[01:29:40]  I would advise that you give these people time.
[01:29:45]  A lot of them are truly traumatized by what has happened to them or puzzled by missing time that they don't know what has happened to them.
[01:29:54]  Have several interviews with them.
[01:29:56]  Let them clear the whole plate, tell the whole story, all their worries, their trauma, in a conscious, in conscious interviews.
[01:30:06]  And then if you wish or if they wish very judicious hypnotic regressions with a true expert, a hypnotherapist if you can find one.
[01:30:18]  But please do not go beyond two sessions because the repeated sessions harden the memories that surface during hypnosis, including the confabulated memories.
[01:30:32]  And I put memories in quotes there.
[01:30:35]  Okay.
[01:30:36]  And a point, here I'm here in the sunny south.
[01:30:40]  I'm right here in the buckle of the Bible belt.
[01:30:43]  One of the things you were recommending, going to family for support, I would have to say, in all total honesty, that might work like in California.
[01:30:54]  But in this area, get right, get mugged, you've got support.
[01:30:58]  Tell somebody you've got alien adults experience, and they're going to want to lock you up.
[01:31:02]  Yeah, she's got a really good point.
[01:31:04]  I mean, she's right in the middle of the Bible belt, and acceptance there might not come quite as readily.
[01:31:11]  There is a very nice woman called Patsy Wingate, who is in Tennessee.
[01:31:18]  She is an abductee, and she is discussed in the book.
[01:31:22]  And her husband supports her.
[01:31:25]  Her children support her because they too see the creatures and are bothered by them, though not as much as she was.
[01:31:33]  But in terms of going public with something, it might be a little tougher in Tennessee.
[01:31:39]  Oh, most of the people that I work with do not go public.
[01:31:45]  They want to have their own questions answered privately within themselves.
[01:31:49]  Sure.
[01:31:50]  But they are not the type to appear on television.
[01:31:53]  That would certainly make sense to me.
[01:31:55]  Yes, this is not a subject to appear on television with, I don't think.
[01:32:02]  It troubles me very much that the media have taken up this question or this problem of abduction the way they have.
[01:32:11]  It's reached into the X-Files, the Strange Universe, all of these documentary programs.
[01:32:18]  And it is producing what I call a victim mentality in the American populace, which is unwholesome and inappropriate.

=== Unexplained Abductions Revealed (15:34) ===

[01:32:28]  Because most of the top-profile researchers contend that there is nothing that abductees can do about being abducted, that no resistance techniques work.
[01:32:40]  They've only tried anger, you know, things like that.
[01:32:45]  But that the abductees are at the mercy of these entities and nothing can be done about it.
[01:32:51]  Well, I say that we are Americans as a race, and we do not fold that easily.
[01:32:58]  If there is any way that we can try to get rid of these creatures, whatever they are, we should try it.
[01:33:06]  All right.
[01:33:06]  Very quickly, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Anne Druffel.
[01:33:10]  Hello.
[01:33:11]  Calling from Las Vegas, Hot Talk 105.1 FM.
[01:33:14]  Just over the hill, yes, sir.
[01:33:16]  And I had an experience about 13 years ago.
[01:33:19]  I was sitting on my bed and for some reason couldn't get off, couldn't get any sleep.
[01:33:24]  And it was late.
[01:33:25]  All of a sudden, a blue strobe light appeared in my room.
[01:33:28]  Anticipating something was about to happen.
[01:33:30]  I then had a type of electrical current entering from my fingertips and my toes all the way into my mid drift, paralyzing me completely.
[01:33:43]  I couldn't move for about three minutes.
[01:33:46]  And when it let me go, it let me go right away.
[01:33:48]  And I had a little trouble regaining my posture.
[01:33:52]  I got up from my bed and went to the window immediately to see if there was a helicopter or something shining a light down outside my house.
[01:34:00]  When I got to the window, I looked out and there was two raccoons on my roof.
[01:34:04]  They were just sitting there motionless like they had been affected by the same paralyzing effect that I was.
[01:34:09]  All right, Caller, this is very interesting.
[01:34:11]  Please hold your story.
[01:34:13]  Can you afford to hold a moment?
[01:34:14]  All right, stay right there, and we will be right back.
[01:34:18]  I thought this might be good.
[01:34:24]  The short little guys with the big black eyes from a galaxy far away.
[01:34:28]  Listen to the words.
[01:34:29]  I've heard the borrower stories being digging the dead of night.
[01:34:34]  Laid out on the table like a Christmas tree, afraid I died in fright.
[01:34:39]  They can paralyze you with their eyes and levitate you out of bed.
[01:34:44]  Pull you right up through the ceiling and start messing with.
[01:34:49]  I'll tell you one more before I get up the door.
[01:34:53]  Don't bring me out.
[01:34:56]  Bring your networks present.
[01:34:58]  Art Bell Somewhere Inside.
[01:35:01]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 1st, 1999.
[01:35:05]  I'm not exactly sure that Wanna Take a Rod is appropriate for this morning's discussion, but hey, what the heck?
[01:35:13]  And Druffel will be right back.
[01:35:14]  She's been investigating people who have taken rides and the things they've written in for 42 years.
[01:35:21]  Forty-two years, and she'll be right back.
[01:35:25]  All right, here's Ann Druffle once again and the caller back on the line.
[01:35:46]  Thank you for waiting, sir.
[01:35:47]  Thank you.
[01:35:48]  Go right ahead.
[01:35:50]  As I was saying, I felt an electrical current that didn't hurt go through my fingertips and my toes to my midriff.
[01:35:59]  And I watched them after that went away.
[01:36:04]  I got up immediately and ran to my window to see if there was a helicopter outside that caused the blue strobe light that was now ended.
[01:36:12]  I then watched the raccoons out of my roof.
[01:36:14]  They fully recovered from what I guessed was the same paralyzing effect that I recovered from.
[01:36:19]  The blue strobe was gone, but there was an outdoor light that illuminated the raccoons as they were fully mobile.
[01:36:25]  They then ran directly off the roof without even using the adjacent tree for safety.
[01:36:30]  And I never checked the clock.
[01:36:31]  Do you think that I could have been abducted?
[01:36:33]  I don't remember any extraterrestrials.
[01:36:35]  All right.
[01:36:35]  Well, the thing about the animals, though, is very interesting.
[01:36:40]  Ann, could that have been an abduction?
[01:36:44]  Well, you say you were paralyzed for three minutes.
[01:36:48]  In other words, you were aware of the passage of time.
[01:36:53]  Yes.
[01:36:54]  Usually in an abduction, there is missing time, a big missing time that they can't account for.
[01:37:05]  In other words, this caller had a linear awareness of time.
[01:37:07]  I get what you're saying.
[01:37:08]  But what he did say about the animals was interesting.
[01:37:11]  Yes, it was.
[01:37:13]  Are there any cases that you're aware of, Anne, in which animals in the vicinity of the person being abducted, whether they be domestic cats, dogs, or whatever, were also affected by the abduction?
[01:37:26]  Well, in one of the Tuhunga Canyon contact abductions, the dog and the cat, owned by the two young girls, young women, were hiding under the stove when they found themselves back in the cabin.
[01:37:41]  Or when the passage of time had ended and they were trying to find out what happened.
[01:37:46]  Their dog and cat were hovering, huddled under the stove, quivering.
[01:37:52]  Wow.
[01:37:53]  I've got you.
[01:37:54]  Which is very unusual for them.
[01:37:56]  Yes.
[01:37:56]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Anne Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:37:59]  Good morning.
[01:37:59]  Yeah, hi, Art.
[01:38:00]  Hi.
[01:38:01]  Yeah, I'm wondering.
[01:38:02]  Last month on the 26th, Art did a show about rods.
[01:38:05]  Did you get a chance to hear that?
[01:38:07]  Oh, the rods show.
[01:38:08]  All right.
[01:38:08]  That's Jose Ask Amelia.
[01:38:10]  And that's yet another question.
[01:38:12]  Are you familiar at all with Jose Escamelia and this business of rods?
[01:38:17]  Well, yes, I saw it at the Mufon conference last year when I spoke there.
[01:38:21]  You cannot look at that videotape and not be impressed with his research.
[01:38:26]  It's amazing.
[01:38:27]  And he keeps on researching and getting experts to study the tape, which is the way you should do.
[01:38:33]  Exactly.
[01:38:34]  You shouldn't just draw conclusions.
[01:38:36]  So it could be, Anne, that any number of things could be coexisting with us on Earth, either all the time or part-time from elsewhere.
[01:38:49]  Yes.
[01:38:50]  That is the contention that surrounds these creatures that are spoken of in folklore and in philosophy and religious writings by every major culture of the world throughout the millennia.
[01:39:06]  There's the jinns of the Muslim world.
[01:39:09]  They're mentioned in the Quran.
[01:39:11]  Every sixth page, there's a mention of the jinns.
[01:39:16]  You know, they exist right along with man.
[01:39:19]  The Celtic fairies, they've existed for 2,000 years.
[01:39:26]  The elementals in the Buddhist religion.
[01:39:28]  Elementals.
[01:39:29]  The Menahuni in the Hawaiian Islands.
[01:39:32]  And even the trickster of the Native American cultures.
[01:39:38]  They are known by different names in different cultures.
[01:39:41]  And while some of it could be just overblown myth, without a doubt, there's too much of it that there not be a base of fact somewhere back there.
[01:39:51]  Yes.
[01:39:52]  I'm reading a book now that was written in 1701 by a Catholic theologian whose name is Lodovoko Sinistrari.
[01:40:01]  Yes.
[01:40:02]  Mentioned in my book.
[01:40:03]  And he was of the opinion that the creatures that the Muslim called jinns and the medieval people called incubi were a rational order of creation that existed on earth alongside humans, but on a hidden plane, and that they were the so-called gods of the ancients.
[01:40:28]  Oh, that's entirely reasonable.
[01:40:29]  And do you think that it's probable that you will have the answer to this mystery in your lifetime?
[01:40:37]  I would hope so, but I wouldn't count on it.
[01:40:42]  That's a good, fair answer.
[01:40:43]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Anne Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:40:45]  Good morning.
[01:40:46]  Hi, Art.
[01:40:47]  Hello.
[01:40:48]  What is this?
[01:40:48]  Hi, I'm Tim in Phoenix.
[01:40:50]  Yes, Jim.
[01:40:52]  Boy, given the subject matter at the beginning of this show and now... I would prefer not to go there right now.
[01:40:57]  I just wanted to say you're a true planetary hero of the guts and the mind.
[01:41:01]  Thank you.
[01:41:02]  All right.
[01:41:02]  Second of all, you know what, there's a lot of lesser-known music that a lot of us listeners don't know how to get.
[01:41:10]  I think it'd be great if you came up with a collection, like a CD collection of some of this material.
[01:41:16]  It has been suggested.
[01:41:17]  Do you have a question for Anne?
[01:41:18]  Yes, sir.
[01:41:18]  About the shape-shifting.
[01:41:23]  Hi, Ann.
[01:41:24]  Are you there?
[01:41:24]  Right there.
[01:41:25]  I was wondering if you possibly thought, given the fact that there are parallel theory of parallel universes, and given the fact that, given the fact that the subject's mind is in a paranormal state, if he's actually rippling back and forth between the dimension and seeing different variations of the same being in different forms.
[01:41:52]  Well, of course, the parallel universe, I would have to have that proven to me, you see, before I could answer that.
[01:41:59]  Good for you.
[01:42:00]  The research I have done in philosophical and religious writings about these creatures indicates that they do have the facility to shapeshift, to change to any guise they want, which will either frighten or appeal to the person that they're interacting with.
[01:42:20]  I wonder, Anne, if they actually are changing themselves or they simply are able to control our minds so that we see what they want us to see.
[01:42:34]  It could be either art.
[01:42:36]  Sure.
[01:42:36]  I'd like to see it done in order to try to get my own impression of it.
[01:42:41]  I have never seen it, you know, anything shapeshift like that.
[01:42:46]  And if you had the opportunity to be abducted, would you take it or would you run?
[01:42:52]  No, I would use resistance techniques and tell them to shove off.
[01:42:59]  I don't want to fool around with them.
[01:43:00]  You're my kind of gal.
[01:43:01]  I do the same thing.
[01:43:02]  First time caller line, you're on the air with Ann Ruffle and Art Bell.
[01:43:05]  Good morning.
[01:43:06]  Hi.
[01:43:06]  Hello.
[01:43:07]  Hi, how are you?
[01:43:08]  Okay, sir.
[01:43:09]  And Ann?
[01:43:10]  Hi there.
[01:43:11]  Hi.
[01:43:12]  I've had an experience.
[01:43:14]  Mind you, it was an out-of-body experience.
[01:43:18]  I was meditating at the time, and I went across a person that was, you know, a dwarf-like creature.
[01:43:28]  And this creature, you know, opened a doorway into which I stepped, and I experienced a totally different reality.
[01:43:38]  Now, my question is, was it simply an out-of-body experience?
[01:43:42]  I don't have any physical evidence to back it up.
[01:43:46]  Well, Anne?
[01:43:48]  Well, a lot of the people that I have talked to indicate that their abductions were in an out-of-body state.
[01:43:56]  They know what out-of-body state feels like because they have done it, or they can bring it on at will.
[01:44:03]  And they say that the abduction was done out-of-body because as they went through the window, they looked back at the bed, and there was their body on the bed.
[01:44:12]  Well, now, see, that's really interesting, Anne, because a lot of people who study and have written books about OBEs will tell you loudly and again and again, oh, nothing bad can happen while you're out of your body.
[01:44:24]  And if anything bad begins to happen, boom, you snap right back in and you're protected.
[01:44:30]  Well, you have to protect yourself before you go out.
[01:44:32]  You have to know what out-of-body means and do it only in the daytime, I would advise.
[01:44:41]  Because at night, there are unwholesome entities hovering in the dark.
[01:44:46]  They seem to like the dark.
[01:44:48]  That's why most abductions occur at night.
[01:44:52]  They also like closets.
[01:44:53]  I'm convinced of that.
[01:44:54]  I never go to sleep with my closet door open, ever.
[01:44:58]  Ever since I was a little boy, first remember, I always closed my closet or cry for my closet to be closed before I go to bed, and I still do that today.
[01:45:07]  Closet monsters.
[01:45:08]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ann Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:45:10]  Hi.
[01:45:11]  Hello.
[01:45:12]  Hello.
[01:45:13]  Yes.
[01:45:14]  Art and Ann, I do have a question.
[01:45:18]  Go ahead.
[01:45:19]  Would there be any correlation of, say, the UFO abductions, UFO sightings, as far as what happened in Roswell or whatever happened before Roswell or after, that these guys from another dimension or whatever you want to call it, we may have prisoners of theirs here.
[01:45:46]  I mean, after all, we are a warring planet.
[01:45:49]  We're an aggressive planet or peoples.
[01:45:52]  You know, I never thought about that.
[01:45:53]  I mean, we're always talking about it the other way around.
[01:45:55]  Man saying, could we have some of them in custody?
[01:46:00]  Could this secret government, this cabal, whatever it is that holds this information above our elected officials, could we have some of them?
[01:46:08]  I never thought about that one.
[01:46:12]  I would not think that we could keep them because they have the ability to materialize and dematerialize to pass through solid matter.
[01:46:20]  That's a good point.
[01:46:21]  So if they didn't want to stay with us, which I wouldn't see why they would want to, they would simply go back to their own hidden plane or dimension.
[01:46:29]  Oh, no, that makes sense.
[01:46:30]  That's a good answer.
[01:46:31]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ann Druffel and Art Bell.
[01:46:34]  Good morning.
[01:46:35]  Good morning.
[01:46:36]  Where are you, ma'am?
[01:46:37]  I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina.
[01:46:38]  Okay.
[01:46:39]  Wanda.
[01:46:39]  Yes, Wanda.
[01:46:40]  Yes, I was calling.
[01:46:41]  You mentioned earlier, or made a statement about mind control.
[01:46:46]  Oh, yes.
[01:46:46]  And I wanted to ask Anne, in all of her research, if she had ran across people or interviews with people who, out of nowhere, who'd had no interest in UFOs, if all of a sudden something triggered, like someone asked a question and a comment was made, like a pre-programmed comment, and they both went out and a UFO appeared.
[01:47:12]  Has that ever happened, and what would that be?
[01:47:17]  I don't know.
[01:47:18]  I know that things like dreams or things that you hear can trigger memories that can start a whole new life for you or a whole new interest in life.
[01:47:33]  Are you saying that you heard something about UFOs and suddenly developed an interest in them?
[01:47:40]  Yes, this happened to me.
[01:47:42]  A lady came over to sell life insurance.
[01:47:45]  And when she walked in the door, she just said something that she had heard something about UFOs, did I know anything about them?

=== Forbidden Planet Mystery (06:02) ===

[01:47:53]  And out of my mouth, not in my thoughts, the only time it's ever happened, I said, well, if you'd like to see one, you know, step out on my terrace.
[01:48:03]  And I've never called my tattoo a terrace.
[01:48:06]  And we walked outside, just like robots.
[01:48:11]  And we saw one at an angle.
[01:48:15]  It came right over us, and that's always bothered me.
[01:48:18]  All right.
[01:48:18]  Well, that brings then to mind the following question, Anne, and I think this is a really good one.
[01:48:23]  One of my favorite movies of all time is Forbidden Planet.
[01:48:26]  And I don't know whether you ever saw that, but basically it dealt with the monster from the id.
[01:48:31]  And what this lady just said could be looked at two ways.
[01:48:35]  Either that she had some sort of precognitive message that something was going to appear, or that she caused something to appear.
[01:48:50]  The UFO field is very strange.
[01:48:52]  All sorts of strange things happen.
[01:48:54]  There's a woman called Stella Lansing that has been followed by a psychiatrist who's a UFO researcher for years and years, and she can go out and take a picture of a UFO in a park hovering over a man's head.
[01:49:11]  And no one sees the UFO, but it comes out on her film.
[01:49:15]  This may be related in some way to that.
[01:49:18]  But Stella Lansing can do this at will, whereas this happened once to you.
[01:49:24]  But see, that would suggest, that really would suggest that she is projecting this.
[01:49:31]  And when you get into the area of ghosts and poltergeist and that sort of thing, the researchers, the serious researchers, will tell you that young teenage girls are particularly prone to having these things occur around them.
[01:49:47]  They have raging hormones and raging emotions and that this kind of intense emotion and energy from a young lady produces these kinds of things around them.
[01:50:00]  Now, why wouldn't that necessarily apply to ufology?
[01:50:04]  Well, it would because there is a strong psychic element in ufology, straight down the line, from the physical craft up to the abductors, whatever they are.
[01:50:17]  So the answer is it may apply.
[01:50:20]  All right, Western Rockies, you're on the air with Ann Ruffel and Art Bell.
[01:50:23]  Good morning.
[01:50:24]  Hi, this is Lisa from Las Vegas.
[01:50:26]  Hello, Lisa.
[01:50:28]  And I wanted to ask Anne if she has ever heard of or knows anything about a kind of alien called the Pleiadians.
[01:50:39]  Yes, I've heard about the Pleiadians for maybe 20 years.
[01:50:47]  I'd like to see them present their passports saying, I'm from the Pleiades.
[01:50:53]  I'm very skeptical about the stories that the entities give to the abductees.
[01:51:00]  And what about the Billy Meyer case, perhaps one of the most famous involving the Pleiadians?
[01:51:06]  Well, of course, Billy Myers craft and creatures were supposed to be from the Pleiades.
[01:51:13]  Right.
[01:51:13]  But that was thoroughly investigated by several researchers, including Cal Korf.
[01:51:19]  And it's generally recognized in the UFO field, in the scientifically oriented UFO field, that those photographs were of models.
[01:51:31]  Of dubious origin, huh?
[01:51:33]  Yes.
[01:51:34]  Yes.
[01:51:36]  It may be that Myers did have one or two true interactions with creatures like this, but that he built up the stories from it.
[01:51:50]  And if I were to back you up against the wall, and I were to say of all the UFO reports and of all the abduction reports and all the rest of it, how much of it do you think falls into what you just laid out with regard to the Meyer case?
[01:52:06]  How much of it falls into that category?
[01:52:09]  I would think that in the early days in the 1957, about maybe 30% fell into that category.
[01:52:22]  It's getting harder and harder to distinguish the real from the fraudulent now.
[01:52:28]  Truly it is.
[01:52:29]  I would say maybe 50-50.
[01:52:31]  We really live in a time where every photograph, no matter what its source, is suspect because we live in an age now where, of course, anything can be manipulated, anything can be done.
[01:52:46]  And it's kind of a shame in a way because there was a day when that really wasn't the case.
[01:52:51]  I suppose you could get a double exposure or something, but basically photographic evidence was thought of as, you know, rather convincing.
[01:53:00]  Today, people just go, photograph?
[01:53:02]  Even a clear one?
[01:53:04]  They can fake anything.
[01:53:05]  Look at the movies.
[01:53:06]  Well, yes, they can do anything with computer enhancement equipment.
[01:53:11]  But that's why we are going back in Southern California, a three-person team is reinvestigating the Heflin photos that were taken in 1965.
[01:53:22]  They're a series of four taken by a very reliable man, and they're Polaroid prints of the originals, and we are investigating those.
[01:53:32]  How clear are they?
[01:53:34]  They are very clear, and we're getting exciting information from them.

=== Hoping to See a UFO (07:22) ===

[01:53:38]  What do they show?
[01:53:40]  It shows a craft crossing a highway at about maybe 150 feet away.
[01:53:47]  It's not too high, maybe 100 feet high.
[01:53:52]  It does a few little acrobatics and then off, leaving a ring.
[01:53:58]  It blows off a ring of bluish-black smoke that was around the craft while it was traveling in flight in front of the witness and the photographer.
[01:54:10]  But as it left suddenly, it blew off this ring and left it in the sky.
[01:54:16]  All right, Ann, we are at the top of another hour, and I always like to ask my guests whether they're able to stay for the final hour.
[01:54:24]  Some guests prefer to go to bed.
[01:54:26]  Some are awake enough that they hang in there, and it's all up to you.
[01:54:31]  Sure.
[01:54:32]  What is it, too?
[01:54:33]  It's coming up on 2 o'clock now.
[01:54:36]  I'm a night person.
[01:54:37]  Are you?
[01:54:38]  Certainly.
[01:54:38]  All right.
[01:54:39]  That sounds like ready to go to me.
[01:54:42]  So hang in there.
[01:54:44]  We'll be right back.
[01:54:45]  Ann Druffel, who's been investigating UFOs and abductions for 42 years, is my guest.
[01:54:52]  She is a very serious researcher.
[01:54:54]  If you have questions, that's what we're here for.
[01:54:57]  And we are Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Art Bell.
[01:55:01]  Good morning.
[01:55:02]  This is Premier Networks.
[01:55:03]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[01:55:09]  You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[01:55:30]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from June 1st, 1999.
[01:55:34]  Good morning, everybody.
[01:55:35]  We have a serious researcher on the air with us this morning, Anne Druffel, researching ufology and abductions for 42 years.
[01:55:46]  That's a long time.
[01:55:47]  She has come to some conclusions, some fascinating conclusions.
[01:55:51]  We'll get back to Anne in a moment.
[01:55:53]  Stay right where you are.
[01:56:14]  Once again, back to our guest, And Druffel, hanging in there very well.
[01:56:17]  Apparently, indeed a night person, huh?
[01:56:19]  Yes.
[01:56:21]  Thank you.
[01:56:21]  I think people, yeah, in this field tend toward the night times.
[01:56:26]  I'm not sure why that is, but...
[01:56:28]  Hoping to see a UFO in the sky.
[01:56:31]  You know, I can't say that I'm hoping to.
[01:56:34]  I saw one, and to this day, it still disturbs me.
[01:56:39]  I guess all in all, I'm not sorry I saw it, but it affected me, Anne.
[01:56:45]  I've read about what you saw.
[01:56:47]  Startling.
[01:56:48]  Yeah.
[01:56:48]  Yeah, it affected me, and it always will affect me.
[01:56:51]  And I'll, you know, it's one of those things that will be with you till the day you die.
[01:56:54]  All right.
[01:56:54]  Well, anyway, back we go.
[01:56:56]  A lot of people want to talk to you.
[01:56:57]  First time caller line, you're on the air with Ann Ruffle.
[01:56:59]  Hi.
[01:57:01]  Yes.
[01:57:02]  This is Paul from Mobile.
[01:57:04]  Hello, Paul.
[01:57:06]  I'd like to ask Miss Ann what I'd I'd like her opinion on something.
[01:57:13]  I about six months ago, I was visited by a I would call it an E.T.
[01:57:26]  And when I told my family about it, I spent about two weeks in front of a psychiatrist.
[01:57:37]  Oh, yes.
[01:57:39]  And I think I'm echoing what a previous caller had told you down here in the Bible Bill, that if that happens to us, we just shut up and be real quiet about it.
[01:57:54]  And I learned my lesson because the psychiatrist, the first thing he asked me was, did I do drugs?
[01:58:03]  And I said, no.
[01:58:05]  And he said, well, do you drink alcohol?
[01:58:07]  And I said, sure, I drink.
[01:58:08]  I drink a few beers every now and then.
[01:58:10]  And they decided that that's what it was, that I was hallucinating.
[01:58:15]  Oh.
[01:58:18]  That's very sad.
[01:58:19]  Anyway, but I just wanted to...
[01:58:21]  They should accept your statements for what you saw.
[01:58:26]  And I'll look at that.
[01:58:27]  Do you know about the Mutual UFO Network?
[01:58:30]  No, ma'am.
[01:58:32]  I would be sure that they would have somebody in your state which would be a state director for your area.
[01:58:41]  Could I give the address?
[01:58:43]  I'll go right ahead.
[01:58:44]  Absolutely.
[01:58:44]  Yes, ma'am.
[01:58:45]  Yes, right, Mufon.
[01:58:47]  That's M-U-F-O-N.
[01:58:49]  It stands for Mutual UFO Network.
[01:58:52]  And it's 103 Old Town Road.
[01:58:57]  And Old Town is one word, and it ends with an E, Old Town Road.
[01:59:03]  And it's Sigin, S-E-G-U-I-N is the town in Texas.
[01:59:09]  Right.
[01:59:10]  78155.
[01:59:12]  And the international director there is Mr. Walt Andres and ask if there is a state director in your area that you might contact.
[01:59:23]  All right, Walt Andres, I have, in years past, interviewed Waltz.
[01:59:27]  He's been at this a long time like you have, huh?
[01:59:29]  Yes, he has.
[01:59:30]  Uh-huh.
[01:59:31]  All right.
[01:59:32]  Of course, I'm not speaking on behalf of MUFON in your appearance on your show.
[01:59:37]  No, I understand.
[01:59:38]  Because it's better not to do that.
[01:59:43]  It's not to work as a freelancer.
[01:59:45]  You have plenty to say for yourself, anyway.
[01:59:47]  That's right.
[01:59:47]  Wild Carline, you're on there with Anne Druffel and Art Bell High.
[01:59:50]  Hi.
[01:59:51]  Hello.
[01:59:51]  How are you?
[01:59:52]  Where are you?
[01:59:53]  I'm in Illinois.
[01:59:54]  Illinois, right?
[01:59:55]  Yes, I am.
[01:59:56]  And look, you talked about shapeshifters, and this was extremely interesting to me because I have had experience with being visited since I was about 10 years old.
[02:00:09]  And I've seen three, four, now four different creatures so far.
[02:00:16]  And the one interesting night was there was a lizard creature that came in.
[02:00:21]  And the interesting thing that you said was, you know, how you can make them go away.
[02:00:25]  Yes.
[02:00:26]  That's all I did.
[02:00:27]  Pardon me?
[02:00:28]  That's the idea.
[02:00:29]  That's all I did.
[02:00:31]  And then I had the little wrinkly guy, and I got really mad at him because he had his little probe out, and they always seemed to go through the nose or somewhere like that.
[02:00:40]  And I actually swore at him and said a very bad word.

=== Ley Lines and Abductions (07:31) ===

[02:00:43]  And he actually ran out of the room.
[02:00:46]  And then at the end of my bed was a very tall guy with like a dark hood on.
[02:00:53]  Very tall.
[02:00:54]  Yes.
[02:00:54]  But not a Nor, I don't know if he was Nordic or anything because he was just dark.
[02:00:58]  And then I kind of apologized to them because the guy in the dark thing said, you don't realize what we've done for you.
[02:01:05]  You don't realize.
[02:01:06]  And then the next thing I knew, I was out on my deck and they were both pointing to the moon.
[02:01:12]  Is that interesting or what?
[02:01:14]  It's very weird.
[02:01:16]  Well, you see, I would say that the one in the hood that said that you don't know what we've done for you, these creatures are deceptive.
[02:01:29]  Okay?
[02:01:29]  That is in their nature.
[02:01:32]  It's described in the Quran.
[02:01:35]  the Muslim Bible, jinns are described as deceptive.
[02:01:41]  They said some human beings have sought to trust jinns, but they were led into further error.
[02:01:48]  That is a quote from the Koran.
[02:01:50]  Mean like bad things?
[02:01:51]  Yes.
[02:01:51]  And the jinn of the Koran is has eight characteristics in common with our American UFO abductor, the the UFO entity.
[02:02:05]  So that that's what makes me and other researchers think that they are all the same type of being but presenting themselves in different guises in different cultures.
[02:02:18]  But don't you know, if it happens, again, don't let them make you feel guilty or be led into further error.
[02:02:29]  Because they are receptive by nature.
[02:02:31]  In other words, they're kind of evil.
[02:02:34]  They're evil in that they delight in harassing and traumatizing human beings.
[02:02:42]  They are not evil essentially.
[02:02:44]  Okay.
[02:02:45]  Because according to the Quran, they were created like human beings with their own moral code.
[02:02:54]  But these the ones that are harassing human beings and presenting themselves as extraterrestrial visitors are stepping outside the limits that the Creator set out for them.
[02:03:10]  Thank you very much, Anne.
[02:03:11]  Young Art.
[02:03:12]  Thank you.
[02:03:12]  That was good.
[02:03:14]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Anne Druffel and Art Bell.
[02:03:16]  Good morning.
[02:03:17]  Hello, Art.
[02:03:18]  This is Jay from Columbus, Ohio.
[02:03:20]  Yes, sir.
[02:03:21]  And I got a question for Anne.
[02:03:23]  Okay, you have hum in your audio, but go ahead.
[02:03:26]  Okay, thank you.
[02:03:28]  I was wanting to know, does the Bermuda Triangle and alien occurrences have anything to do with the disappearing planes?
[02:03:39]  That sounds like a lot of questions all in one.
[02:03:42]  Of course, planes have been said to disappear in the Bermuda Triangle.
[02:03:47]  Have you looked, Anne, at the oddities of some geographic locations in the world?
[02:03:54]  There are oddities in Southern California that I've explored very, very thoroughly called straight lines.
[02:04:02]  Or ley lines?
[02:04:03]  Ley lines, yes.
[02:04:03]  I don't know if you're familiar.
[02:04:05]  We have ley lines in Southern California just as there are in every continent in the world.
[02:04:09]  Magnetic lines.
[02:04:11]  Well, I don't know if they're magnetic.
[02:04:13]  They may have something to do with that.
[02:04:15]  But it it seems that these close encounters and abductions and landings appear along the straight lines, the ley lines.
[02:04:24]  Now, I don't know about the Bermuda Triangle.
[02:04:27]  Not living in that area, I haven't had the chance to research firsthand.
[02:04:32]  Could these ley lines have anything to do with the ability to move through our atmosphere?
[02:04:41]  In other words, could it have something to do with the way the propulsion system works in these craft?
[02:04:47]  Well, that is one theory.
[02:04:49]  But what I've discovered about the ley lines, especially where they intersect, is that altered states are entered into very easily.
[02:04:58]  And that is probably why abductions appear along them, because the person goes into altered states very eavi yet very easily.
[02:05:07]  Gotcha.
[02:05:08]  All right.
[02:05:09]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Anne and Arch.
[02:05:12]  Hello.
[02:05:12]  Hey, Art.
[02:05:13]  Lovely show.
[02:05:14]  Anne, I have two quick questions.
[02:05:16]  When I was in Japan, I didn't really we have documentaries about these abductions, but they were focused on Western culture.
[02:05:23]  I was wondering if you had researches done for the Asian side, like Far East, Japan, Korea.
[02:05:29]  And also, do they focus at certain types of people?
[02:05:34]  Like if there are psychological patterns that they focus on or their social status or is there any pattern that they when they abduct people?
[02:05:45]  Well, now there are two questions there.
[02:05:49]  I'm in contact with a Muslim who is a veterinary in Malaysia.
[02:05:57]  I don't know how close that is to Japan.
[02:06:00]  But apparently there is a strong Muslim population in Malaysia.
[02:06:05]  And this man is very interested in the fact that there are no abductions reported in Malaysia.
[02:06:14]  And he thinks maybe the persons who are contacted just assume that the contactor, the abductor, is a jinn, which is firmly in the Muslim culture and described in the Quran, which is the Muslim Bible.
[02:06:31]  And so they don't bother to report it as an abduction by a UFO entity.
[02:06:37]  It's something that they know what it is.
[02:06:39]  It's a jinn.
[02:06:41]  But then my correspondent in Malaysia also says that in Malaysia there is another type of abduction by supernatural beings known locally as the Bunians, that's B-U-N-I-A-N.
[02:06:54]  And local folks believe that these beings from a parallel unseen world sometimes abduct humans temporarily and also steal babies from the womb.
[02:07:07]  So you see, that's another culture with other types of abducting creatures.
[02:07:15]  I like to have a style of abducting in different cultures, like how they appear and all that.
[02:07:24]  They appear in different shapes and their interaction with the humans is slightly different.
[02:07:30]  Like in the jinns, the sexual tampering is more or less like regular sexual intercourse.
[02:07:40]  But of course, in the Americans, in America, we have this Puritan upbringing, so to speak, that we would not accept that.
[02:07:52]  And so they present it as hybridization.
[02:07:56]  Which is, I see exactly what you're saying.

=== Strange Noises and Voices (03:01) ===

[02:08:00]  They adjust to our approach, our prejudices, our...
[02:08:08]  Yes, I understand.
[02:08:10]  First time calling a line, you're on the air with Andruffel and R. Bell High.
[02:08:13]  Yes.
[02:08:14]  I was wondering if you might have heard of something similar to what I've experienced.
[02:08:21]  I heard this very, very loud sound.
[02:08:24]  Almost sounded like paper tearing, amplified thousands of watts, echoing throughout the house.
[02:08:32]  It was like a sh-sh, sh, shh, shh, shh.
[02:08:36]  And after I heard that sound, I heard voices downstairs in my house.
[02:08:42]  And I heard somebody walking up the stairwell.
[02:08:45]  And I got scared.
[02:08:46]  My heartbeat started pumping.
[02:08:48]  And I think that these beings were looking for something in the house.
[02:08:57]  Because the next morning, all these things in the house were disturbed.
[02:09:02]  And the VCR was one of those old pop-up ones.
[02:09:07]  And it was running while the thing was popped up, which it can't do and doesn't do.
[02:09:14]  And the doll case was open.
[02:09:17]  Several things have been looked through.
[02:09:19]  And about two weeks earlier, before this occurred, I heard a very loud sonic boom, almost like something had maybe crashed near the house.
[02:09:34]  And several nights after I heard that sonic boom, my dad woke me up at like 2 or 3 in the morning and showed me and my mom this UFO that was hanging out over these trees.
[02:09:49]  Oh, boy.
[02:09:50]  And the really strange thing is, is I took a photo of the house while it was under construction.
[02:09:57]  It was out in West Virginia.
[02:09:59]  And it showed up a UFO in the background, but you couldn't see it with the naked eye.
[02:10:03]  Now, I've heard of similar things on ball lightning research in Russia where they could take photos and the ball lightning would show up on a photo, but it wouldn't show up on the human eye.
[02:10:16]  But I was wondering about that sound because it was so eerie.
[02:10:20]  I've never heard anything like that ever.
[02:10:23]  And we had a dog that was sleeping downstairs.
[02:10:25]  It wasn't disturbed.
[02:10:26]  All right, Ann, any comments on all of that?
[02:10:29]  Well, the only thing I can suggest, the noises you heard in your house, the Muslims who have this strong belief in jinns, and jinns are very similar to our American UFO abductors.

=== Talk Jinns (03:50) ===

[02:10:48]  They equate the activity of the jinns with poltergeist activity and other types of paraphysical phenomena.
[02:10:58]  They believe that the jinns cause it.
[02:11:00]  All right.
[02:11:02]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ann Druffel.
[02:11:05]  Hi.
[02:11:06]  Hello.
[02:11:06]  Hello.
[02:11:07]  Oh, hello.
[02:11:08]  Hello.
[02:11:09]  Hi, I was listening to the show last night, and they had Robert on, who wrote a book.
[02:11:16]  I guess he has some sort of fair coming up in the San Francisco area.
[02:11:20]  And he kept talking about, he was making a lot of references to the Bible and to the Malchester Dicks and to the Palladians.
[02:11:30]  And then the host said something about the Vulcans.
[02:11:37]  And then tonight you talk about the Jinns.
[02:11:40]  And then you mentioned earlier about the Puerto Rican Chupacamer.
[02:11:46]  Chupicombers.
[02:11:47]  Yes.
[02:11:47]  And what I'm finding out is it seems to me that, I don't know, at this point, I sort of need sort of an etymological breakdown of what exactly, like, well, you talk about jinns, and of course, if I think of gin, I immediately think of, you know, the Scottish booze.
[02:12:09]  But what that means is that, okay, what does that mean is what he's asking.
[02:12:15]  It's not the booze, right?
[02:12:18]  Scottish booze?
[02:12:19]  Yeah, yeah, gin.
[02:12:21]  Jinn, you know, jinn.
[02:12:23]  He's got it confused.
[02:12:25]  J-I-N-N.
[02:12:26]  Right, he wants a definition of J-I-N-N.
[02:12:30]  The jinn is a member of a corporate group of rational beings called Al-Jinn, A-L, hyphen, J-I-N-N, and that's the way they're described in the Koran, in the chapter about them.
[02:12:46]  They are irrational creatures that live together with mankind, but hidden on the earth plane.
[02:12:54]  That is the way it is described.
[02:12:57]  See, that's just the way rods are described.
[02:12:59]  And hold on.
[02:13:00]  We'll get right back to you.
[02:13:02]  We are at the bottom of the hour.
[02:13:04]  And we'll do another segment with Anne Druffel.
[02:13:07]  Abductions, UFOs.
[02:13:09]  She's been looking into them now for 42 years.
[02:13:15]  I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
[02:13:19]  The Trip Back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More Somewhere in Time coming up.
[02:13:45]  Somewhere in Time with Art Bells continues.
[02:13:48]  Courtesy of Premier Networks.
[02:13:51]  Good morning, everybody.
[02:13:52]  Anne Druffel is here.
[02:13:53]  She's talking about things that people usually talk about in whispers.
[02:13:58]  Now to Ann Druffle.
[02:14:18]  Ann, are you there?
[02:14:19]  Oh, yes.
[02:14:20]  Good.
[02:14:20]  Hanging in there.

=== A Haunting Encounter (15:42) ===

[02:14:21]  You're doing very well.
[02:14:22]  Yes, I have a cup of tea.
[02:14:24]  Good.
[02:14:24]  All right.
[02:14:25]  Well, a cup of tea in the East of the Rockies line with Ann Druffel.
[02:14:28]  You're on the air.
[02:14:29]  Hi.
[02:14:30]  Yes.
[02:14:30]  Is it me, Art?
[02:14:31]  It's you, yes.
[02:14:32]  Where are you?
[02:14:33]  Oh, I'm on the Gulf Coast in Mississippi.
[02:14:36]  This is Mary.
[02:14:37]  Hi, Mary.
[02:14:38]  I actually, I'm so very glad to have a chance to speak with your guest because there's something happened to me about 40 years ago that's just absolutely haunted me ever since.
[02:14:48]  And I'm just sitting here almost a cold chill trying to even talk about it.
[02:14:55]  It was before I really knew anything about UFOs.
[02:15:00]  Shortly after this happened to me, it was when that happened to the two gentlemen in Pascagoula when they were taken aboard that craft.
[02:15:08]  Oh, yes.
[02:15:09]  And I live just about maybe 20, 30 miles from where that happened.
[02:15:13]  But at the time, I knew nothing about it.
[02:15:15]  I was just going about my own little life.
[02:15:18]  But I awoke one morning, and it was so strange.
[02:15:23]  It was as though I hadn't even been asleep.
[02:15:25]  And I had, I always, you know, I wear clothes, you know, pajamas, long night gowns, whatever.
[02:15:32]  And I awoke with no clothes.
[02:15:36]  And I was, you know, just so like I was out of place.
[02:15:40]  And this is something I've never told anyone, not even my husband, my children, no one.
[02:15:46]  And I can remember just fumbling around trying to find, you know, where am I, what's happened, where are my clothes?
[02:15:53]  And I was out in the yard.
[02:15:55]  And how they got there, I will never know.
[02:15:58]  And all I could remember was that when I went to bed, it was as though the ceiling of my room was no ceiling, and though I could see the stars and like a very large, bright star above the house.
[02:16:16]  And we call this an out-of-pajama experience.
[02:16:22]  Thank you for making me feel a little bit more light about it.
[02:16:27]  And it was so strange then, and it's still so strange, you know.
[02:16:31]  And when I got up, this is the really strange part that never left me.
[02:16:36]  I heard like a voice that came from nowhere, but inside my head, and it meant nothing to me then at all.
[02:16:43]  And it said, tomorrow, your feet will be on Phaeton.
[02:16:48]  And, you know, it was just, what is going on?
[02:16:52]  And a few years after that, my son brought a book to me.
[02:16:58]  He says, Mom, I believe you'd enjoy reading this.
[02:17:00]  And it was the book called Worlds in Collision by Velikovsky.
[02:17:04]  Yes.
[02:17:05]  And I said, well, okay, I'll look at it sometime.
[02:17:08]  So I started thumbing through it.
[02:17:11]  And lo and behold, I was absolutely shocked when I came upon the chapter on Phaeton, which he says was Venus.
[02:17:21]  And then recently, I've read in this book by Mr. Hale, I believe it was, on the comet Hillbop.
[02:17:30]  Oh, yes.
[02:17:31]  And in it, he describes a small, but it's a little small rock, you know, that's going around sort of like a comet would is called Phaeton.
[02:17:47]  And, you know, this is something that's just haunting me.
[02:17:51]  It's like all these years, like I've been drawn to something and I don't know what it is.
[02:17:55]  Well, a lot of it.
[02:17:56]  There's something missing.
[02:17:57]  Yeah, a lot of researchers would say, go get hypnotized and find out what it was.
[02:18:01]  I don't think Anne Druffel will say that to you.
[02:18:03]  No, I wouldn't do that anyway.
[02:18:05]  Let's see what she does say, Anne.
[02:18:06]  Yeah, I would appreciate it.
[02:18:07]  Okay, Anne.
[02:18:08]  Well, if you wonder about things in the past like that, which are very strange, I would suggest that you try to dream information.
[02:18:19]  Have you ever tried to do that?
[02:18:20]  Well, no, but since you mentioned dream, sometime after that, I don't know if it was a dream.
[02:18:26]  It seemed so real, it didn't seem like a dream.
[02:18:29]  I found myself in an area which, a little piece of land on the water, and I was getting into a craft, a round craft, with two beings in it.
[02:18:44]  And the next thing I knew, I was way out in space, and I could look out and I could see things, you know, like the stars and all.
[02:18:52]  And suddenly we were on a body of some sort, and it was all gray, like you would imagine the moon would be.
[02:19:00]  And it was all gray and pitted, and no grass, no trees, no nothing.
[02:19:05]  And we're up on a hill, and looking down, it was like there was a being beside me, like a guide, and was showing me down below there was like a little village, and there was a dog, and there were some people there.
[02:19:19]  Like there was a homespun.
[02:19:21]  That really begins to sound like an abduction.
[02:19:23]  And that's a very interesting suggestion you gave her.
[02:19:26]  In other words, to actually request of your own subconscious or to make a conscious wish, I guess, to your subconscious to produce a dream to answer your question, right?
[02:19:40]  Yes, to have a pencil and paper by your bedside when you go to bed, requesting your subconscious to give you information about what you wonder about, either in a dream or in, if it is reality, to let you know it's reality.
[02:19:57]  You know, Anne, there's something that I really would love to know.
[02:20:01]  I'm sure you don't have the answer to it, but it is true that if you have a dream, no matter how vivid the dream, you wake up as though you're still in it.
[02:20:10]  It's so vivid you could give every detail, and then within minutes, as you drink your first cup of coffee or tea or whatever, and you have a cigarette, if you smoke, you shouldn't, whatever it is you're doing, the details of it fade to the point where if you've not written it down, it'll be gone within the hour.
[02:20:29]  Exactly.
[02:20:30]  That's why I write down my dreams that I can remember.
[02:20:34]  And they're usually significant, you know, something that's going on in your life.
[02:20:39]  Sure.
[02:20:40]  But if you will dream for lucidity, ask yourself to become aware that you are either dreaming or that you are having this experience so that you will know whether or not it's an experience in an altered state or a dream.
[02:20:58]  Makes sense to me.
[02:20:59]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ann Druffel and Art Bell.
[02:21:02]  Good morning.
[02:21:03]  Good morning, Art and Ann.
[02:21:06]  I have a question for you, Anne.
[02:21:07]  I noticed that most of the questionnaires are talking about lost time.
[02:21:14]  What do you think about time compression?
[02:21:16]  I know that it isn't the Roswell and the Colonels type of time compression.
[02:21:20]  This happened to me 15 years ago.
[02:21:22]  And what it was, I went to a family reunion in a little city called Santa Maria.
[02:21:28]  It was in California.
[02:21:30]  And this particular relative of mine and her two children, they left for San Francisco at the same time I left for Los Angeles.
[02:21:37]  And I got there way too early.
[02:21:41]  And she called me up as soon as I got home, or not as soon as it, but within an hour if I got home.
[02:21:46]  She said, hey, I'm home.
[02:21:47]  Boy, I sure made a good time.
[02:21:49]  And so I calculated it out in time, okay?
[02:21:53]  And I would have had to been going 90 to 100 miles an hour.
[02:21:56]  And I had a speed control on there.
[02:21:57]  I couldn't possibly have done it.
[02:21:58]  And she would have had it done the same.
[02:22:00]  And that's the old 101.
[02:22:02]  And you don't do that.
[02:22:04]  And I have, this is 15 years ago, and I have yet, I have yet to have anybody answer how could I make it in less time than that.
[02:22:12]  So in other words, you don't know.
[02:22:14]  You have the opposite of missing time.
[02:22:16]  That is correct.
[02:22:16]  But the thing is, I had a truck driver friend that says once in a while he has the same thing.
[02:22:22]  He doesn't have a tattletale in his truck, so he has no way of verifying that.
[02:22:26]  But in my case, I know it because there's five people that can verify we got home too quickly without the speed.
[02:22:34]  All right.
[02:22:35]  And have you ever heard of such a thing?
[02:22:37]  It is the opposite of missing time.
[02:22:40]  I have not heard of that, no.
[02:22:42]  But it's interesting enough to get the people together and get their statements and write it down, perhaps in an article.
[02:22:50]  And since you are a researcher, since you're a researcher, somebody like that who would have a story that he could cooperate with other people and other people who want to report things to you, is there a way to get hold of you?
[02:23:05]  Well, if they want help in resisting aliens, alien abduction, I would be happy to have them write me at 257 Sycamore Glen.
[02:23:17]  Wait a minute.
[02:23:18]  Hold on.
[02:23:20]  Too fast.
[02:23:21]  I don't have an email or anything.
[02:23:23]  That's right.
[02:23:23]  Your address again, please?
[02:23:24]  It's 257 Sycamore Glen, Pasadena, California, 91105.
[02:23:38]  You've been, Arch, you've been presenting me as having 42 years experience in UFOs and abductions.
[02:23:47]  I wanted to point out that the first 17 years were simply, I mean, sightings of physical craft in the sky and landed on the earth with little or no interaction with any occupants.
[02:24:01]  But then 16 years of abduction work beginning in 1973 because that's when the abduction phenomenon first became proliferated.
[02:24:11]  Well, that's still a lot of years, Anne.
[02:24:13]  Yes, it is.
[02:24:13]  And then 10 years in resistance work, because I thought that if we could figure out why some people could resist alien abduction, this would give us a clue as to what these creatures really were.
[02:24:27]  Well, during your years of research, Anne, there's been a parallel occurrence that I should ask you about, and that is what's raging in Great Britain again this year, and that's these crop circles, which began as very simple circles and year by year became more and more complex and larger, taking up sometimes as much as 10 acres.
[02:24:50]  Do you have any thoughts at all on crop circles?
[02:24:52]  No, except that I would just love to see some and go into the middle of them and experience what they call an altered state that some researchers can experience in the middle or to hear sounds in there.
[02:25:05]  I'd love to research them on site, but I really have no nothing that I can offer to it because I've never researched them.
[02:25:15]  Well, if you pick the right time and go to Great Britain, you can do a lot of sitting.
[02:25:19]  Well, I'll be going to Ireland for a psychic archaeology project in July.
[02:25:25]  Maybe I'll get to England too.
[02:25:27]  There you are.
[02:25:28]  You'll be close by.
[02:25:29]  A first-time caller line, you're on the air with Anne Ruffle.
[02:25:31]  Hi.
[02:25:31]  Hi, I'm Mona.
[02:25:32]  I'm calling from Santa Barbara, California.
[02:25:34]  Hi, Mona.
[02:25:35]  Hi.
[02:25:35]  In listening to your conversation and with Mr. Bell, I'm reminded of the work of Peter Novak, who was another guest on your show, Mr. Bell.
[02:25:44]  And he wrote a book entitled The Division of Consciousness.
[02:25:47]  Oh, yes.
[02:25:48]  I don't know if you remember that.
[02:25:49]  Oh, of course I do.
[02:25:51]  It sounds now with the amount of these type of experiences that seem to have been accelerating within our lifetime and within this century as far as we have record of.
[02:26:05]  I wonder about Peter's theory in that he speaks of the apocalyptic time, if you will, for lack of a better term, as the rejoining of all of the souls through reincarnation that have been split off through the spirit and of them trying or re-entering the body and causing a great deal of confusion.
[02:26:30]  And I can't help but wonder, based on his theory, reading the entire book, he puts forth quite a plausible theory in joining the philosophies of East and West and making them work together, in that perhaps these quote-unquote abduction experiences as we come into what appears prophetically to be the apocalyptic time.
[02:26:54]  Of course, they've been saying that for how many centuries.
[02:26:57]  Could it be possibly the soul pockets or the disembodied souls that may be starting to return and trying to rejoin with that conscious spirit in the body that it is now inhabiting?
[02:27:13]  That might sound kind of strange, but...
[02:27:15]  No, no, no, I'm not oriented toward that way.
[02:27:22]  I had...
[02:27:24]  I wrote a book with a very fine psyche called Armin Marcot.
[02:27:29]  It's called Past Lives, Future Growth.
[02:27:32]  And he had this theory of Western reincarnation where you work out your problems, you know, your karma from a previous life in the present life.
[02:27:41]  And this is the only way that I could accept reincarnation or the rejoining, the coming back of souls.
[02:27:51]  I haven't read, is it Peter Novak?
[02:27:55]  I have not read his book.
[02:27:56]  The Division of Consciousness, yes.
[02:28:00]  All right.
[02:28:01]  We're short on time.
[02:28:02]  Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Andruffel.
[02:28:05]  Hi.
[02:28:05]  Hi.
[02:28:06]  My name is Jay.
[02:28:08]  And I have a kind of a complex short story, really, about my life.
[02:28:13]  And I just want to know what your comment really would be on it.
[02:28:16]  Well, I wish I could say we have time for a complex.
[02:28:18]  But it's not, I mean, I can make it quick.
[02:28:21]  All right, listen.
[02:28:21]  I've listened to you for a while, Art, and I've wanted to do this for a while.
[02:28:26]  Do it quickly, sir.
[02:28:26]  Go ahead.
[02:28:27]  Anyway, some years ago, I was at a large festival, music festival, whatever, and I had an experience where someone had mentioned, like, what is that?
[02:28:36]  And I looked up, and it was like looking at, like, a cloaking device or something like this from something, you know, and I saw this violet light, and it came down over me, and it like absorbed me, and I felt like I was starting to lift up, but I resisted it, and I stopped, and it moved off of me and started moving away and went over above my tent, and I went to my tent, just like drawn to it.
[02:29:00]  And my drum was in there, and I went to my drum and I drummed, and I was like communicating with this whatever it was up above, like the state of us, right?
[02:29:11]  And it was like a complete understanding, and I felt like something was about to come out of the woods at me.
[02:29:16]  And I stopped and I said, Please don't, don't even come to me right now because I cannot deal with that.
[02:29:21]  My mentality can't deal with that.
[02:29:24]  Let me go forth and gain some knowledge about all of us, and then later you come back to me.
[02:29:31]  And I'm getting confused now, I'm sorry.
[02:29:36]  All right, why don't we hold it there?
[02:29:37]  I guess you should be careful what you beat the drums for, what I'd say about that.
[02:29:42]  Ann, it has been we're out of time.
[02:29:45]  It has been such a pleasure having you on.
[02:29:47]  Well, thank you, Art.

=== Bless Your Heart (01:49) ===

[02:29:48]  And I would love to have you back sometime.
[02:29:51]  Oh, I'd love to come.
[02:29:52]  In the meantime, I hope that everybody will go out and will look for your book.
[02:29:58]  I guess you would recommend your latest work to them: How to Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction.
[02:30:04]  In bookstores now, and if they don't have it, bug them until they get it, huh?
[02:30:07]  And they can get it on randomhouse.com or Amazon.com as well.
[02:30:13]  And we have links on my website.
[02:30:15]  All right, Ann, bless your heart.
[02:30:17]  Thank you for being here, and thank you for being such a trooper in the middle of the night.
[02:30:20]  Well, thank you, Art, and bless your heart, too.
[02:30:22]  Take care.
[02:30:24]  That, ladies and gentlemen, is Ann Druffel on abductions and ufology in general, a subject that we haven't really covered in a while.
[02:30:33]  For those of you who will get the second hour of the program repeated here in a few moments, I did what I finally said I would do, and I, because the story broke, and I knew it was going to, of what happened and why I went off the air and what occurred and the circumstances surrounding it.
[02:31:01]  If you have any information that would add to the information that my attorneys already have, I would appreciate very much your assistance in that regard.
[02:31:14]  If you know anything about the first or second case that seemed to be upon me, so I sincerely appreciate your being here tonight, and we'll be back tomorrow night with Wayne Green.
[02:31:31]  What a character he is.
[02:31:34]  So be here.
[02:31:35]  From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.