May 12, 1999 - Art Bell
02:54:44
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Welcome to Arkbell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from May 12th, 1999. | |
| From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening on an incredibly windy night here in the desert, or good morning wherever you may be. | ||
| Oh, I'm telling you, the winds are sweeping across the desert. | ||
| My ISDN line, my other lines for video and everything are out, so this night you will not see me on video, nor probably will you hear me on the net either. | ||
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Although, nope, yes, you will. | |
| You will hear me on the net, because that originates from the satellite receiver in Dallas. | ||
| But the connection between here and Las Vegas is Tukui. | ||
| So, we'll see how it goes as the evening wears on. | ||
| From the Hawaiian Islands, the Tahitian chain, in the west all the way eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole. | ||
| This, of course, is Coast to Coast A.M. And we've got a packed show for you tonight, unless we get quite literally blown away. | ||
| A little bit of news, then Peter Gerston is here, founder and King of Cause. | ||
| Feel like that, King. | ||
| King of Cause. | ||
| I'm just messing with him here. | ||
| He's really not a king. | ||
| He just is the director, I suppose. | ||
| Actually, you know, I'll have to find out his real title here in a minute. | ||
| And then, in the second hour, it's Michael Cremo. | ||
| Is it Michael Cremo? | ||
| Michael Cremo, I should know by now, shouldn't I? | ||
| And Forbidden Archaeology, in other words, what was around before we were? | ||
| It'll be really, really interesting. | ||
| All of that coming up. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
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Stay right where you are. | |
| ScreamLink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year. | ||
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| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure. | ||
| Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics. | ||
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| Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today. | ||
| Looking for the truth? | ||
| You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| In Indonesia, rice farmers got quite a surprise when they discovered that overnight, a large crop circle had mysteriously formed in one of their fields. | ||
| There has to be a reason, though, for the geometric patterns here. | ||
| But I don't think the point is to decipher them. | ||
| I think the point is to realize that there's other intelligence in the universe. | ||
| They're visiting us. | ||
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We're not visiting them. | |
| So until they tell us who they are, it's a mystery. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Well, anyway, everything's down. | ||
| All my lines, my computer lines and everything, the line to Dallas for the video, all of it down. | ||
| I imagine you will get, however, the real audio now that I think about it a little bit, because they actually translate that in Dallas, and I'm sure their lines are fine. | ||
| Out here, the wind's blowing. | ||
| Man, you wouldn't believe it. | ||
| We are having a windstorm. | ||
| A strong earthquake just shook large parts of northern Japan. | ||
| It was a magnitude 6.1 and struck just about 550 miles northwest of Tokyo. | ||
| A lot of earth activity going on right now. | ||
| Otherwise in the world, gun restrictions rejected. | ||
| The Republican-controlled Senate this time said, uh-uh. | ||
| We're not going to do it. | ||
| You want voluntary ones, fine, but we're not making another law. | ||
| Good for you, Senate. | ||
| Congressional negotiators today agreed to provide $11.6 billion for the increasing air assault on Yugoslavia. | ||
| That was a compromise figure. | ||
| They tried to give even more than that. | ||
| That didn't work, so they compromised. | ||
| And it'll be $11.6 billion. | ||
| So when you paid your taxes here, folks, you probably bought a little piece of a cruise missile or something like that. | ||
| Your part's probably already blown up. | ||
| Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin resigning. | ||
| The market went down a couple hundred points and then said, ah, and came back up to minus 25. | ||
| And one of Kvorkian's associates may be in trouble. | ||
| He is being investigated right now, Associate Dr. Kvorkian. | ||
| And so there you have it. | ||
| That's the world tonight. | ||
| There is one other item. | ||
| NATO, according to Tony Blair in Britain, is going to consider shortly whether or not it's going to throw ground troops into the war in Yugoslavia. | ||
| Although he insisted the 50-day-old now air campaign against Serb forces would be successful, he said that NATO was planning for All contingencies. | ||
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So brace yourself, folks. | |
| We may be marching off to Kosovo here shortly. | ||
| I'm sorry to say. | ||
| All right, now. | ||
| I've held him up long enough. | ||
| King Gerston. | ||
| Peter Gerston, founder of cause. | ||
| He'll tell you what it is. | ||
| Peter, welcome to the program. | ||
| Good evening, Arthur. | ||
| You are a trick. | ||
| King Gerston. | ||
| I don't know, when you found an organization like this and then you run it, it's kind of like you're the king, isn't it? | ||
| Well, then you would need a kingdom, of cause. | ||
| And I'd rather be the king of hearts. | ||
| A kingdom of cause. | ||
| Right, and Monday through Saturday, I am the director of cause, and on Sunday, I am Sir Peter of Sedona. | ||
| In other words, you have a certain glow about you on Sunday, and we get the Sunday non-UFO reports. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So on Sunday, I put on my wizards coat. | ||
| Unless a mothership should happen to be hovering over L.A., in which case, no doubt, even Sunday would be changed. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| I guess so. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Look, we've got a number of things to talk about. | ||
| First of all, cause stands for what? | ||
| Citizens Against UFO secrecy. | ||
| Right on. | ||
| It's an Arizona-based public interest organization that believes it's through the legal process that hopefully we can learn the truth about what is interacting with this reality, what this other intelligence is that is coming in contact with people. | ||
| And you're an attorney who has virtually, what, retired, given up your day job to do this event? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Why would an attorney do that, Peter? | ||
| Because this is the reason I'm here. | ||
| It's my purpose. | ||
| It's my Dharma. | ||
| As you were saying earlier in the show about the Earth changes, it's amazing the intensity of the energy that's occurring right now, and it seems to be escalating internally for me, and I'm sure as well as other people, including yourself, and externally on the planet. | ||
| It's projected onto the planet. | ||
| So the people that are here are here now for a purpose, for this particular time. | ||
| This is a very exciting time, whether it's Y2K or a war. | ||
| Or do I agree with that in every sense of the word? | ||
| Oh, or first contact, possibly. | ||
| But this is the reason we are all here. | ||
| If we're here now, this is the reason for it. | ||
| So let's watch it unfold as a witness without reacting to it. | ||
| But my particular purpose is this contact. | ||
| It's almost like this cosmic computer program that we call reality has been infected with a virus, and we see evidence of that. | ||
| Reality infected with a virus. | ||
| I'm going to keep that and hold that one. | ||
| I like it, Peter. | ||
| So basically, I'm looking for my day in court so that I can present evidence in an open court so that the public can scrutinize and see what this contact is. | ||
| I can prove in a court of law and beyond a reasonable doubt that we are in contact with another form of intelligence. | ||
| And that's quite a strong statement to make. | ||
| Now, I understand in this quest, Peter, that the judge just dismissed your lawsuit against the Army. | ||
| You were suing the Army for what? | ||
| For documents that Colonel Philip Corso discussed in his book, Day After Roswell, specifically alien autopsy reports that he stated that he saw in 1961 and information about alien bodies that he said he saw in 1947 at Fort Riley, Kansas. | ||
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But a civil or is it a federal judge? | |
| What kind of judge? | ||
| It's a civil, federal judge. | ||
| Civil, federal? | ||
| It's a civil case under the Freedom of Information Act, and it's brought in in federal court before a United States District Court judge. | ||
| So then you were endeavoring to order the Army, military, to reveal whatever it knew about what Corso had uncovered. | ||
| Is that about correct? | ||
| That's exactly what my objective was. | ||
| Now, the only burden on the government is a reasonable search for the documents. | ||
| And the bottom line is that what Corso said he saw occurred in 1947 and 1961. | ||
| So without getting into whether Corso was telling the truth or not, the Army just said, we don't have the documents. | ||
| We do not have them now in 1999. | ||
| They didn't admit they ever had them. | ||
| They just couldn't find them. | ||
| And that's all that's required, a reasonable search. | ||
| so that it was the smith and with all due respect kind of course so uh... | ||
| I'm not quite clear. | ||
| The Army actually did the search and said it couldn't find anything. | ||
| No documents. | ||
| It even looked at Walter Reed Hospital's records, computerized search, and it looked in various places that I do not remember right now. | ||
| And according to the court, it submitted affidavits. | ||
| Well, I'm not quite clear then on what you were asking the court to do if the Army had said they couldn't find anything. | ||
| Oh, the bottom line is Colonel Costa gave me an affidavit before he died, swearing to what he said he saw in the book. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| So I asked the court to send the Army back and justify what happened to the documents. | ||
| My argument was that Corso's affidavit establishes that the documents existed in the United States. | ||
| I've got you. | ||
| I've got you. | ||
| And so on what grounds then did the judge toss this out? | ||
| Because what I was asking, there is no precedent for. | ||
| The standard is a reasonable search, not an exhaustive search. | ||
| And basically, Corso is no longer alive. | ||
| So I have a little problem even going forward, assuming that it wasn't dismissed. | ||
| But basically, the court found that their search was reasonable under the circumstances, did not buy my argument that they had to justify. | ||
| Nowhere in the Freedom of Information Act or any cases does it say an agency has to justify why it hasn't found documents. | ||
| Peter, I love you. | ||
| But you know something? | ||
| They are not going to tell us until they want us to know. | ||
| I mean, that really is a bottom line, and you could file stuff until the cows came home probably and not get anywhere if they don't want you to get anywhere. | ||
| Well, I'm going to keep on knocking at the door as long as I have legal justification to bring lawsuits, as long as they're not frivolous. | ||
| Well, I like your spirit. | ||
| And it's funny. | ||
| It might be a frivolous, listen to this art. | ||
| It might be a frivolous lawsuit that I need. | ||
| In other words, I might need the judge to dismiss, say, this lawsuit I'm bringing under the invasion clause of the United States Constitution. | ||
| If the judge dismisses that because it's frivolous, then I might get a hearing. | ||
| I need a hearing where I can present evidence. | ||
| Yeah, and we need people like you and Stephen Bassett, but I tell Stephen the same things that I'm telling you that, you know, you can pound your head up against a wall in Washington and all you'll get is a bloody head until they want you to know something. | ||
| Well, it's not just finding out anything from the government. | ||
| It's bringing attention to this contact. | ||
| It's getting the media, it's being on your show. | ||
| And you know who has the final say? | ||
| Who has the power? | ||
| Us, the people. | ||
| And that's why I'm so grateful for you giving me and CARES the opportunity to be on your show because I need evidence. | ||
| I need evidence because the Department of Defense, in the present CORES lawsuit now for the flying triangles, the V-shaped objects, the Department of Defense has answered the complaint by stating that it has no information on these flying triangles. | ||
| It searched the Joint Chiefs of Staff, right? | ||
| The Joint Chiefs of Staff, you would think they would at least know. | ||
| And it searched the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA. | ||
| You would think they would have the information. | ||
| and they have come back, and they have stated they have no information. | ||
| So in other words, we're just about exactly where we were after the Colonel Corso search, right? | ||
| Well, now I can... | ||
| There's a conference in June 14th. | ||
| I have to establish the existence of this object to the court's satisfaction in order to argue... | ||
| that if I can show that this object exists, then the Department of Defense has to know about it no matter what its origin or identity is. | ||
| Of course they know about it. | ||
| You and I both know they know about it. | ||
| But I have to get the court to order a hearing on the issue of whatever, the existence of the object. | ||
| I need a hearing where I can present evidence, where I can bring eyewitnesses. | ||
| But skeptical me says, I hear you, but you and I both again know damn well if they put the national security stamp on it, classified, whatever it is, they're not going to admit they've got any triangles anywhere, period. | ||
| And I know damn well they do because I saw one, but they're not going to admit it. | ||
| Well, the interesting point, in the earlier cases, in the 1977 case with the CIA and the 1980 case with the National Security Agency, both of those agencies admitted they had documents. | ||
| The CIA said they had 57. | ||
| The National Security Agency said they had 135. | ||
| Both agencies withheld the documents on national security grounds with the court's blessing. | ||
| So the Department of Defense could have come forward and said, yes, we have documents, but they're classified under national security, and the court would have upheld that. | ||
| But they didn't do that. | ||
| That's what's the concerning point. | ||
| In other words, they didn't say that. | ||
| They said they have no information. | ||
| Well, Peter, for a decade of my life, I lived on the island of Okinawa. | ||
| I worked for a Japanese company, which broadcasts in English to the soldiers there on Okinawa, all the GIs and their families, a quarter of a million, a lot of people there, commercial broadcast station. | ||
| And every single day, Peter, when I was there, a Japanese reporter from Channel 12 TV in Naha would go to Kadena and he'd stand out at the end of the runway, you know, actually off base, but at the end of the runway, and Kadena would send out a spokesperson and the Japanese fellow would ask him, are there B-52s flying from Okinawa? | ||
| And he would categorically state that's an absolute untruth. | ||
| There are no B-52s flying in support of anything going on. | ||
| And as he would be saying that, Peter, you could actually, the camera in the background would catch a B-52 taking off on its way to Laos. | ||
| I'm not kidding. | ||
| It's amazing what people put up with. | ||
| We're like sheep. | ||
| But what I need from your listeners, the millions and millions of people out there, I need information. | ||
| I need evidence. | ||
| I need affidavits. | ||
| I'm sure thousands and thousands of your listeners, because it's a selective, focused audience, you know, I'm sure they have seen this object. | ||
| I need them to contact me. | ||
| I need videos. | ||
| I need photographs. | ||
| Plus, the lawsuit involving the invasion, Article 4, Section 4 against the States, centers around the alien abduction phenomena. | ||
| In other words, over 30 years, hundreds and thousands of people have reported similar type of violations from different parts of the planet. | ||
| I think it's time we were concerned about this. | ||
| I need affidavits from these people because so far the FBI, Defense Intelligence Agency, and Department of Defense has denied any information on this phenomenon. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| It's like we're living in two different realities. | ||
| It's like Wizard of Oz. | ||
| What's behind the curtain? | ||
| Just watch what's going on. | ||
| Watch the impeachment. | ||
| Watch the war. | ||
| Watch Y2K. | ||
| Just don't watch this other reality that's going on that's flying in our skies and intruding into our homes and invading our bodies. | ||
| Let me tell you something. | ||
| If these acts, these are criminal acts, if done by human beings, what these people are reporting. | ||
| And simply because they're describing a perpetrator that is non-human in appearance, it's totally discounted. | ||
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I know. | |
| It's amazing. | ||
| I think we have to look at that. | ||
| So any kind of attention that we bring to that, who knows? | ||
| If the universe wants certain things to happen, then we will get a favorable judge. | ||
| Maybe there will be a slip-up. | ||
| Maybe somebody will make a mistake. | ||
| Maybe they'll dismiss my case. | ||
| But again, skeptical old meme. | ||
| Let's say that you get a judge who believes every word of, let's say, the triangle argument. | ||
| And the judge orders an absolute thorough search or whatever. | ||
| Okay. | ||
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They're still going to come back and say, uh-uh. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| You know, if the judge does not go along with any dismissal, then I'm entitled to discovery. | ||
| And that includes subpoena power to take depositions. | ||
| Oh, now that would be fun. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I'm ready to take the deposition of the Secretary of Defense, of somebody in DARPA, somebody in the Joint Chiefs of Staff. | ||
| I'm ready to take that. | ||
| Would they actually have to respond and come to a deposition, or could there be a ruling again using the old national defense label that, sorry, Colonel so-and-so isn't going to be there? | ||
| The only problem is that they have already stated they don't have any information. | ||
| So how does a non-information issue affect national security? | ||
| You know, in other words, according to them, they should be open to take depositions because they don't have any information, and they're going to tell me they don't have any information. | ||
| So not only want to take the deposition of the heads of the Department of Defense and DARPA, I want to take the deposition from Luke Air Force Base about what the Phoenix lights were about that night, because that's a perfect case of this object, or the Hudson Valley sightings, or what happened in Belgium, or all over the planet. | ||
| But there are certain events that are the best evidence, and that's the Hudson Valley, the Phoenix lights, and the Belgium triangles. | ||
| You have big gonies, Peter. | ||
| Hey, what else? | ||
| This is why I'm here. | ||
| This is the particular time period that I came for. | ||
| I've been waiting for this period. | ||
| This is your time, huh? | ||
| This is my, it's your time, too. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| Oh, believe me, I know. | ||
| It's an interesting time. | ||
| You're absolutely right about that. | ||
| And I am not going to forget for a long time, reality infected with a virus. | ||
| Those are the times we're living in, folks. | ||
| Reality has indeed been infected with some kind of virus, and things are all twisted and weird, like we all slipped a cog and went into part of another dimension or something. | ||
| Is that too weird for you? | ||
| Anyway, we'll break here at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| Now, get a pencil and paper because you've got to join this man's Efforts. | ||
| I am. | ||
| I realize it's like batting your head up against the wall. | ||
| But as Peter just said, that's what we're here for. | ||
| And if it's a battle, you might as well join. | ||
| Because it's a good fight. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks, tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | |
| Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. | ||
| Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. | ||
| Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. | ||
| Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. | ||
| Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | ||
| Peter Gerson is here, and he brought with him reality. | ||
| Think about this, reality infected with a virus. | ||
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Troops may be on the way to Kosovo shortly. | |
| Tony Blair is talking about it. | ||
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Tony Blair is talking about it. | |
| These indeed are very, very strange times, aren't they? | ||
| Anyway, Peter will be back, and you can help. | ||
| And I guess you've got a choice to either get involved or just sort of throw up your hands and say there's nothing we can do. | ||
| And that's not a good place to be, so if you want to know how to be involved, have the paper and the pencil ready. | ||
| The first thing you can do is join Cause. | ||
| We'll tell you all about it. | ||
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*Sounds of the sound* | |
| Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year. | ||
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| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure. | ||
| Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer Inside Shows, and two weekly classics. | ||
| And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests. | ||
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| visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today. | ||
| You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| You know, there is terrorism out there, so in an effort to try to fight it or combat it, we give up these rights. | ||
| I'm convinced that there are groups out there, sinister, powerful groups, that would create this terror to continue to control us. | ||
| I think you're absolutely correct. | ||
| But of course, anybody that's followed the process of government throughout history, once a government has been given a certain amount of power, it always seeks more. | ||
| And to suggest that our government is different because it's America, I guess that just shows how historically ignorant the American people have become. | ||
| Because in a real sense, these things are our fault. | ||
| Americans are, in fact, now trading liberty for security. | ||
| Every day, this is going to happen now in our future, that we're going to allow this. | ||
| It's just a matter of time. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| The End Back down to Peter Gerston. | ||
| Peter, here we are again. | ||
| Now the first thing I want everybody, I think everybody should do, is know that there is a free daily cause bulletin sent out at absolutely no charge by email from you, and it goes out to thousands of people every day and they get the latest news on what's going on in ufology. | ||
| And it's free. | ||
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I mean, all you've got to do is tell them how to do it. | |
| As I told you, the intensity is increasing. | ||
| The energy is getting stronger. | ||
| It's different. | ||
| And COURSE is going with it, going with the flow and growing. | ||
| And it's growing both online with what you just described and offline. | ||
| And online, COURSE now has a new webmaster, and that's Keith Rowland. | ||
| And I think you have some relationship with him and some contact with him. | ||
| No idea. | ||
| So that's wonderful. | ||
| And we're only going to make giant leaps ahead. | ||
| But CORES is an Internet organization. | ||
| You do need Internet capability, email, and so forth. | ||
| And if you do, then I would suggest you go to the CORES website, which is www.caus.org, and scroll to the bottom where you can sign up for these free COUSE websites, CORES updates, and we send out information every day. | ||
| I mean, you just can't beat that, folks. | ||
| If you want the latest on newfology, even before I get it on the air at night, Peter's going to have it land in your mailbox during the day, and it's free. | ||
| It is free. | ||
| Are you listening? | ||
| F-R-E-E, free. | ||
| All you need is a computer. | ||
| Go to a site and sign up, and from then on, you'll be getting them for free. | ||
| You simply can't beat that. | ||
| Now, that's a wonderful thing to do for everybody, Peter. | ||
| And the other side of COUS, there is another side, right? | ||
| Which is the offline side, you mean? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, well, what we're doing now is because I've been told, I don't know if this is true, that 70% of your listeners do not have Internet access. | ||
| Oh, I'm sure that's true. | ||
| There's millions of people that CARS is not reaching. | ||
| So what we're going to be doing now is putting out a newsletter, an offline newsletter, called Cause and Effect. | ||
| And we're going to send those newsletters out once a month, and it's going to contain the highlights of the CARES updates that we send out every day so that there is nobody that can miss what's going on. | ||
| Evidence of this contact, personal contact experiences that we share, commentaries, citing reports, updates about what we're doing in CORES. | ||
| Everybody should be made aware of this. | ||
| But since it is offline and since there are costs involved, we have to charge a nominal fee. | ||
| And that fee basically is $15, a little over $1 a month. | ||
| $15 a year? | ||
| A year. | ||
| Oh, that's not bad at all. | ||
| And it's going to be well worth it. | ||
| So basically, in order to subscribe to the newsletter or to call me or to US mail me, there's an address and a phone number. | ||
| Okay, so credit cards we take either you can email me or call me up and so forth and so on. | ||
| But I would suggest you support the cause by going to the cause website, signing up for the cause updates, and then you'll be a member of COURSE automatically. | ||
| Or if you don't have Internet access, if you can't go online, then subscribe to Cause and Effect and you'll get the same information. | ||
| Boy, you're good with names. | ||
| Cause and Effect. | ||
| And one other point. | ||
| Let me just bring this other point up. | ||
| In my opinion, this three-dimensional reality that we exist in, that we call life, is nothing more than a futuristic technology. | ||
| It's a cosmic, sophisticated computer program, and I definitely do see a virus that has infiltrated this, a cosmic virus. | ||
| That's so tempting to run. | ||
| I'm going to have to run with that, but I'll always have to credit you with it. | ||
| How did you come up with this concept anyway? | ||
| I get information. | ||
| I've been seeing 1111 again, and with that, I'm getting more information about why I'm here. | ||
| And that information has to do with the fact that something is not right on this planet. | ||
| A complaint was made, for want of a better term, and I am here to investigate what it is. | ||
| And what I've been told is that it has to do with the computer program that is creating this reality that it's been infected with the virus. | ||
| Because there is, for want of a better term, a prime directive that cannot be violated. | ||
| And it seems to be violated. | ||
| We are interacting with another life form that has no business here at this particular time in our evolution. | ||
| By the way, with regard to this other life form, do you have any opinions about their intention? | ||
| Are they friendly, not so friendly, downright hostile? | ||
| I mean, where do you think they fit in? | ||
| Well, once again, I deal with evidence. | ||
| And there's a legal instruction in a criminal case on how you determine a person's intent, right? | ||
| To determine whether he or the intent to kill or the intent to, say, rape, or the intent to rob. | ||
| And that intent involves many different characteristics, many different ways, such as the person's actions, the person's statements, and there's probably a couple of other, you know, the natural consequence of his actions. | ||
| So I have reports from people about abductions. | ||
| Abductions seem to be non-consensual. | ||
| I'm assuming that that is not something that's beneficial. | ||
| I also get reports that there are benevolent encounters with beings who give great advice in different ways. | ||
| But I'm not concerned with the benevolent encounters. | ||
| I'm concerned with the hostile ones. | ||
| I think a lot of the benevolent encounters have probably more to do with the Stockholm syndrome than anything else. | ||
| Well, I'm not familiar with the Stockholm syndrome. | ||
| Oh, you're not? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| That's where you begin to identify with the cause of your captor. | ||
| Yeah, the abductor. | ||
| Well, I guess those people that have these contacts, benevolent, would disagree because they describe, they don't describe an abduction scenario. | ||
| They describe, you know, a beautiful, angelic kind of contact or contact that gives you certain information. | ||
| The abductions are unique because of the fear involved. | ||
| Now, I've been told that, well, that's a misinterpretation of a contact experience. | ||
| And I say, well, I'm not going to judge somebody else's experience. | ||
| If that person comes into a police station and says they've just been raped, the desk sergeant is not going to look at them and say, well, maybe you misinterpreted what your perpetrator intended. | ||
| You're exactly right. | ||
| You know, so I got 30 years of listening to these stories. | ||
| You know, and I think it's beyond the point of just recording them and publishing books and talking about them at conferences. | ||
| I think it's time we did something about it to at least find out what kind of aberration or actual contact experience these people are having. | ||
| Because it's possible that what they're perceiving is actually what's occurring. | ||
| And if that's happening, then I think that should be our number one priority as a species. | ||
| I wouldn't disagree with any of that for a second. | ||
| It's just that, you know, if there has been contact with our government or governments, then obviously some kind of deal has been made because we haven't been told about it. | ||
| I mean, that's a logical conclusion, is it not? | ||
| Well, the government has more information. | ||
| Whatever the government is, whether it's political, it's hard for me to believe that these political elective officials know anything more than anybody else does. | ||
| It might be the military establishment or the group above that or the group above that, the people that are in power for a lifetime, or maybe more than one lifetime. | ||
| It depends on what kind of technology they have. | ||
| The bottom line is there's a technology that's interacting with us. | ||
| There's a would appear to be a life form that's interacting with us that I think we should find out about now. | ||
| And I would do anything. | ||
| Hopefully, I don't have to make the ultimate secret a reality in order to get what I need. | ||
| But, you know, I would be prepared to do anything to get the truth out. | ||
| Well, here's something to think about. | ||
| If that great truth really is out there, the elusive truth, and you really did get close to getting it, and it's that big a deal, they'd stop you. | ||
| Well, I think I'm protected. | ||
| I don't think they can interfere with me. | ||
| For whatever reason, and I know it's hard to accept and believe, but that's my belief. | ||
| In other words, I don't think that anything can happen to me. | ||
| I think I'm protected. | ||
|
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That's one of the rules of this reality. | |
| So they leave me alone, and basically I leave them alone as far as doing anything other than what's within the rules of this society as of this time. | ||
| But basically, what I need is the people out there to support me. | ||
| They are the evidence. | ||
| They are the witnesses. | ||
| I need them to call me. | ||
| Yeah, you don't really think you could become, I'm going to be frank here, too much of a pain in the ass suddenly for them. | ||
| No, they can't do anything to me. | ||
| It's a violation. | ||
| The game would be over. | ||
| They can't. | ||
| But, Peter, the whole thing is a violation. | ||
| Well, but that's why I'm here. | ||
| In other words, there are certain like, like, what's the word, like inspectors or something? | ||
| You know, everything in a two-dimensional reality, you know, whether we see on the movies or even on a three-dimensional reality, is a metaphor for what actually is occurring. | ||
| So basically, you see, you know, in the movies certain things, information. | ||
| You see in Kosovo, you know, or actually in Iraq, about inspectors, how they're neutral, things like that. | ||
| Basically, I think I'm one of the inspectors that are neutral, that cannot be interfered with. | ||
| Interesting proposition, and I hope for your sake and many of our sakes that you are correct. | ||
| oh, I'm here for this reason. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I even told him today, I said, Richard, I knew nothing was going to happen to you because you're here for this particular period. | ||
| You're not going to leave now. | ||
| It would be anticlimactic for you. | ||
| Yeah, really, you ought to give the audience an update. | ||
| You did. | ||
| I talked to Richard the other day. | ||
| You talked to Richard earlier today. | ||
| Please give everybody an update. | ||
| Richard is doing extremely well under the circumstances. | ||
| He's involved in certain alternative types of healing modalities. | ||
| And he's dying to talk about them, too. | ||
| And he's about to return. | ||
| He's writing an article that will soon be posted, I would assume, on his website. | ||
| I think he's going to be speaking out a little bit more about some of the things he was accused of not talking about before his illness. | ||
| I think he's going to become a little more vocal in that response. | ||
| Richard, more vocal. | ||
| Well, as far as criticism is concerned, he used to avoid responding. | ||
| I admire that in him because I couldn't do it, and you can't do it. | ||
| He did it. | ||
| But I think he's going to come a little forward and try to respond to some of the attacks, especially the attack that his heart attack was a sham and a fraud. | ||
| Oh, yeah, actually, that was horrible. | ||
| The same group of people have been out there saying Richard Hoagland faked his heart attack. | ||
| Isn't that ridiculous? | ||
| It's horrible. | ||
| He's on, according to what I heard the other day, a special monitor now because unfortunately, maybe just a little hiccup here, but they have detected an arrhythmia that they're not sure about. | ||
| So they've got like a monitor on them 24 hours a day that reads back to the hospital or something? | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| No, he's not completely well, and he has a long way to go before he's completely well. | ||
| He really suffered a severe heart attack. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| They cut part of his, I think, heart out, out of one of the arteries or veins. | ||
| So he can't even go back home to New Mexico. | ||
| I know, not to that altitude. | ||
| So he has to stay in Florida and be constantly treated. | ||
| In other words, his life has changed 100%. | ||
| You know, he's not the same person he was a couple of months ago. | ||
| No, he is not. | ||
| Though I will say, it's still Richard. | ||
| Oh, definitely. | ||
| When I heard that voice today, oh, it's that voice again. | ||
| There you are. | ||
| Yeah, it was great hearing from him. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So basically in your cause, you need help. | ||
| You need help. | ||
| You need help from everybody. | ||
| People who have seen the triangular object, just like the one I saw. | ||
| There's no doubt in my mind, Peter, and that might make me sound like some do a fruitcake, but I assure you I'm not. | ||
| My wife's not. | ||
| It flew directly over our heads. | ||
| It exists. | ||
| I promise you all, it does exist. | ||
|
unidentified
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It exists. | |
| It's either ours or it's theirs. | ||
| Either way, it's a big damn story. | ||
| The people have to help me prove it. | ||
| They have to help me prove that these abductions are going on. | ||
| And they have to support me in any way, including financially. | ||
| It's as simple as that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And to that end, they can go to your website. | ||
| They get a free everyday dealie flopper there in your computer that comes to you and tells you everything that's going on in the UFO community. | ||
| You get the latest every day, and it's free. | ||
| You simply go to www.cause.org, correct? | ||
| Or go to your website and click on the link under my name. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| We have it linked, and so just go there, fill out the little form. | ||
| You'll get the reports every day. | ||
| Otherwise, the new newsletter can be yours for a phone call. | ||
| Peter, you have been wonderful. | ||
| As always, thank you, and I hope we can break through the wall, my friend. | ||
| We will try as hard as we can, my friend. | ||
| Okay, well, answer your phone. | ||
| Yeah, I'm getting buzzed all over the place. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you, Audrey. | ||
|
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Good night. | |
| It's a pleasure. | ||
| The pleasure has been mine. | ||
| That's a man with a really serious mission in life, folks. | ||
| And who knows? | ||
| He just might do it. | ||
| But I mean, here's somebody who's an attorney that I could be making gazillions of dollars. | ||
| And he has sort of tossed that all aside to do this. | ||
| I mean, that's quite something to do when you think about it. | ||
| Now, I have received endless taxes, not email, because I can't even get to my email right now. | ||
| Endless faxes saying that, ART, did you see yourself on Seven Days, the TV science fiction show Seven Days that ran on UPN, tonight? | ||
| And the answer is no. | ||
| I didn't, damn it. | ||
| They said it depicted a character, a Nevada-based conspiracy theorist and radio personality. | ||
| I had no idea they were going to run that. | ||
| And if somebody caught it out there, I would appreciate your sending me this particular episode. | ||
| Since apparently I was sort of depicted. | ||
| Now, I guess they didn't do that by name, but Nevada is not exactly a real big place. | ||
| And in terms of conspiracy theorists, though I don't feature myself that, I know that the public looks at it that way. | ||
| And radio talk show hosts, there aren't that many in that category. | ||
| So apparently they did something or another that sort of had to do with me. | ||
| And if somebody would send me a copy of the program, I'd like that very much. | ||
| We're going to pause. | ||
| When we come back, we're going to be talking about who we were and what may have been here before us and what evidence there is for that. | ||
| This is really something that demands your attention. | ||
| Think about it. | ||
| There may have been an entire civilization, or maybe many of them, that have come and gone for whatever reasons. | ||
| We may not be the first. | ||
| So that's coming up, Forbidden Archaeology. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | |
| Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 12, 1999. | ||
| Here are reasons that arise, but arise, are you ready? | ||
| You are fire and love tonight. | ||
| *music* | ||
| Be the sight of the sand, the smell of the touch, something inside that we need so much. | ||
| The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the scent of an oak leaves deep in the ground. | ||
| The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmacs and the sun again. | ||
| Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing. | ||
| To lie in the middle and hear the grass sing how all these things in our memories fall, and the use of the cup. | ||
| To lie in the middle and hear the grass sing how all these things in our memories fall, and the use of the cup. | ||
| Let me rise. | ||
| press of my seed is my fear. | ||
| I will take forgiveness. | ||
| Work for hardness to it by fear. | ||
| I'm to win my life for it. | ||
| But by now, I hope I should like Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Tonight's program originally aired May 12, 1999. | ||
| It's a strange night in the desert, folks. | ||
| The winds are whipping. | ||
| The computer lines between here in Las Vegas and outward are basically down. | ||
| So I don't have my ASDN line. | ||
| They don't have video. | ||
| And I don't have access to my normal computer stuff. | ||
| I feel crippled. | ||
| I'm going to be a victim of Y2K. | ||
| There's no question about it. | ||
| Last hour we spent with Peter Gerston, an attorney, who has started an organization called CAUSE, and he made a statement that I'm never going to forget. | ||
| He said, Art, we live in a world of reality today virtually infected with a virus. | ||
| Think about that. | ||
| What a concept. | ||
| Reality infected with a virus. | ||
| In a moment, we're going to talk to Michael Crimo not about today, but about yesterday, or a lot of yesterdays. | ||
| Actually, forbidden archaeology is going to be the subject, along with others. | ||
| We'll talk to him about a lot of things. | ||
| We'll get underway in a moment. | ||
| Let me tell you what I just got. | ||
| This just broke. | ||
| During this last weekend, there were two tornadoes that killed five people in Cuba. | ||
| That's right. | ||
|
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Cuba. | |
| The Communist Party Daily, Grama, said that two tornadoes damaged hundreds of homes, and they're just now telling us about this electricity telephone service out in those communities. | ||
| But two tornadoes in Cuba, of all places. | ||
| I'm telling you, our weather is going south. | ||
|
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I'm telling you, our weather is going south. | |
| Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price. | ||
| The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you and the iPhone app. | ||
| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy. | ||
| If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider. | ||
| Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up. | ||
| Looking for the truth? | ||
| You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| In Indonesia, rice farmers got quite a surprise when they discovered that overnight, a large crop circle had mysteriously formed in one of their fields. | ||
| There has to be a reason, though, for the geometric patterns here. | ||
| But I don't think the point is to decipher them. | ||
| I think the point is to realize that there's other intelligence in the universe. | ||
| They're visiting us. | ||
| We're not visiting them. | ||
| So until they tell us who they are, it's a mystery. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Art Bell All right, normally I would read a bio for Michael Cremo, who's coming on the air now. | ||
| I think instead tonight, it'd be fun just to have him tell us a little bit about himself. | ||
| If you were to do your own little bio, Michael, and you were to have to explain to the audience who you are, what would you say? | ||
| You know, recently a friend of mine told me that perhaps I'm a reincarnation of Charles Darwin, come back to correct a very bad mistake. | ||
| Because a lot of the work that I do really challenges what the Darwinists have been saying for the past 150 years. | ||
|
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I know. | |
| It makes them very angry, actually. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, we've got all of this evidence for extreme human antiquity that's been hidden away in the scientific archives, which we've tried to open up and let people have a look at and see what's there. | ||
| So I think my friend may have had a pretty good idea there. | ||
| What's in your background, Michael, that brought you to this? | ||
| Well, you know, it's very strange because there's nothing in my educational background that would have brought me into the field of archaeology. | ||
| When I was going to the university, George Washington University, back in the 1960s, I was in the School of International Affairs. | ||
| I was preparing for a career in the government. | ||
| I was studying Russian and German and international politics because I grew up in... | ||
| Well, I don't know. | ||
| Maybe it's the fact that Washington, D.C. burned down and they brought in the 82nd Airborne Division to quell the riots there. | ||
| I mean, maybe that had something to do with it. | ||
| But I got disillusioned with government at a certain point. | ||
| And I got disillusioned with the university system of education. | ||
| And at that point, I just went off on what I would call a, I don't know, a spiritual quest. | ||
| And it led me to different countries around the world. | ||
| In other words, you got disillusioned with lies, really. | ||
| Well, yeah, I think I was. | ||
| Isn't that what it really comes down to? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Well, I think I was disillusioned about the lies, about what success means, what the truth is. | ||
| And of course, I was there right in the center. | ||
| I used to go to some of the congressional hearings. | ||
| I think that was a pretty good thing. | ||
| When I went to the Fulbright hearings about what was going on in Vietnam, I heard Senator Fulbright standing up practically alone and saying something that nobody else was saying at the time. | ||
| Now, I think I wanted to find out things myself, and that's why I set out on my own to see what I could discover about, well, the truth, either the truth of my own being or the truth about the world, whatever you want to call it. | ||
| Well, it's common. | ||
| I mean, you're being, my being, all of our beings, we all have the same questions about where we came from, how we got here, and where we're going. | ||
| And there's some risk. | ||
| I mean, there's some risk when you depart from the, I don't know, I guess the ruts that have been worn in the pavement and set out on your own. | ||
| There's a lot of risk. | ||
| And I don't know, my travels led me to India, and I don't know, I became very fascinated with the ancient Sanskrit writings of India, among other cultures. | ||
| And that led me, that's what really got me interested in this whole question of, well, where did we come from? | ||
| And when I encountered these stories of human civilizations existing on this planet for tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of years, that's what really inspired me. | ||
| And, well, my co-author, Richard Thompson, who had a similar path. | ||
| Of course, his path came from the scientific world. | ||
| He was a mathematician. | ||
| And I had come from the international politics school. | ||
| But we both wound up in the same place and asking the same questions. | ||
| And that's what got us into the eight years of research that resulted in Forbidden Archaeology and it's the abridged edition of that book, The Hidden History of the Human Race. | ||
| The guess I had on just before you, Peter Gerston, said something that'll stick with me for a long time. | ||
| I repeated it, and I think at the top of the animal, he said, he believes we live in a world today, a reality infected with a virus. | ||
| That's really something to think about. | ||
| We do live in very strange, strange times, Michael, and it's kind of like reality has been infected with a virus. | ||
| I really like that. | ||
| Any thoughts? | ||
| Well, I tend to agree with that. | ||
| I think there's, I mean, in the ultimate issue, I think that the real atmosphere that we're meant to live in is a spiritual atmosphere. | ||
| And I think what we have now is it's mixed with something. | ||
| It's mixed with something else. | ||
| And sorting out what is truth and what is falsehood is part of that. | ||
| You know, when I was traveling around the world earlier in my life, I came to the conclusion it was all wings of the same asylum. | ||
| You know, I thought just by changing my location on the planet, I might get out of what I considered to be an asylum. | ||
| But it didn't work out that way. | ||
| No, it's everywhere. | ||
| I think you have to do, there's something else. | ||
| There's something more involved than changing one's physical location. | ||
| No, no, it's everywhere. | ||
| And it doesn't matter what discipline we're talking about these days, whether it's Gersten's legal attack to try to get to the truth on ufology and these objects that are in our skies, or it's you, Michael, talking about the fact that there may have been a civilization here long before ours, or maybe even several of them. | ||
| What is your current belief, by the way? | ||
| Well, my current belief is, now, civilization is a, It's a difficult one to prove from the archaeological record. | ||
| But I think the presence of human beings like ourselves in our current biological form, that would be the prerequisite for any kind of civilization, whether it's advanced or maybe a little more primitive. | ||
| But I think the presence of human beings like ourselves is the first prerequisite. | ||
| And I think there's evidence that human beings like ourselves have existed on this planet for about two billion years. | ||
| Now, that was a hypothesis I dragged out of the age of 20. | ||
| Now, fundamentalist Christians, many believe that we have been here for 6,000 years. | ||
| That's a belief many of them have. | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| Yes, 6,000 years only. | ||
| Very short time indeed. | ||
| Now, traditional archaeology would say what? | ||
| About 100,000 years. | ||
| 100,000 years. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now, that's a great divide, but not nearly so great a divide as the one you're talking about. | ||
| So we have this on scale. | ||
| Religious fundamentalists, 6,000 years. | ||
| Traditional archaeologists, 100,000 years. | ||
|
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Michael Cremo, a couple of billion years. | |
| Yeah, and that's quite shocking to many people, especially among the Orthodox archaeologists. | ||
| But yeah, it's very interesting. | ||
| Some of the younger people coming into that discipline now, they don't seem to have the same closed minds as some of their elders. | ||
| I was in Warsaw, Poland, recently. | ||
| I'd been invited there by the publisher of my book. | ||
| It actually was one of the bestsellers in that country last year. | ||
| So I was in Warsaw, and an archaeologist there told me, he said he didn't know a single graduate student of archaeology in Warsaw who hadn't read the Polish edition of this book. | ||
| And he said they were getting into fights with their professors about it, which I thought was great. | ||
| Again, the title of your book? | ||
| Well, the one that's out now is called The Hidden History of the Human Race, which is a paperback abridged edition of the original 900-page hardcover forbidden archaeology. | ||
| all right so it's a follow-up to that right well it's a bridge version of it because bridge already i guess many people are looking at the hard but Right, so this is a shorter version of it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I've got you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is in that book that you would cite as proof that we've been... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, the oldest piece of evidence that Richard Thompson and I encountered in our research was these round metallic spheres that have been found over the past 20 years or so by miners in South Africa at a place called Otosdalen. | ||
| Round metallic spheres. | ||
| Yeah, and they're found in a mineral deposit. | ||
| Now, it's a very interesting mineral deposit in which they're found. | ||
| This mine produces a mineral called pyrophyllite, which is used to make the tiles on the heat shield of space shuttle. | ||
| It's really pretty amazing. | ||
| It's one of the few places in the world where they've got this mineral. | ||
| It's a very heat-resistant mineral. | ||
| But in any case, these round metallic spheres are found solidly embedded in this mineral at this one particular mine at a place called Otos Dahlen in the western Transvaal in South Africa. | ||
| And we showed them on a television show that was broadcast on NBC a couple of years ago, but before they were filmed, the producers gave them to some metallurgists to have them analyzed. | ||
| And they turned out to be made of a naturally occurring iron ore called hematite. | ||
| And archaeologists say that hematite is used even today by a lot of tribal peoples in Africa and elsewhere in the world as a semi-precious stone. | ||
| They use it for decorative purposes. | ||
| But these round spheres, which are about one to two inches in diameter, and there were hundreds of them found in these mineral deposits, have this very interesting feature. | ||
| They have parallel grooves running around the equators. | ||
| You know, two, three, four, maybe sometimes some of them just have one of these grooves. | ||
| But the metallurgists said they couldn't see any way in which these grooves could have been formed or the objects could have been formed naturally in the Earth. | ||
| Last November I was at a MUFON conference. | ||
| I spoke at a MUFON conference in New Hampshire and an engineer, one of the MUFON people there, asked to have one of these. | ||
| And so I gave him one to analyze. | ||
| He cut it in half and he said that the radius of it varies by less than one four-thousandth of an inch all the way around. | ||
| And he thought that was unusual. | ||
| He thought that was a pretty high tolerance for a supposed natural object. | ||
| Almost impossible, actually. | ||
| Yeah, so after these objects were shown on an NBC television special called The Mysterious Origins of Man, there was quite a discussion about them on the internet, which I was monitoring. | ||
| And one geologist had said, he had claimed, he says, well, you could find these things anywhere all over the world. | ||
| So I asked him, I put up a message, and I said, well, if that's true, perhaps you could send me either a scientific report about it or a photograph or, better yet, a specimen. | ||
| And he wasn't able to do either one of those three things. | ||
| Then why would he make a statement like that? | ||
| Well, you often find this. | ||
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It's called bluffing. | |
| And really what it's like, I'll tell you what it's like, because they want to bluff the other people who are listening. | ||
| It's like a mother or father who tries to scare their kid by saying, if you don't behave, there's a boogeyman in the closet. | ||
| No, I hear you, but I mean, if it's bluffing, then it's like being in a very high-stakes poker game for the truth. | ||
| Well, and I hope they play better poker than they do, you know, in their truth games. | ||
| They're going to lose naturally, I think. | ||
| Well, are they? | ||
| In other words, what can you conclude from these objects? | ||
| Now, the tolerance, you're right, seems impossible to occur naturally. | ||
| Well, no. | ||
| Another thing the metallurgists who analyzed them said was that they couldn't see any way in which these objects could have formed naturally in the Earth. | ||
| And of course, well, one idea was, well, maybe somebody carved the grooves in afterwards, but that's not true either, because I've seen specimens of these solidly embedded in rock, you know, partially exposed. | ||
| And you can see they have the grooves on and they go all the way around back through the solid rock. | ||
| And uh you know they're they're quite mysterious objects. | ||
| I mean there's they're I think just in the absence of uh any good natural explanation for how they could have formed, I think we have to consider the possibility that they were intelligently manufactured. | ||
| Let's say that we believe that for a second. | ||
| What do you imagine they might have been? | ||
| Um the only clue I have is the fact that uh according to archaeologists these things are um made of a made of a made of a kind of semi-precious stone that is used for decorative purposes. | ||
| So I have no firm idea what they could have been used for. | ||
| Now, some people have suggested I mean I have heard all kinds of suggestions, you know, that they were some, you know, that they were some kind of uh memory device that had information electronically coded in them, but I don't see any evidence of that. | ||
| I mean people have come up with all kinds of explanations. | ||
| And your best guess? | ||
| To me right now I prefer to think of them as objects. | ||
| Or some kind of bead or something decorative. | ||
| But here's an interesting fact. | ||
| Now I heard reports. | ||
| I never witnessed this myself, but there were some reports that these objects, there were some that were being kept. | ||
| There was one that was being kept at the Museum of Natural History in Clerkstorp, South Africa. | ||
| It's the one that's actually pictured in the book. | ||
| We're almost out of time here. | ||
| And apparently there was a report that it would rotate by itself in its display case. | ||
| Oh now, see, now that gets my attention. | ||
| All right, hold it right there. | ||
| Michael Cremo is my guest, and we're only just beginning. | ||
| Oh, yes, that would certainly get your attention, wouldn't it? | ||
| If there was a round metal object indeed in the Earth a couple of billion years out and you were looking at it, it began to rotate by itself, that definitely would get your attention. | ||
|
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks, tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | |
| *music* | ||
| Her heart is on fire. | ||
| Hold like a wheel and spirit. | ||
| My love is alive. | ||
| My love is alive. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks. | ||
| Tonight's an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | ||
| Peter Gerst, this night, reality has been infected with a virus. | ||
| Knock that one around for a while. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Michael Cremo is here. | |
| Imagine finding balls of metal in Africa, deep down. | ||
|
unidentified
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God knows how old, we'll ask in a moment. | |
| That have been known to rotate by themselves. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Now that's getting warmer. | |
| Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year. | ||
| The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs. | ||
| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure. | ||
| Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer Inside Shows, and two weekly classics. | ||
| And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests. | ||
| If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider. | ||
| Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today. | ||
| Looking for the truth? | ||
| You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| In Indonesia, rice farmers got quite a surprise when they discovered that overnight, a large crop circle had mysteriously formed in one of their fields. | ||
| There has to be a reason, though, for the geometric patterns here. | ||
| But I don't think the point is to decipher them. | ||
| I think the point is to realize that there's other intelligence in the universe. | ||
| They're visiting us. | ||
| We're not visiting them. | ||
| So Until they tell us who they are, it's a mystery. | ||
| You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks. | ||
| Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12, 1999. | ||
| Coast to Coast AM Once again, Michael Cremo. | ||
| Well, what an intriguing place to leave off. | ||
| They've been known to actually by themselves and in a display case to rotate. | ||
| Well, that's the report. | ||
| And, you know, it's interesting, the object that was reported to do that, that's the one we've got a photograph of in the book. | ||
| After the book was published, a Dutch television producer got in touch with me, and he said, well, I'd like to go down to South Africa and film it. | ||
| So I inquired from the museum director about it, whether it was possible for somebody to go down there and film it. | ||
| And the curator of the museum said that that particular object had been stolen by what he called a white witch. | ||
| A white witch. | ||
| Anyway, so I hope it's being put to good use. | ||
| This gets better all the time. | ||
| The curator of the museum said it was stolen by a white witch. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Sometimes objects do get stolen from museums. | ||
| That often happens. | ||
| How did he know it was a white witch, pray tell? | ||
| I didn't ask him. | ||
| He just wrote me in a letter that that's who stole it. | ||
| Yeah, I'd be disinclined to continue to ask questions after that myself. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
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Fascinating. | |
| How many of these balls are in general circulation? | ||
| Well, I've heard there are that hundreds of them were discovered. | ||
| I had about five or six of them. | ||
| I've given a couple of them away to be examined. | ||
| I was in Johannesburg recently, and I talked to the mining engineer who originally provided me with the specimens. | ||
| And the mine is now closed. | ||
| It's not being actively worked anymore, but there are still, he's sending some people out to go through the tailings, the blocks of the mineral that are scattered around out there to see if they can find any more. | ||
| Because where these things are found, they're found in round cavities inside this very rare mineral. | ||
| Michael, how recently were you in Johannesburg? | ||
| Actually, I went in January. | ||
| I'd gone to Cape Town to speak at the World Archaeological Congress, which was an event in itself. | ||
| And I had, after that, I'd gone on a little tour, speaking tour of South Africa, Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg. | ||
| So when I was in Johannesburg, I stopped in at the mining company headquarters and talked to this mining engineer who originally sent me the specimens that I have. | ||
| And he's trying to get some more of them. | ||
| Boy, I sure would love to have one. | ||
| I was in Johannesburg, and I was going to get you to comment. | ||
| That's one dangerous mother of a place right now. | ||
| Johannesburg is really dangerous. | ||
| There is a lot of crime. | ||
| Well, I know. | ||
| When I got to South Africa, the first day I was in Cape Town, I just stayed in my hotel. | ||
| I'm not going to live my life like that. | ||
| I walked out in the streets. | ||
| Cape Town, though, was a dream compared to Johannesburg. | ||
| There was real trouble over there. | ||
| I know what you mean, but I don't know. | ||
| I live in Los Angeles. | ||
| You could get hurt on the streets of Los Angeles. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| Anyway, so he may get you some more. | ||
| Is that right? | ||
| What's that? | ||
| He may get you some more. | ||
| Yeah, he's promised to do that, and he's a very good man, and I'm sure he'll do whatever he can to do that. | ||
| Because this Muthon engineer I gave one to is also going to look at the magnetic properties of these objects. | ||
| So I'm waiting to hear. | ||
| He reported to me on the radius that I mentioned, that the radius of the object that I gave him varies by less than one four-thousandth of an inch all the way around the circumference of it. | ||
| Is there anything else in nature? | ||
| This is a very important question, anything else in nature at all that produces something of that incredible precision? | ||
| Well, we'd have to see. | ||
| You know, that's a good question. | ||
| It might be interesting to look at pearls, for example, and see. | ||
| Oh, they come in all kinds of shapes. | ||
| That's obvious to the eye. | ||
| Right, but the round ones. | ||
| Well, I guess they select the round ones to put on the... | ||
| Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what What other best evidence is there that there were others? | ||
| And I know you've got quite a bit. | ||
| Well, you know, one thing that's always fascinated me is not that there's one or two best evidences. | ||
| To me, the thing that really shocked me right in the beginning was how much of this evidence there is. | ||
| There are hundreds of reports of this evidence in the scientific literature. | ||
| Okay, well, wow us with a few. | ||
| Well, one of the cases that I've found... | ||
| This is one I encountered recently in Europe. | ||
| It's in the book. | ||
| Early in this century, there was a Belgian geologist, Dr. Rutot, who made some interesting discoveries in his country. | ||
| He found hundreds of stone tools and weapons and layers of rock 30 million years old. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And now, a couple of years ago, I was lecturing at the archaeology departments at some of the major universities in Holland and Belgium. | ||
| So when I was in Brussels, there was a French-speaking friend of mine who was taking me around to the different universities. | ||
| So I said to him, why don't we get in touch with the Royal Museum of Natural Sciences in Brussels, because that's where I suspected these objects were being kept. | ||
| So when we first started talking to the museum officials, we got them on the phone. | ||
| They said, well, we don't know anything about it. | ||
| We haven't heard of this guy. | ||
| We don't know anything about it. | ||
| So then I said, well, let's not stop there. | ||
| Let's start calling around to the individual departments in the museum, talking to individual scientists. | ||
| Finally, we found one archaeologist who admitted, well, yes, we do have them. | ||
| They're being kept. | ||
| They're not being displayed to the public. | ||
| After some more negotiation, I got permission to, this one archaeologist, he agreed to let me come into the museum. | ||
| And he took me into the storerooms. | ||
| It was a scene. | ||
| It's just like, it's exactly like this scene from, what was that film, Raiders of the Lost Ark. | ||
| You've got to be, I mean, you're talking about weapons. | ||
| Let's so that we understand. | ||
| Well, you know, like arrowheads. | ||
| I mean, I'm not talking about ray guns or anything like that. | ||
| No, no, no, no, no. | ||
| That's fine. | ||
|
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So. | |
| Arrowheads, spear points, axe heads. | ||
| Steel points. | ||
| Axe heads. | ||
| Stone, made out of stone. | ||
| Now, flint. | ||
| Basically, they're made out of flint. | ||
| And there were many hundreds of them, and there were many different types. | ||
| There were scrapers, there was no mistaking that these absolutely had purpose. | ||
| These were not something abhorrent of nature, that nature created these things that looked like tools. | ||
| There was no controversy about that. | ||
| It's obvious they're tools. | ||
| Weapons, whatever. | ||
| To Rutot, it was obvious. | ||
| To me, it was obvious. | ||
| I mean, to certain people, I guess you could always say, you know, something's a hoax or formed by nature. | ||
| I mean, that's always a possibility. | ||
|
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but with hundreds of objects, yeah, that's... | |
| And they're 30 million years old. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, well, there are things like that right here in the United States. | ||
| Okay, but how do we know they're 30 million years old? | ||
| They've done what kind of testing to establish that. | ||
| Well, here's how we know. | ||
| We've got, you know, Rutteau was a professional geologist. | ||
| He conducted the excavations, and he described exactly the locations in which they were found, the layers of rock. | ||
| There are characteristic fossils in these layers of rock. | ||
| And if you go to the, what I do is I go to the, you know, I look at the report, his report, of the exact location and the layers of the strata and things like that. | ||
| Then I go to the modern geological reporting of the exact same place. | ||
| And I see, well, what these geologists today say is the age of the layers in which he reported he found these things in an undisturbed fashion. | ||
| And that's where I get the age from. | ||
| It's from the modern geological literature on that particular location. | ||
| And that's the way I work. | ||
| Basically, you have to have some kind of framework for discussing these things with the scientific community. | ||
| Yeah, but my God, think about what you're saying. | ||
| That there were crude, albeit, weapons, tools, signs of civilization of some sort, perhaps very primitive, who knows. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But 30 million years ago, Michael? | ||
| Yeah, well, that would be before. | ||
| See, now they say the very oldest ape men, the Australopithecines, the oldest fossils that they actually have are about 4 million years old. | ||
| And the first stone tools that are generally accepted are about 2.3 million years old. | ||
| There was a recent report that was circulating in the scientific journals like Nature that even reached into the newspapers about some discoveries in Ethiopia of the oldest stone tools according to the conventional idea. | ||
| And these are about 2.3 million years old. | ||
| And they're fairly crude, if you see the pictures of them. | ||
| So to have any kind of stone tool, even if it's a very crude one, at 30 million years, Yeah, that's exactly right. | ||
| And as I said, those objects are there, but they're not displayed to the public. | ||
| And there's just... | ||
| The California gold mine case right here in the United States is another good example of that. | ||
| And here, I mean, it's even more... | ||
| All right, explain it to me. | ||
| Well, during the gold rush, you had miners going out to California. | ||
| They were digging tunnels into the sides of mountains to get out the gold. | ||
| Gold, yes. | ||
| So maybe they'd be digging, say in one report, okay, there are a thousand feet inside. | ||
| And in the solid rock, the miners are finding human skeletons, obsidian spear points, stone mortars and pestles. | ||
| I mean, there's absolutely no question about that. | ||
| Human skeletons? | ||
| Yeah, not ape men, but human. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And these were all reported to the scientific world by a professional scientist who was the state geologist of California at the time, Dr. J.D. Whitney. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he wrote a huge book about these discoveries. | ||
| It's called The Geology of the Sierra Nevadas. | ||
| It was published by Harvard University in 1880. | ||
| And we don't hear about these today. | ||
| And they date them when? | ||
| Well, they're found in layers of rock that date to the early Eocene period, which means they'd be about 50 million years old. | ||
| 50 million years old. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And again, this comes for the modern geological reporting of, say, these particular sites. | ||
| Say one of these sites where these objects were found is Table Mountain in Twolumne County in the Sierra Nevadas. | ||
| Oh, yes, I know it. | ||
| Right, it's right there, and it's still considered an economically viable area. | ||
| So it's been heavily studied right up to the present day by geologists. | ||
| You can get from the California State Geological Survey very, very detailed studies of Table Mountain. | ||
| And you can find out how old the layers of rock are at all the different levels and all the different locations. | ||
| So at this particular location, they're 50 million years old. | ||
| 15 million years old. | ||
| And they're finding human skeletons. | ||
| Now, the only argument I could see that anybody could make was that somebody at some time dug some really deep graves in relatively modern times. | ||
| Right, well, here's the problem with that. | ||
| Here's the problem with that. | ||
| The gold deposits were in gravels that were laid down by east-west running rivers running rivers in the Eocene 50 million years ago. | ||
| Then after that, here's what happened. | ||
| There were massive volcanic eruptions in that region of California. | ||
| And the whole area was covered by thousands of feet of solid basalt lava, solid rock. | ||
| And then what happened after that is you had rivers, new rivers, running east to west, cutting out canyons, sometimes thousands of feet deep, leaving these mesas. | ||
| That's what Table Mountain is. | ||
| It's like a mesa. | ||
| Okay, so what you have is these discoveries are made like in tunnels that were dug towards the bottom of Table Mountain into the solid rock straight inside. | ||
| So you go 1,000 feet inside. | ||
| Now nobody's going to dig a grave 1,000 feet through solid rock. | ||
| No, there's a lot of stuff. | ||
| And then directly above, you've got 800 feet of solid basalt with no fissures coming down. | ||
| Again, it's people, I mean, this often happens. | ||
| I'll be speaking at a university, and somebody will say, obviously, you know, it's a, just as you raise a possibility. | ||
| Well, anything is possible, but to me it's like... | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| No. | ||
| Not that far down into solid stone. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| Well, that's what I mean. | ||
| When you know all the facts, you see it's impossible. | ||
| So that's... | ||
| Well, then how do they account for it? | ||
| Here's what happened. | ||
| I mean, it's what I call a process of knowledge filtration. | ||
| There was a very influential anthropologist, Dr. William B. Holmes, who was working at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. So he had the prominent scientific position over this Dr. Whitney, who was out there in the provinces in California. | ||
| So what he said is this. | ||
| He said, if this Dr. Whitney had understood the theory of human evolution as we now understand it, then he would have hesitated to announce his discoveries despite the imposing array of testimony with which he was confronted. | ||
| Translation. | ||
| If the facts don't fit the theory, then the facts have to be set aside. | ||
| So he should have read the theory before he spoke about what appears to be a truth of destroying it. | ||
| Now, those objects are still kept in the C.B. Hearst Museum of Natural History at the University of California. | ||
| Can they be seen? | ||
| Well, we tried to see them when we were filming this NBC television special, The Mysterious Origins of Man, by Charlton Heston, broadcast a couple years ago. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Now, when they were filming that, I told the producers they should go there. | ||
| And the museum officials said, well, maybe we have them, maybe we don't, but we wouldn't have time to look because you're obviously at a very tight deadline. | ||
| Producers said, no, we've got six months to make the show. | ||
| Could you please have a look? | ||
| Maybe we have them, maybe we don't. | ||
| Well, I mean, essentially, that's not their exact words. | ||
| Michael, we're going to have to hold it right there. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Remember, folks, reality, infected with a virus. | ||
| Chew it over. | ||
|
unidentified
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You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 12, 1999. | |
| Beautiful magical, all the buckets of trees. | ||
| Maybe singing so happily. | ||
| Oh, joyfully. | ||
| Oh, happy believer. | ||
| Then they send me away, give me happy. | ||
| Oh, happy happy. | ||
| Show me a world that I could be so dependable Or clinical Oh | ||
| Oh I'm feeling the wave from the crest of a wave just like magic. | ||
| Oh, I'm rolling and riding and flipping and climbing, it's magic. | ||
| And you and the wind tonight, you and me. | ||
| Oh, higher and higher, baby. | ||
| It's over everything. | ||
| It's a terrible thing to lose. | ||
| It's a guarantee. | ||
| What a terrible thing to lose. | ||
| It's a guarantee. | ||
| You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | ||
| Well, my internet connections are out between here in Las Vegas. | ||
| And boy are they out. | ||
| I mean, I can't even get a studio cam picture to the website. | ||
| And I'm just realizing how crippled I feel. | ||
| Here we are talking about people who were walking around on the earth 50 million years ago. | ||
| We're talking about strong evidence of that. | ||
| And here's Art saying, his right leg feels like it's gone because he can't get through to the internet. | ||
| Are we dependent or what? | ||
| Not you, you say? | ||
| Well, I'm realizing how dependent on all of this I am. | ||
| Absolutely amazing. | ||
| It's down and it's like I can't do a thing. | ||
| But actually, I can. | ||
| I can do the show. | ||
| Michael Primo will be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Michael Primo will be right back. | |
| Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price. | ||
| The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app. | ||
| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy. | ||
| If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider. | ||
| Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up. | ||
| You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| You know, there is terrorism out there, so in an effort to try to fight it or combat it, we give up these rights. | ||
| I'm convinced that there are groups out there, sinister, powerful groups, that would create this terror to continue to control us. | ||
| I think you're absolutely correct. | ||
| But of course, anybody that's followed the process of government throughout history, once a government has been given a certain amount of power, it always speaks more. | ||
| And to suggest that our government is different because it's America, I guess that just shows how historically ignorant the American people have become. | ||
| Because in a real sense, these things are our fault. | ||
| Americans are, in fact, now trading liberty for security. | ||
| Every day, this is going to happen now in our future, that we're going to allow this. | ||
| It's just a matter of time. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Back to Michael Cremo, and the one thing I can do, because I'm telling you, my internet is flat gone. | ||
| Michael Cremo, back again. | ||
| The California gold rush. | ||
| Thousands of feet beneath solid rock, they find human, not pre-human, but human skeletons. | ||
| That's pretty impressive stuff, all right. | ||
| And we were talking about the museum who said, well, we might or might not have this stuff. | ||
| That's where we were. | ||
| Well, what happened is when we were filming the NBC television special, The Mysterious Origins of Man, which featured a lot of the material from the hidden history of the human race, the producers went there, on my advice, to the Hearst Museum of Natural History at the University of California at Berkeley because I told them that those 50 million-year-old artifacts from those California gold mines were probably there. | ||
| So when they talked to the officials, when they got in contact with the officials, the officials said, well, we just don't have time to look for them because if you're making a television program, you've probably got a very tight deadline. | ||
| So the producers told them, no, we have six months. | ||
| Could you have a look? | ||
| And then they came back with another excuse. | ||
| They said, well, we'd have to pay our staff overtime to do this. | ||
| We have a very small budget. | ||
| We can't afford it. | ||
| The producers came back and said, well, we'll pay all the expenses. | ||
| Now, finally, they just said no. | ||
| Oh, now, really? | ||
| They just gave you any basis for a flat no? | ||
| They didn't give any reason. | ||
| They just said, no, we can't do it. | ||
| We're not going to do it. | ||
| And I think that's very strange since it's a public, tax-supported museum. | ||
| Oh, it's strange. | ||
| It's going to be open to the people. | ||
| Now, even though we weren't able to get any new video footage of these artifacts, I think the reason it's pretty clear why they wouldn't let the television cameras in is because they suspected that this was going to be used in a way that went against their pet theory. | ||
| So that was the end of that. | ||
| So we had to use the photographs that were taken in the 19th century of these objects. | ||
| When this television program aired, it was really amazing. | ||
| The scientific community, Orthodox scientific community, was absolutely outraged because they'd never seen anything like this on NBC before. | ||
| And they became even more upset when they learned that NBC was going to show it again. | ||
| Michael, who took the photographs in the 1900s? | ||
| Do you know? | ||
| Yeah, they appeared in the book that was published by Dr. J.D. Whitney, who was the state geologist in California. | ||
| They're in that book that was published in 1880. | ||
| I've got you. | ||
| So we've got them. | ||
| In other words, we know they exist. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, yeah, the objects definitely are there. | ||
| And he said he placed them with the University of California at Berkeley back in the last century when it first opened up. | ||
| So in any case, when these scientists learned that this program was going to be aired again, they went to the General Electric Company. | ||
| There was a big letter-writing campaign on the Internet, on all the scientific discussion groups where scientists were being asked to write to the president of General Electric which owns NBC asking him to tell NBC not to show this program. | ||
| Now NBC turned around and instead made publicity saying watch the program the scientists don't want you to see. | ||
| Which made these people even more angry. | ||
| So then they went to the FCC, Federal Cooperation. | ||
| They went to the FCC. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| So their proposal was, there was a Dr. Allison Palmer who was president of the Institute for Cambrian Studies, one of the scientific research groups. | ||
| He sent a letter and he said, NBC should be punished for having shown this program. | ||
| What? | ||
| And his proposal was that NBC should be forced to broadcast public prime time apologies saying, we're very sorry, American people. | ||
| We didn't mean it. | ||
| We're quite sorry. | ||
| And he also wanted the FCC to fine NBC millions of dollars so they would never do this again. | ||
| I'm a little bit familiar with the FCC. | ||
| Under what FCC authority would that kind of material be controlled under any circumstance? | ||
| I mean, come on. | ||
| It was considered, he said it was crass and irresponsible journalism for this television network to broadcast this kind of information to the American people. | ||
| The FCC diagnosed science. | ||
| The FCC doesn't make those kinds of determinations. | ||
| What a ludicrous thing to do. | ||
| They don't determine that. | ||
| If they determined what was crass, hell, half of what we got on there now wouldn't be on there. | ||
| Right, that's true. | ||
| But I think he thought it was particularly offensive that the television program was rebroadcast over the objections of responsible scientists. | ||
| Now, I agree with you that it's ridiculous. | ||
| Of course, the FCC didn't do anything, but I think it shows something about the mentality of these people. | ||
| Now, this wasn't just a private letter to the FCC. | ||
| This letter was widely distributed all over the Internet and all the scientific discussion groups in an attempt to build a campaign of intimidation, basically. | ||
| Now, it didn't work, I'm happy to say. | ||
| Of course, the FCC didn't go along with it. | ||
| But I think the very fact that such an attempt was made shows us something about the mentality of these people. | ||
| Because normally, I mean, the way we're told that science should work is the evidence is there. | ||
| Well, I'll tell you what's on your side, Michael. | ||
| It's easy to see. | ||
| NBC, let's think about what does NBC care about? | ||
| Do they care about the complaint of a bunch of scientists? | ||
| Or do they care about ratings and money? | ||
| Yeah, obviously. | ||
| But if that could be... | ||
| Now, there's something that I reflect on. | ||
| I mean, I really don't know who really runs this country or the world. | ||
| I mean, I can't say that I know for sure. | ||
| But I would suspect that, from what I can see, there may be some divisions up there. | ||
| By the way, I say that with no malice at all. | ||
| In other words, NBC should care about ratings and money. | ||
| They're in business. | ||
| That's what they're in business for. | ||
| And so, obviously, the ratings are going to talk, and the scientists are going to walk. | ||
| Well, I hope that's true. | ||
| But I think I suspect that there are some people at NBC who do care a little bit more about the ratings and the money. | ||
| I think they certainly care about That. | ||
| But I think somebody put their little reputation on the line putting a show like that out. | ||
| And. | ||
| Yeah, it was gutsy. | ||
| Yeah, it was. | ||
| You know, you've heard of Psycop, of course. | ||
| I heard of Psycop. | ||
| Right, okay. | ||
| I have their award. | ||
| I am their recipient for this year's award. | ||
| You know that. | ||
| The Snuffed Candle Award. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
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You didn't know that? | |
| No, congratulations. | ||
| I have it proudly on my wall, the Snuffed Candle Award, given to Art Bell this year. | ||
| Well, I guess you're familiar with the fact that they had started a campaign to buy stock and media companies in order to go to board meetings to try to get them to stop showing programs like the X-Files and things like that. | ||
|
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Really? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, somebody passed along to me last year a newspaper article where that was laid out, where that little strategy was laid out. | ||
|
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Wow. | |
| Because they want to go to the board meetings and try. | ||
| They're upset. | ||
| I mean, certain people are upset about. | ||
| They want imagination shut down, huh? | ||
| Yeah, that would appear to be. | ||
| It's a real cranky kind of materialism that they. | ||
| PSYCOP is a cranky organization. | ||
| Yeah, very cranky, very old-fashioned, 19th century rationalism, skepticism type of stuff. | ||
| I had Dr. Nickel on. | ||
| He's a very interesting man. | ||
| You know Dr. Nickel? | ||
| No. | ||
| I don't know everybody. | ||
| Joe Nickel? | ||
| What's he doing? | ||
|
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Okay. | |
| Well, he's one of the spokespeople for PSYCOP. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And so I brought him on the air after they gave me this award, and we got about halfway through the show, and, you know, we were talking about various things that Psycop said was a bunch of hooey. | ||
| And, you know, they were saying my show was a bunch of hooey. | ||
| So I finally got Professor Nicol on the air in about, I don't know, third or fourth break. | ||
| And I said, oh, by the way, Doctor, have you ever heard my program? | ||
| No. | ||
| I said, excuse me? | ||
| You're here justifying giving me this dubious honor and you've never heard my program? | ||
| No, he said. | ||
| And that just stopped me. | ||
| I mean, I almost couldn't do the rest of the show, but I did. | ||
| The guy had never heard the program he was here saying was full of baloney. | ||
| He should give the award to himself. | ||
| So you're right. | ||
| I mean, they're kind of an unusual organization preserving old paradigms, even if they're not true, at any expense. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Earlier this year, I spent some time in Poland and Hungary, which are, of course, former communist countries, of course. | ||
| And I sort of compared there, when speaking to audiences there, I sort of compared this scientific orthodoxy that's now in charge to be sort of like the Communist Party in its last days. | ||
| Because the people are really going in a different direction, as far as I can see. | ||
| Every Gallup poll I see, I mean, 60% of the American people believe in the UFOs, they believe in the paranormal, they believe in all this stuff. | ||
| Some of it's as high as 70%. | ||
| Yeah, maybe those are the latest figures. | ||
| So the people are going in an entirely different direction. | ||
| Even within these scientific orthodoxies, there are defectors. | ||
| There are scientists who are stepping out, forming their own research organizations to look into things that they're not allowed to look into. | ||
| It is, however, in academia, a very slow process because so many of them have been crushed like ants that a chill went down the spine of anybody who would dare step forward and challenge a traditional belief. | ||
| Well, I think that happens. | ||
| I think when things are in their last stages, these orthodoxies become even more dependent. | ||
| It's like the Communist Party, right up to the end, they still had their hands on the levers of power, you know, the military, the police, the press. | ||
| I think these scientists are like that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Maybe I'm a little more optimistic than you are at that point, but I kind of think they're nearing the end of their rope, really. | ||
| Well, remember, That's right. | ||
| That's where they become a little dangerous. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Absolutely. | ||
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So what do you think would change? | |
| Let's imagine a world where Michael Cremo has proven everything. | ||
| Somehow, ratings and money have tempted large networks into distributing this information again and again until finally most of the American people believe it. | ||
| What would change if we suddenly believed that we had been here 50 million years ago or longer or even billions of years? | ||
| What would change in our current society? | ||
| Well, here's what I think would happen. | ||
| First of all, there'd be a demand for a new explanation of human origin. | ||
| See, that's what's really, I think, behind the incredible resistance that's coming out from the scientific community. | ||
| Because they know what it will lead to is an explanation of a different sort. | ||
| I think an explanation that's going to have to involve some kind of intelligent design and control in the universe. | ||
| Because the evidence for a human presence goes so far back on this planet that I don't think it can be explained by any evolutionary process. | ||
| I think you have to start going back to the design hypothesis. | ||
| Okay, that's where I was going next. | ||
| In other words, what do you imagine, Michael, the most logical explanation might be? | ||
| Well, the way I look at it is, you know, if we're going to talk about human origins, you know, we've got to understand what a human being is. | ||
| You know, if we think a human being is just composed of ordinary matter, that sort of limits the explanations you can give for origins. | ||
| But I think there's quite a bit of evidence that we're composed of more than that. | ||
| I would say we're composed of three things, matter, mind, and spirit. | ||
| And I don't think we need much proof that there's some matter involved. | ||
| No. | ||
| no no but mind Yeah, now mind is something else. | ||
| Now, here you get into another whole hidden area of science that I would call the hidden history of physics. | ||
| Say, most people don't know this, but say, for example, Marie Curie and her husband, Pierre Curie, got the Nobel Prize for discovering radium. | ||
| Every physics student knows that. | ||
| What you won't hear is that they were heavily involved in what's called psychical research. | ||
| You won't read about that in your physics textbooks. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| But, well, for example, they were investigating a medium, an Italian medium named Eusepia Palladino. | ||
| They conducted several months of experiments with her, not just the Curies, but several prominent European scientists in Paris were engaged in these experiments. | ||
| And Pierre Curie, Nobel Prize-winning physicist, said that under carefully controlled conditions where you had Marie holding this woman's hands and other French scientists holding her feet and every other part of her body to make sure she wasn't moving, Pierre Curie says he saw a table floating four feet in the air in the middle of the room in broad daylight with nothing touching it. | ||
| Now, for a Nobel Prize-winning physicist to testify to that and write letters To his physicist friends about it and say it's absolutely true. | ||
| Yeah, we don't hear about that in school, do we? | ||
| No, you know. | ||
| But I think it tends to point to the existence of a mind element. | ||
| And then when you get into the medical literature on out-of-body experiences and people like that, I think you get a picture that there's a conscious self that can exist apart from the mind and the body made of ordinary matter. | ||
| I wouldn't do that. | ||
| So then, if you admit all that, then you have to, if you're going to explain where human beings or any other life form came from, you've got to explain where all that came from, how it all came together. | ||
| And I said, I mean, it inevitably leads to some kind of discussion of design, control, God, things of that nature, which the current scientific establishment just wants to keep totally, completely out of the picture. | ||
| And I think there's a reason for that. | ||
| You know, there's different kinds of power in this world. | ||
| There's military power, economic power, political power, there's intellectual power. | ||
| And that intellectual power carries with it the power to set the direction for an entire civilization. | ||
| Because what we do, you know, really that intellectually, there is a war that goes on between the intellectuals and the entire concept of God, right? | ||
| Yes, it's been going on for quite a, well, for about the past three centuries. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I thought. | ||
| All right, listen, we're at a place where we have to break. | ||
| So hold on, Michael. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| That war is still waging as we speak. | ||
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks. | |
| Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | ||
| All obstacles in my way. | ||
| Going on the dark clouds that had me glide. | ||
| It's going to be bright, bright, bright, bright, sunshiny day. | ||
| It's gonna be bright, bright, sunshiny day. | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| You wanna be a little brave. | ||
| I'm telling you we gotta save the air Don't bring me down No, no, no, no, no I'll tell you one more Before I get up the floor Don't bring me down Don't bring me down Don't bring me down Free Meadow Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Tonight's program originally aired May 12, 1999. | ||
| Michael Cremo is here, and he's saying that we've been here... | ||
| 50 million years? | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Or 2 billion? | ||
| Could you swallow that? | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| Is there a war between academia and the clergy and the whole concept of God? | ||
| Of course there is. | ||
| There has to be. | ||
| I wonder if this is a war that will be settled in our lifetimes. | ||
| We'll get back to Michael in a moment. | ||
| You're listening to Coast to Coast AM, the one and only. | ||
|
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Coast to Coast AM Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | |
| Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Good morning, everybody. | ||
| Michael Cremos here. | ||
| Michael, we'll get back to this larger concept of the war in a second. | ||
| I've got a pass from somebody who tells me that the March issue of the Mutual UFO Network, UFO Journal, had an article about a skeleton that had been discovered in Ladonia, Texas. | ||
| Do you know anything about that? | ||
| Not very offhand, no. | ||
| Okay, well then it goes on to say the skeleton, which was not fossilized, is the remains of a humanoid-type creature that was 39 and 5 8 inches tall, had three fingers and a thumb with only a single finger joint. | ||
| Humans have two, and its skull has large sclerotic eye rings. | ||
| And in fact, he includes a photograph of this in the facts. | ||
| It's really, really weird looking, and nobody can explain it. | ||
| So that might be something that might be down your alley. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| Well, I'm going to Texas next week, Dallas, to speak at the Eclectic Society there. | ||
| So maybe somebody will have some information they can give to me at that time. | ||
| And I'm aware of certain skulls that are circulating that are said to be very, very old right now, or possibly not even human. | ||
| In your look back at what human beings originate from, do you find much evidence of, or any evidence, of what would apparently be non-humans? | ||
| Non-humans in the sense of ape men or apes and monkeys or well, for example, I just read you this skeleton they just remember. | ||
| It's interesting. | ||
| Now, according to the ancient Sanskrit writings of India, which I study quite extensively, there are 400,000 different human species scattered throughout the universe. | ||
| So I might expect that you could find a lot of strange humanoid creatures. | ||
| Not necessarily that we're descended from them, but they're just other kinds of bodies. | ||
| There's a whole literature, of course, on strange giant skeletons being found on this planet, some of them with two rows of teeth and some of them of quite large size. | ||
| And these are getting buried, aren't they, along with other archaeological things that don't fit. | ||
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Right. | |
| Well, what often happens is this. | ||
| If something radically contradicts the accepted ideas, it tends not to get preserved in the standard ways that evidence are preserved in the scientific world. | ||
| Or if it is preserved, you don't know where it is and you can't get access to it. | ||
| That's often what happens to these strange objects. | ||
| You find the reports. | ||
| Now, in some cases, I mean, these things have been reported, the giant skeletons of humanoid creatures have been reported, I don't know, for hundreds of years. | ||
| I mean, you've got reports of them going back in Europe to the 16th and 17th centuries. | ||
| In some cases, they have turned out to be skeletons of other animals, such as mammoths or giant tapirs or giant bears, things of that sort. | ||
| Like a lot of UFO reports turn out to be aircraft, you know. | ||
| Right, but that doesn't mean there's no UFOs, and it doesn't mean there's no giants. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Because some of the descriptions, I mean, they're obviously not animals. | ||
| They talk of tombs being opened, and they have names inscribed on them, and the skeletons have all kinds of artifacts and decorations with them. | ||
| But when you try to find these things today, if you actually try to see if you can get a hold of the bones, it's often very, very difficult. | ||
| So that's one problem. | ||
| Well, I can tell you, Michael, from personal experience, if you deal in things that upset people's cherished little belief systems, you are attacked without mercy. | ||
| And I mean you are attacked without mercy. | ||
| Well, you know, I've had, you know, I was in Hungary a couple of years ago, and there was a Hungarian edition of The Hidden History of the Human Race published in that country. | ||
| And I spoke at some of the universities there. | ||
| And I was getting packed auditoriums. | ||
| Students, hundreds of students were coming. | ||
| They were sitting in the aisleways, standing in the doorways. | ||
| They were buying dozens of copies of this book. | ||
| Now, I went back again to Hungary this year, and a professor at one of the universities, at one of these universities said that after I had spoken there, the fundamentalist Darwinist scientists in the university started going through the entire school looking for the person who had authorized the lecture, who had let it happen. | ||
| And they suspected this one particular professor, and they tried to get him removed from his department, unsuccessfully, I'm happy to say. | ||
| Witch hunts. | ||
| But then he said that there had been a gathering in Budapest of some of the leading scientists in the country who had more or less decided among themselves that I wasn't going to be allowed to speak at any more of the universities in that country. | ||
| Now, again, I see a pattern like this. | ||
| Sometimes these attempts are made but they're not successful because I went back again this year to Hungary and I spoke at the universities again. | ||
| And a good parallel is my program. | ||
| The people are here in massive, unbelievable, unaccountable numbers. | ||
| You know, it amazes people how many people listen to this show. | ||
| But from the science side, we get ridicule and worse, you know, personal attacks and whatever they think will work. | ||
| I mean, they're just absolutely mortified that we would broadcast this kind of information. | ||
| Believe me, Michael. | ||
| But the people, oh, they're here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think, you know, even some of these orthodox scientists, I'll give you an example. | ||
| You know, when I was in Hungary a couple of years ago, I was lecturing on my forbidden archaeology subject, but I was also talking sometimes about this hidden history of physics that we were going over a little bit earlier. | ||
| So I was invited to give a talk at the Department of Nuclear Physics at the Maine Science University in Budapest. | ||
| And I went there and I laid out for them this whole hidden history of physics about the Curies doing paranormal psychical research, other Nobel Prize-winning physicists doing it. | ||
| I went through the whole history with them. | ||
| And I was wondering, well, what are they going to say? | ||
| So the audience was all physics professors and graduate students of physics. | ||
| So afterwards, the head of the physics department of a big university came up to me and he said, actually, I'm very glad that you gave this talk because he says, by day, I'm a plasma physicist. | ||
| Privately, I'm conducting experiments in telepathy. | ||
| And he said, I put my little son in another room. | ||
| And I'm in another room and I flip a coin. | ||
| If it's heads, I project the image heads to him. | ||
| If it's tails, I project the image tails. | ||
| He says, my son is getting 70 to 80% correct. | ||
| Far above what you'd expect by chance. | ||
| So he asked me, well, he said, I wouldn't tell this to any of my colleagues because they think I'm completely, totally crazy. | ||
| But he asked me to put him in touch secretly with some psychical researchers in the United States, which I agreed to do. | ||
| Now, I took that as another sign that some of these people by day, they look ordinary. | ||
| They may walk the walk of ordinary scientists. | ||
| They have to, Michael. | ||
| But yeah, they do have to. | ||
| Now, because I'm not part of that establishment, I can say what I want. | ||
| I go to these scientific conferences and I say the most outrageous things. | ||
| And, well, for example, when I went to the World Archaeological Congress just this January, I gave a talk focusing on just the past two million years. | ||
| I didn't get into the 50 million-year-old stuff or the 2 billion-year-old stuff. | ||
| I just, okay, I said, all right, I'll just focus on it. | ||
| For you, modern history. | ||
| Yeah, for you, modern history. | ||
| For them. | ||
| Now, the older ones were kind of sitting on their hands. | ||
| But the next day, a young woman came up to me and she said, you know, I was at your talk and I agreed with everything you said. | ||
| Keyword young woman. | ||
| Well, here again, though, she turned out to be one of the younger archaeologists from one of the universities in South Africa and it's genuine. | ||
| And, you know, now she's got a copy of this book. | ||
| She's reading it. | ||
| We're corresponding about it. | ||
| And I find this all around the world, that some of the younger, the younger people who are entering the scientific community, they've been exposed, well, to your show, to a lot of other things. | ||
| And I think they have a different mentality than their elders. | ||
| Well, they might be more inclined to privately think other things. | ||
| But I've got to say that you're right about that. | ||
| But I'm going to give you the negative side is once they get into the system and they learn that there is only one way to survive within it, 99.9% are going to change. | ||
| Well, I don't know if they'll change, but they just might do what they think they have to do to survive. | ||
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Yeah. | |
| Yeah, and that's not... | ||
| I think that was also the situation with the Communist Party, too. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| But at a certain point, I think it's got to break. | ||
| You've got to live life one day at a time. | ||
| You've got to have a paycheck. | ||
| You've got to, you know, all the normal things of life. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And if you stick your neck out, they'll cut all that off. | ||
| Yeah, but I think there's a critical mass when you have enough people that are just faking it like that at a certain point. | ||
| At a certain point, I think it has to break. | ||
| But, you know, that's personal opinion. | ||
| What other evidence is there to throw in their face? | ||
| And here on the show, of course, you can do that. | ||
| Well, one piece of evidence that I find pretty interesting is the footprints that were found by Mary Leakey at a place called Laitoli in the country of Tanzania in East Africa. | ||
| Now, the very prominent physical anthropologists who have looked at these footprints say they are anatomically modern. | ||
| They're no different than the footprints you or I would make if we were walking in the field. | ||
| Just like our feet. | ||
| They found these footprints where? | ||
| And they're 4 million years old. | ||
| They're found in solidified volcanic ash that's 4 million years old. | ||
| Now, the normal explanation that they have for this is, well, there must have existed 4 million years ago some kind of ape man that had feet just like ours. | ||
| But they already have the skeletons of the ape men that existed 4 million years ago in Africa, and they're called Australopithecus. | ||
| Their foot structure is quite different from ours. | ||
| So this actually came up for me at the World Archaeological Congress where I was speaking, but also speaking was a scientist named Ron Clark, who had discovered last year at a place called Sterckfontein in South Africa a fairly complete skeleton of Australopithecus. | ||
| And this discovery was widely advertised all over the world last fall as being the oldest missing link, the oldest human ancestor. | ||
| That was 4 million years old. | ||
| But the foot he had constructed it, it was quite ape-like. | ||
| It had a big toe that was long and moved out to the side like a human thumb. | ||
| If you look at your thumb, it's long and it can move widely out to the side. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So the toe of this creature was like that, and its other toes were also quite long, sort of like human fingers. | ||
| So it's 4 million years old. | ||
| So I asked him, after he gave his talk there, I put up my hand and I said, okay, well, why is it that the foot of your Sterk-Fontaine ape man, which is 4 million years old, why doesn't it match the footprints, the anatomically modern footprints discovered by Mary Leakey in 1979, which are totally modern and also 4 million years old? | ||
| You see what the problem is for him? | ||
| He's saying he's got the oldest missing link, but you've got evidence elsewhere in Africa that human beings like ourselves were walking around at the same time. | ||
| What did he say? | ||
| How did he answer my question? | ||
| He said, well, it was my stairconteign ape man that made those footprints, but he was walking with his big toe pressed up against his other toes, and his other long toes, he was walking with them, curled under, you know, to make footprints that looked human. | ||
| And you're laughing. | ||
| I was laughing too, but none of the 700 of the world's leading archaeologists were laughing. | ||
| They were nodding their heads, saying, yeah. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Which just goes to show you how this knowledge filtration process works. | ||
| How can they keep straight faces out there? | ||
| And here's another thing. | ||
| I'm serious. | ||
| I mean, how could they not laugh? | ||
| Seriously, how could they not laugh? | ||
| Presented with that kind of ludicrous explanation for what? | ||
| Because they so deeply believe that human beings didn't exist at that time and it only could have been an ape-man, so that's the only possible explanation they can think of. | ||
| Don't bother me with the facts. | ||
| Just give me the best wild explanation you can come up with and I'll embrace it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I thought it was very, well, I don't think it was so strange, but as you can imagine, I think I was the only person there that had enough sense to ask that very obvious question. | ||
| Now this came up, now this is really funny. | ||
| A couple of weeks later, I was in Johannesburg, and I was on a talk radio show, their talk radio, on one of their talk radio programs, and I was discussing this whole exchange I'd had with Ron Clark. | ||
| Producers were very sharp. | ||
| They got Ron Clark on the phone and they brought him on. | ||
| And he was just livid. | ||
| And he said, this is all baloney. | ||
| And I said, Ron, you may call it baloney, but those footprints are there and they are anatomically modern. | ||
| I said, furthermore, there's a lot of other evidence that human beings were present 4 million years ago and earlier. | ||
| So you really don't have the oldest missing link. | ||
| You've just got some ape man that was coexisting with human beings like ourselves. | ||
| So then he said, well, there's no scientist has ever reported any evidence for anatomically modern humans existing four million years ago. | ||
| And so I listed three or four cases where scientists had reported such evidence. | ||
| And then he said, well, scientists, sometimes even scientists say crazy things that aren't true. | ||
| And I felt like saying, oh, yeah, like you too. | ||
| So we have quite a shouting match there on South African radio. | ||
| It's a lot of fun. | ||
| Yeah, talk radio is new to South Africa. | ||
| It's actually been going a little longer in Johannesburg than it has Cape Town. | ||
| But it's quite active in Johannesburg. | ||
| And it's kind of interesting because African people are not used to being able to speak out. | ||
| So for a long time when they began talk radio over there, nobody would call a talk station and say anything controversial because they thought somebody would come and kill them. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They're just sort of figuring out they can do it now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, talk radio is new in a lot of countries around the world. | ||
| I was in Europe two years ago. | ||
| I talked on the first talk radio station in Holland. | ||
| I was amazed. | ||
| First one ever. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
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But I think it's healthy. | |
| Well, so where do you think you are in this battle now, honestly? | ||
| Are you actually gaining ground? | ||
| Can you affirmatively state that? | ||
| Or are you still batting your head up against the wall? | ||
| Well, there's a few positive signs. | ||
| Of course, I'm not going to exaggerate my successes. | ||
| I mean, there is an orthodoxy out there. | ||
| It still is pretty firmly in control. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| But what I would say is the people are moving in a different direction. | ||
| Some of the younger scientists are moving in a different direction. | ||
| And even some of the older ones, there are a few of them that are prepared to admit, well, possibly they could be wrong. | ||
| And may I say one more thing? | ||
| Let's see if you agree with this. | ||
| This is an important aspect. | ||
| I'm sure I'm going to be viewed as a heretic for suggesting it or that it's sacrilegious. | ||
| But I believe in a Creator. | ||
| And for me, personally, there is not a conflict with believing that human beings have been around for millions or, if you wish, billions of years and that there was still a creator involved in the process. | ||
| Well, that's my idea exactly. | ||
| It's something I'm going to be talking about in a book that I'm writing now. | ||
| Well, you're really going to get into trouble with that one because you're attacking the main reason, of course, why all of this is suppressed and people like you have to write books about this kind of thing. | ||
| But why couldn't there be a Creator involved? | ||
| And why couldn't it be not literally and specifically as outlined in the Bible, but the Bible generally true to accommodate this truth and still believe in a Creator? | ||
| Well, it's very interesting. | ||
| Recently, I can't name this person, but recently I've been corresponding with a Catholic philosopher who's at a university in the United States, a Catholic institution, and he's writing a book about Christian theology and the origin of the human species. | ||
| Somehow or other, he got a copy of Forbidden Archaeology, and it just blew his mind, really. | ||
| It changed his whole conception of things. | ||
| And he's working on making a proposal more or less along the lines that you just suggested. | ||
| Now, I think that's really fantastic. | ||
| I think it's really fantastic. | ||
| Well, so do I. I wish I will with it. | ||
| But he'll be lucky not to be dancing on the end of a rope. | ||
| That's a possibility. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| All right, Michael. | ||
| When we come back, I'm going to open the lines and we'll let him at you and see what happens with the people, okay? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right, Michael Crimo is my guest. | ||
| Forbidden archaeology is his stock and trade. | ||
| And underline the forbidden part, for real, forbidden. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
|
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This is Coast to Coast, A.S. You never see what you want to see. | |
| For everything good we gotta move You take the long way home You take the long way home When you're up on the lake, you're unbelievable Unforgettable, how may it go? | ||
| If anyone seems to think you're losing the sanity Oh, the vanity, with a long way out All | ||
| right, let's go. | ||
| You're listening to Artfell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks. | ||
| Tonight's an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12, 1999. | ||
| My guest is Michael Cremo and he's talking about all of us. | ||
| Where we came from, when we came, all of the great mysteries that... | ||
| Lots of hints. | ||
| We could be very old. | ||
| We could be very young. | ||
| Or we could be, I suppose, very simply Darwin. | ||
|
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intriguing the stop and will get right back to it Looking for the truth? | |
| You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| In Indonesia, rice farmers got quite a surprise when they discovered that overnight, a large crop circle had mysteriously formed in one of their fields. | ||
| There has to be a reason, though, for the geometric patterns here. | ||
| But I don't think the point is to decipher them. | ||
| I think the point is to realize that there's other intelligence in the universe. | ||
| They're visiting us. | ||
| We're not visiting them. | ||
| So until they tell us who they are, it's a mystery. | ||
| ScreamLink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year. | ||
| The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP FreePlayer, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs. | ||
| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure. | ||
| Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Somewhere Inside Shows, and two weekly classics. | ||
| And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests. | ||
| If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insiders. | ||
| Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. | ||
| You know, there is terrorism out there, so in an effort to try to fight it or combat it, we give up these rights. | ||
| I'm convinced that there are groups out there, sinister, powerful groups, that would create this terror to continue to control us. | ||
| I think you're absolutely correct. | ||
| But of course, anybody that's followed the process of government throughout history, once a government has been given a certain amount of power, it always seeks more. | ||
| And to suggest that our government is different because it's America, I guess that just shows how historically ignorant the American people have become. | ||
| Because in a real sense, these things are our fault. | ||
| Americans are, in fact, now trading liberty for security. | ||
| Every day, this is going to happen now in our future, that we're going to allow this. | ||
| It's just a matter of time. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Art Bell Now that we've taken care of all of that, let me go right back to my guest. | ||
| Michael, are you there? | ||
| Yes, I am. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I want to bring something up just before serving you back up to the public again. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I have had the high honor and privilege and sometimes fearsome duty of sitting between scholars like Robert Hancock, Graham Hancock, and Robert Baval, and Zahi Hawass, who is the director of Antiquities in Egypt. | ||
| And I have moderated what I will laughingly call discussions that turned into sessions where people nearly throttled each other. | ||
| Actually, they were much better in person than they were apart. | ||
| But the discussions, the arguments have been about the pyramid and the Sphinx in Egypt. | ||
| And we're talking about a difference between, say, 2,000 years and 10 or 11,000 years. | ||
| And these people were ripping each other to shreds, my friend. | ||
| So what's your take on the age of the artifacts in Egypt? | ||
| And what do you think about their argument? | ||
| I mean, they're only arguing about a few thousand years. | ||
| Well, that's dealing with the history of civilization, which is you're dealing with a different timeframe there. | ||
| Say, as far as the anatomically modern human species, scientists will give it at 100 or 200,000 years. | ||
| Now, for civilization, the standard idea is you don't have any kind of organized urban life or even organized village life on a high level until about 10,000 years ago maximum in the Middle East. | ||
| And they put the higher civilizations like Egypt, the Egyptian civilization, going back only about 6,000 or 7,000 years to 3,000 or 4,000 BC, something like that. | ||
| So there you're dealing with different time scale. | ||
| I'm dealing with things that are over 100 or 200,000 years. | ||
| I realize that, but what I guess I was drawing attention to was, I mean, here are these academics fighting like cats and dogs about a few thousand years, only a few thousand years ago. | ||
| And you are proposing vastly greater amounts of time for what you think may be true. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So it's going to be in terms of how hard a fight is it. | ||
| Well, you know, Graham Hancock and I have met, and he appreciates my work, and I appreciate his. | ||
| He actually wrote the foreword to the new paperback edition of The Hidden History of the Human Race. | ||
| I can see what you would have in common, yes. | ||
| Yeah, so I think we're working at different points of the time scale. | ||
| He's challenging the accepted ideas of the origin of civilization in Egypt. | ||
| I think that the intensity of the conflict doesn't necessarily have to do with how many years you're going back, but how much the Orthodox scientists have invested in holding to a particular date. | ||
| Yeah, but if they've got a lot invested in the Egyptian date that they cling to, imagine how much is invested in the bigger picture that you're challenging. | ||
| Yes, I think you're right there. | ||
| I think you're absolutely right about that. | ||
| It's interesting. | ||
| If you look at the Egyptian writings themselves, I mean, what their historians have to say, I mean, their pharaoh lists go back 48,000 years or more. | ||
| You go to the Babylonian king list, and their lists of kings go back 432,000 years. | ||
| You go to India, they have histories there that go back millions of years. | ||
| China, the same thing. | ||
| The emperor list in China go back tens of thousands of years. | ||
| So what happened basically is in the 18th and 19th centuries when the Europeans kind of spread their influence all over the world, they rewrote the histories for these people, basically. | ||
| And I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that at that time, most of the European scientists, I mean, this would be before Darwinism, most of them accepted this young age for the Earth that you were talking about. | ||
| So when they went to these other countries, you know, and saw these accounts of histories going back tens and tens of thousands of years, perhaps millions of years, well, they tried to fit it all within 10,000 years. | ||
| Now, the reasons they did that had a lot to do with just the particular religious ideas they were operating under at that time. | ||
| And then later on, when Darwinism more or less knocked those religious foundations out, the historians still kept that very limited time frame for the histories of all these various countries. | ||
| But you go to the Mayans, they have these calendars going back hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years. | ||
| You find it all over the world. | ||
| It's a similar pattern. | ||
| So I think what we're in the process of doing is we're gradually waking up to what the real histories of these countries are. | ||
| And I think, see, one thing is, when the Europeans established their dominance over these countries, they took over the educational systems. | ||
| And even the native peoples who live in these countries, they've more or less given up on their own histories because they've been trained in the institutions that the Europeans set up, basically. | ||
| That's an amazing thing to consider. | ||
| Yeah, it is. | ||
| And now if anybody challenges this, they're labeled a fundamentalist or this or that or the other. | ||
| But it's a very powerful kind of intellectual domination. | ||
| Many of these countries, they think, anyways, that they've become freed from the political or the economic or military domination of European countries. | ||
| But as far as the intellectual domination that was established over them, I think they've yet to come to terms with that. | ||
| Well, we just laid pretty heavily into the Europeans, but I frankly don't think that those who crossed to the new land have done much better. | ||
| Oh, the Americans. | ||
| Well, yeah, well, here's something. | ||
| I mean, a lot of the Native American scholars, like Vine DeLoria, for example, I think he's a Sioux Indian, but he's a professor of history at the University of California, Boulder, Colorado. | ||
| He quoted extensively from my book, Forbidden Archaeology, in a book that he wrote a few years ago called Red Lands, White Lies, published by Scribner's, major publisher. | ||
| Red Lands, White Lies. | ||
| Red Lands. | ||
| Yes, Lands, I've got it. | ||
| Yeah, right. | ||
| White Lies. | ||
| Because they don't accept the history that's been written for them by the archaeologists in the universities who say, well, you came over from Siberia 20,000 years ago. | ||
| They don't accept that. | ||
| Now, and there's plenty of evidence to support what they say, which is why Vine DeLoria quoted extensively from the evidence that's presented in Forbidden Archaeology in his book. | ||
| We may have a few more rebels, but not that many. | ||
| We're carrying on the European tradition in a fine way over here. | ||
| First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Cremo. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
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Hi. | |
| Hello. | ||
|
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Where are you? | |
| This is Pat in Omaha. | ||
| Yes, sir? | ||
|
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Yeah, I'd like to two things. | |
| I'd like to point out that there is a major mystery in the Bible that supports the evidence your guest has compiled. | ||
| In the first chapter in Genesis, on the sixth day, God created man in his image, male and female, created he them. | ||
| But as far as Adam and Eve, they were created in the second chapter at some point after the first week of creation. | ||
| Approximately, the genealogy supports that was about 6,000 years ago. | ||
| And that's a mystery. | ||
| I think a lot of Christians try to incorporate the two. | ||
| So in the Bible, you're saying there was man created before old Adam and Eve came along. | ||
|
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Two separate creations. | |
| And of course, one day in God's world could be billions of years from the world. | ||
|
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The first week of creation, a lot of Christians want to believe was 6,000 years ago. | |
| But the evidence only takes five minutes to read the first two chapters. | ||
| You're absolutely right, Color. | ||
|
unidentified
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Michael, have you considered that? | |
| Well, yes, there's a I mean there's a whole pre-Adamite school of Christianity which talks about generations of humans before Adam. | ||
| And then in some theological works I've been reading recently. | ||
| Do they have civil discourses about that? | ||
| I think it's a bit controversial in those circles. | ||
| And then there's another point that I've read, and this again comes from a Christian theologian whose work I've been reading over recently. | ||
| He's been showing me some chapters of a book he's writing. | ||
| And he points out that the 6,000-year date is compiled by looking at different generations. | ||
| So-and-so begot so-and-so. | ||
| But he points out that in some places in the Bible it says so-and-so begot so-and-so, but in other places it shows that there are many generations between so-and-so and so-and-so. | ||
| So there may not be a... | ||
| So somewhere along the line there was some forgotten... | ||
| There was some forgotten of the begotten. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So that's another... | ||
| These aren't things I've invented myself. | ||
| I'm just informing your listeners of debates that are going on among Christians about these things. | ||
| It's not that I'm trying to tear down some Christian orthodoxy. | ||
| I'm just reporting... | ||
| I've never heard such a word uttered. | ||
| Which word? | ||
| Well, begetting that was forgotten, that goes back so far as you're talking about. | ||
| I've never heard that. | ||
| Well, there are Christian creationists who accept a long age for the earth. | ||
| There are some. | ||
| All right, there are some. | ||
| Maybe we'll hear from one. | ||
| Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael Cremo. | ||
| Hello, where are you? | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi, this is Bill. | |
| I'm in Fort Smith, Arkansas. | ||
| Speaking to you on KWHN 1320. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
|
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Hey, Michael, I am fascinated by your research. | |
| I first came across your work in Strange Magazine. | ||
| I'm an artist, and I provide illustrations for Strange, and I've since gotten into illustrating for cryptozoologists Lauren Coleman and Carl Schucher. | ||
| Are you familiar with either of their work? | ||
| Not directly, no, and I've never seen Strange Magazine either. | ||
|
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Oh, well, they offer both your books. | |
| Oh, fantastic. | ||
|
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My question is, concerning that, first of all, I am a Christian and I am a young earth creationist. | |
| The fellow just before is what I would term a progressive creationist. | ||
| And that follows along the lines of the, oh, there's a teacher out there named Hugh Ross that teaches an old earth. | ||
| I, on the other hand, I illustrate for Kent Hovind. | ||
| Have you ever heard of Kent? | ||
| I've heard of both of them. | ||
| Yes, I think I was on a television show once with him. | ||
| Is he out of Florida? | ||
|
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Yes, he is, Pensacola. | |
| Yeah, I was on a television show with him. | ||
| I was on a Christian Creationist television show with him. | ||
| Oh, I bet they loved you. | ||
| Oh, actually, this host for this particular show, he said it was very interesting. | ||
| We got along quite well. | ||
| He said, you know, well, this evening, folks, we got Michael Cremo on. | ||
| He's not approaching this from the, you know, Christian perspective, but, you know, he's providing some evidence against Darwinism, so let's hear him out. | ||
| You know, so and Kent Hoper was also on the show. | ||
| Right? | ||
| So we had a good time. | ||
| Well, I can see how up to a certain point you would be glad-handing each other because you'd be serving each other's purpose. | ||
| But by the time you get past 6,000 years or whatever figure... | ||
| Some problems? | ||
| Some problems. | ||
|
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done an excellent job tonight interviewing Michael. | |
| My question before I forget to ask it is do you have I'm going to go out and order it tomorrow. | ||
| I'm behind on some of my books. | ||
| But do you have any evidence for the coexistence of man and dinosaurs? | ||
| Well, if you look in the book, you'll find that there's evidence for well, for example, we've got a report from a scientific journal called The Geologist published in 1862, which tells of an anatomically modern human skeleton found in Lara Rock 300 million years old, which would be before the time of the dinosaurs. | ||
| And then there are numerous discoveries of human artifacts and bones during the time of the dinosaurs. | ||
| Now, there is one famous case from the Puloxy River region of Texas near Glen Rose, Texas, where you have reportedly some human footprints in the exact same layers as dinosaur footprints. | ||
| Now, I didn't put those in Forbidden Archaeology for the following reason. | ||
| I think they were originally reported by a Christian creationist scientist, Henry Morris. | ||
| And later on, he withdrew his claims in a letter to Nature, a major scientific publication. | ||
| And he said, you know, on closer examination, he felt he had been mistaken, and he felt that those human footprints were really dinosaur footprints that had been eroded to look like human footprints. | ||
| Now, there are still researchers who are very much in favor of those being human footprints, and I've got an open mind about it, because I have no theoretical objection to human beings. | ||
| Michael, I've got to stop you because we're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| The one thing that would convince me is if the supposed human footprints were running. | ||
| Now, if you have dinosaur footprints and human footprints together, and the human had been running, I might be a believer. | ||
| Let's break here. | ||
|
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks. | |
| Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 12, 1999. | ||
| Come on, Dave. | ||
| Come let them free. | ||
| What the people need is a way to make them proud. | ||
| They go up and do it, you know how. | ||
| Gotta get them in. | ||
| I'll see you next time. | ||
| I'll see you next time. | ||
| Don't know when I've been so blue. | ||
| Don't know what come over you. | ||
| You've found someone and don't admit my brown eyes blue. | ||
| I'll be fine when you go. | ||
| I will cry all night long Say it is all you do I know that make my brown eyes blue. | ||
| Tell me no reason, tell me some lies. | ||
| Give me no reason, give me all the vibes. | ||
| Tell me you love me, I love you. | ||
| And don't let me cry, say anything, but don't say goodbye You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 12th, 1999. | ||
| Peter Gerston, reality infected with a virus. | ||
| Or how about this? | ||
| Do not adjust your mind. | ||
| Reality is malfunctioning. | ||
| Robert Anton Wilson. | ||
| Oh, isn't this fun to talk about? | ||
| Where did we come from? | ||
| Did somebody intervene? | ||
| What got us here? | ||
| Is there a big guy? | ||
|
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You know, all the big questions. | |
| Michael Cremo is here. | ||
| He'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
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He'll be right back. | |
| Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider. | ||
| You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price. | ||
| A package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app. | ||
| You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows. | ||
| That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy. | ||
| If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider. | ||
| Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up. | ||
| Looking for the truth? | ||
| You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George North. | ||
| In Indonesia, rice farmers got quite a surprise when they discovered that overnight, a large crop circle had mysteriously formed in one of their fields. | ||
| There has to be a reason, though, for the geometric patterns here. | ||
| But I don't think the point is to decipher them. | ||
| I think the point is to realize that there's other intelligence in the universe. | ||
| They're visiting us. | ||
|
unidentified
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We're not visiting them. | |
| So until they tell us who they are, it's a mystery. | ||
| Now we take you back to the night of May 12, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. | ||
| Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Once again, my guest, Michael Cremo. | ||
| Michael, welcome back. | ||
| You're going to make it. | ||
| I can see you're going to make it the whole way. | ||
| Oh, is it coming to the end now? | ||
| Well, we're in the last like 20 minutes or so. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Time flies when you're challenged intellectually, doesn't it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Stimulating. | ||
| First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Cremo. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello. | |
| Is this me? | ||
| Only you know that for certain, but it sounds like you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Yeah, I want to know if he's ever heard of the theory. | ||
| Well, first of all, does he know what happened at Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible, what God did to Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible? | ||
| God cursed him and gave him a mind of an animal and made hair roll over his body. | ||
| Is he familiar with that? | ||
| No, is that what happened to him? | ||
| Sounds like Bigfoot. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, yeah, he cursed him. | |
| And I've heard a couple of preachers say that millions of years ago that these Cro-Magnon, the sons of God, were cursed to the point of being that way. | ||
| Ape not. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, they were cursed like Nebuchadnezzar for some disobedience that they had done. | |
| Have you ever heard that? | ||
| Not exactly in that way, no. | ||
| That's very interesting. | ||
| Do you know some of the names of the preachers who preached like that? | ||
|
unidentified
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No, I don't. | |
| This is like maybe ten years ago. | ||
| But his theory was that when Lucifer made his fall, not only did he take one-third of the angels, but he also took a portion of the human beings that were on the earth at that time. | ||
| And they also followed him. | ||
| And by following him, they got cursed to the point of being ignorant cavemen. | ||
| And some of them got cursed, some of them did not follow him. | ||
| And they got taken off this earth and put in another galaxy. | ||
| And those were the genetically superior sons of God spoken about in Genesis 6. | ||
| Well, to me, it's a very interesting set of ideas. | ||
| And just in principle, it would go along with beliefs that I personally have. | ||
| I mean, just in the fact that you've got a God and then you've got creation of different kinds of human-like beings existing on this planet in different parts of the universe. | ||
| Those are all ideas that I find. | ||
| Well, there's sort of a common thread running through a lot of the great wisdom traditions that would say similar things. | ||
| Now, trying to demonstrate that scientifically is another question. | ||
| But yeah, just in principle, I don't have any objection to anything you just said. | ||
|
unidentified
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This is the first you've heard that theory? | |
| Put in those terms, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
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How does it ring with you? | |
| I mean, it makes more sense to me that millions of years ago there were beings that were cursed. | ||
| I mean, they started out as sons of God, and they were cursed to the point, a big, ignorant cavemen, which would hold true to the theory that there were intelligent beings millions of years ago, and there were also Cro-Magnon men accursed to being it. | ||
| That's what the evidence actually suggests to me, that I don't deny the existence of ape men. | ||
| I think the ape men were there, but the physical evidence tends to suggest that human beings like ourselves were coexisting with them. | ||
| So that would go along with the picture that you just painted. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| What about the sons of God in Genesis 6? | ||
| What's your take on that? | ||
| Do you believe that they were genetically superior Herculean-type men from other galaxies? | ||
| Well, I was reading a little bit recently about the whole question of giants. | ||
| And apparently there's some evidence that some of the early creations there by God, the sons of Seth and the Nephilim, were considered to be giants of some kind. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, they were, yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So I don't have any objection to that. | ||
| I think there's, I mean, there's reports, as we were mentioning earlier in the show, of humanoid skeletons of large size being found at different times in different places. | ||
| It's difficult to get your hands on those bones now, but the reports are there. | ||
| So I think the basic elements of what you say, I think, are reasonable. | ||
| I mean, proving it all to some skeptic is another question. | ||
| That's another question. | ||
| But for various reasons, I'm kind of inclined to accept the basic ideas that you've laid out there. | ||
|
unidentified
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It's more logical than what we've been taught. | |
| In the school systems, yeah. | ||
| See, and one thing that I don't object to somebody being a Darwinist. | ||
| I don't object to somebody pursuing that line of research. | ||
| What I do object to is them having a government-imposed monopoly on objection if somebody wants to be a Darwinist, | ||
| but I don't think they should insist on having I mean just like we have separation of church and state, we might have separation of science and state as well. | ||
| You know so you don't have one particular groups based on everybody else. | ||
| We supposedly have separation of church and state, but we really don't. | ||
| Well, I was just saying that. | ||
| And we don't have separation of science and state either. | ||
| In fact, they're about equally connected, frankly, and they support each other in mainstream. | ||
| Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael and Art. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi, Michael. | |
| Hi, Art. | ||
| This is Lynn from Homer. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
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Alaska? | |
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, it was interesting, you just mentioned the Nethlans. | ||
| In the Sumerian records, they talk about them and mining gold in the southern tip of Africa. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
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And actually finding human remains that date back to 20,000 or so years ago. | |
| And so if they were mining gold back, way back then, and we don't really find, you know, it's a soft metal and they weren't any artifacts found that old in gold. | ||
| So what were they doing mining gold there? | ||
| There aren't any artifacts that old? | ||
|
unidentified
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Is that what you said? | |
| Well, it isn't found very often of ancient artifacts. | ||
| Well, I think there are some examples. | ||
| For example, there's a case of a woman in Morrisonville, Illinois. | ||
| This is reported in a newspaper article from the Morrisonville Times, 1892. | ||
| It tells of a woman who broke open a piece of coal as she was putting it into a coal-burning stove, and inside she found a gold chain 10 inches long. | ||
| Now, that coal came from a particular mine in Illinois, and we got in touch with the State Geological Survey of Illinois, and they said, well, the coal in that mine is about 300 million years old. | ||
| And there are other reports of gold objects being found. | ||
| So I think there are some reports, but go ahead with your point. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I guess from some of the research and reading that I've read that the Nephilim, we're a large race of people, large giants, giant people. | |
| That's generally what I hear. | ||
|
unidentified
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And supposedly, the whole reason why we are, the human race was manufactured, maybe DNA spliced, to mine those gold mines. | |
| All right. | ||
| We're talking sitchin now, of course. | ||
| And, you know, it is interesting that you would have mentioned gold, because I know that you know exactly what sitchin says. | ||
| And why don't you go ahead and comment on how sitchin figures in or doesn't figure in to what you believe might be true, Michael? | ||
| Well, as far as I can understand, his basic position appears to be this, that life evolved on Earth pretty much, as orthodox science says, up to the point of the eight-man Homo erectus. | ||
| And then intervention. | ||
| And then there was some intervention. | ||
| This would have taken place 300,000 or 400,000 years ago, I guess, according to his timeline. | ||
| And then that would have been the first time that you would have had anatomically modern humans around. | ||
| Now, just from a couple of standpoints, and of course he's operating mainly on the basis of the Sumerian text. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Now, I'm operating, there are two reasons why I would differ with him on the details there. | ||
| The first is, you know, I'm operating more on the Vedic text, the Sanskrit texts from India. | ||
| And those histories talk about a human presence going back much further than 400,000 years. | ||
| They talk about a human presence going back hundreds of millions of years. | ||
| So just from that standpoint, well, I'd probably be inclined to differ with his account. | ||
| But also, when I did this eight years of research into the history of archaeology, I did turn up these hundreds of cases in the scientific literature, which are not very well known. | ||
| They're certainly not in the current textbooks. | ||
| They're very elusive reports, very difficult to get. | ||
| They're in many different languages, Italian, French, Spanish, and out-of-print journals, out-of-print books. | ||
| But when I got all that material together, I saw that over the past 150 years, archaeologists have reported huge amounts of evidence showing that human beings, like ourselves, have been present for hundreds of millions of years. | ||
| So for those two reasons, I guess I wouldn't be inclined to accept the details of his proposal. | ||
| Although I do accept, like him, that human beings have been around in a civilized form for longer than scientists now say. | ||
| I do also accept the fact that there have been extraterrestrial interventions in the process of the origin of life on this planet. | ||
| And I do accept the fact that there are, I think as he would also admit, that there are higher dimensions to the universe that you do have. | ||
| That there is something more than just the ordinary matter that we can see. | ||
| So on some principles, I think we would have some things in common, but on some of the details and some of the major points, we'd have differences. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| All right. | ||
| But you are willing to consider some of his proposition, at least with regard to the intervention. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I think there have been multiple interventions, and I think you have to look longer back along the timeline to really come up with a more complete picture. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| East of the Rockies, without a lot of time, you're on there with Michael Cremo. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I wanted to go back to the river in Texas and the human footprints with the dinosaur footprints. | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
| Have you visited that site? | ||
| I haven't, but I want to. | ||
| I don't know if I got to finish the point I was trying to make there, is that I was a little bit cautious about them because the original Christian scientist who reported them withdrew his claims. | ||
| But I know that other researchers like Carl Baugh and others are still maintaining they are genuine human footprints. | ||
| And I have no theoretical reason to oppose the existence of human beings there. | ||
| But I just wanted to see more evidence. | ||
| And I would like. | ||
| I haven't visited the site myself. | ||
| I'm aware that there are many who do continue to accept them as genuine footprints. | ||
| And I'm ready to be convinced about it if they really are. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| When I was in high school, I attended a parochial high school, and my science teacher was a Christian scientist. | ||
| And he showed to our class that film that showed the site and the interview and the footprints and so on. | ||
| Right, I've seen that film. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| And, you know, I can't see how he could go back on his word, you know, but to me, from what I saw in the film, it looked, you know, fully, you know, the way he first explained it. | ||
| And then our teacher also would organize a trip into the Grand Canyon. | ||
| And in the layers of the rock of the Grand Canyon, and I can't tell you, because I didn't get to go on the trip, but he took a group of students every year, every summer, and they'd hike down into the Grand Canyon and back up the other side. | ||
| There was a layer of rock that had pollen in it from a tree that wasn't, you know, that the rock, the layer had been dated, you know, I don't remember, but it was much earlier. | ||
| Yeah, I understand the point that you're making there. | ||
| In other words, there's a similar case from the Salt Range Mountains in Pakistan where you had some scientists with the Indian Geological Survey find pollen from flowering plants in layers of rock that date to the geological period called the Cambrian, the early part of it, over 500 million years old. | ||
| According to the standard accounts, the flowering plants didn't come into existence until about 100 million years ago. | ||
| So to find them back in those times is extraordinary. | ||
| And I have heard also That similar things have been found in the Grand Canyon. | ||
| So I think there are lots of anomalies. | ||
| Of course, there are millions of species on this planet. | ||
| And I chose to look at the human species because I can't investigate all the millions of species myself. | ||
| The reason I chose the human species to look into is because scientists say it's their best case for evolution. | ||
| So I thought, well, I'll look at your best case. | ||
| And their best case didn't stand up. | ||
| Now, I think what you're saying may indicate, well, the story we get about some of the other life forms may not be correct either. | ||
| And it's a point well made, but unfortunately, we are out of time. | ||
| We have done the program. | ||
| Michael, your book, your latest book, is available generally in bookstores across the U.S. That's right. | ||
| It's called The Hidden History of the Human Race. | ||
| It's in bookstores. | ||
| I've also got a website at mcramo.com, M-C-R-E-M-O. | ||
| And just for some of your listeners who may be members of your chat clubs, I'm going to be in Santa Cruz, San Diego, and Orange County soon to visit at those chat clubs. | ||
| But the details are on that website if they want to check that out. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, it has been another really, really, really fascinating intellectual evening. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And I'm You're the guy who did it. | ||
| Michael, thank you so much. | ||
| Okay, thank you, Art. | ||
| You have a good night. | ||
| That's Michael Cremo. | ||
| And you've got to admit that you just simply cannot sit down and actually pay attention to a few minutes of this without being seriously challenged in a lot of really, well, ways that are frankly good for you, whether or not you believe what he believes. | ||
| Anyway, that's it for this night. | ||
| Tomorrow night, we're going to do Y2K and more. | ||
| And next week, my, what a lineup I've got for you. |
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