Art Bell and Brad Steiger explore the Miami Circle—a disputed Arizona site claimed to predate Native Americans by Richard Hoagland—while dissecting 13 unexplained horse deaths in Ash Fork since August 1998, linked to botulism or viral outbreaks like herpes myelitis. Steiger’s The Source ties together UFOs, cattle mutilations, and reincarnation theories, including a 1963 Mount Fuji photo of a Christ-like figure and a ghostly hand analyzed as an angel’s palm. Callers debate Y2K complacency, suppressed Peruvian humanoid skulls, and lucid dreaming as past-life recall tools, while Bell and Steiger warn about moral decline amid occultism and digital access. Ultimately, the episode blurs science and spirituality, questioning whether hidden forces—divine or otherwise—shape reality beyond conventional understanding. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, wherever you may be across all these many time zones, stretching commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Good morning there in St. Thomas.
South into South America, north all the way to the pole worldwide on the internet.
Thanks to broadcast.com.
Thank youbroadcast.com.
And of course, now approaching 15 billion light years out, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Well, again tonight, a lot to do.
Oh, do we have a lot to do?
There is a situation in Ashport, Arizona, that we spoke with Linda Molten Howe about last time she was on.
I think it was this last Sunday's Dreamland.
And she's got some information on what's going on there.
So we're going to hear about that.
I would like to update everybody quickly on the Miami-Dade County Commissioner meeting that's going to occur tomorrow.
It is a critical commission meeting with regard to the fate of the circle, the Miami Circle, whatever it is.
And what we need is time to find out what it is, of course.
We know it's ancient.
How ancient, we're not sure yet.
Richard Hoagland sent me facts earlier and said, look, we have, we believe, proof, absolute proof, that it is not recent Native American, but rather far more ancient.
Of course, that's Richard, but he thinks he's got it nailed.
Whatever it is, it is a sacred site, and it's about to be turned into concrete if we don't do something.
So what you need to do is go to my website, and at the very top of the list there, it says Miami-Dade County Commissioner meeting tomorrow.
It's a critical, just a really critical meeting.
And they need seven people there to have a quorum to make a decision.
So what we're asking you to do is to simply go to this link.
And when you do, you'll get the names and the facts numbers of all the Dade County commissioners.
And if you would be so kind as to fax them and say that it would distinctly please you if they would bother to attend the meeting, because it's an important meeting, not just for those people in Dade County, but for people across America that don't want to see something that may be ancient and important turned into a parking lot.
So on my website, the link, the names, the numbers, anybody willing to help will now get busy.
And we'll be sure we get a quorum there later today, actually Miami time.
So a decision can be rendered.
Without a quorum, of course, they can't really do anything, no matter how they feel.
So any help you can give would be very much appreciated.
That's from Richard and the group.
In a moment, Linda Malton Howe, and then in the next hour, it'll be Brad Steiger.
So folks, we've got quite a program this night.
We've got a big announcement with regard to Brad and myself.
Prepare yourselves for that's right.
Stay tuned.
Following the the following piece, but the fees piece that is to follow by Linda Malta.
How for an announcement of something that occurred today here, of uh...
And I think the nature of it is going to surprise you.
Linda Moulton Howe is an investigator.
She's a scientist.
She's an environmental reporter who has won many awards for her documentary.
She looks in all kinds of things for us.
And it's such a weird world today that every time she looks into something for us, I've got one or two more things for her to start on as soon as she's got the word on whatever we're working on.
And that's kind of the way it's been going.
From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, here is Linda Moulton Howe.
They were all similar but different because Muffy walked around with leg tremors for like two weeks, you know, and they kept telling me she's slaughting off the toxin.
So then December comes around and it's the Tuesday before Christmas and my Philly, her, the mare that went down that was pregnant with the leg tremors, Muffy.
This was her 18-month-old foal, started trembling in the front end, and she was in the pen with a three-year-old mare.
So we watched her, and she went down, was paralyzed, couldn't move, and she stayed like that that whole week until Saturday morning when my husband and his friends could get her loaded into the trailer and take her down to the diagnosics lab down in Tucson at the university there, where, of course, they were going to put her to sleep.
I've lost between $25,000 and $40,000 worth of animals.
I owe $2,000 in veterinarian bills diagnostic lab results, and also I owe $350 to the Gilbert in the equine animal surgical unit there.
Not only do I owe $2,000 in veterinarian bills or lab tests or whatever you may call it, my loss financially, plus I had to turn away eight breedings to my stallion, which he's 19 years old.
He's a foundation blood quarter horse.
He is like a fantastic animal, and to turn away eight breedings at $450 a month plus $5 a day mare care is you're looking in the thousands again that I'm losing.
Not only the emotional attachment and my daughter's horse that, you know, we broke and trained and she was roping on it and everything else.
I mean, and the horse was only five years old.
The lab could not determine a diagnosis, and tests on the hay feed and water for toxins were also negative.
Five horses gone in six months, no insurance, and nothing certain about what was wrong.
Then on Christmas morning, neighboring ranchers Heidi and Larky Baker's 17-year-old mare could not stand up or eat her food.
Two days later, on December 27th, their three-year-old stud colt had the same symptoms, tight jaw muscles, couldn't chew, and went to the ground unable to get up.
The bakers knew that Sue and Harley Cox had paid for veterinarian and lab analysis on their five dead horses without a clear diagnosis of what was wrong.
The bakers also knew that at least four other horses and a mule had suffered paralysis and died.
So they decided not to waste money and shot the mare and colt to put them out of their misery.
The bakers prayed their last surviving horse, a four-year-old Mustang mare, would stay well.
But after their stud colt died December 27th, Heidi Baker knew her mare was sick too.
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27th, I noticed that my mare, her name's Dioji, I noticed that Dioji had a sore throat because she was not drinking, she was not eating, and when she did try to drink, she could not swallow.
So I gave her a whole bunch of throat lozenges, you know, because they like candy, and to see what would happen.
That whole day, she was very lethargic, you know, just lipping at food.
Larky Baker estimated that the region where the horses have been ill in Ash Fork is only about two and a half miles long and a half mile wide.
A common denominator are hundreds of crows everywhere, and ranchers haul water in trucks to open cisterns where chlorine tablets are added.
Humans and horses and crows drink the same water.
So far, water analyses have not turned up any suspicious pathogen or poison, but the U.S. Department of Agriculture did find something that could be the source of botulism C.
I talked to Lloyd Brown, Public Information Officer for Arizona's Department of Agriculture in Phoenix.
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We were investigating the dumping of some animals nearby there.
Birds are known to be carriers of botulism toxins and spores.
So if you have birds feeding on a rotting carcass and it's a dry year and those birds are flying over to water buckets and getting a drink and you know so there's a little bit more to this investigation that kind of also is being considered.
All the crows in Ashfork could be eating exposed dead animals and their droppings ended up in the horse's water and food.
It's not certain.
On February 3rd and 4th, a team of USDA veterinarians and pathologists joined Arizona State veterinarians to collect bird droppings, soil, plants, and water at the Cox and Baker farms.
The team also collected blood from the three remaining Cox horses that are alive to study.
Then on Friday, February 5th, the Arizona Department of Agriculture released a news update to the media that in part stated, quote, laboratory analysis found botulism type C spores in gut samples collected from a horse that died in November 1998.
Combined with the clinical symptoms exhibited by the sick animals, the finding of spores seemed to support earlier assumptions that the cause of the deaths probably is isolated to the Ash Fork area and probably is not spread by horse-to-horse contact.
Meanwhile, the joint diagnostic team comprised of experts from a series of institutions that are listed in this release, and they say livestock owners should contact the Arizona Department of Agriculture Office of the state veterinarian at area code 602-542-4293.
It's true, and this is so important because if livestock owners are anywhere experiencing any of the symptoms they're hearing tonight on the program so far in the veterinarian yet to come, this is the number in Arizona to call.
Again, the Arizona Department of Agriculture Office of the State Veterinarian is Area Code 6025424293.
And this is for assistance gathering samples if you believe that an animal is displaying botulism type symptoms.
Now the press release says botulism symptoms include muscle tremors and weakness, difficulty swallowing, the tongue may hang out, and eventual paralysis of respiratory muscles causing death within 24 to 72 hours.
Steps to reduce exposure to botulism include making sure all dead animals are always buried or disposed of properly since decomposing flesh is known to contribute to the formation of botulism type C toxin.
Also, since birds may be involved in the dissemination of the botulism toxin, horse owners should minimize the attraction of birds to animal areas, thus cover hay piles and grain and regularly change water and clean water containers.
The press release also pointed out there is no botulism type C vaccine approved for horses.
The lab where the botulism C spores were identified in the gut tissue of Sue Cox's horse was the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine.
There, Dr. Robert Whitlock, Associate Professor of Veterinary Medicine, is considered one of the country's leading experts on botulism, especially botulism C.
I asked Dr. Whitlock to describe typical symptoms and art.
If we have to interrupt this interview, we can take it across the bottom of the hour.
It's very important to hear from this man who is such an expert in this very difficult, complex disease that especially affects horses.
Now, Dr. Whitlock.
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Typical clinical signs of botulism in adult horses are a bit variable, but are characterized essentially by muscle weakness.
This can be manifested in a variety of ways.
Foals, for example, have a decreased responsiveness to nurse the mare, or when they try to nurse the mare, milk may fall out of the side of the lips.
And from the onset of a botulism taking over a horse, what is the typical length of them being sick before they die?
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The onset of clinical, the progression of clinical signs of botulism in horses ranges enormously from as short as a few hours to over several days to two or three weeks, and some horses may actually recover from botulism without treatment.
Now, in the Arizona case, I think part of the confusion has been in the ranchers that I've talked to there, they were rejecting botulism as an explanation because in a few of the cases, the horses they said had been alive for some period of time, days or weeks, presenting signs of weakness or trembling of muscles, but not dying within three or four days.
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The botulism as a disease is toxin dose dependent.
And it only makes sense that the more toxin that a horse will, or any animal for that matter, can ingest, and the more that they absorb from the GI tract, the more rapid the progression of clinical signs.
If it's a massive dose of toxin, horses can ingest it and be dead within 12 hours and never be seen to be abnormal by the owner.
But that's extremely unusual.
Most horses do progress over a period of three to five days, gradually becoming more weak, recumbent.
Most horses show some evidence of inability to eat normally or swallow normally.
Okay, before the break, I had asked Dr. Whitlock from the onset of botulism taking over a horse, what is the typical length of them being sick before they die?
And he was stressing that it is a disease that is dependent upon the dose, the strength of the dose of the toxin.
What has the horse ingested?
And the botulism must be ingested.
You cannot pass botulism C from horse to horse.
It has to be what they take into their body.
And with that as background, Dr. Whitlock, University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, continues.
A lot of cases will get up and down for a few days and depends upon continued absorption of toxin from the gut or how much they absorb and begin with as to whether or not they will recover or go ahead and die.
Is it true that birds can pick away at dead carcasses, take in the botulism spore into the birds, and then transfer it around the countryside in air droppings, infecting horses without the birds themselves dying?
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That is suspected to occur and not been proven to occur, but that is a plausible explanation because this outbreak, there are different types of botism, strains, if you will, type A, B, C, D, E, F, and G.
And this is type C. Type C botoism is most often associated, or nearly always associated, with carrion or dead animals.
And then the toxin is produced in the dead animal.
The horse has access to that, or the animal or person or whatever, but it's usually the dead animal.
Whereas type A bottom, type B botosome are both considered to be soil contaminants that get into the forage, and then the forage is not preserved correctly, and then the bottom spores form toxin in the forage.
But this is type C, so it's probably from carrion.
So you have talked with some of the veterinarians in Arizona.
And in terms of the description of symptoms as they've described to you, what has been your overall impression?
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Overall impression, it's possible.
Some of them seem compatible with botulism, but some of them finds that were described were not.
And I guess what I'm wondering is, is it possible that all these 13 horses may not have the same problem?
Some of them are good at botulism, some of them not.
I think each horse needs to be evaluated by itself and look at the progression of events and so on like that.
For example, one or two of the cases that another veterinarian talked about were dog-sitting and getting up and down repeatedly.
Well, dog-sitting position is not typical of botulism.
I'm not saying it doesn't occur, but it's very, very uncommon.
And if they were repeated dog-sitting and repeatedly getting up and down over a period of five to seven days, I would say they believe that that is highly unlikely to be botulism.
And they took three more vials of blood from the three surviving horses on the Susan and Harley Cox ranch last two or three days ago, and they're going to be doing some more comparative testing with samples that were taken from the dead horse.
They are trying to rule out more and see if they come up with anything else that may be more definitive.
But as Dr. Whitlock stressed with me, trying to be definitive when it's very difficult to find botulin toxin, even in a horse that has died, is sometimes difficult to prove this.
So we are in one of those areas where the clinical symptoms of many of the horses, as you heard Heidi Baker and Sue Cox describe, fit many of the symptoms of botulism C, but there are some others that don't, some other symptoms.
And he was just bringing up this odd behavior of some of the horses in what's called the dog sitting position that's associated with this other disease, herpes myelitis.
And it's not clear yet if that's been tested for.
The labs are still working on this.
And Mr. Brown at the U.S. Department of Agriculture stressed that they want to continue to do research on this.
And so far, right now, as of February, there have been no new cases that we know of yet.
Well, they found the botulism spore in two places in the gut of one of Sue Cox's horses in November.
So that part, that one horse, that's pretty definitive.
It's the question, was the same kind of syndrome involving the other horses, and was it related to the spread of botulism C from the USDA did find this pit where some dead animals had been being laid.
Not the horses, but other kinds of carrion had been being laid and not covered.
And they did not get that pit casually laid out there with dead animals in it covered until the end of January.
And for that to have occurred, that might have set up the syndrome for this kind of contamination in a community that was unaware that that animal pit was there.
For people in the audience who want to contact me on this story or any other unusual phenomena or environmental problems in this earth, please fax me at Area Code 215-491-9842.
That's area code 215-491-9842 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
How does dumping guns onto the market make you responsible for somebody who murders somebody else?
This is a very chilling ruling.
Very, very chilling.
So that sums up the news, such as it is.
I've got so much for you and so little time to give it to you.
And today here in the Valley, something, do any of you remember the, I'm not sure how to approach this properly with you.
Do you remember the show we did with William Thomas on Contrails?
Well, fortunately, I've scheduled William Thomas to come back next week.
And let me tell you why I say fortunately for me three separate times today.
I'm not sure how to present this to you without really sounding like a crackpot, but that won't surprise a lot of you who probably think I am anyway.
So who cares?
I want to just tell you what I saw, what's usual and what was unusual.
Usual here in the Prump Valley is for jets at high altitude, you know, to be either headed toward Las Vegas, mainly east-west routes we see here, occasional north-south, but mostly east-west.
Generally, San Francisco-bound flights, for example, will be seen flying from the east over us toward the west, toward San Francisco, cutting to the north and west.
That's typical.
We can see the path to the south toward Los Angeles, and you can see contrails occasionally there.
And I've been looking at jets traverse my little valley now for better than a decade.
You know, they just do it.
They come, they go.
Today, three separate times, folks, jets, big ones, at altitude, and when I say at altitude, I'm talking about cruising altitude, probably 33,000 feet or better.
Three times today, jets came into the Perump Valley, or above it, I should say, and cut a very tight 360-degree turn, and then kept on trucking in the direction they were headed.
Now, there's simply no reason whatsoever for a jet outbound from Las Vegas to go into any sort of pattern, much less a 360-degree turn over the Las Vegas Valley, Perump Valley.
Now, you could imagine they might do that in Las Vegas, where they might get stacked up for traffic or something, but not here.
Moreover, these contrails were extremely unusual.
They looked like the kind of contrail you would see from a ramjet engine.
And by that I mean sort of smoke rings.
The contrails formed into O-rings.
And then they spread and joined and formed into a bank of cloudiness, I will call it.
Now that occurred not once, but three times today.
One, two, three times today.
I am not given to nasal problems.
I've always been pretty clear all my life.
I've had several sneezing fits today.
And when I say fits, I mean to where for three or four minutes or five minutes, I literally couldn't stop sneezing.
Then in my sleep, I was awakened by a sneezing fit.
I mean, it just went on for five minutes.
I'm not subject to respiratory difficulty, never have been all my life.
And my wife, who is subject to respiratory difficulty, she has asthma, is having an attack of asthma today.
So, you know, I'm not exactly sure how you approach the subject that I'm obviously talking about without sounding like a crackpot.
But I'm glad I've got William Thomas coming back on next week.
Oh, and one more thing.
I went out and took photographs of these very, very, very odd contrails.
I took photographs of them.
And with any luck at all, we'll have them back tomorrow.
They're going to be developed tomorrow, and I'm going to get them up on the web.
I want you to see them for three separate at-altitude commercial size aircraft.
I didn't say commercial because I had no way of knowing.
They're too far up.
Large aircraft, military or civilian, to come across our valley and literally do a tight 360-degree turn and then continue on in their direction westward, in this case, north of west towards San Francisco, is completely bizarre.
To see these kind of contrails is completely bizarre.
So William Thomas will be here next week, Thursday night, Friday morning.
We moved him because we've got Gary.
In fact, let me tell you what we've got coming up.
In a moment, of course, Brad Steiger, and we've got a surprise for you, followed by Sylvia Brown on Friday night, Saturday.
And then Monday night, Tuesday, next week, Albert Taylor, followed on Tuesday by Wayne Green.
I've got a lot of ham radio news for you.
And then Wednesday night, Thursday morning, Gordon Michael Scallion will be here.
And oh boy, does he have news for you?
And then Thursday night, Friday, William Thomas, followed Friday night, Saturday by Dr. Gary North and Y2K.
And by the way, very quickly on Y2K, from the Fresno newspaper, they interviewed one, two, three, four people, you know, with their pictures about what they think about Y2K.
And I won't read the people's names.
This young lady on the left says, quote, I don't know about it.
I'm too busy working.
I don't have time to read the paper.
That was her response.
The next fellow said, quote, about Y2K, I found out they already solved that.
I heard they're going to start over back to 0-0.
I'm not concerned about it.
End quote.
And then somebody with an unusual hairdo says, my family is, meaning concerned.
They think like we're going to starve, but I think they're idiots.
And then our final survey person, a young lady, looks to be in her early 20s, says, the country is way too commercial.
I think if we crash, it's cool.
So what do we have here?
Four people surveyed by the Fresno newspaper.
All of them saying, essentially, don't worry, be happy.
Or anybody who thinks about something like that, computer problems, crashes, they've got to be crazy.
So if that's the attitude, that's the attitude of people.
All I can say is this.
Before they sue the gun manufacturers out of existence, if you have prepared for Y2K, you had better prepare.
unidentified
If you follow me, prepare to prepare.
I'll say.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
The Mirror Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
Brad Steiger is a master of investigation into the paranormal.
Brad Steiger is my guest tonight.
Brad Steiger and Art Bell have a new book.
It's called The Source.
And it reflects our thinking, as we have done shows over the years now, and boy, it is over the years now, too, about all kinds of phenomena that we live with today.
And I say live with because it's all around us and more and more lately.
And it's sort of a compilation of a view on these various subjects by the two of us, adding up to what we believe to be the answer to just about all of it.
I think it's dynamic, it's not simplistic, it's comprehensive.
It's an overview of a lot of things you're going to hear talked about tonight, leading toward, for a change, some sort of explanation, at least involving the source.
I think I sent some copies of The Galleys to people.
How should I say this?
They're my harshest critics in one sense, but they always tell it to me straight.
And one man is a book reviewer for a major, major newspaper.
And he said he was totally fascinated by the book.
And he said, you know, I'm familiar with your work.
I've heard art.
And he says, it was so fascinating to see what you guys really think about the subject.
And he said the way we tied it together, he said the last chapter alone, he says, was worth the price of the book.
Of course, there again, as a reviewer, he didn't pay anything for it.
But my point being that I was so pleased that this guy, I mean, this guy reads books for a living.
He reads dozens of books a week, and that he was taken by it.
The other response I've been getting, which pleases me, and I know will please you, my friend, is people have said there's something new on every page.
This is the most information-packed book that they've read.
So, again, I don't mean to be self-serving in that sense, but I'm excited and I'm delighted that the book is getting that kind of response from professional reviewers and people who, like I said, these are people that if they didn't like the book, they wouldn't have hesitated one minute to tell you.
It covers Roswell, the government cover-up of Roswell, alien abductions, cattle mutilations, angels and demons, and we're going to talk of those tonight, too.
Boy, are we going to talk of those?
UFOs and other space anomalies.
It discusses in great detail Native American beliefs because we've had so much feedback from so many Native Americans.
All of these things that we have discussed and Brad and I have speculated before on the show about are discussed in some great detail in the book and then sort of woven together pointing toward a source for the whole thing.
Right, in discussing a book like this, is giving it away.
But I think, in all fairness, because, you know, I know neither one of us wants to be coy about it.
In all fairness, what we've done, in our opinion, is to say, as we have so often, people who have been listening to us in the past, is we've come at this from so many directions over the years.
And we always kind of end up kind of chuckling and saying yes, but couldn't an alien, couldn't that also be an angel?
And couldn't this?
And we come back to saying, well, couldn't it all be a single source that manifests itself in a way that the percipient, the witness of that manifestation, would best understand it and perhaps receive the most awareness and the most enlightenment from the experience.
So we're dealing a lot with the individual mystical experience, and we're tying that together and saying there is a source, a force, that's been shaping our entire species since our very beginning, our origins, and probably a little bit before.
And I really, really chuckled when I read some of the reviews on Amazon.com.
Now, some of the people that wrote reviews are obviously from my newsgroup, this news group, where they hate me and hate everybody that I talk to, whether it be Ed Dames or yourself or whoever.
Anyway, nobody's read the book, but we got anywhere from one star with crushing criticism.
Of course, they haven't read the book, but crushing criticism nevertheless.
To four stars and also five stars.
Some five stars, and they hadn't read the book either.
So it's interesting to me that people are able to simply sort of.
In other words, they have listened to me, they know me on the radio, and they know you, I guess, from the radio and from the million books you've written.
Right.
And so based on, I guess, their pre-prejudice, they write either a raving, wonderful review or they slam us.
But nobody yet has read the book except the people that you just alluded to.
And it's saying that we stole this from the Heaven's Gate people.
Now, it's interesting to me, of course, because, as you know, because we did a show on it, Aiden Hughes, Hayden Hughes, and I wrote the first study of Bo and Peep as we know them.
In 1975, when they called themselves the Human Individual Metamorphosis, H-I-M.
And I guess that's the way I will always think of them.
So I really don't know about the source being a sect.
And I would guess that when the Baptist minister down the street gives a sermon on the source of all blessings, he's probably not thinking about Heaven's Gate either.
You know, I've got to bring up a little bit of synchronicity, excuse me, about Heaven's Gate.
I don't even know if you know this, but you called me when this unfortunate, which I say so unfair with you and the Comet and so forth, just as minutes before I was going on with Ted Koppel.
Now, you remember that I didn't go there.
They brought, ABC brought this huge, huge trailer with the screen on top, the size of a sperm whale, and packed up outside of our house.
And I did it live from our living room with Ted Koppel, of course.
And just as I was about to go on, the phone rang, and they were just putting the microphone on.
I said, well, it's my friend Arbell, and you said that.
And I thought, talk about synchronicity.
And, of course, here again, I hadn't made the slightest connection because I know you.
Well, I just, because I don't know if you really realized when you called that night that I was just, you know, being hooked up to go on with Ted Koppel.
Well, I was going to fill you in on what was going on because it was a time of madness in Heaven's Gate.
At least personally for me, you know, you had one truck.
I had people surrounding my property, Brad.
I had news crews out there for, I don't know, it went on for, I don't know how long it went on for.
I've been through two of these sieges now, and they come out here and hang on my gate and lean over and peep, peep, peep inside, trying to figure out what's going on.
Whenever one of these big stories break, and there's going to be another one here pretty soon, my life seems full of them.
yes now what happened what do you tell couple basically Well, what I told Coppel is that interestingly, kind of what I said in your newsletter when that nice reporter asked for predictions.
With the millennium coming up, whatever that means to people, we're going to see more of these UFO cults.
I said that in Bow and Peep, they did not intend to do harm to anybody.
They were harmful, unfortunately, only to themselves.
I had found, and I was on with her sister, by the way, her, as we know, Bo and Doe and so forth.
And then she very much appreciated, you know, the kindness I extended and the sympathy to her and the situation because it simply was something that got out of hand.
It was their belief structure.
And one of the gentlemen who was not there but wanted to, he made contact, said that the book and the treatment we made of Heaven's Gate, he thought was fair.
And this man, eventually, just a few months ago, if I think you remember, he did in the Arizona desert, he did in his mind, you know, catch up with them or try to.
So I think, you see, we cannot be critical of small religious groups because one of the major church body, in fact, all of the major church bodies existing today, once started as very small little groups.
And we have to be open, but at the same time, there are certain things that we can look for in terms of some of the negative groups that demand complete obeisance and demand all you know.
so stand by an interesting synchronicity with regard to the book that we've written called the source that is available as of tonight
First time ever, and for a very short time, you, if you can get through.
And if you can't get through tonight, I know the lines are really jammed.
If you can't get through tonight, tomorrow, or the next day, it won't be that soon that I'll give up signing.
You'll get a dual autograph copy, Brad Steiger, and Art Bell.
But let me tell you something interesting about the source, and I think Brad probably will verify this.
As you all know, there have been some really horrendous events in my life that have been taking place that I've been going through.
And I, on the one hand, dread and on the other hand, pray for the day when I can tell you about them.
And that day will come and maybe sooner than later, actually.
But during the time that this book was under construction, it's like the locusts fell on me.
And they fell and fell and fell.
And really, the locusts fell on Brad at the same time.
it was a very very very unusual period of time in both of our lives would that be fair to say brad without very fair very fair with Without over-dramatizing at all.
I'm pretty much of a private person by nature, and I don't understand it.
I don't nervous.
I'm not comfortable with it.
I'm shy.
I guess I'm shy.
Here's a good example of what happens around here.
I'm going to read this to you.
It's a letter that my wife just handed me that just came in.
Dear Art, I respect your reclusive desires, and I do not want to breach any boundary issues.
I'm a devoted listener, and to be quite frank, I wanted to have my picture taken with your house in the distant background, kind of an Elvis Graceland kind of thing.
My plan was to rent a car next time I was in Vegas, do a little detective work in Perump, and voila, be done with the camera work before Lord of the Dance started.
First stop was at a Perrump mobile station that sold two cheeseburgers for $2.
Being from Wisconsin, cheeseburgers are one of our weaknesses.
The cook knew of you, but had no idea where you lived.
Our highly trained eye then noticed a lady walking out of a real estate office.
You know, we assumed she would know.
She told us, head north on Highway 160 until we get to old Highway 110 Bel Vista Road, then take a left.
And there would be your house on the right-hand side of the road about four miles down.
She said there was a fence around your property with a sign that said Art Bell property.
Okay, now we're cooking.
So we did as instructed after traveling about five miles west on Highway 110.
We noticed that signs of civilization seemed to be no longer present.
Phone poles, power lines, nothing.
Really rough country.
Maybe we took a wrong turn or misunderstood directions.
We drove back all the way to the real estate office, asked her to go over the directions.
Again, she did.
She indicated everything correctly, but we just hadn't gone far enough.
So, okay, off we go again.
This time, it wasn't our plan to visit California, but that's where this wild goose chase took us.
Then back to Perump we go.
By now, the real estate office is closed.
Time to change sources anyway.
Stopped at a convenience store, asked the lady if she knew where you lived.
She said she knew and was all too willing to give us directions.
All we had to do was head south, turn right on Homestead Road, and find Art Bell's house.
She also mentioned that a friend of hers worked on your pump and hasn't been seen since.
We never found Homestead Road.
We were late for the show.
I didn't get my nap.
My lady said that I was grumpy from the disappointment of not completing my quest.
And as to finding where you live, my curiosity has waned.
I wish I would have considered having my picture taken in front of your post office box.
Now, people are doing that, and it's like it is, and I just don't know how to handle it, Brad.
You know, like if anything happens at all, your entire property is surrounded by news crews, you know, with million times zoom cameras trying to get anything they can get.
I've been through that a few times now, and it's less than heaven.
All right, Brad, I want to begin talking about some of the things that we cover in our book.
But I want to discuss first the one that I've had up there for a couple of days.
This one is billed as a guardian angel.
And for those of you, I know a lot of you who don't have computers, I'll rely on Brad to back me up on this.
I'll read you what I got with the picture.
It says, Dear Art, this is the ghostly guardian angel picture.
From what we were able to find out, the vehicle in the picture was traveling across a bridge in Pauling, New York, where a deer ran in its path, causing the driver to attempt to avoid to hit it.
The driver lost control of the vehicle, and the resulting damage is incredible.
However, no one was injured or died in the crash.
Now, the photograph is of a car off barely off the center part of its lane toward the shoulder.
And near as I can see, this car is complete toast.
I mean, it is totaled.
There is nobody or nothing that should have walked away from this wreck.
Well, Sherry went out in this stretch between Arizona and California where the Phantom Hitchhiker, where a phantom hitchhiker is often seen, and snapped the picture.
And, you know, it's that same form and that same shape.
So, again, this is a very convincing manifestation.
Well, now, in this case, we have the names of the people who sent the photograph, and we called them.
And this photograph was rescued by Tara, the daughter of Kathy, from Highland, New York.
And it was rescued in the sense that a professional photographer took this, you know, somebody who would run from a newspaper, local newspaper, take a photograph, and then was going to be discarded.
And she picked it up and said, wow, look at this, and kept it for herself and then sent it to me.
He kept the photograph to himself, not knowing what to do with it.
Upon his release from the service, he gave it to our maternal grandfather, who kept it in an envelope, in a cigar box, with his personal and sentimental belongings for the rest of his life.
Upon his passing, the angel photograph was discovered there.
It's our hope that it serves to bring joy and a reminder that we are not alone, that miracles do indeed happen to everyone who sees it.
The photograph is the property and treasure of the Dennis family of Mammoth Lakes, California.
Now, what are angels, Brad, in your best estimation?
Are angels souls that were once mortal, or are angels, as others who would read the Bible would suggest, manifestations that never were human and are from God?
And of course, in The Source, you and I also threw in aliens into the mix because they can also be messengers.
So I think any time that we receive a non-physical blessing from a non-physical entity, I think we are justified if it is positive and has enriched our lives and brought awareness, a greater understanding, that we can call that entity an angel because that entity has performed an angelic deed for us.
Whether we're talking about the spirit of the deceased, whether we're talking about a separate creation of the Almighty, or whether we're talking about alien beings, and that can be multi-dimensional beings.
When we say alien, we should tell people we don't necessarily mean extraterrestrial when we talk.
We talk about extraterrestrials in the source, but when we say alien, we can also mean, as we do in the source, extra or multi-dimensional beings, non-physical beings, beings from other planes of reality, and art's favorite from the future.
Anybody not getting prepared for what may be coming is I can't get over these newspaper quotes, these people who are sort of don't worry, be happy, or it's solved, or what's Y2K?
What are you going to say, huh?
Back in a second to Brad Steiger, who perhaps by now has seen the photograph, the astounding photograph that I just put up on the website.
It is astounding.
I mean, it is a mind-blower.
I was talking to my board op in Oregon, and I had him go up and take a look, and he went, Oh, my God, I've got to print this out.
Perhaps an appropriate phrase.
I don't know.
unidentified
The source is a brand new book by Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
They say things like, this was our personal proof of survival.
Because here's a picture of, in one case, someone's sister who died when she was five years old.
No pictures were taken because this was an old tin type and the picture showed up.
I mean, I get pictures like that.
Pictures, I got the outstretched hand.
I managed, oh, a very circuitous route.
A policeman friend whose wife was a telephone operator heard on the party line about this ghost picture that was taken.
I managed to get a copy.
I told the people I'd protect their identity.
But it was the most incredible helping hand, a hand that had been literally, they'd seen it floating around in their house.
They managed finally to get a picture of it through really accidental.
I won't go into that now.
But what I did with that picture art, I blew it up so it was life size, and I sent it to a palmist in California who I really respected, her ability to read palms.
I didn't say, I mean, I made it sound like it was an ordinary situation.
I didn't say it was the hand of a ghost or the hand of whatever.
And she could read the lines because it was that clear.
And her, she sent me like a 12-page analysis, but the essence of it was whoever owned this hand, she said, was a very compassionate, a very benevolent individual, a being, a person, rather, who was asexual.
And the only thing that makes sense to me is reincarnation as a divine plan of giving people an opportunity to progress, to have had a soul experience for a particular reason, for a particular purpose.
It is the most just balancing of soul energy, in my opinion.
And of course, it is a worldwide belief.
We know when I get into arguments, and I never like to argue, but discuss with my evangelical friends.
I like to point out that it was at the Council of Nicaea, 323 A.D., that reincarnation only lost by three votes.
All right, then let's consider the little child that with her parents is instantly killed, the eight-month-old, who is instantly killed in a car wreck.
Tell me how that is explained by the concept of reincarnation, which, by the way, as you well know, I lean toward myself.
This would be an opportunity to have a lifetime which would be briefly passed for the sole purpose of undergoing a particular experience that then lent or developed and increased that person's soul growth and hastened then the movement toward the light and toward another possible incarnation.
Or perhaps this may have been that entity's last incarnation.
The person had lived a devout and holy life in the life before, and this time came back for only a brief time.
But see, that suggests that what we are living in when we are here, living out long lives, in the case that we have lots of karma to work out, and we're sort of in a semi-hellish place doing that.
You might say it's the equivalent of a long prison sentence versus release on own recognizance or something.
I said, and this was on Easter Sunday, maybe it was to Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts, I said it, that one could stand up, as it was, I said it on Easter morning, one could stand up in any Orthodox Christian church on Easter morning and say a great deal of their precepts, and everyone would agree.
Well, let me give you another really good parallel.
The Unibomber.
The Unibomber was a really horrid little guy who sent bombs to people, computer-type people, people who he viewed as ecologically unfriendly.
He sent them bombs in the mail.
And he wrote a manifesto.
And if you separate the Unibomber's deeds from his words in the manifesto, reading the manifesto, which I have, an awful lot of it rings absolutely true.
It was just his methods of getting the word out that lacked a bit of finesse.
I'm going to have to quote my minister wife, who says that we are living in a time of discernment.
We will have all of these half-truths and partial truths and truths that sound and seem to resound with great clarity, but we must pray for the discernment to discern what these people are really talking about.
When we must have the discipline to apply ourselves to have that discernment so that we don't gullibly accept the various others.
I pick all the music that I love selfishly and I don't play anything I don't like and I add to my collection slowly and I've done that slowly over the years songs that really mean something to me, and so then I try and pick.
Obviously, you know a moment will suggest a particular piece.
That's all simple, and since I do it I don't have an engineer, don't want one I can do it all myself and put it together that way.
So I guess we've covered angels, but I'm, I'm so fascinated with them.
There's one other little thing, during this last break Brad, this has now happened to me total of about three times since I've been on the air.
I have a speaker which is affixed to the desk in front of me which, on top of that speaker, has a camera which I use for my webcam right, and it all came crashing down during this last break.
At other times I've had my door crashed, I've had things happen to me and and inevitably Brad, it it scares the hell out of me.
Number one, and number two, it provokes me into thinking that, because I'm sitting here discussing the kinds of things that you and I are discussing right now, it's some kind of a stupid sign.
It's impossible for it to have done what it just did.
And yet it did it, and I spent all my last break trying to retrieve it from the floor and reset it.
An entire speaker and camera system went to the floor just for no reason whatsoever.
Maybe something, maybe nothing, I don't know.
I'm I'm, I'm really confused because Brad, I'm telling you I'm actually skeptical people don't think of me as skeptical because I allow ideas to be presented on the radio without a 60-minutes type interrogation of those who present the ideas.
So they then translate that to mean that I believe in everything that I am told, which is absolutely untrue.
Nevertheless, I'm beginning to find all of this a little challenging.
Now, all of this was held down by those Velcro strips.
I mean, there's no way it could have come loose, and yet it's like someone took a hand and slapped it all down.
I think that it is a mere consideration, an honest, legitimate intellectual consideration of these things that allows them in.
I swear, Brad, I do.
If you look at, for example, the Ouija board, to me, the Ouija board is A, pretty scary, but B, just a conduit is sort of like opening a door.
It's a conduit, and when you start using a Ouija board, you, not the board, are in a state of mind that allows whatever it is, good, bad, indifferent, to come through.
And each time we do a show, And I'm sure you do too.
But I'll get as many as six to eight hundred letters from just dear, wonderful people who say the kindest things, but many of them will describe a similar manifestation that occurred to them while they were listening to us.
You know, I just, I don't handle these things well, Brad.
I really don't.
You handle them much.
You've been in situations that you have described on this program, encounters with entities, that, Brad, if I had been you, I would have either wet my pants or I'd still be running now.
I mean, I don't handle these things very well.
I'm fascinated by them, but I don't handle them well when they happen to me.
Now, a safer, somewhat safer subject, the mysteries of where we all came from, of our human origins.
Down in Florida, in Miami right now, this developer is getting ready to concrete over this.
Well, as so often happens, these sites get destroyed or reburied under tons and tons of rock, so we can't.
And I'm not really a paranoid kind of person, but sometimes it seems as though there are those that don't want us to really understand the truth of our origins.
Now, in this case, I think it's mainly driven by $100 million project, which is being held up.
I mean, that's no small matter.
But I really do agree with you.
I think that the religious institutions of the world would have a great concern if there were a discovery which seemed to definitively suggest that it didn't all happen exactly as they have explained to us.
You know, the situation in Washington state at this time where first they argued, was this a trapper?
Was this a Native American?
And then it was determined that it was much older and that it was Caucasian.
Now, again, I felt somewhat vindicated because in my books for years I've been saying that there was a prior civilization, Caucasoid, on this continent.
Now, I, of course, and I think the situation there, because the Army Corps of Engineers just covered everything again under tons and tons and tons of rock and gravel to avoid having what they said a political incident.
Now, I've said before, and I've said to my Native American friends, because I have been adopted by the Seneca, I'm Wolf Clan Seneca, I'm married to a Swedish Chippewa, and our concern, we support many, many Native American charities.
The Native Americans will always be the Aboriginal people of record.
That's right.
So there is no threat to any government services or any position being threatened.
So I hope that that will never inhibit our learning the truth of who we are, what this continent was.
Like I said years ago in my book, Atlantis Rising, Atlantis may well have been a civilization on North America.
There are endless examples in that book of archaeological finds, Brad, that legit mainstream archaeologists have come upon, submitted, and because it doesn't fit into somebody's paradigm, whatever it is, the physical object that proves something, is actually put on a shelf where it gathers dust and is never considered because it challenges somebody's cherished little paradigm.
That if you cannot find an entire strata, if you cannot find a tire civilization to go with an out-of-place anomaly or artifact, and we must understand this, the sciences of archaeology, anthropology cannot give them credence.
And in a lot of cases, as Michael has said on this program, the archaeologists who have stood their ground, Brad, have been drummed out, haven't been able to get any grants, are suddenly pariahs.
I had a dear, dear, I've told you this before, I'm a frustrated amateur archaeologist, but I had a dear professional archaeologist friend who was so open and provided me with so much information.
And every time I would present him with an anomaly, he would top me of one that had been found in an Orthodox dig, but he couldn't say anything about.
And he met a very early and I thought kind of mysterious device.
And I mourn his passing because, you know, it's so wonderful to have someone who's working in the Orthodox sciences and yet has an open mind to explore, not to close things out, to admit that we do not know the truth of our origins.
I'm excited to see, as we include it in the source, that now, instead of just going through Ostropithecus and Croan Yan and Neanderthal and Homo havalus and so forth, now they're bold enough to finally admit that there may have been 20 pre-hominid species before we got Homo sapiens.
A movie like A Search for Fire, where it showed all these kind of hominid civilizations that everyone said, oh, poo-poo, there was only Neanderthal, there was only.
No, I mean, we may have had all kinds, and we, maybe because we had a bigger brain, or maybe we were lucky, or maybe we got some help from somewhere else, we are the species of choice.
I sort of headlined it as we came into the hour, but we have this incredible two-hour hellish experience from a young lady, a young girl, on her way home from voluntary church work, that kind of thing.
And then we have Dan, who goes not once, but several times to a really cool place.
And while there are some negative aspects of his life review, because he had a pretty negative life, he still goes to the light, the good place.
Anything I would say, of course, would only be my personal response.
I'll have to listen to Sarah's complete.
But, of course, from time to time, people do send me their reports.
That's one of the things on the questionnaire.
People write, you know, the near-death experience is covered, and people have sent me hundreds of them, thousands of them over the years.
And most of them are positive.
There are a few that do have the very frightening experience.
Again, I have to look on all these as teaching experiences and individual mystical experiences that reflect what the person is going through at the time or what the person needs to see, needs to be aware of at the time.
And that's my opinion after having written now, I guess, four books on out-of-body experience, near-death experiences, and receiving them from people from all walks of life and nearly every country.
I think, again, it's the individual mystical experience.
I don't think the near-death experience is the be-all and end-all.
I think it is the beginning of awareness.
I think it's probably the first step in awareness.
And in Danny's case, Daniel's case, I think it's definitely the prime motivator.
It was the accelerator.
It took this scoundrel's life and turned it around.
And even J. Michael Stevens says, look, if you can't afford to buy their stored food, then go out and do basics like get rice, get other things that you can store.
There are things, steps you can take your own, on your own.
And so if you can't afford to buy the fancy stored food, which is a nice way to go with 10-year shelf-life, then at least do the simple stuff just to get ready for a period of time of disruption.
I'd also like to thank my father, who lives in Nevada and has been an avid listener of yours for years and who introduced me to you, which is these days probably the best thing a parent could do to their child.
I'm 39 and he's quite older, but nonetheless, let me tell you what happened.
So when it came up, I tried to call in, but of course the lines were so busy.
At any rate, I said, well, what is the ordinary reincarnation span?
He said, well, what I found out in my experience was that it's generally, if you do not change cultures, it's generally two years these days.
If you change cultures, you actually hang out and acclimate, and it's about five years just to get up to speed through the complexity of what you have to learn and comply with.
Both are interesting, and I would like to cover both.
Now, first of all, with regard to the soul, for a long time, Brad, it was kind of like almost an urban legend that there had been a real honest to goodness medical study that documented loss of weight at the moment of death.
And I hunted Brad for years.
And finally, I said something on the air, and somebody, I'll be doggone if they didn't send me the study.
It was done in the late 1800s.
Can't do that kind of thing now.
And they were very careful.
It's well written up.
I could actually put it up on the website any moment now because I have it.
Keith has it.
And it documented a portion of an ounce of loss at the instant of death in every human studied and no loss whatsoever when animals passed away, which rubs against a little bit of the grain of what I personally believe about animals.
But nevertheless, I found it incredibly fascinating.
And here's a lady talking about a slight reduction during sleep.
Like I say, I've known Nick for many, many years, and he certainly does fine research.
He sent me the most astonishing collection of ghost photographs that he's taken.
It's just fabulous.
He's always been cooperative.
He's always been a good friend to me.
When we talk about past lives and time, again, studies will vary.
We did studies in the 60s, and the subjects we worked with there, we seem to find an average of 80 years, and then someone will say 200.
And I think these are very individual things, and one certainly cannot speak dogmatically.
But we're just, I mean, this is always the tip of the iceberg.
This is the challenge.
And the more people seriously and without an axe to grind and without belittling the works of others, and the more we contribute, the more we share, you know, the more we're going to learn.
And Carlos Olsus, of course, did some fabulous early research in it.
unidentified
Yes, and you know, one of the things that was brought out in there that apparently in their study, now I've had NDEs too, and so and what I saw in there, that is reading the book.
In fact, I had to do a lot of reading myself after they happened, you know, back there.
It wasn't much discussed, but there were choices between good and evil.
And in consequence of whether or not apparently people were good and evil depended on who came to get them and spirits, you know, as they departed this life.
And, you know, when Daniel was speaking last night of some of the savagery that he saw in consequence of our perhaps breakdown of society, and as you go to the book of Revelation and other things, it looks like, you know, Art's given pretty good advice when he encourages people to store and to prepare for.
But at the same time, do you think our society has a responsibility, perhaps, maybe of getting on top of some of the problems in our society?
I mean, surely we see our freedom slipping away as the Belarite slips down, the Aldous Huxley mindset, the porn, the occult, and of course now putting it on the internet and getting into the schools.
And as we were talking earlier, I don't know if you heard that portion, sir, but we were saying that this is part of what's falling away from us: that so many people have the confidence of our technology, our science, and these are wonderful things, but we felt as though maybe we really were gods.
Maybe we really were in complete control.
And what we're finding out now is, you know, just how puny we are.
We have the resources, we have the intellect, we have the spirit if we choose to use it, but accountability has to be a very large part of our responsibility to this planet and to each other.
You know, it's like a race, and I wonder, as we race down this path toward whatever is coming or coming back, whether we spiritually will rise to the occasion or the occasion will run over us as one would hit a ruck.
I only get that paper on the weekends, but if they don't buy that, then the San Andreas fault ought to be enough of a reason to stockpile a supply of food.
Well, one thing, I don't know if you were listening earlier, where we mentioned that now, and we have this in the book, the different hominid species that were coexistent with us.
And we describe in the book some incredible skulls which we ran across in Peru that were just mind-blowing because they are not ape.
They are we don't know what.
They are hominid, humanoid, whatever you want to say, but they aren't us.
And they have a just looking at it, the brain capacity would probably be twice ours.
unidentified
How much of that information do you think might have been suppressed?
Well, the incredible thing is, you see, we find these things in hidden little private museums, and they are, we said earlier, they are the artifacts of the damned because they are not recognized by conventional orthodox scientists because they don't fit into the paradigms with which they are accustomed to or pleased to deal with.
But there are so many of them are showing up now that they just can't ignore them any longer.
unidentified
Sure, yeah.
That's true because I've seen many, many instances of South America's good.
I just wanted to make a comment on the Millennium Bug and the worry that people have for the future in the coming millennia.
Yes.
I really believe that God's a really kind person and that there's a lot of good people in the world who are trying to correct a lot of the problems that we have in the world.
And I really believe that in the end, with God's help, their endeavors to make the world a better place to live in and to cure a lot of the problems that are here and a lot of problems we've created.
God will help them, these people, help their endeavors to make this world a better place to live in, a success.
And, you know, sure, sure, we're going to have problems, and we've always had problems as long as the earth has been around.
But we've always seemed to kick them in the end, and in the end, things have worked out.
Yes, but the only thing that worries me about yours is a fine attitude, commendable.
But I'm afraid that it's going to cause people to sit on their butts when they ought not do so.
That's the only thing that scares me about that.
unidentified
Well, I think you talking about problems and making people aware of things that are going on and programs that can reach internationally and reach a lot of ears will help people think about things that are wrong.
And if maybe they have a chance to do something about it, people like you and others who talked about things like that might make them aware of certain things.
And if they have it within their power to help things get better in whatever area, they have an ability to help in.
They might, because of people like you making them aware, so that it kind of encourages them.
It's why some people are chosen for this and not for that.
I have to come back again that these are individual learning experiences and that hauntings may manifest as teaching devices.
They may manifest as moving someone into an awareness.
I've been with police officers when a ghost has manifested, and that certainly changed that police officer's reality because he was a total disbeliever.
So I think these things, we don't know how and when.
We don't know the answers.
All we can do is try to be receptive, try to be open, and allow these experiences to occur, as I said earlier, with discernment so that we truly understand what is happening and not to be gullible for any level of deception.
So, we have a section on that in the book, as a matter of fact.
unidentified
Yeah, okay, I'm going to tell you how I do it.
Okay.
Now, I fall asleep listening to the radio, and I hear the radio in my sleep.
So, I picked at least one commercial that I hear sometimes, and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming.
And to test that, when I hear it, I stick my thumbs in my ears.
If I still hear the commercial, I know I'm dreaming because I know I'm not awake really physically, sticking my thumbs in my ears, blocking the sound.
And so, I use a VCR also can be useful for recording a radio talk show so that as you know, you hear that it later in the VCR, that the commercial, you know, you fall asleep hearing the earlier part of the recording using a VCR like a regular audio tape recorder, and you can fall asleep and hear the commercial from the VCR that recorded the radio show.
And it's easier that way because you already heard it when you recorded it earlier, so you're able to ignore it when you hear it again and get to sleep during the earlier play of the VCR, and then you hear the commercial later in the VCR.
Or if someone uses a Real Talk radio, which can get four hours from a one-hour cassette, then he already has me if he has it as a cue if he's using a Real Talk radio recording this talk show right now.
We've repeatedly, over the years, we've done shows together.
We keep asking ourselves and questioning if there could not be a single source of all phenomena that manifests itself differently depending upon the receptivity or the level of awareness of the percipient.