Art Bell - 19990211_Art-Bell-SIT-Brad-Steiger-The-Source
Aired: 1999-02-11
Duration: 02:35:50


=== Art Bell Somewhere in Time (04:28) ===

[00:00:23]  Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:00:26]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[00:00:31]  From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, wherever you may be across all these many time zones, stretching commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
[00:00:48]  Good morning there in St. Thomas.
[00:00:50]  South into South America, north all the way to the pole worldwide on the internet.
[00:00:56]  Thanks to broadcast.com.
[00:00:58]  Thank youbroadcast.com.
[00:01:00]  And of course, now approaching 15 billion light years out, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
[00:01:09]  Well, again tonight, a lot to do.
[00:01:12]  Oh, do we have a lot to do?
[00:01:15]  There is a situation in Ashport, Arizona, that we spoke with Linda Molten Howe about last time she was on.
[00:01:22]  I think it was this last Sunday's Dreamland.
[00:01:25]  And she's got some information on what's going on there.
[00:01:29]  So we're going to hear about that.
[00:01:30]  I would like to update everybody quickly on the Miami-Dade County Commissioner meeting that's going to occur tomorrow.
[00:01:39]  It is a critical commission meeting with regard to the fate of the circle, the Miami Circle, whatever it is.
[00:01:48]  And what we need is time to find out what it is, of course.
[00:01:51]  We know it's ancient.
[00:01:53]  How ancient, we're not sure yet.
[00:01:55]  Richard Hoagland sent me facts earlier and said, look, we have, we believe, proof, absolute proof, that it is not recent Native American, but rather far more ancient.
[00:02:10]  Of course, that's Richard, but he thinks he's got it nailed.
[00:02:13]  Whatever it is, it is a sacred site, and it's about to be turned into concrete if we don't do something.
[00:02:21]  So what you need to do is go to my website, and at the very top of the list there, it says Miami-Dade County Commissioner meeting tomorrow.
[00:02:30]  It's a critical, just a really critical meeting.
[00:02:34]  And they need seven people there to have a quorum to make a decision.
[00:02:40]  So what we're asking you to do is to simply go to this link.
[00:02:45]  And when you do, you'll get the names and the facts numbers of all the Dade County commissioners.
[00:02:53]  And if you would be so kind as to fax them and say that it would distinctly please you if they would bother to attend the meeting, because it's an important meeting, not just for those people in Dade County, but for people across America that don't want to see something that may be ancient and important turned into a parking lot.
[00:03:20]  So on my website, the link, the names, the numbers, anybody willing to help will now get busy.
[00:03:30]  And we'll be sure we get a quorum there later today, actually Miami time.
[00:03:36]  So a decision can be rendered.
[00:03:39]  Without a quorum, of course, they can't really do anything, no matter how they feel.
[00:03:46]  So any help you can give would be very much appreciated.
[00:03:49]  That's from Richard and the group.
[00:03:52]  In a moment, Linda Malton Howe, and then in the next hour, it'll be Brad Steiger.
[00:03:57]  So folks, we've got quite a program this night.
[00:04:00]  We've got a big announcement with regard to Brad and myself.
[00:04:05]  Prepare yourselves for that's right.
[00:04:27]  Stay tuned.
[00:04:28]  Following the the following piece, but the fees piece that is to follow by Linda Malta.
[00:04:34]  How for an announcement of something that occurred today here, of uh...

=== Botulism Mystery in Horses (15:30) ===

[00:04:40]  some great concern to me.
[00:04:42]  And I think the nature of it is going to surprise you.
[00:04:45]  Linda Moulton Howe is an investigator.
[00:04:49]  She's a scientist.
[00:04:52]  She's an environmental reporter who has won many awards for her documentary.
[00:04:56]  She looks in all kinds of things for us.
[00:04:59]  And it's such a weird world today that every time she looks into something for us, I've got one or two more things for her to start on as soon as she's got the word on whatever we're working on.
[00:05:12]  And that's kind of the way it's been going.
[00:05:14]  From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, here is Linda Moulton Howe.
[00:05:18]  Hi, Linda.
[00:05:18]  Hi, Art.
[00:05:19]  Well, over the past six months, since August 1998, 13 horses and a mule have died in Ash Fork, Arizona.
[00:05:28]  Ash Fork is a farm community about a mile above sea level west of Flagstaff in the Prescott National Forest region.
[00:05:35]  On August 1st, a gelding on the Susan and Harley Cox ranch became weak.
[00:05:41]  Other symptoms included his tongue hanging out, sweating, having a hard time moving or standing up, and eventually he went into seizures.
[00:05:50]  So the Coxes had him put to sleep.
[00:05:52]  Then in November, three more horses weakened, heads drooping, tongues hanging out, sweating, unable to get up, and also had to be put to sleep.
[00:06:02]  The remaining four horses seemed okay.
[00:06:06]  But here is Susan Cox.
[00:06:08]  All right.
[00:06:09]  What a mystery.
[00:06:11]  So we thought we were out of the hellhole.
[00:06:15]  Meanwhile, and that three horses lost all the same way by then.
[00:06:19]  Yeah.
[00:06:20]  Okay.
[00:06:21]  Yeah, in that month of November.
[00:06:23]  They were all similar but different because Muffy walked around with leg tremors for like two weeks, you know, and they kept telling me she's slaughting off the toxin.
[00:06:33]  So then December comes around and it's the Tuesday before Christmas and my Philly, her, the mare that went down that was pregnant with the leg tremors, Muffy.
[00:06:48]  This was her 18-month-old foal, started trembling in the front end, and she was in the pen with a three-year-old mare.
[00:06:56]  So we watched her, and she went down, was paralyzed, couldn't move, and she stayed like that that whole week until Saturday morning when my husband and his friends could get her loaded into the trailer and take her down to the diagnosics lab down in Tucson at the university there, where, of course, they were going to put her to sleep.
[00:07:19]  I've lost between $25,000 and $40,000 worth of animals.
[00:07:23]  How much?
[00:07:24]  About $25,000 to $40,000 worth of animal horses.
[00:07:28]  Oh, my gosh.
[00:07:30]  I owe $2,000 in veterinarian bills diagnostic lab results, and also I owe $350 to the Gilbert in the equine animal surgical unit there.
[00:07:44]  Not only do I owe $2,000 in veterinarian bills or lab tests or whatever you may call it, my loss financially, plus I had to turn away eight breedings to my stallion, which he's 19 years old.
[00:07:55]  He's a foundation blood quarter horse.
[00:07:57]  He is like a fantastic animal, and to turn away eight breedings at $450 a month plus $5 a day mare care is you're looking in the thousands again that I'm losing.
[00:08:07]  Not only the emotional attachment and my daughter's horse that, you know, we broke and trained and she was roping on it and everything else.
[00:08:15]  I mean, and the horse was only five years old.
[00:08:18]  The lab could not determine a diagnosis, and tests on the hay feed and water for toxins were also negative.
[00:08:25]  Five horses gone in six months, no insurance, and nothing certain about what was wrong.
[00:08:31]  Then on Christmas morning, neighboring ranchers Heidi and Larky Baker's 17-year-old mare could not stand up or eat her food.
[00:08:39]  Two days later, on December 27th, their three-year-old stud colt had the same symptoms, tight jaw muscles, couldn't chew, and went to the ground unable to get up.
[00:08:50]  The bakers knew that Sue and Harley Cox had paid for veterinarian and lab analysis on their five dead horses without a clear diagnosis of what was wrong.
[00:08:59]  The bakers also knew that at least four other horses and a mule had suffered paralysis and died.
[00:09:05]  So they decided not to waste money and shot the mare and colt to put them out of their misery.
[00:09:11]  The bakers prayed their last surviving horse, a four-year-old Mustang mare, would stay well.
[00:09:18]  But after their stud colt died December 27th, Heidi Baker knew her mare was sick too.
[00:09:25]  27th, I noticed that my mare, her name's Dioji, I noticed that Dioji had a sore throat because she was not drinking, she was not eating, and when she did try to drink, she could not swallow.
[00:09:38]  So I gave her a whole bunch of throat lozenges, you know, because they like candy, and to see what would happen.
[00:09:44]  That whole day, she was very lethargic, you know, just lipping at food.
[00:09:48]  Has anybody in the veterinarian community or other said to you, is this what we think has killed the horses?
[00:09:56]  The state vet told me straight up, he said that we cannot.
[00:10:00]  He looked me straight in the face.
[00:10:01]  He said, we are not able to rule out botulism, but we really do not believe it to be botulism.
[00:10:08]  We believe it to be a toxin.
[00:10:09]  Those were his words to me.
[00:10:11]  Larky Baker estimated that the region where the horses have been ill in Ash Fork is only about two and a half miles long and a half mile wide.
[00:10:21]  A common denominator are hundreds of crows everywhere, and ranchers haul water in trucks to open cisterns where chlorine tablets are added.
[00:10:31]  Humans and horses and crows drink the same water.
[00:10:36]  So far, water analyses have not turned up any suspicious pathogen or poison, but the U.S. Department of Agriculture did find something that could be the source of botulism C.
[00:10:48]  I talked to Lloyd Brown, Public Information Officer for Arizona's Department of Agriculture in Phoenix.
[00:10:55]  We were investigating the dumping of some animals nearby there.
[00:11:01]  Oh, okay.
[00:11:02]  Dead animals.
[00:11:03]  Dead animals.
[00:11:04]  Now remember, from your Type C botulism course in college, that we no, I'm kidding.
[00:11:10]  I know, but it's related with dead animals.
[00:11:12]  It's related to dead animals.
[00:11:14]  There was an animal that was dumped and left in an open grave in June 1998.
[00:11:22]  After that, other animals that died in that area were dumped in the same location.
[00:11:28]  That area was covered the week of January 25th.
[00:11:32]  Okay, so all of those, I think the final count was five for sure and maybe a sixth animal.
[00:11:38]  And certainly the birds and some of the local coyotes or local wildlife had been feeding on those remains.
[00:11:50]  Wouldn't they have died as well?
[00:11:51]  Birds are known to be carriers of botulism toxins and spores.
[00:11:58]  So if you have birds feeding on a rotting carcass and it's a dry year and those birds are flying over to water buckets and getting a drink and you know so there's a little bit more to this investigation that kind of also is being considered.
[00:12:19]  All the crows in Ashfork could be eating exposed dead animals and their droppings ended up in the horse's water and food.
[00:12:27]  It's not certain.
[00:12:29]  On February 3rd and 4th, a team of USDA veterinarians and pathologists joined Arizona State veterinarians to collect bird droppings, soil, plants, and water at the Cox and Baker farms.
[00:12:41]  The team also collected blood from the three remaining Cox horses that are alive to study.
[00:12:47]  Then on Friday, February 5th, the Arizona Department of Agriculture released a news update to the media that in part stated, quote, laboratory analysis found botulism type C spores in gut samples collected from a horse that died in November 1998.
[00:13:05]  Combined with the clinical symptoms exhibited by the sick animals, the finding of spores seemed to support earlier assumptions that the cause of the deaths probably is isolated to the Ash Fork area and probably is not spread by horse-to-horse contact.
[00:13:22]  Meanwhile, the joint diagnostic team comprised of experts from a series of institutions that are listed in this release, and they say livestock owners should contact the Arizona Department of Agriculture Office of the state veterinarian at area code 602-542-4293.
[00:13:45]  All right, I've learned you should always do that twice.
[00:13:48]  People run for a pencil and paper.
[00:13:50]  It's true, and this is so important because if livestock owners are anywhere experiencing any of the symptoms they're hearing tonight on the program so far in the veterinarian yet to come, this is the number in Arizona to call.
[00:14:06]  Again, the Arizona Department of Agriculture Office of the State Veterinarian is Area Code 6025424293.
[00:14:19]  And this is for assistance gathering samples if you believe that an animal is displaying botulism type symptoms.
[00:14:27]  Now the press release says botulism symptoms include muscle tremors and weakness, difficulty swallowing, the tongue may hang out, and eventual paralysis of respiratory muscles causing death within 24 to 72 hours.
[00:14:43]  Steps to reduce exposure to botulism include making sure all dead animals are always buried or disposed of properly since decomposing flesh is known to contribute to the formation of botulism type C toxin.
[00:14:57]  Also, since birds may be involved in the dissemination of the botulism toxin, horse owners should minimize the attraction of birds to animal areas, thus cover hay piles and grain and regularly change water and clean water containers.
[00:15:13]  The press release also pointed out there is no botulism type C vaccine approved for horses.
[00:15:21]  The lab where the botulism C spores were identified in the gut tissue of Sue Cox's horse was the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine.
[00:15:31]  There, Dr. Robert Whitlock, Associate Professor of Veterinary Medicine, is considered one of the country's leading experts on botulism, especially botulism C.
[00:15:42]  I asked Dr. Whitlock to describe typical symptoms and art.
[00:15:47]  If we have to interrupt this interview, we can take it across the bottom of the hour.
[00:15:52]  It's very important to hear from this man who is such an expert in this very difficult, complex disease that especially affects horses.
[00:16:01]  Now, Dr. Whitlock.
[00:16:07]  Typical clinical signs of botulism in adult horses are a bit variable, but are characterized essentially by muscle weakness.
[00:16:16]  This can be manifested in a variety of ways.
[00:16:19]  Foals, for example, have a decreased responsiveness to nurse the mare, or when they try to nurse the mare, milk may fall out of the side of the lips.
[00:16:31]  Because they're not able to control the muscles in their mouth well.
[00:16:34]  Correct.
[00:16:35]  And then they show evidence of lying down more than normal, but otherwise appear okay for the first few hours other than just lying down.
[00:16:44]  They look normal, bright and alert and active.
[00:16:48]  And then this progressively become more tired until the point that they cannot get up or that they are unable to nurse.
[00:16:58]  And then eventually become recumbent.
[00:17:00]  Some foals, as well as adult horses, may present with initial clinical signs of abdominal pain, although this is not common, but does occur.
[00:17:10]  And occasionally the abdominal pain may be so severe as to mimic surgical colic and require surgical intervention.
[00:17:17]  But again, this is very rare and mostly occurs in adult horses.
[00:17:21]  And from the onset of a botulism taking over a horse, what is the typical length of them being sick before they die?
[00:17:31]  The onset of clinical, the progression of clinical signs of botulism in horses ranges enormously from as short as a few hours to over several days to two or three weeks, and some horses may actually recover from botulism without treatment.
[00:17:51]  Now, in the Arizona case, I think part of the confusion has been in the ranchers that I've talked to there, they were rejecting botulism as an explanation because in a few of the cases, the horses they said had been alive for some period of time, days or weeks, presenting signs of weakness or trembling of muscles, but not dying within three or four days.
[00:18:18]  The botulism as a disease is toxin dose dependent.
[00:18:24]  And it only makes sense that the more toxin that a horse will, or any animal for that matter, can ingest, and the more that they absorb from the GI tract, the more rapid the progression of clinical signs.
[00:18:37]  If it's a massive dose of toxin, horses can ingest it and be dead within 12 hours and never be seen to be abnormal by the owner.
[00:18:47]  But that's extremely unusual.
[00:18:50]  Most horses do progress over a period of three to five days, gradually becoming more weak, recumbent.
[00:18:56]  Most horses show some evidence of inability to eat normally or swallow normally.
[00:19:01]  All right, we'll hold it right there.
[00:19:06]  So, I wonder if that's what we've got on our hands.
[00:19:09]  A isolated case of botulism or watch.
[00:19:13]  This is Coast to Coast AM.
[00:19:16]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:19:17]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.

=== Something Definite Concerns Me (08:41) ===

[00:20:02]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[00:20:07]  Good morning.
[00:20:08]  I am Art Bell, and this is going to be a very interesting half-hour.
[00:20:12]  We're going to finish up on the botulism, and then I have something to tell you: something that occurred today here.
[00:20:19]  Something that definitely concerns me.
[00:20:23]  So stay tuned for that.
[00:20:25]  All of that coming up, and Brad Steiger with a real surprise at the top of the hour.
[00:20:31]  Stay right where you are.
[00:20:52]  It's back to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Linda Morton Howell.
[00:20:55]  Linda, let us continue with the interview.
[00:20:58]  Okay, before the break, I had asked Dr. Whitlock from the onset of botulism taking over a horse, what is the typical length of them being sick before they die?
[00:21:08]  And he was stressing that it is a disease that is dependent upon the dose, the strength of the dose of the toxin.
[00:21:16]  What has the horse ingested?
[00:21:19]  And the botulism must be ingested.
[00:21:21]  You cannot pass botulism C from horse to horse.
[00:21:26]  It has to be what they take into their body.
[00:21:28]  And with that as background, Dr. Whitlock, University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, continues.
[00:21:36]  Alright?
[00:21:41]  We hope he continues.
[00:21:45]  He's been promised to continue.
[00:21:47]  They get down.
[00:21:49]  Continues.
[00:21:50]  A lot of cases will get up and down for a few days and depends upon continued absorption of toxin from the gut or how much they absorb and begin with as to whether or not they will recover or go ahead and die.
[00:22:03]  Is it true that birds can pick away at dead carcasses, take in the botulism spore into the birds, and then transfer it around the countryside in air droppings, infecting horses without the birds themselves dying?
[00:22:22]  That is suspected to occur and not been proven to occur, but that is a plausible explanation because this outbreak, there are different types of botism, strains, if you will, type A, B, C, D, E, F, and G.
[00:22:39]  And this is type C. Type C botoism is most often associated, or nearly always associated, with carrion or dead animals.
[00:22:50]  And then the toxin is produced in the dead animal.
[00:22:53]  The horse has access to that, or the animal or person or whatever, but it's usually the dead animal.
[00:23:01]  Whereas type A bottom, type B botosome are both considered to be soil contaminants that get into the forage, and then the forage is not preserved correctly, and then the bottom spores form toxin in the forage.
[00:23:17]  But this is type C, so it's probably from carrion.
[00:23:20]  And this botulism type C was they found spores in the gut of one horse.
[00:23:26]  Two samples from one horse.
[00:23:27]  There was pretty strong concentration.
[00:23:28]  That's correct.
[00:23:30]  Did the Department of Agriculture and the State Veterinarian in Arizona go over each of these 13 cases with you as they?
[00:23:39]  No.
[00:23:40]  I know I have a very sketchy history by talking to other veterinarians, primarily that in the last month out there.
[00:23:50]  So you have talked with some of the veterinarians in Arizona.
[00:23:54]  And in terms of the description of symptoms as they've described to you, what has been your overall impression?
[00:24:01]  Overall impression, it's possible.
[00:24:03]  Some of them seem compatible with botulism, but some of them finds that were described were not.
[00:24:08]  And I guess what I'm wondering is, is it possible that all these 13 horses may not have the same problem?
[00:24:14]  Some of them are good at botulism, some of them not.
[00:24:17]  I think each horse needs to be evaluated by itself and look at the progression of events and so on like that.
[00:24:27]  For example, one or two of the cases that another veterinarian talked about were dog-sitting and getting up and down repeatedly.
[00:24:33]  Well, dog-sitting position is not typical of botulism.
[00:24:37]  I'm not saying it doesn't occur, but it's very, very uncommon.
[00:24:41]  And if they were repeated dog-sitting and repeatedly getting up and down over a period of five to seven days, I would say they believe that that is highly unlikely to be botulism.
[00:24:51]  Does it remind you of any syndrome that you're aware of?
[00:24:54]  Yeah, herpes myelitis.
[00:24:56]  Herpes myelitis.
[00:24:58]  Correct.
[00:24:58]  And how would the horse get that?
[00:25:00]  It's a virus infection amongst the horse population.
[00:25:04]  How do people get herpes?
[00:25:05]  They get exposed to other horses that have it.
[00:25:09]  Have they tested for this?
[00:25:11]  I don't know.
[00:25:13]  Is it typical of herpes myelitis or botulism C to have, for example, clusters of deaths like that?
[00:25:22]  Very much so.
[00:25:24]  And they took three more vials of blood from the three surviving horses on the Susan and Harley Cox ranch last two or three days ago, and they're going to be doing some more comparative testing with samples that were taken from the dead horse.
[00:25:44]  They are trying to rule out more and see if they come up with anything else that may be more definitive.
[00:25:53]  But as Dr. Whitlock stressed with me, trying to be definitive when it's very difficult to find botulin toxin, even in a horse that has died, is sometimes difficult to prove this.
[00:26:08]  So we are in one of those areas where the clinical symptoms of many of the horses, as you heard Heidi Baker and Sue Cox describe, fit many of the symptoms of botulism C, but there are some others that don't, some other symptoms.
[00:26:26]  And he was just bringing up this odd behavior of some of the horses in what's called the dog sitting position that's associated with this other disease, herpes myelitis.
[00:26:37]  And it's not clear yet if that's been tested for.
[00:26:40]  The labs are still working on this.
[00:26:43]  And Mr. Brown at the U.S. Department of Agriculture stressed that they want to continue to do research on this.
[00:26:50]  And so far, right now, as of February, there have been no new cases that we know of yet.
[00:26:59]  All right.
[00:27:00]  Well, that certainly sums it up well.
[00:27:02]  I guess all I would say in summation is, one, I wonder if it really was botulism after listening to all that.
[00:27:10]  Well, they found the botulism spore in two places in the gut of one of Sue Cox's horses in November.
[00:27:18]  So that part, that one horse, that's pretty definitive.
[00:27:22]  It's the question, was the same kind of syndrome involving the other horses, and was it related to the spread of botulism C from the USDA did find this pit where some dead animals had been being laid.
[00:27:40]  Not the horses, but other kinds of carrion had been being laid and not covered.
[00:27:46]  And they did not get that pit casually laid out there with dead animals in it covered until the end of January.
[00:27:54]  And for that to have occurred, that might have set up the syndrome for this kind of contamination in a community that was unaware that that animal pit was there.
[00:28:05]  Okay, well, I could say then, based on that, it could be a case closed situation.
[00:28:12]  Hopefully is isolated and case closed.
[00:28:15]  And we'll sort of keep our ears to the wind for anything else in this same area.

=== Negligent Marketing Practices (02:19) ===

[00:28:20]  Yes, whatever new laboratory information they get, if it changes the story, I'll let everybody know.
[00:28:27]  All right, good.
[00:28:28]  Linda, wonderful.
[00:28:29]  Thank you for the report.
[00:28:30]  If you wish to give out your fax number, please go ahead.
[00:28:33]  Thanks.
[00:28:34]  For people in the audience who want to contact me on this story or any other unusual phenomena or environmental problems in this earth, please fax me at Area Code 215-491-9842.
[00:28:51]  That's area code 215-491-9842 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
[00:28:58]  And thanks, Art.
[00:29:00]  And thank you, Linda.
[00:29:01]  Talk to you Sunday on Dreamland.
[00:29:02]  Okay.
[00:29:03]  All right, take care.
[00:29:05]  All right.
[00:29:08]  There's something I want to talk to you about.
[00:29:11]  By the way, quickly, what is the news?
[00:29:13]  By midday Friday, the Senate should vote on whether our press stays or goes.
[00:29:17]  It's a foregone.
[00:29:18]  He's going to stay.
[00:29:21]  And he's probably not going to be real happy, they're saying, with the House managers that went after him.
[00:29:27]  Well, in politics, what comes around goes around, you know.
[00:29:33]  This one should chill you to the bone.
[00:29:35]  A federal jury found several gunmakers liable Thursday in three shootings because of negligent marketing practices.
[00:29:46]  Because of negligent marketing practices.
[00:29:50]  What the hell does that mean?
[00:29:53]  The verdict considered precedent for cities trying to recoup the cost of gun violence.
[00:29:57]  The jury ordered that Stephen Fox 19, the only survivor in the New York area shootings, be paid $560,000.
[00:30:06]  The defendants were accused of dumping handguns onto the market while making no effort to identify and discipline honest distributors.
[00:30:19]  Oh, my, my, my.

=== William Thomas And Contrails (15:35) ===

[00:30:24]  What does dumping guns onto the market mean?
[00:30:27]  How does dumping guns onto the market make you responsible for somebody who murders somebody else?
[00:30:33]  This is a very chilling ruling.
[00:30:37]  Very, very chilling.
[00:30:39]  So that sums up the news, such as it is.
[00:30:42]  I've got so much for you and so little time to give it to you.
[00:30:46]  And today here in the Valley, something, do any of you remember the, I'm not sure how to approach this properly with you.
[00:30:56]  Do you remember the show we did with William Thomas on Contrails?
[00:31:03]  Well, fortunately, I've scheduled William Thomas to come back next week.
[00:31:10]  And let me tell you why I say fortunately for me three separate times today.
[00:31:20]  I'm not sure how to present this to you without really sounding like a crackpot, but that won't surprise a lot of you who probably think I am anyway.
[00:31:27]  So who cares?
[00:31:29]  I want to just tell you what I saw, what's usual and what was unusual.
[00:31:34]  Usual here in the Prump Valley is for jets at high altitude, you know, to be either headed toward Las Vegas, mainly east-west routes we see here, occasional north-south, but mostly east-west.
[00:31:51]  Generally, San Francisco-bound flights, for example, will be seen flying from the east over us toward the west, toward San Francisco, cutting to the north and west.
[00:32:02]  That's typical.
[00:32:05]  We can see the path to the south toward Los Angeles, and you can see contrails occasionally there.
[00:32:12]  And I've been looking at jets traverse my little valley now for better than a decade.
[00:32:18]  You know, they just do it.
[00:32:20]  They come, they go.
[00:32:22]  Today, three separate times, folks, jets, big ones, at altitude, and when I say at altitude, I'm talking about cruising altitude, probably 33,000 feet or better.
[00:32:40]  Three times today, jets came into the Perump Valley, or above it, I should say, and cut a very tight 360-degree turn, and then kept on trucking in the direction they were headed.
[00:32:59]  Now, there's simply no reason whatsoever for a jet outbound from Las Vegas to go into any sort of pattern, much less a 360-degree turn over the Las Vegas Valley, Perump Valley.
[00:33:17]  Now, you could imagine they might do that in Las Vegas, where they might get stacked up for traffic or something, but not here.
[00:33:25]  Moreover, these contrails were extremely unusual.
[00:33:32]  They looked like the kind of contrail you would see from a ramjet engine.
[00:33:38]  And by that I mean sort of smoke rings.
[00:33:40]  The contrails formed into O-rings.
[00:33:46]  And then they spread and joined and formed into a bank of cloudiness, I will call it.
[00:33:56]  Now that occurred not once, but three times today.
[00:34:00]  One, two, three times today.
[00:34:07]  I am not given to nasal problems.
[00:34:15]  I've always been pretty clear all my life.
[00:34:19]  I've had several sneezing fits today.
[00:34:22]  And when I say fits, I mean to where for three or four minutes or five minutes, I literally couldn't stop sneezing.
[00:34:32]  Then in my sleep, I was awakened by a sneezing fit.
[00:34:39]  I mean, it just went on for five minutes.
[00:34:43]  I'm not subject to respiratory difficulty, never have been all my life.
[00:34:47]  And my wife, who is subject to respiratory difficulty, she has asthma, is having an attack of asthma today.
[00:35:02]  So, you know, I'm not exactly sure how you approach the subject that I'm obviously talking about without sounding like a crackpot.
[00:35:11]  But I'm glad I've got William Thomas coming back on next week.
[00:35:14]  Oh, and one more thing.
[00:35:18]  I went out and took photographs of these very, very, very odd contrails.
[00:35:26]  I took photographs of them.
[00:35:30]  And with any luck at all, we'll have them back tomorrow.
[00:35:33]  They're going to be developed tomorrow, and I'm going to get them up on the web.
[00:35:36]  I want you to see them for three separate at-altitude commercial size aircraft.
[00:35:45]  I didn't say commercial because I had no way of knowing.
[00:35:48]  They're too far up.
[00:35:50]  Large aircraft, military or civilian, to come across our valley and literally do a tight 360-degree turn and then continue on in their direction westward, in this case, north of west towards San Francisco, is completely bizarre.
[00:36:13]  To see these kind of contrails is completely bizarre.
[00:36:22]  So William Thomas will be here next week, Thursday night, Friday morning.
[00:36:28]  We moved him because we've got Gary.
[00:36:31]  In fact, let me tell you what we've got coming up.
[00:36:33]  In a moment, of course, Brad Steiger, and we've got a surprise for you, followed by Sylvia Brown on Friday night, Saturday.
[00:36:41]  And then Monday night, Tuesday, next week, Albert Taylor, followed on Tuesday by Wayne Green.
[00:36:49]  I've got a lot of ham radio news for you.
[00:36:52]  And then Wednesday night, Thursday morning, Gordon Michael Scallion will be here.
[00:36:58]  And oh boy, does he have news for you?
[00:37:00]  And then Thursday night, Friday, William Thomas, followed Friday night, Saturday by Dr. Gary North and Y2K.
[00:37:11]  And by the way, very quickly on Y2K, from the Fresno newspaper, they interviewed one, two, three, four people, you know, with their pictures about what they think about Y2K.
[00:37:25]  And I won't read the people's names.
[00:37:27]  This young lady on the left says, quote, I don't know about it.
[00:37:32]  I'm too busy working.
[00:37:33]  I don't have time to read the paper.
[00:37:36]  That was her response.
[00:37:39]  The next fellow said, quote, about Y2K, I found out they already solved that.
[00:37:45]  I heard they're going to start over back to 0-0.
[00:37:49]  I'm not concerned about it.
[00:37:51]  End quote.
[00:37:52]  And then somebody with an unusual hairdo says, my family is, meaning concerned.
[00:38:01]  They think like we're going to starve, but I think they're idiots.
[00:38:05]  And then our final survey person, a young lady, looks to be in her early 20s, says, the country is way too commercial.
[00:38:14]  I think if we crash, it's cool.
[00:38:17]  So what do we have here?
[00:38:18]  Four people surveyed by the Fresno newspaper.
[00:38:24]  All of them saying, essentially, don't worry, be happy.
[00:38:28]  Or anybody who thinks about something like that, computer problems, crashes, they've got to be crazy.
[00:38:39]  So if that's the attitude, that's the attitude of people.
[00:38:48]  All I can say is this.
[00:38:50]  Before they sue the gun manufacturers out of existence, if you have prepared for Y2K, you had better prepare.
[00:39:02]  If you follow me, prepare to prepare.
[00:39:06]  I'll say.
[00:39:07]  The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
[00:39:13]  More Somewhere in Time coming up.
[00:39:33]  The Mirror Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
[00:39:54]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[00:39:59]  Brad Steiger is a master of investigation into the paranormal.
[00:40:05]  Brad Steiger is my guest tonight.
[00:40:09]  Brad Steiger and Art Bell have a new book.
[00:40:14]  It's called The Source.
[00:40:18]  And it reflects our thinking, as we have done shows over the years now, and boy, it is over the years now, too, about all kinds of phenomena that we live with today.
[00:40:31]  And I say live with because it's all around us and more and more lately.
[00:40:37]  And it's sort of a compilation of a view on these various subjects by the two of us, adding up to what we believe to be the answer to just about all of it.
[00:40:51]  I think it's dynamic, it's not simplistic, it's comprehensive.
[00:40:56]  It's an overview of a lot of things you're going to hear talked about tonight, leading toward, for a change, some sort of explanation, at least involving the source.
[00:41:09]  That's the name of the book, The Source.
[00:41:12]  And you can get it right now.
[00:41:14]  We'll tell you all about that as time goes on.
[00:41:16]  Brad Steiger, up to bat in a moment.
[00:41:19]  Here we go.
[00:41:40]  Brad Steiger, out to the nation's heartland.
[00:41:43]  And again, I can only think of Brad as a master after all these years.
[00:41:51]  And is master the right word of an investigator into the paranormal?
[00:41:57]  I think so.
[00:41:58]  After all these years, you've earned that much.
[00:42:00]  You're a master at that.
[00:42:02]  Welcome, Brad.
[00:42:03]  Thank you.
[00:42:03]  Thank you.
[00:42:05]  I appreciate that very warm welcome.
[00:42:09]  The big news, of course, is that the two of us have written a book.
[00:42:14]  Yes, and it's finally in our hands.
[00:42:16]  It's finally in our hands.
[00:42:18]  And this has been a secret, ongoing process now for quite a long time, through some interesting times, as a matter of fact.
[00:42:27]  Yes.
[00:42:29]  We did, I don't know how many shows we've done together, a whole series of them, many of them.
[00:42:34]  And we have discussed probably every aspect of the paranormal that one could nearly imagine.
[00:42:43]  And we've come to some conclusions that are laid out, I think, very reasonably in this book about the phenomena, the various phenomena.
[00:42:54]  And then, of course, Pointing toward what we think of as a probable single source.
[00:43:02]  How would you explain the book?
[00:43:04]  Well, I think that did it very well.
[00:43:07]  I think I sent some copies of The Galleys to people.
[00:43:13]  How should I say this?
[00:43:15]  They're my harshest critics in one sense, but they always tell it to me straight.
[00:43:23]  And one man is a book reviewer for a major, major newspaper.
[00:43:29]  And he said he was totally fascinated by the book.
[00:43:35]  And he said, you know, I'm familiar with your work.
[00:43:38]  I've heard art.
[00:43:39]  And he says, it was so fascinating to see what you guys really think about the subject.
[00:43:46]  And he said the way we tied it together, he said the last chapter alone, he says, was worth the price of the book.
[00:43:54]  Of course, there again, as a reviewer, he didn't pay anything for it.
[00:43:58]  But my point being that I was so pleased that this guy, I mean, this guy reads books for a living.
[00:44:06]  He reads dozens of books a week, and that he was taken by it.
[00:44:09]  The other response I've been getting, which pleases me, and I know will please you, my friend, is people have said there's something new on every page.
[00:44:17]  This is the most information-packed book that they've read.
[00:44:21]  So, again, I don't mean to be self-serving in that sense, but I'm excited and I'm delighted that the book is getting that kind of response from professional reviewers and people who, like I said, these are people that if they didn't like the book, they wouldn't have hesitated one minute to tell you.
[00:44:40]  They've just been very profuse in their praises.
[00:44:43]  All right, to be specific, the book covers the mysteries of our origins, human origins.
[00:44:50]  Oh, boy, are there lots of good mysteries about where we came from?
[00:44:53]  Oh, indeed.
[00:44:54]  It covers Roswell, the government cover-up of Roswell, alien abductions, cattle mutilations, angels and demons, and we're going to talk of those tonight, too.
[00:45:06]  Boy, are we going to talk of those?
[00:45:07]  UFOs and other space anomalies.
[00:45:12]  It discusses in great detail Native American beliefs because we've had so much feedback from so many Native Americans.
[00:45:19]  Millennial prophecy, ghosts out-of-body experiences, remote viewing.
[00:45:24]  All of these things that we have discussed and Brad and I have speculated before on the show about are discussed in some great detail in the book and then sort of woven together pointing toward a source for the whole thing.
[00:45:41]  And I think everybody will enjoy the read.

=== Heaven Gate Revelation (11:40) ===

[00:45:44]  It's a really, really good read.
[00:45:46]  I think, you know, without the difficulty, I suppose is giving it away.
[00:45:51]  Right, in discussing a book like this, is giving it away.
[00:45:54]  But I think, in all fairness, because, you know, I know neither one of us wants to be coy about it.
[00:46:00]  In all fairness, what we've done, in our opinion, is to say, as we have so often, people who have been listening to us in the past, is we've come at this from so many directions over the years.
[00:46:17]  And we always kind of end up kind of chuckling and saying yes, but couldn't an alien, couldn't that also be an angel?
[00:46:26]  And couldn't this?
[00:46:28]  And we come back to saying, well, couldn't it all be a single source that manifests itself in a way that the percipient, the witness of that manifestation, would best understand it and perhaps receive the most awareness and the most enlightenment from the experience.
[00:46:51]  So we're dealing a lot with the individual mystical experience, and we're tying that together and saying there is a source, a force, that's been shaping our entire species since our very beginning, our origins, and probably a little bit before.
[00:47:17]  It is, of course, on Amazon.com.
[00:47:20]  And I really, really chuckled when I read some of the reviews on Amazon.com.
[00:47:26]  Now, some of the people that wrote reviews are obviously from my newsgroup, this news group, where they hate me and hate everybody that I talk to, whether it be Ed Dames or yourself or whoever.
[00:47:40]  Anyway, nobody's read the book, but we got anywhere from one star with crushing criticism.
[00:47:50]  Of course, they haven't read the book, but crushing criticism nevertheless.
[00:47:53]  To four stars and also five stars.
[00:47:57]  Some five stars, and they hadn't read the book either.
[00:48:00]  So it's interesting to me that people are able to simply sort of.
[00:48:05]  Well, that's a phenomenon in itself, of course.
[00:48:08]  It really is, isn't it?
[00:48:09]  In other words, they have listened to me, they know me on the radio, and they know you, I guess, from the radio and from the million books you've written.
[00:48:17]  Right.
[00:48:18]  And so based on, I guess, their pre-prejudice, they write either a raving, wonderful review or they slam us.
[00:48:28]  But nobody yet has read the book except the people that you just alluded to.
[00:48:33]  Yeah, who are professionals and whose opinion, I mean, I value everyone's opinion.
[00:48:38]  Don't misunderstand me, folks.
[00:48:40]  But I mean, these, you know, I guess, what is it they say, a jury of your peers or professionals and so forth.
[00:48:50]  The people who, like I say, will give it to you straight because they're professionals in the field and they've just been so positive about the book.
[00:49:01]  And they've read it in galleys.
[00:49:02]  They don't have the book.
[00:49:03]  That's right.
[00:49:04]  But you know automatically when a review begins with something like the raving lunatic of late-night airwaves has written another thing.
[00:49:14]  You know you're throwing away and you're not likely to get any sort of review.
[00:49:20]  No, well, I haven't checked it lately and just one I'd like to comment about because I hope people don't misunderstand.
[00:49:28]  Well, not implies, it speaks with great authority that the book is about Heaven's Gate.
[00:49:35]  I know, I know.
[00:49:36]  Now, I think you will agree with me, Art, that when I was writing my part of the book, Heaven's Gate was the farthest thing from my mind.
[00:49:45]  Yes, I know.
[00:49:46]  And I'm sure it was from yours.
[00:49:48]  Of course.
[00:49:49]  And it's saying that we stole this from the Heaven's Gate people.
[00:49:55]  Now, it's interesting to me, of course, because, as you know, because we did a show on it, Aiden Hughes, Hayden Hughes, and I wrote the first study of Bo and Peep as we know them.
[00:50:09]  I know you did, yeah.
[00:50:11]  In 1975, when they called themselves the Human Individual Metamorphosis, H-I-M.
[00:50:18]  And I guess that's the way I will always think of them.
[00:50:22]  So I really don't know about the source being a sect.
[00:50:26]  And I would guess that when the Baptist minister down the street gives a sermon on the source of all blessings, he's probably not thinking about Heaven's Gate either.
[00:50:37]  Well, Heaven's Gate was an intentional pick because, of course, of the controversy surrounding Heaven's Gate and my radio programme.
[00:50:46]  Oh, and that's so unfair.
[00:50:50]  I know.
[00:50:50]  So the only reviews worth reading are those of people who have read books.
[00:50:57]  And even the good reviews, I would discount, the four or five star ones I would discount because the people haven't read the book yet.
[00:51:05]  So they don't know what's in there.
[00:51:07]  It's an incredible book, folks.
[00:51:09]  And you can decide that because you can now get the book.
[00:51:13]  And of course, we will tell you how.
[00:51:15]  But it will discuss a lot of categories that you're going to hear us talk about tonight.
[00:51:19]  I'll tell you how to get the book here in a bit.
[00:51:22]  You know, I've got to bring up a little bit of synchronicity, excuse me, about Heaven's Gate.
[00:51:30]  I don't even know if you know this, but you called me when this unfortunate, which I say so unfair with you and the Comet and so forth, just as minutes before I was going on with Ted Koppel.
[00:51:50]  Now, you remember that I didn't go there.
[00:51:53]  They brought, ABC brought this huge, huge trailer with the screen on top, the size of a sperm whale, and packed up outside of our house.
[00:52:05]  And I did it live from our living room with Ted Koppel, of course.
[00:52:10]  And just as I was about to go on, the phone rang, and they were just putting the microphone on.
[00:52:16]  I said, well, it's my friend Arbell, and you said that.
[00:52:19]  And I thought, talk about synchronicity.
[00:52:22]  And, of course, here again, I hadn't made the slightest connection because I know you.
[00:52:28]  You are a journalist.
[00:52:30]  You do an interview.
[00:52:31]  No, Brad, stop.
[00:52:32]  I'm not a journalist.
[00:52:34]  I'm not.
[00:52:34]  A journalist is a news reporter.
[00:52:37]  Oh, okay.
[00:52:38]  I'm a talk show host.
[00:52:40]  If you use that definition, I know we've quibbled about this back and forth before, but you are a fair talk show host.
[00:52:49]  You let the people express their opinion without interruption, without criticism.
[00:52:55]  The same approach that I do when I interview people for my books.
[00:52:59]  That I will accept.
[00:53:00]  I do that.
[00:53:02]  That you do.
[00:53:03]  That you do.
[00:53:04]  Well, I just, because I don't know if you really realized when you called that night that I was just, you know, being hooked up to go on with Ted Koppel.
[00:53:15]  Well, I was going to fill you in on what was going on because it was a time of madness in Heaven's Gate.
[00:53:24]  At least personally for me, you know, you had one truck.
[00:53:27]  I had people surrounding my property, Brad.
[00:53:30]  I had news crews out there for, I don't know, it went on for, I don't know how long it went on for.
[00:53:37]  I've been through two of these sieges now, and they come out here and hang on my gate and lean over and peep, peep, peep inside, trying to figure out what's going on.
[00:53:46]  Whenever one of these big stories break, and there's going to be another one here pretty soon, my life seems full of them.
[00:53:55]  Well, you were having a much harder time of it than I was because I, of course, was being interviewed.
[00:54:01]  I was on with Sam Donaldson.
[00:54:03]  Because you had history with Bone Peep.
[00:54:05]  I was an expert.
[00:54:07]  I was an authority.
[00:54:08]  yes now what happened what do you tell couple basically Well, what I told Coppel is that interestingly, kind of what I said in your newsletter when that nice reporter asked for predictions.
[00:54:25]  With the millennium coming up, whatever that means to people, we're going to see more of these UFO cults.
[00:54:31]  We're going to see more of this happening.
[00:54:33]  Of course.
[00:54:34]  I said that in Bow and Peep, they did not intend to do harm to anybody.
[00:54:41]  They were harmful, unfortunately, only to themselves.
[00:54:44]  I had found, and I was on with her sister, by the way, her, as we know, Bo and Doe and so forth.
[00:54:55]  And then she very much appreciated, you know, the kindness I extended and the sympathy to her and the situation because it simply was something that got out of hand.
[00:55:05]  It was their belief structure.
[00:55:08]  And one of the gentlemen who was not there but wanted to, he made contact, said that the book and the treatment we made of Heaven's Gate, he thought was fair.
[00:55:20]  But you see, they totally believed.
[00:55:23]  And this man, eventually, just a few months ago, if I think you remember, he did in the Arizona desert, he did in his mind, you know, catch up with them or try to.
[00:55:34]  Yes.
[00:55:34]  So I think, you see, we cannot be critical of small religious groups because one of the major church body, in fact, all of the major church bodies existing today, once started as very small little groups.
[00:55:49]  And we have to be open, but at the same time, there are certain things that we can look for in terms of some of the negative groups that demand complete obeisance and demand all you know.
[00:56:01]  Well, I don't really know, though, how you get into these groups legitimately without violating people's rights.
[00:56:10]  In other words, here's what I think happens.
[00:56:12]  In my mind, here's what I think happens.
[00:56:14]  These small groups, led by somebody very charismatic, predict an event, and their faith and their belief system is dependent on this event occurring.
[00:56:27]  When the event doesn't occur, they make it a self-fulfilling prophecy in the manner of the Heaven's Gate suicides or David.
[00:56:37]  And they give a reason why it didn't happen.
[00:56:39]  David Koresh was another example.
[00:56:41]  Exactly.
[00:56:41]  You know, he could have walked out of there anytime, but he didn't.
[00:56:46]  He could have sent the children out anytime, but he didn't.
[00:56:50]  That does not, in my mind, forgive the way that event ended at all.
[00:56:56]  But the fact of the matter is, he could have walked out at any time or sent the children out and didn't do that.
[00:57:03]  So what he did was fulfill his own prophecy.
[00:57:07]  And I think that process at some point becomes inevitable.

=== Journey Through the Unexplained (10:09) ===

[00:57:10]  And I'm not sure how authorities or if authorities should really be infiltrating these groups to figure out if that's where they're headed.
[00:57:19]  We have freedom of religion in this country.
[00:57:20]  It's a very difficult issue.
[00:57:22]  Yes, sir, it is.
[00:57:23]  Hold it right there, and we'll be right back.
[00:57:27]  My guest is Brad Steiger, and there's nearly no road of the paranormal that he has not traveled down.
[00:57:33]  And yes, we do have a new book that I think you're going to love.
[00:57:37]  It's called The Source.
[00:57:39]  Journey Through the Unexplained.
[00:57:41]  If you get paper and pencil, soon I'll tell you how to get it.
[00:57:45]  We'll be right back.
[00:57:46]  So this is Premier Networks.
[00:57:48]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:57:54]  I can't hear what you've said.
[00:57:58]  The new setting goes wrong.
[00:58:02]  I fall behind.
[00:58:06]  The second hand unwinds you.
[00:58:29]  We take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:58:35]  If you like sex, You've got to love this.
[00:58:44]  This guy flat whales.
[00:58:46]  Good morning, everybody.
[00:58:47]  Brad Steiger is here.
[00:58:48]  I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. We'll get right back to it all in a moment.
[00:58:53]  I've got a surprise coming for you.
[00:58:55]  Yes, yep, a second surprise.
[00:58:59]  so stand by an interesting synchronicity with regard to the book that we've written called the source that is available as of tonight
[00:59:28]  First time ever, and for a very short time, you, if you can get through.
[00:59:34]  And if you can't get through tonight, I know the lines are really jammed.
[00:59:37]  If you can't get through tonight, tomorrow, or the next day, it won't be that soon that I'll give up signing.
[00:59:43]  You'll get a dual autograph copy, Brad Steiger, and Art Bell.
[00:59:48]  But let me tell you something interesting about the source, and I think Brad probably will verify this.
[00:59:54]  As you all know, there have been some really horrendous events in my life that have been taking place that I've been going through.
[01:00:05]  And I, on the one hand, dread and on the other hand, pray for the day when I can tell you about them.
[01:00:12]  And that day will come and maybe sooner than later, actually.
[01:00:16]  But during the time that this book was under construction, it's like the locusts fell on me.
[01:00:27]  And they fell and fell and fell.
[01:00:29]  And really, the locusts fell on Brad at the same time.
[01:00:34]  it was a very very very unusual period of time in both of our lives would that be fair to say brad without very fair very fair with Without over-dramatizing at all.
[01:00:45]  It was a time of great testing for both of us.
[01:00:50]  Exactly.
[01:00:52]  I've got a question for you, Brad.
[01:00:53]  How do you handle fame being famous?
[01:01:00]  I don't think I am famous.
[01:01:02]  Yeah, you are famous.
[01:01:03]  I mean, you are.
[01:01:04]  Of course you are.
[01:01:04]  When you go somewhere and oh, you're Brad Steiger.
[01:01:07]  Could I have an autograph?
[01:01:09]  I mean, that kind of famous.
[01:01:10]  How do you handle that?
[01:01:12]  I hope, graciously.
[01:01:15]  I guess, you know, I take my work very, very seriously, but I don't take myself all that seriously.
[01:01:24]  And to me, I'm just a country boy who got to realize his dream.
[01:01:35]  And I thank all my family, my ancestors, everyone who made it possible.
[01:01:44]  Whoever had something to do with it, huh?
[01:01:46]  Right.
[01:01:47]  Well, I don't handle it very well.
[01:01:50]  I'm pretty much of a private person by nature, and I don't understand it.
[01:01:59]  I don't nervous.
[01:02:02]  I'm not comfortable with it.
[01:02:05]  I'm shy.
[01:02:07]  I guess I'm shy.
[01:02:09]  Here's a good example of what happens around here.
[01:02:11]  I'm going to read this to you.
[01:02:12]  It's a letter that my wife just handed me that just came in.
[01:02:15]  Dear Art, I respect your reclusive desires, and I do not want to breach any boundary issues.
[01:02:22]  I'm a devoted listener, and to be quite frank, I wanted to have my picture taken with your house in the distant background, kind of an Elvis Graceland kind of thing.
[01:02:30]  My plan was to rent a car next time I was in Vegas, do a little detective work in Perump, and voila, be done with the camera work before Lord of the Dance started.
[01:02:40]  First stop was at a Perrump mobile station that sold two cheeseburgers for $2.
[01:02:46]  Being from Wisconsin, cheeseburgers are one of our weaknesses.
[01:02:49]  The cook knew of you, but had no idea where you lived.
[01:02:53]  Our highly trained eye then noticed a lady walking out of a real estate office.
[01:02:57]  You know, we assumed she would know.
[01:03:00]  She told us, head north on Highway 160 until we get to old Highway 110 Bel Vista Road, then take a left.
[01:03:07]  And there would be your house on the right-hand side of the road about four miles down.
[01:03:10]  She said there was a fence around your property with a sign that said Art Bell property.
[01:03:15]  Okay, now we're cooking.
[01:03:17]  So we did as instructed after traveling about five miles west on Highway 110.
[01:03:22]  We noticed that signs of civilization seemed to be no longer present.
[01:03:26]  Phone poles, power lines, nothing.
[01:03:28]  Really rough country.
[01:03:30]  Maybe we took a wrong turn or misunderstood directions.
[01:03:33]  We drove back all the way to the real estate office, asked her to go over the directions.
[01:03:36]  Again, she did.
[01:03:38]  She indicated everything correctly, but we just hadn't gone far enough.
[01:03:42]  So, okay, off we go again.
[01:03:44]  This time, it wasn't our plan to visit California, but that's where this wild goose chase took us.
[01:03:51]  Then back to Perump we go.
[01:03:53]  By now, the real estate office is closed.
[01:03:55]  Time to change sources anyway.
[01:03:57]  Stopped at a convenience store, asked the lady if she knew where you lived.
[01:04:00]  She said she knew and was all too willing to give us directions.
[01:04:04]  All we had to do was head south, turn right on Homestead Road, and find Art Bell's house.
[01:04:08]  She also mentioned that a friend of hers worked on your pump and hasn't been seen since.
[01:04:15]  We never found Homestead Road.
[01:04:17]  We were late for the show.
[01:04:18]  I didn't get my nap.
[01:04:19]  My lady said that I was grumpy from the disappointment of not completing my quest.
[01:04:24]  And as to finding where you live, my curiosity has waned.
[01:04:27]  I wish I would have considered having my picture taken in front of your post office box.
[01:04:33]  Now, people are doing that, and it's like it is, and I just don't know how to handle it, Brad.
[01:04:40]  I'm not good at this.
[01:04:41]  I guess I am a recluse, sort of.
[01:04:44]  Well, I sort of am too.
[01:04:45]  I'm a dichotomy, I guess.
[01:04:47]  My years as a teacher, as a lecturer, as a college professor, that helped.
[01:04:53]  But I live in Iowa, and Iowans are very unique in that regard.
[01:04:58]  And let me tell you, when we moved into town, we kept the lowest profile imaginable.
[01:05:06]  Sure.
[01:05:06]  There probably weren't three people here who knew what we did.
[01:05:10]  Sure.
[01:05:10]  They just knew the lights were on all night, and whatever they were doing, they didn't really harm anybody.
[01:05:17]  Then, after, suddenly, again, we go back to when I'm suddenly on Coppel and Donaldson and Peter Jennings and on all networks and everything with this.
[01:05:28]  I went to the post office after all this flurry, and the postmistress said, Okay, you're famous.
[01:05:37]  So we're going to treat you just exactly the way we did before.
[01:05:43]  And I said, I wouldn't have it any other way.
[01:05:48]  I'm so shy about it all.
[01:05:50]  I'm really shy.
[01:05:51]  It's just, I don't know.
[01:05:53]  I haven't figured out exactly how to handle it yet.
[01:05:56]  I suppose maybe someday I will.
[01:05:59]  I wrote a little article for the newsletter from my own newsletter that's entitled Be Careful What You Wish For.
[01:06:08]  And a lot of people think that it's really cool to be well-known or famous, and they just think about the cool side of it.
[01:06:16]  They never think about the downside of it.
[01:06:20]  Oh, that's true.
[01:06:20]  You know, like if anything happens at all, your entire property is surrounded by news crews, you know, with million times zoom cameras trying to get anything they can get.
[01:06:32]  I've been through that a few times now, and it's less than heaven.
[01:06:38]  All right, Brad, I want to begin talking about some of the things that we cover in our book.
[01:06:45]  Certainly.
[01:06:46]  And I want to start out with angels, Brad.
[01:06:51]  And the reason I want to start out with angels is because, A, I know that you have done a great deal of investigation over the years into angels.
[01:07:00]  And I've got a surprise second angel photograph on the website as of five minutes ago, folks.

=== Remarkable Guardian Angel Photo (10:46) ===

[01:07:08]  Have you already seen it?
[01:07:10]  No.
[01:07:10]  No, no, you haven't seen it.
[01:07:12]  I didn't even tell you about it.
[01:07:13]  I will tell you about it shortly.
[01:07:15]  But I want to discuss first the one that I've had up there for a couple of days.
[01:07:21]  This one is billed as a guardian angel.
[01:07:24]  And for those of you, I know a lot of you who don't have computers, I'll rely on Brad to back me up on this.
[01:07:32]  I'll read you what I got with the picture.
[01:07:34]  It says, Dear Art, this is the ghostly guardian angel picture.
[01:07:40]  From what we were able to find out, the vehicle in the picture was traveling across a bridge in Pauling, New York, where a deer ran in its path, causing the driver to attempt to avoid to hit it.
[01:07:53]  The driver lost control of the vehicle, and the resulting damage is incredible.
[01:07:59]  However, no one was injured or died in the crash.
[01:08:06]  Now, the photograph is of a car off barely off the center part of its lane toward the shoulder.
[01:08:19]  And near as I can see, this car is complete toast.
[01:08:24]  I mean, it is totaled.
[01:08:26]  There is nobody or nothing that should have walked away from this wreck.
[01:08:31]  You wouldn't think a jackrabbit could get out of that.
[01:08:33]  Not a chance.
[01:08:35]  And yet, the occupants were neither injured nor killed.
[01:08:40]  Now, in the foreground, or what appears to be the foreground of that, there is clearly what appears to be an angelic presence.
[01:08:52]  And boy, we could talk a lot about this.
[01:08:55]  It was handed to me about four days ago by my wife.
[01:08:59]  She said, Wow, look at this.
[01:09:01]  You know, Ramona said, Wow, look at this.
[01:09:03]  And I looked at it, and I am sent a lot of photographs, Brad, by different people.
[01:09:10]  Am I?
[01:09:11]  I'm sure you are as well.
[01:09:13]  And this one is got to be in the top three or four that I've ever seen.
[01:09:20]  I mean, it's way high on the list.
[01:09:22]  There is clearly something there.
[01:09:24]  It's not a strap.
[01:09:26]  It's not a reflection, as nearly as I can tell.
[01:09:29]  It is translucent for the most part, but very thick in some places.
[01:09:36]  I don't know.
[01:09:37]  You saw this one on the website, Brad.
[01:09:40]  What did you think?
[01:09:41]  Well, here again, we know that some people enjoy making up hoaxes and then laughing about it afterwards.
[01:09:51]  That's right.
[01:09:52]  If we can trust that this person is not using a computer in that sense, then it is a most remarkable picture.
[01:09:59]  Bearing in mind, I've got the I did the scan.
[01:10:02]  It's Kodak photograph, 35-millimeter photograph, and I've got the photograph.
[01:10:07]  The thing that when Sherry and I saw it, that we said immediately, you've, of course, heard countless stories of the Phantom Hitchhiker.
[01:10:17]  Oh, yes.
[01:10:18]  Well, Sherry went out in this stretch between Arizona and California where the Phantom Hitchhiker, where a phantom hitchhiker is often seen, and snapped the picture.
[01:10:29]  And, you know, it's that same form and that same shape.
[01:10:34]  So, again, this is a very convincing manifestation.
[01:10:39]  Yes, it is.
[01:10:40]  The shape, everything.
[01:10:42]  You know, again, from other similar photographs that have been sent us, or as I say, Sherry's taken a couple herself that bear this same.
[01:10:50]  So unless someone, you know, is which I'm not always pleased when people do that.
[01:10:57]  Well, now, in this case, we have the names of the people who sent the photograph, and we called them.
[01:11:02]  And this photograph was rescued by Tara, the daughter of Kathy, from Highland, New York.
[01:11:13]  And it was rescued in the sense that a professional photographer took this, you know, somebody who would run from a newspaper, local newspaper, take a photograph, and then was going to be discarded.
[01:11:26]  And she picked it up and said, wow, look at this, and kept it for herself and then sent it to me.
[01:11:33]  Well, one thing we know for certain, Art, if the people in that accident got out literally unscathed, then we know for certain angels were on duty.
[01:11:43]  Something.
[01:11:45]  I mean, it's just impossible.
[01:11:48]  That's just.
[01:11:49]  That's a you're dead wreck.
[01:11:51]  Yes.
[01:11:54]  And again, like I say, whether, and let's accept then, as it's given in good faith, we'll accept it in good faith.
[01:12:01]  I think it's a remarkable photograph.
[01:12:04]  I always accept that something can be faked.
[01:12:07]  Now, when you get a computer photograph, the odds of it being faked, unfortunately, go up because of the day and age we live in.
[01:12:15]  It's not impossible to fake something on a computer and then have a print or a negative and a print created from that.
[01:12:24]  I'm well aware of that.
[01:12:25]  So we are in very difficult times.
[01:12:27]  But this is a very, very convincing picture.
[01:12:30]  Very convincing picture.
[01:12:32]  And as I say, we know angels were there if those people got out alive.
[01:12:38]  Well, the thing is that then there are the stories, the millions of stories that people have of apparent intervention by angels, I guess.
[01:12:54]  Angels?
[01:12:55]  You know, it's as good a word as any, I suppose.
[01:12:57]  It's as good a word as any.
[01:12:59]  It's as good a word as any.
[01:13:00]  And so you have all these stories and some rare, like this, photographic evidence.
[01:13:08]  And it just blew me away.
[01:13:11]  So I make no warranties about its authenticity.
[01:13:14]  How can I?
[01:13:15]  I just tell you what I have.
[01:13:17]  Now.
[01:13:18]  And it's most remarkable.
[01:13:19]  Okay, I've got another one for you.
[01:13:23]  Here comes Most Remarkable Number Two.
[01:13:27]  It's up on my website.
[01:13:28]  I can't see it because I'm on the line that my computer would be on.
[01:13:32]  Are you really?
[01:13:33]  You have to describe it to me.
[01:13:34]  If I were able, Brad, at the top of the arrow, and we go into the top of the hour, if I were to disconnect and give you time to scramble online.
[01:13:44]  Well, no, I think Sherry has hers on.
[01:13:47]  Oh, she can.
[01:13:49]  So during the break, you think Sherry can get it on?
[01:13:51]  Sure.
[01:13:51]  Sure.
[01:13:52]  All right, then.
[01:13:53]  This one is also going to absolutely blow your mind.
[01:13:58]  Here's what was sent with it.
[01:13:59]  It says this photograph was taken by a 19-year-old serviceman out of an airplane window on Easter morning of 1963.
[01:14:10]  His only intention was to capture Sunrise beyond Mount Fuji.
[01:14:15]  When the role of film was developed, he was astonished to discover what appears to be Christ with arms outstretched, plainly visible.
[01:14:27]  Plainly visible.
[01:14:29]  I've seen that.
[01:14:30]  Have you?
[01:14:31]  Yeah, it's really remarkable.
[01:14:32]  He kept the photograph to himself, not knowing what to do with it.
[01:14:35]  Upon his release from the service, he gave it to our maternal grandfather, who kept it in an envelope, in a cigar box, with his personal and sentimental belongings for the rest of his life.
[01:14:46]  Upon his passing, the angel photograph was discovered there.
[01:14:51]  It's our hope that it serves to bring joy and a reminder that we are not alone, that miracles do indeed happen to everyone who sees it.
[01:15:00]  The photograph is the property and treasure of the Dennis family of Mammoth Lakes, California.
[01:15:06]  Well, maybe I spoke too soon because the one I saw was given to me by someone, I believe, in Spokane from their family.
[01:15:15]  I mean, you know, after all, many people receive miracles.
[01:15:19]  I haven't seen one like this.
[01:15:21]  Brad, this one.
[01:15:22]  Well, I'm eager to see it.
[01:15:24]  I'll pull it in.
[01:15:25]  Sherry's on another line, you see, so I can pull it in during the break.
[01:15:29]  That's absolutely excellent.
[01:15:31]  Now, what are angels, Brad, in your best estimation?
[01:15:39]  Are angels souls that were once mortal, or are angels, as others who would read the Bible would suggest, manifestations that never were human and are from God?
[01:16:00]  I think angel itself simply means messenger.
[01:16:03]  And there can be all kinds of messengers.
[01:16:07]  I tried to deal with that, you know, in the book we've talked about before, Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides.
[01:16:13]  Yes.
[01:16:15]  And of course, in The Source, you and I also threw in aliens into the mix because they can also be messengers.
[01:16:24]  So I think any time that we receive a non-physical blessing from a non-physical entity, I think we are justified if it is positive and has enriched our lives and brought awareness, a greater understanding, that we can call that entity an angel because that entity has performed an angelic deed for us.
[01:16:52]  Whether we're talking about the spirit of the deceased, whether we're talking about a separate creation of the Almighty, or whether we're talking about alien beings, and that can be multi-dimensional beings.
[01:17:07]  When we say alien, we should tell people we don't necessarily mean extraterrestrial when we talk.
[01:17:15]  We talk about extraterrestrials in the source, but when we say alien, we can also mean, as we do in the source, extra or multi-dimensional beings, non-physical beings, beings from other planes of reality, and art's favorite from the future.
[01:17:34]  Well, one of your favorites.

=== Where Are the Time Travelers? (15:23) ===

[01:17:36]  As you all know, I've thought for a long time, you're going to get me off on a tear here, that time travel is going to be possible.
[01:17:45]  In fact, a lot of theoretical physicists agree very much that it's going to be possible.
[01:17:52]  And so the age-old question, well, then, where are the time travelers?
[01:17:57]  And the answer may be, they may be here, and there may be some evidence that they have been here.
[01:18:05]  And even long ago.
[01:18:06]  I mean, things in places, Brad, where they ought not be.
[01:18:09]  Right, right.
[01:18:10]  That kind of evidence.
[01:18:12]  As we do in the source, we present both sides.
[01:18:15]  We do say, you know, that they could be time travel.
[01:18:18]  We could say they could be past civilizations.
[01:18:20]  We could say they are extraterrestrial.
[01:18:22]  That's right.
[01:18:23]  I think people will be very pleased, you know, at how eclectic we are.
[01:18:27]  We tie it together in terms of a central philosophy and weave all the various strands together in our tapestry.
[01:18:36]  But I think people see that we're very eclectic and look at many different points of view.
[01:18:41]  Well, I think anybody who has even the smallest open aperture in their mind would want to take this in.
[01:18:48]  Really, it is that good.
[01:18:51]  Here we are blowing our own horns.
[01:18:54]  Anyway, listen, this now applies to all of you.
[01:18:57]  There is a photograph up there that is just going to blow your mind.
[01:19:01]  Actually, it's right next to the other one of the car.
[01:19:04]  Take a look.
[01:19:07]  It's awesome.
[01:19:09]  And you know me, I am not exactly Mr. Religion.
[01:19:13]  I serve up what is sent to me.
[01:19:15]  And I thank, by the way, the Dennis family for sending this to me.
[01:19:20]  Aloha to you, Dennis.
[01:19:22]  There it is.
[01:19:24]  This is Coast to Coast AM.
[01:19:58]  You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
[01:20:02]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[01:20:06]  Anybody not getting prepared for what may be coming is I can't get over these newspaper quotes, these people who are sort of don't worry, be happy, or it's solved, or what's Y2K?
[01:20:23]  What are you going to say, huh?
[01:20:44]  Back in a second to Brad Steiger, who perhaps by now has seen the photograph, the astounding photograph that I just put up on the website.
[01:20:54]  It is astounding.
[01:20:55]  I mean, it is a mind-blower.
[01:20:57]  I was talking to my board op in Oregon, and I had him go up and take a look, and he went, Oh, my God, I've got to print this out.
[01:21:05]  Perhaps an appropriate phrase.
[01:21:06]  I don't know.
[01:21:08]  The source is a brand new book by Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
[01:21:13]  It's listed that way.
[01:21:14]  It ought to say Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[01:21:16]  I'm the baby author here, not Brad.
[01:21:18]  Brad is the seasoned pro.
[01:21:22]  He's got a hundred and I don't know how many books.
[01:21:26]  How many books do you have now, Brad?
[01:21:28]  This is 144.
[01:21:30]  144.
[01:21:31]  Stay good and close to the phone for me.
[01:21:33]  144.
[01:21:34]  144 books.
[01:21:36]  So I told our publisher that your name should have been first.
[01:21:41]  And maybe he just went by the alphabet.
[01:21:44]  I don't know.
[01:21:45]  Alphabet is good.
[01:21:47]  I don't know.
[01:21:48]  But your name should have been out front in my book.
[01:21:50]  Well, bless your heart.
[01:21:53]  It's a wonderful book.
[01:21:54]  And folks, if you want it, you can get a dual autographed copy.
[01:21:59]  That's unusual.
[01:22:00]  And I don't know how you are about this, Brad, but after a while, I can't sign anymore.
[01:22:06]  So, for as long as the two of us hold out, they'll be dual autographs.
[01:22:11]  Now, if Brad holds out longer than I do, you may get a Brad Steiger autograph, and you may not get an Art Bell autograph.
[01:22:20]  Or it may work out that Brad will poop out first.
[01:22:23]  Unlikely, I think.
[01:22:25]  I'm kind of a wussy when it comes to this.
[01:22:29]  My favorite exercise is signing books.
[01:22:31]  Really?
[01:22:32]  Yes.
[01:22:33]  Well, then it's definitely going to be you that's going to be longer at this than myself.
[01:22:38]  Oh, I'll inspire you, so you stay with it.
[01:22:41]  Man, you'll have to kick my butt.
[01:22:44]  My idea of a wonderful afternoon is not spending an entire afternoon signing books, and that's what I do.
[01:22:50]  Anyway, were you able to get on my site?
[01:22:54]  My beautiful wife was standing at the top of the stairs.
[01:22:57]  She was holding it in her hand.
[01:22:59]  Oh, thank you, Sherry.
[01:23:00]  And she said to give love to you and Ramona.
[01:23:03]  Thank you.
[01:23:04]  And it is a most wonderful photograph.
[01:23:08]  Again, a 19-year-old serviceman took this just trying to get a shot of Fuji.
[01:23:13]  You know, you sit there.
[01:23:14]  I did that too when I was in service, and I was flying around a lot for the first time.
[01:23:18]  Boy, you just use up a lot of film, which usually comes out to a lot of not much of anything from about 38,000 feet.
[01:23:26]  But you know, Brad, I mean, you look at this, and this is one of two things.
[01:23:33]  It's either an ingenious fraud and fake.
[01:23:36]  And by the way, again, I'll hold it up for the webcam here in a while.
[01:23:40]  I've got the original photograph.
[01:23:43]  I scanned this myself during the last news break, not this last one, but the prior one, and sent it to Keith that fast.
[01:23:52]  Thank goodness for the web.
[01:23:54]  And there it is.
[01:23:55]  Now, I don't know.
[01:23:59]  You have a printout of it?
[01:24:01]  Yes.
[01:24:02]  I'm not sure if your printout did it justice, but when you're looking at the signal.
[01:24:06]  Well, I came into her office and I looked on the screen.
[01:24:09]  And you looked on the screen, too.
[01:24:11]  Okay.
[01:24:12]  There is form.
[01:24:14]  There is feature.
[01:24:17]  There is a face.
[01:24:18]  There is hair.
[01:24:20]  There are outstretched arms or that's the significant part, the outstretched arms, I think.
[01:24:26]  I mean, it's just astounding.
[01:24:28]  Now, again, I'll caution everybody.
[01:24:31]  Of course, this could be some kind of fraud, but I don't think so.
[01:24:39]  Sorry, Park, go ahead.
[01:24:40]  No, look, anytime, just leap in.
[01:24:43]  I mean, I'm saying the same things over and over again.
[01:24:46]  Well, what I wanted to say in regard to this, you mentioned that it had been their personal treasure.
[01:24:53]  Yes, sir.
[01:24:55]  The pictures that are sent to me, again, people are not looking for any financial reward or any particular fame or notoriety.
[01:25:03]  That's right.
[01:25:04]  They say things like, this was our personal proof of survival.
[01:25:10]  Because here's a picture of, in one case, someone's sister who died when she was five years old.
[01:25:17]  No pictures were taken because this was an old tin type and the picture showed up.
[01:25:24]  I mean, I get pictures like that.
[01:25:27]  Pictures, I got the outstretched hand.
[01:25:31]  I managed, oh, a very circuitous route.
[01:25:36]  A policeman friend whose wife was a telephone operator heard on the party line about this ghost picture that was taken.
[01:25:45]  I managed to get a copy.
[01:25:46]  I told the people I'd protect their identity.
[01:25:51]  But it was the most incredible helping hand, a hand that had been literally, they'd seen it floating around in their house.
[01:26:00]  They managed finally to get a picture of it through really accidental.
[01:26:03]  I won't go into that now.
[01:26:04]  But what I did with that picture art, I blew it up so it was life size, and I sent it to a palmist in California who I really respected, her ability to read palms.
[01:26:18]  I didn't say, I mean, I made it sound like it was an ordinary situation.
[01:26:24]  I didn't say it was the hand of a ghost or the hand of whatever.
[01:26:27]  And she could read the lines because it was that clear.
[01:26:31]  Wow.
[01:26:31]  And her, she sent me like a 12-page analysis, but the essence of it was whoever owned this hand, she said, was a very compassionate, a very benevolent individual, a being, a person, rather, who was asexual.
[01:26:53]  Asexual.
[01:26:54]  You're right.
[01:26:55]  Asexual, benevolent, compassionate.
[01:26:58]  Asexual.
[01:26:59]  Said probably someone who was in social work or religious service.
[01:27:04]  And I thought, if that doesn't sound like the palm of an angel, I don't know what does.
[01:27:09]  Right.
[01:27:10]  Oh, exactly right.
[01:27:12]  Yeah.
[01:27:13]  Asexual, compassionate, benevolent, concerned with service to others.
[01:27:22]  And I say it was like a 12-page report, but those things just jumped out.
[01:27:27]  Well, who can say?
[01:27:29]  Who can say, but these photographs are astounding.
[01:27:34]  They're beautiful.
[01:27:35]  Yes, no.
[01:27:36]  It's not the one I thought.
[01:27:38]  That was given to me by someone else, and it was their personal photography.
[01:27:41]  So this was the first time you've seen this.
[01:27:43]  Yes.
[01:27:44]  First time for me, too.
[01:27:46]  I was very improper for interrupting you, saying, oh, I had seen that.
[01:27:51]  Forgive me.
[01:27:51]  But I thought you were going to describe one that I had seen.
[01:27:55]  That was that family's personal proof of angels or a sign of the divine in their life.
[01:28:08]  Well, if this is just a cloud formation, this is easily the most synchronistic cloud formation I've ever seen in my whole life.
[01:28:16]  And may we have many more.
[01:28:18]  And may we have many more.
[01:28:19]  Now, here's the only thing that really drives me up a tree about discussion of angelic presence.
[01:28:30]  The people who were in that automobile walked away without a scratch.
[01:28:35]  We see what may well be an angel in that photograph.
[01:28:41]  So then, what about most car wrecks where little children are flung through windows and 60 feet down the highway and nothing but pulp?
[01:28:58]  I mean, where people are innocents and very young people die without any intervention whatsoever.
[01:29:07]  How are we to reconcile this if there is angelic protection?
[01:29:13]  Why, Brad, is it so spotty?
[01:29:18]  The only explanation that has ever made sense to me, because I have wrestled with this, we've talked about this.
[01:29:27]  We sure have.
[01:29:28]  And we both come from that same evangelical Lutheran background.
[01:29:32]  Yes.
[01:29:34]  My wife is an ordained minister.
[01:29:38]  And the only thing that makes sense to me is reincarnation as a divine plan of giving people an opportunity to progress, to have had a soul experience for a particular reason, for a particular purpose.
[01:29:58]  It is the most just balancing of soul energy, in my opinion.
[01:30:05]  And of course, it is a worldwide belief.
[01:30:09]  We know when I get into arguments, and I never like to argue, but discuss with my evangelical friends.
[01:30:19]  I like to point out that it was at the Council of Nicaea, 323 A.D., that reincarnation only lost by three votes.
[01:30:29]  They voted on it.
[01:30:30]  Or we wouldn't be having the discussion or the debate.
[01:30:34]  It would be a part of Orthodox teachings.
[01:30:39]  All right, then let's consider the little child that with her parents is instantly killed, the eight-month-old, who is instantly killed in a car wreck.
[01:30:49]  Tell me how that is explained by the concept of reincarnation, which, by the way, as you well know, I lean toward myself.
[01:30:59]  This would be an opportunity to have a lifetime which would be briefly passed for the sole purpose of undergoing a particular experience that then lent or developed and increased that person's soul growth and hastened then the movement toward the light and toward another possible incarnation.
[01:31:27]  Or perhaps this may have been that entity's last incarnation.
[01:31:35]  The person had lived a devout and holy life in the life before, and this time came back for only a brief time.
[01:31:44]  Didn't have the karma to work off.
[01:31:46]  Didn't have the karma to work off.
[01:31:49]  But see, that suggests that what we are living in when we are here, living out long lives, in the case that we have lots of karma to work out, and we're sort of in a semi-hellish place doing that.
[01:32:05]  You might say it's the equivalent of a long prison sentence versus release on own recognizance or something.
[01:32:16]  I don't know what a good parallel is.
[01:32:19]  No, no.
[01:32:19]  And again, we're not choosing deep, heavy theological terms.
[01:32:23]  We're speaking in layman's ordinary language here, and that's a good description of what we're in.
[01:32:29]  Sherry and I like to think of this as schoolhouse earth.
[01:32:34]  And we're not all at the same level.
[01:32:37]  Some of us are in kindergarten.
[01:32:38]  Some of us are in graduate school.
[01:32:40]  You're sounding a little like Bowen Pete now.
[01:32:42]  Oh, I hope not.

=== Tense Time, Discernment Needed (03:28) ===

[01:32:46]  No, no.
[01:32:47]  Schoolhouse Earth.
[01:32:48]  Seriously.
[01:32:49]  You remember their words about graduation and so forth?
[01:32:51]  I do.
[01:32:52]  Listen, I sat for hours and talked to them.
[01:32:55]  They were charming, dear, sweet people when I knew them.
[01:33:00]  And they, of course, took Christianity, metaphysics, Eastern religions, astrology, and gave it their own spin.
[01:33:13]  Sure.
[01:33:14]  So, of course, some of what the minister on Sunday, I said you asked what I said to Dead Coppel.
[01:33:21]  One of the things I said was, because this happened to be Easter weekend, if you will remember.
[01:33:27]  Oh, yes, I remember.
[01:33:28]  I said, and this was on Easter Sunday, maybe it was to Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts, I said it, that one could stand up, as it was, I said it on Easter morning, one could stand up in any Orthodox Christian church on Easter morning and say a great deal of their precepts, and everyone would agree.
[01:33:54]  It's just when they took that next step.
[01:33:57]  Well, let me give you another really good parallel.
[01:34:01]  The Unibomber.
[01:34:03]  The Unibomber was a really horrid little guy who sent bombs to people, computer-type people, people who he viewed as ecologically unfriendly.
[01:34:15]  He sent them bombs in the mail.
[01:34:16]  And he wrote a manifesto.
[01:34:19]  And if you separate the Unibomber's deeds from his words in the manifesto, reading the manifesto, which I have, an awful lot of it rings absolutely true.
[01:34:33]  It was just his methods of getting the word out that lacked a bit of finesse.
[01:34:39]  I'm going to have to quote my minister wife, who says that we are living in a time of discernment.
[01:34:47]  We will have all of these half-truths and partial truths and truths that sound and seem to resound with great clarity, but we must pray for the discernment to discern what these people are really talking about.
[01:35:04]  When we must have the discipline to apply ourselves to have that discernment so that we don't gullibly accept the various others.
[01:35:13]  Because we're in a very tense time right now.
[01:35:18]  Tense time?
[01:35:20]  There is an understatement for you.
[01:35:22]  Well, of course it is, and you know me.
[01:35:24]  Brad.
[01:35:26]  I am telling you right now, I have never in my life.
[01:35:29]  I told a story.
[01:35:30]  Did you happen to hear the contrail story I told?
[01:35:33]  No.
[01:35:33]  Oh, no, good.
[01:35:35]  I'll relate that.
[01:35:36]  But listen, I'm getting dozens of faxes every day saying, hey, Art, how come it's so warm here?
[01:35:45]  Hey, Art, how come the geese are flying north instead of south?
[01:35:49]  Hey, Art, how come we can't see the whales this year?
[01:35:53]  Right.
[01:35:53]  And on and on and on and on.
[01:35:56]  Ecologically, Brad, I'm telling you, we're in deep doo-doo.

=== Time of Discernment (04:42) ===

[01:36:01]  Why was it here right where I'm sitting?
[01:36:04]  Why was it almost 70 degrees the day before yesterday?
[01:36:08]  And today we have a windshield factor of 20 below.
[01:36:10]  I don't know.
[01:36:11]  I don't know.
[01:36:12]  That's another one I'm getting.
[01:36:13]  I've got faxes about the weather you wouldn't believe.
[01:36:16]  Oh, I know.
[01:36:17]  Now, I don't think there's any question about the weather changing anymore.
[01:36:21]  Whether it's a short change or a profound long-term change is the only argument worth having.
[01:36:27]  Not anymore whether or not it's changing because we're right in the middle of it.
[01:36:32]  So it is, on all levels, a time of discernment.
[01:36:36]  We really, you know, in terms of Judgment Day, well, I believe Judgment Day is every day.
[01:36:43]  And I think that's the way we should, as much as we possibly can, live our lives.
[01:36:48]  All right, hold it right there.
[01:36:49]  We're at the bottom of the hour.
[01:36:50]  If you want to see the photographs we're talking about, go to my website right now.
[01:36:54]  This one, this newest one up about a half hour ago, it'll blow your socks right off.
[01:37:00]  Or you'll scoff at it, one of the two.
[01:37:02]  Either way, it's a real wizard.
[01:37:04]  We'll be right back.
[01:37:05]  You are listening to Ark Bell somewhere in time.
[01:37:09]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[01:37:41]  Art Bell, somewhere in time.
[01:37:44]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[01:37:49]  Yeah, they voted reincarnation out.
[01:37:52]  I'll fly a starship across the universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit, if I can.
[01:38:09]  Perhaps I may become a highwayman again, Or I may simply be a single drop of rain.
[01:38:19]  I just can't resist whenever this subject comes up, this song to me says it all.
[01:38:24]  I'll be back again and we we will be right back.
[01:38:55]  Welcome back, Brad.
[01:38:56]  Thank you.
[01:38:57]  I love that Highwayman, one of my favorites.
[01:39:01]  Young, it's impossible to play my favorites.
[01:39:04]  You play Lorena, you play Moody Blues, you play Cindy Lauper, time after time.
[01:39:09]  It's like you do tune in on my brainwaves.
[01:39:12]  What I do is number one.
[01:39:14]  I pick all the music that I love selfishly and I don't play anything I don't like and I add to my collection slowly and I've done that slowly over the years songs that really mean something to me, and so then I try and pick.
[01:39:26]  Obviously, you know a moment will suggest a particular piece.
[01:39:31]  That's all simple, and since I do it I don't have an engineer, don't want one I can do it all myself and put it together that way.
[01:39:38]  It comes together a lot better that way, I think.
[01:39:39]  But well, I do too anyway.
[01:39:43]  So I guess we've covered angels, but I'm, I'm so fascinated with them.
[01:39:49]  There's one other little thing, during this last break Brad, this has now happened to me total of about three times since I've been on the air.
[01:39:59]  I have a speaker which is affixed to the desk in front of me which, on top of that speaker, has a camera which I use for my webcam right, and it all came crashing down during this last break.
[01:40:15]  At other times I've had my door crashed, I've had things happen to me and and inevitably Brad, it it scares the hell out of me.
[01:40:23]  Number one, and number two, it provokes me into thinking that, because I'm sitting here discussing the kinds of things that you and I are discussing right now, it's some kind of a stupid sign.

=== Strange Device Found (14:47) ===

[01:40:36]  I mean, there is no reason for this thing.
[01:40:38]  It's impossible for it to have done what it just did.
[01:40:42]  And yet it did it, and I spent all my last break trying to retrieve it from the floor and reset it.
[01:40:47]  An entire speaker and camera system went to the floor just for no reason whatsoever.
[01:40:53]  Maybe something, maybe nothing, I don't know.
[01:40:56]  I'm I'm, I'm really confused because Brad, I'm telling you I'm actually skeptical people don't think of me as skeptical because I allow ideas to be presented on the radio without a 60-minutes type interrogation of those who present the ideas.
[01:41:14]  So they then translate that to mean that I believe in everything that I am told, which is absolutely untrue.
[01:41:22]  Nevertheless, I'm beginning to find all of this a little challenging.
[01:41:27]  Now, all of this was held down by those Velcro strips.
[01:41:32]  I mean, there's no way it could have come loose, and yet it's like someone took a hand and slapped it all down.
[01:41:38]  I did nothing at all.
[01:41:40]  Just as I closed the mic, it all went down.
[01:41:43]  It freaks me out, Brad.
[01:41:45]  Well, and it can be signs, not to make you freak out even more.
[01:41:50]  It can be coincidence.
[01:41:51]  But by the same token, I remember a couple times when we've done shows where something like this has happened.
[01:41:57]  So can I.
[01:41:58]  So I hope it is not I that's doing it to you.
[01:42:02]  Well, I'm not close to that possibility, Brad.
[01:42:06]  I'm really not.
[01:42:08]  I'm sitting here trying to get this damn camera adjusted now.
[01:42:11]  I think I told maybe I didn't.
[01:42:13]  I'll just tell it quickly because I don't like to be redundant.
[01:42:17]  But I think I told you the time some years ago where I was working with a poltergeist case, and the people called me.
[01:42:26]  We thought we had done away with it.
[01:42:29]  And this was, oh, I was now back in my office, and we're talking, oh, that's at least 1,500 miles away.
[01:42:37]  But through the phone line, I could hear the thumps and the people screaming, and the poltergeist was throwing things around and upsetting things.
[01:42:47]  So again, I spoke in a great kind of exorcist kind of voice and tried to.
[01:42:54]  And they said, oh, you've dissipated the energy.
[01:42:58]  And I'm feeling very satisfied with myself.
[01:43:01]  And I had no more than hung up the phone.
[01:43:05]  And books started flying off my shelves.
[01:43:08]  And my office wall cracked like someone had taken a sledgehammer.
[01:43:14]  And there was actually a large crack.
[01:43:16]  I mean, it made that.
[01:43:18]  Whatever this energy is, it followed the phone line to my office over 1,500 miles away.
[01:43:27]  I think that it is a mere consideration, an honest, legitimate intellectual consideration of these things that allows them in.
[01:43:37]  I swear, Brad, I do.
[01:43:39]  If you look at, for example, the Ouija board, to me, the Ouija board is A, pretty scary, but B, just a conduit is sort of like opening a door.
[01:43:50]  It's a conduit, and when you start using a Ouija board, you, not the board, are in a state of mind that allows whatever it is, good, bad, indifferent, to come through.
[01:44:03]  I totally agree, and conduit is the same term I use.
[01:44:08]  The Ouija board, that's why I warn people, this is not a child's game.
[01:44:15]  When we talk about any of this or playing seance on your slumber party, these things are not games.
[01:44:24]  These things are real.
[01:44:25]  But even as we talk, Brad.
[01:44:27]  Of course.
[01:44:28]  I'm not sure that what we're doing right now is all that different.
[01:44:32]  Because as we consider these things intellectually as possible, I think we allow for them.
[01:44:38]  I think we allow for them and we open ourselves to them now.
[01:44:41]  There's no question.
[01:44:42]  And each time we do a show, And I'm sure you do too.
[01:44:48]  But I'll get as many as six to eight hundred letters from just dear, wonderful people who say the kindest things, but many of them will describe a similar manifestation that occurred to them while they were listening to us.
[01:45:04]  An unexplained.
[01:45:06]  Well, see, that backs me up.
[01:45:08]  That backs me up.
[01:45:10]  You begin thinking about this.
[01:45:11]  You think about it seriously, not as a joke, not as a kicker at the end of a newscast.
[01:45:15]  You really start to consider it, and boom, there you are.
[01:45:20]  People talk about glasses breaking, exploding while they're listening to us and so forth.
[01:45:25]  So it is an energy.
[01:45:27]  It is an energy that we must take seriously.
[01:45:33]  I agree.
[01:45:34]  Respectfully.
[01:45:36]  Let me move us to one other area for a specific reason.
[01:45:40]  In the source.
[01:45:42]  You don't want anything else to fall in here.
[01:45:44]  Well, that's one good reason.
[01:45:46]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:45:48]  You know, I just, I don't handle these things well, Brad.
[01:45:51]  I really don't.
[01:45:52]  You handle them much.
[01:45:53]  You've been in situations that you have described on this program, encounters with entities, that, Brad, if I had been you, I would have either wet my pants or I'd still be running now.
[01:46:11]  I mean, I don't handle these things very well.
[01:46:13]  I'm fascinated by them, but I don't handle them well when they happen to me.
[01:46:17]  Now, a safer, somewhat safer subject, the mysteries of where we all came from, of our human origins.
[01:46:25]  Down in Florida, in Miami right now, this developer is getting ready to concrete over this.
[01:46:35]  They found this incredible circle.
[01:46:38]  Exactly.
[01:46:38]  Oh, you know about it.
[01:46:39]  Well, I think it was first mentioned nearly a year ago, I think, when they unearthed it.
[01:46:48]  But it was not at that time a national story.
[01:46:51]  No, no, no.
[01:46:52]  And it was just, they weren't really sure what it was.
[01:46:56]  Here again, I have wonderful people that send me clippings from all over.
[01:47:02]  This is an if you look at it and you compare it to Stonehenge, for example, it's almost a precise match.
[01:47:12]  It's almost a precise match.
[01:47:17]  And now they found something else, some sort of vertical shaft.
[01:47:22]  Now, you bear in mind that down there, the water tables are two or three feet.
[01:47:26]  I mean, it's really close.
[01:47:27]  They found a vertical shaft that goes down 30 feet.
[01:47:31]  Now, how can that be?
[01:47:34]  30 feet into what?
[01:47:36]  Well, that's a very good question.
[01:47:39]  Should be filled with water.
[01:47:41]  Worlds upon worlds there were before Adam was.
[01:47:45]  And here we are on the eve almost.
[01:47:49]  I mean, the 26th, or it could be between now and the 26th, or in the middle of the night, for all we know.
[01:47:55]  And the developer may or may not move it.
[01:47:58]  He's offered to move it.
[01:47:59]  I don't know if it'll end up being moved, and I don't know that it should be moved.
[01:48:03]  That's a tough call.
[01:48:04]  It's a tough call, all right.
[01:48:07]  Without time to study it, Brad, and to find out what it is, how in God's name are we going to find out where we came from?
[01:48:19]  Well, as so often happens, these sites get destroyed or reburied under tons and tons of rock, so we can't.
[01:48:28]  And I'm not really a paranoid kind of person, but sometimes it seems as though there are those that don't want us to really understand the truth of our origins.
[01:48:42]  Here, here.
[01:48:44]  I agree with you completely.
[01:48:46]  Now, in this case, I think it's mainly driven by $100 million project, which is being held up.
[01:48:51]  I mean, that's no small matter.
[01:48:54]  But I really do agree with you.
[01:48:55]  I think that the religious institutions of the world would have a great concern if there were a discovery which seemed to definitively suggest that it didn't all happen exactly as they have explained to us.
[01:49:16]  Yes.
[01:49:19]  You know, the situation in Washington state at this time where first they argued, was this a trapper?
[01:49:27]  Was this a Native American?
[01:49:30]  And then it was determined that it was much older and that it was Caucasian.
[01:49:37]  Now, again, I felt somewhat vindicated because in my books for years I've been saying that there was a prior civilization, Caucasoid, on this continent.
[01:49:48]  Right.
[01:49:49]  And there are skeletal remains, which I have designated all over the United States, especially in the southwest.
[01:49:56]  All of this is covered, by the way, in the source, folks.
[01:49:59]  Yes, it is.
[01:49:59]  Yes, it is.
[01:50:01]  Now, I, of course, and I think the situation there, because the Army Corps of Engineers just covered everything again under tons and tons and tons of rock and gravel to avoid having what they said a political incident.
[01:50:18]  Now, I've said before, and I've said to my Native American friends, because I have been adopted by the Seneca, I'm Wolf Clan Seneca, I'm married to a Swedish Chippewa, and our concern, we support many, many Native American charities.
[01:50:42]  The Native Americans will always be the Aboriginal people of record.
[01:50:47]  That's right.
[01:50:47]  So there is no threat to any government services or any position being threatened.
[01:50:56]  So I hope that that will never inhibit our learning the truth of who we are, what this continent was.
[01:51:07]  Like I said years ago in my book, Atlantis Rising, Atlantis may well have been a civilization on North America.
[01:51:17]  Atlantis may well be the circle in Miami.
[01:51:20]  Of course.
[01:51:21]  Of course.
[01:51:22]  And how can we even think about wiping it out until we study it?
[01:51:27]  I mean, how can we even contemplate doing that?
[01:51:30]  I just don't understand.
[01:51:32]  I'm with you.
[01:51:33]  I don't want to appear paranoid, but it sure does look like a lot of somebody's out there don't want us to know.
[01:51:40]  Well, are you familiar with a book called Forbidden Archaeology?
[01:51:45]  Yes.
[01:51:46]  There are endless examples in that book of archaeological finds, Brad, that legit mainstream archaeologists have come upon, submitted, and because it doesn't fit into somebody's paradigm, whatever it is, the physical object that proves something, is actually put on a shelf where it gathers dust and is never considered because it challenges somebody's cherished little paradigm.
[01:52:16]  Exactly.
[01:52:17]  And paradigm is the word.
[01:52:18]  Now, Michael Cramo presented me with a copy of the book.
[01:52:21]  He was kind enough to quote my mysteries of time and space and worlds before our own and actually give me credit, which I thank him for.
[01:52:29]  But I said in those books, exactly the same thing, which we repeat with another theme in the source.
[01:52:36]  Exactly.
[01:52:37]  Is that it is threatening.
[01:52:41]  And this is in the source.
[01:52:42]  We get into this as well.
[01:52:44]  That if you cannot find an entire strata, if you cannot find a tire civilization to go with an out-of-place anomaly or artifact, and we must understand this, the sciences of archaeology, anthropology cannot give them credence.
[01:53:04]  They are literally the artifacts of the damned.
[01:53:07]  The artifacts of the damned.
[01:53:08]  And in a lot of cases, as Michael has said on this program, the archaeologists who have stood their ground, Brad, have been drummed out, haven't been able to get any grants, are suddenly pariahs.
[01:53:26]  I had a dear, dear, I've told you this before, I'm a frustrated amateur archaeologist, but I had a dear professional archaeologist friend who was so open and provided me with so much information.
[01:53:40]  And every time I would present him with an anomaly, he would top me of one that had been found in an Orthodox dig, but he couldn't say anything about.
[01:53:49]  And he met a very early and I thought kind of mysterious device.
[01:53:55]  And I mourn his passing because, you know, it's so wonderful to have someone who's working in the Orthodox sciences and yet has an open mind to explore, not to close things out, to admit that we do not know the truth of our origins.
[01:54:14]  I'm excited to see, as we include it in the source, that now, instead of just going through Ostropithecus and Croan Yan and Neanderthal and Homo havalus and so forth, now they're bold enough to finally admit that there may have been 20 pre-hominid species before we got Homo sapiens.
[01:54:37]  A movie like A Search for Fire, where it showed all these kind of hominid civilizations that everyone said, oh, poo-poo, there was only Neanderthal, there was only.
[01:54:48]  No, I mean, we may have had all kinds, and we, maybe because we had a bigger brain, or maybe we were lucky, or maybe we got some help from somewhere else, we are the species of choice.

=== Steps To Awareness (15:21) ===

[01:55:00]  Maybe all of the above.
[01:55:01]  And maybe all of the above.
[01:55:03]  But we do cover these things in the source, and I am very, pardon me, proud of the book.
[01:55:10]  So am I.
[01:55:11]  So am I.
[01:55:12]  So am I, Brad.
[01:55:12]  All right, so there you have it, folks.
[01:55:14]  This is Premier Networks.
[01:55:16]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[01:55:33]  No my sailors pass the time on the way and talk about their homes.
[01:55:43]  When in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with leaves, somewhere in time with Art Bell continues.
[01:55:55]  Courtesy of Premier Networks.
[01:55:58]  The etheric, angelic voice of Lorena McKenna.
[01:56:08]  Some nights I just can't pull myself away from the music.
[01:56:12]  And we'll talk about that too this hour.
[01:56:14]  The music.
[01:56:51]  Okay, here once again is Brad Steiger.
[01:56:54]  Brad, welcome back.
[01:56:56]  Thank you.
[01:56:56]  And may I say, please, when people send something, would they please enclose a stamp self-addressed?
[01:57:06]  And I will then include my questionnaire, my survey, and other information, which I think they may find of interest.
[01:57:13]  All right.
[01:57:15]  I sort of headlined it as we came into the hour, but we have this incredible two-hour hellish experience from a young lady, a young girl, on her way home from voluntary church work, that kind of thing.
[01:57:31]  And then we have Dan, who goes not once, but several times to a really cool place.
[01:57:38]  And while there are some negative aspects of his life review, because he had a pretty negative life, he still goes to the light, the good place.
[01:57:46]  How do you reconcile that, or do you even try?
[01:57:50]  Well, it's very difficult.
[01:57:51]  Anything I would say, of course, would only be my personal response.
[01:57:55]  I'll have to listen to Sarah's complete.
[01:58:00]  But, of course, from time to time, people do send me their reports.
[01:58:04]  That's one of the things on the questionnaire.
[01:58:06]  People write, you know, the near-death experience is covered, and people have sent me hundreds of them, thousands of them over the years.
[01:58:15]  And most of them are positive.
[01:58:17]  There are a few that do have the very frightening experience.
[01:58:22]  Again, I have to look on all these as teaching experiences and individual mystical experiences that reflect what the person is going through at the time or what the person needs to see, needs to be aware of at the time.
[01:58:41]  And that's my opinion after having written now, I guess, four books on out-of-body experience, near-death experiences, and receiving them from people from all walks of life and nearly every country.
[01:58:58]  I think, again, it's the individual mystical experience.
[01:59:01]  I don't think the near-death experience is the be-all and end-all.
[01:59:06]  I think it is the beginning of awareness.
[01:59:08]  I think it's probably the first step in awareness.
[01:59:12]  And in Danny's case, Daniel's case, I think it's definitely the prime motivator.
[01:59:19]  It was the accelerator.
[01:59:21]  It took this scoundrel's life and turned it around.
[01:59:26]  To become a semi-scoundrel.
[01:59:29]  Well, I said rascal, and I think that fits.
[01:59:34]  Did you ever see the movie about him with Eric Roberts?
[01:59:39]  Yes.
[01:59:41]  By the way, on a South Park episode, they cannibalized Eric Roberts.
[01:59:45]  It was terrible.
[01:59:47]  They were all stuck in a snow zone.
[01:59:49]  Do you ever see South Park?
[01:59:50]  No, we don't get Comedy Central.
[01:59:52]  I see.
[01:59:54]  But I know of it, of course.
[01:59:55]  Every time you come visit, I'm going to subject you to it.
[01:59:58]  Great.
[01:59:58]  Totally irreverent.
[02:00:00]  Great.
[02:00:00]  But great.
[02:00:02]  All right.
[02:00:02]  Well, let's go back to the phones.
[02:00:04]  A lot of people want to talk to you.
[02:00:05]  First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
[02:00:07]  Hi there.
[02:00:08]  Good evening, fellas.
[02:00:10]  Where are you, sir?
[02:00:11]  I am in Fayetteville, Arkansas, middle of the Bible Bill here.
[02:00:14]  All right.
[02:00:15]  I've got a couple questions here.
[02:00:16]  The first one has to go to both of you.
[02:00:20]  I would like to know your opinions on how to get to heaven.
[02:00:25]  Is it a destination or a state of mind?
[02:00:28]  And my second question is.
[02:00:30]  Well, that's too big a question to just pause and let us is it a destination or a state of mind?
[02:00:38]  Brad?
[02:00:42]  To me, heaven is a dimension that's all around us, ever-present, ever-near.
[02:00:49]  And if you want to get there, you better have a very positive state of mind.
[02:00:55]  To me, heaven is very much as you describe.
[02:00:59]  I think that the movie What Dreams May Come may say it quite well for me.
[02:01:07]  I think that we are our own judges in the end, and I think we end up where we put ourselves.
[02:01:15]  That's the best I can do, Color.
[02:01:16]  Anything else?
[02:01:17]  I have the same philosophy, Art.
[02:01:20]  Yes.
[02:01:20]  Okay, and something you said earlier, you were quoting comments by young people about the year 2000 problem.
[02:01:27]  Yeah, I've got them right here, by the way.
[02:01:29]  Okay, good.
[02:01:30]  I just wanted to let you know, you know, not all of us are not that unaware.
[02:01:34]  I'm 19 myself, and I live and support myself, apparently.
[02:01:39]  Good for you.
[02:01:40]  And the problem I have is, I mean, I hear you have recommendations for this stored food stuff and stuff like that.
[02:01:50]  And my problem is someone like me, in my position, I can't afford to prepare.
[02:01:56]  You know, I know this stuff is coming, but I can't afford.
[02:01:59]  Yes, you can.
[02:02:00]  And even J. Michael Stevens says, look, if you can't afford to buy their stored food, then go out and do basics like get rice, get other things that you can store.
[02:02:12]  There are things, steps you can take your own, on your own.
[02:02:15]  And so if you can't afford to buy the fancy stored food, which is a nice way to go with 10-year shelf-life, then at least do the simple stuff just to get ready for a period of time of disruption.
[02:02:29]  And just do it a little at a time.
[02:02:31]  Yeah.
[02:02:31]  Yeah.
[02:02:32]  I don't have much time left, apparently.
[02:02:34]  Well, in that case, you better get started.
[02:02:39]  Right?
[02:02:40]  I'm bad about that.
[02:02:41]  I'm kind of lazy.
[02:02:43]  Well, in that case, what will you do when you run out of food?
[02:02:48]  Just curious.
[02:02:49]  I have no idea.
[02:02:50]  Chew on my legs.
[02:02:51]  Sit on your couch.
[02:02:52]  Chew on your leg.
[02:02:56]  When you get to that point, you be sure and call me if we have phones working, all right?
[02:02:59]  Oh, sure.
[02:03:00]  You know, if you want a bite, you know, I'm well-toned.
[02:03:05]  Thanks for the call, sir.
[02:03:07]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Brad Seiger and Art Bell.
[02:03:09]  Hi.
[02:03:10]  Is that me, Art?
[02:03:11]  Yes, it sounds like.
[02:03:13]  My name is Celine.
[02:03:14]  I'm calling from Walnut Creek, California.
[02:03:16]  Wonderful.
[02:03:17]  First, I'd like to say you have a wonderful wife if she's up with you these hours and assisting you.
[02:03:22]  I have to say thank you to her for all of us who are listening.
[02:03:25]  How kind of you.
[02:03:26]  She is Ramona, and you're exactly right.
[02:03:28]  She's with me every minute.
[02:03:31]  You found the right partner, evidently.
[02:03:32]  That's facts.
[02:03:33]  That's a whole nother subject, too, by the way.
[02:03:36]  I'd also like to thank my father, who lives in Nevada and has been an avid listener of yours for years and who introduced me to you, which is these days probably the best thing a parent could do to their child.
[02:03:46]  I'm 39 and he's quite older, but nonetheless, let me tell you what happened.
[02:03:52]  Oh, one thing I'd like to interject.
[02:03:54]  I remember once you had Dr. Michael Newton on, and I subsequently picked up his book and read it.
[02:04:01]  And one question you had was, I'd sure like to know what the timeframe is for reincarnation.
[02:04:09]  That's right.
[02:04:09]  And I have consulted with someone who his name is Nickno Serino.
[02:04:15]  Okay, let me clarify that question just a little bit.
[02:04:18]  I want to understand from our reference of time, linear time here on Earth, What kind of span of time is involved?
[02:04:26]  Because I think when you're there, there is no time.
[02:04:30]  Yes, but let me tell you what.
[02:04:32]  This man has done clinical research on AIDS patients and all sorts of things where he's done everything from hypnotherapy with them.
[02:04:44]  He also was Dale Walker's teacher, just so you know.
[02:04:49]  I know Nick very well.
[02:04:50]  He's one of my dearest buddies.
[02:04:51]  He's tremendous.
[02:04:53]  And he has, even in his studies, if you can get this, they quantified the weight of the soul.
[02:05:00]  And that's to say that when you go to sleep consistently from patient to patient, the body elevated or lightened up by, I think it was two grams.
[02:05:12]  Do you know where I could get that?
[02:05:13]  Well, yeah, your friend, I mean, Brad knows him.
[02:05:17]  Yeah.
[02:05:18]  And in my book, Returning from the Light, I have Nick's own past life experience.
[02:05:24]  Yeah, he's in the process of writing about three books.
[02:05:27]  And I went just to have an aura reading and work on a few things.
[02:05:31]  He lives here in the Bay Area.
[02:05:34]  And I asked him these questions.
[02:05:36]  This is before I even heard your show.
[02:05:37]  So when it came up, I tried to call in, but of course the lines were so busy.
[02:05:41]  At any rate, I said, well, what is the ordinary reincarnation span?
[02:05:46]  He said, well, what I found out in my experience was that it's generally, if you do not change cultures, it's generally two years these days.
[02:05:56]  If you change cultures, you actually hang out and acclimate, and it's about five years just to get up to speed through the complexity of what you have to learn and comply with.
[02:06:12]  Prepare for a prompt.
[02:06:13]  Right, exactly.
[02:06:14]  The preparation involved.
[02:06:16]  And then he had also done a lot of work with gay folks.
[02:06:21]  And in his work, he found out that, and this is by no means conclusive, but was his take on it.
[02:06:29]  And I think it's pretty interesting.
[02:06:31]  He said that a lot of these people, so you can imagine cross-dressers and confusion that folks like that have.
[02:06:39]  He said they'd really take the first body that comes around irrespective of sex.
[02:06:44]  And so that was interesting, too.
[02:06:46]  That is interesting.
[02:06:48]  Both are interesting, and I would like to cover both.
[02:06:52]  Now, first of all, with regard to the soul, for a long time, Brad, it was kind of like almost an urban legend that there had been a real honest to goodness medical study that documented loss of weight at the moment of death.
[02:07:10]  And I hunted Brad for years.
[02:07:14]  And finally, I said something on the air, and somebody, I'll be doggone if they didn't send me the study.
[02:07:19]  It was done in the late 1800s.
[02:07:22]  Can't do that kind of thing now.
[02:07:23]  And they were very careful.
[02:07:26]  It's well written up.
[02:07:27]  I could actually put it up on the website any moment now because I have it.
[02:07:31]  Keith has it.
[02:07:32]  And it documented a portion of an ounce of loss at the instant of death in every human studied and no loss whatsoever when animals passed away, which rubs against a little bit of the grain of what I personally believe about animals.
[02:07:51]  But nevertheless, I found it incredibly fascinating.
[02:07:55]  And here's a lady talking about a slight reduction during sleep.
[02:08:02]  And we all know about OBEs.
[02:08:05]  So it's kind of interesting.
[02:08:07]  Well, it's fascinating.
[02:08:08]  There's a lot of good research going on.
[02:08:10]  Like I say, I've known Nick for many, many years, and he certainly does fine research.
[02:08:17]  He sent me the most astonishing collection of ghost photographs that he's taken.
[02:08:22]  It's just fabulous.
[02:08:24]  He's always been cooperative.
[02:08:25]  He's always been a good friend to me.
[02:08:28]  When we talk about past lives and time, again, studies will vary.
[02:08:35]  We did studies in the 60s, and the subjects we worked with there, we seem to find an average of 80 years, and then someone will say 200.
[02:08:45]  And I think these are very individual things, and one certainly cannot speak dogmatically.
[02:08:52]  But we're just, I mean, this is always the tip of the iceberg.
[02:08:57]  This is the challenge.
[02:08:59]  And the more people seriously and without an axe to grind and without belittling the works of others, and the more we contribute, the more we share, you know, the more we're going to learn.
[02:09:15]  Yeah, I guess that's all true.
[02:09:17]  I guess that's all true.
[02:09:19]  I just ever sit down and wonder where you are in that process, in the process of moving toward a more perfect being.
[02:09:29]  Are you early on in the process?
[02:09:31]  Are you midway?
[02:09:32]  Are you near graduation, going back to schoolhouse earth here?
[02:09:36]  Well, sometimes I look at me and I say, I wonder why God hasn't given up a long time ago.
[02:09:42]  I've had a couple near-death experiences.
[02:09:45]  And then I say, well, I guess the father, mother, creator, spirit realizes I'm a human being, but mostly I'm a human becoming.
[02:09:57]  I'm still in a work in progress.
[02:10:01]  Same here.
[02:10:01]  Here's the only problem I have with near-death experiences.

=== Near-Death Experiences (05:21) ===

[02:10:05]  They're only near-death.
[02:10:09]  They're near-death.
[02:10:10]  And one can imagine medical explanations for what people experience.
[02:10:16]  One can imagine that, unfortunately.
[02:10:20]  And now, if somebody were to come back after three days or a week, I'd want to have a long talk with them.
[02:10:30]  Yes, well, again, in my situation, of course, it's been said, and the doctor said, and so forth, that I died.
[02:10:40]  But obviously, I didn't die because I'm here.
[02:10:43]  But like they said, I was, you know, clinical death.
[02:10:48]  The way doctors measure it, yes.
[02:10:49]  Right.
[02:10:50]  It was not clinical death.
[02:10:51]  It just looked as though I had.
[02:10:54]  And certainly what I experienced, you know, was, well, we've talked about it, and I mentioned it in the book and go into it in quite some detail.
[02:11:06]  Right.
[02:11:07]  And that's something you're going to want to read about, too, folks.
[02:11:11]  Again, at the expense of seeming to toot our own horns, here it is, after all.
[02:11:18]  Having a book is like having a baby.
[02:11:20]  Yes, it is.
[02:11:21]  It's very much like that, actually.
[02:11:23]  And this is the birthday of our baby.
[02:11:29]  And you're proud, but yet you don't want to talk about it too much and seem too proud.
[02:11:34]  I know.
[02:11:34]  I know.
[02:11:35]  So as I said before, and I say it unabashedly, I'm very proud of the book.
[02:11:41]  I think it accomplishes a great deal that we set out to do.
[02:11:45]  And I think people are just going to be really excited by it.
[02:11:49]  And like I say, the response I've got from professional reviewers that as one person said, I can't get over it.
[02:11:56]  Every page has something new in it, some new fact.
[02:11:59]  And where did you guys get all that?
[02:12:02]  I think we'll both be interested to hear comments.
[02:12:06]  You always sort of sit back and you wait with a little nervous twitch.
[02:12:11]  So they'll be coming.
[02:12:12]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[02:12:14]  Hi.
[02:12:15]  Good evening, Brad.
[02:12:16]  Art.
[02:12:17]  Hi.
[02:12:18]  Yeah, Art.
[02:12:18]  About 10 years ago, I referenced a book because it was a clinical study by doctors Osus and Haroldson.
[02:12:25]  I think the title was at the hour of death.
[02:12:27]  Yes, sir.
[02:12:28]  Yes, sir.
[02:12:29]  I wonder if Brad ever crossed that book.
[02:12:32]  It was a study of 2,000 individuals, about half in this country in Canada, about half in Indian, I think.
[02:12:40]  Right, I quoted it in one of my books, sir.
[02:12:42]  And Carlos Olsus, of course, did some fabulous early research in it.
[02:12:47]  Yes, and you know, one of the things that was brought out in there that apparently in their study, now I've had NDEs too, and so and what I saw in there, that is reading the book.
[02:13:00]  In fact, I had to do a lot of reading myself after they happened, you know, back there.
[02:13:04]  It wasn't much discussed, but there were choices between good and evil.
[02:13:11]  And in consequence of whether or not apparently people were good and evil depended on who came to get them and spirits, you know, as they departed this life.
[02:13:23]  And, you know, when Daniel was speaking last night of some of the savagery that he saw in consequence of our perhaps breakdown of society, and as you go to the book of Revelation and other things, it looks like, you know, Art's given pretty good advice when he encourages people to store and to prepare for.
[02:13:49]  But at the same time, do you think our society has a responsibility, perhaps, maybe of getting on top of some of the problems in our society?
[02:14:00]  I mean, surely we see our freedom slipping away as the Belarite slips down, the Aldous Huxley mindset, the porn, the occult, and of course now putting it on the internet and getting into the schools.
[02:14:12]  Do you feel we have some accountability for that?
[02:14:15]  I definitely feel we have accountability.
[02:14:17]  Yes.
[02:14:18]  And as we were talking earlier, I don't know if you heard that portion, sir, but we were saying that this is part of what's falling away from us: that so many people have the confidence of our technology, our science, and these are wonderful things, but we felt as though maybe we really were gods.
[02:14:39]  Maybe we really were in complete control.
[02:14:42]  And what we're finding out now is, you know, just how puny we are.
[02:14:45]  We have the resources, we have the intellect, we have the spirit if we choose to use it, but accountability has to be a very large part of our responsibility to this planet and to each other.
[02:15:01]  You know, it's like a race, and I wonder, as we race down this path toward whatever is coming or coming back, whether we spiritually will rise to the occasion or the occasion will run over us as one would hit a ruck.

=== Never Thought I Could Feel This Way (05:11) ===

[02:15:19]  It's a choice.
[02:15:20]  That's the choice we make.
[02:15:21]  I think it's the choice we make every day.
[02:15:25]  Yeah, I think you're right.
[02:15:26]  I just sort of wonder we make that choice every day.
[02:15:29]  Right now, I'm not too encouraged.
[02:15:31]  I try to hold out a little hope, but I'm not too encouraged right now.
[02:15:35]  We'll be right back.
[02:15:37]  You look like an angel.
[02:15:41]  Walk like an angel, talk like an angel, but I can't lose the end.
[02:15:59]  You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
[02:16:02]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1999.
[02:16:07]  This one gives me the shivers every time I hear it.
[02:16:11]  Every time.
[02:16:14]  Something about being a ghost.
[02:16:16]  I walk away like a movie star who gets burned in a three-way strip into number two.
[02:16:29]  A movie green to play the scene of bringing all the good things out in me.
[02:16:38]  But for now, love, let's be real.
[02:16:43]  I never thought I could act this way.
[02:16:46]  And I've got to say that I just don't get it.
[02:16:51]  I don't know where we went wrong, but the feeling's gone, and I just can't get it back.
[02:17:01]  God, I love this song.
[02:17:03]  It's Gordon Lightfoot, you know.
[02:17:07]  If you could read my mind, love what a tale my thoughts could tell.
[02:17:16]  Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wishing well in a castle dark or a fortress strong with chains upon my feet.
[02:17:32]  The story always in.
[02:17:36]  If you read between the lines, you'll know that I'm just trying to understand the feeling that you have.
[02:17:50]  I never thought I could feel this way.
[02:17:53]  And I've got to say that I just don't get it.
[02:17:58]  I don't know where we went wrong, but the feeling's gone, and I just can't get it back.
[02:18:06]  I know.
[02:18:07]  I know.
[02:18:08]  I let things go too long sometimes, but I just can't, I just can't help myself.
[02:18:16]  Good morning, Brad Seiger.
[02:18:17]  We'll be right back.
[02:18:39]  Back to Brad Seiger.
[02:18:40]  Brad, are you there?
[02:18:41]  I certainly am.
[02:18:43]  Okay, here we go.
[02:18:45]  West of the Rockies, you're on there with Brad Seiger and Art Bell.
[02:18:48]  Good morning.
[02:18:49]  Hi, Art.
[02:18:50]  Hello.
[02:18:51]  Hi.
[02:18:51]  I'm in Fresno calling from KFRE 940.
[02:18:55]  KFRE, yes, sir.
[02:18:57]  I don't know, there's people in the paper at the Y2K, the author, they don't have to read that.
[02:19:04]  That was from Fresno.
[02:19:05]  Did you see that?
[02:19:06]  No, no, I didn't.
[02:19:07]  I only get that paper on the weekends, but if they don't buy that, then the San Andreas fault ought to be enough of a reason to stockpile a supply of food.
[02:19:19]  Because we're real close to that one.
[02:19:22]  Yeah, I know.
[02:19:23]  You just look at these faces and you want to stockpile right away anyway.
[02:19:29]  The book, the source, how much do you get into the origin of man?
[02:19:33]  Is that pretty well covered?
[02:19:35]  Brad?
[02:19:36]  Well, I think it is.
[02:19:38]  I think we've got some very provocative ideas and concepts, and we go into great lengths.
[02:19:44]  We begin the book with it.
[02:19:46]  Okay, good.
[02:19:46]  Yeah, a while back, I watched a National Geographic.
[02:19:50]  They have videos called The Mysteries of Mankind, and that definitely is provocative.
[02:19:55]  I imagine that would put a lot of Christians' faith to the test.
[02:19:58]  You know, it's very real to me.
[02:20:03]  The Bible theory is quite just too sensational for me to believe, to tell you the truth.

=== Realities We Need To Face (07:17) ===

[02:20:11]  Well, I've you know, my perspective, I never see the conflict.
[02:20:16]  You know, I can't see these things are not threatening to me.
[02:20:21]  They're liberating.
[02:20:22]  And that's always been my position.
[02:20:25]  It has never been a question of faith or attacking faith.
[02:20:29]  These are realities.
[02:20:31]  These are things we need to face.
[02:20:33]  I want to know who we really are.
[02:20:36]  And I think that only enriches us.
[02:20:38]  That only for the people who feel threatened, their God is threatened.
[02:20:44]  I think it makes God that much bigger.
[02:20:48]  That's me, but I cannot see that these things can be anything other than liberating and enriching for us.
[02:20:55]  Yeah, I'm sure it does.
[02:20:57]  To me, it's just a fascinating topic.
[02:21:00]  And basically, the old theory, the evolution, it just seems it seems more practical.
[02:21:07]  Well, one thing, I don't know if you were listening earlier, where we mentioned that now, and we have this in the book, the different hominid species that were coexistent with us.
[02:21:22]  And we describe in the book some incredible skulls which we ran across in Peru that were just mind-blowing because they are not ape.
[02:21:35]  They are we don't know what.
[02:21:39]  They are hominid, humanoid, whatever you want to say, but they aren't us.
[02:21:45]  And they have a just looking at it, the brain capacity would probably be twice ours.
[02:21:51]  How much of that information do you think might have been suppressed?
[02:21:58]  Well, the incredible thing is, you see, we find these things in hidden little private museums, and they are, we said earlier, they are the artifacts of the damned because they are not recognized by conventional orthodox scientists because they don't fit into the paradigms with which they are accustomed to or pleased to deal with.
[02:22:25]  But there are so many of them are showing up now that they just can't ignore them any longer.
[02:22:33]  Sure, yeah.
[02:22:34]  That's true because I've seen many, many instances of South America's good.
[02:22:40]  That's a good example.
[02:22:41]  It just seems to have an awful lot of evidence.
[02:22:44]  But you see, it's untouched there.
[02:22:47]  And unfortunately, how do I want to say this as diplomatically as possible?
[02:22:54]  They don't have the sense of awareness or pride.
[02:23:03]  And these things have been grabbed by private collectors.
[02:23:08]  They've been taken home.
[02:23:10]  They've gone here and they've gone there.
[02:23:12]  And we've just been fortunate to be able to track a few down.
[02:23:17]  Lord knows how many are sitting in people's homes they've purchased, you see.
[02:23:25]  That could turn our entire evolutionary tree upside down.
[02:23:30]  Yeah, I'm sure it would.
[02:23:31]  I'm sure it would.
[02:23:32]  And it's probably just a fraction of what's out there.
[02:23:37]  Exactly.
[02:23:38]  Exactly.
[02:23:39]  But you asked the question, and certainly I think we deal with it in the book from both of our perspectives provocatively, if nothing else.
[02:23:50]  Well, I've read a couple of yours.
[02:23:52]  I've read all of Archbooks.
[02:23:54]  Well, thank you.
[02:23:55]  In that case, it should be very interesting for you to read a combination.
[02:23:59]  I know they're good.
[02:24:00]  I actually wanted a quickening out, and it never came back.
[02:24:04]  I guess that's a sign of a good book, all right.
[02:24:07]  Or a bad person.
[02:24:08]  First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[02:24:11]  Hi.
[02:24:12]  Hi.
[02:24:12]  Am I on air?
[02:24:14]  Yes, you are.
[02:24:15]  Okay, hi.
[02:24:16]  I just wanted to make a comment on the Millennium Bug and the worry that people have for the future in the coming millennia.
[02:24:26]  Yes.
[02:24:27]  I really believe that God's a really kind person and that there's a lot of good people in the world who are trying to correct a lot of the problems that we have in the world.
[02:24:38]  And I really believe that in the end, with God's help, their endeavors to make the world a better place to live in and to cure a lot of the problems that are here and a lot of problems we've created.
[02:24:52]  God will help them, these people, help their endeavors to make this world a better place to live in, a success.
[02:25:03]  And, you know, sure, sure, we're going to have problems, and we've always had problems as long as the earth has been around.
[02:25:09]  But we've always seemed to kick them in the end, and in the end, things have worked out.
[02:25:14]  Yes, but the only thing that worries me about yours is a fine attitude, commendable.
[02:25:20]  But I'm afraid that it's going to cause people to sit on their butts when they ought not do so.
[02:25:25]  That's the only thing that scares me about that.
[02:25:28]  Well, I think you talking about problems and making people aware of things that are going on and programs that can reach internationally and reach a lot of ears will help people think about things that are wrong.
[02:25:46]  And if maybe they have a chance to do something about it, people like you and others who talked about things like that might make them aware of certain things.
[02:25:54]  And if they have it within their power to help things get better in whatever area, they have an ability to help in.
[02:26:04]  They might, because of people like you making them aware, so that it kind of encourages them.
[02:26:09]  All right, all right.
[02:26:09]  Well, I appreciate that.
[02:26:10]  That sounds good.
[02:26:11]  But again, coming back to my Fresno newspaper, now I'll say a little more.
[02:26:16]  It was a whole page of the paper, and they put pictures of four people up, and they asked them, are you concerned about the Y2K computer problem?
[02:26:27]  Asked at Canyon Plaza Shopping Center, Kings Canyon Road, and Chestnut Avenue in Fresno.
[02:26:33]  First gal, who's an assistant manager, said, quote, I don't know about it.
[02:26:39]  I'm too busy working.
[02:26:40]  I don't have time to read the paper, end quote.
[02:26:44]  Now we've got a guy.
[02:26:45]  This reminds you of Chicken Little at all.
[02:26:48]  This is a student.
[02:26:49]  The sky is falling.
[02:26:50]  He says, I found out they already solved that problem.
[02:26:54]  Y2K, meaning Y2K.
[02:26:56]  I heard they're going to start over back to 0-0.
[02:26:59]  I'm not concerned about it.
[02:27:01]  Next guy, a student.
[02:27:03]  My family is concerned about it.
[02:27:07]  They think like we're going to starve, but I think they're idiots.

=== Strange Commercial Creations (08:41) ===

[02:27:12]  And by the way, he has hair that looks like he took 2,000 volts in the last hour or so.
[02:27:19]  And then finally, a young lady who says, this country is way too commercial.
[02:27:22]  I think if we crash, it's cool.
[02:27:25]  Now, this is the generation, Brad, that's coming along to do I know not what.
[02:27:33]  Well, remember, we had that 19-year-old call in and say that he wasn't that way and to give us hope that there are many, many others like it.
[02:27:43]  Well, these were four real winners.
[02:27:45]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[02:27:48]  Hi.
[02:27:48]  You do have a screener, Art?
[02:27:50]  No, I don't.
[02:27:51]  You don't?
[02:27:52]  No.
[02:27:52]  You answered the phone.
[02:27:53]  I answered the phone.
[02:27:55]  Oh, okay.
[02:27:56]  Well, thank you for the excellent manner in which you presented my question regarding the viewing of Y2K to Ed Danes.
[02:28:03]  Okay.
[02:28:04]  You're a superb interviewer, R. Besides that, I didn't screen you at all.
[02:28:08]  All I said was, do you have a question for Brad Steiger?
[02:28:12]  Well, thank you.
[02:28:13]  I'm glad to get on.
[02:28:15]  I didn't ask you what was it.
[02:28:16]  I said, do you have a question for Brad Steiger?
[02:28:18]  Isn't that what I said?
[02:28:19]  Yes.
[02:28:19]  Okay.
[02:28:20]  Certainly.
[02:28:21]  She went straight here.
[02:28:22]  My mother died this year, and I'd like to know if there's some way I could communicate with her.
[02:28:27]  And I heard in another program about someone's deceased mother throwing hairbrushes.
[02:28:31]  And I'd like to know why are some people haunted like this and some people not.
[02:28:37]  Well, that's a really interesting answer.
[02:28:41]  Number one, can she communicate with her dead mother?
[02:28:44]  You want to try that one, Brad?
[02:28:46]  Well, if there is a purpose, there is a need.
[02:28:52]  I think, and I'm very, very cautious about this because there are all kinds of what we call astral masqueraders that might indeed pose as your mother.
[02:29:03]  So I do say that we can encourage and we can have a receptive attitude and we can create an environment of receptivity.
[02:29:15]  Why some people are haunted and others are not.
[02:29:18]  Of course, that's been something I've been investigating for 40 years now.
[02:29:22]  Sure.
[02:29:22]  And that's a great mystery.
[02:29:25]  It's why some people are chosen for this and not for that.
[02:29:30]  I have to come back again that these are individual learning experiences and that hauntings may manifest as teaching devices.
[02:29:37]  They may manifest as moving someone into an awareness.
[02:29:43]  I've been with police officers when a ghost has manifested, and that certainly changed that police officer's reality because he was a total disbeliever.
[02:29:53]  Sure.
[02:29:54]  So I think these things, we don't know how and when.
[02:29:58]  We don't know the answers.
[02:30:01]  All we can do is try to be receptive, try to be open, and allow these experiences to occur, as I said earlier, with discernment so that we truly understand what is happening and not to be gullible for any level of deception.
[02:30:22]  Well, I sure agree with us.
[02:30:23]  Ease of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[02:30:26]  Hello.
[02:30:27]  Hi.
[02:30:28]  Hi.
[02:30:28]  This is not the Rockies, though, but I'm glad to be on.
[02:30:32]  So, Brad, I am calling to tell you about how I use lucid dreams to remember past lives, and other people are trying it, and it works.
[02:30:41]  I want your listeners to try it.
[02:30:44]  So, we have a section on that in the book, as a matter of fact.
[02:30:47]  Yeah, okay, I'm going to tell you how I do it.
[02:30:49]  Okay.
[02:30:49]  Now, I fall asleep listening to the radio, and I hear the radio in my sleep.
[02:30:54]  So, I picked at least one commercial that I hear sometimes, and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming.
[02:31:03]  And to test that, when I hear it, I stick my thumbs in my ears.
[02:31:07]  If I still hear the commercial, I know I'm dreaming because I know I'm not awake really physically, sticking my thumbs in my ears, blocking the sound.
[02:31:15]  And so, I use a VCR also can be useful for recording a radio talk show so that as you know, you hear that it later in the VCR, that the commercial, you know, you fall asleep hearing the earlier part of the recording using a VCR like a regular audio tape recorder, and you can fall asleep and hear the commercial from the VCR that recorded the radio show.
[02:31:42]  And it's easier that way because you already heard it when you recorded it earlier, so you're able to ignore it when you hear it again and get to sleep during the earlier play of the VCR, and then you hear the commercial later in the VCR.
[02:31:58]  Or if someone uses a Real Talk radio, which can get four hours from a one-hour cassette, then he already has me if he has it as a cue if he's using a Real Talk radio recording this talk show right now.
[02:32:11]  Or he can have a commercial on it or something.
[02:32:14]  Well, that's a really unique approach.
[02:32:16]  And if it works for you, you know, I'd be interested in any results you get.
[02:32:20]  I hope your listeners try it.
[02:32:21]  They're hearing me right now.
[02:32:22]  They have the opportunity to use what I'm saying.
[02:32:25]  All right.
[02:32:25]  Well, give it a try, folks, and thank you.
[02:32:28]  Time's running out.
[02:32:29]  Western the Rockies are on there with Art Bell and Brad Seiger.
[02:32:32]  Hello.
[02:32:32]  Hello.
[02:32:33]  Do you hear me?
[02:32:34]  I hear you just fine.
[02:32:35]  Oh, great.
[02:32:35]  Hi, Brad.
[02:32:36]  I know we've got a few minutes left.
[02:32:37]  This is Bob from 790 KBC Radio down in Los Angeles here.
[02:32:41]  And I was wondering your book, interesting title.
[02:32:47]  It seems like you're trying to figure out basically the creation of everything that you're trying to do.
[02:32:54]  Not the creation of everything, of course.
[02:32:57]  We've repeatedly, over the years, we've done shows together.
[02:33:02]  We keep asking ourselves and questioning if there could not be a single source of all phenomena that manifests itself differently depending upon the receptivity or the level of awareness of the percipient.
[02:33:17]  So we're using source in that sense.
[02:33:20]  That's correct.
[02:33:21]  Sort of like I remember in Star Wars.
[02:33:22]  I said to use a force, use a source, I guess.
[02:33:25]  Okay.
[02:33:26]  All right.
[02:33:26]  But anyhow, it's sort of strange that I did something a while back that sort of bizarre, where you did out of body thing, so to speak.
[02:33:36]  And I was curious, I'd done that before a few times before, and I went down because I didn't believe that there's a heaven or hell.
[02:33:44]  I'm sort of right in the middle.
[02:33:45]  Don't really know.
[02:33:47]  But I went down at a certain level.
[02:33:50]  They say it's down below, right?
[02:33:52]  So I went down, and I noticed I started feeling like rejection out of the body.
[02:33:57]  Like you feel like you're throwing up a dirgit and your whole body was just being torn apart.
[02:34:01]  I feel like I was throwing up, but it's hard to explain.
[02:34:04]  I got close, and I heard these two things communicate, and it was really weird.
[02:34:08]  They're using words.
[02:34:09]  If you were to get the dictionary and take every bad word, not swear word, but negative word and communicate within two.
[02:34:16]  It was two beings basically communicating, and they're talking like brother.
[02:34:19]  By saying, brother, if you ever go to the surface and get caught, I'll kill everyone.
[02:34:24]  It was really spooky.
[02:34:25]  And after that, I said, forget that.
[02:34:27]  It was really creepy.
[02:34:28]  I was pretending we were wise to say that.
[02:34:30]  Yeah, it was really spooky.
[02:34:32]  I don't know what the heck is that.
[02:34:33]  I never believed.
[02:34:34]  Now, of course, we are sovereign entities.
[02:34:37]  We have the right to experiment.
[02:34:39]  But like you, my friend, we also should have the wisdom to know when to stop.
[02:34:44]  Yeah, that was got close enough to where you could hear it, but not see anything.
[02:34:49]  You could feel your body just a rejection coming out.
[02:34:51]  It was really bizarre.
[02:34:53]  It was really strange.
[02:34:53]  But it was strange.
[02:34:54]  Two beings, I don't know what they were, but it was the most negative thing you could ever experience.
[02:35:00]  But again, wasn't it a very good learning experience for you?
[02:35:03]  Absolutely, yeah.
[02:35:04]  I really still can't put my finger on exactly what that was, but it's something you'll never forget.
[02:35:08]  No, and I think the meaning of it will become clearer to you the more you think about it.
[02:35:12]  Yeah.
[02:35:13]  Well, thanks for sharing that.
[02:35:14]  That was great.
[02:35:15]  Thank you very much.
[02:35:16]  And, Brad, it looks like we have done it again.
[02:35:19]  Now, we have the birth of the book.
[02:35:22]  That's what this day is.
[02:35:23]  The birth of the book, and it's the source by Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
[02:35:29]  So it ought to be listed.
[02:35:32]  So, Brad, the baby's out.
[02:35:34]  Yes, and congratulations, co-father.
[02:35:40]  You listen to Sarah's NDE on the web.
[02:35:43]  I'm going to be talking to you about it next time you're on.
[02:35:45]  All right, terrific.
[02:35:46]  Take care, Brad.
[02:35:46]  And don't forget the next time you're on is Dreamland.
[02:35:49]  Don't forget that.
[02:35:49]  Yes, I won't forget it.