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Feb. 4, 1999 - Art Bell
02:41:46
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - J.Long & T.McGill - NDEs & Sarah's Hell
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Neil Diamond, where are my pictures?
Peace.
God, I love this song.
Good morning, everybody.
Buckle in.
From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
And you may fax Art at area code 702-727-8499.
Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now again, here's Art.
On the boats and on the planes, they're coming to America.
Never looking back again, they're coming to America.
Oh, oh, oh.
All right, here we go.
We have talked on this program many, many times about near death.
As a matter of fact, I've got my very good friend, Daniel Brinkley, scheduled to do a show here next week.
And he's had some very interesting NDEs.
One thing that is not talked about, we'll talk about why that is, are the other ones.
The ones that don't have the white light.
The ones that don't have the relatives and friends beckoning you on to Heaven's Gate.
Now, there are negative NDEs, but the thing about them is people don't talk about them.
I mean, it's, you know, it's easier to talk about seeing a flying disc than it is to talk about having gone to hell.
And back.
Something you just wouldn't talk about.
You don't hear a lot about it.
Here to talk about it tonight, I've got Dr. Jeff Long, who is a physician who specializes in radiation oncology.
The use of radiation to treat cancer.
He developed the website devoted to NDE at www.nderf.org and we've got a link to that on the website now.
He serves on the board of directors of the International Association for Near-Death Studies serves as chairman of the research committee of IANDS has a special interest in the topic of frightening near-death experiences as a result of his own and he's coming out of the closet this morning on this one he's going to share an astonishing and frightening experience that he had
He said maybe you could call the show The Horror and the Hope Frightening NDE Experiences.
And I will serve up this word of hope to you because what you're going to hear is pretty scary.
Alright?
They would like for me to strongly urge all of you to remain tuned in for the duration of the program.
In other words, you don't want to miss the message of hope that is the end result of what happened.
At least in Dr. Long's case.
Then there's Tricia McGill, a licensed clinical psychologist, also holds a PhD in hypnotherapy, and she is a very experienced, has talked with scores of NDE experiencers, had a radio show, published many of the experiences on the same website that you can go see through mine now.
is in the process of writing a book devoted to NDE with Sandra Rogers, author of Lessons from the Light, and we talked with these two.
You may recall, back in August, we discussed drug X and chemical near-death experiences, and so we're going to ask about that too.
We've got a lot to talk about with these two.
And we have a lady who's going to come on, probably toward the bottom of the hour, named Sarah, who is going to tell you what happened to her.
Because she had one of these, hey, I didn't seem to go in the up direction kind of experiences.
So all of that directly ahead.
Here we go.
As I said, you better be buckled in, I think, for this one.
Let us say hello to Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hello, you two.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Hi.
What you hear in the background is my computer's coming back up because we just had a momentary power failure here.
Did you get any jolt over there in Las Vegas?
Nope.
We got a little rain, but nothing like what you're running into, it sounds like.
Well, it was just power.
Yeah, it's raining, but there was a little power.
Actually, I think the desert is not used to rain, and when it rains here, things go wrong.
I agree with that.
Okay, I guess let's go back and cover some old territory.
Since we had you two on, and we talked about Drug X, which we still are going to call Drug X, because we don't want people going in.
Grabbing this drug or trying to get it and trying to have an NDE.
You were going to try it.
Yeah, I was.
Did you?
No.
You didn't do it?
I'll tell you why not, Art.
Jeff and I looked into it thoroughly and interviewed quite a few people who had tried this particular drug, X, and we both decided that it might not be quite as safe as Some people, you know, try to make it sound like it's perfectly safe.
So I figured, since I had never touched a drug in my life, that it might be just a bit on the smart, conservative side for me just to stay away from it until we learned quite a bit more about it.
And I did run into one gentleman who said that after taking this drug, he went to his freezer and pulled out a frozen chicken and decided he was in love.
And danced around the room with a frozen chicken.
You danced with a frozen chicken?
I didn't have to hear a whole lot more to know that this wasn't something I thought I was really suited for, you know?
That's a near-poultry experience.
It's a fowl experience, for sure.
Oh, God.
All right.
So, so much for that.
Although there are people out there claiming that, Chiffrozen chicken, huh?
There are people who claim that they are able to achieve an NDE with that drug, yes?
You know, let me address that, Art.
I've looked into that from a physician's perspective.
Here's what I've come up with.
If you talk to scores of anesthesiologists, and that's a Drug X is a type of drug that is used in anesthetic practice.
I'm not going to go any further than that.
However, in specifically talking with anesthesiologists that have used drug X hundreds of times, they've absolutely not come up with any patient at any time that describes anything that sounds like an NDE to me.
Not any particular element of it at all.
Well, I can tell you this.
I remember having my wisdom teeth taken out.
And they gave me sodium pentothal for that.
You know, the so-called truth drug?
I had that too.
Did you?
And when I was lying there, and they put the needle in my arm, and all of a sudden, it was like I was on a different planet.
I said, Wow!
What was that?
He said, Oh, I'm just clearing the needle.
He said, Are you ready?
I said, Sure.
He pushed the needle in and I went, That was it.
I was gone.
I woke up later with all kinds of cotton in my mouth and my wisdom teeth gone.
But for one second, when he just cleared that little needle, it was like somebody whacked me with a brick.
I mean, I was in some other dimension somewhere.
And he laughed.
The doctor laughed.
He said, you like that, huh?
Well, wait till you see what this does.
Well, guess what happened to me, Art?
I had my wisdom teeth pulled when I was a teenager.
And I remember coming out of it and I heard somebody whimpering.
And I thought to myself, how disgusting.
I mean, this is probably a grown person and they can't even handle getting their teeth pulled.
That's pretty pathetic.
And then as I came to, it was me that was in the fetal position crying.
It was bizarre.
I'll never forget that.
Here I was really disgusted with whoever it was that was whimpering.
Well, these drugs, even that drug, and I asked the nurse, I said, is it really true about selenium pentothal?
I mean, is it really the true drug?
And she said, well, actually yes.
I could have asked you anything.
Is that true?
Medically speaking, yes.
It's actually been used.
Its nickname, as you know full well, Art, is Truth Serum.
It's been used in interrogation and given in doses high enough that people are in sort of an oblivious la-la land state and they're much more inclined to answer questions truthfully than they would have been if they had full control of their faculties and were resisting answering truthfully.
Our government agencies would never use anything like that, would they?
I won't go there.
All right.
Well, look, nobody talks about it.
I've talked to many, many, many, many men.
Danion Brinkley was here two days ago.
Yesterday, actually.
Thank you.
And he's a big NDE type.
I've talked to many, many people who have had NDEs.
White light, relatives, come on.
There goes the power again.
Oh boy, this could be an interesting night.
Anyway, the normal white light folks.
But there is another side to it that just doesn't, it simply doesn't get talked about.
And I easily understand why.
Yeah.
Now, Dr. Long, I understand that you have had one yourself.
Yes, I have, Art.
How long ago?
That would have been approximately seven years ago.
Interestingly enough, even though the experience happened seven years ago and it was the most dramatic, defining moment of my life, and even though I've I've been through a lot since that time.
It's only been in the last few weeks, and we might develop that a little further later, but it's only been within the last few weeks.
I've really felt I can come out of the closet, talk about it openly, and really share it with the world what I went through.
I'm not unusual.
Less than 10% of people that have had this kind of frightening near-death experience really are able to talk about it.
I feel I've been lucky.
I've been with some very loving Open-minded people.
I think that's been very helpful to me to come out of the closet and feel like I can
really tell what Believe You Me Art is a very dramatic, very remarkable story.
For those who document NDEs, how many percentage-wise negative NDEs are documented?
Does anybody know versus the positives?
Yeah, you know what's interesting Art is that even a few years ago the NDE researchers believed that only about one or two percent of people had, and I don't want to use the term negative, I like to use the term frightening near-death experiences and we'll get into that a little bit later, but what's very interesting is that as the NDE researchers have opened up their mind and listened to people more and been a little bit more opening and caring about the diversity of experiences that people have, all of a sudden Boom!
We've gone from 1 or 2 percent to about 1 in 7.
We're something closer to 15 percent with some more recent investigations.
And even now, the researchers that are looking into this issue believe that there's a lot more people out there that aren't talking.
And the percentage is probably even higher than that.
Of course there are.
Of course it is.
More than embarrassing.
I've got to be honest with you.
If I were to have an NDE negative, I'm not Sure, I could talk about it.
I'm really, honestly, not sure I could talk about it or would talk about it.
Well, Art, you're absolutely right, and that's what essentially all frightening NDE experiencers have run into.
First of all, I want to explain a little bit why I call it frightening instead of negative.
You know, Art, words are a real problem whenever I talk about NDEs, and let me explain that.
When you call an experience, quote, negative, unquote, that implies that it has no value and it cannot be beneficial.
But our terrifying indies have as great a potential for transforming people's lives
as any blissful experiences.
The goodness knows, Art, it takes a whole lot of courage to work them through.
It's tougher than a blissful experience, believe me.
Well, Daniel talked frequently of his, and one of the things that he always said and
many experiencers say is that they experience a full life review, that they are made to
feel things that they did to people as those people felt them.
And that is a frightening prospect because we are all somewhat less than perfectly included.
And I sure have heard some people in my life, I know it.
And if I had to feel what they felt from me, it would be horrifying.
You know Art, 75% of the people that I have interviewed over the past 20 years have said Yes, they have had an experience of a complete life review.
Everything they did right and everything they did wrong and they even got to feel the pain they caused other people.
In other words, they were those people while they were being hurt by the individual who was going through the life review.
That's a fearful prospect right there and that's probably the worst thing that happens to the majority of people.
in an NDE.
That's the worst right there.
When a person dies they are going to go through a life review and that's probably the worst
aspect of their experience.
After that it's probably going to be good for the majority.
And so the life review is almost like you might say hell.
It's tough to really see all that you've done all your life, all the good and all the darkness.
If you're like me you really fight real hard to keep people from seeing the dirty deeds
Of course.
And it's natural.
It's human nature.
And yet, all that is torn away during the life review of an NDE.
Everything you've done in complete honesty and openness is shown to you, as well as its effect on others, just like Danian is going to talk about.
Well, that's terrifying.
That is scary.
See, there are no secrets in the afterlife.
Everybody can look at you and tell exactly where you're at as far as your spiritual growth.
That's kind of a frightening prospect.
It is.
It is.
But I think the only upside to it is, I know, I'm sure there are monks on mountains in wherever, Tibet, Pakistan, whatever, who probably have, for the most part, a pretty pure life or a fairly pure life.
But for the rest of us, the only comfort is that I think most of us You know, that has been the whole life experience since I had my frightening NDE.
I was coming to grips with that and coming to grips with the issues that I had to face.
That was part of the process that changed a frightening NDE that I had all those years ago into something that has been massively life-changing.
And massively positive in my life to the current time.
And I might add, it's interesting you mention about monks on a mountain.
I think an interesting point to be made is that in all of the world's religious traditions, saints have always, almost always, reported terrifying experiences that really, after all, did not keep them from being holy people.
I mean, these frightening experiences happen to the good and the not-so-good.
Now, that doesn't make sense.
Unless NDEs don't make sense, because they are not what we hope they are.
I think I'd want to deal with that right off the bat.
Let me tell you about a person I talked to, a doctor, a physician in internal medicine, Dr. Barbara Romer, who is going to have a book out in June, who has studied frightening NDEs, and has the interesting way of looking at them, of calling them Less than positive, or LTP.
Isn't that an interesting name?
There's probably a lot of validity to that, too.
New Age political correctness, if you ask me.
No, I think it's scientifically.
As someone who's hoping to do a lot of good research on NDE, from having spent hours talking with Barbara, I would have to say I believe that Barbara is absolutely accurate in coming up with that term, because there is a lot of that.
Barbara has studied over 300 people that have had NDEs and a substantial number of them
had frightening or, as she would describe it, less than positive NDEs.
I was talking to her just very recently and she indicated that to the best of her ability
to medically discern there was absolutely no difference between the groups that had
frightening NDEs and the groups that had positive NDEs, not in terms of any psychological, mental,
spiritual, emotional, anything across the board.
That puts a giant question mark right across the whole spectrum, then, of NDEs, in my mind.
Listen, we'll hash this one out.
We've got somebody standing by, and I want to be able to get her story on.
Her name is Sarah, and I'd like to bring her up, and then we'll come back to where we just were.
How's that?
Excellent.
All right, we'll break here at the bottom of the hour, and when we come back, Sarah will be here.
Sarah had a, I don't know what to call it, a horrifying, frightening, negative, less than productive, NDE.
So we'll get Sarah and we'll listen to Sarah's story and then we'll come back and we'll talk about the The whole subject of NDEs.
If anybody can have anything, then what does that mean?
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
Bye.
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
Have all these things in our memories haunt?
And they use them to cause some fun Ride, ride my sea-soul
Take this place off that strip Just for me
Ride, ride my sea-soul Take a big roll
Take my place I'm a sea-soul
It's all free To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
And you may call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA, then 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM, from the Kingdom of Nye, with Art Bell.
That would be me.
Good morning, everybody.
It's going to be a strange one, and I give you a warning.
Some of what you're going to hear is going to scare the hell out of you.
So, if you don't want to be scared, you might want to tune out.
If you're willing to be scared and wait, you might find hope, light, as it were, at the end of the tunnel.
That long, narrowing tunnel.
So stay tuned, if that's you.
13 hours and 19 minutes from now, I'm going to be doing Dreamland, taping Dreamland for this Sunday, and if you're on broadcast.com, you can join us.
That's right, we tape Dreamland between 1 and 4, and guess who's going to be here tomorrow?
Bud Hopkins.
That's right, Bud Hopkins.
A real heavyweight in his field.
Want to know about abductions?
Be here tomorrow.
Otherwise, listen on Sunday.
But you can, on broadcast.com, listen and participate.
So, that's between 1 and 4 o'clock, Friday, with Bud Hopkins.
Be worth your while to take the time and be here.
Back now to my guests, Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hi, you two.
Hi.
All right, let's do it.
Here comes from, I think, Las Vegas, somebody named Sarah.
Sarah?
Yes?
Welcome to the program.
Thank you.
Sarah, stay good and close to the phone for us and project.
And if you would, just tell us what happened to you, Sarah.
My near-death experience happened in 1989.
I was bicycling home from a volunteer position, and I got hit by a pickup truck from behind, traveling about 50 miles an hour.
The truck slammed into me, and I was catapulted 60 feet forward.
My lungs collapsed.
Most of my internal organs ruptured.
I broke my pelvis.
I was pretty much roadkill at that point.
Roadkill?
Yeah.
Fortunately there was a police officer nearby who radioed an ambulance and I was taken to a hospital rather quickly.
Were you off on the side of the road?
No, I was in the bike lane actually.
In the bike lane?
Yeah, the woman was racing for a light and she didn't see me.
Oh, my God.
Yes.
And you got thrown 60 feet with just about everything internally ruptured.
Oh, it was bad.
Yeah.
So they 911, ambulance comes.
Right.
Of course, I don't have any memory of any of that, though.
That information was all told to me afterward.
You were out cold.
Yeah.
And I was having my NDE at that point, as far as I can tell.
Well, all right.
Is there any...
I'd like to understand from that moment that you got hit, obviously, you were not, you didn't have any warning that you were about to be hit, did you?
No, none at all.
In fact, I've never even seen the face of the woman that hit me.
Wow, so just bang!
Yeah.
And that's it, alright.
So, what is your first recollection, your first recollection?
The first thing that I remember was being in a very complete, utterly black place.
I didn't have any sense of up or down or direction or perspective.
It was just as black as you can imagine.
In this place I had an awareness that I still had a body, but other than that I had no idea where I was or what was happening next at all.
I was just kind of stunned.
Was there any sense of The real world.
The Sarah was... No.
No?
No, it was... You didn't rise up and see your body and all that stuff?
No, I was in a... It was as if I was in a black box.
Except there were no walls.
I couldn't see anything anywhere.
There was nothing but black.
It was very black, too.
You know, they describe themselves as black.
I understand.
And you still had a sense that your body was there?
That I still had a body, yes.
Well, the first thing I would do if I had that kind of consciousness, I guess I would, even in the black, to retain my sanity, I would try and touch myself and feel my hands and my arms and my body to see if I really was physical.
Well, I don't remember doing anything like that.
All I remember is that I had an awareness of, kind of, arms and legs.
You know, that idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was there for an unknown length of time where nothing happened.
I was just in this black place.
Did you have emotions?
Were you terrified?
I was stunned more than anything else.
It was just kind of a it was actually kind of a neutral feeling more than anything else.
But it quickly changed.
A neutral feeling?
Yeah.
Kind of, okay, where am I?
And why am I here?
And why is it that there's nothing here but me?
Right.
No sense of anything else?
Any other presence?
Beings?
Nothing at all.
Just dark.
But you say that changed?
Yes.
At one point, often, what seemed to be the distance, because it was Farther away from me I started hearing a hum and then I saw a little pinprick of light and the sound began to get louder and it got closer to me and as the whatever it was drew closer I noticed that it was a creature that and that the creature was surrounded by flames and there all the various colors of flames reds and yellows and it was I don't know big
Like, it seemed like it was eight feet tall to me, and it was huge.
And it had huge teeth and huge eyes, and it was, there was a humming all around it, and it was making, you know, it was growling and gnashing its teeth, and it was drooling, and from what I remember, the body of the creature itself was black.
And it just was coming toward me at an incredible rate.
And you discerned this black against the white, because you had been in total blackness, right?
Right.
Well, against the flames, it was completely covered with flames.
Flames were shooting out of it.
It had like a huge, not like a halo, but more like it was surrounded by flames that shot out from its body.
How old were you when this occurred? 27.
All right, so here comes a creature that looks, what, like a dragon?
Is there any way to describe?
The closest thing that I could say is that it looks, yeah, it looked like a demon, really, more than a dragon.
A demon?
A demon.
It was very demonic, yeah.
It had huge gnashing teeth, and it had long, scaly hands, and it was stomping up and down, and huge eyes.
I guess it was draconic in aspect, but not like you would think of a dragon.
It didn't have wings or anything like that, although it did have flames.
But the flames weren't coming out of its nose or anything like that.
It was just surrounding it.
And so, how intellectually awake were you?
I was terrified at that point.
There's no other way to describe it.
I was odd.
And terrified at whatever this was that was coming at me.
So you had enough sense about you to be, to have the hell scared out of you?
Oh, I was utterly, yeah, I was, uh, I was frozen in fear.
I mean, this sounds like something out of, out of movie Alien, you know, that horrid little creature.
Yeah, but it was, except it was big.
And yeah, and it was flaming, too.
It wasn't just flabbering it just and it was looking at me you know i mean
it had intent that was on me you yes it was coming from me
uh... yet uh...
did you did you
at all i mean i'm sure you just have brought fear so you did not
want to intellectualize but
at some point you must have wondered and my
did Have I gone into another dimension?
Have I time slipped?
Something or another?
Did you think about any of that?
In other words, why you were here, where you were, all of that?
Only before the creature started coming toward me did I think about anything like that.
Once I realized that this was something that was coming toward me and had an intention of dealing with me, there was nothing but terror in my mind.
And I was just in awe, because I'd never seen anything like this, ever.
It was so fantastic.
So much beyond the realm of anything in ordinary reality.
Especially because there was nothing else around it to compare it to.
It's just black and this thing.
Okay.
When I first called, I think a man answered.
Was that your husband?
Yes.
Do you have children?
Yes, I do.
You do?
Have you led a reasonably good life, do you think?
Well, you know, when this happened, which was now ten years ago, it took me that long.
As Jeff was saying, for him it took me about ten years before I was really able to talk about this to anyone else.
Sure.
I had really led a very ordinary life.
I hadn't really lived very long and done very much.
You know what I mean?
Yes, I do.
I didn't really have time to create too much havoc.
I felt that I really had led a rather ordinary life in most aspects up until that point.
Yeah.
That was another thing that continues to seem fantastic to me.
I mean, you sound articulate.
You sound like a housewife.
You sound pretty normal to me.
Oh, I am?
Well, I listen to you, so I don't know.
Well, I put you out there a notch or so.
Okay, you're not that normal then.
I would consider myself to be a little bit outside of the norm.
But in terms of the way I relate to the world, yeah, you know, I hold a job, I pay my taxes, all that stuff.
So here comes this... This creature.
Demon, I guess.
Demon.
Well, that's the way I look at it, yeah.
It was... Oh, there is one more thing I need to ask you, and that is, so we can put this in perspective, your religious background.
Oh, I was raised an Episcopalian.
Strict?
Uh, no.
No.
No.
Which is a really rather gentle sect, as far as the sects go, I think.
Can I ask you one thing, Sarah?
Sure.
Didn't you tell us at the Friends of Iams group that I have on Sundays that you were coming back from a volunteer job at the church?
Yes.
You were on your way home from the church.
Yes, I was.
On your bike when you got hit by a hit and run driver.
Yes.
In fact, I was getting ready to do a job.
As a deaconess at the church the very next day.
I was coming home happy, happy, happy when this happened to me.
I was on top of the world at that point.
So not only were you doing something for the church, but you felt good about yourself?
Oh, I was very happy at that point, yes.
I was on my bicycle.
I wasn't in a car.
I was very happy about that because it was a lovely country road that I was riding on.
It was a beautiful evening.
You know, it really caught me by surprise and turned me upside down, literally and everything after that, too.
Also, Art, I might mention that Sarah is carrying a lot of the physical scars of that experience, too.
Sarah, isn't it your right arm that's pretty much paralyzed?
Yeah, I lost the use of my right arm as a result of the injuries from the accident afterwards.
How about the rest of you?
I mean, collapsed lungs, internal organs?
It took a long time before I could walk, and I suffered from a concussion also, so I had a complete loss of identity.
I had to teach myself to read again, and all those normal things that happen when you get a really, really serious injury like that.
Amnesia?
Oh, yeah.
It took a long time for me to become who I am now.
You had to actually learn to read again?
Yes, I did.
I couldn't read.
I started with kids' books like, you know, Go Spot Go.
And I remember it being a big achievement for me when I could read People Magazine.
And then I went on from there, because before the accident I'd been, and still am, a very avid reader.
I love to read, and the fact that that had been taken away from me was almost too much for me to bear.
I know we're jumping ahead here, but did parts of your previous life, the reading you did, the things you enjoyed, did they slowly begin to return to you?
Only parts of it.
Actually, what I actually had to do as part of my remembering who I was was I went back and visited my childhood home and tried to find as many people as I knew that I'd grown up with so they could tell me about myself.
And so I could sort of fit it as, oh, well, I guess this happened to me because you're telling me that it did, even though I don't really have a conscious memory of it.
Were you married then?
No, I wasn't.
You weren't.
You were a single girl.
Was this here in Nevada?
No.
This was in Marin County in California.
Marin County.
Yes.
How long were you to the world out?
I mean just unconscious before you came back around to some form of consciousness physically?
Three days.
Three days in a virtual coma?
Yes.
Did you at any time during those three days actually flatline?
According to the medical records, five times.
Five times?
Yeah, they kept losing me.
They kept giving me an hour to live and then another hour to live.
I was very critical for a long time.
Wow.
It was really horrific.
Do you think that you know when you flatlined?
Well, I think probably... I don't have any conscious memory of it, as I said, for me.
I came back to my body about three days later in time.
So you really think you were gone for that three days?
As far as I know, yes.
You know, because there was basically I had the extended experience that I had and then I was back in my body.
But as far as time is concerned, three days had passed.
I've never really heard a story like yours before.
Well, it's not over.
I fully understand that.
This is really something new to me.
And this isn't unusual.
It's not unusual, Doctor?
I believe it's unusual, but I do not believe that my experience is unique.
There are other people that have had experiences like mine.
They just may not have ever told anybody about it.
Obviously, since that time.
When did you begin talking about this?
Well, I spoke about it when I first I don't know.
and back to my body actually wasn't able to speak to that in a respirator in my
face but I started writing about it and probably
up all the people in the hospital that spoke to about it told me
that I was just having intense hallucinations because of the fact that
I was so incredibly injured and then I told kind of my immediate circle of friends at
the time but it was such a fantastic thing that I could really feel
them uh... drawing away from me because of it like that i can
Sarah, hold on.
We'll come right back to you and to Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill as well.
I'm Art Bell.
I'm a friend.
I've come to talk with you again.
I'm Art Bell.
creeping.
Left its seeds while I was sleeping and the vision that was planted in my brain still remains within the sound of silence.
To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S., first, dial your access number to the USA.
Then, 800-893-0903.
If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222.
If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222.
From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
Call Art at 1-800-618-8255.
Or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
People talking without speaking.
People hearing without hearing.
My old friend, Darkness.
Good morning, everybody.
If you're just joining us, I've got Dr. Jeff Long, who is a radiation oncologist, and also very much involved in near-death experiences.
Tricia McGill, who is a licensed clinical psychologist, also very much involved in NDEs.
And we're talking with Sarah, a young lady, who on the way home from church, riding her bicycle, Was hit by a lady doing about 50 miles an hour.
She was thrown 60 feet into the air.
Broke most of her bones.
Internal organs hemorrhaged.
Her lungs collapsed.
She has no use of one of her arms now.
And she died.
Not once, but five times.
That death originated with utter silence, blackness.
And then there was a light.
And then there was a horrible creature, an entity.
She described it as a demon, with fire about it, coming toward her, with intent to come toward her.
When we come back, we'll pick it up Right there.
Back now to Dr. Jeff Long, Tricia McGill, and Sarah.
Sarah, welcome back.
Thank you.
Alright, well it takes a lot of guts, I think, especially publicly, to talk about this.
So, you are now left without the use of one arm.
Have you otherwise recovered, or are there any other lingering physical problems?
Well, I have, in that arm, I have a condition that's called reflex sympathetic dystrophy.
Which means I'm in pain all the time.
So that has really changed my life in a great deal of ways also.
Because when you experience pain, I think when you're that young, and I didn't really have any precedent in my life for acute injury or acute pain.
So it really served to kind of change my perspective.
Especially about human beings and suffering.
All right, back to that most awful moment when out of the darkness the light, a little pinprick of light, and then this horrid being with flames around it, a creature, I guess like a monster movie, coming at you.
At you.
At me.
At an incredible rate of speed, too.
Not slow.
Very quickly.
It came toward me and there was nowhere to go in this black.
I didn't think there was to move.
I didn't think to run because where was I going to go?
This is where I really say that I had an awareness of my body because I remember standing my ground, just sort of locking my knees and gritting my teeth and balling up my hands and going, Whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
And I closed my eyes as this creature, you know, I could feel its hot breath on me at that point, right?
And what it did was actually started to pass through my body.
And I had an awareness of it passing actually very slowly through my body.
And as it was passing through my body, it was laughing, and really gleefully laughing as it passed through me.
And then it exited behind me with a pop.
And then I started moving forward in the dark.
And as I was rushing forward in the dark, there were, there ended up being two more of these creatures that came at me.
They were different colors from that one.
You can actually remember, in other words, you say you rushed forward.
Yes.
As in physically running?
No, more than like whooshing, like flying.
I got you.
Yeah.
But then I started moving forward.
And then as In this infinite black, there was no sort of idea that I was moving toward anything.
There was just black.
Yes.
And then another one of these creatures came, but I knew what to do about this one, and I just closed my eyes, and it went through me.
And then I kept going forward, and another one came, and these were both in different colors.
They were still of the same aspect.
They were still horrific looking, but they were just different colors than the original one.
And so another one came through me, and it passed through me, and then I came to the entrance to a tunnel.
And the tunnel was made out of clouds, or seemed to be made out of clouds.
It was like grey storm clouds, different colors of storm clouds.
It's hard to describe how large it was because I didn't have any idea of perspective at that point.
But what I can tell you is that it went up and then branched to the right.
And went around at such a turn that I actually couldn't see where the right branch of the tunnel was going.
And on the sides of the tunnel were kind of doorways in the clouds.
There were several different ones of them.
There wasn't just one or two.
They went up kind of at irregularly spaced intervals on both sides.
Sounds almost like a maze.
It wasn't really a maze.
It was more like a viewing gallery.
You know, if you were walking down a gallery, there were windows on both sides, but these happened to be doorways in the clouds.
I see.
So, at this point, I looked down at myself, and I no longer had my body.
My body had become a little blue star, and I was just a little star of light, a little blue star.
And then, as I noticed myself as a blue star, which seemed a perfectly normal thing for me to be in this context.
I looked back up the tunnel and I noticed that there were other little lights kind of moving around the tunnel up ahead of me.
And it was far.
It was a very vast distance.
It wasn't as if I could just walk from one end of the tunnel very quickly if I had feet.
But you know what I mean?
It was far.
Yes.
And there were other little lights in the tunnel.
Not a lot.
I'd say maybe six.
And some of them were blue like me, and others were kind of orange-amber colored.
But you had sight, as we have sight now.
Yes.
I was still seeing, and I was still aware, completely aware of myself.
Do you know what I mean?
I had a complete, utter personality of me.
Yes.
You said obviously without feet, now you're not walking.
Were you able to intentionally produce motion?
Could you move yourself in a direction?
Yes.
Well, it happened that as I was gazing in this tunnel going, Okay, now I'm here, and now I'm a blue star.
Two little other blue stars appeared on either side of me, and they pushed me into the tunnel.
So then I started moving, kind of floating, into the tunnel.
And that all seemed very normal at the time.
I know it sounds fantastic, but... To say now I know, but to you at that time, it was just what was happening in normal.
Right.
I do understand.
So as I was floating along I observed that some of the doorways in the in the clouds were open while others seem to have been shut up in terms of they didn't have like a door with a handle or anything like that there was just kind of a darker area and you couldn't see in and some of the doors had characters above them like you know identifying what they were But they weren't written or any characters that I'd ever seen.
And sometimes that was very dim.
So you didn't really understand what those meant?
No, not at all.
I just noticed, oh, isn't that interesting that there were sort of something other than the clouds above the doors.
Did they look like Egyptian characters or Chinese or something?
They were fantastic.
They could have been any combination of those, you know?
Egypto-Phoenician, Chinese, Science fiction, who knows, you know?
But definitely not door number one, two, and three.
No, nothing that was recognizable to me at all.
And not every door had that either, only some doors.
Right, wow.
So, anyway, the first doorway that I looked into looked like hell.
There were people shrieking and screaming and there were Naked human beings strewn about, you know, this horrid landscape with pools of bubbling excrement, and there's boulders, and animals were torturing people, and people were torturing each other, and, you know, there were creatures with pitchforks, and, you know, erupting flame geysers, and it was kind of the artist's classic depiction of hell.
Well, let me stop you right there.
This is the most detailed description I've ever heard.
I want you to hear something, Sarah.
There was a story about Siberia, and they drilled, it was said, the world's deepest hole in Siberia.
And the scientists who drilled the hole Lowered heard something and they lowered a microphone as far as they could into the hole and They made a recording and I had a listener who sent me a copy of that recording And I want to play that recording.
It's only a few seconds long.
Listen very carefully.
Based on what you just described in the room that you saw, the room that seemed like hell,
I wonder if it sounded like this.
It sounded like this.
Sarah?
Oh, I just got goosebumps all over my body.
Me too.
Oh, that was just exactly like what it sounded like.
That is amazing.
I don't know if I wanted to hear that, but when you said that, I couldn't resist.
So you had that much sensory perception.
You not only saw, but you heard.
Well, not only that, it got worse.
In that, as I got close to this doorway, I was in kind of the center of the hall, and I looked in and saw this scene, and I was like, whoa!
And then I went toward this door, I kind of floated toward it, and there was a sucking sensation near this door, kind of like a whirlpool.
And I got actually sucked into the hell.
And I was kind of catapulted above it, and I was floating above this scene, which is one reason why I can describe it in such Great detail is because I was in there for a while, listening to it, looking at it, just again horrified and awed by what I was witnessing because the scenes of torment were so incredibly imaginative and different.
There was every imaginable thing going on in there, you know?
It was just, that you can think of in terms of torture and human misery, it was happening in there.
And you were sucked into it?
And I was sucked into it, yeah.
But you were above it, seeing it?
I was above it, yes.
I didn't have to... It wasn't as if anything was reaching for me.
It was more as if I was observing it.
Good Lord.
At this point, Sarah, at any point during all of this, didn't you begin to intellectualize your situation and ask yourself, where am I and what's happened to me?
Or was it so natural that you just never went through that process?
Really, while this whole thing was happening, I never questioned why it was happening.
I questioned what was happening in terms of, you know, is this even possible at all?
But I never questioned why it was happening.
It just seemed as if it was something that I needed to see.
Or maybe you were familiar with it.
Pardon me?
Could it be possible that, Sarah, you were familiar with it because you had been there before?
That's very possible.
I have no idea.
All I know is that it had a strange fascination to me in its horrible way.
But you weren't yet really part of it.
No, I didn't have to be part of it.
I was floating above it.
And then there was the one point where, kind of like when you're watching a horror movie and you decide, all right, that's enough of this.
Yes.
And I said, all right, I'm leaving.
And I went back toward the door, which was The doorway out into the tunnel was visible from everywhere in this landscape.
No matter where you looked, you could always see the door, and the door was always open.
You could see the tunnel, you know, the cloud of tunnel, and in there it seemed very calm, especially considering with the tumult that's all around.
Well, an obvious question is, though, those who were in that hell couldn't get to that door while you could?
I think My feeling about this is because of what happened next, which was actually I left without any difficulty.
As I was passing through the door, my thought at that point was that the people that were in this scene could leave it at any time.
They just weren't aware that they could because they were so caught up in their own idea that they needed to suffer.
Or perhaps... You know, they say the door to hell is always open.
Yeah, perhaps they were keeping themselves there.
Yes, they were.
Have you seen the recent Robin Williams movie?
Yes, I did.
On your recommendation, actually.
Really?
Yes.
It must have jolted you pretty hard.
It was interesting, but not exactly the same as my experience, only because he never had the idea of the tunnel.
The tunnel was so primary for mine.
Right.
But his idea, and his idea of hell was tame for me.
Tame compared to what you saw?
Tame compared to what I saw, yes.
Well, all of this is confusing to the layman, because when you start talking about clouds and light, and being a blue light, that begins to sound kind of spiritual on the good side, not... I don't know if it was necessarily spiritual on the good side.
I think actually it's more what What form humans may take when they lose their body, or what form we perceive this particular experience in.
I don't know.
Well, in What Dreams May Come, and some other motion pictures that have been produced, there is the concept that people essentially sentence themselves to hell.
Yes, and that's what I think, too.
I think so, definitely, from the experience that I had.
That people had sentenced themselves.
That's what I've gotten from all of my research also.
So you left there on your own.
You got out.
I felt really lucky, too, because I was afraid that I wasn't going to be able to get out, because that sucking sensation had been so strong coming in.
Even as I was leaving, I could feel the energy pouring back in.
If anything else unwary came along, it was also going to get sucked in.
So it was pretty interesting in that respect.
And then I was back in the tunnel.
Back in the tunnel of clouds and doors?
Right.
The tunnel of clouds and doors.
Okay.
So I decided I was going to keep going up the tunnel.
And so the next world that I looked into, which was, I don't remember if it was exactly the one right next to the hell, but the next door that I looked in that I have a conscious memory of was also a kind of hell.
Uh, kind of a completely yellow landscape that was flat and there were people and they were just walking and they had their heads down and they were totally depressed and totally self-absorbed in this utter miserable state of mind and they walked past each other and they walked next to each other and they were totally oblivious that anybody else was there and that was all that was happening except there was a sun in the sky that would cast incredibly long shadows of these people.
Across the landscape.
And again, there was this sense here, again, of another kind of misery.
It wasn't as graphic.
Not as torturous.
No, but it was, on certain levels, it was worse.
Because these people were completely isolated and alone.
And in their isolation and in their loneliness, they were utterly lost and miserable.
Oh, my God.
Oh, it was.
That's what I thought, too.
When I looked in that world, I was like, oh, my God.
All right, Sarah.
That one I didn't have to go into, though.
That one I managed to... There was no sucking sensation at that door.
I just looked at it.
You looked at it and... And said, wow!
Enough of this place.
All right, hold on, Sarah, and hold on.
Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
I'm Art Bell, and I don't think I've ever heard as graphic a description of a trip to a place of this kind.
Ever.
This is somebody who flatlined five times, was thrown 60 feet by an automobile.
Well I think it's time to get ready to realize just what I have found.
I have been only half of what I am.
It's all clear to me now.
You could remind my love what a tale my thoughts could tell.
Just like an old time movie about a ghost from a wishing well.
In a castle dark or a fortress strong with chains upon my feet.
You know that ghost is me And I will never be set free As long as I'm a ghost you can't see From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
Colorado and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers may reach out at Area Code 702-727-1222.
And you may fax out at Area Code 702-727-8499.
Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
There are times when my own program scares me.
with Art Bell. Now again, here's Art.
This certainly is a place where you hear things you don't hear
anywhere else at all. There are times when my own program scares me.
This is one of those times.
We'll get back to Sarah in a moment.
Back now, Dr. Jeff Long is here, and Tricia McGill is here as well, but we're speaking now with Sarah, and I have never in all my... I hope it doesn't bring the website down.
Not at all.
No, I hope not.
No problem.
You guys have the website up, right?
Oh, yeah.
We sure do.
It's staying up so far?
Yeah, www.nders.org.
Okay, we've got the link up, of course, and we've had it up for, I think, a couple days here.
So, I hope it stays up.
Yeah, me too.
Anyway, Sarah.
Yes.
So, you come out of this.
I just want you to keep going because I'm caught up.
I've never heard anything as detailed as this in my life from somebody like you, ever.
Well, it really, absolutely, utterly changed my life forever and it has been the Pivotal event in my existence ever since then.
One of the reasons why I want to communicate it is so that I can move forward with this and join with other people in sort of celebrating this event so that it no longer is something that is just my own.
you know just my own and you know it's just very it takes a lot of energy and especially
with something like this where you don't have any precedent in your existence for such a
How do you fit that back into an ordinary reality when you return to it?
I don't know.
I haven't done a very good job with that.
Let's finish it.
You came out of this second room where people were on a yellow floor, sort of, in just sort of a horribly depressed You sort of looked in that one and didn't spend much time, so let's get out of here.
No, I just felt a great deal of compassion for these people again, because it seemed again like they were choosing this state.
Like they didn't have any idea that this was not what they had to be at all.
But unfortunately, they didn't have any idea of that.
All they knew is that this is what it was.
And just to see all these different human beings just passing each other by like ships in the night.
And having no idea that anybody else was there.
It was just so isolating and lonely.
Other than those creatures, which more than noticed you, came after you, did anybody in any one of these rooms, were they aware you were there, do you think?
No, it was more like looking in an aquarium.
Kind of like that idea.
Because in both cases, the tunnel was kind of above these landscapes.
So it was very much a kind of a looking down on them.
I've got you.
Okay.
Then what?
Well then I decided to keep continuing up the tunnel and the next world that made any sort of impression on me was kind of a very different one in the aspect of it was the most beautiful thing that I'd ever seen and in that way The Robin Williams film touched me very deeply because of the kind of color that he had there and the beautiful waterfalls and bridges and fountains.
It was sparkling and iridescent and welcoming.
I could hear the sounds of birds and all this other thing going on in there.
It was like, oh boy, I definitely want to go in there.
By the way, folks, it's called What Dreams May Come.
Yes, it was wonderful.
Later, in fact several years later, after I had this experience, I saw the paintings of an artist named Gilbert Williams.
This world was very much like his paintings, if you're familiar with his work at all.
I'm not.
Okay.
But anyway, it was luminescent.
Everything was lit from within and sparkling and living and gorgeous.
It was very interesting because as I went toward this world, Of course I wanted to go in there.
I was like, oh yeah!
As I started to pass through the doorway, it was as if my little star nose got stuck against a piece of plastic wrap and I couldn't go any further in to this world.
And a voice, almost as if I touched a doorbell, a voice said, you do not have the information to enter this world.
And I was terribly disappointed.
But I thought, okay, well, what can I do?
You know, I can't go any further.
In fact, I remember I kind of tried to push through this transparent covering over this world.
Right.
But it didn't work.
I didn't go in.
You don't have the information.
To enter this world, yes.
And I thought, well, okay.
And I thought to myself, well, I'm certainly going to get the information wherever I, somehow I will get the information to enter that world.
That was a big disappointment for me.
Right.
So at that point I was kind of near the very much near the end of the tunnel in terms of where it branched to the right.
Okay.
And so I as in my little star self I turned around and there in this right branching was a big yellow and white light that was very I don't think so.
and intense and beautiful and wonderful.
So I decided, okay, well, I may as well go into the light.
So I went into the light and I'm in the light and I feel this incredible feeling of joy
and happiness and bliss.
I notice that that's the only thing that I can feel.
There's nothing else going on there but joy and happiness and bliss and celestial harmony
and it was overwhelming.
I said to the light, I said, I'm here.
And the light said, in this kind of big voice, it said, Great!
Great!
Then I kind of gave myself up to the light.
I merged with it.
I myself became nothing but eternal joy and bliss and happiness.
I kind of floated in this state for quite some time and in this state I lost.
my fear of death and I learned a lot of things that are
all kind of personal truth for me about myself in the state of joy and bliss
and this lasted for an unknown period of time and then again I
let me ask you were you in that state I I've experienced uh... sarah something like that in the
Not an NDE, but an out-of-body experience I had.
Just instantaneously.
So, I know just a little tiny bit about it.
Could you think?
Could you intellectualize?
Obviously, something was going on because you were recognizing these things about yourself.
So you had some sort of awareness?
Yes.
It was definitely a learning state and a healing state at the same time.
But I was aware of myself.
Again, I never lost my awareness of who I was, ever.
No matter what was happening, even in the state of utter joy and bliss.
I was in utter joy and bliss, and yet the joy and bliss was also outside me and happening around me.
And at one point, to be perfectly honest with you, It got kind of dull, and so I decided that I was going to leave this place of joy and bliss, and so I said to the light, I said, I'm leaving, and the light said, great!
And I thought, okay.
You know, so far I'm right with you, because the feeling of eternal joy and bliss would, after a while, I suppose, sort of And I guess that sounds kind of sacrilegious.
It does.
But it should be almost boring.
In other words, you're tired of it.
I did.
I'm tired of it.
Because in certain levels, it was exhausting.
Because it was never ending.
You know, there was nothing but that.
There was no other emotion expressed.
It was always joy and bliss.
So the line said, wonderful.
The line said, great.
Yeah.
And I had an idea that it doesn't matter on a personal level.
It didn't matter if I was there or if I wasn't there.
This light was always going to be an eternal joined with.
You were welcome to come, welcome to go.
Exactly.
And so that was just wonderful.
So, and then, you know, and I remember thinking, well okay, well alright, well I'm leaving now.
And I kind of went rather quickly back down the tunnel.
And I paused, this is kind of, now we're kind of near the end of this here.
This is my last little experience.
But there was a doorway near the end of the tunnel that was actually near the entrance where I came in.
And this doorway looked out onto space.
And there were galaxies and stars and planets.
And it was utterly silent and utterly serene.
And it seemed, you know, if you could go out and float on that forever and be kind of numbly happy Pretty much eternally.
And there's also a sense of adventure, too, though.
Like, if you went out there, you'd become like a voyager in the galaxy.
Right.
And I kind of hovered on this doorway.
And another little being came up and started talking to me about what my options were at this point.
And through the opening of the doorway, I could hear voices that were saying, Come back, Sarah.
You know, what about Zane, which is my son's name?
And I got very annoyed with them because I thought, why are they bothering me about my son?
Of course I'm aware that I'm going to be returning to my son in my body.
But I could hear them kind of clamoring through the doorway.
And so I spoke with this little other being at this doorway and we were talking and suddenly it was kind of like the doorbell with the other world where a voice said, if you pass through this door you can't come back.
And I thought, okay, well I really don't want to go out there right now.
And so I plopped myself back through the door where I came and suddenly I was back in my body and I was in a really brightly lit hospital bed and there were all these tubes sticking into me and I had a respirator in my face and my body was humming with power.
It was just full of electricity but I couldn't move it at all because at that point I was pretty much completely paralyzed.
And yet also, you know, I was full of joy.
I had no fear of death.
I had all this wonderful truth about myself and I couldn't move and I couldn't communicate it to anyone at all.
You couldn't even write then?
Oh no, and I actually, at that point, it seemed like being in the hospital bed and being in my body and being so heavy was Was the abnormal part, you know?
Yes, I know.
That was a jolt, and I really didn't want to be there for a moment.
But then I settled into the fact that, oh well, here I was.
And then as the feeling of electricity faded, then I got the wonderful feeling of pain.
So I knew I was back in my body, because it hurt.
And it's understandable, considering the extent of my injury.
How long was it before you were able to either write or talk?
Talking took a month.
A month?
Because I was on the respirator for almost that whole month, because my lungs had really been pretty badly damaged.
When you could talk, you began to communicate, I'm sure, didn't you?
What happened to you?
I did, and the health practitioners who were wonderful in terms of saving my life were very... they were upset by what I was saying.
They didn't really... they told me basically that The experience that I had was a result of the hallucinations from the fact that I'd been so badly hurt and that none of what I'd experienced was real.
They told you that?
Yes.
And I think that they were doing the best that they could in terms of the context of what they knew.
You know, this is a fantastic occurrence.
They had a job to do which was to keep me alive and that's more what they were concentrating on other than trying to There would be no way for you to correlate the events that you went through to the five times that you flatlined, would there?
something outside what they knew. I don't really think they knew what to do with it.
There would be no way for you to correlate the events that you went
through to the five times that you flatlined, would there?
In other words, there would be... In terms of time? Or even synchronicity.
In other words, you can't put together in your mind... No.
Like, each time I flatlined, I might have been in one of those different worlds or something like that.
Sure.
It would be wonderful to say that happened.
But you don't know that to be true.
I can't honestly say that.
All I can honestly say is that I know they lost me.
And I know that this experience was obviously extended over a long period of time.
Because three days had passed before I returned to my body.
And by then my parents were there and I don't remember actually if I communicated much to them at all about it.
I know I told my close circle of friends but again I met with a great deal of kind of skepticism and again everyone was kind of humoring me because I was so injured.
So I really shut up about it and I shut up about it really until I I came here to Las Vegas and found the little advertisement that Trisha put in one of the papers saying that she had a support group that she was creating for people with near-death experience.
I thought, okay, I'm going to go and I'm going to talk to other people who have had this experience and then I'm not going to feel so alone and frightened and strange.
Have you met in the group or anywhere else anybody who had the experience you had?
I haven't met anybody who has had the same experience that I've had, but I've met other people who have had the same experience in terms of their lives have been transformed in the same way that mine was by the experience that they had.
And how is your life now different?
Well, the biggest thing that I learned from that is that I lost my fear of death.
I lost any fear that I have.
Of the fact that I will lose, upon death, my awareness of who I am.
That is such a comfort.
Daniel Brinkley tells me the same thing all the time.
He just says, I'm not afraid.
I'm not.
No, it's not that I necessarily want to go quickly into that experience again.
But the point is, when it comes, I have an acceptance of it that I wish I could communicate to other people.
Because it is such a joy.
In my ordinary life now, no matter how hard it gets, can really shake my idea of who I am.
And I know that even death will not dissolve my awareness of who I am.
And I think that is one of the biggest things that people worry about when they die.
They feel like they're going to disintegrate and cease to exist.
And that doesn't happen.
I don't believe it happens at all.
I think actually you have wonderful That death is a wonderful adventure, if you'll let it be.
You know, I think that was one of the things about my experience is that death can also have some horrific aspects to it, if that's your choice.
But there's certainly many other avenues of death to explore.
Sarah, why do you think that the horrific aspects of that were your choice?
In my case, I think that they represented fear that I had of dying, because I did have a great fear of dying.
I was very kind of morbid as a child.
I liked horror movies and ghost stories and all that stuff, and I loved scaring myself.
But I was really very afraid of death, and also really very ignorant of death.
I really knew nothing about it.
No one in my immediate circle of family had Had really died where I actually had a good experience of death.
You know, I was ignorant of death and I was afraid of death.
And I think my horrific aspects of my near-death experience represented those things in myself.
Danion Brinkley is now compelled to go to hospices and to help people die.
Yes, that was my first thing too.
The only reason why it never happened was because I was afraid that I would go and present myself to medical practitioners and they would turn me away as a lunatic.
Well, we've got a couple that didn't do that here on the phone.
Sarah, I don't know how to thank you.
I have never heard a story ever, ever like yours, and it was remarkable.
Well, thank you for the opportunity, Art.
It's been wonderful to share it.
I hope that other people will come forward and share their experiences, too, so we can learn more.
Maybe now they will, Sarah.
OK, wonderful.
Thank you, and good night.
OK, thanks.
Bye-bye.
Thank you very much.
All right.
Wow!
Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill back after the break.
Music playing.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye on the wild card line at area code 702-727-1295.
That's area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
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Well I've never heard anything like that before.
Have you?
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell and in a moment we're back to Dr. Jeff Long and Trisha
McGill and there's more because Dr. Long has also had a less than ideal near-death
experience.
Yeah!
I want you.
I've never heard anything like that.
And by the way, we are going to take Sarah's story and compile it into real audio and get it on the website.
I've just never heard anything like that.
Back now to Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill, and I've never heard a story in my life like that.
Well, I've heard the bizarre ones, but that one really tops the cake.
It really is worth creating a supportive environment to allow people to come out and tell their stories like that, isn't it, Art?
Yes, it is.
That is what we do here.
And, Dr. Long, let's follow it up with what happened to you.
You've never told this, apparently, publicly, certainly not on this scale, to anybody before.
Not on national radio or television or anything like that, have you?
Oh, absolutely not.
Art, in my life over the past seven or so years since I had my experience, I've shared it with some very special people, very small groups that I felt safe with.
I understand where Sarah is coming from.
There's a lot of negativism about experiences like that, judgmentalism.
It's very, very difficult for people that have had experiences like that to really come out and share.
I'm still in awe at Sarah's courage.
There's no question about that.
It shows real strength of the Friends of Ions group that we created here in Las Vegas that have allowed people to come out and share experiences like that and really tell the world.
It's made a huge difference in their lives.
Of course, but in your case, you're a mainstream physician of radiation oncology.
Yes.
Oncologist, I guess.
I want to hear your story.
I want to hear what happened to you because it's hard for me to rationalize in my own mind a physician who will come to every possible conclusion other than what Sarah just said being fact or what happened to you which I haven't yet heard.
Sure.
Well, I can tell you, Art, first of all, with regards to Sarah's story, I can tell you as a physician, there is absolutely no drug, there is absolutely no brain chemical change, there is absolutely no loss of oxygen in the brain that has any explanation at all in any size, shape or matter for what Sarah has just shared with us.
That is absolutely the real McCoy.
There's absolutely no other explanation other than the fact, exactly as she said it, that that was the reality of what she encountered.
That is not due to anything medically she encountered, any injury she encountered.
That, what you have heard and what all the listeners tonight have heard, that is the real McCoy.
That's exactly as it happened.
There's no other explanation.
I believe that.
Alright, doctor.
What happened to you and when?
Certainly, as a physician, it's kind of tough to come out and talk about things like that.
I'll start off by saying I'm still in awe at Sarah's story.
My story may not be as dramatic as Sarah's in a lot of ways.
I think that's just the way.
There are different experiences.
All of us, I think, face different kinds of things when we face these kinds of experiences in our life.
Sarah is certainly unique and very, very special.
Nothing that I say, I don't want to take anything away from her.
But nonetheless, certainly the time has come for me to come out of the closet and share a little bit about what I ran into.
You know what I think is special, Art?
What I think is important for your listeners to understand is that what I'm going to describe and what Sarah has already described others may have faced and others may have wrestled with in terms of feeling impaired about sharing it.
They may have encountered negativism when they shared it.
They may have feared other people's judgment.
I think one of the real special things that's happening tonight, Art, is that Sarah and I and a lot of other people, I hope, are coming out of the closet and ready to really share what we've encountered in our life and open up for the first time to an audience like this.
I think that's a real special opportunity and I appreciate it.
Her telling her story, you telling yours, they will bring other people out.
Believe me, Doctor.
Oh, I hope so, Art.
I think that is one of the real end points of what's going on here.
Are you ready, Art?
Yes, sir.
Are you sitting down?
Are you ready to go?
I'm always sitting down.
Okay, so am I. Well, let me tell you, as I mentioned earlier on this show, I only reached a preparedness to share this story only within the past few weeks.
Here's the environment in which I really kind of reached the point of readiness to share this.
I very recently was asked to serve on the board of directors of INS, the International Association of Near-Death Studies.
A remarkable group.
I would recommend it to anybody.
Actually, as an aside, the concept of frightening near-death experiences will be written about in their upcoming newsletter that is published quarterly for only $45 a year membership, $35 for students and seniors.
People can get this publication.
It's due out in March.
There will be three others for the price of the membership.
You can reach INS at area code 860-644.
Five, two, one, six.
My involvement with IANS has certainly touched my life and here art is the rest of the story.
Several weeks ago I was at the IANS board meeting and I told the story that I'm about to share with the rest of the listeners here.
I've told the story before.
I've shared it with a few special people and in a few small group situations.
But this time when I told the story before the IANS board members.
I kind of felt that I had finally reached a point in my life where I could really reach out and share this with the rest of the world.
It's an interesting experience.
Certainly, it's not anywhere near as dramatic as Sarah, but it has certainly touched my life.
While I went through the horror of the initial experience, there has been incredible hope in terms of how it has changed my life.
I'm ready to share tonight.
Let me start at the very beginning here.
This is going to take a little while, so are we ready?
We are.
It was probably ten years ago.
I was married with my first wife.
At that time, I knew that she had some psychic abilities.
I knew that she had some information and dreams.
As a person who had been raised in a scientific family, I really kind of poo-pooed the idea.
I said, there's no way.
How can you have these kinds of psychic abilities or information and dreams that can't really be measured in any scientific way?
I kind of believed her, but yet I didn't in another way.
Anyway, it kind of continued that way until my ex-wife was pregnant with her first child.
At that time, things changed.
The very first time that I noticed something was very much different from how it had been was when I woke up one night from a dream.
At the time of this dream, I dreamed about Buffalo Nichols.
You may not know about Buffalo Nichols, or a lot of people know, but they were minted between 1913 and 1938.
It's been decades, Art, since they've been in circulation.
But when I woke with this dream of this sense about Buffalo Nichols, there was a very unusual sensation I had upon awakening that I had never had before.
I woke up and I said, geez, what is this funny sensation?
What does this mean about Buffalo Nichols?
I was confused.
I had no idea.
I'd never encountered this.
I wrestled with it for a while and just couldn't figure it out.
But Art, two days later I was standing in line at a cafeteria ready to buy some lunch.
I looked down into the coin box at the line I was paying for my food for and lo and behold there were eight buffalo nickels.
The cashier said, you know, funniest thing, the person ahead of you paid for their food with these buffalo nickels.
I don't know if you've ever encountered anything like that in your life, but I was just in Instantly, upon seeing those buffalo nickels, I recalled that dream that I had several days before.
I said, something is absolutely incredible going on here.
Indeed.
It was bizarre.
The cashier just saw me staring at these buffalo nickels in silence and said, well, if you want them, they are a nickel a piece.
I still have those buffalo nickels to this day.
They are a very reminder of how my life was beginning to change.
Well, that's what a lot of people would call synchronicity.
Unbelievable synchronicity.
And you know what?
That was just the very, very beginning shot.
Things were to get even more interesting beyond that.
Following that, while my ex-wife was pregnant with the first child that we were to have, I had a number of these kinds of dreams which were associated with this sensation upon awakening, which I can't really describe except as a sign of a sensation that this is real, this is valid, kind of a tingling feeling.
And it was always associated with dreams that would come true.
Another one of the real dramatic kind of hits, if you will, is I woke up and I said, Hey, I sense this number.
And I had this vision of a number and it was circled in ink and had kind of a little curlicue around it.
And when I woke up I said, Aha!
There's absolutely no way this could be true.
What's this about this number with a circle around it and a little curlicue?
I've got it.
Now there's no way that could make any sense in the real world.
Well, that very day I was going up.
I was in my residency training at that time.
And I went up into the locker room the very next day to do a surgical procedure.
And while I was up in the locker room, I said, geez, I remember that number that had a circle around it.
What if that's a locker number?
So, I said, hmm.
I went to the very corner of the locker room where I had never been before.
This is not something I had ever had any prior chance to observe.
But often in a corner of the locker room that I'd never been before, I sought out that locker number that I saw in my dream that had the circle with the curly Q around it.
And to my absolute awe, I saw that number on that locker with a circle around it.
Don't ask me why.
I have no idea who did it.
But there it was exactly as I saw it in my dream, circled with a little curly Q to the upper right hand corner.
I remember it like it was yesterday, Art.
You know, I saw that and I said, there's something going on here, something very significant.
I have this sensation when I wake up with a dream and these things happen.
So this was intensifying?
Oh, it was intensifying.
It was incredible.
I have notes on these dreams and this happened again and again and again.
The same kind of sensation upon awakening and invariably what I had visualized or perceived it would come about happened.
The only thing that I was a little confused about at the time is that twice upon awakening I had this very strong sensation that this was going to be true, that this was going to be real, but it was associated with the dream of a baby boy.
Don't forget, my ex was pregnant with our first child, and so I said, gee, this has happened twice.
Clearly, this means that we're going to have a baby boy.
So, at the end of all this, my ex delivered, and we were expecting a baby boy, and guess what, Art?
It was a baby girl.
A baby girl?
Yeah.
Now, I was shocked at the time, and I said, this is the very first time that I've had this very strong, distinct sensation that the dream was going to be true, and it came out something different.
But then a day or two later I thought, hey, this is only the first child.
And Art, indeed, I have a beautiful, wonderful child, my first born, who is a girl, Alicia.
But Art, the next two children I had were boys.
And that nailed it.
At that point in time I really got it.
At least there was a sensation associated upon awakening that I had never experienced before that meant that it was going to be real or true.
Alright?
After the first child was born, I never had this sensation again for years and years and years.
I finished up my residency.
I went out into private practice of radiation oncology.
I was in a particular position where I was undergoing an incredible amount of stress.
I'm sure.
I know physicians have stressful jobs.
I've been there and I've done that, but nothing could compare to the stress and the incredible pressure that I felt while I was in this
particular position.
I really, really felt like it was harming me a great deal.
Working way too many hours on call all the time, that kind of thing?
Oh, let me tell you this, Art.
When I was going through this time in my life, I saw my children, my beloved children, awake
maybe two or three hours a week.
Okay?
Yeah, that tough.
No, I do understand.
I appreciate that.
This is what I was going through at this time in my life.
I was out at a national meeting and it was quite away from where I was practicing at that point in time, but at that point I had this incredible dream.
It was the last day of the meeting that I was at and prior to going to bed that night I turned the alarm clock ahead by about 15 minutes to a time that the clock had never been set at any time prior to that week.
So, this is sort of the first time I was going to get up this late in the day, but I thought I needed the rest.
I was just so tired and worn out and recovering from the incredible life stress I was going through.
So, I went ahead and did that and I fell asleep.
Well, I went through this incredible series of dissociative images in the dream.
I felt that a patient had died as a result of my failure.
I felt that I had seen myself in a...
No, but I'm visualizing it.
It's a one.
I mean, it's a one.
The number one.
as consequences of stress.
Yes.
But the real kicker, if you will, at the end of this dream, I was standing in a living
room in my home looking off towards a wall and right there I saw a huge glowing one of
light.
It was the shape of a one.
A little curly Q at the top.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
No, but I'm visualizing it.
Yeah, it's a one.
I mean it's a one.
The number one.
Yes.
Of light.
It glowed with a light I had never seen in my life.
You know, with kind of an intensity that was absolutely indescribable.
I mean, it was a one.
I had never seen that before.
As I looked at this wand of light and stared at it, just absolutely in awe of what I was seeing, something that I had never seen before.
I didn't understand.
While I was standing looking at that, I fell over dead.
I knew this in the dream.
This is no illusion.
I am a scientist.
I have done a lot of research.
I can be incredibly objective.
Of all that I know about what's true and what's real, I died right in that dream.
I'm very clear about that.
I fell forward and I died.
Kind of shocking, huh?
I have never died in a dream.
I had never died in a dream.
I had never gone through anything like that.
But what's even more dramatic is that while I fell forward and died and knew full well that I died in that dream, while I was awakening I had that same sense of reality and truth that I'd had all those years before in those dreams I had upon awakening.
But Art, let me tell you, this was off the scale.
This was absolutely far beyond anything I'd ever felt before.
Instantly I knew this is true and this is real, but of a level and a scale far outside of my experience.
And then, what's more, while I was awakening, with my eyes tightly closed without opening my eyes at all, I had a sense The alarm clock is going to go off in about three seconds.
I will have to get up, live my life, and someday understand.
Art, I had my eyes tight closed.
I swear I never opened my eyes.
And from sitting there absolutely petrified of the visions I had seen in my dream, laying in that bed, absolutely never opening my eyes, from the moment I awoke, about three seconds later the alarm clock went off.
I opened my eyes and was just absolutely stunned at all that I had been through.
I had never in my life seen myself die like that.
I had never seen a wand of light like that.
It was absolutely outside of my life experience.
Wow.
It was spooky.
Well, I got up and went to the meeting that I was going to and started taking some notes at the time of the meeting, but I couldn't concentrate.
I put some notes on a little piece of paper and that was the end of that.
It was pretty spooky.
All right, doctor.
Hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill are my guests.
Dr. Long is a radiation oncologist.
Tricia McGill is a licensed psychologist.
I'm Art Bell.
And you will find me, time after time.
Before I will catch you, I'll be waiting.
I'm Art Bell.
And you will find me, time after time.
Before I will catch you, I'll be waiting.
So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.
go ahead and get started.
Music.
.
you So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to
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This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Bell.
Good morning.
I'm already being inundated for requests, so anybody out there wanting a copy of this program, First of all, believe me, I understand.
Second of all, please listen carefully.
I'm going to give you the number.
It's a good 24-hour number.
It's going to be a four-hour program.
And the number is 1-800-917-4278.
That's a good 24-hour number, even now.
Four hours, folks.
1-800-917-4278.
Because I've never heard anything like that.
that's good twenty four hour number even now
four hours folks one eight hundred nine one seven four two seven eight
because i've never heard anything like that will be back with uh... dr jeff long and trisha mcgill
in uh...
Jeff Long, again, that's quite a story.
Sarah's was an incredible story.
But I want to come all the way back to where I was, I don't know, two and a half hours ago or something.
And that is, here's something that I think bothers me.
If good people And Sarah sounded like a good person.
She is.
Or yourself and others can have these terribly frightening, horrifying, near-death experiences.
Then to me, in a way, it hangs a gigantic question mark, not medically, physiologically, but spiritually, over the whole question.
It kind of hangs a big question mark.
How do you resolve Apparently good people, better people than myself, having these kinds of experiences.
Why doesn't that hang a big question mark over the whole thing, or does it?
First of all, I would like to affirm you.
You're an incredible person and we all greatly respect your show.
But first of all, I guess one of the things that I would say from the experience that Sarah and I had, and a lot of other people we've talked to, Well, I don't know if I do.
There is a heaven.
near-death experiences do indeed suggest, and actually persuasively, that indeed there
is a heaven and, oh art there is a hell, but not as endpoints.
That's not where you end up at.
It's part of what you go through in your spiritual journey.
It's part of what the growth is all about.
And that's why we go through this.
Do you understand?
Well I don't know if I do.
There is a heaven, there is a hell.
we move through both Sarah seemed to and in her story.
Then there is one more thing, and that of course is, Sarah went flatline five times.
You had your experience in a dream, or maybe not.
I don't know if you want to call it a dream.
Maybe we should define what a near-death experience is.
Maybe we should, yeah.
The definition, I think one of the best definitions comes from the organization that I'm serving
with, INC, the International Association of Near-Death Studies.
First of all, let me just, as an interlude, indicate that if anybody has had a frightening or less than positive near-death study, you really want to call INS at 860 644-5216.
You mean experience, right?
Yeah.
What was the number again, please?
Yeah, it's 860-644-5216.
I can do better than that.
Listen, all of the lines right now, everybody hang up.
I can do better than that.
You watch what I can do.
Okay.
Everybody hang up out there.
Stop calling, please.
And only those who have had an experience Like Sarah's, or like the doctor's, call in.
Only those of you who have had a near-death experience, horrifying, call in.
You know what the numbers are.
So, go ahead, Doctor, and I'll just let that hang for a while, and believe me, we'll get some.
Well, I hope so.
Aren't you doing a tremendous service to people that have had experiences like Sarah and I have had?
We face the judgment of people that we share this experience with, the negativism, The unwillingness to hear, it's really refreshing to have an opportunity like this to really share what we've been through and say, hey, this is really okay.
It's something that people really should be okay sharing.
I really appreciate your willingness to open up the lines to people like that.
Let's talk a little bit about what a near-death experience really is.
I think a lot of that is a little bit confusing to a lot of people.
I've grown a lot since I started studying near death experience.
At the very dawn of near death experience research that I was doing a long time ago, I really felt that the only true or real near death experience was associated with an experience in which someone basically died.
They flat lined.
Yeah, clinical death.
Yeah, but now that I've grown a little bit and become a little more open minded, I now have a different idea about that.
I guess my way of looking at it now is that, well, A true NDE may well occur when a person is close to death.
In fact, they seem to be fairly common shortly before actual physical death.
However, the NDE is actually one of a family of virtually identical experiences which may happen without being close to death.
Now, although approaching death is a reliable, if you will, trigger, an experience may be associated with, as in my case, severe stress, Or, in the case of many others we've talked to, deep prayer, religious observance, meditation, or a variety of non-threatening physiological situations or other circumstances.
It's really hard to label these experiences.
These other experiences really don't have a name.
They've been called by a lot of people, if you will, mystical, spiritual, conversion, spiritual emergencies.
But with the organization that I serve, INS, the International Association of Near-Death Studies, they're commonly lumped together under the term near-death experiences.
How do you, just before we go to the lions, which we're going to do, then you can both ask questions, how do you rationalize as a physician what Sarah said or what you experienced As being real, knowing all the physiological possibilities.
That would be my pleasure to answer, Art.
I have known a lot of people that have been near death or that have been in drug overdoses.
They've been in a whole variety of situations in which they've been through some extremes of physiology.
Let me assure you and your entire listening audience, Art, that people that are hypoxic, if you will, which means low blood oxygen.
People that are not breathing well, people that are near death.
These people do not have lucid experiences like Sarah has been through, like I've been through, or so many others have been through.
The state actually seems to be more of a confused state.
And that's not what you hear with near death experiences.
In fact, the very definition of what we have in terms of our study of near death experience involves, in the very first two words, a lucid, that means a vivid, real, Not dreamlike state.
That's what defines the near-death experience from being a typical dream, potentially an anesthetic reaction.
That's what really defines what's going on here.
The more we know about near-death experience, the more we respect the diversity of spiritual experiences that people have had.
Even a good model of what's going on in the brain during a near-death experience really won't explain it well.
There's no way that you can explain away what happens in terms of the experience, and there's no way you can explain away the powerful after effects commonly reported with near-death experiencers, that being the sense of purpose and the meaning of life that you saw so vividly in Sarah, and it's certainly been such a vivid experience in my life.
That's part of what near-death experience really is all about.
All right.
Let's see what we've got out there.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
Where are you?
Yes, sir.
You're going to have to speak up good and loud for us here.
Yeah, I've had seven near-death experiences.
They've all basically been fairly the same, each one, but there's like an evolution of them.
By that I mean a progression.
By that I mean it gets better or I get more comfortable with it each time it happens.
It seems to be positive each time, but it's still very negative.
In what sense?
I go through a three-step level every time.
I go through this massive negative part of it.
I don't really know how to communicate it very well, but it's like a hell.
I get overwhelmed with guilt when it's happening, more than any guilt that you would ever feel within reality.
Are these brought on in what you think is a dream state, or did you really have a physical?
No, there's never been any physical death experience.
I don't know if it's hypnosis, like self-hypnosis, or it just sort of comes on and it just happens.
I die, and I know it's happening.
I don't really understand it.
All right, Dr. Long, very much like yours, except with the difference that his were progressive.
In other words, you pick up where you left off.
I've heard that a lot.
Oh, that's very common, Art.
Is it?
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
People that have had multiple near-death experiences, and we've encountered a number of their stories, often seem to go through a series of growth.
As they go through each experience, they seem to have If you will, more and more of a positive experience, more and more of an understanding.
It seems to be part of the whole growth that we go through.
It's very interesting.
I'm sure this gentleman has encountered the same thing with his experiences.
Okay, first time caller line.
You're on the air with Drs.
Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hi.
Yes, hi Art.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Los Angeles.
You also are going to have to yell at us because you're not very strong.
Okay, hear me now.
Yeah, that's much better, thank you.
About 20 years ago, I had an NDE and it happened in my sleep.
But as I was sleeping, I felt suddenly that I was having an OBE.
I felt like I was flying.
I flew to a very familiar place to me in a canyon.
I saw these people, and I went down to where they were, and they didn't seem to be aware of me.
Somebody had actually fallen down an embankment, and I went to help.
The minute I went out to touch somebody, everything went black, completely black.
I was completely, fully awake at that point, in just complete, utter, total darkness.
I really felt removed from all God's creation.
Kind of like the place Sarah described.
Yeah, I mean, I was utterly so aware of everything, but also aware that I kind of panicked, because I felt like, OK, I'm in trouble here.
Something's not right.
And then I felt this incredible feeling of velocity, like I was traveling through some kind of tunnel at a very high speed, which was very scary.
But it ended with A crushing sensation.
I feel like I was being squeezed into my body.
I laid there for quite a few minutes.
Eventually I moved a finger to make sure that I was back where I should be.
As I was regaining consciousness, or as I was getting my bearings, I got up and the bed was all wet and everything.
I got up and said, what the heck happened?
What she described sounded a lot like what happened to me without the Well, I know that.
I know it's hard to describe.
It is hard to put in words.
Believe me, I understand that.
You know, Art, a real classic word used to describe these experiences is ineffable.
The word means you simply can't put the experience in words.
That's so typical of what The barriers are people trying to describe the rather profound experiences they've been through.
I was wondering if maybe I had... I wasn't at home.
I had been working late that night and I actually went upstairs where I was working and slept on a cot in a sleeping bag.
I mean because I wasn't at home I wasn't in my bed.
I just got up and paced around and said, what the heck just happened to me?
Did I lose consciousness?
Was I suffocating in the sleeping bag?
Was I having sleep apnea?
As I said, I don't know if it was actually NDE or OBE gone terribly bad.
I really don't know that much about it.
Believe me, I understand, and I want to thank you for the call, and I'm going to pause for a specific reason here for a moment.
Right back.
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well i was trying to get through to somebody uh... that uh... sent me a very very interesting email
and uh... i'm gonna read it to you I'm going to try to get through to them here at the top of the hour.
I didn't manage it because I couldn't get a line.
But here it is.
I listened to Sarah about her experience while she was in... Let me see.
Let me bring back up everybody.
Do we have everybody here?
No, just coming in.
Tricia?
Yeah, I'm here.
And Dr. Long?
He just came back.
Okay, I'm not hearing Dr. Long for some reason.
Uh, but hold on.
Let me see.
Let's try it this way.
Dr. Long?
But for some reason, we're not getting your audio.
No, I can hear you.
It's kind of like you're in a different world.
Anyway, I listened to Sarah about her experience while she was in a near-death syndrome.
I would like to have you go to my website and he listed because I was in a six-month coma after an accident in Africa.
He said he calls it a brief experience into eternity.
And he met a spiritual director while he was in the coma.
And I would like to call this person in Colorado and get them on the air.
And I intend to do so at the top of the hour.
I'll probably end up waking them up, but I'm going to give it a try.
So let's see now.
Let's try this one other way.
Doctor, do I have you back yet?
No, for some unbeknownst reason to me, we have you, Tricia, but the doctor is kind of like in another dimension for us right now.
We can correct this, of course, here at the top of the hour.
Tricia, from your point of view, since we have you most strongly, Do you see any parallel between NDEs, Saris, the doctors, the others that have been described so far, and out-of-body experiences or induced NDEs like with drug X and so forth and so on?
Are we talking about the same thing or not?
Well, let me explain to you.
This is what I told on the last show I was on about OBE, out-of-body experiences.
Yes.
It does not necessarily have to be connected in any way to an NDE.
You can have OBEs every night as you sleep, and you know you went around Paris and had yours, right?
Sure.
Okay.
Anyway, excuse me, I've got a flu, so that's why I'm kind of going to cough here a little bit.
That's another good question.
Almost everybody I know right now has the flu.
I've never seen anything like it.
Oh, it's horrible, isn't it?
Yes, it's... Doctor, don't bother talking.
We can't hear you.
Yeah, he's here, but he... I know he's trying to talk, but literally, I know somebody who just died of the flu, pneumonia following the flu, and pneumonia into the flu, and everybody I know, including my boss and people up at the network and everybody I talk to is sick.
Yeah, yeah, it's nasty.
Whatever's going around, I've got it bad.
And here I am staying up to three, but I enjoy the opportunity to reach this many people, so if a sacrifice is well worth it.
Back to the OBE question you had.
Yes.
An OBE is not necessarily connected with an NDE, but an NDE always starts with an OBE.
Oh, now that's interesting.
Always, yes.
An OBE always is the beginning, because you see what an OBE is, by definition, is a separation of the spirit or soul from the physical body.
So before you can have any of these experiences, you have to separate from the physical body.
How do you delineate between the destinations one might take in an OBE versus an NDE?
Well, an OBE, I think you can pretty much do whatever you want.
I've had two really terrifying or distressful OBEs.
One was, and they're both verifiable by the way, one was back in the early 70s and I was at the scene of a plane crash right outside Paris, France.
And I noticed that there was only one person alive.
Doctor, hold it.
That's a good cliffhanger point anyway.
We're at the top of the hour.
we'll be right back.
Music To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S., first, dial your access number to the USA.
Then, 800-893-0903.
If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222.
If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222.
From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
Call Art at 1-800-618-8255.
Or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
It's exactly what it is.
Dr. Jeff Long and Dr. Tricia McGill are here.
Dr. Long is a oncologist.
And Dr. McGill is a clinical psychologist, and we are discussing NDEs, near-death experiences of the less than fully palatable sort.
And we'll be back to it right after this.
We are back in communication again.
Do we have the two of you back on?
Uh-oh.
Oh, are we back on?
I don't know.
Are you there?
Yeah, we're here.
Okay, you're there.
I'm here, Jeff.
Just coming back from another bathroom break.
Okay, Jeff?
Yes.
Okay, boy.
Thought I had lost you guys.
No, we're here.
Alright.
There are a number of people who would like to speak with you.
So, Wildcard Line, you are now on the air with Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
My name is Jan, and I'm from Greensboro, North Carolina.
Yes, Jan.
And my situation happened January 4th, 1984.
I was 55 at the time.
I had been bedridden for over two years with severe spasmodic asthma, and I knew I just couldn't hang on any, just couldn't go on much longer.
My body was just getting weaker.
And I heard about this specialist, his name is Dr. Mathieson, I heard about this specialist and when I tried to locate him, well my husband did all this because I wasn't able to do it, he found that he had moved to Cherokee, which is up in the mountains next to the reservation.
So he called him and told him that I was in pretty bad shape and could, and he said, well could you bring her, this was on a Thursday, he said could you bring her on Saturday, because it was his wife, it was his Anyway, some sort of a family celebration, and he wasn't to skip that day.
And Friday morning came, and I said to my husband, I can't go another day.
If I don't go today, I'm going to die.
So he called up Dr. MacPherson, and he said, bring her.
He said, I'll be there at four o'clock.
Which it took us six hours driving into the mountains, and I didn't know how much longer I could go on.
And he was there, just like he said.
Old man, he was about 75.
Had three fingers on one hand.
My x-ray and I came in a wheelchair and I was up on the examination table on my hands and knees because that was the best way to breathe and I looked up at the clock and it said 4 15 and all of a sudden I felt like a marionette whose strings had been cut and I said oh no I've come all this way and I'm so sick I just I can't go on I just can't go on anymore and I started Tapping on the side of the table and the old doctor looked up at me and then I wrote in the air and he said to the little nurse, the only ones in the hospital was the doctor and the little nurse, and he said, give her a pencil and a piece of paper, she's trying to tell me something.
And I wrote on the paper, help me, I'm dying.
And I just fell over.
What it was, was complete cardiac arrest.
And the next thing I knew, and I can honestly say that in the 70 years of my life, it was the most horrible experience I'd ever had.
I was completely paralyzed.
I couldn't even blink an eye or lift a finger.
I was absolutely paralyzed from the top of my head to the tip of my toes.
But my brain was working and it was clear.
My brain was clear.
And I kept, you know, I said, I can't let him know I'm here.
I'm alive.
I'm dead inside this body.
Yeah.
And so I kept saying, I kept saying, Oh God, please don't let me die.
Cause I had a 13 year old boy, you know, son back in Greensboro.
And I said, I can't die now.
He needs me.
I've got to take care of it.
I kept begging, please.
I can't go now.
Don't take me.
And I kept trying to move something and I couldn't.
And I heard this voice, and it was a very, it was very irritated.
It was an irritable voice, rather gruff with me.
And I think he called me dummy, I think.
Dummy?
I remember him being a little rude.
He said, dummy, you've got your brain, use it.
And I started thinking, and I kept saying, I kept thinking and thinking to the doctor, you know, don't give up, I'm here.
Just keep trying, keep trying, I'm here.
I don't know what happened.
Blank, blank, blank.
Then the same thing happened again.
Time passed.
The same identical thing happened again, except it wasn't so bad because I knew if I'd have to think like I did before.
It wasn't the panic that I'd felt before.
The only thing I remember at all was I heard a voice saying, her nose is too small.
We're going to have to go down her throat.
The next thing I remember As I came to in this room, this is a part that was not, but it's part of it that was important.
I came to in this room and I knew I was on a respirator, I could hear it.
And I looked over and my husband was sitting on the bed and I looked in his eyes and the look was, why didn't you die?
That I wouldn't have this problem anymore.
And I turned my head and faced the wall.
I went out again and time passed again and I looked up at this big clock in this room and it said, I appreciate that story.
There you are.
I was in the hospital for four hours and the old doctor was standing by me and he was smiling
at me and he said, Jan, you don't know what you put me through.
I said, Doctor, I don't feel all that great myself.
And this doctor, and I found out later, was a Seventh Day Adventist.
And he and his wife had knelt beside my bed all night long praying for me.
Alright, I appreciate that story.
There you are.
That sure is a negative one.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Wow.
Okay, first time calling the line.
You're on the air with Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
This kind of ties in with a bunch of different things that Dr. Long was talking about, and Tricia also.
Where are you?
I'm in Minneapolis.
Alright.
My name is Bridget.
I'm listening to you on KSTP 1500.
Okay, speak up good and loud.
What happened was, ever since I was young, I've dreamt the future, like you were talking about, Dr. Long.
And I know when those dreams are going to come true.
And I had dreamt my father's death, and it came true.
And it never sat right with me, but I knew he was always with me as a child.
And I was involved in an accident where I had a rollover.
I rolled over four times, and he was there holding me while I was in the car.
I was the only one with a seatbelt, and I got hurt the worst.
And when the car stopped rolling, I had been knocked out of my body.
And I thought, oh, I'm having a flying dream.
I'm flying.
Look at the trees and the air is so beautiful in the sky.
And I was like, oh, this is nice.
I can fly around.
And I was flying all around and I realized, wait a minute, I was just in an accident.
Why am I flying?
And I looked down and there was the car in a wreck and there was me half out of the car.
And I was like, oh, that's me.
I'm not flying.
I'm dying.
I don't know what to do.
And I looked up, and it was like a vortex between me and the top of the clouds, like in the atmosphere.
And it was swirling with clouds, and it was as if it was just to another dimension.
It was just to another realm.
It was to eternity.
And I sensed it was eternity, because I always felt like I was a part of a star, and we are all a part of stars.
And I was like, wow, that's home.
I can go there.
That almost sounds like what Sarah saw.
Yeah, but I didn't go into it quite yet.
I saw it there and it was spinning and swirling and it was pulling me upwards, but I was still free to move about.
It took a minute to understand exactly what was happening and then my life started to flash before me.
Just boom, boom, boom, all these good things, all these bad things, all this self-reflection and mistakes and achievements and successes and love and different emotions and different times in my life were flashing.
I realized, wow, I'm 18 years old, and I'm here, and I know I have something to bring, and I know I have something to give.
It's not time yet, and I started to beg, and there was this pulling, but the pulling was like, I can't say God because it's too big to just say God, but everything that is was right there inside that vortex.
And it was everything.
It was every emotion, every thought, every dream, every reality was there.
And it was there and it was saying, I'm here.
Here I am.
You've known this is it.
You've known what's here.
You've known this is to come.
Come in.
Come.
And it was just kind of pulling me like a wind, like a feather on the wind.
And I just was going upwards and flying.
And then I was like, But I like life.
I want to be here.
I start to value my life, just realizing there is so much ahead that I want to bring to life.
I started to pull backwards towards my body like a rope.
You know if you travel out of body and you build ropes to stay?
It was kind of like that, but I wasn't aware of it.
I started to pull towards my body again and I was pulling back down.
And going closer and it kept pulling harder because I was getting higher.
I was above the trees by then and I was pulling and pulling and pulling and swimming like against a current, a very strong current and all of a sudden it was like a big slam and I was in my body and there was just blackness and I opened my eyes and I had blood in my eyes and I opened my eyes and I looked up and there was a state trooper there trying to revive me and I said, Oh my gosh, I'm here and you're going to save me.
He said, yeah, people are on their way to help you.
And I said, that's okay.
I've watched Rescue 911.
I know what's going to happen.
Just let me think for a minute.
And I thought, okay, I'm here now.
I don't have to die, but I know it's there.
And I know God was there.
And I know, I mean, I can't say it's just God because it was everything all at once.
But it happened that I was brought to the hospital and had a long, two eight and a half
hour reconstructive bone surgeries and I had broken my body and they weren't sure if I
was going to walk again and stuff.
I had a really long recovery but the whole time I was recovering I just remembered that
time of flying and remembered the awesome power inside of that vortex, that awesome
power that I knew was a part of me and a part of everyone and a part of life itself.
we have here now.
I drew upon that every day through healing meditation.
I told my body to use its cells.
I told my bones to heal.
I used this medicine.
I stopped taking pain medication because it messed with my ability to meditate.
I used that power that I felt to tell my body to reconstruct itself.
Finally, nine months later, they gave me crutches after a long time of therapy and staying in a nursing home.
I was able to really fully recover.
I just went back for my three-year exam and he said that I'm the best case scenario.
Out of all the reconstructive surgeries he's done on acetabulums, because that's what I broke, just the whole structure there, the femur.
I had punctured a lung and fractured a rib and I had a concussion.
It took a long time, but using that power to reconstruct myself and to bring that to my life, I didn't really see what was beyond the vortex.
I really didn't get a sense or have choices like Sarah was speaking of, of going and seeing all the different realms.
But I knew it was just too awesome to ever question again.
You have a classic NDE which I would dearly love to get up on our website.
You know we have a non-profit corporation, a research foundation to study near death experiences to share with the world.
Could you please, please type your, if this is possible, type up your story.
And then email it to us and we will scan it into our website.
Are you able to do that, huh?
Yes, I am.
What is the address?
Okay, Jeff, give them the address like off.
Yeah, you could either, certainly if you could email it to us, that would be great.
We could just put it right into our website.
If you type it to us, the best way to, if you type it and mail it to us, please mail it to NDERF, that's N-D-E-R-F, and that's post office box 36543.
Las Vegas, Nevada, 89133.
Did you get that?
Yeah, PO36543.
Las Vegas, Nevada, did you get the zip?
89133.
Yes.
89133.
We really would like to get anybody else out there who is listening to send us their NDEs
too and we can put them up on the web.
But I have an interesting...
If there is any way I could just really fast share it?
Yes, please.
Before we do that, can I say one quick plea?
We're looking into trying to find Spanish speaking NDE experiencers.
I think we're really breaking some ground tonight, Art, and ground that really needs to be broken.
That is, people are coming out and sharing their experiences in a way that they never have before.
If there are any Spanish speaking NDE experiencers, I hope they would contact a radio station, And they can reach Maria there, who's seeking this for a series on NDE experiences.
And that's at area code 305-884-9650.
And we're very interested in finding experiencers for this television station, the largest Spanish-speaking television station, as far as I know, in the Western Hemisphere.
Okay, really fast.
I know we're running out of time.
Anybody that wants to hear this or read this whole story can go to our website and check it out.
But I will just tell you, this is very interesting.
This is one of the most unique and terrifying Indies I've ever heard of.
This is very scary too.
I think we should advise the listeners there that this is spooky.
Back in 1969, a gentleman by the name of Keith was in Vietnam.
He was doing his patriotic duty and he was also a Green Beret trainer of combat.
Because in high school and everything he was kind of a very competitive, macho, testosterone driven young man.
and was excelling in all kinds of sports.
He had this really competitive edge.
When he went into the Green Beret he carried that competitive edge over and was really
tough and macho.
He trained men to be tough and macho too.
Kill numbers made all the difference.
He never considered his enemy or victims as you might call them to be anything but just
numbers.
He was just getting more callous by the day.
Well anyway, at one point in time he did get hit by mortar rounds and he saw himself basically outside of his body.
That's an OBE start, you know, start of an NDE.
Sure.
And he was sucked down through the ground and he saw a medic there who was working on him and he was eye to eye with this medic.
He was supposedly much taller.
He was a six foot four inch guy and here he was eye to eye with this medic who was bending over his dead body.
The medic was working on him and he fell through the earth, mind you, and fell into a pit.
The pit was full of blood and guts and body parts.
He was up to his waist in this.
He looked around and he could see a pinpoint of light way off in the distance.
And he felt that if he could go there he could somehow get out of this hellish environment.
So not only did he have to wade through a thick stew of body parts, but he also had many people that he had inadvertently or directly murdered in this war on the banks of this pit who were screaming and yelling at him.
And there were people with missing legs, missing arms.
And they were grabbing at him.
None of them got him, but they were grabbing at him as he sloshed his way through what he felt like was ten miles of really the most gross, smelly, disgusting body parts, blood and guts the whole way.
And one little girl really seemed to catch his attention because she had at one time Earlier he had killed her because he had just given a lecture about how the enemy used little girls and little boys to walk into the midst of soldiers and they don't know any better.
They just are doing what they're told.
They pull a little pin and blow themselves up and take a bunch of soldiers with them.
This little girl had something in a bag and she reached in and he was watching her and he drew a bead on her.
And she was amongst a bunch of soldiers trying to get their attention and then he saw something small and black in her hand and so he blew the top of her head off.
Well this was like a little six year old girl and she kept following him around with part of her head blown off screaming at him in Vietnamese which he could hear perfectly well.
And he had learned later on after he killed her that She was in the midst of the camp trying to find a kind soldier who would give a little puppy a home because she didn't want it to be on that night's menu.
Her mother was getting ready to put it in the stew pot and serve it up.
She was trying to find somebody.
He thought it was a grenade.
This little girl kept following him.
Where the others were staying put, this little girl followed him with the top of her head blown off, screaming at him.
He said it was the worst nightmare he ever had.
I don't think so.
through in his whole life.
When he got to the end of the light, where he was at the end of this trough, he was so
relieved to see one of his good buddies that had died in a hunting accident the year before
he went to Vietnam, and before the man we are talking about went to Vietnam.
And this guy put his arms around him and said, I'm so sorry we had to do this to you, but
you were getting just too callous and that wasn't the true you.
You were starting to get to enjoying, you know, like a game, shooting people.
Well, after that, the next thing that happened to him, he came to an Army hospital and he said he changed his ways right from that point on.
And to this day, he does a lot of charity work with children and women.
That would change you alright.
Oh, he changed really fast.
All right, Tricia, we've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
Wow.
Well, this is a night I'll not forget for a while.
Again, to get a copy of this program, please folks, don't email me.
The number is 1-800-917-4278.
Don't fax me.
1-800-917-4278. Don't fax me. If you want a copy of the program, it's 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278.
From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222 and you may fax Art at area code
702-727-8499. Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now again, here's Art.
Here we go again.
Welcome back, you two.
Hi.
Hi.
Quite an evening, huh?
Yeah.
Remarkable.
Groundbreaking.
Remarkable is right.
All right.
Well, if you like, we will continue.
We'll get the information out one more time for your website and the rest of it at the end of the program.
Okay.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Long and Dr. McGill.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Okay.
Hello, Art.
Yes, sir.
Hi.
How are you doing?
It's very interesting that you have this subject tonight because it's the same thing I've been trying to tell people for almost 20-some years now.
It's like they don't want to believe it or they think it's unbelievable.
Well, what happened to you?
Well, I was in the Marine Corps.
Between 1975 and 1973.
I remember I was up around Wake City in Pleiku.
I was at the Special Forces Encampment there.
I get all choked up when I talk about it and everything like that, but you have to bear with me.
I remember we were being overrun.
I remember a lot of fire and a lot of firefighting and everything like that was going on.
Was this Tet?
No, Tet was in 1968.
This was in the 70s.
I remember sitting there and trying to take my breath and everything like that because
we were getting a lot of fire and they were coming like ants and everything else like
this.
Well a partner of mine sitting next to me, he got shot first and I remember when he splattered
all over the place and everything like that I kind of looked over at him.
I was in awe and I was just speaking to the guy.
And next thing I know something had knocked me backwards where I was at and everything
like that.
And I remember that I took a breath and then all of a sudden I was in a coma.
I don't know, it felt like something was draining out of me, okay?
And I was laying partly on my side and I felt the warm blood and everything like that running down the side of my face and I know that my eye was knocked out of my, out of the socket and everything.
I was like this and I said, well, I couldn't move my body, I couldn't move my limbs, I couldn't, you know, it was hard for me to even breathe.
The only thing I could think about was my mother at the time or the people I left behind
because I had just gotten married in San Diego and my wife was expecting a child and everything
like that.
It seemed like it was forever but the next thing I know I heard this soft voice and it
rolled me over.
It actually rolled me over and there was this lady that was standing there and I recognized
it because it was my wife with a little kid in her arms like okay.
And there were like little sparkles coming off of her and she was reaching down and she
was touching me and she was telling me I was going to be alright and that I would see her
again.
And I remember taking that last breath that it hurt so bad that then I went into darkness
okay.
And my eyes were just like, just like if you passed out or you know how you hyperventilate sometimes or whatever it may be.
Yes.
And next thing I know I was being flung out of my body like if you take two positive sides of a magnet and they push, you know, they repel one another, okay?
Yeah.
And the next thing I know I was standing there by my body and I was looking down.
And I felt free but then again I was afraid because I know that it's not a dream that's happening because I looked around on the battle field.
I was looking around at everything and there were other people standing by their bodies.
Okay?
So you saw other men that had been shot too?
Absolutely.
I mean we were almost being overrun and I seen other people there and I was seeing the action that was going on and everything else like this.
Now this is going to get into where that movie Ghost was or something like that but I've told this story for years.
I've seen things come up out of the ground and start grabbing people that were standing
around in their bodies.
They were screaming horribly as they were being taken away.
They just vanished but they weren't liking it too much.
You mean like those little goblins and the ghosts?
No, it was like shadows.
It was like shadows.
I can't, you couldn't hardly see them but I know when they touched those people that
were standing there they didn't like it at all.
Then I've seen this great light come and have other little lights and everything like that
and they were picking up people.
It was like sucking them up and I can't explain it but they weren't liking it too much neither.
As I was standing there by my body, I looked down at it again and I had this sickening feeling inside of me because it was like when I was looking at it, it was like a grave.
It was like I was released from something.
I looked over my shoulder and there came this curtain.
This curtain was like you couldn't see the end of it and you couldn't see the height of it, but you could see it moving.
It was moving across the land.
I'm standing there and I look back down at my body again.
About the time I turned around it went past me.
It was going past me and everything like that.
I remember I was standing in this place and there were people touching me and telling me that it was going to be okay.
That everything was fine and I didn't have to go where those other people went that I would belong to.
I was that and the sun was white and it was so clean and perfect that it was unbelievable.
Oh my word.
And as they were walking me across this field and touching me, I looked down at my feet and my hands and it was still like they were dirty like, you know what I'm saying?
And they walked me up to this fence or this gate.
I don't say a gate, it's like a wall, like a white wall and everything like that.
I noticed there was a gigantic building behind it and everything else like this.
And as they were standing there, these people said some things or whatever it was and it's like the wall just disappeared and there was an opening there.
And they wanted me to walk through this opening, okay?
And I was kind of scared to walk through this opening.
It's been a long time but I still get choked up.
That's okay.
It's okay.
Take your time.
Anyways, this man, this woman that walked up to me told me not to be afraid.
Walk through the gate because you must go beyond that right there so you can hear the words that you need to hear.
The next thing I know I was like being beckoned.
It's like being a pulley, you know what I'm saying?
And you hear a voice like, you know, I heard this voice and I said, Sir, here I am.
You know what I mean?
I faced the opening and it's like my fear left me and I walked through it.
And the minute that I walked through it, I see these giant columns that I couldn't even see the tops of.
And it had writing all over it and everything like that.
And each column on each side of the walkway had like giant squares.
I mean big humongous giant squares and everything.
I knew that in my heart that this is where people would stand or whatever it was.
Down this long hallway or this corridor to the building that didn't have a roof on it or nothing like that, I've seen these steps and I've seen a big chair up there and I was still being beckoned toward it so I started walking down.
These cobblestones, they were stones but they were put in certain positions.
It was almost like a winding type thing.
I went up these steps and I've seen this chair with lion heads on it and I'm standing there.
It's not like a fight.
It's like a fear of expecting something.
I was standing up these steps and I was like frozen.
These two great big giant beings that I can't even describe came out because there was a giant curtain standing before me and I know that it had to be big.
I mean it was thick.
I just know it was.
They had these hooks in their hands.
and they opened up the center of this curtain and pulled it apart.
These other people came out and they put these little things that would hold the curtain
apart.
It would hold it up like you do a curtain sometimes when you tie it apart or whatever.
There was a great big void there.
As I'm standing there I see this little pulse of light.
It started out real small and as it was getting bigger you could hear like thumps.
It was like a heartbeat but as it was coming it would get bigger and bigger and the next
thing you know it's filling the screen.
I mean this whole inlet or whatever you want to talk on, one would speak and this stuff
would come out of the screen like.
Whenever the center would speak these other beings around it would speak too.
I was told that they were called the seven thunders or the seven perfect pearls.
Seven Thunders?
They were called the Seven Thunders, and the Seven Thunders were also called, or have the name like the Seven Perfect Pearls, or they were called the Pearls, okay?
Yeah, I know about that.
And they were both masculine, and they were both feminine, you know what I mean?
They would speak.
One would speak, and the next thing I know, when the sinner spoke and asked me what I was doing here, I said, Sir, I have no idea what I'm doing here.
And he said, You have a purpose.
And I said, What purpose could I have?
You didn't know you had a purpose, but they did.
No, I had no idea because I had no idea.
He said, well, this is the beginning of the purpose.
When he spoke, it was like something came out of the screen and picked me up off the platform because I was all dirty and the next thing I know I've got white clothes on.
These sparkles are coming out of me and everything like that, right?
And as he took me behind this chair, this big throne, or whatever you want to call it, he took me in this place and he told me that this place was called the Seer's Room.
And there was writing all over these gold plates, and these walls, and it had a big well in front of, I mean, in that room.
It was like a real well that came up, but it didn't have no bucket or nothing like that.
And he told me to walk toward the well, so I walked toward the well, and it had like a bubble in it.
And he put his hand across it or something, put his hand across it, and I started seeing things that were in the past.
I started seeing things that were in the future and he asked me what was happening and I told
him I guess I'm seeing things from the past and from the future and he said you're right
remember them.
And I do remember what I saw.
I remember all of it.
Everything that I'm telling you.
We would love to have that on our website.
Is there any way you can get that to him?
Can you get the story in detail?
We're so short on time here.
Can you get the story in detail to them in writing?
Sure.
I can do that.
Listen, we're going to be giving the address here in a moment.
I have never, ever heard a battlefield description of the kind that he gave.
That was incredible.
Wasn't that?
Absolutely incredible.
All right.
Totally different.
Yeah, completely different is right.
And I think I've done it again.
I think that I have, this time it was my fault, and I think that I have lost Dr. LaFonte.
Yes, you lost him.
All right, we'll try and get him back here.
Yeah, you can call him.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
You're going to have to... You forgot about me.
I haven't forgotten about you.
I'm just now getting to you.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Well, what happened to me is I had a tractor accident.
Yeah.
And I was just getting back cutting a straw and I loaded up on the back of the trailer.
And I was heading down a steep terrain hill.
Yeah.
And it started to slide out of control.
The front end of the tractor went out from under itself.
I tried to jump clear from it.
Yeah.
When I jumped clear, I seen a tractor coming right at me.
Oh boy.
And it just went across my whole body.
And I just totally, light just flashed before me.
And then like a few seconds or minutes later, I just snapped out of it wondering, did it get me?
Did it get me?
And I looked down at my legs, and they're bent right up onto my chest.
Oh, geez.
And it was just tremendously, I felt no pain.
I felt calm and just really shaky and light-headed like I'm feeling now.
It's like you were in shock.
Yes, shock.
It was just so shocking that I was like, where's the pain?
Where's this pain?
There was nobody around.
The supervisor was way up on the hill.
I'm thinking, I'm laying here, I can't move.
I can't move at all.
And so I laid there for a few minutes, kind of consciously trying to catch my breath and trying to figure out what the heck happened.
And before I know it, I just kind of like faded out like a TV.
And for a second there, I seen lights around me flashing.
And I don't know if they were angels or what, but they came down and they said, just calm Calm down, we'll get you help.
I think it was like 30 minutes or so later, the boss finally made it down the hill wondering what's going on.
He sees a tractor flipped over and I'm near it.
Through the whole thing, these angels, entities, or whatever they were, they were calming me, saying there's no pain and blood is just everywhere.
And I'm just laying here wondering.
You were seeing light being much the same as Sarah was a light.
Yes, and they were giving me this warm sensation through my body.
And I asked, you know, who are you?
What are you?
And all I heard was one person say, Bertha.
And it was just so calming and soothing.
Bertha?
Yes, and then I just totally went out.
The boss came and all this was so tremendously too much for me to comprehend.
Before I knew it, I'm in a hospital with IVs and everything.
I come conscious again and there they are still around me.
It was so tremendously, I couldn't take no more of it.
I started going into convulsions and the machines started going crazy.
A nurse came in.
And she started trying to fix me and I looked on her shirt and it had that word Perth on it and it just calmed me right down and the machines all started going back.
Oh my goodness.
And they were still around me through the whole thing.
You certainly are fortunate to have angelic immunity.
And I'm walking today.
It was the most incredible thing.
I mean I had pins through my legs.
I have scars.
I mean the bones were completely torn right out of my legs.
I'm walking today and I might be a couple of centimeters short on one leg.
The doctor was the greatest, but through the whole thing, these white sheets, I couldn't see their faces.
They were like a cape, like a robe type, but I couldn't see their faces.
They were always there through the whole thing.
That's wonderful.
I really didn't feel pain until after they got me all going and then I finally got back to reality and my body started feeling all this.
And there's the pain.
And there was the pain.
I appreciate it.
Well, I certainly would appreciate getting your report, too, for our web.
Okay.
Let's give them information that will allow them to do that.
First of all, everybody, if you will go to my website and simply scroll down.
To the name of Dr. Jeff Long and Dr. Tricia McGill, you can jump over to their site right away, that fast, those of you who are used to going to my site, or you can go directly to www.nderf.org.
And that is their website.
That's www.nderf.org.
And whatever other contact information you have, folks, go ahead.
Yes.
The NDERF stands for Near Death Experience Research Foundation.
We are hearing some absolutely phenomenal stories tonight of what the near death experience is really all about and why Dr. Tricia and myself are so very, very interested in this.
There are a lot of stories out there like that.
We'd be very interested in people either emailing their stories, if they could type it up, or if they want to write their stories.
We do have a post office box.
You can mail them to N-D-E-R-F, and that's post office box 36543.
That's in Las Vegas, Nevada, and the zip is 89133.
Very much appreciate hearing from any experiencers out there.
Your stories certainly touch me and Trish's life, and certainly, as we're very clear from the show tonight, can touch the world.
Obviously.
I want to thank you both for being here, and I've heard things tonight that I have never ever heard before.
Period.
So, thank you both.
It's been a real pleasure, Art.
Okay, good night.
Good night.
Night all.
Alright, well there you have it folks.
I heard things tonight that I have never heard before.
I was so compelled by Sarah's story.
I guess that unfolded over a period of what, about an hour and a half, two hours?
I really, I've never heard anything like that in my life before, and then some of the subsequent stories as well.
Probably the best show that we've done on this subject ever.
Anyway, any of you who would like a copy of this program, please do not email me, please do not fax me, I'm buried in all of that stuff.
You can call 24 hours a day, one, 800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278.
800-917-4278. That's 1-800-917-4278. And remember, if you're of a mind to do it, later today,
just literally hours from now, between 1 and 4 o'clock Pacific, 1 and 4 in the afternoon
Pacific time, we're going to tape Dreamland with Bud Hopkins.
That's going to be another one you're not going to want to miss.
So, anybody participating will then hear themselves on Sunday.
And you can get it on broadcast.com or right through my website.
1 and 4 today.
Bud Hopkins, from the high desert.
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