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Feb. 2, 1999 - Art Bell

03:14:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ed Pankau - Hide Your Assets - Detective Work

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01:14:36

edmund pankau

01:10:04

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I visit you all.
		Good evening or good morning as the case may be and welcome to another edition of The Strangest Thing of the Night.
		The wise known is closely and spreading its wings from the West Eastward to the Virgin Islands in the South American North all the way to the pole.
		This is, I suppose.
		In the next episode, we are going to have a bit of change of paste.
		I thought this sounded like a very interesting book title and concept.
		Then you know me.
		Edmund J. I believe it's been Cow, has written a book called Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
		He's one of the nation's top ten private investigators, and he actually can teach people how to secure their money and never be heard from or seen again.
		For whatever reason a person might want to do such thing.
		And so I thought that's going to be a very interesting program, ex-wives.
		Listen up.
		That'll be next hour.
		Now, this hour will be open lines when we get to it here shortly.
		And I'll try and make it shortly.
		House prosecutors questioned presidential friend Verdon Jordan.
		Vernon and Jordan and Drew concessions that they hope may bolster their case for live witnesses at the impeachment trial.
		Jordan asserted again in testimony that the president was directly behind his efforts to find Monica Lewinsky a job, but the effort was never designed to buy her silence.
		Well, why would the President of the United States ask anybody to find an intern a job if it wasn't driven by something?
		Just a ramming thought there.
		U.S. jets bomb Iraq missile launchers.
		We're doing that now on a daily basis.
		So we did it again Tuesday.
		We attacked Iraqi anti-ship missile launchers.
		And you would think the Iraqis would be getting sick of that.
		In other words, the Iraqis are not actually attacking us.
		They're simply turning on radars.
		And how would you like, we have these harm, they're called harm missiles, good name, huh?
		And what they do is they lock on to a radar signal, and then they go and destroy the building and the dish and the, you know, everything concerned with the radar.
		Kavoom.
		And, you know, if you were an Iraqi, you'd have to think ten times before you push the on button on the radiate, you know, to irradiate an object with radar, knowing that what you're going to get back for your efforts is going to be a big bang.
		So, you know, you can almost, I know there's nothing humorous about it, but you can almost picture in your mind's eye these Iraqis pushing the button and then getting the hell out of the building.
		I don't know.
		Maybe they're just doing that to mess with us.
		Abortion foes who created wanted posters and a website listing the names and addresses of, quote, baby butchers, end quote, were ordered to pay $107 million in damages by a federal jury Tuesday.
		Oh my.
		Oh my, oh my, $107 million.
		Well, guess that site won't be up for a while.
		People who have taken two kinds of common antibiotics are less likely to suffer heart attacks.
		It has now been determined, according to a study that bolsters the tantalizing theory that infections, get this, may be an important cause of heart disease.
		Oh, boy.
		Infections, huh?
		That is really interesting, heart disease.
		And once again, you know, earlier today I talked to my boss, Alan Corbeth.
		Alan and I have worked together now for a lot of years.
		And he said, you know, Art, I went to get a haircut today to my barber.
		And there was a sign on the door that says closed.
		Now, bear in mind, this man is the picture of health.
		52 years old.
		Does nothing but go hunting all the time.
unidentified		Hiking through the woods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I guess he asked somebody nearby what happened.
		And they said, oh, you didn't know he died yesterday.
		Just dropped dead.
		They don't have the coroner's report yet, but seems like I've been seeing a lot of that lately.
		People my age and younger just dropping dead like flies.
		And then there's another thing that I've noticed, and that is that a lot of these people have really healthy lifestyles.
		I mean, some of them are vegetarian.
		Some of them hike and press hundreds of pounds every day, and they exercise, and they go, you know, they do this and they do everything, and they just drop dead.
		And there's been a lot of that going on lately.
		I don't know.
		Well, here it is.
		Look, I've got about ten stories on this.
		Russians may turn night into day.
		I'm not the only one using that phrase, even though that is not what it is yet.
		The crew of the Russian space station Mirror will stage what it hopes is going to be a spectacular experiment Thursday using a huge mirror to reflect a beam of sunlight back to Earth.
		The banner experiment envisions unfolding a space mirror made of a membrane covered by a metal layer.
		In theory, the mirror is to work kind of like the moon reflecting sunlight on Europe and North America.
		That would be us.
		According to the mission control spokesperson, who the hell gave them permission to do this to us, I'd like to know.
		The mirror, about 25 meters in diameter, would serve simply as a prototype for even larger models, this is where it gets important, that one day may be used to eliminate sun-starved northern cities.
		And they also may turn into solar sails.
		If the sky is clear, this small, little experiment would resemble a shooting star racing quickly across the sky.
		Clouds, however, would make it invisible.
		So this is just sort of a little, let's see if we put a mirror up there and see if we can see it from Earth kind of experiment.
		If it works, then they're going to put up the big guys, hundreds of them.
		And my comment is just say, yet.
		I like my nighttime and I'm not ready to lose it.
		A small, their words, meteor streaked across the western sky yesterday morning, startling people from San Francisco to Las Vegas, more than 400 miles away.
		It was bright, blue, and, one caller said, absolutely fantastic, KCBS.
		Many others reported on it.
		People called the police.
		The object, according to scientists, was probably a fireball or bull-eyed.
		That's the director of the Cabot Observatory, Science Center in Oakland, who goes on, from the description, I would say it was simply a small meteorite that entered the atmosphere.
		Said he, it's not unusual, but it was clear last night, and so a lot of people saw it.
		Which may be a perfectly proper explanation, but you know, it's the only one ever given.
		And my question remains, how the hell do they know it was a meteorite until somebody goes and finds what fell?
		You know, they ought to say something entered the Earth's atmosphere or streaked into the Earth's atmosphere rather than saying it was a meteorite.
		Fireballs, all the rest of it.
		Meteorites, bull-eyes, maybe, maybe not.
		Show me the rock.
		Where is the meat?
		You know, that sort of thing.
		Anyway, I had an awful lot of faxes about whatever this was that went streaking across the atmosphere.
		Lawrence Livermore and the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Russia have announced they have made element 114, it has been done, folks, with 184 neutrons, one atom, after four months of calcium bombardment of a plutonium target,
		not exactly a thimble full, and it had an apparent half-life of about 30 minutes, much longer than the half-life of element 105, 106, and so forth, somewhere near the island of stability.
		So in other words, as they continue to go up, they're reaching not less, but more stable elements.
		And there were those who said, here's the table of elements, and that's all there is to it.
		Well, guess what?
		They're coming up now with new elements, and they're getting closer and closer to what Bob Lazar described as, you'll recall, element 15, used in the saucers that he got to inspect at area 51, right?
		So now we're at 114, and it is more stable.
		Follows 115 would be yet more stable, and so forth and so on.
		What lies ahead, you can only guess.
		Is it a sad day?
		It is official now.
		Ships at sea will no longer use Morse code to signal distress.
		They have all changed to a GPS-based system.
		When you consider Y2K, you've got to wonder if this is really a cool idea.
		So, very, very interesting.
		SOS is no longer going to be, you know, in a way that really is kind of sad.
		I mean, what replaces SOS?
		I guess somebody talking into a satellite phone saying, get me the hell out of here.
		I don't know.
		But it is now officially replaced, they say.
unidentified		Who does something like that anyway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, who decides things like this?
		That all of a sudden SOS is no longer going to be the distress signal.
		I don't even know why I'm nostalgic for it.
		I've never sent an SOS, but I've always thought if I heard one, I certainly would know what to do.
		And now there's not going to be any more SOS.
		I know what SOS meant in the Air Force, and it was lousy, and it was for breakfast.
		And I can't repeat it here, but, you know, the save our souls thing from the sea, I'm sorry to see that go, and I don't know why.
		NBC News has learned that the CDC in Atlanta has placed, you're going to, this will kill you.
		No pun intended, has placed smallpox at the top of their list of potential biological agents of mass destruction.
		U.S. intelligence officials, conceding they have very little either way, cite Russian intelligence reports that concluded North Korea and possibly other former Soviet client states were now conducting experimental research into using smallpox as a weapon, and we no longer have any vaccine against smallpox either.
		Oh, well, isn't that just great?
		So there you have it.
		That is sort of a summary of what's going on.
		Pretty weird stuff.
		Stuff streaking through our skies.
		The Russians getting ready to unfold their mirror on Thursday.
		And smallpox is about to be used as a weapon as we meet up with Element 114.
		Strange times, huh?
unidentified		Strange times, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, tomorrow night, Richard Hoagland, though I don't have the information and phone numbers yet, they're going to send it to me.
		They always do that at the last minute.
		Richard C. Hoagland and Ghost Wolf and company, and I understand they may well dig up, pun intended, an archaeologist who's been working on the Miami Circle so that we can hear expert opinion on what it is that we're trying so desperately to protect.
		And I might add, with some success, thank you all.
		Then the following night, Dr. Jeff Long and Tricia McGill are going to be my guests, and they are going to tackle a topic that nobody tackles.
		You've heard a lot about near-death experiences, right?
		Usually good.
		Oh, look at the light.
		There's dad.
		There's mom.
		It's heaven.
		Well, they're going to be here talking about not the white light and the relatives and the welcome to paradise.
		They're going to be talking about what happens when the opposite occurs.
		And Dr. Long has been there.
		He'll tell you about it.
		So I guess you might call them NHE's near-hell experiences.
		I don't know.
		I think an interesting topic, though.
		And then Friday night, Saturday morning, Brad Steiger is going to be here, and we've got a big announcement for you.
		If you're on my webpage, you can probably scroll down to Brad's name and learn the secret ahead of time.
		Otherwise, you'll have to wait.
		Let me see.
		There is one other little item regarding what we call Miami's Stonehenge, or what may be the American Stonehenge in Miami.
		There are some new listener-supplied photographs on the website tonight.
		If you would like to go and take a look, you're welcome to.
		So, with all that in mind, to the phones we go.
		First time caller line, you are on ear.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm just calling to see if Art's done a show before on the Chinese weapon that they have to blind people with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you referring to lasers?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, the lasers that they have.
unidentified		I hear they have it on the open market now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can buy lasers.
		Generally, a laser could do damage to you.
		You can buy one on the open market.
unidentified		I hear, though, that they have for the PLA, they have a really heavy, expensive one that they use, but not only that, they're selling one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I can even tell you that there was a U.S. aircraft that was purportedly, as a matter of fact, the co-pilot and the pilot both had some damage to their retinas as a result of not the Chinese, but the Russians doing that kind of a test.
unidentified		So I hear the Israelis, they might have something to do with, or they had the technology for that, but what I hear is they've got a 4.3-meter mirror that they're putting in one of their so-called observatories or whatever, and supposedly they're going to use this as not only an offensive, but like a defensive type thing, too.
unidentified		They can shoot it at one of our satellites or anything, and it can totally, or even one of our missiles, I guess it malfunctions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, that's out on the edge.
		I saw one test in which the U.S. with a laser destroyed a missile in flight, but it was all planned, and it was a close-in shot.
		Now, lasers degrade in the atmosphere the way anything else would do.
		So I'm not sure I'm prepared to believe that we've got something that can destroy a satellite of that sort from the ground, or worse yet, the other way around, if you could imagine something from space zapping Earth.
		Although I have at times wondered if, and you've got to think about it, crop circles could be created by an experimental weapon of that exact kind.
		The End You've got to imagine it would be possible.
		Would they do it?
		Well, not America.
		America would never do that kind of thing, would it?
		Would it?
		That was the America that fed plutonium to children, right, according to government officials recently, revealing secrets.
unidentified		Nevertheless, it still are America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody, from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Guy's name is Neil Diamond.
unidentified		We've been traveling far without a hope, but not without a star.
		Free, only one without a cloth hang on to a dream.
		Oh, you can dance, you can dance Having the time on your mind Oh, see that
		girl, watch that sea It is the Dancing Queen.
		To jump with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S. First, dial your access number to the USA.
		Then, 800-893-0903.
		If you're a first-time caller, call ART at 702-727-1222.
		From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		Call ART at 1-800-618-8255.
		Or call ART on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Soon we'll have new bumpers from Ross, Ross Mitchell, because they're changing my area code.
unidentified		I'm a dancing queen, young and sweet, young and sweet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		changing every number we have before it's all over and replacing them with you know what dancing green you you you you you If you were going to hide your assets and disappear, where would you go?
		You ever thought about that?
		I mean, if you were to just, whatever your situation is, say, that's it.
		I'm out of here.
		I'm going to be a new person in a new place where nobody knows me, and I'm out of here.
		You know, a lot of people have done that.
		Now, if you're curious about how you can do it, I've got a guest coming up who's going to tell you, I guess.
		That's the name of the book.
		Hide your assets and disappear.
		I'm really, really, really curious about this topic.
		I had always thought maybe a South Pacific island.
		Maybe Tahiti.
		I have this, we're heard in Tahiti, thanks to KHVH and Honolulu that just goes blasting across the saltwater.
		And I get these, I get these wonderful letters from friends in Tahiti who listen to the show.
		And they've always got these exotic native dancing girls.
		Oh, the postcards.
		Oh, the postcards.
		And, you know, it's just, it's sort of a dream that you dream.
		a sunny warm tropical south pacific island Vacation time, maybe.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Tally hoe.
		How you doing, Art?
		Okay.
unidentified		This is John.
unidentified		I'm in Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		I was just reading the newspaper here.
		Yes.
		And I don't know if you know about this.
		I just came across the Y2K hotline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Federal government?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, they have a number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have a number now.
unidentified		Do you ever get hold of that tree guy that sits up in the trees?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		They just finally sent me a fax today, and I've got to digest it.
		I really wanted to talk to the guy who was 200 feet up.
unidentified		Yeah, that's what I was interested in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
unidentified		What would you do up there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be very careful for stuff.
unidentified		I don't think I'd park underneath there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, how do you sleep up there?
unidentified		You've got to wonder about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, you've also got to wonder how you do what else you've got to do up there.
unidentified		That's why I don't think I'd park underneath him anywhere.
		No, I'm not sure.
		Once I see him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Close, no.
unidentified		Also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		imagine something that two hundred feet i mean you wouldn't quite hit terminal velocity but Oh, sometime soon, I presume.
unidentified		Yeah, it's been a while, it seems like, since I've heard him on there.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, thank you.
unidentified		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, you take care, and have a good morning.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, I hate when you bleep out the good parts like that when the guy's talking about the tree art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well.
unidentified		Serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, turn your radio off, dear.
unidentified		Oh, I killed it.
		I had to walk across the camp.
		I'm sitting here feeding this wood stove.
		It's freezing up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Up where?
unidentified		In Canick, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kinnick.
unidentified		Yeah, this is lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've been hearing about that.
		They reached a windchill of 100 degrees below zero the other day in, I guess, interior Alaska.
		And that's 100 degrees below zero.
		That's what, like 30 seconds for flesh turning to stone?
unidentified		Like liquid oxygen.
		Yeah.
		Pretty close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what are your temperatures?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you reached for a low so far this year?
unidentified		Oh, I couldn't even tell you.
		I don't even want to think about it.
		Give me a guess.
		You know, you sit there and talk at commercials how you left here and went to the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		Give me a guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give me a guess.
unidentified		I don't know, maybe 34 below.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		34?
unidentified		Over here, yeah, because I'm over by the inlet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw 47 below outside Anchorage one year.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like when your tires start getting square in the morning.
		But see, I completely rejected the cold.
		I had a heater in the oil pan, in the water, in the interior of the car.
		I had everything heated.
		I must have used more electricity when I lived up there than half of what comes out of Boulder Dam.
unidentified		Well, I found a woman's best friend up here as a hairdryer and an electric blanket.
		It'd be a three-dog night, but I don't do pets, you know?
		No kids, no pets.
		This ain't why I called you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, the other night I tried to get through when you had Ed Dames on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you remember how he was sitting there and he was talking about when he was doing that remote viewing, how he knew that Lucifer was watching him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I was thinking about, well, being he's the father of lies, okay?
		Being he knows that he's being remote reviewed, wouldn't he want to put that out there to make it look like he's just a little baby conceived in maggots laying in a ditch when he's actually, you know.
		And then you did that Antichrist line, which means the spirit of Antichrist is, what, already in the world?
		You proved that, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep.
unidentified		Okay.
		So the way that I'm looking about it is you, I thought maybe somebody's calling from your international line.
		You know, you got that son bin Laden.
		You know, he's from the line of Ishmael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		And then what you got?
unidentified		You got Juan Carlos, the king of Spain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I were to open a bin Laden line, I would get, I'll bet you, an entire string.
		If I had time tonight, I'd prove it to you.
		I'd get all kinds of bin Ladens.
unidentified		Well, you know how Clinton had, well, you know, like the country ain't going to take him down because the economy is good.
		You know, people ain't going to judge him?
		Well, I think Mr. Babylon is going to get judged.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not the country.
		It's not the people that want Bill Clinton taken down.
		It's the Republican majority in the Senate and the House.
		Whether you like it or not, I do believe the polls.
		I hear people screeching on the air all the time.
		I don't believe the polls.
		I don't believe them.
		Well, they're generally right.
		About 75% of the people just want this over with.
		And they're going to drag it out for every ounce of political asset they can get, but I don't think they're getting much political asset from this.
		They think they are, apparently.
		But those who are out to get the president now, I don't think are gaining any political capital from the effort.
		So, I don't know.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, Mr. Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, you were talking about craft hovering over your location out there.
unidentified		This is Larry from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My location?
unidentified		Well, where you live, out in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was one that passed directly over me some years ago.
unidentified		Let me tell you a little story.
		I was taking my girlfriend home at around 2 a.m.
		1996 of March.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And driving out where I live here in Thousand Oaks.
		Looking into the sky, my girlfriend saw a craft just sitting there, but it wasn't a triangle.
		It was rectangular.
		Because she saw the lights below it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And then I did a foolish thing.
		I got out of the car and started flashing the lights.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is definitely crossing into the Darwin Award category.
		You flash lights at the craft.
		Now, if this is something like out of Independence Day.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I did flash it, but she got very disturbed about it, and she says, take me home right away.
		So I got back in the car, and we took off.
		We looked up again, and it wasn't there anymore, but it was just sitting there.
		What do you think could have happened had you continued?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you had continued to flash the lights.
unidentified		Well, I continued for about a minute, but nothing happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you had continued persistently, a beam would have come down, and your girlfriend would have vaporized.
unidentified		now how would you have felt have that occurred quite bad but i look i'd like to i was like i We both probably wouldn't have been vaporized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
		All right, sir, I appreciate the call.
		Yes, women don't like that.
		I do that all the time when we go out for a walk at night.
		I tell Ramona, this is how you signal them.
		And I've got a very bright light to the world's brightest spotlight.
		They definitely see that.
		So I fool around with that all the time.
		Tempting fate.
		First time caller online, you are on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Arp.
unidentified		Big howdy duty to you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Houston, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Houston, all right.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can hear the Texas in.
unidentified		The marijuana thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you mean the fungi that's going to be.
unidentified		Yes, I want you to know that a certain group of botanists are now working on a preventative.
unidentified		We have a preventative for the growing factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean an antifungal thing?
unidentified		Well, that we're still working.
		We're working on things of Daconil.
		Something that would keep daconil to try to slow it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something that would eat the government's fungus alive, maybe?
unidentified		To keep the government's fungus alive?
		No, no, God, no.
		We wouldn't want to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't?
unidentified		What we're basically working on with growers is to have a preventative of how they can grow their production to worry about their own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then why not create something that kills what the government puts out there to kill the pot?
unidentified		You just might be opening Peru Dora's box there, pal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, look, the door is being opened by those dispensing this thing to kill all the hemp plants.
		That's opening the door.
		All this is doing is trying to pull it back shut again.
unidentified		Well, that, we are.
unidentified		Dakino does slow the process down a bit from what we gather of it, but we just can't get the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We lost him.
		We lost him.
		Sorry about that.
		Your phone.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Andrew calling you from Whitby Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Andrew, how are you?
unidentified		Okay, we've been out of power for the last 10 hours or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ten hours out of power.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ten hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		I don't know.
		It was something major.
		And apparently Mount Vernon, which is our main power source for this whole island, was actually out of power as well.
		So I don't know.
		It was a long time.
		They fixed it in a half hour the first time it went out and it was flashing last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a generator?
		Do you have a Beijing radio?
		Do you have a light?
		What do you have?
unidentified		Hey, I've got my trusty, you know, three LED deal.
unidentified		So I was set.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that excellent?
unidentified		Yeah, and I've got a dual-fuel stove, you know, burns gas the whole nine, and so I was fine.
		Had my barbecue going, so.
		Good for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More Americans are going to have to learn that they're going to face what you are now facing sometime within the next year.
unidentified		Yep, that's for sure.
		Yeah, I thought it was weird.
		You know, actually, I went by my bank today, and after the power failed the first time, they have a backup generator, and theirs, for some reason, did not kick in, so they had the bank closed.
		And of course, you know, the whole nine of the stoplights were out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So no power, no bank.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		No banking transaction today were performed in Oak Harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, again, that, of course, has us all considering Y2K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No power, no bank.
unidentified		Yeah, it's amazing.
		You know, no gas, no gas.
		That's right.
		Nobody can fuel their cars.
		Anybody who was out of gas was out of gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Americans are really used to just doing it one way, you know, and that way is turn on the tap, turn on the switch, stuff it down the garbage disposal, flip on the T V and the stereo and the radio and all the rest of it, and it just always works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a feeling we're coming into a period of time where that's going to be tested quite a bit.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Anyhow, about that picture you had up of the plant.
		I've seen that before a few years back on some of my plants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You grow hemp plants?
unidentified		I used to, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had that kind of fungus on it?
unidentified		Well, no, I mean, just that, it looked like that picture, whatever it was.
unidentified		I don't know what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the person represented it to be the government's new antifungal agent that will destroy hemp plants.
unidentified		Yes, I was aware.
		I just, I don't know.
		If they had it going a couple years ago, then it's a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Knowing our government, I'm surprised they didn't start out on something simpler like daisies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, kill all the daisies in the world first, just to prove you can do it.
unidentified		Yeah, which reminds me, by the way, the guy who was telling you about growing, the government growing, I think there are seven people that still do get it from the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that may be correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's sort of the remnant of a program that will close.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I think he's right, but it's that small.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		My name's John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		I have a question.
		Maybe you can help me.
		I do a lot of traveling, and I'm always trying to tune into your station when I'm in a different state.
		Is there a way of getting a list of all the radio stations?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		Most networks are loath to publish their list of affiliates for some paranoid reason, but we're not.
		You can get a list of our affiliates on my website, which, by the way, is an accurate list.
		It's another thing we do is we print the truth.
		Most radio networks lie their butts off.
		We don't.
		It is an accurate list, and it is on my website.
		You can print it out.
unidentified		Well, my problem is because I do a lot of traveling, I don't have access to the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, you do.
		Sure.
		Next time you go by a library, go in.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
unidentified		Well, I could do that.
unidentified		What's your website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		w dot artbell.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		How many times have I heard that?
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're welcome, and take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, Jack, Tempe, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jack.
unidentified		How's it going today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to take all your assets, whatever they may be, and disappear, Jack, where would you go?
unidentified		Where would I go?
		Yep.
		Indiana, because I think that's where I might go if this Y2K thing goes down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd run away to Indiana?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Got family back there.
		It's a small-town mentality.
		One interstate that goes into the town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, these are people you know, right?
unidentified		Yeah, you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're kind of missing my point here.
		No, if you were to hide your assets, your money, and disappear, yes.
		It was totally establish a new identity.
		Not to a place where you were born or something, but to a totally alien place on Earth.
unidentified		Right in the middle of a Scientologist church someplace.
unidentified		And then I just do my own experiments from inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else?
unidentified		I think that it rocks.
unidentified		But I do know of the Antichrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Personally?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		I was watching a PBS special.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		And they had a photo of that Benjamin Netanyahu.
unidentified		How the hell do you say that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Benjamin Netanyahu, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think he's the Antichrist?
unidentified		There was a picture where he was looking right at the photographer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
		Well, a lot of people do that when they get their pictures taken.
		You know, I mean, it's not exactly.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		But the look on his face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see glowing red eyes?
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		It was just cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cold.
unidentified		And it wasn't an excited look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Calculating.
		cold carefully like i am the one who will be going on Hateful and powerful.
		I will bring Armageddon to the world.
		I don't feel that way at all about Benjamin Netanyahu.
		I think he's one of the best they've ever had in Israel, frankly.
		And I like him a lot.
		But then again, I'm the one they call the devil's toe jam, right?
		But maybe we have something in common.
unidentified		We will be right back.
		I know what's a day and it serves a hundred chips a day.
		No mistake at the top of the way.
		Talk about their homes.
		And there's a girl in the top of town.
		She works.
		They won't get down to branding.
		Catch another round, she serves them whiskey and wine.
		The sailor say, Brandon, you're a founder.
		What a good life you would be.
		Yeah, you have to steal a sailor from the sea.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		From East of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach ART at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And you may fax ART at Area Code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, Brandy, what a fine wife you'd make.
		And indeed, one day, Brandy got married.
		She was a fine figure of a woman with a great personality.
		But then years later, Brandy turned into a horrible, shrieking shrew of a bitch.
		And you had to get away from her.
		Having been away from the ocean for a while, how would you do it?
		Well, my guest is going to come on and tell you.
		He's the author of Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
		I love that title.
		He's actually a P.I., Edmund J. Pancow.
		And I may be slaughtering his name.
		I hope not.
		I'll tell you more about him in a minute.
unidentified		The End All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope that Premier Executives J. Corn and Clear Channel are listening very carefully this morning.
		Edmund J. Pancow, I have a dry sense of humor, is one of the nation's top 10 private investigators.
		He has also become recognized as one of the most informed financial and asset recovery experts in the country.
		His expertise has prompted many clients in industry and government to utilize his investigative talents to document fraud, locate, and recover hidden assets.
		Now, he's a best-selling author and renowned public speaker.
		In his fifth book, Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
		He's taken an about-face approach to his search and recovery techniques, techniques that he has taught to thousands at seminars and spelled out in fine detail in his bestseller, Check It Out.
		In other words, I guess he has tracked people down for most of his adult life.
		And so he would be the ideal guy to tell you how you could not get tracked down, right?
		He is an associate editor for PI Magazine, private investigator, and contributing writer to international living.
		He writes regularly for numerous financial and investigative trade journals, authored several award-winning books on privacy and investigation, which include, of course, Check It Out, Everyone's Guide to Investigation, How to Make $100,000 a Year as a Private Investigator.
		That sounds like fun.
		I wonder if that is fun work.
		His experiences in numerous high-profile cases have been featured in such national publications as Time, Business Week, People, USA Today, New York Times.
		He's been interviewed on literally hundreds of local and syndicated radio talk shows, including ABC's 2020, Larry King Live, BBC London, and so forth and so on.
		Let's see.
		He has investigated some of the highest profile cases in American history, located the hidden assets of foreign dignitaries, bank embezzlers, celebrities, and politicians, has served as an expert witness in many precedent-setting court cases and trials, resulting in the recovery of millions of dollars for his clients.
		He's a graduate of Florida State University School of Criminology, the founder and director of the PanCal Consulting, an international investigative agency headquartered in Houston, Texas, which is where he is.
		Welcome to the show.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Edmund, gee, you began, I guess, as an investigator hunting folks down and recovering fortunes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how long have you spent on that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've really been doing this now more than 25 years.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I started as many people as a private investigator doing the same thing that everybody else does is making movies of Aaron's spouses and filming insurance cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was I right about brandy?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen, that's a true story.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		We know many, too many brandies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if now, tell me the truth.
		If somebody comes to you and they say, look, I married this gal, I've made a fortune, I'm really doing well, and she is a shrill, shrieking shrew of a bitch that I've got to get away from.
		I want to disappear.
		I want to take all my money with me.
		Can you really do that?
		Can you tell them how to do that?
		Oh, yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In fact, many people have the idea or the plan of how to do it themselves.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They just don't know the proper vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And without expert advice, somebody like you, how much trouble.
		Let's say somebody really shredded every bit, you know, their social security card, all their credit cards, all their ID, took off, ended up thousands of miles away, somehow or another, got their money with them.
		I don't know how they do that.
		You would know that.
		Could you find them?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the one problem, Art, and the thing that everybody has to remember is that three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.
		You can't call your mother on holidays.
		You can't check in with your former wife, family, anybody, because in the United States, the record-keeping system is so good that they can track phone calls.
		They can track Federal Express packages.
		They can track anything that goes into a computer if they really want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no real safe way to do it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Well, you just have to go and be committed to your new life.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Do not go back to your old life at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, disregard every aspect of your old life.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's just like hit the delete button and that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really hard, isn't it?
		Government agencies specialize in doing that for people who testify in particularly nasty criminal cases against the mob and stuff like that.
		And they put them through a whole program, and I suppose they teach them all of these things, don't they?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, they try, but the way that a lot of these people get caught or get, you know, banged up later in life by somebody that's on the other side is the same thing.
		They go back to their old ways.
		They call their old family.
		They get drunk one night and, you know, make contact with someone that just blows their whole cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people, percentage-wise, do you think that have decided to disappear have actually successfully done so?
		That's a pretty interesting question.
		It calls for conjecture, I suppose.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That would take some thinking, but I'd say that probably about one in four or five that really commits to this and decides to do it, does it and does it right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not very good odds, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what you do is improve the odds.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, did you think real hard before you wrote this book about the negative side of writing this kind of book, telling people how to run away from everything?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought about it.
		What had happened is for many years I've taught for the government and for professional associations how to find all this.
		And then one day somebody came to me and said, Ed, would you teach the other side?
		Would you come on a cruise ship, go into the Cayman Islands and teach a group of people that want to have the privacy?
		Would you do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we have a lousy telephone line here.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think we've got a pretty, our connection's winding out a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We may reconnect at the bottom of the hour.
		Let's see if we make it.
		Anyway, so you went on a cruise ship.
		You had that opportunity.
unidentified		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that things have gone overboard.
		There's far too much invasion in our personal lives.
		And really, we need more privacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming from you, that's a strange thing to say because you spent all of your earlier career invading privacy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		True story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tracking people down.
		I mean, looking for phone records.
		I don't know.
		How do you track somebody down?
		Phone records?
		And how else?
		If you've got somebody who absconded with a whole bunch of embezzled money, let's say, half a million dollars or so down into South America or a million dollars.
		A lot of people do that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you get them?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of ways.
		When you travel, there's a record.
		Every time you do an airline ticket, there's an agency in Virginia called the Airline Reporting Corporation that knows where you've gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't do that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's just tons of agencies that collect government and they give it to the government if they ask for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you get that information?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of the information becomes publicly available through the courts or through things that you do.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's like your most personal private document is your tax return.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But it becomes a public record.
		If you have a divorce, if you get involved in a lawsuit over money, they subpoena it and it goes into a file that becomes public to the rest of the world.
		So those things happen.
		And then when you travel, there's a record.
		The airlines have a record.
		The government has a record when you re-enter the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but while true, now the passport part would be harder.
		Flying domestically, of course, all you've got to do is show picture ID and they're happy.
		You could buy a ticket, I think, using paying cash, right, and then using a false picture ID.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You can't try to go buy a ticket and pay cash today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You don't want to do it.
		They want credit cards.
		They want a paper trail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean to say they won't take cash?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't make them take cash?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I have seen times when, no, they will accept no cash.
		They want a credit card to verify identity.
		When you check into a hotel, don't they want a credit card to swipe just to verify your identity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they want a credit card to swipe, yes, but they say it's ostensibly for any room charges and so forth.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's what they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you don't have to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can say no.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		True, but they don't have to give you the room.
		The thing is, it becomes more and more difficult to move and travel just on cash.
		It can be done.
		And see, the thing is, you can be smart, you can be cool, you can do this yourself.
		But if you take someone with you, a wife, a girlfriend, a child, anybody, you quadruple the chance of getting caught.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your best chance is doing it all by your lonesome.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Just pick up and go.
		And remember the magic words, three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.
		Don't tell anybody anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you do, you've got to kill them.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Just about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When, you know, going back to your former, before we come back to disappearing, but going back to the former work you did, did you ever feel guilty about doing what you did?
		I mean, for example, some poor slob of a guy who was married to the disastrous Brandy, and he makes it to someplace in Italy or South America or Asia or something, and you, for Brandy and for a sum of Brandy's money, you go find the guy, and then when you find him, you're about to turn him back over to this shrill, shrieking, horrible little bitch.
		So do you ever feel guilty about that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have felt for some cases like that That either they deserved each other or neither one of them deserved anything.
		Usually when I do it, I don't do it for Brandy.
		I do it for Brandy's law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.
		But they, you know, it's something doing this this many years, I've seen the abuses, and that's one of the reasons I really started doing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you really got sick of that kind of work.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, to some degree, yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I did a lot of the failed bank and savings and loan investigations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I saw a pattern of what went on there.
		And on one side of it, there was a lot of fraud.
		There was a lot of problems, et cetera, et cetera.
		But on the other side of it, there's a lot of people that got caught up in something that they didn't know what was going on and they were ruined for life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Sure.
		And so at times, you would feel sorry for your targets.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you've got to go ahead and do it anyway.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Business is business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, business is business.
		What about do private investigators ever get I mean, let's back up a little bit.
		The typical Hollywood portrayal of a private investigator is of a guy up on a ladder taking picture of a couple of people copulating for the spouse who thinks somebody is fooling around.
		That's the way Hollywood typically depicts a private investigator.
		Kind of the first rung on the PI ladder, I suppose.
		Is that roughly accurate?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was 25 years ago when I got in the business.
		Everybody that was a private investigator had failed as a police officer or something like that.
		Today, there's a lot of people in the business that never wore a gun, never wore a badge, and their background is in computer skills or in real estate searching or in one of a dozen other fields.
		And the business they do today is not the errant spouses because the laws have pretty much legislated out fault and divorce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But there's bigger issues today.
		One of my best friends, Bill Kazurik, has a nationwide firm that does nothing but make movies of people that are faking injuries.
		And then another one, a good friend of mine, does nothing but things like I do, which is checking out the backgrounds of people.
		Only he does it for women who want to know if their prospective spouse is really worth what he says he is.
		I do it more for business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, find out if a company is really worth what they say it is.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes, or is this money that I'm getting ready to invest going to someone that's going to treat it as well as I am?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you enjoy your work?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I really do.
		It's a fun business.
		I learn something new every day.
		And in most cases, I really feel that I've done some good and I've helped somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there apparently are a few where you still carry guilt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We all carry guilt about some things we've done in our lives.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's always a thing or two you say, if I could have done that different, or if I could have told this person three years ago, you know, just walk away from this.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Don't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you would have saved them.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I have seen people all the time that have gotten so far into something that there's no getting them out.
		And I really feel sorry for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of people mostly want to disappear?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, really disappear?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's several kinds.
		We'll say first is a person that's really done something wrong.
		Somebody that's either broken the law or they've gotten into some situation where they see no out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, can you help somebody like that without yourself breaking the law?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding me.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm not going to tell anybody to break the law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I'm talking about after the fact.
		Now, that would seem to be an accessory almost to the crime.
		Listen, hold on.
		We'll clear that one up when we get back.
		But imagine one day, a phone booth.
		It's snowing.
		It's New Jersey.
		You hear this song.
		You're gone.
unidentified		All the leaves are brown.
		And the sky is gray.
		I've been for love.
		I've been for a while.
		On a winter's day.
		On a winter's day.
		I'd be safe and warm.
		I'd be safe and warm.
		If I was in L.A. If I was in L.A. California Dream.
		California Dream.
		On a winter's day.
		Stuck into a church.
		I passed a long way.
		Well, I got down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Once again, we go to my guest, Edmund J. Pangow.
		Edmund, I am pronouncing your name correctly, am I not?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Pankao is fine.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Call me Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed.
		Okay, Ed is much easier.
		Good, Ed.
		Ed, let's say I came to you and I said, look, I want to disappear to a nearly uninhabited or barely inhabited South Pacific Island, or maybe even an inhabited one like Tahiti or something like that.
		Describe to me roughly the steps that I would have to take.
		Before you do that, I'm sorry.
		Let me take you back because we've got to clear that up.
		If somebody had committed a felony, let's say somebody robbed a bank and they've got three-quarters of a million dollars in hard cash, hard cold cash, they come to you and they say, Ed, I've got to get the hell out of here.
		FBI's after me.
		Everybody's after me.
		All I want to do is go live a quiet life in Rio de Janeiro or something.
		You can assist them without yourself breaking the law?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could give them advice of places to go.
		I could not specifically say, tonight you go get this ticket and this name and do this and do that and everything else.
		But in a way, it's just like this book, Hitman, the Paladin Press did.
		they can write a book about how something's done, but if you choose to do it a certain way, that's your choice, not mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you're even giving them, even limited advice would not be considered, wouldn't risk you getting charged as an accessory?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No, because I wouldn't be giving them specific advice.
		And usually, you know, I don't do it for somebody like that.
		And, you know, I've never really had that circumstance.
		What I get is the poor schmuck that gets caught up in a lawsuit like the McDonald's coffee case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And this person is the one that poured the coffee and along with McDonald's is sued for $4 million.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They get a judgment against him, and he can never own anything in his name for as long as he lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So as long as this person remains using their regular name.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't have a life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Virtually, they don't have a life.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can help somebody like that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you normally relocate them just out of curiosity in the U.S. itself, or is that too dangerous?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would they have to go out of the country?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the United States, literally everything we do every day is tracked.
		Big Brother has their own way of doing it, and there's a semi-secret government agency called FinCEN, the Financial Crime Enforcement Network, that can find out anything you've done.
		But even more than them is the credit bureaus, and that's the real Big Brother.
		The credit bureaus are the agency that really tracks your daily movements and gets a record of something you do every day.
		So unless you go and get an entire new identity, which can be done, you're far better off to go to a very nice country like Belize or Honduras that will welcome you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear a lot of good things about Belize.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I've got a home down in Honduras.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Which both of them are great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I get callers from Belize.
		I'm listened to a lot down in Belize, and people call me, and I have always wondered about some of the people that call me.
		They don't ever identify themselves, not that I would allow them to, but I mean, they're kind of a low-profile, let's put it that way.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They hearken to the beat of a different drummer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could a person have a pretty good life in Belize?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You can live there for less than half the cost it costs here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Live very well and a whole lot healthier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Suppose you had to retire tomorrow and retire on what Uncle Sam gives you for Social Security.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No place in the U.S. you can do that and live at anything but a subsistence level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's a lot of people in the U.S. Assuming Social Security holds up once average, about $600 or $700 a month.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's $1,000, that will not pay your rent and utilities and leave you enough for food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But you can go to a place like Belize or Honduras.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That same amount of money will get you a three-bedroom, two-bath home with a good view for $500 a month.
unidentified		Wow.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So that includes a maid.
		Wow.
		The food there is cheaper, especially if you eat native, and it's healthier.
		You eat a lot of rice, you eat a lot of fish, you don't have biggie burgers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they must have Belize burgers.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They have Belize burgers, I'm sure.
		But you live better, healthier.
		My neighbors down there, everybody there asks no questions and tells a few lies.
		Oh, they do.
		The Belize government is one of the few countries in the world that did not sign the MLAT, the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, and they want no part of any inquiries by the U.S. government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would Belize deport you back to the U.S. for any reason?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Only if you committed a major felony and the U.S. really pushed for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of countries can you go to that simply, absolutely, positively will not deport you under any circumstances?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, those kind of places are usually the ones you wouldn't want to go to, like Libya.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Libya.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But there's some countries that still will not do it, and part of it is a function of money.
		I have a neighbor down in Honduras that the U.S. government wants very, very, very bad.
		He thumbed his nose at the IRS for over $5 million.
		He did a few other things.
		But the government there is very happy to have him.
		He runs a very successful business there.
		And when the government asks to have him back every month, they basically tell him to put it where the sun doesn't shine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Oh, yes.
		So if your crime is only one of upending the IRS or something like that, then you and your money are welcome.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In fact, if you deposit $50,000 in the bank in many of those countries, A, they pay you 9% to 12% interest, tax-free, and B, they give you citizenship and a passport.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In any name you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$50,000 will get you a passport, a name, and citizenship?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Virtual citizenship?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In any name you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea this could be done.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		This is the way it goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really serious, huh?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Pick a new name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea this could be done.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		that's really the ultimate way to start over or or or or uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you don't advise taking family members.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one will do you in, huh?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it will lead back to you.
		I mean, unless you've done something truly heinous, something that they're going to pursue you to the ends of the earth for, you know, you can bring your family and you just maintain a low profile.
		But if you've done something that that someone really, really wants you for, then you've got to sit back and say, you know, do I really need to bring them now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Given a choice of being in trouble with our government or the mafia, which would you Choose.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather be in trouble with the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The government, yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember there was a movie that Roy Schneider starred in years ago called Sorcerer?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It was a remake of the movie The Wages of Fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should remember that because I'm a movie buff, but I don't.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		He drove, he was a wheel man for a robbery where a mafia Don's son or nephew was killed and they stole his money.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And he fled to South America to avoid them.
unidentified		And they don't much care, do they, about they don't bother about borders, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bother about borders.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Of course, the mafia today is not what it was back then, but there's still probably one or two guys around that could make you an offer you don't refuse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's still possible to offend somebody to the degree that they would come and knock on your door in Belize or anywhere else.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, 53.
unidentified		50.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're my age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly my age, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How often, frequently in your career, have you been in serious physical danger?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I'll say once for sure, once other maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell us anything about the for sure one?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I helped the government do a real big deal.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And in that deal, my personal liberty was taken away for a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the government?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		By the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other side?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was an unwelcome guest of some people for a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Foreign nation of some sort.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is frightening.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I would not recommend it and would not do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I spent some time in Russia.
		It's a very interesting place right now.
		Whatever our mafia is not today, they have it there, believe me.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I was asked to teach the KGB how to find the hidden assets of their people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are plenty of those, aren't there?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There is a bunch of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you actually taught the KGB?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they brought them to the United States, put them in a program at the University of Chicago, and they flew up me and other experts to teach them and other similar investigators, you know, how to do white-collar crime financial investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose today in your business, you almost have to be a computer expert.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is, right, right, right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I have people that work for me.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		See, Art, you and I grew up before color television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		If you grow up before color television, you are not astute on computers like those with pimples.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And the really heavy-duty stuff that we really do our digging, I relate down to one of the people that I train that actually does that level of work faster and better than I do.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I write the parameters and I create the program and they go do the keyboard work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty good.
		You know, I'm pretty good at computers.
		I'm very deeply involved in computers, but I am still absolutely amazed.
		My son, who's now 17, can sit down at a computer game that he has never seen in his life, that I can't possibly figure out, and in 20 seconds, he's got the whole thing figured, and he's already halfway to battling the big monster.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, they have a mindset that I'm sure people that grew up with this have a mindset that you and I will never have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you hire somebody like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a big staff that works for you or a small staff?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I used to have a staff of more than 60 people.
		And a couple years ago, I said, I'm working for them.
		They're not working for me.
		And I sold my branches to my staff, and I just do what I want to do now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is mostly the opposite of what you did do.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		To a good degree.
		I still teach a lot, and I've got a lot of people that I've helped put their lives back together.
		Give you a, for instance, I had a woman who had to find her ex-husband because their daughter needed a bone marrow transplant.
		Oh, boy.
		And if we didn't find him within a week, the chances were that the girl was going to die.
		So in two days, we found them, we put them back together, you know, and something like that really makes me feel good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you get occasional good jobs.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Every now and then I get to wear the white hat, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I bet it's fairly rare.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, for every person that I make happy in my business, there's somebody on the other side that's unhappy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever had both clients come?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, have you ever had somebody who has embezzled a whole bunch of money from a company come to you, and you got them the hell out of Dodge with a new name and a new identity, and then had the company come to you trying to hire you to find the guy?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Not quite under those circumstances, but I've had the attorneys for both the husband and the wife both come to me on the same day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The wife wanted to find the husband's assets.
unidentified		The husband wanted to find the wife's boyfriend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which side did you take out of it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that I can answer that.
unidentified		I see.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's funny.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In some cases, I say, you know, I don't want to deal with either one of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say in here that it's possible to learn to be a private investigator, as you are, and reasonably expect to make about $100,000 a year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's really very easy to do.
		Yes.
		That's basically just making $400 a day, which is one little case a day.
		You have to be two things.
		A, you've got to understand the philosophy of investigation, but even more so, you've got to understand business and marketing.
		Doing the work is half the work.
		Being able to get clients is the other part.
		And most investigators never get any business or marketing or sales skills in school, so they starve to death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you get a good reputation as a PI?
		That's got to be mainly how you get your business.
		I would think the yellow pages probably don't yield a lot.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The bigger the ad in the yellow pages, the worse the investigator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Rule of thumb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Really, this is a results-oriented business.
		If you do one good job, it'll bring you two more.
		When you do a good job for somebody, whether it's a lawyer or an individual, they'll tell 10 friends.
		And those 10 friends will tell 10 more, and at least one or two or three of them will need you.
		Today, you know, I do no advertising.
		I have more business than I can want to do.
		I just pick and choose those cases, A, where it's interesting, and B, where there's somebody I want to help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you get so many cases now that you don't have to choose the C-dier side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can sort of ignore that if you want to.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and most good investigators work that way.
		As I say, this business has changed so much that most of the people in this today, they work, they wear a coat and tie, they go to work like anyone else, and what they do is they either find people, they locate information to help somebody make some other decision, this, that, or something else, or, you know, they're out documenting fraud for somebody.
		Most people don't know it, but one of the biggest hirers of investigators is the credit card companies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Our credit card debt is going up higher and higher every day.
		One thing I feel is that we're going to have a depression again.
		And it's all the signs are there.
		In 1998, we had more bankruptcies than any year in history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was about to say, why would you be involved?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because people can right now declare bankruptcy pretty much and get out from under.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, many bankruptcies are set up.
		Many bankruptcies are done with the intent to commit fraud.
		And I won't say many as a percentage, but in numbers.
		If only one in ten is set up that way, that's still a pretty high number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a high number, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do you think an honest assessment would be that it's about one in ten that are absolute frauds?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I would say at least that, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what might be your mission in such a case?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, my mission in such a case is to document that this person created the steps for their bankruptcy with the knowledge and intent to avoid the debts of their creditors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you can prove that and go to a judge, then you can have the bankruptcy invalidated and they've got to pay off?
unidentified		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		They will strike the bankruptcy.
		And even if they go through bankruptcy, the debt will not be voided.
		Any debt that is found to be related to fraud cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So at that point, you've created a client who needs to come to you to disappear, probably, right?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That may happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
		That's really something.
		Well, all right.
		What we're going to do, I think, is we're going to pause here at the top of the hour.
		And when we come back, I would like the opportunity for the audience who I know, I just know they're going to have a ton of questions for you.
		I have been curious all my life about how a person would actually completely disappear, just sort of go away and never be heard from again and be sipping drinks with little umbrellas on them on a nice sunny beach someplace.
		So we can talk about that.
		All right, good.
unidentified		We will talk about that.
unidentified		Mama, I'm depending on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's about Papa.
unidentified		Tell me the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a rolling stone.
unidentified		Mama just hung her head and said.
		He's gone.
		Papa was a rolling stone.
		Wherever he laid his hat was his home Until he met in All he left was alone Oh, oh, oh Papa was a rolling stone Mama's hungry Brother he laid his head Cause he's home I'm ready to go I'm ready to go
		Be it sight, sand, smell, touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memories hoar when the youth come to come to
		talk with Arkal in the Kingdom of Nineveh from outside the U.S. First, file your access number to the USA.
		Then 800-893-0903.
		If you're a first-time cover, call Art at 702-727-1222.
		From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		Call Art at 1-800-618-8255.
		Or call ART on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		This is Coaster Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is Edmund Gow is here, and he can tell you how to disappear.
		Take your assets.
		Or the assets.
		And simply disappear.
		He knows because he tracked people down.
		Who did that?
		And now he's written a book telling you how you can do it.
		Get away with it, I guess.
		Back to Ed Pankow in just a moment.
unidentified		Back to Ed Pankow in just a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go again with Ed Pankow.
		And can you imagine being able to take $50,000, on the one hand, a lot of money, or on the other hand, not a lot of money, go to a country, open a bank account, they issue you citizenship, a passport in the name of your choice, and you are in business in more ways than one.
		Ed, welcome back.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I would like to go to the phones and see what people have to say about all of this.
		This is kind of an unusual topic for a lot of people.
		I suppose at one time or another, almost everybody has considered simply disappearing.
		I mean, it's one of those things.
		You might not admit it, but at least it crosses your mind.
		And so I guess that's how your book kind of struck a chord, huh?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It amazes me.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		My book doesn't come out for two weeks yet, but it's already on some of the top lists on Amazon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That figures.
		That figures.
		And by the way, folks, you can get it through my website.
		Just scroll down to Ed's name and click on the link, and you'll go over to Amazon.com, which is exactly where you can get that book.
		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed Pancal.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Joe from Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a question for Ed.
		All right.
		Ed, about 10 years ago when I was a little bit younger and stupid, but I screwed up on my driver's license.
		And the wonderful Commonwealth of Pennsylvania decided that I won't be able to get my license back until around 2020, which would make me about 50 years old.
		Okay, so in the meantime, I drive around because I have to.
		I have to make a living.
		But I'm kind of tired of being paranoid.
		And my question to you, sir, is simple.
		If I was to move to another state, like maybe out west, how does that work with a driver's license?
		Is there reciprocity laws where I can't get a license in another state?
		Do you have any information on that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		Many states have a reciprocity, but the problem is it doesn't always make the computer.
		If you went and applied for a license in another state, they asked you on the form, has your license been suspended in another state?
		And you have to answer that question, but they don't have the means, unless it's put in the big FBI computer, the NCIC, to know that your license, particularly if it was 10 years ago, was suspended in another state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what does he put down?
		No?
		Well, that's a personal choice.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if he wants to get a license, that's what he has to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Either that or just leave it blank, and, you know, they may never even ask him.
unidentified		Because I visited California this past summer, and I talked to several people, and they didn't seem to think it'd be a problem.
unidentified		But I just wanted your advice on it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I don't think, especially from 10 years ago, that's not going to be in a computer system that's going to come up anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if there was a warrant for your arrest, I've got to know, Colera, what could you have done that would have kept you from getting a driver's license for how many years?
unidentified		They stayed till 2020.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What could you have done?
unidentified		Well, to be honest with you, sir, it was one DUI.
		Okay, that was a mistake.
		But in the meantime, I had to drive to work, and they kept catching me for driving under suspension.
		And they call me habitual.
		And so they tacked it on and tacked it on.
		And in Pennsylvania, doesn't give you any mercy on your driver's license.
		Once you lose it, they don't give it back until it's time to get it back.
		And that's my point.
		I don't want to wait until I'm 50 years old to be able to legally drive a car.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, too, there's probably also a legal way to get what's called an occupational license.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You show that you need it to and from work and everything.
unidentified		I used to have it in the state bread and butter license.
		They don't have it anymore.
		And I've talked to my state rep, and I had her check Harrisburg with PennDOT, and they said, they told me, no way, you've got to wait until 2020.
		So I'm thinking I might as well just go to another state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is exactly the kind of guy that you would typically help, isn't it, Ed?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		That, and, you know, what I'd probably do is tell them to move to Honduras.
		They'd give them a Honduras driver's license.
unidentified		No problem.
unidentified		I don't know if I have to go that far, do I?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You might like it.
unidentified		Trust me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might.
unidentified		Do you have agencies or something I could get in contact with you somehow, or how does that work?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you want to find me, one of the easiest ways is to go to my website, which is www.pancalpankau.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you should have told me that one earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get a link up right away.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I answer about 50 or 60 emails a day.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, if I can help you with something specific like that, I'm more than happy to.
unidentified		Sir, I really appreciate your time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care.
		That's amazing.
		They can really take your driver's license away for that kind of period of time.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		I had no idea they could do that.
		I thought a year, 18 months, maybe, but until he's 50?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the law can really be out of sync.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Look at these cases where people that had no knowledge whatsoever that their tenant was doing drugs lose their homes and properties and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the old zero tolerance thing.
		So in other words, you're a landlord and somebody you've got staying in one of your apartments gets popped and they can have amphetamine in the microwave, and you're guilty.
		And you're guilty.
		Have they backed away from that, or are they still doing that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I've seen they're still doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not my kind of America.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, gentlemen.
		This is Greg from El Com, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Greg.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Ed, how are you doing tonight?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Doing good.
unidentified		Good.
		Hey.
		You'd mentioned earlier in the show that if you're going to disappear, go alone.
		If you have luggage, like a wife, kids, that type of thing, that you've got a pretty good chance of getting caught.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's increased because you would have more discipline in staying hidden than they would.
unidentified		Right.
		Now, just per se, if a person, let's say, allowed themselves or were put in a federal witness protection program and they had a wife and a few children, that type of thing, do you have any information?
		I mean, would they be advised even by the federal government to go alone because of them being afraid of being ID'd and having a lot of trouble for your family, in your opinion?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The government doesn't always tell you the whole truth.
		The government will tell you we'll take you and your family and relocate them.
		But I remember quite a few years back, all of a sudden, a bunch of government witnesses in the program were all being knocked off by the other side with a .22-caliber bullet to the head.
		And it's just because of this, because there was somebody on the other side that knew the program and tracked the people, not through the witness, but through their spouse or children.
unidentified		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
unidentified		Well, thank you, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		And that brings up a really touchy question that I'm going to ask you, Ed.
		All right.
		If you had somebody come to you and say, look, Ed, as I'm sure some do, money is no object.
		I want to find this person.
		They disappeared three years ago as a witness for the federal government.
		They went through the protection program, and I want to find this person.
		Could you do that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I probably could, but I don't.
		Most of my work is still working for the side with the white hats.
		The book I've written does more for those of us that want to disappear than anything else, but my real business isn't helping people disappear.
		My business is finding those that have really, you know, wanted to disappear.
		Well, yes and no.
		You know, the gray hat I can wear.
		The black hat, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, okay, then we'll call it a gray hat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, if you're helping somebody run away, in a lot of cases, it's you don't get charged with aiding and abetting, huh?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No, and again, if somebody comes to me and say, Ed, I really want to establish a new life and do this and that, I listen to them and I see why, and I'll say, yes, I can help you and here's how.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Or, you know, I will tell them, here's half a dozen places you can go and get more information, but, you know, I'm not the guy to help you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, to disappear, number one, you need a passport.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You can travel outside the United States to most countries on a voter registration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could go to Canada, you could go to Mexico, sure.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You can go to Honduras, you can go to Belize, you can go to most of the islands of the Caribbean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without a passport.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then how do you come back?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Why come back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you don't come back.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You get the new ID over there and come back as the new ID.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You come back as the new ID.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a Belize citizen?
unidentified		Yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There's a guy that was in the United States.
		His name was Richard Minns.
		He was charged with ordering a hit on his common law wife girlfriend years ago.
		In fact, this was the subject of a book called Sleeping with the Devil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty serious.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And he split, and he's lived all over the world for the last 20 years and was never caught until one time he came back through U.S. customs, and the little old lady in tennis shoes looked at him and said, click, click, click, blue eyes, blonde hair, American voice, Honduran passport, drug dealer, drug dealer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And she asked him, she said, Mr. Smith, how are you doing today?
		He said, fine.
		And she looked at his ID and said, what's your date of birth?
		And he couldn't remember what date of birth he put on what of his five passports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five passports.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And the thing is, if you've got an ID, you've got to live it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to do it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		This guy never would have had a problem except he couldn't remember the birth date on that particular phony passport.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you ever go so far as to sit somebody down for several days on end and literally make them live and memorize their new life?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		I've had one of my friends that I, well, basically I did, yes.
		And he wanted to do this.
		His problem was that he had somebody else that he owed a lot of money to that probably ended in a vowel, and he wanted to avoid them.
		So I helped him do that, and I told him all the ways to do it and what to do and everything else, and he did a pretty good job of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did, huh?
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I like to ask Ed a question.
unidentified		This is Reba in Dallas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		The Unibomber was somebody who eluded everybody for a very long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He sure did.
unidentified		In fact, the only reason he was caught was because his brother turned him in.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		And they had a lot of investigators.
		What were they doing wrong?
		How come they couldn't catch him?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The reason they didn't find him is because he didn't have any utility service.
		He didn't have a driver's license.
		He lived the existence of a monk.
		And you can hide in the U.S. if you want to live in that lifestyle.
		He had nothing in his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing traceable.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nothing traceable.
		So, you know, that's a whole different world.
		You could do that and, you know, poof, you're gone.
		But if you want to have an existence, then you've got to do things that keep you in the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as hard a creature as he was, he lived what he preached.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And see, as I said, three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		His own brother turned him in because he recognized his writing style.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		So there's your answer, man.
unidentified		So that's what gave him away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies, good morning.
		You're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Ed, sir.
		Yes.
		I would like to know is, okay, you were talking earlier about residing in Belize and living a life of luxury.
		Good life, yeah.
		I would like to know, now, see, I'm a person that's disabled, and if one is in such a state as I, could I essentially retire to Belize and continue to get your disability.
		Continue to get my disability, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
		What you would do is set up a bank account in the U.S., a trust account, and have the money sent to that bank here.
		And then you have the bank sweep your account once a month or whatever and transfer the money to wherever you want it to go.
		Or you open an account with an attorney or somebody you trust, let them get the money, cash the check, and see that it gets to you if you don't want it traceable down to believe.
unidentified		Well, now, my question on that is, by all that's righteous with the government, you're supposed to inform them of your living address and where does it say that?
unidentified		In part of my papers on SSI.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Again, you don't have to be a permanent resident.
		You can be visiting down there.
		You're supposed to inform them of your permanent residence.
unidentified		Oh.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So you're a visitor.
unidentified		Ah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is that something you might do, Color?
unidentified		Well, it's entirely possible.
unidentified		Belize sounds just wonderful.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you something else about Belize and a lot of these third world countries.
unidentified		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They are begging for Americans with technical skills.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Everybody here can turn on a computer and operate Windows 98, but down there, it's a miracle.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		I know.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So if you can be a parent in the field, if you can work or program computers, you have the skills that we take for granted.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Down there, you become a self-employed person with a built-in, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
		And hold on a moment.
		we'll be right back now again here's our one My guest is Ed Pencow.
		He's a guy who can tell you how to take the longest road home.
		So long that you don't ever get back there.
		His book is just coming out.
		It's called Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
		an interesting topic to be sure and we'll get right back to it you you All right, Ed Bencal.
		Once again, Ed, I'm sure you have a lot of contact with the police in the work that you do.
		Do you most times find yourself greeted well by the police or are they kind of contemptuous of you?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm pretty fortunate, and I've got a good relationship with them for several reasons.
		Number one, I teach a lot of police agencies how to investigate better.
		And the second thing is many times people hire me to go and basically get somebody that the police don't have time to do or they don't have the manpower to do or they don't have the sophistication to do, put the report in a big package and just hand it to the police and say, here, book them, Dano.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Oh, yeah.
		On the other hand, at other times, you are performing a service that the police probably, for somebody, that the police probably wouldn't be wild about if they knew about it.
		So you sure live in a sort of a strange gray territory.
		To one degree.
		What about technology?
		I mean, today, for example, if you want to bug somebody's house, or you want to listen to their telephone conversations, or you want to plant a bug, how easy or hard is that to do?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not really like they show in the movies.
		A, it's not that easy to do, and B, it's five years in jail and a $50,000 fine.
		On television, they show this stuff that just, poof, it's done.
		It's not really like that.
		Television makes things wonderful, but first off, there's a lot of other ways to get the very same information.
		Like, it's illegal to record someone's conversation, but it's not illegal to get the phone numbers they call.
		If you know who they called, you can pretty well figure out what they said or find another way of finding out what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems like in some states, it's legal to record a conversation if you're part of that conversation.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's the federal law and the law in like 90% of the states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		But not legal to serentipishly.
		I can't even say that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, Linda Tripp knows all about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Linda Tripp knows.
		What about these old portable phones?
		I talk about them all the time on the air, these 49 megahertz phones.
		You can literally, so many people have them, and they don't even think about the fact that they are broadcasting.
		Now, what about That you can park out something inside somebody's home and you can record every conversation they have without tapping any line at all.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can do that, but if you use that information, you can be charged with violation of the Electronic Communications Act.
		I had a circumstance where somebody was playing with a scanner and they accidentally picked up somebody's conversation, and then they used that information for their own, shall we say, personal gain.
		And they were charged with violation of the act for the intent and purpose for which they did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For personal gain, like a stock tip or something like that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, something a little stronger than that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It was sort of like blackmail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Yes.
		The FCC has now passed a law which forces manufacturers, interestingly, to block out the cellular ban, for example, in scanners.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you cannot listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most cellular companies are going to digital transmission anyway, which makes that a whole lot tougher.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, one other subject I want to cover, and then we'll go back to the phones, and that is I have some friends who keep their money offshore to beat taxes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how the hell they do it, but I've been urged a million times to do it.
		And I just can't bring myself to do it.
		And that's no great self-hornblowing on my part.
		I just can't bring myself to do it.
		I mean, I live here.
		I enjoy what I have here.
		And I frankly don't mind, even though I cringe and it kills me to pay taxes.
		And I pay a bunch.
		I can't bring myself to do that kind of thing.
		But a lot of people do it.
		And it seems to me, tell me if I'm wrong, but we talked about this briefly before the program the other day.
		At the end of the day, at the end of the line, if you're going to put your money offshore, you're putting your money in somebody else's hand.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Not necessarily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
unidentified		Oh, no.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		First off, it's not illegal for you to have a foreign bank account.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The government just asks that you report any income you have on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And the thing is, a bank here in the United States today will pay you 3, 4, maybe at the most 5% interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In most of these countries where your money is just as, if not more secure, you get 9% or 10%.
		And you don't have to go to somebody that says, we'll set this up for you.
		You can very legitimately go to one of the major banks like a Barkelly's bank in Belize, open an account.
		It's all in your name.
		It's all yours to do.
		You manage it.
		You direct it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just like a bank account in the U.S. Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But of course, now, South America is in the middle of a financial crisis.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But the money doesn't sit in South America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but Belize could eventually be affected by what's rolling across South America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So while you do get a good rate of interest, you also have a higher rate of risk.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes and no.
		What you can do, many of the banks that do this have branches all over the world.
		If you pick up the newspaper tomorrow and say, well, Belize has got a little problem, you can call your friendly neighborhood banker and say, transfer it from the branch in Belize to the branch in Canada, and your money electronically instantly goes out of the country, away from the risk, and it's back to London or this or that or wherever you want it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a world we live in.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Many of our U.S. banks do this.
		Most people don't know it, but American banks don't pay interest over the weekend.
		Many of our largest banks send millions and billions of dollars to offshore banks to collect interest over the weekend while they're sleeping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		Oh, listen, this is a done deal.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they get the money back in their bank, you know, 8 o'clock Monday morning, and they've made themselves a tenth of a percent or something.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		I say again.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Got a question for Ed here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in this Tom from Leroy, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
		Listen out of 1,100 out of Cleveland and 570 out of Youngstown, kind of in the middle there.
		But, you know, just about every war this country's fought, we wound up with people that vanished without a trace, lots not recovered or whatever.
		But I'm not worried about all the wars, just World War Vietnam, my big one.
		I'm wondering if Ed knows of any MIAs that are listed on the wall in Washington that are still alive.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, personally, I don't know.
		And it's something that, you know, I know people and I know people that work on trying to find them.
		And at this point, my personal opinion is there's not any of them left.
		There's been a very strong effort on the part both of our government and a lot of the private agencies that have, you know, family members to document this, to find them and everything else.
		And I think they're doing a pretty good job.
		I can't find any evidence today that there's some of these people out there that are still being held against them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know, Ed.
		i could imagine somebody in nom vietnam for example going uh...
		a wall other and then going native now i i spent that could happen I spent 10 years on the island of Okinawa.
		I lived in Okinawa for.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Kadena Gate 4 Shibana.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I was there, yes.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were there too?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I spent a year and a half at Kadena, and I liked it so Much that I came back, I got discharged, and got on a plane and went right back to Okinawa and worked there as a civilian for many, many years, working for KSBK, the radio commercial broadcast station there.
		And at the end of the time, I came to a point in my life, Ed, where I knew that if I was going to remain on Okinawa, I was done as an American.
		i mean i was because i was going native and frankly when i got home after a decade just about It was terrible.
		I was so scared.
		I didn't recognize what was going on.
		I didn't recognize the country.
		I was homesick for Okinawa for a long time.
		I understand.
		So I was that close.
		And so I could imagine that somebody in Vietnam would go AWOL and then go native.
		Could there still be some of those over there?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, that wouldn't surprise me at all because some people, for one reason or another, they did something that they were ashamed of.
		They got involved in the drug trade.
		They did this.
		They did that.
		I'm sure there's people that voluntarily MIA'd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got them.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, we'll never know because over there, it's so easy to get IDs of any kind that, you know, you're just never going to track them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not that hard here either, is it?
		I've heard stories that people can come from Mexico, and for $50 to $300, they can get Social Security, they can get a driver's license, they can get all these different IDs.
		Is that true?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can, but most of them are not legitimate IDs.
		They won't pass the test of being stopped by your friendly neighborhood gendarme.
		These places that make these phony ID mills, they're like throwaways.
		Now, there are ways to go and build a whole series of legal documents for identity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the better way to do it is to start at the very beginning with one little piece of ID and turn that into another and another and another, and pretty soon you've got MasterCard and Vs and all the rest of it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Just build yourself a life.
		It's like, you know, many people say they can't get a credit card.
		Well, there are companies out there begging to give you a secured visa, and if you have that a few years, you can get everything else.
		In fact, what you could do is you could deposit $500 in an account and get a visa in your own name.
		Then you put a second signature on that account of the new identity you're going to create called Joe Bagadonuts.
		And Joe Bagadonuts suddenly exists.
		He has credit.
		He is doing transactions.
		And you build on that ID.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then eventually Joe Bagadonuts has got a real credit card.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he can leverage that into some other kind of ID.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		All kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Pengow.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, gentlemen.
		This is Ivan Cohen from New York.
		I listened to you on WABC 770 on the AIM dial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Thank you very much, Art.
		This has been a great show so far.
		Ed, good morning.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I apologize for the mercenarious aspect of my question, but just how does one become an PI?
		What school should one go to?
		What seminars should one go to, please?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of our professional associations put on great seminars.
		I do one a week somewhere around the country every week.
		I teach a class, two classes basically.
		In the morning, I teach Be Your Own Detective to teach you how to use the databases and the information.
		And in the afternoon class, I do my how to make $100,000 a year.
		But if you really want to learn this business, the best way is to go to Investigator Association meetings, meet people, get to know them, see who's got the business, the ideas, the stuff that you want.
		If you go to my webpage, a lot of the articles I write for our investigator trade journal, PI Magazine, are on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Fans, we've got a link up right now.
		So if you go to my webpage and scroll down to Ed's name, hit the link.
		I hope you can take a lot of hits because you're going to get them, Ed.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I can do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, I put a lot of stuff on my webpage to show people where to go and how to do and how to start.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I love to see people get into this business and do well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to become a private investigator, sir?
unidentified		Well, two things, two aspects.
		A, the money, of course.
		But another thing that Ed mentioned was to do some good.
		And the way things are going in our beloved Republic, we could use more of the good guys on our side, as it were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, there's an interesting question, Ed.
		Be brutally honest with this fellow.
		If he wants to become a private investigator, to, quote, do some good, end quote, is he going to be disappointed?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		To really do some good, it's going to take a lot of sweat and energy.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you only took cases, let's say you open the door, there you are, Frank Jones, private investigator.
		You've got your office.
		You've got a secretary that chews gum or something.
		And you sit and you wait for the good cases.
		In other words, the I'm on a mission from God kind of cases.
		Do you think that you'd starve to death first?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Probably so.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Unless you have a brother-in-law that is cousin Vinny that has business to give you no matter what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cousin Vinny, all right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In this business, when you start, you basically take what comes in the door.
		You have to do a little bit of everything.
		You basically, like they say in the business, have to earn your bones and do whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does the business make you somewhat cynical, Ed?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		To some degree.
		You will see things in this business that you'll never see anywhere else.
		And it's like the movie, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
		They're all out there.
		Right.
		I still basically, you know, love to help people, believe in humanity, and every now and then somebody catches me doing a good deed, but, you know, I don't admit to a whole lot of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Milan in Des Moines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Des Moines, Iowa.
		All right, you're going to have to speak up.
		Good loud for us.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What station are you listening to in Des Moines, please?
unidentified		KRNT.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I lost you on KXTS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's K. Well, we want KRNT.
unidentified		Took me a while to find you.
		Anyway, my question, my thing is for Ed is that he's a very interesting guest, and I'm enjoying him very much.
		But he made mention of the fact that it's almost impossible to travel without credit cards.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I didn't say that.
		I said that most people have them today and want to have them.
		You can't do the airlines.
		You can't do the hotels without them.
		But there's ways around all of that.
unidentified		I do.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Just the credit cards make it easy for us.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Today, even if you go to a grocery store, they say, let us swipe your credit card or your grocery card and we'll give you free airline points.
unidentified		I don't have credit cards.
unidentified		Well, you travel by air.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		See, that's your personal choice.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Ed Kaczynski didn't want them and didn't have them either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you travel by air, right?
unidentified		I travel by air, train, bus.
unidentified		I stay in the better hotel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You pay cash?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they don't ask you for a credit card just for their verification?
unidentified		They ask.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And you just tell them no.
unidentified		I just told them I don't have them.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well.
unidentified		And also, one of the things that people told me right away was I'd never be able to rent a car anywhere.
		Uh-huh.
		Sure you can.
		You just save up a reasonable deposit.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, you know, you found a way around that.
		Many places, they won't even do it with a deposit, but some will.
		It's just, you know, it it makes it a lot harder.
		It's not impossible.
unidentified		Well, I've never chose to have a credit card.
unidentified		I don't like credit.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people are better off without it.
unidentified		Well, yeah, I personally think so.
unidentified		But that's one of the reasons why Y2K don't upset me too much, because I've prepared for it and I've don't have credit cards, so I don't worry about losing any.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's ask Ed about that.
		With respect to Y2K, everybody is pretty well connected to computers, credit cards, the information superhighway.
		Is it all about to come to a screeching logjam of a halt for even a short period of time?
		Y2K.
		I tell you what, we're coming to the top of yet another hour.
		Can you stay another hour?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you given a little bit of thought to Y2K?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you have in your business.
		Okay, stay right where you are.
		We'll be right back.
		Ever wonder how you could disappear?
		Tonight you find out.
unidentified		There's a man who leads a life of danger to everyone he meets he's there's a stranger makes another change Are you wanna live?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Secret agent man, secret agent man.
		They've given you a number and taken away your name.
		Be well on pretty pieces that you find.
		Be well on pretty pieces that you find.
		They're coming to America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And going.
unidentified		Never looking back again.
		They're coming to America.
		to America We're traveling light today To the Isle of Sky To the Isle of Scar To Talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh.
		From east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And you may call ART on the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		To reach ART from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA.
		Then 800-893-0903.
		Prevent that flags on the world to come to America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Ed Pencow is my guest.
		He's a private investigator.
		He's got a brand new book out.
		It's called Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
		We'll talk more with him in a moment.
		If you have questions, get in line.
		A lot of people want to talk to Ed.
unidentified		Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, going back to the phones with Ed Pencow in a moment.
		First, facts from, I don't think I'll give the name in Seattle.
		Somebody asks Ed, how do you get a new Social Security number with a new identity if you're, say, in your 40s?
		In other words, how do you explain to the Social Security Administration why, at the age of 40 years, you need a Social Security number when you should have already had one?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of people that their family was in the military, they were in business overseas, and they never got a Social Security number because they weren't back in the United States.
		And, you know, there's, first off, if you go to Social Security Administration and ask for a Social Security number and you've never had one, they don't care.
		They don't ask you, you know, Octung, why do you not have a Social Security number?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't care.
		they don't care that they're in that their presumption i guess is that if you have a social security number you've been contributing to it and he certainly wouldn't give it up That's right.
		That's right.
		I hadn't thought about it that way.
		One more, and then to the phones.
		Art and Mr. Mancow, I have been looking for my brother, who literally dropped out about six years ago.
		Credit reports, DMV reports, been negative for the last five years.
		Ordered your book, by the way, just now on Amazon.com.
		Plug, plug, it says.
		Please ask how I could locate him.
		His family simply wants to know he's okay.
		Nothing else.
		We just want to know that he's out there and okay.
		That's a good question.
		If somebody drops out, how do you locate them beyond the normal DMV and credit stuff?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, run a full credit report and, number one, see if there's any inquiries and also see if any insurance claim was made on him.
		If someone dies, then there's an insurance inquiry if there's an insurance policy.
		So for $5 or $6, first you run the credit report.
		The second thing you do is run a 50-state driver's license search, which costs very little, through one of the super databases like DBT or Auto-Track, one of the ones that we as private investigators use every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are presently some pretty interesting things coming out that previously only police agencies really had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can go and get software, CDs, that list every phone number in the U.S. just about.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you don't even have to buy the CD.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You can a free website like Bigfoot or Anywho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just find them.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're there free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a kind of a little bit of a worry there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, isn't it privacy in America beginning to, with the electronic age descending on us this quickly, it's beginning to disappear, isn't it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it really is, but most people give it up.
		See, we have a choice, Art.
		We have a choice between privacy or security.
		If you want privacy, then you have to give up information about yourself so people can make credit decisions to loan you money and give you mortgages and give you airline points and free credit cards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		If you want security, then you've got to give up privacy.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So there's a balance there, and each of us has to make our personal choice, which is more important to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a nation, we're beginning to make that choice, actually, at the moment.
		First time calling a line, you're on here with Ed Pancal.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		I'm Kathy calling from Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kathy.
unidentified		And listening to you on WWTN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Monster in Nashville, yes.
unidentified		That's a great radio station.
unidentified		And this is a really great program tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've got a question for Ed.
		Okay.
		Wonder if you're familiar with a missing persons case which dates back quite a ways to the mid-1960s.
		And there was a CIA employee whose name was Bishop who disappeared and has since been cited a couple of times in Spain.
		Do you know about that case?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I think I've heard a little bit about it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I haven't really followed it myself.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Well, anyway, he was a CIA worker, apparently, and was well trained in survival type of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In disappearing if he wanted to.
unidentified		Right.
		And so I was wondering why would he, and apparently the thought nowadays is that he's over in Europe somewhere, and he might even have passed away by now.
		But anyway, if you were going to look for a person like that, how would you go about it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody CIA trained, they'd be a tough target, wouldn't they?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, they would, particularly if they were committed to it and to giving up their old life.
		But, you know, time and time again, I see that after a year or two, people think the coast is clear, and they either call somebody, do something that somehow lets people know what they're doing.
		Now, another thing that really can be done, and if you've seen this new movie, Enemy of the State, you'll know a little of what I'm talking about.
		Literally, we can profile somebody, and if we know enough about them, give it A, B, and C, we can predict what they're going to do in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, people really are habitual creatures, and if you learn enough about them, you'll know what they're going to do.
unidentified		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And you can predict what and where if they have a particular interest.
		Like my former secretary said, Ed, I've worked for you for years.
		I know all your secrets.
		I could hide and you'd never find me.
		And I laughed at her.
		I said, I can find you every month.
		And she said, how?
		I'll tear up my credit cards.
		I'll have my driver's license go to my mother.
		I'll get a post office box and my mother's maiden name.
		I said, but every month you get the Barbie catalog from the Franklin Mint.
		And that's it.
		We all have something that make us a human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's really true, isn't it?
		And so you would get, since you know her that well, you would get her that quick.
		Oh, yeah.
		Okay.
		As a matter of curiosity, knowing that she got that, how would you get access to that database?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's for sale.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There are mega-information companies that make a living buying and selling mailing lists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would simply inquire about buying their mailing list?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Or if you go into the company that has it and says, I want you to tell me if this name shows up on it, and what would be the fee to tell me if it's there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or in worst case, where they wouldn't do that, would you simply Approach an employee and try and slip them a few hundred bucks under the table and say, please?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could be done, but again, today with the wonderful electronics we have, there's much easier ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That alone is.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		Let's see.
		How about if you had a relative who passed away and may have left stocks or money in bank accounts or some real estate in foreign countries or maybe in some of these offshore trusts that the IRS can get a hold of?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And then how would you find such assets, say if they're in the Bahamas or Japan or the first thing you do is go through their house with a fine-tooth comb from attic to basement and get every piece of paper, every envelope, every letter, every document, and you may find something that indicates a place.
		Another thing you do is either get their passport or request under the Freedom of Information Act, since they're a relative, a copy of the passport or the foreign travel to see what country they went to.
		Then you order a credit report on the deceased and see what inquiries and what other accounts did they have.
		And piece by piece, you pull together what they had, where they went, what they did.
		And, you know, this is something that's more sophisticated than the average person can usually do, especially if they've worked at doing this, but that's why I make the big bucks.
		I do that for a living.
unidentified		Well, how would you use a detective?
unidentified		Could you trust a detective in this so they don't walk away with the assets if they want to do it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, they can't.
		First off, most detectives are legitimate, and we have to carry like a million dollars worth of insurance to protect our clients.
		Most state law requires us to have a bond or insurance policy.
		But the other thing is, is I can tell you where the money is, but I've got to prove to that trust or that bank or whatever that I'm the legitimate heir to get my hands on it.
		I had people come to me once and said, we're the grandchildren of Haile Selassie.
		We want you to get the $100 million our grandfather hid in the bank.
		And I said, well, it can be done if it's there, but let's sit down and talk what you got.
		So these things are doable.
		It's all a function of getting enough information.
unidentified		Oh, so Yuval, you would recommend hiring a private investigator then?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, first I'd do my own work.
		First, I would go and, as I say, try to find every piece of paper and put it together.
		I'd order a copy of his credit report to get that information.
		Because if you hire a private investigator, the more information you have, the better job he can do.
		One thing you could do is link through ART to my website, and there's an article I wrote called Tracking the Global Criminal, and it tells how to find the assets, whether legitimate or illegitimate, of somebody that's taken their assets offshore.
		I literally wrote the technology on how to do this, and it's on my website.
unidentified		But what if it's an offshore trust like you were talking about that maybe to hide money from the IRS or something like that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, they would have at some time traveled to that country.
		They may have made phone calls to that country.
		So if you find a phone bill with a phone call to the 809 area code, this is a clue.
		But you've got to figure out what country it is.
		And the only way to do that is to find either in their papers, an old airline ticket, an old passport, an old phone bill.
		I had one case, and this is really funny.
		A woman came to me and said, my husband hit a million dollars offshore.
		I want to make him toast.
		I want to find this.
		I know he did it.
		I just don't know where it is.
		And I said, when he goes out of town, you go through the house, go from the attic to the basement with a fine-tooth comb and look for everything.
		And sure enough, she calls me three days later and she said, I got it.
		I got it.
		I said, all right, what do you got?
		And there's a picture of him standing in front of a bank in the Netherland Antilles with his hands up in the air like making a touchdown, grinning.
		You know that term, a picture is worth a thousand words?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, once located, boy, that guy was an idiot.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There's more horses' asses out there than horses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But once you've got the guy, all right, so his money's there, then how does she get her hands on it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, when this picture was showed to the judge and jury, and he's already perjured himself on the witness stand saying he doesn't have it, the judge gives him the opportunity to give it back or go to jail.
		You may remember our most learned attorney, F. Lee Bailey, salted away a bunch of money for a client, and he told the judge to park it.
		The judge showed him why they call jail the pokey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He spent quite a bit of time in there, actually, over that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		More than 30 days in the Tallahassee County Jail, and that is not a nice place.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's not club-fed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not club-fed.
		I want to talk to F. Lee.
		He's quite a character.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air with Ed Pencow.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, Art and Mr. Pencow.
		This is Dan Clank from Spring Valley, Illinois, listening to you on WTAM 1100.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I was wondering, what are the methods that you would suggest to find someone in a country like Mexico that disappeared maybe like seven years ago or so?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's ask it the reverse way and then your way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is Mexico a good place to disappear to?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a very large American community in Mexico.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There are several places around Guadalajara that literally are little San Diegos or little Albuquerques.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they have a very thriving American community of people that live comfortably off their Social Security.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I get letters from them all the time.
		So my caller's question is: If somebody's disappeared down there, I can see how you can use trace methods in this country, but how do you do it in Mexico?
		Or is it easier?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, it's more difficult.
		And first off, you've got to figure out where they went.
		You can't just pull out the crystal ball and say, let me see, where did they go?
		But before they went, they probably told some neighbor somewhere, when I bug out, I'm going to go to where the sun always shines and the margaritas run all day long.
unidentified		Well, I actually, I do know where, the last I knew, this was seven years ago when he left, but he said he was going to Mexico City because he had a job down there.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And my sister stayed with him for a little while, but when she came back, that's when we stopped hearing from him.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, there are some very good private investigators in Mexico City, and if you introduced them to Alexander Hamilton long enough, they would find him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, is that a fact.
		That's where I was going.
		I know Mexico pretty well.
		I love Mexico.
		I go down there a lot, and you're absolutely right.
		alexander just moves mountains down there in fact hardly does not never move down there without uh...
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		well And there were these huge parades, and nobody was, nothing was moving.
		And I had a police sergeant that was standing out there directing traffic, and I came up, showed him what I wanted, and I introduced him to Alexander, pulled out his pistol, shot three shots in the air, and cleared a path for him.
		Good man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a lot of cars, by the way, that are down in Mexico, too, right now.
		New colors, sometimes.
		Sometimes they don't even bother.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		And Walu, the bullet did surrender.
		Oh, yeah.
		And I have met my destiny in quite a single way.
		The mystery broke on the shelf.
		This song was repeating itself.
		Walu, I was repeating you all before.
		Walu, promise you'll love me forevermore.
		Walu, couldn't escape me by Walu.
		Walu, knowing my faith is to be with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And welcome back.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Glad to be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of fun.
		Listen, I meant to ask you a half hour ago about Y2K, so let me do it now.
		We are either facing this gigantic computer crash and depression, or we're facing something that's going to be a paper tiger and be nothing, or something in between.
		What's your best guess?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I think it's going to be somewhere in between.
		There's going to be some places that will experience some real problems, but I think the majority of our real important services are going to come through this okay.
		But just in case I have a new home on five acres with my own propane tank, my own well, I'm going to be prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you obviously put your money where your thought pattern was.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Listen, my daddy told me that an ounce of prevention was worth a fifth of cure.
		And I would recommend to everybody that they get some of the preserved foods that you're advertising.
		And they just have 30 days worth of stuff, just in case.
unidentified		Just in case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I've got a million questions, but I've also got a million phone lines here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed Pencal.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, Art, and good morning, Ed.
		It's a real pleasure.
		I've been listening for four months, and this is the first time I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you made it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Tucson, Arizona, listening on KNST.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, my wife and I are both disabled.
		We're both on Social Security.
		Today is check day, and as usual, we're already deciding which utility bills we're going to defer until March.
		And Belize sounds like heaven.
		And I wanted to ask Ed a couple more questions about this sort of thing.
		What amenities are available in places like this?
		Are there things like health care and television and this sort of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, how much sacrifice do you make in going to Belize?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you live reasonably comfortably by our standards?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You would live very much by our standards.
		First off, a satellite dish solves all the television problems.
		You get, you know, all 110 channels.
		The hospitals, it's really interesting.
		Medical care in these countries is very, very inexpensive because these countries run huge medical schools and many of our American doctors don't go to Harvard or John Hopkins.
		They go to Belize, U or Honduras, U and get their medical degrees and come back here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So these countries have very good medical facilities on all but the most technical things and it's either free or, you know, for somebody like this man and his wife, making, you mind saying, sir, about what a month?
unidentified		The two of us together get above $1,200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About $1,200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He could go to Belize on $1,200 a month and live reasonably?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You could.
		You could live there, live comfortably.
		Depending on their type of disability, they may have some problems.
		They'd have to look at it and anticipate it.
		But one of the things I would tell them to do is to go to one of the offshore Usenet bases and find somebody that's already there, get themselves an Internet buddy to help give them some ideas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of these Usenet groups that cater to this that would be happy to help.
		Plus, there's a magazine called International Living.
		It's a newsletter magazine, And it's the best resource for information on many of these countries.
		Go to their website, pull a few couple free articles, and think seriously about networking with them.
		It's a great resource.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's that, Color?
unidentified		It sounds good, and we're looking forward to reading Ed's book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Excellent.
		Sounds like you're selling a lot of books tonight, Ed.
		I want a copy myself.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you'll get an autographed set.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking forward to it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I need your website address, Art, and I'm sure some of them do, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It's www.artbell.com.
		Not real hard.
		That's A-R-Go.
		A-R-T-B-E-L-L, all in lowercase.com.
		And as I said to everybody, if you go to my website and we have millions and millions of visitors, Ed, and just scroll down to Ed's name and click on the link, you'll be on his website.
		Boom, like that.
		Now, here's an interesting email question.
		This person says, look, you can get away with a lot of this stuff right now, but there's legislation pending right now to create a new national ID card.
		And, of course, they are working on that, as we all know.
		Now, are they going to remove all of these little cute loopholes that we can jump through if we know what we're doing with a national ID card head?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, eventually, yes.
		But the way to circumvent all that is to go live in another country, and you can travel back here.
		Once you leave the United States, you fall off the chart of most computers and most government surveillance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about taxes?
		Let's say you go to Belize and you say, screw all this, I'm going to Belize.
		What are the taxes like there?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, their taxes are almost nothing because they live off tourism.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Plus, as an American citizen, you can move to Belize, and as long as it's your primary residence, you live there more than half a year, you get a $70,000 per person income tax rebate or deduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$70,000.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You live your primary residence outside the United States and follow the guidelines as prescribed by the law, and there's some you've got to do, but they're not insurmountable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but suppose you want to go to Belize and stay and not pay any taxes at all.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you go do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you become a Belizeani.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Belizeane.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		A Belizean, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A Belizean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's what it would be.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The Attorney General of Belize is a good friend of mine, and I promise you he will welcome you with open arms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Pencow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		All right, Disney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		I wasn't sure.
		I've been listening for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		This is David from Reston, Virginia.
		Okay.
		And two questions.
		One, how much is your book, Ed?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, my books, there's several of them.
		My book, Check It Out, is $14.95.
		Hide it all and disappear, or hide your assets and disappear, as they've now named it, I think $22.95.
		But on Amazon, they've got it marked down $400 already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you wanted to name it originally, Hide It All and Disappear, huh?
unidentified		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That was my original name for it, but my publisher liked Hide Your Ass, Ed, and Disappear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are, caller.
unidentified		One other thing I wanted to ask was, through all your investigations, Ed, have you heard of a report called the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thanks, Bluff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		Comprehensive annual financial report.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Good morning, and how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Cleveland, Ohio, home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame here listening to you on WTAM 1100.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is the home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm one of several that have called in today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, you're right.
unidentified		Listening to this same station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Anyway, first of all, I want to say I really appreciate your program for the same reason that I enjoy Gene Roddenberry and Rod Serling, because you don't insult my intelligence.
		You give me something to think about.
		Thank you.
		Ed, you sound like you're working for the Chamber of Commerce for Belize.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I love it down there.
unidentified		No, I don't have a question.
		I have a comment.
		Something that happened to me.
		I lost my wallet.
		It was stolen years ago.
		And I was amazed at how easy it was for me to regain all my identification, starting with a birth certificate, driver's license, Social Security, et cetera, et cetera.
		Now, I know that it's possible, and people have done it.
		They go back through the library and get newspaper clippings from someone who had passed away at birth.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Now you just go to the graveyard.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And you can start a whole identity from someone approximately the same age as you and start a whole new identity that way.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Preferably the same sex, too.
unidentified		Yeah, well, that would help.
unidentified		Unless you really want to change yours.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right, if you really want to try something different.
unidentified		But anyway, I just wonder if I know that this is another way of doing it rather than everybody moving to Belize.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of people that do just that.
		There's a lot of books you can buy from Paladin Press and others that teach you how to get a new ID.
		And one of the time and true methods is to basically go to a graveyard at night.
		People are dying to get in there.
		And you find somebody that died, preferably someone that died before they were 16 because they never got a birth certificate or a daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they conveniently put the date of death right there on the stone.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they'll have date of birth and date of death.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they just take over that identity.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I guess my mind just never went in these directions, so some of this is really blowing my mind.
		Go to a graveyard and actually take up the identity of somebody who was here and now is gone.
		Wow.
		All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thanks for taking my call, Art.
		Sure.
		You know, for those of us who are in the system, the difficulty with cultivating a new identity is the social security number.
		And short of reading the OBITs, can you offer any tips on ways to get around that?
		For someone who's not interested in living in the country, would want to stay in the United States, how easy is it to trace down the Social Security number by that number alone?
		And what are some ways around that, other than assuming a deceased person's identity?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, your Social Security number is going to be traceable through everything you do that ever gets reported to a credit bureau.
		If you buy a car, if you get an insurance policy, if you have a credit card, that all gets reported.
		The only way around that is to do as Ted Kaczynski does and just limit to the point he did your transactions that get reported to a credit bureau.
		The only other thing around that is to create a full new identity.
		And it's not illegal to have another identity.
		It's just illegal to use it for improper purposes.
		So, you know, it's something that you've got to decide when you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, let me stop you.
		It is not illegal to have another identity.
		It's just illegal to use it for nefarious purpose.
unidentified		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		All these movie stars, that's not their real name.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They go and file an assumed name and have a whole new identity.
unidentified		Hasn't it been declared a felony, though, as far as assuming another person's social security number?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you assume someone else's social security number, then you are going into the violation of the law.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But as far as having a new identity, there's nothing wrong with that.
unidentified		One final question then.
		Are there any discreet ways to monitor if your phone is being tapped?
		I know that sounds a little bit different.
		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good question, Adam.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Okay, not really.
		A private citizen really doesn't have the technology to determine, particularly if a government agency is doing it.
		All these devices that supposedly light up your phone when the FBI is bugging you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a bunch of baloney.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's all baloney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now, if you pick up an extension phone, that'll work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll light up and say the extension is picked up.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a good government tap, there's no way in hell.
		People say, oh, I hear clicks and static on my line.
		Got a bunch of baloney.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		That's just the squirrel running down the cables.
		But if a government agency taps a phone, they do it at the central station, and there is nothing to find.
		It's only the amateurs that go to Radio Shack and get the recorder with the voice activation and the two alligator clips.
		That's the only kind you'll ever find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		No, that's exactly right.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Ed Pencow.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I just have a question for Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'd rather not say it.
unidentified		I'm in the West Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The West Coast, right?
unidentified		Well, when I first came to this country, I applied for Social Security, and normally they would come as not valid for employment because I wasn't really legal.
		However, I did apply, and they asked me the question, and the questionnaire, they asked me, are you allowed to work?
		And I said, yes, sure.
		I basically lied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you allowed to work?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And because I wasn't allowed to work.
		And they gave me a Social Security that was valid for employment.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		And I was wondering, how does that happen?
unidentified		Do you know any of the mechanics of Social Security?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no Social Security number given that's valid for employment or not.
		There's a code in the Social Security number, and it goes like this.
		The first three digits of your Social Security number tell the state it was issued.
		So each state has a number of codes, and it tells the state.
		That's the first three digits.
		The middle two digits of your Social Security are coded by state, and it's coded to show the year the Social Security number is issued.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So you can tell that my Social Security number was issued in this state in this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And for those of us that grew up before color television, we got our Social Security number when we got our first job or joined the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Today, people get their Social Security number at birth, so you can pretty well figure out someone's age from their Social Security number.
unidentified		Yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, in one of my books, The Investigator's Guidebook, which you'll find on the web, I put the entire Social Security chart and the code for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And it tells everybody's Social Security number, when they were issued, and where.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the last four numbers?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The last four numbers are random numbers just to give each number individuality.
		So there's no employment social security number.
		Now, there is foreign student social security numbers.
		There's a certain series of numbers that are given to foreign students coming into the United States to go to school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, maybe one fast one here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Pencal.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Greg up in Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Minneapolis, all right?
unidentified		STP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I'll be there doing a seminar next month, Greg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can plug your seminar.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		When?
		Oh, let's see.
		It's in February 24th, 25th, somewhere right in that weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got a question?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Far away.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		My sister and I are looking for a lost brother.
unidentified		We possibly believe he's deceased.
unidentified		He might be John Doe in a pauper's grave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		Match a missing person.
unidentified		That's the first thing we were told is to file a missing persons report.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, file a missing persons report, and if his fingerprints are on file, you can ask the local police department to run the prints, and they might find him either if he's deceased or anything's ever showed up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But wouldn't they have done that on the other end?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when the person died as a John Doe, they'd have run the prince, wouldn't they?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, they might have, but they didn't have another set of prints to run them against, so they wouldn't know what's happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see, so if he had...
		I see.
		So if you can come up with something with his fingerprints on it, Color, there's a great idea for you.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Or if he was in the military, just tell them, you know, he did have his prints, et cetera.
unidentified		Well, he did do chime in jail, so I'm sure they got his.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, they got his prints.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got it then.
unidentified		Okay, but what about a bag of bones maybe in the desert?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, then that they're not going to find.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		There's just no way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we have a lot of lumps out here like that.
		You can see them as you drive around.
		He's lumps, you know.
unidentified		Well, he was down southwest, so outside of Las Vegas.
unidentified		I heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lumps in the desert.
		All right.
		Thank you very much, Caller.
		Listen, Ed, I've got one more hour, and this is so totally, utterly fascinating.
		You are welcome to it.
		I know you have to be in court later today, but if you're good for another hour, I am too.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, heck, I'm good for another hour.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I got the adrenaline going, and, you know, I can sleep through my deposition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's funny you should mention that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was at a deposition not long ago, and one of the attorneys did sleep through part of the deposition.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, he really did.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chicago.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		WLS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I have a collecting agency coming after me for something that I did.
		I rented a vehicle.
		It was a U-Haul for a friend of mine.
		And by accident, we hit a viaduct.
		and that causes them to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is really an interesting...
		We're coming on the top of the hour, and I like your story already.
		So can you hold on?
unidentified		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Hold on through the top of the hour.
		We will be right back with Ed Pancal.
		This is really interesting.
		His book is really interesting.
unidentified		hide your assets and disappear.
		We're about the way things might have been Because we'll keep on burning Crowd men will keep on burning And that Social Security card Rolling, rolling, rolling on a river There's a lot of plates in Milton Music Hoping I think I'm new only.
		But I'm never strong side of the city.
		Till I hit the right on a riverboat queen.
		Oh, let's go to the next.
		For the time.
		Well, I know you know better than everything I say.
		Keep me in the company for me.
		From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And you may fax ART at Area Code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Ed Bengow is my guest.
		His book is just coming out.
		You can get it.
unidentified		It's called Hide Your Assets and Disappear.
unidentified		Belize Reward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down Belize Way.
unidentified		Roaming Castleton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Belize really is just one place where you can go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are others, Central America, South America.
unidentified		We'll ask about all of that as Ed comes back in just a moment.
unidentified		Ed comes back in just a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Finally, back to Ed Pencow.
		Ed, welcome back.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really have stirred it up.
		A million people have a million questions.
		Ben Franklin put it in a nutshell, says one, when he said, those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		True story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, true story.
		And we're not just giving it up individually, are we?
		We're doing it nationally.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are.
		Big articles in the newspaper this week.
		The FBI wants literally unlimited power to wiretap on anyone who's, quote, suspected of having any involvement in terrorism.
		I mean, any one of us can be suspected of anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In whose opinion?
		In other words, a wiretap has always traditionally required a judge to say, yeah, it's justified.
		Do you mean that if in the FBI's opinion it's justified, they would then be able to simply do it on their own?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Either that or there'll be some special judges that just rubber stamp the stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smoke.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That has some real concerns.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In fact, they're going to have some hearings on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you typically be called or want to be called to testify about something like that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they don't want to hear from me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They want to hear from you.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I doubt sincerely if they would call me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back now to our East of the Rockies caller, and we were in the middle of a pretty interesting story.
		What was it again, caller?
unidentified		Yes, this is Dickie in Chicago.
		Yes, sir.
		Yes.
		Well, a couple of years ago, I had rented a moving truck for a friend of mine that was moving.
		He needed a credit card, he didn't have one.
		So um we used mine and for some reasons on to make the story shorter, well we ended up hitting a viaduct and creating some damage to the vehicle.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Like around $750.
		And they felt I was responsible, but there's a bunch of reasons why I can't get into that right now.
		Why I felt that I was not responsible for this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long ago?
unidentified		I think it was like about almost three years ago.
		So I canceled the credit card after that because I didn't want them to charge me for this.
		And since then I've been getting letters from collecting agencies and avoiding them.
		I just kind of wanted to know how long would that go on for, that open case.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, legally they can go after you for seven years.
		But first off, is it on your credit report?
		Have you ordered a copy of your credit report?
unidentified		No, I haven't ordered one.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Order a copy of your credit report and see if they put it on there.
		There's a lot of laws.
		All you've got to do is tell the collection agency, don't call me again.
		I don't want to hear from you.
		And by law, they have to stop.
unidentified		Oh, really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		If they don't, record the calls and send them a letter saying, you know, I am going to come after you under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
unidentified		Yeah, they offered to lower it, too, on me.
		They called me over the phone and they offered to lower it down to like 500 something.
		Yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are very strong laws and guidelines that tell you what you can do and can't do.
		There's a very good book called Life After Debt.
		And that book also can give you some good ideas, particularly on credit.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, other than that, I don't have a credit problem because I have a bunch of other credit cards tonight.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		One thing you can do is, first off, find if it's on your credit report.
		If it's not, then just don't worry about it.
		If they do put it on there, then you write to the Credit Bureau and say, this is not a legitimate bill.
		It's not mine.
		I want it off.
		I demand it be taken off under the FCRA.
unidentified		Wow.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they have to properly investigate it, and they can only keep it on if, legitimately, it's there.
unidentified		So they don't have any other proof or anything, then?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Wow, other than my signature on the thing is, you did accept responsibility by doing this.
		You should not do things for other people on your credit card because you do then accept the responsibility.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I asked the woman at the counter, though, to get full coverage because I didn't want to be responsible for this.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you got full coverage, that should have paid it.
unidentified		No, but she didn't fill it out.
		So it turned out that she didn't even give it to me.
		She ended up not getting charged for it, but then I asked for it, though.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, you share in the responsibility for that as far as the law is concerned.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So there's not a lot you can do about that.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, Muller.
		Very interesting.
		The most interesting credit card story I know was some lady who called my show and asked me, hey, Art, if there was a giant something out of Armageddon the size of Texas coming toward Earth and it was going to destroy Earth and we had like six months or a year or something left, what would the credit card companies do?
		Would they let everybody run the credit up or what?
		And I said, wow, what a good question.
		I have no idea.
		And so she called, I think it was MasterCard, or Visa, one of the big ones, and she got somebody finally in management who actually answered her question.
		And they said, oh, absolutely.
		We would allow everybody to go to their credit limit based on, we've actually discussed this, based on the premise that if it hits, we're out of business anyway.
		We're all out of business.
		But if it misses, we're rich.
		That's right.
		And I thought, right, exactly what they would do.
		All right.
		Anyway, that's my little credit card story.
		Here's a question.
		Ed, is there any way, according to Boz in New Mexico, for an average Joe to check and see if a neighbor has a criminal record?
		Now, that is an interesting question, actually.
		A lot of people are curious about their neighbors.
		Can they do that?
		And how?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Several things.
		Number one, criminal records are a public record, not at your police department, but at the county criminal clerk's office.
		You can either go to the county courthouse or call the county clerk and ask, does this person have a criminal history?
		You need their name and date of birth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And some places do it over the phone.
		Some you have to go in there.
		But it is a public record everywhere in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So what you need to do is know the county they reside in or possibly a county they got arrested in.
		Many states offer a full criminal history search over their state website.
		In my state, Texas, for a $3 fee, you can run a criminal history search for any felony on anybody in the state of Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I always thought this information, I used to be a police dispatcher for a 911 system, and I had access to NCIC and so forth.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I never knew that it was up on the net.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the last few years, they've put it there because, first off, it's a source of money for the state.
		And the second thing is, is many state, well, the government mandates that the information be made available and made public.
		So they found that they can kill two birds with one stone, that A, they can meet the mandate, and B, they can make money on it by offering it, you know, online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, that's absolutely remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of chilling, actually, in a way.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, and this is one thing people need to realize, is that everything's for sale.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's all a matter of price.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess that really is the bottom line, not just in Mexico either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pankow.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on.
unidentified		What a pleasant surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Los Angeles.
		Hollywood, Ed.
		Yes, okay.
unidentified		And I wanted to ask Ed, since you guys were just talking about this, I wanted to ask Ed if he makes a distinction between corporate people and law people who are persons who are not corporate.
unidentified		And apropos of this, in terms of the criminal records that people have, are they arrest records or are they convictions?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of the information is publicly available, both the arrest and the conviction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		All arrests are recorded in the county clerk's office.
		And you can read the arrest, the indictment, any sentence, what happened to it.
		It's all a public record.
		Now, online, many of the databases only provide convictions.
		But, see, the information that goes to the FBI computer in the sky, which is the NCIC, the National Crime Information Center, that information is garnished from police departments and county courts.
		Now, if you're arrested or stopped by the police for something and you're not put in jail, it may not make the county computer.
		It'll just be that, you know, you got picked up and released the next morning.
		But if you're arrested, if there's a charge made and the charge is filed with the district attorney as a criminal charge is supposed to be, that then creates a file in the county clerk's office and that becomes a public record because our taxpayers pay for it.
		If taxpayers pay for it, it's a public record.
unidentified		Okay, my question then is, do they then expunge the record once if the charges are dropped?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		No, the record of the actual arrest is there forever.
		They can expunge it if you pay your congressman or lawyer, whatever, but the actual microfish record, the initial electronic signature, it never gets erased.
		It's always there.
unidentified		Okay, well, thank you very much.
		My dad served two terms as Attorney General of Texas and then two terms as governor of Texas and finally was a federal judge the last 10 years of his life under Harry Truman's reign.
		And it's an interesting I'm glad to see.
		What part of Texas are you from?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Houston.
unidentified		Well, okay, I'm from Wichita Falls.
		But anyway, it's nice to hear you guys carry on about this.
		I hope you'll make a distinction between corporate government and between God-created human beings who are not subject to the corporate government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not that kind of world.
		I guess I wish it was that way, too, but it really isn't.
		Information is free-flowing, and the dollar really does buy whatever you want.
		Ed mentioned that he thought we were headed for a depression.
		Somebody in Charleston, South Carolina, Steve, wants you to elaborate.
		Why do you think we're headed for a depression?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that a lot of the stock market stuff that's all going now is artificial hype, that we are approaching the same frenzy that we had in 1929.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's another way of saying irrational exuberance.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's number one.
		Number two, we can look at the public record and see there's more bankruptcies now than ever in history, meaning more people have less money.
		Number three, the credit card debt is higher now than any time in history.
		So the average Joe is spending more than he's making.
		Companies are downsizing.
		There's a lot of signs that the bubble is filling with air.
		And like any other bubble, it reaches a certain point and then pop.
		And, you know, it may not be tomorrow, but that day is certainly on the tracks and it's headed this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Greenspan said the other day that he didn't think a whole lot of the president's idea of putting Social Security money in the stock market.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That would be a disaster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought the same thing.
		I thought, boy, you might as well, you know, Vegas is over the hill from me.
		You might as well send somebody from Washington and on one roll of the dice, you know, go to one of these casinos and just at least got near 50-50 chance.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roll the old Social Security money.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, yes.
unidentified		Hey, outstanding.
		Boy, I've been listening to you for a long time, and I just decided to call.
		Good.
		All right, man, I'll tell you, the Jolly Rogers you wore on the program last week was when I was on Millennium, you mean.
		Yeah, the Millennium Show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll fly the Jolly Roger outside my house.
unidentified		Well, I haven't heard anyone else say, other than the Skull and Crossbone, it is the Jolly Rogers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is the Jolly Rogers.
unidentified		Equals poison, stay away from contaminated stuff.
		Great stuff, man.
		I wear the same damn thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, do you have a question?
unidentified		Anyways, back at the ranch.
		Yes.
		social security stuff now that is a identification number and it was never uh...
		I just want to briefly say that you have quoted that we are staying warmer than New Jersey as usual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know it's cold up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How cold is it now?
unidentified		Well, out in Ellison Air Force Base, which is the third longest runway in the world, we're looking at 101 below at wind-faring temperatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that will turn your skin to stone in about 30 minutes.
unidentified		Well, it looks crystallized your upper dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's right.
unidentified		Anyways, back at the ranch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Social Security.
unidentified		Your Social Security number.
unidentified		Now, it was never intended for starters to be an identification number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says it right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says it on it.
unidentified		What do you mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says it on there, not to be used for identification or something like that.
unidentified		Well, there are people here who can't get a hunting-fishing license without giving their, you know, and there are people giving up their hunting and fishing rights without submitting their social security number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well that's the obvious question then.
		Where is all this headed, Ed, with regard to social security?
		It's obviously being used as an identification number.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, it really is.
		And what's happened is the state and the government have jumped on the bandwagon and they found that they can use this to enforce all the other laws.
		If they can identify You by name and social security number, then A, they know where your paycheck is coming from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you a little secret I know about in Nevada, and maybe you can confirm this.
		Not too many people know this, but they issue you a driver's license number here in Nevada.
		And if you know the secret code, your driver's license number is convertible to your social security number.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, 13 states actually use your social security number as your driver's license number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but in Nevada, they said we're doing away with that, but they replaced it with a system that actually converts mathematically, if you've got the formula, to your social security number.
		It's evil.
		Totally evil.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they shouldn't be doing this, but it gets done every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, I'm calling from Maine, and I'm afraid that my radio station, WVOM, isn't carrying the show right now.
		They go off around 4 o'clock in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have morning show obligations.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
		But anyway, I have a rather pedestrian question.
		It is about debt, which is one of the reasons I get to listen to your show, Art, is because I wake up at 3 in the morning in fear.
		But anyway, I have these student loans, and because of parameters surrounding custody and things like that, I can't really leave the state to look for the job in my field.
		And I did go through undergraduate and graduate school, but I'm really living bill-to-bill.
		I do work.
		I'm not on welfare.
		I've got two children.
		But I've got these student loans that are hounding me, and I just don't know how I'm ever going to pay them off.
		Do you have any ideas about what I can do?
		Are these going to follow me to my grave?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, they won't follow you to your grave.
		The obligation they can only keep it on your credit report for seven years.
		But you can go back to the agency that originally issued the student loan, not the collection agency they've hired to hound you, but go to the original agency, explain the circumstances, and ask them for a waiver or an exemption.
		And it can be done, but you've got to get to the right office, the right agency, explain the circumstances.
		Another thing you can do, if worst comes to worst, is file a personal bankruptcy because of the problems and wipe out the debt.
unidentified		Well, the creditors say that bankruptcy won't cover student loans.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Creditors lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Some of the very largest credit card companies have been fined hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for lying to people like this.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		What a valuable piece of information.
		So they just outright lie about that.
		In other words, if you mention the possibility of going into bankruptcy, they say, well, go right ahead.
		That won't protect you from us.
		That's what they say, Ed?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They say that.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		In fact, many of the credit card companies have been fined because they continued to pursue collection efforts after someone had gone in bankruptcy and wiped out the debt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		All right, hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		from the high deserts i'm art bell this is close to close to a_m_ the the the From the Kingdom of Night with Art Bell.
		It's incredible.
		Somebody just sent me a link.
		I suppose you can find it in the search engine yourself.
		i'm not going to give it out but it's a lot of theirs You can buy a passport.
		Believe passports.
		I wonder if our people look at Belize passports with some degree of suspicion.
		I think we'll ask about that when we come back.
		Ed Pankow is my guest, and he will be right back.
unidentified		Ed Pankow is my guest, and he will be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed, welcome back.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Glad to be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		Oh, one question from Larry in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
		Is it legal, is it in fact legal to have more than one Social Security number?
		And if so, how do you get another one?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		The only people that really have more than one are someone that somehow loses theirs or get it spouled up.
		A, if you have two Social Security numbers, you're not going to get credited for your earning points and everything, so you're going to lose money.
		Number two, if you do it with the intent to defraud, again, then you're crossing over into the black area of the law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you just wanted to have two without intent to defraud.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, then the question is going to be, why?
		The government does not want you to have two, and they say, no, you're entitled to one.
		That's what you're entitled to.
		And by the book, that's what you're entitled to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Hi, this is Tim, and I'm calling from St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Tim.
unidentified		Hi.
		I've got a question about I'm a I was adopted when I was seven years old.
		I was wondering if it would be possible to reclaim my identity using my birth name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a lot of people with that problem.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you need to do is to go back to the original county where you were born and get your original birth certificate.
		Either it's going to be in the probate or assumed name files of the county court, and if it is, it may be open, which then you can get it.
		Or if it's sealed, you have to go back to the judge that sealed it and said, I'm an adult now, and I need to know my real birth parents and my real birth identity so I can check my medical history.
unidentified		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And they will do that.
unidentified		Okay, well, see, now I have most of that information because I was seven years old when this Happened.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So I know where it is and I know that sort of thing.
		I've gotten birth certificates from the state where I was born in the past in my adopted name.
		Would anything exist from my birth name?
		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		So what you just want to do is go back and retake your birth name?
unidentified		Well, if I was well, I was thinking this would be a way to avoid any question of fraud or anything if I went to establish a new thing.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		If you just go to the courthouse and file an assumed name certificate for the new name, then poof, you legally have right to use that name.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
		A lot of people want to learn things that I guess a lot of people shouldn't find out.
		I mean, a lot of people want to know about their past, and when they find out, they're kind of sorry they asked.
		Have you run into that, Ed, doing jobs or?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Once in a great while, most people are very happy to, and it gives them a real sense of accomplishment.
		I did a media event like this with a friend of mine, and a woman called in.
		She was a twin.
		She'd been looking for her twin brother for 17 years.
		They were separated at two years old, and she couldn't find him, and we found him in 15 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		15 minutes well do you give out a Oh, no.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		As I say, my email address is E-J-P-A-N-K-A-U at A-O-L.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You better do that slower and clearer.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's E-JPANCOUL, which is P-A-N-K-A-U.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, E-J-P-A-N-K-A-U.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right, at AOL.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's easy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And as I say, I get probably 50 to 60 emails a day.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I can see I'm well over that already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		But I'm more than happy.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I really enjoy helping people, and if I can point them in the right direction or, you know, whatever, I'm more than happy to do so.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Penkel.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Hawaii.
unidentified		Thanks for taking the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What part of Hawaii?
unidentified		The Big Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big Island.
		Oh, way down on the Big Island.
		All right.
unidentified		Way down on the Big Island.
		Really intrigued with tonight's show.
		Thank you, Ed, for the interesting conversation.
		Two questions, kind sir.
		All right.
		You had suggested a scenario of where the bubble in the economy could possibly burst.
		And I'm looking at that even if my money is in offshore banks, that's not going to do any good there.
		What are you invested in these days?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's possibilities.
		Number one, real estate, particularly real estate in good, solid areas and places, is always going to be a good investment.
		It's funny, a lot of people are selling their real estate in Honduras right now because of the hurricane.
		Well, the hurricane wasn't really near as bad and near as wide as people thought.
		So the smart people are now buying property in Honduras for 50 cents on the dollar.
		Wow.
		So real estate is a good investment.
		And, you know, other things, the tangible things, they are always going to have certain value.
		A lot of people say, well, I'm going to buy guns.
		Guns are going to be even more valuable.
		But it's something you've got to look at and decide yourself.
		But if money really loses its value and currency, you know, then you go back to the basic, what are the things that have barter value, which is, you know, food, guns, this, that, a home, everything else.
unidentified		Do you really think it's going to get down to possibly?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's going to get that bad.
		I really don't.
		But I think that we are going to suffer a real credit crunch and we're going to lose a lot of that inflated value that we now have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever run guns?
		I'll let that serve as your answer.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pencow.
		Hi.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		Good morning, Ed.
		It's been an interesting show.
		I've enjoyed it.
		And, Ed, good luck to you in answering those emails after the Art Bell show.
		Really?
		It's going to be interesting.
		I have a couple of questions.
		First one being personal regarding my Social Security number and listening to your explanations of how you break up the numbers and get the code information out of the number.
		My second set of numbers, the two middle numbers, it's interesting.
		I got my Social Security card in 1989.
		The number on the second set of numbers is in the 90s.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Why would that be?
		Well, each state has its own code.
		What you've got to do is go to the code book and look in the state it was issued and see that say number 92 was issued in and you'll see 1989.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		Well that explains it out.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You've got to have the code book and it's like pulling teeth.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I got it and put it in one of my manuals, the Investigator's Guidebook, but it's not something that you're going to find just anywhere.
unidentified		Okay, the next question, in lieu of the popularity of the recent movie, Enemy of the State, and with all the interesting, intriguing NSA technology that may or may not exist, what kind of Big Brother scenarios have you personally encountered in all your ventures?
unidentified		And I'll hang up to listen.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically, Big Brother isn't the government.
		Big Brother is the credit bureaus.
		The credit bureaus have far more information on us today than the government ever thought of and probably will for the foreseeable future because it is in their financial interest to collect more data and massage it and sell it more ways.
		The government is busy enough collecting just what they collect and doing just what they do, but they don't have the incentive to do it that the credit bureaus do.
		So it's like 20 years ago the FBI had all the technology And private investigators had very little.
		Today we blow the doors off them.
		So my opinion is that the private industry and particularly the credit and the information gathering agencies that make a profit on selling this, they're the ones that really have got the horsepower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about that change?
		I mean, as you point out, we've got the horsepower now, the information horsepower.
		Is that a good thing?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes or no again.
		You go back to that question of security and privacy.
		If you want security, yes, it's a good thing.
		If you want privacy, you're in deep yogurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pencal.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Good to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
		Yeah, my question mainly references back to someone who was talking about student loans and in terms of credit bureaus.
		What I've come to find out is mainly it's not the credit agencies that you have to worry about so much as it is the government and like garnishing your wages later on in terms of delinquencies and that kind of thing.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And so it's not so much the credit agencies that you have to worry about, it's just the federal government taking well there I'd have to disagree with you because even the credit the government, they don't go garnish your stuff.
		They hire the credit bureaus to go do it for them.
		If you look at these things, the government really doesn't chase people anymore.
		They contract out to the credit bureaus and they go do it for them, but they have the weight of the law behind them.
unidentified		Okay.
		So and then, okay, second question.
		I see just ads and classified papers in the weeklies and stuff about getting a second Social Security number and that kind of thing.
		So how valid is that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's not valid.
unidentified		It's kind of a scam.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They do is they give you a tax ID number, and anybody that runs that can tell immediately it's not a Social Security number.
		So basically you are throwing money out the door.
		Plus, by doing that, you make yourself a target.
		You might as well get out the red paint and draw a bullseye right on the top of your head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Thank you, Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Dottie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dottie, where are you?
unidentified		Salem, Oregon.
		Okay.
		All right.
		First time caller.
		I listen to you a lot.
		I have a question about my sister has a problem with a school loan that she got several years ago.
		And the creditors are after her.
		And they say that she has to pay it back because it's a federal government, a school loan, I think.
		It's a government loan.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing is, if it's a federal government loan, that really doesn't make any difference from any other kind of loan.
		It's a debt.
		And number one, you pay those things when and if you can.
		The first thing you do is pay for your groceries and take care of your kids.
		They can't put you in jail for this.
		This is not 16th century England.
		And if worst comes to worst, they can always restructure that debt.
		You can file bankruptcy and do a restructure, wipe it out if you have no other choice, whatever.
		The credit bureaus, particularly and these collection agencies, use the guise of the federal government to try to collect debts and saying, well, it's the government.
		And that kind of debt is really no different than any other kind of debt.
		It's just like a credit card debt.
		It's an obligation.
		You are legally supposed to pay it.
		But what are they going to do?
		They're not going to put you in jail.
		And they're just psychologically trying to pressure her to pay that before they pay groceries.
		And that's a no-no.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Here's one for you, Ed.
		Famous case.
		Remember D.V. Cooper?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any thoughts on...
		Did he make it?
		Did he disappear?
		He parachuted right out of an airplane, is what I recall.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a whole bunch of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that he successfully disappeared, or do you think that he disappeared from Earth entirely?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I have heard rumors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And I suspect that he is down in one of those nice little Latin American countries living very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Ed Pencal.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Ed.
		This is Larry in Fort Lauderdale.
		How are you doing?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Pretty good, Larry?
unidentified		I have a comment and a question.
		Reference to those two center numbers in the Social Security.
		Don't look for them to be sequential.
		I know that they run odd or none.
		They run odd and even.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You've got to have the code book.
		Each state has its own codes, and they're not sequential.
		Right.
unidentified		They run odd and even, and it can throw you off.
unidentified		Pardon me?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		You've got to have the code book to know what they are.
unidentified		The question was this.
unidentified		Now that we're in the age of the Internet, can the Internet mail be traced, for instance, someone that's trying to disappear and they come up on the Internet, can PIs, private investigators, get into these ISPs and get information as easy as you can from the phone company, or are they pretty tight on that?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can be traced.
		Private investigators can't just wander into them.
		But there was a strange individual that was sending our good president email bombs.
		They sent him the encyclopedia every morning in his email.
		And the Secret Service went to the information provider and said, bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia.
		And the next day they pulled him through his keyhole.
		Right.
		They can get it.
unidentified		Well, what about at the private level?
unidentified		How would that be?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Would that be more difficult?
		But again, enough money buys just about anything.
		You can't say it can't be done.
		I would tell you it's difficult.
		But if you know somebody who knows somebody, it's like the movie The Godfather.
		Someday you will come to me for a favor.
unidentified		Okay, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really is the way the world works, isn't it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Pancow.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, hello, hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You.
unidentified		Hey, love your show.
		Thank you.
		Where are you?
		You're going to make the left side of my brain work sometimes.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Ohio.
		Ohio.
		Mike from Ohio.
		All right.
		Got a question for Ed.
		Hey, Ed, you know, sometimes we get ourselves in trouble here with debt and so forth.
		And I recently purchased a truck.
		And, well, at the time, I was having no trouble with the overtime.
		You know, the money was great and all that.
		Now I can't afford to make those payments.
		I'm wondering what the finance company will do if I quit making those payments and they retake over the truck, so to speak, and they sell that truck.
		Will I have to pay the difference if they don't get what they need out of it?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		They will claim you do, and they've got two choices.
		They can either sue you for it or put it on as a bad debt on your credit to drag around for seven years.
		What I would do is, if I were you, would be to try and sell it privately and see you can break even on it because you'd get a lot better price for it than they will.
unidentified		Right.
		Okay.
		Well, I appreciate it.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, beat them to the punch.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Ed Pancow.
		Not a lot of time.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, is this West of the Rockies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm going from San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you definitely West of the Rockies.
unidentified		Yes, Ed, when you go to apply at the California Department of Motor Vehicles for a driver's license, they take a thumbprint.
		Now, if they went in there to get another driver's license under another name, would the same thumbprint be automatically cross-referenced?
		Or are they just passively hanging around in their database for future reference?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I understand you right, first off, they don't run that print through the FBI.
		It's just they get the print so they can have some identity on you.
		And number two, one fingerprint does not a fingerprint analysis make.
		They need ten prints to do it right.
		So first off, California is the toughest state in the country to get a driver's license in because of the Rebecca Schaefer problems and everything.
		Oh, yeah.
		But you're going to have a difficult time doing that, particularly in California.
		If you were going to get different driver's licenses, you get one in one state and one in another.
		Nevada is very nice this time of year.
unidentified		I know where Yume, Arizona is, too.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean Nevada is a good state in which to do something like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Minus.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		I've heard rumors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've heard rumors.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Thank you very much.
		Ed, you have done such a stupendous job tonight.
		I guess, first of all, your book, the book that is just about to come out, the one you can get by going to my website and then going over to Amazon.com, Hide Your Assets and Disappear, that's one way to get it if you've got a computer.
		But otherwise, for the people who are going to be going to the store, when should they expect your book to hit the shelf?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		February 17th, it should hit the bookstores all over.
		And I'll just, you know, not just to plug my own book, but I've got several thousand back orders.
		I'm told that it's not going to be in the bookstore's logs.
		And if somebody wanted it in a bookstore, I'd go to them now and say, I want it now to be sure they get one when it comes in.
		Because even my other book, check it out.
		Every time they hit the bookstore, they're gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that really does happen.
		And the publishers inevitably are not prepared for it.
		And so then there's a long, dry period.
		It's a tough thing to beat.
		So anyway, February 17th, and you would go in and request it at a store now for everybody else with a computer to do it that way.
		And again, to contact you either through your website or your email address one more time slowly is.
unidentified		Yeah.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		It's E-J-P-A-N-K-A-U at A-O-L.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		And a phone number, if anybody for any reason wants to call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		713-713-224-3777.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		37777.
		That's 713-224-3777.
		Right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a tremendous guest you've been.
		We're going to have to have you back on again.
		There's a whole world of stuff we can ask about.
edmund pankau ▲ ● ▼		This was tremendous.
		This was a lot of fun.
		I'd love to do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care, Ed.
		Good night.
		That really was tremendous, wasn't it?
		That's Ed Pencow, folks, from Houston.
		And that's how to contact him.
		And that's about all the time we've got tonight.
		Tomorrow night, Robert Goatwolf, a Richard C. Hoagland, I think an archaeologist, and who knows who all else.
		It'll be about the Miami Circle from the high desert.

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