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Jan. 8, 1999 - Art Bell

02:45:46

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Stephen Bassett - Peter Davenport. Disclosure '99

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, and welcome to, uh, the Big Shoe, as Ed Sullivan used to say, from the Hawaiian Antecian Islands, west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands.
	South into South America, North all the way to the pole.
	Wherever you may be and worldwide on the Internet, thanks to Broadcast.com.
	Thank you Broadcast.com and soon Intel and Broadcast.com will be bringing you streaming live video of this program along with the audio.
	Alright, I've got a brief announcement, very nice one.
	The latest station to join our pre-feed every night is none other than KSFO.
	KSFO in San Francisco notified us today, the beginning Monday, they're going to start the show at 8 o'clock at night, Pacific Time, two hours early.
	And they'll be carrying the last two hours for those in the Bay Area that could not stay up late enough to hear it the night before.
	And this has really gone bananas.
	As a matter of fact, with KSFO we have about a hundred radio stations now.
	It's amazing.
	I announced that about two weeks ago.
	Now taking the pre-feeds, deal simple.
	We take the show, for example, we do tonight, and we begin feeding that at about six o'clock Specific time or preferred time.
	Tomorrow night.
	And so, the one show feeds right into the other.
	And you know, as listeners may fall asleep at about two or so in the morning or their local time, now those stations that are carrying the pre-feeds deliver it to you at a time when you're awake.
	Pretty cool idea, huh?
	Anyway, it took off like a shuttle in a hurry.
	And so if you are a radio station and would like to begin carrying the pre-feeds, if you
	want to be one of the ones, then you should call my network Monday at area code 541-664-8829.
	So if you're a radio station, you want to begin carrying the pre-feed.
	If you are a listener and you would like your radio station to carry the pre-feeds, then give them a call.
	You know, your local affiliate, or send them a card.
	And, uh, you just never know.
	Because we've hardly even moved on it.
	I mean, we haven't even tried!
	And we've got about a hundred radio stations, including now the nation's fourth largest market.
	Thank you, Jack Swanson.
	Carrying the show before the show, and they kind of sort of dovetail one into the other.
	Anyway, in a moment, Peter Davenport has got a report for you about something that has just happened.
	National News, Senate Friday, unanimously, how unusual, voted on rules for the President's impeachment trial with opening arguments set now for next week.
	Moments after the one hundred to Zero vote.
	A formal summons was dispatched to the White House, and I saw it go, and they had this big vehicle, and they drove it really dramatically slowly toward the White House with the summons, you know.
	I'm surprised they didn't use a hearse.
	Now, the Pentagon today has doubled its estimate of how badly we have injured Saddam and Company.
	From one year to two years setback for Saddam, they now say, the market hit Friday its second new high of $19.99.
	Oh, is there any end to it all?
	The profits, $9,643.32.
	Oh, is there any end to it all? The profits...
	9,643.32.
	Good Lord, that thing's going up like a rocket ship, isn't it?
	You get it all nervous when you see those numbers begin to happen.
	BYE!
	All right, well, anyway, it's going to be a packed show.
	In case you're wondering what's coming up, Stephen Bassett tonight, Joe Firmage, the gazillionaire who's got these MJ-12 documents out, Dr. Stephen Griffsey Setty.
	That's right.
	Richard C. Hoagland, Peter Gersten, William J. Burns, James Rejavik, and Jim Mars.
	We've got quite a lineup, so I guess we better get going.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	www.artbell.com Alright, tonight is going to be Disclosure 99.
	All the big names, and you're going to hear what's going on, all that's new, and what to expect for the coming year in Ufology.
	We've got them all here.
	And right now, we've got from Seattle, Washington, at the National UFO Reporting Center, one Peter Davenport with a very, very interesting story for you.
	Peter, welcome.
	Thank you, Art.
	Nice to be here again.
	Good to have you here, as always.
	How have the skies been?
	Well, the skies have been pretty quiet from our vantage point up here, and interestingly, that is not atypical for the holiday season.
	It's something we don't understand entirely, but every holiday season, probably a few days before Christmas, Things tend to quiet down, and they stay that way, thankfully, until after the first of the year.
	Peter, that's pretty strange.
	I wonder if... I wonder if, oh, I don't know, in Iraq during Ramadan, they have fewer sightings.
	Well, not this last Ramadan, of course, but, I mean, you know... That would make for a very interesting study.
	Yes, it would.
	It's something that my predecessor, Bob Gribble, also noticed.
	It would tell us whether they are Christian, Or have a propensity one way or the other, that's for sure.
	What I suspect is they may realize that their ships scare reindeer, and they certainly don't want to do that, so they stay out of the skies during that period.
	Having said that... I speak facetiously, of course.
	I'm particularly delighted to be on tonight, Art, not only because of the very interesting program that's coming up with some of the big names in ufology, but Also, because we've had a very interesting report, I'm going to play an audio cut here shortly, come from Northern California tonight, and it's one of those reports that are damnably frustrating to serious-minded ufologists, because they're intriguing, they seem to convey really interesting material, but so far we have only one report on this one, and as much as a desire to communicate to our listeners tonight what has happened just recently, and recently means within the last two and a half hours,
	is a desire to invite people if they saw this thing that I'm going to be describing and talking about tonight or heard it.
	It was quite audible.
	We would welcome any kind of reports from individuals who are witness to it.
	Now, we apparently have some sort of expert witness because this lady is or was a pilot?
	Yes, she's, again, all of this is from one source.
	I wish to underscore that as I traditionally do our But she sounds very sane and sober and I spoke with her about her background in aviation.
	One of the reasons that's interesting to us or of significance is that we find and have found for years or decades now that people who are accustomed to flying or being around aircraft obviously have looked at them enough to be able to distinguish aircraft from perhaps something else.
	And this woman communicates to me that she's flown some 26 different types of aircraft.
	She was married to people who were airline pilots in their respective days, and she's worked for the airline.
	She just knows aircraft.
	She first reported to me when we first talked this evening that she has waited, according to her, for some 50 years to see a UFO.
	She's never seen one before tonight, she believes.
	And that all makes the report Somewhat unique, somewhat interesting to us, and it underscores why we'd like more information from Northern California from anybody who might have seen or heard this object.
	Because apparently this thing was loud.
	This thing that went over Paradise, California.
	That's about 16 or 18 miles east of Chico, California.
	Oh, I get a lot, a lot of calls from Paradise.
	Really?
	Yes, I do.
	Yeah.
	A lot of listeners there, so you will get response.
	We've had a lot of reports from Northern California in past years.
	I don't know why that's the case, but at one time we probably got more calls from California than we got from Washington, and I suspect we're more well-known in Washington than we are down even in Northern California.
	But let me play about a two-minute audio cut, if I may, and it'll give our listeners some idea of what was seen tonight, reportedly, At 7.30 I heard a horrendous noise of some sort like something low going over the house.
	We'll then discuss it. All right. Oh, it's about two minutes cut go
	730 Horrendous noise of some sort like
	something going over the house and I didn't know if a branch fell off, but picked up a storm
	and I ran out with Crystal-clear dark sky with no clouds or fog or any haze
	Okay.
	And the sky's filled with bright stars.
	And I looked to the west and hitting that huge craft.
	Certainly not an airplane of any kind.
	Because I'm a pilot and I would recognize this immediately.
	It was diamond shaped.
	Elongated diamond.
	It was black but it had lights all around.
	But in the center it had a circular Like a starburst, and it was continuous.
	And it had a deep humming, roaring noise.
	It wasn't silent.
	It was heading directly west toward the Pacific.
	It was spectacular.
	I called my son out, and he saw it too.
	How long did you see it, do you estimate, please?
	Three minutes.
	I ran in to look for your telephone number.
	If you were to put the object that you saw tonight at its largest, Right next to the disk of a full moon, which would appear to be larger, please?
	The ground.
	Okay, it was larger than the full moon.
	You were saying about Beale Air Force Base?
	Yes, that's... I've never been in there, but there's a huge air force base.
	But I can't imagine any West Coast airfield that I know of having room enough for this thing to come down.
	It would have to go way out in the desert someplace to find a space to sit down.
	It was huge!
	Okay.
	And any distinctive color to it that you can identify?
	Well, being a dark night, with no moon, I could see it was black, and the lights weren't colored.
	That starburst in the center of it looked like sparklers going off.
	It was white light, all white light.
	If it had any colored lights, they weren't quite as huge.
	And where are you located, please, relative to Chico?
	Paradise, California, about 15 to 18 miles east in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada
	Mountains.
	That happened two and a half hours ago, Art.
	That sounded big.
	It was apparently very big from her vantage point.
	Now, my first suspicion was something coming out of Beale Air Force Base.
	I suspect the military, specifically the Air Force, has a lot of very interesting pieces of equipment about which we know nothing or very little.
	My first suspicion on this one would be the so-called Aurora aircraft or any derivatives from that essentially reconnaissance platforms that can move very fast get where they're going take photographs presumably or detect things with other types of sensors and get home equally quickly that would be my suspicion but when I queried her on this she said that it was visible for about three minutes and it appeared to be low
	In the sense that she could see certain things, certain aspects about this, that she didn't think she would be able to have seen if it were at a higher altitude.
	Detail and so on and so forth.
	Sure.
	Although, terribly difficult to estimate with any accuracy whatsoever.
	Absolute altitude, although she is a pilot.
	Alright, well I absolutely can guarantee we'll figure out if more people saw it.
	Chico Paradise we cover like a blanket, so... Yeah.
	Let us give out your contact number.
	Yeah, I'll give a telephone number and I'll also give out our website.
	People can submit reports over the internet to us now.
	We're getting about 50 a day, Art.
	Okay, good.
	Some of them are very good.
	And our website address is www.ufocenter, nine letters, one word, ufocenter.com.
	That should do it.
	Peter, thank you so much.
	I've got a couple of things I've got to squeeze in before the bottom of the hour.
	I'll let you go, Art.
	Thank you so much for the time.
	Just a dynamite report.
	Thank you, Peter.
	The National UFO Reporting Center in Washington.
	From Linda in Sarasota, Florida, the following, I want to get this in, Art.
	The Greyhound, actually this was, she said, the lead star in FOX 13 in Tampa.
	The Greyhound Racetrack in St.
	Petersburg has been closed tonight due to the deaths of five champion greyhounds and the serious illness of hundreds of others from a mysterious virus.
	Since 1925, when greyhound racing began in St.
	Pete, there has never been any sort of incident like this.
	What we're going to have to do is obviously follow this story very carefully.
	Thank you very much for that.
	And Art, the other night when you were interviewing Michael Theroux, a woman called in to ask about seeing robins in her yard in Michigan.
	Well, you know, I live near Pueblo, Colorado, and I have twice this week alone seen large flocks of geese flying North.
	This puzzled me, and I was wondering if it is common to see geese flying north during the first week of January in Colorado.
	I don't think so, Brad.
	I don't think so.
	There was a power outage in California, LA, and from what we can see, Southern California Edison reports this afternoon at a press conference That they had, quote, no explanation, end quote, for last night's widespread blackout in Los Angeles.
	This is contrary to the information they gave out when they were called earlier in the day as a private citizen.
	The SCE representative indicated the breaker was tripped at the La Cienega substation due to a massive power surge of unknown origin.
	Oh, that's clear.
	That's certainly clear, but they've now redacted that, and they're saying they have no idea why the power went out.
	You don't suppose it could have been an early Y2K, do you?
	And then this, due to an unanticipated computer problem, the year 2000 bug, the Y2K, has struck our interim parolee tracking system arch, IPTS, One year early without going into a long technical explanation, there is a protection or edit in the vehicle year field that is designed to prevent invalid years from being entered.
	IPDS will no longer allow any vehicle year to be entered, although the rest of the vehicle data is unaffected.
	Very, very interesting.
	I am getting now on a daily basis I would guess in the hundreds of emails or whatever, faxes, letters from people saying, hey Art, guess what?
	Y2K already is here because it's affecting us.
	It just hit us.
	And that would seem to verify Reports that Y2K will actually, on January 1st, 2000, only produce an 8% change.
	8% fallops.
	The rest of it will be spread over this year, and of course, next year.
	So, use your own judgment as you listen to these reports.
	Will something happen January 1st, 2000, and close in?
	I'm beginning to guess the answer is, oh yes.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	Without your love, oh baby.
	Don't leave me this way, no.
	I can't exist.
	I'll surely miss your tender kiss.
	Don't leave me this way.
	Baby!
	My heart is full of love at this high for you.
	Now come down and do what you gotta do.
	You started this fire down in my soul.
	Now can't you see it's fine?
	It's fine.
	I'm sorry.
	oh so
	so so
	so you're listening to arkbell somewhere in time tonight
	featuring a replay of coast to coast am from january 8th 1999 no matter really whether you be a
	skeptic nor a believer I'm telling you that what you are about to hear tonight will help you make up your mind.
	This is Disclosure 99.
	Some of the biggest names in ufology are going to be here.
	Stephen Bassett, who actually is a lobbyist in Washington for ufology, will be here in a moment, in fact.
	Joseph Firmage, who is a gazillionaire and got ...these new MJ-12 documents into circulation.
	Dr. Stephen Greer, who runs an organization known as C-SETI, Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
	Richard C. Hoagland, you know Richard.
	Peter Gersten, an attorney, mostly for ufologists, as a matter of fact, and publisher of the Cause Update mail list.
	William J. Burns, who's the new publisher of UFO Magazine and co-author of The Day After Roswell.
	James Urjavik, who contributed to the case for the face, meaning the one on Mars.
	And, speaking of Mars, Jim Mars, author of Alien Agenda, investigating the alien presence among us.
	That's quite a line-up, huh?
	Stephen Bassett is the founder of the Paradigm Research Group.
	He is author of the Paradigm Clock website and is the only registered lobbyist in the U.S.
	which represents extraterrestrial phenomena research and activist organizations for which he has worked pro bono.
	That's right.
	You know what that means, right?
	Free.
	Has worked for free.
	Since early 1997.
	He's up next.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Speaking of big and really big, that is tonight's program.
	Here from Washington, D.C., or nearby, is Stephen Bassett.
	Stephen, welcome.
	Good evening, Art.
	Welcome from the impeachment capital of the world here.
	I guess it all gets underway next week.
	The one thing I'm unclear about, and maybe you know, are we going to get to see it?
	I'm not clear on that.
	Well, there's two issues there.
	Will they televise it?
	I'm sure that some of it will be televised, but there are some aspects of it, even by constitutional law, that cannot be.
	But more importantly, there's another basis for seeing it, namely this, that the Senate is filled with mostly men, as it happens, who I think are a lot smarter and wiser than their House counterparts.
	They don't have any plans, as far as I can see, to throw themselves on the bonfire that the House has built.
	So, if you're out parking the car, you just might miss the conclusion to this one-year fiasco, because I think they're going to wrap it up pretty quickly, and not prolong this.
	In other words, they will reach a juncture point, it is my understanding, when they will decide whether to even proceed with the trial.
	In other words, if there is enough evidence to even keep going, Do you think it'll make it past that point?
	I think it will.
	I think they will open the trial, and then they will very quickly sort of move towards a censure vote of some kind.
	I think that's my call.
	I doubt that they would not even have the trial.
	They don't even open it.
	I think there'll be some people in the House to offend it.
	But again, my call is it's going to be fairly quickly, and I've got my fingers crossed.
	And then censure?
	Censure, yes.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's kind of my call, too.
	So we agree.
	Do you want to outline a little bit of what you've been doing and what we've got coming up tonight?
	Yeah, let me put this program in perspective and I'll try to be quick on this.
	I hope some of your listeners have got a good memory.
	One year ago, actually last Tuesday, the 5th of January, you hosted a program similar to this one.
	Well, the centerpiece was the public airing by Dr. Stephen Greer of briefings on the UFO issue given to President Clinton, Hillary Clinton, advisors to the President, and the CIA Director, Admiral Wolsey.
	That's right.
	Now, that program could have been the opening to an extraordinary year of political engagement, but instead we got something quite different.
	I think your audience, if I'm not mistaken, is familiar with the concept of missing time.
	Yes.
	Well, this last year has been the worst case in memory of political missing time.
	Frankly, if the entire House and Senate had been scooped up last January by a mothership, taken to the other side of the moon, forced to watch three Stooges reruns for twelve months... Not a bad idea, actually.
	Might help them out.
	And brought back on January 1st of this year, not knowing that they were gone, the political substance of this last year would have been just about the same.
	Fact is, that's just about to end, and for the reason I just mentioned, I think this is going to get wrapped up.
	And when it gets wrapped up, These gentlemen and ladies from the House and the Senate are going to have to go back to work.
	And something more important than that is this.
	Part of my job is monitoring up to 20 to 30 hours of political commentary and talk programming every week.
	Almost all of it is national.
	And over the past year, I can say without fear of contradiction, 50% or more of all of this programming, hundreds of hours, has been devoted to the scandal impeachment.
	And in a very short amount of time, this program is going to be in need of new issues.
	And we've got one, because during the last year, the research went on, the sightings continued on moths, important events occurred, which we're going to run through here very quickly.
	But admittedly, the politics of disclosure, and of course for those of you who don't know Disclosure in this context means formal acknowledgement by the U.S.
	government of an alien presence.
	It's a real unambiguous word.
	That's going in the tank, but that's going to end.
	What we're going to do is very quickly recap what happened in 1998, talk about what to look forward to this year, talk about some of the events, discuss some of the more controversial issues, and to begin that, Let me try to give another metaphor to the audience, and that is that classic moment in War of the Worlds, the one with Gene Barry, where they drop the nuclear bomb on the Martians, right?
	I recall.
	And they're very satisfied, very smug, thinking that they've pretty much taken care of these guys, and they've got the smoke everywhere, and they've got their glasses, and then finally the smoke starts to clear, and lo and behold, they're still there.
	Well, in the House and Senate, And the media suddenly find themselves with something else to do.
	They're going to find out something rather remarkable.
	The issue is still there.
	The researchers are still here.
	In fact, we've got more of them.
	The political initiatives are still there.
	The number of people aware of the issue has gotten larger than ever.
	We have it gone away, and now we're ready to get down to business.
	Perfect example.
	The petition.
	The petition for open congressional hearings.
	For the government witnesses to testify before Congress, which started out in Roswell in 1997.
	Right.
	The 97 petition.
	Then it became the 98 petition.
	Well, it's now the 99 petition.
	And that petition is up on several websites, including the Paradigm Clock website, which is always you can get to by going to the Art Bell site and jumping on over.
	It can be downloaded and distributed amongst your friends and associates, and then sent into Tucson, Arizona where they're being collected.
	But there's a new addition.
	At the Paradigm Clock site, you will also find an email petition.
	It's possible now to go to an email form, fill it out with required information, and simply send it in via email.
	Those are going to be collected, and they will then be recorded onto a CD, How many tens of hundreds of thousands they are, and that CD along with the written petitions are going to be submitted when we finally trot those up to the House and Senate.
	And to make it even more interesting, my esteemed webmaster, and let's face it, in the 21st century you're nothing if you don't have a Crackerjack webmaster, and obviously you know you have.
	My webmaster Jim Boka has put together a HTML script that is
	available on the email site so that any other webmasters out
	there who want to grab that can simply plop it into their site
	and immediately create a link graphic directly to the email petition form so that people anywhere in the world can put
	their selves into play petition-wise without having to get into paper.
	The paper's still important.
	We want people to do that because that's a very powerful and personal thing.
	But now we can have electronic and paper email.
	Next thing, next week I'm going to re-white the advertisement
	that was planned to go in the Washington Post and possibly other papers directly confronting the Congress and the
	President on the key issues in this matter of disclosure.
	What about timing?
	I mean, surely this cannot be the right time to run that.
	Oh, absolutely not.
	What I'm doing is I'm going to re-write it and bring it up to date, reflecting what happened and make it more topical and current.
	Then we're going to send it out to the Paradigm Research Group and a number of other key colleagues for them to review and hash over so we get the language where it needs to be.
	And then we're going to start up again the process of trying to get top people, noted people in this country from fields of entertainment and high technology, politics, academia, wherever, and of course, field of ufology to sign.
	We've got room for 88 signatures there.
	And then we're going to get the funding and then we're going to plop it into the papers later this year after the impeachment is over and things have settled down and we're back to business as usual.
	Steven, you are the eternal optimist about what can be done with political pressure.
	That is your job to be that.
	Do you remain as optimistic as you have been that the avenue for disclosure is the avenue, you know, the brick road you're going down?
	Yes, two points.
	One, This is a great country.
	I have some big beef with the government, a lot of your audience do, but let nothing be mistaken.
	This is a great country, and one of the reasons it's great is that we're still at a point where there's nothing about how this country operates, about any aspect of federal, state, law, or anything else, that the people of this country cannot change by the application of their will.
	How about wishful thinking?
	Not by griping about it over the back fence, but if they exercise their will, they can change anything.
	Let us hope that we never live long enough to see the day when that is not the case.
	And the fact is, is that this issue is growing in awareness, and it's too important and too big, and I believe that the American people are going to apply their will, and they will get what they want, and that is an open government.
	And if you're going to have open government, this secret has got to be one of the first But Stephen, you're dealing here, let me be me, with a secret that, if it is what we think it is, is manipulated by people that are actually, if they are within the government, they're a little cabal, if they're without, then they're a little cabal, and they actually can decide how much to tell or not to tell a president.
	So how, through constitutional means, do you break that one open?
	Well, we've talked about this in past shows, and I hope I can come back and really dig into this in another show.
	Essentially, that's what they've been doing for 50 years, information management.
	The UFO issue is a sub-wing, a highly, very concrete, bunkered sub-wing of the Secret Empire, the larger intelligence infrastructure that we've built up.
	Managing information, whether it be in this country or other countries, Propaganda or VOA or whatever else they do, and they're very good at it, is what they have done for 50 years.
	The problem is, is that the awareness level, the evidence, the number of people that are getting involved, media, television, high technology, you name it, has simply gotten so massive that they cannot cover all the holes.
	They can't plug up the holes in the dike.
	And they're simply running out of the ability to manage the issue.
	And while they may, some may keep trying, they're losing ground.
	And as a result, Disclosure will take place because they're not going to allow themselves to be completely backed into a force majeure.
	But let me add some very important points.
	Even if one made the case that it'll never happen through this political initiative, that somehow it's going to have to come in through the back door or never at all, I believe we must have a political initiative because if this business comes through a back door, Or through some sort of force majeure.
	It is going to be a very unpleasant experience for the American people.
	It is very disempowering to have that kind of thing crammed down your throat.
	Oh, yes.
	If we actively pursue it, and if we get it through hearings, and if we use the tools that the government has provided us, and we created ourselves in the Constitution, then we are actively creating our own reality.
	We are making these things happen, and it's going to be a lot easier to deal with them.
	Hey, let's assume the president does not get convicted and that he's back as president and things calm down in, oh, I don't know, say a month and a half or two months.
	And I'd be about that long.
	He will then be, of course, a lame duck.
	And he'll go work on what he can do.
	Would that be the right moment for you?
	Would the president, as a lame duck, be easily influenced in this area?
	Absolutely.
	First of all, understand, we're having a President impeached.
	The last year has been some lost time, but it wasn't like we took a nap or went to a bimini.
	The President was impeached.
	It's a major event.
	It's only happened one time before, and the situation the President is going to be in when he survives, and I think he will, this process, is going to be unique.
	We've got a man who He's had, in many respects, a spectacular presidency.
	As a matter of fact, there's a synchronicity.
	His approval rating right now, since he's been impeached, is about 75%.
	And that's not very far off from the number of people nationally who believe UFOs are real.
	I like that, Art.
	I'm going to steal that from you.
	May I?
	Exactly.
	This is a man who had the potential for an extraordinary legacy, and he himself, well, let me put it this way, he helped his enemies take it away from him.
	But he has time.
	There are two years left on his term, and the biggest issue in the history of the human race is parked right under his nose, and under Ted Koppel's nose, and Kay Graham's nose, And Brokaw's nose, and Rather's nose, and a lot of other noses, to be perfectly honest.
	Yes, yes, but speaking of his particular nose, he's going to want a legacy.
	He's not going to want the legacy to be the president who was impeached and not quite convicted, or not even close, or however it turns out.
	He doesn't want that as a legacy.
	And the one thing, the one thing that might erase that would be this.
	Clinton may be the perfect president for this, and here's why.
	He is a liberal.
	He is much more of a populist president.
	Therefore, he's probably, in spite of some very disturbing directives that he signed during his presidency, which have kind of been bones thrown to the military-industrial complex, which is a whole other show, but certainly in terms of his principal policies, he's been a populist.
	The people are on his side.
	He is certainly a president who potentially could help ensure that the people's interest in a How would you say pre- to post-paradigm transition would be well served?
	But at the same time, because he is very lame, disgrace some would say, not too much of that being sort of the right guy at the right time would, I think, accrue to the Democratic Party.
	The Republicans would probably still hold their own in the next election and not suddenly find that the balance has been way tipped to the Democratic side.
	So, it's like a fair playing field for them.
	They could still have Clinton be the disclosure president, and yet have a decent chance to elect their own president in the year 2000.
	So, and Clinton gets a legacy.
	Everybody wins.
	So, in a sense, I like the setup, right?
	It's obviously a pretty complicated setup.
	It's not like they're setting the table, but I think the time is right.
	I don't want to wait for the next election.
	There's too many things that could happen.
	You could see an entrenchment of the conservatives again.
	You could see Well, the continualization of the militarization process, as we're seeing, I think would be ill-advised to wait.
	So I'm advising your audience to get on the stick, get on the fax, get on the email, on the phone, let's start putting the pressure on the Congress now.
	Let's give Clinton his legacy.
	All right, Stephen, hold on.
	When we come back, we'll be joined by Joseph Firmage.
	We'll join Stephen Bassett and myself, and he's a very, very interesting man.
	Young, rich, And very interested in what's going on out there.
	MJ-12 and all that.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AMX-CX-8.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	Good morning and welcome to what we are calling Disclosure 99.
	And we've heard so far from Joseph Firmage, Stephen Bassett, who will remain with us throughout the evening, and coming up in a moment, along with Stephen Greer, is Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard is the founder of the Enterprise Mission, author of the Monuments of Mars, has won numerous
	awards, including the Angstrom Medal for Excellence in Science in 1993, has addressed the UN,
	he's got quite a history, and so he will join us in a moment.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8, 1999, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8, 1999, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, once again, Stephen Bassett, Dr. Stephen Greer of C-SETI, and now from Washington State, somewhere, Richard C. Hoagland, somebody you should all know, Richard, welcome to the program.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	I'm actually talking to you, Art, from the other side.
	The other side?
	You have time travelers, and I'm talking to you tonight from the other side, the World Corporate Headquarters of the other side.
	This is a project we've been involved in with Fox this week.
	We've been up here shooting portions of a TV special.
	Oh, yes.
	Which will air in March.
	And these folks, very kind folks, who we met some months ago, have been involved in a very important project with the Enterprise mission, which involves the simulation, the rather remarkable, state-of-the-art, computer graphic simulation of a ground expedition and exploration of Cydonia, based on the latest data that came from the Mars Global Surveyor last April.
	Well, that'll be a surprise, because most of the American public thinks there's nothing there now.
	After what NASA released, as you recall.
	Including the famous art bill cat box image, yes.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Well, not only is it going to be a surprise in terms of Cydonia, but in terms of disclosure, the subject of the show tonight, I'm going to tease ruthlessly here right now.
	Okay.
	We have got a remarkable connection between Mars, Cydonia, and Egypt.
	The special is involving the opening of a chamber under the Sphinx.
	That's the live part.
	There is a background part that's also going to be aired prior to that.
	And that's what we have been involved with the folks here at The Other Side.
	I don't suppose you'd like to discuss the politics of how that opening is going to occur on Fox because last I heard there was no chance the whole thing fell apart.
	I bet you can't talk about it.
	Ah, you're right.
	Okay.
	But we will have a major new unveiling, a revelation, a rather striking, dramatic, fundamentally inarguable new set of data points, more dots to connect, that are going to be part of that first hour.
	All right, you're not on the best of phones.
	You're going to have to kind of get right up on it and yell at us.
	Richard, listen, there's something very important time is pressing.
	We've got to know these weather images are creating a stir.
	I mean, they're really creating a stir.
	Thank goodness.
	And I guess I would like to hear a conversation between yourself and Dr. Greer, because I think you've had some conversation about these very anomalous images on your website.
	Stephen and I met and discussed this at Robert Ghostwolf's Impact 2000 conference a couple, three weeks ago in Las Vegas.
	And he had never seen them before and was intrigued.
	I think that's a fair statement, Steve, right?
	Well, yeah, they're very unusual.
	Of course, it's outside my area of expertise and I haven't had time, I've been traveling, to get them in front of some people who I think might have an opinion.
	So, to me, they're still quite anomalous.
	I don't know quite what they represent.
	Well, one of the things we discussed was, Stephen, taking them to the right military folks.
	I have been impressed with the quality of the faxes that have come in from non, shall I say non-connected experts.
	I think you're getting about the same kind of fax material.
	I am from weather people, from radar people, yes.
	And we have two camps.
	We have the camp that says who's connected to the system.
	Oh, it's nothing.
	We've been doing this for 20 years and it looks like all the anomalies we know.
	And then those are the folks who are connected.
	The ones who are not connected, the ones who are free agents, the ones who are Well, free agents are much more, shall we say, bold and upfront with, this is bizarre, this is fascinating, this is never before seen, this is unprecedented, this is inexplicable, and we need to get to the bottom of it.
	For the American public who doesn't know what we're talking about, there are images you can see by going to my page, going to the Enterprise Mission page, linking to it, and looking at these.
	Circular radar photographs of either snow or rain or some type of precipitation and they appear to show an energy impact recorded on the radar.
	That's what we believe we're seeing and to take it even a step further, Richard believes, I think Richard, don't you?
	That this is evidence of weather control.
	Somebody Well, not exactly.
	I heard you say this with Michael Thoreau the other night, and there's been a lot of data thrown at us in a very short period of time, so it's understandable that you might not exactly understand what I'm saying.
	What I think we're seeing is a side effect.
	The weather modifications and the weird extreme low frequency radio signatures that are affecting some people's brain waves and some people's moods and all that.
	I believe is a side effect of a primary defense system which has been stealthily put in place over the last several years and tested this year and was turned on in December, which I believe is what the whole EQPEG message, the coded message, was ultimately trying to get us to look at was the civilian ability to eavesdrop.
	Because the weather radar is looking at weather, but radar is radar.
	Radar bounces electromagnetic signals, very high-frequency signals, off stuff.
	Off airplanes, off, you know, precipitation, off hail, off snow.
	And it can be calibrated in terms of radar returns, so that when you see your local TV weather, or you see Valerie Voss on CNN, or you see the Weather Channel, you're seeing a very high-tech tool, which has been tuned specifically to respond to precipitation.
	And also, Richard, what do you believe?
	You're saying you believe this now to be a side effect of a... The weather modification and the radar signatures is a side effect of the radar reflecting off other stuff.
	It's not just weather.
	It's not just precipitation.
	For instance, the rings, and I'm going to put a rather detailed model up in the next week or so after I get done with this box commitment, The rings, we believe, are the radar actually interacting with the ionosphere.
	This so-called next-rad radar, this next-generation radar, is not that new.
	All the folks that claim, oh, this is brand new and there's bugs in the equipment, guys, come on, wake up.
	This next-rad radar is really 20, 30 years old.
	It's from the military.
	It's from the highest, best, you know, far-out technology Which the armed services had 20 years ago, that's now a hand-me-down to the civilian sector.
	So all the bugs were worked out decades ago.
	That's a misnomer.
	That's a misdirection.
	What this radar is able to see, at a sensitivity level, are things that it wasn't ever designed to see.
	In other words, the weirdness is not weather.
	The weirdness is not calibrated jumping frogs all over Calaveras County.
	The weirdness is not flocks of birds all deciding to migrate outward from the airport.
	The weirdness is that the radar is reaching out beyond the horizon.
	And if you look at the geometry of the circles, it literally is the beam leaving the ionosphere of the Earth over the horizon from the radar site.
	The fact that the intensity of that beam is strongest at the outer boundary is a key clue in the physics that we're getting radar return from the electron density of the ionosphere, which has the longest path length at the edge of the beam.
	Dr. Greer, you deal a great deal in trying to break down barriers of government secrecy.
	Do you consider it plausible that our government is experimenting in the kind of areas that Richard talks of?
	Well, yes, certainly it is.
	And I know that there are a lot of very advanced physics that have been put into place Related to this Strategic Defense Initiative and other programs, which quite unfortunately have been put in place, not for what the public have been told or even Congress have been told, but have been put in place to target and track and in some occasions destroy extraterrestrial spacecraft.
	So I think that the question is whether some of these anomalies may be related to those systems.
	I really don't know.
	There's no way for me to know that.
	And at this point, because I haven't been able to get it to people who might be able to pass an opinion on it, but I do know that there are very advanced high-energy and acidic systems that have been put online in the last decade, since 1990, and that our operational, functional capacity to track, to target, to set up weapon systems of against these extraterrestrial vehicles has gone up exponentially.
	I think that's very unfortunate.
	I don't think there's any reason to put those systems in place, but I think that they are being put online, and from people I know in the military, they have told me that this is a continuing problem, that there is an attempt to militarize space, to put systems in place that could actually be very dangerous to world security.
	Richard, you might like to know, I don't know whether you caught the show with Michael Thoreau or not.
	I caught part of it the other night.
	He has been at times a detractor of yours, but even he agreed that the government and science is plowing ahead without regard in these kinds of projects for the American public, health or otherwise.
	I was interested in some of the comments of Mr. Firmage and the concurrence of Steve Greer That what happened in the last 50 years, from the time this so-called alien problem first, you know, hit the fan, is that there's been a privatization.
	There's been more control at the hidden, clandestine, ultra-black ops level, with the mainstream command structure, the civilian authority, the military infrastructure, the head of the CIA, all the folks we think are in charge.
	On this subject, I don't think they're in charge.
	That's correct.
	And I think what we're seeing in the radar signatures is something that's so amazing because we now have the ability with the civilian technology to eavesdrop on the ultra-black world of the super hyper-dimensional high-tech defense against somebody, and I believe it's a con.
	Alright, well I don't want to pit anybody against anybody, but it's an obvious question for both Dr. Greer and Richard.
	Stephen Bassett believes that we can punch our way through politically and get to disclosure.
	And yet, when I hear you two get to the bottom line, you're both saying, look, these are hidden hands.
	They're doing what they want to do.
	Only a few people know about it.
	And that doesn't exactly jive with, we're going to walk up and have a demonstration and they're going to break down and tell all.
	No, but the whole point here, Art, is that it's not an either-or question.
	I think you're going to have to prime the pump in terms of the political effort by doing some very, very wise and well-orchestrated civilian efforts.
	For example, one of the things that we're trying to do, and I want to tell you that we're starting a project this year It's called the Witness Archive Project, and it's very similar to what Steven Spielberg did when he tried to create an archive to document the testimony of people who had survived the Holocaust.
	What we're doing, and what we're looking to do in the next year, and the public out there in your listening audience can help us do this, is to create a definitive archive of the dozens of Philip Corsos that are out there that we've identified that we need to go around and put them on high quality broadcast quality videotape and preserve their testimony
	because some of them are in their seventies and eighties and they're not going to live much
	longer.
	By the way, I want to mention here that there's a producer who has a documentary that's coming
	out later this year called UFO's 50 Years of Denial and he has donated this tape, it's
	James Fox's tape, and that people who want to buy this tape, which has incredible interviews
	with Philip Corso and all kinds of images on it, can get on our website and order it
	and 100% of the proceeds are going to go into the fund to go around and create this permanent
	archive of these top secret witnesses.
	I mean, I think it's very important for us to do this and I think by doing that and beginning
	to move that out into the public, we will be again able to potentiate the political
	I don't think that the political process is going to be able to go on in a vacuum.
	You're going to have to create in the civilian sector some extremely compelling whistleblower testimony and other evidence and put it out there in a very, very well-orchestrated way in order for these people in the political structure to stick their necks out on this subject.
	So again, if people want to help us do that, they can get on our website at www.cseti.org and order this videotape, 100% of the proceeds.
	I mean, it's like making a donation to that effort.
	They're going to get a great videotape in exchange.
	Now, one of the things that I think is missing in this discussion is the understanding of the political realities that something this high risk is not going to get support from people who are politicians and military people whose mantra is CYA, cover your ass.
	And I think that unless we in the civilian sector can create enough of a focus in the media and in the public by putting extremely well vetted, documented evidence, top secret witness testimony out in an extremely compelling fashion, my sense of it is that They are simply not going to have the courage to deal with this, so it's not an either-or question.
	We need to do the political initiative, but we have to understand there's a lot of work we need to do in the civilian sector to get this information out and do it well.
	It cannot look like another brain-dead UFO genre documentary.
	It's got to look like something like a five-part, 60-minute exposé that is going to be extremely high-quality and high-production quality.
	And I think we need to get that done in 1999.
	And if we do, I predict that it will cause the unleashing of political support and even military support that we've been looking for.
	Doctor, I don't expect names, but quickly, since the last time you were on with this same offer, have you had more people coming forward?
	Yes, we have, in fact.
	And I would say that if there are military people listening who want to join with these at least 10 dozen, nearly 200, uh... military people that we've already identified that
	they should contact me through my website or by calling me and that's for people
	who are bona fide military
	witnesses to events or projects dealing with this and i want to emphasize very very briefly here how
	important that is because
	the whole is greater than the sum of the parts if you put colonel corso out there
	by himself it really will only have a limited effect
	If you put Gordon Cooper out by himself, it will only have a certain effect.
	But if you put several dozen of these types of people together, and you put them on not only in a documentary, but you have a press conference with these people, and it is in Washington, and it has the right people there, and it's been done very, very well.
	It will simply overwhelm the system.
	Now, we know that this can happen.
	I mean, I've met with the media people who got Ronald Reagan his second term, who invented the Morning in America thing, and the people at the RAND think tank, and others, and I have looked at this, and we know that this can be done.
	And I'm going down the gauntlet here.
	What I'm saying is, you know, if you have 5 or 10 million listeners, If a certain percentage of them ordered this videotape and those proceeds went to do this, we'd be able to create that media juggernaut that would overwhelm the secrecy.
	And I'm telling you, I've met with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee and people in the Pentagon and the White House who have said, you know, if you can do this, this will then create the buzz and we can step out then behind that shield.
	So I think it's in our laps.
	We, the people, are going to have to do the right thing.
	And I suggest we do it.
	All right, Dr. Greer, we're out of time.
	I hope the American public does exactly that.
	Thank you so very much, Dr. Greer.
	When we come back, Richard C. Hoagland and Stephen Bassett are joined by Peter Gersten.
	And that should be a very interesting conversation in light of recent events.
	this is coast to coast AM.
	tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going
	to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be
	singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a
	song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called,
	I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going
	to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing
	a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm going to be singing a song called,
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Do you remember that day?
	That stormy day?
	When you first came my way?
	I said no one can take your place.
	And if you get hurt by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
	When it's all right and it's coming home, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good and love can be sad, Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 8th, 1999.
	In a moment, we will be joined by Peter Gersten.
	Peter is the founder of Cause, that's Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, the publisher of the Cause Updates mail list, which you ought to be on, he'll tell you how if you're not yet, and a pioneer In the use of FOIA lawsuits to force UFO-related document disclosure, he is an attorney.
	And of course, Richard C. Hoagland, and with us all evening, Stephen Bassett, a lobbyist, a UFO lobbyist from Washington, D.C.
	As Disclosure 99 continues.
	We'll get right back to it.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	You're listening to Art Bell.
	Here we go again.
	Stephen Bassett, Richard C. Hoagland, and now Peter Gersten.
	Peter, good morning.
	Good morning.
	This is like deja vu art.
	Within just a couple of weeks ago, the three of us were on all over again.
	As a matter of fact, there has been a lot of doggy drivel under the bridge since.
	A lot.
	Indeed.
	And before we begin, Peter, Richard, I think, wants to say something about the politics of all this.
	Richard?
	You know, I wanted to kind of add to what Stephen Greer had said in the last segment.
	I, too, do not see a dichotomy between Steve Bassett's effort to appeal to the mainstream political system and to force or encourage disclosure, and Stephen Greer and my perspective, which is that the actual command of this is at a much more arcane and black ops level, and the civilian sector is kind of Left out there in the breeze, not really knowing what's going on.
	I think that there, and I've said this on your show an awful lot, Art, and it was part of the diatribe of Mr. Stevens, which was so incredibly wrong, because he somehow got people to think that I was impugning the integrity of whole agencies, like NASA, like, well, any other agency.
	And what I have said consistently is that most of the system is honest.
	There are rogue groups.
	Remember that email you read a couple of weeks ago about the rogue groups being in charge?
	Oh, yes.
	If we are dealing with rogue elements deep in the infrastructure, which have now kept this so deep and so black that the honest guys don't even know there's a game, let alone that they're not in it, then there is a very interesting pincer movement, a kind of a left-right strategy that programs like this and efforts like Steve Bassett's and Efforts like mine and Greer's and Peter's can all congregate around, which is to create a forcing function where the honest folks in the system are made aware of what they are in total ignorance of.
	And in some cases, total arrogance of.
	There's none so blind as those that think they know everything.
	And a lot of the problems we're having with the civilian side, with the honest side of NASA, The reason the Stevens of the world can make such headway for a brief period of time is because the honest folks not only think there's nothing going on, but they have been encouraged very brilliantly and delicately and stealthily by the dark guys, the hidden guys, the black ops guys, to firmly believe almost like a religion that there's nothing interesting going on.
	Alright, well I don't know what we had in the form of Mr. Stevens, but I want to talk about it a little bit.
	Mr. Robert M. Stevens.
	Sort of worked his way up the talk show circuit with shows that have copied mine or are similar to mine in form or substance.
	And he got on those shows, working his way toward this one, and then finally got on this program.
	And I, of course, arranged a debate of sorts with you, Richard C. Hoagland, and we got him on the air and we spent one, what I would call, totally insane hour.
	Incomprehensible hour, one of the strangest hours in all my years of broadcasting.
	And of course, at the end of that hour, I terminated the interview with prejudice and I said, it's over.
	I'm not going on with this.
	If I go on with this, somebody will take me away.
	And that's where it's at.
	Then the arrows began to appear in my back.
	I was being shot for censoring Mr. Stevens.
	And I guess Peter Gersten You ought to take it from there, but he came on attacking Richard Hoagland, actually praising and then calling Richard a pathological liar, and that was sort of one of the high points of the whole show.
	Peter, what happened?
	Well, I don't want to spend any time on either odd.
	I think Stevens is a non-issue.
	I think what Steve Bassett is doing is more important than what Coors is doing, what Rich and Steven Greer.
	Just to sum it up, I think that Stevens no longer has any credibility.
	I think he's still around, and we haven't heard the last of him.
	And I'll take responsibility, personal and professional.
	If I checked out his background, the first week he came on, when even he was talking about the Montana UFO, before he even got involved, we would have found out, number one, he wasn't a SEAL, never had been.
	And number two, he never called the newspaper, and it would have been a non-issue.
	In the first week, we wouldn't have given him the platform, the exposure.
	And I didn't do that.
	Nobody else did that.
	And as far as I'm concerned, we are responsible for what was created.
	Well, don't punish yourself too hard.
	At least, Peter, you were involved in the final unveiling, as it were, of the fraud.
	He was also a message.
	He was given to us for a reason.
	That reason was that he was a mirror for us.
	And he reflected back what we lacked.
	The ability to verify the information, the background.
	We were so eager to accept at least some of the people.
	I got a lot of emails saying, who is this we, Peter?
	It was you that was fooled.
	We weren't fooled.
	We knew all about Steve.
	But in any event, he was a mirror, at least for me, to see what has to be done in the future.
	Well, it is an important issue insofar as Uh, the UFO community, the science community, uh, the alternative science community, and I think I could put Richard there, uh, taking these shots, uh, constantly taking these shots, was, it's kind of like asking who killed Kennedy, was Stevens a lone gunman or
	Is he part of something bigger?
	I think that's probably an important question.
	Richard?
	My position is, and again it's based on the trend curve, Stevens came with two carrots and one very big hammer.
	The carrots were, he claimed, to be inside NASA.
	He claimed to have no connections to NORAD, to NORAD fence data, whatever that is.
	It makes you think of a prairie in Montana.
	He claimed to basically corroborate abductions, that there are black ops going on, that NASA is honest, but there might be some funny things at the edges.
	In other words, he provided all the right carrots, but then he took out after Enterprise in an absolutely vicious and underhanded and totally deceitful manner, starting with the accusation that we have faked this radar data, which of course we have not.
	It is in the Unisys computers, It's in the nav of Navy Millsite.
	It's in the CONUS data.
	It's standard archival material of systems that we couldn't possibly get access to and can be checked by anybody who wants to check.
	So then the question was, well, why is he on a tear about us and the radar and Turret Peak and EU Pegasi and what was going on in Central Arizona?
	And that indicated that it was an agency effort to disinform because we're so close on this radar to something very big.
	And in the same time frame, we got this email.
	It's actually a set of emails which you read in part on the air the other night of an expert who's been heavily involved in this cutting-edge hyperdimensional technology who says he cannot go public because his lifespan would be about 48 hours if he did.
	So you put these two things together and it tells me that Mr. Stevens was not an errant
	guy out of some cactus sagebrush in the middle of nowhere, but was almost like a Tomahawk
	missile targeted on Enterprise to disinform, to change the conversation, to correlate all
	the enemies that we've acquired over the years so that the real effort, the real disclosure,
	the real MacGuffin here, which is what is being done in our environment to us and around
	us without our permission and knowledge or accession would not be continued as part of
	the public discussion.
	I'd like to jump in here if I could.
	All right, go ahead.
	I think there's another message here that's equally important, and that is this.
	From 1947 on, there has always been a high level of noise in this field for very well-known reasons, and there always will be.
	And in fact, because we're moving closer and closer to whatever, some sort of resolution, it's going to get worse.
	It's not going to get better.
	And I think the one piece of advice I give myself every day, and I wish I could say I follow it all the time, but I do my best, and that is to underreact to whatever comes up.
	Boy, there's stuff coming up.
	Think about my reaction, cut that in half, cut it in half again, and then respond.
	You know, it would have been great if Peter could have checked out him.
	It would have been great if Peter had a couple hundred thousand dollars behind him, and a staff, and a couple of admins, and a researcher, and two extra computers.
	That would be the minimum amount of equipment that some ridiculous project that got funded through NOAA or some other government grant would expect to have at minimum.
	We have none of that.
	And so, we are given all these hamstrings, and then when we limp a little bit going down the line, people jump on us for being too slow.
	So, there are many messages here, but ultimately, Stevens has got to get behind it, and the real work has got to move ahead.
	We've done that before, and I'm sure we'll do it again.
	All right.
	Peter, I would be interested, after all the investigation you did do, same question to you.
	Was Stevens sort of a lone gunman, or part of something much bigger?
	No, I disagree with Richard.
	As far as I'm concerned now that I've spoken to him, I've seen some other information, emails from people that know him.
	And then he used to send out emails back in 1996.
	He was posting on some kind of UFO board.
	I forgot the name of it now, and I read some of those emails.
	Now, I think he's alone.
	He should have been a non-entity, non-issue, the first week he was presented to us.
	We should have checked his background.
	We would have seen then.
	It would have been over.
	I think he just had a personal vendetta against Richard.
	There are some people that do not agree with Richard's data, and I think he was one of those people and he just made, in the beginning he made me a target when I mentioned something about a lawsuit, and then he went for me and he stayed on Richard, and then basically I think it was just him and Richard.
	Except, he provided you, Peter, a very interesting backdoor URL to Mike Malin's site.
	the principal investigator on the Mars Surveyor camera who was in the process of testing the next camera system that took off from Cape Canaveral a couple three days ago headed for the South Pole of Mars and there was a systems test which is posted on our website which came from Stevens by way of Peter Gersten of the most bizarre gray like alien figure rising up in a GIF animation ...giving a Heil Hitler salute that Stevens found and provided to Peter.
	Now, how could someone do that from the outside as merely a crackpot?
	Well, Stevens definitely finds interesting websites and information.
	There's no question about it.
	That's what he does.
	I don't even think he works.
	But I can't answer that.
	My personal opinion is... I'll give you one point, though.
	He definitely brought attention to enterprise, even if he did it in a negative way.
	So, if that was his intent, you know, it doesn't matter.
	Remind me of that Mark Twain quote about being ridden out of town on a rail after being tarred and feathered.
	If it twerked for the honor of the thing, I'd just as soon pass it up.
	That's right.
	So, whatever brings attention to it.
	Hey, we have fun.
	I tell you what, there are other people that just work jobs.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	We have fun, and every week we can count on something new like this.
	Let me just make two quick comments.
	Number one, on each of the speakers that have I was going to say testified, that have talked tonight.
	Joe Firmage, if he believes in what he says, then he has enough money to put a big dent into the UFO problem.
	That's right.
	He can put together some organization with investigation, with PR, with technology, to find out what's going on.
	With a couple of private investigators, maybe?
	Excuse me?
	With a couple of private investigators, maybe?
	Whatever we would need.
	Greer, you know, needs support for his projects.
	I need support for the lawsuits.
	If we had Firmage's money, we can go, not even all of it, just 10% of it, we can go a long way.
	So if he really wants to follow up in his beliefs, then... Remember, Peter, remember one of your cause updates warned against waiting for the Savior.
	Yeah, right.
	Let's not fasten on Joe Firmage the mark of the Savior.
	To me, the democratization, organizing a lot of people to move in the direction of Disclosure, unveiling, or finding the truth is much more important than putting the hopes on any one individual, because one individual is a single point failure, and if the other side sees him as too much of a threat, maybe things will happen to that person.
	And maybe we'll have, I think, some more people joining us.
	There are a lot of people out there really close to the edge that almost have the will, the courage to move forward.
	I think Joe is going to make a statement here.
	You may have four or five more like that.
	So the funding for the Greer-type projects, the priming, one hull of this two-hulled boat may very well turn up.
	The beauty of the other hull, the political side, is it's remarkably cheap.
	Simple case in point, you've got 15 million total listeners, or 27 million total listeners on a long-term basis, Art.
	If 2 million of them were to simply go to the website, download either the email petition or the paper petition, and we got 2 million signatures, that would cost nothing.
	It would virtually cost nothing to collect those things.
	We could be putting together a news conference down here with two million signatures, and I guarantee you we would have the national press in front of us.
	That doesn't take any money, so it's kind of an interesting dynamic.
	We need both sides.
	One's really not that expensive.
	The other is expensive, but one can't go without the other.
	But I have great confidence that the money for one side is going to be there, and the interest of the public, the will of the public on the other will be there.
	With all due respect, you have an individual who came on your show and said this is a number one priority.
	And he has millions of dollars, other than Mr. Bigelow.
	I haven't seen anybody else in this field who has as much money as Joe has.
	So if he's serious about, you know, following up, then let's do something.
	Now, of course, we can, you know, wait for everybody else to contribute.
	I haven't seen it in the last year.
	And, of course, applaud and support all efforts to get through that.
	But with all due respect, my friends, the political Arena is not going to be the place.
	Well, Peter, what I know of Mr. Firmage, and obviously things don't happen without our radar, you know, taking a look at each and every development, he has put his money where his mouth is.
	He has funded a significant amount of the due diligence on these documents.
	He has done some other things that I'm aware of.
	I think Joe's primary value in the short term is his unabashed ability to be public And to stand behind what he believes in.
	As an example, I would hope that he could encourage by that forthright attitude and posture, others who have similar resources, who are kind of hanging in the closet, to get in the game, to get in the arena, as Mr. Bush used to say, and to join with the rest of us who have been trying for many years to uncover the truth.
	It needs more than one person, Peter.
	This is why, I stress over and over again, do not look at this person as, quote, the savior.
	I agree with you, but he's a star.
	I'm not saying it's only him, but he's a star.
	He's an individual.
	Steven Greer, Dr. Greer, says, and I heard last January he had 150 witnesses.
	Now he has 200.
	So far, none have come forward.
	Now these are witnesses that he wants to video.
	Video for what?
	What's the purpose of a video if the person's going to pass away?
	We have an affidavit from Corso on a lawsuit.
	If you want to take a video, it has to be in the arena of a court.
	You have to perpetuate testimony.
	You have to have both sides being able to question him.
	A video in and of itself is not going to be... What, are you going to show the video to Congress?
	Peter, I think he did plan to have affidavits in conjunction with the video interviews as well.
	I think that would be part of it.
	You have 200 witnesses?
	I just need one or two of those witnesses to go into court with, and I can get judicial immunity and governmental immunity.
	Why are we waiting with these witnesses?
	Well, I think that if you... You know, as we know, there are a number of witnesses that are already in the public arena, and there are probably a couple that are on the edge.
	If you've got a court track that you want to go, and you want the witnesses, the Court Initiative, it's been out for a year.
	Stephen won't even give me one of his witnesses.
	All right, gentlemen, hold on a second.
	Richard, we're out of time.
	Enterprise Mission has survived.
	You'll be going back to New Mexico shortly, and we'll have an update from Richard C. Hoagland.
	So, Richard, I've got to say thank you, my friend, as usual, and have a safe trip home.
	And a Happy New Year to him.
	Good night, Richard.
	Yes, indeed.
	Good night.
	All right, we'll take a break, and when we come back, we'll be joined by William J. Berjavik.
	I hope I've got that right.
	And, of course, Peter Gersten remains with Stephen Bassett.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	I'm only half of what I am. It's all clear to me now. My heart is on fire. My soul's like a wheel that's turning. My
	love is alive. My love is alive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
	Developers would like for other genre productions to invest in other genre productions rather
	than match the original artist's calls.
	There are many reasons why they should invest in other genre productions.
	There are many reasons why they should invest in other genre productions rather than match
	the original artist's calls.
	There are many reasons why they should invest in other genre productions rather than match
	the original artist's calls.
	There are many reasons why they should invest in other genre productions rather than match
	the original artist's calls.
	There are many reasons why they should invest in other genre productions rather than match
	the original artist's calls.
	the original artist's calls.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	Once again, here I am.
	You're hearing from many of the top names in ufology tonight in what we call Disclosure 99.
	And one of the names that I tossed out, James Urchavik, will be here, but he is not next.
	In fact, next and coming up in a moment is William J. Burns.
	Bill is a new publisher of UFO Magazine, co-author of The Day After Roswell with Colonel Philip Corso, which exploded onto the scene, and that's almost not a strong enough word.
	In early 1997 with allegations supporting the alien craft hypothesis and government transfer of alien technology.
	He will join Peter Gersten and Stephen Bassett and myself in a moment.
	That's what's coming up next as the old saying goes, don't touch that dial.
	Oh, one quick note.
	I'm getting multiple reports at this hour that at about 2210 hours, Alaska Standard Time, Something really large producing bright daylight type flashes was seen over the Anchorage area from Sutton, 75 miles north of Anchorage to Anchorage International Airport.
	I would appreciate any additional verification or reports we can get on that.
	Back to our show in a moment.
	You're listening to ARC Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	You're listening to Arkbell, Somewhere in Time, on Premiere Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	Alright, once again we are joined by Stephen Bassett in Washington, D.C.
	Peter Gersten, an attorney, founder of CAUSE, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, and the publisher of, of course, the CAUSE updates, the mail updates, and now William J. Burns.
	And one quick thing, Peter, I would like as many people as possible to get your newsletter.
	Would you quickly tell everybody how they do that?
	All they have to do is go to the website.
	The website is www.cause.com.
	the a u s court the a u s dot or g that's w w w dot court dot or g
	and yet they get the home page a scroll down to the place they can leave their
	email address and they are free and they come out daily
	uh... they certainly do uh... understand that the last time you are on you got
	about a couple thousand more
	to found over two thousand more and i probably got another five hundred more
	more based on tonight's show That's good.
	All right.
	And you can reach any of these websites you've heard about tonight, folks, simply by going to my website.
	We have the entire selection there with links, including the one to Peter Gersten's website.
	Now comes William J. Burns.
	Welcome, William.
	How are you, Art?
	How are you tonight?
	I'm just fine.
	I think this is a first for us, William, is it not?
	Well, I was on with Phil Corso from Roswell.
	Oh, that's right!
	That's right.
	Of course.
	So, welcome back, and I'm inclined at this point, Stephen, to let you sort of move it the way you would like it to go, and I guess start with William.
	Yeah, actually, well, obviously Bill is probably, fair to say, that he's the leading authority in the world right now on Colonel Corso.
	In the context of his work with the government, the book, his legacy and everything else, I'm not trying to slight the family in any way, but Miss Corso may be dead, but his potential impact in the field is still not trivial.
	He could still make a major dent in this whole thing at any time.
	I was hoping that he would update us.
	Kind of on what the Phil Corso legacy might be in 1999, some new developments there, and
	Peter Corsi is also familiar with this and may have a question or two.
	The interesting thing about Phil Corso is that there was so much more.
	Very few people know this, but there was so much more to the whole Phil Corso file, all
	of his material, than ever got between the covers of the first book, mainly because of
	considerations of size.
	Phil left hundreds of reports, handwritten reports that he'd copied down before he left
	the army and that were in his files.
	And, of course, there were the whole General Trudeau memoirs.
	And I've mentioned this to a lot of people.
	I talked with Stan Friedman about this earlier this year.
	These, the Trudeau memoirs, are very compelling.
	In 1997, Phil handed me his copy and said, basically, Bill, you know what to do with this.
	And we'll talk about these later, and of course Phil died the following year.
	But in those memoirs, there's a very compelling chapter on General Trudeau's years in Army R&D, what he wanted to do, why he wanted to do it, and a very intriguing description.
	Obviously, I want to set the record straight, there's no UFO mentioned in there.
	These are public documents.
	Written for the Army by General Trudeau about his career.
	Army R&D only occupies one chapter, but for a lot of people who look at what kind of conspiracies were going on with MKUltra and Army drug testing and LSD and hallucinogenics, in one of the most stunning revelations of those memoirs, I do have them and I read them, Trudeau in the most Blasé fashion.
	I mean, this would blow anybody's mind who reads this, and you will get a chance to in UFO Magazine.
	In this very blasé language, Trudeau talks about the Army testing of LSD on, not just enlisted personnel, that's horrifying enough when you realize the implications of that, but on members of the Army General Staff to test the way Non-lethal weapons might work.
	And Trudeau describes a meeting in which a general walks into some meeting completely disoriented, unable to focus, in some kind of hallucinogenic state, and there's no command and control.
	And Trudeau says, yes, we did that.
	It was effective.
	I don't know how we'd use it.
	I don't know how we'd split the LSP to the other side.
	And it was very funny seeing this general literally from World War II and the Korean War describing this.
	And then, of course, he goes on to explain what he did with Colonel Corso.
	And he refers to it in this very intriguing way, and this is all part of that Corso file, is that he says, we have this problem with technology that wasn't invented here.
	And he had a problem in getting the Congress to fund that technology.
	They wanted it to be American, if they were investing American dollars, American taxpayer dollars, and this goes back to before Corso's arrival in the Pentagon in 61, this must go back to 58 and 59 as well.
	If they're going to invest American dollars in technology for the Army, darn it, They wanted it to be American technology.
	Gee, what a refreshing attitude.
	Usually now we develop things and hand them to the Chinese.
	Well, that's what we did with... that's what we were supposed to... that was what was going to happen with Star Wars, remember?
	We were going to hand it over to the Russians.
	I recall.
	But Trudeau said his problem was that he had a bunch of stuff that wasn't developed here.
	So he came up with a plan, he says, to take what he called, and I love his code art, it's NIH.
	NIH means, Not Invented Here.
	And his code is, we're going to take all the NIHs, and we're going to take them to American industry, and we're going to give them the patents, and let them develop it.
	And then if the American, that Americanizes the NIHs, and if we can Americanize the NIHs, well, now he can get American taxpayer dollars from the Congress to fund the development.
	Brilliant idea!
	And that's the political ease describing what Corso's role was at the Pentagon.
	Peter, Bill just made an incredible allegation, that is, of the General Staff being fed LSD, not just line troops.
	Is there any way to recover information on that through FOIA lawsuits?
	Well, if it isn't classified, you probably, and it exists, and it isn't, and you know what to ask for, I guess, specifically what to ask for, and what agency to request it from, if you meet all those conditions, then I'm sure you can get the document.
	Bill, can you supply those specifics?
	I think we can.
	It's in black and white.
	Really?
	And there's no memoirs.
	Are you going to print it?
	You are going to print it soon, aren't you?
	We're going to print it.
	Part of this, we're going to print through the auspice of the magazine, so you'll see some material in the magazine.
	We're looking for a way.
	We don't have a way yet, but we're looking for a way to do another edition called Day After Roswell 2 with the raw material that didn't get into the book printed as raw material in Day After Roswell 2, the Corso files.
	This is what we want to do, and we're looking for a way to do it.
	In some cases where we have Phil Corso's own handwritten documents, We want to do these on facing pages so you can read in TypeScript in regular book format what Phil wrote in his reports and on the facing page is a photograph of the actual document.
	So we're trying to find a way to do this.
	All I can say is I probably had more air hours with Philip Corso before he passed away than anybody in any broadcast medium and I found him to be to a fault uh... believable honest and uh... just totally legit he was a man with a walking encyclopedia did that strike you with something really uh... for all the people who said how frail he looked and and and were criticizing his age the man actually was a walking encyclopedia well if i can jump in uh... his legacy isn't over uh... we're still in court the lawsuit uh... by court against the department of army based on what uh...
	Colonel Corso stated in his book and later swore to in an affidavit that was submitted to the U.S.
	Attorney's Office pursuant to a reply to a motion for summary judgment.
	That case is still pending and sometime in May of this year I am going to be in court arguing the merits of his affidavit and that the Army did not conduct a reasonable search pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act based on the fact that That Corso submitted an affidavit saying that he saw this.
	If you were to win that, what would it mean?
	Well, then we can go into the discovery procedure.
	Then we can, you know, subpoena witnesses from the Army.
	We can get together with Bill and see, did Colonel Corso mention anybody else that he worked with?
	We may be able to take their depositions.
	Sounds like Bill may have valuable information for you, Peter.
	Yeah, assuming that we can get past this oral argument on a motion for summary judgment.
	But next week, court is going back into the same courthouse in Phoenix, in the federal court, and we're now going to bring an action against the Department of Defense for information about what those triangular, V-shaped, delta-shaped craft are that have been flying in our skies.
	Maybe even, you know, as we speak, they're flying around.
	You saw one, Art.
	I did.
	Well, it's about time we found out what these objects are.
	And possibly next month, as early as next month, the court is going to go back into the same court against the CIA, the FBI, and the Department of Defense again for information on what these alien abductions are all about.
	I think it's about time that we took a look at what people are telling us are happening to them.
	What they've been telling us for the last 30 years.
	All right.
	For any of you, I want to ask this.
	All of you are bumping heads with some pretty big, dangerous agencies, if what we believe is true is true.
	Peter, how much danger is there for people in our field?
	I don't think there's any danger personally.
	I think if they come forward with the information they have, Then there's no danger.
	The more that the public knows about it, the less likely it will be that anybody's going to be injured.
	By keeping the secret, then the government can take whatever action they want and eliminate the person.
	I don't have any secrets.
	Richard doesn't have any secrets.
	However, you heard the letter that I read, and I know, or I think that I know that you know who wrote that letter, that I read in part the warning letter the other night.
	I've got a copy of it up on my website, or at least that much as I read.
	Well, my position is that in any of these statements or incidents, whether it's photographs or witness testimony, until I have the opportunity to cross-examine the person and see the circumstances Basically, you know what my first reaction is when you read the letter and I listened to it?
	What?
	I said, it's hearsay.
	Why are you reading the letter?
	Why don't you put the individual on disguised as voice with a, you know, some kind of voice modification and let him say what it is that was in the letter.
	Let him tell your audience what it is.
	Why read the letter?
	Answer is because, number one, He firmly said later in the letter, that was it.
	He's done.
	He doesn't want to die.
	Whatever time he's got left, he wants to spend it quietly with his family.
	I respect that.
	I could have brought him on that way or probably tried to talk him into it.
	But believe me, he would have been recognized.
	And so if his fear is real... But he's been identified already.
	Well, I don't want it to be all over.
	And I don't want him named here.
	No, I'm not going to name him.
	I'm just saying he was mentioned on the Internet.
	And the point is, the people that he refers to in that letter, they know who it is.
	In other words, if he gives them as much credit as he is, then they definitely know who it is.
	So you think by being low-profile, there's greater danger than if he were to just come on?
	I think so.
	I have to agree with Peter on that, because there was a lot of discussion about that with Phil Corso.
	Why didn't he feel somehow endangered by going forward with basically was A plan that, when you read the Trudeau Memoirs, he basically confirms what Courser said.
	So, I mean, it's the truth.
	Why didn't he feel, in any way, endangered by that?
	And he said the exact same thing that Peter Gersten just said, that it's being silent that puts you in greater danger, because nobody knows the story.
	The more the stuff is out there, the more people are not going to do anything about it.
	There are instances where people have come forward Whose lives have been basically trashed by the government.
	We're talking to one person trying to get his story in the magazine.
	He was an analyst, an intelligence data analyst on the NSA intercept planes that were flying over Vietnam back in the 60s.
	And he describes an incident where first of all he said that These intercept planes, which could monitor... If somebody burped in Hanoi, they picked it up on that plane.
	And he was saying that the number two priority was the launch of a Soviet ICBM.
	That was it.
	Immediately, everything shuts down, and that gets a priority line.
	But that was number two.
	So the obvious question we asked this man is, well, what was number one?
	He said a UFO intrusion.
	And I said, well, wasn't every UFO intrusion?
	Obviously, the next question.
	He said absolutely, that there were unidentified objects that would shadow the NSA intercepts, and he basically was in a position to monitor Chinese anti-missile sites in the northern part of North Vietnam, targeting these things and thinking somehow the Americans were responsible for these unidentified objects, and the Americans and the russian on him batteries of the vietnamese and
	batteries somehow would have to launch code and they would actually
	communicate the fact that no this is not american craft it was
	something else and i think we will sit down
	going over the u f all when they could do nothing about it and we're trying to
	get him to go public in the magazine i'm telling you it's a very tough thing to
	do sorry i agree with you
	absolutely agree peter it has been as always a pleasure having you on and i
	have a feeling you'll be a frequent guest thank you are again uh... folks go
	to my website to scroll down to uh... the name peter burston go over and by
	all means join up and get the cause list it's free it comes to your email everyday
	And you will be up on the latest of what's occurring.
	Peter, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Anything else?
	That's it.
	That's it.
	Watch the skies.
	Keep your eyes on the skies.
	Alright.
	That's Peter Gerson.
	When we come back, we will be joined by James Berjavik.
	And boy, I hope I've got that right.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Disclosure 99 on Coast to Coast AM.
	You'll see Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast Amphitheatre.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1994.
	Top of the morning, everybody.
	We'll be joined in a moment by James Urjavik.
	And we've got a number of questions about him and for him.
	He joins Bill Burns and he joins, of course, Stephen Bassett as we continue with what we call...
	Disclosure 99 trying to catch you up on what's happened and what's coming in the current year in the UFO community.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	www.artbell.com All right, James Erdjavik now.
	James is an environmental geologist, a specialist in mapping and computer graphics, a member of the SPSR group, the Society for Planetary SETI Research.
	He contributed papers to the Case for the Face on the structures being studied in the Cydonia region of Mars, He now joins William Burns, Bill Burns, and Stephen Bassett.
	Gentlemen, welcome back.
	Good morning Art, Steve, Bill.
	Yes, welcome.
	Art, can I launch this one?
	You sure can.
	What's neat about this segment is that there are two major sub-stories that are going on in terms of news, in terms of coverage, in terms of trying to get NBC, ABC, and all of these wonderful journalists involved.
	And right now we have two perfect representatives for both stories.
	One is the witness issue.
	Bill is involved with a lot of people, one of the most famous, who are, of course, at the top of the food chain of the congressional witnesses, who are government employees, testify in front of Congress, tell what they know.
	On the other story is the situation with respect to evidence being brought back through the space program that may possibly implicate artificial structures, extraterrestrial intelligence.
	These are the two principal stories, and each of these men are right in the middle of both of them.
	Either one of these stories, if they move along the tracks that they seem to be going, could virtually blow the cover up, and we would move to another era.
	So it's neat to have them together.
	Jim, have you by chance had a chance to listen to the program so far?
	Yeah, I've pretty much listened to most of it.
	How do you feel, what do you think is going to be the The future of the Mars Global Surveyor and the photos and the artificial structures over the next six months.
	Are we about to see some developments there?
	Is that going to be a factor this year?
	I don't know.
	It's difficult to say because NASA holds the strings on the puppet and NASA only lets out things that they want to let out.
	It took a bit for us to get the images of Cydonia.
	I know Richard Hoagland worked a lot on it.
	He had people sending in our group, SPSR.
	We're pressing NASA on it.
	They got the images, and then we get three of them, and then they're off to the main mission.
	So I think it will kind of be serendipitous as to what we get next in the Cydonia region from the Global Surveyor.
	And so it's really difficult to say as to how much more we're going to go.
	Okay, James, this is Art Bell.
	Let me ask you this.
	With respect to the photographs we did get, the first one Was terribly disappointing.
	Bad quality.
	I called it, to me it looked like a cat box more than a face.
	You know, just lumps and bumps.
	Right.
	And that was the one widely, you know, sent around the world.
	And unfortunately, the one that was commented upon and kind of was case closed, it's not a face.
	But later enhancements began to change that story.
	The general public never got it.
	Is that your position?
	Yeah, that is our position.
	My position as well as the group's position.
	We really got burned on that first image.
	It's difficult as a geologist.
	I looked at the thing initially and was very disappointed.
	Oh my God, what is this?
	Then I went back and started to look at it again and rotated the image and changed colors and this and that.
	I started to see things that most folks aren't going to see just because I'm trained to see those kinds of things.
	And I realize that, hey, there's a lot more relief to this thing.
	There's structure in this thing.
	It's, you know, there's much more to it than we initially get.
	But, unfortunately, we get these, you know, that same image.
	It's in the paper.
	It's a pile of rocks.
	It's nothing.
	On we go.
	And, you know, quotes by Albee, for example, well, it's like any mesa you'd see out west.
	Well, he's wrong.
	It's not like any mesa you'd see out west.
	I've never seen a mesa like that out west.
	I've seen all kinds of mesas from aerial photos.
	And you know on the ground and it is not like anything you feel like that but unfortunately that thing sticks in the media's mind you know sticks in the people's mind and so it's very difficult then to turn that back because they want a quick answer and unfortunately we're not going to get a quick answer at least you know using science and the scientific method we shouldn't get a quick answer on this.
	Well, it might be noted here that there are structures under the water near the island of Okinawa, and we have sent divers down, and we still are arguing about what they are, and they're here on Earth where we can look at them, much less on Mars.
	Yes, I've heard of those.
	What is the SPSR, Society for Planetary SETI Research, what is it, James?
	What is it?
	It's a group of scientists.
	Most of us communicate mainly by email.
	We started with just a few of us back in 1993, 1994, and the group has grown over time.
	We've got specialists in geology, astronomy, engineering, philosophy, religion, and architects.
	It's a whole interdisciplinary group.
	That really is a great resource.
	We're setting up something like possible artificial structures on Mars, and it's just kind of moved with time.
	We've added more people.
	We've added some more recently who are interested in the area, and it's just something that continues to grow right now.
	But again, it's difficult.
	Most of these people have other jobs.
	They don't necessarily do this as a full-time thing.
	I myself do not.
	So it's kind of slow work because of that, but I think we've made a lot of progress in getting the book, The Case for the Face.
	You know, out to the public, you know, before they took the images, I think that was a big plus.
	Is it not the case, James, that this group is virtually entirely made up of mainstream scientists, engineers and professionals, correct?
	Yes, it is.
	Many are, you know, from institutions, universities and that, you know, working with industry and with the government.
	So yeah, it is a very mainstream group.
	Some of them have worked for NASA in the past, correct?
	That is correct.
	And did I understand you correctly when you earlier said that the current consensus Of this fairly large group of individuals, is that the structures in the Cydonia region of Mars are in fact artificial?
	Not that that is the consensus, but that it certainly has not been proven the other way.
	And we're continuing.
	There are some, I mean, there's always disagreement within groups.
	There are some members of the group who feel very strongly that they are artificial, it's undeniable.
	There's other members of the group who are on the line saying, boy, I don't know, it really looks like it, but no, where's that next piece of evidence?
	And there are a few who really were disappointed by the images and don't feel that we really have something there.
	So it is a broad mix, but the platform of the group in general, I'm just speaking for myself, is that we still have some work to do on this.
	I mean, not only the Cydonia, the image of a face, but it turns out with the MGS images we did get, We've found quite a few other anomalous features that, frankly, at least from the geologic aspect, can't be explained by NASA scientists.
	They've either ignored them or brushed over them, and there's a lot more work to be done.
	This brings up an interesting thing you have in common with Bill Burns, and that is this, that here is a group of scientists that have moved very strong opinions.
	We have artificial structures on Mars.
	It's an unbelievable thing.
	And believe me, the press have been approached on this by me and others, but certainly by me, and I almost think most of the press I've talked to.
	They are extremely reluctant to directly address this additional information.
	And Bill Burns knows exactly what I'm talking about, because Phil Corso dropped one of the biggest bombshells ever into this mix with a book the day after Roswell.
	And the press in Washington did such a remarkable job of completely staying away from Phil Corso.
	That when he died, a man with 20 decorations and served on Senators' staff and MacArthur's staff and testified on a hill countless times, the Washington Post, and I've done a thorough search, did not even run an obituary.
	Phil, can you see what I'm saying?
	Well, I'll tell you, this evening gets more astounding for this reason.
	When Phil was testifying before Robert Dornan's House Committee, On POWs that were not returned from the Korean War, Time and Newsweek Magazine did profiles of the man.
	When this whole flap happened with Senator Strom Thurmond, and here's a guy who was born 30, 40 years after the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, who's swearing in Chief Justice Rehnquist at the impeachment hearings.
	I mean, talk about history!
	When this man claimed he didn't understand what book he was writing a forward to, that got the day after Roswell on page one of the New York Times.
	And we hit page one twice.
	Page one, because Strom Thurmond denied that he knew what he was writing about when he wrote the forward for the book.
	So, this is fascinating stuff.
	That's how you get into the news media.
	But, I can tell you this from personal experience.
	The news media shy away, especially the television news media, shy away from anything that can compromise the corporations that own the TV news.
	I mean, when you realize that CBS is owned by Westinghouse, a defense contractor, NBC is owned by General Electric, a defense contractor, ABC is owned by the Disney Company, who really deals with a lot of the regulatory commissions in Washington, and is an international corporation, and has dealings with China and other countries.
	It is no wonder that these reporters and reporters for newspapers are going to rely on access journalism.
	That is to say, if they report the wrong news, they get denied access.
	By the very organizations that can help give them a good byline.
	So they're going to play ball.
	That's why these stories don't appear.
	You've just given our listeners an incredibly good reason to get to the Paradigm Clock website and start signing up for that congressional hearing petition.
	Get their name on record.
	James, there was a lot of tension and a lot of tough times there between the SDSR group and NASA.
	JPL Laboratories.
	There was a lot of odd behavior, difficult communications.
	Where are things now?
	Obviously, they're kind of off the hook for a while.
	Is there still some tension between you all and NASA and JPL?
	Are they communicating with you?
	What's happening?
	There's not very much communication between them and us.
	For the most part, we have to go and we have to basically grab onto them with hooks and pull the information from them.
	They don't really Give us anything that would assist us with what we want.
	I mean, you know, it really came to forcing the issue of getting these images.
	The way it is, I believe, anyway, is that NASA has its own plans and NASA does what it wants.
	And NASA, you know, is looking for, and this kind of relates to the newspaper articles, what is NASA looking for in the way of life in the solar system?
	They're looking for microbes.
	They're looking for algae.
	They're looking for lichens.
	They don't even consider that there's anything more.
	They wouldn't consider that perhaps there's some kind of reptile on possible, or any higher life at all.
	And the other aspect of what NASA is looking at is the SETI program, which is the radio waves being sent to distant stars.
	That's going to do if we reach a society that's at the same level of technology that we are.
	I'll tell you what it is, Jim.
	I'll tell you what it is, Jim.
	NASA is also a political organization.
	For everything else it is, it's political.
	And the stories you hear about the political decisions made inside NASA to do what NASA does are really astounding.
	One of the engineering people was talking about why Challenger 7 was lost, or was launched, when NASA knew darn well that the chances of an accident were very high.
	And basically, one of the reasons was that somebody walked into somebody else's and said, I don't give a damn.
	This thing has to go up.
	We have a teacher up there.
	We have students watching this thing.
	Schools are watching this thing.
	I don't care about the weather.
	The weather is okay.
	And look what happened to it.
	So NASA responds to a great deal of political pressure inside Washington.
	And the one thing NASA is not going to do is blow a secret by saying, oh, we are really searching for intelligent life in the universe.
	Because quite frankly, nobody wants to know we're searching for intelligent life in the universe.
	It's too frightening.
	Yeah, I agree.
	Interesting.
	There are, you know, I've had information from my sources that obviously NASA is a DOD product, Prodigy.
	And it has to adhere to certain demands from there.
	And one of those demands is that you're not going to rock the boat on this issue.
	But there is a huge built-in paradox here, and that is simply this.
	I mean, common sense tells you that if artificial structures in Cydonia confirm, the American public will write NASA a blank check.
	Literally.
	Spend whatever you need.
	Do whatever you want.
	The agency will ascend into heaven.
	Yeah, and I think in part we've helped them.
	All of us who have looked at Cydonia have helped NASA out.
	I think there's no question about that.
	But can you still explain the paradox?
	This enormous reluctance, when in fact the agency would be showered with money.
	What is the source of this ambivalence and reluctance?
	Well, I'll tell you partly what it is.
	General Trudeau mentioned this in his memoirs.
	Because remember, General Trudeau had this incredible plan.
	Project Horizon to get an army base, not a navy, not an air force base, but an army base.
	A whole new command on the moon.
	And it was a military base.
	And if you read the day after Roswell in the appendix, you'll see parts of this planner actually printed in the appendix.
	One of the astounding things in Trudeau's memoirs is his fury, his absolute fury that his plan was curtailed, was short-circuited by NASA.
	And the Army and the Pentagon made a dedicated effort to get back from the space program via NASA what it felt it gave up in the way of military missions to the moon and around the planet.
	And so, there has been a concerted effort through the years to devote more and more of the Pentagon's black budget to NASA, in return for which NASA would run the kind of missions the military wants.
	And that's why nobody wants to rock the boat.
	They're getting too much money.
	Follow the money, and you'll see what NASA is doing.
	Interesting.
	James, if major media were to turn up at SDSR's door, if they were to show up and say, The impeachment is over.
	We're kind of looking for something to do here.
	I wanted to really bring you all out and talk about what you really found and look at some of these rectified images and look at some of this actual analysis that actually takes some time to understand as opposed to a soundbite.
	Do you think SPSR would respond?
	Or would they have to hold back because of potential published papers or what other academic concerns?
	I think we'd be able to respond in part.
	Some of the published papers might be areas that we wouldn't touch, but I think in general you'd find a very welcome response from SPSR to get that kind of attention from the media.
	I myself have plenty of things that I could say to the media about things that people just don't hear.
	And if they don't hear it, they don't know about it.
	You know, they don't have any interest in it.
	Well, James, it sounds like you have a lot you could contribute to Bill, who publishes.
	Anyway, Bill, we're going to be leaving you at this point.
	I would like to give you a brief opportunity to plug UFO Magazine.
	If people would like to get it, how do they do it?
	Dial the phone, order the magazine, tell me you heard from Mark Bell, we'll send you a free issue.
	Really?
	Really?
	A free issue?
	A free issue along with your subscription.
	The next issue coming up are the finalists for the photo contest.
	The UFO photo contest that's been running for the past few months.
	Bill, I've got to go.
	Thank you for being here.
	Thank you so much.
	And thank you for having me.
	In the next half hour, Jim Morris will join us.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	And my foolish love is gay I understand the cold
	You find that love is not a game I'm turning every time
	You do some secret face this time I'm watching this whole movie
	And you turn around and say Stay my brother away
	Stay my brother away Stay my brother away
	Watching as you break Still into the phantom
	Never had the chance Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 8th, 1999.
	In a moment, we're joined by Jim Mars.
	Jim is the author of Alien Agenda, investigating the alien presence among us.
	Which examined the entire field and the alleged cover-up by the U.S.
	government.
	Prior to that, he penned Crossfire, a best-seller on the Kennedy assassination.
	So, Jim Mars will join James Berjavik and, of course, Stephen Bassett in Washington, D.C.
	all of that coming up in a moment.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	On the night of January 8th, 1999, Art Bell was in the middle of a concert in New York City.
	Oh Oh
	All right, back now to my guest, Stephen Bassett in Washington, James Urchavik.
	who is involved with the Society for Planetary Study Research and the Case for the Face, and now Jim Mars, author of Alien Agenda.
	Gentlemen, welcome back to the program.
	Steven, I think what would be fun this final hour is to just hear you guys kibitz.
	Okay.
	I think that there's a wonderful irony and metaphor here, and that is that We have a gentleman on, James Urjavik, who's involved in some research involving Mars, which if it goes where I think it's going to go, will virtually explode on the scene and change his life and a lot of other people's lives.
	And we've just been joined by a gentleman named after the planet.
	Who's been studying near Javik.
	What now?
	Who's been studying near Javik.
	Exactly.
	I thought that's what you were going to say.
	Jim and I are going to talk about a number of things a little later on toward the end of the program, but I wanted to To give James a chance to say a little bit more about SPSR's mission and the book and educate people a little bit who may not know that a lot of mainstream scientists, a lot of mainstream engineers have been studying the face intently and have by no means put this issue aside as explained.
	Okay, well let me plug the book, The Case for the Face.
	Probably the easiest way to get it is to go to Amazon.com.
	My website, you can access through Art Bell's website.
	It's probably the simplest way to do that at this point.
	There are a couple of papers on my website now.
	They're geology papers, of course, but they talk about water on Mars and possible ice on Mars.
	Found possibly way before the polar lander that just went off.
	This is a paper by Harry Moore.
	It appears to be ice that is found in an impact crater.
	Go ahead and read Harry's analysis of that and my analysis of the face itself, which shows evidence of water erosion, possible shoreline features.
	One of the things about Mars, and life in general, and what NASA is looking for, is they're looking for water.
	We talk about it in Europa.
	We talk about it in Mars.
	We talk about it on Earth.
	Water is an essential ingredient.
	The thing that kind of bothers me about Mars is they always seem to downplay it, no matter what.
	We have these vast areas of stream channels.
	I mean, you know, almost certainly water had rushed through these.
	But, you know, well, the answer from NASA is, well, it was a very short period of time.
	There were tremendous floods.
	There wasn't any long-standing water.
	We have a possible area on Mars which they were calling a Pacific basin, possibly an ocean as large as the Pacific.
	Hold on a second.
	Hold on, one at a time.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Jim, was that you?
	Yeah, this is Jim.
	I wanted to ask James, isn't it true that I understand that they have said that they have found traces of water on the moon?
	Yes, they have at the poles.
	Not.
	They're not certain it's water.
	It's got a hydrogen signature.
	It could be several things, but water is one of them.
	Well, that really intrigued me, because from what I know, the moon has never had any volcanic activity, or apparently has never been warm, so how do they get water?
	The standard line is that it comes from comets.
	That's the standard line.
	That's the standard line for how the oceans were formed on the Earth, is that it was cometary water that was input to the Earth.
	That's right.
	I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the standard line on that.
	But they would admit that there could be water on the Moon.
	Why are they so hesitant to talk about water on Mars?
	I don't know.
	I don't understand.
	To talk about Mars as if, well, it may have been Earth-like a long, long, long time ago, and that didn't last very long, and, well, life could have happened, and I don't understand, because Mars is very much Earth-like in a lot of ways.
	There are a lot of things that are very much Earth-like, and I really cannot figure out why.
	People come up with some very interesting papers, mainstream stuff about possible shorelines, possible lakes, possible oceans, and they seem to get cut down all the time by a certain group of authors who really I don't want to see that, and I don't understand why.
	Back to that same paradox, you've got increasing evidence that this could have been a planet with a substantial amount of water, you've got these structures that are incredibly anomalistic, which if you put the two together, it doesn't take a high school science student to respond to that, and yet when you raise the issue of an intelligent life, NASA goes running in the opposite direction, and that is a very odd thing that this agency and Dan Golden is going to have to eventually answer to the public about.
	But nevertheless, the science goes on, and the water is, I think, a significant new issue.
	Is there anything else?
	By the way, James, is it possible for you to mention some of the other people in the SBSR group, give the listeners a little sense of the breadth of it?
	Yes, we could.
	Mark Carlotto is the main investigator.
	Horace Crater, Dr. Horace Crater.
	Professor Stan McDaniel.
	Lance Fleming, Harry Moores, a geologist.
	Lance Fleming's an engineer.
	I think he worked at NASA at some point.
	We've got James Strange, who's in religious studies.
	We've got Errol Torin is in the group.
	I'm just looking through John Brandenburg, of course, and Vince DiPietro.
	Yes, it's a powerful group.
	I was involved with Discovering the Face initially with Greg Molinar.
	It's a very broad set of disciplines.
	You've got a question about something, you can find someone in the group who may be able
	to answer it for you.
	Yes, it's a powerful group.
	If anything breaks on this, in other words, if suddenly things come around and this artificiality
	gets confirmed...
	SPSR is in a superb position.
	I would expect that you all are going to virtually be on a worldwide tour.
	You're going to need press agents just to keep track of the people that absolutely have to have your attention.
	And it's well-learned.
	There's been tremendous research here that's been done.
	And again, does anybody out there have to be working on the staff of Ted Koppel or 2020 or Dateline?
	I don't want to rouse you out of your sleep or anything.
	Possibly one of the biggest science stories in the history of the human race is staring you right in the face.
	You just might want to make a call.
	Look into it.
	Yeah, that's certainly my aspect in looking at this initially.
	I mean, I was skeptical about the whole face issue.
	And I had a colleague, you know, get me in tune to Hoagland stuff in the McDaniels report.
	And I looked at things over and said, hey, there's something to this.
	There's something on here.
	And I don't understand.
	I wrote NASA about it.
	Never got a response.
	I mean, I came at it just from straight science.
	I decided that if I'm not going to get any response from NASA, all I'm asking is, as
	a geologist, can you say something from your end?
	Why don't you believe this stuff?
	I decided that if I can't get anything like that, I'll do it myself and work on things.
	It kind of grew from that point.
	I understand a couple of members of SPSR went up and gave a poster paper, one of the side
	deals at the American Geophysical Union Conference up in Boston.
	That's correct.
	And I believe that it, you know, started to attract some interest, and quite a few people came over and grabbed that paper.
	Is that true?
	Yes, it did attract quite a bit of interest.
	Also, it did attract negative interest as well.
	But I mean, you know, you're going to get that kind of stuff with something that is, quote, discontroversial.
	But it did attract quite a few questioners.
	But are you all getting the invitations from some of the other bodies that are in pertinent sciences that Appropriately, you should be getting or you're all sort of being spurned.
	Oh, we're spurned.
	Don't mention this stuff.
	I mean, you know, AGU is one thing to do some of this, but if you were to try to get things I would imagine, science, nature, yeah, we'd be spurned on that stuff.
	They're very selective about what kinds of things that they want to see.
	And I find that to be not really science, because science should be everything.
	And if you've got some credible evidence and some evidence and some line of reasoning that goes behind it, then why can't it be peer-reviewed and, you know, possibly accepted in a journal like that?
	$64,000 question, and the American people, you know, need to remember that they're paying every single penny of every single dime spent by their space agency And not to mention huge numbers of government programs that are supporting space from the other military agencies.
	It's a vast sum of money.
	And when extraordinary things like this come along, these agencies look at you like you're nuts.
	Well, one of the places that we're putting, to use a Saganism, billions and billions of dollars is the new space station.
	Any comments?
	That's a good question.
	James, is the space station money well spent?
	I don't know.
	I'm not really up to much on it.
	I don't know.
	It is a lot of money.
	I'm not sure what the goal is there.
	Space station for what?
	Are we then going to plan to move to the moon from there?
	Are we going to plan a mission to Mars?
	Is it something we don't know?
	We're just going to float some people around for a while.
	I don't know.
	What kind of studies are they doing?
	Why make all these studies in a gravity-free condition if you don't plan on doing something with that?
	Here's the $64,000 question.
	I'll move back in time.
	Have we received our value from the space shuttle?
	And in answering that question, you really answer whether or not a space station that's going to cost a whole lot more is worth doing.
	Good question.
	Well, let me throw two cents worth in here.
	During the Cold War, I questioned down here in Texas where there's a lot of military bases and there was a lot of big defense contractors like General Dynamics at the time, LinkedIn, Cobalt, and I know at the time of the TFX scandal, which turned out to be the F-111, Uh, which was imposed on both the Air Force and the Navy, and both of them, both those services, said they really didn't want it, but they got it anyway.
	And it had a very checkered career and was quite controversial.
	And I questioned people down here in those industries about, you know, why are we continuing to throw this money into this?
	And in that particular instance, their rationale was that these were people who were holdovers from World War II, and they said, look, we went through the experience of being We'll never let that happen again.
	We have to keep these industries intact and operating, whether we need them or not, so that if we need them, we'll have them.
	And I think that we have an extension of that thinking with some of this space program today.
	They want to keep these contractors in business, they want to keep the money flowing, they want to keep the jobs on hand, and yet I think everybody in this discussion would agree that You know, if we would throw more money at new and innovative technology, we may not need a space station.
	I'd like to also add something here, and I'm not trying to put James or David on the spot by any means.
	The fact is, is that this group of scientists and people and thinkers are just about, I mean, it's about as pure science as it gets.
	I mean, they are They clearly are excited.
	There's an enormous amount of potential implications here.
	They're just incredibly excited.
	They've been putting a lot of time in this.
	Years go by because of the nature of where this planet is and how long it takes to get a shot up there and the fact that we keep losing spacecraft in critical moments.
	So they have to go through all these years.
	They're not making any money from this.
	So it's really pure science and they're trying to interact with our space agency.
	A couple of weeks ago, it was about five weeks ago, John McLaughlin, one of the big political pundits here in Washington, has a program in addition to McLaughlin Group called One on One.
	And this Sunday, a particular Sunday, he had Dan Golden on as his guest, along with another gentleman, I think, representing Nassau, another agency.
	And in the middle of this program, John McLaughlin, and I've been trying to get to him, I've talked at length with his aide, but I can't get beyond his aide, trying to get to John.
	He turned to Dan Golden out of the blue, he asked him a very interesting question.
	He basically said, and I think I've got it right, one word may be off.
	He said, Dan, is NASA still involved in black budget programs?
	And Dan took a pause.
	And Dan's a pretty sharp guy, very bright guy, and he comes back with an answer that was rather interesting about this and about that and about... And so, he really didn't ask the question, and then McLaughlin followed up and said, well then, essentially, you have a firewall.
	I think he actually used the word firewall between you and DOD.
	And then Dan Golden said something very interesting.
	He said, and I'm paraphrasing again, The relationship between NASA and the Department of Defense was excellent, and everything was going along quite well there.
	There's a great deal of concern that NASA, on the one hand, is involved in defense-related projects, black budget projects, stuff that's not being oversighted by the proper authorities.
	And on the other hand, you've got some wonderful scientists trying to do some absolute pure science to excite the world, and they're treated like You know, Cinderella?
	You know, the orphan sister or the stepsister?
	This is a troubling thing.
	I'm not in the middle of it, so in a sense, I could be wrong.
	But from just a citizen standpoint, someone who's actually paying the bills with my meager taxes, there's something very deeply troubling about that.
	And if American people would get behind some of these gentlemen in this group a little bit more, they might get things moving in a little different direction.
	Yeah, there's no question we need that.
	I mean, that's a big part of it.
	You know, we're a bigger group than we were, but we're still really small compared to the government, compared to NASA, compared to JPL.
	And it's very difficult to persuade them to do anything.
	You don't have any of your own launch vehicles?
	James, James, this is Art.
	I'm curious.
	You have this collection of professionals.
	How far are they willing to stick their necks out?
	I mean, they communicate privately and say a lot of things, but when it comes to going public, how many of them really are willing to step forward?
	You mean in going public, you know, making claims that we have found artificials?
	Yes.
	Or just, okay.
	Yes.
	It depends if we feel the evidence is there.
	I'm willing to step out and go public and say, I sure think we still have a strong case for it and there
	are some very anomalous objects that cannot be explained geologically.
	I'm not going to say they are for certain yet because as a geologist it's tough to do
	those kinds of things.
	I'm willing to.
	I know there are a number of others who are willing to do those kinds of things and go
	public with it.
	I've had a number of interviews and talked with papers and things like that, as many
	of the other group members have.
	But then the interest all just went flat after that cat box image.
	James, this is Jim, let me ask you this.
	How much cloud, how much control does the pure scientist within NASA have over the program?
	I would suspect not much.
	I would suspect the same.
	Your question was, why is all this continuing?
	Let me offer this.
	Steve, let's say that you wanted to start a business, so you went down and made a business
	loan and you borrowed a lot of money and you started a business.
	It started to build and you borrowed more money and then you borrowed some more money
	to try to keep it going and then it really wasn't getting off the ground, so you borrowed
	some more money.
	In the end, you never really turned a profit.
	It didn't really quite work like you wanted it to.
	Who in that scenario made money?
	Thanks for watching!
	Bye.
	The guy that loans you all that money, right?
	If you pay it back.
	But you were, because you began paying on it right away, and you're paying on it as you go.
	Of course, if you go broke, you default.
	But let's say that you're an honorable person and you continue to pay your debts, and even And my point being is that the people, we have to look beyond the scientists and beyond the administrators.
	We have to look to the people who really are controlling and running this country.
	And I think there's a very good reason that this country is now in what, eight trillion dollars in debt?
	You know, because there are people who make money off of debt.
	Well, that's how the whole nation runs.
	That's right.
	Jim, no question about that.
	James Rudavik, it has been certainly a pleasure having you on, and would you like to plug the case for The Face or anything else as we leave this segment?
	Okay, yeah, case for The Face one more time.
	Available at Amazon.com.
	It's worth the read.
	I mean, and there are other papers on various other websites that have papers that can add to what we've already got in the case for the faith.
	I mean, the research continues.
	All right, James.
	Well, it's been a pleasure.
	Thank you so very much.
	And again, everybody, links are there for everybody, including James Erdjavik.
	James, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Good night, and we'll be right back with Jim Mars and, of course, Stephen Bassett.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast program.
	Thank you for watching.
	Send your camel to bed.
	Shadows paintin' our faces.
	Traces of romance in our heads.
	It's a beautiful day, and heaven's holding our hand.
	Moon, shining just for us, let's slip off to a sad new reason.
	soon.
	Kick up a little dirt.
	Come on, can't you see it's all red?
	We've wandered out of the way.
	Come on, till the evening ends.
	Till the evening ends.
	You don't have to There's no need for speed.
	I'll be your belly dancer, prancer, and you can be my sheep.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 8th, 1999.
	Disclosure 99 continues with Jim Mars, And Steven Bassett in Washington D.C., Jim's in Texas.
	Quick announcement, I want to congratulate KSFO in the nation's fourth largest market beginning Monday.
	They'll be carrying, actually check this out folks, coast to coast beginning at 8 o'clock at night.
	And they're able to do that because we now pre-feed.
	And, uh, what does that mean?
	It means we take, for example, the show that's on right now, and Monday, that'll begin feeding at 6 p.m.
	Pacific Time, or 9 o'clock back East.
	And KSFO is one of now about a hundred stations that have begun to take the pre-feeds of Coast.
	Apparently it's, uh, working very well.
	So, if you are a radio station and you would like to begin to pre-feed Coast, You can do that, considering a lot of your listeners miss the last part of the program because they fall asleep.
	You know what happens.
	So, if you are a listener, and you would enjoy Hearing Coast at an earlier hour, well, all you've got to do is call your affiliate and tell them you would enjoy that.
	And generally, radio stations are pretty smart about that kind of stuff, and they listen to those people who In a moment, we'll get back to our guests.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th, 1999.
	them know Coast is available now daily at an earlier hour.
	In a moment we'll get back to our guests.
	Now we take you back to the night of January 8th 1999 on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	All right back now to Stephen Bassett in Washington DC and Jim Mars down in Texas.
	And, gentlemen, welcome back.
	We're in the final segment.
	Jim, it's been a while since you wrote Alien Agenda, and I wonder if you have any new observations since you've written the book, feedback you've had on the book, or thoughts, things you've thought more about, or second thoughts, or whatever.
	Well, one of the things that I could What I kick myself for has to do with part of what y'all have been talking about tonight, and that of course is the late Colonel Corso.
	I had amongst all my notes Colonel Corso's name, address, phone number in Florida, and I kept saying, I need to contact this guy.
	But in the hush and rush, in fact I tried to and was unable to, and now I see why, because he was getting his book ready to go.
	I kind of wish I had that to add in, but I think that the same thing that impressed me after I researched the UFO phenomenon, among other things, Alien Agenda is not solely relegated to the UFOs.
	It also covers the crop circles and the abductions and the cattle mutilations and even the chupacabras and everything that has to do with the whole thing.
	The thing that impressed me, and I heard this a little bit from some of your other guests, such as James Erjavik and others, is that it's the sum total of the issue.
	Art, I think you understand that well, because you're on there every night talking about this stuff.
	After a while, doesn't it just begin to get a little overwhelming?
	We're not talking about a handful of people that are talking about far out.
	Theories that don't seem to have any substance.
	We're talking about documents, films, photographs, ground effects, thousands of sightings, history, things that go back all the way through.
	I mean, after a while you just start thinking, well, you know, somebody that doesn't see what's going on just must have their eyes shut, you know?
	Jim, it kind of goes in cycles and at times it is indeed overwhelming.
	At other times you can sort of lay back and deal.
	With one coherent issue at a time, I like those times.
	We've had kind of an overwhelming period recently.
	Right.
	And there has certainly been a spate of, I don't know what you want to call it, hoaxes.
	Hoaxes, you call it hoaxes.
	Just hoaxes and garbage and stuff.
	I will throw one interesting thing in here though, having to do with the MJ-12 papers that you all talked about earlier, particularly with Joe Firmage and And I was one of these, by the way, who more than a year ago, I've been in touch with Dr. Wood and Ryan Wood now for several years.
	So you also signed the... Oh yeah, I signed the non-disclosure.
	And the thing is, I did that consciously, and I did that in an honest manner because they are still, have been trying to get these things, number one, verified, and then number two, out to the public.
	And I didn't want to do anything that would interfere with that process.
	One of the documents that they have offered up, and I'm not positive this because I haven't seen all this on the website, but I know it's in the accumulated papers that they put out, is signed by John F. Kennedy, and it's dated November the 12th, 1963.
	Well, of course, that's getting into my ballywick a little bit.
	So I took a particular interest in that.
	It's crossed out up at the top in kind of a little T-shaped thing, which to me looks exactly like the letterhead that says, The White House, Washington, that is on so many other documents.
	But in this November the 12th, 1963, it says, Memorandum for the Director of Central Intelligence Agency.
	Subject, Classification Review of All UFO Intelligence Files Affecting National Security.
	As I've discussed with you previously, I've initiated and have instructed James Webb, who by the way was the head of NASA at that time, to develop a program with the Soviet Union in joint space and lunar exploration.
	It would be very helpful if you would have the high-threat cases reviewed with the purpose of identification of bona fide, as opposed to classified CIA and USAF sources is important that we make a clear distinction
	between the known and the unknown
	in the event the soviets try to mistake our extended cooperation
	as a cover for intelligence gathering of their defense and space program
	and send the john at kennedy right now of course this is one of the documents that uh...
	the woods have brought forward
	and of course there are those who will be saying all of the pony document
	barbara you know and there'll be controversy and i don't claim to be a
	huge document expert i'm holding my hand here
	a document that came from the kennedy library
	And it is an absolutely 100% legitimate document.
	It's been unclassified.
	It is National Security Action Memorandum No.
	271.
	And it's a memorandum for the Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
	And the subject is, it's a two page, no it may be, no it's a two page memorandum to James Webb and NASA.
	And the subject is cooperation with the USSR on outer space matters.
	And I won't bother reading the whole thing, because it's pretty bland, but it just says that we are... He said, I'd like to assume personally the initiative and central responsibility with the government for the development of a program of substantive cooperation with the Soviet Union in the field of outer space.
	And it's dated November the 12th, 1963.
	So obviously that was on his agenda that day.
	So to me, since it's signed by the same person, and since it's dated the same date, and since it's talking about the joint space exploration with the Soviets, the one that's ordering the head of the CIA to turn over all the UFO files to the White House, to me, takes on some added significance and some added credibility.
	You've raised an interesting issue there, Jim.
	Kennedy is one of the presidents that, generally, I think the researchers in the field think was probably a briefed president.
	He was a war hero.
	His brother was in the government, a very forceful guy.
	They had ways of getting information.
	There was a sense that he was a briefed president.
	The implication of those memos is that At one level, you have this Cold War going on between the Soviet Union and the United States.
	At the other level, you have kind of an understanding that there's another reality above this Cold War, the UFO reality, and they both know about it.
	Yeah, that they both need to work in concert for.
	Isn't that exactly what Corso was saying?
	Pretty much.
	And the implication, therefore, is that the whole time they were going under this Cold War, these governments both knew That their little game, the entire game that they were playing, was really subject to a much larger picture.
	And it may be that larger picture that ensured that the Cold War did, in fact, have to come to a reasonably short end.
	Because, you know, it's kind of ridiculous to, you know, actually take your own ideology and, quote, world domination interest to the point of nuclear war, when you actually are aware of the fact that we may be immersed in a galaxy of intelligent species.
	So, memos like that, you read them and you go, oh, does this support the UFO issue or
	not?
	And it's easy to overlook the implications of one simple memo to the larger history and
	see the implications of all of the study that isn't happening because, again, we're not
	allowed to know the essential truth of the matter.
	Well, and the thing is, I feel like Peter Gerson, kind of like Deja Vu.
	You know, we were doing this about this time last year, and of course that was, which I think, I considered almost historic.
	a program where we brought up what Webb Hubble had said about the fact that he couldn't get to UFO information on behalf of the President of the United States as an Associate Attorney General of the Justice Department.
	And then we had, of course, Dr. Stephen Greer again on that night, who then revealed about his briefings to Albert Woolsey of the CIA.
	And that they couldn't get to the things.
	And so, of course, we're dealing with some very, very serious issues here, far beyond sexual escapades.
	We're dealing with who actually runs this country.
	And, in fact, it's something that we should be extremely concerned about.
	And there does, obviously, if the President of the United States and the head of the CIA cannot get to certain types of information, then we have to ask ourselves, who can?
	And who is running the show?
	Yes, that and a lot of other questions.
	You raise another good point.
	That program, January 5th, I think, in my opinion, I'm biased, of course, but I think that program is one of the most important radio television broadcasts since World War II.
	I think it ranks up with the Edward R. Murrow program on McCarthy, when he confronted the Senator, when nobody else would.
	The only difference is Well, you know, and that program didn't get the recognition right away that it eventually got.
	This program may fall in that category, but there's an interesting thing about that story I guess I've never really told anybody, and that is that Nightline, Ted Koppel, really wanted to do that show, but unfortunately he was on vacation that weekend.
	ABC, NBC, CBS, Nightly News would love to have done that program, but they couldn't fit it into that half-hour format they have.
	And Nightline, and 20-20, and 60 Minutes, and the other programs, they would have liked to have done it, but their program schedule was completely booked with doing that car fraud scam stuff, you know, car mechanic scams.
	And so we ended up doing an art show.
	Now, of course, I'm being sarcastic.
	But the point is, the reason we did it on Art Barrel Show is because he is running one of the few national programs in the country that provides a forum for advanced ideas, advanced thinking, controversial issues with a minimum amount of interruption and censorship.
	It's audience beware, take the ideas, do with them as you will.
	I think the listeners, this was already brought up a little bit earlier, but let me put it in a more human form.
	This is a little story that dates back a few years.
	with their as opposed to nightlife and for this of course he is extremely
	extensively criticized which would be which amuses me to know when i have to
	write i don't know
	you know my car i think that i like uh... the listeners
	this is already brought up a little bit earlier but let me put it in a more
	human for missus old story that dates back a few years
	there was a fellow named todd putnam who was editor of a newsletter called the national boycott
	news and he he kept up with the boycott against big corporations
	uh... at you know and he was contacted by the uh...
	today program of nbc and they were going to do a new special about boycott and
	how people will try to use this to affect corporate behavior
	and so the staffer from nbc that called him call him up said uh...
	what is the biggest boycott going on in the country today and uh... he said well i i i really believe the biggest boycott
	going on right now it is against uh... general electric
	and they said all well we can do that
	Well, actually, we could do that, but we won't.
	And, of course, the reason for that was that in 1986 NBC Network was bought up by General Electric, which has already been brought out.
	And as long as you have these major networks and these major mass media, the so-called establishment media, Time, Newsweek, U.S.
	News & World Report, New York Times, Washington Post, and these TV networks, as long as they're under the control of people that are owned by these defense contractors, let's face it, and have extensive ties into the banking interest, into the military interest, you know, it's going to be an uphill fight.
	And guys, I guess that brings up one of my biggest, the thing that gripes me, the thing that just gets me livid when I think about it.
	I've heard a lot of people die.
	Peter Gersten complained about this, and James, and we're all in this situation.
	I laughingly tell people this is really true.
	If I had one helper, I'd be dangerous.
	But I'm one guy trying to do stuff.
	Steve, you understand this, and Art, actually, you do too.
	Yeah, even though you've begun to assemble some staff, there's support there.
	But we are up against a really monolithic entity with deep pockets.
	The people who are trying to spread disinformation and chaos and all this stuff.
	These people have unlimited resources to draw on.
	Well, let me tell you both what's going to happen this year.
	It's our money.
	I know.
	They have deep pockets.
	I'm trying to find out what the truth is, and they're trying to block it with my money.
	I know.
	Well look, when you discuss the really major media, the Time magazines and the rest of them, I have now, or this program has become big enough that they cannot ignore it.
	So they do write about it, but when they write about it, they write about it dissing it They write about it laughing at it, they write about it in a lot of ways, but they never discuss, never discuss, the really serious issues and questions that are posed on this program.
	Well Art, they've done this for 35 years in the Kennedy assassination.
	They'll tell you it's controversial, and they'll tell you that there's conspiracy theories, and that there's all this stuff, but they'll never tell you what the facts are.
	And that is what we have to figure out how to change.
	When we break that barrier, we're in.
	Well, you're doing it, my friend.
	You're doing it right now by sharing information with all of your listeners.
	And as all of your listening audiences, they begin to wise up, and as they begin to gain more and more knowledge, then their understanding will increase.
	And pretty soon, they'll get fed up with that establishment media.
	And I'll tell you what'll happen, actually.
	It's kind of like the old joke about, hey, wait for me, I'm your leader.
	You know, the media will come around if they realize that people are deserting the ship.
	There is a serious side to this, though, and it's one thing to talk about the fact that much of the major media is owned by significant corporations, some of which are tied to government funding, but when you bring it home, And this is some stuff that I have been talking to people all over this town about.
	I've talked to a number of journalists.
	I've brought it to the attention of Mary McGorry.
	I've brought it to the attention of the Vice President of National Public Radio and others.
	And that is that there's been several instances in the last two years in which journalists working for, good journalists, expected journalists with careers working for the media, have written stories about the government which were uncomfortable.
	And guess what happened?
	Suddenly, they're out of jobs.
	The classic example is Gary Webb, the very fine investigative reporter at the San Jose Mercury News.
	That's right.
	He was run out of his job.
	They virtually kind of drove him nuts until he finally signed a resignation.
	By then, he had an ulcer and his marriage was a mess.
	And then you had Jack Smith and April Oliver.
	These are not hacked journalists that just got out of school.
	These people were seriously denied much report on the sarin gas issue.
	Maybe there were some problems with that report.
	We're going to investigate it some more.
	But you don't just have a couple of quick consensus articles by a couple of other media, and then can these people publicly... That whole story was buried by the New York Times, period.
	The problem is, of course, that when you do that, even though people like you, Steve, raise hell about it, It has an immediate chilling effect across the board.
	I talked to the journalist and I said, why don't you all speak up for these people?
	And they kind of look kind of sheepish.
	Well, yeah, it's kind of like, hey, I've got a family.
	That's right.
	See, this is nothing new.
	I've dealt with this my entire journalism career, even back into the 60s.
	The people I knew and the people I've known throughout my lifetime career in journalism, who I considered the very, very best of the investigative reporters, didn't last long.
	They were all out pretty quick.
	Well, this is something that we're...
	People who are hung in there, and those are the people who I'd say, why aren't we doing
	a story on this?
	Why don't you proceed into this area?
	And you know what I got more often than not?
	I'm just riding it out to get my...
	Get my...
	I'm sorry.
	Well, look, even 16 minutes, which used to be very hard-hitting, is now kind of cream
	puffy.
	Right.
	So things have changed.
	Gentlemen, I'm afraid we are out of time.
	Jim, you've got Alien Agenda.
	It's a good overall look at the whole alien thing.
	If people want to get hold of your book, Amazon.com, I'm sure, and everywhere else.
	You bet.
	All right, folks, we're out of time.
	Thank you, Jim and Stephen Bassett.
	Thank you so much for all you have organized, and good night.
	Pleasure.
	Good night, all.

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