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Dec. 11, 1998 - Art Bell

02:07:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Peter Davenport - Dr. Glenn Kimball - Hidden History of Jesus

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	He's authored two books, Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus and Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion.
	And I think he has a PhD.
	Glenn, welcome to the program.
	It's great to be with you, Art.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	Indeed, do you have a PhD?
	Yes, in Southern Illinois University.
	Fighting Salukis.
	And then you're Dr. Kimball.
	Glenn's great.
	Yeah, I know, but you're Dr. Kimball.
	Anybody who went through getting a PhD deserves being called what they are, doctor.
	So, doctor, You've been working for 25 years on this subject?
	Yes, in fact, it's a little bit longer than that, actually.
	If you include my late teens and my early twenties, but 25 years specifically on the subject, yes.
	Okay.
	It's going to be an interesting program, and I would like to say a couple of words before we get started.
	Somebody sent me a fax, Glenn, And I've received many faxes like this, but I knew the program with you was coming up.
	And the fax said, Art, it virtually demanded that I come on the air and categorically state whether or not I believe in God, the God in heaven, the God of the Bible.
	Do I believe Jesus Christ was real on earth and the son of the God of the Bible?
	Do I believe in the Holy Trinity?
	And on and on and on.
	Do I categorically, yes or no, it demanded, believe in these things?
	And you know, I've received that kind of thing from people before, but somehow, with this program coming and what I was thinking, it hit me right between the eyes, and I thought, you know, if they slam me up against the wall, Doctor, and they made me answer that question, I would have to say, No.
	I don't.
	I don't absolutely know it to be true.
	And this will surprise a lot of my audience.
	There are things that fly in our skies, Doctor, that are UFOs.
	Now, do I know... I know that part for sure, because I've seen one.
	But do I know they contain little green guys, gray guys, or whatever, or military guys, and they're our own, correct?
	Could I state categorically that we're being visited from elsewhere?
	No.
	And I wouldn't.
	So I'm even skeptical about that.
	Frankly, I'm skeptical about anything that I can't wrap my hand around.
	And maybe before the night is over, you could help me wrap my hand around this.
	We'll see.
	Well, I share your opinion entirely.
	You do?
	I can categorically state that there are some things that I can say for positive, and one of the things that I can say for absolutely certain is that there is an abundance of ancient manuscripts which speak about Jesus, His apostles, their disciples, the travels of Jesus.
	I am tracking right now over 5 million manuscripts that deal with this topic.
	and I can say with absolute certainty that they exist.
	Now what people do with that information is I send them back to their clergy and hope that their clergy
	can answer their doctrinal questions.
	I am a historian and I will attempt to answer their historical questions.
	Well you know, I've got in front of me, this has been revealed,
	we broke it on my show in the last few days, something called
	the majestic documents.
	And there are over 200 documents in here saying that extraterrestrials landed on Earth in 1947.
	It describes the craft and the beings that died and it describes everything.
	So I've got this manuscript in my hand.
	Does that mean I believe that it happened?
	I could categorically say that something crashed in Roswell in 1945?
	No, sir.
	No, sir.
	Did you see the movie Contact?
	I did indeed.
	You remember when Jodie Foster was sitting there and they trump-carded her at the end and they simply said, do you believe in the God of Heaven?
	As they were trying to decide who would represent the human race to Uh, whoever was out there and she just gulped a couple of times and basically had to say no.
	well you notice at the end of the movie she made an interesting comment
	uh... that she was up approach once again and asked if her experience
	during that particular uh...
	moment time when the vehicle drop through the the waiting uh... machinery
	whatever was and she said yes i can justify absolutely that was certain
	that i had this uh... thirty minute experience
	and and i can tell the people in the world that i have lived in south america
	i've lived in mexico and lived in europe and i can tell them with a bun and security
	uh... and uh... an assurance that there are ancient manuscripts would speak
	about jesus around the world that have been hit the former of you
	and i have copies of the money I'm tracking them.
	I've read the majority of them.
	There's no way in the world a person in their lifetime can read five million manuscripts.
	And that is the challenge for the rest of my life, is to read as many of them as I can.
	However, they have a harmonic theme.
	They speak of common things.
	And that's what we want to talk about tonight, is that there are some things that have been kept hidden from us for centuries, That have been hidden in plain sight for everybody that is listening to my voice.
	They've been hidden in plain sight and many of them that can be found in your local library if you know where to look for them.
	Would you categorically state there was a man named Jesus who walked upon the earth?
	Well, I'm going to answer two ways.
	Number one, my personal belief, yes.
	Now I'm going to speak as a historian.
	There is such an abundance of manuscripts that phenomenologically and rhetorically speaking, there is an extremely high probability that not only he existed, but that he did many things that we are still unaware of.
	It invites the first question, the obvious question, hidden stories of the childhood of Jesus.
	Hidden stories?
	Well, I use the word hidden because three times in Jesus's life he said that in the end, before I come again, that which was hidden will ultimately be made manifest.
	And I use the word hidden because of the reference of Jesus three times in his life.
	Are you the one that Art is in the process of revealing that which has been hidden.
	In other words, are you, Doctor, going to be in part, perhaps, responsible for the return?
	Geez, Art, that's never been asked of me!
	I don't envision myself as being clergy.
	On the other hand, you just said that these hidden things would be revealed prior to the return, and that is what you're revealing here, right?
	Well, without doubt, I'd hope I'd play a small part, but I must also assure people that there is nothing that we will talk about tonight that is an original comment of mine at all.
	Historians have said everything I'm about to say privately, and not only a few, but thousands of historians have said these things behind closed doors.
	I had a gentleman call me tonight, for example, He had run a radio station out of the Vatican some years ago, and he knew the Borgo Suspiria II No.
	5 as I did, and I'm amazed, Charles.
	You're out there listening, I'm sure.
	But he found the same thing I did.
	That people speak outside of the public about things that they don't speak in public about for various and sundry political reasons, religious reasons, and out of sheer fear of criticism.
	I'm sure that's precisely correct.
	Let's get into the meat of this a little bit.
	Let's talk a little bit about what most people don't know about the childhood of Jesus Christ.
	Very good.
	I mean we've got, everybody I think has sort of the, I don't know, the general cooked normal version of what we got in Sunday school of The birth of Christ.
	Back now to Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	And so, Doctor, let's do it.
	What is it that we don't know about the childhood, the birth and the childhood of Jesus Christ?
	Well, to be candid with you, we can get fragmented on every sentence I'm about to say and go off in a different direction, and we're going to try and focus just on the birth of Jesus alone for a moment.
	Sure.
	Jesus had older brothers and sisters.
	He had two older brothers and two older sisters, and for the first time in history, though I've been sending information to the learning channels of the television for years, they've come out and admitted on the documentary on the Lifetime Station, the great Catholic historians and Episcopal historians have admitted for the first time that Joseph The Virgin Mary was not, in fact, Joseph's first wife.
	He had been married and been a widower by the time he married the Virgin Mary.
	What?
	That is correct.
	I'm not the first to say it.
	I'm not the 10,000th person to say it.
	But in fact, Joseph had been married and been a widower by the time of the birth of Jesus, and that he had two older brothers and two older sisters.
	So in order to set the scene for the birth of Jesus, we have to understand that when Joseph and Mary were headed for Bethlehem, that they were in route with James, Jesus's older stepbrother, in tow with them in this journey.
	You're the first person I've ever heard say this.
	I understand how shocking that might be.
	I understand how shocking every single sentence, I might say, might be.
	Gee, I thought I was going to shock you, and I opened up with, sorry, I can't definitively say I believe any of this.
	You know, if I were sitting in Jody Foster's chair, I wouldn't have been going on the ride.
	Believe me, because had I been honest, I would have said no, and you've outdone me already, and we've just begun.
	Well, hang on to your seat.
	We're in for a night full of surprises.
	Okay.
	We must understand that there's a distance from Nazareth, or there was no such city as Nazareth at the time of Jesus' birth, but the precursor of Nazareth, the distance between Nazareth and Bethlehem is about 84 miles.
	And we must understand they also didn't have Cadillacs or carriages, and so the finest mode of transportation at that particular moment in time was, in fact, the finest donkey you could buy, money could buy, and Joseph Joseph and Mary were heirs to the throne of David and were very wealthy, which is another common misconception.
	The word carpenter translated in the Bible comes from the Greek word tek, or in other words, it filters down through our word architect.
	Joseph was in fact an architect, a contractor, and a surveyor, and a very, very, very wealthy man himself.
	And so Joseph and Mary had the finest donkey in the country and were traveling to Bethlehem While Mary was ready to deliver the baby Jesus.
	One might be curious to inquire how they got through the Eye of the Needle.
	Into Jerusalem?
	No, no, no.
	You mentioned they were very wealthy, I think.
	That's correct.
	The Eye of the Needle was a portal into the city of Jerusalem.
	If you're referring to the rich people getting into the Kingdom of Heaven as a camel through the eye of the needle, we must understand that the philanthropy of Jesus' family was renowned in those days, and there are many ancient texts which talk about the fact that they gave a third of their income every year to the poor and the needy.
	And were, in fact, popular in their community amongst the poor, because they gave so much of their money to the poor and the needy.
	It was a family tradition.
	These people were the heirs to the throne of David, which was, by the way, not in power at the time of the birth of Jesus.
	It was in power in the 6th century B.C., and Jesus' grandmother, who wasn't... Boy, I'm going to get you fragmented really badly here with this one.
	Jesus' grandmother was born in England and reverse immigrated before the birth of the Virgin Mary back to Palestine to marry a man named Joachim.
	So Jesus' grandfather, Joachim, was also very wealthy.
	And that tradition of philanthropy from the wealth of the family of Jesus extended for centuries.
	And we could talk about that ad infinitum.
	We can talk about financial records that survive to our day.
	And we can talk about the wealth of the family and what happened to it and the fighting and
	infighting before and after the death of Jesus over that particular subject for forever.
	Except we want to focus back on the birth of Jesus for a moment, if we can, and suggest
	to the audience that Jesus' two of his older brothers were already out of the house and
	on their own.
	His two older...
	One of his older brothers, I should say, and two of his older sisters had already left
	the house and had their own families, but they did have James, the older brother of
	Jesus who eventually became the Apostle James, with them en route to Bethlehem the night
	of the birth of Jesus.
	And we get this story, by the way, from records written by James himself.
	Jesus' two brothers, James and Thomas, were assigned by Jesus to record the family histories, These histories have been with us since the first century A.D., and in fact are included in a volume called The Only Rule of Our Faith, which was the Bible before the Bible, and was a popular document which was eventually excluded from the canon in the third century A.D.
	for political reasons, and we could talk all night about that as well.
	But the actual birth events of the story of Jesus are more authentic, in my opinion, coming from family members than they are from historians or people who were not there.
	And so the quotes about what happened the night of the birth of the Savior come from the writings of James himself.
	And so he wrote about what happened that night and was old enough to be aware of what was happening the night of the birth of his younger brother Jesus.
	A great deal of what you're saying, people would say, conflicts very directly with what is in the Bible.
	Actually, it doesn't conflict at all if you allow the Bible, the pre-agency, to be not a history book, but rather a collection of doctrinal statements and the ministry of Jesus.
	But if we want to get down to the who are the players and uh... what is the actual history
	and i don't think it conflicts at all with that uh...
	certainly james was an authentic character who played a great role in the bible
	uh... the fact that jesus came from a very wealthy family or at least came from the throne of david is well known in
	the bible We forget that when the Magi came to visit the baby Jesus, a month or so after his birth, that they brought with them a king's ransom of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
	And I emphasize the word gold.
	This was a king's ransom.
	And yet we still perpetuate the myth that the family of Jesus was poor.
	No question about it.
	And yet that gift of gold, frankincense, and myrrh would have kept a hundred families wealthy at that time.
	Certainly this myth that Jesus was a poor carpenter's son is conflicted in the Bible itself, and is in fact a myth.
	The family of Jesus came from royal blood.
	They had preserved their family fortunes, and in fact they had augmented that family fortune, and at the time of Jesus were very, very wealthy.
	And that story continues.
	We could go through the night and talk about the wealth of Jesus and the financial information about that.
	Well, we have only just begun and you have totally blown me away.
	The family of Jesus was rich.
	Without any doubt.
	Without any doubt.
	Doctor, I really have to ask you how you know this?
	In other words, what specific documents can you refer to Well, we actually have some financial correspondence from Jesus himself that has survived into our day.
	We must understand that at the end of my book, the first book, which is The Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus, Jesus speaks of his own father's death.
	We're referring specifically to Joseph who was married to the Virgin Mary.
	That occurred when Jesus was about 14 or 15 years old.
	He writes about it in his own hand, and that document is in the back of my book, at the very end of the book, and I end the book there with the death of his father.
	but under jewish law uh...
	a woman a single woman with a family the next of kin must under under the law
	takeover the protectorship of the family now you say who was that person who took over the protectorship
	of the family from the time jesus was fifteen years old
	and i'm telling you that there is an extreme abundance of information
	that that man was in fact a man named joseph of arimathea who was the third wealthiest man on the planet at that
	moment in history and so the reason why we do not hear more about jesus'
	youth or his young manhood
	was the fact that he was taken under the protectorship of joseph of arimathea
	who had the great tin and lead mines in england He was named Noblus Decurio by Tiberius Caesar himself, and so Tiberius Caesar and Joseph of Arimathea knew each other intimately well.
	Cicero said it was harder to be a Roman senator than to be Noblus Decurio, and Noblus Decurio was the title that Caesar himself had given to Jesus' acting father from the age of 15 until his final ministry.
	And so Jesus had access to the wealth untold by the world.
	And he sailed on the boats of his great-uncle and perpetuated much of the merchant traffic of his great-uncle, and we have financial records that survive to this day to that effect.
	Are we going to get back to the birth of Jesus?
	Oh, boy.
	All right.
	Fine.
	Back to the birth of Jesus.
	You were on the program while I wasn't here.
	I assume that you went over roughly the material I'm hearing now, or did you not?
	I did.
	I did a cursory survey of that material as well, and that's why the program was so popular.
	What kind of reaction?
	Popular, yes.
	Many heard it, many reacted.
	How did you break... If you broke down the response that you got to the program, which I assume was big, because of course this program has a very large audience, What was the reaction like?
	Well, I expected to be tarred and feathered, to be very honest with you.
	I've really been doing this research for myself and for my own private information.
	I never intended to write a book.
	If I had intended to write a book, I would have written it 20 years ago.
	However, I've been compelled by my lectures that I've given around the country on this particular topic.
	We introduced the topic very slowly.
	This is a humongous topic, Art.
	There is so much to talk about that it would take us many, many, many days to talk about it.
	I could speak without drinking water for six days and not get to the end of the topic.
	But the fact of the matter is that we have risen Jesus to the level of myth.
	Unfortunately, the scholars of the world have referred to Jesus as a myth because of the records that exist do not correspond with our common colloquial traditions in the streets.
	And I'm trying to say that the common colloquial traditions in the streets probably are a myth, but that the history about Jesus, which vindicates that He was in fact who He said He was, is not a myth.
	And I think it's a wonderful, delightful Christmas story to talk about the fact that Jesus came from a wealthy family, He did not wear the robes, the priestly royal robes of the House of David, with the many colors in them.
	He wore the simple home-woven robes that were a political statement of his alliance with the Essenes and the Gnostics, from which we derive the great Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nachamari discoveries, which have been so popular in the newsprint.
	He made a political statement with the way he dressed that was not reflective of the actual Financial status of Jesus, if you refer in the Bible, you notice that Peter came to him one time and referred to the fact that Jesus was paying a tax called the stranger tax.
	Now those who are historians know that the stranger tax was much like an import-export tax, which was levied against those who were doing foreign commerce.
	And that's referred directly in the Bible itself, that in fact Jesus was being sought after to pay taxes.
	First of all, if he had been a poor person, he would have never been involved in the stranger tax at all.
	And certainly the evidence that he was paying the stranger tax is evidence of the great wealth of his family and the foreign commerce.
	It was happening between himself and his great uncle Joseph of Arimathea, and in fact the entire Roman Empire, and in fact the entire world itself.
	Was Jesus Christ the Son of God, Big G?
	If you're asking my personal opinion, yes.
	I'm going to give you a short answer, and then I'm going to give you a historical answer.
	Phenomenologically speaking and rhetorically speaking, if we look at the documents in a macrocosmic perspective, I would suggest to you that the macroscopic view also vindicates that Jesus was, in fact, of unnatural, extraordinary origin, and that He, in fact, was, in fact, the Son of God, Big G.
	I would like to examine macroscopically with you some of the things that would back that up.
	Would you be interested in pursuing that?
	Absolutely delighted with you, Art.
	No problem.
	I really think, because at the beginning of the program you heard me say it, if somebody were to break my arm and say, and answer yes or no, Can you absolutely say you embrace and understand and perfectly believe to be Jesus Christ, the Son of God, with a big G?
	I'd have to say no, and I would love, I would love, Doctor, to have information so solid, so incontrovertible, that I would have to answer yes.
	Nothing would comfort me more, and frankly, I envy those Those people out there, and they are legion, who can answer in the immediate affirmative.
	So when we get back, let's do that.
	Let's take a look at why you believe what you believe.
	So my guest is Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	Here he is once again, and as promised as we left the last hour, Let us begin a macro-examination of what facts exist.
	Facts, that's a very interesting word.
	Not mythology, but facts exist proving that Jesus Christ was in fact the son of God, big G, God.
	Doctor?
	Yes, you know, the journey from, the uphill journey from a position of I don't know, which is Technically speaking, an agnostic position to a firm, convincing faith in the God Big G is a journey of many thousand steps, and though my extended family are all listening here, they can all tell you that I've been through that path in my life where I didn't believe in God, and where I thought that this was all mythology.
	And that the teachings of my childhood were, in fact, myths and stories of my parents.
	And I have done a complete double-take over a many-step path that has taken many, many years in my life, so I don't want to try and suggest that in a few minutes we can take that journey together, macrocosmically speaking.
	However, let's begin with the macrocosmic nature of the birth of Jesus, which might Let's discuss a macrocosmic perspective in and of itself.
	Take me as far down the yellow brick road as you can.
	Very good.
	First of all, the brothers of Jesus wrote more books, were more prolific in their authorship than all the rest of the apostles combined.
	Reflected in the canon of the Bible for political reasons, we'll discuss a little bit later on.
	But the brothers of Jesus play prominently in the scenario of the birth of Jesus as well.
	As we journeyed along the path from Nazareth or pre-Nazareth to Bethlehem, Mary was riding the finest donkey that money could buy, and she went into labor.
	This was an 84-mile journey.
	And three miles outside of Bethlehem, or what was the very tiny hamlet of Bethlehem at that moment, which now is incorporated inside the city confines of Bethlehem, she went into labor.
	She told Joseph that, hey, look, the time has come.
	And he took her off the donkey, put her securely in the cave where you have visited, where
	he was actually born, left James, Jesus' older brother, there and said, watch over her while
	I run to the city and get a midwife to help us with the delivery.
	We must remember that the state of art of medicine in those days, many women died during
	childbirth.
	And so he was very concerned that he'd get the finest care possible.
	Most of the common people didn't have the luxury or could afford a midwife.
	However, Joseph could afford anything he wanted in those days.
	He made this quick journey as quickly as he could, went to Bethlehem, and in fact found a midwife who was willing to return with him and deliver the baby Jesus.
	This woman had a withered hand.
	But she came well-recommended by the individuals that he spoke to.
	They both returned back to the site of the birth of the Virgin Mary, the birth of Jesus with the Virgin Mary, and she in fact delivered the baby Jesus.
	And the story of that birth, which ultimately cured the withered hand of Salome, who was the midwife, is in my book, The Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus, and on my website, ancientmanuscripts.com, you can find References to it there as well.
	We are linked to all of that, by the way, folks.
	Yes, you are linked.
	You can go right to our bill and find me very quickly there.
	But it was a wonderful story, and the Salome plays a critical role in history, and yet she is only mentioned in the background at the crucifixion site and throughout Jesus' life.
	The Salome actually became a servant for the family, the Holy Family, Joseph and Mary, And she followed him all the rest of their lives, as a
	matter of fact, after Joseph's death, and even after the crucifixion when Mary had to get
	out of town in the Exodus of the Faithful in 36 AD when she was expelled from
	Palestine with Joseph of Arimathea, the Bethany sisters, Martha, Mary Magdalene, Lazarus, and a
	number of people on a boat with no sails and oars.
	That's a long story.
	We'll get back to it.
	But the midwife followed the Virgin Mary back to the homeland of her own mother, which was
	England, and she lived and died and spent the rest of her life there in England.
	So the story of the midwife is one of the most wonderful Christmas tales anyone could
	ever want.
	want.
	How anyone could think that that conflicts with anyone's tradition is beyond me, because
	How anyone could think that that conflicts with anyone's tradition is beyond me, because
	it is a wonderful Christmas tale that should be told around every Christmas season, and
	it is a wonderful Christmas tale that should be told around every Christmas season, and
	yet is absent completely from our biblical record.
	yet is absent completely from our biblical record.
	Why?
	Why?
	The reasons why it is absent are many and varied, but let me try and give you a couple
	The reasons why it is absent are many and varied, but let me try and give you a couple
	of concrete reasons.
	of concrete reasons.
	Number one, the writings of the brothers of Jesus were one of the most wonderful Christmas tales anyone could ever
	Number one, the writings of the brothers of Jesus were politically difficult to accept
	from after the crucifixion of Jesus, because everybody wanted to follow the words of their
	own favorite apostle who were in ministries sailing around the Mediterranean into India
	and going farther east than people can even imagine.
	In other words, Peter and Paul did their ministries predominantly in Rome, and so the Romans basically
	orientation picks up on Peter being the rock and Paul being a significant character in
	the Bible.
	If you go into France, Charlemagne preserved in the 7th century AD the canonical writings
	and the ancient manuscript writings of Joseph of Arimathea and Mary Magdalene.
	In fact, they derived their authority and their power and their connection with Jesus
	through Joseph of Arimathea and Mary Magdalene.
	So Joseph of Arimathea becomes a saint in that tradition, and Mary Magdalene becomes
	the patron saint of France.
	We look at Thomas going after the crucifixion into India.
	We look at John the Apostle, who was always the maverick and also the best friend of Jesus,
	performing his post-crucifixion ministry on his way east all the way into the orient,
	where we see dozens and dozens of little churches of John pop up all the way across Asia, where
	he left the ancient records of the writings of the 24 prophets of the Old Testament and
	of the family of Jesus, etc., all the way across Asia.
	And we can get into that story at some other time.
	But getting back to the birth of Jesus, we must remember that the Star of Bethlehem is critical here, and this is where we get into a macrocosmic perspective for the first time.
	The Star of Bethlehem has been well known.
	We are the only generation, perhaps in history, that didn't know what the Star of Bethlehem is, or are confused over it.
	Kepler knew it in the 1600s.
	In 1603, he saw the Star of Bethlehem occur again, and let me remind the people what the Star of Bethlehem really was.
	The Star of Bethlehem was the merger of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces.
	That occurred four times in the year of the birth of Jesus.
	And the astronomers around the world knew of That the king of Israel, this great Messiah figure, was to be born, and where he was going to be born, he was going to be born in the city of Bethlehem.
	The astronomy community at that moment in time was very well connected with each other.
	They were all predisposed that the time had come for the birth of this great king, and they were all on alert for the star of Bethlehem to occur.
	And when it occurred four times in the year 7 BC, which by the way is unprecedented in history, it never occurred four times in any other year, though Kepler saw that merger occur one time in the year 1603, they all were on alert on February 9th when it happened the first time, and came and were present when it happened the second time on April 12th.
	Doctor, I'm not an astronomer, but has it in modern days occurred?
	Not to my knowledge.
	Not to my knowledge.
	Does it occur on a regular astronomical basis of any sort?
	There's not a formula for it at this moment.
	It's the physics of the stars alone and the movements of the planets.
	And I do not know of an up and impending merger of Jupiter and Saturn at this moment.
	At that time, Doctor, were astronomy and astrology as one?
	Astronomy and astrology were one for one principal reason.
	Astronomy and astrology were ways of preserving two critical issues.
	First of all, it was a way of dating.
	They did not have the calendar that we have today, which comes to us from the 533 A.D.
	and the Scythian monk, and we need to speak about that on your program at some point in time, because we do not live technically in the year 1998.
	We need to talk about that at some point in time.
	But in other words, the stars were a calendar for people, and so when people were trying to give dates to other people, they used the stars as the fulcrum for the calendar system at that moment in history.
	And second of all, they used the stars as a navigational tool.
	One of the common things that people misconstrue in history is that the old saying at the time of Jesus was that you could travel 40 times farther in a day than you on a boat than you could on a camel, but nonetheless they
	not only used the stars to navigate the oceans, but they used the stars to navigate on the land as
	well.
	And so the astronomy community, whenever they wanted to predict an occurrence or an event
	to occur, they would use reference to a star or an event in the heavens, rather than using
	a calendar date.
	Using a calendar date is a very modern creation of our own that stems from 533 AD, but in
	those days it was a very pragmatic science, astronomy and astrology, because it helped
	them and assisted them in the dating process.
	Well, Doctor, I was recently in Rome at the Vatican, walked into the Sistine Chapel.
	The first thing you see walking through the front door of the Sistine Chapel is a gigantic globe encased in glass.
	With the signs of the Zodiac on it, you could have knocked me over with a feather.
	It's sitting there.
	Anybody who doubts it, go to Rome, take a look.
	Without any doubt, and the signs of the Zodiac were intimately connected with the calendar system, as well as their spiritual religious beliefs, as well as their navigational tools.
	And so, the astronomy and astrology were the science of that day, and it's no mystery why the Egyptian pyramids, in fact the temples that were built under Herod and Solomon, etc., etc., were aligned with the stars because it was a way of not only preserving history, but it was associated with the actual dating process, when things were built.
	And you've had many people on your program discussing the age of the pyramids and how the stars have altered in the sky and how you can Talk about the origins of the pyramids, etc., from the differences of the alignment in the stars themselves.
	Correct.
	Alright, well, there is so much in the Bible that is so specific about what Jesus did during his lifetime.
	Is it all incontrovertible fact in your mind, Doctor, the miracles, the parting of the sea, all the rest of it?
	Or is some of it myth?
	Well, you're asking my opinion, once again, and the answer is yes.
	Okay?
	The answer is yes.
	Yes, it is.
	It is incontrovertible in my mind, and let me suggest why.
	We speak, once again, of a macrocosmic perspective.
	Yes.
	The Bible only records the miracles toward the end of His ministry.
	Many unthinking and naive scholars have suggested that those are the only miracles that Jesus performed.
	However, from the time He was born, from the day He was born, beginning with the healing of the midwife's hand, all the way through His life, the same type of events followed Him throughout His entire lifetime.
	And are located in ancient manuscripts all the way around where Jesus performed his mortal ministries from the boats of his great-uncle Joseph of Arimathea.
	Why would the world's great religions fail to document with available ancient documents that you're speaking of now, things that would verify and in fact promote belief?
	Why?
	Well, it seems to be a much simpler answer in my head, and maybe I can convey that to you.
	Everyone wanted to own the saga of Jesus, and to admit that the fact that he performed miracles in someone else's pasture means that they might own a part of the saga of Jesus as well.
	Politics.
	Very much so.
	And so we are missing large portions of the life of Jesus for a very political reason, in that most of the world did not want to admit that in fact Jesus had connections with other societies and cultures during his lifetime, while he was alive, before the crucifixion.
	The story, for example, of when he was a child and was taken in exile into Egypt when Herod threatened the life of the The two-year-old babies and under.
	The entire story of the events in Egypt are missing and yet they are in my book.
	They are open in plain sight, available for anybody who wants to look for them.
	They are in your public library of what happened to Jesus in Egypt and all the miracles that happened to him at that particular moment in time.
	One of the spectacular ones is that by the time of the birth of Jesus, Cleopatra was already dead, and the Egyptian Empire had been fragmented by the various princes of Pharaoh.
	But nonetheless, one of the principal figures in the Pharaoh saga had a son who was leprous.
	And the infant Jesus was involved in the curing of the leprosy of the son of Pharaoh.
	And in fact, while Jesus was in Egypt, The Holy Family spent the majority of their time housed in the Pharaoh's houses, treated like royalty, celebrated with many celebrations, and once again given a king's ransom in gold for what he had done for one of the princes of Pharaoh.
	Remarkable.
	Alright, we have reached the bottom of the hour, so we're going to pause here.
	What a remarkable saga, Doctor.
	Stay right where you are.
	I guess it's just about impossible to ask somebody like Dr. Glenn Kimball, who has spent 25 years studying the life, the birth of life, the death of Jesus, and the resurrection, no doubt, how he can categorically state that this man was indeed the Son of God, Big G, But we're going to do the best we can.
	Let us continue, Doctor.
	And you can go any direction you want.
	There are several directions I would like to go in, and obviously we're not going to cover in this show nearly enough, so it's going to require you to come back again.
	We'd be delighted to do so.
	We need to emphasize one thing on a macrocosmic level here.
	We have heard the story of the Magi in the Bible so many times, and yet we forget what that implies.
	First of all, these three gentlemen, who are often referred to as Magi Kings, were royal families from three separate areas of the world, three separate countries of the world.
	One of them was from Arabia, one was from Persia, and one in fact was from India.
	And we have great paintings from the earliest centuries The fact that all of these cultures and people knew about the coming of the Messiah directly contradicts the popular scholarly opinion that Jesus was a local myth.
	Jesus was anything but a local myth.
	He was a macrocosmic entity, the most important character Perhaps that ever lived, but certainly the most important character in that era of time, 1,000 years on each side.
	Each of these cultures from which these royal family members came from had in their own religious records, which by the way have never not emerged into Christian dogma in any way, shape, or form, the predictions and prophecies of the coming of the great Israeli king.
	As a matter of fact, our concept of pilgrimage comes from that particular moment in time, because the events that were predicted in their own faith, in their own traditions, had to be traveled to witness personally.
	And so, the astronomy community at that moment in history was poised, ready for this great event to occur.
	The entire world was alerted, all the way into Rome.
	Everybody was alerted.
	Caesar himself had his own astronomers who were alerted to this event.
	Everybody was waiting for this event to occur, and then we can set the scene for the Star of Bethlehem.
	On February 9th in 7 BC, when the merger of Jupiter and Saturn occurred in the morning sky, the Sun had already obliterated all the other stars in the sky with its early rays coming over the horizon, and the only star that was visible was in fact the merger of Jupiter and Saturn in the morning sky.
	May I stop you and ask you one question?
	I asked you whether this had occurred in modern times.
	You said you thought not.
	Are astronomers able to, in effect, with mathematics, go backward and tell us that this merger you speak of did occur then?
	Wonderful question, Art!
	You can do it through the Internet!
	Really?
	Yeah, there are sites that recreate the heavens at different moments in history.
	Of course.
	And in fact, you can do that.
	And in 7 BC, in fact, Jupiter and Saturn merge in the sky.
	You can watch it happen right over your screen.
	Thank you.
	That was a terrific question.
	So, that in fact does occur, and in fact that's one of the evidences of the fact that Jesus was in fact born in 7 B.C.
	and not in the year 0 A.D.
	as is our common tradition.
	And your earlier comment that we do not live in 1998.
	That is a huge story, which I will, if you'd like me to address it briefly, I certainly will.
	Well, since we're on dates and we're on conjunctive things like these, the merging of these stars, I think that let's take a second and see how important it is that we don't live in 1998.
	What year, in fact, do we live in and how does that affect what prophecy we have to look forward to?
	Well, we've opened Pandora's box.
	Let's walk through the gate.
	Sure.
	Our calendar was created by Dionysius Ignatius, a Scythian month in the year 533 A.D.
	under the direct orders of Caesar.
	He had originally asked Dionysius to create a calendar that could be universally used across the world, because once again, every single other culture in the world was using a different dating system.
	That was one of the problems with foreign commerce in the Roman Empire, is that everyone
	would use a different dating system, and they were constantly having to translate one date
	in one system to another date in another system.
	And the Roman Empire, if anything, they prided themselves in being a civilized society, and
	they opened the world around the birth of Jesus, the hundred years on both sides of
	Jesus, to an unprecedented economy that had never existed in the world where foreign trade
	was occurring.
	The oceans were protected by the Roman fleets and by the Phoenicians who were hired by the
	Romans, and so foreign commerce was being executed, and it was a constant source of
	aggravation and problem not to be able to use proper dates and times and translate them
	across cultures.
	And so Dionysius Ignatius was directly ordered by Caesar to create a calendar, and originally
	he was directed to use the origin or the founding of Rome or the system of AUD, which we do
	not use in our day and time.
	A.U.D.
	was using the year zero as the founding from Romulus and Remus of the city of Rome itself.
	Dionysius Ignatius convinced Caesar, because by the time of the 5th century, the politics of the Roman Empire and the Church had merged into one entity, he was able to convince Caesar that they should use the birth of the Savior as that time.
	Now, notice the coincidence between the year 533 A.D.
	and the year 33 A.D.
	when Jesus died.
	There's a 33 in both of those numbers.
	It was Dionysus, because of the celebrations that were occurring at that particular moment in time, he said Jesus was born 500 years ago.
	Well, he missed by seven years.
	And so, in reality, the year 2000 was really the year 1993.
	We live in the year, literally, if we are to use the correct technical terms, the terms that are probably most associated with prophecy, most associated with the apocalyptic events in our time, we really live in the year 2005 until New Year's Eve, and then we will live in the year 2006.
	So many of the calendars that refer to the apocalyptic events occurring in the year 2008
	and 2012, and the Incas I've sat with the heir to the Inca throne myself and spoken
	to them about their calendar systems, and the Jewish calendars, the ancient Jewish calendars,
	and the Druid calendars, and all those calendars which predict an apocalyptic era, probably
	refer to the original calendar date, and we are probably closer to those events than we
	Well, that's where I was going.
	In other words, we may be in for some big surprises somewhat sooner than a lot of people imagined?
	I would suspect that that's true.
	One of the biggest surprises that most people will have is how in the world did the Inca throne use the Eastern calendar system?
	the Eastern calendar system.
	And that is another huge story for another night, because obviously there was a great
	connection between Peru, especially in the 5th century B.C.
	with the great Irish king Othar as he settled Peru looking for gold, which was the monetary medium of exchange.
	These great European kings were always on the lookout for where they could pick up Go cheap in the streams and rivers and Peru was one of those great places and they brought with them the calendar system and the connection between Peru and Brazil and Mexico and all kinds of places in this hemisphere.
	They even brought the calendar system from Dionysius Ignatius with them as well.
	But Dionysius Ignatius missed the calendar system by seven years.
	We have to understand, too, I had to almost celebrate the other night when I saw this.
	I referred earlier to the program on the Lifetime Channel chronicling the portrait of the Virgin Mary.
	It was the first time in history I'd ever seen on television where they admitted that King Herod had died in 4 B.C.
	This is the Herod that had looked for the baby Jesus to kill him and killed all the babies two years old and under.
	This was the first time in history they've come on television and said Herod, in fact, The night of a lunar eclipse in 4 B.C.
	and so obviously Jesus had to have been born before that time.
	A precise fixing, yes.
	A precise fixing.
	Now the year 33 A.D.
	when Jesus died is much easier because of all the significant events around the crucifixion and the interaction between Rome and Palestine and the reign of Pontius Pilate, etc.
	Those are easy dates to fix.
	The birth of Jesus was the one that was still ambiguous in our day.
	Now that has been concretely fixed by the emergence of the star Bethlehem that can be created through computer regenerations in the heavens, and that occurred in 7 B.C.
	Now I have to ask you an obvious question, Art.
	Sure.
	If Jesus died in 33 A.D.
	and was born in 7 B.C., how old was he when he died?
	33 plus 7.
	That makes 40, right?
	Yes, sir.
	Now, 40 is an extremely significant number in the Old Testament.
	Forty days are reigned in Noah's time, and Moses did things 40 years here.
	Nineveh was tested for 40 days.
	The number 40 is the number associated with the similitude of the Messiah.
	All the way through Scripture, for all time and eternity, the number 40 has been associated with the Messiah himself.
	That is why Jesus didn't fast 30 days, which is a typical calendar month.
	That's why he fasted 40 days, that's why it rained 40 days in the time of Noah.
	The number 40 was the actual lifespan of Jesus.
	That also has some cooperation because ancient texts, which once again are not in our Bible, we call them the Messiah texts, I call them the Messiah texts, predict the life of the Messiah.
	the life of the Messiah, he would be 40 years old when he died.
	So our common misconceptions of Jesus being 33 years old when he died come out of a mistake
	of Diodesius Ignatius in the creation of our calendar.
	Thank you.
	If all of these things, Doctor, can be wrong, as you have chronicled, then why should we believe that what else is written is right?
	Well, that's an excellent question.
	I'd hate to have anybody think that I am totally right either.
	History is full of flaws.
	And my life is flawed, and I think you would admit that you have made some mistakes in your life.
	Big time.
	And I don't think we should hold structured religion to any more strict judgment than we do ourselves.
	Well, is this, though, not promulgated by those who take every single word of the Bible literally?
	Well, those that do that are going to be in the same condition the Jews were at the coming of the Messiah.
	They will miss the second coming because they will have their selves detailed out into outer space where there is plenty of myth oriented there.
	Oh, yes.
	And I don't mean that derogatory or to in any way injure anybody's belief systems or to threaten anyone.
	I hope everybody goes home from this show with a renewed feeling of faith.
	If anything else, it always does for me and I hope that they feel it as well.
	This is not threatening.
	This is just the rest of the story.
	Art, you provided that forum for the world and it really has taken off with the interviews that we've done with you.
	I take it that a lot of people have embraced this because after the last show you did, your book sales went totally berserk.
	Is that correct?
	Well, they certainly did.
	I'm currently with Ingram, who's the largest distributor of books in the world.
	I am ranked number one in my area.
	It is now a bestseller.
	I never thought I'd write a bestseller in my day.
	Congratulations.
	Well, I thank you very much, and the credit goes to you, Art, and to your educated audience.
	You've often said that on the air.
	I'm your great fan for many years, and you are absolutely correct.
	Earlier in the program, I suggested to you that I thought I might be tarred and feathered after the first program.
	In reality, the response has been just the opposite.
	There have been people who have called me.
	I have the story of a gentleman in New Mexico where he and his wife lived 30 miles outside of town.
	He had been a professional musician and she had been a professional dancer.
	They are now elderly in their late 70s.
	They were lamenting the fact that they didn't believe in the afterlife and were lamenting the fact that their life together was over.
	And he called me on the phone and played me an original piece for me, and his wife, though I could not see her, danced a dance for me.
	And I could not think of a greater Christmas present any man could ever have in his life than that humble gentleman who, by the way, has sent me some books chronicling the life of Jesus as a musician.
	Jesus was one of the foremost musicians in his time.
	He played the aloes.
	and invented a new musical style, a new musical scale.
	Jesus could have been a number of very famous things, not the least of which would have been a great musician in
	his time.
	Doctor, when we return, might we speak a bit about creation?
	If you'd like. I would like. Alright, stay right there.
	My guest is Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	I'm Art Bell, and you are listening to Coast to Coast AM and Actually Beyond.
	We'll be right back.
	All right, back we go.
	Dr. Kimball, Dr. Kimball, welcome back.
	Glad to have you back.
	The Bible is rather specific about the process of creation.
	That's how it all begins, or began, or however you want to look at it, to beget and then begotten.
	There was nothing and then there was something and our world was created, the process of creation by this God, the Big G God, the son of which we have been discussing.
	Do you believe creation as described in Genesis, Doctor?
	Well, the Bible itself was never intended to be a scientific textbook, especially the earliest manuscripts that are known to man.
	No, but if it is accurate, then there should be ways of scientifically verifying it as you did with the Star of Bethlehem?
	Well, I'm about to get to that, but there are a lot of different schools around the country that offer classes even now in the merger of creationism versus evolution.
	There's one here locally near me that offers a class in the resolution of that particular idea.
	But getting back to the... if you notice the creation story as it appears in Genesis, If you were to allegorically or macroscopically look at the creation story, it would appear to be a layman's version of an evolutionary type process, in my mind.
	We can go back to the monkey trials a number of decades ago.
	I don't want to retry scopes here, but sure.
	There's a great tendency on the part of people To hold up the Bible and suggest that it is the only history in existence and that it is the only word that all truth is contained within the Bible.
	My suggestion is that the Bible contains a lot of things that should lead us to truth, but in fact does not contain the details.
	We know, for example, that the life of Jesus was more than his mere birth in a vignette of twelve and then jumps to the end of his life, and yet that's what we commonly suggest in the Bible, is that his ministry began later in his life and that he did nothing in those in-between years.
	In fact, that's the focus of the Bible, is the life and times of Jesus, and yet his whole biography is missing.
	So if that's missing, then certainly pieces of the creation story are missing in this as well.
	And in fact, I'm getting to the point here that there are additional documents which speak about creation, ancient manuscripts, which get into much larger detail and suggest that the Earth, in fact, is the 4.5 billion years old that we claim it to be in the scientific world.
	And that our mortal existence in terms of our relationship with our own ancestors in written history perhaps is a much briefer time, but the creation itself was a very, very long process to include four and a half billion years old.
	I have to lapse a couple of times because I noticed a few years ago in Harvard They came out with the fact that the age of the earth was four and a half billion years old, but that the age of the sun itself is four billion years old.
	And I keep thinking to myself, well, that doesn't make sense, because then that makes the earth older than the sun.
	And if that's the truth, then perhaps this earth itself, if in fact they are right, that implies that the earth itself perhaps was taken from some other place in God's creation and placed here for a specific purpose.
	And the creation of the earth itself is a much more complicated process than we might have thought of.
	Well, Doctor, I personally have never had a problem with the concept of a sort of a biological soup washing about in the oceans and a bolt of lightning striking in a very fortuitous way And the beginning of life, which eventually crawled from the sea, and I've never really had a problem with imagining a creative hand involved in that process.
	Is that basically where you are?
	Well, I think so too, and if you look at many of the broad spectrum of ancient manuscripts, it says that life, that God is the father of life itself.
	And if we look at the DNA of a rabbit, and I hate to be irreverent here, It's not terribly unlike.
	In fact, it's closer to our own DNA, numerically speaking, than we might think.
	We're very, very similar.
	In fact, the DNA of wheat or plant life is not unlike that of humans.
	The basic structure, the basic elements, the basic formation, and many of the same gene patterns are located on a On the stock or on the double helix of the DNA of a wheat as there are in human beings.
	And that suggests a common origin.
	It's a phenomenological or rhetorical piece of evidence that in fact, that if DNA is in fact inside plant and animal life together, that in fact they came from a common DNA origin.
	And if that's the truth, then perhaps God the Father is in fact I like to bring in the analogy of Einstein for a moment.
	life itself on this planet in a fail swoop. He is not unlike the father of humans any
	more than he's unlike the father of the plant life, etc.
	I like to bring in the analogy of Einstein for a moment. He often spoke in his lifetime,
	and I eat dinner all the time, of a gentleman, a great Jewish gentleman who ate dinner with
	Einstein frequently, and we exchanged Einstein stories back and forth, and I learned a great
	deal about him. But he suggested in his lifetime that there would ultimately come a day when
	there's a unified theory of quantum mechanics.
	And I'm trying to suggest to the world that there's also probably going to occur, in fact prophetically going to occur, a unified theory of faith, or religion, or common origins of religion.
	We have fragmented and gone into a geometrically complex entity where we all want to protect our turf in terms of religion.
	But in fact, prophetically, there is a day coming when that will come back into a simplified theory where faith will be unified at some point in time.
	In fact, prophetically, during those thousand years of peace after the apocalypse.
	So, Doctor, we're talking about genetics, so I have a question for you here.
	You're well aware, I'm sure, of the Shroud of Turin.
	The possibility that some blood might even be recovered from the Shroud of Turin.
	So, hypothetically, if we were to recover blood from the Shroud of Turin and we were to be able to decipher, as we are now, the human genome, the DNA of Christ, just work with me on this, would you expect to find A subtle, but perhaps important difference in the DNA of Christ?
	I don't think so.
	First of all, I have read extensively about the Shroud of Turin, and I'm not entirely certain it's genuine at all.
	It appears to me to be 11th century creation, and in fact a painting.
	But, you know, the Shroud of Turin brings up an entire new Genre of ideas that, where are the artifacts from original Christianity?
	And that is a real entity out there, where, for example, John Lennon of the Beatles spent half his lifetime looking for the spear that lands beside of Jesus at the time of the crucifixion.
	Not unlike the Holy Grail search of the 12th century for the European kings returning to the Muslim territory to retrieve the Holy Grail.
	This sphere of the Lamb's Society of Jesus was reported to have many of those same qualities, and in fact, that search has narrowed considerably, and we have a very good idea where that might be.
	You know, we talk about the Ark of the Covenant from the time of Moses, we talk about half a dozen different religious artifacts, and I just want to suggest to your readers today that there's an extremely significant dig going on in Jerusalem Even as we speak, and it's being conducted by a gentleman called Vindal Jones, who has been on the television many times.
	Vindal Jones, his nickname is Vindy Jones.
	Does that sound familiar to you, Art?
	It does.
	Vindy Jones is actually reported to, he claims to be the origin of the Indiana Jones series.
	He is at the site, right now in Jerusalem, where he claims the vault of the ruins of the Temple of Herod is located.
	Where they took the artifacts from the Temple of Herod that was destroyed in 70 A.D.
	by the Romans, and where those artifacts will be uncovered at some point in time.
	In fact, he was back in this country because the Jewish government had requested of him a $60,000 tax in order to be able to continue his dig, which in my opinion was probably an obvious bribe.
	uh... he raised that money would return to truce woman continues in that event
	even as we speak today and i suspect that one point time will find that that is
	that the discovery that will hit the front pages of the
	newspaper let us discuss miracles doctor there are modern day
	miracles that are totally inexplicable there are people with cancers and
	other absolutely
	fatal diagnosed diseases that suddenly for no discernible reason
	simply go away and that has to be described it is described by doctors who shake their heads as nothing
	short of a Now when we finally completely unravel the human genome I wouldn't be surprised to find
	Some subtle difference in the genetic structure of those who experience such miracles, and that's the reason I asked you that question.
	Well, it's entirely possible that the process left its footprints in the genome.
	There you are.
	And I would suspect that we will be able to read that pathway at some not-too-distant future.
	Coincidentally, you mentioned that particular process of Miraculous feelings in our day.
	They did a great study in the San Francisco hospitals not too terribly long ago where they did a double blind study where they took half of the patients in the hospital, put their names randomly in envelopes, And sent half of the patient's names to individuals in Kansas, if I'm not mistaken, for them to pray over half of the people that were in the hospital, and they did a statistical survey after the fact on who did well and who fared better than who, and clearly those who had been prayed for
	Fared better as a general population, not as a specific population, but as a general population than those who were not prayed for.
	No, you're not going to have to talk me into that one.
	I've seen it happen.
	I've seen it happen, Doctor.
	A question by email.
	Ask Dr. Kimball, please, could there be a coded book hidden within the Bible as claimed, I'm sure you all know, by Michael Drosnin in his book, The Bible Code?
	Well, numerology was the specialty of the Jews, even at the time of Jesus, and part of the reason why I mentioned that the age of Jesus was 40 was because there is a specific significance in Jewish tradition, numerologically speaking, with the number 40, and nothing to do with the number 33, 33 his age.
	There are codes in the Bible, and I think it's Psalms 46, or it's either Psalms 46 or 42, or Shakespeare, who assisted King James in the translation of our Bible today, or one of the Bibles today, leaves his fingerprints in the Bible, where if you count 46 words, or if it's in the case of 42, 46 words in from the front and 46 words in from the back, you get the word Shakespeare.
	So, there are little codes left in the Bible from a number of different perspectives, not only in terms of Judeo-numerology, but other people have left their footprints in the translations of the Bible as well.
	Though I am not a numerologist myself, I'm a historian, numerology was a way of transmitting information back and forth.
	And certainly there are codes within codes within codes inside the Bible itself today.
	Why would you imagine that would be so?
	Historically speaking, I think that the numbers were holy to the ancient world prior to Jesus.
	We see in the great pyramids how many terms of physics and how many terms of astronomy are encoded in the actual architecture of ancient Egypt, and in fact in Palestine, and in fact in the Americas, for that matter, and in Africa, where Jesus sailed around Africa on the boats of his great-uncle to visit India during his lifetime.
	We have great books on his visit there, and he's quoted in the Vishnu Purana and the Rishabhidas, the holy books of the Hindus, during his mortal ministry, and in fact visited India.
	And the numerology was terribly significant to these people.
	In fact, Pythagoras' theorem was a religious theorem for many years.
	And so those who could perform the math were in fact considered holy wise men, much like
	the Magi who came to visit the birth of Jesus.
	These people were considered magicians, were considered holy, were considered prophets.
	Would it then be reasonable to conclude that all of this would be there for us to decode
	and understand at the time that we were meant to when we had matured to the point where
	we could realize what was written between the lines, so to speak?
	I think that's definitely true, but I would add an even more important comment, that there are hidden books that we haven't even looked at yet that are even more important than the hidden codes inside the Bible itself.
	The fact that the Bible comes to us from the 3rd century AD in the Nicene Council, we forget how many books were on the table at the time of the Nicene Council when the great vote occurred to give us the Bible.
	That story is a huge story.
	The number of books that were available for the Nicene Council at that time dwarfed the size of the Bible by many, many, many, many, many times.
	We know, and that's not new news.
	Because the Old Testament, where do we get the Old Testament?
	We get the Old Testament from 73 B.C.
	when there was a delegation of seven priests from each of the tribe of Israel who had to exit Palestine and go to Egypt, to the great library of Alexandria, Egypt, where in fact there were 760,000 scrolls, and they selected a few that became our Old Testament.
	They could not get them in Palestine, because by the time of the birth of Jesus and a hundred years before then, the Jews had already outlawed everything but the Torah in the entire country.
	You could not have other kinds of ancient writings in the country.
	They held up their own version of the Bible and said, this is it, and there isn't any more.
	And so in order to be able to retrieve the Old Testament, they had to actually exit the country and go to Egypt to that great library where there are 760,000 scrolls.
	And we have to only wonder how many thousands and tens of thousands of scrolls were left out of the final canonization of the Old Testament, and that is also true of the New Testament.
	We can give you concrete examples.
	We look at the letters of Paul in the Bible as being extremely important, but what about the rest of the letters that he wrote that survived to our day?
	Why weren't they in the canon?
	And I'll tell you the reason why, because they weren't popular.
	At the time of Jesus, every single church had their own library, and they had the records of their own visits from their own favorite apostles.
	And at the time of the Nicene Council, the popular books were voted on and accepted into the canon.
	Those that were not so popular were thrown out and ignored for history, though great copies survive to our day and tell us the extents of nature.
	of how many extra biblical documents there are, there are hundreds of thousands of them.
	Doctor, there are many modern-day scholars who think that, and of course there are many holes in evolution, even the science of evolution, there are some periods of time that we don't understand, particularly critical ones, when man seems to have acquired many of His modern cherished traits of intelligence and self-conscious, you know, awareness and all the rest of it.
	There are scholars who suggest that there were gods, small g-gods, who intervened genetically with us.
	What would you say to them?
	Well, Zachariah Sitchin is obviously interesting to me and I know of him well and I know of the ancient manuscripts and texts that he uses.
	Perhaps we can get at that in the other hour.
	Let us do exactly that.
	Stay right there.
	We're at the bottom of this hour as time flies.
	Dr. Kimball, welcome back.
	Let us consider that then, the work of the scholar Sitchin.
	I've interviewed him many times.
	You, I'm sure, know exactly what he believes.
	And is it possible that at some point in our evolutionary trip there was a little modification perhaps made by others?
	Well, let's approach it from two different aspects.
	First of all, he is a professional in his own arena.
	I'm more of a scholar regarding the books relating to Jesus, his apostles, and life and times.
	But let me cause a link here, if I could, for just a moment.
	Sure.
	In the great pseudepigraphal documents, which are related to the Old Testament, there are many stories of the great watcher society.
	And Alexander, or Zachariah, excuse me, references that as well.
	The Watcher Society were the people who bred with the children, with the daughters of Adam and Eve, and created a problem for which part of the intent of the Flood was to purify the mortal race, so to speak, at that particular moment in time.
	And that's clearly associated with with documents relating to the Old Testament.
	Now, to the extent that people had the capability of writing fiction, we're certainly capable in our society of writing that.
	I don't know.
	You're asking me whether I believe that or not?
	I don't know.
	I'm in that arena where I am a student and not the scholar in that arena.
	However, clearly there were mentions of Of contamination of the race in the earliest documents that we have recorded available that are in fact related and associated with our Bible.
	Or is it possible that the small G-Gods that may have intervened produced that unhappy mixture that was then cleansed by big G-God?
	Well, for those who are scholars in the field of the Pseudepigraphic Old Testament documents, Clearly, that was the inference, that there was a contamination of the race at that moment in time, and part of the reason for the flood of Noah was to purify that race and to wash out the traces of the Watcher society at that moment in history.
	All right.
	By email, this question, it'll yank us back.
	If you please, Art, would you ask your guest?
	To summarize, in five or ten minutes, how accurate are the words of Jesus in the New Testament, and how he would state Jesus' real instructions for us if they are not accurate?
	Well, I think that the words in the Bible are extremely accurate.
	Anyone that thinks that I take the focus off the Bible are in error.
	I think they're extremely accurate.
	However, we must understand one critical thing.
	That the Bible does not contain all the words of Jesus.
	As a matter of fact, if you were to take the Nachamari alone, there are more words of Jesus recorded in the Nachamari library than there are in the Bible combined, many times over.
	And so the instructions of Jesus in the Bible are intended for us in our day.
	I personally believe that it is the most important influence On our modern society and political structures that has ever existed, the moral concepts and the rules of love and law and the way we should really relate to each other and have faith in the big G God, his instructions are specific and accurate.
	but to think that they are the only ones that exist in our day and time is not correct,
	because in reality the documents are so numerous out there with his instructions and with clarifications
	and indeed the extra biography of Jesus that is missing from the Bible that it constantly
	amazes me that Christianity itself has not searched or a cause to be searched all the
	words of Jesus.
	We shut the door with the Canon at the Nicene Council.
	We shut the door on anything else Jesus might have said in history.
	And that is the greatest tragedy in our day.
	That we shut the door to the focus of the Bible itself, and that was Jesus Christ.
	We shut the door on his biography.
	We shut the door on his miracles.
	We shut the door on the things that he had to say for our day and time.
	And as a result, we are blind outside the covers of the Bible.
	To what he might have said that pertained to us in our specific day and time, and to the events that are happening in our life.
	And in fact, I believe that there are many manuscripts out there that do relate to us that were not contained within the Bible.
	Doctor, did we slam the door on reincarnation?
	Well, reincarnation is another one of these opening these Pandora boxes.
	Well, that's my business.
	That is your business!
	Certainly, the idea that we live before this life, this mortal existence, and the fact that we will have a life after this mortal existence is clearly recorded biblically as well as extra-biblically, far more so extra-biblically than biblically.
	The parallels between multiple mortal existences and the parallels between the most ancient of concepts, which is multiple estates, they call them in ancient texts, are rampant, but they are not the same thing in my mind.
	The fact that we might have existed prior to mortality does not mean that we existed in the flesh, necessarily.
	Certainly, that is the Hindu philosophy, the Eastern philosophy, but that Eastern philosophy, once again, is a derivative of a unified theory of existence, which predates reincarnation, which suggests multiple existences that are not necessarily mortal existences.
	where we lived before we came here. We have a life after this life, and in fact there
	are probably four distinct existences that are stated in ancient manuscripts, and we
	could perhaps get into that at some point in time.
	But reincarnation as per se, I am not a believer of that, though the origins of the concept
	of reincarnation, meaning multiple existences, is clearly related to the oldest in ancient
	manuscripts that we have in our possession.
	Do you believe that there is a heaven and there is a hell as we traditionally understand them?
	Well, if you listen to Elaine Taggles, who is one of my favorite authors in the world,
	she wrote The Origin of the Devil, we have altered our concepts of devil and hell over
	many thousands of years.
	We've risen the concept of hell as a weapon in modern Christianity and lorded over the
	followings of the various and sundry religious structures, when in reality it was not as
	much a fearful tactic for the ancients.
	They didn't stand up and say, you're going to go to hell if you don't behave yourself.
	Clearly the inference in the oldest of manuscripts was the fact that you will not have received the reward you might have received if you behaved yourself.
	Elaine Pagel suggests that the origin of the devil is a contemporary origin rather than an ancient origin, and I would conclude that she is correct in that.
	In terms of our modern concepts of the devil.
	Fascinating.
	Somebody writes to me, we just had a 4.5 magnitude earthquake right in my area.
	Asks if I felt it.
	No, I did not.
	Nor can I confirm that it occurred.
	But as you spoke earlier of 1998 not being the real year we're living in, and we assume that we're living in the year you suggested we are living in, What do we have to look forward to in terms of biblical prophecy and how soon will it begin to occur?
	What are the timelines?
	What a wonderful question, and I take this from a very off-the-wall perspective.
	99% of the people out there that are talking about an apocalyptic era Which is eminent within a decade, I suspect, from all of the ancient prophecies and calendar systems.
	They all focus on a six or seven year period of apocalypse, and they completely avoid one thing, Art.
	They completely avoid a discussion of the thousand years of prophecy It's a post-apocalyptic era.
	They do not speak of anything about that time.
	They do not tell you anything that's going to happen at that moment in history, and yet that's a thousand years compared to six years of apocalyptic disaster.
	I think that's the greatest tragedy in the world, is that we once again like to throw fear tactics around at each other and say, hey, we're going to have six years of apocalyptic era and destruction and catastrophes, but no one talks about the great hope The great millennial era of peace, the legacy that we will leave our children, which is an era of time when there will be no more bloodshed, where there will be no more wars between peoples, where in fact there will be a common political structure which will have mercy and will have total peace for a thousand years.
	The world has never experienced a thousand years of peace.
	We haven't experienced one year of peace in history.
	That's right.
	That's absolutely correct.
	And so people who talk to me always want to ask me about the apocalyptic era, when it's coming, almost out of fear for these events.
	Frankly, if they come, I want to get on the roof with a cold drink and watch it happen, you know?
	I'm looking forward to the legacy of this thousand years of peace that is clearly in
	prophecy and the events that occur during those thousand years which are in prophecy
	as the legacy for my children, a hope for a better tomorrow that we have never had on
	this earth.
	And it is the most inspiring message of Christmas this year that I could ever give anybody,
	that there is a legacy for our children and our grandchildren and our progeny forever,
	that there is a thousand years when there will be no more bloodshed and no more wars
	and there will be great work to be done in that thousand years prior to a so-called final
	judgment era of time.
	So your attitude would sort of be a theological version of how I learned to love the bomb?
	Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
	Very interesting, Art.
	I should be interviewing you.
	Listen, let's turn, because we don't have enough time, there's not enough time, and I'm going to have to go to calls at the top of the hour, or they'll crucify me.
	But the hidden politics of the crucifixion is surely intriguing.
	What, if you can encapsulate that in the time we have remaining, An impossible task, I'm sure, but just give me a rough idea of where that book takes us.
	Well, contained within each of my books are translations of ancient manuscripts.
	I want to give people the first-hand documents.
	In the Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion, Are the letters of Pontius Pilate himself, of Herod, and Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar and Augustus Caesar, and the writings of Nicodemus regarding Joseph of Arimathea.
	And this is important because it changes the perspective on the crucifixion.
	It gives you a part of the story that's completely left out of our common traditions, in that what were the heads of state thinking?
	Why did they in fact want Jesus dead?
	Why was Pontius Pilate conspicuously wiping his hands on a towel, trying not to crucify Jesus, when in reality he had been sent to the Eastern Province to in fact root out and exterminate the Messiah King who was a threat to Rome?
	The reality of the matter is, through his letters, we find out several startling banner headlines.
	Pontius Pilate was born in Seville, Spain, educated in England, brought to Rome by Lucius San Janus, and in fact knew of Jesus' family while he was being educated in England.
	He knew of Jesus' family because Tiberius Caesar was a personal friend of Joseph of Arimathea, and that Tiberius Caesar himself did not want Jesus to be crucified.
	Tiberius Caesar had sent a letter through his granddaughter, Claudia Proculla, who was Pontius Pilate's wife, To bring Jesus to Rome to heal him because he was ill at that time and he wanted to have a royal healing from a man who could heal with the word of his mouth and that letter did not get to Palestine in time to save the life of Jesus.
	And what caused Pontius Pilate to allow the three gentlemen, Annas, Caiaphas, and Herod to crucify Jesus was because clearly Pilate was being blackmailed by these three people And that blackmail scenario is in the book as well, and it's an extensive story, probably, to be left for another time.
	But the perspective in history that the Romans hated Christians, hated Jews, didn't know of Jesus, and wantonly killed three million Christians in the Colosseums because it was just fun and play, that is a myth.
	A myth of all times, and you can get it from the horse's mouth, from Pontius Pilate's letters himself, what was the real political entity, why in fact the Christians really did get martyred in the Colosseums, and the answer to that question is because Tiberius Caesar, and this is going to sound shocking, was trying to vindicate the death of Jesus.
	He went back to destroy the Jews and the early Christians to vindicate Jesus because he knew of his family, and I provide that evidence in the book from the letters of Pontius Pilate and Herod from their own hand.
	A lot of people are going to want to know two things, Doctor.
	One, how to get your books.
	Obviously, Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus, Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion.
	They're going to want to know how to get them.
	I assume they're available now in places like most bookstores, let us say, perhaps up on Amazon.com, or maybe you have a phone number, or what's the deal?
	well you can get the books of all the bookstores barnes and noble bookstores
	uh... amazon dot com barnes and noble dot com you can get on my website
	ancient manuscripts dot com and by the way uh... jesse cole johnson who was an award-winning
	playwright for the u n a magnificent gentleman
	is currently doing a by broadway production on on cassette and cd
	of for audio i've had so many blind people who have written a uh... and all the people who could not see in one
	of the tapes and jesse will have those out uh... just shortly after
	christmas and they'll be available on my website
	and eventually in bookstores across america uh...
	on the website to our tremendous research links
	people up my dream was to provide the world with a way to find out for
	themselves so they didn't have to believe me and i put some links and there will be extensive links
	added to this so that people can search the actual library of congress
	uh... the vatican's online the smithsonian's online uh...
	that all of the scriptures from all the major religions in the world
	are on my linkagin
	and so you can you can go to my site and literally use it for a high school
	report all the way up to scientific research Alright, the great majority of my listeners are used to going to my website, so do so, folks, as you usually do.
	Scroll down to Dr. Kimball's name.
	And click on the link there, and away you go.
	Now, Doctor, one other thing.
	What about communications with you?
	If somebody in the audience would like to write you a letter, or send you email, or in some other manner, communicate directly with you, what would be the best avenue?
	Well, once again, they can go to your website, click onto my website, and my personal email is on my website with all of you.
	I take it that you would serve up the caveat that you will answer, but no doubt you get rather high volumes of email, and so it takes a while.
	It does, and people will have to be patient with me.
	The last time we did this, I got 1,200 emails in about an hour.
	And I did get back to all of them, though, but it took me a while.
	Well, why don't we go ahead, even though it's up there, why don't we give your specific email address?
	What is it?
	It's gkimball at xmission.com, and the letter x, and mission is m-i-s-s-o-i-o-n, excuse me, mission, m-i-s-s-i-o-n dot com, so it's g, kimball is spelled k-i-m-b-a-l-l.
	Is all of this lowercase?
	Yes, it all.
	So it's g-k-i-m-b-a-l-l at?
	Okay, what I want to do now is break.
	Well, I actually want to do, I have to do, I live and die by the clock.
	And this is Barbara Simpson here with you on Coast to Coast AM.
	We're continuing with our guest, Glenn Kimball.
	He's an author, lecturer on extra-biblical manuscripts.
	He's a businessman, an academic, former talk show host.
	Did you really do talk show hosting, Glenn?
	Oh, yeah.
	My degrees are in communication.
	Though I studied organizational communication, I've done a lot of radio and television production and on-air hosting.
	I'm not visually the most.
	Well, it wasn't television.
	It was radio, right?
	Yeah, it was radio.
	There you go.
	We've got a lot of people on the line, so let's try to do this, and it will go to Dallas, Texas, and Dale is with us on the East of the Rockies line.
	Hi Dale, how are you?
	Hello, good morning.
	Good morning.
	Okay, I have three questions I'd like to ask your guest about.
	Sure.
	Earlier he mentioned, or alluded to, the idea that we have a life before our lives here on the earth.
	And just to let you know where I'm coming from, I'm a Seventh-day Adventist, and I don't see that in the Bible.
	When you look in Genesis, it talks about Adam, it talks about how God wonderfully formed the body of man from the death of the ground, but at that point he was still dead.
	Can I suggest to you that this is probably a question more for your clergy than for me?
	Well, you just alluded, I thought.
	of word there that says he became a living soul.
	Can I suggest to you that this is probably a question more for your clergy than for me?
	Well you just alluded I thought.
	Well I definitely alluded to it because that is something that is very definitely suggested
	in the extra biblical text.
	Those who are limited to the Bible will have a limited perspective and that is fine and
	Really, that's something you should ask your clergy and not a historian.
	Your clergy are good.
	They'll help you.
	If it's a dispute you're looking for, I'd prefer not to.
	I would prefer to encourage your clergy rather than to take issue with your clergy on that point.
	One other quick question, Dan?
	Let me just proceed a little bit further.
	So you believe that before my first conscious moment on this life, which was probably somewhere around the age of 2, 3 or 4, I had a prior existence and if that's true, according to your belief, given what you've read, When did that begin?
	Or would you say that we are immortal?
	That we never had a beginning?
	I'll let him answer that.
	I'll mention it real quickly.
	The book of Revelations talks about a great council that was held before the foundations of the world were laid.
	And if that's the case, then that's over four and a half billion years ago.
	And guess who attended that?
	Our elder brother Christ and his younger brother, us.
	We were both there, and Lucifer was there, and Father in Heaven was there.
	And the announcement came that we would have an opportunity to experience good and evil, have a leave the nest, so to speak.
	And a third of the hosts of heaven followed the plan of Satan, which was to force men back to God.
	And two-thirds of the hosts of heaven, which are us, had that experience.
	Shouted for joy, and the reverberation of that shout for joy echoes through the universe to this day.
	I could talk to you about the ancient texts that describe the celebration noise that occurred from that event.
	And guess who was the ones that were shouting for joy?
	T'was us!
	What a party!
	Sounds like a party I wouldn't mind being at.
	We're talking to Glenn Kimball.
	I'm Barbara Simpson.
	This is Coast to Coast, day in.
	Stop.
	Bob.
	Barbara Simpson here with you on Coast to Coast AM.
	We're talking with Glenn Kimball, and we're talking about the life of Jesus that is not in the Bible.
	Glenn, we have some people who want to talk with you.
	Dean is calling us from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
	Good morning, Dean.
	How are you doing?
	Good morning.
	I'm doing very well.
	Good.
	Thanks for calling.
	Go ahead with your question for our guest.
	Okay.
	I just have a comment, and then I have a question, okay?
	Yep.
	If you guys know the 666 in the Bible, the number of the devil, I guess six, And if you take, um, the letters of the alphabet, there's 26 letters of the alphabet, and you make, like, A equals 6, B equals 12, uh, C equals 18, and so on, so, uh, actually, Q would be nice, so it'd be multiples of 6.
	Yeah.
	If you do that, and you spell out the word computer, Mark of Beast, Lucifer Hell, Lucifer Hades, Devil Dragon, and People Sin, and you add up all the numbers of each individual letter, you're gonna get 666 each time.
	I thought that was pretty neat, so you guys can look at that after.
	And my question was just wondering about what's your views on the rapture, and do you think Jesus is going to be coming back and taking the people out for the rapture?
	I'll open to the comment.
	Thanks very much.
	Okay, thank you.
	What about the rapture?
	The rapture is a coined phrase coined by John Darby in 1845.
	It alludes to a very obscure passage in the book of Revelations which suggests that somewhere during the apocalyptic era of time, That the earth will be covered with fire and some of the faithful will be caught up to meet God in the heavens.
	It doesn't suggest that they might be returned to the earth.
	Certainly we know from the messianic prophecies that the earth continues after the apocalyptic era.
	But largely John Darby did this to cover up his prediction and his compadre's prediction of the end of the world that was done in 1842, 43, and 44.
	Then they had to have some banner headline to cover up what they had done.
	John Darby's famous in American history, by the way.
	I'm amazed that most of our good, born-again Christians are not familiar with this, because he plays an extremely prominent role, and he had a tremendously large congregation in the mid-1800s.
	But the coinage of the phrase, a rapture, does not appear in the Bible.
	A rapture is a coined phrase of John Darby, not of Jesus.
	Do you believe in it?
	Well, I believe that the event that there will be an occasion where there will be some people trapped in an apocalyptic situation and need to be rescued is absolute.
	But to think that this one sole experience is the epiphanal experience of mortality is ridiculous.
	Okay, let's go to Waterbury, Connecticut, and Penn is on the line.
	Hello, Penn.
	Morning.
	Good morning.
	I have a question in regards to Peter.
	My readings in the different texts of the Bible, it refers to when Jesus asked Peter, who do you say I am?
	And Peter responded by saying, you are the Son of God.
	And it comes up in all four versions of the Gospel of the Apostles.
	Where Christ says, upon my church of Iraq, I will build my church.
	And what is bound on earth, which you say is bound on earth, which is bound in heaven.
	To me, that would be that Jesus would put authority in Peter as the overseer of the church of God on earth.
	Well, Jesus was asked point blank the question, who will succeed you when you die?
	And, you know, we have a lot of Metaphorical things that might allude to Peter being in a special position in the post-crucifixion era, and certainly he was.
	But Jesus is asked point-blank, who will succeed you when you die?
	And he was asked that in face of all the twelve apostles collectively.
	And he said, James, for which reason the earth came into being?
	And Peter himself, in his own homilies, he wrote this himself.
	He says, if there is a dispute, if my words dispute those of James, then believe James in lieu of my own.
	Now, are those words in the traditional Bible, or the other man's?
	They are the 12th verse of the Gospel of Thomas, written by his little brother, Thomas.
	Okay, very good.
	Thank you for that question, Penn.
	Let's go to Bullhead City, Arizona, and say good morning to George.
	Hi, George!
	Good morning, George.
	I'd like to speak about the resurrection of Christ and others.
	One thing, the crucifixion is the first thing most people lose track of.
	It's just an execution.
	An execution by suffocation.
	Yeah, what's your point?
	The point was to kill whoever you're crucifying and obviously people die.
	We lose track of it, it is an execution by suffocation and that the Romans were executing people that day and were quite good at documentation of following ritual Crucifixions were ritualistic executions, the same as the state of Texas does lethal injection by ritual.
	No more, no less.
	What is your point?
	Well, I'm getting to the point.
	Go ahead.
	Your impatience prevents, you know, free speech.
	Right?
	I don't think so.
	You've got the microphone.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead, please.
	Okay.
	Part of the ritual of execution by crucifixion at that time was to administer a death wine as a means of being nice to the person being executed but in fact it was very nice to the executioners that did not have to hear the Moans and groans and wails of somebody that was in extreme pain.
	And part of what happens when you administer death wine is the person goes out cold for three days.
	The Jesuits found that out during their inquisitions in northern Germany.
	So I was surprised the Jesuits didn't bring that one out about How people could be resurrected.
	That's only because we're not that loose on time.
	It has nothing to do with free speech, George.
	It has to do with the clock.
	Do you have any response to that, Glenn?
	Well, the amazing thing about crucifixion is in the ancient messianic traditions 3,000 years before Christ was born, it specifically said that the Messiah would be nailed to a cross of wood.
	And they were people during the lifetime of Christ.
	See, crucifixion was only invented 68 years before 0 AD.
	It was invented during the latter portion of the reign of Julius Caesar, basically.
	And so, when Jesus was alive, he was warned on multiple occasions, hey, the Messiah was prophesied to be nailed to a cross, and this is the only era of time that that could be In effect, so be wary of being crucified by the Romans.
	However, his friends also knew that Jesus was well favored by Roman people.
	He was well favored by Tiberius Caesar.
	Tiberius Caesar used to keep tabs on him all the time.
	He had written a letter to his granddaughter, Claudia Procula, just before the crucifixion, and requested Jesus to be brought to Rome to effect the royal healing.
	And that letter didn't get there in time for the crucifixion.
	So we're talking about The crucifixion itself was a principal element in the messianic traditions which predate Osiris, predate Horus, predate Isis, that predate all of these traditions which were assimilated from the messianic traditions.
	The mimics were not the messianic traditions, the mimics were the Egyptians.
	The mimics were the Hindus, the mimics were the And of course, to fulfill the prophecy, it had to happen.
	Yes.
	Let's go to San Rafael, California.
	Barry's on the line.
	Good morning, Barry.
	Good morning.
	How are you?
	Good.
	Thanks for calling.
	Hey, I want to talk to Glenn just a moment about something he commented on.
	It was his response to the idea of reincarnation.
	You called it sort of a virtual reality.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, that's not a Christmas question, but yeah, that's what I said.
	I've kind of been a missed part of your show, I'm sorry for that.
	Did you call it something like a virtual reality experience?
	What it is, is the library in heaven, the Lamb's Book of Life mentioned in the scriptures, is a virtual reality library, not a book of paper and ink.
	It is a recording of all life's experiences from a first-person perspective.
	And if you tap into that in some way, shape, or form, You might misconstrue that experience as being your own property when in reality you're merely experiencing someone else's experience.
	Some months ago I had a dream that was just like this.
	I happen to believe quite strongly that God answers prayers to those who want him to and try to get him to answer their prayers.
	In my experience it was to actually travel.
	to that time and place experientially to see events that took place that have not been recorded.
	And I think that people can have these kinds of experiences either in dreams or trances or in some form and then misconstrue them as past lives.
	Yes.
	Again, I'm saying I had that experience myself in a dream.
	I've had it too.
	In fact, Elena Proffitt, who was the Psyche Detective for the L.A.
	Police Force, I was sitting with her last year.
	And I've said this before on this network, that she was handling the clothes of a little girl who had been murdered, and went into this experience, which was a guest member-like experience, where she was seeing the murder happen from the perspective of the little girl.
	And I leaned over to her like the kidder that I am in these very serious moments, and I said, Aha!
	You are the reincarnation of that little girl!
	And she says, don't be facetious at a moment like this.
	I'm not being facetious.
	You've been telling me you believe in reincarnation all this time, when in reality these experiences that happen to you are merely virtual reality experiences or access to this great library or virtual stream of knowledge that exists in the universe.
	If you really sat down and meditated like a Hindu monk or like a Buddhist monk, And did it all day long for 20 years.
	I promise you one thing, that you will tap into this universal stream of consciousness, and you will trip someplace, and you will think that it's your own, that it's your story, but it will not be your story.
	It will be the story of something that exists out there.
	Glenn, I happen to believe that everybody has access to that.
	They do.
	And some will receive it in different forms, again, maybe in a trance or in a dream.
	I used to have problems with guys like Edgar Cayce, and that he would have these kinds of revelations and things.
	I don't now, because I can see that, you know, why should we... Well, I just don't have any problem with it now.
	Could I share one thing with you about how I have my prayers answered every time I ask?
	You've got about 20 seconds.
	I'll do it as quick as I can.
	First, reflect on how good God has been to you.
	Humble yourself as much as you can emotionally.
	Put aside all pride and arrogance.
	Picture intensely Christ.
	The image I use is Christ in the garden praying.
	I try to picture Him, hear Him.
	If a doubt comes in or a distraction, I picture Christ as hard as I can.
	The thing I ask for is I try to submit my will to God.
	If the thing God wants is greater than what I want, let that be.
	And if it's still okay that I can have the thing I ask for, let that be.
	Let's see if God's will would prevail.
	Thank you, Barry.
	I always sort of joke about it, but in a sense I think it's true, Glenn, that God answers everybody's prayers, but sometimes the answer is no.
	And that may well be it.
	This was a good caller.
	The thing that's amazing to me is we have a chance to explore history here, but you know, whenever you open up this subject of Christ, everyone wants to take the floor to preach his own beliefs.
	Always.
	Always.
	The history is more interesting.
	We're talking to Glenn Kimball.
	We're talking about the history.
	I'm Barbara Simpson on Coast to Coast AM.
	The official website for Coast to Coast AM is www.coasttocoastam.com.
	is www.coastercoastam.com.
	Log on now.
	Thank you.
	We were talking about the Knights Templars and their relationship.
	Okay, thank you, Art.
	We were talking about the Knights Templars and their relationship.
	Lomas and Knight have said that the Templars were there in Jerusalem during the Crusade
	time to excavate the Temple of Jerusalem.
	During that time, they found that Jesus had been involved with Egyptian magic, that his
	message had really been one more of a Gnostic type of belief, something that was a bit more
	esoteric than what we've come down to with the Church's teaching.
	Did you find any, in your studies, did you find any relationship between Jesus and his study of Egyptian Magic, the Cult of Isis, and also the evidence suggests that Mary Magdalene may have been married or been his wife, and that he may have had children.
	Could you answer that?
	Well, they ask questions that require years of research in a few minutes, but I would rather suspect that the Cult of Isis came from the original Hebrew traditions rather than vice versa.
	We speak of Gnostics as if they were some perverted faith, and in reality they ended up that way.
	They were an orgiastic cult that disintegrated itself in the 4th century AD.
	However, the origins of Gnosticism were very, very Christian.
	As a matter of fact, Edom, if you look at your map, was only 15 miles or so south of Jerusalem.
	In fact, Jesus spent much of his time amongst the Essenes and the Gnostic movements.
	Well, I can only speak of one period of time in one breath, but it is my opinion, if you want to speak about Egyptian, let's go back for that for just a moment.
	Joseph, who was sold into Egypt by his brothers, was married to an Egyptian woman, but come to find out that that Egyptian woman was also his cousin.
	So, the connection between the ancient Egyptians and the Hebrew people who lived in their neighborhood was very, very close.
	And the Egyptians, being mystics and magicians, took many of their beliefs from, in fact, the Hebrew people.
	We tend to think that the Hebrews were a subculture or a rural agrarian culture, and that the Egyptians were the dominant people on the planet at that time, perhaps economically speaking.
	In terms of religion and scripture and culture, the Egyptians borrowed from their neighbors and in fact originated many of their thoughts from suggestions that were in fact originated with the 24 ancient prophets of the Old Testament.
	So rather than suggest that Jesus took his magic or whatever you want to call it, From the Egyptians, I find in history that it's quite the reverse.
	That the Egyptians, in fact, took their beliefs from, in fact, the ancient Hebrew traditions.
	What about Mary Magdalene, the point on that, her relationship with Jesus?
	Well, we must remember that in the second century AD, all of the books written by and about women were burned in open public fires in Greece by the Greeks and the Romans.
	We are many, many of the precious, wonderful, exciting documents that were written by and about women were lost at that moment in time, though the Romans had the presence of mind to keep a good copy in the Vatican basement.
	By the way, there are 17 miles of these documents in the Vatican basement to this day.
	We're referring specifically to Mary Magdalene.
	Mary Magdalene wrote a gospel where she does not mention her relationship with Jesus.
	However, there are many, many additional documents which do suggest that Mary Magdalene was, in fact, married to Jesus.
	As a matter of fact, the earliest histories of France under Charlemagne point to the fact that one of the offspring of Mary Magdalene and Jesus was, in fact, one of the original kings of France.
	And that is the legacy of Charlemagne to the world, which is hidden and kept secret by Christianity today.
	After the 8th century, when celibacy became the vogue for the clergy, all references to the marriages of the apostles, of which most of them were in fact married and had progeny, have all but disappeared or been destroyed, hidden, or banished into the exile of heresy.
	For us in our day and age, we have to remember that Jesus was a rabbi, and under Jewish law at that moment in time, all rabbis had to be married.
	It wasn't custom, it was law.
	Was he a parasitic rabbi, or a saducitic?
	Or was he part of an Essenes cult?
	I don't think that he was a part of any of them.
	He was the most independent character.
	He was the James Dean of his day.
	Pardon for the irreverent reference there.
	But he prided himself in being a part of all of the movements, and there are many, many stories where foreign dignitaries from very alien or distant foreign religious sects would come into town, and he would be the first who would sit with them, greet them, talk with them, welcome them as brothers, and speak with them when his own people, the rabbinical community at that moment in time, Wouldn't have tolerated them, talked to them, or given them any credence.
	Jesus was the most eclectic person in history, was the lover of people, and perhaps, in Art's words, in a macrocosmic perspective, was in fact the Lord of the entire world and not just the chosen Jews.
	Okay.
	Jesus is referred to as the Son of Mary in the Gospels that we have.
	Is that odd that he would be referred to as the son of Mary since tradition in the Jewish traditions would have said that the lineage would have followed the patriarchy?
	It should have said something, Jesus was the son of Joseph.
	Mary and Joseph were cousins so there's not a great deal of distance between the two.
	Mary is also referred to as the Mary of James because of her relationship with Joseph's younger son from a previous marriage.
	James, if it hadn't have been for Jesus, we would have been speaking more loudly and prolifically in our day and time about James, because of the tremendous influence and contribution of Jesus' older brother.
	So, the way we refer to things oftentimes leads us to think that those are the only ways that they were referred to, and that is not true.
	Onward we go.
	Wild Cloud Line, you're on the air with Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	Good morning, where are you please?
	Hi Art, this is Ed from Madison, Wisconsin.
	Yes sir.
	Dr. Kimball, I'm glad to talk to you.
	I wanted to ask you, have you ever read the Essene Gospel of Peace?
	I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
	Have you ever read the book, the Essene Gospel of Peace?
	Yes.
	Do the words in there, in the Essene Gospel of Peace, strike you as sounding like something that you'd expect Jesus to say?
	Well, many of the extra-biblical words of Jesus, first of all, don't enjoy the translations into English that our Bible has undergone over a millennium period of time.
	Jesus often spoke of the fact that He did not come into the world to bring peace, He came in to bring chaos in His own day and age.
	Part of the reasons why we do not have the actual writings of Jesus in the Bible today, though they have survived into our day, you'd think that The book written by Jesus would be included in the Bible, for heaven's sake, but they are not.
	The reason is because oftentimes he wrote very satirically, very critically of the future
	and of the present in which he lived.
	Much of the language Jesus might have used might have sounded critical and harsh.
	The reason I bring that up is there is such a strong emphasis on what people would call
	today a miraculous restoring of the health in there.
	I know that Art has someone close to him that is suffering from cancer right now.
	I know he has had Dr. Larian Day on the show in the past.
	I was wondering perhaps of the relevance of the Essene Gospel of Peace and some of its
	dietary things on anyone that is either sick or suffering from disease, if you could comment
	on that.
	It is such a wonderful question.
	In fact, the great Messiah Ben-Judah, who was in the 2,000-year-old prophecies about the coming of the Messiah, said that the great Messiah Ben-Judah would be a healer.
	In fact, the word Jesus means healer.
	That's such a wonderful question.
	Part of the ministry of Jesus was not only a healing of the mind, but also of the body.
	And the miracles that he performed, it's ludicrous to think that they only existed toward the end of his life.
	The healings of Jesus is extended throughout his whole life, extended far beyond the borders of Palestine.
	And when we talk about a macrocosmic picture of Jesus and a verification of that macrocosmic picture, we just have to track the path of the healings and we would see the footprints of the raising of the dead and the healing of the sick.
	Throughout many cultures and traditions where the mortal ministry of Jesus still survives in documents that exist in our day.
	Nagar, just curious, you have not come upon a book recently called The Miracle Strain by Michael Cordy, have you?
	Yes, I have.
	Have you read that?
	I have not read it all, no.
	I've got a copy.
	Okay, well I recommend you dig in first opportunity.
	I think you'll find it fascinating.
	I shall indeed.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Hey, I just wanted to thank Dr. Kimball and commend him for coming on the radio and talking about what he believes is right and what he believes is what happened.
	I think that that's awesome.
	Thank you.
	Art, as we all know, not everybody agrees with everybody.
	As a Christian, as a Baptist Christian, and I know that he's from Alaska, so I'm sure you know of Jerry Prevost.
	Yes.
	And ABT.
	You know, I wish that maybe you could have him or maybe even Bob Larson on.
	So they could have their views.
	I mean, and just the contradiction.
	You know me, I'll have anybody on.
	Do you have a specific question for Dr. Kimball, though?
	Yes, I do.
	And I'm not being hateful, please don't take that.
	No, not to worry.
	I take it all very well.
	I don't mind putting anything on the air.
	And I just wanted to know, because these things are in the Bible, and as a little girl and growing up in the church, I always heard that you are not supposed to add anything to the Bible and that you're damned if you do.
	So do you feel like some of this stuff may be People look down upon?
	I mean, I'm just confused about it all, really.
	I think it's a wonderful question, and let's address it specifically.
	You're referring to the last verse in the book of Revelations, where John indicates that we should not add or delete these things, or there's a condemnation or a penalty associated with it.
	We must understand that the book of John, or the book of Revelations, was not placed into the Bible at the time of Jesus.
	It was placed 300 years later into the Bible, into that position.
	As a matter of fact, that very same comment is made earlier in the Bible, and if that were the case, then we should delete the New Testament entirely.
	So the positions, that comment referred to, do not add to my specific works, or delete from my specific works, but it clearly did not ever intend to be Apply to the Bible as an entire book, because it did not exist at the time that John wrote his book.
	The Bible did not exist as a collection of works.
	The Bible that we have in our hands today is an arbitrated document that was voted on by the Nicene Council, and clearly there were additional records that were excluded.
	In fact, the majority of the works were excluded from our text of the Bible, and I know that threatens some people's faith, but remember that The reason why we do not have the biography of Jesus, why it is missing, is because everyone wants to own Jesus.
	Everybody wants to own the saga.
	They want to be the only people who are right.
	And if Jesus left us a legacy of anything, it's that he could not be owned.
	And in fact, he loved us all equally as his children, and then he has intervened in the cultures around the world.
	I think if everybody would just take what you said to heart, then we would all just be happy.
	Well, I think you're a delightful person, and I appreciate the question.
	Thank you.
	Oh, and Art Bell, I just want you to know that we pray for you every night, that whatever this dilemma is that you have, that it is resolved, and that it gets better.
	Well, it's part of life.
	Life is a journey, and believe me, I'm having an interesting journey.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Glenn Kimball.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Dr. Kimball?
	Yes.
	Hi.
	I was wondering if you could go over some of the prophecy of Daniel.
	The prophecy of Daniel is 72 weeks.
	Yes, because I think that's a pretty powerful prophecy, you know, stating that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the Son of God.
	Actually, Daniel is probably, he and Micah are the premier authors of the Messiah text.
	And by the way, much of the works of Daniel are not located in the Bible currently.
	Many of the books that they wrote, much of the prophecy, in fact the majority of the
	prophecies that they actually wrote are not contained within the canon themselves.
	For example, the prophecies about the coming of the Messiah are not clearly in the Bible.
	The Star of Bethlehem, which obviously was delineated by Daniel, that prophecy is missing
	from the Bible, and yet Daniel clearly wrote about the coming of the Messiah, that he would
	be born in Bethlehem, that the Star of Bethlehem would in fact be the merger of Jupiter and
	Saturn in the constellation of Pisces, and that's why Christianity uses the symbol of
	the fish for the first 200 years of its existence.
	Doctor, we're so woefully short on time.
	With regard to the star of Bethlehem, though, you've suggested that we could go back mathematically, do it on the internet, and figure out when that conjunction occurred.
	Then, should we not be able to project mathematically forward in the same manner and find out when that conjunction will next occur?
	Yes.
	When would that be?
	I don't know.
	I haven't done the math yet.
	It would seem to be an interesting project for somebody, wouldn't you say?
	I would agree entirely.
	I'd love to see it.
	When they do it, let me know.
	I want to be there.
	Doctor, it has been such a pleasure having you on the program, but it appears to be over.
	We're out of time.
	We will absolutely have you back.
	You are not a one program guest by a long shot.
	There's simply too much to do and not enough time to do it in, so we'll have you back.
	Thank you very much, Art.
	It's been an honor.
	It's been an honor for me as well, and come to your website and visit me, and let's do it again.
	Thank you, sir.
	Good night now.
	Good night.
	That's Dr. Glenn Kimball, and we're simply out of time.

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