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Nov. 6, 1998 - Art Bell

01:16:00

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ancient Astronauts - Eric Von Daniken

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be in this great cosmos, this greater Earth of ours.
		Actually, this program stretching from the Hawaiian and Technic Islands out west eastward to the Caribbean, south, into South America, north, all the way to the Pole.
		That's commercially.
		And then worldwide on broadcast.com.
		Thank you, Broadcast.com.
		This show is close to close a.m. and I'm Art Bell, and it's great to be here Friday night, Saturday morning.
		Always a very strange show.
		Tonight, a man I have heard about all my life, but I have never interviewed, never spoken with, and I have never heard him speak.
		Eric von Doniken.
		His latest, The Arrival of the Gods.
		Remember, Chariots of the Gods, of course.
		Now Arrival of the Gods, and we'll talk with Eric von Doniken if all goes well.
		Next hour.
		All right, in a moment, as promised, Eric von Doniken, author of originally, of course, Chariots of the Gods.
		Chariots of the Gods.
		And now, kind of an update.
		The arrival of the gods.
		Interested?
		Eric von Doniken coming up next.
		First discovered in 1927, the origins of the massive earth etchings at Nazca.
		I in the remote deserts of Peru have for years puzzled archaeologists, until now, that is.
		Eric von Doniken, author of the Bess On Chariots of the Gods and over 20 other books on unsolved phenomena, recently uncovered startling new evidence on the riddle of Nazca in Rival of the Gods.
		Arrival of the Gods, I said.
		He exclusively reveals his story about the mile-long landing strips, vivid etchings of people, birds, and animals, and the immense geometric designs.
		This extraordinary book begins with the history of the theories of Nazga's origins and purposes.
		Then, using over 140 integrated photographs, specially designed maps, models, and drawings, von Donagen begins to explain his solution to one of our planet's greatest enigmas.
		Eric von Donagen was born in Switzerland in 1935.
		And, of course, his first book, Chariots of the Gods, published in 1968, became a bestseller in 38 countries.
		His 21 titles have sold more than 55 million copies worldwide.
		And here from New Hampshire is Eric Van Doniken.
		Eric, welcome to the show.
unidentified		Well, I'm happy to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you.
		Ever since I was relatively small, I've been hearing about you and hearing about you and hearing about you, and here I am talking to you.
		What an honor.
unidentified		Well, it's great an honor for me to talk with such a celebrity like our belt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Celebrity?
		I'm not a celebrity.
		They're giving me the purple melted candle award or something.
		You know the Sysop people?
		Have you ever hear of them?
unidentified		No, not yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Skeptical Inquirer?
unidentified		Oh, of course, I know of them.
unidentified		We have them in Europe, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
unidentified		Well, to me, it's just a group of conservative believers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, conservative believers is very kind indeed.
		All right.
		Let's go back, I guess, to your first book, because we've got to lay the foundation for the second book.
		And I'm sure you've talked about this a million times over, Chariots of the Gods.
		Its basic contention is there are long landing strips in Peru and elsewhere, where you believe there is evidence that at an earlier time in Earth's history, there were ancient astronauts who visited us.
		When do you believe that occurred?
unidentified		Well, that's a good question because there is no answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No answer.
unidentified		I am familiar, very, very familiar, with the holy text of ancient India.
		And in ancient India text, you really can read that long, long time ago, and with long time ago they mean at least 6000 BC, gigantic ships, cities surrounded the Earth in an orbit.
		And from these cities, smaller vehicles have come down to Earth.
		The old Indians call these smaller vehicles the Vimanas.
		And they describe very precisely different types of Vimanas.
		And I really suggest that one type of Vimana once made a landing in Natsuka.
		Well, Natsca is in Peru.
		It's about 500 kilometers south of Lima.
		Now the question, of course, comes up, why, for good sake, should somebody land in the desert in Natsca?
		Well, Natsca still today is full of raw material, like minerals of all kind, including gold and silver.
		Still today, around Natsuka and on the desert of Natska, some digging is going on.
		So this could have well been an idea why extraterrestrials made a landing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they wanted our resources, our minerals.
unidentified		That's the idea.
		Now, of course, I was always aware that an extraterrestrial spaceship would not need a landing strip because they have other technologies.
		But it doesn't matter with what technology they have come down.
		In any case, they would leave traces behind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
unidentified		I mean, if I drive with my car in Jeep, then my wheels would leave traces behind.
		So these extraterrestrials, they left traces, they did their job, they did their digging and whatever, and they were observed by the natives.
		And the natives, at that time, they did not understand what was going on, so they believed that these extraterrestrials must be some gods.
		Now, of course, we all know that there are no gods, but they believe that these must be some gods.
		And after the gods have left the plain of Natska again, now the crowd starts, and only now, not before.
		Now the Natives start to imitate, to copy what they saw, what the gods did.
		And now they construct gigantic lines to the east, north, west, and south, long lines, small lines, airstrip blocking lines, and also figures and geometrical patterns so that the gods should return again.
		They wish to have their visit again on earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you believe all of this occurred at least 6,000 years before Christ?
unidentified		Yes and no.
		The 6,000 years figure stems from the old Indian literature.
		But it has occurred to me during my research in the past 40 years that we must have been visited from outer space at least two times, if not three times.
		Now the dating in Natsuka itself is very controversial.
		The oldest dating which we have found so far goes back 1400 BC, but the youngest is 800 DC.
		So between 1400 BC and 800 BC, there's quite a big lap of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In one of your older books, Gold of the Gods, you described going to an area in South America where there was a giant ancient cave.
		This cave or tunnel, you seem to say, was carved out of the earth by some device that used great heat to melt and fuse the surface of the walls.
		One of the rooms was said to be about the size of a football stadium, I believe.
		And it's been a long time, but one question that comes to mind is what happened there and why has nothing more been said about that?
		Have you done any further research?
unidentified		Yes and no.
		After my publication, In The Gold of the God, I was first criticized worldwide, but I was crashed down completely.
		And I have to admit, there were quite some misunderstandings between myself and some of the journalists, because I had published in the book one entry to the subterranean world, in which entry I was not in person, but I was in another entry to the same subterranean tunnel system.
		And it was simply an agreement then between the discoverer, Hungarian with the name of Juan Moritz, and myself that I should not name the real entry so that not everyone can simply go in there, you know, and make diggings and steal something.
		Now, since that time, more than 20 years have passed, and I was in Ecuador several times.
		The last time it was about three years ago, where I had a public speech in Quito, in Ecuador.
		And all these gigantic things like the metallic library, which I once saw with my own eyes, they are not in the same cage anymore.
		But in the meantime, another researcher, a native of Ecuador, his name is Stanley Hall, and he originated from Scotland.
		He is living up there now because he's married with an Ecuadorian, has many children.
		Now, this Mr. Stanley Hall, he rediscovered the same object which I was talking 20 years ago, but this time in another cave.
		And Stanley Hall is just trying to publish his own manuscript on the subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there are many people who believe if, in fact, ancient astronauts or extraterrestrials landed, there should be some sort of artifacts left over aside from runways.
		There should be some sort of technical devices or something that would be uncovered that would tend to prove this.
		What do you say to that?
unidentified		I absolutely agree.
		It would perfectly make sense that they left something on Earth.
		Now we have to differentiate between two possibilities.
		The one object could be simple tools, let's say a hammer or a screwdriver or just simple things.
		Now this kind of tool naturally rusts and during the centuries or the thousands of years is destroyed.
		The other possibility is that they left something on purpose, something like a present for mankind.
		And here I believe we have these things.
		The problem is just we cannot go through.
		Look, we know for example that the Ark of the Covenant, handed down in the Bible, existed once.
		And we know that the Ark of the Covenant was an object from God, as it is called in the Bible.
		Now, it was something technical.
		And we know exactly from the old literature, especially from the Tibetan holy books, the so-called Kebra Neges, where the rest of the Ark of the Covenant are today, in the Ethiopian city of Aksum, deep beneath under the cathedral of the Virgin Mary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where it is being very, very carefully guarded with people with guns.
unidentified		How do you know that?
		Well.
		Okay.
		So, of course, I was there, and of course I tried to make a digging, but this is impossible in practice because it's a holy place.
		You would never receive a permission to do anything there in practice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So it might be that we have, with the example of the Ark of the Covenant, some extraterrestrial object left on this planet, but because of our religious belief, it is practically not possible to go there.
		And this is only one example.
		I have more of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, Eric, that the God of the Bible is actually the God of space?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The gods that came from space?
unidentified		I myself, I'm a deep believer in God.
		I have never lost my God.
		I am one of these persons who still pray to God.
		But when I was a young boy, I was born I was educated in Switzerland in a boarding school.
		It was a strict Catholic school led by Jesuits.
		And there we had to make translations from part of the Bible, Greek to Latin, Latin to German.
		And when you make these translations, you sooner or later realize that they do not speak about the almighty, timeless, omnipotent God.
		They do speak about someone different.
		I mean, you take a prophet like Ezekiel in the Old Testament.
		He describes the noise he hears.
		He describes the wings.
		He describes the legs.
		He describes everything of something technical.
		Now, my God, whom I believe in, does not need to have any vehicle in which to move around with smoke and fire and loud noise and so on.
		So if it's not God they were describing some thousands of years ago, who is left?
		Sooner or later you came up with the question of extraterrestrials.
		But God still is something different.
		God is what we call the creation, the spirit of the universe.
		This is not comparable with the extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you believe if we were to be able to open the Ark of the Covenant, something I would not personally do, but somebody could do that we would find a technological device.
unidentified		We didn't even have to open it.
		We just have to find it and to make measurements.
		You know, that will be enough to realize that this is something which is not from this planet.
		Look, in old Capein, about 800 BC, the first Japanese emperor, he believed himself, or he said about himself, he was one of the sons of these gods.
		So he was a child of the extraterrestrial.
		And he said that from his father, from his heavenly father, he received a sort of mirror.
		And with this mirror, it was possible that he could see what happened all over the thousands of islands in the Pacific Ocean.
		Now, when this emperor died, this mirror was buried with him in a tomb.
		And this tomb still exists, and the mirror is still in there.
		Now, what mirror is this?
		The problem is you cannot go there, comparable to the Ark of the Covenant, because it's a holy place of the Shinto religion.
		And they do not allow to examine this mirror.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that these extraterrestrials who were here did more than just dig for gold and other minerals?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that they tampered with the early human beings who were here, in fact, changing our course genetically or in some other way?
unidentified		This is one of the old theories of mine.
		And as older I became, in the meantime, I'm 63.
		I'm absolutely sure about this.
		On the one hand, we have evolution, and evolution tries to explain everything.
		Of course, we came from the family tribe of ape.
		There is no doubt we can prove this.
		But we are the only intelligent being on Earth.
		Now we do not have time to make a definition of intelligence, but intelligence means also religion, means curiosity, means arts, means painting, means music, and so on.
		So we are the only intelligent being on this planet.
		Now evolution explains this just as coincidence.
		It was selection, mutation, and so on.
		But the old holy scriptures on earth and every holy scripture, the olden, they say the gods created man according their own image.
		Now with our today's genetical knowledge, this makes perfectly sense.
		Just imagine an extraterrestrial crew arrives on this planet.
		They realize the planet is full of life.
		Now they chose one most advanced form of life, which was one of our primitive forefathers, so to say Neanderthal man.
		From this one, they simply take a cell and in the cell they make a genetical change.
		They change the basic in the DNA.
		What we are doing every day.
		Now the cell grows in a liquid of nourishing.
		Now after a certain time they plant the cell into the womb of a female of the same species.
		The female will give birth to a child.
		Of course the child has the evolution, I mean the bones and the skeleton and everything of the family.
		But because of this artificial mutation, the child has something new which the rest of the family tree doesn't.
		Now as soon as you want to have a new population, you need two of them, female and male.
		And what happened?
		You land in the legend of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's hold it right there.
		It is the bottom of the hour.
		Eric von Doniken is my guest.
		And so the genetically changed two would be Adam and Eve.
		And from them has come all that we now know.
		We'll be back in just a moment.
		I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my guest, Eric von Doniken, were we visited, perhaps, thousands of years before Christ, by people in big ships who needed big landing strips, people who made just a little change in some DNA,
		creating what we now think of and know of as Adam and Eve and the beginning of mankind, modern as we know it now, changed from the apes.
		We'll take off from that point in just a moment.
		We'll be right back.
		Well, I have a question for Mr. Von Doniken.
		Eric, if evolution is in fact an ongoing, you know, an ongoing process, then why do we not occasionally see an ape who makes a leap and begins to speak or begins to do something that would indicate that the process of evolution is continuing now?
unidentified		Well, sometimes we have apes who do this, but then they are educated in our zoological gardens or they are copying men from themselves.
unidentified		They are not doing things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
		Precisely.
		That's my point.
		And shouldn't they be if the process of evolution that produced us, which is what we are taught in school, results, you know, from an ape to a human being, then we should occasionally see apes not just mimicking us, but beginning to acquire skills and do things that apes don't normally do.
unidentified		Yes, but they don't do this in nature.
		They are just, as you said, they are imitating something and doing it.
		I mean, if you have a bird who is coming out from the jungle and the bird speaks, then you would say this is not normal.
		Who taught him to speak?
		Who learned him to speak?
		Just because he speaks, there was somebody behind it.
		Now, because we are intelligent, because we have developed scientific curiosity, because we have developed culture and so on, there was something behind it.
		Now, of course, you could go on and say, all right, if we accept the speculation that somebody visited Earth thousands of years ago and that somebody even created the intelligence of human beings, how did this somebody get intelligent?
		Now, again, you could go on and say this somebody was visited again by another somebody.
		Now you have enough time in the universe and finally maybe after billions and billions of years, you would accept here we have God, here we have creation.
		So you never lose the concept or the idea of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly makes sense to me.
		And in fact, there is very, very little difference between the genetic makeup of an ape and a man.
		Very little difference.
		Just a little bit of difference, the scientists say.
		And you maintain that difference was, in fact, engineered by people from elsewhere.
unidentified		Precisely.
		This is at least what the holy texts in antiquity say.
		Including the Bible, they say, and God created man after their own image.
		Now in the Bible, God is used as a singular.
		But the reality, the Hebrew original, and I know Hebrew, the reality speaks about Elohim.
		And Elohim in Hebrew is a plural.
		So you should translate, the gods created man after their own image.
		Okay, which gods?
		Who created man?
		Now, if we would have such answers only in the Bible, I would not talk about it.
		But soon as you know the other old religions like Hindu religion, Central American religion, there all over you find the same story.
		And this was not just an invention of some stupid ancestor of us.
		It was at some time a knowledge which everyone had.
		The gods made us intelligent.
		The question is just what gods?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What gods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another question would be, why?
unidentified		Why?
		That's a very good question.
		That's probably the most intelligent one.
		In my 63 years of life, I and my friends and my colleagues in so many discussions, we have asked the same question.
		Why?
		Until today, we have about 28 possible answers.
		One of them is the following.
		Let us assume that somewhere in the universe there was the first intelligent form of life.
		Now we could start again, how have they evolved?
		We don't know.
		But we have to start somewhere.
		So let's call this first form of intelligence number one.
		So number one is intelligent.
		Intelligent means to have curiosity.
		Curiosity means automatically.
		They have to ask themselves, are they alone in the universe?
		Are there others?
		So they try to find out, in the beginning with radio astronomical methods, to find out if they are alone or not.
		Soon as they have no answer, there is no way they have to go out to find if they are alone or not.
		Now, they may have the following system.
		We look at other solar systems.
		On other solar systems, we look for planets who are close to the planet of number one, which means not too hot and not too cold.
		Soon as we find such a planet, we have to look for life.
		If there is no life at all, we spread it out, we create life, which is easy by meaning of bacterias or something like this.
		If, on the other hand, life exists already, they have to differentiate if life is intelligent or not.
		If life is intelligent, then the question is easy, because with intelligent life, you can discuss, you can get into information.
		Soon as life is not intelligent, then you take the most advanced form and you change it by genetic means into an intelligent form of life.
		By doing this, sooner or later you create in a certain part of the Milky Way in space and time similar beings with which you can talk, you can change information.
		And by changing information, this helps your curiosity because you want to find out everything about the universe, the beginning, the end, and so on.
		If you would just live in a splendid isolation somewhere as number one, then you have no chance to find out the answers.
		You need more forms of intelligent life spread out in time and space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, well, let us assume Then there was a number one, and that they have been going about the cosmos seeding life wherever they are able to do so, finding a reasonable planet and a reasonable sun.
		Therefore, there should be by now, oh, I don't know, thousands or tens of thousands or even millions of life forms out there at some form or degree of intelligence.
		Yes?
unidentified		Yes, I fully agree.
unidentified		That's absolutely the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have had, despite some recent very exciting hoaxes, we still have not received a signal from any other one of those numbers out there anywhere, and we've done quite a bit of looking.
unidentified		That's true, at least as long as we know it from our sciences, from the astronomy.
		Now, we have on this planet Earth billions and billions of ants.
		We have ants in Switzerland, we have ants in South America, we have ants all over the world, and different types of ants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we have bad ants here in the desert red ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They really sting.
unidentified		Now, does one colony of ants have contact with another colony of ants?
		I don't know.
		Does the Swiss ants have any contacts with the South American ants?
		All through there are billions and billions of them.
		No.
		If a man like me, I would go to an ant hill, and I would be very charming and I take one small ant out and put it in a little glass.
		And then I go in my home and put this ant on my table and I photograph it.
		And then, because I'm a nice guy, I put the ant back in the glass.
		I go back to the same ant hill and I push the anthill again into the other animals.
		Now, this specific ant would run around the ant hill and would say, I was abducted by an extra ant form of life.
		And the family of ants would say, there is no extra ant form of life.
		We are unique in this ant hill.
		Now, even if a man like me would stand very close to the ant hill and the ant would scrap on my shoes, they could not realize that I, human being, a little bit intelligent, exist.
		They would not realize my existence also and here.
		So maybe the extraterrestrials are closer than we think.
		We don't see them.
		We are in a kind of other dimension.
		We don't realize that there are many of them out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What about this possibility, Eric, that instead of it being in the past as you have suggested, you instead are foretelling the future.
		That in fact we are all alone.
		We are number one.
unidentified		Well, if I accept this, then at the same time, I have to dismiss all the proofs in old Holi writings and in facts on this planet that we were visited.
		Because the facts are here before our eyes, and if you look at it, really, you cannot deny these facts.
		So if I deny this fact, then I'm a scientific stupid.
		You know, then I'm not honest, not seeing the facts.
		No, because the facts are here, we have to say to ourselves, there must be something out there.
		You know, sometimes I have the following imagination.
		I see two sorts of human beings on this planet.
		The one sort is educated religiously, and they are sure that God created everything, and on the sixth day, He created us.
		We are the crown of creation.
		The other sort of human being are more or less scientifically educated.
		They know everything about evolution, and they say to themselves, okay, but on the top of evolution, that's us.
		Now, in both cases, if we take us at the crown of creation or the top of evolution, we are the unique ones.
		We are something absolutely unique in the universe.
		We look down at our neighbor and we do not want extraterrestrials.
		It's a psychological problem because if these extraterrestrials exist, they would cut our uniqueness.
		So I have the feeling sometimes mankind is not right for extraterrestrials.
		They are still too self-selfish or self-centered, egocentric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Self-centered, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe, as you look about the planet now and you look at the environmental problems we have and the social problems and the economic problems, do you believe that we will last long enough for those who created us to consider us worthy to come back and visit with?
unidentified		Of course we will.
		I mean, we had terrible problems in history, and I know a lot of histories.
		And we had destructions and we had terrible wars and so on.
		And of course we have all these problems which you just mentioned.
		We have problems with pollution and all this.
		It would be ignorant to ignore these things.
		But at the same time, we have an intelligence.
		We are intelligent.
		We see the problems.
		And of course, we will solve these problems.
		And sooner or later, we have no alternatives.
		We will go out into the universe.
		We have already started with a little step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With a little step.
		Yes, indeed.
		A little step.
		Actually, we went to the moon, we came back, and we have gone nowhere of substance since then.
		The space program has been very stagnant.
unidentified		Well, that was a political problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and maybe an economic one, too.
unidentified		Yeah, well, political and economics are linked together in this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that, as many think, as was depicted in 2001, that when we do get to a certain point, there will be an obelisk or there will be something that will signal those who put us here that we have evolved?
unidentified		It would make sense.
		The first thing I would expect is some sort of thousand years old satellite somewhere in our solar system running around and waiting to be detected.
		And then we have theoretically a small possibility that we find something on the moon, something artificial I mean, and later on Mars.
		Now we have already been on the moon and the surface of the moon was photographed very perf perfectly.
		To my knowledge, they found nothing extraordinary.
		So maybe the proof is out there on Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or as in 2001, it may lay below the surface of the moon.
unidentified		Why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
unidentified		In this theory, everything is possible.
		And this is what makes it fascinating.
		I always repeat, because we are intelligent, we will find it.
		We have no way out.
		We will find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the best evidence that they were here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think most people listening have seen the photographs of what are said to be runways.
unidentified		Well, you ask for the best evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Best evidence.
unidentified		I differentiate between best evidences in old holy scriptures and in facts.
		In old holy scriptures, we have the Hindu mythologies, which are very precise.
		It's not the question of translation.
		And also part of the book of Enoch.
		Enoch was a prophet before the great flood, and there is a book of Enoch.
		It's not in the Bible.
		It's part of the apocryphic text.
		And there, Enoch, in the I form in the first person, explains us what happened at his time.
		That these 200 beings descended and so on.
		So this is Holy Scripture.
		Going back to the facts, the optical view in Palenque.
		Palenque is in Mexico.
		And there is a pyramid called the Temple of Inscription.
		And deep down under the Temple of Inscription, there is a big slab.
		It's a tombstone.
		3 meter 80 long, 2 meters 20 large, one big block, 10 tons heavy.
		And on this block, you see an incredible drawing.
		There is a man sitting there, bending forward and using his hands to manipulate some control on his heel, of his left foot is on a kind of pedal.
		He is inside a frame.
		Outside the frame, you see something like a linking flam coming out.
		So if you see this, and I know every scientific explanation to it, if you see this, you cannot deny any more extraterrestrials.
		And the second point, hard fact, is Natsuka.
		Natsuka in Peru, there we can speak about the next five hours if you wish.
		This is absolutely incredible, and everyone can see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, you have seen all of these things that you have just spoken of, right?
unidentified		Yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are so convinced, and there have been many television programs, of course, about these things, and you have been mentioned in many of them and your work.
		But generally, frankly, a lot of your, they've gone after you.
		I mean, they actually went after you personally to discredit you.
		And why do you think that would be if the evidence is so overwhelmingly clear?
unidentified		Well, first of all, it's a question of my person.
		In Chariots of the Gods, I have to admit I made mistakes and there were errors.
		When somebody writes as a young man, and I mean 30 years ago I was much younger than now, then you make errors.
		You are too enthusiastic and so on.
		In Chariots of the Gods, I had 238 question marks.
		Nobody realized the question marks.
		Now, I was attacked.
		I was crashed down, which is in a way because my writings are not published and presented in a scientific way.
		They are published in a popular way.
		But later on, all the new books we have now finally on the American market, like The Eyes of the Sphinx or The Arrival of the God, they are written and proven in a scientific manner, all through the style of writing is, of course, still popular.
		But every quotation has its file, has its number.
		Every picture is clear.
		So Eric von Deniken now is controllable and is not attackable as he was when he was a young man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you think because you did not do this as a PhD scientist and submit your paper to a university for peer review and go through the normal, arduous procedure and you did it in the popular forum, it was easy for them with a few mistakes made as a youth to destroy you.
unidentified		Oh, yes, it was easy.
		And it was my fault, of course.
		At least partly it was my fault.
		But I mean, someone becomes older and older, and he doesn't repeat the same mistakes he made 30 years ago.
		So I really suggest to the critics that they read one of my newest books and then start criticizing Eric von Denniken again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly what we're going to talk about when we come back, is one of your newest books, enticingly entitled The Arrival of the Gods.
		The Arrival of the Gods.
		So, indeed, we live in interesting times, as the Chinese have told us.
		I'm Mark Bell, and my guest is Eric von Doniken, author of Chariots of the Gods, which I presume the majority of you out there have read, but he's got a new book.
		This time, it's called The Arrival of the Gods.
		Somewhat tantalizing, eh?
		In a moment, we're going to get down to talking to Eric about what he means by arrival of the gods.
		Still referring to that which occurred?
		Or perhaps that which is about to occur?
		Sounds pretty good to me.
		All right.
		Eric von Nodeken, welcome back.
		Here we are again.
		Your new book is The Arrival of the Gods.
		Now, by that, do you mean the proof of the original arrival of the gods, or do you mean the return of the gods?
unidentified		Well, first of all, the original title is, of course, in German.
unidentified		And the German original says something completely different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does?
unidentified		The German title says signs for the gods.
		Now, because all my books in the English world, they have to do with the gods, so the American or English publisher felt we have to call it the arrival of the gods, which is not what the German title says.
		But it doesn't matter, finally, because I'm still convinced that these so-called gods will arrive sooner or later.
		Because in every great religion of our day, we have the expectation of someone to return.
		I mean, we as Christians, we wait the recoming of Christ.
		But as we know, the Jewish community, since long, long time, they are waiting the re-coming of their Messiah.
		And even the Muslimic society expects the returning of their Mahdi.
		Now, this is not the fact only in the big today living religion.
		It also happens in the small, small cults of the past.
		And my idea really is, if somebody was here from outer space thousands of years ago, and one day this somebody disappeared, he promised we will return in a faraway future.
		So it went into the legends, into the myths, and even into the great religions until today, and sooner or later they will arrive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we now close to that time, do you believe, or is it still far away?
unidentified		Nobody knows.
unidentified		I would love to know it, but there is no answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you look at what we do and think of us in the civilized world as number one, there are many number twos and threes and fours in the jungles of Brazil that have never before met number ones.
		And unfortunately, when they meet number ones, we usually destroy their culture quite quickly.
		What makes you think that a visit from number one would not now destroy our culture?
unidentified		Well, at least I hope that number one is intelligent enough and fair enough to act in a way which it will be fair to us too.
		I mean, if we, number one, go to the jungle and we find, let's say, a group of orangutans, as city-like beings, we will not disturb them.
		We will not destroy them.
		We will maybe study them from distances and we will be helpful to them.
		So I hope an extraterrestrial civilization who is able to reach the distances between the stars has enough culture to observe it in a similar way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're very optimistic because generally when we discover number twos and threes, we give them television, radio, guns, TNT, the ability to make roads and burn down the rainforest and so forth.
unidentified		Well, I hope we have learned from all this in the past, but in the future, we will do it in a better way because we see the result, what comes out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe there...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that is wishful thinking or that it could be true?
unidentified		First, I have to confess, although I'm still 63 years old, I never saw a UFO.
		Maybe I'm afraid that when Eric von Deniken shows up, they run away.
		But on the other hand, I know that in the UFO communities, there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense going around and a lot of belief and scepticism too.
		But still, we have some honorable, integral personalities on this planet who had, obviously, contact with extraterrestrials.
		So I have no alternative as to believe to these honest people that there is something out there which has been observed by them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are Swiss.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Billy Meyer is Swiss.
		Yes.
		Would you care to comment on the Billy Meyer case?
unidentified		Well, I don't trust Billy Meyer.
		Of course, I know him in person, but not very close.
		The last time I met him is about 20 years ago.
		And I do believe him that he had, in a certain time, a contact or that he saw something strange in the sky.
		But since then, he has created his own religion.
		And he's collecting money from his believers.
		And I think this is the wrong way to go and to speak about extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would like to take some questions from the audience, if you would be willing to do that.
		Of course.
		I'm sure they're very curious.
		So line one, first time caller line, actually.
		You're on the air with Eric von Doniken.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing, Ark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful.
unidentified		Dan from Cresline, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		California, all right?
unidentified		Yes, indeed.
		Well, Eric, I heard you talk about Ezekiel.
		And, well, many of the, in fact, all of the prophets in the Bible, when they speak of the visions they had, they're talking about things they saw in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, rather than things they walked outside their front door and saw.
		And your comment about the technical devices under that context is kind of moot to me.
		Can you comment?
		Well, the story of Ezekiel, I really have studied very thoroughly, and this in many languages.
		And also, as I said before, I'm a deep believer in God.
		I think that Ezekiel described something technical, not just a spiritual experience, because his descriptions are too precise.
		Not only what he says about the wings and the legs and the wheels and the noise he hears, not only this, but starting with chapter 42 in the book of Ezekiel, he gives exact descriptions and exact measurements of what he calls a temple.
		that's true.
		That's true, Eric.
		But if you look back, Moses received very, very, very, very detailed instructions for God on things he was to do in terms of preparing the law and all that.
		And you also have situations where many of the prophets were given very detailed instructions on what to do in these visions of the Holy Spirit.
		And, you know, Ezekiel is one of the most illustrious and visionary of the prophet.
		He presents some of the most beautiful and interesting visions in the Bible.
		But again, you know, all throughout the Bible, if you look, all these things were motivations of the Holy Spirit of God and not necessarily something any of these people walked out and looked at.
		Look at Noah.
		Noah didn't go out and look outside of his front door and find a letter in the mailbox telling him how to build the ark.
		God told him a vision that was motivated by the Holy Spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, he keeps using the phrase the Holy Spirit.
		And you would maintain that today, if a civilization that advanced came down, we would regard them now as gods, would we not, if they were sufficiently far ahead of us?
unidentified		Maybe we would even regard them as spirits.
		Because whenever a high technology comes together with a technology underdeveloped society, the underdeveloped would not understand, at least not in the beginning, what was going on.
		Now, the gentleman just mentioned Noah, and I think Noah is a very good example.
		We know, in fact, from the Bible, and not only from the Bible, because the Noah story you find older than the Bible in Sumerian descriptions.
		So it's not a biblical story in the beginning.
		The original is much older.
		But exactly there you find that a so-called God gives a warning to a man and he says to him, you must construct now a ship because this and this will happen.
		A certain slot will happen.
		Mankind will be destroyed.
		Now, as a believer in God, I do not think that the Almighty, timeless God, needs to make an experience and then to wait what the result is coming out.
		I mean, God, according to the Bible, created Adam and Eve.
		He created mankind and he saw it was good.
		So if it's good, why then he has to destroy the whole thing again if it was good from the beginning on?
		Why did he make a mistake?
		So it was not God in this case.
		It was extraterrestrial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure those in the religious community would say God perhaps made a mistake but gave us free will and we're the ones that screwed it up.
unidentified		Well in my opinion, in my belief, God is timeless.
		God is almighty.
		God is omnipresent and God never makes a mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air with Eric Von Doniken.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
unidentified		This is Chuck from Arlington, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Texas, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, and I heard Mr. Vondonikin say that he was Catholic.
		Yes, educated as a Catholic.
		Yeah, I was raised Catholic, too.
		And I was in high school, you know, going to Catholic school when I was reading your book.
		And I really caught a lot of flack from some of the teachers and the nuns.
		And I just wonder if the church has ever said anything to you about your writings and your ideas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever officially heard from the church?
unidentified		Well, officially not now.
		But inofficially a lot.
		Especially in the newspapers and the magazines which belong to a certain church.
		Or we had books on the world market against my books, in controversy of my books.
		Well, this is very normal.
		I have to accept this.
		And sometimes the publicity said, well, finally, this professor, doctor in archaeology, had the courage to attack Erich von Deniken.
		And later, some years later, I met the certain author in person, and it always turned out that he was not a professor in archaeology or whatever.
		He was always a minister or a priest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You, of course, are familiar with Zachariah Sitchin.
		Of course, but I know him very well.
		I've interviewed him several times and will again soon.
		How much of his belief in his work do you share?
unidentified		Well, a lot of it, but not everything.
		It's the same thing with him.
		I respect him.
		He's a great researcher, and he does translations from the Sumerian and the old Hebrews and so on.
		But his idea about the 12th planet, I would not subscribe.
		Because at least to our astronomical knowledge, it is not possible that the planet surrounds our sun in an orbit of 3,600 years.
		Because in such an orbit, it would be very, very cold out there.
		It would be very far away from the sun.
		And to our knowledge, there is no possibility to evolve life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you both believe that it began in roughly the same way, just simply not in exactly the same manner.
unidentified		Exactly, yes.
unidentified		I would crap this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric von Donneken.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm Jack Felly from Granville, Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Jack?
unidentified		Hey, I'd like to just say, Alright, I'm a former native Perunthian there, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There aren't many of those out there.
unidentified		Yeah, that's a fact.
		Anyways, it's an honor to talk to Mr. Von Doniken.
		And I was wondering his opinion.
		Now, I read a book by a French fellow published about the same time Charity of the Gods came out.
		And I can't think of what his name is, but he contends that the people that created the Nazca lines are coming back, Christmas of 99.
		What's your opinion on that?
		Well, I know of many French authors.
		In the past, about 30 years and 25 years ago, we had the two French scientists, Louis Povers and Jacques Pergier, who published a book with the time, The Morning of the Massitians, and later Robert Charoux, who was a friend of mine, also the author in the same direction.
		Now, concerning Natsuka, I don't know what they said, but in my newest book, I really come up with every scientific theory about Natsuka, and then I disprove each and every one and say, I'm sorry, this is not more than scientific rubbish.
		I have spent all together, maybe about eight months in Natsuka in the past 30 years.
		I was there last week again.
		I have made photographs in the mountains which have never been published.
		I have examined the lines and the so-called airstrips.
		And so, really, whatever has been said in the past is out.
		It's not possible.
		And still, Natska is the greatest mystery expected of the Great Pyramid in Egypt.
		It's the greatest mystery on earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eric, with all that you have seen over all this time and you believe to be true, do you, in some little part of your mind, still admit to yourself that you might be wrong?
unidentified		No and yes, both.
		Of course, I have learned in the past that I made errors.
		In my puzzle, there were quite some things which I always had to push away again, and that I had to learn from the critics to say, okay, Eric, here you are wrong.
		We have another, a better explanation which is more reasonable from the scientific point of view and so on.
		But generally spoken, definitely this planet was visited by demons from outer space and definitely they left mysteries behind them.
		And this point I can prove in the meantime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric von Doniken.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, is this me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
		Yes, indeed.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, I'm Karen from Norway, and I am in Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tucson, all right?
unidentified		Yes, very interesting program.
		Thank you.
		You were talking something about the Ark of the Covenant earlier on in your program.
		Yes.
		And I just want to say that I had the honor of meeting a biblical archaeologist, Ron Wyatt, a couple of years ago.
		And he was the finder of several things in the Middle East.
		Among them was also the Ark of the Covenant in Israel.
		And he said that when he exposed it down in these tunnels, he was blended by light, and he fainted like 45 minutes.
		And he also found the true Mount Sinai in which Moses went up and got his messages.
		And behind him on this video, there was two peaks.
		One ordinary colored, one was very black, like radiation.
		And I thought maybe I don't know if you've heard about this archaeologist, Ron Wyatt.
		No, not yet.
		He's a publication on the market.
		His publications are on the market.
		He's also got several videotapes.
		He found the Red Sea crossing point.
		He found the Mount Sinai, Noah's Ark.
		He's found incredible findings.
		And of course, for an archaeologist to find one site is wonderful.
		But when an archaeologist or any researcher finds too many truths, it becomes detrimental to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, the comment here might be, even though you are not familiar with this author, archaeologist, it's like the killing of our President Kennedy, Eric.
		There are so many theories now, so many conspiracy theories about who did it, how it happened, that if somebody were to come to a podium and stand up and say, here is the true story of Kennedy's death, and he were to tell the story, whatever it is, it would be just one more story.
		Even if it was absolutely true, we wouldn't see that.
		We would just hear one more story and add it onto the pile.
unidentified		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were very early, no doubt.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Eric von Doniken.
		Hello.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		I couldn't be more pleased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Boise, Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boise, all right.
		Turn your radio off, please.
		Okay.
unidentified		Turn that off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the way off.
unidentified		Got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		No, I still hear it.
		Now, there you go.
		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm really pleased to have Eric on tonight.
		One of your best guests ever, I think.
		Thank you.
		Pardon me?
		Thank you.
		Ah, quite welcome.
		I've been a fan of yours for over 20 years.
		Well, now read the newest books of mine.
		I certainly will do so.
		Eric, I had a question about some other, I believe it was one French author.
		And you kind of made an alluded to this at the beginning of the show regarding Ecuador.
		Yes.
		This was, I believe you wrote the introduction, and you were also in the storyline.
		It was written in a fictional form, but it was about the tunnels you were talking about.
		Yes, I know.
		Can you remember the name of the book?
		Of course.
		The day when the gods arrived.
		No, the day when the gods died.
		The day when the gods arrived.
		The gods died.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was the author?
unidentified		The author was a German Walter Elmsting is his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're going to have to hold it right there.
		Caller, hold on.
		If you have some follow-up you want to do, it's going to have to be after the break.
		It's the bottom of the hour already.
		Time does fly.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Eric von Donegan, and back to him we go.
		He's in New Hampshire, where it's very late, going on, I suppose, 4 o'clock in the morning now.
		Eric, I believe it is Sitchin who has said that he thinks that they came to make us into worker bees or worker ants, if you would like, to mine gold and to mine minerals for them.
		Do you subscribe to that?
unidentified		Well, I know this story and I don't agree here with Zachariah Sitchin.
		All true, according to the book of Enoch.
		Again, the book of Enoch was written before the great flood.
		It is not part of the Bible, it is part of the apocryphal text.
		And according to the book of Enoch, there was something like a mutary under the screw of the extraterrestrials.
		And one part of the crew disappeared again into the sky, and the other part stayed on earth.
		Now, it is possible that this part who stayed on earth had such silly things like slaves and so on.
		But this is not more than a speculation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly is true that we have a special place in our hearts for gold.
		And there is something very special to us still today, very special about gold, that it's hard to describe.
		But when you hold it and you feel it and you see it, and you feel the weight of gold and its color, there is something special to human beings about gold.
unidentified		Surely, because it's a unique metal.
		And even if the valor, you know, the bet, the value of gold changes from time to time, by the end of time, the value is always higher because it's unique.
		You cannot produce gold artificially.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true.
		All right.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Eric von Doniken.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Eric, first of all, I did want to congratulate you on the award and also on maintaining your ethics in pursuit of the truth.
		It's to be congratulated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		It's still in Boise, Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boise, Idaho.
		All right.
		Oh, that's right, of course.
unidentified		My 14-year-old likes listening to your show.
		Very good.
		And I was wondering up front, does Eric have any email or a website?
		Oh, sure, sure, I have.
		Take your pencil and write.
		It's www.aas-r-a.lrg.
		Okay, thank you.
		That's in Switzerland.
		And once you are in my website, you really can see everything because we have a new organization in Switzerland, the United States.
		I have a theme park coming, and so on.
		It's absolutely very well informated, this website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I heard about this theme park.
		Tell me about that.
		A theme park.
unidentified		Look, I know that we have many mysteries of the world.
		Nafka is one example, but there are other ones.
		Now, most of the people have neither money nor time to visit all these countries, to go into the jungle or to climb into the desert and so on.
		So if people can't go to the mysteries, Eric von Deniken brings the mystery to the people.
		Now, in Interlachen, that's where I live in Switzerland, in the center of the mountains, we will within the next four years construct a theme park which is called the Mysteries of the World.
		Now this will not be a sort of museum, you know, it will rather be something like an Epcot, very electronically, three-dimensional, absolutely sensational.
		And once you visited this park, you don't have answers at the end.
		You go out of the park with a head full of question marks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's normally the case.
		With most mysteries, they create more questions than they do answers, but it certainly is intriguing.
		That's really a good idea.
unidentified		And also what I said before, concerning this theme park, you read everything on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's on the website now.
unidentified		All right, on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
unidentified		www.aas-ra.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the dash, is that a straight dash or underscore?
unidentified		It's a straight dash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Straight dash.
		All right.
		Well, I'm sure that we've got a link on my website to yours right now.
unidentified		I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Eric Londonkin.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in rainy San Antonio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Antonio, Texas.
unidentified		Right.
		All right.
		It's an honor speaking with both of you.
		I read Chariots of the Gods when I was just learning how to read.
		And I'm very honored to be speaking with you, Mr. Van Donigan.
		I do know, I do have a theory that I heard regarding the Nazca lines.
		Yes.
		And that the old Indian shamans would take herbs and whatnot, and that would cause them to have out-of-body experiences.
		And this would, these lines and pathways created were not for alien beings, but for their astral beings to be able to find their way back to their bodies.
		I know the story.
		It was even produced in the TV, which was made by BDC in England.
		But it's one of the scientific theories, just one of the 15.
		And I personally don't believe in it because Natsuka is so real that the airstrips look really like airstrips.
		Then we have big geometrical figures on Natsuka.
		And these geometrical figures, they definitely have to do with the airstrips because they are linked together.
		And I don't believe the story of the shame concerning Natsuka.
		Although I know it's possible that people have out-of-body experiences.
		Right, because I've had them, and sometimes, you know, you end up feeling like you're almost getting lost, but somehow you find your way back.
		Never get lost.
		Right.
		Always find back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree with that.
		I have had one great out-of-body experience, and I didn't have to find my way back at all.
		I just snapped back.
		It was absolutely amazing.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric Von Doniken.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Columbus, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Chaos Capital of the Midwest.
		This is West speaking.
		Hails to Coyote, Falcotta.
		And Mr. Von Doniken, I got to tell you, I've never read your book.
		I'm going to go out and get it, and I'm going to read it, but I've watched the movie over and over and over again, and it's nothing short of awesome.
		I would love to be able to come and see the theme park one day.
		the question that I had, kind of in the same vein as the last caller, but a little bit different, is that the indigenous peoples there had shamanic beliefs in South America, Mexico in particular, the pyramid complex with the warrior women on top of the one pyramid there,
		and also Easter Island, that they were in possession of a mental capacity that we could never even begin to understand and making solid their imaginations and meditations.
		And these were the physical manifestations of those.
		Well, Natska is very, very real.
		All the signs, the figures, you know, in Natsuka we have, as I said in the beginning of the show, we have some figures of fishes, burgers, monkeys, spiders, and so on in the desert.
		They are made in such a gigantic way that they can be seen only from the air.
		Now, I do not exclude that such figures are made maybe for shamanistic ideas or out-of-body experiences.
		On the other hand, we have over 2,700 narrow lines, some of them who are over 20 kilometers long.
		And you have really airstrips.
		And I can prove it in my book.
		There are 150 pictures.
		The title is Arrival of the Gods.
		Also, gigantic geometrical figures.
		All this, in my eyes, has nothing to do with shamanistic experiences.
		I totally agree with you on that.
		I was going to ask you another question also.
		Were you in the plane when they were shooting the footage there over the Nazca Lides?
		Of course, of course.
		And it looks like a really rough surface, but if you could have, if it would have been smooth enough, would you have liked to have landed upon it?
		With great pleasure.
		But did you?
		Look, there is one of the airstrips, the so-called airstrips, which is 3.0 long.
		And today's pilots who drive, who fly tourists over the plain of Natsuka, they make a nearby landing over this line.
		They call it the ET Airport.
		Altogether, in the past 30 years, if I count it all together, I was at least eight months in total in Natska.
		And I have been flying an immendous time over Natsuka.
		I know it very well.
		Well, it was very much a pleasure to talk to you.
		I'm glad you're back, Art, and I hope you get everything worked out to the CPTs.
		Thank you very much.
		Thank you very much.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eric, who was Jesus?
unidentified		Well, that's a controversial story again.
		To the believers of Christianity, Jesus was the founder of our religion, and Jesus self saved, saved mankind from the original sin.
		That's the one part.
		That's the believer.
		I personally do not believe in this story.
		I believe Jesus was definitely on earth, but he was a human being.
		He was a wonderful, extremely great personality who created this new religion of love and so on.
		But he was not the Son of God because God has no sons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the miracles that are recorded that Jesus did?
unidentified		Well, if you know other religions, for example, you have miracles in Hindu temples also.
		You have miracles in some Muslimic temples.
		And I know about the miracles in the Christian world because I have a book on it.
		It's called, anyhow, it's an old book.
		It doesn't exist anymore.
		So I know there are miracles, but I can't answer the question, who made these miracles or how did it happen?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Eric von Doniken.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		This is Dan in Spokane, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spokane, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Art, I'd like to say I'm glad you're back.
		I felt sick to my stomach when I found out you were gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
unidentified		Because you're like the one true news source out there.
		I knew about El Niño a year before anybody else was talking about it.
		So I'm glad you're back.
		Thank you.
		And Mr. Vondonikan, it's an honor to speak to you.
		Thank you.
		Ever since before I could read, I was looking at your books and all the interesting pictures in there.
		But my question is, in doing a research for a college project, I had studied some Sumerian legends and several pre-Columbian legends.
		And even in biblical legends, I noticed that there are giants mentioned throughout all these different religions and legends spread throughout the world.
		And I was kind of wondering if there are any other archaeological finds that might indicate who these beings were.
		In other words, are there any other commonalities?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or anything about the nature of the petroglyphs, whatever you found down there, archaeological finds that would give us hints of what these beings were like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were they giants?
unidentified		Well, in anthropology, giants are not expected.
		They think that the bones were just the bones of giant orangutans or something.
		But in the literature, in the old literature, giants definitely do exist.
		Not only in the Bible, you have two references on giants.
		I mean, David, for example, was fighting against Goliath.
		Goliath was a giant.
		And other ones.
		Not only in the biblical literature, you find giants.
		You find them very, very precisely again in the book of Enoch.
		There, Enoch says that the extraterrestrials, of course he don't call them extraterrestrials, he calls them the guardians of the sky.
		That the extraterrestrials had sexual contact with females on this planet, and the result were giant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or Nephilim, perhaps.
unidentified		Or Nephilim, whatever.
		I don't want to make too much promotion for my book, but the book before the one which we are talking now is The Eyes of the Sphinx.
		It's a paperback.
		It's available, The Eyes of the Sphinx.
		And there I have a full chapter about the giants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're talking about the Sphinx and the pyramids, I was there a couple of years ago, and actually, not even a couple of years ago, less than that, and at Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you believe the Sphinx and the pyramids are?
unidentified		Well, it's a long story.
		We don't have enough time.
		But everyone knows our archaeological knowledge about the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid.
		It was constructed by a pharaoh with the name of Teops 2500 BC, and the Sphinx is the younger of this.
		But nobody knows in our Western hemisphere the old Arabian writers, the old Arabian historians like Abdulmas, Udi, etc.
		And they tell us a complete different story.
		The Arabians tell us it was before the Great Flood.
		Mankind was so primitive that men eat and drink together with the animals.
		Then the heavens opened and ships have come down from the heavens.
		Now out of these ships the teachers have descended.
		The teachers first installed schools and then they forced mankind to visit these schools.
		Finally they found out that one of the men was very intelligent.
		His name was Saurid.
		And they teached him how to write.
		And finally they took him with them away from earth in a fiery chariot.
		But before he left, he put all his writings into the Great Pyramid which he constructed.
		So according to Arabian historians, Zaurid is the constructor of the Great Pyramid and he left many secret chambers inside.
		And in these secret chambers, the mankind of the future should find the books of the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a prediction that was made by Edgar Casey that this information, this lost library of information would be found this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that we are close to finding it?
unidentified		Well, I think we know since a few years at least that a new secret was found in the Great Pyramid.
		You know, a little door was found in a secret chest.
		This was a German engineer who had the luck to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gantenbrich, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, Gudolf Gantenbrich.
		I know him very well.
		So we know at least that there is something more in the Great Pyramid than what we did believe until today.
		So we have to go on.
		But the whole story of all this, in every detail, I really had in my book, The Eyes of the Saints.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that if this information is uncovered, found, that it will be shared with the world or kept secret?
unidentified		In the beginning, it would be kept secret.
unidentified		Look, we have in astronomy a research which is called SETI, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And some radio astronomical stations are looking for signals from outer space.
		I know.
		Now, these SETI astronomers, they have something like a self-censorship among them.
		They say if someone really finds or hears signal, he does not go to public.
		First, he has to do a certain amount of research and talking with the politicians and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is what I believe, but I have interviewed people from SETI who say, no, that's not true.
		We would tell the world.
		It would get out on the Internet right away.
		Eric, we are...
unidentified		And I have the document in my book, The Return of the Guard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
		Now, I would very much like to see that document, so I guess I must read your book.
		Listen, we're at the end of the hour.
		You promised two hours.
		I could give you more if you wanted.
unidentified		Four o'clock.
unidentified		I really am dying for sleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dying for sleep.
		All right, well then, sleep it shall be.
		It has been a great honor, and I would like to do it again sometime.
unidentified		I would like to do it again, too.
unidentified		By the way, if people are near here, near Portsmouth in New Hampshire, Sunday afternoon, for the first time since 20 years, I give a public speech.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where is that again, please?
unidentified		This is Sunday afternoon at the Jochens Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
		All right.
		Well, I hope you get a big crowd.
		Eric.
unidentified		Lives and videos, and just great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eric, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Art Belt.
unidentified		You are the greatest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and good night.

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