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Nov. 3, 1998 - Art Bell
01:51:14
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Anti-Aging and How To Beat The Clock - Richard C. Hoagland - Dr. Ronald Klatz
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Outro Music From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, or whatever may be the case in your time zone.
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And worldwide on the internet, thankyoubroadcast.com.
This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
Great to be here.
...involves you personally.
How would you like to live forever?
Dr. Ronald Klatz is recognized as a leading authority in the new clinical science of anti-aging medicine.
He is the founder and the president of the American Longevity Research Institute, a not-for-profit foundation established in 1984, pioneered the exploration of new therapies for the treatment and prevention of age-related degenerative diseases, president of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, A scientific medical society which is exploring advances in biotechnology and preventative health care.
Dr. Klatz oversees educational programs for more than 4,300 physicians and scientists from 40 different countries.
Now this is a man who says we are on the edge of immortality.
This is a heavyweight in his field.
Dr. Klatz is a graduate of Florida Technological University in the College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery, Des Moines, Iowa, and is a board certified.
You know, I could go on and on and on like this.
His credentials are absolutely impeccable.
He's here tonight to talk about new technology.
The kind of stuff, by the way, Dr. Seed in Chicago is preceding And in a very interesting way, they kind of shut him down.
Dr. Seed said, well, then fine, I'll clone myself!
And I'll take my, I believe she's post-menstrual wife, and we'll co-cater with my Seed, the Seed of Seed.
And there'll be a new Seed, like the old Seed.
Anyway, this is beginning to sound like the election, so I'll be back in a moment with Dr. Klatz.
If I were to read about Dr. Klatz's qualifications, I'd be reading for, you know, the whole hour here, so I won't do that.
Suffice it to say, Dr. Klatz, the man you're about to hear, is a heavyweight in his field.
He is perhaps at the top of his game.
I'm sure he wouldn't refer to it as a game.
Dr. Klatz, welcome back to the program!
All right, it's my pleasure and I'm so happy that you're back on the air.
I'm happy to be here and you are near the, is it famous or infamous Dr. Seed in Chicago?
Well, I'm not quite sure yet.
He's certainly an interesting fellow and he's pushing the envelope and Dr. Seed is in fact here in Chicago and you're right, he's He's not taking no for an answer.
I thought his response was brilliant, actually.
I mean, they're not going to let him experiment on anybody else, but... You know, he said he was going to implant his... Perfectly free to do it with his children, that's for sure.
Yeah, and if his wife is going to go for it, then I guess there's going to be a new seed soon.
There might be.
He's also talking about setting up a research lab Outside the country, I believe, Mexico.
Where he's going to proceed with some of these technologies.
He's very excited, by the way, about some of the new research in cloning, because it's very interesting.
The research in cloning has a direct application to anti-aging medicine, because if you can clone a human, then you can reset all the cells of the body.
So the Hayflick constant, all the limitations to maximum lifespan, kind of go out the window.
No, wait a minute.
The what constant?
You know, in biology, we've talked for many years about the Hayflick constant.
Leonard Hayflick out in California did some interesting research back in the 60s, and what he showed was that, contrary to what was previously the thought at the time, that you can't keep a human cell or a mammalian cell reproducing ad infinitum.
That there was a certain preset limit to the amount of times a mammalian cell would duplicate, about 50 to 70 times depending on the cell.
So, what that meant was that there was a built-in limit to the lifespan of the organism.
Why?
In other words, why is there a specific limit on the number of reproductions?
Well, we understand now that the reason for the limit to reproduction is to protect the cells against cancer.
I mean, I don't know that nature sat down and said, oh, we want to protect the cells from cancer, but that was one of the... There are certain metabolic breaks that are built into the cell reproductive mechanism.
Okay, well, that might stand up, though, because as we live longer, there appears to be more cancer, right?
Yes, there is.
That's because our immune systems start to fail as we get older.
But the cell itself has certain pre-programmed limits into it.
And one's called M1, and interestingly, the second one's called M2.
And these limits of cell reproduction prevent the cell from reproducing on and on and on and on.
Interestingly, cancer cells don't have those limits.
And because of that, they can reproduce infinitely.
Now that's why cancer kills you, because the cells don't know when to stop and they just keep growing and growing and growing and cutting off, absorbing the blood supply and the nutrients for other cells and choking out the healthy cells.
Okay, but this is something you and I talked about last time and I said to you then and say to you now, in a way, The cancerous growth that kills us, if we could figure it out, would be what would keep us alive nearly indefinitely if we could get it under control.
That is true, and that's a very fertile area of research right now.
It has to do with telomerase, or these end pieces of DNA molecule, which apparently house at least one of the time clocks of aging.
And that these cells, as they get, you know, every time they reproduce, these telomeres at the end pieces of the DNA start to shorten a click at a time.
And after about 50 clicks or so, the cell suddenly says, oh, too many reproductions, I'm not going to reproduce anymore, or I'm going to slow down my reproductive rate.
Yeah.
So we're getting a handle on different drugs and different ways of kind of beating the clock of the cells of our body, and when we can do that, then we're talking about practical immortality.
I understand.
Here's a question that I'm almost certain you can't answer, but why do you think we were, in effect, designed, or evolved, or created, depending on what you believe, to only live such a short time?
I mean, a cosmic blink, we're here, and boom, we're gone.
Well, you know, there's a lot of different philosophy around the aspects of aging.
And I suppose the best explanation and the most prevalent explanation that's out there right now is that nature, when nature evolved man, nature really, well forget man, when nature evolves anything, nature is really not concerned about that creature after it reaches the age of sexual reproduction.
As long as you can reproduce sexually and cast your progeny into the future, that's when nature is done with you.
And so anything after that is like bonus time.
And so man was only really designed to live to be about 20 to 25 years of age.
And if you look back in the historic record, if you believe we've been on the planet for 2.2 million years, according to the common belief at least of the fossil record, Then for the first 2.1 million years, life expectancy was only 18 to 25 years of age.
Wow!
And it's only recently, only in the last few hundred years that we've lived any longer than that.
In the year 1800, for example, average lifespan in the U.S.
was only 25 years of age.
So that doesn't mean that people didn't live longer.
But the majority of people certainly did not.
What generally killed them?
I mean, not certainly classical age, but disease and... Well, mostly infectious disease.
There you are.
Infectious disease and poor nutrition.
I mean, you got ill back then.
It wasn't like going to the pharmacy and getting some erythromycin or some Mevacor or whatever.
You know, certainly we didn't have treatments for heart disease.
We didn't have treatments for most anything.
So we're fooling Mother Nature, really?
Oh, absolutely.
And we're doing a good job of it.
I'm hoping we're going to do an even better job of it.
And that's why the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine came into being.
1993, we started with 12 docs.
We're up to almost 6,000 doctors now in 44 countries around the world.
That's a lot of you.
And it certainly is.
I mean, it's enough doctors so that the scientific world has to take anti-aging seriously for the first time in history.
There's this natural bias against the message of immortality or the message of longevity.
How do you feel about it?
Personally.
Now, if you suddenly had the opportunity to live on to, I don't know, hundreds of years, or even immortality itself, barring physical catastrophe, would you opt to do that?
Oh, why do you think I'm President of the Society?
I want to be first in line!
But there would be potentially some downsides to it, wouldn't there?
I mean, yes, most of us, I guess, would opt to stay alive, but there might come a time when people would opt, you know, get bored with it or something.
Well, yes, and that's really what anti-aging medicine, I think, philosophically is all about.
It's about having the opportunity to live your life as fully and completely as is as is possible. It's really, many of us believe that anti-aging
medicine is about freedom.
It's the ultimate freedom. It's about the freedom to choose your destiny in the world,
at least your health care destiny, and not to be sidelined by something as foolish as
a cancer or a heart attack or a stroke or diabetes. I mean, you know, these are relatively
Our grandparents, you know, were dropping over dead from diarrhea and dysentery and tuberculosis and smallpox and polio.
And now anyone who gets that, it's kind of like, it's such an anachronism.
It's almost unbelievable.
It's almost unheard of.
You know, and probably even ourselves, most of the people who are listening to this, the
Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine is predicting that 50% of the baby boomers who are alive
today will see their 100th birthday and be on in excellent health, but our children certainly
will think of heart disease, cancer, and diabetes and stroke as anachronisms.
So anti-aging medicine is about having that freedom to live your life free from the fears,
the awful bogeymen of the major killers that we experience today, and being able to plan
for a lifespan of 100, 120, 150 years of health, vitality, so that you can essentially do everything
you want to do in this world, and when your time comes to check out, well, how better
to do it than, you know, at a time of your own choosing?
Healthy and good looking, who wants to go like Presley, right?
No, I understand that point of view, but what about this?
Even if you make it to 100, 110, 120, whatever, There are going to be certain degenerative processes that are going to limit your quality of life.
Even if you stop the major killers, the cancers, the heart disease, the strokes, the diabetes, other degenerative things begin to happen to you.
Well, that's true.
There will be other things that do come up, and when they will start to afflict you is anyone's guess, but my belief is, and what I'm really betting on, I think what the society is betting on, is the doubling time of medical knowledge.
No one has any problem when I talk about computers doubling every 18 months.
I have a problem with that.
I'm sick of buying them.
Oh boy, they annoy me too.
When is Steve Jobs going to bring back the old Macintosh?
We didn't have to open up the manual.
It worked right out of the box.
Do you remember that?
Well, yeah, but I'm an IBM guy, so we don't want to go there.
Oh, okay, okay.
But you know, the problem is the same, anyway.
What's that?
The problem is the same, anyway.
I mean, every six months, or however long, we double computer speeds, and you're sitting there with a dinosaur!
Well, yeah, but I mean, we don't need it.
I mean, I still can't figure out my old 286, you know, the old 286 computer.
Most people, you know, have a hundred times more computing power than they need.
I think the problem is in the interface.
I wish they would just put some effort into making an interface that worked, and then if your computer took, you know, 0.3 nanoseconds to get the problem done as opposed to 0.4 nanoseconds, it wouldn't be such a big deal.
Ah, but it is those very computers that you're complaining about that are so busily unraveling the human genome.
And by the way, they're now doing it at a rate that is quite a bit ahead of schedule.
Had you heard that?
Yes.
They were originally supposed to be completed, I believe, in 2007.
Now they're talking about Well, they're already over 75% complete now, and they're talking about being totally complete by 2001, which is fantastic technology, because it will usher in all of the genetic engineering technologies along with it.
A lot of people want to know, I'm one of them, when they finally get the entire human genome mapped, what does that mean for us?
What do we then know and what can we then do that we cannot do now?
Okay, well right now with 75, actually more than 75% of the human genome mapped, what we're doing is almost on a daily basis we're finding new genetic markers for disease.
And what that's telling us is we're developing new tests to tell whether you're at risk for Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, Parkinson's disease, whatever, whatever, whatever.
That we're finding that all these diseases have a genetic component to them.
So no cures yet, but tests.
In other words, tests.
Assays for them.
Now the next step is to, once, the human genomes, The DNA is kind of, not kind of, is literally the software that we run on.
The software that our biology runs on.
And so what we're doing is we're deciphering that software code and we're learning where the flip switches are on the DNA molecules that turn on this protein or that protein or this cell function or that cell function.
The trouble is, having the tests before we can do anything about it seems almost cruel.
We can find out we're going to get Alzheimer's, but we can't do a damn thing to prevent it.
Oh, that's not true, Art.
There's an awful lot that we're learning that we can do to prevent Alzheimer's disease and all these other diseases of aging.
That by foresight is really almost as good as treatment.
Forewarned, forearmed.
Because once you know what the mechanism of the disease is, let's talk about Alzheimer's disease for a second, we're beginning to understand What's causing Alzheimer's disease, it appears that it's an aberrant protein, a beta amyloid protein that's produced within the brain that shouldn't be there.
And this protein creates an inflammatory process within the brain, just like if you had a splinter in your arm and your arm turned red and swollen and tender.
And after a period of time, this inflammation leads to brain cell damage and then finally to brain cell death.
And so we're finding that, you know, the best way of course would be to prevent that amyloid protein from developing.
But some of the other things that we're developing right now are drugs that reverse that amyloid protein after it
has developed and actually make it disappear.
And other things we're finding are if you give anti-inflammatories, even if you have the amyloid protein, you don't have as
much inflammation.
Without as much inflammation, you don't lose the cells and your brain doesn't die.
Alright.
Doctor, hold on right there.
I've heard it said that if we can just make it another 30-35 years, if you could make it another 30-35 years, They may actually be able to stop or even reverse the aging process.
Consider the prospect.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
All right, back now to Dr. Klatz.
Welcome back, Doctor.
Oh, thanks, Art.
God, there's a million questions I want to ask you about.
A million things.
For example...
Doctors will rarely ever say anything about each other, and I guess there are lots of reasons that we don't understand for that.
But I would like your comments on Dr. Seed.
Is Dr. Seed, in your view, ahead of the curve, too far ahead of the curve?
Are you excited about what he is doing?
How do you feel about what he's doing?
Well, I think what Seed is doing is he's raising a good question.
Seed's merely talking about technology that's in reality right now.
I mean, if Seed doesn't do it, believe me, somebody else will.
As a matter of fact, somebody else probably already has.
Recently, there were reports of a fertility clinic essentially using standard fertility techniques.
to, for Eliza Woman, using essentially the same technology as we're going to use for
human cloning and it worked.
We've done human cloning in sheep, in cows, and in mice.
So three species already and we've done the same technology in people already.
So there's no reason to believe, no reason at all to believe that human cloning won't
work in people.
Could we grow a person in a cow?
Uh, maybe.
Maybe there were.
One of the problems with Dolly was they had to try like 250 times in order to get an egg to work, using a very technically difficult method.
They put genetic material into that egg.
Well, cows produce many, many, many eggs.
And what we're finding with cows, and this is going to be a great boon for people who are concerned about rare species of animals, is that cows produce a lot of eggs, the eggs are very big, they're easy to manipulate, and what they're talking about doing is using cows' eggs to grow pandas and other endangered species.
Lizards, I mean all kinds of things.
Maybe not lizards, but certainly any kind of similar animal, any mammal, in a cow egg by removing the DNA of the cow and putting in the DNA of any animal you want and using the cow as an incubator.
It's going to change family albums, though.
I think so, I mean... This really could be done.
Yes.
We're talking science fact here, not science fiction.
I understand.
That's probably the most frustrating thing about trying to talk to the media about this, because the media keeps wanting to cast this stuff as if it's in some distant, far-off future on another planet.
And it's not.
It's not.
Doctor, is it you that said if we can hang on for another 35 years or so, 30 or 35 years,
that we actually might achieve immortality?
Well, from a practical point of view, and when I say immortality I'm talking about lifespans
of 150, 200, maybe longer.
Perhaps not immortality as in infinity, but certainly lifespans far beyond anything that we assume to be possible today.
This technology is not that far off, and I say that because of the following.
I think we got off on a sidetrack with computer doubling time of 18 months and a half.
And nobody has any problem if I was to say on the radio show, you know, hey, I just came back from the Consumer Electronics Show, and I bought this supercomputer that fits on my wristwatch, and, you know, I just talk to it, and it types up my letters for me, and it shows me a satellite map of the world, and, you know, I have a video camera on the thing, and it's like Dick Tracy.
I mean, no one has even raised their eyebrow.
They just say, well, that's cool.
Where do I get one?
But when I talk about Or any of the doctors in the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine talk about, you know, the potential of lifespans of 200 years or 150 years and beyond in the next 30 to 50 years.
You know, a lot of people, you know, assume that that's an impossibility, that this is just so way out.
It's really not because medical knowledge is doubling every 3.5 years.
That means that in 20 years from now, we're going to know 64 times more about aging and how to reverse it than we do today.
Well, okay then.
Uh, what I'm saying could be true.
In other words, if in 30 years you can keep people alive, say 200 years, then 200 years is going to pass, and in that 200 years, that continual doubling process is going to be ongoing, and who knows, maybe in that span of time, there will be immortality.
200 years from now?
Well, there are some very real technologies that are coming on stream that may make immortality, even in the wildest sense of the imagination, a very real possibility.
There's this technology called the retinal camera, or the silicone eye, or the small tetra technology, which is extremely exciting and frightening at the same time.
They also actually sewed on a cadaver arm to a living human being the other day and expect it to work.
Yes, they do.
That type of transplantation will be commonplace in the very near future and with the cloning technology, not only will it absolutely work, But you'll be able to have custom-made body parts that will be genetically identical to your cells, so there'll be zero chance of rejection, and you ultimately won't be able to tell the difference between a replacement part and your own part.
Now, how do we do that?
How do you grow just an arm?
Well, what they're doing with cloning now is they're able to clone just essentially a bag of organs.
You mean no brain?
Without a brain and without a higher nervous system.
It still has a spinal cord, but it's just the lower nervous system.
They've essentially treated the cells so that they don't develop a higher nervous system.
And so what you end up with is you end up with this body, you know, almost like a bag.
A bag of parts.
A bag of parts.
Doctor, there are snipers out there shooting abortion doctors right now.
It's pretty scary.
When we start in on bag of parts for replacement, what do you think is going to happen socially?
I think we have a lot of work to do and that's why I'm so happy that you're bringing up this issue because what you're talking about with this show, Art, is you're talking about the immediate future of mankind.
And you're talking about issues that the media is afraid to talk about, because number one, they don't understand it, and number two, it's controversial, and the media doesn't like to handle the controversy.
I love to handle it.
It's my life.
I think you're doing a fabulous job.
It's my lifeblood, thank you.
And I commend you very strongly for it.
I've done dozens, hundreds of shows, and you're the only show where we're able to really explore this in any depth at all.
Well, that in itself is very, very sad because of all the news that's out there on a daily basis, the kind of stuff you're talking about is so incredibly exciting compared to the drivel that we get on a daily basis that I would think other media just in their own selfish interests would begin to air this and you've got to wonder
why they don't. I mean there must be an agenda because the media will usually hop on something that is
really interesting and this is.
It is a mystery to me Art. The media is looking for the 10 second soundbite and they don't want to talk about anything
that goes beyond that with the exception of the foreign media.
The BBC is very good about those things.
Oh, yes, they are.
But the U.S.
media, I think they assume that the American public really just doesn't have the mental horsepower for it, and I disagree very strongly.
I know you do as well.
It would also be possible to produce, as Dr. Seed is intent on doing, an actual clone of yourself.
Now, if you were to do that, and if we were able to, in effect, download the information in one brain to another brain, then...
Then you have one form of immortality, and you also have a terrible problem ethically and with morals.
You have an incredible problem, and a problem that needs to be addressed with regard to these issues of immortality or maximally extended lifespan.
And it's for that very reason that we're going to have Dr. Seed on a panel on medical ethics.
At our 6th International Congress of Anti-Aging Medicine and Biomedical Technology.
It's going to be at the Alexis Park Resort in Las Vegas, December 11th to 13th.
We're expecting about 3,000 physicians from 44 countries to attend this seminar.
You're invited by the way, Art.
I'd love to have you on our panel as well.
We're going to have people from Harvard and maybe even someone from the Vatican.
Well, thank you for the invitation.
Perhaps I could encourage you to call Dr. Seed and ask him to come on the program.
I've been asking him on his answering machine every now and then I leave a message on The good doctor's answering machine, and he has yet to respond.
He probably thinks that I'll come after him, so maybe you, as a colleague, could tell him that I don't do that with my guests, and he could safely come on my show.
I know he's had some bad experiences.
You know, he's gone on some media programs, and they have just gone after him like crazy.
I think so.
Well, I'll be happy to call him tomorrow for you, Art, and I'll see if I can get him to respond.
Intercede for me.
I'd certainly be happy to, but if your listeners are interested in this conference on anti-aging medicine, may I give them an 800 number?
You, of course you may.
Okay, they can come to the conferences, really, for physicians and scientists, but your listeners are pretty bright people, and if they understand our conversation, they're going to understand a lot of what's going on at this conference.
Uh, it's, uh, the phone number for the conference is 1-800-634-6133.
That's 1-800-634-6133.
634-6133. That's 1-800-634-6133. It's December the 11th to the 13th in Las Vegas. And for your
listeners, Art, you know a lot of them may not want to pay the cost of coming to the conference for
members of the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
It's about $300 and something dollars.
I don't have the exact number here.
But if they become a member of the Academy, and they can become a member for just $60 and receive all kinds of literature and books and things like that, they can get into the Exhibit Hall, which is 200 exhibitors, the latest medical technology for free.
And so if they call that number, 800-634-6133, they can become a member of the Academy, they can support the work that we're doing, and they can come visit us in Las Vegas, and maybe you'll be on the panel with us.
Perhaps.
Doctor, is there eventually going to be what?
A shot that we take?
Anti-aging potion number 9?
How do you imagine this to unfold?
Will they give us a vectoring virus that will take something into our system and change everything?
How is this going to happen?
Let me tell you what's going on right now.
Right now there are 153 physicians.
Who are board certified by the American Board of Anti-Aging Medicine who are practicing anti-aging medicine on a full-time basis right now worldwide.
And there are probably a couple of thousand docs who are doing anti-aging medicine as a part of their medical practice.
Alright.
And so this technology exists right now.
And what it exists in the form of is early detection and prevention of the diseases of aging.
cancer, heart disease, diabetes, stroke.
And what it exists as is a hormone replacement therapy with hormones such as estrogen, testosterone,
progesterone, pregnenolol, human growth hormone, to replace those hormones that are missing as we grow older
that we're finding are in fact the hormones of youth.
These are the pacemakers that keep us young.
And then there's also advances in optimum nutritional therapies
because we're finding that vitamin A and vitamin C and vitamin E, these antioxidant vitamins,
can protect us from many of the ravages of aging.
There is advances in sports medicine technology.
A lot of the original doctors in anti-aging medicine are Olympic physicians.
Let me stop you and ask you how they do that.
How does vitamin A, vitamin C, whatever else, how does it, these oxidants, I'm all confused and I think the public is too.
Okay.
Oxygenation is good, oxygenation is bad.
Well, real quickly, let me just give you the download on antioxidant supplementation and toxins and free radicals.
Basically we are oxygen burning machines just like your car.
You take oxygen away from us, we don't do very well at all.
Our body needs basically oxygen and glucose or some kind of fuel and oxygen and we burn
those items within the mitochondria of our cells and the cells within the mitochondria
produce ATP which is an energy molecule which is used by the cell to give life, to give
the cell the energy to do the metabolic processes it needs for us to stay alive.
Right.
And that's all good.
Except that in the process of burning the glucose and the oxygen for fuel, we produce byproducts.
And these byproducts are largely free radicals.
And these free radicals are essentially oxygen molecules that are unstable.
They have an unpaired electron, and so they're chemically unstable.
And these unstable oxygen molecules, or free radical molecules, can do tremendous damage.
They are, they're like biological acids.
They will damage anything they come in contact with.
When we're young, we have a lot of naturally produced free radical quenching agents or antioxidants that are naturally there to protect the cells of our body.
As we get older, we lose the ability, for some reason, To produce these natural free radical scavengers.
And so the amount of free radical damage accumulates, accumulates, accumulates, accumulates over years.
And it leads to things like damage to the cell, destruction of the DNA, of the DNA within the cell which can lead to cancer, to damage of the mitochondria which leads to fatigue and loss of energy, to damage of the cell walls which causes the cells to die prematurely.
So these free radicals You know, are kind of like biological acids that eat our bodies apart from the inside out, slowly over a long period of time.
And so by taking supplemental free radical fighters, such as vitamin A, C, E, selenium, a host of other vitamins, we can protect ourselves from the damage done by free radicals.
So in other words, put crudely, we're rotting away.
Crudely, yeah.
In a way.
And what these vitamins do is they slow down that process.
They protect us.
And in the laboratory, at least, we see that when you give free radical supplementation to laboratory animals, they live about, depending on the study, anywhere from 15 to 50 percent longer than they would otherwise.
And in people, we're beginning to see that supplementation with vitamin E is protective against some forms of cancer, most forms of heart disease, and maybe even Alzheimer's disease as well.
And the same is true with vitamin C and vitamin A to a lesser extent, because each of the antioxidants work in different parts of the body and different parts of the cell.
So we need them all.
We can't just make do with one.
There's no one magic pill right now.
We need the whole cocktail But in the laboratory we're seeing life extension in our laboratory animals quite significantly with antioxidants alone as I say 15 to 50 percent increase in lifespan and when we look at the whole picture of the disease prevention and the hormone replacement and the antioxidants and optimum exercise and avoiding stress
In the laboratory, we can see increases in laboratory animals' lifespan by 100%, 200%.
My God.
If I go to an anti-aging doctor now, a good one, on the cutting edge, and I say, Doc, I've got the bucks, I want to live longer, do every single thing you can to make me live longer, I'm 53 now, what could be done for me?
We could probably take you from a biological... I don't know what your biological age is, but let's say that you're 53 right now, Art?
That's right.
Physiologically 53.
I am, yes.
Okay.
We could probably take you biologically from 53, maybe down to about 43 biologically.
Really?
Yes.
Fascinating.
Doctor, hold it right there.
So I could reduce my physical age to match my mental age, huh?
We're gonna break here at the top of the hour.
By the way, congratulations to Wade Lieske, my local sheriff.
As you know, I supported him.
And he won.
Don't leave me this way.
I can't survive.
I can't stay alive without your love.
Well, Dr. Ronald Klatz is...
He is one of the nation's leading experts in anti-aging and eventually immortality.
He'll be back in a moment, and we've got so very, very much to talk about.
As a matter of fact, I might arm him with a moment to think, because I'm going to ask him if there is any aspect of this whole movement, the Dr. Seed business, What lies ahead that worries him or that he is uncomfortable with?
Now, this is a man who works in the arena, and if there's anything going on out there right now that he doesn't particularly like, I think that's what we'll ask next.
I understand, Dr. Klatz, that you are a proponent of anti-aging, that you feel that we're moving generally in the right direction, but there must be an area or two or so that you are not quite as comfortable with.
Is there any area at all that promotes, in this whole spectrum that we've discussed, that you are not comfortable with?
Well Art, anti-aging medicine is a very powerful technology and it's changing the world as
we speak.
Anti-aging medicine is essentially a euphemism for the majority of the biomedical revolution
that's going on right now.
This is hundreds of billions of dollars potential marketplace and it's tens of billions that
are being spent in developing it.
I mean, it's hard to think of many new therapies that have come along in the last few years that aren't anti-aging medicine.
Viagra is probably the best example.
I mean this is a pill that can make an 80 year old function like a 40 year old with
just one pill.
As a matter of fact, I wanted to ask about Viagra.
In other words, that really is a true statement, what you just said?
Oh boy, yeah.
Have you tried it, Doctor?
Well, from being a scientist.
You just had to try.
I had to give it a try.
I had to try it myself and see if it really... And it really did?
It does, yeah.
Oh, my.
And it did with half.
Now, realize I'm a young man.
I'm 43 years of age.
Could have made you dangerous, huh?
Well, it was.
It harkened back to the teenage years.
That's for certain.
Oh, you're kidding.
Really?
I mean, six hours later, I was saying, enough already.
Why don't we have the equivalent of Viagra for women?
I can't do the listening.
Ooh, that's amazing.
But Viagra's a very interesting example because it's just the tip of the iceberg.
Why don't we have the equivalent of Viagra for women?
Well, interestingly enough, they're testing Viagra right now for women.
Really?
Yeah, because what Viagra does is increases blood flow to certain areas of the body, and in women there are analogous areas of the body.
And there are some women who are reporting an enhanced response.
Testosterone is very effective as a libidinal stimulant for women, and that's readily available even in the form of testosterone cream that can just be applied topically.
We live in a miraculous age, and what I want the public to understand is that anti-aging medicine is really the next paradigm of medicine.
It's medicine for the next millennia.
But having said all that, and I'm with you... Okay, that's the good side.
The bad side is... Let me tell you what the bad side is, and what really concerns me right now.
And I don't mean to beat up on my friends at the National Institute of Aging.
I do have a concern about intellectual honesty and fair play and being straight with the American public.
I believe that the National Institute of Aging is not being straight with the American public.
Do you remember a couple of years ago, There was a lot of information in the media about this new drug, Human Growth Hormone.
Oh, yes!
Well, that came to be because of my book, Grow Young with HGH, which is all about the benefits of Human Growth Hormone.
And the NIA's knee-jerk reaction to that was that, well, anti-aging medicine is a hoax on the American public, and it doesn't work, and we're going to have to do something about it.
And after 25 years of essentially being invisible, They decided to spend something like a million dollars of their 500 million dollar budget on a national advisory to the American public warning them that there was no scientific basis to any claims for any anti-aging benefits of any substances and that vitamins didn't work and nothing worked and blah blah blah blah blah.
Do you remember that public advisory on TV?
yes sir i do with madame attorney of this uh... fortune teller since
there was a lot of tongue-in-cheek kind of thing
as soon as they came out with that press release
an interesting thing happened uh... the All these research papers started breaking about vitamin E and protection against heart disease and cancer and Alzheimer's disease.
So they retracted their position.
They said, well, really we're talking about all these hormones, these dangerous hormones that are out there that are of no benefit for anti-aging purposes.
There's no basis to it.
and there was a big report in the media about by about uh...
estrogen in the new enterprise new entertainment and the in java dot
how i've been not only would
do speak and for all uh... age-related disease by fifty percent
that deterrent disease of aging across the board not just osteoporosis and heart disease
Yes.
but even alzheimer's disease parkinson's disease diabetes all these diseases of aging were
down almost fifty percent in the women who took estrogen replacement therapy as opposed
to those who did not.
Yes.
Remember that?
Yes.
And they retracted their position once more and they said well we're just talking about
growth hormone.
Growth hormone is unproven and to this day I mean I still get these reports from the
media telling me that the NIA says that there's no basis to growth hormone even though there
There have been dozens of studies that have reported it.
And so it's kind of an intellectual dishonesty, and I have a problem with an agency of the U.S.
government being deliberately... How can I say it?
Putting across information... Disinformation?
That's the word.
Disinformation.
Alright, but you still really have not exactly answered my question.
My question was... I'm going to go on from that.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, I wondered, and I've been wondering for years, why was this?
Why was the NIA not being straight with the American public?
And why are they still not being straight with the American public, even though they spent something of approaching $25 million to do an eight-center, multi-center study on the beneficial or non-beneficial effects of growth hormone that were supposed to be released in 1997?
Well, I could give you a two-word answer.
It might be wrong.
Social Security.
Well, that may be one of the answers.
Well, in 1997, they said, well, you know, we need to re-examine the statistics, because we're not really sure, so we're going to put off this study being released until July of 1998.
July of 1998 came along and went.
The study was not released.
When they were asked why, they said, well, we have to re-examine the statistics, and we have to expand the study.
We're not really sure.
But at the same time, the same growth hormone doesn't work.
So why are they continuing to fund this study, and why are they not releasing the results if the growth hormone doesn't have a beneficial effect, or hormone therapy doesn't have a beneficial effect on anti-aging medicine?
It makes me wonder.
Social security.
Well, I mean, all other issues aside, if anything makes us live longer, the social implications are mind-boggling.
Absolutely true.
Frankly, I think behind the scenes there are a lot of people at the UN and elsewhere trying to figure out How to reduce the world's population, not increase it, and God knows with Viagra and increased age, you know, we're rabbits.
Well, it's interesting that the World Health Organization just reported that the, in the first world at least, the fastest growing segment of the population is 65+, and that 20% of all children born today will see their 100th birthday and beyond.
This is from the World Health Organization.
Let me read you a little passage.
You know, I'm kind of talking around the issue because I know you're looking for the juicy dark heart of anti-aging.
Well, I am.
Let me read you a passage from Immortality, which is a new book by Dr. Ben Bova.
Who's a science writer and columnist for USA Today.
Yes.
I'm going to read you just one passage from his book.
His new book, Immortality, says basically that prepare for there to be clinically available methods to achieve virtual immortality within the next 50 years.
So I'm not alone in all this.
And this is just one passage and it says the Morlock and the Eloy.
Suppose some government leaders decided to keep some research on life extension going in secret so that they could prolong their own lifespans and perhaps the lifespans of those near and dear to them.
We run into a science fiction scenario in which the world government or corporate leaders and their chosen elite are immortal, or nearly so.
They wouldn't do that, would they?
What's this?
They wouldn't do that, would they?
Of course not!
But this is from his book.
While the vast majority of the world's population live and die from one generation to the next, what might be the most likely outcome of a world in which research on life extensions is officially banned, but secretly continued?
The world will divide into the immortals and the death-bound.
Very likely, the immortals will disguise their great age and they will not want the death-bound to realize that they are immortal, for fear of result.
It should be relatively easy to do if the immortals have control of the world's institutions of learning and the media, as is the case today, eh?
In the 1895 classic, The Time Machine, H.G.
Well portrayed a far future world in which human society had divided into the beautiful Eloi who spent their days lazily playing in the sunny gardens and the grotesque Morlocks who lived in the underground with the machines that made everything the Eloi needed.
The Eloi seem to be in paradise, except that at night the Morlock came to the surface and dragged a few Eli down below to eat them.
Yes, sir.
Well, this warning against a division between the rich and the poor that Welles saw in the late Victorian society, he prophesied in the future in which, well, both of them prophesied that in the future where immortality is available to but a few elite individuals, the world will truly be divided in this way.
Or, in fact, would the public dread the discovery after all?
Ancient Egyptian society endured almost unchanged for more than 2,000 years, with the common people worshipping the pharaoh, who was regarded as a god.
The Chinese emperors lasted almost as long, with interruption from only barbarian invaders.
They too were considered a god-emperor head.
Could it be that the immortal elite will not hide their longevity, but in fact will reveal it?
Well, now, now, now, see, I look at President Clinton and by the day he nearly looks older to me.
And then on the other hand, now that I think about it, every time I see Bill Gates he looks about the same.
Well, you know, it makes me wonder, because Bill Gates hasn't called me yet.
He hasn't?
No, and if I had 65 billion good reasons to want to live a long and healthy life, I would certainly be calling anyone I knew who was involved in this area of science.
But you're absolutely right, Art.
There is going to be a dark underbelly to this science.
I don't know what it is yet, because right now it's all brand new... Well, you just named one aspect of it.
I think clearly, when this technology becomes available, there'll be the haves and the have-nots, as there always are with everything else.
Well, not necessarily, Art.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Certainly, there is a... In other words, you expect a great upturn in human nature.
No, no I don't.
I'm just saying that the technology in and of itself is not so expensive or so difficult that it does only have to be had by the have-and-have-nots, and for the same reason that cellular phones can be had by almost anyone, beepers can be had by anyone, and computers can be had by anyone, because the technology as it springs forth into society can be You know, the price comes way down.
As a matter of fact, you could be on an anti-aging medicine program right now for about two or three dollars a day, and even with the most advanced anti-aging hormonal therapy and diagnostic therapy, it's hard to spend more than about ten thousand dollars a year doing the whole shot.
Today's technological level give you, you're calculating 15 years at minimum?
No, actually I'm thinking more like 20 to 30 years.
You see, a man in your position, and you're 53, we can probably turn back the hands of time maybe 10 years.
But a man who's 63 or 73, we can turn back the hands of time 20 years, and we do it all the time.
When I say we, I'm talking about the hundreds and thousands of doctors who are practicing anti-aging medicine right now.
So right now, with today's technology, and realize we're just in our infancy, we can extend a lifespan probably In the right circumstances, by as much as 20 years.
Well, that's a good investment, particularly for somebody who has billions of dollars.
I look at it as very cheap life insurance.
How many people do you think, CEOs, people who have lots of money, money to burn, movie stars particularly, people who want to remain young for a public image, how many people are presently doing this?
Are there a lot of them?
Well, it depends on one aspect of it.
Remember, anti-aging medicine is a very wide umbrella.
Yeah.
And anti-aging medicine can be anything from having a mammography for the early detection of breast cancer to... I'm talking about the whole Megillah here.
The whole Megillah.
There's probably about 10,000 people on a really dedicated anti-aging medicine program worldwide right now.
I'm still trying to contemplate the consequences of, for example, Viagra.
Now, I'm able to do what I'm able to do now because I'm able to concentrate on what I'm doing.
growth hormone that figure is higher probably more like twenty to thirty
thousand i'm still trying to complete the consequences of for
example viagra now i'm able to do what i'm able to do now because i'm able
to concentrate on what i'm doing and if i remember back when i was nineteen
or twenty my mind was occupied uh...
uh... intensely occupied with the opposite sex uh...
all the time and...
To imagine that again now is... I don't think the Viagra really changes your mind.
I don't think that's the effect.
I remember your hormones when you were young were driving what you thought about.
That's true.
That's true.
But raising your hormones to that level would not be optimum hormone replacement therapy.
Raising, you see, in anti-aging medicine what you're trying to do is you're trying to achieve an optimum state of health from a physiologic point of view.
And that is not to replace hormones to the level of a 15-year-old.
That's replacing hormones in a 60-year-old to the level of a 45-year-old.
That's better.
That I could handle.
And that's really where you want to stay.
You know, it's a lot of stress on your body being 15 again.
And certainly it's a lot of stress on your mind.
Oh, God!
I remember so clearly.
But it is interesting you mention that, Art, because when you talk to people who are on anti-aging therapies across the board, whether it be ginseng or vitamins or exercise or human growth hormone or anything, The best barometer of whether the therapy is working or not,
interestingly enough, is return of sexual function.
That is the...
You know, because sex is that kind of energy and it's probably the energy of life in many
Realize in order to function sexually, you have to have your circulatory system working for you, your endocrine system working for you, your neurological system working for you, you have to be in the right frame of mind.
There's a lot of things going into making for a successful sexual act, physiologically.
And it is the best parameter, and when you are using an anti-aging therapy that works, That's the first and most dramatic reported side effect.
Well, then how come Bill Clinton's hair is turning so gray?
Well, I don't think he's on anti-aging therapies.
Well, he may or may not be, but there doesn't seem to be anything particularly obstructing his sexual interest.
Well, Art, I would love to tell you all about Bill, but you know... We don't have to go there, Art.
...patient physician confidentiality prevents it.
All right, doctor.
Hold on, we'll be right back to you.
uh... from my desert on the day after election day this is close to coast
back down to uh... doctor class uh...
Doctor, there's something going on with respect to computer chip implants.
We are really, we're on the absolute edge of getting implants, aren't we?
Oh yes, we are.
As a matter of fact, we've already done it in people.
There was a fellow who was reported in the news just about two, three weeks ago, a fellow with Lockton Syndrome.
Essentially, he had a stroke of the spinal cord and from the poor fellow from the eyes down, he cannot communicate any longer.
All he can do is move his eyes, essentially, and blink for yes or no, which is a horrible, horrible, horrible existence.
And what they've done is they've implanted electrodes in the fellow's brain in the area responsible for movement.
And all he has to do is think about moving his arm.
And it moves?
It stimulates this electrode.
And he can now control a mouse, electronic mouse, on a TV screen.
Wow!
He can move this pointer back and forth on the TV screen and choose yes, no, maybe, I'm thirsty, I'm hungry, you know, raise my bed, lower my bed, I mean all these different commands with brain power, with simply the power of his thought.
Well, alright, you have given me obviously a very positive Now there's the other side of the equation as well.
And there's British Telecom, which for the last five, six years has been working on a technology called the Soul Catcher technology.
Soul Catcher?
Yes, soul as in your immortal soul.
And what they're talking about is, this is British Telecom.
And they have been working for the last five years on a implantable chip that would be implanted behind your eye, which would work as electronic retina, and that it would essentially record everything that you have seen or heard.
It would record your emotion, your blood pressure, maybe even your sense of smell for a lifetime.
And it would download this information into something on your belt about the size of a Walkman, which would be a permanent memory of every existence that you had throughout a lifetime.
And they're talking about this technology being ready on or before 2025.
As a matter of fact, the project is called Soul Catcher 2025.
To what end, Doctor?
Well, the belief is that in addition to having a pretty darn good billing record if you're an attorney, I suppose, that you'd be able to essentially record More than just a video recorder, you'd be able to record emotion, feeling, pertinent aspects of your life for a permanent depository and eventually to download this information into a computer when supercomputers were sufficiently powerful enough that you would be able to create a virtual electronic duplicate of your psyche.
Would you transfer Consciousness.
You might very well be able to do that.
Imagine for a second that we live in the future, and now what I'm talking about is science fiction as opposed to science fact.
Only part of this is science fact right now, and I'll go into that in a minute.
But let's say we lived in a future, and probably not too distant a future, maybe within 30 years.
As a matter of fact, probably within 30 years, where we had sufficiently powerful computing technology, miniaturized to the point where you could have a computer that would be able to think and would be able to
process information as well as the higher centers of your brain?
Yes.
And that you would be able to program that computer with everything you said or thought
or spoke or smelled or felt or blood pressure, any number of different variables on a real
time basis so that as you are living your experience, you are constantly streaming this
information into your computerized double.
Yeah.
After a while, and if there was that connection, a two-way connection between the computer and yourself, I'm with you, you would have immediate information to, immediate access to all information that existed on the planet.
All information existed throughout time.
You'd be omnipotent, yes?
Yes.
And so you wouldn't have to go to the books anymore to look up anything.
If you want someone's telephone number, you didn't have to call directory assistants.
You just have to think about, boom, it would be there.
After a certain period of time with this data being downloaded into the computer after being filtered through your brain and your emotions and your way of thinking, the computer would start... It would be you.
It would essentially be your psyche, a duplicate of you.
It would be like having an identical twin and being telepathic.
And after a while, you would not be able to tell the difference between its thoughts and your thoughts.
And if one day your physical body was to die, your consciousness would not lose a blink.
Now there's where I'm a little bit lost.
In other words, my consciousness is a singularity, and even if I were able to duplicate That consciousness that was running in a very fast processor with tons of storage and the size of a discman or something.
That would be also a singularity, identical perhaps, but... It would be a singularity if the two of you were not linked in a real-time fashion.
It would be as if you were to have... I see what you're saying.
It would be as if you were to have, you know, a wall of light bulbs and one of them was to burn out.
The light would not go off.
It would be no more of a trauma to you, to your psyche, than closing one eye.
Doctor, doesn't this one bother you?
It kind of scares me.
It does kind of scare me.
Well, we finally have come to something.
I'll tell you what even scares me more.
What?
Is that I'm talking about the Soul Catcher technology, and that's kind of science fiction, but I'm reading about IBM having the IBM 2020 neural implant chip.
Hmm.
I've heard this myself.
It's true?
Well, I don't know.
I've got it off the internet, so it's as true as the internet can be.
But there are, in fact, technologies that are going on that are implanting computerized chips into people that are ostensibly for enhancement, but have a tremendous downside potential for evil.
And I talk about the ID technology that they're putting into dogs and cats now, your pets.
Oh, no.
That's been going on for some time.
Well, now they're getting ready to do it in people as well.
They're saying that, gee, wouldn't it be nice if you could carry around a chip underneath your skin that has 256K?
And so you wouldn't have to pull out your wallet to make a transaction when you walked up to the airlines?
Or you wouldn't have to, you know, when you walked into school?
Let me tell you something.
I'm getting stories.
That indicate, now I have no idea if it's true or not, but there are some people now who have implants in their hands, who can literally go to the grocery store, I bet you've heard this, and at the end, when the total is rung up, they can pass their hand over the scanner and pay their bill.
I've heard that that was possible, but I haven't heard that it was in operation as of yet.
I think we have to be very careful about this because... The mark of the beast, doctor.
You know that's what they're going to say.
Well, and I think that there's a very legitimate concern about that.
You know, it's one thing to have this technology for the enhancement of humankind.
It's another thing when it gets into the hands of the government and is used for quote-unquote law enforcement and And, you know, control of the population.
Oh, what about the insurance companies?
How do we keep this information?
And this is not future, I'm talking about now.
A propensity toward a heart attack at mid-age?
You're absolutely true.
Gattaca is here.
As a matter of fact, on this cover, on the cover of Popular Science this month, is a genetic ID card.
It's about the size of one of those clickers you use to get into your garage door.
You're kidding.
And what they're talking about is this DNA chip.
where you put one drop of blood on it, just like you would if you were diabetic to have
your blood read or one of these cholesterol readers.
Yes.
And this thing will type your DNA and it will, you just plug that information into a computer
and it will tell you exactly what your propensity for any disease is, any time in your life.
And you know as well as I do, the popular science is rarely wrong and they're only usually
a few years ahead of the curve.
Well, if I were an employer, that would be invaluable for me.
great for employers but what does it do with our employees well for the employer and for the genetically challenged
the genetically challenged uh... well
i think underneath it all we're all genetically challenged but but but but uh... some more than others and the
genetically challenged those
who are going to have a heart attack at an early age or contract a cancer or whatever
Well, let me just speak to that for a second.
Yes.
You see, there's always two sides of everything, and that's the bright side of anti-aging medicine.
It is, but the bright side is a few years down line from the darker side that we have now.
Yes.
Well, not really.
Not with regard to genetic testing.
You see, genetic testing can be a problem for insurance and for the individual, and I'm very much against this being in the hands of the insurance companies.
I believe that this is very private information.
It should be specifically in the hands of the individual.
But the bright side is, if you know what your genetic endowment is, you can beat your genes.
I was born with the genes to have a heart attack by the time I was 42.
Really?
And I was able to beat it through very reasonable interventions.
My dad has first heart attack at age 42.
I have type 4 hypertriglyceridemia, and that's a fancy name for very high cholesterol, very high triglycerides and very low HDL, which essentially is a heart attack waiting to happen.
So what have you done?
Well, I found out about when I was 25 in medical school.
And you must have had a bad day.
Well, medical school was one long bad day.
I don't recommend it to people who are not masochistic at heart.
But anyway, you know, medicine is a great profession.
I don't mean to smudge it at all, but it's a very hard one.
You have to really be dedicated to putting in all the time.
But I found out about this when I was 25.
And I took steps.
I started taking thyroid, which can lower cholesterol.
I started taking cholesterol-lowering agents, things as simple as additional fiber, vitamin C and vitamin E. I started exercising a little bit more, and my arteries today are whistle clean.
And they should be clogged as heck, but they're not.
But they're not.
So genetics is not everything.
It's just one pointer.
Well, we used to think genetics was everything, and then maybe 10 years ago we started saying, well, genetics is only 50% of the equation.
The more we learn about early diagnosis, the more we're finding out we can beat it.
And now the best minds are saying genetics are maybe only about 30% of the equation.
70% are in your own hands.
Alright, well, in that regard, I feel sorry for the American public, because I feel sorry for myself.
Things that I always thought were bad for me
the news tells me are are good for me and things that i thought were good for
me the news tells me are bad for me and then two months later they reverse
themselves that's right and it's very frustrating for the average individual
to know what's right what's wrong well that's why i'm inviting you to come to the world's
largest anti-aging expo and get the straight story from the people are doing the
research rather than from your uh... media answer man
who uh... give you the story of the moment I don't mean to be glib, there are.
I'm just trying to put in a plug for the Academy of Entertainment.
I understand.
Exercise is good, exercise is bad.
I could go on through the list.
Milk is good, milk is bad.
The problem is this.
Unless you have sources of information, unless you have at least three or four independent sources that are truly independent.
That are not being paid by the manufacturer of a drug or of a product to say nice things about it, you have no idea what the research means.
And when the media reports a study, they don't look at all the studies out there.
Do you remember last year when the media was saying that vitamin E might be bad for us?
Yes, I do.
And then they said vitamin E is good for us and it's bad for us.
What they're doing is, there are 4,000 published studies on vitamin E.
Last time I looked, actually there's more than that, but let's just say there's 4,000.
Well, somebody comes along with a new study that is sensational, and the media will jump all over that, as if that's the one and the only study that exists.
You have to look at the entire landscape, and the media is really guilty of sensationalism beyond any limits, and not having a studied view of the issue.
Well, you're correct about that.
They only report the latest news, and that turns out to be an incredibly frustrating experience.
It's really a disservice to the American public, because the public can't sit there and read the 4,000 reports, but the media does have access to people who understand and have the long view, but they don't want to report on the long view, they just want to report on the news of the moment.
You know what you really need?
You need a network.
There's networks on television now for every mundane thing you can think of.
Why not the anti-aging network?
I'm all for it, Art.
Would you like to put it on the air with me?
Well, it's a million dollar idea, that's for sure, if not more.
I mean, a place where this information could be dispensed, discussed, debated.
And generally, you could go in and get the real stuff, because the Associated Press, bless their hearts, and Reuters, and all the rest of them, they just report the flavor of the day.
That's so true, and it's very frustrating for the average person.
It's frustrating even for the educated person who's even in the field.
But I think the bottom line is that the science that really has enhanced the quality of all of our lives is continuing to move ahead, and if we can only keep it out of the hands of the few and in the hands of the many, we can maintain our freedoms.
Do you think we have immortal souls?
On the planet at this time?
Yes, sir.
I see no evidence of that.
That's a trick question, of course.
You see no evidence of that?
When you say immortal souls, you're talking about a spiritual immortal soul.
Do I believe in that?
Yes.
I personally believe in that from a personal point of view.
From a scientific point of view, I see no evidence of it.
a spiritual immortal soul do i believe in that
i personally believe in that from a from a from a personal point of view
from a scientific point of view i see no evidence of it no evidence of it
then if the soul catcher technology that we talked about a little
while ago were to come to fruition
we would if just in case you're wrong and there is actually any
immortal soul We would then surely be tampering in God's garden.
Seriously tampering in God's garden.
No, I don't think so.
No?
I think just the opposite.
I think what you'll do, let's say that, just for the moment, let's say that there is an immortal soul.
There is an energy or an ethereal body that belongs to each and every one of us that is unique.
Alright.
And it disappears from the body.
We shed our mortal coil and an immortal soul goes off into the heavens.
Yes.
And that's a beautiful thought and I really hope that's true.
But let's say that that is true.
And in the meantime, to hedge my bets, I was to go out and buy myself one of these soul catchers, or volunteer for a study involving it, and I was to make a clone of my psyche.
Not my psyche, of my consciousness.
Consciousness of all that you are.
Of all that I am, minus the immortal soul.
Yes.
And my body dies.
Well, if the soul is intricately connected to my body, and not to the box, then my soul's going to go back off to heaven when I die.
Maybe so, but then what you're left with with your soul catcher is a... Is just a cheap imitation, just a tape recorder.
A soulless intellect, a soulless consciousness.
That's true.
Under that circumstance, that is absolutely true.
Well, such a consciousness would probably be inherently dangerous to human beings.
Not necessarily.
You're assuming that compassion and that goodness are components of the soul.
You're right, I am.
Maybe there is the counterpart in the psychology, in the way that we have trained ourselves to be.
Or maybe not.
The problem with talking about issues of the soul is that we don't have experimentation.
We don't have a way of getting our hands around it.
It's all mythology.
It's good feelings inside.
I have a feeling.
You know, I believe in God.
I believe that God loves me, and that God loves us all, and that we're here to do good work on the planet, and I believe that my work in anti-aging medicine is a good work for all of mankind.
And I like to believe that it's even, perhaps even inspired it sometimes.
Do you believe that... But that's only a feeling, I don't have evidence to support that.
Do you believe that to go ahead with these kinds of technologies, that other people would believe that?
Or do you believe that you would essentially be in the position of the abortionist and your life would be in grave danger?
Good place for the break guard.
Yeah, it's a good place to break.
That's right.
Alright, hold on.
We'll break here.
When we come back, we'll jump into the phones.
Plenty of food for thought.
And as the doctor said, a good place to break.
It is, it is indeed a brave new world, isn't it?
Dr. Ronald Klatz, one of our nation's leading authorities on anti-aging and possibly Eventually, immortality is my guest.
Coast to Coast AM underway.
I've come to some kind of understanding as to what is appropriate and what is not.
Frankly, the Vatican has even weighed in on the issue.
And what do they say?
Well, they're saying that we are right at the threshold of technologies that literally You know, tread on the creation of human life, and that our technology has gotten far ahead of our social consciousness, and that the Vatican themselves are setting up an office to deal with some of these sociological implications of some of these technologies.
Not necessarily anti-aging technologies, but things that are allied with anti-aging technologies, such as the cloning technology that you address.
And, frankly, that's why we're having this panel discussion at this World Conference on Anti-Aging Medicine in Las Vegas, December 11-13.
And the 800 number?
Thanks, Art.
The 800 number for your listeners, and there's a special deal for Art Bell listeners.
Really?
If they become a member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, we'll let them in for free.
to the exhibition hall with over 200 exhibitors and we'll give them a very special price on
coming into the main conference if they want to do it and the 800 number is 800-634-6133.
There's going to be three days worth of conference on all aspects of anti-aging meds and everything
from testosterone replacement to Viagra to organ repair to transplant to DHEA melatonin,
estrogen therapies to laser therapies I mean The latest and the greatest in medicine is all there under one roof, and we're expecting about 3,000 of the world's leaders in the field of anti-aging medicine to attend this conference.
December 11th through the 13th.
Right, and we hope to have a representative from the Vatican.
John Glenn, by the way, will be winning the Infinity Award, which is the highest honor of our society, for his work that he's doing right now in space on researching human aging.
And, Art, I really hope you're going to be on this panel with Dr. Seed and with these other people from Harvard and from major universities around the world discussing these important issues, especially human cloning, issues of immortality, ways of, you know, what the social implications are of cryogenic freezing, of, you know, freezing your body for future generations.
Oh, I want to ask you about that!
So, you know, this is an entire new paradigm of healthcare.
It's an entire new way of looking at life.
And it raises so many important issues and we need someone with your, you know, your statesmanship kind of... Do they really want these kinds of questions?
Well, I think so.
I think that the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine is probably one of the most forthright medical societies on the planet today and our membership wants to address these issues and they want to deal with them And if people like yourself and myself don't come forth and raise these questions, then all we're going to be left with are the bureaucrats in Washington who either want to suppress the technology or want to turn it to their own ends.
That's the one I imagine.
Actually, they do both.
They suppress it to the general public and they use it for themselves.
Now, you mentioned cryogenics, and a million people want to talk to you, and I've got to go to the phones here in a second, but cryogenics.
There are companies, and I've had them on the air and interviewed them, that will either, on your clinical death, freeze your body or freeze your head.
And they will do this with an eye toward, cryogenically, preserving you and then bringing you back in a hundred years when whatever it was that was killing you or killed you can be undone.
That's true.
There are probably about five commercial organizations out there that are doing this right now.
I believe there's over 700 people who have signed up for just one of these company services.
Well, there are people out there who suggest this kind of thing is a rip-off and it's just a way for these companies to make eternal incomes.
Is there any real chance in your mind, of course they deny it completely, is there any real chance in your mind that such a thing could be possible?
Well, you know, in Vegas, you're definitely going to lose if you bet against the future of technology.
Yeah.
Let me tell you where the technology is at right now.
There is a thing called suspended animation surgery, which we are doing on thousands of people a year.
Oh, I know.
And what we do is we essentially put them on a heart-lung bypass pump.
We drop their body temperature to about 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
Yes.
We suck all the blood out of their body.
We replace their entire blood volume with saline, which is salt water.
And not only does their heart stop, but their brain waves stop, and there is not a drop of blood, well, I guess there's a drop of blood, but not much more than a drop of blood in their body.
They're dead.
They're dead.
Dead as a doornail.
And, you know, they're like locks on a platter.
They are cold and dead.
And they're kept that way for 45 minutes routinely and up to 90 minutes in some countries.
And they recover.
And the recovery rate after these extensive surgeries, this is really for the most serious of surgeries, mostly brain surgery, some heart surgery, the recovery rate for these people is about 98%.
They lose very few people.
And so these people have been dead for up to 90 minutes.
as a matter of routine and that is like the first that's kind of like
uh just the first inklings of what cryogenics is all about during during that 90 minutes where are
they good question very good question uh the people are under anesthesia they don't remember
much there's not a lot of this out-of-body experience reported no uh no more than with
normal surgery But it's a good question, where are they?
Because there's no brain waves, there's no heartbeat, there's no nothing that would give you any indication this person is still alive.
But still, they're brought back from the dead.
It's certainly a step below cryogenics, to be sure.
Now, the same technology in animals has worked up to, I am told, I am reported up to 8 hours in dogs.
And the obvious implication is... Eight hours!
Eight hours!
Eight hours!
A dog dead, take its body temperature down, flat brain waves for eight hours and it comes back?
That's correct.
I've never heard that.
Now, I saw the one thing on 60 Minutes, which I thought was fabulous, where it was about a 40, 45-minute operation, and the lady had a brain aneurysm that, had they operated on it, would have burst and killed her.
Right.
That was Welcome Back, Mrs. Cotter.
That's right.
Anyway, she was gone for 45 minutes, and they removed the blood.
The aneurysm collapsed.
They went in, did the surgery, sewed her back up, put the blood back in.
Without any other, you know, without the paddles or anything else, her heart began to beat, the brainwaves picked up, and here she was again.
That's true.
And they've done this thousands of times, so this is not, this is even routine now.
But the next step will be to be able to take this technology and extend it out for perhaps days, and then ultimately perhaps weeks or months.
And when that happens, and when they're talking about hibernation for people, Well, you know, NASA has some interest in this.
In other words, if we are to ever traverse light years, we're going to have to essentially put people in some sort of suspended animation.
And you're telling me that might indeed be possible?
That may be possible.
Now what the cryonicists are talking about is something that's really a step or two beyond all this.
And they're talking about taking people and freezing them solid in liquid nitrogen vats and big thermos bottles of liquid nitrogen.
Right.
With the belief That the technology will be such a hundred years into the future that we'll be able to overcome almost any damage that has been caused by the ice crystals that are created by this process.
Is that a fair bet?
I'd say it's a long shot, but it's not an impossible bet.
And I guess that technology, the preservation part of it, gets better all the time.
That's exactly what we're doing now.
And anti-aging medicine is trying to put an end to that.
Let me ask you this, and this is really a sensitive area.
really trying to put your ontologist out of business by putting an end to old age.
And so it's a question, it's not a question of how old you are, it's a question of how
old you feel.
And you should be alive and happy as long as you want to be.
Let us, let me ask you this, and this is really a sensitive area.
Let's say that we achieve 300 years as an average lifespan.
Okay.
And that the quality of life during that 300 years is good.
Okay.
Okay, um...
What about Dr. Kevorkian?
What about those who during that 300 years, a gift from science and medicine and people like yourself, people decided they were going to or wanted to opt out.
Would you be in favor of physician-assisted suicide?
Okay.
I think that people should have freedoms over their body.
I think that their body should be their own, it should not be property of the state, that their genetics should not be the property of the state, and their lives should not be the property of the state, it should be themselves.
And if we had a world where people could live a long and fruitful life and decide to check out when they were bored, that would, I think, be rather ideal.
boy you've got some road to go down i'll tell you uh...
uh...
uh... realized that you know medicine as we know it today uh... at least the
hippocratic uh... or that you know the hippo the hippocratic model of medicine has been around
uh... probably you know or you know gail and at least uh...
since the time i gail and so
you know the modern medicine or not modernist about model of medicine
updates back to uh... you know uh... pre-christian days uh... you know
many hundreds of years pre-christian days
and it's only been very recently that physicians have not engaged in
assisted suicide well actually
Behind the scenes, they really still do.
It happens every day.
It does.
It's rather gruesome, though.
In the old days, and not so very old days, I mean, during World War II, but up until the 1960s, it was commonplace for the night nurse in British hospitals to walk around
with an atomizer filled with pneumococcal
vaccine pneumococcal Bacteria and sprayed up the nostrils of elderly patients
and nursing homes to induce a pneumonia It was called the old the old the old man's friend. I'd
never heard that Oh absolutely true medical history until the 1960s and
induced in the in the in the older folks who were suffering to work
no longer having good quality of life being all to worry uh...
really you know in pain or discomfort
uh... and especially inducing a pneumonia that would rapidly
uh... eliminate them our doctors routinely used to give overdoses of
uh... morphine well i i i don't know i have a very good friend uh... who
just passed away of cancer uh... in the last year
uh... frankly the doses of morphine became greater and greater and greater
A visiting nurse would give them.
And there, I do believe, came a point where, I guess the death certificate certainly read cancer, but the direct cause of death really was an overdose of morphine.
Is that common?
It was very common until very recently.
And it's only the medical legal issues that prevent doctors from doing that today.
And I don't really know, I mean, I don't want to get into an argument arguing for physicians playing the role of anything other than healers.
But that is within the role.
In other words, why should somebody have to endure the pain of the final, horrid stages of a cancer?
Bingo.
That's the point.
And there are a lot of people saying that we're under-medicating, that physicians are under-medicating and they're doing it because of the damn DEA.
Bingo.
You're absolutely correct, Art.
And that's another issue entirely, and it's a huge disservice to the American public.
What do we have to do to get that changed?
Well, I don't want to say the word, but it begins with an R. Oh, the R word.
Yeah.
It would be that serious?
I mean, can't there be some sort of social change short of that?
It would take a lot.
You see, the drug industry or the anti-drug industry is so inculcated in the U.S.
government.
Drug enforcement alone is, what, $15 billion a year in direct costs?
Oh, yes.
And in indirect costs, in our government, we're spending probably more like $50 billion a year.
Something like 75% of those imprisoned in this country are imprisoned on drug-related offenses.
Physicians are so afraid to deal with narcotics or anything associated with drugs for fear of losing their license or being in prison themselves that they let hundreds if not thousands, excuse me, they let thousands if not tens of thousands of people suffer needlessly.
Yesterday was election day, and here in Nevada we had something called Proposition 9.
Nevada's one of the toughest states.
Marijuana possession can get you a felony conviction.
It's very serious.
And by 58%, I just learned, we passed Prop 9 for medical marijuana use in Nevada.
Absolutely an astounding result.
Other states are passing it as well.
And there is this incredible struggle now going on with the federal government.
Do you have any comment on that?
Well, I think it goes back to this issue of control over our bodies.
The government wants total control over, you know... God, I don't want to get into this, Art, but I'll do it for you.
And this is just my opinion.
I am not speaking for the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, either.
So, you know, I want to be very clear in that.
But it's my opinion that We live in an age where our government wants to control us to such an extent that they think nothing of controlling our health, controlling our education, our destiny.
This is just an outgrowth of it.
There are certain things.
One's health certainly should be in one's own hands.
But we've relinquished that control, and that's why we suffer from all these ills of the health care system that frankly doesn't work.
Your doctor, by the way, is not working for you anymore.
Your doctor is more likely working for your insurance company, because your insurance company pays his bills.
And when you stop paying your doctor for health care services, you stop having a doctor.
Your insurance company has a doctor, not you.
I have personally spoken with a number of I'd like to be able to do this, but I can't do it because they check my records and I could lose my license.
while you're alone with the most of them i'd like to be able to do this but i can't do it
because they check my records and
i i could lose my license yes you're on computer
uh... and the pharmacist is on computer and uh... the dvd can pull up to pull up your record in a
in a moment's notice and uh... state licensing boards uh... think nothing
As a matter of fact, they thrive on yanking the licenses of doctors who fall out of step with the quote-unquote established norms.
And so if you have a compassionate physician who writes for too many pain pills, and they could all be for completely justified and reasonable reasons, He's going to get investigated at the very best, and I've known doctors who have had their licenses yanked for the most minor, minor irregularities, or really no irregularities at all, just trying to practice medicine according to their own conscience.
So people in final stages of very painful cancers cannot be treated properly.
We're at that point.
I always ask guests in this last hour.
I've got one last hour of the program.
It's all yours if you want it, but I need a decision.
Sure, Art.
For you, happy to continue.
All right, my friend.
One more hour it shall be.
Good morning, everybody, from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Between you and another computer or it was recording your thoughts, I believe that the
ultimate embodiment of this technology is such that it will be able to record not just
your vision and your hearing, but that it will be able to record emotion, blood pressure,
maybe haptile sensation, and ultimately perhaps even states of consciousness.
I don't know whether we're anywhere near the point where you can have a device that can
read your mind, but there certainly are technology out there that can read whether you're agitated,
happy, sad, etc.
Well, what I was wondering is if, you know, you...
You can change your attitude, which can change how you feel and how you are.
So, if you were consciously or subconsciously trying to do that, could that pick up inaccurate information?
It really wouldn't because that's how you are at the moment.
I believe that the purpose of this is to record literally a lifetime's worth of thoughts, feelings and experience.
Even if you were that way for a moment and you were making pretend, that's not the way you're going to be throughout your entire life.
So what are they going to do with all of these downloaded thoughts and moments of people?
You know, that's a very good question, ma'am.
One horrid little answer is, if you think you liked the last movie that you went to, imagine being able to plug into somebody else's life, especially the high points or the low points.
What do you think, doctor?
I think you're absolutely right, Art.
I think that's the potential of these technologies, is to literally be able to experience someone else in a very personal and intimate way, a way that you may not want other people to experience your life.
That's exactly right.
Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klotz.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Where are you?
This is Mary in Marysville.
Alright, Mary.
Hi, Doctor.
Hello, Art.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, Doctor, but I have a question.
If we extend the life of people by, say, 20 years, have you considered the impact on the world, specifically, how would we feed and house all of these people, considering we cannot now, for whatever reason, seem to house and feed everyone now?
You've asked the best question, the best I've yet been asked, not just tonight, but overall with regard to criticism of anti-aging medicine.
The only criticism that I have heard leveled at the concept of anti-aging medicine is the potential issue with regard to world population and this is how I answer it.
The knee-jerk response and the immediate thing that the individual might come to is, oh my goodness, we're going to have all these people alive on the planet.
There's already six billion of us here on the planet.
We're already getting to the point where it seems as if we're pushing the carrying capacity of this planet to its limit.
Oh, isn't that a horrible thing?
And that's true, it is a horrible thing, but when you look at When you look at the relationship between life expectancy, quality of life, and the birth rate, an interesting thing turns up.
In the first world, the United States and Western Europe, the countries that have the highest standard of living have the lowest birth rate.
The replacement rate for people is about 2.2 per couple.
You'd have to have 2.2 children or 2.3 children per couple in order just to replace yourself?
Okay.
Well in the U.S.
right now, replacement rate is about 1.8, 1.7.
If you look at Italy, it's as low as 1.4.
We're actually in negative population growth.
In Germany, it's about 1.6 per couple.
So in the first world, we're not at Zero population growth.
We're at negative population growth.
If it wasn't for immigration, We would actually be losing populations in the first world.
The reason why the world, the whole world, is continuing to rise in population is because of the third world.
In the third world, the more children you have, the better quality of life you have, and the more social security that you have when you grow old, because if you have a lot of kids, chances are one of them will be around to take care of you when you get old, and one of them will like you if you have enough of them.
Well, let's hope so.
In the first world, however, the more kids you have, the lower the quality of life you will have, the less things you'll have to give to your kids, etc, etc.
And so people are having less and less children.
So if you extrapolate the benefits of anti-aging medicine to the whole planet, It will come a time in the very near future when the third world will realize that the quality of their life does not improve, it actually decreases with more children as the technologies of anti-aging medicine spread across the planet and people can look forward to an extra 20 years of lifespan in good health and not having to rely on their children to care for their social security issues.
How's that?
That's good.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you very much.
And Doctor, hold on.
I've got to get something on the air very quickly here.
We're toward the bottom of the hour.
This is very serious, potentially very serious.
As you know, we've been following this Pegasus signal story for the last several days.
I just will not let go of it.
And Richard Hoagland has now Apparently confirmed that in Australia, a telescope, a compact array in New South Wales, six 22 meter parabolic reflector antennas have confirmed the EQ Pegasi signal.
There is a graph showing that signal.
It is a major radio astronomy facility in Australia.
You need to take a look.
We have a link on my front page now directly to Richard's page.
Thank you, Richard.
And I would like you to quickly, as you can, get to my website and take a look.
I still don't warranty this story as being accurate.
However, this is the first major observatory.
If this report is accurate, it would certainly appear to be.
To be confirming this signal, this is very serious information.
You'll see a link now on my website at www.artbell.com.
This is some world we live in, isn't it?
From the high desert, I beseech you, stay right where you are.
I'm not going to let you go.
Resurrecting drag me through every ravine you can find.
You know, I don't know how you would do it short of something like Jurassic Park.
I'll tell you what's kind of interesting that I've seen is there's a computer program out, I think Carnegie Mellon University did this, and what they did was they came up with actors that would play famous people over history, such as Albert Einstein or Newton or Thomas Edison.
People such as Thomas Jefferson, and they had these people essentially read passages that were attributed to these individuals.
This was put into a computer, an artificial intelligence program, and what you could do was go back and discuss issues with these individuals.
If it happened to be within the repertoire of the computer, you would get answers almost as if the person themselves were speaking it.
Now with regard to resurrecting the dead, you know, when you're dead, you're kind of gone.
And what we consider your humanity resides in your memory, your personality, things of this nature.
So while it might be physically possible, a la Jurassic Park, to take some cells from your, you know, corpse, And, you know, and through some mystical science, magical science that we don't have just yet, but I mean, it's conceivable that we could actually clone up an entity, a clone that would be genetically identical to an individual, say, of Elvis.
But that person would never have Elvis' personality, thoughts, feelings, or experience.
Consciousness, memories, all of that.
Because we hadn't saved it.
Now, say 50 years in the future, if the Soul Catcher works, and we have the recorded existence of an individual from day one to, you know, the last day, then maybe this resurrection concept might be more than just science fiction.
What a world that would be.
Can you close your eyes and can you imagine if The Soul Catcher came to pass, Doctor, what kind of world it would be?
Well, you know, Art, I have a very hard time, and I like to think I have a good imagination.
Certainly, I've read enough comic books when I was a kid to kind of give me a good basis in fantasy.
But I have a hard time imagining the world 20 years from now.
I mean, from a purely hardcore scientific point of view, that's how fantastic the developments are coming, and how fast and furious they're coming.
Once we are able to have a digital cerebral interface, where you can somehow have input directly from the computer into your consciousness and back, then we evolve into another state of existence altogether, because forget keyboards, forget TV or computer screens, there will be instantaneous transfer of information between the computer and us, and the creation of artificial worlds that make virtual reality look like a garotype.
Well, already, Doctor, our military has pilots that are able to think commands and have them happen in jet fighters.
That's true.
Able to arm and fire missiles, able to do all kinds of things at the speed of thought.
Once to the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
Hi.
Good morning.
Good morning to you.
This is Reggie.
I'm calling from Carson City.
I used to call you from Vallejo.
Yes, sir.
I'd like to know if the doctor is familiar with Gardner Syndrome.
Gardner Syndrome?
With familial polyposis, is that what we're talking about?
Yes, sir.
Not terribly familiar, but maybe I can answer your question.
Well, this Sunday I'll be 41, and with the history of my family, that means I have like eight years to live.
Well, you certainly are at high risk of colon cancer.
That's already taken care of.
You lost your colon?
Pardon me?
You had your colon removed?
Correct.
Then I guess I'm at a loss.
How does the syndrome get you if it's not colon cancer?
Well, it can be with brain tumors or just a tumor inside your abdominal cavity.
I was not aware of that.
What I would do if I were you, sir, is there is a... Alright, I'm sorry.
I don't mean to pump my conference.
But the A4M Conference, the Academy of Anti-Aging Conference in Las Vegas in December, is going to focus the entire first day on the early detection, prevention, and reversal of cancer.
Which is exactly what he's talking about.
And that's exactly what you need.
You need to educate yourself.
You need to be a world's expert in Gardner Syndrome and you need to find out what there is out there in a way of technology that can prevent you from suffering the fate of other members of your family.
If there is a new technology that will address that, the chances are good that it will be at the World Congress of Anti-Aging Medicine in Las Vegas.
All right.
First time caller of the line, not a lot of time.
You're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
Hi.
Good morning.
I'm calling from Whitehall, Illinois.
Yes, sir.
My name is David.
I've got a question about a late night infomercial I see once in a while.
There's a doctor promoting some kind of a formula for A good health.
It's based on like alkaline and acidic.
And he says you need to change your system from acidic to alkaline.
In other words, get it back in some type of a sink the way we were meant to be.
No doubt proper pH for your body.
Right.
And I was wondering if the doctor had something to say about that.
And my mother listens to you almost every night.
She's 81.
And keep up the good work, Art.
Thank you and take care.
To answer the question, sir, the issue of alkaline and acidity is an interesting one.
It has a lot to do with physiology.
Whether it has a benefit from a preventive medicine point of view in healthy individuals is kind of still up in the air.
I wish I could give you a better answer than that, but that's where the science stands right now.
There are a lot of claims, but the science is still kind of open-ended.
Certainly, if you're ill, altering pH might be a very helpful thing to do, but if you're well to begin with, the body has incredible mechanisms for maintaining proper pH.
How do you know what your pH is?
Well, the only way you can know for sure is to buy a test strip, you know, at your local pharmacy.
It's like test paper.
It's like testing your hot tub.
Well, it is.
I mean, you do a test strip in the hot tub.
You're exactly right.
It's in your pool.
Yeah.
And it's pH paper, and you can either put a little drop of saliva or a drop of urine on the test paper, hopefully, maybe even both, and you can determine what your body pH is, and there's certain norms that you run within, and if you're either too acid or too alkaline, then you may not be in the picture of health.
So then, how do you adjust it?
I mean, with a hot tub, you dump some chemicals in and you're all set.
Well, with your body, you can adjust it basically with your foods, the foods that you eat.
If you eat green, leafy vegetables, these things tend to be more alkalizing.
And most people run more acid than they do alkaline.
And so the point is, either through nutritional products, which are basically condensed food, or through altering your diet, you can add more alkaline to your diet to change the pH of your body.
I don't like green leafy vegetables, and what a cruel trick God has played on us.
Why, Doctor, do you suppose that everything that is good for us Tastes bad, and everything that is bad for us tastes good.
You ever wonder about that?
Well, I have, and I haven't come up with any better answers than you.
I suppose the good Lord is just testing us.
Alright, one last time.
The Anti-Aging Conference, 11, 12, and 13.
And the telephone number?
The phone number is 1-800-634-6133.
It's the world's largest anti-aging exposition.
It's in Las Vegas.
And Art, I'm hoping you're going to be there.
And this is free to any of Art Bell listeners who want to become members
of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
All they have to do is dial 1-800-634-6133.
Doctor, I'll come to you on the line in a moment and get whatever secrets we're going to discuss.
That's it for tonight.
EQ Pegasi.
Go take a look.
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