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Oct. 30, 1998 - Art Bell
01:20:07
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ghost to Ghost 1998 hour1&2 RC Hoagland, Seth Shostak - EQ Pegasi
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Time Text
So, I'm going to play a little bit of it.
From the high desert in the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good
morning as the case may be.
Boy, do I have news for you.
Serious news for you this night on what we call Ghosts to Ghosts AM.
So stand by.
I'm developing information as of air time.
Information that, uh, I think is shocking, to say the least.
Anyway, from the Hawaiian and Tiengishan Islands out west there in the Pacific, to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands south, all the way into South America, north to the pole.
And thank God for broadcast.com worldwide on the Internet.
You'll see why in a moment.
This is Coast to Coast and Beyond in more ways than one AM.
I'm Martel.
Hi.
Okay.
I'm going to hold the second and really whopper piece of information for a few moments.
First, I want to tell you something that you may or may not believe.
Ghosts are real.
Whatever they are, I don't know.
Whether they are souls trapped, whether they are souls... whether they're not souls.
Whatever they are, there's absolutely something as real and concrete as, I would say on Dreamland, as the air you breathe but don't see.
And we're going to be talking about that tonight.
The only thing we're going to be talking about is that, with one exception.
And I'm going to begin the discussion with one of the most remarkable photographs You're ever gonna see.
I got it earlier in the day, thanks to my good wife who's opening the mail.
And it's a heart-stopper.
It comes with a letter from Myrtle Creek, Oregon.
Dear Mr. Bell, My name is Kim Moore.
I live in Myrtle Creek, Oregon.
It's a very nice lady.
I recently, she says, went to Bartlesville, Oklahoma to visit in-laws.
My brother-in-law is a firefighter.
There I was shown a photographic picture that was taken by yet another firefighter, a chief in fact, in Nixa, Missouri.
That's N-I-X-A, Missouri.
A shed was being burned for a practice fire.
You know, fire departments do that kind of thing.
They burn sheds and other things to practice putting out fires.
The fire burst into a big flame that was bigger than expected.
The fire chief took the opportunity to take a picture.
And I hereby submit this picture to you.
In the picture, unmistakably, I'm adding that word, I'm saying unmistakably.
Is the image of an Indian warrior.
Now, I see an Indian warrior as clear as can be on a horse.
Later, after the picture was developed, they saw the image.
The firefighters found out later that the shed they burned was on Indian burial grounds.
When I saw the image, I got chills.
Hope you enjoy it.
Thank you, Kim Moore.
Well, that's a handwritten letter.
And I sent the photograph and the handwritten letter to Keith Roland.
Where is it?
You know it's on my website right now.
And if you want a chill for the night, if not the rest of the year, you're going to want to make it up to my website right away and take a look at this image.
It is remarkable.
I'm working another big story that normally, well, normally nothing could interrupt Ghost to Ghost AM, but this will briefly.
I cannot ignore it.
So stand by for big story number two, but whatever else you do, get up to my website and take a look at this photograph.
You're going to want to archive this.
Believe me, you're going to want to archive this.
If this doesn't do it for you, why, nothing can be done for you.
Remember, this is, in fact, the text of the letter is up there as well.
Gonna want to grab that, too.
This is the one, folks.
But stand by for possibly even bigger news.
Nothing to lose but the fact.
This is a night when we do nothing but take ghost stories from all of you.
However, what I am about to impart to you, I think, is so urgent that it requires that I take a little time out and do so.
It may even require repeating in the next hour.
And I want to be cautious here, very cautious, because we're dealing with a very big issue.
You may recall the other day, we got news and, in fact, put up news of A what purported to be a SETI hit.
That's the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
A system, uh, in the Pegasus System.
E-Q-Pegasi.
That's, I'm probably mispronouncing that, but, um, we actually have screenshots of this signal that was being received by somebody who claims he's going to hold a news conference next week on Tuesday.
A signal that should not be there.
So I picked up the phone and I did what I should do.
I called Seth Shosack.
And Seth is in the SETI program now.
He doesn't have a dish that he can look at right now.
He said he thought it was a hoax.
Might be a hoax.
Unfortunately, Seth didn't have access to a dish and couldn't check it out immediately or he would have been there.
He said it right then and there.
I'd be there checking it out.
But if you listen to Seth, as I pinned him down a little bit, he became a little bit circumspect about the whole thing.
And it did acknowledge that you never know.
Which I thought at the time was interesting today.
I received the following.
And again, I reference you, ladies and gentlemen, to my website.
This is a separate confirmation of the signal that was said to be a hoax.
Maybe it's not a hoax.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
I was listening to your October 28th show via the World Wide Web, as I occasionally do.
And I heard the report that you did with a fellow from SETI about signals possibly received from the star EQ Pegasi.
That's P-E-G-A-S-I.
I heard your appeal to other radio amateurs to try and verify the alleged signals.
Being that I was equipped to do so, I went to work straight away on this mystery.
Now, I normally work stations in the 23 centimeter band around 1296 megahertz.
That's very close, by the way, and 1296 is indeed an amateur frequency.
We use it for all kinds of things.
Anyway, he goes on, I have an ICOM 8500 at a very large dish, 4.5 meters, or about half the size as the one used by that engineer.
This engineer, folks, who claims to be holding a news conference on Tuesday.
So... I was almost fully equipped to follow up on this potentially earth-shaking discovery.
I set the dish to that ascension and declination, and set my radio to scan between 1445 and 1455 megahertz.
There was noise, but as soon as EQ Pegasi rose at about 1230 UTC, that's universal time,
it wasn't long before my computer locked the radio on 1453.8273, due to a carrier
pictured as the first red dots, and began logging the Doppler shifting signal that you can see in
in the enclosed screenshot gif.
Gif, actually.
Again, the exact frequency was 1453.8273, with a significant drift.
If this drift is due to a satellite, it really has some kind of unstable oscillator, which just so happens to mimic the Earth's rotation and rotation of some other unknown body.
Some differences between my detection and the ones posted on your site.
The signal is much weaker than was talked about between you and Seth, which may indicate it being, in fact, extraterrestrial rather than Earth-bound.
Or Earth-bound interference.
I tuned my dish ten degrees away five times after the detection you see in the GIF.
GIF.
Excuse me, I'll call it a GIF forever.
And each time the signal went away, each time I brought it back to the coordinates of EQ Pegasite, it reappeared.
I also plotted some 2,000 artificial satellite space probes, etc., against the beamwidth of my dish, and none had the right frequency or the right orbital characteristics to account for the Doppler shift shown in the picture.
Yes, we have that in this text on my website now.
I had first thought all of this a hoax, but I decided to see for myself.
Now, now that I've verified this signal, I'm pretty confident that contact has indeed been made.
I will continue to track this object, whatever it is, and log as much data as possible.
73s, K.F.
Benton, his name.
His call letters, GU0NHB, At Castle Guernsey in the UK, offshore, near Normandy.
I have additional messages tonight indicating it may or may not be true.
I have no way of knowing that Harvard has apparently focused its array, for some reason, on the Pegasus system.
So my sense of it is Ladies and gentlemen, there is something going on.
There's something going on.
I believe there to be something going on.
From New Mexico, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to NASA.
Richard C. Hoagland, investigator into the Cydonia region of Mars and the Moon and so much more.
One-time advisor to Walter Cronkite on television for the launch of John Glenn back into space.
That, Richard C. Oglen.
Richard, welcome to the program.
Been a while, huh?
Good evening, Art.
It certainly has, and welcome back.
Thank you.
So, you heard what I just read.
Yes.
We've got these independent signals along with independent screenshots up on my website right now.
Yeah, I am on the web as we speak.
What the hell is going on?
Well, I don't want to get out ahead of ourselves here, but I think that the last couple of nights could be historic.
This is looking better and better and better
let me tell you what the engineer in question now has an identity his name is paul
door d o r e he is a well-known engineer with the british military
industrial complex all right this is now
that the first engineer the one that people of declared uh...
his information was a hoax
The so-called Mr. Anonymous.
Yes, Mr. Anonymous.
So we now know who that is.
And he is, again, who please?
His name is Paul Dore.
D-O-R-E.
And if you go to your website, to the links that Keith has established, and you just click on them, you'll find your way to a very lengthy bio.
Which includes his education, his military experience, his radar experience, electronic experience, the companies he's worked for.
This guy is not a lightweight.
He is a heavyweight.
Okay?
Right.
Number two, he is working with two radio astronomers from the Effelsberg Radio Observatory in Effelsberg, Germany, which is a 300-foot, steerable radio telescope.
It's 50 feet bigger than John Roe Bank, which is in England.
It's the biggest radio telescope in Europe.
And apparently he was able to convince two astronomers there who prefer at the moment tonight to remain unknown, to confirm his observations.
Now their dish is ten times bigger than the one he was using, which was thirty feet.
So the signal will be a hundred times greater.
And remember earlier in the evening when you called me we had an interesting little discussion about what this might be?
Yes.
There was a report on the Business Wire earlier from, I believe, an astronomer at Boston University claiming it was a hoax.
There is now on this website some rather interesting posts from the engineer in response to these various allegations.
He absolutely says it's not a hoax, that he mixed up some images he posted two nights ago just because he was so excited, and one can certainly understand that.
These independent confirmations you just read, plus others that are coming in, plus the fact that the Harvard experiment you cited is the Agassiz Station radio telescope.
It's a 60-foot radio telescope located up in northeastern Massachusetts.
Right.
You're also then getting independent confirmation that Harvard is looking real hard at Agassiz right now?
This is the Planetary Society's beta experiment in SETI.
Which has been partially funded by people like Steven Spielberg.
Up until the 27th, a couple days ago, they would post on the web every 10 minutes an update of what their telescope was seeing in the way of live signals.
On the 27th, they suddenly shut all that down and they have only been updating once per day.
And Doerr, when he was asked about this, says, this does not surprise me one bit.
We have had a hard time observing since this was publicized.
It seems that at times the signal is being wiped out by a close-by noise source, though I won't go as far as to say it's intentional jamming.
Additionally, I have had a car with government tags shadowing me for the last few days since my identity was revealed on the Internet.
I am not the paranoid type, as I said before.
I don't trust many people, and that includes the government.
It's just my nature.
Life is just never going to be boring for me, Richard.
Hold on, please.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Sorry to delay Ghost to Ghost AM, but I think you see why.
this is Ghost2Go's day out.
I'm here with my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend,
my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend,
I've got to get you out of my sight.
It is, and I can barely catch my breath.
We're on to a big story here, folks.
A really big story.
If you're trying to get into my website right now, get in line.
It's going to be a little slow in coming up because it's getting slammed, and for good reason.
For a very good reason.
We may have cooperating information on a signal from the Pegasus system.
I think speculation about what it is would be wrong at this point, or to tell you that it's absolutely true would be wrong at this point.
But as Richard, I'm sure, will confirm here in a moment, the dots are beginning to connect a favorite to Hoaglandism.
And so what I'm going to do is bring Richard back just to finish up right now, and we're going to come back at you next hour and repeat this information.
Richard?
Yes, sir.
So you're telling me that this mysterious, anonymous engineer is not a mysterious, anonymous engineer?
No, he's one of the establishments.
His name is Paul Doerr, D-O-R-E.
He's been with the British Military Industrial Complex for probably a couple of decades, given his, you know, curriculum vitae.
He's very impressive, he's had a lot of experience, and one of the remarkable things, you know, your show is the hallmark of speculation, so I do want to speculate just a bit here.
The thing that's blowing everybody away, and the reason that Seth the other night thought this might be a hoax, is the power of the signal.
I mean, this thing is coming in on the equivalent of a souped-up, you know, amateur backyard satellite dish.
It's strong.
Now, in this latest report, we have 4.5 meters.
That's a pretty good-sized dish, actually.
Well, 1.5 meters is the one that the amateur who faxed you is using.
Yes.
All right?
That's not that big.
1.5 meters is... No, no, no.
Wait a minute.
Let's see.
Again, the one that faxed me...
uh... is using an icon eighty five hundred and uh... a rather large dish
four point five years because i have a one point five meter dish
four point five all right well i'm reading your four point five meters or
about half the size of the one used by that engineer
all right four point five meters so i thought On the website, he says 1.5.
It might be a misprint.
It's a misprint.
It's 4.5 meters.
I've got the original email in my hand.
Well, even so, this is not a John Grobank or an Arecibo.
So, what we're looking at here is something that's incredibly powerful.
Now, the problem is, this signal, if we're looking at the stars that it appears to be coming from, in the direction of those stars, those are two little M-type red dwarf stars, very dim, about one ten thousandth the brightness of the sun, orbiting around each other, about 22 light years away.
Which is not just next door, I mean by galactic standards it is, but by radio standards that's a fur piece.
So the signal strength at the source, if it's at the stars, 22 light years distant, is enormous, it's humongous.
The engineer, Paul Doerr, was asked this afternoon what he thought the signals were, and I'm going to quote what he says.
Which goes back to what I was saying off the air earlier.
Yes.
Because I was telling you that I thought this was a probe.
This is a ship.
This is an object, an artificial object, if it's real again, with that caveat, much closer to the solar system than the stars.
Coming in, like a bat out of you know what, heading directly for us.
Richard, theirs or ours?
Theirs.
And think of the signal.
If it's transmitting on the hydrogen frequency, which is 1420, and if we're receiving it at 1453, then the Doppler shift would give us the velocity of approach.
And we can figure that out in the next break, okay?
And we should see some interesting things, because if it's that close, it might be destined to land.
This is their way of telling us they're on the way.
And that would square with the Defense Department information I have regarding December 7th.
Remember, we have inside data from the Pentagon on December 7th and something happening in the Southwest.
Let me read you what Doar says.
He says, when asked what he thought the signals were, he said, that would be speculation and I would rather not speculate.
Everybody says that.
However, my expertise is in radar.
I worked on radar systems for the RAF and I feel that this is most likely a radar or navigational signal, perhaps intended for an interstellar probe that just happens to be in our general direction.
Again, due to the nature of my work, he says I am somewhat biased.
There's a term for this art, it's called a Bracewell probe.
I have a full paper by Bracewell sitting here on the desk, which at the top of the hour I will read a little excerpt from.
Well, I have a term for it, too, but I'd be thrown off the air if I used it.
All right, Richard.
Look, let's give people an opportunity to get to the website and see it.
They can go to two websites because we're on two separate servers.
We also have the link to the site I'm reading from.
Is it on your site?
It's on Enterprise as well as on ArcBell.
Well, unfortunately, Enterprise and the Art Bell site are served by the same servers, which are right now on their knees.
Well, not according to our master web guy.
All right, then.
Mytrienterprisemission.com.
Yep.
All right, Richard.
I'll talk to you into the next hour, okay?
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
Good Lord.
And again, let me try and Catch my breath for a second here, because dealing with this as it breaks around airtime, this always happens to me.
This always happens to me.
It is almost impossible on a night when I had planned to do nothing but ghost stories.
I will say this.
It was at least three years ago that somebody in Arizona mailed me what I consider to be one of the best ghost photographs ever taken.
It, of course, Was stolen and it's all over the net now.
Because people do that.
But I now have received what I consider to be something as good or better than that photograph.
And believe me, I get a lot of supposed ghost photographs.
When you see this one, if it doesn't put a chill down your spine, then you are not chillable.
That's what I would say.
This is This is the damnedest picture I ever saw.
And again, a fire department chief took the picture in Nixon, Missouri, as they were burning a practice fire, a shed.
They burned a shed.
And the photograph, clearly, it just jumps out at you as being an Indian on a horse.
I mean, it just jumps out.
When they developed the photograph, because of the startling nature of the photograph, they went back and looked at the history of the land upon which this shed sat, and it was an Indian burial ground, so if you want, if you really want something that'll put a shiver down your spine, get up to my website, Pronto, and take a look.
And I know what I'm doing to myself here, because my site is, while we can handle a very great deal of bandwidth, this one's out of control, because we've got two things for you to go after.
So, we will attempt to proceed with ghost-to-ghost AM as Halloween approaches, actually, now, sweeping across the country.
Already Halloween on the East Coast.
Already Halloween Midwest.
And it's sweeping my direction, so here it comes.
Anyway, let me catch my breath, and we'll be right back.
There may be somebody out there taking a ride, and they may be coming in our direction.
Good morning, everybody.
This is what has traditionally been called Ghost to Ghost AM.
This night, we tell ghost stories.
It's Halloween.
So of course we tell them, and they're real, and we'll get to them shortly.
As a matter of fact, I've got something really hot for you if you get up to my website in the ghost category.
However, I'm afraid I've got something even bigger.
I've got a big, big story that's brewing at this hour as we speak.
It involves a signal from Pegasus, the one that Everybody started to think it was a hoax?
Well, guess what?
Maybe, just maybe, it's not a hoax.
I have new information, and we're going to gather it together and present it to you one more time in a moment.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Ghost to Ghost AM.
Sit down, call your friends, turn the radio up.
This is either Orson Welles, 50 years later, Alright, let me try and develop this information as chronologically as I'm able.
As you all know from listening the other night, if you did listen, there was a big stir.
An anonymous astronomer from Great Britain supplied screen dumps, that's a picture of a screen ...of an apparent signal that he claimed was coming from EQ Pegasi.
The star in the Pegasus constellation, I guess.
EQ Pegasi is... Richard Hoagland will in a moment explain to you what this system is.
It's a double star system.
But we had several days worth of signals that he claimed were coming from the star system.
Not natural signals!
And so, my first inclination, since I know somebody in SETI, Seth Shostak, was to call him.
And I did, and I got him on the air.
And Seth thought it was a hoax.
Now, unfortunately, SETI, at the moment, does not have access to it.
They just got back from Arecibo.
Uh, where they were, uh, chased out by a hurricane that was threatening, uh, very significantly the area they packed up and got the hell out.
Don't blame them.
So, I asked Seth on the night he was here, if you had a dish, Seth, where would it be?
And oh, he said Pegasus.
No question about it.
Uh, but he said and he gave several reasons why he thought it was so that the, that it might be a hoax.
He was a little circumspect when I pressed him.
He said, no, it could be real, I can't rule it out, but it looks like a hoax.
Well, tonight there is significant new information.
I received hours before airtime a message that I am about to read you from a man named K.F.
Benton, whose hand call is GU0NHD in, I believe it's Castell, Hello, Mr. Bell.
I was listening to your October 28th show via live the World Wide Web, as I occasionally do, and I heard the report you did with a fellow from SETI about signals possibly received from the Star EQ Pegasi, that's P-E-G-A-S-I.
I learned, uh, I heard, rather, your appeal to other radio amateurs to try and verify the alleged signals, meaning that I was equipped to do so.
I went to work straight away on this mystery.
I normally work stations in the 23 centimeter band around 1296 megahertz.
As a matter of fact, we use that frequency and I can monitor that frequency here on the
Unfortunately, I don't have an ASL dish.
That's my comments.
He goes on, I have an ICOM ED500 and a very large dish, 4.5 meters, or about half the size as the one used by that engineer.
So, I was almost fully equipped to follow up on this potentially earth-shaking discovery.
I set the dish to that Ascension and Declination, and set my radio to scan between 1445 and 1455 MHz.
There was noise, but as soon as EQ Pegasi rose around 1230 Universal Time,
it wasn't long before my computer locked the radio on 1453.8273.
1453.8273.
I repeat, 1453.8273, due to a carrier, pictured as the red dots, and again logging the Doppler shifting signal that you can see in the enclosed screenshot, GIF.
Again, the exact frequency was 1453.8273.
He adds with a significant drift.
Yeah.
If this drift is due to a satellite, then it really has an unstable oscillator, which just so happens to mimic the Earth's rotation and the rotation of some other unknown body.
Some differences between my detection and the ones posted on your site.
The signal is much weaker than was talked about by you and Seth, which may indicate
being in fact extraterrestrial rather than earthbound interference. So, I tuned my dish
10 degrees away five times after the detection you see in the GIF, and each time the signal went away.
And each time I brought it back to the coordinates of EQ Pegasi, it reappeared.
I also plotted some 2,000 artificial satellites, space probes, etc.
Against the beam width of my dish, and none had the right frequency or the right orbital characteristics to account for the Doppler shift shown in the picture.
I had at first thought all of this a hoax, but I decided to see for myself.
Now that I've verified the signal, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty confident, that contact has indeed been made.
I will continue to track this object, whatever it is, whatever it is, and log as much data as possible.
73, so that's a ham thing.
KF Benton, GU0, NHD, Chester, Guernsey, UK, offshore, near Normandy.
So, that kind of rocked my boat, folks, to say the least.
It rocked my boat.
I picked up the phone and I called Richard C. Hoagland, long known on this program and advisor to NASA, Walter Cronkite, who was on TV earlier in the day for the launch of John Glenn, the relaunch of John Glenn in space.
And Richard has more information.
The first astronomer, the one who was anonymous, apparently is no longer anonymous.
Now, before going to Richard and letting him tell you what he knows, let me tell you what I have done.
I have posted this photograph, which is very different than the other one, but confirming the other one, on my website.
I now make an appeal to all radio amateurs, anybody with a sufficiently large dish and an ASL mount, azimuth elevation type mount, To take a look at EQ Pegasi, which I'm probably mispronouncing, and a very specific frequency, there'll be some Doppler shift apparently, but a very specific frequency, again, 1453.8273.
Folks, it would appear we're getting a signal for the rest of the story, From New Mexico, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning again.
I want to be sure people get this because I know that a lot of calls are streaking across the country right now.
My God, you've got to turn on the radio and listen.
So, what have you found out?
Well, first of all, you can also go to the Enterprise website.
Keith has linked to this Hall Canaveral of GeoCities site, which is kind of a clearinghouse For the information on the engineer and on the press conference that's going to be scheduled for next week on the 4th of November and a lot of other data including the gifts that you described before.
They're posted on this site.
So you just go to your site, Art Bell, or you go to our site EnterpriseMission.com and the first item is basically the link to this clearinghouse site where all the latest data is being posted.
And on this site there is an interview from the engineering not only is not a strong reason
amateur astronomer who was apparently bootlegging a thirty foot dish
at the company where he works right uh... his name is paul dory or paul door d o r e
and he has a very excellent resume which is also posted on this site
It goes on for several pages.
Until this moment, just about anonymous, all of a sudden he's not anonymous.
Well, there's a very assiduous British press corps, which have done what, you know, the press over here, you know, they're over there not caring about Monica, so they go and get real stories.
Anyway, they dug out his name and his bio and his curriculum B.I. and they posted the
whole thing and he's a very well-known engineer with excellent credentials, has been in the
British military industrial complex for a couple of decades, worked on a lot of major
projects.
He's basically a radar and electronics expert who has an aficionado interest in radio astronomy.
And apparently on the 22nd, if I can read here carefully, he picked this thing up and
tried to notify some of the official SETI sites, the SETI league which is based in New
I can confirm that from my interview the other night with Seth.
And they basically have given him a cold shoulder.
Right.
You know, the non-inventor club.
Right.
Which is probably one reason why we're not getting a lot of clamorings of confirmations from the official SETI community, because it's, well, we know how those folks act.
Anyway, so he wanted to keep his name secret, and his identity secret, because he's employed by this aerospace company.
Obviously he didn't want to lose his job for using equipment.
Apparently he bootlegged some kind of feed horn on this little dish and set up electronics so he could kind of observe quietly with no one knowing, and he didn't want to blow his cover until he was sure he'd really found something.
So he emails his discovery frames from the computer, the plots from the screen, the so-called screen dumps, of the signal strength and the frequency and all that.
And in his haste, he made a mistake.
He apparently sent two frames of the same shot as opposed to two different frames, and everybody says, oh, it's a hoax.
When, in fact, he sent later ones, it demonstrates that the first postings were just, you know, nervous error.
Now we've got this second guy from Guernsey, who's a radio amateur who heard you, and who went and looked, and lo and behold, there's something there.
And now, Dohr says that he has been joined by two radio astronomers out of Effelsberg, Germany, which is the location of the most powerful professional radio astronomy telescope in Europe.
It's even bigger than the 250-foot at Jodrell Bank in England.
Oh, my.
It's a 300-foot dish in Effelsberg, Germany.
It's got state-of-the-art equipment.
It's, you know, fully steerable.
And they apparently have confirmed the signal and are preparing to support Dohr In a press conference in London for Wednesday, November 4th.
My God.
Now, there are several interesting aspects to this.
One is the signal strength itself.
As we said in the last hour, this thing is booming in.
I mean, if you can pick this thing up on the equivalent of a souped-up backyard satellite dish, it is a humongous signal strength.
That's right.
Which, of course, makes everybody in the professional community say, ah, it's got to be a hoax.
Well, there's another possibility.
And you and I discussed off the air what it might be.
Which is a probe.
It is not a signal coming from a star system.
Or a planet in that system.
Or a planet in that system.
But something coming from that, correct?
But something much closer coming from that system, and it's almost here.
Now, during the break, between our last update, I did a little back-of-the-envelope calculation.
Let me read you what Doar himself says he thinks the signal is.
He says, quote, That would be speculation.
I would rather not speculate.
However, My expertise is in radar.
I've worked on radar systems for the RAF, and I feel that this is most likely a radar or navigation signal, perhaps intended for an interstellar probe that just happens to be in our general direction.
Again, due to the nature of my work, I am somewhat biased.
Well, I have done a little back-of-the-envelope thing here based on the frequency.
Remember, we're getting the signal, according to these two separate sources now, At 1453 megahertz.
That's correct.
The interstellar background song of hydrogen is 1420.
And that's been the preferred kind of waterhole for astronomers to listen for possible SETI signals for the last 30 or 40 years.
If at 1453 we're looking at a moving signal, a Doppler shifted signal, blue shifted because the probe is heading toward us.
Yes.
I calculated how fast it has to be moving.
How fast?
7,000 kilometers per second.
That's about 3% the speed of light.
Now, at that rate of speed, I can calculate, given an estimate of how far away it is, when it will be here.
Or, given our Pentagon source that I described in the last hour, that claims that something interesting is going to happen in the Southwest on December 7th, I can invert the calculation and give you a rough estimate of how far away the thing is, if it is a probe.
It's ten billion miles out from Earth tonight.
Which would account for the signal strength.
You got it.
Which means Pluto's only four billion miles out, so it's only about two, two and a half times farther away than Pluto.
Now in the next several days, depending upon how many other amateurs jump on this, we should see it begin to decelerate, which means the Doppler signal should be shifted.
which would be a dead giveaway that in fact it is a probe it is in our
neighborhood and someone's coming
to dinner richard associated dinner guesses coming to death richard uh...
one other thing we are have also information
that apparently at harvard they've got there equipment train on the pegasus system as well
I have no way of confirming this.
There's a 60-foot radio telescope at the so-called Agassiz Station, which is located in north of eastern Massachusetts, just outside Harvard, the little town of Harvard.
I've been by there many, many times.
It is being run now by the Planetary Society as part of a project called DATA.
It is partially funded by subscriptions from members of the Planetary Society.
That's the space group founded by Carl Sagan, the late Carl Sagan.
And its funding comes in part from a donation from Steven Spielberg.
Up until the 27th of October, these people were putting on the web every 10 minutes the screen dumps of their signal search.
As of the 27th arc, they suddenly have cancelled that, and they are now only doing a summation once per day.
In other words, there's something funny going on.
At Harvard.
Do you have separate confirming information that they are in fact looking in the area of Pegasus?
Yes.
You do?
Yes.
By the way, EQ Pegasi, that's the correct way to pronounce it, a little tiny star system, a double star system, about 22 light years away in the direction of the constellation of Pegasus, the flying horse, which by the way is connected mythologically to Horus, but we won't go there tonight.
Alright.
These are two very dim, red dwarf stars orbiting each other.
M-type red dwarf stars.
Not the kind of place... Yeah.
So Seth was correct where he said it was not likely to harbor... To have an indigenous civilization.
However... Alright, Richard, hold on.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
We've got a break.
So we've got a monstrous story brewing.
It is either a coordinate... a very coordinated...
A sort of a hoax for the 50th anniversary of Orson Welles, or it's the real thing.
We'll be right back.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome to the show.
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Now again, here's Art Bell.
There's exciting, and then there's really exciting.
And then there's almost breathless.
And this is at the almost breathless stage.
Good morning, everybody.
We'll quickly summarize, and then we'll leave this alone for a while.
But it's too big not to explore entirely.
If you want to see the photographs, Now the separate confirming photographs of a signal from the Pegasus system.
Maybe.
They're on my website right now.
From a radio amateur near Normandy.
Confirming of what is now no longer an anonymous engineer's photographs of a signal from the same area.
And I'll confirm this with Richard in a moment, but he said confirmation in Germany now as well, and apparently an awful lot of interest going on at Harvard.
So as a talk show host, if I were a... I'm a talk show host, not a journalist, but if I were a journalist, my nose would be really sniffing this one hard.
And so should yours.
If you want to see, if you want to read about it, go to my site, www.artbell.com, and all I can say is check it out for yourself.
One more thing, any hands across this continent, Canada, America, wherever my voice is heard, if you've got an ASL dish, and you can monitor This frequency, 1453.8273.
By all means, get on it.
If you get it, send me email immediately.
We'll be right back.
Fine.
Alright, this would be the rough 50th anniversary of the Orson Welles War of the Worlds.
Richard?
Um, this is either a very elaborate hoax... Incredible shaggy dog story.
...concocted among many people in different countries, or... It's real.
Or it's real.
And... What's your best guess?
My instincts say, based on the Pentagon stuff we've had in the last couple of months, it's tending toward the real.
But it's not at EQ Pegasi.
I think it's closer, and I think we're in for some astonishing surprises.
I've done some more back-of-the-envelope calculations.
If this thing is coming at us at, like, 4,000 miles per second, which is 3% the speed of light, that, by the way, is 100 times, no, 1,000 times the speed of John Glenn in orbit tonight, okay?
That's a pretty advanced technology by our current public standards, but it's primitive by interstellar standards.
This is near the hydrogen frequency, right?
Yeah, near the hydrogen frequency.
The actual frequency is, as you said, 1453 and change.
The hydrogen frequency is 1420.
If that difference is a Doppler shift, a little shifted, you know, up in frequency because it's heading toward us, then the speed is roughly 4000 miles per second toward us.
And if its arrival date is December 7th, which I think might be an interesting date based on our other intelligence, Based on history, it's an interesting date.
Well, it's also a 19.5 date.
There's another thing that bothers me about this.
I've looked where the star is on the sky.
You know there's a celestial coordinate system for the sky, right?
Right.
It's like you have latitude and longitude on the Earth.
Sure.
You have right ascension, which is basically our angle from Greenwich in the sky.
And you have declination, which is number of degrees north or south.
Well, this thing, this star, EQ Pegasi, this little double star system, is 19.5 degrees north of the celestial equator.
That's its direction.
Its rate of ascension is 23 hours and 30 minutes, which is the tilt angle of the Earth's axis.
In other words, this thing, whatever it is, is being aimed towards at two coordinates that are uniquely intrinsic The planet on which we live.
Could this signal, and I'm beginning to conclude there really is a signal, could this signal be one of our own probes coming back?
Not at 7,000 kilometers per second, Art.
All right, um... I mean, the Pioneers and the Voyagers that we have launched in the last two years... I'm just grasping at straws, you know.
No, this is either an incredible hoax by means of powers In the secret government that are sending hyperdimensional vehicles back toward us to mimic an interstellar contact?
Yes.
Or, it's a real primitive interstellar probe, you know, trundling along at a modest 4,000 miles per second, in which case it will arrive here in the next month or so.
It will have to decelerate.
Depending upon what kind of drive it has, it should be pretty spectacular.
certainly in terms of the radio observations, and this is an incredible time to be alive,
Art, and you broke this the night you returned.
I did, but then, you know, I sat on it because there was suddenly a release of somebody who
said, oh, it's a hoax.
And even with all the screen dumps and all the rest, it was at that point an anonymous
amateur astronomer, engineer, who we now know to be Paul Doerr, who apparently is the real
thing.
Oh yeah, let me read you some of his credentials.
Please do.
He was born on the 30th of September in 1961.
He went to City University in London.
He has a BSc in Electrical and Electronic Engineering, First Class.
H Tech Telecommunications, Level 3.
His work experience includes Marconi Communications Systems Limited.
In 88 he was at Marconi Communications Systems, and then in 93 he went to British Aerospace.
And from 93 to the present, he's been with Siemens Plessy, which is another major British Aerospace company.
His specialty is radar and microwave systems engineering.
He knows what he's talking about, and there's no way on God's Earth this guy would pull a hoax.
No way.
Alright, so that's Paul Dorff.
He's no longer anonymous.
Then we get this message that I've got that seems, you know, as I read it, I'm a ham, I'm slightly familiar, it reads as real.
Or it reads as somebody, if it's a hoax, who knew damn well what they were talking about.
No question about it.
This is significant email I've got here now from near Normandy.
You're telling me, to summarize, that they're also looking at this in Germany?
At the Esselsturm-Himmelsberg radio telescope, which is the biggest dish in Europe, stirrable, 300 feet.
Right, confirming what Doerr is saying, and they're willing to go to this press conference, what, on Tuesday, with Doerr?
On next Wednesday, the 4th of November, the day after our elections, in London, and tell all.
and so all and i presume they'll have wonderful doppler plot at that point
let somebody be into it will know whether this thing is really out of you
know he he he could take a prior approach
okay and once again we also now know or think we know that harvard which was
posting results of its work
up one on an hourly basis Ten minutes.
Ten minutes, excuse me, is now doing so only once a day.
I got a message saying, guess what, Art?
Harvard is looking at Pegasus.
Well, they're down tonight.
I can't even get in.
Their site has been taken down.
What?
You can't get into it.
And then you got information that Harvard is looking at Pegasus, correct?
Well, this is the Planetary Society Project Beta.
under the fed in part by steven spielberg and amateurs you know people who are members of country
society from you know it's a great democratic effort
and they're obviously freaking out alright i mean a freeman would not even look at the fedonia
pictures when carl tried to get him
you know ten years ago so i can imagine that he's not going to put on the web
live signals from an interstellar probe okay richard uh... let's leave it here for now uh... and
let's implore any radiometers in north america
to train any asmr elevation dishes they might have that can look at this
frequency at this star and let's see what we can confirm additionally
I think that's a good, that's a good start.
I think that's important.
Seth Shostak, if you're out there listening, and I bet by now you are, you've got my private number, Seth.
Call it.
I hesitate to pick up the phone and wake up, poor Seth, at this time of night, but I might even do that.
It's only 11.45 in California.
Remember, astronomers do it all night.
Yeah, maybe I'll wake Seth up.
Alright, well listen, Richard, I really thank you for giving us what you've got.
If you get more, I'll be the first to know.
Good enough.
Thank you.
Thanks, Richard.
Take care.
That's Richard C. Hoagland.
And I hope you understand, I have no way of telling you that I know all of this is so.
But alarm bells are going off now all over the place.
I repeat, all over the place.
In my mind, they're going off like crazy.
And it just may be that something, or somebody, is on the way.
It just may be that something in the Pegasus system is, in fact, sending a signal.
As Richard would say, we're beginning to get an awful lot of data points.
Now, if that's not enough reason to go off to my website, let me give you, as we try and return to Ghost to Ghost AM, let me try and give you a really good reason to go to my website.
I've been dreaming of green, red and blue, ice cream and blue,
only you, and I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
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This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
Alright, we're back.
We're back.
And I'm going to delay the caller on the wildcard line for a moment.
And I'm going to bring a real SETI person, Seth Shostak.
On the air.
He's still, I'm convinced, thinks that this is probably a hoax.
But I want to talk to him anyway.
Seth, are you there?
Definitely here.
All right.
You did make it into my website, right?
I did, actually.
And I thank those that may have made that possible by temporarily logging off.
All right.
So an awful lot has happened.
I mean, we got this first Unidentified anonymous group of screen dumps.
And I remember you're saying, well, it's anonymous.
You know, that's a tip-off right there.
Well, now, Seth, it's no longer anonymous.
We know who has been providing this.
Paul Dorr, his name is.
And his complete resume is now up there on the website.
And he's got a planned press conference for Tuesday.
And he says, That he's got confirmation from Germany.
What site was that?
I think he's speaking of the Effelsberg radio telescope that's in the mountains, or kind of big hills, actually, near Bonn, Germany, actually.
It's a large instrument.
I've used it, actually.
How big?
Well, it's 100 meters, so a little more than 300 feet across.
Really big.
Really big.
is specific this time fourteen fifty three dot two seven
uh... with the doppler shift i assume you were able to read the the text of
this latest message from the gentleman uh... near normandy
i was able to read that i have that here yet uh... as you read through that
uh... is there anything that uh... hits you the wrong way well there's nothing that could be the wrong way i i
I don't see anything here that looks suspicious.
I was trying to think of why it is that I think that this is not going to turn out to be our first contact with E.T., much though that would be job security for me.
It certainly would.
Yes, but I don't think so.
But it isn't so much because of what Mr. Benton here from Guernsey is saying.
There are a few things.
One thing is that he has a pretty small dish.
Depending on where I read about him, it's either 1.5 or 4.5 meters.
Well, I have the original email, and there's a misprint.
It is 4.5 meters.
It is 4.5.
Okay, well, at 1453 MHz, which is where he's tuning on the dial to hear this putative ET, that means that the beam, that is, the area of sky that he's sensitive to, is roughly 3 degrees across.
Imagine a circle in the sky about 3 degrees.
For those who can't quite picture what 3 degrees means, it's something like 35 or 36 full moons packed together there on the sky.
Now, that's a pretty big chunk of sky.
Yes, it is.
When we were looking at the EQ-PEG about 4 weeks ago with the Arecibo telescope, and by the way, we didn't find this signal, we found interference, we had a beam there, because our telescope was so much bigger, that's only about 3 arc minutes on the sky.
So that's about one one-hundredth the size of the full moon, not thirty-five full moons.
So that's, you know, a difference of three or four thousand.
Very narrow.
Extremely narrow, and that means, you know, if you find a signal you can say it's coming from that star.
So, point one, and this is maybe not such a critical point, but point one is to speak as if this signal is known to be coming from E2 peg, you know, even if there really were a signal, is wrong, because if you've got this Huge uncertainty, this big blobby beam on the sky, and you can't be sure where the signal's coming from.
The only thing he did say in the email is that when EQPEG cleared the horizon, there it was.
Right.
Well, okay.
He does say that.
He says, shortly thereafter.
Whatever that means.
He also said, and that's okay, I mean, I don't, you know, have any reason to doubt that he picked up the signal.
I think maybe a point worth mentioning here is that anybody who's in the SETI business knows that when you're tuning around the microwave part of the dial, which is where all this action is taking place, you get signals all the time.
All the time.
When we were at Arecibo, every 20 megahertz worth of bandwidth that we were looking at, which is kind of the chunk of the radio dial that we look at at once, had hundreds of signals in it.
Okay?
And that's because everybody and his cousin wants a chunk of the radio spectrum to use for telecommunications, For, you know, connecting cellular phones with satellites and so forth.
I mean, they're just eating up the microwave band like crazy.
So there are signals everywhere.
So picking up the signal in the microwave band is unfortunately all too easy.
There's also radars and stuff like that.
There's a lot of action up there.
If you heard, Seth, that the dish in Germany was confirming, as is said up there, what Paul Dorr and what now this other amateur near Normandy have confirmed, Would you then begin to warm up a little bit, if that was true?
Oh, you bet, Art.
I mean, listen, as I say, I'm not, you know, trying to be intransigent, but I'm just looking at the evidence, and if you had, you know, some of the staff astronomers there at Effelsberg, and they said, you know, this is an extraterrestrial source, this is not terrestrial interference, you bet.
You bet.
I would pay strong attention to that.
But let's see, one other thing that struck me in Mr. Benton's letter there from Guernsey, he says here at some point that the signal was at 1453 points, such and such, with a significant drift.
Yes.
If this drift is due to a satellite, it has a really unstable oscillator which just so happens to mimic the Earth's rotation and the rotation of some other unknown body.
Right.
That sentence doesn't make too much sense.
It's not logical, Captain, as Mr. Spock would say.
That doesn't make too much sense, because he doesn't know what the rotation of the other unknown body is.
And I doubt that Mr. Guernsey has enough resolution in his receiver.
In other words, that he has, you know, fine enough tuning, if you will, to be able to see the Doppler shift of our own Earth, which is rather small.
It's like less than one Hertz per second.
You know, that means you have to have filters there that are down around one hertz in width, and very few amateurs will have anything like that.
He does say the signal is much weaker, which of course on a 4.5 meter dish it would be.
Yeah, well, the other fellow had a 10 meter dish, so that's a factor of 4, and that's 6 dB down.
But 6 dB is not so much.
Well, 3 dB is half power, right?
Yeah, 3 dB is a factor of 2, but remember his dish is half the size, so that's one-fourth the area.
So it's 6 dB down.
Okay, well, I mean, you know, I'm sure most folks don't care too much about that, but it's...
it's a fact that this signal got much weaker here.
This signal, according to what the guy says, and he doesn't give any numbers, but...
according to what he says, his signal was much weaker, and it shouldn't have been much weaker.
It should have been a factor of 4 weaker. It's also at a different frequency.
Did you see his screen print?
I did.
Yeah, and, you know, it looks like a signal, but that per se, of course,
I don't take that as very strong evidence for ET, because...
because I can get signals by tuning any receiver on Earth.
Can you get signals that would come and go the way he described five times he said he'd move the dish off point?
Well, I think that's what convinced him that this was E.T.
trying to call us.
Because he did what we do, what every radio astronomer who tries to do this experiment does.
Namely, you point in the direction of, you know, the star system you're interested in.
If you find a signal, then you move the telescope so that it's pointed away, and see if the signal goes away.
And if it does, then you move it back on the star system, see if it comes back, and so forth.
And you do this a couple times, and, you know, then you begin to get, you know, your blood pressure begins to rise.
Seth, is there anybody you can call?
Well, I'm, you know...
Let me lay out why.
Well, I don't know if you want me to.
I'm going to lay out again why I think that this is probably a red herring.
All right.
Here it is.
This is the way I see it.
Now, first off, you've already mentioned it.
The first guy calls in, he's anonymous.
Right.
And that raises a red flag with me, because if somebody calls me up from Peoria and says, I've got a cure for cancer, but I can't tell you my name and I can't tell you how to get hold of me.
He's going to give that a lot of credibility.
But he's not anonymous anymore.
He's not anymore.
That's true, but it took him a week.
According to the SETI League, he started doing this a week ago.
I must say, I didn't know that, but that's what I'm told by Paul Shuck.
Well, even you told me that there were some posts within some SETI sites by this source.
Exactly.
But they were all anonymous.
Anonymous.
But now we know everything about this man, and he does seem to have a legitimate Apparently a legitimate background.
Well, what I've read on the net, he has a technical background, that's for sure.
But, you know, that raised a red flag.
He hacked into a SETI-league internet group.
You know, somebody who does that.
And if you make the scientific discovery of the millennium, is that what you'd think of doing?
I think I'll hack into this internet group over here and post this stuff anonymously.
Well, yeah, but what you might do is you might not go to a SETI site at all.
You would, if you really wanted to distribute this, you'd make a posting on some giant mail list somewhere and get it going that way.
I mean, putting it in a SETI site is trying to keep it confined to people who can verify what you're trying to say.
Exactly.
Now, then he complained that the SETI lead wasn't interested in verifying what he wanted, but that was also more than a little suspicious because Of course, they couldn't get back to him because he couldn't give them... He's anonymous, yes.
Exactly.
All right.
Then, next thing he does is he puts a plot on this site, a GIF file, or is it a GIF file?
I always called it a GIF file, but it's really GIF.
I'm always corrected about it.
Really?
Okay.
Well, I'll stay and correct it.
I'll sit corrected here.
It puts on a GIF file, but on it, that particular plot doesn't have the characteristics of what's called a drift scan.
We discussed this the other night.
That the signal should go up and then come back down as, you know, the star drifts through the telescope's beam.
Okay.
And Chip Cohen, a fellow at Boston University who's very knowledgeable about SETI, points this out on the SETI League's group site, and suddenly another GIF is posted where it does go up and down.
Right.
But then it's pointed out, well, yes, but the Doppler shifts are the wrong way.
And suddenly a third GIF is put up there, With the right stop list, yes.
Now, if you look on that GeoCity site where you see the original plots, there's one for October 22nd and one for October 23rd, and I encourage all of your listeners to go check that out.
And if they just look a little bit carefully, they'll see that they're both the same plot, just shifted vertically by, I don't know, 30 or 50 pixels.
Um, that's not hard.
You can see that, you know, just right on your screen.
That's not hard to see.
Mr. Benton's, though, is the 29th.
Yeah, okay.
Now, uh, then Mr. Benton's is another story, but, you know, this is the first guy.
And now he claims, at least I've heard it said, that, uh, I think Richard Hoagland said that, well, that was just another error.
He was in tremendous hurry to get these GIFs up there.
Very excited, yeah.
And he accidentally put the same one up twice, although he did manage to shift it 30 or 50 pixels, which I think is kind of, Interesting.
So, the point is that every time that someone pointed out something wrong with these GIF files... He seemed to change it.
He changed it.
And you've got to say, that's something interesting.
The next point is, what an incredible coincidence that he's claiming this is EQPEG.
EQPEGASY.
Because that was the source where Jill Tartar and I found a very interesting, well, interesting for ten minutes, Source of interference, but it was only interference. We
looked at eq peg actually with their acebo which has what about?
And it's about a thousand times the sensitivity of this fellow's system probably more than that actually
And we didn't see any signal at any of the frequencies he claimed is it not possible though that that signal
Certainly, it's possible a signal would be interrupted at the source for some period of time and then reappear
Oh, it's possible.
Can't deny that.
That's possible.
But the point was that we picked up a signal that, as I say, for ten minutes looked interesting, and then it was clearly identified as just another bit of interference, which, as I say, we get all the time.
And then this guy, four weeks later, now claims that he's got a signal from the very same direction.
I know.
You know, a prospector in the Old West, looking for gold, comes across some mountain, and my God, he thinks he's found the Mother Lode!
Right?
And he goes up the mountain, he marks it on his map, this is it!
But then, you know, he gets out his magnifying glass or his equipment, whatever, and he looks it over, and it turns out it's all pyrite, it's all fool's gold, it's not worth anything.
Okay?
Four weeks later, some other miner says, I've found the Mother Lode, and guess what?
It's right on that mountain, right where that guy That's right.
So that's a little bit suspicious in the whole sky, you know?
It's a place... It is, and you know the other night when you said all this, I accepted it.
I really did accept it, and I shut my mouth about it, and I just waited.
Right.
But now comes piling in all this other information, another source, then another source, a claim from Germany.
Then the guy goes public with his name and his background.
They say they're going to have this press conference on Tuesday.
Isn't there somebody you can call?
Well, you can be sure that, yeah, I think that there are people that, well, I think that maybe the best people to look at are probably the guys, I don't want to speak for them, but the guys at Harvard that you've already mentioned, the Project Beta guys might be able to tune up to 1453, they surely can.
I mean, there you are.
Now, listen to me.
I'm telling you the truth.
I got email, separate from Hoagland, that said that Harvard Was in fact looking at that system right there.
And then Hoagland got separate emails saying, yes, it's true, they've begun to shut down their 10-minute reports, the whole site is down, and they're looking at Pegasus.
So, you know, there's an awful lot of data points here.
Well, there are, but there's one other data I might mention here.
Paul Shuck's SETI League, which was the organization whose internet group was Well, given all these GIF files, kind of anonymously, they had more than 60 fellows with their dishes go look for that original signal, and they didn't find it.
None of them.
So that's another datum point there.
It is.
But if there's any way possible that you can encourage anybody to look, I mean, there's enough here that I sure would like to see this confirmed or knocked down.
Right.
Well, I think everybody feels that way.
Let me put it this way to you.
If you right this very moment had access to a good size reflector, wouldn't you be pointed over there?
Well, I'm on the show here, so I suppose I would be.
Yes, that's right.
Let me point out something that may not be too obvious to the listeners.
You've got to be a little careful.
You know, separating out the wheat from the chaff here is tough business because of this Enormous interference that we suffer here on Earth, you know?
What you really want to do is move this whole operation to the far side of the moon.
If somebody's willing to write a check so that we can do that, that would be wonderful.
Well, it's this kind of news that'll get the pens going, I think.
That's possible.
But we've been fooled in the past by signals that look good in the sense that you're pointing at a given star, you pick up the signal, and then you move the telescope off, pointing it somewhere else, and the signal goes away.
And then you move it back, and the signal comes back.
And you move it away, and it goes away.
Just like this fellow in Guernsey experienced.
But, in fact, that can happen even though the signal's coming from something here on the ground, a radar somewhere.
It's just because it's coming in the sides of the antenna.
It's coming in the side lobes.
Every antenna is most sensitive in the direction it's pointed, but has a little bit of sensitivity off to the side.
Absolutely.
And so what can happen, and it's happened to us, it really does happen, is that the side lobes just happen to be in such an arrangement that you're picking up an interfering signal off, you know, in some crazy direction, and when you move the antenna away, then the side lobes change direction and you don't get it anymore, so it mimics perfectly the kind of thing that uh... the fellow endurance each
reporting for that possibility keep in mind so all of this and uh... you would
characterize uh...
yourself as being very skeptical but at least mildly interested well i i i
find it very interesting that's for sure but uh... at the moment i'm willing to
bet uh...
any listener uh... a double latte that this is uh... not easy call
All right, Seth, thanks a million.
We'll do a show again soon.
Okay, great.
Thanks for getting up in the middle of the night with us.
That's the real McCoy there, Seth, the show star of SETI.
We'll be right back.
I apologize to my caller on the wildcard line.
I'm going to keep you on hold through the top of the hour news, which is rapidly approaching.
Send me a bill.
We'll pay your phone bill.
I'm so sorry about that.
So hang in there.
There was no way I could not do what I just did.
And if only Seth had been where we last interviewed him a couple of times ago at Arecibo, I think we'd have our answer right now.
In all, if you want to know what's going on, you'll go to my website.
You will also go to my website to see this incredible photograph, and it is an incredible photograph, of this obvious American native in the fire.
Fits in perfectly for the night, there's no question about that.
And all of the information that you can read on my site On the GeoCity site, which is linked, and if you can't get into my site, which is www.artbell.com, then by all means try Richard Hoagland's site, which is enterprisemission.com, but whatever you do, get up there.
Mildly interesting, at the very least.
I'm Art Bell.
Well this is Coast to Coast Anne.
Oh, right here in the middle of it all.
We gotta get it right, that's the way we got it all.
Love is good, love is wild.
We gotta get it right, that's the way we got it all.
When you first came, I said hey.
When you first came, I said hey.
I said no one can take your place.
you And if you get hurt, if you do, by the little things I say
I can set a smile back on your face And it's all right, it's coming up
We've got to get right back to where we started from Nothing's good, it's time to be done
We've got to get right back to where we started from And it's all right, it's coming up
Like I, should never say go You know it's only just begun
If you need a lot of love, I can stay away You are the apple of my eye.
When it's all right and it's coming up, I gotta get right back to where we started from.
Nothing to do, nothing to show, I gotta get right back to where we started from.
I just can't stay away
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