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Sept. 1, 1998 - Art Bell

01:43:57

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - Gulf Breeze - NSA Security. Vance Davis

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	Okay.
	A one-time advisor to Walter Cronkite.
	Winner of the Angstrom Science Award.
	One-time advisor to NASA, where he is now held in very high esteem.
	You will see Richard Hoagland photographs lining the walls.
	NASA Ames and propulsion lab and places like that where Uh, Richard has almost turned into a cult figure for the people, uh, there.
	This is Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hi, Richard.
	You mean to tell me when they say I give a stem-winding speech, it's not a compliment?
	Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, So before we get on to the more serious stuff, Richard, I want to know about this, too.
	Let me read you the facts, alright?
	Okay.
	A friend and I have been waiting for months now for you to have Richard on again.
	Hello, Richard.
	So that we could pose the following question.
	Though Old Navy was an unusual twist by Richard, It was a subject that struck a chord with both of us, um, only to get more and more strange as time went by.
	Nothing has been said about it for some time now.
	However, there have been an incredible rash of strange Old Navy commercials lately, featuring the dog Magic, uh, with a J. Is there any new information or news about Old Navy, or is this now one of those subjects that if I told you I'd have to kill you?
	Um, so, yeah, I want to know, too, there was this time when you came on the air and you talked about these meetings in Old Navy stores across America and sales at $19 and something or another.
	$19.5.
	$19.5, of course.
	And you had people go into the stores With these coat hangers or something, wasn't it?
	No, I had them, the little model tetrahedrons.
	Little model tetrahedrons, which people, I think, made out of coat hangers, that's where I got them.
	Some did, yes.
	Yes.
	And, uh, go in and ask about the meeting at the Old Navy stores.
	And, and, you know, so, I kind of agree with this factor.
	What's the latest on Old Navy?
	The whole thing struck people as really strange and odd and bizarre, but it's like there was something to it.
	Well, when they got into the inter-telephone system, they found even stranger things, if you remember.
	And this was all triggered the night of the Phoenix Lights, March 13th of last year.
	The same night that President Clinton had something happen to him, you know, 2,000 miles away in Florida.
	And we have seen not only publicly a series of these commercials, but You remember the Indianapolis 500 when Old Navy entered a car?
	You know what?
	I do.
	I remember seeing the car.
	Do you remember the number of the car?
	Was it 19?
	33.
	Was it 19?
	Oh, 33.
	33.
	33.
	Oh, 33.
	And do you remember what the driver wore on his helmet?
	No, Richard, that I don't.
	Neither.
	We need to do a show where we focus... You know, wait a minute here.
	This may be a case of Wag the Dog.
	Now, at this... I'm starting to wonder if...
	Your thing about Old Navy is feeding them, and they're using it now, and they're just provoking you and everybody else who got into that Old Navy thing, and it's just a great advertising scheme for them.
	Well, if that's true, then the checks are late because they're not paying their royalties.
	Well, no.
	No, and they wouldn't have to.
	You're putting it right in their laps now.
	I admit that what you just told me about the driver is beyond all reason of coincidence.
	Thank you.
	I mean, period.
	As Geraldo says, your call mark for his show is there is no such thing as coincidence.
	Well, not this big.
	So that makes me think it's wag the dog and Richard is wagging Old Navy and Old Navy is thankfully wagging back.
	Is it that or is there really some deep, dark, Well, every time we mention this subject, you bring up the topic of dark.
	Graham Hancock and Robert Boole, our mutual friends, are working on a book next year, or at least next spring, which is going to be called, I believe the working title is, The Benign Conspiracy.
	And what they're going to do is to track what we have been tracking, which is basically the Masonic tradition of enlightenment, which started in Europe, actually started in Egypt, to work its way through Europe, and ultimately wound up with the gestation of the United States of America.
	As you begin to take apart all the symbols, starting with what's on the dollar bill, You know, both sides.
	If you take apart the Great Seal, if you take apart the nation's capital, if you look at the shots of CNN with a helicopter poised next to the Washington Monument, which is nothing but an enormous Egyptian obelisk tracing its way back to the ancient kingdoms of Egypt, you begin to understand that somebody had a plan.
	And every time you say plan, people snicker now, because we live in an age when nobody plans anything.
	You know, they're planning maybe for the next quarter, maybe for next week.
	But civilizations, great cultures, are spawned and nourished by people who have great vision, and great dreams, and great plans.
	And what made the United States of America what it is, Art, is great planning.
	We honor the founding fathers, and we honor their vision, and yet we refuse to look at The extraordinary instruments that made what they conceived possible.
	And some night, not too distant from now, we need to do a show where we lay out the history of this republic, its extraordinarily interesting traditions, and the computerized, demonstrable evidence that someone is continuing those traditions right up until last week.
	Until last week?
	Yeah.
	And that's when I stopped looking because I had to prepare for some other things.
	Oh, you're not saying that the whole thing has... Oh, okay.
	No, no, no.
	I'm looking at tracking what is occurring.
	Well, alright.
	It's going to take a whole show for you to convince me, no doubt.
	Well, I don't want to convince anybody.
	I want to have the time, Art, to lay out the evidence.
	And I want to bring out a couple of colleagues who have worked very hard, who are behind the scenes, to provide some of this evidence.
	And we will let the people decide, because that's what science is.
	It's putting the evidence on the table and letting the body politic come to a decision.
	Or putting the conspiracies on the table and seeing how many people bite.
	Well, last night, your esteemed guest, Ed Dames, said something which I find so extraordinary.
	Well, when you got on, he was just... When he got on, it seemed like when you got on with him, he was just steamed, not esteemed.
	Okay, well, let me quote something that he said.
	Let me quote directly, and I have this because we actually did the transcript from the tape today, it was so astonishing.
	Yes, okay.
	Because it appears to be a confirmation on the sinister side of what we've been discussing the last couple of minutes.
	He says, when President Clinton came into office, those of us in the military, we did not brief the President of the United States on anything.
	That's right.
	Because we knew he was a transient event, and he was not one of ours.
	That's right.
	Like George Bush, like Ronald Reagan.
	That's right.
	That happens, Ed said, to be the truth, and we kept him in the dark on a lot of things because he was a loose cannon.
	He was not a supporter of the system.
	Now, what system are we talking about?
	Is it the constitutional system that you and I and everybody else thinks they've elected?
	Well, um... He goes on to say he didn't know what to ask, so we didn't tell him.
	We were using, uh, we were using we in a general sense.
	Is that right or wrong?
	Probably wrong.
	But it also happens to be fact.
	Yeah, well, alright.
	Now here's someone who is as deeply in the system as anybody that you can get.
	That you probably have on the show.
	Maybe, excepting that general who wouldn't use his name.
	Okay.
	And the fact that he says he had an office in every intelligence agency in Washington.
	This is a man who's a major.
	What is he doing with an office in every intelligence agency in Washington?
	I don't know.
	Majors do things.
	So do colonels look at North?
	Benny said that anyone who would talk to me from the NSA would already be behind bars.
	That's correct.
	Well, we're going to bring on a guest shortly who has already faced that problem and literally beat the system, was for 21 days behind bars, and for some extraordinary reason is walking around a free man tonight able to speak the truth and the constitutional truth that I referred to last night.
	His name is Vance Davis.
	Vance Davis.
	That rings a bell.
	I met him several years ago in a little town where I was speaking.
	I actually forget what the town was, but he came up to me, sought me out at the earlier part of our investigation.
	It was about the halfway point.
	And he said he had something he wanted to tell me because he knew that I lived outside of New York City.
	He said in the next year or so there will be a major event in New York Either a gas explosion or perhaps a terrorist attack.
	Alright, I want to be clear now about who you say Vance Davis is, and we'll do that by asking Vance Davis in a moment, but you say he is a former NSA employee.
	Is that accurate?
	That is accurate.
	Alright.
	It turned out a year later that as I'm sitting at my computer and CNN is coming on with this rather remarkable set of pictures of the World Trade Towers, that his words, you know, instantly came back to mind.
	Because the event, you know, the major explosion in New York City that he had
	tipped me to, in fact, had come to pass.
	Well, at that point, I got very intrigued with Davis and his associates.
	There were other members of this cadre that he would refer to.
	And it was one of those things where I didn't know where to track him down.
	I didn't know, you know, I just put it on the map as, okay, this is interesting.
	Someone told me something so off the wall and it came true.
	When I came out to New Mexico... Did you know he was NSA then?
	Yes.
	Oh yes, he was quite open and up front.
	In fact, he identified himself as part of this group, which you will obviously ask him about.
	My next contact was quite surprising.
	Last year, as you know, we transitioned from New York out here to Placidus.
	You bet.
	It's a gorgeous mountaintop, 7,000 feet, you know, where the wind is blowing about 50 miles an hour tonight.
	We were caught between two cyclonic events, a would-be hurricane called Earl in the Gulf of Mexico, and ironically enough, a friend of mine called me a few minutes ago and said there is a tropical... I'm sorry, a, um, uh, cyclone.
	The ones in the Pacific are called cyclones.
	Typhoons, actually.
	Cyclones.
	Typhoons.
	Typhoons, that's right.
	Cyclones are big lows.
	Coming up the west coast, about to touch land, called ISIS.
	Alright?
	So we're in the wind between ISIS and Earl.
	So the weather guys are messing with you too, huh?
	I guess, I guess.
	Anyway, so we come out here and the way we got the house is through another friend of mine who is former NSA.
	And he happens to know and in fact is entertaining the afternoon we look at this house, Vance Davis.
	Who at that point sits down and proceeds to tell me the extraordinary story of his military service, his transfer from the Army to the NSA, his posting in Europe, and all the events that wound up with them being headline news for several weeks on CNN.
	And it turned out today when I talked to him, That our mutual associate, Ed Dames, plays an interesting and pivotal role in this story, which I did not know about until this afternoon.
	Boy, the plot thickens.
	Anyway, when we were putting together the Phoenix event last year, I asked Vance to put together some of the history based on his sourcing and on his ability to basically do good, honest analytical research.
	That has led to our keeping in touch, and the other day when the Gaddafi and the Korean situation posed itself, he was someone I turned to in confidence to try to drag out information.
	And you successfully extracted the information?
	Not only that, but after last night's show, Vance decided that it was important for him to Come forward and put a few things on the record.
	All right, that's exactly what he's going to do because we're at a break point now and when we come back, Vance Davis will be here.
	All right, Richard.
	Indeed, North Korea launched a missile or two, depending on what you believe, toward and then over the nation of Japan.
	Which, by the way, is a mystery to me because earlier today I got out of Globe and if you look at the construction of North Korea, they could have fired the missile straight south and gone over no land mass at all.
	Yeah, I was very perplexed by Major James' geography last night because when you fire a weapon of war over a sovereign nation, Yeah, seriously.
	Going back hundreds of years, that is a declaration of hostility.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, that's a serious thing.
	If a missile came over Florida from Cuba, believe me, the DEFCON levels would be rising, the silos would be opening, there'd be all hell to pay, so... And as someone who has gone to the War College, I would think that Mr. James ought to know better.
	There is a lot to this that doesn't meet the eye, and frankly, I was very taken aback When I thought I was providing corroborative evidence last night from one of his colleagues that in fact the first shot in this, you know, new phase was fired by North Korea only by the grace of God knows what it didn't
	Yeah, you thought, I'm sure, that he would embrace that as supporting what he said.
	He would look at it in the context that we're all looking at cutting-edge issues.
	Okay, and instead the big chill came down.
	I mean, it was incredible.
	So, you claim NSA sources.
	Here is your NSA source.
	Vance Davis, welcome to the program.
	Thank you very much.
	I'm not giving out your name without your permission, am I?
	No, you're not.
	All right.
	As Richard has told you, and hello, Richard.
	Good evening, Vance.
	We've had a busy week, haven't we?
	Yes.
	Okay, you're somewhere in Arizona, right, Vance?
	I am in Phoenix, Arizona, yes.
	Okay.
	Down here in the 104 degrees.
	104 degrees.
	Vance, when were you NSA?
	I went into military in 1983 from Wichita, Kansas.
	Went through school and then was assigned as an Army E4 into NSA at Fort Meade, Maryland.
	And that was in 1984.
	So from 1984 until 1990, I was in and around NSA all the time.
	And most of the time, except for two years, I had civilian bosses.
	GS-18s on up.
	And you were an E-4 level?
	Yes, I was.
	Although I didn't wear a uniform quite often.
	Didn't wear a uniform.
	Alright.
	How was the policy at NSA at the time?
	Okay, I can certainly buy that.
	General Odom in 1985 started changing.
	Why were you in the NSA, Vance?
	Well, as I was told... Why is anybody in the NSA?
	Yes, in other words, how do you get approached, recruited, joined, whatever, especially as an E4?
	Well, you have to go through the history of the NSA, which was started by President Truman.
	Truman started it in 1954, officially calling it by that name, National Security Agency, or as Inside would call it, No Such Agency, until a certain book came out called The Puzzle Palace.
	Then we were given debriefings on how to handle that little trick.
	It's interesting the history behind it.
	There was a president edict, or is what we call a presidential decree, they have other names for it.
	Directives?
	Directives, yes, that put NSA for a long period, from 1972 I believe on up, into the direct access or control of all gathering intelligence information.
	Because of the snafus that occurred in Vietnam, which I wasn't there, but I'm sure you guys would remember.
	The intelligence nephews that occurred because every branch had their own intelligence service.
	So NSA became a central source.
	In that, NSA has a right to pull from the ranks of the military certain individuals that they feel could benefit them.
	Why did they pull you?
	Well, as I was told when I went through, I was told at basic, at AIT school in Gulf Breeze, in Pensacola, Florida or Gulf Breeze, Florida, That I had been requested with my roommate to go to NSA, which does not usually occur, Art and Richard, until you've already served four or eight years, at least two tours.
	We got requested right out of school, which was unusual.
	We were told it's very unusual to have that happen.
	Were you told why?
	I had an implication that when I went through, again, through an interrogation at NSA, The real lie detector test, which I guess they still use it today from what I understand.
	Sitting there asking me all the questions about my past.
	And I don't know if anybody out there, if you have Art or Richard, has been through a clearance, a security clearance program.
	You do that three or four times.
	I had a top secret clearance in the Air Force.
	Okay, I had a TSC, which is a top secret clearance code word, to work there.
	that was given to me, but it was supplied through NSA.
	They gave accesses out.
	So I was being questioned for the accesses to work within the building there.
	At the end of it, they asked me if there was anything else that I needed to tell them.
	So I proceeded to tell them when I stole a candy bar when I was six years old.
	Yep.
	Okay?
	Lay it all out.
	I had my guilt coming out, right?
	Yeah, lay it all out.
	Yeah, lay it all out.
	You have nothing to hide.
	And they said, is there anything else?
	I said, no.
	They said, it's candy bars.
	You're our kind of guy.
	That's right.
	In fact, it was a Milky Way.
	The fear of Dad got to me at the time, so I never stole anything after that.
	What's interesting, they brought out, after I said no, I don't have anything else to add, a pile of papers, probably a good quarter inch thick, and said, well, what's this?
	And I'm looking at it, I flipped it open, and it's my class work and the information on me when I was 15 through 16 years old taking Silva Mind Control.
	Taking Silva Mind Control?
	Yes, by Jose Silva out of Laredo, Texas.
	Yeah, I'm familiar with it.
	Yeah, I took that class when I was a teenager when I was in high school.
	My parents put all of us through it.
	My whole family took it.
	All right, so you're now suggesting that that had some bearing on why they picked you.
	It had a possibility.
	In my mind, I'm like, wait a minute.
	How did they get the information in some of the scores that I scored in those courses?
	Oh, come now.
	That was my thought.
	They're the NSA.
	They can do that.
	Yeah, well, that's the implication.
	I didn't know.
	I was 18 years old.
	That was stupid.
	Can I interrupt for a second?
	Sure.
	There is a very well done NBC television show which is run now for a couple, three seasons called The Pretender.
	Yep.
	And the concept is young children singled out as having special talents or abilities or potential and brought up in an isolated environment to serve something other than normal society.
	Okay, well that makes sense.
	The background that Vance is describing, although he had a normal childhood, it sounds like someone was monitoring, someone was keeping tabs at the NSA, and they said, we want this one, this one, and this one.
	And as you'll hear later in the morning, this one, in terms of Vance, turns out to have some pretty interesting faculties and talent.
	Well, let me give you something, gentlemen, that I learned later from certain officers within the NSA and within the Army.
	I got a security clearance six weeks into basic training.
	A top secret security clearance.
	So you must have been picked way back then is what you're suggesting really.
	They're telling me for that to happen with someone that has no, and family that has no security clearances within them.
	Okay Art?
	Yes.
	That's fast.
	Oh yeah, I agree with you.
	They were after you, grooming you.
	I mean, I had never even tried drugs in my life, and of course a couple people laughed at that one, but oh well.
	Well, I proceeded to be invited into a program I knew nothing about, and they started testing me on certain, I had a, what they call a psyche test.
	With cards.
	And I laughed hard.
	Because sitting there, I'm saying, don't you understand, if you're looking at the card, I can get the information from you.
	And they look at me and say, okay, well, this experiment's over.
	So in other words, you can read minds?
	They threw it out.
	It's not reading minds.
	They throw the information out.
	In other words, you could hear them and all they needed to do was confirm that you were able to hear what they were saying telepathically or some form of remote viewing or communication, whatever reality is, right?
	Right, whatever the name they use.
	So they perceived you as having a talent for this kind of communication.
	A perceived talent, yes.
	And they were testing me on that.
	That went on for about three months until they asked me to pop a balloon.
	To pop a balloon?
	To pop a balloon.
	A very simple experiment.
	You mean with your mind?
	Yes.
	I didn't take it.
	You meant with a pen?
	No.
	That's easy.
	You can pop a balloon with your mind?
	With the right concentration and the right focus, yes.
	In fact, I could give you analogies and physical people in the martial arts field that can do the same thing, Art.
	It's a common practice among certain cultures.
	It's not well known in the United States.
	Vance, your name rang a big bell with me because I think years ago I interviewed you.
	Yes, you did.
	And what I vaguely recall from that interview is that you were a military enlisted rank person in Europe who literally When AOL, A-W-O-L and ended up in Florida and all of this was over a Ouija board incident.
	Is that roughly correct?
	You have part of the pieces, yes.
	What am I missing?
	That Ouija board was part of it, yes.
	But there are other things that were going on at the time.
	And we, because of our position, had certain accesses to information.
	In that interview we also talked about the Gulf War and that that was all prepared and set up in many ways and that we weren't the only ones that knew that.
	So yes, that was the interview and we were given certain predictions, certain events, that we had to research close to 1,500 pages of notes on top of other things that we had been working with in Augsburg is the place where we were at.
	And that's six soldiers that did that.
	I remember the wire reports about that.
	It was a big story and the wire services and the networks all covered it about you guys who went AWOL out of the blue.
	And then, like so many stories of that sort, it died kaboom.
	Yes.
	Like that.
	It did.
	It's like an ax fell on it and cut off.
	Let me interrupt here, okay?
	When this was all going down, I was in Virginia.
	I was consulting with one of your radio colleagues.
	We won't need to mention the name, but it was another network.
	And the Gulf War was, you know, going on.
	And this story flared briefly.
	Six military, you know, enlisted personnel in key sense of intelligence positions suddenly going AWOL, showing up in Florida, being arrested, And everyone who was watching this with any interest thought they're toast, they're history.
	What makes this so astonishing is that Vance Davis tonight is a free man sitting in Phoenix, Arizona.
	His colleagues are all free.
	They were cashiered out with honorable discharges.
	Yeah, the military somehow did this giant turnaround, and the whole thing got dropped, and to this day, nobody knows why.
	Van?
	This is why I had to smile last night when Ed Dames said, well, if your source was telling you anything, he'd be at Leavenworth, because that trick has already been tried.
	Yeah, you did go to jail, right, Van, for a while?
	For 21 days.
	21 days.
	And we were basically told Uh, on the 21st day that we were going to be released by order of the Joint Chiefs.
	And President Bush.
	And President Bush, alright.
	Uh, Vance, why?
	Well, there's several reasons that it could be, Art, as we had the government still, he's very close-mouthed, although a certain... Yeah, but I'm not asking the government, I'm asking you.
	My impression and belief At that time, then I'll answer you at this time now that has changed, was that they did not want it to go to trial.
	Because?
	They would have to release and basically prove everything we got as false.
	And it wasn't.
	There were security issues that made them so strong, that made them drop the whole thing like that.
	And they did drop it, I remember.
	Oh, they dropped it like a compound ball.
	Yeah.
	And that whole thing ended as a mystery.
	And I take it that you can't tell me what the security items are that cause them to drop this, or can you?
	I only have, Art, to be honest with you, is that I only have my perceptions of why.
	We do know that President Bush was in meetings with the Joint Chiefs and his cabinet when they were told to basically get us out of there, to release it and drop the whole thing, to leave it to the public mind.
	You must know.
	I have my ideas, yes sir.
	Are these things that if you were to now discuss you would go back to jail?
	I don't believe so because I think someone or a group of someone in the government wants this country to survive.
	Okay then, what is it?
	I think that we foresaw and were told and actually saw certain actions going on That this country was slowly being sold out, brought out of democracy into a totally different avenue of thought, which I call fascism.
	I will understand what fascism is, but what specific things did you see or know that would have caused them to drop this whole thing?
	What?
	We were given, and it's a long story, Art, we were given the whole icon of events through our security accesses to other avenues of information and of intelligence.
	You've learned through other officers that there was a whole distinct long-term plan
	to set into motion starting in 1990 to bring about a new power
	into this world if it could be done and The one sticking point was that the United States was
	blocking that move and they had to move to knock down the United States from within and
	They give us up on and then we some of the things have occurred
	to point to the economic the political the social and
	Among other things even even the earth changes. Did you have are you suggesting that you had information?
	about a virtual coup d'etat in the United States Yes.
	And it's so quiet that the public...
	It's very unaware because of all the stuff going on over the past eight years, what I call shadows.
	Look, what would have stopped everybody from considering you to be a raving lunatic if you'd have made this stuff public?
	In other words, it was so strong and so important that they dropped their prosecution of you and the others involved in all of this.
	This is a serious issue.
	You're very serious.
	You are asking the most important question of the evening.
	The reason that I have paid close attention to Vance Davis when he came to me at that meeting years later and identified himself as one of the Gulf Free Six.
	The key question on my mind was the question you're asking the nation tonight.
	Why are you outside walking around?
	Yeah.
	That's what... and even... I'm more directly asking.
	I'm asking now What specifically, in terms of evidence, did Vance and or his colleagues have that was so heavy that the government dropped the whole matter?
	There must have been something in the category of what we would call hard evidence.
	Well, let me venture a speculation based on completely separate investigation.
	Remember, we've come at this now from a totally separate venue.
	Yeah, but why not just ask Vance?
	Well, I don't think Vance knows.
	I mean, Vance and I have discussed it.
	Let me give you a scenario, Richard.
	Okay.
	An art, and for you guys to come all on.
	Scott, we're coming up on a break here.
	Yes.
	We can carry it on.
	Let's say it deals with the game of Cold War, and the game of war, and what I call the game of kings and queens.
	All right.
	Well, that's all fine and well, but rather non-specific.
	We're going to take a break, everyone.
	When I come back, I'm going to be looking for a specific item so serious the government literally dropped your case like a hot potato.
	It's an important question.
	We'll be right back.
	back. To my guests, Richard C. Hoagland and Vance Davis.
	And Vance, all of the audience is now updated. And I'm going to try this. I'm going to ask
	one more time, and maybe it's just a question you can't answer, or maybe it's a
	question you don't know the answer to. But you have said, in answer to this mystery, that the
	military dropped charges against all of you guys like a hot rock. And you've given me some
	sort of broad explanation.
	Explanation of why you think they did that having to do with one world government or something or another and There must have been Had to have been something concrete and absolute in terms of Intel that you had that you could have talked about or one of the other in your party could have talked about and That would have caused them so much embarrassment that rather than face that in a court-martial against you, they dropped the whole thing, strangely.
	And I want to know what that was.
	Well, let me give you, and it may be confirmation for you, Art, and maybe for Richard, because there are a couple points that I feel, and so do the other five that we did have, that we Over the past eight years I've fought with about whether we should even talk about, and with the events occurring recently and in the past year, I think it's time, and I took it upon myself, it's time to come out and broach the subject.
	Okay, broach.
	Whether it's accurate to the government's view or not, I can't answer that, but I'm saying this is what we feel that would be very hard for them to answer to the public, because it was all over the news and it would have been done publicly.
	And that is that the public does not know and in 1984 I found out very directly as many people do that end up in the intelligence community that there are two governments in the United States.
	I'm a naive 18 year old at the time and I had this going on me and that things that I was taught about history We're not necessarily true, and I proceeded to be taught what real history was.
	That there is a, quote, elected government by the people.
	We all agree with that, correct?
	Yes.
	But they hold no real hard power.
	That the non-elected organizations, individuals, and groups of people working for this large Let me stop you there for a second.
	Remember last night, Ed Dames said, when Clinton came into office, we did not brief the President because he was a transient event.
	need to do. Let me stop you there for a second. Remember last night Ed Dame said when Clinton
	came into office, he did not brief the president because he was a transient event. Can you
	imagine if this group had gone to trial and what they were involved with and what they
	had received in the way of interesting information became public and the process whereby they
	were selected like that television show and a lot of other things in the 1980s time frame.
	People obviously would have had a major visceral reaction.
	It is like that gentleman who called in last night after Ed Dame was arrested.
	Ed was on and he said, I'm frankly really upset at what you've just said.
	Yes.
	He was pissed.
	Yes.
	Well, you know, those of us who are trying to lift the covers, you know, so the truth can be revealed, often are accused and tarred with the broad brush that we're conspiracy freaks.
	Actually, I'm a truth freak.
	I made a commitment to myself 15 years ago when I started down the trail of what I thought was something simple, like extraterrestrial ruins.
	That I would follow that trail wherever it led, and one of the things it led to were people like Vance Davis, who are honest, God-fearing Americans, patriotic, who have been taken by this government, parts of it, used, thrown aside, reviled, and who have some special abilities that are going to be needed as the time approaches where major events are drawing to a nexus, to a point.
	Last night, when I came on, I did not expect the fascinating reaction of Major Dames, who, in essence, admitted everything we're discussing tonight.
	Now, let me add something to that that really, even more, disturbed us.
	And you and I, Art, touched a few years ago, and Richard and I have talked about it.
	When a person joins the military, they take an oath.
	And, Art, I believe you took that oath.
	Yes, of course I did.
	We all did.
	We stood up and put our hands up.
	And the oath states that we will protect and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic, the Constitution of the United States.
	That's correct, yes.
	There is an internal war going on within the military and the intelligence community because certain individuals I do not use the word government because the government's made up of people that feel they gain more power by joining other forces that are against that form of government to usurp and create problems within the boundaries of the United States.
	Yeah, once again, you're talking about a coup d'etat.
	Yes, I am.
	A creeping coup d'etat.
	A creeping coup d'etat.
	It cannot happen fast.
	And we're talking intelligence thinking way here now, Art.
	Alright, look.
	I'll go this far, and I went this far last night.
	To me, it is logical that the military-industrial complex, at the time of President Clinton's presidency as it began, didn't trust Clinton, didn't like Clinton.
	We all know he doesn't much like them.
	Correct.
	And so that he would not be told everything.
	Frankly, even though it's obviously not constitutional, didn't surprise me a bit and doesn't surprise me now.
	And I'll go that far.
	It doesn't.
	It's a policy within.
	And right now, as the audience may not know or know, the CIA now is supposed to debrief or brief the president.
	From all intelligence sources on what's going on around the world.
	Absolutely.
	That does not occur, Art.
	They are giving him pieces.
	And I can understand why.
	They had a problem with Reagan, also.
	Because Reagan, in his speeches, would bring things out.
	That he was told.
	No, that's absolutely correct.
	He kept pointing to the sky and talking about it.
	I know.
	I have exactly the same problem.
	When somebody tells me something, um, I can't keep my mouth shut about it, so it ends up here on the show.
	Drives people nuts.
	And it's a policy that has gone on since Johnson.
	Do not inform the President of what's really going on within the internal government processes.
	Alright.
	Look, Vance, in the interest of time, then, I am going to say, alright.
	We've got your story.
	Your period in the NSA.
	Now, I want to get to This missile firing by North Korea.
	And the first thing I want to ask you is, the information that you relayed to Richard, and you're his NSA source, was this information, information you gathered back in the 80s or early 90s while you were in the NSA, or is it current information?
	It is current.
	Alright.
	If it is current, then the implication is, That it has come from within the NSA contacts that you to this day still have, or are you willing to say more?
	They come from contacts that I have phone, email, certain contacts with that make certain calls, make certain inquiries, and I need to preface this part with the audience.
	Because the audience as a civilian populace, and I'm sorry if I use a military term here, are not in the know of how the intelligence community gathers information and how they put it together.
	Obviously.
	I was an analyst within the military.
	You were an NSA analyst.
	An analyst.
	That means I took certain portions of information, put them together, And reported to a higher level where they took those, they put them together with other sources of information until you get to a point where there's someone sitting at top or a group of someone.
	Who knows it all?
	Who knows it all?
	It is compartmentalized.
	Correct.
	Obviously.
	So that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, if that makes any sense.
	It's a protection.
	Now what I have done, I've formed a company, a corporation, that Yeah, there's information books documents for storage Certain things we do not talk about by contract other things we can but it has to be done in the right way because if you're fed misinformation Then that messes up the kernels of truth because you have to dig through a lot of garbage and
	To get to the key of what's really going on.
	Alright, so let's just cut through the garbage and say the information you're about to give us has come from sources inside NSA that you consider not to be disinformation.
	Sources you trust, yes?
	Yes, and other sources other than NSA.
	Alright, but also including NSA.
	That's the important key thing.
	Yes.
	Alright, fine.
	And some of those sources are technical remote viewing, remote sensing, Data information or encrypted information.
	You're now speaking of sources other than NSA.
	Correct.
	ELINT and COMINT, which is electronic intelligence, communications intelligence, on-ground intelligence, and people who have the wherewithal to even make phone calls to certain sites in certain areas around the world.
	Alright.
	What Dames said, Ed Dames said last night, was that anybody in your position Ex-NSA or not, who's telling us, giving us an extremely sensitive piece of information, like that the North Koreans were aiming at a nuclear reactor in Japan, and fired two missiles trying to hit it, missing both times, that that person would end up behind bars or worse.
	And that, I have to agree is what I think would happen too.
	And that is what you're saying, right?
	Yes, I would agree with his statement.
	In fact, if we read it back here, in response to someone with NSA talking, and he quotes, I had an office in NSA as well as the other intelligence agencies.
	Anybody who talks to Richard from NSA would already tonight be behind bars.
	That's right.
	I know the NSA like the back of my hand, that's jail time.
	Okay, that's, that sounds like, yeah, that sounds like a statement that I would generally agree with, something on this level.
	And I would tend to agree with that also.
	The interesting thing is, and we have to really look at this, that we have An internal war going on and they're using the media, they're using art, they even use you!
	They use me?
	I guarantee you they're using me in some assets, otherwise I still wouldn't have connections.
	And they're using Richard.
	And they're trying to play the game with the public to see which way and what the public may do.
	What they're going to believe, what they're not going to believe.
	And that's a decision the public has to make of their own accord as a sovereign individual.
	We each have to make that decision.
	Now I will tell you this.
	I may be wrong because of the information I got and how I put it together.
	That is a part of intelligence gathering and part of this system.
	What exactly do you know?
	Did I state it correctly that your sources told you That North Korea was trying to hit a nuclear plant in Japan with two missiles.
	Dave, the information I received from about five different sources was that this was a scare tactic to shake up Japan.
	Now, wait a minute.
	Already there's a difference.
	No, not really.
	They fired two missiles.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	One of them went over.
	Japan?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I know.
	That one outright missed.
	Overshot its target.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	What was... Well, I understand they were going after... Yes.
	...a nuclear site near Tokyo.
	Then that's not trying to scare somebody.
	That's trying to... Yes, it is.
	...kill a lot of people.
	Well, yes.
	And it would have.
	At the same time, the other one early on, which may still be part of a second stage... Yes.
	...but it was believed that they were trying to hit an area being built as a second site for nuclear power because it was their belief in South, uh, North Korea that Japan and South Korea were working on giving South Korea nuclear capability.
	Well, you know, uh, I, I really at this point, um, hold on everybody.
	I really, um, kind of agree With Ed Dames' statement that anybody who would say what Vance Davis has just said, quoting NSA sources, would be in jail or worse for saying what he's saying.
	This would be intelligence that would be top, top secret.
	I don't rule out the possibility.
	In fact, if you look at a map, they could have launched south and never been over any landmass at all.
	So why did they launch toward and over Japan?
	Nothing makes any sense anymore.
	All right, let me relaunch the program this way.
	If I heard correctly, and I do think I heard correctly, Vance Davis, who was former NSA, has said to Richard and myself and all of you just now, that myself, As well as Vance, as well as Richard, are all unwitting dupes of the government behind the government.
	That is what you said, is it not?
	That is what I said.
	And the media falls into that category also.
	The information age is so fast and so furious that people are not checking out their facts, their stories, among other things.
	It used to be When I was still in NSA in the 80s, that CNN, a new start-up news organization, used to beat us to the punch on intelligence.
	Well, they probably still do.
	In some cases, they do.
	It's a matter that even they've lost a touch of that.
	And, of course, we have the great turns of stories and how they try to bend things and grow things.
	We have it within The UFO community just as bad.
	It's human nature to do that.
	Well then, Vance, the following assumption can be made, and that is that the only way you're able to say on my radio program tonight what you're saying, the only way you're able to say that is because they want it said, which makes you an agent of disinformation or of A partial truth, or even a truth that they, in quotes, want out.
	Is that a correct assessment, Richard?
	That is a very correct assumption.
	Let me take a stab at this, alright?
	I mean, obviously, I do not consider myself a fool.
	I have spent, with my colleagues, 15 years against very considerable odds trying to get one agency, NASA, I know.
	accountable for a set of extraordinary images with stunning implications taken 20 years ago.
	This spring, with the help of this audience listening tonight, we got three sets of images.
	And the lies and the deception and the double dealing on those images would fill 10 history
	books. With people like Ben Flandon on the one hand saying it's a billion to one now that they're
	not natural. You have the official government line, it's all over, it's tricks of light and
	shadow, end of discussion. And for a lot of people not in the fray, they believe we're right
	or we're wrong and they're right.
	But there are other things going to come.
	Let me give you my take, alright?
	You asked a very perceptive question a while ago and that was, if what What Vance is discussing tonight is accurate.
	If there were missiles fired across Tokyo to either, you know, disinter, or to attack a target, or hit a nuclear reactor, and someone revealed that information on Vance tonight, on EME last night, James said somebody would be in jail.
	Let me tell you why that's not happening.
	And it has to do with what happened to Flight 800, TWA-800.
	Around 800, as you know, I got pulled into this by people calling me.
	Very similar to what's happened the last few days.
	Giving me information stories from military sources, from FAA sources, from pilot sources, from Boeing engineer sources.
	And my conclusion, even before you found Commander Donaldson, was that that aircraft was shot down with a missile.
	But why then would everyone go along with a cover-up from the FBI, to the White House, to the Navy, to the NTSB, etc., etc.?
	Because if there is an internal war between factions of this government, and everybody's enemy is the public, You know, they may have enemies among themselves, but the greater enemy is the public, because the public, if they get awakened, can bring a stop to it.
	Then it's in everyone's interest not to tip the scales too far to reveal the presence of the war.
	If you start arresting people, and putting them in Leavenworth and having trials for leakage of information, you basically tip your hand that there is an internal civil war going on.
	Well, you validate the information in the eyes of the public.
	And then you validate the information, And then for the same reason that Vance & Company were let go with honorable discharges, when by all rights they should have been made absolute examples of what you do not do when you are serving God and God.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Big rocks into little rocks at Leavenworth.
	Yep.
	So the fact that that did not happen means that the preservation of the secrecy on the internal war supersedes everything on both sides, and it's not just two sides.
	It's more than two sides.
	That being the case, I can give you more sources, in addition to Vance, who have called us, who we've talked to, some with, you know, voice changers that tell paranoia, who are telling similar stories.
	With regard to the Korean incident?
	No, this is earlier, alright?
	Alright.
	What I said last night to Colonel, to Major Dane, it's because these honorable patriotic, you know, soldiers, ...are now believing they have been sold out, that they have been lied to, that their Constitution is in the process of being tattered right in front of their eyes.
	That the chain of command is disintegrating.
	I was not whistling victory.
	I was telling it exactly as I perceive it from first-hand sourcing.
	And what the statements that I have had sent to me are, of what was said, of that talk, um, Ed Dames confirmed it.
	Very much so, because the true power does lie in the hands of the people.
	The people have the power to change, to request, to enforce.
	Well, what Ed Dame said was that there was, in fact, in essence, a government within a government.
	There were things that Intel knew that presidents didn't know and should have known.
	That's a government within a government.
	Correct.
	And that also that government within the government has a policy that the public is too uneducated to handle the truth.
	So they feed false truth and mix it with some truth.
	Let's see, for the sake of the...
	Richard, for the sake of this discussion, let's assume it's all true.
	And that there is this secret government within our government.
	One that would actually subvert the Constitution, our entire way of life, the USA, blah blah blah.
	There's no way that I could believe that this group would allow this kind of exposure without killing somebody.
	The problem is, when you create bodies, Arthur, when you create bodies, you create questions.
	The key parameter is to keep questions from being asked, to relegate those of us who are pressing the envelope, seeking hard answers, to the friend.
	Every single day I get email from a gazillion people giving me a list of the bodies around President Clinton.
	It's endless.
	You know, the evil people associated with President Clinton have died.
	So, um, if they would do that, then they would certainly dispatch a Vance Davis without blinking twice.
	Correct.
	And they didn't.
	Let me bring up something that happened that changed our case, I believe, Art and Richard, very much, in 1990.
	What?
	We were not.
	We were in solitary confinement.
	We were kept in cages that were not used for years.
	And I guarantee you, we were not going to be heard from, seen, because we were not allowed to make phone calls to our family, to friends, anybody.
	We were muffled.
	Completely and utterly.
	Now, as I say, you look at, oh yeah, their intelligence, they're going to be questioned.
	Okay?
	But then something happens.
	In Fort Benning, Georgia, that changed the whole process.
	A certain media, a cameraman from CNN, climbed over a high security fence in Fort Benning, Georgia, to get photographs of us.
	Really?
	That changed on August 10th, the whole story, because all of a sudden, everything leaked out all over the news.
	And August 7th, a story appeared in Army Times.
	And when they were told directly, the person in charge, the colonel, was told not to report a thing, and he did anyway.
	That is a fact.
	Boy, I'll tell you strange stuff.
	Which means there was someone who understood due process and constitutional law and the uniform code of military justice and following the letter of the law, not making the law unto yourself.
	And we did change some things.
	We were the first to ever do this in the history of the United States.
	And most likely, we will be the last.
	As a group.
	Because they did change the military justice booklet to make sure this doesn't happen again.
	You mean they've actually changed it?
	Hold it.
	They've modified the Uniform Code of Military Justice?
	Yes, they did.
	In what way?
	They made it, and I have it on my release documents and the documents from the military and from ENSCOM, that if you are an intelligence field and you go AWOL, it can be considered a death sentence.
	So they shoot on sight?
	In a time of war.
	Just the same as it's treated, as a deserter is treated in a time of war.
	Sure.
	That is called special dispensation upon people who have TSC clearances and work in the intelligence community.
	That bothers us.
	I can imagine that, actually.
	I can imagine.
	So, in that sense, yes, Mr. or Major Ed Dames is correct.
	Now, let me ask a very important question, alright?
	Which is, if Ed is If Ed is honest, if Ed is consistent with his role in the U.S.
	Armed Forces and his role as a technical remote viewer, reporting the astonishing, world-shattering events, Art, that he has sat on this show and reported, doesn't this transgress some national security code?
	Don't you think somewhere someone would say, wait, you're talking about blowing the sun up.
	We maybe shouldn't let them know about that.
	Richard, in his defense, he is now running a private company and the information gleaned has been since he's out of the military and inside tech.
	In fact, I've asked him about it.
	He says that's why he left the military because he began to get this kind of information As part of the Remote Viewing Program, and he wanted to move into the world and investigate all of this, so he's found this out as a civilian, not a... He rarely talks about intel from when he was in the military.
	And I watched very carefully how I stepped around that when I was in also, Art, as we did on your show a few years ago.
	Because there's things I will not discuss that I worked on within that Well, in your case, Vance, what the hell difference would it make?
	I mean, if you can sit here and tell us there's about to be a coup d'etat with the nation taken over from within, then you ought to be able to say anything.
	Everything else would be small potatoes.
	That's where my attitude and my view of things, doing research over the past eight years, in the past three years, forming a company, and lately in the corporation, Yes, I have a policy that I have always tried to follow, Art, and that is honesty, integrity, and truth.
	I believe in freedom of choice and when people are not letting the public or letting certain people know that there are choices out there and there's a perception of doom and gloom, when all that can be changed, when the people that live and work and And give the government their hard-earned money, have the right to make changes and demand changes.
	And demand truth.
	I mean, NSA was set up with their money.
	The intelligence community was set up with their money.
	Yet it's the most secretive organization among other... Like you call it the ABC government, okay, is what we call it.
	That's money that's from the taxpayers.
	I know.
	And we aren't told about them.
	All black budget, of course.
	Yes.
	People say, oh, they ended technical remote viewing.
	Mark, do you believe that?
	Um, not particularly, actually.
	Because in the intelligence community, technical remote viewing is only one piece of a multitude of information gathering devices.
	Oh yeah, I've asked every remote viewer that I've had on, and I think I've had most of them, if not all, and they all say remote viewing has ended.
	Which is interesting, because if it worked, it wouldn't have been ended.
	I mean, anybody with two cents worth of common sense would know, politics or not, chuckle factor or not, if it really worked, it would still be going on now, period.
	Even if it worked 25% of the time, they would still use it.
	Yeah, of course.
	Let me say why I got really intrigued with Vance's story and his abilities and his collaboration, apart from the political aspect.
	You know, a government within a government and a cadre, as I said last night, that exists to suppress information that people deserve to know about.
	As you know, I'm pursuing the line of the hyperdimensional physics model.
	We have now published papers We have a very vigorous research program ongoing.
	I'm very well aware, yes.
	I have some news to report tonight on that front.
	As part of the paper which is on the web, we strongly started looking for an original copy of Maxwell's original 1873 treatise, which is the one with the original quaternion equations or space equations.
	Yes.
	That basically describes theoretically This is how Ed Dames and Vance Davis and other remote viewers can do what they do.
	It's the theoretical backbone, the unified field theory underlying, among other things, the concept of remote viewing.
	Alright?
	So, you are contending, boiled down to English, that remote viewing is a function within the realm of hyperdimensional physics.
	Yes.
	And within the realm of the human species.
	In other words, consciousness is a facet of this physics, and its ability to transcend conventional space-time coordinates and constraints is implicit in a hyper-dimensional model that transcends three-dimensional space-time constraints.
	And we don't get into the details tonight because we don't have time, but the point is, we were given, suddenly, a few days ago, an original copy of Maxwell's 1873 treatise in two volumes 900 pages $3,500 as a gift to Enterprise and we are now in the process of designing a mechanism to put it on the web unexpurgated in all its splendor and fascination has not been seen by most physicists ever
	And by more than a select handful... Well, I have... I will say... That would be incredible.
	I will say this.
	I've heard from a handful of scientists, mathematicians, people in the art sciences, who have read your paper on the web and really do think there is something to it.
	But wait till they get a look at the real Maxwell.
	Which is 900 pages, and Keith, I'm giving you fair warning, we're going to have to design some mechanism to get this out to a lot of people easily.
	And that's why Richard is talking to me and my people, because we have avenues of doing that.
	All right, but Richard, I think that's another show.
	Well, no, no, I'm not going to go any further.
	Another night.
	And what I want to do, if we're going to spend another hour together, I want to keep the two of you online.
	And begin to bring the audience online and let them ask either Vance or you any question they want.
	Absolutely.
	That's what I want to do.
	Is that okay with you guys?
	That's okay, Art, if we can discuss for about 10 minutes the issue going on with Moscow and certain movements in the terrorist organizations.
	Well, What do you know about Moscow?
	Our president is now there.
	Chairman Mirdon was not confirmed.
	They're going to try again.
	The communists say they're not going to vote him in.
	They'll stop him.
	They'll submit other names.
	What do you know?
	That they have a general who has the majority of the military behind him that has worked out another deal.
	Who is in league with Qaddafi.
	What deal?
	What is the deal?
	And a certain Bin Laden.
	Ben Laden?
	Yeah.
	Ben Laden?
	In Afghanistan, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And he's tied to a general in Russia?
	Yeah.
	Who is going to do what with Ben Laden?
	A coup.
	In Russia?
	To bring back power to the communists?
	Yeah.
	Did you hear tonight the report out of Moscow that the head of the Duma The communist leadership was saying that Yeltsin was pushing the country close to civil war.
	Yes, I absolutely did hear that, yes.
	Okay.
	Alright, you two stay right there.
	Boy, the plot really thickens, doesn't it?
	That is true.
	That statement was made that Yeltsin is pushing the country, Russia, into civil war.
	That could happen.
	I'm Art Fell.
	Well, boy, I'll tell you, we are really in the middle of something here.
	Thank you.
	Vance Davis is here.
	Vance has a really strange background, to say the least, including being in the NSA, he says.
	Richard quotes Vance as a source for the statement made last night, uh, about the missile that was fired that is strange.
	I mean, you go look at a world map, folks.
	Look at Korea.
	Just find Korea on the map.
	It's not that hard if you have a globe in your house.
	And look very carefully at what they could have done versus what they did.
	North Korea could have fired this missile or missiles, depending on your point of view, directly south.
	You can see that on a map.
	They would have crossed nobody's territory.
	North Korea juts out from the south.
	So they could have fired it south into the ocean, but they didn't.
	They fired it or them.
	East, toward, and over Japan.
	It would seem on the face of it to be a very poor decision.
	I mean, go look at the globe yourself, or a map, and you'll see what I mean.
	Vance is saying he's got sources that remain in NSA that have told him all of this.
	We're about to let the audience ask questions, but We definitely do want to talk a little bit about Russia, if Vance has information on Russia.
	And here they are again, Richard and Vance.
	You want to say one more time, please, what you know about what's going on in Russia?
	I just got news on CNN that, in fact, the Duma has agreed to vote one more time, soon, maybe as early as Friday, on Chernomyrdin.
	I don't think that he's going to get through.
	That's my take on it.
	Maybe the third time around, but maybe not at all.
	And what is it?
	You say there's a general in Russia in league with Bin Laden, that hard little terrorist that we just tried to not kill when we bombed the hell out of where he was.
	Officially, we tried to not kill him is what they said.
	Um, and that there's going to be a civil war in Russia.
	In fact, the Duma did say that Yeltsin was pushing the country towards civil war.
	And you're saying that's... Are you saying that's what's going to happen, Vance?
	There... I... Yes.
	Very strong, very strong probability that's going to occur.
	I don't see the Duma putting in Tremerden.
	They're tired.
	Uh, they've been promised other avenues of getting their power back.
	And we have to remember, the same people that ran Russia, before they supposedly fell and became a democracy are still in power today.
	That hasn't really changed.
	It's a lot of games and a very intricate, very deep web being wound in all the stuff that we're playing with here and over the months you've been talking about on your radio show and so forth.
	All right.
	Qaddafi, who's been a thorn in our side since the 80s with You know, the peanut man, our very esteemed president, the last Democrat president, in fact, before Clinton, has... One thing has happened that has really messed up the Muslim world, in a sense.
	And that is, Russia is fighting, and I'll use a word I was told, fighting with the Great Western Snake.
	And Richard, we are the Great Western Snake, right?
	We are the Great Western Snake.
	Now, there used to be an old flag of the Republic of the United States, which was one of the original flags in the early part of the last century, which had, you know, stars and stripes and the banner and a logo, Don't Tread on Me.
	There is one of the original 13 colonies.
	I think it's Vermont, the state of Vermont.
	whose state flag is still the Don't Tread On Me.
	Today, Yeltsin presented in Moscow a replica of that old flag to William Jefferson Clinton.
	And as I told Richard, and Richard kind of knew that he'd seen it, they do have a golden torch in Moscow, given as a gift and built to replace the stolen statue. As a replica of the torch of the Statue of Liberty.
	Right. Look, I'm getting wild. I couldn't even count all the facts. I've got faxes burying
	me here in my room. And I'm going to give you some idea of the kind of responses I'm
	getting right now. And then we're going to go to the phones.
	Here's one. Please ask your guests if the missiles launched toward and over Japan had
	warheads. And if so, were the warheads conventional or nuclear.
	I cannot answer that question.
	I was not given that information.
	All right.
	Richard?
	Um, let me give you a piece of data that is in line with that question, which is a very good question.
	Can you answer the question?
	The Japanese government tonight is mounting a major effort at deep sea salvage of the missiles and their warheads.
	I bet they are.
	Good point.
	No, that is actually CNN.
	No, no, I believe it.
	Uh, and if I were the Japanese, I'd damn well want to get them too.
	Alright, um, now here's somebody who supports you.
	Vance Davis is telling you the truth.
	I have had a secret clearance since 52.
	As part of our clearance, we were required to read the communist white paper that, uh, in 54 was read into the congressional record by a senator.
	My copy's been sent to my son, so I can't give you the numbers, dates, and names tonight.
	The plan and schedule was all there, just like Vance is telling you.
	That's one.
	Now, here comes a rough one.
	Art, the Gulf Breeze Six, and that's what you were called, Vance.
	You were one of the six, right?
	The Pensacola News Journal, yeah.
	Called you the Gulf Breeze Six.
	We're given honorable discharges after they handed over 1500 pages of notes.
	These pages contain predictions that were made in seven sessions using a Ouija board.
	Clearly, with all due respect to Vance, he is not as credible as Major Dames, for Richard to prop up Vance as a reliable source is questionable.
	Either one of you can... May I hit that straight on the head?
	Yep.
	If we are dealing with an unconventional physics that allows us to transcend space and time and view events halfway around the world, Russian submarines, all the interesting skullduggery that Ed and his colleagues were involved in, and the people at SRI before, and Hal Puthoff before that, and Vance after that, then why are we limiting the abnormal?
	And forbidding us to consider that Ouija boards are also another technological tool of this hyper-dimensional physics.
	In other words, once you have crossed the Rubicon... You know me, I'll go for anything.
	All bets are off, and we must assess the data in terms of its intrinsic value, not in terms of a prejudice as to its source.
	Now, let me make a comment there on top of that, Richard.
	The Ouija board was a tool to focus The information that the body was receiving, not the other way around.
	The Ouija board received nothing.
	It was the body, my body, with Ken Beeson sitting on the other side, receiving information in our brain, translating it, putting it onto the board.
	The board received nothing.
	Okay.
	Vance, did you write a book?
	Yes, I did.
	What was it called?
	Unbroken Promises.
	I thought so.
	You have a copy, I believe, Art?
	What we're going to do is put a link up on our webpage to Unbroken Promises.
	You haven't said a word to me.
	Keith Roland, my webmaster, called and said, hey, did he write a book called Unbroken Promises?
	I said, I'll ask.
	So the answer is you did, so we'll put a link up.
	Now, here's one more fact, then we're going to the phones without fail.
	Art, I read an article about the Gulf Breeze 6.
	And in that article, it was mentioned that when they were arrested, a satanic Bible was found in their possession.
	That's fine.
	If that's the answer, fine.
	So the answer is no, huh?
	In fact, one of the reports, too, from people that thought they knew what they were talking about, you've got to remember, we're in solitary confinement, and talk to no one, that we were there to meet Jesus Christ coming down in a UFO.
	This is how ridiculous it got.
	Okay, so the answer straight out is no.
	No, we did not.
	I am a Christian, Art, and I stay away from the satanic or the dark side of movement.
	Because it builds chaos, it builds fear, it builds doom and gloom, and I believe it's in our power.
	You had a gentleman, Art, I believe, that I love, that claims he can move clouds, and you guys did experiments?
	Neil Slade, yes.
	Yes.
	I think, if that's done again on the scenarios we're talking about tonight, we can change things.
	Alright, um... That's my belief.
	Alright.
	But no, we did not have a satanic Bible.
	Alright.
	Uh, now I'm going to just go randomly to these phone lines.
	I, there's no, on this program, you don't know what the hell you're gonna get.
	So, hey, brace yourselves, uh, both of you.
	Hey.
	Um, on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland, Vance Davis, and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	Uh, I'm in Atlanta, Georgia.
	Atlanta, Georgia.
	All right, you're gonna have to yell at us, everybody.
	Okay.
	Uh, do you have a question, and if so, for... Actually, actually, I'm surprised I got on so fast.
	I've been dialing for about ten minutes now.
	Well, I just picked up this line.
	So, anyway, do you have a question?
	Oh, actually, a few.
	First, for Mr. Davis, what was your MOS?
	Was it Bravo, Charlie, what?
	It was, at one point, an 05K and became a 98K U1.
	That's Elon, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	Okay, I'm big in, so I can relate.
	You said you hang out with kilos and hogs.
	Ah, okay.
	That sounds right to you, then?
	Say again?
	That sounds right to you then?
	Which part?
	The part you just asked him about.
	That sounds legit.
	Yeah, we're talking the same language.
	Alright, good.
	Just a basic preliminary skill test.
	I got you.
	Okay, as far as the Ouija stuff, that's interesting you brought it up because when I was at DLI we used to play on the Ouija board and until about the time somebody got kind of like a case of possession and then we decided not to do that anymore.
	And that is a danger, yes.
	Yeah, I mean, he was a lot of fun goofing around with spirits and stuff, and weird stuff really started happening, and so we just said, no, we're not going to do that.
	And I will tell you this, caller, I don't necessarily agree with channeling, because I believe the same danger lies there.
	Well, you just, like, lay yourself open to whatever comes along.
	If you say, come on in, well, whatever.
	I get a real impression, I mean, I don't want to digress too far from what we're talking about, but Or what you guys are talking about but I found that what I could tell and I actually met a guy who is another Charlie there that who is really into that for some time until he got himself spiritually in trouble with it.
	By his own admission he said he accepted a sin which like got him in like really big trouble.
	There's spirits, good, bad, and... Alright, we don't have a lot of time, so if you have any relevant... I don't want to digress too much, but there was... You can't count on what's on the other end.
	That's what we got down to.
	Go ahead, go ahead with your next question.
	Okay, well... Yeah, I had more than one question.
	Well, at least ask one.
	Okay.
	As far as the stuff from the... From what you're talking about with...
	The Koreans and all that stuff and what you get from the NSA and all that, for all the things that you mentioned and how they're keeping all that stuff separate, the information filtered and stuff, one thing that a principle, as I recall from very basic schooling, was filtration is the normal thing for many presidents.
	Sanitization is a normal procedure.
	All right, well, we'll hold it there.
	In other words, it is normal to withhold information from presidents, you said?
	Yes.
	You agree with that?
	Yes.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Vance Davis and Richard Hoagland.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	Denver.
	Denver.
	Turn your radio off.
	It's off.
	Good.
	Do you have a question?
	If so, for whom?
	Just a statement, if I may.
	I turned the show on and I heard Some of the earlier discussion about your guest discussing the coup or the government within the government.
	Yes.
	And I've been reading on this topic since I was in high school and in the last year I've read three books that take it really from its inception in this country in the twenties with Ellen Dulles and his cabal.
	So you're saying you believe it all?
	Oh yeah.
	Alright, I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Vance Davis and Richard Hoagland.
	Yes, I'd like to ask a question.
	Good.
	Okay.
	Go ahead.
	Go.
	Okay.
	My question is, are you saying that Maitreya Davis is one of these fascists?
	No.
	I do not believe that.
	Ed Dames was a trained, remote, technical viewer.
	I met once and saw a couple times General Stobelbein.
	I was under General Odoms there at NSA for a period of two years.
	That's how long they run in their office.
	And that was very real.
	Ed Dames, I think, most likely is possibly being fed information Just like I am, and we're being utilized.
	You're being utilized?
	Yep.
	Please, can somebody answer this for me?
	What in the world is Project Starman?
	What is he doing with teleportation, or what is this group, this fascist doing with teleportation?
	This obviously would be a question for Ed James, not Vance Davis.
	Yeah, because I cannot answer that.
	I'm sorry.
	This whole spook stuff is really getting me down.
	I mean, Who to believe?
	Even yourself.
	Am I being used?
	Are you being used?
	Is Richard being used?
	I think all three of us are being used.
	That might be.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Good evening.
	Good evening, where are you dear?
	My name's Christina and I'm calling from Las Vegas.
	Okay, you're going to have to yell at us, you're not very loud.
	My name's Christina and I'm from Las Vegas.
	Right.
	I'd like to know if Vance remembers any of his 21 days in jail.
	I remember every single one of them.
	Okay, so you don't believe you were brainwashed into what you're speaking about right now?
	No, because they left us alone.
	In fact, we had a sergeant... That's a good question, then.
	It is.
	We had a sergeant that came up to us and was starting to confront us and do a little soap deal with us.
	Soap deal?
	Yeah, you put a soap in a sock and you beat the hell out of the person and it doesn't leave any marks.
	That was stopped immediately by a colonel.
	And said you will not touch these soldiers. No one will discuss with them talk to them or anything
	All we were we were in three days of interrogation Christine
	And on that third day a phone call came in. This is a true story. It can be collaborated
	that uh White call a call from the white house came in to fort benning,
	georgia And the investigators were told to wrap it up and end it
	that we were being released All right.
	And on that note, we're going to release you for the half hour and we'll be back.
	You know, there are some pretty wild sides of this that I must say I have a bit of a difficult time with.
	However, the story of the Gulf Breeze 6 is as strange as it gets.
	And that investigation was Dropped like a gigantic hot potato.
	Somebody got a call from somebody.
	We'll be right back.
	Alright, um...
	Once again, Richard Hoagland and Vance are here.
	I have a statement I'd like to make real quick.
	A concern I have, and I think Richard has the same concern if I might, Richard.
	Go ahead.
	Fire away.
	I think that right now our President is in Russia.
	Whether we like his politics or the person or whatever is not an issue.
	He is our elected official in charge of our business, our nation, the top CEO if you want to call it.
	Yes.
	And with things going on in Russia and Bin Laden and Qaddafi being involved with the information we have, I would like to put out that I hope his security team is really, really checking everything out over there.
	It is my perception that something has been set up to occur.
	Well, I don't think he should have gone over there in the first place.
	I totally agree.
	It's a mission from hell, as far as I'm concerned.
	The summit from hell.
	There's absolutely nothing they can do over there about anything.
	No.
	They're both presidents.
	It may not even be presidents very much longer.
	And they're both in very much danger.
	Yeah, well, that may be.
	All right, let me say something.
	Yep, you go ahead.
	I want to say a couple of things.
	First of all, let me ask a question.
	Who is perhaps the most famous remote viewer in history?
	Ingo Swann?
	No.
	Oh, you asked me for a guess.
	He was, I think, the original.
	I don't mean to guess.
	You know, it's actual documented fact.
	If you agree with it or not, it's documented.
	Who?
	His name is Nostradamus.
	Oh.
	All right.
	Trick question.
	Second level.
	No, it's not.
	If Nostradamus is real, if Ed Dames is real, if Vance Davis is real, if Ingo Swann is real, there is a physics to this.
	There is a model, there is a rational mechanism to figure out how it works.
	Hyperdimensional physics, right?
	And I think we're on to it, yes.
	That's my personal prejudice and we will see.
	Let me read... My point is that Nostradamus somehow foresaw certain interesting events, which various people now claim have come true or have not come true, the most intriguing of which is events around the end times.
	The Armageddon Strip.
	The end of the world, the end of history.
	And a key part of that has to do with a blue-turbaned Muslim figure rising from Russia and initiating World War III.
	The other day, when from this separate sourcing Qaddafi's nuclear hajj and then the hill came to light, my instinct was to turn to Vance, who has absolute experience in dealing with these Cutting edge issues.
	And ask him to focus on two things.
	Qaddafi and Moscow.
	What he came up with in particular in terms of an agenda in Palestine.
	An agenda on the West Bank.
	An agenda in the Middle East.
	dealing with qaddafi and with a fundamentalist islamic
	he hot is so
	startling but it demands that we focus some attention tonight on what that
	sourcing is telling us that's the the call to arms for the great jihad has gone
	out and the woman of the torch
	shell dot this is a
	agreement among many people concluding that certain terrorist organizations to
	unite What does the woman with the torch shall die part mean?
	That means the Statue of Liberty?
	That is one implication.
	I believe, and Richard and I may disagree or agree on this, that I believe there may be a terrorist act pending upon the Statue of Liberty in New York.
	Which would shake the foundation of this nation for a short period.
	No, it wouldn't.
	It'd piss us off.
	If anybody screwed with our Statue of Liberty, it wouldn't end freedom in the United States.
	It wouldn't change our government.
	It would piss us off and we'd go after tooth and nail Anybody who would do that and the bombs would fall big time.
	Well, let me give you an interesting... Let me give you an interesting play, Art.
	Wouldn't bring down the country if they brought down the Statue of Liberty.
	In 1941, on December 7th, we had a similar incident happen, did we not?
	Yup, didn't bring down the country then either.
	No, but it really galvanized us, didn't it?
	Yes.
	So, maybe that's part of the play.
	Yeah, that's what this would do.
	Alright, here we go again.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Vance Davis, Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yeah, good morning, gentlemen.
	I'm calling from Phoenix.
	All right.
	I have more of a statement than anything, and I almost didn't call, but something that was said finally clinched it.
	All right, what was that?
	This is something you're going to remember, Art.
	I don't know that Richard... A recent interview you had with Sean David Morton.
	Okay.
	And so many of the things that I have heard tonight imply, either directly stated or implied by Vance and Richard tonight, Remind me so much of so many things that Sean David Morton said about what's going on.
	Okay, well, he missed that one, so what is your question?
	Well, like I said, it's not so much a question.
	Your statement is that... It meshes so well with what he said about, and even the developments in Russia, that Sean David Morton had stated that President Clinton He was ready to sacrifice his country to the New World Order.
	One of the things that he did was make our military targets in this country vulnerable to Russian missile attack.
	And the final thing that really clenched it is just simply he mentioned... Well, it seems to me, caller, with all due respect, we can't have our cake and eat it too here either.
	President Clinton is part of the New World Order, ready to sacrifice America to the New World Order.
	He's a puppet, or he's the uninformed.
	He's a popular elected guy who doesn't know what the hell's going on because there's a secret government.
	Now it can't be both.
	I'm suggesting that he's being manipulated and that was one of the things that was said in that interview.
	Let me make a statement to that, Richard, please.
	Because Richard and I had this discussion the other night and I said, Mr. Clinton is a patsy or a use or a cover by other forces.
	But he has a belief for it, Mr. Clinton does, that he is here to make a difference, that he wants to leave his mark upon the public and upon the world.
	And because of that, he can be used.
	Alright, well, I still say you can't have a president who's not clued in on what's really going on with regard to a government within a government, if that's the theory.
	And at the same time have a president who's bound and determined, as was suggested, to turn us over without firing a shot, if possible, to the New World Order folks.
	I totally agree with you, Art.
	I'm just saying his attitude can set that up.
	I don't think he's purposely trying to turn us over.
	I think he knows something's going on, but someone isn't telling him all the information he feels he needs.
	Well, then he needs to meet with Hillary more frequently.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Vance Davis and Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Hello there!
	Hi, where are you?
	Oh, I'm from the entertainment capital of the world, Iowa, California.
	Hollywood, right?
	This is not a second-level trick question.
	No way!
	All right, your question, then, is... Gentlemen, I just would like to be briefly, in a nutshell, explained exactly what is remote viewing.
	I'm... Oh, boy.
	I know, I can't... Can it be explained in a nutshell?
	Yeah, I'll do it.
	Remote viewing is...
	It is somebody who is a disciplined psychic.
	In other words, the military established certain protocols over a 20-year period to, in effect, discipline psychics so they could visualize military targets, visualize gas canisters in a rack, that kind of thing.
	Military program went on for 20 years.
	I believe it's still going on.
	Everybody else says no, except a few.
	I think it's still going on.
	It was very real.
	Nightline did a whole half hour on it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	Yes, hey, yes.
	Yeah, I got a question for Vance.
	Okay.
	Well, where are you, sir?
	Uh, in Honolulu, Hawaii.
	All right.
	Hey, hey, Vance, how you doing?
	Pretty good.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing real good.
	I wanted to ask you, you worked at Gablingan?
	Yes, I did.
	Okay, and all the guys that were with you, they were all in your same section, all 05Ks?
	No.
	Annette was my analyst.
	She worked the day shift.
	Ken worked a different section, although he was an O5K trained.
	Yes, we were all O5K trained, although we worked in separate areas.
	You guys did this on your own.
	Yes, we did.
	In the building, you know, at the Flare 9 or in the barracks?
	Is this something you guys did in the box or outside of the box?
	We did most of the sessions, all the sessions were done outside the box.
	What do you mean by a tasking format?
	I mean, like, how did you go about picking the topics of what you wanted to get information about?
	Before each session, which a couple of weeks would pass before we even did that, we would
	write down questions off the previous session and write down very distinct, the old practice,
	and it sounds like you've been there, done that, and all that fun stuff, wore the shirt,
	that we used our training and being analysts to write down very direct, very pointed questions,
	not generalizing everything as is done on a lot of circles.
	Okay, and did you guys try to put any of the information you got into the system?
	Yes, we did.
	We discussed with a couple officers, one of them who was fairly high-ranking, I don't want to give out a rank or a name, told us that we could not put this into the system because it would cause problems and that the system had been usurped in many areas.
	It would not get to the source that it would need to get to.
	Caller?
	Caller, you obviously are familiar with what this man, what Vance was doing.
	Does what he's saying ring true to you?
	Yeah, it does.
	When you look at the people that are in that business, sometimes they will, by their wits alone, give America what it needs.
	This sounds like an instance where they weren't able to To produce a product that would get submitted, though it just wasn't in a format appropriate to the system.
	Were you in a similar intelligence field in the military, or out of it, or in the NSA, or whatever?
	22 years, Art.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Thank you.
	And, you know, I was tempted to say, Vance, at some Through some portion of tonight's show.
	Jeez, what a bunch of crap.
	But I'm now leaning pretty solidly in the other direction.
	You were... I don't think that back when I heard about the Gulf Breeze 6, even when I had you on the air, that I properly understood exactly what happened.
	And what I'm now beginning to realize is that you were Using this Ouija board only as a conduit, essentially you were doing remote viewing, or working in that realm, gathering information, and attempting to pass it back to the government.
	Is that correct?
	That is correct.
	Well, I got it now.
	Mark, you know, some nights we have to do, and I'll discuss, you know, obviously up here the timing, we need to do a show on consciousness and the physics.
	Because there are other people that I will introduce you to who are in the civilian community doing astonishing, corroborative work using this technology in ways that have nothing to do with the military or national security agenda, but are helping mankind in ways that desperately need to be accelerated.
	Yeah, okay.
	Um, okay.
	I don't, I don't reject that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Hovland and Vance Davis.
	Hi.
	Mr. Bell.
	Yes.
	This is Robert in San Joaquin Valley, California.
	Hello there.
	Well, I'm beginning, I'm becoming nervous.
	This show is really something.
	I've got a couple important things, but before I do, when you talk to Stan Dale.
	Yes.
	Perth.
	Yes.
	If you haven't already heard this, I heard one report and then there wasn't any other information about the water contamination in Australia.
	Yes.
	Have you heard about it?
	Yes.
	Okay, well, Richard and Vance.
	Yes, sir.
	Richard, I'm going to talk to you and talk you into telling us what the C stood for.
	Remember some time ago?
	Anyway, it's a pleasure to talk to you, and Vance, I salute you for coming forward like this.
	Do you remember, gentlemen, the Japanese a couple of years ago, or thereabouts, moved that plutonium Around South America?
	By ship.
	By ship across the Pacific.
	Yeah, and I got photos of when they unloaded it.
	And now you mention about what's happening in North Korea and all.
	I just wonder about that plutonium.
	I wondered if you recalled that.
	And gentlemen, I wanted to ask you one quick thing.
	Before you leave the show, I've got a laundry list of things that I'd like to relate to you gentlemen.
	You might be interested in the information.
	And my travels and things I picked up on, so I'd appreciate if you could give us the listeners, especially for myself, I'd like to be able to... A way to contact Vance, right?
	Okay, we'll do that.
	You're welcome.
	Vance, if somebody in the audience wants to contact you, do you have an email address or a mailing address or something or another?
	I have all three, Art, and I am going to put myself out because I believe it in itself is also a protection.
	I'm going to give my phone number.
	What?
	I'm going to give my phone number.
	Are you sure you want to do that?
	Well, let's give the two first and we'll decide by the time we leave whether I do that or not.
	Well, we're close, so go ahead and give your email address.
	My email address is hdr at azlink.com.
	Got it.
	Do you want to give an address is harder, but go ahead.
	Okay, a best address to get a hold of me is directly would be P.O.
	Box, 250, Placitas, New Mexico.
	This is my company box.
	87043-0250 Again, that's P.O.
	Box 250 Positas, New Mexico P.L.A.C.I.
	T.A.S.
	87043-0250 Now, you want to give out your phone number?
	Go ahead.
	It's in Phoenix, and they can call information.
	I am listed.
	But it's area code 602 964 0201.
	I only ask that people call after 8 o'clock in the morning, Phoenix time.
	Well, lots of luck.
	I wouldn't have given out my phone number on a bet, but people who insist on doing it, I don't stop, so you're going to get a lot of calls.
	I chose to do that as a sovereign individual, and I have to take the responsibility of that.
	Well, you're either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid, one of the two.
	I've been claimed to have been both.
	That's that Egyptian dualism again, Vance.
	Richard, we're going to end it here, so any final words for the audience?
	Well, our fax number at Enterprise is 505-771-0820.
	is 505-771-0820. In terms of the physics, Tom Bearden and Tom Van Flander and myself
	are going to be in Seattle at the Seattle Center laying out a lot of the background
	to what I'm terming the Armageddon script, which is a lot of what we did not get into
	Right.
	At the Seattle Center on the 26th and 27th of September.
	Okay.
	There's a contact number 360-491-3714.
	360-491-3714.
	There's a link on our website to the information, through your website, at arcbell.com.
	And I guess I'd like people to keep asking questions.
	When you see something on CNN, when someone lobs a missile over another country, and our State Department and the Pentagon say, ah, it's just a test.
	Don't settle for second best.
	Ask questions.
	The one thing that I think we can agree on tonight is that we need more and better questions.
	These are extremely dangerous times.
	But as Vance said earlier, I think we have the potential to rise above the times.
	All right.
	We do it.
	You'll get no argument from me.
	Gentlemen, to both of you, thank you and good night.
	Good night.
	Thank you very much.
	Right.
	Good night.
	All right.
	Vance Davis and Richard C. Hoagland.

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