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Sept. 4, 1998 - Art Bell

02:53:18

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Stanislav Lunev - Russian Defector

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning as the case may be, and welcome to another edition of the best and actually the largest and literally the behemoth of talk radio now, Stretching commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the pole.
	Worldwide on the internet, courtesy of broadcast.com.
	Thank you, broadcast.com.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, next hour, we are going to endeavor to do something rather interesting.
	Now, you're going to have to bear with us because what we have for you is Russia's highest-ranking military defector.
	uh... the highest-ranking moderate military defector ever to uh...
	ever to defect and he wrote a book called through the eyes of the enemy's
	status law for us And that's it.
	And he said, quote, Russian military intelligence does everything it can to prepare for a war that it considers inevitable.
	Let me be very clear about this.
	The GRU, Russian military intelligence, is still recruiting agents, still preparing for war with the United States as we approach the supposedly peaceful post-Cold War millennium.
	The peaceful post-Cold War millennium isn't so peaceful in Russia.
	Alexander Levitt says Russia is close to catastrophe.
	They're talking about a civil war, about Yeltsin pushing the country toward a civil war.
	The Duma has put off the vote on Chernomyrdin.
	That maybe there will be a compromise, maybe not.
	It seems not like not to me.
	294 to 51 was the last vote to not approve Yeltsin's choice.
	Last time Yeltsin got three no's in a row, he had to shell the Parliament building, you remember that?
	So that's what they're in the middle of over there right now, and of course the country is melting down financially.
	So we'll talk to Stanislav next hour, if we can get him They continued to look at what occurred with the Swiss Air Flight 111 tragedy.
	And the more I hear about this, the more I think I have my guess about what happened.
	It's just a guess.
	It was confirmed for me earlier that they were actually dumping fuel as they were in a spiral, a circle, coming down from 37,000 feet.
	They're actually dumping fuel.
	And when you dump fuel, it becomes a mist.
	And I don't know how tight their turn was, or their spiral down was, but one has to imagine that what might have happened is that the aircraft engine that I think was on fire, or at least whatever fire there was, ignited the mist of fuel that they were spiraling down through.
	Kind of like a fuel air bomb.
	And that's my guess.
	Um, I also base it on the fact that all they have found are little, tiny pieces.
	Biggest piece they've even found so far is like a car hood or something.
	Something about that size.
	I think you get that kind of, uh, a break-up.
	And the break-up was incredible.
	But just, uh, by hitting the water.
	So, there was an explosion at what altitude?
	I don't know.
	Some think they sheared, that a plane sheared off part of a lighthouse.
	Maybe it was part of a plane that sheared off part of a lighthouse.
	Who knows?
	Anyway, they're still looking.
	When Alan Greenspan speaks, people listen.
	And he said, the central bankers are growing more concerned about the impact of the global financial crisis on the US economy.
	He said, this is really strange for Greenspan.
	He said, they're just as likely to vote to cut interest rates As to raise them, he said, now listen carefully here, this is Greenspan, quote, it's not, it's just not credible that the United States can remain an oasis of prosperity unaffected by a world that is experiencing greatly increased stress, end quote.
	That's Greenspan.
	President Clinton, this is my big news on Monica Lewinsky, said I'm sorry.
	That's it.
	Said he was sorry.
	So that's the Lewinsky News.
	Here in Nevada at Nellis, about 12 aboard died in the crash of two US Air Force helicopters early Friday.
	They were doing night work and probably using night vision equipment There's a good, good chance that could be true.
	All right.
	A 16-year-old has sent me what I think may be an accurate copy of the Third Secret of Fatima.
	I don't know.
	Don't hold me to that.
	I said, may be.
	And I'm having it posted.
	Keith is about to post it.
	I would appreciate your comments on this.
	I've been on a search for the third Secret of Fatima for a long time now, as you well know.
	And I've had many versions, many copies of, I don't know, three or four versions that are circulating, and I think this one, well, you tell me, it'd be up on the website.
	Do you remember the STEM people?
	Somebody called the other night and said, this guy went in for a The cat scan of his brain they took and there was no brain in there and all he had was a stem?
	Comes this.
	Carmel Valley.
	The President reported her neighbors are Hydros.
	That's H-Y-D-R-O-S, Hydros.
	People who have fish brains instead of human brains.
	They are telepathically communicating with the garbage man and causing Damage to her property.
	Turned over to Adult Protection Services.
	Hydros.
	She claimed her neighbors were fish brain people.
	And that they had been telepathically connected to the garbage guy.
	And there is, you know me, I can't resist a cat story.
	And this is a cat story and a California story.
	California is a wonderful place, but, boy, I'll tell you, it's not the place it used to be.
	Talk about regulation, and regulation, and taxation, and regulation, and more regulation.
	That's California today.
	Art, for your amusement and comments, please note I have not been listening to your show.
	The following, had I not, the following would not have occurred, as I would have been peacefully asleep and blissfully unaware of the situation.
	Sunday, August 15th, two o'clock in the morning, I'm up listening to your show.
	Suddenly, a disturbing noise began at my living room.
	It was the distinct noise of my furniture being destroyed by one of my pampered house cats.
	I rushed to the scene, only to find that Missy, as in quotes, hard at work at the back of a good chair.
	So I immediately took preventative measures and got a clipper and snipped the offending front claws.
	This, of course, provoked countermeasures.
	And, yes, my cat managed to sink her aged and broken half-fangs to the joint of my middle finger.
	It bled a little bit, but soon felt fine.
	The following day, Sunday, I spent several hours gardening, and the wound got dirt in it.
	By Monday, all swollen up.
	Tuesday, I decided better go to the doctor's, secure antibiotics, which I did.
	I had to fill out a form, though.
	Which asked, whose animal was it, and was it vaccinated, and the circumstances of how the bite occurred.
	I wrote that I'd been clipping her claws in response to her sharpening them on the furniture, checked the box marked vaccinated, said that she was my indoor house cat.
	Upon reading the form, the doctor laughed, gave me a tetanus shot, antibiotics, and sent me on my way home.
	All was improving until the following Sunday morning at about 1030 AM, Arrives a Santa Cruz County Animal Control Officer showing up at the front door.
	Since I had again been kept up by your show the previous night, I hadn't gotten dressed yet, didn't know who it was, so I didn't answer the door.
	When my fiancé returned from coffee, he brought in a note demanding that we call the County Animal Control Office, which we did.
	They demanded that our cat be quarantined for 10 days following the bite.
	Seven days had already passed, and that we could bring her on down on the tenth day for inspection, or that we allow an officer to come and inspect her on that very day.
	Well, since we have six cats and the county only allows two per house, we decided to bring her in.
	They intended to charge us $25 for this pleasure.
	However, they did waive the fee, which, even if it had been charged, could not have paid for the man-hour costs.
	To send an officer out on a Saturday morning.
	I think the animal control office completely overreacted to a very normal reaction of a very normal cat.
	So I find myself asking, who's more competent?
	The cat with a brain the size of a small apricot?
	Or the Santa Cruz County Animal Control Office?
	How would you answer that?
	The moral of the story is, if you come to California and your cat bites you, Tell the doctor you bit yourself, then had your cat suck the wound.
	That way, you'd get appropriate antibiotics without the hassle.
	Have a nice night, and don't let the kitty cats bite.
	And I have a few more goodies for you yet this evening.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	The Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
	The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
	Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Somewhere in Time shows and two weekly classics.
	And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that.
	The reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us.
	Yes, if we know.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials, and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	so the bottom line is government will never ever this All right.
	We're about to go to the lines here.
	Open lines in the first hour tonight and then later on as well.
	These are a few things that have been actually found to be written on people's tombstones.
	In a New Mexico cemetery, here lies Johnny Yeast.
	Pardon me for not rising.
	Real.
	In a Silver City, Nevada cemetery, here in my state, the West, here lies, lays, here lays Butch.
	We planted him raw.
	He was quick on the trigger, but slow on the draw.
	A widow in Vermont wrote upon her husband's new stone, Sacred to the memory of my husband, John Barnes, who died January 3rd, 1803, as a homely young widow, age 23, has many qualifications of a good wife and yearns to be comforted.
	And then finally, the simplest is always the best.
	Definitely found in a Georgia cemetery, simply, I told you I was sick.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Turn your radio off.
	I just did.
	That's good.
	I've been trying to get a hold of you for months.
	Okay, have you ever done a show on the Bermuda Triangle?
	Oh, sure.
	Oh, sure?
	Lately?
	Not lately, no.
	Not lately.
	As a matter of fact, now that you mention it, I haven't really heard of anything much happening In the Bermuda Triangle lately.
	Have you?
	No, I haven't.
	But... You know why I think that is?
	Why is that?
	Because I think it has moved.
	It's moved?
	Oh, this is Diane from Minneapolis, by the way.
	I'm a first-time caller.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	It's moved?
	Where did it move to?
	Um, I don't know.
	But I'm really serious when I say that.
	I think there are areas of the Earth that are anomalous.
	Very anomalous.
	And that was one of them.
	I've been on cruises to Bermuda and flown to Bermuda and airlines and cruise ships will not sail through it or fly over it.
	Did you know that?
	Well, maybe that's why we're not hearing about it anymore.
	I guess you could suggest it was either one because the Bermuda Triangle moved or people finally decided to begin avoiding it altogether.
	Beats me.
	And I've got another question.
	Have you ever read the book The Messengers?
	Oh, yes.
	I interviewed the author of The Messengers.
	Oh, did you?
	Thank you very much.
	I sure did.
	Nick, some time ago.
	Nick Bonick.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is John from Colorado Springs, Colorado.
	How you doing?
	Colorado Springs, Colorado.
	I'm coming out.
	I'm coming out your way.
	Oh, I know you are.
	Did you get a paperback book from me a couple months ago, Alternative 3?
	Oh, yes.
	Okay.
	I just want to know if you got that.
	Yes, I got it.
	Thank you.
	Great, great.
	Well, I'll try to get up to Denver and see you here in about two weeks.
	September 19th.
	September 19th.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	Well, I'm glad you got the book, and I'd like to see you do a show on that.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	It's pretty much Conspiratorial Central Alternative 3, the various alternatives.
	They've been published.
	Conspiratorial stuff.
	I'm going to check at the half-hour mark, but I think Keith might have this third secret Fatima version up.
	Came from a 16-year-old boy, interestingly.
	Be very interested in your opinion.
	It is very graphic and specific.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Going once, going twice, gone.
	Wild card line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Uh, hi Art.
	Uh, thank you for taking my call.
	You're welcome.
	Where are you?
	This is Ralph from Salem, Oregon.
	Okay.
	I heard a, uh, comment on, uh, Dr. Dina Bill's program, which is 54 years in Salem, uh, concerning the use of, uh, Viagra.
	Uh, what about it?
	Uh, this better not be a joke.
	No, no, no.
	I don't allow Viagra jokes on here.
	It's a health concern, I think.
	He relates the results of some studies that show that at least part of the side effects from Viagra, which can result in health and cardiac patients, may be from the fact that it acts as the facilitator.
	In other words, patients or individuals with heart disease that would normally be having sex are... Well, that's a no-brainer.
	That's a no-brainer.
	Look, anything that would cause you to do something that you wouldn't do normally, you know, you may be taking your chances.
	I mean, you're taking your chances.
	Of course, you take your chances with everything, with a lot of things in life.
	When you cross the street, it's my attitude about flying.
	I flew to Europe very shortly after Flight 800 went down.
	I'm going to be flying to Africa next month, and I'm going to do that not too far down the line after Swiss Air 111.
	But you've got to get a kind of an attitude about it, which I have, and that is, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen, you know?
	And there's nothing you can do about that.
	And it could as easily occur to you, walking across the street, tripping in the bathtub, cracking your skull open, There are lots of ways to die, and lots of ways to live, if you follow me.
	As long as you're alive, you might as well go ahead and live life and not worry about losing it all the time.
	Anyway, that's the secret of how I get through all the things I get through that I hear about on this program, so you might want to know.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	It's a song that's about a young man who's been taken right back where he started from.
	When you first came my way?
	When you first came my way, I said no one could take your place.
	And if you get hurt, if you get hurt by the little things I say, I can put that...
	I can put that...
	You can dance, you can fly, and in the dark I'll shine.
	See that girl, watch that scene, she can let me be.
	you you
	Friday night and the lights are low.
	Looking out for a place to go.
	Where the table-like music's getting in between.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Glad to be here on a Friday night, Saturday morning, as a holiday weekend begins for everybody.
	What are you gonna do?
	Probably, uh...
	What kind of barbecue or something?
	Isn't that what most people do on these three-day holidays?
	Barbecues?
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device
	users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your
	phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
	The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
	Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Somewhere in Time shows and two weekly classics.
	And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	when you look at what's going on around this planet it's almost as if someone
	has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden
	you know i wonder how people are how so many of you in so many parts of the
	country live with the humidity that you live with
	Thank you.
	I know that may sound strange.
	I think we adapt.
	We do adapt as human beings to our environment.
	And I live in the desert.
	I'm used to, in the summer, single-digit humidity.
	Sometimes 10 or 11 percent, if it's a bad day.
	But the last couple of days, we've had the remnants of some sort of storm or another that was generated off Mexico.
	And it's been just cloudy and raining.
	And raining and raining and raining.
	And it makes you feel awful.
	Even I notice my paper is all limp.
	Paper is limp.
	You know, it's heavy with humidity.
	It's hard for me to imagine living in an area where there is humidity again.
	But I'm sure that when many of you would come out and visit here in the desert, you would go, oh my God, how does anybody live out here?
	My sinuses are all dried up.
	And that is the way you feel when you first come to the desert.
	But for me, it's the exact opposite.
	So, to some degree, we absolutely do adapt, don't we?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Red in Ohio.
	Red in Ohio.
	That's not a political statement.
	That's your name, right?
	No.
	I have a Bermuda Triangle incident that you might find interesting.
	Okay.
	How old is it?
	Hang on a second.
	And let me get the book, just a second.
	Now, see, you're supposed to be prepared when you call.
	He's walking into a... Don't trip over anything.
	He's obviously having to walk away somewhere.
	Okay, I got it.
	You're supposed to keep it next to the phone.
	Right, I'm sorry.
	It's alright.
	I had it with some Xerox copies of things.
	I see.
	Alright, so what is the name of the book?
	The name of the book is The Antilles Incident.
	And how, when was it published?
	November 1997.
	Ninety-seven.
	About an incident that occurred when?
	Uh, let me see.
	Have you read the book?
	Yes, I've read the book.
	And the incident occurred in 1988.
	That's a while ago.
	Yeah.
	Ten years ago now.
	Well, according to the book, it involves A destroyer escort which encountered a submarine UFO.
	It had a firefight with the UFO.
	Wait a minute, a submarine UFO?
	Right.
	What do you mean a submarine UFO?
	According to the book, they had instructions to keep land and sea and air in view in their patrol incident.
	Because apparently command knew there was a UFO in the area and they encountered it.
	There were normally submarine UFOs are referred to as the enemy.
	Well, they're enemy submarines.
	So I'm trying to grasp what you're saying here.
	Are you talking about like the classical in the air alien UFO underwater only underwater?
	It was both underwater and in the air.
	Okay, I actually have heard of an incident like this from a few callers, believe it or not.
	It came up out of the water.
	Right, in the Antilles area.
	They had an encounter with it that caused the ship's engines to go offline.
	Yep, I've heard of this.
	I would actually like to read that book and I'd love to interview the author.
	And three of the crewmen We're kidnapped.
	Yep.
	I know.
	I've heard about this.
	Who wrote the book?
	It's a man called Donald R. Todd.
	Donald R. Todd?
	Mm-hmm.
	G-O-D-D?
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	I'll see if I can find the book.
	Thank you.
	And locate the author.
	It's always a job.
	You know, it's such a job trying to get phone numbers of people that you want to have as guests.
	It really is a job.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Mr. Bell.
	Mr. Caller.
	This is Robert San Joaquin Valley, California, sir.
	Yes, sir.
	How are you this evening?
	I'm just spiffy.
	I got a few things that are important, but I wanted to ask you, when are you leaving for Africa?
	I think it's October 3rd through the 10th.
	Just a week.
	Oh.
	One week.
	Well, I always sort of hold my breath whenever you go.
	Wanting you to get back safely.
	Yeah, it's well that you do that.
	No matter when I leave, things happen.
	Believe me, I pray for you when you do go.
	And there could be an October surprise.
	And if it's going to come, you know it's coming between the 3rd and the 10th.
	I wanted to say something about our Bell After Dark newsletter.
	Yes.
	For everyone that listens to your show, if they don't subscribe to it, I'm telling you, to me it's like the National Geographic.
	You keep those there.
	Each one is a keepsake.
	Well, it's the National Geographic of the Unusual.
	It is, and I mean, I wouldn't even loan one out to my best friend, fearful that I wouldn't get it back.
	I mean, it really adds to the show, and you're able to refer back to those issues.
	I mean, I highly recommend to people that have not subscribed It really is important.
	Stop already, they're going to think you're a plant.
	Well, it is great though.
	Thank you.
	Okay, I wanted to mention a few nights ago on one of the major networks on TV, they had such an unusual show about automobiles, vehicles turning against the owners.
	Did you see that or hear about it?
	When cars attack.
	Yeah.
	No, I didn't see it, and I'm killing myself for that.
	I mean, there was one thing I really wanted to see, and I missed it.
	That is, the producers, if you can get them on your show, because I saw, it really was eerie when we were looking at the tape from a security camera at a Dillard's department store.
	We were looking out into the yard where all of the cars were parked, and there were four automobiles.
	No one was in the automobile.
	Simultaneously, they moved to another place.
	I mean, it was really... Sure they did, Robert.
	Come on.
	I told you.
	You've got to see that.
	Oh, I'm doing it again, aren't I?
	Yeah, come on now.
	We got into a discussion based on this last night about what would be the most difficult car to kill.
	You know, just in case they did, like, come alive and come after us.
	And some guys gave facts and said, well, if there is going to be a war, then your son should be a general, because he sure did slay that Metro.
	All right, Robert, thank you.
	Which I thought was rather cruel.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Okay, hi, this is Kevin from Minnesota.
	Hello, Kevin.
	Hey, I'm supposed to say hi from the people on down at IRC.
	Okay, down at IRC, the Art Bell Chat Channel.
	Right.
	So anyway, I was looking at the website, and I'm looking at your message from Fatima, or whatever it is.
	Yes, sir.
	And it's really, really lame.
	You think so, huh?
	I do.
	I think that it's just about as lame, and I mean, anyone can make up a prediction.
	Oh, no, it's true.
	It's true.
	It's absolutely true.
	Um, I've had about, oh, I don't know, two or three or four versions of it up now, and you can't ignore the possibility that one of them is real.
	Well, but you can't ignore the possibility that anything is real.
	For all I know, there could be magic leprechauns inside my radio station right now, so anything could be real.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	Anything could be real.
	We know only one thing for sure.
	There was a third secret of Tatumak.
	So terrible that they wouldn't, uh, the Popes would not allow it out, and still have not.
	Okay, right.
	I'm not saying that it's not this secret.
	I think that as a prediction, it's really meaningless.
	The people that are going to believe it are already praying, and the people that don't aren't praying.
	Well, I guess that's fair.
	On yet another tombstone.
	I've got a tombstone thing here.
	And where is it here?
	Is it the atheist one?
	The alt-right stuff?
	No, that's it.
	Yeah, that's it.
	I've heard that joke before.
	It's really funny, but I mean... It's really quite true.
	It illustrates the point that those of us that don't believe this stuff already aren't going to be convinced by it, and those that do may or may not be convinced.
	So tell me, it sounds like you're not praying then, huh?
	Uh, no, I'm an atheist.
	Actually, the first... Oh, you're an atheist?
	I am.
	The first program I listened to was... Oh, excellent, with the atheists.
	So you really, truly believe in absolutely no God?
	That's right.
	You think that when we die, it lights out as much as it was before you were alive?
	I don't necessarily think that... You simply cease to exist?
	I don't necessarily think that it lights out as much as that I don't think that there's proof for anything actually happening.
	I mean, it could be the whole Christian idea, but I don't know.
	Oh, you don't know?
	Right.
	Now, that's not quite the same as... Well, no, it's... Oh, yes, it is, too.
	I mean, you... I guess you can say that, but... I mean, there are so many people who believe that there is something after life, that if you were... How old are you now?
	17.
	Oh.
	So easy to be an atheist when you're 17.
	Oh, don't pull that.
	Oh, I'm pulling it.
	I'm pulling it, because you have this long life ahead.
	Now, you honestly don't think, when you get older, there's a possibility that as you face your own mortality, you'll consider the possibility that there's more and you'll err on the side of caution, at least?
	Well, but caution, I mean, which God do I then choose?
	Do I choose the Christian idea?
	Do I choose the Islam idea?
	Which one do I choose?
	Well, you could choose to believe that there is a creator without a specific name.
	Well, that's definitely possible.
	I mean, to say that I absolutely don't believe that, to me, is just as insane as the insanity that I claim for Christians.
	To absolutely claim that there is no creator.
	That is at least consistent, I will give you that.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Alright, well, goodbye, and I can see now why you're not praying, and why you go to the third secret.
	So we'll have to get some more opinion.
	I thought it was pretty good.
	It came from a 16-year-old boy in Las Vegas.
	Las Vegas.
	I don't know how he got his hands on it.
	Maybe something, maybe nothing.
	Atheists.
	Really interesting.
	Here lies so-and-so, all dressed up and nowhere to go.
	An atheist.
	Tombstone.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes.
	Turn your radio on.
	It's on.
	Thank you.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Lansdale, Pennsylvania.
	Lansdale, Pennsylvania.
	Good.
	Okay.
	Is this a screen or am I on?
	I hate that.
	I don't have a call screener.
	That's correct.
	Okay, I'm listening to WPHT 1210 AM here in Philadelphia.
	Philadelphia, yes.
	Okay.
	Art, a pleasure is all I can say.
	Thank you.
	I've got to tell you, the way I found out about your station was through a book.
	A book called Alien Encounters.
	Written by Chuck Millsler.
	Missler.
	Missler, correct.
	And Mark Eastman.
	And Mark Eastman, yes.
	I've had them both on the show once.
	I wish I had seen that or heard that.
	I'm a bit nervous here.
	They wrote about me in their book?
	Yes, in fact, there's a chapter, Chapter 8, called The Quickening.
	You're kidding.
	It's a reference to you, and then there is It says, the quickening in 1995, Mark Bell, late night radio talk show host, coined a term to describe the accelerating pace of events in the last few years.
	He called it the quickening.
	And it goes on, and I'm not going to read it all, but at the end it says, Bell is careful not to interpret the signs that he sees.
	He well recognizes the wide variety of religious and scientific and philosophical options Among his listeners and is a master at balancing the tight rope.
	Well, that's well said.
	And that's exactly correct.
	I'm a talk show host.
	I'm not a prophet.
	I interview prophets.
	I'm not a seer.
	I interview seers.
	And all that genre of folk, people who have had MBEs, you name it, I do it.
	From what I've heard the last few months that I've been listening to you, yes, I do.
	But if you have an opportunity, Art, I suggest you get the book, Alien Encounters.
	The title isn't really great.
	It's more into the quickening phenomena.
	I believe a lot of your callers and a lot of the quickening phenomena And I've been researching it for about two years, reading books, yay thick, on Egyptians and the whole antiquity of man.
	And for me, I am a born-again Christian, and this book definitely brought it together for me.
	These gentlemen, Chuck Millsler, my sir, and Mark Eastman, they have many tapes out that From a scientific point of view, back up everything they say.
	Oh, I know.
	Well, thanks for the call, and it's interesting to know there's a chapter in there about the quickening.
	In 1995, I saw all of this as clearly as can be, and that's why I wrote that book.
	Now, so much of what's in that book, we are dead smack in the middle of.
	And it didn't take very long, did it?
	A lot of what I wrote about 95 was not going on in 95, but I said it was about to be, and it is now.
	And I repeat, I am not a prophet.
	All I did was look at what was going on around me, because I had to every day to do my job as a talk show host, and I said, holy moly, there really is something going on here, for lack of a better phrase.
	A quickening is what I used.
	And it is an accurate phrase to describe what I think is going on.
	And that is, events are speeding up, events are spiraling up, ratcheting up very quickly.
	Human events are becoming more frantic at a rather exponential rate.
	And we are headed toward an event.
	And by the way, that will be part of what we cover Sunday on Dreamland, this coming Sunday on Dreamland.
	It's all about the Mayan calendar.
	You're not going to want to miss it.
	The Mayan calendar ends in 2012.
	In 2012.
	And I have an author who has says, he has figured out what it all means.
	And Sunday it will unfold before you.
	And we talked a little bit about this during that program.
	Actually quite a bit.
	Maybe that'll give you a little hint of what's to come.
	So if you've never quite exactly understood the Mayan calendar, what it meant, why it abruptly ends, and so forth and so on, you're not going to want to miss Dreamland on Sunday.
	Alright, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, and if things work out, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, we're going to be speaking with Stanislav Luna, Who wrote, Through the Eyes of the Enemy, he is Russia's highest-ranking military defector.
	With the news about Russia today, it should be an interesting interview.
	Don't touch that dial.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th 1998
	Don't say that you love me Don't tell me that you love me Don't say that you love me Don't tell me that you love me
	Don't say that you love me Don't tell me that you love me And in the still shining of the year, in the trees and
	clouds Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired September 4th, 1998.
	Good morning, everybody, across this great land and well beyond.
	Tonight is going to be an interesting evening for a little while here.
	I have on the phone Russia's highest-ranking military defector ever.
	And he warns of threats to U.S.
	national security.
	He says Russia is preparing for inevitable war against America.
	Inevitable war, I said.
	Wrote a book that you can get, we'll tell you how I guess, through the eyes of the enemy.
	He is Stanislav Lunev.
	And I'll have to see if I'm pronouncing his, uh, name correctly.
	He is, um, obviously Russian.
	He has an accent, and we're going to try to make it through this, uh, because it's very important that we hear what he has to say, so... I've probably got some questions for him that he has not been asked before.
	We'll find out.
	But I'm really curious about a lot of things.
	I'm curious about what it takes to, uh, Uh, to mentally, uh, prepare yourself for defection.
	Defection from, you know, one country to another, period.
	So, he'll be up next.
	Stand us off, Luna.
	Sound of explosion.
	50%.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device
	users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	able to connect to most of the offerings of the post website on your phone
	in a quick and streamlined fashion i just really should be interesting
	uh... from i think the heart of what used to be the enemy somewhere around
	washington dc or something status law uh... stand can we call you stand
	uh... you've of course of Uh, where are you actually, Stan?
	In America.
	Well, yeah, I know.
	I mean, where in America?
	Uh, East Coast.
	Uh, Washington, D.C.?
	Uh, no.
	No?
	I'm sorry, it's out of my place.
	All right.
	Um, Stan, when... Let's see.
	How long did you live in Russia altogether?
	In Russia?
	All my life.
	How old are you now?
	Very old.
	Fifty-two.
	I'm fifty-three, Stan.
	I'm fifty-three.
	So what do you mean, very old?
	Fifty-two.
	After fifty, usually it's very old.
	You know my favorite joke?
	If, after 50 years old, somebody wakes up in the morning and doesn't have any pain, it means you are already dead.
	Yeah, you're probably right.
	So, you lived all your life in Russia.
	What part of Russia were you born in?
	In Leningrad.
	Just now it's St.
	Petersburg, but it's one of the paradoxes from Russian life.
	Because one of the largest Russian military districts located around St.
	Petersburg has absolutely the same name as before.
	Leningrad Military District.
	Well, I was in St.
	Petersburg not long ago.
	Beautiful, beautiful city.
	And a little scary for me too, I thought.
	Why?
	Why?
	I could explain all of that.
	It was scary for me because I felt like I was being watched all the time.
	When did it happen?
	This was a couple of years ago, just a couple of years ago.
	Ah, a couple of years ago, yes.
	So it means that nothing changed.
	And the Russian security service is still following every foreigner the same way it was done in former Soviet Union.
	You know, we took a cruise to Russia, and I went to Moscow, even.
	I got to eat lunch in the Kremlin.
	And one of the people that was on our cruise was a young blind man.
	You know, he couldn't see.
	And he had a video recorder with him, a camcorder, you know, a camera.
	And he was using it only to record sounds that he could take home with him.
	And unfortunately, he recorded some sounds near a factory.
	And this was in Moscow, and people were showing ID, some kind of ID, when they went into the factory, and they arrested him.
	They arrested him.
	And he almost missed the ship, because they were questioning him and his mother, and they were going to put them both in jail.
	Anyway, so, you know, yeah, things have changed, but things have also not changed.
	Isn't that true?
	Actually, very little which was changed.
	This example you provided with this young man.
	I'm sorry about this one, but actually this is hospitality Russian style.
	Hospitality Russian style.
	So, early in your life, you were coming up just like I was, we're about the same age, during the Cold War.
	The Long Cold War.
	You and I, I was on this side, you were over there.
	Both of us living through the Cold War only.
	You were in the Soviet military, right?
	Yes.
	What rank were you?
	What did you do in the Soviet military?
	Last military rank, a colonel.
	A colonel?
	I don't know why, but in America military people prefer to say full colonel.
	Why?
	I don't know.
	A full colonel.
	Yes, because colonel is colonel, lieutenant colonel is lieutenant colonel.
	What was your job as a full colonel in the Soviet military?
	Last 20 years of my military service, I was inside Soviet Strategic Military Intelligence Agency.
	This is JU, or Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Uh, Federation General Staff.
	Uh, this is spy agency.
	We're spying everywhere in the world.
	And, uh, according to my job, uh, I had a chance to work in Singapore, in China, in Moscow.
	Really?
	And, uh, yes, and last four years of my military service, I was assigned to Washington, D.C.
	J.R.U.
	field office.
	And I work in this country and against this country.
	When you were in this country, you say you were assigned to this country.
	You must have some kind of cover for the work you were doing.
	Yes, of course, I had civilian cover.
	What was it?
	The TASS News Agency.
	Oh, as a TASS News Agency correspondent?
	Yes, sir.
	Tell me, did they train you in journalism at all?
	For the job?
	Yes, I had special training for about one year.
	It was in the end of the 70s, because before I wasn't Links with journalism and corresponding job, absolutely nothing.
	So I need to have special training and I used several months in Moscow when I had this some kind of experience in writing articles and stories for newspapers, magazines.
	Because before my life I wasn't connected absolutely with this writing process.
	I was a regular military officer, group platoon company commander, and was recruited to the J.R.U.
	after my graduation from military law school in Military Political Academy, Moscow.
	There are rumors here in America that at some place, some place in Russia, they have built a typical American town, a place where people train.
	Is that true?
	I don't know exactly because I heard, I heard about this once, yes, rumors exactly.
	You too?
	Yes, that KGB they had this special training center equipped and built like American small city with people who need to speak English only, American English.
	Yes.
	But I never been inside this city and I I had the same information as you, so I heard about it.
	Was that your first time in America?
	Yes.
	Because before, I was trained for the intelligence against China, and actually I worked against China in China, in Singapore, and inside the former Soviet Union.
	Well, the organization that you work for, so people might understand, in America, would it be like the FBI, the CIA, the NSA?
	What would it be like in America?
	You can compare former KGB intelligence with American CIA.
	CIA?
	Yes, but my former agency, you can compare for combination between different American agencies.
	First of all, a combination of DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, Special Operations Forces Command with Headquarters in Tampa, National Reconnaissance Office, which is in charge of American Space Intelligence, and U.S.
	Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps Intelligence Agencies together.
	Because in JRU, all these institutions are only sub-directorates.
	Oh my.
	All right.
	So the mission of these agencies, many agencies that were combined into one that you worked for, was to gather intelligence about what?
	About foreign countries' intentions, capabilities, armaments.
	What kind of information did you gather?
	All types of information which could be used by commanders Why are you still alive?
	I don't know.
	uh... or future war and uh... it should be in uh... real war against any other
	country in the world uh... plus
	uh... not only information gathering but effective measures by special operation forces commanders
	why are you still alive i don't know what to do it
	uh... you are you are the highest ranking military defector from an
	intelligence organization ever
	from uh... the soviet union Ever, ever, ever.
	When did you defect?
	What year?
	In 1992, after about four years of staying in Washington, D.C.
	Was that, during the Cold War, a great danger for of the soviet union that uh... people like yourself sent to
	america uh... begin to turn
	native was that a big danger did that happen to many others who
	uh... were able to come to the west uh... you
	you could it was a really good because
	uh... my information uh... really uh... was very good and uh... dangers or
	uh... former soviet union or for russian federation what were you actually supposed to be doing here
	You were said to be a journalist for TASS, but what were you really supposed to be doing?
	Now?
	No, then.
	Ah, then.
	Then I was a spy.
	uh... military spy who worked against uh... america undercover task force agency correspondent and uh... my main more primary mission in this country was uh... penetration through american national security uh... system first of all uh... trying to find american planes and uh... intentions connected with military use against the former Soviet Union and last period of my life in Washington, D.C., Russian Federation.
	But how would you do that?
	I mean, you are obviously a Russian, ostensibly a reporter, and so how would you get close to any important U.S.
	defense information?
	Can you say how?
	It's very typical spy business because first of all I need to find people who was possible for recruitment and develop relations with this person to the stage when this person began to assist me in my spy business.
	It means recruitment of people.
	And what do you, what did you look for?
	Did you look for people who were in financial trouble?
	People who were in some way dissatisfied with their jobs, or what constituted a good prospect for recruitment?
	Actually, you already answered your question.
	Because, of course, we look for people who are not satisfied by their living conditions, by their life, by their bosses, or somebody else who needs extra money.
	And in his mind, he was or is not strongly opposed to the possibility to sell his secrets for money, which he needs.
	And let's say that in Washington, D.C., it's not so difficult a mission because in that area, actually every other is looking for American government and Yes, very interesting information for foreign intelligence.
	So you did this not only in America, but worldwide for 20 years?
	Yes, before I made the same job in Singapore and China and in Moscow, because when I was assigned to the J.R.U.
	headquarter in Moscow, we did the same absolutely job against foreigners who visited or living in the former Soviet Union.
	Why did you defect?
	It's a very long story, Art.
	Very long story, but if very briefly I can tell you that I could not provide any more my very special services for absolutely unresponsible people corrupted From top to bottom.
	Corrupted.
	Corrupted people and with direct links with organized crime groups in Russia.
	Oh, that's a very good answer, actually.
	Were you a member, I'm sure you were, of the Communist Party, right?
	Yes.
	Now that Russia is supposedly, has many reforms, and is not about is much freer well that's what this is a
	little bit of a political i know
	uh... it's even worse than it was when you defected uh...
	and now the mafia in russia seems to control
	almost everything so as bad as it was when you defected now i think it is
	even worse do you agree
	i agree with that and uh... you were right uh... because
	i uh... in my memory i return book from time to time to the middle
	eighties uh... beginning of nineties and i remember all our hopes for the future changes
	uh... in russia about possibility of democracy about uh... some kind of reforms
	Which could change the Russian economy and change the way of life for Russian people.
	But unfortunately nothing happened and just now the situation is becoming more and more difficult for Russian people.
	And actually much more dangerous for the international community.
	Dangerous is coming from Russian Federation government activity.
	Stan, if you went back to Russia today, what would happen?
	I can make suicide here, what for?
	I will return back.
	Well, I'm sure what for is a good answer, but I mean, if you did go back now, do you think... I already said I can make suicide here.
	Oh, you can commit suicide here?
	That's your answer, huh?
	So it'd be suicidal to go back?
	Yes.
	Do you have a family?
	Yes, I have family with me here.
	Did you bring them with you, or did you start your family after you defected?
	I made this step, I mean, defection, together with my family members.
	Together with your family?
	Yes, and I tried to do it as professional.
	Without any noise and attention from somebody else from outside.
	Oh, but I remember there was noise all over the American press when you defected.
	I remember that.
	That was big news for a while.
	Alright, Stanislav, stand by and we're at the bottom of the hour now.
	Stanislav Lunev is my guest.
	We're going to call him Stan.
	He is indeed Russia's highest ranking military defector in all the history of defections.
	He was a spy for Russia, for the Soviet Union.
	And in a moment, we'll dig deeper.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	The concert was held at the San Francisco International Airport on September 4th, 1998.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	I have on the line Stanislav Luna, who is Russia's highest ranking military defector in all of history.
	He is still alive today.
	And he doesn't know why.
	To return suicidal, His mission while he was here to recruit U.S.
	spies.
	People who would sell, or for whatever consideration, give away our secrets.
	So, he was the real McCoy.
	In a moment, he'll be right back.
	108.62.
	100 862 eighty three seventy six or visit our website at term busters
	dot net remember what a hundred eighty six two eighty three seventy six
	reason availability may vary by state sample request a tougher for non-tobacco
	underwriting exam required to qualify
	you're listening to all right here once again is stands and walk back
	uh... stand even though uh... russia was in the grips uh... then and
	now of uh... of the mafia and uh... there was much of the report
	corruption the russian people are a very
	proud Very proud.
	What was your thinking like when you defected?
	It must have been very hard for you.
	Yes, it was a very hard decision for me.
	Actually, I changed my life totally.
	And yes, of course, it was not only hard, it was very difficult psychologically, psychologically, mentally, with all this stuff.
	And I made my decision by this point.
	there is a very big difficulties but i could not afford for myself to provide my very special
	services for criminals and people connected with criminals
	so you're at a very very difficult time of my life so when you defected your family was here with you is that
	correct Yes, because in 1992, after the U.S.S.R.'
	's integration, counterintelligence didn't control everything for former Soviet military personnel abroad, and they had a chance To have all my family members together with me.
	And after my decision for this defection, my family actually follow me.
	If your family had been in Russia when you defected... I would not defect.
	You would not have defected?
	Yes, if I wouldn't have my family with me.
	When you did defect, I'm sure that you spent quite some time with our CIA.
	Is that true?
	More exactly.
	I spent a lot of time together with representatives practically from all American special services.
	How long a period of time did that take?
	More than one year.
	More than one year?
	Yes.
	So you had a chance to compare our intelligence services, as they debriefed you, to Russian intelligence services.
	Is there a big difference?
	I don't think that it was a very good experience.
	I compare of Russian and American special services in time of my debriefing because in defector position you cannot collect real information about your adversary, former adversary.
	But my previous service, my previous intelligence business It was very good evidence of how American intelligence is working worldwide.
	So, I can compare Russian and American intelligence communities from my whole practice and experience as an intelligence officer.
	Yes, and you think they are very much the same?
	Not the same, not the same, because It's a different attitude, a different culture, and different organizations.
	So, American intelligence was kinder?
	Easier, do you think, in their debriefings of you?
	More friendly?
	What?
	Art, in time of debriefing you cannot propose something really about people who is debriefing you because they are professionals and they cannot afford to show you their feelings or something else.
	Yes.
	So usually they are neutral but from my previous experience when I worked operationally against this country I had a much better chance to understand what does it mean, American intelligence and counterintelligence agencies.
	So only by this reason I am disputing with you from time of my experience, before defection and after defection.
	So before defection it was much more realistic assessment about American intelligence.
	Very interesting.
	Did you have many, many secrets that you were able to give our intelligence, or did your work in Russia, in the Soviet Union, was it compartmentalized so you did not know too much, or did you have a broad knowledge?
	Actually, I had enough secrets.
	Enough secrets.
	I had many secrets, and Not only because in the former Soviet Union when I stayed in Moscow I had a very high position in my former organization, but because of a very special job which I did before in my previous experience and expertise.
	In this country We have two main political parties, the Democrats and the Republicans.
	The Republicans generally have been very wary of Russia when it was the Soviet Union and Russia today.
	The Democrats, less so.
	Do you have in this country Republican sponsors?
	People, conservative Americans, who sponsor your talking?
	Never.
	Never, huh?
	Never, but in this country you have more than two parties.
	That's true.
	You remember last presidential election, it was one more very interesting party.
	And I don't know how to say it in a few seconds, but you know, actually, when Soviet Union officials negotiated with Americans for a long, long period of time, usually it was much more easy to negotiate with the Democratic Party.
	It's true, isn't it?
	Yes.
	Many people would compare the personalities of Ross Perot and Boris Yeltsin.
	I don't know.
	and uh...
	uh... former soviet union usually came my republicans
	it's true isn't it yes you have uh... many people would compare the personalities of ross
	perot and boris yeltsin
	i don't know that i think i can i cannot i cannot
	made this compare because uh... rose perot is very responsible person and uh...
	very intelligent.
	And how to compare him with Boris Yeltsin, I don't know.
	Well, not politically.
	Both of them are kind of wild men in their own way.
	Just kind of unusual men with unusual personalities.
	I'm sorry, but to be a wild man, You could be a wild man, but you need to be smart or you are stupid like Yeltsin.
	Stupid like Yeltsin?
	Yes.
	So you're not a Boris Yeltsin fan, huh?
	No, I cannot be a fan of this person because I met with him several times.
	I spoke with him several times.
	And let's say that my meeting with him was one of the last drops.
	For my decision to defect.
	Really?
	Really?
	Really, because it happened in 1992 when he was with his working visit to the United States.
	And, by the way, I was only one correspondent in Washington, D.C.
	Soviet and foreign correspondents.
	Only one who had the chance to take interview from him after his conversations with then President Bush.
	And what was it about Boris Yeltsin when you met him and when you talked to him that obviously left such a bad taste in your mouth?
	It's very difficult for me to talk about him because I found him absolutely unresponsible person who actually thought about him himself.
	And his big family members, not about country, not about people, and the person who can sacrifice his direct responsibilities by his drinking of alcohol.
	It's not good.
	The situation in Russia now is not good.
	Again, there seems to be a crisis with Yeltsin and the Duma and the Parliament.
	And I wonder what you think will happen.
	How will this be resolved?
	Will there be a compromise, do you think?
	Some kind of compromise?
	Or do you think there will be more tanks Uh, firing on the parliament building.
	It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, And to predict what could be happened in Russia in the nearest time is very difficult.
	But usually, usually, President and Parliament, they can find compromise and finally approve new Cabinet of Ministers for Russian Federation.
	But if you keep in mind very strong position of main Yeltsin opponents in Russian parliament,
	communists, because they are just now most powerful organized group inside Russian law
	house.
	And they very strongly oppose Yeltsin candidacy for prime minister, his old buddy, Mr. Chernam
	Chernomyrdin, yes.
	Yes, Mr. Chernomyrdin.
	Well, the vote, the first vote was something like 294 to 51.
	Yes, yes.
	That 294, would that mostly be communists?
	water here that two ninety four without that mostly be communists
	uh... coordinates uh... they have to about one hundred fifty volts
	no one has sold the uh... world agreed with the children of him together
	uh... these uh... other bloc include uh...
	throughout uh... powerful organization of the russian parliament
	This is the Zhirinovsky party.
	You know Zhirinovsky?
	Yes.
	Zhirinovsky is an ultra-nationalist guy who requested Alaska return back to Russia.
	And advised the Russian military to wash their boots in the Indian Ocean.
	But this guy is very popular, and his organization, his fraction in Parliament, they vote against Yeltsin's candidacy, Mr. Chernomyrdin, together with communists, and with, by the way, with Democrats, so-called Yabloko or Apple political movement, led by Mr. Yelinsky.
	So it was a coalition, a coalition of opposition, who decided to vote against Chernomyrdin.
	A coalition?
	A coalition, yes, but later, let's say the day before yesterday, Zelenovsky changed his position and said that next time he will not oppose the candidacy of Chernomyrdin.
	If the Duma were to submit names for the Cabinet, do you expect to see Jernowsky's name?
	I don't think so, but it's possible if... That could be the deal, huh?
	Yes, it could be a deal, but not Jernowsky.
	I think somebody from his people.
	What about Alexander Levitt?
	Just now he is one of the most prominent politician leaders in the Russian Federation.
	He is a former Airborne General and he is extremely popular for people who are between communists and Democrats.
	All right.
	So he has been saying, Alexander Levitt has been saying that he believes Boris Yeltsin is pushing Russia into civil war.
	Levitt talking too much and sometimes he doesn't follow his own words.
	He said only a few days before.
	But these words that Yeltsin government pushing Russia to the civil war, yes, it's correct because all what is going on just now in Russian Federation clearly demonstrating that in this country any other day it could be social explosion of people who cannot afford to be in the same very very bad position and situation is uh... there are just now
	and uh... you'll be social explosion would be in place it would be in the country is
	there's both thousands of nuclear weapons and uh...
	uh... hundreds of metric tons of chemical and uh...
	biological weapons yes we see pictures now
	uh... russian civilians trying to get into their banks I'm sure you've seen the pictures.
	And there is no money.
	The ruble now is about 17 to 1 against the dollar.
	Russia economically is completely melting down.
	And when that happens, usually you have governments that change or you have civil wars.
	Usually, but not in Russian connection.
	Because, Art, you are absolutely right that Russia's economy is just now melting down.
	But it's not melting to down.
	And keep in mind that Russian people, during about seven decades, lived under totalitarian regime of Communist Party.
	And in this time, when it was total repression against the whole population of the country, actually the best brain went out from Russian society.
	We were washed out from Russian society.
	And the Russian people, just now there's so much patience to everything, and looking only for their survival.
	That they are not active politically or socially, and it's very difficult to wake up Russian people.
	But if finally it's happened, and Russian people will wake up, it would be very difficult to find a way how to return these people to the normal life.
	And what just now is going in Russia, of course, it would be some kind A revolution for all other countries.
	But it's not enough for Russian people to wake up and destroy all this regime.
	They have had hard times for so long that this is just more hard times for them.
	Is that right?
	Yes, you're right.
	Absolutely.
	Do you believe that the Russian military and the Russian leadership Still plans to wage war against the United States.
	Come on.
	Okay.
	Because it's well known for me, well known for specialists.
	Of course, it's not known for American public.
	Why?
	I don't know.
	But let's say that recently, a couple, only a couple months ago, Russian Strategic Air Force Command had very, very big field exercises.
	And in time of this maneuvering, during several weeks, Russian military command trained military personnel for the future war against the United States of America.
	All right.
	Last week it was Navy exercises in Northern Fleet.
	And they trained Russian military personnel for the war against America and American friends and allies.
	First of all, by NATO organization.
	Stan, hold it right there.
	We'll be back to you after the break.
	And that's, of course, the point we'll pick up on.
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the American Public Television Service.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Stanislav Lunev is Russia's highest-ranking military defector in history.
	And he is also my guest right now.
	He defected to the U.S.
	ostensibly here spying as a TASS News Agency correspondent.
	Matt doesn't like Yeltsin.
	Believes that Russia is planning a war against the U.S.
	Still planning a war against us.
	I asked him about that and he said, Are you kidding?
	And of course I'm not kidding.
	We're going to probe into this area in just a moment.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach, and unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see.
	Alright, once again, here is Stan's.
	Stan, welcome back to the program.
	Here.
	You still awake okay?
	Yes.
	Good.
	You know, I want to, before we get back into this war thing, I want to ask you one very important question.
	Earlier in the interview I asked you why you defected.
	And you said because you could no longer do the job that you were doing, spying, for The corrupt people that you were working for.
	Now, maybe this would be hard for you to answer, but if there was not corruption, if there was pure communism, maybe there is no such thing, but if there was some, if it was pretty much a pure communism, would you still be there?
	During the last several years, I had a chance to look through the history, read a lot, and I found that actually in real life, it's impossible to have pure communism.
	That's right.
	Many of us also think impossible to have pure capitalism.
	but anyway they will follow their own agenda and in this case to believe that it's possible
	to have some kind of communism, no it's impossible.
	Many of us also think it's impossible to have pure capitalism.
	But in this country you do have much more socialism than we did have in the former Soviet
	Oh, really?
	Yes, and you know that your government from time to time is really concerned about its own people and trying to assist people who are in very bad shape financially, economically, you know, your welfare programs.
	Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying.
	You know, of course, what MAD is?
	so uh... in this country you could watch more socialism that
	uh... we did kill a group of mysterious
	yes uh... uh...
	i understand exactly what you're saying do you think you know of course what
	uh... mad is mutual assured destruction
	you said that uh... russia still plans a war against the united states
	What has always kept us from war is the fact that we would all kill each other, mostly, and poison the planet, and commit suicide because of so many nuclear weapons.
	Now, if Russia still believes that it will have a war with the United States, how does it believe it will survive such a war?
	It's very difficult to say that Russia itself, but let's say Russian people, Russian people, ordinary Russians, they don't care about the future war.
	They just now they're thinking how they can survive.
	In this very terrible situation in this country now.
	Oh yes.
	And actually, in general, Russian people, they do not have some kind of hostile feeling against America or against Americans.
	We do have so many common together in history and culture, the same human values.
	That's right.
	And if you will return back for several years, Before, you will find that we had approximately the same social situation, not political, but America.
	America is our planet in miniature, and in this country we do have dozens of different nations, nationalities, color of skin, races, and all these people are All right, I do understand about the Russian people, but we are talking about the Russian government, or we are talking about what communists are left in the Russian government.
	used to go to a program i don't know the family all right i i do understand about the russian people but we
	are talking about the russian
	government or we're talking about what communists are left in the russian
	government if they plan a war how do they plan to be prepared but
	Yes, you're right, but Russian government, they don't care about country, people, they care about themselves only.
	And about much more money in their pocket, how it's possible.
	And for future survival, in possible future war between Russia and other world, they prepare themselves To exist for many, many years after this terrible thing that could be happening to our planet.
	Let's say that under Moscow there is one more city, underground city.
	It's special bunkers for leaders of Russian Federation and their families.
	And in Siberia, Ural Mountains, under construction there is Very big, big underground city by the size of Washington DC Beltway.
	Can you imagine this underground city?
	It's huge!
	It would be a bunker where Russian elite can survive if our planet would be destroyed for a long, long period of time.
	In America, we have pretty much a free press.
	In other words, anybody can report almost anything.
	I'm a great example of that.
	I talk about all kinds of wild things here.
	So, why is this information not widely known, do you think, in America?
	I don't know.
	I don't know because for me it's really a surprise that American people know so little about hostile countries' military plans for the future war against America.
	For me it's a surprise why America does have free press and free press doesn't pay any attention for this real danger for the national security.
	Not only for this country, but for the international community.
	In security work, Stan, you look at a country's, number one, capabilities, what they can do.
	And number two, what are their intentions?
	What do they want to do?
	Russia, of course, has the capabilities, as you said, many thousands of nuclear weapons.
	How can we believe their intentions by looking at these underground cities that are preparing for war?
	What else can we look at?
	I remember that this news that the Russian government has this huge construction in Ural Mountains.
	It was some kind of several news about this month and special hearing in Capitol Hill.
	But why American public doesn't know about this?
	I don't know.
	The American public thinks the intentions of Russia are good.
	I don't think so, because if you will follow events in Russian Federation, you will find that intentions of Russian government are not very good.
	Let's take every, every crisis which happened in the international community during
	the last several years.
	And you will find that Russian government position usually is very different from American
	position.
	You will find that in time when the whole world is worried about non-proliferation of
	mass destruction weapons, you will find that in any violation of non-proliferation regime,
	Russian government is involved.
	And, uh, you will find that, uh, actually all promises made by Russian Federation government and, uh, president, uh, by himself, uh, all these, uh, promises and obligations, uh, uh, were violated by the same government in case of, uh, nuclear Yes, I want to ask you this.
	I have business dealings with some Russians.
	most career and other countries uh... so-called in the whole life
	uh... promises you their problems is but they are not fulfilled all right so i
	don't know who do you work yes i want to ask you this on a business dealings with some russians now i don't want you
	to be insulted by what i'm going to ask you
	but i have business dealings with some russians
	who have factories in russia And that's all I want to say, but I have dealings with them.
	And what I have found is that Russian business people No.
	as a normal part of what i believe their culture
	block they lie about small things are you would ask them
	did you make a shipment and they would say yes automatically
	and uh... is that part of
	russian culture Strong no.
	Strong no, because it's not in the nature of Russians to lie.
	But it's the nature of so-called new Russians.
	New Russians?
	New Russians, which appeared in time of the USSR destruction and creation of so-called democratic Russia.
	People who follow example of their president and lie every other time when it's possible.
	So that is who I am dealing with is the new Russians.
	I'm sure that is true.
	Are these the people in Russia now that we think of as the capitalists, the ones who are making money, the few that are making money?
	No, just now there are tens of thousands of people who are existing on so-called business, who try to make money from everything where it's possible, and usually cheating each other.
	But this is the beginning of capitalism, and in time when by In time, when Russians themselves named their capitalism, you know how they named it?
	Capitalism Jurassic Park style.
	Jurassic Park style?
	Jurassic Park style, yes.
	They, of course, trying to make business by cheating people, lying somewhere, everywhere, to everybody.
	But...
	What can you expect from a country which is under control of a modern, strange government, under control of absolutely unresponsible people?
	Well, we hear rumors in the United States of 100 Russian suitcase-sized nuclear weapons.
	That 100 of those are someplace And of course, with all the money trouble in Russia, we worry that other nuclear weapons have left Russia and are going to the hands of terrorists around the world.
	Do you believe that is happening?
	Not now.
	Because these tactical nuclear devices, named by nuclear briefcases,
	they were designed in former Soviet Union by special... for special operation forces commanders
	and could be used by these commanders on the hostile territories
	in time of future nuclear war against targets which are highly protected
	and cannot be destroyed by regular nuclear missile strike.
	at www.plastics-car.com.
	But they are in the hands of special operations forces commanders, not terrorists.
	And could be used only by the request of the Russian Federation Government.
	To believe that international terrorists will get an access to these devices, I don't believe it.
	And according to my information, these devices are in the hands of military, not terrorists.
	And for international terrorists to get this access, it would be Extremely difficult or impossible.
	You think the same thing is true of chemical weapons and biological weapons?
	Yes, because these types of weapons could be used special operations forces commanders in time of war and absolutely the same way as conventional weapons systems.
	Here in the United States, during Ronald Reagan's administration, we had a very big military build-up.
	The Soviet Union began to fall apart about when President Reagan was talking about Star Wars, about the Star Wars program.
	That's about the time that the Soviet Union began to fall apart and break apart.
	Do you believe that the threat of an arms race into space is what made the Soviets finally say we can't afford this anymore, so we've got to go underground.
	You mean from movement of arms race from space to underground?
	Well, I mean that President Reagan was talking about spending so much money putting up the Star Wars that many people in America believe that the Soviets looked at what he was doing and said, look, we just cannot afford to keep up anymore, so we give up.
	I remember that time, and I remember this Star Wars program and all other American military programs.
	It was competition between two different systems, between two different camps, and actually, as a result of Reagan's administration strategy, not only by... as a result of his strategy, but his strategy is a segregated process of the USSR disintegration.
	It was a very, very powerful strategy.
	We worked very hard against the former Soviet Union.
	And of course, at that time I remember that the Soviet economy was overheated by these military preparations, by military build-up, and actually it was the beginning of the end of the communist totalitarian regime in the former Soviet Union.
	If you ask me about President Reagan, I am One of big fans of him, and I'm really excited of him.
	Yes, me too.
	It was not only me, but a lot of my former associates and my friends, we thought about Ronald Reagan as a genius.
	Had a lot of respect.
	He's an American president.
	A lot of respect for Ronald Reagan.
	Yes.
	Do you think the present Russian government has a lot of respect for President Clinton?
	I don't have any idea.
	I don't have any idea, but Americans, you are doing by yourself very many for the destruction of American presidency.
	Doing for ourselves, you mean?
	The destruction?
	You guys are doing for yourselves.
	That's a very good observation.
	Alright, Stan, hold on.
	When we get back, I'm going to ask about Some specific development of weapons.
	Like seismic weapons.
	Weapons designed to cause earthquakes.
	Electromagnetic weapons.
	Did the Russians develop those?
	Are they testing them?
	Are they still developing those?
	And, uh, oh yes, the war.
	When will the war happen?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from September 4th, 1998.
	Without your love, oh baby Don't hold me this way, no I can't accept I'll surely miss your tender kiss.
	Don't leave me this way.
	Baby!
	My heart is full of love and delight for you.
	Now come on down and do what you gotta do.
	And you thought it was fine Well I know, you don't ever feel the thing I feel
	Meet me in the country for a date.
	Well I know, you know better, you're the thing I need.
	Meet me in the country for a date.
	We'll be happy and we'll sing Oh, we're gonna dance the blues today
	But if I'm feeling good to you and you're feeling good to me
	There ain't nothing we can't do today Feeling good, feeling fine
	Oh, baby, let's dance the blues today Oh, let's dance the blues today
	Oh, let's dance the blues today Oh, let's dance the blues today
	Oh, tonight I can lay it down the river
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired September 4th, 1998.
	Good morning.
	If you can call it good listening to this.
	Stanislav Luna is my guest.
	He is Russia's highest-ranking military defector in all the years of the Cold War.
	He's the highest-ranking defector.
	And in a moment we're going to talk about the central issue That of nuclear war.
	Direct nuclear confrontation between the two great powers.
	stay right where you are.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
	And unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
	Now we take you back to the night of September 4th, 1998, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Back now to Stan.
	and back out of standards and you believe
	that a war between uh... uh... but what used to be the soviet union russia i
	guess now and the united states is inevitable and will happen that russia
	will attack the united states Is that clear?
	Is that true?
	Not now, and actually I cannot see possibilities when it could be happened in future if nothing would be changed.
	But you know what situation is in Russia now?
	Yes.
	And every other day, if it happens some kind of social explosion, possibility of war would be closer.
	All right.
	If you were advising an American president, Stan, and you saw the situation in Russia deteriorating very quickly, with the wrong people taking over, Would you advise our President to attack Russia first?
	I cannot advise the American President to attack Russia first by the reason that I do not have in my hands information which is necessary for the decision-making process.
	During the time that you were in Russian intelligence, would you have advised an American president to attack Russia first?
	Did you believe then that there was going to be a war?
	Only a matter of time?
	To believe that it's impossible to avoid any kind of war, but very smart politics?
	I don't think so, because in history it's happened many, many times.
	when smart policy prevented war.
	So I cannot take responsibility for myself and advise somebody to do something if I do not have all
	information which is possible to have for my decision-making process.
	It says though in your book, Through the Eyes of the Enemy, Russian military intelligence does everything it can to
	prepare for a war that it considers inevitable. Let me be very clear about
	this.
	The GRU, Russian Military Intelligence, is still recruiting agents, still preparing for war with the United States as we approach the supposedly peaceful post-war, Cold War millennium.
	Now that's very clear, and it seems to suggest there will be a war.
	Did you write that?
	And everything that is going on in Russian intelligence community now is confirming this proposal.
	Because military machine, it's not independent machine, it's working by the request of highest military political leadership, requests from President.
	And if this government cannot afford to exist in peacetime, Without crisis, it's look for foreign enemies to put attention of people from domestic problems to foreign enemies activity.
	To wag the Kremlin?
	Yes.
	Also, you said the GRU continues to train terrorists worldwide.
	As you can see, even though Russia no longer seems to be the direct enemy, Because of a desire for profit, it remains the major threat to the U.S.
	through weapons, proliferation, and training.
	True?
	True.
	And actually, my former associates by my former agency were involved in international terrorist training for a long, long period of time.
	But we never named these guys as terrorists.
	Because we named them fighters for the National Liberation Movement.
	Of course.
	Freedom fighters.
	Of course.
	And for me and for my associates, it wasn't a very good idea to take part in training of these dangerous persons.
	Because we knew exactly what is their real nature.
	I was really pleased when in 1990, I heard about special request made by former Soviet, first and last Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, who requested my agency to stop training of international terrorists, and we very welcomed his decision.
	But unfortunately in 1991, 92, 93 and later, I get news that this training is still in place, but if in time of former Soviet Union existence this training was done by political reason to establish Soviet influence in areas of this terrorist activity, just now it's going for money, because everything is for sale in Russia.
	Yes, for money, because last news I had About this one, it was about Aum Shinrikyo cult members.
	This Japanese cult which used Nov's gas in Tokyo subway several years ago.
	And these members of this cult, they received training in one of the JRU training centers in Siberia and paid for this training.
	Oh my, that was the sarin gas attack in Tokyo.
	Um, we have heard rumors of Russia developing laser, seismic weapons, weapons that would be developed to actually cause earthquakes, which are even better than many atomic weapons, electromagnetic and radio weapons.
	Development of these weapons, is it still, is it true, first, particularly about the seismic weapons?
	Is that true?
	Are you kidding?
	I know that American people know so little about this hostile country's policies and military research development.
	But for me, it was a well-known fact.
	And by the way, maybe you would be the first who will know the official name of the program.
	Which existed in former Soviet Union for the development of a seismic or tectonic weapons?
	name of this program was Mercury 18
	Mercury let me be sure I've got it right mercury 18 1 8 mercury 18 yes
	This this was what was the idea behind?
	Do you know?
	How they could... Was it a strategic placing of nuclear devices to cause... No, no, no, no, no, no.
	Because seismic weapons is absolutely different type of weapons.
	Using seismic energy, natural energy, which is existing in real life permanently, and direct this energy to concrete places in concrete time To organize an earthquake, a natural earthquake.
	No nuclear connections.
	Yes, first researches which were done in this direction, they were connected with nuclear tests.
	And Soviet scientists found connections between nuclear tests and earthquakes.
	But later development was absolutely not connected with nuclear explosions and concentrated of natural use of seismic energy.
	Wow.
	Mercury 18.
	And so this was a different way to create earthquakes using some... Using special machines.
	To concentrate seismic energy on concrete places and organize natural earthquakes in these places.
	Do you know if this was actually done?
	Yes, it was done and let's say in the mid of 80s as a result of tests of these weapons.
	Not very big city, Spitak was destroyed in Caucasus, Trans-Caucasus region.
	Several villages were destroyed.
	And I heard that the last test was done in February of this year.
	February of this year?
	In Chechnya, when some people tried to organize an earthquake in the Chechen capital, the city of Grozny.
	But I don't think that this test was successful.
	Okay, I would like to take a couple of calls, and I need to think about what you just said to me.
	On my first time caller line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
	Where are you, please?
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Hi.
	My name is Milos.
	I'm calling from New York City.
	Yes, sir.
	It's a great show, and I have a question for Stanislav.
	We know that America and Russia are really in a good shape right now, but Mr. Luna never mentioned anything about China.
	China is their closest neighbor, hostile neighbor, and he never mentioned anything about China.
	I mean, what would be the reason for Russia to talk to USA?
	It is an interesting point, and he did some intelligence work in or near China, so we will ask him.
	Are you Russian yourself?
	No, I'm from, well, 15 years ago, it used to be Yugoslavia.
	Right now, I don't know what it is.
	Right now, nobody knows.
	Okay, Stan, China, it's a good point.
	China is not a large nuclear power, but a substantial nuclear power.
	and if there were a war between the united states of russia if russia
	attacked the u s what do you think china would do
	uh...
	uh... you know that uh... now uh... there are no some kind of ideological disputes
	between and russian federation and uh... china
	uh... which had placed in time of soviet union existence And actually, just now there are no any kind of very special problems in the relations between two countries.
	Because all these problems we resolved during last 10 years include border problems and relations between two countries just now are very good.
	And by my point of view, and not only mine but some specialists, relations between Russia and China are so good Uh, that it's possible to expect that in nearest time, uh, it would be some kind of military alliance between, uh, Russian Federation, uh, so-called democratic Russia and totalitarian China.
	Uh, military ally directed against, uh, United States and, uh, American friends and allies, uh, everywhere.
	Uh, so to propose that, uh, It could be some kind of real war between Russia and China.
	No, I don't think so.
	They're very close together.
	They do have already have a secret agreement for intelligence cooperation against United States and other Western countries.
	They do have integrating military machines, military industrial complexes.
	And if It could be happened, and military alliance would be in place.
	I think that China and Russia will stay together against American imperialism.
	and they couldn't do it here in america america american imperialism i'm here in
	america uh... many people think we have to governments that we have one secret government and one
	very governments
	Um...
	Do you believe that in Russia there are really two governments?
	One that we see with Boris Yeltsin sometimes and another government behind the scenes that is still holding all the power?
	No, I don't think so because this government which you can see President Yeltsin and around him Israel government corrupted, connected with criminals, but it's real government.
	What is a real government?
	A real corrupted government?
	Yes.
	And Yeltsin, by the way, a couple years ago, he need to recognize openly that just now Russia is a criminal state.
	And of course, He didn't mention about himself, but everybody includes himself in this criminal system.
	Okay, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Carmichael, California.
	Yes, sir.
	I just wanted to say Russia has something top of the world, and that's holy orthodoxy, and that Mother God is watching over the Orthodox people.
	Alright, well actually, okay, there is now a revival of religion in Russia.
	Yes.
	Is it a strong revival and is it some reason for hope that it will not come to a war between our two nations?
	Actually, your second proposal is most correct, because it's not so much revival of religion, but it's hope of people to find some kind of way for future.
	Yes.
	Because in their current life, they're suffering too much, and there is no any kind of ideology, nationwide ideology in Russia, and people return back to religion.
	Trying to find a way how to express themselves and found themselves in our world.
	And orthodoxy.
	Yes, of course, Russian orthodox religion is still very extremely popular between Russians, but not only this religion.
	There are a lot of Catholics, a lot of Jewish people, a lot of Islam people, Buddhists, so... I think many Americans would be surprised how many churches are in Russia.
	They are every place.
	Look at America and approximately the same situation as in Russia.
	That's true.
	What should America watch for?
	As we look at Russia and we watch the changes in Russia, what would be most dangerous?
	Very good question, but what America needs to do in this situation?
	Let's say America needs to know what is going on in foreign countries, let's say in Russia, in former Soviet Union, and to recognize the difference between promises and real situation and try to understand how to push some
	non-responsible people to fulfill their promises made officially and get a lot of money for
	this under these promises, billions of dollars and of course to prepare itself for the
	protection against possible danger and possible attacks.
	If you would like to stay on, we can do one more hour.
	Many people would like to talk to you.
	security system and uh... to concentrate
	system agrees
	for the protection of the biggest most important dangers uh... for this country
	stand out where at the top of the hour if you would like to stay on i we can do
	one more hour many people would like to talk to you that's up to you
	Okay.
	You want one more?
	Okay.
	Okay, good.
	Uh, stay right there.
	All right, well, I shouldn't have to say anything.
	The, uh... Russia's top-ranking military defector is my guest.
	Stanislav Lutov.
	His book... We'll tell you about his book when we get back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	Music playing.
	Here.
	Music playing.
	Music playing.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Good morning, everybody.
	You're listening to the highest-ranking military intelligence defector ever from the Soviet Union, Stanislav Lunov.
	And he'll be right back.
	We're going to lay heavily into the phones this hour if you have a question.
	I've got a couple of more, and then we're just going to Dive directly into the phone so don't move.
	Or...
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us.
	Absolutely not!
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials
	and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that
	government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way,
	and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
	And unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	for nineteen ninety eight uh... stand
	uh... welcome back again uh... russia has always been
	for good reason i believe a very paranoid government
	Peace.
	Very paranoid.
	And Russia now sees NATO expanding all around them.
	How do you think they are reacting to this in Moscow?
	Very negative.
	Of course they do not want this Expansion because NATO and the Western civilization, Western democracies are becoming more and more closer to Russia itself.
	That's right.
	And they don't like it at all.
	And they try to explain to Russian people that American imperialism didn't change its nature and until now, Israel street, internal, foreign street for Russia and for Russian people and America trying to destroy Russia the same way as America destroy former Soviet Union.
	Of course, this is propaganda and rhetorics.
	Somebody believe it, somebody not.
	I don't think that majority of Russians believe in these ideas.
	Because Russian people are not stupid.
	But the old Russian hardline communists, they surely believe it.
	You know, these hardline communists, they never believe, really, in ideas which were pronounced by themselves as some kind of absolute truth.
	And when they're talking about this NATO extension to the East and Southeast, they're using this as much more for propaganda than for a real estimation of possible danger to Russia.
	because you know that the Russian government closed its eyes on the missile transfer,
	missile technology transfer to Iran.
	And if Iran will develop its own missile weapons, the first target for this missile would be Southern Russia
	and it would be a real threat to Russia, not mystical threat from NATO expansion.
	I'm going to ask you again, what should we watch for?
	What would be very dangerous in Russia if we saw a civil war?
	Would that be a very dangerous time for us here if we saw the communists begin to take over and a coup d'etat with Yeltsin out and Zhirinovsky in or something like that?
	What would we watch for?
	Let's say that just now it's necessary to watch what's going on in Russia very attentively, because you know that Russian President Boris Yeltsin, he is not good health.
	Actually, he is sick, tired, and ill.
	And plus, he has a well-known very bad habit.
	Actually, he is drunk.
	And every other day, something could happen with him.
	But if it will happen with him now, it would be a constitutional crisis in Russia.
	And keep in mind that according to the Russian Constitution, he could be succeeded by his Prime Minister only.
	But in the current time, when he fired Uh, former Prime Minister, young person, Sergei Kurienko, two weeks ago, he tried to receive this parliament agreement for his old buddy, Mr. Chernomyrdin, but parliament rejected the candidacy of Chernomyrdin.
	And just now there is no constitutional successor for president.
	And if something happens to Yeltsin, nobody will replace him.
	And in time, without power, it's a very good time for very strange people to come to power.
	Yes.
	And that would be a very dangerous moment for the West.
	It would be an extremely dangerous moment.
	Again, I'm going to ask you this question.
	I know it's a very hard question.
	But if we began to see that happening over there, and it seemed like war was inevitable, eventually, wouldn't America be smart to use nuclear weapons first?
	For me, once more, it's very difficult to answer this question because I need to have Uh, information for the decision making process.
	But, uh, please trust me that in this in this country, you have enough smart people who plan American activity for any possible development worldwide.
	And in your Department of Defense, I think there are very good plans how to react for any possible changes
	in the russian federation include possibility of corey wall social arrest
	under and uh... all other possible development it was yeltsin were to die
	there is no constitutional succession uh...
	in place but uh... and uh... it would be the power would be up for grabs is that right
	but i think you have but uh... people who have been able to avoid
	that according to the russian constitution if something could come out with the head
	uh... his constitutional successor would be his former prime minister
	which was fired two weeks ago A guy who was fired by Yeltsin and destroyed politically.
	Actually, according to the Russian Constitution, he needs to be acting president.
	But nobody from the Russian government doesn't want to recognize this fact.
	And, of course, if you return back to two weeks ago, it was CBS News from Moscow that Yeltsin signed his letter for resignation.
	And of course, when somebody from Yeltsin's office found Article 117.5 in his own constitution, he explained it to Yeltsin that if something happened with him, he would be replaced by a person which was fired by Yeltsin.
	Of course, after this, Yeltsin immediately stepped back and said, no, no.
	No intentions, and I didn't sign nothing.
	Do you believe he did?
	Yes, in this case, everything looks like it almost happened.
	All right, back to these phone lines.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art and Stan.
	Hi, you're going to have to yell at us, sir.
	Yes, this is Wayne calling from the Great Northwest KGX Radio.
	Yes, sir.
	Wanting to ask Stan what knowledge he might have, if he has any inside knowledge of UFOs that perhaps the Russians have captured, and if there's been any trading of these type of items between Russia and the United States.
	All right, good question.
	Stan, in this country, we have many, many reports of objects that fly very quickly, very strangely, And people believe the government does not tell the truth about these things.
	Yes, and I remember Russian newspapers' publications during the last several weeks, and in all these publications, Russian specialists or people who pretend to be specialists, they are talking about that American military Establish contact with unknown flying objects, aliens, came to our Earth from another system, space system, and keeping them in a very secret camp in Nevada or somewhere else.
	No, it is Nevada.
	It is Nevada.
	And maybe this is even better than Star Wars, huh?
	Yes.
	So, absolutely the same situation in Russia.
	And same interest and attitude to unknown flying objects.
	Actually, in Russia there's a very, very big interest in the paranormal, isn't there?
	Yes.
	Because Russian people who are actually sick and tired from their normal life, they're looking for something else.
	For something interesting.
	To keep this interest, like, support for their life.
	Yes.
	before we are talk about learning more about the soviet union i think we'll
	learn more about how by the american government uh... both the open in the
	secret government and the corporate media which interlocks with the military industrial complex
	subjects us to this kind of disinformation propaganda
	uh... there's a book uh... one is called unreliable sources another is
	manufactured of consent by uh... noam chomsky he says we're probably in cold war
	uh... issues the most brainwashed people in the world because of the countries
	they sort of know they're getting the official life but here it comes down as
	the art bell program or as a sixty minutes yet and we don't see this propaganda and
	there are i think what is going on here is a bit of a classic case of what is
	a product is booked unreliable sources how
	so-called defectors have been used by the central intelligence agency to scare
	monger to create this kind of uh... about bony threats of whether
	it's uh... in central america or the soviet union
	to justify massive military budgets Former CIA agents like David McNeil... All right, I'll tell you what, sir.
	I think we... Hold it, hold it, hold it.
	We have defectors... Hold it, hold it.
	Stop, stop.
	Pause.
	Take a deep breath.
	We've got the thrust of your question.
	What you're saying to Stan is that you believe he is spreading propaganda and disinformation to create a threat, to feed the military-industrial complex, ensuring it continues to get its money to build weapons systems.
	Isn't that right?
	I'm saying that he's not the first.
	This has been going on for the last 15 years.
	I got that, but you're saying he is one of those.
	Well, there's going to be an automatic, automatic denial, so I expect... Well, allow him, allow him to make it.
	You make the accusation, let him make the denial, alright?
	I'd like to respond, yes.
	Alright, uh, Stan?
	Art, if I understand correctly, it's not a question, it's a statement.
	Well, yeah, it's accusation.
	He says... It's a statement or accusation, and I can tell to this gentleman, Let's say that if I would be connected with American special services and work for their interest, I would be really proud of it.
	But just now.
	I am providing you my own information and not connected with any kind of political games.
	Well, you know, even on Mission Impossible, even if the popular public realizes your discovery, you know, we will deny everything.
	But more than that, you know, you talk about NATO.
	i think most people in this country don't know that nato was formed by
	nearly seven years before the warsaw pact was formed it was a uh... at the
	warsaw pact was a defensive uh... response to that the every uh... a
	major build-up by the uh... by the uh... by the it was uh...
	of a weapon system was developed by the united states from the hydrogen bomb
	to a intercontinental missiles intercontinental bombers
	were far ahead of the uh... soviet union the only country that is
	demanded that the uh... first strike policy has been the united states
	The Soviets refused a first strike and tried to get the United States to accept that.
	All of this attempt to project what has been a policy, as you even let slip out, they should be paranoid because The United States, along with 14 other countries, invaded the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik Revolution, and after the Second World War, Lucius Clay and elements of the Joint Chiefs had exactly this policy of a first strike against the Soviet Union, this genocidal policy that you so cavalierly throw out there.
	It seems to me that there's never been a bombing All right, slow up for a second.
	Stan, he's saying that the United States is a very war-like nation.
	That we resort to military force all the time.
	use nuclear weapons are you know you know i don't know it's a little bit second
	uh... stand he's saying that the united states
	is a very warlike nation that we uh... we resort to military force
	uh... all the time to uh...
	uh... as we did uh... as as we did just recently uh... in the attack on the
	terrorist camp and that factory
	uh... that uh... or we'd as we did in uh...
	iraq that we really are the military aggressors not russia and that what
	we're getting from you is propaganda to prop up our military industrial complex
	uh... the first of all i think i need uh... with the with the name of the
	gentleman Thank you.
	I don't know.
	It doesn't matter.
	He doesn't have a name.
	He's gone now.
	No, no, no.
	If I'm talking to somebody, I need to say... Okay, Mr. X. We'll call him Mr. X. Okay, Mr. X. I need to know that just now... I'm not a specialist in America.
	I'm a specialist in Russia.
	And just now, the American military is...
	Uh, that was downside so much that it's not compared with American military, which existed six or seven years ago.
	Yes, but that's why Mr. X thinks you're here talking on the air now, uh, so that we can build it back up again.
	Did I tell somebody that you need to increase your military machine?
	No.
	Actually, you didn't.
	Actually, you didn't.
	That's right.
	Stan, we're at the bottom of the hour, so we've got to pause here.
	Hold on, we'll be right back.
	The highest-ranking U.S.
	assets.
	Once the highest-ranking U.S.
	SSR defector is now ours.
	He's here.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	Oh, I can't help love, I can't help love, I can't help love.
	I don't know what to do.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
	We are privileged to have with us Stanislaus Lunaf, who is the highest-ranking military defector ever from the Soviet Union.
	He's still alive.
	That says something.
	I wonder what.
	Anyway, we'll get back to him in a moment.
	Stay right where you are.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users,
	specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
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	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Now we take you back to the night of September 4th, 1998, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Back now to Stan's.
	Stan, here's a really good question for you.
	Do you think that the KGB is still in control Or is in control of the Mafia in Russia?
	Or the Mafia is in control of the KGB?
	First of all, I need to return back to the previous question.
	Not question, but statement of Mr. X. Because a lot of people asking me, how Soviet propaganda explain, what does it mean, American imperialism?
	Soviet propaganda explains America exactly like this gentleman told us in his statement.
	If it's possible, I would like to give him a very small piece of advice.
	If he will have a chance to find my book, please read this book and you will find a lot of answers for your questions.
	You will ask me next time about this one.
	You will already have all possible information by this reason.
	About this question.
	Connection between KGB and Mafia.
	I need to repeat myself what I already said in the book.
	That Russian Mafia is absolutely different from other types of Mafia.
	from Sicilian, Colombian, and other, because it includes top-level Communist Party officials, just now former Communist Party officials, highest-level government bureaucrats, law enforcement agencies, leaders, and top-level generals, military, many, many star generals, and direct criminals inside these organizations.
	Uh, so, uh, there is, uh, some kind of direct link between organized crime in Russia and, uh, Russian law enforcement agencies include former KGB.
	Uh, you know that, uh, KGB was, uh, uh, split for different agencies.
	Yes.
	In 19, uh, 91.
	After this, they were united in one agency.
	After this one small split for several agencies, just now there are five former KGB successors, and actually mafia has their own people in every of these state institutions, main KGB successors of our times.
	So, it is a great mixture, is what you're saying?
	Yes, and... It's all a mixture?
	Let's say that former KGB four-star generals are so closely connected with mafia that sometimes it's very difficult to find difference between mafia and KGB and let's say former KGB generals are just now very legitimate businessmen using their international connections and their people Recruited by KGB intelligence officers in different countries.
	Organized some kind of drug trafficking from Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia to Northern America through former Soviet Central Asia Republics, Eastern Europe, and Latin American countries.
	So everything is connected and with very small difference We have all seen many movies and many examples of Sicilian and Italian Mafia.
	It is my understanding the Russian Mafia is far more brutal.
	Is that true?
	And it's estimation of people who are inside Sicilian and Colombian Mafia, because they consider themselves some kind of Yes, sir.
	I wanted to touch for a moment on the weather manipulation and the harp dealing.
	You're on the air with Stan and Art.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Hesher from Belfair, Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	I wanted to touch for a moment on the weather manipulation and the HAARP dealie.
	I guess it was when I was surfing one night off of a link off of your site,
	and I had previously read the Underground Bases and Tunnels book by Richard Sautter.
	Yes.
	And it kind of sparked some ideas with me, and I had heard something about America in the late 1970s that they had shipped a 40-ton electromagnet over to Russia that they were installing in a facility that was possibly linked with HAARP, and it was able to produce An electromagnetic field that was like 300,000 times more powerful than the gravity field on Earth?
	Yes, well, your question is a very good one with regard to electromagnetic weapons, and the Russians were and are now working on electromagnetic weapons.
	Are they not, Stan?
	You are right, because these weapons are some kind of weapons of future.
	And the Soviet scientists, and after them Russian scientists, they spend a lot of time and resources trying to find a way how to use electromagnetic weapons against human being in possible war.
	And not only this, because you already said, mentioned about laser weapons, and you know what happened about one year ago when American pilots were blinded by a Russian so-called scientific ship, which snaked around American nuclear submarines in the Pacific.
	And you know this is about seismic weapons and very low frequency radio waves weapons, electromagnetic weapons, so it's very many new types of weapons.
	Now, Russia is having a very hard time financially.
	They can barely keep their space station in orbit.
	Do they manage to come up with black budget money to continue these projects today?
	And this is one of the paradoxes of current Russian life.
	Because in time of very deep multi-site crisis, Russian government Find money for development of Russian military industrial complex.
	And in time when this government doesn't pay any serious attention over conventional forces in Russia, they still keeping very close control over strategic weapons development.
	And actually Russian military industrial complex just now is leading in the world in the new york issue of the future and uh... development
	or new types uh... or weapons and traditional with destruction weapons but
	uh... this is better everything to the pressure
	it was it was always my understanding stand that uh... russian strategic nuclear weapons russian
	submarines all were under very tight
	central control in moscow
	and that they should really still are today under very tight
	central control What is so worrisome is that the central control is not very stable.
	Good point.
	Yes, but in time when this control is not so stable by itself or inside itself, they are keeping very strong control over strategic armed forces because they know
	that uh... this is only one
	uh... that russian government can you for the money extortion from the west
	uh... our president of course was just uh...
	in moscow and meeting with boris yeltsin
	and it seems like they reached some kind of arms agreement which i'm sure you believe the russian government uh...
	will uh... make promises about but never follow through on
	I see that meeting as completely useless.
	Do you?
	For me, this summit was strange from the beginning.
	Yes.
	I understand that the American administration tried to use this summit for especially to have some kind of agreement of Russian non-participation in proliferation of mass destruction weapons, in Russian participation in Liquidating of international conflicts and for fighting against international terrorism.
	Assumption kills.
	So it looks like America try to use once more direct meeting with Russian President Boris Yeltsin.
	Asking Russia to carry not so dangerous policy which is carrying now by Russian government.
	But from the beginning, for me, it was very strange that this meeting would be with a person who is absolutely unresponsible, giving a lot of promises, but never fulfill those promises.
	So it was fruitless from the beginning.
	And the result of this summit, I never saw the same summit which didn't have any practical results.
	May I ask you this?
	During the time before you defected to this country, were you, for a period of time, a double agent?
	What does it mean?
	It means working for the Soviet Union and the United States.
	No.
	Never?
	No.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Art and Stan.
	Hi Art and hi Stan.
	Joe from Boston.
	Hi Joe.
	I just want to say before I ask the question, I met a guest of yours and he said say hi to you.
	I don't know whether you had him on a long time ago.
	Who would that be?
	Oh, Showman, Jack Showman, American Computer Products.
	Oh, yes, of course.
	He said say hi.
	Okay, Stan, I have a couple questions for you.
	I'm a little surprised at you.
	First of all, I can't see, and we have the missile problem here.
	The Russians, Jeff Nyquist was on our show.
	And he believes, and I do too, that the military in Russia is armed to the hilt.
	Our military is cut back.
	So does Mr. Scullion.
	He's explained theoretically how a war could happen.
	And this Y2K problem could be the start of the Russians' war, because I know Khrushchev says, we're going to bury you.
	We have Russian soldiers.
	We have cut our military in half.
	So I'd like you to address these problems.
	What is your specific question?
	My question is, are the Russian missiles armed and pointed at America?
	And when Y2K happens, is there a good chance that the Russians will start a war?
	That's a perfect question.
	Alright, alright.
	The Y2K thing is a computer problem.
	There are many, many people who are worried about the accidental beginning of a war.
	And it is worth worrying about.
	Do you know about this Y2K big computer problem?
	Yes, of course.
	Well, the Russians... But just ask me about Russian missiles.
	Are they directed against the United States?
	That's right.
	Officially, they are not directed during last, I think, six years.
	But this is for general public.
	but for military professionals it's well known that if a computer of a missile warhead had
	a target, sometimes, it doesn't matter when, it goes inside this computer, to reprogram
	this computer and to restore the same target, it's necessary to spend only one part of a
	second. So they could not be directed now, or maybe when we spoke they could be redirected
	to different targets many, many times.
	Would it be fair to say that the Cold War is still going on?
	Official Cold War, in the real sense of this word, finished a long time ago, and not because of the Russian Federation government, but because of Last and first Soviet President, Mikhail Gorbachev.
	But, unofficially, this war is still in place.
	And it's going on by much more dangerous ways, and underground, in shadow, because all parts which are participating in this war are using their intelligence machines, counterintelligence apparatus, And the Russian side, using its organized crime connections, trying to restore its power and to find a way for future dominance in the world.
	Ben, I was in the American Air Force, and when the Cold War was... I was in there during the Vietnam War, during the Cold War.
	Would you say that when we were in the military, it was safer then That it is now.
	Or is it more dangerous now?
	Art, I think that just now is much more dangerous because you remember these times when you was in the Air Force.
	It was a confrontation of two military blocks, two powers.
	Yes.
	And every side knew exactly that if one side will make a step, another side will make immediately counter step.
	And both sides cannot afford to broke this balance of powers.
	But just now, when in the Kremlin, there are very unresponsible people.
	It's possible to expect that every other day in the Russian Federation has happened something really dangerous.
	And if it's happened, somebody unknown will come to power and we will have real danger.
	So, what then, tell me, Stan, what would you tell the American people?
	What would you like to tell the American people?
	In your book, now, on the radio, what would you like to tell the American people?
	Thank you for this opportunity.
	First of all, I would like to ask American people, do not believe very old Soviet propaganda.
	Unfortunately, I understand Uh, that until now, this propaganda is still effective and influence, uh, over some, uh, people in America.
	And, uh, for this country, I think it's necessary to know, uh, what danger is before this country and, uh, what is the most dangerous trend which could affect American way of life.
	And of course, to try to do something to protect America.
	Because if something happens with America, it will happen with a fortress of democracy in the world.
	And America needs to pay attention to their national security.
	I don't call you guys to spend much more money, to recruit much more soldiers, or to increase the build-up of your military machine.
	No.
	I'd like to ask you guys to improve your national security.
	In this country you have very powerful intelligence and counterintelligence community.
	And these people, they are real professionals.
	They actually, they sacrifice their life trying to protect America from all possible threats.
	But they do not have enough people Money and possibilities to protect everything in this country.
	All right, Stan.
	It has been a wonderful interview.
	Thank you for staying up so late.
	I know you're on the East Coast.
	It's almost 5 o'clock, so... My friend, thank you.
	Thank you very much, Ed.
	Good night.
	Good night and looking forward to see you once more.
	You bet.
	Okay, that's it.
	We're done for this week.
	Listen, all of you have a good holiday weekend.
	And don't forget Sunday.
	It's all about the Mayan calendar.
	For now, from the high desert, where it's kind of damp.
	Night all.

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