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Sept. 4, 1998 - Art Bell

02:53:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Stanislav Lunev - Russian Defector

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01:00:55

stanislav lunev

01:07:13

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring coast to coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a high desert in the great American Southwest.
		Good evening, sir.
		Good morning, Mr. Casey, maybe, and welcome to another edition of the largest literally the fucking radio channel stretching conventionally from the east west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. virtual islands into South America, north all the way to the pole, worldwide on the internet courtesy of broadcast.
		Thank you broadcast.com.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Well, next hour, we are going to endeavor to do something rather interesting.
		Now, you're going to have to bear with us because what we have for you is Russia's highest-ranking military defector.
		The highest-ranking military defector ever to defect.
		And he wrote a book called Through the Eyes of the Enemy, Stanislav Lunov, and he said, quote, Russian military intelligence does everything it can to prepare for a war that it considers inevitable.
		Let me be very clear about this.
		The GRU, Russian military intelligence, is still recruiting agents, still preparing for war with the United States as we approach the supposedly peaceful post-Cold War millennium.
		End quote.
		The peaceful post-Cold War millennium isn't so peaceful in Russia.
		Alexander Levin says Russia is close to catastrophe.
		They're talking about a civil war, about Yeltsin pushing the country toward a civil war.
		The Duma has put off the vote on Chernimyrdin.
		Maybe there will be a compromise.
		Maybe not.
		It seems not like not to me.
		294 to 51 was the last vote to not approve Yeltsin's choice.
		Last time Yeltsin got three no's in a row, he had to shell the parliament building.
		You remember that?
		So that's what they're in the middle of over there right now.
		And of course, the country is melting down financially.
		So we'll talk to Stanislav next hour, if we can get him.
		They continue to look at what occurred with the Swiss Air Flight 111 tragedy.
		And the more I hear about this, the more I think I have my guess about what happened.
unidentified		It's just a guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was confirmed for me earlier that they were actually dumping fuel as they were in a spiral, a circle, coming down from 37,000 feet.
		They're actually dumping fuel.
		And when you dump fuel, it becomes a mist.
		And I don't know how tight their turn was or their spiral down was.
		But one has to imagine that what might have happened is that the aircraft engine that I think was on fire, or at least whatever fire there was, ignited the mist of fuel that they were spiraling down through.
		Kind of like a fuel air bomb.
		And that's my guess.
		I also base it on the fact that all they have found are little tiny pieces.
		Biggest piece they've even found so far is like a car hood or something.
		Something about that size.
		I think you get that kind of a breakup, and the breakup was incredible.
		Just by hitting the water.
		So there was an explosion at what altitude, I don't know.
		Some think the plane sheared off part of a lighthouse.
		Maybe it was part of a plane that sheared off part of a lighthouse.
		Who knows?
		Anyway, they're still looking.
		When Alan Greenspan speaks, people listen.
		And he said the central bankers are growing more concerned about the impact of the global financial crisis on the U.S. economy.
		He said, this is really strange for Greenspan.
		He said they're just as likely to vote to cut interest rates as to raise them.
		He said, now listen carefully here.
		This is Greenspan, quote, it's just not credible that the United States can remain an oasis of prosperity, unaffected by a world that is experiencing greatly increased stress, end quote.
		That's Greenspan.
		President Clinton, this is my big news on Monica Lewinsky, said, I'm sorry.
		That's it.
unidentified		He said he was sorry.
unidentified		So that's the Lewinsky news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here in Nevada at Nellis, about 12 aboard died in the crash of two U.S. Air Force helicopters early Friday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were doing night work and probably using night vision equipment.
unidentified		There's a good chance that could be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A 16-year-old has sent me what I think may be an accurate copy of the third secret of Fatima.
		I don't know.
		Don't hold me to that.
		I said may be.
		And I'm having it posted.
		Keith is about to post it.
		I would appreciate your comments on this.
		I've been on a search for the Third Secret of Fatima for a long time now, as you well know.
		And I've had many versions.
		many copies of, I don't know, three or four versions that are circulating, and I think this one.
		Well, you tell me, it'd be up on the website.
unidentified		Do you remember the STEM people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody called the other night and said this guy went in for a cat scan of his brain.
		They took it, and there was no brain in there, and all he had was a STEM?
		Comes this.
		Caramel Valley.
		The president reported her neighbors are hydros.
		That's H-Y-D-R-O-S hydros.
		People who have fish brains instead of human brains, they are telepathically communicating with the garbage man and causing damage to her property.
		Turned over to Adult Protection Services.
		Hydros.
		She claimed her neighbors were fish brain people.
		And that they had been telepathically communicating with a garbage guy.
		There is, you know me, I can't resist a cat story.
		And this is a cat story and a California story.
		California is a wonderful place, but, boy, I'll tell you, it's not the place it used to be.
		Talk about regulation and regulation and taxation and regulation and more regulation.
		That's California today.
		Art, for your amusement and comments, please note, I had not been listening to your show.
		Had I not, the following would not have occurred as I would have been peacefully asleep and blissfully unaware of the situation.
		Sunday, August 15th, 2 o'clock in the morning, I'm up listening to your show.
		Suddenly, a disturbing noise began at my living room.
		It was the distinct noise of my furniture being destroyed by one of my pampered housecats.
		I rushed to the scene, only to find Missy, that's in quotes, hard at work at the back of a good chair.
		So I immediately took preventative measures and got a clipper and snipped the offending front claws.
		This, of course, provoked countermeasures.
		And yes, my cat managed to sink her aged and broken half fangs into the joint of my middle finger.
		It bled a little bit, but soon felt fine.
		The following day, Sunday, I spent several hours gardening and the wound got dirt in it.
		By Monday, all swollen up.
		Tuesday, I decided I'd better go to the doctor, secure antibiotics, which I did.
		I had to fill out a form, though, which asked whose animal was it and was it vaccinated, and the circumstances of how the bite occurred.
		I wrote that I'd been clipping her claws in response to her sharpening them on the furniture, checked the box marked vaccinated, said that she was my indoor house cat.
		Upon reading the form, the doctor laughed, gave me a tetana shot, antibiotics, sent me on my way home.
		All was improving until the following Sunday morning at about 10.30 a.m. arrives a Santa Cruz County Animal Control Officer showing up at the front door.
		Since I had again been kept up by your show the previous night, I hadn't gotten dressed yet, didn't know who it was, so I didn't answer the door.
		When my fiancé returned from coffee, he brought in a note demanding that we call the County Animal Control Office, which we did.
		They demanded that our cat be quarantined for 10 days following the bite.
		Seven days had already passed, and that we could bring her on down on the 10th day for inspection, or that we allow an officer to come and inspect her on that very day.
		Well, since we have six cats and the county only allows two per house, we decided to bring her in.
		They intended to charge us $25 for this pleasure.
		However, they did waive the fee, which even if it had been charged, could not have paid for the man-hour costs to send an officer out on a Saturday morning.
		I think the Animal Control Office completely overreacted to a very normal reaction of a very normal cat.
		So I find myself asking, who's more competent?
		The cat with a brain the size of a small apricot?
		Or the Santa Cruz County Animal Control Office?
		How would you answer that?
		The moral of the story is, if you come to California and your cat bites you, tell the doctor you bit yourself, then had your cat suck the wound.
		That way, you'd get appropriate antibiotics without the hassle.
		have a nice night and don't look at the cats bites uh...
		uh...
		And I have a few more goodies for you yet this evening.
unidentified		Screams
		Coast at Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and screen previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bells, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insiders.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disagree.
		Music All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're about to go to the lines here, open lines in the first hour tonight, and then later on as well.
		These are a few things that have been actually found to be written on people's tombstones.
		In a New Mexico cemetery, here lies Johnny Yeast.
		Pardon me for not rising.
		Real.
		In a Silver City, Nevada cemetery.
		Here in my state.
		The West, here lies Butch.
		We planted him raw.
		He was quick on the trigger, but slow on the draw.
		A widow in Vermont wrote upon her husband's new stone, Sacred to the memory of my husband, John Barnes, who died January 3rd, 1803, his homely young widow, age 23, has many qualifications of a good wife and yearns to be comforted.
		and then finally the simplest is always the best definitely found in a georgia cemetery simply East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Is this alright?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		I just did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
unidentified		I've been trying to get a hold of you for months.
unidentified		Okay, have you ever done a show on the Bermuda Triangle?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
unidentified		Oh, sure?
unidentified		Lately?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not lately, no.
		Not lately.
		As a matter of fact, now that you mention it, I haven't really heard of anything much happening in the Bermuda Triangle lately, have you?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know why I think that is?
unidentified		Why is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because I think it has moved.
unidentified		It's moved?
		Oh, this is Diane from Minneapolis, by the way.
		I'm a first-time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		It's moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did it move to?
		I don't know.
		But I'm really serious when I say that.
		I think there are areas of the Earth that are anomalous.
		Very anomalous.
		And that was one of them.
unidentified		Did you know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe that's why we're not hearing about it anymore.
		I guess you could suggest it was either one, because the Bermuda Triangle moved or people finally decided to begin avoiding it altogether.
		Beats me.
unidentified		And I've got another question.
unidentified		Have you ever read the book The Messengers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes, have you ever had?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed the author of The Messengers.
unidentified		Oh, did you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		I sure did.
		Nick, some time ago.
		Nick Bonnick.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is John from Colorado Springs, Colorado.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colorado Springs, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm coming out your way.
unidentified		Oh, I know you are.
unidentified		Did you get a paperback book from me a couple months ago, Alternative 3?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I just want to know if you got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I got it.
		Thank you.
		Great, great.
unidentified		Well, I'll try to get up to Denver and see you here in about two weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		September 19th.
unidentified		September 19th.
		Yep.
		Okay, well, I'm glad you got the book, and I'd like to see you do a show on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		It's pretty much Conspiratorial Central Alternative 3, the various alternatives that have been published.
		Conspiratorial stuff.
		I'm going to check at the half-hour mark, but I think Keith might have this third secret Fatima version up.
		Came from a 16-year-old boy, interestingly.
		Very interested in your opinion.
		It is very graphic and specific.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, going twice, gone.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Ralph from Salem, Oregon.
		Okay.
		I heard a comment on Dr. Dina Dill Hall's program, which is 54 years here in Salem, concerning the use of Viagra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This better not be a joke.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't allow Viagra jokes on here.
unidentified		And he relates results of some studies that show that at least part of the side effects from Viagra which can result in health and cardiac patients may be from the fact that it acts as the facilitator.
unidentified		In other words, patients or individuals with heart disease that would normally be having That's a no-brainer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look, anything that would cause you to do something that you wouldn't do normally you may be taking your chances.
		I mean, you're taking your chan.
		Of course, you take your chances with everything, with a lot of things in life, when you cross the street.
		It's my attitude about flying.
		I flew to Europe very shortly after Flight 800 went down.
		I'm going to be flying to Africa next month.
		And I'm going to do that not too far down the line after Swiss Air 111.
		But you've got to get kind of an attitude about it, which I have, and that is, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen, you know?
		And there's nothing you can do about that.
		And it could as easily occur to you walking across the street, tripping in the bathtub, cracking your skull open.
		There are lots of ways to die and lots of ways to live.
		If you follow me.
		And as long as you're alive, you might as well go ahead and live life and not worry about losing it all the time.
		Anyway, that's the secret of how I get through all the things I get through that I hear about on this program, so you might want to know.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Be sure listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		Right back to where we started going Do you remember that day When you first came my way you I said no one could take your place And if you get hurt, if you get hurt
		By the little things I say, I can put that down.
		You can die, you can die, I can't die on your mind.
		Ooh, see that girl, watch that scene, begin the dancing queen.
		Friday night and the nights alone, looking out for a place to go.
		We're the same about music, getting in between, you come to live for a king.
		We're the same about music, getting in between, you come to live for a king.
		Anybody could be that music.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to be here on a Friday night, Saturday morning as a holiday weekend begins for everybody.
unidentified		What are you going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably have a barbecue or something.
		Isn't that what most people do on these three-day holidays?
		Barbecue?
unidentified		Barbecue?
		Groans
		Coast at Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		when you look at what's going on around this planet it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden You know, I wonder how people, how so many of you in so many parts of the country, live with the humidity that you live with.
		I know that may sound strange.
		I think we adapt.
		We do adapt as human beings to our environment.
		And I live in the desert.
		I'm used to in the summer, single-digit humidity.
		Sometimes 10 or 11% if it's a bad day.
		But the last couple of days, we've had the remnants of some sort of storm or another that was generated off Mexico, and it's been just cloudy and raining.
unidentified		And raining and raining and raining.
		And it makes me feel awful.
		Even I notice my paper is all limp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My paper is limp, you know, it's heavy with humidity.
		It's hard for me to imagine Living in an area where there is humidity again.
		But I'm sure that when many of you would come out and visit here in the desert, you would go, Oh my God, how does anybody live out here?
		My sinuses are all dried up.
		And that is the way you feel when you first come to the desert.
		But for me, it's the exact opposite.
		So to some degree, we absolutely do adapt, don't we?
		East of the Rockies, you're on there.
unidentified		Hi.
		All right.
		This is Red in Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Red in Ohio.
		That's not a political statement.
		That's your name.
		No.
unidentified		I have a Bermuda Triangle incident that you might find interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old is it?
unidentified		Hang on a second and let me get the book.
unidentified		Just a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, you're supposed to be prepared when you're calling.
		He's walking into it.
		Don't trip over anything.
		He's obviously having to walk away somewhere.
unidentified		Okay, I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're supposed to keep it next to the phone.
unidentified		Right, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right.
unidentified		I had it with some Xerox copies of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what is the name of the book?
unidentified		The name of the book is The Antilles Incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how, when was it published?
unidentified		November 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		97.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About an incident that occurred when?
unidentified		Let me see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you read the book?
unidentified		Yes, I've read the book.
unidentified		And the incident occurred in 1988.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, see, that's a while ago.
unidentified		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ten years ago now.
unidentified		Well, according to the book, it involves a destroyer escort which encountered a submarine UFO.
unidentified		It had a firefight with the UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A submarine UFO.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean a submarine UFO?
unidentified		According to the book, they had instructions to keep land and sea and air in view in their patrol incident because apparently command knew there was a UFO in the area and they encountered it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're enemy submarines.
		So I'm trying to grasp what you're saying here.
		Are you talking about like the classical in-the-air alien UFO, only underwater?
unidentified		It was both underwater and in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I actually have heard of an incident like this from a few callers, believe it or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It came up out of the water.
unidentified		Right, in the Antilles area.
		They had an encounter with it that caused the ship's engines to go offline.
		Yep, I've heard of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would actually like to read that book, and I'd love to interview the author.
unidentified		And three of the crewmen were kidnapped.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I've heard about this.
		Who wrote the book?
unidentified		It's a man called Donald R. Todd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Donald R. Todd.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		T-O-D-D?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll see if I can find the book, thank you, and locate the author.
		It's always a job.
		You know, it's such a job trying to get phone numbers of people that you want to have as guests.
		It really is a job.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Caller.
unidentified		This is Robert, San Joaquin Valley, California, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		How are you this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just spiffy.
unidentified		I've got a few things that are important, but I wanted to ask you, when are you leaving for Africa?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's October 3rd through the 10th, just a week.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One week.
unidentified		Well, I always sort of hold my breath whenever you go, wanting you to get back safely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's well that you do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No matter when I leave, things happen.
unidentified		Believe me, I pray for you when you do go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there could be an October surprise.
unidentified		Yeah, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if it's going to come, you know it's coming between the 3rd and the 10th.
unidentified		I wanted to say something about our Bell After Dark newsletter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, for everyone that listens to your show, if they don't subscribe to it, I'm telling you, to me, it's like the National Geographic.
		You keep those there.
		Each one is a keepsake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a National Geographic of the Unusual.
unidentified		It is.
		And I mean, I wouldn't even loan one out to my best friend, fearful that I wouldn't get it back.
		I mean, it really adds to the show and you're able to refer back to those issues.
		I mean, I highly recommend to people that have not subscribed that it really is important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to think you're a plant.
unidentified		Well, it is great, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		But, okay, I wanted to mention a few nights ago on one of the major networks on TV, they had such an unusual show about automobiles, vehicles turning against the owners.
unidentified		Did you see that or hear about it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When cars attack.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't see it, and I'm killing myself for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there was one thing I really wanted to see, and I missed it.
unidentified		That is the producers, if you can get them on your show, because I saw, it really was eerie when we were looking at the tape from a security camera at a Dillard's department store.
		We were looking out into the yard where all of the cars were parked, and there were four automobiles.
		No one was in the automobile.
		Simultaneously, they moved to another place.
		I mean, it was really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
unidentified		You've got to see that.
unidentified		Oh, I'm doing it again, aren't I?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, come on now.
		We got into a discussion based on this last night about what would be the most difficult car to kill, you know, just in case they did come alive and come after us.
		And some guy sent me facts and said, well, if there is going to be a war, then your son should be a general because he sure did slay that metro.
		All right, Robert, thank you.
		Which I thought was rather cruel.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Okay.
		Hi, this is Kevin from Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Kevin.
unidentified		Hey, I'm supposed to say hi from the people on Downnet IRC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Downnet IRC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Downet Relay Chat, yeah.
unidentified		Right.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'll.
unidentified		So anyway, I was looking at the website and I'm looking at your message from Fatima or whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And it's really, really lame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so, huh?
unidentified		I do.
unidentified		I think that it's just about as lame and I mean, anyone can make up a prediction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, it's true.
		It's true.
		It's absolutely true.
		However, I've had about, oh, I don't know, two or three or four versions of it up now, and you can't ignore the possibility that one of them is real.
unidentified		Well, but you can't ignore the possibility that anything is real.
		For all I know, there could be magic leprechauns inside my radio station right now.
		So anything could be real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		Anything could be real.
		We know only one thing for sure.
		There was a third secret of Taramah, so terrible that they wouldn't, the popes Would not allow it out and still have not.
unidentified		Okay, right.
		I'm not saying that it's not the secret.
		I think that as a prediction, it's really meaningless.
		The people that are going to believe it are already praying, and the people that don't aren't praying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess that's fair.
		Yet another tombstone.
		I've got a tombstone thing here.
		And where is it here?
unidentified		Is that the atheist one, all dressed up and up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
unidentified		Yeah, I've heard that joke before.
		That's really funny.
		But, I mean, it's quite true.
		It illustrates the point that those of us that don't believe this stuff already aren't going to be convinced by it, and those that do may or may not be convinced.
		I think this is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So tell me on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like you're not praying then, huh?
unidentified		No, I'm an atheist.
unidentified		Actually, the first program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're an atheist.
unidentified		The first program I listened to was one of the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the atheist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you really, truly believe in absolutely no God.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that when we die, it lights out as much as it was before you were alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It ceased to exist.
unidentified		I don't necessarily think that it lights out as much as that I don't think that there's proof for anything actually happening.
unidentified		I mean, it could be the whole Christian idea, but I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you don't know?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's not quite the same as to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I guess you can say that, but I mean, there are so many people who believe that there is something afterlife that if you were...
unidentified		17.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so easy to be an atheist when you're 17.
unidentified		Oh, don't pull that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm pulling it.
		I'm pulling it because you have this long life ahead.
		Now, you honestly don't think when you get older, there's a possibility that as you face your own mortality, you'll consider the possibility that there's more and you'll err on the side of caution at least.
unidentified		Well, but caution, I mean, which God do I then choose?
		Do I choose the Christian idea?
		Do I choose the Islam idea?
		Which one do I choose?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could choose to believe that there is a Creator without a specific name.
unidentified		Well, that's definitely possible.
		I mean, to say that I absolutely won't believe that to me is just as insane as the insanity that I claim for Christians.
		To absolutely claim that there is no Creator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is at least consistent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will give you that.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
unidentified		Goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, goodbye.
		And I can see now why you're not praying and why you go to the third secret.
		So we'll have to get some more opinion.
		I thought it was pretty good.
		It came from a 16-year-old boy in Las Vegas.
		Las Vegas.
		I don't know how he got his hands on it.
		Maybe something, maybe nothing.
		Atheists.
		Really interesting.
		Here lies so-and-so all dressed up and nowhere to go.
		An atheist.
		Tombstone.
		First time caller line, you're on there.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio on.
unidentified		It's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Lansdale, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lansdale, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Is this a screen or am I on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have a call screener.
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		Okay, I'm listening to WPHT 1210 a.m. here in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Philadelphia, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Art, a pleasure is all I could say.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've got to tell you, the way I found out about your station was through a book, a book called Alien Encounters written by Chuck Milsler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Missler.
unidentified		Missler, correct?
unidentified		And Mark Eastman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Mark Eastman, yes, I've had them both on the show once.
unidentified		Oh, I wish I had seen that or heard that.
unidentified		I'm a bit nervous here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They wrote about me in their book?
unidentified		Yes, in fact, there's a chapter, chapter 8, called The Quickening.
		And it's a reference to you.
		And then there is, it says, The quickening in 1995, Art Bell, late-night radio talk show host, coined a term to describe the accelerating pace of events in the last few years.
		He called it the quickening.
		And it goes on, and I'm not going to read it all, but toward the end it says, Bell is careful not to interpret the signs that he sees.
		He well recognizes the wide variety of religious and scientific and philosophical options among his listeners and is a master at balancing the tight rope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's well said, and that's exactly correct.
		I'm a talk show host.
		I'm not a prophet.
		I interview prophets.
		I'm not a seer.
		I interview seers and all that genre of folk.
		People who have had NDEs, you name it, I do it.
unidentified		From what I've heard the last few months that I've been listening to you, yes, I do.
		But if you have an opportunity, I suggest you get the book, Alien Encounters.
		It's not, the title isn't really great.
		It's more into the quickening phenomena.
		And I believe a lot of your callers and a lot of the quickening phenomena, and I've been researching it for about two years, reading books, yay, thick, on Egyptians and the whole antiquity of man.
		And for me, I am a born-again Christian, and this book definitely brought it together for me.
		These gentlemen, Chuck Mills Meisler and Mark Eastman, they have many tapes out that from scientific point of views back up everything they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
		Well, thanks for the call.
		And it's interesting to know there's a chapter in there about the quickening.
		In 1995, I saw all of this as clearly as can be, and that's why I wrote that book.
		Now, so much of what's in that book, we are dead smack in the middle of.
		And it didn't take very long, did it?
		A lot of what I wrote about in 1995 was not going on in 95.
		But I said it was about to be, and it is now.
		And I repeat, I am not a prophet.
		All I did was look at what was going on around me because I had to every day to do my job as a talk show host.
		And I said, holy moly.
		There really is something going on here, for lack of a better phrase.
		The quickening is what I used.
		And it is an accurate phrase to describe what I think is going on.
		And that is, events are speeding up, events are spiraling up, ratcheting up very quickly.
		Human events are becoming more frantic at a rather exponential rate.
		And we are headed toward an event.
		And by the way, that will be part of what we cover.
		Sunday on Dreamland is coming Sunday on Dreamland.
		It's all about the Mayan calendar.
		You're not going to want to miss it.
		The Mayan calendar ends in 2012.
		In 2012.
		And I have an author who says he has figured out what it all means.
		And Sunday it will unfold before you.
		And we talked a little bit about this during that program, actually quite a bit.
		Maybe that'll give you a little hint of what's to come.
		So if you've never quite exactly understood the Mayan calendar, what it meant, why it abruptly ends, and so forth and so on, you're not going to want to miss Dreamland on Sunday.
		All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, and if things work out, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, we're going to be speaking with Stanislav Lunov, who wrote through the eyes of the enemy.
		He is Russia's highest-ranking military defector.
		With the news about Russia today, it should be an interesting interview.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		We'll be right back.
		That worked.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody, across this great land and well beyond.
		Tonight is going to be an interesting evening for a little while here.
		I have on the phone Russia's highest-ranking military defector ever.
		And he warns of threats to U.S. national security.
		He says Russia is preparing for inevitable war against America.
		Inevitable war, I said.
		Wrote a book that you can get, we'll tell you how, I guess, through the eyes of the enemy.
		He is Stanislav Lunov.
		And I'll have to see if I'm pronouncing his name correctly.
		He is obviously Russian.
		He has an accent, and we're going to try to make it through this because it's very important that we hear what he has to say.
		So I've probably got some questions for him that he has not been asked before.
		We'll find out.
		But I'm really curious about a lot of things.
		I'm curious about what it takes to mentally prepare yourself for defection from one country to another, period.
		So he'll be up next.
unidentified		stand us off 50%.
		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		The Coastal Service All right, this really should be interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From, I think, the heart of what used to be the enemy, somewhere around Washington, D.C. or something, Stanislaw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan, can we call you Stan?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually, Stan?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		In America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I know.
		I mean, where in America?
		East Coast.
		Washington, D.C. Uh, no.
		No.
		All right.
		Um Stan, when let's see.
		How long did you live in Russia altogether?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		In Russia?
unidentified		Yep.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		All my life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Very old.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		52.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, I'm 52 and I'm 53, Stan.
		I'm 53.
		So what do you mean very old?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		52?
		After 50, usually it's very old.
		You know my favorite joke.
		If after 50 years old somebody wakes up morning and doesn't have any pain, it means you are already dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're probably right.
		So you lived all your life in Russia.
		What part of Russia were you born in?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		In Leningrad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Leningrad?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Just now is St. Petersburg, but it's one of paradoxes from Russian life because one of the largest Russian military districts located around St. Petersburg has absolutely the same name as before, Leningrad Military District.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was in St. Petersburg not long ago.
		Beautiful, beautiful city.
		And a little scary for me, too, I thought.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Well, I could explain all of that.
		It was scary for me because I felt like I was being watched all the time.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		When it happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was a couple of years ago, just a couple of years ago.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Ah, a couple of years ago, yes.
		So it means that nothing changed.
		And Russian security services still following Kerry Forena the same way it was done in the former Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we took a cruise to Russia, and I went to Moscow even.
		I got to eat lunch in the Kremlin.
		And one of the people that was on our cruise was a young blind man.
		You know, he couldn't see.
		And he had a video recorder with him, a camcorder, a camera, and he was using it only to record sounds that he could take home with him.
		And unfortunately, he recorded some sounds near a factory.
		And this was in Moscow.
		And people were showing ID, some kind of ID when they went into the factory.
		And they arrested him.
		They arrested him.
		And he almost missed the ship because they were questioning him and his mother.
		And they were going to put them both in jail.
		Anyway, so, you know, yeah, things have changed, but things have also not changed.
unidentified		Isn't that true?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's very little which was changed.
		And this example you provided is this young man.
		And I am sorry about this once, but actually this is hospitality Russian style.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hospitality Russian style.
		So early in your life, you were coming up just like I was, we're about the same age, during the Cold War.
		The long Cold War.
		You and I, I was on this side, you were over there, both of us living through the Cold War, only you were in the Soviet military, right?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What rank were you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you do in the Soviet military?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Last military rank, colonel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A colonel.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why, but in American military people prefer to say full colonel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A full colonel?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because colonel is colonel, lieutenant colonel is lieutenant colonel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your job as a full colonel in the Soviet military?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Last 20 years of my military service, I was inside Soviet Strategic Military Intelligence Agency.
		This is JAU or Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Federation General Staff.
		This is spy agency.
		We spying everywhere in the world.
		And according to my job, I had a chance to work in Singapore, in China, in Moscow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And yes, and last four years of my military service, I was assigned to Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. JU field office.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And work in this country and against this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was your, when you were in this country, you say you were assigned to this country, what was your, you must have had some kind of cover for the work you were doing.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
		I had civilian cover.
		What was it?
		As a TAS news agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, as a TAS news agency correspondent.
		Yes, Erst.
		Tell me, did they train you in journalism at all?
		For the job?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I had special training in about one year.
		It was in the end of the 70s, because before I wasn't linked with journalism and corresponding job, absolutely nothing.
		And so I need to have special training.
		And I used several months in Moscow when I had this some kind of experience in writing articles and stories for newspapers, magazines.
		Because before my life I was not connected absolutely with this writing process.
		I was regular military officer, group platoon company commander, and was recruited to the JRU after my graduation from military law school in military political academy in Moscow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are rumors here in America that at some place, someplace in Russia, they have built a typical American town, a place where people train.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know exactly because I heard about this once, yes, rumors exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You too.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that KGB they had this special training center equipped and built like American Small City with people who need to speak English only, American English.
		Yes.
		But I never been inside the city and I had the same information as you, so I heard about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that your first time in America?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Because before I was trained for the intelligence against China, and actually I worked against China in China, in Singapore and inside former Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the organization that you work for, so people might understand, in America would it be like the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, what would it be like in America?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You can compare former KGB intelligence with American CIA.
		CIA.
		Yes, but my former agency you can compare for combination between different American agencies.
		First of all, combination of DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, Special Operation Forces Command with headquarters in Tampa, National Reconnaissance Office which is in charge of American space intelligence, and U.S. Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps intelligence agencies together.
		Because in JRU all these institutions are only sub-directorates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
		All right.
		So the mission of these agencies, many agencies that were combined into one that you worked for, was to gather intelligence about what?
		About foreign countries' intentions, capabilities, armaments.
		What kind of information did you gather?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		All types of information which could be used by commanders in planning of future war and actually in real war against any other country in the world, plus not only information gathering but active measures by Special Operation Forces commanders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you still alive?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
		You are the highest-ranking military defector from an intelligence organization ever from the Soviet Union, ever, ever, ever.
		When did you defect what year?
		In 1992, after about four years of staying in Washington, D.C. Was that during the Cold War a great danger for the Soviet Union, that people like yourself sent to America begin to turn native?
		Was that a big danger?
		Did that happen to many others who were able to come to the West?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was really dangerous because my information really was valued and dangerous for former Soviet Union or for Russian Federation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were you actually supposed to be doing here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were said to be a journalist for TAS, but what were you really supposed to be doing?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Then.
		Then I was a spy, a military spy who worked against America under cover of Tasmania's agency correspondent.
		And my main, more primary mission in this country was penetration through American national security system.
		First of all, trying to find American plans and intentions connected with military use against former Soviet Union and last period of my life in Washington, D.C., Russian Federation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how would you do that?
		I mean, you are obviously a Russian, ostensibly a reporter, and so how would you get close to any important U.S. defense information?
		Can you say how?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		It's very typical spy business because first of all I need to find people who was possible for recruitment and develop relations with this person to the stage when this person began to assist me in my spy business.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		It means recruitment of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you look for?
		Did you look for people who were in financial trouble, people who were in some way dissatisfied with their jobs?
		Or what constituted a good prospect for recruitment?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Actually, you already answered your question because of course we looked for people who is not satisfied by his living conditions, by his life, by his bosses or somebody else who need extra money and in his mind he was or is not strongly opposed possibility to sell his secrets for
		money which he needs.
		And let's say that in Washington DC it's not so difficult mission because in that area uh actually every other is uh working for American government and has very interesting information for foreign intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you did this uh not only in America but worldwide for 20 years?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, before I made the same job in Singapore, in China and in Moscow because when I was assigned to the JRU headquarter in Moscow, we did the same absolutely job against foreigners who visited or living in former Soviet Union.
		Why did you discuss it's a very long story art very long story, but if very briefly I can tell you that I could not provide any more my very special services for absolutely unresponsible people,
		corrupted from top to bottom, corrupted people and with direct links with organized crime groups in Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a very good answer, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you a member, I'm sure you were, of the Communist Party, right?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that Russia is supposedly has many reforms and is much freer, well, that's what they say.
		That's what the poll is made.
		I know.
		It's even worse than it was when you defected.
		And now the mafia in Russia seems to control almost everything.
		So as bad as it was when you defected, now I think it is even worse.
		Do you agree?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I agree, Art, and you're right, because in my memory, I return back from time to time to the mid of 80s, beginning of 90s,
		and I remember all our hopes for the future changes in Russia about the possibility of democracy, about some kind of reforms which could change Russian economy and change way of life for Russian people.
		But unfortunately, nothing happened.
		And just now the situation is becoming more and more difficult for Russian people and actually much more dangerous for the international community.
		Danger which is coming from Russian Federation government activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan, if you went back to Russia today, what would happen?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I can make suicide here.
		What for?
		I go to turn back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure.
		What for is a good answer, but I mean, if you did go back now, do you think...
		Oh, you can commit suicide here.
		That's your answer, huh?
		So it'd be suicidal to go back.
		Yes.
		Do you have a family?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have family with me here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you bring them with you, or did you start your family after you defected?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I made this step, I mean defection, together with my family members.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Together with your family?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I try to do it as professional, without any noise and attention from somebody else from outside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but I remember there was noise all over the American press when you defected.
		I remember that.
		That was big news for a while.
		All right, Stanislav, stand by, and we're at the bottom of the hour now.
		Stanislav Lunov is my guest.
		We're going to call him Stan.
		He is indeed Russia's highest-ranking military defector in all the history of defections.
		He was a spy for Russia, for the Soviet Union.
		And in a moment, we'll dig deeper.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from September
		Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		4th, 1998.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks tonight's an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have online Stanislav Lunov, who is Russia's highest-ranking military defector in all of history.
		He is still alive today, and he doesn't know why.
		To return suicidal.
		His mission while he was here to recruit U.S. spies, people who would sell, or for whatever consideration, give away our secrets.
		So, he was the real McCoy.
		In a moment, he'll be right back.
unidentified		In a moment, he'll be right back.
unidentified		800-862-8376 or visit our website at termbusters.net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember what 800-862-8376.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rates and availability may vary by state.
unidentified		Sample rate quotes based on preferred non-tobacco underwriting.
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		You're listening to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here once again is Stan.
		Stan, welcome back.
		Stan, even though Russia was in the grips then and now, of the mafia, and there was much, a whole lot of corruption, the Russian people are a very proud people.
		Very proud.
		And what was your thinking like when you defected?
		It must have been very hard for you.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was a very hard decision for me.
		And actually, I changed my life totally.
		And yes, of course, it was not only hard, it was very difficult, and psychologically, psychologically, mentally, with all this stuff.
		And I made my decision by this point with very big difficulties.
		But I could not afford for myself to provide my very special services for criminals and people connected with criminals.
		So you're at a very, very difficult time of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when you defected, your family was here with you, is that correct?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because in 1992, after the US Society's integration, counterintelligence didn't control everything for former Soviet military personnel abroad, and I had a chance to have all my family members together with me.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And after my decision for this defection, my family actually followed me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If your family had been in Russia when you defected.
		I would not defect.
		You would not have defected?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if I wouldn't have my family with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you did defect, I'm sure that you spent quite some time with our CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		More exactly.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I spent a lot of time together with representatives, practically from all American special services.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long a period of time did that take?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		More than one year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More than one year?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had a chance to compare our intelligence services, as they debriefed you, to Russian intelligence services.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a big difference?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that it was very good experience in compare of Russian and American special services in time of my debriefing because in a de factor position you cannot collect real information about your adversary, former adversary.
		But my previous service, my previous intelligence business, it was very good evidence and how American intelligence is working worldwide.
		So I can compare Russian and American intelligence communities from my whole practice and experience as an intelligence officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you think they are very much the same.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Not the same, not the same because it's different attitudes, different culture, and different organizations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So American intelligence was kinder, easier, do you think, in their debriefings of you, more friendly?
unidentified		What?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		In time of debriefing, you cannot propose something really about people who is debriefing you because they are professionals and they cannot afford to show you their feelings or something else.
		So usually they are neutral.
		But from my previous experience, when I worked operationally against this country, I had much better chance to understand what does it mean American intelligence and counterintelligence agencies.
		So only by this reason I am disputing with you from time of my experience before defection and after defection.
		So before defection it was much more realistic assessment about American intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have many, many secrets that you were able to give our intelligence or did your work in Russia in the Soviet Union, was it compartmentalized so you did not know too much or did you have a broad knowledge?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I had enough secrets, enough secrets.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I had many secrets and not only because in former Soviet Union, when I stayed in Moscow, I had very high position in my former organization, but because of a very special job which I did before in my previous experience and expertise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In this country, we have two main political parties, the Democrats and the Republicans.
		The Republicans generally have been very wary of Russia when it was the Soviet Union and Russia today.
		The Democrats, less so.
		Now, do you have in this country Republican sponsors, people conservative Americans, who sponsor your talking?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never, huh?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Never, but in this country you have more than two parties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You remember last presidential election, it was one more.
		Very interesting party.
		And I don't know how to say it in a few seconds, but you know, actually when Soviet Union officials negotiated with Americans for a long, long period of time, usually it was much more easy to negotiate with the Democratic Party in the United States.
		I'm sure.
		But all breakthrough in relations between America and the former Soviet Union usually came from Republicans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true, isn't it?
		Yes.
		Many people would compare the personalities of Ross Perot and Boris Yeltsin.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I cannot make this compare because Ross Perot is a very responsible person and very intelligent.
		And how to compare him with Boris Yeltsin, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not politically.
		Both of them are kind of wild men in their own way.
		Just kind of unusual men with unusual personalities.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Ert, I'm sorry, but to be wild men, you could be wild men, but you need to be smart or you are stupid like Yeltsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stupid like Yeltsin.
		Yes.
		So you're not a Boris Yeltsin fan, huh?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		No, I cannot be a fan of this person because I met with him several times, I spoke with him several times, and let's say that last my meeting with him, it was one of last drops for my decision to defect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Really, because it happened in 1992 when he was with his working visit to the United States.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, I was only one correspondent in Washington, D.C., Soviet and foreign correspondents, only one who had the chance to take interview from him after his conversations with then-time President Bush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was it about Boris Yeltsin when you met him and when you talked to him that obviously left such a bad taste in your mouth?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		It's very difficult for me to talk about him because I found him absolutely unresponsible.
		Person who actually thought about him himself and his big family members, not about country, not about people, and person who can sacrifice his direct responsibilities by his drinking of Alcado.
		It's not good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The situation in Russia now is not good.
		Again, there seems to be a crisis with Yeltsin and the Duma and the Parliament.
		And I wonder what you think will happen.
		How will this be resolved?
		Will there be a compromise, do you think?
		Some kind of compromise?
		Or do you think there will be more tanks firing on the parliament building?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		If more tanks in Moscow, it means repeatment of history.
		You know what's going on in Russia because this country is actually non-stop economical, industrial, political, social, just now in very deep financial and constitutional crisis.
		And to predict what could happen in Russia in the nearest time is very difficult.
		But usually, usually, President and Parliament they can find compromise and finally approve a new cabinet of ministers for Russian Federation.
		But if you keep in mind the very strong position of main Yeltsin opponents in Russian parliament, communists, because they are just now the most powerful organized group inside Russian lower house.
		And they very strongly oppose Yeltsin candidacy for Prime Minister, his old buddy, Mr. Chernamurdin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chernamurdin.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mr. Chernamurdy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the vote, the first vote was something like 294 to 51 or that 294 would that mostly be Communists?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Communists?
		They have about 150 votes.
		So they vote against Chernamurtin together with other blocs, including the third powerful organization in Russian parliament, this is Zhirinovsky Party.
		You know Zerinovsky?
		Yes.
		Zerinovsky, this ultra-nationalist and guy who requested Aliaska return back to Russia and advised the Russian military to wash their boots in Indian Ocean.
		But this guy is very popular and his organization, his fraction in parliament, they vote against Yeltsin candidacy Mr. Chena Mergin together with communists and with, by the way, with Democrats, so-called Jablaka or Republic led by Mr. Jewelinsky.
		So it was coalition, coalition of opposition, who decided to vote against Czernamurgin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A coalition.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		A coalition, yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		But later, let's say day before yesterday, Zerynowski changed his position and said that next time he will not oppose candidacy of Chernamergin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the Duma were to submit names for the cabinet do you expect to see Duranelski's name?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so but it's possible if...
		That could be the Yes, it could be a deal, but not Zhirinowski.
		I think somebody from his people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Alexander Lebed?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Just now he is one of the most prominent politician leaders in Russian Federation.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Former airborne general, and he is extremely popular for people who are between communists and Democrats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he has been saying, Alexander Levitt has been saying that he believes Boris Yeltin is pushing Russia into civil war.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Levitt talking too much, and sometimes he doesn't follow his own words.
		He said only a few days before.
		But these words that the Yeltsin government pushing Russia to the civil war, yes, it's correct, because all what is going on just now in Russian Federation, clearly demonstrating that in this country,
		any other day, it could be social explosion of people who cannot afford to be in the same very, very bad position and situation as they are just now.
		And if this social explosion would be in place, it would be in the country with tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and hundreds of metric tons of chemical and biological weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we see pictures now of Russian civilians trying to get into their banks.
		I'm sure you've seen the pictures.
		And there is no money.
		The ruble now is about 17 to 1 against the dollar.
		Russia economically is completely melting down.
		And when that happens, usually you have governments that change or you have civil wars.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Usually, but not in Russian connection.
		Because you are absolutely right that Russia's economy just now is melting down.
		But it's not melting down.
		And keep in mind that Russian people during about seven decades lived under totalitarian regime of Communist Party.
		And in this time, when it was total repression against the whole population of the country, actually the best brain went out from Russian society.
		We were washed out from Russian society.
		And Russian people just now there are so much patience to everything and looking only for their survival that they are not active politically or socially.
		And it's very difficult to wake up Russian people.
		But if finally it happened and Russian people will wake up, it would be very difficult to find a way how to return these people to the normal life.
		And what's just now is going in Russia, of course it would be some kind of revolution for all other countries.
		But it's not enough for Russian people to wake up and destroy all this regime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have had hard times for so long that this is just more hard times for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're right, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that the Russian military and the Russian leadership still plans to wage war against the United States?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
		Okay, I'm sorry.
		Because it's well known for me, well known for specialists.
		Of course, it's not known for American public.
		Why, I don't know.
		But let's say that recently, only a couple of months ago, Russian Strategic Air Force Command Had very, very big field exercises.
		And in time of this maneuvering, during several weeks, Russian military command trained military personnel for the future war against the United States of America.
		Last week it was Navy exercises in Northern Fleet, and they trained Russian military personnel for the war against America and American friends and allies, first of all, by NATO organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan, hold it right there.
		We'll be back to you after the break.
		And that's, of course, the point we'll pick up on.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		The End
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanislav Lunev is Russia's highest-ranking military defector in history, and he is also my guest right now.
		He defected to the U.S., ostensibly here spying, as a TAS news agency correspondent.
		Met doesn't like Yeltsin, believes that Russia is planning a war against the U.S., still planning a war against us.
		I asked him about that, and he said, are you kidding?
		And of course, I'm not kidding.
		We're going to probe into this area in just a moment.
unidentified		Groan
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		you know it's very very hard not All right, once again, here is Stan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sam, welcome back to the program.
		Here?
		You still awake, okay?
		Yes.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I want to, before we get back into this war thing, I want to ask you one very important question.
		Earlier in the interview, I asked you why you defected.
		And you said because you could no longer do the job that you were doing, spying, for the corrupt people that you were working for.
		Now, maybe this would be hard for you to answer, but if there was not corruption, if there was a pure communism, maybe there is no such thing, but if there was some, if it was pretty much a pure communism, would you still be there?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		During the last several years, I had a chance to look through the history read a lot, and I found that actually in real life, it's impossible to have pure communism.
		And people who will cover themselves like communists, but anyway, they will follow their own agenda.
		And in this case, to believe that it's possible to have some kind of communism.
		No, it's impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many of us also think it's impossible to have pure capitalism.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		But, but, but, but in this country, uh you do have much more socialism than uh we did have in the former Soviet Union.
		Oh, really?
		Yes, and you know that uh your government from time to time is uh really concerned about its own people and trying to assist people who are in very bad shape financially, economically.
		You know, your welfare programs and social security benefits.
		So in this country you have much more socialism than we did have it in the former Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying.
		You know, of course, what MAD is, mutual assured destruction.
		You said that Russia still plans a war against the United States.
		What has always kept us from war is the fact that we would all kill each other mostly and poison the planet and commit suicide because of so many nuclear weapons.
		Now, if Russia still believes that it will have a war with the United States, how does it believe it will survive such a war?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		It's very difficult to say that Russia itself.
		But let's say Russian people, Russian people, ordinary Russians, they don't care about this future war.
		They just now are thinking how they can survive in this very terrible situation in this country now.
		And actually, in general, Russian people, they do not have some kind of hostile feeling against America or against Americans.
		We do have so many common together in history and culture, the same human values.
		And if you will return back for several years before, you will find that we have approximately the same social situation, not political, but America.
		America is our planet in miniature.
		And in this country, we do have dozens of different nations, nationalities, color of skin, races.
		And all these people are living and working together, sometimes with big problems, with small problems.
		But what family can exist without problem?
		I don't know the family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I do understand about the Russian people, but we are talking about the Russian government, or we are just talking about what communists are left in the Russian government.
		If they plan a war, how do they plan it?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		But yes, you are right.
		But Russian government, they don't care about country people.
		They care about themselves only.
		And about much more money in their pocket, how it's possible.
		And for future survival in possible and future war between Russia and other world, they prepare themselves to exist for many, many years after this terrible thing which could be happening to our planet.
		Let's say that under Moscow there is one more city, underground city.
		It's special bunkers for leaders of Russian Federation and their families.
		And in Siberia, Ural Mountains, under construction there is very big, big underground city by the size of Washington, D.C. Beltway.
		Can you imagine this underground city?
		It's huge.
		And it would be a bunker where Russian elite can survive if our planet would be destroyed for a long, long period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In America we have pretty much a free press.
		In other words, anybody can report almost anything.
		I'm a great example of that.
		I talk about all kinds of wild things here.
		So why is this information not widely known, do you think, in America?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know because for me it's really surprising that American people know so little about hostile countries' military plans for the future war against America.
		For me it's surprised why America does have free press and free press doesn't pay any attention to this real danger for the national security, not of only this country, but for the international community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but in security work, Stan, you look at a country's, number one, capabilities, what they can do.
		And number two, what are their intentions?
		What do they want to do?
		Russia, of course, has the capabilities, as you said, many thousands of nuclear weapons.
		But how can we believe their intentions?
		By looking at these underground cities that are preparing for war?
		What else can we look at?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I remember that this news that Russian government has this huge construction in Ural Mountains, it was some kind of several news about this once and special hearing in Capitol Hill.
		But why American public doesn't know about this once?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The American public thinks the intentions of Russia are good.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so, because if you will follow events in Russian Federation, you will find that intentions of Russian government are not very good.
		Let's take every crisis which happened in the international community during last several years, and you will find that Russian government position usually is very different from American position.
		You will find that in time when the whole world is worried about non-proliferation of mass destruction weapons, you will find that in any violation of non-proliferation regime, Russian government is involved.
		And you will find that actually all promises made by Russian Federation government and president by himself, all these promises and obligations were violated by the same government in case of nuclear technology transfer to Iran,
		Iraq, to missile technology, the same Iran, North Korea and other countries.
		So in real life, promises, yes, they are promises, but they are not fulfilled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stan, I want to believe it.
		Yes, I want to ask you this.
		I have business dealings with some Russians.
		Now, I don't want you to be insulted by what I'm going to ask you.
		But I have business dealings with some Russians who have factories in Russia.
		And that's all I want to say.
		But I have dealings with them.
		And what I have found is that Russian business people, as a normal part of what I believe their culture is, lie.
		Now, they lie about small things.
		You would ask them, did you make a shipment?
		And they would say yes, automatically.
		Lie.
		And is that part of Russian culture?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		Strong no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Strong no.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Strong no, because it's not in nature of Russian to lie, but it's nature of so-called new Russians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Russians?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		New Russians which appeared in time of the USSI destruction and creation of so-called democratic Russia.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		People which are people who follow example of their president and lie every other time when it's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that is who I am dealing with, is the new Russians.
		I'm sure that is true.
		Are these the people in Russia now that we think of as the capitalists, the ones who are making money, the few that are making money?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		No, just now there are tens of thousands of people who are existing on so-called business, who try to make money from everything where it's possible and usually cheating each other.
		But this is the beginning of capitalism.
		And by in time when Russians themselves named their capitalism, you know how do they name it?
		Capitalism Jurassic Park style.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jurassic Park style.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Jurassic Park style, yes.
		They of course trying to make business by cheating people, lying somewhere and everywhere and to everybody.
		But what can you expect from a country which under control of more than strange government, under control of absolutely unresponsible people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we hear rumors in the United States of 100 Russian suitcase-size nuclear weapons.
		That 100 of those are someplace.
		And of course, with all the money trouble in Russia, we worry that other nuclear weapons have left Russia and are going to the hands of terrorists around the world.
		Do you believe that is happening?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Not now.
		Because these technical nuclear devices, named by nuclear briefcases, they were designed in former Soviet Union by Special Operation Forces commanders and could be used by these commanders on the hostile territories in time of future nuclear war against targets which are highly protected and
		cannot be destroyed by a regular nuclear missile strike.
		But they are in the hands of Special Operation Forces commanders, not terrorists, and could be used only by the request of Russian Federation government.
		To believe that international terrorists will get an access to these devices, I don't believe it.
		And according to my information, these devices are in the hands of military, not terrorists.
		And for international terrorists to get this access, it would be extremely difficult or impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think the same thing is true of chemical weapons and biological weapons?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because these types of weapons could be used Special Operation Forces commanders in time of war and absolutely the same way as conventional weapon systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here in the United States, during Ronald Reagan's administration, we had a very big military buildup.
		The Soviet Union began to fall apart about when President Reagan was talking about Star Wars, about the Star Wars program.
		That's about the time that the Soviet Union began to fall apart and break apart.
		Do you believe that the threat of an arms race into space is what made the Soviets finally say we can't afford this anymore, so we've got to go underground?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You mean from movement of arms race from space to underground?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean that President Reagan was talking about spending so much money putting up this Star Wars that many people in America believe that the Soviets looked at what he was doing and said, look, we just cannot afford to keep up anymore, so we give up.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I remember that time and I remember this Star Wars program and all other American military programs.
		It was competition between two different systems, between two different camps.
		And actually as a result of Reagan administration strategy, not only by his strategy, but his strategy is segregated process of the USSR, his integration.
		It was very, very powerful strategy.
		It worked very hard against the former Soviet Union.
		And of course, at that time, I remember that the Soviet economy was overheated by these military preparations, by military buildup.
		And actually, it was beginning of the end of communist totalitarian regime and former Soviet Union.
		If you ask me about President Reagan, I'm one of big fans of him and I'm really excited of him.
		Yes, because not only me, but a lot of my former associates and my friends, we thought about Ronald Reagan as a genius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had a lot of respect for a lot of respect for Ronald Reagan.
		Yes.
		Do you think the present Russian government has a lot of respect for President Clinton?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any idea.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any idea, but Americans, you are doing by yourself very many for the destruction of American presidency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing for ourselves, you mean?
		The destruction?
		Yeah, that's true.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You guys are doing for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good observation.
		All right, Stan, hold on.
		When we get back, I'm going to ask about some specific development of weapons.
		Like seismic weapons, weapons designed to cause earthquakes, electromagnetic weapons.
		Did the Russians develop those?
		Are they testing them?
unidentified		Are they still developing those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And oh yes, the war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When will the war happen?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		Without your love, oh baby, don't leave me this way.
		I can't accept.
		I'll surely miss your tender care.
		But don't leave me this way.
		Baby, my heart is full of love and in love with you.
		Now come down and do what you gotta do.
		you And I know you don't better feel the thing I think.
		Keep me in the comfortable place.
		And I know you don't better feel the thing I think.
		Keep me in the comfortable place.
		We'll be happy and we'll be safe Oh, we'll be happy and we'll be safe If I'm feeling good to you and you're good to me There ain't nothing we can do or say Feeling
		good, feeling fine Oh, baby, we'll be happy and we'll be safe Oh, I'll never give a day Oh, I'll never give a day
		Oh, I'll never give a day Or be happy Like a lady from the river Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		If you can call it good listening to this, Stanislav Lunov is my guest.
		He is Russia's highest-ranking military defector in all the years of the Cold War.
		He's the highest-ranking defector.
		And in a moment, we're going to talk about the central issue, that of nuclear war, direct nuclear confrontation between the two great powers.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach, and unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		Now we take you back to the night of September 4th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Stan.
		Stan, you believe that a war between what used to be the Soviet Union, Russia I guess now, and the United States is inevitable and will happen, that Russia will attack the United States.
		Is that clear?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
		Not now.
		And actually, I cannot see possibilities when it could happen in future if nothing would be changed.
		But you know what the situation is in Russia now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And every other day, if it happened, some kind of social explosion, possibility of war would be closer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were advising an American president, Stan, and you saw the situation in Russia deteriorating very quickly with the wrong people taking over, would you advise our president to attack Russia first?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I cannot advise the American President to attack Russia first by the reason that I do not have in my hands information which is necessary for the decision-making process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During the time that you were in Russian intelligence, would you have advised an American president to attack Russia first?
		Did you believe then that there was going to be a war?
		Only a matter of time?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		To believe that it's impossible to avoid any kind of war, but very smart politics.
		I don't think so, because in history it's happened many, many times when smart policy prevented war.
		So I cannot take responsibility for myself and advise somebody to do something if I do not have all information which is possible to have for my decision-making process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says, though, in your book, Through the Eyes of the Enemy, Russian military intelligence does everything it can to prepare for a war that it considers inevitable.
		Let me be very clear about this.
		The GRU Russian military intelligence is still recruiting agents, still preparing for war with the United States as we approach the supposedly peaceful post-war Cold War millennium.
		Now, that's very clear, and it seems to suggest there will be a war.
		Did you write that?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And everything that is going on in Russian intelligence community now is confirming this proposal.
		Because military machine, it's not independent machine.
		It's working by the request of highest military political leadership, from requests from president.
		And if this government cannot afford to exist in peacetime without crisis, it's look for foreign enemies to put attention of people from domestic problems to foreign enemies activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wag the Kremlin.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also, you said the GRU continues to train terrorists worldwide.
		As you can see, even though Russia no longer seems to be the direct enemy because of a desire for profit, it remains the major threat to the U.S. through weapons, proliferation, and training.
		True?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		True.
		And actually, my former associates by my former agency were involved in international terrorist training for a long, long period of time.
		But we never named these guys as terrorists because we named them fighters for national liberation movement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Freedom fighters.
		Of course.
		And for me and for my former associates, it wasn't a very good idea to take part in training of these dangerous persons because we knew exactly what is their real nature.
		And I was really pleased when in 1990 I heard about special request made by former Soviet, first and last Soviet President Mikhail Garbachev, who requested my agency to stop training of international terrorists and we very welcomed his decision.
		But unfortunately in 1991, 92, 93 and later I get news that this training is still in place.
		But if in time of former Soviet Union existence this training was done by political reasons to establish Soviet influence in areas of this terrorist activity, just now it's going for money because everything is for sale in Russia.
		Yes, for money, because last news I had about this once it was about Aoum Sinrikyu cult members, this Japanese cult which used Neov's gas in Tokyo Subway several years ago.
		And these members of this cult, they received training in one of the JRU training centers in Siberia and pay for this training.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
		That was the sarin gas attack in Tokyo.
		Yes.
		We have heard rumors of Russia developing laser seismic weapons, weapons that would be developed to actually cause earthquakes, which are even better than many atomic weapons, electromagnetic and radio weapons, development of these weapons, is it still, is it true first, particularly about the seismic weapons?
		Is that true?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Are you kidding?
		I know that American people know so little about this hostile country's policies, military research, development.
		But for me it was a well-known fact and by the way maybe you would be first who will know the official name of program which existed in former Soviet Union for the development of seismic or tectonic weapons.
		Name of this program was Mercury 18th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mercury, let me be sure I've got it right.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Mercury 18th, 1-8.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mercury 18.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this was, what was the idea?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how they could, was it strategic placing of nuclear devices to cause...
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Because seismic weapons is absolutely different type of weapons and using seismic energy, natural energy which is existing in real life permanently and direct this energy to concrete places in concrete time to organize earthquake, natural earthquake.
		No nuclear connections.
		Yes, first researches which were done in this direction, they were connected with nuclear tests and Soviet scientists found connection between nuclear tests and earthquakes.
		But later development was absolutely not connected with nuclear explosions and concentrated of natural use of seismic energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Mercury 18.
		And so this was a different way to create earthquakes using some...
		Do you know if this was actually done?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was done.
		And let's say in the mid of 80s, as a result of tests of these weapons, not very big city, Spitak, was destroyed in Caucasia, Trans-Caucasi region.
		Several villages were destroyed.
		And I heard that last test was done in February of this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		February of this year.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		In Chechnya, when some people tried to organize earthquake in Chechen capital city of Grozny.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		But I don't think that this test was successful because instead of really deep earthquake, it was very small earthquake, about two or three degrees by Richter scale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I would like to take a couple of calls, and I need to think about what you just said to me.
		On my first time caller line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
		Where are you, please?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		My name is Milos.
		I'm calling from New York City.
		Yes, sir.
		It's a great show, and I have a question for Stanislav.
		We know that America and Russia are really in a good shape right now.
		But Mr. Lunov never mentioned anything about China.
		China is their closest neighbor, hostile neighbor, and he never mentioned anything about China.
		I mean, what would be the reason for Russia to attack the USA?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an interesting point, and he did some intelligence work in or near China, so we will ask him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you Russian yourself?
unidentified		No, I'm from, well, 15 years ago, it used to be Yugoslavia.
unidentified		Right now I don't know what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right now, nobody knows.
		Okay, Stan, China, it's a good point.
		China is not a large nuclear power, but a substantial nuclear power.
		And if there were a war between the United States and Russia, if Russia attacked the U.S., what do you think China would do?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You know that now there are no some kind of ideological disputes between Russian Federation and China, which had place in time of Soviet Union existence.
		And actually just now there are no any kind of very special problems in the relations between two countries because all these problems we resolved during last ten years include border problems and relations between two countries just now are very good.
		And by my point of view, and not only my but some specialists, relations between Russia and China are so good that it's possible to expect that in nearest time it would be some kind of military alliance between Russian Federation, so-called democratic Russia and totalitarian China.
		Military ally directed against United States and Americans, friends and allies everywhere.
		So to propose that it would be some kind of real war between Russia and China?
		No, I don't think so.
		They are very close together.
		They do have already have secret agreement for intelligence cooperation against United States and other Western countries.
		They do have integrating military machines, military-industrial complexes.
		And if it could be happened and military alliance would be in place, I think that China and Russia will stay together against American imperialism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here in America, American imperialism.
		Here in America, many people think we have two governments, that we have one secret government and one very public government.
		Do you believe that in Russia there are really two governments, one that we see with Boris Yeltsin sometimes, and another government behind the scenes that is still holding all the power?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so, because this government, which you can see, President Yeltsin and around him, is real government, corrupted, connected with criminals, but it's real government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's a real government.
		A real corrupted government.
		Yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And Yelsen, by the way, a couple of years ago, he needed to recognize openly that just now Russia is a criminal state.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And of course, he didn't mention about himself, but everybody includes himself in this criminal system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm calling from Carmichael, California.
		Yes, sir.
		I just wanted to say Russia has something top of the world, and that's holy orthodoxy.
		And that Mother God is watching over Orthodox people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, actually, okay.
		There is now a revival of religion in Russia.
		Yes.
		Is it a strong revival, and is it some reason for hope that it will not come to a war between our two nations?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Actually, your second proposal is most correct, because it's not so much revival of religion, but it's hope of people to find some kind of way for future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Because in their current life, they suffering too much, and there is no any kind of ideology, nationwide ideology in Russia.
		And people return back to religion, trying to find a way how to express themselves and found themselves in our world.
		And Orthodoxy.
		Yes, of course, Russian Orthodox religion is still very extremely popular between Russians, but not only this religion.
		There are a lot of Catholics, a lot of Jewish people, a lot of Islam people, Buddhists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think many Americans would be surprised how many churches are in Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are every place.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Look at America and approximately the same situation as Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		What should America watch for?
		As we look at Russia and we watch the changes in Russia, what would be most dangerous?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Very good question, Eric.
		But what America needs to do in this situation, let's say America needs to know what is going on in foreign countries, let's say in Russia, in former Soviet Union,
		and to recognize the difference between promises and real situation and try to understand how to push some non-responsible people to fulfill their promises made officially and get a lot of money for this under these promises, billions of dollars.
		And of course, to prepare itself for the protection against possible danger and possible attacks from hostile and non-friendly countries to improve American national security system and to concentrate its system against for the protection against most important dangers for this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sam, we're at the top of the hour.
		If you would like to stay on, we can do one more hour.
		Many people would like to talk to you.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		That's up to you.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want one more?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		Stay right there.
		All right.
		Well, I shouldn't have to say anything.
unidentified		the uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		russians top ranking military defector is my guess stanslav linna You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
		Music by Ben Thede
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		You're listening to the highest-ranking military intelligence defector ever from the Soviet Union, Stanislav Lunov.
		And he'll be right back.
		We're going to lay heavily into the phones this hour if you have a question.
		I've got a couple of more and then we're just going to dive directly into the poem, so don't move.
unidentified		Mark.
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		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
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		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only a certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan, welcome back again.
		Russia has always been, for good reason, I believe, a very paranoid government.
		Very paranoid.
		And Russia now sees NATO expanding all around them.
		How do you think they are reacting to this in Moscow?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Very negative.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Of course, they do not want this expansion because NATO and Western civilization, Western democracies are becoming more and more closer to Russia itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And they don't like it at all.
		And they try to explain to Russian people that American imperialism didn't change its nature.
		And until now, Israel threat, internal foreign threat for Russia and for Russian people.
		And America trying to destroy Russia the same way as America destroy former Soviet Union.
		Of course, this is propaganda and rhetorics.
		Somebody believe it, somebody not.
		I don't think that majority of Russians believe in these ideas because Russian people is not stupid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the old Russian hardline communists, they surely believe it.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You know, this hardline communists, they never believe really in ideas which will pronounce by themselves as some kind of absolutely truth.
		And when they are talking about this NATO extension to the east and southeast, they using this as much more for propaganda than for real estimation of possible danger to Russia.
		Because you know that Russian government closed its eyes on the missile transfer, missile technology transfer to Iran.
		And if Iran will develop its own missile weapons, the first target for this missile would be southern Russia.
		And it would be real threat to Russia, not mystical threat from NATO extension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask you again, what should we watch for?
		What would be very dangerous in Russia if we saw a civil war?
		Would that be a very dangerous time for us here if we saw the communists begin to take over and a coup d'état with Yeltsin out and Zharonowski in or something like that?
unidentified		What would we watch for?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I would say that just now it's necessary to watch what's going on in Russia very attentively because you know that Russian President Baris Yeltsin he is not good health.
		Actually he is sick, tired and ill and plus he is well known very bad habit.
		Actually he is drunk and every other day something could be happen with him.
		But if it will happen with him now it would be constitutional crisis in Russia.
		And keep in mind that in accordance with Russian constitution he could be succeeded by his prime minister only.
		But in current time when he fired former prime minister young Piercen Sergei Kiriyanka two weeks ago, he tried to receive this parliament agreement for his old body Mr. Chernamurdin but parliament rejected candidacy of Chernamueldin and just now there is no constitutional
		successor for president and if something happens with Yeltsin nobody willn't replace him and in time without power it's very good time for very strange people come to power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that would be a very dangerous moment for the West.
unidentified		It would be extremely dangerous moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again I'm going to ask you this question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it's a very hard question, but if we began to see that happening over there and it seemed like war was inevitable eventually, wouldn't America be smart to use nuclear weapons first?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		For me, once more it's very difficult to answer this question because I need to have information for the decision-making process.
		But Art, please trust me that in this country you have enough smart people who plan American activity for any possible development worldwide.
		And in your Department of Defense I think there are very good plans how to react for any possible changes in Russian Federation, include possibility of coup revolts, social arrest, unrest and all other possible developments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if Boris Yeltsin were to die today, there is no constitutional succession in place and it would be power would be up for grabs, is that right?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but keep in mind one more point, that according to the Russian Constitution, if something happened now with Yeltsin, his constitutional successor would be his former prime minister, which was fired two weeks ago.
		The guy who was fired by Yeltsin and destroyed politically and actually according to Russian constitution, he needs to be acting president.
		But nobody from Russian government doesn't want to recognize this fact.
		And of course, if you return back to two weeks ago, it was Sibyl's news from Moscow that Yeltsin signed his letter for resignation.
		And of course, when somebody from Yeltsin's office found Article 117.5 in his own constitution, he explained it to Yeltsin that if something happened with him, he would be replaced by Jelson, which was fired by Yeltsin.
		Of course, after this, Yeltsin immediately stepped back and said, no, no, no intentions, and I didn't sign nothing.
		Do you believe he did?
		Yes, in this case, it's everything looks like it's almost happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back to these phone lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Art and Stan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, you're going to have to yell at us, sir.
unidentified		Yes, this is Wayne Colling from the Great Northwest, KEX Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Wanting to ask Stan what knowledge he might have, if he has any inside knowledge of UFOs that perhaps the Russians have captured, and if there's been any trading of these type of items between Russia and the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan, in this country.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have many, many reports of objects that fly very quickly, very strangely, and people believe the government does not tell the truth about these things.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I remember Russian newspapers' publications during the last several weeks and in all these publications Russian specialists or people who pretend to be specialists they are talking about that American military established contact with unknown flying objects,
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		with aliens, came to our ears from another system, space system, and keeping them in a very secret camp in Nevada or somewhere else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it is Nevada, it is Nevada, and maybe this is even better than Star Wars, huh?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so absolutely the same situation in Russia and same interest and attitude to unknown flying objects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, in Russia there is a very, very big interest in the paranormal, isn't there?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because Russian people who are actually sick and tired from their normal lives, they are looking for something else, for something interesting to give this interest-like support for their life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Zan and Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
		I think before we talk about learning more about the Soviet Union, I think we ought to learn more about how the American government, both the open and the secret government and the corporate media, which interlocks with the military-industrial complex, subjects us to this kind of disinformation and propaganda.
		There's a book, one is called Unreliable Sources, another is Manufacturing of Consent by Noam Chomsky.
		And he says, we're probably, in Cold War issues, the most brainwashed people in the world because in other countries they sort of know they're getting the official line, but here it comes down as the Art Bell program or as 60 Minutes.
		And we don't see this propaganda.
		And I think what is going on here is a classic case of what is brought out in this book, Unreliable Sources, how so-called defectors have been used by the Central Intelligence Agency to scaremonger, to create this kind of phony threats, whether it's in Central America or the Soviet Union, to justify massive military budgets.
		Former CI agents like David Peterson.
		I don't think about it.
		Hold it, hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop, stop.
		Pause.
		Take a deep breath.
		We've got the thrust of your question.
		What you're saying to Stan is that you believe he is spreading propaganda and disinformation to create a threat to feed the military-industrial complex, ensuring it continues to get its money to build weapons systems.
		Isn't that right?
unidentified		I'm saying that he's not the first.
unidentified		This has been going on for the last 15 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got that.
unidentified		I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're saying he is one of those.
unidentified		Well, there's going to be an automatic axiomatic denial, so I expect that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, allow him to make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You make the accusation, let him make the denial, all right?
unidentified		I'd like to respond, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stan?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Art, if I understand right, it's not question, it's statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it's accusation.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Statement or accusation, and I can tell to this to this gentleman that let's say that if I would be connected with American special services and worked for their interests, I would be really proud of it.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		But just now, I am providing you my own information and not connected with any kind of political gains.
unidentified		Well, you know, even on Mission Impossible, even the popular public realizes if you're discouraging, you know, we will deny everything.
		But more than that, you know, you talk about NATO.
		I think most people in this country don't know that NATO was formed nearly seven years before the Warsaw Pact was formed.
		The Warsaw Pact was a defensive response to that.
		Every major buildup of a weapon system was developed by the United States from the hydrogen bomb to intercontinent missiles, intercontinental bombers.
		We're far ahead of the Soviet Union.
		The only country that has demanded the first strike policy has been the United States.
		The Soviets refused a first strike and tried to get the United States to accept that.
		All of this attempt to project what has been a policy, as you even let slip out, they should be paranoid because the United States, along with 14 other countries, invaded the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik Revolution.
		And after the Second World War, Lucius Clay and elements of the Joint Chiefs had exactly this policy of a first strike against the Soviet Union, this genocidal policy that you so cavalially throw out there.
		You know, it seems to me that there's never been a bombing that you've opposed except to say that enough millions of people have been killed or we didn't use nuclear weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, slow up for a second.
		Stan, he's saying that the United States is a very warlike nation, that we resort to military force all the time, as we did just recently in the attack on the terrorist camp and that factory.
		or we as we did in Iraq that we really are the military aggressors not Russia and that what we're getting from you is propaganda to prop up our military industrial complex and the first of all I need to I don't know.
		It doesn't matter.
		He doesn't have a name.
		He's gone.
		He's gone now.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		If I'm talking to somebody, I need to say...
		I am specialist in Russia.
		And just now, American military was downside so much that it's not comparable with American military which existed six or seven years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but that's why Mr. X thinks you're here talking on the air now so that we can build it back up again.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Did I tell somebody that you need to increase your military machine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, actually you didn't.
		Actually you didn't.
		That's right.
		Stan, we're at the bottom of the hour, so we've got to pause here.
unidentified		Hold on, we'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The highest ranking U.S. assets.
		Once the highest ranking USSR defector is now ours.
		He's here.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 4, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from September
		4, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from September 4, 1998.
		Takes a long way.
		Takes a long way.
		You never see what you wanna see.
		Wherever things do the gallery, it takes a long way.
		Take them all alone.
		When you're up on the lake, it's so unbelievable.
		Oh, and we'll get a go.
		How may it all be?
		If anyone thinks you think you lose a insanity, Oh, calamity.
		Oh, is there no way?
		How?
		Oh, yeah.
		Don't you feel that your life's become a catastrophe?
		Oh, it has to be.
		Oh, it has to be.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are privileged to have with us Stanislaus Lunov, who is the highest-ranking military defector ever from the Soviet Union.
		He's still alive.
		That says something.
		I wonder what.
		Anyway, we'll get back to him in a moment.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
		Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		Now we take you back to the night of September 4th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Stan.
		Stan, here's a really good question for you.
		Do you think that the KGB is still in control or is in control of the mafia in Russia or the mafia is in control of the KGB?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I need to return back to the previous question, not question, but statement of Mr. X. Because a lot of people asking me how Soviet propaganda explain what does it mean American imperialism.
		Soviet propaganda explain America exactly like this gentleman told us in his statement.
		And I can, if it's possible, I would like to give him a very small piece of advice.
		If he will chance to find my book, please read this book and you will find a lot of answers for your questions when you will ask me next time about this once.
		You will already have all possible information by this reason.
		About this question, connection between PGB and Mafia.
		I need to repeat myself what I already said in the book, that Russian mafia is absolutely different from other types of mafia, from Sithelian, Colombian and others,
		because it includes top-level Communist Party officials, just now former Communist Party officials, highest-level government bureaucrats, law enforcement agencies, leaders and top-level generals, military, many, many star generals, and direct criminals inside these organizations.
		So there is some kind of direct link between organized crime in Russia and Russian law enforcement agencies, include former KGB.
		You know that KGB was split for different agencies in 1991.
		After this, they were united in one agency.
		After this, one small split for several agencies.
		Just now there are five former KGB successors.
		And actually, Macia has their own people in every of these state institutions, main KGB successors of our times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it is a great mixture, is what you're saying.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and let's say that former KGB four-star generals are so closely connected with Mafia that sometimes it's very difficult to find difference between Mafia and KGB.
		and let's say former KGB generals, just now very legitimate businessmen, using their international connections and their people, recruited by KGB intelligence officers in different
		countries, organized some kind of drug trafficking from Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia to Northern America through former Soviet Central Asia Republic, republics, Eastern Europe and Latin American countries.
		So everything is connected and with very small difference between them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have all seen many movies and many examples of Sicilian and Italian mafia.
		It is my understanding the Russian mafia is far more brutal.
		Is that true?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And its estimation of people who are inside Sicilian and Colombian mafia, because they consider themselves some kind of kids before Russian mobsters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Stan and Art.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		This is Hesher from Belfair, Washington.
		Yes, sir.
		I wanted to touch for a moment on the weather manipulation and the HAARP dealing.
		I guess it was when I was surfing one night off of a link off of your site.
		And I had previously read the Underground Bases and Tunnels book by Richard Sauter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it kind of sparked some ideas with me.
		And I had heard something about America in the late 1970s that they had shipped a 40-ton electromagnet over to Russia that they were installing in a facility that was possibly linked with HARP.
		And it was able to produce an electromagnetic field that was like 300,000 times more powerful than the gravity field on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, your question is a very good one with regard to electromagnetic weapons.
		And the Russians were and are now working on electromagnetic weapons.
		Are they not, Stan?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		You are right, because this weapons is some kind of weapons of future.
		And Soviet scientists and after them Russian scientists, they spend a lot of time and resources trying to find a way how to use electromagnetic weapons against human beings in possible war.
		And not only this, because you already said, Menson about laser weapons and you know what happened about one year ago when American pilots were blind by Russian so-called scientific ship which snaked around American nuclear submarines in Pacific.
		And you know this is about seismic weapons and very low frequency radio waves weapons, electromagnetic weapons.
		So it's very many new types of weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now Russia is having a very hard time financially.
		They can barely keep their space station in orbit.
		Do they manage to come up with black budget money to continue these projects today?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		And this is one of the paradox of current Russian life.
		Because in time of very deep multi-side crisis, Russian government find money for development of Russian military industrial complex.
		And in time when this government doesn't pay any serious attention over conventional forces in Russia, they still keep in very close control over strategic weapons development.
		And actually Russian military industrial complex just now is leading in the world in new researches and developments of new types of weapons and traditional mass destruction weapons.
		But this aspiration is everything is in Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was always my understanding, Stan, that Russian strategic nuclear weapons, Russian submarines, all were under very tight central control in Moscow, and that they really still are today under very tight central control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is so worrisome is that the central control is not very stable.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
		Yes.
		But in time when this control is not so stable by itself or inside itself, they are keeping very strong control over strategic armed forces because they know that this is only one that Russian government can Use for the money extortion from the West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our president, of course, was just in Moscow and meeting with Boris Yeltsin.
		And it seems like they reached some kind of arms agreement, which I'm sure you believe the Russian government will make promises about but never follow through on.
		I see that meeting as completely useless.
		Do you?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		For me, this summit was strange from the beginning, because I understand that American administration tried to use this summit for especially to have some kind of agreement of Russian non-participation in proliferation
		of mass destruction weapons, in Russian participation in liquidating of international conflicts, and for fighting against international terrorism, assumption kills.
		So it looks like America try to use once more direct meeting with Russian President Baris Yeltsin, asking Russia to carry not so dangerous policy which is carrying now by Russian government.
		But from the beginning for me it was very strange that this meeting would be with Pierson, who is absolutely unresponsible, giving a lot of promises but never fulfilled his promises.
		So it was fruitless from the beginning.
		And the result of this summit, I never saw the same summit which didn't have any practical results.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask you this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During the time before you effected to this country, were you for a period of time a double agent?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		What does it mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It means working for the Soviet Union and the United States.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Art and Stan.
unidentified		Hi, Art and hi, Stan.
unidentified		Joe from Boston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		Hi, and Art.
		I just want to say before I ask him a question, I met a guest of yours and he said, say hi to you.
		I don't know whether you had him on a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would that be?
unidentified		Oh, Schulman, Jack Schulman, American Computer Products.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, of course.
unidentified		He said hi.
		Okay, Stan.
		I have a couple questions for you.
		I'm a little surprised at you.
		First of all, I can't see, and we have the missile problem here.
		The Russians, Jeff Nyquist was on our show, and he believes, and I do too, that the military in Russia is armed to the hilt.
		Our military is cut back.
		So is Mr. Scullion.
		He's explained theoretically how a war could happen.
		And this Y2K problem could be the start of the Russians' war, because I know Khrushchev says we're going to bury you.
		We have Russian soldiers.
		We have cut our military in half.
		So I'd like you to address these problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your specific question?
unidentified		My question is, are the Russian missiles armed and pointed at America?
		And when Y2K happens, is there a good chance that the Russians will start a war?
		That's a perfectionist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		The Y2K thing is a computer problem.
		There are many, many people who are worried about the accidental beginning of a war.
		And it is worth worrying about.
		Do you know about this Y2K big computer problem?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
		But just ask me about Russian missiles.
		Are they directed against the United States?
unidentified		That's right.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Officially, they are not directed during the last, I think, six years.
		But this is for general public.
		But for military professionals, it's well known that if computer of missile warhead had target sometimes when, it doesn't matter when, it go inside this computer to reprogram this computer and to restore the same targets, it's necessary to spend only one part of second.
		So they could not be directed now, or maybe when we spoke, they could be redirected to different targets many, many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be fair to say that the Cold War is still going on?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Official Cold War, in this real sense of this word, finished a long time ago and not because of Russian Federation government, but because of last and first Soviet president, Mikhail Gorbachev.
		But inofficially this war is still in place and is going on by much more dangerous ways and underground in Shadow because all parts which are participating in this war are using their intelligence machines,
		counter-intelligence apparatus, and the Russian side using its organized crime connections trying to restore its power and to find way for future dominance in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Van, I was in the American Air Force and when the Cold War was, I was in there during the Vietnam War, during the Cold War.
		Would you say that when we were in the military, it was safer then than it is now?
		Or is it more dangerous now?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Arthur, I think that just now is much more dangerous because you remember these times when you was in the Air Force, it was confrontation of two military blocs, two powers.
		And every side knew exactly that if one side will make a step, another side will make immediately counter step.
		And both sides cannot afford to broke this balance of powers.
		But just now, when in Kremlin there are very unresponsible people, it's possible to expect that every other day in the Russian Federation has happened something really dangerous.
		And if it's happened, somebody unknown will come to power and we will have real danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what then, tell me, Sam, what would you tell the American people?
		What would you like to tell the American people?
		In your book, now on the radio, what would you like to tell the American people?
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for this opportunity.
		First of all, I would like to ask American people, do not believe very old Soviet propaganda.
		Unfortunately, I understand that until now this propaganda is still effective and influence over some people in America.
		And for this country, I think it's necessary to know what danger is before this country and what is the most dangerous trend which could affect American way of life.
		And of course to try to do something to protect America.
		Because if something happens with America, it will happen with fortress of democracy in the world.
		And Americans need to pay attention to their national security.
		I don't call you guys to spend much more money, to recruit much more soldiers, or to increase the build up of your military machine.
		No.
		I'd like to ask you guys to improve your national security.
		In this country, you have very powerful intelligence and counterintelligence community.
		And these people, they are real professionals.
		They actually sacrifice their life trying to protect America from all possible threats.
		But they do not have enough people, money, and possibilities to protect everything in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stan, it has been a wonderful interview.
		Thank you for staying up so late.
		I know you're on the East Coast.
		It's almost 5 o'clock.
		So, my friend, thank you.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Good night, and looking forward to see you once more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
stanislav lunev ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're done for this week.
		Listen, all of you have a good holiday weekend.
		And don't forget Sunday, it's all about the Mayan calendar.

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