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July 14, 1998 - Art Bell
02:11:40
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hyperdimensional Physics - Richard C. Hoagland
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He won the Engstrom Science Award.
He actually worked for, was a colleague of Walter Cronkite's.
He consulted for NASA, where his picture still hangs reverently in the halls of Houston, Ames Research Center and lots of other locations around NASA.
People actually have been said to salute the photograph as they walk by.
Richard C. Hoagland.
Good morning, Art.
Hey, Richard.
Welcome back.
Well, thank you.
I had a good time in Paris.
You know who else went to Paris to take a rest from their heavy labors?
Who?
Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson.
Really?
Yes.
Well, it is such a complete change of worlds from, you know, the desert where I live To Paris, which is old and filled with statues and, you know, the feeling of old that it's kind of fun.
It's just getting away, you know.
And when Graham's new book comes out, Graham Hancock.
Yes.
Together with Robert Duvall.
We're going to find out some very remarkably intriguing things about Paris.
Really?
Yep.
There's some major surprises in Paris that are connected to all the stuff that we talk about.
No kidding.
In fact, up to and including Mars.
But we're going to have to wait until they come out with the book because I don't want to, you know, steal their thunder.
All right.
We've got an awful lot to cover tonight.
And the first thing I want to ask you about, I have been bitching for two weeks now.
I've been getting story after story after story, Richard, that the Japanese, well, they've already launched a probe to Mars and they're talking about a manned mission to Mars.
And when I heard about the probe to Mars, I said to myself, What the hell are they doing?
We've sent probes.
The Russians have sent probes.
Now, why would they spend very scarce, undervalued yen, with the Asian crisis going on, to send a probe to Mars, to duplicate, no doubt, what we have done, or the Russians have done.
Why are they starting a space probe ramp?
You mean an interplanetary space program?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, these are all exquisitely interesting questions, and the most profound questions.
No one is asked because they're not into the arcana of spaceflight the way some of us are.
The real mystery art is not why they're going, but why they're going early.
It's kind of like that joke about the drunk, you know, who loses his keys, and he's searching around under the street lamp, and the cop comes by and he says, What are you doing?
And the guy says, I'm looking for my keys.
Where'd you lose them?
Well, over there, and he points out in the dark.
And the cop says, uh, why are you looking under the light?
He says, well, the light's better over here.
The Japanese have launched ART five months early.
Really?
You can't get to Mars until December.
The spacecraft is not on its way to Mars right now, tonight, at this instant.
It is somewhere circling the Earth.
In other words, they've got it circling the Earth, waiting for the window to fire it off.
Exactly.
Why?
Which has never been done in the entire history of any space program of any nation on this planet.
Exactly.
Why would you want to risk, for example, the possibility of a collision in Earth orbit with some piece of junk or something?
Well, think what's going to happen in November.
There's been an alert in Aviation Week and in a lot of the major satellite manufacturers.
We're going to go through a meteor shower.
Oh, I know.
And everyone is forecasting pretty hairy stuff for the communications satellite.
You may go off the air.
I know, I know.
One little grain of sand impacting at 26 miles per second, which is the parabolic velocity of meteors at the Earth's orbit.
Would ruin the day of one of my satellites.
Would definitely give you a bad hair day.
So why would the Japanese launch and then wait in Earth orbit?
They're in this parking orbit going around and around and around every 90 minutes or so for five months because they can't launch out of Earth orbit on the right geometry to get to Mars until December.
Never has been done.
And in all the discussions that I've heard, You know, and we never talked about it because it was so mind-boggling that I kept looking for an explanation.
I have been unable, as of tonight, to come up with any rational explanation.
The best thing that I can propose is something that Ron Nix, one of our geologists, proposed to me, you know, a couple days ago.
He said, well, Dick, it's obviously the physics.
They know something hyperdimensional that you don't.
I mean, it's almost as good as any other because it makes no sense.
Now, there is one possibility which is so Astonishing, that I kind of hesitate even to broach it.
Oh, broach it.
But, suppose you kind of had a probability estimate that your launch site might not be there when you need to launch.
Japan is very earthquake prone.
Right?
Yes.
The safest place, if you have to go to Mars, for reasons that we can get into later in the morning, would be to park it in space Waiting for when you can send it on its way.
If you may not think your launch site will be there when you need to launch.
That's the only thing I can come up with that makes any rational sense.
And even that is so amazing because it indicates that somebody thinks maybe Japan is in for a very rough ride.
So you're suggesting they may know that their launch site may not even be there or might be in rubble?
Well, might be, shall we say, in jeopardy.
Remember Hurricane Andrew when it was heading for Cape Canaveral?
Yes.
And how they battened down the hatches and put the Mars Observer on backup power and all that?
Yes.
Well, Cape Canaveral was not earthquake-prone.
But imagine that you had Cape Canaveral on an island where earthquakes are becoming increasingly severe.
And are changing depth, you know, underground in the mantle, coming up toward the crust.
Right.
You might, if you knew something about the trend curve of this thing we all call Earth Changes, and we're predicting out the model, that there might be a reasonable probability that a severe quake could so damage your launch site that you could not launch on time.
In which case, then the estimate and the calculation would make perfect sense to put it in Earth's orbit where it is safe if that's what is being projected.
Or safer, I should say.
In other words, something is really extraordinary, not just about the Japanese interest in Mars, but the fact that they have to go And they've launched five months early.
All right, but even all of that said, Richard, why go to Mars to duplicate, spend a very scarce yen on stuff that we've already done?
What are the possibilities there?
Small to zero.
I mean, this data, as you know, is shared freely and has been shared freely even during the height of the Cold War.
We were sharing our space data with the Russians, and they were sharing their Venus data with us.
Don't they trust our photographs?
Well, that does raise an interesting set of ideas, doesn't it?
Now, one of our listeners faxed me a couple of days ago, and I don't remember their names, but someone heard a news story, apparently from Japan.
Either the day of the launch or the day after the launch, you know, it was kind of a translation over the Japanese video of the launch.
Yeah?
And the announcer was talking about the reasons for going to Mars was to study the atmosphere and the underground structure.
And these people very intriguingly thought that might imply artificial structures.
I, in fact, think it's probably a poor translation of under, in other words, subterranean mascons and gravity variations and all that, because you can get a lot of data from just mapping the orbit in terms of underground concentrations of various kinds.
And our own spacecraft are in fact looking at those kinds of gravity anomalies to refine the map of the lower mantle structure or the upper mantle structure of Mars.
So I don't think that that translation really implied what they thought it might imply.
But again, the whole idea of the Japanese trying to go and duplicate what we've already done... I mean, why not go to Mercury or, you know, go to Titan or someplace that we haven't gone?
Why go to Mars?
Well, if I were Richard Hoagland, I'd say because they want the photographs and information that they don't think we've made public and haven't given to them either.
Well...
Let me give you another data point on, on that side of the ledger.
Otherwise, otherwise, why do it?
It's very expensive.
Look, we're at a break point.
If you're going to give me another data point for the ledger, hold it until after the break, alright?
Can do.
Alright, stay right there.
Hmm.
Why are the Japanese dudes just don't make any sense?
Anyway, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Her hair is hollow gold Her lips sweet surprise
Her hands are never cold Well, alright, back now to Richard C. Hoagland outside of
Albuquerque up in the mountains where he is a recluse.
Richard?
I am in a gorgeous mountain desert tonight.
There is a quarter moon rising over the Sandias to my east, with Jupiter hanging about five degrees to the upper right, about the two o'clock position.
The clouds are scudding across, the stars are bristling, and it is breathtaking.
Well, I only say that because, because of where I live, where I choose to live, they call me a recluse.
It's just really annoying.
Well, in the days of the Internet, it's no longer possible to be a recluse or having phone lines or fax lines.
Actually, you could look at it the exact opposite way.
Now, with the Internet and all the rest of technology, it is possible to be a recluse.
In other words, you don't physically have to go anywhere.
It all comes to you.
All comes to you, including people.
In fact, this is a really elegant segue into what I was going to do before the break.
Yesterday I had an old friend of mine who was an optical and acoustic engineer drop by who's been part of our project for several years.
He just appeared suddenly out of nowhere on his way back from the East Coast driving back to Los Angeles.
More people have stopped by this mountain since I've been here.
That's right, I'm sure they have.
It's amazing the number of people who come to visit.
Listen, I want to pass along a quick message that comes to you from everybody in the grassy know that's a chat room on AOL.
It says, on behalf of everybody in the Grassy Knoll, Richard Hoagland is under a sentence of death, life, or whatever we can give him for every answer that goes any longer than two minutes.
The Grassy Knoll chat room, okay.
Anyway, John stopped by and we were discussing Mars, this is why it's a segue, and he pointed out something very intriguing and very disturbing, which gets back to why the Japanese may not trust us.
Remember during one of the early shows when we were talking about the April 5th photos, and we were matching the fingerprints on the raw data.
That's right.
Those long, narrow lines going all the way down the 26-mile strip.
Sure.
That are kind of like the, you know, scratches on film of an old Betty Grable movie or something.
Sure.
Well, John pointed out, because he deals with this technology on a commercial basis.
That's one of the companies that he runs.
and he deals with state-of-the-art around the world with telecines and whatever and he knows the people who make these lines and CCD arrays which is the heart of Dr. Malin's camera and he pointed out to me something that frankly had not really occurred to me which was we shouldn't be seeing any lines at all because the defects in the original manufacture of these camera systems have now been so radically reduced That the difference between one pixel and the adjoining pixel is like 0.001% or something.
In other words, you wouldn't even see it.
Certainly you wouldn't see it in the raw data.
And so he got very disturbed by seeing it in the raw data and even in the finished data on some of Malin's images from other parts of Mars on Malin's own website.
And he went through a scenario with me that frankly made my hair stand on end because it's one more level of What are they really doing to us?
How are they really jerking us around?
Because it is his contention that this is a second-level set of evidence.
That the images we've seen of Cydonia are not raw data.
That they have been cooked.
And what he said could be done, and he explained to me how this could be done, and I said, well, you gotta write a paper on this, and we'll put it on the web.
He said that what they could do would be to basically take that camera, An image, a kind of a blank.
And then, because of the way the scan works, it would register those CCD imperfections much more than the background.
And then, like in Photoshop, you could layer that scan over the actual picture, which would have the effect of blurring and suppressing the real exquisite detail we'd like to see down on Mars.
Right.
And leave the impression of the CCD fingerprints Because that would be part of the process that you couldn't get rid of.
And when he went through this to me, I looked at him and I asked myself, I said, and I asked him, I said, John, there's got to be two people, more than two people in the whole country, 260 million people that know this.
To which he had a very short, very elegant answer.
He says, yes, there are.
And they're all working for NASA.
The point is, you have a very limited technical club, Art.
Of people who are in the know on something so arcane.
I keep using the term priesthood, and it's more than a metaphor.
Because when you have people all feeding at the same federal trough for very scarce dollars, the bright guys that are looking at this and saying, uh-oh, they're not going to say anything in public.
They're not going to come forward and corroborate what we're talking about right now.
Because if they do, their contracts go out the window tomorrow.
Has NASA yet made any definitive statements with regard to the Cydonia strips?
No.
No.
But what we're getting from our sources is that inside, there is the most interesting war going on.
Intellectual war.
Inside NASA?
Inside NASA.
Among the honest crowd.
Remember, I have always clearly divided NASA into two segments.
A tiny handful of suppressors.
The folks that simply don't want us to know.
And then the majority of the agencies, of the 20,000 people, who go to work, who believe in the God-American pie on the flag, and basically believe what I used to do, which is NASA's needed things to slice bread.
That it was an incredible asset to the human condition.
And they still believe that.
And those folks always thought, because they had been manipulated by the suppressors over the years, over 20 years, as documented by McDaniel in his former incarnation, Ah, to believe that Cydonia was nonsense, that we're crazy, that Cydonia is just a pile of rocks, etc, etc.
It's those people looking at even this altered data from Cydonia on the three passes in April, who according to our sources now are really at loggerheads, because they can see things on these images that are not geological, not natural, not explicable by any processes they understand, And they are absolutely terrified because it means that A, they're going to have to confront the artificial hypothesis square in the face, unintended, and B, there's a huge political problem because if they were to do this in public before November 8th, then Bill Clinton might wind up losing the chance of regaining Democratic control of the House and Senate.
The Republicans, alright, go to the other side of the fence, They don't want this to come out before November 8th because they might stand a chance of losing control of the House and Senate.
So everybody is kind of in frozen mode.
And there's going to be nothing happening until after the election.
Well, here again, Richard, this honestly is the only reason I can imagine the Japanese are spending incredible amounts of money to send a mission to Mars, and it's because they don't believe what's come from us or what's come from the Russians.
What other possible reason could there be?
I think, you know, I mean, if you want me to say the obvious, I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that it is so important that given the possibility that an earthquake in Japan in the Ring of Fire might damage the launch site, They have gone to the extraordinary lengths of putting this spacecraft in first parking orbit where it has a reasonable probability of lasting, because things in space do tend to last a long time, until they can send it to Mars.
This indicates a certain desperation to get there.
No, no, no.
It indicates a certain urgency.
In other words, we have always said, we have always said, those of us that have been on this trail now for 15 years, In fact, I said it on the back of the Monuments of Mars, the work that I wrote to describe this investigation from the beginning.
I said either these images are a complete waste of time, or this is the most important discovery in the history of mankind.
There's nothing in between.
And obviously now you know where I think we should vote.
Well, it looks like the Japanese are agreeing with us.
About time somebody agreed with the nature of what we've been discussing.
And Graham Hancock has come on board with his new book, The Mars Mystery.
And others are slowly coming around.
I mean, I saw great quotes in Graham's book from Mark Carlotto.
For years he'd been sitting on the fence.
And then he, you know, took a new look at all this data, including some of the early work that we did, through a methodology called Bayesian Statistics.
And, you know, he used to be kind of a fence-sitter.
He'd say, well, it's 50-50.
Now he's saying it's like 90-10.
Dr. Van Flandern, Tom Van Flandern.
Who is no slouch when it comes to thinking.
He's giving odds now, when he came to the University of New Mexico to do our seminar here a couple of weeks ago, he was giving odds, you better hold on to your seat on this one, of 10 to the 31 to 1 in favor of intelligence.
Rather.
10 followed by 31 zeros.
In favor of?
In favor of intelligence.
In other words, it's a lead pipe since.
There is no way to escape from the fact that Cydonia That is artificial.
Period.
End of discussion.
Let's move on to what the hell does it mean.
So the fact that the Japanese are sending a mission, and they're talking man mission,
and they're sending a mission five months early to put it in parking orbit so they absolutely, positively can get
this thing launched in space in case their launch site goes away,
is some indication maybe, finally, that somebody beside us crazies thinks this is important for the human condition.
Well, you know, look, with regard to our origins, there are fewer important questions.
Maybe whether there's life after death, and we may find that out when we know more about our origins, so it could all be answered at once.
It's an important question, and I can understand the Japanese feel that way about it.
So anyway, it was a mystery, and I had to ask you about it.
Here's another little item for you.
As you know, there were movies recently, Deep Impact, then Armageddon, And now a UPI story in front of me, dated July 14th, today.
A new NASA program to detect, track, and characterize potentially dangerous asteroids and comets that could approach Earth is being set up at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.
NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office will try to locate at least 90% ...of the estimated 2,000 asteroids and comets that approach the Earth and are larger than about two-thirds of a mile in diameter by the end of the decade.
So, now, all of a sudden, you're in a big rush, Richard, to identify at least 90% of these, which was no big deal.
What are we to imagine?
That deep impact and, um...
Similar end-of-the-world movies have driven NASA to suddenly cut loose the money to do this, or what?
Well, I have a more complicated scenario.
I began watching this whole asteroid mania, or meteor mania, or comet mania, oh, at least a year ago.
With a series of specials that appeared on every major network, simultaneously, all within a week.
TBS, CNN, NBC, the Sci-Fi Channel, you know, I'm not being exhaustive, but all of them ran, and I have taped copies in the archives, of all of these specials that hit within a week, following on print media.
The London Economist, a couple of years ago, started with a cover story, and the Economist, of all things, With a large picture of an asteroid and a spaceship floating next to it that was actually a painting by Chesley Bonestell that I, many, many years ago, helped design.
I mean, there's a long story, we won't go into that tonight, but it's like suddenly there was this gestalt, and after being ignored, after Gene Shoemaker and his work for years and years and years had been ignored, suddenly, simultaneously, on all available outlets, there was this dawning awareness culminating with a very dramatic dramatization of a news
station broadcasting a live interrupt from the Pentagon of a couple of asteroids hitting
somewhere over Scotland and England.
Yes. Airbursts. And then the call letters of the station, by the way, were W-E-N-N,
when.
And this went through, and ultimately you had a gal named Shannon something or other standing in front of New York City, describing the impacts coming across the Atlantic, and the solemn voice of the head of the Space Guard, which was supposed to be one of these asteroid warning setters, intoning on air that it wasn't Random asteroids, as the Pentagon was saying, it was pieces of the tale of Hale-Bopp, and that we were passing through the tale, which in fact does occur now every January 3rd, and that it was those pieces that were raining down and were going to cause untold havoc and destruction, and just as they cut to the reporter standing in front of New York City, there's a huge airburst and she and New York disappear in a fireball of flame and the whole thing goes dead.
So I'm looking at all this, and then of course we have the announcement of Spielberg's movie, Deep Impact, and then we have Bruce Willis doing Armageddon.
And it doesn't take a rocket scientist, Art, to say that somebody maybe knows something.
I really do agree with that.
I mean, I have come to be a believer in synchronicity.
Well, I'm a believer in leaks.
And a believer in leaks for those who are in the know.
Do you think somebody in Hollywood had a sit-down meeting with somebody way high up in government, probably even higher than the government we've elected, and they said, look, you're going to have to start doing some movies about the possibility of something from space because...
Well, we have the scare from Brian Marsden, my good friend at the Smithsonian.
Well, I mean, there's another data point, as you would like to point out, usually.
Yes.
Yeah, in other words, they said, well, here's something that may hit in whatever it was, 2048 or whatever.
And for a day or so, it was revised.
Yeah, but for a day or so, we thought maybe, maybe that's it.
That's right.
Now, remember a few weeks ago, we had a remarkable announcement, which was that if, in fact, An asteroid or comet or something is identified on a collision course prior to impact.
Right.
They're not going to tell us.
No, as a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, after that 2048 announcement, NASA sent out a memo to all organizations that get any NASA money that anybody who announces something coming at Earth Early, they want 72 hours of delay.
Anybody who announces it any earlier than that loses their budget.
And of course, given the uncertainties and the sketchy sky patrols and the lack of money up until this announcement out of JPL, most of the warning you'd probably get would be in the order of 72 hours.
Now, if people were alerted, given that most of the stuff that would get hit by is small enough that you could safely get out of the area, You'd want to give some people some warning to leave.
At least, you would think that someone would want to give somebody warning so they could leave.
In other words... Well, it's a mixed message.
Let's say it was going to hit Los Angeles.
I'm trying to pick it on New York.
Let's say it was going to hit L.A.
Okay.
Even with the great highways and so forth they have in L.A., they would probably compute, depending on how big the object was, that there would be more people killed in the panic trying to get out than might be killed by the object.
Well, given that a small object, you know, a few tens of feet across, would be the equivalent of a 30 to 50 megaton airburst, and that would effectively eliminate several million people, even in an all-out mass panic, you're not going to kill several million people, so the numbers there don't wash, but this is all the downside.
The good side is, and this is what I want to talk about tonight, I have just published on the web this very extensive 50-page hyperdimensional paper.
I know.
And I want to go through how what's in that paper and what we already know exists makes this problem, this asteroid impact or comet impact problem, moot.
This is a false problem.
You're being diverted by somebody from looking at real problems with a false problem.
And when we have more time after this Top of the Hour, I want to go through what we can do.
Alright, well I will say this much, and that is, hold on Richard, that those who have read Richard's paper have declared it to be a sound, scientific, Easy to understand, well-written paper.
It's on the web now, and if you would be so kind as to, for all the other reasons, go up to my website, which is www.artbell.com.
Scroll down to Richard Hoagland's name, jump across to the Enterprise website, and read some of it.
Let's see what you think.
I am told by those who have read it, That it is good, well-written, sound, and scientific.
So, with that, Richard C. Hoagland back when we are.
Uh, we just had an announcement today that the last six months of weather has been the hottest in the history, in the recorded history of the world.
Paul, who is in Dallas, writes, We're burning up here in Dallas, even with the window air conditioner on.
As a matter of fact, in Texas now, there are over 20 dead with the high temperatures out west here.
The temperatures are also absolutely outrageous.
Richard, do you have anything to say about this weird weather that we've been having?
I mean, that's one of the reasons I wrote this paper.
As we said on the last show we did, when we talked about the hyperdimensional physics model, for many years, since actually the late 80s, 88, 89, when Torin and I figured out the geometry of Cydonia, and then compared notes with Stan Tennon, and Stan pointed us in the direction of some of these hyperdimensional models which have existed in the mathematical literature for over a hundred years.
Right.
I have wanted to put together the meat on the bones to really, you know, put teeth into the idea that all of these weirdnesses, all of these strangenesses, all the things that people are talking about, that you talk about, that listeners call in about, that various guests talk about, all have a coherent theme and could be explained by an appropriate model.
Now, I never imagined that it would be the hyperdimensional model.
That would ultimately wind up making very specific predictions, and probably is going to be the explanation that ties all this stuff together, but that looks like where we are going.
So, while you were in Paris, back even before, I sat down and finally did what I've been threatening to do for 10 years, and I put together a very comprehensive 50 page with all the links and references, including to our earlier work, the Message of Cydonia paper, which is also on our website.
And we put that out there now to basically let everyone, both technically literate and technically non-literate alike, have at this model and look and basically critique it to see if it makes sense.
And what it does, Art, is it pulls together a lot of these disparate threads and it makes very important predictions, among others, regarding the weather, or climate, we should actually talk about climate because that's the long-term trend of weather, and geophysics.
Or Earth changes.
And what we've tried to do is to back up the hot-button issues that everybody talks about, you know, weather and earthquakes and stuff, with a lot of other data that is more subtle and more technical, but is equally critical, equally important.
And I've had a range now of feedback from physicists and astronomers, I mean, even Tom Van Flandern, who is As I said earlier in the show, an exquisite thinker, a pioneer in his own right, who does not see eye to eye with me on everything.
I pride myself that he and I respect each other enough that we can disagree.
We can agree to disagree.
He called me up and he said, first of all, I need page 12.
I'm missing page 12.
So I promised to send him page 12.
The second thing was, he says, I'm not convinced, but I'm very impressed.
And he says, damn it, it's really getting to me.
This is interesting.
Yeah, I've got to say that that's the response I've been getting, too.
I've had a lot of emails and faxes, Richard, from people who say it's a very cogent presentation there.
And you know, while they previously have not understood altogether what you were saying, they do now.
So it's quite well written, I guess.
Thank you, thank you.
And again, what I'm looking for are both technical feedback from physicists and astronomers, astrophysicists and others who will know the minutia of what we're referring to, and who will be able to read some of the links, like Whitaker's papers, that for the first time in almost a hundred years, except for Tom Bearden's publishing of them, have seen the light of day.
These are papers that literally, almost a hundred years ago, united gravity And electromagnetism in a way that everybody thought Einstein did.
But he was not the first.
Maxwell, and then later Whitaker, were actually the first to really do this.
And many other technical aspects of this.
I want technical feedback.
Okay, well listen, but for the layman.
When we begin to see all this volcanism, and there's a lot of it going on around the world right now.
There is.
The latest being the earthquake a couple hours ago at Mammoth.
And we see this incredible, profound weather change.
I saw pictures of crops earlier tonight on CNN in Texas that were burned literally to a crisp.
I mean, they simply don't exist.
They're gone.
Why?
What's going on?
Well, the Gore model, you know, Al Gore, Vice President of the United States.
He's taking his cue from the experts that are talking to him at NASA, at NOAA, various agencies like that, and they're basically saying, okay, Al, this is global warming due to fossil fuels.
All right?
The bigger view is that that may be a small component of it, but it can't be affecting the weather on Mars.
It can't be affecting the weather on Titan.
It can't be affecting the weather out on Neptune.
There is a solar system set of changes, which if you follow the literature... Okay, are you saying that there are similar changes taking place on Mars, on Titan?
Yes.
And they're cyclic.
As I point out over and over again in this paper, the hyperdimensional paper on the website, the key difference between the hyperdimensional model and all the other models is the hyperdimensional model predicts variability.
Very strong variability, both short-term and long-term.
So, you will have a trend where it will get very, very hot for a while, and then it will change and it will get very, very cold.
The El Nino, for instance, if you've been watching the NASA site, in one week they went off the Galapagos from El Nino conditions, very warm, very desert-like conditions around the Galapagos.
Right.
And in one week they went to cold water where they've had algae blooms that are the greatest they've seen in a hundred years.
One week.
Now, geophysical changes normally take place over, you know, years or decades.
Very slowly.
Or very slowly.
A characteristic signature of the hyperdimensional model is very short-term changes because this stuff is not normal thermodynamics.
It changes in the way heat is actually exchanged between atoms and weather systems and volcanoes and the mantle of the Earth And the surface and processes that are explainable by long-term processes don't apply to these processes.
So the prediction is you're going to see a lot of very rapid changes in all kinds of things that are unprecedented because the long-term model, our model says, we're entering into a period in the whole life cycle of the solar system where things are going to get a lot more interesting A lot more chaotic, a lot more changeable, and the short-term effects will be weather, hot, cold, changes in debt streams, changes in weather patterns, changes in everything!
Do you have any sense of timelines?
I mean, we are mortal beings, and I'm used to the thought that these changes occur over millions of years, not Not a couple of years.
OK, let me give you some specific data that's not in the paper, because if I put everything we know in the paper, it would have been a book.
Sure.
In fact, it will be a book.
This is going to be a good chunk of the next book, the sequel to the Monuments to Mars I'm trying to write.
OK.
So it'll be a spare time.
With a lot more reference, a lot more data.
For the last 10 years or so, there have been two major drilling projects going on, both in the northern climates, the northern polar regions, in the Greenland ice cap, And down at the South Pole.
We have been doing drilling, and the Russians have been doing drilling.
And they've gone down deep enough, you know, a mile or two, to where they've got about 200,000 years of data.
They pull up core samples?
They pull up cores of ice, and the theory here is that it snows.
And then it compacts.
And it snows.
And it compacts.
And so snow eventually turns to ice.
Right.
It eventually turns to very hard ice.
And down near the bottom, if you pick the right place to drill, That ice has not been disturbed.
It hasn't moved.
It certainly hasn't melted.
In hundreds of thousands, maybe a million years, that's some of the current models, alright?
Okay.
In the ice there are little bubbles of air trapped.
And in those little bubbles of air they can sample when they bring up the cores and slice them and put them in these cold sheds and tag them and catalog them and all that.
They can thin section, meaning they take a little saw And they saw these long cores into fine slices.
And then they can basically measure how deep that slice came from.
Which, based on certain assumptions about snowfall and compaction and all that, it translates to the number of years since that snow saw the light of day.
And so then they sampled the little air bubbles in that ice at that depth, and that tells them what the atmosphere was doing And the temperature and the climate, et cetera, at that incredibly distant point far back in time.
Going back like 200,000 years.
And what they found in trying to figure out ice ages, for instance, is that in as short as a year or five years, you can go from warm, almost tropical climate to glacial.
Overnight.
Just like you turn off a light switch.
And then it reverts.
Just as suddenly.
Just as suddenly.
And this, when they found this a couple of years ago, the data was so unbelievable that, of course, nobody believed them.
Now they have, from both poles, enough data to show that not only does this occur, that we can go from very warm to very cold, just like you turn off a light switch, and back again.
But, unlike all the glacial models that have been proposed for driving glacial cycles, the Milankovitch cycle is the most predominant one.
That it's tagged to the Earth's orbit and the way it changes ellipticity and the axis of the Earth wiggles back and forth and all that.
Right.
Which predicts that you'd have glaciation in one hemisphere.
What they're seeing in this core data from both poles is it's occurring simultaneously in both hemispheres, which none of their models can allow for.
The hyperdimensional model easily accounts for that, both in terms of both poles simultaneously and the short time span.
Because what the hyperdimensional model is basically saying is that the environment of this planet, of the entire solar system, is basically determined by the changing positions of the planets we know, predominantly Jupiter and Saturn, and now by probably a couple of guys far out there that we don't know yet, that have not been found yet, which move very slowly, and because the farther you are from the Sun, the slower a planet moves.
Mercury goes around in 88 days, Pluto takes 250 years.
The planets I'm talking about may go around in periods as long as 2,000 years or even 26,000 years for the last one that I'm thinking might be out there.
The phase relationships, the time it takes for them to change angle with each other, Yes.
To hit certain of these so-called tetrahedral hyperdimensional angles, like 120 degrees, 60 degrees, 90 degrees, is very, very long timescale.
So those would drive the huge cycles.
And the inner guys, and I include Saturn and Jupiter as the inner guys, drive much shorter cycles.
You can think of it as, you know, if you kind of imagine a big bank of heaters, all right?
And somebody's standing by a set of rheostats.
Right.
And they're turning the rheostats.
And one guy is turning them on a timescale of several days.
Up and down.
Up and down.
And another guy at the other end of the hall, you know, this huge power plant, let's say, is turning his dial every few minutes.
Back and forth.
So the big cycles are driven by the outer guys.
And then those are modulated by the much more rapid rotation around the Sun of the inner guys.
You have cycles on cycles on cycles.
And those cycles basically are changing the properties of space-time itself in this model.
Is there any way through this model for you to tell me in the near term what we have to look forward to?
More change.
In other words, the long-term trend is you're going to have more available energy, if we're correct.
And on that more energy, which has to go somewhere, the phasings of the inner guys, Jupiter, Saturn primarily, will result in shorter-term changes, and the inner inner guys, Mercury and Venus and Mars, determine even shorter cycles.
So you'll have very rapid switches, because there's a lot more energy running around in the system, and this energy doesn't just drive weather, Or the geology, you know, earthquakes and volcanoes.
It drives everything.
Yeah, well, the importance of this to us is we actually exist and live in an environment that operates, at least for the human being, on a kind of a thin line.
I mean, you can't take very many degrees of change either up or down.
And expect us to grow crops where we have been growing them to have large human populations in the coastal areas where they have been, etc, etc, etc.
So a very small change can produce a very, very big effect.
Are we about to have a very big effect?
Or, more accurately, are we having it?
We're having it, Art.
And unless we get our facts straight, and our models straight, and our physics straight, there's not a damn thing we're going to be able to do about it.
Remember, the first step in affecting your environment is understanding your environment.
If you think it's because you're dumping fossil fuels in the atmosphere, then you produce a whole bunch of laws to stop that.
And it ain't that at all.
And it doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
I have no idea why it's happening.
I just observe it is happening.
It is happening, and it's happening on a very short time frame.
And that's the key thing.
I can see that.
I can see that.
A very short time frame.
In other words, if you can project, and I can in my own mind, that we get as much change in the next two years, say, as we have had in the last two years, we're going to be in a pretty precarious position.
In the normal course of events, over the recorded history which we've known, the sun has been very constant.
In fact, back in the early parts of the century when the Smithsonian was actually measuring... Hey Richard, can you hold for a second?
Absolutely.
I'm right up against a time deadline.
Stand by.
We'll be right back.
Often imitated, never duplicated.
This is News Talk 89 WLS.
When I start talking about this sort of thing, the weather changes, the volcanism, the earthquakes and so forth,
I start getting these angry political faxes, people who hate Al Gore or hate the president, which is fine, I don't
care if they hate him.
Uh, but they...
They get angry at me for spreading the lies of those who are saying this is occurring.
Now, maybe Vice President Gore is wrong about global warming.
Who the hell knows?
But the weather obviously is changing.
And so I don't see why people are getting angry about that.
It's just a fact.
It's right in front of us.
It's occurring right now.
Well, when you see records broken, I mean, the British Meteorological Office has no hold with, you know, Gore or Clinton or whatever.
Yeah, I know it.
I know it.
And, you know, now there are other people on the other side of the aisle, politically.
I want to talk about Frances Barwood in a little while.
Yeah.
Yeah, I do too.
Who is very important in bringing to light a lot of things that are now kind of kept in the closet that will provide us solutions.
And she's obviously not on the Gore camp.
But the point is that this is an apolitical problem.
This is neither Republican or Democrat or Liberal or Independent or Libertarian.
This is a terrestrial problem.
And, given that we've been looking at data that's beyond the Earth, of outer planets and long-term time trends, you know, to ascribe this to very short-term historical usage of certain fossil fuels or whatever, is to miss the point.
That we don't know everything there is to know about astronomy and physics and geology and chemistry and all that, and that's why we fund sciences.
And what Gore is depending upon is the best input he's getting, which is not the secret black budget input, it is the mainstream, common, NASA, what-the-hell-is-going-on input.
And unless there are more models on the table to choose from, you can see the effect, you won't know the cause.
And what I'm trying to do tonight is to point at other possibilities for the cause, because unless we figure out the cause, we're not going to come up with a correct solution.
Is there a solution?
Yes, there is.
Now let us take your hyper-dimensional paper at face value and say we understand it, we believe it is so.
How can you take what you know and apply it to an actual solution?
Well, it depends on the problem.
Remember your friend Mishukaku?
Yes.
And his wonderful discussion of type 0, type 1, type 2 civilization.
Yes, sir.
Which, by the way, he borrowed from the Russians.
It was a Russian named Kardashev who actually first came up with this concept back in the 50s.
And his companion author Shlossky, I.S.
Shlossky, who wrote a book with Carl Sagan called Intelligent Life of the Universe, where the concept of civilizations being graded according to type, basically according to how much energy they control.
That's the mechanism of grading.
Okay.
And I don't know, offhand, let me see if I remember what it was.
Type 0 was you control basically, you know, enough energy to run lights on a continent.
A Type 1 controls energy on a planetary scale.
A Type 2 controls energy on a stellar scale.
And a Type 3 controls energy on a galactic scale.
Okay.
We need to go from 0 to Type 1.
I don't know.
We're almost short of it.
Alright.
How do we do that?
Ah.
This physics provides us with mechanisms to alter the behavior of parts of the environment we don't like.
In other words, what's the real cause of earthquakes?
Is it plates sliding past each other?
You know, the zipper effect that we've all been told for years and years and years.
That's what we've been told.
That's what we've been told.
So why, the other day, I think you had Standeo on, okay?
And he was talking about earthquakes at the South Pole?
Yep.
There aren't any plates in the South Pole, boys and girls.
But there is a hyper-dimensional hotspot.
Like there is on the North Pole of Saturn.
On our website, if you go and you look at this paper, you will see a composite image that I've created.
There are no plates on the South Pole?
No.
Then... how can they have earthquakes?
Exactly!
You got your finger on it.
No, I don't.
I just... I heard what you said.
That's all.
There's also increased volcanic activity in the South Pole.
Mount Erberus has been burping and doing interesting things.
Which is a major volcano down in the Antarctic.
But there are no plates that are rifting apart the South Pole.
If there were, Antarctica would not have remained a continent.
Alright?
It would have sundered like the African Rift.
The Rift Valley is tearing Africa apart?
Well, now, wait a minute.
This has got to be, then, a big challenge for geologists.
I mean, what would they say?
If you said to a geologist, there are no plates there, how can they have earthquakes?
What would the geologist say?
Well, there are no plates on the East Coast, and there are no plates under the Madras Fault.
Some of the worst earthquakes have occurred in the middle of continents.
I mean, that's just historical data.
The theory as to why you get terrible earthquakes along the Madras Fault is kind of lagging.
We've only had the theory of plate tectonics, Art, since the 1960s.
Since the Goldmark Challenger and the people at Lamont Doherty went around and, you know, drilled cores around the bottoms of most of the oceans and came up with this idea.
It's a theory, not fact.
It's a theory.
Now, it seems to explain quite a few things, but there are a lot of things about geophysics that the plate tectonic theory does not explain.
But they have, with lasers for example, measured the movement of plates against each other.
I'm not saying the plates are not moving, I'm just saying that that's not the ultimate answer to all earthquakes and all geophysical activity.
And what's going on at the South Pole right now is pretty interesting because the hyperdimensional model predicts that not only are you going to see a lot of activity, but that's probably the reason why you're getting a lot of melting.
All right.
And by the way, there is a lot of that's another story I'm following.
They're talking about the possibility now, Richard, of the whole damn thing melting.
Yep.
And if that occurred, sea levels, they say, could rise by as much as 50 feet.
That's because of the bathtub effect.
Now, 50 feet.
Now, 50 feet.
Do you know what would happen if sea levels rose 50 feet?
Why do you think I'm not in New York?
I guess you know what would occur, right?
Yes, yes.
In other words, if you take the ice and you plunk it down off the continent into the ocean... The majority of our population lives right along that... That's right.
...either one of the coasts.
That's right.
So, major planetary changes that are kind of happening because of much bigger reasons than, you know, burning coal are critical to figure out so we can do something, right?
Now, how do you do something?
That's my question.
You have to go to a Type I. You must control the energies on a planetary scale, and that means you have to think in terms of generators, in terms of grid points.
Remember, we keep talking about latitudes and longitudes in the 5th Dimensional Model.
Yes.
Well, we have relics.
We have ancient architecture scattered around this planet that our guys have now told us are basically tombs.
The pyramids.
Pyramids.
Maybe they weren't tombs.
Maybe, as our physics predicts, they are huge hyperdimensional transducers sitting atop critical points on the global grid as an effort by a previous cycle of civilization to control this energy on a planetary scale and to keep Earth habitable for people living in certain regions.
If that is true, then it should be pointed out they ain't here anymore and we are.
Because maybe the problem was bigger than even they thought.
In other words, there are escalating sets of problems.
There's the short-term stuff of climate and weather and volcanoes.
And the easiest way to get around volcanoes and earthquakes is not to live where they occur.
Alright?
We know pretty well now where it's dangerous to live.
And we know pretty well where, climate-wise, it's not good to try to maintain a civilization.
But in terms of the biggest problem of all, I mean, let's get it right on the head.
But wait a minute, let's not leave what you just said.
Okay.
Don't live where these problems occur.
Take the Ring of Fire, Richard.
That's right.
It runs all the way up South America, it runs right up the west coast of America, on up through Alaska, over to Japan, and on around.
Now, you're talking about, I don't know, maybe an eighth of the world's population, maybe more?
So you can't just blow right by that.
Don't live where the problem is.
I mean, there's a lot of people.
You know, the problem is that if you live where the problem is, and it gets too severe, you're not going to be living.
In other words, it is a self-correcting problem.
It's like living on a river delta.
Or living in an arroya.
If you live in the mountains, you put your tent in the arroya, you're not going to have a tent.
If you're not careful, you're not going to have yourself.
Well, but I would imagine that your hyper-dimensional physics model offers answers that don't require everybody moving away from these areas.
Provided the government, the structure we have established to promote the common defense, turns its energies from killing people to defending us from the very physics that makes life possible.
In other words, This requires a combination of foresight, vision, resources, and cooperation on a scale the human race is not known for.
But killing people is very important.
We have a big budget for killing people.
Well, we could have a big budget for protecting people from being killed.
What a revolutionary idea.
Isn't that?
Um...
We're up for some major changes, Art, whether we want them or not.
And one of the things that I like about your show, even though I don't agree with everybody, including Ed Dames, what Ed Dames does is he gets people off their butt to think about the unthinkable.
It goes to the core.
It's basically an emotional catch.
But it gets people thinking that it's not going to go on the way it has.
Well, one thing about Ed Dames, uh, whatever you believe, a lot of what he has predicted in the past is going on now.
Well, wouldn't it be interesting if Ed Dames' real source of information was a hyperdimensional model in some backroom computer at the NSA?
Could be.
And all he's doing is providing data that is acquired not by remote viewing, but by science.
Well, Ed Dames could be black ops.
I'm accused of it all the time.
So, He could be.
I mean, he could be getting his information, as you just described.
Maybe that's where I'm getting it.
Well, the point is that I kind of agree with the Gestalt, which is to awaken people.
To get them out of their lethargy, to look outside and see the sun shining, a blue sky, and say, oh, this is going to go on forever, because it's not.
Now, you can be a doomsayer and say there's not a damn thing we can do about it, you know.
What's that great line, you know, bend over, kiss your, you know what, goodbye?
That's right.
Or you can take the high road and say, OK, let's figure this out and let's see if there's something we can do that's intelligent.
I'd rather do that because I've got a bit of a belly now and I can't make that bend.
Well, that's my approach, too.
And remember, I didn't start out even beginning to think in this direction.
I started out 15 years ago with a few colleagues looking at possible ruins on Mars.
And where we wind up tonight is a physics which is predictive Okay, well I think you're really on to something.
Having said that, again, I press my question.
as we speak and I'm going to tell you about one now.
Okay, well I think you're really on to something.
Having said that, again, I press my question.
If we had control of this physics and this energy, what could we possibly do to avert what otherwise will
occur as a natural cycle?
All right, let me try to give you a couple of analogies, which people may or may not be familiar with, and I may have to give a little history here so the grassy knoll folks are going to freak out.
Remember the rage a few years ago about superconductivity?
Yes.
There was a physicist at the University of Texas named, I think his name was Chu, And he came up with a breakthrough, following on a couple of guys at IBM in Zurich, a so-called room temperature superconductor.
I recall.
For the folks that may have forgotten, when you put current through an ordinary wire at room temperature, it basically dissipates heat, because of resistance in the wire.
Correct.
Even a good wire, copper or silver.
That's correct.
Alright.
We use our technology, this effect, to make light bulbs.
All right.
Thomas Edison found that certain materials were very resistant, and when you push current through them, they glow.
That's right.
You put them in a vacuum tube... They produce heat as well.
They produce heat and light, and most of your light bulbs produce far more heat than they produce light.
The efficiency is what?
If you doubt that, go touch your 100-watt light bulb after it's been on for about 10 minutes.
Okay.
Many, many years ago, maybe 100 years ago, there was a... He wasn't Swedish.
He was, I think, Norwegian.
A guy named Kamalik Owen, who was a physicist in Scandinavia, who discovered by cooling mercury, just the liquid metal mercury, that if he cooled it down low enough, suddenly it lost all resistance to electricity.
Right.
It became superconductive.
Right.
Now, the quest has been, among engineers and technologists who thought this was kind of a neat thing, suppose you could make a material That's been the holy grail.
I have this, this, this, this aspect to it.
Superconductive ability at room temperature.
At somewhere close to room temperature.
That's been the holy grail.
The holy grail of a lot of technology, because you can imagine
that you could produce generators the size of, I'm going to be exaggerating here, thimbles.
Never produced enough power for an entire city.
Well, you could produce certainly generators that would be far more efficient.
Line losses in transmission lines would disappear.
It would be a revolution, yes.
At all different levels.
And in the 1980s, under the Reagan administration, when Dr. Chu at the University of Houston, I think, produced something kind of close to room temperature.
You only had to cool it with liquid nitrogen.
Right.
Which is a lot cheaper than liquid helium, which they've had to cool Previous superconductors.
It looked like we'd have maglev trains and all kinds of other things.
Sure.
And they were announcing the holy grail had been achieved, the new millennium.
Nothing ever happened, did it?
There still is no... No, it went quiet.
It went very quiet.
Well, that's a whole other show, alright?
The point is that I got very intrigued as we got into the hyperdimensional model.
Why does superconductivity exist at all?
And it turns out, right?
It turns out that it's because of hyper-dimensional physics.
Alright, now, in behalf of those in the grassy knoll, I'm going to stop you because we're at the top of the hour.
So they win.
Hold on, Richard.
When we get back, I'm gonna press Richard, because I wanna know, if we developed this physics, And you can read about it.
Richard has a paper that is worth the reading and we want scientific feedback on it on his website available through mine at www.artbell.com.
If we could, then how would we apply it to changing what seems to be occurring?
Well, we'll see.
Back now to Richard C. Hoagland, and Richard, I've got a fax I want to read, but first I want to re-ask my question one more time.
If we have mastered the energy available to us by hyperdimensional physics, how could we apply it practically to change what appears to lie ahead?
Okay, let me go back to my analogy with superconductivity.
Yes.
The reason that light bulbs shine is because of resistance in the wire.
The energy is going through the wire, it's being blocked.
It's suffering collisions, resistance, and the energy of flow is being transformed into randomness energy of heat and light.
By direct analogy, and it's really more than a metaphor, it's actually at the core of the physics, The way you prevent earthquakes is to keep the energy from dissipating and make it coherent once again.
So it flows through the earth without losses.
So it doesn't dissipate and cause problems.
Now that's a very large scale explanation for a very complex subject, but that's in essence what you have to do.
And one can start on the laboratory scale.
One can scale up to, you know, a county-sized scale.
Remember a few months ago, the Russians were offering services to the Indonesians?
To create a cyclone.
To create cyclones?
Yep.
Tom Bearden.
By the way, on our next appearance, I would like to appear with Tom Bearden.
Okay.
He is acknowledged at the top of this paper.
Tom Bearden is a U.S.
Army physicist, retired.
Who's probably done more single-handedly to resurrect the real Maxwell equations and to point us in the right direction.
And he has been claiming for years, Art, that the Russians really have a handle on this physics and have been using it primarily as a military weapon.
Now, what's remarkable is that when they made that offer to, I believe it was the Indonesians, or was it Singapore?
I forget exactly what Southeastern country it was.
Uh, Southeastern Asian country.
The only possible way that they could have offered that, to create a cyclone and to put out those fires, is if they have control of this hyper-dimensional technology, which may be known to other people as Tesla technology.
Because the name Nikola Tesla must factor very heavily in the discussion of how do you convert from theory to a practical engineering to do important things.
So, this could slowly be built to literally a planetary scale?
It may not have to be slowly.
This is where Frances Farwood comes back into the picture.
Yeah, let's talk about Frances.
Very important.
She's going to do a radio program, by the way, today.
That's right.
This morning, on KFYI, she's going to be filling in for Barry Young.
Yes, in fact, the last time she did that, I was one of her guests.
Really?
Yes.
Yes, it was a year ago.
Now here's what I find to be really, really intriguing.
She's in this race now in Arizona for... She's running to be Secretary of State.
And her opponent has gazillions of dollars.
And she has almost no dollars.
And she's actually... I'm hearing that she's ahead in the polls.
She is winning in the polls.
Incredible.
This is wondrously incredible, and it basically goes to my Jeffersonian streak, which is that most people, provided the right information, will make the right decision.
Well, this has not been the case in the past, though.
No, but remember, the physics is changing.
And this physics, by the way, affects people.
I don't want to get... I digress here from Francis, but let's get back to the consciousness application down the line in the next few minutes.
Let's stick with Frances.
The reason I am really supporting Frances, up to and including the point of showing up at a fundraising dinner next Monday night, July 20th, magic July 20th, in downtown Phoenix, at the Tempe Mission Palms Hotel Resort.
We are holding a fundraiser for the Barwood Campaign, and I am one of the speakers.
She's the other one.
We're going to provide a lot of new data, particularly in terms of the Phoenix Lights and their relationship to the hyper-dimensional model.
Remember, Frances is being creamed in the local Phoenix press by the local Republican Party because she dared, like the kid in that Dickens novel, what was the... Oliver Twist?
You know, when the little kid said, can I have some more, sir?
And she stood up and said, can I have an explanation, sir?
You know, what were these lights?
And they have creamed her for daring to ask the unthinkable question.
I know.
Simply for asking the question of doing her job for her constituents and saying, what the hell flew over this city that was two miles wide and was seen by tens of thousands of people that you don't want to talk about?
And everything in the kitchen sink has been thrown at an honest political representative who dared ask the unthinkable.
And the neatest thing is that her opponent has $200,000.
I think Frances Warchest at the last count was, what, $1,000 I think I heard tonight.
And yet she is beating her opponent in every county that I have data now for in terms of polling in Arizona.
Now this is telling you something profound.
It means that people are listening to radio.
They're listening to your show.
They're listening to the local radio shows there.
They're listening to her positions.
She has some very interesting positions on a wide range of issues.
But her core issue is really our openness in government.
It's basically, if you believe in the Constitution, if you believe in government of, by, and for people, at some point people have to count.
And Frances Barwood is a lone voice saying people should count.
That's right.
And that's why on Monday night on the 20th at the Tempe Palms, I'm going to be showing up.
It's one of these dinners where you actually, you know, they charge you some money.
And then a major percentage of that money goes to the candidate?
Sure.
And what I decided to do, because we had a major political win in terms of openness.
You and I, on this show, with a lot of help from our friends listening tonight all across the country, demonstrated that if enough people demand Allah Jefferson redress grievances from their government, even this government, something can happen, something magical.
We got the pictures, Art, by demanding NASA give them to us.
It is true.
It is true.
We did.
And what I want to do is to go to Arizona, to Phoenix, and talk to a bunch of people in the room that are going to pay $85 a couple to have dinner with us and to see some remarkable data, including the STS-80 film, which we're going to show.
Oh, you're going to show STS-80 there?
STS-80.
Really?
Um, you've been torturing us with that film now for about a year and a half.
Well, I'm kind of trying to be careful.
And we showed it at the University of New Mexico a couple weeks ago.
It blows people away.
I mean, it really blows people away.
Well, Whitley Strieber gave you a very accurate report.
Oh, yes.
He was blown away.
When he was here, you know, I took him to dinner.
Everybody is.
I was, too.
I gave him a copy and I said, go away and look at it.
Well, he did.
He went on your show and he kind of gushed.
I know.
The kind of thing to gush about.
Now, coming back to Frances, the reason it's important that people turn out and support her at this dinner is, A, she needs money.
She needs money for signs, she needs money for campaign stuff, you know, the usual stuff.
Sure.
But more important is, if you want to see a reason why she should be elected, remember, the Secretary of State of the state of Arizona is a heartbeat away from the governorship.
Right.
And the history of Arizona politics Interesting.
Oh, it's fascinating.
More governors have wound up leaving unceremoniously.
I know.
And the Secretary of State sliding into the governorship.
So, in essence, this is really, guys and gals, an election for possibly the next governor of the state of Arizona.
Now, can you imagine a person with Francis Barwood's integrity and mettle and strength of character and determination to serve being in a position of being governor of one of the 50 states and being able to say to the federal government, you open the file.
You tell me why we're doing this and this and this, why you're flying over our 7th largest city in the United States, etc, etc.
I know.
And can you understand why the powers that be will do everything, including maybe move the damn planet to keep her from being elected?
I know.
And yet at the grassroots level, the message is getting through, her integrity is getting through, And I am not making this up.
There was a poll recently, and this is how curious the politics are in Arizona.
There was a poll recently conducted in most of the major counties.
And the local media reported the Governor's numbers and the Treasurer's numbers.
They did not report the Secretary of State's numbers.
So Francis had to call a source that was privy to those numbers.
And we cannot reveal the source because that's how hatchet these politics are now.
But it turned out that the reason they weren't reporting them is because against her opponent who has $200,000 for
her $1,000 tonight, Frances is winning.
Well, maybe I believe in miracles.
I mean, if you look at the recent California elections, Uh, there's been a similar pattern and the people with the money in California lost.
They go down like a streamlined anvil.
Yeah, and that's something really new.
It's really new because people are beginning to get it.
That money does not translate to integrity or honesty or service or anything.
Now there's one more very important point.
There are two data points coming up on this very highly contested election.
The next data point for Francis is the primary, which is September 8th, I believe.
Okay, let me check my data here.
We have 57 days for the primary.
Arizona is a structured primary, meaning that only Republicans can vote for Republicans, and only Democrats can vote for Democrats.
Which means that if people want to see Francis elected, they have to get her on the ballot.
They have to actually, she has to win the primary against her Republican opponent.
Which means that people need to turn out in droves and register Republican So they can vote her into the actual race on September 8th.
Then if they want, they can switch back to whatever party that they actually want to belong to.
But it's the way the game is played, and at some level politics, unfortunately, has become a game.
Well, it's a small ray of hope.
Remember the, who had a song called, Won't Get Fooled Again, remember that?
At the very end of the song, they said, new boss, same as the old boss.
Well, Americans, I think, are starting to figure out that whichever boss from whichever party they elect, that's the way it turns out.
New boss, same as the old boss.
No change.
Let me give out a phone number here, in case people want to support us and show up at this dinner.
Okay.
It's Monday night, the 20th.
Now, remember, July 20th, we talked about on your show how... They're in one date, I know, I know.
Well, we picked this specifically.
Just to kind of, you know, give it to the you-know-who.
So the number for tickets for the Barwood Dinner is 602-704-1040.
That's 602-704-1040.
Got it.
We have a lot of listeners all over the country.
Even in New York, they're still listening.
You could fly in.
This would be a real show of support.
And for folks who can't be there, You know, if you just sent one dollar to the Barwood campaign... I know, she's like literally down to a thousand dollars of campaign money.
She's down to about a thousand bucks.
But if you just sent a dollar... It's hardly gas money.
The reason this election is so important is because Francis is the only politician to have the guts to ask the unthinkable UFO question.
Imagine if she makes it.
Imagine the signal.
Well, Richard, there's a kind of a sea change going on in the whole UFO community.
As you know, some major universities just announced they are going to study UFOs.
They have said there now appears to be enough hard evidence to justify some major universities doing studies on UFOs.
They don't conclude now that they're, you know, that they're extraterrestrial in origin, but they say There is now enough evidence.
So, you know, attitudes are changing.
Well, one of the things that I'm going to do, and I haven't even told Francis the details of this, is that we have developed some remarkable new political evidence of things that were occurring simultaneously at the other end of the country the night of the Phoenix Lights on March 13, 1997.
And for the first time, we're going to lay them out in terms of the national political scene and implications.
This reaches, it turns out, all the way to Washington.
So it will be a pretty interesting evening.
If you show up and you pay the $85 for the dinner, you get dinner plus what we're going to talk about.
If you only want to come for what we're going to talk about, that's only $50.
All right?
And about $25 of that ticket goes directly to Frances.
We're trying to maximize the impact on her campaign.
And for all those who can't be with us, if you could just send a buck, guys, You can make a tremendous difference, because she is winning the battle.
Do you have an address?
Uh, for Frances?
Yeah.
Alright, we have a linkage on our website, which is, um, uh, just go to our, you know, Enterprise Mission, or to your website, Art Bell, and then click over to us.
Her actual campaign, which is www.barwood.com, is linked on our site.
Okay.
I don't have... Well, if I go through my paper... All right, well, maybe after the bottom of the hour.
After the bottom of the hour, I will find it.
All right.
In the meantime, let me ask you about this.
Art, as I'm sure both you and Richard know, the scientific method is observe, hypothesis, test.
Richard's theory of hyperdimensional physics is an interesting hypothesis, but as of yet, it is only just that, a theory.
Richard has always been a proponent of, quote, good science, end quote, and I'm sure he does not propose that the classical scientific method be abandoned.
So the question is, how does Richard propose we test the theory, Okay, I will get to that right after I give his address, all right?
I have found the box.
Oh, you found it, okay.
I found it, yes.
All right, go ahead.
All right, send your dollar to Francis Barwood, P.O.
Box 86189.
That's P.O.
86189, that's PO Box 86189, Phoenix, Arizona, 8-4.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Yeah, I'll give it that again.
8-5-0... Alright, let's start from the top.
P.O.
Box, 8-6-1-8-9.
Yup.
Phoenix, A.Z.
That's short for Arizona.
Thank you.
85080-6189 Okay.
And you can send more than a dollar, guys.
In fact, you can send up to, what, $720, I think, is allowed by state law.
Yeah, but even if that's all you sent was a book or something?
Oh, my God.
If just the people listening were to send $1, say, this is for God, country, and honesty, the staggering impact on that election would be so profound, both psychologically and materially, that we would have a fascinating set of conversations in the weeks to come.
Well, we indeed may.
I'm really looking forward to what would happen if she got elected.
There'd be a lot of trouble in River City, and Benson would get real busy, and it'd be a fun time.
You know, the core thing that I am intrigued with Frances about, and I have been ever since we actually met, is that here is a politician who has vision.
I mean, she expanded her envelope enormously by asking that unthinkable question.
She would never imagine that UFOs would have anything to do with her lifestyle or politics or those of her neighbors or, you know, people she represented.
And she did ask that question.
And now that she's been fired at, you know, big cannons brought out, governor making fun of her, you know, the mayor talking to the tinfoil, that kind of thing.
I know.
She's stuck to her guns.
She's not shrunk from the hard questions on this.
And people are getting the message, but not enough people in time to make the primary.
So that's why she needs the help, that's why she needs people to convert to Republicans for the primary, and that's why I'm going there on the 20th to reveal some really remarkable things about those lights.
All right, good enough.
When we get back, we will ask again about the scientific method and how we apply it to hyperdimensional physics to bring it from a theory to reality to practical application.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
...
Um, alright, Richard, um, again, back, I thought this was a pretty good fax. Um...
The bottom line question was, how does Richard propose we test the theory of hyperdimensional physics so that we as scientists, this is one of them, can move forward with solid, reproducible scientific evidence for this new model?
It's an excellent question, okay.
I have composed a list of laboratory experiments going back now several years that are not very expensive that we are going to in the next several weeks be carrying out and we're going to you know list the experiments and then list the results and in the next week I am taking a special trip to discuss with a potential shall we say collaborator The laboratory set up for doing exactly what the facts are proposing.
That's on the laboratory scale.
On the larger scale, one of the neatest things that really got me, you know, into this whole thing was that we tripped over, Torin and I tripped over, many years ago, ten years ago now, in 88, 89, the astrophysical evidence that seemed to conform to the hyperdimensional model.
And that was the locations on these planets all over the solar system, including the sun, of the largest energy production centers being located at this 19.5 degrees latitude that I keep talking about over and over and over again.
That's not accidental.
That's a convergence of physical forces that are currently unmodeled by any known physics, climatology, geology, whatever.
And what we have done in the paper is we have listed very specifically some key tests that we're now urging NASA and other NASA-contracted astronomical facilities to carry out, pursuant to their announcement a couple weeks ago of this so-called new planet.
Remember the announcement that came out the day after we did our hyperdimensional show last time?
Right.
Of Susan Teraby, this young astrophysicist in Pasadena, Who set up her own corporation, the Extrasolar Research Corporation, and got a grant from NASA to basically look for planets around other stars.
Well, she found, as part of her Hubble observing time, this funny little spark of light at the end of a long streak in a dust cloud of a double star system located about 450 light years away in Taurus, called, I think, TMC1.
Taurus molecular cloud number one.
And what we've done in the paper is using Susan Terabee's discovery layout when they, I mean, they are giving her everything in the kitchen sink to verify her discovery in the next couple of months, beginning in August, all right?
They're giving her more Hubble time, they're giving her time on Keck, they're giving her time on infrared telescopes.
I mean, they're making everything available to Susan Terabee to verify that this is a planet.
By the way, this is the same agency which has not taken any more pictures of Cydonia.
Just want to put that on the record, okay?
So, one of the things we're proposing in the paper is that if Susan is looking at this object and trying to verify that it is a runaway planet, there's certain signatures in her data which will become apparent as she takes information from the various telescopes that will either support or refute the hyperdimensional model as applied to that kind of planetary system.
And so we laid out those parameters in this paper and they're there on the website.
We then extended this to astronomy observations that could be made by NASA and or their subcontractors of major objects in this solar system, particularly the giant outer planet, Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune.
What is probably not well known by most people, but they can know it if they go to the web, is that those four outer planets, the big guys, Are all glowing.
Remember the old textbook astronomy definition of a planet art?
That a planet is shown by reflected light and stars shown by internal energy?
Yes.
Well, that definition has kind of lost its meaning.
Because beginning in the 1960s, astronomers were stunned to find that the outer planets are glowing.
In the infrared, they are actually emitting more energy than they're getting from the sun.
Which kind of blurs the line between a star and a planet.
And for the last 30 years, there's been a lot of discussion in the literature as to, well, what really makes them shine?
Why are they glowing?
And there are various explanations for both, and we won't get into those tonight.
The bottom line is that I've been able to take their luminosity, and there's a set of graphs in this paper, and I've been able to plot, like the old Big Bang redshift plots that Hubble did, you know, 30 years ago, and demonstrate that for some Exquisitely inexplicable reason by any mainstream model.
All the glowing planets, including, by the way, I put the Earth-Moon system on that graph, glow on a perfectly straight line.
Their glow is only dependent on one parameter, one thing.
Their total angular momentum, which is basically spin energy, alright?
That's the spin energy of the planet plus the spin energy of any moons going around the planet.
Right.
You total those up, you put it on a graph, you know, X and Y axis, you get a beautiful straight line plot.
In fact, the tightness of the plot is better by an order of magnitude or more than Hubble's original plot of galaxies that gave us the whole Big Bang model.
Wow.
At this early stage in this set of observations.
So what I am predicting in the paper is, look, If you want to test this model, the model says that the luminosity, if they're hyper-dimensionally derived, will have one key difference with any other explanation that no one has yet tested.
The luminosities should change with time.
Both short-term changes, days, months, long-term changes, years.
And because NASA and the guys that work for NASA I believe that this stuff is cosmological, meaning it's kind of cast in concrete.
It's on a huge geological time frame.
Once they got the luminosities pegged down from the Voyager, the Pioneer missions, they never went back and looked.
No one has looked at the infrared signatures, the outputs of these planets, since the 1970s.
Because they think it's permanent.
On a geological time scale, they're constant.
Our model says, no boys and girls, they're not constant.
Go look at them next week, next month, next year, and they will have changed.
Now there's one mission.
Richard, these changes in luminosity.
Yep.
Are these changes concurrent with the changes we were talking about earlier?
Volcanism, the weather changes, and all the rest of it.
Is that what a planet goes through?
Yes.
Short answer is yes.
There's a lot of correlating to be done here, and the neat thing is we have computers and the web so we can all compare notes and do the correlating.
And one of the things that I'm looking for are a few bright research assistants, I think I've got one pegged already, to help me now flesh out the model.
There's really neat stuff to be determined here, and there's all kinds of mysteries that, if we're right, would be solved.
I will give you one classic one, and it brings us back to what we discussed at the top of the show.
Why are the Japanese interested in going to Mars?
By the way, somebody writes and wonders if you are not interested, perhaps, in defecting to Japan.
No.
No, no, okay.
No, because I can't speak the language.
And, as you know, I like speaking.
That's right, uh, and it would take you years and years and years to learn to speak, uh, in the machine gun fashion in Japanese that you're able to do it here.
Precisely.
Anyway, um, one of the key mysteries about Mars is, alright, think of this, alright?
You've got a planet which is farther away from the sun than we are, right?
Right.
So it's colder.
Colder, yes.
Okay.
It's obvious that Mars had rivers and lots of water.
Oh yes.
Had floods.
Oh yes.
Okay.
Now you got a problem.
Because in order to have floods and rivers and all that, Mars had to be warmer than it is now.
Correct.
How do you get a warmer Mars Mars has always been exactly as far from the sun as it is now.
Which, for the sake of argument, we can definitely assume.
Okay?
Well, let me take a stab at it.
That won't necessarily meet up with your hybrid dimensional physics, but the warmth of a planet is to some degree determined by the density of its atmosphere.
Very good.
And a lot of atmosphere that used to be there is not there anymore.
Very good.
So that's one possible answer.
Okay.
Now, what you need to do is you put numbers to that, and when you do the numbers, and I'm not talking about our numbers, I'm talking about numbers in the literature, it doesn't really work.
Sagan invoked what he called greenhouse gases, the same concept of Al Gore.
Yes.
There are natural greenhouse gases.
They're primarily ammonia and methane.
And in some of his early papers, Carl, in attempting to solve this really interesting puzzle, proposed that in the early billions of years of the solar system, there was a lot of methane and ammonia that was, you know, mixed in with the other gases of Mars, much more luxuriant atmosphere, and those gases would trap sunlight and then be like a blanket and keep the planet warmer and allow for liquid water and rain and oceans and all that.
Okay?
Yes.
There's only one problem.
Other guys said, but Carl, Those gases are very easily destroyed by ultraviolet, and they did calculations showing that the greenhouse gases would dissipate, be ripped apart within years, and so there'd be no more blanket and no more greenhouse.
So, what's... Oh, and there's another problem.
The standard models of the sun claim that in the early years, you know, a billion, two
billion, three billion years ago when Mars was younger and was supposed to have these
rivers, the sun itself was 30% dimmer than it is today.
You've got a compounded problem.
You have a planet far from the sun, farther than the Earth, which would be even colder
if the sun was 30% dimmer than it is now.
Now the elegant, exquisite solution to all this is that the current model for what makes
the sunshine is wrong.
It's not primarily thermonuclear fusion, it's hyperdimensional physics.
And in that model, the sun was brighter then than it is now.
Ergo, without greenhouse gas trapping, you could have rivers on Mars and a warmer Earth,
and the paleontological evidence from Earth indicates that we have been getting cooler,
and it used to be much warmer a long time ago on this planet, which all neatly fits
with the theory and is part of the testing of the model.
I'm All right.
Richard, a lot of people are going to be reading your paper on your website, and they're going to want to respond to it.
Now, you don't have email.
For some indiscernible reason, you don't have email.
Because I don't have dummy on my forehead.
You don't seem to want email.
No, no, no.
The simple problem is simple logistics, alright?
I do not have the time to go through three to five hundred emails per day.
So what I'm trying to do is set up a filtering system.
If people really want to reach me, there's a fax number on our website.
Alright?
I answer the telephone.
More often than I probably should.
So, what I'm trying to do is to screen people who really want to care enough to not electronically dash off something, but put it on a piece of paper and fax it.
Alright, let us give out at least your, uh, fax number.
Okay.
Alright.
505.
505.
771.
771.
0820.
Alright.
That at least gives, uh, somebody one way of responding to you.
Yep.
That at least gives somebody one way of responding to you.
Yep.
Okay.
Now they can send, you know, email to, well, we're actually going to change this very shortly
because it has gotten to where we want technical input and people do rely on email.
But I have not been able to handle the logistical problem of thousands of emails per week.
I mean, we're not keeping up with what we're trying to do now.
Because we do not have paid staff.
This is a very small research political effort to try to change a very big problem.
And we do not have the bucks to do that.
Okay.
Very good.
Look, I would like to begin taking calls.
Good idea.
If you wouldn't mind.
Absolutely.
You wouldn't mind?
More than wouldn't mind.
Let's do it.
All right.
Is there anything you want to sweep up before the top of the hour here?
Not much time we got.
I don't know.
About four minutes.
Okay.
Tom, the essence of good science is prediction of the turnout, right?
We have two of them on the boards tonight.
Well, the essence of good science is not necessarily predictions that turn out right.
It's predictions... It's a scientific method applied to predictions to either prove or disprove them.
Well, but if your theory is wrong, you're only going to know it if... It's still good science to prove a theory wrong.
All right, we're talking process versus results.
Yeah.
All right, I'm talking results, all right?
You'd like to have your models prove out correct.
Sure.
I mean, no one likes to spend their time doing something that doesn't work.
Well, I was just pointing out that good science can also be proving something wrong.
Yeah, we are not in disagreement.
Okay, two points.
Remember the Podlankov experiment?
No.
Antigravity over spinning superconducting... Oh, yes, of course, yes.
Of course, yes.
Thank you.
Well, hot new news tonight.
I cannot tell you my source.
It is not on NASA's official website yet, but according to an impeccable source that I talked to this afternoon, not only did NASA conduct the experiment three days ago, but they announced through a phone call to my source that it turned out to be positive.
They are getting null gravity, less gravity, over the spinning superconducting disk At the Huntsville Marshall Space Flight Center experiment.
Oh my.
That is predicted by standard theory.
Oh my.
And it's exactly in line with the hyperdimensional model.
All right, now give everybody a brief explanation of the experiment.
Okay.
It's very brief.
Several months ago there was a Finnish scientist named Pud Lenkov who announced that if he took a disc of superconducting material and spun it and put a test mass that was not electrically conductive above it That the little mass would lose weight.
Three-tenths of a percent, I think, was the number that was quoted in his paper.
A lot of people were shooting at him.
You know, there was a paper he was going to put out and then he had to withdraw it.
There was a lot of acrimonious finger-pointing and stuff on the Internet and back and forth.
NASA's people at Huntsville, at the Marshall Space Flight Center, quietly announced they were going to set up the experiment and see if he was right.
It has now been over a year, and in December and January, they reported null results.
Now they're reporting, quietly, to my source, positive results.
Now, we tried to call one of the co-experimenters tonight, and it was too late back east to get confirmation directly for airtime.
But the interesting thing, of course, is that normally when you run an experiment, you shouldn't get a null and then a positive.
But you've done something really wrong.
That's right.
That's part of the problem with the cold fusion people.
When Pons and Fleischmann first announced their remarkable experiments, people couldn't duplicate them.
Well, the hallmark of the hyperdimensional model is the things you do today, you can't do next Thursday.
But you can do them next Saturday.
Because it varies with time.
It's cyclic based on literal astronomical phasing.
Where the moon is, where the planets are, how the planet rotates, all that stuff.
It's geometric.
And the modulation being geometric, it's not going to be reproducible every single time by anybody anywhere at any latitude unless you take that into the equation.
But if in fact we have reduced gravity, then that is the first little baby step toward eventually possibly even eliminating gravity or going to a negative state in which one could Turn it around, turn the beat around, so to speak, and you would have a vehicle that would operate using gravity, virtually anti-gravity, yes?
Yeah, anti-gravity, and what my thinking is, and what we're going to talk about at the bar with dinner, is that what the public NASA guys, the honest part of the system, are now beginning to duplicate That is what the black projects have been doing very successfully for probably the last 10 or 20 years.
I can buy into that one.
I think I had one of those things fly over my head.
All right, we're going to pause here at the top of the hour.
And when we come back in those markets in which we come back, which are many, we are going to take calls.
So if you have a question for Richard Hoagland, now is a good time to pick up the phone and begin to dial.
You know the numbers.
I'm Art Bell, and this, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Alright, uh, you ready for some call?
I'm ready.
Here it comes.
Uh, wildcard line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hi.
Hello.
Hi, where are you?
I'm Jeannie from Sunrise, Florida.
That would be it, all right.
Okay.
Can I ask you before I ask Richard a question?
Sure.
I'm going to be moving to Knoxville, Tennessee the end of January.
Right.
Where would I listen to you there?
Do you know or could you find out and announce it maybe one time?
Yeah, I'll start looking at the list while you ask Richard a question.
Okay.
Would that be TNN?
No, that would be not TNN.
Okay.
That's in Nashville.
Okay.
She said Knoxville.
Yeah, Knoxville.
Anyway, go ahead, ma'am.
Okay.
I would like to ask Richard, um, I intend to send a dollar to Frances to help her, and like you said, if everybody would just do that, it wouldn't hurt anybody, and it would really help her.
Could we do the same thing for you to help with whatever you're doing?
Uh, that's awfully nice.
Uh, actually, we check with our attorneys, and yes, you may certainly do that.
Is there an address you could give us?
Yes, it's, uh, Enterprise Mission.
Enterprise Mission?
P.O.
Box.
Mm-hmm.
1130 Placitas, P-L-A-C-I-T-A-S, which in Spanish means Little Plaza, Placitas, New Mexico, 87043.
Okay.
What's the name of the town again?
It's... Placitas.
Placitas.
P-L-A-C-I-T-A-S.
Class E-L-A-C-I-T-A-S Okay
Alright, uh, if you're going to Knoxville W-N-O-X-990 on the dial
10,000 watts in Knoxville, Tennessee, we'll take care of you
Okay, that's a, um... Yep.
990.
Okay, great.
All right.
And I love your show, and... Thank you.
Keep it up.
All right, take care.
Um... Thank you.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hi.
Yes, I was wondering, uh... I can barely hear you, sir, you're gonna have to yell at us.
Where are you?
I'm in Odessa.
That's better, go ahead.
And I was wondering if, um, if earthquake scientists have taken into account the gravitational pull of surrounding planets in their estimates of when or when not an earthquake might come.
I don't think so.
Oh, no, no, no, you are forgetting Jim Berkley.
Well, no, I'm not.
I'm saying that the majority of them would not Give any credence to other planets.
They might talk about the moon.
They might, but even that conventional scientists tend to balk at.
So, there are a few rebels, like Birkeland, but most of them, the answer would be no.
You've got to admit, Richard.
Absolutely.
No, the effects we're talking about are not gravitational.
They are, well, they're hyperdimensional.
Because in higher dimensions, which is what the hyper and hyperdimensional refers to, the planets, although in three dimensions, are separated by, you know, millions and billions of miles, in hyper dimensions, they're not separated.
They are connected.
So the forces and the interconnectivity and the effects all produce results in 3D that are not explainable by current theory, which is limited.
Okay, caller?
Certainly.
I had one more question, if you don't mind.
I don't mind.
Yes.
There's mention of an alignment of all the planets.
Right.
Within the next... Within the year 2000?
I think it's May 5th of 2000.
Yes.
Writing a fictional novel about the results of that.
And wondering what your guest's opinion on... Actually, it's rather a good question.
Yes.
Richard, if...
If you do think there is something to the gravitational effects of planets on each other, then what do you imagine might occur in a complete alignment of planets, if anything at all?
No, no, no.
I did not say gravitational.
Except for the moon.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
And Kirkland.
Excuse me.
The gravity effects are not.
A hyperdimensional effect.
Exactly.
Thank you.
Alright.
In the hyperdimensional model, where energy flows losslessly, like in a superconductor.
Right.
is when the angles are 120 and 60.
Where you've got a problem is when the angles are 90 degrees and 180.
The alignment in 2000 is when they're at 180.
So the problem is that those inner planets, the ones we can see, that's the alignment that we're talking about, is 180.
The outer guys, the ones we're proposing have to exist, are coming into, I believe, a 60 degree relationship.
Which means it's probably not a good day in Mundville.
Because what happens is that the 180 or the 90s tend to make the energy dissipate.
It's like you're driving along the freeway at 60 miles an hour, and suddenly a brick wall appears in front of you.
What's going to happen?
So, I would say that it's a non-gravitational effect, but the result could be the same in that we need to kind of watch this one.
So, no definitive forecast, but something is liable to occur.
Why have the Japanese launched five months early?
What I was hinting at earlier in the show is, if there are people in the black world, the secret world of this technology, which we see on the NASA shuttle flights and all that, who know this is not theory.
They know it's fact.
And they are taking their plans accordingly.
Then, prudence would suggest that you get out of harm's way.
If you cannot put in place a system to divert harm.
You got two choices, either divert it, or get out of the way.
Hmm.
Okay, uh, very good.
Uh, we'll have to wait and see, I guess.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Yes, Richard, you mentioned that at 19.5 north and south of the equator is a special latitude.
Right.
Isn't there also such a special latitude north and south of the poles, 19.5?
No.
No, it's referenced to the equator because that's the way the geometry works, and there are higher order latitudes, like 30 degrees, 45, 60.
It's curious that HAARP, which is this huge electromagnetic installation funded by the Air Force and the Naval Research Lab, is located north of Fairbanks, just about exactly at 60 North, and just about opposite the meridian of Giza, of the Great Pyramid.
And the last show I did, I made mention that that was kind of coincidentally curious, because if you go back to Bearden's work, a la Tesla, You find that one of the ways to interact with the planet in a potential modification of these forces would be to use appropriate electromagnetic technology in ways that would attempt to interfere with the process which is changing the physics and causing the problem.
I see.
It's kind of like music theory.
Where what you want is harmonics that are pleasing.
And what we have currently are disharmonies.
We have clashing notes.
And the idea was massive electromagnetic technology.
You could change the disharmonies into harmonies which would in essence ameliorate the problem.
But you need to do it on a big scale.
and HAARP is the biggest thing going that kind of looks like that might be one of the things they're doing in
secret and not telling us.
I see. What about like Hawaii? Why is that longitude so special?
Why isn't there like Hawaii volcanoes all across the planet?
Excellent question. And we don't probably have time for a really detailed answer.
It has to do with the ideal versus the real. When you used to study physics in high school, they would give you these
classic problems.
You know, Newton's first law, second law, third law.
Then they would introduce you to a frictionless table with little hockey pucks sliding around on liquid CO2 to simulate a frictionless environment in weightlessness.
Well, it kind of approached it, but it wasn't ideal.
It was an approximation.
The problem is that planets, real worlds, are not ideal.
They're approximations.
And so, instead of having a ring of activity at 19.5, The activity tends to cluster at one point, at one longitude.
And in our epoch, in our era, that longitude is under Hawaii.
That's kind of a simple explanation.
It has to do with fluid physics in the real world.
Could the spin or the rate of the spin of the planet affect that hyperdimensional physics or energy?
The other way around.
The physics changing is affecting the spin.
And if you look in the paper on the web, There are two specific examples culled from the scientific literature that are really important evidence that we're on the right track.
One is the change of dynamical time, meaning the spin of the Earth, relative to atomic time.
Art advertises this atomic clock that resets itself and is accurate to one second in a million years.
We've added 20 seconds in the last 20 years.
That's true.
That kind of throws that one into the ash can.
There's something going on there not telling us.
Well, it's still accurate.
It just means they have corrected for whatever.
It's accurate, but it's out of step with the rotational clock, and they have to keep adding seconds to bring them back into step.
That's right.
Something is rotten in Denmark, actually, in Boulder.
Number two, gravity is changing.
What?
I was laughing.
Thank you.
Gravity is changing.
I mean, gravity is supposed to be a constant, constant, constant.
By the way, this gets to the really exciting thing about what happened to the dinosaurs.
If you look at dinosaurs, you know, skeletons?
Yes.
And you look at the size of these guys?
Right, they're big.
They're huge!
Yep.
No paleontologist now worth his salt has thought of the obvious problem, which is that you couldn't have Jurassic Park because the damn things would collapse under their own weight.
There was a very brilliant engineer named Arthur Young.
He showed me a paper he had done many, many years ago.
He was the inventor of the bell helicopter art.
Right, right.
Before he turned to other things.
He was up in Berkeley and I gave my first public presentation on the Mars data at his institute in Berkeley.
Anyway, he gave me a little paper that he'd written, oh, 20, 30 years ago, showing two curves parallel to each other.
One, all the big guys that live on Earth now.
Elephants, blue whales, big cats, lions, that kind of thing.
Right.
Rhinoceros.
Rhinoceros?
And then another line showing all the dinosaurs.
And what he was able to form were two parallel curves showing that each large animal fit on a curve, but the two curves were not sequenced to each other.
In other words, they were parallel, they were not contiguous.
Indicating to him that somehow gravity of the Earth itself had changed by a factor of a third between the time of Jurassic Park and now.
Gravity has increased by a third since the time the dinosaurs lived, and only the hyperdimensional model A predicts this, and B explains how it happened, and it goes to the heart of Tom Van Flandern's idea.
Right.
Which is a whole other show.
Right.
Alright, um, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Richard.
Hi there.
Yeah, hi, Art.
Yes, sir.
Hi, Richard.
Uh, sorry, if, um, uh, I just want to say it's a pleasure to be on the air with both of you.
Sure, where are you?
I'm calling from Chicago, Illinois.
I was wondering, Richard, this is a question for you.
Is there anything to the isogonic value that changes with the Earth's magnetic field?
Uh, North?
Do you know what I'm talking about when I say the icogonic value?
No.
Uh, it's a, it's a variation that, uh, pilots use, uh, to correct for, uh, magnetic disturbance.
You know, it's, it's along the idea that True North is, uh, Magnetic North is not really at True North.
Right, the North Magnetic Pole is located somewhere around Hutchins Bay.
as opposed to the actual inertial pole of the rotation of the earth.
Right.
And it drifts, doesn't it?
It's probably drifting, yes.
Towards the west, is it? Or is it like the...
Is there a direction that it is going towards?
It absolutely is, and I don't remember whether it's east or west, but I know that pilots need to do corrections for magnetic compasses based on reports given by the government as to how much the drift is.
I believe it's to the west.
Those have been the majority of the reports we've had, and there are some pretty anomalous Uh, moves of magnetic north.
I get faxes about it all the time.
Okay, again, this is wonderful work for correlations between those kind of things, polar wander, the, uh, the so-called Chandler wobble of the Earth's axis.
No one's doing this correlating because they don't think anything is connected.
This model says all this stuff is really connected.
We've got a meta-theory now.
We now need to put meat on the bones and do the tabulations and see if the correlations are there.
Right.
And so how do we get mainstream science to do that?
Well, I've had nibbles from Los Alamos.
That's one of the reasons that we're here in New Mexico, because we're in the center of what I call the Black Triangle.
We have three of the most incredible research labs located within 30 miles of me, alright?
Sandia, Phillips, and Los Alamos.
And you've really had nibbles, huh?
We've had nibbles since our university presentation.
Well, that's a beginning.
Alright, we're gonna break here at the bottom of the hour.
Richard C. Hoagland is here.
If you have a question, we're gonna lay into the phones as we have this half hour very heavily.
I'm Art Bell, and of course, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Well, okay.
Back we go now to Richard C. Hoagland in the beautiful mountains of New Mexico.
Richard?
Yes, sir.
Here they come.
First time caller line, your turn with Richard Hoagland.
You're on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Where are you?
I'm in North Dakota.
Okay.
Devil's Lake, North Dakota.
We're experiencing flooding here.
Yes, sir.
As a good part of the country is right now.
And I was wondering if it could be From the warming of the Earth from the inside?
I know so much oil has been taken out.
Oil is a heat barrier.
Is that possible that we're being warmed from the inside out?
Not really.
The main thing that's going on is on the surface in terms of weather.
And what drives the weather cycle on the Earth is the evaporation and then condensation of the predominant component of the Earth's surface, which is water.
I mean, they don't call this the water planet for nothing.
And three quarters of the surface is covered by oceans.
And that water, when it gets into the atmosphere, you know, when it's evaporated, has to condense somewhere eventually.
And what the... See, I'm calling this whole thing now hyperdimensional weather because it's so capricious and funny weird things are happening.
Like Dames predicted years ago the jet stream would come down to the deck.
Yep.
What you're doing is taking a current of air, which is flowing along at 150-200 miles an hour, and then you're putting a kink in it.
And so that 200 mile an hour jet stream of air suddenly touches the ground, which it's never supposed to.
Well, it's those capricious things that the hyperdimensional model says have to happen.
Because energy is building, and energy has to go somewhere.
If energy is building, it's going to evaporate more water.
That water eventually has to condense.
Somewhere.
So, the change of local weather and the change of large regional climate is, in essence, predicted by the changes in the fundamental drivers behind the whole system, which is more energy in the system.
Could you use this as a map predicting all types of global changes?
Well, in the best of all possible worlds, yes.
The problem is that even with conventional physics and good old thermodynamics, the computer models... I mean, just look at your local weather forecast.
How accurate, how far out are they?
These are infernally complex equations to solve.
But I, like you, believe that everything goes in cycles.
That's right, but we don't have enough data Good data, because our lifespan, the lifespan of science, I mean, Art said a few minutes ago, that according to the British, this is the hottest summer on record.
Well, we only had records going back, what, 100 years, maybe?
200 years?
We're talking about changes on the order of thousands of years, if not 13,000 years for the half cycle that I've been gently referring to.
So we really have no We have hard data.
Now, we have softer data.
We have things like barbs in lakes.
We have flood strata levels of like the Nile.
We have, you know, estuaries around, let's say, the big lakes in the southern part of the Soviet Union.
We have gross climatological features.
We have isotopic measurements in ice cores, but let me give you a caveat.
If we're right, if this physics really is a physics, Then all of the radioactive measurements and all of the climate data based on radioactive measurements, like isotope changes, is immediately suspect.
And let me tell you why.
A few months ago, there was a demonstration on Good Morning America.
This is referenced in the hyperdimensional paper.
And on live television, as part of a cold fusion experiment, witnessed by Michael Gillian, The experimenters stuck an isotope of uranium, U-235, I believe, in the middle of the coal fusion device.
U-235 has a half-life, meaning it takes X number of years for half the radioactivity to go away.
That half-life is four and a half billion years.
They were able, with this machine, in time-lapse photography, to demonstrate that in about an hour and a half, They got half the U-235 to go away.
I saw that.
This is incredible.
This is astonishing.
This is impossible.
This is hyperdimensional physics, which means that every single measurement of Earth's climate going back
20 years, 50 years, 1,000 years, 10,000, 50,000, 200,000, based on radioactive measurements or isotopes,
or even things like dating, like carbon-14 dating of archaeological stuff,
has to be totally rethought because radioactivity is not a constant in this physics.
I could throw everything off.
You sure could.
Well, thank you very much, guys.
Kohler, thank you.
Well observed, Richard.
It certainly could throw a kink into carbon dating.
Boy, oh boy, oh boy.
That'll make a lot of people happy, by the way.
Well, it simply means, Art, that we should be a little humble.
You know, science today is a process.
It's a journey.
It's not an end.
We haven't arrived.
And the sooner that we get off our pedestal and think that we know everything...
The sooner we start saving people's lives, property, their future, their children's future... In other words, the sooner we start acting like adults instead of kids having tantrums saying... Well, there's not a lot of humble, Richard, in science.
There's more ego than humble.
But there has to be humble, and that's why we come back to Francis Barwood.
The way we redress this is through a political process.
Remember, the science that is being funded today, by and large, is being funded by all of us with our taxes.
If we demand a certain standard, then we'll get it, but we've got to demand it.
And the only way to do that is through an intelligent political process with people of integrity.
I agree.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hi.
Well, good evening or good morning, wherever you want to say it.
Mostly morning.
All righty.
My name's Roy.
I'm up here in Fallon right now.
I'm a truck driver.
Yes, sir.
And Richard, good morning.
When I was up there, I used to run flatbed quite a lot up north.
And I ran up over into the Pasco-Kennewick area of Washington, and I ran in a compression chamber door that I'd picked up in California.
I took this up to a laser technology station up there that was three miles square.
That's three miles, four different ways.
And they said that they were setting one up there, one up over in Europe, one over in Japan, and these were all Uh, laser beams that was gonna check the gravitational pull from the, uh, planets and shifts in planets and stuff like that.
Okay.
And see if it, uh, done anything on Earth.
And if all of these matched at the same time, they showed gravitational pull.
Are you aware of this?
I'm aware of it in theory.
I didn't know exactly where the stations were or where we are with that.
Well, I thought they were blowing smoke up my you-know-what.
Because I've seen some interesting stuff as a truck driver in 10 years.
But, I mean, oh, I've got to tell y'all, this was amazing!
And the stuff they were telling me was far beyond my comprehension.
But, and I... It was just something that I wasn't sure if it was true, if they were blowing smoke up me or what, but I'll tell you what, this was amazing.
And they had these compression chambers, because I guess they have to fill them all with these different kinds of gases.
And, uh, they were saying that, uh, these gases is what shows if it goes off a line so much of a thousand millimeters seconds or whatever.
Like I said, I don't know the dynamics of it, but these, uh, chambers themselves were a heck taller than a two story house and probably as wide as two semis wrapped around each other.
I mean, these were huge and, uh, they were all built.
They had a concrete tunnels built above ground.
All the way around, and every mile they had themselves what they called pilot stations.
And, uh, on the very corners they had these huge buildings set up on each corner.
Which had prisms in them, I presume.
I never got to go into these, uh, main corners.
I delivered a compression chamber to one of the, uh, mile, uh, center buildings.
I wonder what that could be?
Well, it sounds like, it sounds like an interferometer.
Or a version of a ring gyro laser.
Where you send the beam around both directions and measure the clock times.
Right.
You know?
And then you measure the phase shift.
And yes, depending upon various atomic constants not being constant, you will get changes in the laser output at the end of the experiment.
In other words, what we have is an in crowd and an out crowd.
We have most physicists and most people thinking we have a certain science.
Then we have other guys that somehow are part of the black world that know a lot more than the honest guys do and there's no communication between the two.
Except randomly and occasionally when an honest guy will stumble across something and then he is either, you know, he's made an offer he can't refuse to come in from the cold or he's turned into an idiot and made to seem like a laughing stock because he knows things he shouldn't know and he's not part of the in crowd.
That's why we go back to Francis.
unless we have representative government that can bring these two worlds together,
we're not going to be very happy on this planet very much longer.
Alright, um...
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi.
Yes.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Richard.
Good morning.
Uh, my name is Carl, and I met with you in Phoenix last year at your meetings there in Phoenix.
Where are you, Carl, now?
I'm in Atoka, Oklahoma.
Okay.
Uh, perhaps you remember, uh, I tried to speak with you several times there, and we never got a chance to really get into some of the deeper things that I wish to cover with you.
Okay, if you say so.
It was a very crowded night.
Two thousand folks showed up.
Yeah.
I just sent a letter to Miss Barwood and asked her to forward a copy of it to you.
Okay.
It has to do with part of the extinction cycle of events that's coming.
Part of the desynchronization of the moon's orbital gravity.
Oh, I remember.
Yes, yes, we did have a brief conversation.
I remember very carefully that you had some pretty interesting stuff.
Yes.
The problem that we face, Richard, is we are out of time, and if we rely on the politicians and the status quo, they're not going to do what has to be done in time enough to do it.
So we literally face the total extinction of all the life on the Earth.
Well, that's the ultimate negative.
Let me try to ameliorate that just a bit, okay?
Okay.
If things were going on the way they are, I would agree with you.
What's going to happen, and this is going to be my one and last prediction tonight, Art, we're going to see a couple of very interesting major events.
And a lot of people are going to unfortunately get hurt.
Those events are then going to sensitize a lot of other people that, oh my God, it's not linear.
Things are happening that we can't control.
And that means that the bulk of the mainstream will begin to pay attention To where they're not even on the paper at the moment.
Alright?
At that point, the neat thing is, this is the important thing everybody should take away from this conversation this evening.
Nothing I'm discussing has to be invented.
It already exists.
It exists in the black world of national security, of physics, of the Cold War, of the development of extraordinary toys.
You know that old joke about What's the difference between boys and men?
It's just the expense of their toys?
Right.
All these toys exist.
They only have not been applied to the bigger problems because the guys with the toys don't know that they're applicable to the planet.
They've thought of them as gadgets, as war toys, as, you know, part of the Cold War.
They haven't thought yet on a scale big enough.
But the fact is that when the mainstream demands answers, The answers are waiting in the black community and it requires honest political brokers like Barwood to get at those answers quicker than we normally are going to be able to get to them.
Make sense, caller?
Yeah, you know, I spent six and a half years in prison held illegally without due process of law in this United States of America because of some things that I discovered in 1988.
I tried to have something done about that through the government and the FBI and CIA and Secret Service and some other people that I had dealt with when I was in the service.
Why were you in jail?
It has to do with the killing of a guy that ran a CIA operation in Palo Alto, California.
Were you accused of killing this guy?
No.
Not at all.
In fact, I warned him that he was down for being bumped off and he didn't listen and he is no longer with us.
So then why were you put in jail?
Due to things that were not done when I asked for an investigation.
No, no, no, no.
People are put in jail when they are convicted of a specific crime.
What were you convicted of?
I set up a sting so that they would pick me up so that I could have my day in court.
Let me repeat the question one more time.
What were you convicted of?
Pardon me?
What were you convicted of?
Um, it was not a conviction, but I was, uh, uh, thrown in for a machine gun that did not fire.
I was thrown in for a machine gun that would not fire a round.
No.
There are laws regarding the possession of machine guns.
I don't know about whether it wouldn't fire or not, but I guess I've gone as far with that as I can.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Richard.
How are you all doing tonight?
Just fine.
My name's Richard, also.
I'm calling from Humboldt County, California.
Yes, sir.
Richard, I'd like to... Well, before I get into that, Art, I just want to ask you, what do you think the jump in circulation was for this month's issue Because I know I don't usually buy it, but I thought they treated you well.
I thought it was a very good article.
I heard I was even mentioned.
Yeah, you were as a matter of fact.
That's right.
I don't know.
I'm more interested in the demographics.
In other words, you wouldn't normally presume that, say, a lot of old ladies would go and buy a penthouse, right?
So, when they get all the figures together after the month, it'll be interesting to see the demographics of their sales.
Uh-huh.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
All right, well, let's shift gears for a second here.
Richard, I'd like to ask you, what do we know about the Phoenix Lights, you know, on March 13th and subsequent nights?
And also, there was a UPN show I'm sure everybody's pretty familiar with.
Where they put forth some kind of a hologram theory.
You know what I'm talking about?
Total baloney, okay?
Alright, but his first question... We don't have a lot of time, Richard.
We are down the line from the Phoenix Lights, a long way now.
What do we know?
Well, we know that something physical appeared to tens of thousands of people.
Linda's had a lot of interviews.
I've talked at great length with De La Tosso and Mike Tanner.
Other folks, we know they were not flares, alright?
We now have an astronomer who was the former scientist, he was kind of my equivalent at CNN, who went to Phoenix, conducted his own investigation, and has come to an independent conclusion of any of us, that in fact, there was something real physical in the skies over Phoenix.
And it was obviously operating on some kind of physics that is not currently known.
Now, was it ours or was it theirs?
There is evidence in both directions.
And one of the things I'm going to present at the dinner on Monday night the 20th is evidence that Washington was in the loop and there was a lot of phone calls and a lot of reaction to whatever took place over Phoenix.
We've had a number of people over the years, Art, breaking cover and kind of revealing things that they probably shouldn't.
Right.
One of the models is that this is ours.
And some guys decided because this physics is so critical to our long-term well-being to make a demonstration so that it would be undeniable that somebody has control of this technology and that it should be brought out in the openness And the people like Barwood would be, you know, very effective in bringing it out.
So you theorize it may have been some kind of demonstration.
All right, listen, we're out of time.
The appearance in Phoenix on the 20th, is there a phone number?
There sure is.
What is it?
Want tickets?
It's 602-704-1040.
It's 602-704-1040.
602-704-1040 for the Barwood Fundraising Dinner.
All right, my friend.
As usual, it's not really goodbye, but until next time.
Or, as they say in Paris, au revoir.
I do say that.
Richard, thank you.
Thanks, Art.
Good night, my friend.
All right, that's Richard C. Hoagland, folks.
And we will be back tomorrow evening.
Got a very interesting show planned for you.
On Soviet defectors.
You're not going to want to miss it.
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