Father Malachi Martin, a Vatican-advising priest, warns of a 750% rise in demonic possessions since the 1970s, targeting children as young as six, and links the 1998 Swiss Guard triple murder to occult forces despite Vatican claims. He criticizes Pope John Paul II’s ecumenical shifts—meeting voodoo priests, Hindu rituals, and a crucifix-free Holocaust memorial—as signs of secularization eroding the Church’s supernatural foundation. By 2000, he predicts the papacy’s collapse, replaced by an underground faith, while dismissing cloning Christ as impossible due to divinity’s unknowable essence. Historical Vatican scandals—Borgia popes, Mussolini ties, and Nazi war criminal smuggling—are framed as human failings, not systemic evil, though modern secularization mirrors past corruption. Callers’ accounts of Satanic trauma and apocalyptic warnings align with his view: global chaos is confirmed by scripture and reality, demanding faith over skepticism. [Automatically generated summary]
Yes, the man we're both thinking of, his name was Alfred Kuntz, and he was a parish priest in Dane, which is a parish in Ohio, in Milwaukee, pardon me, in Wisconsin.
Yeah, from ear to ear, in his own blood, faced down into it, and with obviously various acts of desecration of his body, which are normally associated with Satanist-inflicted death.
Father Kuntz, of course, and by the way, he was a very popular parish priest with his people.
He had done exorcisms, but very, very private.
Most of us don't talk about them because they usually involve confessional material.
And Father Kuntz was a very good priest and never spoke about confessional material.
are refusing to give any of the more lurid details of the motive for the simple reason that they don't want to And there are only, I think, a couple of hundred people.
Well, no, about 700, 800 people involved.
They're certain it's not a random act of violence, somebody who wanted to steal or was caught in the act of stealing and simply flailed out.
They're convinced it wasn't a random act like that, that was a deliberately set-up thing, and that at least one person was involved in it, perhaps more.
Koons himself had just been doing radio shows with a priest friend whom we all know very much, Father Fiore, and they returned home late at night, late being about 10 o'clock in the evening.
And we know that he was alive at 10.30 because he made a telephone call or received a telephone call, I forget which.
But then the following morning at 7 o'clock, a young man who came to assist him at Mass, etc., found him lying, as I said, in his own blood with this very, very sinister mode of death etched on his body.
There's no doubt about it that it is related.
Whether it's related to his very confidential activity as a priest in regards to covens of warlocks in neighboring areas, we may never know.
We may never know.
We may never know because, number one, the police have a habit in this country that whenever there's, and it's a good habit on the whole, whenever there is any real Satanist activity of a shocking kind, they don't publish the details that indicate the Satanist connection.
Father, have you ever been concerned at that level?
Have you ever, without being specific, because I know you can't about specific exorcisms, but have you ever been concerned for yourself in the same way?
But you learn after a certain time to take that added risk and you take precautions.
But yes, surely.
And at times the menace or the threat is more patent, more obvious than at other times.
Sure.
And sometimes it's quite voluble, it's quite expressive.
You're warned.
And more than one good priest in that part of the world, especially one or two very prominent ones, got telephone calls pointing out that they will go the same way.
Oh?
Yes, and one of them actually had to hire a bodyguard, or was given a bodyguard by the police because of his prominence.
No, not as part of this, because I wasn't in any way related to this.
And as one person told me, sort of happily, because we don't belong to an umbrella organization, exorcists, in other words, those engaged in this area, because we don't belong to an umbrella organization, they can't identify every one of us and therefore pick us off.
But they do, we are picked off, all right, there's no doubt about that.
And they're not the first, Father Kuntz is not the first priest who's picked off as a priest and as somebody who blocked or interfered with or spoiled Luciferian plans.
Well, the only way I can answer that question without sort of sensationalism art is as follows, that since 1972 or three, when the group I am associated with started, it's a very quiet, discreet group, but since then, incidences and types of demonic assault have increased.
First of all, the increase has been about 750% since that time.
And this is in the northeast corner of America, the tri-state area essentially, although it takes in outlying areas too.
But then the types of possession, we have now the two phenomena that are very interesting.
We have the phenomenon of the 20-something or 30-something that comes and says, look, Father, I want such and such a job, or I wanted to get this particular woman.
I want to make this marriage.
I want this money.
I made a pact with Satan, with the devil, and I got it.
Now he won't let go of me.
This didn't occur before, in my experience, but in the limited experience I had.
And secondly, then there's the...
The last 10 years.
And then there is also the second one, second form, which is a bit off-putting, to put it mildly, that we now find the age is younger.
We find children, those that we would technically call children, six years old, who are obviously not merely obsessed, but on their way to full possession.
There was a recent case in Arkansas that I'm sure you heard of, in which a couple of young fellows decided they were going to kill their classmates and teachers and pulled a fire alarm.
Yes.
And brought rifles and lots of ammunition and simply started shooting students and teachers.
And there's much more than is reported in public by the media.
And in several states, there's an agreement, a sort of an unwritten agreement between the police and the governor.
There's an unwritten agreement that no details will ever be published without formal permission by the media or by the police of any obviously Satanist or Luciferian happening.
It's really the bestly more accurate way of describing it would be that they have indulged themselves in the worship of the goat, of the prince, of the serpent, of Satan, of Lucifer.
And they lead perfectly normal lives.
They're jewel merchants, they travel, they're prominent in their own way, but they do have this indulgence.
Father, here's a part of That I can never understand, that has never made sense to me.
And that is, if somebody were to make a pact with the devil, then obviously the implication is if the devil is there to make a pact with them, to make a deal, to make their short mortal life on earth pleasurable with money or women or travel or whatever.
Or more interesting.
Whatever it is they want, then they are aware of the presence of the devil, and they are obviously aware then of the presence of God as well, and they nevertheless make a conscious, stupid, short-term, blind choice to take what they can get in this lifetime.
And I just, to embrace one, you must embrace the other.
It is very not easy to understand, except when you talk with them, when they let their hair down and peel grapes, as we say, and when they're on their way to being cured of what they're, or healed is the proper word, you find that there's an exhilaration and a satisfaction,
which is both sensual and sexual and mental, when they really indulge in Luciferian worship.
And of course, the godly instincts in us all, the angelic in us all, because we all have something angelic and something godly, besides everything else, a lot of other negative things, that is quenched.
And you find in them a horror, a horror of anything we call sacred and holy or sacrosanct, or the idea of the sacred, of the awesome.
You see, sometimes we moderns think with a very peculiar and artificial frame of reference as regards the human soul and the human mind.
We're not talking, if we really are realistic, we're talking about the basic inclination of the human soul, the human spirit, and not about some informed concept.
And it's a frightening thing when you come across what we all know is called Bazid.
it's a frightening thing it's like that two little boys in england that were that that It's a frightening thing when you meet it because it's utter art.
Let me try and convey it to you and your listeners.
This is coast to coast a.m. was the fact that there's nothing more appalling for the mind that I have anyway than to come across a person technically considered a child with the hard glare
of consummate hatred and complete lack of the normal reactions of compassion and feeling and understanding.
And we do find that today I was going to say increasingly, but there's a certain increase amongst the age group of six, five to eight.
That's a very disturbing thing.
And it's impossible to say that it's developed by TV, by violence on TV, and that's for a business.
We don't know.
There's no official inquiry into it because many of the people who should be like, for instance, there's one section of the FBI, I think, at the Bioethical Laboratory or something, I forget the exact title of it, one of their institutes, one of their institutes in Washington, supposed To inquire into it, but they poo-poo the idea of active Satanism.
And sociologists are weary and tired out depicting the general tendency amongst the illegitimate to all sorts of perversions and deficiencies, societal and personal.
So I suppose that's part of that picture, but there's still this footprint, this touch of Satanism.
Yes, it's a smell, it's a print.
You know that some being with a hoof, to use the image, cloven hoofs, as you know, the Irish have a tradition that if you have a vision, an apparition of somebody who claims to be the Virgin Mary or Christ or a saint, always look at the feet.
This is the Irish idea that they can imitate everything except he can't hide his cloak and feet.
But it's only an Irish pishogue, as they say in Gaelic.
It's an Irish saying, but there's a lot in it.
And I know apparitions or appearances of the Virgin that took place in various parts of Europe.
And people who took photographs of the visions and apparitions could never get a picture of their feet.
I have a question for my wife, which is kind of an odd question.
I don't know why she's asking this, but I'll ask it.
And it is the following.
With respect to exorcisms, has it ever occurred, Father, that anybody listening to the tape of an exorcism, or in fact watching a videotape of an exorcism has, as a result of that, been possessed?
It has happened in our records people who looked at or saw tapes, because we make videotapes, which are very private, or audios, audio tapes of exorcisms, that they, rare cases, rare enough anyway, that they went for a pact.
And it's very exciting, I remember well, being brought into a discussion about ten years ago now in New York, in a very fashionable hotel, by people who wanted desperately to participate in a Satanist exorcism.
First of all, in Satanist rural rights, and doing everything that Satanists did.
And I had to keep on warring them, you can't do that with impunity.
Yeah, there has been, well, it says a member of the Pope's elite Swiss Guard apparently shot and killed his new commander and the official's wife Monday night, then turned the gun on himself all within Vatican walls.
A next-door neighbor found the bodies.
The Vatican spokesman said this was all done in what he called, quote, a moment of madness, end quote.
What in the world could be going on in the Vatican?
With anything like this that involves the inner life of an institution which has now centuries-old precautions against publicity and being known what really goes on there,
one has to be very, very circumspect and careful about any details released about something that they can't hide very well.
It's very hard to hide the death of two officials and the wife of one.
Remember, just two popes ago, one pope said, Paul VI was his name, he died in 1978, and I knew him very well.
He said, the smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary.
And I think you remember a book of mine published in 1996 describing a Luciferian ceremony within the precincts of the Vatican.
And remember that the Vatican, the Pope, has in his entourage, he has a chief exorcist, we all know him, Father Gabriel Amort, and there are eight employees, exorcists, that work both in Rome and Milan and Turin.
So there is a lot there.
What we've just seen, the crack has opened and we've seen one effect of it.
Put it like this, Art.
For somebody in my position, from what I know of how this institutional organization works, it is impossible that there will be a triple death by violence within the precincts of the Vatican amongst Vatican people unless it is impossible that should happen without demonic interference.
Because the thing is so, should be in principle so sacrosanct and so preserved from such activity that it might take place outside, but not inside.
So that the investigation, the details of it, the suspects, the people who would be caught, and then I have no idea what would happen in the Vatican if they came up with suspects.
If somebody is found inside in the Vatican Museum trying to make off with a valuable chalice or something, they, of course, put him in the Vatican prison, which they have, and they call in the police.
Anything which really comes from deep within and betrays the presence of the betrays that footprint again.
And this does, that's dealt with in camera and dealt with away from the prying eyes of the media and of the world.
It's impossible for them to hide everything.
And very early on, we all knew, Very early on in this incident, we all knew that something had happened, but the race in the various news media, the CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, to try and get some substance to what they were hearing was fantastic to watch.
Of course, nothing came out because the Vatican has means of choking off everything.
And then, you know, Art, there's another consideration which is painful for me anyway, because I am a Papist, as you know, in spite of the fact that I have my criticisms of the Popes I served with, and Popes I didn't serve with, and I have strong critiques of the present Holy Father, who is my Pope.
But I have strong critiques of him.
But on another plane, this is a dreadful slap in the face to John Paul II.
And you see, it does reflect on his administration.
It does reflect on the spirit he has installed for almost 20 years, as Pope.
And a lot of us have been saying all along for a long time, there is a spirit of secularization going on in John Paul II's Vatican, which makes possible such incidents as this and other incidents too, which have not come to light.
So it must be a cause of great anguish to John Paul II.
I'm certain that is so, but you're saying even the what I would think of as relatively small moves because it looked very non-secular when I was there.
But these small moves would invite in the possibility, you're saying, of what has happened?
The old Italian saying, which I can't quote any longer in the Italian, because I forget it, is that any crack in the wall and the wisp of Satan enters, the wisp of evil enters.
And there is a process of a gentle process.
The intention is ecumenical.
The intention is to be like the rest of the world.
The intention is not to be so remote.
But there has been a tendency in the pontificate of John Paul II to be so accommodating.
Let me give you one example.
No pope, believe you me, Art, no pope of the 263 popes before him would have sat down with the leader of the voodoo priests of Haiti, which he did.
And he said to them, look, Father Maurice, I think Maurice is the name of the head of the voodoo expert priest in Haiti, look, we are interested in your religion and you should be interested in our religion.
That is something which is unheard of in Catholic tradition.
Or John Paul II himself has gone to a secret island of the Malagasy Republic where he drank from the sacred water, from the sacred fountain of the God, the local God worshipped.
That is, or he sat in a phallus-shaped chair in India and had the mark of Kali put on his forehead.
His wife shot another man who shot them, committed suicide, all of this inside the walls of the Vatican, the killing, the first inside the walls of the Vatican in our living memory.
I guess there may have been 150 years ago something may have happened.
And we were talking about that before the break.
Just an incredible, incredible occurrence.
And Father Martin began to say that Pope John Paul, I think this bears repeating and trying to understand, Father, Pope John Paul has been in some way affected himself.
And during that trip, he met officially with the head of the, I think it's 15,000 voodoo priests that live in Haiti and sat down with him.
And one of the things he said was, with typical John Paul II ecumenism, look, we are interested in your doctrine and we think you should be interested in our Catholic doctrine.
I know, I know.
It leaves you speechless.
Or, for instance, in years that passed, when he went to India, John Paul II permitted a young lady in a sari to put the sign of Kali on his forehead with that red stain.
And he sat in a chair chosen by the Indian bishops, which had the phallic shape.
As you know, the phallus is worshipped in Hinduism.
These were actions of John Paul II destined to create a great fellowship and feeling.
For instance, let me give you an example which struck us all at the time and is not mentioned because people are afraid of being called anti-Semites.
John Paul II went for the first time, a pope, as a pope.
He went to the synagogue in Rome.
The head of the synagogue is a very respectable rabbi called Eliotoas, very well known to all of us.
And they sat on a stage, or a bema, as they call it in Hebrew, on two chairs, a sort of catty corner, facing themselves and facing the audience.
And in his speech, which is a very good speech, by the very good address, John Paul II said his only reference was, oh, by the way, you know our founder was of your race.
That's all the testimony to Jesus that John Paul II gave.
And when his Vatican held a special Holocaust evening, which was standing room only, it was such a grand affair with music and with a huge menorah lit by the grandchildren of people who had survived Auschwitz and Dachau and Wirkenau,
the Hitler camp, in his speech for that particular evening, which was the Holocaust evening, John Paul II consented to have the only crucifix in the hall removed in order not to offend his Jewish friends.
We consider that.
For me to remark that, it's not anti-Semitism on my part.
I've done more, I think, for Jewish Christian relations than most people alive.
That's the story you and I have never delved into, which we will add another broadcast, please God.
But the fact, we find this, no pope before John XXIII, before John Paul II, would have allowed it.
If a cardinal did that, under any of the other popes, the cardinal would be sent away to live life out in a monastery on the top of the Sierra Madre.
And look, let me make quite clear for you and for everybody listening, this man is my Pope.
He does represent Christ.
He is the vicar of Christ for me.
And if he were to speak under the conditions of infallibility, I will accept what he says.
But I am allowed, nay, I am obliged by my tradition and my faith and by previous popes to critique anybody, priest, bishop, cardinal, or pope, when I think they are in error.
He must state explicitly as follows, put it in my language, paraphrase it accurately.
What I am about to tell you is something I say as the successor of Peter, and I say it with the authority of Christ as his vicar on earth, to be held by all the faithful as a matter of profound divine Roman Catholic faith.
He must say that.
Now, John Paul II has never said that about anything, even about the ordination of men and women.
And in his famous encyclical, which has become so popular with progressive Catholics, it's called Ut unen Sint, that there may be one, he discussed and outlined the way he would like to take apart the whole doctrine of the Pope's primacy in order to suit non-Catholics.
So John Paul II has ventured out along the edges of orthodoxy in his statements and in his preaching.
But in whatever he taught, he has never yet taught error infallibly.
He's never adopted the infallible mode.
The infallible mode is something where the Pope says, I am now doing this as the head of all Catholics.
I'm doing it as the successor of Peter, and it's to be held by all the faithful under pain of mortal sin.
He's a technocrat who goes to the Vatican for a certain reason periodically.
And he says you can't mistake the hate and dislike of this man in his immediate entourage.
And so John Paul II is a pathetic figure, really.
He lives with this night and day.
There is no mercy for him.
There is no compassion for him in his normal entourage.
And he is spurned by the Patriarch of Constantinople.
And he is laughed at by the Patriarch of Moscow.
And he's let down by his cardinals and his bishops.
He is an outcast, this Pope.
And it makes me cry to know what he's going through.
And yet, he has done things which we must criticize and will criticize in all trust and belief that he is our Pope, but has made mistakes.
Now, the point in general about these killings, the murder and suicide in the Vatican is that my point was that it's in his watch this has taken place, and he knows it.
He's a responsible man.
And he knows that this has taken place during his watch, and that therefore, somehow or other, he is responsible.
Every Wednesday, as you know, when he's at tall, in good shape, he gives a little sominette from the window, from one of the windows on the fourth floor of his apartment in the Apostolic Palace, out to the crowd.
There are always a crowd on Wednesday to listen to him.
He may make some general reference which people will pick up on as a reference to this calamity.
Because, believe you me, art, ecclesiastically, papally, this is a disaster.
There's no doubt about it.
This is the sign of the times.
Yes, we will.
We have been given three signs by the Scripture and confirmed by all doctrine and teaching for almost 1,900 years.
It's very simple art.
First of all, the first sign, the major sign is this.
In his day, I mean when he's active, because he is here already, but he's not active.
But when he is active, there will be problems, human problems, confronting us as a race, as a society of nations.
Problems we can't solve.
Our best, the best and the brightest of our technocrats and scientists and theorists and leaders will not be able to solve.
And people will be so overwhelmed with gratitude and with relief that somebody has the solution which works, they will say to him, and the second sign is this, you must be divine.
And the third sign is he will say, kneel down and adore me.
From the second letter of Paul to the Thessalonians.
If you read carefully, those three signs are there.
And the fathers of the church, the early writers between 100 AD and 600 AD, they're the early writers.
The two Gregories of Nisan, Grecians, Nazians, St. Basil, all those who wrote the Origin, the fathers of the church, the basic writers, they all agreed on the character and the signs of the Antichrist appearance.
Well, Father, I am not going to suggest that our president is the Antichrist.
And there are many in my audience who do not.
Many who would.
However, is it not reasonable to look at what the president is alleged to do on a fairly regular basis and then look at the national poll of approval for this president and make certain conclusions about the changed thinking and the acceptance level of what once would have been thought of surely as
But Art, you more than me, more than most of us, should be, would be, do, I'm sure, appreciate the fact that there is now a growing gap between what the spin doctors create as the public mentality and what people are really thinking.
And only if we had, do you remember the cube, Q-U-B-E.
Well, there's a very good reason why they would never install that.
It was instantaneous and it was done by computer.
And if they put that in, and every one of the 200 and what, 40 million Americans, or roughly the adults amongst them anyway, were able to vote, I bet you the polls would be totally different about President Clinton and everything else.
Well, Arch, these things, I heard the hesitancy in your voice when you spoke about coincidence, because in these things, I do not think there is any coincidence.
There's a certain providence over things, and you and I originally were supposed to talk about two weeks ago, but we had to put that off for one reason or another.
And we happened to lapse on to tonight when these two things have come to a head and other things have come to a head in the meantime, too.
You see, the Pope has a theological commission of his own, 30 men usually.
Some of them are not Catholic.
Some of them don't even believe in God.
What?
Some of them certainly, you know, leave much to be desired as regards the practice of Catholicism as such.
And then there's that, that factor, number one.
Number two, in the immediate entourage of the Pope, if you look at the people he frequents with daily, there is no shining light that you say, gosh, that's a holy man.
That's an observant man.
That's somebody you can look to for principles, Catholic principles.
There is nobody like that.
Anybody like that who had power has had his wings shorn.
Well shorn of him.
And I remember talking to one of them recently, face to face.
Yes, Toran, who's the sort of prime minister, if you want to put it up, the Vatican Secretary of State, said quite blatantly, the danger of war breaking out there is too much.
What will happen will be that the institutional organization of the church, as distinct from the people who live the life of the church, the supernatural life of the church, that organization will cease to be the house of Christ.
I know people, not many, but I know people, and I called them up in some crisis and said, by the way, such and such is needed in such and such a place.
And they'll say, oh, well, there's help on the way.
And they talked with their angel and they live with them.
And it's extraordinary, it covers the whole gamut, from young teenage girls to grown men in responsible places in government and in science and the professions, to old people, to little children.
It runs the gamut.
Yes, there are.
Because the thrill of the demonic, there's always that.
I keep using that word because that's what tracks it, that hearing outweighs the angel.
And then we have a show, there's a series of picture films on television about the angels.
And of course it's a travesty of what an angel really is.
And angelic behavior and appointments are treated like, I don't know, in a very, very non-angelic way.
I would like to read for you, Father, something sent by Dr. Richard Boylan.
And it is on the internet worldwide right now.
Monsignor Balducci, a Vatican theologian, insider close to the Pope, has gone on national Italian television five times in recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon.
He announced that the Vatican is receiving much information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with humans from its embassies in various countries such as Mexico, Chile, Venezuela, and more.
Monsignor Balducci said that he is on a Vatican commission looking into extraterrestrial encounters and how to cope with the emerging general realization of extraterrestrial contact.
He provided the Catholic Church's analysis of extraterrestrials, emphasizing that extraterrestrial encounters, quote, are not, in capitals, demonic and are not due to psychological impairment and are not a case of entity attachment, but these encounters deserve to be studied carefully, end quote.
the subject he discusses and we're discussing now and we'll be discussing this for quite a while art especially in the life of things that will happen in the next year and we're discussing a subject which is so volatile it's really the it's really did this for you you With my ear, I'm sorry.
Pardon me, and everybody listening, please pardon me.
It's a volatile subject like natural glycerin.
It's ready to explode.
Because here's the central nub which Corrado Balducci and everybody faces is this.
Until the relevant governments and I realize I'm walking on thin ice here.
And Claude Balducci, I hope, should be careful too.
Until the relevant governments, and not merely the government of the US, but other governments, are willing to put in public the facts about what they consider extraterrestrial activity.
It is impossible to make sensible statements that make sense.
Statements that make sense.
And until they do, we're in the dark, really, as regards the general public.
We haven't got this scientifically controllable facts.
And I don't think we're going to have them very soon.
We have discussed this before, Father, but there is no question the Vatican has astronomical observatories all over the place.
One on Mount Graham, for example, that somehow the Vatican applied every bit of pressure that it had and blew by all the environmental concerns and got that facility in place.
And the question, just the good, simple, flat-out question, is what would the Vatican be looking for in space, Father?
Well, as you know, the central doctrine taught by the church is that Christ, Jesus of Nazareth, was the Son of God.
He died for all men, all rational beings.
And hitherto, in the thinking of Christianity, this has been confined to the human race.
Now, Balducci rightly points to phrases of Christ, of Jesus, that we pass over too easily.
When he appeared to them after the resurrection, he said, fear not, it is I. All power has been given to me on earth and in the skies.
And while Balducci knows, as far as he can make out from the little details, the sparse details revealed by the relevant governments,
that if there is any rational activity, technologically advanced, beings that are not in our galaxy, they're transgalactic.
But we don't know.
We have no concrete evidence.
And it's like everything else, until we get concrete evidence given to us that we can touch and see and hear and measure, we're in the dark.
But of course the Vatican is absolutely riveted by the possibility that there are rational beings, not necessarily human beings, outside in a transgalactic position, but we don't know.
So the great proviso, the great temporary proviso is to say we don't know.
We suspect, we think.
Certainly, you see, in the time of Columbus, when he set out with those three ships to go to the Indies, one of the revolts, one of the mutinies he underwent was that the sailors believed once they passed a certain point that the nails holding the ship's planks would fall apart.
That's right.
Would disintegrate.
And they also had, we now know, the medieval myths about the men in Tibet, the three-headed men and the four-headed lions and the five-footed dogs, etc., which were all mythical creatures.
And so a lot of people are inclined to say, no, all this blather, all this talk about extraterrestrials is really tricks of the demon.
No, no, no, no, that's not rational thinking at all.
So I hold on this, because it's a very ominous statement.
If the relevant government, I stress this fact, the relevant government were to submit to worldwide inspection and knowledge any facts proving the existence of rational beings, not necessarily humans, of rational beings outside our galaxy.
This would be a crisis for the Roman Catholic Church like no other crisis in its 2,000-year history.
When Columbus did get to the Indies, namely get to the New World, and he brought back the news and things had to go slowly in those days.
Carrier pigeons couldn't do it and they had no telegraphs.
But when they came back to Europe, that there had been millions, but millions of human beings who never heard of the gospel, who never heard of Calvary, or of Jesus, or of the church, theologians were stumped in the beginning.
And they started a discussion, which is still going on, by the way, which in Latin was always called De Salute Gensium about the salvation of the peoples outside the church, outside of Europe, which was considered to be totally Christianized.
St. Thomas himself, for instance, says that it's possible that Homo Silvestris, a man living in a forest in Dalmatia, possibly hadn't heard of the church, but all human beings have heard of the church.
And suddenly they find out there have been millions, perhaps billions of human beings that never heard, never heard about the church and were never baptized.
The crisis was huge in theology and started a whole new thought in Christian theology, which is still going on.
Now, if we find out there are beings, not necessarily human again, technologically advanced, beyond where we are.
And he wrote a book called The God Part of the Brain.
And it is his contention that mortal beings, we are here for 70, 80, 90, 100 years, not long, that our brain, in defense of the entire concept of death,
the brain actually developed in its own defense, what he calls the God part of the brain, which compels those who are very much afraid of death to believe in something, To believe in anything.
That even when you go and you examine the tribes that have not been touched by humanity, if it isn't God, they do worship something, and it is his contention that it is a natural part of evolution.
And I can, so that's about the best I can do in explaining his position, but it was well articulated, and I would assume you would put it into the category you were just describing.
Yes, anyway, being a Roman Catholic, I firmly believe that without divine grace, which is not at all produced by anything human, by any endocrinological development, or by any neurological development in man,
in a human being, but it's totally gratuitous from beyond the stars and beyond this visible cosmos, and straight from the heart of God to people he has said he loves so much that he sent his son to be with them, to be one of them.
I believe that is the Roman Catholic position on the whole point.
And while there's no doubt about it, that if one adopts the theory of evolution to some degree, it's so rickety nowadays that one is inclined to sort of stand back from it, like a bag of bones that suddenly is collapsing.
But really between you and me and the Holy Ghost Spirit.
But if in the evolutionary mentality as a hypothesis, because it's only that and still remains that, then I suppose we could talk about neurological and endocrinological developments from primitive man down to the present moment.
But there is that chasm, art, that chasm between me and the divinity, which is utterly unknowable and awesome.
And I can never have it and I desire it.
I see its reflection in the beauty of this world, of beautiful people and beautiful things, but I can't have it of myself.
I have no power.
I must depend on this God bending down in the midnight of my human misery and saying, I lift you up to my level because I love you.
That's the Christian message.
And doubtless there have been evolutionary trends also sometimes.
I come from Ireland, you know, and sometimes I must say, because I can speak, being Irish, I can say the following.
Some of the people I used to know in Ireland certainly seem to have missed out on the evolution of the plane to a certain degree.
But nobody else but an Irishman could say that about Irish people.
But the position she occupied during his life, and the position she's occupied amongst Catholics anyway since then, and in early Christianity until the Lutheran Revolution, or revolt, I should say, really, in the 16th century, was that through her you reached her son.
It's very easy once you know the mother to get the son to do things.
But that he is the sole redemptor.
There's no doubt about that.
unidentified
Okay, now you're saying if you get to know the mother, then you'll get to know him.
So are you saying that if we pray to Mary, Mary and the saints can answer our prayers?
You see, Catholics hold that every apostle, until the death of the last apostle, there was a continual revelation going on, which is not confined to books.
It went into tradition, to actions, to customs started by the apostles all over the then-known world.
And those, you see, the Bible nowhere says that the Bible is the only source of revelation.
It's an extraordinary, embarrassing thing to fling at non-Catholics.
But the Bible nowhere says I am the sole source of revelation.
Nowhere says it.
That was an assumption made by the Protestant revolt.
And He is the only friend we have in time and in eternity.
He is the only one who finally can give me light and gives me consolation and finally gives me immortal life, which I yearn for and I lust after, but I can't get by my own self.
Well, there's one difficulty in the way, Art, and it's this, for me anyway.
It's this, that even twins, identical twins, with all these similarities and common instincts, they're distinct personalities.
They're always distinct.
And there's a marvelous study of twins that were separated at birth and then brought together in adult life, which brings out this very clearly, that there is a common, they have a common heredity.
They marry the same type of woman.
They're bald in the same way.
Their pubic hair is the same.
Their height and birth and their inclination.
But they have distinct personalities.
They're very distinct personae.
And the wife of one twin couldn't be attached to the, couldn't be attached to his twin.
But is it not possible to imagine that with the miracles that Christ performed, if they get intact DNA, they will discover a difference in the DNA of Christ?
And that's why there's a general closure, really lip-sealing, lip-zipping amongst responsible churchmen in Rome and elsewhere about transgalactic beings.
But they won't take refuge in saying that it's demonic playthings.
It's the devil playing with our senses to deceive us.
Yes, anyway, it's not sensible because, by the way, in the whole history of demonology and Luciferian interference with human beings, there's no parallel to that.
Except unless you go to Goethe's Faust, in which you have his descriptions of the witch's Sabbath on their broom.
By the way, we're 79% water, and the rest is love.
There's also one down water.
unidentified
Well, I'm not going to call to talk about Bible or beliefs.
I know where you stand on that, and I've accepted Christ in my heart, and I know when I die, I know where I'm going.
So what I wanted to ask you, sir, was have you ever considered that UFOs might be the mythology of the 20th century?
Seems how each civilization, when it's reached its pinnacle before it fell, it always had created its belief system around its technology.
And since our God is our technology, wouldn't it be, you know, just sane to assume that we would create gods and its messengers in the image of technology?
But in that I put the Star Trek series, you know, and a lot of the science fiction, that it is a creative mythology based on our technological advances, yes, as a mythology.
But Jeepers, Weepers, pardon my language art, what a poor mythology compared to Greek and Roman and Indian mythology.
You know, the richness of that mythology, the lessons for human beings, even in the myths of the Greek gods and legends, there are such lessons about human moral behavior and human behavior as such.
But in Star Trek or in such productions, it's sort of a dry dust mythology that has none of the old moralizing, and I love the word moralizing, and I love moralizing tales.
It has none of that, and therefore I haven't got much attraction to it, but I agree with you.
and there will be the general judgment and the particular judgment and the condemnation of the wicked to hell and the leading of the just to heaven forever.
Arnt, you and your guest's comments are pointing out what most true Christians know to be the inherent blasphemous nature of the Catholic religion.
Your guest himself made a blasphemous statement when he said that Jesus was, quote, bled like a pig, and quote, excuse me, and he better ask God to excuse him too.
Jesus was bled like a lamb.
Anyone at all familiar with the scripture knows I think he should make an on-air apology.
I'd like to ask the Father, given that God is so incomprehensible, if he doesn't think that each culture will come up with a name and a mythology and a symbol set around God by its own cultural metaphors, and thus any other culture that we meet will know God, but by a different name?
Yes, if I understand the question, here's what I would say to it.
Charles, that's the name?
Yes.
That he is unknowable in himself, but he has taken trouble to reveal himself.
And as Jesus said, who sees me Sees the Father.
Who knows me knows the Father.
And that's the only way we can know God, but we can know Him in Christ.
And whatever variation each culture puts on that, beginning with the color of the skin, because there are black Christs, there are yellow Christs, statues, and there are Occidental-looking Christs and Chinese-looking Christs, you know, that cultural variation is only a human way of talking about one and the same person.
And when we finally look on his face, we will find that he's unique to himself.
unidentified
Well, of course, when you explain something to a child, you use metaphor because you're explaining something beyond his comprehension.
I think that the tendency, in spite of the Congress, by the way, because we were a calcitrant of our Congress, I think that the whole concept of national sovereignty is changing and that laws will have to be passed,
will have to be observed and accepted in states not made by Americans, but made by greater bodies to which we will be bound by treaty and pact and agreement.
Number one.
Number two, you and I have made various references tonight to the Y2K problem.
Apparently, according to authorities just published, the two departments of government in the United States who will not be ready for Y2K are the Department of Defense and the Department of Transport.
But it does mean, and then some big authority, not Greenspan, but somebody of that stature, has suggested that we should declare three months worldwide recession because we won't be ready for it.
We simply will not have converted the chip to cope with anything beyond 2,000.
You know, you can suspect all sorts of conspiracies.
But de facto, de facto, we are now walking into an era when anything can be disrupted.
I must tell you one thing, Arta Proposed, if I could take just one minute.
I went to the emporium about two months ago to buy something, buy some food.
And on that day, down at the emporium here on Third Avenue, where I go, and it's in the basement, the lines were all crowded, and all the women were, the tellers were dispensing their money, and etc., people were walking out with their food.
And there were lines, and there always are lines.
And suddenly, the electricity died out, and no computer worked.
And we stood in mute silence, power-locked.
We couldn't get our money.
They couldn't take our money.
We couldn't get our food.
We didn't want to go.
We had already taken our supplies in the usual little carts they give us.
But it was a symbol of what can happen when the juice stops.
The only thing is that Revelation, which we're supposed to accept, we do accept, says that Christ himself, the historical figure, Christ, will return in his entirety on the last day for the final judgment.
And not a clone, but himself with that body and that blood and that divinity, which we receive in Holy Communion.
I mean, we meet on a night when there is news of an exorcist brutally murdered, when there's news of murders and suicides in the Vatican and things that are just virtually unthinkable.
Father, would you be surprised to know that I have a very good friend in Australia who watches the U.S. Naval satellite maps of ocean temperatures very carefully.
And six months or even better before this El Niño began to build, he told us it was coming.
Now, the El Nino has just started to lessen.
And I just spoke with him, and he said, guess what?
There's off the coast of Japan now, even bigger heating going on, indicating to him that there may be a larger El Nino building for this coming year.
Well, the Prophecy of Fatima, without going into my background in this matter, the Prophecy of Fatima is not a pleasant document to read.
It's not pleasant news.
It implies, it doesn't make any sense unless we accept that there will be or that there is in progress a wholesale apostasy amongst clerics and laity in the Catholic Church,
that the institutional organization of the Roman Catholic Church, that is the organization of parishes, dioceses, archbishops and bishops and cardinals and the Roman bureaucracies and the chanceries throughout the world, unless that is totally disrupted and rendered null and void, the third secret makes no sense.
And number two, the other salient characteristic about it is that it means intense suffering.
The third secret, Lucia, Sister Lucia, who's still alive, the only surviving child of the three Fatima children, she's 89 now, she lives in Coimbra, in the Carmelite convent in Spain.
She was prevailed upon by her bishop to write down the third secret.
Our Lady conveyed two secrets to the children.
We know the first two, but the third secret, Lucia, since she was the only survivor, refused to tell anybody.
And finally the bishop said, look, we're all getting on in age, sister, write it down, and we'll send it over to the Pope.
And she said, well, it's not destined for the Pope, it's destined for the people.
But the Pope will tell the people about it.
So she wrote it down, and this is in the 30s.
And then in the 50s, it was conveyed over to Rome to Pius XII, Pope Pius XII, and Cardinal Ottaviani, who was the head of the Holy Office of that time.
They put it away because Lucia said that it shouldn't be opened except by the Pope in 1960, because the thing would be clear then.
So it was opened by John XXIII in February 1960, and he proceeded to say that it wasn't true.
It was unreliable.
And the children didn't know what they were talking about.
And Lucia didn't, because when she got this supposed secret from the Virgin, she was illiterate.
She was under 10 years old.
So she couldn't know what she was talking about.
And John 23, then in his opening speech at the Vatican Council on October 11, 1962, referred contemptuously to the three children as prophets of doom and said, we today, we don't have anything to do with these prophets of doom because we are in a different age.
And the other thing I have to say is you've spoken very early on, you spoke about a secularizing tendency in the Vatican.
And I'm just wondering if you're not looking at the past through sepia-colored glasses, leaving aside the Borgia popes and all that.
I mean, in the last hundred years, you know, there was a sort of, up until very recently, kind of a cozy relationship with the church in Italy and the mafia.
You had the relationship with the Vatican and Mussolini that established the Vatican State in 1929.
And then you had the fact of the Vatican accused of running Nazi war criminals on their way through to South America.
Well, it's something which we hope will never happen again.
There's no excuse for it at all.
None whatever.
And I'm the first person to say it was wrong, wrong, wrong.
And there's no excuse for it.
It was a bad mistake by churchmen bent ideologically and not with any love of Christ.
So there's no excuse for that.
Now, secularization I'm talking about, though, is where the behavior of Vatican officials doesn't differ from the behavior of the Dalai Lama or the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Protestant monks of Taisi.
And indeed, there is a great assimilation taking place.
And that is secularization.
Besides, the Pope appearing on the same stage as Bob Dylan, you know, okay, but it's a funny situation.
It's a very nice thing for a poor old guy like me to hear.
You must admit, Art.
unidentified
Indeed.
Well, now to my question.
I consider myself to be something of a seeker, and in recent years I've kind of stumbled across something I've read through another scholar by the name of Zachariah Sitchin.
And he became such a center of attention for me that I went to the trouble of trying to learn some of these languages myself so I could read it in the original.
And some of the things that I found reminded me a lot of what I was seeing in the Old Testament.
And am I practicing something that is akin to apostasy here?
Well, I see the story of Abraham being told, but in a different way, Father Abraham.
And I see it being told from the viewpoint of someone who is being visited by something that may or may not be of this earth and treating With it as if it is a living thing.
And it causes me concern on the one hand, but on the other hand, as it is something that is written in clay and something that is carried forward, I really don't see Mr. Splitfoot in it.
This might be a frivolous question considering what's been talked about tonight, but you were, obviously you performed exorcisms and things like that, and I was just wondering if it was possible for an evil person to do the same to someone who believes in God.
It's possible for a person who's possessed to what?
unidentified
you know perform something akin to an exorcism on someone who does believe in God in other words where Yeah, in the way that you would exorcise an evil spirit from a person, could someone do the same, take a good spirit from a person?
Yes, it makes sense in the sense that I know of cases where somebody who everybody would have said lived with a good spirit, was with the angels, was with the heavenly, was successfully turned around.
Yes, we can by prayer and by fasting and by having the grace of God in us.
If we partake of the sacraments, we'll get that sanctifying grace and we can mitigate it.
The only restriction is that today there is no real coagulated community of believers.
Instead, now we're broken up into small communities and it's usually one-on-one.
That's our isolation today.
Because in every country you can find, there are three components.
There's the government, which is very important today in every country.
Secondly, there's the business community.
And thirdly, then there's a gaggle of organizations, NGOs, non-governmental organizations, everything from Mothers Against Drunk Driving over to the International Fireman's Association and the various churches, including the Roman Catholic Church.
And we're all in the public square competing for men's attention.
No longer is the church or a church or the church no longer has any privileged position in our modern public square.
In fact, in the Constitution of the United States, whatever about Canada, the Supreme Court has said twice in the last four years that anybody who enters the public square in America with a religious ideology, he has no place.
It has no place in the public square.
It's a private matter.
So that's the difference.
But we can make a difference by having the grace of God and by our prayer and fasting.
We can cast out devils.
We can win, we can merit for other people.
We can convert them by our prayers.
Because that's what Jesus died for.
That's why we have the saints and the angels.
But today is an uphill battle.
unidentified
I sure hope that we can, Father Martin, but it seems that there is such an insidious force against us.
Well, you're asking me then, that's a very concrete question, really.
And it's what has happened in the last 35, 40 years.
What I think has happened, the Roman Catholic Church, of which I'm a priest, and a faithful priest, and I say it deliberately so that you'd know I'm not in any sense rebelling against it.
I'm a part of it, and I say my Mass every morning and do the usual things a priest does.
The fact is, I think that once the churchmen of the Roman Catholic Church drifted into grave error after the Vatican Council, I think Christ said, okay, you want to go that way?
And therefore we have this devastation of Catholic marriages, this devastation of Catholic religious orders, the major ones above all, Jesuits, Dominicans, Carmelites, Holy Ghost Fathers, all devastated.
And the lack of cohesive theological thinking and philosophical thinking in the church is glaring and discouraging.
And by the way, millions, the Catholic Church now reckons it's a billion-plus membership, but millions of those have been led by the nose out of Catholicism into an apostasy and they don't know it.
But that happened in England from 1529 on.
millions of English men and English women lived and died in grave error because of the leadership of a few men.
Here's something that I suppose we ought to consider, Father.
Dear Art, I am writing in advance of Malachi Martin's scheduled appearance on Tuesday morning to convey some ideas to you on the subject of foreboding, to relate these ideas to statements that Father Martin made during his last appearance on your program and ask that you consider raising them with him as they pertain to his experience at some point during the upcoming Tuesday morning appearance.
I think in cases when people have a dark sense of foreboding that something terrible is going to happen to the earth or society as a whole, it's often because they are projecting scenarios occurring within their own psyches and personal lives out onto that world, seeing them unfold out there where they truly are not, rather than within the realm of their own personal lives where they are actually occurring.
If you read a sober journal like the Wall Street Journal, for instance, I mean, my God, you know, all right, they're not pessimists, but their realism is very stark.
or take the take the normal big newspapers in the magazines they there are some pollyannish people you know everything's the best for We have a man called Carl Keating who writes rapturously about the new evangelization.
There's nothing going on at all in the Catholic Church, except decadence.
We have those people like Carl Keating, and we've got to put up with them because they feel happy that way.
They do attack the rest of us.
But no, I take that criticism very, very well.
We do incline to project things.
But in this case, it's co-confirmed by millions of others that I do not feel it's subjective on my part.
The last time, this is sort of a totally off-the-track question, but the last time the Pope was traveling, there was rather extensive coverage of it on CNN.
I always said the old Mass and never said anything else.
But the New Mass will get me down anyway.
But I'll tell you, without prolonging it too much, next time you're in prayer, ask our Lord Jesus to enlighten you and to give you strength and guidance, as he has up to this.
I would be intent on what I do now as regards the worship of Jesus, who is God, and the cultivation of his angels, and seeking out some good priest, a good priest, and talking to him.
I got a lot of mail, but we're getting through it all.
And you see, it's unfair if people can't write at least a short letter explaining what's on their minds, provided they all realize that sometimes it takes a long time to get out answers, even short answers.
But there's a desire to answer every problem or every question put.
And everybody, please do understand that there's a lot of correspondence that is coming his way, so you will get an answer, but it will take time, as all good things do.
East of the Rockies, you're on there with Father Malachi Martin.
Father, two questions, one from the past and one from the present.
Yes.
During the time St. Paul was talking about, people were talking about the end times.
Yes, people were selling all their property and giving everything away.
And he said, That's very bad.
You should stand up right now.
That's right.
And can't that be used right now by the powers to be to make people give up?
And in terms of the end times, wasn't in Acts Peter coming out and saying that the end times are now, and he was talking about great portents in the earth.
And then in Acts 3, he says that Christ must make his dwelling in heaven until all time, all the earth is made anew, meaning that all earth is made under Christianity.