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May 1, 1998 - Art Bell

02:43:23

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Spy Satellites - Ron Regehr - Derrel Sims

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01:01:37

derrel sims

24:19

ron regehr

38:55

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Arkbell, Summer in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, across all these many prolific kind zones stretching from the Hawaiian and Eastern Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, South, into South America, north, and the country of the Pole and worldwide on the old internet.
		This is 20 a.m.
		I'm more celebrated here.
		Well, I would like to welcome the newcomer to WSPD WSPD in the Spirit of Florida.
		Glad to have you on board.
		1450 AM 15,000 big Cuban battling one.
		Radio stations in Florida have an unusual thing to contend with, and that is the bearded one in Cuba.
		And they don't exactly conform to Geneva Convention rules with regard to broadcast, and they do all kinds of things.
		So our FCC responds by allowing many stations to run more power at night than they do during the day.
		Sort of an answer to El Castro.
		Battling White House over executive privilege, Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr said today, the president must give way and turn over evidence unless national security is at stake.
		The president isn't doing that yet.
		And this could presumably escalate into some sort of very serious constitutional crisis as occurred with President Nixon.
		We'll see.
		The president today said technology was vital to the U.S. economic boom.
		Computer technology has revolutionized every aspect of American industry.
		Having said that, the Justice Department continues to go after Microsoft.
unidentified		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eldridge Cleaver, remember his name?
		Former Black Panther leader?
		Dead at the age of 62, no cause given.
		Very interestingly, he was one of the original Black Panthers.
		Toward the end, though, he had denounced all of that and joined the Republican Party.
		Astronomers have detected a small galaxy.
		Check this out, folks.
		12.3 billion light years from Earth.
		The most distant object ever seen.
		And now, Esther M. Hugh, a University of Hawaii astronomer, said we've already got some candidate objects that are even farther away.
		We are now looking about 94% of the distance back to the Big Bang.
		And you know how I love this subject?
		94% of the way back to the Big Bang.
		Now think about that a little bit.
		When they finally get to 100%, what is it that you expect to lie just beyond the first moment of the Big Bang?
		Boy, is that going to say a lot.
		I mean, if they get out there and there's nothing more that can be identified, and we're almost there, and there's not one single item out there retrieving, returning any light, reflectivity whatsoever, then we can begin thinking, or I would begin thinking, that, yes, there was nothing, no time, no space, truly nothing.
		And then there was something, as in, let there be light.
		All right, the theoretical physicist can't even explain it.
		They don't have a clue.
		Nobody has a clue.
		We don't know what happened before there was something.
		But on the other hand, what if they get back to the first item in the Big Bang that reflects light and they determine they are there and then go beyond and find something?
		Who knows what?
		Something.
		Then you've got to begin to conclude that our Big Bang was not the only one.
		And things may go on endlessly.
		Or there is a third possibility.
		And that is that finally they get to the edge of look back time, the first item that got blown outward in the Big Bang.
		And they have a big advance, and they manage to look back even further.
		And they see familiar star systems.
		In other words, they would in effect, it would be like looking with the telescope around the world, to the other side, and then past and back at yourself, if you follow me.
		Meaning that we would then know that everything is in one grand circle.
		Fascinating concept to contemplate, and we are getting close, so it's worth thinking about.
		An eighth grader who took plastic bags filled with homemade napalm, that's a new one, homemade napalm, to school has been suspended for five days, according to the school principal.
		the student who was not identified brought the incendiary jelly to school tuesday in order to give some to a friend A napalm in school.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		apparently uh...
		he learned how to make the napalm on the internet So I guess there are you go into a lot of schools today and you'll see no knives, no guns.
		Now they're going to have to say no napalm, no weapons of mass destruction.
		Or maybe they could just simply show a little napalm container or a small nuclear device with a red line around it, a line through it, you know.
		From the category of isn't it ironic, a couple of entries from the other side of the pond.
		The average cost of rehabilitating a seal after the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska was, are you prepared, $80,000.
		That's right.
		The average cost of rehabilitating a seal after the Exxon Valdez broke up, dumped, was $80,000.
		That is one expensive seal.
		At a special ceremony, two of the most expensively saved animals were released back into the wild, the water, amid cheers and applause from onlookers.
		One minute later, cameras caught them both being devoured by a killer whale.
		So in other words, we nursed these poor, wretched, oil-covered things back to health, cleaned them up at a cost of at least $80,000, probably over $100,000 each, released them, the crowd applauded, free Willie, and then Willie and his buddy went down the dullage of a killer whale.
		$200,000.
		And then this one is priceless.
		I'm telling you, priceless.
		A woman came home to find her husband in the kitchen, shaking frantically, with what looked like a wire running from his waist toward the electric kettle.
		My God, the poor man, she thought, was being electrocuted, intending to jolt him away from the deadly current, killing her husband.
unidentified		Remember, he was shaking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She took a gigantic plank of wood and gave him a couple of good whacks.
		Boom, boom, breaking his arm in two places.
		A shame considering that he had merely been listening to his Walkman and bopping to a tune that she couldn't hear.
unidentified		laughs
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see how you can laugh at other people's ill situations?
		Even I can now laugh at my old super glue situation.
		And then last, and perhaps best, a terrorist who didn't pay enough postage on a letter bomb.
		Yep, yep, yep, you guessed it.
		It came back to the sender and the fool opened it and he blew his own face off.
		He blew his own face off.
		Now that's pretty dumb.
		That's pretty dumb.
		I mean, you wouldn't recognize your own package.
		Or perhaps you packaged it so enticingly that yours was gone, you had forgotten it, and you received it.
		Oh, what a nice-looking package.
		Let's open this up.
		Boom.
		Maybe there is some sort of cosmic justice, I suppose, in the world.
		Next hour, we're going to talk with Ronald.
		I'm going to have to learn to say his last name.
		Regier.
		Ronald Regeer and Daryl Sims.
		It's going to be a double treat.
		Now, Ronald Regeer is a very interesting fellow.
		He designed a lot of our spy satellites, and Ronald knows what a lot of our spy satellites have seen.
		Ronald might even know whether we have designed spy satellites to look for objects that traverse our atmosphere that, according to the Air Force now, mind you, are certainly not a threat to our national security.
		At least not a public one.
		Ah, well.
		Open lines in a moment.
unidentified		Open lines in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is one more little ironic story here, and it is as follows.
		Two animal rights protesters were protesting the cruelty of sending pigs to a slaughterhouse in Bonn, Germany.
		You know, standing there with their signs and protesting what was about to happen to these poor little piglets, suddenly, unexpectedly, the pigs, all 2,000 of them, escaped through a broken fence and stampeded, trampling the two advocates with the signs to death.
		To death.
		The pigs just ran right over them like they weren't even there.
		Their signs.
		Signs were crushed, splintered.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		How are you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio on.
unidentified		Turn it down right now, Kate.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now he turned it up first.
unidentified		Boy, Art, am I glad that you're here.
unidentified		You know, I want to tell you something, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I've been listening to you for about a year now.
unidentified		And I want to say that I enjoy your show so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't find that you're slipping into slow madness.
unidentified		Well, I sent you some email, and I question how you can possibly go day to day and maintain your sanity with what's presented to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, you have to consider the possibility that I have not.
unidentified		Well, I think you have because you really seem cognizant every time.
		I mean, you're so knowledgeable when people confront you with these various topics that you present on your program.
		Something I did want to say, I am a Christian, and I speak not for the entire Christian realm.
		However, I think there's plenty of room for someone such as yourself because you are a truth seeker.
		And my wife, she questions whether I'm going to be saved now because, you know, I come home and I talk to her.
		I listen to you all night at work.
		I come home and talk to her and tell her about the things I've heard on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would a God that you and I understand punish us for seeking, for thinking, for examining, for reaching, for trying to figure things out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would a God punish?
unidentified		I really don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
unidentified		You know, one point I do want to bring to you and question you, see what your views are.
unidentified		Are you familiar with a gentleman named Jack Van Empe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, Jack at times has professed his love for the Catholic faith, and I don't want to single him out, but you're going to have Father Malachi on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am Monday, yeah.
unidentified		Yes, and I'm looking forward to that.
		But Jack has often said that our present Pope, whom I admire greatly, is part of a regime.
		There are politics involved, as you probably agree, in the Vatican.
		And okay, well, see, he says that I've heard him state on his program that this particular Pope that we have now is like the dying breed of the true Catholic faith.
		And that the I wish I could document this and point you directly to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that may be so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't think that Father Malachi Martin would disagree with that.
unidentified		Well, that there are going to be evil forces, quote unquote, coming into the Catholic realm that are going to perpetuate the theory that in the last days, quote unquote, once again, Satan is going to use demons in the guise of aliens, similar to what you were discussing last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Until we know what we really are dealing with, anything's possible, and that's one of the possibilities that they are evil spirits or good spirits or both.
unidentified		But you've had other folks say, hey, look, there's tangible physical evidence as opposed to the spiritual evidence.
		I'll tell you, I'm an Art Bell fan.
		I enjoy your show.
		What bugs me the most, and I know you have other folks that want to talk, but here in Jackson, Michigan, our WKHM AM station is constantly interfered with by other more powerful stations.
		And I have to try to run out to my truck and listen to you in the truck sometimes because I can't hear you on this radio in here.
		And I'll tell you, I get into these conversations.
		It's just fascinating to me.
		My computer crashed today, so I think lightning took it out, so I can't get on the web and look at you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm so sorry.
unidentified		But you just hang in there, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's extremely sad.
		When a computer dies, it's like losing a member of the family.
		Sometimes it's even more serious than that.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, it's terrible because I just bought it in February.
unidentified		It's a beautiful 266 Pentium, and I'm telling you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the symptoms?
unidentified		All it does is the light blinks.
		The keyboard won't show me any responses.
		I can't get anything on the monitor.
		I'm calling tech support in the morning because I had to come to work, and I couldn't play with it, but I'm not that savvy when it comes to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds serious.
unidentified		It's scary, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I've got two blinking lights down on the tower.
unidentified		That's all it's doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very bad.
unidentified		All right, sir.
unidentified		Well, thanks very much for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I hope to get a hold of you another time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You take care.
		Yeah, that's very sad.
		Well, of course, I just went through that, as you all know.
		It's like a loss of a member of your family, and depending on the computer, sometimes even more serious.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		What's going on?
		Why don't you ask me?
		Please don't listen to me.
		Don't say that you love me.
		Just tell me how you love me.
		Don't say that you love me.
		Don't say that you love me.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, could they be messing with me again?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I now have my guests, but you know what?
		We had to go to alternate phone numbers because something is wrong with both of my guests' telephones.
		Now, what are we going to discuss?
		We're going to discuss spy satellites.
		We have a man who designed them, Ronald Regeer, with us.
		That is, if the phone lines hold up.
		And with him, Daryl Sims, at the forefront of implant and abduction research.
		And I'm telling you, I started calling my guests about 10 minutes before the hour.
		Busy signals.
		I finally concluded these two fellows were talking to each other and not mindful of the time.
		And so I went back into open lines again, kept trying to reach them.
		Even now, it was very difficult.
		We finally got through using alternate numbers.
		One had to call the other and say, look, my phone's out dead.
		Phone company's going to have to come fix it tomorrow.
		So I'm at an alternate number and he had to get the message.
		It was a mess.
		So maybe somebody is not all that pleased with tonight's topic.
		Too bad, huh?
		We'll try and do it anyway.
unidentified		We'll try and do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We are going to now see if we can do this program or if the authorities that be are not going to allow us to do so.
		First, Ronald Regeer, let me tell you a little bit about him.
		While employed by Douglas Aircraft, Ron was responsible for detailing the electrical interface between the S-4B and the S-2 and S-1 stages of the Apollo moon rocket and for developing the requirements for the first U.S. space station, Skylab, while working closely with the astronauts, NASA headquarters, and Douglas designers.
		Since that time, Ron has been an integral part of the team responsible for developing the specifications for our nation's spy satellites.
		But not only the spy satellite itself, also the ground data processing software and interfaces with other elements of the program.
		During this time, Ron was frequently called upon to assist government specialists in their evaluations of various highly classified programs.
		Now, Darrell Sims.
		Darrell Sims also has a military intelligence background.
		Darrell brings to the table with him three years as a senior military police officer.
		Darrell was a Korean National Police Officer as well as under the status of forces agreement while he was in Korea for a year.
		Volunteer for our country in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War.
		Taken out of the Army and quietly placed in the CIA for two years during his tour.
		Darrell worked as a part of the military contingent bodyguard to Vice President Agnew when he came to Korea in the three flying Bordello, so-called, helicopters, as Darrell calls them.
		He was escort and guard to Richard Helms, then director of CIA.
		And Darrell has a top secret clearance.
		Now, both of these gentlemen are going to spill their guts on the program tonight.
		Right, guys?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good to me.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ready?
		Now, am I lying or am I telling the truth when I say that both of your telephones had problems, sudden problems?
		Ron, why don't we start with you?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my telephone was, I've had it now for three years, and this is the first time ever it was out.
		And I wouldn't have known it was out unless I was getting frustrated.
		I thought, gee, I wouldn't run a radio program this way.
		I'd call and see if things were going okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and so I was doing desperately.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I picked up the line, it was dead on my end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead on your end.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Dead on my end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead on your end.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's when I sent you the facts.
unidentified		There's something going on here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Daryl, what about your phone?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		My phone, as you know, the last time I was on your program, there was a stoppage of a complete break-in on our phone service during the middle of your program.
		And I thought, well, that's probably just one of those things.
		And so today, after the announcement came that I was going to be on the program with Ron tonight, my phone, in fact, it still has the loudest static you've ever heard on it, and no one can get through to it.
		And it's rather curious because this other one, the second phone line here is now having to be used.
		And this is just really, really strange.
		The phone company announced they would take care of everything, but they would only do it tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, getting a busy signal on both numbers, I calculated the two of you were strategizing for tonight, talking to each other, not mindful of the time.
		And I just figured I'd try you at the bottom of the hour.
		I don't believe in that many coincidences, and this is somewhat suspicious, I must say.
		So if we are interrupted tonight With the phone setup we've got right now, it will go beyond suspicion.
		Now, do either one of you doubt that, of course, up on the website, you know, it's known you were coming on tonight.
		Would they really do something like that and screw with us in that way?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I believe they would.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of any reason why they want us to talk about this.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		One of the reasons that it would be, I think, probably difficult for whomever in the intelligence community to allow this to go on is because nothing's going to be said that's illegal or wrong.
		In fact, it's been exposed quite well before by Ron and legally.
		The problem is that you can take legal channels, as he will prove tonight, and actually show the existence of UFOs with the spy satellites.
		This type of program can actually occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am, of course, very, very curious about spy satellites in general.
		Ron, your phone is not too great on that end.
		It's a little bit what I would call mushy.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, is this better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Bell, that's better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you do?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I took the mouthpiece off and put it back on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, it's better.
		Definitely better.
		Good.
		Look, the rumor is that we have satellites, either in polar orbits or geosynchronous orbits of some sort, that can literally take photographs that would define something as closely as reading a license plate.
		That is the popular myth.
		Is it true?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew it.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		It's true about the polar orbits or the elliptical orbit satellites.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		It's not true about the geosynchronous orbit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, they would be, what, 22,300 miles or something up there?
		Correct.
		But the polar orbiters, of course, are much lower orbits, and they really can get that kind of resolution, huh?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me define some of the terms here so that the listeners will really know what we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And if that's okay with you.
		Resolution is a term used to describe the quality of the image that we can get.
		And it would be defined as the minimum distance between any two objects that we see.
		And the smaller that distance, the higher the resolution.
		Now, in 1978, intelligence forces defined five degrees of resolution.
		The first would be detection.
		That is, can you locate a target?
		Can you see something?
		The second one would be general identification.
		That's when you determine a particular type of a target, like an airplane versus a boat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Then type three would be precise identification.
		That's discrimination within a target type.
		Then the fourth would be a description.
		Can you describe what it is, size, dimensions, configuration, layout, components, things like that?
		And the fifth being the one that really concerns us, that's technical intelligence.
		That's to determine specific characteristics and performance capabilities of your targets.
		Now back in 78, we didn't have the degree of sophistication of sensors that we do now.
		Yet we were talking for a technical intelligence down to four tenths of an inch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four tenths of an inch.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Four tenths of an inch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Less than a half an inch.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Based on that ability then, what would you estimate we have now?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I would say we've probably better that by an order of magnitude.
		The problem we get into is we can't always do that, obviously.
		This is a photographic image and then we have Well, you have a lot.
		I don't know about all your listeners, but driven out across the desert and you can see the shimmer above the roadway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, those are air turbules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And they're sort of the same thing as the layers that we get up in the sky that block the radar and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And those wreck havoc with our sensors.
		They just really tear them up.
		The other thing is our viewing angle.
		Everybody's looked at a sunrise or a sunset and marveled at how beautiful that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		But you're looking through about 25 miles of atmosphere, and that's why the sun doesn't burn your eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		You look at the same sun at high noon, and you can really hurt yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Severe retinal damage possible.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Going through a thin atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The same thing is true of these satellites.
		When you're looking straight down, excellent, excellent vision.
		As we get further and further out, we get signals called attenuated or soaked up, if you will, by the atmosphere.
		So we lose a lot of it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many spy satellites do you think we have in orbit of one sort or another?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The number's classified.
		Let's just say if we have a constellation of three satellites in geosynchronous orbit, we could have a stereo picture of anywhere on the Earth's surface at any time.
		We probably want a backup or two in case one of those would fail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And then we go into the low Earth orbiters or the elliptical orbit satellites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There must be a lot of those.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's quite a few of those.
		And they're short-lived.
		See, the geosynchronous orbit satellites, they're fine up there.
		They'll last for, oh, maybe many years before they run out of fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		Maybe a decade.
		And you're right.
		Lower ones have shorter lives, but they're still pretty good.
		And I'm going now by the NOAA satellites.
		I take those images down directly from satellite every day.
		And they last quite a number of years, but they've got to be replaced every now and then.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And they've got now where the shuttle can go up and replenish the consumables, the propellants that they use for attitude control.
		And that's their biggest problem right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you a little interesting story.
		Sure.
		Maybe you can enlighten me.
		The NOAA satellite, the newest, latest, greatest that I think we've got up there at the moment in our constellation, is NOAA 14.
		And NOAA 14, on the first day or two when it went up, sent back some of the most remarkable photographs I've ever seen.
		For example, I was able to look down at the city of San Diego and actually resolve buildings.
		Buildings, mind you.
		Now, I went on the air and I raved about that.
		This was like the first day they turned it on after they had launched it.
		Within 24 hours, all of a sudden, believe me, that kind of resolution was gone, gone, and all we could see was the continental outline and the ocean and so forth and so on.
		But no buildings, nothing resolved like that.
		And I know damn well that they actually reduced the resolution.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.
unidentified		Although, it's difficult to do.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		It's easier to do when you've got the signal coming down to a ground station.
		but it's not something that's impossible to do.
		It's to change the thresholds of the sensors, and that's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And so it's capable of a lot more resolution than it's giving.
		Now, for the purpose of weather forecasting, of course, you don't need to see buildings.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I found it interesting that before they got it, in quotes, adjusted, I could see buildings.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they've got some remarkable imaging now.
		It's fantastic.
		Really fun.
		If you accession the net, you can see a lot of the early around the Korean missile crisis, the Cuban Missile Crisis.
		You can see a lot of those images now.
		And some of those are just spectacular.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's get down to the nuts and bolts.
		I don't know how much you can and can't talk about.
		I know something about the KH series of satellites that we have, the spy satellites.
		And I know a very little.
		But the bottom line is ufologists for a long, long time have been imagining that these satellites would be able to see these things traversing our atmosphere.
		Now, we have very reliable reports of things flitting through our atmosphere at tremendous rates of speed, up to 24,000, 25,000 miles an hour.
		And we have a precious little proof.
		But they have been observed, and a lot of people have thought, well, you know, wouldn't a satellite see something like that occasionally?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And the answer is yes.
		UFOlogists aren't the only ones.
		The Soviet Union was really afraid of that, very much concerned about our spy satellites and other sensors detecting UFOs and mistaking them for a Soviet attack.
		And that was a real threat, so much so that Pravda, let's see if I've got it here.
		Let's see, yeah, Pravda in November 16, 1979, was concerned about this and says, what would have happened is through a coincidence of circumstances, the error, this is talking about where we went on to DEF CON 3 back in 1979, air been complicated by certain atmospheric or magnetic phenomena or the appearance of an unidentified flying object in the process of discovering error, and they went on to talk about that.
		So the Soviet Union was afraid of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		One, of course, is frequently presented with an explanation that certain photographs cannot be shown because it would reveal the capability of the satellites that took the photograph.
		In other words, otherwise they might release something like that, even to the public, except that the enemy, whoever that is today, would then know what we can do.
		Is that right?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
		That's one of the big problems we have.
		As Gerald alluded to at the top of the show, everything I've got, I've gotten from public sources.
		Freedom of Information Act requests, magazine articles, different publications.
		And it helps to know where to look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but see, that's how the KGB does their work, too.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are going to continue in a moment with my two guests, the phone company allowing us.
		And we are going to continue to talk about spy satellites and what they see.
		Ronald Regeer is one guest, and Daryl Sims is my other guest.
		I think you will find this a very instructive night.
		And before it's over, we'll give away all kinds of Department of Defense secrets, and my guests will be in jail.
		Just kidding.
		I guess I'd be too, wouldn't I?
		So we'll try and sort of walk the line.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		Coast AM from May
		1st, 1998.
		Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		What an interesting, interesting night.
		I went to contact my guests, and I have two of them.
		Ronald Regier, who is an expert on satellite spy satellites, helped design a lot of them.
		And Darryl Sims, who was CIA Central Intelligence Agency.
		You will hear how the program develops.
		We were ostensibly here to talk about spy satellites and what they see regarding what are called fast walkers, things traversing our atmosphere at incredible speeds.
		We know they exist.
		They have been seen.
		They have been documented.
		But have they been seen by spy satellites?
		Well, that was the fairly interesting question that we were going to explore at 11 o'clock.
		But strangely, both of my guests' phones were dead.
		D-E-A-D, dead.
		They had assumed Russia's room temperature.
		You think somebody doesn't want this program to happen tonight?
		We just made one additional phone change during the last break, and we're going to try it again here in a moment.
		Back to Ronald Regeer and Daryl Sims.
		Gentlemen, are you here?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		We are here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wonderful.
		Maybe we can get something done here.
		All right.
		Subject spy satellites.
		Question.
		Do they see UFOs, objects that traverse our atmosphere at tremendous rates of speed, or even objects that are in low Earth orbit?
		What do we see?
		Ronald, what can you tell us?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		We've seen quite a few things, as a matter of fact.
		One of the first sightings I investigated was I attempted to give correlation between the satellite data and the Iranian UFO event.
		And that was back in 1976.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What Iranian UFO?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Back in 1976, the Iran-Tehran, they spotted a large UFO.
		This UFO was, they scrambled Iranian F-4s.
		Iranian Air Force scrambled F-4s to close in on the object.
		It was sighted from the ground.
		The pilots, when they got close enough, they were able to lock on with it with their AIM-9 missiles.
		Now, an AIM-9 is an infrared missile.
		And so that triggered me to think, well, if that AIM-9 can detect it, then that's a low-intensity target.
		We could probably see it with our spy satellite.
		So I did some calculations, and sure enough, with that type of a signal, we could detect that.
		So then I started trying to find out just precisely what we had at the time that could see it.
		And so several feet of information act requests later, I got what is called an individual target event database, or an itty-bitty, as we call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An itty-bitty?
unidentified		It's an itty-bitty.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		In the itty-bitty, there was, at the precise time of the Iranian UFO, there was a sighting in the itty bitty, where we recorded the sighting.
		So that was the first correlation I had of one of our spy satellites actually getting correlation on the ground of an event.
		I could compare the two.
		And so that was a definite hit.
		And later on, I got, remember the big Colorado UFO where they reported as a forest fire and called the local sheriff and said, you got a forest fire over here between Durango and Pueblo, I believe it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And so the sheriff set out a helicopter because that's a remote area and they could destroy a lot of forest area before they could get anybody there.
		And while he was on the way there, got another phone call back and says, never mind.
		It's over here.
		Gave him another location.
		Then later on came back and says, never mind, there's nothing there.
		Don't worry about it.
		Well, a short time after that, within, I think it was two weeks, three weeks, I didn't know about the Colorado thing.
		I got a message from one of our analysts that said, gee, here's something you might be interested in.
		We had a moving forest fire in Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A moving forest fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How fast was this forest fire moving?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The analyst didn't say.
		They just said it was at this time it was here and at this time it was here.
		So that was, and later on I found out about the UFO that correlated to that so-called forest fire.
		And I've got that one written up that's in my book.
		It talks about that a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your book?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've got a book called How to Build a $125 Million Dollar UFO Detector.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which, of course, refers to spy satellites, I presume.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is such a terribly sensitive subject that I'm frankly surprised you can find ways to talk about it at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, even if your sources are legitimately gathered through FOIA requests, whatever other sources you might have, since you worked and designed these satellites, They would be really concerned with your coming on a program like this.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I got called in one time by security.
		It was interesting.
		A UFO researcher back east sent me a Twix, excuse me, a fax.
		And the facts showed an event that came in from deep space that our satellite had detected.
		And what he sent me was a page out of a classified report.
		I happened to know the report because I'd written the report.
		And so I took the security, explaining to them that we had a leak somewhere in the system.
		If I could get this fax of a secret page, then the secret page was getting out somewhere.
		So I talked with the assigned investigator, and we talked for several hours.
		And I finally said, Carl, what are you doing?
		He says, well, I'm filling out your security violation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a security violation.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I said, excuse me.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I come and tell you about a leak, and you're going to write me up for a security violation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No good turn going unpunished.
unidentified		That's right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And he said, well, you failed to safeguard this material.
		And I says, wait a minute.
		Now, I got it in effect at about 10 o'clock in the evening.
		I took it to bed with me and literally slept on it and brought it to you first thing this morning.
		Now, I don't know of any government office that's opened at 10 o'clock at night.
		So I safeguarded.
		I know it was not compromised.
		So anyway, I was somewhat disgusted, and I walked out of the interview.
		The next morning when I came into work, some of the guards says, Ron, what did you do?
		And I thought, uh-oh, they're really going to drop the axe on me today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, it turns out Carl was terminated that previous day after I left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was terminated?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		He was terminated.
		I went and talked to the head of security and asked, what's going on?
		And he says, nothing.
		Go back to work.
		I don't know if they attempted to plug the leak.
		It was never talked about.
		And I've learned in this business, Daryl can probably confirm this.
		If you don't think you might not like the answer, don't ask the question.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you that for a tremendous certainty.
		When I was in the Central Intelligence Agency, I made the mistake of revealing some things about our security problems on a top secret installation.
		The individual I related to looked at me.
		He was white as a sheet when I related to him.
		And then he looked at me and said, why in the world would you make that kind of a statement?
		And I said, well, the tumbers on the lock of that particular building can be heard, and you can actually tell how to break into this thing just by listening to the timbers.
		He says, have you ever done that?
		And I said, no, I have not.
		He said, well, how would you know that?
		I said, well, you used to be a safe cracker before you got into company, didn't you?
		And he looked at me for a long time and very red face, and finally he admitted he was.
		But the next day, in a major meeting, the chief of station and the chief of security, this guy's boss, were standing there with about 30 other people.
		And the chief of security stood up and said, if anybody ever gets caught near this certain building, and he looks at me and says, tampering with those locks or even, if I think, if I think you're near that building, I promise you 40 years in prison and no one will ever know where you're at.
		I looked at the chief of station who liked me very well and had sent a number of my items up to Langley and noticed that he wasn't smiling at all.
		And I knew that guy was telling the truth.
		Last time I did my good turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how can you guys work for people like this?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		You don't.
		You quit.
		Well, I did.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's sort of like being in a Grade B movie and you want to see how it turns out.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Excellent enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		So you do.
		You finally get fed up.
		What about the people?
		And this is really a more important question.
		I'm very glad that you guys were that way, and I can understand why you'd get fed up and quit.
		While I enjoyed my stay in the Air Force, I found the way they did things was not particularly to my liking, and I was more independent, so I left.
		I mean, it's kind of the same psychology, only you guys even had it worse.
		Now, what I want to ask you about is the guys who stay, the guys who can digest all this and stay.
		What does that mean we end up with in the CIA, in the spy satellite business, the people who can integrate into the kind of system we're just talking about right now?
		What kind of quality of people end up being lifers?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can talk about the aerospace business a little bit.
		For one thing, we're right there on the cutting edge.
		And that's exciting, and that's challenging, and it's professionally, it's wonderful.
		I would venture that probably less than 1% of the engineers that I know of would give a hoot and a holler about UFOs or anything like that.
		And so they really suffer from the old ostrich complex.
		Keep your head in the sand and do your work.
		And when your head's in the sand, you know where your hindquarters are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't make any waves.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		But they're doing something that's exciting and challenging.
		And they really believe the whole story.
		And I do, too, for a lot of it.
		I think we do do an outstanding job.
		And after all, it was the defense business that brought down the Soviet Union.
		We've kept this country free and safe for quite a few years.
		And that's not to say we're not without our faults.
		But there's some mighty good people doing some outstanding work there.
		And I don't not ashamed at all to say I'm proud to be a part of it.
		But there's also some shady characters, and those are the ones that we don't want to talk about too much, or expose them if we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is Daryl, the CIA, doing these days?
		Do you have any sense of what their main missions are?
		Are they as active as ever?
		Has the ending of the Cold War, ha-ha, put them out of business or what's going on?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		The CIA is not out of business, never will be out of business, as long as people are paranoid that are in government and will fund it and as long as we pay taxes to support that mentality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no shortage of paranoia.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		And there's no shortage of money.
		My tax situation ought to prove that.
		Bron and I were discussing that on the phone just before you came on when you were talking about the taxes.
		I was audited twice this year.
		And on both occasions, they said I owed $37,000.
		And after both audits, they looked at me just strange.
		They just couldn't figure out why I didn't owe a penny.
		But I had to spend about $3,500 to prove to them I didn't owe a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think you were audited?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, two times in a row in the same situation with two different tax auditors, this is rather curious to me.
		My tax auditing problem started after I got out of the CIA.
		I did not leave on the best of terms with them.
		In fact, I brought a congressional investigation on the company before I left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Chairman Mendel Rivers of the House Armed Services Committee headed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		So I ended up exiled to ASCOM, Korea, for my efforts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not necessarily particularly unusual, is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, people who leave the agency in less than stellar light.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		It happens.
		It really happens.
		I've had an unusual amount of audits ever since then.
		So, too, this year was unusual, especially since I didn't know them a penny and they admitted it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		Well, anyway, back to the business of what can and can't be seen.
		Daryl, do you have any way of confirming what Ron is saying about what we have seen with our satellites?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		The best way I can confirm that independently and without any violation in any sense of the word concerning my clearance status, which is now secret.
		It was top secret.
		It's been administratively reduced to secret now.
		The independent way to do that and the collaboration that Ron and I have come into is to take cases, the finest cases that I feel like I have, and try to establish those times, dates, and places with the exact findings that he has in his research, which is he's acquired quite legally.
		And some of these are showing up with some rather remarkable...
		This is phenomenal.
		Phenomenal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ron, I know this is a question that is going to be hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you don't happen to have possession of any of these satellite photographs, Dave?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		No, what I do have is in my book, I have six pages of Fast Walker reports, line after line after line of Fast Walker reports.
		Right.
		And I say that, we'll use the definition that Jacques Valley uses in his term, in his book, Fast Walker, and use that for our working definition.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And let me rephrase the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen any of these satellite photographs?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I have not seen satellite photographs, no, of detecting UFOs.
		Let me explain the differences between the two.
		Satellite data that I have is from one that's in geosynchronous orbit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And it's a non-imaging satellite.
		We have visual sensors, infrared and ultraviolet, along with some that are in other areas of the spectrum.
		And we send out a digital signal.
		We do a little bit of processing onboard, and then we send out a digital signal and then match those data against what we call a time-intensity profile.
		What that is, is let's assume for the moment that a match and a little flash bulb have the same amount of energy in them.
		A flash bulb goes out and it releases its energy very, very quickly.
		Whereas a match might have the same amount of energy, but it'll release it over a 30-second time span.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		So each target that we look at has a different time intensity profile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and so when we detect something the computers will attempt to match that time intensity profile with one that's stored in the database and then give us a best fit or a best match in other words like a submarine you're trying to So you're doing the same kind of matching work.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's a good analogy.
		And so we can then categorize what the targets are that we're looking at.
		So we don't have a photograph, we have a digital signal, and then we can look at that digital signal and get a good idea of what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So whether it's a visual image or it's a signature, it really doesn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can track the speed, altitude, and all the rest of it of an object.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right, just as if at night time you can hear a train go by by listening to it without seeing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
		Makes sense.
		And how many of these kinds of detections of what you and I know as fast walkers do you think there have been?
		Do you have any sense of how many?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can give you a precise number here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you can?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's up to the time, my database.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I got my information from Freedom of Information Act in 1994, and the data goes from 1973 to 1992.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a good long span.
		All right, this is a good hook.
		So what I'm going to do is let you gentlemen relax, and when we come back, we will have that answer for everybody, all right?
unidentified		Okay, cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		I absolutely love doing that to people.
		It's a fault that you acquire.
		The more and more you do radio, you learn to sort of keep people on the hook, as it were.
		Thank you, gentlemen.
		Stay right where you are, we'll be right back.
		Spy satellites.
		We have an expert, the CIA.
		We have an ex-employee, and then there's me.
		Black ops, right?
		I wonder if this broadcast will make it to term.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		1st, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and boy, what have we got for you this month?
		Probably trouble.
		Ronald Regier, who is an expert, designed spy satellites, knows about them, knows the pictures they can take and took.
		We're going to ask about that in a moment.
		Daryl Sims, who's ex-CIA and is an investigator in a ufology investigator, and we'll sort of merge all of these for you as time goes on.
		This is my first opportunity, though, to talk to an expert on spy satellites, and I love it.
unidentified		The End.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to my guests, Ronald Regier and Daryl Sims.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		We were about to drop a number on them.
		And the question was, how many of these fast walkers, so-called, during those years that you specified, and you can tell us what they are again, did our satellites image?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is in my book.
		We have from 1973, which we just had one in 1973.
		And let's see, no, that's a mistake.
		We had three in 1973.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And then 1974 we had five.
		Then we started getting a little bit better at this.
		In 1977, we had a few more.
		The latest we have total count here between there and 1992.
		And 1992 is almost a full page of data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		three hundred and sixteen three hundred and sixteen unaccountable poet Are we talking about objects of the sort that I just described?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very fast objects moving through the atmosphere, unaccountably fast and definitely some sort of objects.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about things that they identify with the code FW, which I believe stands for Fast Walker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like that to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They actually use that acronym, huh?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		They use that acronym.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a fax here from Ed Dames.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hi, say hi.
		He called me at work one time.
		And as a matter of fact, the day I received that fax, I got a call at work from Ed Dames.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I really did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what he says here is, Art Ron is the real thing, valuable information for you and your listeners.
		Though he may have been out of the loop for a decade or more, even he can only imagine what technology can do today.
		Still, he is walking a fine line.
		I'm sure that you know what I mean.
		He certainly does.
		P.S. A talking point hint.
		Observe your guest's reaction.
		Suppose that I knew that a potential enemy country believed that UFOs were real.
		In that case, I could mimic the behavior of what that particular country recognized as a UFO and penetrate their airspace with impunity.
		This is not TV.
		I cannot observe your reaction with silence.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me quote from a publication called the Soviet Military Review.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		June 1989 in an article titled UFOs and Security.
		And what they're doing is they're talking about our SDI.
		Remember Star Wars that Reagan had?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Quote, this missile defense is designed to control outer space and destroy near-Earth, air, and space targets.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Any system can be effective only if it is managed by super quick computer systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		It is most important here to correctly identify targets.
		So, corresponding computer cells must know what signal characteristics of the object it is tracking to make it a potential target.
		Here's where it gets interesting.
		We believe that lack of information on the characteristics and influence of UFOs increase the threat of incorrect identification.
		Mass transition of UFOs along trajectories close to those of combat missiles could be regarded by computers as an attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Now think of that for a minute.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The Soviet Union actually considered that UFOs could be misidentified by our Star Wars system as attacking Soviet missiles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And that happened came close to it because in 1960, all the bombers at Travis were put on red alert and they were actually rolling down the runways after their base radars detected targets flying from the North Pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		When those targets disappeared from the screen, they were later on explained as radar reflections of the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it that we increased our DEF CON level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't dispatch that kind of force without an increase in DEF CON level.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		DEF CON 3 is launch of forces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got to DEF CON 3, you're saying?
unidentified		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		On radar reflections off the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radar reflections off the moon.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's one of the things that led me to believe that we can't identify these things.
		There's a number of little snippets of things like this that make it unconscionable that people would be able to categorize.
		Let's go back in history for a minute, if I may, Art.
unidentified		You may.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The first study to investigate phenomenology from space was led out by President Truman, the RAND Corporation.
		His Secretary of the Navy was Dan Kimball.
		Dan Kimball spotted a UFO.
		Dan Kimball left the White House in 1952 when Eisenhower was selected.
		Dan Kimball went to Aerojet and was the president of Aerojet.
		Aerojet was founded by Theodore von Karman, who was also the founder of Jet Propulsion Labs.
		Aerojet's one of the prime makers of deep space sensors.
		I don't know if there's any tie in there, but as we said earlier, there's coincidences and then there's real strong coincidences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		It's all very incestuous.
		Listen, we have just gone through and are going through now a tremendous controversy about the region of Sidonia on Mars.
		And there is a camera that Dr. Malin, of Dr. Malin's design on the spacecraft.
		And there have been great arguments about the quality of photographs that we are getting back.
		Now, this satellite is in low Mars orbit, just roughly, as a matter of fact, the same altitude as our low orbiters here on Earth.
		Have you seen the photographs that have been coming back?
		And if so, are you satisfied that they represent, how can I put this, state-of-the-art technology in this field?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		For an edge of sketch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For an edge of sketch?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Here, here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You agree with that, Daryl?
unidentified		Absolutely.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		No, they don't near represent them.
		You have to go through the atmosphere.
		Mars does not have that dense an atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're so correct.
		And see, I said this at the time.
		I monitor the NOAA stuff.
		It provides crystal clear pictures of what we get.
		I mean, really crystal clear.
		You can look at the strips.
		I put one of them up on my website when the first Mars pictures came back, the first so-called pictures of the face from the new spacecraft.
		And they had this long, dark, indecipherable strip, which, in fact, if you dug deep enough, did have some information in it, but it was pathetic.
		Totally pathetic.
		And I screeched and yelled about it that night.
		And I said, look, I know our technology is better than this.
		transmission from mars i grant you it's a longer distance but it's all coming back with error correcting telemetry so the pictures ought to be mwah 100%.
		I am.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		100% correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		There's no reason we can't get better imaging from Mars than we get from right here on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because of the lack of atmosphere.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dern.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		So either they deliberately set out not to get as good imaging as they could, or they're messing with the signal.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they're getting some good pictures, and maybe the bad ones, like the photo company does sometimes, they send to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You both are very suspicious, aren't you?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		It's been done before.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's something that just really irritates me.
		They have the technology, we have the technology, to do so much better than what we're seeing.
		I haven't seen any actual images.
		All I've seen is what's on the web.
		But I know that from what's on the web from other imaging systems from the 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
		I know.
		I mean, here we are.
		We were using Viticon tubes back then.
		Now we have incredibly sensitive, high-resolution CCDs up there, supposedly.
		And we're just getting garbage compared to what we ought to have, or what I think we ought to have, with today's technology.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can also use, we're not even limited by CCDs.
		We can use film also.
		If you recall the early satellites, the early Kehoe 1 through 4, I think it was called Torona Series.
		They dropped a film canister over Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And the Air Force played tag with the Soviets trying to snag these things out of the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a race to see who got it first, huh?
unidentified		Right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Then we had submarines and surfers.
		It was great.
		Anyway, but to stop that, what we did was we got some ultra-high-res cameras, and then we scanned those.
		Remember the old fax machine where you had the drum that would spin?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, imagine, if you would, a laser and a high-image photograph, and then the laser would be able to detect gray tones and then digitize that signal, and then you can get that digital signal back and reconstruct that back on Earth.
		That's what we're doing now.
		We get ultra-high resolution that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me read this to you.
		Art, my own understanding, the optical photography which your guest is describing is old hat.
		Current technology involves a radar mapping method which can resolve the head of a pin in most weather conditions.
		If he is brave, perhaps he will discuss this subject, or perhaps these advancements came after his time.
		What can you tell us about that?
		Radar mapping, of course, they're going to be doing that, I believe, on Mars as well.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Radar mapping, the problem we have with radar mapping is it's sociologically incorrect.
		It takes a tremendous amount of energy.
		All the other sensors we're talking about are passive sensors.
		What they do is they detect reflections or emissions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are quite correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A radar requires an emission and a return and a lot of power.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And so it would have something like an orbiting Chernobyl, and not too many people like those.
		You can remember the static NASA got just with the Cassini probe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but these were what were made public.
		Now, I don't doubt for a second that there are all kinds of nuclear things in orbit or placed somewhere up there that we don't know about.
		Of course, they would say there is a treaty and we don't do that kind of thing, but I'm not sure I believe it.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sincerely doubt we have too many of them.
		I don't know of any that we have that we have made public.
		And if I knew of any that I'd just say it was classified and couldn't respond, I don't know of any.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you really don't?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I really don't.
		The only radar one I know of is La Crosse.
		And that's a fairly new satellite.
		The Keyhole series, the new Keyhole 12s, they use side-looking radar as well.
		But they're just awfully tight.
		They're maneuverable.
		They run out of fuel easy.
		They've only got about 700, 800-day life.
		They're fantastic with what they do.
unidentified		No question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, where is it that you two come together?
		In other words, here we have a man familiar with satellites, designed them, and we've got Darrell Sims, who was ex-CIA and investigates implants, that sort of thing.
		Where does the twain meet here?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me start, and then I'll toss it over to Darryl.
		I believe that we first got into the UFO detection business because of two reasons.
		Military sabotage and abductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		If you remember back in the early days, and maybe still going on, and I'm not privy to all of that, and maybe Daryl is, used to be a lot of UFO activity associated with sabotage.
		And we had the Juno missile failure.
		We had B-29s that were routed around.
		We had all our space probes, early space probes crashed.
		We had green fireballs.
		We had nuclear warheads retargeted in Maelstrom two times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that, yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		We had an Atlas F ICBM launched in 1964 that was shot down by a UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		Don't just zip by that one.
		No.
		I hadn't heard of that.
		We had an ICBM shot down by a UFO.
		You want to run that one by me?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some detail?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Robert Jacobs, I believe his name is, was running a camera system on a mountain in Big Sur, tracking the polar launches of Atlas missiles out of Vandenberg Air Force Base.
		It's the same camera, by the way, that tracks all the shuttle landings at Edwards Air Force Base.
		So it's the same system.
		In December, I'm not remembering the exact date, but December 1964, he was filming Atlas F launch.
		During the course of the filming, and he just sets the camera, the camera's on automatic, he's not watching the film all the time, but the Atlas blew up.
		Now this was in the 60s, and if you recall, it was not a bit uncommon for our missiles to blow up in the 60s.
		That was almost a given for a while there with the early ones always falling over.
		But anyway, he was called into Major Mansman's, Lawrence Mansman's office, and shown a film the film had taken.
		And on this film, he saw disshaped objects flashing lights, light beams directed at the Atlas, and circling the Atlas missile.
		The second or third time they circled the Atlas and fired the light beams at it, the Atlas disintegrated and exploded.
		When he was asked what happened, he said, I think those are UFOs.
		And Mansman said, no, we had a malfunction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How clear was the footage?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, the distance from Big Sur to Vandenberg is substantially less than Big Sur to Edwards Air Force Base.
		And you've seen the pictures of Big Sur to Edwards with the shuttle landing.
		And you can get an idea how clear those pictures are.
		Cut the distance by about a third.
		Excellent resolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, at the termination of Project Blue Book, the Air Force said that not all of the things they investigated could be explained, but they ended it by suggesting that whatever UFOs are, they are not a threat to national security.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, initiating, shutting ICBMs down, the case of Russia initiating launch sequences, shooting down rockets in mid-flight, this strikes me as possibly in the realm of national security.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		It is.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Daryl, you want to handle that one?
unidentified		Absolutely.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		In 1952, a case of UFOs over the Capitol, a case that's in my book that I'm currently writing, I found the pilots that actually were involved in sent up by the United States.
unidentified		Now, when you say the Capitol, Daryl, you mean as in Washington, D.C. 1952, yes.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		The UFOs were spotted over the Capitol and a series of these UFOs.
		We had several pilots go up in Lockheed F-94B Starfire to intercept six unidentified UFO objects.
		They were tracked from radar.
		They were also seen by commercial pilots as well as, of course, the pilots themselves.
		I've recently found the pilots and they've told their story.
		Long story short about that is simply this.
		After the two pilots did their job, then they landed at Langley Air Force Base, before it was the CIA headquarters, and I had their flight logs to verify the story.
		They were both taken and placed in two different rooms.
		Then they were questioned and asked the question, what did you see?
		And then they relayed the story.
		And then after that story was relayed, the interrogators looked at them and said, no, you didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't see what you saw.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		You didn't see anything like that.
		And you won't see anything like that.
		And if you do, punitive action will be taken against you.
		And so on and so on.
		Well, long story short, these fellows gave up their commission in the Air Force.
unidentified		Darrell.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		One became a commercial airline pilot.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He just finished up his career and now has come forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daryl, good.
		I don't want to make it that short.
		I can handle a longer story.
		UFOs over our capital.
		He's now told his story, and I want to hear it.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. Listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		I had the only hair of what I am It's all clear to me now Bye.
		Thank you.
		My heart is on fire.
		My soul take a wheel that's turning.
		My love is alive.
		My love is alive, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		My love is alive, yeah, yeah.
		My love is alive, yeah, yeah.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Actually, tonight is a very good example of what I was telling a caller a little bit earlier.
		And he called me, said, you know, you know, Art, you ought to change your program.
		The only thing you ought to have on are mainstream scientists, physicists, astronomers, that sort of thing.
		And of course, I have those people on my program all the time.
		But the truth is not necessarily contained in any one single place or within one strict paradigm, whether that's conventional science or unconventional science or secret science.
		This day, my guests are Ronald Regier, who designed and actually worked with spy satellites, and Darrell Sims, who's ex-CIA and has been a UFO investigator for many years now.
		So, in search of the truth, I think, requires many paths, and this is yet one more.
		We'll get back to them in a moment.
unidentified		We'll get back to them in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to my guests.
		And Daryl, you were right in the middle of explaining about these objects that appeared over our capital in 1952, I believe, and we sent up a couple of fighters, you said, and the pilots were then debriefed and told they didn't see a damn thing.
		But one of them now is out of the service, is a commercial pilot, and you said has told his story.
		What is his story?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Basically, the gentleman, he flew the, and this is on July 26, 1952, and his individual flight record records that in him landing at Langley Air Base at the time.
		And he basically relates that during this event where the UFOs were over the Capitol building, they came back, they landed, and were placed in two different rooms, debriefed, and asked the question, what basically did you see?
		And they told him, then they got more specific, and finally they said, you know, as we approached, and they sped away and so on and all these other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what did he describe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He saw.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		What he described was that the objects were doing remarkable and incredible maneuvers that we were not able to do or match with our aircraft.
		And from a pilot, strictly from a fighter pilot's point of view, this is what he was relaying to them.
		And of course, this was not within the paradigm of the individuals there.
		But it wasn't like they couldn't see this on radar.
		I mean, this stuff is actually on film.
		You can see old film of this sort of thing.
		I saw it when I was a kid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe they actually had pictures of the objects.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Published in the Washington Post or one of the big papers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		And the amazing thing about it, of course, is after they finally questioned them at length and they gave their entire stories, they looked at them and said, no, you didn't.
		You didn't see anything like that.
		It didn't happen.
		This event did not occur.
		And then they threatened them.
		And this gentleman, I have him on tape in a public meeting.
		I asked him to come forward.
		He would.
		He did.
		Came forward and gave a public statement.
		And in the public statement, said they threatened me.
		He said, I can't figure out why in the world somebody would send me up to do this sort of thing, to face something we don't know what it is, and then come back and then threaten me because I did what they told me to do.
		He said, so I gave up my commission and became an airline pilot, and he just retired, and that's the reason he's coming forward because now he basically has nothing to lose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, I'm going to ask a very sensitive question here.
		Regarding these fast walkers that you talked about a while ago, Ronald, the 300 and some odd that have been recorded during that period of time you mentioned?
		Obviously, well, maybe I shouldn't say obviously, but to the best of my knowledge, during those years, we had no such craft and probably don't today that would do those kinds of maneuvers and speeds through our atmosphere.
		Is that fair to say?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the closest we've got to it is the SR-71.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And it doesn't come close to some of the reported phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that if these are craft, these are craft from elsewhere.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair assumption, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You both agree?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have had reports, in fact, I have seen video of what appears to be us shooting at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we doing that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I have no knowledge of that, although I wouldn't be surprised.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't prove that.
		However, I have some documents that Dr. Lear and I received while we were down in Brazil that are secret documents from the Brazilian government.
		It goes into Portuguese, and I have an English translation of it.
		And soon I'll put these up on our website.
		But basically, what we have here is Daniel Golden's signature, in case people don't know who that is.
		That's the administrator of NASA.
		And Wayne Christopher, Warren Christopher, of the United States.
		And what they're doing is going into these are documents I've not been able to show Ron yet, but I will.
		And I assure you, based on his experience, he will see far better than what I have seen here, which shows to me that their primary interest in these documents is controlling airspace in reference to UFOs.
		And I find that rather interesting, especially after these agreements were signed after the so-called Vargina incident.
		And in that particular case, one investigator down there in Brazil, Claudio Covo, and myself have come to an opinion that the possibility exists based on other testimony that that UFO might in fact have been shot.
		It had a huge hole in the side of it, was flying around for apparently several hours before it actually landed, and that hence, in my opinion, possibly let off a number of the occupants in different locations, and that's the reason they were found in different locations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know that a number of people that I know went down there and investigated this and talked to witnesses who saw the craft, who saw the beings, and there's quite a bit of eyewitness testimony with regard to this incident in Brazil.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of them, Stanton Friedman.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you believe that we shot a hole through this damn thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It flew for as long as it could and then landed or crash-landed.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I find it amusing that NORAD was the one that called the information into the Brazilian Air Force.
		How did NORAD know that?
		How did they know it was coming down in their sector?
		And how did they know it was coming down to begin with?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did they know any of this?
		I don't have the slightest idea, but since you have brought up the subject of NORAD, let me ask you about a rumor that has been flying around all over the place, and it may be absolutely false.
		It's a good opportunity to knock it down.
		Maybe you know something about it, but I am told that quite a large number of employees and their families quickly left NORAD, packed up their stuff, and left the country.
		Have you heard anything about that?
		Have either one of you heard anything about that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I haven't.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I have not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, both of you say no then.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I had no knowledge of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		NORAD, of course, would be responsible for collating the data that these satellites retrieve, wouldn't it?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Interestingly enough, we have a treaty with Canada, and NORAD is jointly run by the United States and Canada, as such, that makes them exempt from all Freedom of Information Act requests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Absolutely.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Tidy little arrangement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always felt that even though you can occasionally get a little jewel in a freedom of information request because somebody makes a mistake, generally speaking, if they don't want you to know something, an FOIA is not going to get it for you.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's generally true.
		One of the good researchers, if I can just relay a little vignette along that line, Lee Graham, I don't know if you've heard of him or not, but he's probably written more Freedom of Information Act requests individually than any other 10 people you want to name.
		And his wife signed for, while he was at work, a response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
		It turned out that someone was on duty in the FOIA office and wasn't aware of the rules and regulations, and because of the wording of the request, supplied Lee with a classified document.
		His wife signed for it.
		It was double-wrapped.
		He got home, and he's no longer employed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No longer employed.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		No longer employed because someone made a mistake and sent him a classified document.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you this.
		I was in the Air Force.
		I spent four years in the Air Force.
		And part of that was overseas on the island of Oginawa during the Vietnam War before I got to go down myself.
		And every day we would fly missions out of Kadena Air Force Base with B-52s, KC-135s and B-52s.
		And they roundly denied that any of these missions were taking place.
		I mean, absolute flat denials.
		Every day, the local Okinawan television station, Channel 12, Ryukyuhoso, would go up to the gate.
		You know, they could get as close as the gate.
		And they would take these photographs of B-52s directly coming over them.
		The camera was shaking, you know, as the B-52 would rise up, and then they just track it.
		And then they would go to the base spokesman, and they would point out this video, and the base spokesman would stand there with a straight face and say, no B-52s fly from this base.
		Just a little hint of, and this went on for a couple of years.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Did he ever get a job in the presidency or anything?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, you know, the Washington, D.C. overflight that Darryl was talking about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The following Monday, General Stanford called a press release.
		It was the biggest press release since the end of World War II and attempted to explain to the press that what they had seen, our best interceptors that spent hours trying to intercept, had been tracked by our best radars at the time.
		Tried to explain that these were either a temperature inversion, a meteor, or the planet Mars and Jupiter.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		And that's the reason they threatened these people and they quit their career because of ionized air.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right, some bad air out there, right, but it wasn't that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, both of you left your intelligence work respectively, and I spent a little bit of time earlier in the program asking you about then the kind of individual that becomes a lifer.
		In other words, the one who does not make waves, integrates into the system, and doesn't want to know anything he shouldn't know, doesn't want to tell anything he shouldn't tell, and becomes the perfect little soldier.
		And over a period of time, isn't that generally what we end up with?
		And so should we be surprised that we have this kind of information wall?
		In other words, these are people who don't make waves.
		They're not going to come forward.
		They're not going to say anything.
		They're probably, for the most part, going to go to their graves with their information.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		This is generally true.
		However, I've located some people over the years.
		One of them is a lieutenant commander in my little list of military-type people who are coming forward.
		He is a lieutenant commander, he claims, and is willing to come forward.
		He was a member of Project Blue Book.
		And I said, would you come forward on camera with this?
		And he said, absolutely.
		And I said, well, basically, what did you, what information do you have that was of any interest to anyone?
		And he said, well, basically, we lied about everything.
		He said, I don't know about abductions and all that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean Blue Book?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it was an intentional opportunity to run around to wherever there might be an incident and explain it away or dispense with evidence or whatever.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		That was his assertion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe him?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I think so based on the other things I've found.
		One other thing I found in this rather interesting situation, 1952, I found this individual here in Houston, rather shocked by this, but this individual actually was part of a roving anti-aircraft gunnery unit that was on the ground during the time the UFOs came over twice in Washington, D.C. They had anti-aircraft gunnery units.
		Now, why in the world would they have roving anti-aircraft gunnery units on the nights the UFOs were over the Capitol?
		And, I mean, what would the purpose of an anti-aircraft gunnery unit be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they only have one that I know of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're supposed to shoot stuff down.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, this would indicate to me that they had the idea that there was a threat there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, I was in the military, and the mentality worries me a little bit.
		And now I'm coming back to the fact that we do appear to be shooting at these things.
		Now, check me if I'm wrong here, but just casual thinking has brought to me The following.
		And that is that if they are here, they are here from light years or dimensions or whatever we want to imagine away, meaning they have technology we cannot even begin to imagine.
		Now, shooting at these people would seem to me to be a poorly constructed idea, generally one that you would expect from the military, but poorly constructed.
		And if in fact they are real, it's liable to end up with something terrible happening to us.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Could we reverse that?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		In UFO Danger Zone, an excellent book by Bob Pratt, we find for nearly 30 years UFOs doing the same things to human beings in the Amazon region.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean abductions?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Not just that, but shooting little laser lights at them and at these people, many of them injured, and some of them even died as a result.
		It doesn't make any sense to me if these beings or craft or whatever are from wherever out there and they're supposed to be highly intelligent and everything else, why they would be doing this sort of thing to people.
		And much of the torture part of this, this sort of scenario, usually comes in areas where people are least able to do anything about it.
		I mean, one gentleman in a case I'm investigating in Brazil had his eyes surgically removed after his abduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		And now this is the type of mentality that some of these other people that think these beings are here to save the planet and fix the ozone hole and a few other things, which they haven't done since they've been here.
		I fail to understand why.
		And you might say, well, that was only one instance and it was just a lab rap.
		They just took his eyes.
		But why for 30 years they've done this sort of thing to people?
		And as I said, UFO Danger Zone is the name of the book.
		Bob Press wrote it with a forward by Jacques Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I wouldn't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say removing a person's eyes is really serious as far as I'm concerned.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Especially if it were the person's eyes who felt like they were here to save the planet.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		You might think differently about that after that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may be that there are different groups that are here, and many people say that, and some may be friendly, and some may not be so friendly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But shooting at them just seems like a poorly constructed idea, unless they're really doing something to our national security that is really frightening.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		and even then shooting at something with that much technology i mean you should think a lot before you do it Or there may be, as you say, different groups.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Has either of you gentlemen ever heard of a planetary defense workshop?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have not.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That was a group that was met in 1995 and again in 1997 to work out areas to defend this planet.
		And the stated reason was asteroids and meteors.
		They had some real heavy hitters on there, people from U.S. Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll pick up on this in a second.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and I would like to open the lines.
		And we've got two very good experts here, and so I'd like to get to questions, okay?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming up.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		She's got better days.
		She turned a music on.
		You won't have to think twice.
		She's pure as New York snow.
		She's got better days.
		It's a heat, you're better.
		Okay, it's not taken to let the day go home with a happy time to let your
		I'm going to go.
		Listen to the wind blow, watch the sun cry.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		Run in the shadows Down your love, down your life And if you don't love me now You'll feel the love You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Cota Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Unusual opportunity for you.
		We're about to open the lines here.
		We have two experts, Ronald Regeer, who designed spy satellites, and Darrell Sims, who was CIA.
		If you have questions, we're about to get the lines open.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to my guests, Ronald Regeer and Darrell Sims.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		We were talking about a planetary defense, and you know, Ronald Reagan, I don't know how many times made reference to the possibility That we might as a planet need to defend ourselves.
		And he made that reference, I suppose, in trying to justify Star Wars.
		I don't know.
		Either that or he knew something that we're still trying to find out ourselves.
		What do you think?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		From what I heard, he made the statement five times.
		Yep.
		And Premier Gorbachev also made an almost identical statement once that I'm aware of.
		Right.
		And just during the break, I highlighted some on the Planetary Defense Workshop participants.
		There's seven, eight pages, 15 people per page.
		Chief of the Kinetic Impact Branch at Phillips Laboratories at Kirland Air Force Base.
		The Director of Advanced Projects at Edwards Air Force Base.
		Chief Scientist, Planetary Institute at Tucson.
		The Andarev Astronomical Observatory from the Czech Academy of Science in the Czech Republic.
		Russian Federal Nuclear Center, Novgorod Region, Russia.
		Chief Scientist at the Pentagon.
		The head of international security consulting.
		Russian Federal Nuclear Center at Chelnyabrisk Region, Russia.
		The National Astronomical Observatory at Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan.
		The Planetary Defense Mission Planner from Vandenberg Air Force Base.
		Lawrence Livermore Labs.
		Ames Research Center.
		NASA Department of Energy.
		Goes on and on and on.
		Lunar Planetary Labs, Russian Federal Nuclear Center, I named those before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are the two of you, I'm curious, why are the two of you deciding to come forward now after all this time?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Daryl, you want to handle that one first?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I was asked that question by a movie producer just recently.
		And he wants to offer to make a movie based on some of the things I'm relating here in my life.
		And basically what it amounts to is, he said, why are you coming forward with this kind of information?
		Why are you putting this finally in a book after 34 years of investigations?
		Why are you coming forward with this physical evidence?
		And he said, and I understand that there's a lot better evidence that you have even than implants, as great as that stuff is.
		Why?
		And I said, well, I didn't think until this year that I could really make a case.
		I said, I think we can now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that you work closely with Dr. Roger Lear, and we've had him on the air.
		And you told me something the other day, something that Dr. Lear is into that is new.
		What's he doing?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Lear, we have done something rather remarkable.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		We just signed an agreement to do up to seven TV programs, and we have creative control, editorial control over the material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How unusual.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		It's never been done before, and we are absolutely delighted with that, and it's a done deal.
		So that's the latest.
		There are several other things that Roger and I will be doing.
		In fact, I'll be leaving tomorrow afternoon in reference to that, and we'll be doing some filming further with other individuals.
		And this will also come out as one of the programs.
		But I assure you, it will stun your listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daryl, you're familiar with Whitley Streeber, right?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He knows Whitley very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was my guest last week on Dreamland.
		And Whitley has told a story about an implant in his ear for years now.
		And a surgeon went to take that implant out, applied the scalpel, opened up his ear, applied the scalpel, and the damn thing moved.
		And he thought, hmm.
		And so he went after it again.
		And once again, the implant actually moved away from the scalpel.
		Now, I've heard Whitley tell that story, but we had the surgeon on, the doctor who did the surgery, and that's exactly the way he told it this last Sunday.
		Have you heard of things like that, Daryl?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I have two cases where this is alleged to occur, and both of them are under the skin, where the so-called object moves visibly underneath the skin, where you can actually see it.
		I have no idea as to whether that is related to anything that Whitley may have experienced.
		It bothers me as to this, not Whitley's story, the story that's related here, these two, as to whether this could be an implant or some kind of even microtechnology or whatever, because it would require some movement under the skin, would require sensation and obviously pain and other things and tissue damage and so on.
		If that were the case, if you could see this moving, and I've just had a case sent to me on video with this, and I'm reviewing it now.
		But there's a lot more testing that will be done before we can come to any kind of conclusion about it.
		There's a possibility it could be something as simple as a muscle reaction, an inversion of muscle as a result of spasm or this sort of thing.
		I mean, it could be something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't in this case.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure, like I say, what we're referring to here is different than what Whitley's relaying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A remarkable testimony this last week.
		I have the tape.
		In fact, I play it up here on Costa Waldo these nights.
		I will.
		First time caller line, you are on the air with the entire group here.
		Ronald Regeer, Daryl Sims, and Art Bell.
unidentified		High.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, where's Daryl?
unidentified		This is Andrew in Oklahoma City, WKY.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Andrew.
unidentified		I'm a retired Air Force Master Sergeant with a top-secret SSIR clearance, and have always wondered, considering that reconnaissance satellites can even discern license place numbers, is it possible that there is potential satellite evidence of O.J. Simpson or his vehicle being Present at the scene of the crime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, could they, good question, could they have seen it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that would be for you, Ron.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yes, no.
		Yes, we could have if we were looking.
		That would have required using an elliptical orbit satellite, and those have to be either directed over a certain area beforehand, and that takes a lot of resources.
		If it had been over the area and there had been scanning, they could have seen it.
		Let me give you an example.
		Remember when Terry Waite was held captive by several years ago?
		We were able, using our surveillance satellites, to follow Terry Waite from hostage location to location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we probably have capability that we can't even right now hint at, or even if you did know, you couldn't hint at.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as the saying goes, I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Tell him something else.
		There's something you can tell, Ron, that would be very useful at this point and answer this gentleman's question and also open some things up here for Art and his listeners.
		And that is you could see Terry Waite not just because of sight, but you could also see him because of his heat signature.
		And there are things like that, and a good example of this is the mere fact that you can tell information concerning, as a good example, the cattle disease that occurred in England.
		There's a different heat signature whenever those cattle are sick.
unidentified		And you can tell anywhere in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about mad cow disease, right?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		You were paying attention while we talked, weren't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		All right.
		We'll come back to that in a moment.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're all fine.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		Well, it's very nice to be speaking with all of you.
		Very interesting program, and you always have interesting and very astute guests on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Well, actually, I had a question going back to when one of the gentlemen specified that he knew about other spacecraft shooting at each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So that possibly would infer that there were maybe more than one type of species being on the planet.
unidentified		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		We're possibly visiting.
unidentified		Well, I had called you before about little wrinkly men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About what?
unidentified		About the little wrinkly guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I'm not recalling it offhand.
unidentified		Okay, well, anyway.
unidentified		I was talking about being visited, you know, when people visit you and when you see creatures come in and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, one time something was pointed out to me, and it was the moon.
		And I was wondering, since we just sent another moonshot up there after all these years, right?
		And they went on the dark side of the moon and they were visiting some, I don't know, structure on the other side of the moon, would it be possible that they were trying to, I don't know, get rid of it or something, just like they're not sending the pictures on Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I don't know how we'd address that because I don't even know that I can confirm there's anything on the other side of the moon.
		But it does bring to mind a very good question for either one or both of you.
		We sent men to the moon long, long ago.
		We have not sent men to another planetary or satellite body since.
		Why?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I'll start.
		For one reason, it's very, very expensive considering what we can do with remote instrumentation.
		It's just horribly expensive.
		But I think there's probably another reason, and that is that our astronauts, if you believe Edgar Mitchell, for example, said we know they're there.
		He knows there's aliens there.
		The government knows there are aliens there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Buzz Aldrin has said that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Edgar Mitchell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Edgar Mitchell has also said that.
		Okay.
		So, as a matter of fact, I had news from a reporter in Hawaii who's a friend of mine that Buzz Aldrin did a talk.
		And at the end of the talk, very much at the very end, he uncovered a palette with a picture of a typical gray.
		And he pointed at it.
		And without a smile on his face, he said, these guys really exist.
		And there was just this sudden silence in the room.
		He didn't laugh.
		There was a little nervous chuckling out in the audience.
		And it was over.
		But he said that.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting that NASA specialists, NASA's primary investigator, Farouk Elbez, makes statements commonly concerning the huge, large spires that have been spotted on the moon by our people, and some of them is five and six times the height of the Empire State Building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Oglin has talked about this.
		People say he's crazy as a loon.
		You know, glass or crystal spires rising off the face of the moon.
		As a matter of fact, he made a rather compelling story that one of our spacecraft, which terminated, boom like that, ran into one of these things.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, this seems rather interesting to me that a NASA, a current employee and one of the highest-ranking people in his entire field, would make public statements like this.
		And his statement was that we probably are looking at the possibility of alien artifacts as we describe them.
		He said, maybe we're not understanding what we're seeing.
		He said, but these are not made from the materials that's made from the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Ronald Regier, Daryl Sims, and Art Bell Height.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		All right, this is Tim in Mesa, Arizona.
		I'm an ASU student.
		And two quick comments, and then I'll get off.
		I saw your images on the computer of the rocket and then the swerving UFO.
		And I believe that if these men are shooting at these beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What images are you referring to, sir?
unidentified		Well, I went to your website and I saw a rocket shooting at the stratosphere and something swerving away from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what images that you know uh...
unidentified		i'm not exactly the shawler the sd-51 image well the yeah it could be sds-48 or uh And it really struck me as funny because if they're doing that, then they're inadvertently risking the lives of a lot of otherwise innocent people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like us.
unidentified		Like us.
unidentified		And then another quick comment is I worked at Intel last year, and it's really scary because after the Arizona incidents, sightings, which I observed myself, inside the bathroom stalls and various parts of the Intel facility in the Fabs, there were posted and definite markers or actually signs that said procedures of how to deal with the UFO encounter or sighting.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Can you get copies of that?
unidentified		If you think?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Do you have copies of that?
unidentified		I actually could do that.
unidentified		I still have.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Would you be willing to send all three of us a copy?
unidentified		Well, I've got Art Bell's website.
		I'll get to a computer.
		I'm not working there now, but I am under contract, so I could be returning or I could visit my former boss.
		But it was very interesting to see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, if you would please send us copies, would you?
unidentified		Okay, and just one more thing.
unidentified		When the sightings were seen in Arizona, I saw it myself, and the stars in the background actually disappeared because this object was moving and it was not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk a little bit about that, gentlemen.
		The Arizona sightings, the Phoenix sightings.
		There are many, many, many witnesses, and there's quite a bit of video as well.
		And a lot of the witnesses said that they discerned an absolute solid object.
		What's your take, the both of you, on what occurred in Phoenix?
		And surely Phoenix is a giant area.
		It was a giant whatever it was.
		And that would have been seen by satellite as well.
		And I understand there was a coincident alert at NORAD.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I went to DEF CON 2.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon.
		this is a Ron?
		We went to DEF CON 2?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's what I've heard.
		It was the newspapers.
		I'll send you the newspaper article on that article.
		was also reported in the local newspaper.
		An actual, and they It says they went on alert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Went on alert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where does your information with regard to DEF CON 2 come from?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That comes from a person who would prefer to remain anonymous.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's a friend of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had heard that Cheyenne Mountain went into a lockdown condition.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
unidentified		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Interesting on Cheyenne Mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you think Cheyenne Mountain would go into a lockdown condition for flares?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		See, unless I was afraid it was going to melt through a mile of granite.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are very hot flares.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Thermite flares or something.
unidentified		as uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		which one of your book uh...
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the title of your book?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		How to Build a $125 Million Dollar UFO Detector.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		where is it available uh...
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		you can get that from uh...
		Fuel 114.
		Huntington Beach, California, 92646.
		Again, that's Ron McGeer, 8855 Atlanta.
		Box 114.
		Huntington Beach, 92646.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		92646.
		Got it.
		Daryl, how about you?
		Do you have a book?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got a whole group of things from our implant studies as well as my book is not going to come out for a year, but I have some resource material and other things, and it's all on voicemail for those that are interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a number.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		The voicemail number is 281-587-5455.
		It also has a number on there for people to contact me in reference to their events and a host of other things for them as well.
		281-587-5455.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I wanted to get that in.
		Would you both like to do one more hour and take calls?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Could I mention I'll be speaking at your chat club this May 16th?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		The one that's on the Learning Light Center, Orange County Chat Club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Just finished the presentation for us.
unidentified		Wow.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Very similar to that.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And also I'll be at the Little Alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, up near me.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen.
		Hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		I can't save my life without your love Oh baby, don't leave me this way, no I
		I can't exist, I'll surely miss your tender kiss Don't leave me this way Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you Now come on down and do what you gotta do You started this fire down in my soul Now can't you see it's
		burning, out of control It needs to be so nice Lonely days and lonely nights Take a drink and feel the same Take a long way home Take a long way home You never see what you wanna see Or ever playing to the gallery
		Take a long way home Take a long way home When you're up on the stage, it's so unbelievable Oh, I'm a girl I'm going to be coming on
		Then your wife seems to think of the rules inside you Out of the vanity With no way out Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
		yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And it's real that your life's become a catastrophe.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		It's great to be here.
		We have two experts in their respective fields, Ronald Regier, who designed spy satellites and knows a lot about them, and Darrell Sims, who's been investigating abductions, implants, along with Dr. Roger Lear for a long, long time now, and was himself CIA at one time.
		And we'll get back to them and your questions in a moment.
		We'll try and vote the best part of the hour to your questions.
unidentified		The End.
		End.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, back to my guests, Ronald Regeer and Daryl Sims.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		I have a satellite question.
		I've always wanted to know this.
		Ron, maybe you can tell me.
		Do you believe that we have satellites up there now that can literally look through buildings?
unidentified		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say certainly?
unidentified		Yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, we can tell if somebody was inside the building and has been out of that building for maybe an hour or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now how would you do that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Infrared signature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean it remains?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		You touch you hold a glass in your hand and the heat from your hand transfers into that glass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the glass stays warm for a while.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		And that's one of the ways we were able to find out where Terry Waite was.
		I wanted to clarify something on it.
		Terry Waite, I thought about it because at one of my lectures, one of the people thought that maybe everybody had an implant or something like that.
		We have, and Daryl confirmed that we have a lot of ground assets, that's people.
		And if we were able to, let's say, find Terry Waite and know where he was and at the same time have monitoring from space on that area, then let's say we got notification from our ground assets that three people left a particular building and Kerry Waite was in the center.
		And we could track those three spots, if you will, as they went from one spot to another.
		Then we could see who was where and what was left over.
		So that's how we did that.
		We tracked Kerry Waite that way.
		It wasn't a matter of any special signal that anybody has.
		It's a matter of being able to get corroborative evidence from the ground and then following that lead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is incredible.
		Absolutely incredible.
		All right, back to the lines.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ronald Regeer, Daryl Sims, and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		How are you tonight, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utah, yes, sir.
unidentified		Actually, I'd like to say I'm not only a first-time caller, I'm a first-time listener tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, glad you stumbled into us then.
unidentified		Not typically in a talk radio, but I find your program extremely fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is not typical talk radio.
unidentified		It is not, I can tell you that.
		Yeah.
		You made a mention earlier to something which I'm surprised you didn't bring up tonight, considering the guests that you had, about a caller that called in about entering Area 51 and wandering around and apparently being deserted.
		And you were questioning to the movement of Area 51.
		Right.
		I've never been a real big space alien buff or anything like that.
		But just from knowledge that I have around here, being in Utah, I have heard of, and in fact last week somebody mentioned to me in passing in an armory about the movement of Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I don't, okay, we'll ask about that right now.
		It's a very good point.
		I don't believe it, personally.
		That is, that it has moved, because I live here in Perup, Nevada, and I'm going to tell this story again.
		But I can assure you that I could get off the air this morning, wait about an hour, hour and a half, drive not very far, about two or three miles away, and go by a VFW parking lot here, and they will have buses sitting out there.
		And on the side of the buses, three or four of them, it says, as plain as day, Area 51.
		And slowly but surely, wives and relatives will come and cars will park and people will get in the buses and these buses will roll away to Area 51.
		Now, why they put that on the side of the buses, I don't know, but I live here.
		I know it's true.
		I've been there and seen it.
		So there really is an Area 51.
		Do either one of you gentlemen know the current status of Area 51?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I don't personally.
		I do know, I think it was Popular Science had an article several months ago about new Area 51 near Green River, Utah.
		And I happen to have a campground at Mobile Home Park in Moab, which is fairly close by.
		And I drove out to that, and that's an old abandoned Nike base.
		And there's nothing there.
		They were planning on reinstituting that base and using it for testing of the anti-missile missile, firing a short-range, intermediate-range missile from that old Nike base down to White Sands, and then tracking it from space and also vectoring in Patriots.
		But that proposal fell through.
		So that, I think, was the start of the rumor.
		However, there's a lot of activity just starting up around Wendover, and I think that has to do with the destruction of some of our stockpiles of biological chemical weapons.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very good.
		Let us proceed.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ronald Regier.
		Darrell Sims and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi.
		This is Leonette from Flagstaff, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And my first question was for Darrell.
		He might have some memory of this or knowledge of this.
		In 1969, I was working for a radio station in Hawaii, and the emergency broadcast system was activated.
		And from what I was told, it was a nuclear attack alert, something on that order.
		No one in the station knew what to do.
		They all freaked, and so they did nothing.
		And then it was soon after that that they received a message saying that it had been a mistake.
		Somebody had put in the wrong tape somewhere on the continental United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
unidentified		Okay, and then after he answers that, I have another question for both of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, it is a I also remember that particular incident, and I also was working at a radio station when that occurred, and it scared the hell out of everybody, and they claimed that it was a simple mistake, that somebody, as she pointed out, had put in a wrong tape or whatever.
		But there were, you know, I know a little bit about it, and there were code words that had to come down.
		There were all kinds of things that had to go before the EBS was activated, EBS at that time.
		And I wonder if there could have been more to that story than we knew.
		Either one of you?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of anything about that.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Daryl?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about it.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I'd heard about it, but I don't know any of the particulars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Best we can do.
		Sorry, ma'am.
		Anything else?
unidentified		Okay.
		The other question I had was for both of them.
		I find it kind of a little coincidental that both of you were having phone problems to begin with at the beginning of this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did we.
unidentified		And that you had to go to other phones.
		Art Bell, it's been said before that he was being used for disinformation.
		And I'm wondering, is it possible that either one or both of you are part of that disinformation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good, good, good question.
		Hold on.
		It is a good question, you guys.
		After all, we've got one guy who was CIA and quit.
		We've got another who worked in the spy satellite business who quit.
		And a talk show host constantly being accused of being black ops.
		Now, how would you guys like to deny it?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I want to know when I'm going to get paid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's probably in cash.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll take it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Secret drop point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we know how these things work.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Small unmarked bills, I'll take them.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I guess there's no way, really, to convince anybody that believes that we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's what I've concluded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've given up on it.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Other than, like anything else in life, check what people do, and you'll find out the truth most of the time.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		This is true.
		I've talked to several people who claim to have alleged Roswell evidence.
		I've got two people between me and them.
		And the first question out of their mouth was, well, you're ex-CIA, so you're obviously suspect.
		I said, look, if I was going to spy on you, I wouldn't tell you up front.
		That's going to be the stupidest thing anybody could ever do in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but I mean, let's play along here for a second.
		How do I know, for example, that, in effect, you both aren't black ops and you're using me to spread disinformation here on the air?
		How do I know that?
		I don't know that, do I?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I don't see how you could actually prove it either one way or the other.
		And, of course, depending on the mentality of the individuals out there, My phone's rare.
		This is extremely rare.
		Let me make this very clear.
		I never have had this problem, Art, until I got on your program.
		So I think you're the guy.
		It's not me.
unidentified		It's you.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I've never had a problem with my phones until I got on your program.
		Every time I get on, it does this.
		I don't know why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It is unfortunately true, and I don't deny it.
		I don't.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Ronald Regeer and Daryl Sims and Art Bell, the black ops guy.
		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I think I mentioned to you that I worked out in the Marshall Islands at the Kwajalein Missile Range in 1988.
		That was pretty interesting.
		Right.
		I heard you mention fast computers.
		I was with a contractor, and we built the new mission control center out there, and they installed, I think the last liquid-cooled cray XMP supercomputer, digital vac systems, and all that.
		We basically, what we built was something like the Center in War Games, Mission Control, had an atomic clock and the supercomputers and all that kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		It was pretty interesting.
unidentified		And now, Art, I know you're into amateur radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
unidentified		Well, one of the islands that I worked on there had a deep space tracking radar.
		They called it Altier.
		150-foot dish.
		It was a VHF, deep space tracking radar.
		It put out 7.5 megawatts.
		How would you like to have a VHF transmitter like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I probably wouldn't be around to talk about it right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd probably be in a cancer ward somewhere.
unidentified		Yeah, I'll tell you, we had Russian trawlers that hung around, and legend goes that the Russian trawler got too close to the island, so they aimed this 150-foot dish at it and cranked it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would do it.
unidentified		It did an about-face.
unidentified		The sterilized Russians aboard, of course, they had smoke coming out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard a rumor about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a true story?
unidentified		It's kind of an island legend.
		Of course, it could have happened.
		But now, out there, with all of the surveillance gear that we had aimed at the sky, there had to have been things that they saw.
		I mean, this thing is, I don't know if you're familiar with the Kwadralene Atoll, but it's the largest coral atoll in the world.
		It has a lagoon that's 30 by 60 miles.
		And what they would do is they'd fire ICBMs from Vandenberg, and then the dummy warheads would land in the lagoon.
		They go out and recover the things.
		And, of course, you have all the telemetry and tracking and all this sort of thing going on.
		And I'm sure that as clear as the skies were out there, they had to have seen some things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, that really does bring up a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, I guess, Ron, mainly for you, all of these photographs and all of this evidence that they must have, any idea where it might be, how we might ever get to it or get it pried open?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Remember the No Such Agency or NSA?
unidentified		Yeah.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they have admitted to having 279 documents related to UFOs.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		They've released two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's roll through this again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		NSA has admitted to having 279 documents relating to UFOs and have released to date two.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does that information come from?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		That was in a lawsuit by citizens against UFO secrecy or cause versus the NSA.
unidentified		Really?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		So what is the state's secrecy concerning UFOs if the other 600 and some have not released?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		If they don't exist, what's the secrecy problem?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		What their claim is that revealing these data would show capabilities of some of our intelligence gathering, our signals, intelligence gathering capabilities.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		May I add to that our intelligence gathering capabilities in reference to UFOs in particular?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a cause internet item the other night about a UFO tracked by the Royal Air Force RAF traveling across the Atlantic in our direction, by the way, traveling at first at 17,000 miles per hour.
		It claimed two F-16s went up and tried to give chase.
		It accelerated to 24,000 miles per hour and must have deflated the egos of the two F-16 jockeys severely.
		But that is, and they claim they've got records of it.
		And that was a cause report.
		Other people doubt that it was a true report.
		Do either one of you know?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I have no knowledge of that.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		I have no way to verify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I keep trying.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dr. Lear and I, at first, we do have a brigadier general that works with us.
		And sometimes we do get things verified through him.
		And Michael Lenneman has verified his credentials and so on concerning some of the events that Roger and I have even seen together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael Lindeman has been very helpful in either confirming or knocking things down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a good researcher.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He's a good man.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He's a good people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either one of you have thoughts or theories concerning crop circles?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I've got a theory.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I believe some of them are probably hoaxes brought about by RAF squadrons using millimeter wavelength detectors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Some of them have the earmarks of an inter-squadron hoax.
		You know, from the standpoint of increased complexity, they've got the capability of the aircraft to fly at very high altitudes.
		And it wouldn't surprise me if some of them were actually caused by beam microwaves that would go down because the characteristics of some of the plants is the same as you get with microwaves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely correct.
		Dr. Levengood has confirmed that.
		Gentlemen, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		What do you think?
		You hearing the real thing, folks?
		Or disinformation?
unidentified		You'll listen to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 1st, 1998.
		In your shoes, I wouldn't worry none.
		While you and your friends are worrying about me, I'm better than lots of fun.
		Doubtless towers on the wall that don't bother me at all.
		Playing father turns the dog with the deck of 51.
		Smoking cigarettes and watching captains pretend to room.
		Now don't tell me I've nothing to do.
		Last night I dressed in tail pretend that I told the town.
		As long as I can dream, it's hard just to love the swing.
		The End
		The End Oh.
		Premiere Radio Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 1st, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
		Those of you who join at this hour, anything is possible tonight.
		Anything at all.
		Who knows?
		but then again that's kind of the way i like it Well, okay, back to our guests, Ronald Regier and Daryl Sims.
		Gentlemen, you're both back on the air again, and we are in the stretch run.
		So here we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello there on a cellular.
unidentified		Okay, yeah, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually?
unidentified		I'm, well, I just recently started listening to you.
		I moved out of Dallas out about 70 miles out of Dallas, Fort Worth area, out of the country.
		So I've listened to you on the way in now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what can we do for you?
unidentified		Should I give any background on that person I was talking about or just come up with a question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's up to you.
unidentified		Well, it's over 20 years ago.
		And I knew an individual.
		We worked booths together in the Gulf of Mexico.
		I was an engineer on his boat at that time.
		I later became a captain.
		He was a charter boat captain down in Florida and an Air Force Reserve officer.
		Had something to do with intelligence.
		And we were tied up one night out there.
		It was quiet.
		We didn't have anywhere to go.
		And we were playing a game of chess.
		And I was a UFO buff and read about it all the time.
		And I just happened to bring it up.
		I said, you know, I wonder if those things really exist because I've read about it.
		And it seems plausible.
		It wouldn't seem like this whole universe was created just for us alone.
		And I'm just really curious.
		And he got a real far-off look in his eyes.
		He said, I know they do.
		I said, what are you talking about?
		And he said, well, I had taken a photograph, a photographer, into a craft over, I think he mentioned somewhere in the Midwest, and took pictures.
		And he said, they took the beings out.
		And I guess they froze dissection later.
		He said, but don't say anything about this.
		And he got a startled look on his face.
		Don't you say anything about this?
		I'm still in the reserve.
		And I just wonder, is there any, you hear rumors about that sort of thing?
		Is there any basis to it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either one of you want to tackle that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I've just heard the rumors.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any evidence to support it, but I wouldn't be surprised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colin?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We can't immediately confirm anything for you.
		I don't know.
		You guys are sounding a little black op-y to me here lately.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't want to make things up, Art.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I'm not fantastic enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The truth is coming enough.
		I know, I know, I know.
		I'm just kidding.
		Wildguard Line, you're on the air with Ronald Regier, Daryl Sims, and Art Bella.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
		Art, two things.
		First of all, it's absolutely irrational for anybody to think that you're a blackout because before you hit the airways years back, you know better than I that the American press and media never covered anything on this.
		It was meant to be kept from the public.
		Why would the government put you on the air to bring all this information?
		It is just irrational.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have an answer for that, I'm afraid.
		Okay.
		The same answer the people who accuse me would give, and that is, well, I'm here for a very specific purpose to sort of deliver you slow release aspirin on the subject until finally you are all prepared for the big news.
		I mean, that's what they would say, believe me.
unidentified		Yeah, but I don't agree with it.
		One other thing.
		One of you guys said earlier that there had been reports of some aliens firing upon others.
		Back around 1974, 75 in the summer, I was at a party.
		It's important to say none of this group drinks at all.
		And we were breaking up about 3.30 in the morning.
		There's a golf course running east to west.
		It's about a mile in length.
		And as we were leaving, we were startled and went into the golf course and just the length of the golf course, no further east or west than that, there were curtains of light from the ground up to the sky, the whitest white that I had ever seen.
		Didn't look solid, and gigantic streams of light going up and down.
		We were all frightened.
		In fact, we were afraid to go home.
		Finally, we went back into the house.
		And with no other way of looking further for this, I did the only thing that I could.
		I consulted the I Ching just to see if it would say anything.
		And it was very strange.
		The answer said that what we bore witness to was a battle between the forces of light and the forces of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have no idea what I Ching is.
unidentified		Oh, it's an ancient Chinese oracle.
		It's called the Intellectual's Key to Divination.
		It's very sophisticated.
		And I'm surprised you haven't heard of it, but because, you know, you have a vast knowledge of metaphysical things.
		And the I Ching doesn't prove anything, but it's the Carl Wilhelm translation.
		It's about 800 pages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's not the rough equivalent of those.
		I remember when I was a kid, we had these black round balls, and you turn them upside down.
		No, a little message would come up in a window and tell you something.
unidentified		Oh, no, no, this is very, very high intellectual stuff.
		And it doesn't prove anything.
		It's just remarkable.
		I never forgot that.
		And my question would be, apropos, your guest saying that aliens had fired upon aliens.
		Does that guest know of any case where these lights were, well, if it's more than lights, it's impossible to describe.
		The paper had aborted the next day that it was the northern lights, but I don't believe that.
		Do they have any information on reasons like that?
		On what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On lights in the sky?
unidentified		Well, it was like if you can picture curtains of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that does sound like actually Aurora Borealis.
		Curtains of light is typically the way Aurora would be described.
		You gentlemen have anything beyond that?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I have nothing on that, Daryl?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you both still there?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I'm still there.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		This is Ron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and Daryl?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're both here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have anything on that either.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a case I investigated just a few weeks ago out in Southern California where a lady and her husband, and this is really strange, and apparently the dog all got picked up and taken somewhere.
		The dog comes back pregnant and has, I think it's five pups, and four of them all look totally different.
		And I don't mean a little different.
		I don't even mean different colored.
		I mean like different dogs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		They're not even close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Which was rather interesting.
		And anyway, she describes a rather strange curtain-like light that he mentioned.
		She said it was like it was a tear in the sky.
		And it was there for a while, and then it was gone.
		And she said, then something hit me, and I fell over.
		She said, I think it's lightning.
		And she said, but then I went back to the, my husband and I and the dog all go back and get into the little mobile home and sleep till 10 o'clock the next morning in the desert out there.
		And the kids wouldn't wake up either.
		She says, we don't know what happened.
		So this is her story concerning the light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		That is the way they describe northern lights.
		I used to live in Alaska, and they do kind of look like a curtain.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ronald Breguer, Daryl Sims, and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Terry.
		I'm calling from 1560K NZR Land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		We'll follow you anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to see you made it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		This is about an incident that happened back about 1985 between Jacksonville, Florida, and St. Augustine.
		We were heading into St. Augustine.
		Of course, we used to sit right out and watch the shots from work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And this happened at night.
		We were on our way back into St. Augustine.
		We just passed the bay where you can see the Atlantic.
		Real clear night, you know, full of stars, just a few cars on the road.
		All of a sudden, we see three objects that are falling in a triangular shape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And kept falling, and kept falling.
		Well, I'm from Edland Air Force Base.
		I'm used to seeing things fall out of the sky.
		So they continued to fall at the point where we finally pulled over.
		This was about 45 seconds worth to a minute where you're finally going, wait a minute, this is something strange.
		Getting brighter and brighter.
		Three cars ahead, our car, one car behind us, all pulled off the road.
		Looking up at this object, these three objects.
		Right as they got on the horizon, I mean, they couldn't have been more than 500 feet above the water.
		Three separate directions.
		Just as if within a blink of an eye, one went north, one went south, one went west.
		Wow.
		Out of sight.
		I mean, we're talking, we watched them fall for close to one minute, then totally out of sight in three different directions.
		A little odd gravity pull for meteors, I thought.
		But as my father would say, he is not allowed to divulge anything he says can or will be held against him.
		So I'm kind of wanting to know what, Ron and Daryl, if they'd heard many sightings down by the Cape area.
		I know over in the panhandle, I'm really from Destin, so I'm real familiar with a news area.
		This was just on the news.
		Again, the good old flare situation.
		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine, thank you, that anything that would be near the Cape would be very carefully observed, wouldn't it, folks?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yeah.
		We keep a good eye on that.
		But I haven't had an opportunity.
		My records ended 1992, and I'd have to have a better date than sometime in 85.
unidentified		Sure, sure.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I believe it was 1985 she mentioned.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Is that right, Terry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have very nearly given up on taking individual sighting reports.
		I really prefer not to do that because more Americans than not have seen something.
		And it's anecdotal.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem I have, and this is give you an idea of the complexity of my research, is that you've seen the science fiction movies where they have the big reel-to-reel tape recorders that stand in six-foot-tall consoles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		We have those.
		Those are real.
		And each one of those tape takes 15 minutes of data.
		And that's about a 7 to 8 inch stack of 11 by 14 printed outs from our satellite readouts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Now, we cut the first five minutes and the last five minutes off the tape.
		It's overlapped with the next tape and the one before it to make sure we don't miss any data.
		So that means each tape has five minutes of data we look at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		And you figure out how many tapes we have in each day, and each one of those tapes resulting in a seven and a half to eight inch stack of printout.
		Then you can get an idea of when we go back to reconstruct, if we didn't get a detection at the time, what we have to wade through, and that's waded through manually by analysts.
		So it's a big test.
		So we have to have within maybe 10 minutes, if it's a real phenomenal event, to be able to go backtrack later on.
		And then that's assuming we save the tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many times has our country gone to a significant level of alert that the American public is not aware of?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Every time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, every time.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		It's always after the fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, we are never told about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, we know about the Cuban Missile Crisis.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I have a feeling there have been a lot of other times.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Most of the time we find out about it from other nations.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		This is truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or 60 Minutes does a program on it 20 years after the fact.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Ronald Bregeer, Darrell Sims, and Art Bell.
unidentified		Yes, hello, Art.
		Hi.
		I'd like to ask your guests tonight if our spy satellites are that sophisticated, then why did it take them a couple of months to find a downed aircraft a few months back?
		And if they have any comment on Stephen Greer's comment last night about the secret government or MJ-12's all right, we'll try and cover all of that if we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was an A-10 aircraft that went down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If our spy satellites are so damn good, how come they didn't find it?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Okay, first off, as I said before, we've got two systems.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		We've got the geosynchronous and the elliptical lower Earth orbiters.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		If the lower Earth orbiter isn't there, it's not going to see it.
		The geosynchronous orbit, it may not have had the signature.
		There's a lot of air traffic, and we just don't look at airplanes.
		They aren't targets of, events are targets of interest.
		So there's no reason we would have looked at it.
		After the fact, unless they could come up with some pretty good times, but there was no reason at that time to keep those tapes.
		So until we knew there was a problem, we wouldn't have been keeping the tapes, especially since it was Continental United States, which doesn't pose a threat at all to most of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ron, you've been out of it for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel like you are conversant with the knowledge of what the state of the art is right now?
unidentified		Or are you forced to sort of project?
unidentified		I'm still there.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He's still in it.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm still in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're still in it, so you don't have to guess at all?
unidentified		I don't have to guess at all.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		No.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		He just can't tell you.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		If I can't tell you, I'd say.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		I'd say I couldn't.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		You have to guess.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		But no, there's so many aircraft.
		Think of all the aircraft flying around.
		We don't want to try to track all those.
		The data would just overwhelm the system.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a question for Ron.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Was this Warthog, was this HN, was it armed?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		As far as I know, it had, I think it was two 500-pound bombs.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that therefore is my question.
		I'm going to break my code of silence and confess all.
		If this thing had two 500-pound bombs and was armed to the teeth and heading somewhere, and in my opinion, was on a direct course to somewhere, and probably, just in my thinking, it was well watched and people did know where it was.
		And I don't know that your particular group had any knowledge of that.
		Probably didn't.
		But somebody did.
		And somebody was loose flying around with these things.
		And the question is, why was he doing this?
		Why did he go out there?
		And why did it take him forever to do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me add to that.
		At the point that he broke away from the group that he was flying with without permission, surely that group reported that fact.
		That would have turned the spotlight on this aircraft, and they would have diverted whatever assets they had to begin looking at where it was going.
		Isn't that logical?
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		This is an intelligence problem, is what I'm saying.
		They knew all along, and this was not to be reported.
		And the question where that craft went down, if anyone out there in the audience will watch and look at that situation carefully and where it landed and why and the location, everything, you'll come up with a story that will, I assure you, be equal to something that the intelligence community has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know more about this than you can say.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		But I could tell you, but I'd kill Ron.
unidentified		No, no, no.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Or at least break his arm.
unidentified		No, I'm not.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		The truth of these stories, this does not need to be left alone.
		There was some very important reason that pilot did what he did and went to the place he went.
		And if you'll look at that situation carefully, you'll find that there's a lot of knowledge there.
		Some of the finest minds, believe it or not, don't work for the United States government.
		Some of the finest people out there are listening to your program, and they can themselves, with the same data, the same information, have access to all kinds of things and can come up with some pretty brilliant ideas.
		You don't have to work for the government and have a GS rating to be able to think.
		And a lot of these people can if they just have the data or know where to go get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'll tell you, we could do hours and hours and hours on this kind of thing.
		Yes.
		But we can't because, at least not this night, because it's coming to a close, the program that is.
		I want to thank both of you, and I want to have both of you back.
		Wonderful.
		So for now, God, great service, guys.
		I hope neither one of you said anything that's going to get you even maimed.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Could Ron plug his book one more time?
		It's a fabulous book.
		I've got it myself at the plug away.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, $20 plus $3 shipping and handling.
		Order it from Ron McGuerre Research Investigations, 8855 Atlanta, 114.
		Huntington Beach, California, 92646.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
		I hope you sell a gazillion of them.
		Thank you both.
derrel sims ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
ron regehr ▲ ● ▼		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's it, folks.
		Boy, wasn't that interesting.
		All right, we'll do it again.
		For now, I'm sorry, we're out of time.
		If you get it, I'll see you Sunday on Dreamland.
		If not, Monday night, Tuesday morning.

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