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April 20, 1998 - Art Bell

02:35:23

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - We Never Went to the Moon - Wayne Green

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	If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, send it to him at area code 702-727-8499.
	702-727-8490.
	702-727-8499.
	Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Well, good morning everybody.
	Coming up in just a moment from New England.
	Is Wayne Green.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Good morning everybody.
	I just got a panicked, panicked call from Kent.
	interview last week and uh... he believes his life is in danger right now and i'm
	gonna try and work out what we're going to have to do about this uh...
	and can't if you're listening which i know you are
	again get hold of richard uh... get a hold of richard
	and we'll take it from there when green is a pioneer
	a modern-day pioneer
	he comes from a family of pioneers a descendant of john all been and priscilla
	His great-grandfather was a homeopathy pioneer, the town doctor in Littleton, New Hampshire, where Wayne's father and Wayne were both born.
	His grandfather was an inventor and founder of Citgo.
	Wayne's father was an aviation pioneer, founding the first transatlantic airline.
	As a youngster, fliers like Frank Hawks, And Amelia Earhart often were dinner guests.
	My, my.
	Wayne has helped us have cellular telephones, personal computers, compact discs.
	Now he's editing and publishing a journal on cold fusion, which he predicts will one day be the largest industry in the world.
	Wayne's ham radio hobby, one that I share with him, has provided him with a lifetime of adventure as it has me.
	For instance, it got him on a submarine during World War II, As an electronic technician.
	He's written a book about his submarine adventures.
	Then it got him into radio as an engineer, announcer, and finally a DJ.
	Then television as a cameraman.
	Then a director.
	Then he quit all that to manufacture a completely new loudspeaker design, which within three years would become the largest selling speaker in the country with seven factories.
	In the ham radio field, He was one of the first pioneers of narrowband FM, which is now the standard for most VHF communications.
	Then he got interested in ham radio teletype and began a magazine to help share the excitement with as many others as possible.
	This led to his being the editor of a ham magazine and eventually starting his own, 73, which he still publishes 38 years later.
	He's pioneered slow scan television, single sideband, and then ham repeaters, which resulted in cellular telephones.
	Wayne has visited hams in 132 countries so far, operated his own station from some really weird places like a desert island in the Caribbean, Beirut in Lebanon, Afghanistan, Syria, the Korean DMZ, Kathmandu, Swaziland, the Fiji Islands, the King's Palace in Jordan, and the famous U.S.
	Embassy in Tehran.
	He organized an all-ham hunting safari in Kenya, and an audience for 73 hams with the Pope.
	Wow!
	Wayne's latest pioneering has to do with health.
	We're going to pin him down on this one.
	He's convinced that anyone can get over any illness and add at least 20 to 30 years of healthy living to their lives.
	He's also convinced that anyone who wants, wishes to, can make all the money they want and even get other people to happily pay them to learn what they need to know to do it.
	As a publisher, Wayne has started 25 successful magazines, with two of them getting to be the largest and third largest magazines in the country.
	Vogue beat him out for second place.
	Wayne's taking it easy these days on a 200 acre New Hampshire farm.
	While still publishing two magazines and writing a series of books, here is Wayne Green.
	Hi, Wayne.
	Hi, good morning.
	Great to have you again.
	Well, thank you.
	Wayne, we're going to go all over the place tonight, but here's where I thought I would start.
	You know, you're a big health nut, and you claim, as I just read, that any disease, virtually any disease, can be cured with the right kind of a treatment.
	Linda McCartney just died.
	She died of breast cancer, Wayne.
	She died doing all the right things.
	Living the healthiest life you can imagine.
	She was on a vegetarian diet.
	She had the very best treatment available.
	And yet, she died.
	Well, of course, we have to define the very best treatment available.
	If she followed Lorraine Day's recipe, I think she would have recovered just as Lorraine did.
	And I was very impressed with your interview with her, and I've been talking with her, and she sent me her books, and she is saying the same things that I have discovered after reading hundreds of books about this subject.
	And that is that you can get over even cancer if you rebuild your immune system.
	And that means stopping with the poisons, stop putting poisons in your body.
	Mm-hmm.
	Well, she had done that.
	And number two is to give your body the nutrients that it needs, all of the missing minerals, and lots of water, which most of us don't do, and that's water without fluoride and without chlorine and dioxin in it.
	We have mercury in our teeth and we kind of say, well, gee, everybody has that.
	Well, everybody is dying, too.
	Well, yeah, we're all going to eventually die.
	Well, yes, but our cells are good for about 150 years.
	Well, nobody's making that.
	There was one lady who made it to about 120 years.
	Right, yeah.
	But even she was poisoning herself.
	She smoked up until she was about 100.
	I know.
	I take great solace in that fact, by the way.
	Well, my father smoked until he was about 65 and died 20 years later.
	At 85?
	At 87.
	Oh, 87.
	All right.
	That's a pretty damn good life.
	The last 10 years were on an oxygen bottle.
	Well, that's not so good.
	No.
	But there are lots of people who at that age end up on oxygen bottles anyway.
	Without smoking?
	Oh, yeah.
	Sure.
	In their 80s or 90s, sure.
	They begin to have lung... There's plenty of people who get emphysema and even lung cancer without smoking.
	Now, how do they get it?
	Probably the same way I might from breathing my father's smoke for years.
	See, we're going to have an argument about all this.
	I think that the death statistics from smoking, now while I certainly agree that smoking probably helps cause cancer, I think it's far from the only ingredient.
	Oh, I agree.
	Well, I agree on that.
	Oh, there's radiation that comes from the ground in certain parts of the country.
	You could get lung cancer from breathing in your basement.
	That's right.
	And you can also get ill just from the magnetism coming from water flowing under your building.
	I'll be darned.
	That I didn't know about.
	But my point is, Wayne, that a lot of people, like Linda McCartney, sadly, though they do the best Well, I'll be more convinced if I knew more about it.
	I mean she really was, died anyway.
	It did not save her.
	So we don't know all the answers.
	We know some of the answers and we know sometimes things like what Dr. Day had to say work.
	But Wayne, sometimes they don't.
	Well I'll be more convinced if I knew more about it.
	The books that I've read and I've reviewed these in my guide to books certainly seem
	to cover just about every aspect of this field.
	I've done an awful lot of research on this.
	First, since I just mentioned the magnetic fields from water flowing under the building, if you read Chris Bird's book, The Divining Hand, he goes into that quite well and points out that this is not just some mystical forest, but it's been measured With electronic instruments.
	I think one night you and I also talked about mercury in the teeth, right?
	Oh yeah.
	And I recall that we opened the line for some dentists or something like that because I told you my dentist said, look, that's baloney.
	And a lot of dentists say, that's baloney.
	They would argue with you and they would say that this is ridiculous.
	A properly done filling does not leak enough mercury to cause you any problem at all.
	But they can't back that up with any research.
	The book by Hal Huggins is good on that.
	Another one by Lydia Bronte is marvelous on it.
	And I have several more showing the research that's been done on that.
	And it is just conclusive art.
	Well, then why is it not conclusively embraced by dentists?
	Because if they embrace that, they open themselves for lawsuits for billions of dollars.
	Another conspiracy, right?
	Of course.
	Look at the conspiracies with the AMA and the various cancer cures that have come along.
	And these are pretty well documented.
	Well, yes, of course with Dr. Day and then with Bob Guccione, who I talked to.
	He's right in the middle of A whole lot of legal action in that arena.
	And so, look, I don't reject the idea that there can be conspiracies.
	There can be people, for financial reasons, hiding things.
	I don't reject it, but I don't automatically embrace it either.
	Well, I don't either.
	They have to have a lot of evidence before I say, well, I guess I agree with that.
	But here we're talking about a guy who says we never went to the moon.
	You say we never went to the moon, right?
	I say that I've been convinced of that, yes.
	How?
	Well, it started out with Rene's book, National Moon of America.
	And when that arrived, I said, oh boy, here's another kook.
	Because I get a lot of really weird stuff coming into me.
	And I read it, and he made 30 really good, solid points in there.
	I said, golly, I think he must be right.
	And then I read Bill Keising's We Never Went to the Moon.
	And then I read Moongate by Brian.
	If We Never Went to the Moon, Wayne, then that's the biggest conspiracy of them all.
	That is a corker.
	No question about it.
	Today we're going through a big question mark with regard to the Cydonia pictures that we're supposedly getting delivered from Mars.
	And a lot of people are screeching conspiracy.
	Well now, if you put yourself in the position of NASA, where they were told by the President, by Kennedy, that we're going to go to the moon.
	And they were budgeted $40 billion for doing that.
	Yes.
	And then they discovered, hey, we can't do this.
	We don't have the technology to do this.
	So then the Russians also went to the moon?
	Oh, they sent probes.
	No, well, let's see, that's right, they never sent a man.
	No, they never sent a man.
	And they wanted to be there first.
	And they discovered that you couldn't do it.
	Why can't you put NASA in that position, and now they allow pictures of Mars to show artifacts?
	The pressure is going to be on.
	We've got to send somebody to Mars.
	How are they going to explain to people... Convince me, Wayne.
	How did we not... How did we fake the moon thing?
	Most of all, I guess, tell me why it's impossible.
	Okay.
	Well, first of all, You look at some of the pictures now.
	I have looked over every available picture that I could find of this, and there's supposed to be thousands of them.
	And it turns out that there's about a dozen pictures that you can get, and that's all.
	And when you look at those, number one, you'll see that not one picture shows any stars.
	And there's a good reason for that.
	I think there is, too.
	It's because the camera didn't have enough light sensitivity.
	Uh, to pick the stars up, and, uh, that's not surprising.
	Look, I can take my CCD, One Lux or better, camera outside, and point it at the stars, and I don't see a star anywhere.
	The best I can do is get a moon.
	Well, when the astronauts first went out into space, they remarked on how incredibly bright the stars were.
	Right, they ought to be bright and steady without the atmospheric flicker.
	Exactly.
	So, none of these pictures show any.
	Now, if you put yourself in the place of NASA, if they show stars, there's going to be some astronomer somewhere that says, well, now let's see if those stars are in the right place for those people standing on the moon at that particular moment.
	Ah, I see.
	I was going to say, if you were going to fake somebody being on the moon, you'd put stars in there.
	Right.
	Only if you knew exactly where they were going to be from that position.
	That's a good point.
	But I honestly think that I'm right.
	Now, they didn't have very good cameras back then, Wayne, and if you take a good CCD outside right now... Well, they had Hasselblads.
	Yeah, they had Hasselblads.
	They don't come much better than that.
	I suppose not, but if you have a lighted item in the foreground, like an astronaut or like the surface of the moon which they had lighted and was lighted, then you're not going to see anything behind it way out and very weak like stars.
	They certainly got shots of the Earth.
	Yep.
	Number two.
	But you went right over that.
	How did they get the shots of the Earth?
	Oh, heck, that's not hard.
	We're taking pictures of Earth from our low-Earth satellites.
	Oh, but they got it with the moon's horizon there.
	Mm-hmm.
	Earthrise.
	That's not difficult to do.
	They have that on the movie Destination Moon, which was, you know, what, 10 years or 15 years earlier.
	All right, so let's leave that as a question mark.
	No stars in the photographs.
	I know that's true.
	One of the things that you notice when you're watching the, looking at the pictures or watching the videos of the moon, is that they're kicking up dust.
	And that they're making footprints in the dust.
	Now, a scientist, Fred Whipple, of the Smithsonian, says, I don't think he can do that.
	of the Smithsonian.
	Yes.
	Says, I don't believe you can do that.
	Kick up dust?
	Right.
	Why not?
	Because, well, what they did at North American Aviation was run a test.
	And they evacuated a jar with dust in it.
	Yes.
	And they dropped a steel ball on it.
	And it just barely made a dent.
	It doesn't kick up any dust at all because it takes atmosphere Between the dust particles to make it dust.
	Well, yeah, but motion.
	I mean, if you, uh, when you walk, there's kinetic energy.
	And there's motion until it would kick it up and the moon has what, about an eighth, uh, is it an eighth gravity or something like that?
	One-sixth.
	One-sixth gravity.
	So, um, the dust would kick, some of it would go up and come down very slowly.
	The dust should, according to the tests that have been done, be like hard packed dirt.
	And not kick up at all.
	Well, and a steel ball should just about bounce on it.
	Um, why?
	It's no more dense?
	Because there's no atmosphere to hold the particles apart.
	Yes, but a steel ball, at whatever weight it is, at one-sixth gravity, if there is dust there, is going to displace dust when it falls.
	Right?
	No.
	It's going to make a slight dent, just a very slight one.
	Nevertheless, there is some energy there as the ball hits the dust.
	The dust is not going to kick up, and when you look at the movies, they're kicking up dust several inches high.
	As I recall, they were hop-skipping along too at a pretty good rate, weren't they?
	Uh, yes, but not at the rate, or not at the hopping that you would expect at one-sixth gravity.
	Uh, they have one place, one place on a video where they are jumping up and down, and for some reason, that particular part of the video, the foreground is obscured by the lens so that you can't see what they're jumping on.
	And it looks like they're jumping on a, uh, a trampoline.
	All right.
	All right.
	Hold on, Wayne.
	We're at the bottom of the hour here.
	I don't know.
	I don't buy it.
	I think we did go to the moon.
	At least I think we did.
	And I'll listen to the rest of the evidence.
	It is one of the most controversial things Wayne Green talks about, so I thought we'd kick that one off right away.
	Did we or did we not go to the moon?
	Wayne says no, and we'll hear the rest of the evidence.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	Now again, here's Art Bell.
	to the west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico. 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255. Now again, here's Art Bell. Once again, here I am. This is some really
	good stuff, and I'm still not saying who it is.
	A lot of you know, some of you don't.
	Soon I will tell, but... I don't care.
	Listen for a moment.
	The rain is inside my feet, and the trees around me.
	In the trees and mountains, in the ash and cloak, and the birch and yule, and the dry and some ribbons, hey, and all
	the snow and the breathless moon.
	You'll prove it all tonight The shadow of sun between us appears
	Oh, it's the light of night Oh, that's good stuff, isn't it?
	We've found a clear path tonight The sun is lighting up the morning
	What does that sound like to you?
	The deep sun is out again We breathe together again
	Wayne?
	like an early steven x i said i'm art bell and this is supposed to go to a point where
	you can see your time to prove to me and to you that if we never went to the
	moon and we'll get back to him in a moment
	once again when green wing on
	Back to the moon for a moment.
	I really have trouble with this, Wayne.
	I think we went to the moon.
	I really do.
	Let me give you a couple of friends here.
	Okay.
	Sure.
	I have watched videos of the people, of the guys on the moon, and they are talking back and forth with Houston.
	Yeah.
	There's no sound delay.
	None.
	Now, how do they do that?
	How do they do that?
	It takes them almost two seconds to make that trip.
	That is correct.
	And, you know, I've worked moon bounce, so I know what it sounds like.
	Well, are you going back to when they originally did it, or going back to coverage, you know, video that you've seen since?
	Because obviously they could have taken the delay out for presentation purposes later.
	Yeah, that's possible.
	Um, one other factor, or a number of other factors.
	Sure.
	Um, a, um, a ham friend of mine, who has written articles for me and I've known for many years, uh, wrote and said, look, that I was the head of data processing for NASA, uh, back in the seventies.
	And that I was looking through one of the storerooms one day, looking for a tape that I could use.
	And I found one and I put it on to see what was on it.
	Yes.
	And he said it was the complete Apollo 11 trip.
	All of the displays and so forth.
	And he said, I did a thesis on that at college so I knew that trip very well.
	And he said the only problem with the tapes was that they were all, or the tape, was that it was dated five months before the trip.
	Oops.
	Well, how about a simulator?
	Sure.
	Look, I'm just doing my best here to give answers to what you're saying, and that would be the obvious... Now, they brought back 800 pounds of rocks.
	Right.
	And according to Rene, he says these rocks, according to a number of experts who looked at them, look an awful lot like what we have down in Antarctica.
	Right.
	I got a letter from a ham who said, look, I was in Antarctica.
	and i picked up eight hundred pounds of rocks and i put them in uh... crates and ship them to nasa
	you you uh... are you serious yeah i've published this in my editorial
	is this ham alive yeah sure will he say that on the radio i'll bet he will
	he did this uh at he was solicited by nasa to do this Yep.
	To send them 800 pounds of rocks.
	Why would they go to a ham?
	Why wouldn't they go to... I think that was just scientificity.
	...NSA, CIA, whatever.
	Why wouldn't they go to a super-secret agency who would go get the rocks and have them flown back secretly?
	I don't know.
	But that's what he said he did.
	And he didn't know what it was for.
	And until I started writing about this in my editorials, it didn't connect for him.
	Another thing, we watched the videos, and there are several videos, Sherry's doing a little project on this, and there are several videos that show both astronauts on the moon at the same time.
	Yes.
	And the camera moves to follow them.
	Now, how'd they do that?
	Well, I'm trying to remember who's behind the camera.
	I think it was a... At times... I don't know, Wayne.
	Now, I have no answer to that one.
	Also, there's a visor photograph.
	You can see reflections in the visor.
	Yes.
	Of two people.
	How do they do that?
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	The amount of radiation that you have in space... Yes.
	From the solar flares.
	According to the scientific estimates, once you get outside of the Van Allen Belt, it takes about six feet of lead to protect you from that.
	So that you can stay alive.
	To keep you from getting a fatal dose?
	Right.
	Now, the LEM, the LEM, was made of Now, I have a question.
	Would this be under a condition of a flare?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Well, they were rolling the dice on that one.
	Well, during the trip, it was very difficult to find the number of solar flares that occurred during their trips, but persistence paid off because that was kept classified.
	And there were a number of solar flares during the trips, a number that they really couldn't have survived.
	The skin of the limb is foam plastic with two sheets of like aluminum foil, one on the inside, one on the outside, and not enough to protect the person from solar flares.
	So the radiation out there, which is what the A number of people suspect kept the Russians from venturing out beyond the Van Allen Belt.
	Well, I don't know how that was going to prevent us from going to Mars.
	I'm not sure about that one, and I have interviewed a number of astronauts who also really didn't have an answer for that.
	What they said was that it was a roll of the dice, they knew there was danger, and had there been a significant flare, There could have been mortal danger, they admitted that.
	Now, their story was that there was no such flare, and you're saying that's wrong.
	I'm saying that there definitely were flares.
	I believe the number is 26 flares during their various trips.
	Well... Because they have flares every day.
	Why do you think the astronauts, the majority of them who went to the moon, who participated in the Apollo program, all have had desperate troubles?
	Marriage troubles?
	Because they have to keep drinking from their wives and from everybody.
	Drinking problems, really serious problems.
	And you recall, Mitchell told you that he didn't remember what happened when he was on the moon.
	Well, no, what he said was that he didn't remember his emotions when he was there.
	Yeah, I remember that.
	Yeah.
	Another thing that Rene pointed out that I thought was interesting was the number of astronauts that died strangely just before the moon trips, with five of them dying in their own planes in one year.
	Well, are you convinced, or is it like 98%, 99%?
	Right up in there, yeah.
	It would take a lot to unconvince me.
	I've read the books that these people have written, that the astronauts have written, and they almost don't say anything about the moon.
	It's all about the preparation and their lives and so forth, and they have almost nothing to say about the moon.
	That is true.
	That really is true.
	And when you ask them in person about the moon, they're very... And as a matter of fact, we had a debate between Ed Mitchell and Richard Hoagland.
	Right.
	I heard that.
	You heard it.
	And Ed Mitchell actually got to the point where he said he had an open mind with regard to the things that Richard said were on the moon.
	That really blew me away because if you were there and you had looked all around the horizon and you would look and you didn't see glass structures rising into the sky, there would be no doubt about it.
	You wouldn't end up saying, well, I'll keep an open mind on the subject.
	You'd say, hey, you're full of you-know-what.
	I was there, buddy, and there was no such thing.
	Right?
	And if you saw something like that, we would have so many chips going back there that it would be, uh, subtle.
	But, but to imagine that our own government has conducted a conspiracy of this size, I mean, it's just, it's, it's absolutely mind-boggling.
	And then it makes smaller conspiracies, like, well, gee, are we getting the real photographs of Mars?
	Well, those seem very insignificant by comparison.
	The ET and the UFO thing, that's not very insignificant.
	And you have documented that up and down the kazoo.
	I agree.
	Okay.
	Well, well, do I agree?
	I certainly agree, Wayne, that there are things that are traversing our atmosphere and flying In our skies that are totally inexplicable.
	Now that doesn't mean that I know first person that there are extraterrestrials piloting craft, because I don't know that.
	Well, we can't know everything first hand.
	We can't know about the atom and we can't know about a lot of things.
	We get so involved with things the way they look to be.
	For instance, I can understand why everybody got upset when Galileo was saying that the earth went around the sun instead of the sun going around the earth because we can all see the sun going up and we can see it going down.
	It caused big trouble.
	And we have a similar problem with the concept of time.
	Time is linear.
	We can feel it.
	We see it.
	We live it.
	And the idea that time is something else that beyond what we can see, feel, and experience is just awfully difficult to get to live with.
	Well, look here.
	I interview theoretical physicists, some of the best minds in America, and they're telling me right now that they believe that time travel is indeed going to be possible.
	I mean, they're going from one day when they said, impossible, not a chance, today you interview the brightest minds in America and they're saying, oh yes, oh yes, there's going to be time travel.
	Well, we have precognition.
	Yes, I believe that.
	I know that.
	And, well, not only know it, it is proven, thoroughly proven, scientifically.
	There's a book, The Conscious Universe, by Dean Radden, that just demolishes any skeptic with the mathematics of it.
	I have no doubt.
	That's one I can give you first-hand.
	I've had it in several cases.
	That explains, or that brings up the whole question of what the heck time is.
	It does.
	It absolutely does.
	I had a fellow visiting me here who was an expert on dowsing just a couple of days ago, and we got talking about this, and I suddenly got the idea, look, if we think of time as being, you know, with us being so locked into the linear time, this explains how people can have angels How people can have spirit guides.
	I agree.
	And so forth.
	And I suspect that angels and spirit guides are our own souls, for the lack of a better word, that are communicating with us in this timeless area.
	That may be.
	As a matter of fact, in the hour before you were on, I interviewed a young lady.
	I don't know whether you heard it or not.
	Yup.
	Oh, you did?
	Good.
	Then you heard this terrifying account I think you did right to tell her to go to an exorcist.
	uh... hugging at her to the point where she had scratches on her legs
	and uh... and she is being uh...
	pursued and i've been pursued by this thing for years now
	you believe i i think you did right to tell her to go to an exorcist
	because maybe
	some part of her that's doing that It may be.
	It may have been her daughter, as I suggested.
	So then you believe there are evil entities, there are good entities, or angels, or guides, or whatever you want to call them.
	I suspect that angels are ourselves.
	I've never heard you talk about this before.
	Well, I haven't talked about it.
	I haven't.
	I've just started thinking about it recently, and you'll see it in my editorials.
	Really?
	Are you writing about this as well?
	Oh, sure.
	Let me hear that again.
	You said you suspect angels are ourselves.
	Angels are us.
	Right.
	And the spirit guides, Hilarion, Seth, and so forth, I think are the The spirits of the people that are contacting.
	Every major composer has said, the music comes to me from somewhere.
	And you know, John Philip Sousa said that every one of his marches came to him when he was kind of meditating, and all of a sudden it came to him completely written.
	And Mozart reported the same thing as did Beethoven and many other composers.
	I've said that myself, Wayne.
	You do a lot of writing, I know.
	Actually, it was not true, Wayne, of my first book.
	I wrote an autobiography, and it was incredibly painful because it was like going through a full-life review.
	Oh, sure.
	It was horrid.
	The quickening.
	That one just came out.
	And you did a nice job on it.
	It just came out.
	You got it here and you did a nice job.
	Thank you.
	That's very kind.
	I'm not even trying to plug the book here.
	I'm just trying to say you're right.
	Many of the things that I write, I just sit down and say, an idea comes to me.
	You know, from who knows where.
	Yes, but we are creative beings, Wayne.
	Are we not?
	Are we really going to sit here and suggest that we are in effect channeling this information, or this information is coming to us from some... Channeling it from ourselves, in this non-time zone.
	This is our consciousness, which is forever.
	It's part of our consciousness comes down to earth every so forth or up or out or whatever
	into lifetimes But when I hypnotize people I used to be a psychotherapist
	and I found that many times I had to go back into past lives to resolve present life
	problems past lives So you believe you believe anybody has past lives you
	believe in reincarnation Absolutely.
	I didn't know that.
	I had no idea you believed in reincarnation.
	Oh, well, if you read any of the books on the subject, they don't leave any wiggle room.
	But wait a minute.
	The church, they've got quite a bit to say about that.
	Well, I have a little bit of argument with the church on a few things.
	I'll bet you do.
	All right, Wayne, hold on.
	In celebration of this revelation, Here you go, folks.
	Listen to this one.
	We'll talk more next hour.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I was a highwayman.
	Along the coach roads I did ride.
	With sword and pistol by my side.
	Many a young maid lost her marbles to my trade.
	Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade.
	The masters hung me in the spring of twenty-five.
	But I am still alive.
	I was a sailor.
	I was a sailor, I was born upon the tide With a sea I did abide
	I sailed the school around the whole of New Mexico I went along with Merle, the mainsail in a float.
	And when the yard broke off, they said that I got killed.
	But I'm living still.
	I was a damned hill hill, across a river deep and wide.
	We're still in water till the last.
	A lake of water on the wild Colorado.
	I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below.
	They buried me in that great hill that knows no sound.
	But I am still around.
	I'll always be around, around, around, around I'll fly a star ship across the universe
	This is an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of
	Alright, my guest is Wayne Green, a fellow Ham, and I read his magazine when I was a youngster.
	So he's got to be pretty old.
	Long in the tooth.
	You're pretty old, huh, Wayne?
	Well, I've been around for a while.
	75 right now.
	You're 75?
	Yep.
	Yep.
	As I was coming up a young ham, beating my head against the wall, I used to read your magazine.
	Oh, good.
	All right, listen, Wayne.
	My editorials have not changed.
	It's true.
	They're still real wordy.
	Well, it's controversial.
	You're not getting away on this reincarnation thing, but I got this fax, and I just don't believe it.
	Let's bring this fellow on board.
	His name is Terry O'Grady.
	Is that right, Terry?
	Yes, sir, it is.
	You don't mind your name being used, do you?
	Not a bit.
	Hi, Terry.
	Hi, Wayne.
	Do you know each other?
	No, we haven't met.
	Okay.
	Terry, where are you?
	I'm in Oakdale, Minnesota.
	Oakdale, Minnesota.
	KFTP 1500.
	You know, that's a big powerhouse.
	Alright, lay it on us.
	You claim that you brought back 800 pounds of rocks from the Antarctic?
	Yes, we did.
	When was this?
	Under what conditions?
	What ship?
	Well, it was the Operation Deep Freeze 3 or 4.
	I'd have to check with the association if I know which one it was.
	I was aboard the USS Glacier, AGB-4, the icebreaker.
	Yes, sir.
	And we loaded five crates of rocks and about two or three hundred ice cores at the same time.
	And we brought them back to the States.
	Where they were going, I don't know.
	I didn't see the bill on them.
	We definitely loaded rocks from the Antarctic.
	That's what Wayne said, five crates.
	Didn't you say that, Wayne?
	I said about 800 pounds is what my informant told me.
	They picked up down there and it was addressed to NASA.
	My wife is from Christchurch, New Zealand, Barbara Coulter, and she can remember us talking about hauling rocks back to
	the states.
	And nobody, I mean, didn't somebody at the time wonder why you were doing that?
	No, there was a lot of scientific things going on down there.
	We had Van Allen on the ship and Von Braun was on it at one time, so it was just a big scientific expedition.
	As an aside, I don't know if Wayne knows this, but the Navy stood down from our Antarctic operations about a month ago.
	And they turned it over to the New York Air National Guard.
	No, I didn't know that.
	At the same time, they announced they were building a new base at the South Pole for $265 million.
	Hmm.
	So there's something going on down there.
	Yep.
	But we haul the rocks.
	No doubt about that.
	I used to be able to talk to the South Pole on Ham Radio.
	So did I. Terry, I appreciate you coming on the air and telling us this.
	Glad to chip in.
	Wayne, I believe the book.
	Thank you.
	All right, take care.
	I still don't know that I do, but that is an astounding thing.
	So they did bring back 800 pounds of rocks.
	No doubt about that, I guess.
	Holy mackerel.
	Wayne, could we really?
	I mean, if we didn't go to the moon, then everything we know is a damn lie.
	Could we really hide the UFOs and the ETs?
	Of course not.
	It'd be impossible, right?
	I don't want to, but I don't want to couple them.
	Maybe they are ultimately coupled.
	They're both cover-ups.
	What do you think about, as you know, we're very, very deeply involved right now in this whole Mars business.
	In your opinion, we can send a robotic craft, a satellite or a robot to Mars, yes?
	Right.
	You agree?
	Yes, oh yes.
	I don't think there's any big problem with that.
	That can withstand the solar flares and so forth.
	Do you believe that we are getting the truth from JPL and NASA with regard to the photographs that they've given us so far?
	Do you believe it after that fellow that you had on last night?
	You mean Kent?
	Right.
	I now have information about Kent that I can't talk about.
	Late information in the last hour or two.
	Look, I don't know what I believe.
	Right now I believe that Kent has a very strong story.
	I think it could be true.
	Well, it certainly fits in with all of the other information that you've had.
	I like things to add up like that.
	Yeah, but what it adds up to, along with what you're talking about, that we never went to the moon, is that we are profoundly being lied to.
	Profoundly.
	You're willing to accept that by that?
	Well, you know, I experienced this early on, as I mentioned before with Amelia Earhart.
	Sixty years later, they're still covering up.
	Yeah, I think it's... I've heard a lot more news lately about the fact that she was on some kind of spy mission.
	Right.
	Well, I knew that before she went.
	You did?
	Yes.
	I guess I'm just old-fashioned, you know?
	I don't want to believe That our own government, which after all is made up of us, greedy, self-centered, power-mongering, and all the rest of it, I admit it, when they get to Washington, that's the way they are.
	But they're made up, basically, of us, that they could so profoundly lie to us.
	Well, they're made up of us, but us also includes von Karadzic and a lot of other us's.
	It includes the Tootsies and the Hoot Toos.
	Yeah, I know.
	All right, well... That's us.
	That's us.
	All right.
	Well, you said something that really did kind of blow me away before the top of the hour.
	You said you believed in reincarnation.
	You have hypnotized people and taken them to prior lives.
	One of the things that I'm going to send you is my guide to books that you're absolutely crazy if you don't read.
	And there's a couple in there on reincarnation.
	and past lives and so forth and I think that you'll find and I review these books in there.
	These are not books that I sell.
	These are books that I've read and I say, gee.
	You just recommend them.
	If somebody doesn't read this, they really have a problem.
	I can embrace the concept of reincarnation without a problem.
	i've never seen direct evidence of a prior life I've heard an awful lot of evidence given.
	I've interviewed a lot of people that have regressed people into prior lives and then actually gone back and checked records and they've really come up with evidence that what this person said did in fact occur.
	How about Dolores Cannon and her books about Nostradamus?
	She makes an awfully good case for it there.
	By the way, I did call her and talk with her, and I've read her books, and they are fascinating.
	Nostradamus, of course, puts the Great Calamity at 2028.
	And I noticed, have you read Mass Dreams of the Future yet?
	I have, yes.
	Okay, that one says that it's going to happen in July this year.
	You know, this is a different Wayne Green.
	The Wayne Green that I have interviewed the last few times is a real hardware kind of guy.
	Mm-hmm.
	You know, computers, computers.
	And I'm publishing a journal on cold fusion.
	Yeah, very hardware-oriented.
	Now, the Wayne Green I'm hearing tonight is a really different kind of Wayne Green.
	This is an almost metaphysical Wayne Green.
	When did all this begin integrating into your personality?
	Oh, golly, early on.
	I have always been interested in anomalies.
	And I say, these are red flags saying, hey, there's something here you need to know about.
	And of course, the normal reaction for scientists is to sweep an anomaly under
	the... and say, yeah, that's an anomaly. And not have to think about it again.
	All right. You, early on, you published a magazine all about ham radio. And I remember reading it.
	And then you were at the forefront of computers.
	When computers came on the scene, man, you were there right away.
	I started a magazine within five weeks.
	Well, actually what you really did in the beginning, because I remember reading about it, you started writing And in fact, getting ads and writing about computers in a ham magazine, which outraged a lot of hams.
	Oh, sure.
	And they said, what the hell is Green doing?
	This is supposed to be a ham magazine.
	It looks more like a computer magazine.
	And then I started Byte Magazine.
	Byte Magazine, that's right.
	But I had the same reaction when I was promoting FM and repeaters.
	And I went around the country and held repeater conferences, got the repeaters all organized on the standard channels and over everybody's dead body.
	And I started a special magazine just on repeaters.
	Yep.
	And that became Cellular Phone Technology.
	That's right.
	But the ham reaction was, stop with all of the repeater articles.
	If you have another repeater article, I'm going to cancel my subscription.
	I remember that.
	Right.
	I remember that.
	And frankly, I've got to tell you, I felt that way at the time.
	I said, what the hell is he doing?
	And gradually, I began to get letters saying, hey, boy, you're right.
	Hey, these are fabulous.
	Yeah, well, I bet it was a while before those came in.
	Oh, sure.
	I'm used to that.
	Actually, somebody has written and asked, I think, the operative question now.
	Computers, of course, now, I don't know where the world would be without them.
	Maybe in 2000, we'll find out.
	Anyway, The fact of the matter is, somebody wants to know if computers are killing ham radio.
	Uh, no.
	Ham radio is killing, I should say, the ARL mainly is killing ham radio.
	Computers are not helping a lot because it is so easy to get on and talk to people anywhere in the world via the internet.
	Now, there is a good alternative.
	Now, there goes your picture down off the wall at the ARRL.
	Oh, my picture has always been behind a dart board.
	And I'm a 60 year member this year.
	I think, though, that there is some truth to the fact the Internet and computers are killing ham radio.
	Look, if you're 12 or 13 years old, Wayne, And you have a choice between studying for a test to get a very expensive radio that probably costs, frankly, more than a computer these days, to be able to talk to somebody perhaps on the other side of the world as the sunspot cycle increases, versus a computer where you can see the guy you're talking to on the other side of the world and hear him clearly at the same time.
	That's not much of a choice.
	That's not really a hard choice to make, Wayne.
	That's right.
	Well, fortunately, Amateur Radio provides a number of different hobbies.
	You know, we think of it as one hobby, but it's a whole collection.
	But there's no doubt about the fact that it's a dying hobby.
	And it's full of older people, not younger people, and when the older people die, the FCC is going to damn well auction off the frequencies for money.
	They're already saying that these are on the chopping block.
	Yeah, you bet they are.
	I agree.
	Well, you're just saying what I'm saying in my editorial.
	So what do we do?
	How do we save it?
	Or can it not be saved?
	What I propose is that we try to save our school system at the same time.
	And our school system, as you know, is one of the worst in the world.
	I do agree.
	They are connected.
	It's all a matter of education.
	What I would like to have, and the model of a school that is Fabulous!
	That is the best that I know of in the world is this Sudbury Valley School down in Framingham, Massachusetts.
	And I've got eight different books written about that school.
	Now, that school has no curriculum, no grades, no mandatory attendance, etc., etc.
	And their graduates can get into any college.
	Their graduates are outstanding.
	Now, what I want to do is have our schools have an eight-year course in the fundamentals of electricity, communications, and computers, and have this course taught by a magazine, even monthly or bimonthly, so that it will be up-to-date rather than in a textbook, which is two to five years out of date by the time it comes out.
	And in there, we will have columns about the various a high-tech clubs that uh... or groups that people can have
	like a column on amateur radio and what's going on
	we need youngsters in amateur radio to develop new technologies
	uh... good heavens i i help pioneer uh... narrow band fm back in nineteen forty six
	all right now let me stop you right there look here uh... when i was young
	i built my receiver i built my transmitter there were these kids
	available things were uh... things were uh...
	uh... of the sort that you could either build homebrew or you know if you bought something you could open it up and
	fix it And I've got to tell you, even with as much electronics as I have in my background, I've got a 1000 MPA system sitting here, and Wayne, if it broke, there's no way in hell that I would open that up and try to fix it.
	It's going back to Yaesu.
	Oh, I agree.
	And I'm in the same fix now with the handy talkies and so forth.
	Of course, we all are.
	We all are.
	So how do we take a youngster and bring them up so that they can not only understand but participate in current technology?
	Well, we do have some kits that are awfully good and a lot of fun.
	MFJ has some great ones.
	Ramsey has some great ones and so forth.
	But we can't go down to the corner store like we used to be able to.
	They don't even have parts anymore.
	Exactly.
	And there's a good reason for this.
	They don't use parts for making radio equipment anymore.
	They have modules.
	Yep.
	So there aren't any parts.
	Even in the military.
	When people go through military tech schools, I can tell you right now.
	They're module replacers, is what they are.
	Exactly.
	No, the electronic technician that we knew 50 years ago is gone.
	When I went through radio school in the Navy, or radio technician school, we learned how to fix anything.
	And we could walk up to any piece of equipment, no matter what it was, and fix it.
	Because we understood how everything worked.
	But that's not possible.
	No, they don't have to teach that anymore.
	Most of the equipment is self-servicing.
	It says replace module B. I know, I know.
	But that leads to a world where we don't have Really technically qualified people.
	That's right.
	Except some little cabal of individual experts who don't know the whole picture, even themselves.
	They just do one certain little part.
	Well, this is reflected in our factories.
	Now, I visited the American manufacturers of equipment, and we have Pentec down there, which is about the only one in America making equipment today.
	And there's one technician, and he's an old guy.
	And I go to the research, you know, the laboratory over in Yezu, and I see a huge room with 50 engineers.
	And they all come over and say, oh, W2NSD, oh, I'm JA so-and-so.
	They're all hands.
	And they're all Japanese.
	They're all Japanese.
	I know.
	And the same thing with the other Japanese manufacturers.
	They have... Kenwood, blah, blah, blah.
	I know.
	I know.
	So we're in a world where what we did as youngsters is no longer possible.
	Wayne, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	My guest is Wayne Green, and I am shortly going to open up the lines.
	And the range of questions that you can ask Wayne is indeed very wide.
	Uh, so we will continue this as long as it is interesting, and that it is.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Ghost AF.
	Alright.
	the alright
	uh... before we jump back where we were and i begin taking calls there are a
	couple of things one robert from maca while in maui hawaii
	and I'll see you next time.
	I can pronounce that because I lived there once.
	Sends the following that I want to respond to.
	Dear Art, you're the best thing going on radio and I love you.
	And thus I truly sympathize with you when I hear your long cherished beliefs begin to fall prey to the quickening.
	But just remember, beliefs are like belly buttons.
	Everybody has one.
	And no two are the same, more importantly.
	After we're born or reborn, we don't need them anymore.
	Bless you, brother.
	Aloha, Bob.
	Bob, it's more serious than that.
	I long cherish beliefs.
	Yeah, I thought we went to the moon.
	I still think we went to the moon.
	And if I were to find out we didn't go to the moon, It would be more profound than just the crumbling of a long-cherished belief.
	I'd cry.
	I mean, I talk to people who believe in conspiracies.
	I talk to people who believe that NASA's lying to us.
	I don't want to believe that.
	I don't want to believe that.
	And I don't know that I do.
	I listen.
	This is an open forum, and I am fascinated by these kinds of things, and I listen.
	But if I really believed that, you know, the people who lead us, or the cabal who supposedly secretly leads them, was doing this to us, I don't know that I can handle it.
	How about that?
	I'd just cry.
	I mean, everything I know and cherish and have believed all my life is a lie?
	That one just doesn't go down so easily.
	I don't want to believe that about my own country.
	I don't want to believe these things.
	I really don't.
	So, you know, it's more serious than just a belief crumbling.
	It's everything I know and hold to be true suddenly being wrong and a lie.
	And I just, I don't know that I would digest that very well at all.
	Wayne, you're back on the air again, and here's a question for you.
	Art, would you please ask Wayne what his take on sentient computers would be?
	Is the internet going to birth something soon?
	From Don in Buffalo, New York.
	And I, too, wonder about that.
	I mean, we get faster and faster and faster, Wayne.
	More memory.
	When is it going to happen?
	Let me give you an answer, and I think you'll like this one.
	Go.
	But I have a question for you first.
	Sure.
	How can I get some of my books to you?
	You need to read some, but they're not long books.
	You need to read some.
	For instance, my guide to books... No, but Wayne, you know books are like belly buttons.
	I know, but my guide to books, if you're crazy, if you haven't read, you at least ought to look through and see the reviews of the books.
	Colonel Corso's book is in there.
	Now, you're asking about Night Vision.
	I've read Colonel Corso's book.
	Corso says that we got that from BET.
	I know.
	Okay.
	And I have another book that I just put out.
	It's a collection of my 1998 editorials and it runs 92 pages.
	And I'll be glad to send you a copy and you'll see just what I've been writing for the last
	four months.
	And I'm almost ready to put out the second issue for the next four months.
	I'm that far ahead.
	All I'm saying is that if I were to read, say, two or three books that documented why
	we didn't go to the moon, I would still be left with a terrible quandary because there
	are lots of good arguments about, you know, I can sit here and read you some facts as
	Look, here's one.
	We never send people to the moon?
	Ridiculous!
	Of course we did.
	The stars will be washed out by the exceptional brightness due to the lack of a significant atmosphere of the foreground object's basic photography.
	Air is required to make dust?
	Garbage.
	Dust is simply small particles of rock.
	The gap between the particles of dust on Earth is filled with air and filled with nothing on the moon.
	The gaps are there because the dust does not fit together like a jigsaw puzzle piece.
	If the moon started out as solid rock, which it did not, hits by meteorites would make the rock into dust and larger pieces.
	The proof that the dust was being kicked up was in a near vacuum is because the dust fell to the ground at nearly the same speed as the astronaut did.
	If there were air around when they filmed them, the dust would have taken more time to settle.
	The jumping on a trampoline?
	And that was one monstrous trampoline.
	I recall watching one of the astronauts skipping across Lunarscape using very little muscle.
	Observed the lack of balance of the arms.
	So, another words Wayne, I could go on.
	Yep.
	But there's arguments, solid ones, on this side.
	Well, of course, I'm looking at a book that says That Fred Whipple of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts contended that dust particles would become tightly packed together without gases to filter in between and separate them.
	David Bowen did an experiment to verify this at the North American Aviation Company, and he released a steel ball into a container of fine dust-like particles, which promptly sank.
	When the ball was dropped under the same conditions in a near vacuum, the ball stopped at the surface and bounced.
	All right.
	The resulting crust consisted of dust particles so compacted that a semi-solid was created capable of supporting the ball.
	Wernher von Braun agreed in his 1970 one book Space Frontier.
	Well, alright.
	And so forth.
	So we can try the experts out, right and left.
	Yeah, exactly.
	What I say is, I've read a number of books on this here, and they have managed to convince me of this, and so forth and so on.
	You know, it's so profound.
	If what you're saying is true, then everything we know to be whole, we thought to be true, The beliefs, the really solid, profound, deep beliefs about our country, they're all wrong.
	They're all wrong.
	Well, why is it that the E.T.
	cover-up hasn't struck you the same way?
	The same way?
	Well, at times it does.
	At times it does.
	But, again, I have no absolute proof.
	I really don't.
	I've seen something myself twice.
	Then I can't explain.
	But that's something short of, hey, I was abducted, I was on a ship, hey, I saw some guys from somewhere else, something like that.
	Believe me, if that happens, I'll have a different attitude.
	You've talked to a number of people who have been abducted, right?
	Countless.
	And, you know, I've talked to Michael Wolf here several times.
	And, boy, does he have a... In the latest issue of Nexus, they have an interview with him.
	And, of course, he's been high up in the government.
	And he's been abducted all his life.
	Well, I know.
	I've interviewed Travis Walton, I've interviewed countless people who claim abduction, but that's still not my experience.
	And I'm not calling them liars, because quite obviously they believe, I mean people have had lie detector tests, they certainly believe what they're saying.
	Now wait, do you believe that the Earth goes around the Sun?
	Yes.
	Have you seen any proof of this in your own eyes?
	Um... First person proof.
	No, I can't say that I have.
	Okay.
	Are you telling me it doesn't?
	No.
	But I'm saying that we have to accept other people's research on things.
	On some things.
	We can't personally see and feel everything ourselves.
	Well, there is conventional scientific belief, and then there's conspiracy theories.
	Well, of course, as soon as you get into consciousness, you get into an area where conventional science research has a very difficult time and stigmatizes anybody that tries to get into that area.
	Now, as for me... He refuses to research it.
	I don't refuse to research anything, and I'm open-minded to everything, but I don't leap first at the conspiracy answer.
	I leap first at what seems to be... what mainstream science seems to say.
	Now, I know I deal all the time with people who believe other things, but if I were to actually begin to get truly, personally convinced That we've been lied to right down the line from the Apollo days, even maybe before into the Mercury days, through today and the Mars pictures and all the rest of it.
	Part of life for me, Wayne, would crumble.
	Well, maybe we better not try to get that information to you.
	I don't believe that anybody can read Rene's book, NASA Moon America, without being convinced.
	I have been in touch with over 500 people that have read the book.
	I've never heard from any of them that they weren't convinced.
	You want to hear something cool?
	You wrote about computers early on.
	I have a serious love-hate relationship with computers.
	So this is going to warm the heart of just about everybody out there.
	Uh, it seems that, uh, right in the middle of a computer expo demonstrating Windows 98 to the public, Bill Gates' computer crashed.
	It seems one of his cohorts tried to plug a scanner into his unit.
	Poetic justice, says Tom from Michigan, and boy do I agree, Tom.
	I only wish I could have been there to watch Bill Gates' face as his sucker went down.
	Of course, I've known Bill right from the very first days that he got involved with all of this.
	Well, this brings us back to the sentient computer question.
	Go ahead and answer that now.
	Okay, I'm a sentient computer.
	One of the things that we know about life is that somehow our cells, and the cells of all living things, seem to have some kind of sentience.
	And when they take cells from a person and separate them and put them in a Petri dish and grow them and put a meter on them.
	Yes.
	And put a meter on the person.
	Right.
	Those two meters will go in tandem.
	That I believe is accurate.
	Or how far they're separated.
	That's accurate, I believe, yes.
	Right.
	Well, the Secret Life of Your Cells by Stone really documents that.
	And I ran across that by talking to Brian O'Leary and to Cleve Baxter.
	And Christopher Bird.
	At any rate, we know from the Secret Life of Plants book by Bird and Tompkins that plants are aware of what we're thinking.
	I know.
	See, that sounds like you're crazy as a loon, but there is scientific evidence to back up what you're saying.
	Oh, Lord, yes.
	They have hooked up machines to plants, and they have this incredible experiment That I was told about here recently, where a scientist came in and was adjacent to a plant and he took a head of lettuce and took a knife and whacked the thing in half.
	Well, the monitoring units went absolutely berserk.
	The plant reacted to that.
	Now, as a control, the scientist then left.
	And there were other scientists that came in.
	The plant was reacting calmly and normally as they were there.
	And here comes the guy who would slice the lettuce in half.
	Right.
	This time he comes in the room without a knife, but the plant suddenly, when this guy comes in, goes nuts again.
	Now the implications of that are incredible.
	All right, it gets worse.
	Or better, I don't know which.
	I have a video on the secret life of plants, and one of the things that they show is a Japanese couple It is teaching a plant to speak.
	Say what?
	Yes.
	Teaching it to repeat sounds.
	And what they did is hook a meter to the plant and had it drive an oscillator.
	And then they would make a sound and the plant would imitate it.
	Oh, come on, Wade.
	I got it on video.
	Come on, Wade.
	It was broadcast over television.
	Really?
	Yep.
	I have a very hard time with that one.
	You heard a plant talk.
	Wait a minute.
	Come on, Wayne.
	You heard a plant talk?
	That's what's on video.
	It's there.
	You actually heard it?
	Yep.
	Repeating sounds.
	Repeating the sound of words.
	Of course, it was in Japanese.
	Well, I know.
	So what is... we get a little Ohio Gazamus from the plant or something?
	I mean, what did it say?
	Well, it started out just making a regular sound and then the woman kept repeating the word and the plant adapted to repeating that word.
	That's very hard to believe.
	You interviewed the woman who had a transplant And who had the feelings of the fellow... Well, we have similar reports from people who have blood transfusions.
	Both the transfusee and the transfuser seem to be able to be in communication in some way.
	Well, getting back to sentience.
	Yes.
	Somehow, cells have sentience.
	They have something that computers don't have.
	And I don't think that computers are going to have it no matter how much memory and so forth that we give it.
	Well, I guess it depends on how we define sentience.
	Awareness.
	Consciousness.
	Self-awareness of self, right?
	So it's not just a matter of the proper number of neural connections and the speed of the processor and the amount of storage and A sort of a totality of this all?
	Well, of course.
	And with the brain, we have not located any place in the brain where memories are stored.
	What we've located is switchboard that connects into things.
	Memories seem to be stored in some other medium, and since we carry these memories with us after death, whatever after death is, when you get rid of the concept of time, This is something that computers don't have and can't do.
	Alright.
	Make sense?
	Um, maybe.
	But I'm not convinced.
	There will not eventually be a sentience.
	Because I don't know what consciousness Um, really is.
	We can say things like self-awareness, but we don't know what adds up to self-awareness, do we?
	No, of course we don't.
	We don't really know.
	We don't know what consciousness is.
	We have just barely begun to investigate it, and regular, you know, I should say, regular scientists do everything they can to prevent that, and not fund it.
	And ridicule people that do do that.
	So it's been a very difficult thing, but as you learn more and more about what is known about consciousness, it is amazing.
	And of course I've had experiences myself of telepathy and clairvoyance, and enough to convince me so that no skeptic can ever turn my belief in that.
	When I had a problem with my first wife who wanted to commit suicide, My mother called up and said, what's wrong?
	I know something's terribly wrong.
	Oh, I hear a million stories like that, Wayne.
	Exactly.
	All right, we're at the top of the hour.
	When we come back, I want to give the audience a chance with you, okay?
	Sure.
	Wayne Green is my guest.
	You're up with him next.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	stay right where you are.
	I'm going to be right back.
	You know I need your love.
	You got that hold over me.
	Long as I got your love, you know that I'll never leave.
	When I wanted you to share my life, I had no choice.
	Who you gonna call if things get out of hand?
	Who's gonna be?
	AFL!
	The signal that travels all across the land!
	Hey!
	AFL!
	You've got the gift, you can see it on the stars!
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	AFL!
	And who are the greats gonna take to Mars?
	Hey AFL!
	This is an on-pro presentation of AFL!
	Hey, I'm out. Hey, I'm out. Hey, I'm out.
	Yeah, I fell!
	I fell!
	Hey, I fell!
	Yeah, I fell!
	I couldn't resist, I was so excited.
	Wayne?
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I've got two things for you on the Asian way of writing.
	and once again
	when greenway alright
	i've got two things for you on the uh...
	asian way of uh...
	writing uh... when you come into the soul
	the uh...
	model for korea is the land of the morning calm and there's a huge time as you come into full of food the
	land of the morning plan uh... well
	I'm sure you've read a lot of the same manuals I have.
	In Osaka, they had a pizza restaurant with a big sign out front that said, All the Piz and Flies You Can Eat.
	When the Japanese and the Koreans tried to write in English and the Chinese as well, it comes out transformed.
	Transformed.
	At any rate, Wayne, I want to expose you to the audience.
	Who knows what kind of questions we're going to get.
	It could range Can I get an address in there so I can find out about all these books that I've been reading?
	You have a list of books that you're absolutely crazy if you don't read, right?
	Well, I have a guide, or I should say a list of the books that I've written.
	One of them about how to make money, a beginner's guide.
	Yeah, how many times have you been a millionaire, by the way?
	Oh, Lordy, I don't know how many times.
	You know, in America, when a person gets to be a millionaire, they're supposed to stay that way.
	You know, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but you get rich and poor and rich and poor and rich and poor.
	Why?
	Well, on account of I don't really have any interest in money, and I just let other people take care of it, and they do.
	And I'm interested in doing things and making things happen, and I do that very successfully.
	And the money, I just don't really care a lot, one way or the other.
	You know, if you're going to manage money, that's a business in itself.
	Well, I mean, you do write about how to make money.
	Oh, sure.
	And hundreds and hundreds of people have taken my advice, and they write back and say, wow, it works.
	It works.
	Of course it works.
	I know.
	I've had the same reaction.
	Because as far as I know, I have never seen anybody else write this anywhere, and I've never heard anybody tell about it.
	You know, there's a secret to this.
	And it's a very simple one once you understand it.
	And it works, and it'll work every time.
	And you can make all the money you want.
	Alright, so you've got that, you've got your list of books, and if people want all of this, how do they get it, what do they do, what does it cost?
	The list of my stuff costs a self-addressed stamped envelope.
	That's it?
	That's it.
	The guide to books that you're crazy if you haven't read is a 36-page guide.
	That's five bucks.
	And that helps me buy more books.
	I can spend that money right away.
	All right.
	What is the magical address?
	The address is Wayne Green, Hancock, New Hampshire.
	Where?
	Hancock.
	Like in John.
	You know, that seems like you've moved.
	Well, I just changed to a different post office.
	Oh, I see.
	So spell it.
	H-A-N-C-O-C-K.
	Okay.
	Hancock, New Hampshire?
	0-3-4-4-9.
	I hope you've got a big box.
	Oh, sure.
	And a very friendly post office.
	So, anyway, let's hit it again.
	It's Wayne Green, Hancock, New Hampshire.
	0-3-4-4-9.
	No, I didn't mean that, even though we'll hit that again.
	I meant there's two things.
	One is, Send a self-addressed stamped envelope.
	Right.
	No more.
	And you will return what?
	And I will send them a list of Wayne Green's stuff.
	And please don't make it a little tiny envelope.
	No, no, no.
	The list of my stuff runs about 22 pages.
	Oh, my God.
	Legal size, then.
	Right.
	All right.
	And for nothing more than that, you'll send that?
	That's right.
	22 pages.
	And then if they want the list of books you're crazy if you don't read, that's $5.
	That's $5.
	And I have a guide to health here which goes into all of the books that I've read on that subject and I think will help anybody get over almost any illness.
	Isn't there like a Peel Box or something?
	Well, you can put a P.O.
	box, but you don't need it.
	So they'll know.
	Wayne Green, Hancock, New Hampshire, 03449.
	With Peterborough, I was getting mailed to Wayne, 03458.
	You know, just the zip code and Wayne, or the science man.
	It didn't make any difference.
	Green.
	You know, I've actually received mail, Radio Guy, in Nevada.
	Right.
	Now, how can mail possibly, possibly, Radio Guy, Nevada?
	Right.
	Not a town, not a zip code, Radio Guy, Nevada.
	Right.
	Crazy.
	All right, these people are waiting to talk to you, Wayne.
	Okay, good deal.
	All right, first time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in DeSaris, Ohio.
	Okay.
	Listening 610 WTVF.
	Oh, yes, indeed.
	Yeah, I used to be an engineer out there at WXEL.
	I'm not familiar with that.
	Well, that's Channel 9 in Cleveland.
	Okay, sounds good.
	Do you have a question, sir?
	Yes, I was listening off and on this morning, and you touched on reincarnation and so on and so forth.
	My first question is, sir, what is your religion?
	I don't have a name for it.
	I certainly have a religion.
	I have beliefs that I have developed after doing a lot of reading and with an open mind.
	I'm a pragmatist.
	I'm not a Republican or a Democrat.
	I'm not any of the commercial religions, but I'm a pragmatist.
	So I guess that's my religion.
	Does the Bible mean anything to you?
	The Bible is a very good source of information about ancient history.
	Unfortunately, if you've read much about the Bible, you know that it has been revised and changed substantially, particularly in the early days.
	And it is, you know, the original Bible was, do you know what language that was in?
	Greek and Hebrew.
	Right.
	And mostly Greek.
	A lot of it was Sumerian text, wasn't it?
	Well, if you read David Horne's book, you'll get a lot of information on the early days of these religions and why we have religions.
	What is the point of your question, sir?
	The point of my question is, reincarnation is in severe contrast to what I get from reading my Bible.
	Well, that's because it's not in there.
	But actually, it used to be.
	Wayne, it really is right about that.
	It used to be in there, and it was by man voted out.
	Did you know that?
	No, I was not aware of that.
	Good for you, Art.
	Well, I know that.
	Even I knew that.
	Alright, I appreciate the call, sir.
	No, it is true.
	It was once in there, and I don't reject... It was about 65 A.D.
	that they voted it out.
	Yep, something like that.
	Alright, Wild Cloud Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Hello, good morning, Art.
	Good morning, sir.
	Good morning, Wayne.
	This is Mike in Philadelphia.
	Wayne, it's an honor for me to speak to you through a hand radio pioneer.
	Well, thank you.
	Alright, I have one question for you, and I'll hang up.
	Has there ever been any bit ever... It's hard for me to answer this question.
	Just slow up and ask.
	Alright.
	Has there ever been any two-way contact with extraterrestrials?
	Any documentations?
	I'll hang up for the answer.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Not by me.
	I don't know of any by radio.
	I don't think they use radio, but we have some fairly good documentation on contacts with ETs by mind and by tape, if you've read about the Roti tapes system.
	And there are a number of places around the world where they are doing this, and having some amazing results.
	Again, I was talking to a theoretical physicist the other night, and I've talked to people from SETI, and you know, even they agree.
	I mean, that in the larger picture of any developing civilization, the amount of time that that civilization would use radio and television I've been editorializing on this.
	would be uh... in larger scheme of things the blink of an eye
	exactly and so uh... contact by those means would be rather
	unlikely making any uh... reception by said he rather unlikely frankly i've
	been editorial i think on this i'm sure that they're great dismay
	Well, I had a fellow on who said he was a wonderful, great guy.
	Oh, sure.
	And he even really admitted an awful lot of this.
	For example, Michio Kaku said, look, it's insane to imagine we're going to get any sort of analog signal.
	Why wouldn't they send it by some sort of spread spectrum if they were going to send it?
	Why wouldn't they send it by mind?
	By mind would be a notch further down the line.
	You're absolutely right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Good morning, where are you?
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Jay from Oklahoma City.
	Yes, sir.
	Great to talk to you again.
	I just had a quick comment, question, kind of deal for your guest.
	Sure.
	Wayne, how are you doing, Wayne?
	I'm doing great up here in New Hampshire.
	Oh, I'll just kind of side with Art about this deal as far as if we've gone to the moon tonight on what I've heard tonight so far.
	And my question was, is if NASA was really going to pull off such a great conspiracy over About going to the moon, would they really overlook such minute details?
	And do you think they would be so sloppy about it?
	I think they were.
	Remember, this was almost 30 years ago.
	Yeah.
	It'd really be a shocker if it was a conspiracy, though.
	Anytime you ascribe a great amount of intelligence to the government, I think you may be on the wrong foot.
	Okay, well that's all I had for you.
	All right, appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Bye-bye.
	Here's somebody who writes, Wayne, ham radio's not dying.
	The spirit is not dying.
	It's the old farts that are dying, becoming salad keys.
	As Wayne knows, you've got to get new, mostly younger members into clubs and make them into new 73 subscribers.
	How about a better integration of electric fun magazine articles into 73 magazines?
	More simple projects that can be done without a complete machine shop and laboratory?
	Even some of us older hams would like some simple projects to build.
	You already have parts suppliers advertising in 73.
	And we have more simple construction projects than any of the other magazines.
	That, as a matter of fact, is why I started 73 in the first place.
	Because I felt there was a real need for simple home construction projects, and we're publishing a lot of them
	Heck and we're going a far field to not just ham radio projects
	We've had two articles on the bioelectrifier so far, and we've got a couple more coming up, right
	Well, I still say and I'm sorry to say it because I have in my heart more love for ham radio than
	I wouldn't want to say anything, but it's been one of the major high points of my entire life Wayne, but I see it
	dying Well, of course, one of the things that I've had so much fun and excitement with on Amateur Radio is pioneering new things and going on expeditions to weird places.
	You know, going to a desert island down in the Caribbean.
	Oh, I know.
	It's a blast.
	I mean, all of that is a blast.
	I've been there twice.
	But, Wayne, that's you.
	That's me.
	I love it the same way you do.
	Sure.
	But the kids, they go, I'd like to go to the island, but who needs Amradio?
	Well, it's kind of fun to talk to the people that you know all around the world from anywhere you are.
	And it's the same people that I talk to.
	Yeah, but how do we infect?
	Whether I'm in Afghanistan or wherever.
	Sure, Wayne, but how do we infect the young people with what you and I know to be true?
	The excitement, the incredible excitement of ham radio.
	How do we infect young people with that?
	If we don't do it, it is going to die.
	With advertising.
	The same as you sell anything else, Art.
	And the ARL is not advertising, not promoting, not doing anything about getting articles about amateur radio into any of the popular magazines, not doing a thing.
	I do agree that the ARRL has been obstructionist, and that's a strong word, obstructionist in changing and modernizing, I'm not saying throwing away, just modernizing The whole concept of Ham Radio and the rules and regs that go with it, and the licensing procedures that would bring young people into Ham Radio, they have been obstructionist.
	And I felt the same way, and that's one editorial that you've written that I've always agreed with, and I could go back to incentive licensing and start screaming on the radio right now, but I won't.
	Look, you're Ham.
	You have an enormous audience.
	Now, how come the ARL hasn't been in touch with you and feeding you things about Amateur Radio to put on the air?
	Why not?
	Probably because I've heard some of what they've heard and some of what I've said about them.
	I'm sure that's why.
	I mean, how often do they write you fan letters?
	Because they don't send that information to anybody.
	Really?
	That's right.
	Now, when I first got involved in Amateur Radio, One of the first things I did was work all states.
	And I got the certificate.
	Yeah, me too.
	And there in the newspaper, in the Brooklyn Eagle, Wayne Green worked all states.
	And the ARL sent in the information to the newspaper and they published it.
	And they used to do that back in the 1930s.
	They haven't done that in years.
	In decades.
	It's pretty sad, isn't it?
	Right.
	And they're not pushing their clubs.
	If I could figure out any way to turn this around and put my head together with you, I would gladly give it lots of good PR, but I don't quite have it figured out yet.
	it.
	And getting information from these clubs about what they've done is like pulling hen's teeth.
	It's true.
	And if I could figure out any way to turn this around and put my head together with
	you I would gladly give it lots of good PR.
	But I don't quite have it figured out yet.
	I really don't.
	Well the ARL is getting the information and they're sitting on it.
	For instance, you know, down in Alabama, they had the tornadoes, and the Ham stepped in and provided all of the communications down there.
	I know.
	But look, 73 has never depended for one second on its existence, on the ARRL for its existence.
	In fact, you have existed despite them.
	That's right.
	And still, we are not in a growth mode, as far as Ham Radio is concerned.
	I'm a thorn in their side, that's for sure.
	I know, but how do we, despite them, because they're a bunch of old guys who just don't want to see any change.
	Some of them, I'm sure, are fine hams, but they're locked into the way it was, and they're going to go down with the ship.
	So it's got to be up to people like you, or me, because of the forum that I have.
	But I haven't figured out how to do it, Wayne.
	Well, we have amateurs in good places in different media.
	Are you familiar with Dave Bell?
	I know the name.
	Okay, W6AQ.
	Sure.
	I just got a letter from him.
	He is a producer of television videos.
	Now, the ARL should be all over him with ideas for things and offer to help.
	Remember the movie Contact here recently?
	You bet.
	We got some pretty good PR at the beginning of that movie, I thought.
	Sure.
	All right, Wayne, hold on.
	It's the bottom of the hour, and I promise we're going to concentrate harder on the phones now.
	A lot of people want to talk to Wayne Green, and you're going to have your chance.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert, where finally it's beginning to warm up.
	This is Coast to Coast AF.
	Thanks for watching.
	Please subscribe.
	You're in the middle of nowhere.
	I don't know what you're saying.
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	including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, call Art at 1-800-618-8255
	or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nile.
	All right, um, Ken in San Diego writes, uh, hi Art, if your world would crumble by hearing that we did not indeed go to the moon, could it be possible the Brookings Institute report on the UFO issue is indeed correct?
	Look, man, I don't know if my world would crumble, but what it would mean is That everything that we have thought to be true, everything that we have thought we understood about our country, democracy, the Constitution, would be trash.
	And I don't know that my world would crumble, but there would be a lot within me that would crumble, to be honest with you.
	And they could not lie about something like that.
	Without lying consecutively about everything they've told us that would follow from that point.
	And I remember, I watched on TV as we allegedly walked on the moon.
	Right?
	So would my world crumble?
	Well, yeah, I guess part of it might, you know?
	anyway when greenback in a moment alright back now to wane green and i want to give you when
	greens address Yeah, here it is.
	Wayne Green, Hancock, New Hampshire.
	That's H-A-N-C-O-C-K, Hancock, New Hampshire.
	Zip code 03449.
	Send the guy a number 10, you know, legal size envelope with a stamp on it, and he'll send you back Wayne Green stuff.
	Or larger.
	Or larger.
	Even a manila envelope might be nice, huh?
	All right.
	My booklets are all six by nine.
	And if you want a list of all the books you're crazy if you don't read, plus more, that's five bucks.
	Right.
	You mentioned the Constitution.
	I did, didn't I?
	That's already been trashed.
	Well, you know that.
	The Constitution says nothing whatever about that.
	Well, the 16th Amendment, people will tell you, was not ratified.
	Right.
	Other people will tell you, well, yes, it was approved, actually.
	And we have federal judges ignoring the Constitution constantly.
	But I have a number of proposals for improving our country.
	As a matter of fact, I just finished doing two dozen proposals for improving New Hampshire, and these would apply to almost any state.
	We had a local competition here on what can you propose to improve New Hampshire.
	Really?
	What did they come up with?
	Well, I came up with a way to have no taxes, whatever.
	We have no income tax and no sales tax in New Hampshire, just a property tax.
	Well, we don't have income tax here, right?
	Right.
	And, of course, I'm opposed to a property tax because... Then you don't really own your property.
	Well, fundamentally, what that means is you don't own your property.
	You just rent it from the government.
	In a sense.
	So, but anyway, I came up with a way for the state to make enough money as a business to make it so that there are no taxes, whatever.
	And I propose a way to do this.
	If anybody's interested, one of the things on my list will be my guide to 24 ways to improve your state.
	All right, but here's something that I want to fire back at you, Wayne.
	I've traveled the world.
	Right.
	I've seen a lot of other systems, a lot of other governments, and been in a lot of other places, and for the most part, Wayne, compared to what we've got, they suck.
	Now, look, we've got basic... we have freedom of movement.
	I can get on an airplane and go redo the Riot Act right there in person in New Hampshire without having to show a travel card or a pass.
	I have basic privacy, although that's certainly been eroded.
	I have rights if I'm to be arrested.
	I have a right to a jury of my peers.
	I mean, there are still a lot of things... Oh, we have a lot of good things going.
	Yes, sir.
	We have a lot of problems.
	So I wouldn't go so far as to say the Constitution is trashed.
	The implication of that is There's nothing left of it, and there's a lot left of it.
	Okay, I can send you a list of the things that we have done to the Constitution, if you like.
	I'm sure.
	At any rate, we have not been guided by it, unfortunately, in so many ways, and it's unfortunate.
	What I do is I say, look, you take foreign aid.
	We're not pure.
	I say, here is a way that we can increase foreign aid, Substantially.
	And make a huge profit out of doing it.
	Every dollar that we send out in foreign aid should come back with ten or a hundred or a thousand dollars in return.
	And I propose a way to do that.
	I propose a way for any government bureau... Well, that's how Japan does it.
	...to cut itself in half in about three years and do it cooperatively and enthusiastically.
	Well, I'm sure there are many good ideas and they're worth reading, but the overarching point I was trying to make is that it's not all gone, Wayne.
	This is still a wonderful place to live, and if you doubt that, travel.
	I have traveled, and I have not found any place that I would prefer.
	But I can't help wanting to improve the situation that we have here.
	I agree.
	I can't disagree with that.
	What's the Rockies?
	You're on there with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	This is Russ from Bakersfield.
	Hi, Russ.
	I'm now, apparently, as of today, listening to you on 940 AM.
	Yeah, I'm already out of breath now.
	Okay, but if you listen tomorrow, you can hear us on 1560 KNZR.
	I didn't know that.
	Well, now you do.
	All right.
	I knew it.
	About the moon.
	Actually, the most conclusive Data on the fact that we didn't go to the moon can be found in NASA's own data.
	And it gets complicated real quick.
	And the Reader's Digest version of it is, and maybe Wayne can help me on this, is that there's two obstacles to overcome.
	First, you have to escape.
	There's a point where you have to escape the Earth's gravitational pull and And then be influenced by the moon's gravitational pull.
	And then to come back to Earth, you have to escape the moon's gravitational pull,
	and then become captured by the Earth's gravitational pull.
	Yes.
	Okay, now, the Saturn V rocket could not carry a payload large enough
	that could propel a craft that could sustain life of three people
	out of the moon's gravitational pull.
	It could get you there, but it couldn't get you back.
	And NASA's own data shows it.
	And I don't have it here in front of me.
	I apologize for that.
	It's buried away in some boxes, but I can get it to you.
	Bill Keising covers this nicely in his book, We Never Went to the Moon, and he's backed up by William Bryan in Moongate, who gives the data on the distances that you have to blast.
	What Bill Keising points out is that the rockets that he used could not possibly loft the weight that was required to go to the moon and back.
	So you agree?
	Oh yeah.
	Well, I guess that's all I need to say.
	Well, I didn't say I agreed.
	Wayne, then what did people see who stood at Cape Canaveral then?
	And watched the Saturn V's lift off.
	What did they see?
	They saw it going into low Earth orbit and without the astronauts in it.
	Without the astronauts.
	Right.
	Now, how about this one, Wayne?
	If that was true, the Russians would have screamed bloody murder.
	Rene covered that pretty well in his book.
	By magic, at that time, we increased our gift of food to Russia by about ten times.
	So we bribed them, is what you're saying?
	Right.
	Oh, God.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	It'd be just serendipity.
	Yes.
	Hello there.
	Where are you?
	I'm John from Toledo, Ohio.
	Yes, sir.
	Mr. Green.
	Yes, sir.
	That's an old Irish name.
	You recommended a lot of books tonight, sir, and they all sound very interesting.
	Can I recommend a book to you?
	Absolutely.
	Always interesting.
	As a matter of fact, most of the new books that I get are recommended by readers and listeners.
	Well, this book, you have to satisfy two requirements for this book.
	You have to be under 16 years of age, or you have to be over 65.
	Okay.
	I qualify at 75.
	I don't.
	I don't.
	So I can't read it, but what is it?
	Well, I would recommend this to you, Art, too, and also to Mr. Rich.
	I'm not old enough.
	Well, you might.
	The subtitle of this book, something I added, is The Secret to the Mystery of the Ages.
	The name of the book is The Human Comedy.
	It was written by William Soroyan back in the early 1940s.
	and uh... when i say you have to be under sixteen or over sixty five
	you have to be a fair either young age or full age to really understand the message of this book
	and uh... i don't want us to know i don't want to appear mysterious or anything
	well alright uh... but it It's a book that's very well worth reading.
	It's called The Human Comedy by William Soroyan.
	All right.
	We'll get it.
	And what is the basic contention of the book?
	Can you give us a nutshell, at least a teaser, something that would make us want to read it?
	Well, yes.
	Now, I'm going to quote scripture.
	Now, I know that may not be acceptable on this program.
	I don't know.
	No, I'd really rather you didn't, though you can paraphrase it.
	Well, Jesus said something like, some folks have their eyes on the stars, but they fail to see the signs of the times.
	Yes, sir.
	And this book is about what I believe life is all about.
	And like I say, I don't want to sound mysterious or anything, but it's a very good book.
	It's very worthwhile.
	And after you read the book, you might want to rent the movie.
	Hollywood made a motion picture version of the movie with Mickey Rooney.
	Oh, of course.
	All right, well, thank you very much.
	I appreciate it.
	We'll let the mystery stand, I guess, and people can go out and get booked.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hi.
	Hi, Wayne Green.
	How are you doing?
	I haven't talked to you in so many years.
	I remember when there was CQ73s on the radio.
	Do you remember that?
	Oh, you bet.
	So do I. And I can't give him a call, so I won't, but it's been a long time.
	The late 40s.
	Anyway, you ought to be able to at least give Art a few reasons why he ought to not leave a time machine and just sit there.
	He ought to either use it or give it to me, maybe.
	But anyway, the question I have, I have one of Wayne's stuff, pamphlets here, and I was wondering now, you seem to be quite a bit into this cold fusion.
	Do you have something or a book, some literature, That we could make a workable model of something that would be useful.
	Oh, yes.
	As a matter of fact, that's exactly right.
	It is an experiment, and we'll have Wayne describe that.
	Wayne, we don't have enough time to do real justice to the whole cold fusion business.
	I know you believe very strongly in it.
	I know that you can describe an experiment that people can do at home.
	We've done this before, and I would like to do it again.
	A number of people have done this successfully, but what I highly recommend is that they get a sample copy of my journal, which has the patents in there, printed in their entirety, showing the construction of the cells and so forth.
	All right, but basically, here's the facts that I've got.
	Wayne says you can use two nickels, one glass of H2O water, baking soda, a two to nine volt battery, and this, the faxer says, DJ in L.A.
	listening to KBC, this will eventually heat up to thousands of degrees.
	True or false?
	False.
	It will heat up more than the, in other words, you'll get more heat out of it than the current that's going in.
	But with nickels, they are so large and It takes, oh, probably two or three weeks before you will get the effect.
	What they find is that if they use powdered nickel, or thin sheets of nickel, that they get the effect much faster.
	Alright, so you use two thin sheets of nickel.
	Right.
	And you get a glass of water.
	Glass of water.
	You put how much baking soda?
	Put some kind of electrolyte in it.
	A baking soda, probably.
	A salt, even?
	Yeah, a salt.
	Lithium salt is very popular on that, because what happens is that you have a transmutation of elements.
	This is why they're able to take radioactive material and take the radioactivity out of it in very short order.
	And, of course, that's one of the things that is going to be very helpful to you down there.
	Yes, I know that was demonstrated on ABC's Good Morning America, but let's finish up here.
	You just take two Two pieces of nickel.
	Right.
	You solder, I guess, some... Do you solder or you clip wires on or what?
	You just clip wires on to it and make sure the clips aren't in the electrolyte.
	Okay.
	You clip the wires on and you attach a battery, a plus and negative, one to each side, right?
	Right.
	And then... And then what you do is you have a thermometer in there.
	Right.
	And a thermometer outside so that you can tell the difference in temperature that you're getting.
	Yes.
	And you figure out how much heat is being delivered there compared to the amount of electricity that's going into it.
	And you'll find that you're getting more heat out than the electricity that's going in.
	Alright.
	That's a workable, you can do it at home experiment.
	Is there any danger in that, by the way?
	Not if you make sure that the liquid doesn't run out.
	Okay, what would happen if the liquid... Well, then it can take off, and they've had cases where it's exploded.
	Uh-huh.
	So watch your liquid level, folks.
	Right.
	Keep the electrolyte in there.
	And what voltage do you recommend, like a 9-volt battery, something like that?
	Yeah, that's a good voltage.
	It doesn't make a lot of difference what voltage you use, it's just, you know, it puts so much So many watts of power into it, and you get so many watts of heat out.
	And how long will this go on producing heat, typically?
	Typically, 10,000 years.
	My God.
	You mean to say... 10 to the 5th.
	But, alright, here's the thing, Mike.
	Yeah?
	I've heard so many people, Brian O'Leary, so many others, talking about exactly what you're talking about right now.
	And my response is always the same.
	It's, give me a toy, give me any practical, anything that we can demonstrate over unity.
	Where is it?
	Why don't we have it?
	What the hell's the matter?
	It's been years and years and years and years since Pons and Flashman took off to England.
	It's been years.
	Where is our toy?
	Right.
	This is the same thing that I'm hammering home in my journal.
	In my editorials I say, look, the big problem that you have there, Art, is that you have scientists, you have inventors, but we don't have any marketing people in the field.
	And so we're embedding the heck out of things and coming up with patent after patent of things that are working, and we don't have a marketing agent in there saying, okay, here's how we put that on the market.
	All right, but here's a challenge for you right now.
	The Japanese are damn good at doing what we don't do.
	Marketing, they're good at that.
	The Japanese took their best shot at cold fusion and came up empty, went belly bust on a project.
	There were mitigating factors there.
	Like what?
	Other investors.
	You know, other people that had money and other things had to say on what was going on.
	And this is going to destroy the power industries, coal, oil, and the whole works.
	So you're essentially saying they were bought off or shut up.
	Right.
	And we've seen this a number of times.
	There's a fellow that's invented a way to improve plant growth by about five to seven times.
	And CETO looked into it and said, gee, this is great.
	But then they had some of their customers We're selling pesticides.
	And they say, well, gee, once you do this, you don't need pesticides anymore.
	So they dropped the whole thing.
	See, that's the kind of thing that's liable to bring me to tears.
	Again, everything... Money talks.
	It talks in Congress.
	It talks in science.
	It talks in research.
	The researchers in the coal fusion field, Almost, without exception, are not funded by any of the normal fundings.
	Not by the government, certainly.
	The government has set down a rule saying, look, if anybody in your place is going to do any cold fusion research, you get no more money from us.
	For anything.
	And this has stopped all the universities.
	Alright.
	I have to go to the top of the hour here, Wayne.
	You good to go for an hour here?
	Oh, sure.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Wayne Green is my guest, and he will be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Her hair is hollow gold.
	Her lips sweet pride.
	Her hands are never cold.
	She's got better days besides.
	She's had her music on.
	You won't have to think twice.
	She's got a New York now, she got better days...
	You're listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Artvol.
	Wayne, you're back on the air again.
	Okay.
	Have you ever seen a white LED array?
	No, but you know the LEDs came to us by way of the ETs, according to Corso.
	That's what I've heard.
	Right.
	You mentioned love of music.
	Now, I have a little story.
	Well, I'm wondering what in our brain, Wayne, Does that.
	In other words, 10 or 20 years ago, I fell in love with that Rafferty tune.
	Right.
	And today, I play it again and I fall in love all over again.
	Right.
	And it's like I can play it and play it and play it until my ears bleed.
	I know.
	I know.
	When I saw the picture of this thing, I heard Scott Joplin music.
	Yeah.
	And I said, wow!
	Where have I been?
	How did I miss that?
	And I bought every LP I could find with Scott Joplin music, and I played them endlessly.
	Yes.
	And the more I played them, the more I said, these guys aren't getting it.
	They don't get it.
	Doggone it!
	And one day, I was down in New Orleans and coming back from a riverboat jazz concert at about midnight, and I walked by this little bar.
	Sherry and I walked by this little dingy bar, and There was a piano music coming out and it was Scott Joplin and I listened for a minute and I said, wow, we've got to go in.
	And we went in and there was a youngster there called Scott Kirby and he was playing Scott Joplin the way I heard it in my mind.
	So I immediately brought him to New Hampshire and I built a recording studio, the latest state-of-the-art recording studio.
	And recorded the entire Scott Joplin and put it out on four CDs in a set.
	And that has changed ragtime.
	When I first started there was one ragtime festival in the country down in Missouri, in Sedalia.
	And now there are dozens of them and they're over in Europe and Scott Kirby is the star on all of these.
	And he has changed the way ragtime music is played, because all of the big performers now are playing it the way Scott Kirby was playing it.
	But that was... I just fell in love immediately when I heard that music.
	That is what you do.
	You fall in love.
	Now, what is it, do you suppose, in our brains that causes that to occur?
	I'm probably asking an impossible question, but you're Wayne Green, so what the hell?
	Well, we don't know, but we know... You know, it's like...
	We know it when we see it.
	We know it when we hear it.
	We know what's good.
	You know, when I hear Gottschalk music, that's great.
	When I hear Nazarene music, that's great.
	And Beethoven symphonies and so forth, well, most of them, are great.
	And you hear it and you feel it.
	But like books, 99.9% of the classical music that's written isn't worth listening to once, much less twice.
	And 99% of the books aren't worth reading.
	But there are that little fraction in there that are just wonderful.
	What I try to do is find those things.
	When I was publishing the leading music magazine in the country, that's what I was doing, helping people.
	I was sharing my love of music with about 400,000 people.
	It's really intriguing, and I guess I would need to talk to somebody.
	Who understands the workings of our brain to really understand what it is.
	Good luck.
	These are the things I want to understand.
	Alright, first... It could tie in with past lives.
	You don't know.
	That's absolutely right.
	Or future lives.
	Yep.
	First time on our line.
	First time on our line, Wayne.
	Hello there.
	Yes, hello there.
	Are you there?
	Hello, Mr. Green.
	Yes.
	Yeah, you're doing a great show tonight.
	Very interesting show.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from Chicago.
	Okay.
	Chicago area.
	Yes, sir.
	In fact, I had a strange thing happen about the beginning of the show.
	The WLS went out for like 20 seconds, 30 seconds.
	Ooh.
	Completely.
	Just like, completely just shut down.
	I thought my radio had actually turned off.
	I wonder what I said.
	Radio stations don't like dead air.
	Especially WLS.
	It's a pretty major station.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's serious.
	We didn't expect them to shut off like that.
	It wasn't me, folks.
	Okay, just wanted to see if you knew anything about it.
	My real question is, you've done a great job of using logic to sort of kind of persuade people to think twice about the whole NASA landing on the moon.
	I like the way you think with logic.
	I sort of have two questions, and you kind of hit on it earlier when you were talking about the inspiration of musicians when they write songs and when they're creative.
	Yes.
	And it seemed like you were inferring, Mr. Green, that the inspiration is not divine, not through God, but through themselves.
	Well then, you have to define what God is.
	And I'm not sure that God isn't all of us put together, and I think Jesus said something like that, too.
	Okay, I just wanted to clarify your actual opinion on that.
	If we add all of the souls together, for the lack of a better word, our English language is not handy on this.
	One of the questions I wanted to ask, using logic, is you mentioned earlier that the Bible was translated through Greek?
	And logically, why would the Greeks, if you're going to use logic, why would the Greeks want to promote that book using their language if they don't believe in one God?
	Like the Bible says, like the first commandment says, you know, thou shalt not honor any other god.
	And the Greeks had many gods.
	If you use logic, why would they promote that?
	Some Greeks did.
	It doesn't make any logical sense why the Greeks would want to promote that, though.
	Well, I don't think there was a democracy to the effect that it would change what a group of Greeks thought.
	You're saying you don't think the power structures of the Greeks... I don't think all of the Greeks agreed on what was there any more than all Americans agree on anything.
	Isn't that kind of illogical, though?
	If they don't believe in one God, why would they want to promote that?
	Well, you get down to who they is.
	The Greeks.
	The Greeks are just as diverse as Americans.
	You're saying it could have been just one segment of Greeks?
	Sure.
	You talked about Paul McCartney in the beginning of the show and about the tragic death of his wife?
	Yes.
	One of the things I really always felt about Paul McCartney was he wrote very subconsciously.
	Even John Lennon used to mention that.
	Boy, do I agree.
	Let it be.
	He would say to his partner, John Lennon, that he did not even know what he was writing about.
	Yep.
	And then Lennon would say, no, I know exactly what you're writing about.
	Or like, hey Jude.
	Things like that.
	He would be writing very godly type songs.
	Right, yep.
	It seems very divinely inspired.
	I think Paul McCartney was very divinely inspired.
	Well, didn't Jesus say we were all divine?
	I think we have the potential to be divine.
	But right now, why is music right now so negative?
	Why is what?
	Why is it so negative?
	I agree with that comment.
	It may be because we're getting older and we just view it as negative trash because my dad viewed what I listened to as negative trash, that which I now declare my love for.
	So, but it does, it really does, if you listen to the crap they're... I know.
	The kids are listening to it, and that includes my 16-year-old.
	Yep.
	It is horrible.
	Yeah, like Merwin Madsen, people are very destructive.
	These things don't last.
	The things that we thought were bad 50 years ago have not lasted.
	The things that we thought were bad 30 years ago have not lasted.
	I don't see any band that's going to touch people the way the Beatles did or some major force of good.
	No, I agree.
	Today it's the Spice Girls, you know?
	I saw a Spice Girls concert the other night.
	It seems to me like you're very in tune with the song.
	A lot of times certain songs you play seem very appropriate for the show.
	Like, Bette Davis' eyes before just really hit me when you played that.
	Well, yeah, that's because I'm doing the picking, I'm doing the choosing, I'm doing the arranging for the moment, and I do what I feel like doing, and so that's why it comes out that way.
	If I had an engineer or a board op or something, it wouldn't be that way at all.
	Yeah, I guess being a songwriter and musician myself, I can say one thing.
	When I write songs, I know that it's inspired through God.
	It's not through me.
	Alright, well, look, I appreciate your comment.
	I don't know that I fully agree, because I don't fully understand the nature of God myself.
	It may be a collective thing, as you suggest, Wayne.
	I've heard many, many interesting theories.
	I am convinced that there is a Creator.
	That there is a Creator.
	I hesitate to use the word God, because, you know, actually, Christians are the minority in the world, not the majority, even though you'd never know that Here in America, when you travel, you know it very quickly.
	And yet, every major country and every major group of any color you can name all believe in something.
	One of the books in my guide to books is Evolution from Space by Sir Fred Hoyle and Rick Ramessing.
	Yes, sir.
	And he covers this pretty well.
	Worth reading.
	There is another book that, if I could find it, somebody swiped my copy, if I could find it, it would go in my guide called Religion for Scientists.
	And it's a very interesting concept.
	He points out that each cell in our body has an awareness, an awareness of what's going on around it.
	But it does not have, as far as we know, any awareness of the whole person.
	So we put all those cells together and we have an awareness of the whole person.
	And he says, well now, why doesn't that go to the next level and have an awareness of all of the people on Earth having an awareness?
	The Gaia hypothesis, perhaps, of love-lock.
	And then we may have it so that we have an awareness of each galaxy, of all of the... and so forth.
	So it's an interesting concept as you get into these things, which...
	As Lovelock says, we don't have any way to... They're ineffable, as he put it.
	We're not things that we can investigate.
	You know what?
	It's been too long now, and I can't remember who said this to me.
	Somebody will write me and tell me, but there was somebody who said that in the beginning... You know, people talk about the Big Bang and all the rest of it.
	In the beginning, there was but one entity.
	No space.
	No matter.
	Nothing.
	Just one entity.
	God, if you wish.
	And this entity was lonely.
	And this entity blew himself up.
	And that all we now are is what he was.
	Or what this entity was.
	I shouldn't say he.
	It could be a black woman.
	Who knows?
	But whatever.
	All that is now are things, people, animals, All that we are is this entity.
	It is a different way of saying that we are all, or God is within us all.
	There's a problem with that, Art.
	What?
	And it's right at the beginning.
	You said, in the beginning.
	Now, again, you're looking at it from the viewpoint of time being what we perceive it.
	I only said that so people might have a reference, because otherwise what could I say?
	Well, maybe there isn't any beginning.
	Once we find out that time is just something that we perceive.
	Well, Wayne, you know when time began?
	Somebody else said this to me.
	I talked to so many physicists.
	When there were two objects, when there was only one object, there was no reference to anything.
	Right.
	When there became two objects or more, there then became a reference that we can call time.
	Right.
	Because we can measure the distance between or the speed at which these objects are leaving or headed toward each other or whatever.
	Yep.
	But we can't really conceive of this whole concept of time not existing.
	No, we can't.
	And yet, we have scientific proof.
	Okay, well I might have said before time existed.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green and Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Hello Wayne.
	As a kid I read your magazine.
	I never bought it as a kid.
	I always went to the library and they would have a huge stack of them and I would go through a couple of years worth.
	I'd like to comment on the whole Internet versus ham radio issue.
	Oh, good.
	I'll tell you what, Collar, we're at the bottom of the hour, but I really do want to hear this.
	Can you hold on?
	Yes, thank you.
	All right, stand by.
	I'll hold you right there, and Wayne will be right back.
	And this is yet another song I fell in love with, as well as a gal who sings it, who I fortunately got to meet.
	Absolutely incredible.
	This is Crystal Gale.
	It's been a too long time Good morning from the high desert.
	I'm ready for the times to get better Good morning from the high desert. This is Coast to Coast
	AR.
	I've got to tell you I've been racking my brain Hoping to find a way out
	I've had enough of this continual rain But the changes are coming
	I'm ready for the times to get better There's a long way to go
	You never see what's coming You never see what you're gonna see.
	You're ever playing to the gallery.
	You take the long way.
	You take the long way.
	When you're up on your day before the meeting.
	I take the long way.
	I take the long way.
	From the kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
	First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
	callers may reach out at area code 702-727-1222 and you may fax art at area
	code 702-727-8499. Please limit your faxes is to one or two pages
	is close to a close to him with our now again
	here's our you know it is ironic
	and maybe a little embarrassing uh... the quote that i had i can remember who was quoting
	what about uh...
	the entity or that was
	which was before time blowing itself off as the facts that said uh... are you know you just quoted
	courtney brown from one of his remote viewing sessions with Ed Dames as a
	guide.
	It was in his book.
	Great book.
	Too bad about him.
	I think he was politically assassinated.
	Chris in Beaverton, Oregon.
	Well, Chris, um, it's still just as good a quote.
	And, um, what I would say regarding the political assassination part is, no, uh, Chris, it was political suicide, actually.
	Political suicide.
	Anyway, whoever said it, and it was Courtney, it was good.
	And then, one more little item here.
	Art, I'll send you a free energy toy.
	You can consider this a contract.
	If you do not have a free energy device in hand in one month, I'll send you a $100 bill and its price.
	To be perfectly explicit, this device will sit on your desk and perform work without any mechanical, electrical, or chemical connections.
	It will have no batteries, no gears, or levers.
	It will need no winding up, or shocking, or effort on your part to work.
	It will have observable, continuous movement to give evidence of energy being expended.
	The shelf life will be 100 years plus.
	Okay.
	you.
	All right, back now to Wayne Green in New Hampshire, the live free or die state.
	How come you're not dead yet?
	Just obstinate.
	By the way, on that gadget that the fellow promised, how about a clock that's run by atmospheric pressure?
	They have those.
	Atmospheric pressure?
	Right, that changes in atmospheric pressure.
	Your pressure is changing all the time.
	That's true.
	And they have clocks that are run by the energy from that.
	Well, I bet that clock would poop out here in the summertime in the desert.
	We've got a high sitting over us just about all the time.
	Except in El Nino years.
	Right.
	And that sucker'd go dead.
	It could, yeah.
	Oh, by the way, Art, I want to send you... Have you ever heard Scott Joplin's Solas?
	I want to send you a copy of that.
	Well, go right ahead.
	I'll listen.
	Because I think you're going to fall in love when you hear it.
	Now, in my experience, Scott Joplin was the greatest American musical genius ever.
	And I've listened to everything.
	I don't think I've missed anybody.
	And the way that you hear Solas is played by Scott Joplin.
	Well, I love piano.
	Right.
	I'm a serious fan of piano.
	This piece is going to make you cry.
	Have you ever heard... Have you ever heard something called Little Ballerina Blue?
	I don't think so.
	No?
	It is by a fellow named George Fishoff, and it's really a remarkable piece of music.
	This is it.
	Now you've probably heard me play that before, haven't you?
	I think so.
	Just a remarkable piece of piano music, and it's unavailable.
	Can't get it.
	I had to finally contact George Fischhoff and beg him, and he sent me a 45.
	And I had to send it up to the network to get it dubbed, because I don't have anything that'll play a 45 here.
	Be careful, Art.
	I remember what happened to me when I heard music I loved.
	It started me recording, and pretty soon I had my own labels.
	Well, I'm afraid I'm involved in a path so deeply now that I'm... But you never know.
	You never know.
	I got involved with R&B.
	Ragtime and bluegrass.
	I thought... You know something, Wayne?
	I thought I hated bluegrass.
	I really did.
	I hated it.
	I thought it was thick, horrible music.
	And then one time during my radio career in the early years, I went to work because I was hungry for a country and western station in Santa Barbara, California.
	And I was determined to hate that music.
	And I mean really hate it.
	And I had to go on the air and sound like I liked it.
	And for two or three weeks, I hated it.
	But pretty soon, pretty soon, all of a sudden there was one or two tunes that I was starting to really like, and then three or four, and then five or six, and I thought, oh my god, I'm turning into a country hick!
	And I fell in love with country music.
	That's how it happened.
	It was just exposure, repetitive exposure, and pretty soon I started finding tunes I loved.
	So, it can happen.
	It can happen that way.
	Things you think you hate, uh, when you finally taste them, you find out, gee, I've acquired a taste.
	All right, I'm going to send you a cassette, uh, since that, uh, you, you like those, uh, of Cucarooza.
	And this is a Russian bluegrass group that I recorded here in my studio.
	And you are going to just be astounded.
	A Russian?
	The Russian Bluegrass Group.
	Okay.
	I'll look forward to that.
	It's incredible.
	They came over here and recorded and they went on to Grand Ole Opry and, well, they're just an amazing group.
	Indeed.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello Art and hello Wayne.
	Hi.
	Hi, I'm Debbie and I'm calling from the state of Washington.
	First, before I get to Wayne, I have a real quick comment and a real quick suggestion for Art.
	The comment is we came up through Mexico a couple of weeks ago, through Nogales and through Needles, California on our way back to the state of Washington and the Mojave Desert is green.
	For people who don't believe me, it is the most bizarre.
	I've been telling them.
	It's like a carpet of grass.
	I've been telling people.
	It's astounding.
	You've never seen anything like it.
	It's green all over here.
	Well, even though I tried to pull you in on our Songene radio, I could not get you for the last six months, so I'm making up for it now.
	I see.
	Anyway, on your time machine, why don't you take that thing away along with your Beijing radio and your food and stuff, and then if things get really bad, You've got to use it if you want to.
	I'm going back to 57.
	I wouldn't even think about it until you absolutely had to, along with using your food.
	By the way, the next time you go to Mexico, listen to AM1200, WOAI, they come in just fine down there.
	Out of San Antonio.
	I tried.
	I really did.
	I don't know what was wrong with our reception.
	We were way down on the Pacific Coast.
	Way south.
	I know.
	I went down to Mazatlan, and they were as strong as any station in Mazatlan.
	Well, last year we could, but this year for some reason we just couldn't.
	Conditions.
	My question for Mr. Green was, Mr. Green, were you the person who sent Art the fax that you have a voodoo doll with pins stuck in it?
	Was that you?
	Yep.
	Well in that fax you suggested that his back wouldn't be so bad if he slept facing north or lying north to south.
	That's right.
	And what I know from that is I used to be married to a person who suffered or experienced not only sleep paralysis but also what he termed astral projection or OBE that scared him to death.
	And he was sleeping, we were sleeping east to west in the path of the moon as the moon When we switch north to south with our heads at the north, he never again experienced that.
	May I interject something here?
	Of course you may.
	I sleep north-south.
	You always have.
	No, I didn't say that.
	I have slept for years.
	My bed is now nearly perfectly aligned north-south.
	So you can pull that pin out of the doll.
	Try south to north.
	I had terrible back trouble.
	As a matter of fact, it got so bad that I couldn't get out of bed for a couple of days.
	But my bed was east-west.
	I've never had another problem since I changed it to north-south.
	Never again.
	Well, I will not sleep east-west.
	Just a coincidence, no doubt.
	Well, I just will not.
	I will sleep north-to-south or south-to-north.
	In fact, I find it more comfortable with my head south for some reason.
	Well, I'll try it.
	But I do know that there is something really Weird about sleeping in the path of the moon.
	And I'm not a person that usually gets into that kind of stuff.
	My head faces south.
	It does.
	My feet to the north.
	Well, switch it around.
	You gotta find your own compass point.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	It was good hearing from you.
	And you pull that pin out of your... What happens is, you see folks, when I don't have Wayne on for a long enough period of time, his faxes get more vicious.
	Isn't that right, Wayne?
	You bet.
	On Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Wayne Green.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Berkeley, California.
	Berkeley.
	Yes.
	Boy, I think the whole issue of what is going to happen to ham radio versus the internet.
	Oh, yes.
	I'll tell you, I come from a funny perspective.
	You know, I had a ham license as a kid.
	Now I'm older.
	I have a job with the internet.
	I see the internet all the time.
	I got everything.
	Internet, everything.
	I got ISPN, like multiple machines, you know, every browser and thing in the world.
	And right now, I find ham radio incredibly interesting.
	You know, it's... Look, I have no argument with you.
	I just... I'm desperately trying to figure out how to save ham radio.
	It needs to be saved.
	How do we, if I could figure out a way to do it, I'd take this forum and I would use it to do that, but I haven't figured it out.
	Do you have any ideas?
	Well, I'll tell you, I think the key thing about ham radio, to me, the key difference between ham radio and the internet is that ham radio is physical.
	You know, the internet, it's sort of like, I don't think you can make a hobby out of clicking buttons to look at a picture of a country.
	I think making an antenna and I think it's the difference between, you know, you could click on a button and look at a picture of Egypt or you can fly to Egypt and set up a ham radio station.
	You know, that it's the difference between...
	I mean everything now with the internet is so mental.
	You know, there's nothing...
	In the old days, I feel like in the 60s, you know, people went...
	I know, but you're not going to...
	But sir, sir, you are not going to easily sell this to people into instant gratification.
	And we've got a society into instant gratification.
	Want to talk Egypt?
	Boom.
	Click the mouse button.
	Yes, but I would say that the point is that there are... there's going to be a core of people who are, you know, are going to be geniuses of the next generation, and they're going to be They're out doing wonderful things, and they are the people who seek out challenge.
	It's the difference between driving a race car and riding in a 747.
	You pay your ticket and you go faster than you go in a race car, but it's not the same thing.
	It's a good analogy, but the trick is, and this is what Wayne How do we impart this in an entertaining, exciting, I've got to get into it kind of way?
	I think the space is part of it.
	I don't even think people just appreciate what you can do.
	I think the space is part of it.
	I think that has to be a component.
	I don't even think people just appreciate what you can do.
	If you tell people the exciting times that you've had and share the excitement and the
	fun and the adventure that you have with amateur radio, that will communicate itself to people.
	And that's what I do, is I say, you know, I've had an incredible life because of the adventure that amateur radio has provided me.
	It's never changed for me, Wayne.
	It's still as exciting as it ever was when I, you know, even back in the beginning when I was, when it was CW Morse Code, folks.
	Um, and I was very new at it.
	I was 12 and 13 and a signal was coming to me from the other side of the country and then very soon the other side of the world.
	That magic has never gone away.
	In fact, doing this talk show, I know I'm on the air in a new place or in Canada, you know, and calls are coming from Nova Scotia and calls are coming from the Virgin Islands and from Hawaii and from Tahiti and from Japan.
	It's A thrill all over again each time.
	That never changes, and that's Ham Radio.
	But I don't know how to... I don't know how to... Just talk about it.
	Just talk about it.
	Right now, the way we've talked has gotten hundreds, maybe thousands of people interested in finding out more about this.
	And, you know, when you explain to them, look, it's easy to get a license.
	We had kids four years old with a license.
	Now, you know... Wait, if it hadn't been for Ham Radio, I wouldn't be doing this.
	Well, me either.
	No, this is what has guided my whole life.
	Ham Radio got me, I would say, about 80% of the jobs that I ever got.
	Ham Radio.
	Well, of course, I started out publishing ham magazines.
	Well, it didn't start out that way, but I got into it.
	And that got me into publishing the computer magazines, that got me into publishing music magazines, and so forth.
	But each of these things were technical things that evolved from amateur radio for me.
	But our educational system is not turning out people who have inculcated to them the kind of drive that it takes to go after all these things.
	Well, we have an educational system, and I can go on for hours about that, that was developed on purpose by our religious leaders about 150 years ago to provide just that kind of a A result.
	They took the Prussian military schools and replicated them over here.
	And then when the Industrial Revolution came along, they said, boy, this is great.
	We're able to take people, all kinds of people, and turn them out to be exactly the same.
	This is just what we need to run in our factories.
	But again, we're still doing it.
	To believe this, it requires a belief in a gigantic, horrible conspiracy.
	Well, that's what there was.
	See, there we are again.
	Right.
	No, they did this on purpose.
	All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Wayne Green, but not a lot of time.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi Art, hi Wayne.
	John from New York.
	Last time I spoke to you, Wayne, I called you from my repeater in New York City.
	Oh, for goodness sake.
	Since then I've moved upstate New York.
	You moved out of the city a long time ago.
	Yep, 38 years ago.
	Yeah, Wayne, one thing I want to call about the moon thing, really.
	Uh, we need a magazine.
	I'm in the repair business.
	You know, VCRs, TVs, and computer monitors, etc.
	There is no magazine out there telling us anything about what's going on.
	The only one that's out there is, well, you know who that's published by, I think.
	And it's nothing.
	I mean, they're telling you what a resistor is.
	It's unreal.
	There may be some people with entrepreneurial spirit that are listening.
	I hope so.
	I mean, all we need really is the manufacturer's literature, you know, from all the different manufacturers.
	But getting to the moon thing, I'm going to have to go over it again.
	I've got a videotape I made way back on an Ampex one-inch machine as it happened, unedited.
	But what's bothered me is that we just now found out there's ice on the moon.
	That's true.
	Now, wait a minute.
	We had three more flights we had scheduled.
	Never went.
	And they more or less told us, well, we know everything about the moon.
	It's no bother.
	Why should we go back?
	That's a true statement.
	And here we are, going into space with, well, right now there's another zoo up there.
	We're raising fruit flies, looking how flames burn in space.
	And there's the moon.
	We definitely know now we have not thoroughly examined it.
	Even back, the other thing that bothers me, either we are in space every day, which I kind of think, is that the X-planes back in the fifties, they were wearing space suits and they had to put thrusters on them because there was no air up there.
	Caller, we're running out of time.
	Okay, we were so close to space at that time, you know?
	I think the best evidence there may be that we never went to the moon is that we haven't been back in thirty-something years, right?
	I think so.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	That's giving you a little Olive Branch there, Wayne.
	It seems impossible.
	John, thanks a lot for the idea on the magazine.
	If we have any entrepreneurs, that's a good hint for them.
	I have a number of magazines that people should be publishing, and I've written about them in my editorials, and say, look, come on, fellas, get on the stick.
	These magazines are needed badly, and they'll make all kinds of money.
	Well, there you are.
	Look, Wayne has a list he will send you.
	of uh... books that you're out of your mind crazy if you don't read that's five bucks he's got a list of wayne green stuff that he'll send you for free if you send at least the number ten legal size envelopes that with a stamp on it and it'll send you for free and uh... you would send it to wayne green hancock h a n c o c k hancock new hampshire zip code zero three Four, four, nine.
	Is that right, Wayne?
	You got it.
	If they really have to have a box number, it's box 60.
	Box 60, but it really doesn't matter because... This is a small town of 400.
	There's 400 people in Hancock, Manhattan.
	Well, my friend... I'm living here on a 200-acre farm.
	Oh, you poor fellow, you.
	We have wild turkeys going out here every day, deer all over the place.
	And so forth.
	Rough life.
	Right.
	200-acre farm.
	All right, well, as always, my friend, it has been a great pleasure.
	And we will do it again.
	We will do it.
	Don't send me nasty faxes.
	We'll do it again, all right?
	I'll pull some of the pins out.
	All right, good.
	Good night, Wayne.
	Okay, good night, Art.
	That's it, folks.
	That's Wayne Green, the editor and chief cook at 73 Magazine.
	And he has done so much.
	If you want to do something interesting, study the life of Wayne Green.
	Some love him.
	Some hate him.
	But he's quite something.

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