April 22, 1998 - Art Bell
01:26:26
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To talk with ourselves in the kingdom of my from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033, 1-800-8255033, west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255. | |
| Don't love me now, you'll never love me again. | ||
| I can't do it, hear you say it, we'll never break together. | ||
| And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again. | ||
| I can't do it, hear you say it, we'll never break together. | ||
| Good morning from the high desert. | ||
| I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. You may recall, at the end of last week, we had a call from a man who represented himself as Kent. | ||
| Actually, he gave us a last name at that time, which we didn't hear, Kent. | ||
| Kent wove a tale, a story, a very shocking story, of his employment at JPL, NASA. | ||
| He claimed that he saw, by accident, some very clear and sharp photographs of the Sidonia region of Mars. | ||
| Photographs that we could only dream about having. | ||
| Very, very clear photographs showing unambiguous artifacts, buildings, that sort of thing. | ||
| The story then continued that he was called by his supervisor and later that day, in the early afternoon, fired Canned. | ||
| And so then we went to work on a tent. | ||
| First, Linda Moulton Howe spoke with him for about two hours on the phone. | ||
| Then Richard Hoagland began a communication with him. | ||
| Both at that time, both Linda, who said at that time she thought it was solid as a rock, and Richard Hoagland said 98%, we believe the story. | ||
| So we then endeavored to get documentation from Kent regarding his employment at JPL, trying to verify various aspects of his story. | ||
| What you are about to hear is the result of an investigation into his story and into Kent. | ||
| This involves the use of reverse speech. | ||
| And I am sure the people at NASA will be gratified to hear that what was done to them after they appeared on this program is now going to be done to one of their detractors, namely Kent. | ||
| So in a moment, Richard C. Hoagland and David John Oates and the investigation into Kent. | ||
| The Bajan Free Play Radio. | ||
| What could be more appropriate for Mother's Day? | ||
| That number again, 1-800-458-7134. | ||
| Alaska, Hawaii, and Canada. | ||
| Call area code 918-687-0404. | ||
| Or on the internet, it's www.americangoldrose.com. | ||
| All right, now the alleged case of Kent. | ||
| We'll call it the case of Kent. | ||
| As I said, Kent was first interviewed by me on the air. | ||
| All of you heard that. | ||
| I presume you heard it. | ||
| Then there was a follow-up conversation with Linda Moulton Howe that lasted about two hours. | ||
| And then a sort of ongoing sporadic communication with Richard Hoagland in New Mexico. | ||
| And we kind of went silent on the air about the whole Kent thing until we figured out what was going on. | ||
| And tonight you're going to hear what's going on. | ||
| Richard, welcome to the show. | ||
| Good evening, Art. | ||
| Hi there. | ||
| Well, it is an interesting set of developments. | ||
| So where do you want me to begin? | ||
| Well, I think perhaps you should tell us what you know in the first person. | ||
| In other words, following the interview that I did on the air, the audience would not be aware of the communication and the concerns and what Kent said when he would call you and that sort of thing. | ||
| So let's fill them in on what they don't know. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, obviously, when you sent me the facts from Kent and did the interview, I was very interested for obvious reasons. | ||
| If this, in fact, was taking place, if we had a bona fide leak, someone who had seen something that was genuine and who was concerned for his safety after the events that transpired during the interview, anyone would be concerned at both the human level and also the professional level. | ||
| So the evening of the interview, I placed a call to the motel where he was staying. | ||
| Actually, it goes back even further than that. | ||
| I sent you the facts. | ||
| You read the facts and said you really ought to go ahead and do this interview. | ||
| I was asking you what you thought of the facts yourself. | ||
| Yeah, it appeared to be pretty genuine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It had subtleties to it that made it appear to be genuine. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| It turns out that that was part of a larger effort here, but we'll get into that. | ||
| So after you went ahead and put him on the air and did the interview, I called him at the motel where he was, which was Ohio at that time. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And we probably talked for about 30 minutes. | ||
| Linda had interviewed him or talked to him in the previous two hours. | ||
| It took me a long time to get through because he was on the phone with her. | ||
| And the poor gal to death, who in the world was calling from all over the country to this poor guy in this motel room. | ||
| She had never heard of the Arpel Show, by the way, I must say. | ||
| That's all right. | ||
| But no. | ||
| Anyway, during that conversation, a couple things developed. | ||
| One is he appeared to be genuinely concerned for his safety. | ||
| He appeared to be adamant about going to ground, meaning getting lost, going into hiding. | ||
| And I urged exactly the opposite. | ||
| I urged him to go to Washington, to talk to people at the major media that we know. | ||
| Washington Post, the Nightline, whatever. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And I had obvious connections, like to set that up with one phone call. | ||
| He agreed in our conversation to stay in touch. | ||
| He seemed very surprised that I called him. | ||
| In fact, he didn't seem to know who I was at the initial conversation, which I felt was a plus. | ||
| He did say he had been to a library after this incident when he got to Ohio and that he had looked up The Face on Mars, which was a book written some years ago by anthropologist Randolph Opozos, which was a description of our first investigation of SRI. | ||
| And he then connected my name with, you know, obviously the investigation in that document. | ||
| But other than that recognition and the idea that I would call him in the middle of the night in a hotel room, it seemed perfectly copacetic. | ||
| It seemed perfectly the way someone who was concerned for things that they had gotten in way over their head about would be responding. | ||
| We left it that he would call me, and he hung up. | ||
| 24 hours later, roughly midnight the next night, this was what, Friday night you did the interview? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Saturday night about midnight, the phone rang, and it's Kent. | ||
| And he's much calmer. | ||
| He said he'd had time to think about things, that he was trying to arrange to get documents to me from his Wells Fargo friend who had put him in touch with you. | ||
| And that he had left in such a hurry he hadn't taken anything with him, and that he was going to try to have his friend go in and basically get the required materials so we could document his employment. | ||
| What we wanted was pay stubs and any ID that he might have, that kind of thing. | ||
| He was not at this point giving me or apparently you his correct name. | ||
| And this kind of bothered me even then, which is why I was holding out that 2%, because if you want to go public, it's like being a little bit pregnant. | ||
| You either go public or you don't go public, but you can't kind of halfway go public. | ||
| Oh, yeah, and it does not much good for somebody to give a pseudonym and go public with that. | ||
| That protects nothing. | ||
| Because then there's no way to verify that their claim is what they say it is. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So this was bothering me. | ||
| He did, by the way, I guess the audience would be lost here. | ||
| He has now, you should know, admitted that that was not his real name, correct? | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Continue. | ||
| Now, he gave us Kent Smith, which turned out not to be accurate. | ||
| We had a number of people in parallel between these phone calls. | ||
| I had a number of people. | ||
| I had a friend of mine in Hawaii who has some experience in forensic investigation and a colleague called from MSNBC who I think contacted you first. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Who launched their own investigation. | ||
| The people at MSNBC were very, very helpful. | ||
| And I won't use his name because he may want to write this under his own name. | ||
| The point is we had a number of different people investigating from a number of different directions, calling JPL, calling people in the personnel department, calling subcontractors, looking through the website. | ||
| The bottom line was we could turn up nothing on a Kent Smith. | ||
| More interesting, my friend in Hawaii turned up by going through the mailing departments and the supervisors in charge of couriers and all that, that there was no documentation sent either to the UN, to Langley, or to NASA headquarters on the 14th, certainly not photographs and certainly not by FedEx. | ||
| So that part of his story, apart from his identity, did not apparently check out. | ||
| And because my friend's pretty good and was able to reach several different levels and talk to people who were just there doing their jobs, it seemed increasingly unlikely that there had been some kind of curtain or screen dropped around this whole thing. | ||
| And it became more likely that there were major problems with Kent's story. | ||
| In the meantime, I think it was Monday night that he called and he was in a really desperate panic. | ||
| In fact, he was in such a panic that I know you talked to him and you can confirm that he sounded really on the edge, right? | ||
| Yeah, I got a call from him about 30 seconds before I went on the air, and he was just outright panic. | ||
| There's no other word for it. | ||
| I mean, he was in an outright panic. | ||
| And my feeling was, have you ever been in a position where somebody... | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's what he communicated very strongly. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So at that point. | ||
| And he said at that point, he said, I'm not going to go to Washington. | ||
| I'm not going to see anybody. | ||
| I've just got to hide. | ||
| I've got to get lost. | ||
| You know, they're going to get me. | ||
| They're going to get me. | ||
| And he went on to describe the activities of the Defense Intelligence Agency at JPL. | ||
| Now, this rang kind of a bell in my alarm system because he had moved from dumb courier who sees photographs he's not supposed to see to someone who now was telling me that there was a lot going on at JPL, there was military influence, people were being watched, and that there were other missions involved besides Mars Surveyor. | ||
| Well, as a matter of fact, he was so afraid for his life, we should tell the audience, that you said, look, stay off the phones, without notice, show up at my home. | ||
| I was going to get to that. | ||
| We will protect you. | ||
| I offered him my hospitality. | ||
| I said, I hope you're not allergic to cats because I've got three. | ||
| Well, I was doing anything to try to get him to come back down to the human level because this guy sounded on the edge of forever. | ||
| He really sounded like somebody who's poised to jump off a bridge. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| And that kind of caught him up. | ||
| And he says, you're really serious about this? | ||
| I said, absolutely. | ||
| I had Nick and Dana here, and I said, you show up. | ||
| Don't tell me when, what flight, whatever, or what bus. | ||
| I said, you show up and call me, and we'll have you picked up. | ||
| I said, you will be absolutely safe here. | ||
| Nobody is going to pull anything if you're here. | ||
| Nobody. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I adamantly believe that. | ||
| And he more or less took you up on that offer and said he would do that, right? | ||
| He said he would seriously consider it. | ||
| And that's how we left it. | ||
| It was like a foreign thought to him. | ||
| And it really kind of brought him down to where he became more coherent. | ||
| And obviously, I was sincere. | ||
| Now, as you know, I'm going to San Diego at the end of the week. | ||
| I'm going to do one of the chat clubs with David in San Diego. | ||
| So we had a tight time window here because I had to be here so he would arrive in time. | ||
| And I was thinking of actually taking him to San Diego if that became necessary. | ||
| To continue the protection. | ||
| To continue the protection and just being visible. | ||
| My whole thesis is that this stuff can only go on when the light is not shown upon it. | ||
| As soon as you shine a flashlight, the cockroaches scurry and run under the bed. | ||
| So in the last 24 hours, I've been waiting for a call that he was here. | ||
| Tonight, he called. | ||
| And in the interim, several of the developments took place. | ||
| How close are we getting to the bottom of the hour? | ||
| We've got about six minutes. | ||
| Well, five minutes or so. | ||
| One of the developments was David Oast was on vacation and traveling around the country. | ||
| And I made a copy of the interview on Friday night. | ||
| And I was not able to set exit to him until he arrived back on Monday. | ||
| So it was there Tuesday morning. | ||
| Today is Wednesday of. | ||
| Tuesday morning, David got his copy of the tape and immediately proceeded to start to analyze it. | ||
| In the interim, we had these other people doing due diligence, including my friend Tammy Taylor at UPN, who had offered to physically go to Kent's friend and pick up the documentation, his W-2s, his payroll slips, all that. | ||
| I became increasingly concerned when weird things kept happening. | ||
| His friend wouldn't call him. | ||
| He wouldn't show up. | ||
| He couldn't get down to the studio. | ||
| In other words, more and more excuses for doing the obvious to keep this person safe began turning up. | ||
| So by the time Kent called tonight, I not only was suspicious for a variety of, shall we say, gumshoe reasons, good, plain investigative technique, but I also had, as an ace in the hole, a preliminary overview of a transcript that David Oates had prepared at great cost to time and effort and all that because he just got back from this trip. | ||
| Yeah, doing reversals on a 30 or 45 minute interview with short notice is very, very tough. | ||
| It's incredibly time-consuming and intensive, and David, you know, really deserves a gold star for coming through because, frankly, if I had not had David Oates reversals to confront our friend Kent with, we would still be in limbo and not know whether this was real or some big shaggy dog story. | ||
| But the fact of the matter is that when he called me tonight, he sounded much more coherent. | ||
| He said, I've thought it over. | ||
| He said, I'm going to come. | ||
| He says, I'll be arriving sometime on Thursday. | ||
| Oh, did he? | ||
| No, so you hadn't told me this. | ||
| He said he was going to be on his way to you? | ||
| He said he was on his way. | ||
| And what I did was, knowing what David had already given me, I thought, okay, now we'll start. | ||
| We'll basically reverse the game. | ||
| And I said, well, I'm not going to be here. | ||
| I'm going to be in San Diego. | ||
| There was a long pause. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then he said, well, he says, I've got the documents. | ||
| My Wells Fargo friend that I was telling you about, well, he didn't really work for Wells Fargo. | ||
| He actually was JPL Security. | ||
| He told me this. | ||
| All right? | ||
| JPL Security. | ||
| Yeah, that's what he claimed. | ||
| Now, remember, we have to put everything Kent has said in brackets. | ||
| This is merely his story. | ||
| Now, that's really interesting. | ||
| Why would he even begin to trust somebody from JPL Security if he had just been canned from JPL for seeing photographs you shouldn't have seen? | ||
| You would think JPL Security would be the last person that he would trust. | ||
| Well, remember the other night how I told you when his friend was supposed to fax us the documents and they didn't get faxed? | ||
| And he had gone back to his apartment with Kent somewhere in New England, this guy is wandering around Los Angeles with his documents. | ||
| Now, this is a pretty fancy thing they're doing, folks, because I asked Richard, he got a call from Kent, who was on the run, and you got caller ID there, and I asked you at the time, you may recall Richard, what did the caller ID say? | ||
| And you said it showed a New England area code. | ||
| That meant Kent had gone from Ohio to New England. | ||
| Well, actually, my caller ID did not correspond to New England, okay? | ||
| Well, you told me that. | ||
| No, I think you may have misunderstood. | ||
| No. | ||
| I asked you specifically about caller ID, Richard. | ||
| I said you got caller ID right. | ||
| No, he gave me an area code, all right? | ||
| The reason I know he was there is he gave me an area code to call him back in the phone booth. | ||
| Oh, I understand. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| So it did not show up on your caller ID. | ||
| No, but he actually eventually gave me that phone booth to call him. | ||
| Okay, so you actually returned a call to that area code. | ||
| Okay, well, that's just as good then. | ||
| So he fled from Ohio to New England. | ||
| We'll hold it right there, and we'll let the rest of this story unwind. | ||
| And hold on, folks, Because David Oates is coming up with the reversals that clinched it all. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AF. | ||
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Coast to Coast AF. | |
| Kingdom of Twi. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell. | ||
| First time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222. | ||
| 702-727-1222. | ||
| Now, here again, Gizard. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| We've got Richard C. Hopeless and David Oates, and the subject is going to be the Kent Interview, the alleged J.P.L. employee. | ||
| We've got a lot to do tonight, and I would like to offer Kent the opportunity. | ||
| Kent, you have my number. | ||
| If you want to get on the air and defend yourself, if you feel you can even do that, call that number now. | ||
| Give my wife a number to call you back, and I'll get you on the air. | ||
| And we'll have a real roundhouse because little you hear what's coming out. | ||
| Am I ready yet to tell you what this is? | ||
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Nope. | |
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| Who's the pain? | ||
| Well, all right. | ||
| All I have to say is we had better find out who Cartman's father is tonight on South Park, which is recorded. | ||
| Or I'm going to go find the people who do that show and wring their necks personally. | ||
| Some of you will understand that comment. | ||
| Others will not. | ||
| Back now to Richard C. Hoagland, and the saga continues. | ||
| Richard? | ||
| Yeah, see, everyone has to understand the reason you and I were, shall we say, somewhat predisposed to believe that Kent was telling us a version, a close version of the truth, is there is other evidence being developed behind the scenes, which points to the fact that JPL is not giving us the full picture on these pictures. | ||
| Well, of course, we had David Oates on a long time ago now and reversed two NASA employees who came on my program. | ||
| So tonight, I'm sure they're going to be very gratified to hear the tables turn. | ||
| Well, they may or may not be because it's that old phrase, birds of the feather, flock, etc. | ||
| The information I'm alluding to is not reverse speech. | ||
| It has to do with some new information developed and communicated to me just in the last half hour from the time we decided to do this from Tom Van Flander. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Really? | ||
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Yes. | |
| Everybody should know the next and third in this series of photographs of the Saidone area will be imaged this coming Friday in the morning. | ||
| And so Friday will be another big day. | ||
| Yes, about mid-morning Pacific time, they're going to reveal or release the third strip of pictures. | ||
| This picture is supposed to be across the fort, down across the city, and across that south pyramid. | ||
| So it should be a pretty interesting morning. | ||
| Considered to be, I think, the greatest opportunity to prove artificiality, right? | ||
| With regard to that. | ||
| But anyway, back to Kim. | ||
| Well, before I get to Ken, what Tom is working on, and there's a very quiet set of briefings that are going to be continuing now tomorrow and the next day in Washington, is information indicating good hard forensic evidence possibly leading to proof that the raw picture we saw two weeks ago was not a raw picture. | ||
| All right? | ||
| I'm talking hard science. | ||
| And I can't say anymore right now, but it's pretty damn good evidence. | ||
| I've seen it. | ||
| My evaluation is it really could be a smoking gun that we're not dealing with raw data. | ||
| Now, it's against that backdrop that I'm having these continuing conversations with Kent, right? | ||
| Because he is telling us a lot of people who are going to work in the streets, right? | ||
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So there's a long reason to believe that they have to find this truth, or without just a short term. | |
| The part of my life was a cold night. | ||
| And I had this preaching from David earlier in the afternoon, so I knew, I understood how I worked with that, so I did work. | ||
| So he probably said, I'm coming. | ||
| I said, well, we are going to hear the fact that I'm waiting. | ||
| And then he started telling me about his brother and the documents and the fact that his Wells Fargo friend turned out to be a JPL security friend and that the reason they had come down on him, remember the two feds I told you about that supposedly greeted him back at his apartment after he tried to access these documents? | ||
| He said, well, they're really after him because he took some pages out of a log. | ||
| And I said, wait a minute, Ken. | ||
| I said, just hold it there. | ||
| I said, this is a scam. | ||
| I said, this is an inside job. | ||
| You're being put up to this. | ||
| You're not a totally willing participant. | ||
| But this is a number to basically attack Bell's credibility and mine. | ||
| Well, there was this stunned silence in the phone booth. | ||
| It was like I'd thrown a hand grenade into the small confined space of the phone booth. | ||
| And then Kent said, after a very long pause, how did you know? | ||
| And I said, because, I said, we reversed you. | ||
| And he said, oh, and I can't use what he said. | ||
| Oh, shoot. | ||
| It was a little stronger. | ||
| And then he said, he started telling me, he completely changed. | ||
| He said, you know, he said, I've got to tell you, you know, I work for, and he named an agency that he ostensibly worked for. | ||
| And he said, this is part of the disinformation campaign. | ||
| And it is targeted at Bell. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, absolutely. | ||
| And he said, we didn't think you'd catch on this quickly. | ||
| He says, how did you do it? | ||
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I said, it's called science. | |
| And he says, look, he says, you're a nice guy. | ||
| He says, you know, he says, you're probably wondering why I'm owning up to this. | ||
| He said, Because when you invited me to your house, he said, I realized that some people could get hurt with this. | ||
| I see. | ||
| That's exactly what he said. | ||
| I said, Kent, actually, at this point, he'd given me his, quote, real name, which we've agreed we're not going to use on the air tonight because once a liar, twice a liar. | ||
| If he's picked some other poor slob out of the phone book, we don't want people to go after him. | ||
| You know, I said, look, I said, we're really all on the same side here. | ||
| You know, there's a constitution. | ||
| Does anybody above you, behind you, and back of you, putting you up to this, understand that all we're after is the truth? | ||
| And then that's when he said, well, he said, my phone card's running out. | ||
| Can you call me back? | ||
| And he gave me the number of the phone booth he was in. | ||
| He hung up. | ||
| I dialed him back within three seconds, and the line was busy. | ||
| It was busy for a minute and 37 seconds. | ||
| And then when it rang, it rang through, and he wasn't there. | ||
| So obviously he was calling his superiors, and then he obviously split. | ||
| And I don't think we're going to hear from Kent again. | ||
| Well, as I said, he's got my private number, as you well know. | ||
| And if he wants to call right now, you and I both know damn well he's listening to this. | ||
| If he has any defense for what's coming up and what's been said already, then he should be calling my private number and giving me a number where I can call him back and get him on the air. | ||
| But I doubt he's going to do it. | ||
| Well, the thing that's important to remember here is that the way we caught him was a combination of good old-fashioned detective work, things that did not add up. | ||
| And again, I've got to say that MSNBC was very, very hopeful in that regard. | ||
| As was my friend in Hawaii, who I will not mention because I think he wants to remain kind of anonymous. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But the real gem here that cracked it, and I cannot say enough for David Oates, everyone looks at reverse speech in a very jaundiced way. | ||
| You and I, Art, have had our differences of opinion as to the ultimate validity and what does it mean and all that. | ||
| In this case, by simply doing a pattern match, in other words, you don't have to interpret what the reverse speech is saying. | ||
| You simply have to lay it side by side to other examples of reversals. | ||
| And it was the fingerprint pattern match that caught Kent in the act. | ||
| And with that, I think we should probably go to David. | ||
| Well, we will in a second. | ||
| You know, if the intent of this was disinformation to destroy my credibility, that's a pretty pathetic goal because, Richard, I'll put anything on the air. | ||
| You know that. | ||
| That's me. | ||
| I'm an open forum, and I'll put anything on the air. | ||
| And I do. | ||
| And when I put it on the air in the first place, I didn't warranty it to be the truth. | ||
| Simply his story. | ||
| So if he was a disinformation agent, part of a government agency trying to discredit me, you know, it's like ridiculous. | ||
| It's just ridiculous. | ||
| Nothing there is going to discredit me. | ||
| I will continue to put interesting stories on the air without warrantying to anybody that it's absolutely the truth unless I know it to be. | ||
| I think one of the problems is that there are people in NASA, and remember I've always separated the small group of what I call the rogue element from the larger body of the honest folks that really believe in the same things that we believe in. | ||
| That rogue element, I think, is so no prejudice in their analysis of what it is that we do and other guests you have on that talk about similar investigations. | ||
| Pissed off. | ||
| Well, no, no, where I'm going is they do not give us credit for appropriate scientific or investigative procedures. | ||
| Well, they tried to set us up. | ||
| I think what they thought would happen is that you and I would buy this hookline and sinker. | ||
| We would extol it from the rooftops. | ||
| We would yell, Hosanna, Hosanna, we've got him. | ||
| And then they would jump out from behind the bushes and yell, boo, got you. | ||
| They thought that that's what we would do. | ||
| I think that's what the plan was. | ||
| Well, then they don't listen to my program because I don't do that. | ||
| And they have not followed Enterprise very carefully either. | ||
| But again, I want to go back to David. | ||
| Without David's forensic tool, and last September when David and I were on stage in Pasadena, a lot of people asked me, and a lot of people asked him separately, why are you guys getting together? | ||
| What can you possibly have in common? | ||
| And what we have in common is we're both at the cutting edge of some very controversial research, which circumstances have now brought together. | ||
| And the tool that reverse speech turns out to be, regardless of the interpretive value, merely as a forensic fingerprint tool, in this case, nailed Kent to the wall. | ||
| Well, again, I find it interesting. | ||
| In other words, you really do conclude, and I almost hate to get David on the air before the top of the hour, but you do conclude that this was an attempt to destroy Michael or your credibility or both. | ||
| Well, I think it's both. | ||
| And there's hard data. | ||
| There's Nalen's claims about it. | ||
| There's, as I said tonight, the new forensics that Dr. Van Flannern is pursuing. | ||
| In the midst of all that, if you're sitting out in America, coast to coast, and you're just listening to the radio, it's hard to know what to believe. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| The old idea that if you throw enough spaghetti on the wall, some of it will stick, I think more than destroy, it was an effort to distract. | ||
| And the real essence of this mission is what's on those images. | ||
| And there's astonishingly powerful confirmatory evidence of extraterrestrial ruins tonight on Mars that are up on the website that can be reached through your website or going directly to Enterprise. | ||
| And if people don't lose focus and they keep looking at those images and the new analyses, and we're going to put some very important things up there in the next few days. | ||
| That's where we should be following the trail. | ||
| This political hanky-panky, this kind of grown-up men playing kid games in a sandbox, running around the country on phone cards, calling us anonymously from various phone booths in the middle of the night. | ||
| Now, this had to be a pretty well-laid-out plan on somebody's part. | ||
| I mean, here was this guy hopping all over geography, making calls, and trying to convince Linda Howe and yourself and myself that he's legit. | ||
| So this had to be a pretty complicated disinformation plan. | ||
| But if it, again, I say, if they were coming after me, they're off their rockers. | ||
| They must be awfully angry at some of what we have done to do this. | ||
| Well, he did say tonight, flat out, he said, you're getting really close. | ||
| And the reason I think we should take that seriously is as David is going to show you, this individual, Kent, was not the outsider, the poor dumb courier brought in for a kind of a gopher job ten months ago. | ||
| But from the pattern of the reversals, he is as part of the in-crowd in this rogue group as any of the other people that we have reversed or analyzed. | ||
| And that's the fingerprints that gave him away, which puts, in other words, we need to put into context what he said and the other things he revealed, because again, some of it could be disinformation, but the reversals show a pattern which is not disinformation, and that's how he got caught. | ||
| Well, yes. | ||
| Once somebody has lied, I'm hesitant to believe anything at all they're going to say. | ||
| And I would like to offer one more time, just in case. | ||
| I mean, we all know Kent's sitting out there, probably with a nervous tick, listening to every word of this, anticipating the reversals that are about to come up. | ||
| And Ken, if you have any possible defense whatsoever, anything that you would like to get off your disinformational chest, you've got my number. | ||
| Call it from a phone booth or whatever. | ||
| Give me a number, and we'll call and get you on the air. | ||
| But you don't expect him to take me up on that offer, do you? | ||
| Well, there were two things. | ||
| He asked me to call him back, which I did, and he had split. | ||
| So he abrogated the agreement that he would talk to me further. | ||
| Because I wanted to go through point by point some of these reversals to basically ask him what was on your mind when you were saying these things. | ||
| Number two, he did not want me to do tonight what we're doing now. | ||
| He wanted me to tell you off the air that he had owned up, that he had confessed, that we had caught him. | ||
| No, I don't do things off the air. | ||
| He did not want me to do it on the air. | ||
| No, see, that's the whole thing. | ||
| I don't do that kind of thing off the air and then come on the air and tell the audience a story. | ||
| I let it all hang out here on the air, whichever way it goes. | ||
| I always have. | ||
| That's my way. | ||
| And that's what I guess somebody out there simply doesn't understand. | ||
| I don't care what goes on the air. | ||
| As long as it's interesting, as long as it pursues ultimately the truth, I don't care. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| And I'd just soon have him on here trying to defend himself to see if there's any possible substance or reason he would like to offer up for what he did. | ||
| And if the entire goal was to get to me, it was sure a poor attempt. | ||
| If it was to get to you, it was a poor attempt. | ||
| Because we're not about to accept that face value. | ||
| I certainly am not. | ||
| Anything anybody says, allowing it on the air is one thing. | ||
| Believing it and adding weight to it by saying I believe it is another. | ||
| Well, you know how process-oriented I am, sometimes to the point of pain. | ||
| And what I find heartening about this whole process is we've been able to lay out for the country, for your audience, the beginning of the story, the middle of the story, and now I don't think this is the end of the story. | ||
| It may not be. | ||
| But I think we're getting close to the end. | ||
| Because if this was not just a random prank, and I don't think that this can be classified that way. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| The reversals do not support that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Richard, I want you to hold on. | ||
| And when we come back, we will do those reversals. | ||
| When the IRS takes on a taxpayer, and they do that frequently, usually a middle-class guy or some small business owner, the IRS wins a documented 85% of the time, which means that you have a 15% chance of winning. | ||
| They win by using fear, intimidation, and the option of a long, drawn-out audit because they have resources. | ||
| Taxpayer, endless resources. | ||
| So you need a strong defense, but you can't go get that defense after you have been sent an audit notice. | ||
| It's the kind of thing that you've got to do now. | ||
| Kind of like trying to go get insurance after your house burns down. | ||
| Tax Resources is a wonderful company that will provide you at a very reasonable cost, host tax advice all year long, and then more importantly, if you receive an audit notice, they'll do it all. | ||
| They will make phone calls to the IRS, answer, respond to the letters for you, and even make personal appearances. | ||
| Now, this service is $295 a year, and it is tax-deductible on top of that. | ||
| How do you beat that? | ||
| That's an awful lot of peace of mind for a very little amount of money. | ||
| The number is 1-888-82AUDIT. | ||
| Now, you can call that number right now, even here in the middle of the night. | ||
| 1-888-82A-U-D-I-T. | ||
| All right. | ||
| When we get back, we will do the reversals that we've been talking about on Kent. | ||
| Should be very, very interesting with David John Oates. | ||
| And continue with Richard Hoagland. | ||
| And one more time, Kent, if you're out there, you have my private number. | ||
| Call it, and I'd be glad to put you on the air. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh on the Wild Guard line at Area Code 702-727-1295. | |
| That's Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| Well, the saga of Kent continues. | ||
| Kent, the alleged JPL employee who claimed he was fired after viewing photographs, and the long saga of discussions between Kent, Linda Malton Howe, and Richard Hopeland over the last, well, going on several days now. | ||
| And tonight we turn the table a little bit. | ||
| We did indeed reverse a couple of NASA fellows who appeared on the show. | ||
| And tonight, and in moments, you are going to hear reversals of Kent, the man who claimed to be a JPL employee, but according to Richard, is more probably a disinformation agent trying to discredit me or Richard or both. | ||
| Now, I tend to believe things that I can prove that I have proven to myself. | ||
| And I have proven to myself that the Jacobs Ultra Team Ignition System is everything it claims to be. | ||
| Zero. | ||
| And check out their webpage at www.jacobselectronics.com. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Richard C. Hoagland, are you there? | ||
| I'm here. | ||
| All right. | ||
| That's one. | ||
| Let's go to this line and say, David John Oates, are you there? | ||
| Yes, I am. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thanks for being patient. | ||
| We had to set that up properly. | ||
| Well, that was quite okay. | ||
| And point of fact, it was very interesting for me to hear the whole story. | ||
| As usual, Richard kept me in the dark about everything, and I am just stunned that what I found correlated with the suspicions that Richard were already having without my knowledge at all. | ||
| And this is about the third or fourth time Richard's done this to me now. | ||
| Now, the audience ought to know that you went into this project more or less hoping to confirm that Kent was telling the truth. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| I really, well, no, I really had absolutely no preconceived notions on this at all. | ||
| I wanted it to be true. | ||
| That's what I mean. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like everyone else, I wanted it to be true. | ||
| It's kind of amusing. | ||
| When David called me this afternoon, he sounded like death warmed over. | ||
| I mean, you know, he's usually kind of up, and he was like, well, and he then told me a few things. | ||
| And I said, David, why are you so down? | ||
| He says, aren't you? | ||
| And I said, no, I want to know the truth. | ||
| This is dynamite because the pattern is what is important. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, I'm always hesitant relaying news that I think people will find disappointing. | ||
| And what I was finding on the Kent reversals was not dealing with his story at all. | ||
| And I was very hesitant calling Richard. | ||
| And so I finally did. | ||
| Now, Richard, of course, had this information earlier in the day, confronted Kent with it, not playing him reversals, but telling him what he knew. | ||
| And Kent fell apart and confessed, virtually confessed on the phone, right, Richard? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Yep. | ||
| All right, let's get to the reversals. | ||
| What is it that was so revealing in the reversals? | ||
| Okay, well, the best way to do that is to play them and discuss them one by one. | ||
| All right, fire away. | ||
| That is what we'll do. | ||
| And I picked up the tape about 10 minutes into the interview. | ||
| I was on a time crunch. | ||
| I'd just come back from vacation, and I really went straight to the heart of the matter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So this is the first forward transcript I picked up. | |
| Put the cap onto the Federal Express cylinder, seal it, take it down to the lady where the Federal Express machine is, and then she fills off the labels, puts them on there, and puts them into the outbound box for Federal Express. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Okay, she's talking about, he's talking about the cylinder which the photos were then. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Right, okay. | ||
| Now, the third reversal, it's not so much what it told me. | ||
| It was, as you probably know, reversals are generally complementary. | ||
| By complementary, I mean they relate to the forward dialogue. | ||
| They either confirm or deny what the man is saying forward. | ||
| Now, the first thing I know about those Ken reversals is that the reversal itself was not totally related to what he was saying forward. | ||
| It was more of a commentary of thoughts that he was thinking at the time. | ||
| And the first one says, we deal with the Snide bigot. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You deal with a Snyder bigot. | |
| You hear that? | ||
| Yeah, very clearly. | ||
| We deal with a Snide bigot, sure. | ||
| And we'll do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You deal with a Snide bigot. | |
| What do you say that means? | ||
| Well, when I first heard it, I was stunned. | ||
| It wasn't until I got to the end of the transcript that I theorised that he was actually... | ||
| He has an ulterior motive and an ulterior agenda. | ||
| Someone who he thinks is snide. | ||
| Probably me. | ||
| Probably me. | ||
| That's exactly what I came to the conclusion of when I got to the end of the transcript and actually heard your name mentioned in eighth verse. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| No kidding. | ||
| Well, I've made lots of enemies. | ||
| You are there, big as life. | ||
| I make lots of enemies. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, well, and clearly, but let me check it. | |
| David? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Art? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The thing this very first reversal revealed is that Kent was not the dupe, the victim, the guy who just tripped over something, but was much more conscious and cunning and planning than anybody in his position telling that story should be. | ||
| All right, let me, if you wouldn't mind, David, I want to hear that one more time in simple. | ||
| I really prefer the you're always slowing it down for me. | ||
| I want to hear it reversed at normal speed, if you would. | ||
| Okay, here it comes now. | ||
| We deal with a snide bigot. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's quite clear. | ||
| We deal with a snide bigot. | ||
| All right? | ||
| Let's do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We deal with a snide bigot. | |
| You got it. | ||
| Very clear. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's alive. | ||
| Clever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, exactly correct. | ||
| And it immediately raised a question in my mind because it was clearly another agenda. | ||
| It wasn't related to what he was saying for us. | ||
| And that always raises warning bells in my mind when I see that type of thing. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| So then we moved on to the next reversal. | ||
| And here's a forward dialogue here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
She had said, okay, that the courier would bring them by. | |
| And so then I didn't have much to do until Federal Express got there. | ||
| So he was just talking about the courier week he was going to bring him more cylinders for the photos. | ||
| And we hear a reversal here that says, they were smart. | ||
| They were smart. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| They were smart. | ||
| Very clear. | ||
| Do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, they're smart. | |
| And the clarity of reversals also struck me as well. | ||
| I take great note when I hear very clear reversals. | ||
| Yes, that's very clear. | ||
| But again, they were smart. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| Once again, it's not related to the forward dialogue. | ||
| He's clearly talking about someone else. | ||
| You put that with the first reversal we do with the sny bigots. | ||
| They were smart. | ||
| I started to see an ulterior motive here, a plan running out. | ||
| They were smart in setting up this entire scenario is how I came to the conclusion as I did more and more reversals. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He is saying one thing, but he's thinking something totally different. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly correct. | |
| Right, right. | ||
| And this is the thing. | ||
| And that right there is a major clue. | ||
| This is not what it appears to be. | ||
| That's the first thing that hit me, Richard. | ||
| You know, this is not normal for reverse speech. | ||
| You normally have these direct complementary relationships. | ||
| As you know, I've done these on your program many, many times, Art. | ||
| And that's the first thing that convinced me about reverse speech back in the early days with this direct complementary relationship. | ||
| But when you see these other agendas running, and you start to ask some questions. | ||
| And then I got to this next third reversal here, and I was almost ready to ring Richard on this one. | ||
| I don't think I rang until I got down to the sixth reversal, but this one I'm about to play you raised many warning bells in my mind. | ||
| And here we go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sitting there drinking some hot chocolate there when the maintenance deck guy walked in. | |
| You know, we always seen each other in halls and whatever. | ||
| We've always given the guy greeting of the day, you know, and everything. | ||
| Okay, now we've got two reversals here. | ||
| The first one says, see a war, you're wanting it. | ||
| See you why you want it, Vic. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Yeah, see a war, you're wanting it. | ||
| Very clear. | ||
| Let's do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
See you why you want it, Vic. | |
| And then he says, had to bring in a new guy. | ||
| Now the end's very quick, so it's probably best to hear had to bring in, sorry, had to bring a new guy. | ||
| And let's do it again. | ||
| A new guy or God, it almost sounded like. | ||
| Let's do it a little bit slower. | ||
| It could be guide, G-U-I-D-E. | ||
| It could be. | ||
| Yeah, one with God. | ||
| It sounds like God to me. | ||
| That's what I said, too. | ||
| Well, I wasn't going to say that. | ||
| Come on, David. | ||
| Be courageous. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm just presenting these very conservatively, Richard. | |
| Okay, then I guess. | ||
| Can you play that one again, please? | ||
| Okay, here it is. | ||
| Yes, if I can use God. | ||
| I think it's God, quite frankly. | ||
| I hear a D myself. | ||
| And that fits in with... | ||
| In my mind, I immediately saw a pattern back to other NASA reversals. | ||
| I saw a reversal on Michael Malan about a new father in the light. | ||
| Reversal on some Mars commentators when the rover was on the planet about who will meet God. | ||
| And I got, bang, this spiritual connection that connected me back to other NASA reversals. | ||
| And by the time I got this third reversal, there was a definite trend running. | ||
| We deal with the snow bigots. | ||
| They were smart. | ||
| See a war, you're wanting it. | ||
| Had to bring a new God, a guy or whatever it was. | ||
| Clearly, this is not some simple courier. | ||
| This is someone who is thinking and planning and strategizing a very carefully laid out scenario. | ||
| And all my warning bells are ringing at this stage. | ||
| My stomach was dropping down to my boots and thinking, oh my gosh, I've got to call Richard. | ||
| And bearing in mind, I've been on vacation for two weeks. | ||
| I've been completely out of the loop. | ||
| I've no idea what's been going on. | ||
| And up until I heard Richard on the program tonight, I had no idea of this other investigation that he was running. | ||
| So there's been a whole lot going on in the background, believe me. | ||
| Anyway, proceed. | ||
| And once again, I'm pleased I did not know because here we've got completely independent corroborative information. | ||
| Okay, so here we go. | ||
| We continue it up. | ||
| He's picking up the picture. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So I bent over to pick up that picture. | |
| I set it down on the table, and I had to unroll that so I could put that picture back in there. | ||
| Okay, now this is a verse with out of left field. | ||
| They handle a weapon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Handle this and again. | |
| Handle this and you got that? | ||
| No. | ||
| They handle clear. | ||
| The word itself, weapon, I can't say that I hear clearly. | ||
| Okay, let's do that at slower speed. | ||
| Handle this. | ||
| Okay, one more time. | ||
| Okay, well. | ||
| Do you hear weapon, Richard? | ||
| No, they handle something. | ||
| I don't think it's weapon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| Well, that's fine. | ||
| Well, then we'll deal with they handle. | ||
| It is, once again, they were smart, they handle. | ||
| This is other people involved. | ||
| We have. | ||
| You have constant references to they. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| I hate to use the word conspiracy, but that is what these reversals deal with. | ||
| We deal with, they were smart, they handle a weapon. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| See a war. | ||
| This is not a courier who is telling a story about pictures. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| All right. | ||
| Now, the next reversal, I want listeners out there to hear this. | ||
| Anyone knows what this word means? | ||
| I would love to know. | ||
| This is, you may remember another program they've done with UART. | ||
| I've found references that I didn't know what they meant, like we found rubber duck or Mike Tyson that someone called in with Punch Drunk. | ||
| And I think that this is reference to some group of some description. | ||
| I think Richard was looking up, what were you looking for, Richard, on this one? | ||
| Well, it appears to be a title or something like Caliph, except it's not Caliph. | ||
| You'll hear it in the reversal. | ||
| So listen carefully out there and facts if you know what this group is referring to. | ||
| Here he's describing the pictures forward. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've got the eyebrows there, and then you've got two eye sockets there. | |
| You've got the nose. | ||
| You've got the two holes there where the nostrils go, and then you've got the mouth. | ||
| And once again, a reversal out of left field. | ||
| The faggish, B-A-G-G-I-S-H, is how it spelled it, warned the bloody earth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just like you sure and the fagirth. | |
| And again, just like you sure and the fagirth. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| I don't know that I heard bloody clearly. | ||
| Oh, I didn't either. | ||
| Huh, okay. | ||
| I think that's David's aussie accent. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| Let's slide it down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just like you sure and disaggire. | |
| Well, what else would it say, Richard? | ||
| It sounds like the baggish warned the baggy earth. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| So there's a redundancy, so we need to even more clearly understand what this term baggish refers to. | ||
| Okay, now the other thing, too, I haven't checked these reversals. | ||
| I normally triple check these three times before I go on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is ours. | |
| I found them raw and cold for stuff. | ||
| Oh, you've been at Warp 9 ever since you got onto this. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I'm amazed I've even got it ready to this stage. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So let's keep. | ||
| So this is raw unchecked. | ||
| And generally before I go to the air, I would normally throw out probably 20 or 30 percent of these reversals. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So we're seeing it live as we plan it. | |
| But the whole trend is still there. | ||
| Well, you can't knock success. | ||
| The guy sounded so stunned, he said, how did you know? | ||
| You know, this is actually how I have worked with police and investigative agencies in the past. | ||
| I was telling Richard, this is not uncommon to me. | ||
| I've found reversals before in the cases I've worked on. | ||
| The investigative officers have then gone and confronted the suspects and said, we have information in our possession that says this and this and this and this. | ||
| And I have seen people crack just like that. | ||
| And when Richard told me this guy cracked and admitted, I wasn't in the least bit surprised because it's in total keeping with the way I've seen reverse speech used in the past before. | ||
| The information is found, it's taken back to the suspect, he's confronted with it, and more often than not, he breaks down and confesses. | ||
| All right, well, let us continue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, all right. | |
| We are looking now at this one here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
One of the walls has been knocked out. | |
| Like, say, if you went inside and had a sledgehammer or something and was knocking out the wall, there was like a rock of, you know, there was rocks that was coming out from that wall. | ||
| And the reversal, I've documented here as I may still see it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
From Ashdel See It. | |
| From Ash Del See It. | ||
| Oh yeah, that's very clear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
From Rashid L City. | |
| Yes, it is. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now that's a possible future. | ||
| That one is related to the photograph, but it's a future tense possibility. | ||
| It's not a present-tense reality, if you understand what I'm saying. | ||
| I would say, if this is indeed talking about the pictures, he has not seen them if they indeed do exist, but he may. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| The transcript does never go to the reality of these supposed photographs at all, not what I've done so far. | ||
| I'll have the whole transcript finished in time for Richard and my presentation at San Diego on Saturday night. | ||
| But there's nothing in here about the reality of the photos, but there are reversals, like I say, that a lowly courier should not have knowledge of, and a clear plan, and I think a disinformation campaign. | ||
| David, do you have the one before that one you just played? | ||
| Yeah, the question mark will. | ||
| Yeah, the question mark went. | ||
| Okay, well, I didn't play that one because there was a word I was unsure of, but maybe if someone can listen to the reversal, they can pick that word out. | ||
| I actually think it's a, he's mentioning someone's name. | ||
| So let's run that. | ||
| I'm picking and choosing what I play, Richard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
One of the photographs that we looked at was, okay, now picture World War II, okay, picture the bombed-out cities of Germany. | |
| Okay, this is Russell. | ||
| I didn't play in order, and it's question mark. | ||
| It's a name I don't recognize. | ||
| We'll see this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In immersed Prozetus. | |
| In immersed Proceedus. | ||
| In immersed Proceedus. | ||
| What have you got there, Richard? | ||
| Sounds like Inimerse. | ||
| We'll see this. | ||
| Yeah, well, but I don't know what Inimerse is or who that is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In immerse, Prozidus. | |
| In immersed Prasidis. | ||
| It's actually Merge SH. | ||
| Do it again. | ||
| We're looking for syllable count, consonant, vowel sounds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In immerse, Proceedus. | |
| So that's why I didn't play it. | ||
| It was the word I could not pull out, so I wasn't going to play that one. | ||
| Maybe it'll mean something to somebody. | ||
| Oh, I'm sure you'll get a lot of factors on this one. | ||
| All right, one of the ways to do this is not to focus on any specific phrase, but it's the gestalt of all of them. | ||
| And it's building a picture here of a guy telling us a story out of one side of his mouth and thinking totally separate things from the other side. | ||
| And I think it was about this time that I rang you, Richard. | ||
| I think I was about this far through when I rang you. | ||
| I said, Richard, we've got something else going on here. | ||
| You do not have a courier who's telling a story about photographs. | ||
| You have someone with a clear agenda. | ||
| He has far much more information than a courier should have. | ||
| All right, now hit us with one more before the bottom of the hour here. | ||
| Okay, all right. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And, you know, he's given us a few unpleasant subtleties there as he's putting the photographs back in between the cardboard. | |
| And he immediately rushes out there with them. | ||
| That's an unusual reversal. | ||
| Goodbye, you used him. | ||
| I think this is internal dialogue. | ||
| He's talking to himself. | ||
| He either used you or used Richard or used someone else. | ||
| But let's run it. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Yeah, I'm very clear. | ||
| Goodbye, you used him. | ||
| Okay, and that is whoever him is, the whole trend is still there. | ||
| There is ulterior modifier, hidden agenda. | ||
| I'm very careful about what I've document in reverse. | ||
| There's a lot of reversals I do not document because they're not clear enough to play on the air. | ||
| Hence, I will generally only get half a picture instead of a full picture. | ||
| But I am confident that the half a picture I've got is at least accurate. | ||
| And my whole approach to reversal analysis is to be cautious. | ||
| And I teach my students in class, I'd rather you document 10 reversals that we can be absolutely sure of and have at least that half of the picture. | ||
| All right. | ||
| David, hold it right there. | ||
| At least enough to determine that you felt he wasn't telling the truth from the high desert. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We'll be right back. | |
| You have a facts for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine. | ||
| Send it to him at Area Code 702-727-8499. | ||
| 702-727-8499. | ||
| Please limit your facts to one or two figures. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. | ||
| Now, here again is Art Bell. | ||
| Once again, here I am on Rock. | ||
| Well, all right. | ||
| Back now to Richard C. Hopeland and David John Oates. | ||
| And gentlemen, I have a fax here from a ham in Richmond, Virginia, fellow ham, who says, look, what was said was they handle Houston. | ||
| Now, I don't know if that is, in fact, what was said or not, but we were wondering, and if that, in fact, what was what was said, it would be very meaningful. | ||
| David, do you have that one? | ||
| Yes, I do. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| Handle this. | ||
| God absent on that, isn't it? | ||
| Handle Distance. | ||
| Oh, that's it. | ||
| They handle Houston. | ||
| Now, keep in mind that Houston was the day after the event that he was allegedly talking to us about occurred. | ||
| On Tuesday, on the 14th, the photos came in from the second strip over Sidonia. | ||
| As they were being downlinked to Earth at around noon, Clinton and Golden and a congressman from the Houston district, congressional district, were giving a series of short speeches to the crowd at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. | ||
| And they kept talking about a manned mission to Mars. | ||
| I recall. | ||
| Now, I have given David that tape. | ||
| I will have those of us ready for our presentation in San Diego on Saturday night. | ||
| They handle Houston. | ||
| People know exactly what's going on there. | ||
| The timing of all of this and the fact that in reverse he's talking about the pictures and he's thinking they handle Houston. | ||
| Who are they again? | ||
| Oh, no, that makes sense. | ||
| The they're all there, the we're all there. | ||
| And you may recall, too, that on the reversals of Michael Malam, there was a reversal about concealing the picture with a blank. | ||
| And we played that on the air before the pictures ever came down. | ||
| I remember that. | ||
| As a matter of fact, that first strip we got. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| I saw that, the blank picture, and my mind immediately flashed back to Malam and the reversal I played on your program. | ||
| All right, let us proceed now with the reversals on Kent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| We're going to this... | ||
| I'm going to play it. | ||
| Unfortunately, I didn't dump it quite properly, and by the time we went to air, I didn't have a chance to go back. | ||
| But let's just run it because it's the theme in his reversals. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because one of the big wigs down here didn't like me looking at them pictures. | |
| And the reversal is, he's talking about the big wigs down. | ||
| The reversal actually says they planned to kill him, but I didn't, I cut off the end. | ||
| I cut off the hymn, and I'll go back in and have it corrected by the time it goes on the side. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Miss Annie Phillip. | |
| Oh, no, no, no, I heard it. | ||
| Miss Anne Fully. | ||
| No, I heard it. | ||
| I heard it. | ||
| That's all I had to kill them. | ||
| Yeah, well, the actual hymn was actually quite pronounced when I found it. | ||
| I just cut the game. | ||
| And I just stepped on it. | ||
| Can you turn up the game, David? | ||
| Yeah, okay, right. | ||
| I had it actually too loud before, so I turned it down. | ||
| So now we'll turn again up, and let's do this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Miss Annie Phillips. | |
| Miss Annie Fully. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| That's clear. | ||
| Miss Annie Phillips. | ||
| And see, he says this twice. | ||
| We plan to kill. | ||
| It was also said at the end of the transcript as well. | ||
| And by this time, I'm getting nervous. | ||
| I mean, this is Not a courier. | ||
| This is someone with great knowledge. | ||
| Obviously. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's planning something out very, very seriously. | |
| When we get to the reverse on you, you'll see it's a clear disinformation campaign. | ||
| And this next reversal here also tied this directly back into NASA, the one I'm about to play. | ||
| He uses the term reverse ship, which is, I have found that on the NASA reversals constantly about Mars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And only. | |
| And only Mars. | ||
| They don't show up in Clinton. | ||
| They don't show up in Mike Tyson. | ||
| They don't show up in Hillary. | ||
| They show up with NASA. | ||
| And I heard this reversal. | ||
| The reversal itself doesn't make much sense to me, but the great sense of you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I did. | |
| Yes, I did. | ||
| And he said it doesn't matter. | ||
| You should have just put the picture back in there. | ||
| We don't need. | ||
| He said, no, not him now. | ||
| The other bigwig that I heard down there in the cafeteria. | ||
| We don't need the American public looking at these pictures. | ||
| We don't need the American public looking at these pictures. | ||
| And backwards, it's a very long reversal. | ||
| They see it on you, being naughty when they grabbed her ship. | ||
| An unusual reversal, but it's the pattern that got me going. | ||
| The her ship. | ||
| We've had her on the NASA reversals and ship as well. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| The reversal is art. | ||
| They see it on you. | ||
| be naughty when they grabbed her ship. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, see, if they were naughty when they grabbed her ship. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Do you hear that? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Let's do it again. | ||
| they see it on you being naughty when they grabbed her ship. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They see it on you being naughty when they grabbed her ship. | |
| Yes, yes, too clear. | ||
| Very clear reversal, grammatically correct, a long sentence. | ||
| Gentlemen, this is very important. | ||
| We've all had interesting disagreements about the meaning of certain of these phrases. | ||
| But what I find striking is the commonality of the same theme in Kent's subconscious with other NASA people who we believe are aware of a hidden agenda. | ||
| Well, there's a constant reference to us or they or a group, not an individual action. | ||
| And you know, this one was grabbed her ship. | ||
| Remember, Malin said the same phrase almost the same way. | ||
| Exactly correct. | ||
| And that's what got me. | ||
| And, you know, based on my 15 years of research with reverse speech, I know that groups of people or peer groups tend to run the same reverse speech patterns. | ||
| You can actually tell family members in reverse by the commonality of their reversals. | ||
| They're like fingerprints. | ||
| So this tells us that he's not an outsider, not somebody just running errands. | ||
| He's one of the insiders in whatever this inside deal is. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, by the time this stage came along, Richard, I was absolutely convinced. | ||
| And like I say, I've still only analyzed half this tape, and we'll have the whole story. | ||
| Well, as much as I can get out by Saturday night in San Diego. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He also says in reverse names, many names. | |
| And I've still got to pull all these together. | ||
| This is my preliminary analysis. | ||
| And for that reason, it's a gold mine because names, they do occur in reverse, but they are rare. | ||
| But he's got at least a half a dozen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And here's one other name. | |
| Because I was the one that put the label on myself, and it was going to Langley. | ||
| It was going to Langley. | ||
| I will deal with, and I think it's Lupit. | ||
| I've documented it as L-U-P-E-R-T. | ||
| No, we'll be able to do it. | ||
| And let's do it a little bit slower. | ||
| No one will be able to do it. | ||
| Okay, you got that? | ||
| Well, I will deal with, it's certainly as clear as can be. | ||
| You're right, it's some name that I wouldn't know. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What do you hear there, Richard? | ||
| Let's do it one more time. | ||
| Huh? | ||
| Luprit is, for the time being. | ||
| Yeah, I originally documented as Rupert, but then on reconsideration, I finally went back for Lupert. | ||
| Let's do it one more time. | ||
| Carl will be a little loopet. | ||
| Yeah, I hear the L there, Richard. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I will have all this out by Saturday night, and we'll have this whole thing blown wide open. | ||
| But I was disappointed. | ||
| I so much wanted those pictures, to be real. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| Look, regardless of whether Kent's story was true, Kent's real story is true. | ||
| And the real story is, frankly, a lot more interesting than his fake story. | ||
| Oh, exactly correct. | ||
| And he's confirming the hidden agenda by some group in this agency. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Okay, now here we have a reversal about you, Art. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I got the perfect guy you need to talk to. | |
| And I says, well, who's that? | ||
| I said, I don't really want to talk to anybody. | ||
| And he says, you need to talk to Arbell. | ||
| And so he started going into this elaborate thing about your show and what it consists of and what you talk about. | ||
| Please be sure and thank him for me. | ||
| Okay, now there's two reversals here. | ||
| The first one is not, once again, I didn't get that one dumped. | ||
| It's on my website, but it says I will. | ||
| And it's a word for set you up or do you harm, okay? | ||
| And I couldn't play it on the air anyway. | ||
| And then the next one after that is... | ||
| You could play it on ToolTime. | ||
| ToolTime? | ||
| What's Tool Time? | ||
| It's an American reference to a comedy show about Home Fix It Builders. | ||
| Oh, many tools they use. | ||
| Yeah, Vacqué. | ||
| Starting with an S. Exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And then he says, your bell will see this. | |
| And it's the Yaw Bell that actually, and I'm sure that's a direct reference to you because he does reference you forwards. | ||
| It's the Yaw Bell that's got my questions raised. | ||
| I'm not too sure exactly what he means by that. | ||
| But here we go. | ||
| Oh, I'm seeing. | ||
| He says, loving it, your bell will see this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it's your bell to see this. | |
| I think it's your bell to see this. | ||
| Actually, let's just play the last half. | ||
| That's probably a bit easier. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're about the city. | |
| Okay? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're about the city. | |
| And it's almost like, well, he will buy This story, if that makes sense. | ||
| Okay, and I've just got one other reversal I want to play, and that is another name is mentioned here. | ||
| Very significant reversal. | ||
| You don't even have this one on your script, Richard. | ||
| I found this one just before we went to air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Here we go. | |
| And I noticed that the phone had been moved. | ||
| I mean, it wasn't in the same place. | ||
| I mean, well, I could just tell that by just looking at the circle underneath the phone where the phone used to be. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| Okay, now, this is two reversals separated by gibberish. | ||
| And the gibberish is still in there. | ||
| I haven't had a chance to totally prepare this, but a very significant reversal. | ||
| He mentions a name, and I've got it documented as Little Moffat, M-O-S-F-A-T. | ||
| Then there's about two seconds of gibberish followed by he planned it. | ||
| Oh, I hear that. | ||
| And let's do it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The warfare the internet pushes that it. | |
| You got that, Richard? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Let's do it again. | ||
| Oh, I've got it. | ||
| Yeah, it's pretty good. | ||
| Okay, he planned it, little Moffat. | ||
| And so what we've got here on a preliminary analysis that was done just this afternoon under great pressure is a series of reversals that do not deal with what is saying forward. | ||
| It shows a clear undercurrent, a hidden motive, a hidden agenda, a man who knows far more information than what he should know, working in a conspiratorial, I mean, a conspiracy, the only word you can say with we, they, you, your, I. Sure, a lot of that. | ||
| And that's what we've got. | ||
| All right, David, thank you so very much. | ||
| I know that you and Richard are going to be in San Diego. | ||
| When is this and where and what? | ||
| Let me give out an 800 number for people who want to get tickets to David and my presentation, which will, in addition to these reversals, will have some pretty astonishing enhanced pictures from the actual surveyor, including from the third photo that's being released on Friday morning. | ||
| All right. | ||
| The number is 888-338-8581. | ||
| That's 888-338-8581. | ||
| And that's tickets to the Art Belt Chat Club appearance of you and David on this coming Saturday on April 25th, better known as Richard's Birthday Bash. | ||
| Where and when? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's in San Diego in the Del Mar Hall of Theater. | |
| It's the Del Mar Hilton. | ||
| The Del Mar Hilton. | ||
| The Delmar Hilton. | ||
| 7 o'clock. | ||
| 7 o'clock at the Del Mar Hilton. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I'll have a whole bunch more information to present there. | ||
| And if I can get out my number for anyone interested in reverse speech, if I may, that's 1-800-669-5789. | ||
| 800-669-5789 for further information about reverse speech or the work that I do. | ||
| All right, then at this point, David, I'm going to thank you for the very fast work on this topic. | ||
| Well, thank you for have with me on your program again, Art. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| David Oates. | ||
| Now, Richard, again, for the rest of the audience that may have joined at midnight, you armed with all of this information, and I guess a script of all of this, when Kent called you earlier today, confronted him with this, and he broke down and virtually confessed. | ||
| He did confess. | ||
| Saying that, admitting to you that he was. | ||
| He claimed that he was part of a special disinformation unit of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and this had been a plan crafted to disinform you and me and the American people who listened to us, and that he was tired of the games, and the reason he was coming clear is because he was struck by the fact that I'd be willing to put myself on the line and have him come here to keep him safe. | ||
| And I really want to emphasize this. | ||
| When we talk about other folks and other groups and other agendas, we're really all human beings. | ||
| And I think the reason that he simply leveled with me tonight is because I dealt with him as a real person who was in trouble, who needed our help. | ||
| And he responded. | ||
| Yeah, you were offering the opportunity literally to come to your house. | ||
| In fact, you were going to take him to San Diego with you, all of this to protect him. | ||
| And then you confronted him with the fact that you knew it was a fraudulent story, and he virtually admitted the whole thing to you. | ||
| He did admit the whole thing, and then added additional bonuses, which, of course, we cannot verify at this point. | ||
| But in consistency with the reversals, I would say that he was not acting alone. | ||
| He was part of this interior NASA rogue group. | ||
| They have an agenda. | ||
| And as a human being, he apparently felt that I was not the person that he had been portrayed, you know, that I was portrayed to him as. | ||
| And when I was able to confront him with David's work, he basically told us the truth. | ||
| Remarkable. | ||
| I can only assume that somebody somewhere or some bodies are very displeased with me and with you. | ||
| And this was a little plan to try and get us in trouble, try in some way to get us to grasp this and confirm it on the air as though it is our own belief, so as to discredit us. | ||
| That's the only thing I can imagine the motive would be behind it. | ||
| I basically think you're right. | ||
| But the important thing to remember is that in science and in investigative materials, you follow the yellow brick road. | ||
| You follow the data wherever it leads. | ||
| And in this case, it led to a rather surprising set of revelations. | ||
| Do you ever expect you will hear from our friend Kent again? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's really irrelevant because the science and the photographs and the confirmations are there, and we're doing additional work. | ||
| I had a call tonight from Ron Nix, who's preparing A geology paper on things that are not geology down on that surface. | ||
| We have the third set of images coming in on Friday morning. | ||
| Golden has held out the promise through John Holloman that we might take additional pictures if everyone is not satisfied. | ||
| Can I see a show of hands? | ||
| Is everybody satisfied yet? | ||
| Well, with regard to the first image of the face on Mars, my hand is way up in the air. | ||
| Hell no, I'm not satisfied. | ||
| I wasn't satisfied that night. | ||
| I'm not satisfied now. | ||
| And as a matter of fact, the people who have interpreted the photographs, including Mark Carlotto and everybody else concerned, even Malin really wasn't satisfied and admitted that there was, what was the word he used? | ||
| Haze, whatever. | ||
| No, hell no, we're not satisfied. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| Let us get a picture that Kent claims he saw, one that looks roughly right down on the face. | ||
| Well, again, now, given our understanding of who this person is and his involvement in something much deeper, the way you hook people with a lie, as you know, is to mix it with the truth. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And what we found out as part of David's work and as part of our own investigative work, this was a lie concealing some truths. | ||
| And the important truths are still to be unveiled, so all I can say is stay tuned. | ||
| Well, look, my attitude is once a person is known to have lied to you, that you should disbelieve based on that, whatever else they tell you. | ||
| However, it might be interesting if Kent really is coming clean based on what you said out of sort of a guilty conscience because you offered him safe harbor, then maybe he would like to let us know who really is behind this. | ||
| Maybe he'd like to give us names. | ||
| Maybe he'd like to give us documentation. | ||
| And maybe there's cheese on the moon. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Well, he did say he was tired of the game. | ||
| He did say that. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I mean. | ||
| That's somebody who sounds like he's ready to say, I've had enough of this, and so here's the truth. | ||
| And it would be very nice to hear from him in a truthful manner. | ||
| It certainly would. | ||
| So that offer remains. | ||
| Richard, thank you. | ||
| And, of course, David, I thank David, and I want to thank him again. | ||
| So there it is, folks. | ||
| The story. | ||
| Richard, we will speak with you, I'm sure, after the photograph on Friday. | ||
| I think we will. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Take care, my friend. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| There you have it, folks. | ||
| There is the unraveling of Kent. | ||
| When we come back, we're going to be in open lines throughout the remainder of this night. | ||
| If you want to react to what you've heard, fine. | ||
| If you want to react to us, oh, by the way, I do have something on Area 51, reference an early caller in the show, and I'll get that on. | ||
| And we'll talk about anything else you like. | ||
| So that's it. | ||
| You heard it here from the high desert. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, baby. | |
| Don't leave me this way. | ||
| I can't survive. | ||
| I can't say goodbye without your love. | ||
| Oh, baby. | ||
| Don't leave me. | ||
| Well, how about that? | ||
| During the break, my phone rang. | ||
| There was a message on my machine which said, I think you know who this is, and then gave me a phone number. | ||
| And yes, I thought I recognized that voice. | ||
| And indeed, it is that man that we thought we knew as Kent. | ||
| And here is that man we thought we knew as Kent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
For lack of a better name. | |
| Because I don't have one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I can't give it to you. | |
| All right, but obviously Kent was not your real name. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No. | ||
| Just some poor dumbworking schmuck's name. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Some dumbworking schmuck's name. | ||
| The one that you described as Kent, the story that you wove here on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| All right. | ||
| Well, what do you want to say about it all? | ||
| I mean, I was hoping you would call in and say something after all of this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I couldn't. | |
| First of all, I'd like to say to your listening audience, and to you, and to Richard Hoagland, you can't handle the truth. | ||
| If you knew the truth, you would... | ||
| Sure. | ||
| The hair would stand up on the back of your neck. | ||
| Well, lies stand it up, too. | ||
| Your form has you intentionally chose to call here and weave a completely false story. | ||
| Why? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have my orders just like everybody else does in the world of soldiering. | |
| And what I told Richard was the exact truth, I am tired of the games. | ||
| You did say the whole art. | ||
| I am tired of the whole weaving game. | ||
| So you really did say that to him? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I did. | |
| And you admitted that you were part of, he says, of an agency and a disinformation campaign, and that is the game you're saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, but there's a bigger picture, and I think some of your listeners may know what some of that bigger picture is. | |
| Well, try us. | ||
| Some listeners may know. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| What is it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
If the truth really got out, the Christian fabric of our nation would be unraveled. | |
| The beliefs of the Bible would be totally everything. | ||
| I've always embraced that possibility. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The human mind cannot take such change. | |
| And the organization, the organization that is involved with me, that runs me and my team is a very powerful one. | ||
| And they have unlimited resources. | ||
| And as far as anybody is concerned out there in our Bell's world, the truth will be known. | ||
| not in your lifetime, not in our lifetimes. | ||
| And I can tell you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you are about to expose to the world, I do want to say this, though. | ||
| My superiors were very surprised. | ||
| They were very surprised that you caught on so fast. | ||
| The timeline didn't work out very well. | ||
| I can tell you that. | ||
| And they were very disappointed in that. | ||
| So you and Richard were very, very, very, very clever. | ||
| They were his words. | ||
| Boy, they were clever, weren't they? | ||
| And he may do some speech reversals on this. | ||
| And I listened to some of them reverse speech. | ||
| And I was boggled myself. | ||
| In other words, you were boggled that it nailed you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was boggled that it nailed me right to the wall. | |
| I take it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm pretty professional at what I do. | |
| Well, I admit this. | ||
| The story you told on the air during, I don't know, what was it, 45 minutes total or something, I thought was very credibly told, very credibly told, and to be so credibly told must have been carefully rehearsed and planned. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You have to know that me and my team, my team and I, for those English people out there, are very trained professionals. | |
| And we do this for a living. | ||
| And it's in the American people's best interest that we do this. | ||
| Trust me when I say that. | ||
| But your forum will not allow us to do that. |
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