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April 22, 1998 - Art Bell

01:26:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland, David Oates - Reverse Speech - The Kent Interview

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	I can't feel a thing I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good morning from the high desert, I'm R. Kell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You may recall, at the end of last week, we had a call from a man who represented himself
	as Chet.
	Actually, he gave us a last name at that time, which we didn't air, Kent.
	Kent wove a tale, a story, a very shocking story, of his employment at JPL, NASA.
	He claimed that he saw, by accident, Some very clear and sharp photographs of the Cydonia region of Mars.
	Photographs that we could only dream about having.
	Very, very clear photographs showing unambiguous artifacts, buildings, that sort of thing.
	The story then continued that he was called by his supervisor and later that day, in the early afternoon, fired, canned, And so then we went to work on a tent.
	First, Linda Moulton Howe spoke with him for about two hours on the phone.
	Then Richard Hoagland began a communication with him.
	At that time, both Linda, who said at that time she thought it was solid as a rock, and Richard Hoagland said 98%, we believe the story.
	So we then endeavored to get documentation.
	from Kent regarding his employment at JPL, trying to verify various aspects of his story.
	What you are about to hear is the result of an investigation into his story and into Kent.
	This involves the use of reverse speech.
	And I am sure the people at NASA will be gratified to hear that what was done to them after they appeared on this program is now going to be doing What could be more appropriate for Mother's Day?
	namely so in a moment uh... richard seahogland
	and david john oaks the investigation into
	the beijing free play radio what could be more appropriate for mother's day that number
	again one eight hundred four five eight seven one three four
	alaska hawaii and canada call area code nine one eight 6870404
	Or, on the internet, it's www.americangoldrose.com.
	Alright, now, the alleged case of Kent.
	We'll call it the case of Kent.
	As I said, Kent was first interviewed by me on the air.
	All of you heard that.
	I presume you heard it.
	Then there was a follow-up conversation with Linda Moulton Howe that lasted about two hours, and then a sort of ongoing sporadic communication with Richard Hoagland in New Mexico.
	And we kind of went silent on the air about the whole Kent thing until we figured out what was going on, and tonight you're going to hear what's going on.
	Richard, welcome to the show.
	Good evening, Art.
	Hi there.
	Well, it is an interesting set of developments.
	So where do you want me to begin?
	Well, I think perhaps you should tell us what you know in the first person.
	In other words, following the interview that I did on the air, the audience would not be aware of the communication and the concerns and what Kent said, what he would call you and that sort of thing.
	So let's fill them in on what they don't know.
	Well, obviously, when you sent me the facts from Ken and did the interview, I was very interested for obvious reasons.
	Sure.
	This, in fact, was taking place.
	If we had a bona fide leak, someone who had seen something that was genuine and who was concerned for his safety after the events that transcribed during the interview, anyone would be concerned.
	At both the human level and also the professional level.
	So, the evening of the interview, I placed a call to the motel where he was staying.
	Actually, it goes back even further than that.
	I sent you the facts.
	You read the facts and said you really ought to go ahead and do this interview.
	I was asking you what you thought of the facts yourself.
	Yeah, it appeared to be pretty genuine.
	It had subtleties to it that made it appear to be genuine.
	Indeed.
	It turns out that was part of a larger effort here, but we'll get into that.
	So after you went ahead and put him on the air and did the interview, I called him at the motel where he was, which was Ohio at that time.
	That's right.
	And we probably talked for about 30 minutes.
	Linda had interviewed him or talked to him.
	In the previous two hours, it took me a long time to get through because he was on the phone with her.
	Right.
	And the poor gal up to death, who in the world was calling from all over the country to this poor guy in this motel room?
	She had never heard of the Art Bell Show, by the way, I must say.
	She was all right.
	Anyway, during that conversation, a couple of things developed.
	One is, he appeared to be genuinely concerned for his safety.
	He appeared to be adamant about going to ground, meaning getting lost, going into hiding.
	And I urged exactly the opposite.
	I urged him to, you know, go to Washington, to talk to people at the major media that we know.
	Washington Post, Nightline, whatever.
	Exactly.
	And I had, you know, obvious connections.
	I like to set that up with one phone call.
	He agreed in our conversation to stay in touch.
	He seemed very surprised.
	That I called him.
	In fact, he didn't seem to know who I was at the initial conversation, which I felt was a plus.
	He did say he had been to a library after this incident, when he got to Ohio, and that he had looked up The Face on Mars, which was a book written some years ago by an anthropologist, Randolpho Pozos, which was a description of our first investigation of SRI.
	And he then connected my name With, you know, obviously the investigation in that document.
	But other than that recognition, and the idea that I would call him in the middle of the night in a hotel room, it seemed perfectly copacetic.
	It seemed perfectly the way someone who was concerned for things that they'd gotten in way over their head about would be responding.
	We left it that he would call me, and he hung up.
	Twenty-four hours later, roughly midnight the next night, this was what, Friday night you did the interview?
	Yes.
	Saturday night, about midnight, the phone rang and it's Kent.
	And he's much calmer.
	He said he'd had time to think about things, that he was trying to arrange to get documents to me from his Wells Fargo friend who had put him in touch with you, and that he had left in such a hurry he hadn't taken anything with him, and that he was going to try to have his friend go in and He was not at this point giving me, or apparently you, his correct name.
	that is important what we wanted was to pay stubs and uh...
	and i do you think we're going to have a different
	he was not at this point giving up
	or apparently you his correct name and this kind of bothered me even there which is why i was
	holding up at two percent
	because if you want to go public it's like being a little bit pregnant
	whether go public or you don't go public but you can't cut halfway go public
	Oh yeah, and it does not much good for somebody to give a pseudonym and go public with that.
	That protects nothing.
	Because then there's no way to verify that their claim is what they say it is.
	That's right.
	This was bothering me.
	He did, by the way, I guess the audience would be lost here, he has now, you should know, admitted That was not his real name, correct?
	That's correct.
	Alright, continue.
	Yeah, he gave us Kent Smith, which turned out not to be accurate.
	We had a number of people in parallel between these phone calls.
	I had a number of people.
	I had a friend of mine in Hawaii who has some experience in forensic investigation.
	And a colleague called from MSNBC who I think contacted you first.
	Yes.
	Who launched their own investigation.
	The people at MSNBC were very, very helpful.
	And I won't use his name because he may want to write this under his own name.
	The point is we had a number of different people investigating from a number of different directions.
	Calling JPL, calling people in the personnel department, calling subcontractors, looking through the website.
	The bottom line was we could turn up nothing on a Kent Smith.
	More interesting, my friend in Hawaii turned up, by going through the mailing departments and the supervisors in charge of couriers and all that, that there was no documentation sent either to the UN To Langley or to NASA headquarters on the 14th.
	Certainly not photographs and certainly not by FedEx.
	So that part of his story, apart from his identity, did not apparently check out.
	And because my friend's pretty good and was able to reach several different levels and talk to people who were just there doing their jobs, it seemed increasingly unlikely that there had been some kind of curtain or screen dropped around this whole thing.
	And it became more likely that there were major problems with Kent's story.
	In the meantime, I think it was Monday night that he called, and he was in a really desperate panic.
	In fact, he was in such a panic that I know you talked to him, and you can confirm that he sounded really on the edge, right?
	Yeah, I got a call from him about 30 seconds before I went on the air, and he was just Outright panic.
	There's no other word for it.
	I mean, he was in an outright panic.
	And my feeling was, you know, have you ever been in a position where you thought he was going to be killed?
	Exactly.
	That's what he communicated very strongly.
	That's right.
	All right.
	So at that point... And he said at that point, he said, I'm not going to go to Washington.
	I'm not going to see anybody.
	I've just got to hide.
	I've got to get lost.
	You know, they're going to get me.
	They're going to get me.
	And he went on to describe the activities of The Defense Intelligence Agency at JPL.
	Now this rang a kind of a bell in my alarm system, because he had moved from dumb courier who sees photographs he's not supposed to see, to someone who now was telling me that there was a lot going on at JPL, there was military influence, people were being watched, And that there were other missions involved besides Mars Surveyor.
	As a matter of fact, he was so afraid for his life, we should tell the audience, that you said, look, stay off the phones, without notice, show up at my home.
	I was going to get to that.
	We will protect you.
	I offered him my hospitality.
	I said, I hope you're not allergic to cats, because I've got three.
	Well, I was doing anything to try to get him to come back down to the human level, because this guy sounded on the edge of forever.
	He really sounded like somebody who's poised to jump off a bridge.
	I agree.
	And that kind of caught him up.
	And he said, he said, you're really serious about this?
	I said, absolutely.
	I had Nick and Dana here.
	And I said, you show up.
	Don't tell me when, what flight, whatever, or what bus.
	I said, you show up and call me and we'll have you picked up.
	I said, you will be absolutely safe here.
	Nobody.
	He's going to pull anything if you're here.
	Nobody.
	Right.
	And I adamantly believe that.
	And he more or less took you up on that offer and said he would do that, right?
	He said he would seriously consider it.
	And that's how we left it.
	It was such a foreign thought to him.
	And it really kind of brought him down to where he became more coherent.
	And obviously I was sincere.
	Now, as you know, I'm going to San Diego at the end of the week.
	I'm going to do, you know, one of the chat clubs with David.
	Yes.
	In San Diego.
	So we had a tight time window here because I had to be here so he would arrive in time and I was thinking of actually taking him to San Diego if that became necessary.
	To continue the protection.
	To continue the protection and, you know, just being visible.
	My whole thesis is that this stuff can only How close are we getting to the bottom of the hour?
	As soon as you shine a flashlight, the cockroaches scurry and run under the bed.
	So in the last 24 hours I've been waiting for a call that he was here.
	Tonight he called.
	And in the interim, several of the developments took place.
	How close are we getting to the bottom of the hour?
	We've got about six minutes, well five minutes or so.
	One of the developments was David Oates was on vacation and traveling around the country
	And I made a copy of the interview on Friday night.
	And I was not able to send it to him until he arrived back on Monday.
	So it was there Tuesday morning.
	Today is Wednesday.
	Tuesday morning, David got his copy of the tape.
	And immediately proceeded to start to analyze it.
	In the interim, we had these other people doing due diligence, including my friend Tammy Taylor at UPN.
	Who had offered to physically go to Kent's friend and pick up the documentation.
	His W-2s, his payroll slips, all that.
	I became increasingly concerned when weird things kept happening.
	His friend wouldn't call him, he wouldn't show up, he couldn't get down to the studio.
	In other words, more and more excuses for doing the obvious to keep this person safe began turning up.
	So by the time Kent called tonight, I not only was suspicious for a variety of, shall we say, gumshoe reasons, good, plain investigative technique, but I also had, as an ace in the hole, a preliminary overview of a transcript that David Oates had prepared at great cost to time and effort and all that, because he just got back from this trip.
	Yeah, doing reversals on a 30- or 45-minute interview with short notices is very, very tough.
	It's incredibly time-consuming and intensive, and David really deserves a gold star for coming through because, frankly, if I had not had David Oates' reversals to confront our friend Kent with, we would still be in limbo and not know whether this was real or some big shaggy dog story.
	But the fact of the matter is that when he called me tonight, he sounded much more coherent.
	He said, I've thought it over.
	He said, I'm going to come.
	He said, I'll be arriving sometime on Thursday.
	Oh, did he?
	Now, so you hadn't told me this.
	He said he was going to be on his way to you?
	He said he was on his way.
	And what I did was, knowing what David had already given me, I thought, OK, now we'll start.
	We'll basically reverse the game.
	And I said, well, I'm not going to be here.
	I'm going to be in San Diego.
	There was a long pause, okay?
	And then he said, well, he says, I've got the documents, you know, my Wells Fargo friend that I was telling you about, well, he didn't really work for Wells Fargo.
	He actually was JPL Security.
	He told me this.
	JPL Security?
	Yeah, that's what he claimed.
	Now remember, we have to put everything Kent has said in brackets.
	This is merely his story.
	Now, that's really interesting.
	Why would he even begin to trust somebody from JPL Security?
	If he had just been canned from JPL for seeing photographs he shouldn't have seen, you would think JPL Security would be the last person that he would trust.
	Well, remember the other night how I told you when his friend was supposed to fax us the documents, and they didn't get faxed?
	And he had gone back to his apartment with Kent somewhere in New England.
	Yes.
	This guy is wandering around Los Angeles with his documents.
	Now, this is a pretty fancy thing they're doing, folks, because I asked Richard, he got a call from Kent, who was on the run, and you've got caller ID there, and I asked you at the time, you may recall, Richard, what did the caller ID say?
	And you said it showed a New England area code.
	That meant Kent had gone from Ohio To New England.
	Well, actually, my caller ID did not correspond to New England, okay?
	Well, you told me that.
	No, I think you're being misunderstood.
	No, I asked you specifically about caller ID, Richard.
	I said you got caller ID right.
	No, he gave me an area code, alright?
	The reason I know he was there is he gave me an area code to call him back in the phone booth.
	Oh, I understand.
	Oh, I see.
	So it did not show up on your caller ID?
	No, but he actually eventually gave me that phone booth to call.
	Okay, so you actually returned a call to that area code.
	Okay, well that's just as good then.
	So he fled from Ohio to New England.
	We'll hold it right there, and we'll let the rest of this story unwind.
	And hold on, folks, because David Oates is coming up with the reversals that clinched it all.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AF.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Good morning, everybody.
	We've got Richard C. Hoagland and David Oates, and the subject is going to be the Kent interview.
	The alleged JPL employee.
	We've got a lot to do tonight, and I would like to offer Kent the opportunity.
	Kent, you have my number.
	If you want to get on the air and defend yourself, if you feel you can even do that, call that number now.
	Give my wife a number to call you back, and I'll get you on the air.
	And we'll have a real roundhouse.
	Because wait till you hear what's coming up.
	Am I ready yet to tell you what this is?
	Nope.
	Good morning, everybody.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	All right.
	All I have to say is we had better find out who Cartman's father is tonight on South Park, which is recorded.
	Well, I'm going to go find the people who do that show and ring their necks personally.
	Some of you will understand that comment, others will not.
	Back now to Richard C. Hoagland, and the saga continues.
	Richard?
	Yeah, see, everyone has to understand, the reason you and I were, shall we say, somewhat predisposed to believe that Kent was telling us a version, a close version of the truth, Is there is other evidence being developed behind the scenes, which points to the fact that JPL is not giving us the full picture on these pictures?
	Well, of course, we had David Oates on a long time ago now, and reversed two NASA employees who came on my program.
	So tonight, I'm sure they're going to be very gratified to hear the tables turn.
	Well, they may or may not be, because it's that old phrase, birds of a feather, flock, etc.
	The information I'm alluding to is not reverse speech.
	It has to do with some new information developed and communicated to me just in the last half hour, from the time we decided to do this, from Tom Van Flandern.
	Oh, really?
	Yes.
	Everybody should know, the next and third in this series of photographs of the Sedona area will be imaged this coming Friday in the morning.
	so friday will be another big yes about mid-morning uh... pacific time they're going to
	reveal or release the third strip pictures
	this picture supposed to be across the fort yet out across the city and across that
	south pyramid so it should be a pretty interesting morning Considered to be, I think, the greatest opportunity to prove artificiality, right?
	With regard to that, but anyway, back to Kent.
	Well, before I get to Kent, what Tom is working on, and there's a very quiet set of briefings that are going to be continuing now tomorrow and the next day in Washington, is information indicating good hard forensic evidence Possibly leading to proof that the raw picture we saw two weeks ago.
	Yes was not a raw picture All right, I'm talking hard science and I can't say anymore right now, but it's pretty damn good evidence I've seen it my evaluation is it really could be a Smoking gun that we're not dealing with raw data now.
	It's against that backdrop of I'm having these continuing conversations with Ken, right?
	yes because i'm telling you about what we're going to talk about it but we
	didn't get a good look at the picture article
	and i think it's a good idea i have a couple of people who are
	but i think that i think i think i think that i think and then he started telling me about his brother in the
	documents and and the fact that he is well fargo friend
	turned out to be a gpl security friend and that the reason they had come down on him ever the
	truth that i told you about that
	supposedly greeted him back at his apartment every tried to
	access these documents.
	Yes.
	He said, well, they're really after him because he took some pages out of a log.
	And I said, wait a minute, Ken.
	I said, just hold it there.
	I said, this is a scam.
	I said, this is an inside job.
	You're being put up to this.
	You're not a totally willing participant, but This is a number to basically attack Bell's credibility and mine.
	Well, there was this stunned silence in the phone booth.
	It was like I'd thrown a hand grenade into the small, confined space of the phone booth.
	And then Kent said, after a very long pause, how did you know?
	And I said, because, I said, we reversed you.
	And he said, oh, and I can't use what he said.
	Oh shoot?
	It was a little stronger.
	And then he said, he started telling me, he completely changed, he said, you know, he said, I've got to tell you, you know, I work for, and he named an agency that he ostensibly worked for, and he said this is part of the disinformation campaign, and it is targeted at Bell, alright?
	Well that's silly.
	And he said, we didn't think you'd catch on this quickly.
	He said, how did you do it?
	I said, it's called science.
	And he says, look, you're a nice guy.
	He says, you know, you're probably wondering why I'm only up to this.
	He said, because when you invited me to your house, he said, I realized that some people could get hurt with this.
	I see.
	That's exactly what he said.
	I said, Kent, actually at this point he'd given me his, quote, real name.
	Yes.
	Which we've agreed we're not going to use on the air tonight because... No, it was a liar twice a liar.
	Maybe he's picked some other poor slob out of the phone book.
	We don't want people to, you know, go after him.
	Um, you know, I said, look, I said, we're really all on the same side here.
	You know, there's a constitution.
	Does anybody above you, behind you, in back of you, putting you up to this, understand That all we're after is the truth.
	And then that's when he said, well, he said, my phone card's running out.
	Can you call me back?
	And he gave me the number of the phone booth he was in.
	And?
	He hung up.
	I dialed him back within three seconds and the line was busy.
	It was busy for a minute and 37 seconds.
	And then when it rang, it rang through and he wasn't there.
	So obviously he was calling his superiors and then he obviously split.
	And I don't think we're going to hear from Kent.
	Well, as I said, he's got my private number, as you well know, and if he wants to call right now, you and I both know damn well he's listening to this.
	If he has any defense for what's coming up and what's been said already, then he should be calling my private number and giving me a number where I can call him back and get him on the air, but I doubt he's going to do it.
	Well, the thing that's important to remember here is that the way we caught him was a combination of good old-fashioned detective work, things that did not add up, And again, I've got to say that MSNBC was very, very hopeful in that regard.
	They checked out... That was my friend in Hawaii, who I will not mention, because I think he wants to remain, you know, kind of anonymous.
	Sure.
	But the real gem here, the cracked it, and I cannot say enough for David Oates, you know, everyone looks at reverse speech in a very jaundiced way.
	You and I have had our differences of opinion as to the ultimate validity and what does it mean and all that.
	In this case, by simply doing a pattern match.
	In other words, you don't have to interpret what the reverse speech is saying.
	You simply have to lay it side by side to other examples of reversals, and it was the fingerprint pattern match that caught Kent in the act.
	And with that, I think we should probably go to David.
	Well, we will in a second.
	You know, if the intent of this was disinformation to destroy my credibility, That's a pretty pathetic goal, because Richard, I'll put anything on the air.
	You know that.
	That's me.
	I'm an open forum, and I'll put anything on the air.
	And I do.
	And when I put it on the air in the first place, I didn't warranty it to be the truth.
	Simply, his story.
	So if he was a disinformation agent, part of a government agency, trying to discredit me, you know, it's like, ridiculous.
	It's just ridiculous.
	Nothing there is going to discredit me.
	I will continue to put interesting stories on the air without warranting to anybody that it's absolutely the truth unless I know it to be.
	I think one of the problems is that there are people in NASA, and remember I've always separated the small group of what I call the rogue element from the larger body of the honest folks that really believe in the same things that we believe in.
	That rogue element, I think, is so... Pissed off?
	No prejudice in their analysis of what it is that we do and other guests you have on that talk about similar investigations.
	Pissed off.
	Well, no, no.
	Where I'm going is they do not give us credit for appropriate scientific or investigative procedures.
	Well, they tried to set us up.
	I think what they thought would happen is that you and I would buy this hook, line, and sinker.
	We would extol it from the rooftops.
	We would yell, Hosanna, Hosanna, we've got them.
	And then they would jump out from behind the bushes and yell, boo, gotcha!
	They thought that that's what we would do?
	I think that's what the plan was.
	Well, then they don't listen to my program, because I don't do that.
	And they have not followed Enterprise very carefully either.
	But again, I want to go back to David.
	Without David's forensic tool, and last September when David and I were on stage in Pasadena, a lot of people asked me, a lot of people asked him separately, Why are you guys getting together?
	What can you possibly have in common?
	And what we have in common is we're both at the cutting edge of some very controversial research, which circumstances have now brought together.
	And the tool that reverse speech turns out to be, regardless of the interpretive value, merely as a forensic fingerprint tool, in this case, nailed Kent to the wall.
	Well, again, I find it interesting.
	In other words, you really do conclude, and I almost hate to get David on the air before the top of the hour, but you do conclude that this was an attempt to destroy my or your credibility, or both?
	Well, I think it's both.
	There's hard data, there's claims about it, there's, as I said tonight, the new forensics that Dr. Van Flandern is pursuing.
	In the midst of all that, if you're sitting out in America, coast to coast, and you're just listening to the radio, it's hard to know what to believe.
	Sure.
	The old idea that if you throw enough spaghetti on the wall, some of it will stick, I think more than destroy, it was an effort to distract.
	And the real essence of this mission is what's on those images.
	And there's astonishingly powerful, confirmatory evidence of extraterrestrial ruins tonight on Mars that are up on the website.
	It can be reached through your website or going directly to Enterprise.
	And if people don't lose focus and they keep looking at those images and the new analyses, and we're going to put some very important things up there in the next few days, that's where we should be following the trail.
	This political hanky-panky, this kind of grown-up men playing kid games in a sandbox, Running around the country on phone cards, calling us anonymously from various phone booths in the middle of the night.
	You know, this had to be a pretty well laid out plan on somebody's part.
	I mean, here was this guy hopping all over geography, making calls and trying to convince Linda Howe and yourself and myself that he's legit.
	So this had to be a pretty complicated disinformation plan But again, I say, if they were coming after me, they're off their rockers.
	They must be awfully angry at some of what we have done to do this.
	Well, he did say tonight, flat out, he said, you're getting really close.
	And the reason I think we should take that seriously is, as David is going to show you, this individual can't ...was not the outsider, the poor, dumb courier brought in for a kind of a gopher job, you know, ten months ago.
	But from the pattern of the reversals, he is as part of the in-crowd in this rogue group as any of the other people that we have reversed or analyzed.
	And that's the fingerprint that gave him away, which puts... in other words, we need to put into context what he said, and the other things he revealed, because again, Some of it could be disinformation, but the reversals show a pattern which is not disinformation, and that's how he got caught.
	Well, yes.
	You know, once somebody has lied, I'm hesitant to believe anything at all they're going to say.
	and i would like to offer one more time just just just in case i mean we all
	know and sitting out there probably with a nervous tick
	listening every word of this
	anticipating reversals that are about to come up and uh... can you have any
	possible defense or whatsoever
	anything that you would like to get off your disinformational chest
	uh... you've got my number uh... call it uh... from a phone booth or whatever give uh...
	give me a number and uh... will call and get you on the air
	but you don't expect him to uh... take pick me up on that offer to you
	Well, there were two things.
	He asked me to call him back, which I did, and he had split.
	So he abrogated the agreement that he would talk to me further, because I wanted to go through, point by point, some of these reversals to basically ask him, what was on your mind when you were saying these things?
	Number two, he did not want me to do tonight what we're doing now.
	He wanted me to tell you off the air That he had owned up, that he had confessed, that we had caught him.
	No, I don't do things off the air.
	He did not want me to do it on the air.
	No, see, that's the whole thing.
	I don't do that kind of thing off the air and then come on the air and tell the audience a story.
	I let it all hang out here on the air.
	Whichever way it goes, I always have.
	That's my way, and that's what I guess somebody out there simply doesn't understand.
	I don't care what goes on the air.
	As long as it's interesting, as long as it pursues ultimately the truth, I don't care.
	I don't care.
	And I'd just as soon have him on here trying to defend himself to see if there's any possible substance or reason he would like to offer up for what he did.
	And if the entire goal was to get to me, it was sure a poor attempt.
	If it was to get to you, it was a poor attempt.
	Well, you know how process-oriented I am, sometimes to the point of pain.
	you.
	I certainly am not.
	Anybody says allowing it on the air is one thing, believing it and adding weight to it
	by saying I believe it is another.
	Well, you know how process oriented I am, sometimes to the point of pain.
	And what I find heartening about this whole process is we've been able to lay out for
	the country, for your audience, the beginning of the story, the middle of the story, and
	now I don't think this is the end of the story.
	It may not be.
	But I think we're getting close to the end.
	Because if this was not just a random prank, and I don't think that this can be classified that way.
	Oh no.
	The reversals do not support that.
	Alright.
	Richard, I want you to hold on.
	And when we come back, we will do those reversals.
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	That's an awful lot of peace of mind for a very little amount of money.
	The number is 888-82-AUDIT.
	Now, you can call that number right now, even here in the middle of the night.
	1-888-82-A-U-D-I-T.
	Alright.
	When we get back, we will do the reversals that we've been talking about on Chats.
	Should be very, very interesting with David John Oates.
	And continue with Richard Hoagland.
	And one more time, Ken, if you're out there, you have my private number.
	Call it, and I'd be glad to put you on the air.
	We'll be right back.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Well, the saga of Kent continues.
	on the wild card every approach seven oh two
	seven two seven one two nine five that's very approach seven oh two
	seven two seven twelve ninety-five
	this is close to close to him without bell
	it is good morning everybody well the saga of kent continues can't be
	alleged jp l employees who claimed he was fired after viewing photographs
	and the long saga of uh... discussions between kent minimal how
	and uh...
	richard hoagland over the last well uh... going on several uh... days now
	and...
	And tonight we turn the table a little bit.
	We did indeed reverse a couple of NASA fellows who appeared on the show.
	And tonight, and in moments, you're going to hear reversals of Kent, the man who claimed to be a JPL employee, uh, but according to Richard, um, is more probably a disinformation agent, uh, trying to discredit me or Richard or both.
	Now, I tend to believe things that I can prove that I have proven to myself, and I have proven to myself that the Jacobs Ultra Team Ignition System is everything it claims to be.
	And check out their web page at www.jacobselectronics.com.
	All right, Richard C. Hoagland, are you there?
	I'm here.
	All right, that's one.
	Let's go to this line and say, David John Oates, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	All right, thanks for being patient.
	We had to set that up properly, David.
	Oh, that's quite okay.
	In fact, it was very interesting for me to hear the whole story.
	As usual, Richard kept me in the dark about everything.
	I am just stunned that what I found correlated with the suspicions that Richard were already having without my knowledge at all, and this is about the third or fourth time Richard's done this to me now.
	Now, the audience ought to know that you went into this project more or less hoping to confirm that Kent was telling the truth.
	Is that correct?
	I really, as you well know, I really had absolutely no preconceived notions on this at all.
	I wanted it to be true.
	That's what I mean.
	Right.
	Like everyone else, I wanted it to be true.
	It sounded amusing when David called me this afternoon.
	He sounded like death warmed over.
	I mean, you know, he's usually kind of up, and he was like, well, and he then told me a few things, and I said, David, why are you so down?
	He says, aren't you?
	And I said, no, I want to know the truth.
	This is dynamite, because the pattern is what is important.
	Right.
	Well, I'm always hesitant relaying news that I think people will find disappointing, and what I was finding on the Kent reversal was not gelling with his story at all, and I was very hesitant calling Richard, and I And so I finally did.
	Now, Richard, of course, had this information earlier in the day, confronted Kent with it, not playing him reversals, but telling him what he knew, and Kent fell apart and confessed, virtually confessed on the phone, right, Richard?
	Yep.
	All right, let's get to the reversals.
	What is it that was so revealing in the reversals?
	Okay, well, the best way to do that is to play them and discuss them one by one.
	All right, fire away.
	That is what we'll do.
	I picked up the tape about 10 minutes into the interview.
	I was on a time crunch.
	I'd just come back from vacation and I really went straight to the heart of the matter.
	So this is the first forward transcript I picked up.
	Put the cap on to the Federal Express Cylinder.
	Seal it.
	take it down to the lady where the federal express machine is and then she fills out the labels puts
	them on there and puts them into the outbound box for federal express. Sure. Okay she's talking about
	he's uh talking about the uh the uh cylinder which the photos were in and that's right right okay
	now the third reversal it's not so much what it told me it was as you probably know reversals are
	generally complementary By complementary I mean they relate to the forward dialogue.
	They either confirm or deny what the man is saying forward.
	Now the first thing I know about Ken reversals is that the reversal itself was not totally related to what he was saying forward.
	It was more of a commentary of thoughts that he was thinking at the time.
	The first one says, we deal with the snide bigot.
	You deal with a snide bigot.
	You hear that?
	Yeah, very clearly.
	We deal with a snide bigot, sure.
	And we'll do it again.
	You deal with a snide bigot.
	What do you say that means?
	Well, when I first heard, I was stunned.
	It wasn't until I got to the end of the transcript that I theorized that he was actually... My first thought was, there is someone else involved in this.
	He has an ulterior motive and an ulterior agenda.
	Someone who he thinks is snide.
	Probably me.
	Sorry?
	Probably me.
	That's exactly what I came to the conclusion of when I got to the end of the transcript and actually heard your name mentioned in this verse.
	Oh, really?
	No kidding.
	Well, I've made lots of enemies.
	I make lots of enemies.
	All right.
	Yeah, well, and clearly... Let me start again.
	David?
	Yes.
	Art?
	Yes.
	The thing this very first reversal revealed is that Kent was not the dupe, the victim, the guy who just tripped over something, but was much more conscious and cunning and planning than anybody in his position telling that story should be.
	Alright, let me, if you wouldn't mind David, I want to hear that one more time in simple, I really prefer the, you're always slowing it down for me, I want to hear it Reverse at normal speed, if you would.
	Okay, here it comes now.
	We deal with a snide bigot.
	Okay?
	That's quite clear.
	We deal with a snide bigot.
	Alright, got it.
	We'll do it again.
	We deal with a snide bigot.
	Yeah, very clear.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	It's a lie.
	Clever.
	Right.
	Yeah, exactly correct.
	And it immediately raised a question in my mind, because it was clearly another agenda.
	Uh, it wasn't related to what he was saying.
	Right.
	It wasn't.
	That always raises warning bells in my mind when I see that type of thing.
	Gotcha.
	So then we moved on to the next reversal.
	Um, and here's the forward dialogue here.
	She had said, okay, that the courier would bring them by.
	And, um, so then I didn't have much to do until Federal Express got there.
	Uh, so he was just talking about the courier was going to bring him more, um, I hear a reversal here that says, they were smart.
	They were smart.
	Okay?
	They were smart, very clear.
	Do it again.
	They were smart.
	And the clarity of the verses also struck me as well.
	I take great note when I hear very clear reversals.
	Yes, that's very clear, but again, they were smart.
	Yep.
	What does that mean?
	Once again, it's not related to the forward dialogue.
	He's clearly talking about someone else.
	You put that with the first reversal we do with the snide bigot.
	They were smart.
	I started to see an ulterior motive here.
	A plan running out.
	They were smart in setting up this entire scenario is how I came to the conclusion as I did more and more reversals.
	Yes.
	He is saying one thing.
	But he's thinking something totally different.
	Right, right, right.
	And this is not... And that right there is a major clue, this is not what it appears to be.
	And the first thing that hit me, Richard, you know, this is not normal for reverse speech.
	You normally have these direct, complementary relationships.
	As you know, I've done these on your program many, many times, Art, and that's the first thing that convinced me about reverse speech back in the early days, was this direct, complementary relationship.
	But when you see these other agendas running, And you start to ask some questions, and then I got to this next third reversal here, and I was almost ready to ring Richard on this one.
	I don't think I rang until I got down to the sixth reversal, but this one I'm about to play raised many warning bells in my mind, and here we go.
	Sitting there drinking some hot chocolate there when the maintenance deck guy walked in.
	We've always seen each other in halls and whatever, you know, we've always give the guy a greeting of the day, you know, and everything.
	Okay, now we've got two reversals here.
	The first one says, see a war, you're wanting it.
	See a war, you're wanting it.
	Okay?
	Yeah, see a war, you're wanting it.
	Very clear.
	Do it again.
	See a war, you're wanting it.
	And then he says, had to bring in a new guy.
	Now the in's very quick, so probably best to hear, had to bring in, sorry, had to bring a new guy.
	Yes, if I could use God.
	And let's do it again.
	Yes, if I could use God.
	Guy or God, it almost sounded like.
	Let's do it a little bit slower.
	Yes, if I could use God.
	It could be Guy, G-U-I-D-E.
	It could be.
	Yeah, or one with God.
	Sorry?
	It sounds like God to me.
	That's what I said, too.
	Well, I wasn't going to say that.
	Come on, David, be courageous.
	I'm just presenting these very conservatively, Richard.
	Um, okay.
	Can you play that one again, please?
	Okay, here it is.
	I think it's God, quite frankly.
	I hear a D myself.
	And that fits in with... Wow.
	Okay, now that rung warning bells in my mind.
	I merely saw a pattern back to other NASA reversals, where I saw a reversal on Michael May on the bat, a new father in the light.
	Reversal on, um...
	On some Mars commentators when the rover was on the planet about who will meet God.
	And I got, bang, this spiritual connection that connected me back to other NASA reversals.
	And by the time I got this third reversal, there was a defter trend running.
	We deal with the Snow Bigots, they were smart.
	See a war, you're wanting it.
	Had to bring a new God.
	A guy or whatever it was.
	Clearly, this is not some simple courier.
	This is someone who is thinking and planning and strategizing a very carefully laid out scenario.
	And all my warning bells are ringing at this stage.
	My stomach was dropping down to my boots.
	And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I've got to call Richard.
	And bearing in mind, I've been on vacation for two weeks.
	I've been completely out of the loop.
	I've no idea what's been going on.
	I had, up until I heard Richard on the program tonight, I had no idea of this other investigation that he was running.
	Oh, there's been a whole lot going on in the background, believe me.
	Anyway, proceed.
	And once again, I'm pleased I did not know, because here we've got completely independent, corroborative information.
	Okay, so here we go.
	We continue it up.
	He's picking up the picture.
	So I bent over to pick up that pitcher.
	I set it down on the table and I had to unroll that so I could put that pitcher back in there.
	Okay, now this is a left field.
	They handle a weapon.
	They handle a weapon.
	And again.
	They handle a weapon.
	You got that?
	No.
	They handle clear.
	The word itself, weapon, I can't say that I hear clearly.
	Okay, let's do that at slow speed.
	They handle business.
	They handle business.
	Do you hear weapon, Richard?
	No, they handle something.
	I don't think it's weapon.
	Well, that's fine.
	Well, that will deal with they handle.
	It is, once again, they were smart, they handled.
	This is other people involved.
	We have Yeah, constant references to they.
	Correct.
	I hate to use the word conspiracy, but that is what these reversals deal with.
	We deal with they were smart, they handle a weapon, see a war.
	This is not a courier who is telling a story about pictures.
	Right.
	Alright, now, the next reversal I want to Listeners out there to hear this, anyone who knows what this word means, I would love to know, this is, you may remember another program I've done with you Art, I've found references that I didn't know what they meant, like we found rubber duck on Mike Tyson that someone called him punched drunk, and I think that this is reference to some group of some description, I think Richard was looking up, what were you looking for Richard on this one?
	Well, it appears to be a title or something.
	Yeah.
	Like Califf, except it's not Califf.
	You'll hear it in the reversal.
	Now listen carefully out there and fax if you know what this group is referring to.
	He's describing the picture for us.
	You've got the eyebrows there, and then you've got two eye sockets there, you've got the nose, you've got the two holes there where the nostrils go, and then you've got the mouth.
	And once again, a reversal out of left field.
	Faggish, B-A-G-G-I-S-H, is how I spelled it, warned the bloody earth.
	Faggish warned the faggish earth.
	And again.
	Faggish warned the faggish earth.
	Okay.
	I don't know that I heard bloody, clearly.
	Oh, I didn't either.
	Huh, okay.
	I think that's David's Aussie accent.
	Let's see, let's slide it down.
	Faggish warned the faggish earth.
	Well, what else would it...
	Say Richard?
	It sounds like the baggish warned the baggy earth.
	Something like that.
	The baggish warned the baggy earth.
	Yeah, I agree.
	The baggish warned the baggy earth.
	So there's a redundancy, so we need to even more clearly understand what this term baggish refers to.
	Again, now the other thing too, I haven't checked these reversals.
	I normally triple check these three times before I go on the air.
	This is hours I've found them raw and cold, the stuff.
	Oh, you've been at warp 9 ever since you got onto this.
	Right.
	I'm amazed I've even got it ready to this stage.
	Right.
	So this is raw, unchecked, and generally before I go to the air I would normally throw out probably 20 or 30% of these reversals, so we're seeing it live as we plan it.
	But the whole trend is still there.
	Well, you can't knock success.
	Right.
	The guy sounded so stunned.
	He said, How did you know?
	And you know, this is actually how I have worked with police and investigative agencies in the past.
	I'll tell you Richard, this is not uncommon to me.
	I've found reversals before in the cases I've worked on.
	The investigative officers have then gone and confronted the suspects and said, we have information in our possession that says this and this and this and this, and I have seen People crack, just like that.
	And when Richard told me this guy cracked and admitted, I wasn't in the least bit surprised, because it's in total keeping with the way I've seen reverse speech used in the past before.
	The information is found, it's taken back to the suspect, he's confronted with it, and more often than not, he breaks down and confesses.
	Alright, well let us continue.
	Okay, alright.
	We are looking now at this one here.
	One of the walls has been knocked out, like say if you went inside, Yes it is.
	Okay.
	Now that's a possible future.
	and was knocking out the wall, there was like a rock of, you know, there was rocks that was
	that was coming out from that wall.
	And the reversal, I've documented here as I may still see it.
	I may still see it.
	I may still see it.
	Oh yeah, that's very clear.
	I may still see it.
	Yes it is.
	Okay.
	Now that's a possible future.
	I think that one is related to the photograph.
	But it's a future tense possibility.
	It's not a present tense reality, if you understand what I'm saying.
	This is...
	I would say, if this is indeed talking about the pictures, he has not seen them, if they indeed do exist, but he may.
	I don't know.
	The transcript does never go to the reality of the supposed photograph at all, not what I've done so far.
	I'll have the whole transcript finished in time for Richard and my presentation at San Diego on Saturday night.
	But there's nothing in here about the reality of the photos, but there are reversals, like That a lowly courier should not have knowledge of, and a clear plan, and I think a disinformation campaign.
	David, do you have the one before that one you just played?
	Yeah, the question mark one?
	Yeah, the question mark one.
	Okay, well I didn't play that one because there was a word I was unsure of, but maybe if someone can listen to the reversal, they can pick that word out.
	I actually think it's a, he's mentioning someone's name.
	So let's run that.
	I'm picking and choosing what I play, Richard.
	Um, one of the photographs that we looked at was, okay, now picture, picture World War II, okay?
	Picture the bombed out cities of Germany.
	Yes.
	Okay, Mr. Verhoeffer, I didn't play in order, and it's question mark, it's a name I don't recognize, we'll see this.
	In a murse, we'll see this.
	What have you got there, Richard?
	Uh, it sounds like in a murse.
	We'll see this.
	Yeah, well, um... But I don't know what Inemerse is, or who that is.
	Inemerse Presidis.
	Inemerse Presidis.
	It's actually Merge, S-H.
	Let's do it again.
	We're looking for syllable count, consonant, vowel sound.
	Inemerse Presidis.
	So that's why I didn't play it.
	Alright.
	It was a word I could not pull out, so I wasn't going to play that one.
	Maybe it'll mean something to somebody.
	Oh, I'm sure you'll get a lot of factors on this one.
	Art, one of the ways to do this is not to focus on any specific phrase, but it's the gestalt of all of them.
	And it's building a picture here of a guy telling us a story out of one side of his mouth and thinking totally separate things to the other side.
	And I think it was about this time that I rang you, Richard.
	I think I was about this far through and I rang you and I said, We've got something else going on here.
	You do not have a courier who's telling a story about photographs.
	You have someone with a clear agenda.
	He has far much more information than a courier should have.
	All right.
	Now, introduce one more before the bottom of the hour here.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Let's go.
	And, you know, he's given us a few unpleasant subtleties there as he's putting the photographs back in between the Back in between the cardboards.
	And he immediately rushes out there with them.
	That's an unusual reversal.
	Goodbye, you used him.
	I think it's his internal dialogue.
	He's talking to himself.
	He either used you, or used Richard, or used someone else, but let's run it.
	Goodbye, you used me.
	Goodbye, you used him.
	Okay?
	Yeah, I'm very clear.
	Goodbye, you used him.
	Goodbye, you used him.
	Okay, and that is whoever him is, the whole trend is still there.
	There is ulterior motives, hidden agenda.
	I'm very careful about what I document in reverse.
	There's a lot of reversals I do not document because they're not clear enough to play on the air.
	hence i would generally only get half a picture set up a full picture
	but i am confident that the half a picture of god is at least
	accurate and my whole love approach to a virtual alphabet is to be
	cautious and uh... i think my students in
	class i'd rather you talk with him about the week of the absolutely sure of
	and have at least that half of the picture alright uh...
	david hold it right there at least enough to determine that you felt he
	wasn't telling the truth from the high desert this is close to coast a m will
	be right back the
	the the
	you know i'm still in the middle of my senator with a record of the world
	702-727-8499.
	Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Once again, here I am.
	Alright.
	Back now to Richard C. Hoagland and David John Oates, and gentlemen, I have a fax here from a ham in Richmond, Virginia, fellow ham, who says, look, what was said was, they handle Houston.
	Now, I don't know if that is, in fact, what was said or not, but we were wondering, and if that, in fact, what was said, it would be very meaningful.
	David, do you have that one?
	Yes, I do.
	Here it is.
	Now keep in mind that Houston was the day after the event that he was allegedly talking to us about occurred.
	they have a huge capitalistic uh... now keep in mind
	that houston was day
	after the event that he was allegedly talking to us about occurred
	car on tuesday on the or on the fourteen
	uh... the photos came in from the second strip over cydonia Yes.
	As they were being downlinked to Earth at around noon, Clinton and Golden and a congressman from the Houston District, Congressional District, were giving a series of short speeches to the crowd at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.
	Yep.
	And they kept talking about a manned mission to Mars.
	I recall.
	Now, I have given David that tape.
	I will have those reversals ready for our presentation in San Diego on Saturday night.
	They handle Houston.
	I don't know exactly what's going on there.
	The timing of all of this and the fact that in reverse he's talking about the pictures and he's thinking they handle Houston.
	Who are they again?
	Oh no, that makes sense.
	The they's are all there, the we's are all there.
	And you may recall too the reversals of Michael Malin.
	There was a reversal about concealing the picture with a blank.
	And we played that on the air before the pictures ever came down.
	I remember that.
	As a matter of fact, in that first strip we got.
	I know, I saw that, the blank picture, and my mind immediately flashed back to Malin and the reversal I played on your program.
	All right, let us proceed now with the reversals on Kent.
	Okay, all right.
	We're going to... This one is a significant reversal.
	I got to play it.
	Unfortunately, I didn't dump it quite properly, and by the time we went to air, I didn't have a chance to go back.
	But let's just run it because it's a theme in his reversals.
	Right.
	Because one of the bigwigs down there didn't like me looking at them pictures.
	And the reversal is, he's talking about the bigwigs down there, the reversal actually says they plan to kill him, but I didn't, I cut off the end, I cut off the him, and I'll go back in and have it corrected by the time I go over on the side.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	I heard it.
	No, I heard it.
	I heard it.
	They plan to kill him.
	Yeah, well, the actual heme was actually quite pronounced when I found it.
	And I just stepped on it, so... Can you turn up the gain, David?
	Oh, OK.
	Right.
	I had it actually too loud before, so I turned it down.
	So now we'll turn the gain up, and let's do this.
	OK?
	That's clear.
	And see, he says this twice.
	We plan to kill.
	He's also said at the end of the transcript as well, and by this time, I'm getting nervous.
	I mean, this is not a courier.
	This is someone with great knowledge.
	He's planning something out very, very seriously.
	When we get to the rest on you, you'll see it's a clear disinformation campaign.
	And this next reversal here also tied this directly back into NASA, the one I'm about to play.
	term reverse ship which is I have found that on the mass reversals constantly
	without Mars and only and only Mars they don't show up in Clinton they don't show
	up in Mike Tyson they don't show up in Hillary they show up with NASA
	Man, I heard this reversal.
	The reversal itself doesn't make much sense to me, but the, uh... It makes a great deal of sense to me, dude.
	Huh?
	Alright, let's hear it.
	Let's hear it.
	Yes, I did.
	Yes, I did, and he said it doesn't matter.
	You should have just put the picture back in there.
	We don't need... We don't... He said, um... Now, not him, now.
	The other bigwig that I heard down there in the cafeteria.
	We don't need the American public looking at these pictures.
	We don't need the American public looking at these pictures and backwards.
	It's a very long reversal.
	They see it on you, being naughty when they grab her ship.
	An unusual reversal, but it's the pattern that got me going.
	The her ship.
	We've had her on the NASA reversals and ship as well.
	I dare see.
	I'm sorry, the reversal is art.
	They see it on you, being naughty when they grab her ship.
	Do you hear that?
	Yes.
	Let's do it again.
	Art, they see it on you being naughty when they grabbed her ship.
	Yes, yes.
	Too clear.
	A very clear reversal, a grandly correct, a long sentence.
	Gentlemen, this is very important.
	We've all had interesting disagreements about the meaning of certain of these phrases.
	But what I find striking is the commonality of the same theme in Kent's subconscious with other NASA people who we believe are aware of a hidden agenda.
	Well, there's a constant reference to us or they or a group not not an individual action here alright and you
	know i was grabbed her ship remember mail it said the same
	phrase almost the same way exactly correct and that's what got me and you
	know by the market the year for research with the best speech i'd know that
	group of people or peer group tend to run the same reverse speech pat
	you can actually tell family members in reverse
	by the commonalities every birth of a lot fingerprint would make sense so this tells us
	that he's got a outsider brought up somebody just running errands
	He's one of the insiders in whatever this inside deal is.
	Right, but by the time this stage came along, Richard, I was absolutely convinced, you know,
	and like I say, I've still only analyzed half this tape, and we'll have the whole story,
	well, as much as I can get out by Saturday night in San Diego.
	All right, he also says in reverse names.
	Many names.
	And I've still got to pull all these together.
	This is my preliminary analysis, and for that reason it's a goldmine.
	Because names, they do occur in reverse, but they are rare.
	But he's got at least a half a dozen, and here's one other name.
	Because I was the one that put the label on myself, and it was going to Langley.
	It's going to Langley.
	I will deal with, and I think it's Lupert.
	I've documented it as L-U-P-E-R-T.
	No, it'll be Lupert.
	Let's do it a little bit slower.
	No, it'll be Lupert.
	OK, you got that?
	Well, I will deal with is certainly as clear as can be.
	You're right.
	It's some name that I wouldn't know.
	Right.
	What do you hear there, Richard?
	Let's do it one more time.
	No, it'll be Lupert.
	Lupert is for the time being.
	Yeah, I originally documented it as Rupert, but then on reconsideration, I finally went back for Lupert.
	Let's do it one more time.
	Yeah, I hear the L there, Jim.
	I will have all this out by Saturday night, and we'll have this whole thing blown wide open.
	But I was disappointed.
	I'm so much one of those pitches to be real.
	I'm not.
	Regardless of whether Kent's story was true, Yeah.
	Kent's real story is true.
	Right.
	And the real story is frankly a lot more interesting than his fake story.
	Oh, he's definitely correct.
	And he's confirming the hidden agenda by some group in this agency.
	Right.
	Okay, now here we have a reversal about you, Art.
	Here we go.
	I got the perfect guy you need to talk to.
	And I said, well, who's that?
	I said, I don't really want to talk to anybody.
	And he says, You need to talk to Art Bell.
	And so he started going into this elaborate thing about your show and what it consists
	of and what you talk about.
	Please be sure and thank him for me.
	The first one is not, once again, I didn't get that one dumped.
	It's on my website, but it says, I will, and it's a word for set you up or do you harm, OK?
	And I couldn't play it on the air anyway.
	And then the next one after that is... Well, you could play it on Tool Time.
	Huh?
	You could play it on Tool Time.
	Tool Time?
	What's Tool Time?
	It's an American reference to a comedy show about Home Fix It.
	Builders.
	Oh, right.
	The tools they use.
	Yeah, okay.
	Starting with an S. Exactly.
	And then he says, your bell will see this.
	And it's the your bell that actually, and I'm sure that's a direct reference to you, because he does reference you forwards.
	It's the your bell that's got my questions raised.
	I'm not too sure exactly what he means by that.
	But here we go.
	I think it's your bell that sees it.
	Oh, I'm sorry, he says, loving it, your bell will see this.
	Oh, I think yes.
	You're a fabulous citizen.
	Oh, I think yes.
	You're a fabulous citizen.
	Actually, let's just play the last half.
	That's probably a bit easier.
	You're a fabulous citizen.
	OK?
	Mm-hmm.
	Do it again.
	You're a fabulous citizen.
	And it's almost like, well, he will buy this story, if that makes sense.
	OK, and I've just got one other reversal I want to play.
	All right.
	And that is another name is mentioned here.
	Very significant reversal.
	You don't even have this one on your script, Richard.
	I found this one just before we went to air.
	Here we go.
	And I noticed that the phone had been moved.
	I mean, it wasn't in the same place.
	Uh-huh.
	I mean, well, I could just tell that by just looking at the circle underneath the phone where the phone used to be.
	I understand.
	Okay, now, this is a two-reversal separated by gibberish, and the gibberish is still in there.
	I haven't had a chance to totally prepare this.
	It's a very significant reversal.
	He mentions a name, and I've got it documented as Little Moffat.
	M-O-F-F-A-T, then there's about two seconds of gibberish, followed by, he planned it.
	There's a wafflet in an old crushy, isn't it?
	Oh, I hear that.
	And let's do it again.
	There's a wafflet in an old crushy, isn't it?
	You got that, Richard?
	I think so.
	Let's do it again.
	Oh, I've got it.
	Yeah, it's pretty clear.
	There's a wafflet in an old crushy, isn't it?
	Okay, he planned it, Little Moffat.
	And so what we've got here on a preliminary analysis that was done just this afternoon under great pressure is a series of reversals that do not deal with what is saying forward.
	It shows a clear undercurrent, a hidden motive, a hidden agenda, a man who knows far more information than what he should know.
	Uh, working in a conspiratorial, I mean, a conspiracy, any word you can say, with we, they, you, your, our.
	Sure, a lot of that.
	Um, and that's what we've got.
	All right, David, um, thank you so very much.
	I know that you and Richard are going to be in San Diego.
	When is this and where and what?
	Uh, let me give out an 800 number for people who want to get tickets to David and my presentation, which will, in addition to these reversals, will have some pretty astonishing enhanced pictures From the actual surveyor, including from the third photo that's being released on Friday morning.
	Alright.
	The number is 888-338-8581.
	That's 888-338-8581.
	eight eight three three eight
	eight five eight one eight eight eight
	three three eight eight five eight one of the registered like the art bell
	chat club appearance of you and uh... and david on uh...
	uh... this coming uh...
	When?
	This coming Saturday, April 25th, better known as Richard's Birthday Bash.
	Where and when?
	That's in San Diego in the Del Mar Hall.
	It's a Del Mar Hilton.
	What time?
	7 o'clock.
	7 o'clock at the Del Mar Hilton.
	Right.
	And I'll have a whole bunch more information to present there, and if I can get out my number if anyone is interested in reverse speech, if I may.
	Yes.
	Well, thank you for having me on your program again, Art.
	I appreciate it.
	You bet.
	six nine five seven eight nine further information about reading about reverse
	speech or the work that i've done at this point david i'm gonna thank you for
	the very fast work on this uh...
	topics well thank you for having i have
	the mayor of the program again i i appreciate it you bet take care of the
	david oaks now uh... richard again for the rest of the audience of may
	have joined at midnight you armed with all of this information and i guess
	uh... a script of all of this when can't called you earlier today confronted him with
	this and he broke down and
	virtually confessed He did confess.
	Saying that, um, admitting to you that he was He claimed that he was part of a special disinformation unit of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and this had been a plan crafted to disinform you and me and the American people who listen to us, and that he was tired of the games, and the reason he was coming clear is because he was struck by the fact that I was willing to put myself on the line and have him come here to keep him safe.
	And I really want to emphasize this.
	When we talk about other folks and other groups and other agendas, we're really all human beings.
	And I think the reason that he simply leveled with me tonight is because I dealt with him as a real person who was in trouble, who needed our help.
	And he responded.
	Yeah, you were offering the opportunity, literally, to come to your house.
	In fact, you were going to take him to San Diego with you, all of this, to protect him.
	And then you confronted him with the fact that you knew it was a fraudulent story, and he virtually admitted the whole thing to you?
	He did admit the whole thing.
	And then added additional, you know, bonuses, which of course we cannot verify at this point.
	But in consistency with the reversals, I would say that he was not acting alone.
	He was part of this interior NASA rogue group.
	They have an agenda.
	And as a human being, he apparently felt that I was not the person that he had been portrayed, you know, that I was portrayed to him as.
	And when I was able to confront him with David's work, he basically told us the truth.
	Remarkable.
	I can only assume that somebody somewhere or somebodies are very displeased with me and with you, and this was a little plan to But try and get us in trouble.
	Try in some way to get us to grasp this and confirm it on the air as though it is our own belief, as so as to discredit us.
	That's the only thing I can imagine the motive would be behind it.
	I basically think you're right.
	But the important thing to remember is that in science and in investigative materials, You follow the yellow brick road.
	You follow the data wherever it leads.
	In this case, it led to a rather surprising set of revelations.
	Do you ever expect you will hear from our friend Kent again?
	I don't know.
	It's really irrelevant because the science and the photographs and the confirmations are there and we're doing additional work.
	I had a call tonight from Ron Nix, who's repairing a geology paper on things that are not geology down on that surface.
	We have the third set of images coming in on Friday morning.
	Golden has held out the promise through John Holliman that we might take additional pictures if everyone is not satisfied.
	Can I see a show of hands?
	Is everybody satisfied yet?
	Well, with regard to the first image of the face on Mars, my hand is way up in the air.
	Hell no, I'm not satisfied.
	I wasn't satisfied that night.
	I'm not satisfied now.
	And as a matter of fact, the people who have interpreted the photographs, Uh, including, uh, Mark Carlotto, uh, and everybody else concerned.
	Even Malin really wasn't satisfied and admitted that there was... What was the word he used?
	Haze?
	Uh, whatever.
	No, hell no, we're not satisfied.
	Of course not.
	Uh, let us... Let us get a picture, uh, that, uh, Kent claims he saw.
	One that looks, uh, roughly right down on the face.
	Well, again now, given our understanding of who this person is and his involvement in something much deeper, the way you hook people with a lie, Art, as you know, is to mix it with the truth.
	Sure.
	And what we found out as part of David's work and as part of our own, you know, investigative work, this was a lie concealing some truths.
	And the important truths are still to be unveiled, so all I can say is stay tuned.
	Well, look, my attitude is once a person is known to have lied to you, that you should disbelieve based on that or whatever else they tell you.
	However, it might be interesting if Kent really is coming clean based on what you said out of sort of a guilty conscience because you offered him safe harbor, then maybe he would like to let us know Who really is behind this?
	Maybe he'd like to give us names.
	Maybe he'd like to give us documentation.
	And maybe there's cheese on the moon.
	I don't know.
	Well, he did say he was tired of the game.
	He did say that... Yeah, that's what I mean.
	That's somebody who sounds like he's ready to say, I've had enough of this and so here's the truth.
	And it would be very nice to hear from him in a truthful manner.
	It certainly would.
	So that offer remains.
	Richard, thank you.
	And of course, David, I thank David, and I want to thank him again.
	So there it is, folks, the story.
	Richard, we will speak with you, I'm sure, after the photograph on Friday.
	I think we will.
	All right.
	Take care, my friend.
	Take care.
	There you have it, folks.
	There is the unraveling of Kent.
	When we come back, we're going to be in open lines throughout the remainder of this night, if you want to react to what you heard, fine.
	If you want to react, oh, by the way, I do have something on Area 51, reference an early caller in the show, and I'll get that on, and we'll talk about anything else you like.
	So that's it.
	You heard it here.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AF.
	Music playing.
	Well, how about that?
	During the break, my phone rang.
	There was a message on my machine which said, I think you know who this is, and then gave me a phone number.
	And yes, I thought I recognized that voice.
	And indeed, it is that man that we thought we knew as Kent.
	And here is that man we thought we knew as Kent.
	Kent, I'll call you Kent for lack of a better name.
	For lack of a better name?
	Because I don't have one.
	No, I can't give it to you.
	Alright, but obviously Kent was not your real name.
	No.
	No.
	Just some poor dumb working schmuck's name.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	Some dumb working schmuck's name.
	The one that you described as Kent, the story that you Yeah.
	Alright, well, what do you want to say about it all?
	I mean, I was hoping you would call in and say something after all of this.
	Well, I couldn't.
	First of all, I'd like to say to your listening audience, and to you, and to Richard Hoagland, you can't handle the truth.
	If you knew the truth, you would... May I use your words?
	Sure.
	The hair would stand up on the back of your neck.
	Well, lies stand it up, too.
	Your form has... You intentionally chose to call here and weave a completely false story.
	Why?
	I have my orders just like everybody else does in the world of soldiering.
	And what I told Richard was the exact truth.
	I am tired of the games.
	I'm tired of the whole leaving thing.
	So you really did say that to him?
	Yes, I did.
	And you admitted that you were part, he says, of an agency and a disinformation campaign, and that is the game you're saying?
	Yes, but there's a bigger picture, and I think some of your listeners may know what some of that bigger picture is.
	Well, try us.
	Some listeners may know, I don't.
	What is it?
	If the truth really got out, The Christian fabric of our nation would be unraveled.
	The beliefs of the Bible would be totally... It's like everything you've been raised up and taught to believe was sheer hogwash.
	I've embraced that possibility.
	The human mind cannot take such change.
	And the organization The organization that is involved with me, that runs me and my team, is a very powerful one.
	And they have unlimited resources.
	And as far as anybody is concerned out there in our Bells world, the truth will be known.
	But not in your lifetime.
	Not in our lifetimes.
	And I can tell you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you are about to expose to the world... I do want to say this, though.
	My superiors were very surprised.
	They were very surprised that you caught on so fast.
	The timeline didn't work out very well.
	I can tell you that.
	And they were very disappointed in that.
	So you and Richard were very, very clever.
	They were his words.
	Boy, they were clever, weren't they?
	And you may do some speech reversals on this.
	And I listened to some of them reverse speech, and I was boggled myself.
	In other words, you were boggled that it nailed you.
	I was boggled that it nailed me right to the wall.
	I have to be professional at what I do.
	Well, I admit this, the story you told on the air during, I don't know, what was it, 45 minutes total or something, I thought was very credibly told, very credibly told, and to be so credibly told must have been carefully rehearsed and planned.
	You have to know that me and my team, my team and I for those English people out there, are very trained professionals.
	And we do this for a living.
	And it's in the American people's best interest that we do this.
	Trust me when I say that.
	But your forum will not allow us to do that.

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