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March 31, 1998 - Art Bell
03:25:52
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - The Face on Mars
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From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, across all these many prolific time zones, stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains in the West, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland worldwide.
On the Internet, this is Coach Joseph and I'm Art Bell.
Hello.
Well, lots to do tonight.
For example, let me welcome WNMT in Hibbing, Minnesota.
6.50 on the AM dial there, serving the region.
Glad to have you on board.
Now, let us look through the news a little bit, see what's going on.
Lead stories from Cambodia.
Haven't seen one from Cambodia in a long time.
Hundreds of riot police armed with assault rifles and batons waded into a crowd of supporters of the President of Cambodia after they clashed Wednesday with backers of the Prince's Ark rival, the Cambodian leader Hun Sen.
The standoff threatened to escalate into wider violence and mark the sharpest confrontation between the two men since The leader returned home Monday after nine months of exile to prepare for elections, so more trouble in Cambodia.
Residents remembering the five dead in a schoolyard shooting spree at a community memorial service Tuesday night.
In a videotaped statement played at the service, President Clinton said mourners must pray for peace and healing.
I am still not clear on why it was done.
Does anybody out there know?
I've seen a whole sort of range of psychologists coming on television and explaining why these kinds of things occur.
I saw brain scans earlier today.
But I haven't really heard either one of the boys quoted as suggesting that they did it for this reason or that.
I heard an early statement only they were confused Well, they didn't remember it, which seems crazy.
You know, there was too much, uh, plotting going on.
Cars, escape routes, uh, breaking in, uh, to an area to get the weapons and the bullets and the whole thing.
So, you know, that still has me, uh, very confused.
The judge, hearing Paula Jones' sexual harassment lawsuit against the president, has ordered lawyers in the case Not to name any more women who have requested anonymity in their court filings.
Must have been a long line.
There is an Arkansas woman who denies allegations now that Clinton sexually assaulted her in the 1970s.
The Institute said its lawyer would have advised that identifying her was inappropriate.
I told you yesterday about... Oh, before I get on to this, There are several items on the website you might want to see.
We are bracing for another storm here in the desert, which actually will probably begin, I would think, during the course of my program tonight.
The rains will once again fall upon the desert.
Earlier today, I had promised... I've got a really unique system here with a satellite receiver and a special card in my computer.
That takes weather photographs.
Actual weather photographs.
And so I sent one off to Keith, and you can see the approaching storm.
Uh, it's on the website right now.
It says, uh, Arts Weather Satellite Image of the Southwest.
And I did zoom in on the Southwest.
And, uh, in Nevada, where the little asterisk is, that's where I'm located.
And you can clearly see the weather patterns extending out into the Pacific.
But I get those photographs.
Oh, I don't know.
20 times, 30 times a day, something like that.
Also, last night I read to you a news release by Sarah McLendon.
McLendon News Service release.
That's on the website because so many people asked for it.
Somebody sent me an alien in a jar.
And I must admit, it was a little baby alien, sort of a fetus alien baby.
And it was in a jar with green liquid and radioactive warnings all over it.
And when I first saw it, I kind of freaked out a little bit.
I realized quickly it was a toy.
But if you were around my house opening mail, and you received something like this, there's a picture of it on the website right now.
If you receive something like that, I guarantee for the first few moments, you would be completely freaked out.
As a matter of fact, I've got a Geiger counter here just for exactly such purpose.
As a matter of fact, let me get my Geiger counter.
Bob Crane has Geiger counters.
Now, can you believe it?
I'm probably not supposed to mention that because I don't think he's ready to sell them, but he sent me a Geiger counter.
And so when I get this kind of stuff in the mail, I can actually test it now.
I can, I can look at, uh, let's see, background radiation.
We'll see if we can get any bleeps from background radiation here.
It'll kind of give a soft little bleep every now and then.
Now see, I turn it on and it doesn't do a thing.
Can you believe it?
Is there anything here that radiates?
It's not.
I don't even have a radium dial on this watch.
It'd be something.
Normally I get a little blip of background radiation.
Maybe it's the clouds.
Anyway, I tried the dagger counter on it, and it was cold, so no problem.
Quickly realized it was a toy, but it did freak me out, so I photographed that.
The alien in a jar up on my website right now.
Now, I also have put up there, for you young people who might not know how to do it, specific instructions on how to build Your own, your very own atomic bomb.
You will find that on the website as well.
In fact, I may read it here in a bit.
Yesterday, I talked to you a bit about a new AIDS discovery.
A team of scientists is zeroing in on a mystery substance said to fight AIDS, cancer, and anemia.
Which is distilled from the urine of pregnant women.
The existence of the substance has been suspected for several years, but its precise chemical identity has proved elusive.
A group of researchers headed by a virologist, Dr. Robert Gallo, the spokesperson usually for new breaking news on AIDS research, Now report they have narrowed down the search and eliminated the leading contender.
In yesterday's issue of Nature Magazine, Dr. Gallo and his collaborators say they have crude extracts of the protein which they have named HCG-Associated Factor or HAF.
The substance appears to be a protein which clings to human Hormones produced in large quantities in the first trimester of pregnancy when HCG is extracted from urine.
Dr. Gallo said when we have it in its pure form and it's chemically identified, we'll be able to learn how it works.
And they're thinking it may actually be a cure For AIDS.
Very, very interesting, and I am going to continue to follow this very closely.
On Oahu, a man, that's in Hawaii, Oahu, a man was sentenced to attend an anger management course.
He attended.
However, he was drunk.
The instructor of the anger management course requested he leave.
When he refused, a fight broke out, and the man was killed.
Killed in a fight at an anger management course.
Possibly yet another contender for the yearly Darwin Award.
Last night we had several calls.
In fact, I've had endless faxes.
I don't understand it.
Ants showing up in people's freezers.
I mean ants by the thousands showing up in people's freezers.
So I got this today.
Art, in case no one else came up with a good solution for the ant in the freezer mystery, I have a possible solution for you.
I assume that the ants are crawling into frost-free freezers.
These freezers stay frost-free by periodically heating themselves to melt the accumulated frost, drain the frost off, and then refreeze.
So, the ants would smell the food that thaws at the outer edges of the freezer, then crawl in and get caught in the refreeze like a woolly mammoth in the Arctic.
Poor little guys.
Sort of a little ant polar shift, I suppose.
You know, I never considered the frost free freezers.
They do that.
They warm up and Temporarily, and the frost goes away, and then they get cold again, and I suppose to an ant.
If you think about it, to an ant who would crawl in there in search of food that they had sniffed, it would be like an ant polar shift, and there would be no way to explain it.
Now, how many of you would like to know how to build an atom bomb?
Hmm?
A construction method is as follows.
First, obtain about 50 pounds, you're going to need 50 pounds, 110 kilograms of weapons grade plutonium at your local supplier.
See note 1.
A nuclear power plant is not recommended as large quantities of missing plutonium tend to make plant engineers very unhappy.
We suggest you contact your local terrorist organization or perhaps the junior achievement in your neighborhood too.
Please remember that plutonium, especially pure refined plutonium, is somewhat dangerous, so wash your hands with soap and warm water after handling the material and do not allow your children or pets to play in it or eat it.
Any leftover plutonium dust is excellent as an insect repellent.
You may wish to keep the substance in a lead box if you can find one in your local junkyard, but an old coffee can will do nicely otherwise. 3.
Fashion together a metal enclosure to house the device.
Most common varieties of sheet metal can be bent to disguise this enclosure, as, for example, a briefcase, a lunch pail, or a Buick.
Do not use tinfoil.
Four.
Arrange the plutonium into two hemispherical shapes, separated by about four centimeters.
Use rubber cement to hold the plutonium dust together.
5.
Now get about 100 pounds of TNT.
Some sort of gelatin explosive is much better, but messier to work with.
Your helpful hardware man, no doubt, will be happy to provide you with this item.
6.
Pack the TNT around the hemisphere arrangement, constructed in step 4.
If you cannot find TNT, Uh, or Gelgnite, it's called.
Feel free to use TNT packed in Play-Doh or any modeling clay.
Colored clay is acceptable, but there is no need to get fancy at this point.
7.
Enclose the structure from Step 6 into the enclosure made in Step 3.
Use a strong glue such as Krazy Glue to bind the hemisphere arrangement against the enclosure so as to prevent accidental detonation which might result from vibration or mishandling.
8.
To detonate the device, obtain a radio-controlled RC servo mechanism as found in RC airplanes and cars.
With some effort, a remote plunger can be made that will strike a detonator cap to effect a small explosion.
These detonator caps can be found in the electrical supply section of your local supermarket.
We recommend the Blast-O-Matic brand because they are no deposit, no return.
Now, hide the completed device from your neighbors and children.
The garage is not recommended because of high humidity and the extreme range of temperatures experienced there.
Nuclear devices have been known to spontaneously detonate in these unstable conditions.
The hall closet, or perhaps under the kitchen sink, would be perfectly suitable, too.
Now, you are the proud owner of a working thermonuclear device.
It's a great icebreaker at parties and, in a pinch, can be used for national defense.
A theory of operation.
The device basically works when the detonated TNT compresses the plutonium into critical mass.
The critical mass then produces a nuclear chain reaction similar to the domino chain reaction discussed in this column, Dominoes, on the March, in March of 1968.
The chain reaction then promptly produces a big thermonuclear reaction, and there you have it, 10 megatons.
So there you have it.
Instructions on how to build your own atomic bomb.
I've got a note here from the Libertarian Party.
You know, they do news releases from time to time.
This one is entitled, New Cigarette Tax Could Trigger Deadly Prime Wave in the USA.
Warn Libertarians.
A federal proposal to raise the price of cigarettes by a buck ten a pack.
May not reduce teenage smoking, but it will probably leave dead bodies littering America's streets.
Ah, Steve Daschbach, the party's national chairman, said, quote, This will be the most deadly tax increase in American history.
Ah, so they're expecting that, um, if, uh, cigarettes go up a buck ten a pack, Americans will be slaughtering each other in the streets To get the money to get their smokes.
Remember the cigarette executives that sat there on the long table and one by one said, no nicotine is not addictive.
Remember that?
Listen, another storm is coming in.
You can see it on my weather photo, which I took in the afternoon on the website.
And when these storms come in, inevitably, the power goes out.
A lot of times, it's at night, it's dark.
You're going to want a couple of things.
You're going to want light, and you're going to want information.
In other words, you're going to want to know what the hell's going on.
So, the Beijing Freeplay Radio, either model A or B, is for you.
Model A, Does not use batteries, doesn't plug into the wall, it's got a crank on the side.
It was invented in Great Britain by Trevor Bayless, uh, manufactured in South Africa.
You turn the crank on the side for 30 seconds, and this wonderful radio plays AM, FM, and 7 shortwave bands for 30 minutes.
It is an amazing radio.
The Beijing With a Light Is a Radio B. And now it's modified, and there's a little jack in the back, and you plug this mag light they send you into the back, and now you turn the crank for 30 seconds.
Not only do you get 30 minutes of radio, but you get 30 minutes of light!
It's the one I prefer.
The basic Baygen is $119.95, delivered to your home.
The Baygen with a light is $139.99.
95 and boy it's worth every penny I'm telling you.
Call Bob Crane in the morning at 730 and get one on the way.
The number 1-800-522-8863.
That's 1-800-522-8863.
1-800-472-5151.
Buy two, get one free when you call now.
8863. That's 1-800-522-8863. 1-800-472-5151. Buy two, get one free when you call now. Telemark
Bell sent you. All right, Richard C. Hoagland will be here at the top of the hour, and it
should be rather interesting because they are preparing, beginning April 5th, to re-image
the Cydonia region.
and And an argument that has raged now for years about phase on Mars is about to be settled.
I've got from the NASA website the schedule that they hope to adhere to.
Looks like Richard was right.
This will be the best opportunity.
April 5th at 12.33 a.m.
Uh, let's see.
April 14th, April 23rd.
So they've got the specific times down now when they're actually going to take the, uh, try to take photographs of the base on Mars.
It's a long-awaited moment.
And I wonder what it is that Richard will have to say about that tonight.
They're going to be posting those photographs rather promptly.
It says here, in fine print, I'm Art Bell from the high desert where it's green and about to rain again.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Take a look at that weather photo up there.
It'll blow your mind.
This is the desert.
What's going on?
Well I'm making more effort to get away To realize just what I have found
I have been on this path all my life It's all clear to me now
My heart is...
Thanks for watching! Please subscribe!
To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S., first, dial your access number to the USA.
Then, 800-893-0903.
800-893-0903. If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222 from east of the Rockies.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
Call Art at 1-800-618-8255.
Or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico. Call Art at 1-800-618-8255 or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
Well, good morning everybody.
This is very interesting.
This comes from Brian.
MSNBC and CNBC did special reports about ten minutes ago entitled, UFO Can of Worms Opened.
Listen to this, folks.
Sarah McLendon received so many inquiries about her press release that she was forced to hold a press conference with a lawyer present Because she apparently disclosed info that upset somebody high up.
Tomorrow at 10 a.m.
she meets at the White House with Gore and Pentagon officials who are upset.
Her lawyer says she has been threatened by phone calls.
What's going on?
Well now this is just a fax from a listener, Brian.
But isn't that interesting?
The Sarah McLendon press release that I read that I've got posted up on the website right now.
And by the way, I didn't read the whole thing, do you?
So if you want to read the entire press release, it's up on my website along with several other interesting, curious things at www.artbell.com.
Well, let me take care of biz here and then away we go.
IRS Threat Call Tax Resources at 888-82-AUDIT.
And be sure and ask for that Art Bell discount.
Alright, um, you know, now what could Sarah have written to have really upset people in high places?
And now I'm going to enjoin you to go up and read the Sarah McLennan press release and tell me what you think in it has Really pissed somebody off.
She's got a lawyer.
Having a press conference tomorrow.
I'm going to have to re-read it myself, and for that reason, because I got so many inquiries, I did post it on the website earlier today.
Thank goodness.
Ooh, isn't this interesting?
Sarah is kind of a crusty, wonderful lady who I have interviewed on the program.
Member of the White House Press Corps since I don't know when.
And she wrote a book called Mr. President, Mr. President.
You know, you'll hear her in just about every White House news conference.
And she usually gets his attention.
Probably doesn't want to sit there and listen to that.
But it works.
She's a very interesting lady.
I wonder what she said in that press release that got their attention.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
I was just calling in, I heard a couple weeks ago on the show that someone you knew was going to do a march on Area 51.
I never really heard much else about it.
Yes, I believe it's coming up June 6th.
June 6th?
And it's spearheaded by troublemaker Norio Hayakawa.
Really?
Who's really a pretty cool guy.
Just be sure to keep us updated.
I've just kind of been in the dark, hoping.
Are you going to go March?
No, I'm in Central Alabama.
Still in school, so not going to be able to be a part of it.
Not this time.
So you'll just have to enjoy it from afar.
Hopefully.
Hopefully everything goes well.
Hopefully it does.
Right.
Thank you very much.
Well, a lot of times people end up in the county pokey up there and they've got to be bailed out.
I wish Norio luck, but... and if it's a peaceful thing that goes around the perimeter, there's not going to be any problem.
If there are hundreds or thousands of people up there that are hell-bent on going in to see the E.T.' 's, then there's going to be a problem.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Hi, um, this is Jeff in Washington.
I'd like to say, you know, I'm 14 and I love your show.
Oh, well, thank you.
I'd like to say, um, Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Yeah?
Turn your radio off.
Oh, I'm sorry.
That's alright.
I'd like to say hi to my friend, um, Eric.
He's our science teacher.
He talks about you once in a while, so...
He does, huh?
I just want to say I love your show and...
and it lets me know what's going on in the world.
Thank you.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Yeah?
What does your science teacher say about me?
Oh, he just...
he just talks about, like, male toll sometimes and stuff like that.
Mel's Hole?
Yeah, you haven't talked about that for a while.
It's been a while.
We had another fellow with a hole on here not long ago, and we had a photograph of it up there, too, which I thought was particularly cool.
Yeah, your website's pretty cool.
I've been on it a couple times.
Oh, there's new stuff up there every day.
Yep.
You've got to go see my alien in a jar.
It's really cool.
Okay, I'll do that.
Alright, thank you.
It arrived in the mail.
It's obviously some kind of toy.
But it's cool.
It does look like a baby alien fetus.
And it is pretty gross.
And when it arrived in the mail earlier in the day, Ramona, who generally opens a mail, brought it in to me and said, here, and handed me this jar.
And I took a photograph of it, and I think Keith has saved that, and you can also view that up there along with everything else.
What did Sarah McLennan say?
Hmm.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello there.
It's just me, Fritz von Phoenix.
Hey, Fritz.
Wait till Sarah sees the UFO documentary on UPN, Monday night, April the 6th.
Her hair will stand up.
Well, is it going to be better than the last one on UPN?
Well, it's going to be... It's called UFOs in Our Skies.
Of course, Phoenix will be shown, and Mexico, and it's going to be a parade of UFO sightings worldwide over major cities, etc.
Fritz, you'd be a good one.
You ought to go up on my... Do you have a computer, Fritz?
No, I don't.
Oh, you don't have a computer?
Not yet.
Oh, my God.
Well, I would like you to read the Sarah McLennan thing and see if you can pick out for me what apparently Made a lot of people angry.
I'm really curious about that.
Maybe somebody made a mistake and gave her too much information.
Maybe so.
I'm going to read the damn thing right now, for instance.
Okay.
All right?
All right, thank you.
This is from the McLennan News Service by Sarah McLennan, White House correspondent, Dateline, Washington, D.C.
Unidentified flying objects, a term given for many years to unexplained sightings of craft in the skies over every state in the Union, Our actual visitors from other worlds believe a community of scientists and technicians employed by government.
The real danger to the U.S., and perhaps this whole planet, is the government has placed such a heavy blanket of secrecy upon this issue.
So much secrecy, those in government who have knowledge showing UFOs are identifiable, feel the subject cannot be discussed by those in the know without serious repercussions.
Others are afraid their friends and co-workers will think they're crazy if they even so much as insinuate that UFOs are identifiable as manned craft from outside the Earth.
This particularly applies to newspaper editors and publishers, reporters and analysts.
Thus, the U.S.
is denying itself the chance to learn more about UFOs or to encourage research, despite the fact that the U.S.
stands to gain from any such discussion.
Not publicized, but true, is that the Clinton administration, soon after coming to office, had many briefings on the subject.
Lawrence Rockefeller provided the information for the President and Mrs. Clinton, Others provided documents and verbal briefings to Presidential Advisors Jack Gibbons, Bruce Lindsay, Anthony Lake, and Vice President Albert Gore.
About the same time, a three-hour briefing was given to Dr. Stephen Greer, to the sitting director of the CIA, Admiral Woolsey.
Subsequently, Clinton instructed Webster Hubble, when naming him to the position of Associate Attorney General at the Justice Department, ...that he wanted him to investigate and report back on two things.
Circumstances surrounding the death of President John F. Kennedy, and the existence of UFOs.
Hubble, despite his position and the presidential impromptur, was boxed in at the Justice Department and was never able to find out.
All of this was disclosed in Hubble's memoir, Friends in High Places.
Now, the lid on UFOs is gradually coming off.
There is a national drive underway to get one million signatures on a petition calling for an open congressional hearing for government employee witnesses.
Dr. Stephen Greer, Director of the Center for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, devotes most of his time seeking disclosure of government evidence Proving the existence of craft manned by non-humans.
Another who feels that positive proof exists within government is Lieutenant Philip J. Corso, retired, who reveals in his book, The Day After Roswell, that he was in charge of the Roswell files during his tenure as head of the Army's Foreign Technology Division.
He states these files contain the crash which occurred at Roswell, New Mexico, and that it was an alien spacecraft.
This completely refutes the Air Force denials and subsequent explanations.
Corso says that the crashed vehicle was studied and proved to be manufactured of materials unknown as to source and usage in this country.
In time, he says, this and other UFOs provided ...technologies which were worked into the commercial world via front companies.
Incidentally, he vouches for the fact that this has proven to be a valuable contribution to US aircraft design and commercial products.
After the Roswell incident, the Air Force replied to reporters' inquiries that this was all part of research using weather balloons and other equipment Corso and hundreds of others who work or have worked in secret defense and scientific agencies are willing to swear under oath that alien craft are repeatedly penetrating our airspace.
Whenever the military agencies are asked to look into this matter further, the answer is always the same, quote, we do not investigate UFOs, end quote.
And then it gives a number for contacting the McClendon News Service.
Now, what do you think in that memo really got somebody upset?
Any thoughts?
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning to you, sir.
I'm calling you from Denver.
Right.
I wanted to change the subject just a little bit.
Okay.
I don't know if you heard, but the Denver Police Almost caught the Atlanta abortion bombing suspect.
No, I had not heard.
Almost caught?
Well, they pulled him over.
It was a routine traffic stop and the license came back as this guy that was involved.
Actually, it wasn't Atlanta.
It was wherever the officer was killed.
That bombing.
And it was kind of a rural part of Denver near the airport.
When was this?
Nine o'clock Denver time tonight.
No kidding.
And the officer walked up to him.
He turned off the lights of the car and sped off.
And that's kind of like, say, a rural area.
The streets weren't lit.
And when he got to the end of the road, they didn't know which way he turned.
So he kind of... So he lost them?
Yeah.
They have a drag net around.
I mean, every agency in the state is looking for him.
But it's like he got away for now.
Well, too bad.
Yeah, it is.
They would have caught him.
I just thought I'd share that with you.
Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure the audience does as well.
Thank you.
It's pretty rough when you do a traffic stop until you confirm what somebody is or is not.
You're on very tenuous ground as a cop, really.
Traffic stops and domestic disputes are the two most dangerous things, generally, that a cop does.
And when you do a traffic stop, you know, somebody's blown a light or they're speeding or something, you're generally not going to be particularly on alert until you get that radio call.
So there's a little period of time in there where somebody would have an opportunity, I suppose, under some circumstances to run.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Good morning, Art, Tim, and Denver.
Hi, Tim.
I just wanted to let people know about this public service announcement that's been running on CAHO.
It's very odd.
There's a young girl, girl's voice, and she says, my mom wasn't feeling well today, so I decided to give her a puppet show.
And my one puppet was a cow.
My other puppet was a little green alien.
And when I put on the puppet show, I make them speak the same language so they'll understand
one another.
And then it says, this message was brought to you by the Church of the Later Day Saints,
the Mormons.
Really?
Well, cows talk to aliens and aliens talk to cows.
You can see that in a recent South Park episode.
I just thought it was a very strange public service announcement for the Mormons to be
putting on the air.
I mean, cows are not humans.
You're absolutely right, Tim.
It is very strange and maybe somebody from Utah would like to call and explain it.
That would be great.
Thanks, Tim.
That's strange.
Anybody see the South Park episode where they had an abduction?
I thought it was great.
Absolutely great.
And in the abduction, that there were cows in that episode and the aliens would
come down and you could see an alien typical gray, you know tall and
Sort of reach out from behind a rock with a little bit of hay in his hand
Saying here cow here cow and all the cows hundreds of them Their eyes got very big and they turned around and stampeded
in the other direction It was a riot.
You had to be there.
Here's to the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Hello there, Art.
It's Vince in Chicago.
Yay, Vince.
Uh, here's the lie with Satellite 7.
Uh, I think those reversals that Richard and David worked on last week, uh, definitely there's something going on there.
I just, they just all mean so much.
The source of the Nile.
The metaphors, I think Richard really strung them together quite well.
I know some people might not, that haven't been following this whole investigation of the Enterprise mission might not get it, but I got the aha that Richard was talking about.
No, so did I. This might be a little off subject, maybe not.
I know it's so hard to get through to Richard when he's on, but you mentioned a little bit about the JFK assassination.
I mentioned that Sarah McLendon wrote that there were two things that the president wanted to know when he got into office.
One was about JFK and the other was about UFOs, yes.
Well, you know, Art, some of the investigation I've been doing, a little bit of rummaging around, I've encountered a little bit of this symbolism in the JFK assassination.
And I was just wondering if you might ask Richard Hoagland if he ever If you ever did the Redshift software investigation onto... I'm sure he's listening, so he'll be on in a few minutes and he can answer that.
Okay, I'd be kind of wondering about that.
All right, Vince, as much as you like that, you should get Redshift yourself.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hey.
Hey.
How's it going, Art?
It's going.
Where are you?
I'm in Alaska.
My name is Mike, and I just had a question for you.
Okay, what part of Alaska are you in, Mike?
I'm in Big Lake, Alaska.
Okay.
Yeah, my brother listened to you about every night he's down here.
I actually just ran upstairs to hear me on the radio.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, but I had a question about one of the planets.
Okay.
I thought maybe you could answer it for me.
Call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
Call 1-800-618-8255 Yes, there are.
Have beans for supper, something like that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Great art.
That was it, huh?
Yeah, that was it.
All the way from Alaska, you called to say something with absolutely zero meaning and not even any humor.
Yes, sir.
Take care and grow up.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Oh, hello.
Hi.
I was beginning to think this program was a delight.
Because I've got to, like, six different times.
Well, if you would turn your radio on, we'd proceed.
We are delayed ever so slightly.
What's on your mind?
Well, what's on my mind is you were talking about the ants with the refrigerators.
Oh, yes.
Okay, what's happening there is the ants are getting flooded out.
They want to get into something, and how they get into refrigerators is through the drain.
Most refrigerators are self-defrosting.
Right, um, I did, yeah, I read that, uh, fax, and, uh... So then what happens is they get into the refrigerator... And then it freezes.
Well, they're climbing because it's cold and they're uncomfortable, so they're gonna climb higher.
Yeah, but it's gonna be getting colder as they climb.
Yeah, but they don't know that.
They don't know that?
They don't know that.
And then so they get up there, and... Yeah, and that's the end of them.
That's the end of them.
Well... They're getting flooded out, and as far as the flies, they're just...
All right, thank you.
It certainly is a horrible death, and as the person in the email suggested, for the ants, it's like a polar reversal.
I mean, in the ant world, it would be just like a polar reversal, wouldn't it?
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, Richard Hoagland.
And if he's awake, up next, stay right where you are.
That's area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is.
Good morning, everybody.
Coming up in a moment, Richard C. Hoglund, winner of several awards, actually the Angstrom Science Award, one-time advisor to Walter Cronkite, Actually, I don't know what his middle initial was.
Advisor to NASA.
NASA poster boy, to be sure.
I'm sure they've got pictures of Richard lining the halls of NASA.
Houston and JPL.
That's quite a vision when you think about it.
Well, listen.
I've got several things up on my website you're going to want to see.
Number one would be A weather photograph.
I've been promising to put that up for some time.
I've got a very special program here with my computer that allows me to receive direct NOAA satellite photos.
And it's up there to take a look at.
And I took that this afternoon, late this afternoon.
As the clouds rolled in, once again, dump more water on the desert.
So I thought I would show you what kind of weather photos I get.
And if you look at Nevada and the little asterisk there, you'll see where I am, and you'll see the approaching weather front with more wetness.
We have the Sarah McLendon news release on the website now.
And by the way, I had a fax about the news release, and it is from none other than Marty, who I'm going to now have to hunt down and kill.
It's April Fool's Day, and the facts was about Sarah, and the facts about Sarah Nemitz, NBC and CNN stuff was really from me.
Well, I knew that.
I thought you were just telling the truth.
He goes on, yup, in some parts of the country, it's already April Bell's Day.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
April Fool's Day, I forgot it was April Fool's Day.
Good Lord.
Then, earlier today, um, I got an alien in a jar.
You're gonna love this.
I took a photograph of it.
Keith, uh, held that photograph.
And then finally, I have instructions on how to build your own atomic bomb, which is going to make you number one in the hood.
So, uh, there it is.
specific instructions on how to build an atomic bomb on my website.
There's big news from NASA, and that is that the Mars Global Surveyor is going to take
photographs of the face on Mars.
It looks like there are three coming opportunities, one April 5th, one April 14th, one on April 23rd.
And so they are about to take pictures, high-res pictures, of the face on Mars.
And I guess the press is rushing to Richard Hoagland's doorstep to get his reaction.
And either way, in other words, if the high-res photo showed the face to be not a natural object, or if it goes the other way, they will look for Richard to be saying something like, well, I don't know what he'd say.
We'll ask him in a minute.
In a minute.
All right, now to an area near Albuquerque, New Mexico, high in the mountains, here is Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard, welcome.
Good morning, Alex.
Good morning, everyone.
It's great to have you on again, and particularly now because, boy, big news, huh?
What is today?
Today is Well, it's April 1 in some parts of the country, so we have to forgive certain people.
Well, not if I can get my hands on them.
You know, this is the most extraordinary time to be alive.
I have been looking at this problem now, initially, tangentially, and beginning about 15 years ago, very directly.
And I look back and it's kind of like, you know, when your life flashes before your eyes.
Yes.
I really didn't believe that we would arrive where we are tonight.
And as I said to the San Jose Mercury News, you mentioned before that we've had a lot of press.
Yes, there has been a lot of press calling and faxing.
And we're talking major networks.
Sure.
And major papers ranging from the San Jose Mercury News, which is probably the most technologically sophisticated A hard copy newspaper in the United States.
It's a good newspaper.
Excellent.
And I had an excellent discussion with the science reporter, Glenda Chu, this afternoon for several hours, almost an hour, and I referred her to several other members of this far-flung Cydonia independent family of researchers who have contributed over the years.
We've had calls from the Washington Post, we've had calls from MSNBC, We've had a UPN crew, not the sightings, not the sightings.
What's the other show they do?
Help, Help.
I'm not sure.
They did Abduction at Clear Lake.
No, no, no.
Those are special.
I'm talking about the regular syndicated Beyond Belief, is it?
There are so many now.
Anyway, this is the UPN News Division.
Okay.
Which is out of Channel 13 in Los Angeles.
They are flying a camera crew and reporter and director here next week.
To sit down in Enterprise and look at the computers.
I predict, Richard, they will get a camera crew there.
They will have a camera on you as you download the first picture that comes of Cydonia.
Wanting to capture the reaction on your face, I know that's what it's all about.
Yeah, that's part of what it's all about.
What I'd like to do tonight, for people who have joined your Bell Network family, is to kind of give a reprise over the next hour or so of how we got to where we are.
Okay.
Because a lot of people don't know the history of this inquiry.
They certainly aren't aware of the Viking missions 20 years ago that took these pictures, of the controversy of all the players of the ebb and flow.
I mean, if they wanted to cut all that out, they could go directly to my book, which is the Monuments of Mars, the City on the Edge of Forever, which is kind of the record of this investigation from the beginning, going all the way back to when I sat as a correspondent in the JPL Auditorium, the von Karman Auditorium, and along with about a thousand other scientists and engineers and news people and space groupies and folks like that, was regaled with this first image by Dr. Jerry Soplin, who was the Mars Project Scientist for Viking.
Who basically showed us this quirky face and said, isn't it cute what tricks of light and shadow can do?
That was the beginning, and tonight is the penultimate climax of a 22-year saga, a mystery story that may have a happy ending, and then again, it may not.
It really depends on... Richard, what is a happy ending in this case?
Well, a happy ending is an honest test.
I am extremely apprehensive that we are being set up, Art, for a dishonest test.
Alright, here's what they say, Richard.
Now, comment on this.
The first attempt will be made April 5th at 1233 AM Pacific Time, posted to the website by midday April 6th.
That means we're five days from having the first photograph.
And then there will be two more attempts, in each case, posted the day following, or even the same day.
So, You know, everybody, of course, I mean, you've made a 20-year saga of this, Richard, and I'm sure the press is going to be there looking for your reaction.
Would you care to predict right now, when this first picture, high-res, supposedly, paints down, what do you think we're going to see?
I haven't a clue, and I'll tell you why, alright?
This highway, this Mars journey, going through the Martian doorway, as I sometimes termed it, I have had the most sobering reality check as to politics and science in America over the last 20 years that anybody could possibly measure.
Remember, my background, as you mentioned at the top of the show, is Walter Cronkite, NASA consultant, paid in planetarium, very mainstream, very, you know, squeaky clean.
As I began to delve into this problem, as I described to the San Jose Mercury News this afternoon, the thing that bothered me initially about this whole problem was that Vincent DiPietro and Gregory Molinar, who in 1976 were two imaging engineers working at Goddard, at the Goddard Space Flight Center, where many years later I would become a consultant.
And Vince is still there.
Molinar has gone back to Minnesota, I think he works in his His family's computer company, but Vince DiPietro is still, as far as I know, an employee of Lockheed, Lockheed Martin now, working on imaging, as his expertise would dictate, as an imaging engineer, for various NASA projects.
These two gentlemen, in the first couple of years after the photographs were taken of Cydonia and the infamous face was made public, Stumbled across this one afternoon, apparently on a lunch break, in the NASA files.
And they were honestly intrigued because it was so startling.
And it looked like life on Mars.
And they knew, because they were NASA folks, that the Resendeckra for Viking had been the search for life on Mars.
And they were astonished to find this real 8x10 glossy in a NASA archive file that they were looking at.
And they began They were doing a kind of an off-hours private investigation on their own, and they subsequently did image processing.
They found the second frame, the corroborative frame, taken 35 days later in 76 by Vikings.
They put these together.
They went to a little company down the road in Silver Spring, whose name I now forget.
They did, you know, computer processing.
They invented an algorithm to do better computer processing.
They did all the things that good scientists and engineers should do.
And then, lo and behold, they got a platform in front of a mainstream scientific group, which was the American Astronomical Society.
The same group, by the way, that 20-some years later, Tom Van Flanern would address a few months ago.
All right?
I want to link these little pages here.
And the you-know-what hit the rotating receptacle.
NASA came after them with everything they had I know, a little too hard if you ask me.
I came after them a little too hard, I guess.
Well, they shouldn't have come after them at all.
No.
So I look at this as a correspondent, as a science journalist, as someone who was trained in the art of fact-finding at the knee of, you know, Walter C. And my antenna, even at that early stage, this is now 81, 82, somewhere around that time frame, when I encountered this story, at a Case for Mars conference in Boulder, Colorado.
My new sense said, what's wrong with this picture?
If NASA wants to find life on Mars, and NASA is going to the American people asking for billions of dollars for space exploration, and NASA ultimately wants a manned mission to Mars, why, when two of their own do good science and good engineering, and publish in the accepted peer-reviewed process of presenting at a mainstream scientific conference, Why try to destroy these two individuals?
And that was my first hint that this is not an honest system, it is incredibly crooked, and tonight I cannot say to the American people we're going to get an honest test because, frankly, I don't think we are.
Well, let's just be blunt.
Are you suggesting that these photographs will be doctored There are many ways that this test could be, shall we say, skewed.
Yeah, so?
Well, starting with pointing.
Dr. Malin, who is the principal investigator now on this mission, Mars Surveyor, whose duplicate camera, the one that flew on Satellite 7, as one of your callers said earlier, on Mars Observer five years ago, disappeared.
Dr. Malin's sole prerogative in terms of his contract is to take these pictures.
Now, he has been telling us for years The extraordinary difficulties because the spacecraft doesn't have a scan platform.
The camera cannot literally be pointed.
What they're going to have to do to get pictures in this very intensive targeting mode that they've now suddenly decided upon is to literally roll the entire spacecraft and point it either left or right so that as it flies down across the Sedonia region, which is a region as large as the Bay Area up near San Francisco, about 25 miles In the long section and maybe 10 miles in the cross section, he will attempt to scan a swath, a strip of images across features of interest.
And the face, of course, is only one of the features in this region.
And it comes down precisely as I get my NOAA weather forecast pictures, which I posted up on the website.
It comes down in a slow scan fashion.
And as the spacecraft passes over, it's slowly painting The photographs.
Now, because this is a targeted set of observations, and there's nothing else really on his agenda, because this is a special activity that apparently your audience really forced them to the edge of the cliff on.
Is there any question in your mind about that, Richard, that my audience did that?
Not at all.
I mean, given the fact that we have our sources at NASA and our sources at ABC and CNN, And literally tens of thousands of faxes.
I know.
Papered Dan Golden's floor.
I know.
I know.
So they took, anyway, the bottom line is they took yes for an answer.
Gave yes for an answer.
The question is, how serious is the yes?
When we come back after the break, I want to read you a story by an old friend of mine, David Perlman, who is the Chronicle Science Editor for the San Francisco Chronicle.
And it is stories like this by a very good science journalist that give me great hesitation to say tonight we're going to get an honest test.
Do you have, do we have, in the private sector, the ability to examine the photographs they send and determine that they have or have not been doctored?
That's one question.
To a limited degree, and we'll get into the details of how that could be done, you know, as the evening progresses.
Before the evening is over, probably toward the end of the second hour, because I don't want to do this while we still have New York and we have time for questions, I am going to make a major announcement from the Enterprise mission.
We have a, how should I say, something of a bombshell in terms of how we can test these images, how we can potentially enhance the The percentages for an honest test as opposed to a dishonest test.
But I want to wait until we do some background for people who have joined us in this search, in this story, until toward the end of the story before I lay that on everyone.
Privately.
Which, we're not private right now.
Yeah, just between you and me and my friends.
What do you think? In other words, there are two opportunities here. One is to get a job.
There are two opportunities here.
One, if you're right, and they've known all along, that this is not a natural object.
This is an opportunity for them to blow the lid off everything.
Disclosure time.
Steve Bassett, you know, thinks it's going to happen.
You know, this is Stephen's model, which I do not agree with.
I have documented, and I'm going to bring up expert testimony, including people like Stan McDaniel later in the morning.
I have documented, sadly, To my great dissatisfaction and unpleasant reaction.
A chain of lies and deception and malevolence on the part of certain people in NASA to hide the real space program, to hide the real data, going back now to the inception of the NASA program that we all have looked at.
Against that backdrop, I do not see politically how they can possibly come clean at this point.
Because it is such a shattering paradigm shift.
Now, in opposition, if I were to take the devil's advocate position, I would say that if this represents a major policy change, if, as some of our observers and our sources have hinted at, that there has been a major rethinking at the highest levels, then I would have to bring up the potential reasons for that shift.
And there are a couple of things that have happened in the last year, That could be a reason for a major reassessment of secrecy on this magnitude.
But given the past track record of this agency... You don't expect it.
I do not expect it.
But the announcement I'm going to make in an hour and a half or so will literally potentially have the possibility of changing that equation.
Because it will involve a lot of the folks That basically made this night possible, namely the people who faxed Dan Golden and demanded an accounting on this issue.
So you've got me puzzled now, Richard.
Make your announcement, Damon!
I can't wait that long!
Anyway, again, so your expectation is, and you seem to be saying that quite clearly now, that whatever we get, It is not going to be honest.
Is that fair?
At this point in time, I would have great hesitation in thinking that it would be honest.
Now, one of my reasons, and this is the little deep water we got into the other night.
By the way, let me say something, alright?
I received a number of faxes scolding you for our interview the other night.
And I want to say that Art Bell is my friend.
Art Bell is a valued colleague.
Art Bell has done what no other journalist or interviewer or radio personality I suppose so.
Richard, I don't... We're at a break point here.
I don't mind getting scolded.
I get scolded all the time.
It's just part of the job.
for though, Jay? You have become the program of record of the Sedonia investigation.
I suppose so. Richard, I don't, uh, we're at a break point here. I don't mind getting
scolded. I get scolded all the time. It's just part of the job. No problem. Anyway,
it's coming soon, folks.
April 6th, we should have the first picture.
April 14th, number two.
And then April 23rd, posted on the 24th, we should have the final Cydonia image of the face on Mars.
And then April 24th, we should have the final Cydonia image of the face on Mars.
And then April 25th, we should have the final Cydonia image of the face on Mars.
And then April 26th, we should have the final Cydonia image of the face on Mars.
And then April 27th, we should have the final Cydonia image of the face on Mars.
Nothing's good, nothing's strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
♪ Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ♪ ♪ Ah, ah, ah, ah ♪
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This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Knock.
You again, Azar.
Here again, I am.
Good morning, everybody.
Richard C. Hoagland is here.
He'll be right back.
800. That's 1-800-627-8800.
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Well actually Richard and I have been friends for years.
He's absolutely right about that and there have been many other times we have come to opposite poles on issues.
I remember when the little You know what people need to realize is that you and I had some interesting conversations off record.
All the time.
Where I was discussing symbol and metaphor and you were too.
We were at odds the other day over metaphors.
You know what people need to realize is that you and I had some interesting conversations
off record.
All the time.
Where I was discussing symbol and metaphor and you were too.
I made a proposal to you one night, which I think you went on the air and actually announced.
I said, let's do a show on symbol and metaphor as it relates to this investigation.
That's right.
And come at me hard.
I said I really want you to take a strong position and question me closely and sharply.
And I think people the other night might have gotten a misimpression because I did not feel at all off-put by the tone and the temper of our discussion.
And given the fact of the faxes and the emails and all that, that got the points that David and I were trying to make, It's obvious that as part of the discussion there was a lot more light than heat.
So I don't want people to take it out on you because I specifically asked you.
Again, Richard, I don't care.
People take things out on me all the time.
When my friends are unjustly accused, I get a little bit upset.
My position hasn't changed.
I think that metaphors are extremely interpretive.
They may be useful, but the public doesn't understand a lot of them, to which I will get, well, you underestimate your audience.
But when you get something like, the feet are cold, alright?
Well, that could mean a lot of things.
It could mean that subconsciously, This person is getting cold feet about what they're saying or thinking or planning.
It could mean that some little part in a spacecraft is going to freeze and blow up.
Who the hell knows?
Sure.
I totally agree.
But, on the other hand, we sound like lawyers, don't we?
Or basically economists.
On the other hand, when you hear a line from mail in reverse, hear the lie with Satellite 7.
Yeah.
And this is a scientist who is the principal investigator on a mission to Mars.
Not Jupiter, not Saturn, not Earth, not Alpha Centauri, but to Mars, and you start simply counting the numbers of missions to Mars that we've had, and lo and behold, the spacecraft that's in most contention, Mars Observer, is Satellite 7 in the series of satellites we've sent to Mars, because they are technically all satellites of the Sun.
You really have to pause as part of the larger picture.
The thing is, I just don't pause as long as you do.
Now, Vince, before we went on the air, Vince said, be sure and ask Richard about the symbology of the Kennedy assassination, what that has to do with all this.
I haven't a clue what he means by that.
Okay.
All right.
Let's not get digressed into that.
Let's deal with Cydonia first, and we can deal with that later.
Okay.
What I want to do is two things now, now that we've got about 20 minutes.
I want to read you a story from the Chronicle by David Perlman, who is a longtime colleague.
and i covered a lot of uh...
after the other back when i was doing that you know as part of the contract
team and he's on the bridge is part of a freelance group he was obviously struck by
the as an outspoken he has no one of me though the investigation
uh... for many many years he wrote the story without
without calling any of the independent investigators this is a david perlman story based solely on the nasa spin
So let me read this to you, because this is very important to me in terms of how the agency is treating this with those that are kind of on the in crowd.
Right.
As with any other feat, you know there are reporters that cover certain stories in certain fields more than others do.
Sure.
There's the White House Press Corps.
Sarah's part of that.
There's the State Department.
There's the Pentagon.
You know, there's freelancers, kind of national correspondents, like John Holliman, who have a wide-ranging mandate, but is particularly intrigued with NASA, so they pitch him a lot of NASA stories.
And then there are people who are science journalists, like Dave Perlman, whose soul beat his science.
All right.
And NASA.
NASA to take pictures of the face on Mars.
Images may answer mystery of rock.
This was 32798, this story.
Okay.
Lovers of the paranormal, this is what really didn't make me sit down well, okay?
Lovers of the paranormal, fans of UFOs and true believers, convinced the government has long hidden the truth about the legendary face on Mars, will be delighted by NASA's news.
Mars Global Surveyor, the spacecraft now transmitting the best high-resolution pictures of the Martian surface ever, is about to try shooting close-ups of that famous face As a spacecraft flies above the controversial rocks home in the Cydonia region of the Red Planet.
Scientists at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena announced yesterday that Global Surveyor will make three tries to capture the image at high resolution early next month and will make the pictures available on the Internet as soon as they are received.
When the two Viking spacecraft landed on Mars in 1976 and sought in vain for evidence of life, Pictures of the Cydonia region taken from orbit showed a large and curious rock that resembled a human or ape-like face.
Prosaic scientists called it just another Mars rock, but more speculative folk insisted that the image was proof that some ancient civilization had left a huge humanoid statue on the planet.
Some linked the face to the builders of the Tower of Babel.
Some to extraterrestrials, and some to other rocks that were seen as the ruins of ancient Martian monuments.
Many, still convinced that the National Aeronautics and Space Administration is deliberately concealing the truth, insist that the best Viking pictures have never been released.
Quote, Most scientists believe that everything we've seen on Mars is of natural origin, said Karl Pilker, NASA's acting chief of solar system exploration.
However, he went on, We also believe it is appropriate to seek to resolve speculation about features in the Cydonia region by obtaining images when it is possible to do so.
The new images will not cost taxpayers anything extra as the spacecraft has already been scheduled to fly over the Cydonia region.
It will also try photography of the site of last summer's Mars Pathfinder landing as well as the sites where Viking spacecraft landed more than 20 years ago.
Now let me tell you what's wrong with that.
I know David Perlman.
He's a very serious science journalist.
What he did when this news came out is he put in a phone call either to Dan Golden or to Karl Pilker.
And if there had been a hint of serious science art in their response, if they had done more than giggle into the phone, if they had said, you know, David, this could be something significant.
You'd better write a story that prepares your readers for something major.
He would have written a totally different story, but this is the cart and parcel of the kind of story which has been written at the giggle factor level over the last 22 years.
Nothing has changed, and that's why I'm not optimistic.
All right.
Well, let me give you what would be the worst possible scenario.
All right?
We have pressured them politically into doing what they're about to do.
You acknowledge that.
I think we all know it's true.
With our gazillions of faxes and emails.
And now they're really doing it.
I mean, they've given us the three dates and they're really going to do it.
Here's what I see possibly happening.
You said they turn the spacecraft around, right?
Well, they have to turn it from side to side.
Yeah.
When they pass to the left of the objects they want to photograph, they've got to roll it to the right so the camera points down toward the left, and vice versa.
And this is done fairly low in the Martian atmosphere, right?
The periapsis, or the closest approach, will be 106 miles above the surface.
That's still above the Martian atmosphere, by the way.
But it's basically at John Glenn's orbital altitude back in 1962 above the Earth, with a state-of-the-art 1990s camera.
We should be able to read the darn license plates.
Or, as Malin once quipped in the Washington Post, following our first press conference back in 88, he said he would not believe that there was anything artificial down there unless he could see the lawn furniture.
Alright, well here are two scenarios.
One is, they get too close.
The resolution is too high, and an object that was intended to be seen from a distance in space is rendered nothing more than a pile of rocks close up.
That's one.
Scenario two is the worst of all, and that is that they turn the spacecraft, it plunges into the atmosphere, and they blame it on you.
Don't rule it out.
Not bad.
That's all I've got so far.
Oh, I thought you had a list here.
I thought you were on a roll.
No, no, no, that's it.
I just was sitting here thinking... Let me address your serious one, which is number one, alright?
In the nominal mapping orbit, which was 200 and some miles upstairs, the footprint, the size of a square picture taken by the Malin camera, is about a mile on the side.
Now, if you were to photograph a mile of a city on Earth, a square mile, you would find stunning affirmation of artificiality.
One of the things I was struck by a few years ago were the helicopter shots taken by the networks of the homestead uh... florida after hurricane andrew had done its work
and although there was incredible amounts of debris and destruction and
and and tragic scenes what was stunning in the helicopter shots in fact i use
this on good morning america
when i was interviewed actually had them going to take them and and run role
tape you could see the square foundations
of all the houses the track home that had been literally blown away
Alright, give us a little perspective.
The original pictures, the ones that we are working with now, that are so old, what, 30 years old now?
No, they're 22 years old.
22 years old, thank you, alright.
Alright, what would, how small an object would have been resolved in those photographs?
Okay, one pixel, one picture element, one dot in the newspaper, you know, dot matrix kind of production.
Right, right, right.
was half a football field in size, 150 feet.
One pixel in these pictures, if he goes right over the object
and is looking straight down, and he's 106 miles away, which is not gonna happen.
More likely he'll be two or three or 400 miles away and never have to move sideways.
One pixel at optimum resolution, the best he can do, will be less than a coffee table.
Less than three feet.
Wow, so we go from a football field Toward a coffee table.
So if there's lawn furniture down there, Michael, you're going to see it.
Provided we get the honest test.
Now, there are many problems that I have with the way this has been set up.
And one of the things I want to do as we move through the morning is to describe some of the independent people who have critiqued The NASA protocols and procedures on this question over the years, most notably Dr. Stan McDaniel, who came to me in the early 90s, 91, 92.
He was the chairman of the Department of Philosophy at Sonoma State University, which is up in Northern California.
He was an epistemologist, he was a historian of science, he knew science protocols, and he got casually intrigued with this because, to him, it represented a kind of thorny problem in science philosophy for his students.
In other words, how do you test this kind of weird problem when there's no precedent?
And what started as a student activity for his classes evolved rapidly into a major publishing project which turned into a book, which turned into a report that was then forwarded to NASA and went to the Congress and has now been published in commercial form.
It's called the McDaniel Report and it represents that quintessential thing that everyone claims that we've needed For the last quarter century on this, namely, peer review.
Right.
Stan McDaniel had no axe to grind.
I didn't know him.
I have not yet met Stan McDaniel.
I have physically yet to stand in the same room with Dr. McDaniel.
As with most of the people that are involved in the independent teams.
He's met, I think, maybe two or three out of the couple of dozen that have been working on this over the years in various parts of the country and even the world.
McDaniel, in his own report, and I got it here in front of me because I want to be prepared tonight, In the latter part of his report, he says some very interesting things about questions relating to credibility and motivation of NASA.
On page 165 he says, NASA's behavior, remember this was written back in 93, published just before Mars Observer disappeared.
NASA's behavior over the last 17 years with respect to Cydonia landforms has created a serious question regarding its credibility and motivation.
Along with many other questionable actions on NASA's part documented herein, the June 1993 withdrawal of the statement that the face disappears in images of the same place taken at different lighting angles, followed by a NASA public information officer's assertions that no change in NASA's position was implied by this crucial omission, while at the same time admitting that NASA cannot identify the images is, in my opinion, a severe blow to NASA's credibility.
This is Stan McDaniel talking.
As NASA's credibility is seriously weakened, there is justifiable cause for public and scientific community to be deeply concerned about the possibility of data alteration or suppression.
And my question to Stan, if I could get him in the same studio tonight as you, would be simply, pursuant to that November 24th meeting, At NASA Headquarters with Carl Pilker.
Right.
What has changed, Dr. McDaniel?
Why do you now believe they're suddenly so upright and voiced out and honest when from your own work several years ago you had documented a trail of deception and weirdness that frankly caused him, in his summation, to claim on the eve of Mars Observer disappearance that NASA was about to commit the most egregious crime against science in the history of science by not dealing fairly with Cydonia.
What has really changed?
Did you ever see Planet of the Apes?
Of course.
Many times.
Do you remember why the apes hid the forbidden zone and wouldn't allow anybody to go out?
Um, I remember that incredible scene at the end with Heston and the Statue of Liberty.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's right.
They purposely, scientifically suppressed any evidence of any prior civilization because they had knowledge that that prior civilization had destroyed itself and they didn't want to resurrect that knowledge and start going down the same road again.
That was Planet of the Apes first part.
And, uh, I can't remember the doctor's name.
It'll come to me.
Uh, but he was the one in charge... He was played by Rodney McDowell.
Yeah.
Uh, he was, um, in charge of suppressing... No, no, that was McDowell's, uh, boss.
Yeah, that's right.
A professor or somebody or another.
Yeah, the head champ.
Yeah, that's right.
And... And, of course, it finally broke out, um, and we all remember what occurred with the movie, but the point is, could there be something I mean, in order to do what you're suggesting NASA might do with these photographs, there would have to be something equally threatening to all of mankind were it to be known.
Is that what you imagine motivates them to do this?
And if not, then what?
Alright, we have to divide the NASAs here.
See, I have been accused by some people of being extreme.
Who?
No.
Yes.
No.
Now, but I have never said what Dr. McDaniel said that I just quoted.
NASA is about to commit the most egregious crime against science in the history of science.
Well, that's what reminded me of the Planet of the Apes.
Right.
Well, what I have said, very specifically, what I said at our press conference the morning or two after Mars Observer disappeared five years ago, what I've consistently said on this show and all others, is that there is an element in NASA that is entrenched, that has been there since the beginning, that has power, resources, Is able to manipulate data, manipulate people, give the
illusion of honesty and openness, who in fact has been carrying out a duplicitous agenda from
the beginning.
But that most of NASA, most of the currently dwindling 20,000 employees,
of course, all the NASA setters are honest, are honest and clueless to the hidden agenda.
But even having said all of that, Richard, if the, um, if the deceit is coming from the very top,
then it's got to be for a reason of that magnitude, and if not, then what?
Well, there are two reasons.
One is a... I mean, this is a very bona fide line of questioning, and I'm heartened that you're thinking in the same direction, because frankly, this is the conclusion that I have moved toward as we have gotten more and more data.
Initially, as I said in Monuments, in my book, The Monuments of Mars, And by the way, I'm going to give a couple of commercials tonight for 800 numbers, because I think it's vital that people document the history of this, that they read the documentation, which my book is several hundred pages and thousands of footnotes and specific references, in order to understand the backdrop against which these images are now going to be or not to be taken.
So I will give out at the end of this hour, when you give me a little warning, an 800 number, and I will do that a couple more times, more frequently than I normally do, Because it's critical people do their own homework and come up to speed on this before it hits the you-know-what.
The issue of, are they protecting us from ourselves?
Are they protecting us from knowledge that we are not the first?
That we are heir to an extraordinary legacy, if they would let us know.
That some incredible catastrophe has overwhelmed Yes.
cycles of civilization and they're desperately concerned that it may happen again and the
way to keep you fat, dumb and happy and the stock market going up to the 9000 level is
simply never let you know.
In other words, if we're on the Titanic boys and girls, maybe the bridge doesn't want us
to know that.
Ah, and you keep leaning over the back end trying to read the name.
So, I mean, again, and we'll address this when, well, it's break time, so I'll ask you when we come back.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland, and the great debate is about to be settled, or become ever more controversial.
What do you think?
I'm Art Bell.
All this is Coast to Coast AM.
Joe Chouchouret, weekdays 2 to 5 on AM 1500 KSTV.
Moment of truth approaches.
Finally!
NASA is about to re-image Cydonia.
We now have a schedule.
NASA will attempt to re-image the Cydonia region April 5th at 12.33 AM, then post that photograph to the website at midday on April 6th.
Plenty of time.
Then again on April 14th at 12 18 p.m.
posted to the web on mid-afternoon of the same day, less time there.
And then finally April 23rd at 12 18 p.m.
posted by mid a.m.
on the 24th.
So we're about to, you know, we're about to find out the truth.
Maybe, maybe Richard C. Hoagland is my guest.
Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to NASA, and Walter Cronkite, winner of the Angstrom Science Award, and a man for, oh, I don't know, 20 years, who has been talking about the face on Mars.
Well, all the press in the world is contacting him now.
They will no doubt, as this image rolls in, they'll have cameras right in Richard's face waiting for Whatever it is he'll say.
It should be very interesting.
So we're talking to Richard tonight about that.
Face on Mars, of course.
Just think, folks.
Just five more days and we're going to have photographs that may settle the whole matter or not.
Get back to Richard.
By the way, on my website I have a number of new items.
Let me tell you what they are.
Number one, another storm is headed for our desert in the never-ending stream of storms from El Nino.
And so I took a weather satellite photograph earlier today and I've been promising to post one of those on the website, show you how it works.
I get about 20 or 30 of those a day if I want them.
So I took one late afternoon as the storm was rolling in.
And you'll see, you look at the state of Nevada there.
I just zoomed down to the southwest part of the country.
And you'll see the little asterisk that will mark Pahrump, Nevada.
And that's where my residence is.
And that's where you can see the storm approaching.
Then I've also put up there the Sarah McLendon news release.
Because so many people requested it.
Then earlier in the day, some fool sent me an alien in a jar, a little baby alien fetus swimming in this green liquid with a radiation stamp on the outside.
When my wife handed it to me, it scared the hell out of me at first, but I'm sure it's nothing more than a toy.
And then finally, I have posted instructions on how to build your own atomic bomb.
Now, I'm already reading email that starts out with a header like, Are you nuts?
Look, it's a humorous thing.
Learn my sense of humor.
Would I really post a way to make an atomic bomb up there?
No.
Besides, you can go to any library and figure it out for yourself.
It's a piece of humor.
Come on, people.
Get a life.
2-6-4-3-8.
Absolutely fresh flowers.
Now back to Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard, you're back on the air again.
We were talking about lost civilizations and a possible reason.
Well, in other words, let us update.
The audience at midnight in L.A.
joins.
That's true.
So you're suggesting that the pictures might be doctored.
Not that they absolutely will, but they might be.
And so I came back and I said, remember Planet of the Apes?
They were suppressing the information that there had been another civilization in order to protect the current civilization and I imagine that only such a reason of such magnitude could cause them to hide the information and I was asking you if that's what you believe.
Well it is one of the plausible suspicions for a pattern of behavior.
Remember I'm not alone in my deep distrust of this process.
Dr. McDaniel wrote this remarkable report where he chronicled and detailed in chapter and verse with documentation a litany of egregious violations of scientific protocols on this issue, going back to the original, almost attempted castration of DiPietro Molinar over simply standing up in front of a scientific body, the American Astronomical Society, and putting on photographs on the screen and saying, isn't this curious what we found?
And they got hit with everything.
They were accused of being con artists, of milking the press for money, of being hoaxers.
I mean, everything that could vilify these two individuals was done.
As a kind of a precursor to what's been done against me, which include now, of course, death threats, as we reported a couple weeks ago, you know, very strange things that have happened in the publishing cycles.
McDaniel and company have tried to present papers at various conferences and in various journals and have been turned down simply because the subject is taboo, because it's too contentious, it's too controversial.
This is not the way science should proceed.
So I am not alone in being suspicious.
What I would like to know now is why people like Dr. McDaniel have suddenly changed their tone a tad and believe that NASA, at least to my understanding, can be trusted without the implementation of all the protocols As part of that meeting in November, last November, apparently Dr. McDaniel and the others were able to present what's in essence on page 171 of his own document, which is recommendations.
Let me give a couple of highlights.
Sure.
Stan said, there presently exists, this is back in 93, a compelling ethical, legal and political obligation for the government of the United States through NASA's Mars Exploration Program To obtain new high-resolution photographs of the Cydonia landforms in order to settle the presently open question of knowledge which these photographs are potentially capable of deciding.
To implement the carrying out of NASA's legal, scientific, and ethical responsibilities, I, Stan McDaniel, recommend that the following minimum steps be used and ensured by executive order or by an immediate action of congressional oversight.
These recommendations apply to the Mars Observer mission in the event the spacecraft is recovered, and to any future missions, including a mission specifically to replace the Mars Observer.
And then he went down through half a dozen recommendations, including, you know, publication of the photography schedule, you know, creation of an orbit that would allow reasonable re-photography, placing the imaging data in public archives as soon as practicable, Within a few hours, certainly, you know, qualifies for that.
So far they have always, they've done all of it.
Well, they've done all but one, and this is the one which is the most important.
And that would be?
He said, that a blue-ribbon interdisciplinary panel of independent scientists and laypersons be appointed to inquire into the circumstances surrounding NASA's questionable behavior with regard to the Cydonia landforms in particular, and NASA's concept of SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence methodology, with respect to the solar system, particularly Mars and the Moon.
Among the panel's charges should be the undertaking of an unbiased scientific evaluation of the data gathered by the independent researchers to date, and an oversight committee to monitor NASA's compliance with the additional recommendations set forth below.
And then he said, as members of such an oversight committee, independent researchers Vince DiPietro, Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, and Richard C. Hogan, representing the three main lines of approach to the subject, should be included.
Now, my name notwithstanding, the critical failure of this entire process is that there is no independent monitoring of what Michael Malin is up to tonight or in the next month.
And because of his avowed egregious bias against the whole artificial hypothesis, As testified on your own program a couple weeks ago by McDaniel and Carlisle, remember how they were discussing that he had literally misrepresented several key facts on his website?
Yes.
The fact that NASA, that headquarters, that Carl Pilker, that Dan Golden, that nobody there has taken the appropriate steps to ensure the independent oversight of the process, of the protocols, Okay, okay, okay.
But again, I want to ask my question.
Uh, if you're going to presume that they may, uh, based on history that you have quoted, uh, or that's documented, that they're going to fake these, I again ask, with all hopes of getting an answer, Why would they do this?
What possible motivation would they have short of the Planet of the Apes scenario?
Well, that's speculation.
All we have to do is go on the track record, alright?
What they have been doing.
Okay, then speculate for me on why they have been doing it.
It's a really insane question.
There are two possible motivations.
And again, we're not talking all of NASA.
We're talking about a select group within the system.
Here we go.
Yes.
What are they?
Group number one basically has taken the Brookings admonitions to heart.
Here we go.
They believe that discovery of bona fide evidence of an extraterrestrial or proto-human civilization elsewhere in the solar system would lead to catastrophic demise of current late 20th century civilization.
Brookings said this back in 1959, and as I said to the Centers of Mercury News, There are documents that are significantly older than 30 plus years that we revere rather highly, like the Magna Carta, the Constitution, you know, the Old Testament.
There are some truths that live long beyond their authors.
And if, in fact, they were extremely upset at the prospect of confrontation with realities of extraterrestrial civilizations back in the late 50s, frankly, what's changed?
We are still an incredibly xenophobic species.
That's what I've been saying right along.
Alright.
That the Brookings Report is as... I'm arguing from the Brookings perspective.
...is as valid today as it was then.
So you would be with me, Art, in suspecting that since nothing really has changed, we have riots in the streets, we have, you know, Rwanda, we have, you know, Bosnia, we have, you know, the Cold War may be over, but there's a lot of people very efficiently killing a lot of other people on the planet, even as we speak tonight.
And if they are killing other people, it's simply mainly because those people are somehow perceived as different.
Now, Margaret Mead, who I worked with at the Hayden Planetarium, who was one of the cornerstones of the Brookings Report, was an eminent anthropologist.
She had cut her teeth, as the saying goes, in field anthropology in American Samoa.
From conversations I had with her in the halls of the American Museum at the Hayden, when I would kind of run into her, because she was avidly intrigued with space and we would talk about it many times.
Sure.
As she walked up and down the halls with that long cane of hers, it was a signature trademark.
The thing that struck me was how concerned she was over the fragility of Western civilization covering the, as a veneer of a more primitive, visceral, emotional, dark side underneath.
And how easily we could strip away the veneer if confronted with an intractable problem bigger than any policy makers had ever confronted.
In other words, if we found out we weren't king of the walk, or king of the hill, we would suffer, she felt, dramatic, almost a psychosis of depression.
And in Brookings, remember that it's cited that the most fragile element of human society, scientists and engineers, because their view of the universe is pretty unmalleable, they kind of have their set view of the way the laws of physics are supposed to work.
No, their careers and lives are based on what they have.
But it's deeper, it's philosophical, it's metaphorical and symbolic, where most people truly live.
And those symbols are so important in terms of how they perceive reality, that they're fundamentally threatened.
People will go into an abject denial rather than grapple with the problem.
And that's what I'm seeing now in this whole extraordinary opportunity.
Tonight, as we're talking about this art, I keep thinking in the back of my mind, we are literally poised on the edge of a stunning historical possibility.
If this system can somehow be made to be honest, if the American people can somehow get involved at a level beyond just sending faxes, then maybe we can determine all of future history In that we can liberate ourselves from the fear of the dark and walk into a sunlight where we actually know something more about ourselves and our neighborhood than we've known for a very long time.
Alright, here's another scenario, Richard, and it is that 20 or 30 years ago, the philosophical attitudes and expectations were as you stated, and the lie began then.
There are people who have built careers, people in government, people in the alphabet agencies, people in all kinds of powerful positions, who, once the lie has been laid down, are obligated to continue it, and they have continued it, and while they are alive, it cannot change.
Because their life, as they know it, would change if suddenly they had to come forward and say, well, yeah, we've been lying to you for 25 years or something.
Right?
Absolutely 100% right.
See, this is where Steven and I disagree.
Steve Bassett, alright?
Because Steve thinks we're on a railroad track to disclosure, and I think people would rather die than disclose because of exactly what you just outlined.
Yep.
There is too much at stake.
Too much has gone under the bridge and over the dam.
There are too many lies waiting behind closed doors to fall out.
If there's one major paradigm crack, And if those photographs, God help us, next week show real artifacts, the feeding frenzy around Monica Lewinsky will look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic.
You will find every closet, every secret, every agency hounded and demanded of anything they contain, not only in artifacts on the moon and Mars and other places, but the, you know, the U word we're not supposed to utter?
UFOs?
Yeah.
And what the government has been hiding on that score?
Well, you know what?
You just named one possible motivation for doing the unthinkable.
Releasing this information.
Wag the red planet.
Right?
Wag the red planet?
In other words, you're saying that Clinton may be in such deep trouble, the only way he can climb out of this hole and assure his presidency and history Yes.
as if in fact he does it about face and comes clean.
Yeah, exactly. Very good, Richard.
You know that took you a full three seconds.
I timed it.
You're usually much faster than that.
Wag the red planet. Exactly.
In other words, you set the whole thing up and you're really exactly right.
It is the one thing that would take the Lewinsky story and the whole scandal going on about sex in the White House
and make it as nothing.
Yes.
The problem is if the forces, the historical and philosophical and suppression forces,
which have manipulated us to this point tonight, are as powerful as I have been able to document.
Then, I don't think even Bill Clinton has the power to override it, no matter what his problems.
Because this is bigger than President Clinton.
Let me lay out one very disturbing trend.
We now know from Webb Hubble, from his book, Friends in High Places, that when the President and his administration came in, he asked for, from the closest, most trusted people around him, the answer to two critical questions.
What really happened to JFK?
Yep.
A man who he has modeled his life after.
And what's the truth about ET, UFO, etc.?
And anybody who doubts that should go to my website now and read the McClendon story, which we've got posted for you.
Okay?
Okay.
I mean, that is absolutely correct.
She reported it.
It's widely known now.
The President wanted to know about those two things.
When you look at the chronology, The thing that disturbs me mightily about this scenario you just laid out, that this would be Bill Clinton's access to history and it would make Lewinsky go away.
No, you laid it out.
I just jumped on it.
No, no.
We're both on the same page here.
The problem I have with that is that you have a president who now we know, from one of his most trusted friends, was avidly interested in both these areas.
And when he began to take actual action, Sending Hubble out to NORAD.
Right.
Sending him to the Justice Department.
Opening files.
He may have sent them over to NASA, but I don't think so.
I know that we had our entree to the Clinton White House rebuffed in very strange ways after initially an open door.
Yeah, I remember that.
You called me, uh, this was another off-air conversation one day, and you said, my God, doors at the White House are opening.
Yep.
Well, it all stopped on July 20th, 1993.
What happened July 20th, 1993, Art?
I should be able to remember July 20th.
It's always July 20th.
It's always July 20th.
Very good.
Vince Foster was killed.
Oh, that's right.
It is my contention that Vince Foster was murdered having nothing to do with Whitewater, but as a message to this president to lay off.
And everything that has been possible to come down on an administration From AK-47s, to Piper Cubs, to C-130s, to the Lewinsky stuff, to the Paula Jones stuff, to stewardess now and former Miss Americas, you name it, has been thrown at this man because he dared to ask those two questions.
That's my theory as to why we are here tonight.
Cool theory.
You know, uh, we should speculate a little bit when we come back about If we don't get the straight stuff, what are we getting?
In other words, are they pre-preparing photographs that will be downloaded that we will then see on the web?
Or will they download real photographs and change those photographs, modify them, so that we cannot see what we need to see?
And that's what we'll ask when we get back.
And you might as well go all the way out on a limb, right?
How are they gonna do it?
What are they gonna do?
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Coast to Coast AM.
Only true love I said, what would you say
That we're calling you a writing song A labyrinth
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From the Kingdom of Nigh This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell
First-time callers may reach our area code 702-727-1222.
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Now, here again is Art.
Once again, here I am.
Good morning.
Richard C. Hoagland is here, and he'll be right back.
You know, when the IRS faces a taxpayer, the IRS He wins 85% of the time.
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Okey-doke.
Richard C. Holman once again.
Richard, just before we get into how they might do this, here's a fax from Jeff who lays it right on you.
He says, Sounds like Hoagland is having his bluff called, and now he's already trying to find a way to wiggle out.
I mean, I just don't get it.
Here he is, finally getting what he wanted, and he's automatically trying to set people up for the pictures to be a hoax, seems to me.
This is the way he will have an escape route if pictures turn out to show a big pile of rocks.
From Jeff in Memphis, Tennessee.
Okay, Jeff.
The problem is I've been quoting Dr. Stan McDaniel all evening from a report, a scathing indictment of the protocols and the ethics of this agency going back to the beginning of this, back in 76.
I haven't been basically talking for myself at all.
It's Dr. McDaniel who was calling into question the protocols, the ethics, and the procedures.
And what I'm saying is, look, as in any other area of science, if the test is not fair, what's the point?
And in terms of assuring a fair test, given the incredible contentiousness of the issue in question, shouldn't we ask a few appropriate questions about how fair the test might be?
I'm sure you would really like to know the answer, as I would.
And I certainly don't intend to subject, you know, all the years of my own work and my colleagues' work to a bias test where someone or someones within this agency can claim Oh look, it's all just a pile of rocks and we all go away and, you know, go back to our day jobs.
That would not be of benefit to the American people, or to the system, to the Constitution, to the protocols of science, or to the pursuit of truth, would it?
No.
Let's now say the worst occurs and the photos are bogus.
How would you do it, Richard, if... It's interesting to ask you to put yourself in Malin's position.
If you were Malin and you wanted to fake the photographs, how would you do it?
Well, remember, it doesn't have to be Dr. Malin.
I don't want to single out Malin to be the heavy here.
Well, he's the guy who's going to get the pictures, right?
Well, but he is only one of a chain.
All right, all right, all right, all right.
So you're a nameless, faceless shadow Before we do that, I want to announce this 800 number.
Because if people want the background of this, we can't even cover it in five hours on the Art Bell Show.
You need to get the monuments of Mars.
You need to get the videos of the various NASA briefings I've been invited, along with
my colleagues, over the years to present in the front door to this space agency, to the
rank and file, three times at NASA Lewis alone, to the UN, and including the presentation
we did last year in Phoenix, which is now in editing and in production.
The 800 number for all of that material, focusing particularly on the book, because that's where
it's carefully and heavily documented.
Monuments of Mars can be gotten at 1-888-338-8581.
That's an 800 number.
It's 1-888, toll free, 3-38-8581, and there literally are operators standing by tonight.
This is in Seattle, at another one of our centers, because the issue is that important.
The people really want to understand the background, they need to do their homework, and they need
to see what this agency has done with their space program over the last 35 years.
Now let me get to the issue at hand, okay?
Yes.
If you like this video, please subscribe to my channel.
In McDaniel's report, and I am answering your question, but I want to do it my way if I may please, okay?
Of course.
In McDaniel's report on page 166, he has a section titled, The Wolpe Accusation.
Quoting McDaniel, in February 1992, newspapers reported charges made against NASA by Representative Howard Wolpe, Democrat from Michigan.
Wolpe released what was reported to be an internal NASA document titled, quote, Suggestions for anticipating requests under Freedom of Information Act.
NASA employees were apparently encouraged to destroy drafts of documents where possible, to print rather than use their own handwriting in order to make the source of the annotation less easy to determine, to rewrite original notes in a less than informative manner, quote, and then destroy your old notes, And to avoid putting cross-references in documents so as to minimize tracking of a discussion.
It was also suggested, McDaniel goes on, that employees make annotations using yellow stick-on tabs, you know, post-its, instead of writing directly on the margins of a document.
If the documents were requested, the stick-ons could be removed from their original positions on the document and stuck on another sheet of paper in an order that would make it impossible To tell what portion of the original document they came from.
Another Dodd suggested was to involve an attorney immediately with any documents that might potentially be controversial on the grounds that an attorney's participation in the preparation of particular documents may serve as an additional basis for asserting that they are exempt from FOIA based on a claim of attorney work product privilege.
And on and on.
This was an official memo, Art, from the director of the NASA Lewis Research Center.
Alright, but that applied to, uh, specific existing data.
Now, with respect to pictures that are going to be taken and then released within hours or a day of their taking, my question was, how would this nameless, faceless, unidentifiable person fake it?
Okay.
What we're probably not discussing here is altering the photographs coming back from our surveyor.
Because the time constraints, even with a supercomputer, simply would not allow the preparation of an adequate fake.
If the photographs are actually going to be presented as real, but are not going to be real, the only logical alternative is they have to come from a prior mission to Mars.
And the mission that I have targeted as potentially suspect is the mission that ostensibly failed to disappear, i.e., the so-called missing Mars observer.
In Monuments, in my book, I document with memos and chronologies and witness testimony that came to us after our press conference.
But Richard, we know that spacecraft was destroyed.
I saw the cartoon.
It spun out of control.
Yes, you saw this incredibly expensive, elaborate computer graphic, didn't you?
Yeah.
Were you there?
I mean, Mars Observer was the first mission in NASA's history where a specific command was sent to the spacecraft to turn off the transmitter back to Earth before a key set of mission instructions were carried out.
Which means the engineers back here on Earth were basically guessing.
Their guesses about what happened to Mars Observer were as good as yours and mine because they had no data.
Someone writing the instructions for the mission.
Then why have another mission?
to turn off that radio so there would be no data.
And it would be totally speculation for the next century or two centuries or however long.
Then why have another mission?
In other words, if they took photographs that confirmed their worst fears
and they decided they were going to keep it all secret, why have any more missions after that?
Well, remember, you have a planetary science community, which is kind of like a welfare program for aerospace
engineers and scientists.
You have a constituency with lobbying capability on Capitol Hill.
You have various contracting capabilities around the country.
You know, aerospace companies and, you know, contracts for production of hardware and all that.
There is an infrastructure, a forcing infrastructure to have a space program.
Kind of like a make work space program.
My contention is that we've had two tiers of the NASA program.
We've had the real program where the really good stuff is kept secret by some.
And then we've had other data released generally to the community, to the engineers, to the American people, to the world, as a kind of a, this is what your tax dollars are paying for.
And in fact, in the wake of the loss of Mars Observer, there was a tremendous hue and cry by the scientists who had legitimate experiments, you know, the laser altimeter and the radar and all those, to get a replacement mission.
The fact is that if the Mars Observer did not disappear, if it was taken stealth as four independent engineers who called me from JPL in the days following the disappearance claimed, people who didn't know each other, who didn't know that I was talking to other people from JPL, if, but unfortunately would not go on 20-20 with me and make this assertion in public, right?
If those people are... Oh great, you get heavy evidence and you go to 20-20, not my show, huh?
Remember, it's pictures, it's television art, come on.
Um, the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't do any of that.
They wouldn't even come on your show.
Fine, let's give them a voice changer.
We'll put them on my radio show.
Well, I tried this with the Mars Pathfinder.
I was that close to getting secret pictures taken from inside.
And at the last minute, those meetings dissolved because these people are scared.
Right.
Now, what are they scared of?
Are they scared of losing their jobs?
Are they scared of something more interesting?
I do not know.
That would be speculation.
The point is, they are scared.
What they did tell us in 93, When Mars Observer disappeared, that it did not really disappear, that this was a hoax, this was a camouflage mission, that in fact most of NASA thought that it had disappeared, which is why there was a great furor and sobbing and wailing and gnashing of teeth and all that.
If that spacecraft did not disappear, remember Malin's reversals, hear the lie with Satellite 7.
He has had then five years to work on images of Cydonia.
And what he can then do, Art, is to simply, with sleight of hand, replace them in the
data stream when no one's looking, because no one is looking.
The fact that my friend David Perlman could write a stupid piece like that, indicating
that when he talked to headquarters, they said, this is just nonsense, we're just throwing
a bone to these idiots, and when we take the pictures and there's nothing there, they'll
Yeah.
It's indication to me that there's none of the honest people minding the store.
Tonight, tomorrow night, the next night, the 5th, the 14th, the 23rd.
Which means that if Malin and company, this little dedicated priesthood, who think that they're lineal descendants of something out of ancient Egypt.
No, no.
If they are operating without constraint and without oversight, because there's no protocol to oversee them, Then the fake will succeed.
Alright.
What would you consider just off of, you know, shooting from the hip tonight?
What are the odds that we will get genuine photographs?
I have no way of knowing that.
I really don't.
Look, I am trying to deal with this very seriously.
I know.
I'm trying to lay out to the American people tonight the extraordinary possibility that yes, we could get honest data, but it's not going to happen just because we want it.
Just because we wish it.
It's only going to happen if we apply ourselves and I'm going to announce in the next few minutes a mechanism that we have come up with here at Enterprise that may in fact up the odds that we get real honest pictures.
That's the announcement I'm going to make in the next few minutes.
Something we can do.
You're going to want an absolute live download?
I'm guessing.
No.
No, because you're not going to get that.
There are technical constraints to converting those at that line stage when you push room camera into live images.
You don't need that.
What you need is documentation of the paper trail.
You need documentation of all of the technical aspects of this data from the camera taking the pictures to them being put on the tape recorder in the spacecraft To them being transmitted to Earth, to Goldstone, to being transmitted over the mountains by that microwave link that I've ridden under many, many, many times, to them going into the computers of JPL, being sent down the pipeline to Malin's separate laboratory, 200 miles away from JPL, down in San Diego, without a planetary scientist in sight, or any other NASA people, to where he then ships them back up to JPL, where they're put on the web.
In that long, torturous link, Many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, and the stakes here are immense.
What about this scenario, Richard?
The pictures come down in five days, and they show unambiguously an object that is not natural.
And then you owe them an apology?
No.
No.
Let me tell you the problem there.
Okay.
The problem there is, do we believe the picture?
In other words, I am demanding an annotation of the protocols regardless of what these pictures show us.
My erstwhile friend Carl Sagan... So you're not prepared to be happy with them either way?
No!
Because there's no documentation!
Science is not science unless you document the process.
We have an enormous industry in this country.
It's called the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Right?
Right.
And it oversees nuclear reactors and disposal of radioactive waste and all that.
And this whole Hanford problem was on, you know, Jennings the other night, is evidence that the protocols have been violated even though they were incredibly stringent.
Mm-hmm.
Enormous amounts of treasure and manpower and documentation have been expended to try to keep track of plutonium all around the country.
Because of the potential for doing what's on your website.
You know, building your garage atomic bomb.
The fact of the matter is that even with all those protocols, we have how many hundred pounds of plutonium missing tonight?
That can't be accounted for?
And that's when we really give a damn!
It's obvious the agency around this issue does not give a damn, because there are no protocols in place to guarantee that if the answer is yes, they're artifacts, the world will believe NASA.
You mean to tell me that in the history of science NASA's gonna say, Oh gosh, we found artifacts!
And you're just going to have to believe us because we can't document how we got that data.
In other words, regardless of the answer, the process is fatally flawed.
So my major announcement has to do with a remedial procedure which will involve your audience and a lot more Americans in remedying the failure of the process.
Alright, make it.
What is it that would make you happy?
What would make me happy is if they had adopted all of McDaniel's recommendations, including an independent team of observers and technically qualified engineers to monitor every critical step in this process.
Simply because, on the record, Dr. Malin has demonstrated such an extraordinary bias against the intelligence hypothesis.
Okay.
But we've got to assume it's too late for that now.
Yeah, which means we have to trust something else, alright?
What I would like to see, if I could wave a magic wand tonight, I would like to see all the honest people in the system, which outweigh the mailers, you know, 90-10, okay?
Getting involved.
Watching what's going on.
Uh, when I was at the Cape, you know, when they tried to throw me off the Cape at the launch of Mars Surveyor last year.
How could I forget?
By the way, we don't necessarily want to imply that Malin is dishonest.
No, we don't.
We'll use that on all the honest people on the other side of Malin.
When I say honest, I mean who have not had a demonstrated bias.
Michael Malin is on record as published with a demonstrated bias, and McDaniel and Carlotto attested to that the other night on your program.
Alright?
He has manipulated data on his website.
He has said things that are not true, and therefore I qualify him as a biased individual.
On record.
Well, he said some of the data may be incomplete or not accurate.
No, no, no.
I'm talking about his discussion of previous Viking Cydonia catastrophe.
Right.
I'm talking about his website.
No, I'm talking about how he has dealt with the whole Cydonia issue from the get-go.
All right.
And the details of that are on Malin's website, as well as on McDaniel's website, and are available through your website And Enterprise mission website.
Oh, yes.
So if you want to find out what this is all about and you're just hearing it for the first time, you go to Art Bell's site, www.artbell.com.
There are links down there on the guest page for me tonight, which will take you to Enterprise.
It will take you to Malin.
It will take you to McDaniel.
You can see the full epistemological debate in all its glory if you really want to get to the nitty gritty.
If you want to know the history of this, you call 888-338-8581 and get monuments and all
these tapes we've been asked to do by NASA over the years.
And you do your homework and you come up to speed that way.
But if you're going to assess whether we're going to get honest data, you've got to understand that the devil is in the details, as Ross used to say.
And the details here have not been covered in terms of protocol, in terms of monitoring.
So what can we do?
If the honest people at NASA listening to me tonight care about the future of this agency, they dare not let anybody with an ulterior motive get away.
They really need to watch the process.
When I was on the mound at the press site at the Cape last year, I and some of my colleagues at that point, the camera crew we brought down with us, were given a lift across town, across the Cape to the press site on Merritt Island, where I used to work with Walter, by a member of the Mars Surveyor Team, who happened to be a computer expert.
And he and I had a chance for an hour in the traffic jam going across the Air Force part of the Cape, To discuss the idea of protocols.
And I basically said to him that what we needed were honest people looking over Malin's shoulders at every step of the process who understand how this could be rigged and are simply watching so it cannot happen.
Okay.
Well, here's the thing, though, Richard.
Uh, if we are to imagine a conspiracy the size of the one you are describing... It does not take that many people, Art.
This is the O.G.
Palace.
That's fine.
Stay with me.
It only takes a few.
I understand.
Nobody else gives a damn.
I understand.
I acknowledge that.
If we are to imagine a conspiracy as small as you imagine it to be... You do it.
Um, then you must also imagine it is extremely Sophisticated.
So that, um, certainly if they wanted to fake the photographs, they would get it done without the average, honest NASA console worker having the slightest idea of what occurred.
Richard, we're gonna have to pick this up on the other side of the news coming up next.
We will pick up on that exact point.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
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Running every time, beautiful things that take your time.
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Watch it in slow motion as you turn around today.
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Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh on the Wildcard line at area codes
That's area code 702-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is.
Good morning, everybody.
727-1295. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is. Good morning everybody. Well, this is indeed a special night.
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And yet when I look at them, they act as though I can't see them.
Now that may be conditioning on their part.
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Alright.
Back now to Richard C. Hoagland, and here's where we were.
If there is a small, tight cabal of people who have been keeping this information from us for a very long time, one must assume that this is a sophisticated group with sophisticated means for doing what they need to get done.
So calling on all of the honest console-sitting NASA types To watch very carefully and be sure nothing undored occurs as these photographs come down, seems to me to be insufficient because if it is sophisticated enough, these guys aren't ever going to know it.
Isn't that true?
Not really.
The way this works is, it's basically the apathy principle.
The way chicanery like this operates, and since I've now studied the NASA system and I've had many people Former NASA people on your show, people like Ken Johnston and Marv Zarnik and others, you know that they have described to you a process where people are kept so busy that they really don't have time to look around and wonder about what's going on next to them.
Sure.
Number one.
Number two, it's really the buddy principle.
I mean, you're operating in an agency where the mantra is, everything we do is honest.
Everything we do is honest.
Everything is open.
If there's no inculcated suspicion, You know, when you're working at the Treasury, when you're making, you know, $100, $1,000 notes, there's a certain suspicion that when someone takes a briefcase out at night, maybe somebody should look in the briefcase.
When you work at NASA, nobody cares what's in your briefcase, because you're probably taking home work and you're working, you know, five hours more than you really are being paid for because people love their job.
That's how we got to the moon.
The problem is you're dealing with a system where it's like that famous Star Trek, a sheep in the fold.
Or a wolf in the fold?
If you have a few bad apples in the barrel, and they have a different agenda than everybody else, and they're in a system where trust and honesty is the watchword, then they can get away with almost murder, because no one is suspicious.
What I want the honest folks to do at NASA tonight is to say, look, this is a 20-year-old, a whole generational mystery, why don't we get a little suspicious?
Why don't we actually track the process?
And this is what I'm concerned about, alright?
There is no, this is kind of like breaking out of a bank.
You know, bank vaults are meant that you can't break into them.
Right.
But nobody cares if you break out.
They have handles on the inside so you can open the door.
That's logic.
What Malin or someone in his control could do, not will do, but could do, is have prepared these pictures from Mars Observer, which wasn't lost five years ago, And uplink them to this spacecraft, unbeknownst to anybody.
So that they would download and go honestly through the system?
They put them on the tape recorder, and when the commands are given, you know, then they come back down.
Now, that can only happen if nobody's watching the numbers.
Because computers operate with numbers.
When Malin's reversal the other night said, we deceive our ships with little blank, David and I think that might be a clue to how Malin plans to do this, if he plans to do this at all.
Because the way you deceive a computer is you simply give it the wrong code.
In other words, instead of uploading instructions to have the camera actually take the pictures at 12.33 next Sunday morning in the pre-dawn hours, which by the way is 3.33 Washington time, 3.33, they're right on symbolic schedule, okay?
He sends the computer command to have the camera pretend to take the pictures.
All it takes is a couple of zeros and ones in the wrong place, and the instructions casually will look like they're supposed to, but they are.
Richard, if this really has... if what you are describing now has been done...
Then they've got you.
Forget it.
These, uh, pictures are already sitting in buffers, waiting.
And, uh, as you point out, they will simply issue an instruction to dump the buffers.
Okay.
And we'll get what they've already cooked up.
If that happens, forget it.
There's no doubt a console is going to be able to save you.
Well, now wait a minute.
Let's track through the process.
We've got three opportunities in this month, right?
Let's assume the pictures come down.
And we look at them and they don't show any of the things we expect if the intelligence hypothesis is correct.
Yes.
Maybe not the lawn furniture, but certainly an extraordinary, complicated geometry and high resolution if we get the city or we get the fort or we get the DNM or something like that.
Right.
And Carlotto is one of the people who's going to be looking with an eagle eye, right?
And one of the things, one of the tests he's going to apply is this fractal We've got two more opportunities.
which is comparison of self-similarity.
Now we presume that if they planned a hoax, they're going to have factored that in
because they will have had five years to do it.
So there are things we can look at and there's some qualitative judgments we can make.
And let's assume that we don't like what we see.
And we get on NBC or CNN or on your show and we say, this is what we find wrong.
We got two more opportunities.
At this point, everybody's really ginned up and they're really on the edge of their chairs
and the honest guys are now a little more energized and they're really watching the system.
They're watching the process.
Alright?
That's one of the things that I think could be a plausible scenario.
That maybe the first images will not show anything interesting, but the second image is if we are all vigilant, they may not be able to pull it off twice because too many people are going to be looking.
That's why the three is very important here.
The real ace in the hole is my announcement, all right?
So let me get to my announcement, and then we can get on with more interesting part of the show.
By all means.
Okay.
I am taking my cue from Dr. McDaniel, who in his recommendations said, and I quote from page 171 of his document, there presently exists a compelling ethical, legal, and political obligation for the government of the United States, through NASA's Mars Exploration Program, to obtain new high-resolution photographs of the Cydonia landforms.
The key operative phrase there is the legal obligation.
Everybody has wanted to know, Art, why I have moved to New Mexico.
I'm going to now announce tonight why I am living in New Mexico.
Okay.
Why I moved the Enterprise mission to New Mexico.
Why, why, why?
It turns out, courtesy of one of our colleagues, Gary Tomlinson, that New Mexico is one of only two states in the entire union of 50 states.
Where I, if I request of 2% of the elected voters, can independently and privately convene a grand jury.
Which means, I would have the equivalent subpoena power, through the appropriate legal process, in this state, in this county, Sandoval County, of Ken Starr.
Which means, if the honest folks do not police NASA, I am guaranteeing them tonight, That under Article 2, Section 14 of the Constitution of the State of New Mexico, which I'm going to read to you, alright?
It says, and I quote, until otherwise prescribed by law, a grand jury shall be composed of twelve in number, of which eight must concur in finding an indictment.
A grand jury shall be convened upon order of a judge of a court, empowered to try And determine cases of capital, felonious, or infamous crimes at such times as to him shall be deemed necessary.
Or, and this is the operative part, a grand jury shall be ordered to convene by such judge upon the filing of a petition therefore signed by not less than the greater of 200 registered voters Or 2% of the registered voters of the county.
And that is the provision you are obviously interested in.
The only other state in the union which has this provision in its constitution is Oklahoma.
And it is that state tonight that has convened two grand juries to investigate the Oklahoma City bombing.
To investigate the potential suborning of perjury and the strangeness of the McVeigh trial in contravention of the state constitution.
That is why we are here, and it is that power which the people of this state will confer upon us, not me, myself alone.
And if we ask for signatures, do you think it will take us more than ten or twenty minutes to get enough signatures, Art?
No, you'd probably get them, but suppose you got your grand jury, Richard.
You would then have to prove to eight of those twelve that there was sufficient cause to believe that Some nameless, faceless person.
Ah, but the power of a grand jury is that it can subpoena, it can order documentation, it can order witnesses under compunction of perjury.
In other words, it has the legal authority of the Constitution of the United States of America to get at the truth.
And I am guaranteeing you that if those pictures, at the end of the process, do not conform to the protocols of accepted science, meaning we have some You will seek an indictment.
This is an honest process.
Yes.
You will seek an indictment.
I will seek an indictment of those who are responsible for concealing the truth from
us and we will get to the bottom of it.
Now, let's assume on the other side of the coin that the photographs show extraordinarily
weird artifacts.
Yes.
That everybody basically looks and scratches their heads and says, well, geology can't
do that.
I would then ask, request that Bill Clinton or the Congress appoint an independent panel
to verify the authenticity of those photographs.
Well, if that happened, I don't think you would have to ask for that.
I think that that is something Bill Clinton would do.
Well, it just has to be done, because you can't leave this ambiguously hanging in the
air like it has for the last generation.
All right, just let me backtrack a little.
Let me give you one more thought.
Sure.
On our website, your site and the Enterprise site, there are links to the Lexus legal service that go directly to the state constitution so people can read these provisions of the law for themselves.
All right, that's good.
I absolutely believe you that it is so and that you would try to do it.
Nothing cannot be documented.
This is too important.
I was waiting for Richard to expand on this, but if he wonders why McDaniel has, at least in one respect, changed his position, I'm very familiar with the aforementioned report, I believe he knows McDaniel.
Why doesn't he just fax or call McDaniel and ask him?
Because Stan McDaniel does not like the fact that I am, quote, too extreme.
I see.
I mean, politically, we've had a bit of a falling out.
I support Stan's ethics.
I support his integrity.
I simply think he isn't pushing the envelope far enough because this is push-come-to-shove time.
And honest men can disagree about protocols.
The very fact is that McDaniel, who was arguing that there are legal obligations, is very unhappy tonight that I was going to go on your show and basically discuss the options, the possibilities of convening a grand jury under the Constitution to pursue the truth of this matter.
The very man who said there was a legal opportunity and an obligation is shrinking from the fact that we might use it.
And that's because he has a different set of obligations than I do.
I see.
I have put myself on the line for 15 years in pursuit of truth.
Remember, if we convene a grand jury, I'm not going to be running it.
It will be operated under the laws of the state of New Mexico.
There will be, you know, a district attorney.
There will be the governor involved.
There will be judges.
There will be court.
There will be citizens.
Who are asked to serve as grand jurors.
All I will be able to do, along with any other supplicant to the court, will be to provide evidence.
But this will be a truly democratic and legal-based process under the laws of the United States.
And if we have to go to that measure, thank God I live in a state where Enterprise can actually use that as a court of last resort.
And what I'm hoping is that everyone listening to us tonight will call friends and relatives in New Mexico And alert them to this possibility and say, finally, there's something we can do.
We don't have to take their word.
Well, you, of course, are being heard widely in New Mexico right now, as you well know.
That's correct.
See, I see this as a participatory process all across the country.
It's only Oklahoma and New Mexico that have the provision in the Constitution.
Frankly, I think it would be something that would be useful in the other 48 states.
But, of course, that's beyond the scope of tonight's show.
Well, you have, to some degree, rendered my next question inoperative.
But a lot of people have written saying, is it not possible that others, that is, others with large satellite dishes and so forth, might intercept the download from the spacecraft?
But, of course, if you are thinking that that is already a done deal sitting up there in buffers waiting to be dumped, then that would prove nothing.
No, it would prove nothing.
If this is being done, this is not being done on a shoestring, alright?
And remember, I have documented, in major part on your show, over years, the torturous trail of real evidence versus fake evidence, beginning with Mars, extending to the Moon, now looking at, you know, the symbology of landings, of this inner brotherhood that somehow thinks it's connected to Egypt.
All of this has to be viewed tonight as a backdrop to this extraordinary opportunity.
But the honest folks outweigh the others.
I keep coming back to that.
And the fact that we've got a NASA Tonight, at least titularly going through the motions of doing this by the book, is light years ahead of where we were a week ago.
What I'm saying is, the honest folks listening to me tonight should pay very close attention And take this very seriously, otherwise a lot of doors and a lot of closets are going to be opened because there is a legal process now operative in this state whereby we can finally get to the truth.
So you're actually threatening to take them to court?
It's not a threat.
It's simply redress of grievances from government.
It's kind of very Jeffersonian.
William Jefferson Clinton, are you listening?
Well, it's kind of like a threat.
It's kind of like saying, uh, give us bogus information and, uh, we're going to convene a grand jury and try and indict you.
Now, if I miss something there, tell me.
Well, ultimately, what is the recourse of citizens under the Constitution?
Oh, that's it, all right.
And we have not had a mechanism, and I am very grateful to two people, Stan McDaniel for pointing out the legal obligations of NASA years ago, And to Gary Tomlinson for discovering, to our astonishment, that of all the states of the Union, New Mexico has this provision.
And it has it for a reason.
By the way, it was signed into law on January 21, 1911, which on the Egyptian calendar is 19.5.
Naturally.
So you're really going to do that?
Art, I never bluff.
Not on this issue.
This is important.
How many times must I say it?
Do you really think that I've had nothing better to do for 15 years but twiddle my thumbs to come up to where they can fake it and say, okay, go home boys and girls, it was all a sham?
That is not going to happen.
Alright.
Are you ready to face the people that have been listening to all this and see what they have to say?
Um, how much time do we have to the end of the hour?
Well, it's the end of the half hour now, so, you know... Okay, we'll have a show of more little things.
Alright, let's do that and then we'll get to the audience.
We'll be right back.
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If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Night, send it to him at...
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Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now, here again is Art.
Indicting NASA.
727-8499. Please limit your faxes to one or two pages. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now, here again is Art. Indicting NASA. Wow. We'll get back to Richard in a moment.
Hopefully your calls shortly.
You've got nothing to lose but the pain.
Alright, back now to Richard C. Hoagland in New Mexico.
And by the way, I can hear in my headphones, I get this little tiny buzz when it rains.
The rain has begun here in the desert.
Which already is turning lush and green, as it ought not be.
Richard, um... The rain in Spain falls mainly on the satellite antenna.
Yeah.
That's it, alright.
God, I'm sick of rain, Richard.
I'm really sick of it.
We've had snow, actually.
We're in the higher desert, so what do you expect?
Yeah.
Listen, um, alright.
You've got a couple things you want to cover.
I want to get some callers on the line.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Let me do a couple things.
One is, let me give out the 800 number for people who want to See, the documented story of how we got here tonight is it's critically important to assessing where we're going.
Alright.
888-338-8581.
888-338-8581.
That's the Monuments of Mars is available there.
The video series, you know, our NASA presentations, our UN presentation, Ohio State, and soon to come the Phoenix video.
It's really important that we take this opportunity as seriously as it is presented.
And that's my caveat with NASA Tonight.
From Dave Perlman's, you know, article, and from some of the other news coverage I've seen, the NASA people on the inside, when reporters called them, it's snicker, snicker, snicker.
And I'm telling you that if that's what's going to go down, there's a very interesting light at the end of the tunnel,
and it's in the Constitution of the state of New Mexico.
Okay.
My other point.
Yes.
We were talking before about reasons for cover-up. The big reason.
The covering up that we're part of a cyclic civilization of rise and fall, rise and fall, destruction and reassembly,
destruction and reassembly.
Assembly.
Part of the fallout of the last 15 years of me doing this, of the team and the One of the offshoots of that, one of the critical offshoots, is that if this planet is prone to catastrophe, if the things that you document in your own book are at the quickening, that you had innumerable programs on, did you notice what American Airlines decided to do just yesterday?
What?
Demand by law that seatbelts be retained for the duration of the flight.
Well, that's because so many people have bopped their heads during turbulence.
But why are they bopping their heads with turbulence?
Well, because there's a lot of turbulence.
The physics of atmospheric interactions is changing.
All of the things that you've documented on your show over the last several years, earthquakes, weird migrations, money, weather, all of this, is predicted in the hyper-dimensional model, and we need to do a show one night devoted solely to the details and specifics of this physics and how those predictions are coming true, including the slowdown of the Earth.
I would love to do that.
We need to really focus on that and give enough time so I can get into the details, the nitty-gritty.
All right.
Richard?
Let me give one important thing tonight.
Part of the physics, part of the serendipitous discoveries that I have made as part of this search, Which would be proven if the artifacts on Mars are incontrovertibly tested and found to be artificial.
Is specific, talented individuals, who I have discovered over the last five years, Art, literally can work with this physics in their mind.
And one of them I want to do a show with you very soon.
Her name is Mary Ann Casio-Chenefield.
And she is working tonight with, among others, Dr. Robert Gallo.
Applying this hyper-dimensional physics of the mind to some of his modalities in clinical trials with things like Berez drops with people who have HIV and cancer.
Well, I know what they're... they're working on an enzyme, I think, that comes from the urine of pregnant women.
That's a... that's a separate protocol.
This is a... this is another discussion, all right?
Okay.
And... and Shenefield is working with Gallo and other people And I would like to do a show with her and the people from the hospital and me and you to basically attack the human part of the equation.
People say to me often, why should we care if there are ruins on Mars?
Who the hell cares?
Oh no, there's lots of... I'm not one of those.
But I do want to say this, Richard, look.
I, for years, have been posting photographs on my website.
Some genuine, some BS.
But it doesn't matter.
What I have found is that no matter how genuine the photograph, Um, there is never, ever, ever agreement on its legitimacy.
I mean, people, um, we've got experts all over.
I did it with AR, and I applied Adobe Photoshop to your picture, and it's obviously a fake because pixel number 474 has a shadow on the right-hand side, and there's just never gonna be agreement on this kind of thing.
Now, can you address that issue?
Yeah, because there's no documentation.
Look, if you're doing real science in the real world, you know, the big world, the grown-up world, not high school, not kindergarten, where the UFO community has been mired in for decades, there has to be an accepted set of protocols.
If NASA does not provide those protocols willingly, if they don't put honest observers at every key doorway and every key computer and watch the damn stuff and make sure that every computer record is saved, then the grand jury will simply go in and subpoena everybody in sight and demand that information.
And the honest folks are not going to stand by and be indicted while the guilty folks go free.
Well, that'll be a hell of a show.
I'll give you that.
It will not be a show.
It will be what the Constitution calls for.
When McDaniel said... Well, the Constitution... NASA had legal obligations.
Yeah.
When I say show, I mean... I mean it.
I mean... a big event.
It will be a major event, and it's as major as the issue we're trying to resolve.
Getting back to the physics just for a second.
If this physics means anything, it can avert or ameliorate the coming Earth changes that everybody is developing a consensus are coming.
Right?
That's point number one.
Number two, at the human level, at the level of people suffering from strange diseases and very anomalous mental conditions, you were asking the question before tonight why these two lovely little kids simply decided to blow away, you know, half a dozen of their classmates?
Of course.
Mary Ann and the people she works with, a whole network, can offer possible answers to that critical question.
And it gets back to the changing physics, which in fact affects consciousness.
And that is one heck of a show that I hope you will seriously consider.
Well, I saw a MD slash psychiatrist on CNN, I think yesterday, actually showing brain scans of young children that have been sexually abused.
And showing a portion of the brain which is significantly, profoundly different than the normal brain.
And he was suggesting that at some point they're like ticking time bombs and something, the breakup with a girlfriend, whatever, will key this and they will turn suddenly violent and do the kind of thing that occurred in Arkansas.
Well, of course, that's the standard psychological question.
Yeah, I know.
Now, what I'm proposing is extending the envelope.
Looking beyond the known.
Remember, that's what this investigation enterprise is supposed to stand for.
Looking beyond the known.
Because that's where the real insights and the real discoveries are to be found.
And I'm just proposing that you're going to have one heck of a show if you set this up correctly, and I'm willing to offer my services to do that.
Okay.
I'm up for it.
Now, to the phones.
I mean, there's going to be reaction to all this.
I would hope so.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
Hello, this is Mark in Houston.
Yes, Mark.
Yes, I'd like to ask a question to Richard.
Go.
Yeah, Richard, with all this talk about the, with NASA giving us all this different information, you know, from the truth, what about the Apollo program?
Alright, in other words, go back to Apollo, Richard.
Well, we have documented, and in fact we're planning, as you know Art, a show sometime in the next month, probably we'll get out of this Mars stuff because that's going to take precedence, but while we've been focused on Mars and Pathfinder and Surveyor, there have been other members of this team who have been quietly looking and analyzing the Apollo data and the Lunar Orbiter data from the previous missions to the Moon, and they have found a set of artifacts which are astonishingly Well represented in this data set and they have now sent them to some of the geology members of Enterprise Who are equally astonished and and perplexed and baffled and amazed and at the appropriate time Which will decide in terms of the news cycles We intend to do a show not only on our show, but also put the photographs on the web that will address the question What was what was it that whole program to go to the moon really all about?
Because you see, when I did my briefing at Ohio State, what I laid out was a scenario that NASA, in part, has known for 30 years, that the moon has stuff on it.
That's why it's a good, relevant question, because obviously it would have had to have been, the knowledge would have been there for all that time, and the cover-up, therefore, would have been in place all that time.
But again, it's how many people does it take to make a cover-up?
When you begin to actually look at the details, the numbers of hands that the data passes through, Before it suddenly can be sanitized.
It turns out that a relatively scary handful of people, because you're dealing with a planet a quarter million miles away, or in the case of Mars, 35 million miles away, can control the flow of information in a system where nobody suspects that anybody would have a hidden agenda.
Richard, would Mike Malin have to be one of those people?
Mike Malin wasn't born, practically, when we went to the moon.
Ah, yeah, but that isn't what I asked.
Regarding what's happening now, would Mike Malin have to be one of the people you're describing?
Malin would have to be.
If there is skullduggery afoot, Mike Malin has to be centrally involved, which behooves him to be very, very good and very, very honest in the next few weeks.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello?
Good morning, Richard and Art.
Hi.
Good morning.
This is Ben in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
Actually, Tinker Air Force Base.
The other special state.
Yeah.
My question is, you mentioned earlier that the potential of Clinton utilizing this to get the spotlight off of him.
This is one of our... Well, I jumped in on that.
That was me.
Wag the red planet.
Yeah?
Okay, well...
That makes me ask the question, does the presidency have that much control over the government?
Actually a very good question. Richard, I'll let you answer it.
Well, you know, when you see what's happened to Clinton since he asked the fatal question, those two questions,
what happened to JFK and are UFOs real, you have to really begin to wonder how much Bill Clinton is in control of all
facets, particularly if, as our discussion turned back in January,
remember the January 6th show, Art?
Yes.
We discussed the accumulating evidence of a secret government and no less a personage than Ed Mitchell is on record, you know, Apollo 14 astronaut in our show, your show, you know, debated with me.
He has gone on record as almost affirming the existence of a secret government.
Yeah, I agree.
I've heard him make statements since then.
Which has adhered to itself power far beyond the Constitution, in which case Bill Clinton is simply out of the loop, and that's why we have to use another process to ultimately get at the facts.
Well then, according to that scenario, Richard, Bill Clinton is a hero.
In other words, Um, he has asked the questions you would have had him ask, and he is now paying the price for that.
Doesn't that make him a hero?
It would make him a hero if he does the final deed and demands that these pictures be honest.
If Bill Clinton were to do that, he would not only go down in history, but every single thing that's been thrown against him would melt away like snow on Venus.
Because he would have done the right thing.
And I'm hoping that, in terms of his namesake, As I said in my open letter, which is on our website, that Bill Clinton ultimately, ultimately will make the right decision here.
He's got a month to tell Dan Golden I want real pictures.
But if what you have described is so, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what he says he wants.
It depends, you know, when you say the President wants something, Remember, we've had a lot of historians now tell us that presidents, you know, ask and sometimes they don't get because they don't ask hard enough or make it enough of a priority.
So if he really used a bully pulpit and raised hell, you think he'd get there?
Because I think 250 million Americans would like him to get there.
See, I think we are living in the Star Trek generation.
I think that your apprehensions about Brookings, as important as they are for a subset of the population, do not apply to the majority.
I think the majority can see the vision of the society we could have if real honesty on this issue.
But there is one thing you're missing.
There's one thing you're missing.
Yes?
You are certainly correct, I believe, with regard to the majority.
But you, Richard Hoagland, just finished telling me how 2% or 200 people in New Mexico can do this grand jury thing.
A distinct minority with reference to the entire country, right?
Well, they can initiate a process, because that's coded in the statutes of New Mexico.
You're talking about a sociological process.
Yes, I am.
And revolutions, Richard, are begun by distinct minorities.
That's true.
So, I take the position, because I get mail.
Look, I got five bins of mail sitting in the other room right now, Richard.
Thousands of letters.
And I can promise you that 20% of them think that I'm the devil's toe jam.
They think that flying saucers are evil.
They are from the devil.
Yes, they're real, people will say, but you are being fooled.
And they will then quote scripture to me.
And these are the people, Richard, who would put enough lead in a little green guy walking down off a ramp
so that he couldn't ever make it to the bottom.
Well, the difference between UFOs landing on the White House lawn and people having to confront, you know,
the day the Earth stood still as a scenario, and looking at ruins, is night and day.
I'm just pointing out, minorities can have a big effect, whether they're Mr. Hoaglands, or whether they're Jerry Falwells.
Well, all I can say is that the majority of Americans want to find out the answers, and the majority of Americans deserve to find out the answers, And the fears of the minority, in fact, are not well-founded.
Satan is not going to descend from the planet Mars tomorrow night if we find out there are ruins in Cydonia.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello, guys.
How you doing this morning?
Just fine.
Okay.
Concerning the thing about Mars and the moon and everything, do you think that, for any chance, NORAD can intercept any of these things coming down?
It's not a matter of intercepting.
In the model I'm putting forth, if there is going to be trickery, the trickery already has taken place.
These photos are sitting in some buffer somewhere to be slipped into the data stream.
It doesn't matter what pictures come down because they already have been set up.
Right.
Okay, but still, like you were saying, you want physical proof.
How can you get that?
Well, you need to document every step of the process.
You know how computers have these infallible memories?
Yeah, I work with computers every day, but yeah, you can program everything to do whatever you want to, but without having somebody see it?
Come on!
No, no, no, I'm saying that people would see it provided they were looking.
Right, you're talking about the unhonest people, right?
That's right.
You know, my favorite movie is Jurassic Park.
Why?
Remember the absolute havoc that the mad computer programmer over there in the corner munching the candy bars was able to create?
Of course.
That's our problem.
In the world of computers, one man can be king if he understands the system and those around him are not paying attention.
And that's our problem tonight.
The system is not yet really paying attention and treating this as the serious, you know, watershed of history, scientific test that it truly is.
And that has to change between now and the end of April.
Or other things are going to happen that maybe NASA will not like.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
Yeah, hi, Art.
Hi, where are you?
I'm in Glendale, California.
All right.
I enjoy your show very much, and I thank you for having me on the air.
Sure.
And I do enjoy listening to Richard, by the way.
All right, then ask him a question.
We don't have a lot of time here.
Okay, I do have a quick comment and a quick question.
Quick.
Richard, I heard something about the moon.
They found vegetation and things like that.
No, they found water.
They found ice at both poles.
And there was discussion on the Art Bell Show that there was the other side of the moon, population, some of those things.
In other words, if you give me a comment on that, if you know anything about that... Yes, I do, and it's total nonsense.
Let me tell you what it's predicated on.
It's predicated on people who don't know how to look at photographs looking at the original Apollo 8 color photography that was taken of the moon back when I was sitting next to Walter in December of 1968.
And because the color emulsions of the film that NASA used were not color balanced, what happened is in the shadows, the dark shadows turned green.
And all the UFO idiots out there think that green implies chlorophyll and chlorophyll implies vegetation, and they see greenish craters and they automatically think trees and green grass and stuff like that.
In fact, it was simply non-color balanced film.
Um, good.
I'm glad you answered that one for me.
So there was a basis, though, for those who looked at the photographs, mistakenly, to see green.
But the devil is in the details.
You must understand the full system if you're going to make an assessment.
On the other hand, other people looked at some craters and saw white, and they were right.
There was water.
Well, at the North Pole, you can't see the water because it's in perpetual shape.
That's why it exists as ice.
Yeah, it's actually dark ice, isn't it?
Very dark.
All right, Richard, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
In the markets where we continue, we will continue to let you ask questions.
My guest, Richard C. Hoglund.
The issue?
Mars, Cydonia.
We're going to have photographs in about five days.
It ought to be something.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
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Alright, well I'm trying to have enough class this year not to play an April Fool's joke on you.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland and for sure he's not joking, but I do have a couple of questions for you, Richard.
Sure.
Michael in Arlington, Virginia writes the following, Hoagland is simply wrong in his reading of the New Mexico constitutional provisions.
The two provisions he cites, referring to a judge's or 12 citizens' power to convene a grand jury, must be read together, i.e., There still must be a showing of a capital, bolognese, or notorious offense before any grand jury could be convened.
Now, hold on before you answer that.
Because another fax comes in saying Art Richard has obvious beliefs in a super-secret, all-powerful society.
I find it a real dichotomy in Richard's logic.
Such a society would easily control the governor, And prosecutors in New Mexico successfully derailing any legitimate grand jury hearing.
And that is an important fact.
I think that this factor is confusing what we have posited exists in the agency, in NASA, with what exists in the state government of New Mexico.
Alright?
But he is proposing that any such grandly A powerful behind-the-scenes government surely could squash a little New Mexico grand jury like yesterday's newspaper.
Well, you know, most of the ways that these things operate is because no one notices.
No one's paying attention.
You know, Ben Franklin said it when they came out of the Constitutional Convention.
A woman apparently asked him what kind of government were we going to have and he said, Madam, a republic, if you can keep it, the problem is people Have become increasingly apathetic and want George to do it.
Well, what I've discovered here in the state of New Mexico is that George can do it.
And there are a number of Georges, and I know that if we got to the point where there was incredible contention over the authenticity of these pictures, there are several statutes.
I mean, NASA is all over this state.
It runs White Sands, the Tedris Downlink is located here, there are major contracts at Los Alamos, the Prospector Mission is basically being run from Los Alamos up the street.
The idea of finding a statuette on which to base a grand jury convocation, I don't think is a major problem.
The major problem is, you know, subpoenaing documents and witnesses and getting access to a paper trail that at the moment is totally beyond our reach.
And thank goodness there is a procedure in this state which puts it within our reach, if necessary.
All right.
Please ask Richard about the death of Representative Schiff of New Mexico, an active questioner in the matters of UFOs.
Well, as you know... You want to go out on that limb?
Well, let me just raise the issue that has been presented to me.
If you look at the cancer statistics for the United States, this came up by the way one night in our debate on whether we went to the moon.
I know.
Remember me asking the question of our friend back in New York, was there a disproportionate cancer rate in terms of the 12 or 20 so men that went to and from the moon?
Shari Atomac?
They're in the UFO field.
There is Steven Greer, there's Shari Atomac, there's Steven Schiff.
There is Bob Guccioni's wife, who's no longer with us, Kathy Keaton, who took a very strong stance with Omni.
Yeah, I've been getting a lot of behind-the-scenes, quiet, we-can't-talk-about-it-yet kind of phone calls about this, and so have you, so... There are some serious people who are looking into this as statistically aberrant.
And again, it's when it gets to be enough of a stink That the society finally produces a correction.
These things only work when no one's paying attention.
Alright, well we'll leave it there.
One more and then we'll go back to the phones.
Art, is there any scenario that Richard could give in less than an hour?
Where he would admit that he was simply wrong about the face on Mars.
It seems Richard is attempting to set up a win-win situation regarding pictures and his good motive.
Richard's entire career may be before him this week.
I hope he's right.
However, I believe people are just not going to buy into a conspiracy theory if the pictures prove him wrong.
Well, let me ask this faxer a question.
If everything is so cut-and-dried, if there are no conspiracies, why did William Jefferson Clinton, as almost his first act when he gained office, ask his best friends to find out what happened to JFK?
We have the Warren Commission.
We have 23 volumes.
That really is a good point.
In other words, just because you don't like the idea of conspiracy... Actually, the president was asking about not one, but two.
But we know I mean, you can argue that UFOs are a separate category, which is not even a field, let alone sufficient evidence.
Oh, I wouldn't argue that.
Well, you could argue that.
There are people, you know, who would argue that.
My conspiracy is as good as yours.
Obviously, President Kennedy existed and he was murdered.
So, I mean, it's a much simpler case.
The fact is, we had a major full court press With, you know, the members of the Warren Court, representatives from Congress, who became president, Gerald Ford, you know, former Secretary of State, et al.
And still we have a president elected in the 90s whose first act, practically, was to ask, what the hell really happened?
But you know, I have said, and I am correct, Richard, if somebody had the absolute truth about the Kennedy assassination, and stood up in front of some sort of national podium tomorrow, and told that true story, Um, we wouldn't move one inch.
It would be one more conspiracy theory piled on the ten million that already exist regarding Kennedy.
Because it is an act of the past.
And it would be lost in the noise.
Exactly, I totally agree.
Now, the thing that differentiates the Sedonia phenomenon and Opportunity tonight from those conspiracy theories is that we have an active mission We have an active game plan, we have a technology which can give us the truth, and all we need is to verify, according to accepted procedures, that we're following the protocols which will allow us to make the decision.
Is that too much to ask?
I mean, I am fascinated by people who claim that this is all kind of just spin-doctoring because I don't really want to know.
Would I be calling for a grand jury to investigate everything, including us, if I didn't really want to know?
I mean, given the extraordinary, awful example of Ken Starr, who in their right mind would loose this monster on the land unless the stakes were high, higher than who's sleeping with Monica tonight?
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Yes, Richard.
Are you one of those, those dissent to pre-program our minds for an intentional letdown?
Working for the U.S.
government cover-up team?
Oh, if I am, I will be entertained, madam.
One of those, Richard?
No.
So, if it does come to see, let us see.
And then, after, you know, something's not right, then let's judge it.
Well, as my grandmother used to tell me, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
What I'm trying to do is to alert the honest people in the system.
Yeah, but you're making us not want to believe, like, just close our minds off.
We want to see or not see.
Give us that chance to judge for ourselves, and then you can debate it.
Well, you see, I differ with that.
I differ strongly, because when you see it, if it isn't honest, if it hasn't been an honest process to where you get to see it, how will you decide whether it's honest?
Yes, but you should give us that option.
Madam, you will see on television a picture.
And NASA will come out and they will say, this is a picture of Cydonia.
You have no way of knowing whether it's Cydonia or Sheboygan.
You haven't been there.
I know, you haven't either, so let's give it a try, okay?
I have spent 50 years studying the data in hand.
I know Cydonia as well as I know Morristown, where I was born, if not better.
The fact is, unless you do your homework, which is why I'm strongly recommending everybody get this book, and get the videos, and bone up on this, So that when you see these pictures, you have some basis to make that decision for yourselves.
That's fair.
That's fair.
And that 800 number is 1-888-338-8581.
And that's where all the materials are.
And I think it is fair that you comment that without the basics, you have no grounding to make any sort of decision at all about what you're seeing.
It's true.
Richard, I truly have listened to you for a number of years and I truly believe in what you're doing, what you're trying to address to us all.
I just wanted to pose the question for, if you will, food for thought.
My belief is God created all that we have here.
Now, if God created Oh, I'm so glad you called.
Richard, there you have one of the people that I was talking about earlier.
rebuild, created the artifacts so that Satan today could deceive us.
Would you look into that or could you buy into that?
Oh, I'm so glad you called.
Richard, there you have one of the people that I was talking about earlier.
Well, remember, one of my earliest interviews was on Pat Robertson's 700 Club.
I had a producer come down to the farm in Virginia and we spent a couple days discussing
that that early, early stage.
That was just before my first NASA invitation in 1988.
Literally, they were there.
The crew was there from CBN when the phone rang, and it was NASA saying, come and show us your data, which was a pretty amazing event for the producer, I must say.
And at the end of that interview, he asked me the question on camera.
He said, why should good Christians care about this?
And my answer, Art, was very simple.
Because I was brought up as a Christian.
I was brought up as a Catholic, as a matter of fact.
And one of the things I was taught was that, you know, if you're religious you should care for truth.
That nothing can supersede truth.
That you can't just ignore it because it's inconvenient or it may make you uncomfortable.
I mean, we are holding Clinton to a standard of telling the truth about incredibly personal things because we apparently in the society hold truth as sacred.
Well, I think the truth is sacred and this truth, more than almost any other truth, should be treated as sacred because
it will take us transcendently to the area where this caller is coming from, which is the ultimate truths, which
we need to know.
Uh... alright.
But this caller is going to presume that they are cast out angels, representatives now of the devil.
Boy, he said that's a marvel.
He didn't say he believed that.
He said, what do you think of this?
All right.
Well, he's trying to see if you are willing to consider that's what it is, because that's what he believes it is, Richard.
I'm sure of that.
If I can sit down with this guy, which would be kind of a neat thing.
I mean, I have done Christian radio.
And frankly, I found the Christian radio listeners are very perceptive and sharp in their questions and want to know.
I would have an extraordinarily interesting time debating a whole range of permutations around the classic, you know, documents that we revere in this society, like the Bible, the Old Testament, etc.
Because the interpretations of certain passages and phrases, and attributing them to specific features on another planet, would make for one extraordinary adventure.
And an insight would be gained into both the human condition,
into the creator, into who we are, what we are to be compared against.
I mean, this is the kind of debate that we should be open to as opposed to closed to.
Richard, what evidence of God do you see anywhere other than Earth?
Well, I am sitting at roughly 7,000 or 8,000 feet.
If I were to take the phone outside on the veranda and look straight up, there are literally a million stars spangling back at me tonight.
That to me is overwhelming.
Remember the phrase, the heavens declareth his handiwork?
But you would be accused of being deceived.
Yes, they are there, but you evaded my question.
There is no evidence that any of those dots of light, or any of the planets that we imagine revolve around them, harbor anything that would be evidence of God's works anywhere but Earth.
Well, now wait a minute.
I just quoted you the line, The heavens declareth his handiwork.
The last time I looked, Mars was in the heavens.
I know, but it didn't say his handiwork includes putting others elsewhere.
No, it says the heavens.
That encompasses anything in the heavens.
They're mere existence.
Surely, Christians would say, yes, of course, that's all God.
But all we have to do is find out whether they're out there.
Remember, if they're out there, the heavens declareth his handiwork.
No pun intended, but that's the devil in the details, see?
See, you got faster on that one.
Look, you can't be a Christian and be a coward.
Oh, yes, you can.
You have to have some courage to want to know the truth.
I mean, really know the truth.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
Hi, this is Steve in South Dakota.
Yes, Steve.
I can barely hear you.
Yeah, I can barely hear him, too.
Steve, you're going to have to yell into that phone.
Okay.
Richard, I want to believe everything that you believe, but you come off as an overzealant.
I mean, just too excited.
And your opinion is the only opinion.
And if there was any debate, I'm sure you would think the other person on the other end was just stupid.
Well, that's an opinion.
Well, you're the other person on the other end right now, so present a fact.
Well, I don't have the information to debate him, but if he had someone with, you know, intelligence enough to debate him, he would just say, well, that person's wrong.
You know, period.
Tell me what I've said.
One specific thing I've said tonight that you disagree with.
Well, you just sort of ramble off at the mouth.
Like, uh, my opinion is it.
That's it.
But, you know, um, I do want to believe what you believe.
So, thanks.
Well, that was kind of weird.
He hung up, Richard.
Now, that was pretty weird.
I mean, he tore at you and said, but I want to believe what you believe, even though I think you're full of baloney and you say everybody else is wrong.
Click.
That was not particularly productive.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello, Art.
Hello.
Oh, fantastic.
And hello, Richard.
I have one comment I would like for you to elaborate on.
I used to have this giant telescope, and I was looking at the moon, and I saw a tube that went into a square box, it had a gear inside of it, and it went off with three other tubes, and I looked at it for a half hour, and I tell you what, that gear was moving, And the only thought that came to my mind was a mining operation.
Can you elaborate on that?
Well, you've got a telescope better than any I know of.
I was going to say, that's one heck of a telescope.
Yeah.
Can I come and look through it?
I don't know of anything that does that.
No, and I don't know of any reports historically.
The most common anomaly that amateur astronomers with, you know, 6-inch telescopes or 12-inch
telescopes see on the moon are these incredible sparkles of light called transient lunar phenomena
that glisten like brilliant beacons for a few minutes or seconds at the terminator and
then disappear.
Hey Richard, could they be seeing ice?
No, they are seeing reflections of the sun on the glass.
And there is a project run by Francis Ringe called the LunaScan project, which if not
linked to our website will be shortly.
All right, on that note, we're going to have to hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour and we must break away.
One more segment to go.
I'm Art Bell from the high and rainy desert.
Damn, I'm sick of the rain.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
The trees are green, red roses too I see them bloom for me and you and I think to myself, what a wonderful life I have
had.
The trees are green, red roses too I see them bloom for me and you and I think to myself, what a wonderful world I
have had.
To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, Dial 1.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
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And you may call out on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1222.
To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA, then 800-893-0903.
then 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Ben.
Some friends shaking their heads, saying I'm leaving them.
So they're really saying I'm done.
I hear fingers crowding me.
I watch them grow.
They're like much more than I'll ever know.
I love that song.
Good morning, everybody.
Richard C. Hoagland is here.
We'll get right back to him.
Indoors, by the way, by Mr. Hankey.
All right.
Back to Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard?
Yes?
I shouldn't do this, but if people do call that line tonight, I will autograph the books.
Really?
I've never done that before.
You're right.
Many, many years ago I did it and I, you know, 5,000 in one day and I said, this is screwy.
So, but given what's going on and where we are and the fact that it's critical that people get this data and look at these images and make their own decisions, I will sit down at a desk and autograph till my hands give out.
They call 888-338-8581.
Okay.
888-338-8581.
Okay, well, you may be sorry.
I've done the same thing and I've been sorry each time.
Oh, by the way, speaking of sorry, that triggered me, David and I dropping in on your signing down in San Diego.
Oh, yes.
This is going to be one heck of a birthday, because we're celebrating my birthday with a joint appearance at an Artville chat club.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
I heard about that the other day.
On the 25th.
Now, look at this, all right?
Look at how NASA has done this.
Malin has conspired To take the last set of pictures and post them the day before my birthday.
On the 24th, alright?
Which means we'll have something to talk about.
Well, which either means he loves or hates you.
Which do you think?
I have no clue.
Anyway, it might be nice if you came to the party.
Well, you never know, but, you know, they've got me chained to a six-day-a-week broadcaster.
It's Saturday.
That's my only day off.
Aw.
And you know what I'm doing usually on Saturday?
Lining up next week's programs.
Okay, well I've already taken care of two of those.
You're talking to somebody who doesn't have a life.
Hey, I understand the feeling.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
Hello.
Uh, yeah, I was just gonna say I, um, I was listening to your program until, I don't know what, two o'clock and then I fell asleep and I just woke up again.
And I heard something interesting that Richard was commenting about God and I was like, uh, don't tell me there's gonna be another person here leaving God out of the equation.
And, um, I didn't hear the whole thing, unfortunately.
Did it sound, did it sound to you like Richard was leaving God out of the equation?
Well, beforehand, in the beginning.
You know, like some of the, uh, some sort of new age-ish ideas, sort of, sort of said.
New age-y stuff, huh?
Yeah, that's the way it originally sounded.
But then when I woke up, uh, then I heard him talking about that and supporting that.
So, it's funny, cause, um, I was gonna talk to you in the future yet regarding this situation.
Uh, I can't really do it with those around me here, cause they're gonna think I'm, you know, blaspheming the scriptures or something.
Um, could I make, uh, excuse me, tongue-tied here, could I make a, uh, quick, A rundown as to what I believe the scriptures have to say, really quick?
Well, let me ask you a question first.
Go ahead.
And if it's not accurate, then I will let you proceed.
Okay.
Do you believe, basically, the scriptures, when read in their totality, would suggest that indeed there are things that we do not understand?
UFOs, apparitions, ghosts, that sort of thing?
And that they all basically are deceiving things that come not from God, but from the enemy of God to deceive us.
Is that what you believe?
I believe that in certain situations, yes, and I believe that some of these Extraterrestrials, whatever.
That are actually legit, but that they're actually Satan's people.
Satan's people.
Alright, alright.
I appreciate the call, sir.
Thank you very much.
Richard, I rest my case.
And what case is that?
The one I've been making with you for some time now.
That fully 20% of the people believe as that man believes.
And trust me, if necessary, that man and others would act.
Well, there's an awful lot of terrestrial problems where people believe vehemently and fervently and we proceed anyway.
So, I don't think that should be a deterrent.
I'm not saying... Well, maybe I am saying it should be a deterrent.
In other words, if we proceed and you're right in every account, you're right in every account, And this whole thing gets laid on the world.
We're not originally from God.
We're originally from some race that originated on Mars.
Or, you know, take a pick of the scenarios.
It doesn't matter.
That we were here on Earth before.
Anything that ruins the underpinnings of faith that that man just told you about.
You know what we ought to do, Art, some night?
What?
We ought to assemble a, you know, theologians from several of the different religions.
And we ought to have a serious discussion with people who are very knowledgeable in, you know, Islam and in Judaism and in Christianity, etc.
I think it would be extraordinarily fruitful, and in this month, as these pictures are being taken, it might be a very important way to look.
Okay.
I'll think about that.
I think that demonstrated all I need to demonstrate the last few calls we've had like this.
Well, Bill Clinton convened a group of theologians at the White House just before Carl died.
That was the Mars Rock thing.
Well, essentially it was around the Mars Rock.
As a matter of fact, we were able to send in the documentation on Cydonia as part of that briefing.
Something which I haven't talked about until tonight.
It is important to have these type of discussions.
And what bothers me about the whole NASA position on this re-photography?
Yes?
No one is conducting in public any preparation of anyone.
Which is my single biggest clue that this is not for real.
This is a fake test.
Now we can, as I laid out tonight, we can turn it into a real test because we're almost there.
But it's going to require those people who give a damn Who really care, who want to know the truth and are unafraid of it, to stand with us in a process that ultimately can wind up under the Constitution in a legal process of getting at the truth if that comes to pass.
Alright.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hello.
Yeah, hi Art.
This is Hayden in Mendocino County listening to MKOH.
Yes sir.
I'm calling basically to substantiate some of what Richard's saying about some of the mushroom food that we get fed out of JPL.
I know a man who worked there several years ago.
He's a Ph.D., physicist.
And he told me that one of the reasons he left was that he was induced by his boss to prepare data to be presented in documentation for funding to Congress and what have you.
That was made up data.
I mean, it was reflecting results of experiments that never happened.
Have him get in contact with me.
I'll put him on the air.
Well, I'll ask him if he'd like to.
By all means.
But one of the things, it gets a little worse.
A lot of this data was then turned over to universities and research institutes as being genuine stuff.
Well, so far it's hearsay, though.
I mean, you're saying this is a very serious allegation.
I know that.
Bring me the guy.
Bring me... Do you have any proof?
Well, I have him.
You have him.
But you don't have him... I can't guarantee that he would want to talk on the radio about it.
Well... We could use your voice changer on him.
Well, that's an idea.
That's an idea.
I mean, these allegations are all well and fine, but...
You know, what do they mean until someone comes forward and says, so-and-so, naming so-and-so, told me to rearrange the following data.
Right?
Uh-huh.
Well, as he said, and there was a look of genuine dismay on his face, he said, my signature is on those reports.
Well, then he's part of the problem.
He doesn't feel good about it at all.
Then he's part of the problem.
I mean, if he signs something that he knew was false, he's as much a part of this as the people you said made him do it.
I grant you that.
All I was doing was, as I said initially, substantiating what Richard says about a lot of the stuff we get is mushroom food.
Well, bring me the guy.
I'll put him on the air.
You know, if he's got a guilty conscience, before he dies, wants to tell the truth, I'll put him on the air.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Good evening, both of you.
Richard, first let me say I'm a huge fan.
I've read your book.
It is excellent.
Everyone should buy it and your videos, which I have linked off of my website and I promote as much as I can.
Well, thank you.
Let me make a few quick points.
You know, I think you've seriously misread the latest press release from NASA, from JPL.
I've done this check on both of the releases, none of them for the first time.
This is a major change, I think, if you'll look into this.
Neither of them mention Malin, and they give a specific downloading path of the data through NASA's Deep Space Network directly to NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
It's all right here.
Directly into what they call then the Global Surveyor Science and Engineering Data.
Consequently, so on and so forth.
In other words, they trace it.
They never mention it going to Malin, and they say specifically they give the time to the ground in 10.5 hours.
Thereafter, raw images will be posted immediately.
30 minutes for data processing.
In other words, for the first time, Malin is out of the picture.
It appears.
They don't mention him anywhere in the press release.
And if you look back at them... You know, you actually may have a point there.
You may have a very interesting point.
They've changed.
And I think if they're listening, like I assume they are, because our show is the leaning post on this stuff, I hope you understand that Richard has done incredible work
for a long time and you should be taken seriously.
But at the same time, those of us that aren't going off as somebody needs to on air want
you to recognize that we see that you have taken a change of heart and we hope you will
stay the course and release the actual photos.
I hope you will respond to that because I really think they have changed.
Given what you just said, I have not had a chance to read the latest...
I can read it out loud for you if you'd like.
Hold on.
I can go to the website and read it myself.
My sources in Washington, who I talked to just yesterday in preparation for tonight, were... Some of them were assuring me that there has been a C-State change.
My sources in the military industrial complex, you know, the people that deal more with the intelligence agencies, say you've got a fat chance and you know where.
Well, so we're getting mixed signals.
Now, let's put it this way.
Leslie Huntress left NASA, okay, about five weeks ago.
He's the one that I have quotes from him specifically saying, there's no guarantee we'll get the photos, and he left.
Now they've taken Malin out of the picture, and my feeling is that the men at NASA who know that, you know what, this is a real thing, we're going to release it, we want our names appended to this discovery, which they will be, I really hope I'm right.
I'm not saying to go easy.
I'm on all the mailing lists.
I'm on all the discussion groups.
And everybody's raising hell and screaming conspiracy ahead of time.
And the other side's already saying back, oh, they're screaming conspiracy.
And that's going to happen.
It's obvious.
However, it does appear as though the people at the top, when you trace it through the Deep Space Network, straight to JPL, They say, consequently, data received overnight will not be retrieved until 9 a.m.
Pacific Time on the following workday, yadda, yadda, yadda.
It'll be immediately posted.
So, they're giving 9.5, 10.5 hours there.
If you read that, I think you'll get a lot of hope from that, and hopefully your listeners will continue to call their congressmen, send the faxes to all the different programs that are linked off of our site and so on, because it is a crucial time.
If we're lucky, In the next two to three weeks, when all three of these so-called new images come out, we may have a sea state change in the entire, you know, social consciousness.
Well, let me ask this question, okay?
You acknowledge it is possible.
I acknowledge anything is possible, and I'm encouraged by his close reading.
I'm very encouraged because he's making very good points.
Here's my problem, alright?
If that's really true, then when Dave Perlman, who I know very well, called Golden or called Pilker or others... But you didn't call Pilker!
Huh?
He has the same quote.
If you read that quote, it's directly the same one that's on the AP that handled the quote saying that most scientists say that most things are natural.
That means at the same time, many scientists believe it could be artificial.
Can I please say something?
It is standard procedure when an issue is extremely contentious to basically stick to the press release.
In other words, anything Pilker told him was on background, and he simply gave him permission to quote from the release, period.
My point is, if Pilker had said to David behind the scenes, you know, this is looking pretty interesting, Daniel and those guys came in, we looked at the numbers, you know, there actually may be something here.
There would have been a totally different story than what came out of Perlman's word processor.
Well, you know what, he didn't break that story, but that other reporter whose name I don't have in front of me, the lady who is having a press conference today, Sarah McLennan?
She's making a story there.
Caller, you're absolutely right, Richard.
The press conference part of it was an April Fool's joke.
The news release was not a joke.
No, the news release was not a joke.
No, you have to know it's for real.
My point is, given the Brookings history, If NASA is really serious about this, they have done no
preparation at all of the general public, which contravenes 35 years of thinking we were going to
hide under our beds and terrorize each flip for flip.
Ooh, Richard jumping over on the Brookings side.
No, no, no. Remember, I'm the one that found this data.
For the sake of the argument, I mean.
Well, what I'm saying is if they were serious, they would have to consider what that is proposing.
Oh, thank you.
And they're being incredibly irresponsible.
If they really plan to dump real data on us, it's the most cockamamie idiocy I've ever heard.
Wow.
Well, look, this is the first chink in the armor.
I mean, frankly, if you look at the Brookings Report, and hence the black letter law that's part of NASA policy that talks about national security, allows them to bury anything.
So, you know, look, any military, if they really want to, if they have anything put on them, they can, FOBO's not shut down forever, but the bottom line is we have to pray that in seven days or six days now, the real images come out, and that when we blow them up, somebody didn't do a pixel-by-pixel smudge job on them.
I don't have to pray, I have a grand jury I can call.
Okay?
Well, but you are going to have to I'll come up with a reasonable amount of suspicion.
And you don't think we've got 35 years of reasonable suspicion?
Well, I mean with respect to this specific indictment you would seek.
Yeah.
Well, I don't have to do that tonight, thank goodness.
No.
No, that's right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Mr. Hoagland, I heard you talking about Santiago, Chile, electro-gravitic machines on the STS-80 video.
Now, that's at 33 degrees, and I've heard you talk about Phoenix, Arizona, Baghdad, Iraq, and I know you're aware that John F. Kennedy was killed in Dallas, Texas at 33 degrees.
That's right.
What is it about 33 degrees?
Well, in the Masonic tradition, 33rd degree is the highest degree possible.
It kind of opens the door to the inner, inner sanctum of secrets.
In terms of the physics, the hyper-dimensional model, Which is where I think all the Secret Society stuff stems from, in terms of ancient, handed-down information.
33 is a number of turns in the tetrahelix model of DNA, which is why it was important in the beginning.
The DNA is kind of like an antenna that decodes information from higher dimensions into three dimensions, And basically sets the parameters for whatever organism is going to be produced.
The 33 is the number of turns in a given length of that code, which defines who we are as human beings.
All right.
Richard, we're coming to the end of the program.
Amazing.
Not really.
It went quite quickly.
Very contentious.
Very interesting.
And I hope the audience got a lot out of it.
Now, you've got materials which you're now promising to autograph.
I will autograph the books, yes.
It's the least I can do.
All right.
A defining moment in history.
All right.
And the number is 1-888-338-8581.
Let me repeat that number.
1-888-338-8581.
I've never heard you offer that before.
That's very generous.
Richard, that's it.
We're out of time.
Thank you, my friend.
And it should be a very interesting... Of course, as soon as the photographs are back, I swear, if you show up on 2020 and you don't show up here first, Richard, we're gonna have a problem.
So, you know, when the photographs are out, I expect you back here, right?
You know, we've said this many times, but tonight we can really mean it.
Stay tuned.
Good night, Richard.
Good night, Art.
That's it, folks.
We are way out of time.
And it's raining here again, and again, and again, and again.
The desert is turning lush and green, and I hate it.
See you tomorrow night.
Open lines tomorrow night.
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
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