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March 23, 1998 - Art Bell
01:57:14
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Phillip Krapf - Alien Abductions
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Time Text
We will interview Philip Kroc.
Now, I hope I'm not doing his name an injustice.
Now, Philip Kroc spent the last 30 years in the newspaper business.
And what he did was, he was a copy editor on the metro desk of the Los Angeles Times.
Now that, in itself, would make a good show.
I'm not going to tell you the rest of his story.
I'm going to let that be a surprise for you.
But we'll talk to him, of course, about journalism and some other things, and then I think what he has to say to you will indeed be quite a shock.
Tomorrow night, Danion Brinkley.
A lot of you have been waiting for Danion to come back, so for at least two hours tomorrow night, we'll have Danion back.
And man, oh man, does he have some news on Egypt.
Holy mackerel.
There's gonna be some interesting times in Egypt as a result of what they have discovered.
They'll tell you about it tomorrow night.
And then, Wednesday night, we'll have Pat Murphy here.
Pat Murphy owns two commercial broadcast stations, or parts of them.
Uh, but he is going to be here talking about... Pirate Radio.
AM, FM, and shortwave.
Those people who defy the Federal Communications Commission and no doubt other world regulatory organizations and transmit without license sometimes some pretty strange material so it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say from the point of view of a commercial broadcaster about all of this.
He knows a lot about it and there is some regulation Appending with the FCC right now, so we'll tell you about that.
Then, Thursday night, Friday morning, David John Oates will be here, and I can tell you right now what the reversals of, well I can't of course tell you what they're going to be, but I can tell you who is going to be reversed.
Reverse speech of Kathleen Willey, Dr. Malin, That should be interesting.
And, of course, Major Ed Dames, and we've been planning that one for a while, and I'm kind of looking forward to it.
That'll be Thursday, and then, let's see, Friday, it'll be Robert Ghostwolf.
I know a lot of you have planned, uh, and have been hoping for that one, so that will be Friday night, Saturday morning, and that, my friend, is the week ahead.
Now, new business for this week.
Welcome WMIQ, Iron Mountain, Michigan.
14.50 on the dial.
And I'm sure heard in the regional area, happy to have you on board in Iron Mountain, Michigan.
Let's look at the news a little bit.
The Oscars, it was Oscar night and Titanic took 11.
Now that would tie Ben-Hur, which also won 11, in 1959.
Of course, it also got the best picture, and I'm so happy about that.
To me, Titanic was... In fact, it's almost a good topic.
Why the mania about Titanic?
For a lot of people, it's almost turned into, you know, I hesitate to use the term, but I will, religious experience.
When the music is played in the supermarket, people stop and get a dreamy look in their eye.
It no doubt is going to outsell, um, even Star Wars.
I think it's coming up on that now.
As the greatest selling, biggest selling, um, picture of all time.
And then Jack Nicholson got it for As Good As It Gets, and As Good As It Gets was indeed As Good As It Gets.
Man, what a good movie that was.
And, uh, the rest is all interesting, but those were my two points of happiness.
Titanic, Which, as I said, would make an interesting thing to discuss on the radio.
Why that movie touched such a deep chord in everybody.
And, of course, Jack Nicholson, who well deserved it for as good as it gets.
Well, it was a good movie.
So, on the wise around the world, the President had a crowd pressing in on him.
But all is okay.
You may have seen the pictures.
Britain's air and seaports.
Get this, folks.
This is the lead story on Reuters.
Britain's air and seaports have been put on alert to the threat of anthrax being smuggled into the country by Iraq.
The All Ports Warning follows a threat by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to flood Britain with the deadly toxin disguised inside duty-free bottles of alcohol, cosmetics, cigarette lighters, and perfume sprays.
Good God.
According to The Sun, the newspaper reported that an intelligence document reveals, indeed, an Iraqi plot to smuggle anthrax into hostile countries.
In Washington, the State Department had no comment on whether the U.S.
was also a target.
Great.
Let's see.
Duty-free Bottles of alcohol, cosmetics, cigarette lighters, and perfume sprays.
Great.
Our president is in Africa.
The court has upheld California term limits, giving a big boost to term limits, the idea.
Israel is talking about expanding Jerusalem.
Actually expanding the borders of Israel's contested capital westward to mark the Jewish state's 50th anniversary.
That'll probably cause trouble.
So, there you have it.
That is the conventional news such as it is to this hour.
Astrophysicist Stephen Hawking Made some very interesting comments a week or so ago at the White House.
And what he said was, quote, of course it is possible that UFOs really do contain aliens as many people believe and the government is hushing it up.
End quote.
Stephen Hawking said that on C-SPAN.
He was the guest lecturer at the second Millennium Evening at the White House on March 6th.
With President Bill and Hillary looking on, Stephen Hawking admitted the possibility of a UFO cover-up during the C-SPAN television's coverage of Imagination and Change, Science in the Next Millennium.
Professor Stephen Hawking, often considered one of the brightest men on planet Earth, who authored A Brief History of Time, was guest lecturer.
Stephen Hawking, after comments about the growth of population and scientific knowledge, stated clearly, the present, listen to this now, the present exponential growth cannot continue indefinitely, so what will happen?
One possibility is, we wipe ourselves out completely by some disaster, like nuclear war, There was a sick joke that the reason we have not been visited by extraterrestrials is that when a civilization reaches our stage of development, it becomes unstable and destroys itself.
Of course, he went on, it is possible that UFOs really do contain aliens, as many people believe, and the government is hushing it up.
Quote, personally, he said, I believe there is a different explanation why we have not been contacted, but I'm not going to go into it here.
However, even without that, there is a very real danger that we will kill everything on this planet now, now that we have the technology and power to do so, and that was a comment by the person who sent it to me now.
Philip Kraft.
Philip H. Kraft.
Kroff, I guess.
The spelling of the last name is K-R-A-P-F.
Phil spent 30 years in the newspaper business as a reporter, photographer, editor, and editorial writer.
He worked for 25 years as an editor on the Metro Copy Desk of the Los Angeles Times in the main downtown newsroom.
During that time, he shared in a Pulitzer Prize as a member of the Metro team that won the award for that newspaper's coverage of the Los Angeles riots back in 1992.
in 1992. The author took early retirement in 1993 at the age of 58, smart. Prior to
joining the Times staff in 1968, he spent the first five years of his career after graduating
from college in 1963 as a staff member of the community newspaper in San Fernando, California.
He, of course, began as a cub reporter.
He lives with his wife in Southern California now.
Here is Philip H. Cross.
Philip, welcome.
Hi, Art.
Great to have you on the program.
Thank you.
I want to talk to you a little bit.
Since you work for such a high profile, I mean, it is one of the nation's great newspapers, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, the Chicago Sun-Times, I guess they're the cream of the crop, aren't they?
It ranks right up there, yes.
Twenty-five years editing in the city department.
What was that like, Philip?
Was that an ulcer-producing job?
It was, um... There are, of course, daily deadlines, and it's a high-pressure job, sure.
The hours weren't particularly long for me, but when we were working, there was a lot of stress.
Why did you decide to retire at 58?
I think a very wise decision, by the way.
Well, newspaper men generally don't have very long lifespans, and they figure that some of it might be attributed to too many deadlines, too many cups of coffee, too many missed meals, things like that.
And also, The Times was Quite frankly, on an austerity program at the time, and they were offering generous buyouts, and I was at that age where I thought, well, might as well grab it now.
It wasn't like I was in my forties.
I only had about seven years left, and the offer was so generous that I thought that I should take it.
They made you an offer you couldn't refuse.
Yeah, right.
I didn't want to refuse, actually.
It's much that way, by the way, I think, in broadcasting as well.
People are, I mean, look at me, I've got it sitting right here, I admit it, coffee, cigarettes.
Right.
Deadlines, showtimes, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
We tend to be type A's and burn quickly and have short lives.
Right, and we drop dead on the newsroom floor off too often.
Yeah, in my case, why, it's just a header right into my desk here, you know, with a very dramatic clunk on the air, and that'd be about it.
So, I think you did make, indeed, a wise decision.
Now, there are some interesting things happening between what was your business and what is my business now, broadcasting, and television, and television news, and the various types of magazine shows that are on television, and now even with newspapers around the country.
Things are changing, and the line between news and entertainment and information that may or may not be true is all beginning to get blurred.
It's occurred most particularly in the last few years.
Did you, prior to your retirement, begin to notice that?
Um, in my, at the Los Angeles Times, I didn't really see too much of it.
No, I've seen, I've seen more of it, uh, since I've retired and it's been five years.
Uh, I have seen it in, in television, uh, but, um... Well, television, of course, is leading the way.
Right.
Um, but even in my media, it, uh, it certainly is occurring and, uh, now, I guess in New York more than Los Angeles it is occurring in the newspaper industry.
Now when you read the L.A.
Times of today, and I'm sure you want to be careful here so maybe I ought not make it the L.A.
Times, when you read any big city newspaper today, do you sort of cringe at some of what's covered like the presidential sex scandals and so forth?
Um, I'm very disappointed in the way it's been covered, yes.
I find it almost bordering on disgraceful.
Oh!
Yes, and I do read my daily newspaper, and that is the Los Angeles Times, and that's basically the only newspaper I read.
I don't read it as carefully as I used to when I was working there, because I was paid to read it, but I still read it pretty thoroughly.
But that's the only newspaper I do read.
Well then you would be in a particularly interesting place to be able to judge the changes that have occurred since
you left.
No doubt about it, because as you said, you read it for a living.
Yes. And I got paid to read it.
You got paid to read it, right.
So I devoured it.
I devoured it every day from page one to the back page.
I skip over it a little bit more today.
I don't spend as much time as I used to because I'm not getting paid to do it.
So it'd be kind of like still being at work to literally devour it every day.
Yeah, right.
And a lot of things don't interest me, so I don't read them.
But when I was down there, I had time, and I did read things that didn't really interest me, but I just wanted to stay up on them.
So you had really a very, very mainstream career.
Right.
Can you tell me a little bit about the Los Angeles Riots?
You were part of a team that won a Pulitzer, I guess.
Well, the whole Metro staff actually won that award, and I was on the Metro staff, and so I can claim that legitimately as one of my credentials.
I have a plaque.
I have a letter from the editor.
I have a nice paperweight, so I can legitimately claim it, although the entire Metro staff actually won that award.
Still kind of a nice capstone for a career.
Very nice, yes.
Do you have any observations on those riots?
Do you expect that kind of disturbance ever again in an American city?
Is it more likely now or less likely since those riots?
I really can't answer that.
That's a sociological question.
It is.
I just can't answer it.
I really can't.
If it happens, they'll cover it.
If it doesn't, you know.
But I really don't know.
I can't answer it.
Though you do live in Central California.
I live in Southern California.
Southern California.
Excuse me, even closer.
Do you think that conditions have improved or not since the riots with respect to what caused them?
Which is another way of asking the same question you didn't want to answer.
Yeah, I would hope, I would hope that things are gradually getting better.
If we're not evolving towards something better, then maybe we're regressing.
But I would hope that things are getting better.
That's the best I can do on that.
Okay, that's fine.
With today's electronic age, the internet The Drudge Report that flashes across the internet before newspapers can even get hold of it.
How do you see the whole industry changing?
Is the internet going to affect adversely newspapers and broadcast media?
I can't see how it wouldn't.
It's a new medium and I think newspapers are going to have to adjust to accommodate that new medium.
I think probably fewer and fewer people are reading newspapers They're getting their information from other areas.
So newspapers, I think, are changing.
They're going to have to change in order to compete.
How do they do that?
I, for example, rely heavily on electronic media, the internet, CNN, for my news so that I know what's going on and I will absorb as much as I can just prior to my airtime.
Um, and if I read the newspaper, I'm reading about what occurred yesterday.
A problem for newspapers.
Is it hurting circulation?
I don't know if that is hurting circulation.
All I know is I think there is a general trend for fewer and fewer people to get their news from the newspapers.
I don't know what the reasons are.
If it's because people are too lazy to read, they're not interested in getting a A more in-depth coverage of the news.
I don't know if it's because they're just too busy.
It takes an awful lot of time to read a major metropolitan daily newspaper because they do cover stories in depth.
And it takes quite an investment of time.
I'm not even willing myself to put in that investment of time anymore.
I used to be before.
Because, as I say, I was down there all day long, and I had time to read the newspaper all day long.
But even now, as I'm retired, when I'm retired, I don't spend the time with the newspaper.
And I feel sometimes that, you know, I get a little frustrated.
I say, well, you get on with it, get on with it, get me to the point of the story.
You know, so I get a little impatient.
I think the newspapers are going to have to change there.
And what does that mean?
Does that mean change?
They're gonna have to just be more pithy and get to the point that readers just simply don't have the time to read
the purple prose of reporters who consider themselves I get a whole lot of email.
and they simply slow the story down too much.
The fact that a lot of people don't read newspapers is evident or evidenced.
I get a whole lot of email.
I get about 350 pieces of email every two hours if I clear it.
And a lot of the spelling in that email is, I mean, you would just sort of shake your head
and feel sad.
Yes.
at what you receive.
As an editor, I'm sure that hits home with you.
You're even seeing it, I think, I think their writing skills, their language skills, let's
say, are diminishing.
I think what we have is... I grew up at a time when there was no television.
I learned the language by reading.
I think a lot of the reporters you see today, a lot of their language is kind of an audio language.
They picked the language up by listening to it on television.
And I see a lot of that kind of stuff working its way into the newspaper.
I didn't see that, you know, Well, you were once a cub reporter.
if you were to advise somebody lusting for a journalistic career today
by having made it to the top yourself what would you say to them?
what would I say to someone who is lusting for a...
there are...
I don't know.
All I know is that I heard that someone was telling me... I went to a state college in Northridge, and I heard somebody told me that many of the journalism students out there hope to get careers in journalism, and a lot of them didn't even subscribe to a newspaper.
You have to read.
You have to read a newspaper.
You have to get the language into your bones.
You can't just pick it up on television.
So, read.
Read.
If you want to write, you have to read.
I recall watching a movie, All the President's Men.
I'm sure you saw that.
Right.
A remarkable story of Woodward and Bernstein and how it all came down.
And there were constantly meetings in which they were trying to determine if a story that they were about to run would end up in some way causing the newspaper grief and financial judgments and whether something could be said legally.
Does an editor As you were at the LA Times, spend a lot of time doing that kind of work.
Well, that's pretty traditional in journalism, where you have to have corroboration, especially for dangerous material.
The very controversial stories in which libel could be involved are always lawyered.
They do have lawyers on staff, and they are looked over very carefully.
So they have to be careful about that.
And you can't take unsubstantiated or uncorroborated information, especially if it's going to potentially damage
someone's reputation, you have to have corroboration for it. And so they do have to be very
careful about that sort of thing.
And if they can't get the corroboration, even if they know deep in their bones that it's
true, they really can't run with it. They have to be very careful.
Well, the editor at the Post during the course of that made some rather, if they portrayed
it correctly, some rather chancy, out on a limb kind of decisions. Would you have done
that?
I'm sure you asked yourself as you watched that movie.
I really wouldn't be presumptuous enough to put myself in the place of Ben Bradley.
He's an icon.
I was just an everyday working newspaper man.
By the way, A reporter for the Washington Post was here with me several weeks ago, two, three weeks ago, doing a story on me, and he knows Ben Bradley, and he said that Ben Bradley is the Ben Bradley that was portrayed in the movie, that it was extremely accurate.
So those would have been some very tough decisions, indeed, to make, and you wouldn't even want to comment on whether you would have or would not have.
No, I don't think so.
I really couldn't put myself in his place.
Alright, having done, what, the first 25 minutes or something with you in this interview, do you think the audience has even a hint of where we're going with this interview?
I don't know, I'm not even sure I know.
Your best journalistic instincts?
No, I don't think so.
I don't think so either.
I don't think so.
I don't think so either.
All right.
By the way, do you from time to time go back and visit your colleagues at the times?
No, I haven't.
When I first retired, I did.
I felt like I had been kind of thrown out of the family.
When you leave a job like that, a place like that, you better know who you are, because it's almost like a death in the family.
You were no longer part of that family, and I admit I missed it.
I went back a couple of times, but I don't go back anymore.
I haven't been back for, oh, let's see, probably almost four years.
A lot of times it is like a death in the family.
When people retire, particularly from that kind of a job, they die.
I mean, they just sort of roll over and die.
Thankfully, that has not happened to you, obviously.
Not yet.
Okay, when we come back, we'll tell the audience the rest of the story.
Philip Kropp is my guest.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
Ghosts, goblins, aliens, little green guys, blah blah.
I don't know more than one or two people that I knew who believed in that kind of stuff.
No, I did not believe in it.
Not a believer?
No.
Skeptic?
Absolutely.
During those years, I take it the Los Angeles Times didn't do a lot of stories on that sort of thing?
I don't think much of the mainstream media did any of those types of stories.
Are you today still a skeptic?
No.
No, huh?
Okay, now I have not heard this story, audience.
So we're going to hear it together.
Phillip had an experience, and Phillip has written a book about that experience.
Phillip, what happened to you, and when?
Well, something happened to me.
It was last June, and I was very surprised to find myself an abductee.
An abductee?
Like so many of the others who have been claiming for many, many years they have been abductees and that I poo-pooed and that the mainstream press basically ignored.
Uh-huh.
You were abducted yourself?
Yes.
Well, take me through it.
What happened to you?
When did this happen?
Do you want the short version of a couple of paragraphs, a couple of sentences, or do you want the more detailed?
No, I want the detailed version.
Okay, well, it began, it was Wednesday, June 11th, early in the morning.
Of what year?
Last year, 1997.
Okay, June 11, 1997.
And, uh, I found myself suddenly aboard a starship.
Well, now that's jumping in a little.
I mean, first of all, where were you?
I was in bed.
You were in bed?
Woke up.
Uh, there was a bluish-white light filling the room.
I just thought I had fallen asleep, but the television set on.
Groped for the remote control, looked at the TV screen.
It was dark.
I thought, well, that's very weird.
Where did the bluish-white light appear to be coming from, or was it just sort of non-specific?
It just filled the room.
Just filled the room.
Just filled the room.
That sounds like a movie.
That's what I wanted to do.
That's what I thought.
Then I turned to look at the drapes.
I thought, well, let's see, maybe if the window opens, something's...
There's a streetlight out in front of the house.
I don't know, maybe something's going on there.
The drapes were drawn.
Now, did it wake you up?
I don't know.
on there. The drapes were drawn. Now did it wake you up? I don't know.
I don't know.
All I know is I awoke suddenly, with a start.
Okay, and when you awoke, the first thing you noticed was a light.
A light.
And so I, well, okay, let's find out what's going on here.
Sure.
Jumped out of bed, headed for the wall switch to turn on the light in the room, and at that point this light I was like, I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job.
I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to
get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm
going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a job. I'm going to get a
job. I'm going to get a job.
No. I got a couple of steps and all of a sudden there was, I just didn't feel any weight upon my feet and the next
thing I know I was being drawn up and it only lasted a couple of seconds.
Did you actually...
Did you actually have the sensation of being drawn up?
Um... In other words, we hear various stories.
There are actually eyewitnesses in New York City to a very famous abduction.
UN employees, diplomats, and their drivers saw somebody literally taken right through a wall.
Do you have any idea of how you went through whatever you went through, where you were going?
No.
I seemed to be encased in the light and the light itself.
I didn't have any experience of going through walls, ceilings, roofs, anything.
Did you have a sense of motion?
No sense of gravity and then I felt myself rising.
I thought I felt myself rising to the best of my recollection.
It happened so fast I really didn't have time to analyze it.
You didn't ask yourself mentally whether you were dreaming or in some sort of altered state or something like that?
It happened too fast.
I hear that.
A couple of seconds and boom you were gone.
I was gone and next thing I know I was standing among a group of Very strange creatures and I think deep down I knew what had happened.
I was trying to deal with it.
I was trying to actually deny it.
I didn't believe in it.
Can you describe when you opened your eyes or when you arrived with your eyes open?
I don't know.
And here are these creatures.
What are your surroundings and what do they look like?
They are short.
I was in a very large room.
Auditorium size.
I estimated it to be roughly 600 feet by 400 feet.
Had a high ceiling.
About 20 feet.
And the room was filled with tables.
Tables.
And on these tables were various Human beings.
People.
I arrived standing beside the table, not lying on the table.
Was it literally, that's a big room as you said, was it literally filled with these tables?
Hundreds.
Hundreds?
Hundreds.
Of these These tables, beds, whatever they are, like examination tables I guess, and stretched from wall to wall in all directions, maybe 10 to 15 feet.
I guess there were 100, but 10 to 15 feet between them in all directions.
Sounds like a scene out of Coma, minus the hanging part.
I think I saw Coma, but I don't remember much about it.
They had a bunch of people hanging in a room, waiting to have their body parts harvested.
It was horrible.
Yeah, it's been a long time.
So anyway, then there are creatures.
How many and what do they look like?
Well, there are creatures throughout the whole room around every table.
The ones I was at around my table, there were, I believe, there were three at that time.
And they were small, slightly built, Color?
Any color to the skin?
I thought I saw a kind of a multi-racial color between some of them.
Grayish, grayish white.
of the world.
No body hair that I could discern.
The eyes were slanted and the eyes were not very large.
They were kind of slit, although I could see the eyes.
The nose was almost nonexistent.
non-existent, a couple of black dots for nostrils.
Not the typical gray.
You know, I never heard of that word before or that description of these people
because I never read anything in this genre.
I just didn't follow these stories.
If it didn't appear in the mainstream press, I didn't know anything about it.
Well, that's because that's where you work.
And plus, I'm sure that the pressures at the Los Angeles Times would really prevent you
from moving into or even being interested.
I didn't have any interest in extraterrestrials because I didn't think there was enough evidence to support the belief that they are here.
stories of alien abductions because I didn't believe them.
I didn't have any interest in extraterrestrials because I didn't think there was enough evidence
to support the belief that they are here.
I did not, I was not a disbeliever in the possibility of extraterrestrial life because
it's a big universe out there and I thought it would be actually quite surprising if there
wasn't life out there.
I just never felt that the evidence, there was enough evidence to support the belief
that they were indeed here.
And so I never read in that genre, I never read in the metaphysical new age genre, I
wasn't interested.
Okay, but Shirley, since your experience, I'm sure you've picked up a few books and
you've probably seen a photograph of the typical grey with a large oval black eyes, blah blah
You've seen that picture, right?
Actually, you know where I saw that?
There's been a lot of it on television recently.
That's right.
uh... during uh... last year i think that the fiftieth anniversary of uh...
rosswell and uh... then with the millennium coming up uh...
td is doing a i i watch a lot of the discovery channel and the learning
channel and i've seen a lot of it on there i didn't start hanging around afterwards
uh... i need to going over to new age sections of book bookstores which
i've never even went into before the well i'd better get myself an
education But there was so much material available, I had no idea where to start.
Alright, have you seen either a drawing or a photograph of anything in these books that you have now read that looks like what you saw?
To be honest with you, I have not really read anything yet.
One book I read, and the reason I haven't read anything is that there's so much material available, I'm not sure how much of it is authentic, how much of it is not authentic, and I have no idea where to start, and it would take me a lifetime to get myself an education.
It's not like I've been researching this for 15, 20 years, as a lot of people, even longer, as a lot of people have.
All right, if you were asked to draw one of these creatures, and maybe you've already done it, I would presume, since you wrote a book, you probably have.
I can't even draw a stick figure.
Yeah, that's my problem, too.
That's what I do.
In fact, I draw stick figures, dumb looking things.
Yeah, yeah.
But perhaps together with an artist, Right.
Of course I could.
I have not done so.
I haven't engaged anybody to do so.
But I suppose I could.
an artist through what this thing looked like, these pictures?
I suppose I could. I have not done so. I haven't engaged anybody to do so.
But I suppose I could. And I do realize that the description that I have differs.
There are some similarities, I think, between what the prevailing view is and what I witness.
But I have been, of course, contacted by researchers who have been looking at this for a long time.
And they wanted to know about whether they resembled greys.
And I didn't know what greys were, quite frankly.
And there are some deviations from their view.
From what they describe and from what I witness myself.
What is the name of your book, Philip?
It's called The Contact Has Begun, and then there's a subtitle below that.
I did not name it, by the way, the publisher named it.
I named it originally A Journalist's Encounter.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
They renamed it The Contact Has Begun, and under that a subhead, The True Story of a Journalist's Encounter with Alien Beings.
Well, you are a ufologist's dream come true.
Because like a policeman, like a fireman, like other trained observers, Particularly somebody with your extremely mainstream background, you're just going to be a dream for any ufologist.
There are some pretty credible abduction stories, as you go back through the Travis Walton story, for example.
I interviewed Travis and his boss, which occurred down in Snowflake, Arizona.
And I think you may have seen the movie, or maybe you haven't.
It was called Fire in the Sky, and there was also a book by the same name.
I'm not familiar with it.
Not familiar?
Not familiar with the movie, not familiar with the book, not familiar with the name of the author.
Sorry.
No, that's just fine.
Just before we proceed with your encounter, when all of this ended, You must have gone through some very, very, very serious internal dialogue with yourself about whether you were going to tell anybody about this period or just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your retirement.
I actually was committed I committed myself to going public with it.
I didn't want to.
Immediately?
Or did you chew it over a little bit?
No, I didn't.
I didn't chew it over.
I was there for three days.
I committed myself to it.
I didn't like the idea of doing it.
I knew I was going to become isolated from the few friends that I had.
I have somewhat or maybe at least become more distant.
I knew that I was going to take a lot of heat because of my previous position.
And also I, quite frankly, I value my privacy and I'm paying a price that I don't particularly like.
People rarely understand, people in the audience don't understand that I'm now on 400 radio stations across the country.
And when you become, when you achieve some certain level of notoriety, everybody out there thinks, oh, wouldn't that be great?
I'd love to do that.
And I tell them all the time, Philip, be careful what you wish for, because there really is a very serious price you pay for becoming so public.
Yes, I'm finding that out and it's not pleasant.
I don't like it.
It affects you psychologically, it affects me even physically.
That's right.
Who is your publisher?
It's Hay House.
They're down in the San Diego area.
Well, I have a publisher as well and I wrote a book and my experience was publishers are really neat people but they lay a lot of pressure on
you to go out and do things like book signing,
radio interviews like the one you're doing now, television, it'll go on and on and on and on and I take it that is
what's occurring to you? They are not putting... they're very good.
Hay House is really very very good.
They're not putting any pressure upon me at all.
I feel an obligation.
I've taken on the chore.
I feel I have an obligation to follow through.
I've never given a speech before.
Quite frankly, it scares me.
There's some things that I probably won't do.
I've been so far invited to do some speaking.
I've never given a speech before, quite frankly.
Quite frankly, it scares me.
I'd probably...
You know what it scares me, too?
It scares the hell out of me.
As a matter of fact, I'm in my little cubbyhole.
I'm in my little world, and for as long as I'm able, you're the only one I'm talking to, Philip.
Right.
There's no one else out there.
Right.
I'm just having dialogue with you.
Sure.
But I'll tell you, when I walk into a room full of maybe 100 or 200 people, I freeze.
I'm just, people don't understand that.
I talk to millions every night.
But they don't understand that to do that I put myself in a position where you're the only one out there.
Yeah, I have accepted actually one speaking invitation and I felt that I have an obligation to them because actually it's what's called an Art Bell Chat Club.
The Art Bell Chat Club of the San Fernando Valley.
No kidding!
And Sharon Wells, she's I guess the head of that, she Uh, actually sent me an email says I contacted Art Bell.
Uh, he wants you to send him your telephone number.
Yeah, that's right.
So I thought, well, I have a common obligation to...
Oh, that's going to be one hot meeting of...
Again, here I am...
My guest is a remarkable man, Philip Krupp.
Philip spent 30 years in the newspaper business as a reporter, photographer, editor, and editorial writer.
He worked for 25 years as an editor on the Metro Copy Desk of the Los Angeles Times in the main downtown newsroom in L.A.
Matter of fact, he shared in a Pulitzer Prize as a member of the Metro team that won the award for the newspaper's coverage of the L.A.
riots in 92.
He retired early, wisely, at the age of 58.
When the L.A.
Times, uh, was... What is it they call it?
Downsizing, and they offered him a deal he couldn't refuse, and so wisely he got out.
Now, Philip was not exactly what you would call a believer.
He was more or less a skeptic.
Didn't have time for, or ever think about, read about, or even concern himself with alien abductions, UFOs, ghosts, new age, metaphysical stuff, crystals, none of that.
Didn't know about it, didn't want to know about it, didn't care, had very mainstream work to do, until one day, June 11th, 1997, when suddenly at night, he jerked awake, his room filled with a blue glowing light, which then manifested itself into a beam, and the next thing he knew, he was standing in a ship, surrounded by alien beings that he is describing.
At this hour, Los Angeles joins, and I'm sure many of his former colleagues are going to be listening and rather surprised.
He has authored a book about it called The Contact Has Begun.
I don't think you've heard him in many places before, and we will continue with his story in a moment.
Are you having arthritis?
Philip H. Cross.
Philip, there you are in a ship.
With, again, the size of the room, it was how big?
My estimate?
600 feet by 400 feet.
600 feet by 400 feet.
Uh, ceiling's about 20 feet high.
Wow, that's a lot of square footage.
That's an auditorium.
And in that are all these tables with what appear to be human beings on them, but the beings around you, in fact, around each table are not human at all, but rather frail.
Would you describe them?
Would you say frail beings?
Very slightly built.
I'm not sure frail, but certainly slightly built, yes.
If you were to compare them to humans, what would you estimate one would weigh if you were using our standard of measurement?
Probably in the area of 90 to 100 pounds, perhaps.
Pretty light.
Yes.
Right.
Alright, so there you are.
Poof.
At this point, I've got to be honest with you, I'd probably... I don't know what I'd do.
I guess until that happens to you, you don't, but I'd probably become incontinent or something.
What happened?
What did you go through mentally?
The first initial reaction I thought would be that no one could survive this without their snapping.
But I was very surprised to find that I was very calm, at peace, didn't feel drugged, but felt just a lack of anxiety.
As you think back on that now, that's unnatural.
It is unnatural.
It belies the reality of what's going on.
And as I learned later, the beam of light itself, I'm sure, triggered this effect.
So that, as I said, I didn't feel drugged or anything.
I just felt a lack of anxiety that I felt should be there.
I should be screaming in abject terror.
Did you actually consider that fact intellectually at the time or later?
No, I was thinking about that at the time.
I thought, why am I accepting this so calmly with such equanimity?
It's not natural.
It goes against the human nature.
You're put into a terrifying situation.
You should be terrified.
Uh, and, um, I, I, I pondered that, wondering why, why, and then I learned later that the, the beam of light itself, um, um, just simply had that calming effect.
But you didn't, you didn't feel drugged?
No, I didn't feel drugged at all.
And I, I felt calm throughout the, the entire ordeal for three days.
Three days?
Yes.
Three days?
Yes.
Earth 24 hour type days.
72 Earth hours approximately.
My best estimation.
How, by the way, how, what are you basing your estimate on?
Um, from the time I left my bed until the time I returned to my bed, it was approximately three days.
No, but I mean, did you have a watch?
No, no, no watch at all.
I simply estimated the time that I was there.
Since there's no night or day, um, in space, uh, I simply estimated what day it was back home, uh, by how many hours I had how many hours he lapsed.
I take it, uh, somebody who was an editor in the city desk of the LA Times,
you probably get a paper gratis, don't you?
Uh...
No?
No.
No, you don't? Really?
No, I always subscribe to the...
I've been a subscriber to the Times since I first came out here in 1952.
My parents actually were the original subscribers, but then I, of course, when I got my own household, I've been a subscriber for 45, 46 years.
Well, the reason I said all that is because I was going to suggest why you could have looked at the data on the Times and how many newspapers were stacked up to know exactly how long you had been gone.
Oh, I didn't have to do that.
I knew basically how long I've been gone.
I kept telling myself, what time is it now?
How long did this meeting last?
How long did I sleep?
So, I kept a pretty good, I had a pretty good idea of what day it was, what time it was.
Alright, anyway, here you are, standing there, next to the table, right?
Uh-huh.
And then what?
Well, then one of the people, I guess we can call them people, I don't want to call them creatures, approached me and introduced himself and gave me his name in a language that I can't even duplicate, but he said, but you'll call me Gus, and he pointed to a name tag, and sure enough he had a name tag on.
A name tag?
He had a nametag on it.
Really?
And actually, from what I could see, all of the others had nametags.
All nametags?
Yes.
And with names, earth names, that I was familiar with and could relate to.
I see.
Again, probably to calm you, to make you feel familiar.
And also because, at first, I could not distinguish between individuals.
Because they all looked so much alike to me except for the different sizes.
In other words, 5'2"-5'4", so that the people I was dealing with, Gus and some others, I wouldn't make the mistake of addressing someone else when I'm talking to you in a language you'd never be able to discern and yet
you understood.
No, no. He spoke to me in English. Now, I did not see any lip movement. What I did was
I compared it to a parrot. How a parrot could actually mimic human sounds without using
lips or tongue.
And I did not see any lip movement.
But at least for the parrot, I think you see a beak opening.
The sound is, of course, emulated internally, so you don't see it actually talking.
Yes.
But in this case, you say their lips didn't even move or open?
I didn't know.
The mouths were slightly open, and I simply heard the words as though they came from the throat.
It's been suggested to me by other people who have contacted me who suggested that they were actually using telepathy.
I don't know.
I was speaking, as far as I know.
I was speaking myself.
That was going to be my next question.
When you spoke back to them or asked them a question or whatever, you spoke aloud.
I don't think I ever learned how to communicate telepathically.
I spoke aloud.
I didn't believe in telepathy.
Some researchers have suggested that telepathy was going on, but I know I was speaking aloud.
I thought certainly I was also hearing them speaking aloud.
But that's a little difficult to truly discern because none of us really knows what it's like to hear someone speak to you telepathically?
At this point, I don't rule anything out.
I think anything's possible.
Before, I would have said, no way.
Well, if something is speaking to you, some being is speaking to you,
and the lips are not moving, then there's a fair reason to think that
either they're very bright parrots, or they're telecommunicating with you telepathically.
Or they have very, very unusual voice boxes.
That's right.
Any of the above.
Anything's possible.
Alright, so basically, what did they say to you and what did you ask?
Um, he, the one person introduced himself to me as, uh, and he gave me his name and, uh, I wouldn't be able to, um, I could, I, I, I could, uh, write it down phonetically, which I did in the book, but, uh, I, I don't know if I could pronounce it.
Okay.
Uh, so, uh, he introduced himself to me as Gus and, um, and I, I, I thought that I was there for an examination because from everything I have read or heard, that was the purpose of these abductions.
For an examination lasting for a few minutes to several hours.
And so I thought that I was there for an examination and he says, no, no examination for you.
So you're asking at this point, why am I here?
Yes, yes.
And he says no examination?
No, no examination for you.
And they, by the way, I appeared there in my underwear, and they provided me with a kind of a robe, the same kind of robes that they were wearing.
Now the people on the table, they were wearing like hospital gowns, you know, they opened in the back.
Oh, brother.
These people were wearing, these creatures were wearing kind of robes.
I don't know, you know, men don't know much about style or fashion or anything like that.
I was going to do a little bit of a trip, a little walk, and we ended up in a boardroom,
They told me that I was there for, um...
Wardrobe.
Uh, it was like a...
It was like a typical American boardroom, a very futuristic one, but there was a nice big table and some very comfortable chairs around it, and we all sat down, and I was told that, yes, you're aboard a spaceship, Yes, the stories are true that we have been doing this for any number of years and in all that time, of the tens of thousands of contacts they have had, they have never intentionally or unintentionally harmed anyone.
And I said, well, why am I here?
That's one of my first questions.
Right.
And they said that they want me to participate in a very important project, an assignment of some sort.
Really?
Yes.
So then, you'd probably ask, why me?
Eventually, I did.
At the beginning, I asked, I think, I asked, well, what project?
And they said, basically, they called this a P-O-E-I session, which I think is Preparatory Orientation Education and Indoctrination.
Say that slowly, please.
P-O-E... P-O-I-E-I?
It's P-O-E-I.
You know what?
I forget the details of this.
I actually have to... I remember the basic story of what really occurred, but some of the details... I have to actually go back into the book to find the details myself, because I forget a lot of them.
Give me the acronym again.
I had been selected for a specific assignment, they said.
Sounds kind of like when I was in the Air Force.
So you had been selected to do something.
Right.
And they said basically that the, and I said, well, what's that?
Basically the time has come to do something.
Right. And they said basically that the, and I said, well, what's that?
Basically the time has come for contact, and between, formal, official contact, not just these abductions.
And that they were now preparing to bring about this formal contact.
And they said they have been recently taking very, very prominent world citizens and putting them through the same
kind of indoctrination.
The other abductees before that, for the last 50 years, it was basically for, they were basically studying the human
body cell by cell and learning everything about it.
And they were taking basically anonymous people.
Right.
But now they're taking, they're shifting.
Yeah, you were targeted.
Yes, I actually was, because they knew something about me, and I felt that, well, since they know something about me, there was certainly that possibility that I was targeted, and I found out that yes, I had been targeted.
And so, there are other, it would be your feeling then, that there are other prominent People in what areas?
Journalism?
Broadcasting?
Almost every field of human endeavor.
You name it.
Government, religion, arts, science, medicine, journalism, broadcasting perhaps.
And there are a lot of people around the world now with some very big secrets.
Oh, that's true, there are.
Yes, and they are shifting, whereas before they used to take anonymous people simply because they were studying the body itself.
Any person would do, so they tried to keep it a low profile.
As we would study a lab animal, perhaps.
Yes, and so anybody would do, but they said that phase is now over.
Well, then this is a very, very important question, Philip.
It would be your view, then, that there are probably world leaders, people in very high places, who have gone through what you have gone through, and they're keeping their mouths shut.
When we say leaders, we're talking about leaders in particular fields.
We're not talking about necessarily about political leaders.
Government leaders.
You don't think Newt Gingrich has made the run?
No, I don't think so.
We're not talking about government leaders because there's still a lot of preliminary work to be done.
In democratic societies, people who are in power today are not going to be in power tomorrow, and they're not going to have that much influence.
As a matter of fact, the people who are going to be in power when this occurs may not even have any name recognition today.
But people in commerce and manufacturing and medicine, science, The prominent leaders in the field, or at least experts, if not world-recognized figures, at least experts.
Alright, so I take it then that you went through this entire POEI program, and you know, you have knowledge about why they have been visiting, why they have been testing, and why they are here, and what they intend to do.
That's a lot of knowledge.
I have an overview.
They gave me an overview and asked me to write a white paper so that the people of humans would have a general picture, at least, of what is occurring even as the pieces start falling into place.
You wouldn't be able to see it by just the small... It's like a jigsaw puzzle.
You're not going to be able to see the total picture from one or two or three pieces.
But if you look at the cover of the box, you get kind of an idea of what you're building.
Wow!
Alright, hold on, Philip.
Philip Kruff is my guest.
And he knows a lot more than we do right now about why they're here and what they intend.
At least the overview.
And we'll get as much of that as we can.
And Philip Croft once again, Philip, you must have said something like,
you know, look, if I go down and I carry your message, they're going to think I'm out of my mind. They're going to
think I've lost my mind, that retirement has driven me right over the edge or
something. I don't know. I don't know how you'd put it, but surely kind of like in the movie, Oh,
God, you must have said, Why me?
And how am I going to, how in the world am I going to get this message out?
Well, I would have thought the same thing and I don't blame people for thinking that and I suspect that my friends, my people I know at the times, they probably think that I'm gone bananas or delusional or whatever.
No, that's... I knew there was going to be a price to pay.
Yep.
Now, have you done a very careful examination of all this in your own mind with regard to that?
In other words, you are absolutely, positively convinced that this was not a delusion.
This was not some quirk of the mind that has been so stable for so many years suddenly slipping.
I have considered that.
I know my memories are there.
I believe in them.
At the same time, I want to keep an open mind.
It's been suggested by other researchers who have talked to me.
They talk about strange things that I knew nothing about since I'm not in the field.
They talk about memory screens, and they're talking about some other esoteric things that I didn't know what they were talking about.
And they suggested various things.
The memories are there in my mind.
And there was no attempt... How did they get there?
Yeah, there was no attempt on their part to screen or cause you to forget.
I think that it might be suggested that in the early stages, the ones you talked about, where humans were simply abducted for medical purposes, you could understand why there would be a suggestion or a screen put there to cause the person to forget the details under those conditions.
But now, of course, you were abducted for a very different reason.
And so your memories, of course, are left intact.
That's my perception, yes, absolutely.
Uh-huh.
All right.
This indoctrination, what did it explain about them, their purpose, and what you should do?
Okay, they said that there's an intergalactic federation of sovereign planets, is what they call it.
And they said that they monitor various civilizations that they come across, and when a particular
civilization is on the verge of being able to go into space, I mean really deep space,
not just a few weather satellites, at that point they assess the civilization, or they've
been studying it most likely for some time, and they've already determined whether or
not that species is suitable for going into space, because not every species is allowed
into space.
I can imagine that.
There are aggressive species that are warlike that are not allowed because there are no
weapons allowed in space.
Space is a place of, the way they said it, is a house of peace.
They have determined that mankind, humankind, they have been deemed worthy with some reservations of being allowed to continue and they have advanced to the point where we're ready to go into space so that at that point they determined that contact now is required.
Because no one really is allowed to go into space without this contact the way I understand it.
So you, in effect, have become an ambassador.
There are two types of people, they explain, that they have been taking recently.
And several hundreds, I suspect close to a thousand, under a thousand, but certainly hundreds.
Yes.
And there are two types of people.
Well the first group consists of very influential people worldwide from every field of human
endeavor and they share one very important attribute and that is credibility, the capacity
to influence not only their professional peers but also vast segments of the population.
And these are the people who have been named, they have been given the title of Ambassador.
Ambassador?
Yes, Ambassador.
These are the very important people.
Then there's a secondary group which I belong to and they gave us the title of Deputy Envoy.
And basically we're chosen for kind of more minor roles.
And in my case, I was chosen to write what they called a white paper to just kind of give a general overview of what the people can expect as the process of contact begins to take place and then does take place over the next 10 to 12 years.
Can you describe, do you know the process that is going to continue?
Because it is already underway, obviously.
You're here, so what is going to unfold over the next 10 to 12 or 15 years?
How's it going to happen?
Well, they said there's a timetable in place.
And the way I understand it, I wasn't quite sure at first, but I got some confirmation.
There's kind of a timetable.
These ambassadors will be drawing up plans on how they intend to go about carrying out their I wish there were a better word than that.
In fact, I even said that in a book.
I couldn't come up with the right word besides assignment or duties because it sounds like we're being dictated to, and that's not true.
This is all kind of voluntary.
This is all kind of voluntary.
Everybody is willing to do this.
And these ambassadors have been given, I think, three years to draw up their proposals.
That seems like a long time, but most of them are working people.
They certainly can't do it at work.
They have to do it in their spare time and so forth and so on.
What are they proposing?
Are they proposing the ways that they believe, at least in their particular area, contact or integration would occur with the least Well, they hope that the people with the credibility will be able to influence large segments of the population and at the same time serve as moderating voices so as not to cause worldwide alarm.
And then these ambassadors have very important assignments to, as I say, influence their peers in science, say, this is going to happen.
And then also make contact with government leaders.
They have to be citizen statesmen, I guess, to be able to have that contact with government leaders.
Or in your case, journalists.
Yes, well, actually the Deputy Envoys are not really going to play any part at all, or very, very minor parts in trying to influence people.
In other words, I'm not trying to convince or persuade anybody.
That's not my job.
My job is simply to, they said, tell the story.
And the ambassadors are going to be the ones who are actually going to lay the groundwork and then uh... they're gonna give him three
years and then then the people who are going to be submitted to their chain of
command and they have a uh...
uh... a formal chain of command in which the other proposals go to the
first of all for the p o e i uh...
uh... people and then from there it goes to there's a another higher
committee called the ad hoc committee for
coordination of earth contact i believe it's called and each uh...
that that way that would be for earth but each ship that's monitoring a planet
would have uh... similar ad hoc committee for uh... you know whatever
their planet they're monitoring and then uh...
and then from there uh... it goes to uh... so it is a well let me finish that
It goes then to the, what did they call it, the Space Exploration Operations Center on each of the planets of the various species that are monitoring a certain planet.
In this case, the names of the species that monitor this planet, they are called, I call them verdants.
I guess you could call them verdantees.
I don't know.
They said they are from a planet that would translate into English as verdant.
And I haven't looked it up in my dictionary recently, but I think verdant means lush and green or something like that.
So that's the translation.
And then there's the umbrella organization of the Intergalactic Federation of Sovereign Planets.
And then each of these proposals will be gone They'll iron out any difficulties in timing or things like that so that these people then can fulfill their assignments.
The Deputy Envoys, as I say, like myself, we have just certain skills that they want.
I'm not sure what those skills are.
In my case, it's just that they wanted someone to write this white paper.
To me, a white paper smacks of very dry, formal type of thing, so I chose to just go ahead and write the book and tell the story, the way it happened, or the way I remember it.
So it was all pretty much told in the first person?
Yes.
What a remarkable, incredible story.
Now, the LA Times City Desk goes 24 hours a day, right?
Yes.
Good chance they're sitting there listening to you right now.
Um, and probably laughing.
You think so?
Um, newspaper men are by nature skeptics, and quite frankly, if the roles were reversed, I'd feel the same way.
I'd feel this guy's, you know, he's...
Any number of things.
Who knows?
Okay, well you had to know, before you even began to tell the story, much less write the book, that that would occur.
And so you were prepared for it?
I was prepared to become the pariah, although at this point I was prepared to pay the price,
but I didn't realize exactly how much a price that would be, but it's pretty severe actually.
Alright, we are a planet.
That though I must admit things are a little better presently, we nevertheless continue to have wars, we have nuclear weapons mounted atop ICBMs that reach across continents around the world, still have the ability to blow ourselves to smithereens, worried about biological poisoning and attacks, and as a matter of fact, There's a story this morning about the worry about biological warfare from Iraq.
As a matter of fact, it's the top story.
It says, Britain on alert for anthrax attack.
Now, I guess we have our good points, human beings, but you said one of the goalposts was whether people were ready to enter this great, galactic, peaceful federation.
How can you say that we're ready?
How can they?
They said that at first, when they first began observing humans, they felt that we would not pass muster.
That they saw a very savage species and that we really wouldn't fit in.
After longer study, further study, They describe humans as the most diverse species they have ever come across.
They have never seen pure evil existing in a species side by side with people like Mother Teresa.
And so when they saw this gentler side, they saw the fine works of art and the music and the literature and the wonderful architecture, they knew that there was a nobility about the species that they felt was worth salvaging and redeeming.
But this is the area of the human nature that they hope to redeem while eliminating that other, darker side of the human nature.
And they themselves do not interfere in the internal affairs of any planet.
Prime Directive.
Pardon me?
What Star Trek called the prime director.
Is that what that is?
Yeah.
My wife's a Star Trek fan and my daughter.
I've seen a few of them, but I don't know.
Anyway, so my question was, well, then you're going to, you know, you're going to take care of these people?
And they said, no, absolutely not.
That's your job.
But when they see the good people of the world, and they estimate that at 80%, they figure all the mischief in the world, the crime, the mischief, the international terrorism is... Well, it's actually a pretty large percentage, about 20%, which is a lot of people.
It is, but still 80%.
80% they figure are very...
Decent human beings so what would have happened had we not passed muster?
they They do not
Believe in In they don't deal in pain or cruelty or death. They simply
isolate And there were cases
I was told where a warlike species had developed the intelligence had evolved to the point where they could
actually get into space And...
And they simply use their intelligence to simply isolate that species until it evolves to the point where it is ready to get along with its neighbors.
You know, there was really a strange story not long ago out of NASA.
A memo which said that all manned missions going off planet to the moon, Mars, or anywhere else had been cancelled.
I mean, that was an actual memo from NASA, and a great human cry went up.
And the next day, Daniel Golden, the director of NASA, changed that.
But for that day, you know, I was sitting here thinking, have we been told by somebody to stay home?
I mean, it really kind of sounded like that.
And it brings to mind what you just said.
Yeah, I don't know.
All I know is that they are capable of I think I get the picture.
Phillip, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
When we come back, we will indeed open the lines shortly and let people ask questions.
What an incredible story.
and all of a sudden their satellite stuff starts falling from the skies and...
I think I get the picture. Phillip, hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
When we come back, we will indeed open the lines shortly and let people ask questions.
What an incredible story. Nice to know that some humans, some of them, have a softer side.
Incredible story.
And I am indeed honored to have you on the program and have you laying the story out for us this morning.
I really am.
I've got some, actually a million faxes, but I'm going to lay a couple of questions on you and then turn you over to the audience.
How's that?
Okay.
Hey Art, Philip stated that he never read anything on UFOs and so forth because he had no interest in the subject and still hasn't read much because there is so much out there and he doesn't know Uh, who is truthful or not.
Now, he mentions that when he was standing next to the table talking to the alien, he states, uh, that from all he read and had heard, he assumed he was there to be examined.
Is this not inconsistent with his story?
Is that a question to me?
I guess so.
In other words, he's saying you haven't read much.
From what I have read in the mainstream press, I have read only about this in the mainstream press and seen it on TV.
I have not read anything in In other words, you didn't go out of your way to study the field of ufology and so forth?
No.
Anything that the general population knew through the mainstream press, that's what I knew.
I think that's fair.
I think about any walking American who's not had his head in the sand knows about abductions and knows the general A tenor is that you are abducted and physically examined or treated in some manner.
Alright, so that's fair.
Now, what about your wife?
What about your daughter?
What about your family and friends?
Didn't anybody miss you and call the police?
As I explained, my wife was away from home during that period.
My daughter does not live at home.
My daughter is a grown and she lives in another city.
Friends?
I mean, three days, that's a long time.
Mail piles up.
You'd be surprised how much I lost contact with...
In retirement.
Yes.
I'm basically just sitting here at my house in front of my computer out in the garage
with my tools in the yard.
I go actually weeks without having contact with any previous colleagues.
Fair enough.
Alright, this is truly an intriguing account I'm hearing.
Just one question, and that is, you were told a great many things, obviously, many of which you've already told us.
I'm sure the complete account of which is in your book.
How do you know that you were told the truth?
I have no proof to offer at all.
Not proof.
Truth.
In other words... Oh, how do I know that I was told the truth?
Yes, sir.
How do you know that everything they told you about why they're giving you this assignment and what they have in mind for us and what they have determined about us, how do you know all of that is the truth?
I don't.
I take their word for it.
They treated me with compassion, with consideration.
The way I size them up, they're gentle people.
I've been accused, of course, of being a devil who has come in contact with fallen angels.
Of course, oh yes, of course.
I have a crowd.
They're here, believe me.
But I mean, aside from that, I'm asking about your own... Here you are, a newspaper...
editor and surely as you listened to them as you dialogued with them as you got this
indoctrination you called it, you were judging their credibility as you went along.
Sure.
Obviously.
Sure.
I accepted what they told me.
I can't make it any simpler than that.
I trust them.
It's just I size them up just as people do with other people.
Fair enough answer, sure.
Alright, one more from Campbell, California.
Art, did these creatures, word he used, eat anything or drink anything?
Did they consume anything while you were there?
They did not.
They told me that they have one meal every 36 hours.
We're talking here about Earth hours, of course, because they describe their planet.
Their planet is, I forget exactly how much larger than Earth.
It's a little bit farther away from Their sun than ours is, so the heat is about the same.
Their rotation, or revolution, I forget which one that would be, their days are 55 Earth hours long.
Their years are approximately 1,000 Earth days long.
I think I put this on the calculator one time and I figured out that they have 400 and some
55 Earth hour days in their year and I think I figured out...
I'm getting a little groggy I've been up since 6 o'clock this morning.
Where was I going with this thing?
Well, you were just referencing their time to our time.
Yeah.
Okay.
Listen, I appreciate your staying up.
This is such an important story.
One last question.
Did they provide you with food, sustenance, or anything during the time you were there?
Yes, absolutely.
And actually, that's what we're talking about, their eating habits.
They eat or consume one meal every 36 Earth hours.
I haven't figured out how many hours that is for them.
But they did provide me with a large variety of foods that I was familiar with, very delicious foods,
and I found out that actually this was, I'm not much of a meat eater, so I turned down their
sausages and their ham and stuff like that, and I stuck to the other things.
But then I found out that it's all made from a plant material that is hydroponically grown
and processed and that they themselves don't chew this stuff like a cow chews its cud,
but they also make vast varieties, even more varieties than we have, to satisfy a very
sophisticated palate.
but they are vegetarians, they don't eat animals of course, they don't kill other animals,
it's beyond their capacity I think to kill sentient beings.
Boy, if this was a delusion it was a damn detailed one.
That's um, actually I spent quite a bit of time in the book discussing the delightful food.
In fact, I made a joke one time.
I said, where do you guys get this stuff?
Is there a supermarket in the neighborhood that I don't know about?
out, you know, and so I spend a little bit of time on plant material that is hydroponically
grown and processed and that they themselves don't chew the stud like a cow chews its,
this stuff like a cow chews its cud, but they also make vast varieties, even more varieties
than we have to satisfy a very sophisticated palate.
But they are vegetarians, they don't eat other They don't eat animals of course. They don't kill other
animals. It's beyond their capacity I think to kill sentient beings.
Boy, if this was a delusion it was a damn detailed one.
That's um, actually I spent quite a bit of time in the book discussing the delightful food.
In fact, I made a joke one time.
I said, where do you guys get this stuff?
Is there a supermarket in the neighborhood that I don't know about?
I spent a little bit of time on the food, but I never did see them eat.
But they kept me supplied with as much as I wanted.
And then when I found out that the meat was not really meat, it was plant material and the desserts were not I passed on them because I'm idle, I don't burn up many calories so I have to watch so I don't get a big waistline and they said that I could eat as much as my appetite allowed and my metabolism would remain the same and my body mass would remain the same.
I can hear a lot of people out there saying, beam me up right now, I'm ready for that.
I should write a verdant cookbook, except I can't get hold of their plant material.
Alright, here come the people.
First time caller on the line, you're on air with Philip Krupp.
Hi.
Hi, is this me?
Yes, only you know that for certain, but it sounds like you.
Where are you, dear?
Alright, I have crucial additional information.
Okay, I'm asking where you're calling from.
Oh, this is so crucial, please let me remain unhonest.
You can remain anonymous and still tell us what point you're coming from.
Okay, Salt Lake City, that'll identify me in some quarter.
Alright.
Okay, I have crucial additional information for Mr. Croft, including the answer for you and Mr. Hoagland to why Phoenix.
I have a data bank that I've been collecting for a number of years, and you've been told the truth, Mr. Croft.
This is very real.
So I need to connect with you if we can, you know, protect my identity for the time being until I can tell you my story.
Thank you sir.
Slow down for me.
Slow down for me.
H-A-Y-H-O-U-S-E dot com.
Hay House dot com.
one more thing. Slow down for me. Slow down for me. www.hayhouse.com.
Hayhouse.com. Yes, do you have a phone number? I'm not connected to the chat.
Ma'am, please hold on a second.
Phillip, do you have a personal email address? Thank you.
Um, I do, but I don't really want to give it out.
I don't blame you.
If Hay House is screening the important mail from the non-essential mail for me, and I prefer to do it that way, they also have a 800 phone number, which is 800-654... 800-654... 5126.
5126.
800 phone number which is 800-654- 800-654-
5126.
5126.
Alright, there you are ma'am. So that's, that's your...
First time callers call area 702-727-1222.
Contact me, personally.
You can do that.
My email address is public and you can write to me or whatever you want to do and I'll take it from there.
Phillip, are you getting a lot of mail?
A lot.
I'm getting some.
Some.
How long has this book been out now?
It just basically started hitting the bookshelves, I think, the bookstores, I think, early February.
It just started out, but probably didn't get widely disseminated until well into February.
All right.
The name of the book is The Contact Has Begun.
What an intriguing title.
You may not I may not have picked it, but it's a good one.
And a lot of people are gonna want to read it.
Now, available generally now in bookstores across America, is there an 800 number people can order your book from?
Well, they can order through the publisher itself, Hay House, by calling the 800 number, 654-5126,
or through the internet, hayhouse, www.hayhouse.com.
It's also, I know it's in B. Dalton, I know it's in Barnes & Noble.
It's in the large new age bookstores.
And I don't... That's the only ones that I know about.
There are some that... I've checked some bookstores, but smaller ones that don't carry it.
All right.
Well, anyway, folks, 1-800-654-5126.
If you want to order the book and can't find it in a bookstore, otherwise be Dalton and no doubt other bookstores as time goes on.
Could I inject something here?
You may.
This is regarding the book.
I didn't even read the book after I got it because I've read it so many times on proof and everything else and I was reading it recently and I discovered an error there that I'm going to catch on that I'm going to fix on the next printing in which I caught a minor error that I was talking about the radius of the universe at 15 billion light years and I think that's really the I refer to it as the diameter, and the diameter is actually, I think, twice that, which is about 30 billion light years.
And we're going to correct that on the... Do you believe the universe, in effect, is a circular thing that you would eventually double back?
You know, I don't have any information on that.
I'm just accepting what I know.
What you were told.
Fine.
No, actually, I wasn't even told that.
That was basically my error.
I was going by what I know generally from the side of the universe and what I understand through reading the mainstream press.
Alright, I've got you.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Philip Trough.
Hi.
Good morning.
I, um... Where are you, sir?
Oh, I'm calling in northern Michigan.
All right.
And I've got so many questions that I'd like to ask about what they say about us.
For example, do we have an afterlife?
What about our environmental crisis?
And what about, uh, why are they... Well, wait a minute.
Slow down.
These are... Animal mutilation.
Okay, well, slow down.
Okay.
These are good questions.
Um, did they say anything about an afterlife?
They actually said quite a bit about that and I devoted a chapter to that.
They said they have proven the existence of a soul.
A soul?
And that they basically believe in God and they From what I understand, they know that God does exist.
I myself was an agnostic, and I was very stunned to hear this.
And actually, it was such a stunning revelation that I devoted a chapter in the book to it.
Has it changed your own belief?
Yes, it has changed my belief.
I have not gone out and started going to church nor become a religious zealot or anything like that.
The way I understand earthly religion, and I have no background in religion whatsoever, The belief is based upon faith, and faith is basically a belief in something for which there is no evidence or that can't be proven.
I don't believe on the basis of faith. I believe on the basis of their advanced
Intelligence and technology and if they say it's true it must be true. I take their word for it
All right, call are your second question?
Either the environment why I mean if they're worried about our environmental crisis
And if they're going to help and also about why are they doing the animal mutilation all right one at a time
We are in big time environmental trouble.
There's no question about that.
Was it covered?
Yes, they did mention it briefly in talking about the problems of the earth.
They mentioned the rape of the environment.
Nothing was said to me at all about animal mutilations.
A lot of people, Philip, think that animal abductions and mutilations are simply A way to test the environment.
In other words, to see what's going on in the food chain, whether it's affecting genetics and so forth and so on, without doing these type of invasive experiments on human beings.
That's just a, you know, it's a theory.
I have no knowledge of it.
All right.
Hold on.
Hold it right there.
A little prop is my guest.
And I've got tea.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Phillip, you remind me of somebody else I had the honor to interview, Colonel Corso.
And I don't know whether you've heard of Colonel Corso or not,
but he is a man who was in the military, is retired, and told a very detailed story about the retrieval of alien
artifacts from Roswell, New Mexico, along with bodies.
And his job, he worked in the Pentagon.
was to integrate this alien technology slowly and carefully into private industry.
He told a remarkable story. He was a remarkably credible person, just like yourself.
And one almost has to wonder if he was not on a similar mission.
It's a pretty good question based on what you've told me about why they brought people of your stature.
I've seen... I don't know anything about them.
I have seen his book.
The Day After Roswell, yes.
Yeah, and as I say, I started hanging around the New Age book sections a little bit, and then I was just overwhelmed by it.
I picked up a few, I scanned a few, but didn't buy any.
And there's just too much for me to get an education at my age.
And that's something that I won't even speculate on.
That's up to him.
I'm not speculating on anybody who may have been recruited.
Let me hit you with a hard one.
There are going to be those out there who are going to say, look, here's a guy, really credible, 30 years in the newspaper business, one of the biggest papers in the country, editor.
Copy editor, not the editor.
Copy editor, I understand.
Nevertheless, retired early.
Really missed what he did and thought something up like this to write about.
There'd be that rap.
What do you say to those people?
They're entitled to their opinion as long as they don't...
Start making up stories and defaming me.
They're entitled to their opinion.
I'm not going to try to convince or persuade anybody.
I'm sure there are a lot of people like that.
I'm sure that my former colleagues are having a big laugh.
Yeah, I'm sure they are.
When you were sent back, just before you were sent back, I bet you, I would have had a question particularly after three days to think about it.
Look, you want me to go and write this white paper or this story.
You want me to tell people what you have said.
Give me something to carry back.
Give me some kind of proof, you know, some artifact, some anything to help me sell To the people, and I don't mean by selling a book, but you know, the story.
To help validate the story.
Did you ever say anything like that?
Never did.
Never occurred to me to steal an ashtray.
Or a towel.
Have you had moments to regret that?
Pardon me?
Have you had moments to regret that decision not to take an interview?
Well, it would be nice to have proof.
It would be very nice to have proof.
I have no proof.
As a matter of fact, they even sent me back in.
I wear jockey shorts.
I was taken up in my jockey shorts.
The shorts they provided me were boxer shorts, but I came back in my jockey shorts.
I didn't even bring back a pair of their boxer shorts.
No hospital gown?
Nothing?
Nothing.
Alright.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Phillip H. Cross.
Hi.
Hi Art, it's an honor.
I'm calling from Michigan.
Yes ma'am, glad to have you.
My question to Philip is, during your time with them, I have two questions exactly, did they ever mention anything about a dimensional shift or a consciousness shift since they believe or they can prove the soul, you know, we've heard about this veil over our memory.
So, did they mention anything to you about a dimensional shift for humans or anything like that?
No, and I don't even understand the concept, quite frankly.
No, they never mentioned anything like that.
Did they give you any... Did they seem to have any idea of what was going to happen here on Earth?
In other words, did they know the direction we're going?
Did they have any reading on our future?
Or were they basing what they said to you purely on what they had observed thus far?
I asked about that.
What can we expect?
And they gave me a very rosy picture about the future.
Not predictions, simply...
Uh, let's see, um, speculations as to what they expect based upon their experiences with other species.
Alright, but it was not really a look into the future.
No.
It was just sort of a, based on your present trends and what we know about other species we have watched.
Right.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Uh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Croft.
Hi.
Hi, this is Corey from Orange County, California.
Yes, sir.
I had a question.
I was wondering if they had revealed that some of our current technology came from them and has been rationed out to us as they feel we're ready for it.
Well, I just covered that, the Corso story.
Did they mention anything about integration of technology without mentioning, of course, the kernel?
That they have already shared with us?
Yes.
No, as a matter of fact, I got the impression that they have not.
And in fact, when they begin to share technology, it's just simply going to be to just get us jump-started.
And we are basically going... Our destinies are in our own hands.
Do you feel that you will see landings or contact, mass contact, in your lifetime?
Um, gee, well, it depends what my lifetime is.
So assuming you live another 12 years.
Yes, I expect that the process will, it goes according to the timetable.
There is a timetable.
If it goes according to the timetable, it will be, everything will have been completed
by the end of the first decade of the 21st century.
Wow.
All right.
There have been incredible sightings.
Phoenix, where something gigantic was seen over the city.
I saw it on the TV, yeah.
Yeah, Gulf Breeze, where they get daytime sightings of discs.
I have seen things myself, Philip.
There's no question about it.
I've seen them.
Now, that changes you a little bit when you see them, and I suppose makes you less objective.
And frankly, I don't care.
I'm a talk show host.
I don't have to be objective.
But I've seen these things myself, and I know something's going on.
I know for sure something's going on.
I certainly had nothing like your experience.
But something's going on.
Did they say anything to you about these sightings and appearances?
Is there a reason for this?
They didn't give me any reason.
In our discussions, they mentioned their shuttlecraft, and they said that the shuttlecraft have occasionally been spotted on Earth.
I got the impression, if I recall, that not to the degree though, that has been reported. In other words, a lot of
the reports were natural phenomenon and phenomena. Of course.
But they said yes, sure, they've been observed on occasion, they said. They didn't go into
great detail about it. Well, when substantial contact begins, Philip,
do you have an idea of how it will occur? According to their timetable, there is going
According to their timetable, there is going to be a summit conference first, and the ambassadors
to be a summit conference first. And the ambassadors will have informed government leaders, and
will have informed government leaders, and government leaders will then converge on this
government leaders will then converge on this spot.
spot for a period of a week or so to get acquainted and things like that.
And then the representatives will stay behind, the representatives of the government leaders,
the government leaders go back to their capitals, and the representatives will stay behind and
they will hammer out the details of the announcement.
The formal entry into the Federation.
There's going to be a period of study.
Do you have any sense, time-wise, of when that will occur?
When this summit will occur?
Yes, according to the timetable, the reports are supposed to be done, I think, around 2001.
Then they get processed up through the chain of command, about 2002.
Then the various ambassadors are going to start going into action, supposedly.
And then they'll lay the groundwork for the Or the Summit Conference.
The Summit Conference, I think, will take place somewhere around... I'm trying to remember it from the book.
Around 2005, I believe.
But then there will be, again, more indoctrination and things like that of the representatives from Earth.
That will last for another several years and then around 2008, 2009 in there, I believe.
And again, of course, I'm going to have to go back to the book to read it.
And this is a general timetable.
Of course, it's not...
It's not very far away.
Yeah, and it's not set in stone either.
It does, however, make sense to me.
In other words, if you were going to try to establish contact in the manner that you have described for the reasons you have described...
Yeah, it makes sense.
You would start with people like yourself and ambassadors and there would eventually be a summit meeting and then I guess the information would filter finally down to the people.
The question, of course, is what governments will do.
Right.
And I don't have a whole lot of confidence that they are going to handle it well.
Again, that's up to the people of Earth.
They're going to have to iron out their differences because the undesirable, the darker elements, these people value character.
There are people on this Earth, as I say, it's a very, very diverse species who don't have any character.
People are going to oppose this, I was told.
I thought, well, who's going to oppose something like this?
People who have power bases to lose, who don't want this.
Well, if character counts, and the people who have power are not going to want to give it up, then the first to be vaporized would be President Clinton.
I don't know.
I won't speculate on anything.
No, leave that to me.
I won't speculate on anything.
All I know is that they are not going to weed out the evil people of the Earth.
The people, the good people of the Earth are going to have an opportunity to do that themselves so that the good people of the Earth can go into space because certainly the The darker elements of the species are not going to be allowed.
They are not going to prevent it.
It's the people of Perth who are going to have to prevent it.
If they don't prevent it, then it's going to affect the whole species, the whole population.
Wow.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Philip Cross.
Hi.
How you doing?
I'm alright, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Nommel Park.
Alright.
California.
Right.
Um, I just wanted to say, uh, Mr. Cross, I admire your, uh, courage to speak about your experience.
So do I. So do I. I primarily, uh, was wondering, do they have affairs, too, like our president?
You sound like me.
Um, as a matter of fact, do they have sex?
How about that?
That is, um...
Yes, that was explained to me in great detail what their sexual practices are.
And it's in the book.
It is, and they do not have marriage, but it's rather complicated and I can't answer it in a few sentences.
So in other words, they have relationships without the benefit of marriage.
They do, and they have multiple... Well, maybe our president will be one of the first to take it up.
They have multiple partners throughout their lifetimes as well.
Uh-huh, maybe then he's in place for a very good reason.
Who knows?
I can't help you, it's a late hour.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Philip Kroff.
Hi.
Hi, how are you doing?
I'm doing okay, where are you?
I'm in Ontario.
Ontario, Canada.
Yes, sir.
Alright.
Normally, uh, I wouldn't believe much of what Philip was saying if I hadn't been in that exact place myself in June of 95.
You have been where he has been?
I've been in that same place, that same ship, that same gigantic room with the high ceiling and all those tables and people in hospital gowns, yeah.
Oh my!
Uh, for what reason were you there?
Were you there for an examination?
No, I was, um, sort of an uninvited guest.
So that would probably explain why I got to see them eat and Phillip didn't.
They don't eat the way that human beings type of eat.
But let's just say the tables are more of a dining room table than they are an examination table.
And, uh, you had a guy on there a while ago that said he was from Area 51, and you got your call cut off.
Said he was in the hospital now.
Well, you're referring to an old program now.
Well, like I said, that there's multi-dimensional beings that aren't what they represent themselves to be.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's a worry for us all.
In other words, that...
Then, Philip, what they told you was a great big setup.
But again, all your instincts as a newspaper man tell you that they were what they seemed to be, right?
I took them at their word.
That really is very, very important when you're contemplating contact.
I know my account also differs from the stories of others who have different beliefs and experiences, and I'm just reporting what I experienced and what I was told, and that's all I know.
East of the Rockies, not a lot of time, you're on the air with Philip Croft, hi.
Philip, who recruited you?
What is the meat of your question, sir?
Do you think that Philip is an agent?
No, I think an agent for the aliens, yes.
Like, for his mother and for genetic possibilities, etc.
Alright, so... I have no knowledge of that.
Alright, so in other words, nobody, no other human being, in your opinion, pointed to you as a prospect for this?
There was no terrestrial recruitment?
None, none that I know of.
But again, my mind is not closed to anything anymore.
Yeah, I know the feeling.
Believe me, I know the feeling.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Proff.
Hi.
Hi, Eric.
Turn your radio off, if you would, and tell us where you're calling from.
I'm calling from Hawaii, hold on one second.
Hawaii, all right.
Yeah, it's very important you get your radio off, folks, because there is a delay.
Okay, I'm back.
Sorry about that.
All right, go right ahead.
I have two questions for you, Philip.
First one is, were there children on board?
Children?
Yes, children.
I personally did not see any children.
But there were well over 32,000 people aboard and I came in contact with a handful.
Second question, and I also have a comment or question for you, Art.
Second question, Phillip.
What do they describe as the undesirables?
You mentioned a second ago about Uh, certain power bases around the globe.
Specifically, a couple names that I've mentioned before.
Um, on a previous call.
I don't... He wouldn't have heard that, so... Okay, there are two, um... I don't know if I'm... Look, we're almost out of time, so you're just gonna... Okay, there are two power bases, Pembroke and Lone Star.
Did they mention anything?
Pembroke is planetary...
Most are in the United States.
Did they mention anything about that?
No.
They simply talked about the darker element of the human character.
I think we all know who those are.
And the people who represent that.
And we know that those are the people who are serial killers, who bring down airplanes as terrorists, who...
Who run governments without any human rights.
Philip, I know you're getting tired.
We're at the top of the hour.
I've got another hour.
If you wanted to stay, I'd keep you, but it sounds like you might be headed to bed.
I'm starting to fade.
I'm so honored you decided to come on my program and tell all of this.
It's been my pleasure.
Thank you, my friend, and I hope you sell a gazillion books.
I'm sure you will.
Thank you very much.
Philip Kroff, my guest.
Thank you very much, Philip, and good night.
And again, if you would like his book, Entitled, The Contact Has Begun.
Call 1-800-654-5126 or B. Dalton or whatever.
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