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March 4, 1998 - Art Bell

02:54:19

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Project Stargate - Dale Graff

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 4th, 1998.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, or a good morning as the case may be, wherever you are, and that is many, many places actually, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian islands out west to the Caribbean eastward.
	U.S.
	Virgin Islands, morning in St.
	Thomas, south into South America, north all the way to the pole, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	Well, well, well.
	Let me tell you what's coming up.
	Tonight, in about an hour, the man who coined, actually coined, the name Operation Stargate, the government's official remote viewing program, Adele Graff, is going to be my guest.
	And he'll come and talk to us about remote viewing.
	He is, in fact, a remote viewer and was an administrator for remote viewers.
	And so we'll get yet another angle on remote viewing.
	It's absolutely a fascinating thing.
	It always has been to me.
	Tomorrow night, we're going to have a very, very interesting guest.
	And his name is Bruce Rux.
	Now, he just wrote a book called Hollywood.
	Versus the aliens.
	The motion picture industry's participation in UFO disinformation.
	And the motion picture industry certainly has done an awful lot on UFOs and aliens and all the rest of it, haven't they?
	And then Friday night, Saturday morning, Dr. Robert White.
	Dr. White is the man, the surgeon, who Removed monkeys' heads and put them on other bodies.
	Now, when I talked to him earlier today, Dr. White had another name for it.
	I think he called it a body transplant, but I think the net effect was that one monkey head went, you know, from one monkey to another.
	He is also a medical ethicist and a very, very interesting fellow.
	So that'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
	I've been trying to get him on, as you probably know, for some time now.
	I'm looking forward to that program.
	Now listen to me.
	Last night, during the program, while the program was actually going on, and all day today, I continued to work on my studio cams until I got them right.
	And I finally have them right.
	Remember I told you previously that I am a little berserk about this kind of thing.
	And until I get something working just the way I want it to work, I will either... One of two things will happen.
	I will either break what I am working on or fix it.
	Now my odds have been getting better in recent years of fixing versus breaking, but I generally take it to that extreme.
	So I have my webcams working and I really want your comments on them.
	Last night, of course, they were working in and out and I didn't have them all set right and I didn't have white balances set up the way I wanted.
	Tonight, I've got it.
	I'm telling you folks, I've got it.
	So I want your comments on my studio cam now.
	How can you make them?
	You can go up there.
	This is something that if you have a computer allows you to see the program in progress.
	About every minute or so, 45 seconds, whatever it is, a new shot is taken from one of three cameras in here.
	And then streamed up to the net where it is disseminated worldwide.
	Along, I might add, with my show.
	You can get audio of my show.
	As a matter of fact, people with good computers can sit there and watch me and listen to the show on their computer at the same time.
	I'm not sure I approve of all this, mind you, or I think it's a good thing, but it sure is fun, and it sure is cutting-edge technology.
	So anyway, I labored long and hard to get these studio cams the way they are now, and I hope they look okay to you anyway.
	I certainly am soliciting comments.
	So, if you can, go to my website, www.artbell.com.
	That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L dot com.
	And scroll down to the bottom, you'll see Studio Webcam.
	Click on that.
	And watch it for a little while and watch the cameras sequence through and let me know how you think they do.
	I think at the moment we have one of the best webcams on the web anywhere, period.
	He says modestly.
	Man, I really worked hard on it.
	As I said, I worked right through the program last night.
	That was an interesting program, wasn't it?
	Just shows to go you how I Seemingly love remaining out on a limb, slowly sawing myself into oblivion.
	But it was fun!
	Now, obviously I didn't buy into a lot of what Seal Turnage had to say.
	But you've got to admit, she had zest.
	And there was something about her zest, and her love of what she was saying and doing, that just drove me to keep her on.
	And we had a lot of fun as the program went on.
	It got more and more.
	Interesting.
	He is a ball of fire.
	Oh, incidentally, we're also working... Somebody came up with a really cool idea the other night.
	And that is, for the hearing impaired, a scrolling text of what's being said on the show.
	Now, I would like to talk to somebody at CNN, because CNN Both the main CNN and CNN headline news are using some kind of scrolling text, a closed caption, and I don't think it's somebody typing in, I'm not sure, but the kind of errors that you see imply to me that it is not being typed in.
	And I've got some voice recognition software that might work, and anybody else out there with ideas, by all means get them to me or get them to My webmaster, you can send Keith an email up on the website.
	I am really intrigued with the idea of having a streaming, even if it doesn't get it exactly right.
	I can see there could be some terrible errors.
	Instead of clouds on the moon, it could read cows on the moon.
	Nevertheless, getting streaming text up there on the website, it seems to me to be a really good idea.
	And I think it would be neat anyway, so let us pursue that idea.
	If anybody out there, I know CNN must have some sort of technology, and I will try mine, and if you have something up your sleeve, then let us know.
	No. We like being innovators and that certainly would be an innovation.
	Coast to Coast AM. Sure it sounds great in the middle of the night.
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	Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
	At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do.
	And shout, and scream, and blog.
	And I think that's critical.
	And I think that's what's going to save the republic.
	I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us.
	And our country will remain strong.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Not everything is cut and dry.
	And I think people will look at events and say, who profits?
	Who benefits?
	And then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
	I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
	Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
	They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
	In order to do that, You need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what?
	They're right.
	We don't need this.
	We don't need that.
	So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
	Bottom line is people don't trust other people.
	And that's why they create all these things.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 4th, 1998.
	Okay, the news.
	nineteen ninety eight okay
	the news what is the news
	puerto rico is about to have another opportunity to become a state
	Thank you.
	The 51st state.
	Now, if I recall correctly, it was not that long ago that they voted down that golden opportunity.
	And now I think that I may be heard in Puerto Rico.
	If not, I know it's coming up soon.
	And I wonder how Puerto Ricans feel about this.
	I guess I could ask all of you.
	How do you feel about it?
	If you were now not a state, and you had an opportunity to vote to be a state or not to be a state, how would you vote?
	That is a really interesting question.
	I mean, there are states that look to possibly secede.
	Hawaii.
	Alaska.
	Texas.
	Oh, I've got a lot of A lot of news on Texas and none of it's any good at all.
	Supreme Court says sexual harassment at work can be between members of the same sex.
	And this story comes from a fellow who was out on an oil rig with three other guys and was threatened with rape and all kinds of other things.
	And I think the court has ruled properly, of course, Sexual harassment is sexual harassment is sexual harassment, right?
	Now, listen to me very carefully when I tell you that there is something very very bad going on in Texas and not just Texas but all across the country right now.
	I have received literally Hundreds of faxes and email from people about this flesh-eating bacteria.
	Our KTRH just here in Houston reported at 3.03 a.m.
	yesterday morning that five more deaths have been attributed to the flesh-eating bacteria.
	Five deaths today Why doesn't this get more coverage?
	And tonight I am asking precisely the same question.
	I think it was two or three days ago that I did, about an hour toward the end of the program, very tentatively, because I was getting so many faxes, so many emails saying, Art, this flesh-eating bacteria is here, meaning Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma, Connecticut.
	And you may recall that it scared the you-know-what out of everybody not too long ago.
	And then the medics, the doctors, the scientists came on and said, oh no, it's been with us forever, which I'm sure is true of strep.
	Not this particular variety.
	And that is, for some reason, it is converting into this thing that literally eats you alive.
	Here's another one.
	89 cases of strep in Texas.
	A run for your lives.
	That's what the person who sent me the story wrote at the top.
	Actually, it's a Reuters story.
	A bacteria that in some forms eats flesh has now killed 18 people in Texas in the past three months, according to the Texas Department of Health.
	It said 89 cases of Group A Streptococcus had been reported in that state since December 1st.
	Here's another one.
	Art, I have the latest figures on the Strep A outbreak in Texas.
	Count is now 89, 18 dead.
	The latest, a five-year-old boy in Houston.
	Now Houston is trying to reassure parents.
	They really don't have that much to worry about.
	I've not heard the latest news of the Leander near Austin child that has been diagnosed now with the Strep A. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.
	I won't even bother to read all of them to you.
	I've got so many.
	And my question, I guess, there's two.
	One, why are we not receiving this as a major national news story?
	from the major networks.
	Two, if the CDC is involved, which it would appear they are according to the calls I've been getting and email, that should make it a national story.
	Why would a bacteria that lives in many of us, a pretty good percentage of us, suddenly turn against us In such a horrendous manner, and having turned against us, why are we not hearing about it in the media?
	Now again, the scientists who came on the air after the last big outbreak, oh, it's no big deal.
	It is very rare.
	We are not having more cases.
	Remember that?
	They said, we're not having more cases than usual, it's just the media is reporting them.
	I don't believe that for a second.
	I wonder if you do.
	If you'd been in receipt of the number of faxes I had, you would be screeching the way I am right now about it.
	Here's another gem.
	Federal germ detectives say they have come up against now a rare super strain of tuberculosis that spread with alarming ease through two rural counties in Tennessee and Kentucky.
	From 1994 to 6, it struck 21 people.
	In the eight previous years, each of the two counties had recorded fewer than one case of TB in the total population of about 14,000.
	So I would say that the little things are beginning to turn against us.
	Why do you suppose that is occurring?
	Many of them are not new.
	It's like Fisteria in North Carolina, in the estuaries, spread now into the ocean.
	It's not new.
	Fisteria was an organism, half animal, half plant, that sort of was always there at the bottom of the estuaries, and only when a certain level and certain type of pollution reached them did they activate and begin killing fish.
	Bloody sores, all that sort of thing, attacking people, and now this story that is being very, very under-reported, and I'm being kind here, this flesh-eating bacteria outbreak of this disposes, what do you suppose is churning, why are the things that have always been here in Strep A, you know, it's with us, but now it's churning on us.
	What have we done to bring Strep A Alive.
	I use that term, of course, tentatively.
	But what have we done to bring this thing alive?
	And by the way, for the conspiratorial-minded out there, this late word from Dan in Lexington, Kentucky, Art, did you realize that today, March 5th, is a rather special day?
	There are now 666 days left Before the year 2000.
	Well, it's March 5th in some time zones out there, and somebody else out there might try and confirm what Dan says is true.
	That number, it just keeps popping up, doesn't it?
	Alright, we're going to go to open lines in the first hour, and again, look here.
	Go check out my studio cams.
	I work hard on these suckers, and I think I've got them about right.
	See what you think.
	And it got done at about four o'clock this afternoon.
	That's how long it took.
	And I just kept batting my head against the wall until finally, which occasionally does occur, the wall actually moved.
	And I think I've got it, but you can tell me that.
	Take a look at the website, see which thing.
	It's www.artbell.com.
	And if anybody out there has any thoughts on why these little things that previously were not active like This flesh-eating bacteria now are.
	I'd like to hear from you.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this somewhere in time.
	I'm going to be doing a lot of research on this.
	Bye.
	Ooh, and it's all right, and it's coming on.
	We gotta get right back where we started from.
	Love is good, love's a good song.
	Just look at those big eyes and get right back to where we started from.
	You remember that day, surely, when you first paid my way.
	I said no one can take your place.
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
	It's great to be here this morning, and I really mean that.
	Yesterday I was haunted because, you know when things don't work the way you want them to?
	I just can't stand it.
	It drives me absolutely up a tree.
	Somebody writes from New Jersey, aren't there are 52 states, Puerto Rico would be 53.
	Yes, Mike, but that assumes that Alaska and Hawaii or Texas don't leave us in the meantime.
	But you're right.
	Again, I ask, if you have the opportunity to vote now on statehood, I wonder how you would vote.
	We're going to do a whole national survey about that or something.
	All right, open lines now.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi there.
	I can't believe I caught in.
	I've been trying for some time.
	Well, here you are.
	Yes.
	Where are you, actually?
	I'm in Toronto, Canada.
	Way in Toronto.
	All right.
	Yes.
	I wanted to say, I think it's...
	Can I take a breath?
	No breaths.
	Okay, um... Yeah, of course you can take a breath.
	You know, just relax.
	That's the thing.
	Do you want to get on there?
	Relax.
	Don't worry about it.
	It's just two people talking.
	Yes.
	I wanted to say how much I enjoyed the program about the Titanic the other night.
	Oh, that was astounding, wasn't it?
	Yes, and I had an experience.
	I went to see the tall ship.
	They're old ships, old sailing ships.
	Right.
	And there was quite a few in the harbor, and I thought I'll choose one, because I couldn't tour them all.
	Sure.
	And I thought I'll go on the Inca.
	Okay.
	So I went on the Inca, and I can't see.
	I'm blind.
	So it was quite an experience to go and feel the ship and everything.
	And then I met the crew, and they sailed away.
	And the next thing I know, the Inca sank in the harbor, in Kingston Harbor.
	Holy mackerel!
	Holy mackerel!
	Well, uh, it's a good thing I guess you didn't solicit a ride, huh?
	That is the weirdest feeling!
	I know, it's like, it's like, um, it's like missing your plane and having it crash.
	Yes, and I wanted to say about this flash eating disease, we had a little boy die here in the hospital Emergency room just lately.
	They've cut the hospital services here.
	They're in Canada?
	Yes.
	Of flesh eating?
	Yes, and he had the flesh eating disease.
	He waited five hours to see a doctor.
	And by the time he saw a doctor, he died.
	Well, thank you very much for that.
	And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of call and email, hundreds of them, I'm telling you, and faxes that I'm getting.
	This is a big story.
	And somebody out there is intentionally ignoring it, not me.
	Something has happened.
	And no doubt, if they do begin running the story in the next few days, they're going to bring in some scientists who are going to say, well, we've always had this round and these numbers really are not out of line with what we've seen in previous years.
	Yes, they are way out of line.
	So this is a big story.
	And I'm going to follow it very closely.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, top of the morning.
	Hello, hello, hello.
	Turn your radio off, that's number one.
	Okay, I'll turn it off right now.
	Excellent.
	Hi, how are you doing, Art?
	Fine.
	My name is Terry, and I'm in Santa Fe.
	Yes, sir.
	Man, I'm a little nervous, too, so let me catch my breath.
	Okay, take a good deep breath.
	Okay.
	The reason I'm calling is you mentioned that It was 666 days till 2000.
	Well, that's what the faxer said.
	He said as of March 5th.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, I ordered a Steve Gibbs time machine, which came today.
	You got the time machine?
	Oh, you know what?
	I'm going to have Steve Gibbs back on.
	Really?
	Oh yeah, yeah.
	He wants to come back on, and I've got his number, and we're going to have him back on.
	I don't know, maybe in the next few days.
	Anyway, you've got your machine, huh?
	I just got it.
	I'm reading the instructions and I'm getting ready to maybe try it out.
	Not so much to travel through time.
	People out there, my friend, are not going to know what you're talking about because we had them on so long ago.
	Steven Gibbs is an entrepreneur, scientist, crazy dude, who has actually built, he claims, a time machine.
	He also has a time machine catalog.
	Did you get that first?
	Yeah, I did.
	I bought his book, and actually, I had a friend try to build one of his machines, but it didn't work.
	So, I think he made a mistake.
	Alright, well, that may well be.
	I mean, Stephen's got it down.
	So, we did, I don't know, a couple hours with Stephen, at least, and he's fascinating.
	I mean, he's an average guy, But he really claims, and he gives examples of people who have traveled in time with his machine, and you don't run into this very frequently.
	So, my question to you is, if it works, where are you first going to try to go?
	Well, you know, I actually have thoughts of wanting to travel dimensionally.
	In other words, travel to a higher dimension, versus traveling to another time.
	Because he claims that you can use it for that as well.
	Okay.
	In other words, we're supposedly in the third dimension, and I'd like to travel to the fourth
	or the fifth dimension, which supposedly exists right here now.
	We just can't see it.
	We can't feel it because it's like a different channel.
	Well, those deep thinkers like Dr. Michio Kaku agree.
	Uh-huh.
	So it's entirely possible.
	Now, Michio Kaku would say, no, we do not yet have enough energy to travel.
	But, of course, Stephen Gibbs' machine is a little different.
	And, I don't know, there are several who say it works.
	Anyway, so you may make a dimensional hop, huh?
	Well, we're going to give it a shot.
	But before you let me go, I just wanted to say one other thing about the The fact that it was 666 days to 2000.
	Yes.
	When you said that, my heart about jumped because when I got the machine, the UPS number, the last three numbers on it were... It's not a big deal about the number.
	It was more or less the synchronicity.
	I know.
	You want some more synchronicity?
	I'm not going to say who, but one of my guests in the next three days has a phone number that ends in 666.
	Well, that was the other thing.
	Somebody had called me, left a message, and their number had, the last three numbers were 666, and then I was driving home.
	Did you call them back?
	Uh, yeah, I did.
	But I, well, it was just somebody that called me.
	But then I was driving home, and, uh, the car that I was following, the license plate number was 666.
	Oh, you're, you've got to be kidding.
	No, no, if I'm going, this is, this is really kind of strange.
	I'm seeing these 666s all day, and then you, then you come on the radio and tell me that 666 days till 2000 and I'm going, hmm.
	Now isn't that synchronistic?
	The end is near.
	Take 666.
	Come with me to the millennium.
	Alright, I appreciate the call of synchronicity.
	Alright, well, good hearing from you.
	Thank you very much.
	666, it's all over the place.
	But it's like, um, I'll tell you what it's like.
	It's like when you buy a car, all of a sudden you begin noticing all the other cars.
	For example, if you get a brand new GeoMetro.
	I like Geos, so I use that comparison.
	Then you're riding around town, all of a sudden you see GeoMetros everywhere.
	It's like GeoMetro City.
	And I think that's what's occurring with 666.
	I mean, after all, that is a reoccurring number all over the place, right?
	I mean, at one point, consider My website would have had 6,666,666.
	And for some people, that's too much.
	six hundred and sixty six thousand six hundred and sixty six
	and for some people that's too much i mean that they're ready to faint
	coast to coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
	The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
	For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
	As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Noory and special guests.
	The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Bart?
	Yes.
	Oh, no way.
	Amazing.
	Fantastic.
	Yeah, I've got a pretty good theory as to what's going on.
	Good.
	I want to hear it.
	Where are you?
	Oh, I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
	Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
	That's almost hard to say.
	Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
	Yeah.
	Let me hear you.
	Manitoba's the province, and Canada's that... That's separated in the north, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Uh, let me hear you say, Unique New York, three times fast.
	Unique New York, Unique New York, Unique New York.
	Must be something about Canadians.
	You're the first one who's ever done that.
	Alright, what's on your mind?
	Well, uh, you're talking about... Are you guys still talking about this strange, fresh, flesh-eating disease?
	Or am I hearing a recording on my radio?
	No, we're talking about that.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, I've got a really interesting theory.
	I'll start with the frogs.
	You've noticed the mutations in the frogs as of late.
	The media has briefly touched on that.
	I meant to mention, I've got it in the other room.
	Someplace today, it rained frogs.
	I forgot to bring it in.
	Are you still there, Eric?
	Yeah, I'm here.
	I know exactly what's causing it.
	I don't know why they're raining frogs, but I do know why they're mutating.
	And it's the UVB rates.
	They're steadily increasing and... Why, you maniacal... By all means, don't take anything I say for truth until you find out for yourself.
	First of all, you're absolutely correct.
	That is exactly what's causing the mutations.
	They were saying that it was some sort of thing from snakes, you know.
	Oh, no, no.
	Oh, you wouldn't even believe what they tell us here in Winnipeg.
	We have it on the front page of our newspaper.
	They were saying, this boy had a frog in his hand and he was saying, he's not a freak, he's my friend.
	And they interviewed the head of the zoology department, I believe it was either the University of Manitoba or the University of Winnipeg, one or the other, and he had said that this was just a curiosity.
	But it's well substantiated fact, going back, I believe all the way back to 1978, and test after test have confirmed this.
	What they did was, they just took some, what are they, tadpoles, the eggs in the pond, put a UVB filter over half of them.
	And not the other.
	And not the other.
	And of course, what ends up happening is the ones with the filter survive and become healthy frogs and the other ones become mutated.
	Actually, the results of that test showed that a very high percentage of those exposed simply died.
	The few that lived mutated.
	Yeah, well, another thing that's very interesting is the way the UVB is indexed.
	Like, instead of giving us the milliwatts per meter reading, now that's the number we need.
	Instead of giving us that, they play all these games to justify their jobs.
	Like in Canada, the machine would cost less than $200, first of all, to measure milliwatts per meter.
	Instead, here in Canada, they're done in only two cities, Montreal and in Toronto.
	And they do the readings for the whole country, and they're not even based on any local daily readings.
	They factor in elevation... I know, I know.
	You watch.
	The day will come when they will be giving regular UV danger indexes, and people will stop going outside.
	Well, and before you know it, they're going to be eating Ed Dame's survival stuff.
	Well, it causes cancer.
	It's extremely serious.
	And that's partly why I think it's You know, we have alternate energy sources, and we've had alternate energy sources for over a hundred years.
	It's amazing that I get to talk to you, because a lot of people are familiar with these things, like Tesla.
	He came up with free energy a hundred years ago.
	Listen, listen.
	Okay, but anyway, I'll just finish the... Don't start me on that, because there's no reasonable current Free energy device that you can go out and get until there is... Oh, we have.
	There's buses in Vancouver.
	There's buses in San Francisco and Chicago.
	They run just on hydrogen.
	But one other thing about the frogs, though.
	The frogs that are devastated first, the first ones that go extinct, are the ones that have the least amount of photolase.
	And photolase is an enzyme that protects the DNA from the radiation and when you have the mutations
	happening with the radiation, the enzyme goes in there and corrects it.
	Now the smaller amount of that enzyme you have, the more mutated you as a species will
	become.
	Alright, I've got to leave the line now sir.
	Thanks for your time.
	Alright, I appreciate the call.
	Thank you.
	Now maybe there will be a campaign to get us used to the fact that fawns have like eight
	or nine legs. He's not a freak.
	He's my friend.
	Look at him.
	Bumpy little frog.
	All nine legs.
	Aren't they nice?
	He's used to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Where are you, pray tell?
	This is Ron in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
	Yes, sir.
	The Art Bell Chat Club coordinator.
	Oh, for Sioux Falls?
	Yes, sir.
	Wow.
	Welcome to the program.
	Yeah, we are just having our second meeting coming up here in a little over a week.
	These things are proliferating all over the place.
	We're number 28.
	Number 28?
	Are you really number 28?
	Yeah.
	Anyway, I'm glad to have you.
	Are you going to have a speaker?
	Not yet, but one of your guests coming up, I'd like to get a hold of him, maybe.
	Which one?
	Steve Gibbs.
	Steve Gibbs?
	You want to talk to Steve, huh?
	You know what?
	I think he would be ideal for a chat club, and when I call Steve, probably tomorrow, I will ask him about exactly that.
	How about that?
	Okay.
	I'll send you an email with my email address.
	Alright.
	And that I've talked to Tim and unfortunately my information hasn't gotten up on the web yet.
	Oh, it'll make it.
	Oh, I know that.
	They're updating that as quickly as possible.
	When we had our first meeting we got preempted here locally when he was on because a basketball game went late.
	But I did get a couple people show up that heard it at 5 o'clock in the morning.
	I don't know what I'd do without talk radio driving at night.
	That's when I listen.
	And I love driving.
	I think I'm a nocturnal human being.
	listen while I work every night.
	Alright, well generally I found that you talk radio, mix, whatever you're doing goes faster.
	I don't know what I do without talk radio.
	Driving at night, that's when I listen.
	When I drive, and I love driving, I think I'm a nocturnal human being, you know.
	All these years of doing this shift, I don't like driving during the day.
	I want to drive at night.
	Oh, give me night any day, compared to the daytime.
	Maybe I'm mutating?
	Geez, there's a thought.
	After all these years, maybe I'm mutating into some sort of nocturnal, half-feral human being.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Ooh, that's a deep good morning.
	You're going to have to yell at me.
	Where are you?
	I'm in St.
	Catharines, so I will not be here long.
	Oh, really?
	I'll call myself Diogenes because I'm looking for an honest man.
	All right.
	Where are you?
	You're leaving there because of what?
	Well, I have maintained silence for 30 years under the agreements that I made with the United States government.
	I think now is the time to speak if one has information.
	Alright, what is this in reference to?
	Go ahead, spow your guts.
	Well, I want you to think back to the mid-60s, when there was a plethora of sheep which were killed near a place called Dugway, Utah.
	I recall.
	If one saw the Andromeda Strain, One has some idea of the testing facility that was maintained at Dugway.
	What you were not told with regard to the death of those sheep was is that they died of a strain of botulism which had become capable of being spread by an aerosol.
	Since that time, we have had the introduction of Perhaps five or six, what were common bacterium, which have now become a fatal bacterium.
	Including this new flesh-eating... The flesh-eating Strep A, a disease called Staphylococcus 542.
	All right, look, I'm faced with going To the top of the hour here, let me ask you two key questions.
	One, were you personally involved in this program?
	Yes.
	Okay, so the information you're giving us is first-hand knowledge?
	Yes.
	All right.
	You're on a line where you're paying for the call.
	I'm going to give you a choice of holding you over and letting you pay for it, or I am going to come onto the line during the break and get your phone number and call you back so I'm paying for the call but I want to hear more or you can call at a future time.
	That's A, B, or C. Which do you prefer?
	Well, I'm going to have to call you back at a future time.
	I have some other commitments.
	I see.
	Alright, alright then.
	Alright then.
	Then be sure you do send me email privately or fax me or whatever and I will get you on the air and let you tell your whole story, alright?
	Very well.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	We're faced with the top of the hour coming up very quickly from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	more somewhere in time coming up I don't hear you asking what's going on I don't hear you
	asking little things like I don't hear you asking what's going on I don't hear you
	asking little things like Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	I have for two days now been laboring over my webcam situation and man are they working.
	Boy, are they working.
	So if you want to check out my studio cam and see the fruit of my labor, I'll go right ahead.
	You know, I just got a call from my boss who said that the last three numbers of his social security number are 666.
	So I told him, well, that means you're probably going to make a lot of money and go to hell.
	We're talking about frustrating electronic projects and Alan Corbett, that is, my boss and myself, have a very similar electronic background, and he reminded me of old agony.
	Those of you in electronics know, in years past, not, you know, not modern televisions, you know, top-of-the-line Protons or Sonys or whatever, but the older TVs, when I was young, I fancied myself as, you know, I could repair anything or break it.
	Then my average was about 60-40.
	Forty percent of the time I'd fix it.
	Reminded me of converging TVs.
	Any of you in electronics will recall the old days.
	It was project impossible.
	Televisions in that day really never did converge, for those of you who know what that is.
	That means that everything hitting the front of the tube is hitting it as it should and the colors look just right.
	Well, they never converged, and you used to have sort of green around either the left or right-hand side, or above or below objects, and it was an eternal challenge.
	It's like Rubik's Cube, in a way, trying to get a TV to converge in the old days.
	It couldn't be done.
	But I would spend hours and hours and hours trying, and I received several incredibly And that may account for my present behavior, uh, incredibly large shocks from televisions.
	Really don't know why I'm still alive.
	Forecasters failed to predict one element of the weather yesterday.
	In Croydon, wherever that is, it rained frogs.
	True story, folks.
	The strange event was included during a report by Suzanne Carlton at the BBC Weather Centre, at C-E-N-T-R-E, After a distraught woman rang the meteorological, uh, meteorological, the weather office at Bracknell at breakfast time to say that dead frogs were falling from the sky and covering her garden and the entire immediate neighborhood.
	Staff at the inquiry desk had thought the call was a hoax until the woman's attitude made them take her seriously.
	The national forecaster there said, quote, you do get reports of things getting sucked up by water spouts, which are rotating columns of water, or tornadoes that have to go over a lake or something with a lot of frogs on it.
	well i don't know if i believe that or not uh... and i certainly don't believe
	the current uh...
	uh... reports or lack of reporting is there to say with regard to the
	flesh eating bacteria
	goes to go to a m sure sounds great in the middle of the night
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Not everything is cut and dry.
	And I think people will look at events and say, who profits?
	Who benefits?
	And then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
	I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
	Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
	They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
	In order to do that, You need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right, we don't need this, we don't need that.
	So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
	Bottom line is, people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all this.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	Well, let me tell you now a little bit about Dale Graff.
	We're about to talk about remote viewing.
	It is a fascinating topic, and when they sent the literature on Dale Graff, it read about like this, Former Director of Government's Stargate Program Speaks Out.
	For 17 years, Dale Graff ...was the leading researcher and expert in the Defense Department in the area of parapsychological phenomenon, ESP, remote viewing.
	He founded and served as the director of the controversial and secret Stargate program, which received federal funding to investigate and use remote viewing to gather intelligence information.
	...you tonight how his expertise in parapsychological phenomena led to a Formation of what we now know to be Stargate.
	How the U.S.
	used psychics to gather information and intel.
	He's been in all kinds of alphabet agencies.
	We'll roll through that in a minute.
	He, Dale Graff, was interviewed on the Nightline program in 1995 when all of this was broken publicly.
	As a matter of fact, they did a full program on Stargate and Dale was one of those on Nightline.
	I talked to Dale I think about a year ago and he was not ready to come forward at that time.
	Here from, if I recall correctly, the state of Maryland is Dale Graff.
	Dale, welcome.
	Yes, hello, welcome.
	Didn't I call you about a year ago?
	Yeah, it was about a year, year and a half ago.
	I remember that.
	And we talked and for some reason then you weren't quite ready to say anything.
	How come?
	Well, I thought it was premature.
	I was working on a book, and I just simply wanted to concentrate on that.
	And it just didn't seem like it was the right time.
	Okay.
	Your book is now out, right?
	Yes, it is.
	All right.
	That would be the right time.
	All right.
	You have been in... Let's get this up front, because when it dribbles in later, people send me faxes and email, and they say, what a bunch of bunk.
	This guy was CIA or NSA or whatever.
	So, right up front, What agencies have you been in?
	Okay.
	I started off as the Air Force, which is a part of the Department of Defense.
	D.O.D.
	D.O.D.
	and then I eventually moved to the Defense Intelligence Agency.
	D.I.A.
	So I've only ever been in the Department of Defense.
	The program that originally initiated remote viewing research at the Stanford Research Institute in 1972 was initially sponsored by the CIA.
	But they bowed out about a year and a half after that.
	So the primary responsibilities for keeping the remote viewing research alive, and then later on when an independent group came in within government to help set up the in-house remote viewing group at the Army area in Fort Meade, Maryland, that was also DOD.
	Why did the first agency bow out?
	Well, my understanding, and I've had some long discussions with the principal researchers there, Dr. Harold Putoff particularly, that this was politically driven because the original funding that was covering the early exploratory work in remote viewing research was in some group that did a lot of other unusual activities, and that whole area was canceled.
	So that was one of the main reasons. It was part of an area that was simply demolished at the time, so to speak.
	So they lost their funding through that, and I'm sure there were probably other reasons, too.
	Well, one of the reasons that I've heard was the big accusation that we canceled it because it didn't work.
	Well, I was talking about the early discontinuation in 1973.
	I realize that, but I mean the ultimate end of the program.
	And by the way, I don't believe it's ended.
	We'll talk about that.
	But the ultimate reason for cancellation, and supposedly why the government is now no longer doing this sort of thing, is because it didn't work.
	Would you like to address that?
	Well, yes.
	The final report, the report that was finally published in 1995, Which was sponsored by the CIA.
	The CIA didn't do the report.
	They just paid for an external agency to do that.
	They recommended that the effort be discontinued.
	But that was only based on the last two years of the project activity, which by that time had been named Stargate.
	You named it Stargate?
	Yes, right.
	When I eventually became the chief or the director of the Stargate unit, In 1989, until I retired in 1993, when I first took over the area, I renamed it.
	Of course, this was fairly standard when you change responsibilities, to change names.
	In fact, it's almost automatic if you do this on any project.
	I coined the name Stargate.
	We had a group meeting on this, and there were a number of names considered.
	But none made any sense.
	I wanted to have a name that had a ring to it, that had some symbolism to it.
	I came up with this.
	It was kind of a compromise, but I came up finally with the name Stargate because I felt it symbolized an innovative project for reaching beyond I don't think so because the movie was probably in progress at the time.
	It just seemed like a good name to have.
	It is a good name.
	Now this is before that movie came out.
	There was a movie that came out a year or two later also called Stargate.
	I know.
	Did they borrow that from you?
	I don't think so because the movie was probably in progress at the time.
	It would be surprising if they borrowed it.
	I don't know.
	Well, you know, Stargate now, the implication... I interview a lot of very interesting people, among them Dr. Michio Kaku, one of the leading theoretical physicists in the country, and he believes that an actual Stargate is possible, that one could actually be built.
	Now, there are many ways of reaching out across the stars.
	Is remote viewing one of those ways?
	As far as time travel or accessing information at distant galaxies?
	Is that what you're asking?
	Well, let me put it this way.
	I have interviewed many, many remote viewers who were in your program.
	Right.
	Many of them, Dale, and I'm probably jumping way ahead here, and I am jumping way ahead, indicate to me that they have met all sorts of unexplainable entities Yes, well, I don't really know how to comment on that.
	The only thing I can say is that whenever you do any work in this mental framework, you will be bumping into perhaps symbolic aspects.
	Carl Jung, one of my favorite psychologists, would have terms like archetypes.
	These could be representative of something within the psyche.
	I really am not sure if they at all represent anything beyond that.
	I'm not saying they don't.
	So it could be the person's own psyche is what you're saying?
	Yeah, right.
	I kind of see them almost as aspects of oneself.
	Alright, well, the whole idea, as I understood it, of remote viewing was that a remote viewer separates himself, is trained to separate himself from his own imagination.
	Well, that's a nice idea.
	But I really don't think, in practice, that you can assume that that's what's happening.
	Things will come in.
	It's very difficult to separate yourself totally from other aspects of your psyche.
	But in the military program, that is, the Defense Department program, that's what they tried to do.
	That was the goal, wasn't it?
	No.
	Our goal was not that at all.
	The goal was just simply to, again, let me talk about a basic remote viewing protocol, which Basically, you came out of the laboratory work at the Stanford Research Institute in the early 1970s.
	Right.
	There was nothing really unusual about it.
	In fact, this is what I'm trying to do in my book, Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
	I'm trying to show that this phenomenon is a very natural kind of capability that we all have.
	That we all have.
	Yes, and there's nothing unusual about it.
	I use terms like extending intuition, and what we're doing is making intuition more specific.
	We're capturing those basic impulses that we pick up through our psychic senses.
	And I do like the word psychic, even though a number of people, some of my colleagues do not.
	We pick up these impressions through whatever this psychic mechanism is.
	And in the research community, this is referred to as PSI, PSI, PSI Phenomenon.
	I like that term because it's very neutral.
	Is it real?
	Is PSI Phenomenon real?
	Yes.
	After working with this area for over 25 years, I'll definitely say the phenomenon is real.
	And remote viewing?
	Remote viewing I see as a sub-category of psi-phenomenon.
	I have frequently referred to remote viewers as disciplined or trained psychics.
	Is that fair?
	I can go on with part of that.
	The idea of being disciplined is up to discussion.
	It depends what discipline you're talking about.
	Well, I'm talking about the protocols.
	Yeah, right.
	Yes, correct.
	There are protocols that one follows when one is doing remote viewing or any other form of psi investigation, whatever name you want to call it.
	You have to have some kind of procedure or protocol.
	You may fool yourself.
	You don't know what you're getting.
	So in that sense, it's discipline, yes.
	And as I was saying earlier, remote viewing, In my view, in my estimation, is part of a larger umbrella term like psi.
	It's kind of related to extrasensory perception, which is an older term.
	Now, any time you want to do research or practical applications using this phenomenon, you have to follow some kind of procedure or you may not know exactly what you're getting.
	So I agree, there is a need for protocol and making sure.
	that you're not being influenced unduly by second guessing or somebody's expectations.
	Your imagination, whatever.
	And imagination is always going to be a tough one to keep out.
	And that's why when people say they have mastered that, I have serious doubts.
	I have not seen any evidence of that in the laboratory work and even in the application
	work I've looked at over the past two decades.
	Who developed, who came up with the protocols?
	There are several degrees of protocol here, or several versions of it I would say.
	The initial protocol is fairly standard for how you do any parapsychological experiment.
	You know, there's the need to make sure the, if you're doing experiments, you have to have some kind of target pool, something you can draw from that's homogeneous, it can't be second-guessed, randomized, nobody knows about it, so it's a double-blind kind of situation.
	Right.
	So, then that's part of the procedure.
	Then the strategies that people use can vary.
	And this is, I think, what people are quibbling over right now.
	People that have been formally on the project have certain approaches, we call them strategies, but there's a protocol there, too.
	Now, the early protocol was fairly simple, the one used by the researchers at Stanford University.
	The strategies were left pretty much to the individual's discretion, but the scientific protocols were the same, and those are the ones that should be the same no matter who is doing this.
	But the strategies vary.
	And I think this is where we're running into some differences in viewpoint from the former remote viewer.
	Let me read you a fax that I just got.
	Right.
	It says, remote viewing or remote feuding?
	Hey Art, is it just me or do you detect a little bit of contention between the various remote viewing camps?
	I've been checking out the various websites and I'm seeing a lot of quote, I'm the only one who knows what he's talking about, end quote, attitude.
	Maybe we could have a contest between the various camps and you could decide who really knows what's up.
	The question is, why are so many people shooting like crazy, people who were in your program?
	That is a very astute observation.
	I'd like to send an email to that writer, that he's right on target.
	It's a puzzling thing.
	I've often wondered about this over the years.
	And I've noticed this with different people that have even been in the laboratory situation, not just simply people that were on the Remote Viewing Project in government.
	I think there's a lot of personal ego involved.
	I think it's like not invented here in us.
	We see that all over in ordinary research too, not just this area.
	You get a certain personal commitment to a procedure and it works for you.
	You know, and by damn, it's gotta work for everybody else.
	Is Ingo, Ingo Swann, the father of remote viewing?
	Well, this is a big question as to who termed, who came up with the term remote viewing.
	So you might be the father?
	No, I came in a couple years after.
	So you might be the godfather?
	Well, in a way, I help.
	Let me, I need to explain the history a little bit.
	Alright, Dale, that's exactly what we'll do.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Hold tight.
	We'll pick up on the history when we come back.
	Dale Graff, who did coin the term Stargate, That is my guess.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Premiere Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	This is a test.
	and the
	the the
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	Dale Graff is my guest.
	He was a guest on Nightline when they finally blew the whole thing public.
	That in fact, our government over a period of 20 years, I think it was, the CIA, Department of Defense, and many others had been dabbling with PSI, the ability to remotely view things and people and events, and possibly even view through time.
	They really never covered that part of it on an eyeline, but we'll talk about it in a moment.
	And we'll get the history of remote viewing.
	I know it's new to a lot of you.
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	At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up, and stand up, and do what they have to do, and shout, and scream, and blog, and I think that's critical, and I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
	I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us, and our country will remain strong.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, once again, here is the man who coined the term Stargate, Operation Stargate.
	The man who was on Nightline when all of this was, and we'll talk about that too.
	I'm really, really interested in how it came public.
	But right now, Dale Graff, who's almost going to have to yell at us because we don't have a great connection, Dale.
	You'll have to stay good and close to the phone.
	Give us a little bit of history of remote viewing.
	Okay, but before I do that, I would like to clarify the point we got off on just at break time.
	Right.
	The difference between protocol and strategies.
	Anytime you do any experiment, you need a fixed protocol to make sure that what you're getting is the valid phenomenon.
	And that's fairly well fixed.
	Just keep track of things, good record keeping, that type of thing.
	Strategies is the attitude that people take in how they generate The impressions.
	This is where the problem is coming in with some of the former colleagues I think.
	They have a certain approach and they feel that that's the only one and this is just an incorrect view.
	The attitudes that one has and how you uncover this sigh ability or remote viewing ability or whatever you want to call it are strictly personal.
	So this is why there's so much differences of opinion, and I think dissension, because then it becomes a matter of ownership too much.
	So having said that, unless you want to comment on that?
	Well, only in the sense that now that you've said that, I've got to understand the protocols.
	Now, you take somebody, anybody, because you say everybody equally, and I don't know if I believe that or not, Dale, that everybody equally Could be a remote viewer.
	Others have said that to me, but surely, there must be some that psychologically, mentally, with regard to PSI ability, are better than others naturally.
	Oh, absolutely.
	And I don't think anybody is saying anything different.
	What is being said, the way I hear it, and the way I see it, is that we all have some latent ability to achieve some level.
	of side talent.
	Fair enough.
	But it's like, say, a pianist.
	Some people do real world earlier on and go into the concert.
	Others only dabble away at chopsticks.
	So it's that kind of spread, I think.
	All right.
	To give people an idea, now, I've interviewed many times Major Ed Dames and many of the other remote viewers who were in that program.
	And, for example, gas canisters in Iraq, it is said, Were located by the remote viewers years ago and when they got to Iraq they found the gas canisters which were drawn in the place where they said they would be.
	Is that a true story?
	I don't know.
	It's information I just don't, I cannot relate to.
	If it happened, it was information when I was not directly connected with the project.
	Or it happened at some point later on, but I am not familiar with that incident.
	I'd like to pass on that.
	All right.
	If I were a remote viewer, and you were my control, Dale, what would be happening?
	Give me an example.
	I mean, you and I are in a room, and how would it work?
	All right.
	Well, first of all, we have to define how you begin the process.
	What is the objective?
	And I would assume that if you are wanting to do a remote viewing session, that there is some definition of the target.
	Of course.
	All right, let's pick one.
	So in the research environment, this is usually selected from a randomized target pool.
	And this could be from a dozen or hundreds of possibilities, depending on how it's set up and the purpose.
	The purpose of that randomization is to make sure that no second guessing occurs.
	And to give your own subconscious a free reign.
	Okay, give me an example of what a target might be.
	Okay, if you're doing a remote viewing session, and the objective is to describe a remote area, then a target could be any geographic site.
	If there's somebody visiting it, in the early days we called this a beacon person.
	Okay, let's say a radar site, a Russian radar site in Siberia.
	Alright.
	So, in this case, in a case like this, Now you've started an operational project, so now you already know the kind of area you want to go to.
	That's right.
	So in this case, there would have to be some way to relate to your subconscious mind what that location is in a targeting sense.
	Without actually telling me what it is.
	Right.
	Without saying, now today we're going to remove you from a radar site.
	Yeah.
	We're going to say, we're going to find some way to randomize or to arbitrarily label the target.
	We found using some arbitrary labels, early on it was thought just an earth coordinate.
	Eventually it was found that some randomized numbers would do the trick.
	Exactly.
	Now here's the part that I have never been able to comprehend, and maybe you can help me out here.
	You, as my control, you would pick that, would you pick that randomized number?
	Uh, it either could be.
	No, not the control.
	The randomization needs to come from somebody not connected directly with the session.
	Alright, so it's a totally unconnected random series of numbers.
	That's one procedure, yes.
	Do you know what those numbers are?
	As a control, as my control?
	Now, if you say control, if you're referring to somebody who's doing the interviewing, is that what you mean by control?
	I think so, yes.
	Okay.
	In that case, then I would read the numbers to you.
	It could be some other thing.
	It could be target X, Y, Z. Alright, would you know what the numbers represent?
	No, you should not.
	If you do, the experiment is contaminated.
	Not me, not me, but you.
	That's exactly what I meant.
	Alright, so you don't even know what the numbers are.
	No, no, no, that would contaminate the whole process.
	Okay, so you read me the numbers.
	Correct.
	I then, based only on those numbers, begin to visualize or try to visualize what the target is and I draw As much as I can of what I see.
	Is that about right?
	Well, that's generally correct.
	Some people prefer to draw.
	Others will maybe write some feelings or words that come to mind.
	It's not always a visual thing.
	All right, here's what I don't understand.
	Here's where I get stuck, Dale.
	Okay.
	At some point, there has to be a transference from the person who decided what the target, the radar base in Siberia, was going to be.
	And the guy sitting there actually doing the remote viewing.
	This is actually the biggest puzzle of all.
	In fact, any future research I would hope would help shed some insight on this problem.
	It's a real mystery.
	But for the purpose of practicality, it's been observed that all you need is some kind of identification, some kind of link.
	You could put your thumbprint on the piece of paper and it might work.
	I'm really exaggerating here.
	But you need something to identify a link between the objective and what apparently triggers your subconscious response.
	And I cannot explain it.
	It's really a mystery.
	There actually has to be some form, in my way of thinking, of telepathy occurring between the person who is deciding what the target is and the remote viewer.
	There has got to be some connection to that number Well, I have theories, and so do some of the researchers.
	of this happening i'd just i don't that's one part i'd just don't get and
	i guess you don't either well i have theories and so to some of the
	researchers uh... one of the theories which might even be the uh... the
	leading contender here
	is that the remote viewer is actually perceiving his future knowledge
	so that what you're doing is sketching something that you will then
	learn at some point It's like meeting yourself.
	Oh, my!
	I'm just saying that's one concept.
	And that is one that would explain it.
	That had never occurred to me.
	So that is almost time travel, isn't it?
	Well, in a way, because we still needed to find what time is.
	I'm somewhat comfortable with this concept.
	It seems to cover a lot of other problems which this field has.
	But the idea of time, let me come in on that a little bit.
	In terms of time, are we talking about probabilities of the future or something fixed or what is the future?
	When it comes to time travel, I'm not sure.
	It seems to me that we may be projecting a probable future.
	In anticipating these probable futures, we're not really ahead in time, we're just creating a scenario of a probable future in current time.
	We could be wrong, but at the time the session is done, or performed, it's the most likely one.
	Do you follow what I'm getting at here?
	I'm not sure I do.
	You say it's not time travel in the classic sense, and yet It really is.
	It's a perception of time.
	For example, I'm giving you my perspective and a number of people will not agree with me, but let's talk about past time because people have talked about that a lot too.
	Retro time, traveling back in time.
	Here it may be that anyone with this eye talent or remote viewing talent, whatever you want to call it, is accessing some holographic type record.
	And it's not going back in time.
	It's just finding a place somewhere that has this recorded information.
	It's like walking into the library.
	You're not going back in time.
	You're just finding an old book.
	This is the analogy I'm trying to make.
	Well, if we're talking about a future or an event distant geographically, but in our current timeline.
	Right.
	If I understood you correctly, you said the remote viewer is somehow able to read or through the PSI talent Actually report what he will know in the future.
	That's one idea.
	And to me, that's time travel.
	You can call it that.
	I'm not sure if I would call it that.
	I would call it accessing probabilities of the future in real time.
	Maybe we're just quibbling over semantics.
	We are.
	Okay, fine.
	That's all we're doing.
	But I don't see it as time travel.
	I just see it as you're sitting here now and somehow subconsciously your subconscious mind Well, yeah, but you could do that with a computer.
	Yeah, you probably could.
	Ah, but you probably couldn't remote view with a computer.
	So there's some difference between a computer, which is great at running through probabilities, and a human being, which seems to be required for remote viewing.
	Yeah, I'm sure there is.
	In fact, I would be the last one to say that they would be the same.
	But in terms of what is actually going on, I'm more comfortable with the idea of a subconscious way of accessing future probabilities.
	And it just happens to be where I am.
	Well, I don't blame you for not wanting to get too comfortable with the term time travel, but as you broke it down, it sure sounds like that.
	Okay, well, maybe it is.
	I just have a different way of looking at it.
	If you could, for example, leap ahead and understand Your knowledge of your own investments in the stock market two years or five years from now, you'd really be onto something, wouldn't you?
	Yeah, again, this gets into the probability thing, because when you're going into something like that, which has a huge amount of other interactions, almost an infinite amount of other decisions that are going on in that time frame, I would say, if you do come up with a perception Sure.
	what a particular stock might be five years from now, I would give it a low probability
	of occurrence.
	There are too many other things going along that would affect potentially that outcome.
	It is a possible future, but I would say it is not a probable one.
	So here I go back to my probability way of looking at things.
	In fact, I think this is exactly what happens in most of the so-called precognitive statements
	that you read about from time to time in a paper, or any time people try to perceive
	very far ahead in time.
	Things don't work very well.
	Once in a while, you'll come into something that's very mind-blowing, but, you know, who's got a chance, guess or not, you don't know.
	But what I'm saying, I don't see an awful lot of evidence for accurate stuff beyond some near-term field that we have.
	I'm just not comfortable with anything beyond, you know, a few weeks at a time.
	When you were in the Department of Defense with this program, then, DIA, What was the general attitude about you and your group?
	Did they think you guys were out of your minds?
	Well, there were people that did that, but early on we had some very encouraging people in the chain of command at various levels that thought we were not out of our mind, but that we were ahead of time, more or less.
	There you are again!
	Yeah, you got me going.
	But we were looked at as sort of an innovative, creative group.
	But that was because the mindset and the attitudes of the early managers in our chain of command were very innovative.
	They were very futuristic in a sense.
	Later on, when a number of people came on board at higher management levels, they really did not have any comfort level with this field at all.
	This is one of the reasons that the group had to take a low profile.
	In fact, one of our military commanders even asked us not to do anything for one whole year for a while.
	Really?
	It was at a high discomfort level.
	Once we got through that, then another commander came in that didn't feel much better about that.
	Later, the latter part of the program was dodging negative Viewpoints from higher management.
	Yeah, I assume eventually as you got commanders, it was probably regarded by the commanders who got the assignment as a career ender or at least a career stall.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And I'm pretty sure this is what drove, what was really behind the motivation of one of the main military commanders that has his biggest say in closing the program.
	I think it had to do with that more than anything else.
	And that the argument that the activity didn't yield any useful application results, I think, was just a cover for that overall mentality.
	Oh, that's a very important statement.
	You're saying they ended it, it was political, it was personal, it was prejudice, but it wasn't based in reality.
	You're telling me the program worked.
	There were times the program worked, that's what I'm telling you.
	And early on had the review that if the review that was done in 1995 actually gone back and interviewed the people that had good success and looked at some of the records from the 1980s and that early time frame, I don't see how they could have made a statement that there was no evidence for its feasibility or utility.
	There was stuff there that was really clearly quite good.
	Well, what about you?
	I mean, you sound like a very well-grounded, rational human being.
	Well, I try to.
	That's one of the reasons I wrote Tractions of Psychic Wilderness, and that's to make sure that other people that want to take a look at this make sure that they do keep a grounding.
	Did it take you long to accept the fact that this was actually happening?
	Oh, absolutely.
	In fact, when I first became involved, In early 1976, I really had strong doubts that there was anything at all valid going on in this thing called remote viewing or any form of psi.
	So you came to it as a skeptic?
	Yes, but I was not the kind of skeptic that you find that rants and raves at the mouth.
	I had an open-minded attitude.
	I was very interested in creativity and things like that in general.
	So I didn't say no, but I absolutely did not say yes.
	This is great stuff.
	So I had to actually sit down, look at the experiments.
	I studied the history.
	I had to take a hard look at everything that was going on.
	I even had to go through some of the protocols myself just to see what it felt like.
	What was the impact on you when it suddenly dawned on you that what you were doing was real?
	That must have had an effect on you.
	I think, yeah, it did.
	I've had other interesting experiences throughout my life.
	This was not that dramatic.
	I just didn't feel that upset about it.
	I could accept it.
	One of the biggest shocks I ever had, one of the biggest cultural shifts, was when I studied quantum physics.
	Ah, hold it.
	When I got through that, you know, my mind was blown.
	I couldn't believe some of those concepts that I'm talking about.
	I agree with you, Dale.
	I'm talking about college level physics.
	I understand.
	We're at the top of the hour, so relax.
	You've got a good long break here, and we'll get back to you.
	Dale Brampt is my guest.
	He coined the name A Stargate Project Stargate.
	Don't leave me this way.
	Cause we'll be right back.
	The trip back in time continues.
	With Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	Oh baby.
	Don't leave me this way.
	I can't exist.
	I'll surely miss your tender kiss.
	Don't leave me a tender place.
	Baby!
	My heart is full of love I desire for you.
	Now come on now.
	Take the long way home.
	Take the long way home.
	When you're up...
	When you're up one day, you don't want to leave at all.
	Oh, I don't care at all.
	I'll stay at home.
	Then you watch as you think you're losing sanity.
	Oh, for sanity.
	Oh, cause I'm looking with an open eye.
	Oh, yeah.
	Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Network.
	Once again, here I am.
	Dale Graff is my guest.
	Who is Dale Graff?
	He coined the term Stargate.
	Operation Stargate.
	And we're going to ask him about how all of this got public shortly.
	There was a program, a nightline show, devoted entirely to this subject.
	The ability to see at a great distance, or even through time, objects, people, things, impressions, it's a kind of a sensing, it's PSI, it's whatever you want to call it, but whatever it is, it does work.
	I don't know if you'd call him the father of remote viewing in Goswan, who you would really call the father of remote viewing.
	But here's the guy who coined the term and was on Nightline and I'm going to ask him about it.
	I'm really, really curious how something like this suddenly, boom, like that, gets made public and how Nightline grabs it and does a whole show on it.
	I'm really curious about that.
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	At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up, and stand up, and do what they have to do.
	And shout, and scream, and blog.
	And I think that's critical.
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	Not everything is cut and dry.
	And I think people will look at events and say, who profits?
	Who benefits?
	And then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
	I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns out the street.
	Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
	They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
	In order to do that, You need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that, in order to say, you know what, they're right, we don't need this, we don't need that.
	So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
	Bottom line is, people don't trust other people.
	And that's why they create all these things.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 4th, 1998.
	March 4th, 1998.
	Alright, Dale Braff was the leading researcher and expert in the defense
	department in the area of parapsychological phenomena.
	That's, uh, that's quite a line.
	He was DOA, he was DIA.
	DOD.
	DOA.
	DOA.
	Sorry about that, Dale.
	DOD and DIA.
	Department of Defense.
	Department of, uh, Intelligence.
	Defense Intelligence Agency, actually.
	And by the way, the man you're listening to, Dale Graff, is going to be on ABC's Good Morning America on Tuesday, March 10th.
	This is the 5th.
	He's going to be on Good Morning America, March 10th.
	So if you want to see Dale, that's going to be your opportunity.
	So the major media is obviously still very interested in Stargate, in remote viewing generally.
	Dale, you're back on the air now, and I want to ask you this, okay?
	How did the Nightline program coalesce?
	I mean, what a shock for America.
	It was one night.
	There's Ted Koppel.
	There you are.
	There's others.
	And America is being told its government, for 20 years, has been dabbling in psychic phenomena.
	Oh yeah, that was quite a shock.
	It was a shock for me, too.
	Well, how did that happen?
	How did you get it on the nightline?
	Well, after that report that the CIA had chartered to take a look at the area was completed, and that was done by an independent research group, the American Institute for Research.
	And when that was completed, it was actually completed at the unclassified level.
	There was no classification on that.
	And somehow a report, I shouldn't say somehow, after all, this is Washington D.C., somehow a report got passed around to the various media.
	Somehow.
	Somehow, yeah, and I'm not going to comment on that.
	Somehow it got passed around.
	And I guess the ABC program people saw this as a good item to jump on and they just beat everybody to it.
	There were a number of people that got on the trail, but they were a day too late.
	So there was a lot of hustle at the time, but the key was that report being made available inside the Beltway, and then it took off from there.
	Having been DIA and DOD, did you have to consult or call anybody up before you agreed to be on that program?
	By that time I had retired.
	I had been retired for two years when it broke.
	And I did not, because it looked to me like I was going to keep my comments to within only those things that I knew I could talk about.
	So I just decided to bite the bullet and do it.
	How much, even now, Dale, is there with regard to that program, that if you talked about, you'd end up, you know, behind bars?
	Oh, I think there's quite a few, a box full of data.
	That still have some high classified labels on it, and that I'm sure has to do with places and people and that type of thing.
	I would never talk about stuff like that, but I can certainly talk about those things that already have been kicked around and some of the open research that we did over the years starting from, you know, the early seventies.
	We made every effort possible to get a lot of that released as we went along and into the open research.
	When this report somehow Got out.
	Were you surprised or shocked, or did you expect it?
	I was shocked.
	Let me qualify this.
	When it comes to reports being leaked in the Washington area, I should not be shocked, because that happens.
	But in this case, since I had this personal connection, it really was shocking.
	I was kind of surprised to see that this got out so quick.
	I knew it was going on.
	I knew there was a report written.
	I wasn't exactly sure if it was classified or unclassified, but even if it I didn't think it would get out that quick.
	Alright, I'm going to ask you something that I ask every remote viewer I have interviewed.
	And I've interviewed, I would guess, about a half dozen now of some of the biggies.
	So here it comes, Dale.
	If remote viewing really worked, which you affirm that it really works... At times, yes.
	Even at times.
	It would be a tool that our Defense Department or somebody in one of the alphabet agencies would absolutely consider to be Indispensable.
	That's the word I would think of.
	Indispensable.
	And now, while they say it all has officially ended, I don't believe it.
	And isn't there every reason to be suspicious that at some level that we're not hearing about, just like we didn't hear about this program until Nightline, that something like this with a different name maybe is going on covertly?
	Oh, I suppose that's always possible, but after knowing and being through the mill like I've been through, I would say it's highly unlikely that something similar to Stargate is actually being done at an official level.
	Now, I think because of the Stargate activities and all the publicity that a lot of people within government has got new interest in this, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if at an independent, private level, People aren't looking into this, but I think it's unofficial.
	I'm pretty sure that there are a number of people that would be very interested.
	Like you said, it is a useful tool.
	You don't ever want to use this kind of stuff alone.
	When you get right down to it, Art, many people already do use their intuitive remote viewing abilities in ordinary work.
	Talk about PIs and the people that require this kind of basic talent.
	I think it's happening all the time.
	Anticipating trouble behind any certain door, for example.
	I've seen a lot of instances after the fact where the FBI photo interpreter came up with something that nobody could figure out how he came to that, only to be later verified, and he couldn't even know.
	He or she couldn't even know how he came up with it.
	So I think there was a little bit more than subtle intuition going on here.
	And this is why I think one of the accomplishments of Stargate As well as the worldwide research which goes back to 1882 when it first started in London, England and this related phenomenon.
	I think one of the contributions we made is to call attention to this innate capability that we all have and to inspire others to take a look to see what they can do themselves.
	This is why I like to build it up from intuition.
	That's a very comfortable word that people are used to and in my workshops I use it a lot and I even say phenomena like remote viewing or telepathy or whatever you want to call some of these forms of presenting it is a way of making intuition specific and it's just there in most of us.
	We're just allowing it to come forth.
	But there were certainly very strict protocols.
	I understand the Department of Defense protocols We're extremely strict.
	Was there danger, Adele, to any of the participants in this program?
	And if so, what kind of danger?
	No, absolutely not.
	And this is where some of the people that are being very open about this are really misleading the public.
	Now, the reason I'm saying that is because, as you well know, in any government organization since the late 70s, There are some very, very strict human use review requirements.
	You've got to really go through the hoops.
	We had to do that every year, show exactly what we were doing, what the people were subjected to, the types of projects.
	I'm talking about across the board, for anything that involved any question of human use that might be subject to this, any stress, anything of that nature.
	Dale, how were people recruited?
	How were they recruited?
	Early on, it was somewhat systematic in the sense that a certain army group that passed out some questionnaires and used some kind of test procedure narrowed down possibilities.
	These people were then put through tests.
	There was a relatively formal approach at that time.
	Again, I'm talking about the in-house The Stargate and his earlier counterparts.
	Did you adopt the parapsychological double-blind testing procedures?
	I presume people went through that?
	Yeah.
	Once they were identified, then the test that went through with the protocols, here I use that word, the procedures that were generally in use at that time at the Stanford Research Institute.
	So, put them through the test to make sure that there was nothing that we were misleading or anything of that nature.
	Those that did well then moved forward.
	There were other ways of finding people too.
	Some of them we identified from the records.
	Others that they had an interest or experiences that made us suspect they could do well in
	this or it was word of mouth.
	Then we just put them to the test.
	What an unusual, what a very unusual unit that must have been.
	Yes.
	In fact, one of the many issues I think about over the years, there were a lot of things we could have done different.
	But you know, this is really an experimental type situation.
	It's new, innovative, there were a lot of things we didn't know that we know now.
	And I certainly, and I know others that were directly involved in the program, if we ever just start up again, We do things quite differently in terms of selecting people, handling people, that kind of thing.
	But, you know, we didn't know everything at the time.
	Alright, you have said that you consider it highly unlikely that there is even a covert program underway in this country.
	In terms of an official program, that's where I am right now, yes.
	Right.
	Let me now ask you, do you consider it as unlikely that there is a continuing program in all, perhaps, Russia?
	Or Beijing or other capitals of the world?
	Well, I don't think there's any doubt that at least the research part and also whatever you might call the applications part is still going on in other countries.
	There's a tremendous amount of interest, I know, under the Chinese side.
	And what contact I've had over the years Suggest to me that there is still interest in the Soviet Union, or I should say Russia.
	Now, I'm sorry about that.
	No, it's a perfectly proper slip.
	Yeah, I know.
	That's what happens when you've been in the Cold War mentality too long.
	I'm sure, really, in my own mind, that I think today we live in a lot of ways in a far more dangerous world than we did then.
	I mean, now we have to worry about suitcase nukes, about a hundred of them or whatever it is.
	Biological warfare and all kinds of horrid little things that we didn't worry about.
	I mean, back in my high school days, it was simply duck and cover under the desk.
	Today, it's a pretty dangerous world out there, and so my question is, if they're doing it in Beijing, if they're doing it in Moscow, or Leningrad, or wherever, then shouldn't we still be doing it here?
	In view of the way you feel about the effectiveness of this, shouldn't we be doing it?
	I think we should be, but I may want to question what the application is.
	I would be more inclined toward applying this type of talent to things like predicting terrorist strikes or locating where, say, nuclear weapons might be clandestinely stored, that kind of thing.
	What about Saddam Hussein?
	Could you locate where the real Saddam Hussein is through remote viewing?
	It might be possible, but you know, there's a problem here.
	It's called time-space changing.
	He moves around so much, the time you get information, even if you were right on, it would be probably out of date.
	So there's the problem of how would you actually apply this stuff in a reasonable amount of time.
	So there are some real operational problems and constraints, as there are for any kind of data when you're talking about this type of application.
	uh... restriction with regard to the information gathering what i mean by that is uh... can you can you gather uh... information for example uh... you want to know what the next winning lottery number is one of the stock market is i have people tell me that that kind of information cannot be gathered uh... that only uh... sort of positive uh... information can be discerned uh... is there any truth to that or is this I would imagine any science could be applied in any way, good or bad.
	That's a good question.
	It's one I've certainly been wrestling with for 20, 30 years.
	Now, let me answer that in several ways.
	In terms of numbers, like in lottery, I think the probability of success in applying either remote viewing or any form of sigh is very low.
	In the research side, in laboratory work, we find that numbers and words are not usually picked up.
	Rarely.
	It does happen, but it's very rarely.
	I would not put too much money on it if somebody comes up with a lottery number.
	So I think there's some kind of practical or operational limit with the phenomenon when you're trying to apply it to this type of information.
	Now, in terms of the restrictions that go broader than that, I think there's still an inherent problem with the phenomenon, and it's really this.
	A remote viewer or somebody else with side talent, another kind of side talent, however you call it, might be describing the contents of a building, for example.
	You may have a nice sketch.
	Things are defined fairly well, but still be unable to identify or name what it is.
	This is where I think a lot of people get themselves into trouble.
	They think remote viewing, once you can describe the remote area fairly well, you can do anything.
	It's not a nepotism. There are practical limitations. I think it has to do with how the phenomenon works.
	Is that where the danger comes in that the person's imagination and ego take flight?
	You've got it. Absolutely. You want to fill in. We still have that flight syndrome in us.
	You have to know what's going on, particularly when you're working with this type of thing.
	You get a flash of impression.
	You want to know what it was you saw, so right away your imagination is right there lurking to leap in on you.
	Even if you draw a good sketch, keeping your imagination out of the way, at that point you're going to start trying to decide what it is.
	Unless your sketch is very good, you probably are not going to get it accurately.
	Can you, could you, for example, assign a remote viewer a target like Jesus?
	I would think that that is really calling for emotional overlay, imagination overlay.
	I would have my real doubts.
	Well, I know, but remember they're simply being handed a number.
	Oh, I see what you mean.
	I mean, if you're using the original protocols and they're simply getting a number, and could you assign somebody Jesus.
	Yes.
	You could just assign a, uh, in the blind, you could assign the name of any particular figure.
	All right, Dale.
	Or whatever, otherwise.
	Dale, hold tight.
	We're at the bottom there.
	I got a break right here or I'm in trouble.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere Inside.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	This is a commercial.
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	js Dale Graham is my guest right now.
	We are about to open the lines and I'll let you ask him questions.
	He coined the term Stargate.
	He was in the original Stargate program.
	March 4th, 1998. Good morning everybody. Dale Graham is my guest right now. We are about to open the lines and I'll
	D.O.D.
	let you ask him questions. He coined the term Stargate. He was in the original Stargate program. DOD, DIA. And he was
	on Nightline and is about to be on ABC's Good Morning America.
	You're not going to want to miss that.
	It'll be Tuesday, March 10th, and we'll try and ask more about that.
	that he's got a book and i know you're gonna be interested in that as well and
	we'll let him talk about that too in a moment
	you're listening to art bell somewhere in time Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	Back now to Dale Graff.
	And Dale, I would like to describe an experiment I did about a year ago here on the program.
	Alright.
	Um, which, I'm going to be honest with you, scared the hell out of me.
	We were, at that time, as a result of your appearance on Nightline, we were talking about remote viewing, and one night I thought, well, let's give it a shot.
	Now, what I did was technically not remote viewing.
	However, I picked an object in my home, and I asked people to try and visualize and draw that object.
	I didn't give him a control number or anything else.
	I just had an object.
	Right.
	I had, I'm going to guess, several hundred responses.
	But I note two things, Dale.
	One, my wife was here in the house with me, participating.
	We both felt incredibly observed, I guess is the right word.
	If you've ever had the feeling that people are watching you Uh, you know when you turn around and sure as hell somebody's there watching you.
	Right.
	We had that times a thousand.
	I mean, it was like a million eyes roaming around in the house.
	Now maybe that was our psyche.
	Fine.
	Uh, then the faxes began coming in and people supplied me with drawings of what they thought this item was.
	Right.
	Now here comes the scary part.
	The item was, uh, impossible to guess.
	It was a marble, uh, a slab of marble.
	with a photograph or an etching of me and there was a specific frame that this little piece of marble was sitting in that could not possibly have been guessed at in a million years and yet Dale, two people drew the object that was in my living room nowhere near my studio cams that I've got here I mean precisely, two people hit it on the nose And a whole bunch of people almost hit it.
	It was so bizarre that it gave me the heebie-jeebies until this very day.
	And I have just now, because I have these wonderful studio cams, I have brought the object into the studio and I'm holding it up so everybody can see what was drawn.
	I wish I still have the drawings.
	I don't.
	But my wife is in the other room and will confirm everything I just said.
	Is that possible?
	Is that remote viewing?
	What is that?
	That's a good question.
	Here we go to terminology again.
	If it is remote viewing, maybe it isn't.
	Now remember, some people define remote viewing to be only remote viewing when you follow certain protocols.
	We don't know what the individual doing this information gathering was doing.
	But I don't look at remote viewing like that.
	I look at it as a process which is kind of like clairvoyance or some other form of sight perception.
	So I think, in my viewpoint, it could have been remote viewing.
	There's another possibility.
	It could have been a mind-to-mind type of contact.
	In the older days, in the early turn of the century, this was called telepathy.
	And I think even now, when people do remote viewing, there's still not enough certainty as to whether or not they're accessing the site or place or the knowledge of people at the place.
	So I still think of these possibilities together.
	They may have been accessing your knowledge.
	So I think, yes, you had a valid phenomenon.
	I don't quite know what to label it.
	Yeah, I don't either.
	Alright, we're going to take some phone calls and see what people have to say.
	Alright, before you do, I just wanted to mention about the book.
	Oh, look, absolutely.
	Let's talk for a second about your book, and I should have done that for you, I'm sorry.
	It's called Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
	Yes, right.
	And it's just out from Element Books.
	Element Books.
	Where can people get it?
	Right now, it's in most of the bookstores that I've seen or heard about, but they're also on the website.
	The website that I have, there are ways of contacting and getting the books.
	So there are ways of getting the book right now.
	But Beadalt?
	Coming into the bookstores.
	Beadalt and all the big bookstores?
	Yeah, I'm sure it's creeping into those bookstores right now.
	Most of the big boys and nobles carry it pretty widely.
	Well, give it your best shot.
	Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
	What is in that book?
	Is it the history of remote?
	No, this is why I wanted to get back to this book.
	Stargate is just a piece of this book.
	Right.
	It's just simply my personal observations.
	I made no attempt to go into the depth and get all the players and all that.
	That was beyond what I wanted to do.
	I did not want to do that and I will not do something like that.
	It's just my perception, the activities I had, and some of my observations.
	Stargate is a portion of the book, maybe 20%.
	I have a portion in the back end, which might be another 20%, which goes into a description of how I think most people can experience what we call remote viewing, or side-dreaming, or synchronicities.
	I'll explain that in a moment.
	But the middle portion of the book is kind of the heart of the book, and it's a series of big nets, short stories, where I try to illustrate, where I do illustrate what remote viewing is, what psychic dreaming is, and what synchronicities are.
	I see these all as interrelated together.
	Okay.
	Is there any instructional aspect to it?
	In other words, could a person read your book and Try it themselves.
	Absolutely, that's what the last portion of the book is.
	Oh boy.
	Now I do not use, I'm not a very strict one when it comes to instructions.
	What I have there are observations and guidelines and recommendations of how people can go ahead and at least begin to open up this intuitive, made specific phenomenon.
	So I have steps, not a protocol, not a recipe.
	But I have steps on how people can begin to investigate this potential of theirs.
	Now, for those that want to go further, then I recommend how to do this from a tighter protocol point of view.
	But first, you have to catch good sight, as the saying goes in the research community.
	And unless you know something is going on, there's no point in setting up elaborate protocols.
	I can come later.
	I've got it.
	I have procedures and recommendations, yes.
	But I also have the key ingredients.
	And the key ingredients are these.
	It's motivation.
	You really want to sit down and decide to do it.
	It's intent.
	It's desire.
	It's suspending disbelief.
	Those are the kinds of things I emphasize in that part of the book.
	Alright.
	Go ahead.
	Alright.
	Well, it sounds like a valuable book for everybody.
	Is it hardcover or softcover?
	It's hardcover.
	Hardcover.
	Yes.
	Alright.
	Price?
	1995.
	Oh, very reasonable.
	Is there a way... Many times when I have people on, there's a phone number people can call to get the book if they cannot find it elsewhere.
	Do you have one of those?
	Yes, I do.
	I'll get it in a second.
	I just don't have it here by fingertips, but we can get that.
	All right.
	Good test.
	Can you now remote view that... Oh, I forgot.
	Numbers are not good.
	Right.
	For some people, once in a while they are, but I think numbers are generally unreliable.
	Once in a while you see numbers and names come through.
	But I wouldn't put much money on that.
	I agree.
	And by the way, most all of the remote viewers that I have had on when I have asked that question have responded that exact way.
	It's strange.
	The remote viewers all seem to agree on so much and yet all hate each other's guts.
	Yeah, this is a disturbing part of it.
	And this is one of the reasons why I have felt some pangs of sadness over the years, why this should come about.
	And I think there's some inherent resistance that they have To admit that other people also can do this is almost like an ownership here, which I think is unfortunate.
	This is exactly what I'm trying to get away from, this type of attitude and attraction to psychic wilderness, to make it clear that most anyone can do some level of this, that no one is going to be set apart, unique, special and all that.
	I think this is what's happening.
	Some of these people are seeing themselves as too special.
	And when that happens, you get yourself into this ownership problem.
	Well, there's a little bit of the God complex.
	I'm sure that if you were given targets and you began to be successful at sensing and drawing targets, you would begin to think of yourself in a very different way.
	Some people, unfortunately, do drift into that direction.
	You're absolutely correct.
	And this is another reason I decided to write this book, one of the biggest reasons.
	And that is this balance.
	You don't want to get into this if you have any kind of inclinations toward this type of personality because they'll probably push you off to the deep end.
	So you have to be very careful.
	You have to be grounded.
	You have to make sure that what you're doing, you keep your sense of humor.
	You don't get carried away with your own abilities.
	You don't get on the ego trip.
	I'm really against people.
	I really feel strongly anti-people that get into the business on an ego trip point of view.
	So, you know, I agree with you.
	There is a kind of complex and you really have to guard against.
	Well then, that could almost be called a danger.
	And I've had other remote viewers tell me that there were some remote viewers in the official program that got really carried away and had to be ejected from the program.
	Do you know if that's true?
	Well, I don't know if it was ejected.
	You know, in the environment we were in, Particularly with the military people, every couple of years you're up for reassignment anyway.
	So it was a convenient time to move people on.
	That type of thing was happening.
	You were in the military.
	I know, but most things are done for the convenience of the service.
	I know that sometimes that doesn't happen.
	I know of many instances not related to this program.
	But you're right, that type of thing could happen.
	People end up in Julie Greenland.
	Exactly right.
	For that reason.
	Oh, and your appearance on ABC's Good Morning America, what's coming Tuesday, March 10th?
	What are you going to do?
	Talk about the book.
	And I'll touch briefly, I'm sure it'll come up on Stargate, but since that's not the main focus of the book, I'll be going into the field in general, to overall discussion on the nature of the phenomenon, on synchronicities, on psychic dreaming, that type of thing.
	I'll have a whole spectrum of things I'll be talking about.
	I really believe, Art, that most people who are interested in seeing if they have this intuition made specific, as I'm beginning to call it, I suspect that most people can experience this in a dream state easier than any other state.
	This is where I'm recommending people begin looking.
	So, it's an easy thing to do, and most people can at least go to sleep and dream.
	All you have to do is remember it.
	Dale, I'm going to tell you a story that the audience is probably sick to death of, but it's my one honest-to-God, I-I-know-what-happened-to-me experience, and I would like your take on it.
	Wonderful.
	Lived in Santa Barbara, California.
	Worked at a radio station.
	I've been in radio all my life.
	Lived in a little garden apartment.
	Came home one day from work.
	Sat down.
	I'm a news junkie.
	Put on the evening news.
	And I sat there watching the evening news.
	It was the type of garden apartment in Santa Barbara where you had a sliding door, a big double sliding door that would open, and I could look out at the street where I would park my car, which is right in front of the apartment, so I could always keep an eye on my car.
	Right.
	But the curtains were closed, and I was watching the news.
	All of a sudden, I had... The only way I can describe it is ocean waves, tremendous, giant ocean waves washing over me, mentally, Saying, hey, someone's going to hit your car.
	Somebody, something terrible is about to occur to your car.
	Right.
	And it kept washing over me so strongly.
	And I finally, I said a word I can't repeat here.
	And I got up, opened the curtain, looked out at my car, said another word I can't repeat here, went back and sat down and started watching the news again.
	30 seconds goes by.
	All of this begins washing over me again and again and again.
	I got angry with myself.
	I walked back over.
	I looked out the window.
	There was my car, looking just fine.
	Here's a guy walking down the sidewalk, out toward my car.
	He gets in the car in front of mine, starts his engine, puts it in reverse, and slams into my car.
	I tell you, Dale, it scared me so badly that I sank to my knees.
	But I was mindful enough to get up and yell out, you know, open the sliding door and yell out, Hey, I saw that.
	I've got your license number.
	He said, I'm stopping.
	I'm stopping.
	And that's all there was to it.
	But there was no question about it, Dale.
	Something was really telling me what was about to happen.
	And then it happened.
	What was that?
	Wonderful.
	This is exactly the kind of thing I address in Traction's Psychic Wilderness, because I think this is really where most people Well, wait a minute.
	benefit from opening up to their side talents.
	I suspect that we all at all times are kind of scanning around to see what is coming our
	way in the future.
	In this case you probably pick up the intention of the man and you sense what he would then
	be doing when he got into his car and he would alert for you.
	These are not uncommon things.
	The research literature is full of these types of little premonitions.
	But wait a minute, how could that man know that he was about to go out and hit my car?
	I think subconsciously he was probably upset about something and there was something in his psyche that was reckless at the time.
	So I'm just giving a possible explanation.
	So I could have been picking up on his reckless feeling and I made the connection between his reckless feeling and his being parked in front of me.
	That's one possibility.
	There are others.
	You can just look at it as a straightforward I am inclined when I look at these situations, and I have
	had things like this happen to me.
	I have talked to many people in my workshops that have these exact kinds of things happen.
	I am a little surprised that you would react with fear, but a lot of people do.
	And it's a natural part of ourselves, and this is what I'm trying to do in Traction's Psychic Wilderness, to get the fear component out of us.
	But I don't know how that happened to me.
	It's never happened to me before.
	It has never happened to me since.
	And it was so overwhelming, and so unambiguous, that new things scare you.
	And seeing something come true like that, It was just, it was too much for me.
	Right, well, right, so you're not knowing exactly what your frame of mind was during the day or whatever.
	You might have been in a very, uh, space-styled feeling, a more poetic kind of mind.
	You know, you may have been just thinking, dreaming, that kind of thing.
	I was watching the news.
	Peter Jennings, as I recall.
	Oh, okay, I understand.
	I mean, there was simply nothing special about the moment.
	I wasn't, uh, In any sort of altered state I wasn't concentrating in any
	way.
	I couldn't stop it.
	It was overwhelming.
	Well, then it just, one of those things, all I can say is it just happened.
	But I think it shows the tip of the iceberg on how you could probably draw onto that type
	of intuitive sensing at any time.
	You just have to put it aside and not be afraid of it.
	This is what I'm trying to say in my book.
	This is why I opened it up to the dreaming mind.
	This is why I opened it up to synchronicities, which I view as a very dynamic form of intuition.
	We don't really know why we go here or there, but all of a sudden there's a thing we're looking for.
	We are subconsciously driven and we don't know why.
	What do you mean by synchronicities?
	Synchronicity is one of my favorite experiences.
	It's a coined term by Carl Jung almost a century ago.
	He noted when he was working with some of his clients, he was a psychiatrist working in Zurich, Switzerland, that many times things would happen in the session that couldn't possibly be explained by normal coincidences because they had specific meaning.
	So the timing of the incident and the significance of the incident led Jung to think That these were synchronistic.
	They somehow happened due to an unknown principle.
	He called it some acausal synchronistic principle.
	Even in quantum physics we have terms like that.
	Quantum synchronicity, for example.
	So he coined this and looked at this from a human point of view.
	People are sometimes drawn into situations which are way beyond chance that satisfy some need at that time.
	I see these as incidents.
	That our subconscious mind has prompted us into, it's almost like a self-fulfilling wish.
	So I have many examples, some examples in my book, and I think many people experience these routinely.
	Now, an interesting question, since we don't have time to go to the phones before the top of the hour break anyway, and that is, do you think that this ability, this inherent ability, is something that we are evolving That's a very good question and I'll answer this by kind of paraphrasing what Ed Mitchell said in the introduction to my book.
	What class do you think we've always had it?
	Is there more of it now?
	Are people becoming more psychic?
	That's a very good question.
	I'll answer this by kind of paraphrasing what Ed Mitchell said in the introduction to my
	book.
	He sees these abilities as a reflection of our first sense, not our sixth sense.
	And his perception is that these were fundamental, and came before all of the other senses developed.
	Something very old now being recovered, then.
	Yes, and I see this as kind of a survival situation.
	Do you know, Ed Mitchell, halfway to the moon, tried an experiment.
	I interviewed Dr. Mitchell, and he told me all about that.
	Listen, we're at the top of the arrow.
	When we come back, we're going to have to go to the phones.
	All right.
	All right.
	Stay right there.
	It's Dale Graff, the man who coined the term Stargate.
	It's all about remote viewing.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time, coming up.
	The Greatest Showman The Greatest Showman 2
	The Greatest Showman 3 The Greatest Showman 4
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	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	My guest is Dale Graff.
	It represents a very unusual opportunity for you to ask somebody who knows, somebody who actually coined the term Stargate, was D.O.D.
	D.I.A.
	I'm telling you that right up front.
	But tells us that remote viewing, remote sensing, whatever you want to call it, is absolutely real.
	If you have a question, come now.
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
	Not everything is cut and dry.
	And I think people will look at events and say, who profits?
	Who benefits?
	And then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
	I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns out the street.
	Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
	They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
	In order to do that, You need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what?
	They're right.
	We don't need this.
	We don't need that.
	So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see?
	This is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
	Bottom line is, people don't trust other people.
	and that's why they create all these things.
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
	Once again, the one-time director of Operation Stargate, the Stargate program, Dale Graff,
	Dale, here's a very general question for you.
	We have a deteriorating environment in America, in the world really.
	We have new diseases, flesh-eating diseases, all this horrid little stuff running around.
	We've got New organisms in the estuaries of North Carolina that are killing fish and making people sick.
	We have air that's foul.
	We have ultraviolet that's pouring in.
	Where I'm going with this is to ask you, as some remote viewers have done, they have looked at our future as a planet and made some rather dire forecasts.
	Is Is that aspect of remote viewing, in your opinion, possible?
	I believe, like I said earlier, that it is possible to tap into probable futures.
	And I think sometimes, when people do this, whenever you're working with anyone that's working with a projection, you really need to know quite a bit about that own individual's psychodynamics.
	What is the nature of the individual?
	What is the psychological state of the individual?
	Because unfortunately when you get into these way out future scenarios a lot of that personal stuff comes in.
	It's very hard to filter out a doom and gloom type personality that might perceive everything negatively from someone optimistic that might perceive it too good.
	So I'm saying you've got to find a balance and it's very difficult to find an individual They can perceive anything in remote viewing or science
	space without having a little bit of their own personal psychodynamics get into the picture.
	I would place any forecast or any projection that really looks totally negative in a very
	guarded perspective because my suspicion is you are seeing a lot of the person's own perception
	coming in.
	Grain of salt.
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't say a grain of salt but you have to be a little careful with it because you can find other people that have an optimistic outlook and you're not going to get anything like that.
	So I would suggest if anything one would pool results from people that have a track record In pre-cognitive stuff, that would be the best approach.
	Not to rely on any single individual, but to go to a variety of people and see what the consensus is.
	All right.
	Grain of thought, folks.
	First time caller on the line, you're on air with Dale Graff, top of the morning.
	Where are you, please?
	Concord, California.
	Concord, all right.
	Welcome to the program.
	By the way, your studio cam looks great.
	Best I've ever seen.
	I worked so hard on it.
	Thank you.
	You did?
	I did.
	Anyway, sir, it's a pleasure talking to you.
	I must admit, I'm not familiar with you at all.
	I'm just starting to get back into this.
	About 16 years ago, a gentleman back east in Michigan, by the way, he's my old scoutmaster who I love very much and I keep very much in contact with.
	It's nice to get a little plug for the Boy Scouts there.
	Me and him were sitting back in the campfire one night where he told me a story about a And I may be wrong about where this is at, but I believe it was Chinese monks that used to, I guess, I didn't know, I wasn't familiar with the term, but they would remotely view battles going on for the local king, I guess.
	And some of the things he was able to tell me is that they were so accurate, and they were doing this from hundreds of thousands of miles away.
	This is what's so amazing about this, that they were so accurate, they could tell them exactly where the troops were.
	How to attack them, what supplies they were capable of, what they have with them, etc., how many numbers, blah, blah, blah.
	But it wasn't just one person.
	From what I understood, it was a whole team of monks.
	Boy, does that sound like remote viewing or what?
	What's amazing about this, if I remember right, this is like 800 to 1,000 years ago.
	And I'm wondering, is this where the government maybe got their inspiration from?
	Because obviously, they don't have the quacks back then, so to speak, that we do now.
	Oh, don't be so sure about that.
	Hey, they were reading palms and stuff way back then.
	I'm not trying to be too critical, but today you have to separate the chaff from the grain, right?
	Yes, of course.
	I think your question, though, is superb, actually, and your story is, and that does really sound like remote viewing for strategic purposes, doesn't it?
	Dale?
	Yes, I think that you're fading a little bit on me.
	I almost didn't hear you.
	But yes, I would agree with that, and why should it not?
	You know, if we are now rediscovering this type of thing, that's about what it might be, that people with the right mental discipline, from the yoga, various yoga techniques and whatever, could very easily have stumbled upon this application centuries ago.
	Yes, that's what it sounds like to me.
	All right, I don't want to fade on you.
	Are you hearing me?
	Okay, I got you back now.
	All right.
	I'm signing loud and clear.
	I'm sure I understood the question.
	All right, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dale Graham.
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Omaha.
	Omaha, Nebraska, right?
	Right, Omaha, Nebraska.
	Okay.
	Not for ego purposes, but I want to give you just a little bit of my background.
	I did my graduate work in general relativity and completed quantum electrodynamics at two-dimensional with Feynman.
	He came up to UC Berkeley for a seminar.
	Now that is going to sound real strange when everything else evolves from that.
	Do you have a question, sir?
	First off, I have a couple of questions.
	Has anybody heard of the keys of Enoch?
	Yes.
	Someone showed it to me.
	What exactly is it?
	All right, well, you should go and read the book and then you will know would be my answer.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graf.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Joe from Jersey.
	I just had a question for Dale.
	If he's ever heard of or seen any evidence towards the fact of the power of suggestion being that you could suggest something to somebody and they would act on that suggestion without actually having to tell them by just thinking, Or transmitting a thought.
	Yeah, we were talking about that earlier called remote influencing.
	In other words, being able to influence somebody else.
	Right, because I had an experience when I was younger that has never happened again.
	Sort of like your little psychic car incident.
	And I still to this day cannot get it out of my head because it was so real and it was so many suggestions that I had made that it just happened.
	That it couldn't have been coincidence and I was wondering if he had actually gotten any evidence of that thought.
	Well, it's like you said, Art, earlier we had talked a little bit about this, and it is possible, I believe, providing that the suggestion is acceptable by the other people, that this could happen, that you could suggest an action and they would go and do it.
	I've seen examples of this, I believe, in dog training, where sometimes people just think about the command and the dog, the well-trained dog will respond.
	Oh, I've seen that too.
	That's a whole other area, and I have been a real advocate of I guess what I call telepathy with animals, but I think there is no question about it.
	I have three cats.
	I'm a cat person, and I absolutely can communicate with my cats.
	I mean, I can go to my cat.
	I've got a wild cat, a feral cat, and this feral cat, myself, over the last two years since I trapped it, have become very close.
	And I'm telling you right now, I can go up to that cat, and I can project irritation, and that cat will get up, and then it's gone.
	Or I can go up and project pure love, and the cat will lie down, start purring by itself, turn over, and give me its belly.
	Now, I can do that.
	Yeah.
	In fact, there was an experiment done at the Parapsychology Foundation, connected with J.B.
	Ryan's lab many years ago by Keith Harari.
	Where he was able to influence the movement of a cat and verify through statistical methods.
	This was in a laboratory setting.
	There's one other little thing.
	2020 did an incredible segment, absolutely incredible, an in-depth investigation, proving, and I mean proving, with blind tests, they would go to this person's home, And they would film the house pet, the dog in most cases, and they would have the person start home early, come home early at a totally random time, and the dog would begin acting in a very, I don't want to say irritated, but anticipatory manner, going to the door, jumping up and down, barking.
	That dog knew when their owner started home. They proved that.
	Oh yes. And this goes back to what you had mentioned earlier,
	and we talked about the first sense. We're certainly not going to be that
	held up on ourselves to think that animals don't have some type of
	sensing of this nature too.
	Well, but that begins to say something about the nature of animals that would
	create an awfully large debate, wouldn't it? Oh yes.
	Although, again, it depends on how you define this phenomenon.
	If you're talking about it in an extended sense, what he's really talking about more, I think, is the idea of interconnectedness.
	The fact that there really may be some kind of consciousness field.
	A mass consciousness?
	Yeah, something like that.
	Or, better phrased, collective consciousness?
	Yeah, that's on the right track, or some kind of field consciousness, or quantum consciousness.
	That consciousness is not all in the brain, and there's some type of overlapping feature in the universe that laps over into all creatures, you know, great and small, so to speak.
	Well, again, I think a very important implication.
	I do, too, and I say again that if you believe that, if you embrace that, and I do, then I think there's a great controversy with regard to our Interaction with and treatment of animals.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Now we see you as part of a larger whole, not just some disintegrated unit here and there.
	Absolutely.
	Exactly.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm from Southern California.
	My name's Steve.
	Hi, Steve.
	I have a question or a couple of questions for Dale.
	I'm very psychic and I come by it naturally.
	And not too many people know about it but occasionally when I'll get a premonition and I dig into it and I can get a lot of really good details and I've had several occasions where I was able to predict crimes and They happened exactly the way that I said they were.
	Predict crimes?
	Yes, that somebody's going to get hurt.
	Oh, I see.
	I don't want to get into any of the details.
	All right, well, that is precognition.
	So what is it you're asking?
	Well, I want to be able to reach my full potential.
	I was thinking about going into the law enforcement field with what I can do because Like, the last couple times that I've done it, I was able to get robbers.
	They were apprehended based on the information that I came up with.
	Well, here would be my advice to you, Dale.
	See if you concur.
	If you were to go to a law enforcement agency and say, I want to go to the police academy and my qualifications are that I can predict when a crime is going to occur, you had better be sure you secure your present job.
	Before you try that.
	What do you think, Dale?
	Yeah, because what's going to happen is you're going to end up being a suspect.
	Even if you are correct.
	That's right.
	That's happened.
	There was a case in Los Angeles some years ago where a woman was locked up because she perceived the details of a murder, which turned to be true.
	Really?
	The best approach, I think, is to keep a good track record and make sure you work with other people so you can verify the results.
	And prepare a track record.
	And when you get the stuff documented, Then you might want to contact some other group, but it might be best, initially, for you to have some kind of buffer between you and the police officers until you get comfortable and have confidence in one another.
	So my recommendation is, yeah, proceed, but be very, very cautious and also do other projects, not just the law enforcement type thing.
	Do some simple verification tasks, too.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Darrell Grafenhardt-Bell.
	Yes.
	Good evening, Art.
	You're going to have to speak up good and loud.
	Okay.
	Good evening, Art.
	Hi.
	And good evening, Mr. Graff.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	My name is Andrea, and I'm calling from New Jersey.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me now?
	Just fine.
	Okay.
	I don't have a question for Mr. Graff, but I would like to relate an experience that I had several years ago.
	This experience is in relationship to the theory which Mr. Graff mentioned before on the show about psychic ability Having to do with looking back from the future.
	That's right.
	In order to make a prediction in the present time.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Several years ago my husband and I were interested in buying a home and I went to a local psychic.
	She told me yes we were going to purchase a home and that it would be behind a garden center.
	Three years down the road we did purchase a home.
	It was not behind a garden center but the day of the closing at the lawyer's office we were traveling back to our apartment and we passed a garden center which she had described in great detail and at that moment I was thinking of her making a prediction about buying a home and I think there's some connection where in the past she had seen me I think I understand what was said.
	There's a little faint connection here.
	Well, a year or two later when she bought the home, there was no garden center.
	Does that sound right to you, Dale?
	I think I understand what was said.
	There is a little faint connection here.
	Alright, well, okay.
	She went to a psychic.
	The psychic said you are going to buy a home near a garden center.
	Well, a year or two later when she bought the home, there was no garden center.
	But while she was on the way to her apartment, I guess before the move, they passed the exact
	described garden center.
	Now she said, could it be that that psychic was looking at me in the same time frame that
	I was buying my home?
	And simply missed it a little bit, but perceived me seeing that garden center in the future.
	Yeah, just like we were saying earlier, the individual perceives the future coming toward him or her.
	I'm sure there's still some probabilities at work here, but things seemed relatively fixed and the prediction then generally came true.
	I can see some connection here, yeah.
	Yeah, me too.
	Alright, hold on Dale.
	Dale Graff is my guest.
	He's got another segment to go if you have a question.
	That's what we're here for.
	All I can say is, there's a lot more out there than we understand.
	That, you can believe.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	this somewhere in time.
	I'm going to be a part of it.
	Oh, yes.
	Walked in every moment in my good stuff's place. All this in an ocean, finally love's not a chase.
	Running out of time, you won't see the stage inside.
	Watched it hit slow motion as you turned around to say, ain't my friend got a way?
	Ain't my friend got a way?
	Well, I'll be out here waiting till the lights hit the stadium.
	Never hesitate to become a savior Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of
	Premier Networks I love this song and A Secret Place in Time
	You know you've got to wonder if eventually as remote viewing or sensing is developed
	whether there will be any more secret places in time A Secret Place in Time
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	At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
	I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do.
	And shout, and scream, and blog.
	And I think that's critical.
	And I think that's what's going to save the republic.
	I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us.
	And our country will remain strong.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
	Dale E. Graff has authored Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
	That's a great title.
	And if you would like it, it is available generally in bookstores around the country.
	And if they don't have it, usually in a bookstore they have the little computers and you just say the title or even the namedale graph and they can reference it, book it up, and get it to you post-haste.
	It sounds like a wonderful book.
	All right, Dale, welcome back.
	All right, I'm here.
	Here we go.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Dale Graff.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	I kind of had a question.
	I'm a little bit late for the subject, but my grandfather was in one of the LSD experimental groups.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Yeah.
	Well, luckily it was after my father was born.
	So I just kind of, the reason why I was calling is because I wondered if you all had, if either of you had any idea why They were experimenting with it and the way that they did, my grandfather described to me, there was a classroom setting with about 15 to 20 people and they locked him in the room and dosed him all and apparently his supervisor really, really, really wanted to be involved and his superiors didn't want him to be but since he was so persistent they went ahead and gave it to him.
	Needless to say, he completely freaked out, my grandpa said.
	He described to me what the other people were doing, but after he told me everything that happened, I wondered what was the point?
	I'll answer that and so will Dale.
	The name of the project was MKUltra.
	What were they trying to do?
	They were trying to learn how to, and if it was possible, to control people.
	Remember, our agencies, intelligence agencies, and military, are in the business of controlling people.
	It's why there was MKUltra, it's why there was Stargate, it's why there probably are lots of things, if not exactly like these, still going on, because they're in the business of control.
	Dale, is that true?
	No, I disagree with you.
	Stargate never had anything to do with controlling people.
	Never.
	One no, but MKUltra.
	Yeah, right.
	It just don't mix Stargate with something like that.
	There's no correlation.
	MKUltra I know a little bit about.
	I'm not sure if that was the ultimate purpose, but it might be.
	And that was way back in the 60s?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	That certainly would have been... I remember back then, too, there was so much uncertainty about what the effects of these drugs were before they were clamped down on you.
	Remember Tim Leary and all that?
	Oh, yes.
	There was a lot of naivety going on, so a lot of that might have been just exploratory, not knowing what the purpose was.
	Let me run this by you.
	We have touched briefly this morning on remote influencing.
	See, I don't call that... Stargate never did that.
	No, I understand.
	I'm with you all the way.
	This is a sort of a speculative question.
	If remote influencing was possible, you and I both know damn well they would be doing it, or trying to do it.
	And when I say they, I mean the D.I.A., the C.I.A., the alphabet agencies.
	Somebody, if this was possible, they would be trying to do it.
	I would have my doubts.
	There's so much going on right now with human use and all that.
	Again, even without my opinion, I think the remote influencing potential of adversely affecting someone, whether friend or foe, is just... Ah, but that was not the spirit of the question.
	The spirit of the question was, make the assumption That remote influencing, even on the negative side, is possible.
	If that were so, our intelligence agencies surely would pursue it.
	I don't think so.
	Really?
	No, I think it would be such a huge step from a few statistical deviations of what's been found in the laboratory to does this thing really lead to something practical, which I really doubt.
	But my question, assume that it was practical.
	And then asks about the, I suppose, the ethics of intelligence agencies.
	Yeah, I can't speak to that.
	I just don't think anyone would really sit down and purposely do that type of thing using mental techniques.
	Just an opinion I have.
	Okay, and that's today's intelligence agencies versus... Yeah, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, that was another issue.
	All right, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Okay, I wanted to make a comment that the one type of remote influencing would be like prayer, and to technical it would be like radionics, and then also another form of remote influencing, which seems like exotic type, would be like dreamscaping.
	Entering into someone's dreams.
	Yeah, right, but in a dream thing, That's usually an agreed upon situation, so it's like a consent.
	Another way of looking at it is this.
	There's an intent for a dream image.
	Somebody has an image in mind that wants the other person to dream about.
	I have examples of this attraction in the wilderness, by the way.
	So it's an agreed upon thing, so the dreamer may have perceived through his own His own natural ESP abilities, what the intended objective
	is, is simply incorporated into the dream of his own.
	So there is the question of where is it coming from?
	Is it being added in by the dreamer through his own psi ability or is it being inserted
	by another person?
	Because once the permission has been granted there is a conscious...
	Once the permission is granted then it becomes a mutual type of thing.
	I've seen many, many examples of co-dreams.
	In fact there has been some research done on that where people have identical dreams
	and these can be sought.
	It can be very beneficial.
	So yeah, I don't call that remote influencing.
	In a sense it is, but it's an agreed upon type of situation.
	It's like just going to a party together in a way.
	I can see that.
	That's a possible thing.
	Alright.
	In order to have it negative, that takes us into another area.
	It does.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graff.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing fine.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	I'm Mike from Atlanta.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got about two questions for him, about three questions.
	The first one is, does he see past the gloom and doom of the 2004 as the other ones do?
	All right.
	No, I'm willing to ask that.
	Without mentioning names, Dale, there are remote viewers, more than one, I might add, that perceive there to be some sort of block, some sort of discontinuity, they call it.
	I don't know what to make of that.
	I think we need to know, like I said earlier, what the perception of the people doing the projects are.
	It may be that one of them has a very strong opinion that there's going to be some catastrophe and that all the others are picking up the same thought.
	For anything that has to do with gloom and doom or any kind of forecast, even if it's peaches and cream, you need to look at a variety of sources, not just a few people here and there, remote viewers or whatever.
	Alright.
	My next question is, can you hurt somebody or kill somebody through a thought?
	Well, this one we've covered a half dozen times already.
	Remote influencing may be possible, but Dale does not believe that that kind of negative action is possible.
	I had one experience that happened.
	I had a step-grandmother I didn't agree with, and we had really had it out for like four weeks.
	She was a healthy woman, too, and she was pretty wealthy, so she was in good shape.
	I had really bad thoughts for a long time that something would happen to her.
	Well, anyway, within about a month later she died of a brain aneurysm and I felt like it was my fault.
	Well, there's another way of looking at it.
	You just wanted to pick up in a kind of precognitive style mode what was actually on its way.
	Because usually when you have those kinds of medical situations there's a predisposition in that direction.
	Either that or you killed her.
	I don't think that puts a guilt trip on people.
	I don't think that's possible, really.
	In some cultures, you may buy into the system, and it can happen, but that is a cultural acceptance thing.
	For example, voodoo.
	Voodoo simply requires that the person that you are trying to affect believes that you can do that, and once they do, you've got them.
	I think there's a lot to be said by that name.
	I'm sure not in everyone in that culture, but perhaps to those that are particularly prone to that negative kind of image.
	Yeah, that might happen there, but I think it's a cultural overlay that really drives even the remote possibility of that kind of thing happening.
	But, Caller, to make you feel better, this is probably the world's expert on all of this, and you didn't kill her.
	Okay, and this last question is, you talked about it too, about animals having the remote viewing thing.
	They did a thing on Animal Planet, a station called Animal Planet, and they showed a scientific study, and this dog, this woman came at three different times, and this dog was at the front door every time, waiting on her.
	Yep, we covered that earlier.
	I know, we could do, and will do, programs on that.
	Believe me, we will.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graff.
	Hi.
	Hi, good morning Art and Dale.
	This is Brett from Santa Cruz, California.
	Yes, sir.
	I have a lot of things I would like to ask about synchronicity, a lot of other questions.
	I will narrow it down to one question for time's sake.
	Dale, my question is, to what extent would you say remote viewing owes its origin to the teachings of Dr. Young?
	You're talking about synchronicity?
	You said remote viewing?
	Right.
	I don't think there's any connection with the remote viewing and Jung.
	The indirect connection, because Jung became very interested in PsyFX.
	He became very interested in the ESP research at Duke University in the early 30s.
	So he had a suspicion that there was a connection.
	I see.
	Remote viewing itself, there's no direct connection with C.G.
	Young.
	Not that term, and not with Young.
	If you want to take this into a more basic Psy link up, yeah, there is a connection, but I'm going back in history here.
	Remote viewing came much later, the term.
	I see.
	It's a generic connection, but you didn't start that one off.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
	On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Dale Gravenord-Bell.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	Ontario, Canada.
	Ontario.
	All right.
	I wanted to talk about... I never heard about remote viewing until your show, but I've experienced it.
	One thing I was going to say before, I've recently gone online and I've noticed that my PSI ability has heightened and I wonder if it's a protective device but what I wanted to ask Dale about was having images come to me when I relax and I'm not trying for it and I don't know these people and they're so clear like looking at a picture but it's in your mind and
	I wonder, is there some way you can block it?
	All right.
	Oh, there's a good question.
	Yeah, sure.
	That's a very good question.
	In fact, when I do my workshops, which is described in my webpage, and it's sort of an integrated general approach looking at a variety of side topics, not only remote viewing, looking more where people naturally resonate.
	But that's one of the things we discuss, the pace.
	And if people spontaneously have these experiences and are troubled by them, Then I would suggest that you go through visualizations or intention exercises to not have them.
	Also, having exercise and balance and being grounded, as some people would say, is also helpful.
	But simply intending these things not to occur many times will take care of these situations.
	If they prevail, then you might have to deal with someone that's familiar with working in this area.
	It prompts a question.
	She said, you know, I've been noticing more since I've been on the Internet.
	Is the Internet kind of like a real-world collective consciousness, and might it affect the larger collective consciousness eventually?
	Well, I'm certainly the last one to say no to that.
	It's a very good point, Art.
	There's another way of looking at it, too.
	Being on the Internet, being in front of the computer screen, you're giving your visual apparatus a huge dose of mental imagery.
	His range is all the way from the mundane afterimage all the way to stirring up memories, either from the Internet or elsewhere.
	So you're exercising your visual image apparatus, and that might be the thing that's really stirring you up.
	Michael Crichton, the author, wrote something that has always fascinated me.
	He said that it may well be that the Internet is not a good thing, because eventually it will stifle entrepreneurism, it will stifle original thought, and eventually we'll get to the point where, whether you're in Tokyo or Bangkok or Cape Town or New York, there are going to be the top ten ideas.
	In other words, it will actually stifle us.
	Yeah, I can understand that.
	Maybe that can happen if we let the Internet or other activities become totally dominant in our life.
	Even television, for example.
	You need breaks from this stuff.
	You need to go back to your own basic perceptions, your own basic mentality.
	If you do nothing but sit in front of the Internet, and many people do that, I can see where Kristin's concern is.
	Um, we have had a wonderful four hours.
	It's been four hours.
	Are you kidding?
	Four hours?
	No, it's been four hours we've been at this, right?
	Now, I'm just waking up, Art.
	I want to warn you, when you go on ABC's Good Morning America this coming Tuesday, March 10th, You will not have four hours.
	I know that.
	I'm worried about that.
	Exactly.
	You've got to do it in sound bites, or it doesn't get done.
	I gotcha.
	Okay.
	East of the Rockies, without much time, you're on the air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Yeah, I wanted to comment about M-Cray Ultra.
	Very quickly.
	First, I'd like to say I've probably eaten acid about 200 times in the last couple, three years.
	I thought MKUltra was about trying to have war without bloodshed, but I'm just wondering if you ever tried LSD?
	I've had it where I've had amazing movies in my mind, and just amazing things.
	I think it's amazing.
	Well, of course it is.
	It is amazing.
	It's a very dark area indeed, and I really have no comment on it.
	How about you, Dale?
	Okay, what was the thing that caused that?
	I missed that point.
	Well, I think he said he dropped acid 200 times or something.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, that could certainly weaken the neural connections and loosen up the picture-making apparatus.
	Or, to be fair, it could make neural connections that otherwise weren't made.
	That's another way of doing it.
	Remove the inhibitors.
	Yeah, who knows?
	It's a pretty dark area, Dale.
	It sure is.
	It really has been a pleasure.
	Listen, everybody, the book is Attracts in the psychic wilderness.
	Go to your bookstore ask for it.
	The author is Dale Graff and what a pleasure.
	And the book can also be ordered through the web page and through Deanna's Book House on the web page, too.
	That's right, and we will keep the link up on the website.
	By all means, he's got a... Boy, what a website you've got!
	Great.
	I have to thank Deanna for that.
	A great web mistress.
	Sure is.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Hey, I enjoyed it, Art.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Alright, that's it, folks.
	We are out of time.
	Now, tomorrow night and the next night, we've got wing dingers for you.
	You don't want to miss them.
	I'm Art Bell from the high, thankfully dry desert.

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