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March 4, 1998 - Art Bell

02:54:21

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Project Stargate - Dale Graff

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unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or a good morning as the case may be, wherever you are, and that is many, many places, actually, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out west to Caribbean eastward, U.S. Virgin Islands, morning in St. Thomas, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
		Well, well, well.
		Let me tell you what's coming up.
		Tonight, in about an hour, the man who coined, actually coined the name Operation Stargate, the government's official remote viewing program, Dale Graf, is going to be my guest.
		And he'll come and talk to us about remote viewing.
		He is, in fact, a remote viewer and was an administrator for remote viewers.
		And so we'll get yet another angle on remote viewing.
		It's absolutely a fascinating thing.
		It always has been to me.
		Tomorrow night, we are going to have a very, very interesting guest.
unidentified		And his name is Bruce Rux.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, he just wrote a book called Hollywood versus the Aliens.
		Now, the motion picture industry's participation in UFO disinformation.
		And the motion picture industry certainly has done an awful lot on UFOs and aliens and all the rest of it animate.
		And then Friday night, Saturday morning, Dr. Robert White.
		Dr. White is the man, the surgeon, who removed monkeys' heads and put them on other bodies.
		Now, when I talked to him earlier today, Dr. White had another name for it.
		I think he called it a body transplant, but I think the net effect was that one monkey had went, you know, from one monkey to another.
		He is also a medical ethicist and a very, very interesting fellow.
		So that'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
		I've been trying to get him on, as you probably know, for some time now.
		I'm looking forward to that program.
		Now, listen to me.
		Last night, during, in fact, during the program, while the program was actually going on, and all day today, I continued to work on my studio cams until I got them right.
		And I finally have them right.
		Remember, I have told you previously that I am a little berserk about this kind of thing.
		And until I get something working just the way I want it to work, I will either, one of two things will happen.
		I will either break what I am working on or fix it.
		Now, my odds have been getting better in recent years of fixing versus breaking, but I generally take it to that extreme.
		So I have my webcams working, and I really want your comments on them.
		Last night, of course, they were working in and out, and I didn't have them all set right, and I didn't have white balances set up the way I wanted.
unidentified		Tonight, I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you, folks, I've got it.
		So I want your comments on my studio cam.
		Now, how can you make them?
		You can go up there.
		This is something that, if you have a computer, allows you to see the program in progress.
		About every minute or so, 45 seconds, whatever it is, a new shot is taken from one of three cameras in here and then streamed up to the net where it is disseminated worldwide.
		Along, I might add, with my show.
		You can get audio of my show.
		As a matter of fact, people with good computers can sit there and watch me and listen to the show on their computer at the same time.
		I'm not sure I approve of all this, mind you, or I think it's a good thing, but it sure is fun, and it sure is cutting-edge technology.
		So anyway, I labored long and hard to get these studio cams the way they are now, and I hope they look okay to you anyway.
		I certainly am soliciting comments.
		So if you can, go to my website, www.artbell.com.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
		And scroll down to the bottom.
		You'll see Studio Webcam.
		Click on that and watch it for a little while and watch the cameras sequence through and let me know how you think they do.
		I think at the moment we have one of the best webcams on the web anywhere, period.
		He says modestly.
		Man, I really worked hard on it.
		As I said, I worked right through the program last night.
		That was an interesting program, wasn't it?
		It just shows to go you how I seemingly love remaining out on a limb, slowly sawing myself into oblivion.
		But it was fun.
		Now, obviously, I didn't buy into a lot of what C.L. Turnich had to say.
		But you've got to admit, she had zest.
		And there was something about her zest and her love of what she was saying and doing that just drove me to keep her on.
		And we had a lot of fun.
		As the program went on, it got more and more interesting.
		is a ball of fire.
		Oh, incidentally, we're also working...
		And that is for the hearing impaired, a scrolling text of what's being said on the show.
		Now, I would like to talk to somebody at CNN because CNN, both the main CNN and CNN headline news, are using some kind of scrolling text, a closed caption, and I don't think it's somebody typing in, I'm not sure, but the kind of errors that you see imply to me that it is not being typed in.
		And I've got some voice recognition software that might work.
		And anybody else out there with ideas, by all means, get them to me or get them to my webmaster.
		You can send a Keith email up on the website.
		I am really intrigued with the idea of having a streaming, even if it doesn't get it exactly right.
		I can see there could be some terrible errors.
		Instead of clouds on the moon, it could read cows on the moon.
		Nevertheless, getting streaming text up there on the website, it seems to me to be a really good idea.
		And I think it would be neat anyway.
		So let us pursue that idea.
		If anybody out there, I know CNN must have some sort of technology.
		And I will try mine.
		And if you have something up your sleeve, then let us know.
		We like being innovators, and that certainly would be an innovation.
unidentified		Square
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		At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and vlog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
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		Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
		I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
		Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
		They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
		In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
		We don't need this.
		We don't need that.
		So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
		Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the news.
		What is the news?
		Puerto Rico is about to have another opportunity to become a state.
		The 51st state.
		Now, if I recall correctly, it was not that long ago that they voted down that golden opportunity.
		And now I think that I may be heard in Puerto Rico.
		If not, I know it's coming up soon.
		And I wonder how Puerto Ricans feel about this.
		I guess I could ask all of you, how do you feel about it?
		If you were now not a state and you had an opportunity to vote to be a state or not to be a state, how would you vote?
		That is a really interesting question.
		I mean, there are states that look to possibly secede.
		Hawaii?
		Alaska?
		Texas.
		Oh, I've got a lot of news on Texas, and none of it's any good at all.
		Supreme Court says sexual harassment at work can be between members of the same sex.
		And this story comes from a fellow who was out on an oil rig with three other guys and was threatened with rape and all kinds of other things.
		And I think the court has ruled properly, of course.
		Sexual harassment is sexual harassment is sexual harassment, right?
		Now, listen to me very carefully When I tell you that there is something very very bad going on in Texas and not just Texas but all across the country right now I have received literally hundreds of faxes in email from people about this flesh-eating bacteria
		our KTRH just here in Houston reported at 3.03 a.m. yesterday morning that five more deaths have been attributed to the flesh-eating bacteria, five deaths today.
		Why doesn't this get more coverage?
		And tonight I am asking precisely the same question.
		I think it was two or three days ago that I did about an hour toward the end of the program very tentatively because I was getting so many faxes, so many emails saying, Art, this flesh-eating bacteria is here, meaning Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma, Connecticut.
		And you may recall that it scared the, you know, what out of everybody not too long ago.
		And then the medics, the doctors, the scientists came on and said, oh no, it's been with us forever, which I'm sure is true of strep.
		Not this particular variety.
		And that is, for some reason, it is converting into this thing that literally eats you alive.
		Here's another one.
		89 cases of strep in Texas.
		A run for your lives.
		That's what the person who sent me the story wrote at the top.
		Actually, it's a Reuters story.
		A bacteria that in some forms eats flesh has now killed 18 people in Texas in the past three months, according to the Texas Department of Health.
		It said 89 cases of Group A streptococcus had been reported in that state since December 1st.
		Here's another one.
		RI have the latest figures on the Strep A outbreak in Texas.
		Count is now 89, 18 dead.
		The latest, a five-year-old boy in Houston.
		Now Houston is trying to reassure parents.
		They really don't have that much to worry about.
		I've not heard the latest news of the Leander near Austin child that has been diagnosed now with the SPREP A. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.
		I won't even bother to read all of them to you.
		I've got so many.
		And my question, I guess, there's two.
		One, why are we not receiving this as a major national news story from the major networks?
		Two, if the CDC is involved, which it would appear they are according to the calls I've been getting and email, that should make it a national story.
		Why would a bacteria that lives in many of us, a pretty good percentage of us, suddenly turn against us in such a horrendous manner?
		And having turned against us, why are we not hearing about it in the media?
		Now again, the scientists who came on the air after the last big outbreak, oh, it's no big deal.
		It is very rare.
		We are not having more cases.
		Remember that?
		They said, we're not having more cases than usual.
		It's just the media is reporting them.
		I don't believe that for a second.
		I wonder if you do.
		If you had been in receipt of the number of facts as I had, you would be screeching the way I am right now about it.
		Here's another gem.
		Federal germ detectives say they have come up against now a rare super strain of tuberculosis that spread with alarming ease through two rural counties in Tennessee and Kentucky from 1994 to 6.
		It struck 21 people.
		In the eight previous years, each of the two counties had recorded fewer than one case of TB in the total population of about 14,000.
		So I would say that the little things are beginning to turn against us.
	Why do you suppose that is occurring?
	Many of them are not new.
	It's like pisteria in North Carolina in the estuaries, spread now into the ocean.
	It's not new.
	Phisteria was an organism, half animal, half plant, that sort of was always there at the bottom of the estuaries.
	And only when a certain level and certain type of pollution reached them did they activate and begin killing fish, bloody soars, all that sort of thing, attacking people.
	And now, this story that is being very, very under-reported, and I'm being kind here, this flesh-eating bacteria outbreak of this, what do you suppose is turning, why are the things that have always been here?
	And STREP A, you know, it's with us.
	But now it's turning on us.
	What have we done to bring STREPA alive?
	I use that term, of course, tentatively.
	But what have we done to bring this thing alive?
	And by the way, for the conspiratorial-minded out there, this late word from Dan in Lexington, Kentucky, Art, did you realize that today, March 5th, is a rather special day?
	There are now 666 days left before the year 2000.
	Well, it's March 5th in some time zones out there.
	And somebody else out there might try and confirm what Dan says is true.
	That number, it just keeps popping up, doesn't it?
	All right, we're going to go to Open Lines in the first hour.
	And again, look here, go check out my studio cams.
	I worked hard on these suckers, and I think I've got them about right.
	See what you think.
	And it got done at about 4 o'clock this afternoon.
	That's how long it took.
	And I just kept batting my head against the wall until finally, which occasionally does occur, the wall actually moved.
	And I think I've got it, but you can tell me that.
	Take a look at the website and see what you think.
	It's www.artbell.com.
	And if anybody out there has any thoughts on why these little things that previously were not active like this flesh-eating bacteria now are, I'd like to hear from you.
	We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Thank you.
		When you first paid my way, I said no one could take your way.
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to be here this morning, and I really mean that.
		Yesterday I was haunted because you know when things don't work the way you want them to, I just can't stand it.
		It drives me absolutely up a tree.
		Somebody writes from New Jersey, Art, there are 52 space.
		Puerto Rico would be 53.
		Yes, Mike, but that assumes that Alaska and Hawaii or Texas don't leave us in the meantime, but you're right.
		Again, I ask, if you had the opportunity to vote now on statehood, I wonder how you would vote.
		Whether to do a whole national survey about that or something.
		All right, open lines.
		Now, east of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Forward now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		I can't believe I caught in.
unidentified		I've been trying for some time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here you are.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually?
unidentified		I'm in Toronto, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way in Toronto, all right.
unidentified		I wanted to say, I think it's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No breaths.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course you can take a breath.
		You know, just relax.
		That's the thing do you want to get on there.
		Relax.
		Don't worry about it.
		It's just two people talking.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I wanted to say how much I enjoyed the program about the Titanic the other night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was astounding, wasn't it?
unidentified		Yes.
		And I had an experience.
		I went to see the tall ships.
		They're old ships, old sailing ships.
		Right.
		And there was quite a few in the harbor.
		And I thought, I'll choose one because I couldn't tour them all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And I thought, I'll go on the Inca.
		And I went on the Inca and I can't see.
		I'm gone.
		So it was quite an experience to go and see all the ship and everything.
		And then I met the crew and they sailed away.
		And the next thing I know, the Inca sank in the harbor, in Kingston Harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
		Holy mackerel.
		Well, it's a good thing, I guess, you didn't solicit a ride, huh?
unidentified		That is the weirdest feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like missing your plane and having it crash.
unidentified		Yes.
		And I wanted to say about this flesh eating disease.
		We had a little boy die here in the hospital emergency room just lately.
		They've cut the hospital services here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're in Canada?
		Yes.
		Flesh eating.
unidentified		And he had the flesh eating disease.
unidentified		He waited five hours to see a doctor, and by the time he saw a doctor, he died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much for that.
		And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of call and email, hundreds of them, I'm telling you.
		And facts is that I'm getting.
		This is a big story, and somebody out there is intentionally ignoring it, not me.
		Something has happened.
		And no doubt, if they do begin running the story in the next few days, they're going to bring in some scientists who are going to say, well, we've always had this round, and these numbers really are not out of line with what we've seen in previous years.
		Yes, they are.
		Way out of line.
		So this is a big Story and I'm going to follow it very closely.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, top of the morning.
		Hello, hello, hello.
		Turn your radio off.
		That's number one.
unidentified		Okay, I'll turn it off right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		My name is Terry, and I'm in Santa Fe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm a little nervous too, so let me catch my breath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, take a good deep breath.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		The reason I'm calling is you mentioned that it was 666 days till 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what the factor said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said as of March 5th.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Well, I ordered a Steve Gibbs time machine, which came today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got the time machine?
		Oh, you know what?
		I'm going to have Steve Gibbs back on.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah.
		He wants to come back on, and I've got his number, and we're going to have him back on, I don't know, maybe in the next few days.
		Anyway, you've got your machine, huh?
unidentified		I just got it.
		I'm reading the instructions, and I'm getting ready to maybe try it out.
		Not so much to travel through time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People out there, my friend, are not going to know what you're talking about because we had them on so long ago.
		Stephen Gibbs is an entrepreneur, scientist, crazy dude who has actually built, actually built, he claims, a time machine.
		Now, he also has a time machine catalog.
		Did you get that first?
unidentified		Yeah, I did.
		I bought his books, and actually, I had a friend try to build one of his machines, but it didn't work.
		So I think he made a mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that may well be.
		I mean, Stephen's got it down.
		So we did, I don't know, a couple hours with Stephen at least, and he's fascinating.
		I mean, he's an average guy, but he really claims, and he gives examples of people who have traveled in time with his machine.
		And you don't run into this very frequently.
		So my question to you is, if it works, where are you first going to try to go?
unidentified		Well, you know, I actually have thoughts of wanting to travel dimensionally.
		In other words, travel to a higher dimension versus traveling to another time.
		Because he claims that you can use it for that as well.
		Okay.
		In other words, we're supposedly in the third dimension, and I'd like to travel to the fourth or the fifth dimension, which supposedly exists right here now.
		We just can't see it.
		We can't feel it because it's like a different channel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, those deep thinkers like Dr. Michio Kaku agree.
		So it's entirely possible.
		Now, Michio Kaku would say, no, we do not yet have enough energy to travel.
		But of course, Stephen Gibbs' machine is a little different.
unidentified		And I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are several who say it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, so you may make a dimensional hop, huh?
unidentified		Well, we're going to give it a shot.
		But before you let me go, I just wanted to say one other thing about the fact that it was 666 days to 2000.
		Yes.
		When you said that, my heart about jumps because when I got the machine, the UPS number, the last three numbers on it were...
		It's not a big deal about the number.
		It was more or less the synchronicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		You want some more synchronicity?
		I'm not going to say who, but one of my guests in the next three days has a phone number that ends in 666.
unidentified		Well, that was the other thing.
		Somebody had called me, left a message, and their number had the last three numbers were 666.
		And then I was driving home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you call them back?
unidentified		Yeah, I did.
		But it was just somebody that had called me.
		But then I was driving home, and the car that I was following, the license plate number, was 666.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to be kidding.
unidentified		No, no, so I'm going, well, this is really kind of strange.
		I'm seeing these 666s all day, and then you come on the radio and tell me that it's 666 days until 2000.
		I'm going, hmm.
		Now, isn't that synchronistic?
		The end is near.
		666, come with me to the millennium.
		Yeah, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate the call of synchronicity.
unidentified		All right, well, good hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		666, it's all over the place.
unidentified		But it's like, I'll tell you what it's like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like when you buy a car, all of a sudden you begin noticing all the other cars.
		For example, if you get a brand new GeoMetro, I like Geos, so I use that comparison.
		Then you're riding around town.
		All of a sudden you see GeoMetros everywhere.
		It's like GeoMetro City.
		And I think that's what's occurring with 666.
		I mean, after all, that is a reoccurring number all over the place, right?
		I mean, at one point, consider, my website would have had 6,666,666.
		So, and for some people, that's too much.
		I mean, they're ready to faint.
unidentified		Skiss
		Coast to Coast AM, sure it sounds great in the middle of the night.
		But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
		The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
		For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
		As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Nouri and special guests.
		The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
		Visit CoastToCoastAM.com to sign up today.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First?
unidentified		Yes.
		Oh, no.
		Amazing.
		Fantastic.
		Yeah, I've got a pretty good theory as to what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		I want to hear it.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's almost hard to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Manitoba's the province, and Canada's that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how you created it in the north, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me hear you say unique New York three times fast.
unidentified		Unique New York, unique New York, unique New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Must be something about Canadians.
		You're the first one who's ever done that.
		All right, what's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, you're talking.
		Are you guys still talking about this strange breast flesh-eating disease?
		Or am I hearing a recording on my radio?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we're talking about that.
unidentified		Ah, okay.
		Well, I've got a really interesting theory.
		I'll start with the frogs.
		You've noticed that the mutations in the frogs as of late, the media's briefly touched on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I meant to mention, I've got it in the other room.
		Someplace today, it rained frogs.
		I forgot to bring in a tear.
unidentified		Are you still there, Eric?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm here.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yeah, well, I know exactly what's causing.
		I don't know why they're raining frogs, but I do know why they're mutating.
		And it's the UVB rates.
		They're steadily increasing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, you maniacal.
unidentified		By all means, don't take anything I say for truth until you find out for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, you're absolutely correct.
		That is exactly what's causing the mutations.
		They were saying that it was some sort of thing from snakes, you know, or something.
		Oh, it's not.
unidentified		Oh, you wouldn't even believe what they tell us here in Winnipeg.
		We had it on the front page of our newspaper.
		They were saying this boy had a frog in his hand, and he was saying, he's not a freak, he's my friend.
		And they interviewed the head of the zoology department.
		I believe it was either the University of Manitoba or the University of Winnipeg, one or the other.
		And he had said that this was just a curiosity.
		But it's well substantiated fact going back, I believe, all the way back to 1978, and tests after tests have confirmed this.
		What they did was they just took some tadpole, the eggs in the pond, put a UVB filter over half of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not the other.
unidentified		And not the other.
unidentified		And of course, what ends up happening is the ones with the filter survive and become healthy frogs, and the other ones become mutated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the results of that test showed that a very high percentage of those exposed simply died.
unidentified		The few that lived mutated.
		Yeah, well, another thing, another thing that's very interesting is the way the UVB is indexed.
		Like, instead of giving us the milliwatts per meter reading, now that's the number we need, instead of giving us that, they play all these games to justify their jobs.
		Like in Canada, the machine would cost less than $200, first of all, to measure milliwatts per meter.
		Instead, here in Canada, they're done in only two cities, Montreal and in Toronto.
		And they do the readings for the whole country.
		And they're not even based on any local daily readings.
		You watch.
		They factor in elevation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
		You watch.
		The day will come when they will be giving regular UV danger indexes and people will stop going outside.
		Well, and before you know it, they're going to be eating Ed Dame's survival.
unidentified		Well, it causes cancer.
		It's extremely serious.
		Like another – and that's partly why I think it's – It's amazing that I get to talk to you because a lot of people are familiar with these things.
		Like Tesla, he came up with free energy 100 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, listen.
unidentified		Okay, but anyway, I'll just finish the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't start me on that because there's no reasonable current free energy device that you can go out and get until there is.
unidentified		Oh, we have, there's buses in Vancouver, there's buses in China, they run just on hydrogen.
		But one other thing about the frogs, though, the frogs that are devastated the first, the first ones that go extinct, are the ones that have the least amount of photoase.
		And photoase is an enzyme that protects the DNA from the radiation.
		And when you have the mutations happening with the radiation, the enzyme goes in there and corrects it.
		Now, the smaller amount of that enzyme you have, the more mutated you as a species will become.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to leave the line now, sir.
unidentified		Thanks for your time, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		Now, maybe there will be a campaign to get us used to the fact that frogs have, you know, like eight or nine legs.
		He's not a freak.
		He's my friend.
unidentified		Look at him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bumpy little frog.
		All nine legs, aren't they nice?
		Used to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, pray tell?
unidentified		This is Ron in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		The Art Bell Chat Club Coordinator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for Sioux Falls?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Yeah, we are just having our second meeting coming up here in a little over a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These things are proliferating all over the place.
unidentified		We're number 28.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number 28.
		Aren't you really number 28?
		Yeah.
		Anyway, I'm glad to have you.
		Are you going to have a speaker?
unidentified		Not yet, but hearing one of your guests coming up, I'd like to get a hold of him maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which one?
unidentified		Steve Gibbs.
unidentified		Stephen Gibbs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to talk to Stephen, huh?
unidentified		Since he is just a- You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he would be ideal for a chat club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when I call Stephen, probably tomorrow, I will ask him about exactly that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I'll send you an email with my email address.
		All right.
		And that I've talked to Tim.
		And unfortunately, my information hasn't gotten up on the web yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it'll make it.
unidentified		Oh, I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're updating that as quickly as possible.
unidentified		Yeah, when we had our first meeting, we got preempted here locally when he was on because a basketball game went late.
unidentified		But I did get a couple people show up that heard it at 5 o'clock in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, the late broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, listen.
		Long time listener, sir, and listen while I work every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, generally, I found Thank You Talk Radio makes whatever you're doing go faster.
		I don't know what I do without talk radio driving at night.
		That's when I listen.
		When I drive, and I love driving.
		I think I'm a nocturnal human being, you know?
		All these years of doing this shit.
		I don't like driving during the day.
		I want to drive at night.
		Oh, give me night any day compared to the daytime.
unidentified		God, maybe I'm mutating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jeez, there's a thought.
		After all these years, maybe I'm mutating in some sort of nocturnal, half-peral human being.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Ooh, that's a deep good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in St. Catherine, so I will not be here long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		I'll call myself Diogenes because I'm looking for an honest man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Where are you?
		You're leaving there because of what?
unidentified		Well, I have maintained silence for 30 years under the agreements that I made with the United States government.
unidentified		And I think now is the time to speak if one has information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What does this, what is this in reference to?
		Go ahead, stow your guts.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I want you to think back to the mid-60s when there was a plethora of sheep which were killed near a place called Dugway, Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall.
unidentified		If one saw the Andromeda strain, one has some idea of the testing facility that was maintained at Dugway.
		What you were not told with regard to the death of those sheep was that they died of a strain of botulism which had become capable of being spread by an aerosol.
		Since that time, we have had the introduction of perhaps five or six what were common bacterium which have now become fatal bacterium.
		Including this new flesh-eating flesh-eating strepe A, a disease called Staphylococcus I42.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, I'm faced with going to the top of the hour here.
		Let me ask you two key questions.
		One, were you personally involved in this program?
		Yes.
		Okay.
		So the information you're giving us is first-hand knowledge.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on a line where you're paying for the call.
		I am going to give you a choice of holding you over and letting you pay for it, or I am going to come onto the line during the break and get your phone number and call you back so I'm paying for the call, but I want to hear more.
		Or you can call at a future time.
		That's A, B, or C. Which do you prefer?
unidentified		Well, I'm going to have to call you back at a future time.
unidentified		I have some other commitments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then.
		All right, then.
		Then be sure you do send me email privately or fax me or whatever, and I will get you on the air and let you tell your whole story, all right?
unidentified		Very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		We're faced with the top of the hour coming up very quickly from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		The Trip Back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		alone.
		Looking out for a place to go Where they're talking about music Premier Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, for two days now, been laboring over my webcam situation, and man, are they working?
		Boy, are they working.
		So if you want to check out my studio cam and see the fruit of my labor, go right ahead.
		You know, I just got a call from my boss who said that the last three numbers of his Social Security number are 666.
unidentified		So I told him, well, that means you're probably going to make a lot of money and go to hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about frustrating electronic projects, and Alan Corbett, that is my boss and myself, have a very similar electronic background.
		And he reminded me of old agony.
		Those of you in electronics know, in years past, not modern televisions, on top of the line protons or Sonys or whatever.
		But the older TVs, when I was young, I fancied myself as, you know, I could repair anything or break it.
		Then my average was about 60-40.
		40% of the time I'd fix it.
		Reminded me of converging TVs.
		Any of you in electronics will recall the old days.
		It was Project Impossible.
		Televisions in that day really never did converge, for those of you who know what that is.
		That means that everything hitting the front of the tube is hitting it as it should, and the colors look just right.
		Well, they never converged, and you used to have sort of green around either the left or right-hand side or above or below objects.
		And it was an eternal challenge.
		It's like Rubik's Cube, in a way, trying to get a TV to converge in the old days.
		It couldn't be done.
		But I would spend hours and hours and hours trying.
		And I received several incredibly, and that may account for my present behavior, incredibly large shocks from televisions.
		Really don't know why I'm still alive.
		Forecasters failed to predict one element of the weather yesterday in Croydon, wherever that is.
		It rained frogs.
		True story, folks.
		The strange event was included during a report by Suzanne Carlton at the BBC Weather Center, that's CENTRE, after a distraught woman rang the meteorological weather office at Bracknell at breakfast time to say that dead frogs were falling from the sky and covering her garden and the entire immediate neighborhood.
		Staff at the inquiry desk had thought the call was a hoax until the woman's attitude made them take her seriously.
		The National Forecaster there said, quote, you do get reports of things getting sucked up by water spouts, which are rotating columns of water or tornadoes that have to go over a lake or something with a lot of frogs on it.
		Well, I don't know if I believe that or not, and I certainly don't believe the current reports or lack of reports, I guess I ought to say, with regard to the flesh-eating bacteria.
unidentified		Bad music
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
		Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
		I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
		Not just assault weapons, but pure guns and want to get them out of America's hands.
		In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
		We don't need this.
		We don't need that.
		So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
		Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you now a little bit about Dale Graff.
		We're about to talk about remote viewing.
		It is a fascinating topic.
		And when they sent the literature on Dale Graff, it read about like this.
		Former director of government's Stargate program speaks out.
		For 17 years, Dale Graff was the leading researcher and expert in the Defense Department in the area of parapsychological phenomenon, ESP, remote viewing.
		He founded and served as the director of the controversial and secret Stargate program, which received federal funding to investigate and use remote viewing to gather intelligence information.
		You tonight, how his expertise in parapsychological phenomena led to a formation of what we now know to be Stargate.
		How the U.S. used psychics to gather information and intel.
		He's been in all kinds of alphabet agencies.
		We'll roll through that in a minute.
		He, Dale Graff, was interviewed on the Nightline program in 1995 when all of this was broken publicly.
		As a matter of fact, they did a full program on Stargate, and Dale was one of those on Nightline.
		I talked to Dale, I think, about a year ago, and he was not ready to come forward at that time.
		Here from, if I recall correctly, the state of Maryland is Dale Graf.
		Dale, welcome.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello, welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't I call you about a year ago?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was about a year, year and a half ago.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we talked, and for some reason then, you weren't quite ready to say anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How come?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought it was premature.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I was working on a book, and I just simply wanted to concentrate on that, and it just didn't seem like it was the right time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your book is now out, right?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That would be the right time.
		All right.
		You have been in...
		This guy was CIA or NSA or whatever.
		So right up front, what agencies have you been in?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I started off as the Air Force, which is a part of the Department of Defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		D-O-D.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		D-O-D.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And then I eventually moved to the Defense Intelligence Agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DIA.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So I've only ever been in the Department of Defense.
		The program that originally initiated remote viewing research at the Stanford Research Institute in 1972 was initially sponsored by the CIA, but they bowed out about a year and a half after that.
		So the primary responsibilities for keeping the remote viewing research alive, and then later on, when an independent group came in within government to help set up the in-house remote viewing group at the Army area in Fort Bean, Maryland, that was also DOD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did the first agency bow out?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		My understanding, and I've had some long discussions with the principal researchers there, Dr. Harold Putoff particularly, that this was politically driven because the original funding that was covering the early exploratory work in remote viewing research was in some group that did a lot of other unusual activities, and that whole area was canceled.
		So that was one of the main reasons.
		It was part of an area that was simply demolished at the time, so to speak.
		So they lost their funding through that.
		And I'm sure there were probably other reasons, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the reasons that I've heard was the big accusation that we canceled it because it didn't work.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I was talking about the early discontinuation in 1973.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I realize that, but I mean the ultimate end of the program, and by the way, I don't believe it's ended.
		We'll talk about that.
		But the ultimate reason for cancellation, and supposedly why the government is now no longer doing this sort of thing, is because it didn't work.
		Would you like to address that?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		The final report, the report that was finally published in 1995, which was sponsored by the CIA, the CIA didn't do the report.
		They just paid for an external agency to do that, recommended that the effort be discontinued.
		But that was only based on the last two years of the project activity, which by that time had been named Stargate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You named it Stargate.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right.
		When I eventually became the chief or the director of the Stargate unit in 1989 thereabouts, until I retired in 1993, when I first took over the area, I renamed it.
		And of course, this was fairly standard when you change responsibilities to change names.
		In fact, it's almost automatic that you do this on any project.
		I coined the name Stargate.
		Now, we had a group meeting on this, and there were a number of names considered, but none made any sense.
		I wanted to have a name that had a ring to it, that had some symbolism to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this does.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So I came up with this.
		It was kind of a compromise, but I came up finally with the name Stargate because I felt it symbolized an innovative project for reaching beyond the horizon of human potential.
		So it just seemed like a good name to have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a good name.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is before that movie came out.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		There was a movie that came out a year or two later, also called Stargate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they borrow that from you?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so, because the movie was probably in progress at the time.
		It would be surprising if they borrowed it.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Stargate now, the implication.
		I interview a lot of very interesting people among them.
		Dr. Michio Kaku, one of the leading theoretical physicists in the country, and he believes that an actual Stargate is possible, that one could actually be built.
		Now, there are many ways of reaching out across the stars.
		Is remote viewing one of those ways?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		As far as time travel or accessing information at distant galaxies, is that what you're asking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me put it this way.
		I have interviewed many, many remote viewers who were in your program.
		Many of them, Dale, and I'm probably jumping way ahead here, and I am jumping way ahead, indicate to me that they have met all sorts of unexplainable entities that one might characterize in all sorts of ways while remote viewing.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, I don't really know how to comment on that.
		The only thing I can say is that whenever you do any work in this mental framework, you will be bumping into perhaps symbolic aspects.
		Carl Jung, one of my favorite psychologists, would have terms like archetypes.
		These could be representative of something within the psych.
		And I really am not sure if they at all represent anything beyond that.
		I'm not saying they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it could be the person's own psyche as well.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You know, I kind of see them almost as aspects of oneself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, the whole idea, as I understood it, of remote viewing, was that a remote viewer separates himself, is trained to separate himself from his own imagination.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a nice ideal, but I really don't think, in practice, you can assume that that's what's happening.
		Things will come in.
		It's very difficult to separate yourself totally from other aspects of your psych.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the military program, that is a Defense Department program, that's what they tried to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the goal, wasn't it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No.
		The goal was not that at all.
		The goal was just simply to rely.
		Again, let me talk about a basic remote viewing protocol, which basically came out of the laboratory work at the Stanford Research Institute in the early 1970s.
		There was nothing really unusual about it.
		In fact, this is what I'm trying to do in my book, Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
		I'm trying to show that this phenomenon is a very natural kind of capability that we all have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That we all have.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and there's nothing unusual about it.
		I use terms like extending intuition.
		And what we're doing is making intuition more specific.
		We're capturing those basic impulses that we pick up through our psychic senses.
		And I do like the word psychic, even though a number of people, some of my colleagues do not.
		We pick up these impressions through whatever the psychic mechanism is.
		And in the research community, this is referred to as psi, PSI, psi phenomenon.
		And I like that term because it's very neutral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it real?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Is psi phenomenon real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		After working with this area for over 25 years, I'll definitely say the phenomenon is real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And remote viewing?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Remote viewing I see as a subcategory of psi phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And more use of it.
		I have frequently referred to remote viewers as disciplined or trained psychics.
		Is that fair?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can go along with part of that.
		The idea of being disciplined is up to discussion.
		It depends what discipline you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm talking about the protocols.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		Yes, correct.
		There are protocols that one follows when one is doing remote viewing or any other form of SI investigation, whatever name you want to call it.
		You have to have some kind of procedure or protocol.
		You may fool yourself.
		You don't know what you're getting.
		So in that sense, it's disciplined, yes.
		And as I was saying earlier, remote viewing, in my view, in my estimation, is a part of a larger or umbrella term like psi.
		It's kind of related to extra sensory perception, which is an older term.
		Now, anytime, anybody want to do research or practical applications using this phenomenon, you have to follow some kind of procedure or you may not know exactly what you're getting.
		So I agree, there is a need for protocol and making sure that you're not being influenced unduly by second guessing or somebody's expectation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your imagination, whatever.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And the imagination is always going to be a tough one to keep out.
		And that's why when people say they have mastered that, I have serious doubts.
		I have not seen any evidence of that in the laboratory work and even in the application work I've looked at over the past two decades.
		All right, Dale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who developed, came up with the protocols?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who came up with it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		The initial protocol is fairly standard for how you do any parapsychological experiment.
		You know, there's the need to make sure the, if you're doing experiments, you have to have some kind of target pool, something you can draw from that's homogeneous, it can't be second-guessed, randomized, nobody knows about it.
		So it's blind, a double-blind kind of situation.
		So then that's part of the procedure.
		Then the strategies that people use can vary.
		And this is, I think, what people are quibbling over right now.
		People that have been formerly on the project have certain approaches, call them strategies.
		But there's a protocol there, too.
		Now, the early protocol was fairly simple, the one used by the researchers at Stanford University.
		The strategies were left pretty much to the individual's discretion.
		But the scientific protocols were the same.
		And those are the ones that should be the same no matter who is doing this.
		But the strategies vary.
		And I think this is where we're running into some differences in viewpoint from the former remote viewer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me read you a fact that I just got.
		Right.
		It says, remote viewing or remote feuding.
		Hey, Art, is it just me or do you detect a little bit of contention between the various remote viewing camps?
		I've been checking out the various websites and I'm seeing a lot of, quote, I'm the only one who knows what he's talking about, end quote, attitude.
		Maybe we could have a contest between the various camps and you could decide who really knows what's up.
		The question is, why are so many people shooting like crazy people who were in your program?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That is a very astute observation.
		I'd like to send an email to that writer.
		He's right on target.
		It's a puzzling thing.
		I've often wondered about this over the years.
		And I've noticed this with different people that have even been in the laboratory situation, not just simply people that were on the remote viewing project in government.
		I think there's a lot of personal ego involved.
		I think it's like not invented here.
		We see that all over in ordinary research, too, not just this area.
		You get a certain personal commitment to a procedure and it works for you, and by damn, it's got to work for everybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is Ingo Swan the father of remote viewing?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a question as to who termed, who came up with the term remote viewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you might be the father.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, I came in a couple of years after.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you might be the godfather.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, I helped.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Let me, I need to explain the history a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dale, that's exactly what we'll do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll pick up on the history when we come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dale Graff, who did coin the term Stargate, is my guest.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		www.fema.org
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere Inside, tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil Grapp is my guest.
		He was a guest on Nightline when they finally blew the whole thing public.
		That in, in fact, our government, over a period of 20 years, I think it was, the CIA, Department of Defense, and many others had been dabbling with PSI, the ability to remotely view things and people and events and possibly even view through time.
		They really never covered that part of it on an eyeline, but we'll talk about it in a moment.
		And we'll get the history of remote viewing.
		know it's new to a lot of you.
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		At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, once again, here is the man who coined the term Stargate, Operation Stargate, the man who was on Nightline when all of this was...
		I'm really, really interested in how it came public.
		But right now, Dale Graff, who's almost going to have to yell at us because we don't have a great connection, Dale, you'll have to stay good and close to the phone.
		Give us a little bit of history of remote viewing.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		But before I do that, I would like to clarify the point we got off on just at break time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		The difference between protocol and strategies.
		Anytime you do any experiment, you need a fixed protocol to make sure that what you're getting is the valid phenomenon.
		And that's fairly well fixed.
		It just keep track of things, good record keeping, that type of thing.
		Strategies is the attitude that people take in how they generate the impressions.
		And this is where the problem is coming in with some of the former colleagues, I think.
		They have a certain approach and they feel that that's the only one.
		And this is just an incorrect view.
		The attitudes that one has in how you uncover this psi ability or remote viewing ability or whatever you want to call it are strictly personal.
		So this is why there's so much differences of opinion and I think dissension because then it becomes a matter of ownership too much.
		So having said that, unless you want to comment on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, only in the sense that now that you've said that, I've got to understand the protocols.
		Now, you take somebody, anybody, because you say everybody equally, and I don't know if I believe that or not, Dale, that everybody equally could be a remote viewer.
		Others have said that to me, but surely, Dale, there must be some that psychologically and mentally with regard to PSI ability are better than others naturally.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		And I don't think anybody is saying anything different.
		What is being said, the way I hear it and the way I see it, is that we all have some latent ability to achieve some level of psych talent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		But it's like, say, a pianist.
		Some people do real world early on and go into the concert.
		Others only dabble away at chopsticks.
		So it's that kind of spread, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, to give people an idea, now I've interviewed many times Major Ed Dames and many of the other remote viewers who were in that program.
		And for example, gas canisters in Iraq, it is said, were located by the remote viewers years ago.
		And when they got to Iraq, they found the gas canisters, which were drawn, in the place where they said they would be.
		Is that a true story?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		It's information I just don't I cannot relate to.
		If it happened, it was information when I was not directly connected with the project or it happened at some point later on.
		But I am not familiar with that incident to pass on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		If I were a remote viewer and you were my control, Dale, what would be happening?
		Give me an example.
		I mean you and I are in a room and how would it work?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well first of all we have to define how you begin the process.
		What is the objective?
		And I would assume that if you are wanting to do a remote viewing session that there is some definition of the target.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		All right.
		Let's pick one.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so in the research environment, this is usually selected from a randomized target pool.
		And this could be from a dozen or hundreds of possibilities, depending how it's set up and the purpose.
		The purpose of that randomization is to make sure that no second guessing occurs and to give your own subconscious free reign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, give me an example of what a target might be.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if you're doing a remote viewing session and the objective is to describe a remote area, then a target could be any geographic site.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		If there's somebody visiting it, in the early days we called this a beacon person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's say a radar site, a Russian radar site in Siberia.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So in this case, in a case like this, now you target an operational project.
		So now you already know the kind of area you want to go to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So in this case, there would have to be some way to relate to your subconscious mind what that location is in the targeting sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without actually telling me what it is.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Without saying, now today we're going to remote view a radar site.
		We're going to say we're going to find some way to randomize or to arbitrarily label the target.
		We found using some arbitrary labels, early on it was thought just an earth coordinate.
		Eventually it was found that some randomized numbers would do the trick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Now here's the part that I have never been able to comprehend, and maybe you can help me out here.
		You as my control, you would pick that.
		would you pick that randomized number uh...
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		it could it either could be The randomization needs to come from somebody not connected directly with the session.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it's a totally unconnected random series of numbers.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's one procedure, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what those numbers are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a control, as my control?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you say control, if you're referring to somebody who's doing the interviewing, is that what you mean by control?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		In that case, then I would read the numbers to you.
		Or it could be some other thing.
		It could be target XYZ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, would you know what the numbers represent?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, you should not.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		If you do, the experiment is contaminated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not me, but you.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what I meant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you don't even know what the numbers are, you know?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That would contaminate the whole process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you read me the numbers.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I then, based only on those numbers, begin to visualize or try to visualize what the target is, and I draw as much as I can of what I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that about right?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's generally correct.
		Some people prefer to draw.
		Others will maybe write some feelings or words that come to mind.
		It's not always a visual thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's what I don't understand.
		Here's where I get stuck, Dale.
		Okay.
		At some point, there has to be a transference from the person who decided what the target, the radar base in Siberia, was going to be, and the guy sitting there actually doing the remote viewing.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And this is actually the biggest puzzle of all.
		In fact, any future research, I would hope, would help shed some insight on this problem.
		It's a real mystery.
		But for the purpose of practicality, it's been observed that all you need is some kind of identification, some kind of link.
		You could put your thumbprint on the piece of paper and it might work.
		I'm really exaggerating here.
		But you need something to identify a link between the objective and what apparently triggers your subconscious response.
		And I cannot explain it.
		It's really a mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there actually has to be some form, in my way of thinking, of telepathy occurring between the person who is deciding what the target is and the remote viewer.
		There has got to be some connection to that number, some connection, or how is all of this happening?
		That's one part I just don't get, and I guess you don't either.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have theories, and so do some of the researchers.
		One of the theories, which might even be the leading contender here, is that the remote viewer is actually perceiving his future knowledge.
		So that what you're doing is sketching something that you will then learn at some point later on in time.
		It's like meeting yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So I'm just saying that's one concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is one that would explain it.
		That had never occurred to me.
		So that is almost, that's almost time travel, isn't it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, because we still need to define what time is.
		I'm somewhat comfortable with this concept.
		It seems to cover a lot of other problems which this field has.
		But the idea of time, let me comment on that a little bit.
		In terms of time, are we talking about probabilities of the future or something fixed or what is the future?
		When it comes to time travel, I'm not sure.
		It seems to me that we may be projecting a probable future and anticipating these probable futures.
		We're not really ahead in time.
		We're just creating a scenario of a probable future in current time.
		We could be wrong.
		But at the time the session is done or performed, it's the most likely one.
		You follow what I'm getting at here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure I do.
		You say it's not time travel in the classic sense, and yet it really is.
		Okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		It's a perception of time.
		For example, again, I'm giving you my perspective, and a number of people will not agree with me.
		But let's talk about past time, because people have talked about that a lot, too.
		Retro time, traveling back in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Here it may be that anyone with this side talent or remote viewing talent, whatever you want to call it, is accessing some holographic-type record, and it's not going back in time.
		It's just finding a place somewhere that has this recorded information.
		It's like walking into the library.
		You're not going back in time.
		You're just finding an old book.
		This is the analogy I'm trying to make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we're talking about a future or an event distant geographically but in our current timeline, Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I understood you correctly, you said the remote viewer is somehow able to read or, through the PSI talent, actually report what he will know in the future.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's one idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to me, that's time travel.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You can call it that.
		I'm not sure if I would call it that.
		I would call it accessing probabilities of the future in real time.
		Maybe we're just quibbling over somatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		That's all we're doing.
		But I don't see it as time travel.
		I just see it as you're sitting here now, and somehow subconsciously your subconscious mind has rattled off all the probabilities that are coming your way in the future, and this is the one that's pumping out at that moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but you could do that with a computer.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you probably could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you probably couldn't remote view with a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's some difference between a computer, which is great at running through probabilities, and a human being, which seems to be required for remote viewing.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure there is.
		In fact, I would be the last one to say that there would be the same.
		But in terms of what is actually going on, I'm more comfortable with the idea of a subconscious way of accessing future probabilities.
		It just happens to be where I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't blame you for not wanting to get too comfortable with the term time travel, but as you broke it down, it sure sounds like that.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, maybe it is.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I just have a different way of looking at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could, for example, leap ahead and understand your knowledge of your own investments in the stock market two years or five years from now, you'd really be on to something, wouldn't you?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Again, this gets into the probability thing, because when you're going into something like that, which has a huge amount of other interactions, almost an infinite amount of other decisions are going on in that time frame.
		I would say, if you do come up with a perception of what a particular stock might be five years from now, I would give it a low probability of occurrence.
		There are too many other things going along that would affect potentially that outcome.
		It's a possible future, but I would say it's not a probable one.
		So here I go, back to my probability way of looking at things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I think this is exactly what happens in most of the so-called precognitive statements that you read about from time to time in a paper, or any time people try to perceive very far ahead in time.
		Things don't work very well.
		Once in a while, you'll come into something that's very mind-blowing, but without a chance, guess or not, you don't know.
		But I'm saying I don't see an awful lot of evidence for accurate stuff beyond some near-term field that we have.
		I'm just not comfortable with anything beyond a few weeks at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were in the Department of Defense with this program, the NDIA, what was the general attitude about you and your group?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they think you guys were out of your minds?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were people that did that, but early on we had some very encouraging people in the chain of command at various levels that thought we were not out of our mind, but that we were ahead of time, more or less.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Here he's timing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You got me going.
		But we were looked at as sort of an innovative, creative group.
		But that was because the mindset and the attitudes of the early managers in our chain of command were very innovative.
		They were very futuristic in a sense.
		Later on, when there were a number of people that came on board at higher management levels that really did not have any comfort level with this field at all, and this is one of the reasons.
		There were others, but this is one of the reasons that the group had to take a low profile.
		In fact, one of our military commanders even asked us not to do anything for one whole year for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So there's a high discomfort level.
		And once we got through that, then another commander came in that didn't feel much better about that.
		So the latter part of the program was dodging negative viewpoints.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		from higher management yeah I assume eventually as you got commanders it was probably regarded by the commanders who got the assignment as a career ender or at least a career start.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh absolutely, absolutely.
		And I'm pretty sure this is what drove, what was really behind the motivation of one of the main military commanders that had his biggest say in closing the program.
		I think it had to do more with that more than anything else.
		And that the argument that the activity didn't yield any useful application results, I think, was just a cover for that overall mentality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a very important statement.
		You're saying they ended it.
		It was political.
		It was personal.
		It was prejudice.
		But it wasn't based in reality.
		You're telling me the program worked.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		There were times the program worked.
		That's what I'm telling you.
		And early on, had the review, if the review that was done in 1995 actually gone back and interviewed the people that had good success and looked at some of the records from the 1980s and that early timeframe, I don't see how they could have made a statement that there was no evidence for its feasibility or utility because there was stuff there that was really clearly quite good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you sound like a very well-grounded, rational human being.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I try to.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's one of the reasons I wrote Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness and that's to make sure that other people that want to take a look at this make sure that they do keep it grounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it take you long to accept the fact that this was actually happening?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh absolutely.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And in fact when I first became involved in this in 1976, early 1976 I really had strong doubts that there was anything at all valid going on in this thing called remote viewing or any form of psych.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can't do it as a skeptic?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but you know I was not the kind of skeptic that you find that ransom rames at the mouth.
		I had an open-minded attitude.
		I was very interested in creativity and things like that in general.
		So I didn't say no, but I absolutely did not say yes.
		This is great stuff.
		So I had to actually sit down, look at the experiments, I studied the history, I had to take a hard look at everything that was going on.
		I even had to go through some of the protocols myself just to see what it felt like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the impact on you when it suddenly dawned on you that what you were doing was real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That must have had an effect on you.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I think, yeah, it did.
		But I've had other interesting experiences too throughout my life.
		This was not that dramatic.
		I just didn't feel that upset about it.
		I could accept it.
		And what I said earlier, one of the biggest shocks I ever had, one of the biggest cultural shifts, was when I studied quantum physics.
		When I got through that, my mind was blown.
		I couldn't believe some of those concepts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you, Dale.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about college-level physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		We're at the top of the hour, so relax.
		You've got a good long break here, and we'll get back to you.
		Dale Bramp is my guest.
		He coined the name of Stargate Project Stargates.
		Because we'll be right back.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More somewhere in time coming up.
		Oh, baby, don't won't leave me away.
		I can't accept.
		I surely miss your symptom here.
		Don't leave me this way Baby My heart is full of love and desire for you.
		Now come now.
		Take a long way home.
		Take a long way home.
		When you're up one day, you know I won't believe at all.
		Oh, I'm together, I'm together.
		I'm together, I'm together.
		If anyone feels to think you're losing the sadness.
		Oh, the valley.
		With an only power.
		Oh, yeah.
		Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Dale Graff is my guest.
		Who is Dale Graff?
		He coined the term Stargates, Operation Stargates.
		And we're going to ask him about how all of this got public shortly.
		There was a program, a Nightline show, devoted entirely to this subject.
		The ability to see at a great distance or even through time objects, people, things, impressions.
		It's a kind of a sensing.
		It's PSI.
		It's whatever you want to call it.
		But whatever it is, it does work.
		And I don't know if you call him the father of remote viewing, Ingo Swan, who you would really call the father of remote viewing.
		But here's the guy who coined the term and was on Nightline.
		And I'm going to ask him about it.
		I'm really, really curious how something like this suddenly gets made public and how Nightline grabs it and does a whole show on it.
		I'm really curious about that.
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		At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
		Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
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		Looking for the truth, you'll find it on Coast to Coast AM.
		Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
		I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
		Not just assault weapons, but pure guns and want to get them out of Americans' hands.
		In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
		We don't need this.
		We don't need that.
		So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
		Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Outro Music All right, Dale Grath was the leading researcher and expert in the Defense Department in the area of parapsychological phenomena.
		That's quite a line.
		He was DOA, he was DIA, D-O-D, D-O-A, D-O-A.
		Sorry about that, Dale.
		D-O-D and D-I-A.
		Department of Defense, Department of Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency, actually.
		And by the way, the man you're listening to, Dale Graff, is going to be on ABC's Good Morning America on Tuesday, March 10th.
unidentified		This is the 5th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's going to be on Good Morning America, March 10th.
		So if you want to see Dale, that's going to be your opportunity.
		So the major media is obviously still very interested in Stargate, in remote viewing generally.
		Dale, you're back on the air now, and I want to ask you this, okay?
		How did the Nightline program coalesce?
		I mean, what a shock for America.
		It was one night there, Stead Coppel.
		There you are, there's others.
		And America is being told its government for 20 years has been dabbling in psychic phenomena.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that was quite a shock.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		It was a shock for me, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how did that happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get it on the nightline?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, after that report that the CIA had chartered to take a look at the area was completed, and that was done by an independent research group, the American Institute's Research.
		And when that was completed, it was actually completed at the unclassified level.
		There was no classification on that.
		And somehow a report, I shouldn't say somehow, after all, you know, this is Washington, D.C., somehow a report got passed around to the various media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Somehow.
		Yeah, and I'm not going to comment on that.
		Somehow it got passed around.
		And I guess the ABC program people saw this as a good item to jump on, and they just beat everybody to it.
		There were a number of people that got on the trail, but they were a day too late.
		So there was a lot of hustle at the time.
		But the key was that report being made available inside the beltway, and then it took off from there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you, having been DIA and DOD, did you have to consult or call anybody up before you agreed to be on that program?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		By that time I had retired.
		And I had been retired for two years when it broke.
		And I did not because it looked to me like I was going to keep my comments to within only those things that I knew I could talk about.
		So I just decided to bite the bullet and do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much, even now, Dale, is there with regard to that program that if you talked about, you'd end up behind bars?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think there's quite a few box fulls of data that still have some high classified labels on it.
		And that, I'm sure, has to do with places and people and that type of thing.
		I would never talk about stuff like that.
		But I can certainly talk about those things that already have been kicked around and some of the open research that we did over the years starting from the early 70s.
		We made every effort possible to get a lot of that released as we went along into the open research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When this report somehow got out, were you surprised or shocked or did you expect it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I was shocked.
		Let me qualify this.
		When it comes to reports being leaked in the Washington area, I should not be shocked because that happens.
		But in this case, since I had this personal connection, it really was shocking.
		I was kind of surprised to see that this get out so quick.
		I knew it was going on.
		I knew there was a report written.
		I wasn't exactly sure if it was classified or unclassified.
		But even if it was unclassified, I didn't think it would get out that quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm going to ask you something that I ask every remote viewer I have interviewed.
		And I've interviewed, I would guess, about a half dozen now of some of the biggies.
		So here it comes, Dale.
		If remote viewing really worked, which you affirm that it really works.
		At times, yes.
		Even at times.
		It would be a tool that our Defense Department or somebody in one of the alphabet agencies would absolutely consider to be indispensable.
		That's the word I would think of.
		Indispensable.
		And now, while they say all has officially ended, I don't believe it.
		And isn't there every reason to be suspicious that at some level that we're not hearing about, just like we didn't hear about this program until Nightline, that something like this with a different name maybe is going on covertly?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I suppose that's always possible.
		But after knowing and being through the mill like I've been through, I would say it's highly unlikely that something similar to Stargate is actually being done at an official level.
		Now, I think because of the Stargate activities and all the publicity, that a lot of people within government has got new interest in this.
		And I wouldn't be at all surprised if at an independent, private level, people aren't looking into this.
		But I think it's unofficial.
		And I'm pretty sure that there are a number of people that would be very interested.
		And like you said, it is a useful tool.
		You don't ever want to use this kind of stuff alone.
		And when you get right down to it, Art, many people already do use their intuitive remote viewing abilities in ordinary work.
		Talk about PIs and people that require this kind of basic talent.
		I think it's happening all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anticipating trouble behind any certain door framework.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it, yeah.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And I've seen a lot of instances after the fact where a PI photo interpreter came up with something that nobody could figure out how he came with that, only to be later verified, and he couldn't even know.
		He or she couldn't even know how he came up with it.
		So I think there was a little bit more than subtle intuition going on here.
		And this is why I think one of the accomplishments of Stargate, as well as the worldwide research, which goes back into 1882 when it first started in London, England, in this phenomenon, this related phenomenon, I think one of the contributions we made is to call attention to this innate capability that we all have and to inspire others to take a look to see what they can do themselves.
		And this is why I like to build it up from intuition.
		That's a very comfortable word that people are used to.
		And in my workshops, I use it a lot.
		And I even say phenomenon like remote viewing or telepathy or whatever you want to call some of these forms of presenting it is a way of making intuition specific.
		And it's just there in most of us.
		We're just allowing it to come forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there were certainly very strict protocols.
		I understand the Department of Defense protocols were extremely strict.
		Was there danger, Dale, to any of the participants in this program?
		And if so, what kind of danger?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely not.
		And this is where some of the people that are being very open about this are really misleading the public.
		Now, the reason I'm saying that is because, as you well know, in any government organization since the late 70s, there are some very, very strict human use review requirements.
		You've got to really go through the hoops.
		And we had to do that every year, show exactly what we were doing, what the people were subjected to, the types of projects.
		And I'm talking about across the board for anything that involved any question of human use that might be subject to this, any stress, anything of that nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dale, how were people recruited?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		How were they recruited?
		This varied.
		Early on, it was somewhat systematic in the sense that a certain Army group that passed out some questionnaires and used some kind of test procedure narrowed down possibilities.
		And these people were then put through tests.
		So there was a formal approach, a relatively formal approach at that time.
		And again, I'm talking about the in-house, the Stargate and its earlier counterparts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you adopt the parapsychological double-blind testing procedures?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I presume people went through that.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, once they were identified, then the test that went through were the protocols, here I use that word, the procedures that were generally in use at that time at the Stanford Research Institute.
		So put them through the test to make sure that there was nothing that we were misleading or anything of that nature.
		And those that did well then moved forward.
		Now there were other ways of finding people, too.
		And some of them we identified from the records.
		Others that they had an interest or experiences that made us suspect they could do well in this.
		Or it was word of mouth.
		And then we just put them to the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a very unusual unit that must have been.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And in fact, one of the many issues I think about over the years, there are a lot of things we could have done different.
		But you know, this is really an experimental type situation.
		It's new, innovative.
		There are a lot of things we didn't know that we know now.
		And I certainly, and I know others that were directly involved in the program, if it were ever to start up again, would do things quite differently in terms of selecting people, handling people, that kind of thing.
		But, you know, we didn't know everything at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you have said that you consider it highly unlikely that there is even a covert program underway in this country.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		In terms of an official program, that's where I am right now, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me now ask you, do you consider it as unlikely that there is a continuing program in all, perhaps Russia or Beijing or other capitals of the world?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think there's any doubt that at least the research part and also whatever you might call the applications part is still going on in other countries.
		There's a tremendous amount of interest, I know, under the Chinese side.
		And what contact I've had over the years suggests to me that there is still interest in the Soviet Union, or I should say Russia.
		Now, I'm sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a perfectly proper slip.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's what happens when you've been in the Cold War mentality too long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I'm sure, really, in my own mind, that I think today we live, in a lot of ways, in a far more dangerous world than we did then.
		I mean, now we have to worry about suitcase nukes, about 100 of them or whatever it is, and biological warfare and all kinds of horrid little things that we didn't worry about.
		I mean, back in my High school days, it was simply duck and cover under the desk.
		Today, it's a pretty dangerous world out there, and so my question is, if they're doing it in Beijing, if they're doing it in Moscow or Leningrad or wherever, then shouldn't we still be doing it here in view of the way you feel about the effectiveness of this?
		Shouldn't we be doing it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I think we should be, but I may want to question what the application is.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I would be more inclined toward applying this type of talent to things like predicting terrorist strikes or locating where, say, nuclear weapons might be clandestinely stored, that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Saddam Hussein?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you locate where the real Saddam Hussein is through remote viewing?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		It might be possible, but you know, there's a problem here.
		And it's called time-space changing.
		He moves around so much that by the time you get information, even if he were right on, it would be probably out of date.
		So there's the problem of how would you actually apply this stuff in a reasonable amount of time.
		So there are some real operational problems and constraints, as there are for any kind of data when you're talking about this type of application.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any restriction with regard to the information you gather?
		And what I mean by that is, can you gather information, for example, you want to know what the next winning lottery number is, you want to know what stock market is.
		I've had people tell me that that kind of information cannot be gathered, that only sort of positive information can be discerned.
		Is there any truth to that?
		I would imagine any science could be applied in any way, good or bad.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		It's one I've certainly been wrestling with for 20, 30 years.
		Now, let me answer that in several ways.
		In terms of numbers, like in lottery, I think the probability of success in applying either remote viewing or any form of SI is very low.
		In the research side, in laboratory work, we find that numbers and words are not usually picked up.
		Rarely.
		It does happen, but it's very rarely, and I would not put too much money on it if somebody comes up with a lottery number.
		So I think there's some kind of practical or operational limit with the phenomenon when you're trying to apply it to this type of information.
		Now, in terms of the restrictions, go broader than that, I think there's still an inherent problem with the phenomenon.
		It's really this.
		A remote viewer or somebody else with side talent, another kind of psych talent, however you call it, might be describing the contents of a building, for example.
		You may have a nice sketch, you may have pretty, things defined fairly well, but still be unable to identify or name what it is.
		And it streams, and this is where I think a lot of people get themselves into trouble.
		They think remote viewing, once you can describe the remote area fairly well, you can do anything.
		It's not omnipotent.
		There are practical limitations, and I think it has to do with how the phenomenon works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that where the danger comes in, that the person's imagination and ego take flight?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		Absolutely.
		You want to fill in.
		We still have that fight-flight syndrome in us.
		You have to know what's going on, particularly when you're working with this type of thing.
		You've got to flash over the impression.
		You want to know what it was you saw.
		So right away your imagination is right there lurking to leap in on you.
		Even if you draw a good sketch, keeping your imagination out of the way, at that point you're going to start trying to decide what it is.
		Unless your sketch is very good, you probably are not going to get it accurately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you, for example, assign a remote viewer a target like Jesus?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I would think that that is really calling for emotional overlay, imagination overlay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I would have my real doubts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but remember, they're simply being handed a number.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you're using the original protocols and they're simply getting a number, and could you assign somebody Jesus?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You could assign a, in the bond, you could assign the name of any particular figure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dale.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dale, hold tight.
		We're at the bottom there.
		I got a break right here or I'm in trouble.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere Inside.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4, 1998.
		Coast AM from March
		4, 1998.
		Coast AM from March 4, 1998.
		Coast AM from March 4, 1998.
		Premier Network presents Art Bell Somewhere Inside.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Dale Graham is my guest right now.
		We are about to open an alliance, and I'll let you ask him questions.
		He coined the term Stargate.
		He was in the original Stargate program, D-O-D-D-I-A.
		And he was on Nightline and is about to be on ABC's Good Morning America.
		You're not going to want to miss that.
		It'll be Tuesday, March 10th.
		And we'll try and ask more about that.
		He's got a book, and I know you're going to be interested in that as well.
		And we'll let him talk about that, too, in a moment.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Dale Graff.
		And Dale, I would like to describe an experiment I did about a year ago here on the program.
		All right.
		Which, I'm going to be honest with you, scared the hell out of me.
		We were at that time, as a result of your appearance on Nightline, we were talking about remote viewing.
		And one night I thought, well, let's give it a shot.
		Now, what I did was technically not remote viewing.
		However, I picked an object in my home and I asked people to try and visualize and draw that object.
		I didn't give them a control number or anything else.
		I just said an object.
		I had, I'm going to guess, several hundred responses.
		But I note two things, Dale.
		One, my wife was here in the house with me, participating.
		We both felt incredibly observed, I guess is the right word.
		If you've ever had the feeling that people are watching you, you know, and you turn around and sure as hell somebody's there watching you, we had that times a thousand.
		I mean, it was like a million eyes roving around in the house.
		Now, maybe that was our psyche.
		Fine.
		Then the faxes began coming in, and people supplied me with drawings of what they thought this item was.
		Now, here comes the scary part.
		The item was impossible to guess.
		It was a marble, a slab of marble with a photograph or an etching of me.
		And there was a specific frame that this little piece of marble was sitting in that could not possibly have been guessed at in a million years.
		And yet, Dale, two people drew the object that was in my living room, nowhere near my studio cams that I've got here.
		I mean, precisely, two people hit it on the nose, and a whole bunch of people almost hit it.
		It was so bizarre that it gave me the Heebie Jeebies until this very day.
		And I have just now, because I have these wonderful studio cams, I have brought the object into the studio, and I'm holding it up so everybody can see what was drawn.
		I wish I still have the drawings.
		I don't.
		But my wife is in the other room and will confirm everything I just said.
		Is that possible?
		Is that remote viewing?
		What is that?
unidentified		That's a good question.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Here we go to terminology again.
		Maybe it is remote viewing, maybe it isn't.
		Now remember, some people define remote viewing to be only remote viewing when you follow certain protocols.
		So we don't know what the individual doing this information gathering was doing.
		But I don't look at remote viewing like that.
		I look at it as a process which is kind of like clairvoyance or some other form of side perception.
		So I think in my viewpoint, it could have been remote viewing.
		There's another possibility.
		It could have been a mind-to-mind type of contact.
		In the older days, early term of the century, this was called telepathy.
		And I think even now, when people do remote viewing, there's still not enough certainty as to whether or not they're accessing the site or place or the knowledge of people at the place.
		So I still think of these possibilities together.
		They may have been accessing your knowledge.
		So I think, yes, you had a valid phenomenon.
		I don't quite know what to label it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't either.
		All right.
		We're going to take some phone calls and see what people have to say.
unidentified		All right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Before you do, I just wanted to mention about the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, look, absolutely.
		Let's talk for a second about your book.
		And I should have done that for you.
		I'm sorry.
		It's called Tracts in the Psychic Wilderness.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's just out from Element Books.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Element Books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where can people get it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Right now, it's in most of the bookstores that I've seen or heard about, but they're also on the website, the website that I have.
		There are ways of contacting and getting the book.
		So there are ways of getting the book right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But B. Dalton.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I'm coming into the bookstores.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		B. Dalton, all the big bookstores.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		sure that it's creeping into those bookstores right now.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Most of the big Well, give it your best shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
		What is in that book?
		Is it the history of Romania?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, this is why I wanted to get back to this book.
		Stargate is just a piece of this book.
		It's just simply my personal observations.
		I made no attempt to go into the depth and get all the players and all that.
		That was beyond what I wanted to do.
		I did not want to do that, and I will not do something like that.
		It's just my perception, the activities I had and some of my observations.
		So Stargate is a portion of the book, maybe 20%.
		I have a portion in the back end, which might be another 20%, which goes into a description of how I think most people can experience what we call remote viewing or psych dreaming or synchronicities.
		And I'll explain that in a moment.
		But the middle portion of the book is kind of the heart of the book, and it's a series of big nets, short stories, where I try to illustrate, where I do illustrate, what remote viewing is, what psychic dreaming is, and what synchronicities are.
		I see these all as interrelated together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Is there any instructional aspect to it?
		In other words, could a person read your book and try it themselves.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, that's what the last portion of the book is.
		Oh boy.
		Now I do not use, I'm not a very strict one when it comes to instructions.
		What I have there are observations and guidelines and recommendations of how people can go ahead and at least begin to open up this intuitive made specific phenomenon.
		So I have steps, not a protocol, not a recipe, but I have steps of how people can begin to investigate this potential of theirs.
		Now for those that want to go further, then I recommend how to do this from a tiger protocol point of view.
		But first you have to catch good psi, as the saying goes in the research community.
		And unless you know something is going on, there's no point setting up elaborate protocols.
		That can come later.
		I have procedures and recommendations, yes.
		But I also have the key ingredients.
		And the key ingredients are these.
		It's motivation.
		You really want to set down and decide to do it.
		It's intent, it's desire, it's suspending disbelief.
		Those are the kinds of things I emphasize in that part of the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it sounds like a valuable book for everybody.
		Is it hardcover or softcover?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		It's hardcover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hardcover.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Price?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		$19.95.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very reasonable.
		Is there a way?
		Many times when I have people on, there is a phone number.
		People can call to get the book if they cannot find it elsewhere.
		Do you have one of those?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do, and I'll get it in a second.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I just don't have it here at my fingertips, but we can get that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good test.
		Can you now remote view that?
		Oh, I forgot.
		Numbers are not good.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		For some people, once in a while they are, but I think numbers are generally unreliable.
		Once in a while you see numbers and names come through, but I wouldn't put much money on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		And by the way, most all of the remote viewers that I have had on, when I have asked that question, have responded that exact way.
		It's strange.
		The remote viewers all seem to agree on so much, and yet all hate each other's guts.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is the disturbing part of it.
		And this is one of the reasons why I have felt some pangs of sadness over the years why this should come about.
		And I think there's some inherent resistance that they have to admit that other people also can do this.
		It's almost like an ownership here, which I think is unfortunate.
		And this is exactly what I'm trying to get away from, this type of attitude in tracks in the psychic wilderness, to make it clear that most anyone can do some level of this, that no one is going to be set apart, unique, special, and all that.
		And I think this is what's happening.
		Some of these people are seeing themselves as too special.
		And when that happens, you get yourself into this ownership problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a little bit of the God complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that if you were given targets and you began to be successful at sensing and drawing targets, you would begin to think of yourself in a very different way.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Some people, unfortunately, do drift into that direction.
		You are absolutely correct.
		And this is another reason I decided to write this book, one of the biggest reasons.
		And that is this balance.
		You don't want to get into this if you have any kind of inclinations toward this type of personality, because it'll probably push you off the deep end.
		So you have to be very careful.
		You have to be grounded.
		You have to make sure that what you're doing, you keep your sense of humor.
		You don't get carried away with your own abilities.
		You don't get on the ego trip.
		And I'm really against people.
		I really feel strongly anti-people that get into the business on an ego trip point of view.
		So, you know, I agree with you.
		There is a kind of complex, and you really have to guard against it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, that could almost be called a danger.
		And I've had other remote viewers tell me that there were some remote viewers in the official program that got really carried away and had to be ejected from the program.
		Do you know if that's true?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if it was ejected.
		You know, in the environment we were in, particularly with the military people, every couple of years you wrapped a reassignment anyway.
		So it was a convenient time to move people on.
		That type of thing was happening.
		You were in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but yes, but most things are done for the convenience of the service.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I know that sometimes that doesn't happen.
		I know many instances not related to this program.
		But, you know, you're right.
		That type of thing could happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People end up in Tule, Greenland.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For that reason, Don.
		Right.
		All right.
		Oh, and your appearance on ABC's Good Morning America.
		What's coming Tuesday, March 10th?
		What are you going to do?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Talk about the book.
		And I'll touch briefly, I'm sure it'll come up on Stargate, but since that's not the main focus of the book, I'll be going into the field in general, to the overall discussion on the nature of the phenomenon, on synchronicities, on psychic dreaming, that type of thing.
		I have a whole spectrum of things I'll be talking about.
		And I really believe, Art, that most people who are interested in seeing if they have this intuition-made specific, as I'm beginning to call it, I suspect that most people can experience this in a dream state easier than any other state.
		So this is where I'm recommending people begin looking.
		So it's an easy thing to do, and most people can at least go to sleep in dreams.
		All you have to do is remember it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dale, I'm going to tell you a story that the audience is probably sick to death of, but it's my one honest-to-God, I know what happened to me experience, and I would like your take on it.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lived in Santa Barbara, California, worked at a radio station.
		I've been in radio all my life.
		Lived in a little garden apartment, came home one day from work, sat down, I'm a news junkie, put on the evening news, and sat there watching the evening news.
		It was the type garden apartment in Santa Barbara where you had a sliding door, a big double sliding door that would open, and I could look out at the street where I would park my car, which is right in front of the apartment, so I could always keep an eye on my car.
		But the curtains were closed, and I was watching the news.
		All of a sudden, I had the only way I can describe it is ocean waves, tremendous, giant ocean waves washing over me mentally, saying, hey, someone's going to hit your car.
		Something terrible is about to occur to your car.
		And it kept washing over me so strongly, and I finally said a word i can't repeat here and i got up opened the curtain looked out at my car said another word i can't repeat here went back and sat down and started watching the news again 30 seconds goes by all of this begins washing over me again and again and again i got angry with myself i walked back over um i looked out the window there was my car looking just fine here's a guy walking down the sidewalk
		uh out to out to uh toward my car he gets in the car in front of mine starts his engine puts it in reverse and slams into my car I tell you, Dale, it scared me so badly that I sank to my knees.
		But I was mindful enough to get up and yell out, open the sliding door and yell out, hey, I saw that.
		I've got your license number.
		He said, I'm stopping.
		I'm stopping.
		And that's all there was to it.
		But there was no question about it, Dale.
		Something was really telling me what was about to happen.
		And then it happened.
		What was that?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		This is exactly the kind of thing I address in Traction of Psychic Wilderness, because I think this is really where most people can best benefit from opening up to their psych talents.
		I suspect that we all at all times are kind of scanning around to see what's coming our way in the future.
		In this case, you probably pick up the intention of the man, and you sensed what he would then be doing when he got into his car that worked for you.
		These are not uncommon things.
		The research literature is full of these types of little premonitions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could that man know that he was about to go out and hit my car?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I think subconsciously, he was probably upset about something and there was something in his psyche that was reckless at the time.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So I'm just giving a possible explanation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, so I could have been picking up on his reckless feeling and I made the connection between his reckless feeling and his being parked in front of me.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's one possibility.
		Yes.
		There are others.
		You can just look at it as a straightforward perception of a future coming your way without looking into the psychodynamics of the man involved.
		You can do that too.
		But I'm inclined when I look at these situations, and I've had things like this happen to me.
		I've talked to many people in my workshops and have these exact kinds of things happen.
		And I'm a little surprised that you would react with fear, but a lot of people do.
		And it's a natural part of ourselves.
		And this is what I'm trying to do in Traction Psychic Wilderness, to get the fear component out of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know how that happened to me.
		It's never happened to me before.
		It has never happened to me since.
		And it was so overwhelming and so unambiguous that new things scare you.
		And seeing something come true like that, it was too much for me.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, right.
		So not knowing exactly what your frame of mind was during the day or whatever, you might have been in a very spaced-out feeling, pooretic kind of mind.
		You may have been just thinking, dreaming, that kind of thing.
		I was watching.
unidentified		Very creative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was watching the news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter Jennings, as I recall.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there was simply nothing special about the moment.
		I wasn't in any sort of altered state.
		I wasn't concentrating in any way.
		I couldn't stop it.
		It just, you know, it was overwhelming.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it just is one of those things.
		All I can say is it just happened.
		But I think it shows the tip of the iceberg on how you could probably draw onto that type of intuitive sensing at any time.
		You just have to put it aside and not be afraid of it.
		And this is what I'm trying to say in my book.
		And this is why I open it up to the dreaming or dreaming mind.
		This is why I opened it up to synchronicities, which I view as a very dynamic form of intuition.
		We don't really know why we go here or there, but all of a sudden there's a thing we're looking for.
		So we are subconsciously driven, and we don't know why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by synchronicity?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Synchronicity is one of my favorite experiences.
		And it's a coin term by Carl Jung almost a century ago, where he noted when he was working with some of his clients, he was a psychiatrist working in Zurich, Switzerland, that many times things would happen in the session that couldn't possibly be explained by normal coincidences because they had specific meaning.
		So the timing of the incident and the significance of the incident led Jung to think that these were synchronistic.
		They somehow happened due to an unknown principle.
		He called it some acausal synchronistic principle.
		Even in quantum physics we have terms like that, quantum synchronicity, for example.
		So he coined this and looked at this from a human point of view, that people are sometimes drawn into situations which are way beyond chance that satisfy some need at that time.
		And I see these as incidents that our subconscious mind has prompted us into.
		It's almost like a self-fulfilling wish.
		So I have many examples, some examples in my book, and I think many people experience these routinely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, an interesting question, since we don't have time to go to the phones before the top of the hour break anyway, and that is, do you think that this ability, this inherent ability, is something that we are evolving, keyword, evolving into, or some long-lost ability that we are regaining?
		What class do you think we've always had it?
		Is there more of it now?
unidentified		Are people becoming more psychic?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		And I'll answer this by kind of paraphrasing what Ed Mitchell said in the introduction to my book.
		And he sees these abilities as a reflection of our first sense, not our sixth sense.
		And his perception is that these were fundamental and came before all of the other senses developed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something very old now being recovered, then.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I see this as kind of a survival situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know Ed Mitchell, halfway to the moon, tried an experiment?
		I interviewed Dr. Mitchell, and he told me all about that.
		Listen, we are at the top of the arrow.
		When we come back, we're going to have to go to the phones.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stay right there.
		My guest is Dale Graff, the man who coined the term Stargate.
		It's all about remote viewing.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast A.M. More somewhere in time coming up.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dale Graff.
		It represents a very unusual opportunity for you to ask somebody who knows, somebody who actually coined the term Stargate, was D-O-D-D-I-A, telling you that right up front.
		But tells us that remote viewing, remote sensing, whatever you want to call it, is absolutely real.
		If you have a question, come now.
unidentified		Scoffs
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		Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
		I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
		Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
		I want to get them out of Americans' hands.
		In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
		We don't need this.
		We don't need that.
		So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
		Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End Once again, the one-time director of Operation Stargate, the Stargate program, Dale Graff.
		Dale, here's a very general question for you.
		All right.
		We have a deteriorating environment in America, in the world, really.
		We have new diseases, flesh-eating diseases, all this horrid little stuff running around.
		We've got new organisms in the estuaries of North Carolina that are killing fish and making people sick.
		We have air that's foul.
		We have ultraviolet that's pouring in.
		Where I'm going with this is to ask you, as some remote viewers have done, they have looked at our future as a planet and made some rather dire forecasts.
		Is that aspect of remote viewing, in your opinion, possible?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I believe, like I said earlier, that it is possible to tap into probable futures.
		And I think sometimes when people do this, whenever you're working with anyone that's working with a projection, you really need to know quite a bit about that own Individual psychodynamics.
		What is the nature of the individual?
		What is the psychological state of the individual?
		Because unfortunately, when you get into these way-out future scenarios, a lot of that personal stuff comes in.
		And it's very hard to filter out a doom and gloom type personality that might perceive everything negatively from someone optimistic that might perceive it too good.
		So I'm saying you've got to find a balance.
		And it's very difficult to find an individual that can perceive anything in remote viewing or science-based without having a little bit of their own personal psychodynamics get into the picture.
		And I would place any forecast or any projection that really looks totally negative in a very guarded perspective, because my suspicion is you're seeing a lot of the person's own perception coming in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grain of salt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't say a grain of salt, but you have to be a little careful with it.
		Because you can find other people that have an optimistic outlook, and you're not going to get anything like that.
		So I would suggest, if anything, one would pool results from people that have a track record in precognitive stuff.
		That would be the best approach, not to rely on any single individual, but to go to other variety of people and see what the consensus is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Grain of thought, folks.
		First time caller line, you're on there with Dale Graf.
		Top of the morning, where are you please?
unidentified		Concord, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Concord, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		You know, Art, by the way, your studio cam looks great.
unidentified		It's the best I've ever seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I worked so hard on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		You do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did.
unidentified		Anyway, sir, it's a pleasure talking to you.
		And I must admit, I'm not familiar with you at all.
		I'm just starting to get back into this.
		But about 16 years ago, a gentleman back east in Michigan, by the way, he's my old scout master who I love very much and I keep very much in contact with.
		Not to give a little plug to the Boy Scouts there, but he told us, me and him were sitting back in the campfire one night.
		He told me a story about, and I may be wrong about where this is at, but I believe it was Chinese monks that used to, I guess, I didn't know, I wasn't familiar with the term, but they would remotely view battles going on for the local king, I guess.
		And some of the things he was able to tell me is that they were so accurate, and they were doing this from hundreds of thousands of miles away.
		This is what's so amazing about this, that they were so accurate they could tell him exactly where the troops were, how to attack them, what supplies they were capable of, not over what they have with them, et cetera, how many numbers, blah, blah, blah.
		But it wasn't just one person, from what I understood, it was a whole team of monks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, does that sound like remote viewing or what?
unidentified		And this is like, what's amazing about this, if I remember right, this is like 800 to 1,000 years ago.
		And I'm wondering, is this where the government maybe got their inspiration from?
		Because obviously they don't have the quacks back then, so to speak, that we do now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, don't be so sure about that.
unidentified		Well, I was trying to be critical, but I'm not trying to be too critical, but you said today you have to separate the chaff from the grain, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
		I think your question, though, is superb, actually, and your story is.
		And that does really sound like remote viewing for strategic purposes, doesn't it?
		Dale?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're fading a little bit on me.
		I almost didn't hear you.
		But yes, I would agree with that.
		And why should it not?
		If we are now rediscovering this type of thing, that's about what it might be, that people with the right mental discipline from the yoga, various yoga techniques and whatever could very easily have stumbled upon this application centuries ago.
		Yes, that's what it sounds like to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I don't want to fade on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you hearing me okay?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I got your back down.
		You're sounding loud and clear.
		I'm sure I understood the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Wild Card Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dale Grant.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Omaha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Omaha, Nebraska.
unidentified		Right, Omaha, Nebraska.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Not for ego purposes, but I want to give you just a little bit of my background.
		I did my graduate work in general relativity and completed quantum electrodynamics at two-dimensional with Feynman.
		He came up to UC Berkeley for a seminar.
		Now, that is going to sound real strange when everything else evolves from that.
		Do you have a question, sir?
		First off, I have a couple of questions.
		Anybody heard of the Keys of Enoch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Someone showed it to me.
unidentified		What exactly is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you should go and read the book and then you will know, would be my answer.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graff.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, this is Joe from Jersey.
		I just had a question for Dale.
		If he's ever heard of or seen any evidence towards the fact of the power of suggestion being that you could suggest something to somebody and they would act on that suggestion without actually having to tell them by just thinking or transmitting a thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we were talking about that earlier called remote influencing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, being able to influence somebody else.
unidentified		Right, because I had an experience when I was younger that has never happened again, sort of like your little psychic car incident.
		And I still to this day cannot get it out of my head because it was so real and there were so many suggestions that I had made that it just happened that it couldn't have been coincidence.
		And I was wondering if he had actually gotten any evidence of that thought as well.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's like you said, Art, earlier, we had talked a little bit about this.
		And it is possible, I believe, providing that the suggestion is acceptable by the other people, that this could happen, that you could suggest an action and they would go and do it.
		I've seen examples of this, I believe, in dog training, where sometimes people just think about the command and the dog, the well-trained dog, will respond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've seen that, too.
		That's a whole nother area.
		And I have been a real advocate of, I guess, what I call telepathy with animals, but I think there is no question about it.
		I have three cats.
		I'm a cat person.
		And I absolutely can communicate with my cats.
		I mean, I can go to my cat.
		I've got a wild cat, feral cat.
		And this feral cat, myself, over the last two years since I trapped it, have become very close.
		And I'm telling you right now, I can go up to that cat and I can project irritation and that cat will get up and man it's gone.
		Or I can go up and project pure love and the cat will lie down, start purring by itself, turn over, and give me its belly.
		Now, I can do that.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		In fact, there was an experiment done at the Parapsychology Foundation connected with J.B. Ryan's lab many years ago by Keith Harari, where he was able to influence the movement of a cat and verify through statistical methods.
		This was in a laboratory setting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's one other little thing.
		2020 did an incredible segment, absolutely incredible, an in-depth investigation proving, and I mean proving, with blind tests, they would go to this person's home and they would film the house pet,
		the dog in most cases, and they would have the person start home early, come home early, at a totally random time, and the dog would begin acting in a very, I don't want to say irritated, but anticipatory manner, going to the door, jumping up and down, barking.
		That dog knew when their owner started home.
		They proved that.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And this goes back to what you had mentioned earlier, and we talked about the first sense.
		We're certainly not going to be that held up on ourselves to think that animals don't have some type of sensing of this nature, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but that begins to say something about the nature of animals that would create an awfully large debate, wouldn't it?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Although, again, it depends on how you define this phenomenon.
		If you're talking about it like an extended sense, what is really talking about more, I think, is the idea of interconnectedness.
		The fact that there really may be some kind of consciousness field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A mass consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some kind of a better phrase, collective consciousness.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's on the right track.
		Some kind of field consciousness or quantum consciousness.
		It's something that suggests that consciousness is not all in the brain.
		And there's some type of overlapping feature in the universe that laps over into all creatures, you know, great and small, so to speak.
		Well, I think a very important implication.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I say again, that if you believe that, if you embrace that, and I do, then I think there's a great controversy with regard to our interaction with and treatment of animals.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Yes, yes.
		Now we see as part of our larger whole, not just some disintegrated unit here and there.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
		Hello, where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm from Southern California.
unidentified		My name's Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		I have a question or a couple of questions for Dale.
		I'm very psychic, and I come by it naturally.
		And not too many people know about it, but occasionally when I'll get a premonition, and I dig into it, and I can get a lot of really good details.
		And I've had several occasions where I was able to predict crimes and they happened exactly the way that I said they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Predict crimes.
unidentified		Yes, that somebody's going to get hurt.
		Oh, I see.
		I don't want to get into any of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that is precognition.
unidentified		And so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what is it you're asking?
unidentified		Well, I want to be able to reach my full potential.
		I was thinking about going into the law enforcement field with what I can do because, like the last couple times that I've done it, I was able to get robbers.
		They were apprehended based on the information that I came up with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here would be my advice to you, Dale.
		See if you concur.
		If you were to go to a law enforcement agency and say, I want to go to the police academy and my qualifications are that I can predict when a crime is going to occur, you had better be sure you secure your present job before you try that.
		What do you think, Dale?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because what's going to happen is you're going to end up being a suspect, even if you are correct.
		That's happened.
		There was a case in Los Angeles some years ago where a woman was locked up because she perceived the details of a murder, which turned to be true.
		The best approach, I think, is to keep a good track record and make sure you work with other people so you can verify the results and prepare a track record.
		And when you get the stuff documented, then you might want to contact some other group.
		But it might be best initially for you to have some kind of buffer between you and the police officers until you get comfortable and have confidence in one another.
		So my recommendation is, yeah, proceed, but be very, very cautious and also do other projects, not just the law enforcement type thing.
		Do some simple verification tasks, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes.
		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to speak up good and loud.
unidentified		Okay, good evening, Art.
		Hi, Art.
		And good evening, Mr. Graff.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Andrea and I'm calling from New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Okay.
		I don't have a question for Mr. Graff, but I would like to relate an experience that I had several years ago.
		This experience is in relationship to the theory which Mr. Graff mentioned before on the show about psychic ability having to do with looking back from the future in order to make a prediction in the present time.
		Sure.
		Okay, uh several years ago my husband and I were interested buying a home and uh I went to a local psychic he told me yes we were going to purchase the home and that it would be behind a um garden center.
		Three years down the road we did purchase a home.
		It was not behind a garden center.
		But the day of the closing at the lawyer's office, we were traveling back to our apartment and uh we passed a garden center which she had described in great detail.
		And at that moment I was thinking of her making predictions about buying a home and I think there's some connection where in the past she had seen me in front of her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the same moment in front of the contract.
		I've got you.
		Does that sound right to you, Dale?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I think I understand what was said.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		There's a little faint connection here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well okay she went to a psychic.
		The psychic said you're going to buy a home near a garden center.
		Well a year or two later when she bought the home there was no garden center.
		But while she was on the way to her apartment, I guess before the move, they passed the exact described garden center.
		Now she said, could it be that that psychic was looking at me in the same time frame that I was buying my home and simply missed it a little bit but perceived me seeing that garden center in the future?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like we were saying earlier, the individual perceives the future coming toward him or her.
		I'm sure there's still some probabilities at work here, but things seemed relatively fixed and the prediction then generally came true.
		I can see some connection here, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
		All right, hold on, Dale.
		Dale Graf is my guest.
		He's got another segment to go.
		If you have a question, that's what we're here for.
		All I can say is there's a lot more out there than we understand.
		That you can believe.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		The End
		The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End
		But you can't see Z mend, and I keep laying helt ignorant Ao take care I should see Z mend, and I get a job But you can't do that So long marriage
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love this song and A Secret Place in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you've got to wonder if eventually, as remote viewing or sensing, is developed, whether there will be any more secret places in time.
unidentified		No!
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		At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
		I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
		And I think that's critical.
		And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
		I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dale E. Graff has authored Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
		That's a great title.
		And if you would like it, it is available generally in bookstores around the country.
		And if they don't have it, usually in a bookstore they have the little computers and you just say the title or even the name Dale Graff and they can reference it, look it up, and get it to you post-haste.
		It sounds like a wonderful book.
		All right, Dale, welcome back.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Dale Graff.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		I kind of had a question.
		I'm a little bit late for the subject, but my grandfather was in one of the LSD experimental groups.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, luckily it was after my father was born.
		So I just kind of, the reason why I was calling is because I wondered if you all had, if either of you had any idea why they were experimenting with it.
		In the way that they did, my grandfather described to me, there was a classroom setting with about 15 to 20 people, and they locked him in the room and dosed them all.
		And apparently his supervisor really, really, really wanted to be involved, and his superiors didn't want him to be, but since he was so persistent, they went ahead and gave it.
		So I needed to say he completely freaked out, my grandpa said.
		But he described to me what the other people were doing.
		But I just really, after he told me everything that happened, I wondered why or what was the point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll answer that, and so will Dale.
		The name of the project was MKUltra.
		And what were they trying to do?
		They were trying to learn how to, and if it was possible, to control people.
		Remember, our agencies, intelligence agencies, and military, are in the business of controlling people.
		It's why there was MKUltra.
		It's why there was Stargate.
		It's why there probably are lots of things, if not exactly like these, still going on because they're in the business of control.
		Dale, is that true?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, I disagree with you.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Stargate never had anything to do with controlling people.
unidentified		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but MKUltra.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		Just don't mix Stargate with something like that.
		There's no correlation.
		MKUltra, I know a little bit about.
		I'm not sure if that was the ultimate purpose, but it might be.
		And that was, when, back in the 60s?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That certainly would have been.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		But remember back then, too, there was so much uncertainty about what these effects of these drugs were before they were clamped down on.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Remember Tim Leary and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So there was a lot of naivety going on.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So a lot of that might have been just exploratory without knowing what the purpose was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, let me run this by you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have touched briefly this morning on remote influencing.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, I don't call that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
		I'm with you all the way.
		This is a sort of a speculative question.
		Okay, right, guys.
		If remote influencing was possible, you and I both know damn well they would be doing it or trying to do it.
		And when I say they, I mean the DIA, the CIA, the alphabet agencies, somebody, if this was possible, they would be trying to do it.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I would have my doubts.
		There's so much going on right now with human use and all that.
		You know, again, even without my opinion, I think the remote influencing potential of adversely affecting someone, whether it's friend or foe, is just such a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, but that was not the spirit of the question.
		The spirit of the question was, make the assumption that remote influencing, even on the negative side, is possible.
		If that were so, our intelligence agencies surely would pursue it.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it would be such a huge step from a few statistical deviations of what's been found in the laboratory to does this thing really lead to something practical, which I really doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, but my question assumed that it was practical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then asks about the, I suppose, the ethics of intelligence agencies.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't speak to that.
		I just don't think anyone would really sit down and purposely do that type of thing using mental techniques.
		Just an opinion I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and that's today's intelligence agencies versus...
		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Okay, I wanted to make a comment that one type of remote influencing would be like prayer, and to technical, it would be like radionics.
unidentified		And then also, another form of remote influencing, which seems like the exotic type, would be like dreamscaping, entering into someone's dreams.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		But in a dream thing, that's usually an agreed-upon situation.
		So it's like a consent.
		You're into the dream, or another way of looking at it is this.
		There's an intent for a dream image.
		Somebody has an image in mind that wants the other person to dream about.
		And I have examples of this in Traction in the Wilderness, by the way.
		Okay.
		So it's an agreed-upon thing.
		So the dreamer may have perceived through his own psi abilities, his own natural ESP abilities, what the intended objective is and simply incorporate it into the dream of his own.
		So there's a question of where is it coming from?
		Is it being added in by the dreamer through his own solubility, or is it being inserted by another person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, because once the permission has been granted, there is the conscious...
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Once the permission is granted, then it becomes a mutual type of thing.
		And I've seen many, many examples of co-dreams.
		In fact, there's been some research done on that, where people have identical dreams, and these can be sought.
		It can be very beneficial.
		So, yeah, I don't call that remote influencing.
		In a sense, it is, but it's an agreed-upon type of situation.
		It's like just going to a party together, in a way.
		So I can see that.
		That's a possible thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		In order to have it negative, that takes us into another area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Grass.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi there.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Fine.
unidentified		Mike from Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've got about two questions for him.
		About three questions.
		The first one is, does he see past the bloom and doom of the 2004 as the other ones do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, no, I'm willing to ask that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without mentioning names, Dale, there are remote viewers, more than one I might add, that perceive there to be some sort of block, some sort of discontinuity, they call it, outaways around 2002 or 2000 something or another, past which they cannot see.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I don't know what to make of that.
		I think we need to know, like I said earlier, what the perception of the people doing the projects are.
		It may be that one of them has a very strong opinion that there's going to be some catastrophe and that all the others are picking up the same thought.
		So again, I would say for anything that has to do with gloom and doom or any kind of forecast, even if it's peaches and cream, you need to look at a variety of sources, not just people, a few people here and there, remote viewers or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		My next question is, can you hurt somebody or kill somebody through a thought?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this one we've covered half dozen times already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remote influencing may be possible, but Dale does not believe that that kind of negative action is possible.
unidentified		I had one experience that happened.
		I had a step-grandmother I didn't agree with, and we had really had it out, and for like four weeks, I mean, she was a healthy woman, too, and she was pretty wealthy, so she was in good shape.
		And I had really thought like this, real bad thoughts for a long time that something would happen to her.
		Well, anyway, within about a month later, she died of a brain aneurysm, and I felt like it was my fault.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, another way of looking at it, you just might have picked up in a kind of a pre-cognitive style mode of what was actually on its way.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Because usually when you have those kinds of medical situations, there's a predisposition in that direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that or you killed her.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think that, you know, that puts a guilt rip on people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's possible really.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		The culture is you may buy into this system and it can happen, but then it's a cultural acceptance thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, voodoo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Voodoo simply requires that the person that you are trying to affect believes that you can do that, and once they do, you got them.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I think there's a lot to be said by that name.
		I'm sure not in everyone in that culture, but perhaps to those that are particularly prone to that negative kind of image.
		Yeah, that might happen there, but I think it's a cultural overlay that really drives even the remote possibility of that kind of thing happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But caller, to make you feel better, this is probably the world's expert on all of this, and you didn't kill her.
unidentified		Okay, and this last question is, you talked about it, too, about animals having the, you know, the remote viewing thing.
unidentified		They did a thing on Animal Planet, and, you know, it's a station called Animal Planet, and they showed a scientific study, and this dog, this woman came at three different times, and this dog was at the front door every time waiting up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, we covered that earlier.
		I know.
		We could do and will do programs on that.
		Believe me, we will.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graff.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, Art and Del.
		This is Brett from Santa Cruz, California.
		Yes, sir.
		I have a lot of things I would like to ask about synchronicity, a lot of other questions.
		I will narrow it down to one question for time's sake.
		Del, my question is, to what extent would you say remote viewing owes its origin to the teachings of Dr. Jung?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about synchronicity?
		You said remote viewing.
		Right.
		I don't think there's any connection with the remote viewing in Jung.
		The indirect connection, because Jung became very interested in side effects.
		He became very interested in the ESP research at Duke University in the early 30s.
		So he had a suspicion that there was a connection.
unidentified		I see, but with remote viewing itself, there's no direct connection with CGL.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		No, not that term and not with Jung.
		If you want to take this into a more basic psy link up, yeah, there is a connection, but I'm going back in history here.
		Remote viewing came much later, the term.
		I see.
		There's a generic connection, but Jung didn't start that one off.
unidentified		Okay, well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much for the call, and take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first time, caller line, you're on the air with Dale Graphenart Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Ontario, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ontario.
unidentified		All right.
		I wanted to talk about...
		One thing I was going to say before, I've recently gone online and noticed that my what you call PSI ability has heightened.
		And I wonder if it's a protective device.
		But what I wanted to ask Dale about was I'm having images come to me when I relax.
		And I'm not trying for it, and I don't know these people, and they're so clear, like looking at a picture, but it's in your mind.
		And I wonder, is there some way you can block it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is a good question.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		That's a very good question.
		And in fact, when I do my workshops, which is described in my webpage, and it's sort of an integrated general approach, looking at a variety of side topics, not only remote viewing, looking more where people naturally resonate.
		But that's one of the things we discuss, the pace.
		And if people spontaneously have these experiences and are troubled by them, then I would suggest that you go through visualizations or intention exercises to not have them.
		Also, having exercise and balance and being grounded, as some people would say, is also helpful.
		But simply intending these things not to occur, many times will take care of these situations.
		If they prevail, then you might have to deal with someone that's familiar with working in this area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She said something else that prompts the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She said, you know, I've been noticing more since I've been on the Internet.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's an important question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the Internet kind of like a real-world collective consciousness, and might it affect the larger collective consciousness eventually?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm certainly the last one to say no to that.
		It's a very good point, Art.
		There's another way of looking at it, too.
		Being on the Internet, being in front of the computer screen, you're giving your visual apparatus a huge dose of mental imagery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		So this ranges all the way from the mundane after image all the way to stirring up memories, you know, either from the internet or elsewhere.
		So you're exercising your visual image apparatus.
		And that might be the thing that's really stirring you up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael Crichton, the author, wrote something that has always fascinated me.
		He said that it may well be that the internet is not a good thing because eventually it will stifle entrepreneurism, it will stifle original thought, and eventually we'll get to the point where, whether you're in Tokyo or Bangkok or Cape Town or New York, there are going to be the top 10 ideas.
		In other words, it'll actually stifle us.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can understand that.
		And maybe that can happen if we let the Internet or other activities become totally dominant in our life.
		And even television, for example, you need breaks from this stuff.
		You need to go back to your own basic perceptions, your own basic mentality.
		If you do nothing but sit in front of the internet, and many people do that, I can see where Kristen's concern is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have had a wonderful four hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been four hours day.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Are you getting four hours?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's been four hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've been at this, right?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I'm just waking up, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to warn you, when you go on ABC's Good Morning America this coming Tuesday, March 10th, you will not have four hours.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm worried about that.
		Exactly.
		You've got to do it in sound bites or it doesn't get done.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		East of the Rockies, without much time, you're on the air with Dale Graff and Art Bell.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, I want to comment about MKUltra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly.
unidentified		First, I see I've probably eaten acid about 200 times the last couple, three years.
		But I thought MK Ultra was about trying to have war without bloodshed.
		But I'm just wondering if you ever tried LSD.
		I've had it where I've had amazing movies in my mind and just amazing things.
		I think it's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course it is.
		It is amazing.
		It's a very dark area indeed, and I really have no comment on it.
		How about you, Dale?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what was the thing that caused that?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I missed that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think he said he dropped acid 200 times or something.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could certainly weaken the neural connections and loosen up the picture-making apparatus as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or to be fair, it could make neural connections that otherwise weren't made.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		That's another way of doing it.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		We remove the inhibitors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, who knows?
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a pretty dark area, Dale.
unidentified		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really has been a pleasure.
		Listen, everybody, the book is Attracts in the Psychic Wilderness.
		Go to your bookstore, ask for it.
		The author is Dale Graff, and what a pleasure.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		And the book can also be ordered through the webpage and through Deanna's bookhouse on the webpage, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		and we will keep the uh...
		link up on the website uh...
		the by all means he's Great.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		I have to thank Deanna for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A great webmistress.
		Sure is.
		Thank you, my friends.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Hey, I enjoyed it, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
dale graff ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's it, folks.
		We are oot of time.
		Now, tomorrow night and the next night, we've got wingdingers for you.
		You don't want to miss them.
		I'm Art Bell from the high, thankfully dry desert.
		This is Coast to Coast End.

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