Dale Graff, Operation Stargate’s architect, reveals the Pentagon’s 1972–1980s psi research—renamed by him in 1989—used blind, randomized targets to validate remote viewing despite skepticism from leadership. While China and Russia likely continue such programs, Graff dismisses claims of precise future prediction or remote influencing as unreliable, citing personal bias and quantum field theories instead. His book Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness explores intuition’s role, framing it as an ancient "first sense" of interconnectedness. Ethical concerns linger: even if possible, intelligence agencies wouldn’t exploit it, Graff insists, leaving precognition’s practicality—and media’s selective coverage—unresolved. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or a good morning as the case may be, wherever you are, and that is many, many places, actually, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out west to Caribbean eastward, U.S. Virgin Islands, morning in St. Thomas, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
Well, well, well.
Let me tell you what's coming up.
Tonight, in about an hour, the man who coined, actually coined the name Operation Stargate, the government's official remote viewing program, Dale Graf, is going to be my guest.
And he'll come and talk to us about remote viewing.
He is, in fact, a remote viewer and was an administrator for remote viewers.
And so we'll get yet another angle on remote viewing.
It's absolutely a fascinating thing.
It always has been to me.
Tomorrow night, we are going to have a very, very interesting guest.
Now, he just wrote a book called Hollywood versus the Aliens.
Now, the motion picture industry's participation in UFO disinformation.
And the motion picture industry certainly has done an awful lot on UFOs and aliens and all the rest of it animate.
And then Friday night, Saturday morning, Dr. Robert White.
Dr. White is the man, the surgeon, who removed monkeys' heads and put them on other bodies.
Now, when I talked to him earlier today, Dr. White had another name for it.
I think he called it a body transplant, but I think the net effect was that one monkey had went, you know, from one monkey to another.
He is also a medical ethicist and a very, very interesting fellow.
So that'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
I've been trying to get him on, as you probably know, for some time now.
I'm looking forward to that program.
Now, listen to me.
Last night, during, in fact, during the program, while the program was actually going on, and all day today, I continued to work on my studio cams until I got them right.
And I finally have them right.
Remember, I have told you previously that I am a little berserk about this kind of thing.
And until I get something working just the way I want it to work, I will either, one of two things will happen.
I will either break what I am working on or fix it.
Now, my odds have been getting better in recent years of fixing versus breaking, but I generally take it to that extreme.
So I have my webcams working, and I really want your comments on them.
Last night, of course, they were working in and out, and I didn't have them all set right, and I didn't have white balances set up the way I wanted.
This is something that, if you have a computer, allows you to see the program in progress.
About every minute or so, 45 seconds, whatever it is, a new shot is taken from one of three cameras in here and then streamed up to the net where it is disseminated worldwide.
Along, I might add, with my show.
You can get audio of my show.
As a matter of fact, people with good computers can sit there and watch me and listen to the show on their computer at the same time.
I'm not sure I approve of all this, mind you, or I think it's a good thing, but it sure is fun, and it sure is cutting-edge technology.
So anyway, I labored long and hard to get these studio cams the way they are now, and I hope they look okay to you anyway.
I certainly am soliciting comments.
So if you can, go to my website, www.artbell.com.
That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L.com.
And scroll down to the bottom.
You'll see Studio Webcam.
Click on that and watch it for a little while and watch the cameras sequence through and let me know how you think they do.
I think at the moment we have one of the best webcams on the web anywhere, period.
He says modestly.
Man, I really worked hard on it.
As I said, I worked right through the program last night.
That was an interesting program, wasn't it?
It just shows to go you how I seemingly love remaining out on a limb, slowly sawing myself into oblivion.
But it was fun.
Now, obviously, I didn't buy into a lot of what C.L. Turnich had to say.
But you've got to admit, she had zest.
And there was something about her zest and her love of what she was saying and doing that just drove me to keep her on.
And we had a lot of fun.
As the program went on, it got more and more interesting.
is a ball of fire.
Oh, incidentally, we're also working...
And that is for the hearing impaired, a scrolling text of what's being said on the show.
Now, I would like to talk to somebody at CNN because CNN, both the main CNN and CNN headline news, are using some kind of scrolling text, a closed caption, and I don't think it's somebody typing in, I'm not sure, but the kind of errors that you see imply to me that it is not being typed in.
And I've got some voice recognition software that might work.
And anybody else out there with ideas, by all means, get them to me or get them to my webmaster.
You can send a Keith email up on the website.
I am really intrigued with the idea of having a streaming, even if it doesn't get it exactly right.
I can see there could be some terrible errors.
Instead of clouds on the moon, it could read cows on the moon.
Nevertheless, getting streaming text up there on the website, it seems to me to be a really good idea.
And I think it would be neat anyway.
So let us pursue that idea.
If anybody out there, I know CNN must have some sort of technology.
And I will try mine.
And if you have something up your sleeve, then let us know.
We like being innovators, and that certainly would be an innovation.
unidentified
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At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and vlog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
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Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
They want to get them out of Americans' hands.
In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
We don't need this.
We don't need that.
So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
Puerto Rico is about to have another opportunity to become a state.
The 51st state.
Now, if I recall correctly, it was not that long ago that they voted down that golden opportunity.
And now I think that I may be heard in Puerto Rico.
If not, I know it's coming up soon.
And I wonder how Puerto Ricans feel about this.
I guess I could ask all of you, how do you feel about it?
If you were now not a state and you had an opportunity to vote to be a state or not to be a state, how would you vote?
That is a really interesting question.
I mean, there are states that look to possibly secede.
Hawaii?
Alaska?
Texas.
Oh, I've got a lot of news on Texas, and none of it's any good at all.
Supreme Court says sexual harassment at work can be between members of the same sex.
And this story comes from a fellow who was out on an oil rig with three other guys and was threatened with rape and all kinds of other things.
And I think the court has ruled properly, of course.
Sexual harassment is sexual harassment is sexual harassment, right?
Now, listen to me very carefully When I tell you that there is something very very bad going on in Texas and not just Texas but all across the country right now I have received literally hundreds of faxes in email from people about this flesh-eating bacteria
our KTRH just here in Houston reported at 3.03 a.m. yesterday morning that five more deaths have been attributed to the flesh-eating bacteria, five deaths today.
Why doesn't this get more coverage?
And tonight I am asking precisely the same question.
I think it was two or three days ago that I did about an hour toward the end of the program very tentatively because I was getting so many faxes, so many emails saying, Art, this flesh-eating bacteria is here, meaning Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma, Connecticut.
And you may recall that it scared the, you know, what out of everybody not too long ago.
And then the medics, the doctors, the scientists came on and said, oh no, it's been with us forever, which I'm sure is true of strep.
Not this particular variety.
And that is, for some reason, it is converting into this thing that literally eats you alive.
Here's another one.
89 cases of strep in Texas.
A run for your lives.
That's what the person who sent me the story wrote at the top.
Actually, it's a Reuters story.
A bacteria that in some forms eats flesh has now killed 18 people in Texas in the past three months, according to the Texas Department of Health.
It said 89 cases of Group A streptococcus had been reported in that state since December 1st.
Here's another one.
RI have the latest figures on the Strep A outbreak in Texas.
Count is now 89, 18 dead.
The latest, a five-year-old boy in Houston.
Now Houston is trying to reassure parents.
They really don't have that much to worry about.
I've not heard the latest news of the Leander near Austin child that has been diagnosed now with the SPREP A. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.
I won't even bother to read all of them to you.
I've got so many.
And my question, I guess, there's two.
One, why are we not receiving this as a major national news story from the major networks?
Two, if the CDC is involved, which it would appear they are according to the calls I've been getting and email, that should make it a national story.
Why would a bacteria that lives in many of us, a pretty good percentage of us, suddenly turn against us in such a horrendous manner?
And having turned against us, why are we not hearing about it in the media?
Now again, the scientists who came on the air after the last big outbreak, oh, it's no big deal.
It is very rare.
We are not having more cases.
Remember that?
They said, we're not having more cases than usual.
It's just the media is reporting them.
I don't believe that for a second.
I wonder if you do.
If you had been in receipt of the number of facts as I had, you would be screeching the way I am right now about it.
Here's another gem.
Federal germ detectives say they have come up against now a rare super strain of tuberculosis that spread with alarming ease through two rural counties in Tennessee and Kentucky from 1994 to 6.
It struck 21 people.
In the eight previous years, each of the two counties had recorded fewer than one case of TB in the total population of about 14,000.
So I would say that the little things are beginning to turn against us.
Why do you suppose that is occurring?
Many of them are not new.
It's like pisteria in North Carolina in the estuaries, spread now into the ocean.
It's not new.
Phisteria was an organism, half animal, half plant, that sort of was always there at the bottom of the estuaries.
And only when a certain level and certain type of pollution reached them did they activate and begin killing fish, bloody soars, all that sort of thing, attacking people.
And now, this story that is being very, very under-reported, and I'm being kind here, this flesh-eating bacteria outbreak of this, what do you suppose is turning, why are the things that have always been here?
And STREP A, you know, it's with us.
But now it's turning on us.
What have we done to bring STREPA alive?
I use that term, of course, tentatively.
But what have we done to bring this thing alive?
And by the way, for the conspiratorial-minded out there, this late word from Dan in Lexington, Kentucky, Art, did you realize that today, March 5th, is a rather special day?
There are now 666 days left before the year 2000.
Well, it's March 5th in some time zones out there.
And somebody else out there might try and confirm what Dan says is true.
That number, it just keeps popping up, doesn't it?
All right, we're going to go to Open Lines in the first hour.
And again, look here, go check out my studio cams.
I worked hard on these suckers, and I think I've got them about right.
See what you think.
And it got done at about 4 o'clock this afternoon.
That's how long it took.
And I just kept batting my head against the wall until finally, which occasionally does occur, the wall actually moved.
And I think I've got it, but you can tell me that.
Take a look at the website and see what you think.
It's www.artbell.com.
And if anybody out there has any thoughts on why these little things that previously were not active like this flesh-eating bacteria now are, I'd like to hear from you.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Thank you.
When you first paid my way, I said no one could take your way.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of call and email, hundreds of them, I'm telling you.
And facts is that I'm getting.
This is a big story, and somebody out there is intentionally ignoring it, not me.
Something has happened.
And no doubt, if they do begin running the story in the next few days, they're going to bring in some scientists who are going to say, well, we've always had this round, and these numbers really are not out of line with what we've seen in previous years.
Yes, they are.
Way out of line.
So this is a big Story and I'm going to follow it very closely.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air, top of the morning.
So we did, I don't know, a couple hours with Stephen at least, and he's fascinating.
I mean, he's an average guy, but he really claims, and he gives examples of people who have traveled in time with his machine.
And you don't run into this very frequently.
So my question to you is, if it works, where are you first going to try to go?
unidentified
Well, you know, I actually have thoughts of wanting to travel dimensionally.
In other words, travel to a higher dimension versus traveling to another time.
Because he claims that you can use it for that as well.
Okay.
In other words, we're supposedly in the third dimension, and I'd like to travel to the fourth or the fifth dimension, which supposedly exists right here now.
We just can't see it.
We can't feel it because it's like a different channel.
Actually, the results of that test showed that a very high percentage of those exposed simply died.
unidentified
The few that lived mutated.
Yeah, well, another thing, another thing that's very interesting is the way the UVB is indexed.
Like, instead of giving us the milliwatts per meter reading, now that's the number we need, instead of giving us that, they play all these games to justify their jobs.
Like in Canada, the machine would cost less than $200, first of all, to measure milliwatts per meter.
Instead, here in Canada, they're done in only two cities, Montreal and in Toronto.
And they do the readings for the whole country.
And they're not even based on any local daily readings.
Don't start me on that because there's no reasonable current free energy device that you can go out and get until there is.
unidentified
Oh, we have, there's buses in Vancouver, there's buses in China, they run just on hydrogen.
But one other thing about the frogs, though, the frogs that are devastated the first, the first ones that go extinct, are the ones that have the least amount of photoase.
And photoase is an enzyme that protects the DNA from the radiation.
And when you have the mutations happening with the radiation, the enzyme goes in there and corrects it.
Now, the smaller amount of that enzyme you have, the more mutated you as a species will become.
If one saw the Andromeda strain, one has some idea of the testing facility that was maintained at Dugway.
What you were not told with regard to the death of those sheep was that they died of a strain of botulism which had become capable of being spread by an aerosol.
Since that time, we have had the introduction of perhaps five or six what were common bacterium which have now become fatal bacterium.
Including this new flesh-eating flesh-eating strepe A, a disease called Staphylococcus I42.
You're on a line where you're paying for the call.
I am going to give you a choice of holding you over and letting you pay for it, or I am going to come onto the line during the break and get your phone number and call you back so I'm paying for the call, but I want to hear more.
Or you can call at a future time.
That's A, B, or C. Which do you prefer?
unidentified
Well, I'm going to have to call you back at a future time.
We're talking about frustrating electronic projects, and Alan Corbett, that is my boss and myself, have a very similar electronic background.
And he reminded me of old agony.
Those of you in electronics know, in years past, not modern televisions, on top of the line protons or Sonys or whatever.
But the older TVs, when I was young, I fancied myself as, you know, I could repair anything or break it.
Then my average was about 60-40.
40% of the time I'd fix it.
Reminded me of converging TVs.
Any of you in electronics will recall the old days.
It was Project Impossible.
Televisions in that day really never did converge, for those of you who know what that is.
That means that everything hitting the front of the tube is hitting it as it should, and the colors look just right.
Well, they never converged, and you used to have sort of green around either the left or right-hand side or above or below objects.
And it was an eternal challenge.
It's like Rubik's Cube, in a way, trying to get a TV to converge in the old days.
It couldn't be done.
But I would spend hours and hours and hours trying.
And I received several incredibly, and that may account for my present behavior, incredibly large shocks from televisions.
Really don't know why I'm still alive.
Forecasters failed to predict one element of the weather yesterday in Croydon, wherever that is.
It rained frogs.
True story, folks.
The strange event was included during a report by Suzanne Carlton at the BBC Weather Center, that's CENTRE, after a distraught woman rang the meteorological weather office at Bracknell at breakfast time to say that dead frogs were falling from the sky and covering her garden and the entire immediate neighborhood.
Staff at the inquiry desk had thought the call was a hoax until the woman's attitude made them take her seriously.
The National Forecaster there said, quote, you do get reports of things getting sucked up by water spouts, which are rotating columns of water or tornadoes that have to go over a lake or something with a lot of frogs on it.
Well, I don't know if I believe that or not, and I certainly don't believe the current reports or lack of reports, I guess I ought to say, with regard to the flesh-eating bacteria.
unidentified
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Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
Not just assault weapons, but pure guns and want to get them out of America's hands.
In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
We don't need this.
We don't need that.
So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
Well, let me tell you now a little bit about Dale Graff.
We're about to talk about remote viewing.
It is a fascinating topic.
And when they sent the literature on Dale Graff, it read about like this.
Former director of government's Stargate program speaks out.
For 17 years, Dale Graff was the leading researcher and expert in the Defense Department in the area of parapsychological phenomenon, ESP, remote viewing.
He founded and served as the director of the controversial and secret Stargate program, which received federal funding to investigate and use remote viewing to gather intelligence information.
You tonight, how his expertise in parapsychological phenomena led to a formation of what we now know to be Stargate.
How the U.S. used psychics to gather information and intel.
He's been in all kinds of alphabet agencies.
We'll roll through that in a minute.
He, Dale Graff, was interviewed on the Nightline program in 1995 when all of this was broken publicly.
As a matter of fact, they did a full program on Stargate, and Dale was one of those on Nightline.
I talked to Dale, I think, about a year ago, and he was not ready to come forward at that time.
Here from, if I recall correctly, the state of Maryland is Dale Graf.
So I've only ever been in the Department of Defense.
The program that originally initiated remote viewing research at the Stanford Research Institute in 1972 was initially sponsored by the CIA, but they bowed out about a year and a half after that.
So the primary responsibilities for keeping the remote viewing research alive, and then later on, when an independent group came in within government to help set up the in-house remote viewing group at the Army area in Fort Bean, Maryland, that was also DOD.
My understanding, and I've had some long discussions with the principal researchers there, Dr. Harold Putoff particularly, that this was politically driven because the original funding that was covering the early exploratory work in remote viewing research was in some group that did a lot of other unusual activities, and that whole area was canceled.
So that was one of the main reasons.
It was part of an area that was simply demolished at the time, so to speak.
So they lost their funding through that.
And I'm sure there were probably other reasons, too.
When I eventually became the chief or the director of the Stargate unit in 1989 thereabouts, until I retired in 1993, when I first took over the area, I renamed it.
And of course, this was fairly standard when you change responsibilities to change names.
In fact, it's almost automatic that you do this on any project.
I coined the name Stargate.
Now, we had a group meeting on this, and there were a number of names considered, but none made any sense.
I wanted to have a name that had a ring to it, that had some symbolism to it.
It was kind of a compromise, but I came up finally with the name Stargate because I felt it symbolized an innovative project for reaching beyond the horizon of human potential.
I interview a lot of very interesting people among them.
Dr. Michio Kaku, one of the leading theoretical physicists in the country, and he believes that an actual Stargate is possible, that one could actually be built.
Now, there are many ways of reaching out across the stars.
I have interviewed many, many remote viewers who were in your program.
Many of them, Dale, and I'm probably jumping way ahead here, and I am jumping way ahead, indicate to me that they have met all sorts of unexplainable entities that one might characterize in all sorts of ways while remote viewing.
All right, well, the whole idea, as I understood it, of remote viewing, was that a remote viewer separates himself, is trained to separate himself from his own imagination.
Again, let me talk about a basic remote viewing protocol, which basically came out of the laboratory work at the Stanford Research Institute in the early 1970s.
There was nothing really unusual about it.
In fact, this is what I'm trying to do in my book, Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
I'm trying to show that this phenomenon is a very natural kind of capability that we all have.
There are protocols that one follows when one is doing remote viewing or any other form of SI investigation, whatever name you want to call it.
You have to have some kind of procedure or protocol.
You may fool yourself.
You don't know what you're getting.
So in that sense, it's disciplined, yes.
And as I was saying earlier, remote viewing, in my view, in my estimation, is a part of a larger or umbrella term like psi.
It's kind of related to extra sensory perception, which is an older term.
Now, anytime, anybody want to do research or practical applications using this phenomenon, you have to follow some kind of procedure or you may not know exactly what you're getting.
So I agree, there is a need for protocol and making sure that you're not being influenced unduly by second guessing or somebody's expectation.
The initial protocol is fairly standard for how you do any parapsychological experiment.
You know, there's the need to make sure the, if you're doing experiments, you have to have some kind of target pool, something you can draw from that's homogeneous, it can't be second-guessed, randomized, nobody knows about it.
So it's blind, a double-blind kind of situation.
So then that's part of the procedure.
Then the strategies that people use can vary.
And this is, I think, what people are quibbling over right now.
People that have been formerly on the project have certain approaches, call them strategies.
But there's a protocol there, too.
Now, the early protocol was fairly simple, the one used by the researchers at Stanford University.
The strategies were left pretty much to the individual's discretion.
But the scientific protocols were the same.
And those are the ones that should be the same no matter who is doing this.
But the strategies vary.
And I think this is where we're running into some differences in viewpoint from the former remote viewer.
And I've noticed this with different people that have even been in the laboratory situation, not just simply people that were on the remote viewing project in government.
I think there's a lot of personal ego involved.
I think it's like not invented here.
We see that all over in ordinary research, too, not just this area.
You get a certain personal commitment to a procedure and it works for you, and by damn, it's got to work for everybody else.
He was a guest on Nightline when they finally blew the whole thing public.
That in, in fact, our government, over a period of 20 years, I think it was, the CIA, Department of Defense, and many others had been dabbling with PSI, the ability to remotely view things and people and events and possibly even view through time.
They really never covered that part of it on an eyeline, but we'll talk about it in a moment.
And we'll get the history of remote viewing.
know it's new to a lot of you.
unidentified
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At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
All right, once again, here is the man who coined the term Stargate, Operation Stargate, the man who was on Nightline when all of this was...
I'm really, really interested in how it came public.
But right now, Dale Graff, who's almost going to have to yell at us because we don't have a great connection, Dale, you'll have to stay good and close to the phone.
Give us a little bit of history of remote viewing.
Well, only in the sense that now that you've said that, I've got to understand the protocols.
Now, you take somebody, anybody, because you say everybody equally, and I don't know if I believe that or not, Dale, that everybody equally could be a remote viewer.
Others have said that to me, but surely, Dale, there must be some that psychologically and mentally with regard to PSI ability are better than others naturally.
At some point, there has to be a transference from the person who decided what the target, the radar base in Siberia, was going to be, and the guy sitting there actually doing the remote viewing.
Yeah, there actually has to be some form, in my way of thinking, of telepathy occurring between the person who is deciding what the target is and the remote viewer.
There has got to be some connection to that number, some connection, or how is all of this happening?
That's one part I just don't get, and I guess you don't either.
Here it may be that anyone with this side talent or remote viewing talent, whatever you want to call it, is accessing some holographic-type record, and it's not going back in time.
It's just finding a place somewhere that has this recorded information.
Well, if we're talking about a future or an event distant geographically but in our current timeline, Right.
If I understood you correctly, you said the remote viewer is somehow able to read or, through the PSI talent, actually report what he will know in the future.
I just see it as you're sitting here now, and somehow subconsciously your subconscious mind has rattled off all the probabilities that are coming your way in the future, and this is the one that's pumping out at that moment.
But you probably couldn't remote view with a computer.
So there's some difference between a computer, which is great at running through probabilities, and a human being, which seems to be required for remote viewing.
If you could, for example, leap ahead and understand your knowledge of your own investments in the stock market two years or five years from now, you'd really be on to something, wouldn't you?
Again, this gets into the probability thing, because when you're going into something like that, which has a huge amount of other interactions, almost an infinite amount of other decisions are going on in that time frame.
I would say, if you do come up with a perception of what a particular stock might be five years from now, I would give it a low probability of occurrence.
There are too many other things going along that would affect potentially that outcome.
It's a possible future, but I would say it's not a probable one.
So here I go, back to my probability way of looking at things.
In fact, I think this is exactly what happens in most of the so-called precognitive statements that you read about from time to time in a paper, or any time people try to perceive very far ahead in time.
Things don't work very well.
Once in a while, you'll come into something that's very mind-blowing, but without a chance, guess or not, you don't know.
But I'm saying I don't see an awful lot of evidence for accurate stuff beyond some near-term field that we have.
I'm just not comfortable with anything beyond a few weeks at a time.
Well, there were people that did that, but early on we had some very encouraging people in the chain of command at various levels that thought we were not out of our mind, but that we were ahead of time, more or less.
But we were looked at as sort of an innovative, creative group.
But that was because the mindset and the attitudes of the early managers in our chain of command were very innovative.
They were very futuristic in a sense.
Later on, when there were a number of people that came on board at higher management levels that really did not have any comfort level with this field at all, and this is one of the reasons.
There were others, but this is one of the reasons that the group had to take a low profile.
In fact, one of our military commanders even asked us not to do anything for one whole year for a while.
from higher management yeah I assume eventually as you got commanders it was probably regarded by the commanders who got the assignment as a career ender or at least a career start.
And I'm pretty sure this is what drove, what was really behind the motivation of one of the main military commanders that had his biggest say in closing the program.
I think it had to do more with that more than anything else.
And that the argument that the activity didn't yield any useful application results, I think, was just a cover for that overall mentality.
And early on, had the review, if the review that was done in 1995 actually gone back and interviewed the people that had good success and looked at some of the records from the 1980s and that early timeframe, I don't see how they could have made a statement that there was no evidence for its feasibility or utility because there was stuff there that was really clearly quite good.
That's one of the reasons I wrote Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness and that's to make sure that other people that want to take a look at this make sure that they do keep it grounding.
And in fact when I first became involved in this in 1976, early 1976 I really had strong doubts that there was anything at all valid going on in this thing called remote viewing or any form of psych.
He coined the term Stargates, Operation Stargates.
And we're going to ask him about how all of this got public shortly.
There was a program, a Nightline show, devoted entirely to this subject.
The ability to see at a great distance or even through time objects, people, things, impressions.
It's a kind of a sensing.
It's PSI.
It's whatever you want to call it.
But whatever it is, it does work.
And I don't know if you call him the father of remote viewing, Ingo Swan, who you would really call the father of remote viewing.
But here's the guy who coined the term and was on Nightline.
And I'm going to ask him about it.
I'm really, really curious how something like this suddenly gets made public and how Nightline grabs it and does a whole show on it.
I'm really curious about that.
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At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
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Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
Not just assault weapons, but pure guns and want to get them out of Americans' hands.
In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
We don't need this.
We don't need that.
So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
Well, after that report that the CIA had chartered to take a look at the area was completed, and that was done by an independent research group, the American Institute's Research.
And when that was completed, it was actually completed at the unclassified level.
There was no classification on that.
And somehow a report, I shouldn't say somehow, after all, you know, this is Washington, D.C., somehow a report got passed around to the various media.
Oh, I think there's quite a few box fulls of data that still have some high classified labels on it.
And that, I'm sure, has to do with places and people and that type of thing.
I would never talk about stuff like that.
But I can certainly talk about those things that already have been kicked around and some of the open research that we did over the years starting from the early 70s.
We made every effort possible to get a lot of that released as we went along into the open research.
I'm going to ask you something that I ask every remote viewer I have interviewed.
And I've interviewed, I would guess, about a half dozen now of some of the biggies.
So here it comes, Dale.
If remote viewing really worked, which you affirm that it really works.
At times, yes.
Even at times.
It would be a tool that our Defense Department or somebody in one of the alphabet agencies would absolutely consider to be indispensable.
That's the word I would think of.
Indispensable.
And now, while they say all has officially ended, I don't believe it.
And isn't there every reason to be suspicious that at some level that we're not hearing about, just like we didn't hear about this program until Nightline, that something like this with a different name maybe is going on covertly?
But after knowing and being through the mill like I've been through, I would say it's highly unlikely that something similar to Stargate is actually being done at an official level.
Now, I think because of the Stargate activities and all the publicity, that a lot of people within government has got new interest in this.
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if at an independent, private level, people aren't looking into this.
But I think it's unofficial.
And I'm pretty sure that there are a number of people that would be very interested.
And like you said, it is a useful tool.
You don't ever want to use this kind of stuff alone.
And when you get right down to it, Art, many people already do use their intuitive remote viewing abilities in ordinary work.
Talk about PIs and people that require this kind of basic talent.
And I've seen a lot of instances after the fact where a PI photo interpreter came up with something that nobody could figure out how he came with that, only to be later verified, and he couldn't even know.
He or she couldn't even know how he came up with it.
So I think there was a little bit more than subtle intuition going on here.
And this is why I think one of the accomplishments of Stargate, as well as the worldwide research, which goes back into 1882 when it first started in London, England, in this phenomenon, this related phenomenon, I think one of the contributions we made is to call attention to this innate capability that we all have and to inspire others to take a look to see what they can do themselves.
And this is why I like to build it up from intuition.
That's a very comfortable word that people are used to.
And in my workshops, I use it a lot.
And I even say phenomenon like remote viewing or telepathy or whatever you want to call some of these forms of presenting it is a way of making intuition specific.
And this is where some of the people that are being very open about this are really misleading the public.
Now, the reason I'm saying that is because, as you well know, in any government organization since the late 70s, there are some very, very strict human use review requirements.
You've got to really go through the hoops.
And we had to do that every year, show exactly what we were doing, what the people were subjected to, the types of projects.
And I'm talking about across the board for anything that involved any question of human use that might be subject to this, any stress, anything of that nature.
Early on, it was somewhat systematic in the sense that a certain Army group that passed out some questionnaires and used some kind of test procedure narrowed down possibilities.
And these people were then put through tests.
So there was a formal approach, a relatively formal approach at that time.
And again, I'm talking about the in-house, the Stargate and its earlier counterparts.
Yeah, once they were identified, then the test that went through were the protocols, here I use that word, the procedures that were generally in use at that time at the Stanford Research Institute.
So put them through the test to make sure that there was nothing that we were misleading or anything of that nature.
And those that did well then moved forward.
Now there were other ways of finding people, too.
And some of them we identified from the records.
Others that they had an interest or experiences that made us suspect they could do well in this.
And in fact, one of the many issues I think about over the years, there are a lot of things we could have done different.
But you know, this is really an experimental type situation.
It's new, innovative.
There are a lot of things we didn't know that we know now.
And I certainly, and I know others that were directly involved in the program, if it were ever to start up again, would do things quite differently in terms of selecting people, handling people, that kind of thing.
But, you know, we didn't know everything at the time.
Let me now ask you, do you consider it as unlikely that there is a continuing program in all, perhaps Russia or Beijing or other capitals of the world?
Well, I don't think there's any doubt that at least the research part and also whatever you might call the applications part is still going on in other countries.
There's a tremendous amount of interest, I know, under the Chinese side.
And what contact I've had over the years suggests to me that there is still interest in the Soviet Union, or I should say Russia.
Well, look, I'm sure, really, in my own mind, that I think today we live, in a lot of ways, in a far more dangerous world than we did then.
I mean, now we have to worry about suitcase nukes, about 100 of them or whatever it is, and biological warfare and all kinds of horrid little things that we didn't worry about.
I mean, back in my High school days, it was simply duck and cover under the desk.
Today, it's a pretty dangerous world out there, and so my question is, if they're doing it in Beijing, if they're doing it in Moscow or Leningrad or wherever, then shouldn't we still be doing it here in view of the way you feel about the effectiveness of this?
I think we should be, but I may want to question what the application is.
I would be more inclined toward applying this type of talent to things like predicting terrorist strikes or locating where, say, nuclear weapons might be clandestinely stored, that kind of thing.
Is there any restriction with regard to the information you gather?
And what I mean by that is, can you gather information, for example, you want to know what the next winning lottery number is, you want to know what stock market is.
I've had people tell me that that kind of information cannot be gathered, that only sort of positive information can be discerned.
Is there any truth to that?
I would imagine any science could be applied in any way, good or bad.
It's one I've certainly been wrestling with for 20, 30 years.
Now, let me answer that in several ways.
In terms of numbers, like in lottery, I think the probability of success in applying either remote viewing or any form of SI is very low.
In the research side, in laboratory work, we find that numbers and words are not usually picked up.
Rarely.
It does happen, but it's very rarely, and I would not put too much money on it if somebody comes up with a lottery number.
So I think there's some kind of practical or operational limit with the phenomenon when you're trying to apply it to this type of information.
Now, in terms of the restrictions, go broader than that, I think there's still an inherent problem with the phenomenon.
It's really this.
A remote viewer or somebody else with side talent, another kind of psych talent, however you call it, might be describing the contents of a building, for example.
You may have a nice sketch, you may have pretty, things defined fairly well, but still be unable to identify or name what it is.
And it streams, and this is where I think a lot of people get themselves into trouble.
They think remote viewing, once you can describe the remote area fairly well, you can do anything.
It's not omnipotent.
There are practical limitations, and I think it has to do with how the phenomenon works.
And Dale, I would like to describe an experiment I did about a year ago here on the program.
All right.
Which, I'm going to be honest with you, scared the hell out of me.
We were at that time, as a result of your appearance on Nightline, we were talking about remote viewing.
And one night I thought, well, let's give it a shot.
Now, what I did was technically not remote viewing.
However, I picked an object in my home and I asked people to try and visualize and draw that object.
I didn't give them a control number or anything else.
I just said an object.
I had, I'm going to guess, several hundred responses.
But I note two things, Dale.
One, my wife was here in the house with me, participating.
We both felt incredibly observed, I guess is the right word.
If you've ever had the feeling that people are watching you, you know, and you turn around and sure as hell somebody's there watching you, we had that times a thousand.
I mean, it was like a million eyes roving around in the house.
Now, maybe that was our psyche.
Fine.
Then the faxes began coming in, and people supplied me with drawings of what they thought this item was.
Now, here comes the scary part.
The item was impossible to guess.
It was a marble, a slab of marble with a photograph or an etching of me.
And there was a specific frame that this little piece of marble was sitting in that could not possibly have been guessed at in a million years.
And yet, Dale, two people drew the object that was in my living room, nowhere near my studio cams that I've got here.
I mean, precisely, two people hit it on the nose, and a whole bunch of people almost hit it.
It was so bizarre that it gave me the Heebie Jeebies until this very day.
And I have just now, because I have these wonderful studio cams, I have brought the object into the studio, and I'm holding it up so everybody can see what was drawn.
I wish I still have the drawings.
I don't.
But my wife is in the other room and will confirm everything I just said.
Now remember, some people define remote viewing to be only remote viewing when you follow certain protocols.
So we don't know what the individual doing this information gathering was doing.
But I don't look at remote viewing like that.
I look at it as a process which is kind of like clairvoyance or some other form of side perception.
So I think in my viewpoint, it could have been remote viewing.
There's another possibility.
It could have been a mind-to-mind type of contact.
In the older days, early term of the century, this was called telepathy.
And I think even now, when people do remote viewing, there's still not enough certainty as to whether or not they're accessing the site or place or the knowledge of people at the place.
No, this is why I wanted to get back to this book.
Stargate is just a piece of this book.
It's just simply my personal observations.
I made no attempt to go into the depth and get all the players and all that.
That was beyond what I wanted to do.
I did not want to do that, and I will not do something like that.
It's just my perception, the activities I had and some of my observations.
So Stargate is a portion of the book, maybe 20%.
I have a portion in the back end, which might be another 20%, which goes into a description of how I think most people can experience what we call remote viewing or psych dreaming or synchronicities.
And I'll explain that in a moment.
But the middle portion of the book is kind of the heart of the book, and it's a series of big nets, short stories, where I try to illustrate, where I do illustrate, what remote viewing is, what psychic dreaming is, and what synchronicities are.
Absolutely, that's what the last portion of the book is.
Oh boy.
Now I do not use, I'm not a very strict one when it comes to instructions.
What I have there are observations and guidelines and recommendations of how people can go ahead and at least begin to open up this intuitive made specific phenomenon.
So I have steps, not a protocol, not a recipe, but I have steps of how people can begin to investigate this potential of theirs.
Now for those that want to go further, then I recommend how to do this from a tiger protocol point of view.
But first you have to catch good psi, as the saying goes in the research community.
And unless you know something is going on, there's no point setting up elaborate protocols.
And this is one of the reasons why I have felt some pangs of sadness over the years why this should come about.
And I think there's some inherent resistance that they have to admit that other people also can do this.
It's almost like an ownership here, which I think is unfortunate.
And this is exactly what I'm trying to get away from, this type of attitude in tracks in the psychic wilderness, to make it clear that most anyone can do some level of this, that no one is going to be set apart, unique, special, and all that.
And I think this is what's happening.
Some of these people are seeing themselves as too special.
And when that happens, you get yourself into this ownership problem.
I'm sure that if you were given targets and you began to be successful at sensing and drawing targets, you would begin to think of yourself in a very different way.
Some people, unfortunately, do drift into that direction.
You are absolutely correct.
And this is another reason I decided to write this book, one of the biggest reasons.
And that is this balance.
You don't want to get into this if you have any kind of inclinations toward this type of personality, because it'll probably push you off the deep end.
So you have to be very careful.
You have to be grounded.
You have to make sure that what you're doing, you keep your sense of humor.
You don't get carried away with your own abilities.
You don't get on the ego trip.
And I'm really against people.
I really feel strongly anti-people that get into the business on an ego trip point of view.
So, you know, I agree with you.
There is a kind of complex, and you really have to guard against it.
And I've had other remote viewers tell me that there were some remote viewers in the official program that got really carried away and had to be ejected from the program.
And I'll touch briefly, I'm sure it'll come up on Stargate, but since that's not the main focus of the book, I'll be going into the field in general, to the overall discussion on the nature of the phenomenon, on synchronicities, on psychic dreaming, that type of thing.
I have a whole spectrum of things I'll be talking about.
And I really believe, Art, that most people who are interested in seeing if they have this intuition-made specific, as I'm beginning to call it, I suspect that most people can experience this in a dream state easier than any other state.
So this is where I'm recommending people begin looking.
So it's an easy thing to do, and most people can at least go to sleep in dreams.
Dale, I'm going to tell you a story that the audience is probably sick to death of, but it's my one honest-to-God, I know what happened to me experience, and I would like your take on it.
Lived in Santa Barbara, California, worked at a radio station.
I've been in radio all my life.
Lived in a little garden apartment, came home one day from work, sat down, I'm a news junkie, put on the evening news, and sat there watching the evening news.
It was the type garden apartment in Santa Barbara where you had a sliding door, a big double sliding door that would open, and I could look out at the street where I would park my car, which is right in front of the apartment, so I could always keep an eye on my car.
But the curtains were closed, and I was watching the news.
All of a sudden, I had the only way I can describe it is ocean waves, tremendous, giant ocean waves washing over me mentally, saying, hey, someone's going to hit your car.
Something terrible is about to occur to your car.
And it kept washing over me so strongly, and I finally said a word i can't repeat here and i got up opened the curtain looked out at my car said another word i can't repeat here went back and sat down and started watching the news again 30 seconds goes by all of this begins washing over me again and again and again i got angry with myself i walked back over um i looked out the window there was my car looking just fine here's a guy walking down the sidewalk
uh out to out to uh toward my car he gets in the car in front of mine starts his engine puts it in reverse and slams into my car I tell you, Dale, it scared me so badly that I sank to my knees.
But I was mindful enough to get up and yell out, open the sliding door and yell out, hey, I saw that.
I've got your license number.
He said, I'm stopping.
I'm stopping.
And that's all there was to it.
But there was no question about it, Dale.
Something was really telling me what was about to happen.
This is exactly the kind of thing I address in Traction of Psychic Wilderness, because I think this is really where most people can best benefit from opening up to their psych talents.
I suspect that we all at all times are kind of scanning around to see what's coming our way in the future.
In this case, you probably pick up the intention of the man, and you sensed what he would then be doing when he got into his car that worked for you.
These are not uncommon things.
The research literature is full of these types of little premonitions.
Ah, so I could have been picking up on his reckless feeling and I made the connection between his reckless feeling and his being parked in front of me.
So not knowing exactly what your frame of mind was during the day or whatever, you might have been in a very spaced-out feeling, pooretic kind of mind.
You may have been just thinking, dreaming, that kind of thing.
And it's a coin term by Carl Jung almost a century ago, where he noted when he was working with some of his clients, he was a psychiatrist working in Zurich, Switzerland, that many times things would happen in the session that couldn't possibly be explained by normal coincidences because they had specific meaning.
So the timing of the incident and the significance of the incident led Jung to think that these were synchronistic.
They somehow happened due to an unknown principle.
He called it some acausal synchronistic principle.
Even in quantum physics we have terms like that, quantum synchronicity, for example.
So he coined this and looked at this from a human point of view, that people are sometimes drawn into situations which are way beyond chance that satisfy some need at that time.
And I see these as incidents that our subconscious mind has prompted us into.
It's almost like a self-fulfilling wish.
So I have many examples, some examples in my book, and I think many people experience these routinely.
Now, an interesting question, since we don't have time to go to the phones before the top of the hour break anyway, and that is, do you think that this ability, this inherent ability, is something that we are evolving, keyword, evolving into, or some long-lost ability that we are regaining?
It represents a very unusual opportunity for you to ask somebody who knows, somebody who actually coined the term Stargate, was D-O-D-D-I-A, telling you that right up front.
But tells us that remote viewing, remote sensing, whatever you want to call it, is absolutely real.
If you have a question, come now.
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Not everything is cut and dry, and I think people will look at events and say who profits, who benefits, and then they back into it with their theories, which many people would say are conspiracies.
I mean, there's no question there's a facet of government that wants to take guns off the street.
Not just assault weapons, but pure guns.
I want to get them out of Americans' hands.
In order to do that, you need tragedies and events like we had in Connecticut in order to create the stimulus to get the legislature and people behind that in order to say, you know what, they're right.
We don't need this.
We don't need that.
So I think when you look at that whole picture, as bizarre as it sounds, because you cannot see a conspiracy at every event, but you will look at these events and say, see, this is what they've created in order to get people to think this way.
Bottom line is people don't trust other people, and that's why they create all these things.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
The End Once again, the one-time director of Operation Stargate, the Stargate program, Dale Graff.
Dale, here's a very general question for you.
All right.
We have a deteriorating environment in America, in the world, really.
We have new diseases, flesh-eating diseases, all this horrid little stuff running around.
We've got new organisms in the estuaries of North Carolina that are killing fish and making people sick.
We have air that's foul.
We have ultraviolet that's pouring in.
Where I'm going with this is to ask you, as some remote viewers have done, they have looked at our future as a planet and made some rather dire forecasts.
Is that aspect of remote viewing, in your opinion, possible?
I believe, like I said earlier, that it is possible to tap into probable futures.
And I think sometimes when people do this, whenever you're working with anyone that's working with a projection, you really need to know quite a bit about that own Individual psychodynamics.
What is the nature of the individual?
What is the psychological state of the individual?
Because unfortunately, when you get into these way-out future scenarios, a lot of that personal stuff comes in.
And it's very hard to filter out a doom and gloom type personality that might perceive everything negatively from someone optimistic that might perceive it too good.
So I'm saying you've got to find a balance.
And it's very difficult to find an individual that can perceive anything in remote viewing or science-based without having a little bit of their own personal psychodynamics get into the picture.
And I would place any forecast or any projection that really looks totally negative in a very guarded perspective, because my suspicion is you're seeing a lot of the person's own perception coming in.
And I must admit, I'm not familiar with you at all.
I'm just starting to get back into this.
But about 16 years ago, a gentleman back east in Michigan, by the way, he's my old scout master who I love very much and I keep very much in contact with.
Not to give a little plug to the Boy Scouts there, but he told us, me and him were sitting back in the campfire one night.
He told me a story about, and I may be wrong about where this is at, but I believe it was Chinese monks that used to, I guess, I didn't know, I wasn't familiar with the term, but they would remotely view battles going on for the local king, I guess.
And some of the things he was able to tell me is that they were so accurate, and they were doing this from hundreds of thousands of miles away.
This is what's so amazing about this, that they were so accurate they could tell him exactly where the troops were, how to attack them, what supplies they were capable of, not over what they have with them, et cetera, how many numbers, blah, blah, blah.
But it wasn't just one person, from what I understood, it was a whole team of monks.
If we are now rediscovering this type of thing, that's about what it might be, that people with the right mental discipline from the yoga, various yoga techniques and whatever could very easily have stumbled upon this application centuries ago.
Well, you should go and read the book and then you will know, would be my answer.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dale Graff.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, this is Joe from Jersey.
I just had a question for Dale.
If he's ever heard of or seen any evidence towards the fact of the power of suggestion being that you could suggest something to somebody and they would act on that suggestion without actually having to tell them by just thinking or transmitting a thought.
Yeah, we were talking about that earlier called remote influencing.
In other words, being able to influence somebody else.
unidentified
Right, because I had an experience when I was younger that has never happened again, sort of like your little psychic car incident.
And I still to this day cannot get it out of my head because it was so real and there were so many suggestions that I had made that it just happened that it couldn't have been coincidence.
And I was wondering if he had actually gotten any evidence of that thought as well.
Well, it's like you said, Art, earlier, we had talked a little bit about this.
And it is possible, I believe, providing that the suggestion is acceptable by the other people, that this could happen, that you could suggest an action and they would go and do it.
I've seen examples of this, I believe, in dog training, where sometimes people just think about the command and the dog, the well-trained dog, will respond.
In fact, there was an experiment done at the Parapsychology Foundation connected with J.B. Ryan's lab many years ago by Keith Harari, where he was able to influence the movement of a cat and verify through statistical methods.
2020 did an incredible segment, absolutely incredible, an in-depth investigation proving, and I mean proving, with blind tests, they would go to this person's home and they would film the house pet,
the dog in most cases, and they would have the person start home early, come home early, at a totally random time, and the dog would begin acting in a very, I don't want to say irritated, but anticipatory manner, going to the door, jumping up and down, barking.
And I say again, that if you believe that, if you embrace that, and I do, then I think there's a great controversy with regard to our interaction with and treatment of animals.
Well, I want to be able to reach my full potential.
I was thinking about going into the law enforcement field with what I can do because, like the last couple times that I've done it, I was able to get robbers.
They were apprehended based on the information that I came up with.
If you were to go to a law enforcement agency and say, I want to go to the police academy and my qualifications are that I can predict when a crime is going to occur, you had better be sure you secure your present job before you try that.
Yeah, because what's going to happen is you're going to end up being a suspect, even if you are correct.
That's happened.
There was a case in Los Angeles some years ago where a woman was locked up because she perceived the details of a murder, which turned to be true.
The best approach, I think, is to keep a good track record and make sure you work with other people so you can verify the results and prepare a track record.
And when you get the stuff documented, then you might want to contact some other group.
But it might be best initially for you to have some kind of buffer between you and the police officers until you get comfortable and have confidence in one another.
So my recommendation is, yeah, proceed, but be very, very cautious and also do other projects, not just the law enforcement type thing.
I don't have a question for Mr. Graff, but I would like to relate an experience that I had several years ago.
This experience is in relationship to the theory which Mr. Graff mentioned before on the show about psychic ability having to do with looking back from the future in order to make a prediction in the present time.
Sure.
Okay, uh several years ago my husband and I were interested buying a home and uh I went to a local psychic he told me yes we were going to purchase the home and that it would be behind a um garden center.
Three years down the road we did purchase a home.
It was not behind a garden center.
But the day of the closing at the lawyer's office, we were traveling back to our apartment and uh we passed a garden center which she had described in great detail.
And at that moment I was thinking of her making predictions about buying a home and I think there's some connection where in the past she had seen me in front of her.
The psychic said you're going to buy a home near a garden center.
Well a year or two later when she bought the home there was no garden center.
But while she was on the way to her apartment, I guess before the move, they passed the exact described garden center.
Now she said, could it be that that psychic was looking at me in the same time frame that I was buying my home and simply missed it a little bit but perceived me seeing that garden center in the future?
You know, you've got to wonder if eventually, as remote viewing or sensing, is developed, whether there will be any more secret places in time.
unidentified
No!
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At this point, I'm not happy with the direction that government is taking us.
I'm happy with the fact that Americans are beginning to wake up and stand up and do what they have to do and shout and scream and blog.
And I think that's critical.
And I think that's what's going to save the Republic.
I think in the long run, as we go through all this stuff, it's the people who will save us and our country will remain strong.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 4th, 1998.
Dale E. Graff has authored Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness.
That's a great title.
And if you would like it, it is available generally in bookstores around the country.
And if they don't have it, usually in a bookstore they have the little computers and you just say the title or even the name Dale Graff and they can reference it, look it up, and get it to you post-haste.
So I just kind of, the reason why I was calling is because I wondered if you all had, if either of you had any idea why they were experimenting with it.
In the way that they did, my grandfather described to me, there was a classroom setting with about 15 to 20 people, and they locked him in the room and dosed them all.
And apparently his supervisor really, really, really wanted to be involved, and his superiors didn't want him to be, but since he was so persistent, they went ahead and gave it.
So I needed to say he completely freaked out, my grandpa said.
But he described to me what the other people were doing.
But I just really, after he told me everything that happened, I wondered why or what was the point.
There's so much going on right now with human use and all that.
You know, again, even without my opinion, I think the remote influencing potential of adversely affecting someone, whether it's friend or foe, is just such a thing.
No, I think it would be such a huge step from a few statistical deviations of what's been found in the laboratory to does this thing really lead to something practical, which I really doubt.
But in a dream thing, that's usually an agreed-upon situation.
So it's like a consent.
You're into the dream, or another way of looking at it is this.
There's an intent for a dream image.
Somebody has an image in mind that wants the other person to dream about.
And I have examples of this in Traction in the Wilderness, by the way.
Okay.
So it's an agreed-upon thing.
So the dreamer may have perceived through his own psi abilities, his own natural ESP abilities, what the intended objective is and simply incorporate it into the dream of his own.
So there's a question of where is it coming from?
Is it being added in by the dreamer through his own solubility, or is it being inserted by another person?
Without mentioning names, Dale, there are remote viewers, more than one I might add, that perceive there to be some sort of block, some sort of discontinuity, they call it, outaways around 2002 or 2000 something or another, past which they cannot see.
I think we need to know, like I said earlier, what the perception of the people doing the projects are.
It may be that one of them has a very strong opinion that there's going to be some catastrophe and that all the others are picking up the same thought.
So again, I would say for anything that has to do with gloom and doom or any kind of forecast, even if it's peaches and cream, you need to look at a variety of sources, not just people, a few people here and there, remote viewers or whatever.
Well, this one we've covered half dozen times already.
Remote influencing may be possible, but Dale does not believe that that kind of negative action is possible.
unidentified
I had one experience that happened.
I had a step-grandmother I didn't agree with, and we had really had it out, and for like four weeks, I mean, she was a healthy woman, too, and she was pretty wealthy, so she was in good shape.
And I had really thought like this, real bad thoughts for a long time that something would happen to her.
Well, anyway, within about a month later, she died of a brain aneurysm, and I felt like it was my fault.
But caller, to make you feel better, this is probably the world's expert on all of this, and you didn't kill her.
unidentified
Okay, and this last question is, you talked about it, too, about animals having the, you know, the remote viewing thing.
They did a thing on Animal Planet, and, you know, it's a station called Animal Planet, and they showed a scientific study, and this dog, this woman came at three different times, and this dog was at the front door every time waiting up there.
And in fact, when I do my workshops, which is described in my webpage, and it's sort of an integrated general approach, looking at a variety of side topics, not only remote viewing, looking more where people naturally resonate.
But that's one of the things we discuss, the pace.
And if people spontaneously have these experiences and are troubled by them, then I would suggest that you go through visualizations or intention exercises to not have them.
Also, having exercise and balance and being grounded, as some people would say, is also helpful.
But simply intending these things not to occur, many times will take care of these situations.
If they prevail, then you might have to deal with someone that's familiar with working in this area.
Michael Crichton, the author, wrote something that has always fascinated me.
He said that it may well be that the internet is not a good thing because eventually it will stifle entrepreneurism, it will stifle original thought, and eventually we'll get to the point where, whether you're in Tokyo or Bangkok or Cape Town or New York, there are going to be the top 10 ideas.