Art Bell replays a 1998 episode linking Colorado’s bizarre fireballs—including a four-minute blue-green object near Colorado Springs—to potential military cover-ups, with NORAD and Space Command ignoring inquiries. Meanwhile, Dr. Mark Carlotto and Prof. Stanley McDaniel argue NASA’s Mars Global Surveyor images of the Cydonia "face" (100,000-to-1 odds of natural origin) are suppressed due to economic interests in robotic missions over manned ones, despite claims Malin may have hidden October 1998 evidence. Callers report UFO sightings near Lockheed and Fort Carson, half-kiloton explosions, and a leaked MJ-12 document from 1976, while Bell dismisses a caller’s CIA disinformation theory as absurd—yet acknowledges eerie studio incidents. The episode blends UFO speculation, Mars mysteries, and institutional distrust, leaving unresolved whether truth or secrecy prevails. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across this great land stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the west eastward to the Caribbean, in the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north, all the way to the Pole, and maybe beyond with KDMI's soon-to-be 50,000-watt gigantic signal.
That's been anchored.
Worldwide on the internet, busy as post-to-post a.m., I'm Mark Bell, and there is a lot to do tonight.
Boy, is there a lot to do tonight.
We're going to begin the hour, this hour, with Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center and Michael Kurta, who's state director of MUFON, Colorado.
And the reason we're going to do that is because there is breaking news with regard to more fireballs.
I'm telling you right now, folks, there is something going on.
There are giant fireballs streaking across the sky in Colorado.
Now, we are not, to the very best of my knowledge, having a meteor shower.
We covered this with Linda Moulton Howe on this last week's Dreamland.
There is something going on, and I will let these two gentlemen explain what they know about what's going on literally as we speak in a few moments.
And then in the next hour, we'll bring on Dr. Mark J. Carloto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel.
And we will discuss the show the other evening with Richard Hoagland and the entire Mars business and get the other side of it.
I'll find out what really is going on because these gentlemen were in the meeting that was referenced that night.
I'm delighted to be able to share this news with our listeners tonight because it is a real privilege to be able to bring this stuff to them literally within an hour or so of the event.
And tonight apparently was a fairly dramatic event over Colorado.
What makes it particularly interesting, and Michael Kurta, the MUFON State Director for Colorado, will be providing our listeners with the details of this.
And not too long ago, I was talking about this very issue with a I'm not going to use his name, I don't have his permission to do so, but a world-renowned authority on meteorites out here in the Northwest.
And I was discussing this very issue.
How long, I asked him, can a meteorite be in the atmosphere and still be glowing?
Yeah, and not only is it going more slowly than almost all meteorites, but it has less mass.
So it would be slowing down much more quickly than a meteorite would slow down.
So a meteorite, well, 11 kilometers per second, Art, is about the minimum velocity that an object can be traveling through the atmosphere and still generate enough heat for the object to incandes or glow.
And also, I guess it should be said that Linda was on Dreamland Sunday and consulted with an astronomer who assured her we are not in the middle presently of any sort of said meteor shower or anything like that that would explain what is going on.
I heard that report and was delighted by Linda's focusing in on this subject because it is clear that something other than a natural phenomenon is almost certainly taking place here.
It is a strong statement, Art, and it's based on a lot of other people who've been saying the same thing about these fireballs for a long time.
There are a number of characteristics that we look for up here at the National UFO Reporting Center when we get a fireball report that help us establish whether it's just a prosaic meteor.
And let me say parenthetically, Arthur, that I'm fully aware that the Earth is hit by about 10 to the 12th meteors every day, every day of the week.
That's a lot of meteors.
The overwhelming majority of them are much, much smaller than a grain of sand.
Occasionally there are sizable ones, and Linda brought that out in her report on Dreamland.
But it appears to me, for a host of technical reasons that I'd prefer not to reveal to our audience quite yet, it appears to me that we're dealing with something other than just the classic rock coming in from space.
Let me play just about 20 or 30 seconds of what was reported to us just about two and a half hours ago by this young woman out in Colorado Springs regarding what she had to say.
And I don't know how long it goes, Art, it's unedited.
Well, I was just sitting out, our house is in Colorado Springs.
You face Garden of the Gods on the west side in Pikes Creek.
And there's kind of like a mesa ridge where there's some condos across from us and then another open field.
And all of a sudden, I saw this huge bluish, turquoise, bluish, most incredible color I've ever seen, light coming jutting out of the sky.
I mean, it was just dropping down at a pretty high speed, but it seemed like it slowed up as it came closer.
And instead of just like vanishing, like how a meteor light or a falling star that you've seen, you know, they shoot or they're small and they disappear at a certain height.
This thing just kept on coming down towards, it looked like the backside of these condos, the roof.
And we're about maybe a city block away from these condos on another mesa.
So it was relatively close to our place.
But the color of this glowing light, and it stayed blue the whole street coming down, remained glowing.
And the weirdest thing about it is, like, I've seen a thousand meteorites and whatever solid stars all my life, and I've never in my life seen anything.
And the interesting thing is, later in my report, I asked her if it changed colors, right?
And she said, no, it didn't.
It kept the same color.
That's very unusual for a classic meteorite, is my experience, because as they slow down, they cool down very quickly, and that changes the color of incandescence, of course.
Boy, I don't know, but something sure is going on.
It might be appropriate that we jump back in time a little bit to start out with our first sighting on the 10th of January, and it all kind of ties into this.
So if we can, let's go back to the 10th of January.
Sure.
And that was the start of it.
And apparently just before midnight on the evening of January 10th, the morning of January 11th, Peter actually received this call from the Summit County Sheriff's Office, reported a blue fireball.
And Summit County is due west of Denver, the Breckenridge area of Colorado, right along I-70.
And shortly thereafter, Colorado Springs Police Department also called, reporting the same thing.
What's interesting about this is the report from the Springs and also the other reports that we got from individuals down in the spring that, Springs that had called us, they stated that this object came out of the southwest and was heading northeast, which is very unusual for meteors.
As you know, they usually come out of the northeast.
And they reported it went right over the city.
There was an incredible sonic boom that was heard.
We've gotten reports from a lady here that Peter reported to me that had stuff knocked off shelves because of this sonic boom.
Edward Burke, one of our section directors down in the springs, called me and stated while he did not see the object, he certainly heard the sonic boom and it was quite loud.
Immediately on the heels of this, three helicopters took off from Fort Carson Army Base, which is located on the southern side of Colorado Springs, in between Peterson Air Force Base and Cheyenne Mountain.
And they were flying blacked out, headed northeast in the general direction that this object went.
They had no running lights on them whatsoever, witnesses tell us.
And Jack Murphy, the curator of the Natural History Museum here in Denver, who's been trying to find a piece of this so-called meteor, laid down a 100-square-mile footprint over the Black Forest area, which is north and east of Colorado Springs, which is about a 40-square-mile area of a very hilly and densely wooded area where he believes this object came down.
Apparently this woman that has her son, I believe it is, had contacted Peter last Sunday, and Peter immediately called me about it, and we've been trying to follow up with him ever since without any real luck.
And we're trying to follow up with him on that to find out he believes that this object came down somewhere in the Black Forest area also and apparently drove out to the area where they think it came down and ran into some military personnel that had the area cordoned off.
I can pull up your email quick and look at it, but I believe that they stated that they were military personnel, had the area blocked off, said that they were doing some type of contamination testing.
By the way, let me mention, with regard to those photographs that I told you about at the beginning of the program, they are now safely in many hands.
For anybody out there thinking that they might like to lay their hands on them, wouldn't be any good.
too late.
The End All right, back now to the subject of the skies above Colorado.
Peter Davenport, Director of the Seattle UFO Reporting Center, and Michael J. Kurta, State Director of Colorado's MUFON.
Gentlemen, you're both back on the air again.
unidentified
Thank you.
Thank you.
If we pick up where we left off, we were talking about the sighting of late evening on January 10th or early morning on January 11th.
And this gentleman again reports that this area in the Black Forest was cordoned off, and he specifically says by Air Force personnel, and stated that they were turned around and told to leave the area.
And when they asked why, they were told that the area was undergoing some contamination research.
The people in the car with him report that it smelled like a combination of rotten eggs and cotton candy in the area.
I got close, but I don't recall the specific odor.
unidentified
Okay, well, at any rate, on that same night, at just about eight minutes after midnight, a local Denver area police officer reports, out on patrol, reports that he saw this object come across the Denver metro area headed northeast, reported a large blue fireball.
And just about a minute later, a paramedic who was only six blocks from my house reported it going right over his car while he was traveling on a road here.
And again, headed northeast away from Denver.
Then we jump ahead to January 27th.
We have another report.
A commercial airline pilot flying over southern Wyoming at high noon reports, quote, a ball of flame trailing smoke passed his aircraft.
He reported to the FAA that this ball of flame created turbulence on his aircraft.
Well, now, while we were on the phone here during the break, Peter got another call from Colorado here, a person reporting that it was seen over Loveland, Colorado, which is due north of Denver, just south of Fort Collins, and also over Parker, Colorado, which is...
But in addition to that, Art, we took a call from one of your listeners out in Tennessee who called here at the UFO Reporting Center a second time.
He and I had chatted about a week or week and a half ago, and he said, Peter, I'm calling to let you know that what I saw over Tennessee about 10 days ago sounds very similar to what is being reported over the program tonight, Art.
So it may not be limited or restricted to Colorado.
This gentleman is a private investigator, former military.
He sounds very, very serious-minded, very eloquent.
He's a private investigator out there, so he's probably a very good observer.
Or even a re-entering satellite that might have had some, based on what the military said, some sort of fuel on board that could have been a contaminant.
I mean, I'm just guessing grabbing at straws here.
unidentified
Sure.
And I am too.
And one other thing about the sighting back on the 11th in this black forest area.
This is a very unusual area.
And we've gotten some other bizarre reports out of there.
We have a couple of unconfirmed reports from people that sound like good, credible people and were concerned that report a building out in the middle of nowhere that looks like an old outhouse.
And they see military vehicles pull up and a couple of people in military uniforms will get out and go into this outhouse and not come out for several hours.
Now, unless they have some type of an intestinal problem, that doesn't make any sense.
They've tried to open the door on this thing, and they cannot open the door.
And for what it's worth, again, this just seems like a very unusual area, this black forest area.
Now, if we jump forward to tonight's sightings, and Peter called me moments after he talked to this gal in the springs, and she also called here, and I wasn't able to talk to her.
But we immediately got on the phone and started making some phone calls.
And here's what we've come up with from tonight.
I was able to contact a couple of the TV stations down in the Colorado Springs area and the police department.
When I talked to the police department, they sounded very busy and weren't able to give me a whole lot of information.
They said they'd had just a couple of calls on this, and it was a blue light in the sky, and thank you very much, and hung up.
Again, the news stations that I talked to down there said that they had gotten a few calls on this, and they were following up with it and probably would have something on their morning news show.
Immediately after that, I started checking, and right before the 10 o'clock hour here in Denver, I started talking to our stations here in the Denver metro area where I'm at.
And NBC tells me, and they had a lot of information for me, they tell me they got at least 15 calls from the Denver metro area, one from the Eldora area, which is a ski resort northwest of Boulder in the mountains.
And again, a lady up there reported a large blue fireball came past her location.
They also had multiple reports from all over metro area, but they said that they were mostly concentrated on the east side of the Denver metro area.
Talking to our CBS affiliate, basically they said they have got some calls, but they didn't have time to talk because it was news time, and certainly we understand that you're up against the clock.
At first, when I first heard this one from the Springs and listening to Jack Murphy here, who I know and the curator at the Museum of Natural History in Denver, I was believing what he said that he thought it was a meteor, and he certainly launched a full search for this and has been on the news multiple times here, begging people to call him if they find this in their fields and things like that.
And, you know, I was saying, okay, it's just a meteor.
But now that all these events are coming one right after another, it just doesn't seem right now that we're getting these other indications here, the military down in the Black Forest area, things getting knocked off the shelves, they're coming from the wrong direction.
Something doesn't jive here.
So I don't know what to think of it.
You know, it could be space junk.
I believe we had, what'd they say, a rocket re-entry there over Seattle sometime back.
And we now think we have evidence that there were, in fact, three groups of objects over the northwest that night.
One that went over Surrey, British Columbia, a second group of seven disks that were minutes later seen over Sandpoint, Idaho, and a group over Kaiser, Oregon, about 200 miles to the south.
So we, just a little interjection there, Michael.
We think that the events on the 14th of November, my opinion is that it had nothing to do with space chunk.
All right, well, look, we can also look back, as you mentioned, El Paso, a big event, a good half-kiloton explosion, according to the astronomer we had on, Sunday.
And then there's the Greenland event that is in the full kiloton range.
And now we've got this flurry of reports like we're having right now, tonight, in Colorado.
And there is no meteor shower to account for all of this.
The astronomers are telling us nothing.
So what's coming to Earth?
What is coming to Earth?
And if these are bolides or meteors, then should we expect a big surprise to come soon?
One has to ask oneself.
unidentified
Certainly.
And boy, I for one hope not.
If the one that this lady described tonight was truly the size of a full moon and seen for four minutes, God help us if it hit somewhere.
And I'm sure we would have known about it by now if we would have felt it if it came down somewhere around here.
Or if it was that big, we wouldn't be talking on the radio, I don't believe.
You asked our opinions earlier on what it is we're dealing with.
I'd like to preface by saying everything is preliminary at this point.
From my experience, I'm sure Michael is the same way.
It sometimes takes days, weeks, or months to get to the bottom of an event like this.
So everything we say is preliminary.
But as Michael pointed out, the object was coming from the wrong direction.
It was coming for it to have been a likely meteorite.
Since the Earth is moving, I think it's about 60 miles a second, as it rotates around the Sun, most of the meteorites come from the leading edge of the Earth.
Yes, meteorites, even space junk to a degree, can be blue, but as I pointed out, I think early in the program, they are apt to change color traditionally.
Well, usually the space junk or even a meteorite or Boide would be made of different materials, and as it burned, it would change color because you burn one material, you get orange.
You burn another, you get blue, and so forth.
unidentified
exactly.
And again, all these have been reported as blue, and it was blue over Colorado Springs, and 70 miles later over Denver, it was still blue.
Something strange is going on, and I don't have a good handle on it, and I don't believe Peter does yet either, but hopefully we'll come up with something.
Now, whether they were not answering their phone because of this and they were getting too many calls, I don't know.
I also, you may or may not know, about a mile from me here, we have a huge downlink facility for Falcon Air Force Base, which is a satellite control facility, Cheyenne Mountain, and the Space Command.
And I can look out my window and see the huge, we have like eight geodesic domes here that's the downlink for this.
And I also tried calling the Space Command and also got no answer.
And that just strikes me as really odd.
I have to, and again, assuming here that they just were inundated with calls and decided not to answer.
But I tried multiple times and nobody answered the phone, no voicemail, no anything.
One other thing I'd cite, just briefly, Art, is on the 14th of November, people made hash out of the fact that this stuff that went over the northwest broke up into pieces, they alleged, and that was consistent with space junk.
This object did not tonight from our preliminary reports.
We'd like to learn more from people who may have seen that object either over email or telephone report.
Peter Davenport, UFO Reporting Center, Michael J. Curtis, Day Director of Colorado's MUFON.
There's stuff coming down in Colorado tonight.
Very strange.
Strange indeed.
Do any of you out there remember a period of time when we have had this kind of flurry of large objects entering our atmosphere?
And I say objects because as far as I'm concerned, until somebody finds a meteorite or a bullite or something, we don't know what the hell these are.
And grasping out and grabbing the word meteorite and just slamming it down on anything that creates a streak or a fireball across the sky is crazy.
And I'm not going to do it.
These are objects entering our atmosphere.
By the way, the good staff at Nightline in Washington, D.C. decided to initiate a fax war earlier tonight and attempted to fax me all of the faxes that they received at Nightline.
And before I stopped the machine from running, I did get, I don't know, 26 or so, and I want to compliment those who wrote to Nightline.
They were very polite, reasonable, articulate faxes that were said, at least the ones that I saw.
And my hope is that instead of getting angry about the usage of their fax machine, Nightline would consider the story.
And by the way, that is about what we're going to be up to here in the next hour.
We are going to consider the Mars Mariner story from a different perspective, specifically that of Dr. Mark J. Carloto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel.
So, that's ahead while we sit on this information with regard to Colorado.
And we'll keep you up to date as the night progresses on that if there is any more to report, but something weird is going on out there.
And then I've got this other thing I'm sitting on, these photographs.
Mama never said it would be easy from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Stay tuned.
It's going to get hot as the night continues.
These gentlemen will be, professors will be speaking about the Mars mission.
It comes up next.
unidentified
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
I can't live alive without your love.
Oh, baby, don't leave me this way.
I can't accept.
I surely meant your tender care.
Don't leave me this way.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
The night's program originally aired February 26th, 1998.
In a moment, we are going to continue the discussion about the Mars Mariner mission, but this time with Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley B. McDaniel.
They'll be up in a moment, and we'll hear the other side of, I think, of this question about the Mariner's imaging of the Cydonia region.
Now comes Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, author of The Martian Enigmas, Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, Carnegie Millen University, Assistant Adjunct Professor, Boston University, 81 through 83, Division Staff Analyst,
Analytic Sciences Corporation, 83 through 94, currently a senior staff scientist at the Pacific Zero Research Corporation, author of over 50 papers in scientific anomalies, digital image processing, pattern recognition, remote sensing, and other areas.
Senior member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, a full member of the Society for Scientific Exploration.
So he's a heavyweight.
So is Professor Stanley V. McDaniel, author of the McDaniel Report on the Martian Anomalies, 1993, co-editor, The Case for the Face, 1998, Professor Emeritus and former chairman of the Department of Philosophy, Sonoma State University, Roanoke Park, California.
Founding vice president of the Foundation for Critical Thinking, Teacher of Logic, Critical Thinking, Philosophy of Science, and Ethics at the University level now for over 30 years.
Two heavyweights.
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
Let's have Dr. Carloto, if you would just say a word or two so we can identify your voice.
All right, gentlemen, I take it that in part, why you're here tonight is in response to the program done with Richard Hoagland with regard to the Mariner mission, the imaging of the Sidonia area, and that you thought that he had some of it, or think he has some of it, wrong.
And so how do you want to make your case?
unidentified
Well, if I jump in here, is that okay, Mark?
Sure, go ahead.
Actually, we're not directly commenting on whatever Mr. Hoglund said because I myself didn't hear that program.
But we have heard both from reports on your show and also with people sending us inquiries that there's been a lot of concern about the possibility that the camera on the Mars Global Surveyor was going to be turned off.
I think, Art, there's been a lot of confusion on both sides.
Currently, Global Surveyor is in an error-breaking orbit, and it has limited time, or it has had limited time to take pictures.
And some pictures have been released on the Internet.
They've been really remarkable pictures.
What's happening now is the orbit is shrinking, it's getting smaller, and they have less time available in the orbit to do science.
In addition, Mars is close to going behind the Sun.
This is called a solar conjunction.
And when it's behind the Sun, this will happen in May, it's not possible to communicate with the spacecraft.
And as it approaches the Sun, because of radio noise, you can send less data.
So what's happening now is we're entering a period where it's not really optimal for doing a lot of image gathering.
And this is just a natural result of the way the mission is set up.
There's nothing unusual about it.
It's in fact been predicted.
But what's going to happen when it comes out of the solar conjunction, it's going to be in fact out of this arrow breaking orbit and in a very good orbit to take pictures of just about any target on the planet including Cydonia.
Well, actually it comes out of arrow breaking the end of March and from the end of March through the fall, sometime in September, it'll be in a position, I don't mean in a fixed position, it's in an orbit that it'll allow many opportunities, it'll essentially fly over any point on a planet over that period of time.
And in a few weeks we'll be able to predict that orbit.
NASA will have these orbital predictions as well.
And what we hope to do is be able to identify when the Sidonia image opportunities occur, because these are of course the ones that we're interested in, and try to announce them ahead of time so that everyone will be ready, everyone will know when they occur.
Because it turns out one actually did occur back in October, because back in October, Global Surveyor was in, actually when Global Surveyor got to Mars in September this past year, it went into an aerobraking orbit and it came out after about a month because it ran into a lot of atmospheric drag.
It almost tore off one of the solar panels, as you may recall.
According to the latest NASA or JPL release, I should mention that right now the global surveyor is only able to take equatorial pictures around the equator of the planet and not up north where Cydonia would be.
The thing about the idea that this was going to be an optimum time or a perfect time to take the photos, actually, I think Mark will agree, if it comes, the camera will be off until late March and then they'll turn all the instruments back on again.
Okay, well I can't speak for Richard Hoagland, but I do want to interject so that we're clear.
I think Richard thought that about mid-March there would be an optimal opportunity to get Cydonia images.
unidentified
Yeah, Mark, what about that?
Yeah, well, there's no way to predict that at this point because in the airbraking orbit, it changes every orbit because they're going through the atmosphere.
And depending on how much drag they hit, it changes the orbital period.
It's very hard to predict exactly where they'll be the next orbit or in five orbits.
You know, it's not a very good situation.
Once they come out of the atmosphere, it's in an orbit where they can predict over a long period of time where it's going to be.
Which they'll do in late March.
So that in late March, we'll be able to set up these orbital models and be able to predict in March and April and May and so forth when the opportunities will exist.
Richard suggested that the orbit is now somewhat elliptical, that it's at the low point about 150 miles, and at the high point, I think, about 300 miles.
Well, then, certainly at the low point, the pictures would be astounding if they could image at that time.
unidentified
Well, in fact, in October, when they were aerobraking earlier, and in the fall, they ran into the atmospheric drag problem and stopped aerobraking for a month.
And they were in an elliptical orbit like they'll be.
It was a larger elliptical orbit than they will be shortly.
But there were imaging opportunities.
In fact, one occurred on October 29th, and it would have yielded images about a meter or two in resolution.
It would have been an incredible picture, provided they took the opportunity to take it.
But we don't know because such a small number of photographs have been released.
Yeah, I'd like to mention on that, if I may, the NASA data management plan under which Malin is assignee says that after six months following after acquisition of data, the data must be released.
And we're just coming up on that six-month time from October.
So if the public wants to, and if NASA does, they should be able to get everything that Malin's taken up to and including October.
And if there's any photos of the Sidonia area, we should be able to see them then.
Are you gentlemen comfortable with the fact that though Dr. Malin is administering what shall happen with the photography, with the imaging, that just as a general rule, not with respect just to Dr. Malin, but that all of these things are withheld for a half year with this contract deal, do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea?
unidentified
Well, I'm very uncomfortable with it.
It is true.
If you read the data management plan, there's provisions for any data of considerable public interest.
It has to be released within seven days of acquisition.
Of course, how you define considerable public interest is open to question, although with the Sidonia area, I think there's pretty general agreement from the public pressure.
But no, I personally am not happy with that.
And I'm even less happy with the whole idea of dumping the responsibility over onto a private contractor.
From what we can tell, NASA has very little control over Dr. Malin.
Professor Van Flandren has said publicly that the public or the world had better prepare itself because he considers the odds of the face and the associated artifacts at Sidonia, the odds that they're natural, to be very slim indeed, and that would overturn a lot of paradigms.
Do either one or both of you agree that is a distinct possibility?
unidentified
Mark, you just did a statistical study.
Do you want to go on that?
You know, people ask, what do you think the odds are?
And I did a fairly detailed study based on a lot of people's work over the years and came up with odds between 100 to 1 and 100,000 to 1 in favor of artificiality.
So I would be, you know, people ask me and I tell them I would be very surprised if these structures turned out to be natural.
That's not to say, you know, if they turn out to be natural, then there's always a possibility that we're looking at very strange geology here, but all the indicators, and there's well over a dozen independent pieces of evidence that point towards artificiality.
I should mention in the I'm sorry, did I interrupt?
Not at all.
In the new book that, by the way, Art is just coming out probably next week from Adventures Unlimited Press, The Case for the Face, there are articles by all the major researchers, including Dr. Carlado's analysis of the statistics there.
Actually, there's three papers on statistical analysis, one by Professor Strange, who's an archaeologist, and one by Professors McDaniel and Crater on the mound geometry.
So we have three independent statistical tests that have been performed.
In your 200-page well-footnoted document regarding NASA's repeated 20-year failures in the Sidonia titled The McDaniel Report, you continually question NASA's incredible series of coincidences that always seem to stymy confirmation of what might be at Sidonia.
Therefore, it is somewhat curious that just prior to the first actual opportunity with a living, breathing spacecraft and camera in Mars orbit, that you suddenly are willing to accept what seems to be to some the most inane coincidence of all, that the camera, for technical reasons, must be turned off now, particularly disturbing in light of Dr. Webb's apparent mystified reaction to Malin's announcement.
unidentified
Well, actually, it wasn't anything sudden.
When we heard about the camera turnoff plan back a couple of weeks ago, I guess it was that Malin put it on his page, all the scientists I work with on this were very disturbed.
And, of course, we immediately thought, uh-oh, this is it.
And I think both of you gentlemen would have to agree that there is no guarantee with all the photos they're going to take, that there's no guarantee they're going to get good images, the kind you both want.
unidentified
Right.
Well, the thing is, is it isn't going to be just one opportunity now.
From here on in, after March, clear through till September, with the exception of about a month there in May when the solar conjunction occurs, there will be multiple opportunities.
So that's what we're thinking of.
Let me mention, Art, while the spacecraft is in this mode of the elliptical orbit and there's a break in or a pause in the arrow braking and so on, they have the ability to rotate the spacecraft laterally,
roll it, and that means that when they go near within a certain number of degrees of the Sidonia area, they could actually roll the spacecraft and point it over, and they've done that, by the way, with other objects already.
When it gets down into the mapping orbit in 1999, around March or April 1999, they probably won't do that because then they have a mapping mission where the camera is supposed to cover a certain area in a regular pattern.
So this is the optimal time in that sense.
Between that March, late March through to September, this is a marvelous time because they have flexibility.
They also are further away from the planet.
So what happens is the field of view is larger.
And it's a lot harder to snap a 3x3 kilometer piece with the high-res camera, which is all they'll be able to do when they're in the mapping orbit later.
But right now, they could roll it and get, I think, practically the whole area in question in one photo, which would be terrific, because the resolution would still be very, very good compared to what we've already got.
Correct me, Mark, if I'm wrong about any of those facts.
No, you're exactly right.
I was going to interject a few minutes ago, but you pretty much covered it.
You know, the other thing I want to say, Art, is that it's in no one's interest to not take these pictures.
This would be like hitting the lottery for NASA.
That's what they've been looking for since the very beginning.
As a matter of fact, that's exactly what Carl Sagan has had to say on the subject of responding to somewhat rich.
unidentified
Yeah, there's a very interesting political and economic possibility connected with all this that does raise the issue as to whether or not anybody is actually trying to prevent that from happening.
And then repeatedly, Professor, NASA would make statements suggesting they were disinterested and would not image Sidonia.
You remember those days, aren't you?
unidentified
Sure, the whole mess of strange behavior.
Now, a couple of things have happened since then that have led me to another possible answer to that, and I thought if you don't mind, I would lay that out.
No, I would like you to, but I want to ask you, I guess, directly, Professor, why you would trust an agency that you did seem to document in your own report lied to the American people, NASA, or is that an incorrect assessment?
unidentified
Well, there were a couple of things that were certainly falsehoods.
Whether they were conscious, deliberate lies or not, I'm not entirely sure now.
Once the group from my research organization, I don't say mine, but ours, the SPSR or Society for Planetary Study Research, met with NASA last November, that was.
We were struck by several things.
One was their cordiality and their apparent sincerity.
All six of us, and we included some pretty sharp diplomats who would detect strange behavior, we all felt that we were getting a straight shot.
But one of the things that really struck us as interesting was that the people at NASA didn't seem to have ever seen or even known about the kind of research we were doing.
Not really, Art, because scientists in a particular discipline subscribe to only those journals for that discipline.
And the journals that are read by the planetary scientists have rejected our papers, papers by myself, Brian O'Leary, and others.
So what we've done over the years is we've published in other peer-reviewed journals that are outside of the planetary community, so they haven't read them.
But they're there, they've been reviewed, and they've gone through the same scrutiny that their own publications have, but they're just simply in different journals.
Dr. Boyce, who was there at the meeting, Joseph Boyce, who's a planetary scientist, I believe he's in charge of a lunar mission right now, he was at the meeting and Dr. Horace Crater put before him one of Mark Carlado's very fine enhancements of the whole Sidonia area.
It's the one that's on the cover of his new edition of his book, in fact, The Color Enhancement.
And he pointed out that Dr. Boyce just kept looking at it for the whole hour we were there like he'd never seen anything that good before.
So there was that.
And then I began thinking, there are a lot of contracts going to geologists right now who more or less control the JPL missions in terms of the plan for the next 10 years.
They're all oriented toward robot missions, putting together little piles of rocks.
And if that sequence of missions were disturbed, a lot of contracts that are presently going to geology research might be dropped and others shifted over to, for example, Houston for a manned mission.
And it struck me that it's possible that there's some kind of economic reason behind the fight here almost between certain small group of people, possibly associated with the Planetary Society more than with JPL or NASA directly, and the NASA administrators.
I'm not sure.
This is just speculation.
But it struck me as another possible solution.
Now, what I'd like to mention is that that seems partly supported by Dr. Malin's web pages, because he has stuff on there that we consider apparent disinformation and deliberate disinformation, it appears to be.
And so that partly supports my perception that possibly there's some kind of attempt to hang on to a set of contracts.
Now, we hope to possibly talk to Dr. Malin about this.
I've made initiatives to JPL to see if we can actually get in there and talk to him and see if we can clear up some of these things and possibly get clarification as to why he's still got some of this misinformation on his web page.
I don't know how that's going to go.
That's only been within the last week that we've made that move.
So I hope that happens, and if so, I'd be happy to report what transpires.
If the remainder of the mission goes by, and it's going to be some time, of course, until that occurs, and at the end of the day, we have no definitive Sidonia Region imaging.
What will your positions be?
unidentified
Well, that one of the greatest scientific disasters of all time has just occurred.
Yeah, everyone will have lost out.
Perhaps one could view NASA's behavior, or I should say, Malin and JPL's behavior as self-serving because, as Stan pointed out, they have this series of missions planned to go back and land missions and do sample returns and so forth.
And that would be totally, the whole sequence would be, the need for it would be obviated by discovering artificial structures on Mars.
But in the long term, it would be self-defeating because, again, that's the reason why we're going there.
Those who think that there have been lies told conclude there, or even no, conclude there will be more lies told, maybe images taken that we will not get to see.
And we talked about the, you know, winning the lottery earlier.
I would remind you both of the Brookings report.
So, sure, there's lots of reason to say, oh, look, we now know that somebody else has been there.
We've got to send men.
That's one approach.
The other is they already know that somebody's been there.
unidentified
Well, there may have been pictures taken in October, and they're trying like the heck to figure out what to do about them.
That's one possibility.
You know, Carl Sagan has called for them to take new photos of Sidonia in his last book before he passed away.
And to put pressure on from Dan Golden to Dr. Malin.
I take it that, in a general sense, you don't object to that.
unidentified
Oh, of course not.
I think it would be very effective if people were to, first of all, wait until we find out what the orbits are going to be.
As Mark pointed out, we'll be able to make those determinations shortly after the aerobraking stops in late March.
Then there will be information on all the web pages, I imagine, including probably Mr. Hogland's webpage, about which days and hours these orbits are about to take place.
And prior to those crucial orbits, then the pressure from the public may help to encourage Dr. Malin to do what he ought to be doing, right?
How confident are the two of you, professors, that if images are received showing Sidonia to be not at all natural, that they would be released immediately to the public?
unidentified
I think they're probably not going to be able to do that.
The enhancements that Dr. Carlado and Vince di Pietro and some others have done are about what we think we're going to see if we get about that good resolution.
Well, actually, Dr. Strange, who's the archaeologist in our group, has projected what we might predict based on archaeological and cultural projections.
That's going to be in one of the articles in the book I mentioned.
And he, for example, said we should find further examples of geometrical shapes similar to the ones we've already found.
That's the type of thing that might be found, and you can predict perhaps what will happen.
I think you mentioned, or it was mentioned to me, that on the earlier program, this thing about Malin saying, if it still looks like a face, then nothing will be settled.
That raised suspicions that he actually had a photo, because he may have taken one in October, and it still looked like a face.
And so then he had to try to cover himself by saying, well, if it still looks like a face, then that doesn't prove anything.
But I don't think that either the public or the scientists are going to fall for that kind of reasoning.
Well, I hate to say this, or maybe I don't, but with the exception of the difference tonight's show versus the show we did with Hoagland the other night.
Hoagland suggested there would be an ideal imaging opportunity mid-March.
Now, in a month or so, if you were to find that indeed mid-March presented an ideal opportunity and that, uh-oh, there's not going to be opportunities, then what?
You're already suggesting to me that Malin may have a photograph in his hand based on what he said.
I'm sorry, but I'm suspicious.
unidentified
All right, let me give you another scenario.
The way this whole NASA and subcontractor arrangement is set up.
And Stan may not agree with me on this point, but it's really the perfect sort of setup for Malin to operate clandestinely because he has said in statements in the paper that he sees pictures that no one else on his staff has seen.
And no one at JPL sees these pictures because the downlink goes directly to him.
So he's the only person in some cases that will see a photograph.
But the point is this, that this is a perfect opportunity for them to take some preview images.
This is not the highest resolution situation.
We're looking at images that are probably more like 10 meters rather than a meter in resolution, so you won't be seeing eyelashes, but you're going to be getting confirming pictures.
This is a perfect opportunity to take those preview images clandestinely, if you want.
I'll use that term.
I don't like to use it, but let me use it.
And so that these things can be reviewed offline, and NASA can then figure out what they're going to do with it.
Golden can look at these pictures and say, yeah, this is what I need to pitch a manned program to Mars.
And he can line up his ducks, perhaps like he did with the meteorite announcement back two years ago.
All right, but here's a hard question for you in the middle of that.
If that would be his attitude or NASA's attitude, then why when they had the earlier pictures that we got of Mars showing the face, weren't they whooping it up because of the exact reason that you just stated?
Well, gee, it will fund a manned mission to Mars.
unidentified
Because they're not good enough.
They're not conclusive.
Yeah, well, not only that, NASA has consistently shown that it either can't or won't perform the types of experiments on the face and on other objects that were necessary in order to make these determinations.
They were tossed off as irrelevant quite some time ago, so that the higher levels of NASA just, I think, took that for granted and let it go at that.
But administrations change, and perhaps I'm not saying that this is true or I believe in it, but it's an alternative scenario.
And it gives them a way of offline looking at these pictures and sort of figuring it out, giving them a little breathing room rather than having things coming in real time and having to think on their feet what's going on here.
If I was in possession of photographs that showed this object was not at all natural, I would think very, very hard before I release them.
unidentified
Well, there's also an international protocol about such discovery, and it does require confirmation through various scientific channels before release to the public, although it also requires release to the public after that's done.
And it may be that they would follow that protocol also.
I think if I'm right about the possibility that there's an economic motivation behind this, another thing that could happen is they could work out a solution whereby the economics that they were counting on are still maintained, and at the same time they have release.
So that's also a possibility.
At least there are some of us now talking with NASA people, which has never happened before.
Professor McDaniel, on page 166 of your report, you referred to a Michigan congressman who discovered an official NASA memo issued by the director of the NASA Lewis Center in Ohio instructing NASA employees on the particulars of exactly how to lie to members of the public congress and the press.
unidentified
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Of course, now that official is now gone, Golden's a different party.
But the sad thing about that was that that inquiry was then dropped.
Well, I must say, this has been truly an intriguing hour, and the moment that either one of you have anything else to contribute, I would hope that you would immediately get hold of me.
You just heard Dr. Mark Carlotto and Professor Stanley McDaniel.
Frankly, I expected the majority of what Richard Hoagland said to be refuted.
But if I was listening carefully, and I think I was, check me on this, with the exception of the disagreement over the mid-March ideal opportunity to image, I could just about take this hour and transpose it right on top of Richard Hoagland's interview.
But maybe I, maybe I got it wrong.
I don't think so.
From the high desert, this, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26, 1998.
The Art Bell Somewhere in Time
You can dance, you can dance When I make a star of the light You see that
girl, watch that scene Digging, dancing, queen Friday night and the lights are low Looking up for a place to go Where the play of our music Getting in the swing You can
dance, you can dance Anybody could be that guy Night is young and music's high With a bit of rock music Everything's fine, so you're You listen to ourselves, September 2.6, 1998.
Anybody who heard that first hour, I think, could not deny that.
Now, in the second hour, we spoke with Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel with regard to the Mariner mission to Mars.
And all I can say is what I said at the end of the hour, having thought about it now for a few moments, I'm going to say it again, and that is that short of the disagreement apparent between Richard Hoagland and the two professors on the imaging opportunity in mid-March,
the apparent distrust of NASA and Dr. Malin was as obvious and pronounced with these two professors as it was with Dick Hoagland.
Now, I'm sure that we'll get some reaction from the audience, and we'll find out whether they felt the same way.
But that would be my short and sweet assessment of what we just heard.
Now, we are about to enter an open line segment.
I do have a couple of things I want to say.
One, I said it at the beginning of the program, and I'm going to say it again now.
Somebody has sent me two photographs that seem to be undeniably what I think may have national security implications.
The person sending them has asked me to sit on them for at least a week, and then I expect a communication from this person.
I think these photographs are genuine, and they are pretty frightening.
I am going to protect my source, who says he could lose his job were I to post them.
But I do expect and hope to receive a communication from this person.
You know who you are, please.
I will not hold on to them indefinitely.
I don't think that I have that.
I don't think I can do that.
I don't think I can morally do it.
You sent them to me.
You must have had some expectation that I would do something with them.
So, morally, in view of what you claim they are, I don't think I can hold on to these for more than about a week without hearing from you.
Hint, hint.
Somebody sent me a vaccine and said, hey, Art, would you go to jail to protect your sources?
Well, in this case, I can assure you these photographs have been widely distributed to people I trust, and I'm by far not the only one who has them.
So...
I'll leave it at that for now.
I'm getting additional reports of fireballs from all sorts of people here, and we will continue to monitor this occurrence, whatever it is that's going on right now, as the night progresses.
And Peter, if you're out there and you have any additional information, please get to me as soon as possible.
It looks as though Jack Kvorkian has done it again, this time, a young student, 21 years of age, a young quadriplegic student, sadly, who won the right to leave the hospital and consult with Kvorkian.
He's gone, and this will no doubt be very controversial, but it comes under the category in my mind of whose life is it anyway.
I am a libertarian at heart, and I think you know my adamant feelings against suicide.
But those adamant feelings are for me.
And what you do with your life is your business, not the state of Michigan's, not the U.S. federal government's.
It's none of their damn business.
If you want to do the wrong thing, in my estimation, that should be your right.
Oprah won her case in Texas.
She came out, hands high in the air, and talking a lot about the First Amendment.
President Clinton again has done the right thing.
The National Governors Association said that the internet should be taxed, or those items bought over the internet should be taxed.
I told you last night I thought that was a stinky idea.
Today President Clinton also apparently thinks it's a stinky idea.
A U.S. decision Thursday to withdraw sanctions against Colombia, war on drug stuff here, folks, was helped by the impending departure of the president there.
He's been tainted by a drug corruption scandal since 1994, but Samper says it is wrong to hold him responsible for the sanctions being imposed two years ago.
Says the withdrawal is recognition of the country's drug-fighting efforts.
Colombia has been ineligible now for U.S. assistance, except for humanitarian and counter-narcotics aid for some time.
In the Animals Attacking People Department, I've got this email.
Art thought I'd let you know about the strange goings-on at my house.
Last week, my two-year-old cat turned on me for no reason and sliced a five-inch by one-quarter-inch cut in my leg just above my ankle.
I'm glad we no longer live in California because my cat would probably be freaking out on a regular basis.
What are animals doing out there anyway?
That's weird.
Here's somebody who writes, Hey, Art, I have a copy of Scallion, that be Gordon Michael Scallion's map that was given to me in August of 1996.
In a column off to the left, he lists the following early warning signs.
Earthquakes and tsunamis will occur in India and Sri Lanka.
These happened three weeks after I got the map.
The following has also happened.
Water temperatures off the west coast will rise, El Niño, of course.
Plagues and new diseases will occur.
They have.
Strange, low-level noise will be heard.
They have.
A new volcano will be born in the Sierra Nevada.
Look at Mammoth.
It's trying.
Mount Rainier will erupt.
My friends up there say the snow on Rainier is nil by comparison.
Almost like the mountains heating.
The new undersea volcano off the Oregon coast is right where Scallion puts the smaller island of La Muria.
The new lake in Peru.
It will get bigger.
Nostradamus and Scallion.
And of course, Casey.
So that's just something for you to think about.
There is so much fresh water in the San Francisco Bay right now that many of the saltwater fish that generally are abundant in that area are now taking off like crazy for the ocean, trying to get back in the salt.
That's John in Fremont, California sending that.
So it's pretty strange out here, folks.
I've got a lot more, but we're going to go to Open Lines.
Anything you would like to discuss is really fair game.
I'm going to give you a photo op here pretty soon.
Oh, and I've got what I consider to be one of the best time traveler communications that I have ever had, part of which I'm instructed not to read on the air, and part of which I may read on the air.
So if you'll hold on before the show ends, within the hour, perhaps, I will read this to you.
I was very impressed.
I handed it to my wife, and I said, you know, I don't normally ask you to read this stuff, but read it, will you?
And she said, fascinating.
And I sent it to Keith, and he said, well done as well.
So I'm not sure what I've got on my hands here, but I'll read it to you when I get a chance.
Because I was watching the moon and I noticed there was a flare coming out of the moon, appeared to, and it went over towards San Diego, and it came and hovered right over the channel in Lockheed B1.
Okay, well, if you'll listen on the air, Dr. Jacobs suggested that, and by the way, Michio Kaku, Professor Kaku the other night said the same thing.
That there is, contrary to what you may have seen in movies like Independence Day or many others, there is no reason necessarily to believe that these beings are friendly.
And even if they are technologically very advanced, that their motivations toward us would be sweetness and love and curing our ills, cleaning up our atmosphere and rivers and so forth and so on.
There is no reason to believe that they would be disposed toward thinking of us, as Professor Kaku said, as anything more than an anthill.
Our speed limit here on the open highways is 70 miles an hour.
Now, tell me why a cop who is not chasing somebody or does not have his lights and siren going should be going past you like a tornado doing probably about 95.
actually all the comments were together and animals congregated that what pretty much instead of like him going in hunting the animals to come on the time not really sure how i mean The people who really are strict in believing that to the letter, what did say, like, the cheetah and the tiger, etc., or just the cat family, what did they eat?
You know, wouldn't they have to eat the other two gazelles or something?
Hey, you know all of you out there who think I'm a black ops disinformation artist?
That's quite a few, actually.
That guy wrote the article?
Well, I have now given you a photo op that can go with that article.
If you will go up to my website right now, that would be www.artbell.com, and just look on the left-hand side of the main page, you'll see something says Studio Cam.
Click on that, and I would call this the Photo Op of a Lifetime.
What you see there is the real thing.
It's unscummed all the way.
And that's all I'll say.
But I would say this photograph, along with the Black Ops indictment, would sort of go together quite well.
I'll tell you one other cool thing about the Studio Cam, and that is that I am going to replace the present Studio Cam cameras with the higher resolution Howard Industries cameras in the next few days.
I'm sure by next week, well, it's already, what is today anyway?
Thursday.
Already Thursday.
Friday.
Good Lord, is it already Friday?
Hey, Greg Braden's going to be on tonight.
Oh, Monday night, I'm going to have a guest on the Titanic.
I'm going to have a guest on the Titanic.
He's Captain Jim Clary.
And this movie now is headed, you know, for the biggest seller of all time.
I think it's about to challenge for that.
Already internationally it is.
But even domestically, it is about to break the Star Wars barrier and probably will be the biggest earner of all time.
And so there's a lot of interest about the Titanic.
What an incredible, incredible motion picture that is.
And so we're going to bring on an expert about the Titanic.
If you read any of this over the air, do not read the following.
And there follows two, three paragraphs that I will not read.
And at the bottom he says, these must not be posted on your website or mentioned on your two radio programs until after September 12th, 1998.
Lives will end if you cannot or choose not to heed this warning.
Failure to heed this warning will result in catastrophic events culminating with the possible death of thousands of men, women, and children.
If you wish, you may read the remaining portion of this letter over the air.
As stated, I am a time traveler.
Although we refer to it as riding the wave, I am a U.S. citizen born in 1964.
I am nearly 40 years old.
In 1983, I enlisted in the U.S. Army.
It was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was first approached By those I now refer to as simply my friends.
This group does not consist of aliens nor interdimensional beings.
They are human.
I have learned over the years that not everyone can safely travel the wave.
And I was first approached, I was told due to an unusually large amount of some chemical that naturally occurs in the human body, it somehow aids in the time travel process.
My friends told me what chemical it was back then.
That was many years ago, and I've long since forgotten the name of the stuff.
I think it has some copper or something in it.
I've since learned that when I enlisted in the U.S. Army, my friends gained a large amount of information about me, my genetic history, and so forth.
And it was this information that changed my life forever.
I have traveled the wave 16 times on various missions for my friends.
But five days ago, while I was back in 1999, I stumbled across some information I wish I never had.
My life is no longer guaranteed.
I find that my friends are far from true.
The information proves that my friends are members of an organization that I see referred to only as the Club.
I have no doubt, however, that this group is in fact the same group that others have called MJ-12.
I am now virtually a fugitive.
I was arrested and began to see that I was going to be killed, so I escaped from my friends two days ago, June 21st, 1999.
Before I rode the wave, back to 1998, I prepared a packet of information, including names, dates, even some photographs.
I have arranged for a friend for this packet to be forwarded to you and a few others in the event of my untimely death or disappearance.
Please keep in mind, this packet was left with a very trustworthy individual two days ago, June 21, 1999.
As I have now disappeared, I'm confident the packet will find its way to your hands.
I will not remain in 1998.
I took the chance to rest here so that I could pass on some vital information and take care of some personal duties.
I will not reveal in what time period I intend to live, but I will on occasion come back to check into this time period.
To aid in proving the veracity of the information I have revealed to you in this letter, I will now reveal a few things further.
I'm keeping back a few things that I do think it is now wise to reveal.
1.
President Clinton will pass through this current scandal and the next as well.
Look for the words hollow oaks, that's hollow oaks, to be associated with the next scandal.
2.
President Clinton will not finish his second term.
He will resign due to health problems soon after the Hollow Oaks scandal.
President Gore will lead his rejuvenated Democratic Party, as well as the nation, to bringing not one, but two new states into the Union.
3.
A man named Brown will appear to be a strong candidate for the Republican presidential nomination to run against President Gore.
However, the ticket in 2000 will be Quayle Bush.
Wow.
4.
It is far better to live in a world where Saddam is in power in Iraq.
Watch for this quote to appear as a headline in the Washington Post.
You will not believe who said this.
Just a few more quick notes.
1.
Time travel need not be achieved solely by mechanical means.
I use only a small electromagnetic tuner and my developed abilities to ride the wave with ease.
2.
I have been sent on 16 missions for my friends over the years.
The packet I mentioned above contains a logbook that I secretly kept while on the missions.
3.
It is unbelievably difficult to create the feared time paradox.
On my second mission, we tried to create the paradox.
We could not.
Time is like a river, ever flowing and changing, but always moving forward.
4.
I was a big fan of your late-night TV talk show.
I have several on RDVD, whatever that is.
My late-night TV talk show, please.
Mr. Bell, I hope to never have to contact you again.
When you get my packet, I trust you will do what needs to be done.
This may be a bit of a cop-out on my part, but I deserve a normal life.
I can no longer be part of this.
May God forgive me if I am making a mistake, but I'm going to try to lose myself in my chosen time.
If I am successful, I will live and die a normal life.
May God bless you in the upcoming times.
Signed, a refugee from 1999.
And then, of course, there are the three paragraphs I am asked not to read, which I will honor.
I would ask Keith, if you're out there, would you take the portions of this that can be read, that I just read, and post them on the website, please?
I considered this to be a very serious letter, particularly the portion, unfortunately, that I can't read you.
But even that portion which I did read you, I consider to be quite serious and at the very least, very fascinating.
I was a clerk for one of the military agencies in Washington, D.C. And I worked for a four-star admiral in a government-leased building in Arlington, Virginia.
And I had been ordered to destroy that document along with a whole bunch of others and several drawers' worth.
And came across that.
I had the chance to make a photocopy of the briefing document, the President's letter, and the first page of the operations manual, but didn't feel I had time to make copies of other documents that were in the drawers.
Do you believe that document, the MJ-12 document, to be absolutely authentic?
unidentified
Absolutely.
The reason I do was not only where it was and how it was treated and the general handling of it, there were names and individuals in the files that were associated with it that were more current and specifically people.
No, sir.
At that time, I was really concerned about being found out after having released it.
And the specific reason I'm calling this morning is there was an individual, military at that time I believe, individual in cover letters to that document that is still alive today.
And I think has an obligation to come forward with what he knows.
I won't name him specifically, but I'll give a clue.
And the clue is that individual turned down a very high-level military nomination or post.
He had been nominated by the president or named by the president to take a post.
And he very abruptly, and many say without reason, stepped down from that post and did not take the post.
You remember the operative who was feeding Woodward and Bernstein the information at the Washington Post?
They called him Deep Throat, I think, right?
From now on, when you communicate with me, send me email or send me a letter or whatever you might do to back this story up, which I hope you will do, I want you to refer to yourself as Deep Doo-Doo.
If you want that one in a million photo opportunity that ties right into the black ops stuff, you'll see it up there on the website right now.
The studio cam.
I'm going to leave it there for about 22 minutes and then start it up live again.
By the way, you'll recall that I posted a fax yesterday from the Nightline staff at ABC, an angry fax telling me that I should instruct my listeners to write to them and not tie up the fax machine at Nightline because they couldn't even get internal faxes sent.
And so I did.
I read the fax on the air.
I posted it on the website and I gave out their mailing address, as you recall yesterday.
Today, today, the Nightline staff decided they were going to send all of the faxes they received to me on my fax machine.
Now, I caught it after about 26 pages or so.
But look, and by the way, the faxes that they did send that did get through before I chopped the cord on my machine were all, I thought, very articulate, polite, reasoned faxes from a lot of you asking for a very reasonable thing that Dan Golden put on some pressure to ensure the Sidonia
images would be taken.
I thought it was all very reasonable.
Nevertheless, they are Engaging in fax war with me.
And I would like to invite, if anybody from Nightline, from the Nightline staff, would like to come and go on the air.
The whole intent of this was not to annoy you or to lock up your fax machine, but rather to have you ask some questions.
You know, it wasn't just to engage in the beginning of the fax wars.
No, not at all.
We did this for a very genuine reason, and I'm wondering, I thought it might be interesting to get somebody from Nightline to come on the air and address the actual question and the reason for doing all that faxing.
So I don't want a war with Nightline.
I don't see any reason for them to be acting in that manner.
And again, I say, read the faxes, folks.
Don't just look at the numbers back there at Nightline.
Read the faxes and see if you don't feel yourself.
This is a big story and one that deserves your attention.
So there you have it.
Also, the time traveler facts that I read, boy Keith is good, it's already up there.
The portion that I could not read on the air, was asked not to, is blacked out, just like in a Freedom of Information Act that you would do.
You'd receive back from the government.
You know, the part you really want to read is blacked out.
But the rest of it, that which I read, is there for your perusal on my website now.
Again, it's, of course, www.artbell.com.
From the Denver Post in January, a mysterious object lit up the night sky and up and down the front range early Sunday, then startled witnesses with a deafening explosion.
There was no official explanation about the object Sunday.
Military spokesmen denied the object was a military aircraft.
Of course they did.
Local scientists speculated it could have been a meteor or maybe illegal fireworks.
Douglas County resident Gunnar Hars witnessed the phenomena around 12.15 a.m., quote, all of a sudden there was an impact that shook the house and then a double explosion immediately after the impact.
Said Harris, quote, I don't know if a meteorite makes that noise, but I do know that my house was shaking, end quote.
Boy, there sure is a lot of this going on, isn't there?
Do you remember the other night you were talking about negative, you know, they might need some kind of negative force to go into use for time travel or whatever?
Before I talk about time travel, maybe next time you start a fax war, you could ask the faxers to include some sort of legal phrase like, this is a private communication intended not to be retransmitted by fax except within your organization, something like that.
I'll have to check and see exactly what station that is.
I'm a musician myself.
I listen to a lot of rock music.
We play rock music and stuff.
But, I mean, you know, I listen to your show as often as possible.
I work nights, so I'm up at night late anyway, so I listen, and I'm able to.
But there's been a story I've been wanting to tell you for so long, and I've been trying to get through, and there's been subject matter that had arisen on one of your previous shows would have been exactly what would have been talked about.
First of all, the guy that was on last night talking about how everyone was going to be Christian at the end of the world, the actual statement is that we would all find out that we were having the same religion.
It wasn't that we were all Christian.
It was all realizing that there was one religion.
And second of all, about the letter from the time traveler?
Yes.
Isn't it possible that since he gave you that letter and you're talking about it on the air, that it could possibly be changing the events that it's not going to happen that way now?
Yeah, I just turned it on, and I was getting, actually I was going to go to bed early that night, and I was thinking, man, that sounds like my writing.
Well, but you should see the emails I get as a result of that.
unidentified
And the emails I've been getting.
But it just seemed to me, I mean, I don't know.
I mean, do you ever, well, of course you probably think about this, but it just seems to me, I've been listening to you for you for about two years now.
My mother has been telling me to listen to you for five years.
Can you understand that a lot of people reading your story, your speculation, would embrace it as fact?
unidentified
I could understand that, but having gone, when I went on your webpage to reread it again of something I wrote a year ago and riddled with typos too, because I was probably up late at night when I did it, I'm not sure if they would actually think I was being serious or if it was just merely a speculation, not as, oh yes, our Bell is a CIA agent or something like that.
And obviously, you too must have some interest in these areas.
You wouldn't be posting in those news groups.
unidentified
Oh, definitely.
When I started listening to your show, I was hooked because I was interested in those areas, which I guess is the reason for your great success.
I mean, a lot of people are probably having those interests.
But I think maybe a lot of people also might think, well, because you discuss your guests who are meeting strange occurrences and lawsuits and death threats and cancer and everything else.
I mean, I'm sure maybe many of your listeners are thinking, well, what's happening to these people after they come onto the show?
And there's a writer who recently wrote this great novel about being in prison, and I was talking to him, and I started talking about you, and he said, oh, yeah, we all listen to him all the time.
I can just imagine people being in prison, listening to your show, and their paranoia is being fueled, too.
It also mentions here two of his frequent guests are Linda Moulton Howe and Whitley Strieber, both of whom have been known operatives of the CIA on UFO disinformation.
Now, where did you get that?
unidentified
Okay, well, that information is pretty stuff I got off the net from doing research on that.
But see, but see, the way you write it, to repeat again, two of his frequent guests were Lynn Wolnhow and Whitley Street, where both of whom are bnown operatives of the CIA on UFO disinformation.
I would say that's rather strong and direct and doesn't represent itself as having come from an unattributable source or a website or, you know, whatever.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
Well, probably a grave mistake on my part, but I mean, I'm a great fan of Whitley's, but every time when I I become fascinated with someone as as Whitley, I'll I'll do some research on him, and I pick up all these things.
I mean, they're everywhere.
A lot of people seem to believe that he is a, you know, some operative of some sort.
This was an act of admiration on act of admiration.
I'm in league with the government feeding the American people disinformation about ufology and God knows what else in secret league with God knows who out there.
I mean, how can you call that an act of admiration?