All Episodes
Previous Next
Feb. 26, 1998 - Art Bell
02:46:53
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Mariner Mission to Mars - Mark J. Carlotto, Stanley McDaniel
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
The night featuring Coast to Coast AM, from February 26th, 1998.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, across this great land, stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains in the West, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, And maybe beyond with KD&I's soon-to-be 50,000-watt gigantic signal.
Pick up an anchorage.
Worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell, and there is a lot to do tonight.
Boys, there are a lot to do tonight.
We're going to begin the hour, this hour, with Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center and Michael Curta, who's head director of a move on Colorado.
And the reason we're going to do that is because there is breaking news with regard to more fireballs.
I'm telling you right now, folks, there is something going on.
There are giant fireballs streaking across the sky in Colorado.
Now, we are not, to the very best of my knowledge, having a meteor shower.
We covered this with Linda Moulton Howe on this last week's Dreamland.
There is something going on and I will let these two gentlemen explain what they know about what's going on literally as we speak in a few moments.
And then, in the next hour, we'll bring on Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel.
And we will discuss the show the other evening with Richard Hoagland, And the entire Mars business and get the other side of it.
I'll find out what really is going on because these gentlemen were in the meeting that was referenced that night.
So a lot to do.
do we're going to be busy i want to say something uh... just before we go to these
gentlemen All right.
I have come to be in possession of a couple of photographs.
The nature of which I consider to maybe be an issue of national security.
Photographs that probably should not have been sent to me but were.
With a plea that I not do anything with them for a while.
Now, here's the deal.
I'm expecting a communication from this person in a week.
If I don't get that, then what I'm going to do is to post these photographs, without posting the person's name, and let you decide what you're seeing.
And I will give you what information I have at that time.
So it's kind of a dilemma for me.
I consider this to be critically important on the one hand, but I have an obligation to my source on the other hand.
It's not a good place to be in, really.
So that's what I guess I've decided to do.
And if that person is listening tonight, I would appreciate some help because I think that what you put into my hands needs to be made public.
I think that's all I need to say about that right now.
Alright, so there's something going on in Colorado.
Something serious is going on in the state of Colorado.
Peter Davenport is the Director of the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
Michael Curta is the State Director of Colorado's MUFON.
We have them both here for specific reasons this night.
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
Peter, why don't you lead off with what you know.
Thank you, Art.
And as always, it's a privilege to be here.
I'm delighted to be able to share this news with our listeners tonight because it is a real privilege to be able to bring this stuff to them literally within an hour or so of the event.
Tonight, apparently, was a fairly dramatic event over Colorado.
What makes it particularly interesting, and Michael Curda, the Mufon State Director for Colorado, will be providing our listeners with the details.
Let's be sure he's there.
Michael, are you there?
I sure am, Art.
Good evening and thanks for having me also.
Yes, sir.
Just wanted to be sure you were there.
Go ahead, Peter.
The incident started just over two hours ago here, Art.
We took a call from a very sane and eloquent-sounding young woman.
We may play just a short excerpt from her report to us just over two hours ago.
Okay.
She resides on the west side of Colorado Springs in an area called Garden of the Gods, I think it is.
Michael may be able to describe it a little more accurately than I can.
But she and her husband were looking to the west, over the mountains, to the west of Colorado Springs.
This is in the vicinity of Pikes Peak and Cripple Creek and places that most Americans know They saw what they described as being a huge blue-green fireball coming down.
I gather it was almost vertical, but I'm not sure of the direction yet.
They were looking, they think, straight west.
A blue-green fireball, and I was shocked to hear from her how large this was from their vantage point.
She said it was as big or bigger than a full moon.
That is a very, very sizable object in the night sky.
It sure is.
But what really surprised me And this is yet to be confirmed, of course.
We're just getting preliminary data now.
Maybe Michael will be able to tell our listeners a bit more along these lines.
I know he's done some very, very quick work out there in Colorado.
But what really shocked me about this one was that the object she estimated, they were looking at it for four minutes.
Four minutes.
That object was in the night sky to the west of Colorado Springs tonight.
Not possible if it's a meteorite or bullet or whatever.
That is my understanding, and not too long ago I was talking about this very issue with a... I'm not going to use his name, I don't have his permission to do so, but a world-renowned authority on meteorites out here in the Northwest.
And I was discussing this very issue.
How long, I asked him, can a meteorite be in the atmosphere And still be glowing?
Hey Peter, I can answer that.
You know, here in the desert we have a wonderful clear sky.
As you know, we have the shuttle up and it comes down from time to time.
My audience will certainly back me up on this.
One morning when the shuttle was coming back, I alerted the entire audience, go outside and look, it's going to be a real treat.
The shuttle is going to cut right across the horizon.
And leave behind it a great big orange glow on a trail, because it was just before sunset.
And sure as hell, I went out after the program, a few minutes after the program, and in the western sky began sort of a orange dot.
And within, I would say, Peter, I'm going to say 30 seconds, That orange dot streaked across the entire horizon, and we lost sight of it.
That was 30 seconds, and that was a shuttle re-entering, which is going a lot slower than a meteorite coming in at like 25 grand, or whatever it is.
So that's a good reference for you.
Nothing would remain in the sky, meteorite-wise, not for four minutes, no way.
Yeah, and not only is it going more slowly than almost all meteorites, but it is It has less mass, so it would be slowing down much more quickly than a meteorite would slow down.
Sure.
So a meteorite, well, 11 kilometers per second, Art, is about the minimum velocity that an object can be traveling through the atmosphere and still generate enough heat for the object to incandesce or glow.
Sure.
And four minutes, of course, this is only a preliminary estimate on the basis of one report.
So we have to underscore that and hopefully Michael and his state section directors will be able to get out into the field and talk to other people who have seen this.
As he will report, it was seen from many, many locations in Colorado.
But in preparation for the program tonight, I pulled down a copy of an old UFO book published in 1956, written by Edward J. Ruppelt.
I'm not sure how it's pronounced.
It's very popular.
It's entitled, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects.
That was back in the days when the Air Force admitted that they were investigating this type of phenomenon.
Blue Book time.
Exactly.
And Edward Ruppelt talks about a noted astronomer.
His name was Dr. Lincoln La Paz.
He was based in New Mexico.
He was perhaps one of the world's leading experts on meteorites.
And in November of 1948, a pulse of green meteors, or fireballs, started being seen over the Southwest.
It lasted until about January of 1949.
I just reread this chapter, and what we're dealing with in Colorado seems like history all over again.
Déjà vu all over again.
And I'm looking forward to hearing what Michael Kurta has to describe for us tonight.
And also, I guess it should be said that Linda was on Dreamland Sunday and consulted with an astronomer who assured her we are not in the middle presently of any sort of said meteor shower or anything like that that would explain what is going on.
That's right.
I heard that report and was delighted by Linda's focusing in on this subject because It is clear that something other than a natural phenomenon is almost certainly taking place here.
That's a pretty strong statement.
The only remaining thing is to get to the bottom of what's going on.
That's a pretty strong statement, Peter.
It is a strong statement, Art, and it's based on a lot of other people who have been saying the same thing about these fireballs for a long time.
There are a number of characteristics That we look for up here at the National UFO Reporting Center when we get a fireball report that help us establish whether it's just a prosaic meteor.
And let me say parenthetically, Art, that I'm fully aware that the Earth is hit by about 10 to the 12th meteors every day.
Every day of the week.
That's a lot of meteors.
The overwhelming majority of them are much, much smaller than a grain of sand.
Occasionally there are sizable ones, and Linda brought that out in her report on Dreamland.
But it appears to me, for a host of technical reasons that I'd prefer not to reveal to our audience quite yet, it appears to me that we're dealing with something other than just the classic rock coming in from space.
Alright.
Alright, do you want to go ahead with that audio report?
Is there enough time?
Let me play just about 20 or 30 seconds of what was reported to us just about two and a half hours ago by this young woman.
Out in Colorado Springs, regarding what she had to say, and I don't know how long it goes, Art, it's unedited.
That's all right.
About 20 or 30 seconds is what I think will play.
That's fine, go ahead.
What did you see, please?
Well, I was just sitting in our house, in Colorado Springs, in the Garden of the Gods, on the west side, in Pikes Peak, and there's kind of like a mesa ridge, where there's some condos across from us, and then another open field, and all of a sudden I saw this huge Uh-huh.
bluish turquoise bluish most incredible color I've ever seen
light coming jetting out of the sky I mean it was just dropping down at a pretty high speed
but it seemed like it slowed up as it came closer and instead of just like vanishing
like how a meteorite or a falling star that you've seen you know they shoot or they're small and they disappear at
a certain height this thing just kept on coming down towards
it looked like the back side of these condos the roof and we're about maybe a city block away from these
condos on another mesa Uh-huh.
So it was relatively close to our place, but the color of this glowing light, and it stayed blue the whole street coming down, remained glowing.
How long, what time did you see it, please?
At 8, around 8, about 8.35, honey, was it?
Yeah, about 15.
Ten, fifteen minutes ago.
Ten, okay.
And, um, the weirdest thing about it is, like, I've seen a thousand meteorites and, or whatever, stars all my life, and I've never in my life seen anything like this.
That's what she reported to us.
Okay.
It was about the size of a full moon, she estimates.
That's gigantic.
Yes, it is.
And the interesting thing is, later in my report, I asked her if it changed colors.
Right.
And she said, no, it didn't.
It kept the same color.
That's very unusual for a classic meteorite, is my experience.
As they slow down, they cool down very quickly, and that changes the color of incandescence, of course.
Did you get any other reports at the UFO Reporting Center on this?
We have not.
We've received only one, but I think Michael Kurta will tell us more about that here in the near future.
All right, well, let's bring him on.
Michael, what's going on in Colorado?
Boy, I don't know, but something sure is going on.
It might be appropriate that we jump back in time a little bit to start out with our first sighting on the 10th of January, and it all kind of ties into this.
So if we can, let's go back to the 10th of January.
Sure.
And that was the start of it, and apparently just before midnight on the evening of January 10th, the morning of January 11th, Peter actually received this call from the Summit County Sheriff's Office.
reported a blue fireball, and Summit County is due west of Denver, the Breckenridge area of Colorado, right along I-70.
Shortly thereafter, Colorado Springs Police Department also called, reporting the same thing.
What's interesting about this is, the report from the Springs, and also the other reports that we got from individuals down in the Springs that had called us, They stated that this object came out of the southwest and was heading northeast, which is very unusual for meteors.
As you know, they usually come out of the northeast.
They reported it went right over the city.
There was an incredible sonic boom that was heard.
We've gotten reports from a lady here that Peter reported to me that Had stuff knocked off shelves because of the sonic boom.
Edward Burke, one of our section directors down in the Springs, called me and stated while he did not see the object, he certainly heard the sonic boom and it was quite loud.
Immediately on the heels of this, three helicopters took off from Fort Carson Army Base, which is located on the southern side of Colorado Springs, in between Peterson Air Force Base and Cheyenne Mountain.
And they were flying blacked out, headed northeast in the general direction that this object went.
They had no running lights on them whatsoever, witnesses tell us.
And Jack Murphy, the curator of the Natural History Museum here in Denver, who's been trying to find a piece of this so-called meteor, laid down a hundred square mile footprint over the black forest area.
Which is north and east of Colorado Springs, which is about a 40 square mile area of a very hilly and densely wooded area where he believes this object came down.
Apparently this woman that has her son, I believe it is, had contacted Peter last Sunday and Peter immediately called me about it and we've been trying to follow up with him ever since without any real luck.
That was a good report that he sent us, I think.
Very good report.
And we're trying to follow up with him on that to find out, he believes that this object came down somewhere in the Black Forest area also, and apparently drove out to the area where they think it came down, and ran into some military personnel that had the area cordoned off.
Oh, really?
And Peter, maybe you can refresh my memory here, I can pull up your email quick and look at it, but I believe that they stated that military personnel had the area blocked off, Said that they were doing some type of contamination testing.
What?
That's correct.
In the area.
I want to know what kind of contamination testing that was.
When did the military start doing contamination testing at random in public areas?
And this individual has photos.
We're looking forward to it.
Oh, we're going to get photos?
I hope so.
Well, bless his heart.
Bless the heart of anybody with a camera when this kind of thing is going on.
All right, gentlemen, hold on.
We are at the bottom of the hour.
My guests are Peter Davenport, director of the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
And Michael J. Curta, who is State Director of Colorado's Move On.
The reason they're here is because something is coming down over the skies of Colorado tonight.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
tonight on the presentation of coast to coast a m from february twenty six
nineteen ninety eight the
the the
the You're listening to Ark Bells Somewhere In Time, tonight
featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 3rd, 2017.
By the way, let me mention, with regard to those photographs that I told you about at the beginning of the program, they are now safely in many hands.
For anybody out there thinking that they might like to lay their hands on them, wouldn't be any good.
too late alright back now to the subject of the skies above colorado
repeated haven't worked to director of the seattle ufo reporting
center michael j kurta
state director of uh... colorado's move on Gentlemen, you're both back on the air again.
Thank you.
Thank you.
If we pick up where we left off, we were talking about the sighting of late evening on January 10th, early morning on January 11th, and this gentleman again reports that This area in the Black Forest was cordoned off and he specifically says by Air Force personnel and stated that they were turned around and told to leave the area and when they asked why they were told that the area was undergoing some contamination research.
The people in the car with him report that it smelled like a combination of rotten eggs and cotton candy in the area.
Sulfur.
Sulfur.
Which is unusual.
I've talked to a couple of people, and somebody's told me that JP4 jet fuel has a very sickening sweet smell to it.
Art, being in the Air Force, can you confirm that?
No.
No, okay.
I cannot.
I'm sorry, I was a medic.
I got close, but I don't recall the specific odor.
Okay, well, at any rate, on that same night, at just about eight minutes after midnight, a local Denver area police officer reports out on patrol reports that he saw this object come across the Denver metro area headed northeast, reported a large blue fireball, and just about a minute later, a paramedic who was only six blocks from my house reported it going right over his car while he was traveling on a road here.
And again, headed northeast away from Denver.
Then we jump ahead to January 27th.
We have another report.
A commercial airline pilot flying over southern Wyoming at high noon reports, quote, a ball of flame trailing smoke past his aircraft.
He reported to the FAA that this ball of flame Uh, created turbulence on his aircraft.
Wow.
And, uh, that's really unusual.
He had to be fairly close to that thing if he, uh, experienced some turbulence.
Way, way too close, I'm sure, in his opinion.
I'm, I'm sure.
And, um, we haven't been able to get any more reports on that, but again, it sounds like another object inferred to be seen at high noon, uh, in the, in the daylight sky is, is kind of unusual also.
Brings back the, uh, I believe it was Texas.
They caught some videotape a while back of an object during the daylight hours coming in.
El Paso.
El Paso.
Well, now while we were on the phone here during the break, Peter got another call from Colorado here.
A person reporting that it was seen over Loveland, Colorado, which is due north of Denver, just south of Fort Collins.
And also over Parker, Colorado.
May I stop and ask you a question?
Peter, this report you just now got, did they give a duration of sighting?
No, they didn't provide that.
In fact, we took two calls, Art.
And whereas we started off this program with fresh news, we've got fresher news still.
Because over the break, we had this young woman call from Colorado, as Michael just reported.
I think she's in Loveland, but she reported citing reports from Loveland and Parker, Colorado.
That's up in the north end of the state, if I'm not mistaken.
Please correct me, Michael.
Yeah, Loveland is, and Parker is the very southeast edge of the Denver metro area.
Okay.
But in addition to that, Art, we took a call from one of your listeners out in Tennessee, who called here at the UFO Reporting Center a second time.
He and I had chatted about a week or week and a half ago, and he said, Peter, I'm calling to let you know that what I saw Over Tennessee, about 10 days ago, sounds very similar to what is being reported over the program tonight, Art.
So it may not be limited or restricted to Colorado.
This gentleman is a private investigator, former military.
He sounds very, very serious-minded, very eloquent.
He's a private investigator out there, so he's probably a very good observer.
Okay, do either one of you want to hazard a guess as to what we're going through right now?
I wouldn't have any idea.
It doesn't sound like a meteor shower to me.
You know, we have the, what is it, the Percedes meteor shower that's, what, December and ends in January.
But generally, again, those come out of the northeast.
You can see those in the northeast sky.
Right.
And again, all these reports state that it was traveling from the southwest to the northeast.
And people that I know at Space Command here in Colorado Springs tell me that that's very unusual for a meteorite to come out of that direction.
And they were thinking more along the lines that this is some type of a space junk.
Well, that occurred to me.
Or even a re-entering satellite that might have had some, based on what the military said, some sort of fuel on board that could have been a contaminant I mean I'm just guessing grabbing at straws here but sure and I am too and one other thing about the the sighting back on the the 11th in this black forest area this is a very unusual area and we've gotten some other bizarre reports out of there we have a couple of unconfirmed reports from people that you know sound like good credible people and and we're concerned that
Report a building out in the middle of nowhere that looks like an old outhouse.
And they see military vehicles pull up and a couple of people in military uniforms will get out and go into this outhouse and not come out for several hours.
Now, unless they have some type of an intestinal problem, that doesn't make any sense.
They've tried to open the door on this thing and they cannot open the door.
And for what it's worth, again, this seems like a very unusual area, this black forest area.
So that's another weird one out of that area.
Weird is right.
Yeah.
Now, if we jump forward to tonight's sighting, and Peter called me moments after he talked to this gal in the Springs, and she also called here, and I wasn't able to talk to her.
But we immediately got on the phone and started making some phone calls and here's what we've come up with from tonight.
I was able to contact a couple of the TV stations down in the Colorado Springs area and the police department.
When I talked to the police department they sounded very busy and weren't able to give me a whole lot of information.
They said they'd had just a couple of calls on this and it was a blue light in the sky and thank you very much and hung up.
Again, the news stations that I talked to down there said that they had gotten a few calls on this and they were following up with it and probably would have something on their morning news show.
Immediately after that, I started checking and right before the 10 o'clock hour here in Denver, I started talking to our stations here in the Denver metro area where I'm at.
NBC tells me, and they had a lot of information for me, they tell me they got at least 15 from the Denver metro area, one from the Eldora area, which is a ski resort northwest of Boulder in the mountains.
Again, a lady up there reported a large blue fireball came past her location.
They also had multiple reports from all over metro area, but they said that they were mostly concentrated on the east side of the Denver metro area.
Talking to our CBS affiliate, Basically, they said they have got some calls, but they didn't have time to talk because it was news time, and certainly we understand that.
You're up against the clock.
You guys don't think these were meteors, do you?
At first, when I first heard this one from the Springs and listening to Jack Murphy here, who I know and the curator at the Museum of Natural History in Denver, I was believing what he said, that he thought it was a meteor, and he certainly launched a full search for this.
And it's been on the news multiple times here, begging people to call him if they find this in their fields and things like that.
Sure.
And, you know, I was saying, okay, it's just a meteor.
But now that all these events are coming one right after another, it just doesn't seem right now that we're getting these other indications here.
The military down in the Black Forest area, things getting knocked off the shelves, they're coming from the wrong direction.
Something doesn't, you know, jive here.
So I don't know what to think of it.
You know, it could be space junk.
I believe we had, what they say, a rocket re-entry there over Seattle some time back.
Peter, you reported on that on our show, I believe.
Yeah, the 14th of November, Friday night, and we now think we have evidence that there were, in fact, three groups of objects over the Northwest that night.
One that went over Surrey, British Columbia, a second group of seven disks That we're minutes later seen over Sandpoint, Idaho, and a group over Kaiser, Oregon, about 200 miles to the south.
So, we, just a little interjection there, Michael, we think that the events on the 14th of November, my opinion is that it had nothing to do with space junk.
With space junk.
Alright, well look, we can also look back, as you mentioned, El Paso, a big event.
A good half kiloton explosion according to the astronomer we had on Sunday.
And then there's the Greenland event that is in the full kiloton range.
And now we've got this flurry of reports like we're having right now tonight in Colorado.
And there's no meteor shower to account for all of this.
The astronomers are telling us nothing.
So, what's coming to Earth?
What is coming to Earth?
And if these are bolides or meteors, then should we expect a big surprise to come soon?
One has to ask oneself.
Certainly, and boy, I for one hope not.
If the one that this lady described tonight was truly the size of a full moon and seen for four minutes, God help us if it hit somewhere, and I'm sure we would have We would have known about it by now if we would have felt it if it came down somewhere around here, or if it was that big, we wouldn't be talking on the radio, I don't believe.
I'd like to jump in here for a second.
You asked our opinions earlier on what it is we're dealing with.
I'd like to preface by saying everything is preliminary at this point.
From my experience, I'm sure Michael is the same way.
It sometimes takes days, weeks, or months to get to the bottom of an event like this.
So everything we say is preliminary.
But as Michael pointed out, the object was coming from the wrong direction.
It was coming forth to have been a likely meteorite.
Since the Earth is moving, I think it's about 60 miles a second, as it rotates around the Sun, most of the meteorites come from the leading edge of the Earth.
Sure.
This object was coming from the other direction.
The color is another issue.
Yes, meteorites, even space junk to a degree, can be blue But, as I pointed out, I think, early in the program, they are apt to change color.
Traditionally, not always, I presume.
Well, usually, the space junk, or even a meteorite or buoy, would be made of different materials, and as it burned, it would change color, because you burn one material, you get orange, you burn another, you get blue, and so forth, yeah.
Exactly, and again, all these have been reported as blue, And it was blue over Colorado Springs, and 70 miles later over Denver, it was still blue.
Something strange is going on, and I don't have a good handle on it, and I don't believe Peter does yet either, but hopefully we'll come up with something.
Alright, gentlemen, listen.
Peter, you have my phone number, my private line.
Michael, or give it to Michael if he doesn't have it.
I do.
And either one of you, feel free to interrupt the remainder of the program if anything else occurs tonight.
Okay.
You bet we'll do, Art.
Is that alright?
That sounds fine.
If I can add something here real quick.
Sure.
I tried calling NORAD.
We usually have pretty good communications with NORAD here.
They've called us on some things, referred people to us on things, and I've called them for information and they're They're generally, while they don't give you a whole lot of information, they do answer your questions to the best of their ability.
Tonight, when I tried calling, I got absolutely no answer at Cheyenne Mountain.
No answer?
No answer.
Not even a tape machine?
Nothing.
Now whether they were not answering their phone because of this and they were getting too many calls, I don't know.
I also, you may or may not know, about a mile from me here, we have a huge downlink facility for Falcon Air Force Base, which is a satellite control facility, Cheyenne Mountain and the Space Command.
And I can look out my window and see the huge, we have like eight geodesic domes here that's the downlink for this.
And I also tried calling the Space Command and also got no answer.
What?
And that just strikes me as really odd.
I have to, and again, assuming here that they just were inundated with calls and decided not to answer, but I tried multiple times and nobody answered the phone.
No voicemail, no anything.
And let me guess, we'll hear from them that they took no phone calls tomorrow in a press release.
And I can believe that.
One other thing I'd cite just briefly, Art, is on the 14th of November, People made hash out of the fact that this stuff that went over the Northwest broke up into pieces, they alleged, and that was consistent with space junk.
This object did not, tonight, from our preliminary reports.
We'd like to learn more from people who may have seen that object, either over email or telephone report.
All right, give your phone number out, Peter.
Yeah, the National UFO Reporting Center hotline is area code 206-722-3000.
Up to midnight tonight would be fine, Pacific time, or they may call any time after 8 a.m.
tomorrow morning.
What about you, Michael?
Any number you want to give out?
Sure, our office number here in Colorado is 303-451-5992, and that's 24 hours a day, and someone will answer your call, or you can leave a message like Peter's if no one's available.
All right, gentlemen, thank you both.
Feel free to interrupt if you have breaking news.
All right, Art.
Very good.
Take care.
So there you have it, folks.
Peter Davenport, UFO Reporting Center.
Michael J. Curtis, a director of Colorado's MUFON.
There's stuff coming down in Colorado tonight.
Very strange.
Strange indeed.
Do any of you out there remember a period of time When we have had this kind of flurry of large objects entering our atmosphere.
And I say objects because as far as I'm concerned until somebody finds a meteorite or a bolide or something, we don't know what the hell these are.
And grasping out and grabbing the word meteorite and just slamming it down on anything that creates a streak or a fireball across the sky is crazy.
And I'm not going to do it.
These are objects entering our atmosphere.
By the way, the good staff at Nightline in Washington, D.C.
decided to initiate a fax war earlier tonight and attempted to fax me all of the faxes that they received at Nightline.
And before I stopped the machine from running, I did get 26 or so, and I want to compliment those who wrote Nightline.
They were very polite, reasonable, articulate faxes that were sent, at least the ones that I saw.
And my hope is that instead of getting angry about the usage of their fax machine, Nightline would consider The story.
And by the way, that is about what we're going to be up to here in the next hour.
We are going to consider the Mars Mariner story from a different perspective, specifically that of Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel.
So, that's ahead.
While we sit on this information with regard to Colorado, And we'll keep you up to date as the night progresses on that if there is any more to report.
But something weird is going on out there.
And then I've got this other thing I'm sitting on.
These photographs.
Mama never said it would be easy from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Stay tuned.
It's going to get hot as the night continues.
These gentlemen will be professors.
We'll be speaking about Uh, the Mars mission.
It comes up next.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
I can't survive, I can't save a life, without your love.
Oh baby, don't leave me this way.
I can't accept, I'll surely miss your tender kiss
Don't leave me this way I'll surely miss your tender kiss
Don't leave me this way Don't leave me this way
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time. The night's program originally aired February 26th,
1998.
In a moment, we are going to continue the discussion about the Mars Mariner mission, but this time with Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley B. McDaniel.
They'll be up in a moment and we'll hear the other side of, I think, of this question about
the mariners' imaging of the Cydonia region.
Now comes Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, author of The Martian Enigmas, PhD in Electrical Engineering,
Carnegie Mellon University, assistant adjunct professor, Boston University, 81 through 83,
Division Staff Analyst, Analytic Sciences Corporation, 83 through 94.
Currently a Senior Staff Scientist at the Pacific Sierra Research Corporation.
Author of over 50 papers in scientific anomalies, digital image processing, pattern recognition, remote sensing, and other areas.
Senior member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, a full member of the Society for Scientific Exploration.
So, he's a heavyweight.
So is Professor Stanley V. McDaniel, author of the McDaniel Report on the Martian Anomalies, 1993, co-editor The Case for the Face, 1998.
Professor Emeritus and former Chairman of the Department of Philosophy, Sonoma State University, Roanoke Park, California.
Founding Vice President of the Foundation for Critical Thinking, Teacher of Logic, Critical Thinking, Philosophy of Science, and Ethics at the University level now for over 30 years.
Two heavyweights.
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
Let's have Dr. Carlotto, if you would just say a word or two so we can identify your voice.
This is not TV.
Good morning or good evening.
How are you?
Just fine.
And Professor McDaniel.
Yes, and I have to thank Mark for staying up until two in the morning over in Boston.
All right, gentlemen, I take it that in part Why you're here tonight is in response to the program done with Richard Hoagland with regard to the Mariner mission, the imaging of the Cydonia area, and that you thought that he had some of it, or think he has some of it, wrong.
And so, how do you want to make your case?
Well, if I jump in here, is that okay, Mark?
Sure, go ahead.
We're not directly commenting on whatever Mr. Hoagland said because I myself didn't hear that program, but we have heard both from reports on your show and also with people sending us inquiries That there's been a lot of concern about the possibility that the camera on the Mars Global Surveyor was going to be turned off.
Correct.
So we wanted to try to clarify that and talk a little bit about that and about what people might be able to do to encourage proper use of the cameras.
Turned off specifically during a best opportunity type deal for imaging Cydonia.
Mark would want to comment on that.
He's been doing a lot of work on the orbit of the Global Surveyor and where it is when.
Maybe Mark could take that.
Professor?
I think, Art, there's been a lot of confusion on both sides.
Currently, Global Surveyor is in an arrow-breaking orbit.
And it has limited time, or it has had limited time to take pictures.
And some pictures have been released on the internet that have been really remarkable pictures.
Right.
What's happening now is the orbit is shrinking.
It's getting smaller, and they have less time available in the orbit to do science.
Okay.
In addition, Mars is close to going behind the Sun.
It's called a solar conjunction.
And when it's behind the Sun, this will happen in May, it's not possible to communicate with the spacecraft.
And as it approaches the Sun, because of radio noise, you can send less data.
What's happening now is we're entering a period where it's not really optimal for doing a lot of image gathering.
And this is just a natural result of the way the mission is set up.
There's nothing unusual about it.
It's, in fact, been predicted.
But what's going to happen when it comes out of the solar conjunction, it's going to be, in fact, out of this aerobraking orbit and in a very good orbit to take pictures Of just about any target on the planet, including Cydonia.
When would that be?
Well, it actually comes out of aerobraking the end of March, and from the end of March through the fall, sometime in September, it'll be in a position, I don't mean in a fixed position, it's in an orbit, that it'll allow many, it'll essentially fly over any point on the planet.
Over that period of time.
And in a few weeks, we'll be able to predict that orbit.
You know, NASA will have these orbital predictions as well.
And what we hope to do is be able to identify when the Cydonia image opportunities occur, because these are, of course, the ones that we're interested in, and try to announce them ahead of time so that, you know, everyone will be ready.
Everyone will know when they occur.
Because it turns out one actually did occur back in October.
Because back in October, Global Surveyor was in, actually when Global Surveyor got to Mars in September this past year, it went into an aerobraking orbit.
And it came out after about a month because it ran into a lot of atmospheric drag.
It almost tore off one of the solar panels, as you may recall.
Yes.
May we confirm a couple of things?
Sure.
Is it true, as it seems to be prescribed on Dr. Malin's website, that the camera is either already turned off or is about to be turned off?
It's off now.
It's off now.
According to the latest NASA or JPL release, I should mention that right now the Global Surveyor is only able to take equatorial pictures around the equator of the planet and not up north where Cydonia would be.
Right.
The thing about the idea that this was going to be an optimum time or a perfect time to take the photos, actually I think if Mark will agree, if it comes The camera will be off until late March and then they'll turn all the instruments back on again.
Okay, well I can't speak for Richard Hoagland, but I do want to interject so that we're clear.
I think Richard thought that about mid-March there would be an optimal opportunity to get to Cydonia images.
And Mark, what about that?
Yeah, well, there's no way to predict that at this point because In the error-breaking orbit, it changes every orbit because they're going through the atmosphere.
And depending on how much drag they hit, it changes the orbital period.
It's very hard to predict exactly where they'll be the next orbit or in five orbits.
It's not a very good situation.
Once they come out of the atmosphere, it's in an orbit where they can predict over a long period of time where it's going to be.
Which they'll do in late March.
In late March, we'll be able to set up these orbital models and be able to predict in March and April and May and so forth when the opportunities will exist.
But you can't do that right now.
It's not possible.
Richard suggested that the orbit is now somewhat elliptical, that it's at the low point about 150 miles and at the high point, I think, about 300 miles.
No, actually, it's a lot more than that.
About 73 miles at the low point.
Oh my.
And let's see, I have it here somewhere.
It's 14,566 miles at the high point.
Oh my.
Yeah.
Alright, well then certainly at the low point the pictures would be astounding if they could image at that time.
Well in fact, in October when they were in this They were error-breaking earlier and in the fall they ran into the atmospheric drag problem and stopped error-breaking for a month.
And they were in an elliptical orbit like they'll be.
It was a larger elliptical orbit than they will be shortly.
But there were imaging opportunities.
In fact, one occurred on October 29th and it would have yielded images about a meter or two in resolution.
It would have been an incredible picture.
Provided they took the opportunity to take it.
But we don't know, because such a small number of photographs have been released.
Yeah, I'd like to mention on that, if I may.
The NASA data management plan, under which Malin is an assignee, says that after six months following after acquisition of data, the data must be released.
And we're just coming up on that six-month time from October.
So if the public wants to, and if NASA does, they should be able to get everything that Malin's taken up to and including October.
And if there's any photos of the Cydonia area, we should be able to see them then.
Are you gentlemen comfortable with the fact that, though Dr. Malin is administering, what shall happen with the photography, with the imaging?
That just as a general rule, not with respect just to Dr. Malin, but that all of these things are withheld for a half year with this contract deal.
Do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea?
Well, I'm very uncomfortable with it.
It is true.
If you read the data management plan, there's provisions for any data of considerable public interest.
It has to be released within seven days of acquisition.
Of course, how you define considerable public interest is open to question, although with the Cydonia area, I think there's a pretty general agreement from the public pressure.
But no, I personally am not happy with that.
I'm even less happy with the whole idea of dumping the responsibility over onto a private contractor who, from what we can tell, NASA has very little control over Dr. Malin.
All right, I would like to ask you both this.
Professor Van Flanderen has said publicly that the public, or the world, had better prepare itself because he considers the odds of the face and the associated artifacts at Cydonia, the odds that they're natural, to be very slim indeed, and that would overturn a lot of paradigms Do either one or both of you agree that is a distinct possibility?
Mark, you just did a statistical study.
Do you want to go on that?
You know, people ask, what do you think the odds are?
And I did a fairly detailed study based on a lot of people's work over the years and
came up with odds between 100 to 1 and 100,000 to 1 in favor of artificiality.
So I would be, people ask me and I tell them I would be very surprised if these structures
turned out to be natural.
If they turn out to be natural, then there's always a possibility that we're looking at very strange geology here, but all the indicators, and there's well over a dozen independent pieces of evidence that point towards artificiality.
I should mention in the... I'm sorry, did I interrupt?
Not at all.
In the new book that, by the way, Art, is just coming out probably next week from Adventures Unlimited Press, The Case for the Face, there are articles by all the major researchers, including Dr. Carlotto's analysis of the statistics there.
Actually, there's three papers on statistical analysis.
One by Professor Strange, who's an archaeologist.
And one by Professors McDaniel and Crater on the Mound Geometry.
So we have three independent statistical tests that have been performed.
Dr. McDaniel?
Yes?
In your 200-page, well-footnoted document regarding NASA's repeated 20-year failures... Right.
...vis-a-vis Cydonia, titled the McDaniel Report, you continually question NASA's incredible series of coincidences that always seem to A steamy confirmation of what might be at Cydonia.
Therefore, it is somewhat curious that just prior to the first actual opportunity with a living, breathing spacecraft and camera in Mars orbit, that you suddenly are willing to accept What seems to be, to some, the most inane coincidence of all, that the camera, for technical reasons, must be turned off now, particularly disturbing in light of Dr. Webb's apparent, mystified reaction to Malin's announcement.
Well, actually, it wasn't anything sudden.
When we heard about the camera turn-off plan back a couple of weeks ago, I guess it was, that Malin put it on his page, All the scientists I work with on this were very disturbed.
Of course, we immediately thought, uh-oh, this is it.
They're going to turn it off.
I think Vince DiPietro was extremely upset.
He was, yes.
However, we bided our time waiting to get the details.
Lots of people called me and others saying, should we demonstrate?
Should we do this or that?
Right.
And I said, we'll just hang in a little while because we want to find out.
It turns out that they're probably going to be turning the cameras and everything back on right close to that optimal period you were talking about.
But it'll be close, right?
In other words, it could be past it.
And I think both of you gentlemen would have to agree that there is no guarantee With all the photos they're going to take, there's no guarantee they're going to get good images, the kind you both want.
Right.
Well, the thing is, it isn't going to be just one opportunity now.
From here on in after March, clear through to September, with the exception of about a month there in May, when the solar conjunction occurs, there will be multiple opportunities.
So that's what we're thinking of.
Let me mention our While the spacecraft is in this mode of the elliptical orbit, and there's a pause in the aerobraking and so on, they have the ability to rotate the spacecraft laterally, roll it, and that means that when they go near, within a certain number of degrees of the Cydonia area, they could actually roll the spacecraft and point it over, and they've done that, by the way, with other objects already.
When it gets down into the mapping orbit in 1999, around March or April 1999, they probably won't do that because then they have a mapping mission where the camera is supposed to cover a certain area in a regular pattern.
Yes.
So this is the optimal time in that sense.
Between that late March through to September, this is a marvelous time.
Because they have flexibility they also are further away from the planet so what happens is the field of view is larger and It's a lot harder to snap a three by three kilometer piece with the high-res camera Which is all they'll be able to do when they're in the mapping orbit later But right now they could roll it and get I think practically the whole area in question in one photo which would be terrific because the The resolution will still be very, very good compared to what we've already got.
Correct me, Mark, if I'm wrong about any of those facts.
No, you're exactly right.
I was going to interject a few minutes ago, but you pretty much covered it.
You know, the other thing I want to say, Art, is that it's in no one's interest to not take these pictures.
This would be like hitting the lottery for NASA.
You know what happened?
Since the very beginning.
Professor, you know what happens to a lot of people who hit the lottery?
Well, they go off the deep end.
It ruins their lives.
So that's really not a bad parallel.
I'm not exactly sure.
I mean, if we get good images and all of a sudden it turns out that these objects, as we believe, are not natural, it could indeed ruin our lives.
Well, no, look.
Maybe not yours.
In terms of a space program, not too many people are excited about spending a lot of money to send men to Mars to poke at rocks.
A robot spacecraft could do that quite well, as we've seen this past summer.
But the discovery of perhaps archaeological ruins on Mars would be a reason To send a manned mission and that would really energize the
space program. That's a NASA's best interest as a matter of fact
That's exactly what Carl Sagan has had to say on the subject responding here. So more rich. Yeah, there's a
very interesting political and economic possibility Connected with all this that does raise the issue as to
whether or not anybody is actually trying to prevent that from happening
All right, gentlemen, we're out of break here at the bottom Yeah, I was thinking I'll talk about it after the break.
All right, good. Hold on. We'll be right back to you. I'm Art Bell
This is coast to coast am you're listening to art bells somewhere inside on premier radio networks
Tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast am from February 26th
1998 Music playing...
My heart is on fire My soul's like a wheel that's turning My love is alive My love is alive, yeah, yeah
My heart is on fire My soul's like a wheel that's turning My heart is on fire My soul's like a wheel that's turning
My heart is on fire My soul's like a wheel that's turning you
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 26th, 1998.
Professors Carlotto and McDaniel are my guests right now, and we are discussing the Mariner
mission to image Mars, and we'll get right back to them.
Once again, Dr. Carlotto and Professor McDaniel.
Gentlemen, welcome back.
Yes.
Hello.
You wanted to pick up on something prior to the break?
Oh, well, I was going to say that during the writing of the McDaniel report, I puzzled over and over again.
I was trying very hard to avoid concluding that NASA was engaged in a conspiracy.
But at the same time there was this behavior that I refer to as peculiar or hard to explain.
And of course many people concluded from that behavior that there was a cover-up of some sort.
disappeared in pictures taken later and there were no such pictures and so on.
Tricks of shadow and lighting and so on.
Yeah, all of that and then ignoring the work of people like Dr. Carlotto
who showed conclusively that it was not a trick of light and shadow, all of that.
And then, repeatedly, Professor, NASA would make statements suggesting they were disinterested and would not image Cydonia.
You remember those days?
Sure, the whole mess of strange behavior.
Now a couple of things have happened since then that have led me to another possible Answer to that, and I thought if you don't mind, I would lay that out.
No, I would like you to, but I want to ask you, I guess directly, Professor, why you would trust an agency that you did seem to document in your own report lied to the American people, NASA, or is that an incorrect assessment?
Well, there were a couple of things that were certainly falsehoods, whether they were conscious, deliberate lies or not, I'm not entirely sure now.
Once the group from my research organization, I don't say mine, but ours, the SPSR, Society for Planetary Study Research, met with NASA last November, that was.
We were struck by several things.
One was their cordiality and their apparent sincerity.
All six of us and we included some pretty sharp diplomats who would detect, you know, strange behavior.
We all felt that we were getting a straight shot.
But one of the things that really struck us as interesting was that the people at NASA didn't seem to have ever seen or even known about the kind of research we were doing.
Dr. Carlotto can certainly confirm that.
That's a little hard to believe.
Yeah, it is.
It's pretty amazing.
Mark?
Not really, Art, because scientists in a particular discipline subscribe to only those journals for that discipline.
And the journals that are read by the planetary scientists have rejected our papers, papers by myself, Brian O'Leary, and others.
So what we've done over the years is we've published in other peer-reviewed journals that are outside of the planetary community, so they haven't read them.
But they're there, they've been reviewed, and they've gone through the same scrutiny that their own publications have, but just simply in different journals.
Dr. Boyce, who was there at the meeting, Joseph Boyce, who's a planetary scientist, I believe he's in charge of a lunar mission right now.
He was at the meeting and Dr. Horace Crater put before him one of Mark Carlotto's very fine enhancements of the whole Cydonia area.
It's the one that's on the cover of his new edition of his book, in fact, The Color Enhancement.
He pointed out that Dr. Boyce just kept looking at it for the whole hour we were there, like he'd never seen anything that good before.
So there was that, and then I began thinking.
There are a lot of contracts going to geologists right now who more or less control the JPL missions in terms of the plan for the next 10 years.
They're all oriented toward robot missions, putting together little piles of rocks, and if that sequence of missions were disturbed, a lot of contracts that are presently going to geology research might be dropped and others shifted over to, for example, Houston for a manned mission.
And it struck me that it's possible that there's some kind of economic reason behind the fight here almost between certain small group of people, possibly associated with the Planetary Society more than with JPL or NASA directly, and the NASA administrators.
I'm not sure, this is just speculation, but it struck me as another possible solution.
Now what I'd like to mention is that that seems partly supported by Dr. Malin's webpages because he has stuff on there that we consider apparent disinformation and deliberate disinformation it appears to be.
Oh really?
One of the worst ones is the... You see, this is why I have a problem.
In other words, you have definite doubts about NASA.
I could document them in the past.
You wrote them, so you know what they are.
Right.
And now you're saying disinformation on Malin's site.
Well, he's the guy in charge of the imaging.
Right.
It's got to be asked, why do you trust Well, he's a private contractor that in some sense seems to have gone maverick, as far as I can tell, from JPL.
I spoke recently with Glenn Cunningham at JPL and I wasn't given very comfortable assurances that they had much control over what Malin was doing.
I believe they ultimately have control through contract, but they have to be highly motivated to rein him in perhaps.
Well, that's out of control.
Well, his webpages are very, very disturbing and so that partly supports my perception that possibly there's some kind of attempt to hang on to a set of contracts.
Now, we hope to possibly talk to Dr. Malin about this.
I've made initiatives to JPL to see if we can actually get in there and talk to him and see if we can clear up some of these things.
Possibly get clarification as to why he still got some of this misinformation on his webpage.
I don't know how that's going to go.
That's only been within the last week that we've made that move.
So I hope that happens and if so I'd be happy to report what transpires.
I would very much like to have Dr. Malin on the program.
That would be marvelous.
I don't think you're going to get him.
I don't either.
I'd even stay up to listen.
You'd stay up to listen.
Yeah, go ahead.
All right, well, I have this question for the both of you.
If the remainder of the mission goes by, and it's going to be some time, of course, until that occurs, and at the end of the day, we have no definitive Cydonia region imaging, what will your positions be?
Well, one of the greatest scientific disasters of all time has just occurred.
Yeah, everyone will have lost out.
Perhaps one could view NASA's behavior, or I should say, Malin and JPL's behavior as
self-serving, because as Stan pointed out, they have this series of missions planned
to go back and land missions and do sample returns and so forth.
And that would be totally, that whole sequence would be, the need for it would be obviated
by discovering artificial structures on Mars.
But in the long term, it would be self-defeating, because again, that's the reason why we're
You know, it's the big picture.
Well, maybe yes, maybe no.
Those who think that there have been lies told conclude there, or even know, conclude there will be more lies told, maybe images taken that we will not get to see.
And we talked about the, you know, winning the lottery earlier.
I would remind you both of the Brookings report.
So, sure, there's lots of reason to say, oh look, We now know that somebody else has been there.
We've got to send men.
That's one approach.
The other is, they already know that somebody's been there.
Well, there may have been pictures taken in October, and they're trying like the heck to figure out what to do about them.
That's one possibility.
You know, Carl Sagan has called for them to take new photos of Cydonia.
In his last book, before he passed away.
Gentlemen, you know, it sounds to me like the both of you trust NASA about as far as Richard Hoagland could throw them.
I think that there may be two factions.
In fact, we got that feeling that there's two views going on in NASA right now.
There are scientists who are very interested in what we might find there and want to get the data, and in fact, who respect our work.
And there are others who of course think it's nonsense or for other reasons such as the ones I just mentioned may not want that to happen.
So there may be a very strong internal conflict.
I mentioned what I think would be one of the best things the public could do at this point if I may.
Well, let me tell you what we did do.
As you well know, we directed faxes toward Dan Golden, ABC News Nightline, and CNN.
they're they're fighting with me about that now and uh... cnn
uh... now the intent
was to have been golden uphold his promise of imaging cydonia every opportunity
Right.
And to put pressure on from Dan Golden to Dr. Malin.
I take it that in a general sense you don't object to that?
Oh, of course not.
I think it would be very effective if people were to, first of all, wait until we find out what the orbits are going to be As Mark pointed out, we'll be able to make those determinations shortly after the aerobraking stops in late March.
Then there will be information on all the webpages, I imagine, including probably Mr. Hoagland's webpage, about which days and hours these orbits are about to take place.
And prior to those crucial orbits, then the pressure from the public may help to to encourage Dr. Malin to do what he ought to be doing.
How confident are the two of you, professors, that if images are received showing Cydonia
to be not at all natural, that they would be released immediately to the public?
I think they're probably not going to be able to do that.
The enhancements that Dr. Carlotto and Vince DiPietro and some others have done are about
what we think we're going to see if we get about that good resolution.
Because the enhancement processes that are used are fairly reliable and roughly emulate
what you would see at those resolutions.
If that's what we get, then what have we got?
We have stronger evidence if that's all we get, but then those can be enhanced and we
might actually begin to see detail beyond that.
I mean, what have we got to get?
Eyelashes?
Well, actually, Dr. Strange, who's the archaeologist in our group, has projected what we might predict based on archaeological and cultural projections.
That's going to be in one of the articles in the book I mentioned.
He, for example, said we should find further examples of geometrical shapes similar to the ones we've already found.
That's the type of thing that might be found, and you can predict, perhaps, what will happen.
I think you mentioned, or it was mentioned to me on the earlier program, this thing about Malin saying, if it still looks like a face, then nothing will be settled.
Yeah.
That raised suspicions that he actually had a photo, because he may have taken one in October and it still looked like a face, and so then he had to try to cover him.
Well, I hate to say this, or maybe I don't, but with the exception of the difference tonight's show versus the show we did with Hoagland the other night, Hoagland suggested there would be an ideal imaging opportunity mid-March.
You seem to disagree with that.
Not true.
Not true?
Not true.
So there is a good opportunity mid-March in all likelihood?
No, no.
That there is not.
That cannot be predicted.
Over the next six months, there will be opportunities.
And in about a month or so, we'll be able to begin to tell you when they are.
And then we can track those.
Now, in a month or so, if you were to find that indeed mid-March presented an ideal opportunity, And that, um, uh-oh, there's not going to be opportunities.
Then, um... And you're not going to take the pictures?
Yeah.
Or, I mean, you're already suspicious.
You're already suggesting to me that Malin may have a photograph in his hand based on what he said.
I'm sorry, but I'm suspicious.
All right, let me give you another scenario.
The way this whole, uh, NASA and subcontractor arrangement is set up and Stan may not agree with me on this point, but it's really the perfect sort of setup for Malin to operate clandestinely because he has said in statements in the paper that he sees pictures that no one else on his staff has seen and no one at JPL sees these pictures because the downlink goes directly to him.
So he's the only person In some cases, that we'll see a photograph.
God!
Who pays for all this?
Which is pretty amazing.
The point is... Who pays for all this?
Well, we all do.
But the point is this, that this is a perfect opportunity for them to take some preview images.
This is not the highest resolution situation.
We're looking at images that are probably more like 10 meters rather than a meter in resolution, so you won't be seeing eyelashes, but you're going to be getting confirming pictures.
This is a perfect opportunity to take those preview images, clandestinely, if you want.
I'll use that term.
I don't like to use it, but let me use it.
So that these things can be reviewed offline, and NASA can then figure out what they're going to do with it.
Golding can look at these pictures and say, yeah, this is what I need to pitch a manned program to Mars.
And he can line up his ducks.
Perhaps like he did with the meteorite announcement back two years ago.
All right, but here's a hard question for you in the middle of that.
If that would be his attitude or NASA's attitude, then why, when they had the earlier pictures that we got of Mars showing the face, weren't they whooping it up because Of the exact reason that you just stated?
Well, gee, it will fund a manned mission to Mars.
Because they're not good enough.
They're not conclusive.
Yeah, well, not only that.
NASA has consistently shown that it either can or won't perform the types of experiments on the face and on other objects that were necessary in order to make these determinations.
They were tossed off as irrelevant quite some time ago.
So that the higher levels of NASA just, I think, took that for granted.
Right.
And let it go at that.
But administrations change.
And perhaps, I'm not saying that this is true or I believe in it, but it's an alternative scenario.
And it gives them a way of offline looking at these pictures and sort of figuring it out.
Giving them a little, you know, a little breathing room rather than having things coming in real time and having to think, you know, on their feet, you know, what's going on here.
If I was in possession of photographs that showed this object was not at all natural, I would think very, very hard before I released them.
There's also an international protocol about such discovery and it does require confirmation through Various scientific channels before release to the public, although it also requires release to the public after that's done.
And it may be that they would follow that protocol also.
I think if I'm right about the possibility that there's an economic motivation behind this, another thing that could happen is they could work out a solution whereby the economics that they were counting on are still maintained and at the same time they have release.
So that's also a possibility.
At least there are some of us now talking with NASA people, which has never happened before.
Professor McDaniel, on page 166 of your report, you referred to a Michigan congressman.
Who discovered an official NASA memo issued by the director of the NASA Lewis Center in Ohio instructing NASA employees on the particulars of exactly how to lie to members of the public, Congress, and the press.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Of course, now that official is now gone.
Golden's a different party, but the sad thing about that was that that inquiry was then dropped.
Well, Professor, people come and go, but policies generally remain.
Well, I hope not in this case.
Well, I must say, this has been truly an intriguing hour, and the moment that either one of you have anything else to contribute, I would hope that you would immediately get hold of me.
Oh, we most certainly will, Art.
And I will get you on there.
And should either one of you have the opportunity to speak with Dr. Malin, tell him I'm looking for him.
I'll mention your name the first thing.
Okay.
Thank you very much for having us on.
Gentlemen, good night.
Good night to you.
Okay, that's it, folks.
We're about to head into a open line segment.
You just heard Dr. Mark Carlotto and Professor Stanley McDaniel.
Frankly, I expected the majority of what Richard Hoagland said to be refuted.
But if I was listening carefully, and I think I was, check me on this, With the exception of the disagreement over the mid-March ideal opportunity to image, I could just about take this hour and transpose it right on top of Richard Hoagland's interview.
But maybe I got it wrong.
I don't think so.
From the high desert, this This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere Inside.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
This is a trailer for the game.
Looking out for a place to go.
Where to play the right music.
Getting in the swing.
Music, getting in between, you come to love the things.
Anybody could be that guy, Not as young as music, high.
With a bit of rock music, everything's fine.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
A night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
Well, good morning, everybody.
It has been quite a couple of hours.
In the first hour, we had Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, and Michael J. Curtis, the State Director of Colorado MUFON.
There are fireballs coming down all over the place this night, tonight, in Colorado.
One fireball, blue in color, was seen for a period exceeding four minutes.
Impossible for a meteorite or bolide streaking across the sky, one was seen coming down directly, blue in color.
And we have lots of confirmation of all of this.
Lots and lots from many different sources.
We had on-air interviews.
So, something is coming down in our skies, and as far as I know, there is no reason for that to be occurring right now.
We are not in the middle of any particular meteor shower, according to an astronomer interviewed by Linda Howe on Sunday.
So, something is going on.
Now, somebody faxed me and said, hey Art, do you think this might be an answer To the grand experiment performed about a week ago.
It's a thought, isn't it?
Anybody who heard that first hour, I think, could not deny that.
Now, in the second hour, we spoke with Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Professor Stanley V. McDaniel with regard to the Mariner mission to Mars.
And all I can say is, what I said at the end of the hour, having thought about it now for a few moments, I'm going to say it again, and that is that short of the disagreement apparent between Richard Hoagland and the two professors on the imaging opportunity in mid-March, the apparent distrust of NASA and Dr. Malin was as obvious and pronounced with these two professors as it was with Dick Hoagland.
Now, I'm sure that we'll get some reaction from the audience and we'll find out whether they felt the same way.
But that would be my short and sweet assessment of what we just heard.
Now, We are about to enter an open line segment.
I do have a couple of things I want to say.
One, I said it at the beginning of the program and I'm going to say it again now.
Somebody has sent me two photographs that seem to be undeniably what... I'm going to have to rephrase that.
Two photographs that I think may have national security implications.
The person sending them has asked me to sit on them for at least a week and then I expect a communication from this person.
I think these photographs are genuine and they are pretty frightening.
I am going to protect my source who says he could lose his job were I to post them.
But I do expect and hope to receive a communication from this person.
You know who you are, please.
I will not hold on to them indefinitely.
I don't think that I have that.
I don't think I can do that.
I don't think I can morally do it.
You sent them to me.
You must have had some expectation that I would do something with them.
So, morally, in view of what you claim they are, I don't think I can hold on to these for more than about a week without hearing from you.
Hint, hint.
Somebody sent me a fax and said, hey Art, would you go to jail to protect your sources?
Well, in this case, I can assure you these photographs have been widely distributed to people I trust, and I'm by far not the only one who has them.
so i'll leave it at that for now
i'm getting additional reports of fireballs uh...
from all sorts of people here and uh... we will continue to uh... monitor this
occurrence whatever it is it's going on right now as the night uh... progresses
And Peter, if you're out there and you have any additional information, please get to me as soon as possible.
It looks as though Jack Kevorkian has done it again, this time a young student, 21 years of age.
A young quadriplegic student, sadly, who won the right to leave the hospital and consult with Kevorkian.
He's gone, and this will no doubt be very controversial.
It comes under the category, in my mind, of whose life is it anyway.
I am a libertarian at heart, and I think you know my adamant feelings against suicide.
But those adamant feelings are for me.
And what you do with your life is your business, not the state of Michigan's, not the U.S.
federal government's.
It's none of their damn business.
If you want to do the wrong thing, in my estimation, that should be your right.
Oprah won her case in Texas.
She came out, hands high in the air, and talking a lot about the First Amendment President Clinton again has done the right thing.
The National Governors Association said that the internet should be taxed, or those items bought over the internet should be taxed.
I told you last night I thought that was a stinky idea.
Today, President Clinton also apparently thinks it's a stinky idea.
A U.S. Department of State official says, decision Thursday to withdraw sanctions against Colombia, we're on drug stuff here, folks, was helped by the impending departure of the president there.
He's been tainted by a drug corruption scandal since 1994, but Samper says it is wrong to hold him responsible for the sanctions being imposed two years ago.
Says the withdrawal is recognition of the country's drug-fighting efforts.
Columbia has been ineligible now for U.S.
assistance, except for humanitarian and counter-narcotics aid for some time.
In the animals attacking people department, I've got this email.
Art thought I'd let you know about the strange goings-on at my house last week.
My two-year-old cat, Turned on me for no reason and sliced a 5 inch by 1 quarter inch cut in my leg just above my ankle.
I'm glad we no longer live in California because my cat would probably be freaking out on a regular basis.
What are animals doing out there anyway?
That's weird.
Here's somebody who writes, Hey Art, I have a copy of Scallion, that'd be Gordon Michael Scallion's map, that was given to me in August of 1996 in a column off to the left He lists the following early warning signs.
Earthquakes and tsunamis will occur in India and Sri Lanka.
These happened three weeks after I got the map.
The following has also happened.
Water temperatures off the West Coast will rise.
El Nino, of course.
Plagues and new diseases will occur.
They have.
Strange low-level noise will be heard.
They have.
A new volcano will be born in the Sierra Nevada.
Look at Mammoth.
It's trying.
Mount Rainier will erupt.
My friends up there say the snow on Rainier is nil by comparison.
Almost like the mountains heating.
The new undersea volcano off the Oregon coast is right where Scallion puts the smaller island of Lemuria.
The new lake in Peru.
It will get bigger!
Nostradamus and scallion and of course Casey.
So that's just something for you to think about.
There is so much fresh water in the San Francisco Bay right now that many of the saltwater fish that generally are abundant in that area are now taking off like crazy for the ocean Trying to get back in the salt.
That's John in Fremont, California, sending that.
So, it's pretty strange out here, folks.
I've got a lot more, but we're going to go to open lines.
Anything you would like to discuss is really fair game.
I'm going to give you a photo op here pretty soon.
Oh, and I've got what I consider to be one of the best time traveler Communications that I have ever had, part of which I am instructed not to read on the air, and part of which I may read on the air.
So if you'll hold on before the show ends, within the hour, perhaps, I will read this to you.
I was very impressed.
I handed it to my wife and I said, you know, I don't normally ask you to read this stuff, but read it, will you?
And she said, fascinating.
And I sent it to Keith, and he said, well done as well.
So I'm not sure what I've got on my hands here, but I'll read it to you when I get a chance.
For now, to the phones we go.
On the screen talk radio, prepare yourself, anything can happen.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air, good morning.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, turn your radio off, please.
Hello, is this Art Bell?
Yes, it is.
Oh, I'm glad to get a hold of you.
Glad to have you.
Where are you?
Oh, Oklahoma, I promise.
What's going on?
Oh, what's going on?
Oh, I've seen a spaceship, December 3rd, 1989, in Lockheed when I was working there.
Right now, I'm... Lockheed?
Yeah.
A spaceship?
Yeah, 9.03 in the morning.
Yeah, there's other people seen it, too.
How do you know it was a spaceship?
Well, it came... I was watching it.
It was coming from the east, and I was looking at the moon, this here being that was Mimmo Wappert talking to the week before... Wait a minute, a being?
Yeah, a space brother.
A space brother?
Yeah, she's the... She?
She, my wife.
My wife is able to astral travel and everything like that.
Of course, she's passed on now.
But you're sure you were at Lockheed, you're sure you saw Space Shuttle?
Absolutely, others have seen it too.
Electricians and others have seen it.
And I was looking at the crescent moon way over at the east towards San Diego.
And it made a loop.
It came out.
Was it a light or was it a definitive shape?
Was it obviously nighttime?
Oh, it was so high.
It was so high.
Well, then how can you know it was a spaceship?
Because I was watching the moon and I noticed there was a flare coming out of the moon, appeared to, and it went over towards San Diego and it came and hovered right over the Channel in Lockheed B1.
That's a good sign.
All right.
All right.
Well, I appreciate the report.
That's the hovering part.
That's a little hard to dismiss.
That gentleman sounded like he was getting on in years, obviously.
And there are many others who saw it, and I wonder why it was not reported.
Anybody else know of Lockheed employees who have seen things like described by that man?
West of the Rockies, you're on air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
This is Phil in Oregon.
Hi, Phil.
Well, I was stationed at Fort Carson, and I've watched the Air Force and the Army do some strange things in the area.
I don't know what I would attribute it to.
I don't know if it's one of their missions that's gone awry or something along the government's I imagine they have a good idea of what it is and I'm not surprised they're not answering phones.
Something's going on out there.
Oh yeah, it's no real surprise.
That area, they have quite a bit of heavy experiments going on.
Falcon Air Force Base.
Oh yeah, they're right.
It's Satellite Area and Space Com.
They have now been integrated with NORAD out at Cheyenne Mountains.
Yeah, I know, but look, we're looking at a half kiloton explosion over El Paso.
Okay, that's weird.
We're looking at a kiloton explosion over Greenland.
And an object crashing into the ground there.
We're looking at repeated sightings of fireballs going on even tonight.
The size of the moon?
Strangest thing.
I know.
It is so bizarre.
I don't know if I'm really looking forward to having any contact with anything that would want to, oh, Act in that manner.
Remember what David, uh, Dr. Jacobs, uh, said.
I'm sorry, I don't.
Uh, okay, well, uh, if you'll listen on the air, Dr. Jacobs suggested that... And by the way, Michio Kaku, uh, Professor Kaku the other night said the same thing.
That there is, contrary to what you may have seen in movies like Independence Day, uh, or many others, there's no reason necessarily to believe that these beings are friendly, And even if they are technologically very advanced, that their motivations toward us would be a sweetness and love and, you know, curing our ills, cleaning up our atmosphere and rivers and so forth and so on.
There's no reason to believe that they would be disposed toward thinking of us, as Professor Kaku said, as anything more than an anthill.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
This is Paul M. Lincoln.
Well, welcome to the program.
Well, thank you very much.
Long-time listener.
Love every show.
Fantastic.
Right now, I'm sitting in the little parking garage booth, observing police cars go by with their lights on.
It's pretty entertaining.
Are they looking for you?
No, no, no, no.
Oh, no, no, no.
No, what they're doing is actually they're blowing red lights, is what they're doing.
And then they shut them off when they're done with their red lights.
You know, there are several things that cops do that just drive me absolutely out of my mind.
Oh, it's incredible.
One of them is, what you just mentioned, run the lights and run the light, right?
Right, oh yeah.
But there's one other that really makes me crazy.
I mean... Does that jack up the price of coffee?
No, our speed limit here on the open highways is 70 miles an hour.
Now, Tell me why a cop, who is not chasing somebody, or does not have his lights and siren going, should be going past you like a tornado, doing probably about 95.
Well, because they can.
Who's, you know, who's policing the police, you know?
But I don't have anything bad to say about them.
No!
I know what you're saying.
Not really, it's just that you look at this thing and go, zoom!
Yeah.
And you say, oh, come on now, how can he do that?
And as you point out, it's because he can do it.
Right, exactly.
Hey, I had an interesting idea.
It must have been a couple months ago you had a guest on talking about Noah's Ark.
Oh yes.
And talking about how the animals, actually all the continents were together and the animals congregated.
Is that what, pretty much, instead of like him going and hunting the animals to come on the... I'm not really sure how, I mean, Well, I had an interesting idea about that.
The people who really are strict in believing that to the letter, what did, say, like the cheetah and the tiger, etc., or just the cat family, what did they eat?
You know, wouldn't they have to eat the other two gazelles or something?
Well, you would think so, and then there wouldn't be two of anything.
Can you imagine the smell?
Wouldn't that drive you crazy?
I mean, well, like the litter box?
Parsay of the animal kingdom.
I mean, that's... I think that would drive you crazy.
But... I can barely... I think they're building a new ark in North County, San Diego right now.
Oh yeah?
Oh my gosh.
Well, yeah, that doesn't seem too far off, huh?
Not too far.
Not the way it's going these days.
Yeah, but I just wondered what kind of food would keep those animals alive.
Science diet.
Yeah, sure.
All right, well, I gotta run.
Hey, take care.
Thanks for having us.
And thank you for listening to the Ark Bell Show.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hiya.
Hello.
This is Friendship, Massachusetts.
Hi there.
Hi.
Hey, um, those two pictures you got that you said you can't say too much about?
Not yet.
Alright, are they, uh, from, uh, a video of some kind, picked out?
No.
Okay, hey, can you do me a favor before you hang up?
Swing that cat around the room a couple of times?
Uh, do what?
That cat noise you make.
I'm taping the show tonight.
I want to tape it.
Oh, you want the cat noise?
Yeah, please.
Let me see if I can get the cat noise.
Hold on a minute.
Keep the cat noise in a very special place.
Are you... I have a cat.
You have a cat?
The cat's not on your lap, is it?
No.
Alright, now that's a very important thing because, look everybody, this is a warning out there.
Get any cats that are on your lap off your lap right now.
Swing that cat.
You ready?
Yeah, man.
Alright, here it goes.
That's it.
Oh, that's beautiful.
I'm going to play that for my cat tomorrow.
Yeah, good for you.
And just don't have it on your lap when you do it, alright?
Alright.
Alright, that's the standard warning.
Or you'll...
You'll have skid marks all over your thighs, trust me.
And they won't go away for months either, and they sometimes get infected.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 26, 1998.
This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AMX-CX-3.
That's quite a few, actually.
That guy wrote the article.
heartfelt somewhere in time the program originally had been working for six
nineteen ninety eight you know all of you out there who think
i'm eight block off
disinformation artists that's what you actually uh... that i wrote the article
i have now given you a photo op that can go with that article
If you will go up to my website right now, that would be www.artbell.com, and just look on the left-hand side of the main page, you'll see something that says StudioCam.
Click on that, and I would call this the photo op of a lifetime.
What you see there is the real thing.
It's unscum.
All the way.
And that's all I'll say.
But I would say this photograph, along with the Black Ops indictment, would sort of go together quite well.
I'll tell you one other cool thing about the StudioCam, and that is that I am going to
replace the present StudioCam cameras with the higher resolution Howard Industries cameras.
In the next few days...
I'm sure by next week.
Well, sorry, what is today?
Anyway, Thursday, already Thursday, Friday.
Good Lord, is it already Friday?
Hey, Greg Brayden's gonna be on tonight.
Oh!
Monday night, I'm going to have a guest on... The Titanic.
I'm gonna have a guest on the Titanic.
He's Captain Jim Clary.
And this movie now is headed, you know, for the biggest seller of all time.
I think it's about to challenge for that.
Already internationally it is.
But even domestically, it is about to break the Star Wars barrier, and probably will be the biggest earner of all time.
And so there's a lot of interest about the Titanic.
What an incredible, incredible motion picture that is.
And so we're going to bring on an expert about the Titanic.
That'll be on Monday.
Listen, I can read you small portions of this.
Mr. Bell, I am a time traveler.
Please, you must read on.
This is in bold.
If you read any of this over the air, do not read the following.
And there follows two, three paragraphs that I will not read.
And at the bottom he says, these must not be posted on your website or mentioned on your two radio programs until after September 12th, 1998.
Lives will end if you cannot or choose not to heed this warning.
Failure to heed this warning will result in catastrophic events culminating with a possible death of thousands of men, women, and children.
If you wish, you may read the remaining portion of this letter over the air.
As stated, I am a time traveler.
Although we refer to it as riding the wave, I am a U.S.
citizen born in 1964.
I am nearly 40 years old.
In 1983, I enlisted in the U.S.
Army.
It was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was first approached by those I now refer to as simply my friends.
This group does not consist of aliens nor inter-dimensional beings.
They are human.
I've learned over the years that not everyone can safely travel the wave.
And I was first approached, I was told, due to an unusually large amount of some chemical that naturally occurs in the human body, it somehow aids in the time travel process.
My friends told me what chemical it was back then.
That was many years ago, and I've long since forgotten the name of the stuff.
I think it has some copper or something in it.
I've since learned that when I enlisted in the U.S.
Army, my friends gained a large amount of information about me, my genetic history, and so forth.
And it was this information that changed my life forever.
I have traveled the wave 16 times on various missions for my friends.
But five days ago, while I was back in 1999, I stumbled across some information I wish I never had.
My life is no longer guaranteed.
I find that my friends are far from true.
The information proves that my friends are members of an organization that I see referred to only as The Club.
I have no doubt, however, that this group is in fact the same group that others have called MJ-12.
I am now virtually a fugitive.
I was arrested and began to see that I was going to be killed, so I escaped from my friends two days ago, June 21st, 1999.
Before I rode the wave back to 1998, I prepared a packet of information including names, dates, even some photographs.
I have arranged for a friend for this packet to be forwarded to you and a few others in the event of my untimely death or disappearance.
Please keep in mind, this packet was left with a very trustworthy individual two days ago, June 21st, 1999.
As I have now disappeared, I'm confident the packet will find its way to your hands.
I will not remain in 1998.
I took the chance to rest here so that I could pass on some vital information and take care of some personal duties.
I will not reveal in what time period I intend to live, but I will on occasion come back to check into this time period.
To aid in proving the veracity of the information I have revealed to you in this letter, I will now reveal a few things further.
I'm keeping back a few things that I do think it is now wise to reveal.
One.
President Clinton will pass through this current scandal and the next as well.
Look for the words hollow oaks.
That's hollow oaks to be associated with the next scandal.
Two.
President Clinton will not finish his second term.
He will resign due to health problems soon after the Hollow Oaks scandal.
President Gore will lead his rejuvenated Democratic Party, as well as the nation, to bringing not one, but two new states into the Union.
Three.
A man named Brown will appear to be a strong candidate for the Republican presidential nomination to run against President Gore.
However, the ticket in 2000 will be Quayle Bush.
Wow.
Four.
It is far better to live in a world where Saddam is in power in Iraq.
Watch for this quote to appear as a headline in the Washington Post.
You will not believe who said this.
Just a few more quick notes.
One.
Time travel need not be achieved solely by mechanical means.
I use only a small electromagnetic tuner and my developed abilities to ride the wave with ease, too.
I have been sent on 16 missions from my friends over the years.
The packet I mentioned above contains a logbook that I secretly kept while on the missions.
Three.
It is unbelievably difficult to create the feared time paradox.
On my second mission, we tried to create the paradox.
We could not.
Time is like a river, ever flowing and changing, but always moving forward.
Four.
I was a big fan of your late night TV talk show.
I have several on R-D-V-D.
Whatever that is.
My late night TV talk show, please.
Mr. Bell, I hope to never have to contact you again.
When you get my packet, I trust you will do what needs to be done.
This may be a bit of a cop-out on my part, but I deserve a normal life.
I can no longer be part of this.
May God forgive me if I am making a mistake, but I'm going to try to lose myself in my chosen time.
If I am successful, I will live and die a normal life.
May God bless you in the upcoming times.
Signed, a refugee from 1999.
And then, of course, there are the three paragraphs I am asked not to read, which I will honor.
I would ask, Keith, if you're out there, would you take the portions of this that can be read, that I just read, and post them on the website, please?
I considered this to be a very serious letter, particularly the portion, unfortunately, that I can't read you.
But even that portion which I did read you, I consider to be quite serious and, at the very least, very fascinating.
I wonder what you think.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello?
Yes.
Okay.
Turn your radio off, please.
I'm sorry.
I love your show.
You're a wonderful man.
Well, I'm different.
I had a question for you.
Sure.
Where are you, by the way?
I'm in Kansas City.
Okay.
I'm not very religious, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on all the changes going on and the oceans and everything.
Do you think this has anything related to Like the Bible is countdown type stuff?
You mean like the last days?
Yeah.
I'll answer that this way.
I am not a very traditionally religious person myself.
I am a spiritual person.
I think I'm quite spiritual, but in the classic sense of the God of the Bible and the Bible and so forth, I'm certainly not what one would call devout.
I think there is a creator.
I believe in a creator.
I no longer call myself a Christian because when I do, people get angry and say, with what you believe, you can't be a Christian.
Well, alright, so.
I am whatever I am.
Do I?
You look.
I think something is coming.
That's why I wrote the book I wrote.
I wrote a book called The Quickening, by the way.
I should tell you how to get that.
I haven't done that in a long time.
And it outlined what virtually is going on right now in the world, about, well now over a year ago.
So I'm sorry, I can't give you a religious, a religiously based take on what I think is coming.
I just think something is coming, a big change is coming, and pretty soon.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
Hi, Art.
I'm out here calling from Boulder, Colorado.
Yes, sir.
Concerning the big picture.
The big picture, yes.
Are you familiar with what's been going on in Colorado tonight?
I've been hearing about it, but I personally haven't seen it.
Okay.
The Great Discontinuity is what the Danes call it.
And what we have are a bunch of small steps that are engineered, these natural catastrophes, leading up to a big event that's coming.
Oh no, that's a lot of work.
The organization is called Omega Plus.
If you want to know who they are, take the zero from Omega and put a plus in the middle
of it.
Draw a little right-hand flag at the top of the plus.
Then rotate it and do it again.
Oh no, that's a lot of work.
Yeah, what you come up with is a swastika.
I see.
This is Omega Plus.
So they're, uh, they are the Germans, uh, reborn.
No, no.
The Nazis.
We beat the Germans, but these are the Nazis.
These are the Nazis that escaped to South America somewhere.
Um, I believe they escaped to, uh, Southeast Asia.
Southeast Asia?
They're called Vietnam.
Vietnam?
And then, in 1974, I think they escaped from Vietnam and moved their headquarters to world-famous Boulder, Colorado.
Ha, ha, ha, alright.
I think I've had enough of that.
From Vietnam during the war years.
Right.
Great site location.
To Boulder, Colorado.
Where now, no doubt, you think they are responsible for these incredible fireballs streaking across your skies this night and so many others.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Good morning, Art.
I'm calling from the Midwest and I'd like to remain anonymous if I could.
You could.
In the fall of 1976, I was the individual that released the MJ-12 briefing document and Truman's letter to the public.
You did?
Yes, sir.
In what manner did you do that?
First of all, let's back up.
Where did you get the document?
I got the document where I was assigned.
I was a clerk for one of the military agencies in Washington, D.C.
I worked for a four star admiral in a government leased building in Arlington, Virginia.
I had been ordered to destroy that document along with a whole bunch of others and several drawers worth.
I came across that.
I had the chance to make a photocopy of the briefing document.
What did you do with the copy?
I had the first page of the operations manual, but I didn't feel I had time to make copies
of other documents that were in the drawers.
What did you do with the copy?
I took it home, read it over quite a few times obviously, and decided that it needed to be
made public.
I took it to an organization in the Washington, D.C. area.
area that I believed would have the facility or the way to make that happen and obviously it did.
I think the document went through a number of different hands and times and places before
it got released in the form that most people know of it now.
The place that I was working at in DC was a was a very high-level military office.
The Admiral that I worked for reported directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and to the Chief of Naval Operations.
So what you did was very much like what Daniel Ellsberg did with the Pentagon Papers.
It's an interesting analogy.
Yes, it is.
How much thinking and consideration did you give it before you made these public?
Quite a bit, because first of all, reading that, what I read in there was just out of my parameter of life.
I had never heard of that type of thing before.
I came from a fairly religious background.
Such a thing wasn't even considered, what was being talked about.
Do you believe that document, the MJ-12 document, to be absolutely authentic?
Absolutely.
Um, not only, you know, where it was and how it was treated and how it was handled, you know, the general handling of it, um, there were names and individuals in the files that were associated with it that were more current and specifically... Are there any documents that you did not turn over that you still retain?
No sir.
Um, at that time I was really concerned You sound scared now.
You also sound young.
How old are you?
I appreciate the young part.
I'm in my mid-forties.
I am scared about this, obviously.
I have talked to one other individual who researches this type of thing.
Who I am and what I'm about is not as important as what was in that document.
Of course not.
The specific reason I'm calling this morning is there was an individual, military at that time I believe, individual in cover letters to that document that is still alive today and I think has an obligation to come forward with what he knows.
I won't name him specifically but I'll give a clue and the clue is that individual Turned down a very high-level military nomination or post.
He'd been nominated by the President or named by the President to take a post.
And he very abruptly, and many say without reason, stepped down from that post and did not take the post.
Well, that's a hell of a story you've just told.
And gone back into private life.
I think people are going to be able to figure out who it is based on that kind of a hint.
And that individual, he's out there, he's kept secrets successfully for more than 30 years.
You want to force him out.
That's what this is all about.
I want him out.
I want him out and I want him to talk about what he knows.
Alright.
Do you remember, you should be just barely old enough or if not you probably saw the movie, do you remember the Nixon administration?
Remember the scandal?
Yes sir.
You remember the operative who was feeding Woodward and Bernstein the information at the Washington Post?
They called him Deep Throat, I think, right?
From now on, when you can communicate with me, send me an email or send me a letter or whatever you might do to back this story up, which I hope you will do.
I want you to refer to yourself as Deep Doo-Doo.
No, I don't like that.
Well, it's what you'll be in if you get caught, so I think it's... I'll tell you what.
I gotta go.
I gotta go.
I'll give you a different name.
A different name.
Alright, alright.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
This is a trailer for the new episode of Coast to Coast.
I want you!
Once again, here I am.
If you want that one in a million photo opportunity.
That ties right into the black ops stuff.
the end of
You'll see it up there on the website right now.
The Studio Cam.
I'm gonna leave it there for about 22 minutes and then start it up live again.
By the way, you'll recall that I posted a fax yesterday from the Nightline staff at ABC.
An angry fax.
telling me that I should instruct my listeners to write to them and not tie up the fax machine at Nightline because they couldn't even get internal faxes sent.
And so I did.
I read the fax on the air.
I posted it on the website.
And I gave out their mailing address, as you recall, yesterday.
Today, today, the Nightline staff decided they were going to send All of the faxes they received to me on my fax machine.
Now, I caught it after about 26 pages or so.
But look, and by the way, the faxes that they did send, that did get through before I chopped the cord on my machine, were all, I thought, very articulate, polite, reasoned faxes from a lot of you.
Asking for a very reasonable thing, that Dan Golden put on some pressure to ensure the Cydonia images would be taken.
I thought it was all very reasonable.
Nevertheless, they are engaging in facts war with me.
And I would like to invite, if anybody from Nightline, from the Nightline staff, would like to come and go on the air, The whole intent of this was not to annoy you or to lock up your fax machine, but rather to have you ask some questions.
You know, it wasn't just to engage in the beginning of the fax wars.
No, not at all.
We did this for a very genuine reason, and I'm wondering, I thought it might be interesting to get somebody from Nightline To come on the air and address the actual question and the reason for doing all that faxing.
So I don't want a war with Nightline.
I don't see any reason for them to be acting in that manner.
And again, I say, read the faxes, folks.
Don't just look at the numbers back there at Nightline.
Read the faxes and see if you don't feel yourself.
This is a big story and one that deserves your attention.
So there you have it.
Also, the Time Traveler Facts that I read... Boy, Keith is good.
It's already up there.
The portion that I could not read on the air, was asked not to, is blacked out, just like in a Freedom of Information Act that you would do.
You'd receive back from the government.
You know, the part you really want to read is blacked out.
But the rest of it, that which I read, is there for your perusal on my website now.
Again, it's of course www.artbell.com.
From the Denver Post in January, a mysterious object lit up the night sky and up and down the front range early Sunday, then startled witnesses with a deafening explosion.
There was no official explanation about the object Sunday.
Military spokesman denied the object was a military aircraft.
Of course it did.
Local scientists speculated it could have been a meteor or maybe illegal fireworks.
Douglas County resident Gunnar Haars witnessed the phenomena around 12-15 a.m.
Quote, All of a sudden there was an impact that shook the house and then a double explosion immediately after the impact.
Said Horace, quote, I don't know if a meteorite makes that noise, but I do know that my house was shaking.
End quote.
Boy, there sure is a lot of this going on, isn't there?
International Line, you're on the air.
Good, oh, here's more echo.
Hold on a minute, see if I can get rid of the echo.
Hello there, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
Christian Courtney, British Columbia.
Well, welcome.
I'd really like to know what your thought was on the And as far as I'm concerned, it was a joke, and not a very funny joke, and a damaging joke to ufology.
And I think that a lot of the individuals, Daryl Sims, Stan Friedman, and a lot of other people are going to... In other words, you've not heard the end of this.
Yeah, because if you watch them, they didn't make any real reference to the video when they were talking.
It sounded like they just got put in there for... Oh, hey look, we don't have to guess about that one.
I had these gentlemen on the air, and they said that's exactly right.
They were interviewed prior to, and they never even, as a matter of fact, when I talked to Stanton first, he hadn't even seen the program.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's garbage.
Okay, thanks a lot.
Yeah, you're welcome.
So that's my feelings.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi, hold on, let me get my radio here.
Yeah, turn that sucker off.
Hi, how are you, Art?
This is Brian from Phoenix.
Hi, Brian.
Uh, let's see here.
I sent you a CD with my song, The Quickening, on there.
Did you get it yet?
I did, indeed.
You did?
Yes.
Well, did you like it?
Now, if you didn't like it, you can tell me.
I won't be heartbroken.
You didn't ask me whether I listened yet.
Oh, okay.
Well, you should listen to it.
No, I haven't, but I haven't listened.
Okay, well, you can.
But I will.
Oh, you can on there on your show there.
It'd be really neat.
Well, all artists think it would be neat.
I will listen to it, and if I think it's cool, I'll play it.
Okay.
Alright?
Thanks, Art!
Okay.
You take care.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
How you doing, Art?
I'm doing.
Okay.
First of all, can I get your address, please?
Your home address?
I was going to write you a letter.
Yes.
Yes, I will give it to you.
Are you ready?
Yes, sir.
It is.
Art Bell.
P.O.
Box.
4... P.O.
Box.
4755.
4755.
In Pahrump.
P-H-R-U-M-P?
Close.
P-A-H.
Oh, P-A-H.
R-U-M-P.
Someday somebody's going to spell it right.
Pahrump, Nevada.
Zip code 89041.
89041. 89041.
Yes.
Dash, four, seven, five, five.
Dash, four, seven, five, five.
Yes.
You know, you don't put that on there, people go postal.
Oh, okay.
Do you remember the other night you were talking about negative, you know, they might need some kind of negative force to go into, to use for like time travel or whatever?
With Professor Kaku, he suggested that A negative matter, if we could find it, would allow time travel now without great amounts of energy.
Yes, that is correct.
Have you heard of sprites in the atmosphere?
I've heard of them, yes.
Okay, they believe that that's negative matter because it shoots instead of going down towards the earth, you know, during electrical storms.
It goes up and even out of the atmosphere.
Right.
It's very fascinating.
I wonder how you would catch a sprite.
I mean, that's sort of the reverse of the Ben Franklin experiment.
And if you caught a sprite, you might not like it.
True.
Very true.
It's very, very fascinating.
You're going to be very surprised at this letter that I want to send you.
I almost have proof and almost believe that I know how the pyramids were built.
Well, I'm not surprised.
It's hard to surprise me anymore.
When they open up the Hall of Records, when I send you this letter, then it will be documented what it is.
When I was two, I had a lot, a lot of dreams when I was a small child.
Well, I'll tell you right now.
If you believe, and I bet you do, the Hall of Records, as Casey predicted, would be below the left paw of the Sphinx, right?
Right.
Dr. Zahi Awass would say you're crazy as a loon.
Yeah, he would.
But it's there for a fact, and it's rather unique how they, it's, how, that's, you know, these extra large ships that they're seeing, These, there's things that's on there that they use anti-gravity devices.
But it's something that they use energy from the earth.
If you can understand what I'm talking about there.
Well I do.
There are many people, thank you, who feel that the pyramids are a source of energy or a focusing of energy.
Now here's an interesting facts.
Hi Art!
The ships that are being spotted around the Western U.S.
Now, he says ships, right?
They're fireballs.
Well, whatever they are.
Around the Western U.S.
are the reconnaissance ships attached to the invasion force now being positioned about the planet.
Their functions are to disable communications and cause confusion about what is taking place.
Personally, I think they seem to be accomplishing their goals.
Would you not agree?
Well, not necessarily.
One thing that I think we would notice would be an invasion force circling the planet, but oh my.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Well, good evening, Mr. Bell.
This is Pete in Portland.
Hi, Pete.
What's up?
No booms or bolides as far as I can tell over here.
Just walked home from work about an hour ago.
Good.
Glad you made it safely back.
Yes.
Before I talk about time travel, Um, maybe next time you start a fax where you could ask the faxers to include some sort of legal phrase like, uh, this is a private communication intended not to be transmitted, re-transmitted by fax, uh, except within your organization, something like that.
Nobody pays any attention to that crap anyway.
Yeah, well.
Time travel.
I listened to Dr. Kaku's interview the other day, and I found it very interesting, although I have a few bones to pick with him.
One thing about time travel, though, is what if the entire cosmos is a big, giant time machine?
Well, it is a giant.
It is a giant.
And it's turned on.
It is turned on.
You're right on both counts.
Everything is moving outward.
I tend not to embrace the Big Bang Theory.
I'm sorry.
I just don't buy it.
In other words, there was nothing.
There was an object smaller than a quark.
It became an apple.
It became a basketball.
It became all the suns and planets that are everywhere now, out 15 billion miles!
All that matter from something less than the size of a quirk.
I don't buy it.
It reads like something out of a poor version of Star Trek to me.
I don't buy it.
I really don't buy the Big Bang thing.
A wild card line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, how you doing Art?
My name is Kieran.
I'm calling from Tampa, Florida.
Tampa, all right.
Hey, I've been trying to get a hold of you for a real long time.
It's like almost impossible.
Well, I'm glad you called.
Beginning Monday, we are going to be on WFLA.
Oh, really?
Oh, really.
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
I'll have to check and see exactly what station that is.
I'm a musician myself.
I listen to a lot of rock music.
We play rock music and stuff, but I mean, you know, I listen to your show as often as possible.
I work nights, so I'm up at night late anyway, so I listen, and I'm able to, but there's been a story I've been wanting to tell you for so long, and I've been trying to get through, and there's been the subject matter that had arisen on one of your previous shows would have been exactly what would have been talked about, but this is open discussion, right?
It is, so lay it on me.
Well, when I was a kid, I was probably around 8 or 9 years old.
This was in Charleston, West Virginia, where I grew up.
I'm 27 now.
There was this field of woods that we always used to play around.
We just called it the field.
It was just a bunch of woods.
A friend of mine, Sam and I, We were up one night, he was spending the night at my parents' house, and we had noticed really, really strange brightness in the air, and then there was a slam in the woods.
Yes.
Like you'd hear in a car crash.
Right.
The whole neighborhood freaked out.
Nobody really paid any attention to it, but there was like a dim glow over in the side.
Oh boy.
And we were playing We used to play in that area the whole time.
The next day, the police and a bunch of cars and unmarked cars, real freaked out government looking dudes, you know?
Yeah.
They were all there.
That entire area was taped off.
It was all taped off and cordoned off.
No one was allowed to go there.
We weren't even, that's, we weren't even allowed to play there.
Men in black.
And then, then later on, And a few weeks later, they plowed all that woods out.
They brought equipment in and plowed all that woods out and cleared out the clearing.
And the one place there is still inaccessible.
It's a restricted area now.
Even now?
It's not allowed to go there.
Well, then go there and take a photograph for me.
I would love to, and I would send it.
Your caller just gave the address and I'd love to.
We noticed a bunch of marked changes.
A bunch of marked changes in the environment.
Vegetation in that area doesn't grow anymore in that specific area.
Well, I ask again.
Go take a picture for me.
I will do that.
Alright.
Send it off to me and we'll go from there.
You know me.
For as long as I'm able, I'll keep doing whatever it is that this radio program, this path, leads me down.
What other fun can there be in life, right?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
I guess I got an old program on here.
Really?
Yeah.
How could an old program be responding to you like this?
I don't know.
Yeah, I do have the radio.
Now do you see why I say turn down your radio?
Yeah.
Where are you?
I'm in Dayton, Ohio, home of Hanger 18.
That is the home of Hanger 18, isn't it?
Yeah.
I was very intrigued when I found that out myself.
I've got two things to say.
First of all, the guy that was on last night talking about how everyone was going to be Christian at the end of the world, the actual statement is that We would all find out that we were having the same religion.
It wasn't that we were all Christian.
It was all realizing that there was one religion.
Second of all, about the letter from the time traveler, isn't it possible that since he gave you that letter and you're talking about it on the air, that it could possibly be changing the events and it's not going to happen that way now?
Remember that there are key portions of that letter that I did not read.
Yeah.
And I presume he has enough knowledge, having traveled in time, to know what would and what would not create a paradox.
He seemed not to think they were common at all, and that the information he did reveal would not create a paradox.
So, what do I know?
Yeah.
I thought it was a good letter.
Yeah.
You know, it gave specifics, things that we can look at coming up very soon that either will or won't happen.
If they do, look out.
Yeah.
That it?
Yeah.
Bye.
Well, appreciate the call.
Thank you.
That's why I read that letter because I thought, you know, there were quite a few specifics in there.
It is on the website if you want to get a look at it.
There is a blacked out portion.
Those would be the three paragraphs that I told you I cannot read.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Crow in Hayward, California.
Yes, sir.
Oh, that's the home of the Hayward Fault.
Oh, yeah, of course.
It's only about a mile from here.
About a mile, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah, I wanted to talk about... If it ever really happens, could you call us up real quick so we could listen to your phone melt?
If it's not a tsunami, if that happens, I might end up in Modesto.
That's right.
I wanted to talk about Dr. Michikachu.
First I wanted to ask you about your theme song.
It's Michio Kaku and my theme song.
What about it?
Oh, the one you start your program off with.
Yes.
Is that from Midnight Run?
Midnight Express.
Midnight Express.
That's right.
Cool, that's a cool song.
Actually, it's from the motion picture, and so the way you get it is to order the soundtrack to Midnight Express, and you get that.
Oh, cool.
It is a very cool song, actually.
Look, I'm at a break point.
It's our nickel, so you want to hold on?
Sure.
All right.
Stay right where you are.
Don't move.
Especially on that phone.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere In Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Post-A-Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
This is a presentation of the Post-A-Coast AM from February 26th, 1998.
you Do you remember that day?
When you first came my way?
I said no one can take your place And if you get hurt, if you get hurt
By the little things I say I can set my back on your face
When it's all right and it's coming home We gotta get right back to where we started from
Love is good, love can be strong without you I got a fact.
Well, I'll tell you about it in a minute.
This ought to be good, though.
Keith, if you've got that handy, put it back on the front page so people can see it, would you please?
February 26th, 1998.
Oh, you're not going to believe this.
I got a fact, I'll tell you about it in a minute.
This ought to be good though.
Keith, if you've got that handy, put it back on the front page so people can see it.
Would you please?
On the latest news and web items.
We've got a caller on the line.
We've got a caller on the line.
I need to finish this call.
And then the author of the article entitled, Is Art Bell on Secret Government Black Op Payroll, is online.
He sent me a fax.
I'll read you the fax.
If you want to see this article, Speculating that I might be on the Black Ops payroll.
I did say indictment earlier.
Indicts me, sort of.
This person is on the line, and we're going to talk to him in a moment.
West of the Rockies, you're back on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Yeah, I just wanted to kind of go along with you on what you were saying about the big bank theory and stuff.
I can't really get into it either.
It doesn't seem possible that all the material in the universe could be squeezed down.
I'll tell you.
You know how much I believe it?
I believe it about as much as I do the tooth fairy now.
I mean, when I was really young, I left a tooth under the bed and I always got a buck next morning.
It just doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense to me either.
But we're not physicists, what do we know?
That's true.
And no disrespect to Dr. Michio Kaku.
Uh, very good.
Very well said, sir.
All right, thank you.
Thanks for the opportunity to say hi.
Take care.
Um, all right.
Now, I just received the following facts.
Let me read it verbatim.
Art, I heard you talking about my Black Ops post at 1230-ish.
Hmm.
You said indictment.
Like I said in my email last week, it was not that.
And in fact, it was an old post that has resurfaced.
It was simply speculation and actually a germ of an idea for a novel.
I am a published novelist and short fiction writer with several books to my credit easily checked up on the web.
That article was not an attack on you, so please stop saying that, because I'm getting a slew of hate email from that.
In fact, I have gotten dozens of emails challenging me to go on the air with you.
Signed, Michael Hemmingsen.
San Diego.
So, um, I've provided with a phone number, uh, called Michael, author of the Black Ops Post, and here he is.
Michael, welcome to the program.
I am.
Let me get rid of the echo here, see if I can get rid of the echo.
1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 3, that sounds better.
Alright, you are now on the air.
I take it you stay up late.
Oh yeah, I stay up late.
I'm going to have to ask you to stay really good and close to the phone and kind of shout at us.
Okay, how's that?
Oh, much better.
Much better, okay.
Yes.
Now, this is some scenario you put together about me.
Well, you know, it was pretty funny.
I think you read it last Monday on the air.
On the air, I did, and then put it on.
And then I just turned the radio on.
Oh, you're kidding.
Yeah, I just turned it on.
Actually, I was going to go to bed early that night, and I was thinking, Man, that sounds like my writing.
My words, huh?
Yeah, and I called my girlfriend up and she goes, don't you remember that article?
And I went, oh yeah, that is my writing.
But the thing was that I posted that on several internet groups.
Yeah, but you know where it ended up, UFO Mind?
Yeah, I checked your webpage and found it there.
Now, UFO Mind is considered to be A cut above all other such groups, you know, where really good information is sent.
Are you aware of that?
No, no, I really haven't even checked that page out.
I've heard of it, but I've never had the time to really check it out.
When did you write this wonderful work of fiction?
Well, it must have been, I think it was probably November or December of 96.
Of 96?
Yeah, I noticed that the posting said July of 97.
I know I wrote it long before that, but I think it had been in traveling.
A little time compression there, Michael.
Well, yeah.
I think it had been reposted or bounced around, because since then, I usually get like one or two emails a month about it.
Usually people saying, oh, I agree with you.
But it was so specific, you know.
There I am, a talk show host, languishing in obscurity, a regional celebrity, but not known worldwide.
Then all of a sudden I connect with the right guys in government, and schoom, the show goes.
Well, I was just kind of thinking about that, because I was reading your autobiography, and you were talking about, you know, your struggles earlier on.
But, Michael, everybody In show business, radio, television, motion pictures, whatever, they all struggle for years.
Everybody thinks that people become, you know, like back in New York right now, for example.
They hear me in New York City, I've been there half a year or something, a little under half a year.
To them, I'm an overnight success.
But I'll tell you, I'm an overnight success who's been at it for about 35 years.
Right.
See?
Well, my idea, and like it was, it was just a speculation.
I wasn't going after you or anything.
Oh, but you should see the emails I get as a result of that.
And the emails I've been getting.
But it just seems to me, I mean, I don't know.
Of course, you probably think about this, but it just seems to me, I've been listening to you for about two years now.
My mother's been telling me to listen to you for five years.
Your own mother?
Yeah, my own mother.
She's a great fan of yours.
Well, that probably means she's involved.
Of course.
It just seems to me, it seems like a lot of your guests seem to be coming into strange
peril.
And I never come into peril.
Well, not that we know of.
Was the real thrust of the article, was it?
In other words, people around me falling like cordwood, but here I still stand.
Yeah, like David Oates' house.
He lives here in San Diego.
Then there's Richard Hoagland.
Hoagland and the Stephen Greer thing.
Some guys in dark suits are going to break into my office right now.
Words, Michael, have consequences.
Now, let's admit something to the audience.
Before the Washington Post even came out, To talk with me, to interview me, which they did a few days ago.
They contacted me, too.
Who did they go to?
They went right to Michael Hemminson in San Diego.
Find out if it was... Well, actually, I don't know.
Let me ask you.
What did the Washington Post ask you?
Actually, all he... The guy, I think his name was Mark Fisher.
That's right.
He basically, he asked me why did I write it, and he was mainly interested in people's... if I was getting feedback from it.
Yeah, which I told him, yeah.
Do you still, as The Post would say, stand by your story?
I stand by my story as a speculation, not as an attack.
Merely as, could it be possible?
Can you understand that a lot of people reading your story, your speculation, would embrace it as fact?
I could understand that, but when I went on your webpage to re-read it again of something I wrote a year ago and riddled with typos too because I was probably up late that night when I did it, I'm not sure if they would actually think I was being serious or if it was just merely a speculation.
Well, I'm not too sure about your history.
that uh... that that this uh... regional talk shows would meet up with these uh...
uh... m i b types and they would say let's not stop him
it is decided to your words quote let's make him bigger for our purposes
well i'm not too sure about your history i i i think that you originally
uh...
when you're a regional your show with more political nature you are just a thing years and years and
years ago but it has been uh... you know in a paranormal now for many years
And hasn't your... And by the way, I might add, it moved over there as a natural course of events, slowly, with what the audience wanted.
I just, and I wanted it too.
It was, you know, a happy little marriage where we just began to tackle topics that other people don't tackle.
Right.
And obviously, you too must have some interest in these areas, or you wouldn't be posting in those news groups.
Oh, definitely.
When I started listening to your show, I was hooked, because I was interested in those areas, which I guess is the reason for your great success.
I mean, a lot of people are probably having those interests, but I think maybe a lot of people also might think, well, you discuss, or your guests who are meeting strange occurrences and lawsuits and death threats and cancer and everything else, I mean, I'm sure many of your listeners are thinking, well, what's happening to these people after they come onto the show?
And why does Bell still live?
Well, see, my mom thinks you put up that webcam just to make sure in case something happened to you, you know, we're all watching it.
Oh, in other words, as protection for myself?
Yeah.
So that at the very least, you would see the guy in the black suit with the... Or at least as a deterrent, you know, they're like, well, Do you favor conspiracies?
Do you sort of move in those circles?
Oh yeah, I'm very interested in conspiracies.
In fact, they tend to fuel my paranoia a little too much.
I was actually, the other night, you had some guest who was our caller who said he was listening to you in prison.
That's right.
That's my computer.
That was your computer?
Yeah.
One of them is an old Macintosh.
Oh, Macintosh.
That explains it.
It's a little fast.
And there's a writer who recently wrote this great novel about being in prison, and I was talking to him, and I started talking about you, and he said, oh yeah, we all listen to him all the time.
I can just imagine people being in prison, listening to your show, and their paranoia is being fueled, too.
I suppose so.
It also mentions here two of his frequent guests are Linda Moulton Howe and Whitley Streber, both of whom have been known operatives of the CIA on UFO disinformation.
Now where did you get that?
Okay, well that information, I mean that's pretty stuff I got off the net from I don't think the word indictment is too strong.
I mean, you're not a federal jury, of course, but a grand jury.
But it is a kind of an indictment when you accuse somebody of being CIA and UFO disinformation artists.
Well, that's probably bad scholarly work on my part.
I should have did a reference to where I heard about that, which is on a couple of pages.
The all-seeing eye, I don't know if you've ever seen that webpage.
The all-seeing eye webpage, no.
So in other words, you're telling me you got this from some other webpage?
Yeah, yeah.
But see, the way you write it, to repeat again, two of his frequent guests were Lynn Monaghan and Whitley Streber, both of whom have been known operatives of the CIA on UFO disinformation.
I would say that's Yeah, well, probably a great mistake on my part.
I'm a great fan of Whitley's, but every time I become fascinated with someone as Whitley, I'll do some research on them and I pick up all these things.
I mean, they're everywhere.
A lot of people seem to believe that he is a Well, you know, some operative of some sort.
He just seems like a guy to me.
Yeah, he seems like a great guy to me, too, but I was, you know... It seems that a lot of people seem to think that.
Well, Michael... Not that I think that.
Not that you think that?
So you mean you're withdrawing that?
I'm withdrawing an accusation, but I'm not withdrawing, you know, a sort of speculation.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with speculation to say, well, you know, maybe... Well, no, there isn't.
But you wrote it not as a speculative statement, but as a statement of fact, Michael.
Right.
Right.
So you're withdrawing... I'm withdrawing my attack on that.
I'm just saying that my post is a speculation.
Do you have any idea what you've done to my life, Michael?
No.
No, I don't, Art.
I mean, can you possibly imagine what kind of letters and email and stuff I get now that people think I'm a black ops guy?
Oh, come on, no more than you get before that you've gotten before.
I've hurt people.
No, but you lay the foundation for everybody to grasp this and embrace it as shoaling up their belief system.
Okay, are you a black ops guy?
Of course!
Listen, you're on the web, right?
I'm on the web everywhere.
Everywhere?
Yeah.
Well, what I recommend to you is that you go up to the web, and I have left it up there longer than I thought I was going to.
Have you seen my studio cam job tonight?
Not tonight, no.
Oh, you haven't?
No.
I heard you talking about it.
I just caught part of it.
That's why I sent you that fax.
I see.
What's going on?
Well, I don't want to give it all away.
I'll leave it up there long enough for you to go and take a look, but it would certainly underscore everything that you've written.
Okay, so you're dressed in a black suit with dark glasses, right?
Oh, it's more than that, Michael.
I wear black a lot.
My audience will tell you that.
But I mean, this is far more serious.
Far more serious than that.
Nevertheless, Michael, you've ruined my life.
I haven't ruined your life.
You have.
I have not.
This has circulated everywhere.
Now it's probably even going to be in the damn Washington Post.
Well, you know, we'll bounce back from it.
Well... But speaking of which, I mean... I mean, you know, tongue in cheek, yes, a little bit, but, you know, you asked me, Are you government blacks?
And my answer is, oh yeah, sure.
What else am I going to say?
A lot of people are going to believe that.
If I say, no, what a joke, come on, why would you even write this kind of crap, then what do you think people will think?
In other words, there's no way out of this, Michael.
For me, no way.
Once you write something like that, it is like an indictment.
Because as I told you, people take it and they embrace it and use it to prop up their already sort of twisted belief systems about me.
And now I've got to live with that for the rest of my life.
I'm sorry, Art.
Alright, Michael.
But, you know, to show you how much I love your show, I'm producing a play with you as sound design in it.
You're doing what?
I have a character calling you, calling your show in the play.
Oh.
Talking about her hybrid alien children.
She's kind of an offshoot of Pamela.
Pamela?
Yeah.
The lizard?
Yeah, the lizard queen.
Oh my.
And this play, where do you intend to, what hopes do you have for it?
Well, it's just, the characters are in a motel room.
They're meeting for sex and they're listening to your show.
So it's, you know, Art Bell and sex.
Art Bell and sex?
Yeah.
Together?
Yeah.
During my program?
During your program?
Well, I mean, they're late at night in the hotel room.
Well, that knows how much of that goes on across the country at these hours anyway.
I think it does.
I mean, I've been in motel rooms for sex listening to your show.
Michael, you've been in motel rooms having sex listening to my show?
Oh yeah, well I mean also in my own home.
I mean, you just, sex and Arbel go hand in hand.
You do?
I don't know why.
And my girlfriend can't stand listening to you.
There's something about your voice.
Well, doesn't that sort of Uh, take away from the magic of the moment or something?
No, not at all.
It's a great ambient sort of thing.
So I decided to write a play about that and kind of embrace that.
So great.
So we go from posts on UFO Mind to a full-scale play.
You're really trying to ruin me, huh?
I'm not trying to ruin you.
This was an act of admiration.
Oh, right.
An act of admiration.
I'm in league with the government feeding the American people disinformation about ufology and God knows what else in secret league with God knows who out there.
I mean, that's... I mean, how can you call that an act of admiration?
Well, I'm not supposed to.
That's an act of ruination.
Oh, it's not ruination.
It's probably going to add you a couple more.
Yeah, right.
They really come on board for black ops people.
Of course they do.
Well, all right.
In honor of your coming up here to confess, I have reposted on the front page your indictment.
Okay.
I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of email about it.
Later, Michael.
Later.
Yeah, there's the guy who wrote it.
▲
Export Selection