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Feb. 20, 1998 - Art Bell
37:39
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Prof. David Jacobs - Alien Abductions - The Threat
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If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, send it to him at area code 702-727-8.
702-727-8499.
Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now, here again is Art.
Once again, here I am.
My guest is Professor David M. Jacobs from Temple University.
He's a history professor there in Philadelphia at Temple.
He's authored a book called The Threat.
This is a very, very serious book indeed.
And I think for those joining at this hour, it is best that I simply read a little bit from it.
The Threat, the secret agenda, what the aliens really want and how they plan to get it.
Quoting the professor, in my most recent research I have uncovered information that allows UFO researchers to solve the UFO mystery.
At least the questions that will leave the greatest impact upon us.
I've put many pieces of the puzzle together.
I've focused the picture and I do not like what I see for the first time in over 30 years Of researching the UFO phenomenon, I am frightened of it.
Understanding has led to a profound apprehension for the future.
The abduction phenomenon is far more ominous than I had thought.
I know why the aliens are here, and what the human consequences will be if their mission is successful."
The professor will be back in a moment.
You have concluded that there is going to be an integration, that there is going to be, that our Earth, our planet, is going to be their realm, and what position do you conclude that we would have under such a circumstance?
Assuming that there was a classic landing and they arrived, We would be in the middle of some sort of anarchy or Mad Max scenario, or nuclear war, or ecological meltdown, or something that they would have precipitated.
Is that about right?
Well, you know, I really don't know, and I guess that's possible, but to tell you the truth, I tend to think it's going to be a little bit different.
I think that something like that might happen, but I think it's afterwards that's the most important thing.
And one of the oddities of the abduction phenomenon that we've noticed over the years, once again this is through my research and other researchers who I think do excellent work and who I trust like Bud Hawkins, one of the interesting things we see is that these beings virtually never ask questions about the society that we would expect them to ask.
They don't ask Dick Tease what they're doing Saturday night, they don't ask him about who is this guy Clinton anyway, and what the movies show.
We really don't get any kind of serious discussion about the normal institutions of American society or global society as a whole.
They don't even ask about Monica Lewinsky.
Well, that would be an exception, and they do ask quite a lot about her.
At least we can laugh about it.
It's a very serious topic.
So, my guess is that because of this almost total lack of interest in the institutions of our society, If they plan to integrate into this society, it will be with their institutions.
Their institutions?
Yeah, and when we take a look at their society, which is actually a kind of double society, it's an alien society and a hybrid society within that particular society, what we see is a fairly regimented, hierarchical society in which everybody knows his or her place.
Everybody does his job.
It seems to be a work-oriented society, and it's a society based on telepathy.
Now, telepathy is, in my opinion, a society in which one would not want to live.
With telepathy, the idea of individualism is severely mitigated.
Frankly, Professor, what you are describing sounds like The unattainable socialist or even communist ideal.
In a way, that's probably true.
Now, I can't tell what their economic situation would be like, certainly, but I can say that it's not a society that we would find attractive.
Well, you talk about suppressed individualism, you talk about everybody virtually knowing their place.
I assume everybody in their place being taken care of according to their needs.
Right, I would assume it would be something like that.
Now, when they talk about the society of the future and how it's going to be so wonderful and it's going to be so grand and all that, the question is, who are they talking about when they're talking about the society?
Who exactly are these beings talking about?
And they're talking about themselves, of course, and they're talking primarily about abductees.
Non-abductees, people who have not been involved in the abduction phenomenon, are almost never discussed.
They're virtually never mentioned.
It's almost as if they're expendable, like they really don't matter.
The non-abductees are sort of superfluous in this kind of society.
Abductees, these beings, have a fairly substantial investment in, in a number of ways, and non-abductees, they don't.
And so, the question that bothers me quite a bit is, in this new world order, so to speak, what will happen to people who are not abductees?
And this is an answer that I... Let me stop you and ask you, then, are you saying the abductees would be the rough equivalent of inmate guards?
Well, that I don't know.
That I wouldn't go so far as to say, and I hope that...
I hope there is some sort of a role for non-abductees.
Oh, me too.
Some people have indicated that non-abductees are expendable.
They will be eliminated.
Other people have said that non-abductees will be used as a breeding population primarily.
The key thing here is that we don't know what will happen to non-abductees, and we should know that.
I mean, this is something that we have to find out, and we don't know that, and they just don't talk about that, and it leaves me very uneasy.
I think that the sort of pecking order will be the insect-like ones at the top, followed by, and I'm not sure where to put the reptilians, but certainly followed by probably the gray aliens, and then the hybrids, and then abductees, and then non-abductees.
But this will be a very ordered society that emphasizes a group ethic rather than an individual ethic.
And, well, it's just... Americans are not going to like them.
I don't think anybody's going to like this.
I think that this is... I tend, in my more lucid moments, I tend to think that we're looking at a catastrophe in the making.
And I'm not an alarmist type person.
I never have been.
In fact... Quite the opposite.
Right, well, when I take a step back and listen to myself talk, I can't imagine that I'm saying these things, because the whole thing sounds so crazy anyway.
But I've got to go where the evidence leads me, you know.
And as an academic, you just have to filter out everything else that won't make sense until you come to something that does make sense.
And even though it sounds nonsensical on the surface... I understand.
Professor, so the audience might understand, particularly the ones who just joined, you have come to these conclusions as a result of your investigation of how many abduction cases?
Well, over 700.
Maybe 725, something like that.
That's a lot of abduction cases, a lot of them.
Well, it's not so much that it's a lot.
I spend a lot of time with each abductee and I'm extremely careful in each session and each session will last anywhere from one hour, which is rare, to three hours of hypnosis and there's an hour beforehand of discussion and an hour afterwards.
So the average person spends about five hours here for each session that they come to and I'm very careful and very cautious, at least I hope I am.
It's really not a matter of quantity, although that's important because you get a sense of what's happening overall, but also there is a matter of quality as well.
All right.
Look, in the world of non-abductees, and for the moment, until I learn otherwise, I'm going to count myself in that group.
Particularly American non-abductees.
Frankly, we are individualistic, rather greedy, mean bastards.
We are a warlike people.
We're about to prove it again next week.
We are not easily subdued nor enslaved.
We fight.
We have guns.
And frankly, most Americans would rather fight than switch.
So when this integration occurs that you're talking about, I would think that America would be high on the list of non-cooperatives.
Non-compliant.
Yes, sir.
Problem with that is that It's the neurological and physiological superiority that these beings have.
In other words, it's been shown over and over again in virtually every abduction event ever recorded that these beings have the ability to control people and they can control them from a distance.
So, in other words, you are suggesting when the integration occurs, whatever part the abductees play, the non-abductees will be immediately Yeah, I think the abductees will be immediately controlled as well.
I think that the abductees might have more specialized tasks to perform, but anybody who decides to run into the garage and get the AK-47 out is probably going to be controlled once they get in a situation where they can actually fire it.
You know, this is really speculation, and I really don't know that, and I really shouldn't even be talking about that.
But the best thing that I can say is that these beings have a physiological knowledge and superiority over us that is downright astonishing.
And without that, they could not carry on the abduction phenomenon at all.
All right, Professor.
Let's take all that and say, okay, that's the way it is, that's the way it's going to be.
Do you believe that there is a faction of our leadership, current leadership, our government, that understands what you understand about what's going on?
Now, there have been tests of weapons Well, that certainly may be possible, and there might be individuals who are onto this, and I hope that's the case.
at what are called fast walkers and vehicles moving at very fast pace through our atmosphere.
That would indicate there might be some in government who understand what's going on.
Well, that certainly may be possible and there might be individuals who are onto this and
I hope that's the case.
In fact, I hope that there's a large secret government study going on about this.
I just hope that that's happening.
That would give me some hope.
I really do want that.
You know what?
You're about the first one to come on my show and say three cheers from the secret government.
I hope it's real.
Well, in this case, I really do.
To tell you the truth, my gut instinct, however, tells me, and as a historian, of course, I have looked at this subject for a number of years, tells me that That I really don't see the government conspiracy in this particular area, and I really don't think that the government knows a whole lot about it, and I think that the government primarily takes its cues from the scientific community, and virtually all of the major scientists in the scientific community in this country feel that the subject is just total nonsense.
You are, of course, referring to the government that we vote for.
That is correct.
Now, there might be other individuals, but here's the bottom line.
The bottom line is that the government does not act as if it's real.
It does not give money to study it in case it might be real.
It does not encourage or discourage researchers who are studying it.
It does not come out with information to give us knowledge of it.
It acts as if it's not real, and therefore, for us in the research community, we just have to continue with our research lives, whether the government knows or not.
Yes, well, but Professor, if what you have suggested in the last hour and a half is true, Then I would expect that as the reaction from the government we vote for.
There couldn't even be a hint that we would be on to them or that in fact anybody's on to them.
Well, that may be true, and once again, I hope it's true.
I hope that they've got a super-secret study.
I hope that they're spending money by the billions.
You don't sound convinced, but we do have big black budget programs, that's for sure.
Well, you know, I think that one of the things that we would see if this were going on was we would see a massive Hypnosis of thousands of abductees around the clock to gain information about what this phenomenon is and how it's going to be played out.
And I just don't see that, unfortunately.
And once again, this is something that I would like to see.
I want that.
Well, if I was an alien or I was part of a secret government that was trying to deal with this in some way or another, And I encountered Professor Jacobs, who's written a book called The Threat, detailing all of this, what they want, what it's really all about, the whole thing.
I would say your life wouldn't be worth two cents.
Had you thought about that?
Well, perhaps.
Academically, it may not be worth two cents anyway now, but I just never had personally any government involvement or government intervention or government interest or government knowledge since 1966 when I first started looking into the subject.
And neither has my friend Bud Hopkins, as far as I know, or most other of the abduction researchers anyway.
I take it that your fellow academics This is a matter that, for me, in 20th century U.S.
history is, as they say, not the proper paradigm in which to study.
You're right. They probably regard it only as the parish part.
This is a matter that for me in 20th century U.S. history is, as they say, not the proper paradigm in which to study.
It is something that they don't understand, that they almost all think is nonsense.
And you see, the problem with the academic community is that when you say,
abduction, little green men, Mars, that sort of stuff, the first thing that goes through their mind is a rundown,
like shuffling through a deck of cards, of every conceivable psychological, psychiatric explanation that could cause
these stories to come forward.
Well, of course.
If Professor John Mack had not been successful in his fight, would you have been able to publish the threat?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no.
I published Secret Life before John Mack's book came out and this is an academic freedom issue.
But the problem is with academics is even though they don't know, even though they understand the full totality practically of psychological, psychiatric explanations, what they don't understand Is that we in the research community also understand all those explanations, and we spent years and years and years exploring them, all of which don't make any sense in terms of this phenomenon.
Indeed, Professor, which is why people should be listening carefully, very carefully, to every word you say.
All right, in the final half hour, I'm going to open the phones.
If you have My guest is Professor David M. Jacobs, a professor of history at Temple University in Philadelphia.
His book is The Threat, and it is a no-holds-barred explanation of really what's going on out there.
It is not necessarily a cute read.
It's certainly a riveting read, but cute it is not.
And so I know he wouldn't do it.
I'm going to do it for him.
This book, I would certainly presume, is going to be available nationwide and is probably available nationwide now, but we do have a number for you.
If you would like to order a copy of The Thread, you can actually call right now, right this minute.
There are wise people out there, some wise people, who know how to market, and they actually have operators standing by at this time of night.
I try to encourage my sponsors to do that.
If you would like to order a copy of this very, very controversial book called The Threat, you can do so right now by calling 1-800-905-8367.
1-800-905-8367.
I repeat, 1-800-905-8367.
And operators are sitting about now waiting to hear from you.
Thank you.
I'm not exactly sure what the price is.
I think it might be in the order of about $23, but that's just a guess.
We'll find out.
Are you having arthritis pain?
There are obvious questions, so let's go to the phones.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor David Jacobs.
Yes, Dr. Jacobs, I'd like to ask you a question.
All right, where are you calling from?
Okay, I'm calling from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Okay.
And what I would like to know, the products, I guess, are the hybrids that are being produced here apparently by these beings.
Will these hybrids know that they are part alien or will they be introduced as children and brought up as part of a regular family someplace?
That is an excellent question.
Thank you for that.
And actually, what we see here is a very different kind of hybrid situation than people had thought before.
Back in the old days, I used to think that the way in which hybrids are produced was basically by taking your common sperm and your common egg and putting them together and then either altering the fertilized egg or injecting some sort of alien DNA, if I can even say that, if there is
such a thing.
And then coming up with a bell-shaped curve of hybrid. Some look more human,
some look more alien, most look in the middle. Actually what I think that is
going on is a little bit more complicated.
They do do that, but then they take sperm and egg, put them together, and they inject the DNA from the hybrid that was produced into the new fertilized egg, and then you get a spectrum that looks much more human.
Then you take sperm and egg and you inject DNA from that generation of hybrid and then
you get one to look even more human.
And so what we're seeing here is a sort of refining of the species and when you get that
you're towards the end and what I call late stage hybrids, they really are human for all
intents and purposes.
And most of them are quite aware that they look different, that they have different emotions
and a different thought process to a certain extent than normal kind of aliens.
And what we have found is that there's a certain, for some aliens, I'm sorry, some hybrids,
they sort of want to live here and they want to be more human.
Others want to dominate others.
We find a spectrum of sort of psychological reaction to their own existence, in a way, in the stories that we've heard.
This is a very, very complicated business, but there is a very great degree of self-awareness of themselves, their role, their relationship to humans, their relationship to the aliens, and what's going to happen in the future.
Okay.
Well, thank you very much.
All right.
Thank you, Kohler.
Doctor, I'm curious.
You may recall the Heaven's Gate suicides?
Yes.
There is breaking news that Chuck Humphries, the man I interviewed, as a matter of fact, not long ago, has now followed on Purple Shroud, Appropriate Dress and all, and has committed suicide.
Do you have any comment on the Heaven's Gate suicides and does it have any relationship whatsoever, in your opinion, to What's going on?
Well, I don't, but I mean, I don't really have a comment and I don't think it has any relation to what's going on, but in a larger sense, I think that what we're seeing here is the effects of this phenomenon that has been with us for at least, at least in public awareness, since 1947 and probably for the past hundred years, that is all pervasive, that is consistent, as persistent is a global and just will not go away and has no relation
to the society and then what you see is that you're going to get a large
spectrum of reactions to it. Exactly, that was where I was going. In other
words, is this in the possible spectrum of
abhorrent reactions?
Right.
I think those reactions are based more on just pure speculation rather than knowledge and using sort of an alien sort of model in a religious sense or whatever.
And I think that most of the people who are engaged in these cults Oh, that's true.
to do with earthly religions than with knowledge on any kind of serious basis of this unusual
phenomenon that is befalling us.
But yet at the same time, we see alien faces all over the place on bumper stickers, on
the back of bicycles, there's alien pops of candies.
It's just everywhere.
It pervades the society and people are going to be affected by it one way or another over
time.
Conditioned.
Yes.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
Where are you, please?
Good evening.
Philadelphia?
Yes, sir.
Right there.
A couple quick questions.
You should be in bed at play.
You've had a couple of differences have been reported, different species by different researchers and individuals from North America versus Brazil or Great Britain, for instance.
I was wondering, you sort of seem to group them all together in this overarching hierarchy.
I'm sort of wondering why you're so convinced that there's so much necessarily negative intent when a lot of the different abduction reports that have come through have a sort of positive spin on them, as far as giving us new information and so on, how to keep ourselves from blowing up the plan and so forth.
Actually, that has not taken place.
No real serious information from this phenomenon that has helped us at any time from what we can gather.
We have not had any kind of knowledge gained from this phenomenon yet, in spite of what everybody thinks.
Ben Caller, if you could name any, it would be a good moment.
You know what, Art, I will try to email that to you tomorrow.
There's been a variety of different reports that I've seen that have included sort of visions of the future, this is what will happen to you guys if you don't straighten out your own geopolitics and so forth.
Oh yes, well the professor mentioned that earlier and I'll look forward to that email.
But I really couldn't sit here myself and name any great advanced cancer cures, new modes of travel, propulsion systems, whatever.
I really couldn't name any I know for sure, so I've got to agree with you, Professor.
Well, my guess is if they were here to help us, they would have helped us.
That's a very good point.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
Hello.
Hi, this is Rich in Minnesota.
Hi, Rich.
I read The Secret Life and I really enjoyed that book.
I hope you're not offended, but I had to get it off my shelf.
It spooked the hell out of me.
But my question is, two of them real quick.
Have you seen this tape that Art's selling?
What's that, an alien interview?
No, actually, caller, let me ask about not just that, but something else that is even more relevant.
But first, the alien interview represented to be an alien interviewed more like interrogated at Area 51.
Are you familiar with that at all, doctor?
I saw little bits and pieces of it.
I haven't seen the whole thing.
There you are.
They showed that on a couple of TV shows.
We market the entire tape.
That's what the caller was referring to.
But I would rather ask you About an ongoing big controversy, and that is the UPN television show about the abduction at Clear Lake.
Right, I did see that.
Oh, you did see that.
Well, what are your comments?
Well, you know, this was a staged event using actors.
It was a scripted play, and it really did not relate to the abduction phenomenon as we know it.
What we have here is sort of aliens who are laying siege to these poor people and and and they're sort of running back and forth running when
they what's happening in people are disappearing in
on on on uh... in actuality the abduction phenomenon is all lot more
subtle than than mister clumsy business that we saw in
and normally people are not gauge along involved conversations about what's happening
to them at the time uh... and the reason is is because
the environment is controlled people can't run they can't grab the phone and dial nine one one or go into
the kitchen and get their machete out or something
they they uh... when the abduction begins It's already too late for the people to do something usual.
Well, here's what I really want to ask you about it.
I mean, most of us have concluded, particularly with the running of the credits at the end, and credits given to the actors playing Alien 1 and Alien 2, that this was not a real event.
Right.
Duh.
Where does this kind of thing possibly fit into the larger conditioning, like the t-shirt with the alien on it and all the rest?
Does it fit into that category?
Well, I think it does, but you have to sort of narrow down to the pursuit of the almighty dollar in these situations.
UFOs get ratings.
People are intrigued by it.
They're fascinated by it.
They watch anything that has to do with it.
Why?
Well, I think that, number one, it's intrinsically interesting to humans, the idea of life outside of ourselves.
I think that's an intrinsically interesting idea.
And number two, I think that people realize somewhere in the back of their brains That this phenomenon may be real, that there's a jackpot here, that there's a payoff, so to speak, and it gives it that kind of tantalizing quality that I think that a lot of media people are picking up on, and some responsibly and some irresponsibly, like I thought that UPN show was.
I thought it was more of a hoax on the public than a straight dramatic type thing.
Well, I do think that.
So what you're suggesting in your book, though, very strongly is that the payoff at the end
may be more like a pink slip.
Well, I do think that.
I think that this is a subject that we cannot just sort of float around and, pardon the
pun, just sort of looking at it from a la-dee-da type of attitude.
I think we have to begin to look very, very seriously at exactly what is happening.
I've tried to answer a serious scientific question in this book, and pardon me for using scientific jargon when I mount this question to you.
The question that I've tried to answer is, quote, just what the hell do you think they're here for?
End quote.
Yeah.
And when you look at it that way, and when you look at it very coolly, I think that this is a matter of enormous concern.
I think that this is a matter of enormous concern.
We have to take a step back and have cool heads prevail in this subject and see just what the hell they are here for.
Pardon my French.
Alright, well let's try it from this approach then.
Let us for a second assume there is no secret government.
There is nobody dealing with this threat.
In the government, the one we know and vote for or the other one if there is one, let's assume that none of that's going on, then what advice do you have to everybody listening?
How do we as a society start to deal with this?
Well, that's a $64,000 question.
$64,000 question. Well, it's a $64,000 answer. It's over.
In a way, I just don't know how we can deal with it, and you might be right about that.
The problem with that question, and that is the ultimate question, is not enough talent and energy and brain power has been applied to that problem.
People have not sat around systematically and tried to figure out what are the problems with getting at this, and if we can't understand this, how can we stop it?
I think we're dealing with a multi-level problem here.
One of the major problems is the fact that this is a clandestine kind of business going on here.
This is secret.
And it is an enormously successful secret program.
We don't know who the vast majority, maybe 99.9% of abductees are.
And we may never know that, in fact.
So stopping the phenomenon globally, and this is a global phenomenon, is going to take a Herculean effort that I just don't know if we can do that.
Doctor, though he hates it when I mention his name, I can't resist.
John Lear is a good friend of mine.
I interviewed John Lear as long ago as a decade, Doctor.
And at that time, he had progressed through many, many, many years of ufology, and he was concluding toward the end, it's over.
Forget it.
It's over.
And what you should do, his advice, when I asked the question I asked of you a moment ago, his advice was, enjoy your life, enjoy your family, and enjoy the time you have left.
You know, I think that's true.
I think that people have to lead their lives knowing that this might happen and may actually happen and yet lead it as if it's not going to happen because you have no choice.
There's not much you can do other than live in despair and I don't want to live in despair.
I want to be happy, you know.
I can remember sitting in Borders bookstore, if I may mention that, writing the last couple of chapters of this book, and I remember getting all my transcripts together where beings talked about the future, what's going to happen in the future, and putting them all together and seeing what the commonalities were and what the patterns were and all that.
I remember actual waves of fear coming over me, and just thinking, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, what is this?
And that fear, I think, is realistic.
I've never been frightened about this phenomenon ever in my life, and I've written an awful lot about it and done a lot of lecturing and all that sort of stuff, and it's never frightened me.
But now I have to admit that I really don't like this phenomenon anymore.
I don't like studying it.
I don't like dealing with it.
I am scared of it, and it's something that distresses me greatly.
Will you continue or will this be it for you?
No, I'm continuing.
I've just, in fact, been getting some new abductees.
The problem is that people really need help and they need to deal with this subject.
Here in Philadelphia, there's almost nobody else who does this sort of thing.
My responsibility is to help people deal with this as best they can, and that's sort of what I've been doing.
All right, we may have time for one last question.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Jacobs.
Where are you, please?
Hi Art, this is Ron from Grand Junction, Colorado.
All right, we're short on time.
Right, I just wanted to ask you, how can I talk to my friends and family if they don't think I'm nuts?
And do you have any hint when this program may be over?
Oh, that's a very, very good question.
How can he talk to his friends and family about this topic?
Right.
You know, everybody is different.
For example, I received an email just yesterday from a person who was saying that his wife is totally unsympathetic and thinks that he's nuts every time he broaches the subject.
He sent me this email and he wants me to respond in a different way because she might see the email.
Other people are very supportive.
You know, each person has to sort of decide for himself.
That comes down to interpersonal relations.
I used to tell them, just give him a copy of my book, you know, and then let him read it.
That's a secret life.
I don't know if I should do that with the threat, but there is no easy answer to that.
And the question, the other question is, when will this happen?
Well, right.
These beings say soon, soon, soon.
Well, what do you mean by soon?
And what they say essentially is anywhere from let's just say the next few years until 40 years from now.
That's what basically abductees speculate about.
And in my opinion, any time is too soon.
I would rather be left alone, thank you very much.
I think that humans can lurch to their own society for good, for bad, for evil.
I think that we have the capacity.
I think that we're basically good.
I think we have the capacity to do things in our own interest that will help people.
And I have a lot of faith in humans in spite of everything and I think we can do it ourselves.
Thank you.
Doctor, how is the UFO community very quickly reacting to your book?
Is it being embraced or rejected?
Well, it's still a little bit too early so I don't know.
I know that when I wrote Secret Life there was a fair amount of cynicism about it and And they felt that I was much too rigid and this and that, but I think all of them have come to accept what I said in that book, and so I think that there's going to be a lag time now, and I think this thing will happen.
And if it's going to happen, the other shoe will fall later.
All right.
Professor, we're out of time.
Thanks a million.
A wonderful interview.
We will do it again.
Thanks, Art.
I appreciate it.
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