Richard C. Hoagland, former NASA advisor and Ingstrom Science Award winner, exposes NASA’s alleged suppression of high-resolution Mars Global Surveyor images—including a February 1998 pass over the Cydonia region—despite public demands to investigate the "humanoid face" and other geometric anomalies, citing trillions-to-one odds against natural formation. He accuses NASA of decades-long cover-ups, from the Challenger disaster (where a contractor disabled critical telemetry sensors 60 minutes before launch) to the 1993 Mars Observer "black program" claims, linking failures like Delta and Titan rockets to potential sabotage while other nations advanced. Hoagland warns of internal manipulation, including Dan Golden’s retracted memo canceling manned spaceflight research, and demands transparency, urging listeners to fax NASA officials (202-358-2810) and media figures like Ted Koppel (ABC) and John Holloman (CNN) to force disclosure of Phoenix Pathfinder and STS-80 shuttle mission footage revealing "remarkable propulsion systems." The episode suggests a systemic effort to hide extraterrestrial evidence, questioning humanity’s collective amnesia about ancient Martian civilizations or advanced off-world technology. [Automatically generated summary]
Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from east of the Rockies dial 1 800-8255033 1-800-825-5033 West of the Rockies including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico 1-800-618-8255 1-800-618-8255.
So we're going to get to all of that, and in about an hour, we'll bring on yet another man with Richard who knows something about the Challenger accident.
Put that in quotes, please, for me.
So that's what's directly ahead.
What I'm about to do right now, I do with the utmost hesitation and trepidation.
As you may or may not know, I have a voice changer.
For the last two years, people have been begging to know where this voice changer came from, how I got it, how much is it, where can I get one, and I have resisted at every question, and there have been gazillions of them, simply because I knew that if I were to make the voice changer available to all of you, you would hook it up and use it on me.
So with great trepidation, I do the following.
You know what a voice changer is?
Well, let me help you out.
unidentified
It allows you to do something like this with your voice.
That's right.
You can become evil.
You can become a person you're not now.
You can become...
Now, there are other possibilities.
If you're a man and you don't want to sound like a man, you can simply slowly adjust up your voice changer until you're nearly a woman.
And now you're barely human.
Now you're more like an alien.
So I'm demonstrating to you what can be done with a voice changer right before your very ears.
Again, I do this with a very serious amount of trepidation.
There are legitimate uses for a voice changer, and none of them include calling up a talk show host.
Do you understand?
Having said that, we have the best.
Of course, we found the best, and it's the one like I have, digitally processing your voice so that if you wish it, even your own mother will not know who you are.
Now, I overemphasize the changes.
You can do it, you know, you make them much lighter.
A man can become a woman saying, well, nobody's home, or he's not home.
Or a woman, even more impressively, can become a man late at night.
There are many uses for this, many of which I would beg you not to utilize.
You can call people up and utterly, totally freak them out.
You don't have to take your phone apart.
This voice changer goes between the telephone handset and the telephone.
You know, you just, when it arrives, you just plug it in.
Boom.
It uses four AA batteries.
It's 16-bit digital technology.
It's portable.
It's easy to use.
And if you call me with it, I'll have you, I'll wring your little neck.
Do you hear me?
Having said that, if you want a voice changer, Bob Crane now has them in stock for $69.95.
I swear, if you people call me up with this, I'll wring your necks.
So I'm with great trepidation selling these.
$69.95.
And we may not sell that many either.
So if you want one, call Bob Crane in the morning at 7.30 a.m.
And finally, here it is, the voice changer.
$69.95.
I probably shouldn't be doing this.
We encourage you to use it only in a responsible manner.
Do you understand?
The number is 1-800-522-8863.
That's one.
Why am I doing this?
1-800-522-8863.
This may not last very long, so you better grab them while they're there.
Nothing to lose but the fact.
There are clearly unethical uses for a voice changer, and those include husbands calling wives.
Those include calling people that you want to get in trouble with the opposite sex.
There are a lot of very unethical uses of a voice changer.
So I urge any of you out there who decide to buy one to take an ethical pledge before you take the plunge.
I don't know whether we ought to be doing this.
All right, to the Albuquerque, New Mexico area, and a voice you have not heard in quite some time, that of a one-time advisor to NASA, Walter Cronkite, Ingstrom Science Award winner, Richard C. Hoagland.
And it reached Mars on September 11th, 1997, the night that we very specifically held a press conference and conference in Pasadena just down the street from JPL.
And since September, it has been in what's called an arrow-breaking orbit, an initial highly elliptical orbit, 45 hours in length, with a low point about 150 miles above the surface of Mars.
Lost in space, yes, under curious circumstances, to say the least.
It also carries a number of other instruments, you know, imaging in the infrared, measurements of global magnetic fields, measurements of electrified particles.
But primarily, we in the Enterprise mission are concerned with the images because those are the data that can either confirm or deny the hypothesis that on the surface of Mars, tonight.
At Sidonia and other places, there are potentially artificial structures built by someone, a hypothesis which can be resoundingly confirmed by this mission and which just before his death, Carl Sagan, no less a personage than, called for the intensive reimage to settle the question once and for all.
And it's the same technology that is in your chip camera, in your camcorder.
But it's a military spec or NASA spec as opposed to civilian.
So it's more resistant to radiation, it's got more latitude, it's got redundant computer tricks in the software.
As people who may have been perusing the NASA websites in the last several months since September may have noticed that the pictures, black and white and color, coming from the mission so far, have been nothing short of breathtaking and spectacular.
All right, now, let me stop you right there, because it was my understanding, Richard, that they had called all of that off, and they said the first images from Mars Global Surveyor would not be seen for about a year.
And the philosophy of Surveyor, building on the philosophy of Mars Orbiter, was basically to do that kind of global mapping with multiple spectral technology, meaning instruments that could see in the visible and in the infrared,
and to build a global database not only of what the stuff looks like down there at extraordinary resolution for selected areas with lower resolution for the whole planet, but also to get surveys of the mineral composition.
This is a mission which, in any sense, is going down in the history books if it proceeds, because it'll give us the first global sense of what there is on Mars to work with.
Sure.
Previous missions have not had this capability or an extraordinarily crude level.
Given the state of the art now, we really, at the end of this mission, two years nominally down the road, will know Mars like no one has ever known it.
The Mars Global Surveyor is part of the faster, cheaper blah, blah, blah, blah.
And for that reason, they're arrow-braking.
Now, all that means is that when they get in the vicinity of Mars, they use the atmosphere of Mars to slow the spacecraft to an orbit that they're satisfied with.
In December, right after launch, actually the launch was in November, and I was at the Cape, and I was actually in the press center.
And very quickly after launch, we got engineering data that afternoon, a bright sunny day at the Cape in November.
That afternoon, we got data that one of the two solar panels, which had to be deployed, like unfolded in orbit in space once the spacecraft was headed for Mars, did not deploy exactly as planned.
There was some kind of gunk or metallic particles or whatever in one of the hinges, like having something stuck in the screen door hinge.
They couldn't open the panel totally to where it would click into place and lock.
Now, in zero gravity, it doesn't make much, you know, there's really no problem because it was very close to being deployed.
In fact, we were quoted that the angle from full deployment was, you're not going to like this art, 19.5 degrees.
Anyway, they get to Mars, and these panels were to function kind of like wings in the aerobraking mode.
You've got these two straight rectangular panels sticking out on both sides of the central spacecraft, and they provide the air resistance on each pass through the atmosphere to slow you down a little bit.
And there's not a lot of mass up there, so that a little bit of energy makes the atmosphere inflate.
And it's the inflation that increases the density and increases the aerobraking rate.
And this all happened very suddenly.
And it had to do with the seasonal cycles on Mars and what the sun was doing at that time in terms of sunspots and flares and energy streaming across space.
So the panel apparently bent backward past the lock position.
And that's when they realized that it wasn't just that it was not locked, it was that it couldn't ever get locked because there was something, some grit in the hinge.
And they were afraid that they would break it, which means they could sever electrical connections.
And if you lost, let's say, if a crack appeared at the base, you could lose two-thirds of the electricity coming from the panel outward of the crack.
So you could really jeopardize the entire mission, which is very power-limited.
So they quickly backed off from that.
They raised the orbit using the thrusters.
They waited a few weeks trying to figure out the problem.
And then they more gingerly dipped it into the atmosphere at a higher altitude so there's less air density and less aerobraking and less flexure of those panels.
And then they told us that, well, because this is now going to happen at a much lower rate, gosh, guys, instead of being in the right mapping orbit by March of this year, March of 1998, they would not be in the proper circular mapping orbit until March of 1999.
Now, what you need to do is imagine in your mind, close your eyes, folks.
You're listening to your radio.
You don't watch the pictures.
Imagine Mars as a rusty, reddish ball, and you've got this pencil-thin, brilliant red line, elliptical, arrowing down over the poles, around the equator, under the South Pole, and back into space, much closer on one side of Mars than on the other.
Yeah, the problem is that at the lowest point, you're doing your aero braking.
So what Malin has done with a vast number of very dedicated and clever people at NASA is got this duty cycle where they basically have the spacecraft oriented for the aerobraking phase.
They then, when they get back up a little bit, like maybe at 200 miles, they switch the spacecraft around so the camera's pointing down and they take over for a few minutes, between 25 and maybe 6 minutes, a strip of pictures, put it in the memory, and then when the spacecraft climbs back up to the high point, they dump the memory through the radio down to the ground station on the Earth several million miles away.
Michael Malan is the one that decided spectacular images caught kind of on the fly in the non-circular orbit, and everything's worked well up until the announcement that Dr. Malin made a few days ago.
The reason I'm faxing is to ask if you have heard anything about a sighting of a large disc or round object having been sighted over Phoenix on Saturday at about 5.25 p.m.
There was a short note on KFYI's John Dell show Saturday afternoon, but nothing since.
Supposedly, the object was sighted over the area of Buckeye Road and 27th Avenue 4.
F-16s were also sighted at the same time.
When the aircraft approached the area of the object, the object was reported to have simply disappeared.
Yes, I've had at least a dozen reports of a large object sighted over Phoenix.
But I've waited until now, this makes about the 12th report that I've received, before mentioning anything to all of you.
But it does look like there have been more sightings over Phoenix and down in Texas as well.
For whatever that's worth, and you know what I'm thinking about, I'm sure.
All right.
Tell them you want the ignition system Art Bell has on his Hot Rod Metro.
It's like a heart transplant for your car.
That's 1-800-627-8800.
And check out their webpage at www.jacobselectronics.com.
Well, all right, back now to Richard C. Hoagland.
And Richard, so here we have this surveyor, Mars Global Surveyor, in this elliptical orbit coming very close to Sidonia, in fact about 150 miles above Sidonia with the grandest opportunity to ever image that we will ever get.
But there's no guarantee that these opportunities coming up are going to be directly over Sidonia.
Only the team and NASA and Melan know for sure what the exact geometry is.
But it's going to come close.
And even if it was a slant range of, let's say, 500 miles to the side, it would be twice as good as we got from Viking, which was over 1,000 miles above Sidonia when it took those famous pictures.
This orbit, of course, is fixed in space in terms of its orientation, left and right.
But in terms of the way that ellipse is slowly sliding around Mars in a north-south direction, the low point right in January was in the southern hemisphere.
At the rate of a few degrees per day, it is walking its way north.
And it crossed the equator, I guess, sometime in the last few days.
Dr. Michael Malin was the developer of this specific camera.
He came to NASA at the same time in 1986 that we came to NASA at the University of Colorado at a major conference.
And next to our poster board session on the artifacts of Sidonia, Dr. Malin had a poster board session basically asking NASA to put his camera on the Mars observer spacecraft.
I've worked with anthropologists and others who have compared it, you know, photometrically to other humanoid faces in the fossil record, primitive ancestors in the human family.
But straight out, we might be looking at our own ancient ancestors, right?
Yes.
All right, now, Dr. Van Slandren, the astronomer?
Yes.
Recently said, and I quoted him quite frequently, that society had better prepare itself because as far as he was concerned, the odds are far greater, and I forget he even gave the odds, that this object at Cydonia,
this face, is real, is not a natural object, and it's going to really destroy a lot of paradigms and cause much, when they reimage it, there's every possibility it will cause great disruption in society when we realize what we have.
And I talked to Tom last night, and he reaffirms that position.
By the way, he says hello to everyone from somewhere in Quito, Ecuador, where he is about to step onto a cruise ship and go out and chase the eclipse of the sun that will sweep across the Pacific on Friday.
Well, remember, our work puts the face in a larger context.
We have looked at the other structures around this object that has drawn so much attention, the pyramids and the other very geometric and highly organized looking things.
We have discovered through Errol Torren's work on our team that it's a specific geometry.
It makes predictions.
In Monuments of Mars, my book, which is now in its fourth printing, I go through the very elaborate calculations of odds that all that geometry and all that precise positioning could be coincidental in one little tiny piece of real estate some 25 miles across, smaller than the Bay Area up in San Francisco.
They're trillions to one that this could be accidental.
Trillions to one.
Now, I'm not the only individual who's done the calculations.
Dr. Horace Crater, who is with the Space Science Laboratory at the University of Tennessee, has done a much more detailed analysis and a much more rigorous analysis in incorporating additional structures, additional positioning, additional geometry.
And the odds, you know, literally go off the page.
It's like 25 zeros after the one against this being chance.
Well, in that case, thank God because the Mars Global Surveyor is about to pass at low altitude over Sidonia, and we are going to have sparkling pictures that will settle this forever, right?
All right, this is from the Malin Space Science Systems website.
The title is Mars Global Surveyor, Mars Orbiter Camera.
The subtitle is Mars Orbiter Camera MOC High Resolution Images, parent shown by Vice President Gore on 2298.
Mission and Camera Update.
As of January 31, 1998, the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft has completed 112 orbits of Mars, during which it has reduced its orbital period from 45 to 19 hours.
The local time at the equator of that orbit has decreased from roughly 6 p.m. to about 12.30 p.m.
On February 16th, that was a few days ago, the Sun will be in the orbit plane, that is local noon.
Thereafter, the orbits will be in the morning rather than the afternoon.
Now let me tell you why that's exciting, because Viking, of course, took its best shots from Sidonia in afternoon light.
If we got really crisp new images from Surveyor in morning light, then people like Mark Carlato with today's imaging algorithms and computer 3D modeling could put those two sets of data together and give us an astonishing,
incredibly rigorous scientific 3D view of the whole landscape, all the geometry, all the structures, and compare and test all the things we suspect from the one lighting angle that we got, even though we have two separate pictures at two different angles above the horizon.
The Mars Orbiter Camera has been imaging the planet each orbit shortly after passing through the atmosphere, as I described before.
To image, the spacecraft rotates and sweeps the camera field of view across the planet.
After using relatively long rollouts, 25 minutes, to acquire pictures of the southern hemisphere earlier in January, by month's end, the rollouts had been shortened to six minutes owing to spacecraft power limitations.
Only images between 10 degrees north and 7 degrees south can be taken at present.
Continued power conservation and increasing spacecraft team workload associated with the shorter orbits may require turning the camera off soon.
Now, I have run the technical aspects of what I just read past several people, people who know orbits, and I also ran it past Dr. David Webb, who was one of the participants in this key November meeting I discussed at some length on our last show.
Dr. Webb, who, by the way, is not in very good health, so, you know, somebody say a prayer for him, please, confirmed that in that meeting, they discussed these power limitations, the orbit geometry, and all that, and the guys who were in the meeting were assured by the head of solar system exploration and his deputy that those constraints would not impact on the acquisition of Sidonia photography in March.
Well, I don't believe in coincidence at this level, Richard.
even i don't even i uh...
what i knew about all this of course and i got You know, I understand that the scientists may feel there are more interesting areas of Mars to examine, but I don't.
And a lot of the astronomers don't.
And sure as hell, the American people don't.
So the question is, what can this audience do to apply some pressure at the right points?
Well, it's very curious you bring that up because this occasion, this question arose about a year ago when we were, in essence, kicked off the NASA press site back in November, December when the spacecraft left.
At that time, you and I called for concerned Americans who gave a damn about this to send faxes to Dan Golden.
And we have it on excellent authority, basically because John Holloman also was receipt of many of these, that tens of thousands of Americans literally inundated NASA headquarters, Golden's office fax line, which we're paying for, of course, so it's not his private home fax line.
Now, what we have subsequently learned is that there was a very sophisticated, high-level targeting of the Enterprise mission, and that targeting continues as of tonight.
I have received a death threat in a very interesting and curious way.
At the same time, there is a very despicable effort to take away the Enterprise Mission headquarters north of Albuquerque as we speak tonight.
This is a broad-front attack on an effort to simply get this agency to live up to its commitments to the American people and follow what Golden said last November, that we would get to see pictures of Sidonia on this mission, and instead they are now turning off the camera just before the geometry is appropriate.
According to Dr. Webb, who is in the meeting, who I talked to last night, and who would be on the show with me tonight if it weren't for grave health conditions, he has had a stroke, all right?
He is coherent.
He is not in paralysis, but he is in an extraordinary fragile condition, and I could not prevail upon him to do even a few minutes to confirm.
As a matter of fact, if anybody wants to confirm what we have said before they write an angry letter, and hopefully these letters will be not angry, even if you're very angry.
And when I heard about all this, I was damn angry.
Write a logical letter or facts.
And we're going to give you Dan Golden's fax number, aren't we?
Let me tell you why it's important we give these two others.
If you send faxes to Dan Golden, he simply puts them in the wastebasket.
If you send a copy of your facts to the media, to the people that I know are honest, Coppel and Holloman, Golden will have to answer the faxes you send to NASA headquarters.
All right, so in other words, people should send the facts originally to Dan Golden and C.C. in other words, a carbon copy, Ted Coppel and Holloman at CNN, right?
It's not only something they can, it's something they should.
You and I have done hundreds of hours.
And there's a lot of critics and a lot of attacks that claim that I'm not being scientific, that we're making stuff up.
The idea that you have the pivotal opportunity of once in a lifetime to test a theory that goes to the heart of the reason for the existence of NASA itself.
All right, listen, I'm going to give this information again for those of you who may have just run to get a paper and a pencil.
Please, folks, send these faxes and simply make a good, fair, intellectual argument that Dan Golden keep his promise.
And if need be, order Dr. Michael Malin to keep the camera on just a little bit longer so we can finally settle this very important argument.
If the odds say this face and those artifacts are not natural, it is one of the most important stories that mankind has ever had the opportunity to investigate and finally settle.
Dan Golden's fax number is area code 202.
Please help out here.
202-358-2810.
Again, 202-358-2810.
Now, you want to be sure and copy.
Richard is correct about this.
Two of the people that we consider to be very fair.
One is Ted Coppel at ABC, and that number is Area Code 202-222-7976.
And then John Holloman at CNN.
Copy him as well at area code 404-681-3578.
And I'll be repeating those numbers as we come out of this next hour, and we're going to have more for you.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland.
And never have I thought we had a more worthy opportunity to do something very important for all of mankind.
Tonight we have that opportunity.
So if you don't have the numbers yet, get a paper and a pencil, and I'll repeat them for you.
I'm Mark Bell from the High Wet Desert.
unidentified
This is Coast to Coast A.M. If
you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine, send it to him at Area Code 702-727-8499.
This is a night that you can actually make a difference.
So please, if you have access to a fax machine, if you can go to Kinko's, if you can get a fax machine, however, you've got one on your computer, I don't care.
Please go get a pencil and a paper, and I will quickly recap what we've done in this last hour.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland, and we have what I would call a crisis situation in space.
I'll explain it in a moment.
800-562-6438, briefly recapping, inadequately recapping what has occurred in the last hour.
It's a real shocker.
Now, I want you to know you can verify what I am about to tell you by going to my website right now, simply scrolling down to the Enterprise Mission link, or for all I know, they may have a link with Richard Hoagland's name that'll take you directly to the Enterprise Mission, and reading the sorry details.
Dr. Michael Malin is in charge of the camera operation on the Mars Global Surveyor.
The Mars Global Surveyor is in March, the month of, coming up, about to pass 150 miles above, directly above the Sidonia region.
Dr. Michael Malin has ordered the camera shut off at a moment when we could get the highest resolution photographs of the Mars Cidonia region with a face and with all the artifacts and once and for all settle this question about whether or not these artifacts are man-made, alien-made, whatever.
And you've got to remember, Tom Van Flandren has been saying you better get ready for a shock because these objects are not natural.
He's been saying that and he's absolutely right.
Except that at the very moment when we're going to get photographs that would settle all of this from this spacecraft with this incredible camera on it, Dr. Michael Malin is about to order the camera be turned off.
We are enlisting your help, your assistance right now to get this turned around.
The way we would like you to assist is as follows.
Please fax the head of NASA, Dan Golden, at his office fax number, so it is a taxpayer fax machine.
Do not write an outrageously angry letter.
Please write a logical, proper, insistent letter that Dan Golden order this camera remain on until we get the photographs of Sidonia.
Remembering that Dan Golden promised the American people he would image Cydonia at every opportunity.
Well, the golden opportunity is about to occur, and they're going to turn the damn camera off.
So fax Dan Golden, please, and copy Ted Coppel and John Holloman.
And I'm going to tell you now how to do that.
You can fax Dan Golden at area code 2023 2810.
Area code 202-358-2810.
Please send copies of your facts to Ted Coppel at ABC at area code 2022 7976.
That's Ted Coppel at ABC at area code 2022 7976.
Also copy John Holliman at CNN at area code 404-681-3578.
That's area code 404-681-3578.
Continue trying over the next couple of days until you manage to get through.
I very rarely request the assistance of my audience directly in this sort of thing.
But I think that unless we turn this around and turn it around now, it will quickly be too late.
The opportunity will be lost, and there is every possibility we will get no more pictures of the Sidonia region from Mars Global Surveyor.
Yeah, I want to add a couple points, because this, you know, as Alex would say in Alice in Wonderland, which this is more and more resembling as opposed to the science we used to expect out of NASA, is just getting curiouser and curiouser.
Last November, there was a copyrighted article in the Philadelphia Inquirer by a writer named Faye Flam, F-L-A-M.
And the headline read, Mars probe to check out that familiar face.
Stateline Philadelphia.
With the Mars Global Surveyor in orbit around the red planet, NASA plans to try to update its fuzzy photos of the so-called face on Mars, an image made famous by supermarket tabloids.
Well, it's also been in the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post and a few places like that.
At the bottom of the article, there's an extraordinary statement quoted to or attributed to Malin himself.
Malin said the new photos, meaning the ones from his camera, no matter how good, still might not settle the issue.
What we have here is an extraordinary religious bias.
Now, let me quote to you another authority who is perhaps a little more tempered on this tonight than I might be.
This is from Dr. Stan McDaniel, dated November 30th, 97, in response to the Philadelphia Inquirer quotation.
He says here, we are especially disturbed by the comments quoted from Dr. Michael Malin, who is not a NASA spokesperson, but a private contractor.
Dr. Malin has regularly shown that he has a mistaken understanding of Dr. Mark Corrado's procedures.
That's the imaging expert that was on our enterprise mission team some years ago.
His statement, Malin's statement, that if the face on Mars turns out in higher resolution images to still look like a face, this would prove nothing, is particularly reprehensible, said McDaniel.
It would appear that the actual believers are not those in the opposite camp who will not accept the new data unless it suits their preconceived ideas of reality.
In other words, the reason, I mean, ask yourself this.
Well, Malin, it is my understanding, has a proprietary period when only he sees them and then, as a contractor, and then releases them to the public and or he releases them right away.
The reason we have this camera on there is to take extraordinarily good state-of-the-art images, to feedback to a team of scientists, primarily geologists at NASA under contract, who will then look at those images to decide what Mars is like.
It's called remote sensing.
We're not on Mars, the camera's above Mars, we remotely send the data back.
And as Ron Nix has said eloquently on your show several times, who is one of our geologists on Enterprise's team, there are no Martian geologists.
There are earthly geologists looking at Martian images of Martian geology and interpreting them through the lenses of earthly experience with terrestrial geology.
Which means, Dr. Malin, that every analysis of every image and every pixel and every feature is based on experience garnered here on planet Earth.
Richard, here's where I, even though I am a truth seeker, Richard, and I am 100% behind this effort to see to it that these photographs are taken, I've got to stop and argue with you a little bit.
And it is my opinion that if we image Sidonia and we come back with unambiguous evidence that these are not natural objects and were put there by either aliens or us many, many, many, many centuries eons ago, that it will so disturb the fabric of society and science that it will be a long time before we recover from it.
And religion, and I could go on and on and on, it will disturb most basic paradigms that we base our belief systems on, Richard.
This is not a trivial or minor thing.
And I know that you disagree with me.
I am prepared to plunge ahead anyway, because I'm a believer in truth, no matter what the results.
The trend curve I see is of ordinary Americans, the folks that we're talking to tonight, who have the guts and the stamina and the stick-to-itiveness to be Americans, to be pioneers, to carve out new terrain and go where no one's gone before, are at the mercy of a handful of,
frankly, mad magicians, elitists, who, out of the one side of their mouth, keep mouthing, giving lip service to the search for truth, for science, for integrity, and on the other side of their mouth, they are double-dealing, they are lying, they are deceiving, and they're hypocrites to the core of their being.
But, Richard, when you're talking to my audience and saying those things, you are preaching to the choir.
If anything, I certainly have an audience that would be capable of assimilating this with, I think, the least amount of disruption in their personal paradigms.
They would learn to accept it because they're broad thinkers.
Because that curve, that middle of the curve, as I keep talking about, who want to know the truth, who are prepared, as Jack Nicholson said, to handle the truth, not to handle it, it's getting bigger.
All right, just before Pasadena, before we showed some astonishing Pathfinder images of the surface at the Pathfinder site, I was invited to do a very right-wing fundamentalist Christian broadcast.
And frankly, I would put the intelligence and perspicacity and inquisitiveness of that audience up against yours any night now because I got as good a set of questions and perspectives, if not better.
And the reason art, the reason art is those people have a moral sense.
And a moral sense says, look, you can't claim you want to have truth, seek truth, know truth, believe in truth, take money from the American people in the pursuit of truth, and then lie to them over and over and over again.
If Dan Golden were to stand up and say, look, guys, you can't handle the truth.
was there that call was very important because it it told this producer that this was serious that even nasa wanted itself to know at the grassroots level and the invitation to go to new york i'm sorry washington and present later that fall came in while they were there when that show appeared on the air and he asked me the question why should christians care see if there's something Is that really the way it was asked?
That was exactly the way.
And I answered it as follows, and I am proud of my answer because I believe in the concept of truth and integrity.
And I looked in the camera and I said, Christians should care because for the last several thousand years, we have lived in the Judeo-Christian tradition under the precept that the search for truth is impelled by a higher power, by the supreme creator, that that is the moral lesson we are supposed to be using every day in our everyday lives as a guidance, as a guidance system, as a star ahead of us, as a beacon to set a pattern for our lives.
He was going to come up to Goddard and sit in the audience at NASA and see our first NASA presentation, our first official invitation, and he couldn't because he didn't have a job.
The fact that one religious fanatic believes something doesn't mean that Christians and religious people believe that.
No, but Richard, stop and listen to me for a second.
You know the kind of show I do.
You listen nearly every night.
You know the topics I cover.
I would say, I'm going to be conservative, Richard.
I'm going to say that 20% of the mail that I get regards me as the Antichrist, regards me as somebody who is giving service to the devil because UFOs and or objects in our sky that can't be accounted for or creatures that might abduct human beings or,
you know, whatever angle of this you want to talk about, are not what I say they are or imagine they might be, but rather representatives of the devil.
I'm just telling you that I'm very aware of what would occur socially and scientifically and religiously if we get the images back and they're unambiguous and they're absolutely not natural objects, Richard.
I know what's going to happen and it ain't going to be pretty.
Well, we have from that cornerstone of the American electorate, from that perspective, we have a lot of discussion about values, family values, society values, getting back to basics, moral integrity.
To me, there is something so radically wrong with dangling the truth while basically fortressing the lie.
And it's the hypocrisy which will do in not only any rational belief in government, but also belief in society as a structure of common purpose as a whole.
You cannot have a lie festering at the center.
You cannot have, as John Dean said 20-some years ago, a cancer on the presidency, a cancer on the Constitution within NASA where we pretend we want to know, but in truth we don't, and we're not going to level, and we'll do everything including lie about power consumption and manpower problems so we don't have to take the pictures.
And you and I are on the side of the angels on this one because ultimately, the American Constitution, which was based on a belief in a supreme being, basically said that when it came to the big questions, if we don't level with people and treat them as adults, nothing else means anything.
We're discussing the photographs that probably are not going to get taken.
If you doubt what we say, go to my website, scroll down to the Enterprise mission, go over there.
You can actually read directly from Michael Millen's website the fact that he intends to, in all probability, turn the cameras off prior to the Sidonia photographs.
If that bothers you, keep listening.
When you think about the future, do you see our economy getting better or worse?
Well, day-to-day in the market, it's really hard to tell.
Who can tell?
I've stopped predicting that long ago, to the relief of a lot of my listeners.
You can learn how to profit in markets like gold, copper, orange juice, heating oil, beans, cattle, commodities.
For three and a half years now, Ken Roberts, who made his millions that way, has been teaching people, just like you, regular people, no IQ 150 required to do what he has done.
As a matter of fact, it's a no-risk approach.
In other words, you begin, you learn, you learn, you learn, you trade on paper, not using real money.
Only When you're absolutely certain that you know what you're doing, do you begin using real money?
And all I can tell you personally is I have had faxes, email letters from people who have done very well, they have become rich.
This is not a get-rich-quick scheme, though, you know, you might get rich.
You also might break out of your 9-to-5 job.
Call now, 1-800-GOLD K-R-C.
There is no obligation.
The material you get is free.
Read it, listen to it, because you get a tape, and decide for yourself.
Once again, 1-800-G-O-L-D-K-R-C, or you want the numbers, and I prefer the numbers, 1-800-465-3572.
How would you like to have a security guard on duty in your home 24 hours a day?
Well, here's the next best thing.
I've got the TA2000.
It's a full-function telephone and oh, so much more.
You see, it's also a revolutionary home security system that plugs directly into a standard phone jack.
The TA-2000 features an infrared motion detector, smoke detector, and medical emergency button.
When any sort of emergency occurs, the TA2000 automatically begins dialing nine pre-programmed numbers until someone answers.
The recipient is alerted as to what kind of emergency is being reported and can react accordingly.
Check them out on the web at www.911home.com.
The TA2000 normally sells for $249.95 with a one-year guarantee.
But here's the Art Bell special.
Tell them I told you to call and the price becomes $199.95.
To order, call TELALERT at 1-888-541-1306.
That's 1-888-541-1306.
I've got the TA 2000 on duty protecting my home with no monthly monitoring fees, and you can do the same.
Simply call 1-888-541-1306.
All right.
One issue that I wish to address with Richard prior to bringing on yet another guest.
It will also be a NASA topic, but very different.
Richard, I want to read you a fax, and this is right down your alley, and I can't resist, and you can react to it, and then we'll move on.
Okay.
It says, Dear Art, hi, great show.
Why do you and Richard believe the camera over Mars will be turned off during the Sidonia region?
I believe the photos underlined will be taken and then hidden from the public.
I mean, you know, we have another couple of hours.
Look, this is a pattern of deception.
The investigation that I've been leading, which now has brought in political people, former NSA intelligence people, archive researchers.
I mean, we have got a broad front analysis of what NASA's been up to stirred in my mind, in my heart, 15 years ago when I saw these pictures from DiPietro Moena, or actually even before, when I saw them at NASA at JPL itself.
And where this will end up, I do not know.
I only know that tonight we're being lied to once again.
I think the Faxer is 100% correct that this is a smokescreen.
This is a plausible, deniability, Washington double-speak reason to ostensibly get the press to accept the logic of turning off the camera when, in fact, the Faxer is extraordinarily perspicacious.
He's right on.
They're going to take the pictures and look.
And then maybe, maybe, given factors we cannot imagine at the moment, they may at some point decide that we, the great unwashed, deserve to see what we're paying for.
And the way you can do it is to fax Dan Golden, who heads NASA and indeed can insist to Dr. Malin that this camera remain on and settle this question once and for all.
Dan Golden's fax number is Area Code 202-358-2810.
That's 202-358-2810.
Please carbon copy both Ted Coppel and John Holloman.
Ted Koppel of ABC News, his fax number is Area Code 202-222-7976.
That's 202-222-7976.
Please keep trying until you get through.
Also copy John Holliman of CNN News at area code 404-681-3578.
404-681-3578.
Now, I am going to receive, I'm going to read to you now a facts, actually email that I received from Ted Tweetmeyer earlier today prior to this program.
And I'm just going to read it.
Arch, I know you get loads of emails, so I'll be very specific.
I am aware that because of current DOD contracts, I now know I am being watched.
When you live in a rural area and someone parks out on the highway reading a newspaper 200 feet down the street from your home, it gets pretty obvious.
But if they want to waste their money on that, so what?
Let me tell you about my background.
I've been working on DOD contracts since the late 70s.
My expertise is in the area of electrical engineering, specifically electronic switching systems.
These systems switch every conceivable kind of signal except a telephony, telegraphy.
I'm going to get that wrong.
Anyway, telephones, all right?
They are at the heart of ground stations and launch telemetry systems.
These handle serial and other launch telemetri systems.
Through another digital data, analog instrumentation, and much more.
When the shuttle Challenger made its last launch, I had already been to complex 39 only two months before the Challenger disaster to Pad B, an identical switching system, is inside the blockhouse at Pad A. As head of the engineering department of the company I worked for, I assisted NASA engineers in software and hardware integration with their computers and systems.
I now own my own switching company, which I started in 1993 with an Army SBIR Phase 1 contract and used it to update development on an optical backplane of which I hold a U.S. patent.
My company now has ongoing contracts with NASA and the Navy.
I fear that my bringing out this information is going to make my life difficult and perhaps my wife's as well.
This email will give you a quick outline of what I actually know.
I do not participate in speculation and look at things very scientifically and as accurately as possible.
I have noticed that you do too.
Note that the switching system has fully redundant power supplies, CPUs, and redundant signal paths.
All are automatic in the event of a fault.
Signal paths are magnetically latched and will stay in place indefinitely without any power.
The switching system was part of the pad measurement system, which is used to track temperatures and stresses on the launch pad.
I came home for lunch and turned on the NASA contract channel, SpaceNet 2 then, to watch the Challenger launch.
I watched the disaster unfold and immediately saw the flames coming out of the solid booster lower seal joint.
I went back to the AUP2.
I went back to the office and finished the day.
The next day, I received a phone call from the prime contractor to whom the switch was sold.
Under.
They stated that, quote, now listen, they lost all the data through the switch from the pad measurement sensors.
End quote.
I was shocked, to say the least.
He noted they would look into it and find out why.
Three.
A week later, I got a phone call from him.
He stated that they discovered the reason.
It was directly related to a prime contractor employee that entered the blockhouse just before launch and just before the external bolting slash securing of the blockhouse blast doors by security and evacuating everyone within a four-mile radius.
They knew exactly who this person was and what company he worked for, and they told me what actually happened.
The prime contractor who bought the switching system also noted that no malfunction could be found when it was tested and that the internal 100% self-diagnostics were run.
This was only part of an extensive internal NASA investigation, the results of which are still not fully public today.
I really don't want to say any more here about this, but if you will contact me, I'll be happy to tell you the incredible ending to this story and the twist it took.
I learned exactly why all the data was lost during the doomed flight, repeating all the data was lost during the doomed flight.
By the way, remind me to tell you about the design review and a local remote control feature that I objected to implementing, but they insisted on.
This had a big impact on why the data was lost.
At any rate, he goes on, but you now have the meat of it.
And though you might not be fully clear on everything I just said, you're about to be, because here is Ted Tweetmeyer.
You two, I know, talked for at least an hour earlier today.
Absolutely.
And I guess I'm still a little bit foggy on this.
I understand that you installed the switching system that I was in the Air Force, and you said earlier today to me, Ted, you know those switches that you don't want to throw by mistake and they put a little cover over them?
And I said, yes, I know them.
Just about everybody, I think, has seen them in movies on aircraft for arming systems and that sort of thing.
So that kind of switch was at the pad in this complex.
And you are suggesting that somebody went in, flipped it up, turned the switch off so that all sensing from the challenger could no longer be read.
Any and all data would then be lost because the remote control would in effect be turned off.
And you're saying this switch was manually thrown by somebody into the off position just prior to launch.
Is that about right?
unidentified
Yes, that is correct.
An engineer for a prime contractor, a company Whose responsibility is for facilities and launch support, one of their engineers entered the facility.
Now, I'd like to first point out a couple things about this.
One is when you go to the Cape, you receive a badge just to get onto the grounds, which stretch over, of course, many miles.
When you go to one of the pad facilities, you get another badge.
So not just any person can actually go into this structure.
It's a very carefully controlled structure.
The pad is surrounded by concertina wire, and there's a fair amount of security involved for good reason.
To elaborate a little bit, the blockhouse is not quite the way one would envision it.
It's a structure built in solid concrete, which is a part of its underground.
The access to it is around the back side of the flame pit, which is an angle you don't see when a show launches.
Inside is equivalent to a two-story building, and the halls are, I would estimate, approximately 200 feet long, and there are rooms off each side.
The blockhouse has one way in and one way out, the same set of very heavy steel doors.
The blockhouse and everything within four miles is evacuated just before launch, and so those astronauts are sitting there on the pad completely by themselves.
Now, to touch base width, to answer your question, the local remote switch that I've mentioned refers to a computer command channel, if you will, to the switching system, which instructs it what connections to make for the measurements that they want to do.
There's something in the order of 60 sensors and pickups coming into the switch, which are routed to upwards of 40 different pieces of equipment.
The switch is commanded from the launch command complex, four miles away by underground cables.
And the local remote refers to either control on the front panel of the piece of equipment.
You advised actually against the installation of this switch, period, right?
unidentified
Yes, I did.
When they explained to me in the initial design review, which was about one year earlier before the switch was actually designed and built, they explained to me how they're going to use it, I seriously questioned the wisdom of putting in something that could disable it.
Right.
And they said, no, no, no, we want that.
Well, okay, you're the customer.
You get what you want, but I just want you to know I don't think it's a terribly good idea.
It is sensing of strains, of temperatures, of pressures, of twisting, of bending, of flexure, of loads, the mass of the shuttle, when the clamps fly back, all that kind of data.
Tremendous number of icicles, huge things hanging all over everything.
There was a pad ice team that went out and used infrared imaging and sensors to look at certain delicate parts of the shuttle and try to make a determination as to whether the ice was too bad to launch.
They had never, ever tried to launch under these conditions.
It was completely out of spec in terms of normal launches for the shuttle.
The strains, but we're talking not the strains on the pad now that were the challenger problem, but the strains on the solid rocket boosters that are not part of this system, all right?
The spacecraft, the boosters, the liquid fuel tank, the orbiter itself are a separate telemetry system that comes by radio down to the ground after launch.
All right, you want to do it or do you want me to do it?
unidentified
Well, I think it's, let me touch base on an item or two.
The why would they do this?
So, what I was told, the day it happened, corrections, the day after it happened, I was called by the customer who is a prime contractor to NASA at the time.
We're at the top of the hour, and we've got a break here for a moment.
I just want to ask you very quickly, why have you decided to come forward with all of this now?
Is it something that has been weighing on you personally?
unidentified
Yes, it's something I've carried around, and in view of some of the recent events, in view of some of the live shuttle downlinks, in view of the which Richard knows well about.
Tomorrow night, Dr. Professor Meichio Kaku is going to be my guest.
And he is actually, in my opinion, stepping into the very large shoes of the late Dr. Sagan in terms of one who can explain to the public in a language it can fully understand the wonders of our universe.
Tomorrow night, Professor Michio Kaku.com.
Or go get your snappy today at computer stores everywhere.
I want to urge those of you in Southern California in the affected areas from San Diego at the border up through Malibu and north to be very, very careful.
You're probably getting in the order of about an inch of rain an hour now.
The weather channel is showing hillsides sliding onto highways.
We'll probably see houses come off of hillsides.
If you're in a dangerous area, get to high ground, please.
We are also experiencing continuing relentless rain in the high desert where we really can't take it.
Florida is also experiencing, once again, the terror of possible tornadoes and violent weather as El Niño continues to rage.
We're talking with Ted Tweetmeyer and Richard C. Hoagland.
Ted, I want to ask you a question, and that question is, why do you fear the possibility of repercussions for telling the story you're telling now?
unidentified
Well, both Richard and I realized that some people don't, and Richard, you can correct me if you like.
There are certain people that really don't want certain things to come out.
Well, this had to be a matter of hours before because they would have gone through a great number of pre-flight checks previous to that to make sure everything was up and running and set in the correct mode.
Let me kind of pick it up here because people need to understand that in addition to passive systems, you know, the temperature and the pressures and the strains on just the structure, that big steel gantry that we see all around the shuttle just before launch,
one of the parts of this system that it's measuring is the timing of the explosive bolt firing that releases the shuttle from the pad.
In other words, it ignites and begins to apply a lot of pressure to want to get up in the air, and they hold it to a certain point and then release it, right?
You switch the camera and you see those two huge solids on each side, which have one and a half million pounds of thrust per each side.
That's three million pounds of thrust streaming upward to lift this sucker into the air.
In microseconds after that ignition, when the sensors say that the thrust is steady down, they must fire those bolts or else that whole damn pad goes up in the air.
I mean, this is an enormous amount of force being held down by very small, relatively speaking, bolts.
And if they are misfired, if the bolts disconnect in the wrong sequence at the wrong time, you get enormous sideways strains.
And remember, those solid fuel boosters on each side are made in segments.
In other words, if this doesn't go off exactly within microseconds of the timing, the side weight forces with all that enormous thrust trying to get this thing in the air and it being held down, you could do irreparable damage to the integrity of the solid boosters, and then 72 seconds later, you get catastrophe.
Now, why would one want to cut off the sensor system to the pad at that critical release point?
Suppose someone wanted those hold-down explosive bolts to fire improperly, that the commands were literally encoded in the computer, and they wanted to cover up a deliberate sabotage in the most elegant way that would be literally untraceable provided there was no data from the pad.
And so that would have reflected immediately on you.
So I see why you were concerned, yes.
unidentified
Yeah, that was truly my major focus.
And, you know, at the time, my view of the space program was not as enlightened as it's become over the last 12 years, especially in the last few years, from what I have seen myself.
I'm sure you probably talked about on your show at one point, how after one or two incidences of payload bay cameras picking up some very unusual high atmospheric and suborbital anomalies, STS-848 and STS-80 come to light.
The shuttle is probably monitoring some weapon systems that are either in space or on the ground and returning video to the ground for that purpose.
And for that reason, they might wish to scramble the signal from the shuttle so that they can do classified stuff from time to time.
Would that be reasonable?
unidentified
I think it was a combination of two things.
I think what you're saying is reasonable and correct.
And I also think there might have been an incident that wasn't a drill or a test where they really had to do something about a vehicle in the atmosphere or suborbital that needed to be, how shall we say, removed.
We have a responsible individual who was present in the launch complex system, who is in charge of a critical component, is reporting now that that pad telemetry was somehow mysteriously interrupted for several hours prior to launch through launch.
And the question I have is, when the flight director does his call around, the loop, checking all the various subsystems from downrange to fueling to astronaut pressurization to cockpit integrity, all those things you hear on these air-to-ground loops on the NASA Select Channel.
Well, one at a time, and now that he's come forward, maybe others will.
I want to ask both of you a question.
Can either one of you supply me with a reason why an individual on his own or more ominously would be instructed to go and shut off the remote data capability hours before launch?
Moreover, can either one of you answer why, once it was shut off and wasn't being received, why it would not have aborted the launch automatically?
Either one of you have answers to those questions?
unidentified
Ed?
Well, I have a comment to make on that.
I think it's quite possible that launch was doomed not to work.
It's interesting, it was hauling a Tidris satellite, which is one of their own satellites, to be placed in orbit, which is only used for shuttle support.
But again, you're really not answering the question I asked, Ted, and that was, can either one of you think of any logical, explainable reason why somebody would have been sent in there to turn it off or somebody would have turned it off and it wouldn't have stopped the launch?
I mean, other than reaching out for a conspiracy of some sort, is there any practical reason that would have been done?
unidentified
I cannot think of a practical reason, especially in view of the fact that access to the facility is controlled.
And it's almost like a facility in a facility, you know, on the overall Kennedy space complex.
There is no conceivable protocol that should have allowed that mission to go forward if the data, as Ted represents, is as advertised.
And that, of course, takes us where, as more and more people are telling me, we don't want to go.
You know, I've decided I'm going to set up a travel agency called the I Don't Want to Go There Travel Agency because more people, as this investigation, as the enterprise mission investigation gets closer to who is doing it to us and why, they tell me, I don't want to go there.
And unfortunately, we're going to have to go there because unless we get to the bottom of this and find out who is deliberately sabotaging a range of missions from turning off cameras before critical data comes in to potentially deliberately killing seven brave Americans, we are not going to have not only the space program we deserve, but the government we deserve.
I, you know, I'm just a layman, but I can't imagine in my wildest dreams why they would turn off critical data, why the absence of that critical data under any circumstances would not have aborted the launch.
I'm not prepared to call it murder.
I'm prepared to say we need to know what happened that day.
We need an explanation.
I'm not sure who we go to to demand it.
I'm a little lost here, but I know that we just heard a very, very important story from Mr. Tweedmeyer.
This is an individual, an engineer of many years' expertise, standing behind a very serious charge.
And we need to get to the bottom because to me, of course, Art, this merely reinforces a developing, awful picture of an agency which is being manipulated and used for purposes that, frankly, no one can fathom.
And every time we put a new piece of data on the board and say, this is where it's going, more people keep saying to me, I don't want to go there.
And I'm getting tired of it.
For 15 years, I've been trying to answer a simple question.
Why, with the most extraordinary possibility in human history, the discovery of alien artifacts or our own ancient artifacts right next door on another planet, has the space agency done everything to confuse, obfuscate, delay, lie, cheat, and simply, you know, use hypocrisy in dealing with the American people as opposed to trying to find out what's there.
And as I have pursued this question and more people have come on board and we've now gotten people within the agency who unfortunately are not as brave as Ted is and have had to go to us quietly on background and not use their names, I have developed,
unfortunately, really unassailable data indicating, I'm going to use the C word, a conspiracy of monumental proportions to the point where we're now on the verge of confirmation of who is behind this conspiracy and why.
What I've done is I have on my studio cam on the website now just two cycling photographs, one of me and the other of my outside cam.
Unfortunately, it does not pick up the drenching rain, and you can just barely see the drenched desert ground behind my satellite dish with the amount of light I can cast on it at this hour.
But it really, folks, cats and dogs coming down here.
And again, for those of you in the Southern California area from San Diego through Malibu and North, please be aware there are warnings out for flooding, mudslides, and all that goes on as these El Niño storms continue to pound us.
This is a particularly bad one.
In a moment, we'll get back to Richard C. Hopeland, and we are just about to go into a period of time when we are going to, from you, take questions for him.
As a matter of fact, we're going to do that right away.
As soon as I tell you about Beijing, storms are coming.
No, wrong.
Storms are here all across the country.
And I want to appeal to everybody out there.
Listen to me closely for a minute.
Will you please?
There are two things that you will find you immediately want when the power goes out.
God knows I've been having enough of that trouble lately.
We've made it through the night so far.
Thank you very much, Electric Cooperative here in Peram.
But at any moment, we could lose power.
And when we do, the first thing we run for is the Baijin Radio.
This is a seven-pound portable radio that covers AM, FM, and shortwave.
It plays at full room volume.
It doesn't use batteries.
It doesn't need to be plugged into the wall.
It has a crank on the side and a unique patented device within called the Bayless Clockwork Generator.
Flavor A of the Bajin radio, the basic radio, is $119.95.
You turn the crank on the side of this radio for 30 seconds.
30 seconds, folks.
And the radio plays at full room volume with no external power source for 30 minutes.
It should be in every home in America as these storms and our weather worsens.
Every home.
Flavor B is even better.
It's the same Beijing radio, but with a modification in the back.
It's got a little plug in the back, and they send you a mag light with it.
You plug in this little mag light with a light-emitting diode device, and it will light an entire Room.
You can read by it.
Enough light to read by it.
It's an LED light-emitting diode.
Now, here's the deal: you plug it into the back of the radio, crank the radio as you normally would.
Now, the radio plays for 30 minutes, and the light lights for 30 minutes.
The flavor B Beijin is $149.95.
Beijin with a light, $149.95.
Every single American home should have at least one of these two, preferably the Beijing, I think, with a light.
Call Bob Crane in the morning at 1-800-522-8863.
That's 1-800-522-8863.
The C. Crane Company and the Beijing Radio, you've waited long enough, or maybe by now you've waited too long.
Six, I've got the TA 2000 on duty protecting my home with no monthly monitoring fees, and you can do the same.
Simply call 1-888-541-1306.
All right.
Back now to Richard C. Hoagland.
We're about to go to the phones.
I usually have to drag Richard kick in and scream into the phones, and so I will do that here in a moment.
Richard, you've got a death threat.
That's very serious.
Somebody wrote a kind of an interesting article on the internet about me.
And they said in this, is Art Bell part of a Black Ops project?
I don't know if you've had an opportunity to read that article.
Yeah, they said it to you.
All right.
Well, in that, they said basically, why is it that the guests that Art Bell has never, basically come to any harm, and or if they do, Art Bell never does?
Well, the fact is that some of my guests have come to harm.
David Oates had his house burned down, and now you have received a fairly serious death threat.
Several months ago, several months ago, an individual approached us volunteering to work in research and other aspects of enterprise.
And we were particularly struck by this person's credentials because they were ex-NSA, ex-Navy, Naval Intelligence, and most interestingly, cryptography, codes.
And there's a lot of traffic and a lot of information that now crosses our desk from sources out there, people like Ted, who on background provide us information that requires that level of expertise.
And there are several ex-NSA people who have come to us.
We had one stand with us on the stage in Phoenix last July, Vance Davis, who has been very helpful and continues to be very helpful.
There's some others that don't want to be public, and I obviously am not going to make them public tonight.
This individual came to us, and one of the first things I did was to provide this individual with a tape that clearly seemed to have a code in it in any casual inspections, with a piece of video.
I provided the same piece of video to David, to David Oates, to have him reverse it.
And lo and behold, what I suspected was in this tape, in these statements by a variety of individuals regarding a certain highly public matter, turned out to be there, in reverse, very clearly, including the potential perpetrator of the act that I was seeking to confirm.
We're talking a murder art, okay?
Of a very visible public figure relatively recently.
And what apparently happened is it's like a spider web.
You know, you are never X in any of these intelligence communities.
You're always on some kind of status.
So inadvertently, by seeking additional help from former colleagues, this person got themselves in terrible trouble.
And the spider web was rung, and I have videotape of surveillance of this person's apartment.
And I actually physically went there one night myself before I realized what was going on and saw two gentlemen sitting in a truck monitoring this person's apartment.
Well, to make a long story somewhat shorter, which is not usual for us on the bell shelf.
I know.
It got down to where I really was very fearful that this person was in danger because they suddenly disappeared.
And as part of the disappearance, a message was placed on my voicemail that if I ever attempted to even call or contact this person, there would be dire consequences.
That that was not a threat.
It was a promise.
I would live to regret it.
A simple phone call, I would live to regret.
Now, this is pretty interesting because it means we were close to something very sensitive.
The response was so incredibly disproportionate to the facts that I take this very seriously.
And as you know, I called you up and I discussed going on the show to discuss this at some level of detail with specific names.
Well, I am happy to report tonight that this individual has suddenly re-emerged.
The system has spit this individual out.
And I am very confident, given the visibility we've now brought to the issue, that this person and ourselves are in perfectly fine condition.
Ted has done the brightest thing possible by going public on your show, by making his case before 20 million concerned Americans.
Ted may not get another contract, but he will live to get other contracts from other vendors and other government sources because they dare not create bodies.
This is the threat that can never be achieved once publicity reaches a certain level.
Now, there is something else, however, which is going on, which I'm very concerned with, because, you know, the death threats don't bother me.
What bothers me is this incredible concerted attack now on the very foundations of the enterprise headquarters here in New Mexico.
At a legal level, people who formerly were incredibly supportive have been manipulated into becoming vitriolic enemies and at the moment are putting us under extraordinary attack, seeking to evict us from the very residence and enterprise headquarters that we moved to some six, seven months ago.
And if this does not cease, I will name names, as I said before, because this person also was involved in the confiscation of those videotapes from Phoenix.
And two days after we discussed it on your show, those tapes came back.
We are dealing with people who are not brave.
They are cowards.
They attack and threaten women, children, the truth, the integrity of the American process.
But when you shine the light of day or shine the light of concerned Americans on them, they run like cockroaches as they are.
And so I am giving these people fair notice.
If this attack on enterprise and our investigation does not cease, the next time on this show, Art, I am going to name names, and I will be exquisitely specific.
And I guarantee you, the soap opera that has led up to this will be a riveting five hours.
Yeah, so we're up, you know, on the higher ground.
But, of course, you know, we still have the sewer problems and all the rest of it.
Sure.
And the ground out here for years, you know, in various parts of the county, because of a lot of the shoddy building that was done in the 80s, has been shifting all over the place.
The images I'm seeing on the weather channel, which they're showing us from Southern California, you know, with lights and cameras, it's just horrific.
unidentified
No, I'm not on my website tonight because my office is next door, but I check your website.
And I just want to say before I ask Richard my question, I've been listening to you now about six months.
My mom lives in San Francisco.
She's in her 70s.
And she kind of put me onto your show.
And she said, you've got to listen to this.
But, you know, being that I work during the day, I don't usually stay up at night, but I'm a regular listener now.
My question to Richard is, you know, I'm not real sophisticated on the UFO and all the rest of the alien whatever, whatever's out there outside of this planet.
But I'm 55 now, and I have never seen a time, you know, when the government, the military, NASA, any of it, has ever been truthful with the people.
Remember Ben Franklin after the Constitutional Convention 250-some years ago when someone asked him, I believe it was a woman, and she said, Mr. Franklin, what kind of a government do we have?
And he said, madam, a republic if you can keep it.
The reason we're in this terrible predicament on all fronts, from Iraq to presidential problems to the congressional problems we all know about, to huge black budgets without accountability, to runaway military-industrial complex, which General Eisenhower, President Eisenhower warned us against 30 years ago, is because we have let the experts and the pundits and the elitists literally take us over.
If we don't manage our own affairs, if we don't take the responsibility of good citizenship, if we don't pay attention, this has happened so many times in the recent history of the human species, the last 6,000 years, that it's part of every course in history.
You know, those who do not learn from history will live to regret it.
And believe me, every day, the hundreds of factors that come in and the telephone calls give me the confidence to know that if we just continue, we are going to prevail.
I sent thoughts of healing to him, as you requested.
Thank you.
This is my comment.
Actually, comment really crack.
As far as the truth, the seeking of truth, I tend to agree with Richard in that even the extremely religious individuals, in all of their belief systems, there are questions and unanswered little blank points.
And I think that they would acclimate themselves to the truth just as easily as we would.
It would just expand their knowledge, their vastness of their knowledge in their direction of belief.
A few weeks ago, there was a letter sent from a deputy administrator of NASA, very high up in NASA headquarters, canceling, in essence, all research and development monies and projects for any manned spaceflight beyond low Earth orbit, beyond the shuttle.
That would be to the moon, to Mars, to the outer solar system, anything that would be really interesting that would capitalize on what we are doing at the moon tonight, which is the Lunar Prospector mission, the discovery of water ice, you know, moon bases, stuff like that.
All fini canceled.
And there was speculation, and I must emphasize it is speculation, based mostly in the UFO stuff, which is going back and forth across the country, including across our show, that aliens have imprisoned us, they've quarantined us, they've told us, get out of space and don't come back.
Right, which makes one ask the question, do we have high-level NASA officials running willy-nilly through the corridors of NASA writing memos that nobody means?
In other words, this is a mystery art that we don't have an answer for tonight.
Now, I would note that while Dan Golden said, no, it's not so, in that same communique, he did not detail any plans for any manned missions to go anywhere.
Now, we were talking relatively low-level monies, and there's an arcana of the NASA budgeting, which is frankly more confusing than your average tax return.
So I don't know where we stand tonight.
But your question, ma'am, is this.
You know, who's imposing these strictures if they're real?
And Ted alluded to the same thing in the last segment.
I firmly believe that our enemies are within, not without.
That if someone doesn't want us to go deeper into space, it's not because somebody out there is putting a blanket around us or a picket fence or a ring of barbed wire.
It's because our internal enemies don't want us to discover and confirm what is out there waiting for us to conceptualize and to assimilate that will radically change everything we think we know and maybe disenfranchise the elitist who are controlling the knowledge flow at the present time.
This, Richard, is where Arthur C. Clarke took issue with you.
Arthur C. Clarke said, although I can hardly credit it, I heard that he, Richard Hoagland, accused NASA of sabotaging Mars Observer to prevent it revealing that there was a civilization on the planet.
It seems to me much more likely that NASA would fake such evidence rather than destroy it.
Well, Arthur, again, has been the subject to bad rumors.
And unfortunately, because he's getting on in years, he hasn't taken the time to simply look at monuments to what I actually did say on the record regarding Mars Observer.
I have never, I'll repeat, I have never claimed that NASA deliberately destroyed that spacecraft.
That's one of those little vicious rumors that our enemies use over and over and over again.
What I said, and I backed it up with documentation, is that four engineers from JPL, shortly after the spacecraft disappeared in 93, came to me through various means and claimed that NASA had taken its stealth, that they had sequestered the data and the existence of the mission from even most of the rest of NASA, but that they had not destroyed the spacecraft.
And to repeat briefly with regard to the Mars Global Surveyor and the imaging of Sidonia, Dr. Michael Malin, according to his own website, is threatening to have the camera turned off as surveyor passes over Sidonia.
We're trying to prevent that.
To prevent that, we are faxing Dan Golden, head of NASA, and two media people.
We're copying them.
So please send a fax to Dan Golden urging him not to turn this camera off.
His fax number is Area Code 202.
That's 202-358-2810-2810.
202-358-2810.
Please also copy Ted Coppel of ABC News.
His fax number is Area Code 202-222-7976.
Also, please send a copy of that same fax to John Holliman at CNN, which is Area Code 404-681-3578.
404-681-3578.
We'll get back to Richard Hoagland and your questions in a moment.
255.
All right, tomorrow night, Professor Michio Kaku will be here, and it is going to be a fascinating discussion.
You're not going to want to miss it.
Back now to Richard C. Hoagland in Albuquerque, where I presume you're still dry, huh?
The question, and the very tough question, one I think that we've tackled before, Richard, is how long these very brave seven were alive after the actual explosion and the subsequent plunge to the sea.
I watched in horror as that cockpit inside the sleek aeroframe came apart and it came down.
You could see the vapor trail.
We know now from the positions of switches and the turning of oxygen handles or the individual flight suits that they survived the explosion and the aerodynamic forces that tore apart the orbiter.
We do not know whether they survived the impact, which was several long minutes down to the ocean.
If that crew compartment had had a parachute or something, they probably could have walked away.
If they had a way of egressing rapidly, that's where the shuttle modifications and the procedures that John Glenn is now going through at the Cape in terms of egress under certain abort conditions become so relevant.
But again, this is all clouded in a layer upon layer of NASA deception and the accusation of outright lies on the part of even the reporting of that investigation, you know, on Challenger so many years ago.
Where does it stop, Art?
The point is it only stops when the American people call a halt to it.
Richard, you mentioned that if they keep harassing you, you will specifically expose what's going on.
What generically can you say this evening about the who and the why?
And the question I have for Art is, whatever that harassment and trouble that you had last year was, have you considered if buried layers and layers underneath that are actually it isn't what it seemed to be?
What I would like, of course, is Art's permission to do a show on this because we can be much more than generic.
What I am deliberately not doing is naming people who are being manipulated as opposed to the manipulators tonight.
What I'm trying to do is to allow them the realization that they are about to step into deep quicksand, never to return if they continue in their actions at the behest of those behind the scenes who are pulling the strings.
Now, I have no compunction against naming the string pullers.
I do have some sympathy for those who start out in one mode, being supportive, being courageous, wanting to do the right thing, and fall prey to vicious lies and deliberate manipulation to the point where they become avowed enemies through no basic fault other than that they have not done their homework.
Let me give you an example in point.
You know, I have an extraordinary friend in Arthur Clark, and I have had for many years.
In the last couple of weeks, Arthur got, you know, Bart Bell got a communication from a third party representing certain things said to Arthur without an opportunity for me to respond.
One of those he just read a few minutes ago on the air.
The representation that I have ever, in any time, in any public record, said that NASA killed or blew up their own Mars observer.
I have never said that.
In my book, I specifically lay out the scenario that engineers at JPL provided me and which documents that we were able to secure tend to corroborate, as well as circumstantial evidence of actions not taken by the agency to recover the spacecraft with flimsy excuses like, oh, it would be too expensive, which in fact should have been rigorously pursued.
In an effort to get out the truth, writers try to put it on paper and to document with specific sources.
If other people don't read what we write, we cannot be held responsible.
But the name of the game of manipulation and lies and deception is you get people not to follow documentation, you get them to follow rumors and half-truths and outright deception.
So on behalf of people who would like to see what I have said, to read what I have written, we have an 800 number.
And at that 800 number, you can see all our videos, you can get copies of the Monuments of Mars now in its fourth edition, and you can get a copy in the next few weeks of the Phoenix Pathfinder connection tape that we're currently working on, the tapes which were stolen and returned only after I went on our show and threatened to expose the manipulators.
And that 800 number for some very important source material and documentation of what we are saying, not what we're not saying, is 1-888-338-8581.
That's 1-888.
That's an 800 number, toll-free.
338-8581.
And literally tonight, there are operators standing by.
Well, I was curator of astronomy and space science at the Museum of Science at Springfield for many years.
That's where I got involved with NASA in producing some pioneering programs around Mars.
We did the first trans-continental live broadcast on the Mars flyby of Mariner 4 back in 1965.
I became assistant director of the Django Science Center.
I then got a call one day from Walter Cronkite, which of course I thought in terms of Bill Cosby, come on, who is this?
Because I couldn't imagine that Cronkite staff would call me, who at that time was, I think, about 20, 21 years of age, but it was true.
I became Walter's science advisor.
I learned an incredible amount of important information on how media can either convey the truth or be used to deliberately misconstrue the truth, which has stood me, I think, in good stead in the ensuing years.
I then went to the Hayden Planetarium in New York City.
I became a NASA consultant to the Goddard Space Flight Center.
I'm just hitting the high spots here.
I have led independent science expeditions.
When Eric Burgess suggested to Dr. Sagan the plaque on Pioneer, which became our first message into the galaxy, to the stars, never to return.
I won an Angstrom Medal in 1993 for the work on Sidonia and hyperdimensional physics.
And I am pursuing an exploration into how far the truth extends in terms of science.
But parallel, Art, I am pursuing an exploration into how far people will go before enough is enough, and they simply demand that their government be responsive to the wishes of its citizens.
And the last time I had Dr. Kaku on, Professor Kaku, he said, you know, we have now spread spectrum technology.
And if you wanted to get a signal from A to B across vast distances and past planets and noise-making stars and all the rest of it, you would send a spread spectrum signal of some kind.
The most efficient use of the pipe is to spread the information across the width of the band so that it looks to the uninitiated who doesn't have the code to decode it with its random white noise.
So, I mean, from the get-go, the whole SETI concept has very serious fallacies at its core.
And I agree with Dr. Kaku that, in fact, it probably is not technically the most elegant way of seeing if we're alone.
And politically, I can now guarantee you that given NASA's own activities and own behavior on the Sidonia question, remember, David Oates on your program revealed that the NASA people are saying in reverse, we're involved with Sidonia while declaiming up and down that they could care less.
That particular reversal I found to be the most incredible reversal that I think I've ever heard of any reversal on any subject out of anybody's mouth.
The odds of the word Sidonia ever coming up, ever, ever, ever coming up in reverse have got to be there must be as many zeros behind it as there are that that face is something that's very good comparison.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Well, there was a TIGRIS satellite which had a solid-fueled interim upper stage, the so-called IUS, that would boost it into its geosynchronous orbit.
There was not a liquid-fuel.
There was a plan later to send the Galileo spacecraft in the shuttle in a similar configuration on a liquid-fueled Centaur rocket, and that was immediately scrapped.
Engineers said, good God, if this could happen, what could happen if something happened in the payload bay?
And so that was the reason for the inordinate delay in getting the Galileo ultimately to Jupiter.
I want to make another point, though.
What people don't remember is after the Challenger disaster, we had two other equally serious disasters.
There was a Delta unmanned rocket that left the Cape and blew up.
And there was a C, Titan III or Titan IV, I forget which, launched from Vandenberg, which also blew up in a spectacular cloud of debris within a few days or weeks maybe.
And at that point, for years, literally a couple of years, in the words of Scotty, not Scotty Roland, but the real Scotty, we couldn't beam up as much as a fly.
In other words, our entire launch capacity, the ability of this nation to get anything into space for a couple of years was totally shut down.
And if there was sabotage and if this was a conspiracy, I would focus my attention on that effect and what the other guys on the other side of the world were doing while we were stuck on the ground.
And I want to talk to you for a second about accuracy.
I don't know about you, but I'm an absolute nut for accuracy, particularly when it comes to time.
It really means a lot to me.
I've got a clock that I live by.
I'm on a network.
If I don't come and go at the right times, I disturb thousands of people, and I have people cursing at me, and all kinds of things happen.
It's terrible.
So I've got to be on time in and out of my brakes.
And what I do it with is the Zeit clock.
I've got a Zeit clock, and you can have one now, too.
It's mounted right above me.
It is a remarkable, remarkable clock that actually receives a radio signal from the National Bureau of Standards in Boulder, Colorado, about six times an hour and sets itself.
So your clock has the accuracy of the National Bureau of Standards atomic clock in Boulder.
It is actually a clock that is so accurate that previously only laboratories, labs, have been able to have it.
Now you can have it.
And boy, at what a price too.
They just increased by about five times the amount of power coming from Boulder, Colorado, the radio signal, so that these clocks never ever mess up, even in the worst kind of storm like the one we've got going on right now.
This clock is deadly accurate, actually, to within one second in a million years.
It is a 12-inch wall clock with two flavors.
The Zeit radio-controlled wall clock, European railroad style, with temperature and humidity dials as well, is $99.95.
That's the expensive one.
An even better buy is the Zeit radio-controlled clock, traditional style with numerals, just like a school clock.
You remember the one in school, right?
$79.95.
It runs on one A battery.
It's just absolutely a remarkable clock, and without it, I don't know what I'd do.
You should have one, too.
And by the way, when the time change comes, you know, daylight savings time, you just go to bed and forget it.
This clock automatically, the hands run around and it resets itself during the night.
Yeah, Richard, you know, there's a lot of people out there who want to know why you left New York City, urban boy that you were, and moved to a mountain in New Mexico.
I have moved so many times in my reasonably young life so far.
My dad was in the movie business, and we moved from the East Coast to the West Coast, Indiana, back to the East Coast.
We moved north and south.
I mean, moving to me is almost like second nature.
It depends on the appropriateness of the environment.
And now with the internet, with the ability to do your show from anywhere, I mean, why would I possibly want to be in the urban mess of New York when I can walk out on my veranda and look 100 miles away and see mesas and blue sky and watch roadrunners from my kitchen window and sit typing on the new book, you know, while cats frolic, you know, out in front of the glass?
I mean, this is a lifestyle improvement par excellence.
And frankly, it's also the Enterprise Mission Headquarters, and somebody's trying to take it away from me, and it ain't going to work.
Well, I concluded the same thing years ago, and at that time, there was just barely enough technology to allow somebody like me to do what I do from where I do it.
But it's absolutely true, and now the cycle is absolutely complete with the internet connections fast, satellite technology available.
I've got it all here.
I've got as much as any major city newsroom has, and maybe more.
And I'm just wondering, I fired off a couple of facts down to Mr. Golden, but I think from Mark's surprise attack the last time, they probably have a strategy because I've got a new Dell and 233 Meg, and I'm getting through, and it's downloading, but it's not accepting it.
We are in the process of pillorying a president for lying.
All right?
Not for doing something, but for lying.
If what's good for the president means you can't ever tell a lie, then Mr. Golden may be caught in the biggest lie of all, which is far more significant than what Mr. Clinton is going through, and Mr. Golden deserves to be held to the same standard.
I had two quick questions for Mr. Hoagland, and then a couple of comments, if I could.
One was, if memory serves me right, wasn't Morton Ziko basically and the other contractors too kind of absolved from all blame after that was I think that was like the outcome that Congress had come to when I because I thought it was kind of interesting like when they were afraid they were going to be sued didn't something come out of that that government contractors involved with this couldn't be sued I'm not I'm not aware of the specific legalistics I know that Siacol was part of the investigation and
The fact that the pad monitoring system, which includes those explosive bolt firings at liftoff, was deliberately disabled, raises profound and serious questions about everything we've been told about Challenger.
unidentified
Everything.
And the other quick comment I wanted to make is I don't, I'm not able to turn in until like one in the morning California time.
And I had, you had mentioned a friend of yours having a stroke or something.
Well, I appreciate it, and of course there are questions about projects like the HAARP Project in Alaska and their effect on biological entities like us.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
My other friend Arthur, Arthur Clark, who we've talked about, I would say Arthur Clark, who we've talked about earlier tonight, once told me many years ago, he says, Dick, any man who commutes more than 30 seconds from office to home is a fool.
And this is from the inventor of the communications satellite.
Now that we have the net, anybody who wants to live in New York City is, in my estimation, a fool.
So, Dan Golden, I have his area code 202-358-2810.
correct all right um abc's is working so we'll skip that john holliman is area at cnn is area code 404-681-3578 those are the same numbers that are on our website at enterprise mission.com and so if people aren't sure they can go to my website jump over to yours and uh read the numbers there and remember it all you know my old my old uh you know alma mater is no single point failure so
See, well, you know, you know that Graham Hancock and Robert Bavall and I are friends and colleagues and that Graham was on Tom Snyder a year or so ago and said some very nice and eloquent things about our research and how it correlates with his research.
If we are looking at Mars in terms of a prior human civilization, if we're not looking at aliens, if we're looking at our stuff, then it frankly makes even more sense that this group, which I'm going in on naming, would be the last ones to want us to know that because their claim is they're the only ones who should have access to this kind of knowledge and information in terms of lineal descendancy and heritage and may I use the word racial
Pat Robertson, he heard this material, and I was wondering, is he the one that's pretty much said this is demon stuff from, you know, stuff for the devil?
Well, his precise quotes several years later, subsequent to the airing of the segment on our Sidonia research, which was many years ago, this is back in, I think, 88 is when they came down and did the piece and then put it on the CBN network, was in reference to UFOs.
And, you know, I don't do Windows and I don't do UFOs, but of course we've got something flying around in the shuttle video, so I guess that's not a hard and fast rule.
My point was, regardless of the particular position of one evangelist, real Christians really want truth.
You can't be a Christian and not want the truth.
It's impossible.
Therefore, there is no intrinsic conflict if you really are seeking the truth.
unidentified
And I had another question about the STS-80 video footage.
Well, we've had some interesting impediments in terms of the analysis.
One of my colleagues, a former aerospace engineer, went to great lengths to try to get data out of NASA and got absolutely stonewalled in all directions.
And only with the help of Holloman did we finally get this data sprung loose, John Holloman.
That's why John's facts number is being listed tonight.
We are in the process of editing not only the Phoenix video, which will have some remarkable correlations and updates to the Phoenix conference, and again, additional reasons why a group would not want us to know the truth, but we're also, in the same time frame, going to do STS-80 and finally get it out there so you can see what NASA is keeping you from realizing in the way of remarkable propulsion systems photographed by the shuttle itself.
Madam, except this memo was issued before the budget itself was actually published.
It was an intention by NASA not to pursue, and then Golden reversed it and put it back in NASA's proposal for the budget before it even reached the Hill.