Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Feb. 11, 1998 - Art Bell

02:45:30

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Roswell Alien Technology - Jack Schulman

Participants

Main voices

48:29

jack schulman

01:12:03

linda moulton howe

21:43

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Summerlin Time, the night featuring coast to coast a.m. from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, happy to all, good evening, or good morning wherever you may be across all these many, many time zones.
		There are a lot of them.
		From the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains, where it's early evening, all the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, good morning in St. Thomas, South, into South America, north, all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
		This is post-Choast a.m.
		What a night I have planned for you tonight.
		First hour, open lines, lots to talk about.
		Second hour, Jack Schulman from the American Computer Corporation, ACC, which claims to be back-engineering actual alien technology, which has resulted in the development of the trans capacitor, a device that will improve disk storage and do all kinds of things.
		And he claims, Judge Hooman claims, that this all has been back engineered, back engineered, rather, from Roswell crash wreckage.
		And it is, oh, it's just an incredible, incredible story.
		It's a major U.S. computer company claiming they've got alien technology now, back-engineering it now.
		So we'll talk about that.
		Now, in the Monica Lewinsky case, Monica Lewinsky is not going to testify later today, depending on your time zone or tomorrow.
		Her lawyer has made moves that will keep her away from the grand jury, but not her mother.
		Her mother went before the grand jury again Wednesday, coming out ashen-colored, so shaken by the grilling that a nurse was summoned to the grand jury room to attend to her.
		Her lawyer, Billy Martin, said no mother should be forced to testify against her own child.
		He said Ms. Lewis must return because she was unable to finish her testimony.
		This is getting to the ridiculous stage.
		And I have some really, really, really interesting news for you about this.
		I told you last night that one of my affiliates had some major national news they were going to break today, and they sure did.
		My Las Vegas affiliate, Hot Talk1051, is offering Monica Lewinsky a cool $5 million for an exclusive interview.
		A subheadline station makes formal offer for details surrounding intern.
		Here it is.
		The actual release.
		A Las Vegas radio station has made a formal, legitimate offer to Monica Lewinsky of $5 million for an exclusive, truthful interview regarding her relationship with President Bill Clinton.
		Hot Talk 1051FM, KVBC FM actually, sent a letter to Lewinsky and her lawyer, William Ginsburg, outlining the offer and its conditions on Wednesday.
		The offer gives Lewinsky until March 12th to submit to the interview at the radio station in return.
		Hot Talk 105 FM will pay Lewinsky $5 million.
		The offer was officially made on the Jim and Julie show Wednesday afternoon.
		Quote, our goal is the truth, and we are willing to pay to achieve our goal, said Dane Wilt, general manager of Hot Talk 105.1.
		Continuing, this is a legitimate offer.
		We have the money and we're willing to pay it to Monica Lewinsky if she agrees to this interview.
		This is for real.
		Lewinsky, of course, the former White House intern who's been embroiled in a scandal with President Clinton and an alleged affair that may have taken place in the White House.
		Unlike other offers to Lewinsky, which have come with the stipulation of possibly posing nude, for publication, Wilt said, Hot Talk 105 FM has no interest in Lewinsky shedding her clothes.
		All were interested in uncovering said Wilt is the truth.
		Now, among the interview conditions, this must be Lewinsky's first interview other than grand jury testimony.
		The questions must be answered truthfully under penalty of perjury, and Lewinsky may not grant any additional interviews within 30 days of the Hot Talk 105.1 FM interview.
		Try that again, Hot Talk 105.1 FM interview.
		So I wonder what you think about that.
		And I've been doing some thinking about it.
		This is a big corporation.
		Our new affiliate in Las Vegas is, you know, it's a big corporation.
		They've got the $5 million.
		As a matter of fact, they have actually already issued a $5 million check.
		Now, I'm here to tell you that I think that Monica Lewinsky could probably not do better.
		Wherever you are right now, Monica, this would be the deal.
		I'm an author.
		I've written books.
		I can tell you they don't yield millions of dollars.
		So whatever books she might write wouldn't even come close to this in terms of royalties that she would receive.
		$5 million, that's a lot of damn money.
		I think that I would go for that, and I'm fairly sure that there is no gag order in the Lewinsky case that would preclude her doing this.
		So, Monica, if you're out there, there it is: $5 million.
		And I've got kind of an inside track to the radio station, and I'll tell you right now, the ownership of the station and the corporation, you would have wanted definitely to be a fly on the wall during the conversations that must have gone on for this one.
		I had to interview Dane Wildis what I ought to do.
		I can imagine, well, boss, guess what we're doing today?
		We're offering $5 million.
		You're going to need to write the, say what?
		So I think she ought to take them up on it.
		$5 million is what I call fiddle-you money, which means it's enough money to say, to heck with you, gone fishing, goodbye.
		That's it.
		And there are not even conditions here that require her to suggest that President Saborn perjury, ask anybody to lie, or anything else.
		Just the story.
		$5 million cold hard dollars.
	Go, Monica, go.
	You guys think she'll go for it?
	Should she go for it?
	You could live pretty well on $5 million for the rest of your life, huh?
	Meanwhile, prosecutors investigating the president's relationship with Monica have subpoenaed members of the Secret Service, setting up a new confrontation with the Independent Counsel over the Clinton administration's desire to restrict the testimony of close aides and the Secret Service.
	Government officials confirmed subpoenas had been issued to the Secret Service, but it remained unclear whether the Independent Counsel star was seeking testimony of agents currently or formally assigned to Clinton's protective detail.
	There is a retired agent who claims that he escorted Monica Lewinsky into the Oval office for some late-night meetings.
	Others are saying a uniformed Secret Service agent would never have been detailed to do this, but an expert on the White House takes issue with that and suggests that indeed it would have happened, could have happened, likely did happen.
	Anyway, I think that's hot stuff for Hot Talk FM 105.1.
	$5 million, not $5 million.
	Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, disappointed with Attorney General Reno's decision to request a special prosecutor to investigate his role in an Indian casino controversy.
	We're going to get mixed up here about which special prosecutor are we talking about.
	There have been so many.
	Has to do with a group of Wisconsin Indians who feel they were cheated because somebody else got in there with a little bit of juice.
	Now Iraq.
	It does now appear that we are going to go to war.
	Are we wagging the dog or are we really going to war?
	I tend to think we're wagging the dog.
	Recent movie in which a president covers up an affair in the White House with a firefly girl, what they called it, wag the dog a firefly girl, by starting a war.
	Now, the other side of this is that breaking news at the top of the hour, and this should put a big chill down your spine, indicated that the Russians supplied in 1995 biological cookings,
	doings, scrapings, biological stuff to Iraq that could have been used against us and may be used against us if we attack Iraq now.
	If I had to guess, I would say we're probably within about a week of initiating Project Desert Thunder, which is going to, I guess, use a lot of smart bombs, smart airplanes.
	I'm not sure how smart the whole idea is, though.
	How about you?
	I just don't know.
	And I'm not sure.
	I'm not really qualified at this point to sit here and say that we're wagging the dog that this is a diversionary tactic from the president's difficulties because it was coming long before.
	The evidence is they do have a bunch of stuff that we ought to blow to Kingdom Come.
	That's the one side of me, the other side.
	Plus, of course, Iraq is being defiant and not allowing the UN inspectors to go where they need to go, and that alone is enough reason to continue the war.
	Actually, we're not going back to war.
	We are continuing.
	We have always been in a state of war with Iraq, albeit not official, but a state of war.
	In Japan, a mixture of snow rain, along with strong winds, heavy fog, has postponed the weather-tormented men's downhill for the third time in five days.
	An unusual problem, too much snow.
	A growing Accumulation of geological evidence is now making it ever clear that in the past the climate has undergone drastic changes in temperature and rainfall patterns in the space of a human lifetime, in fact, in a decade or even less.
	In uncovering one of the latest pieces of evidence of abrupt climate change, American scientists led by Dr. Jeffrey Sevenhouse at the University of Rhode Island examined climate clues taken from corings of ancient ice in Greenland.
	The team determined that when the world began its final ascent out of the last ice age, that would have been more than 11,000 years ago, temperatures in Greenland initially spiked upward by about between 9 and 18 degrees Fahrenheit, at least a third and maybe more of the total recovery to today's warmth.
	In at most, brace yourself, three decades and probably less than a single decade.
	They also found that the impact of the sudden warming had been felt at least throughout the northern hemisphere.
	So what they're saying here is that our weather could change and it could do it in 10 years.
	10 years.
	And now this, the Clinton administration has quietly changed U.S. nuclear weapons policy to permit for the first time targeting Iraq with tactical atomic warheads, according to the U.S. according to U.S. officials.
	I'm picking this from, by the way, out of Newsday.
	The top secret directive signed by President Clinton in November is part of the administration's contingency plan to consider using atomic bombs on Iraq.
	Now you think about that a little bit.
	we are getting ready to use possibly use atomic weapons in Iraq for Now, in a moment, open lines.
unidentified		plenty to talk, plenty to talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is just one more thing.
		I have a sheet here full of headlines, newspaper headlines that somebody collected all recent days in which, over the last, oh, let us say, month, animals have been attacking human beings.
		The first story coming from Anchorage, Alaska, not a big surprise, hiker killed by grizzly bear.
		Hiker surprised bear and the bear, of course, killed him.
		And then from Atlantic City, New Jersey, pit bulls come from nowhere to attack children in schoolyard.
		Well, pit bulls attack.
		Another one, bear kills man in Alaska.
		A lot of that.
		Grizzly kills woman, Haynes Junction, Yukon.
		How about elephant sneaks up on Hunter and kills him?
		An experienced Zimbabwean safari hunter was gored to death by an elephant that apparently sneaked up on him.
		And then finally from France, a panic-stricken deer charged and killed a deer charged and killed a hunter who bled to death from an antler wound that severed his aorta.
		Now I just note these items for you.
		I'm not saying the day of the animals has arrived.
		That cats are going to be leaping into the faces of unsuspecting owners.
		Dogs snapping at the crotches of their dismayed owners.
		However, there is something going on out there, and I'm not sure it's good.
		Just sort of making a mental note of all this, and of course the news of the whales continues.
		Newfoundland, harp seals in Newfoundland leaving the sea in large numbers, heading off into the forests of all things.
		The people in Newfoundland say they have never in all their lives seen anything like it.
		They have never seen animals, mammals behaving in the manner that they are.
		And this, coupled with the stories that I just gave you, indicates that something is really going profoundly wrong out there.
		It's our environment.
		It's magnetic changes.
		It's a damn full moon.
		The moon is full, by the way, have you seen it?
		My mind, what a night.
		And it portends some interesting things immediately ahead.
		The balance of the hour will be in open lines.
unidentified		Monica, five million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five million dollars for a radio interview.
		Now, I'm going to have to have the manager of that radio station on there as a guest and ask him about this.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		You're listening to Arch Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Well, there's a lot going on.
		It really is a great time to be doing talk radio and to be involved in what's going on in the world.
		It really is one of the greatest times I've ever known to be alive.
		One of the best and one of the worst.
		Kind of like my life.
		On our international line, somewhere out there, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Barefoot Skinny in Belize, Central America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Belize, Central America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down there probably lying in the hammock with the little drinks with the umbrellas.
unidentified		How did you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because I know why people go to Belize.
unidentified		Well, that's true, but I live here, and I still have a hammock hanging in my living room, and I'm actually drinking a little rum and coke right now.
		monica how does the world Oh, thank you.
		The thing with Monica.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The $5 million?
unidentified		What?
		Oh, I would jump on that in a heartbeat.
		And, you know, if she was any kind of lady at all, any kind, she would give the guy who taught her whatever it was she did a cool meal.
		Easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A commission.
unidentified		Wouldn't that be fair?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a commission.
		I guess so.
		i would take five million dollars run look five million dollars as you ought to know since you have been would you what what did you do why Do you have a million bucks are you down there, retired, gone fishing?
unidentified		Well, you know, about these trust things, you can't go too public with them.
		But no, I'm an entertainer down here on a little island called Ambergris Key.
		And a lot of my friends up there in the States know me as barefoot skinny, and they're waiting for a CD release and whatnot.
		But no, I'm just doing my thing down here, man, and I've got a family and very happy to be living somewhere where there's not all this pollution and all this crime and everything else.
		It's a really nice life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for $5 million, you may soon have a new neighbor there in Central America.
unidentified		I might.
		And like I said, if she could give a cool meal to the guy who taught her how to do that.
		I'm not saying it's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
unidentified		But, you know, I think that would be fair for the guy who taught her how to get all this public attraction.
		So anyway, also, you found out about these scientists in the States.
		I don't know if you were caught up on that.
		BBC World Service tonight had mentioned that two scientists in the United States were testing on an epileptic woman and found the laughter nerve.
		And I was wondering if Bob Crane could get a hold of that.
		Maybe he could figure out some kind of device on how to give us all a way to laugh all this madness off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The laugh device.
		I love it, my friend.
		Thank you.
		That's from Belize.
		No, I really hadn't heard that.
		Scientists have actually discovered the place that causes you to laugh.
		I always thought it was the ribs, other selected locations on the human body.
		But I guess like everything else, it's in the brain, no doubt.
		All right, well, anybody wanting to get to us internationally, as that Belize caller just did, can do so by calling their friendly ATNT operator and then telling her you want to call the USA.
		Toll-free, please.
		Thank you very much.
		And the number is 800-893-0903.
		I hope that's right.
		You can barely read my writing anymore.
		That's it.
		800-893-0903.
		And we will pick up the tab from literally anywhere in the world.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, the luckiest woman in New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
unidentified		I've got to tell you what happened last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened?
unidentified		Well, I could have told you last night, but I was too nervous.
		And I'm never nervous talking to you.
		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Last night was weird after I told you about my daughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay?
unidentified		I went to the tape to see how I sounded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And everything broke.
		Everything.
		My old rotel, it's 20 years old.
		My receiver, the tape recorder, nothing.
		I couldn't get it to work till this morning.
		Bad vibes.
		I wire everything in the house so I know how it works.
		And nothing.
		Now you're cooking.
		Now everything's on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I'm the same way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got my entire house wired, and I'm the only one who knows where all the wires are.
unidentified		I program everything, the clocks, the whole place, you know.
		And I have two rabbits.
		Two older, this six-year-old rabbit, two rabbits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have rabbits?
unidentified		Two rabbits.
		They're trained to go in a litter box, and they follow me around like two dogs.
		Do they, really?
		You can't even eat anything without them jumping on your lap, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		Yeah, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are that domestic?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of rabbits are these?
unidentified		One is a rex, and one is a Dutch shorthair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A T-Rex?
unidentified		Yeah, sure.
		With the teeth, too.
		One is like a police car.
		It's black and white.
		And the other one is just like a white rabbit.
		We call her the alien because she's got the eyes.
		She's pure white.
		When you put her ears back, she has makeup on her eyes.
		It's black.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you take a regular rabbit that would appear in your yard?
		We've got them out here, big jack rabbits in the desert.
		And can you domesticate those?
unidentified		I never tried, but if you took anything as a baby, it's really easy to do that.
		But you couldn't domesticate it after it's grown up.
		If you took it as a baby, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it is, all I do is throw rocks at them anyway.
unidentified		I'm telling you.
		Now, I don't understand about Monica.
		Why hasn't Monica just come out And said, Look, I was wired by a girlfriend.
		I told her some things, and anybody would tell anybody's girlfriend.
		I told the truth on the deposition.
		It doesn't really matter, people, what I said to this girlfriend, too damn bad, and that's it.
		Why can't she just get off on this doing this?
		I'm confused about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am also confused about it, and here's what I say, that she should take this $5 million and run.
		I really mean it.
		$5 million.
		There is nowhere that Monica is going to come up with $5 million.
		Even the, it seems to me, the TV shows, the larger magazines, they're not going to offer that kind of $5 million.
		Because her story may be nothing more than, yeah, sure, I had some sex with the press.
		I did.
		And I think she has said that in certain venues anyway.
		No supporting perjury, none of the rest of it, and $5 million, and she's out of there.
		Boy, it sure makes sense to me, and wherever you are, Monica, or your attorney.
		I'd be considering that one very thoroughly tonight.
		As a matter of fact, I talked to Jim of the Jim and Julie show earlier, and he said the check is already cut and is with a middle party.
		So it's a very serious as a heart attack offer.
unidentified		you you you East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Gary out of St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Gary.
unidentified		How you doing tonight, sir?
		Okay.
		I was going to tell you, I finally got to finish your book, The Quickening.
		Good.
		Enjoyed it.
		And I've got you a new fan.
		One of my cousins, I found out she's a very good fan of Gordon Michael Scallion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And I explained about your program and about Dreamland, and I told her, you need to listen to this.
		And she told me she's going to listen to it.
		Hopefully this weekend.
		She's one of these people that's retired me, Bet Monica.
		She needs to sit there and tell them, show me the money when they show her the money, do the interview, and leave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got the money.
		I know this is not an issue.
		I mean, I know for sure.
		This is one of my affiliates.
		I know.
		The money is sitting there.
		The check is ready.
		The check is good.
		It's already cut.
		A third party's got it.
		All she has to do is come and do the interview.
		That's it.
unidentified		Hey, Beth.
		You know, I mean, if you gave me $5 million, I'd let all our Gelden out of my closet.
		I'm just, hey.
		Oh, you were talking about the flu epidemic that's been going around.
		We're glad that you and Ramona are doing better from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		They had an article in a local St. Louis paper.
unidentified		They said that it's down from only 500 some-odd cases to 300 some-odd cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		It's marching across the country like a bad dream.
		This flu this year has been very bad.
		I tend to side with those people I've had on.
		And every one of them is saying, look out, here comes disease.
		And shortly, disease that they're not going to be able to cure.
		I believe it.
		I absolutely believe it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Is this art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and I can barely hear you wherever you are.
unidentified		Okay, I'm in LaGrand, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to yell into that phone.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I am in LaGrand, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I just want to say that I love your show, and I agree with you about Monica.
		I think she should definitely take the money and run.
		And I just want to leave with just to say hi to my brother, Springfield, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's his name?
unidentified		Joe Edward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, hi there to you, from Oregon to Oregon, I guess.
		Take the money and run.
		I mean, this is a real offer, and the way I read the Lewinsky situation, she's not prevented from doing it.
		It would set her for the rest of her life.
		She could then choose to cooperate with Starr or simply testify in front of the grand jury.
		And if the story is that she had sex with the president, the president doesn't get thrown from office for that, unless there's supporting the perjury and the rest of that, which there apparently is not, and that was the hitch in getting her immunity.
		So, oh, boy, I'd grab the five mil.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Jeff from Penson, Alabama again.
		Yes, sir.
		I just want to talk about the Iraqi situation here.
		I can't help but wonder if some of Saddam's palaces might not be too close to some of the oil pipelines.
		Because if I wanted to smuggle some types of warheads around, you do understand that in some of these oil pipelines they have these things called pigs.
		What better way to move things around than to put warheads inside these pigs?
		You could put them underground.
		Satellites couldn't pick them up.
		You could slip around all into these pipelines.
		And at the terminus, you could put them, disguise them just as regular acetylene tanks.
		You could ship them all over the place and put them on ships.
		Let the inspectors come in, look at everything, say everything's fine, all right.
		Now that the so-called war is over, they ship them over here to us, and next time Saddam gets around and we come over there, he's already got the weapons in place here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I'll tell you, we've already decided we're going to go to war with Iraq.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The most interesting news of the night is that we have quietly changed our nuclear weapons policy to admit the tar to include the targeting of Iraq with tactical nuclear weapons.
unidentified		They may replace some of those, the warheads that are smart with fuel-air explosives or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but, sir, you're missing the point.
		The president has signed an order which changes our nuclear policy, allowing the targeting of Iraq.
		Forget fuel-air explosives.
		They're talking about nuclear devices.
		We are targeting nuclear devices at Iraq now.
		Again, that comes from Newsday.
		I mean, you think a little bit about that.
		Nuclear Weapons in the Middle East.
		Think about the story that ran just prior to the top of the hour about Russia having given biological weapons, materials, and macins to Iraq or selling them in 1995.
		You better think about all of this a little bit.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Yes.
		Good evening, Mr. Bell.
		This is Norm from Campbell, California.
		I'm a first-time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Norm.
unidentified		Hi.
		I've been trying to reach you for months.
		Several months ago, I had my very, very first upfront, personal, in-my-face UFO sighting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll do it.
unidentified		I've been interested in UFOs, but I've never before seen anything that I could classify as a UFO.
		Excuse me if I'm a little excited.
		I've finally got through to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you see?
unidentified		Okay, that's what I wanted to ask you if you've ever seen anything with characteristics like this craft.
unidentified		It was circular, about 25 feet in diameter and approximately 8 to 10 feet high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now to get those measurements, it must have been really in your face.
unidentified		It was less than a quarter of a mile and about 500 feet in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did it do?
unidentified		Okay, it was tumbling.
		It was hovering there.
		Just hovering, but it was tumbling while it was hovering.
		Like you take a quarter and you toss it in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
unidentified		Tumbling.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Absolutely, totally silent.
unidentified		It was tumbling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now, see, that would have just scared the fire out of me.
unidentified		I just, I stood and watched it.
		It was very strange.
		The most, the weirdest part about it that got to me, it looked like an Oreo cookie.
		You know, forget the pun.
		That wasn't supposed to be a pun.
		That's what it resembled.
		And the upper and lower halves were bigger than the middle portion, the middle segment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Slightly.
		And I could see all aspects of it because I watched it tumble.
		And it was there for several minutes just tumbling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm all right.
		I thank you for the call and the sighting report.
		I have no idea what to say to you about that.
		You're one of millions.
		We generally don't do just sighting reports here because, frankly, as I said yesterday, and I'm going to say it again today, we are way past the threshold of whether they are here.
		They are here.
		Something is here.
		It's clear more Americans than not have seen something.
		Take calls all night long.
		That threshold is now past.
		Wildcard line, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		My name's Tim, and I'm calling from Central Point.
		And I was just wondering if you had heard anything else about the U.N. taking over nuclear bombs.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I've heard that there is a proposal on the table in front of the president to remove the nuclear warheads and to consider putting them under the auspices of the UN.
		Now, if the Russians did the same thing, it might be a safer world.
		If the Chinese did it, Pakistan, India, the Israelis, Great Britain, France, and on and on, then it would be a safer world.
		But if you think all of that is going to happen, then I have a great bridge for you in Manhattan.
		Good price.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, this is Frenchie at the Massachusetts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Okay.
		Glad to hear that.
		With the atomic bombs that you guys have been talking about, I heard ex-President Jimmy Carter on the radio today, and he threw his two cents in and said that he didn't think it would be a good idea to send nukes over there to blast out those supposed stockpiles of anthrax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whether or not he considers it a good idea, our president just authorized it.
unidentified		You know why?
unidentified		You know why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because he thinks they're going to use biologicals against us, and if they do, then I too would be in favor of nukes.
unidentified		No, well, maybe that too, but if a nuke goes off over there and it doesn't burn up the germs right away, it might send them all into the air and then kill 200 or 300,000 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, but you see, the fireball produced by a nuclear device would, in effect, cauterize, I think, even the most severe biological installation.
		Using lesser weapons runs a greater risk of such neutralization.
		But even at that, I don't think they would be used unless biologicals were actually deployed against us or chemicals.
		And I'm sorry to say, I consider that fairly likely.
		So the president signing this order is pretty significant.
		Are you ready?
		I suspect we'll be at war a week from Friday at the latest.
		Now, coming up after the top of the hour is American Computer Company President Jack Shulman.
		Jack Shulman runs a large IBM type company that sells computers.
		And he has for some time now been claiming that he has alien technology that he's been back engineering that are going to result in some remarkable computer products in the immediate future at that.
		so we're going to ask him about all of this coming up shortly.
		I'm Art Bell, and from the high desert, which will answer...
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		I don't hear asking if it's going wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Jack Shulman, who was a former officer of the United States, who was a former officer of the United States, who was a former officer of the United States.
		recently advanced to chairman of ACC American Computer Company is a computer scientist who as a contractor systems engineer or as an employee developing new technology and providing advanced system design and implementation has worked for IBM AT ⁇ T Bell Labs Data General Wang Labs Apollo Computer the U.S. government Prudential Corporation RJ Nabisco
		The Bell System, Citicorp ITT, Singer Lockheed, Grumman, ABCNBC, RCA.
		My God, this man has been around.
		As head of the Apollo Office of the Future Project for IBM Kodak and the Institute of Imaging Science, Jack Schulman successfully translated his own innovation, the use of Windows on a computer display, which he first invented in 1973 and 4, onto IBM, AT&T, and Apollo, the Sun Terminal, and other computers in the late 70s and early 80s.
		Now, why is he here tonight?
		Well, let me read to you from a CNI report just clearing the Internet wires.
		A few people in recent memory have kicked up as big a ruckus on the Internet as Jack Schulman, president of New Jersey-based American Computer Company.
		CNI News has previously reported on Schulman's claims, including the possibility that Bell Lab scientists invented the transistor in 1947 after studying alien artifacts from Roswell or some other UFO
		crash, an American computer's announcement of a potentially revolutionary invention, the transcapacitor, transcap or tcap, which not only could make the transistor and integrated circuit seem primitive by comparison, but which also may have been derived from study of alien technology as recorded in an old laboratory notebook in Schulman's possession.
		Of all the claims made by Schulman, perhaps none is more intriguing than the transcapacitor.
		Schulman has described this alleged device in enough detail to attract the serious attention of electronics experts.
		Schulman says it already exists and will soon be manufactured into consumer products like computer memory with vastly larger capacity than current hard drives.
		If Schulman is right, his new device will seem, in hindsight, to have appeared as if by magic with almost magical properties just like the transistor did 50 years ago.
		Needless to say, electronics experts are trying to understand how Schulman's device might work since in his public disclosures he has thus far withheld some rather important details of its structure as, by the way, anybody would expect in such circumstance.
		Those trying to evaluate his claims are required to speculate quite a bit.
		Nonetheless, a lot can be learned from what Schulman has said.
		The question is, does his device make
		make any sense can it possibly be real and that is I think a rather objective story from CNI News Jack Shulman welcome to the program thank you Art how do you receive that CNI internet report does that seem fair to you well actually I think it was most eloquently spoken by yourself Art to compliment you because you and I have not really had too much time to chat in the past.
		No, we've not.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And I've heard your show, and actually I'm quite flattered that CNI News bothered to carry any information at all about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, if what you claim to have is in fact what you have, then it represents a giant leap for mankind.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting, Art, because this all came about as a result not of our making claims to the public so much, and I think you may have some information about this already because we've tried to relate it to a lot of folks.
		But we've been for the last, I'd say, six or seven months or so investigating the allegations that were made to us that the transistor and other technologies that have been developed by commercial research establishments since 1947 came off of,
		allegedly, a craft of some kind that crashed in the plains of San Agustin, outside of Roswell, New Mexico, near the Max Bezier Ranch.
		And we were very, very puzzled when about, oh, I'd say 13 or so months ago, has asked to remain anonymous, an individual of extreme influence and power and repute, whom we've referred to euphemistically as the consultant,
		a person with military communications and other background, had made allegations that were very serious to me that I, from somebody whom I knew and respected for the better part of my life, found extremely skeptical.
		That is, I didn't believe them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the consultant an employee of yours or is he truly in that position?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is he a sometimes paid consultant to your company or just an acquaintance?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the better way to describe it is that he and I were working on a completely unrelated to American Computer Company project, which American Computer Company was in fact partly funding.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		The project was in fact an effective evaluation as to whether or not policies and tariffs in place in the telephone industry were having an adverse effect on the ability of people to demonstrably use their computers to access the Internet, demonstrably avail themselves of technology at a lower price, and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were dabbling actually in the politics of I'd actually call it more like a legal and historical assessment.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We were looking at it from the perspective of 1976 forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does this person in any way have any connection to Colonel Corso or what Colonel Corso did?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting because we had not heard of Colonel Corso until several months into the investigation at American Computer.
		We are not or were not at the time very knowledgeable about the whole, shall we call it, investigative aspect of the ufology and ETI industry.
		It actually came as a surprise to learn that there was actually someone else who was making similar kinds of allegations, albeit from a different time period looking backwards at 1947 in time, and also from the context of having had personal involvement with the alleged transmission of materials directly to companies like AT ⁇ T and GE, supposedly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, this consultant at some point then actually brought to you physical stuff.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where it gets a little bit strange, actually, because I told him, frankly, as much as I respected his position, that I didn't believe that any of this was so, that it couldn't be true, because, you know, I had grown up in the shadow of Bell Laboratories.
		I was quite close to the head of Bell Labs Semiconductor Division in Bell Labs itself.
		I went to a private high school where my best friend in high school and college was the son of the man who was essentially the de facto head of the transistor project and before that a project to produce something called a vacuum tryout, a close-spaced vacuum trial that made broadcast radio and broadcast television on a nationwide basis a possibility.
		And I was actually literally dumbfounded by the suggestion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell us anything about the consultant's connections?
		In other words, from where this material came, where he got the information?
		Does he give any of that to you?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, initially, he explained it to me that he had had a lot of contact with the chairperson of Bell Labs during the time period, heads of various projects, and subsequently he had consulted to them in a kind of advisory capacity as they prepared for the breakup of the Bell system.
		And he indicated that he had been taken really into some of the innermost circles of this huge, actually incredibly huge, Bell system that existed prior to its deregulation and breakup at the outset of the 80s.
		And that decade before, he'd had several contacts with them that in fact included, he indicated, evaluation of technology for which in private conversations that he had with certain key executives, he at least stated that they knew that it in fact had not come from any form of earthly engineering or research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The original transistor.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, not just the original transistor, but a successive series of technological evolutionary developments that had been directed within the lab's environment by the study of extra-worldly properties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Why would the consultant have brought the trans-capacitor technology to you instead of Bell Labs or one of their subsidiaries?
		In other words, you're a pretty good-sized company, Jack.
		No question about that, but you're not Bell Labs.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Well, actually, I guess we aren't the size of Bell Labs.
		However, we have some unique properties that Bell Labs may not have, one of which is the ability to, not necessarily from the, particularly from the scientific research perspective, but from the, shall we say, intuitive perspective, the ability to divorce ourselves from the politics and from the administerial marketing representations that make a corporation what it appears to be to the public.
		And having much of the same scientific and research background and contacts, albeit not on a scale with Abbell Labs, obviously a huge, well-respected research organization, I guess he felt that he trusted that our treatment of it would be A, truthful and B,
		thorough, and that we would do everything in our power to evaluate, investigate if the allegations that had been made to him in turn and his observations and evaluations and assessments which he recanted to us, if in fact they were true, if these things actually came off some kind of crashed or captured UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He would have had to have imagined that coming from you, though, such an announcement would be in many quarters disbelieved and doubted simply because of the size of your company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming from Bell Labs, big deal.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a fair assessment in some quarters.
		However, I think, frankly, these allegations at this particular juncture, without the final assessment as to whether they are, in fact, 100% accurate or not, whether we announced them to the public, that these have been claims that were made to us and we're investigating them, or whether Bell Labs did, we felt that they would, in fact, no matter who announced them, they would be treated with a certain degree of incredulity.
		In fact, a substantial degree of incredulity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have been.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you actually receive the device known as the transcapacitor?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't given to us as a device.
		What happened is, after a period of time during which I had very bluntly stated to the consultant that I was disinterested in pursuing any course of investigation, in other words, cough up something physical or go away.
		Produced something that would, in fact, entice me into believing that this was anything more than just hearsay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		He came back to us with a very succinct sampling of materials that were from an outside source, whom he described as a genuine and very, very careful pack rat.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I think you know what I mean by a pack rat, one of those people who accumulates just about anything and everything around them and keeps them in his home or her home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm one of them, so I know.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that by reputation, argue.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I have a way of pulling things out of your hat that nobody remembers ever having existed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a closet here when you open it could fall on somebody and kill them.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, hope not.
		In any event, the pack rat had this aggregation of different things that he had kept from his career providing services to government and or other projects involving Bell Labs.
		He was something called a shopkeeper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Somebody who maintained the plant, as it was called.
		They have unusual terminology in the land of the true voice, if you know what I mean.
		One of the more unique terminologies is to call something a plant, and when you go there and you're expecting to see very large dynamos and things that go, what you in fact encounter are all these very innocuous looking, very large offices with huge, long shelves filled with books and materials and tables with strange-looking electronic devices on it.
		He was responsible for the setup and breakdown of those kinds of labs.
		It was interesting phenomena in the time period we discovered when we started to investigate what the consultant came to us.
		They apparently had a very unique method for operating some of the labs at the Bell Labs environment there in Murray Hill and South, which was they wouldn't tell you if you were fired.
		They would simply send a shopkeeper down and he would take the notebook, as it was called, the aggregation of materials representing your ongoing research, load it onto a rolling cart and would disappear with it.
		No instructions, no directions, just an invitation to attend a meeting the next Monday or Tuesday, at which time you would appear, there would be two or three individuals, and you would be given a new project.
		You would never return to the office or lab where you were, and you would now be assigned to a new project.
		No pat on the back for any work performed, no pink slip, nothing.
		You were just basically fired off that project.
		Well, apparently, this particular book or notebook, which really is more than just a notebook, it's sort of like a notebook in the analogy of the entire set of shop manuals for all of General Motors cars, if you know what I mean.
		A long collection that lasted literally would have fit into one or two sofas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The notebook documenting all of this hardware.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Notebook documenting not just the trans cap, but a whole series of breakdown, evaluation, and analysis of things that were given to Bell Labs to evaluate.
		Any idea of who authored the Well, actually, portions of it have people's names like D. Llewellyn comes up quite frequently.
		They do appear to be a mixture of not just research people in the Bell Labs context, but they also appear to be people from some military research apparatus and possibly even people from other companies who are coming in as visiting consultative scientists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a regular businessman with a regular IBM computer type company, you had to have been utterly blown away by all of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember the first tentative websites that you had up about this, which sort of tentatively asked people questions about what they thought about Roswell.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It was, in fact, exactly.
		It's a precisely accurate characterization.
		We were very tentative because, frankly, we were timidly touching our toes in the water on a subject matter that ordinarily we would have thought of as being out there, I guess is the term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So was it kind of a plea on your part to say, look, is the whole Roswell thing Real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there really something to this, knowing all the time that you had more that you were wondering about and you just sort of wanted to verify the whole story?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I think we started to look at it as a satirical and possibly slightly historical.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps even to some degree, we tried to make it look a little humorous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was quite a bit of satire in the early websites.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We really didn't.
		I mean, there still is a bit, but the point was we didn't know how the public would react to this.
		We found out, but we had no idea.
		But we took it upon ourselves, sort of courageously, in a way, to at least try to kick the tires on the subject matter, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, kick the tires is what we'll do when we come back.
		We're going to break here at the bottom of the arrow.
		Jack Shulman from the American Computer Company is my guest from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-tour presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
		Oh My heart is on fire.
		My hope like the wheel has turned.
		My love is in life.
		My love is alive, yes, yeah, yeah.
		My love is alive, yes, yeah.
		There's something inside that's making me crazy.
		I'll try to keep it together.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		We're going to kick the tires on the transcapacitor in a moment.
		Back now to Jack Schulman of the American Computer Company, which possesses something called the trans-capacitor, back-engineered from alien technology, ostensibly from a crash near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947.
		Jack, what exactly I'm a little bit into electronics here.
		The yes-no gates, I have a basic concept of what it is.
		What is a trans capacitor?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It's actually quite a very surprising series of concepts rolled into a device.
		The way the transistor works, as I think many people know, is by having three components layered together.
		The middle component can cause power to pass between the outer two by varying a voltage to it.
		Really, that's all it does.
		It acts like an on-off switch, or it acts like an amplifier.
		We were, in fact, stunned to find amongst the drawings a described device that had propensities for gathering charge and being able to modify that charge in a way that was readable by electronic circuitry,
		that was approximately the same size as a transistor, give or take a few microns, and had a few more ways of power entering and leaving it than a transistor, using a slightly different, what appeared to the researchers at the time in the late 40s, mix of mineral, chemical, you know, paper, scissors, rock.
		Sure.
		Ultimately, which by very subtle variations of current caused it to change the electropolarity of charges within it such that its energy levels could be read to be at different gradients in a range that ranged in a number field, if you were to kind of break it down into a number, from 1 to, say, 10 to the 23rd power parts.
		That would be 10 with 23rd zeros strung after it.
		In other words, a single component could store a number that large.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so then could we draw this parallel that if a transistor says yes and no, a trans capacitor has gradients of it.
		It doesn't say a complete yes or a complete no.
		It will give you gradients of that, allowing for decision-making.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting because it does work analogistically.
		We looked at it.
		It works in a way not too dissimilar from the way we think the rods and cones of an eyeball work, of the human eye work, by storing gradients of light.
		Although in this particular case, it's not storing light.
		It's dealing with predominantly electromagnetic memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then could we slap this analogy on it, that if a transistor is black and white, this has every shade in between?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's a good one, a very, very good analogy, because if you were to take a look at it, if the old-style television camera could only record a black or a white image, the human eyeball could in fact store, or actually examine and analyze and store a memory of color images.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That does make sense.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and what's fascinating about it is it does it very, very fast.
		It works at speeds that were at first to us unthinkable until we realized it's really just making subtle changes in the way it stores the electrons within its matrix.
		So it doesn't require a lot of energy.
		It doesn't require a lot of time.
		It's so surprisingly innovative That we're not entirely certain, frankly, why this was not, in fact, shall we say, exploited by the researchers who defined functionally what they thought it did at the time.
		Other than that they may not at the time have had sophistication enough realized how this thing could interface with other, what we think of today as common components like the transistor, the resistor, the capacitor, and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so the public might understand.
		I think we've given them that part at least to understand.
		Now, what would the practical application of a trans capacitor be?
		And I can only imagine you've begun to explore practical application, but how could you use it?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's really attracted us to its usage in what we call common memory in a computer is that without the sort of extra componentry that a transistor requires, like a resistor possibly in a capacitor, it can store where a transistor, for instance, can store a value of 0 or 1, or in the case of some that have been developed by Bell or Sandia or Sandia National Laboratories or IBM.
		Recently, IBM worked on some copper-based circuits.
		They developed a transistor that could store 7 or 10 or a value from 0 through 16, perhaps.
		By comparison, the gradients of this device, operating analogously to the human eye looking at color, one of the rods and cones of the eye, it could store a number that was as large as 10 with 23 zeros after, in fact, larger.
		In binary terms, we call the size of what it can store somewhere in the neighborhood of about 512 transistors or even potentially more in one device.
		One little component.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So take today's disk drive or today's read-only memory in a computer or give me some analogy?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I think the working analogy we're working with that we've explained at this particular juncture would be take a look at the common everyday ordinary mouse that we use to access a computer, the one that we use to move that little I-beam or the little arrow around on a computer terminal screen or on a typical personal computer.
		And imagine something that size storing hundreds of buildings of information.
		90 billion characters of information.
unidentified		Good morning.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Million characters of information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not million, billion with a B. Well, we're imagining a mouse as a storage device then.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		In a way, but I didn't mean to suggest that it was approximate size.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We've tried to say the same size as a disk drive in a personal computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		But people don't know what that means.
		They think that that's the big white box next to their computer.
		So we're saying something that is approximately the size of a man's wallet, perhaps a little bit thicker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would store...
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		7 gigabytes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7 gigabyte, yeah, you might get something in that range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would the trans capacitor offer in a similar size?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		If we were to make one that was fully as dense as possible in that size, we'd be talking about something in the neighborhood of about 2 to 4 terabytes of information.
		That's an extra three digits, if you will, an extra large sum, a huge amount of information.
		Information that a personal computer-sized one could store all the information we presently have.
		In fact, we've estimated that you could take the entire World Wide Web, you know, all those World Wide Web websites that everybody wants to see out there, like yours, Art, which is linked to yours, Bob.
		Yours is what, artbell.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And ours, of course, is accpc.com.
		And you could take the entire web and put it into something the size of a small desk.
		And because of its speed, you could, if you had one of these advanced terahertz communications systems that they're producing at supposedly at Lucent Bell Labs today, you could run that terahertz communications wire from one to another one in California, if you were in New York, and transmit the entire thing from New York.
		It would be the entire World Wide Web's content of information all the way to California in only a matter of minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about speed?
		Today I think we're coming up.
		IBM is brushing 333 megahertz commercially right now.
		What would the trans capacitor do for processor speed, if anything?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We have actually measured individual components in a speed lately of something like 6.6 billion bits of information per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		6.6 billion?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		6 billion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does that translate to a megahertz clock speed?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that for the 333 million megahertz, as it were, million, compares to 6.6 billion as, I guess, what, 20 times the speed of a Pentium 333.
		So it has that capability.
		However, we're running into an area now where we're missing a few other components that might be necessary to keep up with it to get a PC to run at that speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, including no software that would run.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, we're talking about a whole world of different software.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, supposedly, if we stop and imagine for a moment that kind of speed and that kind of storage, don't we begin to approach the possibility of sentience?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		You mean intelligence just because of the speed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speed and storage?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's comparable to human memory capacity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That I think is very accurate.
		But frankly, I'm surprised no one had, in fact, suggested to me that analogy in the last, I'd say, two months.
		We had suggested that this thing operates not unlike a neural connective device.
		Are you familiar with neural networks at all, Mark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am, yes.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, a neural network for the public's sake is nothing more than an array of switches That turn on or off depending upon what a program recognizes as, say, a situation, and later on can then be used to make the same kind of a decision that one might make given the same type of situation.
		That's the analogy that's used, the decision-making matrix, if you will.
		There are thousands of different types of so-called neural networks, but frankly, up until now, they've been rather small.
		As we looked further or deeper into the description of this device, we realized at some point that this transcapacitor was used in arrays so large, not just because it could store information, but we discovered that some of the elements of communicating with a transcapacitor were designed to cross-talk between matrices of transcapacitors.
		Initially, we didn't build our prototypical board to try to develop this thing that way, but we gradually tried to construct a means by which you would use this communication capability between transcapacitors.
		And then one day it all just came clear to us that the reason why there are extra leads on this device for cross-communication between its peers in a huge array is because it appears as if it was used in some kind of a neural connectionist computing device.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to read you something very quickly and see if it has relevance.
		I just got this.
		It's entitled, Scientists Grow Brain Cells on a Microchip.
		Brain cells have been grown on a microchip to create a simple brain to study how the real thing works and how easy it's going to be to connect computers to the human nervous system.
		The work reported yesterday to the New Orleans conference is part of an effort to merge the world's two dominant forms of information processing, the neurons in your brain, is using to read this sentence in electronics.
		In the wake of pioneering work conducted in Germany, the University of California at San Diego told the meeting that they had developed a neural chip, a device for growing rat neurons in a silicon chip that could one day help restore vision, reconnect nerves, or control an artificial limb.
		So, in other words, a connection between not human, but rat brain neurons and a chip, actual neurons grown on a chip.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With great implications to what you're talking about, the trans capacitor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is an obvious, more of a sophisticated interface for this kind of work.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that that's extremely interesting because I get the distinct impression from the documents that I've looked at that this neural connectionist type of machine that was built from transcapacitors had a biological interface on it.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It was apparently intended to augment the capabilities of a typical, of a sentient species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Look, I understand that your business, American Computer Company, was broken into.
		Now, when did that occur?
		And as a result of what do you think, why did they break into your business, Jack?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, that was not a very pleasant experience, Art.
		It was at the tail end of July, about a week after we posted the sort of tentative article you talked about.
		Right.
		A little over a week, a couple days past a week.
		And I would say about mid to late that week, we received a very, very strange facsimile transmission in our emergency tech support department at American Computer.
		It was something that came off some kind of a computing system.
		Well, I shouldn't say some kind, because that would suggest I don't know what computing system.
		It came off of what looked like one of our embedded computing systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Something that could be used for ground development or airborne development of a flight control system or communications control system.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And it had apparently, either by mistake or by intent, sent us a transmission describing some kind of an orbital space platform that's known by the code name SkyStation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And this platform, which we have since learned is some kind of a weapons-based platform.
		We don't know entirely all of the details.
		We've had consultants who've worked for us on professional services, who've worked at SPAR, Raytheon, or General Dynamics, where subsystems for this thing were built.
		The facsimile was transferred to us indicating that the device was in the process of either failure or being taken offline for the purposes of retasking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This space-based weapon system.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Now, we didn't at the time know that it was a space-based weapon system.
		We just recognized the form of the transmission and grew alarmed because normally the type of transmission that was sent us, which was a type of specialized error message, would be sent out in an emergency situation.
		Like, for instance, if something was being shot down, if it had a collision, or if it was being destabilized, interfered with, natural disaster, something.
		So we grew a little bit alarmed because we figured this is something that obviously was in the hands of the military, sending us a transmission to our fax machine, perhaps erroneously, but probably due to the fact that we put emergency diagnostic procedures in our computer systems which have tables of telephone numbers to call.
		And we receive this transmission and I look at it, my staff look at it, we do a kind of what you might call a collective double take.
		And here it is only a matter of days since this article was published on our website.
		And we figure out how are we going to tell whoever owns this that we've just received this emergency error message, this emergency we're shutting down message from this sky station.
		So intriguingly, I get on the phone and I start making phone calls.
		I start by calling local military base.
		Then I call the, I try to reach someone at the Pentagon.
		The Pentagon, it turns out, at 5.43 in the evening and 6.30 in the evening, everybody's gone home.
		Apparently they, you know, synthetical activities, people go home.
		I really actually didn't know they closed the Pentagon, to be frank with you.
		But actually, I guess in these days of downsizing and budget reductions, they close the Pentagon to the public.
		So in any event, we ultimately almost gave up and then gave a call to the Central Intelligence Agency, to their duty office.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They worked 24 hours.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I gather.
		They're covering all time zones.
		And got a very friendly voice on the line and explained in detail the situation.
		Now, I don't know if they use voice monitors to try to tell whether or not you're telling the truth or what, but this guy must have decided that I was telling the truth or he recognized my name or somebody had a dossier on me.
		I have no idea.
		He directed me where to call and who the asset belonged to.
		So I contacted Langley Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Which, of course, is probably, in my recent memory, the most harrowing phone conversation I think I ever had.
		I reached Sergeant James, and I got one of the most skeptical individuals I've ever spoken to on the phone, and tried to explain to him why I, a member of the public, am calling him about a military transmission to my computer company's emergency tech support fax machine.
		He's never heard of me.
		He's never heard of the company.
		This call is in the evening hours, and it sounds like someone who is either pulling some kind of a stunt or someone who is trying to figure out some secret military information, maybe somebody whom he should send out someone to have arrested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		So we spend about a half an hour on the phone, and I'm now driving along in my car with my car phone talking to this guy, and he's telling me after a while, okay, he'll put me through to somebody.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I get through to somebody, and I get the first three words of the facts out of my mouth, and he interrupts me.
unidentified		And he tells me I should pull over by the side of the road.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		He tells me I should take this facts, and I should secure it by whatever means I can.
		He asks me to read the codes off of it, two of them.
		And then he tells me I shouldn't share it with anybody and that I should keep it secured and someone will pick it up later.
		Well, okay.
		I say, okay.
		He's a very authoritarian individual.
		He somehow managed to reach me in my car phone out of nowhere.
		Somebody gave him my phone number.
		This was on a callback, by the way, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At this point, they have your attention.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		And so I continue with the facts.
		I get home and I keep it.
		And I go to work the next day.
		And business as usual.
		And I'd say about three-quarters of the way through the day, I'm beginning to get curious why hasn't anyone called me to pick up whatever this is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that is a perfect place to hang the audience up.
		And so that's what we're going to do.
		We're going to hang them up right here.
		Jack, hold on.
		We'll be right back to you after the top of the hour.
		You've got a good rest.
		Jack Schulman from American Computer Company is my guest.
unidentified		Hello, go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you've been listening, you won't be going anywhere.
unidentified		Sweet, Jack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
		You won't have to thank her twice.
		She's pure as New York snow.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Jack Schulman, CEO of American Computer Company.
		He is in possession of what he claims to be alien technology in the form of something called a trans-capacitor, which if applied to storage and speed with regard to a computer, would make the modern-day computer as an abacus would be compared to a 333 megahertz computer today.
		In other words, it would change the world.
		And we're right in the middle of a story that we'll pick up on in a moment regarding his acquisition of this and then a break-in at his company's headquarters.
		The End The man who may change the computer world forevermore as we know it and our world generally forevermore as we know it, for the trans capacitor in a device as large as your mouse, the mouse you use to manipulate your computer,
		could literally transfer from one side of the country to the other the contents of the entire World Wide Web to give you some idea of what we're talking about.
		A sentient machine?
		Probably.
		A storage?
		Speed?
		That's what human beings are made up of.
		That's what our brain is, storage and speed and maybe something more.
		I guess we're going to find out.
		Anyway, here's Jack once again.
		He was in his car.
		It was giving some identifying numbers to somebody on the telephone past the CIA.
		The person is telling Jack, secure this document.
		And from there, what occurred, Jack?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was interesting.
		We were in the middle of a little bit of stormy weather, and I was crossing the Hudson River.
		Have you been to New York at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		So you know what the Hudson River can be like to cross, particularly on a bridge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		In the middle of some stormy weather.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And the phone that I was using kicked out, and the individual apparently decided at that moment he was, in the classical fashion, going to not bother to call me back, having told me that I should secure this And that I should, in essence, keep it from any public contact, not discuss it further over a telephone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe he thought you hung up on him.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
		And so what he, I don't think he realized, was that the phone I was using was a computer-based telephone, which I keep in my car.
		And I was able to actually dial back in and find the extension he was working on, which is one of the little-known features of the federal telecommunications system, which I, some years ago, worked on.
		And dialed right back to his desk, surprised the daylights out of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Said, well, I guess that indicates to you, anyway, that I must be a part of the computer industry.
unidentified		And he goes, yeah, I must be real.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		What should I do?
unidentified		And he said, well, just stay calm and we'll come and get this.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry.
		So the next day, as I mentioned, I went to work, and about three-quarters of the way through, I became a little concerned because here I have this hot potato in our possession, this document which apparently has some kind of secrets and classified material and classified information on it.
		And so I make a couple of frantic calls, shall we say, to the Pentagon again, and I get a call back, and I'm told, okay, don't worry about it.
		Someone will get back to you.
		It's the end of the week already now.
		I go on into the weekend.
		I take the material with me home, keeping it on my person like a loyal subject of the American Republic, shall we say.
		And I'm wondering what's going to happen.
		And Saturday working at home, and Sunday I'm working at home, and I go into work on Monday, and I get there, and lo and behold, there is Vinny, the maintenance man, cleaning up what looks to me to be a whole bunch of glass in the doorway entrance to my offices.
		And I look at him, and he's looking at me kind of strangely.
		I'm looking at him, and I'm realizing we don't have any door, or in fact, entranceway glass anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Completely blown out.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Completely blown out into shards of little tiny pieces.
		But I'm telling you, when I say heavy-duty glass, I mean heavy-duty glass.
		The lock has been reeked asunder, and I go into the offices, and sure enough, various parts of the office have evidence of having been overturned, examined, looked through.
		I stop everybody, because when people encounter something like this, they usually don't realize they're just spoiling an evidence scene, if you know what I mean.
		And so I try to stop Vinny, who's, you know, for whatever reason starts cleaning up the glass ridiculously.
		I stop the people who'd got into the office before me, one of the secretaries and another person, and stop people who were coming in.
		And I get the local police department in Cranford on the phone, and I ask them if they'd mind coming up here.
		It turns out that Vinny had called them, but they hadn't come up.
		Apparently, he'd encountered this at about 5.30 in the morning, and he just reported it and didn't make a big to-do, and so the police didn't come up for a while.
		They finally did arrive, and we went through them walking around the office, taking pictures, filing the usual pro forma reports, taking statements from people who had really nothing much to tell them other than that, oh yes, this was overturned, that was overturned.
		We found very few, very strange pattern of theft, useless or valueless things like a broken-up old CD player.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like they didn't know what to take.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, almost like they just grabbed whatever they at the moment could grab to make it look like they were robbing the place.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And also, for all intents and purposes, somebody who'd gone through our motion detectors in our lobby, our key card security system with the silent alarms, the motion detectors that detect the elevator moving when the alarms are set, the heavy-duty, heavy-gauge doors, both glass in the front and glass in our offices, and had also then gone through breaking open several doors in,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this wasn't the Watergate group.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were real good, whoever they were, because they didn't leave a single fingerprint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's CIA or Pentagon.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so that's the end of that story.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I decided at that particular juncture, because I'm walking in with my briefcase, and in my briefcase is this facts, that I'm bubbling over trying not to tell the police about this facts in the briefcase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to be asking yourself at this point, was it the fax or was it the trans capacitor which you had already been talking about?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, in fact, at that particular juncture, I had talked about the transcapacitor because we are a little out of sync in terms of publicity versus what have been going on.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I've been talking with the transcapacitor about the transcapacitor privately with people in the scientific community, consulting with them and asking them about these designs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it could have been either one, really.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		So we have these three suspects, the story on our website, the transcapacitor, the facts that's in my possession, or the robbery of about 27 cents worth of change in the honor bar in our lobby, which I doubted.
		I doubt the last one art.
		In any event, I mean, it was really, really strange.
		I mean, for very valuable $10,000, $20,000 computers, things you could have literally walked out with, laptop computers with 15-inch, 14-inch screens, hard drives, things you could have just walked into the office and walked out of the office with, were left behind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it's obvious they're not there to rob you.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Right, they were there to look through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, some time later, we realized that there had been some things secreted into the back of one of our file cabinets.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Some recordable C Ds and some odd documents that, you know, it's a later story art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Recordable C D's?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, which in fact had material on them, which we thoroughly analyzed at first and then returned to their owner, the Defense Communications Agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my gosh.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it gets a little bit strange at that particular juncture because I called the Pentagon because now I have this now an even more overwhelming incentive to try to get this facts out of my possession, sticking to me like fly paper.
		Sure.
		And this event happening out of the blue.
		I know we've been in that facility five, seven, eight years, never once, something like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At this point, you're probably concerned for your physical well-being.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you that at that particular moment, I wasn't certain what was going on, so I can tell you I called each of my family members and loved ones to see if anything had happened in their homesteads and to make certain that they were okay.
		Of course, the local police in each town who knew me and said, look, you know, my mother and father are alone.
		Could you perhaps just check to see if everything's all right?
		So I worried at first about them, and then I started worrying a little bit about my staff and myself.
		At that point, I called back to a contact at the Pentagon in the situation room, and I explained that Colonel James and this other fellow who would do, you know, a lieutenant who had contacted us by the car phone, had not picked up this fax, and we just had a break-in.
		And I said, look, you know, we've got two things here.
		I can go to where there's a secured fax machine.
		I can securely fax this fax to you so you can look at it.
		Or I can put it in some kind of courier pouch.
		Well, I was told, ordered, don't give it to anyone.
		Then I'd say about four hours later, I got a call from someone at McGuire Air Force Base in South Jersey who said that she wanted to discuss the matter with me.
		I was not at the office at that particular moment.
		I'd stepped out, and so when I got back, I called her, and she made arrangements for me the next day to meet a pair of Air Force Office of Special Investigations agents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Boy, you know, normally you would expect a couple of guys in suits with national security type IDs would show up and simply collect the facts from you.
		Ask you if you had any copies, take some sort of statement, and leave.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, here we have this fax, and without our knowledge, because it wasn't until a couple months later that we even realized that maybe somebody stuck something in the back of one of our file cabinets.
		Well, actually, we started by looking through closets, looking through ceiling storage, looking through a whole variety of storage.
		So here we had what ultimately turned out to be things secreted in our file cabinets and this mysterious fax.
		And I guess at that particular juncture, I grew so concerned that I insisted that they come down in the morning and not in the afternoon the next day.
		Is that all I could get them to agree to?
		Well, out of the blue, two fellas show up the next morning.
		Both of them looking like they stepped out of a Humphrey Bogart.
		One of them, right down to the tattoos, the unbelievable physique, you know, the muscles on muscles and warts on warts, looking like a cross between Schwarzenegger and Popeye by the name of Ledestri,
		an agent of the OSI, and one of his partners, show up and instead of even making more than a cursory effort to look at what we were going to show them and to retrieve the facts, take me and a staff member and put us through a, what we did is we took them to an off-the-beaten path office, down the hall and the other floor, so that they could sit in some degree of security and talk with us.
		They put me through this, I'd say, third degree that covered every part of my life.
		I guess basically short of checking the length of my middle finger and whether I still had my tonsils, they asked me just about everything else.
		They knew about things about me that I had never shared with anyone.
		They knew about things that I thought so confidential that no one would ever know about them.
		And they questioned me about them.
		They questioned me about everything right back to I'd say, oh, I was about eight or nine years old.
		And they then made a very, very cursory effort of just looking in one of the offices as if they had already really didn't care what had happened.
		They gave us a receipt, a signed receipt for the facts, and expressed thanks in a kind of a, shall we say, patronizing manner for having endured whatever we endured to get this facts back to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No reference to the break-in.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		In fact, though we showed them, we volunteered information about it, I took them to where wires had been pulled off a wall at one point.
		They just made a very, very cursory effort to look.
		I got the distinct impression looking back at it in 2020 hindsight that it wasn't as if they didn't know what happened before they got there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, if your story is accurate, it is one of the most important stories that mankind has ever heard.
		I've got somebody who is a little more familiar with this story than I am, has been closely involved with you, and that I know you respect on the line with me.
		It's Linda Moulton-Howe, who reports for us, does a lot of scientific reporting, and I know has had several discussions with you.
		Linda?
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And hi, Jack Shulman.
unidentified		Hello, Linda.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I have been so provoked to follow the American Computer Company story since September when I did that series of reports with you, the first one, I think, to get your story on the media.
		And in listening to the discussion right now on the trans capacitor, I wanted to just footnote that I was there in September and I did get to see that broken glass in your doorway and where they were fixing the wall.
		And we reported that more freshly.
		It wasn't very long after that break-in that I did that interview with you.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in fact, I believe you and I had an opportunity to take a look at how bad the job was done by Vinnie and his wood contractors trying to put up that sort of silly secondary wood door with the metal frame and how it looked like it was just about to fall off.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And I think I said to you, you know, there are things that I would have liked to have kept here that I have to take out of here now because just about anybody can just knock this thing over with a feather.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and back then in September, the term trans-capacitor was not the issue.
		It was the transfer by the United States Army to Bell Labs, something that fell in the category of a transistor, an integrated circuit.
		And one of my questions right now, before I ask you some things about that, is in your interview with Newsbytes in December that was on the Internet, it quoted you as saying that,
		quote, in talking about the trans capacitor, try a poker chip-sized 100-gigabyte hard drive with no moving parts and a tiny battery to sustain internal memory for, say, 10 years, quote, unquote.
		In Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso's book, The Day After Roswell, he says, and I've actually talked with him about this when he held what he said and used the same phrase, poker chip size.
		He said there were thin two-inch around matte gray oyster cracker shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic but had tiny road maps of wires etched along the surface.
		Is this description and your physical description anywhere near the same?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I would say that that would be a very accurate representation of some of the material we're working from.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		So that they are flat, wafer-like, and they do have raised, etched, tiny roadmap, so to speak, along the surface?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That would be a layman's description of them.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That would be fairly accurate, yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Only observable under a microscope or with your eye?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, they would be blurry to the human eye.
		You would have to get close to them and you could begin to make out what would be apparently a mosaic-like array, but you would not be able to see the finest detail of them.
		You would have to look at that under a microscope.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that one of the, as you talked about earlier, one of the main differences between the transistor and the capacitor is the capacitor holds charges which can be measured by measuring voltage, and that one of the sentences in this interview says,
		quote, the transcapacitor stores multiple voltage states that can be reliably measured, so coupling the devices into arrays like transistor logic gates could make the logic of current solid-state devices seem like ancient cave wall writing.
		I wondered what measures so accurately this voltage at so many levels.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting because it's one of the details that we have deliberately omitted.
		And the reason we've omitted it, Linda, is because it has to do with the internal connectivity of the transcap, which provides enough access to the information in both time and in numerology,
		shall we say, that enables one to literally lift the information as to where in the range the number ends the trans capacitor is set.
		Almost like I think Tony on my staff described it best as being like the scales of the scales of justice moving up and down on either side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you two.
		Hold on right there.
		We'll be back after the bottom of the hour.
		It sounds like To reveal the method of measurement of these middle voltages, these varying voltages would reveal the way the trans capacitor operates.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Network, tonight, an on-course presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bid you all good morning.
unidentified		Skiss
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, you might compare the trans capacitor.
		You might set up the following analogy that if a transistor operates in a yes and a no, two states, the trans capacitor operates in all states in between the maybes, the gray areas.
		It makes decisions at levels that a transistor never even considered, and that is where the conversation left off.
		Manner of measuring those various voltages.
		Jack and Linda Moulton Howe, you're both back on the air.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Linda, I can complete the answer for you.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I actually have been holding my breath there all during that.
unidentified		By the way, speaking of what measures a voltage?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're using a conventional TTL accumulator with a quadrature architecture, what's called a quadrature signal analysis circuit.
		It's similar to a phase loop lock.
		Suffice to say, without going too elaborately into the technical details, we're able to cause an emission from each device, not unlike a radio transmission.
		You've got to understand that devices that operate at this speed are really operating at the speeds of radio wavelengths.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, in that Newsbytes interview, you were quoted as saying that the device uses a, quote, isotropic crystalline substrate capable of biestable resonance and quantum storage.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Now, the resonance that we're talking about are the resonant frequencies it's able to emit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you measure these at radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, all computers, of course, radiate like bandits, most of them.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
		However, we don't really use a lot of the types of radiation and emission art that these computers are capable of generating.
		We try to keep it right down into the electron paths that connect components together.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		When I read the Colonel's description that he physically took out of a file drawer in the Pentagon in General Arthur Trudeau's office, thin two-inch round, matte-gray oyster cracker-shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic but had tiny road maps of wires barely raised, etched along the surface.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Did you indicate that you actually have these physical devices?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't, dear.
		And pardon me for using the expression, dear, it's getting late here.
		The fact is we have drawings of very in-depth micrographic studies apparently of those gray matte circles.
		Now, I can't, Linda.
		Of course, you know me to be someone who will not say that those were absolutely, definitively the gray circles that Colonel Corso found in a Pentagon drawer.
		But if you want to look at a visualization of one, we put a visualization of one on our website.
		And I don't recall the it was the page that describes the transcapacitor imaged as a like a Pentium type chip carrier.
		And further on down the page is one of those, what you have described as an a round, two inch round flat gray plastic wafers, shall we call them, with what Colonel Corsa described as a roadmap of wiring, if you will.
		We call those deposition arrays or alliterations, if you will, of the circuitry on board such a wafer.
		If you go take a look at the website, you'll see something that is as close a visualization as we can give you based on the drawings that we close enough for interdimensional work.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Just so I understand clearly, Jack, you don't physically have from the consultant or from anybody else an actual physical trans capacitor?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, we don't have, we have a trans capacitor.
		What you're describing may not have been the trans capacitor that we built.
		We spent A fair amount of money trying to reconstruct a research evolution from the drawings, our own device, which we dubbed the transfer capacitor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you built this from drawings, you were not handed a physical object?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, that's correct.
		That's where one of our proof problems is.
		You know, we're engaging in an investigation, and one of the proof problems we have is we have drawings but no physical sample of the physical device that may have been in the possession of Colonel Corso at one point.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, what is the isotropic crystalline substrate that you're using?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I can't answer that, dear.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Is it that the material itself is key to being able to use resonance for measurement?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That would be accurate, yeah.
		I can't describe it in the type of terms that the audience would understand, but suffice to say, it's a form of, shall we call, semiconductive combination of mineral and chemical that based on the chemical formula that accompanied the drawings, we were able to recreate, but we didn't start off trying to build this highly dense two-inch device.
		We started off to build just one component, one 90 billionth or 100 billionth of this wafer.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And did I understand you to say that the consultant inherited this lab book or lab notebook?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting because that actually has been the conception some people have passed on to others, and you may have heard it that way.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		The fact is the consultant's friend, a widow of the lab shopkeeper, the widow of the lab shopkeeper had it from his estate, and she had, in fact, discussed with the consultant the possibility of it being fully evaluated initially because she felt it had tremendous, potentially tremendous financial value.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any understanding why such a highly sensitive lab notebook from a lab as highly classified and sensitive as Bell Labs would have been in 1947, that that lab notebook would ever have been with this scientist in a way that would have escaped being scooped up by the government?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, frankly, I believe that this is probably not the only edition of this lab notebook.
		I believe that this was one of several from the secret research facility that was engaging in this research.
		And I believe that the shopkeeper very deliberately, instead of destroying the materials, kept them for himself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, may I stop you long enough to ask you, on the cooperative side of what you might know about all of this, would you relate to the audience very briefly your experience with going to a Bell Labs going to Bell Labs with regard to the transistor itself, would you tell us that story quickly?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And Jack Shulman, you have not heard this.
		This was in October.
		I was a guest speaker over at Rutgers University, and I decided completely and totally, without any pre-planning, that I would go to Murray Hill Bell Labs.
		And I wanted to see what they had on display as the history of the transistor and the integrated circuit in the lobby, which I'd heard a great deal about.
		And I went in, and here was the big year, 1947, with a series of displays.
		The one front and center was labeled transistor, and I believe the words were the greatest revolution, or one of the greatest revolutions in the history of the world.
		And I moved to the case, expecting to see this possible extraterrestrial device hiding as a transistor.
		And there was a plain place in a dusty shelf.
		Something had freshly been removed from there.
		And the only thing in the case was a photograph of the triangular-shaped object, which has been variably described in reports that I've read from Physical Review articles as either a wedge or triangular-shaped piece of plastic, or in one article it said it was quartz.
		But nevertheless, this object in the photograph got my attention because it was immersed and surrounded in what looked like a cobble of wires, and it was the only very precise and machined part of the photograph.
		And I went and asked at the desk, I said, where is the 1947 transistor?
		And the person at the desk said, what do you mean?
		And I said, well, I was looking for it, and there's nothing on the shelf.
		Clearly, there's dust around a place where something was there, and there's a photograph.
		And the person hurried over, seemingly somewhat alarmed that this was not there.
		And she said, well, I will get somebody.
		And in a little while, a very tall man came in black garb and wearing a hat that had Wackenhut embroidered across the top of the baseball case cap.
		He was security, and he was very, he seemed to be, well, what is wrong here?
		And I said, well, I just simply wanted to see the transistor from 1947, and you can see yourself.
		There's dust on a shelf, and there's a place here where something was sitting that I think is probably what was in that photograph.
		But I'm curious why this 1947 exhibit of the transistor, the first transistor, would be gone.
		And the Wackenhut security person said, I don't know.
		I don't know why it is gone.
		I will do some checking.
		So I stayed in the lobby and I looked at this extraordinary evolution of Bell Lab's work up through integrated circuits and many other things.
		And about 20 minutes later, he came back saying he had done some checking.
		He had no answer for why the transistor was missing from its glass.
		But I thought at the time it was October.
		And between the Reports that I did on the radio, September 7th, Dreamland, September 9th, coast to coast, September 14th, Dreamland after the interview with you at the offices, that by October there had been a great deal of conversation about this being an alleged possible extraterrestrial source piece of technology.
		And I wondered if Bell Labs had decided to simply remove it for some reason.
		And that is this story.
		And it also leads, Jack, to some confusion that I've had about this, is that on January 6th, 1998, on your website, you had an article and it was entitled Stunning News of Hoax in 1947,
		unquote, in which you argued that the Bell Labs photograph of that triangular shaped object above the slab of germanium is not a 1947 transistor photo, but is a 1943 high-back voltage microwave rectifier diode, or triode prototype.
		What I wondered is, do you mean a vacuum tube rectifier or a solid-state rectifier?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reality of that particular device is it was vacuum tube based, but this particular prototype is a kind of what I might call a goog of work that might have been in progress in 1943 and somebody's idea of a bad joke.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, even John Bardeen and Walter Bretain, who shared that Nobel Prize for the discovery of the transistor in the integrated circuit, I was given a physical review letters to the editor that those two scientists wrote on June 25, 1948, about the same time that they applied for the patent to the U.S. Patent Office.
		And their letter in physical review was entitled, quote, the transistor, a semiconductor triode, unquote.
		And then they said, each point when connected separately with the base electrode has characteristics similar to those of the high back voltage rectifier, unquote, which are the words that you have on your website.
		And the point that those two scientists were trying to make, as I understand it, was that the transistor that they were trying to develop or that they were trying to patent has two contact points close together at the same time, which is at the base of the triangle where the triangle comes to a point.
		One point has forward flow of current and the other point has a reverse bias.
		But a rectifier has only one point contact and only one direction of current flow, and they were trying to make that very point.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what they were trying to do, if I had to amplify what they were saying, was they were trying to draw a bridge between the transistor and how rectifiers work, which in physics is not really so.
		It's not valid.
		We checked this very thoroughly and discovered that a rectifier is, as you suggested, a unidirectional flowing half-wave full conductor, whereas a transistor consists of three either NPN or PNP, negative or positive charge-carrying materials, which I think you and I had a brief discussion about back in the...
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right, and I've read a lot more since.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Which consists of a doping of normally a material like gallium or silicon with various...
		And by the very formula that you produce, each of these three parts, you produce various operating characteristics that relate very specifically to that charge barrier theory that I referred to, that is the center component blocking or allowing electrons to pass between the outer components.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But I think what I was trying to say is that even Bardeen and Bretagne were using exactly the phrase that you used on the website back in 1948 in this letter in which they were addressing that each point, if connected separately with the base electrode, has the characteristics similar to a high back voltage rectifier, and that what they were developing was different.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		They were in fact quoting Shockley, who had stated that he in fact discovered, quote unquote, the effect by looking at high back voltage rectifiers, presumably rectifier triodes.
		The problem is though, the rectifier triode was called also the closed spaced triode.
		Does that term sound familiar to you?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That was Dr. Jack Morton's invention in 1943.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And he's the man that you knew when you were growing up in high school and who was strangely murdered in the early 70s.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That's precisely correct.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And he was director of the integrated circuit department at Bell Labs.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Later on, and he also was the head, essentially, of the project within which the transistor was allegedly invented by Bell Labs.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And that's a very important thing.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And he's a footnote in that project, too, which is sort of dramatic in that his role was gradually distanced and at the time of his murder almost completely written out of that project's history.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's almost a huge story unto himself.
		And before we get off on that sidebar, what I would like to follow, because I have been very curious and I've been reading a lot trying to understand this issue of history and where science may have left off and extraterrestrial technology began.
		In your article, you created a color picture of what you call, quote, the real transistor test rig, unquote, without a ground plate housing.
		And it is a series of rectangular-shaped objects bolted together with what look like screws showing a negative, positive, negative configuration.
		And you compare your NPN real transistor to a chalkboard drawing photographed next to Bell Labs scientist William Shockley at Bell Labs about which you wrote on the website, quote, It has been suggested that the photo drawing on the blackboard appears to not only resemble the test rig, but also looks like an actual, quote, semiconductor micro deposition, unquote, as might be found on a modern-day integrated circuit, unquote.
		Further, your report suggests that Shockley's blackboard drawing could be, quote, an alien transistor, unquote.
		Well, when I took your drawing and I took the Shockley blackboard drawing to a physicist colleague of mine, he said immediately that the blackboard drawing next to Shockley is an energy level diagram of an NPN transistor.
		And that, in fact, I found in another Physical Review article that is July 1st, 1951 by W. Shockley, M. Sparks, and G.K. Thiel called PN Junction Transistors,
		the exact drawing is there labeled in 1951, the NPN structure and the energy level scheme, and it matches the NPN structure and its energy level scheme.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		See, the error of people's thinking on this is they don't realize that the energy level diagram is an NPN structure described in its shape with its energy component levels superimposed on its shape.
		It is not a Gantt chart, a PERT chart, an energy sinusoidal wave pattern, or any other such thing.
		That's where the error in people's thinking has been made on this particular subject.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But you wouldn't disagree that the drawing next to Shockley matches absolutely the NPN structure in the energy level scheme.
		And in fact, the one that matches is biased as an amplifier.
		That's what the drawing is, and that's what Shockley's pointing to.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		That's correct.
		In fact, it is not an oscillator.
		It is an amplification type device.
		But what's peculiar about it is he has utilized, superimposed on the device.
		You've got to understand this, but Bill Shockley, when he created that drawing, created new science and new math at the time that did not exist before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jack, I've got to stop both of you right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the top of the hour.
unidentified		Linda, Linda, Linda.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The clock doesn't let us stretch anything out.
		I'm sorry.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be right back from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
		Can't stay home without your love.
		Oh, baby, don't worry that we know.
		I can't exist, I'll surely miss your timbrel...
		music
		music
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Post to Post AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning from the high desert.
		Linda Moulton Howe and Jack Schulman, CEO of American Computer Company, are my guests.
		And we'll get right back to them.
		Linda Moulton I realize that it is getting late now for our guests, Jack Shulman, CEO of American Computer Company, and Linda Moulton Howe in Philadelphia as well.
		The discussion became awfully technical in the last half hour.
		It was of necessity, and pointed out, I think, that not all of the information on the American Computer Company website is necessarily completely accurate.
		Of course, that goes along with the internet generally.
		Now, I do want to ask Linda Moulton Howe one thing.
		In private conversations with Linda recently, Linda has indicated to me that whatever she might believe about this entire story, there are certain aspects of the story, people named, things known about, that could not possibly be known about from any casual source.
		Is that accurate, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would say that, and Jack Shulman and I have talked about this, that even though he himself has said that he has been confused about some of the details and the evolution of this story, that from independent sources,
		much longer before Colonel Corso came forward this past year with his book, that I had been told that our government has been spending a great deal of time and money since the 1940s trying to back engineer what was described as extraterrestrial technology.
		And what has been lacking from all of these background sources has been any indication of proof.
		And before we went to the break, what I was leading to is what seems to me the fundamental and most important question in some ways, both for Jack, for you, for me, for everybody listening, and that is, where does the science and the history in Bell Labs start or stop and the possibility of actually looking at something that was introduced from a non-human advanced intelligence begin?
		Well, I got the original U.S. patent on what is called the three-electrode circus element utilizing semiconductive materials.
		That was the transistor.
		It was issued on October 3, 1950.
		They filed June 17, 1948.
		When you look at the drawings with the U.S. patent, it has that same triangular-shaped configuration that Bardeen, Bretain, and Shockley describe as being important to having this very tiny gap at the bottom of the triangle with the gold foil on the side, creating this ability to have these two-directional currents.
		And because it has the triangular configuration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the same thing.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, I'm going to stop here in just a second and throw it to you because when I go to your January 6th website, you've got a quote and a drawing, and it says, from the shopkeeper's notebook, which I'm assuming you mean the Bell Lab alleged lab notebook,
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		in ACC's possession, I have created a color picture of the real transistor test rig without its ground plate housing for simplicity.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And we have created a transistor.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We have created a transistor test rig.
		One of the things that's bothering me about the market.
		Linda, one of the things that's bothering me about the path that you're pursuing at this point is that you're personalizing this effort.
		And ART also, I take exception to the suggestion that not everything on our website is accurate.
		I take that is actually not so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you seem to concede that there might be some things that were, as Linda suggested, not quite right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say anything of the sort.
		What I said was that when we were discussing this before the break, what I said was that Linda was incorrect in suggesting that the image on the chalkboard that Bill Shockley drew was an energy diagram alone because, in fact, I knew Bill Shockley, and I can tell you from talking to him that that was, in fact, not just a diagram of energy levels.
		And it is reflected in his language over and over again in what he has written.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It's described.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		May I finish?
		The patent that was filed by Bardeen and Bretain refers to the device depicted in the photograph, which if you look at the 1963 article in Scientific American, written by, I believe, originally authored by Walter Bretain, he describes it as that's not a transistor as you and I know it.
		That's his precise language.
		Well, the problem that we have here is you can file with the U.S. Patent Office a description of almost anything, and so long as it does not violate a previously filed patent, it does not have to work.
		It does not have to do anything.
		It could be filed strictly to control some aspect of it.
		It is nothing more than the granting of a license by the U.S. government for whatever parts that represent that patent that are combined together to give you control over it.
		That does not mean that you have, in fact, patented the transistor.
		You could be patenting something similar to the transistor, similar enough to prevent anyone else from being able to build a transistor until you had figured out how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're just talking about words here.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, in fact, in the patent office, that's true.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Jack, in fairness here, my issue is just trying to get clarity on what is a very complex subject.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Of course, it is a very complex.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, don't misunderstand me.
		I'm not criticizing you at all, Linda.
		You have done the best single job I have seen in all of the past year of confronting the issue with regard to what Bell Labs did.
		In fact, I must commend you because you went past what anyone else would have in fact found insurmountable, very particularly confronting the security desk at Bell about the missing prototype.
		Because you have, in fact, broken something that we in fact, you know, I said to you once up front, we're sitting on a lot of things we're afraid to share with people.
		One of the things I'm afraid to share with you is the fact that, in fact, I've suspected since 1970 and 1969 that the transistor did not really originate at Bell Labs, that in fact that that picture depicts something other than a transistor consisting of a piece of paperclip,
		the cut end of a pen, a glass cut in a triangle embedded by adhesive in a material, and two pieces of wire soldered to what in fact may very well have been bubble gum wrapper, or I should say, stick of gum wrapper, that sat on someone's desk in his study for a number of years, that had in fact sat on his desk for a number of years before the transistor project.
		I think they did an incredible job of covering up what they did.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well back to your drawing, do you think that an actual alien transistor would have screws in these rectangular blocks?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		You said they were not screws.
		What are you doing?
		Those are depictions of, in fact, what may very well have been surface clamping that was intended to keep the device from separating.
		You see, the problem is it's a flat drawing that we're dealing with.
		And what it is, in fact, is like a surface clamping that has a ridging on it to hold it.
		And it's been drawn in a particular way that our artist may have made it look like screws, but in fact, it was sort of clamping the objects in place, not screws coming together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's what Linda may have meant when she said some misunderstandings on the chart.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I understand with Linda.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I well understand why you're drawing the conclusions where we have faced every one of these issues 100 times in the last, oh, perhaps 100 times a month in the last six months.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but how would you reconcile such a radical difference between rectangular blocks and the actual filed patent, which has this triangular configuration?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		All that really did with regard to the patent was give them the ability to create a narrow and small pathway that, if you know how the material that they claimed that they were using was working, that would in fact operate like a triadic rectifier would if it was made of germanium.
		You have to understand, the days that germanium were added to transistors to give them rectifying capabilities In their emitters and so forth, have A long since passed, except in the high radio wave transistors.
		And this particular device, which I called it a Gugog before, was related to the combination of diodic rectifier material like germanium to vacuum tube technology.
		But again, not a semiconductor.
		And again, more, it is a high-back voltage diode, excuse me, or dryode diode, or triotic diode, because it's really a diode, but it acts like a triode.
		And the key was, this was a device that failed at the labs to provide anything of any value.
		This particular object became apparently a source of sore point, but it so closely resembled the way you would diagram how you might build a transistor at its most, say, the base where the three elements appear to come together, that using it as the basis for the drawing for the purposes of patenting had no, shall we call it, penalty to the labs.
		Well, so they were able to patent their description of the theory and this drawing diagram, and it looked very, very much to their competition, to the people who would take the patent and try to reproduce it, very much like it was the device that they were in fact ultimately building.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		answers why you saw only a picture in dust Linda well they don't let you take it someplace and I'd be curious to know if it's back it probably is but why was it taken out of that case and Jack if you actually have that lab notebook or the consultant does is there any reason why you can't actually photograph it and show the world actual photographs from this lab notebook in Huh?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We intend to.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We've already announced our intent to publish parts of the lab shopkeeper's notebook right on the Internet.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But when?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have an issue going on between us and the United States Air Force and AT ⁇ T and Lucid Technologies right at this particular moment.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And so I can't give you a clear date.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe the issue?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Suffice to say it's in the, shall we call, pre-legal, pre-litigation state on the commercial side and in the just about litigation state on the military side.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But the focus of the litigation is about which part?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, in this particular instance, it's about the entire notebook and our story on our website.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And so Bell Labs is claiming the notebook is their property?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I think that that would be a good assessment or interpretation, but at the same time, they're saying it's not really something that does anything or has any value.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But if you then photographed it and put the photographs out, what would be the repercussion?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Frankly, I don't know.
		But in order to have worked on it, bear in mind that we are not the owners per se of the notebook.
		We purchased to some degree the right to be able to become involved in the developmental activity so that we would in fact learn a lot about the technology in question.
		That was our, shall we call it, our agenda, if you will, was to learn as much as we possibly could because it might benefit us as a business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you have built a trans capacitor.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We have built a prototype.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, are you under the same restrictions with regard to release of physical data?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've pointed out that we do have a restriction, both legal and compact-wise, with its actual owners, the widow of the gentleman who in fact pack-ratted this particular object.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		But the trans capacitor, if we have any derivative legal repercussions regarding it, it's because in fact perhaps somebody might stake a claim saying that they in fact really own this and that we derived the material by in essence stealing it from Bell Ads.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Jack, what is the U.S. Air Force's stake in this?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		At this particular juncture, we are standing them off in a really, really harsh back-and-forth writing campaign between our legal department and their, well, we call it the Communications and Control Directorate and the Office of Information and Records Distribution.
		Between those two groups, we have to exhaust, Linda, every avenue available to us to, under the, I think it's called the October 1997 Freedom of Information Act and the related laws about suing the Air Force,
		in order to obtain full control over the derivative designs so that we can A, patent them before we give them away to the public, pardon me, B, find some way to give them and put them into product technology.
		We have to establish that we own the rights to the technology that's dependent in the drawings.
		We have to prove that Bell Labs will never make a claim of ownership.
		And C, we have to establish the fact that since the allegation has been made that these technologies came off of a device that fell to Earth that was in essence salvaged by the Department of the Army and ultimately the Air Force, that they will never make any claim regarding it because they in fact already divested their interest in it to, in essence, a third-party commercial organization who has since given it up for the purposes of any tangible financial value.
		And subsequently, we also have to pursue, in the course of that, establishing the basic facts of their original existence because it's either that or we invented the transcapacitor as part of a lengthy research effort, just like Bell Labs supposedly invented the transistor.
		You understand the problem?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, did you actually have some documentation in which the Air Force is supposed to have property claim on retrieved alien disks?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we have is Air Force, actually not Air Force, but Department of the Army markings on some of the documents.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm understanding was Army and Navy.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's why I'm puzzled by Air Force.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm using the term Air Force because today the Air Force is the party responsible for what at one time the Army and the War Department were responsible for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At one time it was the Army Air Force, actually.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Army Air Force was in fact a part of the Army until the fall of 1947.
		Right, exactly.
		In fact, Linda, you're pointing out something else.
		You're a very, very intuitive investigator.
		You're pointing out the fact that at some point there, it became critical for the Army to divest the Army Air Force into a separate entity.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And interestingly, and I think you and I have had this discussion in the past.
		I know you and I could probably argue this for the next 12 years, and we'd come up with all sorts of interesting facts.
		But the fact is, remember White Sands was the place where the V-10 and the V-2 were being analyzed by the Department of the Army and by the various sundry consultants, including Bell Labs and Bell Aerospace.
		Bell Aerospace was out of New England, and Bell Labs was sort of the parent company's research arm.
		And there was also advanced research into weapons-grade radar systems going on in the area, involving also Bell Labs and AT ⁇ T. And also some very, very advanced communications technology that ultimately today we see some of that technology having evolved into satellite communications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jack, I have a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Between the notebook, the transcapacitor technology, and the break-in and the facts you receive, do you make any connection at all?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		You know, not that I care to go public with at this moment.
		One of the reasons we're pursuing a case with the Office of Special Investigations, Communications and Information Directorate, is we are, in fact, extremely disturbed by reports that they filed that ultimately were given out as FOIAs to folks like Larry Bryant and Brian Parks and so forth,
		including the original facsimile transmission and some very intentionally, shall we call them, repressive and or defamatory comments, not just about me alone, but also about the American computer company, suggesting that this facsimile that we received is nothing of any significance.
		The public were just some little tiny, itty-bitty post-age stamp-sized business, and strangely reflecting the kind of criticism received from a very small segment of the so-called ETI investigation community, a group of individuals who have taken it upon themselves over the course of the last 90 days to literally invade our website,
		posting nasty and what we believe to be slanderous and or defamatory comments similar in nature to what were made by the two Office of Special Investigations investigators who came up.
		And here we were doing our civil duty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hope to agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The campaign against you has been intense.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been horrific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And very hard to understand.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		But the fact is, as all of us have thick skins from having worked in the computer industry for the last 25 years, if you think that that's tough, you should deal with IBM in a contract negotiation.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, back to September, I know that when I interviewed you on the 14th, we talked very specifically about the March 13th flyover of Arizona and that the consultant was saying that your facts was actually addressing the March 13th flyover because,
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		remembering that interview, allegedly that there was an object that one of our DPS satellites photographed that was considered to be not terrestrial, not from Earth, that had selectively taken out some component or components of that satellite, and that our government was, I think, to use your terms, extremely concerned about whether it was an aggressive action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on that note, hold it, you two.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Jack Schulman and Linda Molden Howe are my guests.
		We're discussing the trans capacitor, the actual invention of the transistor itself, or discovery of the transistor.
		And now we'll find out how all of this might in any way relate to what showed up over Phoenix on March 13th.
		Intrigued?
		I suspect so.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February
		11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
		You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere Inside, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And once again, for those of you lost in the technical details, this trans capacitor is a device that would to give you a good parallel, I suppose, take the abacus and make a 333 megahertz computer, modern computer, look just like the thing with beads.
		it would move civilization forward uh...
		faster than uh...
		we move forward in any technological leap we've taken so far uh...
		We're going to make this the last segment for our two guests who are probably way past their bedtime.
		Linda, you were mentioning March 13th and Phoenix.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and when I had talked with you, Jack, in September, the story was that the consultant, when seeing or hearing about the facts, said that it was information about this flyby by a non-human vehicle that had selectively somehow impaired that satellite, and that there was great consternation on the part of the United States military.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Can you discuss that now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to add something, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a separate source telling me that we experienced a rise in DEF CON level at that same time.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		In fact, that's true, Art.
		And Linda, your perception is true.
		However, interestingly, we're dealing with more than just one satellite, Linda.
		We're dealing with a defensive satellite in this particular instance that may have been, shall we say, being repositioned to try to respond to the perceived threat of what you've described as a flyby.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And that it took place not just in the, you said it was March 13th, I think, seemed to write it up.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 1997.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but also again within the time period of the receipt of the facts, which pertained very specifically to reassignment of the satellite back to its former duties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the date of the facts?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It was the end of July.
		It was the July.
		Again, my mind is where it is.
		It's a little bit muddy right now.
		I believe it's July 31st.
		Is there a 31st day in July, folks?
		Yeah.
		I believe it was July 31st.
		And the date on it was July 31st.
		So the perception that the consultant had was that, in fact, it was being placed on a specific duty from approximately March 13th to 14th, in essence, protecting something from what I think Linda, you and others have suggested was a UFO flyby for a period of time.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		You discovered your story to me on tape from the consultant, meaning that the consultant had told you upon looking at the facts or hearing about the facts that this So it was your consultant's testimony.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
		And I think what we have discovered, pardon me for saying so, we've discovered additional facts since that time about exactly what SkyStation is.
		And it apparently is an airborne-based defensive and assault weapon.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the things I'm curious is whether you've had any discussion with your consultant about the nature of the triangular craft that was reported by a number of people that I've interviewed personally between the 7.30 to 8.30 time period between Tucson and Phoenix on that night.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And there were even some refined estimates on the size from two real estate people who could actually measure the width of the thing or the length of the thing because they had a real estate box and they said it was 1.8 miles long, a triangle in the sky, barely moving.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that that's in fact most of the, and from different sources, Linda, I've heard essentially the same story and describing essentially the same vehicle.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		What I believe may have happened is that some of the misinformation that subsequently arose between that time period described it as a football field-sized oval.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that may have been another way of doing it.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And then also tried to somehow correlate it to SkyStation, which is not that big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which, by the way, any offensive space-based platform would be a treaty buster, and anybody getting in the way of that would be in trouble.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's for sure.
		And in fact, interestingly or oddly, we've had a rather substantial controversy over its identity, what in fact it does just in the last couple of days, because rumors have been flying that this thing was retasked in July to move it to a parking orbit near the Gulf, in fact, for the purposes of both observation and or potentially assault.
		And that would time itself fairly precisely to it being needed for an assignment that might have related to our present controversial footing with the country of Iraq.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Saddam Hussein.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed, I have.
		I've got a fax here from the Electrical Engineering Department at Stanford.
		It says, most of the questions asked thus far focus on the past, how we got where we are now.
		Though this is interesting, as an electrical engineer, I'm far more interested in the implications for the future.
		Please ask Jack the following questions.
		One, are the trans-capacitor materials similar or the same as those used in present ICs?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, some of them are, but not the ones that mean specifically how they semiconduct precisely.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		They aren't Bernoulli-type effect devices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are they?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		They are, in fact, quantum devices, which should make some sense to the gentleman from Stanford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the manufacturing processes required to build the trans capacitors similar or the same as used in Prasma-Cs?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not the same.
		They're similar.
		What I've had to do is actually get together some beer money, shall we say, and buy what in essence is a small semiconductor foundry for the purposes.
		A semiconductor foundry, for those who don't know what it is, consists of materials for combining chemicals like fluorine and water and carbon-based substances and silicon-based structures to build something.
		We've had to, in fact, create a way to build this that is quite different than a classical integrated circuit in terms of its material.
		Its crystallization process is different.
		The materials that are, the chemicals that are making it are different, but some of them are the same.
		It's a big leap, but it's not entirely different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
		He finishes the reason these questions are so important is that it is very expensive and time-consuming to develop revolutionary IC manufacturing materials and processes.
		For sure.
		The fewer the manufacturing hurdles there are, the sooner we can all benefit from this new technology.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that makes sense then.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does, in fact, because we're estimating right now it's going to take us two years just to get to the point from about say January 5th to the point where we're ready to start showing the device to peers for peer review.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And then about another 18 months it'll take just to define the way to manufacture it with sufficient volume.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you are going to submit it then for a peer review before you put it into practical application?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't make any sense not to because even if we manufactured it and could do, you know, it could pull lightning out of my hat art.
		People would not, I mean the computer industry wouldn't use it for anything until they were convinced that it had the seal of approval on it.
		And we also need to get, for instance, things like the National Standards Committee to look at the National Institute of Standards.
		We need to get the American National Standards Institute to look at it, the IEEE to look at it, just about everybody and anybody who means anything before anybody will even begin to try to devise circuitry to use it for anything.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, has the Air Force or Lucent Technologies directly stated to you that trans capacitor is ours and you can't develop it?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I can't really answer that for reasons pertaining to legal confidentiality, but I can tell you that our discourse between American Computer Company and Lucent has been to such a degree negative that one of the letters that went between us and them, we feel, had some bearing on the dismissal of the chairman of Lucent Technologies on the 20th of January.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And what was the nature of your dispute with him at that point?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		At this particular juncture, just in the last day or so, it's become impossible for me to answer that question for reasons pertaining to counsel or advice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can imagine you're in a horrid situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a tough situation.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not horrid, but it's tough.
		It's tough.
		You know, the key is the benefits far outweigh the pain in this situation.
		It has a certain calming effect on all of us to know at least maybe we're going to do some good here.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you talk about a quantum memory device, Jack, are you using the term quantum because, as you mentioned, it may have a 10 to the 23 power varying in voltages that can be measured?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Can you explain why you use that term quantum field?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the term quantum field would be familiar to Stanford.
		They would understand that, and they would presume certain materials, and they would presume when we talk about a crystalline structure that's isotropic, that has bistable resonant capabilities, and actually multistable resonant capabilities, it would begin to form a picture in their mind.
		They would begin to get the drift without us giving away the details that might spoil any value for our having done this.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And resonance is the key.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, resonance relates very specifically to oscillatory states, and that in fact bears on its quantum nature, but not derives from its quantum nature.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It's a quantum inversion field, is the term we've been using.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, right now, what do you think is going to be the timeline on this litigation with the military and the recent?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		We're waiting on responses from the military that have not been forthcoming that in any other situation, had I not received responses by now, I would have been stunned.
		I mean, we're talking about repeated inquiries from the 10th to the 28th of January that we're sitting here just basically holding our empty bag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at some point, Jack, a lack of response constitutes permission.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		In essence, it constitutes permission for us to litigate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It does not necessarily constitute permission for us to proceed because we still know certain things that I haven't revealed to you folks that we have to get a hold of from the Air Force, very succinctly defining why certain inscriptions are on some of the materials we're deriving from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, you're not going to make it through this process without breaking open the whole thing.
unidentified		Of course.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		So you're going to have to blow it wide open.
		We're not only going to blow it wide open, but I'm beginning, you know, I get a little bit feisty every once in a while, and I'm beginning to think maybe we should start taking a look at some of the things that might take us either too long or not be as valuable and just start releasing them.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jack, do you have any way of conclusively proving right now that you are dealing with non-human advanced technology?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		No, other than our surmise and all.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		We have a preponderance of allegation and evidence combined, which makes a very, very strong case.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing in these notebooks that ever says this is extraterrestrial?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It says of objects of unknown origin and objects which are of interest to aerospace and or, I'm trying to quote this from my memory, which is a little tired right now, aerospace and or scientific observers of astronomical phenomena.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Phenomena, excuse me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to, this will break the entire UFO thing all the way open from 1947.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		It's got to do something, Art.
		It's got to do something.
		And it's also going to have to force, we feel that at some point it's going to force a far bigger source of information than we to have to come clean.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		There is something that is very definitively going on here.
		And again, we don't know if, and I've got a caveat, folks, and I hate to backpedal and caveat because it looks like I'm trying to, in essence, somehow protect myself.
		But the fact is, honestly, we could also be being fed one of the most elaborately conceived misinformation hoaxes in history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You acknowledge that.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I'm acknowledging it, and I've acknowledged it from day one.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I just don't think so at this point.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Has the consultant himself indicated any personal knowledge about the intent of one or more non-human intelligences interacting with the planet?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		That's a complex question because I believe that if in fact this involves extraterrestrial species, there is apparently not an unreasonable unfamiliarity of any kind between the military and them.
		That is, in essence, there's some familiarity there that we in fact do not have privy to because in fact, no matter what happens, when it happens, it's just basically going to be slid under a trapdoor and disappeared.
		And they're predominantly in the order of recorded radar, exhibitable, exhibitable, recordable radar phenomenon and observations.
		Nothing tangible like this.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Who's trapdoor, Jeff?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		You're asking me, right?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Who's trapdoor?
unidentified		Right.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure it's that guy who is what used to be the supply sergeant for the Manhattan Project.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		But there has been implications made here that there's an organization that continues to operate within the United States that's part of the military that has no accountability and is responsible for this whole area of investigation.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		The Majestic 12 Group.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I get it.
		I don't know the name from the perspective I've learned of it.
		It's called E2.
		And we had it for a while under surveillance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arose by any other name, a government behind a government.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, what was strange about it, it was sitting in a building that would otherwise be described as national security level, top secret clearance, looking for all intents and purposes to the outside world like it was some kind of an automobile manufacturer, but it was not an automobile manufacturer.
		And one day as we were watching it, believing ourselves to be very clever, we noticed somebody coming up to the front of the building and placing a for-sale sign on the building.
		Striking us as a little odd, and also that we had, in fact, I had a detective agency working with a gentleman who was very close to this subject for quite a while, and this actually spooked him, and he was from a former Navy.
		And they basically, what they did is they went up and they took a look inside the building, and this building, which they had been staking out during the night to see who came in and who came out, whose cars, whose license plates, et cetera, et cetera, Was empty, and they hadn't seen anyone leave.
		There was no furniture there that had been there the day before.
		There were no materials, no people, and a for-sale sign.
		And it was very strange to them because they couldn't account for why they had just spent, what in essence was to them, several days surveilling a building that had people going in and out, was very busy, had furniture, had mail and everything, that while they were watching it during the night, apparently imploded and disappeared, leaving just the building with nobody in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don, Jack, what steps have you taken to ensure your physical safety and the safety of the information that you have?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the materials are under very, very close care.
		Unfortunately or unfortunately, Wackenhut Detective Services are the security guards for the Cali Park that we're in.
		But the guards that work there are elderly gentlemen in their 60s and 70s.
		And maybe perhaps that accounts for why it was perhaps that the break-in might have occurred fairly easily or regularly and why someone was busy cleaning it up the next day.
		I don't know.
		But bottom line, we've duplicated the materials.
		We have, in fact, completed the process of protecting them, laminating them.
		And we've duplicated them, and we've got the moral equivalent of the same thing that you might appoint a special master in court, someone who is a very, very trusted former public servant who's an attorney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Does this include the photonitron and the liquid memory that you've talked about on your website?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're actually calling it the Petron because people are taken aback by the term photonitron.
		They have a little hard time.
		The Petron is extremely fascinating, Linda, because in essence, from it you could learn that it's possible in theory to transmit light and cause it to appear in space like light reflecting off a solid object.
		Now, again, it may be something which is going to take us quite a while to figure out how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Secondly, is that like IBM's teleportation experiments?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		IBM's teleportation experiments?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		They did one this fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They actually moved light.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		Well, you know something?
		If it in fact referred to the transliteration of attributional components of light, that is correct.
		It would in fact be the same.
		I think it would be described in the notebook.
		Now, where did this take place?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		IBM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		IBM.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, I didn't hear about that one.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was a news story.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I had, in fact, heard that there was someone in Switzerland who had done something similar once, like about six months or a year ago.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, is this photo, Nitron and the liquid memory, is this also written down in this notebook?
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Well, not the way that we've described it to you.
		We've tried to put it together in a form that the public can understand.
		For instance, the liquid memory, they didn't know what it was.
		We think we do.
		It has a ceramic metal composite, what looks like an electrolytic type of fluid.
		We've been talking with the Dow Chemical Corporation preliminarily about offering to them, in exchange for helping us determine exactly what is this fluid, some rights in its evolution, because we don't think that we have the right mix for us as a company.
		We don't have the right mix of personnel in order to evaluate it.
		We are starting the discussion.
		We intend to offer them non-disclosure agreements because we think that they probably, of all people, might know a lot about what this device is, because I'm led to believe they might have seen it before.
		Just like I might have, you know.
unidentified		Go ahead, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry to interrupt, but we're out of time here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, any final impressions for this evening?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am provoked by this whole question that I think is going to be with us for a long time.
		How do we ever prove where human science evolution left off and this non-human technology may have begun?
		How do we prove it if the government and technology in companies like Bell Labs wanted to obscure that fact?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how did the principles survive the process?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that they do, and that's why I'm worried about Jack.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And can we know the truth before we get out of this particular century?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That is my hope.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with you, Linda.
		And by the way, I'd like to thank both of you because it's a tough subject.
		It's difficult.
		At our core, all of us, I think, everybody, particularly the two people I'm listening to on the phone, want to get to the truth at the bottom of this thing because of, I think, a moral commitment, both of you, that's to something a little bit higher than just what this type of radio programming is about, per se.
unidentified		You bet.
unidentified		Yeah, we really want to know the truth.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		And I think that goes for those of us at American Computer Company as well.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		I know my staff is rather sorely stressed.
unidentified		And of course, in fact, my assistant is going to be a little bit to spend my life.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		My blessing would be that it happened in Ruben because of the stress on those people.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely even imagine.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		The worst part is that the mother enhancement was as well.
unidentified		Others ultra people could imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jack, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, thank you.
jack schulman ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night to both of you.
		That's it from Coast Coast and Well Beyond.
		That's all there is tonight.
		David John Oates, tomorrow night.
		Maha Desert.

▲