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Feb. 11, 1998 - Art Bell

02:45:08

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Roswell Alien Technology - Jack Schulman

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere In Time.
	The night featuring Costa Costa AM from February 11th, 1998.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
	Happy to do all good evening or good morning wherever you may be across all these many, many time zones.
	There are a lot of them.
	From the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains where it's early evening.
	All the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands.
	Good morning in St.
	Thomas.
	South into South America.
	North all the way to the Poland.
	Worldwide!
	On the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, and what a night I have planned for you tonight.
	First hour, open lines, lots to talk about.
	Second hour, Jack Schulman from the American Computer Corporation, ACC, which claims to be back-engineering actual alien technology, which has resulted in the development of the trans-capacitor.
	A device that will improve disk storage and do all kinds of things.
	He claims, Judge Homan claims, that this all has been back-engineered from Roswell crash wreckage.
	And it is, oh, it's just an incredible, incredible story.
	It's a major U.S.
	computer company claiming they've got alien technology now, back-engineering it now.
	So we'll talk about that.
	Now, In the Monica Lewinsky case, Monica Lewinsky is not going to testify later today, depending on your time zone or tomorrow.
	Her lawyer has made moves that will keep her away from the grand jury, but not her mother.
	Her mother went before the grand jury again Wednesday, coming out ashen-colored, so shaken by the grilling that a nurse was summoned to the grand jury room to attend to her.
	Her lawyer, Billy Martin, said no mother.
	Should be forced to testify against her own child.
	He said Ms.
	Lewis must return because she was unable to finish her testimony.
	This is getting to the ridiculous stage.
	And I have some really, really, really interesting news for you about this.
	I told you last night that one of my affiliates Had some major national news they were going to break today, and they sure did.
	My Las Vegas affiliate, HotTalk1051, is offering Monica Lewinsky a cool five million dollars for an exclusive interview.
	A sub-headline station makes formal offer for details surrounding intern.
	Here it is, the actual release.
	A Las Vegas radio station has made a formal, legitimate offer to Monica Lewinsky of five million dollars for an exclusive, truthful interview regarding her relationship with President Bill Clinton.
	Hot Talk 105.1 FM, KVBC FM actually, sent a letter to Lewinsky and her lawyer, William Ginsberg, outlining the offer and its conditions on Wednesday.
	The offer gives Lewinsky until March 12th to submit to the interview at the radio station.
	In return, Hot Talk 105.1 FM will pay Lewinsky $5 million.
	The offer Was officially made on the Jim and Julie Show Wednesday afternoon.
	Quote, our goal is the truth and we are willing to pay to achieve our goal, said Dane Wilt, General Manager of Hot Talk 1051.
	Continuing, this is a legitimate offer.
	We have the money and we're willing to pay it to Monica Lewinsky if she agrees to this interview.
	This is for real.
	Lewinsky, of course, the former White House intern, who's been embroiled in a scandal with President Clinton, and an alleged affair that may have taken place in the White House.
	Unlike other offers to Lewinsky, which have come with the stipulation of possibly posing nude, for publication, Wilt said, Hot Talk 105 FM has no interest in Lewinsky shedding her clothes.
	All we're interested in uncovering, said Wilt, is the truth.
	Now, among the interview conditions, this must be Lewinsky's first interview, other than grand jury testimony.
	The questions must be answered truthfully under penalty of perjury, and Lewinsky may not grant any additional interviews within 30 days of the Hot Talk 105.1 FM interview.
	for that again hotdog one oh five one fm interview that
	so uh...
	i wonder what you think about that And I've been doing some thinking about it.
	This is a big corporation.
	Our new affiliate in Las Vegas is, you know, it's a big corporation.
	They've got the five million dollars.
	As a matter of fact, they have actually already issued a five million dollar check.
	Now I'm here to tell you that I think that Monica Lewinsky could probably not do better.
	Wherever you are right now, Monica, this would be the deal.
	I'm an author.
	I've written books.
	I can tell you they don't yield millions of dollars.
	So whatever book she might write wouldn't even come close to this in terms of royalties that she would receive.
	Five million dollars?
	That's a lot of damn money!
	I think that I would go for that, and I am fairly sure That there is no gag order in the Lewinsky case that would preclude her doing this.
	So, Monica, if you're out there, there it is!
	Five million dollars!
	And I've got kind of an inside track to the radio station, and I'll tell you right now.
	The ownership of the station and the corporation, they... You would have wanted, definitely, to be a fly on the wall during the conversations that must have gone on for this one.
	I ought to interview Dane Wilde is what I ought to do.
	I can imagine.
	Well, boss, guess what we're doing today?
	We're offering five million dollars.
	You're going to need to write to say what?
	So I think you ought to take them up on it.
	Five million dollars is what I call fiddle you money, which means it's enough money to say to heck with you gone fishing.
	Goodbye.
	That's it.
	And there are not even conditions here that require her to suggest that President's born perjury, ask anybody to lie or anything else.
	Just the story.
	Five million cold, hard dollars.
	Go Monica, go!
	You guys think she'll go for it?
	Should she go for it?
	You could live pretty well on five million dollars for the rest of your life, huh?
	Meanwhile, prosecutors investigating the president's relationship with Monica have subpoenaed members of the Secret Service, setting up a new confrontation with the Independent Council over the Clinton administration's desire to restrict the testimony of close aides and the Secret Service.
	Government officials confirmed subpoenas had been issued to the Secret Service, but it remained unclear whether the Independent Counsel star was seeking testimony of agents currently or formally assigned to Clinton's protective detail.
	There is a retired agent who claims that he escorted Monica Lewinsky into the Oval Office for some late night meetings.
	Others are saying a uniformed Secret Service agent would never have been detailed to do this, but an expert on the White House takes issue with that and suggests that indeed it would have happened, could have happened, likely did happen.
	Anyway, I think that's hot stuff for Hot Talk FM 105-1.
	FM 105 won five million dollars. Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt disappointed with
	Attorney General Reno's decision to request a special prosecutor to investigate his role
	in an Indian casino controversy.
	We want to get mixed up here about who, which special prosecutor are we talking about.
	There have been so many.
	Has to do with a group of Wisconsin Indians who feel they were cheated Because somebody else got in there with a little bit of juice.
	Now Iraq.
	It does now appear that we are going to go to war.
	Are we wagging the dog or are we really going to war?
	I tend to think we're wagging the dog.
	Recent movie in which a president covers up an affair in the White House?
	with a Firefly Girl, that's what they called it, Wag the Dog a Firefly Girl, by starting a war.
	Now, the other side of this is that breaking news at the top of the hour, and this should put a big chill down your spine, indicated that the Russians supplied in 1995 Biological cookin's, doin's, scrapin's, biological stuff to Iraq that could have been used against us and may be used against us if we attack Iraq now!
	If I had to guess, I would say we're probably within about a week of initiating project Desert Thunder, which is going to I guess use a lot of smart bombs, smart airplanes.
	I'm not sure how smart the whole idea is though, how about you?
	I just don't know.
	And I'm not sure, I'm not really qualified at this point to sit here and say that we're wagging the dog, that this is a diversionary tactic.
	Uh, from the President's difficulties, because it was coming long before.
	The evidence is, they do have a bunch of stuff that we ought to blow to kingdom come.
	That's the one side of me, the other side... Plus, of course, Iraq is being defiant, and...
	Not allowing the UN inspectors to go where they need to go, and that alone is enough reason to continue the war.
	Actually, we're not going back to war.
	We are continuing.
	We have always been in a state of war with Iraq.
	Albeit not official, but a state of war.
	In Japan, a mixture of snow rain, along with strong winds, heavy fog, has postponed the weather tormented men's downhill for the third time in five days an unusual problem too much snow a growing accumulation of geological evidence is now making it ever clear
	That in the past, the climate has undergone drastic changes in temperature and rainfall patterns in the space of a human lifetime.
	In fact, in a decade or even less.
	In uncovering one of the latest pieces of evidence of abrupt climate change, American scientists led by Dr. Jeffrey Sevenhouse at the University of Rhode Island examined climate clues taken from corings of ancient ice in Greenland.
	The team determined that when the world began its final ascent out of the last ice age, that would have been more than 11,000 years ago, temperatures in Greenland initially spiked upward by about between 9 and 18 degrees Fahrenheit, at least a third and maybe more of the total recovery to today's warmth.
	In at most, brace yourself, three decades and probably less than a single decade.
	They also found that the impact of the sudden warming had been felt at least throughout the northern hemisphere.
	So what they're saying here is that our weather could change and it could do it in 10 years!
	10 years!
	And now this, the Clinton administration has quietly changed US nuclear weapons policy To permit, for the first time, targeting Iraq with tactical atomic warheads, according to the U.S., according to U.S.
	officials.
	I'm picking this from, by the way, out of Newsday.
	The top secret directive, signed by President Clinton in November, is part of the administration's contingency plan to consider using atomic bombs on Iraq.
	Now you think about that a little bit.
	we are getting ready to use, possibly use, atomic weapons in Iraq.
	Now, in a moment, open lines.
	Thank you very much.
	Plenty to talk- plenty to talk about.
	Now there is just one more thing.
	I'm I have a sheet here full of headlines, newspaper headlines, that somebody collected, all recent days, in which, over the last, oh let us say, month, animals have been attacking human beings.
	The first story coming from Anchorage, Alaska, not a big surprise, hiker killed by grizzly bear.
	Hiker surprised a bear and the bear, of course, killed him.
	And then from Atlantic City, New Jersey, pit bulls come from nowhere to attack children in schoolyard.
	Well, pit bulls attack.
	Another one, bear kills man in Alaska.
	A lot of that.
	Grizzly kills woman Haines Junction Yukon.
	How about elephant sneaks up on hunter and kills him?
	An experienced Zimbabwean safari hunter was gored to death by an elephant that apparently sneaked up on him.
	And then finally from France, a panic-stricken deer charged and killed a hunter who bled to death from an antler wound that severed his aorta.
	Now, I just note these items for you.
	I'm not saying the day of the animals has arrived.
	That cats are going to be leaping into the faces of unsuspecting owners.
	Dogs snapping at the crotches of their dismayed owners.
	However, there is something going on out there and I'm not sure it's good.
	Just sort of making a mental note of all this, and of course, the news of the whales continues.
	Newfoundland, harp seals in Newfoundland, leaving the sea in large numbers, heading off into the forests of all things.
	The people in Newfoundland say they have never in all their lives seen anything like it.
	They have never seen animals, uh, mammals behaving in the manner that they are?
	And this, coupled with the stories that I just gave you, indicates that something is really going profoundly wrong out there.
	It's our environment.
	It's magnetic changes.
	It's a damn full moon.
	I really... The moon is full, by the way.
	Have you seen it?
	My, my, what a night.
	And it portends some interesting things immediately ahead.
	The balance of the hour will be in open lines.
	Monica, five million dollars for a radio interview.
	I'm going to have to have the manager of that radio station on there as a guest.
	Ask him about this.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	Music.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Well, there's a lot going on.
	It really is a... It's a great time to be doing talk radio and to be involved in what's going on in the world.
	It really is one of the greatest times I've ever known to be alive.
	One of the best and one of the worst, kind of like my life.
	On our international line, somewhere out there, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Barefoot Skinny in Belize, Central America.
	In Belize, Central America.
	Down there, probably lying in the hammock with the little drinks with the umbrellas.
	How did you know?
	Because I know why people go to Belize.
	Well, that's true, but I live here and I still have a hammock hanging in my living room and I'm actually drinking a little rum and coke right now.
	Perfect.
	I love your Monica thing.
	The five million dollars?
	I would jump on that in a heartbeat and if she was any kind of lady at all, any kind, she would give the guy who taught her whatever it was she did a cool mill.
	Easily.
	A commission.
	Wouldn't that be fair?
	Yeah, a commission.
	I guess so.
	I would take the $5 million and run.
	Look, $5 million, as you ought to know, since you... What are you doing in Belize, by the way?
	Do you have a million bucks?
	Are you down there retired, gone to Michigan?
	Well, you know about these trust things.
	You can't go to public with them.
	But no, I'm an entertainer down here on a little island called Ambergris Peak.
	And a lot of my friends up there in the States know me as Barefoot Skinny, and they're waiting for a CD release and whatnot.
	But no, I'm just doing my thing down here, man.
	And I've got a family, and I'm very happy to be living somewhere where there's not all this pollution and all this crime and everything else.
	It's a really nice life.
	Well, for $5 million, you may soon have a new neighbor there in Central America.
	I might.
	And like I said, if she could give a cool meal to the guy who taught her how to do it, I'm not saying it's me.
	Yeah, right.
	But I think that would be fair for the guy who taught her how to get all this public attraction.
	So, also, you found out about these scientists in the States.
	I don't know if you were caught up on that.
	BBC World Service tonight had mentioned that two scientists in the United States were testing on an epileptic woman.
	And found the laughter nerve.
	And I was wondering if Bob Crane could get a hold of that.
	Maybe he could figure out some kind of device on how to give us all a way to laugh all this madness off.
	The laugh device.
	I love it, my friend.
	Thank you.
	That's from Belize.
	No, I really hadn't heard that.
	Scientists have actually discovered the place that causes you to laugh.
	I always thought it was the ribs.
	Other selected locations on the human body.
	But I guess, like everything else, it's in the brain, no doubt.
	Alright, well, anybody wanting to get to us internationally, as that Belize caller just did, can do so by calling their friendly AT&T operator, and then telling her you want to call the USA toll-free, please.
	Thank you very much.
	and the number is 800-893-0909.
	9...0...
	I hope that's right.
	Barely read my writing anymore.
	That's it.
	800-893-0903, and we will pick up the tab from literally anywhere in the world.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, the luckiest woman in New Jersey.
	How you doing?
	How are you?
	I'm okay.
	I've got to tell you what happened last night.
	What happened?
	Well, I could have told you last night, but I was too nervous.
	And I'm never nervous talking to you.
	Never.
	Alright.
	Last night was weird after I told you about my daughter.
	Yes.
	Okay?
	I went to the tape to see how I sounded.
	Yes.
	And everything broke.
	Everything.
	My old Rotel.
	It's 20 years old.
	My receiver.
	The tape recorder.
	Nothing.
	I couldn't get it to work until this morning.
	That much?
	I wire everything in the house so I know how it works.
	And, uh, nothing.
	Now it's, now you're, now you're cooking, now everything's on.
	Yeah, you know, I'm the same way.
	I've got my entire house wired, and I'm the only one who knows where all the wires are.
	It's, uh... I program everything.
	The clock, the whole, the whole place, you know?
	And, uh, I have two rabbits.
	Two older six-year-old rabbits.
	You have rabbits?
	They're trained to go in a litter box and they follow me around like two dogs.
	Do they really?
	You can't even eat anything without them jumping on your lap.
	You're kidding!
	They are that domestic?
	Yes.
	What kind of rabbits are these?
	One is a Rex and one is a Dutch Shorthair.
	A T-Rex?
	Yes, sure.
	With the teeth.
	One looks like a police car.
	It's black and white.
	And the other one is just like a white rabbit.
	We call her the alien because she's got the eyes.
	She's pure white.
	When you put her ears back, she has like makeup on her eyes.
	It's black.
	Can you take a regular rabbit that would appear in your yard?
	We've got them out here, big jackrabbits in the desert.
	And can you domesticate those?
	I never tried, but if you took anything as a baby, it's really easy to do that.
	But you couldn't domesticate it after it's grown up.
	All right.
	If you took it as a baby, yeah.
	As it is, all I do is throw rocks at them anyway.
	I'm telling you.
	Now, I don't understand about Monica.
	Why hasn't Monica just come out and said, look, I was wired by a girlfriend.
	I told her some things that anybody would tell anybody's girlfriend.
	Yeah.
	I told the truth on the deposition.
	It doesn't really matter, people, what I said to this girlfriend.
	Too damn bad, and that's it.
	Why can't she just get off on doing this?
	I'm confused about this.
	Well, I am also confused about it, and here's what I say, that she should take this $5 million and run.
	I really mean it.
	$5 million.
	There is nowhere, there is nowhere that Monica is going to come up with $5 million, even the It seems to me the TV shows, the larger magazines, they're not going to offer that kind of... $5,000,000!
	Because her story may be nothing more than, yeah, sure, I had some sex with the press.
	I did, and I think she has said that in certain venues anyway.
	No suborning perjury, none of the rest of it, and $5,000,000 and she's out of there.
	Boy, it sure makes sense to me, and wherever you are, Monica, or your attorney, I'd be considering that one very thoroughly tonight.
	As a matter of fact, I talked to Jim of the Jim and Julie Show earlier and he said the check is already cut and is with a middle party.
	So it is a very serious, uh, serious as a heart attack offer.
	Sounds of a rocket launching Used to the Rockies? You're on the air?
	Good morning.
	Morning, Art.
	This is Gary out of St.
	Louis.
	Hello, Gary.
	How you doing tonight, sir?
	Okay.
	I was going to tell you, I finally got to finish your book, The Quickening.
	Good.
	And I got you a new fan.
	One of my cousins, I found out she's a very good fan of Gordon Michael Scallion.
	Oh, yes.
	And I explained about your program and about Dreamland, and I told her you need to listen to this.
	And she told me she's going to listen to it, hopefully this weekend.
	She's one of these people that's retired.
	Monica, she needs to sit there and tell them, show me the money.
	When they show her the money, do the interview and leave.
	They've got the money.
	This is not an issue.
	I mean, I know for sure this is one of my affiliates.
	I know.
	The money is sitting there.
	The check is ready.
	The check is good.
	It's already cut.
	A third party's got it.
	Uh, all she has to do is come and do the interview.
	That's it.
	Hey, Beth, you know, I mean, hey, if you gave me five million dollars, I'd let all out of the closet.
	Out of my closet, I'm just, hey.
	Oh, uh, you were talking about the flu epidemic that's been going around.
	We're glad that you and, uh, Ramona are doing better from it.
	Oh, well, thank you.
	They had a, uh, article in a local St.
	Louis paper.
	They said that it's down from only 500 some-odd cases to 300 some-odd cases.
	Yup.
	Um, it's marching across the country like a bad dream.
	This flu, this year, has been very bad.
	I tend to side with those people I've had on.
	And every one of them is saying, look out, here comes disease.
	And shortly, disease that they're not going to be able to cure.
	I believe it.
	I absolutely believe it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	It is, and I can barely hear you wherever you are.
	Okay, I'm in La Grande, Oregon.
	Okay, you're going to have to yell into that phone.
	Okay.
	Go ahead.
	I am in La Grande, Oregon.
	Right.
	And I just want to say that I love your show, and I agree with you about Monica.
	I think she should definitely take the money and run.
	And I just want to leave with Just to say, one, say hi to my brother, Springfield, Oregon.
	Alright, what's his name?
	Joe Edward.
	Alright, well, hi there to you, from Oregon to Oregon, I guess.
	Like, running run.
	I mean, this is a real offer, and the way I read the Lewinsky situation, she's not prevented from doing it.
	It would set her for the rest of her life.
	She could then choose to cooperate with Starr, or simply testify in front of the grand jury.
	And if the story is that she had sex with the President, the President doesn't get thrown from office for that, unless there's suborning to perjury and the rest of that, which there apparently is not, and that was the hitch in getting her immunity, so, oh boy, I'd grab the five mil.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, this is Jeff from uh, Pennston, Alabama again.
	Yes sir.
	I just want to talk about the Iraqi situation here.
	Uh, I can't help but wonder if some of Saddam's palaces might not be uh, too close to some of the oil pipelines.
	Because if I wanted to smuggle some types of warheads around,
	you do understand that in some of these oil pipelines they have these things called pigs.
	What better way to move things around than to put warheads inside these pigs?
	You could put them underground.
	Satellites couldn't pick them up.
	You could slip around all under these pipelines.
	And at the terminus you could put them, disguise them just as regular acetylene tanks.
	You could ship them all over the place and put them on ships.
	Let the inspectors come in.
	Uh, look at everything today, everything's fine, all right?
	Now that the so-called war is over, they ship them over here to us, and next time Saddam gets around and we come over there, he's already got the weapons in place here.
	Yeah, well, I'll tell you, we've already decided we're going to go to war with Iraq.
	The most interesting news of the night is that we have quietly changed our nuclear weapons policy to include the targeting of Iraq.
	Oh, with the tactical nuclear weapons.
	They may replace some of those warheads that are smart with some fuel-air explosives or something like that.
	Yeah, but, sir, you're missing the point.
	The President has signed an order which changes our nuclear policy, allowing the targeting of Iraq.
	Forget fuel-air explosives.
	They're talking about nuclear devices.
	We are targeting nuclear devices at Iraq now.
	Again, that comes from Newsday.
	I mean, you think a little bit about that.
	Nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
	Think about the story that ran just prior to the top of the hour about Russia having given biological weapons, materials, and makings To Iraq, or selling them, in 1995.
	You'd better think about all of this a little bit.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	Good evening, Mr. Bell.
	This is Norm from Campbell, California.
	I'm a first time caller.
	Hi, Norm.
	Hi.
	I've been trying to reach you for months.
	Several months ago, I had my very, very first upfront, personal, in-my-face UFO sighting.
	Well, that'll do it.
	I've been interested in UFOs, but I've never before seen anything that I could classify as a UFO.
	Excuse me if I'm a little excited.
	I finally got through to you.
	What did you see?
	Okay, that's what I wanted to ask you if you've ever seen anything with characteristics like this craft.
	It was circular, about 25 feet in diameter and approximately 8 to 10 feet high.
	Now, to get those measurements, it must have been really in your face.
	It was less than a quarter of a mile and about 500 feet in the air.
	What did it do?
	Okay, it was tumbling.
	It was hovering there.
	Just hovering, but it was tumbling while it was hovering.
	Like you take a quarter and you toss it in the air.
	I understand, tumbling.
	Thank you.
	Sure.
	Absolutely, totally silent.
	It was tumbling.
	Oh, now see, that would have just scared the fire out of me.
	I just stood and watched it.
	It was very strange.
	The weirdest part about it that got to me, it looked like an Oreo cookie.
	Forget the pun.
	That wasn't supposed to be a pun.
	That's what it resembled.
	The upper and lower halves were bigger than the middle portion, the middle segment.
	Right.
	Slightly.
	And you could see all aspects of it, because I watched it tumble.
	And it was there for several minutes, just tumbling.
	Well, alright, thank you for the call and the citing report.
	I have no idea what to say to you about that.
	You're one of millions.
	We generally don't do just citing reports here, because frankly, as I said yesterday, and I'm going to say it again today, we are way past the threshold of Whether they are here, they are here.
	Something is here.
	It's clear.
	More Americans than not have seen something.
	They call all night long.
	That threshold is now passed.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	My name's Tim and I'm calling from Central Point.
	Yes, sir.
	I was just wondering if you had heard anything else about the UN taking over nuclear bombs?
	Absolutely yes.
	I've heard that there is a proposal on the table in front of the President to remove the nuclear warheads and to consider putting them under the auspices of the UN.
	Now, if the Russians did the same thing, it might be a safer world.
	If the Chinese did it, Pakistan, India, the Israelis, Great Britain, France, and on and on, then it would be a safer world.
	But if you think all of that is going to happen, then I have a great bridge for you in Manhattan.
	Good price.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, uh, this is Frenchy up in Massachusetts.
	Yes, sir.
	How are ya?
	Fine.
	Okay.
	Um, good, glad to hear that.
	With the atomic bombs that you guys have been talking about, I heard ex-president Jimmy Carter on the radio today and he threw his two cents in and said that he didn't think it would be a good idea to send nukes over there to blast out those Supposed stockpiles of anthrax.
	Well, whether or not he considers it a good idea, our president just authorized it.
	You know why?
	You know why not?
	Because he thinks they're going to use biologicals against us, and if they do, then I too would be in favor of nukes.
	Well, maybe that too, but if a nuke goes off over there and it doesn't burn up the gyms right away, it might send them all into the air.
	And then killed two or three hundred thousand people.
	Well, alright, but you see, the fireball produced by a nuclear device would in effect cauterize, I think, even the most severe biological installation.
	Using lesser weapons runs a greater risk of such neutralization.
	But even at that, I don't think they would be used unless biologicals were actually deployed against us, or chemicals.
	And I'm sorry to say, I consider that fairly likely.
	So the president signing this order is pretty significant.
	Are you ready?
	I suspect we'll be at war a week from Friday at the latest.
	Now, coming up after the top of the hour is American computer company president Jack Shulman.
	Jack Shulman runs a large IBM-type company that sells computers.
	And he has for some time now been claiming that he has alien technology that he's been back engineering that are going to result in some remarkable computer products and in the immediate future at that.
	So we're going to ask him about all of this coming up shortly.
	I'm Art Bell and from the high desert which will answer I hope.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	Anything is possible tonight, anything at all.
	Who knows?
	But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
	welcome to the program those of you who joined at this hour anything is possible
	tonight anything at all who knows but then again that's kind of the way I like
	it now Jack Shulman a Jack who was recently advanced to
	chairman of ACC American Computer Company is a computer scientist who as a
	contractor systems engineer or as an employee developing new technology and providing
	advanced system design and implementation has worked for IBM AT&T Bell Labs data
	general Wang Labs Apollo computer
	The U.S.
	Government Prudential Corporation, R.J.
	Nabisco, the Bell Systems Citicorp ITT, Singer, Lockheed, Grumman, ABC, NBC, RCA.
	My God, this man has been around!
	As head of the Apollo Office of the Future Project for IBM Kodak and the Institute of Imaging Science, Jack Shulman successfully translated his own innovation, the use of Windows on a computer display.
	Which he first invented in 1973 and 4 onto IBM, AT&T, and Apollo, the Sun Terminal, and other computers in the late 70s and early 80s.
	Now, why is he here tonight?
	Well, let me read to you from a CNI report just clearing the Internet wires.
	A few people in recent memory have kicked up as big a ruckus on the internet as Jack Shulman, president of New Jersey-based American Computer Company.
	CNI News has previously reported on Shulman's claims, including the possibility that Bell Lab scientists invented the transistor in 1947 after studying alien artifacts from Roswell, or some other UFO crash, An American computer's announcement of a potentially revolutionary invention, the trans-capacitor, trans-cap, or T-cap, which not only could make the transistor and integrated circuit seem primitive by comparison, but which also may have been derived from study of alien technology as recorded in an old laboratory notebook in Shulman's possession.
	Of all the claims made by Shulman, perhaps none is more intriguing than the transcapacitor.
	Shulman has described this alleged device in enough detail to attract the serious attention of electronics experts.
	Shulman says it already exists and will soon be manufactured into consumer products, like computer memory, with vastly larger capacity than current hard drives.
	If Shulman is right, His new device will seem, in hindsight, to have appeared as if by magic, with almost magical properties, just like the transistor did 50 years ago.
	Needless to say, electronics experts are trying to understand how Shuman's device might work, since in his public disclosures he has thus far withheld some rather important details of its structure As, by the way, anybody would expect in such circumstance.
	Those trying to evaluate his claims are required to speculate quite a bit.
	Nonetheless, a lot can be learned from what Shulman has said.
	The question is, does his device make any sense?
	Can it possibly be real?
	And that is, I think, a rather objective story from CNI News.
	Jack Shulman, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art.
	How do you receive that CNI Internet report?
	Does that seem fair to you?
	Well, actually, I think it was most eloquently spoken by yourself, Art.
	I'd like to compliment you, because you and I have not really had too much time to chat in the past.
	No, we've not.
	And I've heard your show, and actually I'm quite flattered that CNI News bothered to carry any information at all about this.
	Well, Jack, if what you claim to have is, in fact, what you have, then it represents a giant leap for mankind.
	Well, it's interesting, Art, because this all came about as a result not of our making claims to the public so much.
	I think you may have some information about this already, because we've tried to relate it to a lot of folks.
	But we've been, for the last, I'd say, six or seven months or so, investigating the allegations It was made to us that the transistor and other technologies that have been developed by commercial research establishments since 1947 came off of, allegedly, a craft of some kind that crashed in the plains of St.
	Augustine, outside of Roswell, New Mexico, near the Max Bezier Ranch.
	We were very, very puzzled when about, oh, I'd say 13 or so months ago, I was asked to remain anonymous, an individual of extreme influence and power and repute, whom we've referred to euphemistically as the consultant, a person with military communications and other backgrounds.
	It made allegations that were very serious to me that I, from somebody whom I knew and respected for the better part of my life, Found extremely skeptical.
	That is, I didn't believe them.
	Is the consultant an employee of yours or is he truly in that position?
	Is he a sometimes paid consultant to your company or just an acquaintance?
	Well, the better way to describe it is that he and I were working on a completely unrelated to American Computer Company project Which American Computer Company was, in fact, partly funding.
	The project was, in fact, an effective evaluation as to whether or not policies and tariffs in place in the telephone industry were having an adverse effect on the ability of people to demonstrably use their computers to access the internet, demonstrably Avail themselves of technology at a lower price and so forth.
	So you were dabbling actually in the politics of... I'd actually call it more like a legal and historical assessment.
	Okay.
	We were looking at it from the perspective of 1976 forward.
	All right.
	Does this person in any way have any connection to Colonel Corso or what Colonel Corso did?
	It's interesting because we had not heard of Colonel Corso until several months Into the investigation at American Computer.
	We are not, or were not at the time, very knowledgeable about the whole, shall we call it, investigative aspect of the ufology and ETI industry.
	It actually came as a surprise to learn that there was actually someone else who was making similar kinds of allegations, albeit from a different time period looking backwards at 1947 in time, and also From the context of having had personal involvement with the alleged transmission of materials directly to companies like AT&T and GE, supposedly.
	Alright, well this consultant at some point, then, actually brought to you physical stuff.
	Yeah, that's where it gets a little bit strange, actually, because I told him, frankly, as much as I respected his position, that I didn't believe that any of this was so, that it couldn't be true, because, you know, I had grown up in the shadow of Bell Laboratories.
	I was quite close to the head of Bell Labs Semiconductor Division and Bell Labs itself.
	I went to a private high school where my best friend in high school and college was the son of the man who was essentially the de facto head of the transistor project and before that a project to produce something called a vacuum triode, a closed spaced vacuum triode that made Broadcast radio and broadcast television on a nationwide basis is a possibility.
	And I was actually literally dumbfounded by the suggestion.
	Can you tell us anything about the consultant's connections?
	In other words, from where this material came, where he got the information, does he give any of that to you?
	Well, initially he explained it to me that he had had a lot of contact with the He was the chairperson of Bell Labs during the time period, heads of various projects, and subsequently he had consulted to them in a kind of advisory capacity as they prepared for the breakup of the Bell System.
	And he indicated that he'd been taken really into some of the innermost circles of this huge, actually incredibly huge, Bell System that existed prior to its deregulation and breakup at the outset of the 80s.
	And he, in that decade before, he had several contacts with them that, in fact, included, he indicated, evaluation of technology for which, in private conversations that he had with certain key executives, he at least stated that they knew that it, in fact, had not come from any form of earthly engineering or research.
	The original transistor?
	Well, not just the original transistor, but A successive series of technological evolutionary developments that had been directed within the lab's environment by the study of extra-worldly properties.
	Alright.
	Why would the consultant have brought the transcapacitor technology to you instead of Bell Labs or one of their subsidiaries.
	In other words, you're a pretty good sized company, Jack.
	No question about that, but you're not Bell Labs.
	Correct.
	Well, actually, I guess we aren't the size of Bell Labs.
	However, we have some unique properties that Bell Labs may not have.
	One of which is the ability to, not necessarily from the, particularly from the scientific research perspective, but from the Shall we say intuitive perspective?
	Right.
	The ability to divorce ourselves from the politics and from the the ministerial marketing representations that make a corporation what it appears to be to the public, and having much of the same scientific and research background and contacts, albeit not on a scale with a Bell Labs, obviously a huge well-respected research organization, I guess he felt that he trusted That our treatment of it would be A, truthful, and B, thorough.
	And that we would do everything in our power to evaluate, investigate, if the allegations that had been made to him, in turn, and his observations and evaluations and assessments which he recanted to us, if in fact they were true, if these things actually came off some kind of crashed or captured UFO.
	He would have had to have imagined that coming from you, though, such an announcement would be Well, that would be a fair assessment in some quarters.
	However, I think, frankly, these allegations, at this particular juncture, without the final assessment as to whether they are, in fact, 100% accurate or not, Whether we announce them to the public that these have been claims that were made to us or investigate them or whether Bell Labs did, we felt that they would in fact, no matter who announced them, they would be treated with a certain degree of incredulity.
	In fact, a substantial degree of incredulity.
	Well, they have been.
	Of course.
	When did you actually receive the device known as the transcapacitor?
	Well, it wasn't given to us as a device.
	What happened is, After a period of time during which I had very bluntly stated to the consultant that I was disinterested in pursuing any course of investigation.
	In other words, cough up something physical or go away.
	Something that would in fact entice me into believing that this was anything more than just hearsay.
	Of course.
	He came back to us with a very succinct sampling of materials that were from an outside source whom he described as A genuine and very, very careful pack rat.
	I think you know what I mean by a pack rat.
	One of those people who accumulates just about anything and everything around them and keeps them in his home or her home.
	I'm one of them, so I know.
	I've heard that by reputation, I argue.
	A way of pulling things out of your hat that nobody remembers ever having existed.
	I have a closet here.
	When you open it, it could fall on somebody and kill them.
	Well, I hope not.
	In any event... So the pack rat?
	The pack rat had This aggregation of different things that he had kept from his career providing services to government and or other projects involving Bell Labs.
	He was something called a shopkeeper.
	Okay.
	Somebody who maintained the plant, as it was called.
	They have unusual terminology in the land of the true voice, if you know what I mean.
	One of the more unique terminologies is to call something a plant And when you go there and you're expecting to see very large dynamos and things that go, you know, what you in fact encounter are all these very innocuous looking, very large offices with huge, long shelves filled with books and materials and tables with strange looking electronic devices.
	He was responsible for the setup and breakdown of those kinds of labs.
	It was interesting phenomena in the time period we discovered when we started to investigate what the consultant came to us.
	They apparently had a very unique method for operating some of the labs at the Bell Labs environment there in Murray Hill and South, which was they wouldn't tell you if you were fired.
	They would simply send a shopkeeper down and he would take the notebook, as it was called, the aggregation of materials representing your ongoing research, load it onto a rolling cart and would disappear with it.
	No instructions, no directions.
	Just an invitation to attend a meeting the next Monday or Tuesday, at which time you would appear, there would be two or three individuals, and you would be given a new project.
	You would never return to the office or lab where you were, and you would now be assigned to a new project.
	No pat on the back for any work performed, no pink slip, nothing.
	You were just basically fired off that project.
	Well apparently, this particular book or notebook, which really It's more than just a notebook.
	It's sort of like a notebook in the analogy of the entire set of shop manuals for all of General Motors cars, if you know what I mean.
	A long collection that literally would have fit into one or two sofas.
	The notebook documenting all of this hardware?
	The notebook documenting not just the trans-cap, but a whole series of breakdown, evaluation, and analysis of things that were given to Bell Labs.
	To evaluate.
	Any idea of who authored it?
	Well, actually, portions of it have people's names, like D. Llewellyn comes up quite frequently.
	They do appear to be a mixture of not just research people in the Bell Labs context, but they also appear to be people from some military research apparatus.
	And possibly even people from other companies who are coming in as visiting consultative scientists.
	As a regular businessman with a regular IBM computer-type company, you had to have been utterly blown away by all of this.
	I remember the first tentative websites that you had up about this, which sort of tentatively asked people questions about what they thought about Roswell.
	It was in fact Exactly.
	It's a precise characterization.
	We were very tentative because, frankly, we were timidly touching our toes in the water on a subject matter that ordinarily we would have thought of as being out there, I guess is the term. So was it kind of a plea on
	your part to say, look, is the whole Roswell thing real? Is there really something
	to this, knowing all the time that you had more that you were wondering about, and
	you just sort of wanted to verify the whole story? I think we started to look at it as a satirical
	and possibly slightly historical, perhaps even to some degree we tried to make it
	look a little humorous.
	There was quite a bit of satire on the early websites.
	We really didn't, I mean there still is a little bit, but the point was we didn't know how the public would react to this.
	We found out, but we had no idea, but we took it upon ourselves sort of courageously in a way.
	To at least try to kick the tires on the subject matter, if you will.
	All right, kick the tires is what we'll do when we come back.
	We're going to break here at the bottom of the hour.
	Jack Schulman from the American Computer Company is my guest.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Don't touch that dial.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	There's only half of what mine is. It's all clear to me now.
	My heart is on fire. My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
	My love is alive. My love is alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Coast to Coast AM, February 11, 1998.
	I'll try to keep it together.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	Once again, here I am.
	We're going to kick the tires on the transcapacitor in a moment.
	Back now to Jack Shulman of the American Computer Company.
	Which possesses something called the trans-capacitor, back-engineered from alien technology, ostensibly from a crash near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947.
	Jack, what exactly... I understand what a transistor is.
	I'm a little bit into electronics here.
	The yes-no gates, I have a basic concept of what it is.
	What is a trans-capacitor?
	It's actually quite a very surprising series of concepts rolled into a device.
	The way the transistor works, as I think many people know, is by having three components layered together.
	The middle component can cause power to pass between the outer two by varying a voltage to it.
	Really, that's all it does.
	It acts like an on-off switch, or it acts like an amplifier.
	We were, in fact, stunned to find amongst the drawings a described device that had propensities for gathering charge and being able to modify that charge in a way that was readable by electronic circuitry that was approximately the same size as a transistor, give or take a few microns, and had a few more ways of power entering and leaving it than a transistor.
	Using a slightly different, what appeared to the researchers at the time in the late 40s, mix of mineral, chemical, you know, paper, scissors, rock.
	Sure.
	Ultimately, which by very subtle variations of current caused it to change the electropolarity of charges within it such that its energy levels could be read to be at different gradients in a range that ranged In a number field, if you were to break it down into a number from 1 to, say, 10 to the 23rd power parts, that would be 10 with 23rd zero strung after it.
	In other words, a single component could store a number that large.
	Alright, so then could we draw this parallel that if a transistor says yes and no, A trans-capacitor has gradients of it.
	It doesn't say a complete yes or a complete no.
	It will give you gradients of that, allowing for decision-making.
	Well, it's interesting because it does work analogistically.
	We looked at it.
	It works in a way not too dissimilar from the way we think the rods and cones of an eyeball work, of the human eye work, by storing Gradients of light, although in this particular case, it's not storing light, it's dealing with predominantly electromagnetic memory.
	Alright then, could we slap this analogy on it, that if a transistor is black and white, this has every shade in between?
	Yeah, I think that's a good one, a very very good analogy, because if you were to take a look at it, if the old style television camera could only record a black or a white image, the human eyeball could in fact store Or actually examine and analyze and store a memory of color images.
	That does make sense.
	And what's fascinating about it is it does it very, very fast.
	At speeds that were at first to us unthinkable until we realized it's really just making subtle changes in the way it stores the electrons within its matrix.
	Right.
	So it doesn't require a lot of energy.
	It doesn't require a lot of time.
	It's so surprisingly innovative that we're not entirely certain, frankly, why this was not, in fact, shall we say, exploited by the researchers who defined functionally what they thought it did at the time.
	Other than that they may not, at the time, have had the sophistication enough.
	They may not have been ready.
	That's what I'm trying to say.
	They may not have realized How this thing could interface with other, what we think of today, as common components, like the transistor, the resistor, the capacitor, and so forth.
	Alright, so the public might understand.
	I think we've given them that part, at least, to understand.
	Now, what would the practical application of a trans-capacitor be?
	And I can only imagine you've begun to explore practical application, but how could you use it?
	Well, what's really attracted us to its usage in what we call common memory in a computer is that without the sort of extra componentry that a transistor requires, like a resistor, possibly in a capacitor, it can store where a transistor, for instance, can store a value of zero or one, or in the case of some that have been developed by Bell or Sandia or Sandia National Laboratories or IBM, Recently IBM worked on some copper-based circuits.
	They developed a transistor that could store 7 or 10 or a value from 0 through 16, perhaps.
	By comparison, the gradients of this device, operating analogously to the human eye looking at color, one of the rods and cones of the eye, it could store a number that was as large as 10 with with 23 zeros after in fact larger in binary terms we call
	the size of what it can store somewhere in the neighborhood of about 512 transistors or
	even potentially more in one device so one little component so take today's disk
	drive or today's a read-only memory in a computer or give me some an analogy
	Yep.
	I think the working analogy we're working with that we've explained at this particular juncture would be take a look at the common everyday ordinary mouse that we use to access a computer, the one that we use to move that little I-beam or the little arrow around on a computer terminal screen or on a typical personal computer and imagine something that size storing hundreds of buildings of information Um, 90 billion characters of information.
	Good Lord.
	Billion characters of information.
	Not million, billion with a B. Uh, well, we're imagining a mouse as a storage device.
	In a way, but I didn't mean to suggest that it was a mouse.
	You mean size?
	Size-wise.
	Approximate size.
	We've tried to say the same size as a, as a, as a disk drive in a personal computer.
	Right.
	But people don't know what that means.
	They think that that's the big white box next to their computer.
	So we're saying something that is approximately the size of a man's wallet, perhaps a little bit thicker.
	Woodstore, typically now, if you get a good, if you get a high-end computer, you might get a 4 or a 5.
	Or a 7 gigabyte.
	Gigabyte, yeah, you might get something in that range.
	What would the transcapacitor offer in a similar size?
	If we were to make one that was fully as dense as possible in that size, we'd be talking about something in the neighborhood of about 2 to 4 terabytes.
	Oh my god.
	That's an extra three digits, if you will, an extra Large sum.
	A huge amount of information.
	Information that a personal computer sized one could store all the information we presently have.
	In fact, we've estimated that you could take the entire World Wide Web, you know, all those World Wide Web websites that everybody wants to see out there.
	Yes.
	Like yours, Art.
	Which is linked to yours, by the way.
	Yours is what?
	ArtBell.com?
	That's right.
	And ours, of course, is ACCPC.com.
	You could take the entire web and put it into something the size of a small desk.
	And because of its speed, you could, if you had one of these advanced terahertz communications systems that they're producing supposedly at Lucent Bell Labs today, you could run that terahertz communications wire from one to another one in California, if you were in New York, And transmit the entire thing from New York, that would be the entire World Wide Web's content of information, all the way to California in only a matter of minutes.
	What about speed?
	Today I think we're coming up, IBM is brushing 333 megahertz commercially right now.
	What would the transcapacitor do for processor speed, if anything?
	We have actually measured individual components in a speed lately.
	Of something like 6.6 billion bits of information per second.
	6.6 billion?
	How does that translate to a megahertz clock speed?
	Well, that for the 333 million megahertz, as it were, million, compares to 6.6 billion as, I guess, what, 20 times the speed of a Pentium 2333?
	It has that capability, however, you know, we're running into an area now where we're missing a few other components that might be necessary to keep up with it to get a PC to run at that speed.
	Yeah, including no software that would run.
	Oh, well, we're talking about a whole world of different software.
	Now, supposedly, if we stop and imagine for a moment that kind of speed and that kind of storage, don't we begin to approach the possibility of sentience?
	You mean intelligence, just because of the speed?
	Speed and storage?
	It's comparable to human memory capacity.
	Precisely.
	That, I think, is very accurate.
	But frankly, I'm surprised no one had in fact suggested to me that analogy in the last, I'd say, two months.
	We had suggested that this thing operates not unlike a neural connective device.
	Are you familiar with neural networks at all?
	I am, yes.
	Well, a neural network, for the public's sake, is nothing more than a An array of switches that turn on or off depending upon what a program recognizes as, say, a situation, and later on can then be used to make the same kind of a decision that one might make given the same type of situation.
	That's the analogy that's used.
	It's a decision-making matrix, if you will.
	There are thousands of different types of so-called neural networks, but frankly, up until now, they've been rather small.
	As we looked further or deeper into the description of this device, we realized at some point that this transcapacitor was used in arrays so large, not just because it could store information, but we discovered that some of the elements of communicating with a transcapacitor were designed to crosstalk between matrices of transcapacitors.
	Initially, we didn't build Our prototypical board to try to develop this thing that way, but we gradually tried to construct a means by which you would use this communication capability between transcapacitors.
	And then one day it all just came clear to us that the reason why there are extra leads on this device for cross communication between its peers in a huge array is because it appears as if it was used in some kind of a All right, I want to read you something very quickly and see if it has relevance.
	I just got this.
	It's entitled, Scientists Grow Brain Cells on a Microchip.
	Brain cells have been grown on a microchip to create a simple brain to study how the real thing works and how easy it's going to be to connect computers to the human nervous system.
	The work reported yesterday to the New Orleans Conference is part of an effort to merge the world's two dominant forms of information processing, the neurons in your brain, is using to read this sentence in electronics.
	In the wake of pioneering work conducted in Germany, the University of California at San Diego told the meeting that they had developed a neural A device for growing rat neurons in a silicon chip that could one day help restore vision, reconnect nerves, or control an artificial limb.
	So, in other words, a connection between not human, but rat brain neurons and a chip, actual neurons grown on a chip.
	Fascinating.
	With great implications to what you're talking about, the trans-capacitor, which is an obvious, more of a sophisticated interface for this kind of work.
	Well, I think that that's extremely interesting because I get the distinct impression from the documents that I've looked at that this neuro-connectionist type of machine that was built from trans-capacitors had a biological interface on it.
	It was apparently intended to augment the capabilities of a typical, of a sentient species.
	Look, I understand that your business, American Computer Company, was broken into.
	Now, when did that occur, and as a result of, what do you think, why did they break into your business, Jack?
	Well, I'll tell you, that was not a very pleasant experience, Art.
	It was at the tail end of July, about a week after we posted the sort of tentative article you talked about.
	Right.
	A little over a week, a couple days past a week.
	And I would say about mid to late that week, we received a very, very strange facsimile transmission in our emergency tech support department at American Computer.
	It was something that came off some kind of a computing system.
	Well, I shouldn't say some kind, because that would suggest I don't know what computing system.
	It came off of what looked like one of our embedded computing systems.
	Right.
	Something that could be used for ground development or airborne development of a flight control system or communications control system.
	And it had apparently, either by mistake or by intent, sent us a transmission describing some kind of an orbital space platform that's known By the code name Sky Station.
	Okay.
	And this platform, which we have since learned is some kind of a weapons-based platform.
	We don't know entirely all of the details.
	We have consultants who work for us on professional services, who've worked at SPAR, Raytheon, or General Dynamics, where subsystems for this thing were built.
	Facsimile was transferred to us indicating that the device was in the process of either failure or being taken offline for the purposes of retasking.
	This space-based weapon system?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Now, we didn't at the time know that it was a space-based weapon system.
	We just recognized the form of the transmission and grew alarmed because normally the type of transmission that was sent to us, which was a type of specialized error message, Would be sent out in an emergency situation.
	Like, for instance, if something was being shot down, if it had a collision, or if it was being destabilized, interfered with, natural disaster, something.
	So we grew a little bit alarmed because we figured this is something that obviously was in the hands of the military, sending us a transmission to our fax machine, perhaps erroneously, but probably due to the fact that we put emergency diagnostic procedures in our computer systems, which have tables of telephone numbers to call.
	Okay.
	And we received this transmission and when I look at it, my staff look at it, we do a kind of what you might call a collective double-take.
	And here it is only, you know, a matter of days since this article was published on our website.
	And we figure out how are we going to tell whoever owns this that we've just received this emergency error message, this emergency we're shutting down message from this Sky Station.
	So, intriguingly, I get on the phone and I start making phone calls.
	I start by calling local military bases.
	Then I try to reach someone at the Pentagon.
	The Pentagon, it turns out, at 543 in the evening and 630 in the evening, Everybody's gone home, apparently.
	I really actually didn't know they closed the Pentagon, to be frank with you.
	But actually, I guess in these days of downsizing and budget reductions, they closed the Pentagon to the public.
	In any event, we ultimately gave, almost gave up, and then gave a call to the Central Intelligence Agency, to their duty office.
	They work 24 hours.
	Well, I gather.
	They're covering all time zones.
	And got a very friendly voice on the line and explained in detail the situation.
	Now, I don't know if they use voice monitors to try to tell whether or not you're telling the truth or what, but this guy must have decided that I was telling the truth or he recognized my name or something.
	They had a dossier on me.
	I have no idea.
	He directed me where to call and who the asset belonged to.
	So I contacted Langley Air Force Base.
	Yes.
	Which, of course, It's probably, in my recent memory, the most harrowing phone conversation I think I ever had.
	I reached Sgt.
	James and I got one of the more skeptical individuals I've ever spoken to on the phone and tried to explain to him why I, a member of the public, am calling him about a military transmission to my computer company's emergency tech support fax machine.
	He's never heard of me.
	He's never heard of the company.
	This call is in the evening hours and it sounds like Someone who is either pulling some kind of a stunt or someone who is trying to figure out some secret military information.
	Maybe somebody whom he should send out someone to have arrested.
	I don't know.
	So we spend about a half an hour on the phone and I'm now driving along in my car with my car phone talking to this guy and he's telling me after a while, okay, he'll put me through to somebody.
	I get through to somebody and I start, I get the first three words of the facts out of my mouth and he interrupts me.
	He tells me I should pull over by the side of the road.
	He tells me I should take this fax and I should secure it by whatever means I can.
	He asks me to read the codes off of it, two of them, and then he tells me I shouldn't share it with anybody and that I should keep it secured and someone will pick it up later.
	Well, okay.
	I say okay.
	He's a very authoritarian individual.
	He somehow, you know, managed to reach me in my car phone out of nowhere.
	Somebody gave him my phone number.
	This was on a call back, by the way, Art.
	At this point, they have your attention.
	Oh, yeah.
	And so I continue with the facts.
	I get home and I keep it.
	I go to work the next day and business as usual.
	And I'd say about three quarters of the way through the day, I'm beginning to get curious.
	Why hasn't anyone called me to pick up whatever this is?
	All right.
	That is a perfect place to hang the audience up.
	And so that's what we're going to do.
	We're going to hang them up right here.
	Jack, hold on.
	We'll be right back to you after the top of the hour.
	You've got a good rest.
	I'm Jack Shulman from American Computer Company is my guest.
	And if you've been listening, you won't be going anywhere.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	the night featuring a replay of coast to coast am from february 11 1998
	the you won't have to think twice
	she's pure as new york snow oh
	ah ah
	ah you're listening to art bell somewhere in time the night
	featuring a replay of coast to coast am from february 11 1998
	my guest is jack shulman uh ceo of american computer company
	company.
	He is in possession of what he claims to be alien technology in the form of something called a trans-capacitor, which applied to storage and speed with regard to a computer.
	...would make the modern-day computer, as an abacus, would be compared to a 333 MHz computer today.
	In other words, it would change the world.
	And we're right in the middle of a story that we'll pick up on in a moment regarding his
	acquisition of this and then a break-in at his company's headquarters.
	The man who may change the computer world forevermore as we know it, and our world generally
	forevermore as we know it, for the transcapacitor in a device as large as your mouse, the mouse
	you use to manipulate your computer, could literally transfer from one side of the country
	to the other the contents of the entire world wide web, to give you some idea of what we're
	talking about.
	A sentient machine?
	Probably.
	Storage?
	Speed?
	That's what human beings are made up of.
	That's what our brain is.
	Storage and speed and maybe something more.
	I guess we're going to find out.
	Anyway, here's Jack once again.
	He was in his car.
	It was giving some identifying numbers to somebody on the telephone past the CIA.
	The person is telling Jack Well, it was interesting.
	We were in the middle of a little bit of stormy weather, and I was crossing the Hudson River.
	Have you been to New York at all?
	Oh, yes.
	So you know what the Hudson River can be like to cross, particularly on a bridge.
	Sure.
	In the middle of some stormy weather.
	And the phone that I was using kicked out.
	The individual apparently decided at that moment he was, in the classical fashion, going to not bother to call me back, having told me that I should secure this and that I should, in essence, keep it from any public contact, not discuss it further over telephone.
	Maybe he thought you hung up on him.
	Possibly.
	What he, I don't think, realized was that the phone I was using was a computer-based telephone, which I keep in my car.
	And I was able to actually dial back in and find the extension he was working on, which is one of the little-known features of the federal telecommunications system, which I, some years ago, worked on.
	Dialed right back to his desk.
	Surprised the daylights out of him.
	I'm sure.
	Indicates to you, anyway, that I must be a part of the computer industry.
	And he goes, Yeah, I must be real.
	What should I do?
	And he said, Well, just stay calm, and we'll come and get this.
	Don't worry.
	So the next day, as I mentioned, I went to work and about three quarters of the way through, I became a little concerned because here I have this, you know, hot potato in our possession, this, this It's a document which apparently has some kind of secrets and classified material, classified information on it.
	Right.
	And so I make a couple of frantic calls, shall we say, to the Pentagon again.
	And I get a call back and I'm told, OK, don't worry about it.
	Someone will get back to you.
	It's the end of the week already now.
	I go on into the weekend.
	I take the material with me home, keeping it on my person like a loyal I'm wondering what's going to happen.
	Saturday, I'm working at home.
	Sunday, I'm working at home.
	I go into work on Monday.
	I get there, and lo and behold, there is Vinnie, the maintenance man, cleaning up what looks to me to be a whole bunch of glass in the doorway entrance to my offices.
	I look at him, and he's looking at me kind of strangely.
	I'm looking at him, and I'm realizing, We don't have any door or, in fact, entranceway glass anymore.
	Completely blown out.
	Completely blown out into shards of little tiny pieces.
	But I'm telling you, when I say heavy-duty glass, I mean heavy-duty glass.
	The lock has been wreaked asunder, and I go into the offices, and sure enough, various parts of the office have evidence of having been overturned, examined, looked through.
	I stop everybody, because you know when people encounter something like this, they usually don't realize they're just spoiling an evidence scene, if you know what I mean.
	Yes.
	And so I try to stop Vinny, who's, you know, for whatever reason, starts cleaning up the glass ridiculously.
	I stop the people who've gotten to the office before me, one of the secretaries, and stop people who are coming in.
	And I get the local police department in Cranford on the phone, and I ask them if they'd mind coming up here.
	It turns out that Vinnie had called them, but they hadn't come up.
	Apparently he'd encountered this at about 530 in the morning, and he just reported it and didn't make a big to-do, and since the police didn't come up for a while, they finally did arrive, and we went through them walking around the office, taking pictures, filing the usual pro forma reports, taking statements from people who had really nothing much to tell them other than that, oh yes, this was overturned, that was overturned.
	We found Very few, very strange pattern of theft.
	Useless or valueless things, like a broken up old CD player.
	Like they didn't know what to take?
	Well, almost like they just grabbed whatever they, at the moment, could grab to make it look like they were robbing the place.
	Okay.
	And also, for all intents and purposes, somebody had gone through our motion detectors in our lobby, our keycard security system with the silent alarms, The motion detectors that detect the elevator moving when the alarms are set, the heavy-duty, heavy-gauge doors, both glass in the front and glass in our offices, and had also then gone through breaking open several doors, and we have about 20 some-odd offices in our facility.
	So this wasn't the Watergate group?
	Well, they were real good, whoever they were, because they didn't leave a single fingerprint.
	Alright, well that's CIA or Pentagon.
	Well, somebody.
	And so that's the end of that story?
	Not really.
	No?
	No.
	I decided at that particular juncture, because I'm walking in with my briefcase, and in my briefcase is this fax, that I'm bubbling over, trying not to tell the police, About this fax in the briefcase.
	Well, you've got to be asking yourself at this point, was it the fax, or was it the transcapacitor, which you had already been talking about?
	Yeah, well, in fact, at that particular juncture, I had talked about the transcapacitor, because, you know, we are a little out of sync in terms of publicity versus what we're doing.
	I've been talking with a transcapacitor about the transcapacitor privately with people in the scientific community, consulting with them and asking them about these, you know, these designs.
	Yeah, so could have been either one, really.
	And so we have these three suspects, the story on our website, the transcapacitor, the fax that's in my possession, or the robbery of about 27 cents worth of change in the honor bar in our lobby, which I doubted.
	I doubt the last one, Art.
	In any event, I mean, it was really, really strange.
	I mean, for very valuable $10,000, $20,000 computers, things you could have literally walked out with, laptop computers with 15-inch, 14-inch screens, You know, hard drives, things you could have just walked out of the office with were left behind.
	Alright, so it's obvious they're not there to rob you.
	Right, they were there to look through.
	You bet.
	And in fact, some time later we realized that there had been some things secreted into the back of one of our file cabinets.
	Some recordable CDs and some odd documents that It's a later story art, but... Recordable CDs?
	That's correct, which in fact had material on them, which we thoroughly analyzed at first, and then returned to their owner, the Defense Communications Agency.
	Oh my gosh!
	Yeah, well, it gets a little bit strange at that particular juncture, because I called the Pentagon, because now I have this, now an even more overwhelming incentive to try to get this fax out of my possession, unable, it's sticking to me like flypaper.
	Are you sure?
	And this event happening out of the blue, and we've been in that facility five, seven, eight years, never once something like this.
	At this point, you're probably concerned for your physical well-being.
	Well, I can tell you that at that particular moment, I wasn't certain what was going on, so I can tell you I called each of my family members and loved ones to see if anything happened in their homesteads and to make certain that they were okay.
	Of course.
	Local police in each town and said, you knew me, and said, look, you know, my mother and father are alone.
	Could you perhaps just check to see if everything's all right?
	So I worried at first about them, and then I started worrying a little bit about my staff and myself.
	At that point, I called back to a contact at the Pentagon in the Situation Room, and I explained that Colonel James and this other fellow, a lieutenant who had contacted us by the car phone, had not picked up this fact, and we'd just had a break-in.
	And I said, look, you know, we got two things here.
	I can go to where there's a secured fax machine.
	I can securely fax this fax to you so you can look at it.
	Or I can put it in some kind of courier pouch.
	Well, I was told, ordered, don't give it to anyone.
	Then I'd say about four hours later, I got a call from someone at McGuire Air Force Base in South Jersey who said that she wanted to discuss the matter with me.
	I was not at the office at that particular moment.
	I'd stepped out and so I, Alright.
	i when i got back i called her and she made arrangements for me the next day to
	meet appear of the air force
	uh... office of special investigations alright boy you know
	normally you would expect a couple of guys in suits uh... with uh... national security type ideas would show up
	and simply collect the facts from you
	ask you if you have any copies take uh... some sort of statement and leave
	well here we have this fact and without our knowledge for the weather until a
	couple months later that we even realized that maybe somebody stuck something in the back of
	one of our file cabinets
	Actually, we started by looking through closets, looking through ceiling storage, looking through a whole variety of storage.
	So here we had what ultimately turned out to be things secreted in our file cabinets and this mysterious fax, and I guess at that particular juncture I grew so concerned that I insisted that they come down in the morning and not in the afternoon the next day.
	Is that all I could get them to agree to?
	Well, out of the blue, two fellows show up the next morning.
	Both of them looking like they stepped out of a Humphrey Bogart One of them, right down to the tattoos, the unbelievable physique, the muscles on muscles and warts on warts, looking like a cross between Schwarzenegger and Popeye by the name of Ledestri, an agent of the OSI, and one of his partners, show up and instead of even making more than a cursory effort to look at what we were going to show them and to retrieve the facts, take me
	And a staff member and put us through what we did.
	We took them to an off the beaten path office down the hall and the other floor so that they could sit in some degree of security and talk with us.
	They put me through this, I'd say, third degree that covered every part of my life I guess basically short of checking the length of my middle finger and whether I still had my tonsils, they asked me just about everything else.
	They knew about things about me that I had never shared with anyone.
	They knew about things that I thought so confidential that no one would ever know about them.
	And they questioned me about them.
	They questioned me about everything right back to, I'd say, oh, I was about eight or nine years old.
	They then made a very, very cursory effort of just looking in one of the offices.
	It was as if they already really didn't care what had happened.
	They gave us a receipt, a signed receipt for the fax and expressed thanks in a kind of a, shall we say, patronizing manner for having endured whatever we endured to get this fax back to them.
	No reference to the break-in.
	In fact, though we showed them, we volunteered information about it, Well, Jack, if your story is accurate, it is one of the most important stories that mankind has ever heard.
	had been pulled off a wall at one point they just made a very very cursory effort to look at i got
	the distinct impression looking back at it twenty twenty hindsight
	that it wasn't as if they didn't know what happened before they got there
	well jack if your story is uh...
	accurate it it is one of the most important stories uh... that mankind has
	ever heard i've got somebody uh... who is a little more familiar with
	this story uh... than i am has been closely involved with you and i
	know you respect uh... online with me
	It's Linda Moulton Howe, who reports for us, does a lot of scientific reporting, and I know has had several discussions with you.
	Linda?
	Yeah, all right, and hi Jack Schulman.
	Hello Linda, how are you?
	I have been so provoked to follow the American Computer Company story since September when I did that series of I wanted to just footnote that I was there in September and I did get to see that broken glass in your doorway and where they were fixing the wall and we reported that more freshly.
	It wasn't very long after that break-in that I did that interview with you.
	Yes, in fact, I believe you and I had an opportunity to take a look at how bad the job was done by Vinnie and his wood contractors trying to put up that sort of silly secondary wood door with the metal frame and how it looked like it was just about to fall off.
	I think I said to you, you know, there are things that I would have liked to have kept here that I have to take out of here now, because anybody can just knock this thing over with a feather.
	Yeah, and back then in September, the term transcapacitor was not the issue.
	It was the transfer by the United States Army to Bell Labs, something that fell in the category of a transistor and integrated circuit.
	And one of my questions right now before I ask you some things about that is in your interview with News Bites in December that was on the internet, it quoted you as saying that, quote, In talking about the transcapacitor, try a poker chip sized 100 gigabyte hard drive with no moving parts and a tiny battery to sustain internal memory for say 10 years, quote-unquote.
	In Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso's book, The Day After Roswell, he says, and I've actually talked with him about this when he held what he said and used the same phrase, poker chip sized, He said there were thin, two-inch, around, matte-gray, oyster-cracker-shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic, but had tiny roadmaps of wires etched along the surface.
	Is this description and your physical description anywhere near the same?
	I would say that that would be a very accurate representation of some of the material we're working from.
	So that they are flat, wafer-like, and they do have raised, etched, tiny roadmaps, so to speak, along the surface?
	That would be a layman's description of them.
	That would be fairly accurate, yes.
	Only observable under a microscope, or with your eye?
	Well, actually, they would be blurry to the human eye.
	You would have to get close to them, and you could begin to make out What would be apparently a mosaic like array, but you would not be able to see the finest detail of the money.
	You would have to look at that under a microscope.
	Well, I know that one of the, as you talked about earlier, one of the main differences between the transistor and the capacitor is the capacitor holds charges, which can be measured by measuring voltage.
	And that one of the sentences in this interview says, quote, The transcapacitor stores multiple voltage states that can be reliably measured.
	So coupling the devices into arrays like transistor logic gates could make the logic of current solid state devices seem like ancient cave wall writing.
	I wondered what measures so accurately these voltage at so many levels?
	Well that's interesting because it's one of the details that we have deliberately omitted And the reason we've omitted it, Linda, is because it has to do with the internal connectivity of the transcap, which provides enough access to the information in both time and in numerology, shall we say, that enables one to literally list the information as to where in the range the number ends
	The transcapacitor is set almost like I think Tony on my staff described it best as being like the scales of the scales of justice moving up and down on either side.
	All right you two hold on right there we'll be back after the bottom of the hour.
	It sounds like to reveal the method of measurement of these middle voltages, these varying voltages, would reveal the way the trans-capacitor operates.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert series.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11th, 1998.
	I bid you all good morning.
	Again, you might compare the trans-capacitor.
	you.
	Uh, you might...
	...set up the following analogy that if a transistor operates in a yes and a no, two states, the transcapacitor operates in all states in between the maybes, the gray areas.
	It makes decisions at levels that a transistor never even considered, and that is where the conversation left off.
	Manner of measuring Those various voltages.
	Jack and Linda Moulton-Howe, you're both back on the air.
	All right.
	You know, Linda, I can complete the answer for you.
	I've actually been holding my breath there all during that.
	What measures this voltage?
	Well, we're using a conventional TTL accumulator with a quadrature, what's called a quadrature signal analysis circuit.
	It's similar to a phase loop lock.
	Suffice to say, without going too elaborately into the technical details, we're able to cause an emission from each device, not unlike a radio transmission.
	You've got to understand that devices that operate at this speed are really operating at the speeds of radio wavelengths.
	Well, Jack, in that NewsBytes interview, you were quoted as saying that the device uses a, quote, isotropic crystalline substrate.
	As its basic matrix.
	Capable of bi-stable resonance and quantum storage?
	That's correct.
	The resonance that we're talking about are the resonant frequencies it's able to emit.
	So you measure these at radio... Now all computers, of course, radiate like bandits, most of them anyway.
	Yes, they do.
	However, we don't really use a lot of the types of radiation and emission art that these computers are capable of generating.
	We try to keep it right down into the electron paths.
	When I read the colonel's description that he physically took out of a file drawer in the Pentagon, in General Arthur Trudeau's office, thin, two-inch round, matte gray, oyster-cracker-shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic but had tiny roadmaps of wires barely raised, etched along the surface.
	Did you indicate that you actually have these physical devices?
	No, I didn't, dear.
	And pardon me for using the expression, dear, it's getting late here.
	The fact is, we have drawings of very in-depth micrographic studies apparently of those gray matte circles.
	Now, I can't, Linda, of course you know me to be someone who will not say that those were absolutely definitively the gray circles that Colonel Corso found in a Pentagon drawer.
	But if you want to look at a visualization of one we put a visualization of one on our website.
	And I don't recall the the it was the page that describes the transcapacitor imaged as a like a Pentium type chip carrier.
	And further on down the page is one of those what you have described as in a round two inch round flat gray plastic wafers, shall we call them, with the what Colonel Corsa described as a road map of wiring, if you will.
	We call those deposition arrays or alliterations, if you will, of the circuitry on board such a wafer.
	If you go and take a look at the website, you'll see something that is as close a visualization as we can give you based on the drawings.
	Close enough for inter-dimensional work.
	And just so I understand clearly, Jack, you don't physically have from the consultant or from anybody else an actual physical trans-capacitor?
	Well, actually, we have a trans-capacitor.
	What you're describing may not have been the trans-capacitor that we built.
	We spent a fair amount of money trying to reconstruct a research evolution from the drawings, our own device, which we dubbed the transfer capacitor.
	So in other words, you built this from drawings, you were not handed a physical object?
	No, that's correct.
	That's where one of our proof problems is.
	I know you were engaging in an investigation One of the proof problems we have is we have drawings but no physical sample of the physical device that may have been in the possession of Colonel Corso at one point.
	Well, Jack, what is the isotropic crystalline substrate that you're using?
	I can't answer that, dear.
	Is it that the material itself is key to being able to use resonance for measurement?
	That would be accurate, yeah.
	I can't describe it in the type of terms that the audience would understand, but suffice to say, it's a form of, shall we call, semi-conductive combination of mineral and chemical, that based on the chemical formula that accompanied the drawings, we were able to recreate, but we didn't start off trying to build this highly dense Two inch device.
	We started off to build just one component.
	One ninety billionth or one hundred billionth of this wafer.
	And did I understand you to say that the consultant inherited this lab book or lab notebook?
	Well that's interesting because that actually has been the conception some people have passed on to others.
	You may have heard it that way.
	The fact is the consultants friend, a widow of the lab shopkeeper.
	The widow of the lab shopkeeper had it from his estate, and she had in fact discussed with the consultant the
	possibility of it being fully evaluated initially because she felt it had
	tremendous, potentially tremendous financial value.
	Do you have any understanding why such a highly sensitive lab notebook
	from a lab as highly classified and sensitive as Bell Labs would have been in 1947,
	that that lab notebook would ever have been with this scientist in a way that would have escaped being scooped up
	by the government?
	Well frankly I believe that this is probably not the only edition of this lab notebook.
	I believe that this was one of several from the secret research facility That was engaging in this research, and I believe that the shopkeeper very deliberately, instead of destroying the materials, kept them for himself.
	Linda, may I stop you long enough to ask you, on the cooperative side of what you might know about all of this, would you relate to the audience very briefly your experience with going to a Bell Labs Oh yes!
	Going to Bell Labs, with regard to the transistor itself, would you tell us that story quickly?
	And Jack Schulman, you have not heard this.
	This was in October.
	I was a guest speaker over at Rutgers University and I decided completely and totally, without any pre-planning, that I would go to Murray Hill Bell Labs and I wanted to see what they had on display.
	as the history of the transistor in the integrated circuit in the lobby which I'd heard a great deal about and I went in and here was the big year 1947 with a series of displays the one front and center was labeled transistor and I believe the words were the greatest revolution or one of the greatest revolutions in the history of the world and I moved to the case expecting to see this This possible extraterrestrial device hiding as a transistor and there was a plain place in a dusty shelf something had freshly been removed from there and the only thing in the case was a photograph of the triangular shaped object which has been variably described in reports that I've read from physical review articles as either
	A wedge or triangular shaped piece of plastic or in one article it said it was quartz.
	But nevertheless, this object in the photograph got my attention because it was immersed and surrounded in what looked like a cobble of wires and it was the only very precise and machined part of the photograph.
	And I went and asked at the desk, I said, where is the 1947 transistor?
	And the person at the desk said, what do you mean?
	And I said, well, I was looking for it and there's nothing on the shelf.
	Clearly there's dust around a place where something was there and there's a photograph.
	And the person hurried over, seemingly somewhat alarmed that this was not there.
	And she said, well, I will get somebody.
	And in a little while, a very tall man came in black garb and wearing a hat that had Wackenhut Embroidered across the top of his baseball cap.
	He was security.
	And he seemed to be, well, what is wrong here?
	And I said, well, I just simply wanted to see the transistor from 1947.
	And you can see yourself, there's dust on a shelf.
	And there's a place here where something was sitting that I think is probably what was in that photograph.
	But I'm curious why this 1947 exhibit of the transistor The first transistor would be gone.
	And the Wackenhut security person said, I don't know.
	I don't know why it is gone.
	I will do some checking.
	So I stayed in the lobby, and I looked at this extraordinary evolution of Bell Labs work up through integrated circuits and many other things.
	And about 20 minutes later, he came back saying he had done some checking.
	He had no answer for why the transistor was missing from its glass.
	But I thought at the time, it was October, and between the reports that I did on the radio, September 7th, Dreamland, September 9th, Coast to Coast, September 14th, Dreamland, after the interview with you at the offices, that by October, there had been a great deal of conversation about this being an alleged possible extraterrestrial source piece of technology.
	And I wondered if Bell Labs had decided to simply remove it for some reason.
	And that is this story.
	And it also leads, Jack, to some confusion that I've had about this is that on January 6, 1998, on your website, you had an article and it was entitled, Stunning News of Hoax in 1947, unquote.
	In which you argued that the Bell Labs photograph of that triangular shaped object above the slab of germanium is not a 1947 transistor photo, but is a 1943 high back voltage microwave rectifier diode or triode prototype.
	What I wondered is, do you mean a vacuum tube rectifier or a solid state rectifier?
	Well, the reality of that particular device is it was vacuum tube based.
	But this particular prototype is a kind of what I might call a goo-gog of work that might have been in progress in 1943, and somebody's idea of a bad joke.
	Well, you know, even John Bardeen and Walter Brattain, who shared that Nobel Prize for the discovery of the transistor in the integrated circuit, I was given a physical review letters to the editor that those two scientists wrote on June 25, 1948, About the same time that they applied for the patent to the U.S.
	Patent Office.
	And their letter in physical review was entitled, quote, The Transistor, a Semiconductor Triode, unquote.
	And then they said, Each point, when connected separately with the base electrode, has characteristics similar to those of the high back voltage rectifier, unquote.
	Which are the words that you have on your website.
	And the point that those two scientists were trying to make, as I understand it, was that the transistor that they were trying to develop, or that they were trying to patent, has two contact points close together at the same time, which is at the base of the triangle, where the triangle comes to a point.
	One point has forward flow of current, and the other point has a reverse bias.
	But a rectifier has only one point contact, and only one direction of current flow, and they were trying to make that very point.
	Well, I think what they were trying to do, if I had to amplify what they were saying, was they were trying to draw a bridge between the transistor and how rectifiers work, which in physics is not really so.
	It's not valid.
	We've checked this very thoroughly and discovered that a rectifier is, as you suggested, a unidirectional flowing half-wave full conductor, whereas a transistor consists of three Either NPN or PNT, negative or positive charge-carrying materials, which I think you and I had a brief discussion about back in... That's right, and I've read a lot more since.
	Sure.
	Which consists of a doping of normally a material like gallium or silicon with various... We've learned many different ways to do it now based on boron, based on arsenic, but predominantly silicon arsenide or gallium arsenide.
	And by the very formula that you produce, each of these three parts, you produce various operating characteristics that relate very specifically to that charge barrier theory that I referred to that is the center component blocking or allowing electrons to pass between the outer components.
	But I think what I was trying to say is that even Bardeen and Brattain We're using exactly the phrase that you used on the website back in 1948 in this letter in which they were addressing that each point if connected separately with the base electrode has the characteristics similar to a high back voltage rectifier.
	Well in fact they were quoting Shockley who had stated that he in fact discovered quote-unquote the effect By looking at high back voltage rectifiers, presumably rectifier triodes.
	The problem is though, the rectifier triode was called also the closed spaced triode.
	Does that term sound familiar to you?
	Right.
	That was Dr. Jack Morton's invention in 1943.
	And he's the man that you knew when you were growing up in high school and who was He was strangely murdered in the early 70s.
	That's precisely correct.
	And he was director of the Integrated Circuit Department at Bell Labs.
	Later on, and he also was the head, essentially, of the project within which the transistor was allegedly invented by Bell Labs.
	And he's a footnote in that project, too, which is sort of dramatic in that his role was Well, he's almost a huge historian to himself.
	And before we get off on that sidebar, what I would like to follow, because I have been very curious and I've been reading a lot trying to understand this issue of history and where science may have left off and extraterrestrial technology began.
	In your article, you created a color picture of what you call, quote, the real transistor test rig, unquote, without a ground plate housing.
	And it is a series of rectangular shaped objects bolted together with what look like screws showing a negative, positive, negative configuration.
	And you compare your NPN, real transistor, To a chalkboard drawing photographed next to Bell Lab scientist William Shockley at Bell Labs, about which you wrote on the website, quote, it has been suggested that the photo drawing on the blackboard appears to not only resemble the test rig, but also looks like an actual, quote, semiconductor micro-deposition, unquote, as might be found on a modern day integrated circuit, unquote.
	Further, your report suggests that Shockley's blackboard drawing could be, quote, an alien transistor, unquote.
	Well, when I took your drawing and I took the Shockley blackboard drawing to a physicist colleague of mine, he said immediately that the blackboard drawing next to Shockley is an energy level diagram of an NPN transistor and that, in fact, I found In another Physical Review article, that is July 1st, 1951, by W. Shockley, M. Sparks, and G. K. Teal, called PN Junction Transistors, the exact drawing is there labeled, in 1951, the NPN structure and the energy level scheme, and it matches... Well, I must stop you right there.
	Yeah.
	The NPN structure and its energy level scheme.
	See, the error of people's thinking on this is they don't realize that the energy level diagram is an NPN structure described in its shape with its energy component levels superimposed on its shape.
	It is not a Gantt chart, a Pert chart, an energy sinusoidal wave pattern, or any other such thing.
	That's where the error in people's thinking has been made on this particular subject.
	But you wouldn't disagree that The drawing next to Shockley matches absolutely the NPN structure in the energy level scheme.
	And in fact, the one that matches is biased as an amplifier.
	That's what the drawing is, and that's what Shockley's pointing to.
	Correct.
	That's correct.
	In fact, it is not an oscillator.
	It is an amplification-type device.
	But what's peculiar about it is he has utilized superimposed on the device.
	You've got to understand that Bill Shockley, when he created that drawing, Created new science and new math at the time that did not exist before.
	Jack, I've got to stop both of you right there.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	Linda, Linda, Linda, hold on.
	The clock doesn't let us stretch anything out.
	I'm sorry.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	We'll be right back from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	Good morning.
	from the high desert, Linda Moulton Howe and Jack Schulman, CEO of American Computer Company,
	are my guests, and we'll get right back to them.
	I realize that it is getting late now for our guest, Jack Schulman, CEO of American
	Computer Company, and Linda Moulton Howe in Philadelphia as well.
	The discussion became awfully technical in the last half hour.
	It was of necessity, and pointed out, I think, that not all of the information on the American Computer Company website is necessarily completely accurate.
	Of course, that goes along with the Internet generally.
	Now, I do want to ask Linda Bolton how, one thing, in private conversations with Linda recently, Linda has indicated to me that whatever she might believe about this entire story, there are certain aspects of the story, people named, things known about, that could not possibly be known about from any casual source.
	Is that accurate, Linda?
	Yes, I would say that, and Jack Shulman and I have talked about this, that even though he himself has said that he has been confused about some of the details and the evolution of this story, that from independent sources, much longer before Colonel Corso came forward this past year with his book, that I had been told that our government has been spending a great deal of time and money since the 1940s trying to back engineer what was described as extraterrestrial technology.
	And what has been lacking from all of these background sources has been any indication of proof.
	And before we went to the break, what I was leading to is what seems to me the fundamental and most important question in some ways, Both for Jack, for you, for me, for everybody listening, and that is, where does the science and the history in Bell Labs start or stop and the possibility of actually looking at something that was introduced from a non-human advanced intelligence begin?
	Well, I got the original U.S.
	patent On what is called the Three Electrode Circuit Element Utilizing Semiconducting Materials, that was the transistor.
	It was issued on October 3, 1950.
	They filed June 17, 1948.
	When you look at the drawings with the U.S.
	patent, it has that same triangular-shaped configuration that Bardeen, Bratain, and Shockley Describe as being important to having this very tiny gap at the bottom of the triangle with the gold foil on the side creating this ability to have these two-directional currents.
	And because it has the triangular configuration... That's not a transistor though.
	That's not what a transistor does.
	Well, okay, Jack, I'm going to stop here in just a second and throw it to you because when I go to your January 6th website You've got a quote and a drawing and it says, from the shopkeeper's notebook, which I'm assuming you mean the Bell Lab, alleged lab notebook, in ACC's possession, I have created a color picture of the real transistor test rig without its ground plate housing for simplicity.
	We have created a transistor.
	We have created a transistor tester.
	One of the things that's bothering me about the path that you're pursuing at this point is that you're personalizing this effort.
	Also, I take exception to the suggestion that not everything on our website is accurate.
	I take that as actually not so.
	Okay, well you seem to concede that there might be some things that were, as Linda suggested, not quite right.
	No, I didn't say anything of the sort.
	What I said was that When we were discussing this before the break, what I said was that Linda was incorrect in suggesting that the image on the chalkboard that Bill Shockley drew was an energy diagram alone, because in fact I knew Bill Shockley, and I can tell you from talking to him that that was in fact not just
	A diagram of energy levels, and it is reflected in his language over and over again in what he has written.
	It's describing... Now the patent that... May I finish?
	The patent that was filed by Bardeen and Bretain refers to the device depicted in the photograph, which if you look at the 1963 article in Scientific American, written by, I believe, originally authored by Walter Bretain, he describes it as, that's not a transistor as you and I know it.
	That is precise language.
	The problem that we have here is you can file with the U.S.
	Patent Office a description of almost anything, and so long as it does not violate a previously filed patent, it does not have to work.
	It does not have to do anything.
	It could be filed strictly to control some aspect of it.
	It is nothing more than the granting of a license.
	by the US government for whatever parts that represent that patent that are combined together to give you control over it.
	That does not mean that you have in fact patented the transistor You could be patenting something similar to the transistor, similar enough to prevent anyone else from being able to build a transistor, until you had figured out how it works.
	So we're just talking about words here?
	No, in fact, in the patent office, that's true.
	Jack, in fairness here, my issue is just trying to get clarity on what is a very complex subject.
	Of course it is.
	Don't misunderstand me.
	I'm not criticizing you at all, Linda.
	You have done the best single job I have seen in all of the past year of confronting the issue with regard to what Bell Labs did.
	In fact, I must commend you because you went past what anyone else would have in fact found insurmountable, particularly confronting the security desk at Bell about the missing prototype.
	Because you have in fact broken something that we in fact, I said to you once up front, we're sitting on a lot of things we're afraid to share with people.
	One of the things I'm afraid to share with you is the fact that, in fact, I've suspected since 1970 and 1969 that the transistor did not really originated Bell Labs, and in fact, that that picture depicts something other than a transistor, consisting of a piece of paperclip, the cut end of a pen, a glass cut in a triangle embedded by adhesive in a material, And two pieces of wire soldered to what in fact may very well have been bubble gum wrapper or I should say a stick of gum wrapper that sat on someone's desk in his study for a number of years that had in fact sat on his desk for a number of years before the transistor project.
	I think they did an incredible job of covering up what they did.
	Well back to your drawing, do you think that an actual alien transistor Would have screws in these rectangular blocks?
	No, no, no.
	These are not screws.
	What are they?
	Those are depictions of, in fact, what may very well have been surface clamping that was intended to keep the device from separating.
	You see, the problem is it's a flat drawing that we're dealing with, and what it is, in fact, is like a surface clamping that has a ridging on it to hold it, and it's been drawn in a particular way that our artist May have made it look like screws, but in fact it was sort of clamping the objects in place, not screws.
	That's what Linda may have meant when she said some misunderstandings on the website.
	Linda, I well understand why you're drawing the conclusions.
	I've faced every one of these issues a hundred times in the last, perhaps a hundred times a month in the last six months.
	Okay, but how would you reconcile such a radical difference between rectangular blocks and the actual filed patent which has this triangular configuration?
	All that really did with regard to the patent was give them the ability to create a narrow and small pathway If you know how the material that they claim that they were using was working that would in fact operate like a triotic rectifier would if it was made of germanium.
	You have to understand the days that germanium were added to transistors to give them rectifying capabilities in their emitters and so forth have a long since passed except in the high radio wave transistors and this particular device Which, I called it a goo-gog before, was related to the combination of diodic rectifier material, like germanium, to vacuum tube technology.
	But, again, not a semiconductor.
	And again, more, it is a high back voltage diode, excuse me, or triode diode, or triotic diode, because it's really a diode, but it acts like a triode.
	And the key was, this was a device that failed at the labs to provide anything of any value.
	This particular object became apparently a source of sore point, but it so closely resembled the way you would diagram how you might build a transistor at its most, say, the base, where the three elements appear to come together, that using it as the basis for the drawing for the purposes of patenting had no, shall we call it, penalty to the labs.
	Okay.
	Well, so they were able to patent Their description of the theory, and this drawing diagram, and it looked very, very much to their competition, to the people who would take the patent and try to reproduce it, very much like it was the device that they were, in fact, ultimately building.
	Which answers why you saw only a picture in dust, Linda.
	Well, somebody took it someplace, and I'd be curious to know if it's back.
	It probably is, but why was it taken out of that case?
	And Jack, if you actually have that lab notebook, or the consultant does, is there any reason why you can't actually photograph it and show the world actual photographs from this lab notebook?
	We intend to.
	Huh?
	We intend to.
	We've already announced our intent to publish parts of the lab shopkeeper's notebook right on the internet.
	But when?
	Well, we have an issue going on between us and the United States Air Force.
	And AT&T and Lucent Technologies, right at this particular moment.
	And so I can't give you a clear date.
	Can you describe the issue?
	Suffice to say it's in the, shall we call, pre-legal, pre-litigation state on the commercial side, and in the just-about litigation state on the military side.
	But the focus of the litigation is about which part?
	Well, in this particular instance, it's about the entire notebook and our story on our website.
	And so, Bell Labs is claiming the notebook as their property?
	I think that that would be a good assessment or interpretation, but at the same time, they're saying it's not really something that does anything or has any value.
	But if you then photographed it and put the photographs out, what would be the repercussion?
	Frankly, I don't know, but in order to have worked on it, bear in mind that we are not the owners, per se, of the notebook.
	We purchased, to some degree, the right to be able to Become involved in the developmental activity so that we would in fact learn a lot about the technology in question.
	That was our, shall we call it our agenda, if you will.
	To learn as much as we possibly could, because it might benefit us as a business.
	Alright, you have built the transcapacitor.
	Correct.
	We built a prototype.
	Now, are you under the same restrictions with regard to release of physical data?
	No.
	You've pointed out that we do have a restriction, both legal and compact-wise, with its actual owners, the widow of the gentleman who, in fact, pack ratted this particular object.
	But the transcapacitor, if we have any derivative legal repercussions regarding it, it's because, in fact, perhaps, Somebody might stake a claim saying that they, in fact, really own this and that we derived the material by, in essence, stealing it from Bell Labs.
	Jack, what is the U.S.
	Air Force's stake in this?
	At this particular juncture, we are standing them off in a really, really harsh back-and-forth writing campaign between our legal department and their Well, we call it the Communications and Control Directorate and the Office of Information and Records Distribution.
	Between those two groups, we have to exhaust, Linda, every avenue available to us to, under the, I think it's called the October 1997 Freedom of Information Act and the related laws about suing the Air Force, in order to obtain full control over We have to establish that we own the rights to the technology that's dependent in the drawings.
	We have to prove that Bell Labs will never make a claim of ownership.
	We have to establish that we own the rights to the technology that's dependent in the drawings.
	We have to prove that Bell Labs will never make a claim of ownership.
	And C, we have to establish the fact that since the allegation has been made
	that these technologies came off of a device that felt earth that was in essence salvaged
	by the Department of the Army and ultimately the Air Force, that they will A, B, A, no.
	never make any claim regarding it because they in fact have already divested their interest in it to in essence a third-party commercial organization who has since given it up for the purposes of any tangible financial value and subsequently we also have to pursue in the course of that Establishing the basic facts of their original existence, because it's either that or...
	We invented the transcapacitor as part of a lengthy research effort, just like Bell Labs supposedly invented the transistor.
	You understand the problem?
	Yeah, did you actually have some documentation in which the Air Force is supposed to have property claim on retrieved alien disks?
	Well, what we have is Air Force, actually not Air Force, but Department of the Army, Markings on some of the documents.
	That's what I'm understanding.
	It was Army and Navy.
	That's why I'm puzzled by Air Force.
	Well, I'm using the term Air Force because today the Air Force is the party responsible for what at one time the Army and the War Department were responsible for.
	Well, at one time it was the Army Air Force, actually.
	Yeah, the Army Air Force was in fact a part of the Army.
	Until the fall of 1947.
	Right, exactly.
	In fact, you know, Linda, you pointed out something else.
	You're a very, very intuitive investigator.
	You're pointing out the fact that At some point there, it became critical for the Army to divest the Army Air Force into a separate entity.
	Right.
	And interestingly, and I think you and I've had this discussion in the past, I know you and I could probably argue this for the next 12 years.
	And we can come up with all sorts of interesting facts.
	But the fact is, you know, remember White Sands was the place where the V-10 and the V-2 were being analyzed by the Department of the Army and by the various and sundry consultants, including Bell Labs and Aerospace.
	Jack, I have a question.
	spaces out of new england and bell labs with sort of the parent companies
	research arm there was also advanced research into weapons grade
	uh... radar systems going on in the area involving also uh... bell labs in a tnt
	uh... and also some very very advanced communications technology that
	ultimately today we see some of that technology having evolved into
	satellite communications jack i have a question between the notebook
	the transcapacitor technology.
	I Uh, and the break-in and the fax you received.
	Do you make any connection at all?
	You know, not that I care to go public with, um, at this moment.
	Uh, one of the reasons we're pursuing a case with the, um, with the, uh, the Office of Special Investigations, Communications, and Information Directorate is we are, in fact, extremely disturbed by reports that they filed that ultimately were given out as FOIAs.
	To folks like Larry Bryant and Brian Parks and so forth, including the original facsimile transmission, and some very intentionally, shall we call them, repressive and or defamatory comments, not just about me alone, but also about the American Computer Company, suggesting that this facsimile that we received is nothing of any significance to the public.
	We're just some little tiny, itty-bitty postage stamp-sized business.
	And strangely reflecting the kind of criticism received from a very small segment of the so-called ETI Investigation Community, a group of individuals who have taken it upon themselves over the course of the last 90 days to literally invade our website, posting nasty and what we believe to be slanderous and or uh... defamatory comments similar in nature to what were made by the two offices through a special investigations investigators who came up and here we were doing our civil duty.
	I really have to agree with that.
	The campaign against you has been intense.
	Oh, it's been horrific.
	But the fact is that all of us have thick skins from having worked in the computer industry for the last twenty-five years.
	If you think that that's tough, you should deal with IBM in a contract negotiation.
	Well, Jack, back to September, I know that when I interviewed you on the fourteenth We talked very specifically about the March 13th flyover of Arizona and that the consultant was saying that your fax was actually addressing the March 13th flyover because, remembering that interview, allegedly that there was an object that one of our DPS satellites photographed
	That was considered to be not terrestrial, not from Earth.
	That's right.
	That had selectively taken out some component or components of that satellite, and that our government was, I think to use your terms, extremely concerned about whether it was an aggressive action.
	All right, on that note, hold it, you two.
	We'll be right back to you.
	Jack Schulman and Linda Moulton Howe are my guests.
	We're discussing the transcapacitor.
	Uh, the actual invention of the transistor itself, or discovery of the transistor, and now we'll find out how all of this might in any way relate to what showed up over Phoenix on March 13th.
	Intrigued?
	I suspect so.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 11, 1998.
	Am I the only one?
	I'm not the only one.
	Once again, for those of you lost in the technical details, this transcapacitor is a device that would, to give you a good parallel, I suppose take the abacus and make a 333 megahertz computer, modern computer, look just
	like the thing with beads.
	It would move civilization forward faster than we've moved forward in any technological leap we've taken so far.
	We're going to make this the last segment for our two guests who are probably way past their bedtime.
	linda you were mentioning march thirteenth and phoenix Yes, and when I had talked with you, Jack, in September, the story was that the consultant, when seeing or hearing about the facts, said that it was information about this flyby by a non-human vehicle that had selectively somehow impaired that satellite
	And that there was great consternation on the part of the United States military.
	Can you discuss that now?
	I would like to add something, Linda.
	I have a separate source telling me that we experienced a rise in DEFCON level at that same time.
	In fact, that's true, Art.
	I thought so.
	Linda, your perception is true.
	However, interestingly, we're dealing with more than just one satellite, Linda.
	We're dealing with a defensive satellite, in this particular instance, that may have been, shall we say, being repositioned to try to respond to the perceived
	threat of what you've described as a flyby.
	And that it took place not just in the, you said it was March 13th I think, if I recall.
	Yeah, 1997.
	Yes, but also again, within the time period of the receipt of the fax,
	which pertained very specifically to reassignment of the satellite back to its former duties.
	What was the date of the fax?
	It was the end of July.
	Again, my mind is a little bit muddy right now.
	I believe it was July 31st.
	Is there a 31st day in July, folks?
	Yeah.
	I believe it was July 31st.
	And the date on it was July 31st.
	The perception that the consultant had was that, in fact, it was being placed on a specific duty from approximately March 13th to 14th In essence, protecting something from what I think, Linda, you and others have suggested was a UFO flyby.
	Well, that was your story to me on tape from the consultant.
	Meaning that the consultant had told you upon looking at the facts or hearing about the facts.
	Correct.
	So it was your consultant's testimony?
	Yes, that's correct.
	And I think what we have discovered, pardon me for saying so, we've discovered additional facts since that time about exactly what Sky
	Station is.
	And it apparently, it's an airborne-based defensive and assault weapon.
	Well, one of the things I'm curious is whether you've had any discussion with your consultants about the nature
	of the triangular craft that was reported by a number of people that I've interviewed personally
	between the 730 to 830 time period between Tucson and Phoenix.
	On that night, and there were even some refined estimates on the side from two real estate people
	who could actually measure the width of the thing or the length of the thing because they knew the real estate
	plot blocks and they said it was 1.8 miles long, a triangle in the sky, barely moving.
	Well, I think that that's, in fact, most of it, and from different sources, Linda, I've heard essentially the same story, and describing essentially the same What I believe may have happened is that some of the misinformation that subsequently arose between that time period described it as a football field sized oval
	Yeah, that may have been another... And then also tried to somehow correlate it to Sky Station, which is not that big.
	Which, by the way, any offensive space-based platform would be a treaty buster, and anybody getting in the way of that would be in trouble.
	Yeah, well, that's for sure, and in fact, interestingly or oddly, we've had a rather substantial controversy over its identity, what in fact it does, just in the last couple of days, because You know, rumors have been flying that this thing was retasked in July to move it to a parking orbit near the Gulf, in fact, for the purposes of both observation and or potentially assault.
	And that would time itself fairly precisely.
	To it being needed for an assignment that might have related to our present controversial footing with the country of Iraq.
	Saddam Hussein.
	Yes, indeed.
	I've got a fax here from the Electrical Engineering Department at Stanford.
	It says, most of the questions asked thus far focus on the past, how we got where we are now.
	Though this is interesting, as an electrical engineer I'm far more interested in the implications for the future.
	Please ask, Jack, the following questions.
	Are the trans-capacitor materials similar or the same as those used in present ICs?
	Well, some of them are, but not the ones that mean specifically how they semiconduct precisely.
	They aren't Bernoulli-type...
	They are, in fact, quantum devices, which should make some sense to the gentleman from Stanford.
	Well, they're not the same.
	They're similar.
	What I've had to do is actually get together some beer money, shall we say, and buy what, in essence, is a small semiconductor foundry for the purposes A semiconductor foundry, for those who don't know what it is, consists of materials for combining chemicals like fluorine and water and carbon-based substances and silicon-based structures to build something.
	We've had to, in fact, create a way to build this that is quite different than a classical integrated circuit in terms of its material, its crystallization process is different.
	It's the materials that are the chemicals that are making it different, but some of them are the same.
	It's a big leap, but it's not entirely done.
	Understood.
	He finishes, the reason these questions are so important is that it is very expensive and time-consuming to develop revolutionary IC manufacturing materials and processes.
	For sure.
	The fewer the manufacturing hurdles there are, the sooner we can all benefit from this new technology.
	Right.
	So that makes sense then.
	Yeah, it does in fact, because we're estimating right now, it's going to take us two years just to get to the point From about, say, January 5th, to the point where we're ready to start showing the device to peers for peer review, and then about another 18 months it'll take just to define the way to manufacture it with sufficient volume.
	So you are going to submit it then for peer review before you put it into practical application?
	It wouldn't make any sense not to, because even if we manufactured it, it could pull lightning out of my hat, Art.
	People would not, in the computers, they wouldn't use it for anything until they were convinced that it had the seal of approval on it.
	And we also need to get, for instance, things like the National Standards Committee to look at the National Institute of Standards.
	We need to get the American National Standards Institute to look at it.
	The IEEE to look at it.
	Just about everybody and anybody who means anything before anybody will even begin to try to devise circuitry to use it for anything.
	Well, has the Air Force or Lucent Technologies directly stated to you That trans-capacitor is ours and you can't develop it?
	I can't really answer that for reasons pertaining to legal confidentiality, but I can tell you that our discourse between American Computer Company and Lucent has been to such a degree negative that one of the letters that went between us and them we feel had some bearing on the dismissal of the Chairman of Lucent Technologies on the 20th of January.
	And what was the nature of your dispute with him at that point?
	At this particular juncture, just in the last day or so, it's become impossible for me to answer that question for reasons pertaining to counsel or advice.
	Yeah, I can imagine you're in a horrid legal situation.
	Yeah, it's not horrid, but it's tough.
	It's tough.
	You know, Art, the key is the benefits far outweigh the pain in this situation.
	It has a certain calming effect on all of us to know at least maybe we're going to do some good here.
	Well, when you talk about a quantum memory device, Jack, are you using the term quantum because, as you mentioned, it may have a 10 to the 23 power varying in voltages that can be measured?
	Can you explain why you use that term quantum in different resonant frequencies?
	The term quantum field would be familiar to Stanford.
	They would understand that and they would presume certain materials and they would presume when we talk about a crystalline structure that's isotropic,
	that has bistable resonant capabilities, and actually multistable resonant capabilities,
	it would begin to form a picture in their mind, they're beginning to get the drift,
	without us giving away the details that might spoil any value for our having done this.
	And resonance is the key.
	Well, resonance relates very specifically to oscillatory states,
	and that in fact bears on its quantum nature, but not derives from its quantum nature.
	Its quantum inversion field is the term we've been using.
	Well, right now, what do you think is going to be the timeline on this litigation with the military?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	We're waiting on responses from the military that have not been forthcoming, that in any other situation, had I not received responses by now, I would have been stunned.
	I mean, we're talking about repeated Inquiries from the 10th to the 28th of January that we're sitting here just basically holding our empty bag.
	Well, at some point, Jack, a lack of response constitutes permission.
	In essence, it constitutes permission for us to litigate.
	Exactly.
	It does not necessarily constitute permission for us to proceed because we still know certain things that I haven't revealed to you folks that we have to get a hold of from the Air Force, very succinctly defining Why certain inscriptions are on some of the materials we're deriving from.
	Well, you're not going to, Jack, you're not going to make it through this process without breaking open the whole... Of course.
	You're right.
	So you're going to have to blow it wide open.
	We're not only going to blow it wide open, but I'm beginning, you know, I get a little bit feisty every once in a while and I'm beginning to think maybe we should start taking a look at some of the things that might take us either too long or not be as valuable and just start releasing them.
	Well, Jack, do you have any way of conclusively proving right now that you are dealing with non-human advanced technology?
	No, other than our surmise and all, we have a preponderance of allegation and evidence combined, which makes a very, very strong case.
	There's nothing in these notebooks that ever says that this is extraterrestrial.
	It says of objects of unknown origin and objects which are of interest to aerospace and or I'm trying to quote this from my memory, which is a little tired right now.
	Aerospace and or scientific observers of astronomical phenomena.
	Phenomena, excuse me.
	So this will break the entire UFO thing all the way open from 1947?
	It's got to do something, Art.
	It's got to do something.
	It's also going to have to force, we feel that at some point it's going to force a far bigger source of information than we to have to come clean.
	Right.
	There is something that is very definitively going on here and again we don't know if, and I've got a caveat folks, I hate to backpedal and caveat because it looks You know, it looks like I'm trying to, in essence, somehow protect myself.
	But the fact is, honestly, we could also be being fed one of the most elaborately conceived misinformation hoaxes in history.
	You acknowledge that?
	I'm acknowledging it.
	And I've acknowledged it from day one.
	I just don't think so at this point.
	Has the consultant himself indicated any personal knowledge about the intent Of one or more non-human intelligences interacting with the planet?
	That's a complex question because I believe that if in fact this involves extraterrestrial species, there is apparently not an unreasonable unfamiliarity of any kind between the military and them.
	In essence, there's some familiarity there.
	That we, in fact, do not have privy to because, in fact, no matter what happens, when it happens, it's just basically going to be slid under a trapdoor and disappear.
	They're predominantly in the order of recorded radar, exhibitable, recordable radar phenomenon and observations.
	Nothing tangible like this.
	Now, who's trapdoor?
	Who's trapdoor, Jeff?
	I think you're asking me, right?
	Yeah.
	Who's trapdoor?
	Right.
	I'm not sure it's that guy who used to be the supply sergeant for the Manhattan Project.
	There's been implications made here that there's an organization that continues to operate within the United States that's part of the military that has no accountability and is responsible for this whole area of investigation.
	The Majestic 12 Group.
	I don't know the name from the perspective I've learned of it.
	It's called E2.
	And we had it for a while under surveillance.
	Arose by any other name, a government behind a government?
	What was strange about it, it was sitting in a building that would otherwise be described as national security level, top secret clearance, looking for all intents and purposes to the outside world like it was some kind of an automobile manufacturer, but it was not an automobile manufacturer.
	And one day as we were watching it, believing ourselves to be very clever, we noticed somebody coming up to the front of the building And placing a for sale sign on the building.
	Striking us as a little odd, and also that we had, in fact, I had a detective agency working with a gentleman who was very close to this subject for quite a while, and this actually spooked him, and he was in the former Navy, and they basically, what they did is they went up and they took a look inside the building, and this building, which they had been staking out during the night to see who came in and who came out, whose cars, whose license plates, etc., etc., was empty.
	And they hadn't seen anyone leave.
	There was no furniture there that had been there the day before.
	There were no materials, no people, and a for sale sign.
	And it was very strange to them, because they couldn't account for why they had just spent what in essence was to them several days surveilling a building that had people going in and out, was very busy, had furniture and mail and everything, that while they were watching it during the night apparently imploded and disappeared, leaving just the building with nobody in it.
	Don Jack, what steps have you taken to ensure your physical safety and the safety of the information that you possess?
	Well, the materials are under very, very close care.
	Unfortunately or unfortunately, Wackenhut Detective Services are the security guards for the Cali Park that we're in.
	But the guards that work there are elderly gentlemen in their 60s and 70s.
	You know, maybe perhaps that accounts for why it was perhaps that the break-in might have occurred fairly easily or regularly, and why someone was busy cleaning it up the next day.
	I don't know.
	But, bottom line, we've duplicated the materials.
	We have, in fact, completed the process of protecting them, laminating them, and we've duplicated them, and we've got the moral equivalent of the same thing that you might appoint a special master in court, someone who is a very, very trusted former public servant who's an attorney.
	That's good.
	Does this include the photonitron and the liquid memory that you've talked about on your website?
	Yeah, we're actually calling it the P-tron because people are taken aback by the term photonitron.
	They have a little hard time.
	The P-tron is extremely fascinating, Linda, because in essence, from it you could learn that it's possible in theory to transmit light and cause it to appear in space like light reflecting off a solid object.
	It may be something which is going to take us quite a while to figure out how it works.
	Secondly... Is that like IBM's teleportation experiments?
	IBM's teleportation experiments?
	Yeah, they did one this fall.
	They actually moved light.
	I don't... Well, you know something?
	If it, in fact, referred to the transliteration of attributional components of light.
	Yes, that is correct.
	It would, in fact, be the same.
	I think it is.
	That's what's described in the notebook.
	Now, where did this take place?
	IBM.
	IBM.
	See, you know, I didn't hear about that one.
	Yeah, it was a news story.
	I had, in fact, heard that there was someone in Switzerland who had done something similar once, like about six months or a year ago.
	Well, is this photo Nitron and the liquid memory Is this also written down in this notebook?
	Well, not the way that we've described it to you.
	We've tried to put it together in a form that the public can understand.
	For instance, the liquid memory, they didn't know what it was.
	We think we do.
	It has a ceramic metal composite, what looks like an electrolyte type of fluid.
	We've been talking with the Dow Chemical Corporation preliminarily about Offering to them in exchange for helping us determine exactly what is this fluid, some rights in its evolution.
	Because we don't think that we have the right mix for us as a company.
	We don't have the right mix of personnel in order to evaluate it.
	We are starting the discussion.
	We intend to offer them non-disclosure agreements because we think that they probably, of all people, might know a lot about what this device is.
	I'm led to believe they might have seen it before.
	Alright, we're... Just like I might have, you know... Go ahead, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry to interrupt, but we're out of time here.
	Linda, any final impressions for this evening?
	Well, I am provoked by this whole question that I think is going to be with us for a long time.
	How do we ever prove where human science evolution left off and this non-human technology may have begun?
	How do we prove it if the government and technology and companies like Bell Labs wanted to obscure that fact?
	And how did the principles survive the process?
	I don't know that they do, and that's why I'm worried about Jack.
	And can we know the truth before we get out of this particular century?
	That is my hope.
	I would agree with you, Linda.
	And by the way, I'd like to thank both of you, because it's a tough subject.
	It's difficult, you know.
	At our core, all of us, I think, everybody, particularly the two people I'm listening to on the phone, want to get to the truth at the bottom of this thing because of, I think, a moral commitment, both of you, that's to something a little bit higher than just what this type of radio programming is about, per se.
	You bet.
	Yeah, we really want to know the truth.
	And I think that goes for those of us at American Computer Company as well.
	I know my staff has been rather sorely stressed over the course of the last couple of days
	helping my assistant.
	I'm sure you'll learn to speak English.
	My group of assistants, I'm sure you'll learn to speak English.
	I'm sure you'll learn to speak English.
	Linda, thank you.
	Thank you to both of you.
	Good night to both of you.
	That's it from coast to coast and well beyond.
	That's all there is tonight.
	David John Oates tomorrow night.

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