Art Bell - Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Charles Cagle & Stan Deyo - Earth Changes, Solar Cycle 23, Christianity

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Dec. 5, 1997 - Art Bell

01:16:19

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Charles Cagle & Stan Deyo - Earth Changes, Solar Cycle 23, Christianity

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charles cagle

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unidentified		And so people can go up and reference what you're about to talk about on my website, correct?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so.
		I haven't seen your website today, so.
		Oh, okay.
		But since I talked yes, there's been a lot.
		Yes, you bet.
unidentified		All right.
		So there's new info there at www.artell.com.
		Now, in a moment, I would sure like you to give us sort of a summary, Charles, of what you believe is coming and why it's coming, so Standale might hear it.
		Let's see if we have Stan all the way to Australia, Perth, Australia, other side of the world.
		Here, I think, is Standale.
		Stan?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, we did a calculation the other day.
		We're about 15,250 kilometers away from you at the moment.
		Say that again, 15,250.
		250 kilometers.
		Yeah.
		That's a long way.
		Certainly feels like it sometimes.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		It certainly does.
unidentified		All right.
		What I would like to do, Sam, if you don't mind, I think that you two may have a lot in common.
		And I would like you to listen to what Charles has to say, sort of a summary of what he believes is about to occur.
		And then I'd like to come to you and have you give him a summary of what you and I have talked about so many times.
		And I'd like to set this up, by the way, and this is for everybody.
		My cats are going berserk tonight.
		I was talking to my boss up in Oregon, and he said his cats were going berserk.
		Now, that may mean absolutely nothing, or it may mean something, but I would say it might mean geomagnetic activity is on the close horizon.
		I don't know.
		It'd be interesting to find out from the audience whether they are experiencing the same thing.
		At any rate, if you don't mind, Charles, would you start and kind of give Stan a summary of your research?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, primarily my research involved structures of the magnetic fields of planets and stars, starting off originally with studying a phenomenon called ball lightning, which I mentioned last time I was on.
		And finally came up with a very interesting structure that's basically a toroid.
		It's a toroidal structure.
		I call it a magnetotoroid because it's more descriptive of what the magnetic field of a planet or a star is than the typical terminology which is called a magnetosphere.
		So if people hear me saying magnetotoroid, if they want to translate that in their mind into magnetosphere, then that's fine.
		But the magnetic fields of planets and, well, particularly of our star, the Sun, goes through a normal oscillation.
		And that oscillation is that the magnetic field begins to die off about halfway through that period.
		Now, this is the normal sunspot cycle, and it is called a dipole reversal sequence.
		And it takes about 11 years for the sun, and its field begins to die off.
		And about halfway through that, the magnetic field of the sun is not found.
		I mean, it really doesn't have a magnetic field per se, not a north and south dipole.
		But during that period of time, it develops a lot of really violent activity.
		And then after another five and a half years, it builds up, and the dipole field is re-established, but typically it's re-established upside down from what it was.
		So if it started with the north magnetic field at the north end of the sun, then 11 years later, the north magnetic field would be at the south end of the sun.
		And then another 11 years, and it would die off and then build back up and be up there again.
		Now this leads automatically to the idea of that the planet also, particularly Earth, goes through dipole reversals, and historically it's gone through probably 200 of them, or at least 200.
unidentified		And when you say that, you refer, Charles, to a pole shift.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, except for we don't want to confuse the idea of pole shift.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes people think of a pole shift as like the planet turning upside down.
unidentified		No, the magnetic north becomes south and so forth.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		and that would be a reversal.
		But there also is a...
		And that's called just an excursion because it made an excursion from being the north up to the north pole that died off and then built back up again.
		And now we don't see the sun doing that, but there's no reason why it probably couldn't go through an excursion.
		The reason is because we see stars, for example, very large stellar systems, HH30, which you can take a look on the website, which is a stellar jet system.
		And it goes through primarily excursions.
		It does go through a complete reversal occasionally, but most of the time it dies off, then builds back up in the same direction that it was.
		So, you know, it actually can go either way.
		Now, the Earth has made, well, according to the geologic record, probably about 171 dipole reversals from ore excursions from the period known as the Jurassic.
		And each time that it has had a dipole reversal.
		There's been a tremendous amount of geotectonic activity on the Earth, tremendous amount of seafloor spreading.
		And in general, now it's really interesting that each time it goes through a dipole reversal that we have seafloor spreading.
		And I don't know that people have made the connection that instead of the fact that the seafloor, now if we get hot magma that comes up, a crack appears, this hot magma comes up on the seafloor, then it cools, and as it cools down through what's called the Curie temperature, it records the current magnetic field.
		So what we have is we have these stripes where we have these alternating stripes where the magnetic field is north, south, north, south, north, south.
		And so we get original pairs of material that are now thousands of miles apart, which actually indicates that there's been thousands of miles of new seafloor added to the surface of the Earth.
		So what we wanted to find out, and what I think primarily was, wanted to know what causes a dipole reversal on our planet.
		And I think for years I knew that there was something that would cause a dipole reversal, but we hadn't known enough about the structure of the magnetic field to even understood why it went through that.
		Now, over the years, though, I've had some success and developed a model which is basically a donut-shaped magnetic field, and it has actually two concentric shells of doughnuts.
		And actually, our magnetic field really conforms to this really well.
		It's an exact model.
		But I just, for years, I really didn't know what stimulated the fact that could cause a current reversal or the current needed to actually rotate 90 degrees.
		And so if you just imagine a ring current, which is just a current going in a circle, now all of a sudden if you decide to have that current vector rotate 90 degrees, well then the current is flowing in a completely different direction.
		And when it flows in that direction, the dipole field, you actually have a dipole field when you have a ring current.
		But as soon as you rotate the current vector 90 degrees, you no longer have a dipole.
		So the question was, what causes that?
		What causes it to happen?
		And it turns out that going over research by a Nobel laureate by the name of Hans Alphane, who won a Nobel Prize in 1970, and another fellow by the name of J.D. Lawson, they discovered that in free space, in a plasma, that there was a maximum current density.
		And it became known as the Alphen-Lawson limit.
		And what takes place during that current density, when it's reached, is that the current vector actually rotates 90 degrees.
unidentified		All right.
		Now, you want to be careful not to lose people here.
		What is this leading to?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		This leads to the fact that if the current becomes, if the current, let's say the Earth's magnetic field is actually generated by a ring current, or consists of a ring current, which then makes the magnetic field.
		Okay, now if you can get something to cause that current density to go up past a certain limit, which we'll call that Alpha-Mossum limit, then the current vector rotates.
		And as soon as it rotates, then the magnetic field of the Earth shuts down.
		In fact, it actually collapses toward the core of the planet, and we get a very strong current vector that goes from the north hole of the planet to the south, so to speak.
unidentified		So for a period of time, there is no magnetic field as we know it now.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		There actually is one, but it is collapsed, and we don't have a north or a south.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		In fact, the magnetic field actually goes around the Earth and in other words, it goes like east and west instead of north and south.
		And it no longer diverges or converges to a pole.
		And consequently, it's not even actually measurable at that time.
unidentified		It would be an interesting time.
unidentified		Compasses would just sort of wander.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		Because there'd be no dipole.
unidentified		Right.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Now, at best, they might point east and west, but that would never tell you where you were.
		Of course, they'd always point east and west, at best, if, in fact, there was the slightest divergence on the field.
		But mathematically, there would be no divergence, and consequently, you wouldn't even have evidence of the field.
unidentified		Now, why would it be interesting or dangerous not to have a magnetic field?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because at this time, right through the core.
		Now, what we're going to do is look at the sun as a model.
		And the sun, and what my model shows is that exactly when the dipole field rotates, when the current vector rotates 90 degrees, then instead a very powerful current vector develops right through the core of the Earth.
		And so in the core of the Earth, you have a really super dense current.
		Now, well, the very same thing happens on the Sun.
		And the evidence that the Sun has a really powerful current vector right through its core is the fact that it generates these huge magnetic loops that come popping out on the surface.
		And these magnetic loops, where they intersect the surface, are sunspots.
		And these are very, very energy-dense phenomena.
		And when these things collide and they collapse, they release catastrophic amounts of energy.
		Now, what's dangerous here, or not, you know, it's not I'm going to say it's dangerous, but what we can do is we can look at the sun and we say, here's our model of what happens to a dipole field when the current vector rotates 90 degrees and develops a very strong poloidal current.
		And so we watch the sun, and when that happens, the sun becomes exceedingly violent.
		Now, that indicates that if this happens to the Earth, that the Earth is going to become very, very violent as well.
unidentified		Our normal protection from the Sun is the magnetic field, correct?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right, that's right.
		The magnetic field of the Sun, now the Sun emits, in fact, the Sun produces great big magnetic bubbles that are actually closed loops.
		And if you look on that website, I included a Hubble shot, not a Hubble shot, but some shots of the Sun showing a big magnetic loop that's pulling loose from the Sun, and it's called a coronal mass ejection.
		But this is a closed loop system.
		Now, these come out and they head toward the Earth.
		So now the other thing that comes toward the Earth, of course, are very strong proton flares.
		But typically we have this magnetic field that's sitting around the Earth.
		And as soon as a bunch of particles from the flare hits the magnetic field, the magnetic field, it almost like it, well, it sends the protons one direction around the magnetic field, the electrons the other direction, and it just really boosts up the ring current.
		The magnetic field, in fact, expands then.
		So it acts like a giant particle that's going to a superexcited state.
		And when it's, so, so there's this natural feedback mechanism that protects us from the normal ravages, I would say, of solar flares and coronal mass ejections.
		So when a coronal mass ejection hits the Earth, same thing.
		It basically, the current density of the ring current of the Earth gets boosted up.
		Magnetic field increases in size.
		And of course, at that time, the atmosphere expands a little bit.
unidentified		Yes.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		And it's not a tremendous expansion, but it's an expansion that, you know, basically what happens is it causes low Earth orbit satellites to run into atmosphere that they never ran into before, and they begin decaying their orbits.
unidentified		Now that is very, very, very interesting.
		And the reason I say it's interesting is because of the program we did yesterday.
		Our current Mars mission is a cheaper, faster kind of deal.
		Maybe not faster, but certainly cheaper.
		And the way they're going to get this satellite to go into orbit about Mars is to do something called arrow braking.
		Richard was talking about that yesterday.
		Now that means as you approach Mars, you begin to dip into the atmosphere a little bit at a time.
		And as you do, of course, it slows the spacecraft until they finally achieve the orbit that they want.
		And what they just found out is that, according to Richard, the atmosphere of Mars has just about doubled, actually doubled, and it put that spacecraft in jeopardy.
		Now, the only reason I can imagine the atmosphere would in effect double was because it was getting smacked by energy from the sun in the process you just described.
		Hold it right there, Charles.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		I'm Mark Skagel and Stan Deo.
		Charles, in the interest of time here, if we can, your basic belief, if I understand it correctly, is that eventually we are going to get hit with one of these massive ejective from the sun that is going to cause a collapse of the Earth's magnetic field.
		Now, in Star Trek, it's kind of like suddenly your shields are down.
		Our magnetic field goes to zero.
		And then you believe we would be hit then by, or vulnerable to, sun flares and other ejecta that would come from the sun, which basically you have said, well, I'll let you tell the audience what effect you think that would have on Earth, should that occur.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, primarily, you know, the first thing that happens is that the sun gets hit by a very large CME or coronal mass ejection from the sun.
		Right.
		That drives the current density of the magnetotoroid up past the Alpha-Moss unlimited, causes the current vector to rotate 90 degrees, and the field collapses toward the core of the Sun, or to the core of the planet.
		Right.
		Now what happens in the core, then there's a very, very powerful current vector through the core of the Earth.
		And when that happens, large magnetic loop systems are going to start coming out on the surface of the Earth, just like they do on the Sun.
unidentified		Okay?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now the collision and the collapse.
		Now there's two things here.
		Number one is that you correctly pointed out we no longer have that Starship Trek shield.
		And so we are subject to future incursions of coronal mass ejections and solar flares that we previously had protection against.
		But that's not the most pressing danger immediately, which presents a lot of problems in and of itself.
		But the primary thing happens are these big magnetic loops that start coming out all over the surface of the Earth.
		And if we follow the Sun's pattern, now the Sun has a pattern, that typically these magnetic loops start appearing about 30 degrees north latitude or 30 degrees south latitude, and then they begin moving toward the poles.
		Now occasionally they will collide and collapse.
		And when they collide, and the collapse then will catastrophically release the energy that's contained in those loops.
		And on the Sun, when it occurs on the Sun, these are the most violent events in the entire solar system, and they're just catastrophically violent.
unidentified		All right, what would that mean for us?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That means that if the same thing happens on the Earth, we will produce, the collapse of these loops will produce energy release, which will be some of those loops, if they're, you know, part of them are above the, you know, up in, you know, because they come out from the core of the Earth.
		And so you would say they extend over the surface of the Earth a bit.
		So we'll get atmospheric explosions.
		We'll get the release of energy subsurface, which means that will engender probably Richter-10 plus Earth movements.
		And a Richter-10 Earth movement, if you thought of a Richter-10 ground movement occurring, say, 30 miles away from you, then it would create a ground wave that would be like somebody snapping a blanket, which means that by the time it got to you, it could throw cars 100 feet into the air.
		So we're talking about, no, so for 500 miles around such an epicenter, or maybe even more, fundamental fault lines that are everywhere that are building upstream will all probably be jarred into releasing.
		So we'll get this primary earthquake, which is unlike it's not a fault line movement earthquake, but actually an energy loop collapse earthquake.
		And then that will produce fault line earthquakes.
		And so we're going to get earthquakes all over for perhaps a thousand mile radius from that and very violent ones.
		So that's the first thing.
		When this occurs at sea, then it's going to generate very large tsunamis.
		And let's say that we start with a tsunami that occurs in the South Indian Ocean, which I pointed out last time.
		And there's, I think, a map of it on the website, at least on my website, which you can link to from yours, right?
		And it shows these waves.
		And of course, if it travels up the Bay of Bengal, at the head of the Bay of Bengal is the Ganges floodplain.
		And so the topology of the ocean floor as the water shallows out, turns out when a tsunami starts, you know, as it comes up towards shallower and shallower water, then the height of the wave actually builds up.
unidentified		It's bigger and bigger.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		So if we started with a wave that was, say, 500 feet high, 300 or 400 miles or 1,000 miles south in the Bay of Bengal, or in the ocean south of the Bay of Bengal, by the time that it came ashore at the Ganges floodplains, it would probably be about a mile high.
		This would go inland, and it would go inland probably as far as Dhaka.
		It would go inland certainly over Calcutta.
		And that particular region happens to be the most heavily populated area in the world.
		It's like 1,320 people per square mile.
		And you could estimate that it would probably kill over 100 million people in a single day.
		That's what we call a catastrophic result of this dipole reversal.
unidentified		All right.
		Or otherwise known as a pole shift.
		Why do you think we're close to it now?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, because the sun is going into cycle 23, and typically, you know, solar scientists are often divided about, you know, how the solar cycles are going to go.
		But typically, odd-numbered cycles following a very large even-numbered cycle are always, the odd-numbered cycles are always bigger.
		Now, 22, cycle 22, was the largest ever seen.
		So by that logic, cycle 23 could exceed the current record holder, which for an odd-numbered cycle was 19.
		So the idea is that when we have these intense cycles, it causes, like I said, expansion of the upper atmosphere.
		The other thing that occurs is that we have lots of solar flares.
		And then a super increase, this is when the sun is becoming very, very, very active.
		And it starts producing a lot of coronal mass ejections.
		And so we could say that any time the sun enters a phase where it produces a lot of coronal mass ejections, then the Earth becomes even more in a state of danger.
		So all we need to do is be hit by one or a one-two punch of a couple of large coronal mass ejections.
		And we've already been hit by a couple of them this year, and one of them was one of the biggest ones that the Earth had ever been hit by.
		But, you know, so the idea is that we approach, and we're not even close to, we're starting to get hit by them now.
		And we've got about three years to go before we, three to three and a half years or so to go before we hit the peak of cycle 23.
		So the idea is that we're going to be hit by more and more coronal mass ejections.
		And in that process, the chances are very high that we're going to be hit by one that's going to be strong enough to cause the collapse of the dipole field and make it go through an excursion north.
unidentified		See you down and then all the rest of the horrible stuff that would follow.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And so then the second thing that happens after you get the earthquakes and the tsunamis, which are going to kill lots of people, and you know, most of the surface of the earth is water, so we're going to see a lot of these loop collapses occur in water, which are going to generate a lot of tsunamis.
		And that means coastal cities everywhere are really subject to some level of inundation in the event of a tsunami.
		Places that we never thought as being in danger of tsunamis were going to be absolutely inundated and probably wiped off the map.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		But once this magnetic field is down, to sum up, if we were then hit by a large ejector, what would be the result of that?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the result of that is that coronal mass ejections, we're just learning a lot about them, but the one thing that we do know is that they're a structured phenomena, that they are a toroidal structure, that they hang together, that they don't just continue to disperse.
		But the fact is the physics of these structures indicate that they stay fairly coherent.
		It means that they don't, after they emitted from the Sun, we have no reason to believe that they get any bigger.
		In fact, there's a good chance that they'll probably compact a little bit.
		And so, now the thing that a coronal mass ejection, if it was just a big blob, an amorphous blob hitting the Earth, then it might raise the temperature of the atmosphere here and there a little bit.
		And of course, the impact would be over in just a few minutes, anywhere from 2 to 12 minutes.
		But in fact, coronal mass ejections actually have current vectors within them where there's very concentrated currents, which means that if the Earth intersects a section of the current vector on a coronal mass ejection, you could get localized heating that actually could set forests on fire, that would actually even melt some rocks.
		I mean, it could be that severe.
		I mean, the scorching could be so severe, but it's not going to cover the whole earth.
		It's going to be probably pretty localized within, you know, probably within a few square miles, the primary damage, and then outward as much as 1,000, or let's say, you know, a region might be affected that might be as broad as, say, a million square miles, where the temperature would go up briefly enough to wilt crops.
		In some places, set forests on fire.
		And if people are outside, they're certainly going to have to have on Sunblock 10,000 if they're going to live through that.
		People, oddly enough, if you're in a house, you know, it might fire the shingles, but if you're in a house, unless you were at a region where the current vector was intersecting the Earth, then you're going to get cooked no matter what.
		But if you were in a house and it was just a normal corona mass ejection and it was just a kind of a broadspread heating, the temperature might rise 100 degrees or 200 degrees in just a couple of moments, but then it would be over just a few minutes.
		And so if you're in a house or in some protected area, you actually could live through it with no problem.
unidentified		Okay, and as I said the last time you were on the program, Israeli scientists actually believe that the dinosaurs were killed not by this KT event that they think hit the Yucatan, but rather by exactly what you just described.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no question about it.
		I think that scientists have liked to think that they see that there was some catastrophic events that knocked off, that killed a lot of the dinosaurs and that killed a lot of the flora and fauna at various times.
		And these are just precisely the phenomena that fit the bill.
		And not only that, these phenomena look like they've been recorded in ancient history.
unidentified		Yes, well, here's another thing that bothers me about all of this.
		I had Father Malachi Martin on the other night.
		Well, actually, go back before that.
		I had Ed Dames on, the remote viewer, who suggested that this is exactly what's going to occur.
		He thinks around 1998.
		I had Father Malachi Martin on the other night, and he said an event is coming in 98 that is going to result in the deaths of many, many people.
		And I thought, gee, that's a lot like exactly what Charles Kagle said.
		And we're beginning to get a little bit too much synchronicity for my taste.
		And so I wanted Stan to hear all of this.
		Stan, there you go.
		That's kind of the basic rundown of what Charles believes is coming.
		What do you think?
		Oh, I couldn't agree more.
		In fact, I think he could have said a lot more even.
		You know, given time, there's a heap of other things about to happen as well.
		When is kind of a guessing game in anybody's opinion, but certainly the development of earthquake patterns and magma movements on the Earth at the moment indicate we're going to have activity at Mammoth by April next year, significant activity.
		I mean, already this year we've had 4,000 or 5,000 earthquakes under the resurgent dome, and they are watching it very closely.
		Japan is certainly at threat at the moment if our thermal changes are correct, and we can see seismic events taking place in Kamchatka, just north of there as you recorded or reported a while ago about that 7.6 quake.
		These things were all on our 4 to 9 December forecast for potential trouble spots from the thermal changes in the sea surface temperature.
		The volcanoes are all linked into this same process.
		In fact, I think when Charles was talking about that loop or these toroidal currents that would come with this magnetic bubble that comes at the Earth or this torus, this could also induce electrical differentials between the upper atmosphere and the surface.
		And we could have tremendous lightning storms without clouds, just lightning out of the clear blue sky.
		And these could ignite dry forests and crop areas and start massive fires.
		Holy smokes.
		Pardon?
		I said, holy smokes.
		I was envisioning giant lightning strikes with no clouds.
		Well, yesterday on our news here in Perth, as I was telling you off air, we were where we live in the little scarp hills looking over Perth toward the Indian Ocean.
		We had fires start here, and they weren't sure whether they were set by someone or accidentally started, but it came within a mile of the house here, and we were preparing to evacuate because it was going to burn us out.
		Because very strong winds, atypical winds, have been blowing up the hill and drying the trees and forest and everything.
		And then the news came on and said, look, we're going to have some storms in the next week, and the lightning may ignite these things we may have some horrific fires up there so everybody start doing this to your homes to prepare and so we've all been running through the the real exercise here not not for play for real and in the eastern states of Australia the lightning storms have been setting fires and some some people have been going out and helping it we think but tremendous bushfires and forest fires over there just wiping out lots and
		lots of land right now as we speak.
		So if you get lightning with dry conditions anywhere, it's going to be quite catastrophic in just that respect.
		You have felt for some time, Stan, and have been warning people that something big is coming.
		Charles Cagle is doing the same thing, and I would imagine that you both would agree on precautions that people should be taking.
		you know
		it depends on whether you're talking like physical preparations there's certainly a number of very practical things people can do and like he was talking about with the 10,000 rated skin block cream that's obviously that's a joke but seriously the the damage to our skin and eye is just going to be horrific and if we do see this solar event that we're we're talking about here approach or happen the last thing people want to do is go outside and look up and say oh look the sun's
		because they'll be blind as soon as they look at it.
		And so there are practical things there that we can suggest, but we can go beyond that because people sitting here listening to this, and certainly those who go to our websites and start to see what we've got up there, the hard photos and evidence, are going to probably feel a little bit of panic in the pit of their stomach somewhere.
		We have to also address the psychological, the spiritual preparation of people as well, in my opinion, because otherwise people are just going to run off half-cocked, frightened, and not know what to do.
		Well, here is an area where I believe you both agree.
		You both have a pretty good Christian grounding.
		Charles, would you agree with that?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		I would say yes, that in fact what's coming is the result of basically what it is, is God is getting ready to tread his winepress.
		Most people don't think of God as being so violent or so vengeful.
		But in fact, if you read the scriptures, people would recognize what God said he's going to do and what he said he's going to do.
		He says that I'm going to tread the people in mine anger.
		And so we get this picture of God and it says, why is your garments all red?
		And he says, because you look like someone who's been in the winepress.
		And he says, because I have tread the people in mine anger.
		And so we get this picture of God that he's got on these garments that are all red.
		And we just kind of think of them as being red.
		But in fact, what they are, they're stained with the blood of the rebellious all over the world.
		Charles, what should we tell people?
unidentified		I'll tell you what, gentlemen, we're at the top of the hour.
		So that's the logical point to pick up on.
		My guests are Charles Cagle, who is telling us there is a catastrophic event on the way from our sun with regard to our magnetic field, which will collapse unto itself.
		In effect, leaving our shields down, there will be gigantic earth movements.
		There will be very large tsunamis.
		In other words, folks, rock and roll time.
		And, of course, Stan Dale in Australia, who's been warning of similar events from a slightly different angle of study.
		But the two have a remarkably great deal in common, I believe.
		And in this hour, I'm going to kind of let the conversation go between the two of them and see what we come up with.
		All right.
		Continue with this experiment.
		Charles Cagle and Stan Dale from Australia.
		Back as my guest gentleman.
		I would like to hear an interactive dialogue between the two of you as you continue to meet each other.
		And kind of hear where it goes and what you recommend and what you both feel.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		You should have played what we talked about during the break.
unidentified		Well, then let's do a replay of that.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Stan.
unidentified		All right.
		Charles, there were just a zillion questions I had to ask.
		I'm sure you had a few to ask of me.
		We've covered a lot of emails before we went on to the show.
		But I think we both agree that at some time in the near future, and kind of like the Hopis say, soon, without exact date, but soon, these things are going to be upon us.
		And certainly an El Eno effect is upon us now.
		And there are more earthquakes of a heavier nature occurring.
		But these are nothing compared to what's going to happen when the judgments of the revelation and the Bible start, in our opinion, anyway.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Because the earthquakes that are referred to there are called great earthquakes.
		Huge.
		And the idea is that there are going to be earthquakes that are at a level that have not been seen before.
unidentified		Well, there are also going to be earthquakes that no matter where you are, in India or in an island somewhere or wherever, you'll know when they've occurred.
		You won't need the Internet or radio program to tell you.
		You'll be hearing it.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		Yeah.
		And speaking of islands, one of the things I mentioned to you was, you know, the other thing that occurs during the period when the current vector is going through, is the strongest in the core of the Earth, just like it's strong in the core of the sun.
		When it's strong in the core of the sun, it produces these big magnetic loop systems, which are basically giant particles.
		in a sense and and so one of the things that's going to occur right through the core of the earth is a tremendous amount of mass production and that's why the earth in fact has expanded that's why we have all these stretch marks all over the earth's surface throughout all the oceans and so the first thing that's going to happen or you know I would say accompanying the the fact of these emergency these magnetic loops and their collapse that produces earthquakes.
		What also is going on in the core is a tremendous amount of mass production is going on.
unidentified		Charles, when you say mass production, if I understand, well, I think we both kind of have the same idea about toroidal structures forming, nuclear structures and stellar structures, whatever.
		When you say mass increase, are you saying like treat the Earth as one large atom, let's say, and that that is taking on energy and ergo, its mass is increasing?
		Is that the way you're implying that?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		No, what I'm saying is that in a way that has never, you know, that is new, this is a new process or it's not a well understood process until now, that in fact, when you get really dense current elements, the dense current elements can generate neutrons.
		Well, what we have going through the core of the Earth at that time is a super dense current element, which means it'll be producing neutrons by the hundreds of millions of tons per second.
		So this is actually a non-conservative process.
		When it turns out, the universe ultimately is non-conservative.
		Now that goes against everything that is taught in modern science, and that's one of the reasons why there's this tremendous debate in geology right now and why, you know, standard geologists hate the guts of anybody who mentions the idea of Earth expansion.
		But the fact is, is that the evidence is overwhelming.
		Of course, it is.
		Pardon?
unidentified		Of course it is.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's all the, you know, the planet has grown.
		And so where did the mass come from?
		Well, it's being created in the core.
		And when that occurs, you know, what's going to happen to the surface of the Earth is it's going to have a lot of lithospheric tension.
		Now, where the tension is, rocks yield under tension.
		They don't yield very well under compression, but they do yield really well under tension.
		And so that means that it's sort of like blowing up a balloon.
		You're producing more mass in the core.
		That meets tension on the surface.
		And wherever there's hot basements for areas like, say, around island chains, for example, the Hawaiians.
unidentified		You believe the Hawaiian islands are going to sink, don't you?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		They're going to sink, and they're going to sink so fast they're not going to be able to get the people off of them.
unidentified		Well, what about the Aleutians?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		The Aleutians will go down.
		The Aleutians will go down because they have hot basements.
		I suspect that New Zealand very well could begin to subside.
unidentified		Well, believe this or not, Charlie, I didn't discuss this with you, but I put it on my website.
		I've had two dreams about New Zealand this year, which are both of them showing New Zealand and the North Island subsiding, going down as a result of a tremendous volcanic process underneath the Taupo volcanic system there.
		And we flew over to New Zealand to check it out and found out that, yes, that is a possibility, even though they're not touting it widely because it might hurt tourism.
		Actually, I believe that you made some statements when you were there, Stan, and somebody in New Zealand got angry with you, didn't they?
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, they got over it.
		In fact, they got on the internet and had another go at me when I got home, and I explained to them what the reasons for my opinion was and the technical side of it.
		And now then they report every time there's a hiccup over there, they email me and say, look, we just had a rubble.
		What do you think?
		So they didn't keep their anger long.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, what's the first thing?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		They say when somebody tells you you're going to die, you go through these stages, and one of them is anger, then denial, and then, you know...
unidentified		I hadn't thought about that, Charles.
		That's exactly what their reaction has been.
		Yeah.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, if you tell people, look, you're in deep trouble, the doctor walks in and he says, look, I'm looking at these X-rays, and you're going to die.
		Well, nobody wants to hear that.
		First instance, you pull out a gun, you want to shoot the doctor.
		It's like, let me get a second opinion.
unidentified		Charles, now listen, I'm concerned as a Christian fellow.
		I don't know you are too.
		There are a lot of good folks out there that are Christians that listen to Art Bell's show, and they email us and talk to us a lot about their needs and wants and their uncertainties as to what to do in this time.
		And Holly and I have set up this part of our website that is the practical things as far as emergency things you can carry on your back or in your car or whatever to get to a place of shelter should some of these emergencies, the earthquakes and all that kind of stuff, wipe out your home or your town or wherever you are.
		These are practical things that we put in there for those who actually do survive the first event.
		Those who die during that event, and I don't think there's any King's X believers in Jesus or anything else that says you can't die during that first event, for those who die, they have to be more prepared with the spiritual side of their life, whether they, A, believe in God, B, have made a contract with God or accepted the salvation through Jesus.
		These things are important things that should be addressed, in my opinion.
		I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		In fact, I was looking at the list that Holly, your wife, made of all these things.
		I've made up similar lists and I've distributed them to a few people.
		They said, what should we do?
		Well, the first thing is that, like I said, avoid obvious places of destruction.
		I wouldn't hesitate to fly out to Hawaii and enjoy it right now.
		But the minute that I hear that the dipole field is starting to go down, I'd fly out immediately.
		So there's obvious places to avoid, and one of them is Hawaii.
		Another one of them would be major coastal cities all up and down Chile and then on the east coast of South America, Rio, and any coastal cities that don't have real deep water before them,
		you're probably going to, they're going to be subject to some really tremendous tsunami damage.
		And really, there's going to be millions of people going to be swept away.
		And it'll happen faster than they can get out of there once it happens.
		Once it starts to happen, they won't be able to do it.
		So two things.
		One, you want to avoid the obvious places of destruction.
		Two, you want to have ordinary things like, let's say, filters, water filters, and that list of things like Hollywood keep, you know, candles.
		Because once the shaking starts and once up here in the northwest, Bonneville Dam is going to go down.
		And when it goes down, it's not going to be back up by a 24-hour service call.
		It'll never be back up.
		So that means the whole Northwest, including Northern California, all of Oregon, Washington, lots of parts of Idaho, they're going to be down.
		So, you know, people need to plan for seeing the infrastructure go down.
		I would really like, for example, the American Red Cross to start making, I wonder if they have in place some disaster emergency preparedness plans for some tremendous catastrophic disasters where they can project that we see the whole infrastructure collapsing, meaning roads and highways, electrical distribution systems, telephones, and whatnot.
		Andy.
unidentified		Whether they do or not, though, let me just butt in here.
		Remember about a month ago when James Witt from FEMA and Vice President Al Gore had that conference over in San Diego about the preparation for El Niño effect as disaster, and they were encouraging the individuals and the individual townships, make your own emergency plans and preparations because the government facilities cannot handle the scale of destruction that's coming.
		Do you remember that?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think, but he's referring to, you know, and he's referring to like a tremendous El Nio, and it means really, if the government can't get in and really bring a town back upon its feet after it got hit by a hurricane adequately, then you can imagine what's going to happen when the judgment of God falls upon the earth.
		Exactly, exactly.
		And which means that all these taxes that we've been paying to these guys, you know, it's like fit because they're not going to be able to help us a bit.
		They won't be able to help themselves.
		So what do people need to be?
		One, we said, you know, avoid obvious places of destruction.
		Two, you know, have some preparedness.
		You know, have some extra blankets.
		Have a good store of chopped wood if you have wood stoves.
		If you don't, buy one.
		You know, then, but on top of this, and I think maybe even primary and more to that, now is the time that men need to actually begin to call on the living God and to ask for him, start seeking his face.
		Because until, you know, no matter what you prepare, if you aren't prepared to meet the living God, then, you know, he's going to destroy you.
unidentified		And so what it means is people model way.
		Stan?
		Well, I would say certainly I agree with what Charles has said.
		And the people that call us mad, I would say to them, if you look at the scientific evidence we give you for your logical mind and use the government facilities that we tap into and analyze the data from, if you look at all this data and still say Stan and Charles and people like it, you're mad, then I ask them, are you willing to bet your life on it and your eternal life if you believe in that afterwards?
		And that would be how I would end the conversations with a question.
		I said, you know, I'm not willing to bet my life on that.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, but the fact is, is a lot of people are, because the fact is, there's millions, hundreds of millions of people who absolutely reject God.
		And I understand, you know, that if I give a prophetic warning and say, this is what, you know, hear the word of God, America, hear the word of God, world.
		You know, the time now is to repent and to come to the living God and offer him the only acceptable sacrifice, which is a broken heart and a contrite spirit.
		People are going to say, oh, you know, you're just a nut.
		But on the other hand, the fact is, is a lot of people hear that.
		And the reason they hear it, because they know it's true.
		And they know it's true.
		And I'll tell you, if you're not prepared, you know, because the point is that this isn't just a mechanical wind-up thing that's just going to be turned loose.
		You know, it's not just a series of natural events that we're going to have to face.
		And whoever makes it through, well, then they're lucky.
		And whoever doesn't, well, then they were unlucky.
		It's not that at all.
		And it never was that.
		And for 3,000 years or more, it's always been taught and prophesied by the servants of God that it's not that type of a process.
		It's a process where...
unidentified		Those who don't will be swept away in fire and earthquake and destruction?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		That's what the Word of God says.
unidentified		Stan, is that the way you think it'll come down?
		Yes, sir.
		But don't ask me to say which are the righteous, because that's God's decision alone.
		But if you're not sure, it's time to examine yourself.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Sure, yeah.
		And I think that, you know, I think this is something, you know, that people have to, you know, they need to start dealing with.
		You know, but it's really interesting.
		There's other things that we can do besides, you know, we need to make plans for what the world's going to be like after that.
unidentified		Oh, and I really want to interject a question, Charles, for you, because you're coming down so heavily on the religious side of it.
		If the righteous will live and the unrighteous will die.
		Then what good giving advice on preparation to those who are not righteous in the manner you suggest?
		Because they won't survive anyway?
		Or am I getting it wrong?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Actually, the fact is, here's what good it'll do: there's a small hour of mercy left.
		And that I know for a fact.
		There's a small hour of mercy.
		There's a small window here.
		And in fact, and so God is extending his mercy, but it's not, you know, it's closing fast.
		So, you know, what does righteousness mean?
		It means that you, you know, as we talk about righteousness, I'm not so much concerned with righteousness at this point because that's not something that a man has or earns himself, but it's something that, in fact, the scriptures say that God gives men.
		But he gives them for the fact that they have clean hands and a pure heart.
		And then it says they'll receive the righteousness of the God of their salvation.
		Because they don't have any of their own.
		We're all filthy rags according to the scriptures.
		And so what it means is that there's a merciful God out there and he says, I want you to live.
		But I cannot stand seeing my people being continually vexed by the wickedness that's going on in the world.
unidentified		Stan, you talk about, I know you believe a lot of things that are very similar, but you rarely talk about them as Charles does.
		Do you generally agree with what you're hearing?
		Oh, most certainly.
		In fact, look, Art, I would have talked about them on your show before, but I just didn't want to offend you because I didn't know what your rules for the program were.
		My rules are I don't have rules.
		Well, I'll tell you something.
		There have been times then that I've wished that I had said more on your show, and I'd wished that I had perhaps even encouraged people in the United States, particularly to organize a prayer time after the show is over and to pray for America and its people and the people who don't know what's happening that they can find out in time.
		I might be 15,000 kilometers away, but I'm still an American.
		And Holly and I both are, and our heart is still there.
		And the good book does say that God wishes that no one would perish, that all would be saved.
		And there have been times that I just wanted to tell you, Art, a number of things and say, look, don't worry unnecessarily.
		The answers are here and tell you where to go look it up and things like that.
		But I just didn't want to step on your toes, that's all.
		Oh, you're not stepping on my toes.
		As I say, I really don't have rules.
		And I sensed last week, after a long time of speaking with you both, that you both generally agreed on what's coming.
		And you both seem hesitant, on the one hand, to tell people what's coming and then to attach it to your religious beliefs on the other.
		Now, Charles, not so much so, but you stand more so.
		I'm not offended.
		If that's what you believe, that's what you believe.
		And what I hear you both saying is basically you both think we are in the final days.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's no question about it.
		In fact, God says, look for these signs.
		And the signs are coming upon us.
		You know, the fact is, is that, you know, I started off life as a fisherman.
unidentified		Actually, the bottom of the hour is coming upon us, so we're going to break here.
		But, Stan, do you agree with that generally?
		Last days?
		Oh, most certainly.
		Absolutely.
		All right.
		Both of you hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		Very humorous to observe the responses coming in, some in complete agreement, some very, very angry at both of you and or me for presenting all of this.
		And for example, let me read you one here.
		Art, how can anyone logically love and serve a mass-murdering, blood-soaked parent God?
		He sounds more like a devil.
		Can I address that?
		Sure.
		Okay.
		Now, I think the problem with that person is they don't understand, from the language we've used here on the show, why this is happening.
		It is not purely just to be mean and terrible and whatever.
		It is the resolution of a conflict that occurred a long time ago in the heavens between the rebellion, you know, like the Star Wars type movie, you know, with the Empire and all that kind of stuff.
		There was a rebellion and Satan rebelled against God.
		And a third part of the beings there, according to the scriptures, rebelled.
		And rather than continue a war of rebellion in the heavens, they created a virtual reality in which we now live and are playing out the parts of people or beings in the heavens as they would have behaved in that nice environment had the rebellion been allowed to continue and people broken off from God and done their own thing.
		This way it doesn't destroy the real universe.
		And what we have here, as the scriptures say, is not reality.
		Our science even is foolishness because it is built upon rules set in motion in a virtual reality environment.
		The whole earth and everything we know is set up just for one purpose, to resolve a conflict in the heavens and to show God is righteous in his decision.
		So when this guy gets worried about, you know, God murdering or killing and all this kind of stuff, it is not, God is not doing that unilaterally.
		Those people who are getting killed chose to let that happen who are in rebellion.
		The people who are hungry and starving all this did not necessarily choose, but they are not.
		The suffering in the world is not to go without reward.
		And people all over the world will be given a chance in this world or the next to accept God's will.
		They'll all be given a fair go.
		I don't know how it will be done, but the scripture does say that.
		So, You know, I can understand why this guy, whoever sent that fax, is concerned because it looks so bloodthirsty and everything, but it's not really.
		It's only because we're looking at our environmental suits, these bodies we live in, as the only thing that there is in life.
		Once that's gone, we don't exist.
		If you have that viewpoint, then I'm sure that it's easy to think that God is being unfair, but I don't think so.
		Okay.
		Here's another one.
		When all these earth changes occur as being suggested by your two guests, what are the environmentalists going to do?
		Since they seem to blame man for all the problems with the atmosphere and the polluted environment, are they going to sue God in the world court for destroying the environment and taking most of them with it?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of an interesting question because it's sort of, you know, it has the same spirit behind it that the first question was, which is that these people have no concept of what God, what the whole plan, you know, I want to say what part of the word God don't you understand?
		You know, it means that he's sovereign.
		And, you know, what he's doing is perfectly righteous.
		And in fact, you know, the people who make such comments about blaming God, well, you know, the scriptures are full of that.
		They said they're going to curse God.
		You know, for example, when it says, when the fourth angel pours out his vial under the sun, unto him will give in power to scorch the earth.
		And men are going to blaspheme God.
unidentified		All right.
		I'll tell you what.
		For either one or both of you, let us take a few calls and see what we get.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Charles Cagle and Stan Dale.
		Hi.
		Hi, Mr. Arbell.
		Where are you?
		I am in Santa Rosa, California.
		And what do you think about all this?
		Well, you know what I was curious about was, and it's kind of an interesting point, the religious aspect of it, I can't get into too much, but the magnetic pole theory, I was curious if you'd found any more information about the pyramid that was found on the North Pole.
		That was Alaska, sir.
		And that was reported by Dan Rather, and we're trying to get a photograph of it.
		Somebody sent a photograph of it, and I'm sorry to say that it was in a format, sit format, that I can't decipher.
		We're still trying to get it deciphered.
		Anybody who's got a picture of that blue pyramid would love to have it.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Charles Cagle and Stan Dale.
		Hello.
		Good morning, Art.
		Where are you?
		I'm in Eugene, Oregon, not too far from Mr. Cagle.
		Okay.
		I guess I tread that fine line between believer and skeptic.
		I've been listening to your show for a long time since you were broadcasting out of the Union Plaza Hotel at KEWN.
		Yes.
		And I've listened to a lot of your guests, many of them coming from various disciplines talking about earth changes.
		I'm looking at a map of Gordon Michael scallions here, and he was predicting California by the end of 1997 would be a fragmented series of islands in the United States.
		No, no, no, only if a certain series of earthquakes completed.
		Correct.
		You've got to say the whole thing, and they never did complete.
		And they never did complete.
		So, you know, I have to say that I have no problem believing that we may be in for radical changes both globally and politically.
		However, the skeptic side of me, you know, wants to see that kind of proof.
		And guests that claim to have their methods down to a science, I guess I just want to see.
		All right, all right, then, all right, then the question might be, what proof would either one of you offer that this process is ongoing?
		Is it faith or is it science or is it both?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that, you know, what I have offered in a sense of I have, on my internet site, you'll see that I've offered some, basically it's the foundations for a new and apocalyptic physics.
		And it's, you know, you could check it out.
		I don't, you know, I have no difficulty with getting into a discussion with people over the finer points of modern physics.
		No one's ever known what it is that causes dipoles to reverse.
		Now I've discovered it.
		You know, but except I'm not going to tell you I discovered it.
		I'm going to say that God revealed it to me.
unidentified		All right.
		Stan, what about you?
		I know you feel, as Charles does, that these are the last days.
		Do you think you can support it with what you're seeing scientifically?
		Oh, yes, I do.
		In fact, I forgot to mention this earlier.
		On our website, the Australian one, right now we have an Art Bell Listener's spot plugged in.
		So if they go to that site and click onto the pictures, they can see, if your listener does that, if he's on the internet, he can see maps, charts, images, stuff we've produced stuff, NASA's produced stuff, Lockheed's produced, you know, all this stuff is right there on this solar discussion.
		And you can see, it's not just us, we're gathering data and reports from scientists who have, you know, no discussion about their personal beliefs other than the physics and things they're observing.
		And even these things show you that we have some very interesting times on us now getting worse.
		In fact, if you go up, you can have a look at that earthquake, or a series of earthquakes that just hit Kemchatka or East Russia.
		Normally we get about 100 earthquakes every five days, significant earthquakes across the planet.
		And when Kemchatka went just now, or that one near it, we had 250 earthquakes just bang all of a sudden.
		And we've shown those.
		These are scientific data supporting the increase in earthquake in diverse places, as the scripture said, would announce the beginning of the end of this age, or the tribulation period, where great stress would be upon the Earth.
		And it mentioned the Sun particularly, and it mentioned an asteroid or a comet hitting the Earth.
		It mentioned a Super big volcano that's going to blow the top right off into the sea, and the chemical reaction will take place.
		And I think I have found at least one of the potential candidates for that happening in the next year or two over in New Zealand at Taupo.
		So, you know, I'm firmly convinced in my mind that the probabilities are very high for events in the near future.
		But I reserve the right to be, you know, wrong by a year or two or whatever.
		I think certainly, as Charles would probably agree, that in this solar cycle we're in is extremely high probability of the fulfillment of the prophecies of the revelation concerning the end times and the judgment of the earth and then the beginning of a thousand-year period of peace after that.
		And the technical clues were given in many places in the Bible, and that's, I think, probably why Charles and I and people like us have gone to check out the sun or checked out earthquakes, checked out volcanoes, checked out asteroids, meteorites.
		A lot of fundamentalists would say you shouldn't be looking to science at all to try and answer these questions.
		Well, I didn't know that.
		I was just trying to be, you know, defending, if you wish, the Word of God by saying, look, the signs are here.
		I'm being a good watchman.
		In fact, I had a dream revelation that was my job, was to be one of the watchmen here that say to the people, look, when you see these signs, know that the prophecies are about to be fulfilled.
		So you feel, both of you obviously then feel reading the signs scientifically in any way you might is perfectly legitimate.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		And not only that, you know, the scripture says that the sun would be turned to darkness.
		You know, and that, you know, in a certain sense, I don't think it's a big stretch to take a look.
		And whenever the sun is going through a solar max, when we look up there and we see all kinds of sunspots, now, when it really starts getting a tremendous solar max, then we start seeing great big coronal holes begin to appear in the northern and southern limbs of the sun.
		And so, you know, I expect that what we'll see, you know, here we have this ancient observation, this ancient prophecy that says the sun will be turned to darkness.
		You know, what's that telling us?
		That's telling us, you know, as we see a sun beginning to approach a really powerful solar mass, that, you know, that the troubles are upon us.
unidentified		All right.
		Let's try it again here.
		Charles and Stan, you're West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Kim from Kennewick in Washington.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi.
		You know, your guests are scaring me a little bit, but in a way, I feel kind of good, too, because, you know, I see a lot of suffering in the world, and I hear all this stuff on the news all the time.
		It's outrageous, ugly things that happen that people do.
		And I think they're right.
		I don't think God's going to stand by and just let that happen.
		And it's not because he's so, you know, like a tyrant or anything.
		It's because we're made in his image.
		And, you know, people, I think that I'm really getting nervous, but I wanted to say that when we read, as a lot of us Catholics and Christians do, that we're made in God's image, maybe he feels we're beginning to embarrass him.
		Kind of that, yeah.
		Well, you know, he loves, serves, and honors us.
		And that's what we were made to do.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		First time caller line.
		You're on here with Charles Kagel and Stan Dale in Perth, Australia.
		Yeah, all right.
		Yes, where are you?
		This is Bruce, Nashville, Tennessee.
		Hi, Bruce.
		And now, my father has been a minister for some 40-odd years now.
		And I've been listening to this intensively.
		my only question is i'm not really what you would call a bible scholar but i am familiar with the bible where You know?
		I'm not sure.
		You mean signs as described in the Bible?
		Well, yeah, and they're, well, I don't really know what I'm trying to say, but...
		I don't believe that what they're saying has anything to do with what the scripture says.
		Come to the end of time.
		Okay, now you've said it.
		In other words, you don't believe that what they're saying represents signs of the last days.
		Is that right?
		That's what I'm saying.
		Okay.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me address this.
		You know, God, as we understand God, is a sovereign emperor of the universe.
		Now, he's declared, as far as I understand, he's declared in his wisdom that the mystery of God should at last be finished.
		Now, it's appropriate, I believe, that the mystery of God should first destroy the foundations of modern science.
		Since through science, men have sought most ardently to destroy the understanding and the knowledge of God from the world.
		So I see it in this manner that God has determined to make fools of the wise men of the world and to utterly cast them into the place of shame where they belong because they have spent their time doing everything that they can, you know, trying to actually destroy the knowledge of God from the earth.
		Now, what's God going to do?
		He's going to destroy them.
unidentified		Stan, we're going to wrap this up pretty soon, but I want you to make a kind of a final comment, too.
		And do you generally now find yourself in agreement with Charles?
		Yes, yes.
		We might discuss the pros and cons of various physics mechanisms on theory and things like that, but scripture-wise, yes.
		I think that it's time for America to the world, in fact, for people that are kind of trying to find the answers to really make contact with God urgently and get ready.
		I mean, America was built, was it not, on Christian principles and beliefs, and we kind of wandered very far afield of that in modern America.
		Well, listen, I can't say that I completely embrace what you both are saying.
		What I can say is that I try to remain somewhat objective, and I listen to you, Stan.
		I listen to Charles.
		I listen to Father Martin.
		I listen to remote viewers like Major Dames and others.
		I listen to Native Americans.
		I know, Stan, you've got Native Australians who are saying much the same sort of thing.
		So many disciplines saying the same thing deserves attention.
		And I thought that what you two were saying deserved equal time.
		Well, I appreciate that.
		That's all.
		That's very kind of you.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
		And I think that people throughout the United States and the world who hear this opportunity or they hear this call, you know, it's a call to repent.
		And it's a call, you know, this is the time to do it.
		Because there's not, you know, shortly the day will appear when, you know, they won't have opportunity to.
		So, you know, I think that that's a, you know, I think that's a great opportunity to come and to say this to millions of people who listen to this.
		And, you know, I know that we're going to run across a tremendous number of people at the same time who are going to hate this.
		And they're going to hate us for saying it.
		Anger, you bet, because they don't want to hear it.
		But you'll also find that there's a reaction, that there are people who do hear it, and as soon as they hear it, they know it's true.
unidentified		Well, what about those people, just briefly, who, for probably hundreds of years now, have marched up and down sidewalks and roads of America with signs that say, repent, the end is near.
		That's been going on for hundreds of years.
		How would you differentiate yourselves, both of you, from being a modern version of that?
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, if I'm saying the same thing, then there is no difference in the fact that they might have felt at that time that the end was near, but I can tell you that it is near.
unidentified		Okay, Stan?
		Well, I agree.
		I probably would not cram it down anybody's throat, you know, with the sign down the street and standing in the streetcar shouting at people as it went by, listening to the word of God, blah, blah, blah.
		I am more concerned with actually getting to people where they open their mind and look at the evidence and then make a conscious, rational decision for or against God at that time.
		You know, I don't believe in brainwashing anybody.
		And that's kind of how I feel.
		Sometimes people walk up with these signs and stuff.
		It does work, but I just, I wouldn't do it myself that way.
		I choose to try to get the message across and discuss with people rather than preach to them.
		Well, I think the difference between the two of you and the guy with the street sign that says repent, the end is near, is that you take both of you a scientific approach to it, which tends to anger the more intellectual who would dismiss the guy with the sign, but the two of you make him very angry.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		We make him angry because he's in rebellion.
		He's an enemy of God.
		And he doesn't like to know the fact is that God's about to destroy him and remove him off the earth.
		He doesn't want to hear that.
unidentified		All right.
		Stan, I really appreciate your being here this morning, and I assume the two of you will be in contact.
		Oh, yes.
		All right.
		Then we will do this once again in the future.
		And I would suggest everybody go up to my website, take a look at the material of Charles Cagle, take a look at the Stan Deo material.
		We've got links to all of that.
		So just go on up there and take a look.
		Gentlemen, I want to, respectively, from Australia and Oregon, thank you.
charles cagle ▲ ● ▼		God bless you.
unidentified		Thank you.
		God bless.
		Bye-bye.
		Take care all.
		All right.

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