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Nov. 18, 1997 - Art Bell
01:56:39
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Charles Cagle - Theories of the Sun
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From the high desert and the great American South, the best I bid you all good evening,
a good morning as the case may be across this great land of ours.
And welcome to another night of Coast to Coast AM.
That would be live talk radio from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the West.
All the way eastward to the Caribbean and the Virgin Islands.
South into South America.
North to the pole.
And worldwide on the internet.
This is Postcode AM and I'm Art Bell.
And we've got a very interesting guest tonight.
He is Charles Cagle.
And he is not a rocket scientist.
That was last night.
As a matter of fact, in a moment I'll fill you in on the rest of the week.
He doesn't have a bachelor's, master's, or Ph.D.
high school, of course, and then a commercial fisherman on the west coast, fish, salmon, albacore tuna off the Oregon and Washington, California coast, then king crab out of Kodiak, Alaska.
Drafted then in 1966 from Kodiak, joined the U.S.
Army, went to basic training at Fort Ord, California, then on to Officer Candidate School at Fort Knox, Kentucky.
Graduated A green second lieutenant went on to helicopter school at Fort Walters, Texas, then Hunter Army Airfield, Savannah, Georgia.
Graduated, got his wings, and went to Vietnam.
Was promoted to captain at age 22.
And I could give you so very much more, because he gave me so very much more, but Charles Kegel is a self-educated physicist, and what he has to say to you tonight ultimately may concern you, though it's nothing that you have not heard before.
Charles Kegel began investigating ball lightning, I would guess almost as a passion, and From his investigation into Ball Lightning, if my understanding is basically accurate, he developed a thesis with regard to the way our Sun works as it relates to our Earth, and what is coming as a result of that, and what is coming apparently fairly soon as a result of that,
So we'll get to Charles Cagle in a moment.
The Russians think that they have an Iraqi solution.
The Iraqis are beginning to say they're going to let the American inspectors back in just so long as they don't dominate the inspections.
So it's beginning to sound an awful lot like the Iraqis are beginning to cave in.
As more and more forces, B-52s, F-117 stealths and You name it, it's on the way.
And the Iraqis apparently concluded we were very serious, and so the UN investigation of their biological chemical program may be back on again shortly.
U-2s have flown, nothing has shot at them.
And that's kind of where that stands.
The FBI is out of the TWA-800 investigation, declaring it to be, they believe, A mechanical problem, not a criminal problem.
All right, here we go.
I believe to the state of Oregon, where I suspect it's rather rainy, here is Charles Cagle.
Charles, welcome to the program.
Thanks.
Is that where you are?
You're up in Oregon someplace?
I am.
I am.
I don't believe it's raining right now where I'm at, but it's always raining somewhere, it seems.
Well, I think on the coast of Oregon, they're getting slammed pretty well.
Power was out.
They had a lot of high winds and a bunch of rain earlier in the day, and yet another West Coast storm passes.
Anyway, Charles, it's great to have you.
I understand that your odyssey, your quest, began with an investigation of ball lightning, and I've always been, myself, very, very interested in ball lightning.
So, what got you interested in ball lightning?
Well, I read an article in 1972 In fact, it was 1972, I think it was December 14th, issue of New Scientist, which was a British publication, and the title of it was The Enigma of Ball Lightning.
I read it, and the thing that was sort of amazing was that there were 40 different theories, which automatically told me that there wasn't a great deal of consensus in the scientific world about It's a really important issue, and a lot of people didn't even believe it existed, yet it's actually been written about since the time of Aristotle.
Well, I'm not a meteorologist, so I barely even know what lightning is, but it's my understanding that regular lightning, contrary to popular belief, does not go from a cloud to the ground, but rather from the ground to the cloud.
Is that correct?
It can go either way, actually.
Really?
Yeah, but I think for a while they thought it was only one way, but it actually can traverse either direction.
All right.
Well, then the obvious first question, I guess, is what is the difference between lightning, as we have all seen it, and ball lightning?
Ball lightning, I guess you could just say, is a discharge between two points, where ball lightning is a... As people see it, they see it as typically a spherical, glowing ball.
It can be very bright.
It also can be dim enough that you can see through it.
And it is detached.
It is long-lived.
It can last anywhere from, oh, just a few fractions of a second up to, there's been cases where people have reported seeing a ball lightning last for as long as 30 minutes.
That's naturally the extreme, but typically they last 4, 5, 10 seconds.
You hear all kinds of really weird stories.
People claiming that ball lightning has gone down chimneys, come out of fireplaces, come through windows, done all kinds of really weird things.
Accurate?
Very accurate, of course.
It's really accurate.
In fact, they've killed people.
There was a fellow by the name of Richie who was reproducing one of Franklin's experiments.
Not Richie, but Richman.
He was in Paris.
There's a real neat woodcut and it shows this ball coming off his apparatus and hitting him in the head.
It killed him.
I should send you a copy of this woodcut because it's pretty You know, here it comes from the 1700s, but it does a lot of bizarre things.
I think one of the most bizarre things is, it's been known to come aboard an aircraft, come down the aisle, pass right through the plexiglass window in front of the pilots, and then go down the aisle, and about the size of a soccer ball, and then do a sudden exit stage left, right, Through the skin of the aircraft.
Passengers look out, see it bouncing along the wing until it comes to the end and drops off into space.
Oh, you're kidding!
That's an eyewitness report, you know.
Oh, no thank you.
I've had enough rough flights without ball lightning on a flight.
Oh my God.
Oh, what is... Here I guess we'll start to dip in, but I mean... I just, I can't in my own mind's eye I'm not a physicist, of course, but I can't understand what ball lightning is.
I imagine lightning as a differential or a delta between two points that is then equalized by a strike of lightning.
Boom!
And so, it doesn't seem like there's any relationship between that and what you're describing, which might come down the aisle of an aircraft, as a ball.
I mean, what the hell is that?
Well, it's a... You know, it's actually It's quite easy to describe phenomenologically in terms of a current, like a ring current, but you certainly know what a smoke ring is, right?
Sure.
I blow them all the time.
They're very non-politically correct.
Well, smoke rings have a particular rotation.
They don't rotate like a bicycle wheel.
They rotate inward.
Well, a good way of describing it is to take a tornado that's rotating, so you've got this long rotating structure, and join its ends.
Oh, I see.
I see what you're saying.
So pull a tornado into a circle, and then you have the type of current rotation that exists in ball lightning.
Now what's interesting is this generates two counter-oriented magnetic surfaces.
One on the outside of the current, Well, let me ask this.
How is it created?
I mean, we know how lightning occurs.
How is ball lightning created?
Is it created from a strike?
Associated with a strike?
You've got this big hollow place on the inside.
Let me ask this.
How is it created?
We know how lightning occurs.
How is ball lightning created?
Is it created from a strike, associated with a strike?
Is it created in midair as simply a phenomena that we're going to find out how it's done?
That's a really good question, and I think that was one that troubled me for quite a few years.
And so we just had to look at the phenomenon, what was common about all the phenomena.
But eventually, if I just cut straight to the chase, the fact is that there's a new, unrecognized rotation of a current vector.
So you have a current flowing from point A to point B, and if the current density reaches a critical current density, and it has to do it fast, then there is a rotation of the current vector 90 degrees.
And what that generates then is basically a ring current.
A ring current.
At the point of constriction.
At the point of constriction.
In other words, if you're producing a really dense current, a very tremendous discharge, like a lightning discharge, sometimes portions of that channel can become constricted.
But the process of constriction really deals with the fact that the charges are all attractively interacting with one another.
Now, this goes against what people have been saying.
You know, you have a ham operator's license, and you had to study a certain amount of electronic theory, and the underlying fundamental stone that underlies most modern physics is Coulomb's Law.
Well, it turns out that Coulomb's Law isn't actually a general case.
It's a special case.
And it only deals with charges that have lots of relative motion.
Okay, you're losing me a little.
Okay, I won't lose you.
Okay, so, does ball lightning form, for all intents and purposes, in mid-air?
Yeah, it can.
It can form straight, right in mid-air, right, you know, anywhere, practically, in a submarine.
They used to form aboard U.S.
submarines.
What?
Yeah, during World War II, they had these, basically, submarines in World War II were just huge battery banks.
Right.
With a small space for the crew, but most of the space was for batteries and a space for ammo, you know, torpedoes.
Sure.
Well, it was possible to hook up a fully charged battery bank across the generator that wasn't turning.
So what immediately happens is a very large field begins to build up very rapidly.
A lot of current.
Yes.
And the rate of change of that field is directly proportional to the electric field that gets induced.
So a very large electric field suddenly builds up and immediately causes a spark over.
Well, typically what would happen, it would burn out the windings.
So the Navy, seeing this problem, designed a special spark gap.
And off of that particular spark gap, as soon as the spark would begin to develop, then a magnetic coil would push the spark out onto the tip of these two electrodes.
Very frequently, a ball about the size of a large orange would form.
Uh-huh.
Float around inside the submarine and then explode, go off like a .22.
I have also heard... Now, I don't know... Forty-five.
Forty-five.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I've worked for some very large 50,000-watt radio stations.
Now, they take lots and lots of hits with great big antennas of lightning.
It's a normal thing.
And at the base of the towers, They've generally got a couple of balls.
And, you know, it's designed to allow the lightning to jump from one ball to the other and then to ground.
And I have heard that ball lightning frequently has formed at those locations as well.
Does that make sense?
Sure it does.
It does because a ball is probably the worst path that you can give because it presents You know, I mean, typically, you want a point.
If you want to lead a current somewhere, you want a point.
Right.
And so that means the voltage builds up.
And so when the voltage builds up to a critical value, that means a very large, when it breaks down, when the breakdown begins to occur, it means a large current is going to flow.
And when that large current begins to flow, it can self-constrict.
And when it self-constricts to a critical density, and this density was discovered By two fellows, Hans Alfvén, who was a Nobel Prize winner in 1970, and another fellow by the name of J.D.
Lawson, independently back in the late 30s.
And it was called the Alfvén-Lawson limit.
And so there is a maximum current density in a current in a plasma.
And when that current density is reached, that current begins to self-constrict.
It's called a pinch effect.
But what actually drives the pinch effect and what occurs during the pinch effect is what actually causes or creates ball lightning.
And basically what is generated then is a ring current.
A ring current, now that's important.
Now, suppose I were to ask you, I can understand, based on what you've already said, what creates ball lightning.
What I don't understand is what sustains ball lightning.
You've said that ball lightning Ball lightning, in rare occasions, has been observed to last for as long as 30 minutes.
Yes.
How in the hell can it be sustained?
I may be asking questions you don't yet have answers to, so when I do, just pipe up.
But what could sustain it for that period of time?
Well, ball lightning is a... I think the unique characteristics of what ball lightning is, is it has two current modes.
In other words, there's a current mode where the current flows around the ring, and that's called a toroidal current mode, and then there's another current mode which, when the current is very strong around the ring, then at every point across from the ring is an anti-parallel current.
In other words, if you're standing at point A on the ring, and then you look across and there's point B on the other side of the ring, the current is going the opposite direction right there.
Wow!
I mean, in other words, because it takes, you know, it's going, if you're standing on a ring, and the ring, you know, goes in the direction of your right hand, and as it gets clear around the ring, the far direction from you, it's going the opposite direction.
Right.
So what happens, that means that everywhere opposite on a ring is an anti-parallel current, and according to standard physics, parallel currents attract one another, anti-parallel currents repel, so the ring tends to expand rapidly.
As soon as it expands, It reaches the critical current density everywhere in the ring.
And immediately, the current vector rotates 90 degrees.
Now you've got that same rotation characteristics if you had a tornado and joined its ends.
Right.
Okay.
Now you basically have... Now what happens?
As soon as that happens, then it tends to contract.
And as soon as it contracts, Then, now the type of flow that's going on, the current direction at that time is called a poloidal current, because the current is going down the hole, you know, out the back, coming up over the surface, and then back down the hole again.
Sort of like you took a trip into the North Pole, went clear down through the middle of the Earth, and came out the South Pole, and then came up past the equator, and that's the circuit, that's a poloidal current.
Gotcha.
And you could see then that that ploidal current then tends to build up very, to a very dense limit in the core.
And as soon as the alpha-loss limit is hit there, then the current vector rotates another 90 degrees.
Okay.
And that then makes it a wing turn again.
So it expands again.
So it expands again.
It oscillates back and forth between these two modes.
An oscillation.
Yes.
Yeah.
Alright.
But still, there are other forces at work.
In other words, here you have this Self-sustaining, at least for a period of time, current in an atmosphere which must be rapidly attempting to dissipate it.
In other words, the atmosphere is going to work on it, because normally a current is carried, for example, through something that is conductive, a wire, and generally the atmosphere is not a conductive thing.
So this is some sort of self-sustaining thing, but even at that, the atmosphere around it is going to work at dissipating it, or trying to, isn't it?
It is, but this is something that actually I discovered about ball lightning only in the last few months, and it really is an analysis of what those two surfaces do, and it's a conjunction.
I mentioned that there's two magnetic surfaces, and they're counter-oriented.
So the outside one is going to the right, and the inside one is going to the left.
Now they're separated by the current sheet, and that current sheet really is a two-dimensional current.
But at the conjunction, we'll call that the conjugate surface.
All right, hold the conjugate surface for the break here.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Charles Cagle is my guest, and we are talking about ball lightning for a very specific reason, and because of the direction it led him.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
At area code 702-727-1295.
Art Bell is taking your calls on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
That's 702-727-1295. This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Bell.
with Art Bell.
That would be me.
And by the way, two things about my website.
Number one, it went sailing over 7 million hits since the first of the year.
I wonder who number 7 million was.
Did you save it on your screen?
We had to start marking those who hit the million marks.
Anyway, over 7 million hits.
And for a good reason, there's a lot of good stuff up there.
Take my guest tonight, Charles Cagle.
He has an extensive presentation on tonight's website.
So I suggest you go take a look, and as you try to understand what he's saying, we're discussing ball lightning, and we soon will be discussing our own sun.
We're sort of building up to it.
I would suggest that you go up to my website, And take a look under the new news area.
You'll see the Kegel presentation.
Just click on that and you've got quite a bit to read and study there for what you're going to hear that is going to support what you're going to hear.
And he's got some very, very good illustrations.
So we'll get back to Charles Kegel in a moment.
And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
Back now to Charles.
And Charles, we were discussing why atmosphere doesn't almost immediately dissipate ball lightning.
Okay, well the simple answer really is that ball lightning is Reason it has escaped everyone in the sense of people knowing what it was and why there are 40 different theories, because it, as I said, as soon as it passes through a piece of sheet metal, 99% of what we understand about physics falls off on this side of the sheet metal.
And yet it keeps going.
And the reason is because what we know about physics, or what we have known, a lot of it has just been wrong.
Are these things that Nikola Tesla understood or had some level of understanding that we do not today?
Well, you know, Tesla's always a mysterious figure in the sense that, you know, he's got quite a cult following right now.
And I think I was once in his cult, you know.
But he was a remarkable fellow, and what he understood, he claimed that he could produce ball lightning.
In fact, he wrote, I've never seen ball lightning, but I have been rewarded because I determined its mode of production and was able to produce it with my coil.
And that was in 1899 in Colorado Springs.
Somebody just sent this to me from the Tesla website.
Corum and Corum reproduced Nikola Tesla's ball lightning production technique.
This type of ball lightning arises when RF arcs with impulsive envelopes of vaporized carbon And the Kurums believe the phenomena to be a sort of stable combustion process with carbon or copper and ozone, with a diffusion limited something or another that I can't read here, which somehow allows the combustion process.
Their fireballs range in size up to five centimeters, last several seconds, change color with time, sometimes terminate existence with a bang.
Numerous photos and video still frames of the phenomena are available.
Well, you know what?
Those are the first guys that actually cracked it on a regular basis.
Really?
Sure.
And I have some of their videotapes and their material, and I think that they did just outstanding work.
So they made Ball Lightning?
They made it, yeah.
And just like Lawrence Welk's bubble machine.
I mean, not one or two, but hundreds.
Now, they don't last long.
And the machine that they used was pretty low power.
I think they said something like 80 watts, but they might have built a little bigger one.
So it could actually be done very easily.
So I owe a lot to those guys, and I thank them because seeing their photos, and they did Video frame analysis.
They took videos of this and then frame by frame they took them apart and saw that they rotated, that they had phenomena that were just like little stars.
They produced loop phenomena, darkening of limbs, looked like they had little sunspots on them.
They rotated.
They went through what they described as a main sequence of stars that would progress through different color stages.
But then when it came down to it, They analyzed it differently than I did.
On one hand, I thank them.
On the other hand, I think they're wrong about what it was.
In fact, I know they are.
You said that conventional physics begins to fall apart when ball lightning passes through sheet metal, for example, steel, whatever.
How so?
I mean, you get a plasma.
It shouldn't pass through.
It shouldn't pass through sheet metal.
It shouldn't pass through dielectrics, but it does.
It passes through.
Would it pass through sheet metal that is grounded?
In other words, would grounding ball lightning discharge it as a normal lightning strike would discharge?
Not necessarily.
Ball lightning, in fact, is a giant particle.
It's a giant Well, let me see if I can get to it here.
Is that one of the first ones?
exactly like a giant neutron. If people would look at your website, there was a particular
picture up there which said the archetype form on it, or neutral macro-particle structure.
Well, let me see if I can get to it here. Is that one of the first ones?
Yeah, that's the one if you want to understand what ball lightning is.
Okay, I see ancient Earth at the top, a dipole reversal sequence below that, internal dynamo
model for magnetic dipole generation.
Is that what I want?
No, that one should have been color.
What that is, is a drawing of what the current thoughts on the generation of the Earth's magnetic field was.
Okay, tell me what I'm looking for here.
Okay, it looks like a donut with a section cut out of it, and it's down closer to the bottom.
Oh, I see, okay.
Oh, I might have it here.
Let's see, I've got archetype, form, or... No, that's it.
Oh, that's it, okay.
That's it, that's the structure.
Okay, I see it.
Okay.
Well, right at the interface between those two, Toroidal surfaces are donut surfaces.
You know, there's one donut inside of another.
Right.
Right at that interface.
That interface itself, which I call a conjugate surface, is actually a surface of total time dilation.
And what that means is that this thing, you know, ball lightning, in fact, You have to understand what the potentials are, but I'll skip past some of this.
The fact is that if you had a little particle and shot it at this, as soon as that particle begins to approach that surface, at the very surface of that interface, its velocity begins to approach zero.
What that means is that this thing is impenetrable.
It's a permanent, stable structure.
Really?
For as long as it's operational, which could be a very short time, or up to 30 minutes, it's impenetrable.
Yeah, typically, ball lightning exists in a very hostile environment for its survival.
And so, consequently, it's always moving to find the least energy position.
Is it always born of a thunderstorm?
Well, no, not always, but typically, it's always produced by You know, the scenario that I talked about before, which was the generation of a rain current from a very dense current element.
Which occurs most frequently during a thunderstorm or around a thunderstorm.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they did actually a study at Oak Ridge National Laboratories among 17, I think it was 17 or 18,000 workers that they had there a few years back.
And they found that, just a survey, who had seen ball lightning and actually found that like 3% of the people had seen it.
So it's not as uncommon.
As people might think, in fact, it's as common as being very near a lightning strike.
In other words, typically people are not 100 yards away from a lightning strike.
I mean, it happens, certainly.
Sure.
But typically, I've never been that close to one, and thank heavens.
Have you ever seen ball lightning yourself?
Yes, actually, I did.
I saw one come out from underneath my refrigerator one day.
Underneath your refrigerator?
Yeah, I had a short and apparently it produced and this little ball came out and didn't last but a second or two and was gone.
That's interesting.
I was up in the mountains above Boulder, Colorado years ago and I was interviewing whoever I could who I thought might have seen ball lightning and I ran across this old miner and he was putting a shaft down and And I thought, now this guy's surely seen ball lightning up in the mountains here.
And so I said, have you ever seen ball lightning?
And he says, no.
He says, but a matter of fact, I own a restaurant down in Pueblo.
And I'm thinking, what's that got to do with it?
And he had one of these great big five horsepower Hobart mixers.
And he said, you dump in a whole bunch of boiled potatoes in this and turn it on.
It would lug down.
And a ball about the size of a ping pong ball would come out of the socket where it was plugged in and shoot across the room.
And then explode and go off like a little .22 shot.
You know, it can come from a variety of sources, but typically, wherever there's a very super-dense current element that reaches that alpha-molybdenum limit and produces a little wing current, this thing immediately begins to oscillate and produces typically a ball lightning incident.
Okay.
Ball lightning, when it does dissipate, I don't know if there are even any real studies, but what percentage of the time does it just simply sort of dissipate as a tornado might dissipate, versus the explosion?
I mean, we have all these descriptions of ball lightning exploding.
Yeah, they do explode quite a lot, but I couldn't tell you what the percentage is, but they do have been noted to just fade away.
But they can contain prodigious amounts of energy.
A good example is one that occurred in the Soviet Union.
A ball came down through the roof of a house, went out the door, then went 50 meters from the building and exploded and knocked the building down.
It was about the size of a basketball.
The Russian engineers came in and surveyed the damage.
Their calculations, they came up and said that the ball had, per unit volume, seven times the explosive force of TNT.
All right, is there a way to measure or understand the voltage and current levels that might be within ball lightning typically?
Has anybody worked that one out?
Well, that's an interesting question, but it turns out that when it's in the toroidal current mode, you actually cannot measure And it has to do with, because it's a certain mathematical function, a curl function, the divergence of any curl function is zero.
And so it turns out that you can have this ring current, and you actually can't measure it.
There are times when you can't measure it, because it's an infinitely conducting current loop.
And there's a good analog of that.
Would it be producing a magnetic field?
Well, it depends on whether...
If it goes into the colloidal current mode, then no, it doesn't produce a magnetic field.
In fact, the magnetic field then is toroidal, and it's closed on itself, and it has zero divergence, and it can't be measured.
Weird.
Well, and of course that, you know, was part of, you know, because when you blow ball lightning up to a large scale, then you end up having the same thing as the Earth's magnetic field.
It's the same structure.
And of course, the Earth goes through dipole reversals.
Yes, we're certainly going to get to that.
I had a guest on recently who suggested to me that he has measured the Earth's magnetic field, and that in the last 100 or 200 years, if 200 years ago we were at a strength of 10, we're now at about a 1.5.
And it is his position that our magnetic field has weakened that far.
Is there any indication that is true?
You know, that puts me in an awkward position.
I'd say there's not a word of truth in that.
I think that they have measured what they believe is a slight decline, but at the most Tenth of a percent or so.
It's a very small amount.
And they're not even sure that it's an ordinary decline or just a statistical up and down.
All right, here's another one.
About three or four times a year, I have a lot of listeners out there who monitor a lot of strange things just because it's their hobby.
And I will start to get calls and faxes and people will say, the Earth's, or true North, is beginning to wobble.
And they will note anywhere between a 5 or a 6 degree change to a 12 to 13 degree change.
And this will seem to last for a short period of time, and then it will come back just as it should to true north.
Any thoughts on that?
Sure.
Well, the magnetic north, it's not like the spin axis north of the planet, which stays in pretty much the same spot.
It actually can wander as much as about 100 kilometers a day.
Really?
Yeah.
Now that doesn't translate into very many degrees, naturally.
But it actually can wander, I've read, you know, 80 to 100 kilometers a day.
So it can vary.
It wobbles around.
So if you went up there and decided to camp there and, you know, the day you set up your equipment, the next day it wouldn't be there.
You know, it would have moved a little bit.
Well, actually, I suppose if you were right up there, it would move a lot.
Yes.
Relative to your position.
That's right.
You'd be chasing it.
That would be confusing.
All right.
So the reason, shortly, that we've been discussing ball lightning is going to be apparent because it is your theory, or would you say it's more than a theory?
Have you proven it?
That the toroidal nature of ball lightning is very much like In fact, our Earth's electromagnetic field, yes?
Well, in fact, it's... You know, that seems to be... You know, I guess it'd be seeming like I was overly proud, but I don't mean it this way.
In fact, I would say it's no longer a theory, in the sense that I think it's a theory.
I think that this is the physics That I believe that people are going to be eventually teaching for the next thousand years.
I don't consider it a theory.
I've got so much evidence.
I've spent 25 years on the trail of this.
Now that doesn't mean, you know, just because I spent a lot of time that I would necessarily be successful, but I think there's no question in my mind that I've come up with some solutions that have solved some very long-standing problems in physics, and they come right out of this model.
Now, the news that lies ahead for us, if what you're saying is correct, and frankly, I think that what you're saying is correct.
What you're saying began as a study of ball lightning, but then you found application to the Earth and actually much more.
In other words, you're saying that this physics, this toroidal and poloidal current effect that you're talking about, ...is present in an entire planet, and for that matter, would it be also present in the Sun?
You bet.
You bet.
It's the same structure in the Sun, and other stars, and stellar jets, and it's a ubiquitous structure, and it exists all over the universe, and that's why I call it the archetype, because it's an archetype form, meaning that it is a universal form upon which everything else follows that pattern.
Well, I take it that you have presented this theory to some physicists for their consideration.
significant discovery.
Naturally, people are not going to swallow it overnight.
Well, I take it that you have presented this theory to some physicists for their consideration.
That's one of the things that scientists are supposed to do, I
suppose, is try to get their peers to look at their work and
Have you done that?
I have.
I've taken it to a number of people, but the spectrum of what the responses are ranges all over from they get first-class qualified, you ask if you have a degree, and if you have no, they don't even listen to you.
Two, I took it to a fellow who had just quit Los Alamos as a top nuclear weapons designer.
And he got a pang of conscience one day, and he said, what am I doing building bombs?
I ought to be building young minds.
And so he quit and took a job at a small college at a cost, I would suspect, of $40,000 or $50,000 a year.
All right, we're at a break point here.
We have to break.
So we'll finish this and pick up on the relationship when we come back.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
From the Kingdom of Nye, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
Worldwide, the Russians are saying they have an answer.
Americans may soon be back inspecting Iraqi chemical and biological sites.
And so we'll see how that works out.
Meantime, we're still sending a lot of hardware that direction.
Militants, Islamic ones, in Egypt are taking credit for the killing of 62 near an ancient temple in Egypt and of course the FBI has ended the investigation of the TWA flight declaring it was not a criminal act but rather some sort of mechanical problem and that's basically what's going on in the world otherwise we're speaking tonight with Charles Cagle a self-educated physicist and we've been talking about ball lightning for the last hour
And basically to summarize, ball lightning is a really, really weird thing, which has all kinds of interesting currents.
A toroidal current that goes around the outside, and sometimes a colloidal current on the inside.
Now, all of this may be a little difficult for you to grasp, and so we have put on my website, thanks to Charles, very good descriptions, pictorial descriptions, of exactly what we're talking about.
In other words, what is ball lightning?
And if you want to know, go up there and take a look.
It's at www.artbell.com.
Now, other than the interest side of it, why have we been discussing ball lightning?
We're about to get to that, but first this for you, Charles.
Art, a very tangential thought.
In the days when the seas were navigated by sailing vessels, I think those sailors would sometimes see something called St.
Elmo's Fire.
Was this ball lightning?
And if so, Why did it happen?
In other words, was there something in the configuration or composition of the ship's rigging that was conducive to the phenomena?
Well, typically, there's a charge buildup.
There's a principle that there's about 100 volts per meter is the average electric field gradient across the surface of the Earth.
And when there's thunderclouds and storms, this can naturally build up and To much greater values.
Typically you'll find that if there's any points on an otherwise flat surface that all the field all concentrates at that point.
So a ship on the surface of the sea represents points sticking up in a very large electric field.
Well the Chinese are famous, I think, for saying that the nail that gets pounded down is the one that sticks up.
Sort of like that, huh?
Yeah, well this ship is sticking up and it's And all the electric field for the region typically is concentrated on the mast and the spars.
And so you get what's called ionic discharge, which is just a strong electric field is built up around the mast and the spars and the rigging.
And any air molecules that come within close to that, they basically have their electrons stripped off.
And they then will recombine, and that emits light, and so you end up seeing this thing that looks like a light.
It's very much, and the same thing, if you go back, even in the Bible, there was the burning bush.
Oh, yes.
The burning bush was a really good example of, you know, you could call it St.
Elmo's fire.
Here was a tree that appeared to be on fire, and yet didn't Didn't burn.
Didn't burn.
And this is not uncommon up in mountains.
We see that sometimes in pine trees up in the Rockies.
You'll see St.
Elmo's fire.
So it occurs, ships at sea, it occurs.
But there's some really interesting things.
You'll notice when Moses is talking to God, or God says, draw near, He says, take your shoes off your feet.
Now, what's that tell you?
Let's translate it into English.
Get grounded.
Get grounded?
I see.
Well, of course, out of most small lightning does not plop ten commandments.
Yeah.
Oh, you know, there was a question during the break, you know, about the direction of lightning.
Okay, I read that to you and I'll give everybody, let me give everybody an idea.
It is, by the way, unsigned.
It is critical of you and suggests that you I must not be educated because it has been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, I'm giving sort of a paraphrasing the facts here, that lightning goes from the ground to the cloud and never does it do anything else.
The Navy, he says, has proven this with high-speed photography.
And you can go to any research institute and prove it.
Yes or no?
No.
Go to Volume 184, Number 1, July 19, 93, National Geographic.
Right.
And page 95.
And, you know, Lightning Anthology.
And it was actually, the consultant was Martin Uman, who's actually written books on lightning.
Okay.
And this is both negative cloud to ground lightning, A, and positive ground to cloud lightning, C, connect negative cloud regions with the ground.
Well, it was unsigned.
the top of the cloud and the ground lightning in and among clouds.
So it draws pictures of both positive cloud to ground and positive cloud to ground and
negative ground to cloud.
So it can go both ways?
Sure.
Yeah.
Alright.
Anybody that says anything is always one way.
Well it was unsigned.
Now, okay, your study of ball lightning led you at some point to a larger understanding
of our own Earth, of planets, and of the sun itself.
Right.
In what way?
Well, it became evident.
See, I happened to find a little ball lightning incident that took place in 1886.
And it was recorded in Scientific American.
And nine persons were affected by this.
And the evidence was that if you analyze the injuries today, These people actually received a really strong dose of fast neutrons.
Fast neutrons?
Fast neutrons.
Fast neutrons from ball lightning?
Yeah, as soon as they were exposed to it.
They said it was very bright and it was humming, which means, you know, it was oscillating between the two current modes.
Right.
And that's a very common signature of ball lightning, the hums.
And as it was oscillating, it reaches It actually begins to produce, in its core, can produce neutrons.
It doesn't strip them away from pre-existing atoms, it actually generates them, makes them on the spot.
Generates neutrons.
Alright, now, be careful, we're not scientists here, but I guess my question would be, does that mean some sort of fusion process is underway?
No.
In fact, fusion, we can get to that in a little bit, but That wasn't the source of the neutrons.
In fact, fusion can occur in ball lightning.
Of course, that was probably the big interest in ball lightning, because here was a stable plasma.
Here we built these.
We spent $40 billion over 40 years building these tokamaks and whatnot at Princeton.
Right.
We want fission.
We want to figure out fission.
We want to understand fusion.
We want to figure out how to create it, then how to contain it, and how to sustain it.
Yes.
And Wall Lightning is that sometimes, you say?
Sure, yeah.
You know, here it is.
It has this big, huge energy density per unit volume.
It seems to be self-confined.
And if it's even a few seconds confined, it's far longer confined than anything that $40 billion in 40 years have bought us.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, they have produced only, I think, a very fraction of a second, haven't they?
Yeah.
Well, I began to develop this model, and I began to realize that this was a pretty ubiquitous structure, and I began to see, you know, the Sun was actually blowing magnetotoroidal bubbles.
I say magnetotoroidal, and that's a new term.
I hate to coin terms, but it's more descriptive than magnetosphere, because it's really a toroidal structure.
The Sun blows them.
It ejects them out into space.
They stay together.
They hang together.
Okay, the sun is beginning to get very, very active all of a sudden.
We've been through now several years of a real lull.
I'm a ham operator.
When the sun is not active, when there are not a lot of sunspots and solar storms going on and all the rest of it, things in ham radio get very boring.
The frequencies are not active.
But all of a sudden, in the last, oh, I don't know, several months, we've been having these great Big eruptions.
As a matter of fact, several months ago, CNN made a big deal out of this ejecta.
More than the normal sun flare.
They said, ejecta!
It's a giant ejecta!
And CNN said, it's headed right at Earth.
And actually, it sort of missed.
But it was a gigantic ejecta.
And if it had hit Earth, what would have occurred?
You know, typically what happens when a coronal mass ejection hits the Earth, the first thing it does that boosts the Earth's magnetic field acts like a, I don't know, I hate to use this analogy, but it acts like a force field.
It's a natural feedback mechanism that it hits the magnetotoroid or magnetosphere of the Earth and it really boosts the ring current and the field expands.
And as it expands, Then it basically kind of acts like a protection against this big blast of ions, which is typically, if it's a coronal mass ejection that's hung together, then it's magnetically confined itself.
And so it's like, you know, it slams into the Earth, the Earth's field expands, and when it expands, there is a ring current associated with the Earth.
Kind of like in the ball lightning?
There is, and there was a fellow by the name of Sidney Chapman.
He's dead now, but he was probably a really famous scientist.
He was a very strong advocate of the geophysical year, and he was probably the last guy who believed in a ring current.
But anyway, it'll boost the ring current up.
Now, the danger is if we get hit by a succession of coronal mass ejections that boost that ring current up, So high that it hits the current limit.
Alright, we'll get to that.
That's the punchline to all of this.
But let me understand if I can.
I understand a little bit about what a flare is.
A sun flare occurs in 11 or 22 year cycles depending on how you want to talk about it.
It increases sort of ups and downs and ups and downs.
And we are coming into a very active period now.
A sun flare is sort of a, it flares out and we might get bombarded with some immediate energy and then there's another group of energy that takes longer to reach us.
What is the difference between a sun flare and this ejecta thing?
Well, okay, the sun flare actually typically is a result of the intersection of two magnetic loop systems, two or more, which then collapse.
And they basically release all their energy catastrophically on the surface of the sun and out into space.
And so this flare is a big burst of typically protons, electrons.
And it really is the most violent event that occurs in our solar system.
A flare?
Yes, a solar flare.
If the Earth was within range, it'd incinerate it.
But luckily we're 93 million miles out.
Good.
But typically, when we get hit by a coronal mass ejection, it really bounces the magnetic field around the Earth.
It changes the position of the ionosphere, so you get those neat skips.
Okay, but again, my question was, what is the difference between a coronal mass ejection and a flare?
The difference between a coronal mass ejection and a flare is that one is more or less confined.
A coronal mass ejection tends to hang together.
It acts like it is a very large magnetotoroid that's been ejected from the sun.
In fact, there's pictures that show exactly that.
Is there a parallel to ball lightning?
In other words, is it like a piece of ball lightning from the sun?
It's the same structure on a larger scale.
In other words, a torus is a torus is a torus.
Okay.
It's just a bigger... On the website, I sent one up that I got off a NASA site.
Uh-huh.
It shows four shots and you can actually see this toroidal structure emerging from the sun.
I see.
That's a coronal mass ejection.
I see.
It's toward the bottom of the page.
I see it.
It's absolutely incredible.
Yeah, so this thing comes out and it can hit the earth, but a flare is just a... This is what happens when a toroidal structure collapses.
It releases all the energy.
All the energy that's contained in those toroidal structures is quite significant and it then Then basically, one is confined, one isn't.
So one is a huge burst of particles that are driven out with considerable energy of the explosion of the flare, which is like some hundred million hydrogen bombs going off.
And the other one is also quite violent, but it is ejected and it is relatively confined.
Now the interesting thing is that after they leave the sun, You can't see them.
So you just kind of project it.
It looked like it was coming this way.
You can't typically see them.
But if you happen to have a spacecraft out there that has a magnetometer on board, then what they'll see as it passes through is the meter goes flip, flip, flip, flip.
And they say, what was that?
That looked like we went through a magnetosphere.
Like a bow shock of a comet or a planet or something.
So we know that they're there.
They come toward the Earth and they hit the Earth more frequently than chance.
Uh, more frequently than chance.
Now why would that be?
Because you would imagine the Sun being roughly a great big ball, uh, would be ejecting, you know, randomly in all kinds of directions.
So why would there be a better than normal chance of it hitting Earth?
You got me.
I mean, when I look at it, you know, if you imagine one of these things at 800,000 miles in diameter, and you just take a look at the cross-section of that, and then you think about what the cross-section of the surface of the sphere is, 93 million miles with a radius of 93 million miles, the chances, if they just hit on the equatorial plane, it's about 1 in 54,000, but if they hit Anywhere.
In other words, they're ejected in any direction, but they're not.
They're typically ejected... I think they typically pass along the solar equatorial plane.
Could it be that we attract them?
Well, it could be.
In other words, could there be a relationship between the Earth and the Sun as there is between a cloud and the ground?
There could be, but I... You know, it's...
I'm just shooting in the dark here.
I think the truth of it is more unbelievable.
I personally think that they're directed, but then that gets into a religious issue and lots of people don't want to hear that.
Well, if it's what you believe, that's fine.
Sure.
In other words, if we should not be getting hit as frequently as we do, and yet we do, then either there is a hard scientific explanation, or a religious one, or both.
Yeah, it'd be both.
All right, when we come back, we're going to get into the hard stuff.
I'm Art Bell.
Charles Gagel is my guest.
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And she'll eat you, she'll eat you.
www.larryweaver.com And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
From Florida Online, Space Online, if you will, are the following.
Charles is, may relate, from Paris.
A likely solution to one of the major mysteries of our Sun has emerged from recent observations with the European Space Agency slash NASA Solar Observatory or SOHO mission.
We now apparently have direct evidence for the upward transfer of magnetic energy from the Sun's surface toward the corona above.
There is more than enough energy coming up from the loops of the magnetic carpet To heat the corona to its known temperature, according to Dr. Alan Teitel of the Stanford Lockheed Institute for Space Research, Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center in Palo Alto, he said, quote, each one of these loops, haha, loops, carries as much energy as a large hydroelectric plant, such as Hoover Dam, could generate in a million years, end quote.
So they're talking about loops themselves now.
Am I on?
Oh yeah.
Well, that's true.
And I think they're starting to wise up.
Let me make a real quick correction.
I said 54,000 to 1.
54,000 to 1. If there was a CME that was 800,000 miles in diameter, the chances of it hitting
the earth are about 730 to 1. And yet more than should do.
Yeah, if it's just going along the equatorial plane, if it were to go omnidirectionally from the Sun, any direction, then it's about 260,000, 225 to 1.
All right, science knows that there have been, in the Earth's history, many pole reversals.
And I don't know exactly how they established this.
I guess they look at layers of the Earth and drill in core samples and so forth.
And so they know that there have been many pole reversals.
What occurs?
Can you tell me what you believe occurs if the poles were to reverse tomorrow?
What would happen?
Well, poles can reverse more rapidly than people thought.
They thought that they could actually reverse.
It took anywhere from 1,000 to 5,000 years or so to reverse, but studies at Steens Mountain have shown that the actual field can actually move as much as six degrees a day, which means the field could be down in as little as 15 days once it starts to go.
Fifteen days.
Fifteen days.
And what would we feel and know as it began to shift six degrees per day?
Okay, the first thing that you would know, what we're going to do is we're going to look at the sun and use it as an analog.
Okay.
In other words, what we see going on the sun, the sun goes through a pole reversal every 11 years.
Right.
And so it has a 22 year long cycle, you know, before it's back up to where it was.
Right.
As a ham operator, they are able to detect the moment that occurs when they start seeing Reversals in the sunspots.
In other words, what was positive is now negative.
What was negative is now positive.
Right.
Right?
That's right.
They believe they've already detected that and we're on the way up.
Yeah, we're on the fast ascension phase of Cycle 23, which looks so far, if we follow past patterns, Cycle 23 looks like it could be the very largest solar maximum ever recorded in the history of the world.
Really?
So, it could go the other way, but it's starting off nicely.
Which means we've already been hit by some CMEs.
One CME hit the Earth back in January and burned out the AT&T 401 Telstar satellite.
And again, a CME stands for?
Coronal Mass Ejection.
A whoosh, a big whoosh out of the sun.
Yeah, it's an ejected structure.
Maintains a pretty You know, it maintains a structure.
If it didn't, it'd be dispersed by the time it got here.
It would hardly affect us.
Then I see these notices on the internet about X-class events.
X-class flares.
Flares, yeah.
What are they?
I don't know.
No.
You know, they have M-class flares, X-class.
X according to the information I've been receiving would be the highest degree of measurement
of a flare.
But I'd be just talking into the wind, because I can't answer you for sure.
But the guy who could answer you is probably Terry Ohler.
And if you do a search, he has a site on the web, C-A-R-Y-O-L-E-R, and he actually sells software that that analyzes the raw data that NASA supplies from the SOHO
program.
Alright, well anyway.
Okay, but you ask the question, what would happen?
And what happens, the first thing that we'll see, if we're using the sun as an analog,
is that magnetic loop systems will begin to develop, first of all the Earth is going to begin to develop a very
strong poloidal current.
Kind of like ball lightning.
Yeah, a very strong poloidal current, which means from pole to pole,
from the core of the Earth, a strong current vector begins to appear.
Now that makes sense.
We get slammed with one of these CMEs and the current begins to develop.
Okay.
Yeah, that's because we're talking about having been slammed by the CME, it drives the current, the ring current, up to the critical limit.
It rotates 90 degrees and when it does, now we end up in, develops a colloidal current, which then collapses toward the core.
We get a really strong Uh, current vector right through the core.
Now we know that this is happening on the sun, though I've never seen it written, because we get these big gigantic magnetic loop systems that begin to come right out of the sun.
Where do you think these come from if it isn't from a really powerful current element?
Right.
And so, we should be getting, on the sun then, starting in the mid-latitudes, and there's a butterfly diagram I think I might have posted to you, I'm not sure, uh, but starting at the mid-latitudes we get, um, These loops start coming out, and then they begin to move poleward.
Now, as the solar maximum, if we're talking about the Sun, begins to progress over time, then they begin to appear closer and closer and closer to the equator.
Okay.
So, what we're looking for is what happens when these two, on the Sun, when two magnetic loop systems collapse, say one is existing and one builds up underneath it, if they have the wrong polarity, They'll both collapse, and when they collapse, they produce a solar flare.
Right.
Which is a tremendous release of energy.
Right.
So, if we use the Sun as an analog and say, what's going to happen on the Earth?
Very large magnetic loop systems will begin to emerge, and when they collide and collapse, they'll produce, they'll release a tremendous amount of energy.
And that amount of energy that they'll release will be so horrific, it'll probably cause Richter 10-plus movements.
Earth movement.
Earth movement.
There'll be... Look, I've got to stop you, and a lot of people are going to call me crazy, but for all the years I've been on the air, I have been correlating sun activity with earthquake activity, and I swear there's a correlation.
I've been doing this for the last 20 years.
Oh, you're not the first.
It's in the literature already.
Well, some people think I'm crazy as a loon, but I, as a ham operator, I watch it very carefully, and I began to plot it, and I began to notice a very Distinct, absolute correlation between Sun activity and Earth movement.
I've noticed that, so I think it's true.
There is.
There is a correlation.
But this is a little bit beyond this, because this is a direct change of the magnetic field, which produces those loops, and when those collapse, you're going to produce... So a Richter 10 movement, generated by these, depends on where the energy is released.
If it's released all below ground, or if it's released You know, partially up in the air, we're going to get a tremendous atmospheric explosion, or if it mostly happens underneath the ground, you know, subsurface, then we're going to get a tremendous earthquake.
And that earthquake, let's say one happened 50 miles south, epicenter is 50 miles south of where I am, it'd probably create ground waves that would throw cars, you know, 100 feet into the air, you know, 20, 30 miles away.
So, we're talking about levels of earthquakes.
Now, these type of earthquakes, actually, we've actually been hit by them.
In 1799, there was an earthquake in Rio Bamba, which I think is now part of Peru.
And it threw people out of a village 200 feet across the river, where their bodies were found.
What?
Yes.
And that's recorded, actually.
I dug that out of an old 1872 copy of Popular Science.
And it was an article on earthquakes and their causes.
So, you know, we actually had some pretty tremendous earthquakes in the past.
But typically, we don't have such movements.
So people don't even think that, you know, they're a factor.
Well, when this starts to happen, if the Earth goes through a phenomena that's just like the solar max, and it will, and the geologic record indicates that it has in the past, then we're going to have major earthquakes at sea, You'll produce tsunamis that as they move toward shorelines, depending on the shorelines, they could build up a tsunami that hits the shore that could be a mile high.
A mile high tsunami?
Yeah.
Let's say one hit in the Indian Ocean, let's say south of the Bay of Bengal.
Right.
Okay.
So it produces a wave that's 400 or 500 feet high.
Right.
Okay.
By the time it moves northward and crosses the shallow shelf outside of the Brahma Putra and the Ganges flood plains, then the wave begins to increase in height.
By the time it comes ashore, it'll probably be about a mile.
It'll go inland.
It'll probably kill everybody in Calcutta.
When I say everybody, you know, almost everybody.
And virtually, you know, that's the most heavily populated area in the world.
You know, it's a very real scenario that this will happen, that you'll get a wave in that area, and it'll destroy probably everybody in Bangladesh.
It'll probably kill 130-140 million people in a single day.
You're watching Solar Cycle 23 very carefully, of course.
Sure.
Indications right now, and scientists have frequently been wrong about solar cycles.
They say, well, it's going to be a big one, or a strong one, or a weak one.
And they've been notoriously wrong.
It's like trying to predict the weather.
But so far, with the beginning increase we've had with solar cycle 23, which is now just beginning, is it holding up to be one of the biggest, do you believe?
Yeah, I think it's building.
That's too early to tell, but I think it's got all the earmarks.
We've been hit by a couple of nice CMEs.
And CME, when it hits the atmosphere, typically will expand the atmosphere to A little bit, and of course that, the low Earth orbit satellites, like spook satellites typically, begins to decay their orbit rather rapidly, and they have to either re-task them if they can, or... Oh, in other words, you know, I heard this the other day, someone told me this, so we get hit by a CME, the atmosphere literally expands, and a satellite in a low Earth orbit is suddenly in atmosphere, and has drag that it didn't have before, and begins to re-enter.
That's right, yeah.
So that is correct.
That's basically what brought down Skylab ahead of schedule.
That's the Expanding Earth Theory, and that, folks, if you want to go take a look at my website, is graphically shown.
Charles has provided really good graphics to show this on my website.
Right now, go take a look.
It's at www.artbell.com.
I mean, you really should take a look at this.
That's just the atmosphere that's expanding at that time.
Uh-huh.
But you actually are also suggesting the Earth itself is getting larger.
Well, I'm not the only guy.
There's books out on the subject.
And there's now a couple of websites that are up.
One by Jay Maxlow, M-A-X-L-O-W.
L-O-W, and people can do a search on that as a name.
Also, Carl Lueckert, L-U-C-K-E-R-T, and L-U-C-K-E-R-T.
And those guys have websites that show the Earth expanding based upon the chronology of the sea floor expansion.
Charles, as the CME hits the Earth, there would be an unusually large one,
or would there be sort of like the straw that broke the camel's back?
You're suggesting eventually, with a very active solar cycle, there will be an ejecta that will hit the Earth that will be so strong that it will be, in effect, too strong for us, and it will be the trigger that begins the reversal.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
That's exactly what we expect, and I expect It could be a one-two punch.
In other words, he gets hit by one, so it's in an excited state, and another one follows right behind it and boosts it on up.
So it actually could be a one-two punch, or it could be just one large one, or two or three in succession.
But it'll happen, and it's happened many times in the past.
You mentioned, you know, we have records that we know have happened at least 171 times since the period known as the Jurassic.
171 times?
At least 171 times.
And you really think we're close to it occurring again?
Sure, yeah.
And when this occurs, you've talked about earthquakes, you've talked about tsunamis, what about continental shift itself?
I mean, how very serious would this be and how many of us... I know it's asking a lot for you to predict or even think about this, but How damaging would it be to Earth?
Well, it's going to be quite significant in the sense that... Now, you're not going to see any continental shifts.
What you are going to see is because at the same time that there's a very large... Now, if this thing can produce these big magnetic loop systems, which are toroidal structures in the core of the Earth, which come out to the surface, then across vast cross-sections in the core on On countless micro-domains, there's going to be the production of tremendous, probably 175 billion tons of neutrons per second could be produced in the core.
We're talking about a very large amount of mass being produced that begins to be produced in the core.
Now, what happens is immediately that expresses as lithospheric tension to the surface.
In the form of?
Well, it means that, you know, it's like blowing up a balloon.
There's tension on the surface.
And what happens where there's tension on hot, wherever there's hot rocks, or hot basements, let's say of island chains, there's hot basements to the whole Hawaiian island chain.
And rocks yield under tension much more rapidly than they do under compression.
So immediately, this tension gets expressed to those.
They'll begin to yield.
And immediately, you'll see these island chains start to subside.
That's an interesting word, subside.
If you're in Hawaii, and you're on the air in Hawaii right now, they're listening.
So when you say, subside, what do you mean, subside?
I mean, they'll go down so fast that you won't be able to evacuate the people off of them.
That kind of subside.
Yeah.
You'll get a rapid subsidence.
These things will go down faster.
It'll be such a shock.
People won't believe that it could possibly move it.
You'll see these things moving down hundreds of meters an hour.
Hundreds of meters an hour?
Yeah.
This would apply not just then to the Hawaiian Islands, but... Any hot basement chains.
Any hot basement mountain systems.
In the origins, which is a mountain chain.
In other words, areas where there might be current volcanic action, that sort of thing?
Yeah, where the basements are hot.
Because where they're hot, they're weakest.
And that's where the lithosphere will give first.
What would you suspect for areas like, there's a very interesting thing going on at Mammoth right now, where they have been recording these incredible swarms of quakes, and they're actually so concerned with the bulging that's going on there, That they're ready to go to what's called a yellow alert at Mammoth.
And one day they expect the possibility of a new volcano there.
If we were to get hit with an ejecta that broke the camel's back, what about an area like Mammoth?
It'll probably begin to subside.
Because, you know, if it's above sea level, as soon as it stretches out, then the first thing it wants to reach what's called isostasis, equal balance.
Right.
Immediately, you know, it's the Archimedes principle.
It begins to, you know, so as soon as it thins out, down it goes.
And so you might see any hot basement large mountain chains start beginning to subside.
I don't know how rapidly they'll go, but I have a feeling that... Well, you said the reversal would be a 15-day process in all likelihood.
Listen, hold on.
We'll come back and open the lines next.
Charles Cagle is my guest.
Coast to Coast AF.
Coast to Coast AF.
We're ever playing to the gallery.
We take it on like no other.
We take it on like no other.
When you're up one to say good-bye, Unforgettable, unforgettable.
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Then you're watching to think you're losing time.
Oh, the family is an old way out.
Hartwell is taking your calls on the wildcard line at area code 7.
That's area code 702-727-1295.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It certainly is.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It certainly is. Charles Cagle is my guest.
And he'll be back in a moment.
A CME.
And then maybe another CME.
Coronal Mass Discharge.
Slams into the Earth.
And then we begin to go into a pole reversal.
Island Sink.
Islands with Volcanic Activity Sink.
And there's more.
And that'll be coming up in a moment.
And again I say, if this sort of material disturbs you, change channels.
But I think what Charles is saying is pretty well documented, and I would refer you to a webpage that Keith put together for Charles earlier today.
It took about two hours to put together, with a rather careful, thought-out presentation of precisely what he is saying.
You will find that on my website now at www.artbell.com.
All right, now, just let me remind my audience, tomorrow night we've switched things around a little bit.
Tomorrow night, Whitley Streber is going to be here, author of Communion and so much more, and what a story he's got for you tomorrow night.
And then the next night, Professor Michio Kaku, who is a physicist and perhaps one of the best known, best respected, and I think Probably is going to fill the very large shoes of Carl Sagan.
Well on his way to doing that.
He's a brilliant man.
The following night, Friday night, Saturday morning, Bob Frizzell will be here.
Bob is really something.
He wrote a book called, Nothing in this book is true, but it's exactly how things are.
Now, how's that for a title of a book?
Nothing in this book is true, but it's exactly how things are.
Sounds like a knockoff from Rush Limbaugh or something, huh?
But I understand he's a heck of an interview and I'm looking forward to it.
So that is the immediate, well actually, the immediate future is Charles Cagle once again.
Charles, welcome back.
Alright, we talked about large tsunamis.
We talked about if this coronal sun discharge should hit us again Be finally the straw that breaks the camel's back and start a pole reversal, which you think could occur from solar cycle 23, which already is starting out with a bang.
As a matter of fact, there was news during the top of the hour indicating El Nino, incredibly, is still building.
Not that it may have any relationship whatsoever to what's going on, but the El Nino is becoming quite an incredible story.
On its own.
At any rate, Solar Cycle 23 is underway, really roaring.
At some point, you're saying we're going to get hit, hit again, and it's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
This pole reversal will begin, which you think will take about 15 days.
We'll have massive earthquakes, islands will disappear, and what else?
Well, actually it's not a complete reversal that will take place.
It will go to the colloidal current mode.
That'll, it'll remain at that period for some time before it actually begins to go through the reversal.
But what will occur then?
Now, the fact is, is that when the current that generates, you know, this, this colloidal current, there, there turns out that there's no magnetic field at that time.
And the interesting thing about it is what protects the Earth in a mean, you know, normally, The magnetic field of the Earth protects the Earth from coronal mass ejections.
Right.
Okay.
Now, here are these things.
They travel.
They contain, say, 10 billion tons of mass.
These are published figures.
Mostly protons, electrons.
They travel at 623 miles a second.
They contain enough energy to boil away the Mediterranean.
Now, it's true.
They're not concentrated, necessarily.
But, nevertheless, when they hit the atmosphere, they're directly heated.
But, fortunately, we are protected From their direct effects, because... We have a magnetic field.
We have a magnetic field, and literally things expand as this ejecta hits the Earth, and we're protected.
Yeah, the magnetic field tends to expand and just sort of absorbs the energy, but when that field is not up, then the coronal mass ejection that intersects the orbit of the Earth will directly heat the atmosphere.
Now, and it can deliver its punch in a matter of, depending on its size and how much of it we catch, it can deliver its punch in, you know, four to twelve minutes.
Four to twelve minutes?
Yeah, and it'll only deliver its punch on the sunward side.
Charles, do you know that about two months ago there was news breaking all over the world about Israeli scientists Who said the whole idea of the KT event, with regard to the demise of the dinosaurs on Earth, is wrong.
And they said what killed the dinosaurs was a fantastic emission from our sun.
That's what killed them.
Killed them dead.
I didn't read that, but there's no doubt in my mind that a series of coronal mass ejections When the dipole field is down, it would be devastating, and really, really devastating to life on Earth.
What would it do?
I mean, let's assume that the magnetic field you're talking about, that normally protects us, is down, like your shields are down, and we get a big CME hit.
What happens?
Well, let's see what the last people that this happened to said.
Okay.
The last people that this happened to.
I'm going to say that we look at the legend of Satan, Which is an ancient Greek legend, and the legend goes like this, that Satan was the offspring of Apollo, the sun god.
Well, Apollo never showed up, and so the kids at school, I guess they were teasing him and saying, you don't have a dad, and he was taking quite a beating.
But one day Apollo showed up and said, yes, indeed, Satan, I am your dad, I am your father, and ask anything you want.
After all, I am the sun god, I can do whatever I want.
And the boys said, let me drive the chariot to the sun.
And Apollo immediately, I can imagine him clapping his hand over his mouth, wishing he had never said anything.
And he said, not that, anything else.
He says, you promise.
So he said, OK.
But just be careful.
Keep a steady firm on the reins.
Don't go too high or too low.
And Phaeton, it was no sooner that he had left the stables, supposedly, that the horses felt an unfamiliar hand on the reins.
And the chariot of the sun dropped down near the earth and scorched it, and rivers dried up, and forests were set on fire, and lakes disappeared from the heat, and men cried out to heaven, went up to heaven, burned heaven, and it just created tremendous havoc of burning the earth and scorching it.
And I think, supposedly, according to the legend, one of the gods shot him with an arrow and he fell out.
I think it was Apollo, the sun god.
But in any case, he died, and in the Greek legend, The Greek legend of Phaeton, I believe, is the mythologizing of some actual physical events.
People didn't know how to explain.
How did this happen?
Why are these great burnings coming down from the sun and drying up our rivers and scorching our croplands and setting our forests on fire?
Men were crying out in anguish.
They were being destroyed.
They make this legend about it.
They say, well, Phaeton was driving the Chariot of the Sun and it went amok.
We could expect some places.
Now, because a coronal mass ejection is a toroidal structure, depending on how it hits the Earth, it's not just a big ball, because then you'd get a uniform distribution of energy and it wouldn't necessarily, depending on the size and how big it was, it wouldn't necessarily deliver that much energy.
But in fact, Parts of it can actually have a real large current flow, like the core of it.
If the core were to hit the earth, it could actually melt rocks for a small area.
I'm not going to say that it's going to do that everywhere, but you'll get a real sudden increase.
I would expect a fast wilting of croplands, something like the Amazon burst into flames.
Basically, it's over.
If you're outside... I'm going to ask you for an estimation.
If Solar Cycle 23 that we're now in continues to build and be the biggest in all recorded history, how long, just a guess, do you think in months or years it might be before such an event could conceivably occur in this solar cycle?
Well, I'd say that it could start next week.
It could start It might not start until we're well into... Cycle 23 is expected to peak about the year 2000-2001.
So it could take place at the peak, it could naturally take place any time between now and the peak, or on the wind-down side.
So it could actually take place, let's say, 2003.
Anywhere where the sun is still emitting CMEs.
We don't know how long it'll last.
We know that the sun, for example, in the 1600s went into a minimum where, you know, for 80 years it didn't have it.
Nobody even saw a sunspot.
It's like the sun never went back to a solar max, you know, there was never a current reversal on it.
So, we know that it's not, you know, it's not always perfectly cyclic.
Okay.
Let's go to the phones and see what people say.
Wild Card Line, you are on the air with Charles Cagle.
Good morning to you.
Yeah, good morning, Art.
This is Dan in Virginia, and good morning, Charles.
Hi, good morning.
Many, many years ago, I used to be involved in the stereo business and worked with a manufacturer in Germany, and one thing that made his equipment so fantastic was he used torotal transformers because that would allow the music impulses To go way beyond its RMS rating, you know, like 80 watts.
It could handle musical impulses of 3 to 4 times the RMS rating.
So if you had a musical impulse, you know, that was demanding 40 watts of RMS, or root mean square power, you could actually hit musical impulses up around 360 to 400.
360 to 400, well, you know, 4 times 4 would be 160 or so.
But it also was extremely efficient, so it enabled to have higher frequencies much easier, and
then also the magnetic field wasn't as strong as a normal.
Okay, where are you headed here?
Yeah.
Okay, what I'm trying to do is to say we've got this toroidal effect that's hitting the
Earth and the effects of that on the magnetic field and tying this in with the zero point
concept, you know, of the higher frequency and the lower the magnetic field.
Any questions?
Yeah, I don't understand either way.
What is your question?
Well, the question is, what effect is it going to have on the magnetic field?
Well, at this time, the magnetic field, there's no dipole field on the Earth when the dipole field is down.
So, when the Earth's magnetotoroid is in The colloidal current phase.
Basically, you can't measure a magnetic field.
There's an analog to this in old memory core chips.
Not chips, but these little iron core memory things of old, really ancient computers.
You just have a soft iron core.
Just a little ring, basically.
You run a wire through it.
You send a DC pulse through it.
It sets up a magnetic field.
It stores a locked loop magnetic field that's Paroidal.
You can't measure it.
All right, so in other words, easier way to put it, we would not have a magnetic field.
That's right.
It would be zero.
Unmeasurable.
And we would, in effect, have shields down.
Yeah.
And if we were at a peak solar cycle and we got hit with an ejecta, well, you've described rather graphically already what would occur.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Hello.
Hi, Charles.
Hi.
Yes, hi.
Where are you?
Hi, this is Steve in Worcester, Massachusetts.
Just a couple of things, Art.
I'm glad about the WABC for you.
You finally got the jewel in your career.
Oh, thank you.
We're so very proud of that.
And as for your guest, Charles, very interesting subject.
a very interesting subject. I have a question about when you said that if this 10 plus quake
should hit in the ocean, it could start off with a 400 or 500 foot wave. As it comes inland
towards, say, the United States, And myself, I live in Worcester, Massachusetts, which is about 53 miles from the coast of Boston.
And you say that it could be a mile high by the time it gets to the shore.
How long would it take a mile-high wave to dissipate?
How far would a mile-high wave go in?
I think that I understand the nature of your question.
If it began as a mile-high at the shore, how worried should you be how far inland?
Well, it really depends on what your shoreline looks like, what the continental shelf off of Massachusetts looks like, and the direction of the wave.
And I really couldn't tell you if it hits the shore.
You know, I'm not going to say that it's going to actually come ashore at a mile high.
I'm saying that there are instances and there are topographies or, you know, seafloor topographies that are conducive to producing such waves when they come ashore.
Now, whether that's true off of Massachusetts, I don't know.
So, you know, you might be safe.
You know, along the seashore.
Or you might not be safe, you know, 50 miles inland, depending on what altitude you're at.
Yeah, exactly.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Good morning.
Where are you, please?
This is Dale.
I'm in Waikiki.
This is KHVH, 830 on the dial.
Waikiki.
Yep.
The active hotspot Hawaiian Islands.
That's it.
The hotspot of the planet.
Yes, sir.
I have one question and a quick piece of information you might want to know regarding the picture of Mariner 9.
Yes.
I guess I'll ask the question first.
A person gave me some information about that the sun gives birth to planets and that the sun was supposed to give birth to a new planet soon and I didn't know if that was, you know, I don't know much about physics and I didn't know if that was accurate or not because I know there's many different theories about How planets are formed.
I had never heard that before.
I don't know if Charles wants to answer that one, but it certainly would be one for Dr. Kaku on Thursday.
Yeah, I can answer that.
Oh, you can answer it.
Sure.
When the Sun has a ring current, that ring current expands.
When it expands way out, a cross-section of that ring current can hit that alpha loss limit.
When it does, it produces a very large Charles, you've got to hold it there.
structure out along the planetary plane.
Now this is the same structure.
It's the archetype structure, and it's there.
And it begins oscillating, producing mass in its core.
And eventually, that mass builds up and becomes a planet.
The same sort of thing produces moons from planets who already have an existing magnetotoroidal field.
When this ring current expands out very large.
Charles, you've got to hold it there.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
And Caller, I'll hold you.
So what can create can also destroy.
this is close to close to him and jobs were about to go back to the bones but
i wanted to with a hard one here You ready?
Sure.
This is from Steve in Tacoma.
I am so disappointed with your guest.
He said a magnetic field is what protects the Earth.
He's wrong.
Christ is what protects the planet, and only those that don't believe in Him can get affected, and that would only be if God wanted it so.
So, what do you say?
I agree.
You agree?
Sure, I would say, you know, but it has to... Are we on the air?
Well, I can never tell from minute to minute, you know, but I assume so.
It really becomes the great mystery of God gets revealed even in this structure.
You begin to see that virtually the whole mystery of the universe gets unfolded.
The only problem with what Steve said here is that he doesn't know what God's plan is.
Well, and he may very well not know, but God certainly has written it.
We take a look at what Messiah stated, and you know, he said great earthquakes in diverse places, perplexity, men's hearts failing them for fear, the sea and waves roaring, and so there we got the earthquakes, we got the tsunamis, and then we get to the last part which says, then the fourth angel pours out his vial unto the sun, and unto him is given power to scorch the earth.
Good answer for Steve.
East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Charles Cagle.
Good morning.
Hello.
Is this me?
Well, only you know that for certain, sir, but I think it's probably you.
Where are you?
My name is Eli.
I'm calling from New York City.
Hello there.
I'm enjoying your show very much, Mr. Bell.
Thank you.
Yes, Mr. I'm sorry, what's your guest name?
Charles Cagle.
Yes, Mr. Cagle, I would like to ask you, I don't know if you've seen the latest issue of U.S.
News and World Report.
Have you?
No, I haven't.
If you did, you know what I was talking about.
There's an article in there written by two fellas named, I think, Mike Smeltzor and Michael LeBron, and they say that about three months ago that they were abducted by aliens, and it's a very, very believable story, and that they got the whole anal probe thing, and the aliens identify themselves as McConnell and Dolenz, and they said that they were Well, I don't.
toll-free one eight hundred six one eight eight two five five
uh... i don't uh... and uh... moreover i don't think it has any relevance whatsoever to uh...
i want my guest is uh... it's hard about the
you're listening to an on-call performance of coast-to-coast a m with
art bell Bye for now.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Hello.
Yeah, Mr. Bell?
Yes.
Yeah, I already asked you the question.
You said you'd hold me over.
Oh, that's all right.
I'm sorry.
You're on the air, so go ahead.
Okay.
Yeah, I just, what I had left to say was I had a little piece of information you might be interested in before you're requesting about a photograph of Mariner 9.
It's in a book titled, The Keys of Enoch, put out by the Academy for Future Science.
It shows clearly several pyramids on the surface from a 1973 Mariner 9 photograph.
Yes.
Oh, look, there are pyramids all over the globe, not just at Giza, but all over the globe.
And I suppose it bears asking, Charles, there are many, Charles, who believe there have been previous civilizations on Earth.
There's a substantial amount of evidence for that.
As a matter of fact, they may have come and gone At points when we had polar reversals, who knows?
But the fact is, a lot of people believe that one of these civilizations determined that pyramids have something to do with the human resonance frequency of the Earth itself, and that they were on to some way to try and stop or change what otherwise would occur, which is probably what you've been talking about tonight.
It's a wild guess, but is that possible?
No, I don't think so.
Okay.
What's going to occur is, you know, if we talk about it, we can talk about it from two different angles.
Fact is, it's a physical fact that the poles do reverse.
No one's known why.
They've always thought it took four or five thousand years or so.
We know that can happen in 15 days or less.
And we know that each time that it's happened, there's been a great deal of catastrophic, you know, seafloor spreading, all sorts of different things.
So we know there's a reality to this.
We can mix this up and say, you know, is this something that aliens are doing or whatever, you know, or can we stop it?
No.
If this, you know, and the reason I'll say it's no is because this is ordained, I'm going to say it's ordained of God.
It's going to happen.
And there's a particular reason it's going to happen.
All the prophets spoke of this.
You know, Jesus spoke of it.
He spoke of it continually, or not continually, but a number of times.
Exactly the same events I'm talking about.
I'm just talking about the mechanism.
Well, whether you believe it is God, or you believe it is nature, or you believe it is God with his hand in nature, I don't think it makes any difference.
It doesn't happen.
Yeah, exactly right.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Charles Cagle and Art Bell.
Good morning.
Hello there.
Hello, me?
Yes, you, you, you.
Wow!
I've been trying to get a hold of you since Friday!
Okay, well here you are.
Where are you calling from?
Seattle.
Seattle, alright.
And since I guess the subject seems to have changed since Friday, I guess I better ask a question of your guest.
Oh, that'd be good.
Yeah, um, Charles, I've been listening to you quite avidly, and it seems that you're totally and completely convinced that something's going to happen.
You just don't know what.
Oh no, he does know what, and he's been telling us.
Well, uh, but precisely what?
Well, how much more precise do you need?
A date?
Well, that cannot be known.
We are entering Solar Cycle 23.
It looks like it may be one of the most active that we have ever recorded.
Now, any time during this cycle, there could be a jecta that could produce the effect that he has described painstakingly tonight, and you can read about it on the webpage.
He's not saying, on such and such date, this is going to occur.
He's not a prophet.
He's just saying, here's the effect.
And here we are in Solar Cycle 23, so you're not going to get a date.
I understand that.
Well, no, you don't.
You said, I want a date.
No, I was just saying that a date would be nice.
Sorry, no date.
I understand that.
OK.
But my main question has to do with, it seems that Charles is somewhat fearful of the coming events.
Oh, I don't know if I would describe his presentation as fearful.
I might be a little fearful.
Indeed.
Well, considering it's going to kill off probably two-thirds of the population of the world.
Um, well... I would expect... You can't give me a date.
You couldn't give me a number on that either.
Ah, yes, he can.
He just did.
You're missing it on All-Town Scholar.
He said he couldn't give a date.
He said it could occur on the upside or the downside of solar cycle 23.
And with respect to the amount of damage or deaths, he just gave you a number.
I thought I just wasn't listening.
Now, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Hi.
How you doing there, Art?
Okay.
This is Clark.
I'm calling from Biloxi, Mississippi.
Yes, sir.
You know, this is a real interesting program.
I've had, well, a rather large track of land out here, and me and my neighbors seen these basketball-sized lights that you were talking about earlier.
Ball lightning.
That's right.
And, well, what they seem to call ball lightning, whatever.
But the first few settings, we noticed that these balls of light always pollute or come after a lot of activity over here at Keesler Air Force Base.
One of my neighbors even experienced an encounter with a UFO and claimed that he saw three of these ball lightning deals come out.
My question is pretty obvious, I guess.
Why is it these balls of lightning can't be intelligent?
Because ones I've seen seem rather intelligent in their movements, and I'll listen off the air, I guess.
All right.
Well, it certainly is true, Charles, that associated with a lot of UFO sightings have been what appear to be ball lightning.
They have lights that appear on a regular basis and appear to be ball lightning down in Texas and certain areas.
And would it be reasonable to suggest that near large electromagnetic fields produced by whatever, ball lightning would not be as unusual a phenomenon?
No, I don't think that it would be unusual to be produced anytime you've got, if you have a large magnetic field that's changing rapidly, then it induces a large electric field, which then induces a current, which then could produce one.
And ball lightning has been known, as I said earlier, to go down chimneys and come roaring out of fireplaces and go through windows and all the rest of it.
Oh, there's no question that there's... And the human mind tends to want to try to make sense out of nonsense.
I don't think there's actual intelligence involved.
I mean, what do I know?
Maybe there is.
But I think we're just associating this kind of weird action with some sort of intellect.
Well, you know, that's a question I actually, you know, really studied that very intensely for a while because, you know, there seems to be, yes, I'm not going to rule it out.
And the reason I'm not, It's because I mentioned what is at the core of these things is a time gradient field, which is the same thing as eternity.
We always speak of God who exists in the midst of eternity as a very non-local God.
That's a physical term, non-localism.
We have a very large structure that's just like this, a ball lightning type structure that's on the burning bush.
Is there intelligence in there?
You bet.
As you approach that, then you approach eternity.
You come right in, basically, into the presence of God.
Now, you know, this particular structure also corresponds to a general structure of any intellectual being, I would suspect.
You know, if this archetype form conforms to the structure of, let's say, the general structure of the universe, Then you would see that at any different level.
Could it be?
Certainly.
But it gets off into such a weird area.
I would say yes, that it could.
All right, I'll just take a yes.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Good morning.
This is Vince in Chicago.
Hi, Vince.
First, a little sideline question.
You said Richard Holden's going to be coming on.
Talk about the Pathfinder.
Yes, probably next week would be a good guess, Vince.
I'm really wondering about that extra fuel that they've been carrying on here.
Yes, I know.
You can ask him next week.
Okay.
Charles, as we get closer to this possible pole reversal, Yeah.
Do you have any expectations about things that just the everyday person might notice that we might be getting closer to?
And by that, like electrical devices, like computers going on the fritz or... Yeah.
Any sort of... Especially computers going on the fritz.
I'll tell you exactly what to look for.
Okay.
You start looking for a rapid variation in your compass.
And like I said, within a few days, you start seeing the field go down.
In other words, when we get hit by a CME, the first thing that's going to happen is that we'll get a change in the magnetic field.
The rate of change causes all sorts of associated phenomena.
For example, you'll get Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis down in Australia or off the southern continent.
Somebody sent a fax saying, did you know Art that Aurora Borealis, generally thought to be At a great altitude, it has been observed actually near the ground.
It's been seen on the ground, actually.
On the ground.
Really?
Yeah.
There are some cases where people have claimed it's come right down to the ground.
So, anyway, so we watch for... So you look for, as soon as you see the field, you know, if you get an announcement, you hear an announcement on the radio that the Earth's magnetic field appears to be changing rapidly.
You know, personally, if I lived in Hawaii, I'd fly out.
Do you think... This is kind of a hard question, or an easy one, I don't know.
If it did occur, would it really be made public?
Well, you get a compass.
You know, they cost a buck at your local dine store.
Yeah, see, that's what worries me.
I told you now, about three times a year we've been getting these brief shifts of several
degrees which last anywhere from a day or two to three, and then suddenly it snaps back.
Any way you can explain that?
Well, I think it's just a variation.
You know, for example, when we do get hit by a CME, and we got hit by several a few days ago, and so you do get a variation in the field, and when that happens, you very well could see some sort of a declination appear temporarily, but I wouldn't go out and commit suicide as soon as I saw my compass turn three degrees.
I would.
Oh, look, I wouldn't anyway.
I'd stick around.
You know, I want to see the story play out.
It will, and it'll play out.
And I think that, you know, it's a foregone thing.
It's going to happen, and it's happened many times before.
What I'm saying is that, you know, we're told to look for the signs.
The signs are here.
They're here in spades.
All right.
Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Good morning.
Good morning, gentlemen.
I tuned in a little bit late.
OK, where are you?
I'm in Denver.
Denver, OK.
And from what I've gathered so far, the thing that makes this planet vulnerable to these cosmic forces is a lowering of our magnetic fields.
Is that correct?
Yes.
OK, then my question, I guess, is would it not be possible to simulate a magnetic field?
I agree with Charles.
I think this is going to happen.
With all of our technology, can't we synthesize a shield for ourselves?
Interesting question.
It is an interesting question.
In other words, if, yes, if we are protected by the Earth's magnetic field and it were to collapse, would there be any way to artificially create a field that would give us some temporary protection against more ejecta?
No, that's beyond our technology and it's beyond our, you know, we don't have that much power.
We couldn't combine all the generating plants in the world and generate spit enough to produce something that could counteract this.
It's a process.
It's going to happen.
It's not a case of something that... It's kind of like an ant where a wave of the sea comes and he's not going to hold it back.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle, good morning, where are you please?
I'm near Wilmington, North Carolina.
Okay, on the air you are, so go ahead.
I would like to ask your guest, well actually I've written a right many books, but I haven't gotten anything on a national level, and he and I have kind of gotten into what could be called unconventional knowledge, or not particularly college knowledge, and I was wondering how he got his first Got interested in the subject that he's interested in.
Okay, well that's an easy answer.
And the answer is that he began to study ball lightning.
And from the physics of ball lightning, he began to understand the physics of the planet that we live on and the sun that shines in our eyes for X number of hours per day.
and applied all of that to his conclusions which by the way are readily available on my website to see and that is what I recommend that everybody go on up there who can or go to a library and go to my website and just click on the name Charles Cagle and it'll take you immediately to an entire page painstakingly put together by my webmaster from material that Charles sent And you can read about it.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Cagle.
Hi.
Hey Art.
Where are you?
I'm in San Antonio.
San Antonio, alright.
Yeah, was there a question that just asked about if we had enough power to generate our own magnetic field?
Right.
I was thinking right now, has anybody asked a question about HAARP or anything?
No, but we can, there is of course HAARP, which is an ionospheric project.
Well, as a matter of fact, why don't we ask?
Do you know anything about HAARP, Charles?
Well, I know that, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, what I've read on the websites, you know, and what I've read is that, you know, you've got some big antenna systems that, you know, ostensibly could be used to begin oscillating the, actually the geomagnetic field.
Whether or not Personally, I think it's ill-advised to mess with it, but you know that's... I share that, and of course Nick Begich, Dr. Begich does, who wrote Angels Don't Play This Harp, and they are proposing to focus enormous amounts of energy, not widely dispersed on the ionosphere as you would normally do with a radio transmission, but the other way around, starting as a wide beam and ending as a narrow beam, literally burning a hole in the ionosphere, and I don't much like the idea myself.
Listen, Charles, what I'm going to do is ask everybody to review my website with all of your material on it.
And I'm going to have you back in a week or so, if you're willing.
And we will cover this more extensively.
It'll give everybody out there about a week to try and absorb what it is you've got on the website.
It takes a little thought.
So how about that?
Would you be willing to come back and say a week?
Sure.
Yeah, in the meantime, you could also direct them To my website, which you have done, I think.
Oh, yes.
We've got a link on there.
Yeah.
All right.
You know, there are some solutions that we can use and some technology that's right on the horizon that came right out of the same study.
All right, my friend.
Listen, we're out of time, but I thank you.
It has been extremely educational.
And personally, I think you're dead flat on the mark.
So keep it up and we'll have you back.
Charles, thank you.
OK.
Take care.
That is Charles Cagle.
And that should give you something to think about.
Open lines when we come back.
I'm Art Bell.
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