Art Bell welcomes Jim De La Toso, who debunks the 1997 Phoenix Lights as neither flares nor planes, citing 106 minutes of unexplained behavior and NASA/DARPA-like visitors. Astronaut Story Musgrave contradicts his own past claims, denying gray aliens despite evasive answers about STS-80 footage showing plasma flares. Callers report bizarre phenomena—blue flashes in Arizona, a 1995 "pyramid" connection, and an 1800s Texas spaceship crash—while Bell hints at a future disclosure of alien tech secrecy. The episode blends UFO skepticism with AI warnings and weather anomalies, leaving listeners questioning official narratives and the boundaries between science and the unexplained. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across all this wide expanse of land and sea, stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, right over country to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole and worldwide.
On E-Old Internet, this is Coast Coast AM, Top of the Morning.
I'm Mark Bell, and it's going to be an open-line kind of night tonight to give you a little idea of some of what I have planned.
Coming up Wednesday, I know that a lot of you have been waiting for it.
So coming up Wednesday is Robert's Ghost Wolf, and I'm looking forward to that one myself.
Coming up Thursday is one that I cannot yet promote.
I'll be telling you about it, oh, say Wednesday or so, but it involves an earth-shaking announcement is the way the guest that I cannot name right now put it.
And there are any number of things that we can talk about this evening.
Yesterday, I made another attempt on Dreamland to do a program on animal communication.
And I don't know that it came off at all the way I wanted it to.
And I'm really, it's strange.
I've tried, I've made several attempts on Dreamland to do a program on exactly that.
And while it was interesting, it still really didn't go where I wanted it to go.
And so if any of you, I am convinced, you see, that communication with animals is possible.
And so if any of you have any comments, and oh, by the way, I know what else I want to do.
It was about a week ago, somebody called me with a tape recording of their cat, which distinctly demanded in a voice, wet food versus dry food.
And was able to say several other things.
So if any of you have pets, short of parrots, that are capable of talking, dogs or cats that can talk, which you have captured either on tape or can provide for us live, usually a very difficult thing to do, you know, hold the phone down there, hear Fido say something, and of course he's not going to.
So many of you may have captured it on tape.
I would love to hear it.
The wet food demand was a riot last week, and I would love to see if we could get any others.
But on the more serious side of pet communication, I do believe it is possible.
I have cats, which I thoroughly believe that I am able to communicate with.
A lot of people consider that to be purely Looney Tunes.
Of course, they think I'm Looney Tunes anyway, so it doesn't much matter, I suppose.
But I am very interested in this subject and somebody I could pursue it with out there.
Yesterday's program was interesting, but still not down the road that I want to go.
And one of these days in that arena, I will succeed.
To give you an overview of what is occurring nationally with regard to surveys, talk radio remains the number one format.
But nationally, talk radio took about, well, I'm not going to attach a percentage to it, but the ratings for talk radio in general in this last survey book went down.
Almost, almost, I say, across the board.
There are a few exceptions to that, and I am thankfully one of them.
Our ratings have either maintained their high level or gone even higher.
The most recent example of that is near me, and I want to congratulate Alan Eisensen and KXNT in Las Vegas.
And I got a very excited call from Alan earlier today, and he said, Art, you're not going to believe the numbers.
He said, in some hours, you've got a 19-plus share.
And while that may not mean a lot to non-radio type people, trust me, it means a lot.
And we, from coast to coast, from the west coast through the Midwest to the east, are collecting double-digit shares.
Now, that's good.
For those of you who don't know, that's really, really, really good.
Double-digit shares, you know, particularly in large markets like LA, San Francisco, Chicago, and so forth and so on.
Double-digit shares are considered very cool, and program directors and managers and stuff like that really like them.
So it has gone that way for us, and not so well for a lot of the rest of talk radio across the nation nationally when you look at the picture.
And I think the reason is the myopic concentration on the political world at a time when the political world is about as interesting as watching grass grow.
But that's just my own personal opinion.
And I do believe it is borne out in the latest numbers.
We had a very interesting weekend in more ways than one.
On Saturday, now that it's done, so I can tell you Daniel Brinkley came To visit, and we spent a quiet afternoon with Daniel, or as quiet as one ever has, with Daniel Brinkley.
Daniel Brinkley is a very, very interesting person.
As you know, he has twice died.
Daniel, when you see him in person, you will see that all of the hair has permanently been burned from his body.
As you know, he actually was struck by lightning and caught on fire.
Caught on fire.
Clinically died.
And Mr. Brinkley has, beyond any question, and I can attest to this personally, has powers, intuitive powers, that are a little bit frightening and can indeed read your mind.
Now, while there is no way I can prove this to you, I suppose in a way, perhaps we could do a program that would prove it to you.
And maybe we will.
But he demonstrated to my wife and myself that conclusively he could read minds.
And I guess I won't go beyond that.
But it is, I will tell you right now, it is a very unnerving experience.
Danien is a very good friend.
But to have somebody capable of looking at your thought process, believe me, is some kind of unnerving process.
Anyway, after Danion left, the following day, we were struck by lightning.
We had a, oh boy, we had a whipper snapper of a storm come through here.
And we were sitting in a living room.
This was prior to airtime for Dreamland.
And suddenly there was a bright flash and a giant pop.
It sounded like a, well from the other room it sounded like a big balloon exploding or something.
And that took out one of our satellite receivers, so while the network and all of you can hear me, I cannot hear the network, which I suppose is okay.
It will be replaced quickly, but the smell of smoke was throughout the house.
And it was a pretty eerie experience, let me tell you.
Pretty eerie.
And then we had another very interesting visitor on Sunday.
And I'll tell you about him.
Let me pop through a few of the items that we might talk about.
Republicans and the White House say they have reached a deal.
They've actually reached a deal to balance the federal budget and cut taxes by about $90 billion over the next five years.
Everybody involved is suggesting they are very pleased.
The vote could occur as early as this week to confirm the deal.
Massachusetts Governor Weld is resigning, hoping to be the new representative from the U.S. government to Mexico.
Probably, though, over the dead body of Senator Helms, who doesn't think Weld is hard enough on drugs and also has a pretty personal gripe against him because Weld, of all things, took off against Jesse not long ago.
Not a wise idea since Jesse holds the power of approval or even consideration of Governor Weld to assume that position.
The Justice Department now says it made, quote, a major error in judgment, end quote, that could have violated Richard Jewell's rights when they interviewed him after last July's Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta.
A major error in judgment.
Said it may have deprived Jewell of his rights.
So they continue to apologize.
Bill Cosby says that he is going to take a DNA test to determine if he really is the father of a woman who was just convicted last week of trying to extort millions of dollars from him.
And so I guess we will all know soon if she really is his daughter.
There was a very interesting program on the Fox Network that I have not yet caught called UFO's The Best Evidence.
No, that isn't quite it.
It was something like that.
Actually, UFO's The Best Evidence was George Knapp's original title.
But it was something like that.
And it showed very clear, well-defined shots of unidentified aircraft flitting about.
And you are welcome to react to that if you wish.
I wonder if you thought it convincing.
The following from the Associated Press Dateline, Tokyo.
Science fiction came much closer to science fact Monday.
Brace yourself when the Honda Motor Company introduced a two-legged robot, robot that can walk, reconnoiter, even do simple fix-it jobs.
The six-foot, 462-pound P2 has two arms, two legs, a squarish head, small platforms for feet, and resembles a man in a boxy spacesuit.
As in the U.S. Sojourner rover currently picking its way around the rocks on Mars, the P2 circuitry is sophisticated enough to decide for itself when to try to step over an obstacle and when to look for and try another route.
Now, let me think about this.
P2 weighs how much?
6 foot, 462 pounds.
In other words, if you were to make a mistake and step on one of my little kitty cats, you'd have kitty cat mush.
Anyway, it allows it to do uncannily human-seeming things, such as finding a work site, pushing a cart to it, tightening a loose bolt there, all without continuous radio control.
It only needs a simple initial command.
In other words, begin.
P2 can walk stairs, forward, or backward.
Oh my.
Can keep its balance if given a shove.
I wonder if it would shove back, even on a slope it has not been on before.
Susumu Taki, a robotics professor at Tokyo University who led the Honda research team, likened it to the androids of science fiction.
A truly humanoid robot was always considered to be just a dream or a product of fiction.
But we have now proven it to be reality, he said.
Unlike the most frightening robots of science fiction, P2 only does what it is told to do.
It can be switched to radio control at any time or simply turned off.
Honda said in a press release that it will continue to make P2, which Taki began building over a year ago, more sophisticated and find more practical uses for it.
Now, when you put this together with the initiation of the first intelligent machine that we discussed last week, and you consider the application, and when I say intelligent,
I mean sentient, a machine that can think we are right there, and you put it in a robot body, you have a sentient being, don't you?
And a pretty big heavy one at that.
Did you ever imagine it would move so quickly, this technology of ours?
I have news of the first case of huntavirus being passed from person to person in southern Argentina.
And somehow I am not surprised about that, are you?
Huntavirus, of course, generally was transmitted by rodents, generally in the Four Corners area.
And now, all of a sudden, down in Argentina, they are finding cases of huntavirus being transmitted from people to people.
It's occurred in a hospital down there.
And I think there is going to be more and more and more of this kind of thing.
And I think it's Mother Earth kicking back, and we'll talk a little bit about that if you want.
So anyway, it's going to be open lines.
I've got a lot more material here, and I'll sort of dribble it out to you as the night continues.
But we'll talk about anything you want.
Go in any direction you like.
Now remember, if anybody out there has a recording of their pet talking, I want to hear it.
I thought that would be fun to pursue.
unidentified
*Skiss*
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
Music Linda Moulton Howe yesterday had an extremely, extremely disturbing report on Dreamland.
We have previously covered fisteria, which is something affecting fish in the North Carolina estuaries and now into the Atlantic Ocean as well.
And she had a guest which said that there are now millions of fish and now crabs being caught with large open bleeding sores in that area.
And now not just North Carolina, but beginning to spread up and down the coast.
It is a very alarming, very serious situation.
And, you know, I'm sitting here thinking about it.
I probably should have canned that report so I could have played it back for you here.
She interviewed the doctor who's been doing that research in North Carolina.
And it is apparently spreading and worsening at a very rapid or even exponential rate.
Maybe we will dig out that report and I'll try to get it on the air for you.
You really need to hear it.
She sent me what she considers to be a little joke earlier today, which says, from the rapidly deteriorating environment to the crumbling cement walls around the phenomena, I am reminded of a quote from the writer George Leonard.
Your resistance to change is likely to reach its peak when significant change is imminent.
Let's hear that again.
Your resistance to change is likely to reach its peak when significant change is imminent.
In other words, your final resistance to change, whether it be an industrial-based change or whatever else, will finally change as you realize that something else is about to change.
And I think she was probably referring to the hysteria that she reported on.
I'm going to see what I can do.
I'm going to try.
I think I'm going to try and get some of that audio so we can repeat it for you.
Anyway, coming up all night long tonight, open lines.
I've got a fax here from SciTech, Ed Dames at SciTech regarding the Jean-Bern Benet Ramsey killer case in which he describes the killer, but I'm not going to air it until I get an okay from him.
I don't know if he meant this for air or not.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
Leave me this way, I keep the fire.
Oh I can't stay alive without your love.
Oh, baby, don't leave me this away.
I can't accept.
I'll surely miss your tender kiss.
Don't leave me this away.
Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you.
Now come down and do what you gotta do.
You're starting this fire down in my bowl.
Now can't you see it's fine?
In the eye of control.
Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
Dear Art, they showed a video clip of that robot tonight on CNN.
Absolutely frightening.
Little you see it.
It resembled a man so closely you could swear it was a man inside a boxy spacesuit.
The movements were fluid, not jerky.
It even stepped side to side.
They showed it climbing the stairs as well.
You're not going to believe your eyes.
Or this one, Mark.
I saw this robot clip on the news, and at first I thought it was someone in a suit.
Close examination, though, clearly showed it was a machine.
The robot moved with the gait of a human, had natural, balanced moves going up and down the stairs.
This was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen, Don in Arizona.
So I guess this one really has to be seen.
And my wife saw it and mentioned it to me.
and then I pulled the Associated Press story, but I have not as of yet seen it myself.
unidentified
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
And he came and sort of spent several hours with me yesterday and is going to do a profile piece that will appear in your newspaper there in Pittsburgh.
unidentified
Well, I sure wish they'd pick you up because it's really hard to get you in this area.
I guess we're down in the valley.
But what I wanted to ask you about, I remember you had Hoagland on a couple weeks ago.
I tuned it in, and he said that there was some unaccountable weight on the Sojourner probe.
And another thing I wanted to ask you, if you're going to have Colonel Corso on again, I was in Intelligence of Vietnam, and one of the primary, primary goals of the intelligence unit is translation.
And I was wondering if they had, like he said, the actual crash pieces, supposedly there were markings on there.
I'm interested in any and all of that, as you well know.
And so, yes, folks, I'll tell you what.
If anybody out there is an expert on Atlantis or the Ark of the Covenant or any of the rest of these very interesting things, contact me by mail or email.
I'm artbell at AOL.com or send me a fax three-page limit.
Anybody sending more than three pages, it'll never print out and I'll never see it and it is a waste.
So otherwise, my fax number is area code 702-727-8499.
Now, I don't think that the Good Father's birthday was the event in question.
That could have been predicted years ago.
I rather imagine it was a loss of contact with the Mars lander on the 20th.
And that's the event I think I would have held out.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hi, all right.
This is Raymond out in Michigan.
Hello.
I have a question about a previous guest, but first of all, I just want to ask you, I think a couple weeks ago, you mentioned something about being interviewed in Rolling Stone.
But what happened is during the course of the program, the audience managed to convince him, bless your little hearts, that if we did that, he would be charged with murder.
I've heard descriptions, just like the one you're telling me.
I've had my own experience.
This means to me that dogs, cats, other animals, maybe all animals, have souls.
Have an existence.
I don't know if maybe it's a word people are going to argue with when I say souls, but they have an afterlife, as do we, and maybe repetitive lives, as we may, if reincarnation is real.
And there are many, many profound questions that need to be answered quickly if what we believe may be true is true.
Well, that's certainly one immediate question, isn't it?
unidentified
Yeah, I was listening the other night on your program on Dreamland, and it was very interesting.
I don't know that I necessarily believe in the reincarnation between an animal, for example, being an animal and then going to a person and vice versa.
Well, I've heard about a lot of hypnotic regression into past lives, and I have never yet heard of one that has regressed into, you know, a dog or a cat or a cow or something.
So that would tend to give support to that concept.
But nevertheless, if these animals have afterlives and have some sort of substance that survives their physical death, then we need to rethink a lot of things about animals.
unidentified
Oh, I believe so.
And I also think it depends very much on the sensitivity of the owner of the animal to the animal.
There are people all the time who lose their animals and don't necessarily say they feel their presence afterwards.
I think each of us has a certain sensitivity to our animals.
And you said several times on the air that you are very much a cat lover.
And we were very attached to our dog.
And I think that just that attachment somehow, well, I'll give you an example.
I would go to the grocery store several times, and if I had nothing for the dog, he wouldn't be on the deck waiting for me at the door.
But that dog instinctively would know when I would come home from the grocery store and I had bones or treats for him, he would be standing at my glass door waiting for me.
And now, even when I'm not on the air, I just play it again and again until usually until my ears bleed.
Good morning, we're in open lines.
Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
We're talking about a robot, you may have seen it, on CNN in Japan, that moves just like a human being and doesn't require radio control.
You just turn it on and it goes.
I'll read you the official story as we move through the night.
We're getting a lot of reaction to that.
People are freaked out.
Anyway, back to open lines in a moment.
Oh, yes, also, we had some singing dogs.
Well, they were trying to sing.
They definitely didn't harmonize, but I think they were doing their very best.
So if you have a dog or a cat, especially cats are cool, that talks and you have it on tape, get the tape ready and call me up.
I may even open a special talking animals line.
Maybe I ought to do that.
Yeah, let me do that.
Why don't we do that?
A talking animals line.
I will now hereby restrict what is normally ye old first-time caller's line, and we'll make it the talking animals line.
So if you have a talking, now not parrots.
Everybody knows parrots can talk.
So no parrots.
But if you've got a dog, a cat, a cow, a tiger, any other form of animal that actually says something, and no doubt you've recorded it because it would be amazing to be able to play back for people.
So if that's you, if you've got a talking animal, call me on my exclusive talking animal line.
unidentified
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
okay here we go into the land of the unknown talk radio on i've got several Jim De La Toso, if you're out there, you should call me.
Because I just got a fax.
I can't verify it.
It's from Karen in Mysterious Sedona, Arizona, which says, Art, our Fox affiliate in Phoenix, at their 9 p.m. news, ran a story, get this folks, with Jim De La Toso concerning the Phoenix lights.
He stated that he had been visited by, quote, the real men in black and was supposedly told that some scientists at NASA believed the lights were in fact extraterrestrial and possibly a form of thought ball.
They felt it could travel in hyperdimensional ways faster than light.
The announcer at the end of the segment said this was not confirmed by an official at NASA.
Do you think they are testing our reaction, Karen, in Sedona?
Well, then have it, I mean her, call this number and we will indeed get both of them, I guess, on the air.
Now don't take advantage of that line.
Now, this is only for people who either A, have recordings, or B, have their animal prepared to say something to us live, which is very problematic, of course.
Yet that there's somebody, that there are people living on there.
Now, I get a question, and I want your undivided opinion about this.
How could there be people living on Venus if it's true that the temperature, surface temperature, is about 900 degrees?
And when I brought this up on the astronomy chat room of a popular bulletin board here in Las Vegas, and I mentioned your name, everybody says, well, Art Bell is a nut, Art Bell is a crackpot, Art Bell is this, because everybody believes that Venus, it's way too hot.
But again, to imagine that only a human being which survives in a very narrow temperature range would be the construct of life on another planet or in another system is rather arrogant and myopic-minded.
Isn't it?
There might be all sorts of life forms that survive in different ways.
They did a good job of portraying many of the things they were showing.
There was one in particular that had caught my attention because earlier in the day I was listening to a program, an earlier program of yours from June when you were talking to Doug Ruby called Crop Circles.
And one of the, part of the footage that they had showed this evening on the video was from Brazil, I believe.
I may be incorrect, but when you see it, you can take a look for it.
And the craft that they were showing was flashing various different shaped features as it was in the air.
And one of the crop circles you had mentioned that night with him was the one from Stonehenge.
It had just gone up on your website at that time.
And it was eerily familiar to the crop circle.
Some of the shapes that the craft that they had showed on the video was flashing.
And I thought it was pretty interesting to see that since I had just seen it today also.
So you might want to check that out when you see that.
When you get a chance to see the video.
But otherwise, I think they did a pretty good job.
Pastor Bradley, who faxes me every now and then, a PhD himself, a Jesuit, wrote the following.
Dear Art, with regard to the announcement concerning the robot, how long until someone goes to turn off one of these robots, and its hand reaches out, stops the person, and says, no.
unidentified
Yeah, always the fear of the robot turning against you.
Well, the first part is that about 10 days ago, a man in southwest Washington State, north and I think west of Vancouver, Washington, which is just across the river from me, died in hospital from hemorrhagic fever caused by hantavirus.
And if you add to that the Argentina story of the fact that down there they now are proving that the hantavirus is transferring from person to person.
unidentified
Very worrisome.
This man had vacuumed out a mouse nest in his house using a vacuum cleaner and wasn't wearing a dust mask or anything.
And they advised us that should you need to clean out a mouse nest you should use rags in what do you call it, the chlorine bleach.
So and we're not safe here in Oregon because of course mice can get into boxes of cereal and whatever on trucks and come across from manufacturing and processing.
I know but I mean imagine pouring your weedies right and sticking up from your bowl perhaps either prior to or after you've added the milk would be a furry little tail.
No, not there, but back on March 13th, it's really strange, especially when you look at what Deletoso is said to have said.
Now, I can't confirm that right now.
I've got to talk to Mr. Deletoso.
unidentified
That's strange.
You know, I didn't get a chance to ask Richard, but, you know, the thing about the, I guess Larry Hunter's out in Giza, or he was out in Giza, looking over the Great Pyramid there to see if there was this ceremony that was going to be going on.
I really find that kind of, I don't understand what the heck.
You know, Richard Hoagland had said that there's some high-profile people that were in the pyramid due to this secret dig, and I just can't understand what that's all about.
And frankly, I can't give you details except to say that it is Richard's contention that events at Giza, dates, and things going on at Giza have driven the NASA program, very specifically have driven the NASA program.
So you would have to listen very carefully to his show to understand that, and I'm certainly not the right guy to explain it.
The killer's current workplace, an industrial site which lies in a generally east-northeasterly direction from the murder site.
This facility is a large plant with a stack where acrid chemical smells are present.
What appears to be a rotary kiln is in operation at this location.
Other key information.
The killer often commingles with two other persons in this work environment, but particularly closely with a short, dark-haired, pot-bellied, middle-aged male.
This person may be aware of, or in some manner, participated along with the crime.
Respectfully, Ed Dames, President, SciTech.
So that's pretty specific stuff, folks.
unidentified
*Screams*
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
About a while back, I was in a fishing trip with my buddies, me and two of my friends, and we were sitting back, and one of us was getting wood, and the other two of us were still fishing at our lines in the water and everything.
And all of a sudden, it was a perfectly bright, clear night, stars out and everything, backfired and everything.
And a blue light.
It was just blue.
Lit up everything around everything.
There was no clouds.
It couldn't have been lightning.
Two of us seen it.
About an hour had gone by, I suppose.
No time.
We couldn't recall for any time at all.
One of us didn't even see it.
The other guy didn't see it whatsoever.
He couldn't recall what we were talking about.
Probably about four hours earlier in the day, there was a crop circle.
I'm not sure if it was a crop circle.
It might be what you want to call a crop circle.
Out in the middle of this field because we had to walk clear around a creek, probably about a half a mile to a mile radius, away from the lake, out towards just an abandoned field.
There was a great big circle out there, and there was no explanation for that whatsoever.
Nobody's ever walked back there, I'm sure, besides us.
And I was just wondering if maybe you know what anything like this could have been or something.
these are our sports and have you tried to electrically If you'll check my website, you'll see the scanning electron microscope cross-sections of them.
You'll see full pictures of the parts.
unidentified
The one particular test, have you tried to pass electricity from the magnesium to the bismuth?
Yeah, I know, but I have such a problem with that.
unidentified
It's an incredible act how he does.
Here's one flaw in his little game.
He says that he can receive information from the ghost, as I said.
He can make requests of the ghost for information.
But he also says the ghost can affect electrical devices.
He'll talk to one person and he'll say, you've been having trouble with your phone last night.
Yes, it was off and on, off and on.
He goes, yes.
Well, that's your dead grandmother.
can affect electrical devices.
So my question is...
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
That's not my point.
He says that my point is, if he can make requests of ghosts and that these ghosts can affect electrical devices, then could he request of a ghost to affect an electrical device under controlled scientific tests under conditions?
And I wrote him this letter.
I have his address and I asked him this question and I got back an order form for his tapes and videos and things.
I'd like to say something else in addition, if I could, about the Bermuda Triangle.
Yes.
I called up before and I guess you didn't think it was too interesting.
But here it is.
Again, all the eels of the world go to either the Devil Sea or the Bermuda Triangle in order to reproduce.
When they get there, they swim down to incredible depths.
And they're never seen again, living or dead.
It's in all the eel books.
If you read about eels, it's a scientific fact.
They never actually say Bermuda Triangle or the Devil's Sea, but they give you the locations on a map, and if you check the maps against the Devil's Sea slash Bermuda Triangle...
Remember that facts I read a little bit earlier about Jim De La Toso?
The person who said he had a visit from the men in black?
Well, they may not have been the men in black, but, you know, they were in the family.
I've got Jim De La Toso online.
in just a moment he'll tell you who he is what he does and uh...
unidentified
who probably get a pretty good idea why he got his visit uh...
uh...
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You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
I'm the president of a company called Village Labs.
We've been in business for about 25 years, priorly under two names, Computer Graphics Lab, A computer graphics design company and the Village Recorder, a world-famous rock and roll recording studio.
Both places have been noted throughout their history, each in their own industry, for innovative work.
The Village Recorder, home of Steely Dan, Super Tramp, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, and many rock and roll bands.
We were the innovators in flight simulator and classroom engine maintenance simulators for DARPA and movie colorization technologies that we developed and supercomputer installations and design technologies.
And we work a lot in the aerospace industry.
So with those two families of tools available since the late 70s, I've been interested in and participated in the testing of many pieces of evidence that seem to be part of the paranormal.
I got my hands on, because it happened in my own backyard, usually I test evidence for other investigators ranging from Marina Popovich of the former Soviet Union, Jaime Massan in Mexico.
All over the world, I've tested some of the more infamous cases.
You never hear about the ones where I find the hoax.
You only hear about the ones where someone has some story to sell or tell about the most recent sighting.
So when the Phoenix Lights case came about and a number of the investigators, including Bill Hamilton that I have a high regard for, got involved in the case, I was asked to and did indeed test the video and the pictures that came about as part of the evidence.
Well, we look for fraud, we look for hail-bop, we look for planets, we look for stars, we look for airplane lights, we look for flares over and over and over again.
And MUFON to the degree that they had collected names and followed up somewhat.
There were some controversies at the beginning about how the investigation should be conducted and what was a real investigation versus a club effort.
And we decided to proceed in our own way and investigated the evidence as it was available as well as following up on claims that were made by MUFON and other investigators and the National Guard and what have you.
We came to the conclusion that there was no possible way that these could be flares.
Flying in the face of MUFON's contention that they were flares, some misreports at the beginning that the National Guard had said that they were flares later.
Some are designed for heat, some are designed for light.
But generally speaking, they will light up the atmosphere.
They will light up the ground.
They each have their own purpose.
But I've been involved in optical science for a long time, even though there are many who say that I don't have a company, I'm not qualified.
Anyone who has ever actually been to Village Labs knows that we are a very sophisticated and highly regarded facility.
It is well within our means to test the detail of flares and to know that the red, green, and blue component of the lights are out of phase at different places around the light,
knowing that the optical characteristics of flares sputter ever so slightly, and that when you look at two thumbprints of a human, they are different from each other, but when you look at the difference between a thumb of one man and another, they are very different, and the thumb of a man and an ape, they are extremely different.
That is the difference between a flare and these unknown lights.
Yes, and I have a very good rapport, a very good dialogue and discussion with her.
The day that she released the information that she had discovered that the Maryland National Guard had probably released flares 35 miles away from the targeted sighting point in Phoenix,
she discussed with me the fact that she wondered if it was going to be all over the world, that the flares were now going to be embraced as the explanation for the entire two and a half hours of sightings.
And Discovery Channel was here for four days doing a detailed one-hour investigation of the investigation called the Anatomy of a UFO Sighting.
And they talked to everyone from Richard Motzer, who you've talked to before, to radio and television personalities to witnesses to pilots.
And they were exposed to the television, radio, and newspaper press who had reported on this, and Richard was over.
And it wasn't until he came to the lab and actually saw the testing itself that he knew, and it was blatant and obvious, that the flares, as videotaped by other investigators and by Channel 12, compared side by side with the unknown objects, were not even remotely close.
I have a lot of things to do in our day-to-day work, but I address the flares and the entire Phoenix lights issue because it was viewed of such incredible significance by others around the world.
And in my studies, I started seeing things in the unknown light objects that I have never seen in my optical analysis of anything before.
And I talked to a friend of mine that some of you may know of, David Froning, I've known for about 15 years, who is the director of advanced propulsion studies at McDonnell Douglas, and I know him quite well.
And we talked about it at length about a month after the incident happened.
And we decided that it wasn't a topic at the moment that would be meaningful to anyone in the UFO clubs or to any of the other investigators we were working with, and that there were some things that we were going to look into.
The flares issue we saw was going to be an item that MUFON was going to argue about, whether they were put up to it or they were jealous in doing it on their own, but it was going to be an issue, and that we had to have definitive proof that these were not flares.
We had no reason to publish a report on all of our findings at that time, even at this time, and to provide it to people who are still immersed in their own view.
You know, I have met hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of UFO investigators over the years, and I've, or more.
Has said again and again that he, for example, had a young astronomer who focused his telescope for a period of time on these lights and saw airplanes.
Mitch may be very adept and capable, and he seems like an astute and honest man.
And I believe, even though he shrugged and had his hands in his pocket a lot, body language notwithstanding, that I believe that he will stand by what he says he saw.
Now, A-10s or other airplanes, said they had straight wings, would not fly in a formation of nine with lights on.
And we stored that and said, let us say that anything that people reported may turn out to be true later.
So let's save all information as true.
Let's build a mathematics truth table and see what incident could possibly have come about that would account for what everyone claims that they saw.
Meanwhile, I'm making my calls in and around to people that I work with on a daily basis.
I still have a lot of aerospace collaborators, even though we work in the entertainment business too.
And I discovered that people were calling me back that ordinarily I work with in supercomputers or parallel computers or aerospace only and were asking about the Phoenix lights.
People high enough up in those companies that I knew it was not just curiosity.
And they knew from my other work that we know what we're doing at Village Labs.
And if we are looking into the lights and we're making statements about things, that there is merit to it.
So when I started getting phone calls from Texas and phone calls from Florida and phone calls from Maryland, it went on for about a week.
They announced that they were looking for Jim De Latoso and had some questions for me that they were on their lunch break.
They were dressed like people who go to work at a number of the government facilities here in town, not in suits.
When I discussed all of this with my friend Jim Schneibelt of Fox Channel 10 here in town, who was really perturbed about the national press last week because he saw them himself, he was perturbed about the flare stories.
He came over for a visit and I recounted to him when I showed him this 25-page document that I have and gave him a copy of.
We talked about whether or not it would go on the air.
It was in his words that he used the men in black.
To me, they were astute, forthright, precise, stern, firm, capable, and curious.
We'll take a quick break here, and we'll be right back with Jim De Latoso, who apparently has had a visit, and we'll try and get the details of that regarding the lights in Phoenix.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from July
Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
28, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
Bring your network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
You know, in the mix between the entertainment business and the technology business that we do, a lot of it has to do with the way that you set up the immediate relationships.
They looked vaguely familiar, and they were comfortable enough without being aggressive with being in there that it's like people that come backstage at a concert.
I can tell people that know how to not trip over the wires.
So it was light-hearted, but very precise.
And I dealt with it like someone telling me that the Moody Blues are getting back together again, and I need to pay attention for the show.
In any case, I said, okay, what is it about?
And he said, it would be to my advantage to listen.
I mean, this is very powerful what you're wanting me to read here.
And your contention is that the person who wrote this earlier paper is the person who wrote this.
And he said, then another one of the three said, yes, he asked us to bring it to you.
And I said, okay, well, I'll just have to look into this and study it.
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do next.
And I said, am I a candidate for something?
And then there was some other dialogue that we shouldn't discuss here that made note of the fact, I made note of the fact that they already knew things that I was surprised that they knew.
And I said, there were some other things that were said, and my final comment was, well, where should I discuss this?
And the third gentleman, who hadn't spoken at all, said, you'll know.
I said, that's very ambiguous.
I'll know.
He said, well, you've handled things very well up to now.
And I didn't know in what context that was.
UFO research.
But you know the degrees that these have happened because I've been involved with this for a long time.
And in certain circles where my work is regarded, I later assume that they knew of that.
And then subsequent phone calls that I've had, too, indicate a very high level of interest in the fact that I have access to and have the original tapes.
I deal with DARPA, I deal with the Army, I deal with contractors of the government such as TRW.
And there are so many stratas and layers of the government.
And when we would diagram those out, we would come to the conclusion that the octopus in the arm and the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are themselves changing at the same time that all agencies of the government now have people who grew up in the 60s who are in positions of authority.
I am certain that the person who asked them to come see me, who is at the very highest levels of NASA, is well aware of the fact that the Phoenix flights, for whatever reason, by whatever other agency,
has become an icon, must now be dealt with by those other agencies who compete with each other if the understanding, the knowledge, the wisdom that goes along with this entire affair is to be perpetrated.
You know, interestingly, Jim, one of the stories I read that said UFOs explained as flares, at the bottom of it said that the captain, I think it was the captain or whoever it was who talked about the flares, said these were flares designed to remain airborne for five minutes.
With a minimum of four separate events, and by multiple witnesses, we can claim evidence of 10 events.
Remember, eyewitness reports are sufficient evidence to put a man in jail for life.
Sure.
In a UFO incident, even pilots that we have on the ground who reported what they saw in the air and claimed that it was not a legion of airplanes or flares are now discounted.
Well, it sure isn't for a lack of newspaper stories claiming that, and ridicule emanating from certain people who do talk in Phoenix and so forth and so forth.
Yeah, and, you know, this man that was just on interviewing, it's funny because, you know, he talked about a studio in which a lot of musicians came out of.
And I'd like to talk about some beginning and endings that took place in 1995 that are, you had the beginning of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which, by the way, that's a pyramid.
Well, the idea is, like when you take St. Louis and you take St. Lou and you take that "is" and you put it in front of "real" that's "isreal" all the tribes of the children of Israel.
What I'm coming across with is with Richard Hoagland who had all the...
Well, all I'm saying is there was events that took place that measure beginnings and endings in Cleveland, Ohio, which is kind of a biblical type or a theological type.
All right, well, this is an ending because we're at the top of the hour, and I have no idea what that man just said to us.
But sometimes that happens with Richard, too.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
The trip back in time.
And I think the sun's on your mind Ooh, see that girl, watch that scene Beggin'the dancing queen Beggin'the dancing queen Shining islands of nights alone.
Looking out for a place to go We're the played by music Getting in between You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere Inside, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 28, 1997.
Tell you on in a moment, we're going to the Hawaiian Islands for a very special reason.
Has something to do with Story Musgrave.
That should keep you hooked.
unidentified
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First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
Just phenomenal knowledge.
I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
But, you know, I was listening to the show, and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
I think we do.
I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
It's going to be bumpy along the way.
It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
That's my take.
And you know what?
As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
So I went and interviewed him after the presentation.
He was signing autographs for the little kids who were there, and he has a pile of pictures.
And he's signing, you know, here, Story Musgrave.
And it's kind of like the Jimmy Carter story.
You know, your listener who said that he kind of got Jimmy Carter's attention.
Here, I have to butt in because I only have a certain amount of time.
I have a TV camera.
And I said, Dr. Musgrave, excuse me, may I get a few comments from you?
I've got to get my camera back.
He said, sure, fine.
So he's signing autographs.
I knelt down beside him.
And I first of all asked him about the environment.
What's his impression of the environment from looking at it at space?
And he told me, well, some missions is clean, some it's incredible dirty, and on and on and on.
And then I said, that was very interesting, what you said about aliens.
You seem to be out on the leading edge here.
I know that NASA is saying there might be microbes on Mars, but what about what you said about the aliens?
He said, well, I've been saying this for 30 years.
He said, you know, 30 years ago, if you said something like that, people would distance themselves from you.
15 years ago, there were some people who said, well, we need more of you that are willing to go out like this.
And today, and he just kind of let it hang there.
So then while I had him on camera, I wanted to ask him, because he seems like a very honest man, I wanted to ask him face to face if he had seen anything alien.
I said, Dr. Musgrave, I know someone with a top secret clearance who is affiliated with the military who had occasion to ask a general who had been on some space shuttle missions, General, have you seen anything alien up there?
And the general kind of gave him a wink and a nod and said, well, I can't confirm or deny anything.
I said, Dr. Musgrave, have you seen anything alien on the shuttle?
And he kind of changed a little bit.
He said, well, I've seen a lot of interesting things.
You know, ice crystals can behave very erratically when they're floating in space and firearms and on and on and on.
But he said, no, no, I've never seen anything alien.
Dude, I just got the feeling that he really would have liked to have said something.
Dick, have you seen the STS-80 yet video?
No, I haven't.
I'd love to see it.
I wish I had a copy of it because I'd take it there and play it for him.
The operators of the outside cameras on the shuttle are...
I mean, a city from space is sort of a little pixel, a dot.
And they are able to zoom in, and they zoom in on this city.
And at that point, you can see the city lights.
It's taking, oh, I don't know, maybe a fourth of the total screen.
So it's, you know, you're seeing the city quite well, the lights of the city.
And the camera sits there and waits and waits.
And in about a minute, something flares and flies up from Earth into space.
And I don't know how to describe it, except it was some sort of plasma shot of something, or some sort of craft that really took off.
It was obvious that whoever was operating the cameras on the shuttle knew this event was about to occur, where it was going to occur, and when.
And it is so startling.
And then that's only part of it.
The rest of it concern objects seen near the Terminator, you know, when they're going either from light to darkness or darkness to light, that simply defy all explanation.
And I would love to sit down with somebody like Story Musgrave and have him talk to us about these ice crystals, particularly the one that flew up from Earth from the city.
unidentified
Well, I'll tell you what.
I'll try to get to his, if I don't have a different assignment tomorrow, I'll try to get to his presentation.
And for those of you in Hawaii listening, it is at the Bishop Museum tomorrow at noon.
He'll be giving just, I mean, the alien stuff aside, just his shots from the space shuttle are stunning.
odd I where are you oh I'm Justin I'm in Joplin Missouri yes sir so we don't pick you up on any local stations here anymore so I'm listening to you out of WLS in Chicago good old WLS but anyways I was calling regarding the robots you were talking earlier about in Japan the humanoid formed robot thing yes okay well I was wondering have you ever read any of Isaac Asimov's robot stories before?
Okay, well you were mentioning the intelligent computer or whatever.
And I was figuring, well, if this technology is becoming more apparent, then I figure that maybe people should take another look at, for instance, Asimov's three laws of robotics or something like that in the future.
Sorry, I'm kind of losing my words here.
Well, you understand why I'm getting that, do you?
But because you were mentioning if you were trying to switch it off and it says no, I figure...
Yeah, I figure that they should really start planning this out again, you know, because like you said with the cloning, if the technology is there, they're going to go ahead and do it.
And as soon as the technology is available for them to make a sentient robot that could act on its own, somebody's going to do that too.
The Japanese have built a robot which moves with the fluid motion of a human being, can climb stairs, can operate basically on its own once turned on, or be operated by radio remote control, either one.
Here is, earlier in the program, I asked somebody to pretend you were the president giving a speech announcing to the world that alien life was real.
Somebody has sent the following outline of the president's speech to the nation, revelation of alien visitation.
My fellow Americans, let me take you back to 1947.
America had just emerged from the largest, most brutal war in mankind's history, but we had a tenuous peace.
The Soviet Union had clamped an iron curtain on Eastern Europe and had ambitions to conquer the world.
We had only one thing that held them at bay, the atomic bomb, the only bomb group that could deliver that weapon of peace was based in Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947.
Something indeed did crash near our bomb group at Roswell.
It was something incredibly advanced.
We at first were not sure if it was Soviets.
We just knew it was something beyond our own technology.
For this reason, for the good of the nation and the world, we clamped a lid of secrecy on.
Secrecy can be good for our country.
Think back to the Manhattan Project, which enabled us to end World War II.
We had to keep this alien technology secret to be sure it did not fall into the wrong hands.
We also felt people were not ready to learn that they were not alone.
Mistakes have been made.
Let me repeat that line.
Mistakes have been made.
Certain previous administrations have been heavy-handed in an effort to keep these secrets.
I am directing, and then it's garbled here.
Maybe it's meant to be garbled here.
He's saying, I guess I am directing that this information be immediately declassified.
The extraterrestrials mean us no harm.
Had they meant to harm us, they could have long ago.
Fellow Americans, do not be frightened by Hollywood portrayals of warlike aliens.
These extraterrestrials truly are our space brothers.
My fellow Americans, this is the most wonderful time in human history.
We are not alone.
This proves the awesome wonder of God's creation.
I now will show you a videotape of an actual extraterrestrial entity.
And then we will see an example of our own anti-gravity vehicles, which have been developed with the help of the extraterrestrials.
Roll tape.
So that's how one man thinks that, as a matter of fact, one man we just spoke to thinks that it may be announced to the world that they are here.
One day, in fact, ladies and gentlemen, it may happen very much like that.
I frequently wonder how far off that day really is, don't you?
Anybody else want to try and be a president announcing to the world that they have arrived?
Daryl from LA writes, of course, you know there is a massive difference between Richard Hoagland and this brimstone caller.
Richard Hoagland is rational and logical.
Between you and me, this caller, if allowed to continue, would have demonstrated a psychotic thought process disorder.
Well, he was the guy talking about Cleveland and rock and roll and St. Louis and Israel.
And as with Richard Hoagland, if I had had about another hour or two or three or four, we may have finally put it all together.
But I didn't have that long.
And so with the length of the phone call that he had, which under the circumstances was rather lengthy, in my professional opinion, I didn't understand one word of it.
And you are quite right, Daryl, in the case of Richard Hoagland, given enough time, it all does come together.
Many listeners don't listen carefully to Richard, and they don't listen long enough to get to the punchline.
But when it gets there, it's generally thought to be worth the wait.
So that's true.
But I had no idea, no earthly idea where that call was going.
Yeah, I just wondered if you could just describe and tell me what the actual function of it Well, I've heard that it's a device that was created in the early part of the century by a physicist that alters electric magnetic field.
I suppose they're suggesting that it's for defensive reasons, but who knows what it's for?
We've got photographs of it, as a matter of fact, on my website if you ever want to go look.
Just enter H-A-A-R-P, and I'm sure it'll take you to where there's a photograph of the HAARP antenna arrays.
It is an ionospheric heater.
That's what it's called.
The stated goals of HAARP are testing of communication and mapping of underground tunnels and bunkers.
Now, that, of course, means there would be a very, very great deal of radiation that would start out as a wide signal from Earth, but would focus at the ionosphere a very incredibly large amount of RF energy at certain frequencies, literally heating, if not punching a hole through, the ionosphere.
There are people concerned that this will cause weather modification, possibly bio effects on human beings who will experience the return radiation from the ionosphere.
And I have interviewed some number of times Dr. Nick Begich, who wrote a book called Angels Don't Play This Harp.
Maybe it's time we did that again, since many of you apparently are unsure of what harp is and what it isn't.
And we don't know for sure whether it will have the effects described as possible by Dr. Begich.
But the project is indeed going forward, so we shall see.
First time caller align, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, I've been trying to get through for quite a long time there.
No, but what I'm saying is, generally when people, I realize that, when people get through, though, they usually have something on their mind they want to talk about.
unidentified
Oh, definitely I do.
Definitely I do, sir.
Okay?
Well, first of all, I do go by the name of Olviser and Presley.
And the problem is I can call Graham in Great Britain, but the delay and the phone connections are so stinky that it makes an interview of substance very difficult.
I mean, I don't mind calling Great Britain to do an interview, but for some reason calling England, I mean, it's easier to call China.
unidentified
That's funny because I call England every now and then, and I get perfect.
Well, I'm not surprised because I'm sure you heard me talking about the vicious storms that we've had here over the Prump Valley.
unidentified
Yeah.
And we had some big storms here in Boulder City, and then from here I can pick up Kingman Radio, and they had the tornado watch, and then as the storm was moving toward Nevada, they had two more funnel clouds which did not touch down.
And they also had a lightning strike at Davis Dam that knocked out half the power for about six hours in northern Arizona.
My wife and I were standing outside yesterday morning looking at the cloud formation, looking at this terrible dark thing with a big roll cloud, and I said, hun, watch the formations carefully.
Look for a funnel cloud because this is exactly the kind of formation that will produce them.
there's too much about going on the ham rounds should be But there is a certain protocol with regard to ham radio that is sadly missing in a lot of the communications going on these days, and I don't really care to spotlight it for anything.
I would hope that it would let up.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
My voice is either barely dropped.
In the 1800s, there was a spaceship that crashed in Texas.
I used to have the article, and nobody ever investigates that.
Well, when you get it, be sure and send it along to me.
I'm not aware of anything.
Surely if there was a major incident rivaling or surpassing that of Roswell, 1800s or not, there should be some information about it.
So if you get it, pass it on.
I'll certainly give it to everybody.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
If the President was to make his announcement, the only way for it to be truly effective is if he stood beside Tom Brokhall and had Tom Brokhall make it for him.
Let's ask a little suggestion this morning for you, Art.
Good morning, Art, and enjoy the program very much.
I wanted to just put out a general inquiry as well as to put it in the form of a question to yourself.
If anybody out there has ever had a similar sighting to what myself and the family had on a vacation in North Lake Tahoe about 22 years ago, we were all out on the porch of a cabin that my parents had rented.
And since there aren't a lot of lights in that North Tahoe, there was not a lot of glare.
You could see a blank, nice blanket of stars, very clear view.
And there was doing what would be a dot-to-dot course between the various stars, just in a methodical way that indicated intelligence.
Well, but you see, you would have no real way of referencing where that object was with respect to the stars.
It could have been very close, traveling very short distances, but if you imagine that it was traveling from star to star, it would appear obviously to be traveling very vast distances.
So you would have to know how far away the object was from you.
unidentified
Well, right.
When you're talking about millions of light years, then depth perception could be a problem.
But I don't see how anyone, since we were relatively anonymous group on the back porch of this cabin, how anyone would have been able to pull off some sort of a stunt where they're just having an object that's in some sort of a lower elevation.
What he does is he grabs this furry toy mouse that I got him, and he runs through the place, and he makes this sound like the world is coming to an end.
Completely alarming, but at the same time, kind of, hey, I've got something.