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July 23, 1997 - Art Bell

02:42:50

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Day After Roswell - Col. Philip Corso - Dr. John Alexander

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, across all these time zones, stretching from the Hawaiian and Technic Island chains all the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole.
		Matter of fact, worldwide on the old internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Top of the morning, I'm Mark Bell.
		It should be a fascinating program.
		This morning, shortly, Dr. John Alexander in Las Vegas and Colonel Philip J. Corso, also in Las Vegas.
		And both of them, in their own right, are going to contribute much to your knowledge this morning.
		If you think that you understand what occurred at Roswell, or as a result of what occurred at Roswell, or a crash or recovered materials in New Mexico, maybe I better put it that way, because there really have been, we believe, several crashes in New Mexico, two, possibly even three.
		And Colonel Corso is a man who took ultimately technology gleaned from those crashes, or that crash, depending on what you believe, and infused it into American industry.
		And we'll try and develop this story for you.
		The Colonel is at a hotel where his telephone connection, unfortunately, is not very good.
		We're working on that.
		And so all of that coming up, hopefully, technical details on our side in a few moments.
		I'd like to welcome WRFC AM Radio in Athens, Georgia to the network.
		They're 960 on the dial in Athens, Georgia.
		Top of the morning to you.
		All right, first of all, Dr. John B. Alexander, a little bit of background on him educationally, the University of Nebraska at Omaha, BGS in Sociology 1971, Pepperdine University in 1975, an M.A. in education there.
		Walden University, a Ph.D. in education in 1980.
		University of California, Los Angeles School of Engineering and Applied Science Engineering Management Program in 1990.
		Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Sloan School of Management, Executive Program and Management of Complex Organizations in 1991.
		And Harvard University, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Program for Senior Executives in National and International Security, 1993.
		Dr. Alexander has been an investigator of, a developer of, non-lethal warfare systems.
		He is an absolutely fascinating person, and I trust that we have him on the line.
		Dr. Alexander?
		Great.
		Good.
		We've got you.
		You know what I think, Doctor?
		I think I should allow you to introduce Colonel Corso, if you would, and tell this audience.
		Now, we had the Colonel, of course, on Dreamland, but this audience is larger.
		Many people will not know who Colonel Corso is.
		They might know he's got a book called The Day After Roswell, and that might be about all they know.
		What would you say of Colonel Corso beyond that?
unidentified		Well, I first met Colonel Corso about a year ago, and he came to us with a very unusual story, and that had to do, of course, with alien technology and the things that he has written about in his book.
		One of the things that struck us, of course, was his credentials.
		And, of course, sometimes people fake them.
		So I spent a week in Washington checking out his background.
		And I went to the Pentagon, the National Archives, the Army military history.
		I also went to the Army War College because a key person in all the things that he talks about is a Lieutenant General Art Trudeau.
		And Trudeau in the Army and military and all was a legend.
		In fact, he was so well known that when the Army started doing their oral histories, he was one of the first eight people to be interviewed.
		Now, where this gets important is that during this interview, Phil Corso sat in every session with the general.
		So here it is, 20 years after they both retired, and they still remained very close friends.
		And one of the stories is he actually got his boss fired at one time, which is not usually career-enhancing, but survived that and remained to be very close friends.
		So what I can say is when Phil says he was in the National Security Council, he was in this foreign technology division in the Pentagon, this should not be confused with the thing at Wright-Patterson.
		This was a small Army thing.
		Basically, it was Phil and a position that he held until he retired looking at foreign materiel.
		And of course, he claims that this, some of it at least, was from the crash saucer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would be fair to say the Colonel is a former Army intelligence officer.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		He worked with a heavy background research and development.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's see if we can bring him on.
		Colonel, are you there?
		Uh-oh, I fear that we have lost the Colonel, and I suspect, Doctor, that what they're doing is changing his phone out as we requested they do, and it may be we're trying to get a better connection.
		Anyway, I've got a little bit more on the Colonel, and I'd like to read it.
		Former intelligence officer, yes, part of the Allied occupation forces in Rome from 1944 through 1947.
		At the end of World War II, Operation Paperclip, which brought German rocket scientists to the United States.
		During the Korean War, he served under General MacArthur, and from 1953 through 1957 as a member of the National Security Council under President Eisenhower.
		All of this, by the way, once again, ladies and gentlemen, has been very, very carefully checked out.
		It was in 1961 that Colonel Corso was appointed chief of the Army's Foreign Technology Division by Lieutenant General Arthur Trudeau.
		You just heard about that.
		There he worked in research and development, R ⁇ D, translating classified weapons design plans into defense contracts.
		It was then, on a certain fateful day, as the Colonel tells it, that a file cabinet was wheeled into his office, the contents of which he was asked to examine by Trudeau.
		Corso was advised the contents were not, quote, run-of-the-mill foreign stuff, unquote, and was suggestively told to research the Roswell file before writing up his summary.
		Among the items in the cabinet, the colonel says he found a mysterious shoebox of tangled wires, a dull, grayish, silvery foil like a swatch of cloth that he was unable to fold, bend over, tear, or wad up, but that bounded right back into its original shape without any crease.
		I wonder if any of you recall from the movie that exact description visually you saw that material in the movie Roswell.
		And though it was a dramatic reenactment, that was obviously very much like we have described here.
		And that is just the beginning.
		So there are many, many questions.
		We're going to take an additional break here because we're going to try to get the Colonel back on the line again and see if the hotel has his telephone situation worked out.
		So we'll do that.
		And with fingers crossed, Colonel Corso, when we return.
		All right.
		I think that we may have accomplished our goal.
		I certainly hope so.
		I believe now in Las Vegas, here is Colonel Corso.
		Are you there, Colonel?
		He says.
		Now, we've lost him again.
		I do not understand that.
		All right, let's hold on.
		Dr. Alexander, are you still there?
		So we've lost Dr. Alexander as well.
		Well, well, well.
		I wonder what's going on here with our telephone system.
		Doctor, are you there?
		We may be having difficulties, folks, with our phone system.
		going to uh...
		uh...
		trial of this one more time and uh...
		take one more break and try and get this done you Let's try this one more time.
		Colonel Corzo, are you there?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we don't yet have Dr. Alexander back, but we definitely have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what I'd like you to do, if you'd be willing, is to add to what Dr. Alexander said and tell us about your own background.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		My background, well, I came in the Army in 1940, when the war started, right after Pearl Harbor.
		And I was drafted, and I went to officer school, and I came out as second lieutenant, and they put me in an artillery outfit.
		Right after that, I got transferred to intelligence.
		And I was sent to England, got promoted to first lieutenant, and I joined British MI-19, and they sent me to Cambridge for three weeks, and I learned intelligence under them.
		And from there, I went to North Africa.
		I became an interrogator of prisoners of war and worked with the British and with their commandos.
		Then I went to North Africa.
		And from North Africa, I participated in the landing at Salerno Harbor in Italy.
		Then I came up through Italy all the way to Cassino.
		And I was in the battles of Cassino.
		And from there, I went, I landed on the beach at Angio, and then went into Rome.
		And there they made me Assistant Chief of Staff G2 Intelligence and Intelligence Security Chief of Rome Area Command.
		And I participated there in reestablishing law and order.
		I destroyed the Gestapo and SS nets.
		And from there, I came back to Fort Riley, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your career, to the point that you met the general, was a very honorable and fairly normal military career.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was in combat at the time.
		We were fighting the war in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy.
		And then I joined the general.
		I went to Korea after that.
		I participated in the Korean War, and I joined MacArthur's staff over there.
		Then I came back, and when I came back to the States, I joined President Eisenhower as one of his military aides and National Security Council at the White House.
		And there my career sort of changed.
		I was in the White House for four years.
		And from there, I took command of a missile battalion, the Army's missile firing range at White Sands.
		Then I took a combat missile battalion, and I had atomic warheads even, to Germany.
		And I became, I stayed in command 18 months, and then I became Inspector General of the 7th Army.
		And from there, I came back to the United States, and General Trudeau had reorganized research and development of the Army.
		And He sent for me, and I joined him as a special assistant and chief of the Foreign Technology Division.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you had a very, very long military career before you met General Trudeau.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I met him when he was chief of Army Intelligence, and he sent me to the White House.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but at all this prior military service, Colonel, you never laid hands on any sort of extraterrestrial anything, or even had a hint of it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Everything you did was.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Not till I got to Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was very terrestrial and very normal and very heroic on it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Very normal, yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's where, I guess, with General Trudeau, in what year?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I joined him first.
		I was in Army intelligence, and he sent me to the White House.
		So I stayed there for four years.
		And then I came back to the United States in 1960, and I immediately joined him in research and development.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you do at the White House, Colonel?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I was on the policy.
		The Operations Coordinating Board was the policy guidance system.
		It investigated policy and made policy.
		And we were known as checked up on policy.
		And I actually chaired a lot of policy groups.
		And President Eisenhower, he, for example, assigned me a case was called the Volunteer Freedom Corps.
		Were we going to set up units in Germany Polish and Czech and Romanians flying a uniform with the uniform of their nation and we were going to harm them?
		And he wanted to put this, and I worked on that and put in, we already put it in effect, and then he had his heart attack, and it went sort of downhill.
		CIA opposed it, and the State Department opposed it.
		And I found out later that they used deceptive methods to oppose it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Alexander, you went to Washington and basically confirmed all of this background?
unidentified		Yes.
		And probably a bit more.
		As I said, this is high-level intrigue, but it turns out that it's really true.
		And that is that General Trudeau, as the Chief of Staff Intelligence, Army Chief of Staff Intelligence, the highest intelligence guy in the Army, was fired.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe I ought to say for what.
unidentified		There's high-level intrigue going on, and supposedly he had passed information to Adenauer, which the Dulles boys, who had CIA and state, were quite unhappy with.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Now, I was involved in that.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I can fill in the background if I guess John wants to do it.
unidentified		Go, you've got a better feel than I, Phil.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Well, what happened is I brought General Trudeau what we called the National Intelligence Estimates.
		These were the basis for U.S. policy, and they were made by CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is obviously going to get fairly complicated, and with all our phone troubles, we've made our way to the bottom of the hour.
		So this is exactly where I want to pick it up when we come back.
		So everybody just relax for a few moments, and back we will be.
		The story you're going to hear unfold is an absolutely amazing one.
		The background you're getting now is absolutely necessary to establish exactly who Colonel Corso is.
		By the way, his book debuts, no doubt, on the bestseller list at about number 12.
		It's called The Day After Roswell.
		And what you're going to learn this evening is how we put our hands on technology from those crashes.
		And even more interestingly, what we did with it.
		All of that coming up next.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Thank you.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Well, that was a bit of phone shuffling we went through.
		The hotel where the colonel is sent a maintenance man up, and we finally, I think, have everything straightened away.
		My guests are Dr. John Alexander and Colonel Philip J. Corso.
		And the story that is about to unfold, if you listen carefully, will, for many of you, remove all doubt of what has happened with regard to our technology, whether we've been visited by alien life, all of that wrapped up into what you're about to hear.
		So hang in there.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to, respectively, Dr. John Alexander in Las Vegas and Colonel Philip Corso.
		Gentlemen, you're both back on the air again.
		And Colonel, the comment was made that you got your boss fired.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, possibly I caused it.
		I was a trained intelligence officer by the British.
		And we had at the White House what we called national intelligence estimates.
		All were top secret.
		They were a basis for U.S. policy.
		CIA made them up.
		And they were supposed to be compiled from hard intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This, Colonel, is the kind Of thing that today you would see somebody walk in and put on the president's desk in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sort of report?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was sort of, but this was a basis for policy and later would become national policy.
unidentified		I might add, these are very comprehensive reports.
		These are based on long-term projections.
		A number of people look at them, and they are the intelligence community gets together and say this is our best estimate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are these, in effect, not daily intelligence reports?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not daily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But summations that lead to a firm policy change for our government.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Most of the estimates that I uncovered were vis-a-vis the Soviet Union and Communist bloc.
		And I found out, since I could check intelligence from the military sources, I found out that they were not based on intelligence.
		It was mostly ideology.
		And just two years ago, CIA admitted this in newspaper articles.
		For example, I went to the general one day on the loss of Formosa.
		And I told him there was a national intelligence estimate on that.
		It was not important.
		So the general called CIA, called Alan Dallas, and he told him no such estimate existed.
		And I pulled the copy of it out of my briefcase and handed it to him.
		And I won't repeat what the general said.
		You know, these estimates, I found out that they were not based on hard intelligence.
		They were based on their thinking and ideology.
		And this was dangerous because most of them were apologetic to the Soviet Union.
		And we considered that a great danger.
		So when I laid these out to the general, and by the way, in 1962, I testified for two days in front of a committee of Congress, a Senate and Judiciary Committee, and this testimony is still rated top secret.
		It was on this subject.
		And Trudeau refused to comment on these overnight like they wanted, because they didn't want anybody to check on them.
		So they made up an excuse that he gave when Adenhauer called him in Washington, and he briefed Adenauer on these cards.
		Well, I got in the act and I sent over to Germany, the CIC, the military, and I told them, get me information that Galen's outfit is penetrated.
		And they did.
		So Alan Dulles immediately took off for Turkey.
		And I still remember that's where he went.
		And two of my friends, former ambassador of Thailand, an ex-bishop, and ambassador to South America and Mexico, Robert Hill, came with me.
		We went to see Senator Bridges, at the time, chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
		And he was a tough old man.
		And he promised us that there won't be another officer promoted in the Army until Tefito is brought back and promoted.
		And he did.
		He got promoted to Lieutenant General.
		So this was the intrigue that went on.
		And of course, this increased my animosity with CIA because they didn't like an intelligence officer uncovering this.
		And remember, at the time, I was at the White House, which was considered above them.
		So I could call a few names back when I wanted to.
		And there was not much I could do about it.
		But this was the intrigue where General Trudeau was relieved and then brought back bigger than ever.
		In fact, he took command of a Corps, then came back and reorganized research and development, which was in logistics, a secondary mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, who was responsible, do you think, for bringing General Trudeau back?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Because we were close.
		Until the old gentleman died, we were close friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand that, but what I'm asking, Colonel, is who brought him.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		John Thurman.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Who brought him back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, who brought back General Trudeau?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, Secretary of the Army Brooker.
		And a couple of generals.
		The chief of staff was at the time, I forget his name, but he was a friend of the generals.
		And they brought him back, and he became chief of research and development.
unidentified		But it was because of Strom Thurmond and the support from the Hill.
unidentified		Yes, so Congress is integrally involved in this.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		That's right, they were.
		There were strong senators.
		Senator Eastland, Senator Dirksen, Senator McClellan, and Senator Thurman and Nolan, and people like that were involved on General Tudea's side.
		And I know because I talked to everyone personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they wanted him then as chief of R ⁇ D. And I take it despite all the political intrigue earlier, they knew him to be a patriot, they knew him to be a good man, and they trusted him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I presume that's why they brought him back.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		This was a general that took his helmet off with two stars.
		He was a division commander at Port Chop Hill and went up and fought with his men.
		He put on the sergeant's helmet.
		And this was a major general, a division commander.
		That's the type of man he was.
		And also very religious.
		He went to retreats at Loyola and one of the most brilliant men I ever knew in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so naturally, as he came back, so did you with him?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, I came back from Germany.
		And when he found out I was back, he sent for me.
		And I walked in his office and I saluted him and he said, you aboard Phil?
		I told him, yes, sir.
		He said, and the only order he ever gave me was, Phil, watch things for me.
		The rest don't understand.
		And what he meant, the inside workings of the government.
		So that was a story on the general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Because he challenged the estimates, which were a danger to us.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Because the Soviet Union at the time has said, we will bury you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		By the way, a defector told me that he was talking to Brezhnev in Germany and Russia.
		There's a defector from Poland named Golonewski.
		And I asked him if he ever heard of Trudeau.
		He said, oh, yes.
		He said, Brezhnev told me, and Brezhnev was premier then, he said that this is the most dangerous general in the U.S. Army.
		The defector actually told me that.
		Michael Golonesky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And from what point of view do you think he meant that, the most dangerous man?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		He meant that also as a fighting general and because of his knowledge also in R ⁇ D and intelligence.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		He knew what they were up to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So now you went to work for General Trudeau, and this is where things begin to get interesting for you.
		Yes.
		At this point, again, you had never laid hands on anything extraterrestrial, probably hadn't seen a UFO or anything else.
		In other words, you were not any sort of ufologist or even interested.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I saw a body at Fort Raleigh, Kansas, but I put that out of my mind until I could corroborate information.
		I can intelligence and prove it.
		And later I had there were some experiences that happened.
		My radars were picking up objects at White Sands when I commanded the Range Battalion.
		Traveled 3,000 or 4,000 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that we'd better back up then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you saw a body at Fort Riley, Texas, tell my audience.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Kansas.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was in Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kansas, I'm sorry, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell my audience that story.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, what it was, I was appointed one night post-duty officer.
		Actually, lately there have been some criticisms.
		They said that the security was lax at Fort Riley if I did that.
		But I was the security officer that night, or the post-duty officer.
		And people who know the Army know that when you're appointed post-duty officer, you're responsible for all the guards and security all that night and the post.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would anybody criticize that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was in the Air Force, Colonel, and I remember that most all bases had an on-duty officer for the night.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Critics didn't know this.
		They weren't in the Army.
		And really that night, I was a security.
		And when I went down, one of my sergeants, Master Sergeant I knew well, was Sergeant the Guard in the, because we had horses in, in the area, the veterinarian area.
		And these five, I think it was five of them, yes.
		There was five boxes there that looked like caskets.
		And I went out in the room, because I was a security officer, I had to go inspect it.
		They told me it was a sensitive cargo there.
		It came by truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it in transit or it was that?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was in transit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was in transit.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you how I did that.
		Now, I went in and I picked up the tarp, and I saw this body.
		Of course, I turned a little bit.
		At first, I thought it was a young baby or something.
		Then I got a little bit turned, like you do in combat.
		When something like that happens, your stomach gets upset.
		But you recover fast.
		And I told the sergeant, Sergeant, get out of here because since it arrested, I don't want you in trouble.
		Go out to your post, and I'll be out in a second.
		I'd put the carp back down, carp.
		Now, this only lasted 10 or 15 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you recall seeing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say you saw a body.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I saw an extraterrestrial, skinny arms, skinny legs, under five feet, had a fairly large head.
		Not large, but compared to the body, it was large.
		And the eyes, they were slanted eyes, no nose, no mouth, no ears.
		And it was floating in some liquid, and it was a gray color.
		And that's what I saw.
		And I immediately dismissed it.
		I figured, I don't know what it is until I can collaborate like an intelligence.
		Maybe even later.
		And later on, I was able to prove what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what that liquid was?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, I had no idea.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you say there were a total of five.
		Is that correct?
		Five caskets or five, if that's what you want to know?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, they were crates like, but they had a liquid in them.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The thing was floating in some sort of liquid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what date was this, as best you can recall?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the date?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		1947.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		That was in July.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		July.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Because I went to Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
		I was stationed out there with garrison duty.
		We had an intelligence aggressor force we were setting up for the military, and we were writing courses for intelligence.
		And I joined the Department of Non-Resident Instruction at Fort Raleigh, Kansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since you're an eyewitness to this, and you're now 82 years old, is that correct?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		82.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very, very important that we be very clear about what you saw there.
		This is a very key point, I believe.
		The Air Force, as you well know, had a news conference and said, well, they were dummies.
		Now, is there any chance that what you saw, and in fact, as you know, the Air Force at their news conference showed these dummies that they dropped in later years, 1953, actually.
		But even if they had dropped them in 1947, they might have.
		Could you have been looking at a dummy, a non-being?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		You know, I told people in late interviews that I will not criticize a sister service.
		And I won't, because I fought in Korea with them, and I have a lot of friends in the Air Force, but their superiors, I will criticize.
		There was no question in my mind what it was.
		I know the difference between a body like that that I saw there and a dummy, or even a monkey, like some said.
		And then they've even come forward and said maybe it was Japanese in that balloon.
		I don't know where they get these stories or why they make them up.
		It's beyond comprehension to me.
		They don't have to do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you saw a creature.
		There's no question about it.
		Yes.
		I take it, Colonel.
		You saw the Air Force's news conference, correct?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you saw the dummies that they showed that were dropped, correct?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Impossibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is not what was in that.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, no chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No chance.
		All right.
		Do you know where these bodies were next headed?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I do know.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I asked, when I came out, I asked the sergeants on the guard, the guard, that night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I asked, and they said, well, they said, we talked to the drivers.
		It came from an air base in New Mexico.
		There was five trucks.
		And they were heading for Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
		The boys, they had a driver and a co-driver, each truck.
		And the soldiers told the sergeants that.
		And they reported that back to me.
		It was on its way.
		And remember, in those days, about one of the only cross-country roads was Route 40.
		And they were coming through Route 40.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And they were heading for the Air Force Base in Ohio, right-Patterson.
		And the soldiers told them that.
		That's where they were going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that anybody else, the soldiers accompanying these caskets or whatever they were, also saw these beings?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, the sergeant there that I was with, That came in with me, and then I told him to get out because he was sensitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is that sergeant?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I can't answer that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where is that sergeant now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It's been 50 years, Art.
		I don't know.
		I wish I did know.
		But he was a good boy, you know.
		Well, he may be a master sergeant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A master sergeant at that time.
		Yes.
		So he may or may not still be with us.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		That art I can't answer.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So there you saw it.
		You saw this body, and then what?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Then I just sort of forgot about it.
		And then when I became the missile commander at the range in New Mexico, I started picking up these objects traveling 3,000 and 4,000 miles an hour.
		And I start checking that, and our headquarters didn't want to be informed, so I didn't say much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't want to be informed?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I send one forward.
		See, on the Nike system, I had tapes.
		They looked like a lie detector thing.
		And that gave the entire firing sequence.
		So when one of these events happened, I would call the battery and said, send me the tapes.
		And this showed if it was true or not.
		And they actually were accurate.
		And later I discussed this with the radar people.
		And then when I went to Germany, I was picking up, every once in a while, I'd pick up an object over there going 3,04,000 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And nobody wanted to hear about it?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, our headquarters, when I sent them the first report, they said, we're not interested, forget it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		So I promptly forgot it, and I didn't report it any longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Alexander, does that make sense to you, or for that matter, Colonel, does it make sense to you?
		Then, certainly, we had not made any statement saying UFOs are no threat to national security.
		We're not interested.
		It would seem to me anything flying at 3,000 or 4,000 miles an hour would have been of intense interest to the military then, or for that matter, now?
unidentified		Not necessarily.
		And when you look at things like NORAD and places like that, if you don't believe that there is a threat that can go that fast, and you then say, and you're looking for threat or no threat, and if it doesn't exist, even if it goes that fast, it's not threatening you, it's no threat.
		And we were looking for every reason to discard targets, not to try and include them.
		Remember, computers were not like they are today.
		I mean, you've got more power on your desktop today than NORAD had in those days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		My computers were the CAM type.
		We had a needle that revolved around the CAM.
		Then I got, those came from England.
		Then in my tour, before my tour was up, I had radars and they were oil data pots.
		And that was quite an advancement in those days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it was, of course, primitive throw out a bunch of RF and get a return type radar.
		There was no transponder usage or anything like that.
		So you were constantly looking at what really was in the air.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		My radars, even in Germany, I had two batteries always on the alert.
		And we were tracking these things.
		I had an acquisition radar, and then I had two target track radars.
		There's a pencil beam, which would lock on the aircraft and lock on the missile.
		One on the aircraft and one on the missile.
		And the computer would bring them together.
		Now, when you fire Nikes, the missiles we had, we lock on the target, and then the missile, when it's fired, goes straight up in the air and then dives on the target.
		And it does not fire slant range.
		This was the Nike system that we had, which was the best that we had at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Alexander, as you went back to Washington again, you confirmed the criminal service in these areas as best you could.
unidentified		That is correct.
		No, he absolutely was the places that he said he was and when he was there and did what he says he did.
		By the way, Art, one other thing I think ought to be made that I think is important about Phil Corso is this is not the first time that he has come forward and told some pretty remarkable tales.
		In fact, in 19, I believe it was 92 or 93, talked about a secret war that had been going on.
		And this was done, reported in 2020, U.S. News and World Report, and to the U.S. Congress.
		And it was a war that had been going on.
		And Phil can tell you more about it because it's an important piece of why we responded the way we did.
		And except for those who had some very special clearances, never knew that this was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What secret war are we talking about, Doctor?
unidentified		We were for many, many years, we were probing the Soviet air defense.
unidentified		And we would send planes in and try to get them to turn on their electronics so that we could map their air defense system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		It was a cat-and-mouse game, and every once in a while the cat won.
unidentified		And we were losing air crews, and we knew, and Phil can tell you a lot about this, we had people down on the ground, captured, alive, and we didn't even ask for them back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of airplanes were we flying over the Soviet Union?
unidentified		These were the electronic aircraft, you know, our ECM birds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electronic countermeasures?
unidentified		Well, they were designed to capture electronic signals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were trying to map When I asked, I meant what type of aircraft?
		Do you know offhand?
		The actual type?
		I know in later years we flew U-2s and, of course, Francis Gary Powers.
unidentified		That was flying all the way over.
		These were probes along the borders.
		All right, they would go in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, hold on.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		We'll be right back.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it is.
		Good morning or good evening as the case may be.
		My guests are Dr. John Alexander from Las Vegas, as well as Colonel Philip J. Corso, author of The Day After Roswell, which is a book shaking everybody up.
		More in a moment.
unidentified		More in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now back to Dr. John Alexander and Colonel Philip Corso in Las Vegas.
		We were talking about a secret war and one in which the United States was, I guess, flying airplanes, incursions into Soviet border areas to try to get them to turn on their radars and so forth so we could decide what they have and what they don't have.
		Is that about correct?
unidentified		Well, we were trying to map out our paths in so if we did go to a full-up war, we would know where it would be safe to fire planes and where we could not.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What year was that, John?
unidentified		Oh, this went on for decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But with regard to the colonel's involvement.
unidentified		Well, he was in the White House in the 50s when we had lost some of them.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Also, we had a 100-inch camera, which was highly classified at the time.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		From northeast part of Korea, it could photograph Elvistock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And this was highly classified at the time.
		And we were flying that over there.
		Now, Chris Wallace on primetime, he asked me one day when I was being interviewed on TV Cold War.
		And I told him, Chris, I don't want to be ludicrous or it's not a joke.
		I'm very dead serious on this.
		I don't know of any Cold War.
		Every war I've been involved in was a hot war.
		And I told him, and people, boys were dying, they were shooting at each other, 30 millimeter shells and everything else coming at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, how many aircraft and air crew are you aware of that we lost during those conflicts?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the number, Art, but this went on for quite a few years.
		And it was a constant battle.
		And we lost a lot of men.
		In fact, I had a situation where when I testified missing prisoners of war, a woman came up to me with her daughter.
		And they gave me the name Lieutenant Colonel.
		I said, oh, yes, I remember him.
		He's a technical advisor on one of these airplanes with a 100-inch camera.
		And I used to receive the reports or the photos.
		The little girl got over and kissed me on the cheek.
		She said, finally, we don't know what our father did when he got killed.
		Because the Pentagon told us he was joey riding.
		I told him he was not Joyriding.
		He was a technical observer.
		Now, these things happened, you know.
		And Chris Wallace, and we walked in front of the White House.
		He took some photographs.
		He had his cameraman there.
		And he stopped and he said, Colonel and I understand.
		After all, you people are responsible for security to the nation.
		Told him, Chris, I'm glad to hear that, that you understand what we were doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I understand that it had to be done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a little difficult for the American people to understand that when these air crews went down, even if they lived, they were basically abandoned.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they were.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I testified in front of the House Committee and the Senate Committee on this problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think happened to those men, Colonel?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I told President Eisenhower what happened.
		For example, at Pammon John, I was on a truce delegation, and I was on the ground when the boys were being exchanged.
		A Korean colonel we had, told him civilians, told him there was 500 sick and wounded 10 miles from Pammunjong from Pammin John.
		I wrote this up.
		Well, then our prisoners came through, and those boys told me that they saw those boys there.
		They were sick and wounded, pretty badly sick and pretty badly wounded.
		So I wrote up a presentation, and the chief delegate took it up at Penwen John.
		The Chinese general broke a pencil in half when he heard this.
		Now, none of those boys came back, and they were all dead.
		They all were died.
		And this was 10 miles, yet I told the Senate committee for this, you know, they didn't ask me one question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they didn't want to know.
unidentified		Well, I think the answer to your question is that, particularly for the technical people, that after they fulfilled their usefulness, they were terminated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Terminated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, no doubt, the ones that ended up in enemy hands were tortured for whatever information could be gleaned and then disposed of.
unidentified		Right.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, they also took their identities.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		That was an intelligence aspect of what I discussed with President Eisenhower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how people who have knowledge of this, Colonel, sleep at night.
		I mean, do you just rationalize it's war?
		Well, cold or hot, whatever you want to call it, it's war, and there are casualties.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And after all, they threatened to bury us, and they were a threat to us, and we had no choice just like the extraterrestrials.
		In the military, you think you always, just in case it's hostile, you're not going to be caught short.
		And we did the same thing in extraterrestrials.
		In a good case, we're going to be ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's talk a little bit about that.
		You saw a body in 1947.
		There's no question about what you saw.
		You know what you saw.
		It then went on to Wright Field in Patterson.
		And that really was the last contact of that sort you had until when?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were these planes that were flying at Red Canyon there, and some things happened there.
		But then what confirmed it, really in my mind, the collaboration, which is no question, we financed a lavatory at Walter Reed.
		Research and Development did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They had autopsy reports.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They had one and they did autopsy reports, which I had in my file.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had autopsy reports in your file?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		In fact, some of that's mentioned in the book.
		And I described the extraterrestrial.
		Actually, when I described him in the book, that one of the reasons when we tried to make flying saucers and they all didn't work was the extraterrestrial himself, or it, whatever it was, they had no sex organs.
		He was a clone and built specifically by some intelligence for space travel.
		He was actually a part of the flying saucer.
unidentified		He was the guidance system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So technically he was part of the craft.
unidentified		Yes, he was part of the craft.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And he was the guidance system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, if I may, how did they make that determination?
		In other words, all they had, or maybe I'm wrong, was dead bodies.
		Did they have any live.
		Not that you know of?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We know with electromagnetism.
		And remember, I had some von Braun's scientist on my team.
		I discussed this with Hermann Olbert at Petamunda.
		He was von Braun's boss.
		And he believed in space travel and dimensional travel even.
		And I discussed this with von Braun and my own German scientist.
		I had two on my team to investigate the line of atoms and metals.
		And these people were convinced of that, and they were intelligent people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but let's back up a little bit.
		You said you saw actual autopsy reports.
		How many details do you remember from that?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I remember quite a few.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you tell us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was in those reports?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, number one, they had a third eyelid.
		And this eyelid was a collector of light, because these creatures could see at night.
		And we used that as a basis, one of the bases for our night viewing devices, imaging intensifiers, we call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what we now know as night vision goggles?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		They came from that.
		That's the seed.
		And the German Ultra, they had some experiments that they were doing on infrared.
		And the Germans, I had their documents, and I was very fortunate that I had the scientist there who could explain the documents to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's where we need to back up a little bit.
		What knowledge did the Germans have, and how did they get it?
		Now, the crash that I know about was in New Mexico, but you keep referring to German scientists.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		There was a crash in Germany from Olbert's telling me what he told me.
		And there was also some crashes in Russia.
		And Wilbur Smith, the Canadian genius on electromagnetism, brought us a piece of metal that he got from Madame Foreign Saucer in Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I recall the last interview we had with you, when you were employed by General Trudeau, one day, or serving under him, I guess I ought to say, one day, the general brought to you a filing cabinet.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		This was right after he made me head of the Foreign Technology Division.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was almost your first job for him?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't my only job, unfortunately.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I had a lot of other duties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you were in charge of research and development, John, what kind of work was he doing in R ⁇ D?
unidentified		Well, what he was doing in foreign technology, and one of the things they did was we would recover technology from a number of places.
		We had called foreign material exploitation.
		And a lot of it, of course, was Soviet.
		And when you get a piece of advanced technology, we would bring it in and give it to the laboratories and say, reverse engineer it.
		How does it work?
		What are the operating parameters?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Figure out what this is.
unidentified		So that's a lot of what they were doing.
unidentified		He's, of course, carrying it to another level.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The helicopter came from France.
		I mean, the helicopters.
		The spent uranium that they tried to talk about and said the one outlaw after the Gulf War.
		Uranium, I got that from the Swiss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you referring to depleted uranium?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Depleted uranium.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I got that from the Swiss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the Swiss.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And then the South Americans had one of the best anti-aircraft units at the time.
		And then we got a 20-millimeter from the Germans.
		So we were taking foreign technology where it appeared in the world.
		And also, the foreign technology also uncovered other worlds.
		That book is Project Horizon, very important.
		We were going to put a military colony on the moon in the early 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were going to put a military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there were plans.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Of Project Horizon.
		There's 50 pages in the book, but the project itself was 310 pages.
		In fact, I had a hand in declassifying it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, Dr. Alexander, John, have you looked into this aspect of the Colonel story that we had a whole plan to put a base on the moon?
unidentified		Oh, that absolutely exists.
		He's given me a copy.
		And one of the things that's not very well known is that you referred to the Germans before.
		Remember, that was Operation Paperclip, where at the end of the war we had selected a number of scientists, Werner von Braun and Hoberst and others, and brought them in.
		And they were working for the Army.
		And so the Army had developed this plan.
		And then when NASA was formed, the plans went over to NASA.
		So basically the plans on, and they were very detailed on how to get from here To there, and not just travel, but actually to establish bases and fight in space, was being thought about in the 50s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this was sort of an ongoing, we've got to get there before they do kind of plan.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was we've made a plan and wrote it up like it was aimed at the Russians.
		But if a plan is read in General Trudeau's instructions, they're in the book.
		But the letters he gave of instruction, you see that we were aiming at any enemy from outer space also.
		And MacArthur knew about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously at that point, they had hard knowledge that there were others and that they were not necessarily friendly at all.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and what we said, just in case, was our motto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just in case.
		Just in case.
		All right, let me read you this facts I've got, Colonel, and let me ask you about it.
		We have yet to develop how you got to this technology, but here's somebody reading your book, Colonel, and he says, I'm only halfway through the Colonel's book, but I've reached a very disturbing chapter.
		The Colonel says that the military has been fighting a war with the aliens since 1947 and considers the aliens to be enemies of the United States.
		Would you please ask the Colonel if it's true and if indeed these aliens are our enemy?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I had a list of overt acts on their part.
		Maybe accidental, maybe not planned, but they were overt acts.
		They killed our men.
		They brought down aircraft.
		And they even experimented on civilians.
		So we had to consider in the military that those were hostile acts.
		Can you mine or not?
		They were hostile acts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, can you give me any details?
		You say hostile acts, overt acts.
		They killed our men, you said, and experimented on civilians.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, Von Braun even wrote of a missile that was thrown off track by them, by electromagnetism.
		And we were at Ramstein Air Force Base.
		They shot at them.
		And that's in the book also.
		And Maelstrom Air Force Base, they flew over that and they knocked out our guidance system on our Minuteman missiles.
		The guidance system on every one was knocked out.
		And then at Bokonor, the Cosmodrome in the Soviet Union, a UFO came over for 14 seconds, and all their steel towers fell apart.
		All the wells and the rivers came apart.
		The Cosmodrome was down for about three weeks.
		And the UFO only was over 14 seconds.
		And also, we had information that they followed all our Gemini and all the Russian Voskhod, I think, shot in the air.
		So we had all that evidence.
unidentified		One thing I might add, and this is, I'll be the cautionary note here, is when Phil here talks about the military, and that's a pretty inclusive term, because I don't think that most, if you went to the military, that you would get consensus on this.
unidentified		So this is clearly speaking for some people within the military as opposed to an institutional position.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think John's right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		well clearly the acts were or appeared to be over but uh...
		from what you've told me short of people who may have died uh...
		it seems hard to conclude that their action was uh...
		that of an enemy that that wanted to come at us or have a war with us uh...
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		because surely they have the technology to wage paid much larger scale Now, that's a question we never quite answered.
		We didn't think that they were going to fight a war with guns and missiles like we do.
		Remember, they were DNA experts.
		They made these clones of that superintelligence.
		And when I analyzed that clone, what a marvelous thing that was.
		We were remiss on that.
		We should have diagnosed that thing very minute.
		That was one of the greatest things they left us.
		And we were sort of remiss.
		We didn't do enough.
		That was a marvelous thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much actually did we do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, again, you said you saw an autopsy.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, we studied the digestive system.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		There wasn't any.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		None.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		There was no vocal cords.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No vocal cords.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No ears.
		They didn't, no sound.
		We figured that they had four lobes in the brain, and we figured that their communication was menotelephy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you call them biological entities?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We did.
		We made that name up.
		Extraterrestrial biological entities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You made that name up.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We made that up in the Army.
		And we called them, we came to the conclusion that they were definitely clones made specifically for space travel.
		Since man today cannot travel in space.
		Now, NASA might object to my book because I make that statement.
		The man cannot travel in space if these clones were made on that.
		Of course, somebody's going to come back and say, we spend billions and still man can travel in space.
		Well, it's a fact.
		There's nothing I can do about it.
		It's true.
		And on Mirror, where they come off of Mir, they've been up for three months after help them off.
		The bone marrow and the muscles are affected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that is true.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And the brain is affected, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, there are some very interesting developments with regard to Mir and other space flights in which the crews have begun to get out of control.
		And I think we are not hearing all about Mir right now.
		This crew is not in control.
		They've been basically told, stop what you're doing.
		Just rest.
		We're going to get you out of there and get a new crew up there.
		So obviously, this crew is barely fit to be sitting where they're sitting inside Mir right now.
		So what you're saying does make sense.
		Alright, both of you, hold on.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		It's interesting to contemplate, isn't it?
		That even we, When we finally achieve long spaceflight, may have to create the kind of creatures the colonel says, we dissected.
		And they may be the ones who may have to uh fly in space.
		Because over a long period of time, we can't.
unidentified		This is
		CBC..
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am, and I suggest you listen very closely.
		Colonel Philip J. Corso is my guest.
		He wrote The Day After Roswell, probably one of the hottest books in the country right now.
		Dr. John Alexander is with us, both of them in Las Vegas.
		you Back now to my two guests, Dr. John Alexander and retired Colonel Philip Corso.
		Gentlemen, you're back on the air again.
		John, where would you think it would be appropriate we take the story now?
unidentified		Wow.
		We have kind of gone all over.
		I think what Phil did from his perspective for research and development.
		Let me, maybe I'll add another note, if I might.
		I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of Phil's contemporaries, and the story is very interesting, and I've got to tell you, it's a paradox.
		I'm talking about people who went on to have ranks at three and four-star general levels who were colonels at the time.
		And I would ask them, you know, the big question is, where'd this stuff go?
		And I'd say, do you have it?
		Can you corroborate it?
		And they would say, no.
		And so I said, then we should not believe Phil Corso.
		And they said, oh, no, he did really strange stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they're saying, I don't want to admit any of this.
		I don't want any part of it.
		But then you ask about Colonel Corso, and they say, well, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, they give him very high marks, and these were contemporaries.
		They were guys who were colonels with him.
		And as I said, they stayed in and progressed.
		And at least one of them took General Trudeau's position two or three moves down, several years later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try developing, as we did in the last interview, Colonel, because it is very important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell the story about General Trudeau one day delivering to you a file cabinet.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, he gave me the file cabinet, and he said, Phil, there's some things in there.
		I want you to develop a program for utilization and exploitation of these.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utilization and exploitation?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Applied engineering.
		That means go out to industry and people are working on this.
		You find them, you develop a plan for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here you had a file cabinet full of all this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did he say it came from?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		He didn't tell me.
		He said it's in there, Phil.
		It'll tell you where it came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So normally you were working with Soviet stuff or German stuff or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I would think that at that moment you probably thought that's exactly what was in the cabinet.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I had three-drawer cabinet Moscow safe.
		And the top drawer was I used to, General Trudeau used to kick me and says, that's Corsa's junk drawer.
		And UFOs fly in and out of that drawer.
		And because when I'd lay these artifacts on the table, they looked like junk.
		So he laughed about that and said, of course it was a junk pile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was in your junk pile, Colonel?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a piece of metal, about a piece of postcard, and the atoms were aligned in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The atoms were aligned in it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Aligned.
		That made it give you terrific strength.
		Radiation wouldn't pass through.
		And he gave me instructions.
		He told me one day, he said, Phil, I'm going to appoint a special team, and you're in charge.
		And the general that John just talked about knows about that team.
		Because he was there at the time.
		He was a colonel with me.
		And that team, he told me this.
		He said, Phil, this is bigger than Los Alamos.
		Space vehicles, light as a feather, can travel, space-del radiation penetrated, and nothing can harm them.
		Because it was paper-thin, but the strength was terrific.
		He couldn't dent it, we couldn't scratch it or anything.
		Of course, and he told me also, if you find anybody is even coming close to this, fund it.
		And I had a German scientist work with me on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So at that point, you took that and you tried to turn it over to somebody in industry and funded them because you had that power?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we did.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I had the power to fund it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And basically said, back engineer this or figure out what it is, figure out how to make it?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, Livermore Lab up at MIT analyzed it for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they did?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the atoms were lined up in it.
		I wrote them a letter, and I also wrote Walter Reed a letter.
		Walter Reed started some interesting discussion there.
		And my co-author has a letter.
		And then I wrote to Livermore, and I asked them the question whether they could supply an easy report.
		They said, do you remember the contract to Hot Red?
		That we would send all copies back to you and keep nothing here.
		And they were right.
unidentified		A technical correction, by the way, that's Lincoln Lab.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's Lincoln.
		You're right, John.
		I'm glad you caught that.
		That was Lincoln Lab.
		Livermore's on California.
		So they did that, and they reminded me that we made them send all copies back to us to keep nothing in their file.
		And we fund it after all, so they did that.
		Then I had a, now this is an interesting story, Arc.
		I had a piece of string, it looked like string.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		String.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The atoms were aligned in it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was so tough you couldn't burn it and you couldn't even cut it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it metallic or was it light string?
		Like thread?
		Like thread.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Cloth.
		It looked like it.
		The nearest thing in this world that we found that was nearest that was a spider web.
		Terrific strength.
		You can stretch a spider web for miles.
		The spider spins it and aligns the atoms in it.
		And you can stretch it five, ten miles before it bends and won't break.
		And then it springs back into space.
		Now, we funded that with Wyoming University.
		We made flag jackets out of it.
		Only we couldn't make flag jackets because we couldn't get enough of it.
		We tried to get them to clone the spider, and I think to this day they haven't succeeded.
		But there's terrific strength in that, in the spider web.
		Marvelous thing.
		Atoms are aligned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Atoms are aligned.
		Dr. Alexander, now with two pieces of material from this file cabinet that ultimately, I guess, came from Roswell.
		Atoms are aligned.
		Can you explain that?
unidentified		Not very easily, actually.
unidentified		As I understand what he's talking about is that instead of having a random selection of the atoms, that they were able to establish the polarity in such a way that the strength was greatly increased.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		You're right, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they were actually not able to duplicate the metal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, we failed in that, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Failed.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We were able to do it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We invented a small atomic engine that's in the Saturn probes and the Mars probes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was our little engine that we built at Fort Belvar.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And we could never harden that, so we couldn't put it in anything that man could travel in it because we couldn't harden it and keep the radiation out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but then all other, some other materials from that filing cabinet, for example this fiber that you're talking about, actually turned out to be what we now know as fiber optics, is that right?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I had a fiber optics, I had a bunch of, it looked like wires, I really didn't know what it was, and light was emitted from them.
		There must have been a power source in it.
		And we sent that, I think, to Monmouth that went.
		And from that, that was a development of fiber optics.
		But in those days, we didn't even know what it was, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you just sent it over and said, figure it out?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we gave it to our labs.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And it was our labs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And once again, they weren't doing this gratis or for an investigation.
		You were commissioning them.
		You had budget money.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Research and development money that came along with these items you were giving them.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We had a budget then which was tremendous.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was about $2 billion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$2 billion.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Now, we also gave out RDTAD contracts, research, development, test, and evaluation contracts.
		The first item that would be built from a research contract, we funded the building to the first one.
		Then after that, other people, other agencies funded it.
		So we would fund these until it was actually developed.
		And we had our own laboratories, our atomic labs, and the night viewing labs were our labs at Fort Belvar.
		So what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, what aspect of this were you overseeing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, once you gave somebody a piece of this technology and a budget, what did you then do?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was supposed to keep track of it, of how I was coming along.
		For example, I went down to the Night Viewing Device Lab one day, and I had their budget in my pocket.
		And the general told me, go down, see how they're getting along.
		And I took one of the German scientists with me and two Army engineers.
		We looked it over, and the commander there told me he had misgivings when he heard I was coming.
		I told him, is my reputation that bad?
		And then I told him, but in this case, it's a little different.
		Look at my German friend.
		He's smiling.
		He usually doesn't smile.
		And not only that, but since you're doing such a good job, here's your budget.
		And I handed him the envelope I had in my pocket.
		And I thought, but there's a hitch to that.
		The war is heating up in Vietnam.
		We need this viewing device for the troops with three to six months.
		They did it.
		And John knows he had one of the weapons or one of the rangefinders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, Dr. John Alexander has been, would it be fair to say, Doctor, a developer of non-lethal technologies for years?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, can you, in essence, back up any aspect of this regarding night vision?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, can you see a linear development anywhere with regard to night vision, or was it a sudden jump that would tend to back up what Colonel Corso is suggesting?
unidentified		It's hard to say.
		And I've got to say, when Phil and I first talked about this and how they went about it, he described a classic black program in which it falls back in on itself, is almost untraceable.
		Because remember what he said, and this is in Phil's words, they found people who were already working the field so that it would not show up as here's something totally out of the blue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it could look as though it were some sort of natural progression.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		the problem with you know if phil is right it means that we have to rewrite science and if you're going to have a new Well, I'm talking about the history of science because it means that everything up to Nobel Prizes and people who have been awarded money and patents and all of that got some help.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Now, we encouraged industry to take the patents.
		And I have supported this in a pamphlet written in 1963 by General Britton.
		We encouraged them to take the patents as long as they developed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the alternative to that would be to tell everybody where it came from.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		there was no choice we couldn't do that because the climate I'm certain they would have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At some point, you must have sat down with General Trudeau, and obviously after you realized what you had on your hands in this cabinet, all of this technology, and you must have had a serious conversation with the general about where it came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or did you never do that?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we did almost every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Now, let me tell you another thing, Art, you've got to remember, too, how some of the developments came from the back door.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		In intelligence, you check also not actually what has happened, but you check omissions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I walked in the general one day, and I told him, General, I've got something here that's very serious.
		Now, I've got to let you know, and we've got to decide what to do.
		I told him, number one, there's no food aboard this flying saucer.
unidentified		No refrigeration facilities.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		There's no water.
		There's no toilet facilities.
		There's no recreation facilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, I've got to stop you and back up a little bit.
		You just said something quite remarkable.
		On this flying saucer, does that imply that you had a craft?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Not that we had in the Army, but I had the reports on the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had the reports.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did these reports come to you along with the filing cabinet full of all the corrections?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They were in the top drawer of the filing cabinet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had a full report on the craft they had recovered?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I say, as full as it could be in those days from what they saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here you had the autopsy reports on the beings, extraterrestrial biological entities, robots virtually.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The Sumerians called them Ejigis.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I-G-I-G-I-S.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you had a report on the craft itself.
		Now, you said there were no facilities, and what you've told me of the extraterrestrial biological entities, it makes sense.
		They wouldn't need all that, would they?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, they won't.
		And also, when a general asked me, what do you think is, how do they survive?
		Well, I have Tesla's reports.
		And Tesla, you know, he was the genius in New York and then went out to New Mexico.
		He actually set up his generator right up there at Colorado Springs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And Tesla, in one of his writings, he had that the body itself is an electrical entity, our bodies.
		The cells are electrical.
		And you can propagate our system by electromagnetism.
		And Tesla actually said this.
		And I told Jetto, maybe this is a key, gentle, that they propagate themselves by electromagnetism.
		Because we knew that their guidance system was an electromagnetic because of the way it affected some of our missiles and other items.
		So from those emissions, we started what we called irradiated foods.
		What I told him is we flew down the quartermaster, or that was in Richmond, Virginia, and they fed us a steak that had been on the shelf for two years, no refrigeration.
		And we made, now, irradiated food today, it kills salmonella and chicken, it kills terpena and pork.
		Yet we won't put on the market because of dukegooders, and it's harmless.
		And American science agents, New York, has stated that it's harmless, yet the duke glitters won't put it out because it says radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's another technology that came from them.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It came through the back door, let's say, because it wasn't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You said the reason you came forward is that General Trudeau said that you could speak after his death.
		But wouldn't all work at the Foreign Technology Division be covered under the security requirements, other security requirements that you had to sign?
		In other words, how were you released not just from his personal but from those other requirements?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The requirements, mostly in security, were on weapons and things we developed.
		And some of the later developments are still classified.
		and talk about those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are things still that...
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The normal R ⁇ D contracts we put out, most of them didn't have the stamps on.
		My Project Horizon was secret, and then it was declassified under the general's authority.
		And I did that, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the general told you, near his death, that you could come forward after he died?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		He said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think he wouldn't do it while he was still alive and back your story up?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, one day, I was discussing with the general some of these items.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I told him, this, General, we have this integrated circuit.
		What are we unleashing on the world?
		We don't know what this thing will do.
		What if someday, and I pointed to my head, it integrates with the brain?
		Are we going to create some monsters?
		And he said, Phil, yes, what you're saying is true.
		But let's hope that the people come after us will recognize this and do something about it.
		And then he stated this.
		He said, but maybe not in our lifetime.
		Well, it didn't happen in his lifetime.
		And even in 82, I happen to still be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, again, though, do you think the general didn't want any of this coming out when he was alive?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Because the climate of opinion and what was going on, even till he died three years ago and even today, anybody deals with this as a kook.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I told the Germans one day, I explained something to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was worried about ridicule.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And also, the skeptics and the department, the people at ARPA and other places didn't like us.
		And we knew who our opposition was, and CIA didn't like us.
		And there would be a lot of opposition, a lot of smearing, and a lot of good people might have been hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that's true.
		All right, gentlemen, stand by as the story develops.
		My guests are Colonel Philip J. Corso and Dr. John Alexander.
		And they will be back.
		And we have a number of questions for the Colonel with regard to his now best-selling book, The Day After Roswell.
		So much of our technology, from night vision to fiber optics to irradiated food, came directly, not from our heads, but from theirs.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		Call Art Bell toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly, as my guests are Dr. John Alexander from Las Vegas, who is an expert in non-lethal weapons technology, has been working on that for years.
		And Philip J. Corso, Colonel Philip J. Corso, retired, who has a story to tell you that, if you believe it, will change everything we know, everything we think, the history of our technical development and where we are today.
		And we'll get back to that in a moment.
		I know some of you from Los Angeles are just joining.
		Good morning.
		CNN is reporting that indeed Kunanan is dead, apparently having committed suicide in a houseboat after being discovered.
		So it looks as though that story may be a wrap.
		Kunanan repeating is dead, according to CNN.
		Miami Beach police sources tell ZNN the body discovered in a houseboat is indeed that of spree killer Andrew Kunan, wanted for the murders of five men, including Italian fashion designer Gianni Brisace.
		ZNN reports members of Kunanan's family are now en route to Miami Beach.
		And I've got some more news that I'll sort of get to you as I can this evening.
		We're in the middle of a very, very important interview, and we're about to get back to it.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you you All right, back now to my guests, both in Las Vegas, Dr. John Alexander and Colonel Philip J. Corso.
		And I've got a fax here that says, hi, Art.
		This is really not complicated.
		Colonel Philip Corso is simply telling the truth.
		The problem is there are going to be a lot of people that simply can't handle the truth, and they're going to be using a variety of psychological mechanisms, including suppression, denial, rationalization, to avoid dealing with this simple truth.
		And the truth is that, Colonel, you had all of this material given to you by General Trudeau, which you then apparently funded.
		In other words, you actually began to go to American industry and give them this material along with budgets to develop this technology.
		And what you're telling us is that the technology we enjoy today, much of it, fiber optics, night vision goggles, and on and on and on, all came from an alien crash or alien crashes.
		Do you know totally how many there were, Colonel?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, I really don't have the count.
		I had about a dozen important items.
		So I don't know really.
		At the moment, I'd have to go through my notes that the book was taken from and see how many we did have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know, Colonel, whether you were the only one given these alien artifacts or whether others were doing parallel work?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I heard rumors that the Air Force was doing parallel work.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		But we never cross-fertilized because we kept it ourselves to protect our, let's say, our organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You also believe, do you not, that the Germans were doing some parallel work?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They were doing it.
		Their scientists actually told me this.
		And people the caliber of Leon Braun and Obert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've mentioned the names of several people, Colonel, who were involved over the years.
		Frank Kaufman, one of the still-living first-hand witnesses.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I met him at Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had him as a guest on this program a couple of weeks ago and claimed to have been part of the cleanup team at Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you confirm that Frank Kaufman was involved in the cleanup?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I met him out there.
		I think he was a sergeant.
		And he was very happy that I finally came forward.
		We had dinner one night at the Roswell Inn there, in Roswell.
		So I was introduced to him.
		It's the first time I met the man.
		And it seems like he's my age, I think.
		And he was very logical and very emphatic in what he saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the things he did, Colonel, was dispute your claim that a creature was shot at the crash site.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not sure of that, whether it was shot or not.
		That I'm not certain of.
		I don't think Kaufman is right on that.
		I think I was sort of an error in there.
		It Shouldn't have been in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Since you've written your book, this is a very, very important book.
		If you believe it, it changes all of our history, or a great portion of our history, and what we think of ourselves.
		Has anybody, senior in government, come to you since the publication of this book and told you to shut your mouth?
unidentified		No.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		When Mitchell the astronaut confirmed it, he confirmed that I was a sort of a maverick.
		And I don't take things that are trying to stop me from talking lightly if anybody would try it.
		Nobody's ever tried it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, the things that you're able to talk about, you're able to talk about because they really weren't classified in the normal way.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		You can see that the chip, for example, or the integrated circuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It's now known worldwide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		There's no classification.
		The super to nasty fibers, they're known worldwide now.
		There's no classification anymore.
		Fiber optics has developed tremendously since our day.
		Auto-communication, there's no classification anymore.
		The imaging devices, we made the first heart pump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first heart pump?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We made that.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The Army did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that came from this technology as well?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Throw the hydrodymetics.
		We had a car at Harry Diamond Laboratory, a little cart that ran on water.
		Same as integrated circuits, the electricity we put water through and it ran.
		And I told Senator Glenn about this, and he wanted a photograph that I had.
		I gave it to him.
		And I told him, call Harry Diamond Lab.
		They still might have it up there, so north of Delphia, north of Washington, D.C. Do you retain a photograph of this?
		Yeah, I have one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have one?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		See, I gave it to Senator Glenn when I had, but I have another one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did Senator Glenn do with it?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I never, I haven't talked to him since I gave it to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dr. Alexander, I can only imagine now with the book having been out for a while, with the claims the Colonel is making, after all, we're talking about some very serious technologies here, that there would be people coming forward and saying, this Colonel is out of his mind.
		We developed so-and-so in our lab, and we didn't get any special materials in order to do that.
		And I've heard none of that.
		Have you, John?
unidentified		Oh, you hear some.
		Certainly.
		And you've got to remember, the way they did it, it makes it untraceable by design.
		So, I mean, if you remember what Phil said was that they, if you believe the story, that they were handing it to people already working in the field, getting material that in some cases they thought was Soviet, but that the technology was beginning to move already.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Our laboratory confirmed that.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They thought we got it from the Russians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at that time, and I'm just saying what I believe, our technological advances were far ahead of the Soviets, were they not?
unidentified		Yes, in some areas.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Some they weren't.
unidentified		That was not across the board.
unidentified		I mean, there were areas that the Soviets had done some work that exceeded our capabilities.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		In fact, we were really, one day, I went to the general, see, I was the first project officer on an anti-missile missile.
		And I recommended the colonel, a friend of mine.
		He came to me one day and he said, Phil, I got something very serious.
		The Soviets can take their ICBMs and change trajectory in the air.
		That was a very serious thing.
		They left us almost without any defenses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it is not a ballistic missile in the sense that you fire it and it has a specific trajectory and it goes up and comes right back down.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, it was an anti-ICBM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Intercontinental.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they acquired this ability before we did?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the capability of changing trajectory in space.
		In fact, we went to General Trudeau and he got alarmed too because that was a very serious thing.
		And we went to work on, and we developed a countermeasure within a short time.
		It had a crash program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that you have come forward, Colonel, with this incredible information, surely there are others, other than General Trudeau, who has now passed on, who could confirm what you're saying.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Lately, I had four officers come up to me in uniform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In uniform.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Officers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They confirmed.
		Two colonels confirmed to me that this was true.
		They knew about it.
		And a lieutenant colonel came, and a test bias on B-2 came up to me in uniform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In uniform.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't want to say where it was because I don't want anybody looking into it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And they verified this to me just ten days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're not prepared to come forward, though.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I did get a letter from, and I don't think he's, if I tell his name, he's McDonald's son, a scientist.
		And he confirmed to me in a letter he wrote to me before I left home where he sent me Radio's letter.
		He talked to people, he was on the adjacent committee, and he said that Hughes, North American, and Wright Pat, people who are confirmed, that finally they said he filled in some of the holes that we wanted about all our lives.
		This came to me in a letter a few days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Alexander, Dr. Alexander, with what resources you've had, what aspects of this have you been able to confirm?
unidentified		Well, what I can confirm revolves around Phil's background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		That, as we mentioned earlier, he had come forward twice.
		We actually only mentioned one of the incidents.
		One, you know, kind of the secret war that was going on.
		The other was a POW exploitation program that the KGB had run for 50 years.
		And that came out last year.
		And so he has twice told very unusual tales and turned Out to be true.
		When I have talked to folks who, as I said, knew him, they state they cannot confirm the details of this, but state we should not disregard him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, can you confirm that reverse engineering was going on at either Area 51 or Area S4, those areas out here in our Nevada desert that you are now very close to?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, from the information I had, yes, it was going on.
		But I don't have the details and never bothered to try to get them because I figured that was a sister service, they're military.
		In fact, General Trudeau went up in front of Congress, and he was testifying, and he recommended and stunned everybody that instead turned it over to NASA to turn everything in space over to the Air Force.
		And people were stunned when he said that.
		And he actually said this in front of a Senate committee.
		We didn't bother with them.
		They were doing their own work.
		We trusted them, and we let them alone.
		And we figured that it's best that we stay where we are to ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, to this day, how compartmentalized do you believe it is?
		For example, do you think the President and our current National Security Council are now in the loop?
		Or is all of this still off to the side and a government in effect within a government that harbors this information?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, the government, you know, when you talk about the government, Arthur, it's a huge organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I said in some of my interviews, leave the government alone.
		It'll cover itself up.
		You know, and that's true.
		That's what happened.
		That happened on my POW reports, the missing POWs I sent from Japan.
		Kissinger even in Skokrov said those reports didn't exist yet.
unidentified		They were there.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		We found them later.
		People didn't want to do anything with them.
		When you touch UFOs, people run and hide for some reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I guess it's still going on.
		Because I've been attacked, minor attacks, nothing of any consequence.
		And even Whitney Sabort, you know, the Manuro Communion, he told me, he said, Phil, he said some of the, Roswell, he said that, he said, Phil, some of the attacks are we treading on their territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's how you know you begin to get attacked.
		Do you believe, Colonel, that foreign technology, the foreign technology division, may still be involved in seeding this technology into industry?
		Because we didn't figure it all out back then.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I really can't say.
		I'm not clear anymore, and I haven't been in contact for a while.
		Although people tell me, like these people in uniform just told me a week ago, is still going on.
		So I hope it is, because it's important enough to keep on going.
		And I think some of these developments, I surprised my son one day because we built airplanes, these Rutan-type airplanes.
		And a B-2 came over at an air show, and I told him what to do, and he called me, he said, oh, no, it can't.
		Then he called me up, and he said, it came over and it flew like a little airplane.
		It held near impossible for a big airplane like that.
		That means some of the developments are going into that craft.
unidentified		It has to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, John.
unidentified		On FTD, and again, this was an Army, small Army organization, not the one at Wright-Patterson or the Air Force.
		And one of the things I was able to confirm is that when Phil came to the Pentagon, this unit was created, and right after he left, it disappears.
		If you follow what I did is go through the phone books for that period in the Pentagon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were able to confirm that division at that time?
unidentified		At that time, and then it disappears as he retires.
		And right after Trudeau left, because remember, he was working directly for Trudeau.
		And right after a few months after General Trudeau retired, that's when Phil Corso retired.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I retired six months after he did.
		Like General Beach, he gave me my last decoration, the Army Commendation Medal, for what I did with General Trudeau.
		I was General Trudeau.
		But I still stayed in touch with General Trudeau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And three years ago he died, releasing you from your vows to him.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		yes and then what made you decide colonel to write this book i mean you want So I figured I'd better leave him a legacy and put on paper because really I never had any intention of writing a book, you know.
		That wasn't my area at all.
		And I started to write.
		And I put it all down, including my Italian experiences and even other investigations that I did in the government.
		I started to put those on paper.
		I figured at least I'll leave them a legacy for the little boys.
		And so Merit evolved into this book, which I never expected to see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, if you had not written this book, you're 82, you're not going to be around forever.
		None of us will.
		Would we eventually, in your view, know about all of this?
		Would there be anybody to come forward, or would eventually all those who can tell the story you're now telling?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that most of them are gone, really, now.
		Remember, most of the people that were working with me were my age.
		They all had been honed in combat, and that's how we were able to keep a secret.
		There was a certain affinity between us.
		And I think that they're mostly all gone because a good percentage of them are older than I was.
		In fact, in the testimony when I testified in front of Congress on missing prisons, well, I told the families we were sitting there.
		I said that when I met the boys at Pamela and John coming across, they were younger than me, and I'm 82 and I'm still here, maybe some of them are still alive.
		Of course, it was a long shot, but at least it was some hope for the families.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At one time, Barry Goldwater asked General LeMay about seeing the secret room, some secret room at Wright-Pat Air Force Base.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		LeMay told Goldwater, actually cussed at him and said, never ask me about it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was Goldwater unknowingly referring to your room?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, he was referring to Wright-Patterson.
		right matters where those bodies weren't and where you presume I used to go up to his office and talk to him.
		In fact, I notified him when his private line had been tapped by CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he ever ask you about this?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, he never did.
		He didn't know I was involved.
		And I never told him.
		The only one I knew, really, on Capitol Hill, was Thurman knew.
		And Senator Eastland knew.
		But those were the only two.
		And McCormick knew.
		I forgot about McCormick.
		I was great friends with John McCormick, the speaker of the house.
		He knew also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He knew.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Because I went up to MIT with him and gave a lecture.
		And the speaker was a grand old man.
		And he was a good friend of mine.
		We got along real fine.
		So he knew.
		I told him about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One wonders, and it is reasonable to ask, Colonel, why you are the only one who has come forward this publicly with this information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's incredible.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Maybe I don't know any better.
		I don't know.
		I can't answer that, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colonel, hold on.
		We'll be back to you in a moment.
		Dr. John Alexander and Colonel Philip J. Corso are my guests.
		Sit back.
		Listen.
		You're hearing history.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		Oh, and it's all right and it's coming home We've got to get right back to where we started from Love is
		good, love can be strong We've got to get right back to where we started from Love is good, love can be strong Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Philip J. Corso, retired colonel, and Dr. John Alexander are my guests.
		Listen closely.
		What you're hearing, you may not have another opportunity to hear.
		At any rate, back to our guests in a moment.
		Back down to my guests.
		Colonel Corso, what you have said, what you're saying in your book and here on the air, is so incredible, so fantastic, that you would have to imagine that there would be elements within the government and out of it that are aware of your information, and there must be some kind of battle going on between the people who know about whether it should become public or not.
		I mean, this affects all of our recent history, Colonel.
		Is there a battle going on?
		Will there be others?
		Are you the last?
		What do you think?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, I've had calls from some of them.
		They'll come forward in time, but I can't expose their names without their permission.
		Now, also, another thing, Art, I really don't think that this is going to cause any panic or anything.
		Because I think from what I saw at Roswell and the families brought their children up to meet me, they're accepting this.
		They wanted to know.
		And they're accepting it, and they're going to go right along with it and live with it.
		I don't think there's going to be any great explosion or any panic.
		I think they're accepting it as a thing of the future, and I think it'll end up that way.
		And that's the way I hope it ends up.
		This part of history is written now.
		The young ones accept it.
		And mostly I want the young ones to accept it because we won't be here that long, but they will still be around.
		And I think that's what's going to happen to the book.
		It's going to be accepted.
unidentified		It's what they wanted to hear.
		Yes, let me interject kind of an administrative thing.
		I haven't had a chance to talk.
		I might mention, you know, I thought that Phil is high energy, and I think we can see that, but he's now in 17 hours today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		But it might structure the kinds of questions you want to answer in this segment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There's news breaking tonight.
		This may seem funny, but it's not.
		They have constructed the world's tiniest guitar.
		It's about the size of a single blood cell, 20 times thinner than a human hair.
		has six strings that can be plot but they are actually too small to be heard is this kind of Could this be technology derived from this same group of artifacts kernels?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It could be because some of the things in there make a little sense.
		You know, that you just said.
		And the first transistor I saw was almost out with microscopic little wires in it that came from the flying saucer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened to all of those materials, the ones that were not turned over to industry, what happened to those materials?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know.
		I left my files there with all my papers when I retired.
		Because after all, it belonged to the Army, and it wasn't mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were a good soldier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't take anything you're not supposed to take?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I was supposed to be the man who would stop people from taking things like that.
		I was one of those.
		And I couldn't betray the trust that the general had in me.
		And also, I never had any intention of writing any books or doing anything like this.
		It never entered my head in those days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how did you come then to write the book?
		I mean, did you struggle with it?
		Did you wish?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, not so much.
		When I decided to do it after the general died, and the children and my grandchildren asked me what I did during the war, I not only wrote this, but I wrote my experiences in Italy, like I said, and I wrote about other investigations that I worked on.
		And I wrote all this as a legacy for the children, for my grandchildren.
		And then this book here that's now, it started to develop from those writings.
		I figured I might as well discuss this, too.
		General Tudo's been involved.
		So I started to put it on paper.
		And when I got it all done, it was actually Simon Schuster already asked me if I'm interested in getting my notes that this book was taken from published.
		Because the notes is a different type of people, you know, who will be looking at that and not people that want to hear the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colonel, I asked you this on Dreamland, but I think it has to be asked again.
		On Dateline, I think it was Dateline, at the very end of the interview, you said something that people used to discredit your story.
		You said you would tell them sometime about a time machine or something about a time machine.
		Can you clear that up?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, I discussed that with Herman Obert, the German.
		I think it's in the book.
		And that in time, I think, will be clarified because there's other countries that are working on things of that type.
		But at the moment, I think I'll just leave it the way it is, the book, that those were discussions with Herman Olbert at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you had items from a crashed UFO in your office, did you at any time consider the possibility that there was potential danger, radiation, whatever else, on handling these materials?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, we considered that on the chip and the integrated circuit, like I told you, that we might be leasing something on the world which we didn't understand.
		You see, Art, I'm not, I tell a lot of people, don't think that we were so intelligent that we knew what we were doing all the time.
		We didn't know what these things would do and how they would end up.
		Even fiber optics, we never knew how that would work.
		We didn't even know if it was wires at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		But gradually it evolved and developed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If our military, since 1947, has had the only physical evidence, or at least some physical evidence, of the existence of alien ET spacecraft, which would be considered certainly a reasonable threat to national security, why has the military shown no interest in civilian UFO reports?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's another thing, Art, where you'd have to split the military up.
		Which part of the military doesn't want to see it and which part does want to see it.
		That's a good point.
		Because we were the opinion, we were military, we wanted it out, and we gave it out.
		Some of the Air Force people are the same way.
		Other factions in there don't want to put it out because they're afraid of being labeled kooks and so forth.
		But I think that gradually, some of the new developments I've seen, I think, refer back.
		Now, that wing, that B-2 flies, there must be something on anti-gravity in there that I know about.
		But I'm not sure of that because I haven't seen it myself, see?
		And I never bought it.
		If it's classified, I'm not clear any longer.
		I can't go and find out about it.
		But sometimes I hear from friends of mine, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were given this file cabinet, how long did it take for you to realize what you had on your hands?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'd say that I gave General Trudeau the entire plan within a couple of months that started development, how we should start the development.
		And then gradually, as I looked at the things and conferred with scientists and other people, I began to see which courses to take.
		And I'd recommend those to the general, and then a decision would be made.
		Of course, the general made all these final decisions.
		I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Alexander, I've asked many questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if there are any critical questions that you would like to ask the Colonel, you should.
unidentified		Well, of course, I've had quite a bit of time to do that before we checked him out.
		I guess a couple of things I would say.
		One of the questions that comes up is, is this guy crazy?
		And we, frankly, I don't know if he knows this, but had Somebody qualified to do that, interact with him, and came back and said, you know, we may not agree with him, but he's not crazy.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes I question that myself, John.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I look back at these things, I have to question that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it like for you now, Colonel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you getting a lot of criticism?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, no, very little criticism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very little.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		In fact, already some of my debunkers and skeptics have come up to shake hands with me.
		So there is very little criticism.
		In fact, I'll tell you, I had some misgivings on how I received out there.
		People meet me in restaurants at the airport because I've never lived this type of life.
		I've always been sort of in the shadows, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I had misgivings.
		In fact, I made the statement out there a few times, and Michael Letterman caught this when I told him.
		I told him, you know, when I see all this, I figure, what am I doing here?
		I should be holding my easy chair.
		Because really, I told Simon Schuster when they wanted me to go on tour.
		I told him, I have to tell you the truth, gentlemen, I have some misgivings about this.
		I've never been in this arena before.
		But now I'm thrown in it, and I guess I've got to make the best of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To your knowledge, since those early crashes and retrievals and the technology and the bodies and all the rest of it, in the years between then and now, do you have any knowledge of additional crashes?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I had knowledge of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		The Germans confirmed it.
		Wilbur Smith, the great Canadian genius, confirmed it to me in person, right in the Pentagon.
		He came to visit us.
		I had a good session with him.
		Then the general came back from his meeting, and he told Wilbert Smith, he said, you and the colonel have a lot to talk about.
		I'm going to send him up to your laboratory.
		I was supposed to go up to Mayborough, his laboratory in the Lake Ontario area.
		Of course, I put it off, put it off.
		Then when they did call to go up there, they told me Wilbert Smith in 1962, when I was going up, he had died of cancer.
		So that was a great loss.
		Then the general got a hold.
		When I told the general that, he said, sit right down at the table and you write down everything that you discuss with Mr. Smith, because he's gone now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Colonel, you're getting up an age, 82.
		There are, no doubt, contemporaries of yours out there, probably around the same age.
		A lot of them may be listening to you right now.
		What do you want them to do?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the right time, let them come out because this information should be told to the younger people.
		And I'd like to see them come out and do it like I did.
		Tell the young people this.
		They're the ones that are going to be around.
		We won't be around here.
		But let them know what you know.
		And I think, and I know some of these men, if they're still alive, I think they will do it.
		They were tough men.
		They were good men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your information is so very serious that I would imagine a congressional committee or a Senate hearing would like to sit you down and make this public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were summoned to Washington to tell this story, to get it out in a public forum, would you go?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I've appeared in front of six congressional committees.
		Public?
		I have nothing to hide if they're serious in what they want to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Public, Colonel?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Public?
		Yeah, they were public.
		No, one wasn't.
		The one that I that 1962 was still classified top secret.
		That's the one I discussed with Attorney General Robert Kennedy.
		No, that's still secret.
		But the others are unclassified.
		You see, congressional committees a lot of times are not serious about what they're doing.
		It's done for publicity.
		And I know I was on Capitol Hill.
		If it's publicity, I won't do it.
		If it's to inform the people, yes, I'll be glad to go in front of a congressional committee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Alexander, do you think there's any likelihood that in light of this information becoming so public, such a hearing might be held?
unidentified		I would not be terribly hopeful, frankly.
		And I've been checking some sources.
		I know a number of people on the Hill and staffers and people who work it.
		Face it, the political downside for a politician to get actively involved is much higher than the benefits to be gained as long as the media reports these things the way they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that might be true certainly of UFO reports or people asking questions about lights over Phoenix or all the rest of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when you've got somebody the stature of Colonel Corso with what he has said and where we confirm he has been saying the things he's saying, it seems to me it demands an investigation and that any senator or congressman could not be too heavily criticized for wanting to hear from Colonel Corso.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing, Art, that I can explain.
		My last testimony was in front of Congressman Dornan's committee on the missing prisoners of war.
		They had a Czech general there.
		And the Czech general had been, his life had been threatened three times because he said this experiment's come.
		And so Dornan asked me if I would appear and run interference for the general, appear before him and sit alongside of him because I would add credibility to the general who they were trying to smear because he was Czechoslovakia.
		And the man told a true story.
		And I confirmed what he said.
		It was true because I knew about those hospitals.
		I knew about those experiments.
		Now, it took a man like Dornan who had the nerve to get up there and hold a committee.
		And the families were there that day, too.
		They were waiting for me outside in the hallway when I came.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if there's one thing Dornan has, it's that kind of tenacity.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so it needs that kind of tenacity, and somebody that will take it in spite of criticism.
		Because it's very simple.
		A newspaper reporter will say, well, this congressman is getting in a kooky subject.
		All right, some people may be in his area where he gets votes will believe that.
		So why should they take the chance?
		I wish they would.
		But I doubt it.
		I know nothing.
unidentified		Remember, there's a huge political downside.
		While Phil says he has not had A lot of overt criticism.
		That's because the book, I think, is fairly new and people are not directly threatened.
		If you elevate this to congressional hearings, you're now a direct threat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was hoping for, John.
		Some sort of direct threat to a lie by omission.
		I mean, it's about time.
		If what the Colonel says is true, then he's our best connection to what really has occurred.
		And here's an interesting question for you, Colonel.
		If all of the technology that was gleaned from Roswell and any other crashes that have occurred, alien technology, had not been interwoven with American industry, where would we be today?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give you a little example.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I had a file in one of my files, it was in the second drawer, which was called Project Rainbow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		This was Von Neumann's.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		You remember John Von Neumann?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		It was his project on artificial life.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Now, I went through that file two or three times and always put it away when I could have started an operation on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Artificial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say artificial life, what do you mean?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		By computer.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They're starting to work on that now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about artificial intelligence.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Artificial intelligence, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet they're working on that.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Artificial intelligence is the wrong word I gave you.
		Now, Von Neumann, I didn't start that project.
		And a lot of people told me, well, it wasn't time because there were no supercomputers in.
		Now they can work on that, and they're working on it, artificial intelligence, because the supercomputer is available now, which wasn't available back then.
		So I think this is some of the developments that are coming up out of this, that new things can be taken, can be, new developments may be taken from Edcraft.
		Maybe they can work in now what I said, that the being itself was part of the propulsion system, part of the UFO himself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that also is interesting because, Dr. Alexander, I'm sure you can confirm we are beginning to work very seriously now on integration of pilots with our aircraft.
		They tell us, or I'm told, that there may come a time soon when a pilot will simply think commands for the aircraft.
		Is that ongoing result?
unidentified		Well, Firefox is certainly ongoing.
		I think, however, the next step is to take the pilot out of the aircraft and have it be completely robotic.
		Correct.
		Where they're calling unmanned aerial vehicles or unoccupied combat vehicles.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's really what the superintelligence did.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		They took what they were or their people out and put a robot or a humanoid in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds more like a humanoid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, half machine, half biological entity.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		One day I was walking down the hall with General Trudeau, and I told him, General, I think that son of mine is a little bit crazy.
		He says that engines talk to him.
		The general stopped.
		He said, don't say that, Phil, because some people have certain relationships with engine and solid matter which we don't understand yet.
		Now, this was actually General Trudeau's words to me when I approached him on that subject.
		So a racing driver, at times he says he feels like he's part of the racer, of the engine, of the car he's driving.
unidentified		Right.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		You see, these things we don't know too well yet.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And I think that in the book where I say that the UFO was an electromagnetic thing and the E-B, or the extraterrestrial, was part of that UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An integral part of it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		He was a propulsion system, an integral part of it.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		This is what we're talking about now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think those bodies are still at Wright-Patterson?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		No, because the lab said that they faded very fast.
		Their composition, I think we didn't study it enough, really.
		We should have.
		And that was partially I blame myself for, because I could have carried that on and I didn't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in other words the uh...
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		the disposition of the bodies was in your hands colonel well i could I could have followed it up and done something and made them study more with what they had before the things all deteriorated to the point where we couldn't work on them anymore or look at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Air Force recently, of course, at the 50th anniversary of Roswell or just prior to it at a big news conference, and they disclaimed the whole thing once again.
		How did you react when you saw that, Colonel?
		Well, sadness.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I can't conceive what they're thinking.
		I can't conceive why they're doing that.
		It's beyond me.
		And like I told Mosa Newsman, I wouldn't criticize the sister service.
		I followed them in Korea, a lot of friends in the Air Force, and I won't criticize them.
		And I told them, please, gentlemen, don't ask me to criticize.
		But their superiors, I can't even conceive why they did something like this.
		And I made the statement, if I'd have done something like that, I think General Trudeau would have thrown me out of the top window of the Pentagon.
		All right, gentlemen.
		I can't understand that, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are at the top of the hour.
		I have more time.
		If you can stay fine.
		If you feel like you've got to get to bed, fine.
		It's up to you.
unidentified		I think we ought to Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, Colonel Corso, I want to thank you for being here.
		As I told you when you were on Dreamland, you're a very patriotic person.
		And you've given us a lot to think about.
		Colonel, thank you.
		John Alexander, Doctor, thank you.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Art, you might want to hear this.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		When I was at the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stand by.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		One thing I want to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Fox.
		Stand by.
		All right.
unidentified		All right.
		Call our bell toll free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The American CBC Radio Network.
		My guests are Dr. John Alexander and Colonel Philip J. Corso, retired.
		Back to them in a moment.
unidentified		Back to them in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We thought we were done, but Colonel Corso said, got to tell you about Albuquerque.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Art, this concerns you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, me?
unidentified		Okay.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I went in the bookstore, and there were 300 people there.
		And they set up a microphone.
		I had to talk to them.
		And at least a dozen women came up to me and said they'd heard your show.
		And they said, and Art, he sounded happy, real happy and pleased.
		I told him, well, I'm going to let him know that.
		And then an elder woman came up to me.
		She was not in the line.
		And she had heard your show.
		And she said she was in her sickbed and got up out of her sickbed to come over and shake hands with me.
		And when she told me she got out of her sick bed, she was leaning over and I was sitting down.
		And I reached up and hugged her.
		And she kissed me in the cheek and started to cry.
		So I figured it was all worthwhile right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colonel, I understand.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		And she heard your show, too.
		And they praised you, Lord.
		So I want you to know that.
		I'm not going to Albuquerque at the bookstore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you go from here?
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I'm going home tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going home, Tommy.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Easy chair for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an incredible thing that you have done, sir, for us, for our country, for the history books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I personally want to thank you.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, sir.
		And I think you're, you know, we're all part of it, so are you Art.
		And I hope it works out, and I hope we keep making improvements and stay a great country.
		Some of the things we did there I haven't told you about that should be done, that they stopped us from doing.
		And sometime we'll talk about those two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colonel.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Dr. Alexander, thank you.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good night now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		Good night, gentlemen.
		There you have it.
		And I'm going to leave it up to you, ladies and gentlemen, to digest what you have just heard.
		Colonel Corso is an 82-year-old man.
		We have confirmed, Dr. Alexander has confirmed, and believe me, he has the resources to do that, that the Colonel was exactly where he said he was in the position he said he was in.
		And you've heard his story.
		What do you think?
		We're going to move into open lines now, and I think that after you've heard something like this, reaction is an obvious thing to seek, so we'll seek reaction from you, all of you.
		We'll go to open lines.
		CNN is confirming the Kunanan body.
		Kunanan apparently is dead, having committed suicide on discovery at a houseboat, Miami.
		So that story looks like it's just about a rap, and we're never going to hear, obviously, from him about why he did what he did.
		I have a report of a 120-mile per hour microburst of wind just a few hours ago at Minot, North Dakota.
		And I would like some confirmation of that.
		So there's lots to talk about, and I've got lots more here, but I think at this point it's very hard to turn to anything that would seem more urgent, more important, of greater gravity than what you just heard.
		And what you just heard, if you listened carefully, was an honorable, simple man who worked with, acquired and worked with alien artifacts, saw himself alien bodies, and is saying exactly, in my opinion, what he believes to be true and what he saw.
		You heard a real witness.
		Maybe one of the last available for that period of time.
		What do you think?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, R. I always want to say, first off, I've been listening to you since before you were on KFYI in Phoenix, you're on another radio station, so that goes back towards 93 or 92 area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it goes back a ways.
unidentified		Tonight's show, I've heard him on Greenland also.
		Tonight's show should be repeated, no question.
		I put in a request on Saturday night.
		I'm sure tomorrow's show will be incredible with the man in black situation, but this show definitely deserves a Saturday repeat, if not, you know, if he is to be heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, as I just said after the gentleman probably went and hit the pillow, when you heard all of this, how do you react?
unidentified		I mean, do you believe what you heard?
		Oh, I definitely do.
		I mean, after hearing the Dream Man show, I sent you an email telling you how I just feel emotional, and I don't know which emotions they are.
		I don't know if I'm, you know, how do you react to something like this?
		I don't know.
		I know that's what you're asking me now, but my point is that's why I want to, you know, tomorrow's show is going to be incredible because I know they all are, but this deserves a Saturday repeat because everybody has to hear this again and again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll see to it.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		You know, maybe it's not fair that I ask you to react because I'm not sure how to react myself.
		What we were just told is that a very great deal of what we utilize now, our current technology, computer technology, fiber optics, night vision, And certain fabrics, much of our current technology has been derived not through our own specific ingenuity, although I suppose you can give credit where credit is due.
		They had to figure out what they had in their hands, but this technology came from elsewhere.
		And you've got to kind of let that settle in on you a little bit before you can react.
		So maybe I'm asking for reaction too quickly.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Jack from Seattle.
unidentified		I'll turn my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Jack, thank you.
		That's important to do.
		Have it close by, folks, so you can just turn that sucker off.
		Otherwise, it's very confusing.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
unidentified		Well, I was enjoying your show.
unidentified		I didn't get a chance to hear it all, but I think you had an actual eyewitness to what took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had more than that.
		Yes, an eyewitness, of course.
		But beyond that, we have a man who was in position to go to various industries with this technology, give it to them, and give them budgets at the same time to develop it.
		I mean, you've either got to accept, I guess, what he said and sit back and imagine the implications of it all, or figure it's a lie.
		And I don't think it's a lie.
unidentified		Well, I don't think it was either.
unidentified		I mean, a man at 82 years old, a person wouldn't think that he would be motivated to lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		And I just, you know, I'm a little nervous, so you'll have to forgive me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right.
		No, listen, in a way I am too, because I don't know how to react to this.
		On the one hand, if you believe it, it changes everything that we thought we knew.
unidentified		But yes, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or else you've got to believe that it's a total fabrication, and I don't believe that.
unidentified		And the question becomes, why would we have been kept in the dark?
unidentified		See, I lived not too far from Roswell as a kid, as a young kid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		A little town in West Texas, which is I think it's 100 miles from Roswell.
		And during that period of time, when this took place, there was a number of reports after the Roswell incident where people were finding these balloons, these weather balloons, in their fields and seasons.
		And everybody, you know, because of the report and the paper, assumed that these were experimental balloons that they had let go somewhere, you know, the government.
		But in retrospect, I think what they had done is after they put up that story about it being a weather balloon, that they released a number of these things so that people would actually see them.
		Because I saw one of them myself as a seven-year-old.
		And, you know, it was just a big weather balloon that kind of deflated and came down into the field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate that.
		Thank you.
		And I guess you can look at it that way.
		In other words, you're suggesting that after the initial incident, they began launching balloons on a regular basis as a cover.
		That can be imagined.
		But again, after listening to Colonel Corso, and by the way, I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Alexander, who has done a very careful investigation of the Colonel's background.
		You've got to come to one of two conclusions.
		Either you have just heard information that completely changes and rewrites history and what we know of ourselves and our technology and our advancements and our current state of advancement and perhaps what we're even doing now with regard to miniaturization,
		nanotechnology, and all the rest of it, still being fed from elsewhere.
		You either believe that and believe the Colonel and his story, or I suppose you could believe he is crazy.
		Dr. Alexander suggests that has already been looked at and is certainly not the case, nor does he sound that way.
		He sounds like a simple, honest, old soldier who's a patriot and who is telling us the truth.
		And if he is, then everything we believe is all wrong.
		Wildcart line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there, Art.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, it's Fritz in Phoenix.
unidentified		How can anybody go to sleep after this session?
		It's unbelievable.
		I'm so hyper I can't go to sleep.
		Anyhow, one thing is for sure, Art.
		The Defense Intelligence Agency and the national security agencies have been listening tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe that.
unidentified		The cat is out of the bag.
		I mean, the ins and out of our intelligence system and the gravity of information, what's just coming through, I mean, it's the truth.
		There's no other way, like you said, history in the making.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to believe one thing or the other, Fritz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either he's telling the truth and I believe him to be.
unidentified		And art, you're part of history, because this is going down, and someday people will look back and listen to the programs and say how hard we had to fight to get the information out.
unidentified		You're doing a fantastic job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Fritz.
		By the way, I guess I ought to say, if you want a copy of this program, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278.
		It would come out to be a three-hour program.
		By the time they deleted some of the phone difficulties we had in the beginning, and oh, it was a close call, I'll tell you.
		The Colonel was in a hotel room and had a phone that was not serviceable, airable.
		And so we had the hotel staff racing up there at the very last moment to replace the phone, which they did.
		And I want to thank them.
		And I will let you know at some future point what hotel that was.
		I don't want to give it away tonight because he's there.
		But it was closed.
		So when you delete the phone difficulties and the commercial content, it's going to come out to be a three-hour program that probably should be archived by everybody.
		The number again, beginning now, I guess, is 1-800-917-4278.
		1-800-917-4278.
		On my international line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		It's Joe here.
		Jelly is from Western Australia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Western Australia, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm ringing up, but you got Major Dames on tonight, haven't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I do not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had Colonel Corso on tonight, along with Dr. John Alexander.
unidentified		Oh, right.
		Well, you've got to forgive me.
		I'm actually ringing from some monoden of exfect to a radio and to account with the station over here anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting, you should mention Ed Dames, though, because I've got a fact in front of me from Major Ed Dames.
		And Colonel Corso, an eyewitness to the alien bodies and to the alien technology, said on this program this evening that the bodies of these aliens deteriorated very rapidly.
		And Ed Dames, who has commented in the past on Roswell, just faxed me and said the bodies are deteriorated, in quotes, to the point where they disappeared.
		And Ed Dames has said in the past that he believes that Roswell was, in effect, covered up with time travel.
unidentified		I find it quite interesting, actually.
unidentified		It's a bit scary though, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting and scary.
		Yes, I think that's about right.
		Is there anything else we can do for you?
unidentified		Yeah, basically I was ringing up because I saw the photo on your website the alien and I've actually seen an alien like that but it was actually in a dream and I saw it before the actual photo ended up on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well if I were you I would seek out a clinical hypnotist and try and find out whether you actually dreamt that or whether perhaps you had an experience that can only be accounted for through regressive hypnosis, sir.
		Thank you.
		That's from Western Australia and I guess I ought to give that number out.
		I always forget to do it, don't I?
		You can reach us internationally, toll-free.
		The number is 800-893-0903.
		That's 800-893-0903.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		RKRN 920, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Didn't Philip Corso say John McClellan was one of the censors?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't he what?
unidentified		John McClellan of Arkansas was one of the censors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He mentioned him, yes.
unidentified		I thought he did, and he later said John McCormick.
unidentified		But John McClellan was on the Un-American Committee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Un-American Activities.
unidentified		All right, and I think one of the emotions might be anger.
		You know, we got some of the things.
		How many things were kept secret?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many still are kept secret?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		And John McClellan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I do know, though, is that I believe Colonel Corso.
unidentified		Yes, I do, too, because John McClellan bets him for me, because when Jimmy Carter ran, he actually apologized to the Arkansas people for having to vote for him for party loyalty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Jimmy Carter made some other apologies, too.
		Thank you.
		Jimmy Carter, I believe, was well aware of much of what the Colonel just said tonight, and more, no doubt more.
		And Jimmy Carter, as you know, when he ran for office, said that he would reveal to the American public, as a campaign promise, what he found out about extraterrestrial life, about UFOs.
		He saw one himself.
		And I am not ever going to forget a call I got from a listener, which I regarded as absolutely genuine not long ago, in which a caller said he had gone to a book signing of Jimmy Carter's.
		And Jimmy Carter, and I can relate this fairly accurately, I believe, Jimmy Carter was sitting there, as you do when you're at a book signing, hours on end, kind of not looking up or hardly making eye contact with whoever is in front of you because you're signing one after another after another.
		And that's what Jimmy Carter was doing, signing very quickly.
		But my caller took the time to make eye contact with Jimmy Carter, caused him to make eye contact, and asked him specifically about his campaign promise.
		And Jimmy Carter, according to the caller, stopped cold, and tears formed in his eyes.
		And he never really said anything about it.
		And that was the end of the encounter.
		But it says a lot, doesn't it?
		Because whatever you may or may not think, or I may or may not think, of the effectiveness of Jimmy Carter as a president, one thing he was an honest man, still is, an honest man.
		And what is it they could have told Jimmy Carter that would have prevented him from keeping his campaign promise?
		What single thing could have been so profound that to this very day Jimmy Carter Has such an internal struggle because he's such an honest man, and he is, no matter what else you think of him, that it would bring him to tears to not be able to tell the truth.
		That's worth a little thought.
		What could be so profound that you could tell a president that would cause him to break that promise?
		I don't know.
		I've been thinking about that one for a long time.
		Anyway, reaction to the interview with Colonel Philip Corso, his book, The Day After Roswell, probably should have been titled The Years After Roswell.
		Because if you believe it, and I don't see how you cannot, then all of history, recent modern technological history, has got to be rewritten.
		And the lies, oh my, the lies.
		This is CBZ.
unidentified		This is CBZ.
		Thank you.
		Artbell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		At 702-727-1295.
		First time callers can reach Artbell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Well, we'll be in open lines from now through the end of the program, and you heard from Colonel Corso tonight, and I'm seeking reaction, and I'm sure I'm going to get it.
		I've got a very interesting facts here, and we will explore it in a moment.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you All right, listen to this.
		Dear Art, you once said that no one has shown any evidence yet to prove the alien autopsy film to be a fake.
		Tonight, your guest said that the recovered bodies from the Roswell crash had no sex organs.
		The autopsy film clearly showed female genitalia.
		So, which is true?
		One has to be a hoax.
		Barry in Arizona.
		Well, Barry, I would observe the following.
		If you listen to the Colonel carefully, he suggested, number one, not only was there no sex organ, but there was no eyes, there was no mouth, there was very little relationship in what he described to what was shown in the alien autopsy.
		However, to take your point, in what I saw in the alien autopsy, there was no sex.
		I think that what you did see in the alien autopsy did not clearly show a female sex organ.
		It showed a lack of anything, or at least that's my recollection.
		It showed a lack of really anything.
		So again, that's my recollection, but beyond question, what the colonel described and what was in the alien autopsy are clearly entirely different things.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Donna from Anchorage.
		I just want to make one quick comment about tonight's show.
		Sure.
		I found it very interesting and not sure how to react to the whole situation of what we heard tonight on the radio, but I think it's a good idea to that if you could get a tape of the show to your friend who does the reverse speech stuff, that might be interesting to listen to also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine that could be arranged.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would bet you, I would be willing to bet you a substantial amount of money that you would find the kernel was congruent.
unidentified		Oh, I would probably say so, but I would think it would be very, very interesting to hear what has to be said in the reverse speech.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've thought of this in a million different ways.
		What possible reason would an 82-year-old man who hobnobbed with presidents was in the exact position he said he was in, doing exactly what he said he was doing?
		Why would such a man concoct a great fish story like this?
		I don't buy it.
unidentified		I don't think it's even feasible that he would even think about concocting the story.
unidentified		It's a pretty amazing thing to have heard and to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and so if you believe it, then our history is a lie.
unidentified		Very true.
unidentified		Very true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But your suggestion is a valuable one, and I will pursue it.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		We love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, take care.
		Why not?
		And I'll bet you.
		I'll bet you anything it comes out congruent.
		Anybody want to lay a little bet on that one?
		I guess we're not supposed to do that kind of thing, huh?
		But I bet all the time on things.
		I've got a couple of bets going right now that I really can't tell you about.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Have a question?
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phoenix, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your first name?
unidentified		I'm Matt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, is your radio off?
		Uh, no.
		Turn it off.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be very confusing for you otherwise.
unidentified		Um, okay, there we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		All right.
		Um, I just had a question.
		I'm here in Phoenix, as I said.
		Um, your guest, Richard Hoagland, said something was supposed to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Between the 20th and the 26th.
		Yeah.
		Richard Hoagland will be here Friday night, Saturday morning, the 26th.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Well, I'm just sitting here looking at the sky, and I don't see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, keep your eyes on the sky, and maybe when you're looking at the sky, it's something that will occur elsewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So don't be too confident you're looking in the right direction.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for the call.
		Richard is going to be here Friday night, Saturday morning, and tomorrow night.
		Tomorrow night, I think you're going to find to be fascinating.
		Tomorrow night, we're going to discuss a very, very unusual topic that I have never heard discussed on the radio for real.
		My guest is Jim Keith tomorrow night.
		He wrote a book called Casebook, Men in Black, a Casebook.
		Actual Cases of the Men in Black.
		In my mind, I think that I probably placed the Men in Black business pretty much with the Black Helicopter business.
		However, it is reasonable to conclude, if you believe what the Colonel Had to say over the last several hours, and I do that on occasions when evidence manifested itself that would have blown all this wide open,
		those who would keep it secret would send their agents to confiscate or discredit witnesses, and those would be what we know as the men in black.
		So if what Colonel Corso said is true, then the men in black may be true.
		Or perhaps there is a germ of truth that has grown into a myth that we now know as the men in black.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
		I had a comment about tonight's show.
		Okay.
		Yes, I didn't hear all of it, but I'd heard the previous interview on Dreamland with Colonel Corso.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, which was essentially it was a little different than tonight, but essentially the same information.
unidentified		Yes, and I haven't read the book.
		I I'd be very interested in doing so.
		But I've got to say, first, I'm a big fan of your show, but I'm very skeptical about this, and I think that people shouldn't get too excited too quickly.
		There are a number of things that concern me here.
		You know, firstly, if you think about the technology involved in fiber optics, integrated circuits and such, this is really, most of this was a logical experience.
		extension of existing technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're going to have to lay down some foundation for that one because I don't see it.
unidentified		Well, just as the transistor represented early experimentation with solid-state technology, and that was an extension of vacuum tubes and such, the integrated circuit circuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A transistor.
		Wait a minute.
		One at a time here, all right?
		A transistor is not a logical extension of a vacuum tube.
unidentified		In the sense that both involve amplification.
		It is.
		Obviously, one involves solid state, and the other is a completely different form of technology.
		But what I'm really alluding to is the advance of technology over time, the progression of technology over time.
		And I think that when Corso's book first came out, didn't somebody look at and actually interview some of the major companies that held patents or whose employees had actually patented some of the things that we had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you not hear Colonel Corso say that they were encouraged to file patents on this technology that was developed with budget money that he supplied?
unidentified		But I find that interesting too because I have worked on a number of major government research programs.
		I'm familiar with government contracts and a couple of them were so-called black programs, classified programs.
		And that would be a very unusual way to proceed.
		In fact, the government normally would only provide that kind of data in the course of a government contract, a contract for the development of some product or some technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what he said he did.
unidentified		Well, again, so you have to forgive me.
		I didn't hear all of the show earlier, and I may have missed that part of it.
		But normally, very recently, the government would retain patent rights for itself and not grant those kind of rights to the contractor.
		Now, this may have been a very unusual case, but I also don't know here what criteria the government used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, first of all, you're quite correct.
		You missed all of that foundation that was laid at the beginning of the program.
		So where are you located?
unidentified		Glendale, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glendale.
		All right.
		I'm not sure if you get the repeat Saturday night in Glendale on KABC.
		You might not.
		I don't think we do.
		So you might have missed it, and you might be out of luck because we laid all of that foundation at the beginning of the program.
		I appreciate your call, sir, but I disagree with you that it was a natural progression from vacuum tube technology to solid state.
		There's no natural progression there at all.
		Yes, both devices produce amplification.
		But the method, there is no natural progression you could cite with regard to the methods.
		And as far as fiber optics is concerned, that technology offers us more than we can even contemplate today as it's laid out.
		So, no, I buy what the Colonel had to say.
		What about you?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Thank you very much for taking my phone call, Art.
unidentified		My name is Pat from San Pedro, which is in the Southern California area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Art, earlier you asked your guest, the lieutenant, whether or not the Congress should have an open, somewhat of a public hearing on the claims that he's been making, which I think was very wise of you.
unidentified		And what I would like to do as one of your millions of listeners is ask you to possibly have maybe your, sorry, I forgot his name, the reversal person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David Oates.
unidentified		David Oates, to do some reversals on what he's been saying.
		And that way we can start from the beginning, which would be with the Art Bell show, have the reversals done, and then we can confirm the colonel's sayings.
		Can we not do that, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I told a caller from Anchorage, Alaska a few minutes ago that we will do that.
unidentified		That's beautiful.
		Excuse me for not hearing that.
		And if I may ask one more question.
		John Alexander was talking about how he's been developing or is involved in a non-lethal weapons technology.
		What kind of non-lethal weapons are we talking about?
		Squirt guns?
		I mean, what is it that he's involved in?
		What type of non-lethal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we talk about war, that would take a show to do with John Alexander, which, by the way, I have done, and we will do another.
		It would take too much time right now.
		But weapons, sir, when they're talking about non-lethal weapons and you're talking about war, it is more desirable to, for example, take your enemy to cripple your enemy, to hurt your enemy, as opposed to killing.
		Now, if you and I are having a war and I've got 100 guys and you've got 100 guys and we're shooting at each other, I'm better off wounding one of your guys because when I do, it's going to take one or two more of your guys to take him behind the lines, and in other words, you take out not just one, but two or three.
unidentified		Yeah, I hear what you're saying, Aaron, but I've heard so many other times also that there's no rules to war, and you just go in and just annihilate them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, since when, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since when?
unidentified		Well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since the Second World War, since we dropped the atomic bomb, maybe.
		But Vietnam, did we go in that war to win it?
		We could have won it.
		Did we, though?
		No.
unidentified		Unfortunately not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go back to Korea.
		We could have won that war.
		We had the bomb.
		We could have dropped it.
		Did we?
unidentified		You know the reason why we didn't win those wars, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because we didn't have the will.
unidentified		And why didn't we have the will?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You tell me.
unidentified		I think it's because we didn't know what we were fighting about, and there really wasn't any particular direction to go into.
		It was a governmental type of set-up war, unfortunately.
		You know, it was like a war.
		It seems to me, now, I wasn't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you gave me a definition of what war was, and I gave you two wars that were not that at all.
		So thank you very much for the call.
		If you're asking about why develop non-lethal technology, why develop non-lethal weapons, I gave you the answer.
		The very nature of modern warfare is not as you suggested.
		In a perfect world, it would be.
		In other words, once you're going to literally go to war with another country and you are going to commit the lives, the flesh, the blood of your countrymen, you don't fight a partial war.
		I know about that.
		I know about Vietnam.
		And I'll tell you something.
		If I could have put my hands around Lyndon Johnson's neck, I would have strangled him until there was no life left.
		That man committed hundreds of thousands of Americans to a war which he fought in a half-assed way from the White House.
		And he didn't know what he was doing.
		And he was killing people.
		I have a lot of very strong feelings about that.
		So if you want to talk about the nature of war, we can do that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I am.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have to leave the line if you don't turn it off.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		I'm lying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Goodbye.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
col philip corso ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Hi, I'm calling from New Brunswick, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'd just like to make a comment about tonight's information from the colonel there.
unidentified		I think the information, if the governments choose to give it out, would more or less unite everybody to a common cause, if you understand what I'm getting at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that common cause would be?
unidentified		Well, it would be like humanity itself would not be alone out there.
		We could unite ourselves for the one common goal of reaching out into the stars.
		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to the Colonel, these are not necessarily our friends.
unidentified		Well, that's true, but that would unite it against one common enemy then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm thinking if one reason we might not know about it is if our government is, as the Colonel suggests, fully aware and they have no control, they still haven't figured out all of the technology, and they can't control what flies in our skies, then they're not going to admit it's there because they can't do a damn thing about it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So I think then the government's going, I think, that they're going at a wrong angle.
		I think that if they told us, we'd all be much happier and more stable because we'd have a common foe to unite against.
		If you were talking about World War II, while all of us, all allies, went against a common foe when for a while they were all united, even with Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		I am 20 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you really don't remember a lot of the Reagan administration, do you?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were many times when Ronald Reagan made reference to exactly what you're suggesting.
		He said, if there are others, then we would unite as a world to fight them.
		Ronald Reagan said that again and again and again, at least four or five times during his presidency.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you think he'd say something like that?
unidentified		I really don't know.
		I guess to prepare us to prepare ourselves, I'm not exactly sure why he would say that, but maybe he knew something that he wanted us to think about.
		Oh, I think Mr. Reagan knew a lot more than he probably told us about a lot of things, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		If any president knew, sir, I think probably President Reagan would have known.
		I want to read you something very quickly.
		This is from Tim Cannon, who is the president of the Art Bell chat clubs that are growing up all over the place.
		Art.
		The Art Bell chat clubs are going strong.
		I, however, am not.
		I've broken my jaw and am now having complications from the injury.
		I've lost most of the feeling on the left side of my face and will be visiting a specialist in oral surgery.
		But things have been taken care of by Dan Kettler, Rose North, and James Fagan, who are filling in for me till such time as I can return.
		They are working with each other and with me to make sure things are handled.
		The new chat club voicemail number is...
		Area code 303-571-9301.
		I'll give that again.
		And he signs it, as always.
		Thanks for your time.
		Tim Cannon, Art Bell Chat Club President.
		So Tim is down, not down for the count, but down.
		I'm so sorry to hear it, Tim.
		The Art Bell Chat Clubs, however, continue, and there is a new number.
		So if you are wanting to form one or wanting to be in contact with headquarters, the number is Area Code 303-571-9301.
		One more time, because this is important.
		Area code 303-571-9301.
		By the way, my book, The Quickening, is now available in bookstores across America.
		Just about any bookstore you care to go in.
		I've got a list here.
		But you should be able to go into any bookstore and say, I'd like to get a copy of The Quickening by Art Bell and get it.

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