On July 21, 1997, Coast to Coast AM guest Claire Sylvia shared her 1984 heart-lung transplant experience, revealing uncanny donor trait adoption—beer cravings, dreams of her 18-year-old donor Tim L., and even his spirit’s lingering presence. She cited a 50% survival rate among 1,000 global cases but believed spiritual integration improved outcomes, contrasting U.S. medical skepticism with Mexico’s openness to life-after-death questions. Callers echoed organ-related cravings and ethical dilemmas over human and animal transplants, while Bell dismissed hoaxes like LaGrange’s UFO sighting—later confirmed by MUFON—amid debates on biblical symbols in crop circles and NASA’s alleged Mars rover cover-ups. The episode blurred science and spirituality, leaving listeners questioning whether medical miracles carry unseen psychological or metaphysical costs. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be.
And welcome to another edition of another week in Coast to Coast A.M. Live talk radio while the others sit up there and recycle endlessly again and again.
We are here live from the East and Point Islands in the West East Virginia and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Puerto Rico South America, North Line on the Old Internet.
This is close a.
And I'm working.
And for the first couple of hours, we're going to be in open lines.
At midnight tonight, we're going to go all the way back to Boston.
This was not an easy interview to get, but it's one that I've wanted to do for a long time.
I wonder how many of you out there know the name Claire Sylvia.
Claire Sylvia is a very, very interesting woman who, and I can't recall the show whether it was dateline or 2020 or, you know, you get them all confused after a while, but they did a big segment on her.
She was the recipient of the heart and lungs of a teenage boy.
She is in her 50s.
And as I understand the story, and there's nothing like getting it from the lips of the recipient, Clarisovia immediately acquired the cravings of this teenage boy.
Now, again, I could be wrong, and we'll find out for sure, but it is also my understanding that heart-lung transplants, or organ transplants in general, are done anonymously.
In other words, you don't know who gave them to you.
She dreamt the name of her donor.
She dreamt the name of her donor.
Now, you think about that a little bit, because I sure am.
And we'll find out if that is true.
She is going through some rejection problems right now.
And so I really had to do some talking to get her up at 3 o'clock back near Boston, but up she will be.
I think her story is important.
And I think that it is important that we understand what she has been through.
And it might help us to understand whether we would go through it under similar circumstances.
It might help us to understand the nature of the soul.
It might help us to understand a lot of things.
So I have Claire Sylvia lined up for the midnight hour.
Tomorrow night, at the beginning of the show, 10 o'clock, Leonard Nimoy, otherwise known to many or most of you as Mr. Spock from Star Trek, will be here.
Oh, you know me.
I'm a big Trekkie.
I'm a big Trekkie.
And he's doing some new things, and we'll talk about that.
Now, let me see, which night did I get this set for?
Thursday night, Friday morning.
Jim Keith will be here.
And he has written a book called Case Book, The Real Story of the Men in Black.
And that should be fascinating.
As you know, there's a movie out called The Men in Black.
I've not yet seen it.
But Jim is going to give you the serious side of The Men in Black.
And so I know a lot of you will look forward to that.
And there are a couple of other things that I cannot talk about yet that I'm working on this week.
So that's kind of what's going on.
I just wanted to give you a sneak peek ahead at what's coming this week.
It should be very, very interesting.
The hunt for Kunanan continues.
We're told now that he may be dressing up as a woman.
That is going to make finding him very difficult.
Very, very difficult.
And I don't envy the police the job of trying to determine.
One would presume he's probably pretty good at it, too.
The news on Mirror is that the repairs will await a new crew.
And they always say things like, well, the new crew will be fresher, you know, and they'll be more ready to proceed.
What it really means is there's something seriously askew with this crew.
And you've always got to read in between the headlines and listen very carefully to what they say and more importantly, what they don't say.
So I'm still very, very concerned and thinking very hard about this whole mere business.
It may interest you to know that on the 20th, that's right, on the 20th, the scientists at NASA lost contact at the propulsion lab, actually in Pasadena, lost contact with the Sojourner.
And for quite a while, we didn't have contact.
They had a carrier, but no real contact.
So I guess it's over there parked up against Scooby-Doo.
But it was eerie that on the 20th of all dates, and for a long period they lost, and I believe today they claim they got contact back.
Very, very strange, indeed.
For the first time in its 77-year history, the Miss America pageant is going to give its contestants an option to participate in the swimsuit competition or not.
In other words, they'll be able to say, no, I'd rather not do that.
No thongs or bikinis will be allowed.
Said the director, it's not supposed to be sexual or sexy, and it's not going to be.
It's not?
Sure could have fooled me.
What's wrong with having the swimsuit contest be sexy?
I mean, what's the whole point of the swimsuit thing in the first place?
I guess it's not politically correct to say that, huh?
I don't know.
In Washington politics, the one interesting thing that has gone on is the coup d'etat.
I really only thought they had coup d'etats in small banana republics, but Congressman Bill Paxson and company were apparently, or it is alleged they were, planning, in effect, a coup d'etat to get rid of Newt Gingrich.
Newt caught wind of it, gave Bill Paxson the evil eye, which Paxson described as, well, I looked in his eyes, and it was clear to me that he had lost confidence.
And Paxson resigned from his leadership position, and the coup is squished, mooshed over.
At any rate, that's what they're calling it, a coup.
And that's about the most interesting thing going on in politics in America right now.
It's not very interesting, actually.
And I've said this for some time, and I'll say it again right now, of politics, it seems to me, is less and less relevant to the daily lives or needs or thoughts of the American people, whether or not Newt Gingrich is ejected.
That's the big fight.
Frankly, that's not going to change my life one way or the other.
How about yours?
I saw a little teaser for a program I didn't see, which was on, I think, Dateline.
And it was about natural-born killers.
There apparently is a new study done by MRI, which has shown that 60% of killers have a specific brain abnormality.
Now, isn't that interesting?
Six out of ten have a specific brain abnormal condition which an MRI can detect.
Now, this could mean many things.
For example, suppose you went in for one reason or another and got an MRI, and they detected this same malady in you.
Does that mean that you should be watched?
Does that mean you would be watched?
Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child.
Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child prior to birth.
It really got me thinking, natural-born killers.
Something that can actually be diagnosed by MRI.
Extremely interesting, huh?
We'll get to open lines in a moment.
The Beijing Rei.
Oh, there is one more thing.
Actually, two more things.
If you'll go up to my website right now, you will see two of the most incredible crop circles I have ever seen in my whole life.
One clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
And I wish to make, they're both from England, by the way, one from Wooltshire, and I'm not sure of the origin of the other.
I want to make an observation about these crop circles.
If these were done by Doug and Dave or any other human being, something I do not believe, they could not be as perfect as they are.
I mean, these are so intricate, so perfect, so beautiful, that I refuse to believe, and I mean I refuse to believe that a human being has done these.
I suggest you go up there quickly and take a look.
They are, well, let me put it this way, and I really mean it.
They will take your breath away.
And I would like to get your comments on them.
We have cut a deal with people at the Crop Circle connector, the Crop Circle Connector, that's a site in Britain.
And we are now the exclusive, I repeat, the exclusive outlet for these photographs in the United States.
And for that, I want to thank them.
We had a bit of a struggle and came to a very satisfactory conclusion.
And as I mentioned, we are now the exclusive outlet for these photographs.
So you're going to be seeing a lot of them.
And this season's crop circles, folks, are absolutely astounding.
I mean, they are astounding.
As I tried to say, they will absolutely take your breath away.
So take a look at my site.
Go take a look at these crop circles.
You'll see it under the new news items.
And we could talk a little bit, if you wish, about crop circles.
After you see these, I would love to have you come up here and try to make an argument to me that these have been done by human beings.
unidentified
I don't think so.
Here's some exciting news for Coast to Coast fans.
If you're already a Streamlink member, you know what a super value our subscriber service is.
For around 15 cents a day, you get such great features as Podcast.
That's automatic downloads of Coast to Coast shows directly onto your computer desktop or MP3 player.
But now, we've greatly expanded our full show library so you have access to multi-year downloads.
Imagine having hundreds of your favorite Coast to Coast shows right at your fingertips to listen to, collect, and take on the go with you.
As a Streamlink member, you also get access to a whole library of Art Bell classic Somewhere-in-Time shows, available as streamed broadcasts.
Plus, our fun live chat sessions held twice a month.
There's never been a better time to join Streamlink.
Visit coast2coastam.com today to sign up on our secure servers.
Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Music All right, also a message here from Skip Frombach.
And it says a team of seven researchers, this is a Bigfoot-related, a team of seven researchers while investigating the site of my encounter of July 15th, 1989, Dreamland No.
So-and-so, Adam discovered hair samples which match the very description I gave in a report to Peter Byrne of the Bigfoot Research Project.
These samples have been forwarded to labs in Canada by Dr. Henner Ferenbach of the Oregon Regional Primate Research Center and can also be made available to additional research labs for DNA analysis.
Please pass this information to your listeners.
So maybe, just maybe, we've got some hair from Bigfoot.
She and everybody else that saw that UFO, it just came to mind to me that there are many accounts of mile-wide triangular Chevron-shaped UFOs, one of which was in Hudson Valley, New York, and appeared over several different parameters of time throughout the mid-80s.
And it was reported to be of the same width and virtual size of the Phoenix triangle as well as the Belgium triangle.
When I brought up on Michael Reagan's show, the triangle in Phoenix, and that three and a half months later, they talked about it on ABC, NBC, CBS, and you know, I couldn't believe it, Michael Reagan being who he is and an information source, that he had never heard of this UFO sighting, nor...
Yeah, really?
And nor did he hear about the, nor did he hear about Frances Barwood, which I couldn't believe.
I mean, you'd think he'd know who a city councilwoman was.
And also go up there and check out these new crop circles.
I mean, they are astounding.
They really are astounding.
One of them clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
You guys tell me.
They're on my website right now.
Keith just got them up as we acquired exclusive rights to the Crop Circle Connector, the very latest from the Crop Circle Connector, exclusively here in the U.S. on my website at www.artbell.com.
I mean, really, take a look at those and let me know what you think.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from July
Coast to Coast AM from July
21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
21st, 1997.
The days come and you wouldn't take my way.
I let no one take your way.
Get hurt if you can.
You're listening to Wark Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
Well, that would certainly eliminate him, more or less.
unidentified
Yeah, now here's something that I've been trying to get out.
It's kind of interesting.
I was looking through Buzz Auburn's book, I believe it was called Back to Earth, and he was talking about a party that Apollo 10 and 11 principals were having, and they had a really big laugh watching a film of Fred Hayes climbing up the lunar ladder and stumbling as it crumbled beneath his feet and falling onto the moon.
Now, what's interesting is that Fred Hayes, there's no record of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon, and NASA has no record, public record of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon.
Look, the way things go today, I promise you, and I'm afraid to say this because I'll get a million of them now, but they could put together a very convincing shot of an astronaut that we know, Aldrin, whoever, on the moon with another spacesuit nearby, and you'd be able to just make out through the faceplate that it was Art Bell.
I guarantee.
unidentified
Well, this was actually from 19 in the early 70s after the mission.
Apollo 10 didn't have time to have a post-mission party.
No, I think that's one number he's not publicly tackled.
unidentified
I'm just wondering if the number 666, how this plays in with the sacred geometry or the hyper-dimensional physics, if it has any place in some of the things that Richard Hogman talks about.
March 13th, when we had the lights over Phoenix, that was the night that Old Navy Stores had their advertising blitz where they ran a commercial that said, and the winner is Magic Comes Back.
And that was the date of that week on the 1-800 line that Old Navy Stores has.
That sounded just like an ad to me, didn't it, to you?
Here, watch.
apart my hair for the camera so all you with with your the cameras out there i was thought you know mama told me was nine nine nine but it's The other way around, it's right.
I was wondering if you had any follow-up information as to, I can't remember if it was a caller or a guest who was speaking about the 65,000 feet altitude limit that was imposed by the government.
And I'd like to suggest possibly a future topic for your show.
Like what?
Well, I haven't heard anything about this yet.
On your show or anywhere in the press, I was wondering if you're aware that last month a European satellite called SOHO discovered that the planet Venus has a cometary tail.
Well, the only reason I'm aware of that is because up here in Portland, there was a conference on the theories of Immanuel Velikovsky and planetary violence in human history.
And apparently, there's electrical interaction now going on between Venus and the planet Earth.
And there's this tail which stretches 45 million kilometers from the orbit of Venus all the way to Earth.
And within this tail, there are actually these rope-like structures which are called Birkland currents, which is proof, I believe, of electrical activity occurring between the two planets.
Because if this was just smoke blowing in the wind, then that much structure would not be able to be maintained over millions of miles.
Yes, but his two key tenets were that, number one, which got him in the most trouble, were that the planet Venus once was a comet that had a near collision with the planet Earth.
in fact i can tell you it is not okay well anyway i've got what i wanted to ask you is so we have david john votes on Yeah, when you have them on, here's some questions I'd like to ask, if you get a chance.
On the reverse speech, what kind of findings do you have if, say, someone is under hypnosis claiming to be abducted by aliens, someone who is schizophrenic who claims to be Napoleon or Einstein, and someone who has drugs or alcohol or alcohol?
Well, look, there's some things I wanted to talk to you about.
I know we're up against the clock and we don't have much time.
Crop circles.
Why can't they be made by our saucer craft, by our engineers engineering it for a certain purpose?
I don't know if you've noticed, but there's a crop circle that has the tree of life, which happens to be the religion of the Kabbalah, the way to immortality.
I had a guest on last night, Dr. Brian O'Leary, astronaut, who said that indeed these may be, I don't want to say figments of our imagination, but figments of our id.
In other words, we may actually be doing it with our own mind.
unidentified
I suggest something else.
I suggest we're being forced into a religion.
And let me tell you, there was the first crop circle this year.
You can go look at the crop circle connector, check it out.
Of course, now you have access to it and outlet for it.
It was six sixes, like a sawblade.
Six sixes.
I tell you, you've heard me talk about the evil entity.
And Dr. Malachi, I mean, Malachi Martin, I want to correct something.
He said, there is no profile for those that could be possessed.
I've had two very interesting attacks by demons in which they tried to grab me, and they did grab me.
The only thing I could move was my head.
And I invoked the name of Jesus Christ and quickly dispatched them.
I mean, here he claims that these devils grabbed him twice.
But he was quicker on the draw than they were.
Used the name of Jesus Christ and warded them off.
Well, how do we know?
I suggest you make him prove that.
Welcome to the Rockies.
You're on the air, huh?
unidentified
Hi, Eric.
It's been a while since I last talked to you.
I was the one that sent in a tape to you of Willie Nelson and another interview of Dr. David Viscott, or the late Dr. David Viscott, talking with the professor from Temple.
But it does kind of fit in with everything you've been doing lately.
The professor, as a matter of fact, had talked about alien abductions and implants and things kind of having to do with aliens entering through windows and taking people out of the house.
My guest in a moment is going to be a lady named Claire Sylvia.
Claire is back somewhere near Boston.
And there was a 2020 piece done on Claire, who received the heart and lungs of a young boy.
And I'm going to kind of let her tell it in her own way, and we're going to explore it.
I never did see the piece.
I heard it.
And as you know, we did a whole program on the subject.
Or maybe you don't know.
But what you're about to hear is absolutely remarkable.
So we'll get to that in a moment.
unidentified
The After Dark newsletter was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
Call right now to subscribe.
It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
There are stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more.
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Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
I was diagnosed, well, my first symptoms were in 1982.
I'm a dancer, and I found it difficult suddenly to be dancing as much as I had been, walking up small inclines, I guess, short of breath.
And this went on and progressed for about a year until I finally went to the doctors and was diagnosed with something called PPH primary pulmonary hypertension, which turns out that is a rare lung disease which eventually causes the heart, the right side of the heart, to go into failure.
It wasn't until almost a year later when I happened to see an article in the Parade magazine, on the cover of the Parade magazine of the Globe one Sunday, a picture of a woman, 47 years old, who had had the first heart and lungs transplant in the world.
She was from Phoenix.
Her name was Mary Galke, and I thought, my God, she was sitting in a wheelchair and she had written a book called I'll Take Tomorrow.
And I thought, that's interesting.
I wonder what was wrong with her.
I opened and started to open the page that she was written about and started reading and just about fell off my chair because it said that she had a rare fatal progressive disease called primary pulmonary hypertension.
And that's how I learned that I had a serious illness and, you know, there's something wrong with me.
No, no, that when I went back with this information, confronted the doctor, I was told that he didn't want to be an alarmist, that the progression was different with each person.
And yes, well, my age in the whole would, if it came to that, would be the heart and lungs transplant.
I had already had it for a couple of years, and actually, the prognosis was not good that from the onset of it, you'd only have two to three years of life.
Well, I had a three-year respite because my brother-in-law, who had found, did some research in New York and found a drug for me called procardia, which is commonly used for hypertension, I finally persuaded the doctors to let me use that and found that that almost made my Life normal for about three years.
Yeah, the use of that drug, which then those three years gave me time to get things in order with my teenage daughter, figuring out what we would do in case I didn't make it through her high school years, where she would want to live.
I was very honest with her.
Brought in her father, my ex-husband, and a psycho-spiritual healer.
We talked about things.
I taught her about bank accounts and all kinds of things that she needed to know about.
I felt that if this was going to be the end part of my life rather than the middle part, I wanted to do it with a sense of equanimity and do it as best I could.
And I became very spiritual.
I did a lot of visualizing, meditation, prayer, readings.
That's when I found Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's books, Stephen Levine, John Paulski.
And I knew that that drug at some point would lose its efficacy.
And sure enough, it did.
In 1988, I started slipping downhill.
And I found out about a transplant program at Johns Hopkins in Maryland.
And in February of 1988, I flew there.
A friend came with me, and I was evaluated for a transplant, put on a list, and given a beeper, so was my daughter, so that if and when it came through, we would be flown immediately by helicopter to Johns Hopkins for the transplant.
Well, I had good health insurance that covered 80% of it, but the other part was covered by the Mass Transplant Fund, which is taxpayer money, paid by taxpayer money, and it's an incredible fund.
It helps transplant recipients and people getting ready for transplants, as it did for me.
And it's one of the very few in the country that has a transplant fund.
It's my understanding, and I guess it varies depending on the organs, but only a very relatively small percentage of people make it and get the organs.
No, no, no, actually, that's another incredible thing that happened.
That didn't really happen that way.
I never got called for the transplant in Johns Hopkins.
I had heard that a young surgeon was coming from Stanford, California, to open up a center to do lung transplants in New England at Yale.
They were never done in New England before.
You always had to go out to Pittsburgh or Stanford or Johns Hopkins.
I found out about him and I got down for an evaluation Memorial Day weekend of 1988.
I was told, yes, I was sick enough.
I was one of four candidates at the time.
But they hadn't gotten official permission to do the transplants yet.
I was told to go home.
It might be a long wait, as I knew it could be.
It could be a couple years.
When they got official permission, they'd list me officially, and I'd be eventually put on a BPR system.
Well, I went home that day.
The next day, I was in my home telling my friend what had happened, and the phone rang, and it was the transplant coordinator I had seen the day before.
And she said, Claire, we got official permission to do the transplant 17 hours ago.
We listed you last night, and we have a donor for you today.
I could barely walk from my bedroom to the bathroom.
I was housebound for a year.
I didn't have much oxygen in me.
I was blue.
And yet, I just lived visualizing the day I would be healthy in the hole again and dancing, never knowing it or believing that that would really happen, but visualizing it.
And I just kept going.
I'm a good actress, and sometimes I faked breathing.
Those were the only memories in my dreams were the significant...
And then that was of the hearing of the sound of it.
And when I first awakened from the transplant, all I was conscious of were voices, and they were all telling me different things, mostly calling my name.
And the last thing I heard before I went under that I was told by the doctor was that the lungs especially are very fragile, and I had to know, he had to tell me that I may not get them, even though they opened me up.
They wouldn't take out my heart and lungs until the heart and lungs were there.
She has authored a book, co-authored, I guess, called A Change of Heart and Lungs.
unidentified
and will proceed with the interview in a moment Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
And the last words that were spoken to me were the very first words that I remembered.
And those words from the doctor saying, you may not get the organs.
Anything can happen.
And when he had said that to me before I went under, I said, we'll go with it, Doc.
It's in God's hands now.
Do what you have to.
And nobody was telling me, since I was the first one to have it done, have it done in New England, nobody was thinking to tell me, did I get them or not?
They were just calling my name and trying to wake me up.
And I had a tube in my throat and my hands tied down so I couldn't speak.
And I motioned with my fingers to write, so they brought me paper and pencil.
And I wrote down, did I get them?
And then they realized and they said yes, and everything is fine.
And then I slipped out of consciousness again for another day, I think.
The trauma to your body from literally being sawed in half, I would think the body would go into some sort of shutdown, protective type shutdown for a while, and you would just have to sleep.
My nails and my skin were pink again, and not that blue look that I had with a lack of oxygen.
And yeah, I was doing quite well, but psychologically, I could not assimilate what happened to me.
It was so traumatic, this ripping apart and then putting back together with someone else's organs.
I mean, it's been a very long process, a lot of integrating needing to go on, a lot of help that I sought and found psychologically, a lot of dealing with my inner world, with the dreams that I've had, the nightmares.
It's been years.
And at first, even though physically I could do everything, my body was in the old mode.
For instance, when I dropped the soap the first time in the shower, before, I couldn't even bend down to pick it up because I would go into such a strong angina attack, it would nearly kill me.
And now the first time I dropped the soap after the transplant, the thought was, oh my God, I can't bend down to get that because such and so will happen.
And I had to retrain my whole mind, my thinking that, well, no, you've got to try it.
Maybe that won't happen now.
And very slowly I would try it and find that I was okay.
It didn't happen.
And it was like that with every step of the way.
It was like a baby, you know, learning to walk again.
I knew what was flipped to me after the surgery was that I had received the organs of a young man who had been killed, an 18-year-old had been killed in a motorcycle crash.
Well, I did that, especially with the Nightmares and the Dreams that began.
I did a couple of things.
I found a Jungian dream analyst whom I had heard about whom I began to work with Robbie Boznak.
We began to working on the Nightmares and the Dreams, my inner life.
And I also began to speak to other transplant recipients to see if anything like this was happening to them.
And Robbie Boznak and I set up a little group which we studied intensively for a year.
It was the beginning of our research program.
And in the back of our book, we have a place to write and call into for ongoing research for other people who have any of this kind of phenomena going on.
We found that, yes, other people were feeling who had the heart and heart and lung transplants, that they too were living with a presence of another.
And that they were having different kinds of personality traits come through after their transplant, different fruit cravings that they couldn't liken to what they had liked before.
I describe a dream in my book about going to another World, and it was my first cross-gender dream where I become a man in the dream, and I'm about to marry a young blonde woman.
And I'm haunted by this blonde woman, not only in my dreams, but in my waking life.
And it wasn't until a year ago, when I did research for the book, that I found out that Tim, my donor, was in love with a blonde woman that fit that description.
But the strange part, it gets even stranger, was the way I found my donor family was through a dream six months after the transplant when I'm in a field with a young man and I know him well.
He's my good friend and his name is Tim L. And I'm about to leave him.
I go back to kiss him.
We kiss and I inhale him into me and know that we'll be together forever.
When I awakened from the dream, I felt for sure that this must be my donor.
It felt like the deepest breath I had ever taken and it meant that I must have really integrated the heart lungs into me.
The name was Tim L. I called the transplant coordinator and told her the dream, asked if his name could have been Tim L. There was a moment of silence and then she said, no, no, no, don't try to find out.
You can't know this.
So I let it go and it was about another six months.
I was led again in another way to finally find the obituary of my donor and his name was Tim L. Wow.
And then it was several months after that that I contacted the family and they wanted to meet me as much as I wanted to meet them.
And we did and I've been in relationship with them ever since.
Yeah, and that's when they corroborated all these things that were happening.
I remember sitting in their living room that day and we were corroborating the different things and talking about the food preferences and so forth.
And they said, well, you know, Timmy's favorite food was chicken nuggets.
And when he died, they had to pull him out of his motorcycle jacket.
He had just bought them.
When they said that, I said, oh, my God.
And they said, what's wrong?
I said, well, I never told anyone this, and I just thought of it now.
But the first thing I did when they gave me permission to drive myself was I found myself going to a Kentucky fried chicken place to get chicken nuggets.
Since all of that, at the beginning, which occurred, these cravings and all the rest of it occurred very close in after the operation, has it begun to fade, or are these things all still with you?
I felt strongly that there needed to be resolution for the first few years, especially when I met with the family.
And a series of things happened that I describe in my book.
There was one very significant thing that I think was the final resolution in which Tim's spirit left me, and that was a few years ago.
It was after I had a dream, which I called 22 bikes.
In the dream, I'm revving up 22 motorcycles to have them driven around a town to commemorate something.
When I awakened from the dream, I couldn't fathom what that meant.
I thought about it for a while, and then I thought, well, had he lived, he would have been 22.
It was right around the anniversary, which he would have been his 22nd birthday.
And his passion in life was for riding a motorcycle.
And I thought, well, that must mean I've got to ritualize this dream.
Called a friend of mine who has a motorcycle.
He's a dancer friend of mine, and he agreed to meet me one night in Boston.
And he drove me, he did, he drove me around on the back of his bike from one dance to another.
And as we went, I was really exhilarated riding the bike, and I knew it was for my heart.
I felt the love of that.
I was also frightened for the rest of me.
But as we got from one dance to the other and the evening progressed, I became more and more sad, and I felt that something was changing, something was happening.
It was only in retrospect of that moment that I realized that it was at that time that I was letting go of Tim's spirit and that he had taken me as far as he could on this journey.
Well, it is very hard to describe, but I felt the essence of it being within me.
I knew him intimately, like I have known nobody else.
I knew his soul.
I knew the best part of him.
And I lived with that for a long time until, I think, that moment, until I let it go.
So that parts of the old clear, the way I was like before, combined with this new spirit of what came in of Tim, I came into like a third entity and then came into my own again, this third new being when I felt his spirit leave.
And all the time that he and parts of him were with me, the spiritual part, I was not lonely in the same way that I had been before.
There was always him, this other presence, with me.
Um you know it might give you urging people to sign donor cards.
It might give somebody pause and this is something we ought to talk on, I suppose, pause to think that if they did sign a donor card and their heart and lungs or other parts of their body went to give somebody else life, that their spirit might be within that person for a period of time and not free to go on.
Well, I have a chapter in my book where some scientists are addressing these issues.
There's talk about cellular memory.
There's talk about energy fields.
It's really very exciting that this is open now for discussion.
And there's a woman called Julie Motts who's doing very exciting work.
She's working right along in the OR room with the surgeons in New York, the Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, who are doing these transplants.
And when the organs come in from the donors, before they are transferred into the recipients' bodies, she does healing, cleansing work with the organs, freeing the trauma from, the spirit from the organs so that they go in a clean way.
And I believe this is what my processing through the years, that I actually did without knowing that I was doing it, that this was happening to me.
Do you think that during the time that you felt the presence of this young man, Tim, that you were feeling an ongoing spirit or a sort of a cellular memory of what Tim was, of what his life was?
Were you feeling an ongoing presence that had some sort of consciousness?
I'm really not even sure how to approach this to ask it right.
Or were you feeling a sort of a replay or a cellular recollection of what Tim was?
I think I really don't know, except I can say that it was a combination of all of those things.
I believe that there is memory in all of our organs.
And my questions about whose cells are they anyway, when you take such a massive amount of tissue as heart and lungs and you put it from one person to another, something's got to come over with it.
You've got the DNA, you've got the cellular structure in it.
It's a hologram.
It's the makeup of the whole person.
And that's got to come over.
It's like putting one fluffy disk that you've programmed from one machine into another.
It comes with what it was programmed into from the first machine that it was in.
And it was just a transference.
It just seems like that's what was happening.
And then on a spiritual level, I was feeling the other intangible kind of thing, just feeling that presence and knowing somebody else's being was combining with mine within me.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, good morning.
Claire, I was curious, since you're involved in the donation process, if you feel there should be a possible priority list for the people who go into the system with prior notarized donor cards, as opposed to people who go into this are against organ donations altogether, then all of a sudden they're in need of an organ replace on the list of everybody else.
In other words, Claire, he's saying the people who have signed organ cards themselves, should they, in your view, get some sort of priority for organs should they need them versus somebody who has either never considered it or rejected it?
I feel that someone who has, I was just on the LISA program, which will be airing soon.
There was a young woman who donated an organ, she's a living donor, she donated a kidney to her brother who was in need, who would have died if he hadn't gotten it.
And then eight months later, she needed a kidney of her own.
And they wouldn't list her.
Now, she has changed the law so that now if somebody donates, that they will be high up on the list.
And if they are in need, that they will become able to have a donor.
Otherwise, Claire, how do they decide who gets priority?
And there are, of course, a million stories going around about famous people or politicians or people with a lot of pull who go toward the head of the list.
I've been working in the healing arts for about 20 years, and about 15 years, it just flashed on me that the question, and I want to elaborate in a second, but first of all, the question would be, it's not a question,
but organ rejection, one of the reasons that the body would reject the organ would be caused by the different cellular memories of the organ and the person that was receiving it, and that there would be out of resonance with each other.
So that there would be that conflict in it.
And that maybe that's one of the reasons that families, like you're talking about the brother and sister, that there would be not only a tissue match, but also a match going back intergenerational because of the inherited cellular memories.
Like, you've got the experience here, you can maybe help me out.
If you have a tape, okay, I've got some old programs on, and you say I want to record the Art Bell Show, and I take an old tape, but some of the old program has led over.
So I hear your program, but I hear a little bit of the interference off the old program because it didn't completely erase, and it kind of bleeds over a little bit.
The question I have, and please, I thank you for holding on, not cutting me off before now, but what would happen, Claire, do you think, if the same way that we erased a magnetic tape with kind of like a bulk-type eraser,
like an alternating frequency which would basically erase the tape, if you would subject the organs to that kind of electromagnetic field to somehow try and erase the tape so that the tissue and the organs would become neutral.
Yeah, if you listen carefully, Caller, she said that, in fact, there was a process, not electromagnetic, not a machine process, but a kind of cleansing that is done of organs to release a spirit.
Yeah, in releasing the trauma that the organs have experienced from the moment, the impact of death, releasing that, before the organs are placed into the recipient.
If we talk about the spiritual world for a moment, and you talk to people who have researched ghosts and so forth and so on, frequently, spirits that appear to be trapped on earth are those of people who died tragically and quickly.
In effect, they don't even know they're dead.
I imagine this young man had probably a head trauma that killed him.
He probably died instantly.
And so, in effect, if we're to believe there is a spirit beyond, and I do, then he perhaps did not even know he was dead.
That's right.
So I'm not saying that you were haunted, but I'm saying that it is more likely in that sort of case, I would imagine, that there would be more of the spirit left.
That stopped me in my tracks, walking down the street one day, thinking when I came back home, I had to have my medical records sent from Yale to back up here to Mayor's General.
And then I thought, well, wait a minute, what do I need those records for?
I don't have a medical history.
I don't have that old hole in my heart.
I used to have a murmur in my old heart.
And then I thought, well, wait a minute, I don't have that heart anymore.
That must be very important, serving as a collection point, because prior to this, Claire, there really wasn't much of a collection point for stories of people who have gone through this, was there?
There's very little that's been done because we researched it when we started getting into this, and there was very little out there and the scientific where the doctors are not really interested in recording what's going on with the patients.
Yeah, I don't know if that really is going to work because of my own experience and my own thought on it.
I'm very excited about what's happening and the fact that scientists are studying now the things that I'm talking about and that the discussion is happening now.
But some of the other things that are coming along, if they're misused, I think could be potentially dangerous.
Claire, I'm very interested to see what your comment will be on your experience seems to really dovetail what I'm studying in traditional Chinese medicine in regards to the human anatomy.
The Chinese believe that the mind and the spirit are associated somewhat with five internal organ networks in the body.
And looking up the heart and the lungs, the heart is associated with functions such as sleeping, thinking, memory, consciousness, mental activity.
And the lung is associated with what the Chinese called the corporeal soul, which is that part of the soul which is always attached to the body and after death it goes down into the earth.
It doesn't rise upward to any other, to a heaven or to some other plane of consciousness.
And the lungs with the corporeal cell are associated with our capacity for sensation, for feeling, for hearing, and for sight.
I was also feeling his rhythm, living with his heart.
We each have an individual heart rhythm, a beat, the way our heartbeat is different from one person to another.
So it was getting used to his whole being became the rhythm of my life, which was totally different from anything I had ever known before, causing me to do different things.
I mean, I talk about the trip I took to France a year after the surgery.
I had no idea why I was traveling around France carrying on like a young boy, sitting in train stations with other youth going on hostels.
Yeah, and my middle-aged woman's body was fighting, trying to keep up with this youthful energy of my heart that seemed to be propelling me there throughout this trip.
And I was wondering, why on earth am I doing this?
And yet I couldn't stop.
And then it wasn't until I met with a family over a year after that that I found that they were French-Canadian.
It was very difficult, but I took it each day at a time and lived with a sense that I wasn't really waiting, that I lived the fullest that I could each day because I never really knew if it was going to come.
I was really impressed of her great being and her survival, really.
It just happened that I found out about six months ago that one of my nephews who had gone through a transplant for his pancreas, his kidneys, his liver, had gone through almost to the verge of losing his toes because of the medication.
But if you were in that same condition, the condition you were in prior to the transplant, and they had offered you the opportunity to have animal organs instead, and the alternative was obvious, what decision do you think you would have made?
It's very hard when I'm asked a question like that to answer what if, what I would have done, because I didn't know what I was going to do the way it was until the moment the call Came in, I made the split-second decision at that moment.
No, I had lived not knowing what I would really do until that moment.
And I really can't say if I were I would think that probably if that were my only chance of survival, I might just go for it just the way I did if I knew that it's a possibility of prolonging my life just the way I did this last time.
But I don't know.
I never know what I'm going to do, what I'm going to be, what I'm going to say, given a certain situation.
Dr. Paul Pearsall, we used one of his stories in our book.
He's a scientist.
He had a transplant of his own, and he studied the transplant community.
He talks about a couple that were in a car having a fight.
It was a rainy night.
The windshield wipers were going quite strongly, and suddenly they couldn't see, and a car came right through the windshield and killed the man instantly.
Some time later, after she donated all of her husband's organs, she felt she really wanted to meet the person who had received his heart.
And Dr. Pearcell had set this up, and they got together, and he allowed her to place her hand on his chest so that she could feel her husband's heart beating within this man.
And she was able to resolve what she needed to in terms of that last fight and telling him that she was sorry and everything was all right.
Well, the way it was explained when I did the Phil Donahue show and they brought on a transplant surgeon, he said there are so many emotional issues that both sides have to deal with without meeting each other that that just makes it more confusing and brings in more emotion.
When he said that, the sisters of my heart who were on the program with us strongly disagreed and said, well, how would you know?
For us, it was very healing because she brought back something of Timmy to us, and it's wonderful to see that something so great can happen from such a tragedy.
And the body of doctors, the cardiac people, the doctors who were doing transplants there were very spiritual and were asking life-death questions the way we're talking on this program now, not just the medical things that the doctors tend to ask about in this country and not just statistics.
You know what would have been a very interesting experiment?
Curlian photography is fascinating.
And I wonder if a Curlian photograph of you prior to the transplant and after the transplant would have revealed something interesting, and I bet it would have.
Well, the last statistic I had, which was a few years ago, was that they've done 1,000 heart and lung transplants in the world, and only 50 of us are surviving.
Are you convinced that if the doctors would pay more attention to the spiritual side of it, along with the medical side of it, that the success rate would go way up?
Well, I think they need to pay more attention to it, yes.
I don't know if the doctors can, but I think the tunnel vision is necessary for them to do the miracles and the work that they're doing in their field, that the other people with the spiritual and the imagination and what the things we're talking about needs to be addressed, but let that be addressed by different people.
Well, when I came back from China, I was very chastened.
I was almost afraid because I realized what China is going to be.
And I think most Americans have no idea, unless they've been over there, what the world is facing as far as China's growth is concerned.
Eventually, they will probably lead the world.
Would you agree with that?
unidentified
Absolutely.
In fact, the little town of Senjin, which I first started coming to about 10 years ago, was simply a railroad station and railroad tracks and a few huts and a few buildings.
And before that, it was primarily duck farm.
And now it is one of the largest cities spreading all the way from the river to the west and over to the eastern side.
And it's one tall building after another.
And there must be right now, I would guess, 20 to 30 high-rise buildings, 100-story buildings that are going up simultaneously.
And most Americans just can't imagine it until they see it, and they should see it.
Let me ask you this.
What are you hearing about the reversion of Hong Kong?
How are things going in Hong Kong?
Do you have any idea?
unidentified
They're having some problems.
Basically, the handover went very, very smoothly.
I think all of us, in fact, I think in a way the press media, the 8,000 press people who were credentialed to come to Hong Kong were a little disappointed because they thought there was going to be a little bit more to it.
And really, in a way, it was kind of whole-hum.
A lot of them actually split and went to Cambodia two or three days before the handover because there was so little action and things were going so smoothly.
Right now, their biggest problem seems to be in the immigration of the children that have been spawned literally in China that want now to come over and live with their fathers in Hong Kong.
According to the basic law, which is the law that has been adapted for the new special administrative region, the children are given rights if one of the family members, one of the parents, is from Hong Kong.
However, there are so many of them because the fathers have been a little on the promiscuous side here in China, and there's thousands of them, which would really be a very difficult thing for Hong Kong to adapt to very quickly.
I'm surprised you went over to just look and to observe the handover and you've ended up up in the other special economic zone going to work to teach English.
How did you come to make that decision?
unidentified
Art, I'm a travel agent, and I've been coming to Hong Kong with groups three, four times a year for about the last ten years.
I'm from Sacramento, if I might put a plug-in for my town.
And so a lot of the people who have come here have returned with me, and we go to Bangkok and Singapore and so forth.
And I have a very close friend who lives in Senjin, and I've been coming over here for the last few years.
And since they are now in such a hurry to learn English, because sitting right on the Hong Kong border, this whole entire area of Hong Kong and Senjin will be the threshold to China.
It will be the threshold into Beijing and to Shanghai and to Guilin.
If you came by train, then you would have come in about a mile west of where I'm sitting right now, where the trains come in.
I'm talking right now about the 18-wheelers that are nose to nose and toes to toes going across the New Territory Road, and I have direct access to that right now, and I've been taping it almost all afternoon, and I was so surprised.
And as you go further in, and I presume you have been from time to time, you can go to towns where they have not seen Westerners, and they are so curious, people will literally come rushing out of shops and stores just to stare at you.
unidentified
Yes, in fact, if you really want to start a commotion, what you do is you take your camera out and you open it up and take a cartridge of film out of it.
And by the time you have gotten another cartridge back in there, you probably have a dozen people standing around watching every move that you're making.
They're tremendously curious about Westerners, about our culture, about our skin color, about our hair color.
I've even had people on the street come up and touch my hair.
And when I go to the beauty shop, all they do is just stand there and shake their heads because they're not used to the fineness of the Western hair.
Do you have a computer or are you able to get on the Internet from that economic zone?
unidentified
I will have.
This friend that I told you who lives here in Shenzhen, that's a very good friend, is making arrangements today, in fact, to get onto Internet.
The Internet has taken over in China like you cannot believe, even though it's extremely expensive because you have to pay for calls on the telephone and everything that you use through a modem.
But even the expense is something that they're all going in for, and the proliferation of computers here is just beyond comprehension.
I can believe it because I have something here called iPhone, which allows you not only to talk to somebody, for example, in China, but to see them as well.
It's a remarkable new technology, and you might want to look into it.
I'd be glad to help you out with it if I can, but I'm talking to people in China all the time that way.
I've been trying for about the last two weeks to call you, and I was getting a busy signal all the time, and I'm about ready to go out right now, and I was so surprised to get a hold of you.
Well, Betty, I let your last name go out, which I normally don't do, but we are, of course, aired in Sacramento, and I imagine your family is either hearing you or will hear about it.
It is the most shocking thing you've ever seen in your whole life.
The amount of commerce coming across the border is not to be believed until you see it.
Anyway, if you are outside the country someplace or another, we do have a toll-free international line, and the way you utilize it is to call the AT ⁇ T operator.
Actually, there are two ways.
You can get the country code, the AT ⁇ T country code for whatever country you're in.
Dial that.
Or failing that, just get the AT ⁇ T operator and have her call 800-893-0903.
That's 800-893-0903, and we will pay for the call on this end, even all the way from China.
And then I got a message from the LaGrange MUFON guy who said, we didn't know anything about it.
And he gave me a fax number.
And I said, I'd be glad to send you all I've got on it.
And I tried to, and his fax number was no answer, non-operative during the hours he said it was there.
But let me read this to you.
Dear Art, I heard about the LaGrange UFO on your show, but I thought it had been declared to be a hoax.
Then I received this week's copy of UFO Roundup, a weekly email publication, and lo and behold, V-shaped UFO appears over LaGrange, Georgia.
Last weekend, at the same time white UFOs were flying over Arizona, radio station WGST in Georgia reported a UFO being seen over the last few nights over LaGrange.
Morning DJ Ian Ponette, is that correct, P-O-N-N-E-T, reportedly interviewed the captain of the LaGrange PD about the incidents.
The UFO was seen to hover, quote, for an extended period of time, end quote, on the night of Sunday, July 13th, 1997.
The object appeared to hover at an altitude of approximately 10,000 feet or 3,030 meters.
It was substantial in size and had the same characteristics, V-shaped plus lights, of the UFOs recently sighted in Phoenix.
It was reportedly seen by thousands of people.
On June 24th, pilot Jerry T encountered unusual phenomena while flying over LaGrange.
He reported while flying VFR, visual flight rules, at 5,000 feet in clear air under a perfectly smooth, heavy overcast layer at 8,000.
I saw what appeared to be five holes in the clouds about five miles east of LaGrange.
The holes were perfectly round and approximately 300 yards, 900 feet, or 270 meters in size.
Below, each cloud was a residue of cloud that was very thin and transparent.
It appeared to me that something punched downward, creating the holes and pushing some of the cloud vapor with it.
Jerry ruled out air turbulence, pointing out that, quote, turbulence, depending on altitude, would cause the clouds to mix, erasing the hole.
These openings remained intact for more than half an hour.
Well, I'm going to be thoughtful for some time on how I feel about the whole thing.
You know, even after interviewing her, and she's been alive a decade when she would not have been otherwise, there are some pretty profound questions that come from that.
You know, I had a comment about that and also a question for you about it.
The comment is I'm a diabetic that is now on dialysis, and I'm hoping to get a double transplant, a pancreas and a kidney.
The problem is, they consider that an experimental procedure, although it's been around for over 10 years, and they won't be able to.
They suggested to me that I have about $20,000 to $40,000 worth of bake sales and yard sales and raise the money on my own.
And I was thinking what you would think about something like that, since it seemed like it would benefit the medical insurances to go ahead and do the double transplant now, which would save them money in the long run, because if I continue to be diabetic, I would just, you know, wear out another kidney.
And I'm thinking quite a lot of sense.
And, you know, the amount of money that diabetes in general eats up in medical bills.
Yes, but if they said, sorry, no human donors available, but we do have this experimental animal transplant organ for you, would you go for it, do you think?
unidentified
You know, I think it'd have to be really down to the wire.
now we take you back to the night of july 21st 1997 on art bell somewhere in time There are a couple of the most amazing crop circles you've ever seen in your whole life on my website right now.
We've got exclusive use of these images from England, a special deal with the crop circle connector.
And they got us these very quickly.
And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, if you can make your way to a computer, you've got to see these.
And I want you to contemplate, as you look at them, several things.
One, what you think they might mean.
Two, whether you consider it even remotely possible that a human being could have done these.
And I would like your input.
I just got a fax from Ron in Birmingham, Alabama.
And Ron is contemplating the Bajin wind-up radio.
And he's wondering when they're going to come out with a wind-up fax machine.
And that leads to all kinds of questions.
What about a wind-up TV?
Or a wind-up computer.
Or a wind-up light.
Ah, they are coming out with that.
Soon, a wind-up flashlight.
I probably wasn't supposed to tell you that, but it's coming.
And one can imagine wind-up, well, how about a wind-up microwave oven?
Now, that'd be handy out there in the boondocks, wouldn't it?
Well, you're referring, thank you, to the hard sciences.
In other words, electromagnetics.
That's in the, even though it's not widely understood, it would come under the category of the hard sciences.
And I certainly agree with you.
We have a long way to go.
I also believe that if we are to continue in this mode of transplanting major organs from one person to another, that we need to begin addressing the spiritual side of it.
And I think the outcome would be a lot more positive.
But even having said that, I'm still not sure.
I'm not sure it's right.
I'm just not sure.
That's a terrible place to be in, to be unsure.
On the other hand, I suppose if I were on my deathbed, given the opportunity to have more life, I'd go for it.
That's probably an honest answer.
I think I would, anyway.
Now, faced with the option of an animal organ, I'm not as sure.
And now the most fascinating sight about the shuttle takeoff was in the background, up in the sky, as a craft entered the atmosphere, was a group of three white objects up behind the shuttle.
And was it something in their lens maybe?
No, the shuttle passed right in front of these three circular objects and came right out underneath it.
Well, you know, there's an awful lot going on when there's a launch, and cameras are subject to all kinds of blooming and weird things that go on with that kind of light intensity.
unidentified
You would think so, but as a shadow passed right in front of those three objects up in the sky, and it comes right out the other side.
It wasn't something in the lens.
There was a group of three objects, circular objects, up behind it.
Now, the color of it was white, similar to what the moon would look like in a blue sky.
I just found that most interesting.
I was hoping you could find out more about it, maybe get a clip of it, and have Richard Hoagland look at it.
She's experiencing some side effects from the rejection drug she's taking.
unidentified
Okay, well, I was just going to say that if it actually was rejection, that with the organs of a teenage male, she'll get over it and it'll be fine eventually.
Secondly, the woman who spoke about her medical problems just a second ago, I had an aunt who had breast cancer, and the doctors at the University of Minnesota told her that her best treatment option was an autologous bone marrow transplant, which at that time was experimental right and her insurance company which i
Yeah, they wouldn't go along with it.
And she fought it in court, and she won.
So maybe that woman should just look at those options with her insurance company.
And also, the area that I'm from, I've heard about your book, The Quickening, and it's interesting to hear someone with environmental concerns on a talk show specifically.
The area in which I'm from is southwest Minnesota.
Anyway, I'm a kidney pancreas transplant patient, and I just got home from having some corrective surgery done this week, and was intending on turning you on about a half an hour ago, and I missed it up until about the last 10 minutes.
I could have had a living donor give me a kidney, but in order to resolve my diabetes, I had to have a cadaveric donor, which meant someone had to die.
And that's something that you really wrestle with because you don't ever want to be in a position, whether you're sitting on a dialysis machine or you're sitting on a heart machine, that you're wishing that someone would die.
But that is, that's kind of what it comes Down to, isn't it?
unidentified
That you're wishing for the organ, therefore you're wishing someone would die.
And in reality, and this is the part we have to come to grips with, people do die.
People do die.
You're going to die, Art, so am I. It's the one thing we don't escape, is we will die.
And if I had not been born a diabetic, if I had been healthy and my organs were available, I would rather have them provide life for someone else.
I met twins this past year, no, they weren't twins, they were brothers anyway, this past year, and one of them had received a kidney from the same donor that gave the liver to Mickey Mantle.
That donor provided eyes, lungs, heart.
There were so many people that were saved by that one donor's death.
And it was a decision that that donor made before he died that my organs can go to help people's lives.
If it had really come down to it and there had not been a human organ available but had been an animal organ available, what do you think you would have done?
unidentified
I think I would have to have a little more of a track record.
I think I'm a little uneasy.
I don't think that I would be 100% against it if there was more of a track record, if there was more information.
Now, on the other hand, depending upon how critical my situation was, I might actually say, okay, hey, go ahead.