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July 21, 1997 - Art Bell

02:54:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Claire Sylvia - Organ Transplant

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01:02:15

claire sylvia

46:09

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unidentified		Welcome to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be.
		And welcome to another edition of another week in Coast to Coast A.M. Live talk radio while the others sit up there and recycle endlessly again and again.
		We are here live from the East and Point Islands in the West East Virginia and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
		Puerto Rico South America, North Line on the Old Internet.
		This is close a.
		And I'm working.
		And for the first couple of hours, we're going to be in open lines.
		At midnight tonight, we're going to go all the way back to Boston.
		This was not an easy interview to get, but it's one that I've wanted to do for a long time.
		I wonder how many of you out there know the name Claire Sylvia.
		Claire Sylvia is a very, very interesting woman who, and I can't recall the show whether it was dateline or 2020 or, you know, you get them all confused after a while, but they did a big segment on her.
		She was the recipient of the heart and lungs of a teenage boy.
		She is in her 50s.
		And as I understand the story, and there's nothing like getting it from the lips of the recipient, Clarisovia immediately acquired the cravings of this teenage boy.
		Now, again, I could be wrong, and we'll find out for sure, but it is also my understanding that heart-lung transplants, or organ transplants in general, are done anonymously.
		In other words, you don't know who gave them to you.
		She dreamt the name of her donor.
		She dreamt the name of her donor.
		Now, you think about that a little bit, because I sure am.
		And we'll find out if that is true.
		She is going through some rejection problems right now.
		And so I really had to do some talking to get her up at 3 o'clock back near Boston, but up she will be.
		I think her story is important.
		And I think that it is important that we understand what she has been through.
		And it might help us to understand whether we would go through it under similar circumstances.
		It might help us to understand the nature of the soul.
		It might help us to understand a lot of things.
		So I have Claire Sylvia lined up for the midnight hour.
		Tomorrow night, at the beginning of the show, 10 o'clock, Leonard Nimoy, otherwise known to many or most of you as Mr. Spock from Star Trek, will be here.
		Oh, you know me.
		I'm a big Trekkie.
		I'm a big Trekkie.
		And he's doing some new things, and we'll talk about that.
		Now, let me see, which night did I get this set for?
		Thursday night, Friday morning.
		Jim Keith will be here.
		And he has written a book called Case Book, The Real Story of the Men in Black.
		And that should be fascinating.
		As you know, there's a movie out called The Men in Black.
		I've not yet seen it.
		But Jim is going to give you the serious side of The Men in Black.
		And so I know a lot of you will look forward to that.
		And there are a couple of other things that I cannot talk about yet that I'm working on this week.
		So that's kind of what's going on.
		I just wanted to give you a sneak peek ahead at what's coming this week.
		It should be very, very interesting.
		The hunt for Kunanan continues.
		We're told now that he may be dressing up as a woman.
		That is going to make finding him very difficult.
		Very, very difficult.
		And I don't envy the police the job of trying to determine.
		One would presume he's probably pretty good at it, too.
unidentified		Dressing as a woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yikes.
		The news on Mirror is that the repairs will await a new crew.
		And they always say things like, well, the new crew will be fresher, you know, and they'll be more ready to proceed.
		What it really means is there's something seriously askew with this crew.
		And you've always got to read in between the headlines and listen very carefully to what they say and more importantly, what they don't say.
		So I'm still very, very concerned and thinking very hard about this whole mere business.
		It may interest you to know that on the 20th, that's right, on the 20th, the scientists at NASA lost contact at the propulsion lab, actually in Pasadena, lost contact with the Sojourner.
		And for quite a while, we didn't have contact.
		They had a carrier, but no real contact.
		So I guess it's over there parked up against Scooby-Doo.
		But it was eerie that on the 20th of all dates, and for a long period they lost, and I believe today they claim they got contact back.
		Very, very strange, indeed.
		For the first time in its 77-year history, the Miss America pageant is going to give its contestants an option to participate in the swimsuit competition or not.
		In other words, they'll be able to say, no, I'd rather not do that.
		No thongs or bikinis will be allowed.
		Said the director, it's not supposed to be sexual or sexy, and it's not going to be.
		It's not?
		Sure could have fooled me.
		What's wrong with having the swimsuit contest be sexy?
		I mean, what's the whole point of the swimsuit thing in the first place?
		I guess it's not politically correct to say that, huh?
		I don't know.
		In Washington politics, the one interesting thing that has gone on is the coup d'etat.
		I really only thought they had coup d'etats in small banana republics, but Congressman Bill Paxson and company were apparently, or it is alleged they were, planning, in effect, a coup d'etat to get rid of Newt Gingrich.
		Newt caught wind of it, gave Bill Paxson the evil eye, which Paxson described as, well, I looked in his eyes, and it was clear to me that he had lost confidence.
		And Paxson resigned from his leadership position, and the coup is squished, mooshed over.
		At any rate, that's what they're calling it, a coup.
		And that's about the most interesting thing going on in politics in America right now.
		It's not very interesting, actually.
		And I've said this for some time, and I'll say it again right now, of politics, it seems to me, is less and less relevant to the daily lives or needs or thoughts of the American people, whether or not Newt Gingrich is ejected.
		That's the big fight.
		Frankly, that's not going to change my life one way or the other.
		How about yours?
		I saw a little teaser for a program I didn't see, which was on, I think, Dateline.
		And it was about natural-born killers.
		There apparently is a new study done by MRI, which has shown that 60% of killers have a specific brain abnormality.
		Now, isn't that interesting?
		Six out of ten have a specific brain abnormal condition which an MRI can detect.
		Now, this could mean many things.
		For example, suppose you went in for one reason or another and got an MRI, and they detected this same malady in you.
		Does that mean that you should be watched?
		Does that mean you would be watched?
		Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child.
		Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child prior to birth.
		It really got me thinking, natural-born killers.
		Something that can actually be diagnosed by MRI.
		Extremely interesting, huh?
		We'll get to open lines in a moment.
		The Beijing Rei.
		Oh, there is one more thing.
		Actually, two more things.
		If you'll go up to my website right now, you will see two of the most incredible crop circles I have ever seen in my whole life.
		One clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
		And I wish to make, they're both from England, by the way, one from Wooltshire, and I'm not sure of the origin of the other.
		I want to make an observation about these crop circles.
		If these were done by Doug and Dave or any other human being, something I do not believe, they could not be as perfect as they are.
		I mean, these are so intricate, so perfect, so beautiful, that I refuse to believe, and I mean I refuse to believe that a human being has done these.
		I suggest you go up there quickly and take a look.
		They are, well, let me put it this way, and I really mean it.
		They will take your breath away.
		And I would like to get your comments on them.
		We have cut a deal with people at the Crop Circle connector, the Crop Circle Connector, that's a site in Britain.
		And we are now the exclusive, I repeat, the exclusive outlet for these photographs in the United States.
		And for that, I want to thank them.
	We had a bit of a struggle and came to a very satisfactory conclusion.
	And as I mentioned, we are now the exclusive outlet for these photographs.
	So you're going to be seeing a lot of them.
	And this season's crop circles, folks, are absolutely astounding.
	I mean, they are astounding.
	As I tried to say, they will absolutely take your breath away.
	So take a look at my site.
	Go take a look at these crop circles.
	You'll see it under the new news items.
	And we could talk a little bit, if you wish, about crop circles.
	After you see these, I would love to have you come up here and try to make an argument to me that these have been done by human beings.
unidentified		I don't think so.
		Here's some exciting news for Coast to Coast fans.
		If you're already a Streamlink member, you know what a super value our subscriber service is.
		For around 15 cents a day, you get such great features as Podcast.
		That's automatic downloads of Coast to Coast shows directly onto your computer desktop or MP3 player.
		But now, we've greatly expanded our full show library so you have access to multi-year downloads.
		Imagine having hundreds of your favorite Coast to Coast shows right at your fingertips to listen to, collect, and take on the go with you.
		As a Streamlink member, you also get access to a whole library of Art Bell classic Somewhere-in-Time shows, available as streamed broadcasts.
		Plus, our fun live chat sessions held twice a month.
		There's never been a better time to join Streamlink.
		Visit coast2coastam.com today to sign up on our secure servers.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, also a message here from Skip Frombach.
		And it says a team of seven researchers, this is a Bigfoot-related, a team of seven researchers while investigating the site of my encounter of July 15th, 1989, Dreamland No.
		So-and-so, Adam discovered hair samples which match the very description I gave in a report to Peter Byrne of the Bigfoot Research Project.
		These samples have been forwarded to labs in Canada by Dr. Henner Ferenbach of the Oregon Regional Primate Research Center and can also be made available to additional research labs for DNA analysis.
		Please pass this information to your listeners.
		So maybe, just maybe, we've got some hair from Bigfoot.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, is this Art by the way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Yeah, Art, this is Mike from Fresno, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be KFRE territory.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		And listen, I'd like to go over some things that some definitions in which define communication.
		You know, we have our internet system with satellites floating around our atmosphere here.
		And I guess it was Alan Shepard.
		He was the first one to break the brim of our atmosphere.
		And then it was John Glenn that broke a brim of our atmosphere and went around it a couple times.
		And, you know, in theological terms or biblical terms, when you're communicating, you're standing on a rock.
		A small rock would be a stone, the brimstone.
		And, you know, could our telecommunication satellites be confirmed as the brimstone?
		Is that a possibility?
		I have it on my consideration table.
		I've put it on yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll go along with you for a moment here.
		Imagine this.
		Imagine a gigantic flare on the sun.
		Yeah.
		I mean a monster.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've been known to do what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Knock out satellites, right?
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do we have now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got fire and brimstone.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call, and I enjoyed that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
		Would have been Wildcard Line, you're on air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am fine.
unidentified		Art, you know, I've been thinking about it.
unidentified		This is Tony KXNT Country over here in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas.
unidentified		And I've been thinking about it.
unidentified		That triangle that Francis Barwood you had on talked about in Phoenix, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just Francis Barwood.
unidentified		Well, yeah, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Everybody, virtually.
		But here, let me get a breath of fresh air here.
		Ah, that falls good.
		She and everybody else that saw that UFO, it just came to mind to me that there are many accounts of mile-wide triangular Chevron-shaped UFOs, one of which was in Hudson Valley, New York, and appeared over several different parameters of time throughout the mid-80s.
		And it was reported to be of the same width and virtual size of the Phoenix triangle as well as the Belgium triangle.
		Do you remember about those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and the one I saw, Tony.
		Don't forget that one.
		So where are we going?
		There are triangles, yes.
unidentified		Yes, and I just thought that was kind of funny.
		When I brought up on Michael Reagan's show, the triangle in Phoenix, and that three and a half months later, they talked about it on ABC, NBC, CBS, and you know, I couldn't believe it, Michael Reagan being who he is and an information source, that he had never heard of this UFO sighting, nor...
		Yeah, really?
		And nor did he hear about the, nor did he hear about Frances Barwood, which I couldn't believe.
		I mean, you'd think he'd know who a city councilwoman was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily in Phoenix.
		Thank you, Tony.
		Not necessarily in Phoenix.
		But that he would not have heard of the Phoenix sightings.
		Now, that is fairly remarkable because that was a subject of considerable fodder for the major media.
		He mentioned ABC, CBS, NBC, but MSNBC, CNN, on and on and on.
		Just about every news outlet that I know of synchronistically reported on it at the same time.
		So he should have caught at least that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, my friend Ott Bell, talking about the grab circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Prince!
unidentified		Keep us reporting.
unidentified		We need the information on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the new ones yet?
unidentified		No, no, no, I have not.
		But an alert here, we have a special coming out Monday night the 28th.
		Time zone could be California time 8 o'clock.
		Here in Phoenix, it's 7 o'clock.
		Fox Network.
		UFO, do you believe?
		Something like that.
		The best evidence on cut and tape.
		So they will show a tremendous amount of footage and UFOs on the Fox Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that only in Phoenix?
		You're out there?
		Oh, nationwide.
unidentified		Yes, so you have it.
unidentified		Look on your television guide page something 101.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see the big advertising.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I just want to let everybody know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you, Fritz.
		And also go up there and check out these new crop circles.
		I mean, they are astounding.
		They really are astounding.
		One of them clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
		You guys tell me.
		They're on my website right now.
		Keith just got them up as we acquired exclusive rights to the Crop Circle Connector, the very latest from the Crop Circle Connector, exclusively here in the U.S. on my website at www.artbell.com.
		I mean, really, take a look at those and let me know what you think.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		21st, 1997.
		The days come and you wouldn't take my way.
		I let no one take your way.
		Get hurt if you can.
		You're listening to Wark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, I'd like to urge you to go up and take a look at those crop circles.
		There's no way in God's Green Earth that any human being did those.
		There's just no way.
		Take a good look.
		They're intricate, they're amazing, they're beautiful, and they're big.
		Here's the first reaction.
		Hi, Art.
		Just took a look at the new crop circles on your website, and all I can say is totally cruel.
		Doug and Dave couldn't make crop circles like that if their life depended on it.
		And I agree with that.
		There's no way.
		There's no way that human beings...
		Now, I'm not saying that extraterrestrials are doing it, but I'm saying Doug and Dave sure aren't.
unidentified		The End You've been hearing about the After Dark newsletter for years.
		It was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
		Ever wonder what's in it?
		Call right now to subscribe.
		It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
		Writers from all over the United States pitch in with stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more including information about each show that ran in the past month.
		Give it a try by calling toll-free 188-727-5505.
		That's 1888-727-5505.
		The lines are open right now, even in the middle of the night.
		Or sign up online at www.coastocoastam.com.
		Click through the orange type to that secure server.
		That's coasttocasedam.com or 1888-727-5505.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		on art bell somewhere in time First time caller live, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there, it's Kelly from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Kelly.
unidentified		A couple quickies.
unidentified		First of all, I heard Doug of the famous crowd circle Dave and Doug team died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would certainly eliminate him, more or less.
unidentified		Yeah, now here's something that I've been trying to get out.
		It's kind of interesting.
		I was looking through Buzz Auburn's book, I believe it was called Back to Earth, and he was talking about a party that Apollo 10 and 11 principals were having, and they had a really big laugh watching a film of Fred Hayes climbing up the lunar ladder and stumbling as it crumbled beneath his feet and falling onto the moon.
		Now, what's interesting is that Fred Hayes, there's no record of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon, and NASA has no record, public record of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, the answer to that is simple.
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did it when they filmed Capricorn One.
unidentified		Well, you know, it opens up a lot of stuff for speculation.
unidentified		I think they were there, but I kind of found that quite amusing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, the way things go today, I promise you, and I'm afraid to say this because I'll get a million of them now, but they could put together a very convincing shot of an astronaut that we know, Aldrin, whoever, on the moon with another spacesuit nearby, and you'd be able to just make out through the faceplate that it was Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guarantee.
unidentified		Well, this was actually from 19 in the early 70s after the mission.
		Apollo 10 didn't have time to have a post-mission party.
		So this is certainly not current technology.
		This was quite some time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but what I'm trying to point out is you can add anything to anything.
		Believe me.
		And you can do it so that the truth simply cannot be discerned.
		You know the alien autopsy?
		Some wild person out there managed to morph me into the alien autopsy.
		And I get serious questions about it all the time.
		They've got a young art bell with a microphone, a ham microphone in his hand, sitting next to this poor creature being autopsied.
		And it looks as real as real can be.
		But it's not.
		It's simply a very talented person.
		And so it's a lesson well learned.
		And believe me, they could put me in a spacesuit and put me on Mars faster than you can say a corral draw.
		Wild card line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, all right.
unidentified		This is Vince in Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Vince.
unidentified		Yeah, you know that when you had the reverse speech of Colonel Haynes on the case closed Roswell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's poor Colonel Haynes.
unidentified		Yeah, poor Colonel Haynes.
unidentified		I was quite interested when they asked Colonel Haynes about the Groon Lake or Area 51 area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Some of his reversals there were really kind of telling.
unidentified		He talked about Lucifer being there and something about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember the program, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, and they're going to give you a mark and you will be slaves.
		It's like the Antichrist in Revelation.
		And it kind of got me to thinking, do you ever recall Richard Hoagland ever explaining the number 666?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think that's one number he's not publicly tackled.
unidentified		I'm just wondering if the number 666, how this plays in with the sacred geometry or the hyper-dimensional physics, if it has any place in some of the things that Richard Hogman talks about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about Richard, but you should ask me about that number.
unidentified		What do you know about that, Eric?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I part my hair a certain way.
		And it's for a reason.
		What do you think that reason might be?
unidentified		Maybe you're losing part of some of your hair?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		No, my hair is very prolific.
		But I part it in a certain way because I'm covering up.
unidentified		Oh, you got the mark of the beast on your forehead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some numbers, yeah.
		I always, when I was a child, I tried to tell myself it was 999.
		I mean, it depends, you know, how you look at it, right?
unidentified		Yeah, I was just wondering about that number, though.
unidentified		I just kind of thought that maybe somehow this number plays into all that alien stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, oh, yeah.
		It's not a random number.
		There's no question about it.
		It's not a random number.
		It has very specific meaning for a lot of people.
unidentified		You know, speaking of numbers, Art, I'm going to throw a couple data points at you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Data points.
unidentified		Yes.
		March 13th, when we had the lights over Phoenix, that was the night that Old Navy Stores had their advertising blitz where they ran a commercial that said, and the winner is Magic Comes Back.
		And that was the date of that week on the 1-800 line that Old Navy Stores has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Richard Hovland talked about this.
unidentified		That week they had Scottish plaid t-shirts 1950 on sale for $16.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, why is it you feel compelled to replay my own programs to me?
		I remember this.
		I did program it.
unidentified		Well, I've been calling that number ever since, and this week they have that number again, 1950.
		They have short-sleeved men's shirts on sale for $15 regularly $19.50.
		And that's that number that Richard Holwood talks about.
		This has meaning.
		I'm wondering if it does.
		Those shirts are on sale, by the way, till July 24th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You probably work for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is an ad, right?
unidentified		You never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Goodbye, sir.
		I'll bet he does.
		That sounded just like an ad to me, didn't it, to you?
		Here, watch.
		apart my hair for the camera so all you with with your the cameras out there i was thought you know mama told me was nine nine nine but it's The other way around, it's right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		K-R-N, 920, Little Rock, Arkansas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've got a guest I want to suggest for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to suggest a guest?
unidentified		Yes, Dr. Michael Kaufman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Former employee of Champion Lumber Company.
		And also wrote Saviors of the Earth.
		He can prove to you that the Earth is not warm, but it is actually decreased in temperature 0.3335 degrees.
		And contact Chuck Carter and get a hotel of him.
		Chuck set him on.
		And he's against this Al Gore Biosphere program we've got going.
		You in?
		And I think you appreciate the counterbalance, some of these special case weirdos we've been having on.
		Although I love it, Art.
		I enjoy your program.
		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why is it weirder to say it's warming up than it is to say it's cooling down?
unidentified		Well, Nelson's got the facts.
unidentified		Assuming we got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the answer is it's doing neither.
		In other words, if you take the guys who are saying it's cooling down and the guys who are saying it's warming up and you average it, what do you get?
		Well, what you get is what we got.
		Think about it.
		Wildguard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Hello.
		I'm calling from Sheboygan, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sheboygan.
unidentified		All right.
		First off, I'd like to apologize for a caller from La Cross you had the other day.
		He's complaining about some of the advertising you do.
		I love your show.
		It's not representative of our state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that's all right.
		People can complain about anything they want.
		I don't care.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		I was wondering if you had any follow-up information as to, I can't remember if it was a caller or a guest who was speaking about the 65,000 feet altitude limit that was imposed by the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That there was a law that civilians could not launch something beyond that.
unidentified		Is that confirmed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely not.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		No, it's absolutely not confirmed.
		That is just something somebody said.
		Of course, by the time it is retold and then retold, it gets to be inscribed in stone.
		First time caller line, you're on air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
unidentified		My name's Michael, and I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Michael.
unidentified		And I'd like to suggest possibly a future topic for your show.
		Like what?
		Well, I haven't heard anything about this yet.
		On your show or anywhere in the press, I was wondering if you're aware that last month a European satellite called SOHO discovered that the planet Venus has a cometary tail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not know that.
unidentified		Well, the only reason I'm aware of that is because up here in Portland, there was a conference on the theories of Immanuel Velikovsky and planetary violence in human history.
		And apparently, there's electrical interaction now going on between Venus and the planet Earth.
		And there's this tail which stretches 45 million kilometers from the orbit of Venus all the way to Earth.
		And within this tail, there are actually these rope-like structures which are called Birkland currents, which is proof, I believe, of electrical activity occurring between the two planets.
		Because if this was just smoke blowing in the wind, then that much structure would not be able to be maintained over millions of miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Smoke blowing in what wind?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
unidentified		Correct, yes.
		But I haven't heard any explanation from NASA about this because this was not something that they expected.
		But I don't know if you're familiar with the work of Emmanuel Volikov.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am, yes, to some degree, yes.
unidentified		Yes, but his two key tenets were that, number one, which got him in the most trouble, were that the planet Venus once was a comet that had a near collision with the planet Earth.
unidentified		and also that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Venus is.
		So that makes it squarely a planet, I think.
		And a comet, would you say they are defined by their size?
		Something is the size of a meteorite or a comet, or comets generally are associated or said to be dirty snowballs with a high water content.
		And then there's something the size of a planet.
		On our international line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
unidentified		This is Henry from Bullhead City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		Bullhead City, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're on a wrong line, sir.
		You're going to have to give us a shot on another line, so I don't know how you got mixed up into that line.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Kate of Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, if you remember me, I was the one who used my CB handle, Eagle 17.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vaguely.
unidentified		Remember?
		Well, I was the one who asked you if you had a radio station in New York City.
		I mean, your radio city?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're getting cut off there, partner.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm sorry.
		That was Colin Waiting.
		That was about a radio show.
		You got your radio show in New York City?
		Have you got, are you in New York now with WABC?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
		We've been on WABC.
		It is little known twice already.
		And we are talking to WABC.
		So when it happens on a permanent basis, you'll be the first to know.
unidentified		Okay, because I have a friend, my friend John, CB Handles Eagle One.
		He lives in Oakdale, New York, and there's a station owned by CBC, WALK, right down the road in Patchogue, New York.
		You might want to call them up to see if your show could be aired, because there's a lot of stations on Long Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there are two Chancellor broadcastings.
unidentified		Yeah, there are two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that may not be our Chancellor.
unidentified		in fact i can tell you it is not okay well anyway i've got what i wanted to ask you is so we have david john votes on Yeah, when you have them on, here's some questions I'd like to ask, if you get a chance.
unidentified		On the reverse speech, what kind of findings do you have if, say, someone is under hypnosis claiming to be abducted by aliens, someone who is schizophrenic who claims to be Napoleon or Einstein, and someone who has drugs or alcohol or alcohol?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If somebody is schizophrenic, that would mean that they believe themselves, right, what they are saying.
		Whacked out as it may be, they absolutely believe it.
		And so then, would you find congruence in the reversals?
		I would like to know that myself.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good evening, Ark.
		You've got the professor here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hello.
unidentified		How are you this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spiffy.
unidentified		Well, look, there's some things I wanted to talk to you about.
		I know we're up against the clock and we don't have much time.
		Crop circles.
		Why can't they be made by our saucer craft, by our engineers engineering it for a certain purpose?
		I don't know if you've noticed, but there's a crop circle that has the tree of life, which happens to be the religion of the Kabbalah, the way to immortality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely possible.
		I had a guest on last night, Dr. Brian O'Leary, astronaut, who said that indeed these may be, I don't want to say figments of our imagination, but figments of our id.
		In other words, we may actually be doing it with our own mind.
unidentified		I suggest something else.
		I suggest we're being forced into a religion.
		And let me tell you, there was the first crop circle this year.
		You can go look at the crop circle connector, check it out.
		Of course, now you have access to it and outlet for it.
		It was six sixes, like a sawblade.
		Six sixes.
		I tell you, you've heard me talk about the evil entity.
		And Dr. Malachi, I mean, Malachi Martin, I want to correct something.
		He said, there is no profile for those that could be possessed.
		I've had two very interesting attacks by demons in which they tried to grab me, and they did grab me.
		The only thing I could move was my head.
		And I invoked the name of Jesus Christ and quickly dispatched them.
		One of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know that's true, though?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we know that you are not at this very moment possessed, feeding us disinformation?
unidentified		Because of my fruits.
		Because of the things I do.
		Listen, I do want to say hey to everybody in the chat rooms.
		I'll be there in just a moment, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you go in there and you prove to them you're not possessed.
unidentified		No, hey, Art, one more time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suggest everybody, what chat room is it?
unidentified		I like your chit chat, all of them.
unidentified		On your, you know, the Blue Room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about my website.
unidentified		Yeah, do you ever go in there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was in there last week, yeah.
unidentified		What is your name you use, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell.
unidentified		Y'all get out of here.
unidentified		Are you for real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you expect me to use?
unidentified		Okay, I look forward to seeing you in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell happens to be my real name.
unidentified		I look forward to seeing you in there, Art.
		One more thing, though, about the demons that are attacking people right now.
		Malachi Martin said they can possess anyone, not anyone that's saved by Jesus Christ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to prove something to you now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your name in the chat room?
unidentified		Professor Alien Storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's too long.
unidentified		That's what it is.
unidentified		PAS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		PAS, huh?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want you to go in there and I want everybody in that chat room to demand that you prove that you are not perfectly possessed.
		All right?
unidentified		They do that all the time in your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want them to demand that of you, and I want to know how it comes out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right?
unidentified		Be there in a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I mean, really put him to the test, folks.
		Demand that he have proof positive.
		I mean, here he claims that these devils grabbed him twice.
		But he was quicker on the draw than they were.
		Used the name of Jesus Christ and warded them off.
		Well, how do we know?
		I suggest you make him prove that.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air, huh?
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
		It's been a while since I last talked to you.
		I was the one that sent in a tape to you of Willie Nelson and another interview of Dr. David Viscott, or the late Dr. David Viscott, talking with the professor from Temple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I haven't heard you mention any of that yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not yet.
unidentified		But it does kind of fit in with everything you've been doing lately.
unidentified		The professor, as a matter of fact, had talked about alien abductions and implants and things kind of having to do with aliens entering through windows and taking people out of the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't have to enter through windows.
		They float through walls and doors and windows, and they just float through as though they weren't even there.
		They don't knock.
		They don't go through.
		They just float through.
		That's the way it is.
unidentified		Watching every motion in my footsteps, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you right now, check out my website for the new crop circle photos.
unidentified		All this damn ocean finally love is no mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you have never seen anything like them in your life As I said earlier, they'll take your breath away.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM
		I see trees of green, red roses, too.
		I see them blue for me new.
		And I think to myself, What a wonderful world I see skies of blue and clouds of white the bright, blessed day.
		The dogs say goodnight.
		Can I think to myself?
		Hear the teamwork bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Post-A-Cost AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest in a moment is going to be a lady named Claire Sylvia.
		Claire is back somewhere near Boston.
		And there was a 2020 piece done on Claire, who received the heart and lungs of a young boy.
		And I'm going to kind of let her tell it in her own way, and we're going to explore it.
		I never did see the piece.
		I heard it.
		And as you know, we did a whole program on the subject.
		Or maybe you don't know.
		But what you're about to hear is absolutely remarkable.
		So we'll get to that in a moment.
unidentified		The After Dark newsletter was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
		Call right now to subscribe.
		It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
		There are stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more.
		Call 188-727-5505 or go online at coasttocoastAM.com.
		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
		And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
		But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Now, back to Massachusetts someplace and Claire Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Claire, are you there?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I hear you just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you in Boston?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I'm south of Boston, going out towards the Cape.
		I live right, well, actually overlooking the ocean.
		It's quite beautiful here.
		Little town called Hull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		I heard about you, Claire, and it provoked hours of conversation on this talk program, and I assume many others as well.
		If you can give us a little history, you received a transplant, but there must have been a lot that went before that for you.
		You began to get ill.
		How old are you now?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I'm in a few days I'll be 57.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		57, almost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		When did you begin to get ill?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I was diagnosed, well, my first symptoms were in 1982.
		I'm a dancer, and I found it difficult suddenly to be dancing as much as I had been, walking up small inclines, I guess, short of breath.
		And this went on and progressed for about a year until I finally went to the doctors and was diagnosed with something called PPH primary pulmonary hypertension, which turns out that is a rare lung disease which eventually causes the heart, the right side of the heart, to go into failure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And there's no known reason for it to come on, and there's no known cure for it.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		The only final hope is a heart and lungs transplant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pulmonary, say it again, PPH.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Primary, pulmonary hypertension.
		Primary because there's no known cause.
		Now, there are people who are getting PPH today because of the drug Fenfem.
		And some of them become quite ill very rapidly and need to get the transplants.
		But in my day, you know, this is new, the diet filled cause of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you must have had several significant discussions with your doctor, which must have been very difficult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, at some point your doctor must have said, this is terminal.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, as a matter of fact, that's the irony of it.
		When I was diagnosed and told that I had this PPH, I believed that it was just a minor condition because he told me I didn't need any heart surgery.
		I just needed some medication.
		And I thought, well, it couldn't be that serious.
unidentified		Sure.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't until almost a year later when I happened to see an article in the Parade magazine, on the cover of the Parade magazine of the Globe one Sunday, a picture of a woman, 47 years old, who had had the first heart and lungs transplant in the world.
		She was from Phoenix.
		Her name was Mary Galke, and I thought, my God, she was sitting in a wheelchair and she had written a book called I'll Take Tomorrow.
		And I thought, that's interesting.
		I wonder what was wrong with her.
		I opened and started to open the page that she was written about and started reading and just about fell off my chair because it said that she had a rare fatal progressive disease called primary pulmonary hypertension.
		And that's how I learned that I had a serious illness and, you know, there's something wrong with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the doctor didn't tell you that?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that when I went back with this information, confronted the doctor, I was told that he didn't want to be an alarmist, that the progression was different with each person.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And yes, well, my age in the whole would, if it came to that, would be the heart and lungs transplant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That's the moment that I took responsibility for myself and began to take charge of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you found out about this first in 1982.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What year are you now talking about?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		When I discovered that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when, yeah, that's right.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was about 1984.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of years later.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when I got that information.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I had already had it for a couple of years, and actually, the prognosis was not good that from the onset of it, you'd only have two to three years of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two to three years?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you would think it would be absolutely incumbent on any physician to tell you that so you could plan for your life.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		But I know that that's not what happened.
		And that's kind of the way it's been all through the course of my illness and then even about getting the transplant.
		And the big lesson I learned was really to take charge of one's own life and take responsibility, not leave it in the hands entirely of others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I take it over the years then it began to get progressively more serious.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		The disease, yeah, was going.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had a three-year respite because my brother-in-law, who had found, did some research in New York and found a drug for me called procardia, which is commonly used for hypertension, I finally persuaded the doctors to let me use that and found that that almost made my Life normal for about three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slowed it up.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the use of that drug, which then those three years gave me time to get things in order with my teenage daughter, figuring out what we would do in case I didn't make it through her high school years, where she would want to live.
		I was very honest with her.
		Brought in her father, my ex-husband, and a psycho-spiritual healer.
		We talked about things.
		I taught her about bank accounts and all kinds of things that she needed to know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About life.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And I did a lot of psycho-spiritual healing and a lot of holistic kinds of health.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would do the same thing.
		If faced with a fatal disease like cancer or anything else, I would try what the doctors had to offer.
		But then I think I would try any alternative method I could glom onto as well.
		So I can imagine why you did that.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That's what I did.
		And it was very helpful.
		I felt that if this was going to be the end part of my life rather than the middle part, I wanted to do it with a sense of equanimity and do it as best I could.
		And I became very spiritual.
		I did a lot of visualizing, meditation, prayer, readings.
		That's when I found Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's books, Stephen Levine, John Paulski.
		And I lived in the moment.
		I lived as best as I could every day that I had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did all of this then come to a crisis point for you?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, in 1988, I began to go downhill.
		And I knew that that drug at some point would lose its efficacy.
		And sure enough, it did.
		In 1988, I started slipping downhill.
		And I found out about a transplant program at Johns Hopkins in Maryland.
		And in February of 1988, I flew there.
		A friend came with me, and I was evaluated for a transplant, put on a list, and given a beeper, so was my daughter, so that if and when it came through, we would be flown immediately by helicopter to Johns Hopkins for the transplant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this, of course, is horrendously expensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were they doing this gratis somehow?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had good health insurance that covered 80% of it, but the other part was covered by the Mass Transplant Fund, which is taxpayer money, paid by taxpayer money, and it's an incredible fund.
		It helps transplant recipients and people getting ready for transplants, as it did for me.
		And it's one of the very few in the country that has a transplant fund.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So at this point you're on a list.
		You get a beeper and you wait.
		It's my understanding, and I guess it varies depending on the organs, but only a very relatively small percentage of people make it and get the organs.
		Many more, I think, die, don't they?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's usually a long wait.
		By this time, the few years that I had, I did a lot of networking and I found out a few people who were waiting for these kinds of transplants.
		And yes, a lot of them didn't make it.
		There's a big shortage of organ donators and there's a great need for them in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there is.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That's why I urge people to sign their cards, donor cards, and also to tell their family of their wishes.
		You know, I don't think we mentioned, but my whole story is chronicled in my book called A Change of Heart.
		And I've written it with William Novak and Write It to the Stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was a wonderful collaboration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A change of heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's generally available in bookstores.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		All the bookstores, yes.
		It's been out since May.
		I did a book tour of the United States and England and Ireland, and it's on tape also.
		And William Novak is the one who wrote Iacoca, Magic Johnson, Nancy Reagan story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some very, very profound issues raised by your case, and I want to know if I have got it straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Finally, I guess the beeper went off, the helicopter ride, and you got to go.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, actually, that's another incredible thing that happened.
		That didn't really happen that way.
		I never got called for the transplant in Johns Hopkins.
		I had heard that a young surgeon was coming from Stanford, California, to open up a center to do lung transplants in New England at Yale.
		They were never done in New England before.
		You always had to go out to Pittsburgh or Stanford or Johns Hopkins.
		I found out about him and I got down for an evaluation Memorial Day weekend of 1988.
		I was told, yes, I was sick enough.
		I was one of four candidates at the time.
		But they hadn't gotten official permission to do the transplants yet.
		I was told to go home.
		It might be a long wait, as I knew it could be.
		It could be a couple years.
		When they got official permission, they'd list me officially, and I'd be eventually put on a BPR system.
		Well, I went home that day.
		The next day, I was in my home telling my friend what had happened, and the phone rang, and it was the transplant coordinator I had seen the day before.
		And she said, Claire, we got official permission to do the transplant 17 hours ago.
		We listed you last night, and we have a donor for you today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And you have two hours to get back here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And that's how it happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you, how long, by the way, at that point, how sick were you and how long did you think that you had to go if you didn't get a transplant?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I was very ill.
		I was using oxygen.
		I was using wheelchairs.
		I could barely walk from my bedroom to the bathroom.
		I was housebound for a year.
		I didn't have much oxygen in me.
		I was blue.
		And yet, I just lived visualizing the day I would be healthy in the hole again and dancing, never knowing it or believing that that would really happen, but visualizing it.
		And I just kept going.
		I'm a good actress, and sometimes I faked breathing.
unidentified		I really did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes you faked breathing?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I faked breathing.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I just, you know, when I felt I couldn't go long, I would just keep on making that effort until something else happened, and sure enough, it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you had two hours to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far away was this from you?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		About almost three hours.
		And you know, we were there in two hours by car.
		They were going to fly me by helicopter, but it was a hot, humid day, and it was rainy, and they wouldn't have room for my daughter or my friend.
		And they said, well, alert the state police, and if you get someone to drive you down, we'll give you a little more time.
		And my friend called her husband.
		He was just about to leave the house, and he was over in minutes.
		My daughter and I got in the back seat with my oxygen tank and my meditation tape.
		And we went down Route 90 miles an hour.
		And at one point, my daughter tapped me and said, Ma, look out.
		And I saw the most beautiful rainbow come out from behind the clouds.
		And she and I just looked at each other, and we knew that it was our rainbow connection and that everything was going to be all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so that really put you in a very good mood going into it.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I felt calm.
		I felt peaceful.
		I felt like I had no idea that I'd be feeling this way, but I was at peace.
		I had done all my work on healing and forgiveness.
		There was really nothing more to say to any of my friends or family who gathered around me.
		And I felt sad for them in case I didn't make it.
		But I felt very strongly that I was in God's hands now and whatever would be would be.
		And I was ready to go with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you do a hard-nosed calculation of your own odds going into it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you think?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I knew that it was 50-50 odds whether I would live or die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		50-50.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that generally the kind of odds somebody would expect to get in that situation?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was told that to bring, when I was on the phone with the transplant coordinator, well, what to bring with me?
		She said, bring jogging shorts and sneakers and stuff like that.
		I laughed.
		She said, no, it's true.
		We'll get you up on an exercise bicycle right after the transplant.
		The difficult part will begin after the transplant.
		Most generally, they could get you through the transplant in most cases, but it was the days after that were really critical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long were you on the table?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Five and a half hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five and one-half hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so they had to open you up, remove two lungs.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They sawed me in half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They sawed with an electric saw, sawed my chest right down the middle, took out my heart and lungs, put me on a bypass machine.
		God knows where I was then.
		And this is all described in my book.
		When a transplant coordinator came back, she had gone to procure the organs with a team to Maine where the organs were coming from.
		She came back with the organs safely in the little cooler in her hand.
		And she came into the operating table.
		She'd seen me just the day before, well, hours before she had left.
		We talked, and there she saw for the first time in her life someone she knew laying on the operating table, chest open with an empty cavity in it.
		She said it was awesome.
		She couldn't believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to ask, during this whole time, five and a half hours, did you dream?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have any thoughts at all when you woke up from all of this?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No.
		While I was out, all that was going on, but I was really out.
		The only recognition I had of the subconscious things going on came out in dreams after, and even years after.
		It seems like around the anniversary of the transplant, each year I would have a very significant dream.
		In fact, a couple of years later, the dream was the sound, and it must have been the sound of the saw opening me up, because it was a wrenching sound.
		And I saw in the dream, I saw myself all in white, kind of lying horizontal with this white cover over me, and the whole bed and I were shaking.
		And I was telling someone who was looking at this scene that that was me being shocked back into life.
		And then I called the transfer coordinator and I said, did they use the paddles on me?
		And she said, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they did?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They did.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		See, I hadn't known until that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You asked the right question.
		I mean, you had no heart for a time.
		You had no lungs.
		You weren't breathing.
		You had no heart beating.
		Where were you?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		That's it.
		I don't know.
		Those were the only memories in my dreams were the significant...
		And then that was of the hearing of the sound of it.
		And when I first awakened from the transplant, all I was conscious of were voices, and they were all telling me different things, mostly calling my name.
		And the last thing I heard before I went under that I was told by the doctor was that the lungs especially are very fragile, and I had to know, he had to tell me that I may not get them, even though they opened me up.
		They wouldn't take out my heart and lungs until the heart and lungs were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that seems a reasonable precaution.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Right, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Claire, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour, and I can tell we're about to get to a very interesting point.
unidentified		My guess is Claire told me that I'm going to be able to do it.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Looking up our fate to go Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		The night's program originally aired July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Clara said she was a dancer.
unidentified		Anybody could be that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I thought this might work well.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Clara Sylvia.
		She has authored a book, co-authored, I guess, called A Change of Heart and Lungs.
unidentified		and will proceed with the interview in a moment Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
		And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
		But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back now to Claire Sylvia.
		Claire, one quick question.
		Did they tell you prior to your operation who was the donor?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely not.
		You're sworn to secrecy on both sides.
		You're not allowed to know who the donor is, and they're not allowed to know who the organs go to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the reasoning for that is what?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know, other than they really don't want to get into it.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They feel it's too much of an emotional trip, and it's fraught with too many problems that I think they really don't want to handle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had thought that was the case in a very ironclad rule.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It hasn't, but thank goodness it's been changing, and it's something that I've been an advocate for, for the change for all these years.
		And I see that it's not as ironclad anymore.
		And now there are many donor families who are meeting with the recipients.
		And if it's done well with a little bit of time and with a mediator, they've been doing it more and more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think it would be a positive thing rather than negative.
		I mean, here you've got somebody who has given you life meeting you and part of them or their lost one is now living within you.
		And so I would think it would be positive from all directions.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		But what do I have?
		Yeah, in my case and in most of the others that I've seen, it really is a positive thing.
		It's mixed with a lot of emotions and it can bring up some difficulties.
		I've experienced both sides of it with my donor family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you woke up from, and I will ask you about that, but you woke up from the operation.
		You heard only voices calling your name.
		No eyesight.
		Your eyes didn't open.
		You just began to hear voices.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the last words that were spoken to me were the very first words that I remembered.
		And those words from the doctor saying, you may not get the organs.
		Anything can happen.
		And when he had said that to me before I went under, I said, we'll go with it, Doc.
		It's in God's hands now.
		Do what you have to.
		And nobody was telling me, since I was the first one to have it done, have it done in New England, nobody was thinking to tell me, did I get them or not?
		They were just calling my name and trying to wake me up.
		And I had a tube in my throat and my hands tied down so I couldn't speak.
		And I motioned with my fingers to write, so they brought me paper and pencil.
		And I wrote down, did I get them?
		And then they realized and they said yes, and everything is fine.
		And then I slipped out of consciousness again for another day, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The trauma to your body from literally being sawed in half, I would think the body would go into some sort of shutdown, protective type shutdown for a while, and you would just have to sleep.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's what happens.
		And in fact, for me, as I describe it in the book, it's like kind of like it takes a while, like ice cubes melting, that you are in a kind of shock.
		And I think that is a godlike protective thing for you.
		I mean, because you don't feel many emotions at first.
		You don't cry or laugh, because I think that would be too traumatic to the stitches and all that's going on and the healing process that takes place.
		And that doesn't happen for several days after.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have been amazed, though, still for that instant when they told you, yes, you got them, it's all done.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that was a big sigh of relief, and then I slipped out of consciousness again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then a day later, you woke up?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I woke up, and I was hooked up to all the machines.
		By then, was all I could remember.
		I don't even remember having the respirator in me.
		The respirator was out.
		And the first few days, I was on a lot of morphine, and I was kind of in that.
		But I do remember the third day, they wheeled that stationary bicycle into my room, and they got me up on it.
unidentified		On the third day?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		On the third day, I walked over to it and got up and rode for 20 minutes.
		Maybe not 20 minutes, but a few minutes the first day.
		But I mean, that was incredible because for the last year of my life, I couldn't even walk to the bicycle, let alone get up and ride on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		So it must have been very joyful for you.
		I mean, you were doing things you have not done before.
		I would imagine your skin color was returning to its norm.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, immediately.
		My nails and my skin were pink again, and not that blue look that I had with a lack of oxygen.
		And yeah, I was doing quite well, but psychologically, I could not assimilate what happened to me.
		It was so traumatic, this ripping apart and then putting back together with someone else's organs.
		I mean, it's been a very long process, a lot of integrating needing to go on, a lot of help that I sought and found psychologically, a lot of dealing with my inner world, with the dreams that I've had, the nightmares.
		It's been years.
		And at first, even though physically I could do everything, my body was in the old mode.
		For instance, when I dropped the soap the first time in the shower, before, I couldn't even bend down to pick it up because I would go into such a strong angina attack, it would nearly kill me.
		And now the first time I dropped the soap after the transplant, the thought was, oh my God, I can't bend down to get that because such and so will happen.
		And I had to retrain my whole mind, my thinking that, well, no, you've got to try it.
		Maybe that won't happen now.
		And very slowly I would try it and find that I was okay.
		It didn't happen.
		And it was like that with every step of the way.
		It was like a baby, you know, learning to walk again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Realizing that you had abilities restored that you wouldn't even know about.
		Yeah, like a baby, I suppose, trying something for the first time again.
		well uh...
		now the remarkable part of your story is Let's see, two lungs and a heart.
		That probably represents about a third.
		And I'm just guessing.
		I'm not a doctor.
		I don't know.
		But it seems like about a third of everything that is in you, major organ-wise, at least.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a big massive tissue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you actually then began to have, the story goes, cravings of a young teenage boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were various things.
		The first thing that happened was in the OR room, not the OR room, the ICU, the intensive care.
		When the people from the press came in, I was the first one to have this done in New England, so it was the front page of the paper.
		It made the news all over, especially New England.
		And they asked me, now that I had this miracle, what did I want more than anything?
		And my reply was, I die for a beer right now.
		A beer, and I'm not a beer drinker.
		And that kind of took me by surprise that I had said it.
		I was a bit mortified that I answered a profound question with such a flip answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, where did that come from?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		And my thought was, well, maybe my donor was a beer drinker, but I thought, no, that's too radical, and I just let it go.
		But as time went by, more and more things began to happen like this.
		I started questioning things that were happening and asking the doctor, whose cells are these anyway?
		When you gave me such a huge amount of tissue from someone else, are they his cells?
		Do they take over?
		Do my cells take over?
		Nobody was answering these questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at that point, did you even know whether it was a male, female, or whatever?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I knew what was flipped to me after the surgery was that I had received the organs of a young man who had been killed, an 18-year-old had been killed in a motorcycle crash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		So I knew that much, but I didn't know anything else about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So you must, at this point, wanting beer, after that, you must have begun to question and self-examine your own feelings about things.
		And what did you start to come up with?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did that, especially with the Nightmares and the Dreams that began.
		I did a couple of things.
		I found a Jungian dream analyst whom I had heard about whom I began to work with Robbie Boznak.
		We began to working on the Nightmares and the Dreams, my inner life.
		And I also began to speak to other transplant recipients to see if anything like this was happening to them.
		And Robbie Boznak and I set up a little group which we studied intensively for a year.
		It was the beginning of our research program.
		And in the back of our book, we have a place to write and call into for ongoing research for other people who have any of this kind of phenomena going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what did you find?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		We found that, yes, other people were feeling who had the heart and heart and lung transplants, that they too were living with a presence of another.
		And that they were having different kinds of personality traits come through after their transplant, different fruit cravings that they couldn't liken to what they had liked before.
		And we've collected many, many anecdotes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think you were dreaming the dreams of another?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I think in part I was.
		I describe a dream in my book about going to another World, and it was my first cross-gender dream where I become a man in the dream, and I'm about to marry a young blonde woman.
		And I'm haunted by this blonde woman, not only in my dreams, but in my waking life.
		And it wasn't until a year ago, when I did research for the book, that I found out that Tim, my donor, was in love with a blonde woman that fit that description.
		But the strange part, it gets even stranger, was the way I found my donor family was through a dream six months after the transplant when I'm in a field with a young man and I know him well.
		He's my good friend and his name is Tim L. And I'm about to leave him.
		I go back to kiss him.
		We kiss and I inhale him into me and know that we'll be together forever.
		When I awakened from the dream, I felt for sure that this must be my donor.
		It felt like the deepest breath I had ever taken and it meant that I must have really integrated the heart lungs into me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You dreamed the name.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		The name was Tim L. I called the transplant coordinator and told her the dream, asked if his name could have been Tim L. There was a moment of silence and then she said, no, no, no, don't try to find out.
		You can't know this.
		So I let it go and it was about another six months.
		I was led again in another way to finally find the obituary of my donor and his name was Tim L. Wow.
		And then it was several months after that that I contacted the family and they wanted to meet me as much as I wanted to meet them.
		And we did and I've been in relationship with them ever since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then when you met the family, obviously you got to learn about Tim's life.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's when they corroborated all these things that were happening.
		I remember sitting in their living room that day and we were corroborating the different things and talking about the food preferences and so forth.
		And they said, well, you know, Timmy's favorite food was chicken nuggets.
		And when he died, they had to pull him out of his motorcycle jacket.
		He had just bought them.
		When they said that, I said, oh, my God.
		And they said, what's wrong?
		I said, well, I never told anyone this, and I just thought of it now.
		But the first thing I did when they gave me permission to drive myself was I found myself going to a Kentucky fried chicken place to get chicken nuggets.
unidentified		Really?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I think something I've never done before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
		All right, Claire, I have this question.
		Since all of that, at the beginning, which occurred, these cravings and all the rest of it occurred very close in after the operation, has it begun to fade, or are these things all still with you?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, it has faded.
		I don't dream as much about him.
		There's been a kind of resolution, a closure.
		I felt strongly that there needed to be resolution for the first few years, especially when I met with the family.
		And a series of things happened that I describe in my book.
		There was one very significant thing that I think was the final resolution in which Tim's spirit left me, and that was a few years ago.
		It was after I had a dream, which I called 22 bikes.
		In the dream, I'm revving up 22 motorcycles to have them driven around a town to commemorate something.
		When I awakened from the dream, I couldn't fathom what that meant.
		I thought about it for a while, and then I thought, well, had he lived, he would have been 22.
		It was right around the anniversary, which he would have been his 22nd birthday.
		And his passion in life was for riding a motorcycle.
		And I thought, well, that must mean I've got to ritualize this dream.
		Called a friend of mine who has a motorcycle.
		He's a dancer friend of mine, and he agreed to meet me one night in Boston.
		And he drove me, he did, he drove me around on the back of his bike from one dance to another.
		And as we went, I was really exhilarated riding the bike, and I knew it was for my heart.
		I felt the love of that.
		I was also frightened for the rest of me.
		But as we got from one dance to the other and the evening progressed, I became more and more sad, and I felt that something was changing, something was happening.
		It was only in retrospect of that moment that I realized that it was at that time that I was letting go of Tim's spirit and that he had taken me as far as he could on this journey.
		And he was free.
		That was the letting go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is your sense, or was your sense, Claire, that his spirit really was with you?
		In other words, I guess all our lives, it's a question we've been trying to answer is, what is the soul?
		What is the spirit?
		Are they separate?
		Is it one?
		Is it part of it?
		And was he really with you, or was it sort of an echo of his life that was with you?
		What would you say about that?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is very hard to describe, but I felt the essence of it being within me.
		I knew him intimately, like I have known nobody else.
		I knew his soul.
		I knew the best part of him.
		And I lived with that for a long time until, I think, that moment, until I let it go.
		So that parts of the old clear, the way I was like before, combined with this new spirit of what came in of Tim, I came into like a third entity and then came into my own again, this third new being when I felt his spirit leave.
		And all the time that he and parts of him were with me, the spiritual part, I was not lonely in the same way that I had been before.
		There was always him, this other presence, with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Tim's spirit, in total, was with you until that moment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, was earthbound until that moment?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I believe so, because it changed.
		It has felt very different since then.
		It's been for the first time after that that I've been able to get into a relationship, a long-lasting relationship.
		I've been about four years now with Jerry, who's my dance partner also.
		And it was in not up until that point I was really not able to get into a relationship with a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you were already in one.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and there was a sense of jealousy.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And nobody could really get close to me.
unidentified		Wow.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And that's all changed.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And now I've been in a relationship and it's been very different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um you know it might give you urging people to sign donor cards.
		It might give somebody pause and this is something we ought to talk on, I suppose, pause to think that if they did sign a donor card and their heart and lungs or other parts of their body went to give somebody else life, that their spirit might be within that person for a period of time and not free to go on.
		How would you address that?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a chapter in my book where some scientists are addressing these issues.
		There's talk about cellular memory.
		There's talk about energy fields.
		It's really very exciting that this is open now for discussion.
		And there's a woman called Julie Motts who's doing very exciting work.
		She's working right along in the OR room with the surgeons in New York, the Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, who are doing these transplants.
		And when the organs come in from the donors, before they are transferred into the recipients' bodies, she does healing, cleansing work with the organs, freeing the trauma from, the spirit from the organs so that they go in a clean way.
		And I believe this is what my processing through the years, that I actually did without knowing that I was doing it, that this was happening to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Claire, we're at the top of the hour.
		So relax.
		And when we come back, if you wouldn't mind taking a few calls.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Claire Sylvia is my guest.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from July
		Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		21st, 1997.
		Missy Orley Flurgie.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Claire Sylvia.
		She received the heart and lungs of an 18-year-old boy killed in a motorcycle accident.
		Following that, she began to assume much of his identity.
		If you have questions for Claire, it would be a good time to come now.
unidentified		you know the numbers the You've been hearing about the After Dark newsletter for years.
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		Writers from all over the United States pitch in with stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities.
		Plus, you'll find interviews with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more including information about each show that ran in the past month.
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		You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I'm concerned about the divide that's happening in this country right now.
		It's almost as if you cannot talk publicly about how you feel about an issue without getting stampeded by someone who doesn't agree with you.
		And you know what?
		That's dangerous in this country.
		The luxury of the United States has been our ability to be able to talk and explain and to take positions Without being attacked and ridiculed.
		And I've never seen it worse than it is today.
		And it's got to change because, you know, it's going to take us down the wrong path.
		I just want the truth.
		I want us to be able to go after an issue, whether it's the swine flu or health insurance.
		I just want the truth.
		And then from that point, we as Americans can make up our own minds.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Claire Sylvia near Boston.
		Claire, let me try this question out on you.
		Do you think that during the time that you felt the presence of this young man, Tim, that you were feeling an ongoing spirit or a sort of a cellular memory of what Tim was, of what his life was?
		Were you feeling an ongoing presence that had some sort of consciousness?
		I'm really not even sure how to approach this to ask it right.
		Or were you feeling a sort of a replay or a cellular recollection of what Tim was?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I think I really don't know, except I can say that it was a combination of all of those things.
		I believe that there is memory in all of our organs.
		And my questions about whose cells are they anyway, when you take such a massive amount of tissue as heart and lungs and you put it from one person to another, something's got to come over with it.
		You've got the DNA, you've got the cellular structure in it.
		It's a hologram.
		It's the makeup of the whole person.
		And that's got to come over.
		It's like putting one fluffy disk that you've programmed from one machine into another.
		It comes with what it was programmed into from the first machine that it was in.
		And it was just a transference.
		It just seems like that's what was happening.
		And then on a spiritual level, I was feeling the other intangible kind of thing, just feeling that presence and knowing somebody else's being was combining with mine within me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how would you describe the presence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, would you say of the presence that it almost had a consciousness to it, that it was transferring information to you, or that it...
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was memory, but it was as if it wasn't my memory.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was his memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And some of his dreams, too, I guess.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Dreams that were coming through me.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They were becoming my dreams, but they were really of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Again, your book is Change of Heart.
		A Change of Heart.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		A memoir co-authored by me, Claire Sylvia, and William Novak.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I hope you read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who is William Novak?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		William Novak wrote Ayacoca.
		He wrote Ollie Norris, Madame Mayflower, the Nancy Reagan story, Tip O'Neill, Magic Johnson.
		His fantasy was always to write for a non-celebrity who had a compelling story who was accessible to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a compelling story, all right.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and we live a town apart.
		So when we got together, we started writing almost every day, and it was a wonderful collaboration.
		We've become good friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did the operation take place?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		What date?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		May 29, 1988.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1988.
		One would presume or guess, 88, 98, it's been almost a decade.
		How are you doing?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm doing very well, thank you.
		I've had no rejection in all these years.
		I've been dancing.
		I'm doing ballroom dance now, competitions, performance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I travel all over the world.
		I conduct dream choreography workshops.
		I lecture.
		And now that the book is out, I did this book tour.
		So I'm very active.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's remarkable.
		So no rejection problems at all.
		I take it they probably pump you full of anti-rejection type drugs.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I still continue to take them.
		And eventually the long-term use of these has an effect on your other organs.
		In fact, this week I have to deal with a kidney biopsy because my numbers are a little high on the kidney function.
		And they're a concern, the doctors are, that the long-term use of cyclosporin is affecting them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they keep very close tabs on you still.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you really need to be in close check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But almost at this point, I guess, no matter what happens, you've been given the gift of a decade.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Every day has been a gift.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
unidentified		Claire, I was curious, since you're involved in the donation process, if you feel there should be a possible priority list for the people who go into the system with prior notarized donor cards, as opposed to people who go into this are against organ donations altogether, then all of a sudden they're in need of an organ replace on the list of everybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
unidentified		List for those people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you, Caller?
unidentified		I'm in Auburn, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, Claire, he's saying the people who have signed organ cards themselves, should they, in your view, get some sort of priority for organs should they need them versus somebody who has either never considered it or rejected it?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		If they've signed an organ donor card, no.
		I feel that someone who has, I was just on the LISA program, which will be airing soon.
		There was a young woman who donated an organ, she's a living donor, she donated a kidney to her brother who was in need, who would have died if he hadn't gotten it.
		And then eight months later, she needed a kidney of her own.
		And they wouldn't list her.
		Now, she has changed the law so that now if somebody donates, that they will be high up on the list.
		And if they are in need, that they will become able to have a donor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, Claire, how do they decide who gets priority?
		And there are, of course, a million stories going around about famous people or politicians or people with a lot of pull who go toward the head of the list.
		True or false?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know.
		I've heard both sides of it.
		It's a possibility.
		I wouldn't say that that really is true because I know that The matchup has to be the blood type, the tissue type, and the size of the organs.
		And you're high up on the list.
		The sicker you are, the higher up you are on the list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so that determines it.
		What about your status?
		In other words, your age, your viability for a transplant.
		In other words, somebody at 75 years old would not seem as viable as Canada.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that all factors into it also.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		There is a cutoff age of donating or receiving organs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Langley, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Claire, it's really a privilege to talk to you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've been working in the healing arts for about 20 years, and about 15 years, it just flashed on me that the question, and I want to elaborate in a second, but first of all, the question would be, it's not a question,
		but organ rejection, one of the reasons that the body would reject the organ would be caused by the different cellular memories of the organ and the person that was receiving it, and that there would be out of resonance with each other.
		So that there would be that conflict in it.
		And that maybe that's one of the reasons that families, like you're talking about the brother and sister, that there would be not only a tissue match, but also a match going back intergenerational because of the inherited cellular memories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but Claire's situation would seem to, I mean, how could you have more of a dissimilar situation?
		She was a lady in her 50s.
		He was a young fellow, 18, that rode motorcycles.
unidentified		She didn't fight his art.
		She accepted that.
		Okay?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And because I didn't fight it.
unidentified		You acknowledged his feelings.
unidentified		You embraced it and you didn't have a choice in it.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And that made the difference.
unidentified		See, the thing is, if you do body work, it releases the trauma and the memories in the cells, right?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Okay.
		And what would happen?
		Like, you've got the experience here, you can maybe help me out.
		If you have a tape, okay, I've got some old programs on, and you say I want to record the Art Bell Show, and I take an old tape, but some of the old program has led over.
		So I hear your program, but I hear a little bit of the interference off the old program because it didn't completely erase, and it kind of bleeds over a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
unidentified		The question I have, and please, I thank you for holding on, not cutting me off before now, but what would happen, Claire, do you think, if the same way that we erased a magnetic tape with kind of like a bulk-type eraser,
unidentified		like an alternating frequency which would basically erase the tape, if you would subject the organs to that kind of electromagnetic field to somehow try and erase the tape so that the tissue and the organs would become neutral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you listen carefully, Caller, she said that, in fact, there was a process, not electromagnetic, not a machine process, but a kind of cleansing that is done of organs to release a spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Am I right, Claire?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Julie Motz is doing that in the operating rooms with the surgeons now.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That very thing, not the electronic thing that you're talking about, but with healing techniques similar to the work that you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A spiritual thing.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in releasing the trauma that the organs have experienced from the moment, the impact of death, releasing that, before the organs are placed into the recipient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's another thing.
		If we talk about the spiritual world for a moment, and you talk to people who have researched ghosts and so forth and so on, frequently, spirits that appear to be trapped on earth are those of people who died tragically and quickly.
		In effect, they don't even know they're dead.
		I imagine this young man had probably a head trauma that killed him.
		He probably died instantly.
		And so, in effect, if we're to believe there is a spirit beyond, and I do, then he perhaps did not even know he was dead.
		That's right.
		So I'm not saying that you were haunted, but I'm saying that it is more likely in that sort of case, I would imagine, that there would be more of the spirit left.
		It must have been.
unidentified		Did it scare you at times?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was very frightening times.
		It was so many things.
		It was such a roller coaster at the beginning.
		I was very depressed.
		I was very confused.
		It's a whole identity crisis.
		It's like, who am I now?
		There was no medical history.
		That stopped me in my tracks, walking down the street one day, thinking when I came back home, I had to have my medical records sent from Yale to back up here to Mayor's General.
		And then I thought, well, wait a minute, what do I need those records for?
		I don't have a medical history.
		I don't have that old hole in my heart.
		I used to have a murmur in my old heart.
		And then I thought, well, wait a minute, I don't have that heart anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there ever a moment, Claire, after the operation when you thought you had done the wrong thing?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, not a second, no, not a regret at all.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't change one thing, and I talk about that in my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Yes, I'm in Glyde, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Do you have someone to make a comment about tonight?
		Go ahead.
		Well, I'm not sure.
		Are you recorded tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we're live.
		You're listening.
		You're on the air with Clarisylvia.
unidentified		Okay, great.
unidentified		Well, listen, I just wanted to say about the regeneration of those cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Well, I just don't believe that it carries on, that it passes from one person to another.
unidentified		I don't believe there's a memory involved there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right, so what do you say to somebody like that, Claire?
		He just flat doesn't believe you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many people out there like that, and that's fine.
		I say this is my story.
		I'm not trying to prove anything.
		And it's just my story, and this is how I'm telling it as it's happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you can either believe it or not.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I know of others that this has happened to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
		Where are you?
		In Sebring, Florida.
		Okay.
unidentified		Claire, welcome.
unidentified		I certainly hope that you do well with your transplant.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I experienced a kidney transplant 13 months ago.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations.
unidentified		And I had some of the same strange results, to be honest with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My donor was a little bit different.
unidentified		It was my sister-in-law.
		And I woke up having cravings for bananas and peanut butter, which she dearly loved.
		And I always thought that was kind of strange until I heard your story.
		Evidently there's something to it.
		You are on cyclosporin or FK now?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Cyclosporin.
		Oh, okay.
		Muran and prednisone.
unidentified		Yeah, they just changed me from neoral to FK.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I may go on to neoral soon or change because of my kidney problems that I'm having now.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I just having a rejection episode right now.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry, but they can get you over that very quickly.
unidentified		I think so.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		They said they could.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in the back of my book, there's the ongoing research, and we'd love to hear if you want to write in your story.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		We're collecting more stories like yours for our research project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That must be very important, serving as a collection point, because prior to this, Claire, there really wasn't much of a collection point for stories of people who have gone through this, was there?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		There's very little that's been done because we researched it when we started getting into this, and there was very little out there and the scientific where the doctors are not really interested in recording what's going on with the patients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		We're a part of history now.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		This is the first time that this has been done, and who knows if and how long this will continue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty good question, how the doctors reacted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it at certainly at some points you sat down and told the doctors what was going on, and did they just sort of not want to know about it?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		They said, oh, either, you know, you need help, you're crazy, it's the drugs, or you're having fantasies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were all told that.
		Stand by, Claire.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Typical huffups.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		21, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21, 1997.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Talk.
		The Night's program originally aired July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clarophobia is a woman in her 50s who received a heart lung transplant and immediately apparently had the cravings of a teenage boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is an absolutely fascinating story, and there are so many profound questions attendant to this.
unidentified		really profound Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you wonder where we're going with this kind of science, medical science?
		Are you a, I suppose you're a big booster of it.
		Some people are hesitant, and they think we're beginning to do things that we should not do.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I'm wondering that, too.
		I don't know.
		It's intriguing what's happening.
		It's exciting, but it's a little scary also.
		I have mixed feelings about cloning and use of animals, organs, in human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask about that.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know if that really is going to work because of my own experience and my own thought on it.
		I'm very excited about what's happening and the fact that scientists are studying now the things that I'm talking about and that the discussion is happening now.
		But some of the other things that are coming along, if they're misused, I think could be potentially dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, cloning is an obvious source of organs, but it's kind of a nightmare to contemplate.
		And so we have a very uncertain future with all of this.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia near Boston.
		Hi.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chicago, all right?
unidentified		Yes.
		Claire, I'm very interested to see what your comment will be on your experience seems to really dovetail what I'm studying in traditional Chinese medicine in regards to the human anatomy.
		The Chinese believe that the mind and the spirit are associated somewhat with five internal organ networks in the body.
		And looking up the heart and the lungs, the heart is associated with functions such as sleeping, thinking, memory, consciousness, mental activity.
		And the lung is associated with what the Chinese called the corporeal soul, which is that part of the soul which is always attached to the body and after death it goes down into the earth.
		It doesn't rise upward to any other, to a heaven or to some other plane of consciousness.
		And the lungs with the corporeal cell are associated with our capacity for sensation, for feeling, for hearing, and for sight.
		Wow.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you're telling us this.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		That's wonderful to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much.
		What range of memory, Claire, do you think that you derive from this young man?
		Was it a specific range of memory or only certain things?
		Or do you think that you had sort of a combined totality of memory?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was a combined totality, I would say.
		It encompassed so many things.
		I was also feeling his rhythm, living with his heart.
		We each have an individual heart rhythm, a beat, the way our heartbeat is different from one person to another.
		So it was getting used to his whole being became the rhythm of my life, which was totally different from anything I had ever known before, causing me to do different things.
		I mean, I talk about the trip I took to France a year after the surgery.
		I had no idea why I was traveling around France carrying on like a young boy, sitting in train stations with other youth going on hostels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and my middle-aged woman's body was fighting, trying to keep up with this youthful energy of my heart that seemed to be propelling me there throughout this trip.
		And I was wondering, why on earth am I doing this?
		And yet I couldn't stop.
		And then it wasn't until I met with a family over a year after that that I found that they were French-Canadian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you find it, would you describe it as exhilarating or confusing or both?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Both.
		It was like riding on the back of the motorcycle.
		It was exhilarating for my heart, and it was frightening for the rest of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
		Hi.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Hoyle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I've been listening to your show for about two weeks, and I really like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas, all right.
unidentified		And I had a question for Miss Sylvia.
		I was wondering what it feels like wondering if you're going to get the organ when you're on the list.
		And that just seems like it'd be too much to even contemplate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with a weak heart already, yeah, I see what you mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The tension of waiting.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was difficult.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It was very difficult, but I took it each day at a time and lived with a sense that I wasn't really waiting, that I lived the fullest that I could each day because I never really knew if it was going to come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Charleston, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		Claire, how you doing?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thanks.
unidentified		Well, listen, I'm sitting here waiting on the heart transplant myself.
		Oh, good luck to you.
		Well, thank you very much.
		Down in the medical university down here is going to do it for me.
		And I just don't know what to expect from it.
		And, you know, I had to disabled, had to quit my job and that sort of thing.
		How did you get through all that?
		You know, everything that you used to do is just gone.
		Gone.
		How do you get through it?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Income's gone.
unidentified		Everything's gone.
		I want to live off my wife's sour and that sort of thing like that.
		Right.
		Yeah, I became very spiritual.
		I did a lot of prayer.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I did a lot of meditation and visualization.
		I read books like Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Stephen Levine, Gerald Jampolsky.
		They were wonderful books that helped me get through that very difficult time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so is that the advice that you would give to somebody like that young man waiting?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Just do the best you can every day if you can learn to meditate, if you can find a psycho-spiritual healer to help you through it.
		Those are the kinds of things that I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of the fact that your organs, the organs you have were not rejected, do you attribute to the spiritual side of everything?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I think a lot.
		I believe in the mind-body effect.
		And I believe if you think positive thoughts, that these will come back to you as well as negative thoughts do.
		So as much positive energy as you could put into it, that's what I did a lot.
		I used a lot of the New Age literature also.
		And that helped me through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you don't reject that out of hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people would say you can't mix fire and water, and New Age and traditional religion are like mixing fire and water.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I mixed everything.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I used whatever I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And I still do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Clara Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please, and tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		I'm from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I have a question for the lady.
		All right.
		Actually, more like a comment.
		I was really impressed of her great being and her survival, really.
		It just happened that I found out about six months ago that one of my nephews who had gone through a transplant for his pancreas, his kidneys, his liver, had gone through almost to the verge of losing his toes because of the medication.
		And I thought, well, can she comment on it?
		Or is this because she's having something?
		I'm sorry, I'm really nervous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, she's going through actually a transition, I think, or about to, with medicine now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess that is the tough part of it, Claire, the medicine you have to continue to take after the transplant?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you do have to continue that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Forever?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, until they come up with something else, because there's a chance that you could reject it anytime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a hard question for you.
		You, of course, received human organs.
		But if you were in that same condition, the condition you were in prior to the transplant, and they had offered you the opportunity to have animal organs instead, and the alternative was obvious, what decision do you think you would have made?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It's very hard when I'm asked a question like that to answer what if, what I would have done, because I didn't know what I was going to do the way it was until the moment the call Came in, I made the split-second decision at that moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, in other words, you hadn't fully made up your mind.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, I had lived not knowing what I would really do until that moment.
		And I really can't say if I were I would think that probably if that were my only chance of survival, I might just go for it just the way I did if I knew that it's a possibility of prolonging my life just the way I did this last time.
		But I don't know.
		I never know what I'm going to do, what I'm going to be, what I'm going to say, given a certain situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fair answer, and I don't know what my answer would be either.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Terry, and I'm calling from Grand Junction, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm a first-time caller.
		And I had two quick questions.
		I was wondering if Claire could share some interesting things other people experienced from their transplants.
		And has anybody had an animal transplant that somehow they have some kind of animal reactions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First of all, Claire, others that you have now chronicled since you're beginning to collect stories.
		What have others experienced?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a man, a friend of mine who became a friend in our intensive group who had a heart transplant.
		And he's convinced that he's received the heart of someone sedentary, like a couch potato.
		He was very active before.
		He was a wonderful dancer.
		And he was an expert in throwing horseshoes.
		He used to wear a horseshoe ring.
		And after the transplant, he went back to throwing these horseshoes.
		And his arm and hand were going the opposite way that they had before.
		And he used to curse out his heart and say, you young kid, you've got to learn how to play.
		So he had to relearn and teach his heart how to dance again and how to play horseshoes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he did all that instead of becoming a couch potato?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there a lot of stories like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that possible?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, there are many.
		Dr. Paul Pearsall, we used one of his stories in our book.
		He's a scientist.
		He had a transplant of his own, and he studied the transplant community.
		He talks about a couple that were in a car having a fight.
		It was a rainy night.
		The windshield wipers were going quite strongly, and suddenly they couldn't see, and a car came right through the windshield and killed the man instantly.
		Some time later, after she donated all of her husband's organs, she felt she really wanted to meet the person who had received his heart.
		And Dr. Pearcell had set this up, and they got together, and he allowed her to place her hand on his chest so that she could feel her husband's heart beating within this man.
		And she was able to resolve what she needed to in terms of that last fight and telling him that she was sorry and everything was all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was afraid you were about to tell me they had a fight.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, she resolved it.
		And after that, the man who lived with the heart said, this is the first time since the transplant that I feel a lightness in my heart.
		And he said, but I have one question for you.
		I keep hearing this clicking noise going click, click, click.
		She said, that was the windshield vipers.
		And she was able to resolve.
		The other thing she said was, you know, now thank you for letting me do this.
		I feel that everything is copacetic.
		And he said, you know, I've been using that word since the transplant, and I didn't even know that word.
		I've never used that before.
		And she said, my husband always used to use that word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then obviously, for these reasons, you're becoming a big advocate of the transplant families and the recipient getting together.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I've always thought that that was a wonderful idea.
		It is a very healing process.
		It helps in the grieving process on both sides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the doctors explain their objections to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why do they say it shouldn't happen?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, the way it was explained when I did the Phil Donahue show and they brought on a transplant surgeon, he said there are so many emotional issues that both sides have to deal with without meeting each other that that just makes it more confusing and brings in more emotion.
		When he said that, the sisters of my heart who were on the program with us strongly disagreed and said, well, how would you know?
		For us, it was very healing because she brought back something of Timmy to us, and it's wonderful to see that something so great can happen from such a tragedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you met with many doctors that understand the spiritual side of it or even care?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		A few.
		Not many, but a few.
		And when I lectured in Mexico, I found that, and that's why I always have loved to go to Mexico.
		It's like a second home for me.
		The people are very spiritual there in general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are, you're right.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And the body of doctors, the cardiac people, the doctors who were doing transplants there were very spiritual and were asking life-death questions the way we're talking on this program now, not just the medical things that the doctors tend to ask about in this country and not just statistics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
		Hi.
		Good evening, Mr. Bettle.
		Good evening.
		Where are you?
		Austin, Texas.
		All right.
		Your guest, I forget her name, I'm sorry.
		Clara Sylvia.
		All right, Miss Sylvia.
unidentified		You said you had many dreams after you had the training.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call the wildcard lines, area 702-727-1295.
		Actually, in a lot of ways, that's an interesting question because an 18-year-old boy might have been a listener of Howard's.
		You never know.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I noticed you were talking about a psycho body healer.
		I don't remember the exact term you used.
		And I found out within the last year that I have a gift for healing through therapeutic touch.
		I was wondering if you had used that and if, you know, what the results were, how often you saw the healer, so on and so forth.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		No, I really haven't.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		While I was ill before the transplant, I worked with a a psycho-spiritual healer, but it was not hands-on.
unidentified		Well, therapeutic touch doesn't actually work with hands-on.
		It works with the energy field around the body.
		And it deals in healing a lot of times rather than curing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what would have been a very interesting experiment?
		Curlian photography is fascinating.
		And I wonder if a Curlian photograph of you prior to the transplant and after the transplant would have revealed something interesting, and I bet it would have.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's great.
unidentified		I wonder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the other with Claire Sylvia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir?
unidentified		Yeah, this is Bob calling from Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bob.
unidentified		Yeah, I just kind of wanted to offer a different slant on the subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, I was thinking, Claire.
		Yes.
		Yeah, I just wanted to say that you're a very strong woman and handling the matter very well.
		And I remember you saying that you said you wanted to drink beer, you know, when the press was talking.
		And then you said you took a ride on the motorcycle light to ritualize it.
		And I was thinking maybe this sort of thing could be incorporated into as a therapy for other transplant patients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		It's like a way of acknowledging it and then letting it go, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		yeah i wonder i wonder if in fact they did that clear uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		if the success rate Do you know what it is with heart-lung transplants?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, the last statistic I had, which was a few years ago, was that they've done 1,000 heart and lung transplants in the world, and only 50 of us are surviving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And some of the centers in the U.S. are closing down.
		They're not doing them at Yale or Johns Hopkins anymore.
		Not the heart and lungs.
		Because the success rate has been so minimal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you convinced that if the doctors would pay more attention to the spiritual side of it, along with the medical side of it, that the success rate would go way up?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think they need to pay more attention to it, yes.
		I don't know if the doctors can, but I think the tunnel vision is necessary for them to do the miracles and the work that they're doing in their field, that the other people with the spiritual and the imagination and what the things we're talking about needs to be addressed, but let that be addressed by different people.
		Just be open to it, not as closed-minded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Claire, we're at the end of an hour.
		I have one hour of show left, but I have you up in the middle of the night, and I suspect you need to get sleep.
		So, Claire, thank you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		It's been a wonderful time talking with you these two hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to find out if everything that I had heard about you is true, and it obviously is.
		You are a remarkable story.
		Claire, thank you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Claire Sylvia, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Heart and lungs both transplanted with incredible results.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was a very, very interesting two hours.
		And I must tell you, it makes me wonder a little bit about the efficacy of the whole idea.
		I don't know that I've come to any conclusions about it.
		In fact, in a lot of ways, I'm wondering more now about it than I was before I went into the interview.
		I mean, here is a lady who obviously has had her life extended by a decade with no end in sight.
		But the real questions are not answered, and that is, who are we?
		What are we?
		Are we a combination of all of our physical organs?
		And when that is transferred to somebody else, is that a right thing to do or a wrong thing to do?
		I don't know.
		And after that two-hour interview, I still don't know.
		But it sure was interesting.
		We'll go into open lines here.
		Listen, tomorrow night, Leonard Nimoy is going to be here, otherwise known to you perhaps as Mr. Spock.
		And I would like to collect questions from any of you between now and tomorrow.
		Now, there are two ways that you can pose questions.
		One is by facts, which I will give you now with a three-page limit.
		Send no more than three pages or I will never see it because it won't print.
		Or if you wish to email a question, My email address is artbell at aol.com.
		That's artbell at aol.com.
		And in this way, I'll be able to sift through and collect the very best of the questions for Leonard Nimoy.
unidentified		Ha!
		Thank you.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End All right, on my international line, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Senzen, China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Senzhen, China?
unidentified		Yes, it's just across the border from Hong Kong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed, it is.
		I was there one time, as a matter of fact.
		That's wonderful.
		What are you doing in the special economic area there?
unidentified		I'm going to be teaching English at the Shenzhen University.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a little bit of a delay, of course, because of the long-distance call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how long have you been there, and what do you think of it?
unidentified		I came to Hong Kong on June 25th to see the handover, and was there during all of the ceremonies and so forth.
unidentified		And I've been up in Senjen now for a week, and I've just started teaching there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's wonderful.
		Let me tell you what my impressions were when I was there.
		It was amazing to me to sit and watch the highway and to watch all of the trucks and all of the commerce going back and forth.
		I was shocked at the amount of commerce going back and forth.
		Have you also noticed that?
unidentified		In fact, I spent most of the afternoon today taping from my hotel window because I overlooked the border check.
unidentified		And I could watch the trucks going up over the hills in the new territories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And, of course, watching them come back.
		And they're simply, it's like a train almost.
		They're so close to each other, and it's just continual.
		It never stops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I came back from China, I was very chastened.
		I was almost afraid because I realized what China is going to be.
		And I think most Americans have no idea, unless they've been over there, what the world is facing as far as China's growth is concerned.
		Eventually, they will probably lead the world.
		Would you agree with that?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		In fact, the little town of Senjin, which I first started coming to about 10 years ago, was simply a railroad station and railroad tracks and a few huts and a few buildings.
		And before that, it was primarily duck farm.
		And now it is one of the largest cities spreading all the way from the river to the west and over to the eastern side.
		And it's one tall building after another.
		And there must be right now, I would guess, 20 to 30 high-rise buildings, 100-story buildings that are going up simultaneously.
		There's cranes on every roof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely unbelievable.
		And most Americans just can't imagine it until they see it, and they should see it.
		Let me ask you this.
		What are you hearing about the reversion of Hong Kong?
		How are things going in Hong Kong?
		Do you have any idea?
unidentified		They're having some problems.
		Basically, the handover went very, very smoothly.
		I think all of us, in fact, I think in a way the press media, the 8,000 press people who were credentialed to come to Hong Kong were a little disappointed because they thought there was going to be a little bit more to it.
		And really, in a way, it was kind of whole-hum.
		A lot of them actually split and went to Cambodia two or three days before the handover because there was so little action and things were going so smoothly.
		Right now, their biggest problem seems to be in the immigration of the children that have been spawned literally in China that want now to come over and live with their fathers in Hong Kong.
		According to the basic law, which is the law that has been adapted for the new special administrative region, the children are given rights if one of the family members, one of the parents, is from Hong Kong.
		However, there are so many of them because the fathers have been a little on the promiscuous side here in China, and there's thousands of them, which would really be a very difficult thing for Hong Kong to adapt to very quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm surprised you went over to just look and to observe the handover and you've ended up up in the other special economic zone going to work to teach English.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you come to make that decision?
unidentified		Art, I'm a travel agent, and I've been coming to Hong Kong with groups three, four times a year for about the last ten years.
unidentified		I'm from Sacramento, if I might put a plug-in for my town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you may.
unidentified		And so a lot of the people who have come here have returned with me, and we go to Bangkok and Singapore and so forth.
		And I have a very close friend who lives in Senjin, and I've been coming over here for the last few years.
		And since they are now in such a hurry to learn English, because sitting right on the Hong Kong border, this whole entire area of Hong Kong and Senjin will be the threshold to China.
		It will be the threshold into Beijing and to Shanghai and to Guilin.
		Literally, it's the window of China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was there, beginning at the border checkpoint, you say you can overlook that and see it from where you are?
unidentified		Well, the truck checkpoint.
		Now, if you came on the train, the Kowloon-Canton railway, then you come in a little bit further to the west.
		But I'm directly overlooking the truck route on the highway that cuts over the new territories.
		Did you come by train or did you come in?
		no?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I came by train.
unidentified		If you came by train, then you would have come in about a mile west of where I'm sitting right now, where the trains come in.
unidentified		I'm talking right now about the 18-wheelers that are nose to nose and toes to toes going across the New Territory Road, and I have direct access to that right now, and I've been taping it almost all afternoon, and I was so surprised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had the feeling when I was in China and I went further on up, that I was being watched all the time.
		And I wonder if you've had any of that feeling, or maybe you've settled down a little more and you don't feel that.
		What do you think?
unidentified		The only feeling that I have is because I happen to be a redhead, and I'm very light-complexed.
		And that is the reason I'm watched by all the people.
		It gets a matter of curiosity.
		I feel absolutely no threat as far as government or I don't feel that I'm being watched by any government people or anything of that kind.
		No, I feel perfectly safe here.
		I have no problem with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're quite right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as you go further in, and I presume you have been from time to time, you can go to towns where they have not seen Westerners, and they are so curious, people will literally come rushing out of shops and stores just to stare at you.
unidentified		Yes, in fact, if you really want to start a commotion, what you do is you take your camera out and you open it up and take a cartridge of film out of it.
		And by the time you have gotten another cartridge back in there, you probably have a dozen people standing around watching every move that you're making.
		They're tremendously curious about Westerners, about our culture, about our skin color, about our hair color.
		I've even had people on the street come up and touch my hair.
		And when I go to the beauty shop, all they do is just stand there and shake their heads because they're not used to the fineness of the Western hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long do you plan to stay?
unidentified		I'm going to stay probably a month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About a month.
		That's wonderful.
		And then it's back.
unidentified		I'll be back.
unidentified		I have a chance possibly of teaching full-time, and I'm taking it under consideration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be quite a lifestyle change.
unidentified		Yes, it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope you will stay in touch.
		Listen, I've got a question for you.
		Do you have a computer or are you able to get on the Internet from that economic zone?
unidentified		I will have.
		This friend that I told you who lives here in Shenzhen, that's a very good friend, is making arrangements today, in fact, to get onto Internet.
		The Internet has taken over in China like you cannot believe, even though it's extremely expensive because you have to pay for calls on the telephone and everything that you use through a modem.
		But even the expense is something that they're all going in for, and the proliferation of computers here is just beyond comprehension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can believe it because I have something here called iPhone, which allows you not only to talk to somebody, for example, in China, but to see them as well.
		It's a remarkable new technology, and you might want to look into it.
		I'd be glad to help you out with it if I can, but I'm talking to people in China all the time that way.
		And I would recommend you look into it.
		It's called iPhone.
unidentified		iPhone.
unidentified		I certainly will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, listen, will you call me again?
unidentified		I've been trying for about the last two weeks to call you, and I was getting a busy signal all the time, and I'm about ready to go out right now, and I was so surprised to get a hold of you.
unidentified		That was marvelous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is marvelous.
		It's presently about 2.24 in the morning here on the west coast of America.
		What time is it, and what day there?
unidentified		It is Tuesday, and it's 5.21 p.m.
unidentified		It's late in the afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call us again, will you please?
unidentified		I certainly will.
		One more thing.
		My name is Betty Story.
		And as I said, I'm from Sacramento, and I'd like to say hello to my family.
		I haven't seen them for so long.
		I think they've forgotten what I look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Betty, I let your last name go out, which I normally don't do, but we are, of course, aired in Sacramento, and I imagine your family is either hearing you or will hear about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		From the Special Economic Zone in China.
		Well, well, well.
		How interesting.
		Hear what you said about the trucks?
		I'd like to get a copy of that videotape.
		Actually, I've got my own.
		It is the most shocking thing you've ever seen in your whole life.
		The amount of commerce coming across the border is not to be believed until you see it.
		Anyway, if you are outside the country someplace or another, we do have a toll-free international line, and the way you utilize it is to call the AT ⁇ T operator.
		Actually, there are two ways.
		You can get the country code, the AT ⁇ T country code for whatever country you're in.
		Dial that.
		Or failing that, just get the AT ⁇ T operator and have her call 800-893-0903.
		That's 800-893-0903, and we will pay for the call on this end, even all the way from China.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Eric in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Eric.
unidentified		Just got your book this weekend, and I've read about half of it so far, and it's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a fast study.
unidentified		Well, that's unusual for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a good book.
unidentified		Just a couple of things.
		I listen to your show a lot.
		The night that you had UFO spotted over in the Medford area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Just a thought when I was just looking at a map while I was listening to you.
unidentified		The first town south of there, I believe, is Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South of Medford, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean Phoenix City, Oregon?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm aware of that.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I just thought that was interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
unidentified		And in Georgia.
		Did you not have a confirmed sighting there as well?
		LaGrange, was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a matter of fact.
		And then I got a message from the LaGrange MUFON guy who said, we didn't know anything about it.
		And he gave me a fax number.
		And I said, I'd be glad to send you all I've got on it.
		And I tried to, and his fax number was no answer, non-operative during the hours he said it was there.
		But let me read this to you.
		Dear Art, I heard about the LaGrange UFO on your show, but I thought it had been declared to be a hoax.
		Then I received this week's copy of UFO Roundup, a weekly email publication, and lo and behold, V-shaped UFO appears over LaGrange, Georgia.
		Last weekend, at the same time white UFOs were flying over Arizona, radio station WGST in Georgia reported a UFO being seen over the last few nights over LaGrange.
		Morning DJ Ian Ponette, is that correct, P-O-N-N-E-T, reportedly interviewed the captain of the LaGrange PD about the incidents.
		The UFO was seen to hover, quote, for an extended period of time, end quote, on the night of Sunday, July 13th, 1997.
		The object appeared to hover at an altitude of approximately 10,000 feet or 3,030 meters.
		It was substantial in size and had the same characteristics, V-shaped plus lights, of the UFOs recently sighted in Phoenix.
		It was reportedly seen by thousands of people.
		On June 24th, pilot Jerry T encountered unusual phenomena while flying over LaGrange.
		He reported while flying VFR, visual flight rules, at 5,000 feet in clear air under a perfectly smooth, heavy overcast layer at 8,000.
		I saw what appeared to be five holes in the clouds about five miles east of LaGrange.
		The holes were perfectly round and approximately 300 yards, 900 feet, or 270 meters in size.
		Below, each cloud was a residue of cloud that was very thin and transparent.
		It appeared to me that something punched downward, creating the holes and pushing some of the cloud vapor with it.
		Jerry ruled out air turbulence, pointing out that, quote, turbulence, depending on altitude, would cause the clouds to mix, erasing the hole.
		These openings remained intact for more than half an hour.
		So there you are.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Deborah from Prescott, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Deborah.
unidentified		Hey, I just started listening to your show a few months ago when I was in and out of the hospital for kidney failure.
		Oh, my.
		This last guest you had was really great.
		I'm sorry that you didn't get to talk with her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to be thoughtful for some time on how I feel about the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, even after interviewing her, and she's been alive a decade when she would not have been otherwise, there are some pretty profound questions that come from that.
unidentified		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good and close to your phone for us.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		You know, I had a comment about that and also a question for you about it.
		The comment is I'm a diabetic that is now on dialysis, and I'm hoping to get a double transplant, a pancreas and a kidney.
		The problem is, they consider that an experimental procedure, although it's been around for over 10 years, and they won't be able to.
		They suggested to me that I have about $20,000 to $40,000 worth of bake sales and yard sales and raise the money on my own.
		And I was thinking what you would think about something like that, since it seemed like it would benefit the medical insurances to go ahead and do the double transplant now, which would save them money in the long run, because if I continue to be diabetic, I would just, you know, wear out another kidney.
		And I'm thinking quite a lot of sense.
		And, you know, the amount of money that diabetes in general eats up in medical bills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Must be a tremendous amount.
unidentified		Oh, incredible.
		You know, it just kind of gnaws away at you bit by bit.
		You know, this is the first major, major thing I've had to deal with, but I can look forward to more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you the hard question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were given an opportunity to have a transplant from an animal as opposed to a human, what would your response be?
unidentified		You know, boy, that would be incredibly difficult because I'm having a hard enough time with a human donor.
unidentified		You know, getting past all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but if they said, sorry, no human donors available, but we do have this experimental animal transplant organ for you, would you go for it, do you think?
unidentified		You know, I think it'd have to be really down to the wire.
		At this point, no.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if it were down to the wire?
unidentified		If it were down to the wire, I think I'd seriously consider it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's called opting for life.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		And, you know, I'm going to be thinking about this interview with Clara Sylvia for some time.
		It really does provoke a lot of very profound questions about what we're doing and whether it's right or not.
		Anyway, we're going to break here at the bottom of the hour.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Summer in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
		Lead me this way.
		I can't lie.
		I can't say my life without your love.
		Oh, baby, don't leave me this way.
		Oh, baby.
		Oh, baby.
		You're listening to ArcBell Somewhere in Time on Freeer Radio Networks tonight on your presentation of Coast of Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got about a half hour to go.
unidentified		We still have time, we might still get by.
		Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
		The bombs and the bill, and the kids keep coming.
		And when it may be easy, it's time to be young.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning from the High Desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		now we take you back to the night of july 21st 1997 on art bell somewhere in time There are a couple of the most amazing crop circles you've ever seen in your whole life on my website right now.
		We've got exclusive use of these images from England, a special deal with the crop circle connector.
		And they got us these very quickly.
		And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, if you can make your way to a computer, you've got to see these.
		And I want you to contemplate, as you look at them, several things.
		One, what you think they might mean.
		Two, whether you consider it even remotely possible that a human being could have done these.
		And I would like your input.
		I just got a fax from Ron in Birmingham, Alabama.
		And Ron is contemplating the Bajin wind-up radio.
		And he's wondering when they're going to come out with a wind-up fax machine.
		And that leads to all kinds of questions.
		What about a wind-up TV?
		Or a wind-up computer.
		Or a wind-up light.
		Ah, they are coming out with that.
		Soon, a wind-up flashlight.
		I probably wasn't supposed to tell you that, but it's coming.
		And one can imagine wind-up, well, how about a wind-up microwave oven?
		Now, that'd be handy out there in the boondocks, wouldn't it?
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hi.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we've got a lag here or something.
		Yeah, I'm happy to reach you.
		I want to tell you I really enjoyed Danielle last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And Claire tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very interesting.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she's a gem.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And I can see why she did so well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so can I, but, you know, how about you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, are you satisfied in your own mind that doing that is a good idea?
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure I am.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		I believe it is.
		I wanted to make a comment.
		You said something to the effect that you felt this was all strictly spiritual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not all.
		I said, you know, she quoted the very sorry statistics, the number of operations and the number of successes.
		And what I said is, if they were to pay more attention to the spiritual side, that they would have a much higher success rate.
		And I think that's probably true.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And that ties in with the ad that you're doing on your station, too.
		But I'm referencing an earlier comment, much earlier in the interview, when I said that you said something that you attributed to spiritual.
		But I wanted to bring up electromagnetic energy fields that the healers are using.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
claire sylvia ▲ ● ▼		And I think that science has a long way to go yet on really fully understanding that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're referring, thank you, to the hard sciences.
		In other words, electromagnetics.
		That's in the, even though it's not widely understood, it would come under the category of the hard sciences.
		And I certainly agree with you.
		We have a long way to go.
		I also believe that if we are to continue in this mode of transplanting major organs from one person to another, that we need to begin addressing the spiritual side of it.
		And I think the outcome would be a lot more positive.
		But even having said that, I'm still not sure.
		I'm not sure it's right.
		I'm just not sure.
		That's a terrible place to be in, to be unsure.
		On the other hand, I suppose if I were on my deathbed, given the opportunity to have more life, I'd go for it.
		That's probably an honest answer.
		I think I would, anyway.
		Now, faced with the option of an animal organ, I'm not as sure.
		And a lot of people who have called are not.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Charles from Maine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Charles, from Maine.
unidentified		How you doing?
		I'm doing.
		I may have encountered a psychic the other day or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may have encountered a psychic.
unidentified		Yeah, see, I was walking along the street and I met this girl and I was talking to her for a few minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And she said, right out of the blue, she said, Art Bell is cool.
		And I said, yeah, Art Bell rules.
		And she said, no, you don't understand.
		Art Bell is cool.
		And I said, yeah, like I said, yeah, I know.
		And she said, I want you to say Art Bell is cool.
		And I said, Art Bell is cool.
		And she said, okay, who is Art Bell?
		And I said, well, Art Bell's more famous than Elvis.
		And she wouldn't say anything more about it.
		And I have no idea how she knew I listened to Art Bell or anything.
		I never met her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what I'd do if I were you?
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got a window there, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd check and be sure that nobody's looking in.
unidentified		Yeah, it's on the second floor.
unidentified		And I get some shades, but I do have a fan normally in the window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very small movement from where you've already been with this young lady to the next stage.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is when she'll start bringing you meals and gifts.
unidentified		And maybe some absolutely fresh flowers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something like that.
		That's right.
		Anything could happen now.
		And as I said, I would check your window.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		I'm 16 years old.
		I heard your show last night, the replay of Daniel.
		That was a really, really good show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
unidentified		About the whole animal thing, taking, you know, parts from animals and putting them into people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		I feel strongly against that just because I don't think it's right to take the life of an animal over that.
unidentified		You know, I'm a vegetarian myself, and I don't think it's right just because of my religious kind of beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would refuse it?
unidentified		Yeah, I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On your deathbed.
unidentified		On my deathbed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish I could grow you old so you were about 60 and see if I would get the same answer.
unidentified		Yeah, you never know, but the way I feel right now, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you doing up at what is it, about quarter to five there?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, it's right around there.
		We had a storm out here, and my clock's out.
		It must be about five, yeah.
		I'm listening to you.
		That's what I do every night about this time of work in the nights at Kroger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I appreciate it.
unidentified		Yeah, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And thank you very much for the call from Tennessee.
		Early in the morning in Tennessee.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified		Well, good morning, I'm a picture to talk with you today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, last Friday, I saw a most interesting show.
unidentified		There's, let's see, on the NBC Network, a show called Friday Night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And a lady interviewing one of the shuttle astronauts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they're on site taping a shuttle takeoff.
		And now the most fascinating sight about the shuttle takeoff was in the background, up in the sky, as a craft entered the atmosphere, was a group of three white objects up behind the shuttle.
		And was it something in their lens maybe?
		No, the shuttle passed right in front of these three circular objects and came right out underneath it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they comment?
unidentified		No comment on it.
unidentified		I don't even think they noticed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's an awful lot going on when there's a launch, and cameras are subject to all kinds of blooming and weird things that go on with that kind of light intensity.
unidentified		You would think so, but as a shadow passed right in front of those three objects up in the sky, and it comes right out the other side.
		It wasn't something in the lens.
		There was a group of three objects, circular objects, up behind it.
		Now, the color of it was white, similar to what the moon would look like in a blue sky.
		I just found that most interesting.
		I was hoping you could find out more about it, maybe get a clip of it, and have Richard Hoagland look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll see what I can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
		Thank you very much.
		Again, though, there are all kinds of anomalies you get when you subject a video camera to very, very intense light.
		But, sounds interesting.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, Art.
		Yes.
		I'm calling from East of the Rockies.
		My name is Matt.
		I'm calling from Madison, Wisconsin.
		Okay.
		I have a comment about the first thing that, or your last guess rather, about the rejection that she's experiencing now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not exactly rejection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's experiencing some side effects from the rejection drug she's taking.
unidentified		Okay, well, I was just going to say that if it actually was rejection, that with the organs of a teenage male, she'll get over it and it'll be fine eventually.
		Secondly, the woman who spoke about her medical problems just a second ago, I had an aunt who had breast cancer, and the doctors at the University of Minnesota told her that her best treatment option was an autologous bone marrow transplant, which at that time was experimental right and her insurance company which i
		Yeah, they wouldn't go along with it.
		And she fought it in court, and she won.
		So maybe that woman should just look at those options with her insurance company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good advice.
unidentified		It was local court.
		And also, the area that I'm from, I've heard about your book, The Quickening, and it's interesting to hear someone with environmental concerns on a talk show specifically.
		The area in which I'm from is southwest Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can people, you know, people without environmental concerns are the ones I don't understand.
		If you look at our air, you look at our water, you look at the changing weather patterns, you look at the UV situation, which is very well documented.
		If you don't have environmental concerns, I don't know about you.
unidentified		I don't know either.
		I mean, you know what?
		If what we're really doing on Mars is trying to colonize it, it's not right.
		We should preserve this planet.
		But the thing that hurts me most about the area that I'm from is that it's a very agricultural area.
		And nowadays, there are large companies coming in and taking over the hog industry.
		And they're building huge containment houses to house these hogs in when they give them antibiotics and steroids.
		And a worker cannot even enter those pens without a special suit and showering before and after leaving.
		And these things break.
		And you may have heard the stories about the manure leaking into various streams and killing hundreds of thousands of fish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have heard about it, yes.
unidentified		You know, it's just, you know.
unidentified		I haven't read the quickening yet, and I plan to when it comes out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be in bookstores generally late August, thank you, or early September, and I do recommend it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello, hello, hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Austin, Texas.
unidentified		This is Carrie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm just calling because I'm listening to you on the radio, and it's sounding different on the radio than it sounds on the telephone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why people have to turn their radios off.
unidentified		You're right.
		I was looking for their headphones.
		Anyway, I'm a kidney pancreas transplant patient, and I just got home from having some corrective surgery done this week, and was intending on turning you on about a half an hour ago, and I missed it up until about the last 10 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		We interviewed Clara Sylvia for two hours.
		She was a recipient of two lungs and a heart.
unidentified		It's absolutely amazing.
		I tell you, I have been a diabetic since I was a child, and it was my diabetes that took my kidneys.
		And I worked for a major electronics corporation and had a real hard time getting the insurance to clear giving me a kidney and a pancreas both.
		I really had to fight it long and hard.
		And finally, just the log jam broke free.
		And two years ago, I went in and got both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		I just turned 40.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		40.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you must have been a prime candidate at that age.
unidentified		Yeah, and I was really lucky.
		I had a really easy blood type.
		I got a match in a year.
		But just this last week, I met a gentleman who has been on a waiting list for five years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mind.
unidentified		Had a difficult blood.
		And you understand it's not just the blood type that you have to match.
		There's a lot of different sublevels that you have to match as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So you don't just get typo and typo and you're okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you noticed any unusual results since the transplant?
unidentified		I have not, although I have spoken with a lot of people, obviously going to clinic.
unidentified		When you're in recovery, you have to stay close to the physicians and the surgeons for quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And being in clinic, I have talked to a lot of different people in the waiting room.
		And people who have had heart transplants, oddly enough, are the ones that come up with the unusual craving.
		So, for example, if I never craved radishes before, I might start craving radishes.
		And there's this theory among the transplant patients, and I've never found it documented anywhere, that you take on the cravings of the donor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, yes.
		That's exactly what happened to Claire.
		As a matter of fact, it went beyond that.
		She dreamed the name of her donor.
unidentified		Ah, so I did miss an incredible show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		And it kind of stops me a little bit.
		In other words, I understand that these organs save lives.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess I'm a little unsure about whether or not it's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you wouldn't have any such reservation.
unidentified		Well, sure, I do.
		Sure, I do.
		And I was raised in a very conservative Christian home.
		It brought a totally different meaning to me about having someone die for you.
		You understand what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I could have had a living donor give me a kidney, but in order to resolve my diabetes, I had to have a cadaveric donor, which meant someone had to die.
		And that's something that you really wrestle with because you don't ever want to be in a position, whether you're sitting on a dialysis machine or you're sitting on a heart machine, that you're wishing that someone would die.
		That's a very difficult position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I never thought about that.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that is, that's kind of what it comes Down to, isn't it?
unidentified		That you're wishing for the organ, therefore you're wishing someone would die.
		And in reality, and this is the part we have to come to grips with, people do die.
		People do die.
		You're going to die, Art, so am I. It's the one thing we don't escape, is we will die.
		And if I had not been born a diabetic, if I had been healthy and my organs were available, I would rather have them provide life for someone else.
		I met twins this past year, no, they weren't twins, they were brothers anyway, this past year, and one of them had received a kidney from the same donor that gave the liver to Mickey Mantle.
		That donor provided eyes, lungs, heart.
		There were so many people that were saved by that one donor's death.
		And it was a decision that that donor made before he died that my organs can go to help people's lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the hard question then for you too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it had really come down to it and there had not been a human organ available but had been an animal organ available, what do you think you would have done?
unidentified		I think I would have to have a little more of a track record.
		I think I'm a little uneasy.
		I don't think that I would be 100% against it if there was more of a track record, if there was more information.
		Now, on the other hand, depending upon how critical my situation was, I might actually say, okay, hey, go ahead.
		Use me as a test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's worth a try, huh?
unidentified		It's worth a try, because really, what do I have to lose?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That depends on how you think about all of this.
		In other words, you might have something to lose.
		I just don't know.
		Interviewing this woman, I wish you had heard the whole thing.
unidentified		I do too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's really put me into deep thought about the efficacy of the whole idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess it's okay, and I guess I would do it, but I'm just not convinced absolutely it's the right thing.
unidentified		Well, something else that I really wanted to say, too.
unidentified		You've had a couple of callers in the last few minutes talking about the spiritual connection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And you are dead on the money.
		You are dead on the money.
		I don't know if you've ever heard, or I'm sure you have, heard or read anything by Dr. Bernie Siegel.
		I am an avid follower and fan of Bernie Siegel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he basically says what?
unidentified		Well, he's been a real pioneer in the field of cancer.
		But he is one of the leaders in the realm of the mind-body connection.
		That whenever we decided to separate the mind from the body, we really made a mistake in how we were treating people.
		And that the mind and the body and the spirit, especially, that you've got to have all of that connected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds to me like the most successful transplants are the ones that have taken that into account.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		And it's been proven over and over and over and over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I surely appreciate your call.
		My program is coming to a dead end here.
		I've got to abide by the clock.
		So you're going to get the honors.
unidentified		Unbelievable.
		Yes, from Austin, Texas to the rest of the universe.
		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		Thank you very much.
		Tomorrow night, folks, Leonard Nimoy at the beginning of the program.
		It's going to be a very, will continue to be a very interesting week.

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