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July 21, 1997 - Art Bell

02:54:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Claire Sylvia - Organ Transplant

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	Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from July 21st, 1997.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be.
	And welcome to another edition, another week, in fact, of Coast to Coast AM, live talk radio, while the others sit up there and regurgitate, repeat, recycle, Endlessly looping again and again.
	We are here live from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains.
	Out west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands.
	Soon Puerto Rico.
	South into South America.
	North to the pole and worldwide on the old internet.
	This is Close to Close to AM.
	And I'm Art Bell.
	And for the first couple of hours we're going to be in open lines.
	At midnight tonight, we're going to go all the way back to Boston.
	And this was not an easy interview to get, but it's one that I've wanted to do for a long time.
	I wonder how many of you out there know the name Claire Sylvia.
	Claire Sylvia is a very, very interesting woman, who, and I can't recall the show, whether it was Dateline or 2020 or, you know, you get them all confused after a while, but They did a big segment on her.
	She was the recipient of the heart and lungs of a teenage boy.
	She is in her fifties.
	And as I understand the story, and there's nothing like getting it from the lips of the recipient, Clara Sylvia immediately acquired the cravings of this teenage boy.
	Now, again, I could be wrong and we'll find out for sure, but It is also my understanding that heart-lung transplants, or organ transplants in general, are done anonymously.
	In other words, you don't know who gave them to you.
	She dreamt the name of her donor.
	She dreamt the name of her donor.
	Now you think about that a little bit, because I sure am.
	And we'll find out if that is true.
	She is going through some rejection problems right now.
	And so I really had to do some talking to get her up at three o'clock back near Boston, but up she will be.
	I think her story is important.
	And I think that it is important that we understand what she has been through, and it might help us to understand whether we would go through it under similar circumstances.
	It might help us to understand the nature of the soul.
	It might help us to understand a lot of things.
	So I have Claire Sylvia lined up for the midnight hour.
	Tomorrow night, at the beginning of the show, ten o'clock, Leonard Nimoy, Otherwise known to many or most of you as Mr. Spock from Star Trek will be here.
	Oh, you know me, I'm a big Trekkie.
	I'm a big Trekkie.
	And he's doing some new things, and we'll talk about that.
	Now, let me see, which night did I get this set for?
	Thursday night, Friday morning.
	Jim Keith will be here, and he has written a book called Casebook uh... the real story of the men in black and that should be fascinating as you know there's a movie out called the men in black i've not yet seen it but uh... jim is going to give you the serious side of the men in black and so uh... i know a lot of you will look forward to that and there are a couple of other things that i cannot talk about
	Yet, that I'm working on this week.
	So that's kind of what's going on.
	I just wanted to give you a sneak peek ahead at what's coming this week.
	It should be very, very interesting.
	The hunt for Kununen continues.
	We're told now that he may be dressing up as a woman.
	That is going to make finding him very difficult.
	Very, very difficult.
	And I don't envy the police the job of trying to determine.
	One would presume he's probably pretty good at it, too.
	Dressing as a woman... Yikes!
	The news on Mirror is that the repairs will await a new crew.
	And they always say things like, well, the new crew will be fresher, you know, and they'll be more ready to Proceed.
	What it really means is there's something seriously askew with this crew.
	And you've always got to read in between the headlines.
	And listen very carefully to what they say, and more importantly, what they don't say.
	So I'm still very, very concerned and thinking very hard about this whole mere business.
	It may interest you to know that on the 20th, that's right, on the 20th, the scientists at NASA lost contact at the Jet Propulsion Lab, actually, in Pasadena, lost contact with the Sojourner.
	And for quite a while, we didn't have contact.
	They had a carrier, but no real contact.
	So I guess it's over there, um, parked up against Scooby-Doo.
	But it was eerie that on the 20th of all dates, and for a long period, they lost, uh, and I believe today they claim they got contact back.
	Very, very strange, indeed.
	For the first time in its 77-year history, the Miss America pageant is going to give its contestants an option to participate in the swimsuit competition or not.
	In other words, they'll be able to say, no, I'd rather not do that.
	No thongs or bikinis will be allowed.
	I said to the director, it's not supposed to be Sexual or sexy, and it's not going to be.
	It's not?
	Sure could have fooled me.
	What's wrong with having the swimsuit contest be sexy?
	I mean, what's the whole point of the swimsuit thing in the first place?
	I guess it's not politically correct to say that, huh?
	In Washington politics, the one interesting thing that has gone on is the coup d'etat.
	I really only thought they had coup d'etats in small banana republics, but Congressman Bill Paxson and company were apparently, or it is alleged, they were planning, in effect, a coup d'etat to get rid of Newt Gingrich.
	Newt caught wind of it, gave Bill Paxson the evil eye, which Paxson described as, well I looked in his eyes and it was clear to me that he had lost confidence in Paxson resigned from his leadership position, and the coup is squished, mushed over.
	At any rate, that's what they're calling it, a coup.
	And that's about the most interesting thing going on in politics in America right now.
	It's not very interesting, actually.
	And I've said this for some time, and I'll say it again right now.
	Politics, it seems to me, is less and less relevant to the daily lives or needs or thoughts of the American people, whether or not Newt Gingrich is ejected.
	That's, you know, that's the big fight.
	Frankly, that's not going to change my life one way or the other.
	How about yours?
	I saw a little teaser for a program I didn't see Which was on, I think, Dateline.
	And it was about natural born killers.
	There apparently is a new study done by MRI, which has shown that 60% of killers have a specific brain abnormality.
	Now, isn't that interesting?
	Six out of ten have a specific brain abnormal condition which an MRI can detect.
	Now, this could mean many things.
	For example, suppose you went in for one reason or another and got an MRI and they detected this same malady in you.
	Does that mean that you should be watched?
	Does that mean you would be watched?
	Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child.
	Suppose they detect this abnormality in a child prior to birth.
	It really got me thinking.
	Natural born killers.
	Something that can actually be diagnosed Why MRI?
	Extremely interesting, huh?
	We'll get to open lines in a moment.
	The Beijing... Oh!
	There is one more thing.
	Actually, two more things.
	If you'll go up to my website right now, you will see two of the most incredible crop circles I have ever seen in my whole life.
	One clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
	And I wish to make... They're both from England, by the way.
	One from Wiltshire, and I'm not sure of the origin of the other.
	I want to make an observation about these crop circles.
	If these were done by Doug and Dave, or any other human being, something I do not believe, They could not be as perfect as they are.
	I mean, these are so intricate, so perfect, so beautiful, that I refuse to believe, and I mean, I refuse to believe that a human being has done these.
	I suggest you go up there quickly and take a look.
	They are, well, let me put it this way, and I really mean it, they will take your breath away.
	And I would like to get your comments on them.
	We have cut a deal with the people at the Crop Circle Connector.
	The Crop Circle Connector, that's a site in Britain.
	And we are now the exclusive, I repeat, the exclusive outlet for these photographs in the United States.
	And for that, I want to thank them.
	We had a bit of a struggle and came to a very satisfactory conclusion.
	And as I mentioned, we are now the exclusive outlet for these photographs.
	You're going to be seeing a lot of them.
	And this season's crop circles, folks, are absolutely astounding.
	I mean, they are astounding.
	As I try to say, they will absolutely take your breath away.
	So, take a look at my site.
	Go take a look at these crop circles.
	You'll see it under the new news items.
	And we could talk a little bit, if you wish, about crop circles.
	After you see these, I would love to have you come up here and try to make an argument to me that these have been done by human beings.
	I don't think so.
	If you're already a Streamlink member, you know what a super value our subscriber service is.
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	That's automatic downloads of coast-to-coast shows directly onto your computer desktop or MP3 player.
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	to a whole library of Art Bell classics somewhere in time shows available as streamed broadcasts.
	Plus, our fun live chat sessions held twice a month. There's never been a better time to join
	Streamlink. Visit CostaCoastAM.com today to sign up on our secure servers. Now we take you back to
	the night of July 21st, 1997 on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	All right, also a message here from Skip Frombach, and it says a team of seven researchers,
	now this is Bigfoot related, a team of seven researchers while investigating the site of
	my encounter of July 15th, 1989, Dreamland number so and so, Adamon discovered hair samples which
	match the very description I gave in a report to Peter Byrne of the Bigfoot Research Project.
	These samples have been forwarded to labs in Canada.
	Dr. Henner Ferenbach of the Oregon Regional Primate Research Center and can also be made available to additional research labs for DNA analysis.
	Please pass this information to your listeners.
	So maybe, just maybe, we've got some hair from Bigfoot.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, this is Art, Bob?
	Yes, it is.
	Yeah, Art, this is Mike from Fresno, California.
	Hello, Mike.
	That would be KFRE territory.
	Yes, it is.
	And listen, I'd like to go over some things, some definitions in which defined communication You know, we have our internet system with satellites floating around our atmosphere here, and I guess it was Alan Shepard, he was the first one to break the brim of our atmosphere, and then it was John Glenn that broke the brim of our atmosphere and went around it a couple times.
	Theological terms or biblical terms, when you're communicating, you're standing on a rock.
	A small rock would be a stone.
	The brimstone.
	And, you know, could our telecommunications satellites be confirmed as the brimstone?
	Is that a possibility?
	I have it on my consideration table.
	I put it on yours.
	Well, uh, I'll go along with you for a moment here.
	Mm-hmm.
	Imagine this.
	Mm-hmm.
	Imagine a gigantic flare on the sun.
	Yeah.
	I mean a monster.
	Right.
	They've been known to do what?
	Knock out satellites, right?
	Exactly.
	So what do we have now?
	We've got fire and brimstone.
	Right.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call, and I enjoyed that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Hello.
	Would have been?
	Wild card line?
	You're on the air?
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	How are you doing?
	I am fine.
	Art, you know, I've been thinking about it.
	This is Tony KXNT Country over here in Las Vegas.
	Las Vegas.
	And I've been thinking about it.
	That triangle that Francis Barwood, you had on, talked about in Phoenix, Arizona?
	Well, just Francis Barwood.
	Well, yeah.
	Everybody.
	Yeah.
	Everybody, virtually.
	Here, let me get a breath of fresh air here.
	Ah, that feels good.
	She and everybody else that saw that UFO, it just came to mind to me that there are many accounts of mile-wide, triangular, chevron-shaped UFOs, one of which was in Hudson Valley, New York, and appeared over several different parameters of time throughout the mid-80s.
	And it was reported to be the same width and virtual size of the Phoenix Triangle, as well as the Belgium Triangle.
	Do you remember about those?
	Yes, and the one I saw, Tony.
	Don't forget that one.
	So, where are we going?
	There are triangles, yes.
	Yes, and I just thought that was kind of funny, and I brought up on Michael Reagan's show the triangle in Phoenix, and that three and a half months later, they talked about it on ABC, NBC, CBS, and you know, I couldn't believe it.
	Michael Reagan being who he is and an information source, that he had never heard of this UFO sighting, nor did he hear about Francis Barwood, which I couldn't believe.
	I mean, you'd think he'd know who a city councilwoman was.
	Well, not necessarily in Phoenix.
	Thank you, Tony.
	Not necessarily in Phoenix, but that he would not have heard of the Phoenix sightings.
	Now, that is fairly remarkable because that was a subject of considerable fodder for the major media.
	He mentioned ABC, CBS, NBC, but MSNBC, CNN, on and on and on, just about every news outlet that I know of, Synchronistically reported on it at the same time, so he should have caught at least that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Well, my friend Art Bell, talking about the crop circles.
	Fritz!
	Keep us reporting, we need the information.
	Have you seen the new ones yet, Fritz?
	No, no, no, I have not.
	But, an alert here, we have a special coming out Monday night, the 28th.
	Time zone could be California time, 8 o'clock, here in Phoenix at 7 o'clock.
	A Fox Network UFO, do you believe?
	Something like that.
	The best evidence caught on tape.
	So they will show a tremendous amount of footage and UFOs on the Fox Network.
	Is that only in Phoenix?
	Nationwide.
	Oh, nationwide?
	Yes.
	So you have it.
	Look on your television guide page.
	Something 101.
	You'll see the big advertising.
	I just want to let everybody know.
	All right.
	Thank you, Fritz.
	And also go up there and check out these new crop circles.
	I mean, they are astounding.
	They really are astounding.
	One of them clearly would seem to be the Star of David.
	You guys tell me.
	They're on my website right now.
	Keith just got them up as we acquired exclusive rights to the crop circle connector Three latest from the crop circle connector exclusively here in the U.S.
	on my website at www.artbell.com.
	I mean, really, take a look at those and let me know what you think.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Costa Costa AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Thank you.
	Oh, right.
	Oh, right.
	That Sunday day When you first came my way?
	I said no one can take your place.
	And if you get hurt, if you get hurt...
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Once again, I'd like to urge you to go up and take a look at those crop circles.
	There's no way in God's green earth that any human being did those.
	There's just no way.
	Take a good look.
	They're intricate, they're amazing, they're beautiful, and they're big.
	Here's the first reaction.
	Hi Art, just took a look at the new crop circles on your website and all I can say is Totally cool.
	Doug and Dave couldn't make crop circles like that if their life depended on it.
	And I agree with that.
	There's no way.
	There's no way that human beings... Now, I'm not saying that extraterrestrials are doing it.
	But I'm saying Doug and Dave sure aren't.
	You've been hearing about the After Dark newsletter for years.
	It was started by Art Bell back in 1995, and it's still going strong 13 years later.
	Ever wonder what's in it?
	Call right now to subscribe.
	It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month, just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
	Writers from all over the United States pitch in with stories about the supernatural, strange science, humanodities, plus refined interviews.
	with frequent guests, my monthly column, and much more, including information about each
	show that ran in the past month.
	Give it a try by calling toll-free 1-888-727-5505.
	That's 1-888-727-5505.
	The lines are open right now, even in the middle of the night.
	Or sign up online at www.coasttocoastam.com.
	Click through the orange type to that secure server.
	That's coasttocoastam.com or 1-888-727-5505.
	or 1-888-727-5505.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	It's Kelly from Los Angeles.
	Hello, Kelly.
	A couple quickies.
	First of all, I heard Doug of the famous crowd circle Dave and Doug team died.
	Well, that would certainly eliminate him, more or less.
	Yeah.
	Now, here's something that I've been trying to get out.
	It's kind of interesting.
	I was looking through a Buzz Aldrin's book.
	I believe it was called Back to Earth.
	Yes.
	And he was talking about a party that Apollo 10 and 11 Uh, principals were having, and they had a really big laugh, watching a film of Fred Hayes climbing up the lunar lander and, uh, stumbling as it crumbled beneath his feet and falling onto the moon.
	Now, what's interesting is that Fred Hayes, there's no record of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon, and NASA has no record, public record, of Fred Hayes ever being on the moon.
	Oh, well, the answer to that is simple.
	What's that?
	Well, uh, they did it when they filmed Capricorn 1.
	No, it opens up a lot of stuff for speculation.
	I think they were there, but I kind of found that quite amusing.
	Look, the way things go today, I promise you, and I'm afraid to say this because I'll get a million of them now, But they could put together a very convincing shot of an astronaut that we know, Aldrin, whoever, on the moon with another spacesuit nearby, and you'd be able to just make out through the faceplate that it was Art Bell.
	I guarantee.
	Well, this was actually from 19, in the early 70s, after After the mission, Apollo 10 didn't have time to have a post-mission party.
	So this is certainly not current technology.
	This was quite some time ago.
	I know, but what I'm trying to point out is you can add anything to anything.
	Believe me.
	And you can do it so that the truth simply cannot be discerned.
	You know the alien autopsy?
	Some wild person out there managed to morph me into the alien autopsy.
	And I get serious questions about it all the time.
	They've got a young art bell with a microphone, a ham microphone in his hand, sitting next to this poor creature being autopsied.
	And it looks as real as real can be.
	But it's not.
	It's simply a very talented person.
	And so that's a... it's a lesson well learned.
	And believe me, they could put me in a space suit And, uh, put me on Mars faster than you can say, um, a corral draw.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, all right.
	This is Vince in Chicago.
	Hello, Vince.
	Yeah, you know that, uh, when you had the reverse speech of, uh, Colonel Haynes, uh, on the case closed, uh, Roswell?
	That's poor Colonel Haynes.
	Yeah, poor Colonel Haynes.
	I was, uh, I was quite interested when they asked Colonel Haynes about the Groon-Laker Area 51 area.
	Yes.
	Some of his reversals there were really kind of telling.
	He talked about Lucifer being there and something about... I remember the program, yes.
	Yeah, and they're going to give you a mark and you will be slaves.
	It's like the Antichrist in Revelations.
	And it kind of got me to thinking, did you ever recall Richard Hoagland ever explaining the number 666?
	No, I think that's one number he's not publicly tackled.
	I'm just wondering if the number 666, how this plays in with the sacred geometry or the hyperdimensional physics, if it has any place in some of the things that Richard Hoagland talks about.
	Well, I don't know about Richard, but you should ask me about that number.
	What do you know about that?
	Well, I part my hair a certain way, and it's for a reason.
	What do you think that reason might be?
	Maybe you're losing part of some of your hair?
	No, no, no, no, no.
	No, my hair is very prolific, but I part it in a certain way because I'm covering up Oh, you got the mark of the beast on your forehead.
	Some numbers, yeah.
	I always, when I was a child, I tried to tell myself it was 999.
	I mean, it depends, you know, how you look at it, right?
	Yeah, I was just wondering about that number, though.
	You know, I just kind of thought that maybe somehow that number plays into all the aliens.
	Oh yeah, it's not a random number.
	There's no question about it.
	It's not a random number.
	It has very specific meaning for a lot of people.
	You know, speaking of numbers, Art, I'm going to throw a couple of data points at you.
	Data points?
	Yes.
	March 13th, when we had the lights over Phoenix, that was the night that Old Navy Stores had their advertising blitz, where they ran a commercial that said, and the winner is, magic comes back.
	And that was the date Of that week on the 1-800 line that Old Navy Stores has?
	Yes.
	Richard Holman talked about this.
	That week they had Scottish plaid t-shirts $19.50 on sale for $16.
	Why is it you feel compelled to replay my own programs to me?
	I remember this.
	I did a program.
	Well, I've been calling that number ever since and this week they have that number again. $19.50.
	They have short-sleeved men's shirts on sale for $15, regularly $19.50, and that's that number that Richard Hoagland talks about.
	This has meaning.
	I'm wondering if it does.
	Those shirts are on sale, by the way, until July 24th.
	You probably work for them.
	This is an ad, right?
	You never know.
	Goodbye, sir.
	I'll bet he does.
	That sounded just like an ad to me, didn't it to you?
	Here, watch.
	I'll part my hair for the camera, so all of you with your cameras out there... I always thought, you know, Mama told me it was 999, but it's... Well, it depends on how you look at it.
	The other way around, it's 666, right?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Go on, east of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	Hello.
	KRN 920 in Little Rock, Arkansas.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got a guest I want to suggest for you.
	Oh, you want to suggest a guest?
	Yes, Dr. Michael Kaufman.
	All right.
	Former employer of Champion Lumber Company, and also wrote the Saviors of the Earth.
	He can prove to you that the Earth is not warm, but it is actually decreasing temperature 0.3335 degrees.
	and contact Chuck Carter and get a hold of him, Chuck's at him now.
	And he's giving us this Al Gore biosphere program we've got going, UN.
	And I think you'd appreciate the counterbalance to some of these best case weirdos we've been having on.
	Although I love it, Art. I enjoy your program.
	Well, why is it weirder to say it's warming up than it is to say it's cooling down?
	Well NASA's got the facts.
	Maybe the answer is, it's doing neither.
	In other words, if you take the guys who are saying it's cooling down, and the guys who are saying it's warming up, and you average it, what do you get?
	Well, what you get is what we got.
	Think about it.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	I'm calling from Sheboygan, Wisconsin.
	Sheboygan, alright.
	First off, I'd like to apologize for a caller from La Crosse you had the other day.
	I'm just complaining about some of the advertising you do.
	I love your show.
	It's not representative of our state.
	Oh, that's all right.
	People can complain about anything they want.
	I don't care.
	All right.
	I was wondering if you had any follow-up information as to...
	I can't remember if it was a caller or a guest who was speaking about the 65,000 feet altitude
	limit that was imposed by the government.
	There was a law that civilians could not launch something beyond that.
	Is that confirmed?
	No.
	No?
	No, absolutely not.
	Oh.
	Alright.
	Alright?
	Okay.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	No, I have absolutely not confirmed.
	That is just something somebody said.
	Of course, by the time it is retold and then retold, it gets to be Inscribed in stone.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi.
	My name's Michael and I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
	Yes, Michael.
	And I'd like to suggest possibly a future topic for your show.
	Like what?
	Well, I haven't heard anything about this yet on your show or anywhere in the press.
	I was wondering if you're aware that last month a European satellite called SOHO discovered that the planet Venus has a commentary tail.
	No, I did not know that.
	Well, the only reason I'm aware of that is because up here in Portland, there was a conference on the theories of Immanuel Velikovsky and planetary violence in human history.
	And apparently, there's electrical interaction now going on between Venus and the planet Earth.
	And there's this tail which stretches 45 million kilometers from the orbit of Venus all the way to Earth.
	And within this tail, there are actually these rope-like structures which are called Birkeland currents, which is proof, I believe, of electrical activity occurring between the two planets.
	Because if this was just smoke blowing in the wind, then that much structure would not be able to be maintained over millions of miles.
	Smoke blowing in what wind?
	No, no, I think... Space?
	Correct, yes.
	But I haven't heard any explanation from NASA about this because this was not
	something that they expected.
	But I don't know if you're familiar with the work of Immanuel Velikovsky.
	I am, yes, to some degree, yes.
	Yes, but his two key tenets were that, number one, which got him in the most trouble,
	were that the planet Venus once was a comet that had a near collision with the planet Earth,
	and also that...
	Well, I don't... I think by definition a comet is something that is not in a fixed orbit around a sun.
	Venus is.
	So that makes it squarely a planet, I think.
	And a comet, or would you say they are defined by their size?
	Something is the size of a meteorite or a comet, or comets generally are associated or said to be dirty snowballs with a high water content.
	And then there's something the size of a planet.
	On our international line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, hi.
	This is Henry from Bullhead City.
	Oh, where?
	Bullhead City, Arizona.
	Okay, you're on a wrong line, sir.
	You're going to have to give us a shout on another line, so I don't know how you got mixed up into that line.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi, Art.
	This is Caleb, Las Vegas.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, if you remember me, I was the one who used my CB Handle Eagle 17.
	Vaguely. Remember? Well, I was the one who asked you if you had a radio station in New York City. I mean, your radio...
	City? You're getting cut off there, partner. Yeah, I'm sorry. That was call waiting. That was, um,
	about a radio show. You got your radio show in New York City? Have you got the...
	Are you in New York now with WABC or...?
	Not yet.
	We've been on WABC.
	It is little-known twice already.
	And we are talking to WABC.
	So, when it happens on a permanent basis, you'll be the first to know.
	Okay, because there's... I have a friend, my friend John, CB Handles Eagle One.
	He lives in Oakdale, New York, and there's a station owned by CBC, W-A-L-K, right down the road in Patchogue, New York.
	You might want to call them up.
	To see if your show could be aired, because there's a lot of stations on Long Island.
	Okay, there are two Chancellor Broadcastings.
	Yeah, there are two.
	And that may not be our Chancellor.
	In fact, I can tell you it is not.
	Okay, well, anyway, what I wanted to ask you is, when you have David John Oates on... I talked to him earlier today.
	Okay, yeah, when you have him on, here's some questions I'd like to ask, if you get a chance.
	On the reverse speech, what kind of findings do you have if someone is under hypnosis, claiming to be abducted by aliens?
	Someone who is schizophrenic, who claims to be Napoleon or Einstein?
	And someone who has drugs or alcohol?
	Yeah, I really like the schizophrenic question best of all, and I plan to ask David that.
	If somebody is schizophrenic, that would mean that they believe themselves, right, what they are saying.
	Whacked out as it may be, they absolutely believe it.
	And so then, would you find congruence in the reversals?
	I would like to know that myself.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Art.
	You've got the professor here.
	Well, hello.
	How are you this evening?
	Spiffy.
	Well, look, there's some things I wanted to talk to you about.
	I know we're up against the clock and we don't have much time.
	Um, crop circles.
	Why can't they be made by our saucer craft, by our engineers engineering it for a certain purpose?
	I don't know if you've noticed, but there's a crop circle that has the tree of life.
	Oh yes.
	Which happens to be the religion of the Kabbalah.
	The way to immortality is the Kabbalah.
	It's absolutely possible.
	I had a guest on last night, Dr. Brian O'Leary Astronaut, who said that indeed, these may be I don't want to say figments of our imagination, but figments of our id.
	In other words, we may actually be doing it with our own mind.
	I suggest something else.
	I suggest we're being forced into a religion.
	And let me tell you, there was the first crop circle this year.
	You can go look at the crop circle connector, check it out.
	Of course, now you have access to it, an outlet for it.
	It was six sixes, like a saw blade.
	Six sixes.
	I tell you, Art, you've heard me talk about the evil entity.
	And Dr. Malachi, I mean Malachi Martin, I want to correct something he said.
	There is no profile for those that could be possessed.
	I've had two very interesting attacks by demons, in which they tried to grab me, and they did grab me.
	The only thing I could move was my head.
	And I invoked the name of Jesus Christ and quickly dispatched them.
	One of them... How do we know that's true though?
	How do we know that you are not at this very moment possessed, feeding us disinformation?
	Because of my fruits.
	Because of the things I do.
	Listen, I do want to say hey to everybody in the chat rooms.
	I'll be there in just a moment, by the way.
	Alright, well you go in there and you prove to them you're not possessed.
	No, hey Art, one more thing.
	I suggest everybody, what chat room is it?
	It's, I like your chit chat, all of them, on your, you know, the blue room.
	You're talking, you're on my website.
	Yeah, do you ever go in there?
	Um, I was in there last week, yeah.
	Uh, what is your name you use, Art?
	Art Bell.
	Y'all get out of here.
	Are you for real?
	What would you expect me to use?
	Okay, I look forward to seeing you there.
	Art Bell happens to be my real name.
	I look forward to seeing you in there, Art.
	One more thing, though, about the demons that are attacking people right now.
	Malachi Martin said they can possess anyone, not anyone that's saved by Jesus Christ.
	Alright, I want to prove something to you now.
	Okay.
	What is your name in the chatroom?
	Professor Alien Storm.
	That's too long.
	That's what it is.
	P.A.S.
	Oh, I see.
	P.A.S., huh?
	Okay.
	All right.
	I want you to go in there, and I want everybody in that chat room to demand that you prove that you are not perfectly possessed.
	All right?
	They do that all the time anyway.
	Well, I want them to demand that of you, and I want to know how it comes out.
	All right?
	Be there in a minute.
	All right.
	I mean, really put him to the test, folks.
	Demand that he have proof positive I mean, here he claims that these devils grabbed him twice, but he was quicker on the draw than they were, used the name of Jesus Christ, and warded them off.
	Well, how do we know?
	I suggest you make him prove that.
	Lester the Rock, he's here on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	It's been a while since I last talked to you.
	I was the one that sent in a tape to you of Willie Nelson.
	And another interview of Dr. David Viscott, or the late Dr. David Viscott, talking with the professor from Temple.
	Yes.
	I haven't heard you mention any of it yet.
	No, I have not yet.
	But it does kind of fit in with everything you've been doing lately.
	The professor, as a matter of fact, had talked about alien abductions and implants and things kind of having to do with aliens entering through windows Taking people out of the house?
	Well, they don't have to enter through windows.
	They float through walls and doors and windows and they just float through as though they weren't even there.
	They don't knock.
	They don't go through.
	They just float through.
	That's the way it is.
	I'm telling you right now, check out my website for the new crop circle photos.
	You have never seen anything like them in your life.
	Running and returning to the secret places that I've been As I said earlier, they'll take your breath away
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July
	21st, 1997 Take my breath away
	Take my breath away Coming Soon
	Coming Soon I see trees of green, red roses too
	you I see them bloom for me and you.
	And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
	I see skies of blue and clouds of white.
	The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
	And I think to myself...
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	My guest in a moment is going to be a lady named Claire Sylvia.
	Claire is back somewhere near Boston.
	And there was a 2020 piece done on Claire, who received the heart and lungs of a young boy.
	And I'm going to kind of let her tell it in her own way, and we're going to explore it.
	I never did see the piece, I heard it, And as you know, we did a whole program on the subject.
	Maybe you don't know, but what you're about to hear is absolutely remarkable.
	So we'll get to that in a moment.
	The After Dark newsletter was started by Art Bell back in 1995 and it's still
	going strong thirteen years later.
	Call right now to subscribe.
	It's $39.95 for one year and contains a variety of different subjects every month just like we do here on Coast to Coast AM.
	There are stories about the supernatural, strange science, human oddities, plus you'll find interviews with frequent guests.
	My monthly column and much more.
	Call 1-888-727-5505 or go online at CostaCoastAM.com.
	Here's what you missed on Costa Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
	And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
	But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Now back to Massachusetts someplace and Claire Sylvia.
	Claire, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, I hear you just fine.
	Are you in Boston?
	I'm south of Boston, going out towards the Cape.
	I live right, well actually overlooking the ocean.
	It's quite beautiful here.
	A little town called Hull.
	Oh, okay.
	I heard about you, Claire, and it provoked hours of conversation on this talk program, and I assume many others as well.
	If you can, give us a little history.
	You received a transplant, but there must have been a lot that went before that for you.
	You began to get ill.
	How old are you now?
	I'm, in a few days, I'll be 57.
	57, almost.
	Alright, when did you begin to get ill?
	I was diagnosed, well, my first symptoms were in 1982.
	I'm a dancer and I found it difficult suddenly to be dancing as much as I had been.
	Walking up small inclines, I'd get short of breath.
	This went on and progressed for about a year until I finally went to the doctors and was diagnosed with something called PPH, Primary Pulmonary Hypertension, which turns out is a rare lung disease which eventually causes the right side of the heart to go into failure.
	Wow!
	There's no known reason for it to come on.
	And there's no known cure for it.
	The only final hope is a heart and lungs transplant.
	Pulmonary, say it again, PPH.
	Primary pulmonary hypertension.
	Primary because there's no known cause.
	Now there are people who are getting PPH today because of the drug Fen-Phen.
	And some of them become quite ill very rapidly and need to get the transplants.
	But in my day, this is new, the diet pill cause of that.
	Well, you must have had several significant discussions with your doctor, which must have been very difficult.
	In other words, at some point your doctor must have said, this is terminal.
	No, as a matter of fact, that's the irony of it.
	When I was diagnosed and told that I had this PPH, I believed that it was just a minor condition because He told me I didn't need any heart surgery, I just needed some medication and I thought, well, it couldn't be that serious.
	Sure.
	It wasn't until almost a year later when I happened to see an article in the Parade Magazine on the cover of the Parade Magazine of the Globe one Sunday, a picture of a woman, 47 years old, who had had the first heart and lungs transplant in the world.
	She was from Phoenix.
	Her name was Mary Galki and I thought, my gosh, she was sitting in a wheelchair and She had written a book called I'll Take Tomorrow and I thought that's interesting I wonder what was wrong with her.
	I opened and started to open the page that she was written about and started reading and just about fell off my chair because it said that she had a rare fatal progressive disease called primary pulmonary hypertension.
	And that's how I learned that I had a serious illness, and you know, there's something wrong with me.
	So the doctor didn't tell you that?
	No, no.
	When I went back with this information, I confronted the doctor.
	I was told that he didn't want to be an alarmist, that the progression was different with each person, and yes, well my ace in the hole, if it came to that, would be the heart and lungs transplant.
	Oh brother!
	That's the moment that I took responsibility for myself and began to take charge of things.
	Well, you found out about this first in 1982.
	What year are you now talking about?
	When I discovered that?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Well, it was about 1984.
	So a couple of years later.
	Yeah, when I got that information.
	I had already had it for a couple of years and actually The prognosis was not good that from the onset of it you'd only have two to three years of life.
	Two to three years?
	Yes.
	Boy, you would think it would be absolutely incumbent on any physician to tell you that so you could plan for your life.
	But I know that's not what happened.
	And that's kind of the way it's been all through the course of my illness and then even about getting the transplant.
	The big lesson I learned was really to take charge of one's own life and take responsibility, not leave it in the hands entirely of others.
	So I take it over the years then it began to get progressively more serious?
	The disease, yeah.
	Well, I had a three-year respite because my brother-in-law, who did some research in New York and founded a drug for me called Procardia, Which is commonly used for hypertension.
	I finally persuaded the doctors to let me use that and found that that almost made my life normal for about three years.
	Slowed it up?
	Yeah, the use of that drug, which then those three years gave me time to get things in order with my teenage daughter.
	I was very honest with her. I brought in her father, my ex-husband, and a psycho-spiritual
	healer. We talked about things. I taught her about bank accounts and all kinds of things
	that she needed to know about. Life, about life.
	I did a lot of psycho-spiritual healing and a lot of holistic kinds of health.
	I would do the same thing if faced with a fatal disease like cancer or anything else.
	I would try what the doctors had to offer, but then I think I would try any alternative method I could glom onto as well.
	So I can imagine why you did that.
	That's what I did, and it was very helpful.
	I felt that if this was going to be the end part of my life rather than the middle part, I wanted to do it with a sense of equanimity.
	and do it as best I could.
	I became very spiritual.
	I did a lot of visualizing, meditation, prayer, readings.
	That's when I found Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' books, Stephen Levine, John Polsky.
	I lived in the moment.
	I lived as best as I could every day that I had.
	When did all of this then come to a crisis point for you?
	In 1988 I began to go downhill and I knew that that drug at some point would lose its efficacy and sure enough it did.
	In 1988 I started slipping downhill.
	I found out about a transplant program at Johns Hopkins in Maryland and in February of 1988 I flew there.
	A friend came with me and I was evaluated for a transplant.
	All of this, of course, is horrendously expensive.
	Were they doing this gratis somehow?
	through we would be flown immediately by helicopter to Johns Hopkins for the transplant.
	All of this of course is horrendously expensive.
	Were they doing this gratis somehow?
	Well I had good health insurance that covered 80% of it but the other part was covered by
	the Mass Transplant Fund which is paid by taxpayer money and it's an incredible fund.
	It helps transplant recipients and people getting ready for transplants as it did for
	me and it's one of the very few in the country that has done that.
	That has a transplant fund.
	Okay, so at this point you're on a list.
	You get a beeper and you wait.
	It's my understanding, and I guess it varies depending on the organs, but only a very relatively small percentage of people make it and get the organs.
	Many more, I think, die, don't they?
	Yeah, it's usually a long wait.
	By this time, the few years that I had, I did a lot of networking and I found out a few people who were waiting for these kinds of transplants.
	And yes, a lot of them didn't make it.
	There's a big shortage of organ donors and it's a great need for them in this country.
	Yes, there is.
	That's why I urge people to sign their cards, donor cards, and also to tell their family of their wishes.
	You know, I don't think we mentioned, but my whole story is chronicled in my book called A Change of Heart.
	And I've written it with William Novak.
	Yes.
	In Write it to the Stars.
	Right.
	It was a wonderful collaboration.
	A Change of Heart.
	And that's generally available in bookstores, right?
	In all the bookstores, yes.
	It's been out since May.
	I did a book tour of the United States and England and Ireland.
	And it's on tape also, and William Novak is the one who wrote Iacocca, Magic Johnson, Nancy Reagan's story.
	There are some very, very profound issues raised by your case, and I want to know if I have got it straight.
	Finally, I guess the beeper went off.
	The helicopter ride?
	No, no, actually that's another incredible thing that didn't really happen that way.
	I never got called for the transplant until Johns Hopkins.
	I had heard that a young surgeon was coming from Stanford, California to open up a center to do lung transplants in New England at Yale.
	They were never done in New England before.
	You always had to go out.
	To Pittsburgh or Stanford or John Hopkins.
	I found out about him and I got down for an evaluation Memorial Day weekend of 1988.
	I was told, yes, I was sick enough.
	I was one of four candidates at the time.
	But they hadn't gotten official permission to do the transplants yet.
	I was told to go home.
	It might be a long wait as I knew it could be.
	It could be a couple of years.
	When they got official permission, they had to list me officially.
	and I'd be eventually put on a beeper system.
	Wow!
	Well I went home that day, the next day I was in my home telling my friend what had
	happened and the phone rang and it was the transplant coordinator I had seen the day
	before and she said, Claire we got official permission to do the transplant 17 hours ago.
	We listed you last night and we have a donor for you today.
	Wow.
	And you have two hours to get back here.
	Oh my God.
	And that's how it happened.
	Oh wow.
	So, how long, by the way, at that point, how sick were you and how long did you think that you had to go if you didn't get a transplant?
	I was very ill.
	I was using oxygen.
	I was using wheelchairs.
	I could barely walk from my bedroom to the bathroom.
	I was housebound for a year.
	I didn't have much oxygen in me.
	I was blue.
	I just lived visualizing the day I would be healthy and whole again and dancing, never knowing or believing that that would really happen, but visualizing it.
	I just kept going.
	I'm a good actress and sometimes I faked breathing.
	I really did.
	Sometimes you faked breathing?
	I faked breathing.
	When I felt I couldn't go on, I would just keep on making that effort.
	Until something else happened, and sure enough, it did.
	So you had two hours to get there.
	How far away was this from you?
	Almost three hours.
	And you know, we were there in two hours by car.
	They were going to fly me by helicopter, but it was a hot, humid day, and it was rainy, and they wouldn't have room for my daughter or my friend.
	alert the state police and if you get someone to drive you down we will give you a little
	more time.
	My friend called her husband, he was just about to leave the house and he was over in
	minutes.
	My daughter and I got in the back seat with my oxygen tank and my meditation tape and
	we went down Route 90 at 90 miles an hour.
	And at one point my daughter tapped me and said, Mom, look out.
	And I saw the most beautiful rainbow come out from behind the clouds.
	And she and I just looked at each other and we knew that it was our rainbow connection and that everything was going to be all right.
	And so that really puts you in a very good mood going into it.
	Yeah, I felt calm.
	I felt peaceful.
	I felt like I had no idea that I'd be feeling this way, but I was at peace.
	I had done all my work on healing and forgiveness.
	There was really nothing more to say to any of my friends or family who gather around me, and I felt sad for them in case I didn't make it.
	But I felt very strongly that I was in God's hands now and whatever would be, would be.
	And I was ready to go with it.
	Did you do a hard-nosed calculation of your own odds going into it?
	What did you think?
	Oh, I knew that it was 50-50 odds whether I would live or die.
	Fifty-fifty.
	Is that generally the kind of odds somebody would expect to get in that situation?
	Well, I was told that to bring, when I was on the phone with the transplant coordinator, what to bring with me, she said, bring jogging shorts and sneakers and stuff like that.
	I laughed.
	She said, no, it's true, we'll get you up on an exercise bicycle right after the transplant.
	Really?
	The difficult part will begin after the transplant.
	Most generally they can get you through the transplant in most cases.
	But it was the days after that was really critical.
	How long were you on the table?
	Five and a half hours.
	Five and one half hours.
	And so they had to open you up, remove two lungs, and... They sawed me in half.
	What?
	They sawed with an electric saw.
	sawed my chest right down the middle, took out my heart and lungs, put me on a bypass
	machine, God knows where I was then.
	And this is all described in my book, when the transplant coordinator came back she had
	gone to procure the organs with a team to Maine where the organs were coming from.
	She came back with the organs safely in the little cooler in her hand and she came into
	the operating table, she had seen me just the day before, well hours before she had
	We talked and there she saw for the first time in her life someone she knew laying on the operating table, chest open with an empty cavity in it.
	She said it was awesome.
	She couldn't believe it.
	I've got to ask, during this whole time, five and a half hours, did you dream?
	Did you have any thoughts at all when you woke up from all of this?
	No.
	While I was out, all that was going on, but I was really out.
	The only recognition I had of the subconscious things going on came out in dreams after, and even years after.
	It seems like around the anniversary.
	of the transplant each year I would have a very significant dream.
	In fact a couple of years later the dream was the sound and it must have been the sound of the saw opening me up because it was a wrenching sound and I saw in the dream I saw myself all in white kind of lying horizontal with this white cover over me and the whole bed and I was shaking.
	And I was telling someone who was looking at this scene that that was me being shocked back into life.
	And then I called the transplant coordinator and I said, did they use the paddles on me?
	And she said, yes.
	Oh, they did?
	They did.
	See, I hadn't known until that point.
	You asked the right question.
	I mean, you had no heart for a time.
	You had no lungs.
	You weren't breathing.
	You had no heart beating.
	Where were you?
	That's it.
	That's it.
	I don't know.
	I have no, those were the only memories in my dreams that were significant.
	There was one year of the odor of something that I was smelling that was very strong, and then that was of the hearing of the saw, the sound of it.
	And when I first awakened from the transplant, all I was conscious of were voices.
	And they were all telling me different things, mostly calling my name.
	The last thing I heard before I went under that I was told by the doctor was that the lungs especially are very fragile and I had to know.
	He had to tell me that I may not get them even though they opened me up.
	They wouldn't take out my heart and lungs until the heart and lungs were there.
	But... That seems a reasonable precaution.
	Right, but... Clare, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, and I can tell we're about to get to a very interesting part.
	So hang tight.
	You've got several minutes.
	Relax.
	My guest is Clare Silvia.
	And the interview speaks for itself.
	you're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Costa Costa M from July 21st, 1997.
	Thank you.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 21st, 1997.
	Well, Clara said she was a dancer.
	So I thought this might work well.
	Good morning, everybody.
	My guest is Clara Sovia.
	She has authored a book, co-authored, I guess, called A Change of Heart and Lungs.
	and we'll proceed with the interview in a moment.
	Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think the 9-11 Commission did a shoddy job investigating that tragedy and that we as Americans are owed a brand new investigation with a lot of these questions.
	And if they come back after a thorough investigation and tell us, you know, this is the way it is, then that's the way it is.
	But I think we need a new investigation and let the truth take us wherever it goes.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, back now to Claire Sylvia.
	Claire, one quick question.
	Did they tell you prior to your operation who was the donor?
	Oh, absolutely not.
	You're sworn to secrecy on both sides.
	You're not allowed to know who the donor is and they're not allowed to know who the organs go to.
	And the reasoning for that is what?
	I really don't know.
	Other than they really don't want to get into it.
	They feel it's too much of an emotional trip.
	And it's brought with too many problems that I think they really don't want to handle.
	Okay, well I thought that was a case of a very ironclad rule.
	It hasn't, but thank goodness it's been changing and it's something that I've been an advocate for for the change for all these years and I see that it's not as ironclad anymore and now there are many donor families who are meeting with the recipients and if it's done well With a little bit of time and with a mediator, they've been doing it more and more.
	I would think it would be a positive thing rather than negative.
	I mean, here you've got somebody who has given you life, meeting you, and part of them, or their lost one, is now living within you, and so I would think it would be positive from all directions, but what do I know?
	Yeah, in my case and in most of the others that I've seen, it really is a positive thing.
	It's mixed with a lot of emotions, and it can bring up some difficulties.
	I've experienced both sides of it with my donor family.
	Anyway, you woke up from, and I will ask you about that, you woke up from the operation, you heard only voices calling your name.
	No eyesight, your eyes didn't open, you just began to hear voices.
	Right, and the last words that were spoken to me were the very first words that I remembered, and those words from the doctor saying, you may not get the organs.
	Anything can happen.
	When he had said that to me before I went under, I said, we'll go with it, Doc.
	It's in God's hands now.
	Do what you have to.
	Wow.
	And nobody was telling me, since I was the first one to have it done in New England, nobody was thinking to tell me did I get them or not.
	They were just calling my name and trying to wake me up.
	And I had a tube in my throat and my hands tied down so I couldn't speak.
	And I motioned with my fingers to write, so they brought me paper and pencil.
	And I wrote down, did I get them?
	And then they realized, and they said yes, and everything is fine.
	And then I slipped out of consciousness again for another day, I think.
	Wow.
	The trauma to your body from literally being sawed in half, I would think the body would go into some sort of shutdown, protective-type shutdown for a while, and you would just have to sleep.
	Yeah well that's what happens and in fact for me as I describe it in the book it's like kind of like it takes a while like ice cubes melting that you are in a kind of shock and I think that is a godlike protective thing for you I mean because you don't feel many emotions at first you don't cry or laugh because I think that would be too traumatic to the stitches and all that's going on in the healing process that takes place.
	And that doesn't happen for several days after.
	You must have been amazed though, still for that instant when they told you, yes, you got them, it's all done.
	Oh yeah, there was a big sigh of relief and then I slipped out of consciousness again.
	So then a day later, you woke up.
	I woke up and I was hooked up to all the machines.
	By then was all I could remember.
	I don't even remember having the respirator in me.
	The respirator was out.
	And the first few days I was on a lot of morphine and I was kind of in that.
	But I do remember the third day they wheeled that stationary bicycle into my room and they got me up on it.
	On the third day?
	On the third day.
	I walked over to it and got up and rode for 20 minutes.
	Maybe not 20 minutes but a few minutes the first day.
	But I mean that was incredible.
	For the last year of my life, I couldn't even walk to the bicycle, let alone get up and ride on it.
	Holy smokes!
	So, it must have been very joyful for you.
	I mean, you were doing things you had not done before.
	I would imagine your skin color was returning to its norm.
	Oh, immediately.
	My nails and my skin was pink again, and that blue look that I had was a lack of oxygen.
	Yeah, I was doing quite well.
	Psychologically, I could not assimilate what happened to me.
	It was so traumatic, this ripping apart and putting back together with someone else's organs.
	It's been a very long process, a lot of integrating, needing to go on, a lot of help that I sought and found psychologically, a lot of dealing with my inner world, with the dreams that I've had, the nightmares.
	It's been years.
	And at first, even though physically I could do everything, my body was in the old mode.
	For instance, when I dropped the soap the first time in the shower before, I couldn't even bend down to pick it up because I would go into such a strong angina attack it would nearly kill me.
	And now the first time I drop the soap after the transplant.
	Oh, my God, I can't bend down to get that because such and so will happen.
	And I had to retrain my whole mind, my thinking that, well, no, you've got to try it.
	Maybe that won't happen now.
	And very slowly I would try it and find that I was okay.
	It didn't happen.
	And it was like that with every step of the way.
	It was like a baby learning to walk again.
	Realizing that you had abilities restored that you wouldn't even know about?
	Yeah, like a baby, I suppose.
	Trying something for the first time again.
	Wow.
	Now, the remarkable part of your story is, I don't know, let's see, two lungs and a heart, that probably represents about a third, and I'm just guessing, I'm not a doctor, I don't know, but it seems like about a third of everything that is in you Major organ-wise, at least.
	Yeah, it's a big mess of tissue.
	So, you actually then began to have, the story goes, cravings of a young teenage boy.
	Is that true?
	Well, there were various things.
	The first thing that happened was in the O.R.
	room, not the O.R., the I.C.U., the Intensive Care.
	Intensive Care.
	When the people from the press came in, I was the first one to have this done in New England, so it was the front page of the paper.
	It made the news all over, especially New England.
	And they asked me, now that I had this miracle, what did I want more than anything?
	And my reply was, I'd die for a beer right now.
	A beer?
	A beer.
	And I'm not a beer drinker.
	And that kind of took me by surprise that I had said it.
	I was a bit mortified that I, you know, I answered.
	A profound question with such a flip answer.
	Yeah, in other words, where did that come from?
	Yeah, exactly, and my thought was, well, maybe my donor was a beer drinker, but I thought, no, that's too radical, and I just let it go.
	But as time went by, more and more things began to happen like this.
	I started questioning things that were happening and asking the doctors, whose cells are these anyway, when you gave me such a huge amount of tissue from someone else?
	Yes.
	Are they his cells?
	Do they take over?
	Do my cells take over?
	Nobody was answering these questions.
	Well, at that point, did you even know whether it was a male, female, or whatever?
	I knew.
	What was flipped to me after the surgery was that I had received the organs of a young man who had been killed, an 18-year-old who had been killed in a motorcycle crash.
	I see.
	So I knew that much, but I didn't know anything else about him.
	Okay, so at this point, you must have begun to question and self-examine your own feelings about things.
	What did you start to come up with?
	Well, I did that, especially with the nightmares and dreams that began.
	I did a couple of things.
	I found a Jungian dream analyst whom I had heard about the whole night and began to work with Robby Bosnack.
	We began to work on the nightmares and the dreams of my inner life.
	I also began to speak to other transplant recipients to see if anything like this was happening to them.
	Robby Bosnack and I set up a little group which we studied intensively for a year.
	It was the beginning of our research program, and in the back of our book we have a place to write and call into for ongoing research for other people who have any of this kind of phenomenon going on.
	Well, what did you find?
	We found that yes, other people were feeling, who had the heart and heart and lung transplant, that they too were living with the presence of another, and that they were having different kinds of personality traits come through after their transplant.
	Do you think you were dreaming the dreams of another?
	I think in part I was.
	Like and to what they had been like before. And we've collected many, many anecdotes.
	Do you think you were dreaming the dreams of another?
	I think in part I was. I describe a dream in my book about going to another world
	and it was my first cross-gender dream where I become a man in a dream and I'm about to marry a young blonde woman.
	And I'm haunted by this blonde woman not only in my dreams but in my waking life.
	And it wasn't until a year ago when I did research for the book that I found out that Tim, my donor, was in love with a blonde woman as fit that description.
	Oh my!
	But the strange part, it gets even stranger, was the way I found my donor family was through a dream six months after the transplant.
	When I'm in a field with a young man and I know him well.
	He's my good friend and his name is Tim L. And I'm about to leave him.
	I go back to kiss him.
	We kiss and I inhale him into me and know that we'll be together forever.
	When I awakened from the dream I felt for sure that this must be my donor.
	It felt like the deepest breath I had ever taken and it meant that I must have really integrated the heart, lungs, You dreamed the name?
	The name was Tim L. I called the transplant coordinator and told her the dream, asked if his name could have been Tim L. There was a moment of silence and then she said, no, no, no, don't try to find out.
	You can't know this.
	So I let it go and it was about another six months.
	I was led again another way to finally find the obituary of my donor and his name was Tim L. Wow.
	And then it was several months after that that I contacted the family, and they wanted to meet me as much as I wanted to meet them.
	And we did, and I've been in a relationship with them ever since.
	Then when you met the family, obviously you got to learn about Tim's life.
	Yeah, and that's when they corroborated all these things that were happening.
	I remember sitting in their living room that day, and we were corroborating the different things and talking about the food preferences and so forth.
	And they said, well, you know, Timmy's favorite food was chicken nuggets.
	And when he died, they had to pull him out of his motorcycle jacket.
	He had just bought them.
	When they said that, I said, oh, my God.
	And they said, what's wrong?
	I said, well, I never told anyone this, and I just thought of it now.
	But the first thing I did when they gave me permission to drive myself was I found myself going to a Kentucky Fried Chicken place to get chicken nuggets.
	Really?
	I think something I've never done before.
	Oh, my goodness.
	All right, Claire, I have this question.
	Since all of that at the beginning, which occurred, these cravings and all the rest of it occurred very close in after the operation, has it begun to fade, or are these things all still with you?
	No, it has faded.
	I don't dream as much about him.
	There has been a kind of resolution or closure there.
	I felt strongly that there needed to be resolution for the first few years, especially when I met with the family.
	A series of things happened that I describe in my book.
	There was one very significant thing that I think was the final resolution in which Tim Spirit left me, and that was a few years ago.
	It was after I had a dream.
	I call 22 bikes.
	In the dream I'm revving up 22 motorcycles to have them driven around the town to commemorate
	something.
	When I awakened from the dream I couldn't fathom what that meant.
	I thought about it for a while and then I thought, well had he lived he would have been
	22.
	It was right around the anniversary which is his 22nd birthday.
	His passion in life was for riding a motorcycle and I thought well that must mean I've got
	to ritualize this dream.
	I called a friend of mine who has a motorcycle.
	He's a dancer friend of mine and he agreed to meet me one night in Boston.
	And he drove me, he did, he drove me around on the back of his bike from one dance to another.
	And as we went, I was really exhilarated riding the bike and I knew it was for my heart.
	I felt the love of that.
	I was also frightened for the rest of it.
	But as we got from one dance to the other and the evening progressed, I became more and more sad and I felt that something was changing, something was happening.
	It was only in retrospect of that moment that I realized that it was at that time that I was letting go of Tim's spirit and that he had taken me as far as he could on this journey.
	And he was free.
	That was the letting go.
	Is your sense, or was your sense, Claire, that his spirit really was with you?
	In other words, I guess all our lives, the question we've been trying to answer is, what is the soul?
	What is the spirit?
	Are they separate?
	Is it one?
	Is it part of us?
	And was he really With you, or was it sort of an echo of his life that was with you?
	What would you say about that?
	Well, it is very hard to describe, but I felt the essence of it being within me.
	I knew him intimately, like I have known nobody else.
	I knew his soul.
	I knew the best part of him.
	and I lived with that for a long time until I think that moment until I let it go so that part of the old Claire the way I was like before combined with this new spirit of what came in of Tim I came into like a third entity and then came into my own again this third new being when I felt his spirit leave and all the time that He and parts of him were with me, the spiritual part.
	I was not lonely in the same way that I had been before.
	There was always him, this other presence, with me.
	Do you think that Tim's spirit in total was with you until that moment?
	In other words, was earthbound until that moment?
	I believe so because it changed.
	It has felt very different since then.
	It's been for the first time after that that I've been able to get into a relationship, a long-lasting relationship.
	I've been about four years now with Jerry, who is my dance partner also.
	Up until that point, I was really not able to get into a relationship with a man.
	Because you were already in one?
	Yeah, and there was a sense of jealousy, and nobody could really get close to me.
	Wow!
	And that's all changed.
	And now I've been in a relationship and it's been very different.
	You know it might give, you were talking about urging people to sign donor cards, it might give somebody pause, and this is something we ought to talk about I suppose, pause to think that if they did sign a donor card in their heart and lungs or other parts of their body, Well, I have a chapter in my book where some scientists are addressing these issues.
	There's talk about cellular memory.
	There's talk about energy fields.
	would you address that? Well, I have a chapter in my book where some scientists are addressing
	these issues. There's talk about cellular memory, there's talk about energy fields.
	It's really very exciting that this is open now for discussion. And there's a woman called
	Julie Motz who's doing very exciting work. She's working right along in the OR room with
	the surgeons in New York at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital.
	Who are doing these transplants and when the organs come in from the donors, before they are transferred into the recipient's bodies, she does healing, cleansing work with the organs, freeing the trauma from the spirit from the organs so that they go in a clean way.
	I believe this is what my processing through the years is.
	I actually did, without knowing that I was doing it, that this was happening to me.
	All right, Claire, we're at the top of the hour, so relax, and when we come back, if you wouldn't mind taking a few calls?
	Sure.
	All right.
	Claire Sylvia is my guest.
	you're listening to our bills somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from july
	twenty first nineteen ninety seven
	the the
	the you're listening to work bills somewhere
	She received the heart and lungs of an 18-year-old boy killed in a motorcycle accident.
	Following that, she began to assume much of his identity.
	of Costa Costa AM from July 21st, 1997.
	My guest is Claire Sylvia.
	She received the heart and lungs of an 18-year-old boy killed in a motorcycle accident.
	Following that, she began to assume much of his identity.
	If you have questions for Claire, it would be a good time to come now.
	You know the numbers.
	Thank you.
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	You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norris.
	I'm concerned about the divide that's happening in this country right now.
	It's almost as if you cannot talk publicly about how you feel about an issue without getting stampeded by someone who doesn't agree with you.
	And you know what?
	That's dangerous in this country.
	The luxury of the United States has been our ability to be able to talk and explain and to take positions without being attacked and ridiculed.
	And I've never seen it worse than it is today.
	And it's got to change because, you know, it's going to take us down the wrong path.
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	And then from that point, we as Americans can make up our own minds.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Back now to Claire Sylvia near Boston.
	and back now to clare sylvia uh... in near boston clare
	let me try this question out on you Do you think that during the time that you felt the presence of this young man, Tim, that you were feeling an ongoing spirit or a sort of a cellular memory of what Tim was, of what his life was?
	Were you feeling an ongoing presence that had some sort of consciousness?
	I'm really not even sure how to approach this to ask it right.
	Or were you feeling a sort of a replay or a cellular recollection of what Tim was?
	I really don't know except I can say that it was a combination of all of those things.
	I believe that there is memory in all of our organs and my questions about whose cells are they anyway, when you take such a A massive amount of tissue is heart and lungs and you put it from one person to another, something's got to come over with it.
	You've got the DNA.
	You've got the cellular structure in it.
	It's a hologram.
	It's the makeup of the whole person and that's got to come over.
	It's like putting one floppy disk that you've programmed from one machine into another.
	It comes with what it was programmed into from the first machine that it was in.
	It's just a transference.
	It just seems like that's what was happening and then on a spiritual level I was feeling the other intangible kind of thing, just feeling that presence and knowing somebody else's being was combining with mine within me.
	So, how would you describe the presence?
	In other words, would you say of the presence that it almost had a consciousness to it?
	That it was transferring information to you?
	Yeah, in a way.
	It was, because it was like, where was this information coming from?
	It was memory, but it was as if it wasn't my memory.
	It was his memory.
	And some of his dreams, too, I guess.
	Dreams that were coming from me.
	They were becoming my dreams, but they were really of him.
	All right.
	Again, your book is Change of Heart.
	A change of heart.
	A change of heart.
	A memoir co-authored by me, Claire Sylvia, and William Novak.
	I hope you read it.
	Who is William Novak?
	William Novak wrote Iacocca.
	Ollie Norris, Madame Mayflower, the Nancy Reagan story, Tip O'Neill, Magic Johnson.
	His fantasy was always to write for a non-celebrity who had a compelling story, who was accessible to him.
	You've got a compelling story, alright.
	Yeah, and we live a town apart, so when we got together we started writing almost every day, and it was a wonderful collaboration.
	We've become good friends.
	When did the operation take place?
	What date?
	Um, May 29th, 1988.
	1988?
	Um, one would presume or guess, 88, 98, it's been almost a decade.
	Um, how are you doing?
	Oh, I'm doing very well, thank you.
	Um, I've been, I've had no rejection all these years.
	I've been dancing.
	I'm doing ballroom dance now.
	Competition.
	Wow!
	Performance.
	Really?
	I travel all over the world.
	I conduct dream choreography workshops.
	I lecture.
	Now that the book is out, I did this book tour.
	So I'm very active.
	That's remarkable.
	So no rejection problems at all.
	I take it they probably pumped you full of anti-rejection type drugs.
	Yes, and I still continue to take them.
	Eventually the long term use of these has an effect on your other organs.
	In fact this week I have to deal with a kidney biopsy because my numbers are a little high on the kidney function.
	And they're concerned, the doctors are, that the long-term is a cyclosporine is affecting them.
	So they keep a very close tab on you still.
	Yeah, you really need to be in close check.
	But almost at this point, I guess, no matter what happens, you've been given the gift of a decade.
	Absolutely.
	Wow!
	Alright.
	Every day has been a gift.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
	Hello.
	Yeah, good morning.
	I was curious, since you're involved in the donation process, if you feel there should be a possible priority list for the people who go into the system with prior notarized donor cards, as opposed to people who go into the system, are against organ donations altogether, then all of a sudden, they're in need of an organ in their place, unless it's everybody else.
	Should there be a list for those people?
	Okay, where are you, caller?
	I'm in Albany, New York.
	Alright.
	In other words, Claire, he's saying the people who have signed organ cards, Should they, in your view, get some sort of priority for organs, should they need them, versus somebody who has either never considered it or rejected it?
	If they've signed an organ donor card?
	No, I feel that someone who has... I was just on the Leisa program, which will be airing soon, there was a young woman Who donated an organ, she's a living donor, she donated a kidney to her brother who was in need, who would have died if he hadn't gotten it.
	And then eight months later she needed a kidney of her own and they wouldn't list her.
	Now that, she has changed the law so that now if somebody donates that they will be high up on the list and if they are in need that they will become able to have uh... definitely not with the donor
	you can't get a donor otherwise
	a clear how do they decide uh...
	gets priority and that there are of course a million stories going around
	about uh... famous people or politicians are people with a lot of
	pool who go toward the head of the list
	uh... true or false I really don't know.
	I've heard both sides of it.
	It's a possibility.
	I wouldn't say that that really is true because I know that the match-up has to be the blood type, the tissue type, and the size of the organs.
	And you're high up on the list.
	The sicker you are, the higher up you are on the list.
	Okay, so that determines it.
	What about your status?
	In other words, your age, your viability for a transplant.
	In other words, somebody at 75 years old would not seem as viable a candidate.
	Right, yeah.
	That all factors into it also.
	There is a cut-off age of donating or receiving organs.
	Okay.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Where are you, sir?
	Langley, British Columbia.
	Okay.
	Claire, it's really a privilege to talk to you.
	Thank you.
	I've been working in the healing arts for about 20 years, and about 15 years it just flashed on me that the question, and I want to elaborate in a second, but first of all the question would be, it's not a question, but Organ rejection, one of the reasons that the body would reject the organ would be caused by the different cellular memories of the organ and the person that was receiving it and that there would be out of resonance with each other.
	That there would be that conflict in it and that maybe that's one of the reasons that Families, like you're talking about the brother and sister, that there'd be not only a tissue match, but also a match going back intergenerational because of the inherited cellular memories.
	Yes, but Claire's situation would seem to... I mean, how could you have more of a dissimilar situation?
	She was a lady in her fifties.
	He was a young fellow, eighteen, that rode motorcycles.
	She didn't fight it, Art.
	She didn't.
	She accepted that.
	Okay?
	Oh, because I didn't fight it.
	Well, you acknowledged his feelings.
	Yes, I understand.
	You embraced it and you didn't have a choice in it.
	Yes, and that made the difference.
	The thing is, if you do body work, it releases the trauma and the memories in the cells, right?
	Uh huh.
	Okay.
	What would happen?
	Art, you've got the experience here and you can maybe help me out.
	If you have a tape, and it's got some old programs on it, say I want to record the Art Bell Show and I take an old tape, but some of the old program has bled over.
	So I hear your program, but I hear a little bit of interference off the old program because it didn't completely erase and it kind of bleeds over a little bit.
	Sure, sure.
	The question I have, and please, I thank you for holding on, not cutting me off before now, but what would happen, Claire, do you think?
	the same way that we erased a magnetic tape with kind of like a bulk type
	Eraser you know like an alternating frequency, which would you know basically?
	erase the tape if you would subject the organs to that kind of
	electromagnetic field to somehow try and erase the tape so that the tissue and the organs would become
	Well if you listen roll Well, if you listen carefully, Collar, she said that, in fact, there was a process, not electromagnetic, not a machine process, but a kind of cleansing that is done of organs to release a spirit.
	Am I right, Claire?
	Yes, Julie Motz is doing that in the operating rooms with the surgeons now.
	that very thing not the electronic thing that you're talking about but
	with healing techniques similar to the work that you do a spiritual thing in yeah in releasing um
	the trauma that has that the the organs have experienced from the moment the impact of death before those uh
	releasing that before they are the organs are placed into the recipient
	well that's another thing um If we talk about the spiritual world for a moment, and you talk to people who have researched ghosts and so forth and so on, frequently spirits that appear to be trapped on earth are those of people who died
	Tragically and quickly, in effect, they don't even know they're dead.
	I imagine this young man had probably a head trauma that killed him.
	He probably died instantly.
	And so, in effect, if we're to believe there is a spirit beyond, and I do, then he perhaps did not even know he was dead.
	That's right, yeah.
	So, I'm not saying that you were haunted, but I'm saying that it is more likely in that sort of case, I would imagine, that there would be more of the spirit left.
	It must have been... Did it scare you at times?
	It was very frightening times.
	It was so many things.
	It was such a roller coaster at the beginning.
	I was very depressed.
	I was very confused.
	It's a whole identity crisis.
	It's like, who am I now?
	There was no medical history.
	That stopped me in my tracks walking down the street one day thinking when I came back home I had to have my medical records sent from Yale back up here to Mass General.
	Then I thought, wait a minute, what do I need those records for?
	A medical history.
	I don't have that old hole in my heart.
	I used to have a murmur in my old heart.
	And then I thought, well, wait a minute.
	I don't have that heart anymore.
	Was there ever a moment, Claire, after the operation when you thought you had done the wrong thing?
	No.
	Not a second.
	Not a, no.
	Not a regret at all.
	I wouldn't change one thing, and I talk about that in my book.
	Okay.
	First Time Caller line, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
	Hello!
	Yes, sir.
	Where are you?
	Yes, I'm in Glide, Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, I wanted to make a comment about tonight.
	Go ahead.
	Well, I'm not sure.
	Are you recorded tonight?
	No, we're live.
	You're on the air with Clara Soviet.
	Okay, great.
	Well, listen, I just wanted to say about the regeneration of those cells.
	What?
	Well, I just don't believe that it carries on, that it passes from one person to another.
	I don't believe there's a memory involved there.
	I see.
	Alright, so what do you say to somebody like that, Claire?
	He just flat doesn't believe you.
	Well, there are many people out there like that, and that's fine.
	I say this is my story.
	I'm not trying to prove anything.
	And it's just my story and this is how I'm telling it as it's happened to me.
	And you can either believe it or not?
	Yeah, and I know of others that this has happened to.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clare Sylvia.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, sir.
	Where are you?
	In Sebring, Florida.
	Okay.
	Clare, welcome.
	I certainly hope that you do well with your transplant.
	Thank you.
	I experienced a kidney transplant 13 months ago.
	Good for you.
	Congratulations.
	I had some of the same strange results to be honest with you.
	My donor was a little bit different.
	It was my sister-in-law.
	I woke up having cravings for bananas and peanut butter which she dearly loved.
	I always thought that was kind of strange until I heard your story.
	Evidently there is something to it.
	Uh huh.
	Are you on Cyclosporine or FK now?
	Cyclosporine.
	Okay.
	Imuran and Prednisone.
	Yeah, they just changed me from Neural to FK.
	I may go on to Neural soon or change because of my kidney problems that I'm having now.
	Yeah, well I'm having a rejection episode right now.
	Oh, I'm sorry but they can get you over that very quickly.
	I think so.
	Yeah.
	That's great.
	There's ongoing research, and we'd love to hear if you want to write in your story.
	We're collecting more stories like yours for our research project.
	That must be very important, serving as a collection point, because prior to this, Claire, there really wasn't much of a collection point for stories of people who have gone through this, was there?
	No, no.
	There's very little that's been done, because we researched it when we started getting into this.
	and there was very little out there and the scientific or the doctors are not really interested
	in recording what's going on with the patients. Really? We're a part of history now. This
	is the first time that this has been done and who knows if and how long this will continue.
	That's a pretty good question, how the doctors reacted.
	I take it that certainly at some points you sat down and told the doctors what was going on, and did they just sort of not want to know about it?
	Oh yeah, they said, oh, either, you know, you need help, you're crazy, it's the drugs, or you're having fantasies.
	We were all told that.
	Chip, stand by, Claire, we'll be right back to you.
	Typical, huh folks?
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	This is a presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 21st, 1997.
	Claire Sylvia is a woman in her fifties who received a heart lung transplant and immediately apparently had the cravings of a teenage boy.
	Now this is an absolutely fascinating story and there are so many profound questions attendant to this.
	really profound.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	you you
	Do you wonder where we're going with this kind of science, medical science?
	I suppose you're a big booster of it.
	Some people are hesitant and they think we're beginning to do things that we should not do.
	I'm wondering that too.
	I don't know.
	It's intriguing what's happening.
	It's exciting but it's a little scary also.
	I have mixed feelings about cloning and Yes.
	I was going to ask about that.
	I don't know if that really is going to work because of my own experience and my own thought
	on it.
	I am very excited about what is happening and the fact that scientists are studying
	now the things that I am talking about and that the discussion is happening now.
	But some of the other things that are coming along, if they are misused, I think could
	be potentially dangerous.
	You know, cloning is an obvious source of organs, but it's kind of a nightmare to contemplate, and so we have a very uncertain future with all of this.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia near Boston.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Hello.
	Yes, ma'am, you're on the air.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Chicago.
	Chicago.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Claire, I'm very interested to see what your Comment will be on your experience seems to really dovetail what I'm studying in traditional Chinese medicine in regards to the human anatomy.
	The Chinese believe that the mind and the spirit are associated somewhat with five internal organ networks in the body.
	And looking up the heart and the lungs, the heart is associated with functions such as sleeping, thinking, memory, consciousness, mental activity, and the lung is associated with what the Chinese call the corporeal soul.
	Which is that part of the soul which is always attached to the body and after death it goes down into the earth.
	It doesn't rise upward to any other, to a heaven or to some other plane of consciousness.
	And that the lungs with the corporeal soul are associated with our capacity For sensation, for feeling, for hearing, and for sight.
	Wow.
	I'm glad you're telling us this.
	It's wonderful to know.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much.
	What range of memory, Claire, do you think that you derive from this young man?
	Was it a specific range of memory or only certain things?
	Or do you think that you had sort of a It was a combined totality, I would say.
	It encompassed so many things.
	I was also feeling his rhythm, living with his heart.
	We each have an individual heart rhythm, our beat, the way our heartbeat is different.
	From one person to another, so he was getting used to it.
	His whole being became the rhythm of my life, which was totally different from anything I had ever known before, causing me to do different things.
	I mean, I talk about the trip I took to France a year after the surgery.
	I had no idea why I was traveling around France carrying on like a young boy.
	sitting in train stations with other youth going on hostels.
	Really?
	Yeah, and my middle-aged woman's body was fighting, trying to keep up with this youthful
	energy of my heart that seemed to be propelling me there throughout this trip.
	I was wondering why on earth am I doing this and yet I couldn't stop.
	And then it wasn't until I met with a family over a year after that that I found that they
	were French-Canadian.
	Oh my.
	Did you find it, would you describe it as exhilarating or confusing or both?
	Both.
	It was like riding on the back of the motorcycle.
	It was exhilarating for my heart and it was frightening for the rest of me.
	Wow.
	Alright, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Solvia.
	Hi.
	Yes, hello.
	Hello.
	I've been listening to your show for about two weeks, and I really like it.
	Thank you.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Las Vegas.
	Las Vegas, alright.
	I had a question for Miss Sylvia.
	I was wondering what it feels like, wondering if you're going to get the Oregon when you're on the list.
	That just seems like it would be too much to even contemplate.
	Well, with a weak heart already, I see what you mean.
	The tension of waiting.
	It was difficult.
	It was very difficult, but I took it each day at a time.
	And lived with a sense that I wasn't really waiting, that I lived the fullest that I could each day because I never really knew if it was going to come.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Clare Sylvia.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	How are you doing?
	Fine.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Charleston, South Carolina.
	Okay.
	Good.
	Clare, how are you doing?
	Fine, thanks.
	Well, listen, I'm sitting here waiting on a heart transplant myself.
	Oh, good luck to you.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I just don't know what to expect from it.
	I had to be disabled.
	I had to quit my job and that sort of thing.
	How did you get through all that?
	Everything that you used to do is just gone.
	How did you get through it?
	I did a lot of meditation and visualization.
	I read books like Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Stephen Levine, Gerald Jampolsky.
	Right, yeah, I became very spiritual. I did a lot of prayer.
	I did a lot of meditation and visualization.
	I read books like Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Stephen Levine, Gerald Jampolski.
	They were wonderful books that helped me get through that very difficult time.
	And so is that the advice that you would give to somebody like that young man waiting?
	Yes.
	Just do the best you can every day if you can learn to meditate, if you can find a psycho-spiritual healer to help you through it.
	Those are the kinds of things that I did.
	How much of the fact that your organs, the organs you have, were not rejected, do you attribute to the spiritual side of everything?
	I think a lot.
	I believe in the mind-body effect and I believe if you think positive thoughts that these will come back to you as well as negative thoughts do.
	So as much positive energy as you can put into it, that's what I did a lot.
	I used a lot of the New Age literature also and that helped me through it.
	All right, so you don't reject that out of hand.
	A lot of people would say you can't mix fire and water, and New Age and traditional religion are like mixing fire and water.
	I mixed everything.
	I used whatever I could.
	Good for you.
	And I still do.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Turn your radio off, please, and tell us where you're calling from.
	I'm from California.
	Okay.
	Can I have a question for the lady?
	All right.
	Actually, I'd like to comment.
	I was really impressed with her great being and her survival, really.
	It just happened that I found out about six months ago that one of my nephews, who had gone through a transplant for his pancreas, his kidneys, his liver, had gone through Almost to the verge of losing his post because of the medication.
	And I thought, what can she comment on it?
	Or is this because she's having something... I'm sorry, what is the name of it?
	Well, okay, she's going through actually a transition, I think we're about to, with medicine now.
	And I guess that is the tough part of it, Clara.
	The medicine you have to continue to take after the transplant.
	Yeah, that, yeah.
	You do have to continue that.
	Forever?
	Yes, until they come up with something else because it is a chance that you could reject at any time.
	Alright, here's a hard question for you.
	You, of course, received human organs.
	But if you were in that same condition, the condition you were in prior to the transplant, and they had offered you the opportunity to have animal organs instead, and the alternative was obvious, what decision do you think you would have made?
	It's very hard when I'm asked a question like that to answer what if, what I would have done, because I didn't know what I was going to do the way it was until the moment the call came in.
	I made the split-second decision at that moment.
	Oh, in other words, you hadn't fully made up your mind?
	No.
	I had lived not knowing what I would really do until that moment.
	And I really can't say if I would think That probably if that were my only chance of survival, I might just go for it just the way I did if I knew that it's a possibility of prolonging my life, just the way I did this last time.
	But I don't know.
	I never know what I'm going to do, what I'm going to be, what I'm going to say, given a certain situation.
	That's a fair answer, and I don't know what my answer would be either.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
	Good morning.
	Hi this is Terry and I'm calling from Grand Junction Colorado.
	Yes sir.
	I'm a first time caller and I have two quick questions.
	I was wondering if Claire could share some interesting things that other people experience from their transplants and has anybody had an animal transplant that somehow they have some kind of animal reactions?
	All right.
	First of all, Claire, others that you have now chronicled since you're beginning to collect stories, what have others experienced?
	Well, there's a man, a friend of mine, who became a friend in our intensive group, who had a heart transplant.
	And he's convinced that he's received the heart of someone sedentary, like a couch potato.
	He was very active before.
	He was a wonderful dancer.
	And he was an expert in throwing horseshoes.
	He used to wear a horseshoe ring.
	And after the transplant, he went back to throwing these horseshoes, and his arm and hand were going the opposite way that they had before.
	And he used to curse out his heart and say, you young kid, you've got to learn how to play.
	So he had to relearn and teach his heart how to dance again and how to play horseshoes.
	So he did all that instead of becoming a couch potato?
	You're right.
	Are there a lot of stories like that?
	Oh, yes.
	There are many.
	Dr. Paul Pearsall, we used one of his stories in our book.
	He's a scientist.
	He had a transplant of his own, and he studied the transplant community.
	He talks about a couple that were in a car having a fight.
	It was a rainy night.
	The windshield wipers were going quite strongly and suddenly they couldn't see and a car came
	right through the windshield and killed the man instantly.
	Sometime later after she donated all of her husband's organs she felt she really wanted
	to meet the person who had received his heart.
	And Dr. Pearsall had set this up and they got together and he allowed her to place her
	hand on his chest so that she could feel her husband's heart beating within this man.
	And she was able to resolve what she needed to in terms of that last fight and telling
	him that she was sorry and everything was alright.
	I was afraid you were about to tell me they had a fight.
	No, she resolved it and after that the man who lived with the heart said this is the
	first time since the transplant that I feel a lightness in my heart.
	said but I have one question for you I keep hearing this clicking noise going click, click, click.
	She said that was the windshield wipers.
	And she was able to resolve.
	The other thing she said was, you know, now thank you for letting me do this.
	I feel that everything is copacetic.
	And he said, you know, I've been using that word since the transplant.
	And I didn't even know that word.
	I've never used that before.
	And she said, my husband always used to use that word.
	So then obviously, for these reasons, you're becoming a big advocate of the transplant families.
	And the recipient getting together.
	Yes.
	I've always thought that that was a wonderful idea.
	It is a very healing process.
	It helps in the grieving process on both sides.
	Do the doctors explain their objections to that?
	I mean, why do they say it shouldn't happen?
	Well, the way it was explained when I did the Phil Donahue Show and they brought on a transplant surgeon, he said there are so many emotional issues that both sides have to deal with.
	Without meeting each other, that just makes it more confusing and brings in more emotion.
	When he said that, the sisters of my heart who were on the program with us strongly disagreed and said, well how would you know?
	For us it was very healing because she brought back something of Timmy to us and it's wonderful to see that something so great can happen from such a tragedy.
	Have you met with many doctors that understand the spiritual side of it, or even care?
	A few.
	Not many, but a few.
	And when I lectured in Mexico, I found that, and that's why I always have loved to go to Mexico.
	It's like a second home for me.
	The people are very spiritual there, in general.
	They are, you're right.
	And the body of doctors, the cardiac people, the doctors, Good evening, Mr. Bell.
	Good evening.
	Where are you?
	spiritual and we're asking life-death questions the way we're talking on this
	program now not just the medical things that the doctors tend to ask about in
	this country and not just statistics. All right. East of the Rockies you're on the
	air with Claire Sylvia. Hi. Good evening Mr. Bell. Good evening. Where are you?
	Austin, Texas. All right. Your guest, I forget her name I'm sorry.
	Clara Sylvia.
	All right, Ms.
	Sylvia.
	You said you had many dreams after you had the train.
	Call the wildcard lines, area 702-727-1295.
	Actually, in a lot of ways, that's an interesting question.
	Because an 18-year-old boy might have been a listener of Howard's.
	You never know.
	That's a good one.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Clara Sylvia.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I noticed you were talking about a psycho body healer.
	I don't remember the exact term you used.
	I found out within the last year that I have a gift for healing through therapeutic touch.
	I was wondering if you had used that and what the results were, how often you saw the healer, so on and so forth.
	No, I really haven't.
	While I was ill before the transplant, I worked with a psycho-spiritual healer, but it was not hands-on.
	Well, therapeutic touch doesn't actually work with hands-on.
	It works with the energy field around the body, and it deals in healing a lot of times rather than curing.
	You know what would have been a very interesting experiment?
	Kirlian photography is fascinating.
	And I wonder if a Kirlian photograph of you prior to the transplant and after the transplant would have revealed something interesting, and I bet it would have.
	Yeah, that's great.
	I wonder, yes.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Claire Sylvia.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir?
	Yeah, this is Bob calling from Detroit.
	Yes, Bob.
	Yeah, I just kind of wanted to offer a different slant on the subject.
	Well, go ahead.
	Well, I was thinking, Clare, I just wanted to say that you're a very strong woman and handling the matter very well.
	I remember you saying that you wanted to drink beer when the press was talking to you, and then you said you took a ride on a motorcycle to ritualize it, and I was thinking maybe this sort of thing could be Incorporated into, um, as a therapy for other transplant patients.
	Absolutely.
	It's like a way of, like, you know, acknowledging it and then letting it go, so to speak.
	Yeah.
	I wonder, I wonder if, in fact, they did that, Claire, if the success rate... What is the success rate, by the way, now?
	Do you know what it is with heart-lung transplants?
	Well, the last statistic I have, which was a few years ago, is that they've done 1,000 heart and lung transplants in the world and only 50 of us are surviving.
	Wow!
	And some of the centers in the U.S.
	are closing down.
	They're not doing them at Yale or Johns Hopkins anymore.
	Not the heart and lungs.
	Because the success rate has been so minimal.
	Are you convinced that if the doctors would pay more attention to the spiritual side of it, along with the medical side of it, that the success rate would go way up?
	Well I think they need to pay more attention to it, yes.
	I don't know if the doctors can.
	I think the tunnel vision is necessary for them to do the miracles and the work that they're doing in their field.
	That the other people with the spiritual and the imagination and what the things we're talking about needs to be addressed.
	But let that be addressed by different people.
	Just be open to it.
	Not as closed-minded.
	All right, Claire.
	We're at the end of an hour.
	I have one hour of show left, but I have you up in the middle of the night, and I suspect you need to get sleep.
	So, Claire, thank you.
	Oh, thank you.
	It's been a wonderful time talking with you these two hours.
	I wanted to find out if everything that I'd heard about you is true, and it obviously is.
	You are a remarkable story, Claire.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Thanks.
	That's Claire Sylvia, folks.
	Heart and lungs both transplanted with incredible results.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from july twenty first
	nineteen ninety seven and
	and and
	and and
	and premier radio networks presents art bell somewhere in time
	tonight's Well, that was a very, very interesting two hours.
	And I must tell you, it makes me wonder a little bit about the efficacy of the whole idea.
	I don't know that I've come to any conclusions about it.
	In fact, in a lot of ways, I'm wondering More now about it than I was before I went into the interview.
	I mean, here's a lady who obviously has had her life extended by a decade with no end in sight.
	But the real questions are not answered.
	And that is, who are we?
	What are we?
	Are we a combination of all of our physical organs?
	And when that is transferred to somebody else, is that a right thing to do or a wrong thing to do?
	I don't know.
	And after that two-hour interview, I still don't know.
	But it sure was interesting.
	Uh, we'll go into open lines here.
	Listen, tomorrow night, uh, Leonard Nimoy is going to be here, otherwise known to you perhaps as Mr. Spock.
	And, um, I would like to collect questions from any of you between now and tomorrow.
	Now, there are two ways that you can pose questions.
	One is by fax, which I will give you now with a three-page limit.
	Send no more than three pages or I will never see it because it won't print.
	Or if you wish to email a question, my email address is artbell at aol.com.
	That's artbell at aol.com.
	and in this way I'll be able to sift through and collect the very best of the questions for Leonard Nimoy.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	All right, on my international line, you're on the air.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	I'm calling from Shenzhen, China.
	Shenzhen, China?
	Yes, it's just across the border from Hong Kong.
	Yes, indeed it is.
	I was there one time, as a matter of fact.
	Oh, wonderful.
	What are you doing in the Special Economic Area there?
	I'm going to be teaching English at the Shenzhen University.
	Wow!
	We have a little bit of a delay, of course, because of the long-distance call, but how long have you been there, and what do you think of it?
	I came to Hong Kong on June 25th to see the handover, and was there during all of the ceremonies and so forth, and I've been up in Shenzhen now for a week, and I've just started teaching there.
	Well, that's wonderful.
	Let me tell you what my impressions were when I was there.
	It was amazing to me to sit and watch the highway and to watch all of the trucks and all of the commerce going back and forth.
	I was shocked at the amount of commerce going back and forth.
	Have you also noticed that?
	In fact, I spent most of the afternoon today taping from my hotel window because I overlooked the border check.
	And I could watch the trucks going up over the hills in the New Territories.
	Yes.
	And of course watching them come back.
	And they're simply, it's like a train almost.
	They're so close to each other and it's just continual.
	It never stops.
	Well, when I came back from China, I was very chastened.
	I was almost afraid, because I realized what China is going to be.
	And I think most Americans have no idea, unless they've been over there, what the world is facing, as far as China's growth is concerned.
	Eventually, they will probably lead the world.
	Would you agree with that?
	Absolutely.
	In fact, the little town of Shenzhen, which I first started coming to about 10 years ago, was simply a railroad station and railroad tracks and a few
	huts and a few buildings and before that it was primarily duck farm and now it is
	one of the largest cities spreading all the way from the river to the west and over to the
	eastern side and it's one tall building after another.
	And there must be right now, I would guess, 20 to 30 high-rise buildings, 100-story buildings, that are going up simultaneously.
	There's cranes on every roof.
	It's absolutely unbelievable, and most Americans just can't imagine it until they see it, and they should see it.
	Let me ask you this.
	What are you hearing about the reversion of Hong Kong?
	How are things going in Hong Kong?
	Do you have any idea?
	They're having some small, some problems.
	Basically, the handover went very, very smoothly.
	I think all of us, in fact, I think in a way the press media, the 8,000 press people who were credentialed to come to Hong Kong were a little disappointed because they thought there was going to be a little bit more to it.
	And really, in a way, it was kind of ho-hum.
	A lot of them actually split and went to Cambodia two or three days before the handover because there was so little action and things were going so smoothly.
	Right now their biggest problem seems to be in the immigration of the children that have been spawned literally in China that want now to come over and live with their fathers in Hong Kong.
	According to the Basic Law, which is the law that has been adapted for the new special administrative region, the children are given rights if one of the family members, one of the parents, is from Hong Kong.
	However, there are so many of them, because the fathers have been a little on the promiscuous side here in China, and there's thousands of them, which would really be a very difficult thing for Hong Kong to adapt to very quickly.
	I'm surprised.
	You went over to just look at, to observe the handover, and you've ended up up in the other special economic zone, going to work to teach English.
	How did you come to make that decision?
	I'm a travel agent, and I've been coming to Hong Kong with groups three or four times a year for about the last ten years.
	I'm from Sacramento, if I might put a plug in for my town.
	Yes, you may.
	And so a lot of the people who've come here have returned with me, and we go to Bangkok and Singapore and so forth.
	And I have a very close friend who lives in Shenzhen, and I've been coming over here for the last few years, and since they are now in such a hurry to learn English because sitting
	right on the Hong Kong border, this whole entire area of Hong Kong and Shenzhen will be the
	threshold to China. It will be the threshold into Beijing and to Shanghai and to Guilin.
	Literally, it's the window of China.
	Well, when I was there, beginning at the border checkpoint, you say you can overlook that and see it from where you are?
	Well, the truck checkpoint.
	Now, if you came on the train, the Kowloon-Canton Railway, then you come in a little bit further to the west.
	But I'm directly overlooking the truck route on the highway that cuts over the New Territories.
	Did you come by train?
	No, I came by train.
	If you came by train, then you would have come in about a mile west of where I'm sitting right now, where the trains come in.
	I'm talking right now about the 18-wheelers that are nose-to-nose and toes-to-toes going across the New Territories Road, and I have direct access to that right now, and I've been taping it almost all afternoon, and I was so surprised.
	I had the feeling, when I was in John Ann, I went further on up, that I was being watched all the time, and I wonder if you've had any of that feeling, or maybe you've settled down a little more and you don't feel that.
	What do you think?
	The only feeling that I have is because I happen to be a redhead and I'm very light
	conflected and that is the reason I'm watched by all the people.
	I think it's a matter of curiosity.
	I feel absolutely no threat as far as government or I don't feel that I'm being watched by
	any government people or anything of that kind.
	No, I feel perfectly safe here.
	I have no problem with it.
	You're quite right.
	And as you go further in, and I presume you have been from time to time, you can go to towns where they have not seen Westerners and they are so curious, people will literally come rushing out of shops and stores Yes, in fact, if you really want to start a commotion, what you do is you take your camera out and you open it up and take a cartridge of film out of it, and by the time you have gotten another cartridge back in there, you probably have a dozen people standing around watching every move that you're making.
	They're tremendously curious about Westerners, about our culture, about our skin color, about our hair color.
	I've even had people on the street come up and touch my hair.
	And when I go to the beauty shop, all they do is just stand there and shake their heads because they're not used to the fineness of the western hair.
	How long do you plan to stay?
	I'm going to stay probably a month.
	About a month.
	That's wonderful.
	And I'll be back.
	I have a chance possibly of teaching full time and I'm taking it under consideration.
	That would be quite a lifestyle change.
	Yes, it would.
	Well, I hope you will stay in touch.
	Listen, I've got a question for you.
	Do you have a computer, or are you able to get on the Internet from that economic zone?
	I will have.
	This friend that I told you who lives here in Shenzhen, that's a very good friend, is making arrangements today, in fact, to get onto Internet.
	The Internet has taken over in China like you cannot believe.
	Even though it's extremely expensive because you have to pay for calls and on the telephone and everything that you use through a modem.
	But even the expense is something that they're all going in for and the proliferation of computers here is just beyond comprehension.
	I can believe it, because I have something here called iPhone, which allows you not only to talk to somebody, for example, in China, but to see them as well.
	It's a remarkable new technology, and you might want to look into it.
	I'd be glad to help you out with it if I can, but I'm talking to people in China all the time that way, and I would recommend you look into it.
	It's called iPhone.
	I certainly will.
	Anyway, listen, will you call me again?
	Well, I have.
	I've been trying for about the last two weeks to call you, and I was getting a busy signal all the time, and I'm about ready to go out right now, and I was so surprised to get a hold of you.
	That was marvelous.
	Well, it is marvelous.
	It's presently about 224 in the morning here on the west coast of America.
	What time is it and what day there?
	It is Tuesday.
	And it's 521 p.m.
	in late in the afternoon.
	All right.
	Call us again, will you please?
	I certainly will.
	One more thing.
	My name is Betty Story.
	And as I said, I'm from Sacramento, and I'd like to say hello to my family.
	I haven't seen them for so long.
	I think they've forgotten what I look like.
	Well, Betty, I let your last name go out, which I normally don't do, but we are, of course, aired in Sacramento, and I imagine your family is either hearing you or will hear about it.
	Thank you.
	Great.
	Thank you, Art.
	Take care.
	From the Special Economic Zone in China.
	Well, well, well.
	How interesting.
	Hear what she said about the trucks?
	I'd like to get a copy of that videotape.
	Actually, I've got my own.
	It is the most shocking thing you've ever seen in your whole life.
	The amount of commerce coming across the border is not to be believed until you see it.
	Anyway, if you are outside the country someplace or another, we do have a toll-free international line.
	And the way you utilize it is to call the AT&T operator.
	Actually, there are two ways.
	You can get the country code, the AT&T country code, for whatever country you're in.
	Dial that, or failing that, just get the AT&T operator and have her call 800-893-0903.
	800-893-0903 That's 800-893-0903
	and we will pay for the call on this end, even all the way from China.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Eric in Las Vegas.
	Hello, Eric.
	Just got your book this weekend, and I've read about half of it so far, and it's great.
	You're a fast study.
	Well, that's unusual for me.
	I'm glad you're enjoying it.
	It is a good book.
	Just a couple things.
	I was listening to your show a lot.
	The night that you had UFOs spotted over in the Medford area?
	Yes.
	Just a thought.
	I was just looking at a map while I was listening to you.
	The first town south of there, I believe, is Phoenix?
	South of Medford, Oregon?
	Oh, you mean Phoenix City, Oregon?
	Yes.
	Yes, I'm aware of that.
	Oh, okay.
	I just thought that was interesting.
	Oh, it is.
	And in Georgia, did you not have a confirmed sighting there as well?
	LaGrange, was it?
	Yes, as a matter of fact.
	And then I got a message from the LaGrange Mufon guy who said, we didn't know anything about it.
	And he gave me a fax number and I said, I'd be glad to send you all I've got on it.
	And I tried to, and his fax number was no answer, non-operative during the hours he said it was there.
	But, let me read this to you.
	Dear Art, I heard about the LaGrange UFO on your show, but I thought it had been declared to be a hoax.
	Then I received this week's copy of UFO Roundup, a weekly email publication, and lo and behold, V-shaped UFO appears over LaGrange, Georgia.
	Last weekend, at the same time white UFOs were flying over Arizona, radio station WGST in Georgia reported a UFO being seen over the last few nights over LaGrange.
	Morning DJ Ian Panette, is that correct?
	P-O-N-N-E-T, reportedly interviewed the captain of the LaGrange PD about the incidents.
	The UFO was seen to hover, quote, For an extended period of time, and quote, on the night of Sunday, July 13th, 1997, the object appeared to hover at an altitude of approximately 10,000 feet, or 3,030 meters.
	It was substantial in size, and had the same characteristics, V-shaped plus lights, of the UFOs recently sighted in Phoenix.
	It was reportedly seen by thousands of people.
	On June 24th, pilot Jerry T encountered unusual phenomena while flying over La Grange.
	He reported while flying VFR, visual flight rules, at 5,000 feet in clear air under a perfectly smooth, heavy overcast layer at 8,000.
	I saw what appeared to be five holes in the clouds about five miles east of La Grange.
	The holes were perfectly round and approximately 300 yards, 900 feet, or 270 meters in size.
	Below, each cloud was a residue of cloud that was very thin and transparent.
	It appeared to me that something punched downward, creating the holes and pushing some of the cloud vapor with it.
	Jerry ruled out air turbulence, pointing out that, quote, turbulence, depending on altitude, would cause the clouds to mix Erasing the hole.
	These openings remained intact for more than half an hour.
	So, there you are.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Debra from Prescott, Arizona.
	Hi, Debra.
	Hey, I just started listening to your show a few months ago when I was in and out of the hospital for kidney failure.
	Oh, my.
	This last guest you had was really great.
	I'm sorry I didn't get to talk with her.
	Well, I'm going to be thoughtful for some time on how I feel about the whole thing.
	You know, even after interviewing her, and she's been alive a decade when she would not have been otherwise, there are some pretty profound questions that come from that.
	Oh, no kidding.
	No kidding.
	Get good and close to your phone for us.
	Oh, okay.
	You know, I had a comment about that and also a question for you about it.
	The comment is, I'm a diabetic that is now on dialysis, and I'm hoping to get a double transplant, a pancreas and a kidney.
	The problem is, they consider that an experimental procedure, although it's been around for over 10 years, and they won't pay for it.
	So, no insurance, huh?
	Exactly.
	They suggested to me that I have about $20,000 to $40,000 worth of bake sales and yard sales, and raise the money on my own.
	And I was thinking what you would think about something like that, since it seemed like it would benefit the medical insurances to go ahead and do the double transplant now, which would save money in the long run, because if I continue to be diabetic, I would just wear out another kidney.
	That's a good point.
	It doesn't make quite a lot of sense.
	The amount of money that diabetes in general eats up in medical bills.
	Must be a tremendous amount.
	Oh, incredible.
	It just kind of gnaws away at you bit by bit.
	This is the first major, major thing I've had to deal with, but I can look forward to more.
	Let me ask you the hard question.
	If you were given an opportunity to have a transplant from an animal as opposed to a human, what would your response be?
	That would be incredibly difficult, because I'm having a hard enough time with a human donor.
	Uh-huh.
	You know, getting past all that.
	Yes, but if they said, sorry, no human donors available, but we do have this experimental animal transplant organ for you, would you go for it, do you think?
	You know, I think it'd have to be really down to the wire.
	At this point, no.
	No.
	But if it were down to the wire?
	If it were down to the wire, I think I'd seriously consider it.
	That's called opting for life.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	You know, I'm going to be thinking about this interview with Claire Sylvia for some time.
	It really does provoke a lot of very profound questions about what we're doing and whether it's right or not.
	Anyway, we're going to break here at the bottom of the hour.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Don't need me this way. I can't survive, can't stay alive without your love. Oh baby, don't need me this way.
	Don't need me this way. I can't survive, can't stay alive without your love. Oh baby, don't need me this way.
	the the
	you're listening to work well on radio networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 21st, 1997.
	Good morning.
	We've got about a half hour to go.
	We still have time, we might still get by.
	Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
	The poems and the theater rooms and the kids keep coming.
	No way to breathe easy in a time to be young.
	Good morning from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Now we take you back to the night of July 21st, 1997 on Art Bell.
	There are a couple of the most amazing crop circles you've ever seen in your whole life on my website right now.
	We've got exclusive use of these images from England.
	A special deal with the crop circle connector.
	And they got us these very quickly.
	And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, if you can make your way to a computer, you've got to see these.
	And I want you to contemplate as you look at them several things.
	One, what you think they might mean.
	Two, whether you consider it even remotely possible that a human being could have done these.
	And I would like your input.
	I just got a fax from Ron in Birmingham, Alabama.
	And Ron is contemplating the Beijing wind-up radio.
	And he's wondering when they're going to come out with a wind-up fax machine.
	And that leads to all kinds of questions.
	What about a wind-up TV?
	Or a wind-up computer?
	Or a wind-up light?
	Ah, they are coming out with that.
	Soon, a wind-up flashlight.
	I probably wasn't supposed to tell you that, but it's coming.
	And one can imagine wind-up... Well, how about a wind-up microwave oven?
	Now, that'd be handy out there in the boondocks, wouldn't it?
	West of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Oh, I've got a lag here or something.
	Um, yeah, I'm happy to reach you.
	I want to tell you, I really enjoyed Dannion last night.
	Ah, thank you.
	And Claire tonight.
	Yes, very interesting.
	Oh, she's a gem.
	And I can see why she did so well.
	Yeah, so can I. But, you know, how about you?
	In other words, are you satisfied in your own mind That doing that is a good idea?
	Yes, yes.
	I'm not sure I am.
	I believe it is.
	I wanted to make a comment.
	You said something to the effect that you felt this was all strictly spiritual.
	No, not all.
	I said, you know, she quoted the very sorry statistics, the number of operations and the number of successes.
	And what I said is, if they were to pay more attention to the spiritual side, that they would have a much higher success rate.
	And I think that's probably true.
	Absolutely.
	And that ties in with the ad that you're doing on your station, too.
	But I'm referencing an earlier comment, much earlier in the interview, when I said something that you attributed to spiritual.
	But I wanted to bring up electromagnetic energy fields.
	Yes.
	That the healers are using.
	Oh, yes.
	And I think that science has a long way to go yet on really fully understanding that.
	Well, you're referring, thank you, to the hard sciences.
	In other words, electromagnetics.
	That's in the, even though it's not widely understood, it would come under the category of the hard sciences.
	And I certainly agree with you, we have a long way to go.
	I also believe that if we are to continue in this mode of transplanting major organs from one person to another, that we begin, we need to begin addressing the spiritual side of it and I think the outcome would be a lot more positive.
	But even having said that, I'm still not sure, I'm not sure it's right I'm just not sure.
	That's a terrible place to be in, to be unsure.
	On the other hand, I suppose if I were on my deathbed, given the opportunity to have more life, I'd go for it.
	That's probably an honest answer.
	I think I would, anyway.
	Now, faced with the option of an animal organ, I'm not as sure.
	And a lot of people who have called are not.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Charles from Maine.
	Hello, Charles from Maine.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing.
	I may have encountered a psychic the other day or something.
	You may have encountered a psychic?
	Yeah.
	See, I was walking along the street, and I met this girl.
	And I was talking to her for a few minutes.
	Yeah?
	And she said, right out of the blue, she said, Art Bell is cool.
	And I said, yeah, Art Bell rules.
	And she said, no, you don't understand.
	Art Bell is cool.
	And I said, yeah, like I said, yeah, I know.
	And she said, I want you to say Art Bell is cool.
	And I said, Art Bell is cool.
	And she said, okay, who is Art Bell?
	And I said, Well, Art Bell's more famous than Elvis, and she wouldn't say anything more about it, and I have no idea how she knew I listened to Art Bell or anything.
	I never met her.
	Well, you know what I'd do if I were you?
	What?
	You got a window there, right?
	Yes.
	I'd check and be sure that nobody's looking in.
	Yeah, it's on the second floor.
	And I get some shades, but I do have a fan normally in the window.
	Well, it's a very small movement from where you've already been with this young lady to the next stage.
	Yeah.
	Which is when she'll start bringing you meals and gifts.
	And maybe some absolutely fresh flowers.
	Something like that.
	That's right.
	Anything could happen now.
	And as I said, I would check your window.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	I'm 16 years old.
	I heard your show last night, the replay of Danyon.
	That was a really, really good show.
	Yes, it was.
	About the whole animal thing, taking, you know, parts from animals and putting them into people.
	Right.
	I feel strongly against that, just because I don't think it's right to take the life of an animal over that.
	You know, I'm a vegetarian myself, and I don't think it's right, just because of my religious kind of beliefs.
	So you would refuse it?
	Yeah, I would.
	On your deathbed?
	On my deathbed.
	Well, I wish I could grow you old so you were about 60 and see if I would get the same answer.
	Yeah, you never know, but the way I feel right now anyway.
	What are you doing up at, what is it, about quarter to five there?
	Yeah, it's right around there.
	We had a storm out here, my clock's out.
	It must be about five, yeah.
	I'm listening to you, that's what I do.
	Every night about this time I work in the nights at Kroger.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	And thank you very much for the call from Tennessee.
	Early in the morning in Tennessee.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Well, good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	Pleasure to talk with you today.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, last Friday, I saw a most interesting show.
	There's, let's see, on the NBC network, a show called Friday Night.
	Yes.
	And a lady interviewing one of the shuttle astronauts.
	Yes.
	And they're on site taping a shuttle takeoff.
	And now the most fascinating sight about the shuttle takeoff was in the background up in the sky as the craft entered the atmosphere was a group of three white objects up behind the shuttle.
	And now was it something in their lens maybe?
	No, the shuttle passed right in front of these three circular objects and came right out underneath it.
	Did they comment?
	No comment on that.
	I don't even think they noticed it.
	Well, you know, there's an awful lot going on when there's a launch, and cameras are subject to all kinds of blooming and weird things that go on with that kind of light intensity.
	You would think so, but at the shuttle pass, right in front of us, three objects up in the sky, and it comes right out the other side.
	It wasn't something in the lens, there was a group of three objects, circular objects, up behind it.
	Now, the color of it was white, similar to what the moon would look like in a blue sky.
	I just found that most interesting.
	I was hoping you could find out more about it, maybe get a clip of it, and have Richard Hoagland look at it.
	Well, I'll see what I can do.
	All right?
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Again, though, there are all kinds of anomalies you get when you subject a video camera to very, very intense light.
	But, sounds interesting.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, Art.
	Yes.
	I'm calling from the east of the Rockies.
	My name is Matt.
	I'm calling from Madison, Wisconsin.
	Okay.
	I have a comment about the first thing that, or your last guest rather, about the rejection that she's experiencing now.
	Not exactly rejection.
	Okay.
	She's experiencing some side effects from the rejection drug she's taking.
	Okay, well, I was going to say that if it actually was rejection, that with the organs of a teenage male, she'll get over it and it'll be fine eventually.
	Secondly, the woman who spoke about her medical problems just a second ago, I had an aunt who had breast cancer and the doctors at the University of Minnesota Um, told her that her best treatment option was an autologous bone marrow transplant, which at that time was experimental.
	Right.
	And her insurance company, which I won't mention.
	Would not go along.
	Yeah, they wouldn't go along with it.
	And um, she fought it in court.
	Um, and she won.
	So maybe that woman should just look at those options with her insurance company.
	That's good advice.
	It was local court.
	And also, the area that I'm from, um, I've heard about your book, The Quickening.
	Yes.
	It's interesting to hear someone with environmental concerns on a talk show specifically.
	The area in which I'm from is southwest Minnesota.
	How can people, you know, people without environmental concerns, they're the ones I don't understand.
	If you look at our air, you look at our water, you look at the changing weather patterns, you look at the UV situation, which is very well documented.
	If you don't have environmental concerns, I don't know about you.
	I don't know either.
	I mean, you know what, if what we're really doing on Mars is trying to colonize it, that's That's not right.
	We should preserve this planet.
	But the thing that hurts me most about the area that I'm from is that it's a very agricultural area.
	And nowadays there are large companies coming in and taking over the hog industry.
	And they're building huge containment houses and house these hogs in when they give them antibiotics and steroids.
	And a worker cannot even enter those pens without a special suit.
	And showering before and after leaving.
	And these things break.
	And you may have heard the stories about the manure leaking into various streams and killing hundreds of thousands of fish.
	I have heard about it, yes.
	You know, it's just, you know.
	I haven't heard the quickening yet, and I plan to when it comes out.
	It'll be in bookstores generally late August, thank you, or early September, and I do recommend it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, hello, hello.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you?
	I'm okay.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Austin, Texas.
	This is Terry.
	Yes.
	I'm just calling because I'm listening to you on the radio, and it's sounding different on the radio than it sounds on the telephone.
	That's why people have to turn their radios off.
	You're right.
	I was listening to it on headphones.
	Anyway, I'm a kidney pancreas transplant patient, and I just got home from having some corrective surgery done this week.
	I was intending on turning you on about a half an hour ago and I missed it up until about the last ten minutes.
	Oh my!
	We interviewed Claire Sylvia for two hours.
	Yeah.
	She was a recipient of two lungs and a heart.
	It's absolutely amazing.
	I tell you, I have been a diabetic since I was a child.
	It was my diabetes that took my kidneys.
	I work for a major electronics corporation and had a real hard time getting the insurance to clear Giving me a kidney and a pancreas both.
	I really had to fight it long and hard and finally just the log jam broke free and two years ago I went in and got both.
	How old are you?
	I just turned 40.
	So you must have been a prime candidate at that age.
	Yeah and I was really lucky I had a really easy blood type.
	I got a match in a year.
	But just this last week I met a gentleman who has been on a waiting list for five years.
	My, my.
	Had a difficult blood.
	And you understand it's not just the blood type that you have to match.
	There's a lot of different sub-levels that you have to match as well.
	Right.
	So you don't just get type O and type O and you're okay.
	Alright.
	Have you noticed any unusual results since the transplant?
	I have not, although I have spoken with a lot of people, obviously going to clinic.
	When you're in recovery, you have to stay close to the physicians and the surgeons for quite a while.
	Sure.
	And being in clinic, I have talked to a lot of different people in the waiting room, and people who have had heart transplants, oddly enough, are the ones that come up with the unusual craving.
	So, for example, if I never craved radishes before, I might start craving radishes.
	And there's this theory among the transplant patients, and I've never found it documented anywhere, that you take on the cravings of the donor.
	Yeah, oh yes.
	That's exactly what happened to Claire.
	As a matter of fact, it went beyond that.
	She dreamed the name of her donor.
	Ah, so I didn't miss an incredible show.
	Oh, yes.
	Yes, yes.
	And it kind of stops me a little bit.
	In other words, I understand that these organs save lives.
	Yes.
	I guess I'm a little unsure about whether or not it's right.
	I guess you wouldn't have any such reservation.
	Well, sure I do.
	Sure I do.
	And I was raised in a very conservative Christian home.
	It brought a totally different meaning to me about having someone die for you.
	You understand what I'm saying?
	Yes.
	I could have had a living donor give me a kidney, but in order to resolve my diabetes, I had to have a cadaveric donor, which meant someone had to die.
	And that's something that you really wrestle with, because you don't ever want to be in a position, whether you're sitting on a dialysis machine or you're sitting on a heart machine, that you're wishing that someone would die.
	That's a very difficult position.
	I never thought about that.
	Yeah.
	That's kind of what it comes down to, isn't it?
	You're wishing for the organ, therefore you're wishing... Someone would die.
	And in reality, and this is the part we have to come to grips with, people do die.
	People do die.
	You're going to die, Art, so am I. It's the one thing we don't escape, is we will die.
	If I had not been born a diabetic, if I had been healthy and my organs were available, I would rather have them provide life for someone else.
	I met twins this past year and one of them had received a kidney from the same donor that gave the liver to Mickey Mantle.
	That donor provided eyes, lungs, heart.
	There were so many people that were I think I would have to have a little more of a track record.
	Yes.
	And it was a decision that that donor made before he died that my organs can go to help
	people's lives.
	All right.
	The hard question then for you two.
	If it had really come down to it and there had not been a human organ available but had
	been an animal organ available, what do you think you would have done?
	I think I would have to have a little more of a track record.
	I think I'm a little uneasy.
	I don't think that I would be 100% against it if there was more of a track record, if
	there was more information.
	Now, on the other hand, depending upon how critical my situation was, I might actually say, okay, hey, go ahead, use me as a test.
	It's worth a try, huh?
	It's worth a try because really what do I have to lose?
	That depends on how you think about all of this.
	In other words, you might have something to lose.
	I just don't know.
	Interviewing this woman, I wish you had heard the whole thing.
	I do too.
	But it's really put me into a deep thought about the efficacy of the whole idea.
	And I guess it's okay.
	And I guess I would do it.
	But I'm just not convinced absolutely it's the right thing.
	Well, there's something else that I really wanted to say, too.
	You've had a couple of callers in the last few minutes talking about the spiritual connection.
	Sure.
	You are dead on the money.
	You are dead on the money.
	I don't know if you've ever heard, or I'm sure you have heard or read anything by Dr. Bernie Siegel.
	I am an avid follower and fan of Bernie Siegel.
	Which, and he basically says what?
	Well, he's been a real pioneer in the field of cancer.
	But he is one of the leaders in the realm of the mind-body connection.
	That whenever we decided to separate the mind from the body, we really made a mistake in how we were treating people.
	And that the mind and the body and the spirit, especially, that you've got to have all of that connected.
	Well, it sounds to me like the most successful transplants are the ones that have taken that into account.
	Absolutely.
	And it's been proven over and over and over and over.
	All right.
	I surely appreciate your call.
	My program is coming to a dead end here.
	I've got to abide by the clock, so you're going to get the honors.
	Unbelievable!
	Yes, from Austin, Texas, to the rest of the universe.
	Good night.
	Excellent.
	Thank you very much.
	Tomorrow night, folks, Leonard Nimoy at the beginning of the program.
	It's going to be a very... will continue to be a very interesting week.

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