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July 18, 1997 - Art Bell

02:53:23

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dannion Brinkley - NDE's

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45:22

dannion brinkley

01:35:24

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Ark Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these many prolific time zones.
		From the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains, in the west, east all the way to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole and worldwide on ye old internet, this is Coast Coast AM.
		Top of the morning, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		What do you suppose it would be like to die?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you suppose it would be like to die, only not quite go on, as we all imagine you might, to one's final reward, whatever that might be.
		I suppose having earned it one way or the other while you were here.
		Now coming up as a man who has done that, only came back actually twice.
		And the medical records all support that fact.
		His name is Danion Brinkley.
		He's a good friend.
		He's back in the country and bouncing around as he always does.
		Danion does a lot of geographic hopping.
		But we've got him pinned down at least for this night in Charleston, South Carolina.
		And so we'll talk with Danion about many, many things.
		What it's like to die, come back, what it's like to have visions, what they mean.
		Egypt, we'll touch on Egypt and many other things.
		All of it coming up.
		Oh, by the way, coming Tuesday evening, Mr. Spock, Star Trek, Leonard D. Moy.
		It's funny.
		We were talking the other day about the fact that if you had to be stuck with a role, boy, Mr. Spock is a role to have.
		Anyway, we'll talk to him about that.
		And he's somebody I have admired and watched since I was small.
unidentified		Burps
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of July 18th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, about to get underway.
		One special visitation.
		My very own wife, Ramona, happens to be down in Southern California.
		Visiting with her family, my in-laws, and I want to let her say hello from Southern California.
		By cellular at that, here she is.
		Hi, Ann.
		Hello there.
		Oh, wait a minute.
		Have I pushed the button?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me get it right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There, now you're on the air.
unidentified		You know, you are never any better doing this with me than you are with anybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		I'm fine, baby.
unidentified		Mom's getting ready to count everything in my bathroom right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Trey, right now we have my brother Rodney, who is on leave right now from the service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who happens to be a fellow who spends his time in nuclear submarines.
unidentified		That's right.
		He's on the USS Wyoming.
		Hold on.
		Here you go.
		Say hi, Rodney.
		Hi, Rodney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Rodney.
unidentified		And here is my soon-to-be sister-in-law, Risa.
		Say hi, Risa.
		Hello, Lolo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Risa.
unidentified		And here is my brother, Andy.
		Hello.
		Hi, there.
		And if you're still there, here's my mommy.
		And yes, I am the mother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Julie.
unidentified		And my sister, who abandoned us all and went into the bathroom.
		And we're all sitting here right now.
		We just got done having dinner.
		And we all raised a ruckus down in the restaurant, so they threw us out.
		They threw us out of the lounge.
		And now here we are up in my room saying, hello, baby, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am just fine.
unidentified		Well, I'm glad.
		You know, you know, I'll be home at 12.30 tomorrow afternoon.
		All right.
		And I know that you have Danion on tonight, and I welcome Danion very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say hi, Danion.
unidentified		Hello, Danion.
unidentified		How are you, darling?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ramona.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		I'm fine, sweetheart.
		That's for awful clear sell your communications link there.
		Well, you know, that's because the husband picked out the phone.
		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I care about phones.
		All right, baby.
		See you tomorrow afternoon.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		All right, sweetie.
unidentified		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love you too, and bye.
		There you go.
		That's my wife down in Southern California, Daniel.
		Daniel Brinkley.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You're an awful lucky man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
		I know.
		I know.
		In fact, we're going to talk a little bit about that.
		But before we get into it, Daniel, let's catch the world up on who you are.
		You know, because not everybody in my audience knows.
		We've got so many new affiliates.
		This thing grows like an out-of-control weed.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because you do such a good job of letting people who are of the night know what's going on and make their own decisions.
		You know, I'm one of these people who are listening to this radio show.
		I just happen to be stupid enough to be talking on the phone in South Carolina doing a thunderstorm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's not one going on now, is there?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, we would be having this conversation if there was one going on now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good question, Daniel.
		Do you stay clear of phones during all thunderstorms?
		Absolutely.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I've learned my lesson about it.
		You know, when you start out art, I never had any inkling toward anything mystical or all the stuff that's on coast-to-coast or dreamland.
		I'm a guy from South Carolina.
		I will be 47 years old on Sunday.
		And when I think back to look how long when you look at your birthday and realize that 21 years ago this September, I was minding my own business, being a complete jerk like I'd spent my entire life, you know, always thinking I knew it all.
		And I decided to talk on the telephone and it was thundering and I decided...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're moving too fast.
		You said you were a complete jerk.
		You were in the service.
		You were a bad guy.
		I once asked you, and you told me, you had to kill some people, huh?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, war dictates that kind of stuff, like a lot of us.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You try to put that out of your mind, but nonetheless, that's what you did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess what I mean is you weren't, it was not in a regular combat situation for you, was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, where people were shooting at you and that sort of thing.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the element of surprise art is always good in warfare.
		And I was fighting a type of war, what we call covert wars.
		The secret wars or the wars that held countries together or kept them apart by fighting proxy wars.
		You know, a product of growing up and being born in 1950, that a lot of guys came home from the war, World War II, who just wanted to be people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel, were you an assassin?
		Is that a stronger word, or is it...
		Fair enough.
		So anyway, you had to do some...
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And yes, it included the fact that someone lived or someone died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How well do you remember the other side of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when someone died, how much thought do you give that ahead of time, or do you just respond to your training and do what you did?
unidentified		So you plan it out just like you would do anything.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You would plan it.
		And you would get your part in whatever the mission was, and it was planned well, and then you compartmentalized what you were supposed to do, and you kept that in focus, and you got your part done.
		I just happened to live long enough to figure out some of the stuff I did that didn't know at the time that that's what I was doing.
		But I learned about it years later because I kept surviving.
		I think that was the major issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any reflections at the time?
		You know, obviously when you're doing something in the military, you just do it.
		I mean, you're trained to do it, so you do what you do.
		But I mean, afterward, any thoughts about having taken life?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Never thought about it like that.
		I always looked at it as them or me, and I was stemming the red tide or enforcing the Monroe Doctrine or protecting mom and apple pie and baseball.
		And I thought in the early parts of what I was doing, because I started as a kid at 19, and by the time I came to my senses, I was like 25 years old.
		So that doesn't make me a rocket scientist.
		But I lived in that mentality, the continuous siege mentality and the soldier mentality and the macho mentality.
		And that consumed my whole world.
		I mean, it's what I did and where I lived.
		And I lived both one life and then a quieter life.
		And it wasn't quieter, but it was unknown.
		And there were a lot of us that did that.
		A lot of people came from the Vietnam era that felt unsatisfied in the fact that we lost a war and who knew so much about what was going on that we felt we had to keep reproving ourselves.
		So we got bolder and bolder, and we created the world of covert activity.
		now it's such a dominant part that we've accepted that this way of life is supposedly the best way to protect the quality of life that we live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, reflecting for a second on Vietnam, we lost the war not because we couldn't win it, because we didn't have the will to.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		What were we fighting for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, these are all questions, worthy questions.
		But I mean, once you're in a war, it's my feeling that you either win the damn thing and do what you have to do to win it.
		A war isn't a partial game.
		It's not a part game.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Amen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you get the hell out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the two.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Or you be the best you can and figure out how to stop them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I remember very well the president at the time, Johnson, who I thought and still think is a criminal, was a criminal.
		This man concocted missions and sent people into situations in a limited war.
		You know, war with rules.
		That's bull, Daniel.
		War doesn't have rules.
		If you're going to get into it, you go into it and kill the other guy, period.
		Until he gives up, until you win.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's how I thought it.
		I mean, I think a lot of the frustration from a lot of us, I mean, from everything that we went through in that era, and watching so much of what it was only petty little wars among almost governments, not so much as a spiritual cause or a deeply emotional or patriotic cause, I think it became very diluted toward the end.
		And after the fall of Saigon, it was even worse and become worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just tend to look at things differently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were involved in it and you saw friends who got killed because they went to fight in less than a full fight, oh, it builds anger and a lot of it in me.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I can understand and appreciate it very much, my kind friend.
		I can understand it very much.
		And I see one of those coming again.
		Bosnia comes again.
		I mean, the whole deal from the whole issue of where Bosnia and Sarajevo and all that, here it comes again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they think that when they leave, meaning us, they as us, that it's not going to take up where it left off, they, we, are out of our minds.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's doing that now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's what's going to happen.
		One thing that I really love about the Art Bell Show is the more informed a person is, regardless of whether it's lunacy to complete sanity, the more informed that we are, the better we're able to make informed decisions.
		And that's what will stop the war.
		I mean, that's what will keep it contained in a place where we don't commit.
		We have to keep a spiritual focus in guarding the world, but we have to be very careful about what we waste human life for.
		And here it comes again.
		I mean, it's like the 20s have recreated themselves in a molding into where Bosnia and all those issues are.
		That molds itself in a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't like to seem negative, but hard as Vietnam was, in a lot of ways, in this country now, socially, life, human life, is worth less in the coin of the realm than it ever was.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's more of us also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, people take life without a thought.
		You know, I've got a favorite example.
		It used to be in America, Daniel, that when somebody would rob a 7-Eleven, they'd go in, you know, and I love this example, and they'd hold a gun on a guy and say, give me your cash, and back out the back door and take off.
		Now, the guy goes into the store, says, give me your cash.
		The guy gives the cash, and as a second afterthought, the robber puts a bullet through his head, then runs away.
		Something's changed.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, a lot of things are changing in the cultural, social sense.
		But I think, you know, when you bottom out, we hit a place where we're having to really decide what the value of our spiritual self is.
		And I think there's a lot of things that are going on.
		I think a lot of it is inequities, too.
		You know, like we're both in that age group where we look at life now with a little maturity to us, and we realize that a lot of the things we've heard, when I listen to rap music, I've listened to a cultural disparity, and I don't know what the true cause of it is.
		But you see where people really don't have a value of themselves.
		That's what creates so much of that lack of concern or care for life or the value of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Danyan, I'm always trying to understand whether it's my getting older.
		And it might be.
		I remember when I was 12 or so, 13, I'd be listening to music that I considered to be superb, which are now oldies but goodies.
		But my dad would come in and say, how can you listen to that?
		That's not music.
		That's not a tune.
		There's nothing musical about that.
		He'd shake his head and walk away, very much the way I do with the music today, a lot of the music today.
		So are you sure?
		What do you think?
		Is it that we might be getting older?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, each generation reflects in its own understanding.
		When I listen to the music, I mean, I don't particularly like it, but when you sell millions and millions and millions of albums of gangster rap and this kind of music, you're expressing something of the youth.
		And when I listen to it, I listen to guys that feel like there's no way out, that people who are trapped in a system that have lost their spirituality or the identity and the spiritual nature of themselves as opposed to living in everyday urban situations.
		You know, one of the most wonderful comments in The Quickening was about you talking about what's going to happen with the urban Russian population in the next 20 years.
		And it was one of the coolest things that it was in the book because it started making really clear sense what's happening.
		You either have the Rust Belt, which is losing its industrial base, and because we moved toward a technological base, and then you have those cities that are growing so thick with people and more and more people, then what we're seeing is like a more and more thought about the value of life in space.
		In Brazil, they were riding around paying policemen to shoot children 6 and 12 and under because they were messing with tourism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the street children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're still doing that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and so when you start thinking, that won't hold up.
		There is a part of us that I learned about having two near-death experiences.
		You know, like where we started out, I've never dealt with the things that I deal with now because once you go through a near-death experience talking on the telephone, struck by lightning, I'm 25 years old.
		I don't care anything about spirituality.
		I'm not interested in it.
		I'm interested in the 7.62 millimeter gas operated Chunstead shoulder weapon and how fast I could move with it, what ground I could cover with it, and how I could get away with it and get home and try to be as cool as I could possibly be with no one know it was me that done it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were you doing in 25?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were out of the service, huh?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what were you doing?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		But not very far out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, were you in business?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had you gone into the private sector?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I was in business.
		I mean, I worked, and I was in a family business, and I had an antique car business, and all the things that they would create to create covers for you.
		And you just tended business.
		You never knew one month to another month what it would be, but you just did your part, and they paid you your money, and you came on and went on about your business.
		It wasn't something every day, but it was going on all the time because I ended up working in Central and South America.
		And that would be because I could leave quickly from this area, get there, and get back in a matter of time that would not be so obvious.
		And, you know, the government intertwines with so much other stuff.
		And so I'd been in Nicaragua because they knew the Anastasia-Samoshi regime was going to collapse.
		And so what we do is send a team in and you would determine how to destroy the economic and social base, train railroad systems, power systems.
		Because then you create a civil war, and from that civil war, you can put a junta in or you can go in to stabilize the Americas under the Monroe Doctrine like we did in Nicaragua, dealing with the Sandinistans were communist.
		And we would go in, and I've been down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious.
		We rarely talk of such things, but I debated my way through those times on the air, Daniel.
		What was your view with regard to the Sandinistas?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I thought they were just farmers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just farmers?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I didn't see...
		It was worse than the Nam.
		You couldn't find an enemy.
		They were farmers.
		It was strange.
		I was getting pretty deluded by then.
		But I couldn't find an enemy.
		There was not an enemy in that.
		We had created something because we wanted to keep a regime in power.
		And these were people who had grown to a certain level of maturity from the natives and the Indian population to they had demanded their rights.
		And the old colonial powers were not going to let that happen.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my political views on that Aside for a second, if you thought that at the time, Daniel, how were you able to do what you did?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It was hard, but I had begun to pull myself away from it.
		I mean, it was amazing as I look now back at 47 years, and this is over 21 years ago.
		I mean, I was 25 years old, it's 21 years ago.
		I can think now at those moments on that way home and what went through my mind as I was coming home, which was I'd been home two days when I got struck by lightning.
		I'd been gone like eight days, and then I'd come home for two days.
		And I was going trying to get all my business of everyday life back in order after I'd done the surveys of what I was supposed to do and what the team was going to go back.
		If I had to plan to do that, if I was going to be a part of that.
		And I was going through my mind, just thinking about all those things when I got home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's exactly what we're going to talk about next.
		So hang tight.
		Bottom of the hour is here.
		My guest is Daniel Brinkley.
		I guarantee you, you're going to be fascinated.
		What's coming is one of the most amazing stories that you've ever heard.
		I mean, if you're at all curious about what happens when you die, then stick around.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Holy foolish falling in love.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to be here.
		Daniel Brinkley is my guest, and you're about to take a trip.
		He'll take you on it.
		So sit down, buckle in, and get ready.
unidentified		should be interesting Now we take you back to the night of July 18th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A sad note for you to hear, Alice Springs, Australia, CNN is reporting that a geologist Eugene Shoemaker, who helped discover the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet that crashed into Jupiter three years ago in a most spectacular way, was killed Friday in an automobile accident, according to Sky and Telescope magazine.
		The couple had been in Australia for two weeks on an annual trip to search for asteroid impact craters in the Outback.
		And he has met with his death in an automobile accident.
		Very sad.
		And I've got one other item.
		As you know, there have been UFO sightings recently in Oregon.
		And I am not going to identify the person unless they want to be identified.
		But I have a report here from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		You remember I told you I was joking about objects hovering above my network headquarters?
		Well, one of our employees there, there are many, there are about 40 there, saw a UFO herself and reported it to the National UFO Reporting Center.
		And if she wants to say anything about it, I'll let her do it.
		Otherwise, I certainly will not identify her.
		But there are some interesting things going on in Oregon.
		And I think it's less than coincidental that there are crop circles beginning to show up in the area as well.
		Just something for you to note.
		Back now to Charleston, South Carolina, a very famous old American city.
		And Daniel Brinkley.
		Daniel, hi.
		Hi, Art.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's one of the greatest, oldest, old cities in America.
unidentified		Yes.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's an absolutely wonderful place to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Daniel, let's talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were on the phone one day, just chatting with a friend or something?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to say one other thing, Art.
		I think that the era that began in 75 and all the things that were going on, I think that in the near future there will be a lot of amazing revelations that will come from those early days of where covert activities.
		And I think when people start really taking a good look at the NSA and the things that came out under the Reagan administration and the early forerunners of what they call archer teams and all of that kind of stuff will help better explain what was really going on in that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I frankly though kind of wonder if it's really any different today than it was then.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's worse today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it probably is.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like it's become an established fiefdom.
		Before it wasn't that, it was as we made inroads to control certain governments and aspects of governments and banking and collapses of banks and SNL stuff.
		I've watched a lot of that through the years that I saw the early days of its development, but I never could put that together because I didn't have that much sense.
		But I think that we're going to learn a lot in the next couple of years because people are beginning to talk who had never spoken before.
		So I wanted to add that.
		But after I came home, I was going over all those stuff in my mind, like this birthday now, as I look at being 47 years old.
		And I really wasn't concerned except for doing a good job and getting paid for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, your birthday on the 20th Sunday, happy birthday, Daniel.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		It is very amazing I got this far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I feel the same way sometimes about myself.
		But listen, that's an important day.
		The 20th is a very interesting day.
		It could be a day when things will occur.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Full moon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was thinking about if I'd have known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
		And then I realized I didn't live this long.
		So I feel pretty good that I got this far.
		But I was talking on the telephone with no idea, never heard of what the near-death experience was.
		None of that stuff.
		I mean, none of the things that you talk about would I have given the time of day.
		And all of a sudden, I'm talking to a friend, and I hear thunder, like any September in the dog days in the South.
		And all of a sudden, I heard the thunder in the distance, and I said, I need to get off the phone.
		And we talked a couple minutes, and I heard it again coming this way, and I said, I have to go.
		I never realized what I meant when I said that.
		I'm sitting on the edge of the bed in the bedroom.
		I'm talking on the phone, and all of a sudden, I'm hit in the neck by a bolt of lightning, because it had come down the phone line.
		It knocked me out of my shoes.
		Well, the nails in the heels of my shoes to the nails in the floor.
		It knocked me in the air.
		It suspended me in the air.
		It blew me back down and bent the bed frame.
		And I was burning and I'm on fire.
		And just an idea of what the impact of that was.
		But I was dead for a little more than 28 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were on fire?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was like drinking battery acid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel, who was there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was somebody there?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my wife was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your wife was there.
		She saw it happen.
		She heard it happen?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but she turned down the hall, and I can remember her saying it was a close one, and she looked down the hall and saw me sprout across the bed.
		And I'm burning, I'm on fire, and I can't move.
		And I don't know what has happened.
		I never thought about lightning.
		You know, I thought it was C3 or C4 or Semtex or some type of rocket grenade.
		And that's the whole mindset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can imagine that that's what you would have thought.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I didn't think about being struck by lightning.
		I figured it was my time.
		And someone had come to do to me what many times I had gone to set up or be a part of, and I could accept it.
		And then the pain was so severe, I couldn't move.
		Think about dead for 20, no pulse, no respiration, and not breathing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your wife obviously calls 911.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, Tommy, the guy on the other end of the phone, he came over, he heard the explosion.
		The phone wasn't working.
		And he came over.
		He was a corpsman in the Navy.
		And she and he were working on me, and he saw that I wasn't breathing.
		And he sent her to call next door to call the paramedics.
		But in the course of this, this is what starts the experience that now has led Daniel Brimple for 21 years, a whole new different way he looks at life.
		As I was burning it on fire, the first thing I thought after I gathered my senses of where I was, I couldn't move.
		I mean, you're talking dead for 28 minutes.
		I was completely paralyzed for six days and partially paralyzed for seven months.
		It took me two years to learn to walk and feed myself, and I lost more than 50 pounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the medical records are very complete on all of this.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I mean, it happened in a medical university.
		It's not like it's some big, you know, it's not a difficult situation when medical records are like big stacks of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Normally, if a person is dead for 28 minutes, they're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, your brain begins to starve, and pretty soon you don't have a brain.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I didn't have much of a brain to start with, Arthur, so I didn't have far to go in that particular issue.
		But what I did learn, what I learned was probably the greatest lesson anyone will ever learn.
		And I don't know if it was worth it, but it still happened to me.
		I'd never heard of the near-death experience.
		I'm burning and I'm on fire.
		The first thing I think about is I stabilized myself.
		I couldn't move.
		I couldn't see.
		I started thinking about Sandy and if she was going to be okay because I couldn't protect her.
		And my whole mindset is that militarized war mentality, the siege mentality, and how to dig in and where my perimeters are and which way to move and how to get to protect her.
		When I couldn't protect her, it was more than I could handle.
		Then all of a sudden I was in this blue-gray place and I'm floating.
		I roll over and I see myself lying across the bed.
		I see Sandy come in and start to work on me.
		Tawny come over immediately.
		It was raining by then.
		And I watch this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop for a second, Danny, and explain to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said I'm in a blue-gray place and yet you're still in the room.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm still in the room.
		I'm in a place that I did not recognize because I had nothing to draw from.
		I had no background whatsoever to draw from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you put words to it?
		I mean, how are you in a blue-gray place but still in the same room?
		Can you make words that will help us visualize that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, I didn't know that I was still in the room.
		My mindset was still wherever I was, it was more comfortable than the place that I had been because I wasn't burning.
		I had some movement, and there was a ton of peaceful place around me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like you were detached.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I was detached, but I wasn't aware of that until I would appeared to be have rolled over, you know, like I was floating on my back.
		And then I roll over and I see myself lying across the bed.
		And I'm still amazed at what's happening.
		I have no way to grip it.
		I feel pretty good about it.
		I never thought I was dead.
		My mind was just studying, like one step removed from everything that was going on.
		I'm analyzing and looking at it.
		I'm watching them work on me, and yet it's never taken into consideration.
		I'll show you how dumb I am, Art.
		As I was watching Tommy and Sandy work on me, what was amazing to me was I could see that they had like energy fields around them.
		I'd never heard of auras or anything like that, and I would have never believed it if anybody had told me.
		I wouldn't have believed it.
		You couldn't have gotten me to believe it.
		But as I was watching them, they had fields of colors around them, and every word and every emotion appeared as a reflection of these colors that moved about eight or nine inches from their bodies.
		And I looked at myself and I thought to myself, why didn't I have one of these color fields around me of energy and color fields around me?
		Not knowing that the color field is what symbolizes the spiritual body, I didn't have sense enough to think that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you said you saw an aura about them.
		Again, I'm trying to visualize what you actually saw.
		Did you see?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Imagine multicolors.
		Imagine a person that you're standing in front of a Christmas tree.
		You know how a Christmas tree has those little wheel lights that if you have a silver Christmas tree, it has this light that goes around and it has different colors that turns the color of the Christmas tree?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Imagine you standing in front of that, but with a beautiful kind of glow about you.
		And you standing in front of that and these colors are pulsating around you and flowing around you.
		And you realize that they're flowing around you, dealing with the emotions more so than anything about the person, that they're emotionally reacting to the situation of one seeing her husband, the other seeing his friend.
		Of course.
		And then the interaction between the two of them, it was beautiful is what it was.
		It was beautiful colors and hues and I almost say tones, but I didn't hear anything.
		But I could see that there was a rhythm to them and it would emanate in their thoughts, emotions, some happy, some sad, some points, some thoughts.
		And it was really terrific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all of this was occurring in complete silence with understanding.
		In other words, you saw what was going on.
		You understood what was going on.
		You didn't need to hear words and you didn't hear any words.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, when they were talking, it was more important that I looked at the colors and the blending of the colors and I could feel their emotional states more so than any of the conversation.
		And I think if I would have listened to the conversation, I would have realized that they had realized that I was dead.
		But I wasn't even thinking about that because I was feeling pretty good.
		I was safe.
		I could watch this event with more clarity than anything I'd ever seen before.
		And I was seeing what a person really looks like, who we really are.
		And these are the early moments of this first experience.
		I could see who we were.
		We're more spiritual in our dynamic than we are in physical and mental.
		And these bodies that I was seeing, the physical body that we now have, that we seem to have in our peripheral vision, have cut ourselves off from seeing the greater body that we truly are and that we truly have.
		And I'm watching this, really amazed by our art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I watched them call the paramedics, and I was, I think not enjoying it, but amazed that so much was going on and I could understand things a lot better, still never thinking that I was dead.
		I watched them load me in an ambulance, and I was too busy exploring what was inside of an ambulance since I'd never been in one before, more so than this guy, this EMS guy, really having himself a good time.
		You know, firemen and policemen and paramedics, God bless them.
		But they really enjoy their work, and they get into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And this guy was having a great time trying to resuscitate me.
		He was pounding and working and pushing and talking to himself.
		But I was paying attention to what was in this ambulance.
		I mean, there was more important things than whatever he was doing.
		And I hear the guy say he's gone.
		And I look over his shoulder.
		And, you know, I tell this all the time, but it's still what happened.
		I remember looking over his shoulder and looking down at myself and thinking to myself that I thought I was a much better looking guy than that.
unidentified		And when you think that, but that's true, Arn, you know, people laugh at me.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		But it was me coming to grips and my mentality coming to grips with the fact that I was separate from this body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, Daniel, you were having a bad hair day.
		You couldn't have looked that good.
		You were on fire.
		You just got hit by lightning.
		You were dead.
		It was your best moment.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm telling you, but that's my mindset.
		I look at it.
		I said, whoa, boy.
		I always thought I was a better looking guy.
		Because my hair was burned.
		My eyebrows were burned.
		My fingernails, all the hair was burnt off my arms.
		And people who know about electrical discharges know it follows wherever moisture is.
		So I had these blue lines all down me, all over my neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be exactly right.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And then this tunnel, I began to pull away from this whole event.
		They keep rushing on to the hospital.
		But I move into a tunnel, a tunnel that was moving whether I was moving or not, that had an essence to it and a nature to it, but it was peaceful.
		It was truly, truly peaceful.
		And I start moving down this tunnel, and I was comfortable with it.
		You know, people, when you think about all the things that we go through being afraid of death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask a dumb question?
		At this point, Daniel, do you remember sensory things?
		In other words, for example, do you remember, did you have a body?
		Did you have a body you could examine or see?
		Did you see your hands?
		Did you see any part of your physical, what seemed to be a physical body?
		Or were you a pure spirit?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No, I had a body.
		When I moved down this tunnel, it became more defined than it was.
		I was mostly my mental self, but I had a body.
		Because when I came through this tunnel and I could see a light at the end of this tunnel, and I started coming through at the end of this tunnel, when I came into the place where I appeared to have stopped and I was like resting or just dwelling is the only word I can describe, I remember looking at my hands and seeing I had a body that appeared to be surrounded by light, but it was not as dense as the physical body, but it still was a body.
		I was still Daniel Brinkley.
		I didn't turn into an angel or anything like that.
		I was still Daniel Brinkley's mentality, but it was evolving.
		I could tell I was changing.
		When I looked at myself and I would focus on my hand, the light and the energy around it would tend to focus tighter.
		And when I let go, like to watch it move, it would move outward and blend with everything around me.
		But where I was was in this blue, silvery-white place, like in the early morning in a fog in New England.
		It looks like it's thick, but it's really not.
		It's like a gentle mist.
		And it had color to it, but not, you know, it was more silver and white.
		It didn't have multi-dimensional color.
		But one of the key things about it, Art, was I was comfortable.
		I was at peace.
		And wherever it was I was, I was happy to be there and content that this was a part of everything that was natural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you aware you were dead?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I started to begin to think that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's an obvious question, a layman's question.
		In other words, were you asking yourself, huh, this is really strange.
		I wonder if I'm dead.
		I mean, that's what you would think you would ask yourself if you were.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was pretty close to that.
		I was thinking about, is this what the end of life was like?
		Not so much dead because my mind was alive.
		I was too alive to be dead.
		But my mind started searching for an answer for it, but not from a fear-based, I mean, just a curiosity-based.
		You know what's so amazing about death is that it's a natural, orderly system, and it's filled with very comforting methods that you travel through.
		You know, after going through this the first time and going into this place of light and really realizing not as much then as I do now, but knowing that this is how we all leave this world.
		There is a very systematic nature that comes into play that takes us home, back to a place where we started from.
		We're not from here.
		We come from this other place.
unidentified		And as I watch all of this, I'm 25 years old.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I grew up in South Carolina.
		You know, I'm not like a rocket scientist.
		And my whole mindset's a whole different world.
		And all of a sudden, I'm dealing with a spiritual plane and a spiritual dynamic about myself.
		I think the most important part is this next part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you at this point disconnected from everything going on with your body?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't even know anything about it.
		I've heard the stories of what happened to my body.
		They took me to the hospital.
		They worked on me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but I mean, at that moment, you didn't know a thing about nor even care about your body.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't even interested.
		I not only didn't care where that body was, I wasn't even interested in it.
		And wherever it was, they could have it.
		But wherever I was now was the place I wanted to be, and it's a comforting place.
		This was a natural, you know, you don't really know what it all is, but inside of you, something knows it's the right way and the right part.
		Just like, you know, how you got up in the morning and you put your clothes on and you got on the bus and you went to school.
		It was the natural way that you ran through your day and you got on the bus and you came home.
		If you're like me, you went to work.
		And it was as natural and as wondrous as that was, but even more so because I was freer and I could move and I could conceive and it was just a different person evolving in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold the story right there.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Rest, relax if you can.
		I wonder how hard it is to relive all of this.
		The medical records are very clear and there were months and months of recovery.
		What you're hearing is a story of a man who died.
		I hope you're listening.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Music
		Got a black magic human got a black magic human extinction.
		I I see trees of green, red roses, too.
		I see them blue for me.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful blue and skies of white.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On a Friday night, Saturday morning, or perhaps Sunday night, Monday morning, if that's when you're hearing this, my guest is Daniel Grinkley.
		He's the real thing.
		He died and came back.
		Not too many of us have ever done that.
		So if you're curious about what happens when you die, keep listening.
unidentified		This is someone who knows.
		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit CoastofCoastAM.com to sign up.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 18th, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell For those of you who may be joining us, Daniel Brinkley is my guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was struck by lightning while on the phone.
		His shoes, the nails in his shoes were welded to the floor.
		He was thrown into the air and onto the bed, and his body was on fire, taken by ambulance to the hospital as they tried to resuscitate him, 27 minutes or 28 minutes.
unidentified		Dead.
unidentified		Dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Months and months in recovery.
		And we're kind of midway in the story, and at this point, he's in the ambulance observing more about the ambulance than the emergency medical technician trying to reanimate him.
		And that's where we kind of left off.
		And you were in a kind of a hazy place, but an okay place, looking around the ambulance.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was watching him work on me, but I was more interested in the stuff that was in an ambulance since I had never seen that kind of stuff before.
		So this was a truck instead of an ambulance.
		You know, when I grew up, an ambulance was either a Buick, a Cadillac, or an Osmobile, and it was the same automobile as a hearse, except it had lights on the front and back.
		This happened to be a truck, and it was the first time I'd ever seen an ambulance that was a truck with a shell on the back, and I was curious about that.
		What people are going to be amazed at is when you think what you've been taught by religions and institutions and governments, literally indoctrinated to believe that death comes or exists, when it never really does.
		The most disturbing thing about having a near-death experience is all of a sudden you realize that about 75% of everything you've ever been told is just some kind of crap.
		It was amazing after I came back in recovery, the things that I used to believe were so real, all of a sudden they didn't even matter because they were the furthest thing from the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of that's beginning to occur to me now as I get older anyway, but very slowly.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but also that you innovate.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Look what you're doing.
unidentified		You're allowing people to tell their stories and their issues.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'm sitting here turning 47 years old looking back at what happened to me 21 years ago and how I moved through that tunnel and how I came out into a place of bright, brilliant, beautiful light before there was Raymond Moody's book and before anyone really knew the commonalities within a near-death experience.
		But we all know now, after 15 million Americans and so much reports about it, that this is the natural way at which you leave this world.
		That's the key part of the whole message of Daniel Brinkley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, your consciousness was still there.
		I mean, if you're sitting there curious about, you know, looking at the ambulance, I might do that myself.
		I know the kind of ambulance you're talking about.
		That means that you had a full consciousness about you.
		You were expressing curiosity.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I was more conscious than art and in 1989 than I've ever been conscious in the 47 years I've been on this earth.
		I mean, I'm not exactly, I may not be a rocket scientist, which I'm sure I'm not, but I was alive more in what we call death than I ever was alive in what we call life.
		I always say I have a near-life experience because to realize that you will lift from your body and you are safe and protected and aware that it's a system, you're fully cognizant and you move down a tunnel, you go into a place of bright, brilliant, beautiful light.
		No matter what you think or who's telling you or what the minister said or what anybody else said, this is how you leave this world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One question.
		And that is, what happened to you physically is not in question.
		It's well documented.
		What you experienced, and you've told us about up until this moment, there are doctors, there are many doctors, who would say what you experienced was within your own brain,
		which was not really dead yet, that endorphins were releasing in huge amounts, that your body was going into a protective mode, you were shutting down, the tunnel is a function of the brain shutting down from the outside, moving toward the core, and that it was a pure physical experience, and you misinterpreted that as a spiritual experience.
		That's what a doctor might say, Daniel.
unidentified		That shows you how stupid he is.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I have no problems that there are endorphin releases and peptide bonds and neurals breaking down in the brain, that there's oxygen-brain deprivation, there's temporal lobe seizures, there's frontal lobe seizures, there's reactions to shock, reactions to medication, reactions to whenever a person's at that point of death, the resuscitation techniques.
		I don't have any problem that a lot of that stuff does occur, and a lot of times that people who describing near-death experiences have really experienced what they're talking about.
		I have no doubt that biological and neurological shutdown does occur in what happens in a near-death experience.
		But then you have to stop and think for a moment.
		That doctors and scientists, 73% of all scientists, believe that if you believe in God or a spiritual afterlife, you can't do good science.
		And 52% of all doctors don't believe in God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder why that is.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, because they themselves have become gods or they've been trapped in a system that is the institutionalized nature of medicine.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And then all of a sudden the art of healing became the business of medicine and now it's become the business of insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, Daniel, why can't you watch a comet slam into a planet and plot it and look at the stars and the planets and still believe there is a Creator?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is there a problem with that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think a lot of it is we lost a lot of faith in what we thought was the church in the early days because we found it to be fallible.
		As we grow older, we look at religious concepts and we look at all the dimensions that have been taught as to be established Christianity and Judaism and other religious concepts.
		We tend to see common threads in it, and then we have to depend on those who keep us alive.
		When we're looking at death as the controlling issue and not an afterlife but the fear of pain, then we create a whole new religion like the science of medicine.
		You know, first we had the science of spirituality which we defined as a church.
		And then we created a new God called science because we needed it.
		We couldn't have faith anymore so we had to have something explain it to us.
		And from science we created our new gods called doctors and the systems of managed care.
		I mean what I learned from the near-death experience is first it doesn't happen.
		Number two, what most people tell us goes on from a religious concept doesn't happen.
		You will move down a tunnel.
		You will come into a place of life.
		A lot of people are met by friends and relatives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, to let you know what kind of person I was growing up.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I've been over there twice and no relatives come to meet me yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		So I can easily understand how where I started from that that didn't happen to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No relatives came to meet you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did anybody come to meet you or any presence or what did you encounter?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I encountered a being of light.
		I think what I'm about to say is the single most important point of the near-death experience.
		When I came into this place, this misty blue, not blue, silver place, I was safe and comfortable.
		A being moved toward me, and I mean a being of bright, brilliant light.
		I've heard people say Muhammad and Allah and Buddha and Moses and Jesus.
		I mean, I've heard every description.
		But the system is the same.
		The methodology is the same.
		As this being moved closer to me, I was in awe of it.
		I could feel a love and a comfort that was like when my mom would pick me up as a kid.
		And I would come so far away from that place and how I'd lived the last 20 years of my life, starting about seven, you know, the last 18 years of my life, to this event.
		And that safe, protected, calm place.
		You know, I write a lot about it in Save by the Light, more in-depth about it.
		But when I came into this place and this being moved closer toward me, all of a sudden I started to feel all kinds of emotions.
		Then I had a panoramic life review, literally seeing everything that I'd ever encountered, 360-degree panoramic life review, everything.
		And I didn't ever realize that I haven't missed very much.
		And neither will any person who's listening to this broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did that occur?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how did it come to you?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It was three-dimensional.
		It was like a hologram.
		I was living it, every aspect of it, from the leaves on the tree outside of the window to the conversations to the books that were in the room.
		Anywhere that I would focus, I knew everything about that event.
		And as I did that, I watched it from a second person.
		All this happened at the same time, Art.
		And it's really hard.
		I've taken years to try to create a language that describes what really happened.
		And this is just the best that I can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You know, you put it together and use and hunt words and dictionaries so you have the best way to try to explain it.
		But I not only re-experienced it, I watched it from a second-person point of view, like an empathetic point of view, to look at it as though I was a friend of mine watching me.
		You know, a lot of times we have kids and friends and relatives that are, there's nothing you can do about but be there, watch, and support them, like an empathetic point of view.
		And then I literally became every person that I ever encountered.
		And I felt the direct results of my interaction between me and that person.
		Not what I thought had happened, but what they truly felt.
		That's when I really realized that, like, love thy neighbor as thyself and do unto others as you would have others do unto you, are real true things found in religion.
		Because if you're going to be every person that you've ever encountered, and you're going to feel the direct results of your interaction between you and that person, then as you look at any situation, you look at it differently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a terrifying thought.
		Oh, because all of us, all of us, Daniel, we have things that we have done to people.
		I wrote of that in my first book.
		You know, I know I have.
		When I was younger, I did some things that I'm not at all proud of to other people.
		And to imagine to have to live that from their perspective, I don't think I'd be looking forward to that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't matter, Art.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		This is how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It will happen.
		But here's the coolest part about it, Art.
		Watch this.
		When it all passes, and you'll be amazed at how much good stuff you've done, but what will happen is how the judgment system, this is what has amazed me through two near-death experiences, the judgment system is as though the best way that I can describe it is think of looking at your life as you from this perspective.
		If God couldn't come today and God sent you, in the life you're now reviewing, what difference has God made?
		Not anything to do with you.
		You are looking at it from a perspective.
		As you go through it, there was also that dimension.
		Now, when I went through my first panoramic life review, it was a depressing time for God, if that was the difference I was supposed to make.
		I mean, it was a bad day in heaven, trust me.
		Because I hadn't been just a jackass locally at here.
		I had taken jackass them all over the world and had mastered it as an art form.
		I had to feel what they went through, and I had to understand, my God, this is the result of my action, and no matter how I saw it or felt bad about it, I'm too busy feeling what they went through to think of being afraid of it happening.
		And we're watching, because it's an automatic nature.
		This automatically happens.
		It will happen to everybody.
		What I write about is how to take it at being midlife or in our midlife and how to take it and apply it to your life today so that you change.
		Now, why I write my books is I dedicate them all to baby boomers, but those of us as we face our own mortality, we must help those who we love and who have loved us face theirs.
		And there's guys just a little before me, and people just a little after me.
		But they're in a place where They're having to look at their lives and take a full inventory of their health, especially with the way insurance is going.
		And then they have family members that are making this transition from this world to the next world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but with what you've told me of your life to that point, you should have been bound for the down escalator after that review.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
unidentified		Absolutely.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It still amazes me why it didn't happen.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It still amazes me, but nonetheless, it didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Danion, before we continue, is it possible, do you think, that everybody comes back with their own particular experience?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there are many who have experienced near death who tell a somewhat different story, even some who come back and tell of hell.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		About 3% do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is it possible that what you're describing is not universal, that it might be different for every soul?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I think that everyone's interpretation of it can vary because we're all uniquely spiritual beings.
		There is a uniqueness art about each and every one of us and how our perspective sees things, which shows our unique part in the overall spiritual consciousness of things as well as in the mental and physical consciousness of it.
		But I believe that this experience is universal.
		I mean, think of this.
		I've had two near-death experiences.
		Two of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us finish with the first.
		I mean, after all, there you are.
		you're with the being of light and i guess we better And so what are you doing?
		You're sitting there saying, I was trying to figure out how to forgive myself.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I was trying to figure out, I can remember this.
		I was trying to figure out that what appeared to be the next step to me was how to forgive myself and that forgiveness was like an art.
		That once you could forgive yourself of things, you became aware of the things that you had done that were good, that either equated them or things that you don't really ever think about that you do.
		Over there, the most important things are the little things that you do every day.
		I mean, it's the simple things of an act of kindness or patting someone on the back or giving someone a boost of confidence or helping them through a hard time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, did you have the sense, Daniel, that you were being judged by an entity, by another, or that you were, in effect, judging yourself?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I was judging myself.
		I never encountered anything that in any way was judging me.
		Nothing.
		And I'll tell you something, Art.
		There is nothing who can judge me as harsh as I can judge me.
		I mean, there is no one, just like when you were just talking earlier, there is no one who can handle and understand what you did and what motivated you better than you.
		And when you look at the system of how you judge yourself, you realize that this is a job.
		What I've come to look at after going through two near-death experiences, I met Raymond Moody.
		I've been in over 10 countries and talked to more than 600 people who had near-death experiences.
		I've been around since 1975 watching this experience.
		And I've been a hospice volunteer for 18 years.
		I've been around probably 155 people leaving this world and their family members.
		I went from a complete jackass to having this near-death experience.
		I'm still a jackass, but I've improved myself.
		But I began to do hospice work because I was amazed at this method by which we leave this world and how stable it was and how I could change my life accordingly to what had happened.
		That's why I wrote Save by the Light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a panorama of your life, followed by what?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, followed by looking at it from a second person point of view, like an empathetic.
		I learned from that that when you meet somebody, you don't sympathize with them, you empathize with them.
		If you become them, you can better help them.
		And then feeling the direct results of your interaction between you and that person.
		That is what's so dramatic about the whole experience.
		I mean, all the cosmic stuff that went on in my near-death experience, which I didn't know it was all that cosmic.
		I just explained it to the people who asked me.
		You know, the crystal cities and the future events and all those things which have come true.
		But the most important to me is just Daniel and Brankley at 47 years old being struck by lightning, was the fact that I would move through a tunnel and come into this place and this system was so stable that I could build a stronger belief system in this world knowing that you don't die and knowing that there's a way at which you leave this world.
		And then I focused it on hospice so that I could help other people going through those issues who were still in doubt or the system had taught them to be afraid so they can make the right decisions at the right time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During all of this, did you have a sense of time?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		There's no such thing as that.
		I mean, here there is, but there, the time-space differentium was really different.
		I mean, it's really different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No sense of time at all then?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		None.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		There's no sense of time except in the panoramic life review when you're watching a series of events, but a lot of them are happening all at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you said a couple of intriguing things.
		Crystal cities, you said, future events.
		Let's get into that when we get back.
		We're breaking here at the bottom of the hour.
		You're listening to what it's like to die.
		And not too many people come back.
		To Daniel Brinkley, it occurred twice, not once, but twice.
		We'll tell you about that.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Arch Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
		Oh, baby, don't be kidding me.
		I can't accept, I'll surely miss your tender kiss, don't leave me this way.
		Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you, now come on down and do what you gotta do.
		I can't accept, I'll just let fire down in my soul, now can't you see it's burning, I can't control.
		Hold that fire that needed me, only your beloved can set me free.
		I can't accept, I'll just let fire down in my soul, now can't control.
		I'm walking every moment in my good love again.
		I'm only telling all to find that love is not okay.
		I'm running every time and you will see to stay this time.
		I'm walking in the moment as you turn around to play.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncour presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some programs are more important than others.
		This is one of those.
		So, just get comfortable, turn your radio up, and listen very carefully to what it's like to die.
		My guest is Daniel Brinkley, and he'll be back in a moment.
unidentified		The End You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Daniel Brinkley.
		A most remarkable, remarkable experience.
		So well documented in medical records.
		Near death.
		I wonder if that's even a fair term, Daniel.
		Near death.
		Is that the right term?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's more like near-life art.
		But, you know, thanks to Raymond Moody, who wrote the landmark book, Life After Life.
		Raymond Moody gave this experience a name that allows us every day to talk about it.
unidentified		An NDE, a near-death experience.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Then we're not locked into medical terms or locked into religious concepts or institutionalized concepts.
		We have a chance through experience of everyday people, which is me.
		I'm just some jerk from South Carolina who got struck by lightning and who went through this experience.
		And I was in the early days of it, so that my case is like everybody's been tossing it around for 21 years.
		And when you go through this, Raymond gave it a name, which I thank God for it, because it gave me, when I met Raymond Moody, it gave me a chance to understand art because I had absolutely no idea what had happened to me.
unidentified		I could find no place to relate to anything about it.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And then I had to start over and re-educate myself from everything from the Tibetan Book of the Dead to all kinds of books and what people were writing about that had to deal with spirituality or esoteric information and shamanism from Carlos Castaneda's books everywhere because I didn't have any idea what this was all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, big search.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		So a near-death experience doesn't in any way relate to being alive.
		No one ever dies.
		I have no question about it.
		Death is not something to be afraid of, and it's something that is inevitable for all of us, but it's just a transition from this world back to where you came from, and it's usually with a job well done, except for a few little kinks that you're going to have to face and deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope that's all it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, you mentioned Crystal Cities.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened after I couldn't forgive myself, which I had a chance to forgive myself, and I recommend everybody out there listening because everybody who's listening to this are the same as me.
		I'm a night person like you, Art.
		I love the night.
		And I love to explore all types of things in the night.
		And I stay up and I listen to Heartbell and other shows so that I can grow and expand.
		So I'm really proud of this listening audience and all your sponsors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's terrific that I get to be a part of the night with people who are like me, and I appreciate everybody who listens to Coast to Coast AM because we all grow from listening to it.
		But I think what's really important for us is to start looking at the fact that this does occur.
		And in its occurrence, it gives a stabilizing factor to a lot about life.
		I watch people go through a lot of really stressful things because they don't know that the near-death experience is even more valid than the life experience that they're having now.
		And that when you're returning home, when this is a job well done and you're going back, and it's only the quality of the job that you did here, and it's as if the Holy Spirit or the greatest spiritual value you can conceive of by whatever name had sent you because they themselves could not come.
		Then all of a sudden you start looking at it as being a soldier and how you get your job done.
		But what happened to me was I went way in deep into the near-death experience.
		And at the time when Raymond wrote Reflections on Life After Life and the other books, George's books were coming out and Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and their books were just coming out, I was right there because I didn't know any better than to tell it all.
		But after I couldn't forgive myself, I began to move through different dimensions and spheres, but not anything I was not comfortable with and as natural as any other program.
		And I was going to what I could only describe as look like cities built of light and they were crystalline in structure and this is the only thing that I can think of that I can describe this as.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you think you were?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean as we think in our minds of heaven and hell and maybe purgatory depending on your belief system, where do you think you were?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well I was in a crystal city and I think it's a place where you go to really look at the life.
		You return to some place that you had left from to come here.
		You know in Melvin Morris's book about resuscitating more than 300 children, he has a really cool book out now called Hearting Visions where people have experiences with dearly departed loved ones.
		But he was a pediatrician who had resuscitated more than 300 children and he had a lot of cases of children saying they had seen people waiting to be born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Waiting to be born.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean he has case after case of this.
		Kids five years old and under who don't know any better than to tell the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Waiting to be born.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Waiting to be born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, yeah, but aren't we talking now about born or reborn?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I don't know about that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I mean reincarnation is not a factor in my life that I can attach to the near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In this book, since you've touched on it, what form did these beings have who are waiting to be born?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they have form, physical form?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't quite get that, but they had form and they were very knowledgeable of the system.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It was as though to these kids there was a natural system in place and the waiting to be born was how they described it, but they had a deeper knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean waiting to be born, even the expression itself is suggestive of reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well do you rule it out?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I used to.
		I wouldn't even have given it the time of day.
		Remember, a hardcore jarhead having an experience, having enough trouble dealing with it in his own self, struggling, living in South Carolina, not exactly the most enlightened place in 1975, nowhere to turn as I struggle with my physical, mental self, but holding on to this experience that I knew was more real than anything I had gone through.
		And I knew I had to survive.
		I had to get up no matter what they said.
		I had to get up and I had to make what I thought my job was, make it happen.
		Because I knew the near-death experience was the most real thing that had ever happened to me.
		And I've seen 105 millimeter round drop in, and I've seen claymores, what they'll do, and I've seen bombs and firepower.
		I understand what reality is.
		This was the most real.
		And so when I look at these things now at 47 instead of 25, when I look at the work of Brian Weiss and Winifred Lucas, who are trained scientists trying to help their patient, who use regression therapy that takes people back to back past lives, and that that therapy helps their patient.
		And I've studied them.
		I've watched them.
		I know Brian Weiss.
		I know everybody.
		You know, Art, I'm a very nosy person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's stop right there again.
		I mean, here we go again.
		You just cited somebody who takes somebody into past lives.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Past lives?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Take somebody into past lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Past lives?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's reincarnation.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what a psychiatrist and what Brian Weiss does.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And then I started reading Elizabeth Claire Prophet's new book on the missing end of Christianity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I interviewed her not long ago.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I was amazed.
		I mean, you hear all this bunker siege mentality stuff about that crowd up in the mountains.
		I found them to be the most delightful people, the most centered people, and really loving and caring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really did, too.
		I didn't find any of what the popular media tries to make her to be.
		Wasn't there?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I was depressed that she wasn't dressed as Rambo.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I got depressed about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I told her that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And when I started reading her new book, I mean, there's a lot of really fabulous gathered data in this new book.
		I think it's called Reincarnation.
		I don't know.
		Yeah, the missing link in Christianity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's right.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And it really goes through a lot of stuff because I want to know all the facets of my spiritual self, knowing from the near-death experience that you don't die, and knowing that you will pass through all this experience.
		And then these crystal cities, I read in her books, which I had never heard of before, something that Mark Prophet brought back, or how he wrote it down, that described these as brotherhoods or places of learning.
		And I realized there's just another description of the same place that I went.
		I just had no information about this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So were you just passing through these by them in motion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you in motion?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I passed by some.
		I only went to one.
		But I knew there were many of them.
		You know, when you, like, think of an evening with a mist in the mountains, like in the Grand Rockies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And you see houses on the side of the mountain that lit up.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You could see that light go out into almost like into space or they light the mist that's hanging over the mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		That's what they look like.
		And I was moving above them.
		And I was traveling at, like floating, but traveling at a rate of speed.
		I could tell that because I could hear what appeared to be sounds changing in tones.
		You know, there's so much about frequencies that I don't understand and tones and color and pitch and things that I don't have sense enough to understand or I could explain it even better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all those senses were totally alive.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		More alive than ever.
		I came to a place, Art, where I could literally, before I entered this crystal city, and it was in the traveling to it, that I became more aware of who I was more than Daniel Brinkley.
		More of the spiritual being returning home and taking back my natural identity of myself because I was aware that I could conceive of anything.
		Like, I could know anything at any place.
		I could consume any amount of information.
		You know, a lot of us who come back who've had that experience become obsessed with that consumption of knowledge.
		And so there lies the point that As I became more of the true spiritual person that I am, and much of that I've closed off like anybody would, but, you know, I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to get a wake-up call, to get another round at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Dan, when we have a dream at night, probably just before we awake in the morning, actually, and we remember that, you know, as we're just waking up, it's vivid.
		It's as real as real can be.
		We were living it, but as we sip our first cup of coffee, the fading begins.
		By the second cup of coffee, if you're a coffee drinker, or whatever it is you drink in the morning, as you wake up, it's fading fast.
		By midday, unless you have intentionally tried to remember it and recall the details, it's gone.
		Is there any relationship between that and what you experienced?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I believe that when people sleep, this is a Danyan theory, this is not...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but what I'm saying is, you've told this and told it again.
		You know the story because you've told it so many times.
		It's committed now to your conscious memory.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'm asking is, though, otherwise, do you think it would have faded like a dream fades?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I would think that it would have done that.
		I think that it would have passed.
		I could never forget the things that not being afraid of dying and the comfort and the love and the wonderment that's over on that side.
		There is so much wonderment.
		There is so much what is love in its most majestic concept that you can conceive of.
		And that stays with me.
		and it'll never go away but i believe i believe that if i hadn't seen the future events that are made me my made me so famous which i didn't know it was the future then that the things like chernobyl and the collapse of the soviet union and the war in the middle east and called it storm something and this big deal about designer boots and how my mind in 1975 all right uh you've
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when did all of this begin to come to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to keep you on track here regarding...
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		These kinds of words are the only thing that could express what they felt like and appeared to me.
		Each of these twelve were equal, and then there was a 13th being.
		To me, it was as though this being controlled what I was being taught or shown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like a jury for him or something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, they weren't judging me.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		They were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were there, I understand.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		though they were to inform me of certain events that would come about from the emotional process of where people were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were going to inform you or did inform you about events.
		Would it be, Daniel, at that moment that it was already predestined that you were going back?
		Whatever was going to happen, you weren't going forward, Daniel.
		You were going back.
		So you were shown all of this for a really specific reason.
		Is that what you conclude?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But remember this.
		I wasn't smart enough to realize that.
		Because art, if I had caught on to the fact that they were sending me back at any time, they would have had a tough time.
		I would have been trying to figure out a way to keep from it happening.
		This is the part about being over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't want to come back.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't give me this place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were remembering that singed ugly body.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that whole event.
		But where I was, I was happy to be there.
		I was exploring a whole new world, and I was more dimensional and more wondrous than I could even conceive of.
		And I think that was the place I drew such comfort from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but in retrospect, you are now convinced that you were shown these things because you were coming back.
unidentified		Yeah.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And they never told me either.
		I've held that against them, too, Art.
		You know, if they would have just given me some idea, or maybe I was just too dumb.
		But if they had told me I was coming back, it wouldn't have happened.
		I would have figured out a way.
		Now, the second near-death experience, I chose to come back, but at this point in it, I didn't choose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to go back and know what it is you saw.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wrote it, and let me make an offer, okay?
		Sure.
		I wrote Saved by the Light and at Peace in the Light.
		and it gives all the details about the stuff that we'll miss and if people who listen to this show if they write me Millions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, millions.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, millions of books.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'm not really sure of exactly, but it's around 21 countries and probably 20 languages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What year did you write that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		In 1992 and 93.
unidentified		Okay.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Came out in 1994, and at Peace came out in 1995.
		And it's like all the things that we'll miss that stuck in there.
		But I have hardbacks.
		I bought enough hardbacks so that when I felt like that I wanted to offer it, I could offer it at a good place and that I could touch people who never heard of me and a lot of stuff we don't cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've got the two big books, Saved by the Light.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		$20 plus $3 shipping, $23.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For two books?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Two hardback, and if they'll tell me what to sign it, then they write Art Bell is Wonderful on it.
		Just like we did the last time, Art.
		It's those times when I get a chance to give to the people in the night, hey everybody, I'm like you.
		This really happened to me.
		And here's all the details of it.
		And Art will have me back sometime.
		And, you know, here's the read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel, that's like half price, I think.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a little less than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say, probably less than that.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really want to do that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I do.
		Absolutely.
		Because no one's going to know about it but us.
		I mean, and it's the people who listen at night.
		These are my friends, Art.
		They're worrying about the same things.
		They're worrying about how to take care of their children and how to handle their moms-in-laws and how to handle their parents and how to handle their life as they face their mortality.
		And they learn a lot from listening to Art Bell.
		And I'm really thankful that they do because I'm one of us.
		I just happen to have had my experience.
		And when people ask me why I travel so much and I work so tirelessly in hospice programs, because I think about this.
		I'm 47 years old.
		My dad, I see where my dad is and my family are.
		And there's a lot of people thinking about the same things I'm thinking about.
		And if I've been through two of these, and I've gone through it, and I've been with, you know, a hundred of people who are losing their moms and dads, and I've watched all the interreaction, and I wasn't out here trying to help my peers deal with theirs, then what good is it?
		It's just some crappy story that a fool that talked on the telephone and had his heart cut out, collapsing and having to have an open heart surgery.
		I didn't come across this by contemplating my nasal heart.
		I got struck by lightning.
		And then 14 years later, because of being struck by lightning, I collapsed from heart failure and had to have emergency open heart surgery.
		And I'm still making those statements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		I'll tell you what.
		I'm going to advise the audience.
		I'll hold tight, Daniel.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		I'm going to advise the audience, like get a piece of paper or something.
		This is going to be a really good deal.
		So we'll get you the details on this.
		Both books.
		These are two monstrous books, saved by light, millions and millions, a piece in the light.
		And he's talking about both books.
		So we'll get to the details on that.
		Go get a pencil and a piece of paper.
		Daniel Brinkley is my guest.
		There's more to come.
unidentified		You're listening to Ark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast AM from July
		18, 1997.
		Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Shogging Island and the nights are low.
		Looking up for a place to go.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest from Charleston, South Carolina is Daniel Brinkley.
		There's no doubt about it.
		The medical records are clear and precise.
		Daniel was struck by lightning.
		His shoes, the nails of the shoes, welded to the floor.
		His body tossed into the air on fire on the bed.
		He was dead.
		Rushed to the hospital in an ambulance.
		He was months and months and months in recovery after that.
		All of that is very clearly documented.
		What is not documented, what we are documenting now, is what occurred.
		He died.
		And what he experienced is nothing short of absolutely remarkable, and that's what we have been discussing for the last couple of hours.
		And we'll pick up on that point.
unidentified		And I guess a gift that he was given in a moment.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I would say if we saw what has happened in the Arab Spring, that kind of protest, and they think that they need some kind of a law like this in order to round up Americans, that the NDAA would be used without a doubt.
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		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 18, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		The End All right, again, my guest is Daniel Brinkley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the last two hours, we have been going through a detailed description of what it is like to die, what happened to Daniel when he did die, and he did.
unidentified		Not once, but twice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, he's authored two books.
		They've sold millions and millions.
		Saved by the Light and At Peace in the Light.
		I do want to try and press you a little bit.
		You were, after all you went through, Daniel, in that first experience, and you went to this crystal city and you were shown things.
		Of those things that you were shown that involve our future, or involved at that time our future, how much of, what percentage of those things, Daniel, have come true already?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, about 92 or 3.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		I wonder what that might mean in terms of how much longer you have to spend here.
		Have you ever thought about that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when what was shown to you has completely manifested itself, it may be time for something else.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe that.
		I mean, after going through this and watching it for 21 years, tonight we're reliving something that happened 21 years ago, and I have grown in this experience until 1989 and having a second one.
		But I can pretty much, you know, about 2004, somewhere around April or May, I'll be out of here.
		Because as I watch what turned out to be future events art, you know, a lot of people give me that title of prophet and stuff like that, but I don't buy into it.
		I believe I was shown these events, and so I would have nowhere to go.
		That I would have to accept what was going on and know that I'm a part of some really wondrous experience that is occurring, that everyone who is here at this time either chose to come here or were chosen to come here, and they came to execute the transition from what is one era to another era.
		And as I saw these future events, you know, I said all this stuff in 1975, and I mean, I wrote about them in Saved by the Light, and then I followed up in that piece, and then there's been some that's come true since then.
		But I didn't see me involved in anything in a conscious way after 204.
		There was just no place I was there.
		But I saw events to around 214.
		And so as I watched these, you know, I said Chernobyl would happen in 1975 and it happened in 1986.
		I described the second nuclear accident.
		I said there would be a war, America would go to war in the Middle East in 1990 in the summer and it'd be called Storm Something.
		And this recent one, I said that there would be an army of women that would be dressed as though they appeared to me as Muslims.
		And everybody laughed about that for 15 years, that an army of Muslim women marching into a European city or a city that appeared European to me.
		And someone just sent me a fax the other day that on the cover of Time magazine was an army of Muslim women preparing to attack Iran.
		And that's why a moderate president was put in because the women were about to go and defend women who were being had their hands cut off or acid poured on them or beaten because they didn't ascribe to the fully fundamentalist position in Muslim tradition.
		And then you watch Afghanistan and you see that they're cutting people's heads off and beating women and killing children.
		And then there was this band of from 30 to 50,000 organized, trained, disciplined troops that are women.
		And all of a sudden, you know, when people see the predictions and they come back and they teach me about it, they show me.
		And it's so obvious that what I'm seeing in the symbology in it.
		So a lot of the things that made the books and it makes people look at my particular story are those things.
		But I don't know all that.
		All I know is what happened and what I saw.
		And as these things come to pass, that we're moving toward a deeper spiritual revelation about ourselves.
		And it's like we're ending a period of time and a new period is starting.
		And this is the transition period.
		It's pretty remarkable when I sit here at the same place where I had recovered from open heart surgery and I spent nine months lying in the bed in this room with IVs in my arms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me stop you, Daniel.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Getting ahead of myself here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you are, because I want to complete, I want to put closure to the first thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get back?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I came back after seeing the things in the Crystal City, I returned, I came out of the Crystal City and returned to a place where these 12 beings were.
		And they were still there, but I was cognizant of the place.
		The difference in the visions Was that I really was living them.
		I was a part of them.
		I could smell the smells and see the things, although it was almost physical, like the heat of the explosion.
		Whereas in that spiritual realm, none of that happened like that.
		It was more like I was communicating and I was a part of them, and they were a part of me, and I could communicate with them.
		So then they told me I had to go back.
		And I had to stay and follow up on looking at these things and putting into place a center, a place where people could experience stuff.
		But that really did never sink in until about a year after the experience.
		But when I came back, I found myself in the hallway floating.
		And I was looking for my body, and I couldn't figure out if I found it, how was I going to get back in it?
		These are the things I think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At this point, you were in the hospital.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, back in the hallway.
		And I left as the ambulance was going to the hospital.
		And then I'm in the hallway looking for myself.
		I mean, I write about it in the books.
		I find myself covered with a sheet, and I'm trying to figure out how to get back in this body.
		And it wasn't so much worrying me, but it was a curiosity to me.
		You know, it's amazing how dumb I am.
		And I look back over the experience, you know, what a fool I am.
		And I couldn't figure out how to get back in the body.
		And when Tommy, who had come over there, my best pal, had come over, and then the orderlies were coming to take me downstairs, because I was just pushed into a side room in the emergency room with the lights cut off and tagged and was taking me someplace.
		I think the morgue or wherever those things are.
		And all of a sudden I moved back in my body.
		And I couldn't breathe.
		And I was trying to figure out why we breathed.
		Yeah, you'd be amazed at how powerful and mighty we are.
		We're not poor, pitiful, stupid little humans trying to have mystical experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something, Daniel.
		There was a UPI story yesterday.
		I don't know whether anybody got to you with it or not, about a man in Egypt who died.
		Tagged, put in a coffin in a refrigerated unit, and woke up in the coffin.
		Pushed the coffin aside, found himself with many other dead people and began to scream.
		True story, Daniel.
		I can believe it.
		The technicians that came to get his body finally heard him screaming.
		They pulled him out.
		One of the technicians had a heart attack on the spot and died.
		And this man lives now.
		This was just the other day.
		These things do happen.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's no question about it.
		It happens every day.
		When I began hospice, when I came back, I ended up in my body.
		They had to rush me in and stabilize me and put oxygen and pump on my chest a little.
		And then they put me in intensive care.
		And then I started my recovery.
		And as I started coming back, after six days of paralysis and then months and months of having to think about it every day, I met Raymond.
		Then I started to do hospice work.
		And I think it was because I missed the place so much that I wanted to be close to people who were going back there so that I could talk to them and I could see what they experienced and people being resuscitated.
		And now I'm in my 18th year as a hospice volunteer.
		And I love to be around people who are getting ready to make their transition because there I make a difference.
		Remember the panoramic life review.
		You're not only going to see your whole life pass before you, you're going to see yourself from a second person point of view, then you're going to become every person that you've ever encountered.
		Then you will judge yourself.
		And you get a chance to realize that if I'm going to be every person I'm going to encounter, then my whole way I treat people and the whole way I focus on helping.
		And having gone through two near-death experiences and gone through that one, I found that people in crisis and trying to make the right decisions about hospice programs and what to do with Medicaid and Medicare and alternative therapies, that I was like a stabilizing factor because I'm not afraid of dying.
		I've had this experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not after twice.
		Well, there was one.
		So then how long between experience one and experience two?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Fourteen years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fourteen years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your first experience was so rare, so few people have it.
unidentified		And here you've had two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a heart problem?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You know, it destroyed my whole life.
		I mean, it completely destroyed my whole life.
		A lot of people who go through near-death experiences, it changes them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what happened the second time?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the second time, I thought I had a cold.
		I've been pushing myself, working really, really hard because it wasn't until 1980 that the first of the predictions started to appear.
		I thought that stuff was gone, Art.
		And I've started helping people deal with death and dying and working in nursing homes and getting myself involved and helping people.
		And I thought maybe it would just go away because I still hadn't had a place to put it into context.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I worry about you because you still push yourself the same way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't see any change at all.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do, I do.
		But, you know, Art, I have a chance to make a difference.
		And one thing about the second near-death experience, I got a chance to see the difference that I had made as a person.
		And right now, I know that there are a lot of people making some really serious decisions about their moms and dads and how they're going to deal with loss.
		And I have a chance, like, just getting to be on your show and talk to people who can listen to me and know I'm not some scientist or anything.
		I'm just this person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but Danion, I'm close enough to you, as you are to me.
		I've watched you, and you will push yourself to exhaustion and past it.
		You still do that, you know.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I realize that more and more at 47.
		I'm getting to appreciate the fact that I can't.
		You know, this opportunity came, and it was a chance to tell people that death is not a real thing.
		That you do not die.
		You have a job to do.
		You come here to do it and you leave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A heart attack?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		What did you have?
		I collapsed from heart failure.
		I had worked so hard and pushed myself so hard and I like to restore old cars.
		It's how I keep my mind off of all those heady things that you have to study.
		I got staph infection and it landed on the weakest part of my body and it ate my aortic valve and I was drowning in my own blood and I got to the hospital and I went in, I told a guy, you know, I thought I had the flu or have those all the symptoms of the flu achiness.
		He told me, he said, well, I went to see the doctor in the emergency room and I said, you know, give me some medicine and let me go home, some antibiotics.
		And he checked me and he said, you know, you want me to tell you the truth?
		And I said, sure.
		I paid $270.
		I certainly could find somebody who liked to me cheaper than that.
		And he said, he said, you got a touch of the flu in your left lung.
		He said, but you're in heart failure.
		You'll be dead in 45 minutes.
		And then I just collapsed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said that to you?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I woke up.
		I had IVs.
		I had an IV in my neck going into my heart, one in my leg, going into my heart.
		I had IVs in both arms, and they were prepping me for open heart surgery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Well, I mean, how did he...
		How did they determine?
		You're going to be dead in 45 minutes.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, just taking my blood pressure at the rate at which I was declining, he figured I would make it another 45 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's blunt.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the way I would.
		That's Southern.
		That's the way we talk down here.
		You get to the point.
		And I wanted to know.
		And what was amazing to him is I started laughing because when I was thinking through it, here I had my golden opportunity.
		And I was pretty excited about it.
		I mean, here I get to go again, but this time maybe I would stay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you went into open heart surgery.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I refused it.
		It took them three days or four days because I told him that I was not going to do it.
		Really?
		No, I wouldn't sign the papers.
		I mean, this is the legendary story, but it's only because I was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were they telling you?
		Were they telling you either sign this and go for the surgery or you'll die?
		And you said no?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
		I wouldn't sign anything.
		My family came down.
		Everybody I knew came down to talk to me.
		I've had enough of this life.
		If I had the opportunity to go back, and it was by natural means, I hadn't done anything except maybe push myself a little too hard, but it wasn't that I was on some kind of suicidal binge.
		It was that I saw the opportunity to make a true difference in the quality of the lives of people who had not gone through what I've gone through, but who are having to make decisions about children, about family members, and because I had been through it.
		You know, I know what it's like to be afraid.
		I know what it's like to face death.
		I know what it's like to see the other side.
		And I know what it's like to come back and get up from paralysis and to come back.
		And then here I was facing it again.
		And I thought, you know, I had done enough.
		The rest of it I didn't care about.
		I was ready to go home.
		And Raymond came to see me.
		And they called Raymond because they thought he was the only one who could talk sense into it or talk some sense into me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Raymond Moody.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and Raymond said, stay and help me.
		I need your help.
		And he was going through a crisis at that time.
		And I thought about all the stuff he had ever done for me.
		And, you know, he's been a good friend to me for a lot of years.
		And he's helped me through a lot of tough times and understanding what was happening to me.
		But then I, and even in recent times, you know, a lot of advice that he gives me helps me make me a better person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did you do then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Finally sign the paper?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I signed and I had the second near-death experience.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I not only witnessed the open heart surgery, I could recall the conversations that were going on in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		We'll get to that.
		And I promise, he's got this really special book deal that he's going to offer you.
		So as I keep suggesting, we will get to it, I promise.
		Get a piece of paper and a pencil and have them handy.
		Actually, these are both books that are must-read.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Ha ha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back, everybody.
		My guest is an incredible, incredible person.
		His name is Daniel Brinkley.
		He twice died and twice came back.
		And he really did.
		The medical records are impeccably accurate.
		We are in the midst of describing the second occurrence, and then I've got something I'm going to say to him.
		He's probably not expecting it.
		I'm batching it tonight, by the way.
		My wife is down with my in-laws in Southern California and presently at the Santa Ana PNDC part of the post office, which is where my mother-in-law, Julie, works.
		So, hello down there at the post office to everybody.
		It's a big group down there that listens.
		Hi.
		We'll be getting back to Danian Brinkley in a moment.
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		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I would say if we saw what has happened in the Arab Spring, that kind of protest, and they think that they need some kind of a law like this in order to round up Americans, that the NDAA would be used without a doubt.
		If there are huge protests and there are millions of people complaining about the government, then maybe the government should listen instead of passing new legislation to crack down on these protesters.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 18, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Daniel Brinkley in Charleston, South Carolina.
		All right, here you are then, Daniel.
		Off you go into convinced to sign the form into open heart surgery.
		What happened?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, when they gave me the two shots that they normally give you in the hip that tells you you're going to be relaxed, all of a sudden I just went black.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And the next thing I know, I was floating in this blue-gray place again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back in the same place.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Same place, same system.
		I mean, it was identical.
		What was so marvelous about it, Art, was here I was watching it again.
		I roll over and I see them preparing me for open heart surgery.
		And then I describe in detail everything.
		I could hear the conversations.
		I was watching them painting my chest.
		I watched them cut me open from my neck to my navel.
		I watched them, oh, listen to this one.
		The cutting open wasn't near as wondrous as when they put the buzz saw.
		I heard the saw my chest open, spread my heart, my chest open with this device, reach in, take my heart out, cut on the machines.
		What was wondrous about the machines, when they cut on the machines, that your heart stops beating and they switch it over to this automatic system that's pumping your blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I felt an exhilaration when they did that.
		I mean, I didn't move from where I was, but I felt a freedom.
		Wow.
		When they cut my heart open, I thought to myself how amazing this was because I was so confident that I wouldn't live through it because I'd never seen anything that anybody survived when they cut your heart open and cut the center of it out.
		And as I watched that and thought to myself, wow, I will not survive and what a pleasant thought it was, I started back down the tunnel.
		I came into the place of bright, brilliant light.
		I was met by this same being.
		I had a panoramic life review.
		I mean, I went through the same thing.
		I saw my life pass before me.
		I watched it from an empathetic point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it, it went better at this time.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first 25 years was just as rotten as the first time I had seen it.
		It didn't change at all.
		I had to relive the same stuff over and over again.
		It's as horrible as it was.
		But what made the difference was the next 14 years.
		I got a chance to be the people I had helped leave this world.
		I got to be, if this holy, if the spirit couldn't come today, the true spiritual value that we are couldn't come today, and I was there, then what difference had it made?
		And as I helped people who were leaving this world and as I learned to be a lot nicer to people and caring about them, I got to relive all those acts of kindness.
		When you find a person like my hospice patient whose children dropped her off at the emergency room and no one had come to see her in 10 years and she had uterine cancer and three weeks to live, and I came to see her because I cared, that being that person is the most important change in my life.
		And what I try to get across to people is everybody's going to go through what I went through.
		There's nothing unique about me.
		This is how we leave this world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What occurred clinically in the second experience?
		In other words, during this surgery, did you again physically die?
		Do you know what happened?
		I'm sure they told you.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, they didn't tell me.
		I just heard about it.
		They don't tell you that stuff because they worry about malpractice.
		It doesn't look good being dead.
		One of the nurses said for about between 8 and 12 minutes.
		I was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're gone.
unidentified		Yeah.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, that was okay with me, Art.
		After being going through this twice and watching how it works, I realized That we choose to come here and we're chosen to come here.
		And for the sheer pleasure of living in the infinite possibilities of the reality of the other side, we all come and do our duty.
		We come to help make a better world.
		We come to co-create.
		We come to find a place where we can co-create.
		You know, I teach a course.
		Now, after so many years, I teach a course about it, and I try to do tours about it, and I try to find a way to create conscious awareness for everybody and the things that I've come encountered with in my life.
		I'm not just a person who had near-death experiences.
		I'm somebody who's lived 47 years also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you answer this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea why you were chosen twice not to die?
unidentified		Yes.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		They were desperate.
		The only way I can figure it is why they picked me is they had to be completely desperate.
		And they'd completely run out of messiahs.
		And they figured if they put all this on a fool, they'd just see how he could handle it.
		Well, that's the only way I can look at it, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one way to look at it, I guess.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they had to be desperate if they picked me.
		I mean, give me a break.
		But I've held up.
		I've worked continuously, and at all costs, I've stayed true to what I said from the first day, and I've held up reasonably, and I'm doing it right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you are doing it right now, and that's where I want to.
		I'm going to stop you for a minute, Daniel, and I'm going to read something, and then I'm going to say something.
		This is from Rich, who just sent me facts.
		Hi, Art.
		I'm really glad you've got Danion on again.
		I met him about four years ago in Marietta, Georgia.
		He was on a local TV show called Talk at Night with Brian Wilson.
		I arrived late and got to meet and talk with him in the green room.
		That's a room, I guess, you know, that you're in before you go out into a TV show until the commercials came on.
		When you meet him, he has this incredible aura that comes over you in his presence.
		It's a great feeling of love, compassion, acceptance, kindness.
		I was really moved by meeting him.
		What really struck me, though, was that during the show we had gone to see, Daniel took questions from the audience.
		And a friend of mine asked him about his house, my friend's house.
		Daniel described his house to an accuracy that blew my mind away.
		They had never met, yet Daniel could see the house in his mind.
		It was amazing.
		I don't know if he remembers this or me, but it convinced me that he had some sort of gift.
		Well, that's it.
		Just thought I'd relate the story and maybe refresh Daniel's mind and see if he could recall the incident.
		That's from somebody named Rich.
		Do you remember that, Daniel?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember that, but thanks, Rich, because it happened a lot of times.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		remember art one of the other things that happened to me is i became intuitive and i use it a lot of times solving murders and i help people deal with closure with their family members and i've been able to do this how i sold at peace in the light was by calling each of the people who were bidding on the book and describing things in their office and you know things that they and they were
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to just approach this straight on.
		As my audience is well aware, there is something very drastic, very drastic, that has occurred in my life.
		And before I ever began, I went through a period of time on the air, and I'm not done with it.
		When I began to talk about revenge, and I had a great anger, and I still have it, I should tell you I still have it.
		The most serious incident of all my life occurred to me recently.
		And if I could tell you about it, I would.
		And one day I will tell my audience this incredible thing, this horrible thing that has happened.
		But I can't.
		I just can't.
		There are lots of reasons which you will understand later when I can tell you about it.
		Before I ever began to, you know, you can't do a five-hour damn talk show on the air without letting out some of your emotions, and I was going through the most traumatic time of my life here recently, and really still am.
		What I would call a life-threatening situation, okay?
		And I'm not going to define it, and I can't more than that on the air.
		The only reason I'm relating this to you right now is because before I ever began to sort of have to say something about it on the air, because of this incredible anger and need for revenge, that's the only way to put it.
		Before I ever articulated or said one word about that on the air, Daniel Brinkley began to call the house.
		Generally at times when I wasn't awake, and he was talking to my wife, Ramona.
		And he was telling her that something was wrong with me.
		Again, this is before I said anything on the air, and Ramona finally told him, yes, Daniel, there is something really seriously wrong.
		But I can't tell you, and I won't tell you.
		It's up to art to tell you.
		And it was getting to the point where Daniel was calling the house and saying, if you don't tell me what it is, or if art doesn't tell me, or if I don't come to a resolution, I'm going to come out there, physically come out there, and see art because I know something is terribly wrong.
		And I'm telling you, this man has a gift.
		He knew that something was incredibly, incredibly wrong, and he wasn't about to let go of me until I told him.
		And I have now told him what it's all about.
		He knows what has happened.
		I sort of laid it all out here just a few days ago, finally.
		But Daniel Brinkley knew, and I think I mentioned this on the air at some point, that Daniel Brinkley knew, not what had happened, but he just somehow, intuitively, somehow knew something horrible was wrong.
		Daniel, so I'm pretty curious, Daniel.
		How did you know?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I can just feel it.
		There are people who are close or I think that are really important to world events, and I can scan them.
		And when I get to a certain place, when I stop in the evening or after long days on the road, and I get in, then I stop and I use a system that I learned from the other side about sending out love.
		I could pick up it had to do with family.
		I could, because I was telling Ramona, I could pick up it had to do with family, and it was like a family that you had but didn't have now and, you know, hidden and missing.
		But I could feel the deep sorrow, anger, and frustration.
		And I was not going to stop until I knew what it was, because I think an awful lot of you and Ramona because you're good people, but also the work that you're doing.
		And, you know, like I told Ramona, you know, I may sound like I'm crazy, but I'm not going to stop till he tells me if I have to come out and jerk it out of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the truth, folks.
		That's exactly.
		And then, and finally, of course, I began to make some noises on the air, and I still really, I can't talk about it.
		And it's still going on.
		It's not over, and it's not even resolved, and it may resolve in a not very nice way.
unidentified		Well, let's hope not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		What is going to have to happen is going to have to happen, Daniel.
		You know that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'm only, I'm in, you know, I can't change destiny, and I can understand a lot of that.
		I can understand it.
		But when you think about the panoramic life review, then the focus changes.
		And, I mean, I'm with you in any way you go on that, but since we can't talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you knew it, though.
		That's the whole point.
		I mean, you knew it, and I am blown away by that fact.
		You have that gift, and that's still with you, isn't it?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I use it.
		Everybody around me, and, you know, on all my lectures, I demonstrate not only that I can do it, but how you can learn to do it.
		And that I believe that we all have these inner natures that we don't activate for a lot of reasons.
		But when you find the right reason, mine was just activated.
		And I've spent 20 years studying it, either from too much electricity or since we're electrical chemical, or that we can expand out.
		Once we know the expansive nature of our spirituality, then these are byproducts of it.
		But I believe that everybody's capable of doing it, because if I can do it, anybody can do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does this power come from, Dave?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It comes from realizing the deep spiritual nature of yourself, but it's innately built into your systems.
		I mean, as a physical mental being.
		I don't think that what I do is able to perceive things like I could describe things, and I used to have people write words on pieces of paper, and it's not a gimmick.
		I could read the, if they could see it, I could read it.
		And when they were going to do the movie Saved by the Light, we were met in Las Vegas because I was at a convention there, and we just walked down the tables, and eight times out of ten times, I could name the card that the blackjack dealer had, but only five times out of ten times could I pick the color of the card.
		It told me back the other way, and I had to figure out, try to figure out how I was able to do that, but what I realized is the blackjack dealer doesn't care what color it is.
		He only cares about the numbers to get to 21.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		So it's me studying how it works more so than worrying about if I have it.
		But I think we all have this.
		I write about them in the books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, let me stop you because, all right, everybody by now probably has 10 pieces of paper and 10 pens.
		I hope your two books, Saved by the Light, the first about what occurred to you when you were struck by lightning, and A Piece in the Light.
		I take it that was a book written after the second.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It was, because I realized, when I wrote the first book, you know, you're telling people what a miserable bastard you are, and you kind of hold some things back.
		And then after I wrote the first book, and so many people wrote me hundreds of thousands of letters, well, not hundreds of thousands, like 106,000 letters to the date.
		And they would write to me and tell me how much it helped them in dealing with losing children and losing their parents and how the techniques and the things that I described really helped them and that I was honest and open about who I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Danion, people must come to you now.
		Anybody with a gift like yours, people must come to you and they want to know things about themselves and their future and their health and their life.
		And people come to you and what do you do?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I usually deal with, I've taken this skill or gift and I deal with people who are losing loved ones and those people who are in transition.
		You know, I'm in hospice and I started the foundation called CIA, which is Compassion in Action.
		And I teach people the technique so that when someone's getting ready to leave this world and they're family members and they can't quite come together to have closure, then to pick up what's worrying the family members as well as the person leaving is what I do with it.
		You know, a lot of people come to me a lot of times for stuff that you're describing, but I don't think that that's where I best serve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is not where you generally use the gift then.
		No, I use it.
		You've been working in hospices for how long?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		18 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Working with people who are dying for 18 years?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		155 people.
		I have my 155th now.
		I will see her tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that you're doing this all the time.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's all over the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you do this without there being a price?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a price to you when you do it, or is it a joy for you?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
		It's where I make the most amount of difference that I can come into a situation when I know you don't die and I don't push any issue on anybody.
		But I'm able to watch that family member.
		I know what they're going through.
		I studied the dynamics.
		That's what I write in my book.
		How do you make decisions and how do you deal with it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Daniel, we're at the top here.
		Thanks, hey.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		When you first came my way, I said no one could take your way.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt.
		You're listening to Ark Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ever wonder why I like this song so much?
		It's because we all are going right back where we started from.
		That's what we're talking about this morning.
		Has that dawned on you yet?
		That's where we're all going.
		And the other part of it, it's all about love, isn't it?
		Anyway, that's why.
unidentified		Square
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM All right, my guest is Daniel Brinkley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hours we've been through are, I think, very self-explanatory, and we're about to go to the phones.
		So if you have a question for Daniel, it's a good time.
		You can begin calling now.
		Daniel is in Charleston, South Carolina, and I've got something that I want to read for him.
		And then he can comment.
		Then we'll go to the phones.
		This says, Dear Art, please ask Mr. Brinkley if he can comment on the following dream.
		I walk outside and discovered that my cats have captured a bird.
		I think, oh, God, I can't deal with this, and so I go back inside.
		After a minute, I decide to go and check the situation out and hope the bird is dead.
		But I discover it's still alive.
		So I pick it up and notice it's a dove.
		And although its wing is broken, its eyes are clear, and I know its soul is intact.
		I bring the bird in the house and sit with it on the floor.
		The bird is traveling across my chest and up by my neck caressing me, and after a while drops down to my lap.
		The bird then starts to jump off my lap, at which time my cats reappear and begin to lunge at the bird.
		I keep pushing the cats back, but finally I have to let the bird know that it will be safe only inside the perimeter of my reach.
		I wake up and know that the bird was also myself.
		Interesting, huh?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		That makes a lot of sense.
		This is a person looking at how to protect their spiritual self and watching at all the things out there that's hurt it.
		It's like a person who's gone through an experience of being hurt and yet refinding how to protect themselves like a bad relationship or something like that.
		But this person is reestablishing her protection and control of herself again.
		She's bringing back control of herself.
		You know, a lot of times, the dream state is when we put together a lot of our stuff that we go through.
unidentified		When you realize how spiritual that you are, Art, truly spiritual.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		We are spiritual beings.
		We function in this environment for a certain period of time and then we return where we came from.
		And that dream, as I listen to it from, I'm not a psychoanalyst, but as I feel the dream and I listen to it, it's her after being hurt reprotecting herself and giving herself the permission to guard herself and to bring herself safely back into her own personal self.
		I'm really glad she had this dream.
		I mean, I'm happy and I hope that where it takes her is her always understanding that that dove is her spiritual self and the broken wing must represent mending your spiritual self so you can better maintain it where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought it was well said, well written, and I just thought you should hear it.
		Let's go to the phones, Daniel.
		There's a lot of people who want to talk to you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Daniel Brinkley.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Art, I wanted to ask you a question, and then I want to talk to Daniel Brinkley very quickly.
		Did you hear about Shoemaker's accident today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I reported on that a couple of hours ago.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I didn't tune in until 12.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Automobile accident.
unidentified		Right.
		I'm terribly sorry.
		I wanted to tell you, too, that we love you, and we have lots of prayers going out for you.
		Whatever your problems are, there are problems.
		Well, thank you.
		And Danion, in 1971, July 31st, I had a really strange incident happen to me in a boating accident and was thrown out of the raft at the Kern River pinned against the seaman abutment and my life jacket was also held down by a tree and water was pouring in my mouth.
		I knew I was dead.
		And the next thing I know I turned into a fish.
		This is the weirdest thing that it happened and the hole underneath of the river lit up and somehow I wiggled out of my jacket and they picked me up three miles down the river green and dead and I was revived.
		I've had some incredible experiences since then and being extremely sensitive making me very aware of my surroundings, my people, my family.
		And I seem now to want to help people and reach out and see if I can't relieve some of their stress and pain in situations like you were talking about.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I think that's wonderful.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about you turning into a fish.
unidentified		Well, it was the weirdest thing.
unidentified		There's no way I could have gotten out of the jacket as it was.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		But you see, I can imagine when I hear you talking, when you lift into that blue-gray place or that place where I was floating or where a lot of people describe it as though they're in water or they're buoyant or they're floating, I can see how that would be the first place that you would think of as this floating period started, as you watch the place, the bottom of the lake or the river turn to bright light.
		A lot of people just all of a sudden see the bright light.
		They move down a tunnel or they're not aware that that's what they're doing in the bright light.
		And then you come back.
		You're not afraid of dying.
unidentified		No.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And you find a sense of really wanting to help people.
		That is one of the truest experiences that comes from people who've really had it.
		I've seen people who were reacting from hallucinations.
		It doesn't really change them.
		But then those who have this experience become a caring, more loving because they want to help mankind, because they're really helping themselves.
		So what you should do is be comfortable that you came back and take that sense of security and confidence to help people.
		That's our real point.
		The more that we can care and give love and give support to the world around us, we're really caring and giving support to ourselves, for we are part of this world.
		That's where that togetherness comes and that wholeness comes.
		And if you start by helping someone who is facing the final days and who does not have the confidence that you have in that you're not dying, you find a new value of yourself.
		You become the difference in spirit that you can make in the lives of people.
		And it really becomes the delight.
		Like people ask me what religious faith I am.
		I am a hospice volunteer.
		Where two or more gather in thy name, so shall thou be among us.
unidentified		Absolutely.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And that's as close as it can get.
unidentified		I love it.
		I had a chance to talk to Dr. Palaglini.
		I can't pronounce her name.
		Palaglini.
		Right.
		What a wonderful lady today.
		I was very fortunate to get through and speak with her.
		And there's so many people in the movement of helping and caring.
		And I see such a change in the world.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I think who we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
		Ma'am, thank you.
		We're going to have to run, but thank you very much.
		And Daniel, here's a facts question, and I'd like you to tackle this myself.
		You probably can't tackle it, but it's worth asking.
		Art, if appropriate, and in the context of this program, I don't know if we'd ever get to it, please ask Daniel what comments he might have about animals, pets in particular, spiritually, how they relate to humans in this life and maybe the next.
		Have you ever thought about that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I've never, I didn't see animals when I was over on the other side.
		But living around this for 21 years, I've heard a lot of people recount that their animals and loved ones were there.
		But when they describe it, it's a little different from, you know, your pet chihuahua.
		It's that love transcends all things.
		And that love and that bond cannot be broken by what we call death.
		You cannot break the bond.
		And so I've heard a lot of people, I mean, a lot of cases of people describing that their animals were there.
		And I'm talking about bankers and people who have a very left brain psychology who come back and are amazed at that.
		So love passes all things.
		And I don't have any doubt that if you love something here, when you make that transition in the form that it truly is, that love will be there again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Daniel Brinkley.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Daniel?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm calling to acknowledge you for what you're doing.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		I understand fully that we come here to serve, and that's the priority.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Period.
unidentified		Service is paramount.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It gives you back your whole self.
		It gives you a value.
		When you go help someone who has nothing to give but their love, you find the value of your love.
		And once you have that, you begin to have a basis to take control of your life and to deal with people, to put people in your life or take people out of your life because of the value you've received from helping someone who couldn't really give you anything back except thanks and their love.
		That changed me.
		And to see the look in a lady's eyes who's lying in a bed, who's hurt so bad and she's frightened, and when she sees me, she smiles.
		And for those brief moments that she has that moment where she's cared about and loved and that I'm there, that makes all the difference in my life.
unidentified		How can that be bought?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		There's no power.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And remember when you look at the panoramic life of you, one day I'm going to be her looking up at me.
unidentified		She is you.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		That's what I figured.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		When you know the panoramic life of you, it becomes.
unidentified		Because there is no separateness.
unidentified		They are us.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, thanks a lot for, you know, really thinking and to call me and to tell me that because I'm trying.
		And that's all any of us can do, but I'm trying as hard as I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Daniel Brinkley.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
		Good morning, sir.
		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		My local AM channel here was on the blank earlier and stuff.
unidentified		What happened with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's really nothing I can discuss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Personal something, yeah.
unidentified		Where are you?
		my heart goes out to you.
		Thank you.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Utica, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utica, New York.
unidentified		Yeah, my heart goes out to you and your wife, if anything, you know.
		I wanted to ask your guest, what is the, I got two questions, actually.
		What does he think about reincarnation?
		And what does he think about in Revelations when it talks about the dead coming back to life and having a second chance and all that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, reincarnation, I'm not really sure about, but we were talking earlier from Brian Weiss and Winifred Lucas and reading a lot of the research that's being done in regression therapy by prominent physicians.
		And knowing people who recall past lives at the same time, who happen to be friends of mine that I meet along the way, I have to begin to look at it.
		But I'm not really sure.
		I know about the death process when it concerns one, but it would seem to me like it'd be a waste if we didn't have more options and more chances at growth.
		I don't think we keep coming back to correct all the bad things we've done.
		I think we keep coming back if we do that to create more opportunity.
		And second, in the book of Revelations, it talks about when the Christ would come back to raise up their own.
		That was the whole nature of creating coffins and the whole system that we call burial.
		But when they talk about that the dead will rise up and ascend, and they will take you in your heavenly host body or something close to that.
		I don't really, I think that that's supposed to be translated for us to think that at a certain point when this Christ consciousness comes, like what Edgar Casey says in 1978 in Egypt and what people are saying that the Aquarian age, from the Pisan Age to the Aquarian Age, and all these concepts about it.
unidentified		The quickening.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And the quickening.
		And once that happens, that we would all become aware that there's not a death so much to say, but that it represented a symbolic way that we shut ourselves off from all our true spiritual knowledge of ourselves because that was what was required for the job at hand to be done.
		I mean, that's how I interpret that.
		I'm not afraid.
		I've listened and looked at religions and every concept from afterlife to where the coffin was invented to keep the spirit locked in.
		When you look at the development of coffins and burials, now we lock them in a hemostatically sealed box, then we put them in concrete, then we bury them in the ground, waiting for someone to take us back hook.
		That sounds the craziest stuff I ever heard in my life.
unidentified		What about the pyramids?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about?
		It's interesting that you should ask about the pyramids in Egypt.
		I don't want to lay this out just yet after the bottom of the hour, but Daniel, all my life I have been drawn, drawn, drawn to the pyramids in Egypt.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Easy to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going, leaving October 1st on a very important trip for me.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is there some chance, any chance, you'll be over there then?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'm working exactly toward that.
unidentified		I would miss this for the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		You have been there many, many times.
		Absolutely.
		I haven't.
		What is it about the pyramids?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		The pyramids are a breathtaking spiritual dynamic.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And it also is a monument to man's abilities to try to interpret and to create these monuments or whatever created these monuments to truly appreciate the magnitude of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Daniel Brinkley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Good evening, gentlemen.
		Pleasure to be with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		My name is John.
unidentified		I'm calling from Scottsdale, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, John.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Josh.
unidentified		Hi, which, of course, where we have maybe 24 hours to have life as we know it.
unidentified		Anyway, we shall see.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		My co-author, Paul Perry, lives there, a very wonderful guy.
unidentified		Ah, well, it's a nice place to live.
unidentified		I just wanted to ask you, either of you, actually, either both of you, whether you are familiar with the books of George Meek, After We Die, What Then, followed books by John G. Fuller, Ghost of 29 Megacycles, wherein they attempt to use, like as a combination of channeling and actual technical equipment to communicate with the dead with some actual measurable results.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you say about 29 megahertz?
unidentified		The Ghost of 29 Megacycles is a book by John G. Fuller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, I've got to read that.
unidentified		Oh.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, The Fish Bas in Germany.
		I've heard of these people.
		And I've been to a conference.
		I went to a conference in Brazil a few years ago where people were using computer televisions and hookups to communicate with the world.
unidentified		It's actually fascinating.
unidentified		It seems that much like remote viewing, there is some very solid scientific ground that they're actually doing.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		There's a worldwide organization that has done this and recorded this.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I was watching one of the Fishbox's most famous cases of some guy talking to them from a house, and he was living in the 13th century, and yet this house was in the 80s.
unidentified		Wow.
		But most of the European studies, I understand, produced only short bursts of intelligible messages, whereas this gentleman, George Meek, who was actually an engineer, was able to produce some lengthy, detailed conversations with people on the other side.
		He describes quite a layer cake of existences that we can look forward to in that book.
		And I think it would be of great interest and certainly as far as I know, nothing's happened with these people for quite a long time.
		I don't know what became of the push to get this to happen.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, the organizations still exist.
		And since the fishbows are Germans, and a lot of German technology has been going into it, I've got a chance, John, from I've heard of this, and I even went to the conference and I watched it.
		I don't understand it, but I've watched it and seen it from pretty credible perspectives of science.
		What I enjoy most about having this life that I have, that I get a chance to be around so many people, to ask and watch so many possibilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do either one or both of you actually believe that one day, through spiritualism or science or a combination thereof, we actually might break down the barrier between that side and this side?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or is that a forever barrier?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely what?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		We shall break down that barrier.
unidentified		I believe we shall.
unidentified		We have already begun to do that.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I agree with John 100%.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I have no question.
unidentified		Goes right along with your quickening and with your destined to accomplish this.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		We came here to do that.
		And in the course of everything that pulls us in every direction, we will succeed at that.
		We will succeed with lifting that veil and becoming more aware of our spiritual size and dimensions.
		I think the near-death experience affords one of the greatest opportunities for that to happen just by looking at it and realizing that people down the street will be the ones who will convince you.
unidentified		Isn't that something?
		You talk about something wonderful.
		What could be more wonderful than that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I can't think of anything.
		I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
		That's why I went the second near-death experience, I chose to come back.
		I saw the difference that one person could make in a period of time that was literally one of the most remarkable periods of time in spiritual, emotional, and physical history of the earth plane and of our levels of consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Caller, I've got to say thank you, and I've got to ask Daniel to hold on.
		Caller, thank you very much.
		That was a really, really good call.
		Can you imagine if everything between here and there broke down?
		They both think it'll happen.
		Can you imagine?
unidentified		You're listening to ArkVell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		18, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from July 18, 1997.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncour presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 18th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wish the people down along Louisiana, Alabama, Florida Panhandle area well.
		There is a Force One hurricane bearing down on them, and it's kind of hard to know what it's going to do.
		It's got a lot of warm water.
		It could build.
		It could become very dangerous.
		It could be okay.
		This is going to be a rough hurricane season.
		It's going to be a rough season for weather period, and it's not going to get better.
		It's going to get worse.
		That's what I think.
		It is worsening.
		Actually, we're in the middle of it now.
		It is the quickening.
unidentified		The End Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now, you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Now we take you back to the night of July 18, 1997, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell We're going back now to Daniel Brinkley, but just as we do, I want to recap what other guests have said on this program with respect to what they believe is going on in Egypt.
		We have photographs on the website which document and on the Enterprise Mission website, Mr. Hoagland's, which show or appear to show a tunnel, a very serious tunnel, being dug in the Great Pyramid.
		The consensus was that this tunnel was being dug from the King's chamber to the Queen's chamber.
		There are several very damning photographs, one which appears to show a security camera, normally pointed outward to see what might be going on, turned to the wall.
		There are photographs of large electric lines running up inside the Great Pyramid, which people have reported are warm, indicating a great deal of current is being drawn, indicating there is digging going on.
		We have pictures of this tunnel.
		We have testimony from people indicating this digging is going on.
		We have photographs of bags of limestone being taken out of the Great Pyramid, indicating also that there is a dig that nobody knows about going on.
		All of this has been on the air and is reverberating loudly in Egypt right now.
		My name, that of Mr. Baval and Hancock and Hoagland and others are being bandied about quite heavily in Egypt at the moment.
		And I passed all this on to Daniel, who said, okay, Daniel has a good relationship with Zahi Hawass.
		And he called Zahi Hawass, who returned his call earlier today.
		And I guess, Daniel, you laid all this out for Zahi, is that correct?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I, you know, I've met Zahi Hawass for a long time going there, and I know everybody else, but I don't think I have as much vested in what people are saying.
		And I just called him on the phone.
		But also this tour, I have other friends, Abbas, Sahawat, people who live there and who live and work around the pyramids every day.
		They'll know what's going on.
		And I call them, and I ask them, because I didn't know if I would talk to Dr. I mean Zahi, Dr. Awass.
		But the word, when I asked him, I said, what's going on?
		And I asked two other people what they had heard was going on.
		And they said that everything that they're hearing, everything that I asked them was true, except that the tunnel that they think is being dug between the king and the queen's chamber is not being dug.
		They've discovered what they think to be two or three rooms above the king's chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And this is what is the most remarkable.
		For years, they never thought anything about it, but they're discovering this.
		The power cables that I asked about, and they said, look, normally you go twice a day.
		There are people who prepare in advance to buy a program that you can go inside the Great Pyramid.
		Whoever took these pictures was a person inside on a tourist visit with walking over these cables where the excavation was going on and people could see it.
		And they were excited about it over there.
		And when I was listening to all that kind of stuff, I think back to the mindset that from watching for years, Dr. Zahi Awas loves the Giza Plateau.
		And he loves it.
		And he's very protected of it.
		And with what he does, he's trying to fix it and preserve it and to go step by step.
		And he told me, I asked him, I said, Zahi, then why are everybody acting this way?
		And he says, well, it's just that same stuff that goes on.
		He said, but you can come right now and I will show it to you.
		We're trying to get enough light up in there because of how the script and the hieroglyphics on the wall to find out what period it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		There's hieroglyphics on the wall?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are writings on the walls, and they're trying to get enough light in there so that they can read this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying there's five chambers or rooms?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		No, they know there's one, but they think there's at least three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Above the king's chamber.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, can you see Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's a total mind-blower?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It's even wilder.
		Listen, it's getting wilder.
		The whole part of watching this going toward 1998 is why it's so interesting to me.
		And watching how fast things are unfolding, what sometimes took 20 years before they discovered anything.
		They're discovering it.
		And I can hear the sense of excitement.
		I can hear it because I know Zay and I know these people who are around there.
		And I can listen to the excitement, which they keep contained a lot of dealing with what Graham and Robert and John and just the things that, I mean, I hear stories, you know, I hear all the bad guy stories, this Larry Hunter guy.
		I heard two or three stories that two people told me about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, let me ask you this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Zahi is telling you the truth?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is, it's such big news that you would think that if they've discovered chambers, I mean, that's extremely exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way, it's extremely exciting, whether they're digging up or down.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're clearing out a lot of debris.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they've just, you know, a lot of debris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that ought to be in the papers.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		But not yet.
		First things, when you look at an archaeological dig, you see what you have.
		You don't just run out and tell the world you discovered something without like an archaeologist.
		And when you look at the mindset of Egyptology archaeologists, they're pretty painstaking about this.
		I mean, I've watched the way they do it and seen when they uncovered the laborers' camps and the amazement of it.
		First you see what you have.
		You don't create wide speculation.
		These people who know about this were one of two groups a day that all can go there and it can't be more than like 35 or 40 people.
		And they were just one of these tourist groups and they took photographs and they're blowing It out of proportion.
		I believe this.
		You know, Art, after going there for years and years and years and having a rapport with these people, because I go back and I give back and I work in these orphanages and I really try to support the stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have an orphanage in Cairo, don't you?
unidentified		Yeah.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Support these issues and I try to give back to these people because they're there guarding treasures of the whole world the best they know-how with the money that they have.
		And every time I hear this stuff, it's not the person that I know or the things that I go and see.
		I have seen things that are more wilder, that are wilder that's unfolding over there than I even hear on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I know that you're close to Zahi, so you may not want to answer this, or you may want to answer it, or respond to it, or not.
		It doesn't matter, but I'll say it anyway.
		There are charges made by people that organizations, institutions, people with money are invited to Giza to do experimental work, to do X-ray spectrophylogy, all that sort of thing, looking inward toward an exploration of this or that.
		And a lot of money is spent.
		People go over there and do that preliminary work and then get tossed out of Giza with the follow-up work then being done by Zahi and company.
		Would you respond to that?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can look at it from all the experience.
		I can't say that maybe that has not happened.
		I can't say that because there's a lot of things that goes on in digs and sites and universities and people with grants.
		And I'm not saying that if there was a major discovery that someone in the hierarchy of Egyptology, like in any other one, tries to take more credit than the other.
		I mean, there's a lot of competition and pride in those kinds of politics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of politics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of politics.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of politics in those kinds of professions.
		But I've never had any dealings with Zahi or the whole antiquities department that wasn't within the mindset that I thought was reasonable and respectable.
		Now, with all the people, with the lack of funds to do the job, a lot of times they have to work on things with groups and organizations of people that they may not particularly want to work with, and then it may get a little sticky in between the two, and then they throw them off because just sitting and having a meal with Zai and just listening and talking to him about 30 times a year from all over the world,
		someone comes knowing all the answers to the pyramids and that dolphins build them.
		So you wouldn't believe some of the stuff that I hear that the staff would tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there are two ways of looking at what is Adiza.
		One is that it is Egypt.
		Egypt is a sovereign nation.
		Egypt has a right to do the exploration.
		It is their country, as we regard our country as sovereign.
		They regard theirs sovereign.
		And we have no business demanding, in effect, that all of this be immediately made available and public to everybody.
		The other view is that the pyramids eclipse anybody's sovereignty, and what is there belongs to the world.
unidentified		I agree with both of those.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I agree with both of them because for me, I go to Egypt because I'm drawn there too.
		And I go there because its whole half its history is the afterlife and how you prepare for it, even to the descriptions of the pyramids.
		And I listen to Egyptologists talk, and what I've seen to it, what appears to me, Art, is that everybody on the outside are trying to take away the sovereignty of this nation as it struggles to restore, understand, and put into perspective these magnificent monuments.
		These magnificent monuments that are so true.
		And when you look at them, there had to be such precision that built them.
		And then when you look at everybody's description of the chamber, there's like a hundred different descriptions of the king's chamber as well as the queen's chamber.
		And then there are writings in the pyramids that talk about Khufu.
		And then there's another intrigue, like the schools and the mystical schools and the things that are around and are yet to be discovered and the things that are being discovered.
		It's a multitude of things.
		But we have to take a look at the fact that a lot of the things that I hear, and some are pretty remarkable, I've read their books and they're pretty good, well-researched books, but they don't take into consideration that these are people who have this and it maybe symbolizes what their entire country is, and they are scientific archaeologists and they're also defending the sovereignty of their country.
		I get a chance, Art, to talk to a lot of people.
		One time I just like to do a show of the things that I've come across in 21 years of exploring this, just like talking to Dr. Hawaz, and then he will call me back.
		And I don't buy into anybody's issues.
		I'm watching and looking at it because I see miracles and stuff in that desert unfold every day and because a lot of what the Casey readings are, this chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it that you think eventually may be found there?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it will be found.
unidentified		The chamber that they describe, it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, though, will be there?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		It'll be a whole complete different history of the world.
		All that we've heard from science and that kind of business and every way we've taught where we came from and how all this evolved.
		I mean, the old age, old Atlantean stories, there is something like that there.
		And it will be discovered, and it will be discovered in the next two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you comfortable that when it is, it'll be made public, or will it be such sacred secret information that they will consider the world is not ready for or that they don't want to share with the world that it will not be shared.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		That's a possibility because, you know, there's a lot of influence that affect the Egyptian economy and the world from an outside pressure from other Arab countries in the Arab League, the United States, and the needs.
		You know, you have to remember that there are a lot more things at work than the Egyptians trying to hide one of the greatest treasures.
		It will leak out.
		There is too much that goes on.
		There are too many people who know.
		This is not the 20s or the 30s.
		I can call and ask.
		I mean, I trust Zahia Wass because I know this man and I watch him and I see how hard he works and I've been in his office and I've been with him in dinner and I've talked to him over the years.
		This is a good man.
		There's no question in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you know Zahiyawass well enough that if he were laying down a story for you, you'd know it.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Oh, in a minute.
		I wouldn't even have to know him well enough, Art.
		I'm really famous for being able to tell the difference.
		I can hear it in a person's voice.
		But remember this, I can also talk to 15 other people that work around that site.
		And I can piece the story together no matter what.
		And Zahi's story is always this.
		He's a little abrupt.
		I mean, you know, he doesn't carry on long, lingering conversations.
		He's a little sharp-witted.
		He gets to the point very fast.
unidentified		And he's an Egyptian, you know.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		And when you take all that cultural nature and perspective and put it into place, you find a really great man.
		I like being around him.
		I like talking to him.
		And I like being able to go, if I need to know something, I'm really wondering about it.
		I'm not a researcher.
		It's just that I want to keep a very level head about what's going on.
		I've had a guy take me there and him give me a little pass and let me go and look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, either way, whether it is as has been described by others and they're digging down or as you're telling me now that they found new chambers above, it's a gigantic story either way.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, oh man, big story.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Wait till it comes.
		What happens?
		Think of this.
		They're not only clearing away all that rubbish.
		That's what the guy is seeing that they're moving, because they want to get up and see what the writings are because they never knew about it before.
		You know, and I may not have it 100% accurate, but I'm far more accurate than the story that I heard that you were putting out because I don't have to listen to it second or third-hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have photographs of certain things.
		Now, what that means is where the difference is.
		They conclude they're digging down.
		You're saying the exact opposite.
		They're going above the King's Chamber.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they've discovered there's something above.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But either way, it's a big story, Danny.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it wonderful?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		All right, folks, we're at the end of a program.
		I want to repeat for you your offer, save by the light and at peace in the light, hardbacks, the originals that you somehow, I guess you got copies and saved them or something?
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I did.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I bought a lot of them because I knew that a time would come when I would come to people that I wanted to have them or to offer them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it always is, Daniel, it has been a great pleasure and honor to save with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I hope that we can meet at Giza or maybe before.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe both.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		I recommend that anyone who gets the opportunity to make that pilgrimage, to make it.
		I mean, I go myself, and I just recommend anybody, and I'm going to talk to everybody I know over there out there to help facilitate it.
		And, you know, I go probably right after that, so if they can't catch you, they can go with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Excellent.
		Daniel, bless your heart.
		Thanks for being here.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, man.
		And listen, my heart goes out to you.
		I will be calling you and following up.
		Keep loving your mind.
		Keep lowering your heart, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		You too, brother.
unidentified		Good night, Daniel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's it for now, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert, Cactus Country, I'm Art Bell.

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