Art Bell hosts Robert Anton Wilson under a full moon, exploring the Illuminati’s origins—from Adam Weishaupt’s 1776 Freemasonry group to fringe theories like CIA androids and the Priory of Sion’s ties to global banking. Wilson dismisses mainstream explanations for UFOs and crop circles (e.g., heat inversions), citing 1,000+ universities studying ESP since the early 20th century. Major Ed Dames warns of catastrophic ozone depletion causing bee blindness by 2000, leading to global starvation, while linking Roswell’s "Greys" to controlled crashes testing human reactions. Callers debate fringe science—from variable light speed to Israel’s alleged USS Liberty attack—amid Bell’s skepticism and Wilson’s chaotic Discordian optimism, suggesting conspiracy theories thrive in uncertainty but may reveal deeper systemic truths. [Automatically generated summary]
Whether it's evening or morning from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Islands in the west to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands eastward, south into South America, north to the Pole worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Marbell.
Great to be here.
Coming up this evening for a while is somebody that so many of you have requested that I have on.
His name is Robert Anton Wilson.
Robert Anton Wilson is an author, has written 31 books, including his soon-to-be-released Encyclopedia of Conspiracies.
He's written books on the Illuminati, the New Inquisition.
He's written books on scientific theories rejected by the establishment.
He has examined that which runs around as, I don't know, something between myth and reality and rumor.
It should be an interesting evening, to say the least.
And there are lots and lots of endless topics that we could discuss in this arena.
And so that, my friend, is what's coming up in a moment.
Otherwise, I want to remind you that we have some very, very interesting crop circle photographs on the web for you to see.
And if you have not yet seen them, I would suggest you go on up there.
And once again, anybody out there who has got, and by the way, if we don't yet have it, there is a crop circle in Oregon shown on CNN earlier in the day that is, I think, of particular significance and a notch up from the one in Oregon that we have exclusive photographs of.
So I would love to get any photographs that anybody has, original photographs, aerial photographs, and we're beginning to collect them ourselves.
Now, does it make sense to you, it certainly will, if one of these conspiracies that we are probably about to discuss, and oh, there's some wild ones going around right now on the internet, I'll tell you, should come true.
Well, all right, now comes Robert Anton Wilson.
Robert, welcome to the show.
Nice to be on your show, Art.
Glad to have you.
Over the months and even the last couple of years, Robert, everybody kept emailing me and sending me messages and faxes saying you've got to have Robert Anton Wilson on.
And so finally, somebody gave me a phone number and I got in contact with you and here you are.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
31 books, that's a bunch.
Who are you and what's your background?
Well, back in the 60s, I was associate editor of Playboy for about five and a half years.
Oh, really?
unidentified
Then I started writing full-time.
My first major work was Illuminatus, written in collaboration with Robert Shea.
Illuminatus was a three-volume comic, melodramatic science fiction trilogy with a lot of facts in it, so that most readers weren't sure how much was real and how much was fiction.
Oh, you wrote the book, so you grabbed some of it from mythology and rumor and conspiracy theory and all the rest of it, and just sort of wove it into some of what you knew to be true.
Is that about it?
unidentified
Well, I was working for Playboy, as I said, and the Playboy Foundation deals with civil liberties cases.
Well, this still does not tell me, though, what they're all about.
I mean, are they some sort of string-pullers behind governments, or what is the theory?
unidentified
Well, there's not one theory.
There's a variety of theories about them.
One theory is that they are black magicians, Satanists, monsters.
They're serving the devil.
Another theory is that they are conspirators who want to take over the world, and they're working in cahoots with the international bankers, and they produced all the wars and revolutions and ups and downs of the last 200 years as part of a big plan to form one world government with themselves at the head of it.
Well, what else are they to say when you make an appearance?
unidentified
Well, you know, they may be right.
I've read, you know, Phil Dick was a great science fiction writer and a friend of mine.
He pointed out a perfect android to replace somebody would think they were that somebody because they'd have all the memories and all the same impulses and intellectual activities as the person they were replacing.
The really sad thing is we're getting enough technology to where that actually soon, if not now, may be possible.
unidentified
Well, there was a chap back in the 80s.
I don't know if he's still doing, still putting it out.
He used to have a conspiracy newsletter, a fellow named Peter Beter of all things.
And he claimed the Soviet Union, who was still the number one enemy in those days, they were killing American politicians one by one and replacing them with androids.
He managed to offend everybody, including I think that's a marvelous achievement to offend so many people and to get upheld by the Supreme Court.
Well, Bob Guccione's publication presently would like to interview me.
And Hustler is Bob Guccione.
So I thought about it, and I said, I'll tell you what.
You tell Bob Guccione, he comes on my program and does an interview for me, and I'll let you interview me.
So we're going to trade.
We'll see if we're going to trade.
I'd love to have Bob on talk about it.
It is, How do you come down on the whole First Amendment thing as it relates to, say, something like Hustler, a notch deeper than Playboy or two?
unidentified
Well, I'm very much in favor of the First Amendment.
I think it's one of the best parts of the Constitution, and I hate to see anybody monkeying around with it.
I agree with the late Justice Black, who said that the founding fathers, as judged by the Constitution and by their diaries, letters, and other public documents, were all very careful and eloquent masters of the English language.
What have you done that generally has most irritated people, do you think?
unidentified
Well, in the New Inquisition, I pointed out that some of the behavior of some of the scientific community is not unlike the behavior of the Catholic Church in the Renaissance and the way they have tried to get rid of theories they don't like.
I've irritated a lot of people in the scientific community.
I've irritated a lot of feminists, pointing out that most of the things they write about men, if you just take out the word man and put in the word Jew, it sounds exactly like Adolf Hitler and Mein Kemp.
Actually, I take that same view with regard to broadcasting.
And it constantly gets me in trouble, but I ignore it and plow forward, and I guess you do too.
You've looked in all kinds of things like extra-century perception things that now there's something, ESP, or UFOs, or many of the things I talk about on this program that the mainstream scientific community, in concert with mainstream media, snickers at, at the least, and takes off at actively more often than not.
What have you found, as you have investigated?
Well, what I have found is that among controversial scientific theories, there's a lot more evidence for them than you generally find out from the establishment, the scientific establishment or the media establishment.
unidentified
As, for instance, ESP, there has been research on that for over 100 years at, I guess, around 1,000 universities by now, all over the world.
Half the things that go by my house go by so fast I don't know what they are.
Yeah, that's right.
All right, well, what about, let's take the big one.
Mainstream science says that everything began, Robert, when there was this little dot of matter which exploded in this Big Bang theory that created everything.
And all is flying away from that center explosion.
Do you embrace that or argue with it?
unidentified
Well, it's not a matter of embracing it or arguing with it.
And then there's the super string theory in which you had a ten-dimensional universe which split into a six-dimensional universe which has been shrinking ever since and the four-dimensional one we know which has been expanding ever since.
And I think these are all interesting speculations, but they're pretty far from the level of anything we can prove.
This is more the philosophy of science than actual science itself.
I think when you get down to engineering, you're dealing with something real or the thing falls apart and blows up on you.
unidentified
When you're dealing with cosmology, there's no real way of checking the theories in a strict way.
It's just which ones are fashionable at a given time.
So in other words, until we actually see things beginning to come closer to us, and rather than redshift, we get a different color one night, then we'll know.
Otherwise, It's all just theory.
Is that about right?
unidentified
Well, David Bohm, one of the great physicists, said maybe the laws of the universe are changing.
My guest is Robert Anton Wilson, a true Discordian.
And if I got my Flints and Guccionis mixed up, of course, it was Flint for Hustler and Guccione for Penthouse.
And Mr. Guccione's magazine would like to interview me, and I said, fine.
Let me interview him.
We'll trade interviews.
Be interesting.
People out on the edge, they're always interesting.
Robert Anton Wilson is definitely one of those.
We'll get back to him in a moment.
Back now to Robert Anton Wilson.
Robert?
Hi there.
Hi.
What is Discordia, Robert?
Well, Discordia is the Roman name for the Greek goddess Ceres, who's the goddess of chaos, discord, confusion, bureaucracy, and international relations.
In other words, president of American domestic and foreign policy.
Yes, I am a Discordian pope.
There are about 10 million Discordian popes now.
We set out in the late 60s to make every man, woman, and child on the planet a pope.
And we're still working on it.
And I'd like to take one giant step forward since you've got a very huge audience.
There's also a fellow out there somewhere who's just dubbed himself Master of the Universe, and I believe that he's selling plots on Mars and cleaning up quite well.
Well, you know, the face on Mars is actually a Discordian saint.
Yeah, well, he's a Discordian saint, and we believe the face on Mars is Mo Howard.
He has been a major influence on two planets now.
It's as good a guess as anybody else's.
Listen, there is something happening right now coming back to the internet.
Let me read you a Reuters story.
This one is apparently valid.
It says, police were put on heightened state of security Wednesday after city officials in Atlanta received an FBI warning of threats to the municipal water systems in Atlanta and other U.S. cities, according to the mayor there.
Now they're saying they have no reason to believe there might be any validity, but this is now something that's been running around on the internet.
Threats of plague, threats of plague being carried in body cavities from Iran or Iraq into U.S. cities and threats of water supplies.
My gosh, I've got Atlanta, Dallas, Tampa, Kansas City, all kinds of places mentioned here in rumors.
And now this mainstream Reuters story, somehow all of this discordant information has amassed itself into the mainstream media.
And I've got a Reuters news story here.
Could there be anything to all of this?
What do you know?
Well, I know that some people from that part of the world were convicted of blowing up or trying to blowing up parts of the World Trade Center.
So, I mean, there are Islamic movements.
I don't want to put down Islam as a whole, but there are movements within Islam that are capable of this type of thing.
I don't think they're capable of hitting a whole bunch of cities all at once.
There's not that many of them, and they're not that well organized.
Besides, the IRA has recently adopted the technique of making hoax phone calls and mounting bombs when they don't have bombs.
Once you set off a few bombs, the police can't afford to ignore any threat you make.
And once you've blown up the World Trade Center, they can't afford to ignore any other threat you make.
So they can pull endless hoaxes which will tie up police departments, create confusion, and generally bollocks up our whole system here without actually having any real germs at all.
Although they are capable of getting together enough, I suppose, to hit one city or two.
Information flow has been increasing throughout history.
And now with Internet, it's increasing faster than ever before.
So everything is becoming more and more unpredictable.
unidentified
Therefore, everything seems to be out of control.
Or if you can't accept that everything is out of control, you've got to assume there's some conspiracy that's manipulating everything.
I feel it's just a function of the speed of information traveling and new technologies arising which discombobulate the whole economic system of every economic system on the planet.
And we're going through rapid changes which nobody really understands.
And I do think it will level out eventually at a higher level of efficiency and prosperity than the human race has ever achieved before.
So if you think that the Internet and the Information Superhighway with all of its on-ramps is contributing to this, you nevertheless are optimistic you wouldn't call for stopping some of the traffic or controlling some of the traffic or doing to the Internet what they tried to do to Ms. Flynn?
unidentified
No, I think information flow, in spite of the unpredictability it creates, also creates the possibility of greater and greater success in terms of doing more with less, which is a phrase President Clinton has taken to using lately.
He's lifted that from Buckminster Fuller, the great mathematician and architect.
Fuller pointed out the tendency of modern technology is to do more and more with less and less, which means greater and greater success for the whole human race.
And no matter what's wrong with you, they just give you a needle and shoot you with these little mini computers that run all through your body, examining every cell and fixing anything that's wrong with it.
unidentified
That's the direction that I think we're moving in, and that's only part of it.
The problem for me with that is that if they achieve it in 30 years, I'll be 82 and I'm not sure I want to be frozen there.
Well, if you want to follow this line of thought, if we get to the point where we can stop aging, then we're very obviously the next step, when we understand that much, the next step will be to start reversing it.
We just went through a big whoop-de-doo down in Roswell at the 50th anniversary of Roswell.
And frankly, what occurred at Roswell was kind of a joke, or at least the way it was covered in the media was a joke.
They showed endless pictures of the museum with people with strange hats and all the rest of it.
But just prior to Roswell, the most interesting thing occurred when this Colonel Haynes, I call him poor Colonel Haynes, was sent out to talk of this Roswell case closed book, which talked about dummies tossed out of something or another seven years after the supposed Roswell event.
And no matter what you think of Roswell, I'd be interested in your take on the Air Force's presentation prior to the 50th anniversary.
Why do you think they felt compelled to come out and do that?
Well, I can't begin to hazard having a look at how those people's minds work.
What they say does not always represent what they think, and what they think, God only knows.
unidentified
I certainly don't.
It's like many years ago, oh, 15 years ago, there was a case in New York involving NORAD, which is allegedly collecting money for widows and orphans in Northern Ireland, was actually running guns for the IRA.
And it turned out they were getting some of their guns from the CIA.
On the other hand, if you think about it a little bit, if that was a demonstration of their efficiency or their capability, then you have to believe that there's no chance in the world they could have kept that secret for 50 years.
Well, as Quint Eastwood said in an interview, the only reason that we haven't been overrun by all of our enemies is their armies must be just as inefficient as ours.
The Berlin Wall came down.
Communism ostensibly died in Russia, and its satellites are set free, and the world is a new place, or is it?
I was in Moscow just a couple of years ago, and about a year ago, actually.
And as I went around Moscow, I felt watched.
I didn't feel free.
As a matter of fact, it's not a very safe place to be, and it's not a very free place to be.
So has communism really died, or is it just taking a big, long breath?
What's going on worldwide, us versus them?
Well, I think it's comatose, moribund, and just about that.
I think the funniest thing I've read recently was one of the communist newspapers is opposing Yelson's plan to destroy the Lenin mausoleum and bury Lenin in an ordinary grave, in an ordinary graveyard.
He pointed out when they dug up Tamberlaine's grave two days later that Nazi Germany invaded Russia.
Now, this is the height of superstitious thinking, and Marxists are supposed to be materialists and realists, and so on.
Oh, listen, the Russians.
unidentified
The Russian is a god to them, and they're going to try to protect their God.
Another grand conspiracy, Robert, is that the oil companies have miles and miles of shelves with carburetors that get incredible amounts of mileage, that there is free energy, alternative energy, fuel cells that are available but just can't be developed or are being suppressed by the big oil companies.
What do you have to say about it?
I am inclined to believe a great deal of that.
I know they keep spending money on big full-page ads telling us solar power can't be developed yet.
It'll take another 40 years.
And yet I know of a friend in West Virginia who built a solar-powered house.
I know a friend in Santa Barbara, California who has a solar-powered house.
And I met somebody in Dallas recently who told me there's a whole suburb of Dallas that's solar-powered.
Really?
I think there's a great deal of money invested in the old petroleum technology, and they don't want us developing any better technologies, cheaper, more efficient, less polluting, until they've got the last penny out of the last drop of oil.
Well, it's my understanding that at present levels of usage, we've got about 40 or 45 years left of fossil fuels.
And I think they want to make sure we spend every penny for the whole 45 years before they let us develop any better technologies.
And then at just the right moment, why all this stuff that's been held on the shelves will suddenly come forth, and they will have, by then, figured out a way to charge us large amounts of money for it.
Well, Bucky Fuller, if I may quote him again, he said the reason we don't have solar and is on a big scale is because the monopolies haven't figured out how to put a meter between us and the sun.
Yeah, there you are.
I'm sure they will, though, and I'm sure that once they do, just short of using up all of the petroleum, which we are going to need, no doubt, for plastics, there'll be a change.
What is your favorite conspiracy?
Now, you've got a book coming out, The Encyclopedia of Conspiracies.
There's a group of French aristocrats who definitely exist and definitely belong to an organization called the Priory of Scion.
And according to my research, they have helped and maybe even written some of the books exposing them.
But every book exposing them has a different theory about what the Priory of Sion is all about.
There's one book that claims they're all descended from Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene, who were married and had a son named Merave, who's buried in the south of France.
Another book claims that they are descended from matings between human beings and extraterrestrials from the star system Sirius.
Another book claims they're all gay.
And there are several other variations on it.
This one book claims they came from Atlantis and colonized France at the beginning of history.
And there's another one that says the secret is that they are in contact with a superior race who live inside the earth, which is hollow, which Jules Verne was a member and knew about.
Oh, I like that.
I like that.
And the evidence is they really exist and that they are encouraging this kind of literature about themselves for their own whimsical reasons.
And it's not all just a big joke.
They all have heavy investments in banking in France, Switzerland, England, and the United States, too.
All right, Robert, we're at the top of the hour.
We're going to go on and we'll open the phone lines into the next hour if you can stay.
As you write and investigate all these various conspiracies, Robert, one day you've got to imagine that even if 90% of them are pure bunk, one day you're going to stumble into something really serious and they're going to get you.
But actually, even if you don't write about conspiracies, most writers, no matter what they write about, they get a few crank letters every year threatening them.
unidentified
So it's just part of, it happens to golf pros, it happens to the tennis stars, it happens to anybody who gets part of the well-known.
So you don't have to write about conspiracy theories to feel a little bit paranoid.
That's true.
And even paranoids occasionally, of course, are killed.
There's a lot of strange things going on in our society.
For example, this murder of the fashion designer in Miami here the other day.
Strange stuff.
A couple of bullets to the head.
Serial killer.
Serial killers seem to be almost unique to America.
Not entirely so, but generally so.
White guys, middle-aged white guys, serial killers.
Why?
I don't know why, but it is very interesting that there is a lot of statistical clusters by which the FBI's behavioral science unit can pretty much give you a profile of what they're like.
unidentified
They do run in types, and they are, as you say, generally middle-aged.
There was one female serial killer in Sacramento a couple of years ago.
Yeah, that was an exception.
She wasn't a serial killer in the normal sense of somebody who just picks victims for the hell of it.
She was killing people in her boarding house to collect their social security.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, but there was motive there.
unidentified
Yeah, she had a, yeah, that's right.
But she did have a series, though.
Serial killers interest me because it's so interesting that predictions about them are often confirmed, which shows that even the most bizarre behaviors can be scientifically studied and predicted.
And I recently, up until last year, I guess, was a cognitive science researcher, and I can say that many people in the cognitive science, artificial intelligence community read and admire your books.
My specialty was simple computational neuroscience.
I was especially impressed with in quantum psychology.
You were talking about culture as neuro-linguistic programming.
Yes, and notions like that were fascinating.
I had two questions real quick here and one comment on the Illuminati.
I recently came across a paper by Thomas Paine written obviously during his lifetime where he said that the Illuminati, the Freemasons and so forth were all descendants of the Druids.
That when the Romans had conquered those British tribes, the Druids went underground and formed these groups.
Now we call them the Illuminati, Freemasons, and so forth.
And all the symbolism comes, or the basis of the symbolism, comes from those ancient Druidic rituals.
Well, Tom Paine knew William Blake, the lyric poet, mystic, and Blake also believed that I think a lot of people towards the end of the 18th century were trying to trace the Masons back to the Druids, but others were trying to trace them back to the mystery schools of ancient Greece or to the Knights Temple or even halfway across the world to the assassins of the Ishmaelian sect of Islam.
unidentified
There are all sorts of alternative theories.
We may not have gone far enough in that.
Well, let me ask two quick things.
You were publishing a thing called Trajectories.
And a friend of mine also was a researcher.
He had most of those copies.
And now I saw that Flatland is publishing a collection of trajectories, the best of sort of thing.
Colon slash slash www.tct.com slash percentage sign 7 and then the only capital in it, a big capital E, and then back to lowercase again, T-R-I-M-E 8, the number 8, slash R-A-W dot H-T-M-L.
We're going to have to do something about that.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I'm getting it shortened, but right now that's the necessary address.
I presume a search engine like Yahoo or whatever will, on your name, bring up that site.
Yeah, well, it's easy to remember.
It's got E prime, which is English without use of is, and it's got Prime 8, and these are both major themes in my writing.
There is a theory.
I interviewed somebody on a nanotechnology not long ago who suggested the first signs we're going to see of artificial intelligence are going to begin to appear on the net, that there will actually be a type of life form or life forms born on the net.
You think that might happen?
I think so.
I hear, I know a lot of people in the business.
I live right over the hill from Silicon Gulch, and I know a lot of them get very science fiction-ish, and they say signs of intelligence and growth are beginning to appear on the net already, like there's a mind there separate from the individual minds that are making it work, like the minds are blending into a supermind.
I don't know whether I believe that or not, but it is believed by people who really work in the field all the time.
Well, I know that it's doubling every few months now.
It's beginning to become an entity of its own.
Now, maybe that will spur an eventual life form.
I wore a funny little t-shirt last night that somebody sent me.
It said www.getalife.com.
And I thought it was Orion, so I wore it, and somebody called me or actually faxed me mid-show and said, guess what?
There is such a site.
Don't surprise me.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
So it just, when it finally gets going, it just pours forth.
Yeah, I really believe there's something even deeper than the Freudian unconscious.
There's another mind inside of us that's really very, very creative.
And once you get that stirred up, it takes over, and all you can do is try to keep your hands moving, your fingers moving as fast as that mind is working.
Maybe my ideas don't fit into the comic book format.
Actually, it's perfect if you could just get the right channels of distribution, which is something that along the lines of what I'd like to talk to you about.
Refs, I could leave you my number or something off the line.
I do have some minor connections in with some people, and we've been discussing and trying to present a line, and I think some of your stuff would work perfectly into it if we could just get something kind of going and we could talk with you about it.
Personally, I'd just like to really see it out there again.
I miss it, and probably a lot of other people.
There's a market out there, albeit small, but if it was put through the right channel, I think we could do something.
But at any rate, if I could take care of that, probably I'll be here.
I was especially intrigued by the Luminati trilogy.
And lately, I've gotten really interested in the New Inquisition.
I've done a good deal of writing about pretty much the same subject, Ciscop and so forth, and recently got my name in the New York Times because of it.
And go ahead.
Oh, okay.
Well, I'm interested in what you've written about Ciscop, and also I wonder if you're familiar with the latest that Ciscop is saying about the media, about buying up the media.
Psycop?
Psycop.
It's a pun non-side cop, like the cops are going to take.
There is present a deregulation by the Federal Communications Commission, Robert, and we are seeing a very rapid consolidation of broadcast facilities across the United States into fewer and fewer hands.
Any comments?
Yeah, well, most of the media belong to the Hearst Tramply and Rupert Murdoch and GE.
And I don't see how PsyCop is going to buy those people out.
I would also like to mention the three Cosmic Trigger books, The Final Secret of the Illuminati, Down to Earth, and My Life After Death.
Those three are all About my investigations of secret societies and occult conspiracies, and the reports of my own death, and art forgers, and hoaxers, and the difficulty of telling when you're dealing with a hoax and when you're dealing with a miracle.
And I'm very, those are my thing, I think those are my three favorite books, the three Cosmic Trigger volumes.
Are there any, you said delineating between a hoax and a miracle, are there any things that you can cite as probably genuinely miracles?
In another sense, there are things that are absolutely extraordinary, like the, and I'm not a Catholic, the events at Fatima connected with the miracles of our so-called Our Lady of Fatima.
There were up to, there were 30,000 witnesses on the scene for the last set of strange events, and there were about 100,000 more who saw some of them from a distance.
And that involved things like UFOs, and the sun seemed to move closer to the earth temporarily, and flower petals fell out of the sky.
Robert, maybe you'd care to comment or you wouldn't on contemporary U.S. politics and our president.
I've sort of ceased talking a lot about politics because I perceive that a lot of what they're, even most of what they're talking about, if not all, is not relevant to our lives anymore.
That not too many people give a damn how Newt Gingrich pays his fine or whatever.
What's your take on it?
Well, I regard governments as sponsored entities.
They are owned by the people who put up the money.
It takes $100 million to run a campaign for president.
So whoever wins is already in debt to multi-millionaires to start with.
And so it's not who's the president that really matters.
This is Chantelle, and I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
Okay.
And I'm an indulger in the universal joke.
Mr. Wilson, I know what I'm talking about there.
My question is about the Prior design.
Mr. Wilson, in your opinion, do you believe that the Sangral that they mention, and that's very important in their mythology, that the Templars were supposedly protecting, was the Sangral as in the Holy Grail, or is the Sangral as in the lineage of Jesus Christ, the Holy Blood?
I think there are so many interesting theories about the priory that trying to choose between them is impossible because none of them have really strong evidence.
But they're trying to keep us interested, and I want to know why they want to keep us interested.
unidentified
Well, yeah, it's it's I've been studying them for a while, and it seems like they've suddenly popped up in sort of the underground mainstream, if you understand what I mean by that.
They've been popping up all over the place, and the whole Etn Arcade ego is popping up everywhere.
And like you said, I'm wondering why, you know, if they're actually perpetrating that or if someone else found it and is perpetrating it or what.
But I find the whole mythos really interesting, and I find your writing really interesting and really helpful.
And it's at least making people start to ask questions, and I appreciate that a lot.
I'm convinced there's like a land of the lost where everything that's been lost, pens and stuff that you'll never find again, it's all in the land of the lost.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
I was wondering if Mr. Wilson had any comments on the new movie coming out of Conspiracy Theory, and if he had any other videos that he might recommend.
You open to the first page of the website, and you find upcoming engagements, and it tells you all the places I'll be speaking for the rest of this year.
unidentified
I'm doing a workshop in Minneapolis, I mean, in Duluth next week, and I'm doing a workshop in San Francisco in August, and so on.
Yeah, I would like to know if Mr. Anton Wilson has any comments about the Oriental masonry and how it crept into Europe in the early part of the 1930s and 1920s and, well, around the turn of the century.
So it came back again in a new form from the Orient.
They changed it.
What are you suggesting?
Well, I don't know anything about that, but I'll look out off hunting for it.
I have a frequent guest, Richard Hoagland, who speaks about the face on Mars that you referred to earlier.
And he is convinced that masonry and ancient rituals connected to Egypt are driving our entire space program.
Yeah, I first encountered that theory from a guy named Downard back in the 70s.
He had a complicated theory where the assassinations of John Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were all connected with the first moon launch and with the 33rd degree of parallel and the 33rd degree of masonry and all sorts of things like that.
Well, this Downard was on that long before Hoagland.
It's a very complicated theory.
unidentified
It's so complicated that I can't take it seriously.
And you've got to wonder whether there are dates put together, cobbled together to make it work, ignoring certain other ones, or whether it's a reality.
It's probably ultimately right down your alley.
Rust of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
Hey, I was calling in regards to finding out about some books that you have.
Do you remember a while back when you had a show and you were talking about crop circles and the magnetic stuff that goes on with the molecular structure of the materials?
For a while, I thought there was something really profound going on.
Then about nine different groups of people confessed how different tricks they had used to make different types of crop circles, and I got more suspicious.
But it doesn't seem that hoaxes can explain all of them.
They're all over the world, and they're coming faster and faster, so I'm back to just being puzzled again.
Yeah, that's me too.
Increasing now in this country, as a matter of fact, rapidly.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
Hi.
unidentified
Yes, I'd like to ask Mr. Wilson about the Tesla conspiracy.
Ease of the Rockies, you're on there with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi, Art.
I'd like to ask your guest.
A conspiracy that I firmly believe is backed up with facts is that Pope John Paul I was murdered by members of the P2 to cover up a huge scandal that is still playing out involving the Vatican Bank.
And I believe that the man was poisoned.
You know, the Vatican would not allow an autopsy on the body.
And it was just so sudden.
And we've got a series of false statements about the man's past health and all kinds of other things.
I believe that they used the Vatican Bank to launder drug money.
unidentified
I believe they had a loop between the Vatican Bank, Banco, and Brociano, and the World Finance Corporation in Miami, which was connected to the CIA's drug and gun business down in Costa Rica.
And I think they were into all sorts of illegal activities.
Several of them have been convicted.
A few of them died under mysterious circumstances while under indictment.
Well, he apparently has gone off to say all right.
Let's try it again.
unidentified
I thought I was far enough away from you.
Is it possible that by design that if to conquer something is to divide it, that this democracy that we take is such a blessing, is actually a means of keeping us divided at each other's throats rather than united and empowered?
Well, secondly...
And also, did I hear you mention Wilhelm Reich?
Yes, I mentioned him a while ago.
I think Reich has never received a fair hearing from the scientific community.
I think that The Murder of Christ by Wilhelm Reich is one of the most profound books I've read.
And as I said, tomorrow night with lock and a good phone number, Daniel Brinkley will be here.
Also arranging an interview with Leonard Nimoy, Star Trek's Mr. Spunk, and a whole lot more.
There's one talented guy.
So all of that is in the relatively immediate future, I think, and more.
Someone writes the following to Mr. Bell.
Was wondering when you're going to have Major Ed Dames on the show again.
He said a little over a year ago that it would take a year before he could, quote, put his signature, end quote, on any reports of negative climactic changes.
Well, it's been over a year, and I'm sure a lot of us are interested in hearing what he has to say about it.
Ken from Southern California.
Yeah, that's true.
I might make a surprise call to Ed Dames.
You never know and get him on and see what he does have to say about that.
Climactic changes seem to be underway right now.
I could almost put my signature on it.
We're about to enter the unknown land of weirdness and open phones.
Or open phones and weirdness.
They go together, especially with a full moon.
All right.
Let's see what's in the news.
The services for Gianni Versace are set for Friday, and he will be buried.
They continue to seek actively Mr. Andrew Kuninan, who they believe is the serial killer that may have done him in.
Officials said Friday, Russia's troubled Mir space station has realigned itself, back in the sun again, lights on.
Most systems reconnected.
Systems crashed Thursday when a cable was accidentally unplugged.
Must have been a very bad moment.
Our Speaker Newt Gingrich survived another challenge to his leadership with what appears to be a purge.
The Republican Party skirmish claimed a rising young conservative, Bill Paxson.
And apparently, the way I get this is Newt Gingrich thought Mr. Paxson was going to was trying to do him in politically, and so instead Mr. Gingrich did him in.
Interesting.
The Florida Supreme Court ruled the case of a man dying of AIDS, in a case of this man dying of AIDS, upheld the state law that bans physician-assisted suicide.
So they're saying no.
That's a very interesting topic.
I very much am opposed to suicide.
I haven't felt that way all my life.
But, you know, for you, I'm not opposed to it.
And by that, I mean I would not begin to impose my moral beliefs or ethical beliefs, personal beliefs on you.
I'm more of a libertarian.
I wouldn't do it.
I've got my own reasons why I wouldn't do it.
But I think the government has no damn business passing laws and telling you what you can and can't do with your life.
That's bull.
There is a tropical storm named Danny hovering ominously now off the coast of Louisiana with about 60 mile-an-hour winds.
Now, the problem here is that it's very warm water.
And the sooner it gets on shore, the better, because if it sits out there over that warm water, it's going to build.
And these are the really dangerous ones when they sit out there in the Gulf and just build and build and build, feeding on the warm water.
And then in 24 hours or less, before you know it, you've got yourself a really serious storm.
Anyway, that's a brief overlook at what's going on out there.
If any of that interests you, you're welcome to comment on it.
Short of that, anything goes.
It's a full moon.
We don't screen calls.
So I have no idea what's coming up.
Whatever you feel like talking about is an air game.
Here we go.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello, Mr. Bell.
I'm Abby calling from Vancouver, British Columbia.
And I was in the other night when you had the vampires calling in, and I figured since it was a full moon, if there are any werewolves out there, I'd like to hear them call in.
I mean, short of some medical products for which I don't have the problem, so I can't be a judge.
And there I use people's testimonials.
Short of that, I try everything before I advertise it.
But what the audience doesn't know is how much I reject.
My network knows about that.
They hate that.
But I mean, I'm the one who's got to sit out here and say, this is a good product.
Buy it.
And I don't want to be lying.
unidentified
I would imagine there are a lot of talk show hosts or just radio stations in general, as long as they get their money for endorsing the product, they're satisfied.
Anyway, I wanted to ask you, I want to change the subject here a little bit.
A while back you were talking about crop circles and stuff like that, and magnetics and stuff like that that were found in the materials of the, like vegetation and stuff like that.
What they determined with regard to crop circles was that there were molecular changes similar to, but not quite consistent with, the molecular change you would get if you took some of those crops and put them in a microwave oven.
But I don't think that you get that kind of change from a couple guys with boards and chains.
unidentified
No, what about this?
What about if they take a magnetic type field, change the frequency on it, and then did a bunch of things with it and made a disc that was the same type of deal, like magnetics or something like that, and stacked them all up and then rotated them.
Well, it would cause some kind of a magnetic type situation to happen and it would run at a different frequency, high at really extremely high frequency, I would assume it would cause something like that.
And what Doug did was he wrote a book called The Gift, and we interviewed him the other night, in fact twice now, last night along with Lynn Molten Howe.
And he spun crop circles, or the image of crop circles, to obtain a three-dimensional depiction of, well, actually, a ship.
And he thinks the more complicated crop circles, the ones popping up now, are basically designs for the system to drive that ship.
And if you will look at the latest crop circle that I put up on the site, I scanned some pictures and put it up on the site, you will see very clearly that what we've got appearing now here in America is very much like what appeared beginning in 89 or 90 in England,
the very simplistic circles that would seem to be what Doug Ruby defines as the beginning of the learning process, or in other words, how you would, for example, teach an animal to begin responding.
A dolphin was the animal he referred to.
You would begin giving it simple hand signals until a line of communication was established.
And then, of course, once you had that, you could refine it and you could enlarge on it until you finally have a full dolphin show all based on hand signals.
In other words, you have established communication.
And Doug Ruby believes that these simplistic clock circles are the beginning of an effort to establish communication.
And it makes a very, very great deal of sense.
And I am very much looking forward to Doug Ruby getting together with Linda Moulton Howe to see what comes of all of that.
And I suspect it will, because it's one of those things that's very, very difficult to put into words.
You're talking about a three-dimensional visualization, and you're trying to put it into words that will sink in on the radio.
That's hard to do.
In fact, very difficult to do, but somehow he managed.
And I'm looking forward to the result of that meeting, which I anticipate to occur soon.
Again, tomorrow night, if we get the number, Daniel Brinkley.
Coming soon, Leonard Nimoy.
Star Trek's Leonard Nimoy.
Actually, he's done so very much more, but I guess to me and to many of you, he will forever be Mr. Spock Mooney.
I have a very serious love-hate relationship with computers.
Right now, I love them, by the way.
Mine are all operating fine.
I had my last struggle, you may recall, I don't know, about a week ago, week and a half ago.
And I am always of the view that I will either make it work or break it beyond all recognition.
And I've done that any number of times.
And so I appreciate the following Associated Press story.
This comes from Isqua, Washington.
Hope I'm pronouncing that.
Isquah, Washington.
Is that correct?
Associated Press.
A 43-year-old man was coaxed out of his home by police after he pulled a gun on his personal computer and shot it several times, apparently in frustration.
Sergeant, Police Sergeant Keith Moon said Thursday, quote, we don't know if it wouldn't boot up or what, end quote.
The computer in a home office on the second floor of the townhouse had four bullet holes in the hard drive and one in the monitor, according to Moon, policeman.
One bullet struck a filing cabinet while another made it through a wall and into a neighboring unit.
Nobody was injured but the computer.
Police had to evacuate the entire complex after 8 o'clock while they contacted the man by telephone.
He eventually agreed to discard the weapon and meet officers outside the building.
They additionally confiscated three guns and a knife, but the computer, without question, is dead as a doornail.
And the man has been taken to Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle for a medal evaluation.
I wanted to say something to you, and then when I'm finished, I wanted to ask you a question about the Internet.
When you were getting upset a while back about talking about vengeance, and every night you'd come on and say, you know, that you wanted to get even and all that.
And then last night, and one time during that time you were saying that you said you would always be that way, which I looked at the radio and I said, I hope not.
But last night when you were asking, was her name Evelyn?
I know it is, but I mean, I'm caring about you feeling that way.
You've changed and grown so much in the last couple of years.
You're real different than you used to be.
And it's nice to see that and to experience that on the radio, especially of a male.
And you know, there's different conditionings we go through in life.
Some are the same, some are female, some are male.
In my feeling, the male conditioning is just what you're saying.
It's a heavy-duty male conditioning to get even.
And as all I'm saying is, you need to let go of it.
If you can find some way within your heart...
Oh, dear.
Okay.
Well, anyway, I'm glad I at least said that to you.
My question is, I've been trying to move from California to New Mexico for two years, and my house doesn't sell, and hardly anybody is looking at houses.
Can you tell me who I would call or steer me some way to I don't have a computer, but how do you put a house for sale onto the Internet?
And if you just find a friend who's got a computer that works, I'm sure you'll be able to list it that way.
And the Internet, of course, offers all kinds of unique opportunities because you can take a picture or pictures of your home and have those on the Internet.
unidentified
But if somebody isn't a famous person and they're just a regular person out here and they have a computer and they're on the Internet, how will people know to go to look on their page for somebody listing a house that's just on their page or whatever?
The Internet has unlimited, absolutely unlimited possibilities commercially and non-commercially, and that would be one area because you could put photographs of what you're selling up there.
And I'm sure there are lots and lots of sites like that.
I was wondering earlier with Robert Anton Wilson about the Internet itself.
It's really intriguing to watch it and see where it's going.
And of course, we're right in the middle of that technology, and so it's kind of exciting to be part of it.
Now, you might take a look at my website.
It's one of the better ones, actually, on the web, and that's no thanks to me.
That's Keith Rowland, who's done it.
It's a magnificent site.
It's gigantic.
It's almost like an internet within an internet.
In fact, we've got what's called a search engine within our website.
So you can go in there and put a word in.
It will take you to the appropriate place, whatever you're searching for.
And my website address is www.artbell.com.
Something I meant to do yesterday, I mentioned this.
Somebody sent me a t-shirt that says www.getalife.com.
And then somebody wrote me and said there's actually such a site as www.getalife.com.
And I meant to take a look at it today to see what it was.
Maybe after I said it or wore that t-shirt, they formed it.
Who knows?
Or maybe it was already there.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi.
My name's Mike.
I'm in the wine country in Northern California.
Hi, Mike.
Yeah, I just wanted to call.
I wanted to say that show you did last night with Dr. Piglini.
I've been waiting every day to get it, and I will let you know I got the ones from June 14th and the ones from the day before yesterday, I think you had them on.
I also wanted to suggest that it would be fun to have an alien line one night.
Okay, well, the other thing I wanted to say about David Oates is I think it would be great if everybody just flooded the Boulder Police Department with requests that they get him on the case because if they did, it would get into the major media about reverse speech, and then maybe they'd have, like on CNN, we did.
Before they would ever do it, though, on a high-profile case like that, or any high-profile case, I mean, look, for example, at lie detectors.
Still not admissible, basically, in court.
And they've been around for how many years now?
Years and years and years and years.
And still not admissible.
unidentified
So whether it was admissible or not, they could still go through the tastes to look for clues.
And then also it is speech.
So if they would get like other scientists to say, like Richard Hoagland said it was scientific, he's a scientist, and maybe run it by Dr. Henry Lee and see if they could get it admitted to let the jury decide if what they said in reverse, you know, what weight did they want to say?
And as for you, I advise you to look into that arthritis assist formula, chondroydin, as one of the ingredients.
And it's a New York Times that reported the breakthrough that allows the regrowth or the assistance of regrowth of cartilage.
So instead of contacting the agencies you talked about, you ought to really look into it if you really are sincere about helping your family, which I sincerely doubt.
We had to produce and distribute the tapes ourselves rather than getting involved in other avenues, and that led to a great delay and a lot of travail on our part, a lot of period of disappointment on the part of many thousands of people, but that's open now.
Module 1 has been mailed.
Many people have that module already, and others will have it within 24 hours, 48 hours.
And you said though it was not something, and I remember that you said it was only 80 or 90%, I can't remember which said, it wasn't a fully done project.
You said you thought the pilot was dead.
unidentified
We put 100% probability, 100% likelihood on the demise of the pilot and the aircraft, and an 80% likelihood on the location.
But I think we might have a look.
Perhaps he jettisoned his bombs in northeastern Arizona.
That may be why we swung on to that.
But the reason we did the project was to find out whether or not lives were in danger.
What kind of prompted me to give you a call, and I called Ed tonight at this late hour, was the fact that somebody wrote in saying a year ago on my program, and it is true, you made some tentative findings with respect to the changing weather, Ed.
And you said it'd probably be about a year before you put your name to them as 100% probability.
You know, the weather changes.
By God, we've been going through some really serious weather changes.
There's no question about it.
Now, I have no way of knowing.
You know, we have a short life as human beings.
Mortals come and go very quickly, and the weather's been around a long time.
So it could be cyclical or not.
I have no way of knowing that.
But what I do know is it is changing.
One day you said the jet stream will come down on the deck, and I didn't see a lot of weathermen across the country saying that exactly that had begun to occur.
The jet stream literally had come down on deck, and we were getting winds, tornado-like winds, without tornadoes, and all kinds of weird things have been going on.
So what can you tell us about the weather?
unidentified
Well, there's some things that are obvious.
El Niño is kicking up, and you can imagine what winter and next spring is going to be like.
Or you might not be able to imagine what it's going to be like.
A lot of cyclonic activity along the Atlantic seaboard, U.S. Atlantic seaboard, major flooding, those kinds of things.
You can expect that.
And actually, we have described that as remote viewers.
But I think the real predictive mark that we used as a milestone to discern the beginning of a global economic collapse, one of those marks has been observed,
the ground truth, design to the ground truth has been observed, and that is that seabirds are starving along the northwest coast of the United States.
There's nothing for them to eat.
Now, about a year ago, this was one of the predictive marks.
This was one of our data points that we had vis-a-vis the cue, the problem set of the next global economic collapse associated with that.
This was one of the milestone marks that we would see associated with that that would lead us to know when this collapse was beginning.
Yes, the flowers in New Zealand are changing color.
Now, what that means is that the ozone hole, and what scientists are about to find out, geophysicists are about to find out, is that the ozone holes are not simply polar.
There is, as I've mentioned before, A sort of metastasis, to use a medical analogy, going on in the upper atmosphere.
And that is sort of like a cancer eating away at many different places in Earth's atmosphere, not just the polar regions.
There's an ozone hole over Russia now that's about 2,500 kilometers.
It's incredible.
There are reports from the Antarctic that single-celled animals are now exhibiting genetic change.
unidentified
Yes, and as I mentioned last year, that any starfish are dying off in the Antarctic regions.
Also because, as I've mentioned, anything that is in the developmental stages exposed to direct sunlight, so that an egg, for instance, a frog's egg, a fish's egg, an invertebrate's egg, will not be able to withstand the rapidly increasing ionizing radiation as a result of a degrading atmosphere and ozone layer.
So we've got a real problem at hand.
And New Zealand's a good case in point.
The children have a play only in covered areas.
They wear sunscreen and sunglasses.
But more importantly, the flowers are changing color rapidly.
Now, if one remote views this, if they use technical remote viewing, turn one's attention to this, then one can discern the reason why.
And that is that flowers, the colors of flowers, are there because they attract their pollinator.
Now, bees and moths, moths in the nighttime, bees in the daytime, are the most common pollinators.
Bees have a polarized eye, and it's very sensitive to sunlight, extremely sensitive.
They use the lights, the position of the sun, to navigate and to find their way to food, to flowers.
When that light changes and affects the very sensitive bee's eye, the bee can no longer navigate to its food source.
And so flowers that are capable of changing very rapidly because they generate rapidly, they have to adapt to a new color that reflects light in a new way so that the bee can find the flower again.
And so the color of the flower must change very rapidly.
Well, okay, so is that then a good thing or a terrible sign?
In other words, you're saying it is adapting.
unidentified
It's a bad sign because it can only adapt so far.
A point will be reached where the bee will be blinded entirely and not be able to find food in any case because the bee's eye, the insect eye, cannot evolve as fast as the flower can change color.
And so the bees will no longer be able to find their food because it will be too bright in the ultraviolet spectrum for them to see.
They'll be blinded also, just as sheep in Tierra del Fuego are blinded now and walk off cliffs because they have cataracts.
So what happens when the bees can no longer be able to pollinate?
So anything, any food crop, tomatoes, apples, all your fruits, most of your fruits and many vegetables will not be pollinated.
And it is, you can imagine how labor-intensive it is to pollinate by hand with a brush.
It's just not practicable.
And that will lead to a lot of starving people.
Watch what happens in Eastern Europe this winter.
There is no more excess food.
There's no food surplus.
We could barely feed North Korea right now.
As you know, North Koreans are allegedly starving.
We might be able to muster enough food together to feed North Korea, but we're not going to be able to do that to Eastern European countries this winter, and you're probably going to see some cannibalism.
That's interesting because just yesterday, the day before now, North Korean soldiers crossed into the DMZ and got into a pitched gun battle with the South Korean soldiers.
And there was even artillery, heavy artillery being used.
unidentified
Tactics of desperation.
If I were an Eastern European commander and I had access to a nuclear weapon, as I mentioned, I think once before, I'd point that at China.
And I'd call the President of the United States, and I would tell the President, I demand the following, foodstuffs, gold, et cetera, in 48 hours, or I'm going to launch this medium-range ballistic missile against China.
And that would put a lot of pressure on the United States from both China and other countries to deliver the goods on that kind of nuclear blackmail.
Those are also tactics of desperation.
And you might see something like that in the future because of weather and food, food shortages, and leading to tactics of desperation.
So we're looking at here in Europe and in America, we're going to be facing some supply problems in the late spring of next year, but Africa will face problems beginning in about seven months from now.
How much chance is there you're wrong, I mean, that you could be wrong, that something else could develop to change it and alter it, and it wouldn't occur quite the way you're saying?
unidentified
Let's see.
I'm willing to bet the banks that I'm right.
My reputation is on the line right now with your listeners, and I'm standing by what I'm saying.
So that's I'm sticking my neck out, but I'm not because of the confidence factor we have.
We check our work a lot when we turn something into a project at SciTech.
We check it out.
We rework it.
We double-check it.
We triple check it.
And we stand by our data because it's a time-tested method.
Now, with the remote viewing tapes on the way to the public or already there, there are going to be people who, hearing what you're saying about this, are obviously going to target the same thing.
unidentified
They can't do that with Module 1.
Module 1 is an introductory tape.
It just teaches you the beginning flying lesson, so to speak.
Module 2 is a four-tape set, and that's for people who seriously want to learn this, because this is not a pill that you take to sit back, and it happens to you.
The following just facts to me from United Press International.
You're not going to believe this in view of the discussion we're having at the moment with Major Ed Dames, Sitex Major Ed Dames.
That's a private company, by the way.
He's retired from the military now.
UPI, a large-scale campaign to combat a swarm of locusts is underway in northern Kazakhstan in an effort to protect grain and other agricultural crops in the region.
A recent spell of hot, dry weather has created ideal conditions for the insects, which move in swarms and devour, get this, nearly all agricultural crops in their path.
The TAS News Agency reports that around 3.75 million acres of land planted with wheat, barley, and other grain are now being ravaged by the locusts.
All available agricultural machinery in the area has been mobilized to combat the insects.
TASS says a total of 865 tractors, 24 planes, seven generators have been spraying pesticides from early morning until late night over the past few days.
In addition, 17 Delta Wing aircraft have been provided by the government, each of which can spray over 1,000 hectares of land per day.
There are reports of locust swarms in other areas of Kazakhstan, and if the reports are true, experts are predicting this year's grain harvest will be severely affected.
Normally, Kazakhstan expects to harvest around 14 million tons of grain per year.
Is this the kind of thing you're talking about, Ed?
unidentified
It is.
And there's another case that your listeners should know about, and that's Madagascar.
Presently, on the island of Madagascar, there are two locust swarms, huge locust swarms, converging on each other, one moving from the north to the south, and the other in the south moving north.
But because Madagascar is a lesser developed country and not economically important to those of us in the West, there is little news about that kind of those locust swarms.
I have friends in Australia and New Zealand, and when I talk to them about the ozone problem there, they're very matter-of-fact about it.
I mean, it's just an absolute rule.
Schoolchildren do not go out without protective headwear and shielding from the sun.
It's just an automatic thing.
They don't do it, and they're used to it.
And to them, at this point, it's ho-hum.
They say, oh, yeah, you know, that's the way it is down here.
You just don't do it.
And that's simply not widely known here.
unidentified
And eventually, we're going to have to spend much more time inside, much more time.
And as remote viewers, as technical remote viewers, we perceive a decade and a half out where not many people are on the streets because of the severity of the ozone problem and the massive loss of despeciation on the planet and massive loss of life in some countries.
In fact, in a couple of years, you're going to be wanting to migrate vertically down where it's cooler.
And as long as you have fresh water and you have actually, as I've mentioned before, one of the nice things about having TRV as a skill and a tool is to identify food sources when all the food is dying through food crops.
And chlorella, as I've mentioned, as bad tasting as it may be, is really the fundamental food source of the future.
And in fact, it flourishes and thrives in high sunlight and we don't.
So our potential food source will thrive in conditions where we have to be, come out only at night or live underground.
You're going to need fresh water bills.
And you're going to need some type of a pilot plant.
Communities will probably need to invest in the technology that allows them to produce chlorella for themselves because I don't think that logistics will be that dependable in the future.
If the weather is changing, Ed, then what about this question?
If the present farm areas or farm belts here and in other countries are no longer tenable, will there then be other areas that will become tenable?
unidentified
I'm not certain.
I'm moving to a place personally where I know at least food will grow quite rapidly near the equator.
In the northern and southern latitudes, where the wind speeds are very high and there is more exposure to direct sunlight, that's where the problems will lie.
There are areas of the world where in tropical regions that if they remain tropical, food grows rather rapidly.
In volcanic regions, for instance, volcanic soils are extremely rich.
I had Lyndon Molten How on one day, and I'm not going to be able to remember this properly, Ed, but she documented a mountaintop, I think back in New England somewhere, where they had this incredible 200 and some odd mile per hour wind.
The entire building, they were afraid, was actually going to be blown away.
Suddenly, the wind stopped totally dead and reversed course.
And they have never, ever seen anything like it ever.
And we're just getting all of these unusual weather reports.
And it's the one thing that you've said in the past that just rings so true that it's underway right now.
Where are we in the cycle of this occurring?
unidentified
I will tell you where we are in the cycle for those of you who are familiar with some basic mathematics.
If you're familiar with a logarithmic curve, a natural E curve, it doesn't look like a regular curve, a mathematical straight line or a bell curve.
It stays flat in time and then does a little dog leg and goes almost vertically up, almost vertically up at about a 90 degree angle.
We're just about at that dog leg right now.
And what that means is we're in the past, the past being the last couple of decades or so, the geophysical parameters of the Earth have changed ever so slowly.
The changes have started.
And what I mean by the changes, two specific changes, the disappearance of the ozone layer and the degradation of Earth's magnetic field.
Both those things are happening concurrently.
In fact, there's evidence that leads my company to think that loss of the ozone problem may be aggravated by some other geophysical parameters.
I've got one short paragraph from Keith in Magnetic Volcano.
He says, Hi, our Magnetic North is now developing a rhythmic two-degree east wobble, and I've been noting this since mid-springtime.
That's it.
And he's reported on this again and again and again to me.
But a two-degree east wobble?
unidentified
Well, this leads us to a discussion, perhaps, Of what in the past psychek has called a discontinuity and this thing that we could not discern that's so difficult for us to understand.
Actually, something that you couldn't see past, as I recall, that you said might be some sort of spiritual event, but you couldn't quite discern either.
unidentified
That's correct.
And we so I stand corrected on that.
It is not at all supernatural.
It is geophysical in nature.
Oh.
Yes.
And so we've done a lot of work along those lines.
And I don't think I should get into the physics now of that, but it is not a supernatural event.
It is strictly geophysical.
And it happens all at once.
It sort of is like the effects on our bodies are almost like rebooting a computer.
But because mind is outside of space and time, the memory of the event is indelibly etched upon all the participants in that event, and they will go to their graves believing that they really touched bodies and debris and those kinds of things.
And in fact, they really did.
But there is no debris, nor could there ever be, because the event didn't happen.
It was changed.
So for that part of time, there are two pathways.
One in which the event happened and one in which it did not.
One other presently ongoing thing, as you well know, there has been a fashion designer murdered in Miami, Gianni Versace.
And he is thought to have been murdered by a serial killer.
Now, you said you were kind of moving away from this kind of work, and this is very recent, so I don't know if you've done anything on this or not, but I've got to ask.
unidentified
We have not looked at that, but we did send a report to the DAA's office in Colorado on the John Benet-Ramsey murder case.
We had so many requests to look at that.
We decided to, you know, how we support the validity and the power of TRV as a tool by doing these flagship types of projects for the public, for as a public service.
Ed Dames made a specific 100% certain, totally Looney Tunes prediction of a plant pathogen deliberately seeded by the maker and arriving in Africa in the spring of 98.
Why didn't you ask him about that?
Well, I didn't have to.
He talked about the starvation, and he said it would begin in Africa, and obviously, that's what he was referring to.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to divine that, and his prediction remains constant near as I can tell, beginning in Africa in exactly that time frame.
Isn't that what he said?
It's the way I remember it.
I'll tell you what, we will make available, if you want it, the two-hour program we did with Robert Anton Wilson on tape, or the hour we just did with Ed Dames on tape.
Now, whether it's that or the Evelyn Paglini program yesterday, or any other program we do with a guest, you can get copies.
Let me give you the number.
It's 1-800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278.
They do maintain a library of guest appearances that we've had here.
And they do them upright.
They're on high-quality tapes with digital mastery.
They eliminate the news, commercials, and what you get is content.
So again, that number is 1-800-917-4278.
They've got very good high-tech about it now.
We were talking about somebody called about werewolves earlier, said, Why don't you ever get any werewolves?
Gary writes to me the following art, minor problem with werewolves.
It is currently a full moon.
Question mark.
The werewolves have all changed and they're out peeing on trees, marking their territory.
I should have thought of that, Gary.
I think it's not quite a full moon.
I've always done that.
I go outside.
To me, when I go outside and the moon looks full, it's a full moon.
Technically, it may not be.
I'm not exactly sure.
Maybe it's tomorrow night or whatever, or the next night.
So then it's really not such a bad deal that you're out of there?
unidentified
Yeah, but I'm scared because I'm essentially living under a new identity here, and I don't know what's going on because nothing which happened in my past from the future is actually happening now.
You know, there's as many opinions out there as there are dairy errors.
unidentified
Yeah, well, that's true, too.
I don't know if it's going to be as bad a world as Ed says, but I do think you're right that we have an ozone problem, and we have to be doing something about it, and we don't seem to do it fast enough.
I mean, some things really are quite clear, and it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to see that some of what he's talking about, if something doesn't change, could come to pass.
unidentified
Exactly.
I do agree with you.
I wish you would ask him further about a little more on Roswell.
And there was another question I wanted.
I'm going to have to fax you some more questions to ask him.
If you're going to have him on again, because it would be interesting to hear some of the other, you know, more details about Mars, more details about some of these current mysteries that are going on.
I would like you to ask him one thing.
My brother was killed on the Liberty, and I called you about that once.
And we always wanted to know why Israel did it, and Israel always refused to say there was anything but a tragic accident, which we know was deliberate.
I always want to know, the crew wants to know, too, why did Israel actually attack it?
It does to me I years and years ago I fortunately I the way I ran into that was I taped I think it was MTV many years ago.
So there was a video done with that song, which, by the way, was very good.
And I happened to catch it.
I don't know how.
I just happened to catch it.
And it haunted me.
And for years and years and years, I wanted to find the song in some other venue other than on a videotape, you know, from MTV or whatever it was.
And I finally ran across it on CD.
And that song has always haunted me, and I suspect always will.
unidentified
was
to the Rockies you're on the air good morning good morning Mr. Bell this is Robert in San Joaquin Valley hey there good morning sir good morning I love that song yeah me too take a look at the name of who wrote the song it's quite a story and how we got together with him to make that song is that right yeah if Willie's listening I got a suggestion to make Art what I think that I watched a program on PBS about building the dam in Colorado and the story behind it along with the other stories I think
I mean, ultimately, that's going to be a great place to go shopping.
unidentified
The fellow that called, the time traveler from 2012?
Yes.
He sounds pretty credible or he's just a damn good actor.
If he's listening, I'd like to suggest that just so he understands I know what I'm talking about, back in the 70s, it's no longer top secret, but there was an analytical program which, through computers, it was called PROS with the United States Army and TRW.
Well, the funding wasn't there.
The Army discontinued it, but the program would have basically represented mathematically the problem solving, which would normally take about eight teams of mathematicians many, many weeks, like eight to 12 weeks to solve one problem.
Right.
This program could solve in a matter of seconds.
progressed and if this man if he really has accomplished what he says what he needs to do between now and the year 2012 he's not going to get his answers in utah in las colinas out of dallas texas ibm has their uh offices there which in the building which is high security on each Floor.
If everything he said is true, you know, if I was him, I think I'd do what he's going to do, and that's just lay back and enjoy the years and the life that he's got left.
If what he says about the future is correct, I think I'd just hunker down.
Well, what evidence do you have that the speed of light is variable?
unidentified
Okay.
If you were to look through like a Hubble here on Earth at an object a great distance away, whether it was the moon or another object, and you could see, for example, light traveling at its speed from the moon would take a little over a second.
But if you could see the surface of the moon, your vision, by being increased in power, could see things as they actually happen, a distance away, like Hubble does.
In other words, your vision, by having more power, can see something faster than light would travel to your eye here.
dictated by the constant which is the speed of light.
There's no point in going further down that road.
It's a constant.
You can't substitute a V there without coming up with more evidence or chain of logic to support it, and you have not done so.
The power of the tool that visualizes makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
You will simply see a better image of something occurring at a very fixed time from the moment it occurred, depending on the distance as dictated by the constant speed of light.
I just called to tell you, you mentioned earlier about witches calling in, and someone wrote to you, I believe, saying that you were going to burn in hell.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I just called to reassure you that that's not going to happen to you.
And the reason that they hit Liberty was because she was transmitting confidential information that the Israelis did not want to put out what they did.