Art Bell

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July 17, 1997 - Art Bell

03:17:53

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Robert Anton Wilson - Encyclopedia of Conspiracies - Ed Dames - Remote Viewing Training

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be, under a great, big full moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That always has great meaning for talk radio.
unidentified		I bid you a very good day.
unidentified		How about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That settles just about everything.
		Whether it's evening or morning from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Islands in the west to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands eastward, south into South America, north to the Pole worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Marbell.
		Great to be here.
		Coming up this evening for a while is somebody that so many of you have requested that I have on.
		His name is Robert Anton Wilson.
		Robert Anton Wilson is an author, has written 31 books, including his soon-to-be-released Encyclopedia of Conspiracies.
		He's written books on the Illuminati, the New Inquisition.
		He's written books on scientific theories rejected by the establishment.
		He has examined that which runs around as, I don't know, something between myth and reality and rumor.
		It should be an interesting evening, to say the least.
		And there are lots and lots of endless topics that we could discuss in this arena.
		And so that, my friend, is what's coming up in a moment.
		Otherwise, I want to remind you that we have some very, very interesting crop circle photographs on the web for you to see.
		And if you have not yet seen them, I would suggest you go on up there.
		And once again, anybody out there who has got, and by the way, if we don't yet have it, there is a crop circle in Oregon shown on CNN earlier in the day that is, I think, of particular significance and a notch up from the one in Oregon that we have exclusive photographs of.
		So I would love to get any photographs that anybody has, original photographs, aerial photographs, and we're beginning to collect them ourselves.
		Now, does it make sense to you, it certainly will, if one of these conspiracies that we are probably about to discuss, and oh, there's some wild ones going around right now on the internet, I'll tell you, should come true.
		Well, all right, now comes Robert Anton Wilson.
		Robert, welcome to the show.
		Nice to be on your show, Art.
		Glad to have you.
		Over the months and even the last couple of years, Robert, everybody kept emailing me and sending me messages and faxes saying you've got to have Robert Anton Wilson on.
		And so finally, somebody gave me a phone number and I got in contact with you and here you are.
		Tell us a little bit about yourself.
		31 books, that's a bunch.
		Who are you and what's your background?
		Well, back in the 60s, I was associate editor of Playboy for about five and a half years.
		Oh, really?
unidentified		Then I started writing full-time.
		My first major work was Illuminatus, written in collaboration with Robert Shea.
		Illuminatus was a three-volume comic, melodramatic science fiction trilogy with a lot of facts in it, so that most readers weren't sure how much was real and how much was fiction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And people are still arguing about it, and I enjoy the arguments very much because I'm not sure myself how much is true and how much is fiction.
		That's too bad, because that was going to be my next question.
		So you can't settle that at all, then?
unidentified		Well, I have some opinions about it, but I'm not sure about some of the details.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you wrote the book, so you grabbed some of it from mythology and rumor and conspiracy theory and all the rest of it, and just sort of wove it into some of what you knew to be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that about it?
unidentified		Well, I was working for Playboy, as I said, and the Playboy Foundation deals with civil liberties cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And we were getting all sorts of letters from people who claimed the government was conspiring against them.
unidentified		And those that seemed reasonable were forwarded to the Foundation, and sometimes they got some aid and legal counsel and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the ones that sounded really crazy, I collected as interesting items of American folklore.
unidentified		And gradually it dawned on Bob Shea and me that if you put all the crazy theories together, you'd have a really fantastic novel.
unidentified		And so we started, that's how we got to write that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's very hard to say which theories are really crazy because some of the craziest ones turn out to be the most plausible.
		Yeah, no, that's what I found, too.
		People tell me things on the air, and I turn my nose up at it, and two days later, it turns out to be true.
		I have egg in my face.
		Yeah, what the hell is the Illuminati?
unidentified		Well, it's all sorts of things.
		In 1776, Adam Weishaupt, a former Jesuit, founded a secret society called the Illuminati within various Freemasonic lodges in Europe.
		Some people think that was the beginning of it, but some who have studied the subject at great length think that was only the revival.
		They have traced the Illuminati all the way back through history to ancient Egypt and back to Atlantis.
		But whether Weishaupt started it or revived it, he had a secret society within a secret society because Freemasonry is already a secret society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when you've got a secret society within a secret society, you've got a pretty good mystery there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there have been Many, many theories about what the Illuminati was up to.
unidentified		Thomas Jefferson, called Vice Hope, an enthusiastic philanthropist.
		A lot of people have regarded him as the founder of communism, even before Karl Marx.
		Some think he was an atheist, some think he was a magician or a mystic, some think he was a fascist, some think he was a democrat.
		He was trying to found a democratic society in Europe, just like the one we founded in this country at around the same time.
		Whatever he was up to, he managed to create enough confusion that everybody can make up their own theory about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Illuminati was banned by the Bavarian government in 1786, and then, according to most respectable historians, it ceased to exist.
unidentified		According to a lot of others, who are not so respectable but more interesting, it has continued underground under a variety of different names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this still does not tell me, though, what they're all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, are they some sort of string-pullers behind governments, or what is the theory?
unidentified		Well, there's not one theory.
		There's a variety of theories about them.
		One theory is that they are black magicians, Satanists, monsters.
		They're serving the devil.
		Another theory is that they are conspirators who want to take over the world, and they're working in cahoots with the international bankers, and they produced all the wars and revolutions and ups and downs of the last 200 years as part of a big plan to form one world government with themselves at the head of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another theory is they were mystics working to liberate the human mind from superstition and ignorance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do they do that when they're part of that themselves?
unidentified		Well, that's the thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jefferson said if they were in America, they wouldn't have had to be a secret society.
unidentified		But in Europe, the only way they could preach democracy was in a very secretive and underground way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jefferson thought they were Democrats.
		You see, there's a wide variety of opinions about it.
		All right, you and I share a recent event.
		Where these things spread most readily is this wonderful place known as the Internet.
		And I love it.
		We have a big presence on the Internet.
		As a matter of fact, big website.
		But I was sick, Robert, for about three days.
		This was months ago.
		And somebody out there decided to write my obituary and put it on the Internet.
		And by the second day, I mean, I just had the flu.
		That's why I had the flu.
		I was taking a few days off.
		I was pretty sick.
		And I began to get calls from affiliate radio stations all over the country, as far away as the Virgin Islands, saying, oh, my God, art's dead.
		And they wrote a very reasonable sounding obit for me.
		You know, who survives me, what I had done, my background, that sort of thing.
		And I was dead.
		Man, I was dead.
unidentified		I'm telling you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once I spent half the time groggily on the phone because I was sick trying to assure my affiliates that I am not dead.
		And I think that happened to you, didn't it?
		Yes, a couple of years ago, I think it was 92, somebody put a fake story out on Internet.
unidentified		It was supposed to be from the Los Angeles Times.
		And it said I was found dead of a heart attack.
		And it got my age wrong and the number of children wrong.
		But it did get the number of books right.
		And as soon as I started denying it, the Internet being a lively place, then more eldritch theories came forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was claimed that the CIA had killed me and I was replaced by an android that imitated me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So people who said they saw me giving lectures in various places had been deceived.
unidentified		It wasn't the real me.
unidentified		It was a very clever imitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what else are they to say when you make an appearance?
unidentified		Well, you know, they may be right.
		I've read, you know, Phil Dick was a great science fiction writer and a friend of mine.
		He pointed out a perfect android to replace somebody would think they were that somebody because they'd have all the memories and all the same impulses and intellectual activities as the person they were replacing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The really sad thing is we're getting enough technology to where that actually soon, if not now, may be possible.
unidentified		Well, there was a chap back in the 80s.
		I don't know if he's still doing, still putting it out.
		He used to have a conspiracy newsletter, a fellow named Peter Beter of all things.
		And he claimed the Soviet Union, who was still the number one enemy in those days, they were killing American politicians one by one and replacing them with androids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all I can say about that is if my name was Peter Beter, I'd probably be a little weird by the time I got out of high school.
		Well, as I look at the political scene today, I'm not sure I might not grasp onto that one.
		Glam onto that one myself.
unidentified		Well, like I said, I can't prove I'm not an android either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your background is kind of interesting.
		You worked for Playboy.
		Did you know Larry Flint?
unidentified		I only met Larry Flint once.
		And I can't say anything about him.
		It was a very short meeting.
		Didn't see much of you, Hufner, either when I was working for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the movie on Larry Flint here recently, and I thought it was quite good, really.
unidentified		I thought it was an excellent movie, and I'm glad it got at least one Academy Award.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It got a couple of nominations.
		I think he's the great hero of free speech.
		He managed to offend everybody, including I think that's a marvelous achievement to offend so many people and to get upheld by the Supreme Court.
		Well, Bob Guccione's publication presently would like to interview me.
		And Hustler is Bob Guccione.
		So I thought about it, and I said, I'll tell you what.
		You tell Bob Guccione, he comes on my program and does an interview for me, and I'll let you interview me.
		So we're going to trade.
		We'll see if we're going to trade.
		I'd love to have Bob on talk about it.
		It is, How do you come down on the whole First Amendment thing as it relates to, say, something like Hustler, a notch deeper than Playboy or two?
unidentified		Well, I'm very much in favor of the First Amendment.
		I think it's one of the best parts of the Constitution, and I hate to see anybody monkeying around with it.
		I agree with the late Justice Black, who said that the founding fathers, as judged by the Constitution and by their diaries, letters, and other public documents, were all very careful and eloquent masters of the English language.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when they wrote we should have no laws abridging freedom of speech or of the press, they meant no laws.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they had meant some laws, they would have written some laws, but they wrote no laws.
unidentified		And I agreed with you, Go Blank.
		He was a simple farm boy, he said.
		That was his problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what my problem is, but like Justice Black, to me, no laws mean no laws.
		Well, that's exactly the position Larry Flint took.
		It's just that he irritated so many people along the way.
unidentified		Well, we owe most of our civil liberties to people who are very irritating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a fact, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you count yourself in that group?
unidentified		Well, I seem to have irritated quite a few people in the course of my career.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you done that generally has most irritated people, do you think?
unidentified		Well, in the New Inquisition, I pointed out that some of the behavior of some of the scientific community is not unlike the behavior of the Catholic Church in the Renaissance and the way they have tried to get rid of theories they don't like.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
unidentified		I've irritated a lot of people in the scientific community.
unidentified		I've irritated a lot of feminists, pointing out that most of the things they write about men, if you just take out the word man and put in the word Jew, it sounds exactly like Adolf Hitler and Mein Kemp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've irritated a lot of fundamentalist religionists by pointing out that the blind faith could be wrong.
unidentified		You've got 150 blind faiths to choose from.
		It's better to try to figure things out rationally, I think.
		You see, I am a very irritating person for a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see how that would irritate a lot of people.
		I've never been able to embrace blind faith myself, and it does.
		It brings forth people who get very angry with you.
		I like to be able to put my hand on something and or prove it scientifically before I embrace it.
		And religion certainly falls into that category.
		But the moment say something like that, why you offend probably about, I don't know, 30, 40% of the population.
		I don't know anymore.
unidentified		If you ever offend anybody, what's the point of writing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I take that same view with regard to broadcasting.
		And it constantly gets me in trouble, but I ignore it and plow forward, and I guess you do too.
		You've looked in all kinds of things like extra-century perception things that now there's something, ESP, or UFOs, or many of the things I talk about on this program that the mainstream scientific community, in concert with mainstream media, snickers at, at the least, and takes off at actively more often than not.
		What have you found, as you have investigated?
		Well, what I have found is that among controversial scientific theories, there's a lot more evidence for them than you generally find out from the establishment, the scientific establishment or the media establishment.
unidentified		As, for instance, ESP, there has been research on that for over 100 years at, I guess, around 1,000 universities by now, all over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's mountains and mountains of evidence.
unidentified		I was giving a lecture at the Dublin Science Fiction Society in Ireland, and somebody asked in the question period, do you believe in UFOs?
unidentified		And I said, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They burst out with a long explanation of how they were all heat inversions.
		I said, well, we both believe in UFOs.
		You think you know what they are, and I admit I don't know.
		I get much the same answer.
		Of course, there are UFOs, things we can't identify.
unidentified		Well, there are UFOs, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's unidentified, unfoes, unidentified non-flying objects.
		Half the things that go by my house go by so fast I don't know what they are.
		Yeah, that's right.
		All right, well, what about, let's take the big one.
		Mainstream science says that everything began, Robert, when there was this little dot of matter which exploded in this Big Bang theory that created everything.
		And all is flying away from that center explosion.
		Do you embrace that or argue with it?
unidentified		Well, it's not a matter of embracing it or arguing with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are several variations on that.
unidentified		George Gambo had a theory that it expands to a certain point and then contracts down, and then we've got another big bang and it expands again.
		It's sort of like an accordion going on and on forever.
		Yeah.
		And that's a nice variation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's the super string theory in which you had a ten-dimensional universe which split into a six-dimensional universe which has been shrinking ever since and the four-dimensional one we know which has been expanding ever since.
		And I think these are all interesting speculations, but they're pretty far from the level of anything we can prove.
		This is more the philosophy of science than actual science itself.
		I think when you get down to engineering, you're dealing with something real or the thing falls apart and blows up on you.
unidentified		When you're dealing with cosmology, there's no real way of checking the theories in a strict way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just which ones are fashionable at a given time.
		So in other words, until we actually see things beginning to come closer to us, and rather than redshift, we get a different color one night, then we'll know.
		Otherwise, It's all just theory.
		Is that about right?
unidentified		Well, David Bohm, one of the great physicists, said maybe the laws of the universe are changing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we haven't been studying them long enough to notice it, but they may be different 300 years from now than they've been for the last 300 years.
		Very good.
		Hold tight.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		When it's all right, it's something moving.
		We gotta get it right back until we've got it for.
		We got it in right, that's where we started from.
		We got it in right.
		Call Art Bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sweetly is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Robert Anton Wilson, a true Discordian.
		And if I got my Flints and Guccionis mixed up, of course, it was Flint for Hustler and Guccione for Penthouse.
		And Mr. Guccione's magazine would like to interview me, and I said, fine.
		Let me interview him.
		We'll trade interviews.
		Be interesting.
		People out on the edge, they're always interesting.
		Robert Anton Wilson is definitely one of those.
		We'll get back to him in a moment.
		Back now to Robert Anton Wilson.
		Robert?
		Hi there.
		Hi.
		What is Discordia, Robert?
		Well, Discordia is the Roman name for the Greek goddess Ceres, who's the goddess of chaos, discord, confusion, bureaucracy, and international relations.
		In other words, president of American domestic and foreign policy.
		Yes, I am a Discordian pope.
		There are about 10 million Discordian popes now.
		We set out in the late 60s to make every man, woman, and child on the planet a pope.
		And we're still working on it.
		And I'd like to take one giant step forward since you've got a very huge audience.
		I now appoint everybody listening in.
		They're all Discordian popes now.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spectacles, testicles, brandy, cigars.
unidentified		They're all popes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		There's also a fellow out there somewhere who's just dubbed himself Master of the Universe, and I believe that he's selling plots on Mars and cleaning up quite well.
		Well, you know, the face on Mars is actually a Discordian saint.
unidentified		It's Moses Horowitz.
unidentified		He's one of the great Discordian saints.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His birthday was a centennial.
unidentified		It was just last month, June 19th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		June 19th.
		He was better known as Mo Howard.
		That was his stage name.
		I know Moe.
		Yeah, well, he's a Discordian saint, and we believe the face on Mars is Mo Howard.
		He has been a major influence on two planets now.
		It's as good a guess as anybody else's.
		Listen, there is something happening right now coming back to the internet.
		Let me read you a Reuters story.
		This one is apparently valid.
		It says, police were put on heightened state of security Wednesday after city officials in Atlanta received an FBI warning of threats to the municipal water systems in Atlanta and other U.S. cities, according to the mayor there.
		Now they're saying they have no reason to believe there might be any validity, but this is now something that's been running around on the internet.
		Threats of plague, threats of plague being carried in body cavities from Iran or Iraq into U.S. cities and threats of water supplies.
		My gosh, I've got Atlanta, Dallas, Tampa, Kansas City, all kinds of places mentioned here in rumors.
		And now this mainstream Reuters story, somehow all of this discordant information has amassed itself into the mainstream media.
		And I've got a Reuters news story here.
		Could there be anything to all of this?
		What do you know?
		Well, I know that some people from that part of the world were convicted of blowing up or trying to blowing up parts of the World Trade Center.
		So, I mean, there are Islamic movements.
		I don't want to put down Islam as a whole, but there are movements within Islam that are capable of this type of thing.
		I don't think they're capable of hitting a whole bunch of cities all at once.
		There's not that many of them, and they're not that well organized.
		Besides, the IRA has recently adopted the technique of making hoax phone calls and mounting bombs when they don't have bombs.
		Once you set off a few bombs, the police can't afford to ignore any threat you make.
		And once you've blown up the World Trade Center, they can't afford to ignore any other threat you make.
		So they can pull endless hoaxes which will tie up police departments, create confusion, and generally bollocks up our whole system here without actually having any real germs at all.
		Although they are capable of getting together enough, I suppose, to hit one city or two.
unidentified		I'll wait and see, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to get all hysterical about it just because there's a rumor to that effect.
		And that's really all they would need to do, though, as you point out, is to hit one and threaten many.
		Yeah, that would be doing pretty well for the IRA technique lately.
		Is the world, in your opinion, as you look at it generally, headed into a period of anarchy, chaos more?
		Or are things beginning to straighten out a little bit?
		In other words, which direction do you see it going in presently?
		Well, I see it heading towards increasing chaos in the sense of unpredictability.
unidentified		If I could just take a minute to explain that in chaos theory and mathematics, chaos means the unpredictable.
unidentified		And chaos increases as information flow increases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Information flow has been increasing throughout history.
		And now with Internet, it's increasing faster than ever before.
		So everything is becoming more and more unpredictable.
unidentified		Therefore, everything seems to be out of control.
		Or if you can't accept that everything is out of control, you've got to assume there's some conspiracy that's manipulating everything.
		I feel it's just a function of the speed of information traveling and new technologies arising which discombobulate the whole economic system of every economic system on the planet.
		And we're going through rapid changes which nobody really understands.
		And I do think it will level out eventually at a higher level of efficiency and prosperity than the human race has ever achieved before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's based on a lot of analysis by Buckminster Fuller and his World Game people, which is kind of complicated to go into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm not a pessimist.
unidentified		I do think it is going to eventually work its way out into a higher degree of order after we've been through a lot more chaos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you think that the Internet and the Information Superhighway with all of its on-ramps is contributing to this, you nevertheless are optimistic you wouldn't call for stopping some of the traffic or controlling some of the traffic or doing to the Internet what they tried to do to Ms. Flynn?
unidentified		No, I think information flow, in spite of the unpredictability it creates, also creates the possibility of greater and greater success in terms of doing more with less, which is a phrase President Clinton has taken to using lately.
unidentified		He's lifted that from Buckminster Fuller, the great mathematician and architect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then who did NASA lift it from?
unidentified		Buckminster Fuller.
unidentified		Fuller pointed out the tendency of modern technology is to do more and more with less and less, which means greater and greater success for the whole human race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so, you know, that's the result of the flow of information.
		So anything that stifles the flow of information is keeping us poorer than we should be, longer than that should go on.
		Where is some of this technology taking us?
		We're beginning to map the human genome.
		We're on the edge of, frankly, if you want my view, I think we probably have already cloned human beings privately in labs somewhere or another.
		I would almost bet on that.
		Where's all that going?
		Well, I think it's heading towards nanotechnology, which is molecular-sized computers, which is going to change the whole picture of health.
unidentified		And sometime in the near future, 10, 15, 20 years, maybe even sooner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And no matter what's wrong with you, they just give you a needle and shoot you with these little mini computers that run all through your body, examining every cell and fixing anything that's wrong with it.
unidentified		That's the direction that I think we're moving in, and that's only part of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The health aspect also with nanotechnology, everything is going to become literally dirty shape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we could certainly begin replicating things in essence.
unidentified		Yeah, you could build the whole rainforest back up in about 48 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everything that's been destroyed can be put back in about 48 hours with nanotechnology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Optimistic.
unidentified		It could be done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or they might even get us to the position with regard to health where we become immortal.
unidentified		Well, I know a lot of people think that's a distinct possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The problem for me with that is that if they achieve it in 30 years, I'll be 82 and I'm not sure I want to be frozen there.
		Well, if you want to follow this line of thought, if we get to the point where we can stop aging, then we're very obviously the next step, when we understand that much, the next step will be to start reversing it.
		Well, that might be all right.
		So at 83, you'll be younger than you are at 53.
		That might be all right.
unidentified		It wouldn't be bad at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an unusual world ahead.
		We are cursed or blessed to live in interesting times.
		There's no question about that.
unidentified		It becomes more unpredictable all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We just went through a big whoop-de-doo down in Roswell at the 50th anniversary of Roswell.
		And frankly, what occurred at Roswell was kind of a joke, or at least the way it was covered in the media was a joke.
		They showed endless pictures of the museum with people with strange hats and all the rest of it.
		But just prior to Roswell, the most interesting thing occurred when this Colonel Haynes, I call him poor Colonel Haynes, was sent out to talk of this Roswell case closed book, which talked about dummies tossed out of something or another seven years after the supposed Roswell event.
		And no matter what you think of Roswell, I'd be interested in your take on the Air Force's presentation prior to the 50th anniversary.
		Why do you think they felt compelled to come out and do that?
		Well, I can't begin to hazard having a look at how those people's minds work.
unidentified		It's like intelligence agencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What they say does not always represent what they think, and what they think, God only knows.
unidentified		I certainly don't.
		It's like many years ago, oh, 15 years ago, there was a case in New York involving NORAD, which is allegedly collecting money for widows and orphans in Northern Ireland, was actually running guns for the IRA.
		And it turned out they were getting some of their guns from the CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I was interviewing Sean McBride, a leading Irish politician, famous man, won the Nobel Peace Prize.
unidentified		I said, why would the CIA be running guns for Marxist revolutionaries?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he said, when you're dealing with intelligence agencies, anything is possible.
		And when you're dealing with the FOS, anything is possible.
		I mean, the most far-out theory is they were deliberately being absurd, so more people would believe in UFOs.
unidentified		Why would they want to do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Who can pierce the dark mind of government?
		Well, that may seem far-out, but that was, in fact, if you believe the surveys, that was a net effect.
unidentified		Yeah, so are we supposed to believe they're so dumb they didn't expect that effect?
unidentified		Maybe they want us to believe in UFOs and spaceships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, UFOs are just unidentified.
		Spaceships are a theory about them.
		On the other hand, if you think about it a little bit, if that was a demonstration of their efficiency or their capability, then you have to believe that there's no chance in the world they could have kept that secret for 50 years.
		Well, as Quint Eastwood said in an interview, the only reason that we haven't been overrun by all of our enemies is their armies must be just as inefficient as ours.
		The Berlin Wall came down.
		Communism ostensibly died in Russia, and its satellites are set free, and the world is a new place, or is it?
		I was in Moscow just a couple of years ago, and about a year ago, actually.
		And as I went around Moscow, I felt watched.
		I didn't feel free.
		As a matter of fact, it's not a very safe place to be, and it's not a very free place to be.
		So has communism really died, or is it just taking a big, long breath?
		What's going on worldwide, us versus them?
		Well, I think it's comatose, moribund, and just about that.
		I think the funniest thing I've read recently was one of the communist newspapers is opposing Yelson's plan to destroy the Lenin mausoleum and bury Lenin in an ordinary grave, in an ordinary graveyard.
		He pointed out when they dug up Tamberlaine's grave two days later that Nazi Germany invaded Russia.
		Now, this is the height of superstitious thinking, and Marxists are supposed to be materialists and realists, and so on.
		Oh, listen, the Russians.
unidentified		The Russian is a god to them, and they're going to try to protect their God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, the Russians are the most superstitious people in the entire world, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you've got to be very superstitious to believe in Marxism.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we rank superstition-wise in the world?
		Are we a very superstitious people?
		You know, it's hard when you're living right in the middle of it to understand where you fit in with respect to the rest of the world.
		Are we very superstitious?
		Well, I've done a certain amount of traveling, but I would say we're a lot more superstitious than the Swedes or the Scandinavians generally.
unidentified		We're not as superstitious as the Irish.
unidentified		We're not as superstitious as the Mexicans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're a lot more superstitious than the English.
		So I don't know.
		We're somewhere in the middle of the superstition range.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's try another subject with you.
		Another grand conspiracy, Robert, is that the oil companies have miles and miles of shelves with carburetors that get incredible amounts of mileage, that there is free energy, alternative energy, fuel cells that are available but just can't be developed or are being suppressed by the big oil companies.
		What do you have to say about it?
		I am inclined to believe a great deal of that.
		I know they keep spending money on big full-page ads telling us solar power can't be developed yet.
		It'll take another 40 years.
		And yet I know of a friend in West Virginia who built a solar-powered house.
		I know a friend in Santa Barbara, California who has a solar-powered house.
		And I met somebody in Dallas recently who told me there's a whole suburb of Dallas that's solar-powered.
		Really?
		I think there's a great deal of money invested in the old petroleum technology, and they don't want us developing any better technologies, cheaper, more efficient, less polluting, until they've got the last penny out of the last drop of oil.
		Well, it's my understanding that at present levels of usage, we've got about 40 or 45 years left of fossil fuels.
		And I think they want to make sure we spend every penny for the whole 45 years before they let us develop any better technologies.
		And then at just the right moment, why all this stuff that's been held on the shelves will suddenly come forth, and they will have, by then, figured out a way to charge us large amounts of money for it.
		Well, Bucky Fuller, if I may quote him again, he said the reason we don't have solar and is on a big scale is because the monopolies haven't figured out how to put a meter between us and the sun.
		Yeah, there you are.
		I'm sure they will, though, and I'm sure that once they do, just short of using up all of the petroleum, which we are going to need, no doubt, for plastics, there'll be a change.
		What is your favorite conspiracy?
		Now, you've got a book coming out, The Encyclopedia of Conspiracies.
		That's the subtitle.
		The title is Everything is Under Control.
unidentified		Everything is Under Control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that won't be out until next year.
		Okay.
		Every bookstore, huh?
		Just about, yeah.
		All right.
		The Encyclopedia of Conspiracies.
		What is your favorite conspiracy?
unidentified		Oh, I guess that would be the Priory of Scion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to run that one by way.
unidentified		Well, that's pretty complicated.
unidentified		That's why it's my favorite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		There's a group of French aristocrats who definitely exist and definitely belong to an organization called the Priory of Scion.
		And according to my research, they have helped and maybe even written some of the books exposing them.
		But every book exposing them has a different theory about what the Priory of Sion is all about.
		There's one book that claims they're all descended from Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene, who were married and had a son named Merave, who's buried in the south of France.
		Another book claims that they are descended from matings between human beings and extraterrestrials from the star system Sirius.
		Another book claims they're all gay.
		And there are several other variations on it.
		This one book claims they came from Atlantis and colonized France at the beginning of history.
		And there's another one that says the secret is that they are in contact with a superior race who live inside the earth, which is hollow, which Jules Verne was a member and knew about.
		Oh, I like that.
		I like that.
		And the evidence is they really exist and that they are encouraging this kind of literature about themselves for their own whimsical reasons.
		And it's not all just a big joke.
		They all have heavy investments in banking in France, Switzerland, England, and the United States, too.
		All right, Robert, we're at the top of the hour.
		We're going to go on and we'll open the phone lines into the next hour if you can stay.
		I can stay for a while.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
		All right, stay right where you are.
		Robert Anton Wilson is with us.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		Only for a change that I can forget.
		Thank you.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is heretic Robert Anton Wilson.
		If you have questions for him before he finally writes about a conspiracy that gets him, now would be a good time.
		You just heard the numbers.
		We are available.
		And so back to him in a moment.
		All right, back now to Robert Anton Wilson.
		Robert, are you there?
unidentified		I'm still here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I do have a question for you.
		As you write and investigate all these various conspiracies, Robert, one day you've got to imagine that even if 90% of them are pure bunk, one day you're going to stumble into something really serious and they're going to get you.
unidentified		Have you ever thought about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, around 3 in the morning sometimes I get thoughts like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like when you hear noise outside or something?
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's one of the risks of the profession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But actually, even if you don't write about conspiracies, most writers, no matter what they write about, they get a few crank letters every year threatening them.
unidentified		So it's just part of, it happens to golf pros, it happens to the tennis stars, it happens to anybody who gets part of the well-known.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't have to write about conspiracy theories to feel a little bit paranoid.
		That's true.
		And even paranoids occasionally, of course, are killed.
		There's a lot of strange things going on in our society.
		For example, this murder of the fashion designer in Miami here the other day.
		Strange stuff.
		A couple of bullets to the head.
		Serial killer.
		Serial killers seem to be almost unique to America.
		Not entirely so, but generally so.
		White guys, middle-aged white guys, serial killers.
		Why?
		I don't know why, but it is very interesting that there is a lot of statistical clusters by which the FBI's behavioral science unit can pretty much give you a profile of what they're like.
unidentified		They do run in types, and they are, as you say, generally middle-aged.
unidentified		They're always white, and they're always male.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was one female serial killer in Sacramento a couple of years ago.
		Yeah, that was an exception.
		She wasn't a serial killer in the normal sense of somebody who just picks victims for the hell of it.
		She was killing people in her boarding house to collect their social security.
		Oh, that's right.
		Yeah, but there was motive there.
unidentified		Yeah, she had a, yeah, that's right.
		But she did have a series, though.
		Serial killers interest me because it's so interesting that predictions about them are often confirmed, which shows that even the most bizarre behaviors can be scientifically studied and predicted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, they ought to have this fellow, Kunan, who is accused of the murder of Versace.
		They ought to have him in hand pretty soon if they can predict.
		All right, listen, there's a lot of people who want to talk to you, so let's see what they have to say.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I want to say it's an honor to speak with you, Mr. Wilson.
		I'm a longtime fan, and this is also my first time talking with an android.
		Thank you, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, caller?
unidentified		I'm calling from Louisville, Kentucky.
		And I recently, up until last year, I guess, was a cognitive science researcher, and I can say that many people in the cognitive science, artificial intelligence community read and admire your books.
		My specialty was simple computational neuroscience.
		I was especially impressed with in quantum psychology.
		You were talking about culture as neuro-linguistic programming.
		Yes, and notions like that were fascinating.
		I had two questions real quick here and one comment on the Illuminati.
		I recently came across a paper by Thomas Paine written obviously during his lifetime where he said that the Illuminati, the Freemasons and so forth were all descendants of the Druids.
		That when the Romans had conquered those British tribes, the Druids went underground and formed these groups.
		Now we call them the Illuminati, Freemasons, and so forth.
		And all the symbolism comes, or the basis of the symbolism, comes from those ancient Druidic rituals.
		What do you think of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Tom Paine knew William Blake, the lyric poet, mystic, and Blake also believed that I think a lot of people towards the end of the 18th century were trying to trace the Masons back to the Druids, but others were trying to trace them back to the mystery schools of ancient Greece or to the Knights Temple or even halfway across the world to the assassins of the Ishmaelian sect of Islam.
unidentified		There are all sorts of alternative theories.
		We may not have gone far enough in that.
		Well, let me ask two quick things.
		You were publishing a thing called Trajectories.
		And a friend of mine also was a researcher.
		He had most of those copies.
		And now I saw that Flatland is publishing a collection of trajectories, the best of sort of thing.
		Are you still publishing anything like that?
		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trajectories, we print one issue and then the next one we put out on tape.
		The next one that will be out will be on tape.
		The last one was a print issue, about 28 pages long.
unidentified		What?
		Can you give an address where we can get that?
		Yeah, P.O. Buck 700305, San Jose, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my mind just went blank on the zip code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Jose, California, we'll get there.
unidentified		It'll just take a day extra without the zip code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, do you have a web page?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That's HTTP, as usual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Colon slash slash www.tct.com slash percentage sign 7 and then the only capital in it, a big capital E, and then back to lowercase again, T-R-I-M-E 8, the number 8, slash R-A-W dot H-T-M-L.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have to do something about that.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I'm getting it shortened, but right now that's the necessary address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I presume a search engine like Yahoo or whatever will, on your name, bring up that site.
		Yeah, well, it's easy to remember.
		It's got E prime, which is English without use of is, and it's got Prime 8, and these are both major themes in my writing.
		There is a theory.
		I interviewed somebody on a nanotechnology not long ago who suggested the first signs we're going to see of artificial intelligence are going to begin to appear on the net, that there will actually be a type of life form or life forms born on the net.
		You think that might happen?
		I think so.
		I hear, I know a lot of people in the business.
		I live right over the hill from Silicon Gulch, and I know a lot of them get very science fiction-ish, and they say signs of intelligence and growth are beginning to appear on the net already, like there's a mind there separate from the individual minds that are making it work, like the minds are blending into a supermind.
		I don't know whether I believe that or not, but it is believed by people who really work in the field all the time.
		Well, I know that it's doubling every few months now.
		It's beginning to become an entity of its own.
		Now, maybe that will spur an eventual life form.
		I wore a funny little t-shirt last night that somebody sent me.
		It said www.getalife.com.
		And I thought it was Orion, so I wore it, and somebody called me or actually faxed me mid-show and said, guess what?
		There is such a site.
		Don't surprise me.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Ard.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Wilson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		You'll have to excuse me.
		I'm really nervous.
		I never thought I'd be on the phone with a man who's impacted my life more than anyone I've ever known.
		Thank you, Mr. Wilson.
		I've got two quick questions.
		Is there a CD-ROM plan for Reality Is What You Can Get Away With?
		Not yet.
		Excuse me?
		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
unidentified		Not yet?
		There is an option on Wilhelm Seik and Hell that may be coming out as a video, but that's that option that hasn't started production yet.
		Okay, my other question was, there are several books that I can't seem to find.
		Is that six of them?
		Do you have some that just are out of print right now, or are there any plans to put them back in print?
		There are only three that are out of print.
		That's the historical novels.
		Okay.
		And the others are all in print.
		The historical novels, like The Widow's Son and The Earthful Shape?
		And Nature's God, yes.
		Okay.
		Well, great.
		I appreciate it, Art.
		And thank you, Mr. Wilson.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, sir.
		How many books have you sold?
		30 books in print?
		How many have you sold?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My agent wrote several years ago that my worldwide sales had reached half a million.
		I sought all the books together, but that was several years ago, so it's probably close to a million now, I guess.
		So a bunch.
unidentified		But that's over a period of a couple of decades.
unidentified		That doesn't mean I got a million dollars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does it work for you with writing?
		I mean, authors all are very different.
		I mean, do you dream a book?
		Do you slowly Devise a book in your mind?
		How do they generally manifest themselves before you sit down and actually begin?
unidentified		Well, every writer is different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In my case, the beginning is always hard.
unidentified		And I frequently rewrite the beginning several times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes what started out at the beginning ends up around page 70.
unidentified		But as it goes along, it goes faster and faster.
unidentified		And sometimes I write so damn much I end up with an aching back and sore legs and bleary eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it just, when it finally gets going, it just pours forth.
		Yeah, I really believe there's something even deeper than the Freudian unconscious.
		There's another mind inside of us that's really very, very creative.
		And once you get that stirred up, it takes over, and all you can do is try to keep your hands moving, your fingers moving as fast as that mind is working.
unidentified		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Florence, Alabama.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yes.
		Robert, I talked with you briefly a couple of years ago at the ill-fated Phenomicon in Atlanta, Georgia, you and Reverend Stanging for a bit.
		I was wondering, I haven't been keeping up with what's going on with the Illuminatus comic book.
		That just went bust.
		The people who were putting it out didn't have the right distribution or something.
		The book itself keeps on selling and selling, but the comic book just didn't go anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I'm not a comic book.
unidentified		Maybe my ideas don't fit into the comic book format.
		Actually, it's perfect if you could just get the right channels of distribution, which is something that along the lines of what I'd like to talk to you about.
		Refs, I could leave you my number or something off the line.
		I do have some minor connections in with some people, and we've been discussing and trying to present a line, and I think some of your stuff would work perfectly into it if we could just get something kind of going and we could talk with you about it.
		Personally, I'd just like to really see it out there again.
		I miss it, and probably a lot of other people.
		There's a market out there, albeit small, but if it was put through the right channel, I think we could do something.
		But at any rate, if I could take care of that, probably I'll be here.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you'll have to contact him through his website or email or something or another because I'm here by myself.
unidentified		Yeah, right to my website.
unidentified		Unfortunately, I'm not on the net yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		Right to P.O. box.
unidentified		I was trying to get the P.O. box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, he's got a P.O. box.
		He'll give it to you again.
		Listen carefully.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		P.O. Box 700305, San Jose, California.
		I guess you'd better do it again.
		P.O. Box 700305, San Jose, California.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Dan, and I'm the webmaster of the chat clubs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dan.
unidentified		Hi, there.
		I've been reading Robert Anton Wilson.
		I've been reading a book since the mid-70s.
		I was especially intrigued by the Luminati trilogy.
		And lately, I've gotten really interested in the New Inquisition.
		I've done a good deal of writing about pretty much the same subject, Ciscop and so forth, and recently got my name in the New York Times because of it.
		And go ahead.
		Oh, okay.
		Well, I'm interested in what you've written about Ciscop, and also I wonder if you're familiar with the latest that Ciscop is saying about the media, about buying up the media.
		Psycop?
		Psycop.
		It's a pun non-side cop, like the cops are going to take.
		Yeah, that's what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what they've been saying about the media.
unidentified		Well, what they've been saying is that they want to buy up the media.
unidentified		I don't think they have the resources financially at this point, and I'm kind of speculating about where they would get money for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a good avenue to follow there.
		There is present a deregulation by the Federal Communications Commission, Robert, and we are seeing a very rapid consolidation of broadcast facilities across the United States into fewer and fewer hands.
		Any comments?
		Yeah, well, most of the media belong to the Hearst Tramply and Rupert Murdoch and GE.
		And I don't see how PsyCop is going to buy those people out.
unidentified		This is some kind of joke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		PsycOP just doesn't have that kind of money to buy out Rupert and Murdoch, much less the Hearst Tramp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there is, though, a consolidation underway.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, but Psycop isn't going to be in charge of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, let's drop them for a second.
		How do you feel about this general consolidation going on?
		Dangerous?
		I think it's dangerous, deplorable, and frightening, but fortunately, Internet is working in the opposite direction towards more decentralization.
		That's true.
		First on Color Line, you're on the air with Robert.
		Oops, it would have been.
		You're a dial-tone.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
		Hi.
		Yes, this is Shelfran Canton.
		Yes.
		Yes, I got the name of a new dance for your art.
unidentified		Well, the Art Bell Sidestep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you let Mr. Anton Williams talk about his book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, his name is Wilson, for one thing.
unidentified		Wilson.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you want to ask him about his book?
		Well, why don't you give him an opportunity to talk about his book?
		He's got that opportunity right now.
		Sure.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		Robert?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been talking about several of my books.
		I mentioned the Animal Inquisition, the Illuminatus, and the one I'm working on.
		Everything is Under Control.
unidentified		I mentioned Wilhelm Reich and Hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would also like to mention the three Cosmic Trigger books, The Final Secret of the Illuminati, Down to Earth, and My Life After Death.
		Those three are all About my investigations of secret societies and occult conspiracies, and the reports of my own death, and art forgers, and hoaxers, and the difficulty of telling when you're dealing with a hoax and when you're dealing with a miracle.
		And I'm very, those are my thing, I think those are my three favorite books, the three Cosmic Trigger volumes.
		Are there any, you said delineating between a hoax and a miracle, are there any things that you can cite as probably genuinely miracles?
unidentified		That's a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In one sense, I think everything is a miracle.
		In another sense, there are things that are absolutely extraordinary, like the, and I'm not a Catholic, the events at Fatima connected with the miracles of our so-called Our Lady of Fatima.
		There were up to, there were 30,000 witnesses on the scene for the last set of strange events, and there were about 100,000 more who saw some of them from a distance.
		And that involved things like UFOs, and the sun seemed to move closer to the earth temporarily, and flower petals fell out of the sky.
unidentified		I wasn't there.
unidentified		I don't know what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I just can't believe the dismissive view that all 100,000 people were hallucinating.
		I don't know what was happening there, but I think it's very, very interesting, whatever it was.
		Have you seen the image of Mary on the building down in Clearwater?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't seen that?
		The image of Mary was remarkable, actually, covering the entire side of a building that formed over a period of months.
		And then some little dweeb came along and threw some graffiti on it.
		And remarkably, it cleaned itself up, and the image came clear once again.
		Quite a remarkable story.
		We've actually got pictures of that up on the website.
unidentified		All right, listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll do another half hour.
		How's that?
		Okay.
		All right.
		Robert Anton Wilson is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert, Cactus Country.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		Call our Bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Robert Anton Wilson is here.
unidentified		We'll get right back to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Robert Anton Wilson.
		Robert, maybe you'd care to comment or you wouldn't on contemporary U.S. politics and our president.
		I've sort of ceased talking a lot about politics because I perceive that a lot of what they're, even most of what they're talking about, if not all, is not relevant to our lives anymore.
		That not too many people give a damn how Newt Gingrich pays his fine or whatever.
		What's your take on it?
		Well, I regard governments as sponsored entities.
		They are owned by the people who put up the money.
		It takes $100 million to run a campaign for president.
		So whoever wins is already in debt to multi-millionaires to start with.
		And so it's not who's the president that really matters.
		What matters is who has the money.
		That's really what controls the modern world.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think Senate seats go for about $20 million on average.
		Also, there is a controversy going on now.
		This ought to be right down your alley.
		They just tested the gun that John Zero Ray supposedly used.
		And at best, it is inconclusive, or maybe it wasn't the gun.
		What do you think?
		Well, I am very impressed by that.
		And I am also impressed by the fact that every surviving member of the King family believes there was a conspiracy and that Ray was framed.
		If the whole Kennedy family came out with something like that, I'd be much more convinced there was a conspiracy in DOE Plaza.
		I don't think the whole family can possibly have gone nuts all at once.
		So you generally subscribe to the fact that he's rotting away in jail soon to die and then we'll simply never know.
		It'll be another one that goes in the files of never to be heard from again.
		Maybe that'll happen.
		Maybe this will be the one that blows up the whole cover-up system and a whole lot of the truth will start coming out.
		Okay, back to the phones.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Bell and Mr. Wilson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear?
unidentified		This is Chantelle, and I'm calling from Portland, Oregon.
		Okay.
		And I'm an indulger in the universal joke.
		Mr. Wilson, I know what I'm talking about there.
		My question is about the Prior design.
		Mr. Wilson, in your opinion, do you believe that the Sangral that they mention, and that's very important in their mythology, that the Templars were supposedly protecting, was the Sangral as in the Holy Grail, or is the Sangral as in the lineage of Jesus Christ, the Holy Blood?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think both of them are possible, but neither has been proven yet.
unidentified		Well, that's kind of what I meant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think there are so many interesting theories about the priory that trying to choose between them is impossible because none of them have really strong evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all based mostly on bluffs.
unidentified		Yeah, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they're trying to keep us interested, and I want to know why they want to keep us interested.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it's it's I've been studying them for a while, and it seems like they've suddenly popped up in sort of the underground mainstream, if you understand what I mean by that.
		They've been popping up all over the place, and the whole Etn Arcade ego is popping up everywhere.
		And like you said, I'm wondering why, you know, if they're actually perpetrating that or if someone else found it and is perpetrating it or what.
		But I find the whole mythos really interesting, and I find your writing really interesting and really helpful.
		And it's at least making people start to ask questions, and I appreciate that a lot.
		And thank goes to Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, your turn with Robert Anton Wilson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hello there.
		Hi.
		Gosh, I'm glad to get through.
		I tell you, I never thought I'd make it.
		Where are you?
		Oh, I'm in Jacksonville, Florida.
		Okay.
		W-O-K-V.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Anyway, I wanted to ask about the Bob Dobbs book, Three-Fisted Tales of Bob, and how your guests got involved with that.
		I really loved his story, The Horror on House Hill.
		It was really funny and great, you know, the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been involved with The Church of the Sub-Genius from the beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ivan Stein claims Bob is based on me, but maybe he says that to every writer he knows.
unidentified		Thanks, Bob.
		Well, it's really great.
		I think you really fit in there.
		That's a great book.
		People out there should read it.
		All right.
		Thanks a lot.
		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call, and good morning, Wildcard Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Mr. Wilson.
		I'd like to know a personal question.
		Maybe how do you select and what do you select to read these days?
		Do you take a lot of newspapers, periodicals?
		I guess you've read every book that was ever written, haven't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
		Nobody can.
		I'm extraordinarily aware of my own ignorance.
		The amount of print and computer information available is so enormous, and the amount I've managed to get through is so tiny in comparison.
		That's why I so carefully avoid making dogmatic statements.
		I'm aware that something that completely disproves everything I'm saying may be in print somewhere, but I just haven't found it yet.
unidentified		When do you go into a bookstore and at random pick things up?
unidentified		I'd just like to know how you're so well read and what advice you might have to those of us who are retired for reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, yeah, personal preferences.
		What do you like?
		Well, I trust what Arthur Kessler called the ghost in the library.
		You get certain hunches that now is the time to go into a bookstore, and you go in and you see a book that right away attracts your attention.
		So I buy it.
		This is believing that the unconscious knows more than the conscious and trusting it.
		And, of course, there are lots of subjects I'm interested in, so I keep looking for new books on those subjects.
		Now, I'm reading less books these days because I'm spending more time looking through the World Wide Web.
		You can find almost everything on the web that you want to know.
		Yeah, I was wondering out loud the other day what this is going to do to the old encyclopedia salesperson.
		Remember them?
		Oh, yeah, I was one once.
		Were you?
		I think you can find things on the web much faster than you can in an ordinary encyclopedia.
		By the way, somewhere here, I've got it.
		I've got your zip code.
		But you know what?
		I lost it.
		Actually, I was going to surprise you.
		We've got a link up on our site right now to your site, so anybody who wants to know more about you can jump up there.
unidentified		That'll give them the zip code number for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's actually where I got it.
		Damn, I lose things all the time.
		I'm convinced there's like a land of the lost where everything that's been lost, pens and stuff that you'll never find again, it's all in the land of the lost.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Ert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Andrew in Sheboygan, Wisconsin.
		All right.
		I was wondering if Mr. Wilson had any comments on the new movie coming out of Conspiracy Theory, and if he had any other videos that he might recommend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen the I haven't seen that yet, so I don't know.
unidentified		I don't think I've heard yet.
		I've just seen a couple of videos.
		You mean videos and video stores that I'd recommend?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, The Meaning of Life.
		That's great.
		That's a great one.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oops.
		You're a dial-tone.
		You're not on the air.
		Wild Guard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello there.
		Hello, Mr. Wilson and our Bell.
		Hello there.
		Exciting to talk to you.
		This is Dan in Lexington, Kentucky, listening to WLXG.
		Yes.
		And I've been an incredible fan of both of you for a long, long time.
		Thank you.
		Just would like to ask a couple of questions, if you don't mind, and I'll let you answer off there.
		First thing I'd like to ask is do you believe that there is really a they?
		And if there is, who do you think they would be?
		And do you currently do any speaking events?
		And if so, where can I find a schedule so I might be able to contact you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Docs.
		First of all, who the hell are they?
		Well, they are whoever you're afraid of, I guess.
unidentified		If you're afraid of the Freemasons, they are the Freemasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're afraid of politicians, they are the politicians.
unidentified		If you share Mike, there will be suspicions about bankers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are the bankers.
unidentified		And the second question was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You open to the first page of the website, and you find upcoming engagements, and it tells you all the places I'll be speaking for the rest of this year.
unidentified		I'm doing a workshop in Minneapolis, I mean, in Duluth next week, and I'm doing a workshop in San Francisco in August, and so on.
unidentified		It takes you right up to November.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any bookings in December yet.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we have you, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm Hank in Western Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Hank.
unidentified		Hi, Hank.
		Yeah, I would like to know if Mr. Anton Wilson has any comments about the Oriental masonry and how it crept into Europe in the early part of the 1930s and 1920s and, well, around the turn of the century.
		Has he researched that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this is the first I've heard of Oriental Masonry creeping into Europe.
unidentified		Masonry spread from Europe into the Orient is the way I know this, the way I think it went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it came back again in a new form from the Orient.
		They changed it.
		What are you suggesting?
		Well, I don't know anything about that, but I'll look out off hunting for it.
		I have a frequent guest, Richard Hoagland, who speaks about the face on Mars that you referred to earlier.
		And he is convinced that masonry and ancient rituals connected to Egypt are driving our entire space program.
		Yeah, I first encountered that theory from a guy named Downard back in the 70s.
		He had a complicated theory where the assassinations of John Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were all connected with the first moon launch and with the 33rd degree of parallel and the 33rd degree of masonry and all sorts of things like that.
		Well, this Downard was on that long before Hoagland.
		It's a very complicated theory.
unidentified		It's so complicated that I can't take it seriously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except that an awful lot of it does work.
		And you've got to wonder whether there are dates put together, cobbled together to make it work, ignoring certain other ones, or whether it's a reality.
		It's probably ultimately right down your alley.
		Rust of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
unidentified		Hey, I was calling in regards to finding out about some books that you have.
unidentified		Do you remember a while back when you had a show and you were talking about crop circles and the magnetic stuff that goes on with the molecular structure of the materials?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		How can I get a hold of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think some of the best writing is done by Linda Moulton Howe with regard to crop circles, so pick up one of her books.
		While we're on the subject, crop circles, pretty interesting stuff.
		Robert, do you have any views on it?
		They're increasing in numbers rapidly and have been since about 1990.
		A message from somebody or some sort of weird atmospheric something?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For a while, I thought there was something really profound going on.
		Then about nine different groups of people confessed how different tricks they had used to make different types of crop circles, and I got more suspicious.
		But it doesn't seem that hoaxes can explain all of them.
		They're all over the world, and they're coming faster and faster, so I'm back to just being puzzled again.
		Yeah, that's me too.
		Increasing now in this country, as a matter of fact, rapidly.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to ask Mr. Wilson about the Tesla conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The what?
unidentified		Tesla conspiracy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean when the car...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when the government moved in after his death in Geelong.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		They have thoughts about him going to the rainforest, supposedly, with a bunch of group of scientists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that one I don't know about.
		I don't know about that either.
		I do know that Tesla made a million dollars before he was 30, back in the days when a million dollars was a hell of a lot of money.
unidentified		He was a very brilliant engineer, very good technician.
unidentified		He had over 100 patents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of his later work was ignored.
unidentified		Nobody would finance it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think it was because, as he kept saying, it would make energy available to all at very cheap prices, practically nothing.
		And I think there are people who don't want energy available to the whole human race at low prices, practically nothing.
		One of your views on money, you just mentioned money.
		Ted Turner once said something that's always stuck with me.
		He said, you know, having this much money and this much success, he said, it's kind of an empty bag.
		Oh, I don't know.
		I like money.
		I think money is wonderful stuff.
unidentified		I'd like to have bags and bags of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lots of bags of it, huh?
unidentified		Well, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not quite.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ease of the Rockies, you're on there with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		I'd like to ask your guest.
		A conspiracy that I firmly believe is backed up with facts is that Pope John Paul I was murdered by members of the P2 to cover up a huge scandal that is still playing out involving the Vatican Bank.
		And I believe that the man was poisoned.
		You know, the Vatican would not allow an autopsy on the body.
		And it was just so sudden.
		And we've got a series of false statements about the man's past health and all kinds of other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of people believe that.
unidentified		What about it, Robert?
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you, I've read a lot about the P2 conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that they used the Vatican Bank to launder drug money.
unidentified		I believe they had a loop between the Vatican Bank, Banco, and Brociano, and the World Finance Corporation in Miami, which was connected to the CIA's drug and gun business down in Costa Rica.
		And I think they were into all sorts of illegal activities.
		Several of them have been convicted.
		A few of them died under mysterious circumstances while under indictment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think the evidence that they killed the Pope is absolutely convincing, although it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
unidentified		They were quite capable of that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson High.
unidentified		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, going twice, gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Anton Wilson High.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Is it possible that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're confused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're listening to your radio.
unidentified		Turn it off.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible now you were going to say something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is what possible?
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Well, he apparently has gone off to say all right.
		Let's try it again.
unidentified		I thought I was far enough away from you.
		Is it possible that by design that if to conquer something is to divide it, that this democracy that we take is such a blessing, is actually a means of keeping us divided at each other's throats rather than united and empowered?
		Well, secondly...
		And also, did I hear you mention Wilhelm Reich?
		Yes, I mentioned him a while ago.
		I think Reich has never received a fair hearing from the scientific community.
		I think that The Murder of Christ by Wilhelm Reich is one of the most profound books I've read.
		Yeah, I agree.
		That's one of his books.
		Martyrdom or Smartydom.
		That's about it.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, without much time, you're on there with Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I am calling from Duluth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And they say, I have a couple things.
unidentified		First of all, you mentioned you're coming to Duluth, and I don't know when and where.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the 23rd to the 27th, I will be one of the speakers at the Neuro-Linguistic Programming Seminar at Black Bear Hotel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, not in Duluth.
unidentified		It's outside Duluth.
		No, I don't want to scare you about coming to Duluth, but Duluth has a celebrity curse.
		Elvis, Kennedy, the Edmondson Jerry sank after leaving Duluth.
		Buddy Holly died in a plane crash three days after leaving Duluth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, kind of a strange thing, but...
		No, I've been there before and came back safely, so I'm not going to worry about it.
		There you are, Colin.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Robert, I could give you more time, but you probably want to get better something, you know?
		Yeah, I guess I've done about enough for one night, but I hope we can do this again.
		Oh, we can.
unidentified		Oh, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Listen, again, the book you said you really want to plug is Illuminatus, right?
		Yes, that's the easiest one for most people to find.
		Walk into any bookstore, that kind of deal.
unidentified		That's right, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if they look at my website, they'll find a whole list of my books they can buy directly from me at a lower price than the bookstore prices.
		Oh, really?
		Yes.
		Do you ever autograph books for people?
		Yes, sometimes.
unidentified		Sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it again sometime, my friend.
unidentified		Okay, let's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot.
unidentified		See you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, take care.
		Robert Anton Wilson, and there's a lot we didn't get to, so we will have him back, obviously.
		A lot of you wanted him on.
		You asked for it.
		You got it.
		Another person, I should tell you, tomorrow night, by the way, Daniel Brinkley, assuming he gets me his phone number.
		Danien, you're supposed to be getting me that phone number, if you're out there.
		Daniel Brinkley will be here, and he's really something.
		And let me tell you somebody I'm working on, actually, who wrote me a letter, and his name is Leonard Nimoy.
		So Leonard wrote me a letter.
		That was interesting, too.
		And he said, well, here's some stuff I've done, and I'd love to be on the show.
		Love to talk to you.
		And then he forgot to give me a phone number.
		So I finally tracked that phone number down.
		And we're going to be lining up Leonard Nimoy for you shortly.
		That should be very interesting as well.
		So, there's a full moon out there tonight, you know.
		Have you seen it?
		There are always nights, good nights, to do openline talk radio.
		Robert Anton Wilson has set us up well.
		That's next from The High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		We'll be right back.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am.
		Last two hours spent with Robert Anton Wilson.
		That was fun.
		Hope you enjoyed it.
		We'll have him back again, of course.
		And as I said, tomorrow night with lock and a good phone number, Daniel Brinkley will be here.
		Also arranging an interview with Leonard Nimoy, Star Trek's Mr. Spunk, and a whole lot more.
		There's one talented guy.
		So all of that is in the relatively immediate future, I think, and more.
		Someone writes the following to Mr. Bell.
		Was wondering when you're going to have Major Ed Dames on the show again.
		He said a little over a year ago that it would take a year before he could, quote, put his signature, end quote, on any reports of negative climactic changes.
		Well, it's been over a year, and I'm sure a lot of us are interested in hearing what he has to say about it.
		Ken from Southern California.
		Yeah, that's true.
		I might make a surprise call to Ed Dames.
		You never know and get him on and see what he does have to say about that.
		Climactic changes seem to be underway right now.
		I could almost put my signature on it.
		We're about to enter the unknown land of weirdness and open phones.
		Or open phones and weirdness.
		They go together, especially with a full moon.
		All right.
		Let's see what's in the news.
		The services for Gianni Versace are set for Friday, and he will be buried.
		They continue to seek actively Mr. Andrew Kuninan, who they believe is the serial killer that may have done him in.
		Officials said Friday, Russia's troubled Mir space station has realigned itself, back in the sun again, lights on.
		Most systems reconnected.
		Systems crashed Thursday when a cable was accidentally unplugged.
		Must have been a very bad moment.
		Our Speaker Newt Gingrich survived another challenge to his leadership with what appears to be a purge.
		The Republican Party skirmish claimed a rising young conservative, Bill Paxson.
		And apparently, the way I get this is Newt Gingrich thought Mr. Paxson was going to was trying to do him in politically, and so instead Mr. Gingrich did him in.
		Interesting.
		The Florida Supreme Court ruled the case of a man dying of AIDS, in a case of this man dying of AIDS, upheld the state law that bans physician-assisted suicide.
		So they're saying no.
		That's a very interesting topic.
		I very much am opposed to suicide.
		I haven't felt that way all my life.
		But, you know, for you, I'm not opposed to it.
		And by that, I mean I would not begin to impose my moral beliefs or ethical beliefs, personal beliefs on you.
		I'm more of a libertarian.
		I wouldn't do it.
		I've got my own reasons why I wouldn't do it.
		But I think the government has no damn business passing laws and telling you what you can and can't do with your life.
		That's bull.
		There is a tropical storm named Danny hovering ominously now off the coast of Louisiana with about 60 mile-an-hour winds.
		Now, the problem here is that it's very warm water.
		And the sooner it gets on shore, the better, because if it sits out there over that warm water, it's going to build.
		And these are the really dangerous ones when they sit out there in the Gulf and just build and build and build, feeding on the warm water.
		And then in 24 hours or less, before you know it, you've got yourself a really serious storm.
		Anyway, that's a brief overlook at what's going on out there.
		If any of that interests you, you're welcome to comment on it.
		Short of that, anything goes.
		It's a full moon.
		We don't screen calls.
		So I have no idea what's coming up.
		Whatever you feel like talking about is an air game.
		Here we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Bell.
unidentified		I'm Abby calling from Vancouver, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		All right, thank you, sir.
unidentified		What do you know about witching for water?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen it?
		Well, yeah, I know quite a bit about it.
		I can't, I don't do it myself.
		My wife is a water witch, and she's a damn good one, too.
unidentified		She uses the forked willow branch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She uses, it doesn't really matter.
		That's just an implement.
		She, in the times I've seen her use it, she's used coat hangers.
		It really doesn't matter.
		You can use anything.
		You can use a piece of wood.
		You can use whatever.
		I think the power emanates not from the implement, but from the person holding it.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		See, I saw it as a kid.
		I saw my father do it, and very successfully, but I believed at the time that it was the willow branch that was doing it, not my dad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it was your dad.
unidentified		Okay, well, thank you.
unidentified		I have to say, I just started listening to your program, and I find it fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a little different, isn't it?
unidentified		Well, and your topics are so varied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are.
		I wouldn't have it any other way.
		Otherwise, how could I do five hours?
		It would be boring.
		I couldn't sit here and talk about the same thing.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's right.
		It'd be so boring, wouldn't it, talking about the same thing every night?
		I just couldn't do it, so I don't.
		You know, where is some rule written down in talk radio that you will discuss the following thing for three to five hours every night?
		You will inject the latest political conspiracy to discuss.
		You will talk of Newt Kingridge's fine or how he just had a purge and got rid of somebody who might have been trying to get rid of him.
		And, you know, it's okay to talk about, but not for five hours every night.
		There's more to life.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there.
unidentified		Hi.
		Mr. Bell, my name is Tracy.
		I'm calling from Shenandoah Valley, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Hi.
		How are you doing, Tracy?
unidentified		Oh, pretty good.
unidentified		And I was in the other night when you had the vampires calling in, and I figured since it was a full moon, if there are any werewolves out there, I'd like to hear them call in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a lot easier to get vampires than it is werewolves.
unidentified		Oh, my.
unidentified		Well, I hope it's not making any noise for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things ought to be put in trash compactors and destroyed quite collectively.
unidentified		Also, I'd like to say I called Golden Eagle Food Storage the other day about my one-year supply.
		And they told me that you tried their product and was very satisfied with it.
		Well, there's no question about it.
		I thought that was nice that you actually try the product before you endorse it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't, that's right.
		I mean, short of some medical products for which I don't have the problem, so I can't be a judge.
		And there I use people's testimonials.
		Short of that, I try everything before I advertise it.
		But what the audience doesn't know is how much I reject.
		My network knows about that.
		They hate that.
		But I mean, I'm the one who's got to sit out here and say, this is a good product.
		Buy it.
		And I don't want to be lying.
unidentified		I would imagine there are a lot of talk show hosts or just radio stations in general, as long as they get their money for endorsing the product, they're satisfied.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um I wouldn't do it any other way.
unidentified		And uh and also I I appreciate the way that you take on things that other people are uh are kind of afraid and stay away from.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just get to the point where I'm too old to care anymore.
unidentified		Well, uh, I just uh I thought the vampire thing was so interesting.
unidentified		I thought maybe we could get some werewolves to call in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Werewolves are hard, but I'm willing to try it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Werewolves are hard.
		Now, vampires are easier.
		Why would that be?
		Werewolves may be...
		I would like to interview a werewolf.
		I've interviewed quite a number of vampires, but I think never a werewolf.
		Which could be also construed to be a shapeshifter, huh?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Is this Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would this be?
unidentified		This would be Philip from Granger, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Granger, Texas?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where is Granger, Texas, pray tell?
unidentified		That would be, I think, east of Colorado, around Texas, central Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Central Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you said Colorado, you meant Colorado, Texas?
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		Granger, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm confused.
		Anyway, it doesn't matter.
		You're down there somewhere.
		How are you doing?
unidentified		Good.
		I'd like to know, you know, what's her name?
		Evelyn Koslinski?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paglini.
unidentified		Paglini.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My witch.
unidentified		Yes, that was one of your best shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You liked that, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should see the reaction I got to that.
unidentified		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a blasphemer.
		I'm going to burn in hell.
		And so is she.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can imagine that, can't you?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know what?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to interview her, and so I did.
unidentified		Oh, that was one of your best shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one reaction.
		I appreciate that.
		But some of the other reactions, as you might imagine, were horrific.
		People were horrified.
unidentified		How can you talk about witchcraft on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the matter with you?
		Don't you understand what's going to happen to your soul?
		You're going to burn.
		I don't think so.
		I really don't think so.
		See, that's my personal belief system.
		I don't think so.
		I don't think exploration of ideas, belief systems, magic, whatever odd subject you might get onto is going to cause one to burn in hell.
		Not the God I know anyway.
		But see, he might be a different God than the one you know.
		The God I know, he just doesn't do things like that.
		He allows intellectual exploration without the threat of a blue flame on your soul.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Well, hi.
		How are you doing there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Portland, Oregon.
		Okay.
		Anyway, I wanted to ask you, I want to change the subject here a little bit.
		A while back you were talking about crop circles and stuff like that, and magnetics and stuff like that that were found in the materials of the, like vegetation and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		The molecular structure was changed and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What they determined with regard to crop circles was that there were molecular changes similar to, but not quite consistent with, the molecular change you would get if you took some of those crops and put them in a microwave oven.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the closest they can get to it.
		It's not quite the same.
		The molecular change is different from that.
		But I don't think that you get that kind of change from a couple guys with boards and chains.
unidentified		No, what about this?
		What about if they take a magnetic type field, change the frequency on it, and then did a bunch of things with it and made a disc that was the same type of deal, like magnetics or something like that, and stacked them all up and then rotated them.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What if they did?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure what you're saying exactly.
unidentified		Well, it would cause some kind of a magnetic type situation to happen and it would run at a different frequency, high at really extremely high frequency, I would assume it would cause something like that.
		Have you heard anything about that?
		I remember someone was talking about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think you need to refine your theory a little.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's certainly an electromagnetic effect that may be taking place, but who knows what it's from or where it's from or how it's done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't know any of that.
unidentified		Okay, well, didn't somebody got the idea or something like that?
		And didn't somebody go ahead and do something like that and spun it?
		Put some discs on top of each other and spun them.
		It's like an electrical motor or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're talking about...
		Thank you very much.
		You're talking about Doug Ruby.
		And what Doug did was he wrote a book called The Gift, and we interviewed him the other night, in fact twice now, last night along with Lynn Molten Howe.
		And he spun crop circles, or the image of crop circles, to obtain a three-dimensional depiction of, well, actually, a ship.
		And he thinks the more complicated crop circles, the ones popping up now, are basically designs for the system to drive that ship.
		And if you will look at the latest crop circle that I put up on the site, I scanned some pictures and put it up on the site, you will see very clearly that what we've got appearing now here in America is very much like what appeared beginning in 89 or 90 in England,
		the very simplistic circles that would seem to be what Doug Ruby defines as the beginning of the learning process, or in other words, how you would, for example, teach an animal to begin responding.
		A dolphin was the animal he referred to.
		You would begin giving it simple hand signals until a line of communication was established.
		And then, of course, once you had that, you could refine it and you could enlarge on it until you finally have a full dolphin show all based on hand signals.
		In other words, you have established communication.
		And Doug Ruby believes that these simplistic clock circles are the beginning of an effort to establish communication.
		And it makes a very, very great deal of sense.
		And I am very much looking forward to Doug Ruby getting together with Linda Moulton Howe to see what comes of all of that.
		And I suspect it will, because it's one of those things that's very, very difficult to put into words.
		You're talking about a three-dimensional visualization, and you're trying to put it into words that will sink in on the radio.
		That's hard to do.
		In fact, very difficult to do, but somehow he managed.
		And I'm looking forward to the result of that meeting, which I anticipate to occur soon.
		Again, tomorrow night, if we get the number, Daniel Brinkley.
		Coming soon, Leonard Nimoy.
		Star Trek's Leonard Nimoy.
		Actually, he's done so very much more, but I guess to me and to many of you, he will forever be Mr. Spock Mooney.
		I'm Mark Bell from The High Desert.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		Call Art Bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		You may feel that tired, you might still get by.
		Every time my name's about it, I won't cry.
		With bones in the dirt, little kids keep coming.
		The way to baby, baby, baby, baby.
		Good morning from the desert.
		Are you on the web yet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You better get up there before the life forms come.
unidentified		I feel my truth ain't always doing my right.
		There's nothing left to do tonight.
		It's so crazy on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine that life forms on the web.
		Maybe it's coming.
		Maybe it'll be soon.
unidentified		Maybe they're already there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a very serious love-hate relationship with computers.
		Right now, I love them, by the way.
		Mine are all operating fine.
		I had my last struggle, you may recall, I don't know, about a week ago, week and a half ago.
		And I am always of the view that I will either make it work or break it beyond all recognition.
		And I've done that any number of times.
		And so I appreciate the following Associated Press story.
		This comes from Isqua, Washington.
		Hope I'm pronouncing that.
		Isquah, Washington.
		Is that correct?
		Associated Press.
		A 43-year-old man was coaxed out of his home by police after he pulled a gun on his personal computer and shot it several times, apparently in frustration.
		Sergeant, Police Sergeant Keith Moon said Thursday, quote, we don't know if it wouldn't boot up or what, end quote.
		The computer in a home office on the second floor of the townhouse had four bullet holes in the hard drive and one in the monitor, according to Moon, policeman.
		One bullet struck a filing cabinet while another made it through a wall and into a neighboring unit.
		Nobody was injured but the computer.
		Police had to evacuate the entire complex after 8 o'clock while they contacted the man by telephone.
		He eventually agreed to discard the weapon and meet officers outside the building.
		They additionally confiscated three guns and a knife, but the computer, without question, is dead as a doornail.
		And the man has been taken to Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle for a medal evaluation.
unidentified		But I suspect he's sane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think he's probably sane.
		There have been moments when I've almost shot my computer.
		I've always held off from it.
		You know, in my younger days, I would have shot my computer.
		Now I've developed more patience and respect for hardware.
		And I understand that.
		But I also understand that level of frustration.
		I mean, there you are, and you have some horrendous Windows 95-related problem that won't go away.
		And you work on it for days, and soon you're losing sleep.
		And common sense begins to slip.
		And you begin to view the machine as an intellectual challenge and soon an intellectual enemy.
		And I can understand that you would snap, draw a large caliber revolver and simply put it and in effect yourself at the same time out of pain.
		He did get four slugs into the hard drive, which is, I guess, the equivalent of shooting it through the heart.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		It's Mary Ann in Clear Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mary Ann.
unidentified		Hi.
		I wanted to say something to you, and then when I'm finished, I wanted to ask you a question about the Internet.
		When you were getting upset a while back about talking about vengeance, and every night you'd come on and say, you know, that you wanted to get even and all that.
		And then last night, and one time during that time you were saying that you said you would always be that way, which I looked at the radio and I said, I hope not.
		But last night when you were asking, was her name Evelyn?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And when you were asking Evelyn about this situation, I completely disagree with the advice she gave you, so I'd just like to express that to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you disagree with?
unidentified		Well, even though she knows what it is and I don't, it was obvious you were upset about something during that time.
		And it doesn't really matter what it is.
		The fact that you would like to get even with this person, to me, it's kind of putting you to their level.
		I don't care.
		I know you don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
		I believe in revenge.
		If you do unto me and, brother, I'm going to do unto you.
		You better get out of the way because I'm going to come after you and I'm going to keep coming after you until I get you.
		That's my attitude.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's my own.
unidentified		I know it is, but I mean, I'm caring about you feeling that way.
		You've changed and grown so much in the last couple of years.
		You're real different than you used to be.
		And it's nice to see that and to experience that on the radio, especially of a male.
		And you know, there's different conditionings we go through in life.
		Some are the same, some are female, some are male.
		In my feeling, the male conditioning is just what you're saying.
		It's a heavy-duty male conditioning to get even.
		And as all I'm saying is, you need to let go of it.
		If you can find some way within your heart...
		Oh, dear.
		Okay.
		Well, anyway, I'm glad I at least said that to you.
		My question is, I've been trying to move from California to New Mexico for two years, and my house doesn't sell, and hardly anybody is looking at houses.
		Can you tell me who I would call or steer me some way to I don't have a computer, but how do you put a house for sale onto the Internet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, knowing the Internet, there's plenty of places, but if you say you're not on the Internet now.
unidentified		No, I don't have a computer or any of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, go to a friend who has one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've not investigated the real estate market on the Internet, but there surely is one.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you just find a friend who's got a computer that works, I'm sure you'll be able to list it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the Internet, of course, offers all kinds of unique opportunities because you can take a picture or pictures of your home and have those on the Internet.
unidentified		But if somebody isn't a famous person and they're just a regular person out here and they have a computer and they're on the Internet, how will people know to go to look on their page for somebody listing a house that's just on their page or whatever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're looking for a house and you're on the Internet, then you're going to go to locations where such things are advertised.
		So I can't answer the question specifically because I've never been to such a site, but I can assure you they exist.
		And if you find a friend with a computer, you'll find it.
unidentified		Okay, thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Yeah, sure.
		The Internet has unlimited, absolutely unlimited possibilities commercially and non-commercially, and that would be one area because you could put photographs of what you're selling up there.
		And I'm sure there are lots and lots of sites like that.
		I was wondering earlier with Robert Anton Wilson about the Internet itself.
		It's really intriguing to watch it and see where it's going.
		And of course, we're right in the middle of that technology, and so it's kind of exciting to be part of it.
		Now, you might take a look at my website.
		It's one of the better ones, actually, on the web, and that's no thanks to me.
		That's Keith Rowland, who's done it.
		It's a magnificent site.
		It's gigantic.
		It's almost like an internet within an internet.
		In fact, we've got what's called a search engine within our website.
		So you can go in there and put a word in.
		It will take you to the appropriate place, whatever you're searching for.
		And my website address is www.artbell.com.
		Something I meant to do yesterday, I mentioned this.
		Somebody sent me a t-shirt that says www.getalife.com.
		And then somebody wrote me and said there's actually such a site as www.getalife.com.
		And I meant to take a look at it today to see what it was.
		Maybe after I said it or wore that t-shirt, they formed it.
		Who knows?
		Or maybe it was already there.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		My name's Mike.
		I'm in the wine country in Northern California.
		Hi, Mike.
		Yeah, I just wanted to call.
		I wanted to say that show you did last night with Dr. Piglini.
		Yes.
		That was so cool.
		It was excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I said, I'm getting many.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mike, do me a favor and extinguish your radio, please.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really important to do that.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portable phoneness.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And it's not a defect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obvious.
unidentified		No, I wanted to ask you a question about, oh, God, it was months ago with Major Ed Dames.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he had that deal with the remote viewing tape, you know, the correspondence thing or whatever?
		Yes.
		And I was wondering if anyone had gotten those and if they worked or yeah, I've got it.
		Oh, you really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I guess they shipped out.
		I've got mine.
		But you know, he sent me, he did, it's funny you should mention that.
		You know, they're shrink-wrapped.
		You know, you know, you get a video cassette and you have a cover for it and then you get shrink wrap over it, right?
		And on the shrink wrap, he wrote to Art Bell number one of X number of thousands, right?
		Number one.
		I got number one.
		How about that?
		And so I'll be damned if I'm not going to take the shrink wrap off it.
		Now, he should have written that, obviously, inside before he shrink-wrapped it.
		And so now it's a historic item, and I don't want to take the shrink wrap off.
		All right?
		You can tell me, huh?
		Yeah, so I don't know what to do about that.
		It's a problem.
		It's quite a dilemma.
		Yeah, it is a dilemma.
		Thank you very much.
		I don't know what to do about that.
		Number one, it's historic.
		And I'm dying to see it, but I don't want to take the shrink wrap off.
		It's a real problem.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Paul in Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		And I've been really fascinated by the time travelers, and I ordered David Oates' reversing machine so I could tell which ones were telling the truth.
unidentified		I've got all of them on tape from now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you discerned?
unidentified		Well, I haven't got the machine yet.
		I'm going to get it by next week.
		They kind of got backordered a little bit.
		I've been waiting every day to get it, and I will let you know I got the ones from June 14th and the ones from the day before yesterday, I think you had them on.
		I also wanted to suggest that it would be fun to have an alien line one night.
		So like interrestrial aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've done that many times.
unidentified		Oh, have you?
unidentified		Oh, there's called in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, there are so many aliens out there.
unidentified		And they have called in?
		Oh.
		Okay, well, the other thing I wanted to say about David Oates is I think it would be great if everybody just flooded the Boulder Police Department with requests that they get him on the case because if they did, it would get into the major media about reverse speech, and then maybe they'd have, like on CNN, we did.
		The Ramsey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the Ramsey kisser.
unidentified		Right.
		I mean, because that would get everyone's attention to reverse speech, like springboarded into the major media's attention.
		If they brought David Oates in to review the tapes and, you know, they report everybody that get on the case, like Dr. Henry Lee and all that.
		Sure.
		If they brought David Oates in, people like Brett Van Sistern would be saying, well, what is this reverse speech?
		And then he'd be interrupted by the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before they would ever do it, though, on a high-profile case like that, or any high-profile case, I mean, look, for example, at lie detectors.
		Still not admissible, basically, in court.
		And they've been around for how many years now?
		Years and years and years and years.
		And still not admissible.
unidentified		So whether it was admissible or not, they could still go through the tastes to look for clues.
		And then also it is speech.
		So if they would get like other scientists to say, like Richard Hoagland said it was scientific, he's a scientist, and maybe run it by Dr. Henry Lee and see if they could get it admitted to let the jury decide if what they said in reverse, you know, what weight did they want to say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But see, there you are again.
		Thank you.
		It would not be admissible.
		So you can't let the jury decide anything because it's not admissible as evidence.
		So you couldn't bring it in the courtroom.
		You couldn't present it to the jury.
		The results of that are not allowed to be brought into the court and presented to a jury.
		So as much as I do believe there is certainly something to reverse speech, I definitely believe that.
		I think that it's got a long way to go before you're going to see it used in a courtroom.
		Maybe never.
		East of the Rockies or on the air?
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, I'll like to talk to Artelle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the number one requirement is to turn your radio off.
unidentified		Oh, sure.
unidentified		I have that off right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number two, tell us where you are.
unidentified		I'm from La Crosse, Wisconsin.
		Okay.
		Well, you've got me, so go ahead.
		I've got you.
		I don't have Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you do.
unidentified		Oh, you're Arthell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Well, hi, Artelle.
		Hello.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Yeah, I was wondering about your books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		Yeah, I was wondering about, you know, I've listened to you on and off maybe, I don't know, two or three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I don't know anything about you, but I don't know what could I possibly want to buy your first book for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just answered your own question.
		You don't know anything about me, you said.
		Yeah, I know, and that's okay.
unidentified		I've been trying to find out.
unidentified		I've never heard you talk about yourself at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My first book is all about me.
unidentified		And what is it about a talk show, Holmes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's called The Art of Talk.
unidentified		Oh, yeah?
		Yeah.
		Have you ever heard of Tom Lykis?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lykus, Lykus, Lykus, Lykus.
unidentified		Tom Likas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say Tom?
unidentified		Yeah, Tom Likas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His name is Tom Lykis.
unidentified		Yeah, I talked to him.
		I called him up.
		He's on Sundays here in La Crosse, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's on Sundays?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is he a preacher?
unidentified		No, no, no, no, no.
		He talks about a lot of different things.
		He does?
		Yeah, and he told me to give you a message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the message?
unidentified		The message was that he told me to tell you that the moon is made of green cheese.
		And he was wondering if you...
		He said he would debate you anytime, anytime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did debate him once in Sacramento.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I ate his lunch.
unidentified		You're full of jokes, aren't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was easy.
unidentified		Hey, there's one thing I don't like about you at all.
		My mom, you know that arthritis cartilage.
		Is that a commercial that you talked about that rebuilds cartilage?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cartilage, yes.
unidentified		Well, if that was the truth, I'm telling you, my mom suffered for 20 years.
		I have two sisters that are also suffering from it.
		And if you can find a pill that will rebuild cartilage, that would be nationwide.
		It is nationwide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was reported in the New York Times.
unidentified		Well, I'm telling you one thing.
		I'm going to call a Better Business Bureau and the FDA and find out.
		And I'm telling you one thing, you better not advertise it because I'm going to find out about it.
		Goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, huh?
		Well, tell Tom, I said his comment was cheesy.
		And as for you, I advise you to look into that arthritis assist formula, chondroydin, as one of the ingredients.
		And it's a New York Times that reported the breakthrough that allows the regrowth or the assistance of regrowth of cartilage.
		So instead of contacting the agencies you talked about, you ought to really look into it if you really are sincere about helping your family, which I sincerely doubt.
		Yeah, like it's Sundays, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a creature.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi there.
		Oh, I just want to make mention of the, I don't know if you ever saw last night, the shuttle coming in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did not see it last night.
		Of course, I saw the, you know, the photographs of the shuttle landing, but I didn't see it come in.
		What time did it come in?
unidentified		Well, I'm in Paris, Texas.
		Oh.
		And it was about 5, I guess about 5.40, 5.35.
		It was overhead, and it covered the first time I'd ever seen it.
		It was beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's astounding.
		I wish somebody had called me.
		Doggone it.
unidentified		I didn't know what it was at first until I heard on another station after you'd gone off the air that they mentioned CNN.
unidentified		Yep, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen it once, and it was the most astounding thing I ever saw in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry I missed it.
unidentified		Darn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, when it's early morning like that and the sun gets a chance to reflect on it, you really get quite a show.
		Listen, I'm top of the hour, and I've got to go, so I appreciate it.
		But yeah, it's quite a sight you saw.
unidentified		Any new news on mirror?
		I'll let you know.
		Ooh, see that girl.
		Watch that scene.
		She can't stand me free.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
		Anybody could be that guy.
		Not a dog and a music.
		Be peace and time.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a surprise for you.
		How many of you know what remote viewing is?
		Hold up your hands.
unidentified		I can't see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remote viewing is the ability of a disciplined psychic to see things at a remote location in this time frame or forward or reverse in time.
		It is a disciplined psychic.
		I guess that'd be the best way to put it.
		For 20 years, the U.S. government funded a remote viewing program, and I personally think they still are.
		But for 20 years, they did.
		Nightline did a 30-minute program on it one night.
		And I have had as a guest in the past a man involved, actually many involved in that remote viewing program, the government's remote viewing program.
		But as my most frequent guest, I would suppose, Major Ed Dames.
		And here is Major Ed Dames.
		Major, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to hear your voice again.
unidentified		It's good to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's start with this.
		There was an unfortunate delay in the issuance of the remote viewing tapes, but they're out now.
		As a matter of fact, I was talking to your vice president here a little while ago, and she said, you got yours, right?
		I said, oh, I did, yes.
		I said, but she said, well, you're way into it, right?
		I said, no.
		It was shrink-wrapped very nicely, and on the front it said number one of, I don't know, 5,000 or thousands.
		And I said, it's on the shrink-wrap.
		I can't take it off.
		If I take it off, I ruin a truly historic item.
		And so I have the tape, but I can't open it.
unidentified		Well, you have a collector's item.
		Speaking of a collector's items, you promised me an Art Bell watch about a year and a half ago.
		I still have that watch.
		Really?
		So if you want another copy of Module 1, that's some trading that's going to be involved here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got some.
unidentified		Or I want yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I can arrange it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, the tapes are in the mail.
unidentified		We had to produce and distribute the tapes ourselves rather than getting involved in other avenues, and that led to a great delay and a lot of travail on our part, a lot of period of disappointment on the part of many thousands of people, but that's open now.
		Module 1 has been mailed.
		Many people have that module already, and others will have it within 24 hours, 48 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good news for a lot of people.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is a way to realm, how to remote view.
unidentified		We are.
		And I didn't have time in making the tapes to stop and think too much about what the ramifications of that might be.
		But It's unnerving, almost a little bit scary now to think about it.
		The cat is more than out of the bag.
		Module 1 is an introductory tape, which just opens the door to these skills.
		And to make a slight correction about your definition of remote viewing, we are not psychics.
		All of us who learn remote viewing, who learn this skill, avail ourselves of a birthright, an innate ability that we all have.
		We just have not taken advantage of it in this error.
		And we haven't had the means to train it either.
		We haven't had a model.
		So this is a revolutionary step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but that's just a word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said disciplined psychic.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Okay, I'll cut you some slack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, remember a prediction you made about the A-10 aircraft?
unidentified		I remember we took on that project to find out whether or not the pilot had absconded with the aircraft.
		Right.
		And that's the reason we did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you said though it was not something, and I remember that you said it was only 80 or 90%, I can't remember which said, it wasn't a fully done project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you thought the pilot was dead.
unidentified		We put 100% probability, 100% likelihood on the demise of the pilot and the aircraft, and an 80% likelihood on the location.
		But I think we might have a look.
		Perhaps he jettisoned his bombs in northeastern Arizona.
		That may be why we swung on to that.
		But the reason we did the project was to find out whether or not lives were in danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So that was just a bit of a miss.
		But you certainly, you know, obviously the pilot is dead.
		Interestingly, I haven't heard a lot about that lately, and it kind of all got quieted down.
		It's like they had reached the location and confirmed the airplane or something, but they still haven't taken down the remains.
		I'm not even sure what happened to that story.
		It died, and I don't recall the resolution.
unidentified		The 500-pound bombs, four of them have not been retrieved.
		We can find those easily this time, and we can find it with 100% probability, 100% likelihood, a guarantee, but we have to turn it into a project.
		That's about a week's worth of work, a week and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What kind of prompted me to give you a call, and I called Ed tonight at this late hour, was the fact that somebody wrote in saying a year ago on my program, and it is true, you made some tentative findings with respect to the changing weather, Ed.
		And you said it'd probably be about a year before you put your name to them as 100% probability.
		You know, the weather changes.
		By God, we've been going through some really serious weather changes.
		There's no question about it.
		Now, I have no way of knowing.
		You know, we have a short life as human beings.
		Mortals come and go very quickly, and the weather's been around a long time.
		So it could be cyclical or not.
		I have no way of knowing that.
		But what I do know is it is changing.
		One day you said the jet stream will come down on the deck, and I didn't see a lot of weathermen across the country saying that exactly that had begun to occur.
		The jet stream literally had come down on deck, and we were getting winds, tornado-like winds, without tornadoes, and all kinds of weird things have been going on.
		So what can you tell us about the weather?
unidentified		Well, there's some things that are obvious.
		El Niño is kicking up, and you can imagine what winter and next spring is going to be like.
		Or you might not be able to imagine what it's going to be like.
		A lot of cyclonic activity along the Atlantic seaboard, U.S. Atlantic seaboard, major flooding, those kinds of things.
		You can expect that.
		And actually, we have described that as remote viewers.
		But I think the real predictive mark that we used as a milestone to discern the beginning of a global economic collapse, one of those marks has been observed,
		the ground truth, design to the ground truth has been observed, and that is that seabirds are starving along the northwest coast of the United States.
		There's nothing for them to eat.
		Now, about a year ago, this was one of the predictive marks.
		This was one of our data points that we had vis-a-vis the cue, the problem set of the next global economic collapse associated with that.
		This was one of the milestone marks that we would see associated with that that would lead us to know when this collapse was beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, is it an environmental milestone that marks the beginning of an economic collapse?
unidentified		There's an ensemble of data points that mark the beginning of a global economic collapse.
		Most of them are associated with starvation and weather, not necessarily in that order.
		In fact, it's the reverse order, weather and starvation.
		And that will lead to disease.
		We're facing a global ecological collapse, and that will eventuate in a global economic collapse.
		Well, particularly in the I think the center of mass of that will be late spring next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The stock market just went crashing through the 8,000 point, day before yesterday, I believe.
		I mean, remarkable.
		It just seems like interest rates are low.
		The economy is chugging along.
		They're talking about the deficit being taken care of by the strong economy.
		The market's way up.
		Interest rates are down.
unidentified		And the flowers are changing color in New Zealand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The flowers are changing color?
unidentified		Yes, the flowers in New Zealand are changing color.
		Now, what that means is that the ozone hole, and what scientists are about to find out, geophysicists are about to find out, is that the ozone holes are not simply polar.
		There is, as I've mentioned before, A sort of metastasis, to use a medical analogy, going on in the upper atmosphere.
		And that is sort of like a cancer eating away at many different places in Earth's atmosphere, not just the polar regions.
		But I want to get back to New Zealand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, even before that, you're right.
		There's an ozone hole over Russia now that's about 2,500 kilometers.
		It's incredible.
		There are reports from the Antarctic that single-celled animals are now exhibiting genetic change.
unidentified		Yes, and as I mentioned last year, that any starfish are dying off in the Antarctic regions.
		Also because, as I've mentioned, anything that is in the developmental stages exposed to direct sunlight, so that an egg, for instance, a frog's egg, a fish's egg, an invertebrate's egg, will not be able to withstand the rapidly increasing ionizing radiation as a result of a degrading atmosphere and ozone layer.
		So we've got a real problem at hand.
		And New Zealand's a good case in point.
		The children have a play only in covered areas.
		They wear sunscreen and sunglasses.
		But more importantly, the flowers are changing color rapidly.
		Now, if one remote views this, if they use technical remote viewing, turn one's attention to this, then one can discern the reason why.
		And that is that flowers, the colors of flowers, are there because they attract their pollinator.
		Now, bees and moths, moths in the nighttime, bees in the daytime, are the most common pollinators.
		Bees have a polarized eye, and it's very sensitive to sunlight, extremely sensitive.
		They use the lights, the position of the sun, to navigate and to find their way to food, to flowers.
		When that light changes and affects the very sensitive bee's eye, the bee can no longer navigate to its food source.
		And so flowers that are capable of changing very rapidly because they generate rapidly, they have to adapt to a new color that reflects light in a new way so that the bee can find the flower again.
		And so the color of the flower must change very rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, so is that then a good thing or a terrible sign?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you're saying it is adapting.
unidentified		It's a bad sign because it can only adapt so far.
		A point will be reached where the bee will be blinded entirely and not be able to find food in any case because the bee's eye, the insect eye, cannot evolve as fast as the flower can change color.
		And so the bees will no longer be able to find their food because it will be too bright in the ultraviolet spectrum for them to see.
		They'll be blinded also, just as sheep in Tierra del Fuego are blinded now and walk off cliffs because they have cataracts.
		So what happens when the bees can no longer be able to pollinate?
		So anything, any food crop, tomatoes, apples, all your fruits, most of your fruits and many vegetables will not be pollinated.
		And it is, you can imagine how labor-intensive it is to pollinate by hand with a brush.
		It's just not practicable.
		And that will lead to a lot of starving people.
		Watch what happens in Eastern Europe this winter.
		There is no more excess food.
		There's no food surplus.
		We could barely feed North Korea right now.
		As you know, North Koreans are allegedly starving.
		We might be able to muster enough food together to feed North Korea, but we're not going to be able to do that to Eastern European countries this winter, and you're probably going to see some cannibalism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any idea, Ed?
		My God.
		Any idea?
		You mentioned North Korea.
		That's interesting because just yesterday, the day before now, North Korean soldiers crossed into the DMZ and got into a pitched gun battle with the South Korean soldiers.
		And there was even artillery, heavy artillery being used.
unidentified		Tactics of desperation.
		If I were an Eastern European commander and I had access to a nuclear weapon, as I mentioned, I think once before, I'd point that at China.
		And I'd call the President of the United States, and I would tell the President, I demand the following, foodstuffs, gold, et cetera, in 48 hours, or I'm going to launch this medium-range ballistic missile against China.
		And that would put a lot of pressure on the United States from both China and other countries to deliver the goods on that kind of nuclear blackmail.
		Those are also tactics of desperation.
		And you might see something like that in the future because of weather and food, food shortages, and leading to tactics of desperation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, arguably, the first countries, if starvation is on the way, that are going to feel it, of course, are going to be the poor countries, correct?
unidentified		Africa is, again, I've mentioned this before, will be the first and the hardest hit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you mentioned that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Africa, that it would begin in Africa, in fact.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of timeline are we looking at now?
unidentified		About seven months from now, ballpark figure.
unidentified		So we're looking at here in Europe and in America, we're going to be facing some supply problems in the late spring of next year, but Africa will face problems beginning in about seven months from now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not a very bright outlook.
unidentified		No, it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much chance is there you're wrong, I mean, that you could be wrong, that something else could develop to change it and alter it, and it wouldn't occur quite the way you're saying?
unidentified		Let's see.
		I'm willing to bet the banks that I'm right.
		My reputation is on the line right now with your listeners, and I'm standing by what I'm saying.
		So that's I'm sticking my neck out, but I'm not because of the confidence factor we have.
		We check our work a lot when we turn something into a project at SciTech.
		We check it out.
		We rework it.
		We double-check it.
		We triple check it.
		And we stand by our data because it's a time-tested method.
		So we're looking at 100% likelihood.
		100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, with the remote viewing tapes on the way to the public or already there, there are going to be people who, hearing what you're saying about this, are obviously going to target the same thing.
unidentified		They can't do that with Module 1.
		Module 1 is an introductory tape.
		It just teaches you the beginning flying lesson, so to speak.
		Module 2 is a four-tape set, and that's for people who seriously want to learn this, because this is not a pill that you take to sit back, and it happens to you.
		It's a skill, and it needs to be learned.
		You've got to sit down and do it.
		Now, it is exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, and hold tight.
		We're at the bottom of the air.
		We'll come back and cover all that in just a moment.
		From the high desert, Ed Dames is here on CBC.
unidentified		I see dreams of dreams, red blues.
		I see them blues, but I'm in you.
		And I think to myself what I want to wonder, and I think to myself,
		Thank you.
		I feel like I'm dead.
		No more than that you turn around today Take my best away Call our bells, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly is.
		The following just facts to me from United Press International.
		You're not going to believe this in view of the discussion we're having at the moment with Major Ed Dames, Sitex Major Ed Dames.
		That's a private company, by the way.
		He's retired from the military now.
		UPI, a large-scale campaign to combat a swarm of locusts is underway in northern Kazakhstan in an effort to protect grain and other agricultural crops in the region.
		A recent spell of hot, dry weather has created ideal conditions for the insects, which move in swarms and devour, get this, nearly all agricultural crops in their path.
		The TAS News Agency reports that around 3.75 million acres of land planted with wheat, barley, and other grain are now being ravaged by the locusts.
		All available agricultural machinery in the area has been mobilized to combat the insects.
		TASS says a total of 865 tractors, 24 planes, seven generators have been spraying pesticides from early morning until late night over the past few days.
		In addition, 17 Delta Wing aircraft have been provided by the government, each of which can spray over 1,000 hectares of land per day.
		There are reports of locust swarms in other areas of Kazakhstan, and if the reports are true, experts are predicting this year's grain harvest will be severely affected.
		Normally, Kazakhstan expects to harvest around 14 million tons of grain per year.
		Is this the kind of thing you're talking about, Ed?
unidentified		It is.
		And there's another case that your listeners should know about, and that's Madagascar.
		Presently, on the island of Madagascar, there are two locust swarms, huge locust swarms, converging on each other, one moving from the north to the south, and the other in the south moving north.
		But because Madagascar is a lesser developed country and not economically important to those of us in the West, there is little news about that kind of those locust swarms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have friends in Australia and New Zealand, and when I talk to them about the ozone problem there, they're very matter-of-fact about it.
		I mean, it's just an absolute rule.
		Schoolchildren do not go out without protective headwear and shielding from the sun.
		It's just an automatic thing.
		They don't do it, and they're used to it.
		And to them, at this point, it's ho-hum.
		They say, oh, yeah, you know, that's the way it is down here.
		You just don't do it.
		And that's simply not widely known here.
unidentified		And eventually, we're going to have to spend much more time inside, much more time.
unidentified		And as remote viewers, as technical remote viewers, we perceive a decade and a half out where not many people are on the streets because of the severity of the ozone problem and the massive loss of despeciation on the planet and massive loss of life in some countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you about a selfish thing.
		I live here in the desert, as you all know, and we have a hot, blazing sun.
		Summer has finally come.
		I didn't think it was going to, but it's now finally hot.
		And we get into triple digits, 110, 113, 14.
		And the weather forecast now are regularly giving the UV index, which has been 10, 10, 10, 10.
unidentified		On a scale of 1 to 14.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's been 10.
		So that's pretty high.
		And I'm afraid to go out and sunbathe.
unidentified		Don't do it.
		In fact, in a couple of years, you're going to be wanting to migrate vertically down where it's cooler.
		And as long as you have fresh water and you have actually, as I've mentioned before, one of the nice things about having TRV as a skill and a tool is to identify food sources when all the food is dying through food crops.
		And chlorella, as I've mentioned, as bad tasting as it may be, is really the fundamental food source of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people verified that after you said it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chlorella apparently grows with very little sunlight or no sunlight.
unidentified		No, it must have sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Must have sun.
unidentified		It must have sun.
		And in fact, it flourishes and thrives in high sunlight and we don't.
		So our potential food source will thrive in conditions where we have to be, come out only at night or live underground.
		You're going to need fresh water bills.
		And you're going to need some type of a pilot plant.
		Communities will probably need to invest in the technology that allows them to produce chlorella for themselves because I don't think that logistics will be that dependable in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is it like a green goo or what?
unidentified		No, it doesn't have to be.
		It can be pressed into tablets or cakes, sort of like solid green.
		Cakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chlorella burgers.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You'll need about 10 or 15 grams of protein, which represents about 80 to 90 small chlorella pills, chlorella tabs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		Yeah, but it'll keep you alive and quite healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
unidentified		But fresh water is going to be a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		If the weather is changing, Ed, then what about this question?
		If the present farm areas or farm belts here and in other countries are no longer tenable, will there then be other areas that will become tenable?
unidentified		I'm not certain.
		I'm moving to a place personally where I know at least food will grow quite rapidly near the equator.
		In the northern and southern latitudes, where the wind speeds are very high and there is more exposure to direct sunlight, that's where the problems will lie.
		There are areas of the world where in tropical regions that if they remain tropical, food grows rather rapidly.
		In volcanic regions, for instance, volcanic soils are extremely rich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Extremely rich.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had Lyndon Molten How on one day, and I'm not going to be able to remember this properly, Ed, but she documented a mountaintop, I think back in New England somewhere, where they had this incredible 200 and some odd mile per hour wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They measured it.
unidentified		Mount Washington, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it blew for like half an hour.
		The entire building, they were afraid, was actually going to be blown away.
		Suddenly, the wind stopped totally dead and reversed course.
		And they have never, ever seen anything like it ever.
		And we're just getting all of these unusual weather reports.
		And it's the one thing that you've said in the past that just rings so true that it's underway right now.
		Where are we in the cycle of this occurring?
unidentified		I will tell you where we are in the cycle for those of you who are familiar with some basic mathematics.
		If you're familiar with a logarithmic curve, a natural E curve, it doesn't look like a regular curve, a mathematical straight line or a bell curve.
		It stays flat in time and then does a little dog leg and goes almost vertically up, almost vertically up at about a 90 degree angle.
		We're just about at that dog leg right now.
		And what that means is we're in the past, the past being the last couple of decades or so, the geophysical parameters of the Earth have changed ever so slowly.
		The changes have started.
		And what I mean by the changes, two specific changes, the disappearance of the ozone layer and the degradation of Earth's magnetic field.
		Both those things are happening concurrently.
		In fact, there's evidence that leads my company to think that loss of the ozone problem may be aggravated by some other geophysical parameters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me read you another fact.
		I've got one short paragraph from Keith in Magnetic Volcano.
		He says, Hi, our Magnetic North is now developing a rhythmic two-degree east wobble, and I've been noting this since mid-springtime.
		That's it.
		And he's reported on this again and again and again to me.
		But a two-degree east wobble?
unidentified		Well, this leads us to a discussion, perhaps, Of what in the past psychek has called a discontinuity and this thing that we could not discern that's so difficult for us to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, something that you couldn't see past, as I recall, that you said might be some sort of spiritual event, but you couldn't quite discern either.
unidentified		That's correct.
		And we so I stand corrected on that.
		It is not at all supernatural.
		It is geophysical in nature.
		Oh.
		Yes.
		And so we've done a lot of work along those lines.
		And I don't think I should get into the physics now of that, but it is not a supernatural event.
		It is strictly geophysical.
		And it happens all at once.
		It sort of is like the effects on our bodies are almost like rebooting a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reset.
unidentified		Sort of.
		Sort of resetting.
		Almost like degaussing momentarily and starting all over again.
		And I'll get into the physics behind that at some other time because I want to walk you through that process so that your listeners aren't frightened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it sort of a natural, as in nature, reaction?
		For every action, I'm told there is an equal reaction.
		Is that what we're looking at, basically?
unidentified		I think it's actually a cycle, a cyclic thing.
		It doesn't appear to be a reaction in the way that our ecology is reacting to our ill deeds.
		It appears to be a natural cycle, but I'm not certain of that.
		I am pretty sure about the physical parameters, and that's what I'll report on when we speak next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you able yet to see past it?
unidentified		We are.
		We are, but we are.
		We can see past it.
		We can discern two very critical things.
		One is that these changes, although they do not affect human beings permanently, there's no permanent damage to us.
		There is some very, very catastrophic effects on the Earth itself.
		And I'll talk about that at some other time.
		And there is something else that after the Earth re-establishes equilibrium or homeostasis, something else very significant happens.
		And that involves another race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another race.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another race of beings.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		That suddenly appears here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you by any chance, of course, we just went through this whole Roswell debacle.
		And just prior to the celebrations, I guess is the right word in Roswell, the Air Force had this news conference.
		Did you see it?
unidentified		I don't usually follow those things except in the newspaper, but I'm aware of what happened, the crash dummies, those kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was particularly humorous, actually.
		Roswell, let me ask you about it.
		You have targeted Roswell, have you not in the past?
unidentified		Yes, we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened at Roswell?
unidentified		There was a very, very advanced race.
		The so-called Greys, as I've mentioned at one point, appear to be real.
		They're not figments of someone's imagination or angel bees or anything else like that.
		Very advanced race.
		Perhaps 100 million years ahead of us on an evolutionary scale.
		There was a crash, but it was an orchestrated crash.
		And the bodies were really there.
		And the debris was really there for about two Earth hours.
		And some of the debris and some of the bodies were loaded onto vehicles.
		Then a very interesting thing happened.
		All of a sudden, memories got fuzzy and people couldn't remember what they just did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be the time compression the colonel talked of.
unidentified		I'm not sure of what others have thought.
		So all of the physical evidence disappeared.
		Disappeared.
		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember you saying that before.
unidentified		But because mind is outside of space and time, the memory of the event is indelibly etched upon all the participants in that event, and they will go to their graves believing that they really touched bodies and debris and those kinds of things.
		And in fact, they really did.
		But there is no debris, nor could there ever be, because the event didn't happen.
		It was changed.
		So for that part of time, there are two pathways.
		One in which the event happened and one in which it did not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What will happen I'm trying to touch as much as I've done.
unidentified		Now, you know, it isn't very long until a race like ours really does have, can move in time.
		And we're not talking about too many more decades where traditionally something like this could happen.
		So if you're dealing with races that are many hundreds of thousands or millions of years ahead of ours, this is no big thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ed.
		I interviewed Terrence McKenna, brilliant guy in Hawaii.
		And I gave him the classic line.
		I said, well, if there is time travel, then where are the time travelers?
		Mr. McKenna's response to that was, I thought, brilliant.
		He said, at the moment time travel is invented, they'll be here.
		What would your response to that be?
		In other words, if there is ever to be time travel, then where are they?
unidentified		SciTech has a capstone project.
		It's called Project Starman, and it deals with those kinds of issues.
		And I'll need more time to go into that with you.
		But it does deal with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Space.
		Mir is just one Catastrophe after another, the Mir space station.
		Have you looked at that at all?
unidentified		No, we have not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have not?
		All right.
		One other presently ongoing thing, as you well know, there has been a fashion designer murdered in Miami, Gianni Versace.
		And he is thought to have been murdered by a serial killer.
		Now, you said you were kind of moving away from this kind of work, and this is very recent, so I don't know if you've done anything on this or not, but I've got to ask.
unidentified		We have not looked at that, but we did send a report to the DAA's office in Colorado on the John Benet-Ramsey murder case.
		We had so many requests to look at that.
		We decided to, you know, how we support the validity and the power of TRV as a tool by doing these flagship types of projects for the public, for as a public service.
		And so we did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		These TRV tapes are getting out.
		Then the next series will get out and blah, blah, blah.
		And pretty soon there will be thousands, tens of thousands or more people able to technically remote view.
		And you said you hadn't had a lot of time to think about the consequences of that.
		But now, no doubt, you've had a little time to consider that.
		What are the likely consequences of so many people being able to do this, good, bad, what?
unidentified		I have to think that it's positive, only positive.
		In terms of survival, I know it's positive.
		People will be able to discern.
		Those who rely on others who are skilled in TRV or who practice TRV themselves are going to be able to discern what it is they need to do to survive.
		So that's pretty much a step in evolution.
		We can't evolve unless we survive.
		So that's a very positive thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's used ethically.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, when I look about at the population today, I don't have a high confidence level that many are going to use it ethically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		I think I can only speak for myself, others that I've trained, and say that your priorities change once you begin to do this.
		You just can't look at the world and yourself in it the same way anymore.
		And what you thought you might want to have done yesterday may change very quickly as you begin to look at this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the very process itself changes you.
unidentified		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Ed, we are going to schedule a show maybe next week or so, and this has been a great hour to sort of just catch up on a few things with you.
		And I really, really want to thank you for coming on with actually no notice whatsoever.
		Let's schedule a show next week, okay?
unidentified		Okay, we'll do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Major Ed Dames, thank you.
unidentified		My pleasure, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		Side text Major Ed Dames.
		He's a remote viewer.
		In case you've never heard one before, now you have.
unidentified		And I hope you're still basically intact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's one view of what may lie dead ahead.
		Depends on what you believe.
		I'm Mark Bell from the High Desert.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		CBC.
		CBC.
		Her hair is all gold.
		Her lips meet.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She's got bad days inside.
		She's kind of music on you.
		You won't have to thank twice.
		She's your New York snow.
		She's got bad days inside.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Somebody writes, Art, you coward.
		Ed Dames made a specific 100% certain, totally Looney Tunes prediction of a plant pathogen deliberately seeded by the maker and arriving in Africa in the spring of 98.
		Why didn't you ask him about that?
		Well, I didn't have to.
		He talked about the starvation, and he said it would begin in Africa, and obviously, that's what he was referring to.
		You don't have to be a rocket scientist to divine that, and his prediction remains constant near as I can tell, beginning in Africa in exactly that time frame.
		Isn't that what he said?
		It's the way I remember it.
		I'll tell you what, we will make available, if you want it, the two-hour program we did with Robert Anton Wilson on tape, or the hour we just did with Ed Dames on tape.
		Now, whether it's that or the Evelyn Paglini program yesterday, or any other program we do with a guest, you can get copies.
		Let me give you the number.
		It's 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		They do maintain a library of guest appearances that we've had here.
		And they do them upright.
		They're on high-quality tapes with digital mastery.
		They eliminate the news, commercials, and what you get is content.
		So again, that number is 1-800-917-4278.
		They've got very good high-tech about it now.
		We were talking about somebody called about werewolves earlier, said, Why don't you ever get any werewolves?
		Gary writes to me the following art, minor problem with werewolves.
		It is currently a full moon.
		Question mark.
		The werewolves have all changed and they're out peeing on trees, marking their territory.
		I should have thought of that, Gary.
		I think it's not quite a full moon.
		I've always done that.
		I go outside.
		To me, when I go outside and the moon looks full, it's a full moon.
		Technically, it may not be.
		I'm not exactly sure.
		Maybe it's tomorrow night or whatever, or the next night.
		But it's full to me.
		To my sight, it's full.
		Somebody out there can no doubt fill me in.
		I think it's pretty much full.
		How's this for synchronicity?
		Daniel Brinkley's birthday is July 20th.
		Really?
		July 20th.
		That's pretty synchronous, isn't it?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Steve.
unidentified		Where are you?
unidentified		Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utah.
unidentified		And I'm a time traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From when?
unidentified		Year 2012 is when I entered the machine.
		I can tell you a little bit about the circumstances what got me here.
		All right.
		Okay.
		Basically, right now I'm 26 years old at the time, and we ran into a bit of a problem.
		I was a computer programmer who programmed the machine which was built in Salt Lake City, near Salt Lake City, Wendell Range, actually.
		It was a massive worldwide investment.
		It was created essentially to as a massive computer which has the computer capacity to do anything, pretty much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's interesting that you should mention, in other words, it was done in essence with a computer.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yeah, it's actually a five-story complex, which is about three acres.
		And it's extremely powerful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the reason I give some credence to what you're saying is because IBM actually is working right now on the transportation of matter.
		They actually are working on that.
		There's all kinds of stories.
		You can go look it up.
		IBM is really working on that, teleportation.
		And so it might follow that what you're saying would lead to a form of time travel eventually.
		Was that the genesis of it?
unidentified		Well, the machine is actually self-learning and self-replicating using a separate complex, which is purely nanotechnology.
		Nanotechnology essentially rebuilds itself according to we have thousands and thousands of programmers working around the clock.
		This was in the year 2008 when it finally became operational, but it wasn't involved in trip time travel at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, 2012 is a particularly interesting year to have come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without risking a paradox, can you tell us generally what was going on then?
unidentified		Okay, that's the problem which I'm running into because we sent approximately 10 of my colleagues, some scientists, and we were sent back.
		And we assumed that there's five different timelines which you can be sent back in.
		And I was sent in a timeline essentially to research what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean what happened?
unidentified		Well, because the year 2012, something strange happens within the time the time machine was actually operated, when it first became operational.
		Within a month, we were the experimenters to go back.
		And the problem I ran into when I went to Salt Lake City, I didn't find a single scientist, which I knew many of my knew for years.
		I didn't find my family.
		And I'm not listed anywhere on the entire birth records of my original birthplace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		So I don't know what's going on, but for the most part, everything seems the way it seemed like a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you stuck here now?
unidentified		It appears so.
unidentified		What can I say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it like being stuck with a bunch of barbarians compared to the way it is in 2012?
unidentified		Most of it is actually no.
		It's far more civilized now than it is then.
		I'll tell you that much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there much that you can reveal to us about the immediate future without risking paradox?
unidentified		The immediate future, okay, well, there's a recession in 98, 99.
		There's a massive computer problem which results in basically a worldwide collapse near the year 2000.
		I know that sounds cliche and all that, but essentially things go really skewed from there in all directions.
		The rich get super rich and essentially isolate themselves.
		The world goes through many, many changes, especially around the year 2010 to 2012.
		And December 2012 is when I entered it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it's really not such a bad deal that you're out of there?
unidentified		Yeah, but I'm scared because I'm essentially living under a new identity here, and I don't know what's going on because nothing which happened in my past from the future is actually happening now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you appear to be in a different timeline.
unidentified		It appears so, but it's very, very similar.
unidentified		Very similar, except the differences are very minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, what are you going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to settle down and simply Make yourself a life here?
unidentified		That's what I'm doing at the present time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess there wouldn't be much choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going to stay in Salt Lake?
unidentified		I'll stay here, and I don't know what the purpose is from here on in.
		I guess just to sit around and observe what happens.
		Wait till the year 2012 and see if anything happens then.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, and I'm sure we'll hear from you again.
		Take care.
		There's a time traveler.
		Ask and ye shall receive.
		I don't know what to make of these people.
		Could it be?
		It could be.
		Yes, it could be.
		Reject it all out of hand?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
		He sounded pretty sincere, didn't he?
		You know, interestingly, the method that he talked about that brought about time travel really we have the genesis of that right now.
		You may choose to believe that what he said was total bull, but the fact of the matter is IBM really is working on teleportation.
		Did you know that?
		There are a number of articles you can read about it.
		And how big a jump from teleportation would it be to time travel?
		Wouldn't the technology that leads to one lead to the other?
		Fascinating.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		It's Josie from Richmond, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Josie.
unidentified		I was interested in hearing what Ed Baines had to say, of course.
		I always am.
		But I wanted you to know that I had a conversation with a person involved with dairies.
		You know, he talks about the babies dying.
		He talks about babies dying as a result of the needles from the cows giving the BGH to the cows.
		That's right.
		Well, this dairyman said they do not transfer needles from one cow to another.
		It's just like humans.
		They use one needle and then they throw it away.
		So that's what we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		With regard to human beings, if that had always been the case, we wouldn't have experienced the spread of AIDS the way we've had it.
		So you can't flatly say that all dairymen are that careful.
unidentified		Well, this is what he's taking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could say it's a general practice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		That's what they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but all it takes is one or two mistakes.
unidentified		Well, he just said they use one needle to each cow because, after all, this is their business.
		This is important that they not have cows die on them and so forth.
		So then the other thing, of course, you alluded to it, that he said that Dick Button, was it Dick Button?
		That man that was the pilot for the airplane that went crashed, that the crash site was over at Arizona when it really was in Colorado.
		I guess I was wrong on that one.
		But I don't discount everything he says.
		I mean, I don't know if he isn't, however, a real Dr. Doom as the other remote viewers have called him over the years.
		There is a book out by James Snobble on remote viewers, and I don't know if you've heard of the book.
		It's in paperback form now.
		And a friend of mine alerted me to this book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the name of it?
unidentified		I think the name of it is called Remote Viewers, and it's by James Snobble.
		S-C-H-N-A-D-E-L, I believe is how you spell it.
		It's in Barnes and Noble and every bookstore.
		and they...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely...
unidentified		...he's been suicidated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ed Dames has been...
		I've had, I don't know how many remote viewers on, and they all criticize each other.
		It's like ufologists.
		They all criticize each other.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I'm sure.
		But this was not a remote viewer.
		This was a man who did research on remote viewers, and of all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but I mean, you can go talk to the less than fully amazing Randy, and he'll have a lot to say about it.
unidentified		Oh, well, yeah, I don't even know how to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's as many opinions out there as there are dairy errors.
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's true, too.
unidentified		I don't know if it's going to be as bad a world as Ed says, but I do think you're right that we have an ozone problem, and we have to be doing something about it, and we don't seem to do it fast enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some things are quite clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, some things really are quite clear, and it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to see that some of what he's talking about, if something doesn't change, could come to pass.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I do agree with you.
		I wish you would ask him further about a little more on Roswell.
		And there was another question I wanted.
		I'm going to have to fax you some more questions to ask him.
		If you're going to have him on again, because it would be interesting to hear some of the other, you know, more details about Mars, more details about some of these current mysteries that are going on.
		I would like you to ask him one thing.
		My brother was killed on the Liberty, and I called you about that once.
		And we always wanted to know why Israel did it, and Israel always refused to say there was anything but a tragic accident, which we know was deliberate.
		I always want to know, the crew wants to know, too, why did Israel actually attack it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is my view that it was deliberate.
		Thank you.
		I think there is no question about it.
		Not in my mind.
		It was deliberate.
		Read the book.
		And I think there's no way you can come away with any other view of what occurred at the Liberty.
		No way.
		Now, there are probably many things that we don't know.
		And it's not like our behinds are that pure, and we may have been up to all kinds of no-good.
		I really don't know.
		But with respect to whether or not it was deliberate, I think there was knowledge, and it was deliberate.
		That's my view.
		It was too extensive, too ongoing.
		Anyway, I don't want to get into a big debate about the liberty.
		That's something we can do on another night with a guest.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, I was wondering if Ed Dames will...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, wait, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Ed Dames, what?
unidentified		If he's still putting out those packages for the remote viewer or if you can't get them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we covered that right at the beginning of the hour.
unidentified		I just got out of work and I only caught the last part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the answer is they've already shipped out.
unidentified		Well done.
unidentified		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Marthel.
		That's me.
		I was listening to your show last night with Dr. Paglini.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You had a gentleman caller describe to you a situation where he actually saw a glowing orange light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
unidentified		I'm sorry, this is Chris from Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hi, Chris.
		Yes, yes.
		I recall the gentleman.
unidentified		Okay.
		I saw a glowing orange light.
		It wasn't in my home.
		It was outside during a very windy, stormy night in March.
		You're the first person I've told this to because I feel rather silly.
		This is not something I'm accustomed to having happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it must be comforting for you to know you're not alone.
unidentified		It is.
		Of course it's comforting.
		Actually, it's kind of alarming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, these things are real.
		People don't like to talk about them because they're criticized and ridiculed when they do.
		Look at poor Francis Barwood down in Phoenix.
		But the fact of the matter is, these things are real.
		They really do happen.
		So I think that's why this is a home for that sort of thing.
		I mean, you're not laughed at here.
		I would laugh at you.
		You saw a glowing orange light?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people have seen it.
unidentified		It was a strange situation because I don't normally stay up late in the evening when this happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I've got a break here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to hold on?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		She's in anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's holding on.
		I'm Mart Bell.
		This is CBC.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		You'll know where I've been surviving.
		You'll know where I'm over you.
		You found someone and done and make my breath.
		I'll be found when you're gone and describe all that noise.
		Call Art Bell, toll three.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		Tell me you love me.
		And don't let me glad.
		Say nothing, but don't say goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, Here's one of my favorite people in all the world, Crystal Gale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		Maybe I'll.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I'll make this my country music, Cam Mauer.
unidentified		I'm gonna make my brother cry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to go see this lady live sometime.
unidentified		If they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, are they ever.
		This lady is something else.
		This morning, Christmas.
		Anyway, back to this young lady in Anchorage, Alaska, and an orange...
		An orange...
unidentified		I'm going to say it was an orange light.
		Okay.
		It was hovering probably about five feet from the ground and large?
		It was probably the size of a beach ball, maybe a little larger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what a lot of people would say?
unidentified		They'd say, ball lightning.
		We don't have lightning in Anchorage.
		It's a good point.
		If we do, it's a rare occurrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty rare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a lot more northern lights than you do lightning.
unidentified		The northern lights are in the sky.
unidentified		They're not hovering five feet off of the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
unidentified		All right.
		What did it do?
		Well, it hovered for quite some time.
		My first instinct was to turn away and then take another quick glance to make sure that what I saw was actually something real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mine would be feet, get me out of here.
unidentified		That was my first feeling.
unidentified		But then, you know, you always want to take that second look to make sure that you're okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
unidentified		And it's an interesting chain of events that went from there because that had me reeling.
		And I started looking for ways to explain this, which led me to trying to find my own spirituality.
		And within probably six weeks of seeing that, I discovered your show and been listening to your show ever since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many more things that are apparent to us visually that we, more things than we can touch that are nevertheless real.
unidentified		I'm wondering what this is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've got to be honest, I have no idea, but I appreciate your report.
		And you know what will probably happen?
		We'll get a lot more reports now.
		You're not alone.
unidentified		I'm not sure of what explanation Evelyn gave last night because after hearing that gentleman describe what he saw, it took me out for a few minutes.
unidentified		I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, I bet it did.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		We'll get more reports like that, I'm sure.
		And you know why you don't hear about it or you don't hear about it elsewhere?
		It's because when people come forward and say something like that, what they usually get is laughed at or made fun of or ridiculed.
		And that's hard to take, and so you tend to keep your mouth shut.
		Well, I simply don't do that.
		And will not.
		Maybe that has to do with the fact that I've met up with a few things in my life that I flat can't explain and probably never will be able to.
		But there's a lot more apparent going on than the scientists can explain or the philosophers can tell us about.
		You might get out a recorder.
		I get so many requests for this.
		I am a deep believer, I think, in reincarnation.
		And there is a song that I found some time ago that seems to be all about reincarnation.
		And I get so many people asking me to play it.
		So I said it's a country half hour.
		And I'm going to try and dig it out here.
		It's by Chris Christoffenson, actually.
		Hold on.
		Let me get all the artists here so I know what I'm talking about.
		If I can find it.
		And I get so many requests to play it, and I obviously can't stop a talk show to do it that frequently, but every now and then I can.
		It's a very special song to me and to a lot of other people out there.
		And here I am talking about it, and I can't find it.
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually got to interview Willie Nelson for five hours one night.
		We've got to do that again.
		Willie Nelson is an American original.
		But there was this song, not widely heard, for some reason.
		And it's a very special song to me.
		I don't know why.
		It just is.
		It's haunting.
		It's always affected me the same way every time I hear it.
		It's done by Wayland Jennings, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, and Chris Christoffesen.
		And it's called The Highwayman.
		And in fact, that was the group, the gang, the highwayman.
		And what you need to do is sit down and listen to the words.
		Listen very carefully to the words.
		Whether you're a believer in reincarnation or not, the words are absolutely haunting.
		So listen to this.
		It's...
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		It's incredible.
		I was a highwayman.
		Along the coast roads I did ride.
		Sword and pistol by my side.
		Many a young man lost her bottles to my brain.
		And his soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade.
		The master tongue made in the spring of twenty-five.
		But I am still alive.
		I was a sailor.
		I was born upon the tide.
		With the sea I did abide.
		I swirled a spoon around the horn of Mexico.
		I learned a lot of the swirls and mainsail in a flow.
		And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed.
		But I am living still.
		I was a damn building across the river deep and wide.
		We're stealing what it did to life.
		A place called Boulder on the wild cloud of mountains.
		I slipped and fell in tears of wealth on paper nose.
		They buried me in my grave tomb that knows no sound.
		But I am still alive.
		I'll always be around and around and around and around.
		I'll fly a starfish across the universe divine.
		And when I reach the other side.
		I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can.
		Perhaps I may become a highway man again.
		Or I may simply be a single drop of rain.
		I will remain I'll be back again and again and again Doesn't that sound about right to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does to me I years and years ago I fortunately I the way I ran into that was I taped I think it was MTV many years ago.
		So there was a video done with that song, which, by the way, was very good.
		And I happened to catch it.
		I don't know how.
		I just happened to catch it.
		And it haunted me.
		And for years and years and years, I wanted to find the song in some other venue other than on a videotape, you know, from MTV or whatever it was.
		And I finally ran across it on CD.
		And that song has always haunted me, and I suspect always will.
unidentified		was
		to the Rockies you're on the air good morning good morning Mr. Bell this is Robert in San Joaquin Valley hey there good morning sir good morning I love that song yeah me too take a look at the name of who wrote the song it's quite a story and how we got together with him to make that song is that right yeah if Willie's listening I got a suggestion to make Art what I think that I watched a program on PBS about building the dam in Colorado and the story behind it along with the other stories I think
		Those four men, they could make a movie of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The building of that dam?
unidentified		No, of the four in each of their stories that's in that song and put it all together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they really could.
unidentified		They really could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to talk to Willie again.
		That was really a fun interview.
		That was a neat interview.
		I loved it.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		When I talked to him, when you had him on, I asked him about coming here to the San Joaquin Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Tell him that Garth Brooks is coming back again in August.
unidentified		I still want Willie to come here because we'd love to have him here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a funny thing about country music.
		When I was young, I always hated it.
		It was rock and roll forever.
		Rock and roll or die, right?
unidentified		Me too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then one day, they sent me into a country station.
		I was starving to death, so I'd do what I had to do.
		I went to work in a country station.
		I was bound and determined that I was going to hate every minute of it.
		It slowly started to grow on me.
		Me too.
unidentified		It grew on me.
unidentified		Can I tell you two other things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		First of all, a dear lady from Lake County was trying to sell her house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I understand that there's a couple of big realtors nationwide that guarantee the sale of a house for a good price within the time frame.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard their ads.
unidentified		Yeah, me too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But she had a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, maybe she wants to sell it herself and avoid the, you know, whatever it is, 6% commission.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the Internet's not a bad idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, ultimately, that's going to be a great place to go shopping.
unidentified		The fellow that called, the time traveler from 2012?
		Yes.
		He sounds pretty credible or he's just a damn good actor.
		If he's listening, I'd like to suggest that just so he understands I know what I'm talking about, back in the 70s, it's no longer top secret, but there was an analytical program which, through computers, it was called PROS with the United States Army and TRW.
		Well, the funding wasn't there.
		The Army discontinued it, but the program would have basically represented mathematically the problem solving, which would normally take about eight teams of mathematicians many, many weeks, like eight to 12 weeks to solve one problem.
		Right.
		This program could solve in a matter of seconds.
		progressed and if this man if he really has accomplished what he says what he needs to do between now and the year 2012 he's not going to get his answers in utah in las colinas out of dallas texas ibm has their uh offices there which in the building which is high security on each Floor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I'm saying about IBM is correct.
unidentified		Yes, so.
		Well, I know.
		And he needs to contact them.
		He needs to appear to present his case to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		If everything he said is true, you know, if I was him, I think I'd do what he's going to do, and that's just lay back and enjoy the years and the life that he's got left.
		If what he says about the future is correct, I think I'd just hunker down.
unidentified		2012 may be the end for him, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's my point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if what he says is true, let's just sit down and enjoy life.
unidentified		Right.
		Got to run.
		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Robert.
		Take care.
		First time caller line, you're on air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's me.
unidentified		My name's John.
		I'm in Kansas.
		Hi, John.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty well.
unidentified		Okay.
		I would really appreciate your thoughts on a theory that I have regarding light speed.
		And that would be that E equals M V squared, not Mc squared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		V for velocity or what?
unidentified		V for a variable, not a constant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Variable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what evidence do you have that the speed of light is variable?
unidentified		Okay.
		If you were to look through like a Hubble here on Earth at an object a great distance away, whether it was the moon or another object, and you could see, for example, light traveling at its speed from the moon would take a little over a second.
		But if you could see the surface of the moon, your vision, by being increased in power, could see things as they actually happen, a distance away, like Hubble does.
		In other words, your vision, by having more power, can see something faster than light would travel to your eye here.
		Does that make sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Okay, if you can see something on the surface of the sun from here and see it as it happens, 100 million miles away, for example, if you want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you can't see it as it happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can only see it at the speed of light, as it is delivered from the surface of the sun to you.
unidentified		But if you look through Hubble, let's say you look through Hubble at the moon and there was an astronaut waving at you on the moon.
		Yeah.
		Would you not, if you had enough power behind your sight, be able to see him wave as he waved?
		No.
		Not later.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, you could only see him wave after the appropriate interval dictated by the constant speed of light.
		It's not a variable.
unidentified		Okay, then that means if you're looking through Hubble at an astronaut and he waves, then what you're seeing is the past.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		dictated by the constant which is the speed of light.
		There's no point in going further down that road.
		It's a constant.
		You can't substitute a V there without coming up with more evidence or chain of logic to support it, and you have not done so.
		The power of the tool that visualizes makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
		You will simply see a better image of something occurring at a very fixed time from the moment it occurred, depending on the distance as dictated by the constant speed of light.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Bell.
		Yes.
		This is Jaden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, usual place, Minneapolis, Minnesota.
		Okay.
		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going.
unidentified		All right, good.
		I just called to tell you, you mentioned earlier about witches calling in, and someone wrote to you, I believe, saying that you were going to burn in hell.
		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, I just called to reassure you that that's not going to happen to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it might.
unidentified		It might?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might.
		Oh, I don't know.
		I mean, you can't rule anything out.
		I may scorch in hell.
		You know, I'm down there shoveling coal with a pitchfork in my butt.
unidentified		I seriously doubt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I rather hope not, but I mean, I don't rule it out.
unidentified		Well, many religions happen to believe that hell is really not that bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you appear to be agreeing with me and suggesting that I might not mind my stay so much.
unidentified		Not exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just telling you that because...
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, well, you never know.
		We're about out of time here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		I can't hardly believe I made it in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just about didn't, actually.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		A little earlier, you had a lady call in and was referencing the Liberty in 67.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're not going to have time to get into that right now.
unidentified		Well, I can go real quick here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me see how quick you can go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got about 20 seconds.
unidentified		I was on the America when that was hit.
unidentified		And the reason that they hit Liberty was because she was transmitting confidential information that the Israelis did not want to put out what they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was trying to say, that we were not necessarily pure in that, but they certainly weren't either.
		And in my opinion, it was absolutely intentional.
		Look, show's over, gotta go.
		You get the honors.
		Tell them good night.
unidentified		Outstanding.
		Well, from the trucker in California that listens to you every night, Goodnight World.
		Have a pleasant day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's it.

▲