Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 8, 1997 - Art Bell

02:42:15

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Meru Foundation - Stan Tenen

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from July 8th, 1997.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, dependent on your time zone.
	All these prolific time zones, actually stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains in the West, all the way East, to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, South into South America, North to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet, This is Ghost Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Top of the, whatever time of day it is to you.
	Great to be here.
	Coming up, Stan Tennant.
	Stan Tennant.
	We're going to be talking about Bible codes.
	And a lot more.
	Also, standby.
	It's going to be a... Stand by.
	It's going to be a very interesting evening, I can assure you.
	Very much looking forward to it.
	I have got the distinct pleasure of welcoming KFYO AM in Lubbock, Texas.
	There's 790 on the dial in Lubbock, Texas.
	And welcome aboard.
	Glad to be back in Lubbock.
	Also, WFMN in Jackson, Mississippi.
	And I guess they're a big one down there.
	25,000 watts heard throughout the regional area.
	WFN, WFMN, FM.
	Beginning tonight, beginning now.
	Glad to have you aboard.
	Also welcoming WTKF.
	They would be at 107.3 on the dial in Newport, North Carolina.
	Another big one, 25,000 watts, probably heard all over the place.
	All over the place in North Carolina, that portion of North Carolina.
	So welcome aboard to all of those stations.
	Now, we're going to be talking about codes in the Bible here in a moment.
	Stan Tenen is the Director of Research for the Meru Foundation of Sharon, Massachusetts.
	He has a B.S.
	in Physics, 1963, from the New York Polytechnic Institute.
	Mr. Tennon has designed and produced optical and electronic equipment for doctors and surgeons.
	He holds several patents in his own right.
	In 1968, while examining the Hebrew text of Genesis, Mr. Tennon noticed what appeared to be a pattern in the arrangement of the letters.
	This observation, which prompted 30 years of research into the history and mythology of the text, has led to a meaningful understanding of traditional teachings in a modern context.
	Now, many of you will be familiar with the work of Michael Drosnin.
	Drosnin, I believe it is.
	Who wrote the Bible Codes.
	And Mr. Drosnin's take on the Bible Codes is that they relate prophecy.
	That they tell us about things to come.
	And I think that Stan Tennant's explanation of what he has found is far more elegant in every way you can imagine.
	Stan, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art.
	It's really good to be back on.
	I appreciate it very much.
	We had an excellent time about a month ago.
	Yes, we did.
	I'm sort of curious.
	Why do you think, Stan, that Michael Drosnin, Stumbled into the Bible codes and you stumbled into the Bible codes.
	I don't know if anybody else is doing serious work in the area, but you must have been, for a long time, doing parallel work with Mr. Drozdyn.
	Well, actually, our situation was somewhat different.
	I don't know Michael Drozdyn.
	My understanding is that he's a journalist, he's a reporter, and that what he is reporting on are published works and some unpublished works by statisticians, mostly in Israel now, some of whom were originally at UCLA a few years ago.
	I remember reading some of the pre-publication papers that were submitted to Statistical Science on the codes at the office of a friend of mine at UC Berkeley about maybe five or six years ago now, and so there's been a lot of time to think about this.
	But this is modern work.
	This was done statistically using computers in the last 10 or 15 years, at most.
	In fact, there was other work done much earlier by a Rabbi Weismandel around the turn of the century.
	Obviously, he didn't have computers.
	But when I started my work, I didn't know about Rabbi Weismandel at all.
	And the statistical codes in the Bible and the Torah, that work hadn't been done yet either.
	My approach to this was completely separate and was a kind of a mystery tale, an adventure, because I really didn't have any idea where it was going to lead when I first noticed these patterns simply by looking at the text in 1968.
	All right, well, these patterns, if they are real, have to be repeatable and unambiguous.
	In other words, That's the scientific method.
	They have to be repeatable, something you can see again and again and again throughout the text.
	Or is it in just a portion of the text, or all of it?
	The statistical work is through the five books of Moses, and one of the astonishing things
	about that work is that the patterns that are statistically most robust are found to
	be distributed through all five books, which is something that's very disturbing to the
	academic Bible scholars who believe that the five books of Moses were actually composed
	by humans over about a thousand year period.
	So finding codes in letter sequences that extend through all five books would seem to
	be impossible from an academic scholarship point of view, which means that they have
	a different explanation than the explanation of the religious scholars.
	My explanation is a third explanation which seems to resolve the two in an unexpected
	It resolves the two.
	Alright, so that the average human being can understand what we're talking about here.
	People say codes in the Bible.
	Baloney!
	The Bible says and means exactly what it says.
	and means. There's no need for hidden meaning in the Bible.
	It means just what it says. As you read Genesis, it means precisely what it says.
	How do you argue that's not so?
	Well, there's a couple of different problems with that.
	One, I'm not a Bible scholar in terms of the understanding of the narrative stories in the Bible.
	Obviously, I've read the Bible.
	I've read through the Hebrew Bible.
	We read through the Hebrew Bible on a yearly cycle in Judaism.
	So, I've read through the Hebrew Bible and the English translations.
	and i'm just not an expert in that or can we talk about
	uh... genesis genesis is the story well here's the preaching here this is a business
	what most people don't know
	first the bible we have in english is a translation uh...
	of one one form or The most common in the United States is the so-called King James translation, which is basically very similar to the others.
	There are minor differences.
	The official Hebrew translation is a little different from the King James.
	The Catholic is a little different than the Protestant versions.
	But these are in English.
	The original text of the Hebrew Bible is not written in English.
	It's written in Hebrew, and Hebrew has a different number of letters in the alphabet, and obviously the words are spelled differently than in English, and what most people don't know about the Hebrew Bible is that both scholars, academic and religious scholars, agree that the oldest versions of the Hebrew Bible, which none exist now, but nevertheless this is understood, were not, the text wasn't broken up into words, it was literally a sequence of Hebrew letters, and even more interestingly, Hebrew doesn't use vowels and as letters normally
	so that you literally can't even read the text unless you know we've divided up into words
	unless you know how it's properly vowelized and then you can read words that you can
	translate and that you can assemble into sentences and verses
	and that leads to the english translation that we all know and love
	even though it's hard reading the king james version uh...
	and it is hard in a lot of ways for me I've sat down and I've read, and it reads hard, but it does make sense.
	That's right.
	And there's absolutely every reason to believe that the sages and scholars who worked on these texts, worked on these translations, did the absolute best job they could.
	But, it's necessary to understand that there is a very ancient teaching about the Hebrew Bible, which is the source of all of this, that very few non-Jews, and even not very many Jews, really know about.
	I can probably dig up a quotation here directly for you if someone calls in and really wants it, but there's a Kabbalistic teaching that the very worst tragedy that ever occurred in Judaism was not the golden calf, which everyone would think of as the worst thing that you could do, but the rabbis actually taught that it was the translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek, the Septuagint translation, the original translation from Hebrew into a modern language, that was the worst tragedy.
	Why do they say that?
	Because they said the original Hebrew wasn't just a narrative story, it also included patterns in the sequences of letters, which when you make a translation are lost.
	And the tragedy was that the Hebrew Bible became known only as a narrative story.
	Now, I'm not disputing the narrative story.
	That's not an issue here.
	But, in fact, the original teachings are that it was more than that.
	When you make a translation, obviously you lose.
	You scramble up the letters.
	It's not even the same alphabet.
	All right.
	When you look at the original text, how do you find these codes?
	Well, it's really quite simple.
	First, let's describe the statistical codes that have been reported on in Michael Joslin's book.
	All right.
	Very simple.
	What the statisticians did is they asked the computer to search for A wide range of possible so-called letter, equal interval letter skip patterns.
	They would count through, say, 10 letters.
	Yes.
	And write down a letter.
	And then they'd count another 10 letters and write down the letter that occurred there.
	Right.
	And they would find that these repeated skip patterns spelled out words.
	For instance, the word Torah is spelled out at a skip of 49 letters starting pretty close to the beginning of Genesis.
	It is repeated at the beginning of Exodus.
	And it's repeated in an inverted or a related form as you go through the five books.
	And the skip is always the same.
	It's 49 letters.
	In fact, if you actually examine a table of these so-called equal interval letter skip patterns, you find they fall into two main classes.
	And this is very important in understanding what's going on.
	One class is letter skip patterns that are long, say 26 letters or 49 or 50 letters.
	Those patterns are very statistically robust.
	One can demonstrate with a high degree of statistical reliability that those patterns can't be accidental.
	They are really, and I use the word advisedly, woven into the text.
	Woven.
	Right.
	I remember that from the last interview.
	It's very important.
	Woven in.
	It is important.
	But here's my question.
	Well, let me finish.
	The other patterns, the ones that Mr. Joslin and many other people have gotten very excited about, are not these patterns.
	What are they?
	They are patterns that were also discovered statistically, but they're of much lower statistical reliability because it's not really known what proper statistical tests to make.
	All of statistical science is based on having a model.
	If you open up any introduction book on statistics, the first thing the author will say in the introduction, in the preface, in the first chapter is, the statistics is a wonderful science, but let's not forget We can't rely on statistical discoveries unless we have a model that helps to explain the context for the discovery.
	Now that's the missing piece.
	Without a context, we can't sort gratuitous, fortuitous, accidental, coincidental codes from really important ones.
	Well, alright, my question then was, how does Michael Drosnin come up with Bible codes which seem to predict future events, prophecy, and you come up with Bible codes that reach an entirely different conclusion.
	In other words, if there is a statistical reality... Yeah, let's tell them what the conclusion is, so they can compare the two.
	Alright, fine.
	That's important.
	Yes, it is.
	Let me use an example that I think the majority of the people listening will be familiar with.
	This is not from Jewish tradition, but it's based on Jewish tradition, and it's Christian teaching.
	The idea is that the Torah, if I can use this context, is not a fish of prophecy.
	It's a fishing pole of prophecy.
	It's not that they wrote down explicit prophecies.
	People mistake this.
	It's not a book like Nostradamus that's telling us explicitly what's going to happen on a particular date in the future.
	That's a fish.
	Instead, my theory is that the text is woven as a kind of exercise that a person can do
	when they read the text.
	That leads them to a state of consciousness that can enable them, possibly if they're
	a sage, if they're appropriately saintly, that can lead them to a state of prophecy
	possibly.
	Now I don't even know if such a thing really can happen, but there's a big difference between
	a list of prophecies that are a bunch of fish piled up and a method by which appropriately
	educated and caring and saintly people could achieve the level of knowledge of some of
	the sages and prophets of Judaism.
	Alright, to cut it short, if I can recall properly, in the last program there was an aha moment which came in the second hour in which you talked about geometric patterns Uh, which would enable a person to, in effect, and I'm going to be simplistic here, but enter an altered state, and for example, with respect to Genesis, literally experience creation.
	Let's tell the story, because people actually, we got an enormous response to that show.
	Close to 500 inquiries, which I'm really quite overwhelmed with.
	Can I tell a little more detail about this experience that's known in the Talmudic tradition, which most people don't know about?
	There's a famous story about Rabbi Akiva.
	Now, Rabbi Akiva was a great sage.
	He was one of the people attributed, as one of the people that we believe wrote down some of the Kabbalistic, some of the more so-called mystical texts in Judaism.
	The Sefer Yetzirah, for instance.
	He was known to be an expert on the alphabet.
	He's mentioned in the Talmud.
	He lived less than a century after the founder of Christianity and that whole circle, so it's in the same period in Um, in the same cultural context, actually.
	Um, he is said to have gone, had done a special meditation.
	Now, first, let's ask ourselves, where would an orthodox rabbi find a meditation that they would dare to do?
	Yes.
	Obviously, only looking into traditional texts.
	They weren't going to do something they made up themselves.
	There's a lot of teachings that you shouldn't do that.
	You bet.
	So, we have to assume Rabbi Kiba looked into the Torah, and used his knowledge of the alphabet, and somehow was able to do the so-called par days.
	Which is the root of our word paradise.
	It refers to the Garden of Eden, the Pardes Meditation.
	And the story goes that Rabbi Akiva and three companions who were essentially as qualified as he was, great sages, endeavored to do this Pardes Meditation.
	The experience was so overwhelming that the first person that attempted this didn't come
	out of the meditation.
	They died in the meditation.
	They were lost in paradise and never came back.
	The second person was a little more grounded and they made it back, but they were so overwhelmed
	by what they saw and experienced in this high state of consciousness that they became kind
	of a space case, we call them today.
	They were intoxicated with the experience.
	They were overwhelmed by it.
	They were not rational anymore.
	The third companion came back okay, but he was so shaken, his name is Akra I believe,
	which means the other.
	He was so shaken that he lost his religious faith entirely, and only came back with his rational mind intact.
	In fact, because his logic and his knowledge were still so good, he's actually still quoted in the Talmud, even though he's no longer considered to be a religious Jew.
	But he lost his faith.
	He lost his faith.
	Only Rabbi Akiva, who's the hero of the story, comes back whole because he enters whole. That's the story.
	He does this meditation.
	Now, Rabbi Akiva is a key figure in something else. This is during the time of the wars
	between the Roman Empire and Judea and the Jewish population.
	Stan, can you explain to me, can I stop you and ask you, what you could imagine the experience
	would be, the paradise experience or the experience of Genesis or the understanding
	of all of creation that would cause you to lose your faith.
	Well, it's sort of like having maybe a bad answer trip, to use a modern metaphor, where a person comes back so shaken that it's not that they lose their faith, it's that they can't face it anymore.
	They're in a state of, they're literally overwhelmed emotionally, and become cold emotionally because they can't deal with it.
	I don't know, maybe you could say they were burned out.
	I hope I'm not being disrespectful here.
	It was really quite a different circumstance.
	Well, but it would be, you would imagine, no matter how shocking, it would be confirmation of everything that we all want to know about.
	Confirmation of life after death.
	Confirmation of what's in the Bible and Genesis.
	Confirmation of so many things.
	That it's hard to imagine it could turn out to be a negative, particularly to the degree that you would lose your faith, that only it would reinforce your faith.
	It's hard to imagine you would lose your faith.
	Well, I don't know all of the story and all of the details.
	We'll pick up on this after the bottom of the hour.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We've got a break here.
	Networks have to do that.
	Stand by, Stan.
	Stand by, Stan.
	Stan Tennant is my guest.
	We're talking Bible codes.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	Music playing.
	Music playing.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	I wonder if you can understand the profound nature of what we're talking about.
	I wonder how many of you remember interviews done long, long ago now with many very famous prophets.
	I wonder if any of you recall that, for example, Gordon Michael Scallion, with regard to his prophecy, He claimed that prior to acquiring the power that he got, he saw an array of geometric patterns.
	Do any of you recall that?
	If not, know it now.
	One of the great prophets, I believe, modern day, is Gordon Michael Scallion.
	And he told his story, weaved his tale, that's for you Stan, very powerfully.
	And one of the things he said with regard to the condition that allowed him to acquire his prophecy Was the vision of geometric patterns that appeared to him.
	And then, and then he began to acquire the power.
	What Stan Tennant is talking about is geometric patterns as well.
	Leading to a state that one can reach called Pande's Meditation.
	We'll talk more about that in a moment.
	If it seems confusing to you, stick with us and we'll try and make it clear.
	is finally all clearing up for me.
	Back now to Stan Tennant's Stan?
	Hi.
	As you heard me mention on the air, one of the guys that I consider to be the real McCoy is Gordon Michael Scallion.
	And prior to his... He used to describe his ability to do prophecy as seeing three TV screens.
	It was just the analogy he used.
	So that the audience could understand it.
	One would be brighter and colorful, and the other two faded and less likely, indicating there is nothing locked in stone, but the most likely prophecy was the brightest picture that he would see.
	But before he acquired this ability to prophesize, he had an experience where he just about died, And he was in the hospital and saw this array, this incredible array of geometric patterns.
	That's exactly what he said.
	And it sort of resonated when you talked about geometric patterns, leading to this, was it Panday's Meditation?
	Parday's.
	Parday's, sorry.
	Paradise.
	I'm sorry, okay, Parday's.
	Say Paradise.
	Paradise.
	Yeah, and it refers to the Garden of Eden.
	And all of a sudden that clicked with me, and I wonder if he entered that same sort of meditative state.
	Of course, there's no way to know, but I'm just relating that to you, that he went out of his way to be very specific about this incredible array of geometric shapes that he saw.
	You're making an excellent point.
	I have no knowledge of Gordon Michael Scallion's work.
	It's not something that I've studied, so I can't say anything explicit.
	But, in fact, you're making an excellent point.
	It's not just Gordon Michael Scallion, but ordinary mathematical researchers have reported that if you turn over in your mind geometric forms, you sometimes have an unusual experience.
	There were some hyper-dimensional drawings, stereograms, hyper-stereograms, in a book by Brisson called Hyper-Graphics, I believe, that, as I remember, some of the researchers described as it was causing in themselves unusual experiences.
	But, you know, there's a very big difference, and Judaism makes a good point of this, and I think Christianity and Islam do too, between the particular experience of a talented individual such as maybe Gordon Michael Scallion is, and a tradition
	that can be passed on from generation to generation that codifies a particular
	meditation that has a particular and safe result within the context of the tradition.
	Well, is it not possible, Stan, that Stan Tennant might make his way to this particular Pardes meditation in a very specific mathematical way, and somebody else might, in effect, stumble onto what... Absolutely.
	Alright.
	Absolutely.
	The key, though, is that if you want, let's say, this is part of the discussion that I have when I'm trying to explain to people what it is I think I've found here, because after all, what I've come upon, which we haven't discussed this evening yet, is a means of understanding the source of the Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic alphabets.
	And the question becomes, well, why do you create an alphabet?
	Why do you write things down and how do you do that?
	Well, you do that because you want to pass something on explicitly.
	You don't want just a personal experience.
	You can have a near-death experience falling off a donkey, but it's not necessarily repeatable.
	I understand.
	But if you are talking about a spiritual tradition as opposed to a talented individual then you
	have to record somehow the exercise that leads to the experience.
	The question is can you do that in words?
	No you really can't.
	Most people who have had these extraordinary experiences say that they are ineffable, that
	they are not describable in words.
	You have to create a kind of notation not that describes the experience but that's kind
	of like Arthur Murray teaching people to dance the waltz by painting footprints on the bottom
	Of course.
	Well, that's what we think is going on here.
	In fact, like what happens spontaneously to certain talented individuals, there is a long tradition, a Torah tradition, later the Christian Bible, later the Koran, and other groups that are related to these two, that have explicit... they've charted out a kind of science of consciousness.
	You know, when I was listening to your discussion of your advertisement for the Magellan Navigation System, it really hit me directly.
	We're talking about navigating here.
	We're talking about these codes not being prophecy per se, but rather a navigation system by which a person who is prepared and talented might be able to achieve that level of consciousness.
	Have you reached it?
	Well, I can tell you I've had certain experiences, but I'm not that saintly a person.
	When I first came on this, I'll tell you exactly what happened.
	I had been studying these patterns in the text of Genesis for about ten years, and I read at one point that some of the teachings were that if you were just able to master the letters of the alphabet, Sometimes you could have a Kabbalistic experience, whatever that might be.
	So I said, okay.
	I hadn't really paid a lot of attention to it.
	I didn't really expect anything to happen, but I realized I did have to learn how to at least draw the Hebrew letters properly.
	To be able to read Shakespeare, you have to be able to read and write English.
	So I sat myself down, this was before computers, at a drawing board with a calligraphy pen and a lot of paper.
	And I literally sat there for 16 hours drawing over and over again the letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
	And what happened was at some point I got kind of dizzy and I really didn't know what was happening.
	I was very tired.
	I was sleepy.
	Maybe this was based on sleep deprivation.
	I don't know.
	I really don't have good language for this.
	I guess I'm making my point.
	You can't describe these things.
	I felt like I was kind of in a tube, in a tunnel, a vertical tunnel, the walls of which were turning around me and they were made of kind of flame and they consisted of the letters of the Hebrew alphabet connected one to the other in a kind of continuous stream that I was in the middle of.
	I got really terrified.
	This had never happened to me before.
	This is not what I do all the time.
	I don't know how long I was in the experience, but I remember I literally jumped out scared and ran out and grabbed my wife and hugged her.
	I was really quite shaken by it.
	Then I spent the next couple of years trying to somehow remember what it was that I thought I saw in this experience.
	Even though it didn't give me the explicit details of what I found later, it kept me going.
	It kept me looking.
	It kept me open to the possibility.
	That's what happened to me.
	I'm not a regular meditator.
	I was going to ask, did you pursue it again?
	Well, I did.
	In fact, what I did is, I'm a technically minded person.
	I attempted to do something scientific.
	Yeah, your B.S.
	is in physics.
	Yeah, it's just a B.S.
	I've done a little extra work, but it's only a Bachelor of Science.
	I'm not a Ph.D.
	genius in physics either.
	What I attempted to do is make a kind of graph paper that would enable me to more easily draw the Hebrew letters.
	And I found that what I ended up drawing was a series of circles.
	And when I looked at this circle pattern and stared at it and meditated on it, it did kind of elicit the same feeling that I've had before.
	And I still have the pattern.
	We actually published it in our journal a number of years ago.
	Well, what it did is it basically was designed to confuse the eye, so you couldn't gain a sense of perspective.
	May I stop you and present you with something that I would like you to consider, Stan?
	I had a guest on named Doug Ruby.
	Doug Ruby has deciphered crop circles.
	Now, this is not going to be as outlandish as you might imagine.
	If you draw a circle, And then you draw a half circle above it, and then a half circle below it.
	Now, that's what you've got.
	You've got a circle, and you've got a half... How do I describe this?
	A half hemisphere, and another half.
	You have nothing, but if you take that, And you spin it.
	What you then have is two complete circles as you achieve rotation.
	As you begin to rotate this, suddenly you have, in the spinning, two complete circles discernible to the eye.
	And what Mr. Ruby discovered, he's an airline pilot by the way, he discovered that if you take crop circles and put them on paper and go through an elaborate business and end up spinning them, They suddenly make all the sense in the world.
	And isn't it a little bit like the way you have approached the Bible?
	In other words, these are patterns as well, and they're not understood until you do the right thing with them.
	Well, that general principle is correct.
	What we're doing is not exactly like that.
	I'm trying to be a little more regular in the way I've been investigating this.
	I haven't seen Doug Ruby's work either, but I have done some work with spinning geometric patterns, and in fact they are very evocative, and they do sort of pull some of these patterns out from a flat pattern into three dimensions.
	That's right.
	If you really understand how this spinning process works, though, what we can spin in three dimensions is only a minor idea of how you can spin things.
	There are more complicated spins that one can do to a form that bring it to higher dimensions
	more fully.
	So, there's a little more formal process that one can use.
	Yes, the way you look at something is going to affect what you see.
	That's a very important principle, and we all have to recognize that.
	Whether you look at pi as a random number, error is completely determined, depends not on the sequence of digits, but on what you know about them.
	If you don't know how far from the decimal point the digits in pi are, then you can use that as a quasi-random number, and people do that.
	As soon as you're told that it's so many digits from the decimal point, it becomes exactly pi, and it's totally non-random.
	The difference between pattern and not pattern is as much in our mind as it is in data.
	That's why this is a science of consciousness and not just science per se, because there's an interaction between us and these patterns.
	So I can't tell you much about the crop circles, but I can tell you the principle is correct.
	How you look at something does affect what you see.
	No doubt about that, and that's true in science in general.
	You said you tried to remember you had the beginning of this experience or had an experience.
	How much of it, other than what you just told me, were you able to recall?
	Or are there things you can recall that simply can't be said in words?
	Well, certainly the fear and my being overwhelmed by the experience is something I can only say in words, but you don't have that experience until you have it.
	No, there really wasn't a lot.
	I wasn't really prepared for it.
	In fact, it spurred me to get more prepared.
	That's one of the reasons why I decided to take Judaism more seriously, which is my background culturally, but I wasn't really a religious person at the time.
	I realized that in order to be able to make sense of what I was seeing and experiencing and looking at, I had to stop reinventing the wheel and go back and read and study what other people had done and get myself grounded.
	Otherwise, even if I could pull this off again, I didn't want to come back like one of Rabbi Akiva's friends, dead or crazy.
	I wanted, if I was going to be able to do something, which I would still like to be able to do perhaps later in my life, is be whole enough, like Rabbi Akiva was, to be able to come back whole and intact.
	I guess the modern terminology, I forget whether this is from Robert Anton Wilson or someone else, is that you don't carry weapons into chapel perilous.
	If you go into a spiritual place defended with materiality, then you're going to get whooped by materiality.
	If you go in open and undefended, if you're a saintly person, not faking it, really there, then it can open for you, then it can be a real and positive experience.
	And I think that's what the story of Rabbi Akiva is about.
	Whether people were really fully prepared or not, or only really appeared to be prepared but weren't completely prepared.
	The whole point of the Part A's experience, I didn't really get to finish the story.
	Most people end the story where we stopped, but there's more to it.
	This is what should interest our audience and why we have some reason to believe that we aren't talking about something that may be of a special nature and consciousness here.
	Rabbi Akiva, after this event, goes on to have additional history.
	He dies tragically.
	He's literally skinned alive by the Romans, and it's a very painful situation, and he says he's in ecstasy at the time.
	He's not really feeling the pain of it.
	It's just hard for us to understand.
	I don't think I could undergo that and feel good about it.
	No.
	But before this all happened, he appoints a Jewish general, a guy named Ben Keseva, as Bar Kokhba.
	Bar Kokhba is a Hebrew Aramaic term that means son of a star.
	And my feeling is that he was talking about the same prophetic star as became important in the Christian tradition as designating the founder of Christianity.
	I think that that's part of what happened.
	The story in Judaism, however, is not the same.
	The Romans eventually do kill Bar Kokhba, and so he's not the Messiah, and that's the end of the story.
	except there are diaries kept by one of the most famous Kabbalists of all time, one of
	the leaders of the Jewish community in Islamic Spain, Rabbi Nachmanides.
	He kept diaries of a disputation that he was ordered to participate in under the Inquisition.
	Disputation?
	Well, during the Inquisition, they would set up these kind of courts where the Jews would
	have to prove, try to prove that Jesus wasn't the Messiah.
	And the Christians would have to try to prove that Jesus was, and of course, usually if the Jews didn't agree, they got killed.
	Oh, they put them on, stretched them out on racks, that sort of thing?
	Yeah, well, fortunately for Rabbi Nachmanides, this was done in the court of King James II of Aragon, who was an extraordinary leader, and who kept his word, and saw to it that the Jews weren't killed afterwards.
	But there was a persecution, and Nachmanides had to flee.
	However, during the course of the disputation, and this is documented, At one point, Pablo Christiani, the representative of the church, asks Rabbi Akiba, isn't it true that the poem it teaches that the Messiah will be born when the temple is destroyed?
	And Rabbi, not Rabbi Akiba, Rabbi Nachmanides says, yes, that's true.
	And then Pablo Christiani asks Nachmanides, well, the temple was destroyed then about a thousand years ago, why do you object to Jesus?
	And Nachmanides says, well, it's not necessarily true that a person acts in the world when they're born.
	And public Christianity, in complete frustration, says to Nachmanides, well, where's he been all this time?
	And Nachmanides replies, and this is where we get back to the story, that Messiah is waiting in Pardes, waiting in Don Aden.
	The implication is that the experience ...of this opening to a higher reality, which we've all been promised in the Western states, is not necessarily tied to an individual, such as the founder of the Christian faith, but may be related to the experience... The experience, the Farnese experience.
	All right, Stan, hold on.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	This is a test. This is a test. This is a test.
	This is a test. This is a test.
	This is a test.
	This is a test.
	We've got to get right back to where we started from.
	Do you remember that day?
	Surely you did.
	When you first came my way.
	I said no one could take your place.
	And if you get hurt, Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 8th, 1997.
	My guest is Stan Tennant.
	Stan has deciphered Bible codes from original Aramaic text.
	I believe that's correct.
	I hope that's correct.
	We'll ask about that in a moment.
	From which it is possible to discern geometric patterns.
	These geometric patterns can lead one into something called the par-days experience, or meditation, which actually allows you, according to Stan, to achieve an understanding, or no, more than an understanding, experience, for example, creation.
	A state from which not everybody returns intact, He can correct me, and I know I'm probably going down some wrong roads with this.
	I'm trying desperately to grasp it.
	And I think I have, but just when I think I have, I'm thrown a curve.
	Anyway, we'll get back to Stan in a moment.
	It's absolutely fascinating stuff, folks.
	My wife came into my den looking for me to find me immersed in Stan Tennant's tape, The Alphabet in Our Hands, third viewing of it.
	He's not only a genius, as noted before, but he is poetic in his presentation.
	I don't know if you've had time to look at the copy of Geometric Metaphors, but if you did and were intrigued by it, you'll be blown away by The Alphabet.
	Thank you, Daryl.
	And then there's one other art I have heard about a secret biblical code for years now.
	One thing doesn't seem right to me.
	The Bible originally had around 135 books before it was revised by church officials over the years.
	With this thought in mind, could you please ask Stan how the coding could possibly still be intact when portions of the Bible have been withheld and the Bible revised to just 66 books?
	That's from Tim in Lakeville, Minnesota.
	The answer is, it's really not intact, or is it?
	Stan?
	I'm not an expert on the Christian Bible, and there are some differences, but I can tell you with regard to the Torah text that the oldest copies that we have now go back about a thousand years.
	I think one of them is the so-called Leningrad Codex, which is, I believe, still in Leningrad, which is probably a different name now.
	And, in fact, there are many books that were not included in the main Hebrew Bible, even in the Hebrew tradition.
	But they do become part, at least some of them, become part of what's called the Tanakh, which is not just the five books of Moses, but it includes the writings and the Proverbs and other additional materials that aren't really part of the Bible per se in the Hebrew tradition.
	Now, the problem with translations, I think we mentioned earlier, Once you start translating these texts, and the original is actually Hebrew and or Aramaic.
	The Hebrew and Aramaic alphabets are the same.
	I said Aramaic.
	It doesn't really make any difference.
	The language is Hebrew.
	In fact, the Talmud is written mostly in Aramaic.
	And the Bible is almost entirely, the Hebrew Bible is almost entirely in Hebrew.
	The Hebrew Tanakh is almost entirely in Hebrew.
	The five books of Moses are entirely in Hebrew.
	I believe.
	Again, I'm not a real scholar of the details of the stories of the Bible.
	What we're talking about is a woven structure, supposedly coded into the sequence of letters of the Hebrew Bible before it was translated to the original Hebrew language.
	Surely that would be lost in translation.
	That's right.
	One of the distinctions between the Jewish tradition and the other Abrahamic faiths is
	that Judaism includes the Talmud, the so-called oral Torah, the oral Bible, which isn't accepted
	by Christians and Muslims, and is one of the things that divided our cultures centuries
	ago, so that you would get a different answer, perhaps, from a Christian or a Muslim than
	you would get from a rabbi on some of these questions.
	And I don't want to speak for others.
	I don't think that's appropriate.
	Let me go back to a couple of other things that you said.
	The Pardes meditation story, actually, although I was just telling it and paraphrasing it, it's not my story or my finding.
	This is actually written in the oral Torah, in the Talmud, in Aramaic, and you can find references there and read it or read translations of it today.
	The word Pardes isn't actually even a word.
	It's our word, paradise, in English.
	But in fact, it's an acronym with the P, R, D, and S.
	Again, the vowels don't appear in Hebrew.
	Stand for story level, hint level, discussion level, and foundation level.
	Now that foundation level, the S stands for sooth, you sooth, foundation.
	That's the sequence of letters that's not retained when you make translations.
	That's the area that we're looking at.
	That's what the Bible Codes researchers have found, using their statistical methods, have found codes in.
	It's not the story.
	It's not the words of the text that anybody's contesting or discussing here.
	It's the literally raw sequence of letters.
	May I ask you this?
	Did Michael Drosnin, to the best of your knowledge, decipher his coding from original Aramaic, or not?
	The research papers on which Drosten is reporting were based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, the standardized text accepted by Orthodox Jews throughout the world.
	How is it possible, Stan, that he came to one conclusion, as you pointed out earlier, fish, in essence, with very specific uh... predictions or or prophecy
	uh... actual words predicting for example a kennedy would be killed
	whatever and you on the other hand conclude that no
	this is a process uh... by which you can divine these things once you've
	entered this state In other words, if there is a code, how do the two of you disagree?
	Let me explain.
	In fact, you're putting your finger on a very important issue here.
	what what the what michael drosten and most of the other people reporting
	on the statistically detected codes have done
	probably in a couple i don't really know if they've confused two different findings
	there are really two different groups of codes the oracle's better upgraded very high statistical
	probability which spell out simple words like the word for a right or
	the name of god's yes which everyone agrees are not accidental are very real
	and no one has any explanation for then there are
	these shorter code so-called that seem to correlate with either rabbi's names or famous
	people's names with their birth dates or special events of some sort
	These are not normal codes in the same sense.
	One, they're not really predictive.
	You need to know the event before you can find the pattern.
	Any scientist would tell you that that's very, very shaky.
	Then that's not science.
	It's not science.
	No, they've actually been sloppy in mixing up two different sets of findings.
	And what I'm doing is not statistically based at all.
	I didn't have knowledge of the statistics.
	The work wasn't even done.
	What I did was I came upon by basically really brute force methods.
	It took me almost 20 years of concentrated experimentation to find a way of relating the letters in a very simple sense that displayed these patterns.
	In other words, what I did is what, let me tell the audience again because this is a very good lesson in spiritual growth too.
	I didn't know it at the time.
	I came into this as a person with a bachelor's degree in physics with an experience making medical equipment and doing electronics and that sort of thing.
	I had all kinds of technical tests at my disposal that I could use to look for these patterns.
	I tried every sophisticated test I could think of.
	One, it didn't succeed.
	Two, it finally dawned on me that I was being very arrogant here.
	I was presuming that I was the first person finding this stuff.
	It could have been known in the ancient world because they didn't have these sophisticated tests.
	In fact, that's silly.
	What I was really looking for, which I didn't know at the time, was something that could have been known in the ancient world based on technology that they did have.
	Once I realized that, I started doing things that were really simple, things that everyone does.
	Like?
	Like, for instance, all of us in our culture have the experience as children of making paper models, where the model is rigged for you to be able to assemble it, because all you have to do, if you cut it out right, is put tab A in slot A, tab B in slot B, and the thing, the model, folds up into what was intended by the person who made it.
	Right.
	Well, that's what I ended up doing.
	After giving up on all of these sophisticated techniques, after being properly humiliated technically, I was humbled.
	My arrogance was reduced.
	I spent a lot of time and a lot of effort.
	I talked to a lot of experts and got nowhere.
	I was reduced to doing... I used to tell people that this was like blithering idiot status.
	It was basically a more childlike stance.
	I started playing with it.
	What I did is I wrote the letters of the Hebrew text out, one letter each, on a bead chain, in order.
	and then I merely curled up the bead chain until the same letters lined up with each other.
	Just like Daday and Sladay.
	Voila.
	And when I did that, just like with the paper model that we all, you know, have used as children
	or seen from the news, the bead chain, the paper, folded itself up into a form that I could recognize.
	A geometric form.
	A geometric form, a very simple form.
	In fact, a very simple set of forms that unfolded one to the other in a very simple, logical, and very universal and compact and elegant way.
	And what I found was literally When I've been seeing all these years I've been studying, all the sacred geometry, all the platonic solids, all the vortex forms, instead of just seeing this mishmash that I couldn't make sense of, bingo!
	The text of the Torah, in Hebrew, at the letter level, was producing these patterns in order, in a beautiful, elegant order, that unfolded naturally.
	Like looking at a living thing.
	I understand.
	Is there a way For example, on a videotape, you may have already done it.
	And that's what the faxer may have been talking about.
	But is there a way with modern computer graphic demos, you know, the graphic ability, to actually show this occurring?
	We are working on a video right now, which we're hoping to make available to the cable stations and the networks when it's finished.
	No contracts have been signed.
	I've been working with some people In Seattle and maybe in San Francisco who have been working on computer graphic animations that literally show how this first letter point in the text blossoms and unfurls like a living thing.
	Is this not possibly dangerous though?
	In other words, if you are able through computer graphics to actually show these patterns being put together, are you not liable to put the person viewing the tape into what's called the Pardes meditation state.
	Has that occurred to you?
	It has occurred, and it is a serious consideration.
	My answer is I don't think there's much danger, and I'll tell you why.
	These ideas were never really hidden or made secret.
	They may have been in certain circumstances, which they were, but in fact they're not made secret or kept secret or written in confusing terms in Kabbalistic or Sufi text just to keep them secret.
	The reason that these texts seem opaque to us It's because most of us haven't done our homework.
	If you were to look at Shakespeare and you didn't know English, it would be opaque to you.
	There's a kind of natural safeguard built into this system where you can only really appreciate it to the level appropriate to you.
	Now, if you're really a bully and you force yourself into chapel perilous with weapons blazing, you're going to get whooped.
	You bet.
	Okay, that's a perilous person in any context.
	That's not just here.
	But if you're a gentle person, if you step humbly, and if you base your growth and exploration of these ideas on integrity, then they will open for you safely.
	That's the whole point.
	If you act recklessly, if you act in a foolhardy way when you're dealing with important spiritual concepts, yes, you can get in trouble and you can get hurt.
	But if you act within, say, one of the reasons I'm grounding my work in Judaism is because I am fearful of doing damage to myself or others, and I want to take a time-tested path that is going to help to keep me in a safe bounds with what I'm doing.
	I'm trying not to be arrogant.
	But to the extent you're arrogant, this understanding closes to you, and all you get is the external shell.
	And there are a whole bunch of spiritual gurus out there that are selling shells, if I can use that term.
	Yes, you can.
	And in fact, one of the reasons we haven't done the animation so far is because we haven't got any funding.
	And one of the reasons our funding dried up was because a plagiarist took this work and they believed he was us.
	And they're still doing it.
	So, you know, you can't win with that.
	You just have to go forward.
	I can imagine, though, that with computer 3D graphics, You could take the letters, you could form the shapes, show how they're formed, but I can also imagine that it would potentially be dangerous for the viewer.
	Well, it could be, but let me ask you this.
	The rabbis teach that there's a common everyday experience that's actually very close to prophecy, which we all have, called dreaming.
	Dreams, particularly lucid dreams, are considered in Jewish tradition, and this is just a symbolic number, to be a 160th part of prophecy.
	What is lucid dreaming?
	Well, lucid dreaming is where you become aware that you're dreaming.
	That you act with volition in the dream to some extent.
	You take charge of the dream.
	You become aware that you're actually asleep and that this is not the waking world.
	Okay, you are actually asleep.
	Or not.
	What state, how would you describe the state?
	Is it something you could do during the daylight hours with your eyes open?
	Or is it something that would occur at night in a dream state?
	Well, I guess it depends on how practiced you are.
	There are several really good books out, and there's been some first-class research done on lucid dreaming.
	I think there's a doctor, Oliver Burge, I believe, connected with Stanford that's written a number of books.
	I don't know him personally, but my understanding is that there's a body of modern scientific work That helps a person to gain access to lucid dreaming and that enables them to grow with that expansion in their conscious life.
	I can only explain what my personal experiences have been, which have been very limited, but I know one thing is really striking about lucid dreaming and that is the access to it is the same In the Talmudic tradition from the Middle East coming to us thousands of years ago as it is in Carlos Castaneda's recent works a few decades ago on the Aki Indians.
	In both cases in the Talmud and in Castaneda the recommendation is if you would like to become lucid in your dream remember to look at your hand in your dream.
	And that's what takes us right back to the beginning of our discussion because in fact The Hebrew and later Greek and Arabic letters appear to be shadows of our hand.
	And if we look at these letters in our waking life and look at these letters in our mind's eye, then we're going to open ourselves to lucidity in this life and in our dream life.
	And maybe, when we qualify, these processes will open for us to a deeper level.
	That's at least my conjecture.
	I mean, I don't know of anybody who's actually taken this all the way.
	We don't have any messiahs around at the moment.
	I think that's probably a good thing.
	There's a teaching that the messianic experience is always available, and when we merit it, it'll happen.
	I know others have different teachings.
	That's a Jewish teaching.
	It may be that the Pardes meditation itself is the messianic experience, and that we're all ultimately intended to Emulate the founders of our faith and walk in the shoes of a Moses, or a Jesus, or a Muhammad, or whoever, depending on your tradition and beliefs, had access to these levels.
	Maybe that's what's coming forward in this century.
	The rabbis have taught for several hundred years now that the modern age is going to bring these kabbalistic, these mystical, so-called, they're not really mystical, but that's a word that's used, these teachings to everyone.
	It's the scientific world that's going to open the emotional world, open the locks of these codes, and enable us to regain our heritage.
	What I want to do when we come back, Stan, is ask you about NDEs, the near-death experience, and what you think that is.
	I have interviewed many, many, many PEs, and frankly, what a lot like what you said you went through when you got near or into the par days experience.
	We'll be back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
	Music.
	and and
	and and
	you're listening to our The original Aramaic text of the Bible.
	Coding within it.
	Coding, not complicated, but simple, actually.
	presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
	Are you grasping this? The original Aramaic text of the Bible, coding within it. Coding
	not complicated, but simple actually. Designed to allow you to experience what is written
	in the Bible, or to experience, if you will, paradise.
	Or a creation to actually understand and become involved with the process as it was or is designed to be.
	Are you grasping this?
	We'll get back to my guest Stan Tennon in a moment.
	Back now to Stan Tennon's...
	Stan, you're back on the air.
	Alright.
	Can I make a couple of comments on what we left off with?
	You may.
	You were mentioning near-death experience.
	Yes, near-death and I want to interject one other aspect or question and that has to do with soul travel.
	I've interviewed a bunch of people about soul travel and the traveling You're very insightful.
	There are definite connections.
	Let me be clear with the audience, Phil.
	My understanding is a work in progress.
	I don't really have all the answers.
	I haven't experienced much revelation.
	I'm speaking as a researcher, and some of what I'm saying is accomplished fact.
	We have been able to show that the coded patterns in the Hebrew Bible lead to the construction of the alphabet, for instance.
	But we haven't been able to... No one I know has done these meditations.
	I've been studying this for nearly 30 years.
	The sages of the Talmud were elderly, learned persons who were pious all their lives before they had access to these levels.
	So, one of the real questions, which you mentioned earlier, is safety here.
	What's the difference between a haphazard approach and a safe approach?
	I don't know, and I'll tell you this.
	I would not begin to try it, Stan.
	I wouldn't begin to try it.
	I'm nowhere near that fine.
	Well, me too.
	That's how I feel.
	I'm taking this step by step also.
	You know, in Jewish tradition, we read through the Bible every year in a cycle.
	In the last week or so, the portion that we read concerned the Levites, the sons of Aaron, I believe, that offered strange fire and were destroyed.
	That's the point here.
	If you are fortunate and talented and you have an experience on your own, that's wonderful.
	For someone else to try to do what you did, though, may not be appropriate to them.
	In order for it to not be strange fire, not be just somebody's personal experience, but rather a tradition we can pass on, we can all grow from that's still alive thousands of years later at our time, the point is we want to ground what we're doing In the traditional knowledge of these traditions, of the Bible, of the Torah, of our sages, we want to take their advice, we want to do it step-by-step, and we want to what I think our sages would say amounts to perfect our character, because there's a direct relationship between this near-death experience and how dangerous it is, and one's ego.
	One's integrity.
	A person who is very egocentric, who is looking for power and control, they have a very hard time with these experiences.
	They're shattering experiences.
	A mellower person, a person who has been humbled a little in their life, who's not so haughty spiritually or intellectually, tends to have a gentler, safer time of these experiences.
	The prerequisite for these experiences to open for you, for anybody, is the intention to develop your integrity, your emotional and intellectual honesty.
	Talk about the codes.
	The very first letter of the Hebrew Bible, the first letter of the word we translate in the beginning, is the letter B, B, B, B in Greek, B in Hebrew, B in English.
	It means a house.
	It represents the distinction between inside and outside.
	In every archetypal way possible.
	A person who is having a near death experience, their skin, like Rabbi Akiba when he died, their skin is dissolving.
	Their inside and outside is becoming the same thing.
	That's why we call it ego death.
	Because one's ego literally melds back into one's, I don't know what the right term is, call it soul.
	This experience happens to everyone when they die.
	It happens to some of us during life in traumatic situations, accidents, surgery, a many number of things.
	There are rituals under which these kinds of experiences have been encouraged in various cultures.
	There are current peyote rituals in some of the Amerindian cultures.
	There were the use of ergotamine in ancient Egypt.
	The Greeks had their soma.
	The Eastern traditions have various Agents and drugs they sometimes use in a ritual situation, I'm not talking about experimentation here, as initiators.
	In our society too, heavy doses of narcotics during surgery may be a cause of some of these floating experiences or trigger them or open to them.
	It can be an accident, it can be a trauma, it can be a shock, it can be any kind of initiator, but these things are not repeatable.
	If you want to hand down a tradition, a faith path, a path that leads to, if I can use that term in a general context, leads to God, however you understand that, and not to some substitute or second-rate deity, if I can even conceive of that.
	It's like a plant.
	I'm reaching for the real sun in the sky and not for neon lights that make it turn out at somebody's whim.
	Then I need to record that faith path.
	That's what these hand gestures do.
	They have functioned like Arthur Murray painting footprints on the ballroom floor to teach us how to do the Foxtrot.
	But instead, they enable us to move from mental state to mental state in our mind.
	What a real, serious, non-mystical meditation is, an exercise, a dance in the mind that leads to a particular feeling experience.
	That's what the Western traditions, the Abrahamic traditions, have recorded.
	That's the fishing pole that they've given us.
	It's not one or two prophecies.
	It's not a Nostradamus laundry list that we get.
	It's rather to the extent that we have integrity.
	It's our access to experience the prophetic state for ourselves and to learn how to teach others to reach for the same goal.
	That's part of what is the positive side of this.
	What percentage of people on the planet right now would you guess are Well, I really don't know.
	You know, it would be pretty arrogant of me to say it takes a guy that's had a lot of schooling to do this, because that would mean me.
	I wouldn't exclude anyone.
	I would say a child could do this, maybe innocently and thus safely.
	Tribal traditions, indigenous traditions today, I think there are many.
	Very high practicing Buddhists who maybe could do this.
	I would suspect people close to the Dalai Lama might be able to reach these levels.
	What about Native Americans with their sweat lodge?
	I think it's possible.
	Surely the kinds of discussions that Constaneda was sharing with us would lead one to believe that there are people who can be warriors, who can be impeccable, which means honest, which means having integrity, who can do these things.
	I think that it would be arrogant of me to say that there's any soul that's permanently lost.
	If you believe in a transcendent God, and God isn't a little God, then anything is really possible.
	The odds may be infinitesimal.
	I hate to say this, Dan, but I think that if every American were to suddenly have this experience, 90% of us would be Uh, lost in the netherworld and utter vegetables when we came back.
	That's the heartache, that's why the story of Rabbi Kiba and his three companions is to tell us what happens if we think we're ready, but we're not quite ready.
	Exactly.
	But I'm not going to judge other people on that.
	I know people that I would never have guessed would be as spiritually open and advanced as they turned out to be when I first saw them.
	And I know other people who are high and mighty and have all kinds of credentials.
	And as far as I can tell, maybe it's just my limitation, but they don't appear to know much at all.
	Okay, ready or not, I still have to say again, if you were actually able to produce a videotape with the geometric patterns You might be producing something extremely dangerous for somebody to view, and even somebody who is not ready might view it, and sitting there in some level of concentration, these geometric patterns, they might slip into a place they can't come back from.
	Well, you're both right, but I think you're making a presumption you don't have to make.
	I'm just making a guess.
	You know, many of our great mystics have described their opening to these views as simply their study of nature.
	They were looking at a flower unfurl.
	Sure.
	Well, in fact, watching a flower unfurl can lead to very deep mystical experiences.
	Similar to looking at the Grand Canyon or the stars at night.
	Yes, sir.
	Well, that's what the animation would show.
	I know, but if you do your job correctly, you're going to impart not just the geometric patterns,
	but you're going to impart an understanding of what's being seen.
	And if the person grasps that, they're going to have that experience.
	Well, look, I don't want to argue with you.
	In a sense, you're right.
	You do not want to give children a book of matches in a room full of gasoline.
	Yes, sir.
	And if I am telling you these are powerful effects and that they're real, then yes, they definitely do have to be used with respect.
	One shouldn't power trip with this.
	One shouldn't try to exploit it.
	There are very, very strong teachings that one doesn't exploit these sort of teachings.
	I call it city tripping, S-I-D-B-H-I, where you learn some spiritual tricks and then use
	it to enrich yourself.
	That's an awfully cheap thing to do with something this valuable.
	Even if it doesn't hurt you, it's a foolish waste.
	What you want to do with these techniques is to perfect yourself, is to become a better
	person, a more giving, a more loving person.
	If you're a Jew, you want to be able to really appreciate what Moses left for us in a deep, personal way.
	If you're a Christian, you want to emulate the path of the founder of Christianity.
	You want to step in Jesus' footsteps, so to speak.
	If you're a Muslim, you want to aspire to the sublime submission of a Muhammad.
	That's your goal.
	And so what you can do with what's really here, if you are humble, if you are caring, is you can approach what these great sages and teachers have been able to do.
	And to the extent that you are gentle, you will only get the levels that are safe for you.
	If you're an arrogant person and I give you a gun or nuclear energy or a spiritual teaching, you can abuse it.
	The good guys and the bad guys usually have the same technology.
	The Nazi scientists were working on the same theories of the atom bomb that our scientists were working on.
	Thank God they didn't get there.
	And I'm not saying that we necessarily have used this power so wisely ourselves, either.
	But in fact, the good guys and the bad guys, Pharaoh and Moses, had the same magic.
	But they didn't have the same connection.
	And religion In its best sense it's about connection and memory and waking up and integrating your own personality.
	It's not a matter of just following rules.
	That's how you start off.
	You teach a kindergarten child the rules.
	But later you encounter a person with these teachings.
	They're not supposed to end in Sunday school.
	They're supposed to start there.
	This is not something that you just study.
	Learning to be a more honest person is a way of life.
	And you don't have to be a religious person to know that.
	All of our philosophers would teach that, whether they were religious in the Western sense or in any sense at all.
	Even atheists know that.
	So these are deep, deep principles that we all share regardless of our faiths or our beliefs.
	And we access them by the level of our integrity and our intention to be giving people and learning people and yielding people.
	And when we aspire to that, Then life opens for us.
	And when we try to control and manipulate, we get scared, as I was when I had this experience with the alphabet, then we limit ourselves.
	And we have to fight our way.
	We have to work our way back to knowledge.
	So, I mean, this is part of working our way back to knowledge.
	It's part of what the Kabbalists call Tikkun.
	Repairing the world.
	And you repair the world by repairing yourself.
	Answer this.
	Is there a way for a Ego-tripping.
	Self-absorbed.
	Greedy.
	You know, all the modern attributes that we could more or less assign to a lot of people who are walking around today.
	This kind of person.
	Is there a way for this kind of person to approach this experience and change slowly?
	Or if you begin to have this experience, are you doomed?
	I think that again really depends on your inclination.
	If you approach this with respect, then it will open slowly to the extent that you can handle it.
	If you jump in before you're ready, you get into a race car and floor it before you know how to handle it on the track, you're going to crash up.
	That's what's happening with a number of people and teachers that are out on the public scene now.
	You see the lunacy on the internet.
	The internet is a wonderful communication pathway, but it also contains stuff that will
	get us all in trouble.
	Humility when you're handed something powerful is very important.
	A child that doesn't appreciate what matches can do in a room full of gasoline really isn't
	ready for those matches.
	So yes, you're right.
	You don't give a criminally insane person techniques for doing anything.
	You try to calm them down and get them sane first.
	But to the extent that we are not insane people, that most people are normal people at various stages of development and various places in life and we're not gratuitously vicious or mean.
	And that we're intending to be good people, even if we don't get it right every time.
	If you're humble and you're in that position, and if you study seriously what our great sages have taught, and not just head off on your own, then yes, this can open in a very safe way.
	In fact, I think that's part of what the New Age is really intended to do, is to open this can of worms gently, so that we can savor it.
	So we can experience it in a way that's going to be helpful to us, so it doesn't burn us out.
	We want to find safe uses for our modern technology.
	We want to do things that are going to help us to live together and build an ecology that works together.
	These same principles that we're worried about hurting us are the same principles we have to master if they're going to help us.
	All right.
	I still think I would sit and think a hundred times before I would watch.
	Me too.
	You too.
	People say, Stan, haven't you done these meditations?
	You've been working on this for 30 years.
	I say, look, there are a lot of things that are really important in life that take more than 30 years to work on.
	I'm a coward with regards to pushing the limits here.
	Me too.
	But I'm not so much a coward, I don't want to look.
	I try to be a good person, but I understand my own limitations.
	I have, Stan, a lot of, for example, I believe strongly in revenge.
	I'm a very ambitious person.
	In fact, I know that doesn't translate, in my case, to greedy.
	I'm not greedy, but I am very ambitious.
	I want to be the very best at what I'm doing.
	These are egotistical markers, I'm sure.
	If I were to have that kind of experience, I'm not sure I'd come out on the other end at all whole.
	I don't think I'd do it, Stan.
	Well, you may be under or overrating yourself.
	Just because you want to be the best tree you can be doesn't make you a bad tree.
	Well, I know, but if you're prideful at your branches and your leaves, then you may be in trouble.
	Well, and if you're aware of that, you may be starting to grow.
	See, no one ever gets there.
	The question is, do you intend to be going in the right direction?
	No one ever is going to be perfect.
	None of us are ever going to be saints.
	I don't know any saints.
	I don't know any saints.
	I'm not going to be a saint.
	But I do know I would prefer to learn to be a better person than to continue to be as limited as I've been in the past to the extent I'm aware of those possibilities.
	I would also like the people I know to be able to grow and improve and enjoy their lives better.
	I mean, grow and improve doesn't mean that he winds up with the most toys wins.
	Sure.
	It means that we all can share an enjoyable and fulfilling life together.
	So again, encapsulated, those who have had NDEs or have experienced soul travel or some other form of meditation that gives them great insight or abilities, even abilities, they come out of it able to prophesize or whatever.
	You are, in effect, stumbling into it, bumbling into it, and what you have is, you have discovered a woven ability to actually enter this state at will, through codes in the Bible.
	That sums it up?
	Yeah, basically this is the time proven path that the great sages of the Western world have recommended.
	It's this path that all of our great leaders looked into and attempted to tread on.
	And so, the benefit of this is that it's a tested formula.
	It's not somebody's Rube Goldberg machine, which may or may not work.
	Nothing wrong with Rube Goldberg machines, but they're not easy to translate.
	You've said the Great Pyramid has been called the Bible in stone.
	And I have been drawn, Stan, to the Giza area of Egypt.
	In fact, I am going October 1st with a lot of my fans.
	And when we get back, we'll talk about that.
	The Great Pyramid.
	The Bible in stone.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	Welcome to the Coast to Coast AM show.
	This is a relay of the show's opening credits.
	This is a replay of the show's opening credits.
	A night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	A night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	We are going to get the phone lines open shortly for Stan Tennant.
	Something I think we did not do last time.
	I asked the audience last hour whether they were getting it.
	I said, are you getting this?
	The response to that so far is about 50-50.
	About half the people are saying, no, I didn't get it last time, and I don't get it this time, and it's boring.
	The other half of the people are saying, oh my god, I get it.
	So it's either an ecstatic I get it reaction or it's I don't get it at all.
	And I think my comment would be that those who don't get it at all are better off that way.
	We'll talk to Stan about that.
	I wonder if that's really true.
	for their own protection it might be alright again uh... we are going to go to the phone to a
	moment Stan?
	Right.
	Again, it's coming in about 50-50 right now.
	I asked the audience, do you get it?
	About half of them get it and are awed by it, and the other half are bored and don't get it at all.
	And, you know, it set me to thinking here at the top of the hour, it may well be that those who don't get it and don't understand it are not, and shouldn't, that They should drift off into watching whatever TV program they're watching or whatever and stay in their little world and shouldn't even try to grasp it because for them it would be dangerous, too dangerous.
	Is that a cruel way to put it?
	I guess you could say that is possible, but in terms of any individual, they may just need a different way to approach this.
	I am a very analytic person.
	I'm coming from a particular perspective.
	We are doing a particular thing in this discussion that may not be their gate for understanding.
	Another thing that's very important, people aren't the same throughout their lives.
	There are things that when we were children we could do that we can't do now and as children we couldn't do that we can do and can understand now.
	I've discovered in presenting this material that yes, there are some people who can't get it or whatever, but that in fact there's a kind of double take.
	We get calls a year and two later after I've made a presentation or people have seen the work where it's clicked.
	And it took that much digestion.
	For them to get it?
	For them to get it.
	I'm making some very strong statements here.
	Yes, I know.
	Some of them are speculative and people shouldn't, believe me.
	And others that I think we've confirmed are really outrageous.
	I'm saying that Hebrew, Greek and Arabic really are sacred languages.
	And that's not a matter of belief.
	It's because they're based on hand gestures which really do connect our conscious life and the physical world.
	Which is what our hand really does.
	And to say that at this late a date when there's been so much scholarship in the academic and religious communities
	for so many years and no one else seems to have said that, that's pretty
	startling.
	That's like Poe's prolonged letter.
	It's been in clear view all this time, hand, and yet no one's noticed it.
	So that's a shocking thing.
	No matter what the context is, that's an upsetting thing.
	People have to think about that a little, have to feel comfortable with it.
	I give the audience a break.
	It took me 20 years, almost 30 years now, to get on top of this.
	Maybe it takes some people more than an hour or so.
	Maybe it does.
	You were going to go to the pyramids.
	Can I get some context here?
	Sure.
	I just want to say one thing before you open up, and that is for years and years and years, Stan, I have felt drawn to Giza, drawn to the pyramids.
	And come hell or high water, I'm going.
	In October, as a matter of fact, I had a choice of many, many tours that I could go on this year.
	And I scratched them all out and said, I want to go to Egypt and I want to see the pyramids.
	And I desperately do.
	And I'm going to, one way or the other.
	In October, I'm going.
	There's something about the pyramids.
	I can't put my finger on it.
	I'm just a layman, but I know there's something there.
	There's something that relates.
	I've had discussions with many people about the pyramids.
	So, you tell me.
	Maybe we'll do it tonight.
	Yeah, maybe we'll do it.
	It says the Great Pyramid has been called the Bible in stone.
	This is something you sent me.
	So, set it up.
	Well, first, let's back up a little and give a little context here.
	We were talking before about safe and dangerous and all of that, and I was saying that the good guys and the bad guys have the same technology.
	My Jewish friends are going to be upset if I start talking about pyramids, and my friends who aren't Jewish are going to wonder, what does Pharaoh's religion have to do with Judaism?
	We are taught in the Bible and from history, assuming that Moses is a historical figure and Pharaoh is a historical figure, that Moses was raised in Egypt and was taught all of the technology, all of the magic, quote-unquote, of the Pharaonic court.
	And yes, Jewish tradition believes that some of that knowledge was brought to Egypt with Joseph, but we don't have to get into that.
	The technology, the knowledge base that Moses had was the same as the knowledge base of Pharaoh.
	But you know, if you examine the character of Moses and Pharaoh's archetypes, and you examine the character of that pre-Israel community and the pre-Egyptian community, and you look at the words used to describe them, and you use this model we've found that gives you operational meanings of words to give a sense of what those words imply, then you can feel the difference here.
	In the Bible, in the Hebrew Bible, Moses is described as the humblest of human beings.
	He is supposedly a person that has no ego at all, and that's what qualifies him for the high experiences that he's credited with having.
	Pharaoh literally represents pride.
	They both have the same knowledge base, but one of these people is humble in the face of the enormity of life, and the other says, I'm big and bad and I'm in charge here and I don't care about anybody else.
	Israel, if you look at the word, literally means to be upright or to wrestle with God, to struggle, because you're not perfect and don't know everything, with the transcendent.
	Mitzrayim, Egypt, means constriction, means running around with your head cut off, like a chicken with your head cut off.
	It means being, you know, the impression I get is like living in New York City, and I can say that because I've lived in New York City.
	This is the chaos of modern life, the spiritual constriction that we all experience in our lives today.
	That's Mitzrayim.
	Again, the technology is the same, but how we behave and how we use it and the quality of our character determines whether we are talking about the Abrahamic faiths, based on humility, or what we consider to be our understanding of Pharaoh's religion, which was based on pride.
	Now, from that context, we can study the Pyramid, and we can learn something about both the Pyramid and the Bible, and we don't have to be choosing between them.
	We already know the choice.
	It's not the technology of the Pyramid that was the problem.
	It was how Pharaoh used it.
	It wasn't the technology of the Tabernacle that made Moses great.
	It was how the people in Moses behaved towards the wonders in their midst, towards the knowledge, towards what they've been entrusted with.
	So, from that context, Then we can go back and look at the stories about the pyramid and the rest of it.
	Shall I continue on this, Andy?
	Yes, in other words, I want you to say, the Great Pyramid has been called the Bible in stone.
	That's good particular.
	But let me tell you how that is.
	Please.
	Alright.
	First, that's a traditional teaching.
	I don't remember where I first heard it, but I've read it in several sources.
	And some people take it in a simplistic sense.
	There was a lot of pyramidology.
	A while ago, when the pyramids were first being explored, Piazzi Smith and those original people that did very mystical studies and numerological stuff, they were literally looking for the Bible in the pyramid.
	And there are people who talk about the length of the passages as being prophetic in terms of the life of some of our religious leaders and things of that sort.
	That's not what I mean.
	What I mean is that the geometry, the structure, the meaning, the purpose of the pyramid is complementary to that in the Bible.
	When I first laid out the bead chain that lined up the letters in the beginning of the Hebrew text of Genesis, it laid out on a spiral form that had seven turns and eight axes of symmetry.
	Now if you're a mathematician, and I don't think most people listening are, you know something called the Argonne Pole Angle, which is a measure formula in mathematics.
	If you use the formula for the Argonne Pole Angle, and the radius that you're looking at is 7, and there are 8 poles, then the measure of that Argonne Pole, the pattern of genesis that I found, is the 8 through the 7.
	And if you take out your handy-dandy pocket calculator, you will discover that the 8 through the 7 is almost identically the tangent of the pyramid angle.
	Approximately 52 degrees.
	So that it turned out that when I drew the first verse of Genesis with all the letters lined up, like a paper doll where I put Tad A and Slot A and Tad B and Slot B, when I lined up all those letters, I ended up drawing the pyramid.
	No, I don't mean it.
	I just drew it in the shape of a pyramid.
	And mathematically, one of the ways to measure the quality of this kind of spiral cyclical pattern matched up with what we see physically in the pyramid.
	And that was a big surprise.
	I didn't expect that.
	Must have been a real wow moment.
	Now, this is not the strongest part of what I'm saying, because there are other possible explanations, and there are only a limited number of ways to make these patterns, and it might be that all of them are related to the Pyramid.
	So I don't want to make too much of this.
	But it was surprising, and it is one way in which I mean the Bible and the Pyramid may have a connection to each other.
	But that's not the deepest meaning.
	The deepest meaning is in terms of what we think is their function.
	And here's where we have to get pretty speculative, and what I'm going to say is based not only on my own work, but on speculation by others, although I wouldn't be relaying it if I didn't think it was worth considering.
	The pyramid is not only called the Bible in stone, but it's also said to have been made somehow by the use of levitation, which of course the scientific community thinks is foolish.
	And also, according to authors such as Elizabeth H., it was a chamber of initiation in the
	King's Chamber or the Khafre or whatever, whatever that might mean.
	We also have historical reports.
	The pyramid was only defaced when there was an earthquake in the Cairo region about six
	or seven hundred years ago.
	And when many of the mosques were destroyed, they used the available limestone casing blocks
	of the Great Pyramid to rebuild some of the mosques.
	And so that's how the coating got stripped off.
	But that's only, you know, several hundred years ago.
	We do have some historical references to that.
	And in fact, there were descriptions of the outer skin of the pyramid having had some sort of spiral pattern on it with seven bands in the form of the rainbow spiraling around it.
	Well, that again matches the description of the letter model I found in Genesis.
	It's got seven terms to it, and they spiral around.
	And there is a theorem in mathematics called the Seven Color Map Theorem that refers to these sorts of patterns, which could have been known in the ancient world.
	So there's correspondence there.
	But what about levitation and initiation?
	What's that referring to?
	Well, I know what levitation is.
	Or what it's supposed to be.
	Initiation sounds a lot like that which you would go through in what you have described as recited Bible codes.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	It looks like the technology is the same.
	It looks like the purpose here is, in the case of the pyramid, to preserve a physical record, perhaps even a device that could assist in this process.
	And it looks like we have a written record of the experience of the way it unfurls from the Western cultural perspective in the Abrahamic traditions.
	So, it looks like if we could understand the similarities, the overlaps, if we could reintegrate Egyptian technology into Israelite experience without defaming or debasing the spiritual tradition, then we might gain a good deal of insight that was available in the I'm going to tell you something, and maybe you can answer this for me, and probably you can't.
	I had a guest on recently who had just returned from Egypt.
	Just got back.
	And he brought with him some stones from the actual center of the pyramid.
	They're doing a dig.
	A secret dig.
	Maybe not now, Secret, from the King's Chamber down to the Queen's Chamber.
	Yes, I know.
	Oh, you know about that.
	Well, the gentleman who, and I wish I could think of his name right now, maybe you know him, who did the program and helped reveal all this, sent me a stone from the center of the pyramid.
	I have it.
	And I'm going to tell you something I've done now and maybe you can explain to me what it means.
	You know, a common everyday watch that you will put in the light and then take into a dark room will glow.
	After an hour or two, that glow, if not exposed to light, will begin to fade.
	Correct.
	I tried this, Stan.
	It's true.
	You can take a watch into a dark room, let it go ahead and begin to fade.
	Take this stone from the pyramid, and when you put it adjacent to the watch, it will begin glowing brighter than if you had had it outside in the sun.
	Well, be careful.
	This stone probably is emitting some sort of radiation, which is stimulating the phosphor to make the watch glow.
	I don't know.
	All I know is I was told to try that, and I tried it, and it worked.
	What kind of stone is this?
	Is this granite or limestone?
	It's limestone.
	It's limestone.
	It's not uncommon for deposits of limestone to have minor amounts of radioactivity associated
	with them.
	Totally freaked me out.
	I mean, I was told to try it and I did and I said, oh.
	Well, this potential, and again, it's unconfirmed as far as I'm concerned.
	I'm from Missouri, and intellectually, I've got to see it to believe it, but I'll take your word for it.
	I've heard this story before, by the way, so I have reason to believe you here.
	You do?
	Well, besides believing it, I've never heard this story.
	I don't need to be insulted.
	Stan, I've never heard it, and I have no reason to believe it, and I have high doubts about it.
	There was a report, I heard a story, this is a story, that there was an Egypt pyramid
	conference a number of years ago I believe down in the Virginia Beach area where one
	of the main speakers couldn't show at the last minute and they had a substitute come
	in and give an off the cuff report and that there were statements made to the effect that
	they had found chambers in the Great Pyramid that contained what I understood to be some
	form of sand, not limestone, that would be silicate, so it may be different, that was
	radioactive. And that the person reporting it didn't know if it was just mildly radioactive
	or very radioactive. If it was mildly radioactive, that's not so extraordinary. There is limestone
	that tends to be mildly radioactive. It's not serious or dangerous. It might be enough
	to make your watch light up.
	i can tell you this i've taken every other Substance that I can lay my hands on including, you know, I live out here in the desert rocks and everything I can try and nothing else has the effect.
	Watch this stone from the pyramids.
	Would you be surprised if I had a explanation for why it might be appropriate for there to be some sort of low-level radioactive material in the pyramid?
	I would love to know.
	Why?
	Well, you know how a gas laser works?
	No.
	No.
	Well, let me explain.
	All right.
	This is obviously going to take a little time, and we're at the bottom of the hour, so let's do it when we come back, all right?
	Stay right there.
	I haven't told the audience about this.
	I received The Rock about a week and a half ago, I believe, and I was told to try this, and I kind of chuckled and laughed a little bit and put a watch in the closet.
	When it faded, I went in and tried it.
	And it blew me away.
	I do have a rock from the center of the pyramid, and it really does do what I just told you it does.
	We will be back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I want it Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 8th, 1997.
	In a moment I'm going to read you two faxes that are absolutely representative of what
	I'm getting on Stan Tennant's presentation.
	It's fast for you.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	Stan Tenen is my guest.
	He has uncovered Bible codes in the original Aramaic text that when viewed, or even when deciphered, if understood, lead to an experience Known as the Paradise Experience.
	In other words, what Stan Tennant is saying is, that if you understand and go into meditation based on these codes and the geometric patterns produced by these codes, you will experience what's in the Bible.
	For example, in Genesis, creation, actually experience it yourself.
	I know I'm not up to it.
	And I doubt many people are out there, but that is what he's saying.
	And then I asked, well, do you get it?
	And here's a couple of typical responses, and I want Stan to hear them.
	Geometric paradigms embedded in stories of God drowning all children and babies in a global flood?
	An earth populated by a very incestuous family?
	Meaningless, equivocal BS, and he didn't put BS, he did the whole thing, not worthy of any Art Bell Show.
	Response 1, that's from Doc Barry in Phoenix.
	Or this, Dear Art, yes, I get it.
	I teach it.
	Not only do I get what he's saying, I agree, and I'm teaching the same thing.
	From a doctor, whose name I will not mention, will not mention.
	Or this, Dear Art, your guest is outstanding.
	I have searched for the truth my whole life, in my own way.
	And my conclusions this far are almost exactly what your guest is saying, and although this just scratches the surface of the whole picture, I'm excited to hear someone else has a similar view.
	The power he is talking about is available to anyone who has the insight and intelligence to learn, be their purpose good or bad, and your guest is wise not to openly say it is so with the social degenerates of society today.
	This would be a dangerous time in history.
	So, Sam, there you are.
	Two very different, or three very different responses to what you've been saying.
	Well, I'm having... The first time I presented this material to people who later became part of the Board of Directors of Meru Foundation, which we put together to support this, one of the people in the room stomped out in the middle, muttering, this is the work of the devil.
	I never came back.
	People are entitled to their opinions.
	I think the criticism is based on a misunderstanding of what I'm saying, but I understand that reaction.
	I don't know if the person in fact heard the whole program, so maybe they missed a few of the things that I said.
	That may well be.
	I'm not trying to criticize, defend, or promote the stories in the Bible, and the patterning that I'm talking about is not directly related to the stories that we all know, and either love or hate, depending on how you feel about the Bible.
	I'm saying that as a scientist, I examined the document, and I found woven into it, and I use the word woven because I think the text actually was woven, woven into it, patterns that I recognized.
	And I looked for an explanation for them, and the explanation I'm finding is pretty far-fetched if you haven't Looked into this for yourself.
	Obviously, it's far-fetched.
	If it weren't far-fetched, we'd all know about it already.
	And it is something I don't think people should believe.
	I think they should check out what I'm saying.
	On our website, there's actually a statement of the relationship of the three Abrahamic covenants, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, to something I call the car-passing trick.
	And the point I make is don't believe any of this unless you do the experiments for yourself.
	And these are not necessarily scary experiments any more than normal dreaming would be scary or normal daydreaming or fantasizing would be scary.
	Obviously, people can do crazy things in any context.
	But there are simple things you can do to demonstrate for yourself whether or not there is a basis for what I'm saying.
	Well, I haven't reached the heights of any of these things.
	I've done some of these simple experiments.
	Alright, give us an example.
	Well, the car passing trick, which I've discussed at length in other contexts, is based on an understanding of the relationship of the three Western covenants, whether you believe them or not.
	The Jewish covenant is basically based on the study of the Torah, of the Hebrew Bible.
	The Jewish tradition emphasizes learning, which if we wanted to be a little negative we could call it head tripping.
	If we wanted to be more positive we could talk about it being logical.
	The Christian covenant, I believe, I'm not insulting Christians to say, is based on passion and compassion and nurturing and nourishing and giving and working in the world.
	The Christian community isn't that intense on studying, certainly not the Hebrew Bible, and even the Christian Bible isn't always what the Christian community does.
	Christians are known for their passion and their compassion.
	Islam literally means to yield, to submit to Allah, to let go, to give up.
	When you have a clear understanding of what you want and are interested in, the Jewish covenant, when you back that up with hard work in the world, What the Easterners would call Dharma, I think.
	I may be using that wrong.
	And then after you put in all this clear work and planning, and all this hard work, you let go and yield to nature, or to life, or to God, depending on your beliefs, then things happen.
	Look, if you're house hunting, you get an idea of what kind of house you want, you search around like crazy for months and months, and at the point at which you give up, bingo, your house shows up.
	I think many people have had that experience.
	It's like looking for love.
	Yeah.
	You know, you look and you look and you look and you look and you finally say, I'm destined to be single without a soul, made all my life, and then boom, the minute you give up, there she is.
	It's also the principle of which anything is created in the world.
	Babies come into the world this way.
	First we know, we see, we intellectualize, we see our partner at a distance and we think,
	we decide we want a child.
	We fantasize about it.
	Then we have to live with our partner and that's work and passion and compassion.
	We have to literally make love and that making love process, which is called the petite mort,
	the little death, is in fact a giving up.
	And then when the child is ultimately born, we have to release that child into the world
	and let go of it.
	And so, the creative process, even in that most elemental of human experiences, is the same.
	It's based on, in this form of analysis, this isn't the only way you can analyze it, of course, these three conditions that all have to be present.
	You have to know what you're doing, you have to work hard at it, and you have to let go of it.
	I wrote up on the internet a little experiment you can do when you're driving along behind the guy that's driving too slowly, and there's no way to pass.
	And I describe in detail how you think about what you want, how you put in the appropriate effort, and how you let go.
	May I stop you for one second?
	Let me stop you and tell you what I think about in that situation.
	Dual mounted .50 caliber machine guns.
	And a button convenient on my steering wheel, which I can press, totally peppering the car in front of me and destroying it totally.
	This is not the kind of person who should reach out and try to have the experience you're talking about.
	Well, on the other hand, I bet you do it unconsciously every day in the things that you do do.
	And I bet that... Sometimes it's a rocket launcher, by the way.
	All right.
	Well, I'm not saying you have... This is not related to you being violent or non-violent.
	This is a technique you can experiment with to demonstrate for yourself whether following these stages really does something or this is really BS.
	Give me the righteous way.
	Well, I'm basically saying that you shouldn't believe me.
	That the test of these spiritual teachings is not whether granddaddy told daddy told you.
	The test is does it work in your life?
	Yes, yes.
	Alright, so there you are behind the slow guy.
	What should be done?
	Well, what you can do, and you can adapt this to your own circumstances, The first thing you do is you form in your mind clearly, without just being random and aggressive, that you really want to pass this guy.
	You notice that you're going slow, and you form a thought that it would be really nice if we could pass this guy.
	You look around for alternatives, and you obviously find that you can't pass, or if it's a cop, you follow it.
	You can't pull out the Tommy gun, right?
	Or you shouldn't.
	Anyway, so first you do the mental work.
	Then, you basically...
	Do the physical work.
	You follow this person.
	You don't try to blow them away.
	You don't try to cut around them.
	You actually put the effort in to drive safely behind them.
	Yes.
	And while you're doing this and while you're forming the thought in your mind that you would like to pass, you know how you position your mind?
	It's like when you're trying to get through a crowded hallway and you'll tap someone on the shoulder and it'll just yield a little enough for you to get squeezed by.
	Certainly.
	You know what I mean?
	It's that kind of thing.
	And then, while you're doing this, you allow yourself to be distracted, to give up on it, to say, okay, you know what, I'd really like to pass this guy, but in fact, like Castaneda recommends, you turn it into a controlled folly.
	I'm willing to follow this guy until hell freezes over, or until I get where we're going, whichever comes first, whether or not I can pass him.
	And I'm just going to give up on my request and let go of it.
	Sometimes we have to turn on the radio and get lost in what the person is saying.
	Maybe they're listening to us and doing it right now.
	And then at the moment your ego has dropped, the moment you've given up, let go, forgotten, you will notice, if this works for you, that something will come up and the obstacle will disappear.
	Either Farmer Brown will pull over or the road will widen and there will be a passing zone.
	Or something will happen that enables you to safely get past the obstacle.
	It happens at the very moment you really let go of your trying to do this anyway.
	You've dropped your ego and you'll know when it's going to work because you'll realize when you're faking it and you only think you've dropped your ego and you still want to get past the guy, damn it.
	And you'll also know and you'll notice when, in fact, you actually let go.
	You can't power trip this.
	You can't brag about it.
	You want to keep your ego out of it.
	You don't want to tell the guy next to you in the car what you're going to do because that's power tripping and that's ego building and that prevents you from dropping your will and your expectations.
	But if you do this in a gentle and humble way, if you pay attention, if you do it beyond the point at which you have any expectation that it's working... You're doing what Gandhi would do.
	At the very moment when you've really given up your expectation it will work, that's when it will manifest.
	I understand.
	That's what Gandhi would have done, huh?
	Well, I don't know Gandhi that well, but maybe.
	It's certainly consistent with most of the spiritual traditions that I've heard about.
	A totally non-violent approach to a confrontation.
	Also, may I point out, not based on belief or faith.
	I'm talking about running an experiment until it's settled to your personal satisfaction.
	I hear what you're saying.
	I don't know I could do it.
	It's fascinating.
	I'll bet you do it all the time.
	But your problem may be noticing it.
	And that's one way people... You know if you start noticing how the world is more interconnected...
	It's scary because you notice you have more responsibility than you'd like to have and that you're also more helpless than you'd like to be.
	Stan, it's just not true.
	I've got to tell you the truth.
	For example, tonight I have this little studio cam so the audience can see me while I do my program.
	It's turned off tonight.
	You know why it's turned off tonight?
	It's turned off because for the last 48 hours I have been having a battle with a computer.
	And Stan, I will either fix that computer, or I will break it beyond all recognition.
	But I will not sit there and give up on it, or in essence become Gandhi-like with respect to it.
	Either I'm going to beat it, or I'm going to destroy it.
	Okay, so you're not using this technique in this circumstance.
	I don't think you're doing it all the time.
	My room is a disaster, so I can't turn on the cameras.
	I mean, there's stuff all over the place here, and that's the way I am about things.
	I will keep coming at them until I get them or they get me.
	Okay, I don't want to tell you what you do.
	I would rather you paid attention to you and discovered what you do and told me.
	That would be a little more honest.
	Let's get back to the pyramid and the science stuff.
	Alright.
	I wanted to make that point because you were talking about this potentially radioactive
	stone.
	I said that there might be an explanation for that.
	I didn't say radioactive.
	I said that.
	I just said what I observed.
	I said potentially.
	We don't know.
	You told me you observed when you brought this stone that was excavated.
	Yes, sir.
	I mean, eerily so.
	Yes, sir.
	Near your fluorescent watch face, it glowed more than it would normally have glowed.
	Yes, sir.
	I mean, eerily so.
	I mean, so much glow that it actually caused some light around me to hit the walls.
	I mean, it was a little scary.
	Fortunately, it doesn't take a lot to make a watch crystal glow a lot, so it may not be a dangerous situation.
	I wouldn't go to sleep with it next to me, and I wouldn't lick it until it was checked with a Geiger counter.
	No problem.
	But other than that, my first hypothesis is it's probably mildly radioactive, and that's probably not terribly extraordinary, other than it may be deliberate.
	There is a reason why you would want to make a structure like the pyramid warm.
	It may even be one of the reasons you would pick Cairo as a location, because it's warm there.
	If the pyramid were actually, and I'm saying if here, if the pyramid were actually a device, then we could use certain basic scientific principles to figure out what kind of device it is.
	We know devices When you're making something useful and meaningful, the
	materials we choose and how we fashion them and the conditions in which we use them are important.
	You don't make an automobile block out of a soft material that melts at the temperature
	that gasoline burns.
	That's correct.
	All right?
	And you don't hone the outside of the carburetor.
	Even if you're a car nut, you merely polish it because that would be a gratuitous behavior.
	You need to hone the cylinders to get them that smooth.
	To make it look pretty, you don't need to hone the outside of the carburetor.
	So that, in fact, what you do and the precision with which you do it and the conditions under which you use it are very important.
	So if we want to understand the pyramid, we shouldn't just speculate wildly.
	We should set out a set of hypotheses, and then we should check them off and see what they lead us to.
	Well, the most important, most impressive thing about the pyramid is its size.
	So the first question to ask is, is there a reason, other than the purported vanity of the pharaoh, that it would need to be that size?
	And we should put that on the table.
	The second most obvious thing about the pyramid, and this is the most obvious thing that no one seems to have noticed, is its material.
	Most of the pyramid, now the chambers and passages are lined with granite, but the bulk of the pyramid, well over 95%, maybe over 99% of the pyramid, is limestone.
	And if we examine limestone carefully, we discover something truly astonishing, which no one seems to have paid any attention to.
	You know, one of the things that's most important in science is resonance.
	is when things are like other things and therefore can partake of them and interact with them.
	Yes.
	The pyramid is made of limestone.
	Limestone is predominantly calcium carbonate.
	The pyramid limestone is not that pure.
	The outer casing stones were much purer, but predominantly calcium carbonate.
	Calcium carbonate is a very interesting material.
	It's the most common mineral on the face of the earth after the silicates, after the granitic materials.
	All of the calcium carbonate on the surface of the planet, I believe this is true, maybe our listeners will correct me, is the result of the dissolving and recrystallizing of invertebrate skeletons.
	This is bone that's been dissolved or crushed and compacted and crystallized.
	And so it's the ash of life.
	The pyramid of calcium carbonate structure sits on a limestone outcropping That's right.
	And that limestone outcropping is part of the egg shell of limestone that surrounds the entire planet.
	And just like a real egg shell, it's pretty porous.
	And so we really have a kind of a Gaia egg here with this little pyramid sticking out at this particular location.
	So we have to ask ourselves, is that important too?
	And of course, we're going to find that it is.
	Well, the astonishing thing about calcium carbonate is it's got several forms.
	It's limestone.
	It's also mother-of-pearl.
	It's also chalk, if it's really crushed.
	If the crystals are bigger, it's like limestone, which has medium-sized crystals, not so pure.
	And if they're really pure, then we have calcite, Iceland spar, a completely clear mineral, crystal clear, birefringent.
	You look through it, you see a double image, used in the ancient and modern world for that extraordinary property.
	If you cross two pieces of calcite, it's just like crossing two polaroids.
	It gets dark at one angle and brighter at another.
	And anyone can see this.
	And you can find this stuff lying on the ground all over the world.
	And you can find it in Egypt.
	And calcium carbonate in its crystal form, isolin spar or calcite, cleaves in a regular sharp way.
	If you drop the crystal, it always breaks into the same shaped pieces, the same angles.
	And those angles are, in fact, the pyramid's most important angles.
	The pyramid is a marvel of the crystal of the material it's made of.
	And I don't think many people have noticed that, and that's very important.
	All right, Stan.
	When we come back, I would like to open the phone lines.
	There's plenty on the table here.
	Let's see how they react.
	All right?
	All right.
	All right.
	Coming up, we will go to the phones when we come back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	Welcome to the Coast to Coast AM Recap.
	This is a replay of the Coast to Coast AM Recap.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
	The material being presented this morning is something that you apparently either get and understand or reject and get angry at.
	That is what I'm concluding by reading what I'm getting from many of you out there.
	Back to Stan and your questions coming up.
	This should be very, very interesting.
	Very interesting.
	Back now to Stan Tennant who has a BS in in physics and has been researching Bible codes derived from ancient Aramaic that produce geometric shapes that induce a condition
	Which actually allows one to experience what is described in the Bible.
	Not to read it, not to have an understanding of what you read, but to actually experience it.
	That's what he is saying is contained in this woven tapestry of information in the coding of the Bible.
	And now we have begun to talk about the pyramids as well.
	And I'm going to open the phone lines, and so anything can happen.
	Stan, are you there?
	I'm here.
	All right.
	Anything can happen once we open the phone lines.
	So let's see what the audience has to say, all right?
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	And Stan, how are you?
	Fine.
	Where are you?
	I am calling from Cle Elum, Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	My question is, and let me preface this by saying, I've lived in the Middle East myself, and have visited the pyramids and the sinks, and was filled with a little bit of wonderment in that.
	But my question was, in the latest discoveries they've found on the sinks, and the relationship between the pyramids and the sinks, dating, etc., and materials as well, if there might be some links, materials in placement and so forth, Not so much for obviously the solar benefit of alignment but also astronomical outside our system and then also the biblical context of it having been studied that extensively pretty much most of my life as well.
	I think that there's a lot of things that we're discovering today that there are Well, I think what you're saying is basically correct.
	I don't know a lot about the Saints.
	I haven't done that myself.
	Christian and Judaism beliefs that are being confirmed with what's happening today with
	some of the mathematical explanations for them.
	Well, I think what you're saying is basically correct.
	I don't know a lot about the Sphinx.
	I haven't done that myself.
	I am very open to what's been suggested recently.
	I do in general like the work of Buzal and Hancock.
	Buzzall is much older than what they previously believed it was.
	I certainly think we should take what they're presenting seriously and check it out carefully.
	I am not at all satisfied with this traditional archaeologist's explanations and dates.
	That doesn't mean that others are right, but it does mean that there's plenty of room for improvement in our understanding here.
	And some of what I know tends to be consistent with what both Al and Hancock have presented.
	Also, we haven't talked about the sky connection to these codes in the Bible yet either.
	But there is a connection, and it's the same sort of connection as with the pyramids.
	All right.
	I would like to bring something up here, and then we'll go back to phones very quickly.
	And it has to do with Mars.
	We've got a surveyor on Mars right now, and there are some remarkable discoveries being made.
	For example, they're claiming that at one time Mars was covered in a great flood.
	We're talking about a red, dusty planet, with rocks everywhere, and what they're concluding is, at one time there was a great flood.
	Well, where the hell did all the water go?
	I mean, that's an incredible thing to contemplate.
	Three billion years ago there was a great flood.
	Mars was in a water world.
	And now there's no water.
	It's dusty and dry and red and has rocks and they're talking about volcanic activity and all kinds of things that are just utterly unimaginable to us.
	They're saying that the rocks that they're seeing there have a Complete resemblance, with the analysis they've done so far, to that which we have found on Earth, which were somehow blown off from Mars in some great catastrophic hit, that harbors some sort of microbial life.
	There is a great mystery there, and it's unfolding before our eyes, raising more questions than it is answering.
	And of course, we have these geometric shapes, and these Things at Cydonia that we don't understand and that we are presently not investigating.
	Do you see a connection there?
	Yeah, to some extent.
	I'm not a planetary physicist and I only know what I've been told by others.
	Right.
	But in fact, there is a direct connection between the geometry in the vicinity of the face on Mars and the geometry of the modeled human hand we found specified in the Bible.
	The model hand, when you make it properly, the fingertips, if you were to place your hand facing a table top with thumb and fingers down, ideally, based on this model, your fingers would come down at 19.5 degrees.
	19.5?
	19.5 approximately.
	I mean, you know, there's more decibel points there, more digits.
	That's that same marker angle.
	as has been proposed is the underlying principle of the area around the face on Mars, so-called.
	So it's not the face, per se, that convinces me.
	It's the hand on Mars that convinces me.
	And also, to be explicit, I found that that mathematical analysis very, very intriguing and very, very important.
	But the clincher for me is the fractal imagery photographs that are in Carlotto's book on Mars, which show that the face and some of the other objects in the area are quite anomalous when they're analyzed using fractal methods of analysis, which we've only recently developed.
	And so that combination of circumstances I find this is very, very intriguing and suggestive.
	I'm hoping that one of these NASA missions to Mars is going to actually go back and have a good look.
	Is it possible, this is a reach, but let me just open it up, that there was, whether it was water, there very well could have been life.
	Obviously the suggestion is there was life on Mars, intelligent at one time, what's there is too geometrically Similar to what's here to not suggest that there was intelligent life there at one time.
	It's certainly possible.
	Water is very important to life, as we know it.
	Yes, indeed.
	But then, you know, we've recently discovered life on Earth in places where we didn't think it was possible.
	We used to think that the sun was necessary because of energy and information considerations.
	We now know it's not.
	Thermal vents in deep sea can provide an equivalent source.
	No question about it.
	So that was totally unexpected.
	I'm very liberal on the idea that there is going to be life throughout the universe.
	I think the bigger question is how intelligent it is.
	I think it's almost inevitable.
	We've already found carbon molecules of various forms that are suggestive of life on all kinds of things that have hit our planet from outer space.
	It's just very plausible that some of these lifelike proteins are going to occur, and organic chemicals are going to occur, given how vast the universe is.
	But Stan, where I was going with this was, if there was life on Mars, if it did evolve to an intelligent level, is it not possible that these geometric patterns that we see were created by Mars equivalent to our pharaohs?
	Oh, sure.
	And I wouldn't get that culturally explicit, but yeah, absolutely.
	That this is, you know, there's intelligent life, and there's good likelihood they built what we're looking at.
	Absolutely.
	That there is something universal in what you have been talking about tonight.
	That's right.
	That's what I'm saying.
	This isn't a matter of believing in Judaism or Christianity or Islam.
	Or an Egyptian religion or anything like that.
	This is a matter of underlying patterns that permeate the universe, just like the number pi is universal throughout the universe.
	It's not dependent on any measurement, although that's how we first learned about it.
	It just is.
	It's an idealization that you find when you use mathematical methods to compare radiuses in the ideal to circumferences in the ideal.
	And you always, no matter where you are, no matter what your consciousness is, no matter what you believe, you're going to find that value of Pi in whatever number system.
	Absolutely makes sense.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I wanted to ask a couple questions.
	One was, when you were talking about the identification with God, This is what Carl Jung said, that an unmediated realization
	of God could be overwhelming to people.
	Yes, that appears to be true.
	And yes, this is kind of an empirical thing in the 20th century that he realized.
	The other thing I wanted to ask you was, do you have any opinion about whether the people
	who actually wrote the Bible did this deliberately and encoded that message into the Bible, or
	Or it was something like a John David Oates.
	Alright, alright, alright.
	That's very good.
	I think we get it.
	In other words, was this an intentional encoding?
	Or, I don't know whether you know about Mr. Oates who does reverse speech.
	And it seems to be... Reverse speech is fascinating.
	You just play something backwards and every few seconds there will appear this congruent sentence that appears to come from the unconscious which
	either is congruent, is always congruent with what's being said
	forward but either reveals it to be a lie or the truth
	so, did the people who write the bible know what they were doing or is this
	coding something that was probably not a conscious thing at the writing?
	well, I don't know if there's a simple answer but let me give you an analogy
	is Is the number pi written by our mathematicians, or is it intrinsic to be discovered in the world?
	Obviously, it's discovered, but it's also, we choose the number system, we choose to do the calculations, and we choose to interpret them.
	My understanding of the experience of Moses Is that because of his great humility, his ego dropped out and he was able to experience a kind of unification of the conscious and the physical world.
	That unfurled through him in a way that he could express in Hebrew letters that represented the path of the feelings that he received and experienced.
	What the sequence of letters in the Hebrew Bible represents is literally, as best can be recorded, the experience of Moses in detecting this pattern and in receiving it from, well, we can say God, you don't have to believe in God, wherever it manifested from.
	We could come from nature like Pi does.
	You don't have to believe in God to discover Pi.
	I prefer to believe the stories as we're given them.
	But that's my choice. I can't prove they really happened.
	I do know that honorable people wrote the stories, so I believe that they chose things to say that they
	believed to be literally true.
	But that's not really dependent on the experience that Moses had directly.
	Moses, I think, wrote down a sequence of Hebrew letters which are pretty much analogous to the process a
	mathematician uses when they calculate and write down the sequence of digits
	in pi.
	That Moses was recording something intrinsic to the relationship between consciousness and physicality.
	And that that's what the Bible at the letter level, the sequence of Hebrew letters, actually represents.
	And you know, there's a possible proof or confirmation of this.
	If I'm right, then these Bible codes which consist of these equal
	interval letter skip patterns which I'm saying appear to mean that the text is woven of
	these patterns so that these equal skips are like looking at stripes on a
	Navajo rug that these actual patterns are patterns that exist in
	nature now the Jewish tradition teaches that the Torah is the
	template of creation and that God, in a sense, looks through the Torah and
	projects the world.
	Well, we don't have to believe that or disbelieve that to test it.
	If we can look through the Torah and see the world, then that confirms the teaching.
	Well, what could we see?
	It appears that these woven patterns are like basket weaving, like wreaths.
	Very similar to the sorts of maps that are woven by Polynesians and Micronesians to navigate using the tides and using the sky, the heavens.
	We know that the ancient Egyptians, we know that the Israelite traditions, we know that the Babylonians and many of the other ancient people had excellent calendars.
	They observed the heavens.
	A lot of the pyramid archaeology research that's being done now is also focused on the observation of the heavens.
	When you attempt to draw These epicyclic patterns that the planets and the constellations and the stars appear to make in the sky, they look for all intents and purposes like basket weaving.
	I'm saying that as part of what we're discovering is woven into the Torah text is basket weaving that represents the patterns on the temples of the heavens.
	And that we can project that same pattern onto the temple of our mind In principle, there's no difference between inside and outside.
	We have no skin and we are experiencing an ego death experience, a meditational or prophetic state.
	That this is not mysticism.
	This is a neurophysiological reality that can be tested.
	That this isn't some theory that I'm making up.
	We can literally look at the woven patterns in the Torah text which exists and compare them to patterns in the heavens and see if they're the same.
	And we can flesh out these ideas, to the extent that they're true, and refine them, and learn a good deal about how the ancients viewed the world, and what they were really recording, in what we call the Bible.
	Alright, when we get back, I want to ask you, if you were in a debate with Mr. Gozeman, who wrote the Bible Codes, Would it be a debate of process, or what form would the debate take?
	That's what I'm going to ask when we get back.
	And back we will be in a few moments, and we'll really be hard into the phone.
	So hang in there, everybody.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert hall.
	The concert hall is located in the San Francisco Bay Area.
	Have you ever noticed that music has a lot of the same properties?
	Music is mathematical, without question.
	Music can produce an altered state, without question.
	Now, it's a weak analogy to what we've been discussing, but I think it is analogous.
	I'll ask about that in a minute.
	my guest is stan tenen and we're talking about bible codes and more
	alright back now to the uh... telephones and uh...
	Stan, are you there?
	I am here.
	All right.
	I promised people active phone lines, so we've got to do it.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	My name is Janie, and I live in Fort Myers, Florida.
	Hi, Janie.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	I've been walking down the same road that Dan has walked and run into some interesting information that I wanted to share.
	Another gentleman was working on Bible codes and wrote a book called The Signature of God.
	I don't know if you've heard of that one.
	I've read the title.
	I haven't seen it.
	Okay.
	He was using 22 space intervals and coming up with sentences such as,
	Yeshua is my name, Yeshua is gift, and I don't have the book here,
	or I could give you some other ones, but he also used the 22 interval spacing
	to determine some of the prophetic things such as Hitler, the Third Reich.
	Okay, that's Straussman's work you're talking about.
	Yeah, the Third Reich was mentioned in there.
	Yeah, that's basically, that's the part of this that is not valid.
	The codes that have been detected statistically are valid, but the interpretations about Hitler and Yeshua and Joe Camel and Buddha, all that's been done to.
	Um, are not valid.
	Um, there are sound technical reasons why that's true.
	I understand.
	I asked this and didn't get back to it.
	If I were to have Mr. Dozen on the program with you and there would be an ensuing debate about his interpretation of the coding in yours, what form would that take?
	Well, I would spend on three pieces of information.
	First thing I would do, and I just pulled this out of my bookshelf while we were on commercial break here, and I know not everyone has a statistical reference library, but I happen to have a few books.
	This is from Reasoning About Luck by V. A. Ambedkar, published by Cambridge University Press.
	It's a recent publication.
	It's a scholarly publication by a quality statistician.
	On page 9, he says, quote, It's worth making the point that the concept of probability makes sense only when there is some understanding or working hypothesis about what is going on.
	What that means is that although the numerical results that the statisticians have obtained are correct, their meaning is completely undecidable unless and until there's a working hypothesis.
	And that's what's been missing.
	And the benefit of a working hypothesis of a model is that it enables you to sort the real, meaningful results you have from results that you know you can expect to occur by virtue of accident alone.
	You can't tell the difference between a coincidence or an accident and a real data point without a model.
	And that's the problem.
	The Hitler, Yeshua, Rabbi name, because I'm not trying to just be negative here.
	These shorter codes that say Rabin, assassin, will assassinate, are not legitimate because they fail the basic principle of probability theory.
	There is no working hypothesis.
	That's the first leg I'd stand on, and I think any statistician would have to back me up on that, including the people who did the work.
	Well, if I can get Mr. Drozdan on, would you be interested in such a debate?
	Oh, absolutely.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Stephen in Victoria.
	Victoria, B.C., all right.
	Yeah.
	First of all, Art, that piece of rock that you received from the pyramid, how close to your computer and your cameras did you have it?
	Not close enough.
	Well, that's worth a try.
	You might want to remove it from the room or something.
	It's not the room.
	Okay.
	I was just going to make a slight, I guess it's probably a major comparison.
	Most religions, when people are trying to find God, they're either in prayer, or if they can't find God, then they're asking for God, so their hands are outstretched, so it's fairly...
	Symbolic that it would come back to the hands themselves.
	And with regards to the pyramid, it's probably something that God had created and left there as a testament.
	And the Egyptians in their evolution and everything else probably moved into it at some point in time.
	They will probably find at some point in time that there will probably be a connection between
	Moses and the Pharaohs and something to do with the golden calf that might actually be
	hidden somewhere in the Great Pyramid itself.
	I know people who hold beliefs like that and everyone really has a right to their beliefs
	and to work through them.
	I try not to pay a lot of attention to traditional teachings at the word level.
	I've been trying to do, in spite of my personal beliefs, an analysis of the physics of what I see, and in the case of the Bible text, the sequences of letters.
	I heard the story that you've just told us from others.
	I think that it's important that you work through what you believe to be true, but it's not something that I can focus on.
	Yeah.
	I think that we are the agent.
	I'm an Orthodox Jew, so I can say assuming there is a God, but I don't think you have to believe that.
	I'm saying assuming there's a God.
	That we're the agents by which God works.
	That if God made the pyramids, he used us to do it.
	Because I don't see any need for a miracle there.
	We didn't get into the physics that explains some of the legends about meditation and initiation, but in fact there are rational explanations for the alleged properties of the pyramid that are much more spiritually sound than simply jumping to a miracle.
	That's part of the problem with the Bible Code, jumping to this prophetic level and jumping over the empowering level of real understanding.
	Alright, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Yes, you want me now?
	That's you.
	Yeah, this is Rebecca in San Diego.
	Hi.
	And Mr. Tennant, I just want to say that I deeply, deeply love you, love what you're doing, and you may not consider yourself much of a saint, but I I consider you a spiritual giant.
	You know, you're not a Pharisee, but let's face it, the Pharisees were the ones that crucified Christ.
	They missed it all together.
	The question I have is, I've always had a deep desire in my heart, being a Christian, to get a pure translation of the Bible, and I've been told that I've never quite trusted the translations that I'm reading.
	I've been told that there's been changes made like, this is like a crude example, but when it was originally written, it was written something like, my stomach would praise the Lord.
	And when it was translated, it would be translated something like, my soul would praise the Lord, or they changed what was originally said.
	And I was wondering if your works are going to help to get back to the original translation of the Bible.
	Well, yes, actually, if these theories that we're working with check out, then one of
	the things we've discovered by taking an analytic scientific approach is that we've actually
	found a way of rationally assigning meanings to each of the Hebrew letters.
	And we've discovered that the meanings we found by this rational analytic process actually
	match up with the traditional letter name meanings for the letters.
	That the benefit of our operational meanings is that you could actually add them together
	to figure out what the root word means.
	So that, for instance, the word that we translate now as Sabbath, which we know is, in a colloquial
	sense, means the seventh day of the week.
	Right.
	The actual Hebrew letters say, to sit within yourself.
	Beautiful!
	Which implies meditation.
	Oh, that's beautiful!
	And that's also why Jews are taught, in my opinion, this isn't a rabbinic teaching, this is from my work, that's why I believe Jewish tradition teaches that you don't carry outside of the home on the Sabbath.
	You sit within yourself.
	You don't take outside and do work.
	And so, if you go to the letter level, and read it letter by letter, You can get a more accurate sense of the meaning.
	In terms of translations of the Hebrew Bible, I think your best way to proceed would be to Get as many different translations as you can find and do your own comparison.
	Right.
	I don't think that one can express the full meaning of the Hebrew in any one English translation.
	That's true of any great work.
	It's not just true of the Bible.
	You can't translate Shakespeare very well into French unambiguously.
	I'm sure there's some beautiful translations, but I'm sure they're not all the same.
	So I think that if you want to get a deeper sense of what the actual Bible is saying and
	get away from some of the mythological interpretations that our religious traditions have shaded
	there, maybe, certainly inadvertently, but inevitably, then get a Hebrew version, get
	a Catholic version, get a Christian version, even if you can find, get a Muslim version.
	And read an older version and a more recent one, read a critical edition, and read a very
	plainly written one.
	And trust your own work to lead you where you need to go.
	Right.
	Don't trust me or experts.
	I'm not a guru.
	When you're listening to another person, even if they're a saint, you're just listening to another human being.
	When you listen to your heart, honestly, then you might be listening to God.
	You got it.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	And good morning.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Hi.
	Yes, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	I love your show.
	This is Jeff from Gulfport, Mississippi.
	Yes, sir.
	Mr. Tannin, is that right?
	Tannin?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I was real interested in especially your earlier show that you had, what, about a month ago or whenever?
	Yeah, just a month ago.
	Anyway, I started fiddling with, you know, I was interested in the concept so I started fiddling with the Hebrew a little bit.
	Anyway, I was using a sequence of seven.
	I don't know if I can repeat it throughout the text.
	A 7 and a 7 base progressing to a 12 base, but I was using 7 in each base.
	Anyway I uncovered a complete sentence, but I've only done one.
	I don't know if I can repeat it throughout the text.
	I just started at the beginning, and in the beginning God created heaven.
	But anyway, using that.
	that base that came out, man and woman through sloth and desire, alas, will perish.
	It's kind of weird but that's the way it came out.
	I was wondering, have you tried any progressive bases like that?
	Well, actually yes and no.
	I haven't tried anything like that and I wouldn't even know how to evaluate how technically
	accurate it would be to do such a thing.
	What I've tried to do is to go back to technology and understanding that we know is available
	several thousand years ago.
	And so I'm basically trying to limit myself to the understanding of the calendar and of weaving and embroidering and brocading and working with wood and the simple cooking and household skills and farming skills that we know people had.
	Because from that context, I can be reasonably sure I'm not making up something.
	The tools I'm using and the tools they were using are similar and I'm digging in similar
	earth.
	I'm likely to be on the right track.
	If I use more modern ideas it's hard for me to understand if they're appropriate.
	The reason I used a 7 base and progressed it to 12 was because of the scribes during
	the time of the writing.
	So I thought that would be an interesting way to do it.
	Well I don't know anything about that.
	I guess I feel like our audience feels, and I'm not really following completely what you were saying, so I guess we're all in that same boat.
	I would say, Jeff, that maybe you want to go to some local college and take it to some math professor and have him look over what you did.
	And maybe they can give you some clues as to whether it's a meaningful thing to do and what it might mean.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Stan Tennant.
	Good morning.
	My name is John from Columbus, Ohio.
	Yes, sir.
	And I was wondering if any of your research goes back to the Kabbalah.
	Yes.
	I didn't start with any interest in the Kabbalah.
	I've never even heard the term when I started.
	But what's turned out is that these models that we found by lining up the letters in the Hebrew text of Genesis actually make sense of Kabbalistic texts that are now in dispute, or only translated as mythology or poetry.
	Okay.
	I believe there's a passage that says that Moses knew the ways of God, but Israel saw the acts.
	In other words, like, Moses knew how to do it, and Israel just saw it done.
	There's some truth to that.
	The context of the situation at Mount Sinai is that Moses and the people were in a state of synesthesia, where it's actually said that they heard the images and saw the sounds.
	And that's indicative of a psychological state of meditation, and people have reported that.
	in various different spiritual experiences in a wide range of traditions.
	Alright, go right ahead.
	Can I do that?
	Yes, do it now.
	Okay, well, the best and easiest way is if you can get up on the internet, we have a website.
	It's the normal prefixes, and then www.meru, M-E-R-U, Mary Edward Ray Gunn Upside, dot org, O-R-G, we're a non-profit, so we get an org designation.
	Um, and you can write to us for introductory information on our work, which is not about pyramids and is mostly about the alphabet and the text of Genesis.
	Sure.
	We'll send you an introductory packet.
	We're Meru Foundation, M-E-R-U, PO Box 503, 503, and that's in Sharon, S-H-A-R-O-N, Sharon, Massachusetts, Massachusetts is M-A, and the zip is 02067.
	Alright, is there any phone number?
	If people want to order our material as listed on the website, or want a free number that can be relayed to us for information, you can dial 888-422-NERU.
	Why don't you just give me the numbers?
	Do you know the numbers?
	Of what?
	888-422 and then what are the rest of the numbers?
	Gee, I don't have them.
	I just learned it that way myself.
	It would be 6-3-7-8.
	I got that right off my phone.
	I learned something in doing commercials and giving out numbers.
	Some people respond well to the uh... the letters
	uh... and other people don't respond at all well to them and so if you're going
	to do that sort of thing your best off giving up both it would be a eight eight
	eight four two two
	six three seven eight correct i believe that's correct
	seven and he argues a three-point use the word of the best way i
	could remember I understand.
	Better to look at the website or drop us a line.
	Also, let me say, we were enormously pleased with the response we got from the last show.
	We sent out about 500 packets.
	Some of them went out later.
	We are a nonprofit, so we use nonprofit bulk mail.
	But it still costs a couple thousand dollars and we really are a non-profit.
	So if people can help us out a little bit, we'd greatly appreciate it.
	We'd like to provide the material and we will provide it.
	But if any of you are in a reasonably well-off state and are feeling generous, We could sure use your help, and we'd appreciate it.
	Well, it's incredible work you're doing, Stan.
	Absolutely incredible.
	And I go into a deep, long period of thought every time I have a conversation with you, and tonight has been no exception.
	So I want to thank you for being with us, and we will have you back yet again, no doubt, because as you mentioned, the audience reacted en masse.
	Uh, I'm sure we'll get that again.
	Well, I'd really be pleased, and there's a lot more that we didn't get to that we promised, so let's do it as soon as you'd like.
	That's why there's always a next time.
	Stan Tennant, thank you.
	Thank you, too.
	Good night.
	Alright, that's it, folks.
	That's all there is tonight.
	And we will be back tomorrow evening.
	It's going to be a very, very interesting week.
	Tomorrow evening, the Cassini mission with Carl Grossman.
	Wait till you hear about that.
	Coming up this Friday night, Saturday morning, Father Malachi Martin, for those of you that have been looking forward to another appearance.
	That'll be Friday night, Saturday morning, and there may be yet more to come.
	So, as the old expression goes, stay tuned.
	Same place, same time, same station.

▲