Stan Tenen, Meru Foundation’s director, challenges conventional Bible code theories by tracing 1968-discovered Hebrew letter patterns—unrelated to Michael Drosnan’s statistical methods—as sacred geometry tied to Judaism’s Tikkun and neurophysiological states like synesthesia. His Aramaic-based research links Genesis to the Great Pyramid’s 52-degree angles and Mars’ anomalies, framing these as universal, empirically testable structures rather than cultural myths. Tenen warns against misuse by ego-driven individuals, emphasizing humility in decoding "intrinsic" patterns like pi, while Jeff’s seven-to-twelve bass experiment hints at broader, unvalidated alignment techniques. Art Bell highlights Stan’s return due to audience demand, segueing into upcoming deep dives on Cassini and Father Malachi Martin’s revelations. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening or good morning as the case may be, dependent on your time zone.
All these prolific time zones actually stretching from the Hawaiian and Eastern Island chains in the west all the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
It is close to a.m.
I'm on top of the whatever time of day it is to you.
Great to be here coming up.
We're going to be talking about Bible codes and a lot more.
So standby, it's going to be a standby.
It's going to be a very interesting evening, I can assure you.
I have got the distinct pleasure of welcoming KFYO AM in Lubbock, Texas.
There's 790 on the dial in Lubbock, Texas, and welcome aboard.
Glad to be back in Lubbock.
Also, WFMN in Jackson, Mississippi.
And I guess they're a big one down there.
25,000 watts heard throughout the regional area.
WFMN, FM, beginning tonight, beginning now.
Glad to have you aboard.
Also, welcoming WTKF.
They would be at 107.3 on the dial in Newport, North Carolina.
Another big one, 25,000 watts, probably heard all over the place.
All over the place in North Carolina, that portion of North Carolina.
So welcome aboard to all of those stations.
Now, we're going to be talking about codes in the Bible here in a moment.
Stan Tennen is the Director of Research for the Meru Foundation of Sharon, Massachusetts.
He has a B.S. in Physics, 1963 from the New York Polytechnic Institute.
Mr. Tennon has designed and produced optical and electronic equipment for doctors and surgeons.
He holds several patents in his own right.
In 1968, while examining the Hebrew text of Genesis, Mr. Tennon noticed what appeared to be a pattern in the arrangement of the letters.
This observation, which prompted 30 years of research into the history and mythology of the text, has led to a meaningful understanding of traditional teachings in a modern context.
Now, many of you will be familiar with the work of Michael Droznan, Droznan, I believe it is, who wrote the Bible Codes.
And Mr. Droznan's take on the Bible codes is that they relate a prophecy, that they tell us about things to come.
And I think that Stan Tennon's explanation of what he has found is far more elegant in every way you can imagine.
Well, actually, our situation was somewhat different.
I don't know Michael Drosnan, but my understanding is that he's a journalist.
He's a reporter.
And that what he is reporting on are published works and some unpublished works by statisticians, mostly in Israel now, some of whom were originally at UCLA a few years ago.
I remember reading some of the pre-publication papers that were submitted to statistical science on the codes at the office of a friend of mine at UC Berkeley about maybe five or six years ago now.
And so there's been a lot of time to think about this.
But this is modern work.
This was done statistically using computers in the last 10 or 15 years at most.
In fact, there was other work done much earlier by a Rabbi Weissmundle around the turn of the century.
Obviously, he didn't have computers.
But when I started my work, I didn't know about Rabbi Weissmundle at all, and the statistical codes in the Bible and the Torah hadn't, that work hadn't been done yet either.
My approach to this was completely separate and was a kind of a mystery tale, an adventure, because I really didn't have any idea where it was going to lead when I first noticed these patterns simply by looking at the text in 1968.
The statistical work is through the five books of Moses, and one of the astonishing things about that work is that the patterns that are statistically most robust are found to be distributed through all five books, which is something that's very disturbing to the academic Bible scholars who believe that the five books of Moses were actually composed by humans over about a thousand-year period.
So finding codes in letter sequences that extends through all five books would seem to be impossible from an academic scholarship point of view, which means that they have a different explanation than the explanation of the religious scholars.
My explanation is a third explanation which seems to resolve the two in an unexpected way.
First, the Bible we have in English is a translation of one form or another.
The most common in the United States is the so-called King James Translation, which is basically very similar to the others.
There are minor differences.
The official Hebrew translation is a little different than the King James.
The Catholic is a little different than the Protestant versions.
But these are in English.
The original text of the Hebrew Bible is not written in English.
It's written in Hebrew.
And Hebrew has a different number of letters in the alphabet, and obviously the words are spelled differently than in English.
And what most people don't know about the Hebrew Bible is that both scholars, academic and religious scholars, agree that the oldest versions of the Hebrew Bible, which none exist now, but nevertheless this is understood, the text wasn't broken up into words.
It was literally a sequence of Hebrew letters.
And even more interestingly, Hebrew doesn't use vowels as letters normally, so that you literally can't even read the text unless you know where to divide it up into words and unless you know how it's properly vowelized.
And then you can read words that you can translate and that you can assemble into sentences and verses, and that leads to the English translation that we all know and love.
And there's absolutely every reason to believe that the sages and scholars who worked on these texts, worked on these translations, did the absolute best job they could.
But it's necessary to understand that there is a very ancient teaching about the Hebrew Bible, which is the source of all of this, that very few non-Jews, and even not very many Jews, really know about.
I can probably dig up a quotation here directly for you if someone calls in and really wants it.
But there's a Kabbalistic teaching that the very worst tragedy that ever occurred in Judaism was not the golden calf, which everyone would think that was the worst thing that you could do, but the rabbis actually taught that it was the translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek, the Septuagint translation, the original translation from Hebrew into a modern language, that was the worst tragedy.
Why do they say that?
Because they said the original Hebrew wasn't just a narrative story.
It also included patterns in the sequences of letters, which when you make a translation are lost.
And the tragedy was that the Hebrew Bible became known only as a narrative story.
Now, I'm not disputing the narrative story.
That's not an issue here.
But in fact, the original teachings are that it was more than that.
The other patterns, the ones that Mr. Josden and many other people have gotten very excited about, are not these patterns.
What are they?
They are patterns that were also discovered statistically, but they are of much lower statistical reliability because it's not really known what proper statistical test to make.
All of statistical science is based on having a model.
If you open up any introductory book on statistics, the first thing the author will say in the introduction, in the preface, in the first chapter is, statistics is a wonderful science, but let's not forget we can't rely on statistical discoveries unless we have a model that helps to explain the context for the discovery.
Now, that's the missing piece.
Without a context, we can't sort gratuitous, fortuitous, accidental, coincidental codes from really important ones.
My question then was, how does Michael Drosnan come up with Bible codes which seem to predict future events, prophecy, and you come up with Bible codes that reach an entirely different conclusion?
In other words, if there is a statistical reality.
No, let me use an example that I think the majority of people listening will be familiar with.
This is not from Jewish tradition, but it's based on Jewish tradition and it's Christian teaching.
The idea is that the Torah, if I can use it in this context, is not a fish of prophecy.
It's a fishing pole of prophecy.
It's not that they wrote down explicit prophecies.
People mistake this.
It's not a book like Mostradamas that's telling us explicitly what's going to happen on a particular date in the future.
That's a fish.
Instead, my theory is that the text is woven as a kind of exercise that a person can do when they read the text, and that that leads them to a state of consciousness that can enable them, possibly, if they're a sage, if they're appropriately saintly, that can lead them to a state of prophecy, possibly.
Now, I don't even know if such a thing really can happen, but there's a big difference between a list of prophecies that are a bunch of fish piled up and a method by which appropriately educated and caring and saintly people could achieve the level of knowledge of some of the sages and prophets of Judaism and later.
To cut it short, if I can recall properly, in the last program, there was an aha moment, which came in the second hour, in which you talked about geometric patterns which would enable a person to, in effect, and I'm going to be simplistic here, but enter an altered state, and for example, with respect to Genesis, literally experience creation.
Let's tell the story, because people actually, we got an enormous response to that show, close to 500 inquiries, which I'm really quite overwhelmed with.
Can I tell a little more detail about this experience that's known in the Talmudic tradition, which most people don't know about?
There's a famous story about Rabbi Akiba.
Now, Rabbi Akiba was a great sage.
He was one of the people attributed as one of the people that we believe wrote down some of the Kabbalistic, some of the more so-called mystical texts in Judaism, the Sefer Yitzhirah, for instance.
He was known to be an expert on the alphabet.
He's mentioned in the Tsalman.
He lived less than a century after the founder of Christianity and Ben Hole's circle.
So it's in the same period in the same cultural context, actually.
He is said to have gone, had done a special meditation.
Now, first let's ask ourselves, where would an Orthodox rabbi find a meditation that they would dare to do?
Obviously only looking into traditional texts.
They weren't going to do something they made up themselves.
There's a lot of teachings that you shouldn't do that.
You bet.
So we have to assume Rabbi Akiba looked into the Torah and used his knowledge of the alphabet and somehow was able to do this so-called pardise, which is the root of our word paradise.
It refers to the Garden of Eden, the pardees meditation.
And the story goes that Rabbi Akiba and three companions who were essentially as qualified as he was, great sages, endeavored to do this pardise meditation.
And the experience was so overwhelming that the first person that attempted this didn't come out of the meditation.
They died in the meditation.
They were lost in paradise, never came back.
The second person was a little more grounded, and they made it back, but they were so overwhelmed by what they saw and experienced in this high state of consciousness that they became kind of a space case, we call them today.
They were intoxicated with the experience.
They were overwhelmed by it.
They were not rational anymore.
The third companion came back okay, but he was so shaken, his name is Aker, I believe, which means the other.
He was so shaken that he lost his religious faith entirely and only came back with his rational mind intact.
In fact, because his logic and his knowledge were still so good, he's actually still quoted in the Talmud, even though he's no longer considered to be a religious Jew.
Stan, can you explain to me, can I stop you and ask you what you could imagine the experience would be, the paradise experience, or the experience of Genesis or the understanding of all of creation that would cause you to lose your faith?
Well, it's sort of like having maybe a bad answer trip, to use a modern metaphor, where a person comes back so shaken that it's not that they lose their faith, they can't face it anymore.
They're in a state of they're literally overwhelmed emotionally and become cold emotionally because they can't deal with it.
Well, but it would be, you would imagine, no matter how shocking, it would be confirmation of everything that we all want to know about.
Confirmation of life after death, confirmation of what's in the Bible in Genesis, confirmation of so many things that it's hard to imagine it could turn out to be a negative, particularly to the degree that you would lose your faith, that only it would reinforce your faith.
I wonder if you can understand the profound nature of what we're talking about.
I wonder how many of you remember interviews done long, long ago now with many very famous prophets.
I wonder if any of you recall that, for example, Gordon Michael Scallion, with regard to his prophecy, claimed that prior to acquiring the power that he got, he saw an array of geometric patterns.
Do any of you recall that?
If not, know it now.
One of the great prophets, I believe, modern day, is Gordon Michael Scallion.
And he told his story, weaved his tale, that's for you, Stan, very powerfully.
And one of the things he said with regard to the condition that allowed him to acquire his prophecy was the vision of geometric patterns that appeared to him.
And then he began to acquire the power.
What Stan Tennon is talking about is geometric patterns as well, leading to a state that one can reach called Panday's meditation.
We'll talk more about that in a moment.
If it seems confusing to you, stick with this and we'll try and make it clear.
is finally all clearing up for me.
Back now to Stan Tennant.
Stan?
Hi.
As you heard me mention on the air, one of the guys that I consider to be the real McCoy is Gordon Michael Scallion.
And prior to his acquiring, he used to describe his ability to do prophecy as seeing three TV screens.
It was just the analogy he used so that the audience could understand it.
One would be brighter and colorful, and the other two faded and less likely, indicating there is nothing locked in stone, but the most likely prophecy was the brightest picture that he would see.
But before he acquired this ability to prophesize, he had an experience where he just about died, and he was in the hospital and saw this array, this incredible array of geometric patterns.
That's exactly what he said.
And it sort of resonated when you talked about geometric patterns, leading to this, was it Panday's meditation?
And all of a sudden that clicked with me, and I wonder if he entered that same sort of meditative state.
Of course, there's no way to know, but I'm just relating that to you, that he went out of his way to be very specific about this incredible array of geometric shapes that he saw.
I have no knowledge of Gordon Michael Scallion's work.
It's not something that I've studied, so I can't say anything explicit.
But in fact, you're making an excellent point.
It's not just Gordon Michael Scallion, but ordinary mathematical researchers have reported that if you turn over in your mind geometric forms, you sometimes have an unusual experience.
There are some hyperdimensional drawings of stereograms, hyper-stereograms, in a book by Bristol called Hypergraphics, I believe, that as I remember, some of the researchers described as it was causing in themselves unusual experiences.
But you know, there's a very big difference, and Judaism makes a good point of this, and I think Christianity is one too, too, between the particular experience of a talented individual, such as maybe Gordon Michael Scallion is, and a tradition that can be passed on from generation to generation that codifies a particular meditation that has a particular And safe result within the context of the tradition.
Well, is it not possible, Stan, that Stan Tannen might make his way to this particular Pardes meditation in a very specific mathematical way, and somebody else might, in effect, stumble onto what...
The key, though, is that if you want, let's say, and this is part of the discussion that I have when I'm trying to explain to people what it is I think I found here.
Because after all, what I've come upon, which we haven't discussed this evening yet, is a means of understanding the source of the Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic alphabets.
And the question becomes, well, why do you create an alphabet?
Why do you write things down, and how do you do that?
Well, you do that because you want to pass something on explicit.
Well, if you're talking about a spiritual tradition as opposed to a talented individual, then you have to record somehow the exercise that leads to the experience.
And the question is, can you do that in words?
No, you really can't.
Most people who've had these extraordinary experiences say that they're ineffable, that they're not describable in words.
So you have to create a kind of notation, not that describes the experience, but that's kind of like Arthur Murray teaching people to dance the waltz by changing footprints on the ballroom floor.
Well, that's what we think is going on here, that in fact, like what happens spontaneously to certain talented individuals, there is a long tradition, a Torah tradition, later the Christian Bible, later the Quran, and other groups that are related to these two, that had explicit, they've charted out a kind of science of consciousness.
You know, when I was listening to your discussion, your advertisement for the Magellan Navigation System, it really hit me directly.
We're talking about navigating here.
We're talking about these codes not being prophecy per se, but rather a navigation system by which a person who is prepared and talented might be able to achieve that level of consciousness.
Well, I can tell you I've had certain experiences, but I'm not that saintly a person.
When I first came on this, I'll tell you exactly what happened.
I had been studying these patterns in the text of Genesis for about 10 years.
And I read at one point that some of the teachings were that if you were just able to master the letters of the alphabet, sometimes you could have a Kabbalistic experience, whatever that might be.
So I said, okay.
I hadn't really paid a lot of attention to it.
I didn't really expect anything to happen.
But I realized I did have to learn how to at least draw the Hebrew letters properly.
To be able to read Shakespeare, you have to be able to read and write English.
Sure.
So I sat myself down, this was before computers, at a drawing board with a calligraphy pen and a lot of paper.
And I literally sat there for 16 hours drawing over and over again the letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
And what happened was, at some point, I got kind of dizzy, and I really didn't know what was happening.
I was very tired.
I was sleepy.
Maybe this was based on sleep deprivation.
I don't know.
And I felt that I had, I really don't have good language for this.
I guess I'm making my point.
You can't describe these things.
I felt like I was kind of in a tube, in a tunnel, a vertical tunnel, the walls of which were turning around me, and they were made of kind of flame.
And they consisted of letters of the Hebrew alphabet connected one to the other in a kind of continuous stream that I was in the middle of.
And I got really terrified.
I mean, this had never happened to me before.
This is not what I do all the time.
I don't know how long I was in the experience, but I remember I literally jumped out, scared, and ran out and grabbed my wife and hugged her.
I was really quite shaken by it.
And then I spent the next couple of years trying to somehow remember what it was that I thought I saw in this experience.
And even though it didn't give me the explicit details of what I found later, it kept me going.
May I stop you and present you with something that I would like you to consider, Stan?
I had a guest on named Doug Ruby.
Doug Ruby has deciphered crop circles.
Now this is not going to be as outlandish as you might imagine.
If you draw a circle and then you draw a half a circle above it or then a half circle below it now that's what you've got.
You've got a circle and you've got a half how do I describe this?
A half half emethere and another half.
You have nothing, but if you take that and you spin it, What you then have is two complete circles as you achieve rotation.
As you begin to rotate this, suddenly you have, in the spinning, two complete circles discernible to the eye.
And what Mr. Ruby discovered, he's an airline pilot, by the way, is he discovered that if you take crop circles and put them on paper and go through an elaborate business and end up spinning them, they suddenly make all the sense in the world.
And isn't it a little bit like the way you have approached the Bible?
In other words, these are patterns as well, and they're not understood until you do the right thing with them.
But if you really understand how this spinning process works, though, what we can spin in three dimensions is only a minor idea of how you can spin things.
There are more complicated spins that one can do to a form that bring it to higher dimensions more fully.
So there's a little more formal process that one can use.
Yes, the way you look at something is going to affect what you see.
That's a very important principle, and we all have to recognize that.
Whether you look at pi as a random number, error is completely determined, depends not on the sequence of digits, but on what you know about them.
If you don't know how far from the decimal point the digits in pi are, then you can use that as a quasi-random number, and people do that.
As soon as you're told that it's so many digits from the decimal point, it becomes exactly pi, and it's totally non-random.
The difference between pattern and not pattern is as much in our mind as it is in data.
That's why this is a science of consciousness and not just science per se, because there's an interaction with us and these patterns.
So I can't tell you much about the crop circles, but I can tell you the principle is correct.
How you look at something does depend, does affect what you see.
Well, certainly the fear and my being overwhelmed by the experience is something I can only say the words, but I can't, you know, you don't have that experience until you have it.
No, there really wasn't a lot.
I wasn't really prepared for it.
And in fact, it spurred me to get more prepared.
That's one of the reasons why I decided to take Judaism more seriously, which was my background culturally, but I wasn't really a religious person at the time.
And I realized that in order to be able to make sense of what I was seeing and experiencing and looking at, I had to stop reinventing the wheel and go back and read and study what other people had done and get myself grounded.
Otherwise, even if I could pull this off again, I didn't want to come back like one of Rabbi Akiva's friends, dead or crazy.
I wanted, if I was going to be able to do something, which I would still like to be able to do perhaps later in my life, is be whole enough like Rabbi Akiva was to be able to come back whole and intact.
I guess the modern terminology, I forget whether this is from Robert Anton Wilson or someone else, is that you don't carry weapons into chapel perilous.
If you go into a spiritual place defended with materiality, then you're going to get whooped by materiality.
If you go in open and undefended, if you're a saintly person, not faking, but really there, then it can open for you.
Then it can be a real and positive experience.
And I think that's what the story of Rabbi Kiva is about.
Whether people were really fully prepared or not, or only really appeared to be prepared, but weren't completely prepared.
And the whole point of the rabbi, the Pardee's experience, though, I didn't really get to finish the story.
Most people end the story where we stopped, but there's more to it.
And this is what should interest our audience and why we have some reasons to believe that we are talking about something that may be of a special nature and consciousness here.
Rabbi Kiva, after this event, goes on to have additional history.
He dies tragically.
He's literally skinned alive by the Romans, and it's a very painful situation.
And he says he's in ecstasy at the time.
He's not really feeling the pain of it, which is hard for us to understand.
I don't think I could undergo that and feel good about it.
But before this all happens, he appoints a Jewish general, a guy named Ben-Kasiba, as Bar Kachba.
Bar Kakhba is the Hebrew Aramaic term that means son of the star.
And my feeling is that he was talking about the same prophetic star as became important in the Christian tradition as designating the founder of Christianity.
I think that that's part of what happened.
The story in Judaism, however, is not the same.
The Romans eventually do kill Bar Kakhma, and so he's not the Messiah, and that's the end of the story.
Except, there are diaries kept by one of the most famous Kabbalists of all time, one of the leaders of the Jewish community in Islamic Spain, Rabbi Nakhmadis.
He kept diaries of a disputation that he was ordered to participate in under the Inquisition.
Yeah, well, unfortunately for Rabbi Machmanides, this was done in the court of King James II of Aragon, who was an extraordinary leader and who kept his word and saw to it that the Jews weren't killed afterwards.
But there was a persecution and Machmanides had to flee.
However, during the course of the disputation, and this is documented, at one point, Pablo Cristiani, the representative of the church, asked Rabbi Akiba: Isn't it true that the Talmud teaches that the Messiah will be born when the temple is destroyed?
And Rabbi Nachmanides, not Rabbi Akiba, Rabbi Nachmanides says, yes, that's true.
And then Pablo Christianity asks Nachmanides, well, the temple was destroyed then about a thousand years ago.
Why do you object to Jesus?
And Nachmanides says, well, it's not necessarily true that a person acts in the world when they're born.
And Pablo Christianity, in complete frustration, says to Nachmanides, well, where's he been all this time?
And Nachmanides replies, and this is where we get back to the story.
The Messiah, Messiach, is waiting in Pardees, waiting in Gon Aden.
The implication is that the experience of this opening to a higher reality, which we've all been promised in the Western faiths, is not necessarily tied to an individual, such as the founder of the Christian faith, but may be related to the experience of the experience, the Cardeus experience.
Stan has deciphered Bible codes from original Aramaic texts.
I believe that's correct.
I hope that's correct.
We'll ask about that in a moment.
From which it is possible to discern geometric patterns.
These geometric patterns can lead one into something called the Pardee's experience or meditation, which actually allows you, according to Stan, to achieve an understanding, or no, more than an understanding.
Experience, for example, creation.
A state from which not everybody returns intact.
And he can correct me, and I know I'm probably going down some wrong roads with this.
I'm trying desperately to grasp it, and I think I have, but just when I think I have, I'm thrown a curve.
Anyway, we'll get back to Stan in a moment.
It's absolutely fascinating stuff, folks.
The End Art, at about 5.30 this morning, my wife came into my den looking for me to find me immersed in Stan Tennon's tape, The Alphabet in Our Hands, third viewing of it.
He's not only a genius, as noted before, but he is poetic in his presentation.
I don't know if you've had time to look at the copy of Geometric Metaphors, but if you did and were intrigued by it, you'll be blown away by the alphabet.
Thank you, Daryl.
And then there's one other.
Art, I have heard about a secret biblical code for years now.
One thing that doesn't seem right to me.
The Bible originally had around 135 books before it was revised by church officials over the years.
With this thought in mind, could you please ask Stan how the coding could possibly still be intact when portions of the Bible have been withheld and the Bible revised to just 66 books?
Well, I'm not an expert on the Christian Bible, and there are some differences, but I can tell you with regard to the Torah text that the oldest copies that we have now go back about a thousand years.
I think one of them is the so-called Beningrad Codex, which is, I believe, still in Leningrad, which has probably got a different name now.
And in fact, there are many books that were not included in the main Hebrew Bible, even in the Hebrew tradition, but they do become part, at least some of them become part of what's called the Tanakh, which is not just the five books of Moses, but it includes the writings and the Proverbs and other additional materials that aren't really part of the Bible per se in the Hebrew tradition.
Now, the problem with translations, I think we mentioned earlier, once you start translating these texts, and the original is actually Hebrew and or Aramaic, they use the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabets of the same.
And that's one of the distinctions between the Jewish tradition and the other Abrahamic faiths is that Judaism includes the Talmud, the so-called oral Torah, the oral Bible, which isn't accepted by Christians and Muslims and is one of the things that divided our cultures centuries ago, so that you would get a different answer, perhaps, from a Christian or a Muslim than you would get from a rabbi on some of these questions.
And I don't want to speak for others.
I don't think that's appropriate.
Let me go back to a couple of other things that you said.
The Pardes meditation story, actually, although I was just telling it and paraphrasing it, it's not my story or my finding.
This is actually written in the Oral Torah, in the Talmud, in Aramaic.
And you can find references there and read it or read translations of it today.
The word Pardes isn't actually even a word.
It's our word, paradise, in English.
But in fact, it's an acronym with the P-R-D-N-S.
Again, the vowels don't appear in Hebrew.
Stand for story level, hint level, discussion level, and foundation level.
Now, that foundation level, the S stands for sood, Yesud, foundation.
That's the sequence of letters that's not retained when you make translations.
That's the area that we're looking at.
That's what the Bible codes researchers have found, using their statistical methods, have found codes in.
It's not the story.
It's not the words of the text that anybody's contesting or discussing here.
The research papers on which Drosdan is reporting were based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, the standardized text accepted by Orthodox Jews throughout the world.
How is it possible, Sam, that he came to one conclusion, as you pointed out earlier, fish, in essence, with very specific predictions or prophecy, actual words, predicting, for example, Kennedy would be killed, whatever.
And you, on the other hand, conclude that, no, there is a process by which you can divine these things once you enter this state.
In other words, if there is a code, how do the two of you disagree?
In fact, you're putting your finger on a very important issue here.
What Michael Drosden and most of the other people reporting on the statistically detected codes have done, probably innocently, I don't really know, is they've confused two different findings.
There are really two different groups of codes.
There are codes that are of very high statistical probability, which spell out simple words like the word Torah or the name of God, which everyone agrees are not accidental and are very real and no one has any explanation for.
Then there are these shorter codes, so-called, that seem to correlate either rabbis' names or famous people's names with their birth dates or special events of some sort.
These are not normal codes in the same sense.
One, they're not really predictive.
You need to know the event before you can find the pattern.
Any scientist will tell you that that's very, very shaky.
No, they've actually been sloppy in mixing up two different sets of findings.
And what I'm doing is not statistically based at all.
I didn't have knowledge of the statistics.
The work wasn't even done.
What I did was I came upon by basically really brute force methods, it took me almost 20 years of concentrated experimentation to find a way of relating the letters in a very simple sense that displayed these patterns.
In other words, what I did is what, let me tell the audience again, because this is a very good lesson in spiritual growth, too.
I didn't know it at the time.
I came into this as a person with a bachelor's degree in physics, with an experience making medical equipment and doing electronics and that sort of thing.
And I had all kinds of technical tests that I had at my disposal that I could use to look for these patterns.
And I tried every sophisticated test I could think of.
And then one, I didn't succeed.
And two, it finally dawned on me that I was being very arrogant here.
I was presuming that I was the first person finding this stuff that couldn't have been known in the ancient world because they didn't have these sophisticated tests.
And in fact, that's silly.
What I was really looking for, which I didn't know at the time, was something that could have been known in the ancient world based on technology that they did have.
Now, once I realized that, I started doing things that were really simple, things that everyone does.
Like, for instance, all of us in our culture have the experience as children of making paper models, where the model is rigged for you to be able to assemble it, because all you have to do, if you cut it out right, is put tab A in slot A, tab B and slot B, and the thing, the model, folds up into what was intended by the person who made it.
Well, that's what I ended up doing.
After giving up on all of these sophisticated techniques, after being properly humiliated technically, I was humbled, my arrogance was reduced, I spent a lot of time, a lot of effort, talked to a lot of experts, got nowhere.
I was reduced to doing, I used to tell people that this was like blithering idiot status.
It was basically got more childlike stance.
I started playing with it.
And what I did is I wrote the letters of the Hebrew text out, one letter each, on a bead, on a bead chain, in order.
And then I merely curled up the bead chain until the same letters lined up with each other.
And when I did that, just like with the paper model that we all have used as children or seen someone use, the bead chain, the paper, folded itself up into a form that I could recognize.
In fact, a very simple set of forms that unfolded one to the other in a very simple, logical, and very universal and compact and elegant way.
And what I found was, literally, what I'd been seeing all these years I'd been studying, all the sacred geometry, all the platonic solids, all the vortex forms, instead of just seeing this mishmash that I couldn't make sense of, bingo, the text of the Torah in Hebrew at the letter level was producing these patterns in order, in a beautiful, elegant order that unfolded naturally.
Is there a way, for example, on a videotape, you may have already done it, and that's what the facts are may have been talking about, but is there a way with computer, modern computer graphic demons, you know, the graphic ability to actually show this occurring?
We are working on a video right now, which we're hoping to make available to the cable stations and the networks when it's finished.
No contracts have been signed.
I've been working with some people in Seattle and maybe in San Francisco who have been working on computer graphic animations that literally show how this first letter point in the text blossoms and unfurls like a living thing.
In other words, if you are able through computer graphics to actually show these patterns being put together, are you not liable to put the person viewing the tape into what's called the Pardee's meditation state?
It has occurred, and it is a serious consideration.
My answer is I don't think there's much danger, and I'll tell you why.
These ideas were never really hidden or made secret.
They may have been certain circumstances in which they were.
But in fact, they're not made secret or kept secret or written in confusing terms in Kabbalistic or Sufi text just to keep them secret.
The reason that these texts seem opaque to us is because most of us haven't done our homework.
If you were to look at Shakespeare and you didn't know English, it would be opaque to you.
There's a kind of natural safeguard built into this system where you can only really appreciate it to the level appropriate to you.
Now, if you are really a bully and you force yourself into Chapel Perilus with weapons blazing, you're going to get whooped.
You bet.
Okay, well, that's a careless person in any context.
That's not just here.
But if you're a gentle person, if you step humbly, and if you base your growth and exploration of these ideas on integrity, then they will open for you safely.
And that's the whole point.
If you act recklessly, if you act in a foolhardy way when you're dealing with important spiritual concepts, yes, you can get in trouble, you can get hurt.
But if you act within, say, one of the reasons I'm grounding my work in Judaism is because I am fearful of doing damage to myself or others.
And I want to take a time-tested path that is going to help to keep me in a safe bounds with what I'm doing.
I'm trying not to be arrogant.
In fact, to the extent you're arrogant, this understanding closes to you, and all you get is the external shell.
And there are a whole bunch of spiritual gurus out there that are selling shells, if I can use that term.
Yes, you can.
And in fact, we are suffering.
One of the reasons we haven't done the animation so far is because we haven't gotten any funding.
And one of the reasons our funding dried up was because a plagiarist took this work and made believe he was us.
okay you are actually asleep or not is it Is it something you could do during the daylight hours with your eyes open, or is it something that would occur at night in a dream state?
Well, I guess it depends on how practiced you are.
There are several really good books out, and there's been some first-class research done on lucid dreaming.
I think there's a Dr. Ola Berge, I believe, connected with Stanford that's written a number of books.
I don't know him personally, but my understanding is that there's a body of modern scientific work that helps a person to gain access to lucid dreaming, and that enables them to grow with that expansion in their conscious life.
I can only explain what my personal experiences have been, which have been very limited.
But I know one thing is really striking about lucid dreaming, and that is the access to it is the same in the Talmudic tradition from the Middle East coming to us thousands of years ago, as it is in Carlos Castaneda's recent works a few decades ago on the Yaqui Indians.
In both cases, in the Talmud and in Castaneda, the recommendation is if you would like to become lucid in your dream, remember to look at your hand in your dream.
And that's what takes us right back to the beginning of our discussion.
Because in fact, the Hebrew and later Greek and Arabic letters appear to be shadows of our hand.
And if we look at these letters in our waking life and look at these letters in our mind's eye, then we're going to open ourselves to lucidity in this life and in our dream life.
And maybe, when we qualify, these processes will open for us to a deeper level.
That's at least my conjecture.
I mean, I don't know if anybody has actually taken this all the way.
We don't have any messiahs around at the moment.
I think that's probably a good thing.
There's a teaching that the messianic experience is always available, and when we merit it, it'll happen.
I know others have different teachings.
That's a Jewish teaching.
It may be that the Pardee's meditation itself is the messianic experience, and that we're all ultimately intended to emulate the founders of our faiths and walk in the shoes of a Moses or a Jesus or a Muhammad, who were, depending on your tradition and beliefs, had access to these levels.
Maybe that's what's coming forward in this century.
The rabbis have taught for several hundred years now that the modern age is going to bring these Kabbalistic, these mystical so-called, they're not really mystical, but that's a word that's used, these teachings to everyone.
It's the scientist, the scientific world that's going to open the emotional world, open the locks of these codes, and enable us to regain our heritage.
What I want to do when we come back, Stan, is ask you about NDEs, the near-death experience, and what you think that is.
I have interviewed many, many, many PEs, and frankly, what a lot like what you said you went through when you got near or into the Par Days experience.
Well, be back.
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You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks, tonight an ongoing presentation of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
Yes, near-death, and I want to interject one other aspect or question, and that has to do with soul travel.
I've interviewed a bunch of people about soul travel, and traveling with your soul seems very close to the NDE experience, both of which seem very close to your part's experience.
And I'm speaking as a researcher, and some of what I'm saying is accomplished fact.
we have been able to show that the coded patterns in the hebrew bible lead to the construction of the alphabet for instance but we haven't been able to I've been studying this for nearly 30 years.
The sages of the Talmud were elderly, learned persons who were pious all their lives before they had access to these levels.
So one of the real questions, which you mentioned earlier, is safety here.
What's the difference between a haphazard approach and a safe approach?
Also, you know, in Jewish tradition, we read through the Bible every year in a cycle.
And in the last week or so, the portion that we read concerned the Levites, the sons of Aaron, I believe, that offered strange fire and were destroyed.
And that's the point here.
If you are fortunate And talented, and you have an experience on your own, that's wonderful.
For someone else to try to do what you did, though, may not be appropriate to them.
In order for it to not be strange fire, not be just somebody's personal experience, but rather a tradition we can pass on, we can all grow from, that's still alive, thousands of years later in our time, the point is we want to ground what we're doing in the traditional knowledge of these traditions, of the Bible, of the Torah, of our sages.
We want to take their advice.
We want to do it step by step.
And we want to, what I think our sages would say, amounts to perfect our character, because there's a direct relationship between this near-death experience and how dangerous it is and one's ego, one's, or to put it on the other side, one's integrity.
A person who is very egocentric, who is looking for power and control, they have a very hard time with these experiences.
They're shattering experiences.
A mellower person, a person who has been humbled a little in their life, who's not so haughty spiritually or intellectually, tends to have a gentler, safer time of these experiences.
And so one of the prerequisites for these experiences to open for you, for anybody, is the intention to develop your integrity, your emotional and intellectual honesty.
The first, talk about the codes.
The very first letter of the Hebrew Bible, the first letter of the word we translate in the beginning is the letter B, bait, beta in Greek, bait in Hebrew, B in English.
It means a house, and it represents the distinction between inside and outside in every archetypal way possible.
A person who's having a near-death experience, their skin, like Rabbi Akiba when he died, their skin is dissolving.
Their inside and outside is becoming the same thing.
That's why we call it ego-death, because one's ego literally melds back into one's, I don't know what the right term is, call it soul.
This experience happens to everyone when they die.
It happens to some of us during life in traumatic situations, accidents, surgery, and any number of things.
There are rituals under which these kinds of experiences have been encouraged in various cultures.
There are current peyote rituals in some of the Amerindian cultures.
There were the use of ergodamine in ancient Egypt.
The Greeks had their soma.
The Eastern traditions have various agents and drugs they sometimes use in a ritual situation.
I'm not talking about experimentation here.
As initiators.
In our society, too, heavy doses of narcotics during surgery may be a cause of some of these experiences, these floating experiences, or trigger them or open to them.
So it can be an accident, it can be a trauma, it can be a shock, it can be any kind of initiator.
But these things are not repeatable.
If you want to hand down a tradition a safe path, a path that leads to, if I can use that term in a general context, leads to God, however you understand that, and not to some substitute or second-rate deity, if I can even conceive of that.
If like a plant, I'm reaching for the real sun in the sky and not for neon light that make it turned out at somebody's whim, then I need to record that safe path.
That's what these hand gestures do.
They function like Arthur Murray painting footprints on the ballroom floor to teach us how to do the foxtrot.
But instead, they enable us to move from mental state to mental state in our mind, what a real, serious, non-mystical meditation is, and exercise a dance in the mind that leads to a particular feeling experience.
And that's what the Western traditions, the Abrahamic traditions, have recorded.
That's the fishing pole that they've given us.
It's not one or two prophecies.
It's not a nostrilmous laundry list that we get.
It's rather, to the extent that we have integrity, it's our access to experience the prophetic state for ourselves and to learn how to teach others to reach for the same goal.
Surely the kinds of discussions that Constaneda was sharing with us would lead one to believe that there are people who can be warriors, who can be impeccable, which means honest, which means having integrity, who can do these things.
I think that it would be arrogant of me to say that there's any soul that's permanently lost.
If you believe in a transcendent God, and God isn't a little God, then anything is really possible.
Yeah, I hate to say this, Dan, but I think that if every American were to suddenly have this experience, 90% of us would be lost in the netherworld and utter vegetables when we came back.
Well, okay, ready or not, I still have to say again: if you were actually able to produce a videotape with the geometric patterns, you might be producing something extremely dangerous for somebody to view.
And even somebody who is not ready might view it, and sitting there in some level of concern about the geometric patterns, they might slip into a place they can't come back from.
I know, but if you do your job correctly, you're going to impart not just the geometric patterns, but you're going to impart an understanding of what's being seen.
And if the person grasps that, they're going to have that experience.
You do not want to give children a book of matches in a room full of gasoline.
And if I am telling you these are powerful effects and that they're real, then yes, they definitely do have to be used with respect.
One shouldn't tower trip with this.
One shouldn't try to exploit it.
They're very, very strong teachings that one doesn't exploit these sort of teachings.
I call it city tripping, S-I-D-D-H-I, where you learn some spiritual tricks and then use it to enrich yourself.
Well, that's an awfully cheap thing to do with something this valuable.
Even if it doesn't hurt you, it's a foolish waste.
What you want to do with these techniques is to perfect yourself, is to become a better person, a more giving, a more loving person.
If you're a Jew, you want to be able to really appreciate what Moses left for us in a deep personal way.
If you're a Christian, you want to emulate the path of the founder of Christianity.
You want to step in Jesus' footsteps, so to speak.
If you're a Muslim, you want to aspire to the sublime submission of a Muhammad.
That's your goal.
And so what you can do with what's really here, if you are humble, if you are caring, is you can approach what these great sages and teachers have been able to do.
And to the extent that you are gentle, you will only get the levels that are safe for you.
If you're an arrogant person and I give you a gun or nuclear energy or a spiritual teaching, you can abuse it.
The good guys and the bad guys usually have the same technology.
The Nazi scientists were working on the same theories of the atom bomb that our scientists were working on.
Thank God they didn't get there.
And I'm not saying that we necessarily have used this power so wisely ourselves either.
But in fact, the good guys and the bad guys, Pharaoh and Moses, had the same magic, but they didn't have the same connection.
And religion, in its best sense, is about connection and memory and waking up and integrating your own personality.
It's not a matter of just following rules.
That's how you start off.
You teach a kindergarten child the rules.
But later you empower a person with these teachings.
They're not supposed to end in Sunday school.
They're supposed to start there.
This is not something that you just study.
Learning to be a more honest person is a way of life.
And you don't have to be a religious person to know that.
All of our philosophers would teach that, whether they were religious in the Western sense or in any sense at all.
Even atheists know that.
So these are deep, deep principles that we all share regardless of our faiths or our beliefs.
And we access them by the level of our integrity and our intention to be giving people and learning people and yielding people.
And when we aspire to that, then life opens for us.
And when we try to control and manipulate, when we get scared, as I was when I had this experience with the alphabet, then we limit ourselves.
And we have to fight our way.
We have to work our way back to knowledge.
So, I mean, this is part of working our way back to knowledge.
It's part of what the Koblists call Tikkun, repairing the world.
Is there a way for an ego-tripping, self-absorbed, greedy, you know, all the modern attributes that we could more or less assign to a lot of people who are walking around today?
Is there a way for this kind of person to approach this experience and change slowly?
Or if you begin to have this experience, are you doomed?
I think that, again, really depends on your inclination.
If you approach this with respect, then it will open slowly to the extent that you can handle it.
If you jump in before you're ready, you get into a race car and floor it before you know how to handle it on the track, you're going to crack up.
That's what's happening with a number of people and teachers that are out on the public scene now.
You see the lunacy on the internet.
The internet is a wonderful communication pathway, but it also contains stuff that will get us all in trouble.
I mean, humility, when you're handed something powerful, is very important.
And a child that doesn't appreciate what matches can do in a room full of gasoline really isn't ready for those matches.
So yes, you're right.
You don't give a criminally insane person techniques for doing anything.
You try to calm them down and get them sane first.
But to the extent that we are not insane people, that most people are normal people at various stages of development, various places in life, and we're not gratuitously vicious or mean, and that we're intending to be good people, even if we don't get it right every time, if you're humble and you're in that position, And if you study seriously what our great sages have taught and not just head off on your own, then yes, this can open in a very safe way.
In fact, I think that's part of what the new age is really intended to do, is to open this can of worms gently so that we can savor it.
Worms, I used the illusion there, but so that we can experience it in a way that's going to be helpful to us, so it doesn't burn us out.
We want to find safe uses for our modern technology.
We want to do things that are going to help us to live together and build an ecology that works together.
And these same principles that we're worried about hurting us are the same principles we have to master if they're going to help us.
try to be a good person but I I understand my own limitations I have I stand a lot of i'm a very ambitious person i don't think that I'm not greedy, but I am very ambitious.
I want to be the very best at what I'm doing.
And these are egotistical markers, I'm sure.
And if I were to have that kind of experience, I'm not sure I'd come out on the other end at all whole.
The question is, do you intend to be going in the right direction?
No one ever is going to be perfect.
None of us are ever going to be sad.
I don't know any saints.
There are supposedly hidden Sadakhan saints in the world, and maybe they're hidden.
We don't see them.
But I don't know any saints.
I'm not going to be a saint.
But I do know I would prefer to learn to be a better person than to continue to be as limited as I've been in the past to the extent I'm aware of those possibilities.
And I would also like the people I know to be able to grow and improve and enjoy their lives better.
And grow and improve doesn't mean that he who ends up with the most toys wins.
It means that we all can share an enjoyable and fulfilling life together.
So again, encapsulated, those who have had NDEs or have experienced soul travel or some other form of meditation that gives them great insight or abilities, even abilities, they come out of it able to prophesize or whatever, are in effect stumbling into it, bumbling into it.
And what you have is you have discovered a woven ability to actually enter this state at will through codes in the Bible.
All right, again, we are going to go to the phones here in a moment.
Stan?
Right.
Again, it's coming in about 50-50 right now.
I asked the audience, do you get it?
About half of them get it and are awed by it, and the other half are bored and don't get it at all.
And, you know, it set me to thinking here at the top of the hour, it may well be that those who don't get it and don't understand it are not and shouldn't.
That they should drift off into watching whatever TV program they're watching or whatever and stay in their little world and shouldn't even try to grasp it because for them it would be dangerous.
But in terms of any individual, they may just need a different way to approach this.
I am a very analytic person.
I'm coming from a particular perspective.
We are doing a particular thing in this discussion that may not be their gate for understanding.
Or, you know, another thing is very important.
People aren't the same throughout their lives.
There are things that when we were children we could do that we can't do now.
And as children we couldn't do that we can do and can understand now.
I've discovered in presenting this material that yes, there are some people who can't get it or should whatever, but that in fact there's a kind of double take.
We get calls a year and two later after I've made a presentation or people have seen the work where it's clicked.
And it took that much digestion for them to get it.
Some of them are speculative and people shouldn't believe me.
And others that I think we've confirmed are really outrageous.
I'm saying that Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic really are sacred languages and that that's not a matter of belief.
It's because they're based on hand gestures which really do connect our conscious life and the physical world, which is what our hand really does.
And to say that at this late a date, when there's been so much scholarship in the academic and religious communities for so many years and no one else seems to have said that, that's pretty startling.
That's like Poe's purloined letter.
It's been in clear view all this time, hands, and yet no one's noticed it.
So that's a shocking thing.
No matter what the context is, that's an upsetting thing.
People have to think about that a little, have to feel comfortable with it.
Give the audience a break.
It took me 20 years to almost 30 years now to get on top of this.
Maybe it takes some people more than an hour or so.
Well, first, let's back up a little and give a little context here.
We were talking before about safe and dangerous and all of that.
And I was saying that the good guys and the bad guys have the same technology.
My Jewish friends are going to be upset if I start talking about pyramids.
And my friends that weren't Jewish are going to wonder, what does Pharaoh's religion have to do with Judaism?
In fact, we are taught in the Bible and from history, assuming that Moses was a historical figure and Pharaoh was a historical figure, that Moses was raised in Egypt and was taught all of the technology, all of the magic, quote-unquote, of the pharaonic court.
And yes, Jewish tradition believes that some of that knowledge was brought to Egypt with Joseph, but we don't have to get into that.
The technology, the knowledge base that Moses had was the same as the knowledge base of Pharaoh.
But you know, if you examine the character of Moses and Pharaoh as archetypes, and you examine the character of that pre-Israel community and the pre-Egyptian community, and you look at the words you describe them, and you use this model we found that gives you operational meanings of words to give a sense of what those words imply, then you can feel the difference here.
In the Bible, in the Hebrew Bible, Moses is described as the humblest of human beings.
He is supposedly a person that has no ego at all.
And that's what qualifies him for the high experiences that he's credited with having.
Pharaoh literally represents pride.
They both have the same knowledge base, but one of these people is humble in the face of the enormity of life.
And the other says, I'm big and bad, and I'm in charge here, and I don't care about anybody else.
Israel, if you look at the word, literally means to be upright or to wrestle with God, to struggle, because you're not perfect and don't know everything with the transcendent.
Mitsrium, Egypt, means constriction, means running around with your head cut off, like a chicken with your head cut off.
Means being, you know, the impression I get is it's like living in New York City.
And I can say that because I've lived in New York City.
This is the chaos of modern life, the spiritual constriction that we all experience in our lives today.
That's Mitz Ryan.
Again, the technology is the same, but how we behave and how we use it and the quality of our character determines whether we are talking about the Abrahamic faiths based on humility or what we consider to be our understanding of Pharaoh's religion, which was based on pride.
Now, from that context, we can study the pyramid, and we can learn something about both the pyramid and the Bible, and we don't have to be choosing between them.
We already know the choice.
It's not the technology of the pyramid that was the problem.
It was how Pharaoh used it.
It wasn't the technology of the tabernacle that made Moses great.
It was how the people in Moses behaved towards the wonders in their midst, towards the knowledge, towards what they've been entrusted with.
So from that context, then we can go back and look at the stories about the pyramid and the rest of it.
I don't remember where I first heard it, but I've read it in several sources.
And some people take it in the simplistic sense.
There was a lot of pyramidology a while ago when the pyramids were first being explored.
Piazzi Smith and those original people that did very mystical studies and numerological stuff.
And they were literally looking for the Bible in the pyramid.
And there are people who talk about the length of the passages as being prophetic in terms of the life of some of our religious leaders and things of that sort.
That's not what I mean.
What I mean is that the geometry, the structure, the meaning, the purpose of the pyramid is complementary to that in the Bible.
When I first laid out the bead chain that lined up the letters in the beginning of the Hebrew text of Genesis, it laid out on a spiral form that had seven turns and eight axes of symmetry.
Now, if you're a mathematician, and I don't think most people listening are, you know something called the argon pole angle, which is a measure formula in mathematics.
If you take, use the formula for the argon pole angle, and the radius that you're looking at is 7, and there are 8 poles, then the measure of that argon pole, the pattern of Genesis that I found, is the 8 through the 7.
And if you take out your handy-dandy pocket calculator, you will discover that the 8 through the 7 is almost identically the tangent of the pyramid angle, approximately 52 degrees.
So that it turned out that when I drew the first verse of Genesis with all the letters lined up, like a paper doll where I put tad A and slot A and tad B and slot B, when I lined up all those letters, I ended up drawing the pyramid.
Now, I don't mean it, I just drew it in the shape of a pyramid.
I meant mathematically, one of the ways to measure the quality of this kind of spiral cyclical pattern matched up with what we see physically in the pyramid.
Yeah, now, this is not the strongest part of what I'm saying, because there are other possible explanations, and there are only a limited numbers of ways to make these patterns, and it might be that they may be all of them are related to the pyramid.
So I don't want to make too much of this, but it was surprising, and it is one way in which I mean the Bible and the pyramid may have a connection to each other.
But that's not the deepest meaning.
The deepest meaning is in terms of what we think is their function.
And here's where we have to get pretty speculative.
And what I'm going to say is based not only on my own work, but on speculation by others, although I wouldn't be relaying it if I didn't think it was worth considering.
The pyramid is not only called the Bible in stone, but it's also said to have been made somehow by the use of levitation, which of course the scientific community thinks is foolish.
And also, according to authors such as Elizabeth H., it was a chamber of initiation in the king's chamber or the coffer or whatever, whatever that might mean.
We also have historical reports.
The pyramid was only defaced when there was an earthquake in the Cairo region about 600 or 700 years ago.
And when many of the mosques were destroyed, they used the available limestone casing blocks of the Great Pyramid to rebuild some of the mosques.
And so that's how the coating got stripped off.
But that's only several hundred years ago.
We do have some historical references to that.
And in fact, there are descriptions of the outer skin of the pyramid having had some sort of spiral pattern on it with seven bands in the form of the rainbow spiraling around it.
Well, that again matches the description of the letter model I found in Genesis.
It's got seven turns to it, and they spiral around.
And there is a theorem in mathematics called the seven color map theorem that refers to these sorts of patterns, which could have been known in the ancient world.
It looks like the purpose here is, in the case of the pyramid, to preserve a physical record, perhaps even a device, that could assist in this process.
And it looks like we have a written record of the experience, of the way it unfurls from the Western cultural perspective, in the Abrahamic traditions.
So it looks like if we could understand the similarities, the overlaps, if we could reintegrate Egyptian technology into Israelite experience without defaming or debasing the spiritual tradition, then we might gain a good deal of insight that was available in the Mosaic period, in the Solomonic period, which isn't available to us today.
And so if we proceed, maybe we're going to find that.
Stan, I want to tell you something, and maybe you can answer this for me, and probably you can't.
I had a guest on recently who had just returned from Egypt.
Just come back.
And he brought with him Some stones from the actual center of the pyramid.
They're doing a dig, a secret dig, maybe not now, secret, from the king's chamber down to the queen's chamber.
Oh, you know about that.
Well, the gentleman who, and I wish I could think of his name right now, maybe you know him, who did the program and helped reveal all this, sent me a stone from the center of the pyramid.
I have it.
And I'm going to tell you something I've done now, and maybe you can explain to me what it means.
You know, a common everyday watch that you will put in the light and then take into a dark room will glow.
After an hour or two, that glow, if not exposed to light, will begin to fade.
I tried this, Stan.
It's true.
You can take a watch into a dark room, let it go ahead and begin to fade.
Take this stone from the pyramid, and when you put it adjacent to the watch, it will begin glowing brighter than if you had had it outside in the sun.
There was a report which was, I heard a story, now this is a story, that there was an Egypt pyramid conference a number of years ago, I believe, down in the Virginia Beach area, where one of the main speakers couldn't show at the last minute.
And they had a substitute come in and give an off-the-cuff report, and that there was statements made to the effect that they had found chambers in the Great Pyramid that contained what I understood to be some form of sand, not limestone, that would be silicate, so it may be different.
That was radioactive.
And that the person reporting it didn't know if it was just mildly radioactive or very radioactive.
If it was mildly radioactive, that's not so extraordinary.
There is limestone that tends to be mildly radioactive.
I've taken every other substance that I can lay my hands on, including, you know, I live out here in the desert, rocks, and everything I can try, and nothing else has the effect on the watch that this stone from the pyramid.
Would you be surprised if I had an explanation for why it might be appropriate for there to be some sort of low-level radioactive material in the pyramid?
He has uncovered Bible codes in the original Aramaic text that when viewed or even when deciphered, if understood, lead to an experience known as the paradise experience.
In other words, what Stan Tennon is saying is that if you understand and go into meditation based on these codes and the geometric patterns produced by these codes, you will experience what's in the Bible.
For example, in Genesis, creation, actually experience it yourself.
I know I'm not up to it, and I doubt many people are out there, but that is what he's saying.
And then I asked, well, do you get it?
And here's a couple of typical responses, and I want to stand to hear them.
Geometric paradigms embedded in stories of God drowning all children and babies in a global flood, an earth populated by a very incestuous family, meaningless, equivocal BS.
And he didn't put BS, he did the whole thing.
Not worthy of any Art Bell show.
Response one, that's from Doc Berry and Phoenix.
Or this, dear art, yes, I get it.
I teach it.
Not only do I get what he's saying, I agree.
And I'm teaching the same thing from a doctor whose name I will not have mentioned, will not mention, or this.
Dear Art, your guest is outstanding.
I have searched for the truth my whole life in my own way.
And my conclusions this far are almost exactly what your guest is saying.
And although this just scratches the surface of the whole picture, I'm excited to hear someone else has a similar view.
The power he is talking about is available to anyone who has the insight and intelligence to learn, be their purpose good or bad, and your guest is wise not to openly say it is so with the social degenerates of society today.
This would be a dangerous time in history.
So, Stan, there you are.
Two very different or three very different responses to what you've been saying.
Well, I'm having the first time I presented this material to people who later became part of the board of directors of Meru Foundation, which we put together to support this, one of the people in the room stomped out in the middle muttering, this is the work of the devil, and never came back.
People are entitled to their opinions.
I think the criticism is based on a misunderstanding of what I'm saying, but I understand that reaction.
I don't know if the person in fact heard the whole program, so maybe they missed a few of the things that I said.
It may well be.
I'm not trying to criticize, defend, or promote the stories in the Bible.
And the patterning that I'm talking about is not directly related to the stories that we all know and either love or hate, depending on how you feel about the Bible.
I'm saying that as a scientist, I examined the document and I found woven into it, and I use the word woven because I think the text actually was woven, woven into it patterns that I recognized.
And I looked for an explanation for them.
And the explanation I'm finding is pretty far-fetched if you haven't looked into this for yourself.
Obviously, it's far-fetched.
If it weren't far-fetched, we'd all know about it already.
And it is something I don't think people should believe.
I think they should check out what I'm saying.
On our website, there's actually a statement of the relationship of the three Abrahamic covenants, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, to something I call the carpeting trick and the point I make is don't believe any of this unless you do the experiments for yourself and these are not necessarily scary experiments any more than normal dreaming would be scary or normal daydreaming or fantasizing would be scary obviously people can do crazy things in any context but there are simple things you can
do to demonstrate for yourself whether or not there is a basis for what I'm saying.
And while I haven't reached the heights of any of these things, I've done some of these simple experiments.
Well, the car-passing trick, which I've discussed at length in other contexts, is based on an understanding of the relationship of the three Western covenants, whether you believe them or not.
The Jewish covenant is basically based on the study of the Torah, of the Hebrew Bible.
The Jewish tradition emphasizes learning, which if we wanted to be a little negative, we could call it head-tripping.
If we wanted to be more positive, we could talk about it being logical.
The Christian covenant, I believe, I'm not insulting Christians to say, is based on passion and compassion and nurturing and nourishing and giving and working in the world.
The Christian community isn't that intense on studying, certainly not the Hebrew Bible.
And even the Christian Bible isn't always what the Christian community does.
Christians are known for their passion and their compassion.
Islam literally means to yield, to submit to Allah, to let go, to give up.
When you have a clear understanding of what you want and are interested in, the Jewish covenant, when you back that up with hard work in the world, what the Easterners would call Dharma, I think.
I may be using that wrong.
And then after you put in all this clear work and planning and all this hard work, you let go and yield to nature or to life or to God, depending on your beliefs.
Then things happen.
Look, if you're house hunting, you get an idea of what kind of house you want.
It's also the principle of which anything is created in the world.
Babies come into the world this way.
First, we know, we see, we intellectualize, we see our partner at a distance.
And we think, we decide we want a child.
We fantasize about it.
Then we have to live with our partner.
And that's work and passion and compassion.
We have to literally make love.
And that making love process, which is called the petite mort, the little death, is in fact a giving up.
And then when the child is ultimately born, we have to release that child into the world and let go of it.
And so the creative process, even in that most elemental of human experiences, is the same.
It's based on, in this form of analysis, this isn't the only way you can analyze it, of course.
These three conditions that all have to be present.
You have to know what you're doing, you have to work hard at it, and you have to let go of it.
Now, I wrote up on the Internet a little experiment you can do when you're driving along behind the guy that's driving too slowly, and there's no way to pass.
And I describe in detail how you think about what you want, how you put in the appropriate effort, may I stop you?
Let me stop you and tell you what I think about in that situation.
Dual-mounted, 50-caliber machine guns, and a button convenient on my steering wheel, which I can press, totally peppering the car in front of me, and destroying it totally.
This is not the kind of person who should reach out and try to have the experience you're talking about.
Well, on the other hand, I'm being honest with you.
Well, what you can do, and you can adapt this to your own circumstances, is the first thing you do is you form in your mind clearly, without just being random and aggressive, that you really want to pass this guy.
You notice that you're going slow, and you form a thought that, you know, it would be really nice if we get past this guy, and you look around for alternatives, and you obviously find that you can't pass, or if it's a cop, you follow it, you know.
You can't pull out the Tommy gun, right?
Or you shouldn't.
Anyway, so first you do the mental work.
Then you basically do the physical work.
You follow this person.
You don't try to blow them away.
You don't try to cut around them.
You actually put the effort in to drive safely behind them.
And while you're doing this, and while you're forming the thought in your mind that you would like to pass, you know how you position your mind?
It's like when you're trying to get through a crowded hallway, and you'll tap someone on the shoulder, and it'll just yield a little, enough for you to get squeezed by.
And then while you're doing this, you allow yourself to be distracted, to give up on it, to say, okay, you know what?
I'd really like to pass this guy, but in fact, like Castaneda recommends, you turn it into a controlled folly.
I'm willing to follow this guy until hell freezes over, until I get where we're going, whichever comes first, whether or not I can pass him.
And I'm just going to give up on my request and let go of it.
Sometimes they have to turn on the radio and get lost in what the person is saying.
Maybe they're listening to us and doing it right now.
And then at the moment your ego has dropped, the moment you've given up, let go, forgotten, you will notice, if this works for you, that something will come up and the obstacle will disappear.
Either Farmer Brown will pull over or the road will widen, it will be a passing zone, or something will happen that enables you to safely get past the obstacle.
It happens at the very moment you really let go of your trying to do this anyway.
You've dropped your ego, and you'll know when it's going to work because you'll realize when you're faking it, and you only think you dropped your ego, and you still want to get past it, goddammit.
And you'll also know, and you'll notice when, in fact, you actually let go.
And look, you can't power trip this.
You can't brag about it.
You want to keep your ego out of it.
You don't want to tell the guy next to you in the car what you're going to do because that's power tripping and that's ego building and that it prevents you from dropping your will and your expectation.
But if you do this in a gentle and humble way, if you pay attention, if you do it beyond the point at which you have any expectation that it's working.
You told me you observed when you brought this stone that was excavated in the pyramid near your fluorescent watch face, it glowed more than it would normally have glowed.
But other than that, my first hypothesis is it's probably mildly radioactive, and that's probably not terribly extraordinary.
Other than it may be deliberate, there is a reason why you would want to make a structure like the pyramid warm.
It may even be one of the reasons you would pick Cairo as a location, because it's warm there.
If you were actually, if the pyramid were actually, and I'm saying if here, if the pyramid were actually a device, then we could use certain basic scientific principles to figure out what kind of device it is.
We know devices, when you're making something useful and meaningful, the materials we choose and how we fashion them and the conditions in which we use them are important.
You don't make an automobile block out of a soft material that melts at the temperature that gasoline burns.
And you don't hone the outside of the carburetor, even if you're a car nut, you merely polish it because that would be a gratuitous behavior.
You need to hone the cylinders to get them that smooth.
But to make it look pretty, you don't need to hone the outside of the carburetor.
So that, in fact, what you do and the precision with which you do it, and the conditions under which you use it, are very important.
So if we want to understand the pyramid, we shouldn't just speculate wildly.
We should set out a set of hypotheses and then we should check them off and see what they lead us to.
Well, the most important, most impressive thing about the pyramid is its size.
So the first question to ask is, is there a reason other than the purported vanity of the pharaoh that it would need to be that size?
And we should put that on the table.
The second most obvious thing about the pyramid, and this is the most obvious thing that no one seems to have noticed, is its material.
Most of the pyramid, now the chambers and passages are lined with granite, but the bulk of the pyramid, well over 95% of it, maybe over 99% of the pyramid, is linest.
And if we examine limestone carefully, we discover something truly astonishing, which no one seems to have paid any attention to.
You know, one of the things that's most important in science is resonance, is when things are like other things and therefore can partake of them and interact with them.
The pyramid is made of limestone.
Limestone is predominantly calcium carbonate.
The pyramid limestone is not that pure.
The outer casing stones were much purer.
But predominantly calcium carbonate.
Calcium carbonate is a very interesting material.
It's the most common mineral on the face of the earth after the silicates, after the granimic materials.
All of the calcium carbonate on the surface of a planet, I believe this is true, maybe our listeners will correct me, is the result of the dissolving and recrystallizing of invertebrate skeletons.
This is bone that's been dissolved or crushed and compacted and crystallized.
And so it's the ash of life.
The pyramid of calcium carbonate structure sits on a limestone outcropping at Giza.
The material being presented this morning is something that you apparently either get and understand or reject and get angry at.
That is what I'm concluding by reading what I'm getting from many of you out there.
Back to Stan and your questions coming up.
This should be very, very interesting.
Very interesting.
Back now to Stan Tennon, who has a B.S. in physics and has been researching Bible codes derived from ancient Aramaic that produce geometric shapes that induce a condition which actually allows one to experience what is described in the Bible.
Not to read it, not to have an understanding of what you read, but to actually experience it.
That's what he is saying is contained in this woven tapestry of information in the coding of the Bible.
And now we have begun to talk about the pyramids as well.
My question is, and let me preface this by saying I've lived in the Middle East myself and have visited the pyramids and the Sphinx and was filled with a little bit of wonderment in that.
But my question was in the latest discoveries they found on the Sphinx and the relationship between the pyramids and the Sphinx, dating, etc., and materials as well, if there might be some links, materials and placement and so forth, not so much for obviously the solar benefit of alignment, but also astronomical outside our system.
And then also the biblical context of it, having been studied extensively pretty much most of my life as well, I think that there's a lot of things that we're discovering today that there are many similarities and alignments in both the Islamic beliefs and Christian and Judaist beliefs that are being confirmed with what's happening today with some of the mathematical
Well, I think what you're saying is basically correct.
I don't know a lot about the Sphinx.
I haven't done that myself.
I am very open to what's been suggested recently.
and i do in general like the work of both our own and park i think that it much older than what they believe that it had to be well we believe it was I certainly think we should take what they're presenting seriously and check it out carefully.
I am not at all satisfied with this traditional archaeologist's explanations and dates.
That doesn't mean that others are right, but it does mean that there's plenty of room for improvement in our understanding here.
And some of what I know tends to be consistent with what Bovell and Hancock have presented.
Also, we haven't talked about the sky connection to these codes in the Bible yet either.
But there is a connection, and it's the same sort of connection as with the pyramids.
I would like to bring something up here, and then we'll go back to phones very quickly.
And it has to do with Mars.
We've got Surveyor on Mars right now, and there are some remarkable discoveries being made.
For example, they're claiming that at one time Mars was covered in a great flood.
We're talking about a red, dusty planet with rocks everywhere, and what they are concluding is at one time there was a great flood.
Well, where the hell did all the water go?
I mean, that's an incredible thing to contemplate.
Three billion years ago, there was a great flood.
Mars was, you know, water world.
And now there is no water.
It's dusty and dry and red and has rocks.
They're talking about volcanic activity and all kinds of things that are just utterly unimaginable to us.
They're saying that the rocks that they're seeing there have a complete resemblance with the analysis they've done so far to that which we have found on Earth, which were somehow blown off from Mars in some great catastrophic hit, that harbor some sort of microbial life.
There is a great mystery there, and it's unfolding before our eyes, raising more questions than it is answering.
And of course, we have these geometric shapes and these things at Sidonia that we don't understand and that we are presently not investigating.
I'm not a planetary physicist, and I only know what I've been told by others.
But in fact, there is a direct connection between the geometry in the vicinity of the face on Mars and the geometry of the model human hand we found specified in the Bible.
The model hand, when you make it properly, the fingertips, if you were to place your hand facing a tabletop with thumb and fingers down, ideally, based on this model, your fingers would come down at 19.5 degrees.
And also, to be explicit, I found that mathematical analysis very, very intriguing and very, very important.
But the clincher for me is the fractal imagery photographs that are in Carlado's book on Mars, which show that the face and some of the other objects in the area are quite anomalous when they're analyzed using fractal methods of analysis, which we've only recently developed.
And so that combination of circumstances, I find, is very, very intriguing and suggestive.
I'm hoping that one of these NASA missions to Mars is going to actually go back and have a good look.
I'm very liberal on the idea that there is going to be life throughout the universe.
And I think the bigger question is how intelligent it is.
I think it's almost inevitable.
I mean, we've already found carbon molecules of various forms that are suggestive of life on all kinds of things that have hit our planet from outer space.
And it's just very plausible that some of these lifelike proteins are going to occur and organic chemicals are going to occur given how vast the universe is.
But Stan, where I was going with this was, if there was life on Mars, if it did evolve to an intelligent level, is it not possible that these geometric patterns that we see were created by Mars equivalent to our pharaohs.
It's an idealization that you find when you use mathematical methods to compare radiuses in the ideal to circumferences in the ideal.
And you always, no matter where you are, no matter what your consciousness is, no matter what you believe, you're going to find that value of pi in whatever number situation.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Stan Tennon.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi.
I wanted to ask a couple questions.
One was when you were talking about the identification with God being overwhelming, and this is what Carl Jung said, that an unmediated realization of God could be overwhelming to people.
And yes, this is kind of an empirical thing in the 20th century that he realized.
And the other thing I wanted to ask you was, like, do you know if or do you have any opinion about whether the people who actually wrote the Bible had did this deliberately and encoded that message into the Bible,
In other words, was this an intentional encoding or I don't know whether you know about Mr. Oates who does reverse speech.
And it seems to be...
You just play something backwards, and every few seconds there will appear this congruent sentence that appears to come from the unconscious, which either is always congruent with what's being said forward, but either reveals it to be a lie or the truth.
So did the people who write the Bible know what they were doing, or is this coding something that was probably not a conscious thing at the writing?
Well, I don't know if there's a simple answer, but let me give you an analogy.
Is the number pi written by our mathematicians, or is it intrinsic to be discovered in the world?
Obviously, it's discovered, but it's also we choose the number system, we choose to do the calculations, and we choose to interpret them.
My understanding of the experience of Moses is that because of his great humility, his ego dropped out, and he was able to experience a kind of unification of the conscious and the physical world.
And that unfurled through him in a way that he could express in Hebrew letters that represented the path of the feelings that he received and experienced.
That what the sequence of letters in the Hebrew Bible represents is literally, as best can be recorded, the experience of Moses in detecting this pattern and in receiving it from, well, we can say God, you don't have to believe in God, wherever it manifested from.
It could come from nature like pie does.
You don't have to believe in God to discover pie.
I prefer to believe the stories as we're given them, but that's my choice.
I can't prove they really happened.
I do know that honorable people wrote the stories, so I believe that they chose things to say that they believe to be literally true.
But that's not really dependent on the experience that Moses had directly.
Moses, I think, wrote down a sequence of Hebrew letters, which are pretty much analogous to the process a mathematician uses when they calculate and write down the sequence of digits in pi.
That Moses was recording something intrinsic to the relationship between consciousness and physicality.
And that that's what the Bible at the letter level, the sequence of Hebrew letters, actually represents.
And you know, there's a possible proof or confirmation of this.
If I'm right, then these Bible codes, which consist of these equal interval letter skip patterns, which I'm saying appear to mean that the text is woven of these patterns, and so that these equal skips are like looking at stripes on a Navajo rug.
That these actual patterns are patterns that exist in nature.
Now, the Jewish tradition teaches that the Torah is the template of creation, and that God, in a sense, looks through the Torah and projects the world.
Well, we don't have to believe that or disbelieve that to test it.
If we can look through the Torah and see the world, then that confirms the teaching.
Well, what could we see?
It appears that these woven patterns are like basket weaving, like reeds.
Very similar to the sorts of maps that are woven by Polynesians and Micronesians to navigate using the tides and using the sky, the heavens.
We know that the ancient Egyptians, we know that the Israelite traditions, we know that the Babylonians and many of the other ancient peoples have excellent calendars.
They Observe the heavens.
A lot of the pyramid archaeology research that's being done now is also focused on the observation of the heavens.
When you attempt to draw these epicyclic patterns that the planets and the constellations and the stars appear to make in the sky, they look for all intents and purposes like basket weaving.
I am saying that as part of what we're discovering is woven into the Torah text is basket weaving that represents the patterns on the temples of the heavens.
And that if we can project that same pattern onto the temple of our mind, in principle, there's no difference between inside and outside.
We have no skin, and we are experiencing an ego-death experience, a meditational or prophetic state.
That this is not mysticism.
This is a neurophysiological reality that can be tested.
That this isn't some theory that I'm making up.
We can literally look at the woven patterns in the Torah text, which exists, and compare them to patterns in the heavens and see if they're the same.
And we can flesh out these ideas to the extent that they're true and refine them and learn a good deal about how the ancients view the world and what they were really recording in what we call the Bible.
Yeah, that's basically the part of this that is not valid.
The codes that have been detected statistically are valid, but the interpretations about Hitler and Yeshua and Joe Camill and Buddha, well, that's been done too, are not valid.
And there are sound technical reasons why that's true.
If I were to have Mr. Doznan on the program with you and there would be an ensuing debate about his interpretation of the coding and yours, what form would that take?
Well, I would stand on three pieces of information.
First thing I would do, and I just pulled this out of my bookshelf while we were on commercial break here.
I know not everyone has a statistical reference library, but I happen to have a few books.
This is from Reasoning About Luck by Vinay Mbigay O'Car, published by Cambridge University Press.
It's a recent publication.
It's a scholarly publication by a quality statistician.
On page 9, he says, quote, About statistics, it's worth making the point that the concept of probability makes sense only when there is some understanding or working hypothesis about what is going on.
What that means is that although the numerical results that the statisticians have obtained are correct, their meaning is completely undecidable unless and until there's a working hypothesis.
And that's what's been missing.
And the benefit of a working hypothesis, of a model, is that it enables you to sort the real, meaningful results you have from results that you know you can expect to occur by virtue of accident alone.
You can't tell the difference between a coincidence or an accident and a real data point without a model.
And that's the problem.
The Hitler, Yeshua, rabbi name, because I'm not trying to just be negative here.
These shorter codes that say Rabin, assassin, will assassinate are not legitimate because they fail the basic principle of probability theory.
There is no working hypothesis.
Now that's the first leg I'd stand on, and I think any statistician would have to back me up on that, including the people who did the work.
I was just going to make a slight, I guess it's probably a major comparison.
Most religions, when people are trying to find God, they're either in prayer or if they can't find God, then they're asking for God, so their hands are outstretched.
So it's fairly symbolic that it would come back to the hands themselves.
And with regards to the pyramid, it's probably something that God had created and left there as a testament.
And the Egyptians, in their evolution and everything else, probably moved into it at some point in time.
And they'll probably find at some point in time that there will probably be a connection between Moses and the Pharaohs and something to do with the golden calf that might actually be hidden somewhere in the Great Pyramid itself.
And I know people hold beliefs like that, and everyone really has a right to their beliefs and to work through them.
I try not to pay a lot of attention to traditional teachings at the word level.
I've been trying to do, in spite of my personal beliefs, an analysis of the physics of what I see, and in the case of the Bible text, the sequences of letters.
And so I heard the story that you've just told us from others.
I think that it's important that you work through what you believe to be true, but it's not something that I can focus on.
I think that we are the agent, assuming that, I'm an Orthodox Jew, so I can say assuming there is a God, but I don't think you have to believe that.
I'm saying assuming that there's a God, that we are the agents by which God works.
That if God made the pyramids, he used us to do it.
Because I don't see any need for a miracle there.
We didn't get into the physics that explains some of these legends about meditation and initiation.
But in fact, there are rational explanations for the alleged properties of the pyramid that are much more spiritually sound than simply jumping to a miracle.
That's part of the problem with the Bible code, jumping to this prophetic level and jumping over the empowering level of real understanding.
And Mr. Tennon, I just want to say that I deeply, deeply love you, love what you're doing.
And you may not consider yourself much of a saint, but I consider you a spiritual giant.
You know, you're not a Pharisee, but let's face it, the Pharisees were the ones that crucified Christ.
They missed it altogether.
The question I have is, I've always had a deep desire in my heart, being a Christian, to get a pure translation of the Bible.
And I've been told that I've never quite trusted the translation that I'm reading.
And I've been told that there's been changes made, like this is like a crude example, but when it was originally written, it was written something like, my stomach would praise the Lord.
And when it was translated, it would be translated as something like, my soul would praise the Lord.
Or they change what was originally said.
And I was wondering if your works are going to help to get back to the original translation of the Bible.
Well, yes, actually, if these theories that we're working with check out, then one of the things we've discovered by taking an analytic scientific approach is that we've actually found a way of rationally assigning meanings to each of the Hebrew letters.
And we've discovered that the meanings we found by this rational analytic process actually match up with the traditional letter name meanings for the letters.
But that the benefit of our operational meanings is that you could actually add them together to figure out what the root word means.
So that, for instance, the word that we translate now as Sabbath, which we know is, in a colloquial sense, means the seventh day of the week.
The actual Hebrew letters say to sit within yourself, which is why meditation.
And that's also why Jews are taught, in my opinion, this isn't the rabbinic teaching, this is from my work.
That's why I believe Jewish tradition teaches that you don't carry outside of the home on the Sabbath.
You sit within yourself.
You don't take outside and do work.
And so if you go to the letter level and read it letter by letter, you can get a more accurate sense of the meaning.
In terms of translations of the Hebrew Bible, I think your best way to proceed would be to get as many different translations as you can find and do your own comparison.
I don't think that one can express the full meaning of the Hebrew in any one English translation.
That's true of any great work.
It's not just true of the Bible.
You can't translate Shakespeare very well into French unambiguously.
I'm sure there's some beautiful translations, but I'm sure they're not all the same.
So I think that if you want to get a deeper sense of what the actual Bible is saying and get away from some of the mythological interpretations that our religious traditions have shaded there, maybe certainly inadvertently, but inevitably, then get a Hebrew version, get a Catholic version, get a Christian version.
Even if you can find, get a Muslim version.
And read an older version and a more recent one.
Read a critical edition and read a very plainly written one.
And trust your own work to lead you where you need to go.
Don't trust me or experts.
I'm not a guru.
When you're listening to another person, even if they're a saint, you're just listening to another human being.
When you listen to your heart, honestly, then you might be listening to God.
I haven't tried anything like that, and I wouldn't even know how to evaluate how technically accurate it would be to do such a thing.
What I've tried to do is to go back to technology and understanding that we know was available several thousand years ago.
And so I'm basically trying to limit myself to the understanding of the calendar and of weaving and embroidering and brocading and working with wood and the simple cooking and household skills and farming skills that we know people have.
Because from that context, I can be reasonably sure that I'm not making up something, that the tools I'm using and the tools they were using are similar, and I'm digging in similar earth, I'm likely to be on the right track.
And if I use more modern ideas, it's hard for me to understand if they're appropriate.
unidentified
The reason I used a seven bass and progressed it to 12 was because of the scribes during the time of the writing.
So I thought that would be an interesting way to do it.
Yes, I didn't start with any interest in the Kabbalah.
I never even heard the term when I started.
But what's turned out is that these models that we found by lining up the letters in the Hebrew text of Genesis actually make sense of Kabbalistic texts that are now in dispute or only translated as mythology or poetry.
Okay, okay.
unidentified
I believe there's a passage that says that Moses knew the ways of God, but Israel saw the acts.
In other words, like Moses knew how to do it, and Israel just saw it done.
The context of the situation at Mount Sinai is that Moses and the people were in a state of synesthesia, where it's actually said that they heard the images and saw the sounds.
And that's indicative of a psychological state of meditation.
And people have reported that in various different spiritual experiences in a wide range of traditions.
unidentified
Right, and I've had many experiences that have done meditation for 25 years.
And I was wondering, is there a number or something where I can get your work?
Okay, well, the best and easiest way is if you can get up on the internet, we have a website.
It's the normal prefixes and then www.meru, M-E-R-U, MaryEdward Ray GunnUpside.org, O-R-G, or nonprofit, so we get an org designation.
And you can write to us for introductory information on our work, which is not about pyramids and is mostly about the alphabet and the text of Genesis, but we'll send you an introductory packet.
We're Merrill Foundation, M-E-R-U, P-L Box 503, 503, and that's in Sharon, S-H-A-R-O-N, Sharon, Massachusetts.
If people want to order our material as listed on the website or want a free number that can be relayed to us for information, you can dial 888-422-MERU.
And I go into a deep, long period of thought every time I have a conversation with you, and tonight has been no exception.
So I want to thank you for being with us, and we will have you back yet again, no doubt, because as you mentioned, the audience reacted en masse, and I'm sure we'll get that again.