Art Bell and Richard Hoagland debate NASA’s downplaying of the 1997 Mir collision, where a cargo ship punctured its hull, causing rapid tumbling (up to 10 revolutions/second) and unreported power failures. Hoagland dismisses plutonium fears on Cassini but warns about Titan IV rocket risks, while storm chaser Lan Lamphere shares Mach 25 UFO footage near Oklahoma storms, confirmed by a second chaser. Callers link ancient Hohokam ruins, silent black triangles over Selfridge Base, and unexplained desert ships to possible extraterrestrial or advanced human activity. Bell ties recent boomerang-shaped UFOs in Phoenix/Las Vegas to broader patterns, suggesting society will face seismic shifts—whether from space anomalies, government secrecy, or unanswered cosmic questions—before 2000. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high deserts of great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these time zones.
Stretching from the Hawaiian and Taishan Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
Well, an extremely interesting day in more ways than one.
Most of you by now must be well aware of the Russian Mir space station's collision with a cargo craft during a manual docking exercise, underline manual.
The man was doing it.
It slammed into one of the solar arrays and actually opened a hole in the main hull, at which point the astronauts and cosmonauts, astronaut and cosmonauts, began to hear a hissing sound and had to close off a whole section of mirror.
There's been a rather sharp, severe fall in electrical supply, and we're not exactly sure what the status is of Mir right now.
I can probably tell you more than you're hearing on CNN.
I can tell you that the gyrodines that keep the mirror in the proper attitude are only apparently functioning during the period of time that Mir is in light and has quite a bit of electrical input from what they do have remaining of the solar arrays.
I can also tell you that you can hear Mir if you want to.
I listened to them during two earlier passes today, and my wife, incredibly, heard a third pass after 6 o'clock Pacific time tonight.
Mir can be heard on VHF at 143.625.
That's 143.625.
Now it may be that the farther reaches of my voice out in the islands may yet hear a pass tonight or two.
And while generally what I heard earlier today on two passes and my wife on a third was all in Russian, as the afternoon wore on, it became apparent that they were extremely tired and stressed, and that's what you could hear in their voice.
My guess is that we are not being told the whole truth.
Now, why, for example, do you think I might believe that?
Do you remember the fire they had on Mir?
Do you remember how the officials insisted at the time that the Mir fire was minor, easily controlled, short-lived, all that?
Do you remember that?
And I told you then that you were not getting the straight poop.
And I don't think you are now.
As a matter of fact, the New York Times in breaking news, which I think we pulled off MSNBC, said, only now, this is Associated Press, folks, only now with astronaut Jerry Leineger's recent return from Mir is another terrifying story emerging about the fire last February.
The fire raged, he said, raged for 14 minutes.
Flames shot out two feet, smoke choked passageways, and chunks of molten metal spewed from a burning canister blocking one of two routes to the Soyuz escape ship.
Six men and one lifeboat capable of evacuating no more than three, the situation had seemed too far-fetched for flight controllers to consider seriously until it happened February 23rd on the world's only space station, 250 miles above the Earth.
Actually, I think it's closer to 300.
The fire is receiving new scrutiny in light of Wednesday's collision between Mir and a docking cargo ship.
Both incidents highlight the increasingly precarious condition of the 11-year-old space station, designed, of course, to last only five.
But I told you then during that fire that it was very serious.
And in fact, I've got the actual wording here of the well, let me read you some of it.
Late that Sunday evening, Laniger was working at the computer when the master alarm sounded.
He'd heard countless alarms during his month aboard Mir, most set off by minor equipment failures.
Then came the cry, it's serious.
In the central passageway, Laniger saw dense smoke pouring from the X Vant module.
That's where a solid-fuel oxygen generating canister was ablaze.
Smoke began filling the entire station.
The four Russians, one German and Leineger, swiftly donned oxygen masks.
Laniger and two cosmonauts fought that fire.
The three others prepared a Soyuz for evacuation.
The second Soyuz was out of reach, beyond the fire.
Now, listen, remember back to when this occurred, and they said there was nothing to it, and I said there was, and people were sending me faxes saying, oh, you're just rolling this up out of control.
There's nothing serious going on.
It was a little tiny fire.
They got it out quickly.
Bull.
Continuing, quote, the flame was maybe two feet flying out of this thing.
It looked like sparklers going off and molten metal flying.
Laniger said, It almost looked like SRBs, solid rocket boosters on the space shuttle.
You almost can't look at them.
They're so bright.
It was a hot fire.
Mir's fire extinguishers were useless against the burning lithium.
The crew could only let the fire burn itself out.
They turned the extinguishers on the module's walls instead.
They knew if Mir's aluminum hull ignited and burned through, the station would decompress.
A quick get into your Soyuz vehicle situation at best.
Mir was out of contact with Russian mission control when that fire erupted, and Leineber was ready to use a ham radio to alert the Russians through the Johnson Space Center that, quote, an evacuation is a possibility.
Get ready for it, end quote.
He never made the call.
He had no time.
We needed, he said, another fire extinguisher, so I went for it.
The flames finally died down, but ten more minutes passed before the smoke began to clear.
Vapor from the fire extinguishers had condensed on pipes.
Ash was everywhere.
Miraculously, damage was minimal, and the crew suffered no serious injury.
But it was close.
Very close.
So I must tell you that the reason I read all that to you is because I warn when these things are occurring every time as I now warn you that this is more serious than they are telling you right now.
Now, if you monitor tomorrow, tomorrow morning, the signal on 143.625, you can listen to Mir directly.
They're broadcasting on VHF directly.
And you can listen to them.
143.625.
I want you to pay attention to something for me.
You will notice, as I noticed, and friends of mine have noticed, that I'm in contact with quite a number of people who are monitoring as well.
You will see a very sharp fluctuation in their signal strength, going from, at times, if you've got a near pass, 60 over 9, down to 0.
Now, what that means is they are tumbling.
This is not being reported in the press, but there can be no question about it.
I watched the signal strength myself, and it went from pegging the needle, as the phrase goes, in other words, as strong as you can get, to zero.
And it would do that cyclically.
Now, that indicates the space station is tumbling, and they're not telling you that.
Now, what does that mean?
Well, certainly it means that they would have a difficult time and may not be able to get control of that spacecraft, and nothing, of course, could dock to it.
Why they tried to dock with this cargo craft is in itself a mystery, because Mir at the time was not safe, and the docking control was done manually.
So, and we've got legislators trying to get Dan Golden, in the meantime, to certify in writing, and Dan Golden is not one of my favorite guys, but this is nuts, to certify in writing that it's safe.
In other words, they're saying, in effect to Dan Golden, here, put your name here and tell us it's safe.
And if something happens, it's your career butt.
And I don't think Dan Golden can do that at best.
Space is not a safe place to be.
For man, it's tentative.
And we do the best we can, but it's not safe.
And if I was Dan Golden, I'll be damned if I'd put my name on a piece of paper saying I guarantee they're going to be safe.
Because in my opinion, they are not at all safe in Mir right now.
Nor are they going to be.
It was designed the last five years, and it's a rickety, falling apart rattle trap.
So I think they're not at all safe.
And if you have the means to monitor, I suggest you do and listen to their somewhat over-deviated, very serious tones.
And if you're used to listening to them, you'll note the very stressful nature of their voices from Mir.
Anyway, in a moment, we'll get a bit of an update from Richard C. Hoagland.
Then I've got a number of other things for you and we will move into open lines.
unidentified
*Groan*
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25, 1997.
Here, let us go to Manhattan and see what update and information we can pull from the, no doubt, somewhat tired but nevertheless awake Richard C. Hoagland, Ingstrom Science Award winner, Visor de NASA, and Walter Cronkite at one time.
I woke up this morning and I couldn't believe my ears, and John Holloman was on, and I was about to do a two-hour program with a friend of ours, Mike Murphy, in Kansas City.
So I figured this morning I needed to spend two hours, and it was one heck of a two hours because I knew what was going on before I could get to you because, of course, you have different hours than Michael, and I had to wait until you were maybe conscious.
And then you told me that you had, just before you had gone to bed yesterday morning, as you were ending your show, you had heard the first flash that something was going on upstairs.
Well, I must say when I saw Holloman doing his report, and I have not really even tried to reach him today because I know that he's totally overwhelmed by this.
The only thing I could think of instantly, my first reaction was, what astonishing coincidence.
Because this accident happened at the same time, exactly, as the one-day delayed Mars Pathfinder burned.
One has heard of diversionary tactics, of course, but side-swiping a space station does reflect a certain rheumatic flair.
Question, who's going to notice a little glitch in the firing of a rocket on Pathfinder when the lives of three men are at stake in such gripping circumstances?
That's from somebody who signs himself CloudSifter.
This is, again, a tragedy because there are three men who are up there, I think, under very serious circumstances tonight.
I think I concur with you that their conditions are much more extreme than the media are being permitted to relate to us.
Not because someone's putting a hold on it, but because most of the people who are reporting the story, John accepted, just don't understand what it is like to live and maybe die in space.
I mean, they really don't understand the severity.
When you told me that you personally knew from your own data, from the short wave, that that signal is going up and down and in and out, that means the whole thing is tumbling, very gradually tumbling end over end.
That means you're going either in and out of an antenna pattern off the solar panels very rapidly, or the whole thing could not be rotating in 10 seconds.
In 1960, I'm going to reach back into ancient history here.
In 1965 or 1996, Neil Armstrong was in command of Gemini 8.
And they had launched successfully.
It was supposed to be the first docking with the Agena spacecraft, the upper stage that would be sent up a day before on the Atlas.
And it was a practice for the ultimate rendezvous and docking en route to the moon in Apollo many years later.
Over the Pacific, they successfully tracked and caught up with and docked with the Agena.
And then something happened, as you all now know, and one of the thrusters stuck open on the nose of the Gemini.
And the rates built up to something like 10 revs per second so fast that they were in danger of losing consciousness because of blood being forced away from their outer extremities, including their heads, their brains.
And Houston, of course, did not know what was going on.
They were out of communication range.
In those days, we didn't have Teedra satellites.
We had widely spaced ground tracking and chips.
So Armstrong very coolly, ultimately decided that the mission was lost unless they disengaged, and he fired his retro, his emergency RCS reaction control system, and then SEPT separated from the Agena and it went spinning off into the darkness.
Well, we almost lost two astronauts on that mission because of rapid rotation.
If what you're telling me is accurate, and of course I have no reason to believe it's not, the rates on Mir are very high to the point where I would begin to wonder about structural integrity because those panels, this thing is an incredible fragile butterfly.
It is not meant to rotate or tumble or spin.
It's meant to sit motionless, locked on the sun.
The other problem is if it has any significant rotation rates, if they're not able to control it with the rate gyros and the massive reaction wheels that were used similar to what we have in Skylab.
Now these have to be powered up and my understanding is that while Mira's in sunlight they are powering the gyrodines but while it's in the darkness without the battery reserve they are not powering the gyrodines and that's what keeps them in a stable attitude.
Which means they're doing this delicate dance between powering up the reaction control system, which is these spinning disks of matter, which basically, with action and reaction, cause the station to rotate opposite the direction of the spin of the wheels.
And they're trying to keep those panels facing the sun, but they don't have enough power on the night side pass from the batteries to do it, nor can they afford to do it.
So they're going back and forth, back and forth.
And it sounds very hairy, Art.
It really sounds like if I were projecting the fate of this mission, I would say in the next day or so, they're going to make the decision to bring them home.
I heard that there's a possibility that even if they decide to scuttle the mission, they might leave the commander or the commander of the mirror may choose to remain on board while the science officer and our American astronaut use Soyuz to escape.
I've got a number of other things I want to ask you about, but the obvious is, again, by facts, I'm getting a lot of facts, so obviously people are thinking about it.
If Mr. Hoagland's grand scheme is coming to fruition, then it may be possible the accident was not an accident, that in fact it was intended to remove any human presence from Earth orbit such that they, in quotes, could perform certain operations unseen.
Yeah, I mean, we're into the area of obvious, I mean, it's understandable that people would be speculating because, again, this is so stunningly coincidental.
We have been, I mean, I've been involved in space operations in one way or another, you know, at NASA or at CBS for 30, 30-some years.
And I can literally count on one hand, a couple of fingers on one hand, a dramatic moment in space history equivalent to what is going on upstairs tonight.
The Apollo, I'm sorry, the Gemini 8 mission, which I just recounted back in the mid-60s.
Sitting with an old friend of mine, Mark Kramer, at CBS.
We were the only folks on the floor because the mission was so boring, Apollo 13.
We're sitting there with our feet up.
We just ordered dinner in from one of New York's great restaurants, and we're watching the TV from Houston closed circuit.
CBS was not carrying the TV that night because people were bored with, oh-hum, going to the moon again.
And I watched Jim Lovell spin his tape recorder in Zero Gravity in the Lunar Module and play 2001 while the camera showed behind him the moon and out the other window the Earth in color.
An eerie, wondrous moment.
But I was one of the only ones seeing it because nobody was relaying it over the network, either our network or NBC or ABC, which were the only networks we had in those days.
And then, of course, that fateful, chilling call, Houston, we've had a problem.
But those were moments when people would leap to all kinds of possible speculations, yet they were very rare.
They were few and far between.
In the whole history of the space program, we've only had a couple of other moments where men trying to conquer the last frontier really were in danger, serious danger.
Tonight, we have another.
What strikes me as so remarkable about what's going on tonight Is that simultaneous with this very now visible manned drama playing out in the skies overhead, we have an unmanned drama taking place millions and millions of miles away, a few million miles away from the planet Mars.
We have a modern spacecraft, Pathfinder, which today, coincidentally, was supposed to carry out a very small but vital maneuver.
I have the NASA AIMS, I'm sorry, NASA Pathfinder website up.
I am plugged into something called the ground data system.
And I am reading data from June 23, 1997, day 174, at 447 GMT.
I am looking at uplink data, downlink data, whatever.
there is nothing in any other nassau website in any place that i or any of my colleagues am able to find all day long on the status of this crucial mars pathfinder burn no wonder why that would be and it's been twelve hours the the spacecraft was commanded your time this morning when they told us about the upload for the burn that certainly made a new city to go there so why not uh...
the results of it or at the fact that it you might not know the results because to know the results meaning how effective the engine firing work you have to have tracking have to have time to literally track it and see whether the course deviates from the plan course but the fact that there's no update you know burn successfully completed spacecraft turns back to earth lock that kind of thing and it's been over thirteen hours now since the burn was completed.
And the last data we can find anywhere on the net is from the 23rd, two days ago, I find just a tad suspicious.
I want to read you something, and I want to get your reaction to it.
So that's where Pathfinder is, folks.
In other words, we don't know a damn thing about the burn, one way or the other.
The data on the NASA website has simply stopped.
And from any source, we can gather nothing.
That is the status of Pathfinder.
Curious.
Despite enormous danger, huge expense, and a clear alternative solar power supply, the U.S. government is pushing ahead with the deployment of nuclear technology in space in October of 1997.
NASA plans, get this folks, to launch the Cassini probe to Saturn, carrying with it 72.3 pounds of plutonium-238 fuel, the largest amount of plutonium ever used in space.
The probe will sit atop a Lockheed Martin Belt Titan IV rocket.
The same kind of rocket has undergone a series of mishaps, including a 1993 explosion in California soon after takeoff that destroyed a $1 billion satellite system and sent its fragments falling into the Pacific Ocean.
Space News, the industry trade newspaper, reported that, quote, the high risk and cost of Cassini mission to Saturn troubled NASA Administrator Daniel Golden so much that he would cancel the program if it were not so important to planetary science, end quote.
Richard, just a question for you.
If 72.3 pounds of plutonium-238 were to somehow get scattered into the ocean or onto the Earth or both, what would the result be?
Well, there would be an increase in the cancer deaths due to the inhalation of plutonium oxide.
That's the primary concern.
That's a horrible worst-case scenario.
Now, let me tell you why that's not really, very realistic.
When I was with Gronkite, one of the things that we dealt with was the fact that during every Apollo mission, NASA launched on a Saturn V, which was the equivalent of a tactical atomic bomb in terms of 3,000 tons of fuel lifting off from Cape Canaveral.
The ALSEP experiments powered by radioactive plutonium, radioisotope thermoelectric generators, hung on the outside of the lunar module up under the, or inside the shroud below the command module as the rocket lifted off from the Cape.
And there obviously was, at that point, a concern that if the worst case scenario occurred, meaning an explosion, or if the spacecraft somehow inadvertently re-entered before leaving for the moon, that plutonium in those casks would somehow suffer the fate of the article that you just read.
And to seek to prevent that from happening, the Atomic Energy Commission, which is what the agency was then in charge of nuclear regulatory materials in this country, together with NASA conducted an exhaustive series of tests, many of which we saw in excruciating detail on slow-motion film and all kinds of other things.
They would take these casks and they would literally put them between two 70-ton diesel locomotives racing at 70, 80 miles an hour at each other.
And they would smash these locomotives into each other with the casks in between.
And nothing fractured.
Nothing broke.
Nothing was spilled.
So they have designed these fuel casks to handle this plutonium in a way that is so close to foolproof, given the actual experimental evidence, that I really don't think that's a serious problem.
And in counterpoint, I might remind everyone that during Apollo 13, because the astronauts looped around the moon in the lunar module and came home in it as a lifeboat, that ALCEP nuclear fuel cask on the outside stayed exactly where it was.
And it re-entered the Earth's atmosphere somewhere, I believe, southwest of New Zealand.
And NASA sent up Sniffer aircraft, which of course we were concerned with, looking for radiation after the entry.
And they found nothing.
They were very sensitive.
So to me, this is not a serious concern.
It is much more of another mechanism of attacking an agency that I think needs scrutiny and needs critique.
But on this issue, I do not think that the concern is valid given that we have a tremendous database and decades of proven performance, and the risk is so small as to be as close to zero as I can.
I'd like to know, because you see, on the Cassini mission, there is no other option.
You can't go to solar power.
You can see now in near, in Earth orbit, which is 20 times, 30 times closer to the Sun, no, no, I'm sorry, 10 times closer to the Sun than Saturn is, that you need massive amounts of power and solar cells, solar arrays just won't even hack it if you have a small problem.
Cassini, which is being launched as a compact spacecraft, could not unfurl enough solar panels to power it in any useful mission at Saturn's distance from the Sun.
So you're really limited to nuclear power unless, and this is a very important unless, unless you bring online hyperdimensional technologies such as were demonstrated on Good Morning America.
So I would prefer, if Dan Golden is really serious, to have him sit down with us or with you or with Gene Maloff or whatever and discuss real space power, which is non-contaminating, which is infinite, which could power any number of missions and do all kinds of neat things.
And I don't think that's going to happen in a short period of time.
Well, let me just continue a little bit with what I've got here and see how you react to it.
Let's see.
I'm trying to get the.
Here we go.
Chief Scientist Francis Cordova acknowledges that the Titan IV does not have a 100% success rate and admits that using it for Cassini is, quote, truly putting all your eggs in one basket, your 18 instruments on one firecracker, she says.
Quote, we can't fail with that mission.
It would be very, very damaging for the agency, to say nothing of the Earth and the life on it if something goes wrong.
Plutonium has long been described by scientists as the most toxic substance known.
It is so toxic, according to Dr. Helen Cannecott, founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility, that less than one millionth of a gram is a carcinogenic dose.
One pound, if uniformly distributed, could hypothetically induce lung cancer in every person on earth.
Well, of course, it would not be uniformly distributed.
It would be focused at the site of the disaster.
And most of the concerns that I have seen are not concerns expressed during the launch.
They are concerns expressed because of the trajectory which is being designed by the spacecraft engineers to bring Cassini back around near the Earth for a kind of a powered swing-by out to Saturn, a kind of a gravity assist maneuver.
And concern has been raised that NASA may miss, that they may target it too close to the Earth, and instead of missing the Earth and making a kind of a screaming left-hand turn and being tossed into the outer solar system, it may re-enter.
That's been the concern that I have seen.
In which case, if that were to take place and the fuel cask were to rupture or burn through or any of the other scenarios, you would, yes, have plutonium in a streak across the skies of wherever the entry point was located.
The fact of the matter is that we have had comparable amounts on the most catastrophic disaster we've experienced in the space age, which is Apollo 13, when that plutonium on that lunar module re-entered at 25,000 miles per hour over the Pacific and nothing was found.
Well, what I was trying to say earlier is that we had actual human beings calling NASA headquarters and Ames and JPL on the phone trying to get press representatives, public affairs officers, to answer the simple question, did it work?
And the fact that people like John Holloman and others are totally tied up and now preoccupied by forthrightly, I mean, they definitely should have their concerns is the safety of these three men.
The fact that, I mean, I didn't even feel in good conscience I could call Holloman and say, why don't you give JPL a call and find him a Pathfinder?
Because I know as a news person that his priority had to be with the lives of those three men, and frankly, I would not, we could find that out ourselves, except nobody was answering the phones.
And what I think is going on in the most non-conspiratorial light is that when space is like a family, you know, even in the good old days during the Cold War, we and the Russians and the other space programs were much closer than was publicly acknowledged.
There is a camaraderie of spirit.
There is a respect for people who risk their lives for knowledge.
And the cosmonauts and the astronauts have always had tremendous respect for each other.
That percolates down through the whole system.
So all of NASA is grappling with, in whatever function that they can grapple, with the problem potentially of bringing Mike Foley home and the other guys home and potentially solving this.
And I can see an awful lot of talent that normally would have been available to, let's say, run the numbers on Pathfinder's Burn suddenly and logically and naturally being co-opted to this more pressing problem just because they want to help.
When I was at the Cape during the launch of Paula Soyuz, which was the 1975 mission after Skylab, where Deke Slayton was in command and we went up and rendezvoused for the first time with the Russians, I was at Cape Canaveral and I got an extraordinary opportunity to meet the Russian poet Yeftoshenko and to see the actual spacecraft that the Russians had brought over to Cape Canaveral.
And the thing that struck me were two things.
One is the rivets on the outside.
And two, it was so cramped inside with valves and plumbing and pipes and all that that one of our guys, Tom Stafford, said, look, he says, I'll rendezvous with it, but I'll be damned if I'll go up in it.
Lou Friedman from the Planetary Society was on CNN as you were coming on the air on radio tonight, and he was being interviewed, and he made some very appropriate remarks about It is a testimony to the backups and the brute force nature of the Russian space technology.
You know, it's almost like one of those John Cameron Swayze commercials takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
I mean, our spacecraft can't be banged around and hit on the side and bounced from one end of the cosmos to the other and still function, just keep people alive.
This thing is sturdy, it's robust.
If it fails, it won't be because the Russians haven't been brilliant in designing and over-designing and over and over and over-designing.
It's because it's old, it's aging, and it's being put to a punishment it was never designed for.
And I think that we have to view this as part of a larger possibility.
All right.
And I'll leave everyone on this thought.
It is conceivable, in fact, it is something we have to think about, that the accident today was not anything internally directed, but in fact something that happened for external reasons.
That in fact we are not being given the straight story on the accident, that maybe something else occurred up there.
In which case, the space program as a whole is under attack.
And what I saw from Sensenbrenner is a simultaneous ground attack on NASA, together with the very hard story that we're seeing overhead.
If that all happens, I will remind everyone that on the reverse speech of Savage and Billard, there is a strange statement on your website, on our website regarding NASA being killed, NASA under attack.
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
It's alright, it's coming up.
We gotta get right back to where we started going Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started going It started wrong Oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh The day it showed me, when you first came my way, I said no one could take your place.
Get hurt.
Premier Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
We're covering the collision on Mirror, which appears to be more serious than the media, CNN, and others are telling you right now.
If you wish to monitor Mirror for yourself, 143.625 megahertz will enable you to do so.
So if you have a scanner, even with a short antenna, tomorrow beginning at about 10 o'clock through, oh, I don't know, 2 or so, 3 in the afternoon, you will hear a pass.
Listen closely during that pass.
They'll be speaking Russian.
What you want to be listening for is a rapid increase and decrease in signal strength, which I observed today along with others.
Now that would indicate that the Mir space station is tumbling, which is not being reported in the news.
The situation is probably far more serious than they're actually reporting.
But you never know.
You really never know.
What we do know, though, is that that minor fire that was reported on Mir some time ago was not, in fact, minor at all, raged for 14 minutes and actually burned until it burned out.
And the damn fire nearly caught the hull on fire.
It was extremely serious.
And at the time, of course, they did not tell us about it.
So we will simply continue to monitor this story.
They do have the Soyuz spacecraft, and they can, if they have to, I guess, return to Earth.
We hope.
Now, John Holloman earlier in the day briefly mentioned that because of the power problems, they might have actual trouble powering up Soyuz.
Could we get a spacecraft in place to do a rescue if we had to?
Yes, but it would take days.
They'd probably have to bring Atlantis out and prepare it for launch.
So all day long, I have been carefully monitoring and talking to a lot of people about what's going on at Mir.
And we are not, as you might imagine, we are not getting the entire story.
In a moment, I've got kind of an unusual story for you, and I'll give you a brief description of the outline of how I got on to this fellow in a second.
unidentified
*Gunshot*
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM I got a fact from a fellow broadcaster who wishes not to be named this morning with regard to a company called Wind Chaser.
Wind Chaser.
Yes, that's it.
A Storm Chaser.
Now, this man apparently, according to my facts, taped a storm a few weeks ago, and later in examining the tape in slow motion and freeze frame, he discovered an unknown object in the sky.
The ABC-TV affiliate in Oklahoma City, KLCO Television, showed the tape on Tuesday night.
The object is cylindrical, traveling at an estimated speed of 9,000 miles an hour.
It traveled more than seven miles in less than two seconds.
The Storm Chaser is Lan, I'm going to take a shot at this.
Lamphir.
Lan Lamphir.
And as a matter of fact, I'm hoping that my webmaster is listening.
Keith, are you?
There is apparently a still rendition of this photograph at www.windchaser.com.
Now, I'll confirm that with Lan here in a moment.
www.windchaser.com.
So I'd like to get a link into that if I could, Keith, if you happen to be up and listening.
Lan, back in the 60s at Amarillo Air Force Base in Texas, when that base existed, a very good friend of mine, now a weatherman down in Lake Charles, Louisiana, Lynn Whitlake and myself, used to chase tornadoes, many of them right all the way up into Oklahoma, you know, severe thunder cells, waiting for tornadoes, and we caught many.
And at that time, took 8mm stuff that we sold to local TV stations, and we did this in a Volkswagen.
How we ever lived through that, I'll never know, but it was a great passion of mine.
I hate to say it, but I understand exactly what you're saying.
How long have you been chasing storms?
unidentified
I've been chasing storms for about seven years now, off and on.
We've just in and out of Alabama, where I'm originally from, actually where my mother lives, we put it that way.
And she has a disease called lupus erythematosus.
And I've been with her for a long time.
And we decided to, my family, I have four children and my wife, Melissa, who I love dearly, decided to move to Norman for Wind Chaser, the company based out of Gatsden, Alabama.
We moved out here to catch our own video, actually, for a movie that we're putting together based on Storm Chasers.
It was a very nice, very tight RFD coming into this storm where it's a rear-flanking downdraft.
It was punching into this mezzo.
And we were on Highway 53, about five miles west of Loco, Oklahoma.
Clear as a bell, real nice.
We had a really nice queue or cumulus going up in front of us.
The RFD was kicking in, so I decided to set the still camera up and the time-lapse camera up on it.
And so we did.
You'll have to excuse me.
I'm a little sleepy.
I've had phone call after phone call after phone call after this is aired.
Anyway, we set the film camera up on it.
We were doing time-lapse photography on it.
And I decided we had just purchased a brand new Panasonic AGEC1.
This is basically a mini camcorder.
It shoots a DV60 film.
It's above broadcast quality.
It's basically a beta SP is what it is.
Set it up on it.
We just started rolling in real time on it.
Had a 0.5mm lens on the front of a 60mm lens, which kind of brought it up to the wide-angle lens.
I zoomed in a little bit.
I was Just filming this mezzo, I was actually arguing with Tom Filiagi, Matt Moreland, and Jared Bostic, a dear friend of mine, as to what the storm was going to do.
During the process of me arguing with them, it just dawned on me, as you'll hear on the video when this is released, that they have not seen the tornado forming to the right into the front of the mezzo as of yet.
And it dawned on me that once it had dawned on me, I looked at them and I said, what are you talking about?
And he's like, I'm talking about that mezzo.
And I said, well, I'm talking about that tornado.
And what you hear in the background is Matt Moreland, who is a very educated storm chaser.
He's a trained meteorologist.
He used to work at National Severe Storms Lab.
He screams, oh my God, and he runs and he grabs his camera.
And we just continue to talk about this and let the cameras roll.
Two weeks later, I'm helping a friend of mine named Charles Edwards, who owns and runs Cloud9 Tours here based out of Norman.
And I had helped him with a Japanese film crew that had come in and booked the last two weeks of his tour season and was shooting a documentary for Japanese television on Tokyo based on the movie Twister.
They were kind of doing a parody of the movie Twister.
So they actually rented helicopters and did flyby.
So it was rather interesting.
We got a taste of Hollywood doing that.
Anyway, they had taken off to the Gerald, Texas, which I felt very bad about.
And what appeared to be a baseball at first had, you know, looked like something had been thrown in front of the camera lens flashed across the screen.
Anyway, he looks at me and this white object appeared to be white at the time, flashed from right to left, and it went into the hell core.
I'm thinking, what in the world is this?
And I said, well, rewind that, Mike.
And he rewound it.
And we looked at it about two more times.
Well, right off the bat, I was offered a very large sum of money for this tape, and I declined.
And I got up, for personal reasons, I declined.
I got up and I ejected the tape out of the TV, which was, you know, it's one of these VCR TV combination things.
Sure.
And the tape popped out.
I grabbed it.
I turned around and I thanked everyone for inviting me and that I was not interested in selling my video at the time.
And I politely left and went home.
I looked at the tape on my VTR and ran it back frame by frame by frame by frame and noticed what this thing was doing and realized that it wasn't a piece of debris.
It wasn't a baseball.
It wasn't a cowl.
It wasn't a desk.
It wasn't a deep freezer.
It wasn't a lot of things.
And I looked at it.
I finally come to the conclusion that I didn't know what it was.
And I threw my hand in my face and my hands.
It just kind of rolled off on my right side and fell on the floor and said, oh my God.
What Wind Chaser does, if a scientific research group or an independent research group or a corporation needs to do any type of research on weather for any private type of industry, for example, a remote sensing unit for tornado, Things like that.
We go out, we can be contracted to go out and film with a trained meteorologist to gather data, to gather the information that the company needs.
At the same time, Wind Chaser films this information, compacts it, puts it together in a presentable package, and then we give it to the company.
Yeah, your life is really exciting enough without UFOs.
unidentified
Yeah, I really had no idea.
I have never given the thought UFOs.
A UFO is defined as an unidentified flying object.
I have never even called, and this is on the record, I've never called this object a UFO simply because I do not know if it's flying or if it's falling.
Can you imagine a piece of ice entering our atmosphere with all the tiles that the shuttle has on it, okay, to protect it from heat and protect it from all the velocity stresses that's placed on the object, I mean, the space shuttle itself.
Is there a still photograph at www.windchaser.com?
unidentified
There sure is.
There's actually two photographs, and if you click on the photographs, it will give you an enlargement and a detailed display of what happens in the video, which is not released at this time.
The reason it's not released, and I'll hurry this.
Art Bell I would like to thank my fellow unnamed broadcaster for telling me about Lan Lamphere and what he has done.
He is a storm chaser, and he has taken a picture of this very bizarre object, apparently actually a series video, 30 frames as he points out per second, about 49 frames, something over one second, with then an estimated speed of the object of about 18,000 miles an hour crossing the screen.
And so you did want a couple of grabs for video or for stills?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
I have a 166 Cyrix, I believe that's how you pronounce it, Cyrix computer that we load a day, or we have a video card in.
And I would like everyone in the world to know that from day one of this investigation, from the day that I saw this, I got on the website.
I've contacted Jeff Sanyo.
I've contacted John Lewis at the University of Arizona, Dr. Hubbard, excuse me, Hubble, Dr. Hubble, which I'm still waiting for them to reply to, but I'm sure they're probably going to look at this.
I'd like to determine whether or not it was a meteor, which I really don't think it was, because at this speed, at Mach 25, this thing, at the estimated distance that we were from it, and I have some very exciting news for you that was brought to my attention earlier tonight.
I'd like to pass that along to you just a moment.
We're estimating a mile from us, a mile to maybe two miles at the very most.
May I ask you about what degree above the horizon it was?
unidentified
Okay, the camera is looking just about due northeast into this wall cloud and this mezzo, the RFD and the tornado that's forming in front of us.
I would say the degree is, well, let's do it this way.
I can't really clock off the degrees because I really don't know what that would be, and I really hate to screw the investigation up or muddy the water in any way.
Let's say three-quarters of the way up from the ground, this object appears on the screen.
It appears, the first frame that it appears in is actually just half of the object.
So you can actually see it coming onto the screen.
And then it travels, it becomes occluded behind a scud cloud very near the meso, mesocyclone that is.
And it seems or appears to take a left-hand bank.
Now, I'm not an expert on this, but looking at the video frame by frame by frame, which I did for about four days before I even talked with anybody about this, it appears to take a left-hand turn.
It appears to take a left-hand turn, nosedive slightly.
That was from a particular OU student that he figured all the numbers out and sent me an email, and I mailed him back.
And I was very appreciative.
I've been very appreciative of every email that I have received because it has led me in the direction to really go there to find out what this is about.
There's something when NASA contacted me about this.
I actually thought about contacting you about this, but I didn't know where to begin.
But tonight, KOCO, Channel 5 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Cherokee and Cherokee Ballard, who is an anchor for their station, as well as Scotty Travis, who I have become very good friends with, they are the most fantastic people in the whole world.
They have allowed this thing to go and allowed me to take it in the direction that I wanted to take it in without mudding the water, so to speak, on the video, because I really did not know what we had.
I really just wanted to find out what we had here.
Did they present it on television without snickering?
unidentified
No, yeah, absolutely they did.
Man, they have been the greatest people in the whole world.
KOCO is the most fantastic group of people I've ever met in my life.
They are just absolutely wonderful.
Cherokee and Scotty have gone to major, major extents, almost to the point where they're actually getting fired from their jobs to go to bat for me on this and what I believe to be the truth.
And now let me back up here and say something about the truth.
I wanted to present this in the light that because I didn't really know what I had.
I never wanted to say it was a UFO because of the stigmatism and the stereotypical bullcrap that goes along with it.
No, I know.
I mean, you have people who are a scientist, and then you have people who are a semi-scientist, and you have people who are total quacks.
But I want to tell you about the truth about this.
Since day one, I was on two radio broadcasts this morning, about 7.30.
I went to bed at 5 o'clock this morning, so I'm very tired.
And they called me at 7.30, and they were like, hey, Land, can you do this?
I'm like, no problem.
I'll sit back and talk with you about this.
And I told them, and I'm telling you and telling the rest of your viewing or listening audience, that since day one, I have dedicated myself 100% to finding out the truth about this matter.
To the point, here's where we go to NASA.
After NASA contacted me, after another government affiliation contacted me, which I can't go there, I have given my word on it, and I'm just not going to go there.
NASA contacted me and I told NASA that I would deliver this tape to them for evaluation.
Let's just forget about that at this point and say, I'm not going to give this thing to NASA until the private market, until the $2,000 that I have spent has gone out there and we've gotten documents and paperwork and we have got letters and reports back with people's names and signatures on them, which I'm going to post on my web, by the way.
Yeah, went way out of their way to suggest they don't investigate that kind of stuff anymore.
unidentified
Well, that's cool because I happen to know for a fact they do because they contacted me about it.
Okay, that's the bottom line.
I know for a fact they do.
I don't know why they contacted me.
I don't even know how they got my cell phone number because there's only like six people on this planet that have it.
Okay, and that's the truth of the matter.
And I'm being very liberal.
I'm actually probably putting myself in a lot of danger of even talking about this.
But I mean, I'm just saying it.
There, there it is.
The people need to know.
The bottom line is I told NASA that I would give this video to them after the private review was done, after I have spent my money, and KOCO has helped me.
They're actually helping me with video analysis, so forth and so on, into this subject.
Because, you see, at first we didn't have the one tape with this object on there.
As of tonight, right before airing time of KOCO's 10 o'clock news, another Storm Chaser came forward and said, hey, I've got that image on my tape.
But again, I go back to my statement about the Roswell News Conference where they said no government agency is interested in this kind of thing anymore, especially the Air Force.
And moreover, you're giving me first-person testimony here.
unidentified
Yeah, and I'm about lit while I'm doing it.
But, you know, I'm telling the truth about it.
I don't have any reason to lie.
I've been absolutely dedicated 100% to giving the public.
There's some guy out in the middle of Texas, on the other side of La Mesa, okay, Texas, out in the middle of nowhere, near the New Mexican border, that doesn't know me from Adam's house cat and has an interest in this thing, okay?
And since day one, I have felt a deep obligation to give whoever it is, whether they're a rapist or a murderist in prison, which is very unfortunate, to someone around the world, whoever it is, wherever, whatever circumstance, give them the truth.
I have worked very hard in making sure the truth is there.
All right, let me back away from the object and the stuff you've got on film for just one second and ask you a more general question.
Since you're a storm chaser, you obviously pay a lot of attention to the weather.
There is a general perception, and I certainly have it, Land, that we're undergoing some sort of basic or profound or cyclical change in our weather patterns.
And I wonder if you would agree with that or disagree with that or how you feel about that as somebody who studies the weather.
unidentified
Well, that's a very difficult question to answer.
I mean, you can go back into the Almanacs and find bad times.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, the dinosaurs have bad times.
I think my personal opinion, I'll give you my personal opinion, okay, Arc.
Sure.
My personal opinion is that the planet can only take so much.
I'm not a UFOologist.
I don't study UFOs.
I've never even given consideration to UFOs.
I don't deal in this.
This is not my area of specialties.
I'm a storm chaser and a director for a film crew.
That's what I do.
I pull up the SBC, the Severe Storms Prediction Center, every day, their website, and I look at their daily broadcast.
They do a fantastic job, but nobody's perfect.
I look at the National Severe Storms Lounge data.
Nobody's perfect.
They all are doing their very, very best to do their jobs correctly.
These are trained scientists and colleagues as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, I'm not even near, nowhere near the scale they are as far as intelligence and their knowledge.
But as being self-taught to read models, self-taught to find the storms, there's a lot of those guys that are sitting up there who haven't got a clue as to where a storm's going to form, and I can go find it before they can.
That's my job.
And then to shoot it correctly, to make sure I got the correct backlighting.
The last tornado I was on was on Highway 9, about 9 miles south of Norman, actually.
And it was moving towards Norman.
As a matter of fact, I talked with my wife on the cell phone, and the sirens were going off while I was talking with her.
And I was telling her that I was behind this tornado, and it was the tornado that hit Purcell.
At this time, it was forming near Blanchard, and it was a great big long white tube, and I was right in the back of it, less than a quarter mile from it.
Well, see, the reason it's white is because most tornadoes that you see that are black is because the person is usually in front of them.
Therefore, you have the contrast of the sun coming through and the density of the molecules in the atmosphere and the tornado, the wind velocity is the whole nine yards.
I was guessing that debris picked up and dirt would begin to darken it, too.
unidentified
Yes, it will.
Yes, it will.
And then you have like monster wedges, you know, who are they're going to be dark anyway.
There's so much debris, dirt, and just all kinds of stuff, rock, you know, tree limbs, all kinds of stuff, and it just makes them really dark.
Big wedges usually form because of the moisture content in the air is so high.
The dew point is so high that it condenses the air to begin with and just, you know, condenses it all real fast.
So these really wide tornadoes are basically, there's a core and then there's the windfields, and those windfields are usually an indication that that's where the windfield is, what I'm trying to say, that's where the windfield is, but the air condenses so rapidly that it forms these scud clouds.
Basically, it's just scud trash, and it makes this big tornado.
The first two hours of the program have been consumed in order with a discussion of Mir and the collision on Mir and a comparison of the information we're getting now about Mir's condition with a short-term recollection of the fire on Mir that at the time they insisted was minor and was not minor at all.
Do not, I repeat, do not trust the information you're getting from the major media on the condition of Mir.
If you wish to monitor Mir yourself and you have the ability, it's on 143.625 megahertz.
143.625 megahertz.
And you can listen to the Russians.
And you can also listen very carefully for a changing signal strength.
Earlier in the day, today, it was varying between 0 and complete saturation, or 60 over 9.
And that would indicate the spacecraft is tumbling.
Something they have not been reporting.
So we're keeping a very careful eye on what's going on with Mir.
And we discussed that and other items with Richard Hoagland in the first hour.
In the second hour, Lan Lamp Fear, who is a professional storm chaser, told us a story, quite a remarkable story, I must say, of something he captured on video while he was filming a tornado.
He captured something traveling across the sky at Mach 25.
Now, there are still photographs available of this object, thankfully.
He's put them on his website.
I'm still unable to reach Keith to get a link up, but we will do that.
It is www.windchaser.com.
That's www.windchaser.com if you would like to get a look.
So the past hour was consumed with a discussion of that and what land does, which is kind of crazy.
Anybody who chases storms has got to be a little bit crazy, but it's a compulsive kind of thing.
And as you know, I did it for some years.
Compulsively.
All right, we're going to get to open lines and a reaction to some of that and whatever else you want to talk about shortly.
unidentified
And...
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25, 1997.
Well, there are a lot of people who feel that HAARP is contributing to the weather difficulties.
I tend to doubt that they are presently.
They're not at power levels that but you never know.
They intend to go to 100 billion watts eventually.
And that nearly everybody agrees.
No, many people agree.
Let me modify that.
May have an effect on our weather or could.
unidentified
Also, I think that they're trying to confuse us with the Roswell situation.
Every time they go to talk about what happened over Arizona, they bring up the Roswell incident and they're giving the false stories of how it was the weather balloons and the dummies.
I talked to a very interesting young lady yesterday on KERN radio.
I did an interview at about 12.30 or so in the afternoon.
And we were discussing Roswell, and she was saying, of course, she had not seen the entire news conference, but only the network reporting of it that night.
And she said, I buy it straight out.
I buy what the Air Force says.
I said, how can you buy it?
She said, well, I accept things on face value, I believe was her phrase.
And a very nice young lady, but I said, I can't believe that anybody who really saw any substantial portion of that news conference could buy it on face value.
How could you possibly do that?
The film and the evidence that they showed to substantiate the fact that its case closed on Roswell did not even begin until six years after 1947.
I mean, nobody should be buying that on face value.
And again, as I said yesterday, and I really mean it, I felt so sorry for that Colonel who had to go out and face people and tell them the impossible and then try to stand there and defend it.
And basically it boiled down to, well, read the book.
Read the book.
Well, Colonel, can you account for the six-year difference here?
Well, actually, no, I can't.
It was time compression.
Time compression.
Going to remember that answer for the rest of my natural life.
They've had all kinds of statements that at one time or another were made.
For example, they said that if they could not get these gyros going again, that would force the astronaut and cosmonauts to abandon Mir because they could not keep it in a stable condition and presumably then would not be able to get resupplied or repaired.
So I'm not really sure what's going on.
The only thing I know for sure is that we're not likely getting the whole story.
unidentified
No, I believe we're not either.
Also, I had a comment about the gentleman that you spoke to that saw the object in the storm.
Last night we had a terrible storm here in Kansas.
We had wind gusts of up to 70 miles an hour.
And the strange thing was right before the storm hit, and I didn't really pay attention to it until I heard him speaking tonight.
I had seen, I had just went to bed right before the storm hit, and I was looking out my window, and I noticed that there were three blowing, I guess, I don't know what you call them, objects.
They were about the size of a softball.
And at first I thought that they were fireflies, and I thought, no, they're too close to the house and too large to be fireflies.
And they were right in front of a tree in my front yard.
About 15 minutes later, a limb came down off this tree and nearly hit my house, missed it by about four feet.
And I mean, this limb was probably 15 feet long and just huge, as big around as my body was.
But it just really shocked me when I heard him talking about an object in a storm.
And I wonder if anyone else has ever seen any objects associated with storm activity.
I assume, even with all the risks attendant with the assumption, that my audience is basically mature, can stand to hear something that they have to digest and decide for themselves whether it's bull or real.
And so I present things that way.
And I guess that accounts for one reason that the program has done as well as it has.
And if more people in the media would begin to do it, the American people would begin to appreciate them more.
unidentified
Okay, and the other thing I wanted to say was I'd like your opinion on my thought because it's really bothered me, is because of what I've just said, you know, people are saying, well, why does the government do this?
Why do they keep, you know, not giving us the truth?
Where I'm coming from with, you know, I don't think it's all the government fault, it's all the government fault on not producing the real McCoy on what's going on as far as the UFOs and extraterrestrial life.
I honestly think a big majority of the problem is the religious aspect.
If, in fact, religiously, they have to face the fact that we are not alone, it could change the whole concept of religion on the whole planet.
And worse yet, if there was even a hint that those people who would prove we're not alone might have had something to do with our getting here in the first place, there would be a real rebellion.
unidentified
Right.
And where I come from is at the time of Jesus, there was the Roman gods.
And after the time of Jesus and after like a hundred-year period or a couple hundred years, the collapse of the gods of that time happened.
And in my mind's eye, I honestly believe that what's happening now is the religious aspects is actually holding the government aspects in check.
And I don't know for sure that I'm going to make it all the way to Fairbanks yet.
I don't know what part of the schedule I've got with regard to Alaska.
I'm going to be finding out about that shortly.
I'm going to be on one leg of the trip, and I'm not sure altogether yet which leg that is going to be.
But I sure am looking forward to seeing Alaska again.
It has been altogether too long for me.
And once you've been to Alaska, as they say, I guess you can take an Alaskan out of Alaska, but you cannot take Alaska out of an Alaskan, and that's an absolutely true statement.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
How you doing?
Okay.
Well, I've been listening to your program here for, well, about the last three, four days.
Okay, well, the Roswell thing in 1947, who's to say when that craft crashed, that our government might be rebuilding these crafts and using them for whatever, you know.
This backs up everything we've been saying from today's, well now yesterday's, USA Today.
It's entitled End of Story.
Hardly.
With unwarranted optimism, the U.S. Air Force titled its latest report on claims that aliens crash-landed in New Mexico in 1947.
Quote, the Roswell Report, case closed, end quote.
Case closed, they wish, italicized in wish.
This case is about as closed as a vast desert where it must be admitted some pretty strange things occurred.
Lights seen, bodies viewed, wreckage inspected.
Ironically, because it was meant to lay the matter to rest, the Air Force report released Wednesday gives Roswell more pizzazz than ever.
The Pentagon's latest and most final conclusion is that witnesses saw dummies that have been dropped from balloons.
But get this, the dummies were dropped six to twelve years after the witnesses say they saw the corpses of small creatures, to which officials merely shrug that memories from the 1940s and 50s have, quote, consolidated.
Don't you like that word?
Now, instead of a compression, they're talking about consolidation.
God, these people have contempt for us.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a piece of the article from the USA today commenting on the Air Force's brilliant, absolutely brilliant press conference held the day before.
Now buried, by the way, with other news beneath what has occurred in space on Mir, a very, very serious collision.
And you can depend on one thing, we're not getting all the news about this collision.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
more somewhere in time coming up I can't exist out your miss your tender kiss.
Don't leave me this way.
Oh, baby, my heart is full of love at this time for you.
Now go down and do what you gotta do.
You started this fire.
You started this fire.
Premiere Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
From Mark in Milwaukee, Art, could you please repeat the information about the radio frequency and signals being transmitted by Mir?
Sure.
If you want to begin listening at about 10 o'clock a.m. Pacific time today and listen throughout the afternoon, you will hear several Mir passes on the following frequency, 143.625.
The voices you hear will be in Russian and kind of garbled.
And all I can tell you to do, unless you speak Russian, and I do have some friends that are interpreting Russian for me as best they can, what you want to listen for is the urgency and stress in the voice.
That's 143.6 or .625 or decimal.
That's VHF, folks.
And on the better passes, it does not take much of a radio.
A scanner will hear them just fine.
So if you want to participate in a bit of an experiment tomorrow, beginning at about 10 o'clock in the morning Pacific time, park a scanner or a VHF radio of some sort on that frequency.
And as I did today, you will hear Mir on each pass.
Now, you may hear them for a period of time ranging from a minute to up to 10 minutes, depending on the pass.
And there's one more thing I want you to observe for me.
One indication that Mir is tumbling would be that the signal is not steady.
In other words, as you have a satellite pass, you will acquire the signal.
It'll be weak, and it will generally slowly build to its strongest point.
And then as it heads toward the other horizon, it will begin to weaken.
That is the nature of satellite signals.
If the craft is steady, in other words, at a proper attitude.
Now, if the signal you hear constantly varies in strength from what we call pegging the needle, very strong when it is directly over you, to zero, you're going to want to time the difference between when the signal is strong and when it is weak.
And that will tell you the rough rotation or tumble of the spacecraft.
And this is, if now, only now, being reported by CNN.
It's something I noted earlier today.
And as I noted earlier in the program, they don't tell you the truth about these things.
So be very cautious about what you hear on CNN or anywhere else for that matter.
Because you remember the minor fire they had on Mir?
It wasn't minor at all.
It was very serious.
It was a fire that raged for 14 minutes and nearly caused the abandonment of Mir then.
They lied.
They lie.
So if you want to try and listen yourself, 143.625, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
This is Glenda in Roswell, where the dummies are trying to convince us that they dropped the dummies.
It comes from the National Association of Broadcasters, and it's the Marconi.
The Marconi.
Marconi is somebody, of course, that I greatly respect anyway, so I am particularly interested in the Marconi, and I'm very honored to be in the final five.
So we'll see what happens.
That won't be until, or at least we won't know until September.
You know how it goes, voting by program directors and managers and so forth, and then it is tabulated by the accounting firm, the same one that does the Oscars, I suppose.
And the results are not known until the NAB conference in New Orleans in September.
But we're probably going to go down there for it.
And either way, you know, winning or not winning, honestly, and I really do mean this, you know, it's always nice to win, but it's a real honor to be nominated, frankly, for it.
It's a very high honor.
National Association of Broadcasters is, as you know, the largest organization representing broadcasters in the country.
So there you have it.
Back to the lines we go.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hi, Arik.
Yes, sir.
unidentified
I was wondering if you were planning on opening your timeline ever again.
My wife and I were traveling out of New York State on the Palisades Parkway.
And it was a beautiful clear evening, about 11 o'clock at night.
And from Yonkers across the Hudson came a flash of light suddenly, and it stopped right at the edge of the Hudson River.
And the lights dimmed in the front.
The craft was facing west.
We were looking at it south.
We were heading south.
I saw a side view profile of it.
I saw it sitting there, motionless, right above the trees, my wife and I. What was the shape?
It was along, from the side view.
It was rectangular because I saw the flat black of the side.
And I couldn't, you know, it was just flat black.
The bottom of the craft, because of my perspective and where we were, just past the Geological Institute, the Government Institute on the Hudson River there, they were about a quarter of a mile behind us north.
And the craft, from the tops of the trees that were just below it, it seemed just below it, I thought it was much closer, but it was about a mile away because of the size of it.
I can still hear the New York, New Jersey, and you.
unidentified
Yes.
And then the craft stopped, and then it shot back towards us right along the Hudson River and went straight out over the ocean, over Manhattan Island, over Long Island, and then straight out.
And that is so typical of what so many million Americans have seen.
And then we have news conferences like the one they had at Roswell the other day.
It's not going to wash anymore.
A boomerang-shaped craft appeared north of Las Vegas the other Day.
In the middle of all this brouhaha about Phoenix and about Roswell, there was a major sighting near me.
I didn't see it, but many, many Las Vegans did.
And I must tell you, the number of sightings is increasing dramatically.
So it seems to me they're not going to be able to keep this at the chuckle point very much longer because there's a lot of people not laughing.
There's clearly something going on in our skies, and it's being photographed and videotaped by all kinds of people, including the professional we had on last hour, Lan, and others.
I mean, how long can the evidence be ignored?
How long will we continue to accept statements like Colonel Haynes made that, you know, we don't investigate those things anymore?
As Lan said, that's a pile of crap.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
I too want to confirm that it was the 27th that I wrote down in my notes for that time travel.
And he mentioned that he couldn't set off his anti-met or whatever to get himself back into orbit because he would take out the entire states of Arizona and California and other words, some sort of hyperdrive, whatever you want to call it.
Yeah, whatever.
So I was wondering if perhaps the meteor crater that we have is in fact a blast-off site.
You are, but you are consistent with what he said.
Thank you.
He said that were they to turn on the drive that they would normally use only once they were in a vacuum, that you would destroy a significant portion of any landmass below that blast.
And that's entirely reasonable to conclude if you had something that was operating with that kind of force generated by matter and antimatter, which would certainly be a significant step above nuclear power.
So you can imagine what the results would be.
All right, we're going to pause here at the top of the hour, and we're going to come back and continue for the last couple of hours of the show this morning with open lines and anything you want to talk about.
Listen, I want to warn you, or actually, yeah, warn you, I guess, that we have got David Oates doing reversals on Colonel Haynes.
David is hard at work at that on my request, and in all likelihood, if he's got them done, we'll have David on for a period of time Friday night with reversals on Colonel Haynes.
You know, the colonel who did the Roswell press conference?
That should be Friday night, Saturday morning, right here.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
tonight featuring coast to coast a.m.
from june twenty-fifth nineteen ninety seven the the the got a black magic She's coming in twelve thirty flights.
The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide you towards salvation.
I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words or ancient bellographers.
He turned to me as if to say, Prave boy, it's waiting there for you.
Gonna take the light to take me away from you.
There's something that a hundred men or more could ever do.
I miss the rain down in Africa.
Gonna take some time.
You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
Every boy she's waiting after you You're the king of life to drag me away from you There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do I've blessed the rains down in Africa I've blessed the rains down in Africa I've blessed the rains down in
Okay, well, obscurantism is a philosophy in which the derivation of the word would be obscure, I'm sure, would it not?
unidentified
Well, yes, it's stopping the spread of truth so that certain individuals have the truth and they can use that truth as power over the masses who they misinform purposely.
It's a bit more than that because, but I won't go into that, into the semantics of it.
But that's what the government has practiced.
Now, a lady who called earlier that said that there would be a terrible relash as far as all of the religions of the earth if the extraterrestrials were to display themselves.
Not only the religious, all of the major religions would be in jeopardy, but the monetary systems of the world as well, because these individuals would be able to provide gold, diamonds, from other places.
I also wanted, you just made a comment that the Earth would not be destroyed.
I haven't read you about the quickening.
But Nikola Tesla had information on how to tap into the natural vibratory frequency of the Earth and could crack the Earth and literally send it off of its course hurling into the Sun.
When a comet crashed into Jupiter two years ago, the second piece of the comet has a magnitude of hundreds of millions of times the magnitude of the bomb that was dropped in Hiroshima and left a mark larger than the planet Earth.
The one thing astronomy was unable to predict, though, was that that would break into about 21 pieces, I believe it was.
unidentified
Yeah, 19021.
And it was the second piece that had the largest impact.
But the repercussions, it takes light more than a half hour for us to have seen the actual occurrence because the speed of light is 186.2,000 miles per second.
So it took over half an hour for us to see the light of that.
Now, Jupiter...
I'm trying to make a point that the shock waves from that explosion, from that comet attacking Jupiter, not attacking, but exploding now, much of those shockwaves have been entering the Earth's atmosphere for the last couple of months.
Like a stone thrown into the center of a pond, the ripples extend outward.
There's no question about that.
Now, there's certainly lots of room for argument about whether those shock waves, as they hit Earth, you know, there was some speculation about setting off some sort of chain reaction, vibratory response on Earth that would shatter things, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.
A more interesting argument is what would have occurred had those, had Shoemaker-Levy 9, even one piece of it, crashed instead of into Jupiter, into Earth, you know, we'd be Somebody's future petroleum.
And maybe that's the way things go.
Maybe it's a race to see if we can develop enough technology to prevent something like that from occurring before we are turned into petroleum.
Or we can conclude their behavior was designed to actually cause more people to believe that something occurred in 1947.
And they are lying.
unidentified
I know, but I've got this feeling.
I've just got this really intense feeling, and I've had it for a couple of years, that sometime between now and probably 2000 or something, something's going to happen.
There's going to be undeniable proof, and they can't lie anymore.
Well, the only part of it I don't like is channeler.
I appreciate the call.
The only part of it I don't like is channeler.
I don't trust channeled information.
That is not to say, and I always catch a lot of flack for this, that channeling, some channeling is not real or that spirits speak through people who are living.
My only argument against channeling in general is that it affords too much opportunity for fraud.
That's always been my feeling about channeling.
I mean, I could sit here and I could give you, and I have done it, a great example of what I might sound like if I were suddenly channeling the Great Orb.
The Great Orb would begin speaking of prophecy in things to come.
And I could do that with, believe me, a very convincing voice.
And if I could do it, then I figure a lot of other people can do it too.
So it doesn't mean channeling isn't real.
It just means there's too damn much room for fraud.
You know, I mean, this guy really earned himself and the whole Air Force a whole new award.
I can envision it.
A parachute in gold, very nice, nice pair of wings, a guy with a fishing pole and a fish, big eyes, kind of bony, and underneath it, something fishy, 47 and 97.
Well, I'll tell you, we've got David Oates' reversals of the Colonel.
And it will be very interesting.
You can imagine it might go either way.
I have no way of knowing right now, but either the Colonel was being honest and did not know and was just out there doing the impossible job he was asked to do, or he knew what the real thing going on was.
David says, David A. FrequentFaxers says, Dear Art, within 96 hours, the Mir mission will be aborted.
Well, I can't know that's true, David, but I would generally, my general sense would be to agree with you that there's a great deal we're not being told and that they have not even discovered yet about the damage to Mir.
And they are going to have to get out.
My only comment would be they ought to be preparing the Atlantis shuttle just in case.
Because should there be difficulty with the Soyuz, there would be dead men in space.
And so I would say prepare the Atlantis just in case.
Just in case, Soyuz, which everybody says is a very functional, if somewhat cramped, return craft, if something should go wrong, or for some reason the power should go south and they cannot power up Soyuz or one thing or another, I just think it would be to use a bushism prudent to have the Atlantis ready.
Well, many, many, many people have seen triangles or boomerangs.
The latest sighting, mass sighting, being in Las Vegas a couple of days ago.
unidentified
Well, I think I might know what it is.
You know, I do want to think that it's not from this world, but I live by Selfridge Air National Guard Base, and four of these were flying from that direction.
It was like three years ago to the date.
And they were perfect triangles.
Three of them were in a triangle formation, and the fourth one was flying from the outside of the triangle to the inside, backwards to the outside.
There's nothing that I know of that will support itself in aerodynamic flight at that speed, way, way, way below the stall speed of just even a hang glider.
unidentified
Yeah.
Well, I saw a program where two guys described the same thing that I saw, and they said it was called the Black Manta TR-3A.
If we, um, if you, if someone records someone's speech while it's going backwards and you play that speech backwards, will it come to the original when he played it?
And I'm wondering, is that signal from Mir strong enough to come through a mobile home or would I have to be outside to pick it up on a probably have to be outside?
I was afraid of that.
Because I can get some of the repeaters around here with stronger ones, but as far as something that far away, I didn't know if you needed special.
Now, if you've got the scanner to a window and you've got a pass directly overhead, which you probably have around sometime between 10 and 1, you'll probably hear it.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I've tried to listen before with a scrutiny of a dynamo kid is just noise and I don't hear much of anything.
So I didn't know if it was too weak of a signal to go through a nerves that kind of figured something that far away with.
Is there any way with Hong Kong going back to, reverting back to China, is there any way you'd be able to get some recordings off of some kind of a website where the ceremony would be taking place and possibly replay them back on your program for the people that you've seen?
I've got Emily's number in Hong Kong, so we'll see.
unidentified
You know, that would be something to do, because I'd sure be interested to get an insider's view of what happens after it changes over, rather than all the pomp and circumstances.
Yeah, there's not going to be anything, thank you, very immediate, to even notice.
What's going to occur in Hong Kong, there will be a few things, but it'll be like the slowly boiling fog syndrome.
In other words, it has already begun.
The legislature in Hong Kong has been replaced.
There have already been dictates that there will be no public demonstrations against the government.
And in all likelihood, the people of Hong Kong are not going to do that.
They well remember the Chinese government and how it handles such things.
And even though they have enjoyed the taste of freedom for a long time, they're probably going to hope for the best.
You're not going to see much in the way of demonstration.
Everybody's going to hope the economic situation remains roughly the same, particularly and certainly the residents.
And so until and unless there becomes economic downturn as a result of the government, you won't see much protest, much to the distress of Emily Lau and people like her.
Well, there was, in addition to that, a very serious sighting of what is being called a boomerang kind of object in the Las Vegas area, north of Las Vegas.
And we're getting more and more of these reports.
It seems like the southwest is hot.
Hot, hot, hot.
Phoenix?
Las Vegas?
My area.
The southwest, for some reason, now experiencing almost, in terms of quantity, what Mexico City had.
You know, I think this time compression thing is cool because if I'm late for work, I can just say, hey, you know, I used to say that, well, I was abducted by AWS.
Yeah, but I don't want to be old and past shelf life and then have some old, you know, wrinkly-up cigar-smoking guy go, oh, honey, you look pretty good to me.