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June 25, 1997 - Art Bell

02:52:35

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard Hoagland - Mir and Pathfinder. Lan Lamphere - UFO in Storm Chaser Video

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
	From the high desert in the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these time zones.
	Stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, North to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
	Well, an extremely interesting day in more ways than one.
	Most of you by now must be well aware of the Russian Mir space station's collision with a cargo craft during a manual docking exercise, underlined manual.
	A man was doing it.
	Slammed into one of the solar arrays and actually opened a hole in the main hull, at which point the astronauts and cosmonauts, astronaut and cosmonauts, began to hear a hissing sound and had to close off a whole section of mirror.
	Now there's been a rather sharp, severe fall in electrical supply and We're not exactly sure what the status is of MIR right now.
	I can probably tell you more than you're hearing on CNN.
	I can tell you that the gyrodines that keep the MIR in the proper attitude are only apparently functioning during the period of time that MIR is in light and has quite a bit of electrical input from what they do have remaining.
	of the solar arrays.
	I can also tell you that you can hear MIR if you want to.
	I listened to them during two earlier passes today, and my wife, incredibly, heard a third pass after 6 o'clock Pacific Time tonight.
	MIR can be heard on VHF at 143.625.
	at 143.625. That's 143.625. Now it may be that the farther reaches of my voice out in
	the islands may yet hear a pass tonight or two.
	and And while generally what I heard earlier today on two passes and my wife on a third was all in Russian, as the afternoon wore on it became apparent that they were extremely tired and stressed.
	And that's what you could hear in their voice.
	My guess is that we are not being told the whole truth.
	Now, why, for example, do you think I might believe that?
	Do you remember the fire they had on Muir?
	Do you remember how the officials insisted at the time that the Muir fire was minor, easily controlled, short-lived, all that?
	You remember that?
	And I told you then that you were not getting the straight poop.
	And I don't think you are now.
	As a matter of fact, the New York Times, in breaking news, which I think we pulled off MSNBC, said, only now, this is Associated Press, folks, only now, with astronaut Jerry Linegar's recent return from Mir, is another terrifying story emerging about the fire last February.
	The fire raged, he said, raged for 14 minutes.
	Flames shot out two feet, smoke choked passageways, and chunks of molten metal spewed from a burning canister blocking one of two routes to the Soyuz escape ship.
	Six men and one lifeboat, capable of evacuating no more than three, the situation That seemed too far-fetched for flight controllers to consider seriously until it happened February 23rd on the world's only space station, 250 miles above the Earth.
	Actually, I think it's closer to 300.
	The fire is receiving new scrutiny in light of Wednesday's collision between Mir and a docking cargo ship.
	Both incidents highlight the increasingly A precarious condition of the eleven-year-old space station, designed, of course, to last only five.
	But I told you then, during that fire, that it was very serious.
	And, in fact, I've got the actual wording here of the... Well, let me read you some of it.
	Late that Sunday evening, Lineager was working at the computer when the master alarm sounded.
	He'd heard countless alarms during his month aboard Mir, most set off by minor equipment failures.
	Then came the cry, It's serious!
	In the central passageway, Lineager saw dense smoke pouring from the X-Vant, a module that's where a solid fuel oxygen generating canister was ablaze.
	Smoke began filling the entire station.
	The four Russians, one German, and Leininger swiftly donned oxygen masks.
	Leininger and two cosmonauts fought that fire.
	The three others prepared a Soyuz for evacuation.
	The second Soyuz was out of reach, beyond the fire.
	Now, listen.
	Remember back to when this occurred, and they said there was nothing to it, and I said there was, and people were sending me faxes saying, Oh, you're just rolling this up out of control.
	There's nothing serious going on.
	It was a little tiny fire.
	They got it out quickly.
	Bull!
	Continuing quote.
	The flame was maybe two feet flying out of this thing.
	It looked like sparklers going off and molten metal flying, Leininger said.
	It almost looked like SRBs, solid rocket boosters, on the space shuttle.
	You almost can't look at them.
	They're so bright.
	It was a hot fire.
	Mir's fire extinguishers were useless against the burning lithium.
	The crew could only let the fire burn itself out.
	They turned the extinguishers on the module's walls instead.
	They knew if Mir's aluminum hull ignited and burned through, the station would decompress.
	A quick get-into-your-Soyuz-vehicle situation at best.
	Mir was out of contact with Russian mission control when that fire erupted, and Leiniger was ready to use a ham radio to alert the Russians through the Johnson Space Center that, quote, an evacuation is a possibility.
	Get ready for it, end quote.
	He never made the call.
	He had no time.
	We needed, he said, another fire extinguisher, so I went for it.
	The flames finally died down, but ten more minutes passed before the smoke began to clear.
	Vapor from the fire extinguishers had condensed on pipes.
	Ash was everywhere.
	Miraculously, damage was minimal, and the crew suffered no serious injury.
	But it was close.
	Very close.
	So, I must tell you that... And the reason I read all that to you is because I warn, when these things are occurring, every time, as I now warn you, That this is more serious than they are telling you right now.
	Now, if you monitor tomorrow, uh, tomorrow morning, uh, the signal on 143.625, you can listen to Mir directly, they're broadcasting on VHF directly, and you can listen to them.
	143.625, I want you to pay attention to something for me.
	Uh, you will notice, as I noticed, uh... and uh... and friends of mine have noticed that i mean i'm in contact with quite a number of people who are monitoring as well uh... you will see a very sharp a fluctuation in their signal strength going from at times if you've got a near pass uh... sixty over nine down to zero now what that means is they are tumbling
	This is not being reported in the press, but there can be no question about it.
	I watched the signal strength myself, and it went from pegging the needle, as the phrase goes, in other words, as strong as you can get, to zero.
	And it would do that cyclically.
	Now, that indicates the space station is tumbling, and they're not telling you that.
	Now, what does that mean?
	Well, certainly it means That they would have a difficult time and may not be able to get control of that spacecraft and nothing of course could dock to it.
	Why they tried to dock with this cargo craft is in itself a mystery because Mir at the time was not safe and the docking control was done manually.
	So... And we've got legislators trying to get Dan Golden in the meantime To certify in writing, and Dan Goldin is not one of my favorite guys, but this is nuts, to certify in writing that it's safe.
	In other words, they're saying, in effect, to Dan Goldin, put your name here and tell us it's safe, and if something happens, it's your career but.
	And I don't think Dan Goldin can do that at best.
	Space is not a safe place to be.
	It's tentative.
	And we do the best we can, but it's not safe.
	And if I was Dan Gold, I'd be damned if I put my name on a piece of paper saying, I guarantee they're going to be safe.
	Because in my opinion, they are not at all safe in mirror right now.
	Nor are they going to be.
	It was designed the last five years, and it's a rickety, falling apart, rattle trap.
	I think they're not at all safe, and if you have the means to monitor, I suggest you do, and listen to their somewhat over-deviated, very serious tones.
	And if you're used to listening to them, you'll note the very stressful nature of their voices from Mir.
	Anyway, in a moment, we'll get a bit of an update from Richard C. Hoagland.
	Then I've got a number of other things for you and we will move into open lines.
	Sound of a plane taking off.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast a m from june twenty-fifth nineteen ninety
	seven alright are here let us go to uh... manhattan and see what
	update information we can
	uh... pull from the no doubt somewhat tired uh... but nevertheless awake richard c hoagland angstrom
	science war winner buzzard and as a and uh... what's wrong kind of one-time
	Richard, good morning.
	Good morning.
	And you're right, it is a little tiring back here.
	Yes, sure.
	It's about 99 degrees, the humidity is 95%.
	Oh my.
	And the phone never stops ringing.
	Well, that could cause a person to eventually begin throwing things.
	Or maybe move.
	Anyway, serious occurrences on Mirror.
	Very serious.
	Very serious.
	I woke up this morning and I couldn't believe my ears and John Holloman was on and I was about to do A two-hour program with a friend of ours, Mike Murphy in Kansas City.
	Oh, yes.
	And Mike sends his kind regards.
	He keeps asking me, he says, don't you love me anymore?
	He says, you keep doing our show and you never do my show anymore.
	Well, I mean, you're awake during my show.
	That's what I told him.
	No, Mike and I have gone back about ten years.
	Yes.
	I've known Mike and done Probably, oh, maybe 500 shows on the update of the investigation as we've gone forward.
	Sure.
	So I figured this morning I needed to spend two hours, and it was one heck of a two hours because I knew what was going on before I could get to you because, of course, you have different hours than Michael, and I had to wait until you were maybe conscious.
	Right.
	And then you told me that you had, just before you had gone to bed yesterday morning, As you were ending your show, you had heard the first flash.
	That's correct.
	That something was going on upstairs.
	Actually, that's not totally accurate.
	I got off the air, and I was doing an interview at WGST in Atlanta, and I heard the news as I was waiting to begin the interview myself.
	So that's how late it came through.
	Well, I must say, when I saw Holliman doing his report, and I have not really even tried to reach him today, because I know that he's totally overwhelmed by this.
	The only thing I could think of instantly, my first reaction was, what an astonishing coincidence.
	Because this accident happened at the same time, exactly, as the one day delayed Mars Pathfinder burned.
	Well, maybe this will help break the ice for you.
	Let me read a short fax.
	One has heard of diversionary tactics, of course, but sideswiping a space station does reflect a certain dramatic flair.
	Question.
	Who's going to notice a little glitch in the firing of a rocket on Pathfinder when the lives of three men are at stake in such gripping circumstances?
	That's from somebody who signs himself Cloud Sifter.
	I concur.
	This is, again, a tragedy because there are three men who are up there, I think, under very serious circumstances tonight.
	I think I concur with you that their conditions are much more extreme than the media are being permitted to relate to us.
	Not because someone's putting a hole in it, but because most of the people who are reporting the story, John accepted, just don't understand what it is like to live and maybe die in space.
	They really don't understand the severity.
	When you told me that you personally knew from your own data, from the shortwave, That that signal is going up and down and in and out.
	VHF.
	Yeah, VHF.
	The whole thing is tumbling.
	Very gradually tumbling, end over end.
	Actually, not that gradually.
	And that's the other problem.
	That's severe then.
	Yeah.
	What are the rates?
	What's the frequency?
	What's the total period between loss of signal and regaining it?
	About 10 seconds, 12 seconds.
	What?
	Yeah.
	That means you're going in and out of an antenna pattern off the solar panels very rapidly, or the whole thing could not be rotating in 10 seconds.
	There could be additional reflections causing it, but it is a zero to full scale change.
	When you hear it, Richard, it's quite serious.
	In 1960, and I'm going to reach back into ancient history here, in 1965 or 6, Neil Armstrong was in command of Gemini 8.
	And they had launched successfully.
	It was supposed to be the first docking with the Agena spacecraft.
	The upper stage would be set up, you know, a day before on the Atlas.
	And it was a practice for the ultimate rendezvous and docking en route to the Moon in Apollo many years later.
	Over the Pacific, they successfully tracked and caught up with and docked with the Agena.
	And then something happened, as you all now know, and one of the thrusters stuck open on the nose of the Gemini.
	And the rates built up to something like 10 revs per second, so fast that they were in danger of losing consciousness because of blood being forced away from their outer extremities, including their heads, their brains.
	And Houston, of course, did not know what was going on.
	They were out of communication range in those days.
	We didn't have TDRS satellites.
	We had Wiley space ground tracking.
	Yes.
	And chips.
	So Armstrong, very coolly, ultimately decided that the mission was lost unless they disengaged.
	And he fired his emergency RCS, reaction control system, and then separated from the Agena.
	And it went spinning off into the darkness.
	Well, we almost lost two astronauts on that mission because of rapid rotation.
	If what you're telling me is accurate, and of course I have no reason to believe it's not, the rates on Mir are very high to the point where I would begin to wonder about structural integrity.
	Because those panels, this thing is an incredible fragile butterfly.
	It is not meant to rotate or tumble or spin.
	It's meant to sit motionless, locked on the sun.
	The other problem is, if it has any significant rotation rates, if they're not able to control it with the right gyros and the Massive reaction wheels that were used similar to what we have in Skylab.
	Yeah, well let me stop you there.
	They've got something called Gyrodines on board.
	Now, these have to be powered up.
	And my understanding is that while Mira's in sunlight, they are powering the Gyrodines.
	But while it's in the darkness, without the battery reserve, they are not powering the Gyrodines.
	And that's what keeps them in a stable attitude.
	Except they're not stable.
	Except they're not.
	And it sounds to me like they're doing a very delicate and dangerous pirouette between control and total loss of control.
	Right.
	The problem is really very simple.
	It's power.
	Panels are facing the sun.
	They're able to charge the batteries.
	If they turn off the sun by even 20, 30 degrees, the efficiency of the solar conversion is way down.
	Way down, sure.
	Which means they're doing this delicate dance between powering up The reaction control system, which is these spinning disks of matter, which basically, with action and reaction, cause the station to rotate opposite the direction of the spin of the wheels.
	And they're trying to keep those panels facing the sun, but they don't have enough power on the nightside pass from the batteries to do it, nor can they afford to do it, so they're going back and forth, back and forth, and it sounds Very hairy art.
	It really sounds like if I were projecting the fate of this mission, I would say in the next day or so, they're going to make the decision to bring them home.
	I would agree with you.
	I mean, it may not happen.
	And then I heard one other thing privately today.
	I heard that there's a possibility that even if they decide to scuttle the mission, they might leave the commander or the commander of the mirror may choose to remain on board while the science officer And our American astronaut used Soyuz to escape.
	Do you think they would do that?
	No.
	No.
	I mean, there's a tradition of the sea.
	The commander stays with the ship.
	But space is a little different, and they would bring them all home.
	Because there'd be nothing that one man could do.
	Well, we'll talk about Soyuz in a moment.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Richard C. Hoagland is with us for a bit.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.
	Can you tell I like this?
	Good morning, everybody.
	Wise men rush in.
	Or, only fools rush in.
	And maybe wise men, too.
	It depends on how much knowledge you have.
	I'm talking about investing here.
	Pretty tricky little, uh, segue, huh?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	Thanks for watching!
	Back now to Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard?
	Yes, sir?
	I've got a number of other things I want to ask you about, but the obvious is, again by facts, I'm getting a lot of facts, so obviously people are thinking about it.
	If Mr. Hoagland's grand scheme is coming to fruition, that it may be possible the accident was not an accident, that in fact it was intended to remove any human presence from Earth orbit, such that they, in quotes, could perform certain operations unseen.
	Now, that's really a leap.
	In my opinion.
	Yeah, I mean, we're into the area of obvious, I mean, it's understandable that people would be speculating because again, this is so stunningly coincidental.
	We have been, I mean, I'm involved in space operations in one way or another, you know, at NASA or at CBS for 30, 37 years.
	And I can literally count on one hand, a couple of fingers on one hand, A dramatic moment in space history, equivalent to what is going on upstairs tonight.
	The Apollo, I'm sorry, the Gemini 8 mission, which I just recounted, back in the mid-60s, sitting with an old friend of mine, Mark Kramer at CBS, we were the only folks on the floor, because the mission was so boring, Apollo 13, and we're sitting there with our feet up, we just ordered dinner in from one of New York's great restaurants, and we're watching the TV from Houston, Close circuit.
	CBS was not carrying the TV that night because people were bored with, oh I'm going to the moon again.
	And I watched Jim Lovell spin his tape recorder in zero gravity in the lunar module and play 2001 while the camera showed behind him the moon and out the other window the earth in color.
	An eerie, wondrous moment.
	But I was one of the only ones seeing it because nobody was relaying it over the network.
	Either our network or NBC or ABC, which were the only networks we had in those days.
	And then, of course, that fateful, chilling call, Houston, we've had a problem.
	But those were moments when, you know, people would leap to all kinds of possible speculations, yet they were very rare.
	They were few and far between.
	In the whole history of the space program, we've only had a couple of other moments where men trying to conquer the last frontier really were in danger, serious danger.
	Tonight, we have another.
	What strikes me as so remarkable about what's going on tonight is that simultaneous with this very now visible man drama playing out in the skies overhead, we have an unmanned drama taking place millions and millions of miles away, a few million miles away from the planet Mars.
	Pathfinder.
	We have a little spacecraft, Pathfinder, which today, coincidentally, was supposed to carry out a very small but vital maneuver.
	Did you, have you heard anything about that?
	I am on the computer right now.
	I have the NASA Pathfinder website up.
	I am plugged into something called the Ground Data System, and I am reading data from June 23, 1997, day 174, at 447 GMT.
	I am looking at uplink data, downlink data, whatever.
	There is nothing in any of the NASA websites, in any place that I or any of my colleagues have been able to find all day long, On the status of this crucial Mars Pathfinder burn.
	Now I wonder why that would be.
	And it's been 12 hours.
	The spacecraft was commanded your time this morning.
	Well, they told us about the upload for the burn.
	That certainly made the news.
	That was a few days ago.
	Yeah, so why not the results of it?
	Or the fact that it... You might not know the results, because to know the results, meaning how effective the engine firings were, you have to have tracking.
	You have to have time to literally track it and see whether the course deviates from the planned course.
	But the fact that there's no update, you know, burn successfully completed, spacecraft turns back to earth lock, that kind of thing, and it's been over 13 hours now since the burn was completed, and the last data we can find anywhere on the net is from the 23rd, two days ago, I find just a tad suspicious.
	Strange.
	Very strange, Richard.
	I want to read you something, and I want to get your reaction to it.
	So that's where Pathfinder is, folks.
	In other words, we don't know a damn thing about the burn, one way or the other.
	The data on the NASA website has simply stopped.
	And from any source, we can gather nothing.
	That is the status of Pathfinder.
	Curious.
	Despite enormous danger, huge expense, and a clear alternative solar power supply, the U.S.
	government is pushing ahead with the deployment of nuclear technology in space.
	In October of 1997, NASA plans, get this folks, to launch the Cassini probe to Saturn, carrying with it 72.3 pounds of plutonium-238 fuel, The largest amount of plutonium ever used in space.
	The probe will sit atop a Lockheed Martin-built Titan IV rocket.
	The same kind of rocket has undergone a series of mishaps, including a 1993 explosion in California, soon after takeoff, that destroyed a $1 billion satellite system and sent its fragments falling into the Pacific Ocean.
	Space News, the industry Richard, just a question for you.
	that quote, the high risk and cost of Cassini mission to Saturn troubled NASA administrator
	Daniel Golden so much that he would cancel the program if it were not so important to
	planetary science, end quote. Richard, just a question for you. If 72.3 pounds of plutonium
	238 were to somehow get scattered into the ocean or onto the earth or both, what would
	the result be? Well, there would be an increase in the cancer deaths due to the inhalation
	of plutonium oxide.
	That's the primary concern.
	That's a horrible worst-case scenario.
	Now, let me tell you why that's not really very realistic.
	When I was with Cronkite, one of the things that we dealt with was the fact that during every Apollo mission, NASA launched on a Saturn V, which was the equivalent of a tactical atomic bomb in terms of 3,000 tons of fuel lifting off from Cape Canaveral.
	Yes.
	The ALSEP experiments powered by radioactive plutonium, radioisotope thermoelectric generators hung on the outside of the lunar module up under the, or inside the shroud below the command module as the rocket lifted off from the Cape.
	And there obviously was, at that point, a concern that if the worst case scenario occurred, meaning an explosion, or if the spacecraft somehow inadvertently re-entered before leaving for the moon, that plutonium in those casks would somehow suffer the fate of the article that you just read.
	And to seek to prevent that from happening, the Atomic Energy Commission, which is what the agency was then in charge of Nuclear Regulatory Materials in this country, together with NASA, conducted an exhaustive series of tests, many of which we saw in excruciating detail on slow-motion film and all kinds of other things.
	They would take these casks and they would literally put them between two 70-ton diesel locomotives racing at 70, 80 miles an hour at each other.
	And they would smash the locomotives into each other with the casks in between.
	And nothing fractured.
	Nothing broke.
	Nothing was spilled.
	So they have designed these fuel casks to handle this plutonium in a way that is so close to foolproof, given the actual experimental evidence, that I really don't think that's a serious problem.
	And in counterpoint, I might remind everyone that during Apollo 13, because the astronauts looped around the moon in the lunar module and came home in it as a lifeboat, that ALSEP nuclear fuel cask on the outside stayed exactly where it was.
	And it re-entered the Earth's atmosphere somewhere, I believe, southwest of New Zealand.
	And NASA sent up sniffer aircraft, which of course we were concerned with, looking for radiation after the entry.
	And they found nothing.
	They were very sensitive.
	So, to me, this is not a serious concern.
	It is much more of another mechanism of attacking an agency.
	That, I think, needs scrutiny and needs critique.
	But on this issue, I do not think that the concern is valid, given that we have a tremendous database and decades of proven performance, and the risk is so small as to be as close to zero as I can get.
	Well, Dan Golden himself, though, was saying that if it was not so important, Planetary Science... Well, when did he say that?
	I'd like to know, because, you see, on the Cassini mission, there is no other option.
	You can't go to solar power.
	You can see that in near, in Earth orbit, which is, you know, 20 times, 30 times closer to the sun.
	No, no, I'm sorry, 10 times closer to the sun than Saturn is, that you need massive amounts of power and solar, you know, cells, solar arrays just won't even hack it if you have a small problem.
	Cassini, which is being launched as a compact spacecraft, could not unfurl enough solar panels to power it in any useful mission at Saturn's distance from the Sun.
	So you're really limited to nuclear power unless, and this is a very important unless, unless you bring online hyper-dimensional technologies such as were demonstrated on Good Morning America.
	So I would prefer if Dan Golden is really serious to have him sit down with us or with you or with Gene Maloff or whatever and discuss real space power Which is non-contaminating, which is infinite, which could power any number of missions and do all kinds of neat things.
	And I don't think that's going to happen in a short period of time.
	Well, let me just continue a little bit with what I've got here and see how you react to it.
	Let's see.
	I'm trying to get the... Here we go.
	Chief Scientist Francis Cordova acknowledges that the Titan IV does not have a 100% success rate.
	And admits that using it for Cassini is, quote, truly putting all your eggs in one basket, your 18 instruments on one firecracker, she says.
	Quote, we can't fail with that mission.
	It would be very, very damaging for the agency.
	To say nothing of the Earth and the life on it if something goes wrong.
	Plutonium has long been described by scientists as the most toxic substance known.
	It is so toxic, according to Dr. Helen Candicott, founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility.
	That less than one millionth of a gram is a carcinogenic dose.
	One pound, if uniformly distributed, could hypothetically induce lung cancer in every person on earth.
	That would be one pound.
	Well, of course, it would not be uniformly distributed.
	It would be focused, you know, at the site of the disaster.
	And most of the concerns that I have seen are not concerns expressed during the launch.
	They are concerns expressed because of the trajectory, which is being designed by the spacecraft engineers to bring Cassini back around near the Earth for a kind of a powered swing-by out to Saturn, a kind of a gravity-assist maneuver.
	And concern has been raised that NASA may miss, that they may target it too close to the Earth, and instead of missing the Earth and making a kind of a screaming left-hand turn and being tossed into the outer solar system, it may re-enter.
	That's been the concern that I have seen, in which case, if that were to take place, and the fuel casks were to rupture, or burn through, or any of the other scenarios, you would, yes, have plutonium in a streak across the skies of wherever the entry point was located.
	73 pounds of it.
	73 pounds.
	The fact of the matter is that we have had comparable amounts on the most catastrophic disaster we've experienced in the space age, which is Apollo 13.
	When that plutonium on that lunar module re-entered at 25,000 miles per hour over the Pacific and nothing was found.
	All right.
	No matter what we believe about what's going on with respect to Mir right now, there is one truth.
	And I'm not suggesting that there was anything intentional about this terrible Mir situation.
	But certainly the news of it has completely swallowed even the Roswell fiasco of the other day that was front and center in the news.
	And of course, as you point out, any Pathfinder questions or news at all, it has consumed all of that.
	Well, what I was trying to say earlier is that we had actual human beings calling NASA headquarters and Ames and JPL on the phone trying to get press you know uh... representatives public affairs
	officers to answer the simple question
	did it work and no one could be reached by phone nobody could talk and
	the fact that people like john holloman and uh... others are totally tied
	up and now preoccupied by
	forthrightly i mean they they definitely should have their concern safety of the
	three men sure the fact that i mean i didn't even feel in good conscience i could call holloman and say why did
	you give jpl a call by the pathfinder because i know
	yeah as a news person that his priority had to be with a lot of those three men
	and frankly i would not i we could find that ourselves except nobody was answering
	the phone And what I think is going on, in the most non-conspiratorial light, is that when... Space is like a family.
	Even in the good old days, during the Cold War, We and the Russians and the other space programs were much closer than was publicly acknowledged.
	There is a camaraderie of spirit.
	There is a respect for people who risk their lives for knowledge.
	And the cosmonauts and the astronauts have always had tremendous respect for each other.
	That percolates down through the whole system.
	So all of NASA is grappling with, in whatever function that they can grapple, With the problem potentially of bringing Mike Foley home and the other guys home and potentially solving this.
	And I can see an awful lot of talent that normally would have been available to, let's say, run the numbers on Pathfinders Burn, suddenly and logically and naturally being co-opted to this more pressing problem just because they want to help.
	You know, I looked at Leiniger go down into the Soyuz.
	They had some film of that before he left the station.
	Demonstrating what it would be like to have to use the Soyuz.
	And he said, well, actually, when he got down here and he was all humped over, he said, it's quite comfortable.
	I can only imagine three fully suited astronauts, cosmonauts, and one astronaut, all cramped up inside this little Soyuz, returning to Earth.
	It didn't look comfortable at all to me.
	When I was at the Cape during the launch of Apollo-Soyuz, which was the 1975 mission, After Skylab, where Deke Slayton was in command, and we went up and rendezvoused for the first time with the Russians.
	Yes.
	I was at Cape Canaveral, and I got an extraordinary opportunity to meet the Russian poet, Yevtushenko, and to see the actual spacecraft that the Russians had brought over to Cape Canaveral.
	Right.
	And the thing that struck me were two things.
	One is the rivets on the outside.
	Yes.
	It was so cramped inside with valves and plumbing and pipes and all that, that one of our guys, Tom Stafford, said, look, he says, I'll run with it, but I'll be damned if I'll go up in it.
	Really?
	And that was back in 75.
	The Russian technology is boilerplate.
	It is much more primitive.
	Now, it's also sturdy.
	Lou Friedman from the Planetary Society was on CNN as you were coming on the air on radio tonight.
	And he was being interviewed and he made some very appropriate remarks about it is a testimony to the backups and the brute force nature of the Russian space technology.
	You know, it's almost like one of those John Cameron Swayze commercials, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
	Sure.
	I mean, we, our spacecraft can't be banged around and hit on the side and bounced, you know, from one end of the cosmos to the other and still function.
	Just keep people alive.
	This thing is sturdy.
	It's robust.
	If it fails, it won't be because the Russians haven't been brilliant in designing and over-designing and over and over and over-designing.
	It's because it's old, it's aging, and it's been being put to a punishment it was never designed for.
	Alright, one last question.
	Dan Golden is being urged by certain legislative leaders to sign a statement, Richard, certifying that Mir is safe for an American astronaut.
	As much as I may disagree with Dan Golden at times, to sign such a statement would be insane, wouldn't it?
	I think so, and I think that we have to view this as part of a larger possibility.
	Alright?
	And I'll leave everyone on this thought.
	It is conceivable, in fact, it is one thing we have to think about, that the accident today was not anything internally directed, but in fact something that happened for external reasons.
	That in fact we are not being given the straight story on the accident.
	That maybe something else occurred up there.
	Well, I know where you're going with that.
	In which case, in which case, the space program as a whole is under attack.
	And what I saw from Sensenbrenner is a simultaneous ground attack on NASA together with the very hard story that we're seeing overhead.
	If that all happens, I will remind everyone that on the reverse speech of Savage and Ballard, there is a strange statement on your website, on our website.
	Real quick.
	Regarding NASA being killed.
	NASA under attack.
	Yes.
	Yes, indeed.
	And if you think that's something, I'm going to have David on Friday with the reversals of the colonel who did the Roswell news conference.
	So that'll be Friday night, Richard.
	Thank you, my friend.
	We will keep you updated.
	Yes, indeed.
	Thank you, and good night.
	Get some good sleep.
	Richard C. Hoagland from Manhattan.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time, coming up.
	A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
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	Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Do you remember the day, surely the day When you first came my way
	I said no one can take your place And if you get hurt, if you get hurt
	Why do little things last?
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	Alright, we are covering at once many stories.
	We're covering the collision on Mir, which appears to be more serious than the media, CNN and others are telling you right now.
	If you wish to monitor Mir for yourself, 143.625 MHz Uh, will enable you to do so.
	So if you have a scanner, uh, even with a short antenna, uh, tomorrow beginning at about 10 o'clock through all, I don't know, two or so, three in the afternoon, you will hear a pass.
	Listen closely during that pass.
	They'll be speaking Russian.
	What you want to be listening for is a rapid increase in decrease in signal strength, which I observed today along with others.
	Now, that would indicate that the Mir space station is tumbling, which is not being reported in the news.
	The situation is probably far more serious than they're actually reporting.
	But you never know.
	You really never know.
	What we do know, though, is that that minor fire that was reported on Mir some time ago was not, in fact, minor at all.
	Raged for 14 minutes and actually burned until it burned out.
	And the dam fire nearly caught the hull on fire.
	It was extremely serious, and at the time, of course, they did not tell us about it.
	So we will simply continue to monitor this story.
	They do have the Soyuz spacecraft, and they can, if they have to, I guess, return to Earth.
	We hope.
	Now, John Holliman, earlier in the day, briefly mentioned that because of the power problems, they might have actual trouble powering up Soyuz.
	Could we get a spacecraft in place to do a rescue if we had to?
	Yes, but it would take days.
	They'd probably have to bring Atlantis out and prepare it for launch.
	So all day long I have been carefully monitoring and talking to a lot of people about what's going on at Mir.
	And we are not, as you might imagine, we are not getting the entire story.
	In a moment, I've got kind of an unusual story for you, and I'll give you a brief description of the outline of how I got on to this fellow.
	In a second.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast a m from june twenty-fifth nineteen ninety
	seven i've got a facts from a fellow broadcaster who wishes not
	to be named uh... this morning
	with regard to a company called WindChaser.
	Thank you.
	Wind Chaser.
	Yes, that's it, a storm chaser.
	Now this man apparently, according to my fax, taped a storm a few weeks ago And later, in examining the tape in slow motion and freeze frame, he discovered an unknown object in the sky.
	The ABC-TV affiliate, Oklahoma City, KLCO Television, showed the tape on Tuesday night.
	The object is cylindrical, traveling at an estimated speed of 9,000 miles an hour.
	It traveled more than seven miles in less than two seconds.
	The storm chaser is Lan I'm going to take a shot at this.
	Lanphier.
	Lan-Lanphier.
	And, as a matter of fact, I'm hoping that my webmaster is listening.
	Keith, are you?
	There is apparently a still rendition of this photograph at www.windchaser.com.
	Now I'll confirm that with Lan here in a moment.
	www.windchaser.com.
	Also, I'd like to get a link into that if I could, Keith, if you happen to be up and listening.
	Let us go to Lan, is it Lanphere?
	Yes, it's Lanphere, L-A-N-P-H-E-R-E.
	Thank you.
	I'll be darned, that was just a wild guess on my part.
	You did very good, very good.
	Lan, back in the 60s, at Amarillo Air Force Base in Texas, when that base existed, A very good friend of mine, now a weatherman down in Lake Charles, Louisiana, Lynn Whitlake and myself, used to chase tornadoes, many of them right all the way up into Oklahoma.
	You know, severe thundercells, waiting for tornadoes, and we caught many.
	And at that time, took 8mm stuff that we sold to local TV stations, and we did this in a Volkswagen.
	How we ever lived through that, I'll never know, but it was a great passion of mine.
	You are a storm chaser?
	Yes, that's correct.
	I'm a storm chaser.
	It's a crazy breed.
	Yeah, we are.
	The camaraderie among us is very intense.
	It's a compulsion.
	It's a passion.
	And there's no way that you can see cells building to 55 or 60,000 feet without getting in a vehicle and moving.
	I have to agree with that.
	That's correct.
	It really is.
	It is a passion.
	It is something that I really enjoy doing.
	As a matter of fact, Bill Magazine, about a month and a half ago, quoted me as saying that I would rather have a good storm than a woman.
	I don't know how true that is, but they did say that.
	Do you stand by that, too?
	Yeah, sometimes I do.
	I hate to say it, but I understand exactly what you're saying.
	How long have you been chasing storms?
	I've been chasing storms for about seven years now, off and on.
	In and out of Alabama, where I'm originally from, actually where my mother lives.
	We put it that way.
	She has a disease called lupus erythematosus.
	I've been with her for a long time.
	My family, I have four children, and my wife Melissa, whom I love dearly, decided to move to Norman.
	for winchaser the company based out of gatsby alabama uh...
	we moved out here to do to catch our own video actually
	for a movie they were putting together based on storm chasers would be released
	in about two months styles interesting for sure will alright uh...
	what were you doing when you
	caught this object on tape i was uh... arguing with the top of the yagi
	To be honest with you.
	So you guys had video just rolling?
	Right.
	We had set up a film camera on this storm.
	It was a very nice, very tight RFD coming into this storm.
	It was a rear-flanking downdraft.
	It was punching into this mezzo.
	We were on Highway 53, about five miles west of Loco, Oklahoma.
	It clears the bell.
	Real nice.
	We had a really nice queue, or cumulus, going up in front of us.
	The RFD was kicking in, so I decided to set the still camera up and the time-lapse camera up on it.
	So we did.
	You'll have to excuse me, I'm a little sleepy.
	I've had phone call after phone call after phone call.
	I understand.
	Sure.
	Anyway, we set the film camera up on it.
	We were doing time-lapse photography on it, and I decided we had just purchased a brand new Panasonic HE-EZ1.
	This is basically a mini camcorder.
	It shoots a DV60 film.
	It's above broadcast quality.
	It's basically a Beta SP.
	That's what it is.
	Set it up on it.
	We just started rolling in real time on it.
	I had a 0.5 millimeter lens on the front of a 60 millimeter lens, which kind of brought it up to the wide angle lens.
	I had zoomed in a little bit.
	I was just filming this mezzo.
	I was actually arguing with Tom Filiaggi, Matt Moreland, and Jared Bostic, a dear friend of mine, as to what the storm was going to do.
	During the process of me arguing with them, it just, it dawned on me, as you'll hear on the video when this is released, that They have not seen the tornado forming to the right into the front of the meso as of yet.
	It dawned on me that once it had dawned on me, I looked at them and I said, what are you talking about?
	And he's like, I'm talking about that meso.
	And I said, well, I'm talking about that tornado.
	And what you hear in the background is Matt Moreland, who is a very educated storm chaser.
	He's a trained meteorologist.
	I used to work at National Severe Storms Lab.
	He screams, oh my God, and he runs and grabs his camera.
	We just continued to talk about this and let the cameras roll.
	Two weeks later, I'm helping a friend of mine named Charles Edwards who owns and runs Cloud Nine Tours here based out of Norman.
	I had helped him with a Japanese film crew.
	They had come in and booked the last two weeks of his tour season and were shooting a documentary for Japanese television on Tokyo based on the movie Twister.
	They were kind of doing a parody of the movie Twister.
	They actually rented helicopters and did fly-bys, so it was rather interesting.
	We got a taste of Hollywood doing that.
	Anyway, they had taken off to Gerald, Texas, which I felt very bad about.
	It was a very massive tornado.
	Yes.
	A very, very devastating tornado.
	I saw the damage.
	And they had taken off down there to go get some damage footage, which is, you know, media.
	Sure.
	Of course.
	Yeah.
	It's what makes the headlines.
	So they took off down there to get it.
	And they really missed the good storms that we had run on.
	Matt Morland.
	No, excuse me.
	Not Matt Morland.
	Matt Biddle.
	The Rat, Matt Biddle, myself and Charles had been assisting Charles with this entire thing.
	He had a fellow chaser quit him in the middle of the season that was involved with Cloud
	Nine Tours.
	So we were all lending a hand to Charles.
	We basically got this cheese NATO down south of La Mesa and it was really, really bad.
	It was the only thing the Japanese had to star in their films so we kind of felt bad
	about that.
	When we got back to Norman I had about two days worth of rest.
	Charles called me up at about 9 o'clock in the morning.
	He was telling me that the Japanese would like to get some of the footage that we had shot Memorial Day weekend.
	The Blanchard Tornado, Purcell, Duncan Tornadoes.
	So I and Matt Morland sat down in front of our editing machine and we threw this video together.
	His off Hi8, mine off digital.
	And we took it up to the Hampton Inn in Norman, just off I-35.
	We went into the conference room.
	We all sat down.
	There were about 12 or 13 of us in there, the Japanese crew, the producers, the directors, the cameraman, the gophers, the whole nine yards.
	I'm sitting back talking with Matt, who is sitting to my left, who had brought a friend along with him.
	I had just met him.
	The producer, excuse me, the producer, the director, Mike, who is based out of New York, Turn to me and said, so Lan, what are we looking at?
	And I said, well, I looked up at the screen and said, well, we're looking at a wall cloud and informing tornadoes to the right.
	And he says, no, that's not what I'm talking about.
	So he ran it back.
	Yes.
	And what appeared to be a baseball at first had, you know, like something had been thrown in front of the camera lens.
	This flashed across the screen.
	Let me be clear, this was Memorial Day?
	No, not Memorial Day.
	This was Sunday, the 25th.
	Alright, alright.
	This is when it was taken, okay?
	I've done this before.
	This was shot two weeks later.
	Alright, I'm clear now.
	Anyway, he looks at me and this white object, appeared to be white at the time, flashed from right to left and it went into the hill core.
	I'm thinking, what in the world is this?
	I said, well, rewind that, Mike, and he rewound it.
	We looked at it about two more times.
	Well, right off the bat, I was offered a very large sum of money for this tape, and I declined.
	For personal reasons, I declined.
	I got up and I ejected the tape out of the TV, which was one of these VCR TV combination things.
	They popped out.
	I grabbed it.
	I turned around and thanked everyone for inviting me and that I was not interested in selling my video at the time.
	I politely left and went home.
	I looked at the tape on my VTR and read it back frame by frame by frame by frame and noticed what this thing was doing and realized that it wasn't a piece of debris.
	It wasn't a baseball.
	It wasn't a cow.
	It wasn't a desk.
	It wasn't a deep freezer.
	It wasn't a lot of things.
	I looked at it.
	I finally came to the conclusion, I didn't know what it was, and I threw my face in my hands.
	It just kind of rolled off on my right side and fell on the floor.
	And I said, oh my God.
	Since then my life has kind of changed.
	It really has.
	You've never been a ufologist type person?
	Absolutely not.
	Storm chaser?
	No, I am a storm chaser.
	That is what we do.
	Wind chaser films.
	You know, that's fine.
	businesses and chasing severe weather worldwide.
	That's what we do.
	My executive producer, Sharon Ramsey, she's based out of Gadsden, Alabama, she has put
	a lot of money out for us to go out here and form a new company in a new direction.
	What Wind Chaser does is, if you are a scientist, if you are, and I'm not plugging the company,
	I'm just trying to explain.
	No, that's fine.
	You can go right ahead and plug your company.
	Okay, I'm not plugging it, really I'm not.
	What Wind Chaser does, if a scientific research group or an independent research group or
	a corporation needs to do any type of research on weather for any private type of industry,
	for example a remote sensing unit for tornadoes, things like that, we go out.
	We can be contracted to go out and film with a trained meteorologist.
	Yeah, your life is really exciting enough without UFOs.
	Yeah, I really had no idea.
	I had never given the thought to UFOs.
	this information compacted, puts it together in a presentable package, and then we give it to the company.
	Yeah, your life is really exciting enough without UFOs.
	Yeah, I really had no idea. I have never given the thought to UFOs.
	A UFO is defined as an unidentified flying object. I have never even called, and this is on the record,
	I have never called this object a UFO simply because I do not know if it is flying or if it is falling.
	Okay, you heard the facts I read.
	Were the estimated speeds probably correct?
	No.
	I just received a fax from an OU student, Oklahoma University student here, who has really put a lot of time and energy into this.
	I'm not going to say his name.
	That's fine.
	What does he conclude?
	It concludes that this object, during the 49 frames that this object exists.
	Okay, now let me back up here when I say 49 frames.
	There are 30 frames per second.
	Right.
	In video.
	Correct.
	They run left to right.
	Okay?
	Now there are 49 frames.
	That puts it just over a minute, I mean a second.
	Second.
	A second and a half.
	Right.
	By two frames.
	Right.
	Okay?
	This object travels right to left over a distance of a 75 degree angle wide angle lens.
	In a second and a half.
	Which would mean an estimated speed of?
	18,900 miles an hour.
	My, my.
	Mach 25.
	Mach 25?
	Mach 25.
	Yes, it's very impressive.
	I had a meteorologist with KOCO tonight.
	I don't have a beef with him, but I really have to disagree with him.
	He made the statement earlier that this was possibly a piece of space ice, which is the most ignorant piece of crap I've ever heard in my life.
	Space ice?
	Space ice.
	He called it cosmic ice, to quote him correctly.
	Can you imagine a piece of ice entering our atmosphere?
	With all the tiles that the shuttle has on it, okay?
	To protect it from heat and protect it from all the velocity stresses that's placed on the object.
	I mean, the space shuttle itself.
	It would have dissolved before you could have ever seen it.
	way long before we saw it. It's 500 feet above the ground.
	We're coming to the bottom of the hour. I want to be sure of something. Is there a still
	photograph at www.windchaser.com?
	There sure is. There's actually two photographs, and if you click on the photographs, it will
	give you an enlargement and a detailed display of what happens in the video, which is not
	released at this time.
	The reason it's not released, and I'll hurry this.
	No, you don't have to.
	Just, I'll tell you what, instead, hold on, and I'm going to confirm we've got a link up from our website, and come back to you after the bottom of the hour.
	That'd be great.
	Alright, Landlampfear is on the line with me, and you can hear what he's talking about.
	Pretty interesting stuff.
	We will confirm the link for you in a moment as we come back from the bottom of the hour or send you directly there and you can have a look.
	I tell you folks, we have been cursed, I believe, to live in very interesting times.
	We'll be back.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	Watching in slow motion as you turn around and say Take my breath away
	Take my breath away Take my breath away
	You can dance, you can jive Having the time of your life
	See that girl, watch that scene She is dancing free
	Friday night and the lights are low Looking up for a place to go
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	Good morning, I'm Art Bell.
	Lan Lamphere is my guest.
	He's a storm chaser who caught on, by photography, an object traveling, estimated to be traveling at about 18,000 miles per hour.
	They've got it clearly on tape.
	They've got a couple of still photographs of at a A worldwide website, which I will give you.
	My webmaster, Keith, is returning from dinner, and when he gets back, we'll have a link up for you.
	In the meantime, it's www.windchaser.com.
	For those of you who want to take a look and I hope that site can stand the traffic.
	Now we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	I would like to thank my fellow unnamed broadcaster for telling me about Lan Lamphere and what Uh, he is done.
	He is a storm chaser, and he has taken a picture of this very bizarre object.
	Um, apparently, actually a serious video.
	30 frames, as he points out, per second.
	About 49 frames, something over one second.
	Uh, with an estimated speed of the object of about 18,000 miles an hour crossing the screen.
	And, uh, so you did, what, a couple of grabs for video?
	Or for, uh, stills?
	Yeah, yeah, I have a, uh, I have a 166 Cyrix, I believe that's how you pronounce it, Cyrix computer that we loaded a, or we have a video card in.
	Right.
	And we can just take the digital information, put it right into, and using an Asymmetrix 40 DVP Pro program, we can just capture that video, and we just FTP it over to our website.
	I heard you mention earlier, our website can handle this, it's no problem.
	I just looked at the counter on our website.
	It's really shot up.
	Yeah, I'm sure it has.
	That's really very good.
	I'm glad.
	I want everybody in the world to know this.
	I would like everyone in the world to know that from day one of this investigation, from the day that I saw this, I got on the website.
	I've contacted Jeff Sanyo.
	I've contacted John Lewis at the University of Arizona, Dr.
	Hubbell, which I'm still waiting for them to reply to, but I'm sure they're probably going
	to look at this.
	I'd like to determine whether or not it was a meteor, which I really don't think it was
	because at this speed, at Mach 25, this thing, at the estimated distance that we were from
	it, and I have some very exciting news for you that was brought to my attention earlier
	tonight, I'd like to pass it along to you in a moment.
	We're estimating a mile from us, a mile to maybe two miles at the very most.
	Oh my!
	Okay, this thing passed in front of my camera lens.
	I never saw it with the naked eye.
	I was, like I said, I was arguing with Tom Filiagi.
	May I ask you about what degree above the horizon it was?
	Okay, the camera is looking just about due northeast into this wall cloud and this meso, the RFD and the tornado that's pouring in front of us.
	Um, I would say the degree is, um, well, let's do it this way.
	I can't really clock off the degrees.
	We really don't know what that would be.
	And I really hate to screw the investigation up or muddy the water in any way.
	All right.
	Let's say three quarters of the way up from the ground.
	Okay.
	This object appears on the screen.
	It appears the first frame that appears in is actually just half of the object.
	So you can actually see it coming onto the screen.
	Then it travels and becomes occluded behind a scud cloud very near the mesocyclone.
	It seems or appears to take a left hand bank.
	Now, I'm not an expert on this, but looking at the video frame by frame by frame, which
	I did for about four days before I even talked with anybody about this, it appears to take
	a left hand turn.
	It appears to take a left hand turn, nose dive slightly.
	At Mach 18?
	Yeah.
	No, Mach 25.
	Mach 25, I'm sorry.
	Not Mach 18, Mach 25.
	18,000 miles an hour, yeah.
	18,900 miles an hour.
	Uh-huh.
	Now, that's just an estimate, okay?
	That was from a particular OU student that figured all the numbers out and sent me an email.
	And I mailed him back.
	And I was very appreciative.
	I've been very appreciative of every email that I have received because it has led me in the direction.
	To really go there and find out what this is about.
	When NASA contacted me about this... NASA contacted you?
	Yeah, but let's go there in just a minute.
	Because that's really a story in itself.
	Anyway, the thing takes a left-hand turn.
	And it knows dives and then it travels a little bit and then it seems to wrap itself around.
	It seems to be taking a right hand bank at about a five degree pitch at 25 Mach.
	And then penetrating a core, a hill core, known to have baseball size hill.
	And it actually becomes occluded as it goes into the core.
	Uh, and then it re-emerges slightly.
	You can see its definition a little bit more, and then as it travels on in the next couple of frames, it totally disappears.
	Why?
	No sound.
	You have really got something on your hands.
	Well, I'll tell you what's really, really cool about this, okay?
	I mean, this is totally awesome.
	Um, the reason I can't speak very well tonight is because I am celebrating.
	I have to admit that.
	I've gotten into some absolute vodka that we had put up.
	I have had.
	I'm not joking.
	I'm not trying to embarrass anyone or embarrass you or myself, even.
	So try not to let me do that.
	That's all right.
	You're just relaxed.
	Yeah, I'm trying to.
	I really appreciate you having me on.
	I really look forward to this.
	I actually thought about contacting you about this, but I didn't know where to begin.
	But tonight, K-O-C-O Channel 5 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Cherokee and Cherokee Ballard Who is an anchor for their station, as well as Scotty Travis, who I have become very good friends with.
	They are the most fantastic people in the whole world.
	They have allowed this thing to go and allowed me to take it in the direction that I wanted to take it in without muddying the water, so to speak, on the video because I really did not know what we had.
	I really just wanted to find out what we had.
	Did they present it on television without snickering?
	Yeah, absolutely they did.
	They have been the greatest people.
	KOCO is the most fantastic group of people I've ever met in my life.
	They are just absolutely wonderful.
	Cherokee and Scotty have gone to major, major extents, almost to the point where they're actually getting fired from their jobs to go to bat for me on this and what I believe to be the truth.
	Let me back up here and say something about the truth.
	I wanted to present this in the light because I didn't really know what I had.
	I never wanted to say it was a UFO because of the stigmatism and the stereotypical bull crap that goes along with it.
	Yeah, I know.
	Okay?
	I mean, you have people who are scientists and you have people who are semi-scientists and you have people who are total quacks.
	Sure.
	Just in the UFO field.
	Absolutely.
	And I did not want to address the quacks at all or even The semi-scientist.
	People of interest, yes, but not anyone else but the scientist.
	I wanted them to look at this video and say, hey, look what we have here.
	I was very fortunate in catching this on video.
	I really didn't know anything about it.
	So NASA contacted you?
	Yes, they did, and I'm fixing to go there, but I wanted to tell you about the truth about this.
	Since day one, I was on two radio broadcasts this morning, about 7.30.
	I went to bed at 5 o'clock this morning, so I'm very tired.
	And they called me at 730, and they were like, hey, Lan, can you do this?
	I'm like, no problem.
	I'll sit back and talk with you about this.
	And I told them, and I'm telling you and telling the rest of your viewing or listening audience, that since day one, I have dedicated myself 100% to finding out the truth about this matter, to the point.
	Here's where we go to NASA.
	After NASA contacted me, after another government affiliation contacted me, which I can't go
	there.
	I've given my word on it and I'm just not going to go there.
	NASA contacted me and I told NASA that I would deliver this tape to them for evaluation.
	They were just right off the bat thrilled.
	I'm not blasting NASA.
	I'm not at all.
	But NASA is a government funded organization.
	That's right.
	To hell with them.
	Okay.
	Let's just forget about that at this point and say I'm not going to give this thing to
	NASA until the private market, until the $2,000 that I have spent has gone out there and we've
	gotten documents and paperwork and we have got letters and reports back with people's
	names and signatures on them, which I'm going to post on my web, by the way.
	Okay, I don't need a name, but what level of NASA contacted you?
	High level.
	I will say again, high level.
	Very interesting, because, you know, the Air Force, of course, just did this silly Roswell news conference the other day.
	Yeah, pretty stupid.
	Yeah, went way out of their way to suggest they don't investigate that kind of stuff anymore.
	Well, that's bull, because I happen to know for a fact they do, because they contacted me about it.
	Okay, that's the bottom line.
	I know for a fact they do.
	I don't know why they contacted me.
	I don't even know how they got my cell phone number, because there's only like six people on this planet that have it.
	Okay?
	And that's the truth of the matter.
	And I'm being very liberal.
	I'm actually probably putting myself in a lot of danger even talking about this, but I mean, I'm just saying it.
	There it is.
	The people need to know.
	The bottom line is I told NASA that I would give this video to them after the private review was done.
	After I have spent my money and KOCO has helped me, they're actually helping me with video analysis and so forth and so on, into this subject.
	You see, at first we didn't have the one tape with this object on there.
	As of tonight, right before airing time of KOCO's 10 o'clock news, another storm chaser came forward and said, Hey, I've got that image on my tape.
	He was north.
	He was actually, he was east from where we were by two to two and a half miles.
	I'm going to take an estimate here.
	Okay.
	Looking Northwest.
	Now, I'm west of him, looking northeast, and the object passes right between us.
	And he's got the image?
	He's got the same image I have.
	Oh, that begins to get to be very serious, then.
	Very serious.
	What's really cool is that I've got better video than he does.
	I hear you.
	Alright, you said another agency contacted you, which you can't talk about?
	Yes, correct.
	I don't want to go there.
	Okay, we won't go there.
	Again, I go back to my statement about the Roswell News Conference, where they said no government agency is interested in this kind of thing anymore, especially the Air Force.
	That's absolute bull.
	Absolute bull.
	In my opinion, yes.
	That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it in the Constitution.
	Well, you certainly are, and moreover, you're giving me first-person Testimony here.
	Yeah, and I'm about lit while I'm doing it, but I'm telling the truth about it.
	I don't have any reason why.
	I've been absolutely dedicated, 100%, to giving to the public.
	There's some guy out in the middle of Texas, on the other side of La Mesa, Texas, out in the middle of nowhere, near the next New Mexican border, that doesn't know me from Adam's Housecat and has an interest in this thing.
	And since day one, I have felt a deep obligation to give.
	Whoever it is, whether they're a rapist or a murderer sitting in prison, which is very unfortunate, to someone around the world, whoever it is, wherever, whatever circumstance, give them the truth.
	I have worked very hard at making sure the truth All right, let me back away from the object and the stuff you've got on film for just one second.
	Sure.
	And ask you a more general question.
	Since you're a storm chaser, you obviously pay a lot of attention to the weather.
	Yeah.
	There is a general perception, and I certainly have at land, that we're undergoing some sort of basic or profound or cyclical change in our weather patterns.
	And I wonder if you Would agree with that or disagree with that or how you feel about that as somebody who studies the weather?
	Well, that's a very difficult question to answer.
	I mean, you can go back in the almanacs and find bad times.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you know, the dinosaurs had bad times.
	I think, in my personal opinion, I'll give you my personal opinion, okay, Art?
	Sure.
	My personal opinion is that the planet Can only take so much.
	I'm not a UFOlogist.
	I don't study UFOs.
	I've never even given consideration to UFOs.
	I don't deal in this.
	This is not my area of specialties.
	I'm a storm chaser and a director for a film crew.
	That's what I do.
	I pull up the SBC, the Severe Storms Prediction Center, every day, their website, and I look at their daily broadcast.
	They do a fantastic job.
	But nobody's perfect.
	I look at the National Severe Storms Lab's data.
	Nobody's perfect.
	They all are doing their very, very best to do their jobs correctly.
	These are trained scientists and colleagues, as far as I'm concerned.
	I mean, I'm not even nowhere near the scale they are, as far as intelligence and their knowledge.
	But as being self-taught to read models, self-taught to find the storms There's a lot of those guys sitting up there who haven't got a clue as to where a storm is going to form, and I can go find it before they can.
	That's my job.
	And then to shoot it correctly, to make sure I've got the correct backlighting.
	The weather lately has been kind of screwy.
	I have to agree with that.
	I don't know why.
	I'm not a climatologist.
	I'm not a geologist.
	Nor am I, but we've got a big El Nino forming, we've got hot ocean temperatures, we've got A hurricane season that threatens to be one of the worst.
	It seems to get worse every year now.
	I didn't know that, but that's pretty cool for me.
	It's kind of morbid, but it's cool for me.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, there does seem to be a sort of a basic change in the weather out here in the desert.
	It's finally beginning to warm up a little bit, but we should be at 110 plus now.
	And we've been in the 80s.
	I mean, it's weird everywhere.
	Of course, you know about what's going on down in Texas.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	There should have been a lot more activity as far as the storm season in Texas than there was.
	I've been to Texas about seven to eight, maybe nine times this year, and most of the days that I was there were big bus days, which is very unusual because Cape was, on those days, was very strong.
	The lifting index was very strong and nothing happened, which is, I mean, I'm not trying to start any type of panic or anything.
	How close to a tornado have you been?
	The last tornado I was on was on Highway 9, about 9 miles south of Norman, actually.
	It was moving towards Norman.
	As a matter of fact, I talked with my wife on the cell phone, and the sirens were going off while I was talking with her.
	I was telling her that I was behind this tornado, and it was the tornado that hit Purcell.
	At this time, it was forming near Blanchard, and it was a great big long white tube.
	I was right in the back of it, less than a quarter mile from it.
	Uh, if it was a white tube, it probably had not hit.
	It's on the website.
	It's on the website.
	It's the first photograph that you'll see on the gallery photograph.
	I take it it had not hit ground yet, then?
	Yes, it was on the ground.
	It was on the ground and white, huh?
	Yes, white.
	Well, see, the reason it's white is because most tornadoes that you see that are black is because the person is usually in front of them.
	Okay.
	Right.
	Therefore, you have the contrast of the sun coming through.
	That's right.
	And the density of the molecules in the atmosphere in the tornado, the wind velocities, the whole nine yards, it darkens everything.
	I was guessing that debris picked up and dirt would begin to darken it too.
	Yes, it will.
	Yes, it will.
	And then you have like monster wedges, you know, who are, they're going to be dark anyway.
	There's so much debris, dirt, and just all kinds of stuff, rock, you know, tree limbs.
	All kinds of stuff and it just makes them really dark.
	The big wedges usually form because of the moisture content in the air is so high.
	The dew point is so high that it condenses the air to begin with and just, you know, condenses it all real fast.
	So, these really wide tornadoes are basically, there's a core and then there's the wind fields and those wind fields are usually an indication that, you know, that's where That's where the wind field is, what I'm trying to say.
	That's where the wind field is, but the air condenses so rapidly that it forms these scud clouds.
	Basically, it's just scud trash, and it makes this big tornado.
	Well, I really admire what you do.
	I did a few years of it just as a hobby and for fun, and so I know what you do.
	I know how crazy you've got to be to do it.
	Now, what you captured on tape is amazing.
	We're going to get a link in.
	In the meantime, watch your counter, because it's going to go nuts.
	It went to 3,162, and we reset it at zero at around 12 o'clock.
	Yeah, there you are.
	There you are.
	So you have a very wide viewing audience.
	Yeah, we do.
	We have a listening audience in my case, but yes, we do.
	Excuse me, listening audience.
	I'm sorry.
	So listen, I'm going to check back with you.
	Sure, I'd be more than happy to.
	Well, I really appreciate that, and we're going to follow this story because you've got something very, very important to a continuing investigation, and I know it's hard to say the word UFO, but... I refuse to say it.
	It's really fair to say it.
	Unidentified flying object is certainly what you've got.
	Well, I'm not necessarily sure of that.
	When I have someone who tells me That that's what it is, yeah, when they crunch the numbers down and show me on... Well, let's put it this way, until it's identified... I can say it's an end of the line.
	Yeah, there you are.
	Alright, Lan, get some sleep, and relax, and we'll get back in touch with you and keep track of this story.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	Thank you.
	Lan, thank you.
	Okay, anytime.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	That's Lan Lamphere, folks.
	And I thought you'd want to hear about that.
	He chases storms for a living.
	And for fun.
	And because, like all storm chasers, he's kinda crazy.
	But he caught something very special on videotape.
	Watch for the link, coming up shortly.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the new game I'm working on.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the Good morning from the high desert.
	We're about to move into open lines.
	The first two hours of the program have been consumed in order with a discussion of MIR and the collision on MIR and a comparison of the information we're getting now about MIR's condition with a Do not, I repeat, do not trust the information you're getting from the major media on the condition of MIR.
	of the fire on Mir that at the time they insisted was minor and was not minor at all. Do not,
	I repeat, do not trust the information you're getting from the major media on the condition
	of Mir. If you wish to monitor Mir yourself and you have the ability, it's on 143.625
	megahertz, 143.625 megahertz, and you can listen to the Russians. And you can also listen
	very carefully for a changing signal strength.
	Earlier in the day, today, it was varying between zero and complete saturation, or 60 over 9, and that would indicate the spacecraft is tumbling, something they have not been reporting.
	So we're keeping a very careful eye on what's going on with Mir, and we discuss that and other items with Richard Hoagland in the first hour.
	In the second hour, Landlamp Fear, who is a professional storm chaser, told us a story, quite a remarkable story I must say, of something he captured on video while he was filming a tornado.
	He captured something traveling across the sky at Mach 25.
	Now, there are still photographs available of this object, thankfully.
	He's put them on his website.
	I'm still unable to reach Keith to get a link up, but we will do that.
	It is www.windchaser.com.
	That's www.windchaser.com if you would like to get a look.
	So the past hour was consumed with a discussion of that and what land does, which is kind of crazy.
	Anybody who chases storms has got to be a little bit crazy, but it's a compulsive kind of thing.
	And as you know, I did it for some years, compulsively.
	Alright, we're going to get to open lines and a reaction to some of that and whatever else you want to talk about
	shortly.
	thunder You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th, 1997.
	Well, alright, once again here we are and I think I'm going to simply go to the phone lines.
	I've got a lot of material here and I'll kind of drop it.
	In as we go, I've got finally a good, hard report on the lights that appeared over Las Vegas, and I will try to get that report to you.
	I've got a whole lot of information on a whole lot of subjects, so just bear with me this morning, and I'll kind of drop it in as we go.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, hello, Richard from San Jose.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	Good.
	Did you get the photos I sent you?
	Of what?
	Uh, the Hubble?
	Of the Hubble?
	Hubble, yeah.
	I sent you some photos and things.
	Priority mail.
	Okay, I guess not yet.
	Okay, it should be there.
	But anyway, really something about the space station there.
	Uh, yeah, we're not being told the whole truth.
	You can depend on that.
	Right.
	Right.
	And also, you know, my brother moved to Texas, Austin, Austin, Texas.
	Yes.
	And you can almost imagine what I bought him from Crane Company.
	Yeah, I got one and one for myself, too.
	So.
	Oh, you did.
	You'll have a radio with that that you'll be able to use without batteries.
	Oh, you got.
	Oh, yeah.
	The crank.
	Yeah.
	Yes, of course.
	So, well, he'll do well with that in Austin because we've got We've got a very powerful affiliate, KJFK, there.
	Right.
	And 98.9 on the FM dial, and so he will do very well with the Free Play Radio, indeed.
	Right.
	Okay, Art, that's all I wanted to say, and I look forward to getting those pictures priority mail.
	All right, thank you.
	I'll look forward to them.
	I'm backed up a little bit on scanning photographs.
	I've got a number of extremely interesting photographs that have been sent to me that are going to be shortly on the web.
	But I've been so busy lately that I haven't had time to sit down and do the scanning, perhaps tomorrow.
	Busy life, folks.
	Followed the mirror thing all day today and talked to a whole bunch of people.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Art, have you heard about the experiment that Our government has been doing with high aerial radio frequencies.
	Yes, it's called HAARP in Alaska, yes.
	Yeah, well it went off for the second time on June 17th.
	Right.
	And ever since then we've had all this weird weather.
	Well, there are a lot of people who feel that HAARP is contributing to the weather difficulties.
	I tend to doubt that they are presently.
	They're not at power levels that... But you never know.
	Um, they intend to go to a hundred billion watts.
	Wow.
	Uh, eventually.
	And that, uh, nearly everybody agrees.
	No, many people agree.
	Let me modify that.
	Uh, may have an effect on our weather, or could.
	Also, I think that they're trying to confuse us with the Roswell situation.
	Every time they go to talk about what happened over Arizona, they bring up the Roswell incident, and they're, you know, giving the false Stories of how it was the weather balloons and the dummies I am I talked to a thank you I talked to a very interesting young lady yesterday On KERN radio, I did an interview at about 12 30 or so in the afternoon and We were discussing Roswell and she was saying of course she had not seen the entire I
	News conference but only the you know the network reporting of it that night and she said I buy it straight out.
	You know, I buy what the Air Force is I Said how can you buy it?
	She said well, you know, I accept things on face value.
	I believe was her phrase and a very nice young lady, but I I Can't believe that anybody who really saw any substantial portion of that news conference could buy it on face value How could you possibly do that?
	The film and the evidence that they showed to substantiate the fact that it's case closed on Roswell did not even begin until six years after 1947.
	I mean, nobody should be buying that on face value.
	And again, as I said yesterday, and I really mean it, I felt so sorry for that colonel.
	Who had to go out and face people and tell them the impossible.
	And then try to stand there and defend it.
	And basically it boiled down to, well, read the book.
	Read the book.
	Well, Colonel, can you, can you account for the six year difference here?
	Well, actually, no I can't.
	It was time compression.
	Time compression.
	Going to remember that answer for the rest of my natural life.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Great to talk to you.
	This is Brenda from Beloit, Kansas.
	Hi, Brenda.
	Hi.
	I just wanted to let you know that on CNN earlier today, I did hear them mention that the mirror was rotating at one degree per so many seconds.
	I don't remember how many seconds it was, but they did mention it.
	They've had all kinds of statements that at one time or another were made For example, they said that if they could not get these gyros going again, that would force the astronaut and cosmonauts to abandon Mir, because they could not keep it in a stable condition and presumably then would not be able to get resupplied or repaired.
	So I'm not really sure what's going on.
	The only thing I know for sure Is that we're not likely getting the whole story?
	No, I believe we're not either.
	Also, I had a comment about the gentleman that you spoke to that saw the object in the storm.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Direction, photographed.
	Photographed, yes.
	That's right.
	Last night we had a terrible storm here in Kansas.
	We had wind gusts of up to 70 miles an hour.
	And the strange thing was, right before the storm hit, and I didn't really pay attention to it until I heard him speaking, Tonight I had seen, I had just went to bed right before the storm hit, and I was looking out my window, and I noticed that there were three glowing, I guess, I don't know what you'd call them, objects.
	They were about the size of a softball.
	And at first I thought that they were fireflies, and I thought, no, they're too close to the house and too large to be fireflies.
	Right.
	And they were right in front of a tree in my front yard.
	About 15 minutes later, a limb came down off this tree and nearly hit my house.
	Missed it by about four feet.
	And I mean, this limb was probably 15 feet long and just huge, as big around as my body was.
	But it just really shocked me when I heard him talking about an object in a storm.
	And I wonder if anyone else has ever seen any objects associated with storm activity.
	Well, it certainly would.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	And it is apparently another path that we're going to have to follow as we investigate The mysterious objects that seem to be near storms.
	I received this fax earlier from Wendy in Auburn, Washington.
	Aren't the state of Washington just had a very unusual hailstorm?
	The hail was one and a half inches in diameter, and get this, they were triangular in shape.
	It hailed for 12 minutes.
	The hail cut the fruit on the trees like razors.
	Apples, pears, cherries are ruined.
	An estimated $40 million worth of damage.
	This was on today's Channel 5 News from Wendy in Auburn, Washington.
	Excuse me.
	Triangular hail.
	Now that would take a meteorologist to explain to us how that could form.
	Triangular Okay.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	I'm very surprised.
	Well, I can barely hear you get into that phone and yell at us.
	Hello, Art.
	This is your friend from Fairbanks, Alaska, calling.
	Hi there.
	How are you this evening?
	Fine.
	Art, I've been listening to you these last couple weeks, and I'm talking as a mother now, or as a parent.
	You know when I saw the part of the news conference that I did see, you know what I'm beginning to feel?
	I'm beginning to feel like the government is the parent that doesn't want to accept The children have grown up.
	The citizens have grown up.
	Yes.
	You, on the other hand, are the parent that accepts the adulthood of the child.
	And you treat them as young adults, and you let us think for ourselves, and you let us feel what we need to feel.
	You are exactly correct.
	That is my way of doing things.
	I assume, even with all the risks attendant with the assumption, That my audience is basically mature, can stand to hear something that they have to digest and decide for themselves whether it's bull or real.
	And so I present things that way.
	And I guess that accounts for one reason that the program has done as well as it has.
	Yes, I agree.
	There's no magical solution here and if more people in the media would begin to do it, the American people would begin to appreciate them more.
	Okay, and the other thing I wanted to say was I'd like your opinion on my thought, because it's really bothered me.
	Because of what I've just said, people are saying, why does the government do this?
	Why do they keep not giving us the truth?
	Where I'm coming from, I don't think it's all the government's fault.
	Not producing the real McCoy on what's going on as far as the UFOs and extraterrestrials.
	I honestly think a big majority of the problem is the religious aspect.
	If in fact, religiously, they have to face the fact that we are not alone, it could change the whole concept of religion on the whole planet.
	Well, of course it would.
	And worse yet, if there was even a hint, That those people who would prove we're not alone might have had something to do with our getting here in the first place.
	Right.
	There would be a real rebellion.
	Right.
	And where I come from is, at the time of Jesus, there was the Roman gods.
	And after the time of Jesus, and after like a hundred year period or a couple hundred years, the collapse of the gods of that time happened.
	And in my mind, I honestly believe that what's happening now is the religious aspect is actually holding the government aspect in check.
	Well, I don't rule out a religious occurrence.
	We're headed toward an event.
	It may be spiritual, it may be religious, it may be environmental, it may even be social.
	I don't know.
	But we are building toward an event that will not End all life as we know it, but it is going to change things.
	Yes, it is.
	Thank you for talking to me, and I'm so anxious to see you in August.
	Okay, thank you very much.
	And I don't know for sure that I'm going to make it all the way to Fairbanks yet.
	I don't know what part of the schedule I've got with regard to Alaska.
	I'm going to be finding out about that shortly.
	I'm going to be on one leg of the trip.
	Uh, and I'm not sure altogether yet which leg that is going to be.
	But I sure am looking forward to seeing Alaska again.
	It has been altogether too long for me.
	And once you've been to Alaska, uh, as they say, I guess, uh, you can take, uh, you can take an Alaskan out of Alaska, but you cannot take Alaska out of an Alaskan.
	And that's an absolutely true statement.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi Art, how you doing?
	Okay.
	I've been listening to your program here for, oh, about the last three or four days.
	Yes, sir.
	And, um, well, it's kind of a crazy subject, but, and I got some crazy ideas about it.
	Well, this is the home of both, so go right ahead.
	Okay, well, the Roswell thing in 1947, um, who's to say when that craft crashed, okay, that, um, our government might be rebuilding these crafts
	and using them for whatever you know they've had fifty years to do it
	uh... with i wouldn't deny it's it in absolutely possible
	and um...
	is the same and it's a crazy part uh... the cloning
	yes they did maybe they're not going to pilot
	any pilot all look i think uh... human cloning is going on
	As a matter of fact, there was a story on the news this last hour about the same company that cloned Dolly already being asked to clone.
	Yeah, I heard that one, too.
	Yeah, so there you go.
	And you just know damn well that it's going on.
	Yeah, sure it is.
	You know, our government's into a lot of things they shouldn't be into.
	Yep.
	And probably far ahead of the private sector.
	But even if you just look at the private sector, you can depend on the fact it's going on right now for $200,000.
	Right.
	Uh, you can, um, be cloned in the Bahamas.
	Right.
	So, this genie is out of the bag.
	It's not going back.
	Oh, yeah.
	You know, it's... The only question is where it's going.
	Yeah, you take a spacecraft or any kind of craft that flies at the speed of light or, you know, 18,000 miles per hour, people like you and me don't have the, you know, the response to maneuver one of these craft split-second decisions.
	You know, our mind is on something else.
	You can't fly a craft like that.
	You have to have a trained human robot, basically, that knows nothing but how to operate that craft.
	Couldn't agree with you more, sir, and thank you very much for the call.
	Somebody, Bob, sent me this.
	This backs up everything we've been saying from today's, now yesterday's, USA Today.
	It's entitled, End of Story?
	Hardly.
	With unwarranted optimism, the U.S.
	Air Force titled its latest report on claims that aliens crash-landed in New Mexico in 1947, quote, The Roswell Report, Case Closed, end quote.
	Case closed, they wish, italicized in wish.
	This case is about as closed as the vast desert where it must be admitted some pretty strange things occurred.
	Lights seen, bodies viewed, wreckage inspected, Ironically, because it was meant to lay the matter to rest, the Air Force report released Wednesday gives Roswell more pizzazz than ever!
	The Pentagon's latest and most final conclusion is that witnesses saw dummies that have been dropped from balloons.
	But, but get this, the dummies were dropped six to twelve years after the witnesses say they saw the corpses of small creatures To which officials merely shrug that memories from the 1940s and 50s have, quote, consolidated.
	Don't you like that word?
	Now, instead of compression, they're talking about consolidation.
	God, these people have contempt for us!
	And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a piece of the article from the USA Today, commenting on the Air Force's brilliant Absolutely brilliant press conference held the day before.
	Now buried, by the way, with other news beneath what has occurred in space.
	On Mir, a very, very serious collision.
	And you can depend on one thing.
	We're not getting all the news about this collision.
	We'll be right back.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	more somewhere in time coming up Oh baby, don't leave me this way, oh
	I can't exist, I'll surely miss your tender kiss Don't leave me this way
	Baby, my heart is full of love I desire for you Now go down and do what you gotta do Can you start this
	fire?
	Subscribe to our channel for more videos!
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	Good morning from the high desert.
	I interviewed Lan Lamphere, who is a storm chaser and caught an object on tape.
	An object doing Mach 25.
	He's got 49 frames of it.
	Two of those frames are on his website.
	You can now go to my website, and the link is in.
	Keith has returned.
	That was one of those last minute interviews.
	It just, you know, one of those things that happens.
	So, if you want to go zipping up to my website, you'll see the link there now.
	Somebody writes, and he's referencing the second Storm Chaser that also captured this on tape.
	Meaning that we've got two different angles.
	Somebody writes, all right, this is fantastic.
	We have the object photographed from two different angles.
	We can determine exact speed, distance, and flight path.
	Let's see the debunkers beat that.
	Lewis in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, listening to WSN.
	Thank you very much, my friend, and you're exactly right.
	This is pretty heavy stuff.
	If you want to see the object, or at least a still frame, and you will also see a tornado in the frame, zip up to my website right now at www.artbell.com.
	Whatever it was, it was fast, and it made turns, and we've got it at two different angles from two different sources.
	Pretty exciting stuff.
	And by the way, Lan indicated he was contacted By an agency he wouldn't relate.
	And by high-level NASA officials.
	So relating back to the news conference of the other day with regard to Roswell, where we don't investigate those
	kind of things anymore...
	...
	...
	Anyway, back to open line shortly.
	...
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time. Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	From Mark in Milwaukee, Art, could you please repeat the information about the radio frequency and signals being
	transmitted by Mirage?
	Sure.
	If you want to begin listening at about 10 o'clock a.m.
	Pacific Time today, and listen throughout the afternoon, you will hear several mere passes on the following frequency, 143.625.
	The voices you hear will be in Russian, and kind of garbled.
	And all I can tell you to do, unless you speak Russian, and I do have some friends that are interpreting A Russian for me, as best they can.
	What you want to listen for is the urgency and stress in the voice.
	That's 143.6 or .625, or decimal.
	That's VHF, folks.
	And on the better passes, it does not take much of a radio.
	A scanner will hear them just fine.
	So if you want to participate in a bit of an experiment tomorrow beginning at about 10 o'clock in the morning Pacific Time, park a scanner or a VHF radio of some sort on that frequency, and as I did today, you will hear Mir on each pass.
	Now, you may hear them for a period of time ranging from a minute to up to 10 minutes, depending on the pass.
	And there's one more thing I want you to observe for me.
	One indication that Mir is tumbling would be that the signal is not steady.
	In other words, as you have a satellite pass, you will acquire the signal, it'll be weak, and it will generally slowly build to its strongest point, and then as it heads toward the other horizon, it will begin to weaken.
	That is the nature of satellite signals.
	If the craft is steady.
	In other words, at a proper attitude.
	Now, if the signal you hear constantly varies in strength from what we call pegging the needle, very strong when it is directly over you, to zero, you're going to want to time the difference between when the signal is strong and when it is weak.
	And that will tell you the rough rotation or tumble of the spacecraft.
	And this is, if now, only now, being reported by CNN.
	It's something I noted earlier today.
	And as I noted earlier in the program, they don't tell you the truth about these things.
	So be very cautious about what you hear on CNN, or anywhere else for that matter.
	Because you remember the minor fire they had on Mir?
	It wasn't minor at all.
	It was very serious.
	It was a fire that raged for 14 minutes and nearly caused the abandonment of Mir then.
	They lied.
	They lie.
	So, if you want to try and listen yourself, 143.625.
	uh... one forty three point six to five west of the rockies you're on the air
	and this is going to have a lot more of the damage they're trying to convince
	us that they dropped the damage Well, hi there, Glenda.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing just fine.
	I had two questions that I wanted to ask you first.
	May I ask you one first?
	Uh-huh.
	How are the people of Roswell generally reacting?
	I mean, what's the buzz there in town to the stupid Air Force news conference the other day?
	Nobody believes it.
	Nobody believes it.
	I was just wondering, for your bumper music, they have a real cute song.
	I don't know if you've heard it or not.
	It's called Johnny Wrote the UFO.
	It's about the UFO in 1947.
	And I was wondering if I can send you the disc of it.
	You may indeed.
	And I didn't know if it was lawful to do that or not.
	Sure, it's lawful.
	Also, another thing I wanted to ask you, several people that I know listen to your show, and the Time Traveler from 2055?
	Oh, yes.
	We had all written down the dates on our calendars, and it was the 27th of June.
	That's what everybody's saying, yeah.
	So, I just wanted to check on that.
	And actually, to be accurate, it was not the Time Traveler from 2055, but from 20... I can't remember, like 2017 or something.
	Oh.
	I've got a way to contact him.
	uh... he was nevertheless awfully close uh...
	Uh huh.
	there was that big transportation tragedy uh... down in texas uh...
	uh... but i think you're right it was not the twenty fourth i think it was a
	twenty seventh i'm not sure that i was waiting for someone else to call in
	they were fixing to have our big ufo festival down here Oh, I know.
	And Whitley Striever's gonna be here.
	I guess you knew that.
	Oh, I know.
	And the Moat and Howl.
	Oh, yes.
	All the big ones, so we're really excited about it.
	And I really love your show, and congratulations on your award.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	And take care.
	Yes, I was very honored to receive that award.
	Very honored.
	Very nice.
	And I'm up for another one.
	This one, even bigger, it comes from the National Association of Broadcasters, and it's the Marconi.
	The Marconi.
	Marconi is somebody, of course, that I greatly respect anyway, so I am particularly interested in the Marconi, and I'm very honored to be in the final five.
	We'll see what happens.
	That won't be until, or at least we won't know until September.
	You know how it goes.
	Voting by program directors and managers and so forth.
	And then it is tabulated by the accounting firm, the same one that does the Oscars, I suppose.
	And the results are not known until the NAB conference in New Orleans in September.
	But we're probably going to go down there for it.
	And either way, you know, winning or not winning, honestly, and I really do mean this, you know, it's always nice to win, but it's a real honor to be nominated, frankly, for it.
	It's a very high honor.
	The National Association of Broadcasters is, as you know, the largest organization representing broadcasters in the country.
	So there you have it.
	Back to the lines we go.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, R?
	Yes, sir.
	I was wondering if you were planning on opening your timeline ever again?
	Of course.
	You are?
	Of course.
	I, you know, never say never, I have learned.
	Okay.
	Well, that's all.
	That's it, huh?
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	Well, wait a minute.
	If I were to open my timeline, would you be a caller?
	Oh, no.
	So you are not a time traveler?
	No, I was just interested in... Alright, thank you.
	I've had every form of line you can imagine.
	The timeline, I've got to admit, was pretty unique.
	Time travelers.
	Boy, and I had a couple of winners, too.
	Hope to hear from them again.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	My name is David.
	I'm in southern Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	And would I be able to tell you quickly about a sighting I saw about 18 years ago?
	Well, you can, but that's an awful long time ago.
	Well, uh, it was on the Hudson River.
	My wife and I were traveling out of, uh, New York State on the, uh, on the, uh, Palisades Parkway.
	And, uh, it was a beautiful clear evening, and, uh, about 11 o'clock at night.
	And, uh, from Yonkers across the Hudson came a flash of light suddenly, and it stopped, uh, Right at the edge of the Hudson River, and the lights dimmed in the front.
	The craft was facing west.
	We were looking at it south.
	We were heading south.
	I saw a side view profile of it.
	I saw it sitting there, motionless, right above the trees, my wife and I. What was the shape?
	It was a long, from the side view, it was rectangular.
	Because I saw the flat black of the side, and I couldn't, you know, it was just flat black.
	The bottom of the craft, because of my perspective and where we were, just past the Geological Institute, the government institute on the Hudson River there, they were about a quarter of a mile behind us, north.
	And the craft, from the tops of the trees, That were just below it.
	It seemed just below it.
	I thought it was much closer, but it was about a mile away because of the size of it.
	The size of the length of it was about 150 to 200 yards long.
	That's big.
	Yes.
	And then it sat there for long enough to where the traffic was light, but it stopped.
	I stopped my car and got out and stood there and watched it.
	My wife kind of held her.
	Hands in her face as she was standing.
	I mean, sitting in the car.
	That's exactly the way my wife reacts.
	Yeah.
	And then I stood there and I watched this thing.
	And it just sat motionless in the front of the lights, which were facing, like I said, west.
	So it was a side profile.
	I could see, like, the first three lights.
	So it must have been a curved front or something.
	Or maybe it was maybe facing a little bit north, if you know what I mean.
	And they were oscillating from side to side.
	Then it just went straight up.
	And then we all stood there and watched it go straight up and it stopped.
	Then it turned and it shot north, past the Tapanzi Bridge.
	And then it stopped past the Papanzee Bridge because we could watch the lights stop.
	Where are you now, by the way?
	I live in Oregon.
	Oregon.
	Oh, that's right.
	You told me.
	Yes, we moved.
	You moved.
	All right.
	I can still hear the New York, New Jersey and you.
	Yes.
	And then the craft stopped and then it shot back towards us right along the Hudson River.
	Yes.
	And went straight out over the ocean, over Manhattan Island, over Long Island and then straight out.
	And I'll never forget that.
	Of course not.
	I very much appreciate your report.
	And that is so typical of what so many million Americans have seen.
	And then we have news conferences like the one they had at Roswell the other day.
	It's not going to wash anymore.
	A boomerang shaped craft appeared north of Las Vegas the other day.
	In the middle of all this brouhaha about Phoenix and about Roswell, there was a major sighting near me.
	I didn't see it, but many, many Las Vegans did.
	And I must tell you, the number of sightings is increasing dramatically.
	So it seems to me they're not going to be able to keep this at the chuckle point very much longer, because there's a lot of people not laughing.
	There's clearly something going on in our skies, and it's being photographed and videotaped by all kinds of people, including the professional we had on last hour, Lan, and others.
	I mean, how long can the evidence be ignored?
	How long will we continue to accept statements, like Colonel Haynes made, that, you know, we don't investigate those things anymore?
	As Lance said, that's a pile of crap.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	I just want to confirm that it was the 27th that I wrote down in my notes for the Time Traveler.
	OK.
	So that was very interesting.
	I can't wait to see what happens.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Thank you very much.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Paula calling from KFRE Territory.
	KFRE in Fresno.
	Right.
	Tuesday night, I was...
	Flipping through channels, and I happened to catch the latter part of Tony Brown's journal on PBS.
	Yes.
	He was talking about the Gulf War Syndrome.
	Yes.
	It really amazes me as to what the government can do to the people of the United States.
	He read off a law where the Department of Defense can test Any biological... It's U.S.
	Title 50?
	I believe that's what it was.
	Yes.
	With a 30 days notification to some sort of civilian official, they can test biological or chemical agents on the American public.
	Right.
	And they have done this to school kids without the parents' consent.
	Well, thank you.
	They've done it to lots of people without consent.
	Adults and children.
	It's a kind of a sad thing when you realize that your government is a not so truthful and honest as you one time thought they were.
	It's a kind of a sad process to begin realizing that.
	I still think we've got the best place to live on the planet but there's a lot of sad things going on out there and A lot of behavior by our own government that I sure wouldn't be proud of.
	How about you?
	First time caller line, you're on the air, hi.
	Hi, how are you?
	I'm fine, where are you?
	I'm in Phoenix.
	Phoenix, ground zero we call it these days, yes.
	You speculated the other night, what was the history of Phoenix, Arizona?
	Well, Richard did, yes.
	Well, whoever.
	I sent you an email, I'm sure you get too many to have seen it, but the Hohokam Indians settled the Valley of the Sun.
	Oh, I did see that.
	Okay.
	Remember?
	And dug some of those... Canals.
	Canals, yes.
	I dug them all, I believe.
	And using, just digging with clamshells or whatever, were only off by five degrees.
	And then they disappeared suddenly without a trace.
	And perhaps they were space travelers who needed to set down for a while.
	Perhaps.
	and then took off. So that was just my idea.
	Well, it could be. Anything could be. But Phoenix is a very unusual place. There's no question about that.
	Uh huh. So we have a meteor crater outside of Flagstaff. We're going up to see it next week.
	I was wondering, you know, I read one of your really old postings here.
	Let me see, I bookmarked it.
	Let's see if I can find it.
	It was, oh, the letters that came from the man whose grandfather had been communicated with.
	Oh, with regard to arts parts.
	Yes, and he mentioned that he couldn't set off his antimatter whatever to get himself Back into orbit, because he would take out the entire states of Arizona and California and whatever.
	That's correct.
	In other words, some sort of hyperdrive, whatever you want to call it.
	Yeah, whatever.
	So I was wondering if perhaps the meteor crater that we have is in fact a blast-off site.
	See, aren't I imaginative?
	You are, but you are consistent with what he said.
	Thank you.
	That were they to turn on the drive that they would normally use only once they were in a vacuum, that you would destroy a significant portion of any landmass below that blast.
	And that's entirely reasonable to conclude if you had something that was operating with that kind of force generated by matter and antimatter.
	Which would certainly be a significant step above nuclear power.
	So you can imagine what the results would be.
	All right, we're going to pause here at the top of the hour, and we're going to come back and continue for the last couple of hours of the show this morning with open lines and anything you want to talk about.
	Listen, I want to warn you, or actually, yeah, warn you, I guess.
	That we have got David Oates doing reversals on Colonel Haynes.
	David is hard at work at that on my request, and in all likelihood, if he's got them done, we'll have David on for a period of time, Friday night, with reversals on Colonel Haynes.
	You know, the colonel who did the Roswell press conference?
	That should be Friday night, Saturday morning, right here.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 25th 1997
	She's coming in for a bloody fight The moonlit wings reflect the stars $
	Got a black magic woman She's coming in 1235s when that wings reflect the stars
	that guide the towards salvation I stopped an old man along the way hoping to find some old
	That guide me toward salvation I stopped an old man along the way
	Hoping to find some old forgotten words Or ancient melodies
	forgotten words or ancient He turned to me as if to say hurry boy, it's waiting there
	for you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from June 25th, 1997.
	Good morning.
	When you hear my bumper music, what you're hearing is the music that I love.
	I've collected it over the years.
	And that's one of them.
	Good morning everybody.
	The Magellan GPS 2000 Satellite Navigation System.
	Well, as I say, there's an end to everything.
	And tonight is it.
	that a hundred men or more could ever do.
	You better mark my words.
	God, I really love this song.
	God, I really love this song.
	Hell with it, let's listen to it.
	Pretty boy, she's waiting after you Gonna take a life to take me away from you
	There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do I bless the rains down in Africa
	For those of you who may not remember, that's a group called Toto.
	Remember that?
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
	Dear Art, My order for your book, The Quickening, somehow got lost in the shuffle, and after
	faxing you about it, was passed on to the publisher through a letter.
	Thank you very much.
	It took a while, but I got it.
	It was worth the wait.
	The Quickening was not the doomsday book that I thought it might be.
	It was well thought out, well researched, and documented.
	Your book was beautifully written, insightful, thought-provoking.
	A must-read for every intelligent human being with the ability to read.
	I pretty much had my head in the sand until I read the book.
	And the scary part is, I didn't think that I did.
	Now I realize how much I have not been aware of.
	If everyone read your book, maybe some of the negative trends that we are sliding into at such a rapid pace can be slowed or even stopped.
	Eliminate the ignorance that so many of our leaders and representatives are working to foster in our people.
	And maybe we can make our future brighter than it threatens to be if we keep ourselves in the dark, as I once was.
	Thanks again, Dory in Redding, California.
	Thank you, Dory.
	That's exactly right.
	It is not a doomsday book.
	And I guess that's what a lot of people thought it would be.
	No?
	It isn't.
	It is a chronicling.
	It is a well-documented reading of exactly where we are.
	Now, if nothing is done and we don't have a dramatic course change, there's going to be a big change in society.
	The Earth is not going to stop rotating.
	It will continue.
	Now, more tentatively, whether we're on it or not, is another question.
	But I am not so egotistical as to imagine we can destroy the Earth.
	We really can't.
	But our position here is rather tentative, you know.
	And it doesn't take a lot of change to change that situation.
	And cosmically, we've only really been here for a blink of an eye.
	And there is no assurance we're going to remain.
	About the only sure thing, and that's relatively sure, is that the Earth will continue to turn and revolve about the Sun.
	It is our place in it that is threatened.
	And it is threatened not by some external force, but by us.
	And that is what is documented in this book.
	So yes, I do urge you to read it.
	To get it, if you have an opportunity, whether you get a signed edition or not, there are going to be few signed editions left.
	Bless to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, is it while the commercial is on?
	We have a tape delay, sir.
	You're on the air.
	I see.
	Oh, fantastic.
	First of all, I want to say that, bless you.
	It's a blessing that you have a show like this, an open forum for the people.
	That is true.
	That is a blessing.
	Now, um, I want you to tell the people what the word obscurantism means.
	Obscurantism?
	Yes.
	Did I hear that correctly?
	Yes, obscurantism.
	Well, um, I don't know.
	Okay, well, obscurantism is a philosophy in which... The derivation of the word would be obscure, I'm sure, would it not?
	Well, yes, it's stopping the spread of truth so that certain individuals have the truth And they can use that truth as power over the masses who they misinform purposefully.
	Okay.
	Okay?
	Yeah, otherwise a synonym would be, uh, uh, disinformation.
	Exactly.
	But it's a bit more than that.
	It's a bit more than that because, um, but I won't go into that, into the semantics of it, but that's what the government has practiced.
	Now, the lady who called earlier that said that there would be a, uh, a terrible, uh, relash As far as all of the religions of the Earth?
	Oh, yes.
	If the extraterrestrials were to display themselves?
	Get away from your phone a little.
	You're kind of distorted, yes.
	Oh, okay.
	Let me put it down a little bit.
	Is this a little better?
	Yeah, just get away from the mouthpiece a little bit.
	Okay.
	That's better.
	Is this okay?
	See, I'm talking too loud.
	I'm from New York.
	I talk too loud.
	There's several points I wanted to make.
	Not only the religious, all of the major religions would be in jeopardy, but the monetary systems of the world as well, because these individuals would be able to provide gold, diamonds, some other places.
	I also wanted, you just made a comment that the Earth would not be destroyed.
	I haven't read your book, The Quickening, but Nikola Tesla Well, such things no doubt have occurred, but they occur over a time span that makes human presence look like the blink of an eye.
	And so the odds are really pretty good, sir, that we would cease being on the Earth rather than the Earth ceasing to support us.
	What has been the most catastrophic incident that humanity has ever witnessed since humanity has existed?
	Well, let's see, the most catastrophic, if you're referring to Earth changes... Not just Earth changes, but witnessed by humanity, the most catastrophic thing we have ever seen.
	Oh, I don't know, that's subjective, I mean... It's not subjective.
	Yes it is, it is subjective.
	When the comet crashed into Jupiter two years ago, The second piece of the comet has a magnitude of hundreds of millions of times the magnitude of the bomb that was dropped in Hiroshima, and left a mark larger than the planet Earth.
	Well, suppose though, I were to say to you, what about the crucifixion of Christ?
	Okay, we can get into that first of all.
	Alright, you see what I mean by subjective?
	I mean witness.
	We have a witness.
	This is a scientific aspect.
	I'm trying to make a point.
	Astronomy is the one that accurately predicted exactly where that comet would hit and at what time, and had to take into consideration the time-space continuum within those calculations.
	The one thing astronomy was unable to predict, though, was that that would break into about 21 pieces, I believe it was.
	Yeah, 19 or 21, and it was the second piece that had the largest impact.
	The repercussions, it takes light more than a half hour for us to have seen the actual occurrence, because the speed of light is 186.2,000 miles per second.
	So it took over half an hour for us to see the light of that.
	Now, Jupiter... What is your point?
	I'm trying to make a point that the shock waves from that explosion From that comet attacking Jupiter?
	Not attacking, but exploding now?
	Yes.
	Much of those shockwaves have been entering the Earth's atmosphere for the last couple of months.
	Oh, there's no question about it.
	Like a stone thrown into the center of a pond, the ripples extend outward.
	There's no question about that now.
	There's certainly lots of room for argument about whether those shockwaves, as they hit Earth, You know, there was some speculation about setting off some sort of chain reaction, vibratory response on Earth that would shatter things, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.
	A more interesting argument is, what would have occurred had those, had Shoemaker-Levy 9, even one piece of it, crashed instead of into Jupiter, into Earth?
	You know, we'd be somebody's future petroleum.
	And maybe that's the way things go.
	Maybe it's a race to see if we can develop enough technology to prevent something like that from occurring before we are turned into petroleum.
	I don't know.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, this is Joe from Reading.
	Hi, Joe.
	I have a question.
	Well, I got a question.
	Two questions and a guest, whatever you call it, suggestion.
	Go ahead.
	First question is about the Roswell incident.
	Yes.
	Isn't there a newspaper article from 1947 that indicates... Of course.
	...about the thing?
	How come nobody's talking about it?
	Well, there are.
	I mean, newspaper, radio broadcasts, of course, all of that.
	And that was roundly ignored by the Air Force in their report the other day, case closed.
	Look, it's an insult to the intelligence of the American people what was done the other day.
	Don't tell me about it.
	I don't believe anything the government says.
	And a lot of American people are apparently well prepared to be insulted without any further investigation.
	I mean, do these people take us for idiots or something?
	I mean, do they think the American people on a whole are a bunch of dummies?
	I was out of play on words.
	I don't know.
	Um, the answer must be yes, uh, or we can conclude their behavior was designed to actually cause more people to believe that something occurred in 1947, and they are lying.
	I know, but I've got this feeling, I've just got this really intense feeling, and I've had it for a couple years at some time, between now and probably 2000 or something, something's gonna happen, there's gonna be undeniable proof, and they can't lie anymore.
	Yes.
	And after that happens, who knows what.
	Well, the only part of it I don't like is Chandler.
	I appreciate the call.
	called silicon or again if you have any idea where that is i do not
	it's an indian reservation is new i don't know if you want his last name well not right now
	but he's a spirit channeler uh...
	indian medicine man and profit
	well the only part of it i don't like his channeler i appreciate the call the
	only part of it i don't like his channeler trust channeled information
	Bye!
	That is not to say, and I always catch a lot of flack for this, that channeling, some channeling, is not real.
	Or that spirits speak through people who are living.
	My only argument against channeling in general is that it affords too much opportunity for fraud.
	That's always been my feeling about channeling.
	I mean, I could sit here and I could give you, and I have done it A great example of what I might sound like if I were suddenly channeling the Great Orb.
	The Great Orb would begin speaking of prophecy and things to come.
	And I could do that with, believe me, a very convincing voice.
	And if I could do it, then I figure a lot of other people can do it too.
	So it doesn't mean channeling isn't real, it just means There's too damn much room for fraud.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Ah, good morning.
	Is this Art Bell?
	Yes.
	Ah, hello, Art Bell.
	What a great show you have.
	Well, thank you.
	I'm calling from really watching the C-SPAN interview last night with Colonel John Haines.
	Now, that was not an example of the quickening.
	That was an example of the thickening.
	Yeah, well, whatever.
	You know, I mean, this guy really earned himself and the whole Air Force a whole new award.
	I can envision it.
	A parachute in gold.
	Very nice.
	Nice pair of wings, a guy with a fishing pole, and a fish.
	Big eyes, kind of bony, and underneath it, something fishy, 47 and 97.
	Well, I'll tell you, we've got David Oates work reversals of The Colonel, and it will be very interesting.
	You can imagine it might go either way, I have no way of knowing right now, but Either the colonel was being honest and did not know and was just out there doing the impossible job he was asked to do, or he knew what the real thing going on was.
	Well, that is the question, isn't it?
	Well, the question will be answered.
	I have to say, as a consumer, as a watcher, I consider myself a fair witness in the Midwest.
	There was something fishy about that.
	Very fishy.
	You know, part of the reason I say that is What was their positioning?
	They had this kind of lackadaisical posturing.
	Yeah, the whole thing was compressed, time compressed.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air, good morning.
	Hello, I'd like to ask about Richard Hogan.
	I have something very important to say, something that's never been brought up before, but first I'd like to ask Richard Hoagland, Electrogravatics and its occurrence in nature.
	Have you guys reported anything about that?
	Anything on your show about that?
	My response immediately is, huh?
	Electrogravatics?
	Electrogravatics.
	What about it?
	Richard Hoagland and... Richard Hoagland, yes.
	And its occurrence in nature.
	I'm guessing your response will take it as a no.
	My response is, I don't know what you're talking about.
	Okay, I'll take it as a no.
	Here's what I want to say.
	The Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Sea off of Japan.
	There are jillions of disappearances there every year on the average that you never hear about.
	It turns out all eels from Europe and America go to the Devil's Triangle to breed and are never seen again.
	And all the eels of Asia go to the Devil's Sea, to that area.
	I checked on the mating I think I saw that movie.
	Did you?
	and uh...
	it was really a mystery and the fact that you know those two parts
	well had you heard about the ship the ship yes
	which one uh... the ship that uh...
	well was found here recently in the desert uh... it was reported lost originally in the bermuda
	triangle and it showed up to suddenly on its side here in the desert
	i think i saw that movie it was a good movie too
	and i'm digging it So the beginning of close encounters is a third kind.
	Remember that?
	On the desert airplanes.
	It was a fiction spun, but reality rules.
	How about this?
	Richard Hoagland has a research paper about electrogravatics and its occurrence and nature.
	He requested from the author.
	What author?
	The author of... What's the name of the author?
	His name is Christopher Baer.
	He wrote Principles of Flight about electrogravatics.
	Anti-gravity.
	The only principles of flight that I'm familiar with regard aerodynamics except, of course, modern rocketry.
	There are four principles of flight.
	Aerodynamics being one.
	There's buoyancy.
	There's propulsion.
	And there's electromagnetic repulsion.
	All four principles of flight are applied science in nature.
	Well, a couple of those are theories, not laws.
	What are you talking about?
	We don't understand the exact nature of gravity, period.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	I'm not talking about gravity right now.
	I'm talking about the first four principles of flight.
	Two of them that you named involve gravity.
	Well, yes, okay.
	Okay, so we don't fully understand the nature of gravity is what I said.
	We understand the nature of buoyancy.
	We understand the nature of propulsion, aerodynamics, and electromagnetic repulsion in theory.
	Well, we understand that opposite poles push away from each other, but we don't understand what causes gravity.
	Believe me, sir, we don't.
	Talk to the scientists.
	Ask Richard Hoagland.
	We don't understand the exact nature of it.
	Many people, including Richard and others, have theories about what gravity is.
	But we don't really know.
	Is it a push?
	Is it a pull?
	Is it related to mass?
	We think these things are true, but we don't really know because we haven't proven them yet.
	A couple of those are definitely, at this point, just theories.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this Somewhere in Time.
	Hello, and welcome to another episode of Somewhere in Time.
	My name is Sarah.
	And I'm going to be your host for this episode.
	And I'm going to be your host for this episode.
	My mind had fallen to the point of deep surrender Oh yeah, and I had met my destiny in quite a similar way
	The mystery book on the shelf is always keeping itself Waterloo, I was defeated once more
	Waterloo, promise to love me forevermore Waterloo, couldn't escape if I wanted you
	Waterloo, knowing my fate is to meet you Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Good morning, I must be in an Abba kind of mood this morning.
	That's it, give it up.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring coast to coast a.m. from June 25th 1997 uh... David says, David a frequent faxer says, Dear Art,
	within ninety six hours the Mir mission will be aborted
	Thank you.
	Well, I can't know that's true, David, but I would generally, my general sense would be to agree with you.
	That there's a great deal we're not being told and that they have not even discovered yet about the damaged Mirror.
	And they are going to have to get out.
	My only comment would be they ought to be preparing the uh... Atlanta shuttle just in case because should there be difficulty with the uh... the Soyuz uh... there would be dead men in space and so I would say prepare the Atlantis just in case just in case Soyuz uh... which they uh... which everybody says is a very functional uh... if somewhat cramped return craft uh... if something should go wrong
	Uh, or for some reason, uh, the power should go south and they cannot power up Soyuz or one thing or another.
	I just think it would be to use a Bushism prudent to have the Atlantis ready.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Craig from Southeast Michigan.
	How you doing, Craig?
	Oh, not bad.
	I've been trying to get ahold of you for a long time now.
	I saw the same thing you did, the black silent triangles.
	Oh, yes.
	Well, many, many, many people have seen triangles or boomerangs.
	The latest sighting, mass sighting, being in Las Vegas a couple of days ago.
	Well, I think I might know what it is.
	You know, I do want to think that it's not from this world, but I live by Selfridge Air National Guard Base.
	Yes.
	Four of these were flying from that direction.
	It was like three years ago to the date.
	There were perfect triangles, three of them were in a triangle formation, and the fourth one was flying from the outside of the triangle to the inside, backwards to the outside.
	Were they making any noise?
	No, none at all.
	How high up were they?
	Well, I thought it was a low ceiling that night, because I live off of Main thoroughfare, and it's well lit, and it was like an orange sky that night.
	Yes.
	And so I thought that the ceiling was kind of low, and so I estimated that they were the size of a regular military jet.
	And how fast did they appear to be going?
	They appeared to be going slower than a Cessna, than a small All right, the one I saw was doing about 30 miles an hour.
	There's nothing that I know of that will support itself in an aerodynamic flight at that speed.
	Way, way, way below the stall speed of just even a hang glider.
	Yeah, well I saw a program where two guys described the same thing that I saw and they said it was called the Black Manta TR-3A.
	I don't know if that... Yeah, but that has a propulsion system that one would hear.
	Oh really?
	Okay, I didn't hear that.
	In other words, something has to push it along, something has to support it.
	It has to be pushed along at a speed that will provide lift.
	That's my understanding of aerodynamic flight.
	And all the airplanes I've been in have one way or the other done that.
	And I've been in everything from hang gliders to the Concorde.
	So, You know, what I saw, I can't account for in terms of any sort of conventional explanation at all.
	Not at all.
	And does that mean or guarantee it's from somewhere else?
	No, of course not.
	But if we could follow it, it's a big story either way.
	That's the way I look at it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, sorry about that.
	Sarai.
	Okay.
	Where are you?
	Oh, I'm in Hawaii.
	Hawaii?
	Yeah, Oahu.
	Oh, Oahu, the main island.
	Right.
	The place where it all happens.
	Turn your radio off, please, sir.
	Second request.
	Oh.
	You got it?
	Yep.
	Good.
	Now proceed.
	Well, I got a question.
	Who's the guy who makes the backward speech?
	David Oates.
	Oh yeah.
	He doesn't make it.
	Oh yeah, he records it.
	If someone records someone's speech while it's going backwards and you play that speech backwards, will it come to the original when you played it?
	In other words, if you played If you turn backwards speech around, would it be forward?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay.
	Alright?
	Yep.
	Well, I'm glad that answered it for you.
	That was a lot of pain to go through to get all that, but yes.
	What is played forward can be played in reverse.
	What is played in reverse will be indeed what was said forward.
	In other words, put another way, reverse speech is nothing but a precise Mirror image of what is said forward, but in reverse.
	I hope that doesn't confuse you.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	You had a caller from Phoenix talking about the Hohokam Indians.
	Yes.
	That was just one of three Indian civilizations that dated back to 300 B.C.
	Yeah, well, Phoenix has a very rich history.
	And the Hohokam built Casa Grande in the 14th century.
	That was before Christopher Columbus.
	And the fourth level of the water, now the Casa Grande Ruins National Monument is theorized to have been used for astronomical observation.
	Well, I wouldn't doubt it.
	There are many civilizations that I think may have come before ours.
	That observe things in the sky.
	That observed the way stars moved.
	There are charts and graphs that have been found.
	There are even cave pictures that would indicate that they were studying the heavens long ago.
	There are even glyphs that would indicate That there were visitors, that they saw ships much like the ones we are describing today.
	So yes, oh yes.
	There could be a grand cycle.
	And it could be that we have come and gone many times before.
	I'll say it again.
	Humanity's present stay on Earth, in the grander scheme of things, is but a blink of the eye.
	But a blink.
	And it may be that I has been blinking before.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Oh, Carson, California, Art.
	Hello there.
	Haven't talked to you for ages.
	Been a while, yes.
	Yeah, um, I, uh, turned you on at... Call the wild card lines, area 702-727-1295.
	Until after midnight.
	Yup.
	And, um, I'm wondering, is that, uh, signal from Mir, uh, strong enough to, uh, come through, uh, A mobile homer would have to be outside to pick it up on a... Oh, I would guess you'd probably have to be outside.
	I was afraid of that.
	If I can get some of the repeaters running, the stronger ones, but as far as, you know, something that far away, I didn't know if I needed a special... Oh, are you referring... No, wait a minute now.
	Are you referring to 143... Yeah.
	625?
	Yeah.
	No, that's not going to come true.
	I mean, if you're sitting in there with a little stick on a scanner inside a metal trailer, forget it.
	Yeah, well, I didn't know.
	That's why I was surprised at that.
	You said it was coming real strong.
	I didn't know if you had to have a dish.
	Now, if you've got the scanner to a window, and you've got a pass directly overhead, which you probably have around sometime between 10 and 1, you'll probably hear it.
	Yeah, well, I've tried to listen before with a scrotum, and all I could hear was just noise.
	I didn't hear much of anything.
	So I didn't know if it was too weak of a signal to go through.
	Now that I've figured something that far away... Well, it depends on the pass.
	I mean, when the mirror is more or less over you, or within degrees of over you, it's an extremely strong signal.
	Because there's nothing in the way.
	It's VHF.
	The highest tower in the world.
	You know, I know that you and Bob, I think, over there in San Jose there, were talking about it one time several years ago.
	I guess it passed overhead.
	Oh, I've talked to Mir several times.
	I talked to Mir about a month and a half ago.
	I had a very nice conversation with him.
	Uh-huh.
	I see.
	Is there any way, with Hong Kong going back to China, is there any way you'd be able to get some Recordings off of some kind of a website where the ceremony would be taking place and possibly replay them back on your program, you know, for the public.
	No, if I want to know what's going on, I'll just call Emily Lau in Hong Kong and she'll tell me.
	All right?
	Well, would you think you'd be able to do that on the 30th here?
	It'd be the first over there, so it'd have to be...
	Yeah, I'll see if I can arrange it.
	I've got Emily's number in Hong Kong, so we'll see.
	Yeah, that'd be something to do, because I'd sure be interested to get an insider's view of what happens after it changes over, rather than all the pomp and circumstances.
	Yeah, there's not going to be anything, thank you, very immediate to even notice.
	What's going to occur in Hong Kong?
	There will be a few things, but it'll be like the slowly boiling frog syndrome.
	In other words, it has already begun.
	The legislature in Hong Kong has been replaced.
	There have already been dictates that there will be no public demonstrations against the government.
	And in all likelihood, the people of Hong Kong are not going to do that.
	They well remember the Chinese government and how it handles such things, and even though they have enjoyed the Taste of freedom for a long time.
	They're probably going to hope for the best.
	You're not going to see much in the way of demonstration.
	Everybody's going to hope the economic situation remains roughly the same, particularly and certainly the residents.
	And so until and unless there becomes economic downturn as a result of the government, you won't see much protest.
	Much to the distress of Emily Lau and people like her.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	No?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Is this Art Bell?
	Yes, it is.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	I just did, sir.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	Last Friday evening, about 11 o'clock in Vegas time, a neighbor and I saw a bright light up in the sky.
	And we had just sat in one spot.
	It didn't move.
	It didn't go any place.
	And we watched it until 2 o'clock in the morning.
	And it stayed in the same level for over an hour.
	And then it moved up maybe 50 to 100 feet.
	And we saw a circle of red lights above it.
	And then they went off in a Like an angle in a straight, you know, a line, but off at an angle.
	And they disappear.
	And then maybe 10 minutes later, you'd see them back around in a circle.
	So what do you think you saw?
	I don't know.
	The two of us sat there and watched that thing.
	And we even went outside and watched it.
	And it it didn't move.
	I mean, it just sat in one spot.
	For over an hour, and then when it did go up a little higher, that's when we noticed those red lights.
	Alright, well there was, in addition to that, a very serious sighting of what is being called a boomerang kind of object in the Las Vegas area, north of Las Vegas.
	And we're getting more and more of these reports.
	It seems like the southwest is hot.
	Hot, hot, hot.
	Las Vegas.
	My area.
	The Southwest.
	For some reason, uh, now experiencing almost, in terms of quantity, what Mexico City had.
	So, something's a-cookin' out there, huh?
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	KQMS, trending California.
	Oh, you made it in.
	I did.
	Yeah, you know, this time change in your show, it kind of feels like daylight savings time or something.
	Well, you can look at it that way if you want to.
	A one-hour change.
	I know.
	Well, I'm going to... It took me a little time to adjust.
	I'm just about adjusted now.
	Well, that's good.
	You know, that was really weird.
	I thought science understood gravity.
	No.
	You know, I've always wanted to ask somebody, how come the water didn't spin off the Earth?
	Mm-hmm.
	But I thought it would be a really stupid question.
	I thought everybody knew something that I didn't.
	No.
	So I never really asked.
	No, I mean, we observe gravity.
	But we don't understand fully why it does what it does.
	In other words, you know, Newton did it.
	You know, drop the apple.
	Remember that?
	Well, no, I wasn't there.
	Well, I mean, you remember the story they told you that in school, probably.
	Well, yeah.
	I thought he was a lot more brilliant than that, though.
	Well, I mean, you can do it yourself.
	Drop an apple, and inevitably it hits the floor.
	I mean, watch this.
	See, I'll do it with a lighter.
	Boom.
	Hit the floor.
	Yeah, but I don't think I can speak it out loud.
	So something is causing it to go from here to there.
	And we're not flying off the Earth, so there is an effect, but we don't exactly understand what it is.
	I was thinking, if it was a pull from within, wouldn't we all be a lot shorter?
	Say that again?
	Oh, you mean if it was a pull and... Yeah, from within, like there's a big magnet in there.
	I was thinking we'd all be a lot shorter.
	Um... I'm going to have to give that some thought.
	Me too.
	I think this time compression thing is cool, because if I'm late for work, I can just say, hey.
	You know, I used to say that, well, I was abducted by aliens.
	You're going to tell your boss time compression, huh?
	Yeah, it's accepted by the U.S.
	military.
	You know, in fact, the next time that somebody is AWOL, they can come back and go, sir, it was time compression.
	Time compression.
	That's exactly right.
	Or, hey, here's one for you, because I know how you feel about taxes.
	You write that in there, you say, I'm sorry, time compression, I paid you already.
	You are suffering from time compression.
	That's right.
	That's what you should do.
	Somehow, I just don't think it's going to work in these cases.
	No, no, no.
	And the next time you voice that one off on your boss, I'll be anxious to hear the result.
	He likes the abducted by aliens ones.
	Well, he knows you well then.
	I'm late because I was abducted by aliens.
	Hey, you know what?
	The interview that I think you should put in the time capsule, I guess you could put two.
	But the one I want you to put in would be Pam the Lizard Lady.
	You like Pam?
	That was so funny.
	You have no idea the trouble that interview caused.
	Yes, I do.
	Oh, man.
	And I don't care either.
	I had more fun with that.
	Yeah, so you could put that one in.
	People get so distressed.
	I mean, people have no sense of humor.
	I guess not.
	Not whatsoever.
	You know, or you could be really funny and just put that one in.
	Who is this Art Pell guy?
	Or what about that lawyer I had on not long ago?
	She caused a lot of trouble, too.
	Hey, you know, I really liked her.
	So did I. I could tell from your tone of voice that she had no qualifications whatsoever to speak for ugly people.
	Well, she tried to.
	No, no, no.
	She tried to voice it off that, well, ugly people have to be beautiful from the inside.
	Let me tell you something.
	The CNN poll You said that 56% of men slept with people they didn't even like.
	So what's inside?
	Does it mean diddly?
	Think about it.
	Think about it.
	Well, it is, of course, partially true.
	It's a lot true.
	No, no, it's partially true.
	I mean, what's inside does count.
	You'll realize that as you get older.
	Yeah, but I don't want to be old and pass shelf life and then have some old, you know, Your view of shelf life in general will shift as you age.
	Thank God.
	Trust me on this.
	Thank God.
	I'm already past my half shelf life.
	But there is absolute truth in the fact that, you know, ugly is as ugly does.
	You know what?
	Statistics don't bear out her theories, though.
	That you can be beautiful and sexy from the inside and still compete and follow my theories.
	And you can be successful in business, isn't it?
	Rosalie Osiris, that's who it was.
	That's exactly... I know who it was.
	Do you forget her name?
	Yeah.
	Well, your shelf life is kind of getting up there in years, too.
	I didn't forget her picture, though.
	I know you did.
	I could tell your jaw was like, you're tripping over your lips.
	Were you able to get up on the web and see a photograph?
	I didn't need to get up on the website and see your face.
	Oh, man.
	You were tripping over your lips every time you sat down.
	Absolutely true.
	You know what?
	I was almost embarrassed for you.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I was like, oh my God.
	Everybody's going to think this guy's a real nutcase now.
	You want to know the truth?
	I actually enjoy doing things that upset people.
	I know.
	That's why I call my morning show here, and I like vent.
	And I said, you know, if everybody hates me, then just according to the bell.
	I'll tell you the proof.
	I'll tell you the proof of it.
	I upset a lot of morning shows.
	I'm not kidding.
	Well, yeah, it's just like you say.
	So if everybody hates you, well, you know what?
	If that's very true, then... Listen, listen.
	That's it.
	Yeah, well, that's true.
	That's it.
	We're out of time.
	Say goodnight.
	Hey, goodnight Cosmos, America, Canada, and everybody.
	Remember, if you're late for work, time compression.

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