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June 18, 1997 - Art Bell
36:50
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - Mars Pathfinder (hour 1)
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Time Text
Now, the question I was trying to get out prior to the break, at the top of the hour, was simply, there has been a very great deal of careful, even at times painful documentation by Richard, of the forces and the synchronicity of what's going on, 30 years of it, which points, in his opinion, to what will occur with Mars Pathfinder.
Uh, here is a rather harsh response to what he said.
Art, it seems everyone and everything has a very deep meaning and significance.
In other words, that silly woman-caller.
Wake up, Art.
Wake up, Richard.
We're little, furry, insignificant animals living near a rather normal star amongst billions.
The ridiculous egotism and your self-importance And the self-importance of nearly all your guests is laughable.
How's that for a data point from Dan in Van Nuys?
Sorry, Dan.
You know, this is an interesting philosophical juncture.
Yes.
Because Dan's perspective is of an awful lot of people.
You bet.
And it is killing us.
Now, my perspective is different.
I don't know whether we're just little furry creatures near a normal star, to quote my dear friend Carl, or whether Carl has gone on to more interesting and wondrous things and is sitting somewhere when the rest of us are all going to get with the program now.
Because, you see, that's what this is all about.
It's about finding out.
Dan has his mind made up.
I don't.
I'm following a yellow brick road.
And I'm gonna see what is behind the next curve and through the next door and over the next transom if I can.
I don't have an outcome that I'm presupposing or projecting.
I want to know.
Well, you are presupposing, though, that though you can't tell us specifically the method they will use, they will in some way delay the landing of Mars Pathfinder from July 4th to July 20th.
There's no magic here.
They'll use the thrusters, all right?
I understand.
The question is, what will the cover story be?
Okay, I don't care how they do it.
What you're saying is they will do it.
The method, I don't care.
You're saying they will do it.
This pattern is as robust as, and when you said opinion, no, this is not opinion.
Look, I have run these numbers, these landing site calculations past The people who got us to the moon, who are willing to stand front and center and be identified.
They don't want to be anonymous, they want to be identified out there so their colleagues can analyze this data from a data point of view.
They're the ones that affirm to me That for this pattern to be repeated over and over and over and over and over again, it can't be accidental.
Yes, there are a lot of rocks that make up your yellow brick road, and you're a long way down it right now.
Yep.
And the next conclusion is, if this has any projective meaning, they're not going to miss the biggie, which is what it's all pointing toward, which is, at some point, this story has to come to a catharsis.
There has to be a climax.
There has to be a point to 30, 40 years of weirdness and skullduggery and stinking around in the bushes and not telling people the truth while taking billions and billions from their pockets.
That may be this summer with a seminal event which would be if this thing lands in Sedonia and we get to see it on television and the ones that want to hide it don't succeed Then a whole new era, a whole new day, a new Phoenix will be born that will begin a transformation of Homo sapiens on this planet and a reconnection with an awful lot of mystery that currently most people aren't even aware of.
Richard?
And the forces arrayed against that art are pretty overwhelming.
Now, the reason I decided to take the high-risk, high-profile route tonight, and I put a lot of thought into this and discussed it with a lot of people in Enterprise, Is because people matter.
If this is more than just about little furry creatures around a G-type star, it means this physics is a palpable thing which can be altered by our very thoughts.
And what I'm hoping is that I can connect with enough of those 15 million plus people we keep talking about that listen to you every night.
And those people in their heart of hearts really want this new era to be born.
They really want to know.
And the collective of their wishes will help to overpower those who don't want us to know, who don't want us to grow, who don't want us to reach beyond our grasp.
And that's really the experiment tonight.
Because if we all kind of think about this and what it might mean, and the extraordinary new level of human drama that could unfold, right on our live television screens this summer, I think the good guys can win this time.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hello.
Hi.
All right.
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
Hey, this is great.
I share your sentiments about we're not small furry creatures and so forth.
Uh, Richard?
Well, we may be small and furry, but we're more than creatures.
We're not insignificant.
And by the way, some of my best friends are furry creatures.
Yeah.
And one of them is up on the web.
And the good guys will most assuredly win.
I wanted to share some data points with you about the Great Pyramid and the Phoenix.
Okay.
Um, the Great Pyramid, um, actually was, I don't know what you're going on as the, uh, the dating points that you're starting from for reference points having to do with the other pyramids in the area?
But the Great Pyramid itself actually is totally different from the others, and it was built, unbeknownst to most scholars, it was built with the cornerstone being laid on June 21st, 3434 BC, which puts it considerably earlier than most scholars would like to have it.
Now let me ask you there, what is your source reference on this?
Uh, this is based on the Great Pyramid itself, and the mathematics contained in there.
So this is the Pyramid Inch, and the name's equivalent to a year and all that, right?
Well, that's part of it.
Okay.
It also has to do with the fact that the only way that the pyramid could be lined up such as it is, true north, true south, and so forth, is for it to have had, as a reference point, a polar star.
There are only two times in the last 6,000 years when we've had a polar star exactly where it had to be to line up that pyramid.
One was June 21st, 2144 BC, which is right around the commonly accepted time for the construction, beginning of construction of the pyramid.
The other is June 21, 3434 BC, and there's a lot of evidence to support the pyramid being around at that time having to do with Native American cultures.
There's a stone type used in the pyramid, using the capstone, Using, used to build the capstone and the sarcophagus.
Which is only found in one other part of the world.
And that happens to be just a few miles outside of Racine, Wisconsin.
Well, the problem is there is no capstone.
There's a missing several... Well, the capstone actually was found.
It was found buried in a socket.
Uh, next to the Great Pyramid.
It was, it was taken, um... And there's a... There's a... It's, it's actually in the, in the Museum of Cairo.
But it's not...
Okay, now the point of it being older is?
a mock-up of it on display
and you know now the point of it being older is the point of being older is that
entire uh...
system that's been constructed around orion o'siris
isis horace orion and so forth
uh... that's an overlay That's an overlay.
There's a plan that's, uh, so much greater than having to do with, uh, what they've, what they've been talking about the Great Pyramid having to do with.
It doesn't have, in itself, anything to do with Orion.
Those other pyramids and the other structures around it were built considerably after it, as afterthoughts by rather egotistical pharaohs.
But the pyramid itself was built By a man known as Enoch.
And the reason we know that is because of the legends having to do with the Phoenix.
Tied in with the Great Pyramid.
Phoenix is the Greek form of the Egyptian name, Pa-Henak.
And Pa-Henak means father of the house of Enoch.
Now these things all coincide actually in Racine, Wisconsin.
And this has to do with this country.
Now, Phoenix, Arizona is interesting, like you say, because of the name.
But the name has to do with Enoch, who is the builder of the Great Pyramid.
You've absolutely lost me, Richard.
Well, there are several alternative historical and prehistorical constructions for what may have happened at Giza and what it means.
This is one of them.
Yeah.
The point is that each of these separate theories can be tested provided we get more honesty and openness and access to real data.
Well, I have some real data on the origin of the rock that the sarcophagus is made of and the original capstone.
What is the source of your data?
Well, we have samples that were taken by people, and we've taken these samples and done various tests on them.
We've tested them for content, grain structure, and chemical analysis.
Optical emission spectrometry findings.
And what we found is that two of them, the original piece, and I mean the original piece from the sarcophagus, And the peace mind out of a lava flow, from near a lava flow, in outside of Racine, Wisconsin, actually have identical spectral analysis, identical chemical analysis, and identical grain structure, and they're the only two that do.
And there's only two other sources known in the world of that black, chocolate, rhyolite-type granite.
Alright.
Well, here's what I would say, sir.
There's a great significance to this, and I'll boil it right down.
Alright, please.
That is that it's all about the return of a person who spiritually fulfills prophecy for the return of Enoch.
Okay?
And he was born right outside of Racine, Wisconsin.
Right near where the white buffalo was born several years ago.
And he's been teaching a number of us, and We're actually, uh, very few in number, but we are, um, we're working ultimately for the same thing you, Richard Hoagland, are working for.
Alright, well, what I would suggest is that you, um, fax Richard, or contact Richard, and, um, supply him with, uh, the actual data you have.
Now, that did sound like somebody with good, hard, researched data, Richard.
And I'm sure you're willing to take a look.
Absolutely.
My fax number is 201-271-1703.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you?
I'm in Victoria.
All right.
Steven?
Yes.
Quickly, I might as well run through all this.
I think that Richard might be able to find something with... There's apparently one scripture in the Bible.
About when the lion lays down with the lamb.
And if it's a constellation, he might find some answers there.
And with regards to Nassau, apparently when Avro Arrow, the company in Canada, was shut down by Diefenbaker, most of those people were moved to Nassau.
And there might be a trail I'm worth following back from their time frames and everything else.
And I was just wondering if that quite possibly could tie in with the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the time release of the files when they were going to have them finally released.
I think it was supposed to be 2025 or something like that.
They were to be sealed for 50 years, I believe.
Richard?
Well, I mean, the assassination apparently cut off or co-opted a plan that Kennedy and the people around him were really implementing in the Apollo program.
And we will never know, or we might not know for a long time anyway, whether it was picked up by others and carried through.
What is intriguing to me is the consistency of this pattern over decades.
And we're not talking about a trivia consistency, we're talking about Landing and orbits and calculations on planetary placements and celestial phenomena that are so intricate that literally only, you know, maybe a whole mainframe back then could have done it.
And it's even difficult now to corroborate using some of the best state-of-the-art technology and programs that we have at our fingertips today.
This is not a trivial plan.
And my solidity of You know, predicting this stuff is that if it is not trivial, if the reasons behind it are significant, if they are as weighty as I believe, then it cannot be abrogated.
And it must be followed.
And if it's followed, then it will indicate to those of us that are not in on the plan that there is a plan.
Because it has to change what they're telling us is going to happen in a couple of weeks.
What if you're wrong?
Well, scientists can be wrong.
You know, if you're wrong, you go back and you ask yourself, what have I learned from being wrong?
Then you've got to go back and really rethink the entire thing, because at that point, this long brick road of data points that you've built toward making this prediction... Well, remember that the road you're talking about, the yellow brick road here, is a political road.
It's attempting to impute meaning To a pattern.
It can be abrogated if the forces that don't want this to work are overwhelming those that do want it to work.
In other words, if at the last minute the other guys, the suppressors, succeed and they land this thing where nothing interesting is going on, then of course it will go on as planned.
The very fact that there are these noises about Phoenix, the very fact that there is this weirdness out there about fear and loathing and horror in the heartland, or in this case in Phoenix, Arizona, indicates to me that it isn't a lead pipe since that those guys are going to win this time.
That there's too much effort put into the other side, and that maybe we can give them a little help here.
Because the transformation of consciousness, if in fact we get to see what's waiting at Cydonia, is almost unimaginable.
New things will be born that we can't even contemplate tonight if that thing lands where the numbers say it's going to land.
Well, um, it's an amazing, it's an amazing thing, Richard.
That's all I can say.
And if it occurs, there are going to be a lot of people after this program that are going to sit straight up and, um, Probably their chins are going to hit their chests and it'll be a new day for the world because we'll be learning about things that we should have known about long, long ago.
Would that be about right?
That's about right.
All right.
Stay right there.
We'll be right back.
We've got another half hour to go.
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland.
What do you think, folks?
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Here is a simple, but to use Richard's word, elegant question.
Art, please ask Richard, why didn't NASA pick the 20th in the first place to avoid all of this?
Because the contingent that wants to get to Cydonia doesn't want us to know it's getting to Cydonia.
That makes sense.
See, both sides are playing this secret game.
We're not in the loop.
We're not in the conversation, as my late friend Dr. Sagan once said.
And that's our problem.
The way we get in the conversation is to interpret the cover story when it hits.
To understand what it really means, and that's why I'm going out on this very long limb tonight.
Something has to give here, and the way to do it is to simply call it.
Now, I'm betting that the... Let me give you a little story.
When I was a kid in high school, learning physics, I had a brilliant teacher of physics.
And he did things that would make people who weren't into physics really pay attention.
And he had a love of the subject, and it was obvious that he communicated because he loved the subject.
And I remember one day in class, you know, sitting there, all the freshmen in this, you know, room.
Big, old, ancient school.
Very high ceilings.
And he had this cannonball mounted on a long steel piano wire stretching up into the darkness of this auditorium.
Must have been 50, 60 feet up in the air.
And what he did is he walked back to the side wall, taking the cannonball with him.
And he put it right up to his chin.
And his head is back against the wall, right?
Mm-hmm.
And all us guys are sitting there saying, what in the world?
And he lets the cannonball go.
And it swings in a majestic arc, agonizingly slowly, as the wire was rewound, out across the auditorium, over to the other wall, And then back toward our professor standing there.
And he can't go back any further.
He's right back against the wall.
And there's this collective... And it comes right up to within maybe an inch or his chin.
And stops.
And hangs there.
And then swings back out.
And of course we're all going... And he turns to us and he says, Yeah, sure.
Why were you worried?
In other words, I'm confident tonight that I'm going to make an absolute ass of myself on the radio in front of a lot of people because the numbers say we have to be right.
And this is going to be a very interesting test.
It certainly is.
It's going to be an interesting week.
I have consecutively interesting weeks.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with the interesting Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi!
Hello!
How are you this evening?
Well, you're listening.
I am absolutely riveted to my radio.
I have not been able to turn away.
Where are you, dear?
I'm in Phoenix.
Oh, wonderful, wonderful.
And I was getting shivers, and I wondered, Richard, if you thought that the recent sighting here, with the lights in the sky, had anything to do with this?
Absolutely.
Absolutely?
Yep.
What relation?
I have met with Frances Barwood after Art had her on the show.
I was down in the southwest visiting some friends, and we decided after we had gone to visit you, Art, that we would go and see Frances Barwood.
And we spent about a day and a half with her and her very nice husband, Mike.
And had an extraordinarily interesting time and learned a lot about, you know, her politics and her representation and the astonishing opposition she's encountered for simply asking, you know, the question.
Yes.
Like in Oliver, what, me sir?
I mean, what's happened to this woman for simply wanting to know what was flitting over Phoenix?
A mile across with all those lights, photographed by God knows how many people and she's got videos now and eyewitness testimony and all that.
The cover-up that is going on in Phoenix over something that should be so intriguing to officialdom, given the responsibilities that they've been elected to carry out, in itself is telling us something interesting.
The next thing is, it turns out in the last several weeks, George Bush and Dan Quayle have been in Phoenix four or five times.
On various reasons.
And that I find interesting.
Given the politics and background of their involvement with this so-called hidden agenda vis-a-vis NASA, we don't have time to go into it.
What do the lights have to do with any of this?
The lights, I think... Well, first of all, you've got to ask yourself, what were the lights?
Obviously, somebody was behind them.
Yep.
And a lot of people saw it, and the videos I've seen, they're not flares, they're nothing normal.
I agree.
But we agree.
Alright, so that leaves either a top-secret military project, grandstanding over Phoenix, Or a genuine visit from somebody with a bit of technology we don't have.
If it hadn't been, I gotta tell you this, if it hadn't been for the lights, I would not have begun looking at Phoenix as part of this equation.
So it certainly woke me up to begin to ask, what's going on with Phoenix?
And find what we found in terms of the celestial pattern and the tie-in with Cydonia and with the Moon and Pathfinder.
The other thing that it tells me is that somebody wants Phoenix to be highlighted in the news, to be made aware of.
And that, of course, gets to the heart of what is, what's the role Phoenix plays in this.
And it turns out that it plays an extraordinary role going back at least a hundred years.
I've got a history sitting here in front of me.
In 1867, a guy named Jack Swilling from Wickenburg, Arizona actually redid some of the Hohokam irrigation systems and set up what would ultimately Uh, be known as the town of, uh, of Phoenix, although it didn't have a name.
In 1870, a permanent town site was selected at the corner of Jefferson and First Street, where there now is something called Patriot Park.
And there was a seven-person committee set up to select a name.
Mm-hmm.
An unknown arrival, a guy who came from nowhere, named Daryl Dupa, suggested the name Phoenix out of the blue.
For the history of the bird phoenix coming out of the ashes.
And we're doing a lot of reference work on this.
There's apparently one quote that has come down to us from that meeting where he said, from the ashes comes the savior of the world.
Now that's kind of interesting in connection with a seminal consciousness raising event connected potentially to an ancient heritage on another planet.
So, you begin to wonder if Mr. Dupa was perhaps a Mason.
The story gets more interesting.
In 1874, President Ulysses Grant gave, quote, a patent of acceptance to the city of Phoenix.
And in 1881, the city was incorporated as Phoenix.
In other words, the President of the United States, through some machination of executive order, did a special commission.
We don't know what a patent means, but we're going to find out.
But Phoenix goes all the way to Washington in terms of its sighting, its latitude, longitude, and the kind of official significance of its very name in American history by the president duly elected by the people of this country.
Something interesting is going on.
Now, if you look into ancient native traditions, it turns out that Phoenix is on the site of, supposedly, one of the seven cities of gold.
Remember the seven cities of Sibylla?
Yes.
Okay.
Seven, of course, is tetrahedral.
And gold, of course, is tetrahedral.
We don't have time to go into why gold is tetrahedral, but we will on a future show, alright?
There's a reason why gold is valuable and bright and yellow and does not decay, does not corrode.
It's because of its tetrahedral hyperdimensional nature.
That's for a future program.
But here's something really important.
If there are convoys of military guys running around Phoenix, alright, is it possible that they're getting ready To be on the site where some important trigger effect, some technological, some physical, perhaps signal, will be heard or found on that particular day on the 20th, which will indicate to somebody in the know where to dig for something important.
And wouldn't it be nice for all you Phoenicians out there tonight prowling around town and looking for guys with equipment and bags of equipment or trucks or unusual things to see if you can be there when they find it.
I will say this for whatever it's worth and I mentioned it earlier and I'm going to mention it again.
I'm getting messages on the internet which I discounted and which I normally would just trash saying there are large military contingents Headed toward Phoenix.
Ma'am, have you heard this?
Just from you.
Okay.
Just from you.
You know, it's very interesting that Phoenix would be chosen as a site.
Phoenix is very conservative.
And people here are not open to things.
It's a very conservative city.
Yes, it is.
And there would be a great deal of fear if something like that were to come down.
Well, I'm not saying it would come down.
I'm thinking that it might be brought up.
Right.
In other words, if Phoenix is on a sedimentary flood plain, about 1,000 feet or 2,000 feet above something very interesting that's 300,000 years old and buried deeply by sedimentation below the current city, and it is still active, in other words, we're talking a technology here that actually could survive several hundred thousand years.
That's the nature of hyperdimensional physics, Art.
Boy, you know a lot you're not telling me, don't you?
Well, just... I don't want to put everything on the line tonight.
Can I have a little self-respect?
All right.
Well, listen, ma'am, do us a favor.
Sure.
Keep your eyes open in town.
I will, and you are doing wonderful work.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, and take care.
See, if people in Phoenix see a bunch of guys wearing uniforms, carrying equipment... Yeah.
The automatic reaction, because Oklahoma's gonna be, oh my god, it could happen again.
That's the cover.
That keeps people away from the really important thing, which is, maybe it's just the opposite.
And you should ask these guys questions.
And say, what are you looking for?
I see what they say.
All right, well, let's see what kind of reports we get.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hi.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Boy, I'll tell you, I've been listening and I just about jumped out of my seat when I heard all this talk about Phoenix.
You said something about 30 degrees?
30-30.
30-30.
Okay, well, an interesting point I'd like to show you.
I don't know if this is coincidence or part of your scheme you're looking at.
But at 30 degrees, roughly 45 minutes, I guess, is the city of Atlanta, which has in its courtrooms a phoenix rising.
Basically, the symbol of Atlanta is a phoenix.
It says resurgent.
And 1865 underneath.
Now, you're calling from where?
Atlanta, Georgia.
Atlanta, Georgia.
Yeah.
Well, Atlanta, Atlantis, why does NASA have a subtle name?
Yeah, that's what's been going through my mind as well.
You know, by the way, that, uh, uh, Pike, um, uh, Albert Pike, who was the founder of kind of the American version of masonry, lived for a long time in Little Rock, Arkansas.
You knew that, right?
No, I did not.
I'm not aware of that.
No, I wasn't either.
And there's a certain president who lived And worked in Little Rock?
Little Rock, yeah, that's true.
Who's currently president when all this is gonna hit the proverbial fan?
Well... Just, just... Knowing the president you're speaking of, he'll figure a way to turn it into a plus.
Well, it is a plus!
That's my point!
It's gonna take... Look, we used to have a CBS when I was there.
We used to say that NASA was the only agency that could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
You know, you go to the moon and you make it seem boring and trivial and stupid.
And no one ever goes back?
Well, that's a cover, guys.
It's really extraordinary.
And our job, should we choose to accept it, Mr. Phelps, is to make sure they don't do it again this time.
All right.
Could Atlanta be some sort of, maybe not Phoenix, but Atlanta, there's some sort of diversion?
I mean, you were talking about fear.
Phoenix, the last caller said that she didn't think people in Phoenix would You know, that they're kind of walking around.
Take it well.
Yeah.
But in Atlanta, there's already the fear factor from the last three bombs.
But remember, Atlanta is not part of the celestial cartography, and Phoenix is.
And we now can prove that going back to the first Apollo.
Alright, thank you.
So I guess we've got to keep our eyes on Phoenix.
In fact, let me tell you how close I'm going to keep my eyes on.
Alright.
As you know, Art, we are moving.
We were out... Well, I know it, but they don't.
Richard is leaving Manhattan area, and he's going to move... In the next two weeks, we are moving all of Enterprise.
We are going to headquarter it in the Southwest.
Close to Phoenix.
I'm not going to tell everyone exactly where yet.
All right.
But it's going to be close, because that part of the country, I think, for a whole bunch of reasons, having to do with this, the native Hopi traditions, The extraordinary research facilities concentrated in New Mexico, Los Alamos, which is basically controlling the NASA Discovery mission to the Moon leaving this fall.
That part of the country is pivotally important for the next phase of our investigation.
And so, we're going to leave the wilds of Manhattan for the more interesting wilds of the Southwest.
Just in time for good weather, by the way.
I understand it's getting warmer and... It is.
...damper.
Richard, it's kind of unusual this year.
I'm not sure about Phoenix, but we should be way above 100 degrees by mid-June, and it's bizarre.
We're in the 80s, and something's different with our weather here.
We're not getting the violent weather.
We're just getting totally Unusual weather for the desert.
Well, some night we can talk about hyperdimensional weather.
That's part of the predictions of the model.
There are very good reasons in the model for why we're seeing the kind of weirdness that we're seeing.
It definitely is.
I mean, there's no question about it.
We can argue about why, I suppose, the weather is changing.
But we're either in a very unusual cycle, and man hasn't been around long enough, I guess, to document what cycles mean or how often they occur.
I have no way of knowing, but the weather is undergoing an obvious change.
Well, I think that your first statement is very true.
We have really only been around with instruments and observation and recording devices for a tiny fraction of the geological history of this planet.
A cosmic blink.
Yeah, so our database needs to be expanded.
We don't know what normal is because we haven't experienced normal.
All right, let's try one last question.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
My name is Gene.
I'm calling from Las Vegas.
Yes, sir.
Real quick.
Richard, what sticks out most to me while hearing about Phoenix is the Vatican building and observatory in Arizona.
Mount Graham.
Is there any connection in your opinion?
Of course.
It's in their library.
We can get access to it.
Oh, you know, I should have thought of that myself.
I should have thought of that connection while we're off wondering about things that are connecting.
I should have mentioned Mount Graham.
Well, Richard, we've done it again.
And you've really done it this time.
I know, but I haven't done it forever.
We're going to be watching Phoenix.
We're going to be watching the Mars Pathfinder mission over the next several days.
And I guarantee you, Richard, if the mission is lost and then Magically recovered, you're headed for the cover of Time Magazine.
Oh, well.
We say out here at Enterprise, stay tuned.
Or maybe the cover of Rolling Stone, who knows?
Anyway, my friend, it's not goodbye, it's until next time.
Everybody, good night, Richard.
Good night, America, wherever you are.
Not even that has meaning.
Good night, Richard.
That's it, folks.
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
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