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June 17, 1997 - Art Bell

03:14:33

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - NASA Mars Missions - Richard C. Hoagland

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	Outro Music A few of us at the network just want to dedicate this
	little song to you on this special day.
	Happy birthday to you.
	Happy birthday to you.
	Shh!
	Happy birthday.
	Art Bell, happy birthday to you.
	Art, this is Steve Burgess from Affiliate Relations, and for me and all the rest of the staff here, we want to wish
	you a very happy birthday.
	Brian Saylor.
	Holly Marple.
	Arthur.
	Tim Austin.
	Happy birthday to you, big guy.
	John Newman.
	Lisa Lyon.
	Alex Joy.
	Karen Eddings.
	Bob Just.
	Anne Fredenberg.
	Thomas West.
	Donna, customer service.
	Mike Stafford.
	Stephanie Smith.
	Vicki Eastwood.
	Jose Corona.
	Omar Corona.
	Marcelo Corona.
	Miley Reid.
	And here's one you haven't heard, Berlin Beard!
	Kathy Pear.
	Jennifer Bake.
	Jim Oakes.
	You took them, Scott!
	Julian Hudson.
	Summer Thompson.
	Roger Daniels.
	Valerie Knight.
	Marvin Pangburn.
	Jules of Thames Court.
	David Shortridge.
	Alan Masters.
	Delaney Conrad.
	Hey Art, happy birthday to you.
	Just to show you how sophomoric this staff can be.
	This is what they actually wanted me to recite to you.
	A poem.
	Excuse me.
	Roses are red.
	Violets are blue.
	Some folks are young.
	But you're 52.
	Diligently worked on by the staff of your network here.
	Never mind, you and I share that esteemed age, and it's a real good one.
	Arthur, for me, Alan Corbett, President of Chancellor Broadcasting and Talk Radio Network.
	Happy birthday to you, and many, many, many more.
	All the best, buddy.
	Hey Art, this is the regular guy here, and I have been informed that now you have, well, become older than dirt.
	As a matter of fact, the rumor in the desert, Art, I don't know if your wife's pretty alone or what, but the rumor is that you're not as good as you once were, but you're as good once as you ever were.
	Hey, happy birthday!
	This is Dave Dawson, and to the absolute owner of Nighttime Radio, Art Bell.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	Listening to Art Bell is good for your health.
	It's high in fiber and low in fat.
	Hi, I'm Debra Rae from Here's to Your Health, wishing Art Bell the happiest and the healthiest of birthdays.
	Keep up the good work, Art.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Ed Nowicki, host of American Crime Line.
	I want to wish you a happy birthday.
	I would have sang you happy birthday, but if you ever heard me sing, That's present enough that I didn't sing.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	Art, this is old buddy Elvis, and I've listened to your show out there, and I have a few of them life-after-death experiences I'd like to talk to you about.
	Art, happy birthday.
	This is your offstage announcer, Ross Mitchell in Reno, and it seems as though you have more than one birthday for Adam.
	Or maybe it's just that celebrating your birthday involves so many people in so many markets.
	I just hope I look as young as you do when I get to be that age.
	Not to imply that you're old, Art, but if Jurassic Park Lost World reminds you of your childhood, then maybe you should start with the calcium supplements.
	And very possibly, the real reason your program now starts an hour earlier is because you just can't stay up as late as you once did.
	Art, many happy returns.
	Hi, Art!
	Happy 52nd and a hundred more!
	Love ya, Linda.
	Hello, Art.
	It's Brian Jennings, the Supertalk Radio Consultant, Inc.
	guy.
	And just happy birthday.
	Many, many, many great wishes to you because I've known you for a number of years.
	We've put you on over 20 stations that I consult and work with in their programming departments.
	And frankly, if I had 120 stations, I would put you on all of them.
	Uh, you're terrific.
	You've really, uh, lit up the night, so to speak, coast to coast.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	Take care now.
	Hi, you old artichoke.
	From the sunny shores of Far West Australia, this is your older Texan friend and his lady wishing you well for your 52nd birthday.
	We tried to arrange an earthquake for you, but, well, we could only arrange some bad weather.
	Sorry.
	Anyway, from Stan and Holly, happy birthday.
	Live long and prosper.
	It's Michael Horn from Cusco, and I just wanted to wish my good friend Art Bell a very happy birthday, and I hope all his wishes come true.
	Art, it's Brad Steiger.
	Happy birthday.
	And just remember, buddy, you're not getting older, you're getting better.
	Hi, Art Bell.
	This is Sherry Hansen Steiger wishing you a very, very blessed and happy birthday.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	This is David Masters, and it's amazing that you've lived as long as you have, staying up all night the way you do, but I guess that's why Coast to Coast AM is the hottest overnight radio show in America.
	Hi, Trey.
	Your listeners may not know you by this name, but this is Dad, and here it is again.
	Another birthday.
	And may you have had, and may you have, whichever the case may be, the happiest and happiest of all, and from Ricky, too.
	Hey, Art.
	It's Bryce Abel.
	Hey, listen, since Majestic 12 forced NBC to cancel Dark Skies, I had to go underground.
	I mean, I'm sure you know what I mean.
	After all, you're out there hiding in the desert, right?
	Anyway, I'm calling from a payphone right now, so I can't stay on long.
	Their tracers are so good these days, you got less than 30 seconds, and then they're on you like a cheap black suit chase.
	So here's the message.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	I mean, enjoy it while you can, man, because when they come after you, you've got no time, okay, for blowing out candles.
	Party on, Art.
	I gotta go.
	Art, it's Andy Ludlum from KABC in Los Angeles.
	Happy birthday from all of us here in L.A.
	You already got your present last month.
	That's when you got your best ratings ever and continued with the number one overnight show in Los Angeles.
	Happy birthday and continued success, Art.
	Hey, Art Bell.
	This is Nancy Ventac calling you from Planet Radio WGST in Atlanta, Georgia.
	And I have to say, welcome to our planet.
	We dig having your wild weirdness on on overnights.
	And the response has been great.
	Happy, happy birthday!
	From the great city by the bay, home of the Golden Gate Bridge, Fisherman's Wharf, and more unusual people than reside on most planets in this universe, This is Jack Swanson, Program Director at KSFO San Francisco.
	All of us at KSFO and all of us in Northern California wish you, Art, a happy birthday and many, many more.
	Art, this is Sherry Sawyer at one of your new affiliates, WREC Radio in Memphis, and we're wishing you a very, very happy birthday.
	This is Tony Minor, Program Director of Hot Talks 570 KVI in Seattle.
	You are nighttime radio, period, in the Seattle area and in the whole Puget Sound region.
	On behalf of the whole KVI staff, let me wish you a very happy birthday and a great broadcast year.
	This is Randall Blomquist at WBT in Charlotte, North Carolina.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	You're the king of overnight talk in the southeast.
	Art, Rich Carey here, 570 Winds, WHNZ in Tampa Bay, Florida.
	My friend, I don't know if you live on the edge, but your show is right on.
	Thanks for great radio and happy birthday.
	And we dig your gig!
	Happy birthday, Art, from Keep, your webmeister.
	May you have a million hits a day and no visits from the government.
	Uh, hold on a minute.
	This is Merle Haggard, uh, the only one I know of, uh, that sings country music and listens to the Art Bell Show, and, uh, I wanna say, uh, happy birthday to you.
	I understand you're gonna be, uh, 52.
	That's a wonderful age.
	I wish I could be 52 again.
	Uh, but anyway, from everybody in my camp, we wanna say happy birthday to Art Bell.
	Hey there, Art Bell, this is your friend Michael Harrison, editor of Talkers Magazine, the trade publication and talk radio, and also occasional weekend broadcaster on the Talk Radio Countdown Show heard across the nation, taking this opportunity to wish you a very happy birthday, and certainly also to congratulate you on, according to our research, being The number four most listened to talk show host in America.
	And of course, you are getting kind of old.
	And if you're able to hang in there, maybe soon you'll be number three, two, and one.
	But you're definitely a testimony to how people can continue to live productive lives into their senior years.
	Nevertheless, I'm only kidding.
	Best wishes to your continued success and happy birthday, Art.
	This is Bob Crane from C. Crane Company.
	Art, happy 52nd birthday.
	This is a significant event indeed, and a few significant thoughts come to mind, which is a significant event in itself sometimes.
	Area 51 is 52 miles away, and there are 52 weeks until your next birthday.
	Hi Art, it's Whitley.
	I want to wish you a happy 413th birthday, or whatever it is, maybe the 412th.
	Many happy returns of the day, and I will wish you a happy birthday on behalf of Victor, too.
	at Seacrane Company and thanks.
	Art, this is your birthday, and I do feel, as one man to another, that you have narrated great praise and great gratitude from people like me, guests you have had on your show, how much pleasure you gave them, besides giving them the opportunity to speak to a very wide audience, which you have created by your skill, As a broadcaster.
	And so, congratulations.
	May you live and thrive for decades and decades to come.
	Amen.
	Peter, there's one more thing from me, Little Tony Howell.
	That was great.
	uh...
	uh...
	that was great uh... thank you all how do you know what is that there's something like that
	Aww.
	Hi.
	That's my wife.
	Say it again.
	Happy birthday, baby.
	And I've got a birthday pie in front of me, and I'm going to blow it out.
	I've got one candle.
	One candle.
	That's very appropriate.
	I don't want a birthday.
	Very funny.
	All right.
	Here it is.
	I've got it.
	Thank you.
	All right, well, so much for my birthday.
	I'm trying not to think about it, you know.
	That was really, though, I thought, a particularly wonderful tape.
	Thank you.
	Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart.
	Well, tonight, let's see how much trouble we can get in, and I suspect a substantial amount, because Richard Hoagland is here.
	Richard, like myself, has trouble as he'll name if it wasn't Charles.
	Quick note, for Stan, who could not send me any earthquakes, Stan, you recorded that too early.
	We are showing a 6.6 a short time ago in the Aleutian Islands and a 5.6 in Argentina.
	Also, this note, Hi Art, did you hear about the weather in the Pacific Northwest?
	More tornadoes, more thunderstorms.
	Torrential rain.
	The jet stream is absolutely weird.
	This time of year, it is supposed to be up by the border of the U.S.
	and Canada, but it's all the way down in the bottom of the Southern Plains.
	That's what they said on the Weather Channel today.
	From Laura.
	Laura, you are correct.
	The weather is strange, and I've been meaning to comment for days on this.
	I live in the desert.
	It is now mid-June, my birthday, 17th.
	And the desert should be cooking.
	We should be well above 100 degrees.
	And I must tell you, we still have snow on the mountain above me, and we've been getting, if we're lucky, into the 80s every day.
	There is something very, very bizarre going on with the weather.
	I think, personally, it is the quickening.
	And that's the last thing I'll cover, and then we're off to Manhattan and Richard C. Hoagland.
	I have authored a book called The Quickening.
	And we kind of paused last night in the advertising because it's going like crazy.
	So if you wish an autographed copy of The Quickening, Richard, yes, I'm sending you one.
	If the rest of you would like an autographed copy of The Quickening, the window is about to close on that opportunity.
	So you need to get it ordered right away.
	The number is 1-800-864-7999.
	1-800-864-7991.
	That's 1-800-864-7991.
	And you can call 24 hours a day, and you should continue to call until you can get through.
	This is an important book.
	All right, now to Manhattan.
	Who is Richard C. for Charles Hoagland?
	He is a troublemaker.
	He was a science advisor to Walter Cronkite, daddy.
	Everybody thought of Walter Cronkite as daddy.
	He was a one-time advisor to NASA, and now they're poster boy.
	They have his photograph as you walk into NASA down there in Houston.
	It hangs right there in an honored spot.
	And he is the winner of the Engstrom Science Award.
	Here he is, Richard C. for Charles Hoagland.
	Happy birthday to you.
	Happy birthday to you.
	You know, I promised I would never do that after Cape Canaveral, but I had to.
	You know, 52 is very important.
	I mean, how many people can celebrate tonight with me their tetrahedral birthday?
	Is it tetrahedral?
	Of course.
	That's why there are 52 weeks in a year, and that's why there are 52 So Bob Crane really was on to something.
	Absolutely.
	And the selected ten is $52 tonight.
	It's almost too much.
	Furthermore, in specific honor of the day that Art Bell was born, we moved, gently, Hale-Bopp out of Orion tonight.
	Really?
	It left Orion.
	Which is just about time, because we're going to talk a lot about Orion, among other things.
	Can Hillbop still be seen?
	Oh, sure.
	From the southern hemisphere.
	With the naked eye.
	They're having a more distant view than we had when it came in, because it came in over the northern hemisphere of the Earth, over the northern ecliptic pole of the solar system, and it's leaving by the southern route, making kind of a U-turn at 90 degrees to our orbit.
	So the southern hemisphere is being regaled now with some of the views, not as close, obviously.
	After May 5th, it crossed the ecliptic heading south, and it's receding.
	I don't know exactly how far out it is tonight, but with a pair of binoculars or a decent telescope, it's really still quite spectacular.
	And it's leaving Orion in your honor.
	Well, wonderful.
	Anyway, there is so much going on, Richard.
	You and I have been talking about things that I have been hinting about.
	On the radio, and I'm not sure how much you can or you're willing to talk about and where we should even begin.
	Now, one thing I have said on the radio is the STS-48 video is interesting, fascinating.
	It appears to show objects that are doing things that they can't do.
	At least, not objects that we've built, that we know about.
	But you came to visit me, and when you did, you brought with you the STS-80 video.
	And the only thing I've told my audience is that the STS-80 video makes 48 look like kid stuff.
	And that's a big T. So I don't know how much you're willing to tell them about what's in 80, but... Well, we're going to not do 80 tonight because we're still working on the analysis.
	The problem with 80 is What I can say is that we went back to the original footage.
	We tracked back after a gentleman in California, whose first name is John and his last name completely escaped me, picked this up on a Sacramento cable station that was broadcasting NASA Select last December 1.
	And it turned out that the information I had originally Which was that he had picked it up as a rebroadcast of the day's activities was erroneous.
	We have now done enough work that we know, corroborating between Grenadine time, Chenelapse time, and Pacific Standard Time, that John actually saw this live, as it was being downlinked from the shuttle.
	And everybody should know, unlike STS-48, where there was a camera pointed outside a shuttle window, The video from STS-80 is taken with cameras that were outside the shuttle.
	Well, let me make one correction.
	The STS-40 video was also with a camera in the payload bay.
	Oh, it was?
	It was not taken through a window.
	Oh, okay.
	These are all remote control cameras, and there are, let me see, there's two, four, minimum of five cameras that are color cameras in the bay.
	They're positioned at both ends of the rectangle, if you can imagine the payload bay of the shuttle.
	It's about the size of an 18-wheeler trailer.
	When you pass an 18-wheeler on the highway, or it passes you, as more often than not happens these days, that's the volume of the payload bay of the shuttle.
	It's about 15 feet wide and about 65 feet long.
	All right.
	Hold that description.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	I knew this was going to be quick.
	And we'll come back and get into whatever trouble you deem we should get into.
	We're going to try and talk about Egypt.
	I know that one will get us in trouble.
	Richard C. Hoagland is my guest tonight, and there's a lot coming up.
	i'm art bell and from the high desert this is the american independent cdc
	radio network and
	Art Bell is taking calls on the wild card line.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	Richard C. Hoakland is here.
	Trouble's on the way.
	First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	Richard C. Oakland is here. Troubles on the way.
	We're going to talk a little more about...
	We're going to drag a couple of little things about STS-80 out of Richard.
	Because I saw some things that blew my mind.
	I mean, absolute mind-blowers.
	And, uh, we've got to at least... I don't know, tease a little bit of... say something about it.
	I can't stand... I hate secrets.
	And lately I've had to keep so many.
	It's driving me absolutely crazy.
	This.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	Back to Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard, before we leave STS-80, can't we tell them a little bit about it?
	I mean, just a little bit.
	I mean, the video was so amazing, Richard, I just can't contain myself.
	The one shot, for example, from the ground, what do you say?
	Well, this is what actually triggered it.
	When we were last talking about this a few moments ago, this gentleman in California, in Sacramento, watching television, watching NASA Select, now we know he was watching a live downlink from the shuttle by way of TDRS.
	The link goes from the spacecraft, the shuttle, Up to the Tracking and Data Relay Satellite, which is 22,300 miles up.
	The signal then goes down to White Sands, to an extremely secure, literally NSA control center.
	NASA is part of DOD, as we've established in the law, and all of the signals from the shuttle and all of the Hubble data that goes through TDRS and anything else is, we now know, encrypted.
	So it goes down through this White Sands control center, it goes back up to a commercial satellite, Goes back down to the Goddard Space Flight Center, where I used to work outside Washington, goes back up to a communications satellite, and back down to Houston, where they see it.
	Then, at some point in that switching, it gets back to the NASA Select satellite, which is Galaxy 1, I think, and people get to see it all over the world.
	Right.
	In that elaborate labyrinth of electronic relays, Anybody could have flipped a switch.
	Anybody could have said, whoops, and blanked it out.
	But they didn't.
	They did not.
	And somehow it got broadcast.
	Now, what's interesting, and I forget who did this number system for us, but if you count the interval plus the mission between STS-48 and STS-80, it's 33 missions.
	Okay.
	and STS-80, it's 33 missions.
	Okay.
	And 33, as you know, in this Masonic trail we've been following,
	somehow winding its way through NASA is important.
	We also have an experimental, you know, new shuttle that they've got on the drawing boards called the X-33, but we won't get into that tonight, of course not.
	So this signal was seen by our friend in California, and what he noticed, Art, was the thing that you saw, Which is over a city.
	You're on the night side of the Earth.
	You're seeing brilliant, moonlit clouds.
	We now know that it was a first quarter moon.
	And you're coming up on the Terminator.
	You're a few minutes before dawn, which, of course, hits earlier when you're at altitude.
	The shuttle is about 220 miles up, moving at 17,500 miles an hour toward the northeast
	because it's at a 28.4 degree inclination to the equator.
	And we now know that they have swung down across the Pacific, up across South America,
	and we're approaching the west coast of South America over the Amazon basin, looking back.
	And as you know, the camera operator was zooming the field of view.
	Well, I guess we ought to preface this by saying, already, significant things had begun to occur.
	We began to see things Very much like the ones seen in STS-48.
	Things doing things they should not be doing.
	Well, no, no, no.
	This was just before that.
	All right?
	Let me set the scene here.
	This is before that all erupts, because what triggered our friend in California to hit his VCR button and to record the rest of the seven minutes we've got was the event that you saw that almost no one else has seen, which is in this tight zoom shot of an unnamed city somewhere in South America.
	But the thing is, the camera operator, this sets the scene.
	You've really got to set it, Richard.
	I hate to be telling you that, of all people who will set scenes for an hour sometimes.
	But, my God, folks, there is no question about it.
	Whoever was operating the camera from the ground was absolutely interested in this city, because he zoomed the camera in, And stayed focused right on this city.
	We don't know what city, or do we?
	Yes, we do.
	Oh, we do?
	Yeah, of course.
	Well, we didn't last time we talked.
	No.
	That's what science is.
	It moves on.
	All right, so we now know what city it is.
	Well, let me tell you what it is.
	It's Santiago, Chile.
	Santiago?
	Oh, all right.
	And a little bright.
	And since you have a copy, you can now go look at it and match it with your maps.
	And there's a good friend of ours in New Mexico who helped us figure that out a couple weeks ago.
	Um, anyway, so Valparaiso is down to the bottom right, and he's zooming in.
	Now, you have to understand, when you're 220 miles above the Earth, the Earth is a brilliantly lit, by moonlight on this shot, carpet, which stretches from horizon to horizon.
	It's 180 degrees, or almost 175 degrees, because you're so close to it, and it's so big, that the field of view literally blanks out half the sky beneath you.
	Or to the side of you, depending upon your frame of reference.
	Right.
	This city occupied a teeny, teeny, tiny, tiny fraction of that whole night side moonlit pass.
	Until he zoomed in.
	When he zoomed in, but it still is a tiny portion.
	The reason I'm going to emphasize the tiny portion, Art, and you know what's coming, is because he zooms in, he frames it right, and then, right Over this city, which is Santiago, which is 33.30 degrees south, a number which will become very clear later in the morning as to its significance, something zooms up, apparently up, from that city, wig-wagging, almost like a tadpole swimming, a brilliantly illuminated, leaving a vaporous
	Phosphorescent plasma-like trail.
	No doubt about it.
	One major thing streaking so fast that the phosphor persistence problem of the camera, the low-light level camera, could not, in fact, encompass the shape of it.
	It left it as a kind of a moving, rapidly moving blur, which when you step through it frame by frame by frame, you can see that it's sashing and wig-wagging from side to side.
	It is astounding.
	And it's overly bright.
	It reverses.
	On this camera, when things get too bright, they go dark.
	So the center of it is dark because of the brightness of the image.
	And then it's out of frame.
	And the camera operator, who is, by the way, not an astronaut in the shuttle, this is all being commanded from Houston, although there is some interesting new data that indicates that maybe the camera operator arc was actually in Cheyenne Mountain.
	It turns out now that the shuttle missions have a direct streaming video feed to the National Reconnaissance Office and Cheyenne Mountain.
	Really?
	And there is video of operators at consoles in Cheyenne Mountain controlling shuttle cameras on other shuttle flights.
	So we're not quite sure who was running the camera that night.
	That seems to be one of the dark secrets that we have to uncover.
	One of the things that is not a mystery, though, is that whoever was operating the camera knew exactly what they wanted to focus on.
	Oh yeah, because the field of view was so tiny by the time he zoomed in and the city almost filled the field of view.
	And then this thing appears, and if you just do the numbers, just randomly assume that a meteor goes through the field of view With that tight zoom shot.
	The odds are probably 10,000 to 50,000 to 1,000, just in terms of the total area of the night side of the Earth and that tiny field of view on which this object was captured.
	But that only set up the rest of the video that we're in the process of analyzing.
	Oh, I know.
	There's a lot there.
	And not only this, but that was the most amazing thing I have ever seen.
	Because A, the camera operator knew it was going to occur.
	There's no question about it.
	You can't watch that and not know that's true.
	Number two, in my opinion, and I guess you can be fooled, but this thing came from the ground, not from space.
	That I think I concur, and I'll tell you why.
	If you go through it frame by frame, you'll see that the first light, the first frame, was down on Earth.
	Well, it's very tiny.
	And then as the next frame it gets bigger and bigger and there's a perspective arc.
	It's like you're looking down.
	Right.
	Tangent to a long path.
	That indicates that the flight angle was up from somewhere over Santiago into space at a tangent angle to the atmosphere.
	Santiago was about 1,500 miles from the camera when this all took place.
	So that shows you how far away and what the zoom angle was kind of roughly.
	what i had to be again the improbability of that being a random meteor
	where the operators zoomed in and set the shot and then it appears
	no no i'm not buying it so um...
	have you been able to conclude yet richard what the speed of that object would have been
	Is there any reference, any way to determine what the speed would have been?
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, we can do that.
	We just need to have time to sit down and do the numbers.
	And because the primary focus of tonight's program is going to be a couple of other breakthroughs that have hit us between the eyes, we will do that when we do the integrated STS-80.
	We're in the process of putting all these data bits together.
	Let me tell you one other thing that is going to blow everybody's mind.
	When the main event begins, this is only a precursor.
	This is like prologue.
	A few minutes later, in real time, you're still on the right side of the Earth.
	The spacecraft, the shuttle at 220 miles altitude, over the Amazon jungle, enters sunlight.
	Dawn breaks for the shuttle.
	Right.
	And all hell breaks loose down below.
	Oh boy, does it.
	So one thing, at the Terminator, there are all kinds of interesting thunderstorms.
	There's an intense concentration of electrical activity In the ITCZ, the Intertropical Convergence Zone, which is over that part of the Amazon jungle at that time of year.
	And then there are these things that begin to enter, some of them slowly, some of them zipping by at warp 9, that appear so non-Newtonian, so non-ballistic, so non-natural, that everyone to whom this video now has been shown are At NASA.
	At Houston.
	And we've had our people now quietly taking this from office to office to kind of get a feeling, a qualitative feeling.
	Right.
	Are we at the luncher?
	Is this really as extraordinary as we think it is?
	What are they saying?
	Universally, good God, why didn't we see this?
	Um, I, my jaw hit my chest.
	Um, I could not believe my eyes.
	I, it is one of the most exciting things I have ever seen in my life.
	And is there any way, Richard, they're going to try and explain this away as ice crystals?
	Well, what's interesting is that the vocal NASA critics, like Jim Oberg, who have tried to poo-poo the STS-48 video, despite, you know, my analysis, and Mark Carlotto's, and Jack Casher's, many others, has been quite silent about STS-80.
	You know, Jim's no dummy.
	He looks at this and he knows that he can't explain.
	For one thing, ice crystals... I've never seen an ice crystal in zero gravity that could slow down and stop and then hang in a parking orbit off the port bow for several minutes and then decide to warp out at a leisurely velocity opposite to the original flight path direction, then reverse course and go back toward the horizon.
	...toward the center of the Earth, and then decide, finally, just as you're approaching dawn down on Earth, that, well, it really didn't want to do that, and went back up toward the airglow.
	In other words, the non-Newtonian behavior, the non-ballistic nature, the non-orbital nature of what we're seeing, completely puts the kibosh to this idea that we're looking at debris, or ice crystals, or anything else.
	Even if we did not have, which we do, Companion video from 45 minutes earlier when the shuttle just east of New Zealand sailed into night.
	In other words, the Terminator.
	Exactly.
	And there was no debris, there were no ice crystals, no baloney going on.
	At the exact duplicate lighting, sunset as opposed to sunrise, nothing is going on.
	And we have the same light levels duplicated The same scene on the camera, the same field of view, everything.
	In fact, the same cameras.
	Same thing, exactly the same camera.
	And the only thing that's changed is in 45 minutes later, all hell breaks loose at dawn, over the Amazon jungle, and, can I have a drumroll now, please?
	We figured out the latitude over which all this takes place.
	19.5.
	Of course.
	What else?
	underarm nineteen point five of
	prepared for the world richard
	there is no way that somebody viewing this tape we've got to draw a word
	pictures for people uh... there's no way anybody viewing this tape cannot come
	away with an understanding
	the camera personal wherever whoever was in control was obviously absolutely himself
	fascinated with uh... or even directed to
	capture these objects on videotape And the city was without question.
	I mean, the guy went down and stayed on that city until the event occurred.
	So we've got something significant.
	When might the public see this?
	How far away?
	Well, you know, the old Orson Welles thing for Paul Mazon, you know, we make no wine before it's time.
	You can't really rush this analysis because you understand that the critics, the folks that are trying to discredit this, and to basically, you know, tell us we're all crazy.
	They will do their damnedest to try to make it go away by basically arm-waving and saying, oh, it's just debris and ice crystals.
	What I have assembled is a first-class blue-ribbon team of ex-NASA, ex-aerospace engineers, where I work with major companies.
	I'm just going to list companies.
	These are not necessarily the companies that they work for.
	You know, Boeing, and McDonnell Douglas, and Lockheed, and Martin Marriott, and whatever.
	We were putting together a broad field of people to look at this, to write an analysis, to actually write a report, and to do some computer simulations, so that we can do side-by-side split-screen, and show people what Newtonian test particles look like, and what these things look like.
	For instance, the one big object in the main event, the one that enters camera bottom right, And appears in the shadow of the shuttle?
	Yes.
	And then pops into sunlight?
	Yes.
	The one that then decides to slow down and kind of stop and park?
	Right.
	Off the port bow for a while, and then begins to drift backward with the clouds opposite its original motion, and then drifts down back toward its original direction?
	That object, if you actually trace it in terms of position relative to the center of the Earth, Is going from a high orbit, meaning at the shuttle or above, to a lower orbit, meaning below the shuttle in terms of its reference to the center of the Earth.
	Now there's something in Celestial Mechanics 101, which is that high orbits take longer to go around something than low orbits.
	That's why the Moon takes a month to go around the Earth, and the shuttle takes 90 minutes.
	Sure.
	The Moon is a quarter of a million miles away, and the shuttle is 200 miles up.
	Right.
	The one I just described.
	In that position, should leave the field of view arc camera left.
	It should accelerate, it should move faster because it's going in a lower orbit, and it should drift out of sight to the bottom left of your screen.
	Instead, it stops dead, hovers for a while, and then moves opposite toward the right side of the screen at a diagonal parallel to the airglow of the Earth.
	And that, of course, in terms of any orbital mechanics, is simply out of the question.
	Sure.
	Unless it's a powered object.
	Unless it's got a mind of its own.
	Unless it's a vehicle, not using rockets, but a very interesting form of electro-gravitic propulsion.
	I agree with you.
	I agree with you.
	That is what is in this video now.
	Let me interrupt.
	The fact that it's at 19.5, the fact that it's at dawn at 19.5, all of which are significant items in the physical model,
	the hyperdimensional physics model, then all the things that we're going
	to get to when we get to the detail analysis tells me that if, as I said, the SDS-48 was the most
	amazing video I'd ever seen, this one is by far 10,000 times more
	amazing.
	And more important, it is provably amazing.
	All right, so I know that it's hard to give any estimate, but looking at weeks or months of research
	before you're ready to give this to the people who will try to pick it apart, about how long
	do you think it might be?
	Just a guess.
	Well, as you know, there's a couple of items in the life of enterprise and in my personal life that are going to intervene here in the next two or three weeks.
	Yes.
	And we'll get to those later in the morning.
	You're going to really tell them what's going on?
	Well, we have to.
	It's part of the developing saga for the summer.
	All right.
	This is going to be a passenger seatbelt summer, and we're going to make some major predictions and lay them on the table after the turn of the hour.
	All right.
	The hour is about to turn, as does the worm.
	So stay right there.
	My guest, of course, is Richard C. Hoagland.
	And what is ahead will blow your mind.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this The ABC.
	The ABC.
	you All right, um... Art, I would like to hear you on satellite radio, C-band.
	Which satellite, and where are you?
	I have a 12-foot satellite dish on the Big Island.
	No problem, Bob.
	Uh, we are on satellite F1, or C1, depending on how you want to look at it.
	Uh, transponder number...
	5 with 5.8 wide band audio.
	We're also on C5, but I'm not sure where exactly.
	I never can remember.
	WWTN, our affiliate in Nashville, carries us and puts us up there.
	So you'll find us in a couple of places, actually several on C-band.
	Now, back to Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard?
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	I'm really glad that you at least Build a couple of the STS-80 beans for everybody, because I couldn't hold it very much longer.
	It was killing me.
	It's terrible to give a radio person a tape and then say, you can't say anything.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Well, it is worthwhile.
	It's worth waiting for.
	We have to do this right.
	The science has got to be there.
	The numbers have to be there.
	And of course, it has to be the credibility.
	of the proper people doing the analysis and the people that I've been able to choose, you know, lucky enough to have as part of our extended enterprise family are people who literally did everything on orbits, on rendezvous, on docking for the space agency for 30, 40 years.
	And if those people aren't believed, then nobody will be believed.
	So that's the caliber of people that we've involved and we have to wait until their work is done.
	I would like your comment on something.
	CNN and the USA Today did a poll, a significant one the other day, a big one, in which it was revealed that 80 percent, that's 8 out of 10 of the American people, believe the U.S.
	government is hiding information about contact with alien beings.
	That's 8 out of 10 people.
	Now, does that tell you, Richard, that Eight out of ten people believe there are alien beings, or eight out of ten people have ceased believing anything the government says?
	I think the latter.
	As you know, tonight is a very important anniversary.
	This is the 25th anniversary, quarter of a century from the night when the Watergate Hotel office complex was broken into, and the slide into the great primeval sea of public Belief and the credibility of their government began an incredibly awful, tragic downward slide.
	Cynicism began.
	Cynicism.
	And the cynicism to the point where even when we're being told the truth, people won't believe it.
	Right.
	And this is the way you destroy a democracy.
	This is the way you destroy a republic where people have got to have a contract with their duly elected officials, and when those officials say something, For the public safety, for the public well-being, for the public good, they have to be believed.
	Now, the other side of the contract is the public officials have to be honest.
	Right.
	They have to not have hidden agendas.
	They have to actually mean what they say, follow through, and tell the truth, and treat their citizens as adults.
	So, on both sides of that equation, since Watergate 25 years ago tonight, that equation has broken down, and we are living With the sad and bitter consequences in all different directions, from normal, mundane government activities to much more important activities, such as we're going to be discussing this evening.
	Because, unfortunately, I'm going to be able to specifically lay out tonight some examples to come of where one faction of our current government, namely NASA, is one more time not going to tell us the truth.
	And what I'm going to do, Art, is very high risk for this investigation.
	I've decided, I've thought about this long and hard, and I've decided we're going to put it on the line tonight.
	We're going to level with the American people who have been following this investigation, who have been following this saga, this unfolding mystery story in which we're all involved.
	And because we have such specific data and such compelling evidence, And we're going to be able to lay it out and put it on the web.
	I thought I would be able to get it up tonight, but that will not happen.
	It will be tomorrow before the first of several installments of this new evidence and data will be available for people on the Internet to peruse.
	OK.
	But we will be able to describe it tonight.
	There's nothing secret.
	It's just the logistics are following a little behind where I thought we would be.
	It really is sad that it is an anniversary where public confidence began to erode because This is a time when we need maximum confidence in leadership that really will lead.
	Not only has it eroded, but I think it is quickening.
	I think that the erosion is quickening.
	And you're right, it will destroy a representative democracy.
	Unless there is something to replace it.
	And the thing I want to talk about tonight is hope that the American people are bigger than the government.
	American people really are sovereign.
	That's what this experiment was designed to be about.
	And by and large, American people have pretty level heads, and they know what to do in a crisis.
	The crisis here is a crisis of confidence.
	We are being presented now with some awesome, stunning new information, which is confirming some of our most far-out models.
	And I will lay out what I mean by that.
	It is important that we not lose our heads.
	That we, even if leadership has failed, As it demonstrably has on this issue, the extraterrestrial question.
	You know, when you have shuttle video, which is downlinked and broadcast live, and all the folks in Houston can do when you try to get a flight plan for the mission is say, oh, we burned them all, we didn't have any use for them.
	Even the crew, even the astronauts didn't keep their flight plans.
	I mean, you know, you've got a big time crisis of credibility.
	Well, I also have a memo suggesting that NASA has ordered that all email Older than, I forget, two months or two years, I can't remember, be destroyed.
	They are in the process of destroying old email.
	Why?
	It's a way to keep things quietly hidden.
	And fortunately, those days are numbered.
	Let me tell you what we're going to do.
	We are going to predict tonight the circumstances and almost the day and the hour when the current Mars mission, the first one to arrive at Mars, Mars Pathfinder, is going to disappear.
	Like its predecessor, Mars Observer.
	Same old gang is up to the same old tricks.
	Now the difference this time is they're going to bring it back.
	And we're going to be able to predict roughly when that's going to happen.
	And then we're going to lay out an extraordinary set of scenarios with specific documentation that people can follow so they know we're not channeling this.
	This is coming from, you know, the hard way, elbow grease science data.
	And we're going to invite a lot of participation in helping us through this crisis of confidence.
	And the reason all this is going on is because there are some major connections and connect-the-dots Going to happen this summer.
	This is a non-trivial summer.
	You're saying the Mars probe is going to disappear?
	Yep.
	And you're going to predict when it will disappear?
	Yep.
	And then it will reappear?
	Yep.
	And you're going to predict that?
	And NASA will look initially like enormous heroes, you know, valiant engineers laboring with the taxpayers' money, succeeding this time where they couldn't succeed with Mars Observers.
	Are you going to tell us how you're able to make this prediction?
	You know, I'm a processed person.
	I lay out as much process.
	Sometimes on your show, I have completely bored people with process.
	I know.
	But what I'm going to do tonight is to kind of lay out an outline of what the rest of the evening or the rest of the morning is going to look like.
	Sure.
	So for those people who think that maybe they can get away by listening for a couple of hours and then going to sleep, not tonight.
	No, because what we're also going to do is to relate this disappearance and reappearance with the curious events occurring In the city of Phoenix in Arizona.
	Really?
	Getting back last March with the strange apparition of something over the city, which to this point has been denied by all officialdom except for one lone elected official, Francis Barwood.
	Who I had on the program.
	Who's attempting under very severe circumstances and against great odds To find out the truth on behalf of her constituents.
	All she did was ask for an investigation.
	And everything in the kitchen sink is being thrown at this woman.
	I know.
	Who simply wants to know on behalf of the people who put her there on the city council.
	It turns out that that strange phenomenon in March and the events that have happened since are connected.
	And I will lay out how they can be extraordinarily connected To what NASA is going to do in the next few days with Mars Pathfinder.
	So it's coming quickly?
	It's coming very quickly.
	This is a plug for a certain book.
	It's definitely a quickening art, all right?
	Now the other thing that we're going to do is to delve into the history of the city of Phoenix itself.
	All right.
	Did anybody ever wonder why we have a city called Phoenix?
	Does anybody remember the derivation of the term Now, Richard, here's another place where I've got to stop you and I've got to ask you, and I'll do this in the most gentle way that I can think to do it.
	I'm going to Egypt October 1st.
	I have been looking forward to going to Egypt.
	I'm going to Giza.
	I'm going to see the pyramids.
	Maybe.
	Now, you and I have talked about some things, and we know what's going on in Egypt, and I'm not sure the time is proper for us to tell everybody what's going on in Egypt, but it is so serious that I might have to stay on the ship.
	Well, let me tell you what, exactly.
	It might not be a bad idea, yes.
	Now, we're slightly overstating this, alright?
	Not in my opinion.
	Well, I'm not going with you.
	Egypt is a very civilized country.
	There are some remarkable people in Egypt who really care about history, about communication, about legacies.
	Yes.
	And then there is, like in NASA, there appears to be another group who have very consciously and very dedicatedly, you know, confused a lot of people and put out a lot of smoke and mirrors to keep Truth from being found out regarding the legacy of what those pyramids represent and their connection not only to our own ancient antiquity and who we are, far older than most history books will give credence to, but also an intimate connection to NASA, which we have discussed on previous programs, and in future this connection
	to the Mars Pathfinder mission to Mars itself.
	And as I just said, an also very lineal and understandable connection to this unique American city in the southwest tonight known as Phoenix.
	And what we're going to do in the next few weeks when certain things are politically solved, we're in the process of furious behind the scenes negotiations even as we speak, We're going to be able to, I think, reveal some of the turgid mysteries and background story of the so-called Shore Expedition.
	This expedition financed by the millionaire industrialist here in New York City.
	Mr. Shore.
	That put a number of people and cameras and documentarians and geologists and all that on the ground in Egypt.
	Under the aegis of the Antiquities Council, and we're going to be able to talk about some of the things that folks have not wanted us to talk about for a long time, and I have some news on this front to make myself, which is, you know that Dr. Shore had been working in some cooperation with ARE, the Association for Research and Enlightenment, the so-called Casey Foundation, and Graham Hancock and Robert And let us be clear, alright?
	regarding undue influence of ARE with the shore expedition to Egypt and with
	the Egyptian Antiquities Council and decisions being made on the plateau and
	all that. And let us be clear, all right, this civilized nation which has as the
	head of the Antiquities Department a Mr. Zahi Hawass.
	Actually, no, no, no.
	No, no, no.
	Zahi is not head of the Antiquities Council.
	He would like to be this fall.
	There's an election and he is running.
	All right.
	Running Giza.
	He is head of the Giza Plateau.
	Running Giza.
	All right.
	That's right.
	In response to what was said by Baval and Hemco... The Bureau Dean is the head of the Antiquities Council.
	Zahi suggested that should they return to that area, He would throw them in a pit.
	Well, no, wait a minute.
	Cut their heads off, throw them in a pit, and urinate on the remains.
	Well, obviously he doesn't speak for Egypt.
	I mean, this is one person's opinion, and again, we don't have... I don't have ground truth that that, in fact, occurred.
	That is a rumor that Robert was told by someone on a taxi ride to the airport.
	So, we should not inflame passions.
	There is enough hard data.
	The specific thing, the point I want to make is, because of the of the strangeness of this subject the fact that
	things just don't add up excuses keep being made for why the logical
	conclusion of scientific investigation is never consummated there's an interesting history of ganton brink and the door
	remember the door the door is up behind the uh at the 180 feet up the
	the uh sloping shaft This is a metallic door.
	No, no, no.
	It's a stone door with two metallic copper handles.
	One of which has fallen off.
	Intensely corroded.
	Right.
	That was seen by a little robot designed by a German here named Rudolf Gentenbrink.
	Robot camera.
	Crawled up the shaft on little tractor treads.
	Right.
	And spotted with this closed circuit camera this door eight inch wide.
	door in an eight-inch wide shaft, extending up at about a 35-40 degree angle from the Queen's Chamber, hundreds of feet up through the pyramid, about 180 feet.
	Yes.
	And there was a little crack on the bottom right-hand side of the door, well, years ago.
	This is 91, I believe.
	Obviously, the next thing would have been to let Mr. Gantenbrink design an optical fiber probe to put under the crack, through the door and see what was behind it.
	You bet.
	Instead, Zahi Hawass and People around him said no.
	There have been other expeditions, French, Japanese, and German over the years where they found chambers, you know, on the north side of the Queen's Chamber.
	They found radioactive sand in some of those chambers.
	They found other... Really?
	I have never heard that.
	Radioactive sand?
	Radioactive sand, yes.
	All these things are found by foreign experts and technologists invited by the Antiquities Council to do this under license to the Egyptian government, and then just on the eve of unveiling what is causing these mysteries, why these chambers are there, what's behind the door, these guys, to a man, are kicked out.
	And the lid comes down, and you never get to find out what's going on.
	So in other words, to speak clearly, what appears to be going on is Egypt or Zahi will invite people with money in to do very expensive research and just at the very moment when they are prepared to culminate that research with a finding or a dig, they're booted out.
	They're used.
	That appears to be the pattern.
	There appears to be a breakthrough where some of the most interesting secrets which have been uncovered as part of these latest expeditions may, in fact, be revealed.
	And, in fact, it's even stronger.
	There's a strong indication, Art, that they may be revealed on your show, and they may be revealed through your good offices.
	All right?
	That, I cannot firmly say tonight.
	Negotiations are intensely underway in the background.
	Attorneys are being consulted.
	Things are going on.
	This is non-trivial.
	Very non-trivial.
	If we reveal what's going on, Richard, I think yourself and myself, we're going to be persona non grata in Egypt.
	And it may be worse than that.
	Would you agree with that?
	That's the downside.
	the upside is that the art bell audience as politically astute and it has demonstrated it now is
	and in fact strike a major blow for openness and democracy and maybe
	that's what we're here for a week and we'll be right back
	all right about the back to richard c hoagland And again, what's going on in Giza?
	We know what's going on in Giza.
	And the reason that you cannot be told fully at this moment what's going on in Giza is because there are attorneys, lawsuits, that sort of thing, that are pending as a result of this.
	So until the legal entanglements get sufficiently untangled that we feel we can tell you what's going on, We can't.
	And I know that is, for a lot of you, very frustrating.
	But this is so serious, so very serious, that if and when we reveal it, I believe there will be some danger to those who have revealed it.
	But as I said, life is short, and what the hell, the truth is the truth.
	And if you don't follow it, then what good are you?
	It's important, Art, to keep focus on the big picture here.
	It's like, if someone is running a number on the Western world, as they've been running a number on Americans vis-a-vis the real space program, and you find a connection, which is this Orion symbolism from NASA, which was the overall symbol of Apollo itself, and then you find NASA people, who in fact then go on to become very esteemed uh... members of the uh... cabinet actually at the at the secretary level of the president of egypt and you find this confluence of pattern and mythology moving in the same direction meaning a kind of an ancient future reaching back to the past through going out to the far distant future and exploring literally another world i.e.
	mars you gotta say to yourself why would they all be doing this unless it was not of overwhelming and overriding importance Now, fortunately, because of the way science works, you know, which is you don't have to have an authority figure to tell you the truth, you can figure it out for yourself, if you know how to apply the process, we have been able to make remarkable headway in several different directions in parallel.
	And what we're going to be able to do, not tonight, but in the next few weeks, week or two maybe, at that close, is bring them together.
	In fact, the timing is probably going to be just about the time that Pathfinder disappears.
	We're going to be able to come on with some of the key players on the Egypt story to show a part of why it's disappeared and why it will come back.
	That will be a program, if we're able to do it, that will rock the foundations of the world.
	Well, if this prediction that I'm going to lay out tonight comes to pass, an awful lot of people are going to ask, how the heck did we know?
	I hope they do that.
	I hope they examine carefully what we're going to put on the web in terms of the evidence,
	in terms of the overwhelming compelling evidence that this, almost like an act of God, has to happen.
	This is the end of side one.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	From the Kingdom of Nine, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
	Even before we tell the story, Richard, let me ask you this.
	The fact that we're about to make it public, this prediction, will the fact of making it public possibly change what you are predicting will occur?
	That's an excellent question, and something we've given a lot of thought to.
	And under normal circumstances, I would say it might.
	If we were dealing with something at the trivial level of national security or, you know, the cloak and dagger games between East and West and all that.
	Yes.
	But in fact, we're dealing with people.
	And let me pick my words carefully here.
	We're dealing with people deep inside the space agency, deep inside Yes.
	the egyptian you know uh... antiquities group yes
	literally believe they are operating on a higher calling
	that this pattern the their actions are or mandated by no less than god herself
	or himself i should tell my audience by the way that this is not just richard hoagland telling me these
	things on I have talked to some of these individuals myself.
	So I know what he is saying to be true.
	And I can't back it further than that, but I have had conversations that verify what you're saying right now, or alluding to, is true.
	So if that's true, if they really believe, and I'm putting the most optimistic spin on this, and I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it's different than what we in the Western secular community, certainly in the government project dealing with taxpayers' money and science would imagine would be going on.
	But if this small group have been driving the system covertly, deftly, manipulating here, moving things there, Getting calculations done over there that had nothing to do with science, but in fact are fulfilling this grand, celestial, cosmological vision that they've held.
	Then, you know, Dick Coleman sitting on the radio telling them what's going to happen makes not one tinker's damp.
	They can't change it because God would be pissed.
	And they really believe it.
	Now, this is kind of equivalent to some of the actions of You know, people like McVeigh and others who feel they have such a high calling that nothing stands in their way.
	That level of fanaticism we have seen the world over, and we know that it is not deterred by trivial actions.
	It is in service to something that the progenitors think is much bigger.
	I am counting on that.
	I am counting on that the 30-year pattern we have uncovered That we have now exquisitely detailed and will lay out for everyone to examine and critique is of such an overwhelming nature and has been created for such magnificent grand objectives in their own mind that nothing as trivial as predicting part of it is going to make a difference.
	If that's true, and I'm kind of putting 15 years of this investigation on the line that it is true, Then it also is a means to us to figure out what the hell is really going on and how we can change what they think is going to happen to serve all of humankind, not just an elect elite few.
	So, what you're saying is, you are putting it all on the line, and you're saying this is so big that no radio show, no prediction by Richard Hoagland will change the course of events.
	Right?
	I don't think so.
	And we're going to find out.
	And I'm that confident in the data.
	You know, again, we're not doing this with, you know, magicians in the back room.
	Although I do, I must say that we've had some interesting help in putting this analysis together, what's going to happen.
	We've had in the last couple, three weeks, some former NSA officials come to us, provide us with invaluable counsel.
	And specific information and analyses that is in parallel to our own analyses.
	I've also reached out and I've called in some favors for some other analysts that use techniques that are very different than those that we use.
	Mainly, they're not using numbers, they're not using the metonymic methods of science and prediction that we try to bring to this evidence.
	And what you're going to hear tonight is the distillation of the best thinking of this whole group.
	When I talk about the Enterprise mission, I really want to emphasize, Art, it's not just me sitting here on the radio.
	I am a vocal person.
	I can put words one after the other.
	I have enough coffee in me.
	We've noticed.
	But what I really am representing is a family of concern and interest and expertise which is growing by the day, by the hour, as more and more people figure out that we're on to something.
	And they want to lend their expertise to helping find out the truth.
	And as with any system, it is greater than the sum of the parts.
	Everyone who participated in this I want to thank, because without all of the discussion and all of the counsel and all of the work that everyone put in, I wouldn't be able to sit here comfortably tonight, you know, with my friend Art, and lay out for several million people what is going to happen And have a reasonable chance of not looking like a damn fool.
	If you're right, Richard, if you're right, isn't it dangerous for you?
	No.
	Not at all.
	No, no, no.
	It's not even in the equation.
	It doesn't even cross my mind.
	We have so transcended that trivial nonsense.
	This is for big stakes.
	This is for the heart and soul of humankind.
	I know.
	This is for a grand vision on both sides, be it the light or the dark.
	And one person is not important enough to even be viewed as a problem.
	That's the saving grace here.
	The people we're dealing with are so incredibly insulated from the democratic ideal, from the idea that individual people, the common man, can affect change and the future and their own destiny, that they are beyond thinking that we matter.
	And that is the exquisite insurance All right.
	Give us a schedule of Pathfinder.
	we don't think this will matter and count at all and it's up to the americans listening to my voice show
	them that that's not quite
	alright give us a schedule of pathfinder in other words uh...
	but i recall when it was launched when is it due to arrive let me know and what is it
	supposed to do when it gets Okay, let me start with the launch, and then I'm going to do this back and forth tonight so we lay the proper foundation.
	Again, as with any good legal case, you've got to have the right foundation to understand the magnitude of the data that we are presenting.
	The spacecraft was launched on December 4th.
	Its original launch date was supposed to be December 2nd.
	There was a severe weather front that swept down through Florida that night, you may remember.
	I remember.
	I was supposed to be there.
	NASA decided otherwise.
	They pulled my credentials.
	I recall.
	So I could not be there.
	Despite our best efforts.
	Yep.
	Well, in those days, I mean, ARCBEL was... Who were they to reckon with ARCBEL?
	And now, of course, that's changed, right?
	When you got that letter from the guys at headquarters, it kind of tickled me, because the way they were dismissing the ARCBEL audience even a few months ago, That was not the tone of that letter a few weeks ago.
	That is true.
	And it's all due to the smartness of the American people and their ability to let these people know that they care.
	Anyway, on December 4th, the spacecraft was launched.
	If it had been launched on the 3rd, which was the night bracketed by the 2nd and the 4th, Mars, if you'd been standing at the Cape like I intended to do, Able to speak on live camera like I was wanting to do, I would have been able to point out across the launch pad to Mars rising over the darkened Atlantic Ocean with a crescent moon hanging up in the sky just above it.
	And I would have been able to announce that as that spacecraft lifted off, Mars was at 19.5 degrees above the Cape Canaveral horizon in the constellation of Leo.
	Now, why is any of that important?
	Well, 19.5, of course, is the key number that comes out of this tetrahedral hyperdimensional decoding that we have been conducting on the ruins for so many years now.
	The LEO part is equally interesting because, as you may or may not know, we have now figured out that back years ago, almost 20 years ago, when Viking landed on Mars and the Viking orbiters were sweeping over And over and over the Martian terrain.
	Right.
	On July 25th, at about three-something in the afternoon, when the Viking camera on Orbiter A looked down and snapped the picture of Cydonia that we all see on our website and on your website and many other websites now around the world, that picture was taken when the face on Mars was looking at Leo above the horizon.
	The counterpart of the so-called Martian Sphinx.
	If you harken back to your Egyptian mythology, the Sphinx on Earth, Ahorum Akati, is Horus of the Horizon.
	And its counterpart in the sky is the constellation of Leo the Lion.
	And this is from the work of Hancock and Bavall and many, many, many others.
	Yes.
	So that symbology is very important because The Sphinx on Earth is a compilation of two figures.
	The hominid, the man, and the feline, the lion.
	It turns out that the face on Mars at Cydonia is a compilation of two figures.
	The left half is hominid, man-like, and the right half is lion-esque, feline.
	So, you have this symbology of two worlds.
	You have the connection in the geometry, the latitudes of Cydonia, the face, and the latitudes of the Sphinx.
	On Earth, at Giza, are related through this very elegant little equation.
	The tangent of one is the cosine of the other.
	So you have all these interconnections.
	Well, it turned out that the night that Pathfinder left this planet, within a few fractions of a degree, because of the slippage of that one night, Mars was at 19.5 in Leo, the personification of Sedonia with Pathfinder headed for Mars in the pre-dawn darkness of Cape Canaveral.
	The other thing you need to know to complete this picture is that Leo is the embodiment of Phoenix.
	Phoenix, Arizona.
	Because the rebirth, the sun on the horizon is the symbolic Phoenix.
	The new day being born from the ashes of the old.
	So these arcane symbolisms now string through this story, and we'll, you know, talk about them and bring them up as they are appropriate from time to time.
	The spacecraft then left on a journey of seven months.
	All right?
	Right.
	Normal journeys to Mars take almost a year.
	This was an ultra, ultra, ultra fast mission.
	In fact, it's so fast that about two-thirds of the way out, it passed in the night, in the dark, a few million miles away, The previous spacecraft, which had been launched in November, where I actually did get to witness it, the Mars Surveyor, the replacement for Mars Observer.
	How did it do that?
	Because it was going faster, and it's following a shorter arc.
	The Pathfinder spacecraft weighs less, you know, less mass than the Surveyor spacecraft.
	The Surveyor spacecraft weighs about 2,000 pounds, and I think Pathfinder is down around 600 or 800, something like that.
	So, literally, with the same amount of rocket fuel, you can get it going faster, and you can kind of cut the cord.
	It's a shorter arc to get to Mars on what they call, I think, a Type 2 trajectory.
	Anyway, they passed each other in the night out there, and then Pathfinder launched second, will arrive first.
	And the arrival date, as we have been told over and over and over again, It's supposed to be July 4th, 1997.
	Right.
	Bill Clinton told us this.
	Bob Dole told us this.
	Right.
	You know, the news media's telling us this.
	NASA's telling us this.
	The NASA website at the Ames Research Center, the Pathfinder website, that's telling us this.
	In fact, the website is very revealing because a lot of the data that we're going to lay out tonight, in terms of the disappearance of Pathfinder, is information gleaned directly and indirectly from NASA's own website.
	The neat thing now is that back in the days when I was covering space with Cronkite and all that, you would go to these NASA centers and you would say, pretty please, pretty please, can I have some data, please, please, please?
	And they would look at you kind of scruffily and say, that's not for public release.
	Now, because of the web, and because most of the system is honest, I mean, most of the engineers, most of these men and women really believe they're serving the best and the brightest and the most honored traditions of the United States of America.
	And so with this incredible tool, the World Wide Web, they could not wait to put all this wonderful information out electronically all over the world.
	So the guys that have a hidden agenda, that are manipulating the system and trying to pull off different things than most of NASA even knows about, they're having a more difficult time because now we can read the tea leaves, as it were, in this case the numbers, in this case the Doppler plots and the mid-course maneuvers and all that.
	And we can discern a pattern that even the guys inside the system could not discern in years before because they wouldn't have access to the paperwork.
	So the web is doing what it's supposed to do.
	It's democratizing the process, Art.
	Sure.
	Let's hear it for the World Wide Web.
	I make a lot of use of it.
	I love the web.
	Well, it's really this growing, interlinked, myriad, multiple consciousness of all mankind.
	It's Bucky Fuller's ultimate Uh, personification, when he called the computer the great equalizer of the 80s.
	And his metaphor was with the 1880s, when the cult peacemaker was the great equalizer?
	Yes.
	Now the personal computer allows us guys to be equal to them guys.
	Because we can use it to figure them out.
	So we've done that.
	So in seven months, this spacecraft, Pathfinder, leaving on December 4th, It's supposed to arrive at Mars.
	Now, 7 itself is kind of interesting.
	It's tetrahedral.
	Now, what do I mean by that?
	If you take a tetrahedron... All right, we're not going to have time for this.
	We're approaching the top of the hour.
	So, we've got a couple of things to do, and when we come back, we will talk in detail about your prediction and why you're saying this will happen.
	So, Richard, stay right where you are.
	We will return.
	All right?
	Okay.
	We'll be back.
	There's a lot to hear, and it's coming up next.
	You're listening to the CBC Radio Network.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	Pretty woman walking down the street.
	Pretty woman the kind I like to meet.
	Pretty woman I don't believe you.
	You're not the truth.
	No one could look as good as you.
	Mercy.
	Pretty woman won't you pardon me?
	Pretty woman.
	Hey, Art, a few of us at the network just want to dedicate this little song to you on this special day.
	Happy birthday to you!
	Happy birthday to you!
	Shh!
	Happy birthday, Art Bell!
	Happy birthday to you!
	Art, this is Steve Burgess from Affiliate Relations, and for me and all the rest of the staff here, we want to wish you a very happy birthday.
	Brian Saylor.
	Holly Marple.
	Arthur.
	Tim Austin.
	Happy birthday to you, big guy.
	John Newman.
	Lisa Lyon.
	Alex Joy.
	Karen Eddings.
	Bob Just.
	Ann Fredberg.
	Thomas West.
	Donna, customer service.
	Mike Stafford.
	Stephanie Smith.
	Vicki Eastwood.
	Jose Corona.
	Omar Corona.
	Marcelo Corona.
	Miley Reid.
	And here's one you haven't heard.
	Verlon Beard.
	Kathy Pear.
	Jennifer Bake.
	Jim Oakes.
	Utah Sen's God.
	Julian Hudson.
	Summer Thompson.
	Roger Daniels.
	Valerie Knight.
	Marvin Pangburn.
	Joseph James Gordon.
	David Shortridge.
	Alan Masters.
	Delaney Conrad.
	Hey Art, happy birthday to you.
	Just to show you how sophomoric this staff can be.
	This is what they actually wanted me to recite to you.
	A poem.
	Excuse me.
	Roses are red, violets are blue.
	Some folks are young, but you're 52.
	Diligently worked on by the staff of your network here.
	Never mind, you and I share that esteemed age, and it's a real good one.
	Arthur, for me, Alan Corbett, President of Chancellor Broadcasting and Talk Radio Network.
	Happy birthday to you, and many, many, many more.
	All the best, buddy.
	Hey Art, this is the regular guy here, and I have been informed that now you have, well, become older than dirt.
	As a matter of fact, the rumor in the desert, Art, I don't know if your wife's spreading it the wrong way or what, but the rumor is that you're not as good as you once were, but you're as good once as you ever were.
	Hey, happy birthday!
	This is Dave Dawson, and to the absolute owner of nighttime radio, Art Dell.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	Listening to Art Bell is good for your health.
	It's high in fiber and low in fat.
	Hi, I'm Deborah Ray from Here's to Your Health, wishing Art Bell the happiest and the healthiest of birthdays.
	Keep up the good work, Art.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Ed Nowicki, host of American Crime Line.
	I want to wish you a happy birthday.
	I would have sang you happy birthday, but if you ever heard me sing, That's present enough that I didn't sing.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	Art, this is your old buddy Elvis, and I've listened to your show quite a lot there, and I have a few of them life-after-death experiences I'd like to talk to you about.
	Art, happy birthday.
	This is your offstage announcer Ross Mitchell in Reno, and it seems as though you have more than one birthday for Adam.
	Or maybe it's just that celebrating your birthday involves so many people in so many markets.
	I just hope I look as young as you do when I get to be that age.
	Not to imply that you're old, Art, but if watching Jurassic Park Lost World reminds you of your childhood, then maybe you should start with the calcium supplements.
	And very possibly the real reason your program now starts an hour earlier is because you just can't stay up as late as you once did.
	Art, many happy returns.
	Hi, Art!
	Happy 52nd and a hundred more!
	Love ya, Linda.
	Hello Art, it's Brian Jennings, the Supertalk Radio Consultant Inc.
	guy, and just happy birthday.
	Many, many, many great wishes to you, because I've known you for a number of years.
	We've put you on over 20 stations that I consult and work with in their programming departments, and frankly, if I had 120 stations, I would put you on all of them.
	You're terrific.
	You've really lit up the night, so to speak, coast to coast.
	Happy birthday.
	Take care now.
	Hi, you old artichoke from the sunny shores of far west Australia.
	This is your older Texan friend and his lady wishing you well for your 52nd birthday.
	We tried to arrange an earthquake for you, but, well, we could only arrange some bad weather.
	Sorry.
	Anyway, from Stan and Holly, happy birthday.
	Live long and prosper.
	Michael Horn from Cusco, and I just wanted to wish my good friend Art Bell a very happy birthday, and I hope all his wishes come true.
	Art, it's Brad Steiger.
	Happy birthday.
	And just remember, buddy, you're not getting older, you're getting better.
	Hi, Art Bell.
	This is Sherry Hansen Steiger wishing you a very, very blessed and happy birthday.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	This is David Masters, and it's amazing that you've lived as long as you have, staying up all night the way you do, but I guess that's why Coast to Coast AM is the hottest overnight radio show in America.
	Hi, Trey.
	Your listeners may not know you by this name, but this is Dad, and here it is again.
	Another birthday.
	And may you have had, and may you have, whichever the case may be, the happiest and the happiest of all, and from Ricky, too.
	Hey, Art.
	It's Bryce Abel.
	Hey, listen, since Majestic 12 forced NBC to cancel Dark Skies, it's had to go underground.
	I mean, I'm sure you know what I mean.
	After all, you're out there hiding in the desert, right?
	Anyway, I'm calling from a payphone right now, so I can't stay on long.
	Their tracers are so good these days, you got less than 30 seconds, and then they're on you like a cheap black suit and shades.
	So here's the message.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	I mean, enjoy it while you can, man, because when they come after you, you've got no time for cake or blowing out candles.
	Party on, Art.
	I gotta go.
	Art, it's Andy Ludlam from KABC in Los Angeles.
	Happy birthday from all of us here in LA.
	You already got your present last month.
	That's when you got your best ratings ever and continued with the number one overnight show in Los Angeles.
	Happy birthday and continued success, Art.
	Hey, Art Bell.
	This is Nancy Vintak calling you from Planet Radio WGST in Atlanta, Georgia.
	And I have to say, welcome to our planet.
	We dig having your wild weirdness on, on overnight.
	And the response has been great.
	Happy, happy birthday.
	From the great city by the bay, home of the Golden Gate Bridge, Fisherman's Wharf, and more unusual people than reside on most planets in this universe, This is Jack Swanson, Program Director at KSFO San Francisco.
	All of us at KSFO and all of us in Northern California wish you, Art, a happy birthday and many, many more.
	Art, this is Sherry Sawyer at one of your new affiliates, WREC Radio in Memphis, and we're wishing you a very, very happy birthday.
	This is Tony Minor, Program Director of Hot Talks 570 KVI in Seattle.
	Art, you are Nighttime radio, period, in the Seattle area and in the whole Puget Sound region.
	On behalf of the whole KVI staff, let me wish you a very happy birthday and a great broadcast year.
	This is Randall Blomquist at WBT in Charlotte, North Carolina.
	Happy birthday, Art.
	You're the king of overnight talk in the southeast.
	Art, Rich Carey here, 570 Winds, WHNZ in Tampa Bay, Florida.
	My friend, I don't know if you live on the edge, but your show is right on.
	Thanks for great radio and happy birthday.
	And we dig your gig.
	Happy birthday, Art, from Keith, your webmeister.
	May you have a million hits a day and no visits from the government.
	Uh, hold on a minute.
	This is Merle Haggard, uh, the only one I know of, uh, that sings country music and listens to the Art Bell Show, and, uh, I want to say, uh, happy birthday to you.
	I understand you're gonna be, uh, 52.
	That's a wonderful age.
	I wish I could be 52 again.
	Uh, but anyway, from everybody in my camp, we want to say happy birthday to Art Bell.
	Hey there, Art Bell, this is your friend Michael Harrison, editor of Talkers Magazine, the Trey Publication and Talk Radio, and also occasional weekend broadcaster on the Talk Radio Countdown Show heard across the nation, taking this opportunity to wish you a very happy birthday, and certainly also to congratulate you on, according to our research, being The number four most listened to talk show host in America.
	And of course, you are getting kind of old.
	And if you're able to hang in there, maybe soon you'll be number three, two, and one.
	But you're definitely a testimony to how people can continue to live productive lives into their senior years.
	Nevertheless, I'm only kidding.
	Best wishes to you, continued success, and happy birthday, Art.
	This is Bob Crane from C. Crane Company.
	Art, happy 52nd birthday.
	This is a significant event indeed, and a few significant thoughts come to mind, which is a significant event in itself sometimes.
	Area 51 is 52 miles away, and there are 52 weeks until your next birthday.
	And select attendants are on sale tonight for $52.
	Seriously, have a happy birthday from all of us here at Seacrane Company and thanks.
	Hi Art, it's Whitley.
	I want to wish you a happy 413th birthday or whatever it is, maybe the 412th.
	Many happy returns of the day and I will wish you a happy birthday on behalf of Victor too, but this is not and never has been Victor.
	Art, this is Father Malachi Martin sending you birthday greetings.
	Art, This is your birthday, and I do feel, as one man to another, that you have merited great praise and great gratitude from people like me, guests you have had on your show.
	How much pleasure you gave them, besides giving them the opportunity to speak to a very wide audience, which you have created by your skill as a broadcaster.
	And so, congratulations, may you live and thrive We had to do that one more time.
	That was such a production.
	Thank you all.
	Hey, wait a minute. There's one more thing from me, little Tony Howell.
	We had to do that one more time. That was such a production.
	Thank you all.
	People don't understand until moments like this how many people are behind my voice.
	Peace.
	In other words, how many people get the job done?
	Get it from here to there?
	Do the sales?
	Do the traffic?
	Do the affiliate relations?
	Do all the rest of it?
	And of course, 360 plus radio stations out there that carry the program.
	And we only had a small sampling of some of the representatives from those.
	So thank you all.
	And I guess I am old as dirt.
	Old as dirt.
	Listen, we've got Richard C. Hoagland here, and we are about to get into some very, very serious information.
	In the first hour, we discussed STS-80, and I didn't think we were going to get to do that, but by gosh, Richard came across and has told us some of the incredible details of the STS-80 videotape.
	Now, we are about to enter An area that is very sensitive indeed.
	We discussed Egypt and how sensitive that is, and the information that we are going to be releasing soon.
	And we're beginning to talk about something that is going to blow your mind.
	Richard is going to predict that Mars Pathfinder will be lost.
	He is going to predict the date it will be lost, and then the date it will be again found, and why.
	That's what's coming up.
	Stay right where you are.
	All right.
	Mars Pathfinder was launched December 4th.
	It is due to arrive in the vicinity of Mars July 4th of this year.
	July 4th.
	Independence Day.
	Interesting day, huh?
	Richard C. Hoagland is predicting Mars Pathfinder will mysteriously, or not so, disappear.
	And then reappear.
	He's got his neck out a million miles.
	He has not yet given us the dates when this will occur.
	Everybody is always saying of prophets and other people I have on the show, damn it, give us something in the short term you think is going to happen.
	You know, pinning people down.
	Richard C. Hoagland is not a prophet.
	He is a scientist.
	And so he's basing this prediction Not on some glean by Chen or some voice that came to him in the night, but by good, hard science.
	Richard, when is Mars Pathfinder going to disappear?
	Within the next two or three days.
	Really?
	That's why I wanted to do this tonight.
	I understand.
	Two or three days, my, my.
	The clock starts running on the 19th, which is two nights from now.
	Right.
	And the reason it starts running is the 19th is the last announced upload for the onboard computers for the next mid-course correction that the spacecraft requires.
	There's a five-day interval between the time they upload the data to the time they execute the program onboard the spacecraft.
	And that execution date is, if you go to the NASA Ames website for Pathfinder, August, June 24th.
	And if you back time it, that means the 19th of June, a couple nights from now, is the last data that they will accumulate before they make their final course correction uplink.
	Now, this is very complicated to do on radio without the pictures, so please hang with us, alright?
	The reason that we firmly believe that this thing has to disappear Is because what we have found in our own analyses, going now back through NASA's entire database to before the first landings on the moon, is that the pathfinder pattern, the stellar cartography, if you will, which is the positions of key objects in the sky over the landing site on Mars,
	It does not conform, on the fourth, to the pattern that we have observed in every other NASA mission, bar just a couple, going back these 30 years.
	We have found, and we've laid out on our website, which is www.enterprisemission.com, or you can reach it through www.artbell.com, we have found that there has been this astonishing and secret adherence to this so-called Egyptian Orion Osiris Sirius pattern.
	Right.
	And because it was launched late, there's going to have to be a built-in delay.
	Am I correct?
	No.
	No.
	When it was launched late, they could make it up to what they call a mid-course.
	And so that was not the reason it would be delayed.
	In fact, they have about 93 Kilograms, which is what?
	Almost 200 pounds of fuel on board, which is an extraordinary amount of fuel for this little thing, given that they're not going to be using it to slow down.
	Pathfinder, unlike any previous mission we have sent anywhere in the solar system, except for the Galileo probe into Jupiter, is not going to slow down when it gets to Mars.
	It's not going to go into orbit.
	It's not going to fire retro rockets.
	It's going to literally slam at over 15,000 miles an hour into the Martian atmosphere and will use a heat shield and the breaking effect of friction with that atmosphere to basically slow down.
	And from the time it enters the atmosphere, which is called entry interface, which is about 100,000 feet over the Martian surface, to touchdown.
	Bouncing on those little rubber bags, those air-filled or nitrogen-filled baggies?
	Yes.
	That it surrounds a spacecraft?
	It will literally come from 100,000 feet down to the surface in four minutes.
	Wow!
	Oh yeah.
	I didn't know any of this.
	That's absolutely amazing.
	So they're going to have this thing slam in.
	Much of the way... Like a rifle bullet.
	That's amazing!
	It's got a big... It's got a heat shield.
	And the heat shield will take out a major heat pulse and slow it down.
	It then has parachutes, a ringsail parachute.
	It fires those with squibs and pops those parachutes at, I think it's 30, 40,000 feet, something like that.
	Fascinating.
	Hold tight, Richard.
	We used up most of this half hour with my birthday.
	That's over now.
	Your birthday keeps coming up.
	My birthday is over.
	Yeah, I know.
	By the way, you have a present from Enterprise en route.
	right now there are a lot of the right back back down to richard c hogan
	Richard, let's get to it.
	You're saying Mars Pathfinder is going to disappear.
	It will disappear two or three days or so from now and then will magically be found by NASA all of a sudden again.
	Let's get to it.
	Why does it have to disappear?
	Okay.
	The disappear part is actually not a primary prediction.
	It's secondary.
	The problem is there's no other way I can I can allow for the divergence between what they plan to do and what they currently say they are doing.
	Right.
	So the only way to cover the disparity is it has to go away.
	And then it has to come back magically or through their enormous efforts.
	And in that coming back, technical gobbledygook will be put out to give them a plausible cover, a plausible reason to do what they intended to do all along, but haven't told us.
	So, as part of this process, it's got to go away for a while.
	And it has to go away not only from us, but from also the honest folks at JPL, who would say, what the hell is going on here, if they saw what was going to happen on their live screens, you know, at the NASA Mission Control.
	Why, Richard?
	Why does it have to go away?
	Okay, we've got to do this carefully, so people don't lose us here.
	All right.
	We have found this incredible, robust pattern.
	That links Osiris, Orion, Sirius, Egypt, Leo, the central mythos of the Egyptian cosmology.
	Going back to the beginning of the space program, we found it in Apollo.
	We actually now traced it all the way back through the first Mercury mission.
	Alan Shepard was launched from Cape Canaveral on the morning of May 5th, according to the same pattern.
	When I was told, when I saw that they were landing Pathfinder on Mars on July 4th, the first thing I did was to, you know, boot up my favorite computer program for stellar cartography, which is Redshift.
	Right.
	And I ran the sim for the landing site.
	Now, the most suspicious part of the announcement was that they're landing at 19.5 degrees.
	You knew that?
	Yes.
	On Mars?
	I recall that, yes.
	They launched when Mars was at 19.5.
	Right.
	Or as close to it as they could get, given the problem they had the night before.
	If they'd launched when they wanted to, it would have been exactly at 19.5.
	Right.
	That was really kind of weird.
	The spacecraft itself is a tetrahedral spacecraft.
	It's the first one we've ever put into space.
	It literally looks like a tetrahedron.
	You know, four sides, four corners, six degree angles, Inside of which is the electronics, you know, the cameras and the other gadgets, and attached to one side of the tetrahedral panels that open up when it lands, is this little 22-pound rover with two TV cameras, color, and some other gadgets on it, right?
	Right.
	When the thing goes from 100,000 feet up down to the surface, down to the desert in that four minutes, and after the parachutes are popped, and after the retrorockets briefly fire, And it then free-falls the last, let me look at my graph here, it free-falls from, oh, what is it, 30 meters up, which is what, 90 feet, 100 feet?
	Right.
	It bounces on these bags, these airbags that are surrounding it, and bounces and bounces and bounces, and they're claiming that it will take probably Five or six minutes to stop bouncing.
	All right.
	It's not retro rocket-like biking.
	This thing is literally surrounded by very heavy Dacron baggies filled with nitrogen that are explosively filled after it separates from the parachute.
	It'd be fun to see, actually.
	What?
	I said it'd be kind of fun to see, actually.
	Oh, it'd be incredible, and there are simulations on the NASA website.
	You can actually play the AVI files and see what they've done.
	They've actually dropped this thing in the hangars, and they've done some desert drop tests, and it really is rather impressive that we're on Mars to see it.
	Yes, indeed.
	But it's the ideal way to land something if you need to get into a place that is dangerous to get into.
	Right.
	It's the only way, in fact.
	What's really bizarre is that it's the only time that NASA is ever going to do this.
	Now, this is really peculiar.
	Think about this.
	You spend $150 million to develop a probe, which does what no probe has ever done before.
	It goes straight in like a rifle bullet.
	When you get there, you slow down using brute force of the atmosphere.
	You literally land safely, not by retrorockets, gently lowering yourself down.
	You've encased yourself in baggies and you bounce to a halt.
	Okay.
	Tetrahedral spacecraft.
	Yes.
	Now when you put a tetrahedron in a sphere, remember the touch points are 19.5 degrees.
	Yes.
	So we're landing a tetrahedron at the one place on Mars where it makes incredible sense because it's at the touch point of a tetrahedron inside Mars.
	We launched it when Mars is in the celestial sphere at that tetrahedral touch point.
	The overwhelming pattern here is tetrahedron, tetrahedron, tetrahedron.
	Yes.
	The trajectory takes seven months to get there.
	Yes.
	There's seven symmetry spins of a tetrahedron.
	You can only rotate a tetrahedron seven symmetrical ways.
	Not six, not eight, seven.
	Seven.
	That's where seven, by the way, in the Bible keeps coming up over and over and over again.
	It prefers to the seven symmetry spins of the tetrahedron.
	That goes back to Stan Tennant's material from the other night.
	Yes.
	You've got to have him back on, because he's got tons more stuff to tell you.
	Oh, I will.
	He was wonderful.
	All of this is saying to me, what's wrong with this picture?
	Because we're landing on July 4th, and there's nothing going on in the sky.
	You've gone to this incredible length to do all this deep symbolism that none of the engineers know about, because obviously they're not plugged in.
	This is being mandated by other people, right above their pay grade.
	And they don't ask questions, they just do what they're told.
	So, I'm looking at the sky and I'm flashing on the computer that the pattern for Viking was very different.
	Viking was our first landing back in 76, right?
	We got to Mars on June 19th with Viking.
	We did not land on Mars with Viking until July 20th, right?
	Right.
	Because we went into orbit.
	Unlike Pathfinder, it wasn't a bullet straight in.
	Right.
	We went into orbit.
	Right.
	And when they looked down ostensibly, they claimed that there were too many rocks at the intended landing site.
	So they had to go looking for more interesting and less dangerous terrain.
	And they looked and they looked and they looked and they finally, after, well, they were supposed to also land on July 4th.
	Did you know that?
	No.
	And they were supposed to land at 19.5.
	On Viking.
	Did you know that?
	No.
	Now this is interesting because this is long before Hoagland and company and all us other guys out here got involved to figure out the significance of the tetrahedral geometry and 19.5.
	Okay, we've covered that.
	20 years ago.
	Please, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, why is this spacecraft going to disappear?
	I'm getting there.
	This is complicated.
	I'm trying to make it simple.
	Without the pictures, it's not simple.
	So I'm looking at the previous pattern, which is when Viking actually did land on Mars, which was July 20th, the anniversary of the landing date in 69 of Neil and Buzz on the Moon.
	Yes, yes.
	Where Sirius was at 19.5, remember, above the lunar horizon.
	At that landing time, Sirius and Orion We're literally at the meridian on Mars, and I was able to pull this up in the computer and run the actual calculations and see it for myself.
	I'm looking at it right now.
	Yes.
	All right.
	And you know, the meridian is important when things are right on the line between North and South.
	That's part of this Egyptian mythos.
	Right.
	When the picture was taken, First picture of Cydonia, where the face and the pyramids are located, which was five days later.
	Looking down from the Viking orbiter?
	Yes.
	At that moment, which was 3.26 p.m.
	Greenwich Mean Time, on the 25th of July 1976, Orion was 19.5 degrees above the southeast horizon of Cydonia.
	And I'm looking at the computer plot For the landing time and site of Pathfinder, and nothing works.
	Nothing fits.
	It's just an ordinary sky.
	So just for the heck of it, I ran the computer up to July 20th, which is the anniversary of Neil and Buzz, the anniversary of Viking, and bingo!
	Everything popped out.
	At the landing site they're planning to land.
	Alright, now finally I think I've got it.
	In other words, You're saying the time for this spacecraft to land is July 20th, not July 4th.
	Precisely.
	Because Orion is exactly 19.5 degrees, the middle belt star, above the horizon.
	And if you're standing over at Cydonia, Leo, which is the key connection to Earth, to us, between Mars and Earth and the Giza Plateau, It's exactly on the meridian.
	Alright, now I have a layman's question.
	Let's assume that you are correct.
	Oh, I'm not done yet.
	Oh, nevertheless, let me be generous.
	No, no, I have to add one more data point.
	Alright, go ahead.
	So now I'm intrigued.
	And I ran the final calculation.
	In fact, there are two calculations.
	One is for tranquility.
	Suppose you were able to, on that afternoon, actually, it's afternoon in Greenwich time, it's 4.55 p.m.
	Greenwich time, on the 20th.
	Suppose at that moment, with Pathfinder landing on our calculation on Mars, with things at 19.5, Orion, suppose you were standing next to the descent module of the Eagle, the lunar module, at Tranquility on the Moon.
	Yes.
	All right.
	You would see Orion at 19.5 degrees above the western horizon.
	Right, I recall that.
	No, no, no.
	This is on the 20th.
	I mean, you've said that before.
	No, but remember, everything is moving art.
	That doesn't happen every year on the 20th.
	It happens rarely on the 20th, and rarely at the right time.
	In other words, for all these curves to cross, it is impossible as me going over there to Vegas and betting on 7.
	And having it come up every single time.
	I'm with you.
	There's no way this can be accidental.
	I'm with you.
	So, now we have an extraordinary, because that means, you know, you've got to back time this thing.
	That means that not only was the landing site on the moon chosen specifically to coincide 30 years ago with this Pathfinder landing on Mars, I also ran the numbers for the city of Phoenix.
	And the city of Phoenix figures in crucially, because at the moment that Pathfinder lands, if you're looking at the sky over Phoenix, which is broad daylight, all right?
	In the sky, Sirius and Orion will mimic the Sirius-Orion configuration over the Viking 1 landing site on Mars at that landing.
	And, just for good measure, Because that meant that somehow, Phoenix, the rebirth of the new from the old in the symbology, the connection to Leo, this American city sitting out there in the southwest tonight, had to be part of this equation, this grand, extraordinary plan from the beginning.
	So, I went back to the computer and plugged in the numbers for when Neil and Buzz landed 30 years ago on the moon.
	And at that moment, Remember I said Phoenix is at 33.30 degrees?
	Yes.
	At that moment when Sirius on the moon for Neil and Buzz was 19.5 above the horizon, at Phoenix at that exact instant when they sat down, it was at 33.30 degrees.
	Alright.
	So there's a huge integrated plan.
	And this plan has been carried out by men, human beings, In service to something so big and so grand that it's been driving the show behind the scenes, magically, as part of a secret ceremony, a secret tradition, a secret ritual for over a generation, for at least 30 years, and maybe a lot longer, because this, of course, brings up why does Phoenix have the name it does, and who put Phoenix where it is, because you can't move these data points around.
	In other words, if this is all going to work, All these places have to be related celestially.
	You're not moving planets around, you're simply moving dots on a map on the surface around and making things coincide at a certain time according to a celestial clock which a computer can calculate or an ancient text can predict from a previous computer that calculated it.
	Alright.
	Please let me ask a question.
	Please.
	Go ahead.
	Alright.
	From a layman's point of view, You have described this spacecraft, the Mars Pathfinder, as heading toward Mars like a bullet.
	You predict it will disappear and then suddenly reappear days later.
	NASA will be a hero, a heroic organization for having found it again.
	What I don't understand is, if this thing is proceeding toward Mars like a bullet, what can they do in that span of time It's an excellent question, and it's not a big difference.
	enough change so that this spacecraft reaches Mars on July 20th, the day you
	suggested should reach there to make sense, rather than July 4th? That's a big
	difference. It's an excellent question and it's not a big difference. Let me
	explain. All right.
	If you were to sit in space, you know, if you were God and looking down on the solar system from above the North Pole of the ecliptic, above the North Pole of the Earth's orbit, since the planets all orbit basically in the same plane, like a flat dinner plate, they are moving basically in the same dimension.
	There's not much variance above or below this common plane.
	You know, a few degrees, tens of degrees, something like that.
	When you send these spacecraft out on these trajectories, even for Pathfinder, on this fast, shallow trajectory, by the time you get to Mars, within a few days, you are moving parallel, or almost parallel, in this case within 15 degrees of parallel, to its orbit around the Sun.
	So you're closing in at a very shallow angle.
	I see.
	As you're catching it up from behind.
	Right?
	Now, you mentioned they had a lot of fuel on board.
	They have a lot of fuel.
	All right, so in other words... What I've done is run the numbers.
	They've got enough fuel that they could do a little retro rocket fire.
	It's not retro rocket.
	No?
	No.
	What you want to do is they had 93 kilograms, which is about 200 pounds.
	They used 25% of that in their first mid-course burn.
	They have four of these mid-courses targeted, or planned.
	By the way, the first burn was 33.3 meters per second.
	Alright, so what are you suggesting they will do to change the mechanics of this?
	They have to perform what's called a lateral burn, meaning sideways.
	And they have to stretch out their aiming point, so instead of encountering Mars here on the 4th, they encounter it slightly farther away on the 20th.
	Which is a slight angle deviation and the numbers, they have more than adequate fuel to do that.
	More than adequate.
	The problem is, it's not in the game plan.
	Why do they need to make the Pathfinder disappear in order to accomplish that?
	Why can't they just do it?
	Because they've already announced they're locked in politically to landing on Independence Day on the 4th.
	I see.
	If they were to suddenly announce for no reason That they had changed the 4th to the 20th.
	Someone would say, why?
	Because it requires an awful lot of additional complexity and, you know, things go wrong when you add complexity.
	So the secret guys that are running this have to somehow come up with an excuse so the honest guys don't figure it out.
	And the only way that I can think of for that to happen is if after the last data for that last midcourse on the 24th, is uploaded, the spacecraft has to have a hiccup.
	Something has to happen so that it goes away and it performs this trajectory correction to extend its trajectory, to extend its flight a few more days, 16 more days in the dark, which it can do.
	I mean, it's designed to run autonomously from its onboard computer command.
	You're not doing a two-way link with these things, right?
	Correct.
	So then, because the final landing has to be done with a TCM-5 or Midcourse-5 just before entry, a few hours before entry, they have to bring it back.
	So there will be a plausible hiccup.
	There will be a glitch.
	There will be some kind of communications problem, and it will disappear for a few days.
	And everyone will go crazy.
	And there will be serious faces on television saying, we're doing everything we can.
	And lo and behold, this time, they will find it, because those who are secretly running this, you know, hidden agenda, will flip switches, and it will then reappear for the guys who are honest, who have no clues to what's going on.
	And then they will try to make the best out of a changed situation.
	And they will be so close to Mars, that they will see that they can no longer reach the intended landing site.
	And my prediction is, That the other alternative that they will decide to go for will be Cydonia itself.
	Wow!
	Wow!
	He says again, wow!
	So, not only will there be a secret disappearance, there will be a miraculous reappearance, and the actual landing site is going to change to Cydonia.
	Wow, Richard.
	Now, we're at the top of the hour.
	That's called radio.
	That's called radio.
	Well, it was worth it.
	It was worth the wait to get here.
	This is an incredible prediction.
	Alright, stay where you are.
	When we come back, we'll talk about this.
	I'm Art Bell and you're listening to CBC.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
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	seven oh two seven two seven one two nine five first-time callers can reach
	art bell at seven oh two seven two seven one two two two seven oh two seven two
	seven one two two two now here again art bell what an absolutely incredible
	resolution to a very frustrating build-up I know it had to be done that
	way and I have some significant questions for Richard He is making a very profound short-term prediction, and that is that Mars Pathfinder will, within the next two or three days, be lost.
	Everybody will go crazy, and then suddenly it will be found again.
	But instead of landing on Mars on December 4th, If everything Richard has been talking about is correct, Pathfinder instead will land on July 20th.
	And it will not land where it was going to land.
	It will land instead at Cydonia.
	That's where we'll pick it up in a moment.
	Alright, back now to Richard Hoagland.
	Richard, my God, of all the places where they would land, Cydonia Which is the one region that you and I both know they have avoided like the plague, like the Martian plague, and you're telling me now they're going to go out of their way to land at Cydonia.
	Okay, let me expand on this.
	When you say they, we have to be careful to enumerate which they we're talking about.
	They who are behind the scenes.
	Let's leave it at that.
	Well, but there are two sets of they.
	I understand.
	There is a contingent that, like in Watergate, is recommending strongly the hangout route.
	Remember Ehrlichman and Haldeman and Dean and all that and the limited hangouts and the unlimited hangouts and Stonewalling?
	Yeah.
	The president was being urged to come clean all that.
	Well, there is a contingent in NASA, according to our sources, that really is getting close to the edge and realizes this can't go on much longer.
	And they have been pushing and voting and pressuring for an option that would basically blow the game wide open and create a stunning new game, a stunning new set of paradigms and options and opportunities.
	Then there's the old guard that are arguing on the basis of Brookings and other things that we can't handle it.
	I hear you.
	What we're seeing here, I believe, is a war between the new and the old.
	Now let me refer you to something that happened on your show just the other night.
	You had the two NASA representatives, Don Savage and Ray Blardot.
	That's right.
	You then asked David Oates, To run the analysis of their interview in reverse.
	I sent him a high-quality tape for that purpose, and he did, and the results were absolutely staggering.
	Even Mr. Oates, well, he called me, I'll tell you privately, Richard, or here on the air now, that he called me and he said, Art, these are so amazing, so staggering, that I'm almost afraid to play them on the air.
	I said, no, David, let's rock.
	Well, what's important for everyone to know, yourself included, is that I have been quietly aware of the science, I'm going to use that term specifically, the science of reverse speech, separate from David Oates and his efforts, for about ten years.
	And I know that it is being utilized in some very sensitive government functions.
	And I can tell you two specific places where I encountered it, where it was being used In negotiations and in the analysis of intelligence.
	One was the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which is where I first encountered it about ten years ago.
	And I encountered it at the staff level.
	And it was being used, albeit in a tentative, exploratory fashion, to augment the function of the committee, which is to hold hearings and to ascertain the truth of witnesses, things like that.
	The other area it was used in was by one of the major intelligence agencies of the United States government.
	And I got this from a key agent in one of those agencies.
	Now, this is a background that I've had in terms of perspective on this, that most of the people who listen to you, and most of the people who've been commenting in our conference over at Enterprise, have not until this evening had.
	And it was for that reason that I requested, when I talked with David Oates, we talked a few days ago, I asked him to prepare a summary statement of his research, which of course is independent of the Senate and independent of the intelligence community, and put it on our website, and I have now linked on our website to his website and to the complete transcript of the conversation, the interview that you conducted with Millard and with Savage.
	In those backward reversals, Which are Jungian archetypal subconscious communications.
	And we can get into how they might work in a couple of minutes, but let me hit the punchline here first.
	There are some extremely revealing statements which are very, very prescient of the analysis of Pathfinder that I have just laid out.
	Which ones specifically hit you?
	Let me read you one of them, alright?
	Yes.
	I'm going to scan down.
	I have it here in the computer.
	I'm on an Oats site right now.
	You had asked a question relating to taking pictures with Surveyor.
	Yes.
	Of Sedonia.
	Yes.
	And Ballard said, we'll tell everybody in advance the problem, meaning the orbit.
	The problem is we don't know now when we're going to be able to do that because it's impossible to predict how the orbit is going to be established.
	And the reversal said inaugural.
	New wine.
	One point of view.
	Send them off with that.
	Well, new wine is another metaphor for Phoenix.
	Rebirth from the ashes of the old.
	What would be a more stunning rebirth from the old than to finally lay out Cydonia in the new?
	Completely transform the current equation.
	Now that's one comment from that rather long and lacy interview.
	Which had all kinds of interesting tidbits, but the overall gestalt to me was that the agenda that those two spokespersons were enunciating on your show that night was a distinct variance with the inner knowledge and workings of the real program that they are privy to.
	Now we have to ask the question, how much do they really know?
	Are you surprised or were you surprised that Listening to the reversals, they were obviously aware of the larger agenda.
	I mean, after all, we're talking about a couple of PR guys here.
	Yeah, I was not surprised.
	Let me tell you what I think we ought to caution everybody.
	Oates himself called them NASA scientists, and that's an honest mistake, because David is not privy.
	I mean, he doesn't follow this stuff, so everybody thinks that when NASA people open their mouth, they're scientists.
	No, they're not.
	They are PR flax.
	Savage is a PR guy for headquarters and Vallard was for the Space Telecope Institute.
	Right.
	Their job is to get out front, like the President's press secretary, and say something.
	The less they know, the better, because if you're going to tell the lie, you've got to kind of half-believe the lie.
	Correct.
	Or at least not have your mind cluttered up with the truth, so you find it hard to remember which you're saying on which day.
	But as with any other human being, these are not dummies.
	These are people who are bright, who are plugged in, who are certainly asking questions.
	And like every American that knows subliminally there's something else going on, they have read the literature.
	They know what the wisdom is out there.
	And so what I saw in their subconscious statements, in the backward reversals, was the same kind of fear and apprehension and projections That a lot of other people who knew just enough to be dangerous would make, but not enough to really know what's going on.
	And so you have to take the specifics with a grain of salt, like the idea about weapons.
	I mean, what's a weapon?
	Knowledge can be a weapon.
	In this case, we know that the truth about Cydonia, the truth about extraterrestrial artifacts, the truth about what's on the STS-80 video, the truth itself is a weapon in an internal war within the system.
	One side against the other side.
	Well, I have become familiar enough with reverse speech to know that despite what we play for the public, which are the obvious, easy-to-hear reversals, the most profound reversals are the metaphoric reversals.
	And we don't frequently do those on the air because they're very difficult for the American people who don't have a trained ear to understand and interpret.
	Right.
	But the consistency is that the human speech pattern itself is extraordinarily archetypal when it's unfettered by a conscious visible agenda.
	Right.
	And this brings us back to Stan Tennant's work.
	Right.
	One of the things you're going to get into when you talk to Stan the next time is the idea of there is a natural universal algorithm for speech itself, which is not separated by culture or language barriers or whatever.
	But in fact, there is a universal nomenclature for things that the universe itself references, and that goes back to this hyperdimensional physical model of a multidimensional universe where the structure of reality itself mandates the language we use to express it.
	Now, this is an extraordinary variance with a lot of modern theories about language, except for those of a gentleman named Noam Chomsky.
	Someone, by the way, you probably should have on your show at some point.
	He's at MIT.
	Would love to.
	He has been a natural linguist, completely separate from Tenen and his work, but the two of them have arrived at a consensus point by separate roots.
	And so when I hear the reversals, and I know that there are algorithms which are fundamental to consciousness, that unfettered by an agenda, leak out, like the truth will out.
	I can make a pattern here where I can clearly see that those reversals were in context.
	They were specific in terms of what these gentlemen were thinking.
	Congruent.
	Apprehensible.
	They were congruent.
	Yes.
	And the clearest example is when you run Clinton, he's not thinking about Sedonia.
	When you run Ballard and Savage, they're not worried about Whitewater.
	Right.
	It's very context-specific.
	It's not noise and nonsense.
	No, it's congruent, either in revealing the truth or a lie, but congruent nevertheless with what is being discussed.
	There's no question about it.
	I have come to be an absolute believer in it, Richard.
	It cannot be denied.
	We've done too many hours of it, I believe.
	Well, I'm looking, I'm believing, but since I know that it's being used by people where the stakes are much higher, and it's used as another adjunct tool, Both in the intelligence community and at least one committee of the U.S.
	Congress.
	I have a different perspective on how much faith you can put in it, and it's pretty high.
	So I was not surprised.
	What was striking to me was the fear level.
	That we're dealing with human beings here who come off as professionals, who come off as calm and smooth and we know what we're doing.
	And when you remove the lid you find that they're really very fearful and apprehensive of things that are taking place.
	Well now go to the guys behind them that really know.
	What is their fear level?
	What agenda have they structured for the last 10, 20, 30, 40 years based on fear of the unknown as opposed to an embracing Of an extraordinary future connected to an extraordinary past.
	All right.
	What happens when Mars Pathfinder lands at Cydonia?
	Is that the moment chosen to... Is that the aha moment?
	The Brookings moment?
	When suddenly it is going to be revealed to us that indeed these structures at Cydonia are not natural.
	Well, it will be undeniable if this is the plan, that when you look from the surface with those cameras, you're going to see, you know, things like the lawn furniture.
	And that gets back to the structure of the mission itself.
	If you were to design a spacecraft to get down into Cydonia and survive, because it's a tight space, you've got targeting errors, you don't know what other junk there is in the sand that we're not seeing at the level of the Viking data, It's a very dangerous place to try to land anything.
	Sure.
	This is the only technology that we could put together to do it.
	Now, here's some other data points.
	Yes, but what I'm asking is, what do you think will happen?
	In other words, will it be a revelation moment when we're finally going to, in effect, say to the world, okay, here it is, we've made the discovery, what a stroke of luck, an accident, and we had to land here, and now here it is, ladies and gentlemen, Uh, Brookings aside, guess what?
	It's not natural.
	What a revelation.
	Well, I think, I think what's going to happen, you're going to see a, you're going to see some kind of plausible excuse for why Cydonia is kind of the last way to rescue a mission.
	Donna Shirley, who is the program manager at JPL, was asked by one of my colleagues that night when I was not allowed to be there at the Cape and asked my own questions.
	What they expected from the mission.
	Yes.
	And she said, we'll be thankful just to get it down there.
	Now, when you're spending $150 million on a mission, and you basically only care that it gets to anywhere on Mars, that is, to me, an open invitation to go someplace really interesting.
	Number two, are you aware that Caltech and NASA and JPL have quietly signed a licensing agreement with Mattel?
	No.
	Mattel has created a replica of the Pathfinder rover and the spacecraft with articulated moving parts and little wheels and all this.
	And they are set and waiting in the wings for a major marketing campaign to sell little miniature Pathfinder rovers and spacecraft to all the kids in America they can reach.
	Now, isn't it interesting that the only reason that people might want to buy little rovers is that maybe Pathfinder is going to do something stunningly interesting and historic?
	And so you do believe that will occur?
	I'm looking at the data.
	I'm trying to organize this in a pattern that makes sense.
	Alright, so this is the first moment that I've heard you hedge a little bit.
	Now, let me go back and ask you a very hard question, Richard.
	You've got your neck out a million miles on this one.
	Pathfinder lands, as programmed, July 4th, not July 20th.
	And you are wrong.
	Does that collapse the entire carefully constructed scenario that you've laid out so carefully for us?
	Well, remember, we have two camps here.
	We have two forces at war for control.
	We have the Suppression Camp and the, I'll call it, the Empowerment Camp.
	Yeah, okay.
	Within the system.
	For a name.
	The Empowerment Camp, I think, is drawing on a lineal descendancy going back before Kennedy.
	Whoever set this in motion, connecting all these dots, all these connections with Egypt and the symbology and all that, it isn't random.
	There's incredibly important meaning here.
	There's meaning in terms of prior history and human civilization and who we are and our identity, and it's somehow connected to Phoenix.
	Now, I've only discovered the Phoenix part in the last, you know, few days because of the impending strangeness around Phoenix after Francis Barwood's treatment and looking at what that sighting was all about.
	If you connect that sighting on March 13th, Which, by the way, was the night of Old Navy, which we'll get into in the next hour.
	And the STS-80 video.
	Remember, who's flitting around an STS-80 at 19.5?
	There are other players here, Art.
	We're not the only ones interested in the outcome of this saga.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, and we'll be right back to you.
	And yes, we are about to open the phone lines.
	coming up next this is cbc this once again
	here is richard hoagland and richard there are a lot of people sitting
	waiting to talk to you you.
	Okay, let me make one more statement here.
	Alright, go ahead.
	I have not taken leave of my senses, and I know full well what I am doing in terms of putting the fragile credibility that we've spent 15 years building up on the line.
	I think it is so important that people in this country wake up and realize that a tiny handful of people, some of them with what they believe are the best motives, are not living up to the constitutional mandates of the founders of this nation.
	And it's time to simply take control back to where it belongs.
	Now, if I have to put myself out on the edge of this surfboard and hang ten, I am perfectly willing to do that, provided The data supports me.
	And what I'm going to put on the web tomorrow, and in the next couple days, is the data that goes back over 30 years.
	If this pattern is going to be abrogated, it must be abrogated by something equally astounding.
	Something truly amazing has to happen to break this pattern, because somebody has put tremendous thought and care and energy And money, your money and my money, into doing this in secret.
	And it's a very ancient and long tradition.
	If that pattern is violated, it will tell us as much as if it is fulfilled.
	So, I'm willing to go out and predict that based on this pattern, something different than what we've been told about Pathfinder has got, I repeat, has got to happen.
	Now the exact scenario Depends on how clever they are at creating the cover stories.
	I can imagine a scenario where it doesn't disappear at all.
	It just takes on a mind of its own, and they all throw up their hands and say, holy gee whiz, it's running away, and they then... Okay, it doesn't matter how it occurs.
	That's what I mean.
	Don't hold me to that.
	No, I'm not holding you to that, but if in fact it lands on July 20th rather than the 4th, you will be correct.
	However it occurs really is That's the first part.
	I'm glad we're all on the same page.
	Number two, the second prediction is something major is going to happen in Phoenix.
	Phoenix?
	Phoenix, Arizona.
	Like what?
	Ah, there are already bizarre rumors of the most outrageous kind, up to and including martial law.
	And this... Oh, okay, I'm reading that on the internet.
	I would not have mentioned it except for what you just said, Richard.
	There is a There are rumors of military forces headed toward that area on the internet.
	Now, I give it no weight.
	Well, let me tell you why I give it some weight, and I'll tell you what kind of weight I give it.
	If you're looking at this in a metaphysical perspective, and let me define what I mean by that, hyperdimensional physics is metaphysics.
	It's a physics that encompasses everything from technology to consciousness, from how stars function, To who we really are, right?
	Yes.
	If something extraordinarily positive is about to happen.
	Yes.
	That will break human consciousness open.
	Yes.
	The other guys, the other side, are going to try to screw it up.
	Now, how do you screw things up on planet Earth?
	You make people afraid.
	And you divert them.
	You're suggesting there's going to be some sort of terrible act.
	No, I'm suggesting that someone is suggesting there could be a terrible act, and hoping that the fears of people will run rampant.
	And the place would be Phoenix?
	Yeah.
	Now, Phoenix is critically important.
	We've now figured out, we think, again with this incredible team of people that I've been fortunate to work with, we've figured out a possible reason for the seminal importance of Phoenix.
	And that takes us hundreds of years, hundreds of thousands of years.
	Back before the current city of Phoenix.
	Remember, Art, what we're talking about.
	We're talking about a time in the solar system when someone, most likely us, human beings, alright, lived on a multiplicity of planets and had a sterling golden age of civilization that was unprecedented and unparalleled and we can only dream of it.
	We get snippets of it as fables and legends and archetypes and Mythos of this incredible golden age.
	An era of Eden, perhaps.
	Remember the references in the NASA guides to Eden?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And something happened.
	And you and I and Tom Van Planner and a few others have had discussions about what might have happened and a war.
	Where weapons so horrible they literally blew planets apart may have been used.
	And NASA's efforts to keep us from knowing this, ignoring the data, Which is all around us that Tom may in fact be right.
	Yes.
	In fact, Tom, when he was on the show last time, discussed specifically that Mars could have been one of the satellites... I recall.
	...of this planet.
	Yes.
	The numbers are pretty amazing.
	If that's true, then you have to ask yourself, is it possible that this piece of desert, now where Phoenix lies, was sight of something much grander?
	A long, long, long time ago.
	One of my colleagues this afternoon used the term Sister City.
	But why Phoenix now?
	Ah, well, let me get to that.
	Oh, you've got to, because I've got people on hold, Richard.
	They're paying for it, so... Um, because it may have been intended historically to mark the place of the ancient connection beyond the Earth to Mars.
	Alright, what would be the reason for the creation of some sort of incident, whatever we imagine it might be, in Phoenix?
	Well, again, you're using the word incident.
	I'm saying that the rumors, the fear.
	Remember, after Oklahoma City, all you have to do is flick your eyebrow, and people get scared.
	That's right.
	It has triggered a paralysis reaction.
	That's right.
	To where, look, if someone were to set off a firecracker, In a garbage can in Phoenix, on the 20th, or the 18th, or the 19th, or whatever.
	The media would be all over Phoenix, given all these rumors.
	And we could land on Mars and have live Martians come out of the pyramids, and they'd be ignored.
	Practically.
	Alright?
	In other words, this could be a wondrous diversion.
	Because of this connection, this seminal, symbolic connection, because in the numbers and in this cartography we're going to put on the web, Phoenix has played a pivotal role celestially in the targeting of the landing sites on the moon, and in the picking of the time and the date of the landing site on Mars, going back over 30 years.
	We can prove that.
	So, you're suggesting, whatever it is, it would be a diversion?
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	All right.
	Really, let's go to the lines.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Where are you?
	Houston, Texas.
	Go right ahead.
	Richard, in 1969, I was at La Costa, Rancho Santa Fe area in California.
	Saw a newspaper with big headlines that said UFOs in L.A.
	skies.
	Went to get a newspaper.
	The long and short of the story is I met a man there who seemed to be strange and four years later married him after borrowing his newspaper.
	He was in La Costa because he had just been appointed ambassador with Nixon and was in San Clemente.
	So Ambassador Franz Heim and I, in 1979, began my quest to work on an archaeological project.
	I ran into Zahi Hawass when he was a graduate student at the University of Pennsylvania.
	In 1981, I succeeded in getting the American Research Center in Egypt, in Cairo, to allow my husband and I and my daughter to participate on the restoration of the Sphinx.
	I did that by making a contribution of $20,000 toward the research and restoration work with an Indian doctor, professor at the University of Kentucky in Louisville.
	And with that, I also, during around that time, secured permission, and I'm not sure how I did this, to get into the Great Pyramid alone.
	I lost my son in 1970 and thought that by getting into the King's Chamber, into the sarcophagus, I would be able to contact my son's spirit.
	I was very afraid when I realized I was alone in the pyramid, and I only contacted my fear.
	After that, I had a confrontation with Dr. Ahmed Qadri, who was chairman of the Egyptian Antiquities Organization at the time, and I told him I was not going to raise another $100,000 that I had committed to, because It had been brought to my attention that the restoration on the Sphinx was the improper mortar, and I ended up having a coverage by Time Magazine, I believe it was in the May 10th, 1982 issue, where I caused a bit of an international scandal because this was all made public.
	The point of this is that I then was called to Washington by then-Ambassador Uh, Gorbal, who, uh, I was a personal friend of, and he said, Susan, it's very important that we not have a divorce with you, that you and Egypt do not get divorced.
	And I said, no, it's only a separation.
	I didn't get in touch with Gorbal until 1994, when I went to his office in Cairo.
	However, the year before, 1993, in Houston, Zahi Hawass, Then, already, the director of the Giza Plateau was giving a lecture on the discovery of the workers' excavations.
	And with that, I had brought, I was surprising him, and I brought a very large box of papers from my years of compiling things from all different sources on the Sphinx.
	And I said, Zahi, I would really like you to take this stuff.
	And he said, well, I'm traveling and I can't do that.
	He said, let me just look through it quickly.
	And he came upon a file that was on the Hall of Records.
	And his face really changed.
	And he said, oh, I really need this.
	Can I have this?
	And I said, Zahi, all these papers and things are for you.
	He said, I'm going to Dallas to an important meeting.
	I'm going to take this.
	I said, fine.
	In 1994, my partner and I, we went to Zahi's office.
	And we met privately with him there.
	There was a German archaeologist there, and there were some problems.
	And I remember Zahi was going to give my partner and I a private tour of the Sphinx with the new restoration work, but he was held up.
	He assigned someone to us.
	We went on our tour, and we had a private dinner with Zahi that night with Dr. Mark Lehner.
	And Mark, who wasn't a PhD at the time that I worked on the Sphinx project, Was there with Zahi and the Deputy Minister for Culture, Dr. Mohamed Ghonim, who was a personal friend from years ago as well.
	Okay, in the interest of time, we've got to... Yes.
	My curiosity... First of all, I don't know why I placed myself or have been placed for almost 30 years in this conversation involving UFOs and involving Egypt.
	I've always, however, felt that I never belonged to my family, and I've always felt left out that a UFO never contacted me.
	I don't know how I'm being used or what the purpose is for me having a house full of documentation of all sorts that I still haven't gotten rid of, and I have no use for it now, so I'd love to send that to you or to someone.
	A friend died recently, willed me all her books.
	I just came back from Washington, where I picked them up.
	And I was going to deliver them to my friend David Kaplan, who's working on the Mars probe at NASA.
	However, this woman's husband was Dr. Tony Calio, the former head of NOAA.
	And I have these books.
	They seem important.
	I'm not interested in them.
	And I seem to be getting to what's next.
	I would not be on the phone with you tonight, nor would I have ever listened to this KTRH radio if there wasn't this tornado or level one hurricane winds here in Houston today.
	And I had no power.
	I couldn't go to sleep, and I put on the radio.
	So, the confluence of all of this, the synergy, the synchronicity... I called KTRH because I wanted to send a word to you.
	I couldn't get through.
	Dialing, dialing for hours.
	Finally, I called KTRH.
	I got a very negative report about the two of you.
	That did not deter me, but the person was very helpful.
	Gave me your fax number and all these other numbers.
	I prepared a fax.
	My partner was trying to send it.
	Couldn't get through.
	And there's some meaning in this.
	I intend to be an agent for change and For the last 30 years, I've devoted myself to giving people wake-up calls.
	All right, ma'am, we have got to cut it off at this point.
	Contact Richard Hoagland.
	You've got his fax number.
	If you don't, I'll give it to you.
	No, I only have the 7021.
	All right, then, Richard, please give her your fax number.
	Okay.
	Area code 201-271-1703.
	1703.
	All right.
	All right, I want you to have mine.
	We cannot give that on the air, ma'am.
	Okay, fine.
	seven oh three alright alright i want you to have mine well we cannot give that on the air ok fine put on the back
	uh... going to do it before you leave let me say something
	This is an extraordinary first call, Art, because one of the things I wanted to do tonight is ask people all across America who have bits and pieces of this puzzle, particularly in the Phoenix area, to please contact us.
	And obviously, Susan, you got that message before I could even utter it.
	Strange.
	No, appropriate.
	Yeah, got it.
	So we'll be in touch.
	All right.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Susan.
	Take care.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Richard.
	Yes, sir.
	I don't know if we can take another week like we did last week.
	I'm a wreck.
	This is Jerry in northern Michigan.
	A couple of quick questions and let me get off the air so somebody else can talk.
	Didn't Robert Morning Sky or Ghost Wolf talk about some meeting in the South Desert sometime this summer?
	That must be a question for me, not Richard.
	Do you have a question for Richard?
	Yeah, I sure do.
	Richard, let me ask you this.
	If you drew a line through the Great Pyramid in Egypt, Using the side angle of, what is it, 51 point some odd degrees, would that line going northwest, would that bisector come anywhere close to Stonehenge?
	Yes.
	Well, can we tie that together with the Doug Ruby the other night and the explanation of the crop circles?
	I heard you on there commenting to Mr. Ruby.
	There's no doubt there's a global grid.
	These key monuments are on it.
	It is a mnemonic device to get us to remember something that's important, which is not Kilroy was here.
	It appears to be this physics, which is a key to everything from the universe to consciousness that appreciates the universe.
	And there's a really set of interconnected threads here, data points that are falling on the floor so rapidly, including, you know, the consciousness that Stan talked about at the beginning of last week.
	And then Gene Maloff on Tuesday talking about a practical energy technology and a physics that can literally reduce radioactivity with half-lives of billions of years in hours on live television on ABC.
	We're moving, it's not a quickening, it's a warping.
	I mean, we're warping out at warp 9 here to some point.
	What I don't want to see happen is a tiny elite Manipulating this curve for their own ends, while the rest of us kind of stand around and say, duh, what's going on here?
	Well, there has been almost too much synchronicity for even me.
	And I've had quite a lot of synchronicity, Richard, but the last couple of weeks, now including this week, really have been almost too much, and the people who listen And really listen to this program, I think, feel exactly the same way.
	There's only so much coincidence any person can stand without beginning to come to conclusions as you have begun to come to them.
	Now, I want to ask you this.
	Consider it during the break.
	Again, with reference to what's going to occur to Pathfinder, or more accurately, the date of the landing.
	Now, if the date of the landing Is not July 20th.
	What is that going to mean to you in terms of all your research?
	Not the method of the changing, but if... Anyway, let me finish it when we get back from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell and this is CBZ.
	You're listening to an encore performance of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
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	And now, Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Now, the question I was trying to get out prior to the break at the top of the hour was simply there has been a very great deal of careful, even at times painful documentation by Richard of the forces and the A synchronicity of what's going on, 30 years of it, which points, in his opinion, to what will occur with Mars Pathfinder.
	Here is a rather harsh response to what he said.
	Art, it seems everyone and everything has a very deep meaning and significance.
	In other words, that silly woman-caller.
	Wake up, Art.
	Wake up, Richard.
	were little furry insignificant animals living near a rather normal star amongst billions.
	The ridiculous egotism and your self-importance, and the self-importance of nearly all your guests, is laughable.
	How's that for a data point? From Dan in Van Nuys.
	Okay, from Dan. You know, this is an interesting philosophical juncture.
	Dan's perspective is the perspective of an awful lot of people.
	You bet.
	And it is killing us.
	Now, my perspective is different.
	I don't know whether we're just little furry creatures near a normal star, to quote my dear friend Carl, or whether Carl has gone on to more interesting and wondrous things and is sitting somewhere wondering when the rest of us are all going to get with the program now.
	Because, you see, that's what this is all about.
	It's about finding out.
	Dan has his mind made up.
	I don't.
	I'm following a yellow brick road, and I'm going to see what is behind the next curve and through the next door and over the next transom if I can.
	I don't have an outcome that I'm presupposing or projecting.
	i well you are presupposing though that though you won't tell
	it though you can't tell us specifically the method they will use
	they will in some way delay the landing uh... of mars pathfinder from july fourth
	to july There's no magic here.
	They'll use the thrusters, all right?
	I understand.
	The question is, what will the cover story be?
	OK, I don't care how they do it.
	What you're saying is, they will do it.
	The method, I don't care.
	You're saying they will do it.
	This pattern is as robust as... And when you said opinion, no, this is not opinion.
	Look, I run these numbers, these landing site calculations, past the people who got us to the moon.
	Who are willing to stand front and center and be identified.
	They don't want to be anonymous, they want to be identified out there so their colleagues can analyze this data from a data point of view.
	They're the ones that affirm to me that for this pattern to be repeated over and over and over and over and over again, it can't be accidental.
	Yes, there are a lot of rocks that make up your yellow brick road, and you're a long way down it right now.
	And the next conclusion is, if this has any projective meaning, they're not going to miss the biggie,
	which is what it's all pointing toward, which is, at some point, this story has to come to a catharsis.
	There has to be a climax.
	There has to be a point to 30, 40 years of weirdness and skullduggery and stinking around
	in the bushes and not telling people the truth while taking billions and billions from their
	pockets. That may be this summer with a seminal event, which would be if this thing lands in
	Sedonia and we get to see it on television and the ones that want to hide it don't succeed,
	then a whole new era, a whole new day, a new phoenix will be born that will begin a transformation
	of Homo sapiens on this planet and a reconnection with an awful lot of mystery that currently
	most people aren't even aware of.
	The forces arrayed against that art are pretty overwhelming.
	Now, the reason I decided to take the high-risk, high-profile route tonight, and I put a lot of thought into this and discussed it with a lot of people in Enterprise, is because people matter.
	If this is more than just about little furry creatures around a G-type star, it means this physics is a palpable thing which can be altered by our very thoughts.
	And what I'm hoping is that I can connect with enough of those 15 million plus people who we keep talking about that listen to you every night.
	And those people in their heart of hearts really want this new era to be born.
	They really want to know.
	And the collective of their wishes will help to overpower those who don't want us to know, who don't want us to grow, who don't want us to reach beyond our grasp.
	And that's really the experiment tonight, because if we all kind of think about this and what it might mean, and the extraordinary new level of human drama that could unfold right on our live television screens this summer, I think the good guys can win this time.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Happy birthday.
	Thank you.
	This is great.
	I share your sentiments about we're not small furry creatures and so forth.
	Richard?
	Well, we may be small and furry, but we're more than creatures.
	We're not insignificant.
	And by the way, some of my best friends are furry creatures.
	Yes.
	And one of them is up on the web.
	And the good guys will most assuredly win.
	I wanted to share some data points with you about the Great Pyramid and the Phoenix.
	Okay.
	The Great Pyramid actually was, I don't know what you're going on as the dating points that you're starting from for reference points having to do with the other pyramids in the area, but the Great Pyramid itself actually is totally different from the others and it was built, unbeknownst to most scholars, it was built with the cornerstone being laid on June 21st, 3434 B.C.
	Which puts it considerably earlier than most scholars would like to have it.
	Let me back you there.
	What is your source reference on this?
	This is based on the Great Pyramid itself.
	And the mathematics contained within it.
	So this is the Pyramid Inch and the name's equivalent to a year and all that, right?
	Well, that's part of it.
	Okay.
	It also has to do with the fact that the only way that the pyramid could be lined up such as it is, true north, true south, and so forth, ...is for it to have had, as a reference point, a polar star.
	There are only two times in the last 6,000 years when we've had a polar star exactly where it had to be to line up that pyramid.
	One was June 21st, 2144 B.C., which is right around the commonly accepted time for the beginning of construction of the pyramid.
	...is June 21, 3434 BC, and there's a lot of evidence to support the pyramid being around at that time having to do with Native American cultures.
	There's a stone type used in the pyramid, using the capstone, used to build the capstone and the sarcophagus, which is only found in one other part of the world, and that happens to be just a few miles outside of Racine, Wisconsin.
	Well, the problem is there is no capstone.
	There's a missing... Well, the capstone actually was found.
	It was found buried in a socket next to the Great Pyramid.
	It was taken and there's a... It's actually in the Museum of Cairo, but it's not on display.
	There's a mock-up of it on display.
	Okay, now the point of it being older is?
	The point of it being older is that The entire system that's been constructed around Orion, Osiris, Isis, Horus, Orion, and so forth, that's an overlay.
	That's an overlay.
	There's a plan that's so much greater than having to do with what they've been talking about the Great Pyramid having to do with.
	It doesn't have, in itself, anything to do with Orion.
	Those other pyramids and the other structures around it were built considerably after it, as afterthoughts by rather egotistical pharaohs.
	But the pyramid itself was built by a man known as Enoch.
	And the reason we know that is because of the legends having to do with the phoenix, tied in with the Great Pyramid.
	Phoenix is the Greek form of the Egyptian name Pa-Henak.
	And Pa-Henak means Father of the House of Enoch.
	Now, these things all coincide, actually, in Racine, Wisconsin.
	And it has to do with this country.
	Now, Phoenix, Arizona is interesting, like you say, because of the name.
	But the name has to do with Enoch, who is the builder of the Great Pyramid.
	You've absolutely lost me, Richard.
	Well, there are several alternative historical and prehistorical constructions for what may have happened at Giza and what it means.
	This is one of them.
	The point is that each of these separate theories can be tested provided we get more honesty and openness and access to real data.
	Well, I have some real data on the origin of the rock that the sarcophagus is made of and the original capstone.
	What is the source of your data?
	Well, we have samples that were taken by People and we've taken these samples and done various tests on them.
	We've tested them for content, grain structure, and chemical analysis, optical emission spectrometry findings.
	And what we found is that two of them, the original piece from the sarcophagus and the piece Mind out of a lava flow from near a lava flow in outside of Racine, Wisconsin, actually have identical spectral analysis, identical chemical analysis, and identical grain structure, and they're the only two that do.
	And there's only two other sources known in the world of that black chocolate rhyolite type granite.
	All right.
	Well, here's what I would say, sir.
	There's a great significance to this, and I'll boil it right down.
	All right, please.
	That is that it's all about the return of a person who spiritually fulfills prophecy for the return of Enoch, okay?
	And he was born right outside of Racine, Wisconsin, right near where the white buffalo was born several years ago.
	And he's been teaching a number of us, and We're actually very few in number, but we're working, ultimately, for the same thing you, Richard Hoagland, are working for.
	All right.
	Well, what I would suggest is that you fax Richard, or contact Richard, and supply him with the actual data you have.
	Now, that did sound like somebody with good, hard, researched data, Richard.
	I'm sure you're willing to take a look.
	Absolutely.
	My fax number is 201-271-1703.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Victoria.
	All right.
	Steven?
	Yes.
	Quickly, I might as well run through all this.
	I think that Richard might be able to find something with... There's apparently one scripture in the Bible about When the lion lays down with the lamb.
	And if it's a constellation, he might find some answers there.
	And with regards to Nassau, apparently when Avro Arrow, the company in Canada, was shut down by Diefenbaker, most of those people were moved to Nassau.
	And there might be a trail I'm worth following back from their time frames and everything else.
	And I was just wondering if that quite possibly could tie in with the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the time release of the files when they were going to have them finally released.
	I think it was supposed to be 2025 or something like that.
	They were to be sealed for 50 years, I believe.
	Richard?
	Well, I mean, the assassination Apparently cut off or co-opted a plan that Kennedy and the people around him were really implementing in the Apollo program.
	And we will never know, or we might not know for a long time anyway, whether it was picked up by others and carried through.
	What is intriguing to me is the consistency of this pattern over decades.
	And we're not talking about a trivia consistency, we're talking about Landing and orbits and calculations on planetary placements and celestial phenomena that are so intricate that literally only, you know, maybe a whole mainframe back then could have done it.
	And it's even difficult now to corroborate using some of the best state-of-the-art technology and programs that we have at our fingertips today.
	This is not a trivial plan.
	And my solidity of You know, predicting this stuff is that if it is not trivial, if the reasons behind it are significant, if they are as weighty as I believe, then it cannot be abrogated, and it must be followed, and if it's followed, then it will indicate to those of us that are not on the plan that there is a plan, because it has to change what they're telling us is going to happen in a couple of weeks.
	What if you're wrong?
	Well, scientists can be wrong.
	You know, if you're wrong, you go back and you ask yourself, what have I learned from being wrong?
	Then you've got to go back and really rethink the entire thing, because at that point, this long brick road of data points that you've built toward making this prediction... Well, remember that the road you're talking about, the yellow brick road here, is a political road.
	It's attempting to impute meaning to a pattern.
	It can be abrogated if the forces that don't want this to work are overwhelming those that do want it to work.
	In other words, if at the last minute the other guys, the suppressors, succeed and they land this thing where nothing interesting is going on, then of course it will go on as planned.
	The very fact that there are these noises about Phoenix, the very fact that there is this weirdness out there about fear and loathing and horror in the heartland, or in this case in Phoenix, Arizona, indicates to me that it isn't a lead pipe since those guys are going to win this time.
	That there's too much effort put into the other side, and that maybe we can give them a little help here.
	Because the transformation of consciousness, if in fact we get to see what's waiting at Well, it's an amazing thing, Richard.
	That's all I can say.
	warned that that we can even contemplate tonight if that thing lands where the numbers
	it's gonna land well uh... it's an amazing
	it's an amazing thing richard that's all i can say and uh... if it occurs
	there are going to be a lot of people after this program that are going to sit
	straight up and uh...
	uh... probably their chins are going to get their chests and it'll be a new day
	for the world because we'll be learning about things that we should have known about long long ago
	Would that be about right?
	That's about right.
	All right.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be right back.
	We've got another half hour to go.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest is Richard C. Hoagland.
	What do you think, folks?
	From the high desert, this is CBZ.
	All right.
	Here is a simple, but to use Richard's words, word, elegant question.
	Art, please ask Richard, why didn't NASA pick the 20th in the first place to avoid all of this?
	Because the contingent that wants to get to Cydonia doesn't want us to know it's getting to Cydonia.
	That makes sense.
	See, both sides are playing this secret game.
	We're not in the loop.
	We're not in the conversation.
	As my late friend, Dr. Sagan, once said.
	And that's our problem.
	The way we get in the conversation is to interpret the cover story when it hits, to understand what it really means.
	And that's why I'm going out on this very long limb tonight.
	Something has to give here, and the way to do it is to simply call it.
	Now, I'm betting that the... Let me give you a little story.
	When I was a kid in high school, learning physics, I had a brilliant teacher of physics.
	And he did things that would make people who weren't into physics really pay attention.
	And he had a love of the subject, and it was obvious that he communicated because he loved the subject.
	And I remember one day in class, you know, sitting there all as freshmen in this, you know, room, big, old, ancient school, very high ceilings, and he had this cannonball.
	Mounted on a long steel piano wire, stretching up into the darkness of this auditorium.
	Must have been 50, 60 feet up in the air.
	And what he did is, he walked back to the side wall, taking the cannonball with him.
	And he put it right up to his chin.
	And his head is back against the wall, right?
	And all us guys are sitting there saying, what in the world?
	And he lets the cannonball go.
	And it swings in a majestic arc, agonizingly slowly, because the wire was very long, out across the auditorium, over to the other wall, and then back toward our professor, standing there.
	And he can't go back any further, he's right back against the wall, and there's this collective, And it comes right up to within maybe an inch or his chin and stops.
	Of course.
	And hangs there.
	Of course.
	And then swings back out.
	Of course.
	And of course we're all going, oh!
	And he turns to us and he says, physics.
	Yeah, sure.
	Why were you worried?
	In other words, I'm confident tonight that I'm going to make an absolute ass of myself on the radio in front of a lot of people because The numbers say we have to be right.
	And this is going to be a very interesting test.
	It certainly is.
	It's going to be an interesting week.
	This is the end.
	And now back to the best of Art Bell.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with the interesting Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hi!
	Hello!
	How are you this evening?
	Well, you're listening.
	I am absolutely riveted to my radio.
	I have not been able to turn away.
	Where are you, dear?
	I'm in Phoenix.
	Oh, wonderful!
	I was getting shivers and I wondered, Richard, if you thought that the recent sighting here with the lights in the sky had anything to do with this.
	Absolutely.
	What relation?
	Well, I have met with Frances Barwood.
	After Art had her on the show, I was down in the Southwest visiting some friends.
	We decided after we had gone to visit you, Art, that we would go and see Frances Barwood.
	We spent about a day and a half with her and her very nice husband, Mike.
	We had an extraordinarily interesting time and learned a lot about her politics and her representation.
	The astonishing opposition she's encountered for simply asking the question.
	Yes.
	Like in Oliver, what?
	Me, sir?
	I mean, what's happened to this woman for simply wanting to know what was flitting over Phoenix a mile across with all those lights, photographed by God knows how many people and she's got videos now and eyewitness testimony and all that.
	The cover-up that is going on in Phoenix over something that should be so intriguing to officialdom Given the responsibilities that they've been elected to carry out, in itself is telling you something interesting.
	The next thing is, it turns out in the last several weeks, George Bush and Dan Quayle have been in Phoenix four or five times, on various reasons.
	And that I find interesting, given the politics and background of their Involvement with this so-called hidden agenda vis-a-vis NASA.
	Alright.
	Which we don't have time to go into.
	What do the lights have to do with any of this?
	The lights, I think... Well, first of all, you've got to ask yourself, what were the lights?
	Obviously, somebody was behind them.
	Yep.
	And a lot of people saw it.
	And the videos I've seen, they're not flares.
	They're nothing normal.
	I agree.
	But we agree.
	Alright.
	So, that leaves either a top-secret military project.
	Grandstanding over Phoenix.
	Or...
	A genuine visit from somebody with a bit of technology we don't have.
	If it hadn't been, I gotta tell you this, if it hadn't been for the lights, I would not have begun looking at Phoenix as part of this equation.
	So it certainly woke me up to begin to ask, what's going on with Phoenix?
	And find what we found in terms of this celestial pattern and the tie-in with Cydonia and with the Moon and Pathfinder.
	The other thing that it tells me is that somebody wants Phoenix to be highlighted in the news, to be made aware of.
	And that, of course, gets to the heart of what's the role Phoenix plays in this.
	And it turns out that it plays an extraordinary role going back at least 100 years.
	I've got a history sitting here in front of me.
	In 1867, a guy named Jack Swilling from Wickenburg, Arizona, actually redid some of the Hohokam irrigation systems.
	Set up what would ultimately be known as the town of Phoenix, although it didn't have a name.
	In 1870, a permanent town site was selected at the corner of Jefferson and First Street, where there now is something called Patriot Park.
	And there was a seven-person committee set up to select a name.
	An unknown arrival, a guy who came from nowhere named Daryl Dupa, suggested the name Phoenix out of the blue.
	for the history of the bird phoenix coming out of the ashes and we're doing a lot of reference work on this there's apparently one quote that is come down to us from that meeting where he said from the ashes comes the savior of the world now that's kind of interesting in connection with a seminal consciousness raising event connected potentially to an ancient heritage on another planet So, you begin to wonder if Mr. Dupa was perhaps a Mason.
	The story gets more interesting.
	In 1874, President Ulysses Grant gave, quote, a patent of acceptance to the city of Phoenix.
	And in 1881, the city was incorporated as Phoenix.
	In other words, the President of the United States, through some machination of executive order, Did a special commission.
	We don't know what a patent means.
	We're going to find out.
	But Phoenix goes all the way to Washington in terms of its sighting, its latitude, longitude, and the kind of official significance of its very name in American history by the President, duly elected by the people of this country.
	Something interesting is going on.
	Now, if you look into ancient NATO traditions, It turns out that Phoenix is on the site of, supposedly, one of the seven cities of gold.
	Remember the seven cities of Sibyla?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Seven, of course, is tetrahedral.
	Is it?
	And gold, of course, is tetrahedral.
	We don't have time to go into why gold is tetrahedral, but we will on a future show, alright?
	There's a reason why gold is valuable.
	And bright and yellow and does not decay, does not corrode.
	It's because of its tetrahedral hyperdimensional nature.
	That's for a future program.
	But here's something really important.
	If there are convoys of military guys running around Phoenix, alright, is it possible that they're getting ready to be on the site where some important trigger effect, some technological, some physical, perhaps signal Will be heard or found on that particular day on the 20th, which will indicate to somebody in the know where to dig for something important.
	And wouldn't it be nice for all you Phoenicians out there tonight to be kind of prowling around town and looking for guys with equipment and bags of equipment or trucks or unusual things To see if you can be there when they find it.
	I will say this, for whatever it's worth, and I mentioned it earlier and I'm going to mention it again.
	I'm getting messages on the internet, which I discounted and which I normally would just trash, saying there are large military contingents headed toward Phoenix.
	Ma'am, have you heard this?
	Just from you.
	Okay.
	You know, it's very interesting that Phoenix would be chosen as a site.
	Phoenix is very conservative, and people here are not open to things.
	It's a very conservative city.
	Yes, it is.
	And there would be a great deal of fear if something like that were to come down here.
	Well, I'm not saying it would come down.
	I'm thinking that it might be brought up.
	In other words, if Phoenix is on a sedimentary flood plain, About 1,000 feet or 2,000 feet above something very interesting that's 300,000 years old and buried deeply by sedimentation below the current city.
	And it is still active.
	In other words, we're talking a technology here that actually could survive several hundred thousand years.
	That's the nature of hyperdimensional physics, Art.
	Well, you know a lot.
	You're not to me, don't you?
	I don't want to put everything on the line tonight.
	Can I have a little self-respect?
	All right.
	Well, listen, ma'am, do us a favor.
	Sure.
	Keep your eyes open in town.
	I will, and you are doing wonderful work.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much, and take care.
	See, if people in Phoenix see a bunch of guys wearing uniforms, carrying equipment, the automatic reaction, because Oklahoma's going to be, oh my God, it could happen again, that's the cover.
	That keeps people away from the really important thing, which is maybe it's just the opposite.
	And you should ask these guys questions.
	And say, what are you looking for?
	And see what they say.
	All right.
	Well, let's see what kind of reports we get.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Boy, I'll tell you, I've been listening, and I just about jumped out of my seat when I heard all this talk about Phoenix.
	You said something about 30 degrees?
	30-30.
	30-30.
	Okay, well, an interesting point I'd like to show you.
	I don't know if this is coincidence or part of your scheme you're looking at, but at 30 degrees, roughly 45 minutes, I guess, is the city of Atlanta, which has in its courtrooms a phoenix rising.
	Basically, the symbol of Atlanta is a phoenix.
	It says, Resurgent, and 1865 underneath.
	Now, you're calling from where?
	Atlanta, Georgia.
	Atlanta, Georgia.
	Yeah.
	Well, Atlantis, why does NASA have a shuttle named Atlantis?
	Yeah, that's what's been going through my mind as well.
	You know, by the way, that Pike, Albert Pike, who was the founder of kind of the American version of masonry, lived for a long time in Little Rock, Arkansas.
	You knew that, right?
	No.
	I'm not aware of that.
	No, I wasn't either.
	And there's a certain president who lived and worked in Little Rock?
	Little Rock, yeah, that's true.
	Who's currently president when all this is going to hit the proverbial fan?
	Well, just knowing the president you're speaking of, he'll figure a way to turn it into a plus.
	Well, it is a plus.
	That's my point.
	It's going to take... Look, we used to have a CBS when I was there.
	We used to say that NASA was the only agency It could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
	You know, you go to the moon and you make it seem boring and trivial and stupid, and no one ever goes back.
	Well, that's a cover, guys.
	It's really extraordinary, and our job, should we choose to accept it, Mr. Phelps, is to make sure they don't do it again this time.
	All right.
	Could Atlanta be some sort of, maybe not Phoenix, but Atlanta, there's some sort of diversion?
	I mean, you were talking about fear.
	Phoenix, the last caller said that she didn't think people in Phoenix would, you know, that they're kind of walking around.
	But in Atlanta, there's already the fear factor from the last three bombs.
	But remember, Atlanta is not part of the celestial cartography, and Phoenix is.
	And we now can prove that going back to the first Apollo.
	All right, thank you.
	So I guess we've got to keep our eyes on Phoenix.
	In fact, let me tell you how close I'm going to keep my eyes on.
	As you know, Art, we are moving.
	We were out... Well, I know it, but they don't.
	Richard is leaving Manhattan area, and he's going to move... In the next two weeks, we are moving all of the Enterprise.
	We are going to headquarter it in the Southwest, close to Phoenix.
	I'm not going to tell everyone exactly where yet, but it's going to be close, because that part of the country, I think, for a whole bunch of reasons, having to do with this, the native Hopi traditions, The extraordinary research facilities concentrated in New Mexico, Los Alamos, which is basically controlling the NASA Discovery mission to the moon, leaving this fall.
	That part of the country is pivotally important for the next phase of our investigation, and so we're going to leave the wilds of Manhattan for the interesting wilds of the southwest.
	Just in time for good weather, by the way.
	I understand it's getting warmer and damper.
	It is.
	Richard, it's kind of unusual this year.
	I'm not sure about Phoenix, but we should be way above 100 degrees by mid-June, and it's bizarre.
	We're in the 80s, and something's different with our weather here.
	We're not getting the violent weather.
	We're just getting totally unusual weather for the desert.
	Well, some night we can talk about hyperdimensional weather.
	That's part of the predictions of the model.
	There are very good reasons in the world for why we're seeing the kind of weirdness that we're seeing.
	It definitely is.
	I mean, there's no question about it.
	We can argue about why, I suppose, the weather is changing.
	But we're either in a very unusual cycle, and man hasn't been around long enough, I guess, to document what cycles mean or how often they occur.
	I have no way of knowing, but the weather is undergoing an obvious change.
	Well, I think that your first statement is very true.
	We have really only been around with instruments and observation and recording devices for a tiny fraction of the geological history of this planet.
	A cosmic blink.
	Yeah, so our database needs to be expanded.
	We don't know what normal is because we haven't experienced normal.
	Alright, let's try one last question.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
	Hi, Art.
	Happy birthday.
	Thank you.
	My name is Gene.
	I'm calling from Las Vegas.
	Yes, sir.
	Real quick.
	Richard, what sticks out most to me while hearing about Phoenix is the Vatican building and Observatory in Arizona.
	Mount Graham.
	Is there any connection in your opinion?
	Of course.
	It's in their library.
	We can get access to it.
	You know, I should have thought of that myself.
	I should have thought of that connection while we're Off wondering about things that are connecting.
	I should have mentioned Mount Graham.
	Well, Richard, we've done it again.
	And you've really done it this time.
	I know I haven't done it forever.
	We're going to be watching Phoenix.
	We're going to be watching the Mars Pathfinder mission over the next several days.
	And I guarantee you, Richard, if the mission is lost and then magically recovered, you're headed for the cover of Time magazine.
	Oh, well.
	We say out here at Enterprise, stay tuned.
	Or maybe the cover of Rolling Stone.
	Who knows?
	Anyway, my friend, it's not goodbye.
	It's until next time.
	What a program.
	Tell everybody goodnight, Richard.
	Goodnight, America, wherever you are.
	Not even that has meaning.
	Goodnight, Richard.
	That's it, folks.

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