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June 11, 1997 - Art Bell

02:54:21

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - ET Agenda - Jim Marrs

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unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I give you good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these many, many time zones.
		From the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains, all the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
		Good morning.
		South into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the good old internet.
		Thanks to AudioNet in Dallas, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Somebody sent me a little email earlier and said, you know, I listened to you here in Hawaii, so I know how you get here.
		But how do you get to Tahiti?
		Well, the answer is simple.
		From Hawaii.
		There's something about saltwater that conducts very well, and I get a constant stream of letters and postcards and email from Tahiti.
		So I include them in.
		A lot of listeners in Tahiti.
		You're in for a real treat this morning.
		Jim Mars, author of a very, very, very popular new book called Alien Agenda, is my guest.
		It's a Harper Collins book, so you will find it everywhere, I suppose.
		I got a piece of email earlier that, actually a fax, that will perhaps explain it.
		Art from ancient astronauts to NASANauts, from the hills to Hopkins, from our very creation to considerations of both religious and metaphysical issues.
		Alien agenda.
		Don't miss even the most minute aspect, does not miss even the most minute aspect of the UFO alien reality.
		My word.
		Interested in crop circles, cattle mutilations, men in black, remote viewing, ancient artifacts, underground bases, abductions, the government, etc., you name it?
		Turn to the chapter.
		It's all there.
		In addition to his outstanding, extensive research effort that includes both acknowledgement and description of the hard work of other courageous explorers and writers in the field, Jim Mars is aware of something he refers to as mindset.
		He never forgets that what makes an objective evaluation of the data from all these areas so difficult is that collection of nerve cells between our ears.
		As an ordinary citizen who's looked into these enigmatic issues for the past two years, has read countless books, watched and listened to countless tapes, downloaded countless documents, and thought countless thoughts in the process, reading this book was a rewarding experience that would require countless words to describe.
		This was the best thing since The Quickening, and in my opinion not only compliments, but is a real companion piece to your own extraordinary and enlightening work.
		I say four cheers for Art and Jim.
		P. Yes, between this book, The Quick and The Quickening, I have tagged so many pages that I expect to get a Christmas card from the Post-Its division of the 3M Company.
		I do like the, quote, these babies are huge, sir, quote, on page 20.
		The speculation about MJ-12 on page 168, very interesting, last sentences of appendices.
		Page 394 relate to discussion of last night, as does other material in the book.
		It's the only composite work of its kind that I've ever seen that mentions Robert Morning's guy.
		So you know this guy has done his work.
		So there you go, and I very much appreciate that.
		And we're going to talk to Jim Mars, author of Alien Agenda, and I suspect this is one night when we are going to get to most aspects of the entire alien question.
		Here's another one coming in beforehand.
		The Alien Agenda, the most fascinating, revealing book that I've ever read.
		I've got it to you.
		Matter of fact, I'll hold up this fact.
		Yes, by the way, we have a webcam going, a webcam.
		So if you get an opportunity to go up on the net, by all means, do so.
		And when you do, just click on the first area that says arts webcams or studio cam or something like that.
		And when you do, you will see a compelling photograph.
		One of three, actually, I guess, of me sitting here doing my program.
		We've got three cameras in sequence monitoring the program.
		And so for as long as you can stand it, you can sit there.
		And from time to time, I hold little things up that relate to the program.
		As a matter of fact, I've got a good picture of Jim Mars right here in my hand.
		I ought to hold that up so that you can see what he looks like.
		We'll talk to Jim about that.
		I'm trying to think of exactly who he looks like.
		Jim Mars looks like somebody that I know from the movies or from someplace.
unidentified		I'm not exactly sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask him about that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in a moment, coming up, Jim Mars and his very substantial book, Investigating the Extraterrestrial Presence Among Us Alien Agenda.
unidentified		Dramatic music
		Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
		But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
		But Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
		For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
		Listen on your way to work and again on the way home.
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		Sign up today at CoastTocoastAM.com.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
		Nobody wants to, obvious.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore.
		Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
		Not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy.
		Because nowadays, you just don't know.
		The new version of the Coast to Coast AM app is here, now available for Android as well as iPhone.
		For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows so you can listen to them at your leisure.
		The new app also has listen live and streaming features, plus recaps, contacts, and upcoming show info.
		Coast Insiders with Android System 4.0 and above or iPhone, check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores or a link from the Coast website.
		Get a new view of the world with Coast to Coast AM.
		First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornutopia.
		Just phenomenal knowledge.
		I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio, and that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
		You know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
		I think we do.
		I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
		And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
		It's going to be bumpy along the way.
		It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
		That's my take.
		And you know what?
		As long as I can continue on the Earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
		Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
		But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
		The Coast Insider is your key to a normal life.
		For 15 cents a day, you can wake up refreshed knowing that last night's show is waiting for you with podcasting.
		As a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Nouri and special guests.
		The Coast Insiders Club is a must-have feature for all Coast to Coast AM listeners.
		Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, now we are going to Texas, all the way down to Texas, and here is Jim Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, welcome to the program.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, good evening.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It's certainly nice to be with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I can hear a Texas accent in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you an original Texan, Jim?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Born and raised in Fort Worth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How in the world did you get started in the whole UFO field?
		It's like you came out of nowhere.
		It's not that I don't know you, Jim, but I had never heard of you before, and all of a sudden you've got this gigantic hit book.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, in fact, I wanted to correct something you said earlier, that, yeah, I've spent the past two years working on my new book, Alien Agenda, but I've been interested in keeping up with the UFO phenomenon since the 50s, since I was a kid.
		The thing that actually prompted me to, well, two things prompted me to write this book.
		One was with the success of my last book, Crossfire, which had to do with the Kennedy assassination and subsequent government cover-up.
		I asked people all over the place, I said, well, what do you think is the next big deep, dark secret government cover-up?
		And, you know, it was almost unanimous, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They said, UFOs.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So I said, well, you know, I've been dealing with that for years, but I didn't feel like I had any right to write about it because I was like everybody else.
		I'd read all this material and there's something going on, but, you know, how do you get a handle on it?
		How do you figure out what is the alien agenda?
		You know, okay, they're here.
		What do they want?
		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And the thing that prompted me and that I felt like I was getting some valid insight in was the government studied and utilized remote viewing.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed about a dozen of the government-trained remote viewers and each and every single one of them had had direct contact, direct knowledge of the UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And I said, wow.
		And so, as with anything else, you have to be careful with this.
		You can't just leap out on a limb and say, oh, it's this and that.
		But by synthesizing and coordinating some of the information that's coming in from the remote viewers, and now, by the way, there's plenty of civilian remote viewers out there.
		In fact, for my book, Alien Agenda, as far as I know, I commissioned the very first formal remote viewing study of UFOs.
		And it was very interesting because seven remote viewers who had had prior testing and had a known track record were employed in this study, and none of them knew what the subject was.
		They simply got a coordinate number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're familiar with that.
		I certainly am.
		And yes, although you might know, Jim, I've interviewed probably the top remote viewers in the field right now.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I know you have.
		I know that you've spoken to Dave Morehouse and many others.
		But here's what's interesting.
		Out of the seven remote viewers, five immediately knew that they were looking at UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know, you know, doesn't that, Jim, then say something about the nature of the aliens?
		That the remote viewers have encountered these beings again and again and again, even dating back to the military program, where the military didn't want them to encounter this kind of thing.
		They were encountering it, according to Ed Dames and others.
		They were encountering beings they just simply could not explain.
		In fact, some of them got so disturbed they got blown out of the program.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And some of their superiors said, I don't want to hear about this.
		It was very disturbing to them, too.
		And again, now we're bumping up against the mindset situation.
		And it's not in the book, Art, but I heard a great story just a week or two ago that, to me, defines mindset.
		It seems that back in the 50s, a plane load of Army officers were flying along, and they encountered a huge glowing orange cylindrical UFO, which circled around their plane, flew alongside for a while, and finally shot straight up and went out of sight.
		And after they landed, one of these Army officers, who happened to be a psychiatrist, was asked, did you see the UFO?
		And his reply was, yes, but I turned my head because I don't believe in those things.
unidentified		Now, that's mindset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's kind of like my wife.
		I'm serious.
		We have seen two, Jim, and she does not want to see those things.
		She doesn't like to talk about them.
		And because of the nature of the material that I deal with, in the last three years, four years, we've seen two.
		And I made her come on the air both times, reluctantly, to back me up.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you, is it because she fears public ridicule or is it because she just fears the implications of the whole thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The latter.
		She's a Catholic.
		She is probably unsure of their origin and agenda.
		And by the way, so am I. Now, so am I. I don't claim to have the hard and fast, 100% sure answers.
		Let's go back to the remote viewers for a second.
		They deal in a kind of a strange realm, remote viewers.
		So does that say that the aliens are in that same realm?
		Or what does it say about the aliens?
		That they're not only sometimes in the same physical realm that we're in?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think you're touching on it there.
		And I think this is one of the things that helps explain the maddening lack of physical evidence is that according to just about all accounts, not only the remote viewers, but the abductees and the contactees and all like that, they operate, we're on this one three-dimensional material plane.
		They seem to operate on other planes and perhaps other times.
		And that's what allows them to kind of slip in and out of our reality.
		And it's something that I think science, particularly quantum physics, could probably come up with some sort of substantiation, some sort of theory as to how that all could happen.
		We're beginning to get into that ourselves in science.
		But right now, it's just a little bit ahead of us, a little bit futuristic for us, and that's what's causing a lot of the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You came into all this as a journalist, skeptical, hopefully impartial.
		And people will ask me this question all the time, so I'll ask you.
		It's on your little sheet here.
		Do you now believe in aliens and UFOs?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I started off skeptical, skeptical, and now I would have to classify myself as a skeptical believer.
		Because here I will say this.
		UFOs, the controversy over the reality of UFOs is over and done with.
unidentified		Okay?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Just forget that.
		They're real.
		They're here.
		They represent materials, objects.
		And this is nothing new.
		This was the official position of the United States government prior to 1947.
		They said, yeah, there's something flying in the air.
		They're real.
		And the thing that proves this, because for a long time, I too paid very serious attention to the idea that perhaps sightings and even abductions were the result of some sort of a mass psychosis, some sort of a hallucination, you know, produced by who God knows what, you know.
		But the thing that lays that to risk is the advent of the camcorder.
		Today, everybody in the dog has a camcorder, and there's not a week goes by that somebody doesn't get some pretty decent tape of the UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So you can't take pictures of a hallucination or a psychosis.
		So, you know, forget that.
		They're real.
		Now we're to the question of, okay, who are they and what do they want?
		And this, I will freely admit, gets into some pretty speculative areas.
		But looking over the past history, looking over the information that is now available, looking into our past, and looking at the overwhelming evidence that points to advanced technology in man's prehistory and such things as that.
		And then, of course, with the remote viewers, I think we can begin to get somewhat of a general picture of the alien agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that ultimate proof of the existence of aliens will come from some sort of physical evidence or some sort of Metaphysical evidence?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think it's going to come from something pretty physical.
		It may be already underway.
		I do not think it's going to come from the government.
		You're not going to have them voluntarily acknowledging what they know because that would be endangering their power and control.
		But what you're going to have is going to be coming from the UFOs themselves.
		And they are going to, at some point, have such an event seen by so many people, recorded by so many people, that it will be beyond discussion and beyond controversy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Undeniable, huh?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, we may already see the beginnings of this in the skies over Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We may.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Thousands of people have seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim, hang tight.
		We'll be right back to you.
		My guest is Jim Mars, author of Alien Agenda, one of the most comprehensive books ever written on why they're doing what they're doing.
		And that's where we're going next.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this Somewhere in Time.
		Music by Ben Thede
		I made things only for the remote daily falling in love with me.
		do Let it be.
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get so stuck on music.
unidentified		It's another piece, you know, I'm so stuck on this right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell, and my guest is Jim Mars.
unidentified		He wrote Alien Agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, whoever they are, what the hell do they want?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to him in a moment.
unidentified		We'll get back to him in a moment.
		The new version of the Coast to Coast AM app is here, now available for Android as well as iPhone.
		For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows so you can listen to them at your leisure.
		The new app also has listen live and streaming features, plus recaps, contacts, and upcoming show info.
		Coast Insiders with Android System 4.0 and above, or iPhone, check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores, or link from the Coast website.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
		Nobody wants terrorism, obvious.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore.
		Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
		Not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy because nowadays, you just don't know.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back down to Jim Mars and Alien Agenda.
		Jim, I agree with you.
		I've seen two of these damn things.
		There is no question about it.
		They're here.
		They are something.
		But people will ask me, do you believe in UFOs?
		Do I believe we are being visited?
		And I say, no, you know, I'm not...
		And I'm not ready to leap yet, but I'm very interested, and I do believe there is something here.
		So my question is, your book title, Alien Agenda, do you think you know what the hell they want?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the problem.
		We're going through a process.
		Back in the 50s, polls showed that virtually nobody believed there was any life outside the Earth.
		Then as we got into the 60s, more and more people began to think, well, you know, I think it may be there.
		And then the question became, do they come from Mars or do they come from Venus?
		Well, now we're a little more progressed now, a little more knowledgeable.
		And now the question is, do they come from the Pleiades or Zeta Reticula V, you know?
		And the thing is, I think we're slowly but surely coming to the truth of the matter, which is the answer is yes, all of the above.
		I think there's an entire universe of life out there.
		This is what the remote viewers indicate.
		And I think that to try to ascribe one motive or one agenda to all of these various species and all of these different varieties of life would be the same as asking a primitive Fiji Islander, what is the agenda of those people passing over your head on those trans-Pacific 747s?
		You know, you can't answer it.
unidentified		You can't answer it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I wrote a book.
		You probably know.
		It's called The Quickening.
		And I am fairly convinced, Jim, that we are really screwing up our planet.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, one possible motivation that I've considered with regard to what they're doing, when you look at animal mutilations, that sort of thing, I think they're monitoring us ecologically, that that is a distinct possibility, that they see that we're headed downhill fast, and these reproductive organ removals and blah, blah, blah, these are things that would allow study of the ecological state of Earth.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think you're absolutely right.
		In fact, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but I point out in my book, Alien Agenda, that an animal geneticist at Texas A ⁇ M discovered that humans share many of their cows are almost a perfect match with chromosomes for the humans.
		That's the closest in the animal kingdom.
		I think it's 23 chromosomes or something like that.
		And it's the closest to humans that you can get.
		Plus, you know what they say, you are what you eat.
		And so many of us are, you know, we're surviving on Big Macs and like that.
		So obviously there'd be a hue and a cry if there were mutilated humans found all over the place.
		But when it's mutilated cows, it's just kind of a sub-controversy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Linda Moulton Howe, who's on my Dreamland program every Sunday, has been a very, very serious investigator into this phenomenon, whatever it is.
		And it is painfully real.
		She's got a couple of books out with photographs that are undeniable.
		People don't like to look at that kind of stuff.
		But the fact is, it's occurring, and it was occurring with precision cutting years ago before we had the ability to precision cut in the way we do now, but not then.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		That's true.
		In fact, that's one of the areas that I began really working hard as a newspaper reporter here in Texas was back in the 70s with the cattle mutilations.
		And I chased that story ever which way.
		In fact, it attended the first and only cattle mutilation conference out in New Mexico where the feds pretty much muzzled everybody and said, no, just sit down, be quiet.
		And everybody kind of did.
		But I talked to ranchers and law enforcement people and conservationists out in the hallways.
		And they had some incredible stories, such as the 30-year veteran rancher who said, they're telling us these are just the work of predators.
		He said, but how can a predator pull a cow's heart out through a half-inch hole in its neck?
unidentified		Wow.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And things like that.
		So, yeah, and I might point out, as you well know, but I'm not sure your listeners realize, cattle mutilations and the crop circles and the abductions, these things are not just some wild story from the past.
		These things are going on right now, today.
		They are still going on.
		And this is my big gripe, my big soapbox, is that where is the so-called news media?
		They are not publicizing what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are so many crop circles.
		Last year I tried to document each crop circle on my website as it came along.
		This year there are so many that I'm leaving it to the websites that specialize in crop circles.
		There are so many.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I can't handle it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't handle it.
		That's right.
		Now, what do you make of crop circles?
		Fractal messages?
unidentified		What?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my book, I cite a remote viewing study of crop circles, and it's pretty interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's some food for thought.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they're messages, but the reason we can't read them is because they're not for us.
		They are transitory messages left as guidepost for UFOs and people traveling through perhaps other dimensions, other times.
		And when they pop into our particular plane of existence and they can see the guidepost that says turn left or keep going or you're okay or stop here, do not enter or whatever, then they know what to do and they move on.
		And then within months, that particular sign is, you know, when the crop dies or is harvested, then it's gone away and there's no danger of a paradox being created.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that an interesting thought?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's one other possibility, and that is that whoever this is is not coming from another place, but another time.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that to be possible?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Art, at this point, knowing what I know and having lived my life, I'm willing to think most anything's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let us go back to the beginning.
		We're coming up in July on the 50th anniversary of Roswell.
		Right.
		Do you think Roswell is the best documented incident we've got?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may not be the best documented.
		I covered it pretty extensively in my book, Alien Agenda.
		I covered the Bentwaters case over in England, which was pretty well documented.
		I mean, here's official reports, tape recordings, et cetera, et cetera.
		But I will say this about Roswell.
		I think Roswell is the most popular focus right now for the whole thing, and I think with very good reason.
		I was kind of amazed to, since Alien Agenda is kind of a broad overview of the whole thing and I was looking at it from that standpoint.
		I'm not going to tell you anything you probably already are aware of, but have you considered placing Roswell in the context of the times?
		In other words, prior to July 1947, the official U.S. government position towards UFOs was pretty open.
		They said there's something up there.
		It's real.
		It's flying around.
		We're not sure what it is.
		We think it may be secret Soviet weapons, you know.
		But if it's not, it's possible that it's a craft from another world.
		And then in July 1947, all of a sudden we have the incident at Roswell, and within two months in September of 1947, President Truman creates our modern national security state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		They create the CIA, they create the National Security Council, and what this does is take anything that they consider national security, and obviously UFOs would be that, and it sweeps it around, puts it under the rug, puts it under a curtain of secrecy, and by doing this, they bypassed Congress, the public, the media, and the whole government position towards UFOs then changed to one of ridicule and dismissal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then that would imply that something real did occur.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Something happened at Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moreover, at that moment, the government decided, uh-huh, we've got something.
		We're going to have to examine it.
		The lid of secrecy comes down, the cloak of secrecy, and it's really been there ever since.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You've got it.
		That's it.
		And it had to be, listen, well, let me give you a quick little story that I discovered while researching for my book, Alien Agenda.
		Back during World War II, the Japanese experimented with what they call Fuego balloons, which were balloon clusters carrying incendiary bombs.
		And they sent them aloft and got them in the upper air currents over the Pacific, and they drifted over.
		And their plan was to hopefully that these things would come down and maybe start big forest fires in the northwest or something.
		One of them actually made it all the way into the Midwest.
		I think it landed in Kansas or Missouri or somewhere.
		But the point of the story is, is that a female reporter at that time found out about this story, thought, what a hell of a story.
		And it was.
		And was getting ready to publish something about it when the FBI went to her and asked her, said, look, this is wartime.
		If you publish this story, the Japanese will know where these balloons are landing.
		They'll have an idea of what's happening.
		You'll be giving aid and comfort to our enemy.
		You know, please don't write this story.
		And of course, as any of us would have done, she didn't print the story.
		She waited until after the war to run her story.
		Now, that's the way that secrecy should be done in a free and open and democratic society.
		But at Roswell, we have the specter of government agents, military people, threatening children and teenagers with their lives.
		Told one woman who was a teenage girl at the time that if she ever talked about what she had heard and saw and knew about what happened at Roswell, that they would find her bones bleaching in the desert.
		Now, what happened at Roswell that made our government people so fearful that they had to threaten children?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's think about that.
		There were a lot of people killed over spying with regard to nuclear technology.
		So if we received a big load of alien technology that we began to go to work on at Roswell, it would have been as big potentially as that because of course our military, particularly then, would have considered it as possible weapons development.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And you just hit on the key factor that I point out in my book, Alien Agenda.
		The swiftest, most direct answer to people who say, why all the secrecy, is simply this.
		All the documentation shows clearly that the one group most closely in authority over the UFO issue is the U.S. military.
		And in the military mind, the UFOs represent advanced technology.
		And in that same military mind, any advanced technology represents potential weaponry.
		So it's got to be secret.
		It's got to be kept close to the chest, and they've got to have total control over it.
		But I think that's another factor, Art, is that I don't think they've ever had total control over this issue, and that's what makes them so fearful, and that's why they have had to have such dreadful secrecy over all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing you said earlier that intrigued me is you think that they are going to suddenly make themselves known.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		In their own time and when it pleases them.
		And frankly, I'm not sure we're ready for it yet.
		In fact, I think one of the best answers I heard that I quoted in the Alien Agenda is one of the abductees asked her captors, said, you know, why don't you just land and say, here we are, and let's be friends?
		And she was told, you are not ready.
		If we landed, half the people would bow down and worship us.
		The other half would try to kill us.
		And I think that's just about as dead-on statement as I can think of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we face a crisis, Jim, environmental or otherwise, do you think they would step in?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, I really don't.
		But I know there's a lot of people out there who kind of are secretly and sometimes not so secretly thinking that our space brothers are going to land and save our bacon here.
		And I'm here to tell you, I don't think that's going to happen, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't either.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And I'll tell you why, because these people are more advanced than us, not only technology-wise, but also sociologically or even perhaps spiritually.
		And they understand that, you know, for a species to evolve correctly and take the normal path that God has provided for them, that you can't step in and interfere with them.
		They have to make their own decisions.
		It's just like children.
		You don't do a child any favor by making all his decisions for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I'm out here in the middle of the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, Jim, I'm right next to Area 51.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Are they packing up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'm suggesting here is in the desert, you know, there are a lot of ecologically protected areas.
		Desert tortoises are particularly protected.
		So if you want to develop on a piece of desert or land out here, and you have desert tortoises, you've got big trouble.
		And I wonder if the aliens don't regard Earth as a fairly hospitable, nice planet, but with seemingly intelligent creatures on it, and until we leave, like the desert tortoises, they're not going to develop.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I think that's a fair analogy.
		I think that may be true.
		And I think that there are some of these species that are interacting with Earth that would kind of like to have a nice place like this.
		But I think that they, mostly out of self-control and out of a sophisticated and mature theology, I think they know better than to try to just come take it from us.
		And this may be a good point to point out here, which I'm sure you're aware of, and hopefully most of your audience, I can say with some assurity right now that I don't think their agenda involves anything that's overtly hostile, simply because if they wanted to come and invade the Earth a la Independence Day, they would have done that back about World War II when all they had to do was face propeller-driven airplanes.
		They wouldn't have waited until now until we've got nuclear weapons and space platforms and laser technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, that presumes that they're not so far ahead of us that they could not push a single button and simply eradicate all life and take the planet.
unidentified		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But the point is, Art, is that, yeah, they may be at that point.
		But if they are, they haven't done it.
		So, you know, we're okay so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So far, so good.
		You mentioned Phoenix.
		Now, in Mexico, the UFO sightings are so common that the Mexican people would kind of go, eh, another UFO.
		I know it sounds crazy, but lean Brit elders who I've interviewed have gone down to Mexico again and again and again.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say it again and again and again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they've got video coming out their ears of these things.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And the big difference is, is down in Mexico, the TV networks actually put the video on the air and they tell everybody this is what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They take it seriously.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Now, what's going on here?
		And I address this in Alien Agenda because, you know, the old stereotype was that the saucer lands and the little guy gets out.
		And what does he say?
		He says, take me to your leader.
		Well, who's our leader?
		Who speaks for Earth?
		We don't really have anybody that speaks for Earth.
		And that's another point, too.
		I don't think anybody, I don't think any extraterrestrial species is going to sit down and try to deal face-to-face with the human race until we have a spokesman, until somebody speaks for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you've got a very good point there.
		I'm sitting here trying to think about that now.
		Who does speak for Earth?
unidentified		Nobody.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But there are people who control the global economy.
unidentified		Okay?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Now, these are the people who have more than just a little bit of pull within national governments, including our own.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Now, these could be the people, I call them the New World Order boys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So maybe they'd land and go into a CFR meeting?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, something like that.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But do these people want to deal with that?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, because they owe their power and their wealth to their monopolies on energy, transportation, medicine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And they don't want anybody.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And now you're to the real hub of the secrecy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold the real hub.
		We're going to take a quick break here at the top of the hour.
		You can relax, and we'll be right back.
		All right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care, Jim.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Jim Mars is my guest.
		His book, Alien Agenda.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Good trip.
		Back in Time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		I'm walking in the boat as you turn around to play.
		Pay my way, go away.
		Pay my way, go away.
		Pay my way, go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pay my way, go away.
		prevents them from dealing honestly with a massive amount of documentation and reports collected over the past five decades still cling to the idea that nothing soars in the skies of earth but man's imagination evidence accumulated over the past half century clearly indicates that ufos represent real intangible objects exhibiting traits unlike anything that man Can yet produce?
		I have seen two of these objects clearly and close up.
		So there is no question.
		Ufos are real.
		What they are and what they want from us, if anything, that's another question, one explored in Alien Agenda.
unidentified		Jim Mars will be back in a moment.
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		First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia just phenomenal knowledge.
		I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
		But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
		I think we do.
		I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
		And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
		It's going to be bumpy along the way.
		It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
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		As long as I can continue on the airwaves and tell people this, I shall.
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		Nobody wants terrorism, obviously.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
		Not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy because nowadays, you just don't know.
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		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Jim Morris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, your book is available in bookstores generally, is it not?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a big book, bigger than mine.
		I think mine's around 339.
		Yours is over 400 pages.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it still left out some things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, somebody just sent me a fax that said, after reading the greatest UFO chapter, you will never look at the moon in the same way.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's from Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does he mean?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		What he means is that we tend to think that the moon's there.
		Everybody sees it.
		You know, it's just there and nobody pays any attention to it because it's just a dead rock.
		But a contrary, that's not true.
		There have been sightings of lights, clouds moving, things moving on the moon that go all the way back into the 15 and 1600s and come right on forward.
		There are some aspects of our moon that are decidedly alien, not to mention the pyramids that appear to be on the moon that are in the same configuration as the pyramids on Earth and the ones in the Sidonia region of Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you make of that, Jim?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think that this was all part of some sort of a system, some sort of a culture, society that was going on long before our ancestors stood upright and started throwing bones in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that it was a previous civilization from Earth?
		Do you lean in that direction?
		Or do you think it was others?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The second chapter of my book, Alien Agenda, deals with the ancient astronaut thing.
		And Art, the evidence for a highly technological society predating man's history is overwhelming.
		Now the question is, is the one that you just asked, could that have been a previous human civilization that somehow just disappeared and We can't seem to find much about it.
		Or did it have something to do with extraterrestrials?
		And my money is on the extraterrestrials.
		And the reason for that is that in every human culture around the world, Asia, Europe, Africa, you name it, there are legends, stories, myths that have come down by word of mouth over the ages that talk about gods from the skies that fly in some sort of machines and fly around and land and then talk to the humans and have discourse with the humans, live with the humans.
		And these, if you were just making up something and you wanted to make up a god, you'd have some great amorphous thing that was, you know, that was totally beyond human comprehension.
		These gods from the skies, they ate, they drank, they changed clothes, they took baths, they slept with women.
		Okay?
		They obviously were not that far removed from ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were messing with our women?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's what the Bible says.
		The Bible talks about the Eliam.
		The Eliam, according to the Bible scholars, were the product, the produce of women and gods from the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we had a landing in Washington or Moscow or the CFR meeting or wherever it would be, if we had a landing, what do you think would happen?
		You know, the Brookings report, I know you know about that.
		Oh, yeah.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll cover that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It suggests that there would be great disruption, that one of the most disrupted groups would be the scientists.
		Very much so.
		You believe that still to be accurate today?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, I really don't.
		I think that when that report was issued, which was back somewhere around 1952, I think there may be some validity to that.
		I think people were not ready.
		I think our sophistication wasn't there.
		Our scientific knowledge wasn't there.
		And like I said, polls showed that the vast majority of people at that time disbelieved that there was any life outside the Earth.
		Today, the polls show the exact opposite.
		Most everybody thinks that, yeah, it stands for reason, it makes sense, that there would be other life out in the universe.
		And then, plus, with all of the conditioning that we've had, particularly, and I like your term the quickening, because I think it is a quickening.
		I think that we have just snowballed along, and now with the X-Files and the dark skies and the men in black and all the things that are going on, you look around, you can't go anywhere without seeing an alien on a T-shirt or something.
		I think we'd be more open to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, think about this, Jim.
		On of all places that travel channel, there was a little factoid yesterday, and they said, did you know that from the moment the Wright brothers took their first flight until the Apollo astronauts first stepped on the moon, there was 66 years.
		Now, that's really something to think about.
		We went from barely getting off the ground to the moon in 66 years.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And if you would go back just to the beginning of that 66 years where they were just, the Wright brothers were just putting a machine up above the surface of the Earth just a little bit and showed them a television, a color television, they would have thought it was magic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Because there wasn't any thought of that.
unidentified		In fact, I hate to date myself, but let me tell you this.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I can remember as a young kid, there was no television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, I don't quite remember that.
		I remember the first round little TV that came in a giant box.
		My dad put an antenna out on the fence, and lo and behold, images appeared.
		So that dates me.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But I'm saying, you know, I still think of myself as a young guy.
		I'm just a little over 50.
		And yet when I was like, you know, 8, 9, 10 years old, there was no television.
		We listened to radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That was it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		I remember radio, too, early days when radio told stories.
		Actually, in a lot of ways, we've come full circle because here we are doing the kind of thing we're doing right now, which is not that far-flung from what was done then on radio.
		Interesting, huh?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It is.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		What goes around comes around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess so.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But yes, and I think that has a lot to do with the perception of aliens, is that, and that's all changed.
		You know, in the 50s they were bug-eyed monsters, and in the 70s, they were E.T., you know, and close encounters.
		And now we're kind of back to, let's attack the world again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think we really know about the pyramids?
		If you had to guess, I'm going in October to Egypt and to Giza, and I hope to get out of there alive for a number of reasons.
		But I want to visit the pyramids.
		There's something very special about the pyramids.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I think the key thing that I would say about the pyramids is that, of course, in popular and conventional thought, they were built by the Egyptians using their slaves.
		And yet, the Egyptians only lived about 3,000 years ago.
		There is water damage on the pyramid, water erosion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And they know it's water because it's vertical instead of horizontal.
		When the wind blows, it's horizontal erosion.
		And so this means that this pyramid was subjected to heavy rains at one point, and there has not been any heavy rains on the Giza Plateau in about 10,000 years.
		So the pyramid obviously predates the Egyptians by about 7,000 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a relationship, you firmly believe, between what's at Giza and what's at Sidonia?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't really know, but it's certainly intriguing because the photographs that we do have of the Sidonia region on Mars indicates pyramids of similar size and configuration as those on the Giza Plateau.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Certainly something to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And that comes back to the fact that that would indicate that there was somebody at some time who might could have traveled from Egypt to Mars.
		And there's other evidence of that though.
		For instance, in my book Alien Agenda, I talk about the Piri Rees maps, which were done in the 1500s based on maps that went all the way back to Alexander the Greek that were based on maps that even went further back than that.
		And these maps that were done by Piri Rees in the 1500s clearly show an accurate outline of the coastline of Antarctica.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could they have possibly known that?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		They could not, because it was only until we had satellites and infrared imaging that we were able to determine the true outline of the coastline of Antarctica because it's under an ice shelf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about the ancient astronauts?
		How much good documentation is there that others were here?
		Aside from mapping, there are a lot of glyphs.
		There are a lot of, there's other proof, isn't there, that they were here or were here.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You've got ancient batteries.
		You've got ancient computers that have been found.
		You've got the undisputed astronomical knowledge of people back in the dim recesses of our early history.
		How could they have known these things?
		How does the tribe in Africa that talks about the two sons of the Sirius system, how could they have known that?
		It took modern telescopes to find out that Sirius was a binary star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had, I had, two NASA spokespeople on recently.
		One of them for the Hubble Space Telescope and the other for NASA space missions.
		And they told some kind of interesting stories, Jim, and then somebody came along and did speech reversal on them and some pretty strange things came out.
		You've got your own take on NASA.
		What do you think?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've talked to too many people who've worked for NASA, and again, it's one of these things where what they say publicly is often not at all what is said privately.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think that NASA, you have to understand, has been an integral, even though we like to think of it as our space program, it nevertheless has been an integral part of our defense program for years and has been under the very stringent control of the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if what you say about the moon is so, NASA's been to the moon.
		So what is it you suspect?
		I mean, I'll just ask you straight out.
		Do you believe that NASA has lied to us about the moon?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think NASA has.
		Yes, I think they have sequestered photographs.
		I know people who have gone down there and tried to get some of these photographs.
		They have millions of them.
		And if you go down there and you just want a picture of the surface of the moon, they'll give you a real nice one all sprayed, you know.
		But if you ask them for the ones that show very odd things, such as tracks moving in odd directions on the moon, suddenly they can't find those.
		Or they give you some blurry shot, you know, that really doesn't show anything.
		Yes, I think there is plenty of evidence to show that NASA has not been very forthcoming with the public.
		In fact, one of the things in researching my book, Alien Agenda, that I found the most compelling as far as evidence of EFO activity around the Earth was the videotape from the Space Shuttle Discovery that was taken in September of 1991.
		And this tape was obtained from NASA, and it clearly shows to just the untrained eye that there are bright objects a very great distance away from the space shuttle that are moving, accelerating, decelerating.
		You are changing course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're referring, I believe, to STS-48.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		STS-48, absolutely.
		And of course, NASA comes back and says, oh, well, these are just ice crystals from a water dump, you know, and they're floating beside the shuttle.
		But the problem is, if you watch the entire four-minute section of the tape, the camera pans downward to the shuttle, and then the camera comes into focus into the shuttle bay, which means it's focusing close up, which means when it was showing these objects, it was focused at infinity.
		And you're not going to see ice crystals floating near the shuttle when our camera's focused at infinity.
		So here, again, we have NASA officials that are dissembling right before our eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something, Jim.
		I'm good friends with, I'm sure you know, Richard Hoagland.
		Oh, yeah.
		Richard came to see me a couple of weeks ago.
		When he came, he brought with him the STS-80 video.
		Nobody's really seen it yet, and I can only talk about it in a very limited way, but I can tell you this.
		The STS-80 video makes the STS-48 video look like a child's sandbox.
		I'm serious.
		What's depicted in 48 is very interesting, very controversial.
		What is depicted in STS-80 is not only controversial, it's incontrovertible.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so they're doing work on that right now, and Richard's going to be on the air with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you're writing another book, which I suppose you're going to have to, it'll be a full chapter, believe me.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		This is the kind of thing, but let me express for you, this may be a good point to express my concern.
		Here's my concern.
		Right now, the government is just acting like it's not happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on a moment, Jim.
		It's a good hook point.
		Your concern is where we will come to when we come back.
		It's the bottom of the hour.
		Relax.
		Jim Mars is my guest.
unidentified		His book is Alien Agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Thank you.
		Looking out for fate to go Where they play the white music Getting in the spring You come to love the fame You are listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Jim Mars.
		He's author of a brand new book, a comprehensive look at all that we believe is out there called Alien Agenda.
		He'll be right back.
unidentified		Groan
		Eric.
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		Get a new view of the world with Coast2Coast AM.
		First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
		Just phenomenal knowledge.
		I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
		You know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
		I think we do.
		I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
		And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
		It's going to be bumpy along the way.
		It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
		That's my take.
		And you know what?
		As long as I can continue on the airwaves and tell people this, I shall.
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Jim Mars.
		And Jim, you were talking about your concerns.
		Concerns.
		What concerns do you have?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that right now we see the government, you know, in a deep state of denial, and they're saying nothing's going on.
		I think what's going to happen pretty quickly, and from what I hear from you, I think you would agree with this, that there's going to be some sort of event that will be undeniable.
		And too many people will see it, too much news coverage, something's going to happen that they can't deny.
		And at that point, this is where my concern comes in.
		I think that they have probably already set up the mechanism and have already had the contingency plans drawn up.
		And at that point, it's going to be, well, yes, your government is looking into this situation.
		And then during this crisis, you'll have to just give up all your civil liberties so we can protect you from these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder how people are going to react if there were an undeniable, unambiguous presence suddenly, and the government admitted to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If an event of that magnitude occurred, the churches, the people who go to work every day, the government itself, the scientists, every institution, what would begin to happen on Earth, do you think?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		There would be a lot of fear.
		And when people get fearful, they do crazy things.
		They will give up their thinking.
		They will give up their rights.
		They will just, you know, say, please protect me, somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Well, that might be the goal of government anyway.
		So there are a number of people who say, whether UFOs are real or not, there may come a time when the government would, if necessary, stage an event for the very purpose that you just named.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Certainly has happened before.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The Nazis themselves burned down the Reichstag, their Congress, and then blamed it on the Communists and then set off a whole nationwide palm gromm against all kinds of people, the Jews and the communists and everybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've certainly seen it in foreign affairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vietnam is another good example.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the Gulf of Tunkin.
		We wanted something to happen.
		We made it happen.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing.
		You know, I'm a Vietnam-era guy.
		In fact, I was in the Army during Vietnam.
		I didn't go overseas, but I had hoped that we would have learned something from that.
		Because going into Vietnam, we were pretty naive and we pretty well believed what we were told and we believed, you know.
		But coming out of Vietnam, I thought we had wised up some.
		But then you see the Gulf War, okay?
		And here's a guy who had been a two-bit tinhorn dictator, but he was our two-bit tin horn dictator.
		And then all of a sudden, he defaults on his international bank loans and becomes the new Hitler.
		And people, you know, and to me, it was a very blatant, it was an economic situation.
		Saddam Hussein goes to our ambassador, April Glasby, and says, what are you all going to do if I invade Kuwait?
		And he was told, well, that's an Arab question.
		We don't have any particular thought on that.
		What does that sound like?
		It sounds like, do what you want to do.
		And yet when he does it, all of a sudden, President Bush is drawing a line in the sand.
		And I was absolutely astounded.
		I look around here and I see all the people I live around and my neighbors and friends and everybody.
		And everybody's tying yellow ribbon, and they're just, they're falling for it.
		And then, of course, we defeat the third largest military force in the world in a matter of, you know, weeks.
		And then as we're about to close it all down and claim the final victory, I don't know, I guess he picked up the telephone, told those international bankers he'd start paying his interest.
		And it all stopped, right?
		He's still there.
		So, you know, what's that all about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're probably going to have to go back and do it all over again.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Probably so.
		And now, are we all just going to fall in line again and put up our yellow ribbons and say yay for our side and just follow along like the little sheep that I guess we are?
		I don't know.
		But it bothers me because if something of the magnitude of extraterrestrial visitation comes about, there is going to be a lot of fear going on and we will be ripe to be whipsawed around by anybody that wants to claim authority.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What is your take on abductions?
		A lot of people like John Mack and others have felt that abductions are the proper course to follow in trying to figure out what's going on here.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think that I might concur with that.
		I think abductions are that you know they've only kind of cropped up in recent years.
		I guess maybe Betty Barney Hill was the first big one that was publicized, and that occurred about 1965.
		I think what's going on here is that these visitors are bypassing the official government representatives because I think they may have tried to deal with them and it was all swept under secrecy and plus maybe deals weren't honored, you know, as the Native American Indians.
		They'll tell you about deals with the central government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, look, if they treated the aliens, our government, that is, the way they've treated us, then I think you're exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would have dealt with them for a while and then, much like I have, thrown up their hands and said these people are irrelevant.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Forget them.
		And so I think they're coming straight to the people.
		Now, you mentioned the abductions.
		Let me blow you away a little bit here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be my guess.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		We're all aware of the abductions because the people who've had these have had basically apparently negative and traumatic experiences.
		Therefore, they turn to professional help.
		They go on the talk shows.
		They go public.
		They say, what has happened to me?
		And that's what we know about abductions.
		And that's the kind of people that Dr. Mack and Bud Hopkins and others are dealing with.
		What I discovered in researching my book, Alien Agenda, is that there's a whole lot of folks out there who say, well, I've had an experience like that, but I thought it was kind of neat.
		And I agreed to go along.
		In fact, I've agreed to work with them.
		And I wasn't traumatized.
		And as a result, they don't seek professional help.
		They don't seek the public ridicule by going public with their story.
		And if my reading on all that's correct, then this abduction or contact type situation is much more widespread than even we believed, you know, at first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to figure it this way.
		A lot of people fearing ridicule would not come forward.
		Probably the majority of them would not come forward.
		Right.
		Now, with abductions, there has been a certain amount of physical evidence.
		Scoop marks on the skin and implants.
		And I think I noticed about the only photographs you had in your book appeared to be of, is it of an implant?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe I have a picture of an implant.
		No.
		But there are people who say that these things exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a puzzling fragment, not an implant.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's not an implant.
		No, that was a fragment from the 1897 Aurora spaceship crash.
		Dr. M predates all our modern spaces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Mack removed or had removed an implant which I've had on my website for probably a better part of a year now.
		And we've got electron microscope photographs of this implant.
		And it looks very much like something biological itself.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that seems to be one of the arguments.
		You know, the debunkers come up and say, well, you haven't shown me anything that's demonstrably from another galaxy.
		Some of this stuff's kind of organic.
		But then think about it.
		The more advanced we get, the more organic we're trying to make things.
		They're making hearts and kidney transplants, things like this.
		They're trying to get as organic as they can to overcome the rejection problem.
		So just because you find something that's organic doesn't necessarily mean that it's homegrown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've got a picture here of what appears to be a mothership.
		Jim Covell, is it?
		Right.
		Tell me about this photograph.
		It's a pretty intriguing photograph, I must say, and I'll hold it up for those who are watching on the web.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll be the first to tell you that this is not an Independence Day craft.
		This, in all probability, is a temperature inversion.
		But I published that because this Jim Cuffel brought that to me, showed me to me, and it was such an intriguing-looking photograph.
		He took that in the skies near Antioch, Illinois on November the 10th, 1996.
		And it was just an intriguing photograph, but I wanted to include that to show what kind of things are up there that we don't often see and could mistake for a UFO, because I'm sure you'll agree with me.
		Undoubtedly, there are some hoaxes and there are some misinterpretations of natural phenomena.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's why I like, for instance, I live out here about 80 miles northwest of the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'm out inside of a semi-rural area, and I've got some incredible skies out here.
		I also happen to be right near the northwest corner of what they call the box, which is where the airlines gather to be vectored into the DFW airport.
		And so I'm used to seeing all these little lights and things twinkling and things moving in the night sky.
		But I'm the last one that's going to point to one of those and say that must be a UFO, because lights moving in the sky has never impressed me that much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same here.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And you remember some of the early photographs where you got like a little fuzzy blur, you know, in a blob.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I always took that with an open mind, but that could be anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have a website up, do you?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, I am thinking seriously about getting into all that, but my big problem is I live so far out from the city that up until recently I couldn't get to a service provider except long distance, and that would have run my phone bill up unacceptable height.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can get somebody who's good and they can put together a good website for you.
		Believe me, it can be done.
		All right.
		Underground.
		Now, I've interviewed a number of people about underground bases and tunnels and all sorts of things.
		What do you believe exists underground?
		What investigation have you done in that area?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That's intriguing.
		There is absolutely no question that beginning in the 50s and through the 60s and 70s that the government participated in an extraordinary amount of underground construction.
		They have things that, you know, facilities that some people aren't even aware of.
		Plus, there are large corporations that have built huge underground facilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's really interesting.
		I really think that what happened here was back in the 50s, their big fear was a nuclear war and nuclear fallout.
		You know, you probably were, you're about my age.
		You remember in school when you go out and put the newspaper over your head, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Duck and cover, underground.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, duck and cover.
		And well, these folks decided that, you know, they really wanted to be safe, so they built these huge underground things.
		But I think that it's evolved now, and I think that they're to the point now where they realize that being underground in a shelter might not necessarily save you from earth changes, from earthquakes, from volcanoes, from things that have been going on right here, you know, in our own country over the last couple of decades.
		And so I think it's entirely possible that there are, again, a facet of this secrecy is to keep sophisticated and futuristic spaceflight a secret.
		In other words, we get to watch the space shuttle and we get to watch the Soviet and the American astronauts up there cavorting around, but while that's holding our attention, they're using perhaps some very exotic technology to just lift off and fly on off to the moon or Mars or somewhere else.
		That's a very real possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that our present government, our current president, for example, Bill Clinton, knows of this duality, these parallel and very different space programs?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I doubt it.
		I don't think he has a need to know.
		This secrecy was instituted years ago.
		In fact, just the other day I was talking to a fellow who had spoken, as I have too, with former Senator Barry Goldwater.
		And Goldwater, who was a ranking military officer as well as a powerful member of Congress, said that he couldn't get to any of this stuff, that it was classified much higher than he could get to, and basically kind of supported that idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got Goldwater on tape, thanks to a friend of mine at KCMO in Kansas City.
		I've got Barry Goldwater on tape talking about a time that he addressed General Curtis LeMay and asked him about this specifically.
		And Curtis LeMay literally cussed him out and told him, don't you ever, ever ask about that again.
		That was Barry Goldwater.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And there's a ranking member of Congress.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Now, if a ranking member of Congress can't find out what's really going on, you know, why do people make fun of the average citizen when they complain that they can't find out what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another interesting story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One other president, Jimmy Carter, of course, promised when he was running that he would tell the American people whatever he would find out if he became president.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did, and he didn't.
		That's right.
		And, of course, Jimmy Carter has been one of our better ex-presidents.
		And he was at a book signing recently, which one of my listeners went to.
		And the listener really described it well.
		So Jimmy Carter was sitting there.
		You know how you do.
		You've been to book signings, just quickly signing a book, hardly looking up at the person, handing them the book, going as fast as he could.
		This fellow went out of his way to capture Carter's attention, you know, eye contact.
		And he said, President Carter, you promised to tell all you knew about UFOs and then didn't do it.
		Why?
		And Carter just sat there and looked at this fellow, and tears formed in the corner of his eyes.
		It's quite a story.
		And so it may be that some presidents have known some things, but what can you imagine, Jim, that could be so dramatic that they could be told that would stop them from fulfilling a campaign promise or telling us what they wanted to tell us what could be so profound mindset and let me explain what I'm talking about pretty quickly here I you may or may not be aware of
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		this, I'm sure you will pretty quickly.
		There's a book coming out by a fellow named Philip Carso.
		And Carso has impeccable military credentials, very high ranking.
		In fact, was within intelligence connected to the Eisenhower White House.
		And this book is going to really be a bombshell because he claims that he actually held the Roswell debris in his hand and actually saw the bodies and that it was a flying saucer and that it was bodies.
		Okay?
		And he's going to support the whole thing, the whole story that we've all already heard.
		But, along with that, I have heard from a friend of mine that has spoken with him that he says that the secrecy surrounding all this was necessary because these folks are evil and hostile.
		And I'm going, you know, how's that?
		And I said, what?
		What did he say that supports his idea that these people are evil and hostile?
		And the fellow who had spoken with him said, well, he said that they came and hovered over our military installations and our nuclear installations.
		And when we told them to halt, they wouldn't halt.
		And, you know, we fired at them and they went away.
		and then, but then they came back and they just, they just, we couldn't control them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were there.
		I'm fond of saying the conclusion of Blue Book was whatever these are, they are not a threat to national security.
		Well, when they hover over ICBM sites, shut down ICBMs, hover over Russian ICBM sites, and start launch sequences.
unidentified		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And change the launch codes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So if these things do not represent threats to national security, I want a good definition of national security.
		Jim, hold on.
		We'll get back to you.
		And when we come back, we're going to go to the phones.
		Jim Mars is my guest.
		Alien Agenda is his book.
		By the way, coming up in this break, if you're seeing the studio webcam, I'm going to entice my wife in so you'll see her for a moment.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I had planned I had to sit on a chair Of what I am It's all clear to me now Oh
		heart is on fire like a wheel that turns pleasure in the night I want to love you, feel you feel you, I just can't get enough and if you will go, I'll let it go.
		I'm so excited and I'm just can't hide it.
		I'm about to move and throw and I think I like it.
		I'm so excited and I'm just can't hide it.
		And I know, I know, I know, I know, I know I want you.
		We couldn't even think about tomorrow But you know we will last a long long time We'll have a good time, baby, don't you worry And we'll win now we take you back to the past on Arch Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim Mars is my guest.
		He's got one of the most popular books in the country right now.
		It's called Alien Agenda and we're going to go to the phone shortly.
		So across the entire spectrum of the whole alien thing, if you have questions, he's your guy.
		He's, as a journalist, just about investigated every area.
		It's absolutely incredible.
		It's quite a book.
		You've got to read it.
		We'll get to Jim again in a moment.
unidentified		Jim.
		The new version of the Coast to Coast AM app is here, now available for Android as well as iPhone.
		For Coast Insiders, it offers the ability to download the most recent shows so you can listen to them at your leisure.
		The new app also has listen live and streaming features, plus recaps, contacts, and upcoming show info.
		Coast Insiders with Android System 4.0 and above or iPhone, check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores or link from the Coast website.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
		Nobody wants terrorism, obvious.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
		Not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy because nowadays, you just don't know.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Jim, you mentioned the Corso book coming out, right?
		There's a big controversy going on with that right now with Senator Thurman.
		I'm sure you know about that.
		He wrote the forward to the book, and in a statement, Thurman said that he agreed to provide the foreword on the understanding the book was autobiographical and that now he regrets that it appears to bolster claims of a government conspiracy and cover-up.
		Quote, I know of no such cover-up, the senator said, and do not believe that one existed, end quote.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		He may very well not.
		We were talking previously about Senator Barry Gallwater.
		Now, Gallwater knows that something's being covered up because when he tried to ask about it, he was cussed out.
		But if he had not asked about it, he wouldn't have known, and he could have probably said legitimately that he knew of no cover-up.
		You know, everybody up in Washington is not in on this.
		Everybody in the military is not in on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not in on it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I'm not either.
		I'm on the outside looking in.
		But there's been enough evidence that's popped up over the last 50 years that I think any reasonable person would have to say there's something going on.
		In fact, this is why I think my book Aviating Agenda may be just the ticket for people who have seen UFOs or who know people who've had an experience and that really know and believe that there's something going on.
		And the biggest problem they have is with their friends and relatives and neighbors who say, oh, you don't believe that old UFO stuff, do you?
unidentified		You know?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the book to give to those people and let them read it cover to cover and then have them look you in the eye and tell you there's nothing going on.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I just don't think that you could do that if you were any kind of reasonable person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me warn you what we're about to do.
		We're going to go to the phones.
		I don't screen calls, Jim.
		I have no idea what's coming up.
		So you're facing the general raw public.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Bring them on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, bring them on.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Dan in Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		It's nice to hear a fellow Texan on the line, even though I'm living in Virginia.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You can take the Texan out of Texas, but not the other way around.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		I have a couple questions.
		One, have you had any personal experiences yourself?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Not as far as I know.
		I give one brief little mention in the introduction to my book.
		When I was a young kid, I had an experience of seeing a real bright light that I thought was the landing light of an aircraft, but there was no sound.
		And I thought at the time it was a little odd, and I still think it's a little odd, but I'm not going to try to say what that was.
		And so as far as I know, no, I have not really had any personal experiences.
unidentified		Okay, next thing is, have you tried to find a correlation between some of the prophecies, you know, the Hopi Indians, you know, the Bible?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The Mayans?
unidentified		The Mayans and so forth?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is a surprising amount of consistency in some of those stories and legends and prophecies.
		And I think it's probably like any other endeavor of man.
		I don't think you can grab one and say that this is the definitive answer.
		But when you study all of them, there seems to be kind of a general outline of what goes on.
		And it's pretty interesting.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		You know, this knowledge had to come from sometime in the past and some connection.
		You know, the sciences they had.
		You know, these are natives running around, supposedly, you know, with no mathematics and so forth, but yet they had the star systems mapped out even before we were able to find them.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And in all these ancient cultures, you know, when you ask the question, well, where did they learn all this?
		Almost without exception, they say, well, the gods from the sky came down and gave us this information.
unidentified		What about the one down around Austin?
		And then I think they saw it in Dallas, oh, probably about three or four weeks ago.
		Had you talked to anybody?
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
		Thank you, caller.
		Yeah, something that apparently went from Austin toward Dallas.
		I had a lot of reports about that.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And listen, I think that's one of the things that your show is really doing a bang up good public service on art is because here's what really bothers me, especially coming from the media as I do.
		Just since the first of this year, 1997, we're not talking ancient history.
		We're talking about right now.
		There have been some major UFO sightings in the Boston area, in the Atlanta area, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
		And of course, now it is mentioned above Phoenix.
		And yet, where's the national media?
		See, it's almost as if there's a news blackout on all of this.
		Now, the local media will talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something, Jim.
		I had a Phoenix City Council member on the air, very brave lady, who dared go in front of the council and say, shouldn't we investigate this monstrous thing that appeared above our city, almost like ID4?
		I mean, it was just monstrous.
		And they came down on her like a ton of bricks.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's the mindset at work reinforced by the government's secrecy.
		And I think it's just horrendous.
		Now, the government is going to do what it does, you know.
		And if people, other politicians, local officials choose to follow them, that's all right, too.
		But again, my thing is, where's the news media?
		The news media wraps itself in the First Amendment, tells us it's the watchdog for the public.
		So where are they?
		And I'll tell you what the problem is.
		It's not in censorship or suppression of the individual editors and reporters out here across the country.
		Obviously, that doesn't happen.
		But here is the key to the control of the media is in the control of the distribution of the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I watched carefully, I've been involved in a couple of large national stories lately, Jim, and it is my absolute observation that God helped the person who tries to get in the way of the way the American media has decided it wants to tell a story.
		What occurred at Rancho Santa Fe was an exquisite example of that.
		They determined in the beginning how they were going to tell it, and by God, don't let any facts get in the way of that.
		I was astounded.
		I mean, you know, I come, you and I are about the same age.
		You might be a little older than I am.
		But I come from an era when, you know, when the FBI would come up to the podium and they'd say something, it was like gold, you know, gospel.
		That's right, it was gospel.
		What the president said, what the various agencies said, even the alphabet agencies, it was like gospel.
		Today, it's totally the other way around.
		When they come and say something about an investigation they're doing, you should almost assume the exact opposite.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very sad, very dangerous.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I think it's very reprehensible.
		And yet, that's what goes on.
		And whose fault is it?
		Is it the public that has suddenly just overnight become jaded and cynical?
		Or is it the officials within government who have been caught lying to us year after year after year?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Too many times.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Too many times.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think I mentioned in my book, Alien Agenda, if the federal government of the United States was an individual, none of us would have anything to do with him.
unidentified		Because he's a proven liar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I used to be very, very involved in politics.
		That's how I began in talk radio.
		And that was, in my opinion, in a day when politics was relevant.
		But I look now at what they're doing and arguing about back and forth in Washington.
		And frankly, I don't see the relevance for the American people any longer.
		The arguments seem orchestrated and irrelevant.
		And so I've kind of given up on it until something comes along that is relevant.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Morris.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Pat in Phoenix.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Thank you.
		First time caller.
		I'm real excited.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the spangs in the sky above your city?
unidentified		Wonderful source of frustration.
		I believe in them wholeheartedly.
		I'm looking up all the time, and I have not seen one yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see coverage on local Phoenix television of the objects?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
		There was very little.
		And even the talk among people and friends are, well, it was the Air Force.
		It was just all kinds of excuses.
		There was nothing ever validating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe flares was the first explanation.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Military flares.
unidentified		Right.
		My reason for calling was, well, going to the Roswell incident and a sense of is it not possible, even probable, that our government had the encounter, they had the people, alien, had the information that we are not ready to know what they're doing.
		And I hate to give our government any credit, but possible that they have kept a secret for that reason.
		And I've had a lot of anger over them not publicizing, not telling us the truth, but yet they know they cannot tell.
		And that's the secrecy and why it's gone to the extreme that it has.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's a good part of it, because in my years as a journalist and a newspaper reporter, the higher you get in government bureaucracy, the more you run into this attitude of, I know what's best for the poor old masses.
		You know, they're just too dumb to figure out anything for themselves.
		And that is a very prevalent attitude.
		And as I say, the higher you go, the harder it gets.
unidentified		And I think there's a lot of that to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're absolutely correct.
		And a lot of people say the only way to do anything about that is to throw them all out all the time.
		But that isn't going to happen.
		Incumbents are returned 90 plus percent of the time, every single time.
		So I'm sort of at a point where I don't know what to do about it, what to do about the government, how to make them come clean.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I think what they're going to do is just eventually evolve themselves out of a job.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Because look at the last election, what, 25% of the voters even bothered to vote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You know, and so what's going to happen is I think eventually our life and our culture will kind of evolve and move on along and they're going to be back there screaming, hey, wait for us, we're your leaders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, do you think time travel is possible?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do, but at this point, I don't much think that it's possible in a physical sense.
		I don't think we're going to be able to take human beings and hardware and guns and food and all this stuff and transport it back in time.
		Where I can see, in fact, from personal experience, I know because I've done some remote viewing on my own.
		And I think that through the technology of remote viewing, I think that that is maybe our best, most immediate means of time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the classic question was always, if time travel is possible, where are all the time travelers?
		And I had an interesting character on the show, a show I'll never forget, Terrence McKenna.
		And I asked him that.
		And he said, well, they'll be here as soon as time travel is invented.
		It's an interesting concept.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's a conundrum, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Morris.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Salem, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Salem, Oregon.
		Okay.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		I had a question for Jim, two actually related questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
unidentified		Okay.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Kick us off.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear him, too, so.
unidentified		Okay, how's this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Better.
unidentified		Okay.
		I'm actually up late here studying for an astronomy final that I have tomorrow morning.
		And my questions are, if the government is keeping this such a secret, why are they doing it?
		And the second question is, I'm finding in my textbook projects that are funded by NASA and by universities, which are funded by the government.
		Right.
		And their projects to search for extraterrestrial life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, the first question, why keep it a secret?
		I think that there's plenty of good reason for Roswell, for example, to have been kept secret.
		And then secrets have a way of maintaining themselves.
		And I think that might account for why it is still a secret today.
		That's just my guess.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		They sort of, you know, it's like a lie once you begin telling it you've got to keep telling it or you've got to explain how come you told it in the first place that's right if they come out now and try to say yes something very unusual did fall near roswell then they got the next question is well why have you lied to us for 50 years but i again let me say the most straightforward answer to that question about secrecy is that there's no question because the documents clear clearly show that the group in charge of all this is the u.s military and the military would view ufos
		and spacecraft and all like that as advanced technology.
		And any advanced technology would therefore be considered potential weaponry.
		And therefore, they've got to keep it secret because they've been doing that for the last 50 or 100 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, they say the Cold War is over.
		I have great reservations about that.
		Spying is still going on.
		Submarines are still capable of launching against us.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, also consider this.
		At the height of the Cold War, the Soviet people, the people over in Russia, they only had to really worry about one intelligence outfit, and that was the KGB, okay?
		Today, in the United States of America, it claims to be free and democratic.
		With no war going on and not even a Cold War, there are more than 22 secret intelligence agencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		22.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And some of them are so deep and dark that, you know, even the guy in the desk next to them doesn't know what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not even real possible to follow the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they say follow the money, but the money is so black, so dark.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You can't follow it.
		In my book, Alien Agenda, I point out that just last year, the GAO reported that the NRO, which is the National Reconnaissance Office, one of these secret intelligence outfits, lost $12 billion.
		They just lost it.
		We don't know where it went.
		And the New York Times, in reporting this, says that's due to the intense secrecy.
		That it's like safe within safe.
		And, you know, different offices use different accounting principles, and they just didn't know where the money went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, how would you like to be the poor slob who had to go before some sort of senatorial or congressional committee and say, explain how you lost, lost, keyword, $12 billion.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Gee, will I add it when I came in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was there one morning, and then it was gone tonight.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Morris.
		Hi.
unidentified		Art, this is Vince from Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Vince.
unidentified		Mr. Mars, I was wondering if you are related at all to another author from Austin, Texas, by the name of...
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Tex Mars.
unidentified		Tex Mars, exactly.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm very familiar with Tex Mars, but as far as I know, there's no relationship there.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Although every other Mars I ever ran into, if I talk with them long enough, we generally kind of start coming back to kind of common ground.
unidentified		You know, because he's written some books about the National Security Agency and Project Lucid and some of these...
unidentified		He has this theory about...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know who Tex Mars is, and I'm sure Jim does, too.
unidentified		The New World Order, and he talks about an alien plot.
		As far as the New World Order, it kind of works in with the alien plot.
		Art, I really think you should talk to that guy.
		Get him on your program, Tex Mars, sometime.
		He might offer a different perspective on an alien thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know pretty much the Tex Mars agenda.
		Let me put it that way.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with not Tex, but Jim Mars.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Canada?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Jim, that's a hell of a good name for a book.
		Alien Agenda.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is a good name.
unidentified		If this big gray area turns out to be true, if all this is going to be some type of reality, I'm sure that they do have an agenda of some sort.
		Absolutely.
		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's interesting.
		You titled the book, Jim, Alien Agenda, but do you really form conclusions in the book?
		In fact, that's a question for after the break, about what their agenda is.
		Very important question, and it's one we'll pick up on right after the break.
unidentified		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
		Peace out.
		Outro Music
		Outro Music When it's alright, it's over and home.
		We gotta get right back without it for your food and hope.
		We gotta get it right back without it for the day in Sony when you first came my way.
		I said no one could take your place.
		Get heard.
		Premier Network presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring coast to coast A.M. from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Jim Mars.
		His book is Alien Agenda and that's exactly what we're going to ask him about in a moment.
		What their agenda is, whether he comes to any conclusion in the book about their agenda.
		It's an important non-trivial question.
		By the way, during the last break, my wife was in here.
		We've got the studio cam going, and I got the following message from Hawaii.
		Aloha, Art.
		Your wife was adorable in those sequences.
		You're one lucky Halley guy.
		Kevin and Sharon in Honolulu, which is, of course, where my wife was born.
		Eva Beach, actually.
		And yes, you're quite correct.
		I am certainly lucky.
unidentified		I am certainly lucky.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on CoastToCoast AM.
		Nobody wants terrorism, obvious.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore.
		Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls.
		Not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy because nowadays, you just don't know.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Jim Morris, and we are going to increasingly concentrate on the phones here.
		So don't despair.
		A lot of you are trying to get through.
		Hang in there.
		Jim, your book is called Alien Agenda.
		Do you reach a conclusion in the book about what the agenda is?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, we reached several conclusions.
		Number one, as we started off talking about, UFOs represent real, material, tangible objects.
		And although there are probably some hoaxes, some misinterpretation, and there's probably some government secret technology testing that could approximate some of them, there is nevertheless an obvious technology involved here that is beyond what we humans have at this point.
		So that indicates that they're from somewhere else.
		Now when we get into where they come from somewhere else, you get into a whole little morass of theories and conjecture.
		But again, going back to the government-trained and experienced remote viewers, they say, and this seems to be echoed by a lot of the New Age philosophy, a lot of the abductees, the contactees, they say there's a whole universe of life out there, okay, and that there are many different species, probably thousands of them, of intelligence.
		In fact, so much intelligence that most of them don't even bother coming here.
		But there does seem to be perhaps as many as two dozen, or maybe even more, of various ET species that are having some sort of interaction with Earth.
		But again, you can't, they come from different places and they have different agendas.
		And some of them are probably more benign than others.
		Some of them may be here just on a scientific mission just to check it out.
		Some may be wanting to just gather up a few specimens to go take back and put in a zoo or something.
		Who knows?
		But it should be obvious, though, to anybody that's thinking that none of this bunch seems to be overtly hostile because of the sheer fact that nobody's tried to attack the Earth so far.
		And it also makes sense to understand that if they are as advanced technologically as they seem to be, then they would be probably more advanced than us sociologically.
		And they understand that it's simply not right to interfere with the natural evolution of a species.
		And that's why there probably is something in effect tantamount to what they call in Star Trek the prime directive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not to interfere.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Not to interfere.
		It's just not right to interfere with the natural evolution of a species.
		However, I think what's going on here, though, is that they're being pressed on this issue because it would be one thing to just sit back and observe us and watch us do our thing and watch until we get to a point to where we finally evolve to where we can meet with them on a technical level and on a social level.
		But here's the clicker.
		As you mentioned early in the program, we are in the process of basically destroying our world.
		You know, the ozone, the pollution, the rainforest, you name it.
		The worlds and the oceans are dying.
		The Mediterranean's practically already dead.
		we've got some real problems here.
		And so I think they're being pressed to try to push us on up this evolutionary ladder a little bit quicker in an effort to try to...
		But I think they're trying to, through various things by letting us by these sightings by these abductions by all these stories that are all flowing around the periphery of our day-to-day consciousness they are impinging themselves into our reality and trying to get us to come get up to speed on our on our evolutionary progress so that we will make the decisions necessary to save ourselves and save our planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if that's what they're doing, then one would conclude as conditions worsen, they will make their presence more and more known.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there will be more sightings, more abductions.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I would think so, and doesn't that seem to be exactly what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		It sure does.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Hi.
		Hi, Art Bell.
		Yes, sir.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
unidentified		My name's Mike, and I'm calling from Maui.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maui, Hawaii, okay.
unidentified		Yeah, where you used to work, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I'd like to ask Mr. Mars a question.
		Mr. Mars, it's a pleasure to hear you this evening.
		I would like to know exactly the title of your book being Alien Agenda.
		It sounds to me like giving, without much knowledge, a lot of credit to the fact that an advanced PC that can travel this far would be harmless.
		It seems to me that if a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What he said was that they have not yet harmed us in an overt way.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure, see, again, you have to understand we're talking about different species, and all of them have their own agendas, okay?
		And some of them may not be as benevolent as others.
		But there seems to be no signs and no clear evidence that any of them are overtly hostile.
unidentified		I can understand that theory, Mr. Mars, but you know, my point is what I want to get across, and I want to get your opinion on this, if I can express it properly, is that to get a species to, regardless of what type of species,
		what type of galaxy or planetary system they come from, or whatever their elements may be chemically or biologically, whatever, it would seem to me that beyond any kind of monetary social evolution, they've been through the value system of inventing and creating and getting through the however many years it takes for them to evolve into space travel,
		it would seem to me that it would be beyond the need for, say, plucking natural resources from a distant galaxy or destroying life of other forms just to see them squirm.
		It would seem to me it would be even more than curiosity.
		Just to even fathom what their agenda would be would almost be 101% pure speculation.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You make a good point, and I certainly acknowledge that, and I chose the title of my book, Alien Agenda, because it's just attention-getting.
		It gives you attention, and that's what I'm attempting to deal with.
		But I certainly make no claims that I'm laying down gospel here and that this is it.
		In fact, what I'm hoping and what I'm thinking I'm doing here is just barely opening the door on a public dialogue as to what is the agenda of these things.
		I think what I do by trailing all the way back to the ancient astronauts coming on forward through the government secrecy, through the Robertson panel, through the Condon report, detailing the whole history of this thing, I think I can prove to any reasonable-minded person that there is something valid going on.
		There's a real tangible reality happening here.
		And then I launch into some ideas and concepts about what this alien agenda may be.
		But you're absolutely right.
		It does get into the area of conjecture.
		And what I'm hoping I'm doing here is simply opening up a public dialogue.
		For instance, in the case of the Kennedy assassination, for so many years it was just socially unacceptable to even talk about it.
		But by the late 80s, all of a sudden it was on the table.
		And now it's socially acceptable to talk about the Kennedy assassination.
		And I want to do the same thing with the UFO issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Jim, what do you think of Ceceti and Dr. Greer's effort?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, he's trying to get together a lot of high-level military people who have signed oaths, has done that, and has gone back to Washington and has tried to present incontrovertible evidence collectively, I guess, or cumulatively, that cannot be ignored, demanding a congressional investigation of some kind.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But you know, his problem is the same with Hoagland.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		They're doing some really good work, but they're not getting the widespread media coverage that they deserve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		There is definitely a blackout.
		Let me give you an example of how this works, and I'm not going to use this fellow's real name or the real network because I don't want to get anybody in trouble.
		But let's just call this fellow Peter.
		Peter worked for one of the major TV networks.
		His job was on the weekend to take the affiliate feeds and check it out and decide what's going to go on the national news wire, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he said that there was only two stories that required prior approval.
		In other words, he had to take them upstairs to somebody, some brass to get the approval on it.
		One of them was terrorism, and I think we can kind of understand why that's there.
		But interestingly, he said most of the time, oh, occasionally they'd say, well, go easy on this or don't talk about this aspect, but most of the time those stories went ahead and moved on, you know.
		He said the second topic was UFOs, and he said when it came to UFOs, the stories never came back.
		In other words, they never got on the network news.
		And this is what's contributing mightily to the confusion and the controversy that's going on over the UFO issue is because there is control, very tight control, over The distribution of the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now that's a hot piece of information, Jim.
		That's really hot.
		You're pretty sure of that.
		Yeah.
		And yet, look at the way they covered Rancho Santa Fe.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at the Bilderberger meetings, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it seemed, in a way, when you look at Rancho Santa Fe, the coverage seemed derisive, trying to point out the nutcase crackpot aspect of it all.
		And boy, they sure went with that.
		They didn't have any trouble making a decision in the newsroom, the boardrooms, to go with that.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time Magazine wrote a piece after Rancho Santa Fe referring to my program.
		and uh...
		the first line was uh...
		uh...
		talking about reality challenged listeners uh...
		so uh...
		they cover it but when they do That's the way they cover it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's their mindset.
		Their mindset is, is that I live in reality and you don't.
		And yet, I think if you go and take an honest poll of the vast majority of the people in this country, they're going to say, hey, I live the real life and the media lives in her ivory tower somewhere and has no concept of what's really going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, is that true?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely true.
		I come from the media.
		I worked in it for 30 years, and I can tell you that's exactly the way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies are on the air with Jim Morris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
unidentified		I'm Robert Collins from Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, and I was wanting to know what your guests thought about Dr. Greer's last.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just missed that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just thought you missed that.
unidentified		Well, I've been on the phone calling for hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, his comment was that Dr. Greer, like Richard Hoagland, they're both doing good work, but they're not getting the proper coverage from the American media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's his comment.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you one thing, Ark.
		You remember when he said that none of his friends had their house or apartments burned down?
		A lot of that was overstated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Greer, yes.
unidentified		You interviewed somebody that was some kind of a jet pilot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did.
unidentified		Oh, I can't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't think of the saberjet.
unidentified		He flew a saber jet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
unidentified		And he said he was threatened.
		Yes, he did.
		Did you ever ask Dr. Greer about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, not other than the fact that Dr. Greer said that as far as he knew, nobody had been threatened.
		So that stopped that question cold.
		So I didn't proceed with that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear you there, sir.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, calling from Big Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the Big Island of Hawaii.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		So, talking about benevolent or non-benevolent aliens, you know, every time we shoot up a rocket, we're hurting the ozone layer.
		So those puppies are coming down here and destroying the heck out of our ozone layer.
		And that's not too benevolent, is it?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they are indeed harming the ozone layer, I don't think they know for certain that just passing through the ozone layer causes that amount of problem.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It's our jets with their exhaust that sends hydrofluorocarbons up into the ozone that's causing the problem.
unidentified		I'll buy that.
		Sounds good.
		Keep going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		I'll tell you, it's, of course, off into the land of conjecture, but if there were others, and if they could travel, and if they are watching us, and if you conclude that much is possible, then at the moment we begin to invent atomic energy, at the moment we have the ability to launch vehicles off our own planet, it seems to me the level of interest would increase.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		In fact, let me find this real quick.
		This is going to blow you away.
		It certainly blew me away.
		This is, and keep in mind, this is not an absolute certainty, but according to Major Kehoe, who as I studied and researched, came to have a kind of a grudging admiration for, he says that in 1946,
		a Dr. Fritz Zwicky participated in a secret Army ordnance project to bombard the moon, Mars, and other planets with projectiles launched on V-2 rockets in 1946.
		So the idea was they would place these things on top of V-2s, fire the V-2 up as far as it would go, and then basically like a second stage, zoom this thing on out into space with a warhead on it to create an explosion on the moon and on Mars and on maybe on Venus, other planets.
		And then astronomers then would look at this and from the size, configuration, and density and everything of these explosions, they could hopefully learn more about the planets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's great.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that great?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So we're firing missiles off at other planets and then a year later all the UFOs show up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim, can you spend one more hour?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I'll try to hang on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hang on.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		Lord, if I'm abducted, don't let it be the greatest.
		The short little guys with the big black eyes from a galaxy far away.
		I've heard the horror stories be taken in the dead of night.
		Laid out on the table like a Christmas tree, afraid I'd die from fright.
		They can paralyze you with their eyes and levitate you out of bed.
		Pull you right up through the ceiling and start conversation with your head.
		Now if they would just stop at that, I wouldn't mind too much.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		But I've heard they'll probe you up and down.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You won't like where they touch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Little country for you.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The witnesses say they're humorous much like that.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I'm quite surprised.
unidentified		Cause they watch all the reruns of I Love Lucy and the best of Saturday night life.
		I don't want to be a live experiment while the children have a place.
		I know.
		Go find your keys and protest things.
		We find out the skies alone.
		Please lower the body for dust today.
		Don't let it be to the grave.
		Sure little guys with big black eyes from a galaxy far away.
		I've heard the forest stories, we diggin'in the dead of night.
		Played out on the table like a Christmas tree, I'm afraid I'd die from pride.
		When I'd never signed the tree, you never thought they'd stay.
		Maybe hang around long enough to mutilate some cattle and they'd be on their way.
		We built some underground bases and they're feelin'right at home.
		Like that Greenland in Nevada, where the antelope and aliens roam.
		Thank you.
		And Artfell knows what's going on.
		They probably ship him and rides for free.
		For all we know, he's one of them.
		That's why he's on radio and not TV.
		Think about it.
		Please, Lord, if I'm the ducted, don't let it be his grace.
		The short little guys with the big black eyes from a galaxy far away.
		I've heard the horror stories being digging in the dead and massive.
		Mr. CBC.
		Out on a table like a Christmas tree.
		I'm afraid I'd die.
		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Jim Mars, his book, Alien Agenda.
		And we're going to get back to them in your calls, and we're going to lay heavily into the phones this hour.
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		Coast Insiders with Android System 4.0 and above, or iPhone, check out our new app at the Google Play or iTunes stores, or link from the Coast website.
		Get a new view of the world with Coast2Coast AM.
		First of all, I want to just thank you for bringing everyone out here to Cornucopia.
		This phenomenal knowledge.
		I don't know of anyone else that I've ever listened to at radio, and that just fills my brain and stimulates me.
		But, you know, I was listening to the show and I thought to myself, do you think, George, the common citizen such as you or I, really has any hope towards the future of any privacy or anything else?
		I think we do.
		I think eventually so many people will see the light, see what you see, see what I see, that eventually they're going to say enough is enough.
		And I think that we do have a future and we're going to win in the long run.
		It's going to be bumpy along the way.
		It's not going to be easy, but we will get there.
		That's my take.
		And you know what?
		As long as I can continue on the earwaves and tell people this, I shall.
		Coast to Coast AM sure sounds great in the middle of the night.
		But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Jim Mars, and his book is Alien Agenda.
		What a title, huh?
		And here he is once again.
		Jim, are you there?
unidentified		I am here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		I want to lay heavily into the phone lines this hour, and so let's do it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		How are you this evening?
unidentified		This morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Mr. Mars?
		I was wondering, are you the Tex Mars that I've heard about?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is not Tex Mars.
unidentified		It is not Tex Mars.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No relation, as far as I know.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, I would like to share an experience that I had when I lived in California.
		I'm in Amarillo, Texas here.
		My name is Lynn.
		And I had an experience with some creatures.
		I was homeless at the time.
		We were living outside of a town in the San Joaquin Valley.
		And there were kids that were coming out and raiding our homeless camp.
		And I happened to be there by myself one day, and I saw the grass moving, and I chased this thing down into the bushes.
		And I caught up with it, and I opened the bushes, and it wasn't reptilian and it wasn't humanoid and it wasn't what people call what the grays look like with the big eyes and everything.
		And I haven't shared this with too many people.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So what did it look like?
unidentified		It was, well like I said, it wasn't humanoid and it wasn't reptilian.
		It was kind of, I don't know, a mauve color, mushroom-shaped head.
		When I went to reach for it to grab it, it had disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You reached for it to grab it?
unidentified		Yeah, it was in the bushes.
unidentified		It had ducked into the bushes and I spread the bushes apart to grab it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, now you've said something that makes me disbelieve you or doubt you a little bit.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's like the last thing in the world I would do with a creature is to try to grab it.
unidentified		Well, it scared me, and I scared it.
		It screamed at the same time I screamed, and I reached out to touch it or grab it or whatever.
		I don't know.
		You know, it was a reaction.
		And it disappeared.
		And several times.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You mean like just winked out of existence or disappeared off into the grass?
unidentified		No, it winked out of existence.
		And then a little time after that, there were several other creatures that were bigger than this one, more adult-sized.
		And I was wondering, you know, you said that they are observing us, perhaps.
		And maybe that they are looking for not a spokesperson for Earth, but for them, you know, that they're observing somebody.
		Earlier in the evening, of this morning, someone mentioned that maybe there were people, they were looking for people to go along with them.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's entirely possible.
		I've got a fascinating story that I recount in Alien Agenda about a man who was abducted, I guess, but kind of got into what was going on and asked to drive the craft and later was, they tried to recruit him to be a UFO pilot.
		And he was going to go along with it until he found out he said, well, I have to go get my family.
		And they said, oh, no, no families.
		You know, you can't bring your family.
		So he said, well, then I'll have to turn it down.
		And this was not, this was a, this is a credible military intelligence officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Let me ask you about something that we have not yet touched on.
		This call, though, makes me want to ask you about it.
		There is, maybe, this creature called the Chupacabra.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was thinking when this fella started recapitulating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you go.
		Have you looked into that at all?
		Have you looked into the chupacabra?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's covered mainly in agenda also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be darned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you didn't miss much.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And here's the thing.
		It seems to be moving closer to us because it started, the chupacabridas started off in Puerto Rico and then were reported in Central America and then in Mexico.
		And then just since the first of this year, I had some news clippings from the Dallas Morning News.
		There was reports from South Texas of the Chupacabra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so that's still ongoing.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And we're not sure what all that involves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Chupacabra would appear to be, based on the reports, a kind of a creature that is here sometimes and maybe somewhere else, maybe moving through some sort of portal or dimension or something to get here, something along those lines.
unidentified		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I guess what it comes down to is that I think there's a whole lot going on that we, meaning humans, meaning all of us, either are not aware of or just barely aware of or it has nothing to do with us, but it's going on in our space-time continuum.
		You know, there's just a lot going on.
		It's like Shakespeare said, a lot more things under heaven and sun than are dreamt of in our philosophy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I can't believe I made it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You made it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Mesa, Arizona.
		Okay.
		My name is Phil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phil, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're somebody who might have seen that stuff above Phoenix.
unidentified		As a matter of fact, I did.
		There you go.
		But I would like to actually talk about an incident I saw about three years ago in Las Vegas.
		And I sent you some email.
		You might have received it.
		It's about 10 o'clock in the morning.
		And I was traveling, if anyone's familiar with Las Vegas, I was traveling down Decatur Boulevard towards Spring Mountain.
		And my friend has an RX-7, and I was looking through his sunroof, and I glanced out his sunroof, and I just stared at this object.
		I didn't really think too much of it.
		And after about, I'd say about five seconds of staring at it, I freaked out and I said, Dave, pull over the car.
		There's a UFO.
		And so he didn't believe me.
		And I kept stressing to pull over the car.
		I kept stressing.
		Anyway, we ended up pulling over the car.
		And this object was just phenomenal.
		If I had to estimate the size of it, it was, God, it was, boy, I would say it's the size of about two football fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		The design of it was like an airplane, but it wasn't an airplane.
		It looked something like it was some type of new Air Force plane, but it just hovered.
		It sat in one place and hovered over the city.
		It was just phenomenal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know of that sighting caller, thank you.
		And he is correct.
		I've heard many reports of that sighting.
		Of course, you've got to bear in mind that in Las Vegas or here where I am, in Parump, we're in areas where secret technology is being tested.
		And so it's a lot fuzzier, the distinction between what might be alien and what might be our stuff or alien reconstructed back-end engineered craft.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Let me ask you something along those lines.
		Here's something that puzzles me, because I had somebody, we were talking about the Phoenix thing just a few days ago, and somebody brought up the idea, well, again, maybe that's just secret government testing.
		But my question to you is, why would they test something over a population center like that?
		Wouldn't they go off somewhere out in the mountains or over some place where there's hardly anybody to do their secret testing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I've been asking that exact question.
		Doesn't make any sense, does it?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're trying to keep something secret, you don't put it over an area of about 2 million plus people.
unidentified		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And then try to tell them it's flares.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that story kind of came and went quickly.
		They gave up on that one quickly.
		It's right up there with Weather Balloon.
		I'm told to ask you about Ezekiel, who not only saw the wheel, but was taken up for a ride.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is for those who take every word of the Bible literally.
unidentified		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Except, you know what I found what's so funny and ironic about that is that Ezekiel, number one, and this is all covered in alien agenda again, was a good reporter.
		He didn't say, I was laying by the river one day and I had this vision, came, you know, and I just saw this stuff.
		He's particular.
		He said, I was by the river Shebar.
		It was the year of such and such after King so-and-so did such and such.
		I mean, he dates his thing.
		He got it down, and he says, I looked up to the north and I saw a vision of God.
		Okay?
		Now, that's in the original King James.
		Now, in the modern, in some of the more modern translations, and I think this is a good illustration of how just the slight change of a word or phrase can alter the meaning.
		In some of the modern translations, it says, he was by the river, and he looked up, and God came to him in a vision.
		Well, see, that's a semantical difference there, but you can see the difference.
		Now, in the original King James, when he's talking about, I saw a vision of God, then he goes on to say, to describe it, he goes on to say that the vision of God landed, the vision of God took me up, the vision of God took me to a city, and while they were going to the city, and he was being given a tour and very carefully describing the city that was up in some mountains, I believe, they got to one point and he said, what's in that building?
		And they said, oh, you can't go in there.
		The vision of God's in there.
		So to me, it's very obvious that Ezekiel is trying to, to the best of his ability, to describe something that he has no concept of and can only describe as a vision of God.
		Now, what's ironic is that the people who would argue against a literal translation are the very fundamentalist types who argue about the inerrancy of the Bible.
		But I've got one book where a very conservative fundamentalist claims, oh, well, Ezekiel was just talking in allegories.
		In other words, he just made that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here's the point.
		I find that interesting.
		Allegories when otherwise they will defend every other word as literal.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that ironic?
		Yeah, I'll settle for that word.
		One other question.
		Could you expand on a remark made on page 321 of your book?
		That's in the remote viewing area.
		Some viewers said it certainly appears as if this planet, remote viewers, as if this planet is being kept under quarantine.
		Interesting word.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For some reason.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, there's plenty to suggest that.
		I began noticing this in the late 70s, even before I left the newspaper that I worked for for a good number of years.
		You would see the, we get the new, again, this has to do with control of the media.
		You have the stories about, like at the first of this year, I think Prime Star put up four or five or maybe more communication satellites.
		And, you know, they just fired them up there and they're in orbit.
		And boy, now they've got 120 channels, you know, or 200 channels with nothing worth watching on, you know, but there they are.
		And you hear about this, and there's no problem.
		But for the longest time, you'd see these little bitty stories that would say there's going to be a launch, but it has to do with military, and there's a, you know, it's secret.
		And then you'd see a two or three graph little story back at the back of the page says the Pentagon announced that they lost touch with their satellite, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And they would put up these satellites and then they would just be gone.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		They'd lose them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of losing, we've got a couple on the way to Mars right now, Jim.
		That's right.
		Do you expect that they'll get there and do their job or do you think they'll be lost in space?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting because I covered in some detail the loss of the two major Mars probes from Russia, the Phobos II, and IRS, the Mars observer.
		And according to the remote viewers, the same thing happened to both of them, which was as they approached Mars and were about to go into orbit, something rose off the Martian surface and flew out to meet it, scanned it with an electromagnetic beam, which disrupted the onboard computers and then caused it basically to lose contact and crash into the atmosphere of Mars.
		But now let me hasten to add that the viewers who took a look at this, none of them seemed to think that this was any particular type of hostile act.
		It was more like the tugboats coming out to meet the Queen Mary, but then realizing that it wasn't the Queen Mary, it wasn't anything that they had anything to do with.
		So after scanning it, they just turned around and went back, but it was enough to cripple this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's going to be interesting to see if the ones we've done on the way now make it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right, and I would advise everybody to keep their eye on that very closely.
		And if they make it and start sending back images, then that's one form of input.
		And if they suddenly lose contact with these, then we've got another form of income.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there was a Russian probe similar to the ones that we sent.
		And in the case of the Russians, though, they got this really interesting image just before they lost contact with their craft, with their probe.
		That was the photos too, I believe.
		And there is a photograph.
		I don't happen to have it, and by the way, if anybody else out there has it, please send it to me by email or whatever.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to see that object.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Look at Alien Agenda in the photograph section.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you've got a photograph?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Here's a picture of Marina Popovich holding up the last known photograph, or one of the last known photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give me a page number.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's in the photo section.
		It's the next to the last page in the photo section.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I found the photograph of that object that the fellow was holding up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're referring to?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It's a Russian woman, Colonel Marina Popovich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's see.
		Where is she?
		Oh, you've got some really good crop circle photos in here, too, don't you?
		I'll be dogged on.
		I'm still looking.
		Oh, here it is.
		Here it is.
		I'm going to see if I can get that.
		Let me try and get that up there for the internet viewers to see.
		It may be kind of hard to see, but this is a photograph of the object that was there apparently just before they lost touch with the spacecraft.
		And that's interesting.
		I wonder what that was.
		Something obviously is coming up to meet spacecraft that are trying to probe Mars.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there we got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just absolutely incredible.
unidentified		How did you happen to get that?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That photograph?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It was part of a news article that appeared in the, I think the credits right here, San Francisco Chronicle, back in 91, I think it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm going to have to see what I can do about getting a hold of that myself.
		So many calls, so little time.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Whoops, what have been?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Arbell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I'm here in Yakima.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yakima, Washington, are you?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Listen, I'd like to first mention one thing.
		I ordered the Kaido Slam.
		I've been on it five days and I've lost three pounds.
		Wonderful product.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Kaido Slam, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		The second thing is, I wondered if you would ask your guest, Mr. Mars, if he has any insight about the major button thing about that military pilot who left his squad and then disappeared, and then all of a sudden they're picking off little bitty pieces.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Do you think that has anything to do with time travel or the interdimensional thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, hold your answer, ma'am.
		Thank you.
		We will come back to that answer right after the break.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		The End
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Top of the morning, everybody.
		Jim Morris is my guest.
		His book is Alien Agenda.
		And it covers just about every aspect you can imagine of the whole alien question.
		We'll get back to them in just one moment.
unidentified		Looking for the truth, you'll find it on Coast2Coast AM.
		Nobody wants terrorism, obvious.
		But I don't know who to believe anymore.
		Because, you know, if something happens, you would think, oh my gosh, this is real terrorism.
		But then on the other hand, if you say, this is just their way of saying we need to implement more of these controls, not everything is a conspiracy.
		The problem is you have to look at everything as if it's a conspiracy because nowadays, you just don't know.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 11, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Jim Mars, and I just did an unforgivable thing, I think.
		I forgot what the last question was.
		Do you remember what you were just asked?
unidentified		Oh boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should have written it down.
		I usually am pretty good about that, but sometimes when I go into a break, a person asks you a very good question and it totally went out of my mind.
		Short-term memory loss, Jim.
		That's right.
		To all of us.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art and Jim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		First time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Atlanta Lakes, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		My name is Doug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Doug.
unidentified		I have experienced encounter.
		I have also experienced recently May 26, 1997, at West Palm.
		I have seen the lights in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Y'all, West Palm had a big light show going on.
		As a matter of fact, in conjunction with that, the West Palm Beach Sheriff's Office, the whole thing shut down because within an hour or two of that, their Hallion system kicked on and they had to evacuate the whole place.
		And Hallion systems don't kick on that easily.
		So, yeah, that's from what you're saying.
unidentified		Can your guest justify that, explain that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not, but we can ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had you heard about the West Palm stuff, Jim?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No.
		There again, see, that sounds like one heck of a story, and yet it didn't make it to Texas.
		It's the same thing I saw earlier this year.
		There was some good videotape made here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and it was actually aired on one of the news broadcasts.
		Excuse me.
		And then at the same time, while that was happening, I flew to Atlanta and found out that they were having the same type thing happening in Atlanta.
		And the local news coverage was talking about it.
		But see, that information never made it from Atlanta to Texas or Texas to Atlanta or none of those made them anywhere else.
unidentified		That's the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, we've got this wonderful free press in America, supposedly.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it belongs to the guy that owns the press.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but still in all, I'm set loose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, nobody's come after me yet.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And I wrote this book, and it got published.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So far.
		And yet, the mass media, as led by the networks and, I'll say it, the Associated Press.
		Right.
		When the Associated Press writes an article, whatever angle they take on it is the angle that, you know, I'm going to be honest, most newsrooms, except the bigger, more responsible ones, rip and read.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they take what the Associated Press or UPI prints and they read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that becomes the story.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And art, it used to be bells.
		Back in the old days, we had bells.
		And if they rang four bells, ding, ding, ding, ding, that's telling them this is a real story.
		Run this on the front page.
		You know, if it came through in the middle of the night with no bells, then it can't be much of a story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And that's how you can control the play and the distribution of the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember even five bells, and I remember once ten.
		Yeah.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Morris.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Kansas City.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I had a couple of things.
		Actually, the first thing had to do with the government cover-up of information, which I know we all believe is going on.
		I know I do.
		I was just wondering if you thought there was anything that we could really do about it, the American public, as far as taking action against trying to find out this information.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that as an individual you're going to be able to push the federal government around very much, but I'll tell you where I think you could make a big difference because, and it fits in line with what Art and I were just talking about, about the media.
		The media, for all its problems, still likes to at least think of itself as being very responsive to the public.
		And if you would simply make a phone call, write a letter, send some email, send fax, whatever, get your friends to do likewise, and simply hold the media's feet to the fire and make them do what they say they do, which is go out and cover the news of what's going on.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		And I was thinking, I don't know, sounds crazy probably, but if you could somehow get some nationwide publicity of something and get like a million-man march thing from a couple years ago and have 100,000 people show up at Area 51 and walk across their restricted area line, march up to the gate, you know, what would they be able to do?
		They would have to do something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they would arrest us.
unidentified		They couldn't arrest half the country, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, sir.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Wasn't there some kind of thing like that that they tried up in Washington about UFOs and about some kind of march, some kind of picket around the White House or something?
		I'm vague on it because, again, there was a news blackout.
		They didn't talk about it, but didn't they try that a few years back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and every year, actually, there are people who march outside the White House on this very issue, and they get little or no coverage.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And as a result, you know, see, that's the key to it.
		The local coverage, there's something happens in Nevada, something happens in Texas, and it's covered there.
		They're not worried about that.
		The thing they're concerned about and where the control gets very tight is the mass media, where you reach the entire country.
unidentified		Yeah, they would hear about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And the other thing real quickly, I was listening to you saying how the probes going to Mars would seem to lose contact with them.
unidentified		I was just wondering, how could you explain that Viking was able to land on Mars?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, it landed in a very out-of-the-way place, and as you well know, the information that came back seemed to indicate there wasn't much there.
		So why disable that?
		You know, that's pretty much what they want everybody to know.
unidentified		That's true.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And that would be like sending, if we lived on Mars and we sent a probe to Earth and we landed one lander in the middle of Antarctica, is that going to give us an accurate picture of the Earth?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		I asked the two fellows I had from NASA here, if we were to orbit a craft around Earth capable of resolving the same type of imagery that we resolved when we Took the picture of the face on Mars.
		And we pointed the camera, luckily, at Giza.
		And we saw the pyramids.
		Would we understand what we were looking at?
		And there was a long silence, and they said, absolutely not.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And I think that may be true.
		As I'm remembering correctly, I think the only thing that can be seen from space on the Earth that would give any indication of intelligent life is, believe it or not, the Great Wall of China.
		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what would stop us from interpreting that as we did the canals on Mars?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And then there would be the debunkers who said it's just a natural rock formation that just happened to get in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, not rock formations like the hundred monkeys.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Mars.
		Hi.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Dorothy and Kirkland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I had an idea for luring down a UFO.
unidentified		I wanted to ask Mr. Mars if that's really such a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, Jim, I'll tell you what I did once, and it was about two weeks before Phoenix.
		I said to my audience, a considerable number of people out there, millions, if, as everybody suggests, communication with these beings is telepathic, then I wonder what would happen if we gathered a bunch of us together and telepathically tried to call down Kraft.
		Just tried to call them down.
		Said, make yourselves visible.
		So we did that.
		Two weeks later, we had Phoenix.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		See, that comes back to the old line that says, be careful what you wish for because you might just get it.
		I know.
		That's kind of my thought.
		I've had some thoughts about that, too.
		Like I said, I'm out here in the country, and there's a big valley uninhabited right behind my place.
		It would be a beautiful, with a big grass field there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good landing spot.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it'd be a perfect landing spot.
		I've often wondered, you know, what would I do if something really did come down there and land?
		And, you know, I think it's kind of like combat.
		I think it's one of those situations where you can think, whoa, I'd do this or I'd do that, you know, but I don't think anybody really knows what they do until they experience it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right.
		And I mean, here I talk about this kind of stuff.
		I went through the first, oh, actually, 40 some odd years of my life and never saw a thing on Toured.
		Now I've seen two things, and in both cases, after the first one, I said, by God, next time I'm going to be ready.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Next time I'm going to wave and say hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, next time I'm going to have a camera, I'm going to do this.
		I'm going to do that.
		I was all cocky.
		And it's like when it happens, you freeze, you go into a different kind of state.
		Belief and reality are sort of suspended.
		It lasts two or three minutes.
		It's over.
		You chew it over mentally then for months afterwards or years.
		But you're in a weird kind of condition when it's occurring, Jim.
		That's exactly correct.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's true.
		And, you know, I can run through all kinds of scenarios in my mind.
		Oh, I'll do this and I'll do that.
		And I think that'd be neat.
		And I'd like to go with it.
		But, you know, I don't know.
		When it really starts happening, I think that may be something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Jim Morris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, you're going to have to speak up for us, sir.
unidentified		Okay, can you hear me better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Okay, this is Dodd in Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'd like to ask Jim, we're all in agreement that there is next to no media coverage on a nationwide basis of this subject.
unidentified		Jim, what is your take on what appears to be in the last couple of years an increasing output of product from Hollywood dealing with the subject?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
		I think that's part of the conditioning process, the quickening that Art has talked about.
		I will say this, though.
		Let me throw this in real quick.
		I've just gotten back from a two-week whirlwind media tour, and I was hit several different cities and did some signings, did a lot of media.
		Including while I was in New York, I was in the studios of CBS and CNN.
		And let me tell you, it's kind of interesting.
		There's kind of a different attitude taking place in the mass media.
		Now, it's still not breaking that log jam of the nationwide mass media, but individually there are people within the media who are beginning to take this whole subject a whole lot more seriously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I won't name names, but there are people at CNN right now that are treating it differently.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I think this will continue and increase.
		And that's going to be kind of interesting, you know, when more and more of those guys start getting on board, and then what's going to happen?
		I don't really know.
		But there is a difference that's taking place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been treated to a sort of a recent rash of news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a rock from Mars, microbial life.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How interesting.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the thing about the guy who had it right here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water on the moon.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The guy who, back in the late 80s, theorized that meteor, that comets coming in from space disintegrated in the atmosphere.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		And of course, comets are mostly made up of ice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope to be interviewing him, yes.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Great, okay.
		And now it's been proven that that's true.
		So, see, all the life on Earth may have had an extraterrestrial origin to begin with.
unidentified		So we may be E.T. Yeah, that's another thing.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		See, that's kind of how I end up alien agenda.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I paraphrase the great possum philosopher, Pogo, who said, you know, we have found the alien agenda, and it's all about us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Wild Card Line, you are on the air with Jim Morris.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jeff from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Phoenix, yes.
unidentified		Good.
		Hi, Jim.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		Quick question, or actually a couple of them, but I want to make a quick statement.
		I wanted to mention the NASA guest that you had on.
		Didn't you notice or did you notice that when they spoke, that one person was in charge, and if one other person wants to speak, or did you notice that there were signals between the two?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Like a cough or what have you.
		But anyway, I just wanted to mention that.
		And one question I wanted you to ask them, but you didn't, I don't think, that I heard, was how the space shuttles acquired the names that they did, such as Columbia, Discovery, and so on and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of it came from Star Trek.
unidentified		And that's how they acquired the names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Enterprise?
unidentified		Enterprise, right?
		But Jim, I had a question for you, if I may.
		What's your take on hypnotic regression?
		Do you think it works?
		And I also want to ask you about implants.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wait a minute.
		I'm fading fast here.
		When you say hypnotic regression, are you talking about using hypnosis to bring back abduction experiences, or are you talking about regression where you're regressing back to another lifetime?
unidentified		Right, hypnosis to bring back abduction experiences.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I cover that pretty extensively in my book Alien Agenda.
		And I think there is an argument, and what seems to be the consensus of opinion of people on both pro and con, is that hypnosis can be a very good tool, okay?
		But it is not foolproof, and it has to be used under very stringent conditions.
		And I'm a big believer in that.
		But let me quickly point out, though, that there are plenty of abductees who tell very consistent stories and that are consistent with the people who undergo the hypnosis, who tell the same stories without the aid of hypnosis.
		So the people who are trying to say that all the abductions can be explained away as bad hypnosis sessions where the hypnotist is leading the witness, that's simply not true.
unidentified		Now, are you telling me this from your opinion or experience with people that you've interviewed?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm saying that in my study, and I did an extensive study of the literature, and there are those who allege that all the experiences can be explained away as just bad hypnosis, but I'm telling you, there's a lot of them that have had conscious recall without the hypnosis.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So obviously there's something going on other than just ill-used hypnosis.
unidentified		Which brings me to suspicion of why so many people can have the same experience worldwide.
unidentified		I just don't understand it.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is.
		And as far as I'm concerned, it's either one of two things.
		Either this is a heretofore undiagnosis, undiagnosed mass psychosis, in which case that's a hell of a story, or they're all talking about some reality.
unidentified		One more question, if I may.
unidentified		As far as implants goes, do you know or have you heard of anybody being able to view an implant?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I document some medical procedures that have actually extricated implants from people.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		We discussed that a little bit earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Carla, if you've got access to the web on my website, you will find electron microscope photographs of an implant removed at the behest of John Mack at Harvard.
unidentified		I did see that.
unidentified		The question I had, I was curious about, was, do you think you can see them in your ear?
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		You mean like just looking at somebody's ear and seeing it?
unidentified		Yeah, with a blade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I would think it's pretty difficult because it's my understanding from my study that most of these, number one, they're little bitty tiny things to begin with.
		And number two, most of them are embedded like just under the skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		So I don't think that just with the naked eye and a cursory look, I don't think you would see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim, you've been a real trooper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So give out the 800 number again to get hold of your book, Alien Agenda.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Everybody rush out because like I said, this is the book you want to give.
		If you're a believer, this is the book you want to give to your non-believing friends.
		If they read it cover to cover and look you in the eye and say, oh, there's nothing happening, then they're a better man than me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has been a pleasure having you.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		This has really been a good time.
		I know that I've enjoyed it.
		I think you've enjoyed it.
		And I hope your audience has enjoyed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what it's all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jim, thank you.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		See you later.
		That's Jim Mars in Texas, where it's probably time to go to bed.
unidentified		And I suspect that's what he's going to be doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it has been yet another good night.
		I want to thank everybody out there.
		And we will be back again tomorrow night, I think, with open lines.
		We may do an open line session tomorrow night, and who knows what may happen.

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