Art Bell

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May 30, 1997 - Art Bell

58:18

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Keith Rowland - Interview (hour 2)

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Call art bell, toll three, west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are the ones.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Open lines all night long, except for this hour.
		This hour is going to be very special.
		The man who brings you my website, who does all the work on the website, which is quite considerable, Keith Rowland is going to be my guest for this hour.
		Now, the first reason that we're bringing him on is to explain the April Fool's situation and the FBI, involvement with the FBI and the State Department, and what happened, how it happened, and where we now stand, and whether we will all have to collectively send Keith Rowland a file and a cake.
		So that coming up, and then we will allow you to ask Keith Rowlings about the website.
		It is a gigantic one now, indeed.
		So all of that coming up in a moment.
		2669.
		All right, that's 1-800-659-2669.
		Ah, only I can interrupt myself.
		Silly, huh?
		I mean, I did the commercial.
		I had to know when it's over.
		All right.
		April 1st was a strange day on my website.
		And let me begin by telling you that I had no idea myself what was about to occur.
		And innocently, as I always do, in about the first hour or two of the program, I pulled up my website and damn near had a heart attack.
		As a matter of fact, I almost did have a heart attack.
		Keith, welcome to the program.
		Hello there.
		Hi.
		From non-smoking Mesa, Arizona.
		That's us.
		Here is Keith Zeroland, who runs my website, www.artbell.com.
		Now, tell them, Keith, you didn't tell me you were going to do that, did you?
unidentified		No, I didn't tell anybody what I was going to do, so I could pull one on you, too.
		But basically, I'll paint a picture for anybody who didn't get in on the joke.
		Normally the web page is a nice black background with different colored headers and stuff, and it lists the items of the day, new items, and the different pages of the website.
		And there's a nice graphical picture of you at the top of the page, and it just basically announces itself quite well.
		And so everybody's used to going up there every day and seeing the same picture and same-looking background.
		And all of a sudden, one day you click on that, you get this big white screen with the U.S. Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation logo sitting up in the top left-hand corner.
		And it's showing a press release from Washington, D.C. And it's dated for immediate release, April 1, 1997.
		Now, if you were really sharp, that would have caught you right there.
		But this is what the notice said on the page.
		And keep in mind the timing of when this happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right after Heavensgate.
unidentified		Yes.
		It said, quote, the Art Bell website, www.artbell.com, has been removed pending an investigation initiated by the San Diego Field Office Commander John Wesijoke.
		Lead special agents are conducting the investigation as fast as possible into the connections to the Heavensgate suicide case.
		We will return the website into operation after determination of the amount of involvement of the parties who operate this website and the material presented.
		If you have any information pertaining to the involvement of the website operators and the Heavensgate membership, please contact Special Agent Ms. May I Polyleg at our San Diego field office.
		And for more information on this case and others, see our website.
		And I gave that address.
		I gave the address of the San Diego FBI building.
		And then at the bottom, I said, P.S., if you're still with us, you'll be happy to know that this is really a joke.
		And you can click here to visit the real homepage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, having said all of that, Keith, even so, when I saw it, with all the names in there and with even the disclaimer at the bottom, I still just about had a heart attack.
		And I can tell you, so did a lot of my audience, because, of course, you only sort of, you quickly read something, no doubt, something you were depending on, and you get shocked.
		And it worked very well indeed.
		And I had hundreds of messages.
unidentified		Yes, I camouflage the names so that if you're reading them, you don't know what they are.
unidentified		But if you actually speak those names, as in was a joke, or may I pull your leg, then you kind of get the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, but you get it later, in my case.
unidentified		And of course, the little announcement at the bottom is probably scrolled off your screen while you're reading this, so you don't see it right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You specifically talked about the San Diego Sealed Office.
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, I only mentioned that because at the time, that's where the server was at or had been hosted.
		And so I picked that location.
		That's where the Heavensgate case was being handled and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I thought that was appropriate.
unidentified		And so what I had done is I had taken basically the layout of another SDI press release and just kind of copied the layout of their press release.
		So it looked very much like theirs.
		Sure.
		And I took their logo off their website and I doctored it up a little bit, kind of blurried it up and obscured it a little bit.
		So it wasn't an exact copy, but it looked like an official looking seal, kind of a generic-looking seal.
		And so that got posted up there and we had it up there for the day for 24 hours and then we took it down.
		And then I took all of the email comments that you and I had collected and I posted it on the page below this and I put a link up there saying, you know, here was our April Fool's page joke with all the comments that we had.
		And I had, you know, probably 30, 40, 50 email Messages of people describing the shock and disbelief and comments that they were making as they had read the page.
		And we put that up there for about a week.
		And then I removed the link off of the home page so that you couldn't see it anymore.
		But I did leave the page up on the website on the file server.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you got a letter of thank you from the FBI who really got a kick out of that in San Diego, right?
unidentified		Approximately 30 days later, dated May the 9th, we got a letter sent to Myron, who is my partner in the operation here, who was the official name that was on the domain name at the time.
		And they wrote a letter to him, dear Mr. McLeod, on April the 1st, 1997, an altered news release depicting the official seal of the Federal Bureau of Investigation had been downloaded and altered to appear on the ARPBEL website as an April Fool's joke.
		So they knew all about it here.
		Your name appears as the administrative contact of the ARPBEL page.
		Please be aware, regardless of intention or the appearance of a disclaimer, misuse of the FBI name and or seal without authorization of the FBI is punishable by law.
		Apparently I should have asked permission.
		Although the aforementioned joke can no longer be reached via the homepage, it is accessible at and they give the direct address and should be removed immediately to avoid further contact from the FBI.
		And they say they close with the U.S. Attorney's Office, San Diego, has also been appraised of this matter, appraised of this matter.
		And it's signed by special agent in charge.
		So my plan was, okay, I will remove the April Fool's joke page and I will post their letter because now I no longer have to take it from their website.
		I actually posted the one they sent me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, that letter is up there now for all of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Since they've officially sent it to me, I can certainly post that up on the website.
unidentified		It's an official use of their logo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now the real logo is up there.
unidentified		Now the real logo is up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		By the way, I need to say hi to the people in the chat room here that I'm with.
unidentified		They don't believe it's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, really?
		I have that problem all the time.
		I get into chat rooms and nobody ever believes it's me.
unidentified		I'll say hello to Silkwood.
unidentified		She's been a real helper in the chat room for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
		So we do have some chat room up on the web page.
		It does require the Java-type browser, and we have a bulletin board service up there, which also does work with WebTV, by the way.
		And the web page just keeps on growing and getting bigger and bigger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen.
unidentified		We got into a little bit of trouble, but we'll get by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trouble's my middle name, and I know yours now, too.
unidentified		Oh, it was lots of fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there ever a moment when you thought, you know, a couple guys in suits with badges would show up and cart you off to someplace?
unidentified		Well, actually, I didn't believe it for a while because they went and contacted, you know, Myron in San Diego, and I'm here in Arizona, and I'm the official webmaster.
		I would have at least expected an email to me or a phone call to me, but they kind of just cut to the official administrative name and sent it that way.
		And when I got this email from them telling me what they had said, I just, I had a hard time believing it.
		And I'm going, you've got to be kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess, you know, it's kind of like this radio program, so large now, and so is the website, that anything you do brings a ton of comment.
		Now, we've had, I think, about 2.6 million visitors to the main page website since the beginning of the year.
		That's right.
		So a lot of people are there, and any little tiny thing you do is magnified.
		And when you do a big thing, it's really magnified.
unidentified		Yes, I'm learning the power of the web page.
		It's reaching lots of people and to be very careful of what we do and say.
		I like to post what's out there and let people go and see what's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we should tell everybody it has become so large, the website, that we had to finally install a search engine.
		And that is there.
		In other words, if you want to find something, this is really a good piece of advice to give because I get so much email saying, where's this?
		Where's that?
		I look for it.
		I can't find it.
		There's a place on the website where you can go and just enter a word or two and it will go find what you're after, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
		Right.
		Yeah, we have a lot of different pages.
		We broke it up into smaller chunks, and we tried to list an index of all of the pages on the home page.
		So if you scroll down the home page, you'll get an idea of all the different pages we have.
		But within each one of those pages, there's lots of material on them, and you may not know which page I put something on after I've had it on the website for a little while.
		Because initially, when we get new things, we put them up in the top of the page saying, here's the new items.
		And so they're temporarily for the first week or so.
		You can go to the new stuff immediately by clicking on them.
		But after a while, they're not new anymore, and they find a permanent home on a page somewhere.
		And if you want to come back at another later time, you're not sure where it was, you can type in a couple words or phrases or something and let it do the searching.
		And it will come back and give you a list of all of the pages that have those particular words on them and give you the hot links to them.
		So then all you've got to do is kind of look at the right one.
		It gives you a little sampling of the text that's on those pages.
		And then you can click the one that you think it is, and it'll take you right to the page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want to ask your opinion on something because we're both hams.
		And hams over the years have somewhat looked askance at C beers.
		And in that same sense, when Web TV came along, I thought, boy, this is going to be like the CB, CB compared to ham radio.
		But in fact, Web TV is quite incredible, isn't it?
unidentified		Yes, I was very impressed with it.
		I've looked at it at the local stores down here and went into the store and called up our web page, and it looked rather good.
		And I was real impressed.
		It was very, very easy to use and fairly fast.
		And I really liked the way it looked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, before, of course, I advertised anything, they sent it to me.
		So I've got WebTV here, and gosh, it's using a 33.6 modem.
		It connects incredibly quickly.
		It allows me real audio, so you can listen to archive Shows, that kind of thing.
		And it's really all there.
		Now, obviously, you do get more with a computer with storage, but Web TV is extremely impressive.
unidentified		And, you know, even as a secondary access to the net, it would still be worthwhile to have it, even if you had a computer.
		It does work very well.
		The pictures come up nice.
		All the links get highlighted in a square box.
		You sequence down.
		You know exactly where you're going.
		You click a button.
		When you click on the images, it automatically centers them up on the screen.
		I think they've done a real nice job with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do I. I'm very impressed.
		And for somebody who's not into computers, and that takes a little while, there's a real love-hate relationship between computers and human beings, at least for me.
		Web TV is so simple.
unidentified		I think what it'll do is it'll get people involved in the net to the point where they're going to save their pennies and buy a real computer in the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Think so?
unidentified		Yeah.
		I think, you know, it'll get them online cheap enough and get them used to it, and they'll like it.
		And then if they want more capabilities, they'll upgrade it, I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For a lot of people, it may be enough, because, I mean, on the one I market, for example, there's a printer port, and you're going to be able to attach a color printer to it.
unidentified		Yeah, that's very nice being able to print it because I don't think you can save any of the files, but you can go to a web page and print it out on paper.
		That's what a lot of people do.
		I should know I had a lot of complaints about printing on our webpage, if you recall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to tell people why that is and how they can cure it?
unidentified		Well, because we changed the background color to a black background on white because somebody I know prefers that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like the black background.
unidentified		Yeah, so I picked the color scheme that I had seen at another website and picked the colors in the background, and so it looks kind of nice.
		But when you print it on a color printer or a printer that wants to, you know, even if it's a black and white monochrome printer that wants to print approximately the colors, it wants to print all of the black letters on paper, and so sometimes you'll get an all-black page, and that's kind of a wasteful of ink.
		On the other hand, if a printer situation is set up that prints the text only and ignores the background, well, we have white letters on black background.
		When you print white letters on white paper in your printer, you don't see nothing, and that is the problem.
		They don't print the black background, but they print the white letters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there is a way to cure it, though.
unidentified		There is a couple ways to cure it.
		Microsoft Internet Explorer seems to be smart enough in most cases to ignore the white color and go ahead and print it in black, or you can configure it that way.
		In Netscape, there's some parameters in some of the setup that you can tell it to print alt text in black and ignore the colors.
		So I have a browser printing tips page on our website that goes through the step-by-step instructions on how to configure your browser to be able to print it correctly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		It's good to say that because I'm the same way.
		You know, I get a new little toy, handheld scanner, something like that, and I will sit there for at least two hours getting angry and frustrated that I can't do what I want to do before I pick up the manual and read.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a frequently asked questions page also up there that I'm constantly referring people to.
		It's a link at the bottom of every page, F-A-Q.
		And if they click on that, they can get a lot of answers about the website and real audio and transcripts and all the little statistical questions I get.
		You know, one thing you could do for me, my biggest complaint I get is the guest lineup.
		And I like you to tell them why I don't have a guest lineup for next week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The reason he doesn't is because I haven't given it to him because I don't know who's going to be on.
		Sometimes I know ahead of time who I'm going to schedule.
		A lot of times, I don't know until an hour before the program whether I'm going to have somebody on, whether I want to have somebody on.
		In other words, I don't know, so Keith can't know.
		And that also applies to a lot of things.
		In fact, even most of the things evolve on the website.
		For example, I'll get up in the evening, peruse my email, find something absolutely incredible, send it to Keith about 30 minutes before airtime, and he's in a scramble to get it up there just before airtime.
		I would say that occurs about 70% of the time, wouldn't you?
unidentified		Yes, if there's a phone call here between 10 and 11, it's generally you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And generally, you have been in a state where you stay up during the program.
unidentified		Well, yeah, my work schedule previous to even getting involved with the web page was working late into the night, as a lot of programmers like to do.
		And so that's how I picked up listening to you.
		And so it just kind of naturally developed and evolved over time.
		And so I'm up anyway.
		And now that we're doing the web page, I stay up the whole duration of the show the best I can.
		I now tape record the entire show on videotape.
		I have those instructions on the webpage so that if there's any particular excerpt or special call or special event that happens, I can go back through my tape recording and grab it and convert it to real audio and put it on the website.
		For example, the Area 51 call and when good old JC calls and things like that, it's kind of nice to go back and grab those segments and put them up on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		When we come back from the bottom of the hour, I have one more thing that I want to address that will keep us from having consistent headaches, and that is real audio.
		In other words, the archive programs or the ability to listen to the show live on the internet.
		A lot of people think that we are the ones who are in control of that, and I would like to tell the story so they know what's going on.
unidentified		I'll explain that when we get back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then we will take some calls for Keith Rowland.
		So if you have any questions for the master of the web, Keith Rowland, call now.
		I'm Art Bell, and from the high desert, you're listening to ZBC.
unidentified		ZBC.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, coming shortly, the FBI's favorite webmaster, Keith Rowland, from Mesa, Arizona, once again.
		If you have questions for Keith, come now.
		We're going to discuss real audio here in a moment and answer a few questions about that that will prevent endless email.
		Maybe, I thought.
		North American Trading, America's trusted name in private hard assets.
		You don't have to be rich to own gold, just smart.
		That's right.
		All right, back now to Keith Rowland and subject real audio, what's called real audio, which allows you to listen to my program live on the internet worldwide or even listen to archived shows.
		Now, there's a big misunderstanding about who provides real audio and why when something goes wrong, we can't respond to complaints.
unidentified		Keith?
		Hi there.
		Hi.
		Well, a couple, let's get some of the terminology, I guess, out of the way.
		Real audio is a software program that you can download into your web browser, your computer, and allow you to listen to streams of audio coming over your modem and listen to them on your sound card.
		Right.
		A company called AudioNet has taken that technology, purchased the server software, and have gone out and recruited different sources of material and provide them on the net.
		So they're like a big provider of programming.
		They use the real audio technology and they provide programming.
		And they've gone and recruited different radio stations from talk to country to rock and roll, put them on the net.
		They have special programs.
		They even have some internet-only programs that are available.
		So it's a really nice way to have access to programming all over the country and all over the world without having to be trying to tune it in on your radio.
		So what happened about, oh gosh, this must have been a year ago, several of the radio stations that you were carried on were also on the AudioNet system.
		And so if you went to the AudioNet site, you could listen to a certain radio station who was carrying you and we could hear you.
		So if you didn't have in your own town, you could pick it up that way.
		Well, as that popularity grew and grew, AudioNet decided, well, the bandwidth of the signals coming from these radio stations was just not high enough to handle the amount of users.
		And so probably six months ago, they decided to get their own satellite network feed and provide a direct Art Bell circuit right there on the AudioNet site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, it comes direct to Dallas, they're in Dallas, I believe, by satellite, and they couple it directly in.
unidentified		Exactly.
		They put it right on their server and right through the internet from the network feed rather than going to a particular server or through a particular radio station.
		They also increased the bandwidth and dedicated some servers just for us because, as it turns out, I think the Art Bell program is the number one listen-to-AudioNet program on their whole system.
		And the arrangement is, for those who don't know, is AudioNet does that free of charge to us and we don't pay them for the service and they don't pay us for the programming.
		A lot of the things on the Internet is kind of a share and share alike type situation.
		They will take the programming and put it on the internet for us and we have that ability to spread your program to people that don't get it.
		In return, they have a business to operate and they want to sell advertising on their website and they'll generate their revenue through people visiting their website and looking at their ads and so on.
		And then on our website, which is also sponsor-driven and is paid for solely by the advertising on the webpage, we want people to come to our webpage and look at our ads.
		Now, arrangement that we have with AudioNet is such that we don't have or agreed not to have a direct link to the actual feed itself.
		We've agreed to have our page link to their page, and then once you're on their page, you can then link and look and listen to a show in the archive or the real feed.
		In turn, they don't put descriptions of all the programs on their page.
		People have to come back to our page to look at the descriptions to figure out which program you want to look at.
		So we kind of have a webmaster's agreement that we're letting people go to both websites and we're maximizing the exposure of both websites.
		So we're helping each other out.
		It's a great arrangement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I really am thankful for what they do.
unidentified		It's very amazing that they can do what they do and provide that service for the people on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, occasionally, with all technical things, and this is a brand new technology, they will, for some reason or another, miss a program or a part of a program or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when that happens, it's like the world comes crashing in on you, I know, and certainly on me, email-wise, and they say, how can you let this happen?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, there's a crew of people that work at AudioNet throughout the night that are in charge of taking care of the program.
		But from time to time, various glitches do occur.
		I'm sure people have had their computers hang and crash in the past themselves.
		So the same is true in big-time Internet servers.
		They do have their glitches from time to time, too.
		And occasionally somebody will either forget to throw the switch or a hard drive might crash or the hard drive filled up in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Such is the nature of computer.
unidentified		A variety of things that happen.
		And it's strictly an honest mistake that will happen from time to time.
		And considering the number of programs that do get done correctly, I think the number of mistakes are rather small and they should be commended for what they are doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I've also noticed that whenever a program is missed, everybody who writes email accuses either AudioNet or us of intentionally, conspiratorially, eliminating a specific program because of some nefarious reason.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm here to say that I have not received any FBI letters to tell us to remove a certain AudioNet program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, there's a bunch of people who would like to ask you.
unidentified		I want to say one thing before we get to the phones.
		I want to thank everybody who provides the material for the web page.
		I could not do this all myself.
		I have lots of people out there who are scavenging around the internet and find a lot of these links and web pages and send them to me, and then I review them and put them up on the site.
		I have a lot of people send us images and pictures, as you know, and we get them and put them up on the website.
		And so there's a lot of work being done by the listeners out there who are finding a lot of these things and provide them to me.
		And so I just have to, I can't respond to every one of them in email, but I hope they appreciate the fact that I do appreciate that they're doing that, and I do put the information up on the site when I can.
		You know, we've got some great logos that people have submitted in.
		We've got some great artwork up on the page, and the cat pictures, it's just great stuff, and the listeners are just really risking one and all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They also seem to favor the Darwin Award page heavily.
unidentified		That seems to be a popular one, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's take some listener questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time call our line, you're on the air with Keith Rowland in Mesa, Arizona.
unidentified		Yes, thank you.
		Thank you for taking my call, Art.
		Hi, Keith.
		Hello there.
		I have a quick question.
		I emailed you about a month ago.
		I'm a regular visitor to the Art Bell website, and I wanted to make use of his chat rooms, but you need a password, and I need to get it from you.
		And then I recently emailed you again to get password requests, and haven't heard back from you yet.
		Okay, this is a problem that comes up from time to time.
		Right now, we have our bulletin board system and our chat rooms are by registration only.
		It is a free registration.
		It's just that we want to know who you are and an email address to contact you.
		And that goes into the little database and we save that.
		We have a little form on the web page that you just fill out and put in your name and email address and click it and it emails it directly to me.
		Now I will take that name and I'll register it and then I have to send back through email your password that I assign you.
		If by any chance that the email address you've given me is bad, wrong, goes to the wrong place, I can't contact it, then I can never get back in touch with you to give you that password.
		And then you'll come along a couple weeks later and send me another request and I'll say, okay, fine.
		I go into there.
		I'll look you up.
		I say, oh, you're already registered.
		I'll try to send you back another note saying you're already registered or somebody else has your same name.
		You may have registered before, but your email address was bad and I could not get in touch with you.
		But I have processed all, I generally try to process all of the registrations every day.
		And so if you don't hear anything back in a day or two, double check your return address that you're entering in and make sure it's a working address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And again, the reason we have a registration system is because in chat rooms, people already know it.
		There is a small group of people, like in a classroom when you're a kid.
		One kid can disrupt an entire class.
		And we try to keep the language relatively clean.
		And anything goes pretty much, but we don't want people intentionally disrupting an otherwise intelligent chat.
		Is that about right?
unidentified		That's about right.
		There are plenty of other places on the internet that you can be totally anonymous and say whatever you want.
		There's the Usenet system that you can post anything you want.
		There's IRC that's pretty much open to anything you want to do.
		So what we're trying to do is establish a separate section on the web page that not be afraid of getting attacked or having bad language on the bulletin board.
		And also in the chat rooms, if people are personally attacking people or being nasty or using bad language, we want to be able to eject them from the system and they're not welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But simply, we're trying to make it a reflection of what we do on the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much.
unidentified		Now, a lot of people will say, well, Pri Department lets anything go on the air, and then why don't you let anything go?
		And I tell them, that's correct.
		Nobody's going to get on the radio and just start personally cutting down somebody or starting throwing around swear words or going ad nauseum as one topic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		There is some filtering that goes on.
unidentified		And so it's just, you know, it's just simply mind your manners and you're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all.
		That's it.
		Good.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Yeah, this is Wayne and Austin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Wayne.
unidentified		Hi, Art and Keith.
		I just wanted to say that I visit the website almost every day, and I wanted to thank Keith for putting the link up for the Austin chat club.
		If anybody wants to attend our next meeting, they can go to that link and click on it and find out when our next meeting is, or if they're in the Austin area, they can call 603Chat.
		I wanted to mention that I happen to have WebTV myself, and I have a 52-inch color TV, so it's pretty convenient for that.
		And being a programmer, I can verify that they did a really outstanding job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, they really did.
		I mean, it's just amazing how good Web TV is.
		All right.
		Well, thank you very much, and I appreciate the call.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm going to hide from Maryland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to speak into your phone good and loud for us.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
		Okay, I just want to say, Keith, you do a great job.
		I love how you keep the web page up.
		Well, thank you very much.
		I don't claim to be the most artful webmaster in the world, pun intended, but I'm there, and I try to keep it updated the best I can.
		I try to keep it simple and easy to get around in.
		And I also try to make sure that even people with lesser capable browsers can still get to the information and be able to view the website.
		I try not to put a whole lot of bells and whistles on there just for the sake of bells and whistles.
		And I get a lot of email that people appreciate that.
		And we have to make it fast to load.
		We have a lot of users, so we don't try to waste a whole bunch of bandwidth on needless fancy stuff.
		But we try to make it practical and easy to get around as we can.
		Right.
		So it's pretty much up today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Thank you very much.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Roland.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have a question for Keith about the chat rooms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		A lot of people I know that were in the old parachat rooms were sort of complaining about you putting a password system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we just covered that.
		I'm glad we have done it.
		This is art saying that.
unidentified		Because we had intended all along when we first to have it be a registered system.
		It's just that the Parachat software was very costly to do that, and we found an alternative one, but it was always intended to do that.
		I mean, the BBS system went on the website, and it was a registered system.
		You know, if we had a lot of trouble in the Parachat room, you may not have seen it, but I would say on a daily basis, we had people coming in there and being vulgar and attacking people.
		And that's just something that we don't want in our chat room.
		And there's plenty of other chat rooms on the internet to go to that you can do that.
		This one is just not going to be one of them.
		Now, when you register for the chat room, only I know your name and your email address.
		You can still go into the chat room.
		You pick whatever alias name you want, whatever nickname you want, and nobody can figure out who you are.
		In fact, you can't even track down their IP address like you could with Parachat.
		So our room is, in fact, more anonymous than the Parachat system, yet I have the ability to kick out any troublemakers, and that's what I want to do.
		You know, again, you mind your manners.
		You're welcome to come in there as often as you want.
		Well, unfortunately, while you are sort of separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were, a lot of the wheat went with the chaff.
		And some people have sort of accused of being a quote-unquote fascist.
		And those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, they accuse me of being fascist, too.
		That's the way it is.
		Look, I'm no Howard Stern.
		I don't want that kind of material on the air, and I don't think that kind of material has to be on the air for the show to be popular.
		In fact, I have now proven that.
		And it's exactly the same in the chat rooms.
		There can be conversations.
		It can be hot and lively without using vulgar language.
		And we intend for it to be a place like that.
		And you can call it fascism if you want.
		But as Keith pointed out, you can go to lots of Usenet locations and be as vulgar as you want.
		But you're not going to be doing it in our chat rooms, right, Keith?
unidentified		That's pretty much it.
		Now, if I have mistakenly banned someone from the room who was misrepresented somehow, I would certainly listen to any argument and reinstate somebody.
		Generally, when people use different names and come and impersonate other people, sometimes you mistake people.
		And so there's a lot of people in there.
		And so I apologize if somebody got booted out that wasn't worthy of that, but I'll try to make amends where I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that like the argument against the death penalty?
unidentified		Let's have a stay of execution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Keith Rowland.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Adam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Adam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And tell us where you are.
unidentified		Orange County.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Orange County.
unidentified		All right.
		I also have a web creation company with my friends.
		And we make sites and stuff.
		And the printing problem, I have a solution to that.
		What you can just do is highlight the text and just copy and paste it into a notepad and just print it out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Copy and paste into a word.
unidentified		Highlight the text.
		Yeah, you should highlight the text.
		Yeah, copy.
		Yeah, you can anything that's on your web browser screen, you can highlight it with your mouse and cut or copy and then call up any one of your favorite editors or word processing programs, paste it in it, and then use that program to print it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It takes a little more knowing.
unidentified		A little more to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Dan, the webmaster of the Chat Club in Denver.
		Yes.
		And I just want to say I really appreciate Keith and what he's done.
		Hi, Dan.
		It's first time we've spoken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		A lot of email between us, but good to hear you.
		Yeah, good to talk to you.
		Quite a job you're doing.
		I really like your website.
		We just recently put a chat club page up on our website to start listing all the chat clubs that will be forming.
		And Dan started up the original Denver chat club page and gathered some of the information.
		And so now we've decided that we'll give him a home on our page, and he can send us the information regarding the different chat clubs.
		And he can concentrate on the stuff that's happening in Denver.
		And all the other webmasters can concentrate on what's happening in their different cities.
		And you'll be able to branch off to all these different chat clubs and see what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's gone crackers.
unidentified		Right.
		We're getting a lot of email and a lot of mail and a lot of calls.
		A lot of people are setting up chat clubs around the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing.
unidentified		And it's a lot of inquiries from outside the country, too.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very, very much.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hello, Art Bill.
		How are you today?
		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Medina County, Ohio.
unidentified		That's Chippewa Lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Keith, how are you doing?
		Very good.
		Boy, it's wonderful to get through.
		I can't hardly believe that.
		All right.
		I'm listening, and I hear about this Web TV.
		I'm concerned.
		I'm interested in the applications of this, what do you call it, the Rio Talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Web TV, or at least the one I am marketing, gives you real audio.
unidentified		Rio audio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real audio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you can receive my program.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Now, can you do that on the Web TV?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what I just said.
unidentified		Okay, now if you did that on Web TV, then you could take that down, you could download that or EVR then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Record your programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Oh, boy, that's interesting.
		That's very interesting.
		I think somebody told me that if you are not touching any keys in the keyboard or something after a certain period of time, it may time out on you, and so you might have to occasionally do something on the unit.
		But pretty much, it calls up a little real audio window and can access the page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, we're coming to the top of the hour.
		You really ought to give us 30 more minutes for calls because these people really want to talk to you.
		Okay, your call.
		Let's see if we can do a fast one.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, I want to ask about the malfunction with the real audio server.
unidentified		You touched on it earlier, but I noticed that last November when you were talking about Hail Bob, the whole month went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, here we go.
unidentified		Okay, well, that is a really quick answer.
		The hard drive that contained those particular programs crashed.
		They did not have a backup, and they could not recover them.
		Well, can I ask, Art, do you back up any of your shows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we back up all of the shows, sir, and you can get them on tape, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We give out an order number for that, so you can still get any of those November shows on tape.
unidentified		Okay, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		All right, Keith Rowland is my guest.
		We're talking about the website.
		We'll be right back.
		AM 1500.
unidentified		Call our bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		My guest is my webmaster, Keith Rowland, the FBI's favorite webmaster.
		If you have any questions about the internet, specifically our website, or computers in general, he's your guy, Keith Rowland, back in a moment.
		4627.
		End the pain now.
		And by the way, tell him, Art Bell told you to call.
		1-800-557-4627.
		All right, here is a quick message or question for Keith by email.
		Art, I have a suggestion for Keith with regard to an addition to the website.
		Though I do not know exactly how you'd feel about it, Art, I think it'd be great if you would allow a real-time feel of a video image that would refresh at three to four minutes.
		The image could include your studio and allow those of us who are curious to see just how you do what you do.
		And that's a good question.
		Keith, what's going on?
unidentified		Yeah, well, we've been talking about that for several months now, haven't we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, we want to do that.
		There's several things that had to come into play before we could do that.
		We needed to have our web server increased in bandwidth capability, which we've done.
		We needed to get your phone connection in perump improved to the point where it was reliable.
		And the last step is just to find the appropriate piece of software to run over there at your computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		To continuously send images up to our web server, and then we'll be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, that would mean people would be able to go up to the website and see a picture that would be...
unidentified		Sure, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		So it is in the works, folks.
unidentified		We're just a little slow, getting some other things going first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Roland.
		Hi.
		Hi.
unidentified		I have two questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		Orange County.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		First question, what HTML editor do you use on your page?
unidentified		I use Hot Metal Pro.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
unidentified		Well, I don't have too many complaints.
unidentified		Well, you can get front pages like 57 times better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, everybody's...
unidentified		You can make your web page look whatever you want to look like using whatever editor you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, computer people.
unidentified		What other questions do you have?
unidentified		None.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East to the Rockies.
		Yeah, that's right.
		Just like in the Japanese.
		East to the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Worldwood.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
		Keith, I was just wondering, as far as computer technology has increased, how much farther do you think it will continue to increase?
		Ooh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much farther do you think computer technology will increase?
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you, you know, when I had my four megahertz PC, I thought we'll never have a 100 megahertz chip, so I don't know.
		It's going to keep going, I suppose.
		I keep saying that the hardware is more than capable of doing the job, and it's a matter of writing appropriate software.
		Even a couple years ago, when Pentium 75s and Pentium 100s were coming out, the hardware was plenty up for the chore.
		We needed to get some people to write some good software.
		And I think now that the platforms are well, that we'll get some inventive people to write some nifty software.
		And we've seen some of that stuff on the internet with the video, telephone stuff, things like that.
		So it's all in the creativity of the software that really makes the computers play.
		And I think the hardware is more than up for the job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time calling line.
		You're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Keith.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I'm looking forward to seeing the video update.
		That'll be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Orleans.
unidentified		And in fact, you might have heard about the Bourbon Street camera we have down here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I have that bookmarked and check it out all the time.
		My question is about recording off of real audio.
		In fact, I've got it up and running now, and it streams great.
		It sounds wonderful, but it won't let me record.
		There's recently, as of maybe a week ago or a few days ago, somebody gave me some instructions on how you can do it, and it's up on the webpage.
		Oh, that's been a you basically bring up the player and then if you have the encoder, you can encode it back onto your local hard drive.
		Oh.
		And so you're using the player to play it and then their encoder to record it back on your hard drive in a real audio format.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		I'll check it out.
unidentified		Click stream to stream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		That was a good question.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Chief Roland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Carrie from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Carrie.
unidentified		I need to know how I can get in on the chat line because I go to the library to use their computer because my computers are dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-oh.
unidentified		And I don't have an email address anymore.
		And I realize that you guys are asking for one, but what about us people who don't have a computer and we'd like to get in the chat rooms too?
		Yeah, I don't have a fast answer for that, and I understand the situation.
		Can't you make a page, like, say, put in your address and phone number and all that, and you'll either snail mail a signal?
		That may be what I could do.
		The trick is getting the password back to you.
		I suppose, I don't know if you have a fax number or something like that.
		It's a very tight.
		Not unless I use my kids' school time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, if people want to do that, then they could send you a self-addressed stamped envelope.
unidentified		Hey, there we go.
		That would work.
		That would work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then why don't we do that?
unidentified		That would solve all the problems because then I would have an address for them and I know how to get in touch with them and I can send them back a password.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's enough.
		Good idea.
		So can you put up an address they can send that to?
		Sure.
		Okay, good.
unidentified		Good idea.
unidentified		I'll make a note.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
		I have a quick question for you.
		Sure.
		Your real-life, not audio, but video?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		With MMX technology and a computer sneaker coming out here, is that going to be something in the future that you might be getting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we just addressed that.
		We're working on that.
		How far do you think we might be from that, Keith?
unidentified		It's a matter of just cleaning some projects off the table here and doing some research into the software.
		Let me just specify, tell everybody what I'm looking for, and somebody can probably send me an email tonight and tell me where to find it.
		What we need is a piece of software that will run on Art's Windows 95 machine that will just snap an image, grab an image and save it to a GIF file or a JPEG and upload it to a site, through FTP or some kind of a connection to our website, and just have it sit there and like every 30 seconds grab an image and upload it, grab an image and upload it.
		And then what we'll do on the website is have a page that when you go to it, it will grab the latest image and display it on your screen.
		And then if you want an update, you click it again and you'll get an update.
		You click it again, you get an update.
		And that is the best way to save bandwidth because a lot of these technologies, you can get nice, wonderful streaming audio like those internet cams that come out there and you click on them and you've got this continuous data feed of video.
		And that's wonderful when you've only got three or four people going to a particular site and looking at a camera.
		But as you know, with the popularity of our website, when we say we have real live video on the site and 20,000 people go to the site to look at it, it's just going to suck all the bandwidth out of the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boom.
unidentified		Right.
		So we have to think up a practical way of doing it that doesn't consume a lot of bandwidth and is still kind of nice to see.
		We're looking for some software to reside there at your end to upload it to the site because you're in Prompt, the web server's in Phoenix, I'm in Mesa, so it all has to work over the Internet and not tie up too much bandwidth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what you need is a piece of software that will accomplish that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If somebody out there has it, they could email you.
unidentified		Just contact me through the webpage and let me know where it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give out your email address.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it's linked on the webpage, but it's Keith R. K-E-I-T-H-R at primenet.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keith R at primenet.com.
unidentified		Right.
		And matter of fact, if you sent something to webmaster at artbell.com, it would get to me too, but that takes an extra step to get here.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wells for the Rockies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Keith Roland.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art and Keith.
		This is Matt in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, I have a few websites that I've built over the last few months.
		I didn't know anything about it until last November.
		And I started doing it.
		And I'd recommend it to any of your listeners who have anything to share with the world, any kind of information, any kind of thing they want to put up on a website, some information they'd like to share.
		Just for the sheer fact that it really helps to learn how to manipulate all the files, to use a program manager, to rename things, just knowing the little bits helped me feel a lot more comfortable about doing things on my computer, just building the site, which I thought was pretty fun.
		I find myself spending quite a bit of time building websites now.
		I've done quite a few.
		I've even sponsored one of my sites on your page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
		Well, it's a steep learning curve.
		There's no question about that.
		In fact, computers, period, represent a very steep learning curve when you jump into them for the first time.
		So when you begin jumping into the world of website creation, Keith, is it going to get easier to create websites?
		I mean, right now, you've got to deal with all kinds of HTML code and all this sorts of things.
unidentified		There are some good software programs out there that are what's called WYSIWYG, where you can just come up with a screen and you can drop an image on it and write some text and move things around and draw some boxes and things like that, and it'll automatically generate the HTML for you.
		And you can upload it to a site.
		So it is getting easier and easier because the software is getting better and better.
		The tricky part is having that software create HTML that works with all of the browsers.
		And we still have a little war going on between Microsoft and Netscape, and there's still some incompatibilities between them.
		So things get tricky when you try to do a website that's compatible with the most amount of people.
		You have to watch all the little details.
		And some of these editors might not handle it that well.
		And so the lower level you go in writing HTML, the more compatibility you can get.
		But you can put up a web page with a fairly simple program and get it published.
		It may not be all that complicated, but it can be done.
		And it's not going to be any more complex than calling up a nice word processor and type of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all good.
		The other thing is we are always staying on the very cutting edge, I like to think, on this program and on the website.
		So we're always exploring new territory.
		And sometimes things go right and sometimes they don't.
		That's the way life is.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keys Rowland.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have two questions.
		Within the Netscape browser, can you, with the Web TV use PointCast Network to get a constant, consistent download of news, sports, and weather items with the Web TV?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you that, yes.
unidentified		Oh, no problem.
		Okay, number two: I'm a blind person and I can't see.
		Is there any kind of system that the Web TV has to turn text into voice synthesis?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is a good question, and I'm not sure of the answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know Keith?
unidentified		I have a lot of blind people that are using text-based web browsers.
		One in particular is called Lynx, and they appreciate the fact that my web page is well compatible with that.
		So they'll have their normal text-to-speech processor on their computer, and they can go to the website and browse through there and read all the material, and it's very compatible for them.
		So it can be done if the web page is done right, and I choose to make sure that it is done right to handle that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		West for the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Keith Rowland.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, Keith is still on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he is.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		I just wanted to update on Bob Dylan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you'll have to call after Keith is off.
		The update is he's, as far as I know, he's still alive.
		It is a fungal infection, not a virus.
		But as far as I know, he is still alive.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, all right, Bill.
		I've been trying to get you for eight weeks, day and night.
		Well, I just need you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, you'll have to call, I'm afraid, after Keith is off, which will be about 10 minutes.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with another eight weeks.
		Yeah, that's right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I had an answer, first of all, for the guest that called regarding getting a hold of a password, although she doesn't have an email account.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		There are a couple of free email sites on the web.
unidentified		It's a web interface to pick up your mail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but see.
unidentified		Let me explain that one.
		The problem with that is right now is that anybody can go to those and use any name they want and get their mail.
		And then when they can register with our system, abuse it all they want, we boot off them.
		They can go back to one of these email services, use a different name, get a different address, and register again, and they can just keep irritating and irritating and irritating me, and there's no security in that method.
		So currently, I'm not allowing email addresses that are aliased like that because basically you don't have to be a real person when you join them.
		So in fact, we don't know who you are either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, we want this to be a place regarding the chat rooms and the BBS and the site itself where families can go, where children even can go without having to see and hear a lot of things that are elsewhere on the web.
unidentified		If there's too much smut and bad sites out there now, it would be nice to have a place where you don't have to be afraid to go to the ArtVille website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Keith Rowland.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, first time caller.
		Well, I have a question about email security.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you?
unidentified		Evansville, Indiana, and I think we just recently signed up with you.
		Oh, okay.
		And I wondered, how secure is it for users?
		As far as I had posted to a newsgroup, and in the process of copy text, doing the text, they appeared to have changed my email defaults.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
unidentified		I'm not sure I understand the problem now.
		Well, I thought with that, see, I'm a Web TV user, and I've been very happy with the system.
		Now I can exactly figure out what happened.
		And when I was asking various hacker buddies, they had said that email of itself was not necessarily secure, and that if someone could, say, figure out your code in general, they could even go into your email and check it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It's a good question.
		Security on the net as...
unidentified		She mentioned Usenet, the news groups, and that's separate from email.
		But when you set up your email program and you set up your newsreader program, you program your name and your address in it.
		And so anybody can program any name and any address into their email program and into their newsreader program and go to these news sites or send email to people and actually look like there's somebody else.
		But generally buried in the information and the tracking header information that comes along with a piece of email, you can kind of backtrack and figure out where it came from.
		But there's a lot of impersonations that can go on.
		And now if you post something to a newsgroup, somebody can get your email address and then go and use that and post on the same newsgroup and impersonate you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been done to me countless times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am impersonated in chat rooms, email messages, Usenet messages, and the same thing has occurred to you, hasn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, it runs amok.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Keith, I want to thank you publicly for all you do because you're there.
		You know, it's a kind of a symbiotic relationship between the radio program and the website.
		And that's only possible because of your constant, unrelenting attention so that when we get something, we can instantly get it up there for zillions of people to see.
		And I really do want to thank you for that.
unidentified		Well, you're very welcome.
		It's a pleasure to do it.
		It's a pleasure to work with you.
		I think we get along just fine.
		And it's been real nice being able to do that.
		And it does work together real well on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for coming and answering many questions that many have been answering.
unidentified		Asking.
unidentified		All right, I'm sure I'll be talking to you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Keith.
unidentified		Okay, good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Keith Rowland.
		He's my webmaster.
		And let me tell you, we just answered a lot of questions for a lot of people and probably created others.
		Anyway, there it is.
		He's the guy who does what he does, that magic up on the net.

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