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May 27, 1997 - Art Bell

02:51:08

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Rosalie Osias

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rosalie osias

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across this great land, stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole worldwide on the internet.
		About every corner covered there.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell, and I've got a surprise for you coming up in a moment, as if I'm not nearly always full of them.
		A lot to do this morning.
		First of all, I would like to welcome some new radio stations.
		WRECAM in Memphis, Tennessee.
		That's AM 600 5,000 big ones covering a whole wide area down around Memphis.
unidentified		Welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And WBEN.
		That's WBEN.
		Now, there's an old set of call letters from Buffalo, New York.
		Great to be on board with you again, covering a wide swath around Buffalo and that part of New York.
		Glad to have you on board as well.
		So, what a good beginning, huh?
		In a moment, a Rosalie Esias.
unidentified		Now, you're probably going, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's Rosalie Esias?
		Well, I hope you're buckled in.
		When you find out, you're going to need to be buckled in.
		This is going to be fun.
		It relates to the Supreme Court decision in some ways.
		In some ways, it does not.
		Actually, it does.
		Well, we'll decide as we go along what the hell.
		Beijing is a radio that, well, first of all, you know what?
		I better cover the serious news.
		At least 32 people have been killed by a string of powerful tornadoes and thunderstorms that literally ripped through central Texas, tossing vehicles into the air like toys, like in the movies, destroying businesses and homes by the dozen.
		Police said the deadliest tornado killed at least 30 people when it literally obliterated homes in the small Williamson County town of Jarrell, about 40 miles north of Austin.
		We are heard widely in that area.
		Stunned rescue teams said the death toll could rise higher during the night.
		Rescue workers tried to find victims and survivors in the rubble of at least 50 homes and trailer homes flattened by that tornado, which was at least, get this folks, 200 yards wide, at least six tornadoes were reported across four counties.
		That is the lead story and not a surprise.
		We have been talking in recent days about the more violent weather, and it is yet another example of it, and one of the things covered in my book.
		And I'm just going to, I'm not going to have time to plug my book tonight, except to tell you it's called The Quickening.
		It is the second printing, the first printing.
		I've never seen an entire first printing sell out in two weeks, but ours did.
		Ours did.
		It was gone.
		And the second printing is here.
		It's still a first edition, and you can still get an autographed copy of my book.
		However, how long that will be going on, I cannot at this moment tell you.
		not long i suspect uh...
unidentified		at this rate You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, to lead into Rosalie, here is an item that really is going to do that for us.
		The U.S. Supreme Court decision to allow a sexual harassment lawsuit against President Clinton to go ahead immediately, and it was 9-0, by the way, cast a paw over what was intended to be a week of triumph for the White House.
		The signing of a historic security framework for Europe in Paris Tuesday is now under the poll, a poll cast by the decision of the Supreme Court to allow Apollo Jones to go ahead and go get the president in court.
		Now, for sexual, well, sexual harassment, I guess.
		Now, that's where my guest enters the scene in her own way.
		Rosalie Osias is president of the Osias Foundation.
		She has become the woman that women love to hate.
		Believe me not, men, you should see her photograph.
		Good heavens, we're going to have to arrange that.
		She's gorgeous.
		And yet, all she wanted to do was talk about, get this, folks, using sex in the workplace for career advancement totally destroying the glass ceiling sending executives probably flying through it over the last year Oscias has confronted the feminist movement over what she believes is the hypocrisy of its leadership
		Angry over their studied indifference regarding the role of sex and sexuality in the workplace, she has debated, lectured, written, and even broadcast this issue until, get this, WOR radio in New York, candor fired her over materials too graphic for even WOR.
		She counsels that being gender blind in the office doesn't mean you shouldn't flash thigh or cleavage to move ahead.
		So as you might imagine, she has created anger, stunned silence, grudging respect as she denounces feminists as those who have stripped femininity from the workplace.
		Boy, is she right about that.
		While she creates provocative advertisements for her law firm that celebrates sex appeal in business.
		Not content to face down the bar association with her hints of censure.
		Now I can imagine they wouldn't like it.
		Osaya says, now take into the lecture circuit, debating her philosophy before combative students and lawyers and probably talk show listeners.
		Within the last year, she's created a not-for-profit foundation whose purpose is to assault the male establishment and the seething feminist movement who see her use of sex in the workplace as counter-revolutionary.
		Ha ha ha ha.
		Despite the hostility and the occasional boycott stage by some feminists, she says, her message continues to find a responsive court.
		Quote, typically, men have created a business attire for women at work that would strip us, no pun intended, of our femininity.
		A powerful weapon in breaking through the glass ceiling.
		Yeah, here we go.
		Worse, the so-called feminist leadership has brought into it becoming the quizlings of the 90s.
		Says she's proud of the epitaphs that have been thrown at her by other women, including hard, ruthless, mean-spirited, aggressive, ambitious, calculating, and I bet she's been called a bitch one time or two, haven't you?
		Rosalie, hello.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody ever call you a bitch?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		A few times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Here and there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I bet.
		This is a completely, totally backward point of view from what is considered to be politically correct today.
		Yes?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		But you know something?
		It's a realistic point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're right.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm successful, and it has worked for me, and it would work for other women if they tried it.
		Instead of conforming to male standards that were created by men for men, women have to be women.
		They have to be bright.
		They have to be educated.
		They have to have an expertise in whatever they want.
		But they need to look like women, and they need to use something inherent that they're born with, which is their sexuality.
		Sex sells.
		It always does.
		It works very well in manipulating men all throughout our lives until we get into the workplace.
		and that's when we leave everything outside the corporate door and we decide that we're going to look like men and act like men and by God if you know we walk in there with our shirts and ties and jackets we're going to be respected like men and judged on the same basis.
		That's garbage.
		We're not judged the same way.
		Women are judged very differently.
		And when you don't look like a woman, you bland in with the wallpaper because men have a brotherhood.
		They mentor each other.
		They take each other by the hand.
		They bring them up that corporate ladder.
		And women do not get that same response from that male employer.
		And by God, he's going to be a male employer, not a female.
		And so women have to get some sort of recognition early on in their career and accelerate the fact that they're there and they're smart and they can do the work.
		And the only way really to catch a man's attention is by being sexual and using it as a weapon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it works.
unidentified		It does work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this.
		If you had had an opportunity to counsel Paula prior to her encounter with the president, no matter what happened, prior to her encounter or right after?
		No, no, no, no, prior to her encounter.
		I mean, now, remember, she is allegedly going up to a hotel room at the invite of the president of the U.S. She is an employee of the state of Arkansas, right?
		All right.
		So here we have a classic case of big boss, little employee, a clear invitation to sexual occurrences.
		So if you'd had a chance to interview her prior to her visit to The Suite, what would you have said?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What I would have said was, what a tremendous opportunity you're getting.
		I would go right up there and I would send everybody out and I would stay with Bill behind closed doors.
		and no one's going to know what i'm doing behind those closed doors but when i walk out of that room Well, let's just say he would have owed me a lot, and I would have gotten much more out of that deal than just a lot of lawsuits and a lot of press because what she really did was she's not going to really get anything from it.
		And more importantly than that, what she's sending a message out to the world is don't hire women, don't get them into the workplace, don't move them up because the minute you look at them the wrong way, the minute you touch them the wrong way, the minute you say something that doesn't sound right, you're going to have a lawsuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's saying she wants her reputation back.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What happened to her reputation?
		Did it go away somewhere?
		I mean, where did it go?
		You know, a woman, women are very smart.
		And women have their reputations, and women have their attitudes, and women have their smarts.
		And I don't know how one loses one's reputation.
		It's beyond me.
		If I had the opportunity to be with a governor of a state, I certainly wouldn't think that I had lost my reputation.
		I mean, after all, Bill is a man.
		And like all other men, he's going to, if he has an opportunity, he's going to try and do whatever he feels like doing.
		And that's the way it works, even in the workplace.
		Men are just like that.
		And women know that.
		And women dress for that.
		And women buy billions of dollars in cosmetics for it and spend millions of dollars for their hair.
		There's a reason why all these enterprises make billions of dollars because women play into that.
		Unfortunately, they don't play into it in the right places where they can get the profit from it, where they can get the economic advantage, where they can get that corporate corner office.
		That's the only place where women don't make it work for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So feminism really removes the most powerful weapon that a woman has.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, feminism, you know, 30 years ago, the feminist movement did a wonderful thing.
		It told women, you know something, you're as smart as guys, and you can do anything you want, and you can get any position you want, and you can be anything you want.
		And that's where they left us.
		And they told us, well, you know, just go march in and look like men.
		And if that happens, and you have your JD in your hand, or if you have your BA or your BS or whatever it is that you want to do, you're going to be judged on the merits and you're going to get the same respect as men.
		It didn't happen.
		It's never going to happen.
		And yes, sexuality is a woman's inherent, wonderful asset.
		And women do need that extra weapon to make it in the world.
		There is no doubt about it.
		We're not just going to make it with what we know and how we speak.
		I'm an attorney.
		I wanted to represent leading banks in New York State.
		I couldn't get an appointment with anybody.
		I'm very smart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're also a very good lawyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're beautiful.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know something?
		No one knew I was beautiful.
		And I'm knocking on doors and I'm calling and no one is giving me that appointment.
		And what I started doing was advertising in a provocative way as an attorney.
		Why?
		Because bankers are all men.
		Women don't own banks.
		And my target were men.
		I wanted those men to stop and look and say, what is this?
unidentified		So where did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go to journals and so forth that go right in, you know, that they trade.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Trade magazines, exactly, that bankers all read.
		And I took out full-page ads.
		And I got the immediate attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And not only did I get the immediate attention of those bankers, I got the appointments at the next convention.
		Those bankers wanted to meet me.
		I didn't have to go knocking on their doors.
		And I represent 40 banks.
		I could represent more than 40 banks if I wanted to right now.
		So I generated the interest and I generated that income from the provocative advertisements.
		I lured, you know, I targeted that male desire for sexuality, a very normal desire.
		i kept the business though because i'm good because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how you At the end of the day, you've got to be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		You can deliver, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		People want to make money.
		They don't care.
		You know, sexuality can open the door for you.
		It gives you the window of opportunity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so in a way, this got your thigh in the door.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a way, this got your thigh in the door.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		But then you've got to deliver good work.
		And women, really, have to deliver work that's much better than men in order to keep that clientele.
		And they're still with me.
		So, you know, to all the women that say, no, I'm not going to put myself out there in the meat market.
		I want to be judged on my brain, on my merit, on who I am, on what I do, that's great.
		But who's going to know who you are and what you do and what you can't do and how great you are?
		No one's going to know it.
		Because by renting a room in a suite or by renting a storefront and opening a business or by walking into a law firm that has 500 male associates, you're not going to make it.
		No one is going to deal with you.
		You're going to sit at the very bottom and make ends meet.
		You've got to accelerate your recognition immediately.
		And the only way you can really do that is through your sexuality, because that's the only thing that you've got that the men don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if it had been you who had been going to meet Bill Clinton by now, you would be Secretary of State or probably ambassador to the country of your choice?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I would have been doing something very important, absolutely.
		Because, you know, the whole idea, I assume, by women yelling and ranting and raving and fighting is that we want economic equality and we want financial equality and we want that same power.
		Well, women have to have a strategy, a game plan, just like men.
		Men have that game plan, except that men have each other to bring them up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Rosalie, hold on.
		We've got plenty of time.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and we will be back.
		Does anybody detect unreality here?
unidentified		Uh-uh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the real thing.
		You know what, when you're hearing it, listen carefully.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 27.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 27.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and my guest is Rosalie Osias.
		And we are frantically searching for a place on the web right now, the World Wide Web, where we can get a photograph of Rosalie and get a link to it on our site.
		So we are frantically working on that.
		Anybody out there can help us.
		She's been associated with Nexis Lexis.
		And if you can find a link to a photograph of Rosalie, it's worth getting it up there.
		This woman is a knockout.
		And she knows how to use it.
unidentified		and she'll be right back You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		Music All right, back now to Rosalie Osias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, I have the first blistering facts in already, which says, Art, I'll bet this woman has never been raped, or she wouldn't have such a perspective.
		Now, how do you address that?
		Comes from a guy, by the way, Dave in San Francisco.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, rape is rape, and obviously I would kill any man that rapes a woman.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That is a crime, and that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, but they'll view it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They'll say, there she is, slashing thigh and giving cleavage, and it's going to lead these men down the temptation to that horrible crime.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, do you notice that there isn't any rape going on in the world today?
		I mean, there's rape going on every single day, and there's domestic abuse going on every single day, and we're running around having parties to build more shelters for women to run to in the middle of the night with their children.
		So I don't see that by not using your sexuality or by conforming to some male standard of dress and way about you that we've done anything greater in the world in the last 30 years.
		Actually, I think it's gotten worse than it ever has.
		So what I'm advocating is for women to finally really take their lives in their hands, truly and really and honestly, and look at themselves and realize that we've moved nowhere except downwards.
		And that's where men would like to keep us, is downwards.
		That's where we're the best.
		And take our lives in our hands and finally use something that we do have and we've been using on our fathers from the time we're little girls to get what we want.
		And we use it on our boyfriends and to get boyfriends and to get that guy to take us to the prom and to get that guy in college and to get that husband.
		I mean, we're always using our sexuality as women from the time we're born.
		The only place we leave it outside the door is when we go out to work and wear it counts so that we can move up and get some power in our hands.
		And, you know, I've had women writing to me and writing to newspapers whenever I've been published in newspapers, one woman said, well, you know, the Wanda Bois and things like that are okay for Madonna, but not for the real working woman.
		And I said to myself, well, here's a woman who thinks it's okay for Madonna to make millions of dollars by using her sexuality, but for some reason, the rest of the millions of us all have to live in poverty or have to struggle to make ends meet.
		Why is that?
		Why do women accept sexuality in the modeling industry, in the beauty industry, in the entertainment industry?
		Why is it okay in all those industries, which by the way, men manipulate women in those industries through sexuality and women buy right into it?
		Why don't women just manipulate themselves for once instead of letting the men make the money off of us?
		Because that's really what happens in the real world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're really saying that the whole femininity business as it applies to the workplace and even sexual harassment, that's something we'll cover, is an absolute bunch of baloney and it's really backwards and wrong and unnatural and what you're saying is the natural thing.
unidentified		Yes.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, women went into the workplace and, you know, for some reason they thought they're supposed to leave their womanhood outside of the door.
		But it doesn't work.
		It really doesn't because when you're in the real world and you're trying to get up there and you have to be ambitious and aggressive and walk over a lot of dead bodies because that's the way men make it also.
		You know, men don't just walk in the door and become president two weeks later.
		Men have to do the same thing.
		But men have something in there that women don't and that's a friend.
		It's the brother sitting in the corporate office.
		He's going to network in the golf course.
		He's going to network with the boys at the disco.
		He's going to network with them at the Urinol.
		He's going to network with them when he's cheating on the wife.
		Women don't have that.
		They don't have the friend at the workplace.
		They've got to make themselves known and make themselves known much quicker to whoever is important in that office and who can mentor them and help them and teach them and bring them along.
		That's the only way women are going to do it.
		They're not going to do it by working 20 hours a day sitting at their desk in their corporate outfits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know my audience has got to be sitting out there, most of them, in their hearts knowing you're exactly right.
		Exactly right.
		I mean, most of the women probably know it, though they have been conditioned away from what you're saying.
		And I can tell you right now that most of the men know it too.
		Now, there will be fundamentalist Christians who will come on here and just break you over the coals, no doubt.
		And I'm sure you're used to that.
		However, had you not done what you did, you probably wouldn't be representing one banker right now, would you?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
		And, you know, not only do I represent 40 banks, I own a number of other companies, and many, many doors have opened up to me throughout the world.
		And I've now gotten involved with international banking in Eastern countries.
		So, you know, the way I look and I presented myself opened up those doors.
		But again, I had to be good at what I did.
		And when I'm sitting across a conference table, they may be looking at my body first, but they're also listening to what I'm saying.
		And at some point, the eyes go from the chest to the face because now they want to conduct business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, business is the bottom line.
unidentified		That's right.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely right.
		And, you know, feminism has, you know, the feminist movement, it started out as something so great, but then it really became a cancer, and it really suffocated all those women out there.
		I mean, women out there are frustrated.
		They haven't made it.
		They're still at the bottom of the ladder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now refute this, because the women's movement claims many gains.
		Glass ceilings are being broken.
		Women are rising to positions they never have before.
		And they're claiming gains.
		Of course, so is the American Cancer Society.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know what gains they're looking at.
		There were a number of studies, and there are studies done by the month.
		A few months ago, there was a Harvard study done.
		They surveyed hundreds of law firms.
		And women were not partners.
		Women were still at the bottom.
		And, you know, 50% of law schools are made up of women.
		And they go into the force, into the law firms.
		And 50% of those women that enter leave because they're so frustrated.
		They go back home and they have children and they stay there.
		And I mean, that's okay, but that wasn't the original intention.
		That wasn't why they went to law school.
		The idea was to become a lawyer and work at something they loved and become successful and have economic freedom of choice in what they did.
		And it didn't happen.
		and the women that have remained are making ends meet um...
		you know the wim be the women that uh...
		None.
		No.
		One organization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there one?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Is there one?
		Now, don't you think they should all be behind this woman?
		I mean, after all, she's been sexually harassed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to tell me why you think they're not?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you why.
		Because women, first of all, are enamored of Bill.
		He's good looking.
		He's sexy.
		You know, I mean, women voted Bill in.
		You know, it was the women's vote that brought him in.
		Number two, Bill wants to give out money for the different things that women need.
		Women do need the money from the government.
		That's a very sad state of affairs.
		Instead of women being able to make that money and not need it and own those companies, you still need to be supported and still there to give it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really saying that Bill Clinton owes, to a large degree, his success to the same thing you do.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, you know, men have been doing that for years.
		You know, men know what sexuality is, and they've played that game.
		You know, men, you know, as a matter of fact, the foundation did a survey, and they found that they questioned about 800 secretaries, support staff, paralegals, assistants, and over 50% of those women said they fantasized having sex with the boss.
		About 20% said they had a bad person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that 50%?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Over 50%.
		And about 20 or 25% said yes, that the men in the office who have the power know that they have the power and know that they use their sexuality.
		I mean look, you know, that sexual tension is there.
		It exists in the workplace and everywhere else.
		I mean it exists in the Army.
		I don't know.
		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In life.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		In life, absolutely.
		And it makes the world go around.
		Women aren't using it, though, to their advantage.
		They're not manipulating it.
		I'm not telling women, go out and get a couch and bring it into your boss's office and, you know, close the door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you may be suggesting if there's one already conveniently there?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What I'm suggesting is, no, don't put words in my mouth.
		What I'm suggesting is use your sexuality.
		But at the same time, there are people who are going to have relationships in the office.
		It's been going on ever since men and women have been together in any environment, including the office, including the workplace, including the Army.
		And if you're going to have a sexual relationship with someone in the office, at least have it with someone who can help you.
		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, let's tackle the military services because they're having a terrible time right now.
		And it is a little bit of a different situation in the military.
		Well, because of the discipline.
		Yeah, it really is.
		I mean, not at the human relationship level, but in terms of what you can get in deep doo-doo for, yeah, it is.
		You can get in deep trouble very easily in the sexual harassment area.
		As a matter of fact, allegations sometimes reduce ranks nearly immediately.
		And so it is a little bit different in the military.
		Now, in the workplace, in civilian life, I absolutely understand what you're saying.
		And I think you're right.
		Now, this is going to aggravate a lot of people.
		And what I guess I want to know from you is, how have the women been talked into this?
		In other words, is there a cabal of men somewhere that has directed the women's movement?
		Or have the women, in your opinion, done this to themselves?
		Set up this set of rules regarding sexual harassment and correct apparel and what you do and don't do?
		Who really started changing the rules?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in terms of sexual, I just want to make one point about the sexual harassment situation in that, you know, 30 years ago women were told, you know, take your bra off and burn it.
		We should have really been told, you know, put on the bra and stuff it because that's a much better deal.
		I think sexual harassment is just the new thing in town for a lot of women who have not made it, who are very frustrated.
		It seems to be a big thing on talk shows and it gets you a little publicity, that 15 minute of fame.
		You may get a few bucks out of the deal because you obviously are not going to get up there, that corporate ladder.
		And it really ruins it for many, many, many, many women by, again, telling the world, you know, women can't handle the corporate environment.
		They can't handle the reality of men and women in the work environment.
		And so, you know, we're going to cry wolf.
		And it really ruins it for all the other women who take working very seriously and have no problem in dealing with the boys when the boys need to be dealt with.
		Who brainwashed women, the feminists, you know, and their intention was not bad.
		The initial revolution, so to speak, was good in the sense that they motivated millions and millions of women to go out there and become whatever it was that they wanted to become, that they too could do it.
		And so in that way, it was very, very positive.
		It became, what happened though, as time evolved, instead of women realizing that they shouldn't look like men and they don't know how to play the game that's played out there, because there is a game that's played out there and women didn't know the rules, they just kept doing it even though it was getting worse and worse and worse.
		A lot of the women organizations and the feminist leaders who started it, you know, they got richer.
		They started these organizations that really live off of all the rest of us that are going nowhere.
		Men humored us.
		You know, they thought this is very funny.
		You know, when you speak to men in corporations and banks, which I do on a daily basis and in law firms, you know, they call us Ms. and they call us assistants and they give you a nice little desk.
		But you know something?
		You're no better off than you were 30 years ago.
		You're still the secretaries.
		You're still helping those guys get ahead.
		And you don't even realize it.
		I mean, there's a woman who just came out with a book.
		I couldn't believe it.
		And I heard her on TV called Surrendering.
		She's telling women, it's okay to stay home.
		You know, you don't have to really work.
		And, you know, the feminist movement told you you could, but don't feel bad if you don't want to.
		And women should really stay home because that's really where they belong.
		And they can nurture the best.
		And they can raise children the best.
		And your husband needs you.
		And I mean, this is crazy.
		We're going, I mean, it's taken a whole turnaround because women didn't make it.
		You know, I know a lot of women say, oh, yes, you know, I have this position and that position.
		The question is, do we own anything?
		You know, that you have this position and that position.
		It's the man who owns the company that can still hire you and fire you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think Hillary Clinton is your kind of woman?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I mean, I don't agree with her political point of view, but she's definitely my kind of woman, and she's smart.
		She's a manipulator.
		She knows exactly what she's doing.
		And, you know, all the boys hate her because she knows how to play their game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's got a lot of bodies in her wake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As has her husband.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Look, she really is Bill Clinton.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, if she really took off, if they were, you know, together long enough, you'd realize she takes off her mask and he takes off his.
unidentified		You'd see who is Hillary and who is Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you may be right.
		One other thing.
		Now, I don't know how feminism began.
		I can remember a couple of very beautiful women involved in the beginning of feminism.
		In fact, one that I think got on the inside of, was it Playboy?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Gloria Steinem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Gloria Steinem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful woman.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		She still is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she is.
		But something happened to most of the women in the feminist movement.
		And I don't care how much trouble I get in, but frankly, when I look at them, this is just my opinion, and I see them interviewed on television, what I see mostly is a whole bunch of not very good-looking women who look, frankly, kind of butch.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I agree.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And I think that's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then their motivation in trying to change the whole way the workplace is handled might be a very personal agenda.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I think it's become a personal agenda because it's not run by the people that started it.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It really isn't.
unidentified		It's become convoluted.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And I wish women would wake up.
		You know, they're promoting this gender-blind society within the corporate environment.
		And it's absolutely nonsense.
		And it goes to such an extreme that it can only bring women to failure.
		And women have to wake up and open their eyes and look around and see that nothing has happened.
		It's only gotten worse.
		And I don't know why women are fighting me so much, except that perhaps, you know, it's very hard to wake up and say, you know something?
		I've just spent the last 20 years doing something that was totally wrong.
		And I don't want to wake up and I don't want to come to terms with it.
		And I don't want to change now because 20 years ago, I changed and I did what I was supposed to.
		And now this woman is telling me I have to change again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
		All right, Rosalie, you've got plenty of minutes to rest, grab some coffee, whatever you want to do.
		And we'll come back and do a little recap at the top of the hour, and then we're going to open the phone lines, and this is going to be a lot of fun.
		I can tell it's going to be fun.
		All right?
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie Osias, and we're going to see what we can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If anybody has a photograph, modem it to me right away and we'll get it up on the web.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		Leave me this way.
		I can't go by.
		I can't say goodbye without your love.
		Oh baby, don't leave me the way down.
		Oh baby, don't leave me the way down.
		Oh baby, don't leave me the way down.
		Pre-here, Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 27th, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning.
		Buckle in, everybody, because you're about to hear a different point of view.
		As you know, I specialize in different points of view.
		It gets me in trouble all the time.
		This is really different.
		My guest is Rosalie Osias.
		And by the way, anybody who's got a nice photograph of Rosalie Osias, please send it to me by email right now at artbell at aol.com.
		In the meantime, I have just scanned not a very good rendition sent to me by Fax of Rosalie, and that's on the way to my webmaster, Keith Rowlands.
		He will probably have it up there within the next half hour.
		But if anybody else has a photograph, and this is a worthy photograph to see, trust me, send it along and we'll get that up.
		She'll be back in a moment.
		She has a different outlook on things than you might hear conventionally anywhere else right now.
		And the thing about Rosalie is she's right.
		Anyway, back to her in a moment, and I'll catch you up.
		L.A., San Francisco, joining at this hour.
unidentified		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
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		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you know, the U.S. Supreme Court 9-0 said that the sexual harassment case against the president may proceed.
		And that's pretty big news today, just behind the tornadoes in Texas.
		And so we've got Rosalie Osias with us, and she has a very, very different way of looking at things.
		And she is suggesting that instead of the feminist position prevalent today in the workplace of, well, of suppression of a woman's natural sexuality, that women are losing one of the most powerful tools they have, their sexuality, a little thigh, a little cleavage, and why, as I joked earlier, you get a thigh in the door.
		Now, look, she's an attorney, and make no mistake about it, she said it, at the end of the day, you've got to be able to do your job, and she represents now about 40 banks.
		But she did it by getting a thigh in the door.
		You know, she just admits that, by getting a thigh in the door.
		So she has a very, very, very different view of things.
		And we were joking earlier, and I asked her, look, if you'd been in the position of a young lady that was about to go up to see the president, what would you have done?
		And she essentially said, well, I would have gone in.
		I definitely would have gone up there, and I would have probably gone from a GS4 to Secretary of State, maybe, or something like that.
		Anyway, you get the idea.
		Here she is once again, Rosalie High.
		Hi.
		You're in New York, by the way, aren't you?
		We didn't even tell people that.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New York City, Long Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, my main office is on the island, but I have offices throughout the state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right, fair.
		So you're traveling around all the time?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Not me, but other attorneys that work for me, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so now you have attorneys that work for you.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		How can I possibly represent 40 banks alone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of curiosity, what is the breakdown of your employment gender count?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many men, how many women work for you?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I know I'm going to get a lot of booze on this.
		And let me just qualify this by saying that I have running ads all the time because I'm constantly hiring new attorneys and new paralegals and assistants.
		And I always try to hire women.
		And I do.
		Unfortunately, women do not stay with me as long as men.
		So the majority of the attorneys that do work for me are men, but not because I wouldn't prefer women, which is a whole other program.
		But one of the other problems that women have is they it's very difficult for women to work for a female principal.
		It's okay for women to work for a manager, for a vice president, for another assistant, but it's very difficult for them to deal with a female principal as they deal with a male.
		I have other businesses where I have male partners apart from the law firm, and women somehow, and it goes back to that same thing.
		They don't have a strategy.
		It's not, you know, I want to go from here and I want to get to Z and it doesn't really matter what I do.
		With men, if a man is very demanding, women acquiesce and go, oh, he had a bad day with his wife.
		His stomach hurts, you know, the poor guy.
		When a woman is very demanding, women get incensed and internalize it and simply leave.
		So most of the people, I would say 65% of the employees that I have are men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something.
		I have in my life in radio and otherwise, worked for quite a number of women over the years.
		And I have to tell you, they are some of the most cold-hearted, mean-spirited, hard-to-work-for bitches that I have ever come across in my mind.
		I have worked for some of the...
		It's like they're then out to destroy men.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't think that's really the goal here.
		I think women, once they do achieve some sort of power and control, it's hard for them to maintain it.
		And they really can't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they didn't do it your way, Rosalie, by a little thigh and a little cleavage and whatever else, and then competent work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if they did it instead the way men do it, and that is by leaving dead business bodies behind, they're harder, crueler, and make terrible bosses.
unidentified		Well, that's what most people say.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Maybe people are just not used to dealing with a woman.
		I do believe, though, that women have to be harder than men.
		I look, I guess I'm a little bit harder.
		I'm more demanding of people that work for me than perhaps my male counterpart because my clients expect a higher standard from me than my male counterparts, or they would go there.
		And so if I'm going to produce a higher quality of work, then I need to get that from the people who work for me as well.
		And so perhaps I may be tougher.
		I mean, you know, as much thigh and cleavage as I show, at the end of the day, I still need very high quality work.
		And I think both men and women have a hard time working, but those women that finally do reach it, those women do have to maintain a certain standard.
		And they think, I don't know, but in my case, I am very demanding and I know what's expected and I want to keep that clientele.
		But you know, men are different in the sense that if you're demanding and you critique, they will close their ears.
		They may not like it.
		They may whisper a lot of things under their breath.
		But they like the money.
		They know where they are.
		They know why they're there.
		They know where they're going.
		There's a reason they're there.
		And they move on.
		Women don't.
		They take it personally.
		And obviously you took it personally also when the female boss yelled at you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, look, I was just making a very general observation.
		Men, when they deal with each other at a business level, I'm not saying they don't get into big fights and there are not big conflicts, but it is not as strident and as mean-spirited as the woman who has made it in the man's world, not your way, but, you know, by leaving bodies behind, by being as rough and as tough and as big and as bad as any man out there in the business world.
		These women, look out.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to defend them because I'm just happy they're there.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I really am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's take a few phone calls.
		This will be interesting indeed.
		Are you prepared to defend yourself?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry about me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First-time caller, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Chris from Nashville.
		Yes, Chris.
		I've been in the workplace for 12 years as a salesman, and I kind of agree with what she's saying, but not all women are pretty, and some women have no sexuality.
		I mean, if they don't have that, what are they supposed to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
		That's a good question.
		And I think when I made my rather caustic comment about the women's movement, very caustic in fact, that's sort of what I was saying, that it has turned into or from an organization that really had a good beginning into an organization of women who are, frankly, not particularly good-looking and want the rest of the workplace and the rest of their gender reduced to the same playing field.
unidentified		You know what?
		That's what another national talk show host said.
		I heard him say it for the first time about a year ago, and I thought, oh, boy, you've lost it.
		And actually, there's a little bit of truth in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he may have lost it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He may not still have his job.
unidentified		No, he does.
		He's the number one.
		I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Rush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean Rush?
unidentified		Mr. Limbaugh, right.
		And another thing, I think what women need to do is just change their attitude, get a little thicker-skinned, and don't be so petty.
		Life is not perfect for everybody.
		And that would get them a lot farther along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, everything we're saying is not politically correct, but as you listen to Rosalie, you know she's right, don't you?
unidentified		In most cases, the only thing I don't like what I hear is that she keeps she's got the same general idea that the other feminists do, that all women are victims and all men are bad, and I don't agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if she said that.
unidentified		No, but all men are bad.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say men are bad at all.
		As a matter of fact, I adore men.
		And really, it's men who make me feel like a sexy woman.
		And I love men for making me feel that way.
		And I couldn't see a world without men.
		So no, I don't hate men.
		But I do think that the majority of women are on the lower economic ring.
		There is no doubt about that.
		That men control the world.
		They control the major corporations, the banks, countries.
		I mean, let's face it, that's the reality.
unidentified		Okay, you say men.
		That sounds like one success story.
		No, it's millions of separate success stories.
		Everyone's got a different situation in life, and you have to just take your blows on the way up sometimes.
		That's just the way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, look, his initial question was, what about the ugly woman or the homely woman?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know something?
		I'm asked that question all the time.
		But, you know, sexuality is, and don't laugh, but it is from within.
		It's an attitude.
		It's the way you look at somebody.
		It's the way you walk.
		It's the way you hold your body.
		It's the way you sit.
		It's the way you get up.
		There's much more to sexuality than a pretty leg and big breasts.
		Sexuality is a whole combination of things.
		There are plenty of women who have gorgeous bodies and are very masculine.
		So it's an attitude, it's a feel, it's everything combined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, sex is mostly in your head, really, isn't it?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		That's right.
		But, you know, we think of beautiful as, you know, tall, thin, big breasts, long legs, long hair, blonde, green eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's easy for you to say because that's you.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been blessed in that way, maybe, but you know something?
		There are women out there who are gorgeous if they would just let themselves become gorgeous.
		You know, I know women, attorneys, who make it their business every morning to look as ugly as possible.
		You know, let me get that hair back.
		Let me put on my glasses.
		God forbid I should put on some makeup.
		Let me look as disgusting as possible so that I can get as much respect tomorrow morning as I can.
		And I think that's what you see out there, and that's the wrong attitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember a big brouhaha not long ago over a Supreme Court justice appointment?
unidentified		Rosalie?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, which one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't.
		Don't you remember the sexual harassment charges and the hearings they had and the pubic hair and that whole brouhaha?
		You don't remember that?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, now I do.
unidentified		Now you do.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I was thinking of another judge that told a woman that was brought in front of her who had stolen something and the judge, a female judge, very smart, said to her, you know, you didn't have to go and steal anything.
		All you've got to do is go to a bus stop and sit on a bench and cross your legs and show some thigh and you would have been able to make plenty of money.
		Did you hear about that one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Okay, anyway, going back to your story.
		As you watched that whole thing unfold, and I can imagine you must have been intensely fascinated.
		You must have been sitting there shaking your head saying, what the hell is going on here?
		What's the matter with this woman?
		Why is she doing this?
		I guess you looked at it.
		How did you look at it?
		I don't want to put words in your mouth.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, the same way that I look at any woman that comes up with this sexual harassment, new, you know, new ice cream in town.
		I don't like it.
		I don't care for it.
		It's an insult to me as a woman.
		And it's, you know, let me get myself into the limelight.
		I mean, I'm ashamed of it.
		I don't like it.
		And I wish that other women would stop buying the newspaper in protest or something.
		Look at Monte Williams.
		You know, the talk show host?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Remember, you know, some young producers, female producers, got all hot and bothered because he would walk around in his boxer shorts and light cigars.
		Me, I would have taken pictures.
		I would have laughed with it.
		I would have said, hey, Monty, this is cool.
		This is great.
		You know, let me sit here and light your cigarette.
		I would have gone with it because really I'm not there to help him be Monty Williams.
		I'm there to take his job.
		And I'm going to manipulate the situation to my advantage.
		Instead, I mean, do we hear about those women anymore?
		No.
		It was a one- or two-day newspaper event, and that was it.
		So to me, it's a waste of time, and it's not conducive to making headways for women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What generally happens to women who bring sexual harassment charges?
		I mean, whatever it might be, they bring the charges.
		There's a big brouhaha.
		They keep their job probably for a while.
		But what happens to them?
		Do they ever really break through the glass ceiling or are they forever marked?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		They don't break through the glass ceiling, that's for sure.
		You know, it's out in the paper.
		There's discussions of the tremendous case, the Smith Barney case, you know, with all those women yelling and screaming that they were harassed.
		I mean, I don't, you know, to me, I mean, I worked for large law firms before I opened up my own.
		And I don't ever remember working for a firm where men didn't look at me or men didn't ask me out or a partner didn't put his arm around me.
		And, you know, when I started out of law school, I also conformed to what I was told to do.
		You know, wear that conservative suit, look as ugly as possible, look like a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did the light bulb go on suddenly?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		When I wasn't getting any of the good work that my male counterparts were getting.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		When the male associates, who had come in at the same time, were sitting in the partner's office doing big deals, and I was doing nonsense and garbage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Rosalie, hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and let me tell the audience that on my website now, I've got one image of Rosalie already.
		We're looking for a better one, but if you want to see Rosalie, she's up there, Rosalie Osias, on my website.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		We got to get right back to where we started from.
		Do you remember that day?
		When you first came my way, I said no one could take your way.
		And if you get hurt, by the little...
		You can die.
		Having no time on your mind.
		Ooh, you can die.
		You can die.
		Having no time on your mind.
		Ooh, see that girl.
		Watch that sea.
		We'll see you next time.
		Looking out for a place to go.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie Osias is my guest.
		We've got one photograph of her on the website already.
		It was a quick scan.
		I'm going to try to get another.
		If anybody has one, send it to me.
		This woman is gorgeous.
		Absolutely gorgeous.
		So, I should have been working on photographs earlier, but I had a wild Day today.
		Anyway, we'll get back to Rosalie.
		She's got quite a message.
		It's a very different message, and we'll tell you more about it in a moment.
		And you know, as I sit here and I listen to music, here is yet another place where women's sexuality, their provocative natural nature is glorified.
		It's all over music, isn't it?
		So, what happens to it when it gets into the workplace?
		And that's what Rosalie is asking.
		And you may have political disagreements with her, but in your heart, I bet you know she's right.
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		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Rosalie Osias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, are you there?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You still awake?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phone lines.
		West of the Rockies, by the way, Rosalie, I should say, and if this isn't proof, when we got the first scan of you up on the website, my webmaster just called and said the entire server, and we've got a big one, went into what he called DEF CON 4.
		Which means that there's a good zillion people going up there to see what you look like right now.
		And doesn't that, in a way, prove your point?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely proves my point.
		All the men agree with me.
		Even men in my own profession, in the banking industry, incredibly enough, have started advertising in very unique sexual ways.
		And they don't even have to.
		But they realize that, yeah, you know something, she's got a point.
		And we can't obviously be sexual the way she can, but we can do it with tongue-in-cheek and humor and get more clientele.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, if it's okay to sell a car by draping a woman across it, then it should be okay to sell an introduction to business the same way.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But you know, the only people who aren't doing it are the women.
		The women keep saying, no, we're not going to do it.
		We're not going to do it.
		We're not going to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's take some more calls.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Assaias.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		This is Floyd in Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		I'm great.
unidentified		I'm back home again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, is Rosalie right or wrong?
unidentified		She's 100% right.
		And you know, this woman has got more insight than anybody that I have seen.
		You're absolutely right about the feminist movement.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I love you.
unidentified		Rosalie, I support you 100%, young lady.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		And I wish you the best of everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, she seems to have that already.
unidentified		I haven't been able to get to a website so I can see that.
		But you made a comment that I agree with, too.
		On the sexuality, it doesn't have to be somebody with Farah Fawcett hair and Brooke Shields legs.
		It could be somebody with a Rosie O'Donnell body, but with the personality that she's got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're exactly right.
		Thank you, Carla.
		And here's one for you.
		Take this one on.
		Art, ask your guest, Rosalie, if she's saying to tease and flirt to get a job, or is she saying sleep her way to the top?
		Before I go on with the facts, which is it?
		Or is it both?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's either one.
		You know, I tell women that they've got to be smart and sexy, and that always equals power and money.
		And that's all you really need.
		But if you're going to have relationships in the office anyway, and you know, it happens, and I know people keep saying, no, it doesn't.
		People don't have these relationships in there.
		They do.
		And, you know, let's be honest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So being honest, you're saying both.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying both.
		And look, don't sleep with the FedEx clerk.
		Sleep with the boss.
		Because the FedEx clerk can only teach you how to mail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
		All right.
		Then the facts goes on.
		If she is saying that having sex with a guy is worth any job, she's crazy.
		Can you imagine how many sexual diseases you can get?
		What about pregnancy?
		What about fidelity with your mate?
		Most women I know already use the art of flirt at their jobs.
		If they go the next step and sleep with every guy up the ladder, are they any better than a prostitute?
		This is from Lisa in Birmingham.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, we're all prostitutes in one way or another, both men and women.
		Unfortunately, it's the men who redeem all the benefits of that prostitution and the women who are always the givers and get nothing in return.
		I say, you know, I don't know how she's using her flirtation.
		You know, flirtation alone doesn't get you anywhere.
		It doesn't work if it's not combined with brains and strategy, okay?
		It's not enough just to show leg and breast.
		That's okay for two, three days, and then, you know, everybody moves on.
		So there's got to be a real strategy behind the flirtation, the sexuality.
		But if that's not working and that person wants to move on and feels that there is an opportunity by doing whatever it is that she would like to do with the employer, you know, it's going to happen anyway.
		And you know something?
		People think that sex isn't happening out there because of AIDS and all these diseases.
		Oh, it's happening out there.
		It's happening every day.
		I don't think people are more restrained.
		And if you're going to do it, at least get something for it.
		You know, I'm tired of women always being the ones.
		You know, if women want something and use their sex to do it, you know, if they're sluts.
		If men do it, you know, oh, isn't he great?
		You know, isn't he wonderful?
		You know, it's a double standard.
		And it's really a matter of what do you want?
		Do you want to always be the assistant?
		Or do you, one of these days, want to own the company?
		It's really quite simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, how you doing, Art?
		Steve from Greenville, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		Hi, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve, I'm sorry.
unidentified		Yeah, it's okay.
		It's okay.
		The accent has something to do with it.
		I'm driving home from work and listening to Rosalind on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie.
unidentified		Rosalie, I'm sorry.
		And Osias.
		And just with the comments about women looking good as opposed to, you know, ugly women can fix themselves up and everything, it reminded me of the other famous trial that has gone on here lately with Marcia Clark.
		She changed her image during the trial, and boy, everybody, at least out here, was talking about how good looking she was and it made her almost more credible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the only problem, sir?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She lost the case.
unidentified		Well, I know.
		I didn't say it made her more confident.
		But it made her, I mean, you know, everybody talked about how she looked and everything.
		And I know it didn't make her more confident.
		I didn't think she did a very good job.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's true, but you know, I'm reading her book, and I read a lot of comments about her.
		She did change her look.
		She didn't change her look enough.
		She didn't know.
		Well, she was still very much conforming to male standards of being tough, and she has got to be this and she's got to be that.
		And she'll just do so much.
		I think if she would have been a lot more sexy and would have come across in that way, there would have been a much nicer, better connection with that jury.
		You know, Johnny Cochrane wore purple suits for a reason.
		And he was very, very sexy in that courtroom, believe me.
		He used that sexuality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, they have consultants, you would well know, you're an attorney, that are hired to assess the juries as they go through the process of picking a jury.
		These consultants have a strong influence on who is picked to be on the jury for either side.
		And maybe they should have a consultant like you trying to figure out whether it's a leg man or a breast man.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know something?
		You might have something.
		I may just expand into that new arena.
		I don't mind making a few more dollars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I'm doing quite well.
		Turn your radio off.
		That's the first thing.
unidentified		Okay, hold on a sec.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, we're taking these calls unscreened, Rosalie.
		They come in as I punch them up.
		I don't even know who's coming up.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Grand Junction, Colorado.
		All right.
		I just wanted to say that I think that's what she does and with the way that she works, I think that's just taking advantage of all the things that you can do.
		You know, everybody gets trumpled on.
		And, hey, I've been through college, you know, law school, and I'm in medical school now and been working my way to the top.
		And I hear people like this, that if they can do it, they can do it easier.
		More power to them.
		I think that's just cool.
		Everybody taking advantage of what they can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here, I thought she was going to get nailed up to the wall here.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you notice that we haven't had any female callers.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
		That's true.
		Let's change that.
		I can change that.
unidentified		Well, hey, if I was, you know, I'm not an ugly male.
		I consider myself fairly sexy, you know, but if I could do what you could do with your body to get to the top, I would.
		But my problem is everybody above me is either, you know, male or something, you know, and I'm not going to go quite there to get to the top, you know.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I'm going to change that right now.
		I'll tell you what I want.
		Keith, if you're out there listening, I just sent you a second scan.
		Now, that's pretty good.
		I'm a guy who can actually scan photographs and talk on the radio at the same time and do an interview and take calls and maybe even chew gum.
		I haven't tried that yet.
		So we've got a second scan on the way up to the web right now.
		Keith, you'll find that in your email right now.
		Now, I'm going to take a quick break.
		And what I want to do, Rosalie, stay right there, is all the guys who are calling right now, hang up.
		Hang up.
		We'll get back to you.
		Don't worry, guys.
		We'll get back to you.
		Women only.
		Women only for the next few minutes.
		Let's see what we get.
		Are you listening now?
		So if you're a guy out there calling, hang up.
		Let the ladies get through.
		Let's see what they've got to say, because she's exactly right.
		I don't think we've had one woman yet, so here they come.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Paradise, Paradise, California.
		All right.
		And let's just say I'm the slut from Paradise, just because I believe with what Rosalie says.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if she said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, did you say that?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not calling women sluts.
unidentified		Well, I'm sure somebody did.
		I just started listening about five or ten minutes ago.
		I see.
		Because I had to watch Strange Universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And I've always, well, I can't think of a job that I've ever had where I have not had to deal with men flirting with you and trying to take advantage of you, but I've always tried to use that to my advantage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And have you done so to the degree Rosalie described?
unidentified		Well, the little bit that I've heard so far, I can only go on my own experience that yes, you can use it to your benefit.
unidentified		You can come across kindly and nicely, and we all like flattery, and basically that's what, of course, I've never had to work with senators, so I don't know what politicians are doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there's a very, very interesting question, Rosalie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the various career fields that are out there, from the private sector, business, banks, senators, is there any difference to the kind of response you will get to the kind of overatures for career advancement that you propose?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You mean in terms of how men respond or how a woman should respond to the business?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, in the different careers of men, how they respond.
		In other words, you've dealt with bankers.
		They're about the staunchiest group you could imagine.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know something?
		I mean, I think men are men and women are women.
		I mean, I don't think men are any different in the Senate versus banking or the legal profession or the accounting profession.
		I think men are pretty basic, and smart women understand those, you know, that basic and those needs and the mentality and how to manipulate men.
		They're pretty generic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I'm very, very nervous because I've never called into a talk show before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Illinois, in central Illinois.
		Okay.
		And my name is Bridget.
		Cool.
		I really have to applaud Rosalie for being an individual and having her point of view.
		And I applaud any woman who wants to dress however they feel comfortable dressing, quite frankly.
		And I really, it depends on the situation and the mood I'm in.
		Right now, I really don't have, I'm on my way to graduate school eventually.
		So I haven't really had any, I haven't had any situations that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She can give you advice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're going to get out, you're going to go into the private sector.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Actually, I am working right now producing your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm at WSOI.
		You are?
		Yes.
		Uh-huh.
		And I also want to ask Rosalie if she's ever heard of Rhiann Eisler.
		No.
		No.
		She wrote a very interesting book called The Chalice and the Blade.
		And it talks a lot about history and archaeology, and it's kind of a holistic kind of perspective.
		And it's more of instead of just men against women, it's more of a partnership versus kind of a dominator paradigm.
		And I believe Terence McKenna is really into Rhiannon Eisler as well and has written about her in his writing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I thank you for the call.
unidentified		I just wanted to applaud her.
unidentified		And Art, I applaud you for having such a great show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		And by the way, there is now a second photograph of Rosalie on the website.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning, Rosalie.
		Good morning.
		This is Holly from Honolulu.
		Hello?
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're here.
unidentified		I love Honolulu.
		I wanted to say I agree with you 100%.
		Oh, my God.
		I've been a stripper for 18 years.
		Excuse me?
		A stripper.
		I'm a stripper.
		And I've been a stripper for 18 years.
		And I've gotten to know a little bit about men in that time.
		And I just want to say that everything that you've said, Rosalie, is right on.
		I mean, completely.
		I've literally used my physical attributes, feminine wiles, whatever, to make a really good living.
		Never had to work for a man.
		I was able to have a job anywhere I went.
		I've worked in gentlemen's clubs.
		I've worked in dives.
		And everywhere I've worked, you know, I love men.
		I adore men just like you do.
		And I just want to say that everything you're saying is right on.
		And also, I agree with the man who called in and said sexuality and what people are attracted to is a very relative thing.
		I've seen women who aren't conventionally beautiful get on stage and seduce a room just by paying attention, making eye contact.
		I disagree that all women are sexy to me.
		I think all women are sexy.
		There are no ugly women.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, all women can be sexy.
		No doubt.
		All women project themselves as being sexy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to have to jump in there and disagree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are definite ugly women.
unidentified		Yes, but that's to you.
		You know what I'm saying?
		That's your opinion.
		Like, if you're to, for example, let me give you an example.
		If I go into a club and there are 400 dancers in that club and I ask 20 guys, which dancer is the prettiest one in this room, all of them will have a different answer.
		Not one will say the same person.
		And I'm honest to God, I've seen women make fortunes who are not conventionally pretty.
		When a man says, I don't think that woman is pretty or attractive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, we're going into a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you hold on?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, how about you?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Everybody hold on then, and we'll be back to both of you and everybody else in a moment.
		Rosalie Osias from New York is my guest.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		To Coast AM from May
		27, 1997.
		To Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		We can even think about the mother.
		The memories will last a long, long time.
		We'll have a good time, baby, don't be worried.
		And if we're still playing around, boy, that's just right.
		Let's get excited.
		We just can't hide it.
		No, no, no.
		I'm about to do some cool and I think I like it.
		I'm going to find it.
		And I just can't hide it.
		Oh, no, no Remember, Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Rosalie Osias is my guest.
		She is an attorney.
		And she's not exactly a feminist.
		Or is she?
unidentified		That's a big question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you one thing.
		If you ever wanted to go to a website and see a couple of incredible pictures, get up to mine right now and take a look.
		Rosalie's on it.
		Two photographs.
		The one I suggest you look at first is Rosalie at work.
		I think those are high heels.
unidentified		Can't quite tell, but be sure.
		Oh my.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		To Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Rosalie Osias is an attorney.
		She represents about 40 banks.
		She's got a big business.
		She's got attorneys who work for her.
		In other words, she's got a big business, and she's done it her way.
		Like Old Blue Eyes said, you've done it your way.
		Is that fair?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I have done it my way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dear Art, I am a devout evangelical Christian and a professional psychotherapist, and I find myself in complete agreement with your guest on the show.
		In my opinion, she is describing the use of charm and sensuality in the conveyance of one's talents and gifts, not necessarily the use of sexuality as a manipulation of the patriarchal system.
		I wonder if that's fair.
		You are, though, which are you doing?
		Both, really, right?
		In other words, you are using sexuality, it is fair to say, as a manipulation of the present system.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm using sexuality because I'm a woman and it comes easy and it's a gift I have.
		I was born with it, and it's a weapon that I've been using since I was born.
		So, yes, I'm using it in the workplace as well to open up a lot of doors and generate income.
		Look, you know, I support a lot of families in my employment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you married?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And I have two small boys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		what is your husband's attitude about your take on things well my No, it's a fair question.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, my husband is the kind of guy, he's very smart.
		He's an attorney.
		He's ambitious himself.
		And he has no problem with his wife making money.
		And he knows that I'm very good at what I do.
		I was always sexy and used my sexuality.
		I got him with my money, with my brains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to say, you probably got him the way you got 40 banks.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know something, you do what it takes.
		And I wanted him, and I'm very happy.
		And we have two great kids.
		And after being married to him for 10 years, I'm still happy to jump into bed.
unidentified		So how many people can say that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we'll find out.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You jump into bed with him, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's, yeah, but let me ask you this.
		Suppose he had just an incredible opportunity.
		I mean, just an incredible opportunity to take over or bring two corporations together into a merger that would make you multi-millionaires.
		Only thing is, he'd have to sleep with the CEO of the other company to consummate the deal.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, I may get a lot of hassles about this, but the truth of the matter, no, no, no.
		The truth of the matter is, you know, I think men play that game anyway, and even if when they're not bringing two corporations together, that's the whole idea.
		Men are that way.
		Men like to play around.
		It has nothing really to do with whether they love their wives or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, but this is still not a direct answer to my question.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		He's going to do whatever he's going to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you would understand that.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he would tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you wouldn't want to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a don't-tell policy.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's not a matter of a don't-tell policy.
		I just, you know, don't think men walk around talking about that to their wives.
		But I wouldn't have a problem with that.
		At least he's bringing home millions of dollars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll send him a tape, a copy.
		Not to Honolulu.
		Here's our Honolulu stripper again.
		Are you there?
unidentified		Yes.
		Hello.
		Aloha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Aloha.
		Thanks for your patience.
		Anything else?
unidentified		I just wanted to say she's very right.
		Hello, Rosalie.
		Again, Aloha.
		You're very right about when you say you're coming from a position of power because this is my opinion, but I believe that women are always going to be sexual objects.
		It doesn't matter if we have a million years of so-called feminist movement.
		Men are always going to be attracted by women.
		And women who learn how to use that to their advantage are coming from a position of power.
		And I've always felt that way.
		I bought my first home when I was 20 years old.
		Like I said, I've been dancing now, you know, I'm 34 now.
		I've been dancing since my teens.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, how many women can say they bought their first home at 20?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And, you know, I have homes here on the islands, homes on the mainland.
		I work two days a week.
		You know, I love my work.
		Yeah.
		And I've never understood it.
		And the other thing I've never understood is the feminist position to me, which is very hypocritical, of saying women should have the right to do what they want with their body when it comes to abortion.
		But when I want to make money with my body, it's degrading and it's putting women down.
		It sets them back 100 years when I feel like the ultimate feminist weapon making money off exactly what just comes naturally to men.
		You know, I've just always felt that's very hypocritical to say that on that premise.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're not going to get an argument from me.
unidentified		Oh, I know.
unidentified		Well, I'll let you go, but thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and I hope they're not coming to get you.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		You know, there's one more here that I lined up specifically, a female.
		Are you surprised so far at the female response?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You expected venom.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what usually happens.
		I don't know if they really mean it deep inside or if they, you know, once they sit down and really think about and evaluate their lives, if they really believe what they say.
		But superficially and on the radio and on television, I'm always attacked.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm Val from Perrump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're from Perump, Nevada?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I just moved here from Hawaii, though, from Honolulu.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I'm 74.
		I've been there.
		I couldn't agree with her more.
		Rosalie is 100% right.
		I've been in both circles.
		I'm a ham operator who in the late 60s decided to leave the sales and corporate organizations and go into electronics.
		Wow.
		And so therefore I was a woman in a man's world at a time when few women were in it.
		And I also am the widow of a banker.
		Now today I'm establishing a horse breeding farm in Perump, Spanish Gated Horses.
		And if anybody has been down the road with men, women, good women employees or counselors, advisors in university complexes where I became the most unusual person, an engineer, electronics engineer in universities where women have ten thumbs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right, you're in a man's world in electronics for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you use your feminine wiles?
unidentified		I had one fellow, one engineer introduced to me one day and my boss said to me, who is the director of the department, said, you know, Val, you always wear these fox.
		Frocks, are you ready for that fox to work?
		I said, my job has nothing to do with my femininity.
		And it was dead silence there for a minute, then they both gave a little chuckle.
		But I never, never dressed down at any time.
		And as far as wearing pants, if I wore pants, I wore something that was very feminine for a blouse or a jacket or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that helped in your career?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And the only problem I ever had was really with a woman.
		And Rosalie was right.
		Women are very difficult to work with.
		I love your people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, thank you, ma'am.
		I think I have a very enlightened audience, I'm beginning to believe.
		However, the last word has not been said.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		First of all, I am a woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can tell that right away, yes.
unidentified		My name is Donna, and I'm calling from Oregon.
		I got two quick questions.
		One, Rosalie, are you or have you ever been married?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I am married.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		I also have another question for you.
		I was wondering if your philosophy of flirting and possibly sleeping with superiors to work yourself up also would apply if you happened to have a superior that was a woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are ways to deal with women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait a minute, ma'am.
		Hold on, hold on.
		I don't want to miss this answer.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so let's hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Rosalie.
unidentified		No, no, no.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there are ways to deal with women.
		I think, you know, as I said, I had many women attorneys who didn't stay and couldn't work for me.
		But I think you've got to analyze who your female employer is.
		Know what you are.
		No, I mean, you know, let's not laugh about it.
		There are ways to deal with a woman employer, not necessarily perhaps through flirtation, but you know something?
		There are ways.
		There are ways to be a woman and possibly be tougher with that employer.
		You know, when I use my sexuality to manipulate business from a man, I'm gearing that towards that man because I know sex is very prevalent on his mind.
		There obviously are women employers who aren't interested in my sexuality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but they are interested in the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The question, Rosalie, the question might be, what if there was a woman interested in you in that same way?
unidentified		And she was not, but she was attractive.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, you know something?
		The goal is to get up there, and the goal is to own the company, and the goal is to move on.
		I think women have to be very, very sure of where they want to go and how they want to get there.
		If they're not willing to do whatever it's got to be done to get there, then you're going to stay at that same position.
		And once you've made up your mind that this is where you want to go, you're going to go.
		Look, in many, many industries, people have to do what they do with each other.
		You and I don't know what goes on there because we're not involved in that industry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, ma'am, I'm not sure, but I think we just got to ask you.
unidentified		I got the gist of the answer.
		I'm not going to be a stay-at-home mom.
		I guess I could be the same.
		I'm flirting with and having sex with is the husband.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Repeat, caller.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		I said, for me, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so the only person I'm flirting with and working myself on top of, excuse the term, isn't the husband.
		Well, I mean, that's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not much different in a lot of ways.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, if that's what you want.
		You know, my personal feeling was I didn't want to stay home ever and depend on my husband for anything.
		If I wanted to buy my kids something, I didn't want to have to go to my husband and ask him for the money.
		If I wanted to buy clothes or if I wanted anything, I wanted to be able to make choices in my life based on myself and what I wanted, not because my husband said yes, no, maybe, could be.
		That just wasn't going to be my way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm tempted to open the line for feminists.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it good?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, would you like to take them on?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Of course, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll do that at the bottom of the hour.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm going from Connecticut and I just had a little question for Rosalie.
		Rosalie, when you've become sexually involved with a boss, how does...
		Oh, I know that.
		I admire that, and I think it's the best way to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the latter experience here.
unidentified		Yes, we are.
		What about the aftermath of that for the boss?
		What about his home life, his wife, his children?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		That kind of thing.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's interesting that you say that.
		I've been watching Helen Gurley Brown.
		I don't know if you're, you know.
unidentified		Yes, I do.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And she was way, way ahead of her time.
		You know, and she dealt with that issue.
		And I listen to her now, and people just don't understand what she's talking about.
		And she can't get the message out anymore because she's very right, but no one wants to listen to someone that's already retired and saying it.
		But she always makes a point, and it's true, and I believe it.
		You know, the woman who's at home and has the man out there working, I mean, you know, that husband is her problem.
		And, you know, when he's in the workplace, he's in the workplace.
		And what he does there, the woman who's going to have the relationship with him in the workplace, I mean, it isn't her obligation to keep him loyal to his wife or keep that relationship in place or keep that marriage going wonderfully.
		I'm not really interested in that.
		That's not why I'm at work.
		I'm not really concerned about the employer and his wife.
unidentified		I agree with you.
unidentified		I disagree because I think that the wife many times has helped the husband become what he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I agree with you.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you 100%.
unidentified		And I think her health can be broken.
		Her life can be destroyed.
		And her children as well.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		This is why I tell women don't stay home because that is correct.
		Those women have helped their husbands.
		And at the end of the game, they have nothing.
		That's true.
		And I tell women, don't stay home and don't sit there because the kids are going to leave, the husband has his career, and you're going to be left there at home without the kids and without the husband who's out there, has his career, has a whole new world.
		And, you know, men get more attractive and sexier as they get older.
		Women, their shelf life is very short.
		Why is it?
		It's very disposable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is that, by the way?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Because that's human nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but what I'm saying is, I know you're right in the way we perceive it, but we all age at about the same rate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, as you point out, women's shelf life is a lot shorter.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't really age at the same rate because you know what happens?
		I mean, men age, but Men can still have children in their 70s and 80s and 90s.
		So they're still sexual animals.
		Women, unfortunately, I know women are going to be angry when I say this.
		You know, there's a lot of estrogen therapy going out out there.
		But the truth is that women shrink and get dry and gravity affects them differently.
		Well, you know, that's the way men and women are made.
		And men are not attracted by older women.
		But younger women are definitely attracted to older men for many, many reasons.
		So, you know, a man can have 10 wives and go through 50 children and can start a whole new life at the age of 70 with a 20-year-old woman.
		A woman at the age of 70 is lucky if she gets a call from her kid once a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, what you're speaking is the absolute truth.
		It's going to make a lot of people angry.
		We're about to hear from some of them.
		I know that, but I also know what you're saying is absolutely true.
		A lot of people don't like it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a truth.
		Like a law of nature, Rosalie.
		That's what it is, a law of nature.
		Hold on, we'll get back to you.
		Now, what I want to do is restrict my lines.
		Everybody hang up out there, please.
		What I want are some radical, possibly even radical, feminists who are offended by what they're hearing right now.
		And if you are out there, call me on whatever line you're able to get through on, and we'll go down that road a little bit.
		So we're looking for some radical feminists or those who disagree with Rosalie.
		And I suspect they're Legion.
		And that's all we're taking.
		So don't waste your money if that's not you.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		But I think it's time to get ready to realize what I have found.
		I have been losing hell over my hands.
		It's all free to be there.
		My heart is on fire.
		My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
		Smokes and drinks and don't come home at all.
		Only women bleed Only women bleed Only women bleed Man makes your head break.
		He's your life's mistake.
		All you really look in for an even break.
		He lies right at you.
		You know you hate this game.
		Slaps you once in a while and you live in love and pain.
		She cries alone tonight.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zacher Mann, Rosalie Osias is my guest.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a quick facts before we go back to the phones, and I think I've got what I requested, Rosalie, so this should be an interesting half hour.
		Art, regarding your guest tonight, I don't care about her qualifications.
		She's hired.
		Moreover, she can write her own job description.
		I just saw the photo, and I knew I could trust your judgment.
		Anyway, here we go.
		Look out.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Rosemary from Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I have to say I love the show.
unidentified		First time I've been on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
unidentified		Or gotten through.
		That is.
		Listened to you for about, let me be the last year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to admit, I have an unpredictable show.
unidentified		You have a great show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, here's Rosalie.
unidentified		Okay, Rosalie.
		Hi.
		I have to say that I think you're great.
		I like what you're saying, but I also call myself a feminist.
		And I'll tell you why.
		I'm an older student that's gone back to school, and all of a sudden I've gotten an education.
		I was one of these gals that sort of did that type of thing for many years, worked in the workplace and used my whiles.
		I was always very attractive and sexy and got a lot of attention, and I did use it.
		However, now in my older age and learning some of the things that I'm learning, I've become more aware of what's going on, and I'm working with youth.
		And I have a problem with, and I did read Helen Gurley Brown, I have to say that too, I have a problem with what I think is a lot of young girls these days don't know how to use this talent and get themselves in a lot of trouble.
		And I see this breakdown of what you and I know in our, you know, being older and experienced, but I don't see them being able to get the guidance or the instruction and they're just going helter-skelter.
		And I have a problem with kind of espousing this philosophy at this point with all the problems that we have already in today's world.
		And it seems to me like it's a breaking down of a moral standard, which is like the last thing we need right now.
		And there's not anything, we're not talking about spirituality here either, which is another whole issue.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		So that is a whole other issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, address the spirituality, the morality question.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Look, young women, the reason that they don't know how to use their sexuality in the right way is because they do up to a point and then once, I'm assuming these women are ready to go into the workplace or they're in college or in high school, look, they have to be taught how to use it in the workplace, but they also need an education.
		Not just, well, you know something, you're sexy, you're beautiful, and it doesn't matter and now go in there and do your thing.
		It doesn't work, and I said it before.
		That's okay for a few hours and a few days, and then it's over.
		Those women need to be taught that they need that education.
		They need to know what they want.
		They need to have a strategy.
		They need to learn how to network.
		They need to know where the deals are made, how the deals are made, and how to be sexual and how to use that sexuality.
		It's a whole package.
		It's a complete package.
unidentified		Right, but I'm not seeing who's going to teach them.
unidentified		Who is going to guide them?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why my foundation was set up.
		There was a reason for it.
		It wasn't just to get on radio shows and talk to people, although it's very important that I do.
		But one of the reasons for the foundation is I've been capitalizing it myself.
		It's rather new, and I'm hoping there will be more donations by people who realize that women do need that kind of training and that kind of education before they go in there, before they get out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, is that what your foundation does?
unidentified		In other words, what we're going to do, absolutely.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		The men, you know, the boys don't need that training because, you know, boys somehow are taught early on, you know, you've got to grow older, you've got to go to school, you've got to get a degree, you've got to go out there, you've got to support a family, you've got to be this, you've got to be that.
		Men are taught that early on, the strategy is set.
		And like I said before, they have a network they're going to walk right into.
		You know, it's that whole brotherhood out there.
		It's that whole boys' network.
		They help each other.
		So my concern isn't for the boys.
		I have two boys.
		I'm not concerned about them.
		If they're going to be smart, they're going to make it.
		They don't need my help.
		It's the girls I'm concerned with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's lay this right out.
		Let's say a young lady enters the workplace fresh out of college.
		She's basically taking your advice.
		She becomes a secretary.
		She starts showing a lot of leg during dictation in hopes of advancement.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm assuming she's also taking more courses on the side so that she's educating herself towards any All right, fine, we'll throw that in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, the point I'm getting to here is the boss comes around the desk and he starts making the moves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess the question is, can she succeed without follow-through?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, men and women have played the cat and dog game for thousands of years.
		I mean, this is not a new game.
		This is a game that exists all over, you know, in social clubs, everywhere.
		You know, cat and dog, cat and mouse.
		I mean, women have played that game and have kept it going and going and going and going.
		That's a very good game.
		And women know how to do that.
		I don't know why women are so taken aback all of a sudden that they have no clue what they're supposed to do.
		They know what to do.
		They've been doing it their whole life.
		You can handle the same game in the office.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the question is, can you get where you want to go without going all the way?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I'm not advocating, you know, sleep with the boss, and that's the only way you're going to do it.
		When I tell you sleep with the employer, it's because you're going to sleep with someone in the office anyway.
		But certainly women can definitely move up.
		Look, the whole idea is what we were talking about before.
		Women age differently than men.
unidentified		It's true.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Women have a sexual asset, but they also have one other thing that leaves them very, very quickly.
		It's called youth.
		And that is a tremendous asset for a woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're instructing them basically to use it before they lose it, right?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It is crucial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Catherine.
unidentified		I'm calling from Salem, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And love your show.
		I'm a longtime listener.
		I'm also a feminist, and I'm a liberal Democrat.
		All those scary things thrown in together.
		And I figure you must be doing still another paranormal show tonight because Rosalie is obviously from another planet.
		Either that or the state of Oregon is from another planet.
		I'm trying to figure out if this is an East Coast, West Coast thing or what.
		My male friends will absolutely crack up tomorrow when I tell them about this.
		I feel like I'm listening to the 1950s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in a way you are In other words, she is saying the feminist movement came along and changed originally good, in a good way, nearly everything, and then went in the wrong direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so in a way, you are listening to the 1950s because, folks, that's what was going on back then.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in the 1950s, women thought that they would advance themselves by sleeping with a boss and marrying him.
		And usually that's exactly what happened.
		Women did not think of owning the companies.
		I mean, it is a very different time.
		Although, women had the right idea in the 50s that sexuality was definitely a weapon to be used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Different goal, different goal, different goal, same method.
unidentified		And I want to say something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're breaking up.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		P.L., you're breaking up on us.
unidentified		Pal, talking to the phone.
		I own my own business.
		And one thing that hasn't been brought up either, I mean, Rosalie, you've been kind of all over the map, and I know it's kind of hard to do this, but I can't count how many times you've used the word manipulate.
		And in mind, it's an important word.
		Pardon me?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It's an important word.
		I think it's a bad word.
		I mean, not a bad word.
		That's the way the real world works, and that's the way business operates.
unidentified		No, and you think that people don't manipulate out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the hell they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The world is full of manipulation.
unidentified		But I can tell you, with her attitude, I would not hire you to work for me because manipulators are easy to spot.
		I don't like to work with them.
		And I know a lot of people who don't like to work with manipulative people.
		And I don't know.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a typical female reaction.
		It really is.
		Please, you know, females walk around saying, oh, let's stop using those bad words and let's not do the things that the guys do.
		But you know something?
		The guys own the world.
		So I don't agree with that.
unidentified		More men are insulted by what you say.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Men are insulted?
unidentified		My male friends would be very insulted by what you're saying.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You must have a very unique group.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		I just, I'm not trying to be a prude or something, but the idea that, you know, manipulate...
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		They've got to go and have a co-borrower sign for a loan.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
unidentified		I mean, they can regenerate the business.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, that one woman has a business.
		Do you know how many women can't get off the ground, can't negotiate for goods, don't get the same kind of credit rating that men do?
		All of those things are manipulations.
		You've got to manipulate.
		You've got to use whatever you can to do whatever you've got to do to get the money in the power.
unidentified		It's important being straightforward.
unidentified		It just is always kind of working on the power.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, women don't work being straightforward.
		It works on occasion for men.
		It doesn't for women.
unidentified		Well, it has for me and my colleagues.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're very lucky then.
unidentified		No?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What kind of business, by the way, are you in?
unidentified		Advertising in public relations.
		And I mean, you know, more power to you if you want to advertise yourself that way.
		But I'm telling you, you would be laughed out of this particular community.
		It wouldn't work here.
		So that's what I'm trying to figure out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, advertising, though, is the very heart of the good old boy world, isn't it, Rosalie?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
		I don't know about being laughed out of your community, but I can tell you that the rest of the world, and I say that, you know, world, not New York or this country, but the world, is not laughing.
		And that's why I'm on the show, because they actually took it very seriously and are very interested and are very curious.
		So obviously, if there's a curiosity about it, it means I've struck a nerve.
		It wasn't my intention to strike that nerve.
		I was really just doing it for myself.
unidentified		Well, that's great.
		I just, what bothers me is that, you know, I feel like I'm hearing stereotypes.
		There's just no reason for that.
		And I'd also like to know what you'd suggest for minority, like African-American males, because they obviously do not have the power that you're saying women don't have the power.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I am not concerned with any male because you know why?
		It's the women who are third and fourth class citizens in this country.
		Don't you realize that?
		I mean, women are the ones that run to the shelters, and women are the ones that get beaten up by men, and women are the ones that don't have money, and women are the ones that vote in a president that's an adulterer because he's going to give them out handouts.
		I mean, women are the lowest, lowest, lowest people in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now she got you politically as well.
unidentified		Yeah, oh, yeah, he's got the Democrat in me.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the bottom line is that women are lower than men.
unidentified		Well, see, anyway, I'm lucky enough to know men that don't treat me that way, and I've always been nurtured and had mentors and have good male friends.
		And I just think maybe you've had some bad experiences with males in business because I think it's insulting to men.
		It's insulting to women.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't care if it's insulting to men.
		Who cares if I insult men?
		You know, I think too many women, you know, too many feminists run around being concerned about all the men that are being insulted.
		Let's have a little concern about all the women that are being beaten up.
		Can we do something about them?
		What are we doing about them?
unidentified		Well, that's kind of a ludicrous comment because anybody who calls themselves a feminist cares about those kinds of issues.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What are we doing?
		We care about the issues and you sit and debate it, but what are you doing about it?
		We had a China conference just two years ago.
		All the women ran to China.
		We came back from China.
		What did we do?
		We went to China.
		We sat there moaning and groaning that the accommodations weren't what we wanted.
		We came back.
		I didn't see anything different.
		I see the same shelters going up.
		I mean, look, you know, let's wake up, okay?
		Women are the ones that need the help in this country.
unidentified		Well, I think we're doing a pretty good job.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What are we doing?
		Oh, we're building one more shelter.
		I'm sorry.
unidentified		I just think that social change takes more than 20 years.
unidentified		I graduated from college in 1977, and that's when the feminist movement was really...
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It's gotten worse.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we've been building more shelters in the last 20 years, not fewer.
unidentified		I could see if we were on the decline.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, if you read the newspapers, I don't know about in your hometown, but here in New York, when I look at the papers and look at all the charity events that are going on, it's just for one more shelter.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Is it any different in your community?
unidentified		Pardon me?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Is it different in your community?
unidentified		No, of course we have shelters.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And we're building more.
unidentified		But you're getting into some other, so we have a bigger population.
unidentified		People are more likely to report things.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, what I'm trying to tell women is, instead of running around building the shelters and debating the issues, let's deal with the real problem.
		And the real problem is that women have no money, have no means of making money, have no economic power.
		We wouldn't have to deal with all the other issues and the shelters.
		And the way women are going to get the money and the power is to educate themselves, is to know what they want, is to use their sexuality as a weapon, and to get somewhere.
		That's what I'm saying.
unidentified		I guess.
		Well, I've done all that without having to use my sexuality.
		I mean, if that's what you want to do, I just would like to looking like a woman and being with a woman.
		I mean, is there a problem with that?
		No, I think I do look like a woman.
		I'm not sure what your definition of looking like.
		I don't have the internet, so I don't know what you look like, not that it matters.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I mean, well, what do you look like as a woman?
		I mean, I don't know.
		Maybe you look the same way I do.
unidentified		Well, that's exactly right.
unidentified		I don't see what your point is there.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		My point is that most women, the majority of women think that they have to look like men, that they have to dress like men.
unidentified		Oh, that's what they say.
		And they have to act like men.
		They have to be 80s stuff.
		They look ugly.
		No.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		In the 90s, women don't look like that anymore?
unidentified		Oh, for God's sake.
unidentified		Of course not.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Not here they don't.
		I don't know, again.
		Where do you live?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I want to know what community you come from.
unidentified		I'm in Salem, Oregon.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Salem, Oregon.
unidentified		A very conservative town, it might.
		I could wear capital city.
		Uh-huh.
		I mean, I don't know what you mean by dressing like men.
		We wear whatever we want.
		Obviously, if I go to a business meeting, I have on a nice pantsuit or a business suit or whatever.
		I'm not going in an expensive job.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You just hit it on the head.
unidentified		Well, what do you want me to wear?
unidentified		What are these sleeves shorts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wait a minute, wait a minute.
		She said, what do you want me to wear?
		Answer that.
unidentified		Should I wear a tank top and shorts to show off my sexuality?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Instead of a business suit or, you know, trousers and a jacket and a shirt, yeah, I would wear short, which is, let me tell you what I wear.
		I mean, I'm an attorney and I go into court and I go to a lot of business transactions for millions of dollars.
		And I'll wear a mini leather skirt and I will wear a top, a silk top, but I will definitely show cleavage.
		And I will wear a leather jacket that's open and I will wear fishnet stockings and short boots.
		Absolutely.
		That sounds good.
		And you know something?
unidentified		It doesn't challenge me.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I wear power.
unidentified		Under any circumstances, that's what you're not.
		I would prefer to be in my jeans and my sweatshirt.
		When I go to a business meeting, I wear what's comfortable.
		But fishnets and black leather jackets are going to be a little bit more comfortable.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But the idea is to be comfortable.
		The idea is to sell yourself as something and to open up more of a window of opportunity.
		You know, you don't go to business to be comfortable.
		Men don't go to business to be comfortable.
		They go to business to get ahead, make more money, and press the boss.
		That's the whole idea.
		If you want to be comfortable, stay home in the bathroom.
		That's when I want to be comfortable.
		When I go into business, and you know the thing, I'm very comfortable looking like a sexy woman anyway, but I'm trying to promote an image.
		I want the other side to look at me and remember me, not only for my brain and what I'm saying, but also to remember the visual.
		Because it's a visual they're going to keep with them when they leave my office.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sure of that.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's the idea.
		I want them to call me again.
		I want the business to come back.
unidentified		I get called back all the time wearing sometimes my little business suits, and I've had the same clients for 10 years, so I guess maybe the answer is you can do what you want, but there's a lot of us out there that are perfectly content to just work well with men and not flash our sexuality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but look, go back to the beginning of the program.
		This woman works for 40 banks.
		They wouldn't even talk to her.
		That was a man's world.
		Then she began to go make personal appearances and get a thigh in the door, and now she represents 40 banks.
unidentified		Well, so I know people who I represent 50 clients.
		I don't understand the 40 banks.
		Big deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, well, it is a big deal if you understand how she was unable to even get away from.
unidentified		Maybe it was her female.
unidentified		I mean, we don't know that for sure.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, how do you know?
unidentified		It just wasn't they didn't like you, and maybe your sexuality did turn them on.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, the truth.
		No, I'm the only female attorney who represents banks in New York.
		I still am, and there isn't anybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, folks, we are at a breakpoint here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, can you do another hour?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm up.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you stay with us for a moment?
unidentified		Sure, I will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It'll be a few.
		We have a newscast coming up.
		So once again, folks, if you would like to see Rosalie Osiris, what I would suggest is a quick trip to my website.
		It is www.artbell.com.
		Go down into the guest area.
		There are now two photographs there that we had to kind of put together very quickly.
		But you'll get the idea.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She's got that a day beside some kind of music on.
		You won't have to think twice.
		she's you call me up at two in the morning honey is running up the telephone wire Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Economic survival.
unidentified		It is becoming more difficult every year, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Working a nine-to-five job?
		Well, I'll tell you something.
		You'll survive, but you're never going to get rich.
unidentified		Unless...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baby, come and get it.
unidentified		Baby, come and get it.
		unless you're willing to consider doing something for yourself Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Rosalie Osiris, and she is in a place where the sun is probably getting ready to come up in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you beginning to see the hints of some rays out there?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's sunny already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's sunny already.
		Keys to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
		Good morning.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Cindy in Kansas City.
		Hey there.
		The mentality I seem to be hearing, Rosalie, is if you can't beat them, join them.
		Meaning men?
		You know, what they've done to women all these years is wrong.
		What they've done to us all these years is wrong.
		And it's like you want to just turn it around and do it back to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you've got a real feminist here now.
unidentified		Well, I really am not.
unidentified		Really, I'm a libertarian, to tell you the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's your political philosophy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking now about the sexism angle of this.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure why you need to use your sexuality.
unidentified		It's not all that hard to be more intelligent and witty than men.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, it's quite hard to get, but we're not getting anywhere by just being smarter and wittier.
		I mean, doing nothing isn't getting us anywhere.
		So why should I not do something?
		I'm not really playing the man's game.
		I learned how to play the man's game.
		I learned the rules.
		I understood the game.
		And then I just made up my own rules.
		See, I don't play the man's game.
		I'm playing my game.
		But I first had to understand.
unidentified		Since hearing from you, you know, men have done it to us for years.
unidentified		What's wrong with us doing it?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is wrong with doing that?
unidentified		Well, I know that you're playing the same game that they've played for all these years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's nature's game, dear.
		And so it's a good question.
		You're right.
		Men have been doing it for years.
		So what is wrong with women doing it?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		It was wrong when men did it.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you're still doing it.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Have you stopped men from doing it?
unidentified		Well, just because they do it doesn't mean that we have to do it.
unidentified		You know, I'm sorry.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I want to take some action.
unidentified		What's wrong with helping women get business loans and education and be politically active to change?
		Well, you've got to do that, but how are you going to do that?
		Women need to have money and power in the business loans.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		They need to change laws and own banks.
unidentified		You don't need to act like a slut to do that stuff.
		Look, giving something that you're never planning on doing.
		Going to dinner with your CEO is completely inappropriate.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, please.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Stop telling women.
unidentified		Now, if you've been with a group, that's different.
		But if the CEO asks you out, if you're a professor associate in the office, you know what he's wanting.
		You know.
		It's obvious.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't mean you've got to give him anything, but it does mean that you have an opportunity to talk to the CEO and let him know how smart you are.
unidentified		That comes out in the office.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Can't women do that anymore?
unidentified		what do you think that one of your own opinion why i don't leave why do you really think a lot What?
unidentified		Why do you need to lead him on and let him think?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Because it's the only way I'm going to get his attention.
		Otherwise, he's going to get the man moved up, not me.
unidentified		You know, I realize deals are done over dinner and deals are done in the men's room.
unidentified		I'm not going in the men's room either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And let's face it, deal with you.
unidentified		I wish I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's face it, Deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deals are also done in bed.
unidentified		It seems to me that if you continue this, you will never change men's minds about women.
unidentified		They will just always think that they're right, that they were right all along.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm not trying to change men's minds.
		I'm trying to change women's minds about how to get up and move ahead in their careers.
		I could care less what men think.
unidentified		Well, you know, it's been my experience that even the homeliest, ugliest woman in the world, if she has good ideas that will expand business, who's going to hear them?
unidentified		You will be listened to.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Who's she going to tell them to?
unidentified		You make an appointment with your boss, or you make an appointment with his boss.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's going to make the appointment for you.
		I mean, that's the idea.
		The boss isn't going to make the appointment for you.
		You're not going to be able to get into anybody's office.
unidentified		You're going to be able to do it with your own ideas.
unidentified		If I have ever worked, it's been an open-door policy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you both something that's true.
		Listen to me for a sec, both of you, because it's true with men too.
		When I was younger, I was very talented in radio.
		Very talented.
		I had wonderful ideas.
		Ideas that absolutely would have made a number one show and would have worked.
		But, you know, I was a nobody.
		Nobody listened to me.
		Only after I achieved some degree of success did the professional ears begin to listen.
		So you've got to achieve a certain position before people even begin to listen.
		That's true, even in the man's world.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a man's world, that's correct.
		You do have to achieve something in order to have some credibility and be heard.
		But as a woman, it doesn't matter how much you achieve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's even harder.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It's impossible.
		It just doesn't matter.
		So the only way you're going to get the opportunity to be heard is to be looked at first and be recognized.
		That's what I'm saying.
unidentified		And women need help to get out there and get their own businesses going instead of playing this stupid little game.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But look, you're absolutely right.
		But the only people who are going to help women get out there and get their own businesses and give them money are women once they're in that position.
		Because women can't do it now.
		Men aren't giving the money to women.
		Men are giving the money to other men.
unidentified		Well, that's just not true.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		This isn't true.
unidentified		You can go get small business loans.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Can you?
unidentified		You can get loans for small minorities.
		Women are minorities.
		Get a minority loan.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Look what you just said.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Women are minorities.
unidentified		Yes, they are.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Don't you find that a pitiful statement?
unidentified		Yeah, I do.
unidentified		And in that respect, I do agree with you.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, that's the only respect that counts.
		Yeah, women are minorities.
unidentified		Your motives, though, are what I object to.
unidentified		I think it makes women look worse than we already look to men.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know something?
		You're going to remain a minority if you continue doing the same thing you're doing.
		Because, you know, really women are the ones that still make the world go round.
		We're the ones that have the children.
		We're the ones that deal with the home.
		Regardless of how successful I am and how many businesses I own, when my children get sick, even with two nannies, I'm the one that gets called.
		My husband doesn't get called.
		I'm the one that gets called because I'm still mommy.
unidentified		But you just set up yourself.
		Once you get out there and get something done and get some recognition, then people will listen.
		Yeah, but call her, you know something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie is absolutely right about the way men look at women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what she has realized.
unidentified		She encourages that she's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're fighting a law of nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's simply accepting it and using it.
unidentified		So just accept it and, you know, just accept everything that comes your way.
		Don't never try to change anything.
		You aren't trying to change anything.
		You're going to change the economic imbalance.
		No, you're not.
		Because this man, once you get done with him, is still going to look at the next woman coming down the line the same damn way.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a stupid woman.
		I'm not talking to the stupid women.
		I'm trying to enlighten them and empower them.
		I'm not trying to make women remain stupid.
		I'm not telling women, you know, go have a fling and then go back to your secretarial desk.
		That's not the idea.
		I'm telling women, get smart, learn a trade, get an education, take the courses you want, set the goals, get the strategy, and then attack.
		That's what I'm telling women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll leave it there and move on.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osaris.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		I love you, Art.
		You're great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Bob?
unidentified		I'm in Arcadia.
		My name is Anastasia.
		And I'm a feminist.
		I have no problem with dressing sexy.
		I think it's great.
		And I can understand both sides.
		I can understand on one side is Rosalie, and I see I'm extreme.
		And on the other side is the feminist who wants to protect women who have been molested, who have been raped, and who are tired of being looked at as sexual objects.
		I can understand both sides.
		And I think we're talking about a lot of issues here.
		First of all, we have rural versus urban.
		If you came up here to Arcata and you dressed in mini skirt and fishnet stockings, the judge might throw you out.
		I mean, it's really conservative, and that's where we got the woman, Kate, from Oregon.
		I can see how she would take that position.
		And I could see how Osley is in New York.
		It's a totally different situation.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, in New York State, judges don't walk around with garter straps.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		No, no, no.
		I mean, I've lived in New Jersey, and I've lived here on the west coast, and it's too different, especially on the northwest, way up here in the boondocks.
		It's professional.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It's very different.
unidentified		And so there are different mentalities and different things work in different places.
		I don't have anything against women who want to use their sexuality to get ahead.
		If that's what helps, fine, that's great.
		And I am a feminist.
		And in fact, I work for a battery women's shelter.
		And I recently went to an honoring women's dinner.
		And I wore the red sequence dress with the high heels and the stockings.
		And I enjoyed it.
		And I got some flack for it from women who I believe their position was, you know, we're tired of women being looked at as a sexual object.
		And I can understand them.
		They're trying to help women who have been raped and women who have been abused and women who are survivors of that sort of thing.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		So they're trying to keep that job.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		So the more battered women there are, the more shelters that they can administrate, the more jobs these women are going to have.
unidentified		I won't say that that's not true.
		There are some.
		I mean, it's a bureaucracy and bureaucracies, you know, work for themselves.
		But there are also some who really want to help and their focus is there and that's why they take that position.
		What's their focus?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what are they doing for these batted women?
unidentified		Feminism has many faces.
		I'm a feminist and I was there in my red sequence dress and my high heels and my sneakers and I mean my stockings and I felt beautiful and great and I had no problem with that.
		I had about 50% of the women tell me, you look great, that's wonderful.
		And I had another percentage saying, just looking at me like, what the hell are you doing dressed like that here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here, listen to me.
		Both of you, here's a good fact, right on the mark.
		Art and Rosalie, a leather mini skirt, fishnets, stilettos?
		Good Lord.
		Rosalie feeds men the picture they want.
		Okay, I personally think it is distasteful to flaunt cleavage in a courtroom.
		Whatever, I guess that's East Coast stuff.
		Admittedly, some of the guys I know would hoot and howl in their Neanderthal way at such a site, but mostly the men I know would find that type of, quote, staple in her navel, unquote, pin-up girl look, fine for a magazine in the bathroom, but not a courthouse.
unidentified		If it's working for her, what do they have to say about that?
		It's working for her.
		She's got all this business.
		It's obviously working for her in New York.
		But I don't think it would work in this little rural town where we have very conservative judges, where you have judges throwing women out clients.
		I mean, women who are playing this because they're not wearing a bra.
		I mean, they're having...
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Did they feel them up?
unidentified		No, they looked at them.
		Well, you can tell.
		If a woman's wearing a t-shirt without a bra, you can tell.
		but I'm saying that there's different, there's different mentalities and up here...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are geographic and cultural differences across the country.
unidentified		But, you know, not with work in one country.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Not in male-dominated arenas and not in the legal system.
		And really, there are no differences.
		You know, a judge is a judge is a judge anywhere in the country, okay?
		And lawyers, male lawyers are the same anywhere in the country.
		But that's the way they are.
		Everywhere.
		Conservative judges.
unidentified		They're going to have a problem with that.
		I don't know if you ever saw the movie My Cousin Vinny, but it's got that kind of a theme.
		The man is in a small town, and he's dressed New York, and his girlfriend is dressed in New York, and they don't take him seriously at first.
		In fact, they give him a lot of flats.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		There you go, but they want to do it.
unidentified		And then later on, they did because they were intelligent, and that's what really matters.
unidentified		But when you talk about presentation, which is what you were talking about, presentation, and getting ahead.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You just make an argument.
unidentified		It depends on who you are making your presentation to.
unidentified		You change it to accommodate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, did you hear what she said?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You change to accommodate the person.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Well, I understand.
		I understand business.
		Business is business.
		And we're not going to change business overnight.
		And there may be some changes, like women having their own businesses.
		And there are some men who are sensitive men who don't necessarily think that way.
		It's not the majority.
		I would say the majority would probably be more interested in somebody who looked really sexy and paid more attention.
		That's the way the world seems to be.
		I can also understand the feminist who comes from the position where she wants to say, let's change that.
		I can understand that too.
		Realistically, I think that's going to take a long time.
		And if you want to really get there now, Rosalie in New York might probably be doing really well.
		But if she came up here, she might have some trouble with the conservative judges.
		I really do think so.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I think if more women would stop taking the negative position, it's almost like a cop-out.
		You know, all we women say is we want, we want, we want.
		But when it comes to action, unfortunately, it's the men who play the game and go out and take the risks and don't mind falling down and getting up again.
		We women seem to be very wimpy when it comes to that.
		We want, but we're not willing to take the risk.
		If all the women in the entire country went and did what I did, what is the country going to do?
		Are they going to close up everything?
		We women really are the support staff for the entire country.
		You're not going to have banks close down.
		You're not going to have companies close down.
		They're going to have to deal with it.
		Think about it.
		If you don't show up for your boss, are you going to sit at the computer and type?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to sit and imagine a world in which everybody is Rosalie or some version thereof.
		Wow.
		Things would change, Rosalie.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, what I think would happen is that men would soon be second-class citizens.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that I sit here and think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm on.
unidentified		Hey, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, we're all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in San Francisco.
		Okay.
		Rosalie, your main office is in Long Island, is that right?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Rosalie has a very regional take on what a smart, happening woman is.
		And I worked in Manhattan for years for some of the states.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have an office in Manhattan, too.
unidentified		You know, all over the state, though.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not you.
unidentified		You're in Long Island because you have a Long Island attitude.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But you know, until two years ago, my main office was on Park and 32nd, if you know Manhattan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, San Francisco is not exactly the suburbs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Come on, folks.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said San Francisco is not exactly the suburbs.
unidentified		No, no, no.
		I'm saying that she's not really in the big leagues.
		And in the big leagues, people like her are just seen as clowns.
		You know something?
		The big league is how much money.
		And I really object to the way that she overrides everybody that tries to talk to her.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, let me ask you this.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What do you do for a living?
unidentified		I work for Sony Pictures.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You work for Sony Pictures?
unidentified		Right.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		As what?
unidentified		I'm an art director for them.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're an art director for them?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm a creative director for them.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Do you have an interest in Sony Pictures?
unidentified		Yes, I do, as a matter of fact.
		What's the interest?
		What?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What's the interest?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Do you own a piece of the company?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, are you one of the main people?
unidentified		I have a lot of companies that are exercisable every five years.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, exercisable.
unidentified		Do you need to know all this stuff?
unidentified		Do I need to know how to do it?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Because, you know, if you were really understood how business works, it doesn't really matter where you are.
		What matters is how big your account is, how influential you are in the world.
		You can sit anywhere and influence and have power and have money.
		You know, most people aren't sitting on Park Avenue.
unidentified		They're sitting in their yacht in the Caribbean.
		What?
		What's your biggest client?
		What bank?
		I have a lot.
		Citibank, Chase.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I can give you all the major institutional lenders.
		They're all my clients.
		There are banks that you do business with.
unidentified		Big banks.
		There's only five major banks in the world that are worth it.
		But you know something?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		There are maybe five major banks in the world, but there are about 200 other banks that you don't know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You asked her to name some of the clients.
unidentified		She did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're the biggest.
unidentified		For the Long Island branches, I'm sure she's great, but she's not a clown in Manhattan.
		I've been to meetings many times.
		I lived in Manhattan for 10 years.
		I worked for Saatchi & Saatchi, the biggest advertising company in the world.
		I made $60 million for General Mills in six weeks.
		How much did you make for yourself?
		And anybody that walked into a meeting dressed like her is a clown and just would not be paid any attention to no matter how brilliant their ideas are.
		People in Manhattan and in the major centers of the world dress like business people, speak like business people and they look plenty sexy and attractive without having to dress like a clown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, on that note, both of you hold on for a moment because I think that needs to be answered.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
		"I'm feeling in your heart, I know you like what you see.
		You hold me, I give you all that you need.
		Now you're never around me.
		You're so excited, I can see you getting hotter.
		Oh baby, I'll take you down, I'll take you down, down.
		And no one's ever gone before." You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it just occurred to me.
		I'm coming back with this.
		You know why?
unidentified		Tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's because, you know, these young ladies, they were the daughters of a preacher man.
		They used to sing gospel.
		then they change their image their wardrobe the way they move And now they're their what is this?
		They're making millions.
		image, folks.
unidentified		Hold me If you want that you need Wrap your love around me Think about it.
		anyway back to our guests in a moment You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Rosalie Osaris is our guest.
		And by the way, her photograph is on my website right now if you'd like to take a look.
		And if you don't want to take a look by now, then check for a heartbeat or something or another.
		You'll see two quickly scanned photographs up there in the new items list at www.artbell.com.
		Here's the facts I just received, and then we'll go back to our caller.
		Art, I've got to hand it to you.
		Never has the power of woman's sexuality over men been better demonstrated than on your show this morning.
		I have listened to hundreds of your shows, and never have I ever heard you sound so absurd.
		You're acting like a 13-year-old schoolboy trying his best to get the attention and approval of a 15-year-old schoolgirl down the street.
		And it certainly goes to show that a great deal of what Rosalie is saying is working.
		And he's exactly right.
		He's exactly right.
		Rosalie, I do react that way to you and to other beautiful women.
		And that's, to me, like a law of nature.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And I'm glad you react that way to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't apologize for it either.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And why should you?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		And we've been on the phone for five hours, so obviously you also know I can walk and talk and breathe at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I bet you can breathe.
		All right.
		Carler, you're back on the line.
unidentified		Well, I appreciate the lead that you just gave me.
		I think that there's another side of this issue, which is you have to look at what people are up to as well as what they look like.
		And guys that have been around, who have lived in major metropolitan areas like Manhattan, deal with women like Rosalie a lot.
		And you can't be suckered in by the outside package.
		You have to deal with the real meat and potatoes of what's going on.
		Also, her advice is very good for women who have no talent or feel that they have no talent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it really isn't, because her point was at the end of the day, you've got to be able to do the job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you get to the top of the scale in any business that you're in, if you don't perform, the bottom line is going to destroy you or make you.
unidentified		I'll tell you, someone else said, if you perform, you're going to be noticed regardless of what you look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's where she argues with you, and I'm afraid she's correct.
unidentified		I'm afraid that in New York she's not correct.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I didn't realize where you were coming from until just now, you know, when you kind of gave yourself away.
		I mean, first of all, you know, you seem to be concentrating on metropolitan areas for some reason.
		But I think that guys like you use, you know, well, you know, she's from Long Island, she's this, you know, you're going to, as a defense because really you know that I am right.
		And you, a man like yourself, really wouldn't know how to deal.
		You'd realize how vulnerable you really are.
		And I can understand men putting up the defense because if they don't, they're not going to be in the same position they were.
		So now I understand how you're thinking.
		If you've dealt with women like myself before, then you know how effective and powerful we really are.
unidentified		I know that you really don't run anything and that if you really try to sleep your way to the top, you're only going to sleep your way to the middle.
		And you couldn't even get to the top of the law firm you were going to conquer.
		You had to go out and start your own law firm in the hinterlands of Long Island, which just to inform our audience who doesn't know New York is the middle of the boonies.
		And this is a person who's really fucking up.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely crap.
		I'm sorry.
		I don't usually say that on the radio stations.
		But you really are.
		And I want to tell the listeners not to listen to you because you're so full of garbage.
		You have no clue.
		And you know something?
unidentified		The reason you thought that was unique to that.
		That's right.
		I realized that you're a jerk.
		You really are a jerk, Rosalie, and that's why I would never do business with somebody like that that advertises their jerkiness in the way that they act, the way that they talk, the way they comport themselves, in their rituous clothing.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Be my guest.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Please, I acquiesce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm midway between Arcata and San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I'm Katie.
unidentified		And I keep going back and forth between wanting to kill you, Rosalie, and kiss you.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they either love me or hate me.
unidentified		One thing that keeps coming to my mind is 20 years ago when I was young and I had a boss physically manhandle me.
		That's the kind of situation that I get afraid of.
		And yet I think of when I was an assistant manager of a major dine store and my sexuality did make a big difference.
		If I dressed appropriately and looked nice, I had less problems with male and female customers.
		My manager did listen to me.
		And also while I was waiting, I realized you're not saying use sex to get to the top.
		Sexuality, and there's a major difference.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		A big difference, yes.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But you know, manhandling in what way?
unidentified		Grabbing my breasts.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Well, you know, I may have been a little different than you.
		If you would have grabbed my breasts, I would have grabbed something of his also.
		I believe you should fight a tiger with another tiger and not run away and be scared.
		If you would have done that to him, I'm sure that he would have backed off very, very quickly.
unidentified		20 years later, I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you two.
		Let us move on.
		Thanks for the call.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osaris.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		What's her name again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie Osaris.
unidentified		Well, I think she's a bitch.
unidentified		And I think you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a way to start out a conversation.
unidentified		that you ought to be ashamed of yourself the way you the way you think and i think that people like you To Rosalie.
		I think people like you, Rosalie, are a germ or cancer in this country.
		And I wonder, you know what?
		My mother, my grandmother, if she heard you talking tonight, if they listened to this radio show, my grandmother, she's 82 years old, she'd take you up in a woodshed and kick your butt.
		Who the hell do you think you are talking the way you are?
		I bet you don't even go to church, bitch.
		Bye.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		I don't go to church.
		I'm Jewish.
		I go to temple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I'm Israeli, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, are you, really?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Rosalie O'Sarris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, I think I should deserve the right to tell you where I'm coming from before I ask my questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, where are you coming from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, where are you calling from?
unidentified		Michigan City, Indiana.
		All right.
		I think that there is a double standard, and everybody has it.
		Just like when she called, said the president was in adultery, it's okay, you know, if she's in it.
		So we did, and the women do have an obligation to bring up the moral standards of this world.
		But on the other hand, she's right, and to a certain extent, and the pendulum is swinging, swinging, swinging.
		The feminist from the 60s has come out, and we know they're lesbians.
		That's their biggest thing, is that they hate men.
		And on the other side, so prostitutes hate men.
		So there's in between there, you know, that people like us, you know.
		I think women should not be wearing jeans.
		What do little kids think, you know, from a rear end?
		What's a man and what's a woman?
		Women should wear skirts.
		And they don't have to be all the way down to the floor, but they don't have to show anybody parts.
		They should be not exposed either.
		We have a moral obligation.
		On the other hand, the truth of the matter is that men do like to look at nice-looking women.
		And if you don't have time to put your makeup on, you're too sick to go to work.
		Really, the way I look at it, you're too sick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know, I absolutely have no argument about that.
		I mean, the facts who faxed me a little while ago and said that I was reacting as a star-struck child in love or something.
		You know, basically that's true.
		I mean, that is the way men react.
		Now, we can argue this a hundred million different ways, and I bet you don't even go to church, bitch, and that kind of stuff.
		But the fact of the matter is, this is like a law of nature that we're discussing here.
		And even those people who are calling up and raving and ranting at you, in their hearts, they know you're right.
		And they know it by their own feelings, not by what you're saying, but by their own feelings.
		They just refuse to admit it and get angry when they hear it.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osaris.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm up in Bellingham, Washington.
		Okay.
		Rosalie, you're just not going to be taken seriously, not in this neighborhood.
		And people who follow your advice are going to have a real limited shelf life.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		A limited shelf life.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have a longer shelf life now?
unidentified		If you're making it only on your looks, girl, you're going to have a real limited shelf life.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but you probably didn't listen to the whole show.
		Yeah, I did.
		I keep saying the same thing.
unidentified		Confidence, you're talking think and you're talking education.
unidentified		Those people who get you placed, if you're dependent on some man to say, yeah, you're a pretty girl, I'll listen to you, then you've got a real shelf.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		But who owns the company?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Who else is her?
unidentified		And then you don't have anything else.
unidentified		That's all you've got to offer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that is, obviously you've not been listening to the program.
unidentified		Yeah, I have been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, ma'am, ma'am, she has to.
unidentified		You've talked about achieving a certain position.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what position they're going to look for her in.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't even have to defend myself because I know what position I'm in.
		I own six companies, two law firms.
		I mean, you know, I don't have to defend what my position is.
unidentified		Maybe you're not even going to make the dress code.
unidentified		They have a dress code in a lot of places that you can do.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I don't have to make the money.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I make the dress code.
unidentified		You do now, but you had to leave your company to do it.
unidentified		You can't.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I would never have made.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Don't you understand?
unidentified		We have a lot of support system out here so women.
unidentified		People can get, but I don't need support systems.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		See, that's the difference between me and you.
		The women out there still need a support system.
		I don't need one.
		I have enough money.
		I don't need support systems.
		No one's got to help me out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most people don't.
		I said it in an advertisement a little while ago.
		You can work for somebody else and you'll survive.
		You might even do okay.
		You might get a vacation.
		You might, you know, the nine-to-five thing.
unidentified		But you're never going to get rich.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, the other interesting thing that I keep hearing from your callers is the obligation of a woman to teach her children morals.
		I haven't heard one person yet say it is the obligation of the parents.
		I noticed that it's only the woman.
		And I find that incredible, how people still think of women having certain responsibilities and God forbid she decides to do other things or to use her sexuality, which, you know, when you're raising children, you are using your sexuality as a woman.
		So I am just amazed at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie O'Sarris.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, Art.
		This Mike in Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Hi, Rosanna.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie.
unidentified		Rosalie, I'm sorry.
		I was looking at my TV schedule here.
		They chopped you off here on WTN the last 30 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll be solved soon.
unidentified		Good.
		I recommended it, too.
		I called in in a nice way.
		Rosanna, Rosalie.
		Thank you.
		My hat's off to you.
		I applaud you.
		At the same time I say that, it's no revelation of what you've done.
		It isn't nothing but chemistry.
		And if you just look back through recorded history and mythology, the women that have always stepped forward and have made their place from Adam and Eve to Cleopatra to Helen of Troy to Delilah and all of that have done it and they've done it by getting their thigh in the door.
		That's right.
		You know, you've got to get the attention first and then you can apply your tactics, your intelligence.
		And I have sit up all night long listening to this station and I hung up like Art Instructor too when men were calling in.
		I've had many companies.
		I'm retired now.
		I'm 51 years old, soon be 52.
		And I'm not retired because I want to be.
		Any man that sets up and says that, well take two twins that are identical, that are fashion models, if they walked into a public place and say they sold widgets or real estate or houses and one had on tight jeans and a silk blouse, showing a little cleavage, and one had on rebox and the other one had on high heels and an ankle bracelet, who do you think would get the deal or get the attention or get the appointment?
		Just something that small and all that.
		And I've had companies where I set up the sale and just the mere fact over the telephone of saying that I'll have one of our ladies call on you and iron out the differences, that got the appointment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that says it very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he really is exactly right, isn't he?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, what's more powerful and overwhelming than a sexy, smart woman?
		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no argument for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osaris.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I actually happen to disagree with the last caller, but I have a question for Rosalie.
		Go.
		If a woman had her bachelor's degree, what would she be better to spend her money on, getting her master's or plastic surgery?
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to assume that she's only 22 going for her master's.
		So I would go for one more year, get a master's.
		But I don't say don't do the plastic surgery.
		Do it as soon as you think you need it because you've got to look good also and you've got to keep the machinery going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that for an answer?
unidentified		Well, not too bad.
		I disagree with a lot of what you've said.
		I think that, as the gentleman said before, if somebody came in wearing Reeboks and jeans or high heels, I would buy the product that I needed, and I would judge the woman.
		You know, I'm not a slave to my...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These were twins in his analogy and selling equal widgets.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		I would buy from the one that was the better salesman.
		The one that was better dressed.
		I really, Art, really, I am disappointed in you in this show.
		I'm a big fan of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, look, I live with disappointment, sir.
		I live with it.
		I know.
		I just believe this, I believe she is correct.
		You can argue against it on a moral ground if you wish.
		I won't stop you from doing that.
		Everybody's going to believe what they want to believe.
		But I also know what is true.
unidentified		But I'm just not a slave to my sex drive.
unidentified		That's what it comes down to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, congratulations.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		I think most men are, though.
		There's a reason prostitution is around for thousands of years.
		There's a reason there are clubs with women dancing.
		And I don't have any problem with that.
		But there's a market for it.
unidentified		I agree.
unidentified		Otherwise, the women don't go.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Women don't patronize these places.
unidentified		Well.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		No, they don't.
		Not really.
		I do when I take my clients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chip and Dales.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't put Chip and Dales in the same category as topless table dancing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's a whole different ballgame.
		And women don't really get stimulated by that.
		They really just go there to have fun and have a few drinks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osaris.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Just a quick quote from Tim D. Leary, which was that women who strive to be man's equal lack ambition.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Women who strive to be man's equal lack ambition.
		Well, I'm not trying to be man's equal.
		I'm trying to be superior.
		Actually, I'm trying to be superior, not equal.
		I'm equal now already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a Tim V. Leary quote who presently orbits the Earth, by the way.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with the Rosalie Osiris, and we're about out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, y'all doing this evening?
unidentified		This is Paul in Cedar Park.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cedar Park, what?
unidentified		Cedar Park, Texas.
unidentified		Over the Skiller Tornadoes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'm so sorry about that.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it was pretty devastating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, we're about out of time.
unidentified		Okay, Miss Lee, I hope you don't take this personal.
		This is just my opinion.
		I know you've heard several opinions tonight.
		I feel that it's just a shame that a person of your intelligence, obviously you are intelligent.
		You're obviously a very high-caliber woman.
		You know what you want.
		You've gone and you've gotten it.
		However, it seems a little unfair to women who don't have that sexuality for you to go out and flaunt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, look, sir, we are out of time, and nobody ever said life is fair.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life is not fair.
		It's just what it is, you know.
		It's like getting a hand of cards dealt to you.
		Well, Rosalie, you have gone all the way.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did it feel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was good for me.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		It was good for me, too.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, we will again do this someday because you certainly stirred them up, and I'm in the business of stirring pots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a blast, actually.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rosalie, I hope you managed to get a nap before you've got to go off to work.
unidentified		I'll try, but I doubt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
rosalie osias ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's it, folks.
		We're out of time.
		Thank you very much.
		From the High Desert, I'm Art Bell.

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