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May 27, 1997 - Art Bell

02:51:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Rosalie Osias

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	Thank you.
	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	From the high desert in the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, across this great land, stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the pole, worldwide on the internet, There's about every corner covered there.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good morning, everybody!
	I'm Art Bell, and I've got a surprise for you coming up in a moment, as if I'm not nearly always full of them.
	A lot to do this morning.
	First of all, I would like to welcome some new radio stations.
	WREC-AM in Memphis, Tennessee.
	That's AM 600.
	Five thousand big ones covering a whole wide So, what a good beginning, huh?
	around memphis welcome and wb e n
	wb e n there's an old protocol letters from uh... buffalo new york
	greatly on board with you again are covering a wide swath
	uh... around buffalo and uh... that part of the oracle glad to have you on board
	as well what a good beginning huh
	in a moment Rosalie Osias.
	Now, you're probably going, huh?
	Who's Rosalie Osias?
	Well, I hope you're buckled in.
	When you find out, you're going to need to be buckled in.
	This is going to be fun.
	It relates to the Supreme Court decision, in some ways.
	In some ways, it does not.
	Actually, it does.
	Well, we'll decide as we go along.
	What the hell.
	Beijing is a radio that... Well, first of all, you know what?
	I'd better cover the serious news.
	At least 32 people have been killed by a string of powerful tornadoes and thunderstorms that literally ripped through central Texas, tossing vehicles into the air like toys, like in the movies.
	Um, destroying businesses and homes by the dozen.
	Police said the deadliest tornado killed at least 30 people when it literally obliterated homes in the small Williamson County town of Gerald, about 40 miles north of Austin.
	We are heard widely in that area.
	Stunned rescue teams said the death toll could rise higher during the night.
	Rescue workers tried to find victims and survivors in the rubble of at least 50 homes and trailer homes flattened by that tornado, which was at least, get this folks, 200 yards wide.
	At least six tornadoes were reported across four counties.
	That is the lead story and not a surprise.
	We have been talking in recent days about the more violent weather and it is yet another example of it and one of the things covered in my book and I'm just going to, I'm not going to have time to plug my book tonight except to tell you it's called The Quickening.
	It is the second printing, the first printing.
	I've never seen an entire first printing sell out in two weeks but ours did.
	Ours did.
	It was gone.
	And the second printing is here.
	It's still a first edition, and you can still get an autographed copy of my book.
	However, how long that will be going on, I cannot at this moment tell you.
	Not long, I suspect, at this rate.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from may twenty seventh
	nineteen ninety seven all right um... now to lead into rosalie
	here is an item uh... that really is going to do that for us uh...
	The U.S.
	Supreme Court decision uh... to allow a sexual harassment lawsuit against president clinton to go ahead immediately and it was nine zero by the way cast a hall over what was intended to be a week of triumph for the white house the signing of a historic security framework for europe in paris tuesday uh... is now under the poll the poll cast by the decision of the supreme court to allow uh...
	Apollo Jones to go ahead and go get the president in court.
	Now, for sexual, well, sexual harassment, I guess.
	Now, um, that's where my guest enters the scene in her own way.
	Rosalie Osias is president of the Osias Foundation.
	She has become the woman That women love to hate.
	Believe me not, men, you should see her photograph.
	Good heavens, we're going to have to arrange that.
	She's gorgeous.
	And yet, all she wanted to do was talk about, get this folks, using sex in the workplace for career advancement.
	Totally destroying the glass ceiling.
	Sending executives probably A flying through it.
	Over the last year, Osias has confronted the feminist movement over what she believes is the hypocrisy of its leadership.
	Angry over their studied indifference regarding the role of sex and sexuality in the workplace, she has debated, lectured, written, and even broadcast this issue until, get this, WOR Radio in New York canned her.
	Fired her.
	Over materials too graphic for even WOR.
	She counsels that being gender blind in the office doesn't mean you shouldn't flash thigh with cleavage to move ahead.
	So as you might imagine, she has created anger, stunned silence, grudging respect as she denounces feminists as those who have stripped femininity from the workplace.
	Boy, is she right about that.
	While she creates provocative advertisements for her law firm that celebrate sex appeal in business.
	Not content to face down the Bar Association with her hints of censure.
	I can imagine they wouldn't like it.
	Osias has now taken to the lecture circuit debating her philosophy before combative students and lawyers and probably talk show listeners.
	Within the last year she's created a not-for-profit foundation Whose purpose is to assault the male establishment and the seething feminist movement who see her use of sex in the workplace as counter-revolutionary.
	Despite the hostility and the occasional boycott stage by some feminists, she says, her message continues to find a responsive court.
	Men have created a business attire for women at work that would strip us, no pun intended, of our femininity.
	A powerful weapon breaking through the glass ceiling.
	Here we go.
	Worse, the so-called feminist leadership has brought into it, becoming the Quislings of the 90s.
	Says she's proud of the patats that have been thrown at her by other women, including hard Ruthless, mean-spirited, aggressive, ambitious, calculating, and I bet she's been called a bitch or so one time or two, haven't you?
	Uh, Rosalie, hello.
	Hi.
	Anybody ever call you a bitch?
	A few times, here and there.
	Yeah, I bet.
	Um, this is a completely, totally backward point of view from what is considered to be politically correct today.
	Yes?
	Yes, but you know something?
	It's a realistic point of view.
	Oh, you're right.
	Well, I'm successful and it has worked for me and it would work for other women if they tried it.
	Instead of conforming to male standards that were created by men for men, women have to be women.
	They have to be bright.
	They have to be educated.
	They have to have an expertise in whatever they want.
	They need to look like women and they need to use something inherent that they're born with, which is their sexuality.
	Sex sells.
	It always does.
	It works very well in manipulating men all throughout our lives until we get into the workplace.
	That's when we leave everything outside the corporate door and we decide that we're going to look like men and act like men.
	And by God, if you know, we walk in there with our shirts and ties and jackets, we're going to be respected like men and judged on the same basis.
	That's garbage.
	We're not judged the same way.
	Women are judged very differently.
	And when you don't look like a woman, you blend in with the wallpaper because men have a brotherhood.
	They mentor each other.
	They take each other by the hand.
	They bring them up that corporate ladder.
	And women do not get that same response from that male employer.
	And by God, he's going to be a male employer, not a female.
	And so women have to get some sort of recognition early on in their career and accelerate the fact that they're there and they're smart and they can do the work.
	And the only way really to catch a man's attention is by being sexual and using it as a weapon.
	Yes, it works.
	Let me ask you this.
	If you had had an opportunity to counsel Paula prior to her encounter with the President, no matter what happened, Prior to her encounter or right after her encounter?
	No, no, no.
	Prior to her encounter.
	Remember, she is allegedly going up to a hotel room at the invite of the President of the U.S.
	She is an employee of the state of Arkansas, right?
	Alright, so here we have a classic case of big boss, little employee.
	A clear invitation To sexual occurrences.
	So if you had a chance to interview her prior to her visit to the suite, what would you have said?
	What I would have said was, what a tremendous opportunity you're getting.
	I would go right up there and I would send everybody out and I would stay with Bill behind closed doors.
	And no one's going to know what I'm doing behind those closed doors.
	But when I walk out of that room... You would have gone from a GS4 to a GS13.
	Well, let's just say he would have owed me a lot.
	And I would have gotten much more out of that deal than just a lot of lawsuits and a lot of press.
	Because what she really did was, she's not going to really get anything from it.
	And more importantly than that, what she's sending a message out to the world is don't hire women, don't get them into the workplace, don't move them up, because the minute you look at them the wrong way, the minute you touch them the wrong way, the minute you say something that doesn't sound right, you're going to have a lawsuit.
	No, no, no.
	She's saying she wants her reputation back.
	What happened to her reputation?
	Did it go away somewhere?
	I mean, where did it go?
	You know, women are very smart, and women have their reputations, and women have their attitudes, and women have their smarts, and I don't know how one loses one's reputation.
	It's beyond me.
	If I had the opportunity to be with a governor of a state, I certainly wouldn't think that I had lost my reputation.
	I mean, after all, Bill is a man, and like all other men, he's going to, if he has an opportunity, he's going to try and do whatever he feels like doing.
	And that's the way it works, even in the workplace.
	Men are just like that, and women know that, and women dress for that, and women buy billions of dollars in cosmetics for it, and spend millions of dollars for their hair.
	There's a reason why all these enterprises make billions of dollars, because women play into that.
	Unfortunately, they don't play into it in the right places, where they can get the profit from it, where they can get the economic advantage, where they can get that corporate corner office.
	That's the only place where women don't make it work for them.
	So feminism really removes the most powerful weapon that a woman has?
	In my opinion, feminism, you know, 30 years ago the feminist movement did a wonderful thing.
	It told women, you know something, you're as smart as guys, and you can do anything you want, and you can get any position you want, and you can be anything you want.
	And that's where they left us.
	And they told us, well, you know, just go march in and look like men.
	And if that happens and you have your J.D.
	in your hand or if you have your B.A.
	or your B.S.
	or whatever it is that you want to do, you're going to be judged in the merits and you're going to get the same respect as men.
	It didn't happen.
	It's never going to happen.
	And yes, sexuality is a woman's inherent wonderful asset.
	And women do need that extra weapon to make it in the world.
	There is no doubt about it.
	We're not just going to make it with what we know and how we speak.
	I'm an attorney.
	I wanted to represent leading banks in New York State.
	I couldn't get an appointment with anybody.
	I'm very smart.
	You're also a very good lawyer.
	And you're beautiful.
	Well, you know something?
	No one knew I was beautiful.
	And I'm knocking on doors and I'm calling and no one is giving me that appointment.
	And what I started doing was advertising in a provocative way as an attorney.
	Why?
	Because bankers are all men.
	Women don't own banks.
	And my target were men.
	I wanted those men to stop and look and say, what is this?
	So what did you do?
	uh... journals and uh... support that go right in you know that they trade uh...
	right magazine exactly that bank is all we do i took out full page ads
	uh...
	i got the at the immediate attention i'm sure and not only did i get the immediate
	attention of those bankers uh... i got the appointment
	uh... at the con at the next convention those bankers wanted to meet me
	I'm not going to lie, I'm going to say it.
	I didn't have to go knocking on their doors.
	I represent 40 banks.
	I could represent more than 40 banks if I wanted to right now.
	So I generated the interest and I generated that income from the provocative advertisements.
	I targeted that male desire For sexuality, a very normal desire.
	I kept the business, though, because I'm good.
	Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how... You've got to be.
	At the end of the day, you've got to be good.
	That's right.
	You've got to deliver.
	Absolutely.
	That's right.
	People want to make money.
	They don't care.
	You know, sexuality can open the door for you.
	It gives you the window of opportunity.
	So, in a way, this got your thigh in the door.
	I'm sorry?
	In a way, this got your thigh in the door.
	Exactly.
	But then you've got to deliver good work, and women really have to deliver work that's much better than men in order to keep that clientele.
	And they're still with me.
	So to all the women that say, no, I'm not going to put myself out there in the meat market.
	I want to be judged on my brain, on my merit, on who I am, on what I do.
	That's great, but who's going to know?
	Who you are and what you do and what you can't do and how great you are.
	No one's going to know it because by renting a room in a suite or by renting a storefront and opening a business or by walking into a law firm that has 500 male associates, you're not going to make it.
	No one is going to deal with you.
	You're going to sit at the very bottom and make ends meet.
	You've got to accelerate your recognition immediately.
	And the only way you can really do that is through your sexuality, because that's the only thing that you've got that the men don't.
	So if it had been you who had been going to meet Bill Clinton by now, you would be Secretary of State, or probably Ambassador to the country of your choice?
	I would have been doing something very important, absolutely.
	Because, you know, the whole idea, I assume, by women yelling and ranting and raving and fighting is that we want economic equality and we want financial equality and we want that same power.
	Well, women have to have a strategy.
	A game plan.
	Just like men.
	Men have that game plan.
	Except that men have each other to bring them up.
	Alright, alright.
	Rosalie, hold on.
	We've got plenty of time.
	We're at the bottom of the hour and we will be back.
	Does anybody detect unreality here?
	Uh-uh.
	This is the real thing.
	You know it when you're hearing it.
	Listen carefully.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
	AMC News Dispatch Theme ...
	AMC News Dispatch Theme ...
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell and my guest is Rosalie Osias.
	And we are frantically searching for a place on the web right now, the World Wide Web, where we can get a photograph of Rosalie and get a link to it on our site.
	So we are frantically working on that.
	If anybody out there can help us, She's been associated with Nexus Lexus, and if you can find a link to a photograph of Rosalie, it's worth getting it up there.
	This woman is a knockout.
	And she knows how to use it.
	And she'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may twenty seventh nineteen
	ninety seven all right uh...
	the back down to uh... rosalie all science uh...
	Rosalie, I have the first blistering facts in already.
	Which says, Art, I'll bet this woman has never been raped, or she wouldn't have such a perspective.
	Now, how do you address that?
	It comes from a guy, by the way.
	Dave in San Francisco.
	Well, you know, rape is rape.
	And obviously, I would kill any man that rapes a woman.
	That is a crime.
	That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
	Ah, but they'll view it that way.
	They'll say, there she is, flashing a thigh and giving cleavage, and it's going to lead these men down the temptation to that horrible crime.
	Well, you know, do you notice that there isn't any rape going on in the world today?
	I mean, there's rape going on every single day.
	Um, and there's domestic abuse going on every single day and we're running around having parties to build more shelters for women to run to in the middle of the night with their children.
	So I don't see that by not using your sexuality or by conforming to some male standard of dress and and weigh about you that we've done anything greater in the
	world in the last 30 years.
	Actually, I think it's gotten worse than it ever has.
	So what I'm advocating is for women to finally really take their lives in their hands truly
	and really and honestly and look at themselves and realize that we've moved nowhere except
	downwards.
	And that's where men would like to keep us is downwards.
	That's where we're the best.
	And take our lives in our hands and finally use something that we do have.
	And we've been using on our fathers from the time we're little girls to get what we want.
	And we use it on our boyfriends, and to get boyfriends, and to get that guy to take us to the prom, and to get that guy in college, and to get that husband.
	I mean, we're always using our sexuality as women from the time we're born.
	The only place we leave it outside the door is when we go out to work and where it counts, so that we can move up and get some power in our hands.
	And you know, I've had women writing to me and writing to newspapers whenever I've been published in newspapers.
	One woman said, well, you know, the Wonder Bra and things like that are OK for Madonna, but not for the real working woman.
	And I said to myself, well, here's a woman who thinks it's OK for Madonna to make millions of dollars by using her sexuality.
	But for some reason, the rest of the millions of us, All have to live in poverty or have to struggle to make ends meet.
	Why is that?
	Why do women accept sexuality in the modeling industry, in the beauty industry, in the entertainment industry?
	Why is it okay in all those industries, which by the way, men manipulate women in those industries through sexuality and women buy right into it.
	Why don't women just manipulate themselves for once instead of letting the men make the money off of us?
	Because that's really what happens in the real world.
	So you're really saying that the whole femininity business as it applies to the workplace and even sexual harassment, that's something we'll cover, is an absolute bunch of baloney and it's really backwards and wrong and unnatural and what you're saying is the natural thing.
	Yes.
	I mean, you know, women went into the workplace and, you know, for some reason they thought they were supposed to leave their womanhood outside of the door.
	But it doesn't work.
	It really doesn't because when you're in the real world and you're trying to get up there and you have to be ambitious and aggressive and walk over a lot of dead bodies because, you know, that's the way men make it also.
	You know, men don't just walk in the door and, you know, become president two weeks later.
	Men have to do the same thing, but men have something in there that women don't, and that's a friend.
	It's the brother sitting in the corporate office.
	He's going to network in the golf course.
	He's going to network with the boys at the disco.
	He's going to network with them at the urinal.
	He's going to network with them when he's cheating on the wife.
	Women don't have that.
	They don't have the friend at the workplace.
	They've got to Make themselves known and make themselves known much quicker to whoever is important in that office and who can mentor them and help them and teach them and bring them along.
	That's the only way women are going to do it.
	They're not going to do it by working 20 hours a day sitting at their desk in their corporate outfits.
	I know my audience has got to be sitting out there, most of them, in their hearts.
	Knowing you're exactly right, exactly right.
	I mean, most of the women probably know it, though they have been conditioned away from what you're saying.
	And I can tell you right now that most of the men know it, too.
	Now, there will be fundamentalist Christians who will come on here and just break you over the coals, no doubt.
	And I'm sure you're used to that.
	However, had you not done What you did, you probably wouldn't be representing one banker right now, would you?
	Absolutely not.
	And you know, not only do I represent 40 banks, I own a number of other companies, and many, many doors have opened up to me throughout the world.
	And I've now gotten involved with international banking in Eastern countries.
	So, you know, the way I look and I presented myself Opened up those doors.
	But again, I had to be good at what I did.
	And when I'm sitting across the conference table, they may be looking at my body first, but they're also listening to what I'm saying.
	And at some point, the eyes go from the chest to the face because now they want to conduct business.
	No, business is the bottom line.
	That's right.
	That's absolutely right.
	And, you know, feminism has... You know, the feminist movement, it started out as something so great, but then it really became a cancer, and it really suffocated all those women out there.
	I mean, women out there are frustrated.
	They haven't made it.
	They're still at the bottom of the ladder.
	All right, now refute this, because the women's movement claims many gains.
	Glass ceilings are being broken.
	Women are rising to positions they never have before, and they're claiming gains.
	Of course, so is the American Cancer Society.
	Well, I don't know what gains they're looking at.
	There were a number of studies, and they're studies done by the month.
	A few months ago, there was a Harvard study done.
	They surveyed hundreds of law firms, and women were not partners.
	Women were still at the bottom.
	And, you know, 50% of law schools are made up of women.
	And they go into the force, into the law firms, and 50% of those women that enter leave because they're so frustrated.
	They go back home, and they have children, and they stay there.
	I mean, that's okay, but that wasn't the original intention.
	That wasn't why they went to law school.
	The idea was None.
	Is there one?
	to become a lawyer and and and work at something they loved and become
	successful and uh... have economic freedom of choice in in what they did
	and it didn't happen and the women that have remained
	on making and meet you know the with the the women that uh... look at present
	how many women organizations are behind
	paula jones none of the original
	one organization one is the one
	Don't you think they should all be behind this woman?
	I mean, after all, she's been sexually harassed.
	Do you want to tell me why you think they're not?
	I'll tell you why.
	Because women, first of all, are enamored of Bill.
	He's good looking.
	He's sexy.
	You know, I mean, women voted Bill in.
	You know, it was the women's vote that brought him in.
	Number two, Bill wants to give out money for the different things that women need women do need the
	money from the government that
	a very a very sad state of affairs instead of women being able to make that money and not
	needed and all those companies
	uh... so you know you know you know the supported a rose later to give it you're
	really saying that uh... bill clinton owes to a large degree
	his success to the same thing you do
	Yeah.
	Well, you know, men have been doing that for years.
	You know, men know what sexuality is, and they've played that game.
	You know, men... You know, it's not that the Foundation did a survey, and they found that they questioned about 800 secretaries, support staff, paralegals, assistants, And over 50% of those women said they fantasized having sex with the boss.
	About 20% said... Was that 50%?
	Over 50%.
	And about 20 or 25% said yes, that the men in the office who have the power know that they have the power and know that they use their sexuality.
	I mean, look, you know, that sexual tension Is there?
	It exists in the workplace and everywhere else.
	I mean, it exists in the Army.
	In life.
	I don't know.
	What?
	In life.
	In life.
	Absolutely.
	And it makes the world go around.
	Women aren't using it, though, to their advantage.
	They're not manipulating it.
	I'm not telling women, go out and get a couch and bring it into your boss's office and, you know, close the door.
	But you may be suggesting if there's one already conveniently there?
	What I'm suggesting is use your sexuality, but at the same time there are people who are going to have relationships in the office.
	It's been going on ever since men and women have been together in any environment, including the office, including the workplace, including the army.
	And if you're going to have a sexual relationship with someone in the office, At least have it with someone who can help you.
	What do you think?
	Look, let's tackle the military services, because they're having a terrible time right now.
	And it is a little bit of a different situation in the military.
	Because of the discipline.
	Yeah, it really is.
	I mean, not at the human relationship level, but in terms of what you can get in deep doo-doo for, yeah, it is.
	You can get in deep trouble very easily in sexual harassment areas.
	As a matter of fact, allegations sometimes reduce ranks nearly immediately.
	And so it is a little bit different in the military.
	Now, in the workplace, in civilian life, I absolutely understand what you're saying.
	And I think you're right.
	Now, this is going to aggravate a lot of people.
	and what what i guess i want to know from you is how have the women
	been talked into this In other words, is there a cabal of men somewhere that has directed the women's movement?
	Or have the women, in your opinion, done this to themselves?
	Set up this set of rules regarding sexual harassment and correct apparel and what you do and don't do.
	Who really started changing the rules?
	Well, you know, in terms of sexual harassment, I just want to make one point about the sexual harassment situation in that, you know, 30 years ago, women were told, you know, take your bra off and burn it.
	We should have really been told, you know, put on the bra and stuff it, because that's a much better deal.
	I think sexual harassment is just the new thing in town for a lot of women who have not made it, who are very frustrated.
	It seems to be a big thing on talk shows and it gets you a little publicity, that 15 minute of fame.
	You may get a few bucks out of the deal because you obviously are not going to get up there, that corporate ladder.
	And it really ruins it for many, many, many, many women by again telling the world, you know, women can't handle the corporate environment.
	They can't handle the reality of men and women in the work environment.
	And so, you know, we're going to cry wolf and it really ruins it for all the other women who take working very seriously and have no problem in dealing with the boys when the boys need to be dealt with.
	Who brainwashed women?
	The feminists, you know, and their intention was not that.
	The initial revolution, so to speak, was good in the sense that they motivated millions and
	millions of women to go out there and become whatever it was that they wanted to become, that
	they too could do it.
	And so in that way it was very, very positive.
	What happened though as time evolved, instead of women realizing that they shouldn't look
	like men and they don't know how to play the game that's played out there, because there
	is a game that's played out there and women didn't know the rules, they just kept doing
	it even though it was getting worse and worse and worse.
	A lot of the women organizations and the feminist leaders who started it, you know, they got richer.
	They started these organizations that really Um, live off of all the rest of us that are going nowhere.
	Men humored us.
	You know, they thought this is very funny.
	You know, when you speak to men in corporations and banks, which I do on a daily basis and in law firms, you know, they call us Ms.
	and they call us assistants and they give you a nice little desk.
	But you know something?
	You're no better off than you were 30 years ago.
	You're still the secretaries, you're still helping those guys get ahead, and you don't even realize it.
	I mean, there's a woman who just came out with a book, I couldn't believe it, and I heard it on TV called Surrendering.
	She's telling women, it's okay to stay home.
	You know you don't have to really work and you know the feminist movement told you you could but don't feel bad if you don't want to and women should really stay home because that's really where they belong and that that they can nurture the best and they can raise children the best and your husband needs you and I mean this is crazy we're going I mean it's taken a whole turnaround because women didn't make it you know I know a lot of women say oh yes you know I have this position in that position the question is Do we own anything?
	You know, that you have this position and that position.
	It's the man who owns the company that can still hire you and fire you.
	Do you think Hillary Clinton is your kind of woman?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, I don't agree with her political point of view, but she's definitely my kind of woman, and she's smart, she's a manipulator, she knows exactly what she's doing, and you know, all the boys hate her.
	Because she knows how to play their game.
	Oh, she's got a lot of bodies in her wake, as has her husband.
	Look, she really is Bill Clinton.
	I mean, you know, if she really took off, if they were, you know, together long enough, you'd realize she takes off her mask and he takes off his.
	You'd see who is Hillary and who is Bill.
	Yeah, you may be right.
	One other thing.
	Now, I don't know how feminism began.
	I can remember a couple of very beautiful women involved in the beginning of feminism.
	In fact, one that I think got on the inside of, was it Playboy?
	Gloria Steinem.
	Gloria Steinem.
	What a beautiful woman.
	Beautiful, she still is.
	Yeah, she is.
	Something happened to most of the women in the feminist movement, and I don't care how much trouble I get in, but frankly, when I look at them, this is just my opinion, and I see them interviewed on television, what I see mostly is a whole bunch of not very good-looking women who look, frankly, kind of butch.
	Yes, I agree.
	So then their motivation in trying to change the whole way the workplace is handled Might be a very personal agenda.
	In other words... I think it's become a personal agenda because it's not run by the people that started it.
	It really isn't.
	It's become convoluted.
	And I wish women would wake up.
	You know, they're promoting this gender blind society within the corporate environment and it's absolutely nonsense and it goes to such an extreme that it can only Women have to wake up and open their eyes and look around
	and see that nothing has happened.
	It's only gotten worse.
	I don't know why women are fighting me so much except that perhaps it's very hard to
	wake up and say, you know something, I've just spent the last 20 years doing something
	that was totally wrong and I don't want to wake up and I don't want to come to terms
	with it and I don't want to change now because 20 years ago I changed and I did what I was
	supposed to and now this woman is telling me I have to change again.
	I hear you.
	Alright, Rosalie, you've got plenty of minutes to rest, grab some coffee, whatever you want to do.
	And we'll come back and do a little recap at the top of the hour and then we're going to open the phone lines and this is going to be a lot of fun.
	I can tell it's going to be fun.
	Alright?
	Stay right where you are.
	Rosalie Osias and we're going to see what we can do.
	If anybody has a photograph, Modem it to me right away and we'll get it up on the web.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	Don't leave me this way.
	I can't goodbye.
	Can't stay alive without your love.
	I can't save a life without your love Oh baby, don't leave me this way
	I can't save a life without your love Oh baby, don't leave me this way
	Oh baby, don't leave me this way Oh baby, don't leave me this way
	Oh baby, don't leave me this way Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
	Well, good morning.
	Buckle in, everybody, because you're about to hear a different point of view.
	As you know, I specialize in different points of view.
	Gets me in trouble all the time.
	This is really different.
	My guest is Rosalie Osias.
	And by the way, anybody who's got a nice photograph of Rosalie Osias, please send it to me by email right now at artbellataol.com.
	In the meantime, I have just scanned a not a very good rendition sent to me by fax of Rosalie, and that's on the way to my webmaster, Keith Rowland.
	He will probably have it up there within the next half hour.
	But if anybody else has a photograph, and this is a worthy photograph to see, trust me.
	Send it along and we'll get that up.
	She'll be back in a moment.
	She has a different outlook on things than you might hear conventionally anywhere else right now.
	And the thing about Rosalie is, she's right.
	Anyway, back to her in a moment and I'll catch you up LA San Francisco joining at this hour.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device
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	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	As you know, the U.S.
	Supreme Court 9-0 said that the sexual harassment case against the President may proceed.
	And that's pretty big news today, just behind the tornadoes in Texas.
	And so we've got Rosalie Osias with us, and she has a very, very different way of looking at things.
	and she is suggesting that instead of the feminist position uh... prevalent today in the workplace of uh... uh... well of the suppression of a woman's natural sexuality that women are losing one of the most powerful tools they have their sexuality a little thigh a little cleavage and uh... why uh... as i as i uh...
	Joked earlier, you get a thigh in the door.
	Now, look, she's an attorney.
	And make no mistake about it, she said it at the end of the day, you've got to be able to do your job.
	And she represents now about 40 banks.
	But she did it by getting a thigh in the door.
	You know, I mean, she just admits that by getting a thigh in the door.
	So she is she has a very, very, very different view of things.
	And we were joking earlier, and I asked her, look, if you'd been in a position of a young lady that was about to go up to see the President, what would you have done?
	And she essentially said, well, I would have gone in, I definitely would have gone up there, and I would have probably gone from a GS4 to Secretary of State, maybe, or something like that.
	Anyway, you get the idea.
	Here she is once again, Rosalie High.
	Hi.
	You're in New York, by the way, aren't you?
	We didn't even tell people that.
	Yes, I am.
	New York City, Long Island, where are you?
	Well, my main office is on the island, but I have offices throughout the state.
	Okay.
	Alright, so you're traveling around all the time?
	Not me, but other attorneys that work for me, yes.
	Oh, so now you have attorneys that work for you?
	Oh, absolutely.
	How can I possibly represent 40 banks alone?
	Out of curiosity, what is the breakdown of your employment gender count?
	How many men, how many women work for you?
	I know I'm going to get a lot of boos on this.
	Let me just qualify this by saying that I have running ads all the time because I'm constantly hiring new attorneys and new paralegals and assistants.
	And I always try to hire women, and I do.
	Unfortunately, women do not stay with me as long as men.
	So the majority of the attorneys that do work for me are men, but not because I wouldn't prefer women, which is a whole other program.
	But one of the other problems that women have is it's very difficult for women to work for a female principal.
	It's okay for women to work for a manager, for a vice president, for another assistant, but it's very difficult for them to deal with a female principal as they deal with a male.
	I have other businesses where I have male partners, apart from the law firm, and women somehow, and it goes back to that same thing, they're not They don't have a strategy.
	It's not, you know, I want to go from here and I want to get to Z and it doesn't really matter what I do.
	With men, if a man is very demanding, women acquiesce and go, oh, he had a bad day with his wife, his stomach hurts, you know, the poor guy.
	When a woman is very demanding, women get incensed and internalize it and simply leave.
	So most of the people...
	I would say 65% of the employees that I have are men.
	Let me tell you something.
	I have, in my life, in radio and otherwise, worked for quite a number of women over the years, and I have to tell you, they are some of the most cold-hearted, mean-spirited, hard-to-work-for bitches that I have ever What is it about women when they finally do, perhaps not in the manner you are talking about here, achieve some position of power?
	It's like they're then out to destroy men.
	I don't know.
	I don't think that's really the goal here.
	I think women, once they do achieve some sort of power and control, It's hard for them to maintain it, and they really can't do it.
	Yeah, but if they didn't do it your way, Rosalie, by a little thigh and a little cleavage and whatever else, and then competent work, but if they did it instead the way men do it, and that is by leaving dead business bodies behind, they're harder, crueler, and make terrible bosses.
	Well, that's what most people say.
	I don't know.
	Maybe people are just not used to dealing with a woman.
	I do believe, though, that women have to be harder than men.
	Look, I guess I'm a little bit harder.
	I'm more demanding of people that work for me than perhaps my male counterpart because my clients expect a higher standard from me than my male counterparts
	or they would go there.
	And so if I'm going to produce a higher quality of work then I need to get that from the people
	who work for me as well.
	And so perhaps I may be tougher.
	I mean as much thigh and cleavage as I show, at the end of the day I still need very high
	quality work.
	And I think both men and women have a hard time working.
	For those women that finally do reach it, those women do have to maintain a certain
	standard.
	I don't know.
	But in my case, I am very demanding and I know what's expected and I want to keep that clientele.
	But you know, men are different in the sense that if you're demanding and you critique, they will close their ears.
	They may not like it.
	They may whisper a lot of things under their breath.
	They like the money.
	They know where they are.
	They know why they're there.
	They know where they're going.
	There's a reason they're there.
	And they move on.
	Women don't.
	They take it personally.
	And obviously you took it personally also.
	When the female boss yelled at you.
	Look, I was just making a very general observation.
	Men, when they deal with each other at a business level, I'm not saying they don't get into big fights, and there are not big conflicts, but it is not as strident and as mean-spirited as the woman who has made it in the man's world, not your way, but by leaving bodies behind, by being as rough and as tough and as big and as bad as any man out there in the business world.
	These women, look out.
	I'm not going to defend them because I'm just happy they're there.
	I really am.
	All right.
	Let's take a few phone calls.
	This will be interesting indeed.
	Are you prepared to defend yourself?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Don't worry about me.
	All right.
	First time caller, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Chris from Nashville.
	Yes, Chris.
	I've been in the workplace for 12 years as a salesman.
	I kind of agree with what you're saying, but not all women are pretty and some women have no sexuality.
	If they don't have that, what are they supposed to do?
	That's a good question and I think when I made my rather caustic comment about the women's movement.
	Very caustic, in fact.
	That's sort of what I was saying, that it has turned into, or from, an organization that really had a good beginning into an organization of women who are frankly not particularly good-looking and want the rest of the workplace and the rest of their gender reduced to the same playing field.
	You know what?
	That's what another national pop show host said.
	I heard him say it for the first time about a year ago, and I thought, oh boy.
	You've lost it, and actually, there's a little bit of truth to it.
	Well, he may have lost it.
	He may not still have his job, you know.
	No, he does.
	He's the number one.
	I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.
	Oh, Rush.
	You mean Rush.
	Mr. Limbaugh, right.
	And another thing, I think what women need to do is just change their attitude, get a little thicker skin, and don't be so petty.
	Life is not perfect for everybody, and that would Get them a lot farther along.
	And everything we're saying is not politically correct, but as you listen to Rosalie, you know she's right, don't you?
	In most cases, the only thing I don't like what I hear is that she keeps... She's got the same general idea that the other feminists do, that all women are victims and all men are bad, and I don't agree with that.
	Well, now, wait a minute.
	I don't know if she said that.
	All men are bad?
	Well, I didn't say men are bad at all.
	As a matter of fact, I adore men.
	And really, it's men who make me feel like a sexy woman.
	And I love men for making me feel that way, and I couldn't see a world without men.
	So no, I don't hate men, but I do think that the majority of women are on the lower economic ring.
	There is no doubt about that.
	That men control the world, they control the major corporations, the banks, countries.
	I mean, let's face it, that's the reality.
	Okay, what do you say?
	You say men.
	That sounds like one success story.
	No, it's millions of separate success stories.
	Everyone's got a different situation in life and you have to just take your blows on the way up sometimes.
	That's just the way it is.
	Alright, well look.
	His initial question was, what about the ugly woman or the homely woman?
	You know something?
	I'm asked that question all the time, but you know, sexuality is...
	And don't laugh, but it is from within.
	It's an attitude.
	It's the way you look at somebody.
	It's the way you walk.
	It's the way you hold your body.
	It's the way you sit.
	It's the way you get up.
	There's much more to sexuality than a pretty leg and big breasts.
	Sexuality is a whole combination of things.
	There are plenty of women who have gorgeous bodies and are very masculine.
	So it's an attitude.
	It's a feel.
	It's everything combined, and you know... Actually, sex is mostly in your head, really, isn't it?
	There you go!
	That's right!
	But, you know, we think of beautiful as, you know, tall, thin, big breasts, long legs, long hair, blonde, green eyes.
	That's easy for you to say, because that's you.
	Well, I've been blessed in that way, maybe, but you know something?
	There are women out there Who are gorgeous if they would just let themselves become gorgeous.
	You know, I know women, attorneys, who make it their business every morning to look as ugly as possible.
	You know, let me get that hair back.
	Let me put on my glasses.
	God forbid I should put on some makeup.
	Let me look as disgusting as possible so that I can get as much respect tomorrow morning as I can.
	And I think that's what you see out there.
	That's the wrong attitude.
	Do you remember a big brouhaha not long ago over a Supreme Court Justice appointment?
	No.
	Which one?
	You don't?
	Don't you remember the sexual harassment charges and the hearings they had and the pubic hair and that whole brouhaha?
	You don't remember that?
	Yes.
	Now I do remember.
	Now you do?
	i'm curious thinking of another judge that told the woman that was
	that was brought in front of her uh... who had stolen something and the judge uh... female
	judge very smart that there you know
	you have to go and feel anything all you've got to do is go to a bus
	uh... stop and sit on the bench in court to let me show some body and
	you would have been able to make plenty of money uh... i think i think you have a lot of that no open of
	okay anyway they're going back to your story as you watch that whole thing uh...
	unfold and i can imagine
	you must have been intensely fascinated You must have been sitting there shaking your head, saying, what the hell is going on here?
	What's the matter with this woman?
	Why is she doing this?
	I guess you looked at it... How did you look at it?
	I don't want to put words in your mouth.
	You know, the same way that I look at any woman that comes up with this sexual harassment, um, new, you know, new ice cream in town.
	I don't like it.
	I don't care for it.
	It's an insult to me as a woman and it's, um, you know, let me get myself into the limelight.
	I mean, I'm ashamed of it.
	I don't like it and, and I wish that, Other women would stop buying the newspaper in protest or something.
	Look at Montiel Williams, you know, the talk show host?
	Oh, yes, of course.
	Some young female producers got all hot and bothered because he would walk around in his boxer shorts and light cigars.
	Me, I would have taken pictures.
	I would have laughed with it.
	I would have said, hey, Montie, this is cool.
	This is great.
	Let me sit here and light your cigarette.
	I would have gone with it, because really I'm not there to help him be Monty Williams.
	I'm there to take his job, and I'm going to manipulate the situation to my advantage.
	Instead, I mean, do we hear about those women anymore?
	No.
	It was a one or two day newspaper event, and that was it.
	So, to me, it's a waste of time, and it's not conducive.
	To making headway for women.
	What generally happens to women who bring sexual harassment charges?
	I mean they, whatever it might be, they bring the charges, there's a big brouhaha, they keep their job probably for a while, but what happens to them?
	Do they ever really break through the glass ceiling or are they forever marked?
	They don't break through the glass ceiling, that's for sure.
	It's out in the paper, there's discussions of the tremendous case of the Smith-Barney case, with all those women yelling and screaming that they were harassed.
	To me, I worked for large law firms before I opened up my own.
	I don't ever remember working for a firm where men didn't look at me or men didn't ask me
	out or a partner didn't put his arm around me.
	When I started out of law school, I also conformed to...
	what i was told to do you know where that conservative to look at it as ugly
	as possible look like a man when did the light bulb on up going suddenly when i
	wasn't getting any of the good work that my mail counterpart were getting when
	uh... might mail the mail it don't feel to have come in at the same time
	we're sitting in the park in the office doing big deal and i was doing nonsense and garbage
	All right, Rosalie, hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, and let me tell the audience that on my website now, I've got one image of Rosalie already.
	We're looking for a better one, but if you want to see Rosalie, um, she's up there.
	Rosalie Osias on my website.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may 27th 1997
	and you remember when you first came my way I said no one can take your place and if you get hurt, if you get hurt by
	the little...
	you can die, you can die having the time of your life Ooh, she's a girl!
	Watch that scene!
	Dig in standing free!
	She is set free Friday night and the lights are low
	Looking out for a place to go You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	Rosalie Osias is my guest.
	We've got one photograph of her on the website already.
	It was a quick scan.
	I'm going to try to get another.
	If anybody has one, send it to me.
	This woman is gorgeous.
	Absolutely gorgeous.
	So, I should have been working on photographs earlier, but I had a wild day today.
	Anyway, we'll get back to Rosalie.
	She's got quite a message.
	It's a very different message, and we'll tell you more about it in a moment.
	And you know, as I sit here and I listen to music, here is yet another place where women's sexuality, their provocative natural nature is glorified.
	It's all over music, isn't it?
	So, what happens to it when it gets into the workplace?
	And that's what Rosalie is asking and you may have political disagreements with her but in
	your heart I bet you know she's right.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for
	mobile device users specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
	Back now to Rosalie Osias.
	Rosalie, are you there?
	Yes.
	How are you doing?
	You still awake?
	Absolutely.
	All right, let's go to the phone lines.
	West of the Rockies.
	By the way, Rosalie, I should say, and if this isn't proof, when we got the first scan of you up on the website, my webmaster just called and said the entire server, and we've got a big one, went into what he called DEFCON 4.
	Which means that there's a good zillion people going up there to see what you look like right now.
	And doesn't that, in a way, prove your point?
	It absolutely proves my point.
	All the men agree with me.
	Even men in my own profession, in the banking industry, incredibly enough, have started advertising in very unique sexual ways, and they don't even have to, but they realize that yeah you know something she's got a point
	and uh... we can't obviously be sexual the way she can
	but we can do it with tongue-in-cheek and humor and get more clientele for look at it so they had
	a cell car by draping a woman across it
	uh...
	and then uh... it should be okay to sell an introduction to business the same way
	but you know the only people who are doing it are the women
	The women keep saying no.
	We're not going to do it.
	All right.
	Let's take some more calls.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie of Science.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	All right.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off for us.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	This is Floyd in Houston.
	How are you doing?
	I'm great.
	I'm back home again.
	Okay.
	Is Rosalie right or wrong?
	She's 100% right.
	You know, this woman has got more insight than anybody that I have Christine, you're absolutely right about the feminist movement.
	Oh, I love you.
	Well, Rosalie, I support you 100%, young lady.
	Well, thank you.
	And I wish you the best of everything.
	Oh, well, she seems to have that already.
	I haven't been able to get to a website so I can see that, but you made a comment that I agree with, too.
	On the sexuality, it doesn't have to be somebody with Farrah Fawcett hair and Brooke Shields legs.
	It could be somebody with a Rosie O'Donnell body, but with the personality that she's got.
	No, you're exactly right.
	Thank you, Miller.
	And here's one for you.
	Take this one on.
	Art, ask your guest, Rosalie, if she's saying to tease and flirt to get a job or Is she saying, sleep her way to the top?
	Before I go on with the facts, which is it?
	Or is it both?
	You know, it's either one.
	You know, I tell women that they've got to be smart and sexy and that always equals power and money.
	Um, and that's all you really need.
	But if you're going to, um, have relationships in the office anyway, and you know, it happens and I, I know people keep saying, no, it doesn't.
	People don't have these relationships in there.
	They do.
	And, um, you know, let's be honest.
	So being honest, you're saying both.
	I'm saying both.
	I'm saying, look, don't sleep with the FedEx clerk.
	Sleep with the boss.
	Because the FedEx clerk can only teach you how to mail.
	I know, I know.
	Alright, then the facts goes on.
	If she is saying that having sex with a guy is worth any job, she's crazy.
	Can you imagine how many sexual diseases you can get?
	What about pregnancy?
	What about fidelity with your mate?
	Most women I know already use the art of flirt at their jobs.
	If they go the next step and sleep with every guy up the ladder, are they any better than a prostitute?
	This is from Lisa in Birmingham.
	You know, we're all prostitutes in one way or another, both men and women.
	Unfortunately, it's the men who redeem all the benefits of that prostitution and the women who are always the givers and get nothing in return.
	I don't know how she's using her flirtation.
	Flirtation alone doesn't get you anywhere.
	It doesn't work if it's not combined with brains and strategy.
	It's not enough just to show leg and breast.
	That's okay for two or three days and then everybody moves on.
	So there's got to be a real strategy behind the flirtation, the sexuality.
	But if that's not working and that person wants to move on and feels that there is an opportunity by doing whatever it is that she would like to do with the employer.
	You know, it's going to happen anyway.
	And you know something?
	People think that sex isn't happening out there because of AIDS and all these diseases.
	Yeah.
	Oh, it's happening out there.
	It's happening every day.
	I don't think people are more restrained.
	And if you're going to do it, at least get something for it.
	You know, I'm tired of women always being the ones, you know, if women want something and use their sex to do it, you know, they're sluts.
	If men do it, Oh, isn't he great?
	Isn't he wonderful?
	You know, it's a double standard.
	And it's really a matter of what do you want?
	Do you want to always be the assistant?
	Or do you, one of these days, want to own the company?
	It's really quite simple.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hey, how you doing, Art?
	Steve from Greenville, South Carolina.
	Hi, Dave.
	Steve.
	Steve, I'm sorry.
	That's okay.
	That's okay.
	The accent has something to do with it.
	I'm driving home from work and listening to Rosalyn on the radio.
	Rosalie.
	Rosalie, I'm sorry.
	Okay.
	And Josiah.
	And just with the comments about women looking good as opposed to, you know, ugly women can fix themselves up and everything.
	It reminded me of the other famous trial that has gone on here lately with Marsha Clark.
	She changed her image During the trial, and boy, everybody, at least out here, was talking about how good looking she was, and it made her almost more credible.
	The only problem, sir?
	She lost the case.
	Well, I know.
	I didn't say it made her more confident.
	But it made her... I mean, you know, everybody talked about how she looked and everything, and I know it didn't make her more confident.
	I didn't think she did a very good job.
	That's true, but you know, I'm reading her book, and I read a lot of comments about her.
	She did change her look.
	She didn't change her look enough.
	She was still very much conforming to male standards of being tough and she's got to be this and she's got to be that and she'll just do so much.
	I think if she would have been a lot more sexy and would have come across in that way They would have been a much nicer, better connection with that jury.
	You know, Johnny Cochran wore purple suits for a reason.
	And he was very, very sexy in that courtroom, believe me.
	He used that sexuality.
	Well, you know, they have consultants, you would well know, you're an attorney, that are hired to assess the juries as they go through the process of picking a jury.
	These consultants have a strong influence on who is picked.
	Uh, to be on the jury for either side.
	And maybe they should have a consultant like you trying to figure out whether it's a leg man or a breast man.
	Well, you know something?
	You might have something.
	I may just expand into that new arena.
	I don't mind making a few more dollars.
	I understand.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Oh, well, I'm doing quite well.
	Turn your radio off.
	That's the first thing.
	Okay, hold on a sec.
	By the way, we're taking these calls Unscreened, Rosalie, they come in as I punch them up.
	I don't even know who's coming up.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Grand Junction, Colorado.
	Alright.
	I just wanted to say that I think that's what she does, and with the way that she works, I think that's just taking advantage of all the things that you can do, you know?
	Everybody gets trompled on, and hey, I've been through college, you know, law school, I'm in medical school now, and I've been working my way to the top, and I hear people like this, that if they can do it, they can do it easier.
	More power to them.
	You know, I think that's just cool, everybody taking advantage of what they can do.
	Funny, here I thought she was going to get nailed up to the wall here.
	Well, you notice that we haven't had any female callers.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's true.
	Let's change that.
	Well, you're staying away from me.
	If I was, you know, I'm not an ugly male.
	I consider myself fairly sexy, you know, but if I could do what you could do with your body and to get to the top, I would, but my problem is everybody above me is either, you know, male or something, you know, and I'm not going to go quite there to get to the top, you know, but... All right, sir.
	I'm sorry.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	I'm going to change that right now.
	I'll tell you what I want.
	Keith, if you're out there listening, I just sent you a second scan.
	That's pretty good.
	I'm a guy who can actually scan photographs and talk on the radio at the same time and do an interview and take calls.
	And maybe even chew gum.
	I haven't tried that yet.
	So we've got a second scan on the way up to the web right now.
	Keith, you'll find that in your email right now.
	Now, I'm going to take a quick break.
	And what I want to do, Rosalie, stay right there.
	is all the guys who are calling right now hang up hang up we'll get back to you don't worry guys will get back to you women only are women only for the next few minutes let's see what we get are you listening now so if you're a guy out there calling hang up let the ladies get through let's see what they've got to say because she's exactly right I don't think we've had one woman yet So, here they come.
	First time color line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Well, hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Paradise.
	Paradise, California.
	Alright.
	Let's just say I'm the slut from Paradise, because I believe with what Rosalie says.
	I don't know if she said that.
	Rosalie, did you say that?
	No, I'm not calling women sluts.
	Well, I'm sure somebody did.
	I just started listening about five or ten minutes ago.
	I see.
	Because I had to watch Strange Universe.
	I see.
	I can't think of a job that I've ever had where I have not had to deal with men flirting with you and trying to take advantage of you, but I've always tried to use that to my advantage.
	And have you done so to the degree Rosalie described?
	Well, the little bit that I've heard so far, I can only go on my own experience that yes, you can use it to your benefit.
	You can come across kindly and nicely.
	And we all like flattery and basically that's what, of course, I've never had to work with senators.
	So I don't know.
	Politicians.
	Now there's a very, very interesting question, Rosalie.
	Of the various career fields that are out there, from the private sector, business, banks, senators, is there any difference to the kind of response you will get to the kind of Overtures for career advancement that you propose?
	You mean in terms of how men respond or how a woman should respond?
	Well, no, in the different careers of men, how they respond.
	In other words, you've dealt with bankers.
	They're about the staunchest group you could imagine.
	Yeah, but you know something?
	I mean, I think men or men and women or women.
	I mean, I don't think men are any different in the Senate versus Um, banking or the legal profession or the accounting profession.
	Right.
	I think men are pretty basic and smart women understand those, you know, that basic and those needs and the mentality and how to manipulate men.
	They're pretty generic.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hello, I'm very, very nervous because I've never called into a talk show before.
	Well, that's cool.
	Where are you?
	I am in Illinois, in central Illinois, and my name is Bridget.
	I really have to applaud Rosalie for being an individual and having her point of view, and I applaud any woman who wants to dress however they want to feel comfortable dressing.
	Quite frankly.
	Really, it depends on the situation and the mood I'm in.
	Right now, I really don't have... I'm on my way to graduate school eventually, so I haven't really had any... I haven't had any situations that... Right.
	No, you're still in school, so it's a perfect opportunity.
	She can give you advice.
	I mean, you're going to get out.
	You're going to go into the private sector.
	That's right.
	Actually, I am working right now producing your show.
	You are?
	Yes.
	I'm at WSOY.
	You are?
	Yes.
	Uh-huh.
	And I also want to ask Rosalie if she's ever heard of Rianne Eisler.
	No.
	No.
	She wrote a very interesting book called The Chalice and the Blade, and it talks a lot about history and archaeology, and it's kind of a holistic kind of perspective, and it's more of, instead of just men against women, it's more of a partnership versus kind of a dominator paradigm, and I believe our Terence McKenna is really into Rianne Eisler as well, and has written about her In his writing.
	I agree.
	And I thank you for the call.
	I just wanted to applaud her.
	And Art, I applaud you for having such a great show.
	Thank you.
	And by the way, there is now a second photograph of Rosalie on the website.
	That's www.artbell.com.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Rosalie.
	Good morning.
	This is Holly from Honolulu.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	We're here.
	I love Honolulu.
	I wanted to say I agree with you 100%.
	I've been a stripper for 18 years.
	Excuse me?
	I'm a stripper and I've been a stripper for 18 years and I've gotten to know a little bit about men in that time and I just want to say that everything that you've said Rosalie is right on.
	I mean completely.
	I've literally used my I don't know.
	attributes, feminine, wild, whatever, to make a really good living.
	Never had to work for a man.
	I was able to have a job anywhere I went.
	I've worked in gentleman's clubs.
	I've worked in dives and everywhere I've worked.
	I love men.
	I adore men just like you do.
	I just want to say that everything you're saying is right on.
	Also I agree with the man who called in and said sexuality and what people are attracted
	to is a very relative thing.
	I've seen women who aren't conventionally beautiful get on stage and seduce a room just
	by paying attention, making eye contact.
	I disagree.
	All women are sexy to me.
	I think all women are sexy.
	There are no ugly women.
	Well, all women can be sexy.
	Not all women project themselves as being sexy.
	I was going to have to jump in there and disagree.
	There are definite ugly women.
	Yes, but that's to you.
	You know what I'm saying?
	That's your opinion.
	For example, let me give you an example.
	If I go into a club and there are 400 dancers in that club and I ask 20 guys, which dancer is the prettiest one in this room?
	All of them will have a different answer.
	Not one will say the same person.
	I'm honest to God.
	I've seen women make fortunes who are not conventionally pretty.
	When a man says, I don't think that woman is pretty or attractive.
	Listen, we're going into a break.
	Can you hold on?
	Sure.
	Rosalie, how about you?
	Yeah.
	All right, good.
	Everybody hold on then, and we'll be back to both of you and everybody else in a moment.
	Rosalie Osias from New York is my guest.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	This is a story of a man who was a sailor on a ship.
	He was a sailor on a ship.
	Memories will last a long, long time We'll have a good time baby, don't you worry
	And if we're still playin' around, boy that's just fine Let's get excited, we just can't hide it No, no, no
	I'm about to lose control and I think I like it I'm goin' wild and I just can't hide it No, no, I know, I
	know Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
	And Rosalie Osias is my guest.
	She is an attorney.
	And she's not exactly a feminist.
	Or is she?
	That's a pretty good question.
	I'll tell you one thing.
	If you ever wanted to go to a website and see a couple of incredible pictures, get up to mine right now and take a look.
	Rosalie's on it.
	Two photographs.
	The one I suggest you look at first is Rosalie at work.
	I think those are high heels.
	I can't quite tell, but I'm pretty sure.
	Oh my.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	Now, Rosalie Osias is an attorney.
	She represents about 40 banks.
	She's got a big business.
	She's got Attorneys who work for her.
	In other words, she's got a big business and she's done it her way.
	Like old Blue Eyes said, you've done it your way.
	Is that fair?
	I have done it my way.
	Dear Art, I am a devout evangelical Christian and a professional psychotherapist and I find myself in complete agreement with your guest on the show.
	In my opinion, she is describing the use of charm and sensuality in the conveyance of one's talents and gifts, not necessarily the use of sexuality as a manipulation of the patriarchal system.
	I wonder if that's fair.
	You are, though... Which are you doing?
	Both, really, right?
	In other words, you are using sexuality, it is fair to say, as a manipulation of the present system.
	Well, I'm using sexuality because I'm a woman and it comes easy and it's a gift I have.
	I was born with it and it's a weapon that I've been using since I was born.
	So, yes, I'm using it in the workplace as well to open up a lot of doors and generate income.
	Look, you know, I support a lot of families in my employment.
	Are you married?
	Yes, I am.
	And I have two small boys.
	What is your husband's attitude about your take on things?
	It's a fair question, but my husband is the kind of guy, he's very smart, he's an attorney, he's ambitious himself, and he has no problem with his wife making money.
	He knows that I'm very good at what I do.
	I was always sexy and used my sexuality.
	I got him with my brain.
	I was about to say, you probably got him the way you got the 40 banks.
	Well, you know something, you do what it takes.
	And I wanted him and I'm very happy.
	And we have two great kids.
	And after being married to him for 10 years, I'm still happy to jump into bed.
	So, how many people can say that?
	I'm not sure.
	Maybe we'll find out.
	You can go to bed with him, by the way.
	Let me ask you this.
	Suppose he had just an incredible opportunity.
	I mean, just an incredible opportunity to take over or bring two corporations together into a merger that would make you multi-millionaires.
	Only thing is, You'd have to sleep with the CEO of the other company to consummate the deal.
	You know, Mike, I may get a lot of hassles about this, but the truth of the matter is...
	You know, I think men play that game anyway, and even when they're not bringing two corporations together.
	That's the whole idea.
	Men are that way.
	Men like to play around.
	It has nothing really to do with whether they love their wives or not.
	But this is still not a direct answer to my question.
	He's going to do whatever he's going to do.
	And you would understand that?
	I don't think he would tell me.
	And you wouldn't want to know.
	Don't tell policy.
	No, it's not a matter of a don't tell policy.
	I just, you know, don't think men walk around talking about that to their wives.
	But I wouldn't have a problem with that.
	At least he's bringing home millions of dollars.
	I'll send him a tape, a copy.
	Back to Honolulu.
	Here's our Honolulu stripper again.
	Are you there?
	Yes.
	Aloha.
	Aloha.
	Thanks for your patience.
	Anything else?
	I just wanted to say she's very right.
	Hello, Rosalie.
	Aloha.
	You're very right about when you say you're coming from a position of power.
	This is my opinion, but I believe that women are always going to be sexual objects.
	It doesn't matter if we have a million years of so-called feminist movement.
	Men are always going to be attracted by women.
	Women who learn how to use that to their advantage are coming from a position of power.
	I've always felt that way.
	I bought my first home when I was 20 years old.
	Like I said, I've been dancing now.
	I'm 34 now.
	I've been dancing since my teens.
	How many women can say they bought their first home at 20?
	Not many.
	Exactly.
	I have homes here on the island, homes on the mainland.
	I work two days a week.
	You know, I love my work.
	And I've never understood, and the other thing I've never understood is the feminist position, to me, which is very hypocritical, of saying women should have the right to do what they want with their body when it comes to abortion.
	But when I want to make money with my body, it's degrading and it's putting women down.
	It sets them back a hundred years, when I feel like the ultimate feminist uh... weapon making money off exactly what what that comes
	naturally to men you know i i've just only follow that very hypocritical to
	to stay to pay that and and and there that premise
	what do you have to get an argument from me all i know how i don't want to go but
	i think they're taking my call right and i hope they're not going to get you
	alright thank you very much uh...
	you know did but what what there's one more here that i lined up specifically
	uh... a female Are you surprised so far at the female response?
	Absolutely, yes.
	You expected... Very, very, very surprised.
	You expected venom.
	Well, that's what usually happens.
	I don't know if they really mean it deep inside or if they, you know, once they Sit down and really think about and evaluate their lives if they really believe what they say.
	But superficially and on the radio and on television, I'm always attacked.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I'm Val from Pahrump.
	You're from Pahrump, Nevada?
	Yeah.
	I just moved here from Hawaii though, from Honolulu.
	Okay.
	I'm 74.
	I've been there.
	I couldn't agree with her more.
	Rosalie is 100% right.
	I've been in both circles.
	I'm a ham operator who, in the late 60s, decided to leave the sales and corporate organizations and go into electronics.
	Wow!
	And so, therefore, I was a woman in a man's world.
	I'll say.
	At a time when few women were in it.
	I also am the widow of a banker.
	Now, today I'm establishing a horse breeding farm in Pahrump, Spanish gated horses.
	And if anybody has been down the road with men, women, good women employees or counselors, advisors in university complexes where I became the most unusual You're right.
	You're in a man's world in electronics for sure.
	Absolutely.
	Did you use your feminine wiles?
	where women so that the most of the camp they have campbell did you did
	you uh... yet you're right here in a man's world electronics for sure i
	think that you use your feminine wiles
	i i have one one uh... fellow one engineer introduced me one day and and
	my thought that to me
	uh... who is the director of the department said uh...
	You know Val, you always wear these socks.
	Socks, are you ready for that?
	Socks to work.
	I said, my job has nothing to do with my femininity.
	And it was dead silence there for a minute, then they both gave a little chuckle.
	But I never, never dressed down at any time.
	And as far as wearing pants, if I wore pants, I wore something that was very feminine for a blouse or a jacket or something like that.
	And that helped in your career?
	Absolutely.
	And the only problem I ever had was really with a woman.
	And Rosalie was right.
	Women are very difficult to work with.
	I love your people.
	Thank you, ma'am.
	I think I have a very enlightened audience, I'm beginning to believe.
	The last word has not been said.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	First of all, I am a woman.
	I can tell that right away.
	Yes.
	My name is Donna.
	I'm calling from Oregon.
	I've got two quick questions.
	One, Rosalie, are you or have you ever been married?
	I am married.
	Oh, good.
	I also have another question for you.
	I was wondering if your philosophy of flirting And possibly sleeping with superiors to work yourself up also would apply if you happen to have a superior that was a woman.
	Hold on, hold on.
	I don't want to miss this answer.
	I'm sorry.
	Alright, so let's hear it.
	Go ahead, Rosalie.
	No, no, no.
	with a lot of it and i don't want to miss this answer and i'm sorry but i don't want to go ahead with
	and i think that there you know there are ways to deal with women i i think
	uh...
	you know and i think that i i had many women attorneys who uh...
	didn't stay and uh... couldn't work for me Thank you.
	But I think you've got to analyze who your female employer is.
	Know what you want.
	No, I mean, you know, let's not laugh about it.
	There are ways to deal with a woman employer.
	Not necessarily, perhaps, through flirtation, but you know something?
	There are ways.
	There are ways to be a woman and possibly be tougher with that employer.
	You know, when I use my sexuality to manipulate business from a man, I'm gearing towards that man because I know sex is very prevalent on his mind.
	There obviously are women employers who aren't interested in my sexuality.
	The question, Rosalie, the question might be, what if there was a woman interested in you in that same way?
	And she was not, but she was attractive.
	Yeah.
	Well, you know something?
	The goal is to get up there, and the goal is to own the company, and the goal is to move on.
	I think women have to be very, very sure of where they want to go and how they want to get there.
	If they're not willing to do whatever it's got to be done to get there, then you're going to stay at that same position.
	Once you've made up your mind that this is where you want to go, you're going to go.
	People have to do what they do with each other.
	You and I don't know what goes on there because we're not involved in that industry.
	All right, ma'am.
	I'm not sure, but I think we just got a sort of... I got the gist of the answer.
	The gist of it, I don't know, mom.
	I guess I could be much more... I'm flirting with and having sex with is the husband, so... I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
	Repeat caller.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I said, for me, I'm a stay-at-home mom.
	The only person I'm flirting with and working myself on top of, excuse the term, is the husband.
	Well, I mean, that's okay.
	It's not much different in a lot of ways.
	You know, if that's what you want.
	You know, my personal feeling was I didn't want to stay home ever and depend on my husband for anything.
	If I wanted to buy my kids something, I didn't want to have to go to my husband and ask him for the money.
	If I wanted to buy clothes or if I wanted anything, I wanted to be able to make choices in my life based on myself and what I wanted, not because my husband said yes, no, maybe, could be.
	That just wasn't going to be my way.
	I'm tempted to open the line for feminists.
	That's good.
	Is it good?
	Yeah.
	I mean, would you like to take them on?
	Of course, absolutely.
	We'll do that at the bottom of the hour.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Connecticut, and I just had a little question for Rosalie.
	Rosalie, when you become sexually involved with a boss... Well, I'm the boss now.
	Oh, I know that.
	I admire that, and I think it's the best way to go.
	We're talking about the latter experience here.
	Yes, we are.
	Aftermath of that for the boss.
	What about it?
	Well, his home life, his wife, his children.
	Oh, yeah.
	That kind of thing.
	You know, it's interesting that you say that.
	I've been watching Helen Gurley Brown.
	I don't know if you know who she is.
	Yes, I do.
	And she was way, way ahead of her time.
	You know, and she dealt with that issue, and I listen to her now, and people just don't understand what she's talking about.
	She can't get the message out anymore because she's very right, but no one wants to listen to someone that's already retired and saying it.
	But she always makes the point, and it's true, and I believe it.
	The woman who's at home and has the man out there working, that husband is her problem.
	When he's in the workplace, He's in the workplace and what he does there, the woman who's going to have the relationship with him in the workplace, it isn't her obligation to keep him loyal to his wife or keep that relationship in place or keep that marriage going wonderfully.
	I'm not really interested in that.
	That's not why I'm at work.
	I'm not really concerned about the employer and his wife.
	I disagree with you.
	What?
	Because I think that the wife, many times, has helped the husband become what he is.
	Oh, I agree with you on that.
	In the very beginning, when he had nothing.
	I agree with you 100%.
	And I think that her hope can be broken, her life can be destroyed, and her children's lives can be destroyed.
	This is why I tell women, don't stay home, because that is correct.
	Those women, I don't know.
	have helped their husbands and at the end of the game they have nothing.
	That's true.
	And I tell women, don't stay home and don't sit there because the kids are going to leave,
	the husband has his career and you are going to be left there at home without the kids
	and without the husband who is out there, has his career, has a whole new world.
	And you know men get more attractive and sexier as they get older.
	Women, their shelf life is very short.
	They're very disposable.
	Why is that, by the way?
	Because that's human nature!
	What I'm saying is, I know you're right in the way we perceive it, but we all age at about the same rate.
	The thing is, as you point out, women's shelf life is a lot shorter.
	Well, we don't really age at the same rate, because you know what happens?
	Men age, but men can still have children In their 70s and 80s and 90s.
	So they're still sexual animals.
	Women, unfortunately, I know women are going to be angry when I say this.
	You know, there's a lot of estrogen therapy going out out there.
	But the truth is that women shrink and get dry.
	Gravity affects them differently.
	Well, you know, that's the way men and women are made.
	Men are not attracted by older women, but younger women are definitely attracted to
	older men for many, many reasons.
	A man can have ten wives and go through 50 children and can start a whole new life at
	the age of 70 with a 20 year old woman.
	A woman at the age of 70 is lucky if she gets a call from her kid once a week.
	What you're speaking is the absolute truth.
	It's going to make a lot of people angry.
	We're about to hear from some of them.
	I know that, but I also know what you're saying is absolutely true.
	A lot of people don't like it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a truth, like a law of nature, Rosalie.
	That's what it is, a law of nature.
	Hold on, we'll get back to you.
	Now, what I want to do is restrict my lines.
	Everybody hang up out there, please.
	What I want Are some radical, possibly even radical, feminists who are offended by what they're hearing right now.
	And if you are out there, call me on whatever line you're able to get through on, and we'll go down that road a little bit.
	So, we're looking for some radical feminists, or those who disagree with Rosalie.
	And I suspect they're legion.
	And that's all we're taking.
	So don't waste your money if that's not you.
	Featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	May 27, 1997.
	Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found
	I have seen only half of what I am Oh, can't you read now?
	My heart is on fire My soul's like a wheel that's turning
	Smoke some drinks and don't come home at all Oh
	Only women bleed.
	Man makes your hair gray.
	He's your last mistake All you're really looking for
	An even break He lies right at you
	You know you hate this game Slaps you once in a while
	And you live in love and pain She cries alone at night
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired May 27th, 1997 Saturday night
	Rosalie Osias is my guest Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell
	Here's a quick fax before we go back to the phones And I think I've got what I requested, Rosalie
	So this should be an interesting half hour Art, regarding your guest tonight, I don't care about her qualifications.
	She's hired!
	Moreover, she can write her own job description.
	I just saw the photo, and I knew I could trust your judgment.
	Anyway, here we go.
	Look out.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Rose Marie from Minneapolis.
	All right.
	I have to say, I love the show.
	Thank you.
	First time I've been on.
	Oh, good.
	Or gotten through.
	That is, listened to you for about maybe the last year.
	You've got to admit, I have an unpredictable show.
	You have a great show.
	Anyway, here's Rosalie.
	Okay, Rosalie.
	Hi.
	I have to say that I think you're great.
	I like what you're saying, but I also call myself a feminist and I'll tell you why.
	I'm an older student that's gone back to school and all of a sudden I've gotten an education.
	I was one of these gals that sort of did that type of thing for many years, worked in the workplace and used my wiles.
	I was always very attractive and sexy and got a lot of attention and I did use it.
	However, now in my older age and learning some of the things that I'm learning, I've become more aware of what's going on and I'm working with youth.
	I have a problem with, and I did read Helen Gurley Brown, I have to say that too, I have a problem with what I think is a lot of young girls these days don't know how to use this talent and get themselves in a lot of trouble.
	And I see this breakdown of what you and I know, being older and experienced, but I don't see them being able to get the guidance or the instruction and they're just going helter-skelter.
	I have a problem with kind of espousing this philosophy at this point with all the problems that we have already in today's world.
	It seems to me like it's a breaking down of a moral standard.
	Which is like the last thing we need right now and there's not anything, we're not talking about spirituality here either, which is another whole issue.
	That is a whole other issue.
	Alright, address the spirituality, the morality question.
	Look, young women, the reason that they don't know how to use their sexuality in the right way is because They do up to a point and then once, I'm assuming these women are ready to go into the workplace or they're in college or in high school.
	Look, they have to be taught how to use it in the workplace, but they also need an education.
	Not just, well you know something, you're sexy, you're beautiful and it doesn't matter and now go in there and do your thing.
	It doesn't work and I've said it before.
	That's okay for a few hours and a few days.
	and then it's over. Those women need to be taught that they need that education. They
	need to know what they want. They need to have a strategy.
	They need to learn how to network. They need to know where the deals are made, how
	the deals are made, and how to be sexual and how to use that sexuality.
	It's a whole package.
	It's a complete package.
	Right, but I'm not seeing who is going to teach them, who is going to guide them.
	Well, that's why my foundation was set up.
	There was a reason for it.
	It wasn't just to get on radio shows and talk to people, although it's very important that I do.
	But one of the reasons for the foundation I've been capitalizing it myself.
	It's rather new and I'm hoping there will be more donations by people who realize that women do need that kind of training and that kind of education.
	Before they go in there, before they get out there... Okay, is that what your foundation does?
	In other words... That's what we're going to do, absolutely.
	The men, you know, the boys don't need that training because, you know, boys somehow are taught early on, you know, you've got to grow older, you've got to go to school, you've got to get a degree, you've got to go out there, you've got to support a family, you've got to be this, you've got to be that.
	Men are taught that early on, the strategy is set, and like I said before, They have a network they're going to walk right into.
	You know, it's that whole brotherhood out there.
	It's that whole boy's network.
	They help each other.
	So my concern isn't for the boys.
	I have two boys.
	I'm not concerned about them.
	If they're going to be smart, they're going to make it.
	They don't need my help.
	It's the girls I'm concerned with.
	Alright, well let's lay this right out.
	Let's say a young lady enters the workplace fresh out of college.
	She's basically taking your advice.
	She becomes a secretary.
	She starts showing a lot of leg during dictation in hopes of advancement.
	I'm assuming she's also taking more courses on the side so that she's educating herself towards any... Alright, fine.
	We'll throw that in.
	The point I'm getting to here is the boss comes around the desk and he starts making the moves.
	I guess the question is, can she succeed without follow through?
	You know, men and women have played the cat and dog game for thousands of years.
	I mean, this is not a new game.
	This is a game that exists all over, you know, in social clubs, everywhere.
	I mean, women have played that game and have kept it going and going and going.
	That's a very good game.
	And women know how to do that.
	I don't know why women are so taken aback all of a sudden.
	They have no clue what they're supposed to do.
	They know what to do.
	They've been doing it their whole life.
	You can handle the same game.
	In the office.
	So the question is, can you get where you want to go without going all the way?
	Oh, absolutely!
	Alright.
	I mean, I'm not advocating, you know, sleep with the boss, and that's the only way you're going to do it.
	When I tell you sleep with the employer, it's because you're going to sleep with someone in the office anyway.
	But certainly, women can definitely move up.
	Look, the whole idea is what we were talking about before.
	Women age differently than men.
	It's true.
	Women have a sexual asset, but they also have one other thing that leaves them very, very quickly.
	It's called youth.
	And that is a tremendous asset for a woman.
	So you're instructing them, basically, to use it before they lose it.
	Right?
	Absolutely.
	It is crucial.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osias.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	Where are you?
	This is Catherine.
	I'm calling from Salem, Oregon.
	Okay.
	Love your show.
	I'm a longtime listener.
	Thank you.
	I'm also a feminist and I'm a liberal democrat.
	All those scary things thrown in together.
	And I figure you must be doing still another paranormal show tonight because Rosalie is obviously from another planet.
	Either that or the state of Oregon is from another planet.
	I'm trying to figure out if this is an East Coast, West Coast thing or what.
	My male friends will absolutely crack up tomorrow when I tell them about this.
	I feel like I'm listening to the 1950s.
	In a way, you are.
	Yeah, but this is... In a way, you are.
	In other words, she is saying the feminist movement came along and changed originally good, in a good way, nearly everything, and then went in the wrong direction.
	And so, in a way, you are listening to the 1950s because, folks, that's what was going on back then.
	Well, you know, in the 1950s, women thought that they would advance themselves by sleeping with a boss and marrying him.
	And usually that's exactly what happens.
	Women did not think of owning the companies.
	I mean, it is a very different time.
	Although, women had the right idea in the 50s that sexuality was definitely a weapon to be used.
	Different goal, different goal, same method.
	I want to say something.
	You're breaking up.
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah, you're breaking up on us.
	Okay, I'm talking to the phone.
	I own my own business and one thing that hasn't been brought up either is that I can't count
	how many times you've used the word manipulate.
	It's an important word.
	I think it's a bad word.
	It's not a bad word.
	That's the way the real world works and that's the way business operates.
	And if you think that people don't manipulate out there... Oh, hell they don't.
	The world is full of manipulation at every level.
	Manipulators.
	But I can tell you with her attitude, I would not hire you to work for me because manipulators are easy to spot.
	I don't like to work with and I know a lot of people who don't like to work with manipulative people.
	And I don't see that as a typical female reaction.
	It really is.
	Oh, please!
	That's a stereotype!
	You know, females walk around saying, oh, let's stop using those bad words and let's not do the things that the guys do.
	But you know something?
	The guys own the world, so I don't see any problem with it.
	I don't agree with it.
	I think more men are insulted by what you say.
	Men are insulted?
	My male friends would be very insulted by what you're saying.
	I just... You must have a very unique group.
	I don't know.
	Well, I don't know.
	I just...
	I'm not trying to be a prude or something, but the idea that, you know... Well, most women who want to get into their own business can't even get a loan from a bank.
	They've got to go and have a co-borrower sign for a loan.
	Okay?
	I mean, they can't even generate the business.
	You know, that one woman has a business.
	You know how many women can't get off the ground?
	Can't negotiate for goods?
	Don't get the same kind of credit rating that men do.
	All of those things are manipulations.
	You've got to manipulate.
	You've got to use whatever you can to do whatever you've got to do to get the money and the power.
	Well, I think it's important being straightforward.
	It just is always kind of working for my colleagues.
	For women it doesn't work being straightforward.
	It works on occasion for men.
	It doesn't for women.
	Well, it has for me and my colleagues.
	I just... You're very lucky then.
	No.
	What kind of business, by the way, are you in?
	Advertising and public relations.
	Oof.
	And, I mean, you know, more power to you if you want to advertise yourself that way, but I'm telling you, you would be laughed out of this particular community.
	It wouldn't work here.
	So I'm trying to figure out... Oh, advertising, though, is the very heart of the good old boy world, isn't it, Rosalie?
	It absolutely is.
	I don't know about being laughed out of your community, but I can tell you that the rest of the world, and I say that, you know, world, not New York or this country, but the world, is not laughing.
	And that's why I'm on the show, because they actually took it very seriously and are very interested and are very curious.
	So obviously, if there's a curiosity about it, it means I've struck a nerve.
	It wasn't my intention to strike that nerve.
	I was really just doing it for myself.
	Well, that's great.
	What bothers me is that I feel like I'm hearing stereotypes.
	There's just no root for that.
	I'd also like to know what you'd suggest for minority, like African American males, because they obviously do not have the power that you're saying women don't have.
	I am not concerned with any male.
	Because you know why?
	It's the women who are third and fourth class citizens in this country.
	Don't you realize that?
	I mean, women are the ones that run to the shelters, and women are the ones that get beaten up by men, and women are the ones that don't have money, and women are the ones that vote in a president that's an adulterer because he's going to give them out handouts.
	I mean, women are the lowest, lowest, lowest people in this country!
	Now she's got you politically as well.
	Well, you know, the bottom line is that women are lower than men.
	I'm lucky enough to know men that don't treat me that way and I've always been nurtured and had mentors and have good male friends and I just think maybe you've had some bad experiences with males in business because I think it's insulting to men.
	It's insulting to women.
	I don't care if it's insulting to men.
	Who cares if I insult men?
	You know, too many feminists run around being concerned about all the men that are being insulted.
	Let's have a little concern about all the women that are being beaten up.
	Can we do something about them?
	What are we doing about them?
	That's kind of a ludicrous comment because anybody who calls themselves a feminist calls Who cares about those kinds of issues?
	What are we doing?
	We care about the issues and you sit and debate it.
	But what are you doing about it?
	We had a China conference just two years ago.
	All the women ran to China.
	We came back from China.
	What did we do?
	We went to China.
	We sat there moaning and groaning that the accommodations weren't what we wanted.
	We came back.
	I didn't see anything different.
	I see the same shelters going up.
	I mean, look, you know, let's wake up, okay?
	Women are the ones that need the help in this country.
	Well, I think we're doing a pretty good job.
	What are we doing?
	Oh, we're building one more shelter.
	I'm sorry.
	No, I just think that social change takes more than 20 years.
	I graduated from college in 1977, and that's when the feminist movement was really... What do you mean social change?
	It's gotten worse.
	I mean, we've been building more shelters in the last 20 years, not fewer.
	I could see if we were on the decline.
	But, you know, if you read the newspapers, I don't know about in your hometown, but here in New York, when I look at the papers and look at all the charity events that are going on, it's just for one more shelter.
	Is there any difference in your community?
	Pardon me?
	Is it different in your community?
	No, of course we have shelters.
	And we're building more.
	But you're getting into some other stuff.
	We have a bigger population.
	People are more likely to report things.
	You know, what I'm trying to tell women is, instead of running around building the shelters and debating the issues, let's deal with the real problem.
	And the real problem is that women have no money, have no means of making money.
	Have no economic power.
	We wouldn't have to deal with all the other issues and the shelters.
	And the way women are going to get the money and the power is to educate themselves, is to know what they want, is to use their sexuality as a weapon, and to get somewhere.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I guess.
	Well, I've done all that without having to use my sexuality.
	If that's what you want to do.
	What is it like to look like a woman and be with a woman?
	Is there a problem with that?
	No, I think I do look like a woman.
	I'm not sure what your definition of looking like is.
	I don't have the internet so I don't know what you look like.
	Not that it matters.
	Too bad.
	Well, what do you look like as a woman?
	I don't know.
	Maybe you look the same way I do.
	Well that's exactly right.
	I don't see what your point is there.
	My point is that most women, the majority of women think that they have to look like
	men.
	dressed like men, and they have to act like men, and look ugly.
	No!
	In the 90s, women don't look like that anymore?
	Oh, for God's sake, of course not.
	Really?
	Not here they don't.
	I don't know, again, where do you live?
	I want to know what community you come from.
	I'm in Salem, Oregon.
	Salem, Oregon.
	A very conservative town, my dad, because we're a capital city.
	Uh-huh.
	I mean, I don't know what you mean by dressing like men.
	We wear whatever we want.
	Obviously, if I go to a business meeting, I have on a nice pantsuit, or a business suit, or whatever.
	I'm not going in a tank top.
	You just hit it on the head.
	Well, what do you want me to wear?
	Should I wear a tank top and shorts to show off my sexuality?
	Instead of a business suit, or you know, trousers and a jacket and a shirt, yeah, I would wear a short, which is, let me tell you what I wear.
	I mean, I'm an attorney and I go into court and I go to a lot of business transactions.
	Millions of dollars.
	What do you wear?
	I wear a mini leather skirt.
	And I will wear a top, a silk top, but I will definitely show cleavage.
	And I will wear a leather jacket that's open.
	And I will wear fishnet stockings and short boots.
	Absolutely.
	And you know something?
	It doesn't change my brain power.
	I would prefer to be in my jeans and my sweatshirt.
	When I go to a business meeting, I wear what's comfortable.
	fishnets and black leather jackets.
	But the idea is to be comfortable.
	The idea is to sell yourself as something and to open up more of a window of opportunity.
	You know, you don't go to business to be comfortable.
	Men don't go to business to be comfortable.
	They go to business to get ahead, make more money, and press the bars.
	That's the whole idea.
	If you want to be comfortable, stay home in the bathroom.
	That's when I want to be comfortable.
	When I go into business, and you know something, I'm very comfortable looking like a sexy woman anyway, but I'm trying to promote an image.
	I want the other side to look at me and remember me.
	Not only for my brain and what I'm saying, but also to remember the visual.
	Because it's the visual they're going to keep with them.
	When they leave my office.
	Oh, I'm sure of that.
	That's the idea!
	I want them to call me again!
	I want the business to come back!
	I get called back all the time wearing sometimes my little business suits, and I've had the same client for ten years, so I guess maybe the answer is you can do what you want, but there's a lot of us out there that are perfectly content to just work well with men and not flash our sexuality.
	Alright, but look, go back to the beginning of the program.
	This woman works for 40 banks.
	They wouldn't even talk to her.
	That was a man's world.
	Then she began to go make personal appearances and get a thigh in the door, and now she represents 40 banks.
	Well, so I know people who... I represent 50 clients.
	I don't understand the 40 banks.
	Big deal.
	I mean... Well, it is a big deal if you understand how she was unable to even get... Maybe it was her personality or something.
	We don't know that for sure.
	I mean, how do you know?
	They didn't like you and maybe your sexuality did turn them on.
	No, I'm the only female attorney who represents banks in New York.
	I still am.
	And there isn't anybody else.
	All right.
	Look, folks, we are at a break point here.
	Rosalie, can you do another hour?
	Sure.
	Cool.
	Caller, can you stay with us for a moment?
	Sure, I will.
	All right.
	It'll be a few.
	We have a newscast coming up.
	So once again, folks, if you would like to see Rosalie Osiris, Uh, what I would suggest is a quick trip to my website.
	It is www.artbell.com.
	Go down into the guest area.
	There are now two photographs there that we had to, uh, kind of put together very quickly.
	But you'll get the idea.
	You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may 27 1997
	her hands are never cold New York
	home ok
	You call me up at 2 in the morning Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 27, 1997.
	Economic survival.
	It is becoming more difficult every year, isn't it?
	Working a nine-to-five job?
	Well, I'll tell you something, you'll survive, but You're never gonna get rich.
	rich. Unless...unless you're willing to consider doing something for yourself.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek.
	The other way.
	Just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
	This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
	And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
	My guest is Rosalie Osiris and she is in a place where the sun is probably getting ready
	to come up in New York.
	Are you beginning to see the hints of some rays out there?
	Oh, it's sunny already.
	It's sunny already.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Good morning, where are you please?
	Hi Art, this is Cindy in Kansas City.
	Hey there.
	The mentality I seem to be hearing, Rosalie, is if you can't beat them, join them, meanin' men.
	You know what they've done to us all these years is wrong.
	And it's like you want to just turn it around and do it back to them.
	Okay, you've got a real feminist here now.
	Well, I really am not.
	Really, I'm a libertarian, to tell you the truth.
	Well, that's your political philosophy.
	We're talking now about the sexism angle of this.
	Well, I'm not sure why you need to use your sexuality.
	It's not all that hard to be more intelligent and witty than men.
	No, it's not, and we are, but we're not getting anywhere by just being smarter and wittier.
	I mean, doing nothing isn't getting us anywhere.
	So, why should I not do something?
	I'm not really playing the man's game.
	I learned how to play the man's game.
	I learned the rules.
	I understood the game.
	And then, I just made up my own rules.
	See, I don't play the man's game.
	I'm playing my game.
	But I first had to understand his game.
	Well, I'm hearing from you, you know, men have done it to us for years.
	What's wrong with us doing it?
	Well, what is wrong with it?
	I know that you're playing the same game that they've played for all these years.
	But it's nature's game, dear.
	And so it's a good question.
	You're right.
	Men have been doing it for years.
	So what is wrong with women doing it?
	Yeah.
	It was wrong when men did it.
	I know, but they're still doing it.
	Have you stopped men from doing it?
	Well, just because they do it doesn't mean that we have to do it.
	You know, I'm sorry, but I want to take some action.
	What's wrong with helping women get, like, business loans and education and be politically active to change?
	Well, you've got to get, but how are you going to do that?
	Women need to have money and power to do that.
	They need to change laws and open banks.
	You don't need to act like a slut to do that stuff.
	Look, you know something, you could... One of the first chances of giving something that you're never planning on doing.
	You know, let me give you the... Going to dinner with your CEO is completely inappropriate.
	Oh, please.
	It is.
	Stop telling women not to do... Now, if you've done it with a group, that's different, but if a CEO asks you out... I'd run.
	...a lesser associate in the office, you know what he's wanting.
	You know.
	Yeah, so?
	It's obvious.
	It doesn't mean you've got to give him anything.
	But it does mean that you have an opportunity to talk to the CEO and let him know how smart you are.
	That could be done in the office.
	Can't women do that anymore?
	What do you think that once you go out to dinner, you've got to sleep?
	Why do you need to lead people on?
	What?
	Why do you need to lead him on and let him think?
	Why?
	Because it's the only way I'm going to get his attention.
	Otherwise, he's going to get the man moved up, not me.
	You know, I realize deals are done over dinner and deals are done in the men's room.
	I'm not going in the men's room either.
	And let's face it, deals are also done in bed.
	It seems to me that if you continue this, you will never change men's minds about women.
	They will just always think that they're right, that they were right all along.
	I'm not trying to change men's minds.
	I'm trying to change women's minds about how To get up and move ahead in their careers.
	I could care less what men think.
	Well, you know, it's been my experience that even the homeliest, ugliest woman in the world, if she has good ideas that will expand business... Who's going to hear them?
	You will be listened to.
	Who's she going to tell them to?
	You make an appointment with your boss, or you make an appointment with his boss.
	Nobody's going to make the appointment for you.
	I mean, that's the idea.
	The boss isn't going to make the appointment for you.
	You're not going to be able to get into anybody's office.
	You're going to associate with your own ideas.
	Let me tell you something.
	It's been an open door policy.
	Let me tell you something that's true.
	Listen to me for a sec.
	Both of you.
	Because it's true with men, too.
	When I was younger, I was very talented in radio.
	Very talented.
	I had wonderful ideas.
	Ideas that absolutely would have made a number one show.
	And would have worked but you know I was a nobody.
	Nobody listened to me.
	Only after I achieved some degree of success did the professional ears begin to listen.
	So you've got to achieve a certain position before people even begin to listen.
	That's true even in the man's world.
	Well in a man's world that's correct.
	You do have to achieve something in order to have some credibility and be heard.
	But as a woman it doesn't matter how much you achieve.
	Even harder.
	It's even harder.
	It's impossible.
	It just doesn't matter.
	So the only way you're going to get the opportunity to be heard is to be looked at first and be recognized.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Women need help to get out there and get their own businesses going instead of playing this stupid little game.
	Look, you're absolutely right.
	But the only people who are going to help women Get out there and get their own businesses and give them money, our women, once they're in that position.
	Because women can't do it now.
	Men aren't giving the money to women.
	Men are giving the money to other men.
	That's just not true.
	Okay.
	This doesn't hurt.
	You can go get small business loans.
	Can you?
	You can get loans for minorities.
	Women are minorities.
	Get a minority vote.
	Look what you just said.
	Women are minorities.
	Yes, they are.
	Don't you find that a pitiful statement to make?
	Yeah, I do.
	And in that respect, I do agree with you.
	Yes.
	Well, that's the only respect that counts.
	Yeah, women are minorities.
	Your motives for going around this, though, are what I object to.
	I think it makes women look worse than we already look to men.
	Well, you know something, you're going to remain a minority if you continue doing the same thing you're doing.
	Because, you know, really women are the ones that still make the world go round.
	We're the ones that have the children.
	We're the ones that deal with the home, regardless of how successful I am and how many businesses I own.
	When my children get sick, even with two nannies, I'm the one that gets called.
	My husband doesn't get called.
	I'm the one that gets called, because I'm still Mommy.
	But you just need to get out there and get something done, and get some recognition, and then people will listen.
	Yeah, but Caller, you know something?
	Rosalie, it's absolutely right about the way men look at women.
	That's what she has realized.
	But she's right.
	She's right.
	And you're fighting a law of nature.
	She's simply accepting it and using it.
	So just accept it and, you know, just accept everything that comes your way.
	Don't never try to change anything.
	You are changing.
	You're going to change the economy.
	No, you're not.
	No, you're not.
	Because this man, once you get done with him, is still going to look at the next woman coming down the line the same damn way.
	Well, that's a stupid woman.
	I'm not talking to the stupid women.
	I'm trying to enlighten them and empower them.
	I'm not trying to make women remain stupid.
	I'm not telling women, you know, go have a fling and then go back to your secretarial desk.
	That's not the idea.
	I'm telling women, get smart, learn a trade, get an education, take the courses you want, set the goals, get the strategy, and then attack.
	That's what I'm telling women.
	All right, well we'll leave it there and move on.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I love your art, you're great.
	Where are you by the way?
	I'm in Arcata, my name is Anastasia, and I'm a feminist.
	I have no problem with dressing sexy.
	I think it's great, and I can understand both sides.
	I can understand on one side is Rosalie, and I'm extreme, and on the other side is The feminist who wants to protect women who have been molested, who have been raped, and who are tired of being looked at as sexual objects.
	I can understand both sides.
	I think we're talking about a lot of issues here.
	First of all, we have rural versus urban.
	If you came up here to Arcata and you dressed in miniskirt and fishnet stockings The judge might throw you out.
	I mean, it's really conservative and that's why we got the woman Kate from Oregon.
	I can see how she would take that position.
	And I can see how Rosalie is in New York.
	It's totally different.
	You know, in New York State, judges don't walk around with garter straps.
	I've lived in New Jersey and I've lived here on the West Coast and it's too different, especially on the Northwest.
	Way up here in the boondocks.
	It's very different.
	There are different mentalities and different things work in different places.
	I don't have anything against women who want to use their sexuality to get ahead.
	If that's what helps, fine.
	That's great.
	I am a feminist.
	In fact, I work for a battle women's shelter.
	I recently went to an honoring a women's dinner and I wore the red sequins dress with the high heels and the stockings.
	And I enjoyed it, and I got some flack for it from women who I believe their position was, you know, we're tired of women being looked at as a sexual object.
	And I can understand them.
	They're trying to help women who have been raped, and women who have been abused, and women who are survivors of that sort of thing.
	But they're trying to keep their job.
	That's their focus.
	So the more battered women there are, the more shelters that they can administrate The more jobs these women are going to have.
	I won't say that that's not true.
	There are some.
	It's a bureaucracy and bureaucracies work for themselves.
	But there are also some who really want to help and their focus is there and that's why they take that position.
	What's their focus?
	What are they doing for these battered women?
	Feminism has many faces.
	I'm a feminist and I was there in my red sequins dress and my high heels and my sneakers and I mean my stockings and I felt beautiful and great and I had no problem with that.
	I had about 50% of the women tell me, you look great, that's wonderful.
	And I had another percentage saying, just looking at me like, what the hell are you doing dressed like that here?
	Alright, here, listen to me.
	Both of you, here's a good fact, right on the mark.
	Art and Rosalie.
	A leather miniskirt, fishnets, stilettos, good lord!
	Rosalie feeds men the picture they want.
	Okay, I personally think it is distasteful to flaunt cleavage in a courtroom.
	Whatever, I guess that's East Coast stuff.
	Admittedly, some of the guys I know would hoot and howl in their Neanderthal way at such a sight, but mostly the men I know would find that type of, quote, staple inner naval, unquote, pinup girl look Fine for a magazine in the bathroom, but not a courthouse.
	If it's working for her, what do they have to say about that?
	It's working for her.
	She's got all this business.
	It's obviously working for her in New York.
	But I don't think it would work in this little rural town where we have very conservative judges, where you have judges throwing women out, plaintiffs, because they're not wearing a bra.
	I mean, they're... How do they know they're not wearing a bra?
	Did they feel them up?
	No, they looked at them.
	You know, but... They looked at them?
	Well, you can tell.
	If a woman's wearing a t-shirt without a bra, you can tell.
	But I'm saying that there's different... There's different mentalities.
	And up here... Well, she... I mean, this... This is a good point, folks.
	It is a good point.
	There are geographic and cultural differences across the country.
	But, you know, not... It would work in one place.
	Not in male-dominated arenas.
	And not in the legal system.
	And really...
	There are no differences.
	You know, a judge is a judge is a judge anywhere in the country, okay?
	And lawyers, male lawyers, are the same anywhere in the country.
	Well, if you have very conservative judges, they're going to have a problem with that.
	I don't know if you ever saw the movie My Cousin Vinny, but it's got that kind of a scene.
	The man is in a small town, and he's dressed New York, and his girlfriend is dressed New York, and they don't take him seriously at first.
	In fact they gave him a lot of flack.
	But then later on they did because they were intelligent and that's what really matters.
	But when you're talking about presentation, which is what you were talking about, presentation and getting ahead, it depends on who you are making your presentation to.
	You change it to accommodate the person.
	Do you hear what she said?
	You change to accommodate the person.
	That's right.
	You vary it.
	I understand business.
	Business is business.
	We're not going to change business overnight.
	There may be some changes, like women having their own businesses, and there are some men Very sensitive men who don't necessarily think that way.
	It's not the majority.
	I would say the majority would probably be more interested in somebody who looked really sexy and pay more attention.
	That's the way the world seems to be.
	I can also understand the feminist who comes from the position where she wants to say, let's change that.
	I can understand that too.
	Realistically I think that's going to take a long time and if you want to really get there now, Rosalie, in New York, might probably be doing really well, but if she came up here, she might have some trouble with the conservative judges.
	I really do think so.
	I think if more women would stop taking the negative position, it's almost like a cop-out.
	You know, all we women say is, we want, we want, we want, but when it comes to action, unfortunately, it's the men who play the game and go out and take the risks and don't mind falling down and getting up again.
	We women seem to be very wimpy when it comes to that.
	We want, but we're not willing to take the risk.
	If all the women in the entire country went and did what I did, what is the world, what is the country going to do?
	Are they going to close up everything?
	We women really are the support staff for the entire country.
	You're not going to have banks closed down.
	You're not going to have companies closed down.
	They're going to have to deal with it.
	Think about it.
	If you don't show up for your boss, are you going to sit at the computer and type?
	I'm trying to sit and imagine a world in which everybody is Rosalie or some version thereof.
	Wow.
	Things would change, Rosalie.
	Absolutely.
	Actually, what I think would happen is that men would soon be Second-class citizens.
	Yeah.
	Now that I sit here and think about it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yeah, I'm on.
	Hey, how are you?
	Hey, we're all right.
	Where are you?
	I'm in San Francisco.
	Okay.
	Rosalie, your main office is in Long Island.
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Rosalie has a very regional take on what A smart, happening woman is.
	And I worked in Manhattan for years.
	Well, I have an office in Manhattan, too.
	Yeah, but you may not be from Manhattan.
	That's why you're in Long Island, because you have a Long Island attitude.
	Yeah, I have a Long Island attitude.
	But you know, until two years ago, my main office was on Clark and 32nd, if you know Manhattan.
	Well, San Francisco is not exactly the suburbs.
	Come on, folks.
	What?
	I said San Francisco is not exactly the suburbs.
	I'm saying that she's not really in the big leagues.
	And in the big leagues, people like her are just seen as clowns.
	You know something?
	The big leagues is how much money you make.
	And I really object to the way that she overrides everybody that tries to talk to her.
	Well, you know, let me ask you this.
	What do you do for a living?
	I work for Sony Pictures.
	You work for Sony Pictures?
	Right.
	As what?
	I'm an art director for them.
	You're an art director for them?
	Yeah, I'm a creative director for them.
	You have an interest in Sony Pictures?
	Yes, I do, as a matter of fact.
	What's the interest?
	What?
	What's the interest?
	Do you own a piece of the company?
	Yes, I do.
	I mean, are you one of the main people?
	We have stock options that are exercisable every five years.
	Oh, okay.
	Do you need to know all this stuff?
	Do I need to know how much it's made in order for you to be a reasonable person?
	Okay, hold it.
	One at a time.
	If you were really, you know, understood how business works, It doesn't really matter where you are.
	What matters is how big your account is, how influential you are in the world.
	You can sit anywhere and influence and have power and have money.
	You know, most people, for all the big companies, aren't sitting on Park Avenue.
	They're sitting in their yacht in the Caribbean.
	What's your biggest client, Rosalie?
	What banks?
	I have a lot.
	Citibank, Chase.
	I mean, I can give you all the major institutional lenders.
	They're all my clients.
	All the banks that you do business with.
	Big banks?
	There's only five major banks in the world that are working.
	But you know something?
	There may be five major banks in the world, but there are about 200 other banks that you don't know about.
	Come on, sir.
	You asked her to name some of the clients.
	She did.
	They're the biggest.
	I'm sure she's great, but she's not the clown in Manhattan.
	I've been to meetings many times.
	I lived in Manhattan for ten years.
	I worked for Satya and Satya, the biggest advertising company in the world.
	I made $60 million for General Mills in six weeks.
	How much did you make for yourself?
	Anybody that walked into a meeting dressed like her is a clown and just would not be paid any attention to no matter how brilliant their ideas are.
	People in Manhattan and in the major centers of the world dress like business people, speak like business people, and they look plenty sexy and attractive without having to dress like a clown.
	Alright, on that note, both of you hold on for a moment because I think that needs to be answered.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may 27 1997
	me. If you want to do that, you'll never.
	Oh, baby. I'll take you down. I'll take you down. No one's ever gone before.
	you.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27, 1997.
	You know, it just occurred to me.
	I'm coming back with this.
	You know why?
	I'll tell you.
	It's because, you know, these young ladies, they were the daughters of a preacher man.
	They used to sing gospel.
	Then they changed their image, their wardrobe, the way they moved.
	And now they're, they're a point of history.
	They're making millions.
	Image, folks.
	Think about it.
	They're a point of history.
	They're making millions.
	Image, folks.
	Think about it.
	Anyway, back to our guests in a moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 27th, 1997.
	Okay, Rosalie Osiris is our guest and by the way her photograph is on my website right now if you'd like to take
	a look.
	You don't want to take a look by now?
	Then check for a heartbeat or something or another.
	You'll see two quickly scanned photographs up there in the new items list at www.artbell.com.
	Here's a fax I just received and then we'll go back to our caller.
	Art, I've got to hand it to you.
	Never has the power of woman's sexuality over men been better demonstrated than on your show this morning.
	I have listened to hundreds of your shows And never have I ever heard you sound so absurd.
	You're acting like a 13-year-old schoolboy, trying his best to get the attention and approval of a 15-year-old schoolgirl down the street.
	And it certainly goes to show that a great deal of what Rosalie is saying is working.
	And he's exactly right!
	He's exactly right.
	Rosalie, I do react that way to you and to other beautiful women, and that's To me, like a law of nature.
	Absolutely, and I'm glad you react that way to me.
	And I don't apologize for it either.
	And why should you?
	And we've been on the phone for five hours, so obviously you also know I can walk and talk and breathe at the same time.
	And I bet you can breathe.
	Alright, Caller, you're back on the line.
	Well, I appreciate the lead you just gave me, Art.
	I think that there's another side of this issue, which is you have to look at what people are up to, as well as what they look like.
	Guys that have been around, that have lived in major metropolitan areas like Manhattan, deal with women like Rosalie a lot.
	You can't be suckered in by the outside package.
	You have to deal with the real meat and potatoes of what's going on.
	Also, her advice is very good for women who have no talent or feel that they have no talent.
	No, it really isn't, because her point was, at the end of the day, you've got to be able to do the job, and when you get to the top of the scale in any business that you're in, if you don't perform, the bottom line is going to destroy you or make you.
	I'll tell you, someone else said, if you perform, you're going to be noticed regardless of what you look like.
	See, that's where she argues with you, and I'm afraid she's correct.
	Well, I'm afraid that in New York she's not correct.
	I didn't realize where you were coming from until just now, you know, when you kind of gave yourself away.
	I mean, first of all, you seem to be concentrating on metropolitan areas for some reason, but I think that guys like you...
	Well, she's from Long Island, she's this, she's that.
	As a defense, because really, you know that I am right.
	And a man like yourself really wouldn't know how to deal.
	You'd realize how vulnerable you really are.
	And I can understand men putting up the defense, because if they don't...
	They're not going to be in the same position they were.
	So now I understand how you're thinking.
	If you've dealt with women like myself before, then you know how effective and powerful we really are.
	I know that you really don't run anything, and that if you really try to sleep your way to the top, you're only going to sleep your way to the middle.
	And you couldn't even get to the top of the law firm you were going to conquer.
	You had to go out and start your own law firm in the hinterlands of Long Island with just an informed arts audience who doesn't know New York.
	You know something, you are absolutely full of crap.
	I'm sorry, I don't usually say that on the radio station, but you really are.
	I want to tell the listeners not to listen to you because you are so full of garbage.
	You have no clue.
	You know something, I don't even want to talk to you because once you said that, I realized
	that you are a jerk.
	I realize that you're a jerk, Rosalie, and that's why I would never do business with somebody like that that advertises their jerkiness in the way that they act, the way that they talk, the way they comport themselves, and their ridiculous clothing.
	Be my guest.
	Please.
	I acquiesce.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Rosalie.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm midway between Arcadia and San Francisco.
	Okay.
	And I'm Katie.
	And I keep going back and forth between wanting to kill you, Rosalie, and kiss you.
	They either love me or hate me.
	One thing that keeps coming to my mind is 20 years ago when I was young and I had a boss physically manhandle me.
	That's the kind of situation that I get afraid of and yet I think of when I was an assistant manager of a major dime store and my sexuality did make a big difference.
	If I dressed appropriately and looked nice I had less problems with male and female customers.
	My manager did listen to me and also while I was waiting I realized you're not saying use sex to get to the top.
	Sexuality and there's a major difference.
	A big difference, yes.
	Manhandling in what way?
	Grabbing my breasts.
	Well, you know, I may have been a little different than you.
	If he would have grabbed my breast, I would have grabbed something of his also.
	I believe you should fight a tiger with another tiger and not run away and be scared.
	If you would have done that to him, I'm sure that he would have backed off very, very quickly.
	20 years later, I know that.
	All right, you two.
	Um, let us move on.
	Thanks for the call.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hello.
	What's her name again?
	Rosalie Osiris.
	Well, I think she's a bitch.
	And I think you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
	Well, there's a way to start out a conversation.
	I think that you ought to be ashamed of yourself, the way you think.
	And I think people like you... Are you referring to me or Rosalie?
	To Rosalie.
	I think people like you, Rosalie, are a germ or a cancer in this country, and I wonder, you know what?
	My mother, my grandmother, if she heard you talking tonight, if they listen to this radio show, My grandmother, she's 82 years old, she'd take you up in a woodshed and kick your butt.
	Who the hell do you think you are talking the way you are?
	I bet you don't even go to church, bitch.
	Bye!
	You're right, I don't go to church.
	I'm Jewish.
	I go to temple.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	I'm an Israeli, actually.
	Oh, are you really?
	Yes, I am.
	You're on the air with Rosalio Saras.
	Hi.
	Oh, I think I should deserve the right to tell you where I'm coming from before I ask my question.
	Well, okay, where are you coming from?
	Well, um... Actually, where are you calling from?
	Michigan City, Indiana.
	Alright.
	I think that there is a double standard, and everybody has it.
	Just like when she called and said that Brazil is in adultery, it's okay, you know, if she's in it.
	So we did, and the women do have an obligation to bring up the Moral standards of this world.
	But, on the other hand, she's right, and to a certain extent, and the pendulum is swinging, swinging, swinging.
	The feminists from the 60s have come out, and we know they're lesbians.
	That's their biggest thing, is that they hate men.
	And on the other side, prostitutes hate men.
	So there's an in-between there that will leave a lot to be desired.
	I think women should not be wearing jeans.
	What do little kids think from the rear end?
	What's a man and what's a woman?
	Women should wear skirts.
	They don't have to be all the way down to the floor, but they don't have to show any body parts.
	They should not be exposed either.
	We have a moral obligation.
	On the other hand, you know, the truth of the matter is that men do like to look at nice-looking women, and if you don't have time to put your makeup on, you're too sick to go to work.
	Really, the way I look at it, you're too sick.
	All right.
	Well, you know, I absolutely have no argument about that.
	I mean, the faxer who faxed me a little while ago and said that I was reacting as a child in love or something.
	Um, you know, basically that's true.
	I mean, that is the way men react.
	Now, we can argue this a hundred million different ways, and I bet you don't even go to church, bitch, and that kind of stuff.
	But the fact of the matter is, this is like a law of nature that we're discussing here.
	Um, and even those people who are calling up and raving and ranting at you, in their hearts, they know you're right.
	And they know it by their own feelings, not by what you're saying, but by their own feelings.
	They just refuse to admit it and get angry when they hear it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	Good morning to you.
	Where are you?
	I'm up in Bellingham, Washington.
	Okay.
	Rosalie, you're just not going to be taken seriously, not in this neighborhood.
	And people who follow your advice are going to have a real limited shelf life.
	A limited shelf life?
	Do you have a long shelf life now?
	If you're making it only on your looks, girl, you're going to have a real limited shelf life.
	You probably didn't listen to the whole show.
	Yeah, I did.
	I keep saying the same thing.
	You're talking thinking, you're talking education.
	Those things will get you places.
	If you're depending on some man to say, yeah, you're a pretty girl, I'll listen to you, then you've got a real limited shelf life.
	Who else is going to listen?
	Then you don't have anything else.
	That's all you've got to offer.
	Yeah, but that is, obviously you have not been listening to the program.
	Well, then, ma'am, she has her... You talk about achieving a certain position, well, I'll tell you what position they're going to look for her in.
	But look, I don't even have to describe myself because I know what position I'm in.
	I own six companies, two law firms, I mean, you know, I don't have to defend what, you know, my position is.
	You're not even going to make the dress code.
	They have a dress code in a lot of places.
	I don't have to make the dress code.
	I make the dress code.
	You do now, but you had to leave your company to do it.
	But I would never have made the millions I make in any company.
	Don't you understand?
	We have a lot of support systems out here for women.
	But I don't need support systems.
	See, that's the difference between me and you.
	The women out there still need a support system.
	I don't need one.
	I have enough money.
	I don't need support systems.
	No one's got to help me out.
	Most people don't.
	I said it in an advertisement a little while ago.
	You can work for somebody else and you'll survive.
	You might even do okay.
	You might get a vacation.
	You might, you know, the 9 to 5 thing.
	But you're never going to get rich.
	You know, the other interesting thing that I keep hearing from your callers is Um, the obligation of a woman to teach her children morals.
	I haven't heard one person yet say, uh, it is the obligation of the parents.
	I notice that it's only the woman.
	It's, it's, you know, and, and I find that incredible, um, how people still think of women having certain responsibilities and God forbid she decides to do other things, uh, or to use her sexuality, which, You know, when you're raising children, you are using your sexuality as a woman.
	So, I am just amazed at that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Mike in Nashville.
	Hi, Mike.
	Hi, Rosanna.
	Hi.
	Rosalie.
	Rosalie, I'm sorry.
	I was looking at my TV schedule here.
	They chopped you off here on WTN in the last 30 minutes.
	Well, that'll be solved soon.
	Good.
	I recommended it too.
	I called in in a nice way.
	Rosanna, Rosalie, my hat's off to you.
	I applaud you.
	At the same time I say that, it's no revelation of what you've done.
	It isn't nothing but chemistry and if you just look back through recorded history and mythology, the women that have always stepped forward And have made their place from Adam and Eve to Cleopatra to Helen of Troy to Delilah and all of that have done it and they've done it by getting their thigh in the door.
	You've got to get the attention first and then you can apply your tactics, your intelligence And I have set up all night long this new station and I hung up like Art instructed to when men were calling in.
	I've had many companies.
	I'm retired now.
	I'm 51 years old, soon to be 52.
	And I'm not retired because I want to be.
	Any man that sets up and says that Well take two twins that are identical, that are fashion models.
	If they walked into a public place and say they sold widgets or real estate or houses and one had on tight jeans and a silk blouse showing a little cleavage and one had on Reeboks and the other one had on high heels and an ankle bracelet, who do you think would get the deal?
	Or get the attention?
	Or get the appointment?
	Just something that small and all that.
	And I've had companies where I set up the sale and just the mere fact over the telephone of saying that I'll have one of our ladies call on you and iron out the differences, that got the appallment.
	Alright, well that says it very well.
	I mean, he really is exactly right, isn't he?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, what's more powerful and overwhelming than a sexy, smart woman?
	Nothing.
	I have no argument for that.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I actually happen to disagree with the last caller, but I have a question for Rosalie.
	Go.
	If a woman had her bachelor's degree, what would she be better to spend her money on,
	getting her master's or plastic surgery?
	I'm going to assume that she's only 22 going for her master's.
	So I would go for one more year, get a Master's.
	But I don't say don't do the plastic surgery.
	Do it as soon as you think you need it because you've got to look good also and you've got to keep the machinery going.
	How about that?
	How's that for an answer?
	Well, not too bad.
	I disagree with a lot of what you've said.
	I think that, as the gentleman said before, if somebody came in wearing Reeboks and jeans over high heels, I would buy the product that I needed, and I would judge the woman.
	You know, I'm not a slave to my... Now, wait a minute.
	These were twins in his analogy, and they're selling equal widgets.
	Oh, okay.
	I would buy it from the one that was the better salesman.
	The one that was better dressed.
	I really am disappointed in you on this show.
	I'm a big fan.
	Look, I live with disappointment, sir.
	I live with it.
	I know.
	It's life.
	I just believe this.
	I believe she is correct.
	You can argue against it on a moral ground if you wish.
	I won't stop you from doing that.
	Everybody's going to believe what they want to believe.
	But I also know what is true.
	But I'm just not a slave to my I think most men are though.
	There's a reason prostitution is around for thousands of years.
	There's a reason there are clubs with women dancing.
	I don't have any problem with that, but there's a market for it.
	I agree with you.
	Women don't go.
	Women don't patronize these places.
	No, they don't.
	Not really.
	I do when I take my clients.
	Chippendales?
	You know, I don't put Chippendales in the same category as topless table dancing.
	I really don't.
	You know, it's a whole different ballgame.
	Women don't really get stimulated by that.
	They really just go there to have fun and have a few drinks.
	Just a quick quote from Timothy Leary, which was that women who strive to be man's equal lack ambition.
	Women who strive to be man's equal lack ambition?
	Well, I'm not trying to be man's equal.
	I'm trying to be superior.
	Actually, I'm trying to be superior, not equal.
	I'm eco now already.
	Alright, well there was a Tim V. Leary quote, who presently orbits the Earth, by the way.
	Yes, I know.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rosalie Osiris, and we're about out of time.
	Hello.
	Hey, how you all doing this evening?
	This is Paul in Cedar Park.
	Cedar Park, what?
	Cedar Park, Texas.
	Home of the killer tornadoes.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, boy, I'm so sorry about that.
	Well, yeah, it was pretty devastating.
	Anyway, we're about out of time.
	Okay, Miss Lee, I hope you don't take this personal.
	This is just my opinion.
	I know you've heard several opinions tonight.
	I feel that it's just a shame that a person of your intelligence, obviously you are intelligent.
	You're obviously a very high caliber woman.
	Thank you.
	You know what you want, you've gone, you've gotten it.
	However, it seems a little unfair to women who don't have that sexuality for you to go out and flaunt it.
	Well, look, sir, we are out of time and nobody ever said life is fair.
	That's true.
	Life is not fair, it's just what it is.
	It's like getting a hand of cards dealt to you.
	Well, Rosalie, you have gone all the way.
	Yes.
	What do you think of that?
	How did it feel?
	It was good for me.
	It was good for me, too.
	All right, well then, we will again do this someday, because you certainly stirred them up, and I'm in the business of stirring pots.
	It was a blast, actually.
	Thank you very much.
	Rosalie, I hope you manage to get a nap before you've got to go off to work.
	I'll try, but I doubt it.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Well, that's it, folks.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you very much.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	Good night.

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