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May 21, 1997 - Art Bell

02:45:00

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Phoenix Lights

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across all these many time zones.
		From the exotic Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chain in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, all the way out into the Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Postpose AM.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Great to be here.
		Well, what an interesting program we have coming up for you this morning.
		My guest right out of the chute here is going to be Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
		And oh my, what a story it is from Phoenix.
		So we will talk about all of that with Councilwoman Barwood in a moment.
unidentified		Councilwoman Barwood in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, most of the listeners of this program are very, very well aware of the incredible sightings over the city of Phoenix recently.
		As a matter of fact, we had a report, a rather detailed, lengthy report, from Peter Davenport at the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
		Peter, if you're out there, give me a call now, and we'll arrange to get you on.
		I shouldn't have called Peter earlier, but let me read you an article as manner of introduction here from the Arizona Republic, that's the big paper in Phoenix, by Chris Fiskis, it looks like.
		Phoenix may have opened an X file on recent UFO sightings over the city, but don't expect it to confirm the existence of Arizona-bound extraterrestrials.
		Councilwoman Frances Irma Barwood recently asked city staff to look into reports of bright lights in the city's March skies.
		The staff's finding, the city does not have an Air Force, therefore there isn't much to tell.
		Since, this is a quote, since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate source of lights such as those that were reported, we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters.
		A three-paragraph report to Barwood states.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Luke Air Force Base officials, however, said they do not plan to investigate.
		The mystery began on a March night when calls began flooding in Duluke, the National Weather Service, the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		Callers reported bright lights in the form of a boomerang, with lights described as red-orange, red, white, or bluish-white.
		The calls came from Pauldon, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Dewey, Chino Valley, and other cities, including Phoenix, Glendale, and the East Valley.
		But the report from the City of Phoenix staff says there were fewer than five contacts, concerned residents, not aliens to the police department, reporting on or asking about these mysterious lights.
		A check with the city's aviation department also turned up little except a few calls.
		And the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, did not report anything unusual.
		Barwood said she isn't surprised by the city's ultra-brief inquiry, saying she expected the staff to brush aside the issue.
		Is that not ridiculous, she asked.
		I thought they probably would say we're not going to investigate, which is basically what they said.
		It's still amazing to me that no one seems to be all that concerned.
		There definitely was something there.
		As to what it was, I don't have a clue.
		I'm kind of an open-minded skeptic.
		Barwood said she has received 50 calls, not five, but 50.
		They all described the same thing, she said.
		The callers all reported something that was huge and made no noise.
		This does not mean it is something out of this world, she said.
		At the very least, you'd think people would want to know what was flying over their homes, but what if it would have crashed?
		I personally don't think it was extraterrestrial.
		I think it was military, on the other hand.
		If it is something from another world, Arwood said, I want to see it.
		She also hears the Francis sees little green men talk and the derisive laughter running through City Hall.
		I know that Skippy and Scott Phelps, Phoenix Mayor Skip Rims, I believe it is, and his spokesman are having a field day over this, she said.
		Doesn't take much to make little minds work hard.
		Hmm.
		Marwood still doesn't understand why such a fuss was made when she asked the city staff to look into the matter.
		The city should get to the bottom of what exactly was flying around the city skies that night, says she.
		It could have done damage to antennas or something.
		And Mr. Miller sent me a pack saying, Dear Art, seldom does one read about any elected official, for that matter, who is willing to acknowledge even the possibility of the existence of UFOs.
		To those of us fortunate enough to know Francis Barwood, the accompanying article, the one I just read, will come as no surprise.
		And he suggested I contact Frances Barwood, who is indeed a city councilman in the city of Phoenix.
		And here she is.
		Frances, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
		I think a better question is, how are you?
		Oh, I'm just fine.
		Frances, you made a fairly caustic comment regarding the way the rest of the city council and the mayor appear to be treating this whole thing.
unidentified		Well, not the rest of the city council.
		Okay.
		The mayor spokesperson particularly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have to ask you to get good and close to your phone.
unidentified		Okay, is that better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, much better.
unidentified		Okay.
		You know, in the past, it's kind of been a little war of words on different matters.
		I ask a lot of hard questions that people don't ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me stop you right there.
		Before we get into this specific incident, I would like to know what is your relationship generally with the rest of the city council and the mayor?
		In other words, is there some political animosity that preceded this?
unidentified		It's kind of been things that have happened over the last five and a half years.
		I am not afraid to ask questions, and I've been told on numerous occasions that it would be better off if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't ask questions.
		But there's a lot of things that I find if it's things that the city did that I don't feel is right, I'll ask the question as to, you know, is it constitutional or, you know, do we feel that we are fighting our citizens, you know, stuff like that.
		And because of that, you know, there's been a little friction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little friction.
unidentified		But the rest of the city council, you know, I would say that they're all, you know, they're really good.
		And, you know, we all try to maintain a professional attitude when we're doing our job.
		And it's just, at times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What got you, Francis, to the City Council?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What got you in politics and motivated to begin doing things and become involved?
unidentified		I kind of backed into it way back in 1985 or 6.
		I was on a transportation subcommittee because of a road that was coming through it with a freeway.
		And I found out after I had bought a house that the freeway was going to take a couple of feet of my front yard, and nobody would give me an answer.
		So I kept asking more and more questions, and I was given the runaround, and I ended up on this transportation committee, and from there was appointed to a larger committee, which was the Squaw Peak Extension Advisory Committee.
		And the mayor that appointed me at the time probably regrets it to this day, but made me think of, well, do you work against or do you work with?
		And I felt that, you know, if I found Citi very interesting, and I decided that I would get more involved with city things.
		And after my youngest child was 17, I ran for city council and won.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And won.
		And I was the only woman.
		And Frances, on what issue, in other words, what do you think accounted for your victory?
		Why do you think you won?
unidentified		Well, there were a lot of things.
		I don't have a problem with telling people when they ask a question exactly where I stand on anything.
		And I've always been that way.
		I don't see why not.
		You know, you either are what you are or you have to make up so many things to cover up what you pretend to be that you end up really mixed up.
		That's right.
		And we can see that in higher-up government a lot of times.
		So, you know, everybody that's ever asked me anything, they'll get an honest answer.
		I don't do the, gee, I don't know, I'll have to look into it type thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is it reciprocal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when you ask questions either across of other city council members or of the mayor, do you get the kind of straight answers that you dish out to your constituents?
unidentified		That's a difficult question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Feel free not to answer any one that I ask.
unidentified		I'll end up probably with a little figure with stick pins in it tomorrow.
		But I sometimes get the runaround, and I realize that people have their jobs to do, and they try to do them as best they can.
		And sometimes that means maybe not saying everything, because if the public knew everything, they'd be maybe upset with some things.
		I feel that if everything is out there, nothing can come back and bite you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I feel the same way.
		Exactly the same way.
		And if it does, at least you've been righteously bitten and you can walk away with a head held high.
unidentified		Well, let me tell you the rest of the story.
		I'm under attack of a recall.
		It didn't have anything to do with this thing, but it was because of a zoning case, and they accused the city of hiding things.
		And I said, no, the city wouldn't do that.
		And, you know, when we voted on it, there was no opposition.
		And I really, I truly believed that until I was called as a witness for a group that was suing the city on another issue.
		And during the time I was giving a deposition, they had asked me a particular question.
		And I said, oh, no, because we didn't know about that in mid-95.
		And they put a letter in front of me that was from our mayor to the head of this company back four months before we voted on it, saying exactly where it was going to go and everything, and not CC to anybody.
		It was a personal letter.
		And they pulled it out of the, you know, the truth and open law, whatever it is.
		And at that point, I was furious.
		And that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.
		I just felt that was extremely dishonest on the mayor's part.
		He could have said right at the beginning, well, Yes, I knew about this ahead of time, but he didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you're under recall because you voted affirmatively without the knowledge of this letter, is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely your constituents understand or do they not, or are they just now hearing?
		In other words, how big an issue has this been in Phoenix?
		Do the people understand the chronology of how it occurred?
unidentified		Some of them do because it appeared in what they kind of call our tabloid type paper, which is the New Times.
unidentified		And, you know, some people tend to disregard that, but a portion of it is, you know, heavy political things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And there was an article that this reporter did, Tony Ortega, and he found out about this letter because I was so furious I told someone who told someone who told him, and then he called me.
		And they did quite a good article on it, and the title of it was, I've Been Had.
		And some of the people who are leading this opposition got that article, and they called me, and they said, you know, well, we felt that it wasn't you, but, you know, are you sure you didn't know about that?
		And I said, there would be no way that I could know about it.
		And also when they went down there to pull all the information about this particular area and case, they did not get that letter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it there are recall efforts against all of those who voted affirmatively.
unidentified		No.
		And it was unanimous.
		It was just against.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute now.
		Wait a minute now.
		That I don't understand.
		Or is it just because it affected the area you represent?
unidentified		That is correct.
unidentified		It's in our village core right north of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you've already got some pretty tough fights you're fighting.
unidentified		Well, and there's a little bit more to that, too.
		Some of the people that jumped onto this recall are people that were angry at me for other reasons.
		I am very pro-gun for law-abiding citizens.
		So am I. I make no bones about it.
		I have a concealed weapons permit, but I've carried a gun for 32 years.
		I'm also a very strong conservative and constitutionalist, and everybody that knows me knows this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I also have a concealed permit, Francis.
		I feel exactly as you do.
		I think even beyond the Constitution that we have a God-given right to protect ourselves against those who would do lethal force against us.
		We have the right to use the same kind of weapon they're going to try to use against us.
unidentified		Well, and look at the cities that have total gun control.
		They're the ones with the highest crime.
		So we know that it doesn't work because the crooks know that they're sitting prey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of interest, and we will finally get to this UFO business, folks, but as a matter of interest, what is the political wave right now in Arizona, Phoenix, specifically regarding gun control?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you on the wrong side of that argument as far as a lot of people are concerned?
unidentified		Well, in some parts of the city, and it was another thing that the mayor and I were on different sides on, even though he is a Republican, he voted for the meltdown of guns and stopping the police auctions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The meltdown of guns.
unidentified		Yeah, it's an unbelievable thing, and meltdown of guns and making works of art out of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Works of art.
unidentified		So I said what they should do is make a big gun, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One great big gun out of little ones, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, so it's been, you know, it's kind of been just a total opposite philosophy and ideology, and I think that's been part of the problem.
		But my area is, I would say, mostly conservative, but, you know, there's other areas that are not.
		And there's a lot of people that feel that, you know, we need more laws and we need government to protect us.
		And, you know, and I feel just the opposite.
		People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
		So, you know, I am not shy, and it causes me some grief from time to time, but I sleep well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		And that's really what counts in the end.
		You've got to be able to sleep well.
		And I feel exactly the same way.
		I would describe myself as a fiscal conservative, politically somewhat of a mixture, with an awful lot of libertarian thrown in.
unidentified		That's kind of where I'm at, and that's what gets me in some trouble, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
		So anyway, what day in March was it that all of this began to manifest itself over the Phoenix skies?
		Arizona, really.
unidentified		First of all, let me tell you that I did not see it, and I'm so upset with myself because I was in a meeting.
		But apparently it was on March 13th.
		It wasn't Thursday, and apparently it was somewhere between 8.30 and 9.30.
		And I saw it when I got home.
		I got home about 20 minutes to 10, and at the 10 o'clock news, they had it on all of the news channels with videos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With video, right.
unidentified		And I looked at it and I go, whoa, incredible.
		I didn't realize at the time to compare it to what was on the ground under it to realize how big it was, but that came later.
		I had assumed at the time that there was an investigation going on because it was on all these news channels.
		And so I thought, gee, I wish I would have seen it, and that was that.
		It wasn't until two weeks ago from yesterday that I was on my way to a policy session at 2.30 in the afternoon.
		And we have chambers across the street from City Hall.
		And as I was walking over there with another council member, this TV crew from Extra jumped out and said, excuse me, but how come nobody from the city will talk to us?
		And I said, what are you talking about?
		And he said, well, nobody will talk to us.
		And I said, what do you want to know?
		And she said, well, you know, there were the lights that were over Phoenix on March 13th, and everyone we've talked to said they don't want to talk about it.
		They're not investigated and not investigating and they're not interested.
		And I said, Well, I thought it was being investigated and she said, No, it wasn't and I said, Well, I'll ask.
		So I went into policy session and that's our only televised session.
		And I, you know, sit down and we get a little blip in the beginning of the session that we're allowed to ask any question on anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to hear exactly what you asked, but we're at the bottom of the hour, so hang tight and we'll be back to you.
		Absolutely fascinating.
		Councilwoman Frances Barwood from Phoenix is my guest.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM.
		Got a black magic woman, got a black magic woman.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks, tonight at oncour presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would like to invite Phoenix to call those of you who saw the lights and know about this situation.
unidentified		Screams
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we are interviewing a councilwoman Frances Barwood in Phoenix.
		And where we left off, she had gone into, I guess, a meeting, one in which there is television coverage, and I guess each council person gets to make a short statement or something or another.
		You had just been confronted by extra cameras, and you said, I'll ask.
		So you went in there with television blazing away, and what did you say?
unidentified		Well, I said that I was stopped by a TV crew outside, and that they had asked about the lights that appeared over Phoenix on March 13th, and apparently nobody is doing an investigation, so I would like to request that we do the investigation.
unidentified		And there was silence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Silence.
unidentified		And then they said that they would look into it.
		Well, that was on a Tuesday.
		By the next day, I was told that I should not have asked that question.
		It was ridiculous.
		And then by some others that I opened Pandora's box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who first told you, and again, I've got to ask you to get close to that phone.
unidentified		Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
		There you are.
		Just stay close to it forever.
		I need to talk louder.
		Project, kind of like you were in the chambers without a mic.
		Okay.
		Who said it was a question better not asked?
		Another council person?
unidentified		No, it was a staff member.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A staff member.
unidentified		And it's because I ask questions that, and I've done things that get me in a lot of trouble from time to time, but I think that they're the right things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
unidentified		And one of the things I did that they were very upset with me in the past was we had, I don't know if you know about the flag exhibit that went to the Phoenix Art Museum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I do.
unidentified		And I felt it was degrading, and it was in a city building, and it was a taxpayer's expense, and I felt it shouldn't be there.
unidentified		And so I opposed it very vocally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the American flag.
unidentified		It was called Old Glory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In which people had to stand on it to sign something or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		Then they had one flag made out of human skin, and the guy wouldn't tell where he got the skin from.
		And then they had some obscene things made out of flags.
		And it was just totally, it was definitely, to me, degrading our flag.
		And I have a hard problem with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do too, Francis.
		Although I feel two ways about it.
		One, had it been on private property...
		I really don't support a constitutional amendment to put people in jail for things they do to the flag, because I suppose freedom is not freedom unless it's really free.
		But on the other hand, when it's done at the expense of the taxpayer, it's kind of like the prayer and school argument, is it not?
		In other words, public schools are one thing and the private sector is very much another.
unidentified		Well, I guess that's where I differ a little bit.
		I feel that freedom of religion and separation of church and state means that the government is not going to interfere if we want to pray.
		And so I feel a little bit different on that.
		And with the flag, you know, they kept saying, well, it's not a taxpayer's expense, but it was totally because the funding came from three universities back east, which were all taxpayer funded.
		And the building itself, it's owned by the city of Phoenix, which is the taxpayers' ongoing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but the point I was making is, for example, at Christmas, when there is some sort of display on city grounds, they usually order it removed because it is on public property.
		Isn't that true?
		Isn't that how they go after it usually?
unidentified		That's true.
		And yet with this, they felt that this was perfectly justified.
		I felt it was an embarrassment to the city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Fortunately, I was the only one on the council that felt that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I find that incredible.
unidentified		Well, I got beaten up pretty good about that one.
unidentified		But, you know, and they did cartoons in the paper And all that, but I still.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did Benson do a cartoon on you?
unidentified		As a matter of fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we share that in common then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been down the Benson Road a few times myself.
unidentified		But I don't have a problem with that because that's what I believe in, and I feel that I was right, and that's that.
		The other thing was we have a National Memorial Veterans Cemetery here, and some developers tried to put a road right through the middle of it, and kind of underhandedly they went and did a court suit.
		They didn't put in the fact that that was a cemetery there, and they brought the plans from 1965, and the judge gave them the right to put this road through this, what looked like state land, but it wasn't.
		It was our National Veterans Memorial Cemetery.
		So another woman and I went out there and blocked the bulldozers.
		And, you know, the veterans were definitely great.
		I mean, they came out there en masse.
		Unfortunately, the city was very upset with me, but the city was the one that gave them the permit to go through there, and they knew.
		I mean, they knew that that was a cemetery.
		Well, some of those people from this development group have joined on this recall also.
		So it's been kind of real interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm beginning to get the picture.
		Yeah.
		In other words, this recall may be about a whole lot more than what you originally stated.
		In other words, you may be a total thorn in their side.
unidentified		It may be the vehicle for them to use.
unidentified		And the recall was on hold because I am not running for another term, and my term will end the end of December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to do?
unidentified		Well, I'm either going to be a real person again, or I may go for one other office, but then that's it.
unidentified		But it was on hold because it was kind of ridiculous to have a recall being that there was going to be a regular election and I wasn't running anyway until the Monday after I asked the question and it had appeared in the paper on that Saturday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has your experience with politics, Francis, made you cynical?
unidentified		It's made me aware that, you know, I've got a sign in my kitchen that says, I love my country, but I fear my government.
		And I think, you know, government has gotten too much power, and people are too afraid of things.
		I mean, I have been warned by so many people, like, just watch your back.
		And one pilot said to me, watch your six.
		Well, I didn't know what a six was until another pilot explained it to me.
		And, you know, it's really sad to feel that way because the people are supposed to be the bosses.
		And somewhere along the line, it has totally reversed, but it's reversed all the way to where the city is supposed to be the main power, the state, the secondary, and the federal, the third, and the people are over all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and it's totally reversed with federal government is you know on top of everything and total power and over everybody else and it's just Don't open this up or you're going to be history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've ceased caring.
unidentified		You do.
		I figure, you know, you just, to me, life is a learning experience.
		And if you're going to be afraid of everything, I mean, I've been shot at at my front door, not because of this.
		This happened, you know, back always.
		I've had my tire spiked.
		I've had dog crap thrown all over my driveway.
		I've had so many death threats that it gets to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got a nice big file, too.
unidentified		Yeah, and the thing is that...
unidentified		And you can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life goes on.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you went in and you requested they investigate publicly, requested that they investigate what occurred in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you got a deathly silence, I guess, and you got people saying you shouldn't be bringing this subject up, and then what?
unidentified		Well, you know, little odds and ends, little snickers and stuff like that, which I understand that.
		But, you know, it came out that I asked about UFOs, and I never ever said that.
		What I said was there were these lights that were over Phoenix and traveling very slow, and they're not investigating.
		We should look into it.
		Now, I would think, you know, being the city, that at least there would be some concern as to if, okay, if this was an airplane and it was, you know, in our airspace, overpopulated area where it shouldn't be, something's wrong here.
		We have to look into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree more.
		Now, did they look into it?
		What did the Air Force Base say?
		They said, is the article correct?
		They said, we just don't know anything about it.
		We're not investigating or what?
unidentified		That's true.
		They issued a press release and said it wasn't anything we had anything to do with, and we're not investigating.
		And every department that they called to find out, the news media called to find out, you know, it was the same thing, including the city of Phoenix.
		But I didn't know that at the time.
		And I just couldn't understand it because I'm kind of inquisitive by nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't understand it now.
		The Air Force had something called Project Blue Book that looked into UFOs many, many years ago.
		And the conclusion was that, yes, there were a percentage of sightings that simply could not be explained, but, according to the Air Force, they did not, whatever they were, represent a threat to national security.
		And I have a very hard time with that one.
		If something is above our airspace, and in this case, above your city, and it's massive, and it doesn't represent a threat to national security, then what does?
unidentified		Well, yeah, how do they know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		What does represent a threat to national security?
		I mean, I thought the whole idea of the Air Force was to control, maintain control of our airspace.
		Now, maybe I'm missing something here.
		And what I may be missing is that this craft or this whatever it was might have been ours.
unidentified		It could have been.
		when the article appeared in the paper a week ago, Saturday, I wasn't even up yet when I started getting phone calls.
		And people started calling me from all over the state, to the north all the way from Prescott and Prescott Valley.
		And to the west and to the east.
		And it went from Kingman to Mesa all the way down to Gila Bend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I want to tell you, I had gazillions of faxes and emails and phone calls.
		And in this article, it says, quoting, but the report from the city of Phoenix says, staff, says there were fewer than five contacts to the police department reporting or even asking about the mysterious lights.
		Five calls, Francis.
unidentified		I can only go by what the report says.
		And I would think that because of the description of this, that people were more, they called the TV stations.
		And I think they were more curious as to what it was than afraid because, well, let me tell you what people described to me.
		Sure.
		And this is real interesting.
		All these people hadn't talked because I asked them if they talked to Sky Watchers or MUFON or the UFO Reporting Center.
		They had not.
		And some of them did towards the end.
		But the first ones that called me did not.
		And they said they didn't tell anybody because they thought that people would think they were crazy.
		And they all said the same thing.
		It had three to seven lights.
		One person said maybe nine.
		They were amber or white.
		It was a triangle or boomerang shape.
		It was extremely enormous.
		They said somewhere the size of a football field up to one mile.
		It was at about 1,000 to 5,000 feet elevation, altitude.
		But they all said the same thing.
		Absolutely no noise.
		And the man that called me from Prescott Valley was outside with some friends, and he said that the way they noticed this thing was it had no lights on it.
		They were all off.
		They noticed because it's a higher altitude up there and it blocked out the stars.
		And he said it was so huge that they just kept watching it and it moved so slow and no noise.
		He said we couldn't figure out what the heck was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now that conflicts with a little bit of what I've heard.
		I heard the initial explanation was these were military flares.
unidentified		Now there's something else that went on at that night.
		And that's where a lot of people, I think, got a little confused.
		There were lights in a place that we called South Mountain or Estrella, one of those two.
		Some people feel that those were flares.
		But that was much later at night and had nothing to do with this as far as we can tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Flares do not block out the stars.
unidentified		No.
		No.
		And there were so many people that actually caught sight of a shape that, you know, there's no doubt to me because of all the phone calls that this was something, to me it was a huge stealth bomber from what they described.
		But the pilots that called me and the ex-military and one very prominent person in Phoenix, they all said the same thing, was that when they first saw it, they thought that it was a plane formation coming.
		And as it got closer, they realized that these lights were on one object.
		They didn't move separate from each other.
		They were fixed.
		And as it got closer yet, I mean, this one guy said, I was a pilot for 27 years, and he said, I have never in my entire life seen anything as huge as this.
		So I said, how big would you say it was?
		And he said, I would say close to a mile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A mile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like something from Independence Day almost, doesn't it?
unidentified		Well, and okay, now I had to tell you, I was at a meeting where this guy was totally panicked.
		And he said, this is really scary.
		This is awful.
		This is like, and I said, listen, if by some chance it did come from somewhere else, and they have the power to get all the way to here, and I'm afraid to fly, so, you know, and they got here and they flew over a populated area, and they were so obvious so that, you know, we actually saw them, except I didn't, but, you know, that people actually saw them.
		They could have wiped us out in a shot, and they didn't, so they can't be dangerous.
		And he goes, oh, okay.
		So that's kind of my philosophy.
		I am real curious, and I think if it was something that wanted, you know, to do harm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They would have done it.
		But still, the quest for knowledge alone seems to be getting you in trouble.
		I mean, even to ask.
		And I will agree with you also on this.
		You never said UFO.
		You never said spaceship.
		But I noticed that the Arizona Republic headlines it.
		CD probe of UFOs is grounded.
		Staff tells Councilwoman Phoenix can't investigate UFO sightings.
		UFO is plastered all over the article.
unidentified		I think that it's, you know, the old how do we sell newspapers type thing.
		And, you know, I wish that, first of all, the Republic did not even cover it until five days after.
		And, I mean, it was all on all the TV shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's another good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people in Phoenix called me and asked about that.
unidentified		Yeah, that I still don't understand till this day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they were waiting for Benson to finish his cartoon.
unidentified		I guess.
		But, you know, it's real curious to me.
		It's just real curious.
		I figure, hey, why not?
		Let's Look at the whole darn thing and, you know, do process of elimination.
		And if it is, you know, some military thing, well, then the military should say, hey, listen, it was one of ours.
		We're doing some secret stuff.
		And I'd say, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In my whole life, Francis, I've only seen one thing.
		It was, guess what?
		A triangle several years ago now.
		About 150 feet above me, totally noiseless.
		My wife saw it with me.
		We watched it pass above our heads and float across the valley.
		Now, fly, float.
		This thing was doing about 30 miles an hour.
unidentified		That's what they say with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Very slow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very slow and utterly quiet.
		I mean, out here where I am, you can hear crickets at a quarter mile, and I could hear them as this thing came directly over our head.
		No known propulsion system that I'm aware of can do that.
		Frances, I want you to hold on because I want to take some calls from Phoenix, all right?
		So stay right there, and we'll do a little more after the top of the hour.
		My guest is a Phoenix councilwoman named Frances Barwood, who appears to be in some trouble for just asking questions about what happened over Phoenix.
		If you are one of the five people, you can put that one in quotes, who saw this object, I would very much appreciate a call from you at about this point, and we'll get you on the air after the top of the hour.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
		She had the guts to ask a few questions that seemed to have her in all kinds of trouble.
		Aside from what other political troubles may be looming on the horizon, she dared to ask about the lights, the massive, massive lights that appeared over the city of Phoenix.
		It's a big city, folks.
		A couple million people in the Phoenix area.
		And so we're talking with her, and there's more to the story.
		Stand by.
		The End Once again, I've got the lines open specifically for Phoenix.
		If you saw the lights, if you know about the story, then we would encourage you to participate.
		We're going to be getting to the phones in just a moment.
		Now, once again, back to Frances Barwood, a council lady, a councilwoman, I guess, for the city of Phoenix for at least a while longer, huh?
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you mentioned to me before the program something about air traffic controllers.
		I had heard that there was no radar acquisition of these at all.
		What do you know about that?
unidentified		That's true.
		And when Extra did its follow-up story on our Channel 12 out here, they had two flight controllers that were on duty that night, and they asked them, you know, if they picked up anything on radar.
		And they said, no, absolutely nothing, but they saw it visually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They saw it, but they picked up nothing on radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and I mean they The guys.
unidentified		I mean, they were on extra.
		And I was really surprised because I did not know that they had interviewed them.
		So it was like, wow, you know.
		But there were people who lived down past the airport.
		One man in particular, he said he was going to go to bed.
		It was 8.30.
		Went to turn off the TV.
		And he looked out his window and he saw what he thought was a big jumbo jet going to crash.
		And he grabbed his wife and said, let's get out of here.
		And they went outside, and he said it leveled off, and it kept coming, and it kept getting, you know, as it got closer, bigger and bigger and bigger.
		He said, it was absolutely humongous, and it went over him, and he said, absolutely no noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		This is not like some poor little fellow out in the middle of the desert where I am here having some sort of encounter that he cannot explain.
		That happens all the time.
		It's one person.
		But here we're talking about a city.
		What is the rough population of Phoenix?
		It's around 2 million in the area, isn't it?
unidentified		It's actually about 1.4.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1.4 million?
unidentified		The valley itself, which is the small city surrounding us, is a little over 2 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
		So it was seen in that general area, wasn't it?
		In other words, it could have been seen if 2 million people had been out looking up at the sky.
		2 million people could have seen it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're not talking about some little trivial incident here, which surprises me with regard to their attitude.
		Now, I've got to ask you this, Francis.
		Do you think that they know more than they're telling?
		In other words, that the Air Force came to perhaps the mayor or somebody at that level and said, look, it's something we were doing.
		We can't talk about it.
		We don't want publicity about it.
		which might account for the Arizona Republic's halting reporting, delayed reporting.
		I don't know.
		I'm just stabbing in the dark here at such a large incident over such a big city that the response is a little puzzling.
unidentified		Well, yeah, and I think people's imaginations go wild when you don't tell them anything.
		Yes, I think that people being fairly sensible most of the time, if the military would say, hey, listen, we were doing something, really sorry, but quite the opposite.
		They issued a press release saying it wasn't us, we didn't do it, and we're not going to investigate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so, no, but again, going back to my question, do you think it's possible that, in other words, do you behind the scenes have the feeling the mayor might know more than he's saying about this, for example?
unidentified		I honestly don't know, and I didn't see any clue to that, so I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's talk to a few people, at least five, in Phoenix.
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Francis Barwood.
		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I was at Clover Nook Putt-Putt with my little two-year-old son when we saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you see?
unidentified		We saw huge lights, huge lights.
		It wasn't just me.
		Probably about 60 other people over there saw it.
		I just looked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 other people?
unidentified		Yeah, about 60.
		They were at the putt-putt.
		It's putt-putt driving range as well.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you were outside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, you would see such things.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and how big would you say it was uh...
unidentified		it was quite a ways from us but uh...
unidentified		tried to get uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, guess at two things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How high in the sky did it seem, if you had to guess about that?
unidentified		I'd guess probably about 3,000 feet up in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		3,000 feet?
unidentified		Yeah, from where we were.
		And, you know, this stuff is just been weird here.
		And it's about time that somebody in government, I guess, talks about something, at least poses the question to some of the powers that be.
		Because this is obviously something that's really happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and i don't think it's a military if it was a military It's a classified project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was us.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I mean, that would be the reasonable thing to do.
		Instead of being evasive, well, they aren't even being evasive.
		I said it wasn't them at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even that's puzzling, because you would think if the military was doing it, that they would not do it directly over the city of Phoenix, of all places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's a lot of barren land for you to do that kind of thing in.
unidentified		Certainly.
		It's just all I can say is everybody here that I know is kind of like in denial.
		We really don't want to believe it, but it's scaring the heck out of us.
		If it's a UFO, that might explain some of the denial.
		People don't want to believe in that kind of stuff.
		Anyway, sure, go ahead.
		Could I ask you, my phone number is in the phone book.
		Could you give me a call?
		Sure.
		And I'd really like to kind of hear everything that you saw.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I'm keeping track of everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you?
unidentified		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Caller, thank you, and thank you for the support.
		So you really want to hear from people who saw this?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to get a lot of calls, Francis.
unidentified		I have gotten a lot of calls, but that's okay, because I really feel that for one thing, people are relieved to talk about it.
		And they've been afraid to say anything to anybody.
		And I would say most of my calls, when they call, they say, you know, we didn't say anything to anybody because we're just so afraid that somebody would laugh at us and think we're crazy.
		So just by talking about it, that's one thing.
		But, you know, it helps to get everybody where they were at the time and the angle they saw it at.
		And the group, Sky Watchers, is doing like kind of a big map where they're marking all where the people were and where they saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should know you're not alone, Francis.
		There's a congressman named Schiff in New Mexico who has run into some brick walls trying to ask questions about what occurred at Roswell.
		So many brick walls that, you know, he was just doing a casual request for information, and the brick wall was so hard and so thick that he became suspicious and began digging deeper.
		And lo and behold, the records of the time in question unfortunately were destroyed in total.
		It was an amazing story.
		So you're not the only one, but you are a very brave one because not too many people in government at any level are willing to even open their mouths and ask a question like this.
unidentified		Well, you know, I don't consider myself brave because to me it's kind of that's the way it should be.
		But I'm also a Christian, and somebody said, well, how can you, you know, even think that this could be from somewhere else?
		And I said, well, I didn't say that, but, you know, people are the only ones that limit God to earth.
		He's supposed to be the God of the universe.
		Here, here.
		And if, you know, he could put us here, why couldn't he put some people other places?
		And so, you know, while I've never seen anything and I'm totally skeptical, I do want to see something.
		I feel, you know, let's just keep an open mind and look at everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I share that view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Ark.
		Hi.
		Come to Mesa, Francis, so I'll vote for mayor for you over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Mesa, huh?
unidentified		Right.
		I saw the lights, and at the time I didn't think anything of them much.
		It wasn't seven, ten days later when I saw something on the news eclipse talking about it.
		And I thought, well, that must have been those lights I saw.
		But at the time, I didn't think anything about it.
		The only unusual thing was I didn't hear any noise.
		What I thought it was, I stepped outside in the backyard to check out Help Bot for one of the last times, because it was starting to fade away at that time.
		In the northwest sky, where I was looking for the comet, I saw the lights about five to seven, and at the time it appeared to me as National Guard copters, which usually fly on the weekends, which we see all the time, in a formation.
		So that's what I thought it was.
		The unusual thing for me was that it was at night, which I usually don't see him at night, and there was no noise at all.
		But it wasn't odd enough for me to even tell anybody about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this, Color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you surprised by the city's lack of reaction or muted reaction to Councilwoman Barwood's request for some sort of investigation?
unidentified		I am surprised about that.
		And the only other thing that concerns me is with the direction I sought, which took it directly over Sky Harbor from my vantage point, and I would think radar would have seen something on their screens.
		That's the unusual thing that comes out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now let's think about that for a second.
		The United States has now craft that it flies that are not detectable by conventional radar.
		If we have that, then it's equally possible that it was ours or somebody else's.
		But you've got to imagine somebody who could get here would have, at the very least, the ability not to be noticed on radar if they wished it to be so.
		I mean, if we can have that technology, they can, right?
unidentified		Well, that's true, but I would think I'm thinking it's probably something of ours, but I don't know why the government or whoever wouldn't come out and just say, yeah, it's secret or we're not going to talk about it, instead of just playing dumb about it.
		And they were being kind of obvious.
		Right, that seems strange.
		But I watched it for a good five minutes fly to the north and directly straight line to the south towards Tucson until it went out of the horizon.
		I would have thought I'd grab my video camera, but I didn't even think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, I must say, after the initial running of the footage, it's like you didn't see it again.
		And this is one of the more massive sightings anywhere in a long time.
		And suddenly the footage kind of disappeared from the radar scopes.
		No pun intended.
unidentified		Yeah, I never saw any of the video myself compared to what I saw.
unidentified		I wish I could have seen some of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Contact Frances Barwood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She needs support.
unidentified		I'll do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		And you're actually in the phone book in Phoenix, Francis?
		I am.
		Brave, too.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Francis Barwood.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Francis.
		Hi, dear.
		I'm one of the guilty ones that hasn't reported what I saw yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Phoenix, all right.
unidentified		All right, this is Scott in Phoenix.
		Glendale, actually.
		I have a pretty dark neighborhood.
		I live in the Union Hills, 35th Avenue area, which Francis would be familiar with.
		Yes.
		Getting ready to watch a Suns game that night.
		Suns were doing better.
		8.30 right on the nose, and my wife is talking on the phone in the backyard.
		She says, come out and look at this.
		What is this?
		And I look at it, and it's a V-shaped formation of lights.
		About six, I think, is what I saw.
		Two were very close together, right at the very nose of the triangle.
		And I was baffled.
		It looked huge.
		And I stand outside quite often and watch the air traffic go back and forth.
		I know what's going to Sky Harbor and what's going to the military bases.
		That's why she usually asked me, gee, this is something I haven't seen.
		What is it?
		And I would usually explain.
		And this time it would, I don't know what that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you estimate altitude and size?
unidentified		I'm not very good at that, but it was, you know, a thousand feet or more.
		The lights weren't that bright.
		So I had had my binoculars handy.
		I was watching Hailbob earlier also, and grabbed the binoculars, and not only my wife, but my 13-year-old son was outside, and we're all watching this.
		I have the binoculars, and I'm trying to find a craft in between the lights.
		And I can't see any metal.
		I can't see anything there, just the same color as the background.
		I can't say that I could see stars through it or we're moving, for one thing.
		Was the binoculars moving through the sky trying to look at something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, was the sky clear enough that you should have been able to see stars?
unidentified		Oh, yes, it was very clear.
		And in March, 830, it was dark enough to see plenty of stars.
		But I can't recall seeing any stars through it.
		But as I was following it through the path, I couldn't see any craft.
		There was no metal or anything there.
		And I handed the binoculars to my 13-year-old son, and I said, you look at that.
		Can you see anything?
		And he looked at it, and the same thing.
		He couldn't see anything in between the lights.
		And it came from the northwest, floated pretty much right over our house, made no sound whatsoever.
		And I hear all the craft that go over the house.
		I can, you know, eventually you'll hear a sound.
		This was completely quiet and just looked like it was heading right through the middle of Phoenix, right down towards Sky Harbor.
		That's exactly the route.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you have not reported this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't get on the phone and call.
unidentified		No, I just thought, well, this is something kind of strange.
unidentified		And I did hear your show that night with Peter Davenport.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And that's when I went, wow, this obviously was really something strange.
		Yes.
		And followed it a little bit.
		I do have to give the Arizona Republic credit because when they did have an article four or five days later, they pretty much just told the facts.
		They didn't fill it with a bunch of the flare things or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, the flare story seemed to flare up and then quickly die off.
unidentified		Yeah, I think it started the next day because of the video.
		The only video they had, these things looked stationary.
		And somebody said, well, the only thing that we know that can do that are the military flares that have the parachutes.
		They seem to tend to hold their position for a while and then disappear.
		So, but that was just making an explanation for the video that really has nothing to do with the fact that this thing floated for miles and miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		How do you feel about the city's reaction?
		now i read the uh...
		uh...
		the uh...
		the uh...
		the peace by uh...
		the republic on the air and the city's reaction seems to be It seems to be nervous.
unidentified		seems to be a nervous reaction the only thing i've heard from the mayor of any quote that i And that's where the terminology of UFO gets confused.
		People forget it doesn't mean it's something from outer space.
		It's just we don't know what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, we don't want any of those things over our city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't want to talk about it.
unidentified		Well, I'm a little nervous about it being over the city if they don't know what it is.
unidentified		And obviously, nobody seems to want to check it out or even talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, who in this case would be our protectors?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would imagine it would be Luke Air Force Base, wouldn't you?
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		They seem to be asleep that night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to investigate any of those things either.
unidentified		There was another really strange thing that I thought that happened in my neck of the woods here, and that was about a half an hour after the thing floated by, just an enormous amount of helicopter activity up here.
unidentified		They were flying north from my house and seemed to be landing someplace, and one flew right over my house and almost stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Military, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Military or civilian?
unidentified		I have no idea.
unidentified		By that time, it was about 9 o'clock at night, and all I could see were lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, you too should contact Frances Barwood.
unidentified		Oh, I definitely will.
		I've held off long enough.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, Caller.
		Francis, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		Frances Barwood, a Phoenix City Councilwoman who dared to speak up about what's going on in her skies, is my guest for the moment.
		If you're in Phoenix, please give us a call.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in Todd, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood, who had the nerve to simply ask that this massive, massive whatever in the hell it was above Phoenix be investigated.
		And she more or less hit a political brick wall.
		Are you surprised?
		We're sort of holding our lines open as we're able for Phoenix people to call in.
		So if you saw it, if you're in Phoenix, please pick any of the numbers that you're able to get through on and give us a call.
		We'll get back to Francis Barwood for another 30 minutes in a moment.
		All right, back now to Councilwoman Frances Barwood, Councilwoman for the City of Phoenix.
		And I'm curious, Frances, how's the rest of the media, other than the Republic, treated you?
		I mean, have you done radio interviews?
		Have you talked to people?
		What's the deal?
unidentified		I've done a few.
		When anybody asks me, I'll talk to anybody.
		So it's been interesting.
		When I'm not on a show, I got blasted.
		Our Attorney General seems to enjoy poking fun, and he has a talk show on Friday afternoons.
		And he really blasted me.
		His name is Grant Woods, and he gives out what he calls Woody's to whatever he feels, you know, like he feels like making fun of.
		And I was nominated by him, and it was interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's such an easy, cheap shot to make.
		I take them all the time.
		But I think, Francis, that, for example, Gallup polls taken recently show that the greater percentage of the American public happens to be on your side.
		Now, you're being very conservative in the way you're approaching this request for an investigation.
		And I must tell you, and whatever his name is, should take this into consideration, that more Americans than not believe something real is going on, and they're not chuckling, and it's showing up in every Gallup poll.
		So, you know, some of your colleagues, perhaps, would be wise to read the polls, which politicians normally do, before acting and opening mouth and engaging, you know.
unidentified		Well, I don't read the polls, so I guess I'm kind of guilty of that myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they should, because it may be that a lot of people in Phoenix and around the country simply don't agree with that kind of chuckle dismissal.
		That's what I call it.
		First time caller line, you are on the air with Francis Barwood.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Phoenix.
unidentified		My name is Kurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Kurt.
unidentified		Yeah, and I just was absolutely ecstatic to hear this discussion tonight because I saw this thing in the sky, and my first impression was this was something totally unnatural.
		And when I say unnatural, unnatural in the sense that it did not appear to be hovering helicopters or flares or airplanes or anything of that sort.
		I was driving in my car at the time, and my impression was that these lights are stationary.
		They're not moving in any direction, and they're equidistance apart.
		And my first impression was, is this is indeed what might be classified as a UFO.
		Sure.
		Because I was in my car and I was headed somewhere else, I did not have a chance to observe it very long.
		And then I kind of, you know, I didn't watch TV that night or anything.
		and then i heard on your show a few weeks ago your discussion with another gentleman i did not know that that the uh...
		Exactly.
		And I did not know that there had been coverage on TV or anything of that sort.
		And what I actually saw was just a stationary five lights.
		And they were equidistant, you know, when I'm saying the equidistance, I mean they were not moving.
		They were not like hovering helicopters that might tend to move sideways up and down or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor were they flares slowly descending.
unidentified		Absolutely not.
unidentified		And where I've seen in the sky moving airplanes, things of that sort, where they change position in a matter of seconds, this just appeared to be five stationary lights moving either upward, downward, ways not changing but the relative position and that was exactly my first thought was was that
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it bother you that the mayor of your city and the Air Force base adjacent to where you live don't seem to be interested?
unidentified		Well my feeling on the whole thing was astonishment because I really did not hear any hubbub about it the next day.
		My colleagues at work had not heard about it.
		And then I brought it to their attention after I heard your conversation with Mr. Davenport and no one at work had heard about this.
		And then all of a sudden, and I recently wrote my father a letter and I told him, I said, it really bugs me that I just did not drive directly towards those lights to find out what the hell they were.
		Because I was actually too far south of the lights.
		They were not immediately above me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do us all a favor and contact Frances Barwood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's in the Phoenix directory.
unidentified		I would be delighted to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She can use the support.
		It really, it does take a lot to come forward on something like this.
		Let me ask you this, Frances.
		If you had a chance to go back and keep your mouth shut now and not say anything, would you or would you do again the same thing?
unidentified		I'd do the same thing.
unidentified		One of the other things that I asked about that got me in a lot of trouble, too, was when I first discovered that they had those metallic strips and dollars money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And I mean, I was astounded.
		And a constituent asked me what they were there for.
		And I said, I honestly don't know.
		Well, some people said it was so, you know, they can be detected if you have money on you and things like that.
		And I thought, well, this is really strange.
		So I asked that question at policy session once.
		And, you know, boy, did I talk about jokes.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		I mean, they called me paranoid.
		And the spokesperson for the mayor said that, you know, I see conspiracies everywhere.
		And I wonder where the water went when it goes down the drain.
		And, you know, he can be really sarcastic.
		But, you know, I really feel that, you know, why don't people ask more questions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We used to.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We used to.
unidentified		Well, we've lost the art of conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope pun intended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcardline.
unidentified		I thought you catch you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Frances Barwood in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Glendale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glendale, all right.
unidentified		I just had a quick question.
		Well, several of them.
		Okay, I didn't happen to see the lights.
		My brother did.
		He lives up there off Cave Creek in Beardsley.
		But my question for the young lady there is, as far as the mayor Skip there went, where was he for the grand opening for that factory up there near her?
		And number two, I understand I've heard on radio lately that the police officers are starting to remove these license plate covers people are placing on their vehicles to, I don't know, help with the photo radar.
		And that's basically my two questions.
		I'll get off the air and listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I don't know about either one of those.
unidentified		Okay, well, it was the controversial zoning case that they're doing the recall about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they had their major grand opening, and we're talking major grand opening.
unidentified		And because it was so controversial, the mayor chose not to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not to go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean after he was the only fellow who actually knew about all this and he didn't go?
unidentified		Right.
		And so I did the grand opening welcome speech.
		And they said, aren't you afraid to, you know, be there?
		And I felt it would have been an insult not to go.
		So I really enjoyed myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good.
		What about this license plate business?
		Do you know anything about that?
unidentified		Very little.
		Some of our surrounding cities have a law of the, what do you call photo radar and they have a law or they say they have a law nobody's proved it yet but that you can't get these little covers to go over your license plate so that the photo radar cannot read your license plate right and so what's happening is some police officers are stopping people and confiscating the covers wow so it's it's been a little hostile out there a little hostile i i am totally opposed
		to photo radar by the way so all right west of the rockies you're on the air with councilwoman francis barwood hi hi where are you sir in cottonwood arizona all right and just monday night where i didn't see the ones in prescott because they were way west of me but monday night out on the porch you can see four well actually we can see three uh...
		above the horizon orangey yellowish globes balls uh...
		just kind of sitting there hovering and as we watched just two or three minutes later one came up from ground level of course there was trees out there so i can see it through the trees and i could see it coming up and uh...
		it came up and kind of joined the others and one of them floated off to the left a little ways and then came back and they all started moving away from us but we could we stood there and watched them for a good five ten minutes uh...
		it was really kind of neat there you are uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		francis let me tell you uh...
		what seems to be going on and uh...
		this is verified with a number of investigators move on people peter davenport at the ufo reporting center uh...
		in mexico francis i i don't know how much you're up on all of this i'm getting to be getting to be out of that in mexico city uh...
		these sightings of the exact same kind of thing we're talking about here are so common that the people have almost come to expect it and not be surprised uh...
		by what they're seeing literally that common and now in the southwest specifically in your area they're becoming almost that common as well and i wish i would see something yeah well well i always felt the same way until i finally did francis and when i did it uh...
		literally changed my life on the wild card line you're on the air with francis barwood hi hi how you doing all right turn radio off please okay john in phoenix hi john hey yeah we saw some crazy stuff we saw the same thing it was pretty crazy man well this is amazing we've already heard from more than five at least five people how many of you saw it it was me and for my friend we were we were
unidentified		having this cake party out of my friend rob's house he said look dude look up at the sky if you looked up there it's like one of the most it kind of looked at first like a formation of some planes so people have said yeah and it was just like oh man that's just a bunch of planes but but rob was saying right but dude making no sound it's like you know when
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you hear jets passing overhead we know what jets sound like yes yeah you can hear it and it's like there is absolutely no sound and it was bizarre but it's just like one of those things where you're always like no man it's can't can't be your you're sort of in denial about it yeah it's just like it what do you think it is reasonable that people ask questions about what's above your city yeah yeah yeah well I mean the thing the thing about it is is I just can't believe that that that the media and
unidentified		the air force and everybody is in total denial about it exactly it's always like they're always trying to cover something up and it's always in the same area and it's all it's always like someone's like hey you know nothing happened everything will be cool everybody be like
		they're trying to keep the public yeah don't ask questions relax everything will be all right that kind of thing east of the rockies you're on the air with Francis Barwood hello hello hi where are you New Orleans Louisiana hello Barwood hello Mr. Bell hi there hi I've been listening to your program and from what I gather from the information so far I've heard that the military says that this these sidings are nothing to be worried about that apparently there's
		that there's no trouble with these sightings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they say no national security threat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Basically, they say don't worry, be happy.
unidentified		Well, if that's the case, could this be a display of some military vehicle of our own design and not necessarily from another planet?
		Of course.
		Sure it could be.
		And if so, how would this affect the civilian population and its idea of freedoms or what have you in this country to have such firepower flying above our skies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Especially above our major cities.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a damn good question.
		And maybe that is the answer, Francis.
		But then the next question that is provoked is, if we do have something like that, and we may, then why in heaven's name fly it directly above a major population center?
		That makes zero sense to me.
unidentified		Well, that's the puzzling part, is that it obviously was trying to be extremely obvious because of the path it took.
		It never deviated away from heavy populated areas.
		Now, if I could, I'd like to read you just two sentences from the report that was given.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead.
unidentified		It says, the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, did not report any unusual activity, even though those two guys did.
		Since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate the source of light, such as those that were recorded,
		reported we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters fair enough but they didn't ask them to do it so I am going to you are going to ask the Air Force yes how are you going to do that Francis you are senator we we have a senator who's sort of interested in this and I'm going to call him and and ask you know if he Could ask the Air Force to investigate this.
		I was hoping that the city would initiate that as because, I mean, I'm just a council person.
		Sure.
		I don't have any particular power.
		You know, I'm just one of nine votes.
		I would have hoped that they would have said, well, we're asking the Air Force to check into this.
		But they didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not even that.
unidentified		Not even that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just, it's such a puzzle to me, Francis.
		Truly, it is.
		And again, I go back to this.
		If it's not a threat business, then what have we got the Air Force for?
		If something that large is hovering over a major population center and they don't even go to check it out, then what good are they?
unidentified		Well, and, you know, I wish they'd have a little more faith in human beings.
		You know, if it is something that they are doing and they tell us, hey, we're doing it, fine, that's it.
		If it's something from somewhere else and they say, you know, this is something from somewhere else, you know, people would be, some people would be a little upset.
		But, you know, eventually they find it out anyway.
		And so, you know, why hide things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Frances Barwood.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Phyllis calling from Bellingham, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Phyllis.
unidentified		Hi.
		I wanted to tell you, since you're talking about this light formation, that about 21 years ago, in August, I think it was 76, over Bellingham Bay, I saw nine tiny white lights in a V formation pointed toward Bellingham, which would be due southeast.
		And I went out on my balcony and looked at them, and they were silent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were disconnected, and they were about 1,1200 feet from where did anybody in the city of Bellingham raise any questions or ask for an investigation?
unidentified		Never heard a word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nearly a word, huh?
unidentified		No.
		And there was one more light.
		There was a bright odd.
		There was one clear down over Bellingham.
		They were there for about 20 minutes, and silently they all zoomed more or less sideways due south, and they were just gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go.
		Another similar report.
		Francis, you know, the phones are lit up here, and I could probably sit here and take calls from Phoenix and the area and the people who saw it from now until I go off there at 4 o'clock in the morning.
		But I think it is sufficient to already say, obviously, a lot more than five people saw it.
		Zillions of people saw it.
unidentified		And if I could ask the people that wanted to call in if they could call my office, it would be real helpful.
		And they're keeping track for me.
		And I've taken a lot of calls at home, 37 last Saturday, to be exact.
		But this way, it's documented in my office, and that would be very helpful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So people who saw this or people who want to at least support the effort to have somebody look into it, which is what I presume you're moving toward now with your request to the Air Force, can support you by calling that number or barring that, calling you at home because you're listed in the directory.
		That's true.
unidentified		And I'll try to get back to everybody.
unidentified		It may take me a little while, but I do eventually get back to everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a courageous lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wish you well, and listen, Frances, the minute you need some help, you call me up and I'll get you on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care, Frances.
		That's Councilwoman Frances Barwood from Phoenix, where one of the most incredible displays of light or a craft, depending on how you want to look at it, manifested itself over a major population area, Phoenix in March.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I want to repeat the contact information for Frances Barwood.
		She is a councilwoman for the city of Phoenix who dared to open her mouth, to just suggest that somebody really ought to investigate whatever this massive thing hanging over a valley with two million people, two million people, was.
		And she's catching hell for it.
		From the cartoonists and the newspaper people to the mayor to other council people, though she said not too much with that regard, other council people.
		And you know how that goes.
		So if you are one of the ones in Phoenix who saw these lights, if you are somebody in Phoenix who would like to support her with regard to at least a request for an investigation of what the hell this was, she says she's going to the Air Force now through an Arizona senator, then contact Francis Barwood.
		All right, in a moment, on to other things, and we'll just have open lines For the remainder of the night.
		Tomorrow night, Terrence McKenna, a person many of you have been requesting, is going to be on the show.
		He'll be coming to us from the big island of Hawaii.
		The End you All right, a quick look at what's going on.
		In Denver, prosecutors wrapped up their case against Timothy McVeigh, and it looks to me to be a very impressive case indeed.
		On Wednesday afternoon, the prosecution presented a total of 137 witnesses in 18 days in the Oklahoma bombing trial.
		Now, this is a case built on circumstantial evidence, but you can build a case in that manner, and it does appear to be overwhelming circumstantial evidence.
		The defense, of course, is going to go to work very hard, or as hard as they can on that, in suggesting, arguing it is only circumstantial evidence.
		And here we are talking about the death penalty, and without fingerprints, without really hard evidence, you are about to dispense a man's life.
		And I wonder how that jury is going to struggle with that question, don't you?
		President Clinton criticized the fashion industry Wednesday, fashion industry, get this, for allegedly projecting a positive image of heroin use.
		At a White House conference on drug abuse, President said that those who make and market clothes should not try to glamorize addiction.
		The President said heroin is fast becoming the drug of choice, and part of this, he said, has to do with the images that are finding their way to our young people.
		Some call it the heroin chick approach to marketing, in which models strike poses that make them appear stylishly strung out on drugs.
		You know, I've got to wonder about that a little bit.
		How, in God's name, is a person stylishly strung out on drugs?
		I don't see that.
		When I see models on the runway, and you know, CNN does a lot of fashion shows, and yes, the women seem emaciated to me.
		But I do not translate in my mind that emaciated model look, and you know what I'm talking about, to heroin use.
		Do you?
		U.S. lawmakers are pressuring the Air Force to grant the first woman B-52 bomber pilot an honorable discharge rather than court-martial her on charges, including adultery.
		Several congresswomen at the Washington News Conference called on the Air Force to drop the charges against Flynn.
		Air Force is weighing Lieutenant Kelly Flynn's demand that she receive an honorable discharge upon her resignation.
		Air Force has delayed Flynn's court-martial, while Air Force Secretary Sheila Windahl considers the resignation request.
		Now, yesterday morning I made at the end of the program an error, and not a lot of you would have heard it, but I will repeat it.
		I said when I was in the Air Force, and I was an airman in the Air Force, there were very strict laws regarding fraternization.
		In other words, somebody of enlisted rank was not to be dating or betting somebody of officer rank.
		And toward the end of the show, a man from Idaho, Bob, called and said, hey, Art, what were your parents?
		He said, were they both commissioned?
		And I responded, there were just a few seconds left.
		I said, yes.
		And then I immediately thought, oh, my God, no, they weren't.
		Now, my parents were indeed separated by that barrier.
		Now, I'm not sure in 1944 or 45 if the same non-fraternization rules existed.
		But I realized I made a mistake.
		My mother was a drill instructor at Camp Lejeune, which is where I was born in North Carolina.
		And my dad was an officer, both of them in the Marine Corps.
		So it occurred to me that in my formation, there must have been some fraternization.
		Or prior to my formulation, there must have been some fraternization.
		And so I was entirely wrong about that.
		What I don't know, though, is what the UCMJ suggested with regard to fraternization at that time.
		So, you know, I've got to ask my mom about that.
		If I'd had time today, I would have called.
		With regard to the Telly Flynn case, the Lieutenant Flynn case, I originally thought that, frankly, that Lieutenant Flynn deserved better treatment.
		And I know this is true.
		Look, I know it's true.
		16 Minutes even did a little segment on it, and they asked the right question, and that was, come on.
		You know damn well a lot of B-52 pilots have been messing about with married women, have been called on it, and that the whole thing has been swept under the good old boys network kind of deal, right?
		Sure, that's true.
		I believe it.
		I know it.
		And when that was the only story, and Lieutenant Flynn was saying she had been lied to, she had been lied to, and that this man had told her that he was separated.
		At that point, I thought that she should then be treated, and they were making a big case out of this, and just persecuting a woman in a way they would never persecute a man, or rarely, unless there was something else going on.
		However, now her ex-lover, I presume ex, has been talking, and as has his wife, or is it ex-wife?
		I really don't know, but both of them have been saying, in essence, that Lieutenant Flynn lied and that she came over to their house and had dinner and all that kind of thing.
		So now, if Lieutenant Flynn told a series of lies with regard to this, then you've got a different situation.
		And if that really is the case, then perhaps a court-martial should proceed.
		So I have mixed feelings as I find out more about this case.
	And I wanted to tell you that even with regard to my own parents, I've got to sit down and think about it because I don't know.
	I ought to call my mom, really, and ask her what the UCMJ said at that time about fraternization.
	Am I, in fact, the product of fraternization?
	I probably am.
	I mean, surely I am.
	The only question is what the UCMJ said about it at that time.
	Here's a facts on the subject.
	Dear Art and the rest of the intelligent portion of the American population.
	Doesn't it worry anyone, even a little bit, that First Lieutenant Kelly Flynn, a single woman, is charged with adultery instead of alienation of affection, while the married man involved in the same sordid affair is looked upon as completely innocent?
	Hasn't anyone figured out something is wrong with this little slice of juicy news?
	Worse yet, this selfsame innocent married man and his wife strongly oppose giving Lieutenant Flynn an honorable discharge.
	Are people involved in this kind of thing considered innocent merely by virtue of expressing outrage and indignity?
	Who's screwing who here?
	Why isn't this guy's wife upset at him?
	Lieutenant Flynn isn't married, but all eyes have been diverted from anyone else.
	Why?
	Rich in Texarkana, Texas.
	And I do agree, Rich, the way this story has developed smacks of what the press has been doing lately.
	And I'm saddened by it.
	Whether it's our friend Mr. Rosenthal back in the Washington AP Bureau or any other major reporter, it seems to me that once the press gloms onto a story, Woman, B-52 Pilot, Adultery, then woe is anybody who gets in the way of this angle of the story that the press wants to tell.
	And I'm tiring of it.
	I really am tiring of it.
	I know that we live in a supposed free society, but if our supposed responsible press is unwilling to report the facts, and they're going to stick to their story the way they want to tell it no matter what,
	then the meaning of free press becomes diluted, severely diluted, to the point where news and editorial comment are mixed to a no longer discernible point.
	Are you all following me now?
	I've had two recent examples of that on my own, and I really see that same sort of thing going on here and now.
	It's kind of a sad thing, isn't it?
	And here's this.
	While I must agree, your subject of the Phoenix UFO sightings certainly makes interesting conversation for your audience.
	Isn't this just doing a verbal dance around the real concerns lurking in the shadows of this issue?
	The questions and concerns emerging seem to mask a rapidly spreading fear that our great American government can no longer be trusted about anything.
	In view of this obvious situation, our questions and concerns amount to little more than whimpering in the scary dark.
	Perhaps it would be far more American, nay, far more human, to simply take charge of our government and demand en masse an explanation, tax revolt, whatever it takes, before we all collapse in confused cowardice.
	That is from Lahaina in Maui, Hawaii.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Patrick in Boise, Idaho, listening on KIDO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Patrick.
unidentified		All right, I had two things.
		First one's really quick.
		I just want to vouch for you.
		I've listened to the show for quite a while now, and you do always answer your own phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		Even on nights when you're screening calls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I screen when I have a guest so that I know it's relevant, but when it's open lines, I don't even screen.
unidentified		Yeah, I know that.
		And second of all, about the first two hours last night.
		I'm an avid horror and science fiction film buff, and just this is another thing that leads me to believe that we're just one step closer to Tuesday being Soil and Green Day, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That was a hard program.
		That was a hard program.
		It was a hard program to even decide to do.
		And I just hope a lot of people ordered it and passed it around.
		Something's got to be done about that.
unidentified		Yeah, and just out of curiosity, you're familiar with that, right?
unidentified		Soil and green?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
unidentified		And do you think the way things are going currently that we would ever reach that point, do you think it's possible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If food production on Earth, because of climactic change or ozone UV radiation increase or whatever other reason one can imagine, would suddenly be reduced, I think a lot of horrible things would happen that are better not contemplated.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
unidentified		I always consider that probably the most horrifying film I've ever seen because it's so possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of things are possible, and I used to think that I guess I used to be very naive, and I'm over that pretty much.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		All right, thanks a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		and as a ex-vet myself, um...
		I don't understand how people can take the view that it's because she's a lieutenant colonel and a pilot that, and a female, that's what they're going for.
		A first lieutenant.
		She is, she being a...
		Okay.
		Her being an officer, she took an oath to obey the orders above her and to obey the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		And she broke that oath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		That is the point.
		It's not the adultery.
		It's not anything else.
		She took an oath and she broke it.
		And that should be the bottom line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but bottom lines are rarely black and or white.
		And, you know, here's a truth for you to think about, okay?
		A lot of male B-52 pilots, F-16 pilots, F-14 pilots, F-15 pilots, they've been out.
		Look, these are jocks, you know.
		They're very special people.
		And a lot of them will bed down anything that moves and wears a skirt.
		And there have been a lot of, I'm telling you the truth here, whether you want to hear it or not, there have been a lot of instances in which they've been called on screwing around because they're hot dogs.
		That's just what they are.
		In the air and on the ground.
		And frankly, a lot of it has been allowed to slide.
		So, you know, if that's all that was going on, then I don't think she's getting equal treatment.
unidentified		She's not getting equal treatment if that's been going on, but the command knew about what was going on and gave her an order to cease and assist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She broke that order.
		That is correct.
		And did you see the 60-minutes segment on that?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the guy was living in her house.
unidentified		True.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And so all she wanted to do, and in breaking that order, she had to figure out a way to go back and say, it's over.
		You got to move out.
		And that's all she did.
		As far as I know.
unidentified		The only thing I see is if this was a lower-ranking individual, an enlisted man, who was just an airman or was another posting, I don't think it would have gotten the news media that it did because she is a female pilot.
unidentified		And I think there's a problem with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you, and that is not equal treatment.
		Thank you.
		On the other side of the coin, if she repeatedly lied to the investigators, then you've got something else.
		So I have very mixed emotions about this.
		In fact, I'll tell you my own story about it.
		I suppose I will.
		I've got no reason not to.
		When I lived in Japan, I lived in Japan for a decade.
		Part of that time actually on Okinawa was then not Japan.
		I lived off base with a Japanese girl.
		And I was brought before my captain and told that I had to stop doing that.
		I had to stop cohabitating, which is what they called it then.
		And I did not stop.
		And I must tell you that this practice, though it was not a military member, obviously, it was a Japanese national, Kanoma National at the time, this is, I mean, it's so common in the military service as to be hardly worth discussing.
		And it's generally handled among men.
		And I am a little bit suspicious that Lieutenant Flynn is a different case because she is a woman.
		And yet I temper that with the late news I have that she lied.
		If she specifically lied to investigators, then maybe a court-martial is appropriate.
		I just don't know.
		It's a tough case.
		It's really a tough case.
		And I think just about everybody out there is kind of suspicious that it involves a woman.
		So anyway, there you are.
		I wonder what you think.
		I'm sure you've got a view.
		Everybody seems to be talking about it.
		What do you think the Air Force is going to do?
		Proceed with court-martial?
		Or simply allow her to leave quietly with an honorable discharge?
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May
		21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Preview Radio Networks presents Part Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm flying around here like crazy this morning.
		Art Francis, referring to the councilwoman in Arizona, Francis is asking the Air Force the wrong question.
		She should ask the Air Force to, quote, release the results of their investigation, end quote.
		You can bet the occurrences over Arizona did not go unnoticed by them.
		That's Bill in Fairfield, California.
		And Bill, you know what?
		I agree with you.
		If the Air Force did not investigate this, a major, major, major item, craft, whatever it is, in the skies over Phoenix, then it seems to me they're derelict in their duty.
		If they are not there to protect our skies and the sovereignty of our airspace, then what are they good for?
		And I say that as an ex-member of the Air Force.
unidentified		So, yeah, you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe she should submit a freedom of information request regarding the incident at Phoenix.
		Maybe that's another way to go.
		I'm getting really sick of all of this.
		I mean, a little straight talk would sure be nice regarding all of this, wouldn't it?
		Anyway, we'll get back to your phone calls in just a moment.
		From Terry in Milpitas, California, some straight thinking, I guess.
		Two possible scenarios aren't with regard to Phoenix.
		One, these craft belong to a foreign government.
		They are not ours.
		We are powerless against them.
		Every now and then, they fly around just to tweak the noses of government officials here who are forced into a frenzy of denial.
		This just might explain a few crazy things that government people are doing these days, but would not explain much about local officials.
		Or, two, the craft really are extraterrestrial, and all those officials who are nonchalant about it are all themselves aliens or humans who have been cloned or otherwise co-opted by the aliens.
		Well, I would go for number one, except that I wouldn't imagine it to be a foreign government.
		I would imagine it to be my own.
		The puzzle for me is why our own government would choose to fly something in its secret arsenal over a major metropolitan area, two million people.
		And that's a lot of people to look up and see something of this magnitude.
		I mean, that's a lot of people.
		All right, listen, tomorrow night, Terrence McKenna is going to be here, and a lot of people have been waiting for Terrence.
		We're going to be talking about time, the nature of time, and a lot of very interesting things.
		And then Friday night, Saturday morning, we are going to interview Victor and follow it with an interview with Sean David Morton.
		And Sean has been instrumental in seeing to it that we got a world-exclusive photograph on the website right now, the second photograph of the alleged interrogation at Area 51 of an alien being.
		In this photograph, you will see, though his face has been erased, presumably to protect the innocent, a doctor probing the mouth of this alien.
		It's a bizarre picture.
		It cannot be seen anywhere else right now.
		It's on my website.
		Take a look before you hear this interview with Victor.
		Victor is the guy who took the video.
		Victor is going to be using a voice changer to protect his own identity, and he'll be here at midnight Pacific time.
unidentified		So be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in the meantime, take a look at that photograph.
		You'll find it at www.artbell.com.
		www.artbell.com.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I would like to relay a brief story and lighten up the conversation about the female pilot in the B-52.
unidentified		You know, that jet airplane broke formation with them bombs on it and crashed into the Colorado mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Right before Timothy McVeigh went on trial.
unidentified		But what if they had bombed the courthouse there in Denver?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what if they had?
		I mean, you said you were going to lighten all this up bomb.
		Where's the light part?
unidentified		Okay, let me tell you the light part real quick.
		My husband, at the age of 17, a senior in high school in 1939, prior to World War II, he joined the Texas National Guard.
		And right after he went into the guard, the stables sergeant sent word out to the grounds for any young men that wanted to sign up to become a pilot.
		And my husband was tickled to death.
		He thought he was going to get to be trained to be a pilot and fly an airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But when he got down to the stables, they handed him all a pitchfork and told him to separate the manure from the hay.
		Pile the manure here, pile the hay there.
		And that's how my husband became a pilot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A pilot?
		A pilot.
		Was there a specific career field?
unidentified		Well, see, prior to World War II, my husband in high school was in the ROTC program.
unidentified		Well, nationwide, everybody in the ROTC, the young men, were encouraged, you know, to take it serious, get their training, and go into the military, you know, and fight, you know, help our country win the war that was coming on that was prior to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		That is a little lighter.
		And frequently in the U.S. military, when you volunteer, which is why people in the military are roundly told not to volunteer for things, they find themselves enshrouded in something they did not expect nor do not want.
		That's fairly common in the military as well.
		You've got to be a very special kind of person to be in the military in the first place.
		It's not for everybody.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
unidentified		Yeah, my name's Scott, and I'm over here in Leville, Wyoming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I was in the Air Force for six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I was at SAC Base, B-52 Base, Freeport.
unidentified		And, man, you know, you really had to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I mean, they travel around in packs everywhere they go.
		You know, they're wearing little last cuts and everything.
		Is it true that she was offered an Article 15?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not aware of that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not aware of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a lesser disciplinary measure in which right could be taken.
unidentified		Yeah, if anybody else has heard of that, you know, it's just been bugging me to death.
		I couldn't sleep tonight.
		I was in the Air Force, and when I came back from overseas, I made a reference to a new female that had just come in the Air Force, and I said the word babe.
		I said, hey, babe, shut the trunk.
		You know, she was walking off to the post because she had shut the trunk and I couldn't drive the car off.
		Well, just that little escapade there cost me $150, suspended bust.
		It took my weapon away from me for six months and took my driver's license away from me.
		And I didn't get all that reinstated until a month before I got out of service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, let me tell you something.
		I have serious questions about women in the military, period.
		And I have asked these questions before.
		And I get a lot of argument about it.
		and i know they now comprise a significant percentage of our military and are very necessary to what we do uh...
		but in combat uh...
		situations i don't know that i'm It's currently making the pay-per-view rounds.
		And I'm sitting here trying to think of the name of it right now.
		It's a very good movie.
		It'll occur to me shortly.
		About the Gulf War and about a captain who flew a helicopter.
		And actually, it portrayed her.
		Well, I don't want to tell you the plot of the movie.
		But it's worth seeing in view of what is going on right now.
		I highly recommend it, and I will go and get the name of the movie or somebody will fax it to me.
		A very, very good movie, by the way.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, that would be Courage Under Fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, thank you, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just saw it about a week and a half ago, and my God, that was a good movie.
unidentified		Yeah, it's kind of timely.
		You don't hear much about women pilots.
		Right.
		Just on the subject of the emaciated models, I don't mean to nitpick, I apologize, but it's heroin chic, not chic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank you.
		I always screw that up.
		Heroin chic.
		All right.
		Well, it's not, though, in my eyes.
		In other words, before heroin became chic, models still looked the same way to me.
		They always looked emaciated to me.
unidentified		True, but it's really unfortunate that they would actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, when you think about it, heroin chic kind of works.
unidentified		That's what they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, models have always sought to reduce themselves.
unidentified		By any means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By any means, frequently tossing their cookies or whatever else it takes.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Heroin chicks.
unidentified		And they're also on the cutting edge, so whether it's a good fat or a bad, they tend to be on the forefront of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I don't think it has all that much to do with heroin.
unidentified		Oh, no, no.
unidentified		It doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has to do with looking thin for the camera.
unidentified		Right, right.
		I'm just saying that there are casualties of war, so to speak, being in New York and in the fat lane.
		That's all I meant.
		But about Phoenix, I just wanted to say that that really is pretty amazing to have such a large amount of people see something like that, and you don't hear it in the main news media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, or even, look, I mean, here we've got one of nine council people.
		Phoenix is a big city.
		Being on the city council is a non-trivial matter.
		There are only nine people below the mayor.
		And she's saying, excuse me, but couldn't we have an investigation?
		And they're laughing at her, chuckling at her, writing cartoons about her, and slamming her around.
		Why?
unidentified		How much more credibility can you get?
unidentified		You would think that it was like Lyndon LaRouche or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
unidentified		Well, nice talking to you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, sir.
unidentified		Thanks, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Heroin chicks.
		Yeah, heroin chicks.
		I've always screwed that up, but actually, in this case, it works, doesn't it?
		And I just don't make the connection the president is making.
		I have always looked at models coming down the ramp and said to myself, what's the matter with these people?
		Why don't they put a little bit of meat on their bones?
		And this was years before heroin became chic.
		And I'm not even sure it is now.
		Since when did it become so?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Art there, it's been a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		I'm all right.
		Francis and I clashed last year over the museum issue.
		Hi, Francis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's not on, sir.
unidentified		Oh, she's gone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, she's gone, right.
unidentified		Okay, well, listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's you and I clash, because I happen to agree with Francis.
		In other words, here you had a piece of art, and I'll put that in quotes, that came and was done at taxpayer expense and stood in a public building.
		Now, every year at Christmas, when we've got some sort of display in front of a public building, the ACLU or somebody else comes along and files endless bitches until it is removed from public property.
		Okay, so if you can do that based on the fact that it's public property, not private, then why does the same argument not apply to the flag?
unidentified		I don't necessarily agree with either argument.
		I just don't believe in censorship.
		Well, I do think this.
		If you're going to wipe out that one exhibit which offends because it's taxpayer funding, then you'll have to close down the entire exhibit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you don't support people who want Tivity scenes removed from public property at Christmas.
unidentified		Isn't there something better they can concentrate on?
unidentified		Aren't there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, but you really do, don't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you really do have a kind of a conflict here, don't you?
unidentified		No, I don't think so.
unidentified		Do you want me to explain myself better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Clearer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		okay i agree with her in so far as she's saying it's taxpayer funded and therefore if it offends of a great majority of the taxpayers and it should not appear You've got the NEA, and they fund a lot of stuff that people object to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I can live with that.
		But wait now.
		It's in a public building.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's a different piece of territory in my mind.
unidentified		It's the Museum of Fine Arts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Public building.
unidentified		It's the only one we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but taxpayer-supported public building.
unidentified		Okay, well, then they should take the entire exhibit out.
		Not just that one which seems to offend Francis, but maybe all of them, because maybe all of them would offend some people.
		Let's not have any exhibits in there.
		Let's just have an empty room.
		And that'll be the exhibit.
		Nihilism in the 90s, empty room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, so then I take you back then to Christmas.
		A cross on a mountain, a nativity scene on public property.
		And I know that to remain consistent, you're probably going to tell me that it ought to be allowed on public property, but I'll bet you you've been one of the ones arguing it ought to be removed if you're absolutely honest.
unidentified		No, I'd be honest with you, Art.
		You know, sometimes I just look at things like that and I say, you know, it's kind of pretty.
		I don't have to necessarily read into it as a religious symbol.
		it's just a series of lights.
		And speaking of a series of lights...
		I've got to get in on that before I leave you, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		Because I am from NASA, and I didn't see the actual happening, but I saw the video on my news station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it was shot with a zoom lens.
		The camera was pretty far away.
		It still looked enormous.
		So I can imagine whose eyes it went over, it must have been absolutely spine-tingling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I heard from person after person as I knew I would.
		Now, as much as you may disagree with Francis with regard to the flag display, how do you feel about her basic ridicule for simply requesting an investigation so we can know what that was that hung over the city?
		How do you feel about that?
unidentified		It's kind of interesting, isn't it, Art?
		This is why I love your show.
		In this case, she is rather anti-censorship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Because people are trying to censor her.
		I watch the live council meetings here in Phoenix.
		It's like a not-so-well-directed episode of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
		And these people are brain dead.
		It's just, it's really frustrating.
		It's laughable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've seen Frances, I take it, then live on TV.
unidentified		And the numerous other people.
		And at least this woman has a sense of humor.
		And at least she doesn't nod off at the meetings and have to be kicked under the table.
		It's really incredible, Art.
		I mean, I love this area and everything.
		But, hey, you know, I saw a show, and this would interest you as well, the other night about the space shuttle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And they showed actual footage along with simulated footage.
unidentified		And I was not aware that we have built a machine that can leave the Earth's atmosphere, and I had no idea that upon re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, that is not unlike going a trip through hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		It's just unbelievable.
		And we have invented this craft.
		It goes 20,000 miles an hour through hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it gets there.
unidentified		It gets through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it lands back on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		If we can build something like that, why couldn't we build a thing a mile long with six lights?
		I don't see the big hoopla.
		It's hard to believe that it's an alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hoopla comes because the Air Force says we don't investigate those sorts of things.
unidentified		Of course, wouldn't you say?
unidentified		With the exception of very few people in government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, I would say that if the Air Force is not concerned about security over our major population centers, then somebody needs to sit down and write them a new job description.
unidentified		Here's a weird take on it for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like, should we be watching Russian submarines off our coast?
		If the Navy doesn't want to do that, then they too should have a new job description.
		Look, I've got to break away.
unidentified		I love you, baby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Take care.
		All right.
		That'll be a $100 fine.
		I love you, baby.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-tour presentation of Post to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		I don't feel asking what's going on.
		I don't you ask him alright,
		It's coming home We gotta get right back Till we start and go on Love is good Love will be strong We'll be right back.
		I wanna take your baby Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, I really like this song.
		I really like this song.
		But I guess you can tell, huh?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Lone Wolf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Morning.
		This is Kathy and Boise.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		I missed your show last night, the first couple hours.
		I have a question and a couple comments.
		Can you tell me who your guest was and where does she come from?
		Where does she get her information?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, she's in eastern Canada.
		And she acquired her own information through investigation.
		And I take it you know generally what the subject was.
unidentified		I caught an article a few days ago in a weekly paper here about cannibalism.
unidentified		And so I thought maybe that's what you basically were talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was called, her book is called Food Pets Die For.
unidentified		Rendering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rendering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And basically, it suggests that pets are used as pet food.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't suggest it.
		It charges it, and I think proves it.
		And so that's what it was about.
unidentified		You know, I don't have a pet, but if I did, I'd do the same thing I did with my son.
unidentified		I'd make my own baby food for that pet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, would you?
unidentified		Because I don't, yeah, you don't trust, you know, there's very little to trust in these days.
		Anyway, enough of that.
		I have a request.
		I know you're going to call the aliens soon.
		Do you think maybe you can open up your alien talk line before and see what the aliens want to hear?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been a while, hasn't it?
unidentified		It is.
		It's a lot of fun.
		I love your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Gary Usher.
		We're going to do that again soon, too.
		I do that every now and then.
		I open up lines.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		That reminds me.
		You know what?
		Somebody sent me a fax a little while ago and said that Sacramento Television ran a piece about me.
		Now, indeed, two very nice gentlemen from Sacramento Television were here about a week ago and were in studio and they interviewed me.
		They took a lot of video of me doing the program and they interviewed my wife.
		And I have no idea, no idea what my wife said.
		And I got a fax earlier tonight saying, you know, I saw you and your wife on Sacramento TV TonightArt and really enjoyed it.
		But I had no warning the piece was going to run when it did, and I don't know what it was.
		So would you please for a moment cooperate with me and try and let me get a call from Sacramento on one of two lines.
		I want to talk to somebody who saw the piece and can tell me about it.
		Would anybody in Sacramento be willing to do that?
		Let me open two separate lines.
		No, make it three for Sacramento.
		And everybody else hold off for a minute.
		I would like to know exactly what they had on the air.
		I would really like to know.
		You know, it's funny.
		You do these things, and then you hear they run, and you don't know what they did.
		Would everybody else hold off for just a couple of minutes till I get a call from Sacramento and somebody can tell me exactly what it is they ran if you happen to catch it in Sacramento?
		Again, toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		West of the Rockies.
		Oops, you would have been on the air.
		I see you dumped out when you realized you weren't in Sacramento.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		The only thing I know about this Sacramento thing is my sister took a teddy bear.
		She threw the thing at me, hit me in the head, and said, you listen to this guy.
		And I said, yes, I've been telling you about him for over a year.
		And that's what she did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's wrong with that?
unidentified		So I'm interested to know what ran myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then that makes at least two of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, the TV crew was here for some period of time.
unidentified		But what did you say to make my sister throw off a teddy bear?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, just the usual stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People throw stuff at me all the time, sir.
unidentified		But I listen to you, and I'm honored to listen to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I want to say that you should not be on television spreading your horrible corruption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, look, first of all, I know who you are, and you know that I know who you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Well, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even you, even you, have got to turn off your radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are the rules.
unidentified		Well, quit boxing me around and let me get my word in edgewise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me hear what you can do edgewise.
unidentified		Well, first of all, I just want to say this whole thing about pet foods, it's so what?
		I mean, it's just meat, and if you're going to throw it in there in the stew, they're just dumb animals anyway, and especially those evil, filthy cats.
		They would be cannibalizing humans if they could get their tiger paws on this.
		If you ever see what happens in the wild, especially with that berserker tiger that killed that trainer in front of all those people, you know that they're filthy, vicious, devil animals, and you, you, they're perfect for you and your show, but as far as I'm concerned, they could melt them all down, and I don't really care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say evil, filthy cats?
unidentified		That's true.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the most disgusting thing I've heard from you yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this really tops it all.
unidentified		Well, of course, they're your familiars.
unidentified		They're used in witchcraft, and what they do is they go out and they entrench people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so now you're saying that cats are evil, is that right?
unidentified		Well, inherently, that's correct.
		No!
		All right, now listen.
		And another thing is about this adultery, that horrible hussy slut going around defaming our military should not get out of this, she should not be able to wiggle out of this her little ways.
		You know, she should be tried the way a man is tried and punished like a man.
		If she wants to play like a man, if she can't take it, then she should be, you know, it's another sign of how they're infiltrating and demoralizing our military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you say about a man who gets away with it?
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, what do you say about a man who gets away with it?
unidentified		Gets away with what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gets away with adultery in the good old boys' club.
unidentified		This is how the whole New Orleans Order, what this is all about, is breaking down our military with immoral, evil people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least you're consistent there.
unidentified		Well, she...
		she...
		Well, I don't like them.
		They're filthy animals.
		You know what?
		Whenever they come around my yard, I shoot my air gun at them, and I've hit a couple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You shoot cats?
unidentified		They go squalling out of there a million miles an hour.
unidentified		It's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Praise the Lord and pass the pellets, huh?
unidentified		Well, when they're the devil's animals, it's okay to eviscerate and destroy them.
		The devil's animals.
		And you and your guests have just been more subversive.
		And you're getting crazier than I've even thought that you could be.
		You really do love me, don't you?
		Well, as far as all your ideals of diseases being made up by the government and roost upon the population, that's such idiotic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You embrace every word I say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You hang on every phrase, don't you?
unidentified		Take away our guns so they can send us in just like it happened in Chinaman's Square, and they can roll over us with the tanks and just destroy us, and you're just helping facilitate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who shoots cats with a pellet gun ought to have the gun taken away.
unidentified		No.
		You see, you're the one who's behind the defamation of our politicians by saying that they're corrupt and crooked and evil.
		How can you say that about them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		Our government is a beautiful thing, and people like you and Tim McVay who want to tear down our government should just, should just, you should not be on the airway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you're putting me in the same class as Timothy McVay.
		JC, I'm curious.
		If I were to tell you to walk off a pier, would you do it?
unidentified		I would not, because I do not take commands from Satan.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Walk off a pier, JC.
unidentified		I don't think so.
		Go on, take a long walk off a pier.
		Very short pier, Jay-C.
		Your worship of Satan is so apparent here using this voice.
		I love you, JC.
		Satan, and that, that, that, that, that, head-on.
		As far as I'm concerned, the city council woman should not be working in the UFO.
		She should be trying to balance the budget instead of playing around with spaceships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're cool.
unidentified		You know what?
		You've seen too much Star Trek.
		You've seen way too much Star Trek, and you're probably smoking Reaper, and you're out of your mind with all this craziness, and you're just really going over the edge.
		Over the edge.
		You just can't seem to contain yourself anymore.
		I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm uncontained, Jay-C.
unidentified		I just want to know why you won't talk straight conversation with me.
		Because you don't do it.
		Yes, I do.
		I'm bringing forth the new revelation from the Lord is anointed onto my forehead, through my voice, into the airways.
		I'm trying to save a nation, and you're just trying to tear it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jayce, that's it for tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was lovely hearing from you once again.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's J.C. Oh, now there's a revelation.
		Speaking of revelations, he shoots cats with pellet guns.
		Praise the Lord and pass the pellets.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Don in Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Don.
unidentified		Enjoyed hearing you on the air Tuesday night with John Ziegler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was fun.
unidentified		Well, John's a pretty good guy, but he gets a little carried away sometimes with some of his shows.
unidentified		I was the one that called in and mentioned that article that appeared in the Nashville paper Sunday about talk radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, I really, really wanted to get a copy of that.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what I'll do, Art.
		I'll get a copy.
		Matter of fact, this entire section, and I'll wrap it up and send it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, bless your heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell everybody basically what this appeared in your Nashville paper, huh?
unidentified		Right.
		In other words, in one of the sections.
		The title is Talk Radio Tuning Out.
		And it says Razor Wire Political Genre Seems to Be Losing Its Edge.
		And actually, Art, this was written by a Ronald D. Elving, and this came from Congressional Quarterly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		So basically, the gest of the article is that it says that most politically oriented talk radio seems to be losing some of its following.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Audience share.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And I wondered if you appreciated the reference to you in the article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly did they say?
unidentified		Okay, well, I'll go down to one of the paragraphs.
		It says, such microphone titans as Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, and Larry King continue to flourish.
		But the buzz these days is more likely to be about Dr. Laura's advice on sexual responsibility or Art Bell, a lone wolf, broadcasting from the desert outside Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very nice, and it's very correct.
		It's the buzz inside of talk radio right now as well.
		There's a magazine inside the business called Talkers.
		And I got my new issue of it, I think, day before yesterday.
		And plastered right across the front is Talk Radio and Politics.
		What future do they have together?
		And everybody inside Talk Radio is all of a sudden talking about it.
		I've known about this for a couple of years now.
unidentified		Well, this is something I've heard you mention numerous times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A million times.
		Right.
		A million times.
		And the answer is, politics is part of life, but it's only part of life.
		It's not all of life.
		And when you look at talk radio, pretty much it's treated as though it's the only thing there is in life, you know, by most of the talk show hosts.
		And I simply figured out that was no longer true a couple of years ago and stopped doing it.
		If talk radio is going to be really interesting for the people to listen to, it's got to be some sort of reflection of real life.
		And frankly, right now, what they're doing in Washington, D.C. is hardly even relevant to everyday life.
		Hardly even relevant to everyday life.
		So to sit here and concoct a discussion about a budget that ain't real, politicians that are crooked, and I don't use that term lightly, crooked, politicians who have been fined and the manner in which they will pay that fine, or any other myriad of things that they talk about, simply not relevant.
		And if talk radio persists in, I was actually invited to be the keynote speaker at a convention.
		You know, I don't do that kind of thing, so I turned it down, politely turned it down, a big talk radio convention.
		But had I gone, I'd have been in terrible trouble because I would have lectured them on this subject.
		Literally lectured them.
		They're making a mistake.
		And for all those who want to take shots at me for doing something a little different, find who cares.
		Take your shots.
		Be my guest.
		I've got a good thick skin.
		It's had a chance to develop over many, many years.
		I don't care.
		And people take shots at me every single day.
		But given an opportunity to lecture people in my own field, or to talk to people in my own field, I would have explained this to them, and I know they would not have wanted to hear it.
		So I thought about it and thought better of it and decided not to.
		It's just, I mean, think yourself, folks.
		Other than a few really devoted political junkies, how many hours every day do you spend talking about politics with your wife, your children, the people you work with, whatever?
		How many hours?
		Oh, I bet you can count it in minutes, or maybe not at all.
		So, there's lots of other things in life that are interesting.
		And whatever they are, we do them when they come up.
		Spontaneously.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Wait till I turn my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		This is Maria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Maria.
unidentified		In Sarasota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sarasota, Florida.
unidentified		That's the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's down near my dad, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Is he still in the Cortez area?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He certainly is.
unidentified		You should come visit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Oh, wait.
		He keeps telling me the same thing.
unidentified		We have the cultural center of the southeast in this area.
		And I'm not kidding.
		Anyway, I had two things I wanted to tell you.
		I know where most of my little ones are buried.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most of your little ones?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I had mostly cocker spaniels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, those kind of little ones.
unidentified		Yes.
		I had the most beautiful one in the whole world.
		She was red and white, and she was gorgeous.
		She had 20 champions in her pedigree.
		But she's buried in St. Petersburg in the happy hunting grounds.
		And they have, people should know that they do have lovely pet cemeteries around.
		And you can put them there, and then you wouldn't have to worry about the rendering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly right.
		And you can be sure of one thing.
		The next time something happens to one of my pets, I am not going to leave it with a bet.
unidentified		Definitely.
		And the other thing I wanted to tell you, I belong to the Unity Church, and it's down in Venice.
		But we have been adopted by a kitten.
		He's adopted our church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear JC there a minute ago?
		Mr. I represented.
		Oh, God, Mr. I represent God.
unidentified		I couldn't stand him.
		Oh.
		But anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he's out there shooting cats.
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, this little kitten, I haven't seen it yet, but it's a gray tiger and has white feet.
		And it has its own kitty door to come in and out.
		And the minister told me the other day that they had been feeding them inside the church, but they had to quit doing that because the coons come in his little kitty door and eat his food.
		So the church is kind of out in the country.
		So now they're feeding him outside, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's wonderful.
unidentified		But anyway, oh, his name is Ezekiel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, JC'd put a pellet through him without thinking about it.
unidentified		Yeah, he'd have a fat chance doing that around me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call.
unidentified		Bye-bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Ezekiel.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Bob from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
		How are you?
		Oh, Sacramento, Sacramento.
		Bob, did you happen to see the piece they ran on me?
		Yes, I did.
		I want to hear all about it because I haven't seen it.
unidentified		Well, yeah, in fact, I even taped it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		So if you want it, you can give me a address or something, and I can send it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		will absolutely supply you with an address um...
		in the meantime though i'm i'm curious uh...
		what sort of uh...
		And what I want you to do is try and remember most of the details about it, in particular what my wife said, because I have absolutely no idea.
		And the angle they took on the piece.
		And when we come back, we'll see what that was all about.
		Yeah, there was a whole very nice TV crew here, as a matter of fact, from Sacramento.
		They run, I'm told, in other areas of the West.
		But I started getting facts and saying, hey, saw you on TV.
		And I had no idea it was going to run that quickly.
		Oh, well.
		The electronic age, huh, folks?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May
		21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
		Looking out for a place to go Whether to play the right music Getting in between You'll come to look for a dream Anybody could be that guy.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've just got a word.
		There's been a couple of earthquakes.
		The V-A-N-U-A-T-U Islands, a 6.4, 6.1 in southern India.
		That might be very serious.
		That word just in, and we'll have to see how it develops.
		So a couple of pretty big earthquakes, again, coinciding with a very full moon up there, as you know.
		All right, back now to Sacramento.
		Thank you for hanging in there, sir.
		No problem.
		So they ran a TV thing on me there in Sacramento.
		What was the angle?
unidentified		Really, they just kind of talked about you, you know, how you like to take callers and explore, you know, the unknown, you know, Bigfoot and UFOs and stuff.
unidentified		When they also interviewed your wife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		See, I wasn't around for that.
		See, I was in here doing the program, and the guy with the camera and the producer went into the other room, and I had no idea they were doing that.
		So what did my wife have to say?
unidentified		She was just saying that she wishes that you could take a little more time off to relax a little bit, you know, to take a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she tells me that all the time.
unidentified		And they also ran you a story about your UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		UFO encounter, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		And they were also showing clips from close encounters from the third kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		I thought that was kind of funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was a pretty good piece then?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, it was pretty enjoyable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I want to see it.
unidentified		Well, like I said, I've got that tape, and if you want it, I could send it out to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would absolutely appreciate it.
unidentified		Oh, and they also mentioned you're on 650 KST.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And they also mentioned how you really raised their ratings up to number one on the AEM stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was not only kind, but true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		You'd like that, and all your fans would like that, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, we do like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		It is true.
		And we've done that just about everywhere we've gone.
		And there's no magic to it.
		It's just loose anything goes radio.
		And it's a little bit of a different diet than what's being served up everywhere else.
		And apparently that's all it takes.
		One of these days, the rest of the industry is going to wake up to that.
unidentified		I hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Super Dave up here in Harbor Country, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Super Dave.
		All right.
		I like that name.
		Super Dave.
unidentified		All right.
		I just wanted to let you know that, well, JC was hilarious.
		How is Roland?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't even know what to make of that guy.
		I vacillate between thinking that he is just a put-on.
		But you know what?
		I really don't think he is because I put him on the air one night for an hour.
		I said, JC, I'm going to have you.
		You remember that, do you?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I was listening to it totally.
unidentified		So he points the finger just a little too much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and, you know, like, he was really coming after me tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He knows how I feel about cats, and so that was really a low blow, I thought.
unidentified		Oh, that was, oh, the voice was hilarious.
		You know, I wanted to ask you, I was watching this thing on Discovery Channel about Stealth Bomber and a few of the other planes.
		They were talking about how they had, were flying that triangle-shaped plane back in 64 and they were hiding it for that long.
		And then they showed a picture of an old plane that was considerably smaller than the real one.
		It was like the shape of a car or something, or as small as a car.
		And towards the end of the program, the guy was saying how they had unmanned floating platforms, and they showed this circular disc.
		And I couldn't believe this show, and I wasn't recording it on VCR nothing at the time, but I have been watching to see if they would repeat it.
		And I was just, you know, I was like, you know, it's the government.
		You know, a lot of these discs people are seeing in Mexico.
		You know, it's not far from, you know, Area 51.
		You know, I think it's the big scam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's something, sir.
		I don't know what, but it's definitely something.
		It's not nothing.
		There's something really going on.
		And I'm getting a little frustrated with the whole thing.
		That's why I had this very nice city council member on from Phoenix earlier.
		People like that are not just doing this for attention.
		This woman is getting clobbered.
		She's asking legitimate questions about a craft that hovered above a major U.S. city with 2 million people in the area for a substantial amount of time, and they're laughing at her.
		That kind of makes me angry.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
unidentified		I mean, it's just like this big form of denial.
unidentified		I mean, it's there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's getting a little worse than that.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		But it's getting worse than denial.
		It's actually beginning to almost get me angry.
		I mean, why do we get a response to a legitimate question?
		I mean, she is one of nine people who are on the city council of Phoenix.
		Thousands of people, not five, saw this.
		It was captured on videotape.
		It ran on national news.
		It ran in Phoenix.
		Blah, blah, blah.
		It was real.
		Whatever it was, it was real.
		A real something.
		And a request for an investigation of a real something brings derisive laughter.
		And that makes me angry.
		So I, you know, frankly, I hope a lot of people call her up and give her support.
		I really do.
		I hope a lot of you call her up and give her support, particularly those of you who saw it and also feel that legitimate questions should not be poo-pooed and that people should not suffer politically simply because they ask questions.
unidentified		if we come to that day and age, well then...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what does it say here?
		What?
		Why am I the last to find out anything around here?
		So you're going to advertise Web TV?
		Yes, we found a very good company, and I've been wanting to advertise Web TV for a long time.
		And this is a really good company.
		So you're going to be buddies with Bill Gates, huh?
		Well, I guess he bought it.
		I've been experimenting with Web TV quietly for the last days.
		And I've got it here.
		And it is wonderful.
		I was really pleasantly surprised with the efficiency of WebTV.
		You know, for people who don't want to use a computer, but they want access to, for example, my website.
		Yeah, there's no question about it.
		Web TV is a way to go.
		I'm a computer nut, and so I do it through computers, and I, frankly, had a lot of reservations about WebTV, and boy, are they gone.
		It is so easy.
		I mean, you plug it in.
		It says, hi there, basically, and dials the number automatically, connects you up, and asks you where you want to go.
		It is the simplest, user-friendly, important thing to happen in a long time.
		So yes, within the next, I don't know, week or something, you're going to hear us advertising Web TV.
		And I think the very best system out there right now.
		That's all I'll say about it right now.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I'm about to hit it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is good.
unidentified		Yeah, I clicked on before.
unidentified		Yeah, I keep trying to get through, and I never expected to get through, and I heard you, and boom, all of a sudden, oh, I got to run into my radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		Hey, I got a question for you.
unidentified		A while ago, you mentioned if someone had an atomic bomb, what would you do with it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that, yes.
unidentified		I'd make every person who owes money U.S.-wise to pay up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the trouble is that unless you could gather them all, the debtors that is, in one general area, you'd have trouble with one bomb.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you could only use it once, and then everybody else would laugh at you.
unidentified		This is true.
		Now, I've got another question for you.
		The thing that happened in Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I've never seen, I work graveyard, so I'd never see any news or anything.
unidentified		How serious was this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very serious.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very serious.
		It went on for hours.
		Holy cow.
		It was hovering over a major U.S. city.
		Phoenix is a major U.S. city by any measure.
		And this poor city council lady, all she did was go to the city council and ask that there be some sort of investigation.
		And, you know, the usual has happened to her.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Now, see, that amazes me, because if as many people supposedly have seen it, excuse me, and have the proof, why is this so much of a supposed denial, we'll say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure it's exactly a denial because they can't deny what's captured on film.
		What they're saying is the city is saying we don't have the facilities to investigate that.
		We don't investigate that kind of thing.
		We can't do it.
		They're saying the Air Force ought to do it.
		The Air Force is saying, we don't investigate that kind of thing.
		And I'm sitting here thinking, well, if the city fathers of a city that size don't care that something that big is hovering over them, that nobody knows what it is, then what good are they?
		And if the Air Force, who is supposed to be protecting our skies and our national security, isn't concerned about something that big hovering over a major U.S. city's airspace, then what good are they?
unidentified		Well, it depends on what you consider a national security.
		Oh, I'm sorry.
		By the way, I'm calling from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		From Como and KBI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I have a friend that we listen to you all the time.
		And we debate this back and forth.
		I have a friend of mine named Brian, and I'm Morris from Factoria.
		And the reason why I don't think it's really a national security issue is because I think they are our own ships that supposedly are so far advanced in technology.
		I mean that's the theory that him and I bounce back and forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm willing to accept that scenario.
		If they are that, then you would think at the very, very least, if they had these ships, they would not hover them over a two million area of population.
		They would be somewhat more discreet and go out into the middle of the desert where I The best kept secret sometimes is right in front of your face.
		Hiding in plain sight.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		Well, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then they're playing head games with us.
unidentified		The military?
		Play head games?
		Yep.
		Oh, peshaw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Goodbye, sir.
		All right.
		Here is a statement attributed to Walter Cronkite from The New American, May 12, 1997.
		I don't know if this is true, but supposedly it came from the New American, Walter Cronkite.
		If we are to avoid a nuclear World War II, quote, a system of world order, preferably a system of world government, is mandatory, declares Walter Cronkite in his recent book, A Reporter's Life.
		That proud nations someday will see the light and for the common good and their own survival yield up their precious sovereignty just as America's 13 colonies did two centuries ago.
		When we finally come to our senses and establish a world executive and parliament of nations, thanks to the Nuremberg precedent, we will already have in place the fundamentals for the third branch of government, the judiciary.
		The judiciary.
		Do you think Walter Krunkheit really said that?
		He might have.
		West to the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Can you turn the radio off?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
unidentified		Good evening, Art, or you should say good morning.
unidentified		I'm calling from Fairbanks, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, even there, I think it's solidly morning now.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		I'm so glad I got through.
		Art, I want to say two things.
		I listened to you the night that you asked us to meditate or to send our thoughts to whatever intelligence is out there.
		Yes.
		Well, I want to tell you, I did, and I've been meditating for the last 30 years.
		So I honestly, I shut your radio off, and I did that.
		And about a half hour after I did that, the most, well, for me, it was funny.
		It was because I love the outdoors and living in Fairbanks.
		I miss living in the bush.
		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		My window, my bedroom window, faces an Alaska willow tree.
		They're not like the willow trees down south.
		And so it's big.
		And guess what flew up on it and started cooing to me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cooing?
unidentified		An owl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cooing to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An owl?
unidentified		An owl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're kidding.
unidentified		I couldn't believe it.
		And I kind of kept on trying to meditate, but I couldn't meditate because I started giggling.
		And I was so, because they won't come there, they're not here that much in town.
		And it was the most beautiful owl.
		And I went to the window and I just looked at it, and it just stayed there.
		It didn't move or anything.
		Well, about three or four weeks ago on your show, it surprised me because someone on your radio state, on your, I don't remember who it was, popped up about owls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Owls, yes.
unidentified		And I thought, oh, they, I don't believe it.
		Well, I was really surprised.
		And that's the first thing I wanted to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a hoot.
unidentified		It was wonderful.
		I couldn't believe it.
		And I was wondering if other people had animal experiences that night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'll probably get put away, but I am firmly convinced that it is possible to communicate with animals.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With telepathy.
		And I've got this wild cat of mine called Comet, and Comet is still pretty much a wild thing.
		But I can sit calmly by Comet and meditate and try and communicate with him.
		And even without touching him, he will start purring.
		And I just darn well know that I am in some form of communication.
		I can noticeably see him Relax, his ears come forward, his muscles relax.
		I just know it.
		I mean, I just know it.
		People will think I'm crazy, and I don't care.
unidentified		Oh, I agree 100% with you.
		The other thing I wanted to be on a more serious note: Art, I haven't been able to listen to you all the time because I honestly can't stay awake all night.
		Have anybody been calling or saying anything about the aura of the planet?
		You know how we have auras and all plant life has auras?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Since I was a little girl, I've always been able to see, especially if I go up to the, like on a horizon, you can see the aura of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've not been aware of that, but I would imagine it could be so.
unidentified		It's always been, my father told me that it's just part of the gift we have in our family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I suppose our aura has turned a dark poop brown.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No, no.
		I was, what I can't understand is all my life, I was born in 1940.
		I'm 50.
		I'm going on 57.
		And what I couldn't understand is the wave of the aura is becoming more jagged.
		And I was wondering if any of your people that you have on have said anything about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're the first one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I would imagine if the planet had an aura, which I wasn't aware of, that it would be at the very least right now getting a bit jagged.
unidentified		It's not the normal waviness of it.
		You know how an aurora is?
		The waviness of the aurora?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life on this planet, my dear, is becoming a little jagged.
unidentified		Wavy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Hey, listen, I'm going to give you the honors because the program is over.
		We're out of time.
		So, from way up north in Fairbanks, Alaska.
unidentified		This is Fairbanks, Alaska, saying, God bless you, Art Bell, and good night, the whole world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's it.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		And from the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
		Thank you all.
		Tomorrow night, don't forget Terrence McKenna.
		You're going to find that fascinating.
		We'll be talking about time.

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