Frances Irma Barwood, Phoenix councilwoman, recounts March 1997’s unexplained "Phoenix Lights"—50+ calls of silent, star-blocking formations (V-shaped, boomerang) hovering at 1,000–5,000 feet, dismissed by officials despite witness reports and videotape. Military flares were ruled out; radar showed nothing, yet Barwood faces recall threats and mockery from Arizona AG Grant Woods for demanding answers. Art Bell questions why the Air Force ignored a phenomenon seen by thousands, speculating about psychological manipulation or hidden experiments, while callers link it to past sightings like Bellingham Bay’s 1976 lights. The episode underscores systemic dismissal of unexplained aerial events, raising doubts about transparency and national security priorities. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across all these many time zones.
From the exotic Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chain in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, all the way out into the Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
This is Postpose AM.
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Mark Bell.
Great to be here.
Well, what an interesting program we have coming up for you this morning.
My guest right out of the chute here is going to be Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
And oh my, what a story it is from Phoenix.
So we will talk about all of that with Councilwoman Barwood in a moment.
All right, most of the listeners of this program are very, very well aware of the incredible sightings over the city of Phoenix recently.
As a matter of fact, we had a report, a rather detailed, lengthy report, from Peter Davenport at the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
Peter, if you're out there, give me a call now, and we'll arrange to get you on.
I shouldn't have called Peter earlier, but let me read you an article as manner of introduction here from the Arizona Republic, that's the big paper in Phoenix, by Chris Fiskis, it looks like.
Phoenix may have opened an X file on recent UFO sightings over the city, but don't expect it to confirm the existence of Arizona-bound extraterrestrials.
Councilwoman Frances Irma Barwood recently asked city staff to look into reports of bright lights in the city's March skies.
The staff's finding, the city does not have an Air Force, therefore there isn't much to tell.
Since, this is a quote, since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate source of lights such as those that were reported, we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters.
Luke Air Force Base officials, however, said they do not plan to investigate.
The mystery began on a March night when calls began flooding in Duluke, the National Weather Service, the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
Callers reported bright lights in the form of a boomerang, with lights described as red-orange, red, white, or bluish-white.
The calls came from Pauldon, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Dewey, Chino Valley, and other cities, including Phoenix, Glendale, and the East Valley.
But the report from the City of Phoenix staff says there were fewer than five contacts, concerned residents, not aliens to the police department, reporting on or asking about these mysterious lights.
A check with the city's aviation department also turned up little except a few calls.
And the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, did not report anything unusual.
Barwood said she isn't surprised by the city's ultra-brief inquiry, saying she expected the staff to brush aside the issue.
Is that not ridiculous, she asked.
I thought they probably would say we're not going to investigate, which is basically what they said.
It's still amazing to me that no one seems to be all that concerned.
There definitely was something there.
As to what it was, I don't have a clue.
I'm kind of an open-minded skeptic.
Barwood said she has received 50 calls, not five, but 50.
They all described the same thing, she said.
The callers all reported something that was huge and made no noise.
This does not mean it is something out of this world, she said.
At the very least, you'd think people would want to know what was flying over their homes, but what if it would have crashed?
I personally don't think it was extraterrestrial.
I think it was military, on the other hand.
If it is something from another world, Arwood said, I want to see it.
She also hears the Francis sees little green men talk and the derisive laughter running through City Hall.
I know that Skippy and Scott Phelps, Phoenix Mayor Skip Rims, I believe it is, and his spokesman are having a field day over this, she said.
Doesn't take much to make little minds work hard.
Hmm.
Marwood still doesn't understand why such a fuss was made when she asked the city staff to look into the matter.
The city should get to the bottom of what exactly was flying around the city skies that night, says she.
It could have done damage to antennas or something.
And Mr. Miller sent me a pack saying, Dear Art, seldom does one read about any elected official, for that matter, who is willing to acknowledge even the possibility of the existence of UFOs.
To those of us fortunate enough to know Francis Barwood, the accompanying article, the one I just read, will come as no surprise.
And he suggested I contact Frances Barwood, who is indeed a city councilman in the city of Phoenix.
Before we get into this specific incident, I would like to know what is your relationship generally with the rest of the city council and the mayor?
In other words, is there some political animosity that preceded this?
unidentified
It's kind of been things that have happened over the last five and a half years.
I am not afraid to ask questions, and I've been told on numerous occasions that it would be better off if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't ask questions.
But there's a lot of things that I find if it's things that the city did that I don't feel is right, I'll ask the question as to, you know, is it constitutional or, you know, do we feel that we are fighting our citizens, you know, stuff like that.
And because of that, you know, there's been a little friction.
What got you in politics and motivated to begin doing things and become involved?
unidentified
I kind of backed into it way back in 1985 or 6.
I was on a transportation subcommittee because of a road that was coming through it with a freeway.
And I found out after I had bought a house that the freeway was going to take a couple of feet of my front yard, and nobody would give me an answer.
So I kept asking more and more questions, and I was given the runaround, and I ended up on this transportation committee, and from there was appointed to a larger committee, which was the Squaw Peak Extension Advisory Committee.
And the mayor that appointed me at the time probably regrets it to this day, but made me think of, well, do you work against or do you work with?
And I felt that, you know, if I found Citi very interesting, and I decided that I would get more involved with city things.
And after my youngest child was 17, I ran for city council and won.
In other words, when you ask questions either across of other city council members or of the mayor, do you get the kind of straight answers that you dish out to your constituents?
And if it does, at least you've been righteously bitten and you can walk away with a head held high.
unidentified
Well, let me tell you the rest of the story.
I'm under attack of a recall.
It didn't have anything to do with this thing, but it was because of a zoning case, and they accused the city of hiding things.
And I said, no, the city wouldn't do that.
And, you know, when we voted on it, there was no opposition.
And I really, I truly believed that until I was called as a witness for a group that was suing the city on another issue.
And during the time I was giving a deposition, they had asked me a particular question.
And I said, oh, no, because we didn't know about that in mid-95.
And they put a letter in front of me that was from our mayor to the head of this company back four months before we voted on it, saying exactly where it was going to go and everything, and not CC to anybody.
It was a personal letter.
And they pulled it out of the, you know, the truth and open law, whatever it is.
And at that point, I was furious.
And that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.
I just felt that was extremely dishonest on the mayor's part.
He could have said right at the beginning, well, Yes, I knew about this ahead of time, but he didn't.
And there was an article that this reporter did, Tony Ortega, and he found out about this letter because I was so furious I told someone who told someone who told him, and then he called me.
And they did quite a good article on it, and the title of it was, I've Been Had.
And some of the people who are leading this opposition got that article, and they called me, and they said, you know, well, we felt that it wasn't you, but, you know, are you sure you didn't know about that?
And I said, there would be no way that I could know about it.
And also when they went down there to pull all the information about this particular area and case, they did not get that letter.
As a matter of interest, and we will finally get to this UFO business, folks, but as a matter of interest, what is the political wave right now in Arizona, Phoenix, specifically regarding gun control?
Are you on the wrong side of that argument as far as a lot of people are concerned?
unidentified
Well, in some parts of the city, and it was another thing that the mayor and I were on different sides on, even though he is a Republican, he voted for the meltdown of guns and stopping the police auctions.
I didn't realize at the time to compare it to what was on the ground under it to realize how big it was, but that came later.
I had assumed at the time that there was an investigation going on because it was on all these news channels.
And so I thought, gee, I wish I would have seen it, and that was that.
It wasn't until two weeks ago from yesterday that I was on my way to a policy session at 2.30 in the afternoon.
And we have chambers across the street from City Hall.
And as I was walking over there with another council member, this TV crew from Extra jumped out and said, excuse me, but how come nobody from the city will talk to us?
And I said, what are you talking about?
And he said, well, nobody will talk to us.
And I said, what do you want to know?
And she said, well, you know, there were the lights that were over Phoenix on March 13th, and everyone we've talked to said they don't want to talk about it.
They're not investigated and not investigating and they're not interested.
And I said, Well, I thought it was being investigated and she said, No, it wasn't and I said, Well, I'll ask.
So I went into policy session and that's our only televised session.
And I, you know, sit down and we get a little blip in the beginning of the session that we're allowed to ask any question on anything.
All right, we are interviewing a councilwoman Frances Barwood in Phoenix.
And where we left off, she had gone into, I guess, a meeting, one in which there is television coverage, and I guess each council person gets to make a short statement or something or another.
You had just been confronted by extra cameras, and you said, I'll ask.
So you went in there with television blazing away, and what did you say?
unidentified
Well, I said that I was stopped by a TV crew outside, and that they had asked about the lights that appeared over Phoenix on March 13th, and apparently nobody is doing an investigation, so I would like to request that we do the investigation.
And it's because I ask questions that, and I've done things that get me in a lot of trouble from time to time, but I think that they're the right things.
And one of the things I did that they were very upset with me in the past was we had, I don't know if you know about the flag exhibit that went to the Phoenix Art Museum.
I really don't support a constitutional amendment to put people in jail for things they do to the flag, because I suppose freedom is not freedom unless it's really free.
But on the other hand, when it's done at the expense of the taxpayer, it's kind of like the prayer and school argument, is it not?
In other words, public schools are one thing and the private sector is very much another.
unidentified
Well, I guess that's where I differ a little bit.
I feel that freedom of religion and separation of church and state means that the government is not going to interfere if we want to pray.
And so I feel a little bit different on that.
And with the flag, you know, they kept saying, well, it's not a taxpayer's expense, but it was totally because the funding came from three universities back east, which were all taxpayer funded.
And the building itself, it's owned by the city of Phoenix, which is the taxpayers' ongoing.
Okay, but the point I was making is, for example, at Christmas, when there is some sort of display on city grounds, they usually order it removed because it is on public property.
Isn't that true?
Isn't that how they go after it usually?
unidentified
That's true.
And yet with this, they felt that this was perfectly justified.
I've been down the Benson Road a few times myself.
unidentified
But I don't have a problem with that because that's what I believe in, and I feel that I was right, and that's that.
The other thing was we have a National Memorial Veterans Cemetery here, and some developers tried to put a road right through the middle of it, and kind of underhandedly they went and did a court suit.
They didn't put in the fact that that was a cemetery there, and they brought the plans from 1965, and the judge gave them the right to put this road through this, what looked like state land, but it wasn't.
It was our National Veterans Memorial Cemetery.
So another woman and I went out there and blocked the bulldozers.
And, you know, the veterans were definitely great.
I mean, they came out there en masse.
Unfortunately, the city was very upset with me, but the city was the one that gave them the permit to go through there, and they knew.
I mean, they knew that that was a cemetery.
Well, some of those people from this development group have joined on this recall also.
Well, I'm either going to be a real person again, or I may go for one other office, but then that's it.
But it was on hold because it was kind of ridiculous to have a recall being that there was going to be a regular election and I wasn't running anyway until the Monday after I asked the question and it had appeared in the paper on that Saturday.
Has your experience with politics, Francis, made you cynical?
unidentified
It's made me aware that, you know, I've got a sign in my kitchen that says, I love my country, but I fear my government.
And I think, you know, government has gotten too much power, and people are too afraid of things.
I mean, I have been warned by so many people, like, just watch your back.
And one pilot said to me, watch your six.
Well, I didn't know what a six was until another pilot explained it to me.
And, you know, it's really sad to feel that way because the people are supposed to be the bosses.
And somewhere along the line, it has totally reversed, but it's reversed all the way to where the city is supposed to be the main power, the state, the secondary, and the federal, the third, and the people are over all of that.
and it's totally reversed with federal government is you know on top of everything and total power and over everybody else and it's just Don't open this up or you're going to be history.
And I've ceased caring.
unidentified
You do.
I figure, you know, you just, to me, life is a learning experience.
And if you're going to be afraid of everything, I mean, I've been shot at at my front door, not because of this.
This happened, you know, back always.
I've had my tire spiked.
I've had dog crap thrown all over my driveway.
I've had so many death threats that it gets to be.
All right, so you went in and you requested they investigate publicly, requested that they investigate what occurred in Phoenix.
And you got a deathly silence, I guess, and you got people saying you shouldn't be bringing this subject up, and then what?
unidentified
Well, you know, little odds and ends, little snickers and stuff like that, which I understand that.
But, you know, it came out that I asked about UFOs, and I never ever said that.
What I said was there were these lights that were over Phoenix and traveling very slow, and they're not investigating.
We should look into it.
Now, I would think, you know, being the city, that at least there would be some concern as to if, okay, if this was an airplane and it was, you know, in our airspace, overpopulated area where it shouldn't be, something's wrong here.
The Air Force had something called Project Blue Book that looked into UFOs many, many years ago.
And the conclusion was that, yes, there were a percentage of sightings that simply could not be explained, but, according to the Air Force, they did not, whatever they were, represent a threat to national security.
And I have a very hard time with that one.
If something is above our airspace, and in this case, above your city, and it's massive, and it doesn't represent a threat to national security, then what does?
Listen, I want to tell you, I had gazillions of faxes and emails and phone calls.
And in this article, it says, quoting, but the report from the city of Phoenix says, staff, says there were fewer than five contacts to the police department reporting or even asking about the mysterious lights.
Five calls, Francis.
unidentified
I can only go by what the report says.
And I would think that because of the description of this, that people were more, they called the TV stations.
And I think they were more curious as to what it was than afraid because, well, let me tell you what people described to me.
Sure.
And this is real interesting.
All these people hadn't talked because I asked them if they talked to Sky Watchers or MUFON or the UFO Reporting Center.
They had not.
And some of them did towards the end.
But the first ones that called me did not.
And they said they didn't tell anybody because they thought that people would think they were crazy.
And they all said the same thing.
It had three to seven lights.
One person said maybe nine.
They were amber or white.
It was a triangle or boomerang shape.
It was extremely enormous.
They said somewhere the size of a football field up to one mile.
It was at about 1,000 to 5,000 feet elevation, altitude.
But they all said the same thing.
Absolutely no noise.
And the man that called me from Prescott Valley was outside with some friends, and he said that the way they noticed this thing was it had no lights on it.
They were all off.
They noticed because it's a higher altitude up there and it blocked out the stars.
And he said it was so huge that they just kept watching it and it moved so slow and no noise.
He said we couldn't figure out what the heck was going on.
And there were so many people that actually caught sight of a shape that, you know, there's no doubt to me because of all the phone calls that this was something, to me it was a huge stealth bomber from what they described.
But the pilots that called me and the ex-military and one very prominent person in Phoenix, they all said the same thing, was that when they first saw it, they thought that it was a plane formation coming.
And as it got closer, they realized that these lights were on one object.
They didn't move separate from each other.
They were fixed.
And as it got closer yet, I mean, this one guy said, I was a pilot for 27 years, and he said, I have never in my entire life seen anything as huge as this.
That sounds like something from Independence Day almost, doesn't it?
unidentified
Well, and okay, now I had to tell you, I was at a meeting where this guy was totally panicked.
And he said, this is really scary.
This is awful.
This is like, and I said, listen, if by some chance it did come from somewhere else, and they have the power to get all the way to here, and I'm afraid to fly, so, you know, and they got here and they flew over a populated area, and they were so obvious so that, you know, we actually saw them, except I didn't, but, you know, that people actually saw them.
They could have wiped us out in a shot, and they didn't, so they can't be dangerous.
And he goes, oh, okay.
So that's kind of my philosophy.
I am real curious, and I think if it was something that wanted, you know, to do harm.
I mean, out here where I am, you can hear crickets at a quarter mile, and I could hear them as this thing came directly over our head.
No known propulsion system that I'm aware of can do that.
Frances, I want you to hold on because I want to take some calls from Phoenix, all right?
So stay right there, and we'll do a little more after the top of the hour.
My guest is a Phoenix councilwoman named Frances Barwood, who appears to be in some trouble for just asking questions about what happened over Phoenix.
If you are one of the five people, you can put that one in quotes, who saw this object, I would very much appreciate a call from you at about this point, and we'll get you on the air after the top of the hour.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
She had the guts to ask a few questions that seemed to have her in all kinds of trouble.
Aside from what other political troubles may be looming on the horizon, she dared to ask about the lights, the massive, massive lights that appeared over the city of Phoenix.
It's a big city, folks.
A couple million people in the Phoenix area.
And so we're talking with her, and there's more to the story.
Stand by.
The End Once again, I've got the lines open specifically for Phoenix.
If you saw the lights, if you know about the story, then we would encourage you to participate.
We're going to be getting to the phones in just a moment.
Now, once again, back to Frances Barwood, a council lady, a councilwoman, I guess, for the city of Phoenix for at least a while longer, huh?
Now, you mentioned to me before the program something about air traffic controllers.
I had heard that there was no radar acquisition of these at all.
What do you know about that?
unidentified
That's true.
And when Extra did its follow-up story on our Channel 12 out here, they had two flight controllers that were on duty that night, and they asked them, you know, if they picked up anything on radar.
And they said, no, absolutely nothing, but they saw it visually.
So we're not talking about some little trivial incident here, which surprises me with regard to their attitude.
Now, I've got to ask you this, Francis.
Do you think that they know more than they're telling?
In other words, that the Air Force came to perhaps the mayor or somebody at that level and said, look, it's something we were doing.
We can't talk about it.
We don't want publicity about it.
which might account for the Arizona Republic's halting reporting, delayed reporting.
I don't know.
I'm just stabbing in the dark here at such a large incident over such a big city that the response is a little puzzling.
unidentified
Well, yeah, and I think people's imaginations go wild when you don't tell them anything.
Yes, I think that people being fairly sensible most of the time, if the military would say, hey, listen, we were doing something, really sorry, but quite the opposite.
They issued a press release saying it wasn't us, we didn't do it, and we're not going to investigate.
Okay, so, no, but again, going back to my question, do you think it's possible that, in other words, do you behind the scenes have the feeling the mayor might know more than he's saying about this, for example?
unidentified
I honestly don't know, and I didn't see any clue to that, so I really don't know.
Even that's puzzling, because you would think if the military was doing it, that they would not do it directly over the city of Phoenix, of all places.
I mean, there's a lot of barren land for you to do that kind of thing in.
unidentified
Certainly.
It's just all I can say is everybody here that I know is kind of like in denial.
We really don't want to believe it, but it's scaring the heck out of us.
If it's a UFO, that might explain some of the denial.
People don't want to believe in that kind of stuff.
Anyway, sure, go ahead.
Could I ask you, my phone number is in the phone book.
Could you give me a call?
Sure.
And I'd really like to kind of hear everything that you saw.
I have gotten a lot of calls, but that's okay, because I really feel that for one thing, people are relieved to talk about it.
And they've been afraid to say anything to anybody.
And I would say most of my calls, when they call, they say, you know, we didn't say anything to anybody because we're just so afraid that somebody would laugh at us and think we're crazy.
So just by talking about it, that's one thing.
But, you know, it helps to get everybody where they were at the time and the angle they saw it at.
And the group, Sky Watchers, is doing like kind of a big map where they're marking all where the people were and where they saw it.
There's a congressman named Schiff in New Mexico who has run into some brick walls trying to ask questions about what occurred at Roswell.
So many brick walls that, you know, he was just doing a casual request for information, and the brick wall was so hard and so thick that he became suspicious and began digging deeper.
And lo and behold, the records of the time in question unfortunately were destroyed in total.
It was an amazing story.
So you're not the only one, but you are a very brave one because not too many people in government at any level are willing to even open their mouths and ask a question like this.
unidentified
Well, you know, I don't consider myself brave because to me it's kind of that's the way it should be.
But I'm also a Christian, and somebody said, well, how can you, you know, even think that this could be from somewhere else?
And I said, well, I didn't say that, but, you know, people are the only ones that limit God to earth.
He's supposed to be the God of the universe.
Here, here.
And if, you know, he could put us here, why couldn't he put some people other places?
And so, you know, while I've never seen anything and I'm totally skeptical, I do want to see something.
I feel, you know, let's just keep an open mind and look at everything.
I saw the lights, and at the time I didn't think anything of them much.
It wasn't seven, ten days later when I saw something on the news eclipse talking about it.
And I thought, well, that must have been those lights I saw.
But at the time, I didn't think anything about it.
The only unusual thing was I didn't hear any noise.
What I thought it was, I stepped outside in the backyard to check out Help Bot for one of the last times, because it was starting to fade away at that time.
In the northwest sky, where I was looking for the comet, I saw the lights about five to seven, and at the time it appeared to me as National Guard copters, which usually fly on the weekends, which we see all the time, in a formation.
So that's what I thought it was.
The unusual thing for me was that it was at night, which I usually don't see him at night, and there was no noise at all.
But it wasn't odd enough for me to even tell anybody about it.
Are you surprised by the city's lack of reaction or muted reaction to Councilwoman Barwood's request for some sort of investigation?
unidentified
I am surprised about that.
And the only other thing that concerns me is with the direction I sought, which took it directly over Sky Harbor from my vantage point, and I would think radar would have seen something on their screens.
The United States has now craft that it flies that are not detectable by conventional radar.
If we have that, then it's equally possible that it was ours or somebody else's.
But you've got to imagine somebody who could get here would have, at the very least, the ability not to be noticed on radar if they wished it to be so.
I mean, if we can have that technology, they can, right?
unidentified
Well, that's true, but I would think I'm thinking it's probably something of ours, but I don't know why the government or whoever wouldn't come out and just say, yeah, it's secret or we're not going to talk about it, instead of just playing dumb about it.
And they were being kind of obvious.
Right, that seems strange.
But I watched it for a good five minutes fly to the north and directly straight line to the south towards Tucson until it went out of the horizon.
I would have thought I'd grab my video camera, but I didn't even think.
I'm not very good at that, but it was, you know, a thousand feet or more.
The lights weren't that bright.
So I had had my binoculars handy.
I was watching Hailbob earlier also, and grabbed the binoculars, and not only my wife, but my 13-year-old son was outside, and we're all watching this.
I have the binoculars, and I'm trying to find a craft in between the lights.
And I can't see any metal.
I can't see anything there, just the same color as the background.
I can't say that I could see stars through it or we're moving, for one thing.
Was the binoculars moving through the sky trying to look at something?
They don't want to investigate any of those things either.
unidentified
There was another really strange thing that I thought that happened in my neck of the woods here, and that was about a half an hour after the thing floated by, just an enormous amount of helicopter activity up here.
They were flying north from my house and seemed to be landing someplace, and one flew right over my house and almost stopped.
My guest is Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood, who had the nerve to simply ask that this massive, massive whatever in the hell it was above Phoenix be investigated.
And she more or less hit a political brick wall.
Are you surprised?
We're sort of holding our lines open as we're able for Phoenix people to call in.
So if you saw it, if you're in Phoenix, please pick any of the numbers that you're able to get through on and give us a call.
We'll get back to Francis Barwood for another 30 minutes in a moment.
All right, back now to Councilwoman Frances Barwood, Councilwoman for the City of Phoenix.
And I'm curious, Frances, how's the rest of the media, other than the Republic, treated you?
I mean, have you done radio interviews?
Have you talked to people?
What's the deal?
unidentified
I've done a few.
When anybody asks me, I'll talk to anybody.
So it's been interesting.
When I'm not on a show, I got blasted.
Our Attorney General seems to enjoy poking fun, and he has a talk show on Friday afternoons.
And he really blasted me.
His name is Grant Woods, and he gives out what he calls Woody's to whatever he feels, you know, like he feels like making fun of.
And I was nominated by him, and it was interesting.
But I think, Francis, that, for example, Gallup polls taken recently show that the greater percentage of the American public happens to be on your side.
Now, you're being very conservative in the way you're approaching this request for an investigation.
And I must tell you, and whatever his name is, should take this into consideration, that more Americans than not believe something real is going on, and they're not chuckling, and it's showing up in every Gallup poll.
So, you know, some of your colleagues, perhaps, would be wise to read the polls, which politicians normally do, before acting and opening mouth and engaging, you know.
unidentified
Well, I don't read the polls, so I guess I'm kind of guilty of that myself.
Yeah, and I just was absolutely ecstatic to hear this discussion tonight because I saw this thing in the sky, and my first impression was this was something totally unnatural.
And when I say unnatural, unnatural in the sense that it did not appear to be hovering helicopters or flares or airplanes or anything of that sort.
I was driving in my car at the time, and my impression was that these lights are stationary.
They're not moving in any direction, and they're equidistance apart.
And my first impression was, is this is indeed what might be classified as a UFO.
Sure.
Because I was in my car and I was headed somewhere else, I did not have a chance to observe it very long.
And then I kind of, you know, I didn't watch TV that night or anything.
and then i heard on your show a few weeks ago your discussion with another gentleman i did not know that that the uh...
Exactly.
And I did not know that there had been coverage on TV or anything of that sort.
And what I actually saw was just a stationary five lights.
And they were equidistant, you know, when I'm saying the equidistance, I mean they were not moving.
They were not like hovering helicopters that might tend to move sideways up and down or whatever.
And where I've seen in the sky moving airplanes, things of that sort, where they change position in a matter of seconds, this just appeared to be five stationary lights moving either upward, downward, ways not changing but the relative position and that was exactly my first thought was was that
Does it bother you that the mayor of your city and the Air Force base adjacent to where you live don't seem to be interested?
unidentified
Well my feeling on the whole thing was astonishment because I really did not hear any hubbub about it the next day.
My colleagues at work had not heard about it.
And then I brought it to their attention after I heard your conversation with Mr. Davenport and no one at work had heard about this.
And then all of a sudden, and I recently wrote my father a letter and I told him, I said, it really bugs me that I just did not drive directly towards those lights to find out what the hell they were.
Because I was actually too far south of the lights.
It really, it does take a lot to come forward on something like this.
Let me ask you this, Frances.
If you had a chance to go back and keep your mouth shut now and not say anything, would you or would you do again the same thing?
unidentified
I'd do the same thing.
One of the other things that I asked about that got me in a lot of trouble, too, was when I first discovered that they had those metallic strips and dollars money.
But my question for the young lady there is, as far as the mayor Skip there went, where was he for the grand opening for that factory up there near her?
And number two, I understand I've heard on radio lately that the police officers are starting to remove these license plate covers people are placing on their vehicles to, I don't know, help with the photo radar.
Some of our surrounding cities have a law of the, what do you call photo radar and they have a law or they say they have a law nobody's proved it yet but that you can't get these little covers to go over your license plate so that the photo radar cannot read your license plate right and so what's happening is some police officers are stopping people and confiscating the covers wow so it's it's been a little hostile out there a little hostile i i am totally opposed
to photo radar by the way so all right west of the rockies you're on the air with councilwoman francis barwood hi hi where are you sir in cottonwood arizona all right and just monday night where i didn't see the ones in prescott because they were way west of me but monday night out on the porch you can see four well actually we can see three uh...
above the horizon orangey yellowish globes balls uh...
just kind of sitting there hovering and as we watched just two or three minutes later one came up from ground level of course there was trees out there so i can see it through the trees and i could see it coming up and uh...
it came up and kind of joined the others and one of them floated off to the left a little ways and then came back and they all started moving away from us but we could we stood there and watched them for a good five ten minutes uh...
this is verified with a number of investigators move on people peter davenport at the ufo reporting center uh...
in mexico francis i i don't know how much you're up on all of this i'm getting to be getting to be out of that in mexico city uh...
these sightings of the exact same kind of thing we're talking about here are so common that the people have almost come to expect it and not be surprised uh...
by what they're seeing literally that common and now in the southwest specifically in your area they're becoming almost that common as well and i wish i would see something yeah well well i always felt the same way until i finally did francis and when i did it uh...
literally changed my life on the wild card line you're on the air with francis barwood hi hi how you doing all right turn radio off please okay john in phoenix hi john hey yeah we saw some crazy stuff we saw the same thing it was pretty crazy man well this is amazing we've already heard from more than five at least five people how many of you saw it it was me and for my friend we were we were
unidentified
having this cake party out of my friend rob's house he said look dude look up at the sky if you looked up there it's like one of the most it kind of looked at first like a formation of some planes so people have said yeah and it was just like oh man that's just a bunch of planes but but rob was saying right but dude making no sound it's like you know when
you hear jets passing overhead we know what jets sound like yes yeah you can hear it and it's like there is absolutely no sound and it was bizarre but it's just like one of those things where you're always like no man it's can't can't be your you're sort of in denial about it yeah it's just like it what do you think it is reasonable that people ask questions about what's above your city yeah yeah yeah well I mean the thing the thing about it is is I just can't believe that that that the media and
unidentified
the air force and everybody is in total denial about it exactly it's always like they're always trying to cover something up and it's always in the same area and it's all it's always like someone's like hey you know nothing happened everything will be cool everybody be like
they're trying to keep the public yeah don't ask questions relax everything will be all right that kind of thing east of the rockies you're on the air with Francis Barwood hello hello hi where are you New Orleans Louisiana hello Barwood hello Mr. Bell hi there hi I've been listening to your program and from what I gather from the information so far I've heard that the military says that this these sidings are nothing to be worried about that apparently there's
Well, if that's the case, could this be a display of some military vehicle of our own design and not necessarily from another planet?
Of course.
Sure it could be.
And if so, how would this affect the civilian population and its idea of freedoms or what have you in this country to have such firepower flying above our skies?
But then the next question that is provoked is, if we do have something like that, and we may, then why in heaven's name fly it directly above a major population center?
That makes zero sense to me.
unidentified
Well, that's the puzzling part, is that it obviously was trying to be extremely obvious because of the path it took.
It never deviated away from heavy populated areas.
Now, if I could, I'd like to read you just two sentences from the report that was given.
It says, the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, did not report any unusual activity, even though those two guys did.
Since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate the source of light, such as those that were recorded,
reported we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters fair enough but they didn't ask them to do it so I am going to you are going to ask the Air Force yes how are you going to do that Francis you are senator we we have a senator who's sort of interested in this and I'm going to call him and and ask you know if he Could ask the Air Force to investigate this.
I was hoping that the city would initiate that as because, I mean, I'm just a council person.
Sure.
I don't have any particular power.
You know, I'm just one of nine votes.
I would have hoped that they would have said, well, we're asking the Air Force to check into this.
If it's not a threat business, then what have we got the Air Force for?
If something that large is hovering over a major population center and they don't even go to check it out, then what good are they?
unidentified
Well, and, you know, I wish they'd have a little more faith in human beings.
You know, if it is something that they are doing and they tell us, hey, we're doing it, fine, that's it.
If it's something from somewhere else and they say, you know, this is something from somewhere else, you know, people would be, some people would be a little upset.
But, you know, eventually they find it out anyway.
I wanted to tell you, since you're talking about this light formation, that about 21 years ago, in August, I think it was 76, over Bellingham Bay, I saw nine tiny white lights in a V formation pointed toward Bellingham, which would be due southeast.
And I went out on my balcony and looked at them, and they were silent.
They were disconnected, and they were about 1,1200 feet from where did anybody in the city of Bellingham raise any questions or ask for an investigation?
Francis, you know, the phones are lit up here, and I could probably sit here and take calls from Phoenix and the area and the people who saw it from now until I go off there at 4 o'clock in the morning.
But I think it is sufficient to already say, obviously, a lot more than five people saw it.
Zillions of people saw it.
unidentified
And if I could ask the people that wanted to call in if they could call my office, it would be real helpful.
And they're keeping track for me.
And I've taken a lot of calls at home, 37 last Saturday, to be exact.
But this way, it's documented in my office, and that would be very helpful.
So people who saw this or people who want to at least support the effort to have somebody look into it, which is what I presume you're moving toward now with your request to the Air Force, can support you by calling that number or barring that, calling you at home because you're listed in the directory.
That's true.
unidentified
And I'll try to get back to everybody.
It may take me a little while, but I do eventually get back to everybody.
That's Councilwoman Frances Barwood from Phoenix, where one of the most incredible displays of light or a craft, depending on how you want to look at it, manifested itself over a major population area, Phoenix in March.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May
21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
And I want to repeat the contact information for Frances Barwood.
She is a councilwoman for the city of Phoenix who dared to open her mouth, to just suggest that somebody really ought to investigate whatever this massive thing hanging over a valley with two million people, two million people, was.
And she's catching hell for it.
From the cartoonists and the newspaper people to the mayor to other council people, though she said not too much with that regard, other council people.
And you know how that goes.
So if you are one of the ones in Phoenix who saw these lights, if you are somebody in Phoenix who would like to support her with regard to at least a request for an investigation of what the hell this was, she says she's going to the Air Force now through an Arizona senator, then contact Francis Barwood.
All right, in a moment, on to other things, and we'll just have open lines For the remainder of the night.
Tomorrow night, Terrence McKenna, a person many of you have been requesting, is going to be on the show.
He'll be coming to us from the big island of Hawaii.
The End you All right, a quick look at what's going on.
In Denver, prosecutors wrapped up their case against Timothy McVeigh, and it looks to me to be a very impressive case indeed.
On Wednesday afternoon, the prosecution presented a total of 137 witnesses in 18 days in the Oklahoma bombing trial.
Now, this is a case built on circumstantial evidence, but you can build a case in that manner, and it does appear to be overwhelming circumstantial evidence.
The defense, of course, is going to go to work very hard, or as hard as they can on that, in suggesting, arguing it is only circumstantial evidence.
And here we are talking about the death penalty, and without fingerprints, without really hard evidence, you are about to dispense a man's life.
And I wonder how that jury is going to struggle with that question, don't you?
President Clinton criticized the fashion industry Wednesday, fashion industry, get this, for allegedly projecting a positive image of heroin use.
At a White House conference on drug abuse, President said that those who make and market clothes should not try to glamorize addiction.
The President said heroin is fast becoming the drug of choice, and part of this, he said, has to do with the images that are finding their way to our young people.
Some call it the heroin chick approach to marketing, in which models strike poses that make them appear stylishly strung out on drugs.
You know, I've got to wonder about that a little bit.
How, in God's name, is a person stylishly strung out on drugs?
I don't see that.
When I see models on the runway, and you know, CNN does a lot of fashion shows, and yes, the women seem emaciated to me.
But I do not translate in my mind that emaciated model look, and you know what I'm talking about, to heroin use.
Do you?
U.S. lawmakers are pressuring the Air Force to grant the first woman B-52 bomber pilot an honorable discharge rather than court-martial her on charges, including adultery.
Several congresswomen at the Washington News Conference called on the Air Force to drop the charges against Flynn.
Air Force is weighing Lieutenant Kelly Flynn's demand that she receive an honorable discharge upon her resignation.
Air Force has delayed Flynn's court-martial, while Air Force Secretary Sheila Windahl considers the resignation request.
Now, yesterday morning I made at the end of the program an error, and not a lot of you would have heard it, but I will repeat it.
I said when I was in the Air Force, and I was an airman in the Air Force, there were very strict laws regarding fraternization.
In other words, somebody of enlisted rank was not to be dating or betting somebody of officer rank.
And toward the end of the show, a man from Idaho, Bob, called and said, hey, Art, what were your parents?
He said, were they both commissioned?
And I responded, there were just a few seconds left.
I said, yes.
And then I immediately thought, oh, my God, no, they weren't.
Now, my parents were indeed separated by that barrier.
Now, I'm not sure in 1944 or 45 if the same non-fraternization rules existed.
But I realized I made a mistake.
My mother was a drill instructor at Camp Lejeune, which is where I was born in North Carolina.
And my dad was an officer, both of them in the Marine Corps.
So it occurred to me that in my formation, there must have been some fraternization.
Or prior to my formulation, there must have been some fraternization.
And so I was entirely wrong about that.
What I don't know, though, is what the UCMJ suggested with regard to fraternization at that time.
So, you know, I've got to ask my mom about that.
If I'd had time today, I would have called.
With regard to the Telly Flynn case, the Lieutenant Flynn case, I originally thought that, frankly, that Lieutenant Flynn deserved better treatment.
And I know this is true.
Look, I know it's true.
16 Minutes even did a little segment on it, and they asked the right question, and that was, come on.
You know damn well a lot of B-52 pilots have been messing about with married women, have been called on it, and that the whole thing has been swept under the good old boys network kind of deal, right?
Sure, that's true.
I believe it.
I know it.
And when that was the only story, and Lieutenant Flynn was saying she had been lied to, she had been lied to, and that this man had told her that he was separated.
At that point, I thought that she should then be treated, and they were making a big case out of this, and just persecuting a woman in a way they would never persecute a man, or rarely, unless there was something else going on.
However, now her ex-lover, I presume ex, has been talking, and as has his wife, or is it ex-wife?
I really don't know, but both of them have been saying, in essence, that Lieutenant Flynn lied and that she came over to their house and had dinner and all that kind of thing.
So now, if Lieutenant Flynn told a series of lies with regard to this, then you've got a different situation.
And if that really is the case, then perhaps a court-martial should proceed.
So I have mixed feelings as I find out more about this case.
And I wanted to tell you that even with regard to my own parents, I've got to sit down and think about it because I don't know.
I ought to call my mom, really, and ask her what the UCMJ said at that time about fraternization.
Am I, in fact, the product of fraternization?
I probably am.
I mean, surely I am.
The only question is what the UCMJ said about it at that time.
Here's a facts on the subject.
Dear Art and the rest of the intelligent portion of the American population.
Doesn't it worry anyone, even a little bit, that First Lieutenant Kelly Flynn, a single woman, is charged with adultery instead of alienation of affection, while the married man involved in the same sordid affair is looked upon as completely innocent?
Hasn't anyone figured out something is wrong with this little slice of juicy news?
Worse yet, this selfsame innocent married man and his wife strongly oppose giving Lieutenant Flynn an honorable discharge.
Are people involved in this kind of thing considered innocent merely by virtue of expressing outrage and indignity?
Who's screwing who here?
Why isn't this guy's wife upset at him?
Lieutenant Flynn isn't married, but all eyes have been diverted from anyone else.
Why?
Rich in Texarkana, Texas.
And I do agree, Rich, the way this story has developed smacks of what the press has been doing lately.
And I'm saddened by it.
Whether it's our friend Mr. Rosenthal back in the Washington AP Bureau or any other major reporter, it seems to me that once the press gloms onto a story, Woman, B-52 Pilot, Adultery, then woe is anybody who gets in the way of this angle of the story that the press wants to tell.
And I'm tiring of it.
I really am tiring of it.
I know that we live in a supposed free society, but if our supposed responsible press is unwilling to report the facts, and they're going to stick to their story the way they want to tell it no matter what,
then the meaning of free press becomes diluted, severely diluted, to the point where news and editorial comment are mixed to a no longer discernible point.
Are you all following me now?
I've had two recent examples of that on my own, and I really see that same sort of thing going on here and now.
It's kind of a sad thing, isn't it?
And here's this.
While I must agree, your subject of the Phoenix UFO sightings certainly makes interesting conversation for your audience.
Isn't this just doing a verbal dance around the real concerns lurking in the shadows of this issue?
The questions and concerns emerging seem to mask a rapidly spreading fear that our great American government can no longer be trusted about anything.
In view of this obvious situation, our questions and concerns amount to little more than whimpering in the scary dark.
Perhaps it would be far more American, nay, far more human, to simply take charge of our government and demand en masse an explanation, tax revolt, whatever it takes, before we all collapse in confused cowardice.
That is from Lahaina in Maui, Hawaii.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, this is Patrick in Boise, Idaho, listening on KIDO.
I screen when I have a guest so that I know it's relevant, but when it's open lines, I don't even screen.
unidentified
Yeah, I know that.
And second of all, about the first two hours last night.
I'm an avid horror and science fiction film buff, and just this is another thing that leads me to believe that we're just one step closer to Tuesday being Soil and Green Day, you know?
If food production on Earth, because of climactic change or ozone UV radiation increase or whatever other reason one can imagine, would suddenly be reduced, I think a lot of horrible things would happen that are better not contemplated.
unidentified
Yeah, that's true.
I always consider that probably the most horrifying film I've ever seen because it's so possible.
I don't understand how people can take the view that it's because she's a lieutenant colonel and a pilot that, and a female, that's what they're going for.
A first lieutenant.
She is, she being a...
Okay.
Her being an officer, she took an oath to obey the orders above her and to obey the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
All right, but bottom lines are rarely black and or white.
And, you know, here's a truth for you to think about, okay?
A lot of male B-52 pilots, F-16 pilots, F-14 pilots, F-15 pilots, they've been out.
Look, these are jocks, you know.
They're very special people.
And a lot of them will bed down anything that moves and wears a skirt.
And there have been a lot of, I'm telling you the truth here, whether you want to hear it or not, there have been a lot of instances in which they've been called on screwing around because they're hot dogs.
That's just what they are.
In the air and on the ground.
And frankly, a lot of it has been allowed to slide.
So, you know, if that's all that was going on, then I don't think she's getting equal treatment.
unidentified
She's not getting equal treatment if that's been going on, but the command knew about what was going on and gave her an order to cease and assist.
And so all she wanted to do, and in breaking that order, she had to figure out a way to go back and say, it's over.
You got to move out.
And that's all she did.
As far as I know.
unidentified
The only thing I see is if this was a lower-ranking individual, an enlisted man, who was just an airman or was another posting, I don't think it would have gotten the news media that it did because she is a female pilot.
I agree with you, and that is not equal treatment.
Thank you.
On the other side of the coin, if she repeatedly lied to the investigators, then you've got something else.
So I have very mixed emotions about this.
In fact, I'll tell you my own story about it.
I suppose I will.
I've got no reason not to.
When I lived in Japan, I lived in Japan for a decade.
Part of that time actually on Okinawa was then not Japan.
I lived off base with a Japanese girl.
And I was brought before my captain and told that I had to stop doing that.
I had to stop cohabitating, which is what they called it then.
And I did not stop.
And I must tell you that this practice, though it was not a military member, obviously, it was a Japanese national, Kanoma National at the time, this is, I mean, it's so common in the military service as to be hardly worth discussing.
And it's generally handled among men.
And I am a little bit suspicious that Lieutenant Flynn is a different case because she is a woman.
And yet I temper that with the late news I have that she lied.
If she specifically lied to investigators, then maybe a court-martial is appropriate.
I just don't know.
It's a tough case.
It's really a tough case.
And I think just about everybody out there is kind of suspicious that it involves a woman.
So anyway, there you are.
I wonder what you think.
I'm sure you've got a view.
Everybody seems to be talking about it.
What do you think the Air Force is going to do?
Proceed with court-martial?
Or simply allow her to leave quietly with an honorable discharge?
unidentified
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast AM from May
21st, 1997.
Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Preview Radio Networks presents Part Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
Well, I'm flying around here like crazy this morning.
Art Francis, referring to the councilwoman in Arizona, Francis is asking the Air Force the wrong question.
She should ask the Air Force to, quote, release the results of their investigation, end quote.
You can bet the occurrences over Arizona did not go unnoticed by them.
That's Bill in Fairfield, California.
And Bill, you know what?
I agree with you.
If the Air Force did not investigate this, a major, major, major item, craft, whatever it is, in the skies over Phoenix, then it seems to me they're derelict in their duty.
If they are not there to protect our skies and the sovereignty of our airspace, then what are they good for?
Maybe she should submit a freedom of information request regarding the incident at Phoenix.
Maybe that's another way to go.
I'm getting really sick of all of this.
I mean, a little straight talk would sure be nice regarding all of this, wouldn't it?
Anyway, we'll get back to your phone calls in just a moment.
From Terry in Milpitas, California, some straight thinking, I guess.
Two possible scenarios aren't with regard to Phoenix.
One, these craft belong to a foreign government.
They are not ours.
We are powerless against them.
Every now and then, they fly around just to tweak the noses of government officials here who are forced into a frenzy of denial.
This just might explain a few crazy things that government people are doing these days, but would not explain much about local officials.
Or, two, the craft really are extraterrestrial, and all those officials who are nonchalant about it are all themselves aliens or humans who have been cloned or otherwise co-opted by the aliens.
Well, I would go for number one, except that I wouldn't imagine it to be a foreign government.
I would imagine it to be my own.
The puzzle for me is why our own government would choose to fly something in its secret arsenal over a major metropolitan area, two million people.
And that's a lot of people to look up and see something of this magnitude.
I mean, that's a lot of people.
All right, listen, tomorrow night, Terrence McKenna is going to be here, and a lot of people have been waiting for Terrence.
We're going to be talking about time, the nature of time, and a lot of very interesting things.
And then Friday night, Saturday morning, we are going to interview Victor and follow it with an interview with Sean David Morton.
And Sean has been instrumental in seeing to it that we got a world-exclusive photograph on the website right now, the second photograph of the alleged interrogation at Area 51 of an alien being.
In this photograph, you will see, though his face has been erased, presumably to protect the innocent, a doctor probing the mouth of this alien.
It's a bizarre picture.
It cannot be seen anywhere else right now.
It's on my website.
Take a look before you hear this interview with Victor.
Victor is the guy who took the video.
Victor is going to be using a voice changer to protect his own identity, and he'll be here at midnight Pacific time.
Well, see, prior to World War II, my husband in high school was in the ROTC program.
Well, nationwide, everybody in the ROTC, the young men, were encouraged, you know, to take it serious, get their training, and go into the military, you know, and fight, you know, help our country win the war that was coming on that was prior to it.
And frequently in the U.S. military, when you volunteer, which is why people in the military are roundly told not to volunteer for things, they find themselves enshrouded in something they did not expect nor do not want.
That's fairly common in the military as well.
You've got to be a very special kind of person to be in the military in the first place.
That would be a lesser disciplinary measure in which right could be taken.
unidentified
Yeah, if anybody else has heard of that, you know, it's just been bugging me to death.
I couldn't sleep tonight.
I was in the Air Force, and when I came back from overseas, I made a reference to a new female that had just come in the Air Force, and I said the word babe.
I said, hey, babe, shut the trunk.
You know, she was walking off to the post because she had shut the trunk and I couldn't drive the car off.
Well, just that little escapade there cost me $150, suspended bust.
It took my weapon away from me for six months and took my driver's license away from me.
And I didn't get all that reinstated until a month before I got out of service.
I'm just saying that there are casualties of war, so to speak, being in New York and in the fat lane.
That's all I meant.
But about Phoenix, I just wanted to say that that really is pretty amazing to have such a large amount of people see something like that, and you don't hear it in the main news media.
Now, let's you and I clash, because I happen to agree with Francis.
In other words, here you had a piece of art, and I'll put that in quotes, that came and was done at taxpayer expense and stood in a public building.
Now, every year at Christmas, when we've got some sort of display in front of a public building, the ACLU or somebody else comes along and files endless bitches until it is removed from public property.
Okay, so if you can do that based on the fact that it's public property, not private, then why does the same argument not apply to the flag?
unidentified
I don't necessarily agree with either argument.
I just don't believe in censorship.
Well, I do think this.
If you're going to wipe out that one exhibit which offends because it's taxpayer funding, then you'll have to close down the entire exhibit.
okay i agree with her in so far as she's saying it's taxpayer funded and therefore if it offends of a great majority of the taxpayers and it should not appear You've got the NEA, and they fund a lot of stuff that people object to.
Well, okay, so then I take you back then to Christmas.
A cross on a mountain, a nativity scene on public property.
And I know that to remain consistent, you're probably going to tell me that it ought to be allowed on public property, but I'll bet you you've been one of the ones arguing it ought to be removed if you're absolutely honest.
unidentified
No, I'd be honest with you, Art.
You know, sometimes I just look at things like that and I say, you know, it's kind of pretty.
I don't have to necessarily read into it as a religious symbol.
it's just a series of lights.
And speaking of a series of lights...
I've got to get in on that before I leave you, buddy.
Well, I heard from person after person as I knew I would.
Now, as much as you may disagree with Francis with regard to the flag display, how do you feel about her basic ridicule for simply requesting an investigation so we can know what that was that hung over the city?
And they showed actual footage along with simulated footage.
And I was not aware that we have built a machine that can leave the Earth's atmosphere, and I had no idea that upon re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, that is not unlike going a trip through hell.
Sir, I would say that if the Air Force is not concerned about security over our major population centers, then somebody needs to sit down and write them a new job description.
Somebody sent me a fax a little while ago and said that Sacramento Television ran a piece about me.
Now, indeed, two very nice gentlemen from Sacramento Television were here about a week ago and were in studio and they interviewed me.
They took a lot of video of me doing the program and they interviewed my wife.
And I have no idea, no idea what my wife said.
And I got a fax earlier tonight saying, you know, I saw you and your wife on Sacramento TV TonightArt and really enjoyed it.
But I had no warning the piece was going to run when it did, and I don't know what it was.
So would you please for a moment cooperate with me and try and let me get a call from Sacramento on one of two lines.
I want to talk to somebody who saw the piece and can tell me about it.
Would anybody in Sacramento be willing to do that?
Let me open two separate lines.
No, make it three for Sacramento.
And everybody else hold off for a minute.
I would like to know exactly what they had on the air.
I would really like to know.
You know, it's funny.
You do these things, and then you hear they run, and you don't know what they did.
Would everybody else hold off for just a couple of minutes till I get a call from Sacramento and somebody can tell me exactly what it is they ran if you happen to catch it in Sacramento?
Again, toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
West of the Rockies.
Oops, you would have been on the air.
I see you dumped out when you realized you weren't in Sacramento.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi.
The only thing I know about this Sacramento thing is my sister took a teddy bear.
She threw the thing at me, hit me in the head, and said, you listen to this guy.
And I said, yes, I've been telling you about him for over a year.
Well, first of all, I just want to say this whole thing about pet foods, it's so what?
I mean, it's just meat, and if you're going to throw it in there in the stew, they're just dumb animals anyway, and especially those evil, filthy cats.
They would be cannibalizing humans if they could get their tiger paws on this.
If you ever see what happens in the wild, especially with that berserker tiger that killed that trainer in front of all those people, you know that they're filthy, vicious, devil animals, and you, you, they're perfect for you and your show, but as far as I'm concerned, they could melt them all down, and I don't really care.
Oh, so now you're saying that cats are evil, is that right?
unidentified
Well, inherently, that's correct.
No!
All right, now listen.
And another thing is about this adultery, that horrible hussy slut going around defaming our military should not get out of this, she should not be able to wiggle out of this her little ways.
You know, she should be tried the way a man is tried and punished like a man.
If she wants to play like a man, if she can't take it, then she should be, you know, it's another sign of how they're infiltrating and demoralizing our military.
Take away our guns so they can send us in just like it happened in Chinaman's Square, and they can roll over us with the tanks and just destroy us, and you're just helping facilitate that.
Our government is a beautiful thing, and people like you and Tim McVay who want to tear down our government should just, should just, you should not be on the airway.
You've seen way too much Star Trek, and you're probably smoking Reaper, and you're out of your mind with all this craziness, and you're just really going over the edge.
Okay, well, I'll go down to one of the paragraphs.
It says, such microphone titans as Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, and Larry King continue to flourish.
But the buzz these days is more likely to be about Dr. Laura's advice on sexual responsibility or Art Bell, a lone wolf, broadcasting from the desert outside Las Vegas.
And the answer is, politics is part of life, but it's only part of life.
It's not all of life.
And when you look at talk radio, pretty much it's treated as though it's the only thing there is in life, you know, by most of the talk show hosts.
And I simply figured out that was no longer true a couple of years ago and stopped doing it.
If talk radio is going to be really interesting for the people to listen to, it's got to be some sort of reflection of real life.
And frankly, right now, what they're doing in Washington, D.C. is hardly even relevant to everyday life.
Hardly even relevant to everyday life.
So to sit here and concoct a discussion about a budget that ain't real, politicians that are crooked, and I don't use that term lightly, crooked, politicians who have been fined and the manner in which they will pay that fine, or any other myriad of things that they talk about, simply not relevant.
And if talk radio persists in, I was actually invited to be the keynote speaker at a convention.
You know, I don't do that kind of thing, so I turned it down, politely turned it down, a big talk radio convention.
But had I gone, I'd have been in terrible trouble because I would have lectured them on this subject.
Literally lectured them.
They're making a mistake.
And for all those who want to take shots at me for doing something a little different, find who cares.
Take your shots.
Be my guest.
I've got a good thick skin.
It's had a chance to develop over many, many years.
I don't care.
And people take shots at me every single day.
But given an opportunity to lecture people in my own field, or to talk to people in my own field, I would have explained this to them, and I know they would not have wanted to hear it.
So I thought about it and thought better of it and decided not to.
It's just, I mean, think yourself, folks.
Other than a few really devoted political junkies, how many hours every day do you spend talking about politics with your wife, your children, the people you work with, whatever?
How many hours?
Oh, I bet you can count it in minutes, or maybe not at all.
So, there's lots of other things in life that are interesting.
And whatever they are, we do them when they come up.
Well, this little kitten, I haven't seen it yet, but it's a gray tiger and has white feet.
And it has its own kitty door to come in and out.
And the minister told me the other day that they had been feeding them inside the church, but they had to quit doing that because the coons come in his little kitty door and eat his food.
The V-A-N-U-A-T-U Islands, a 6.4, 6.1 in southern India.
That might be very serious.
That word just in, and we'll have to see how it develops.
So a couple of pretty big earthquakes, again, coinciding with a very full moon up there, as you know.
All right, back now to Sacramento.
Thank you for hanging in there, sir.
No problem.
So they ran a TV thing on me there in Sacramento.
What was the angle?
unidentified
Really, they just kind of talked about you, you know, how you like to take callers and explore, you know, the unknown, you know, Bigfoot and UFOs and stuff.
And I'm getting a little frustrated with the whole thing.
That's why I had this very nice city council member on from Phoenix earlier.
People like that are not just doing this for attention.
This woman is getting clobbered.
She's asking legitimate questions about a craft that hovered above a major U.S. city with 2 million people in the area for a substantial amount of time, and they're laughing at her.
I mean, why do we get a response to a legitimate question?
I mean, she is one of nine people who are on the city council of Phoenix.
Thousands of people, not five, saw this.
It was captured on videotape.
It ran on national news.
It ran in Phoenix.
Blah, blah, blah.
It was real.
Whatever it was, it was real.
A real something.
And a request for an investigation of a real something brings derisive laughter.
And that makes me angry.
So I, you know, frankly, I hope a lot of people call her up and give her support.
I really do.
I hope a lot of you call her up and give her support, particularly those of you who saw it and also feel that legitimate questions should not be poo-pooed and that people should not suffer politically simply because they ask questions.
And this poor city council lady, all she did was go to the city council and ask that there be some sort of investigation.
And, you know, the usual has happened to her.
unidentified
Right.
Now, see, that amazes me, because if as many people supposedly have seen it, excuse me, and have the proof, why is this so much of a supposed denial, we'll say?
I'm not sure it's exactly a denial because they can't deny what's captured on film.
What they're saying is the city is saying we don't have the facilities to investigate that.
We don't investigate that kind of thing.
We can't do it.
They're saying the Air Force ought to do it.
The Air Force is saying, we don't investigate that kind of thing.
And I'm sitting here thinking, well, if the city fathers of a city that size don't care that something that big is hovering over them, that nobody knows what it is, then what good are they?
And if the Air Force, who is supposed to be protecting our skies and our national security, isn't concerned about something that big hovering over a major U.S. city's airspace, then what good are they?
unidentified
Well, it depends on what you consider a national security.
And I have a friend that we listen to you all the time.
And we debate this back and forth.
I have a friend of mine named Brian, and I'm Morris from Factoria.
And the reason why I don't think it's really a national security issue is because I think they are our own ships that supposedly are so far advanced in technology.
I mean that's the theory that him and I bounce back and forth.
If they are that, then you would think at the very, very least, if they had these ships, they would not hover them over a two million area of population.
They would be somewhat more discreet and go out into the middle of the desert where I The best kept secret sometimes is right in front of your face.
Here is a statement attributed to Walter Cronkite from The New American, May 12, 1997.
I don't know if this is true, but supposedly it came from the New American, Walter Cronkite.
If we are to avoid a nuclear World War II, quote, a system of world order, preferably a system of world government, is mandatory, declares Walter Cronkite in his recent book, A Reporter's Life.
That proud nations someday will see the light and for the common good and their own survival yield up their precious sovereignty just as America's 13 colonies did two centuries ago.
When we finally come to our senses and establish a world executive and parliament of nations, thanks to the Nuremberg precedent, we will already have in place the fundamentals for the third branch of government, the judiciary.
And I kind of kept on trying to meditate, but I couldn't meditate because I started giggling.
And I was so, because they won't come there, they're not here that much in town.
And it was the most beautiful owl.
And I went to the window and I just looked at it, and it just stayed there.
It didn't move or anything.
Well, about three or four weeks ago on your show, it surprised me because someone on your radio state, on your, I don't remember who it was, popped up about owls.
And I've got this wild cat of mine called Comet, and Comet is still pretty much a wild thing.
But I can sit calmly by Comet and meditate and try and communicate with him.
And even without touching him, he will start purring.
And I just darn well know that I am in some form of communication.
I can noticeably see him Relax, his ears come forward, his muscles relax.
I just know it.
I mean, I just know it.
People will think I'm crazy, and I don't care.
unidentified
Oh, I agree 100% with you.
The other thing I wanted to be on a more serious note: Art, I haven't been able to listen to you all the time because I honestly can't stay awake all night.
Have anybody been calling or saying anything about the aura of the planet?
You know how we have auras and all plant life has auras?