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May 21, 1997 - Art Bell
02:45:00
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Phoenix Lights
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Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across all these many time zones.
From the exotic Tahitian and Hawaiian island chain in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, all the way out into the Virgin Islands, south into South America, north To the pole and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning everybody, I'm Art Feld.
Great to be here.
Well, what an interesting program we have coming up for you this morning.
My guest, right out of the chute here, is going to be Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
And oh my, what a story it is from Phoenix.
So, we will talk about all of that with Councilwoman Barwood in a moment.
All right, most of the listeners of this program are very, very well aware of the incredible sightings over the city
of Phoenix recently.
All right.
As a matter of fact, we had a report, a rather detailed, lengthy report from Peter Davenport At the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
Peter, if you're out there, give me a call now and we'll arrange to get you on.
I shouldn't call Peter earlier, but let me read you an article as a matter of introduction here from the Arizona Republic.
That's the big paper in Phoenix.
By Chris Fiscus, it looks like.
Phoenix may have opened an X-file on recent UFO sightings over the city, but don't expect it to confirm the existence of Arizona-bound extraterrestrials.
Councilwoman Frances Irma Barwood recently asked city staff to look into reports of bright lights in the city's March skies.
The staff's finding, the city does not have an Air Force, therefore There isn't much to tell.
Since, uh, this is a quote, Since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate source of light such as those that were reported, we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters.
A three-paragraph report to Barwood states.
Hmm.
Luke Air Force Base officials, however, said they do not plan to investigate.
The mystery began on a March night when calls began flooding into Luke, the National Weather Service, the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
Callers reported bright lights in the form of a boomerang, with lights described as red-orange, red, white, or bluish-white.
The calls came from Paulden, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Dewey, Chino Valley and other cities, including Phoenix, Glendale, and the East Valley.
But the report from the City of Phoenix staff says there were fewer than five contacts.
Concerned residents, not aliens, to the police department reporting on or asking about these mysterious lights.
A check with the city's aviation department also turned up little except a few calls.
And the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, did not report anything unusual.
Barwood said she isn't surprised by the city's ultra-brief inquiry, saying she expected the staff to brush aside the issue.
Is that not ridiculous, she asked.
I thought they probably would say we're not going to investigate, which is basically what they said.
It's still amazing to me that no one seems to be all that concerned.
There definitely was something there.
As to what it was, I don't have a clue.
I'm kind of an open-minded skeptic.
Barwood said she has received 50 calls.
Not 5, but 50.
They all described the same thing, she said.
The callers all reported something that was huge and made no noise.
This does not mean it is something out of this world, she said.
At the very least, you'd think people would want to know what was flying over their homes.
What if it would have crashed?
I personally don't think it was extraterrestrial.
I think it was military, on the other hand.
If it is something from another world, Arwood said, I want to see it.
She also hears the Francis C's Little Green Men talk and the derisive laughter running through City Hall.
I know that Skippy and Scott Phelps, Phoenix Mayor Skip Rims, I believe it is, and his spokesman are having a field day over there, she said.
Doesn't take much to make little minds work hard.
Hmm.
Barwood still doesn't understand why such a fuss was made when she Asked the city staff to look into the matter.
The city should get to the bottom of what exactly was flying around the city skies that night, says she.
It could have done damage to antennas or something.
And a Mr. Miller sent me a fax saying, Dear Art, seldom does one read about any elected official, for that matter, who is willing to acknowledge Even the possibility of the existence of UFOs.
To those of us fortunate enough to know Frances Barwood, the accompanying article, the one I just read, will come as no surprise.
And he suggested I contact Frances Barwood, who is indeed a city councilman in the city of Phoenix.
And here she is.
Frances, welcome to the program.
Hi Art, how are you?
I'm okay.
I think a better question is, how are you?
Oh, I'm just fine.
Francis, you made a fairly caustic comment regarding the way the rest of the City Council and the Mayor appear to be treating this whole thing.
Well, not the rest of the City Council.
Okay.
The Mayor's spokesperson, particularly.
I'm going to have to ask you to get good and close to your phone.
Okay, is that better?
Oh, much better.
Okay.
You know, in the past, it's kind of been a little Oh, of words on different matters.
I ask a lot of hard questions that people don't ask.
Well, let me stop you right there.
Before we get into this specific incident, I would like to know, what is your relationship generally with the rest of the City Council and the Mayor?
In other words, is there some political animosity that preceded this?
It's kind of been things that have happened over the last five and a half years.
I am not afraid to ask questions and I've been told on numerous occasions that it would be better off if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't ask questions.
But there's a lot of things that I find, if it's things that the city did that I don't feel is right, I'll ask the question.
Is it constitutional or do we feel that we are fighting our citizens?
You know, stuff like that.
Because of that, there's been a little friction.
A little friction.
But the rest of the city council, I would say that they're all really good and we all try to maintain a professional attitude when we're doing our job.
At times.
What got you, Frances, to the City Council?
What got you in politics and motivated to begin doing things and become involved?
I kind of backed into it.
Way back in 1985 or 6, I was on a transportation subcommittee because of a road that was coming through.
It was a freeway.
And I found out after I had bought a house that the freeway was going to take a couple of feet of my front yard.
Nobody would give me an answer so I kept asking more and more questions and I was given the run around and I ended up on this transportation committee and from there was appointed to a larger committee which was the Squaw Peak Extension Advisory Committee and the mayor that appointed me at the time probably regrets it to this day but made me think of well do you work against or do you work with and I felt that if I I found Citi very interesting, and I decided that I would get more involved with Citi things.
And after my youngest child was 17, I ran for City Council and won.
And won.
I was the only woman.
And Frances, on what issue, in other words, what do you think accounted for your victory?
Why do you think you won?
Well, there were a lot of things.
I don't have a problem with telling people when they ask a question exactly where I stand on anything.
I've always been that way.
I don't see why not.
You either are what you are or you have to make up so many things to cover up what you pretend to be that you end up really making it up.
That's right.
We can see that in higher up government a lot of times.
Everybody that's ever asked me anything, they'll get an honest answer.
I don't do the, gee, I don't know, I'll have to look into it type thing.
Now, is it reciprocal?
In other words, when you ask questions either across of other city council members or of the mayor, do you get the kind of straight answers that you dish out to your constituents?
That's a difficult question.
Feel free not to answer any one that I ask you.
I'll end up probably with a little figure with stick pins in it tomorrow.
I sometimes get the run around and I realize that people have their jobs to do and they try to do them as best they can.
Sometimes that means maybe not saying everything because if the public knew everything they'd Maybe upset with something.
I feel that if everything is out there, nothing can come back and bite you.
I feel the same way.
Exactly the same way.
And if it does, at least you've been righteously bitten and you can walk away with your head held high.
Well, let me tell you the rest of the story.
I'm under attack of a recall.
It didn't have anything to do with this thing, but it was because of a zoning case and they accused the city of Hiding things and I said, no, the city wouldn't do that.
And you know, we, when we voted on it, there was no opposition.
And I really, I truly believe that until I was called as a witness for a group that was suing the city on another issue.
And during the time I was giving a deposition, they had asked me a particular question and I said, Oh no, because we didn't know about that.
And, you know, mid 95 and they put a letter in front of me that was from our mayor.
To the head of this company, back four months before we voted on it, saying exactly where it was going to go and everything.
And not CC to anybody.
It was a personal letter.
And they pulled it out of the, you know, the truth and open law, whatever it is.
And at that point, I was furious.
And that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.
I just felt, you know, that was extremely dishonest on the mayor's part.
He could have said right at the beginning, well yes, I knew about this ahead of time, but he didn't.
So in other words, you're under recall because you voted affirmatively without the knowledge of this letter, is that correct?
That's correct.
Surely your constituents understand, or do they not?
Or are they just now hearing?
In other words, how big an issue has this been in Phoenix?
Do the people understand the chronology of how it occurred?
Some of them do, because it appeared in what they kind of call a tabloid-type paper, which is the New Times.
And, you know, some people tend to disregard that, but a portion of it is, you know, heavy political things.
Sure.
And there was an article that this reporter did, Tony Ortega, and, you know, he found out about this letter because I was so furious I told someone who told someone who told him, and then he called me.
And they did quite a good article on it, and the title of it was, I've been had.
And some of the people who are leading this opposition Got that article and they called me and they said, you know, well, we felt that it wasn't you, but, you know, are you sure you didn't know about that?
And I said, there'd be no way that I could know about it.
And also when they went down there to pull all the information about this particular area and case, they did not get that letter.
I take it there are recall efforts against all of those who voted affirmatively?
No.
And it was unanimous.
It was just against me.
Well, wait a minute now.
Wait a minute now.
That I don't understand.
Or is it just because it affected the area you represent?
That is correct.
It's in our village core right north of me.
I see.
Well, so you've already got some pretty tough fights you're fighting.
Well, and there's a little bit more to that, too.
Some of the people that jumped onto this recall are people that were angry at me for other reasons i am
very pro-gun for law abiding citizens
so am I i make no bones about it i have a concealed weapons permit
but i've carried a gun for thirty two years
uh... i'm also a very strong conservative and constitutionalist and
everybody that knows me knows this i also have a concealed permit francis i
I feel exactly as you do.
I think even beyond the Constitution that we have a God-given right to protect ourselves against those who would do lethal force against us.
We have the right to use the same kind of weapon they're going to try to use against us.
Well, and look at the cities that have total gun control.
They're the ones with the highest crime.
Absolutely.
We know that it doesn't work because the crooks know That they're sitting prey.
As a matter of interest, and we will finally get to this UFO business, folks, but as a matter of interest, what is the political wave right now in Arizona, Phoenix, specifically regarding gun control?
Are you on the wrong side of that argument, as far as a lot of people are concerned?
Well, in some parts of the city, and you know, it was another thing that the mayor and I were on different sides on, even though he is a Republican.
He voted for the meltdown of guns and stopping the police auctions.
The meltdown of guns?
Yeah, it's an unbelievable thing.
The meltdown of guns and making works of art out of them.
Works of art?
So I said, what they should do is make a big gun, you know.
One great big gun out of a lot of little ones, huh?
Yeah, so it's been, you know, it's kind of been just a total opposite Philosophy and ideology, and I think that's been part of the problem.
But my area is, I would say, mostly conservative.
But, you know, there's other areas that are not.
Right.
And there's a lot of people that feel that, you know, we need more laws and we need government to protect us.
And, you know, and I feel just the opposite.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
So, you know, I am not shy.
It causes me some grief from time to time, but I sleep well.
I understand, and that's really what counts in the end.
You've got to be able to sleep well.
I feel exactly the same way.
I would describe myself as a fiscal conservative, politically somewhat of a mixture, with an awful lot of libertarian thrown in.
That's kind of where I'm at, and that's what gets me in some trouble too.
Yeah, I understand.
So anyway, what day in March was it that all of this began to manifest itself over the Phoenix skies?
Arizona, really.
First of all, let me tell you that I did not see it.
And I'm still upset with myself because I was in a meeting.
But apparently it was on March 13th.
It wasn't Thursday.
And apparently it was somewhere between 8.30 and 9.30.
And I saw it when I got home.
I got home about 20 minutes to 10, and at the 10 o'clock news, they had it on all of the news channels with the videos.
With video, right.
And I looked at it and I go, whoa, incredible.
I didn't realize at the time, to compare it to what was on the ground under it, to realize how big it was, but that came later, I had assumed at the time that There was an investigation going on because it was on all these news channels.
And so I thought, gee, I wish I would have seen it and that was that.
It wasn't until two weeks ago from yesterday that I was on my way to a policy session at 2.30 in the afternoon.
And we have like chambers across the street from City Hall.
Sure.
And as I was walking over there was another council member, this TV crew from Extra.
She jumped out and said, excuse me, but how come nobody from the city will talk to us?
And I said, what are you talking about?
And she said, well, nobody will talk to us.
What do you want to know?
And she said, well, you know, there were the lights that were over Phoenix on March 13th and everyone we've talked to said they don't want to talk about it.
They're not investigating and they're not interested.
And I said, well, I thought it was being investigated.
And she said, no, it wasn't.
So I went into Policy Session, and that's our only televised session, and I, you know, sit down and we get a little blip in the beginning of the session that we're allowed to ask any question on anything.
Alright, I want to hear exactly what you ask, but we're at the bottom of the hour, so hang tight and we'll be back to you.
Absolutely fascinating.
Councilwoman Frances Barwood from Phoenix is my guest.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may 21st 1997
music got a black magic woman
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music You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from May 21st, 1997.
good morning and i would like to invite phoenix to call those of you who
saw the lights and know about this situation
all right we are interviewing of uh... councilwoman francis barwood
in phoenix and uh... where we left off she had gone into i guess a meeting
one in which uh... there is television coverage
and i guess each council person gets to make a short statement or something or another you would just been
confronted by extra cameras
and you said all last so you went in there with television blazing away
and what did you say well i i think uh... that i would have stopped by a tv crew
outside and that they had asked about the lights that appeared over
phoenix on march thirteenth
And apparently nobody is doing an investigation.
So I would like to request that we do the investigation.
And there was silence.
Silence.
And then they said that they would look into it.
Well, that was on a Tuesday.
By the next day, I was told that I should not have asked that question.
It was ridiculous and then by some others that I opened Pandora's box.
Who first told you, and again I've got to ask you to get close to that phone.
Okay.
There you are.
Just stay close to it.
I need to talk louder.
Project kind of like you were in the chambers without a mic.
Okay.
It was a question better not asked.
Another council person?
No, no.
It was a staff member.
A staff member?
And it's because I ask questions and I've done things that get me in a lot of trouble from time to time, but I think that they're the right things.
Yeah, me too.
And one of the things I did that they were very upset with me in the past was we had, I don't know if you know about the flag exhibit that went to the Phoenix Art Museum.
Oh, I do.
And I felt it was degrading, and it was in a city building, and it was at taxpayer's expense, and I felt it shouldn't be there.
And so I opposed it very vocally, and boy was I... That was the American flag.
It was called Old Glory.
In which people had to stand on it to sign something or another?
Yeah.
Is that right?
And they had one flag made out of human skin, and the guy wouldn't tell where he got the skin from.
and then they had uh... some upkeen things made it a plate
and it was just totally it was
definitely degrading our flag and i have a hard
problem with that well i do too francis although uh... on it
i've got a few two ways about it was One, had it been on private property, I really don't support a constitutional amendment to put people in jail for things they do to the flag, because I suppose freedom is not freedom unless it's really free.
But on the other hand, when it's done at the expense of the taxpayer, It's kind of like the prayer in school argument.
Is it not?
In other words, public schools are one thing and the private sector is very much another.
Well, I guess that's where I differ a little bit.
I feel that freedom of religion and separation of church and state means that the government is not going to interfere if we want to pray.
And so I feel a little bit different on that.
And with the flag, you know, they keep saying, well, it's not a taxpayer's expense.
and but it was totally because the funding came from three universities
back east which were all taxpayer right
and the building itself it's owned by the city of phoenix which is the
taxpayers on ground but what the point i was making is for example at christmas
when there is uh... uh... some sort of display on city grounds
uh... they usually uh... order it removed because it is on
public property isn't that true and is it not how they go And yet with this they felt that this was perfectly justified.
I felt it was an embarrassment to the city.
Fortunately I was the only one on the council that felt that way.
I find that incredible.
Well, I got beaten up pretty good about that one.
They did cartoons in the paper and all that, but I still... Did Benson do a cartoon on you?
Isn't that a fact?
Well, we share that in common.
I've been down the Benson Road a few times myself.
I don't have a problem with that, because that's what I believe in, and I feel that I was right, and that's that.
The other thing was, we have a National Memorial Veteran Cemetery here.
And some developers tried to put a road right through the middle of it and kind of underhandedly they went and did a court suit.
They didn't put in the fact that that was a cemetery there and they brought the plans from 1965 and the judge gave them the right to put this road through this what looked like state land but it wasn't.
It was our National Veterans Memorial Cemetery.
So another woman and I went out there and blocked the bulldozers and
You know the veterans were definitely great. I mean they came out there in mass
Unfortunately the city was very upset with me But the city was the one that gave them the permit to go
through there, and they knew I mean They knew that that was a cemetery
Well some of those people from this development group have joined on this recall also, so it's been kind of real
interesting I'm beginning to get the picture.
Yeah.
In other words, this recall may be about a whole lot more than what you originally stated.
In other words, you may be a total thorn in their side.
It was a vehicle for them to use.
The recall was on hold because I am not running for another term.
My term will end at the end of December.
What are you going to do?
Well, I'm either going to be a real person again or I may go for one other office, but then that's it.
But it was on hold because it was kind of ridiculous to have a recall being that there was going to be a regular election and I wasn't running anyway until the Monday after I asked the question and it had appeared in the paper on that Saturday.
Has your experience with politics, Frances, made you cynical?
I've got a sign in my kitchen that says, I love my country but I fear my government.
I think government has gotten too much power and people are too afraid of I have been warned by so many people, like, just watch your back.
One pilot said to me, watch your six.
Well, I didn't know what a six was until another pilot explained it to me.
It's really sad to feel that way, because people are supposed to be the bosses, and somewhere along the line it has totally reversed, but it's reversed all the way to where The city is supposed to be the main power, the state the secondary, and the federal the third, and the people are over all of that, and it's totally reversed, where the federal government is on top of everything, and total power, and over everybody else, and it's just... Frances, I've been warned a million times, too.
Don't talk about this, or don't talk about this.
Don't open this up, or you're going to be history.
And I've ceased caring.
You know, I'm... Me too.
I figure, you know, you just...
To me life is a learning experience and if you're going to be afraid of everything, I mean I've been shot at my front door, not because of this, this happened back a ways, I've had my tires spiked, I've had dog crap thrown all over my driveway, I've I've been, I've had so many death threats that it's, you know, gets to be... Yeah, I've got a nice big file, too.
Yeah, and the thing is, is that... You can't go crawl in a corner.
And you can't, and... Life goes on.
That's right.
Alright, so you went in and you requested they investigate publicly.
You requested that they investigate what occurred in Phoenix, and you got a deathly silence, I guess, and you got people saying you shouldn't be bringing this subject up, and then what?
Well, you know, little odds and ends, little snickers and stuff like that, which I understand that, but, you know, it came out that I asked about UFOs and I never, ever said that.
What I said was, there were these lights that were over Phoenix and traveling very slow and, you know, they're not investigating.
We should look into it.
Now, I would think, you know, being the city, that at least there would be some concern Okay, if this was an airplane and it was, you know, in our airspace, overpopulated area where it shouldn't be, something's wrong here, we have to look into it.
I couldn't agree more.
Now, did they look into it?
What did the Air Force Base say?
Is the article correct?
They said, we just don't know anything about it, we're not investigating, or what?
That's true.
They issued a press release and said it wasn't anything we had anything to do with, and we're not investigating.
And every department that they called, Well, I don't understand it now.
news media called to find out you know it was the same thing including the city
of phoenix but i didn't know that at the time and uh... i just didn't understand it because
i'm kind of inquisitive by nature well i don't understand it now uh...
the air force had something called project blue book that looked into uh...
ufo's uh... many many years ago
and the conclusion uh... was that yes there were a percentage of sightings
that simply could not be explained bought according to the air force
they did not or whatever they were represent a threat to national security
security.
And I have a very hard time with that one.
If something is above our airspace, and in this case, above your city, and it's massive, and it doesn't represent a threat to national security, then what does?
Well, yeah, how do they know?
Exactly.
What does represent a threat to national security?
I mean, I thought the whole idea of the Air Force was to control, maintain control of our airspace.
Now, maybe I'm missing something here.
And what I may be missing is that this craft, or this whatever it was, might have been ours.
It could have been.
When the article appeared in the paper a week ago, Saturday, I wasn't even up yet when I started getting phone calls.
People started calling me from all over the state, to the north, all the way from Prescott and Prescott Valley, and to the west and to the east.
It went from Kingman to Mesa, all the way down to Gila Bend.
Listen, I want to tell you, I had gazillions of faxes and emails and phone calls, and in this article it says, quoting, but the report from the City of Phoenix says, staff, says there were fewer than five contacts to the police department, so the reporting Or even asking about the mysterious lights.
Five calls, Frances.
I can only go by what the report says.
And I would think that because of the description of this, that people were more, they called the TV stations.
And I think they were more curious as to what it was than afraid.
Because, well let me tell you what people described to me.
Sure.
And this is real interesting.
All these people hadn't talked since I asked them if they talked to Sky Watchers or MUFON or the UFO Reporting Center.
They had not.
And some of them did towards the end, but the first ones that called me did not.
And they said they didn't tell anybody because they thought that people would think they were crazy.
And they all said the same thing.
It had three to seven lights.
One person said maybe nine.
They were amber or white.
It was a triangle or boomerang shape.
It was extremely enormous.
They said somewhere the size of a football field up to one mile.
It was at about a thousand to five thousand feet elevation, altitude.
But they all said the same thing.
Absolutely no noise.
And the man that called me from Prescott Valley was outside with some friends and he said that the way they noticed this thing was it had no lights on it.
They were all off.
They noticed because it's a higher altitude up there and it blocked out the stars and he said it was so huge that they just kept watching it and it moved so slow and no noise.
He said we couldn't figure out what the heck was going on.
Alright, now that conflicts with a little bit of what I've heard.
I heard the initial explanation was these were military flares.
Now, there's something else that went on at that night, and that's where a lot of people, I think, got a little confused.
There were lights in a place that we call South Mountain or Estrella, one of those two.
Some people feel that those were flares, but that was much later at night and had nothing to do with this, as far as we can tell.
But flares do not block out the stars.
No.
And there were so many people that actually caught sight of a shape that, you know, there's no doubt to me because of all the phone calls that this was something, to me it was a huge stealth bomber from what they described.
But the pilots that called me and the ex-military, and one very prominent person in Phoenix, They all said the same thing, was that when they first saw it, they thought that it was a plane formation coming.
Right.
And as it got closer, they realized that these lights were on one object.
They didn't move separate from each other.
They were fixed.
And as it got closer yet, I mean, this one guy said, I was a pilot for 27 years, and I have never in my entire life seen anything as huge as this.
So I said, how big would you say it was?
And he said, I would say close to a mile.
A mile.
That sounds like something from Independence Day almost, doesn't it?
Well, and okay, now I have to tell you, I was at a meeting where this guy was totally panicked.
And he said, this is really scary, this is awful, this is like... And I said, listen, if by some chance it did come from somewhere else, And they have the power to get all the way to here, and I'm afraid to fly, so, you know.
And they got here, and they flew over a populated area, and they were so obvious so that, you know, we actually saw them, except I didn't, but, you know, that people actually saw them.
They could have wiped us out in the shot, and they didn't, so they can't be dangerous.
And he goes, oh, okay.
So that's kind of my philosophy.
I am real curious, and I think if it was something that wanted, you know, to do harm, they would have done it.
They would have done it.
They would have done it.
But still, the quest for knowledge alone seems to be getting you in trouble.
I mean, even to ask, and I will agree with you also on this, you never said UFO, you never said spaceship, but I noticed that the Arizona Republic Um, headlines it a CD probe of UFOs is grounded.
Staff tells Councilwoman Phoenix can't investigate UFO sightings.
UFO is plastered all over the article.
I think that it's, you know, the old, um, how do we sell newspapers type thing.
And, you know, I wish that, first of all, the Republic did not even cover it until five days after.
I mean, it was all on all the TV shows.
That's another good question.
A lot of people in Phoenix called me and asked about that.
Yeah, that I still don't understand to this day.
Maybe they were waiting for Benson to finish his cartoon.
I guess.
You know, it's real curious to me.
It's just real curious.
I figure, hey, why not?
Let's look at the whole darn thing and do process of elimination.
And if it is some military thing, well, then the military should say, Hey, listen, it was one of ours.
We're doing some secret stuff.
And I say, OK.
In my whole life, Frances, I've only seen one thing.
It was, guess what?
A triangle.
Several years ago now.
About 150 feet above me.
Totally noiseless.
My wife saw it with me.
We watched it pass above our heads and float across the valley.
Not fly.
Float.
This thing was doing about 30 miles an hour.
That's what they say with this.
Oh, really?
Very slow.
Very slow and utterly quiet.
I mean, out here where I am, you can hear crickets at a quarter mile, and I could hear them as this thing came directly over our head.
No known propulsion system that I'm aware of can do that.
Frances, I want you to hold on because I want to take some calls from Phoenix, alright?
So stay right there, and we'll do a little more after the top of the hour.
My guest is a Phoenix councilwoman named Frances Barwood.
Who appears to be in some trouble for just asking questions about what happened over Phoenix.
If you are one of the five people, you can put that one in quotes, who saw this object, I would very much appreciate a call from you at about this point, and we'll get you on air after the top of the hour.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Costa Costa AM from May 21st, 1997.
Welcome to Costa Costa AM.
Rainier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997.
My guest is Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
She had the guts to ask a few questions that seemed to have her in all kinds of trouble.
Aside from what other political troubles may be looming on the horizon.
She dared to ask about the lights, the massive, massive lights that appeared over the city of Phoenix.
It's a big city, folks.
A couple million people in the Phoenix area.
And so we're talking with her, and there's more to the story.
standby.
Once again, I've got the lines open specifically for Phoenix.
If you saw the lights, if you know about the story, Uh, then we would encourage you to participate.
We're going to be getting to the phones in just a moment.
Now, once again, back to Frances Barwood, a council lady, a councilwoman, I guess, for the city of Phoenix for at least a while longer, huh?
Yeah, that's true.
Now, you mentioned to me before the program something about air traffic controllers.
I had heard that there was no radar acquisition of these at all.
What do you know about that?
That's true, and when Extra did its follow-up story on our Channel 12 out here, they had two flight controllers that were on duty that night, and they asked them, you know, if they picked up anything on radar, and they said, no, absolutely nothing, but they saw it visually.
They saw it, but they picked up nothing on radar.
Right.
And, I mean, they... We're talking about the actual controllers here.
The guys.
I mean, they were on extra.
And I was really surprised because I did not know that they had interviewed them.
So it was like, wow, you know.
But there were people who lived down past the airport.
One man in particular.
He said he was going to go to bed.
It was 830, went to turn off the TV and he looked out his window and he saw what he thought
was a big jumbo jet going to crash.
He grabbed his wife and said, let's get out of here.
They went outside and he said it leveled off and it kept coming and it kept getting, as
it got closer, bigger and bigger and bigger.
It was absolutely humongous and it went over him and he said, absolutely no noise.
This is not like some poor little fellow out in the middle of the desert, where I am here, having some sort of encounter that he cannot explain.
That happens all the time.
It's one person.
But here we're talking about a city.
What is the rough population of Phoenix?
It's around 2 million in the area, isn't it?
It's actually about 1.4.
1.4 million people.
The valley itself, which is the small city surrounding us, is a little over 2 million.
There you are.
So, it was seen in that general area, wasn't it?
In other words, it could have been seen.
If two million people had been out looking up at the sky, two million people could have seen it.
Right.
So, we're not talking about some little trivial incident here, which surprises me with regard to their attitude.
Now, I've got to ask you this, Frances, do you think That they know more than they're telling.
In other words, that the Air Force came to perhaps the mayor or somebody at that level and said, look, it's something we were doing.
We can't talk about it.
We don't want publicity about it, which might account for the Arizona Republic's halting reporting, delayed reporting.
I don't know.
I'm just, you know, stabbing in the dark here at such a large incident over such a big city that The response is a little puzzling.
Well, yeah, and I think, you know, people's imaginations go wild when you don't tell them anything.
Yes, of course.
I think that, you know, people being fairly sensible most of the time, if the military would say, hey, listen, we were doing something really sorry, you know, but quite the opposite.
They issued a press release saying, It wasn't us.
We didn't do it, and we're not going to investigate.
Okay, so, no, but again, going back to my question, do you think it's possible that, in other words, do you, behind the scenes, have the feeling the mayor might know more than he's saying about this, for example?
I honestly don't know, and I didn't see any clue to that.
So I really don't know.
Okay.
Let's talk to a few people, at least five, in Phoenix.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Francis Barwood.
Hello?
How you doing, sir?
All right.
Where are you?
I'm in Phoenix.
All right.
Yeah.
I was at a Clover Nook putt-putt with my little two-year-old son when we saw it.
And what did you see?
We saw huge lights.
Huge lights.
It wasn't just me.
Probably about 60 other people were there.
I just looked up.
60 other people?
Yeah, about 60 that were at the putt-putt.
It's the putt-putt driving range as well.
Uh-huh, so in other words, you were outside.
Obviously, you would see such things.
Oh, yeah.
And how big would you say it was?
It was quite a ways from us, but if I had to guess...
Actually, put it this way, it scared the heck out of us.
Actually, guess at two things.
How high in the sky did it seem?
If you had to guess about that.
I'd guess probably about, um, about 3,000 feet up in the air.
3,000 feet?
Yeah, from where we were.
And, um, you know, you know, this stuff is, it's just been weird here.
And, uh, it's about time somebody in government, I guess, you know, talks about something, at least, you know, poses a question to some of the powers that be.
Because, uh, this is obviously something that's really happening and I don't think it's the military.
If it was the military, um... Well, then the least they could do is say so.
It's a classified project.
Yes, it was us.
Exactly.
I mean, that would be the most reasonable thing to do.
Instead of being, you know, evasive, like, well, they aren't even being evasive.
I said they were, it wasn't them at all.
Even that's puzzling because you would think if the military was doing it, uh, that they would Uh, they would not do it directly over the city of Phoenix, of all places.
I mean, there's a lot of barren land for them to do that kind of thing in.
Certainly.
It's just... All I can say is everybody here that I know is kind of like in denial.
We really don't want to believe it, but it's scaring the heck out of us if it's, you know, if it's a UFO that might, you know...
Explain some of the denial.
People don't want to believe in that kind of stuff.
Could I ask a question?
Yes, go ahead.
Could I ask you, my phone number is in the phone book, could you give me a call?
Sure.
And I'd really like to kind of hear everything that you saw.
Okay.
Really?
I'm keeping track of everybody.
Are you?
Certainly.
Alright.
Caller, thank you, and thank you for the support.
So you really want to hear from people who saw this?
Oh, absolutely.
You're going to get a lot of calls, Frances.
I have gotten a lot of calls, but that's okay because I really feel that, for one thing, people are relieved to talk about it.
They've been afraid to say anything to anybody.
I would say most of my calls, when they call us, we didn't say anything to anybody because we're just so afraid that somebody would laugh at us and think we're crazy.
But just by talking about it, that's one thing.
Get everybody where they were at the time and the angle they saw it at and the group Skywatchers is doing kind of a big map where they're marking all where the people were and where they saw it.
You should know you're not alone, Frances.
There's a congressman named Schiff in New Mexico.
who has run into some brick walls uh... trying to ask questions about what occurred at Roswell uh... so many brick walls that uh... you know he was just doing a casual a request for information and the brick wall was so hard and so thick that he became suspicious and began digging deeper and lo and behold the records of the time in question unfortunately were destroyed In total, it was an amazing story.
So, you're not the only one, but you are a very brave one, because not too many people in government at any level are willing to even open their mouths and ask a question like this.
Well, you know, I don't consider myself brave, because to me, that's the way it should be.
But I'm also a Christian, and somebody said, well, how can you even think that this could be from somewhere else?
And I said, well, I didn't say that, but You know, people are the only ones that limit God to Earth.
He's supposed to be the God of the universe.
Here, here.
And if, you know, he could put us here, why couldn't he put some people other places?
And so, you know, while I've never seen anything and I'm totally skeptical, I do want to see something.
I feel, you know, let's just keep an open mind and look at everything.
I share that view.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
Come to Mesa, Francis.
I'll vote for Mayor for you over there.
So you're in Mesa, huh?
Right.
I saw the lights, and at the time I didn't think anything of them much.
It wasn't seven, ten days later when I saw something on the news, a clip, talking about it.
And I thought, well, that must have been those lights I saw.
But at the time I didn't think anything about it.
The only unusual thing was I didn't hear any noise.
What I thought it was, I stepped outside in the backyard to check out Hellbound for the last, one of the last times, and it was starting to fade away at that time.
In Northwest Sky, where I was looking for the comet, I saw the lights about five to seven, and at the time it appeared to me as National Guard copters, which usually fly on the weekends, which we see all the time, in a formation.
So that's what I thought it was.
The unusual thing for me Was it?
It was at night, which I usually don't see them at night, and there was no noise at all.
But it wasn't odd enough for me to even tell anybody about it.
Let me ask you this, Culler.
Are you surprised by the city's lack of reaction, or muted reaction, to Councilwoman Barwood's request for some sort of investigation?
I am surprised about that, and the only other thing that concerns me Well, now let's think about that for a second.
The United States has now craft that it flies that are not detectable by conventional radar.
i would think a radar would have been something on their screen
at the unusual thing that well now let's think about that for a second but the
united states has now craft that it flies that are not detectable by conventional
radar if we have that
uh... then it's it's equally possible that it was hours or somebody else's
but you've got to imagine somebody who could get here would would have it at
the very least the ability not to be noticed on radar if they wished it to
be so So...
I mean, if we can have that technology, they can, right?
Well, that's true, but I would think... I'm thinking it's probably something of ours.
But I don't know why the government or whoever wouldn't come out and just say, yeah, it's secret, or we're not going to talk about it, instead of just playing dumb about it.
And they were being kind of obvious.
Right, that seems strange.
But I watched it for a good five minutes, like, clear to the north and directly straight line to the south towards Tucson, until it went out the horizon.
I would have thought I'd grab my video camera, you know.
But I didn't even think... Well, apparently lots of people, or at least enough people, did grab video cameras, and there's plenty of footage circulating around.
Although, I must say, after the initial running of the footage, it's like you didn't see it again.
And this is one of the more massive sightings anywhere in a long time, and suddenly the footage kind of disappeared.
From the radar scopes, no pun intended.
Yeah, I never saw any of the video myself to compare to what I saw.
I wish I could have seen some of it.
Contact Frances Barwood.
She needs his support.
I'll do it.
Alright, thank you.
Thank you very much.
And you're actually in the phone book in Phoenix, Frances?
Yes, I am.
That's brave, too.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frances Barwood.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Frances.
Hi, there.
I'm one of the guilty ones that hasn't reported what I saw yet.
Where are you?
I'm in Phoenix.
This is Scott in Phoenix.
Glendale, actually.
I have a pretty dark neighborhood.
I live in the Union Hills, 35th Avenue area, which Frances would be familiar with.
Yes.
Getting ready to watch a Suns game that night.
Suns were doing better.
830 right on the nose, and my wife He's talking on the phone in the backyard.
She says, Come out and look at this.
What is this?
And I look at it and it's a V-shaped formation of light.
About six, I think, is what I saw.
Two were very close together, right at the very nose of the triangle.
And I was baffled.
It looked huge.
And I stand outside quite often and watch the air traffic go back and forth.
I know what's going to Sky Harbor and what's going to the military bases.
That's why she usually asks me, gee, this is something I haven't seen.
What is it?
And I'll usually explain, and this time it was, I don't know what that is.
Can you estimate altitude and size?
I'm not very good at that, but it was, you know, a thousand feet or more.
The lights weren't that bright.
So, I had my binoculars handy.
I was watching Hale-Bopp earlier, also, and grabbed the binoculars, and not only my wife, but my 13-year-old son was outside, and we're all watching this.
I have the binoculars, and I'm trying to find a craft in between the lights.
And I can't see any metal, I can't see anything there, just the same color as the background.
I can't say that I could see stars through it, or... We're moving, for one thing.
The binoculars are moving through the sky trying to look at something.
Sir, was the sky clear enough that you should have been able to see stars?
Oh, yes, it was very clear.
And in March, 830, it was dark enough to see plenty of stars.
But I can't recall seeing any stars through it.
But as I was following it through the path, I couldn't see any craft.
There was no metal or anything there.
And I handed the binoculars to my 13-year-old son, and I said, you look at that.
Can you see anything?
And he looked at it, and the same thing.
He couldn't see anything in between the lights.
And it came from the northwest, floated pretty much right over our house.
made no sound whatsoever and I hear all the craft that go over the house I can
you know eventually you'll hear a sound. This was completely quiet and just looked
like it was heading right through the middle of Phoenix right down towards Sky Harbor. That's exactly the route.
So you have not reported this You didn't get on the phone and call?
No, I just thought, well, this is something kind of strange.
And I did hear your show that night with Peter Davenport.
Right.
And that's when I went, wow, this obviously was really something strange.
Yes.
And followed it a little bit.
I do have to give the Arizona Republic credit, because when they did have an article four or five days later, They pretty much just told the facts.
They didn't fill it with a bunch of the flare thing or anything like that.
Right, the flare story seemed to flare up and then quickly die off.
Yeah, I think it started the next day because of the video.
The only video they had, these things were stationary.
And somebody said, well, the only thing that we know that can do that are the military flares that have the parachutes.
They seem to tend to hold Their position for a while and then disappear.
But that was just making an explanation for the video that really has nothing to do with the fact that this thing floated for miles and miles.
Yes, indeed.
How do you feel about the city's reaction?
Now, I read the piece by The Republic on the Air, and the city's reaction seems to be, we don't want to investigate anything like that.
Um, it seems to be nervous.
It seems to be a nervous reaction.
The only thing I've heard from the mayor, any quote that I, it may not even be a real quote, but it seems that he said there are no UFOs over Phoenix.
And that's where the terminology of UFO gets confused.
People forget it.
It doesn't mean it's something from outer space.
It's just we don't know what it is.
In other words, we don't want any of those things over our city.
We don't want to talk about it.
Well, I'm a little nervous about it being over the city if they don't know what it is.
And obviously nobody seems to want to Check it out, or even talk about it.
Now, who in this case would be our protectors?
You would imagine it would be Luke Air Force Base, wouldn't you?
Exactly.
Uh-huh.
They seemed to be asleep that night.
They don't want to investigate any of those things either.
There was another really strange thing that I thought that happened in my neck of the woods here, and that was about a half an hour after the thing floated by, just an enormous amount of helicopter activity up here.
They were flying north from my house and seemed to be landing someplace.
And one flew right over my house and almost stopped.
Military, sir?
Military or civilian?
I have no idea.
By that time it was about 9 o'clock at night and all I could see were lights.
Well, listen, you too should contact Frances Barwood.
Oh, I definitely will.
I've held off long enough.
Alright, thank you very much, Caller.
Frances, hold on, we'll be right back.
Frances Barwood.
A Phoenix City Councilwoman who dared to speak up about what's going on in her skies is my guest for the moment.
If you're in Phoenix, please give us a call.
I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
This is a teaser for the upcoming episode of Coast to Coast.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood, who had the nerve to simply ask that this massive, massive whatever in the hell it was above Phoenix be investigated.
And she more or less hit a political brick wall.
Are you surprised?
We're sort of holding our lines open as we're able for Phoenix people to call in.
So if you saw it, if you're in Phoenix, please pick any of the numbers that you're able to get through on and give us a call.
We'll get back to Frances Barwood for another 30 minutes in a moment.
Alright, back now to Councilwoman Frances Barwood, Councilwoman for the City of Phoenix.
And I'm curious, Frances, how's the rest of the media, other than the Republic, treated you?
I mean, have you done radio interviews?
Have you talked to people?
What's the deal?
I've done a few.
When anybody asks me, I'll talk to anybody.
So it's been interesting.
When I'm not on a show, I got blasted.
Our Attorney General seems to enjoy poking fun and he has a talk show on Friday afternoons and he really blasted me.
His name is Grant Woods and he gives out what he calls Woody's to whatever he feels like making fun of.
I was nominated by him and it was interesting.
It's such an easy, cheap shot to make.
I take them all the time, but I think, Francis, that, for example, Gallup polls taken recently show that the greater percentage of the American public happens to be on your side now you're being very conservative in the way you're approaching this request for an investigation and i'm i must tell you and uh... whatever his name is uh... should uh... would take this into consideration that more americans than not believe something real is going on and they're not chuckling and it's showing up in every gallup poll
So, you know, some of your colleagues, perhaps, would be wise to read the polls, which politicians normally do, before acting and opening mouth and engaging, you know.
Well, I don't read the polls, so I guess I'm kind of guilty of that myself.
Well, they should, because it may be that a lot of people in Phoenix and around the country simply don't agree with that kind of chuckle dismissal.
That's what I call it.
First Time Caller Line, you are on the air with Francis Barwood.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
Alright, where are you, sir?
I'm in Phoenix.
My name is Kurt.
Yes, Kurt.
Yeah, and I just was absolutely I hear this discussion tonight because I saw this thing in the sky and my first impression was that this was something totally unnatural.
And when I say unnatural, unnatural in the sense that it did not appear to be hovering helicopters or flares or airplanes or anything of that sort.
I was driving in my car at the time My impression was, was that these lights are stationary, they're not moving in any direction, and they're equidistant apart, and my first impression was that this is indeed what might be classified as a UFO.
Sure.
Because I was in my car and I was headed somewhere else, I did not have a chance to observe it very long, and then I kind of You know, I didn't watch TV that night or anything.
And then I heard on your show a few weeks ago your discussion with another gentleman.
I did not know that the... Peter Davenport, probably.
Exactly.
And I did not know that there had been coverage on TV or anything of that sort.
And what I actually saw was just a stationary five lights.
And they were equal, you know what I'm saying, equal distance.
I mean, they were not moving.
They were not like hovering helicopters that might tend to move sideways, up and down, or whatever.
Nor were they flares slowly descending.
Absolutely not.
And where I've seen in the sky moving airplanes, things of that sort, where they change position in a matter of seconds, this just appeared to be five stationary lights moving either upward, downward, sideways, not changing a relative position.
And that was exactly my first thought was.
Okay, well this is a major sighting.
Does it bother you that the mayor of your city and the Air Force Base adjacent to where you live don't seem to be interested?
Well, my feeling on the whole thing was astonishment because I really did not hear any hubbub about it the next day.
My colleagues at work had not heard about it.
And then I brought it to their attention after I heard your conversation with Mr. Davenport.
And no one at work had heard about this.
And then all of a sudden, and I recently wrote my father a letter, and I told him, I said, it really bugs me that I just did not drive directly towards those lights to find out what the hell they were.
Because I was actually too far south of the lights.
They were not immediately above me.
Well, do us all a favor and contact Frances Barwood.
She's in the Phoenix directory.
I'd be delighted to.
She can use the support.
It really, it does take a lot to come forward on something like this.
Let me ask you this, Frances.
If you had a chance to go back and keep your mouth shut now, and not say anything, would you or would you do again the same thing?
I'd do the same thing.
One of the other things that I asked about that got me in a lot of trouble too, When I first discovered that they had those metallic strips in dollars, I was astounded.
A constituent asked me what they were there for.
I said, I honestly don't know.
Well, some people said it can be detected if you have money on you and things like that.
I thought, well, this is really strange.
So I asked that question at a policy session once.
Boy, did I!
Talk about jokes!
Really?
Yeah, I mean, they called me paranoid, and the spokesperson for the mayor said that, you know, I see conspiracies everywhere, and I wonder where the water went when it goes down the drain.
And, you know, he can be really sarcastic.
But, you know, I really feel that, you know, why don't people ask more questions?
I don't know.
We used to.
I know.
We used to.
Well, we've lost the art of conversation.
I hope pun intended.
You're on the air with Francis Barwood in Phoenix.
Hello.
Hello.
Where are you, sir?
Glendale.
Glendale, all right.
I just had a quick question.
Well, several of them.
Okay, I didn't happen to see the lights.
My brother did.
He lives up there off Cave Creek in Beardsleet.
But my question for the young lady there is, as far as the mayor Skip there went, Where was he for the grand opening for that factory up there near her?
And number two, I understand I've heard on the radio lately that the police officers are starting to remove these license plate covers people are placing on their vehicles to, I don't know, help with the photo radar.
And that's basically my two questions.
I'll get off the air and listen.
All right.
I don't know about either one of those.
Okay, well, it was the controversial zoning case that they're doing a recall about.
Yes.
And they had their major grand opening, and we're talking major grand opening.
And because it was so controversial, the mayor chose not to go.
Not to go?
You mean after he was the only fellow who actually knew about all this and he didn't go?
Right.
And so I did the grand opening welcome speech.
And they said, aren't you afraid to be there?
And I felt it would have been an insult not to go.
So I really enjoyed myself.
All right.
Good.
What about this license plate business?
Do you know anything about that?
Very little.
Some of our surrounding cities have a law of the, what do you call it, photo radar.
And they have a law, or they say they have a law.
Nobody's proved it yet.
But that you can't get these little covers to go over your license plate so that the photo radar cannot read your license plate.
Right.
And so what's happening is some police officers are stopping people and confiscating the covers.
Wow.
So it's been a little hostile out there.
A little hostile?
I am totally opposed to photo radar, by the way.
Alright.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Councilwoman Frances Barwood.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
In Cottonwood, Arizona.
Alright.
And just Monday night, where I didn't see the ones in Prescott because they were way west of me, but Monday night out on the porch you could see four, well actually we could see three, above the horizon, orangey-yellowish globes, falls, just kind of sitting there hovering.
And as we watched, just two or three minutes later, one came up from ground level, Of course there was trees out there so I could see it through the trees and I could see it coming up and it came up and kind of joined the others and one of them floated off to the left a little ways and then came back and they all started moving away from us but we could we stood there and watched them for a good five ten minutes.
It was really kind of neat.
There you are.
Francis, let me tell you what seems to be going on.
And this is verified with a number of investigators, MUFON people, Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center.
In Mexico, Frances, I don't know how much you're up on all of this.
I'm getting to be.
Getting to be, I bet.
In Mexico City, these sightings of the exact same kind of thing we're talking about here are so common that the people have almost come to expect it and not be surprised by what they're seeing.
Literally that common.
And now in the Southwest, specifically in your area, they're becoming almost that common as well.
I wish I would see something.
Yeah, well, I always felt the same way until I finally did, Frances, and when I did, it literally changed my life.
On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Frances Barwood.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
All right, turn your radio off, please.
Okay.
This is John in Phoenix.
Hi, John.
Hey.
Yeah, we saw some crazy stuff.
We saw the same thing.
It was pretty crazy, man.
Well, this is amazing.
We've already heard from more than five, at least five people.
How many of you saw it?
It was me and four of my friends.
We were having this keg party out of my friend Rob's house.
And he said, look, dude.
He said, look up at the sky.
He looked up there, and it was just, it's like one of the most, it kind of looked at first like a formation of some planes.
So people have said.
Yeah, and it was just like, oh man, that's just a bunch of planes.
But Rob was saying, but dude, Making no sound.
It's like, you know when you hear jets passing overhead?
We know what jets sound like, yes.
Yeah, you can hear it.
And it's like, there is absolutely no sound.
And it was bizarre, but it's just like one of those things where you're always like, no man, it's... Can't be, you're sort of in denial about it.
Yeah, it's just like... Well, do you think it is reasonable that people ask questions about what's above your city?
Yeah.
Well, I mean...
The thing about it is, I just can't believe that the media and the Air Force and everybody is in total denial about it.
Exactly.
It's always like they're always trying to cover something up.
And it's always in the same area.
And it's always like someone's like, hey, nothing happened.
Everything will be cool.
Everybody be quiet.
Like they're trying to keep the public in the know.
Don't ask questions.
Relax.
Everything will be alright.
That kind of thing.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Francis Barwood.
Hello.
I've been listening to your program and from what I gather from the information so far I've heard that the military says that these sightings are nothing to be worried about, that apparently there's That there's no trouble with these sightings?
Well, they say no national security threat.
Basically, they say don't worry, be happy.
Well, if that's the case, could this be a display of some military vehicle of our own design and not necessarily from another planet?
Sure it could be.
And if so, what How would this affect the civilian population and its idea of freedoms or what have you in this country to have such firepower flying above our skies?
Especially above our major cities.
Correct.
I think that's a damn good question.
And maybe that is the answer, Francis, but then the next question that is provoked is, if we do have something like that, and we may, then why in heaven's name Fly it directly above a major population center.
That makes zero sense to me.
That's the puzzling part, is that it obviously was trying to be extremely obvious because of the path it took.
It never deviated away from heavy populated areas.
If I could, I'd like to read you just two sentences from the report that was given.
Yes, go ahead.
It says the Federal Aviation Administration, which operates the control tower at Sky Harbor International Airport, Did not report any unusual activity.
Even though those two guys did.
Since the city does not have the resources or expertise to investigate the source of light, such as those that were reported, we depend on the United States Air Force to investigate all such matters.
Fair enough.
But they didn't ask them to do it.
So, I am going to.
You are going to ask the Air Force?
Yes.
How are you going to do that, Frances?
Through a senator.
We have a senator who's I'm sort of interested in this.
And I'm going to call him and ask, you know, if he could ask the Air Force to investigate this.
I was hoping that the city would initiate that.
Because, I mean, I'm just a council person.
Sure.
I don't have any particular power.
You know, I'm just one of nine votes.
I would have hoped that they would have said, well, we're asking the Air Force to check into this.
But they didn't.
Not even that?
Not even that.
Um, that's just, it's such a puzzle to me, Frances.
Truly, it is.
Um, and again, I go back to this, if it's not a threat business, then what have we got the Air Force for?
If they're not supposed to, if something that large is hovering over a major population center, and they don't even go to check it out, then what good are they?
Well, and you know, I wish they'd have a little more faith in human beings.
Um, you know, if there, If it is something that they are doing and they tell us, hey, we're doing it, fine.
That's it.
If it's something from somewhere else and they say, you know, this is something from somewhere else, you know, people would be, some people would be a little upset.
But, you know, eventually they find it out anyway.
And so, you know, why, why hide things?
I agree with you.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Frances Barwood.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
This is Phyllis calling from Bellingham, Washington.
Hello, Phyllis.
Hi.
I wanted to tell you, since you're talking about this light formation, that about 21 years ago, in August, I think it was, of 76, over Bellingham Bay, I saw nine tiny white lights in a V formation pointed toward Bellingham, which would be due southeast, and I went out on my balcony and looked at them, And they were silent.
They were disconnected and they were about 1,200 feet from where I am.
Did anybody in the city of Bellingham raise any questions or ask for an investigation?
Never heard a word.
Nary a word, huh?
No.
And there was one more light.
Way down, there was a bright, it was so odd.
There was one clear down over Bellingham.
They were there for about 20 minutes and silently they all zoomed more or less sideways due south.
And they're just gone.
Well, there you go.
Another similar report.
Frances, you know, the phones are lit up here and I could probably sit here and take calls from Phoenix and the area and the people who saw it from now until we want to go out there at four o'clock in the morning.
But I think it is sufficient to already say, obviously, a lot more than five people saw it.
Zillions of people saw it.
And if I could ask the people that wanted to call in, if they could call my office, it would be real helpful.
And they're keeping track for me and I've taken a lot of calls at home, 37 last Saturday to be exact.
But this way it's documented in my office and that would be very helpful.
Alright, so people who saw this or people who want to at least support the effort, To have somebody look into it, which is what I presume you're moving toward now with your request to the Air Force, can support you by calling that number or, barring that, calling you at home because you're listed in the directory.
That's true.
And I'll try to get back to everybody.
It may take me a little while, but I do eventually get back to everybody.
Well, you're a courageous lady.
I wish you well.
And listen, Frances, the minute you need some help, you call me up, and I'll get you on the air.
Okay.
Thanks a bunch.
Take care, Frances.
Bye-bye.
That's Councilwoman Frances Barwood from Phoenix, where one of the most incredible displays of light Or a craft, depending on how you want to look at it, manifested itself over a major population area, Phoenix, in March.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Costa Costa Young from May 21st, 1997.
This is a presentation of the Costa Costa Young concerto.
you You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from May 21st, 1997.
And I want to repeat the contact information for Frances Barwood.
she is a councilwoman uh... for the city of phoenix
who dared to open her mouth to just suggest
that somebody really ought to investigate whatever this massive thing
hanging over uh... valley with two million people two million people
and uh... she's catching a hold for it from the cartoonists the newspaper people to the mayor to
other council people
although she said not too much without regard other council people and uh...
you know how that goes so if you are one of the ones in phoenix who saw these
lights if you are somebody in phoenix who would like to support
her with regard to at least a request for an investigation
of what the hell this was she says she's going to the air force now
uh... through a uh...
uh... arizona senator then contact francis barwood
Alright, in a moment, on to other things.
Uh, and we'll just have open lines for the remainder of the night.
Tomorrow night, Terrence McKenna, a person many of you have been requesting, is going to be on the show.
He'll be coming to us from the Big Island of Hawaii.
Alright, a quick look at what's going on.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you.
In Denver, prosecutors wrapped up their case against Timothy McVeigh, and it looks to me to be a very impressive case indeed.
on wednesday afternoon the prosecution presented a total of a hundred and thirty
seven witnesses in eighteen days in the oklahoma bomber of bombing trial
this is a case built on circumstantial evidence but uh... you can build a case in that manner and it does
appear to be overwhelming
circumstantial evidence The defense, of course, is going to go to work very hard, or as hard as they can on that, in suggesting, arguing, it is only circumstantial evidence, and here we are talking about the death penalty, and without
Fingerprints, without really hard evidence, you are about to dispense a man's life.
And I wonder how that jury is going to struggle with that question, don't you?
President Clinton criticized the fashion industry Wednesday.
Fashion industry.
Get this, for allegedly projecting a positive image of heroin use.
At a White House conference on drug abuse, the President said that those who make and market clothes should not try to glamorize addiction.
The President said heroin is fast becoming the drug of choice, and part of this, he said, has to do with the images that are finding their way to our young people.
Some call it the heroin chick approach, To marketing, in which model strike poses that make them appear stylishly strung out on drugs.
You know, I've got to wonder about that a little.
How, in God's name, is a person stylishly strung out on drugs?
I don't see that.
When I see models on the runway, and you know, CNN does a lot of fashion shows, and yes, the women seem emaciated to me.
But I do not translate in my mind that emaciated model look, and you know what I'm talking about, to heroin use.
Do you?
U.S.
lawmakers are pressuring the Air Force to grant the first woman B-52 bomber pilot an honorable discharge rather than court-martial her on charges including adultery.
Several Congresswomen at the Washington News Conference called on the Air Force to drop the charges against Flynn.
The Air Force is weighing Lt.
Kelly Flynn's demand that she receive an honorable discharge upon her resignation.
The Air Force has delayed Flynn's court-martial, while Air Force Secretary Sheila Windahl considers the resignation request.
Yesterday morning, I made, at the end of the program, an error.
And not a lot of you would have heard it, but I will repeat it.
I said, when I was in the Air Force, and I was an airman in the Air Force, there were very strict laws regarding fraternization.
In other words, somebody of enlisted rank was not to be dating or betting somebody of officer rank.
And toward the end of the show, um, a man from Idaho, Bob, called and said, Hey Art, what were your parents?
He said, were they both commissioned?
And I, I responded, Oh, there were just a few seconds left.
And I said, yes.
And then I immediately thought, Oh my God.
No, they weren't.
Now, My parents were indeed separated by that barrier.
Now, I'm not sure in 1944 or 45 if the same non-fraternization rules existed, but I realized I made a mistake.
My mother was a drill instructor at Camp Lejeune, which is where I was born in North Carolina, and my dad was an officer, both of them in the Marine Corps.
So it occurred to me that in my formation there must have been some fraternization.
Or, prior to my formulation, there must have been some fraternization.
And so I was entirely wrong about that.
What I don't know, though, is what the UCMJ suggested with regard to fraternization at that time.
So, you know, I've got to ask my mom about that.
If I'd had time today, I would have called.
With regard to the Kelly Flynn case, the Lieutenant Flynn case, I originally thought that, frankly, that Lieutenant Flynn deserved better treatment.
And I know this is true.
Look, I know it's true.
Uh, 60 Minutes even did a little segment on it, and they asked the right question, and that was, come on, you know damn well a lot of B-52 pilots, uh, have been messing about with married women, have been called on it, and that the whole thing has been swept under the rug.
Good old Boys Network kind of deal, right?
Sure.
That's true.
I believe it.
I know it.
And when that was the only story, and Lieutenant Flynn was saying she had been lied to, She, uh, I've been lied to and that this man, uh, had told her that he was separated.
At that point, I thought that she should then be treated, and they were making a big case out of this, and just persecuting a woman in a way they would never persecute a man, or rarely, unless there was something else going on.
Okay?
However, now her ex-lover, I presume ex, has been talking And as has his wife.
Or is it ex-wife?
I really don't know.
But both of them have been saying, in essence, that Lt.
Flynn lied.
And that she came over to their house and had dinner.
And all that kind of thing.
So now, if Lt.
Flynn told a series of lies with regard to this, then you've got a different situation.
And if that really is the case, then perhaps a court-martial should proceed.
So I have mixed feelings as I find out more about this case.
And I wanted to tell you that even with regard to my own parents, I've got to sit down and think about it because, I don't know, I ought to call my mom, really, and ask her what the UCMJ said at that time about fraternization.
Am I, in fact, the product of fraternization?
I probably am.
I mean, surely I am.
The only question is what the UCMJ said about it at that time.
Here's a fax on the subject, Dear Art, and the rest of the intelligent portion of the American population.
Doesn't it worry anyone, even a little bit, that First Lieutenant Kelly Flynn, a single woman, is charged with adultery instead of alienation of affection, while the married man involved in the same sordid affair is looked upon as completely innocent?
Hasn't anyone figured out something is wrong with this little slice of juicy news?
Worse yet, this self-same innocent married man and his wife strongly oppose giving Lieutenant Flynn an honorable discharge.
Are people involved in this kind of thing considered innocent merely by virtue of expressing outrage and indignity?
Who's screwing who here?
Why isn't this guy's wife upset at him?
Lieutenant Flynn isn't married, but all eyes have been diverted from anyone else.
Why?
Rich in Texarkana, Texas.
And I do agree, Rich, the way this story has developed smacks of what the press has been doing lately.
And I'm saddened by it.
Whether it's our friend Mr. Rosenthal back in the Washington AP Bureau, Or any other major reporter, it seems to me that once the press gloms on to a story, woman, B-52 pilot, adultery, then woe is anybody who gets in the way of this angle of the story that the press wants to tell.
And I'm tiring of it.
I really am tiring of it.
I know that we live in a Supposed free society, but if our supposed responsible press is unwilling to report the facts, and they're going to stick to their story the way they want to tell it no matter what, then the meaning of free press becomes diluted.
Severely diluted to the point where news and editorial comment are mixed to a no longer discernible point.
Are you all following me now?
I've had two recent examples of that on my own, and I really see that same sort of thing going on here and now.
It's kind of a sad thing, isn't it?
And here's this.
Art, while I must agree, your subject of the Phoenix UFO sightings certainly makes interesting conversation for your audience.
Isn't this just doing a verbal dance around real concerns lurking in the shadows of this issue?
The questions and concerns emerging seem to mask a rapidly spreading fear that our great American government can no longer be trusted about anything.
In view of this obvious situation, our questions and concerns amount to little more than whimpering in the scary dark.
Perhaps it would be far more American, nay far more human, to simply take charge of our government and demand en masse an explanation, tax revolt, whatever it takes, before we all collapse in confused cowardice.
That is from Lahaina in Maui, Hawaii.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, this is Patrick in Boise, Idaho, listening on KIDO.
Hi, Patrick.
All right, I had two things.
First one's really quick.
I just want to vouch for you.
I've listened to the show for quite a while now, and you do always answer your own phones.
Oh, yeah.
I do.
Even on nights when you're screening calls.
That's right.
I screen when I have a guest so that I know it's relevant, but when it's open lines, I don't even screen.
Yeah, I know that.
And second of all, about the first two hours last night, I'm an avid horror and science fiction film buff.
Just this is another thing that leads me to believe that we're just one step closer to Tuesday being Soil and Green Day, you know?
Yeah.
That was a hard program.
That was a hard program.
It was a hard program to even decide to do.
I hope a lot of people ordered it and passed it around.
Something's got to be done about that.
Yeah, and just out of curiosity, you're familiar with that, right?
Soil and Green?
Oh, of course.
Do you think the way things are going currently, that we would ever reach that point, do you think it's possible?
If food production on Earth, because of climatic change, or ozone, UV radiation increase, or whatever other reason one can imagine, would suddenly be reduced, I think a lot of horrible things would happen that are better not contemplated.
Yeah, that's true.
I always consider that probably the most horrifying film I've ever seen, because it's so possible.
Yeah, a lot of things are possible, and I used to think that... I guess I used to be very naive, and I'm over that pretty much.
Yeah.
Alright, thanks a lot.
Thank you very much for the call.
Take care.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
And as an ex-vet myself, I don't understand how people can take the view that It's because she's a lieutenant colonel, and a pilot, and a female, that's what they're going for.
She knew... She is a first lieutenant.
A first lieutenant.
Yes.
She, being a... Alright, second instruction is turn your radio off, please.
Okay.
Her being a officer, she took an oath to obey the orders above her, and to obey the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Correct.
And she broke that oath.
Correct.
And that is the point.
It's not the adultery, it's not anything else.
She took a oath, and she broke it.
And that should be the bottom line.
Alright, but bottom lines are rarely black and or white.
And, you know, here's the truth for you to think about, okay?
A lot of male B-52 pilots, F-16 pilots, F-14 pilots, F-15 pilots, they've been out... Look, these are jocks, you know?
Um, they're very special people.
And, uh, a lot of them will, uh, bed down anything that moves and wears a skirt.
And there have been a lot of... I'm telling you the truth here.
Uh, whether you want to hear it or not, there have been a lot of instances in which they've been called on screwing around.
Because they're hot dogs.
That's just what they are.
Uh, in the air and on the ground.
And, frankly, a lot of it has been allowed to slide.
So, you know, if that's all that was going on, then I don't think she's getting equal treatment.
She's not getting equal treatment if that's been going on.
Then trust me.
I've understood it.
Trust me.
Trust me, sir.
The man knew about what was going on and gave her an order That's correct.
That is correct.
And did you see the 60 minutes segment on that?
Yes, I did.
In other words, the guy was living in her house.
True.
Alright, and so she, all she wanted to do, and in breaking that order, all she, she had to figure out a way to go back and say, it's over.
You gotta move out.
And that's all she did.
As far as I know.
The only thing I see is if this was a lower-ranking individual, an enlisted man, who was just an airman or was another posting, I don't think it would have gotten the news media that it did because she is a female pilot.
And I think there's a problem with that.
I agree with you, and that is not equal treatment.
Thank you.
On the other side of the coin, if she repeatedly lied to the investigators, then you've got something else.
So I have very mixed emotions about this.
In fact, I'll tell you my own story about it.
I suppose I will.
I've got no reason not to.
When I lived in Japan, I lived in Japan for a decade.
Part of that time, actually, on Okinawa.
It was then not Japan.
I lived off base with a Japanese girl.
And I was brought before my captain and told that I had to stop doing that.
I had to stop cohabitating, which is what they called it then.
and i did not and
i must tell you uh... that this practice uh... though it was not a military
member obviously it was a uh... japanese national no national at the time
This is, I mean, it's so common in the military service as to be hardly worth discussing.
And it's generally handled among men.
And I am a little bit suspicious that Lieutenant Flynn is a different case because she is a woman.
And yet I temper that with the late news I have that she lied.
If she specifically lied to investigators, then maybe a court-martial is appropriate.
I just don't know.
It's a tough case.
It's really a tough case.
And I think just about everybody out there is kind of suspicious that it involves a woman.
So anyway, there you are.
I wonder what you think.
I'm sure you've got a view.
Everybody seems to be talking about it.
What do you think the Air Force is going to do?
Proceed with court-martial?
Or simply allow her to leave quietly with an honorable discharge?
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
This is a test.
Tonight's program originally aired May 21st.
That's Bill in Fairfield, California.
Bill, you know what?
francis referring to the council woman in uh...
arizona francis is asking the air force the wrong question she should ask the
air force to quote release the results of their investigation in quote
you can bet the occurrences over arizona did not go unnoticed by them
that's bill in fairfield california bill i you know what i agree with
you if the air force did not investigate this
a major major major item craft whatever it is in the skies over phoenix
that seems to me they're derelict in their duty You know what I mean?
If they are not there to protect our skies and the sovereignty of our airspace, then what are they good for?
And I say that as an ex-member of the Air Force.
So, yeah, You know what?
Maybe she should submit a Freedom of Information request regarding the incident at Phoenix.
Maybe that's another way to go.
I'm getting really sick of all of this.
I mean, a little straight talk would sure be nice regarding all of this, wouldn't it?
Anyway, we'll get back to your phone calls in just a moment.
**thunder** From Cherry in Milpitas, California.
Some straight thinking, I guess.
Two possible scenarios aren't, with regard to Phoenix.
One, these craft belong to a foreign government.
They are not ours.
We are powerless against them.
Every now and then, they fly around just to tweak the noses of government officials here who are forced into a frenzy of denial.
This just might explain a few crazy things that government people are doing these days, but would not explain much about local officials.
Or, two, the craft really are extraterrestrial, and all those officials who are nonchalant about it are all themselves aliens or humans who have been cloned or otherwise co-opted by the aliens.
Huh.
Well, I would go for number one, except that I wouldn't imagine it to be a foreign government.
I would imagine it to be my own.
The puzzle for me is why our own government would choose to fly something in its secret arsenal over a major metropolitan area, two million people, and that's a lot of people, to look up and see something of this magnitude.
I mean, that's a lot of people.
Alright, listen, tomorrow night Terrence McKenna is going to be here, and a lot of people have been waiting for Terrence.
We're going to be talking about time, the nature of time, and a lot of very interesting things.
And then, Friday night, Saturday morning, we are going to interview Victor, and follow it with an interview with Sean David Morton.
And Sean has been instrumental in seeing to it that we got a world exclusive photograph On the website right now, the second photograph of the alleged interrogation at Area 51 of an alien being.
In this photograph you will see, though his face has been erased, presumably to protect the innocent, a doctor probing the mouth of this alien.
It's a bizarre picture.
It cannot be seen anywhere else right now.
It's on my website.
Take a look before you hear this interview with Victor.
Victor is the guy who took the video.
Victor is going to be using a voice changer.
Uh, to protect his own identity.
And he'll be here at midnight pacific time.
So... Be here.
And in the meantime, take a look at that photograph.
You'll find it at www.artbell.com.
www.artbell.com.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning, Mr. Bell.
Hi.
I would like to relay a brief story and lighten up the conversation about the female pilot in the B-52.
Alright.
A jet airplane broke formation with them bombs on it and crashed into the Colorado Mountains.
Yes.
Right before Timothy McVeigh went on trial.
What if... Actually, it was during the trial, but yes.
But what if they had a bomb the courthouse there in Denver?
Well, what if they had?
I mean, you said you were going to lighten all this up.
Yeah, well... Where's the light part?
Okay, let me tell you the light part real quick.
My husband, at the age of 17, a senior in high school, in 1939, prior to World War II, he joined the Texas National Guard.
And right after he went into the Guard, the Staple Sergeant sent word out to the grounds for any young men that wanted to sign up to become a pilot And my husband was tickled to death.
He thought he was going to get to be trained to be a pilot and fly an airplane.
Yes.
But when he got down to the stables, they handed him all the pitchforks and told him to separate the manure from the hay.
Pile the manure here, pile the hay there.
And that's how my husband became a pilot.
A pilot?
A pilot.
Was there a specific career field?
Well, see, prior to World War II, my husband in high school was in the ROTC program.
Well, nationwide, everybody in the ROTC, the young men, were encouraged, you know, to take it serious, get their training, and go into the military, you know, and fight, you know, help our country win the war that was coming on.
It was prior to it.
I understand.
Alright, thank you very much.
That is a little lighter.
And frequently in the U.S.
military, when you volunteer, which is why people in the military are roundly told not to volunteer for things, they find themselves enshrouded in something they did not expect nor do not want.
That's fairly common in the military as well.
You've got to be a very special kind of person to be in the military in the first place.
It's not for everybody.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, how you doing, Art?
I'm doing.
Uh, yeah, my name's Scott, and I'm over here in Lovell, Wyoming.
Yes, sir.
I was in the Air Force for six years.
Okay.
I was at a SAC base, B-52 base.
Right.
Freeport.
Right.
And, uh, man, you know, you really had to... You looked up to these people, the bomber alert crews, when they were on alert.
Sure.
I mean, they travel around in packs everywhere they go.
You know, they're wearing little Alaska guts and everything.
Yep.
Is it true that she was offered an Article 15?
I'm not aware of that.
Okay.
I'm not aware of that.
That would be a lesser disciplinary measure in which Wright could be taken.
Yeah, if anybody else has heard of that, you know, this thing has just been bugging me to death.
I couldn't sleep tonight.
I was in the Air Force and when I came back from overseas I made a reference to a new
female that had just come in the Air Force.
I said the word, babe.
I said, hey babe, shut the trunk.
She was walking off to the post and because she didn't shut the trunk I couldn't drive
the car off.
Well, just that little escapade there cost me $150, suspended bust.
It took my weapon away from me for six months and took my driver's license away from me.
I didn't get all that reinstated until the month before I got out of service.
I have serious questions about women in the military, period.
And I have asked these questions before.
And I get a lot of argument about it.
And I know they now comprise a significant percentage of our military and are very necessary to what we do.
But in combat situations, I don't know that I'm... Have any of you seen a movie?
It's currently making the pay-per-view rounds.
And I'm sitting here trying to think of the name of it right now.
It's a very good movie.
It'll occur to me shortly.
About the Gulf War and about a captain who flew a helicopter.
And actually it portrayed her, well I don't want to tell you the plot of the movie, but it's worth seeing in view of what is going on right now.
I highly recommend it and I will go and get the name of the movie or somebody will fax it to me.
A very, very good movie, by the way.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, that would be Courage Under Fire.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I just saw it about a week and a half ago and my God, that was a good movie.
Yeah, it's kind of timely.
You don't hear much about women pilots.
Right.
Just on the subject of the emaciated models, I don't mean to nitpick, I apologize, but it's heroin chic, not chic.
Yeah, thank you.
I always screw that up.
Heroin chic.
Alright, well it's not, though, in my eyes.
In other words, before heroin became chic, Models still look the same way to me.
They always looked emaciated to me.
True, but it's really unfortunate that they would actually... Actually, when you think about it, heroin chick kind of works.
that that's what they are have always sought to reduce themselves.
By any means.
By any means.
Frequently tossing their cookies or whatever else it takes.
Right.
Heroin chicks.
And they're also on the cutting edge.
So whether it's a good fad or a bad, they tend to be on the forefront of it.
Yeah, but I don't think it has all that much to do with heroin.
That's my... Oh, no, no.
It doesn't.
It has to do with looking thin for the camera.
Right, right.
But I'm just saying that there are, you know, casualties of war, so to speak.
Being in New York and in the fat lane, that's all I meant.
But about Phoenix, I just wanted to say that that really is pretty amazing to have such a large amount of people see something like that and you don't hear it in the main news media.
Well, or even look, I mean here we've got one of nine council people Phoenix is a big city.
Being on the city council is a non-trivial matter.
There are only nine people below the mayor.
And she's saying, excuse me, but couldn't we have an investigation?
And they're laughing at her, chuckling at her, writing cartoons about her, and slamming her around.
Why?
How much more credibility can you get?
You would think that it was like Lyndon LaRouche or something.
Yeah, exactly.
Nice talking to you, Art.
Take care, sir.
Thank you.
Carry on.
All right.
Heroin chicks.
Yeah, heroin chicks.
I've always screwed that up, but actually, in this case, it works, doesn't it?
And I just don't make the connection the President is making.
I have always looked at models coming down the ramp and said to myself, what's the matter with these people?
Why don't they put a little bit of meat on their bones?
And this was years before heroin became chic.
And I'm not even sure it is now.
Since when did it become so?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Arthur, it's been a long time.
How you doing?
I'm alright.
Francis and I clashed last year over the museum issue.
Hi, Francis.
She's not on, sir.
Oh, she's gone?
No, she's gone, right.
Okay, well listen.
Now, it lets you and I clash because I happen to agree with Francis.
In other words, Here you had a piece of art, and I'll put that in quotes, that came and was done at taxpayer expense and stood in a public building.
Now, every year at Christmas, when we've got some sort of display in front of a public building, the ACLU or somebody else comes along and files endless bitches until it is removed from public property.
Okay, so if you can do that, based on the fact that it's public property, not private, then why does the same argument not apply to the flag?
I don't necessarily agree with either argument.
I just don't believe in censorship.
Well, I do think this.
If you're going to wipe out that one exhibit which offends because it's taxpayer funded, then you'll have to close down the entire exhibit.
So in other words, you don't support people who want activity scenes removed from public property at Christmas?
Isn't there something better they can concentrate on?
See, but you really do, don't you?
So you really do have a kind of a conflict here, don't you?
No, I don't think so.
Do you want me to explain myself better?
Absolutely.
Clearer?
Absolutely.
Okay, I agree with her in so far as she's saying it's taxpayer funded and therefore if it offends a great majority of the taxpayers, then it should not appear.
But then again... No, no, even there.
You've got the NEA.
And they fund a lot of stuff that people object to, so... Right.
I can live with that.
But wait now.
It's in a public building.
Right.
Now that's a different piece of territory in my mind.
It's the Museum of Fine Arts.
Public building?
It's the only one we have.
Yeah, but taxpayers supported public building.
Okay, well then they should take the entire exhibit out.
Not just that one, which seems to offend Francis, but maybe all of them, because maybe All of them would offend some people.
Let's not have any exhibits in there.
Let's just have an empty room.
And that'll be the exhibit.
Nihilism in the 90s.
Empty room.
Well, okay, so then, I take you back then to Christmas.
A cross on a mountain.
A nativity scene on public property.
Right.
And I know that to remain consistent, you're probably going to tell me That it ought to be allowed on public property, but I'll bet you you've been one of the ones arguing it ought to be removed.
If you're absolutely honest.
No.
I'd be honest with you, Art.
You know, sometimes I just look at things like that and I say, you know, it's kind of pretty.
I don't have to necessarily read into it as a religious symbol.
It's just a series of lights.
And speaking of a series of lights... Good segue.
I gotta get in on that before I leave you, buddy.
Yeah, sure.
Because I am from Mesa.
And I didn't see the actual happening, but I saw the video on my news station, and it was shot with a zoom lens.
The camera was pretty far away.
It still looked enormous.
So I can imagine, whatever house it went over, it must have been absolutely spine-tingling.
Well, I heard from person after person as I knew I would.
Now, as much as you may disagree with Frances with regard to the flag display, how do you feel about her basic ridicule for simply requesting an investigation so we can know what that was that hung over the city?
How do you feel about that?
It's kind of interesting, isn't it, Art?
This is why I love your show.
In this case, she is rather anti-censorship.
Right.
Because people are trying to censor her.
Right.
I watch the live council meetings here in Phoenix.
It's like a not-so-well-directed episode of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
These people are brain-dead.
It's really frustrating.
It's laughable.
Well, you've seen Frances, I take it, then live on TV.
And numerous other people.
And at least this woman has a sense of humor.
And at least she doesn't nod off at the meetings and has to be kicked under the table.
It's really incredible art.
I mean, I love this area and everything, but hey, you know, I saw a show, and this would interest you as well, the other night, about the space shuttle.
Oh, yes.
And they showed actual footage along with simulated footage, and I was not aware that we have built a machine that can leave the Earth's atmosphere And I had no idea that upon re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, that is not unlike going on a trip through hell.
That's right.
It's just unbelievable.
And we have invented this craft.
It goes 20,000 miles an hour through hell.
Yes.
And it gets there.
It gets through.
Yes.
And it lands back on Earth.
That's correct.
If we can build something like that, Why couldn't we build a thing a mile long with six lights?
I don't see the big hoopla.
Well, it's hard to believe that it's an alien.
The hoopla comes because the Air Force says we don't investigate those sorts of things.
Of course, wouldn't you say?
With the exception of very few people in government.
Sir, I would say that if the Air Force is not concerned about security over our major population centers, then somebody needs to sit down and write them a new job description.
Here's a weird take on it for you.
It's like, should we be watching Russian submarines off our coast?
If the Navy doesn't want to do that, then they too should have a new job description.
Look, I've got to break away.
I love you, baby.
Thank you, take care.
That'll be a $100 fine.
I love you, baby.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
This is a tribute to the late John Lewis, who died in a plane crash in 1997.
The song is a tribute to the late John Lewis, who died in a plane crash in 1997.
Put my back on if you're hoping When it's alright and it's coming on
We gotta get right back to where we started Premier Radio Network presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
Tonight's program originally aired May 21st, 1997 I'll tell ya, I really like this song
I really like this song.
But I guess you can tell, huh?
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Hello.
Good morning, Lone Wolf.
How you doing?
Morning.
This is Kathy and Boise.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
I missed your show last night.
The first couple hours, I have a question and a couple comments.
Can you tell me who your guest was, and where did she come from, where did she get her information?
She's in Eastern Canada, and she acquired her own information through investigation, and I take it you know generally what the subject was?
I caught an article a few days ago in a weekly paper here about cannibalism, so I thought maybe that's what you basically were talking about.
Her book is called Food Pets Die For.
Rendering.
Rendering.
Basically, it suggests that pets are used as pet food.
It doesn't suggest it, it charges it, and I think proves it.
That's what it was about.
You know, I don't have a pet, but if I did, I'd do the same thing I did with my son.
I'd make my own baby food for that pet.
Oh, would you?
Because I don't, you know, you don't trust, you know, there's very little to trust in
these days.
Anyway, enough of that.
I have a request.
I know you're going to call the aliens soon.
Do you think maybe you can open up your alien talk line before and see what the aliens want
to hear?
Ha ha ha.
It's been a while, hasn't it?
It is.
It's a lot of fun.
I love your show, Art.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We're going to do that again soon, too.
I do that every now and then.
I open up lines.
Oh, that reminds me.
You know what?
Somebody sent me a fax a little while ago and said that Sacramento Television ran a piece about me.
Now, indeed, two very nice gentlemen from Sacramento Television were here about a week ago and were in studio and they interviewed me.
They took a lot of video of me doing the program and they interviewed my wife.
And I have no idea, no idea what my wife said.
And I got a fax earlier tonight saying, you know, I saw you and your wife on Sacramento TV tonight, Art, and really enjoyed it, but I had no warning the piece was going to run.
Uh, when it did, and I don't know what it was, so would, would you please, uh, for a moment cooperate with me and try and let me get a call from Sacramento on one of two lines.
I want to talk to somebody who saw the piece and can tell me about it.
Would anybody in Sacramento be willing to do that?
Uh, let me open two separate lines.
No, make it three for Sacramento and everybody else hold off for a minute.
I would like to know exactly what they had on the air.
I would really like to know.
You know, it's funny.
You do these things, and then you hear they run, and you don't know what they did.
Would everybody else hold off for just a couple of minutes till I get a call from Sacramento and somebody can tell me exactly what it is they ran if you happen to catch it in Sacramento.
Again, toll free 1-800-618-8255.
West of the Rockies.
Oops, you would have been on the air.
I see you dumped out when you realized you weren't in Sacramento.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
The only thing I know about the Sacramento thing is My sister took a teddy bear.
She threw the thing at me, hit me in the head, and said, you listen to this guy.
And I said, yes.
I've been telling you about him for over a year.
And that's what she did.
And I don't understand it.
What's wrong with that?
So I'm interested to know what ran myself.
Well, then that makes at least two of us.
And you know what?
The TV crew was here for some period of time.
But what did you say to make my sister throw a teddy bear?
Oh, just the usual stuff.
People throw stuff at me all the time, sir.
But I listen to you, and I'm honored to listen to you.
All right, thank you very much.
Take care.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good morning.
Hello?
Hello.
Yes, I want to say that you should not be on television spreading your horrible corruption.
Oh, well look, first of all, I know who you are, and you know that I know who you are.
Turn your radio off.
Wait, hold on, hold on.
Even you, even you have got to turn off your radio.
Those are the rules.
Well, quit bossing me around and let me get my word in edgewise.
Alright, let me hear what you can do edgewise.
Well, first of all, I just want to say this whole thing about pet foods, and so what?
I mean, it's just meat.
And if you're gonna throw it in there in the stew, they're just dumb animals anyway, and especially those evil, filthy cats, they would be cannibalizing humans if they could get their tiger paws on them, if you ever see what happens in the wild, especially with that berserker tiger that killed that trainer in front of all those people.
You know that they're filthy, vicious, devil animals, and they're perfect for you and your show, but as far as I'm concerned, they could melt them all down and I don't really care.
Did you say evil, filthy cats?
That's true.
That's true.
That's the most disgusting thing I've heard from you yet.
I mean, this really tops it all.
Well, of course, they're your familiars.
They're used in witchcraft, and what they do is they go out and they entrap people.
Oh, so now you're saying that cats are evil, is that right?
Well, inherently, that's correct.
And another thing is, about this adultery, that horrible hussy slut going around defaming our military should not get out of this, should not be able to wiggle out of this in her little ways.
You know, she should be tried the way a man is tried, and punished like a man.
If she wants to play like a man, if she can't take it, then she should be You know, it's another sign of how they're infiltrating and demoralizing our military.
Well, what do you say about a man who gets away with it?
What's that?
I said, what do you say about a man who gets away with it?
Gets away with what?
Gets away with adultery in the Good Old Boys Club.
This is how the whole New World Order, this is all about breaking down our military with immoral, evil people.
Well, at least you're consistent there.
Well, she... she... I finally found something I can give you points for, but if you don't like cats, I don't know about you at all.
Well, I don't like them.
They're filthy animals.
You know what?
Whenever they come around my yard, I shoot my air gun at them.
And I've hit a couple.
You shoot cats?
They go squalling out of there at a million miles an hour.
It's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Praise the Lord and pass the pellets, huh?
When they're the devil's animals, it's okay to eviscerate and destroy them.
The devil's animals.
You and your guests have just been more subversive.
You and your guests have just been more subversive, and you're getting way, you're getting crazier
than I've even thought that you could be.
You really do love me, don't you?
Well, as far as all your deals of diseases being made up by the government and roused
upon the population, that's just such, that's such idiotic.
You embrace every word I say, you hang on every phrase, don't you?
They just take away our guns so they can send us in just like it happened in Chinaman Square and they can roll over us with the tanks and just destroy us and you're just Anybody who shoots cats with a pellet gun ought to have the gun taken away.
You see, you're the one who's behind the defamation of our politicians by saying that they're corrupt and crooked and evil.
How can you say that about them?
They are, I know.
Our government is a beautiful thing and people like you and Tim McVeigh who want to tear down our government should just, you should not be on the airwaves.
Now you're putting me in the same class as Timothy McVeigh.
JC, I'm curious, if I were to tell you to walk off a pier, would you do it?
I would not, because I do not take commands from Satan.
Uh-huh.
Walk off a pier, Jaycee.
I don't think so.
Go on, take a long walk off a very short pier, Jaycee.
Your worship of Satan is so apparent here.
I love you.
I love you, Jaycee.
I love your voice.
I love everything you say.
As far as I'm concerned, a city councilwoman should not be working in the UFOs.
She should be trying to balance her budget instead of playing around with spaceships.
You're cool, Jesse.
You know what?
You've seen too much Star Trek.
You're my kind of guy.
You've seen way too much Star Trek, and you're probably smoking Reaper.
And you're just, you're out of your mind with all this craziness and you're just really going over the edge.
Over the edge?
You just can't seem to contain yourself anymore.
I can't, I can't, I'm uncontained, Tracy.
Look, I just want to know why you won't talk straight conversation with me.
Because you don't do it.
Yes, I do.
I'm bringing forth the new revelation from the Lord.
It's anointed onto my forehead, through my voice, into the railways.
I'm trying to save a nation, and you're just trying to tear it down!
Alright, J.C., that's it for tonight.
It was lovely hearing from you once again.
Good night.
That's J.C.
Oh, now, there's a revelation.
Speaking of revelations, he shoots cats with pellet guns.
Praise the Lord in past pellets.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Yes, sir.
This is Don in Nashville.
Hi, Don.
Enjoyed hearing you on the air Tuesday night with John Ziegler.
That was fun.
Well, John's a pretty good guy, but he gets a little carried away sometimes with all the shows.
I was the one that called in and mentioned that article that appeared in the Nashville paper Sunday about talk radio.
Oh, you know, I really, really wanted to get a copy of that.
Well, I'll tell you what I'll do, Art.
I'll get a copy.
Matter of fact, this entire section, and I'll wrap it up and send it to you.
Oh, bless your heart.
Tell everybody, basically, what this appeared in your Nashville paper, huh?
Right.
In other words, in one of the sections, the title is, uh, Talk Radio Tuning Out.
And it says, uh, razor wire political genre seems to be losing its edge.
And actually, Art, this was written by a Ronald D. Elving, and this came from, uh, Congressional Quarterly.
Oh, no kidding.
So, uh, basically the gist of the article is that it says that, uh, most politically oriented talk radio seems to be, uh, losing, uh, some of its following.
Audience share.
Right.
And I wondered if you appreciated the reference to you in the article.
What exactly did they say?
Okay, well I'll go down to one of the paragraphs.
It says, such microphone titans as Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, and Larry King continue to flourish, but the buzz these days is more likely to be about Dr. Laura's advice on sexual responsibility Or Art Bell, a lone wolf, broadcasting from the desert outside Las Vegas.
That's very nice.
And it's very correct.
It's the buzz inside of talk radio right now as well.
There's a magazine inside the business called Talkers.
And I got my new issue of it, I think, day before yesterday.
And plastered right across the front is talk radio and politics.
What future do they have together?
And everybody inside talk radio is all of a sudden talking about it.
I've known about this for a couple of years now.
Well, this is something I've heard you mention numerous times on the show.
A million times.
And the answer is, politics is part of life, but it's only part of life.
It's not all of life.
And when you look at talk radio, pretty much It's treated as though it's the only thing there is in life.
You know, by most of the talk show hosts.
Right.
And I simply figured out that was no longer true a couple of years ago and stopped doing it.
If talk radio is going to be really interesting for the people to listen to, it's got to be some sort of reflection of real life.
And frankly, right now, what they're doing in Washington, D.C.
is hardly even relevant to everyday life.
Hardly even relevant to everyday life.
So to sit here and concoct a discussion about a budget that ain't real, politicians that are crooked, and I don't use that term lightly, crooked, politicians who have been fined and the manner in which they will pay that fine, or any other myriad of things that they talk about, is simply not relevant.
And if Talk radio persists in, um, I was actually invited to be the keynote speaker at a convention.
I, you know, I don't do that kind of thing, so I turned it down, uh, politely turned it down, a big talk radio convention.
But had I gone, I'd have been in terrible trouble, because I would have lectured them on this subject.
Literally lectured them.
They're making a mistake.
And for all those who want to take shots at me for doing something a little different, fine.
Who cares?
Take your shots.
Be my guest.
I've got a good thick skin.
It's had a chance to develop over many, many years.
I don't care.
And people take shots at me every single day.
But given an opportunity to lecture people in my own field, or to talk to people in my own field, I would have explained this to them, and I know they would not have wanted to hear it.
So, I thought about it, and thought better of it, and decided not to.
It's just, I mean, think yourself, folks.
Other than a few really devoted political junkies, how many people, how many hours every day do you spend talking about politics?
With your wife?
Your children?
The people you work with?
Whatever.
How many hours?
Oh, I bet you can count it in minutes.
Or maybe not at all.
So, there's lots of other things in life that are interesting.
And, uh, whatever they are, we do them when they come up.
Spontaneously.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Will you like to turn my radio off?
Okay.
This is Maria.
Hi, Maria.
In Sarasota.
Sarasota, Florida.
That's country.
That's down in my dad, yes.
Yes.
Is he still in the Cortez area?
He certainly is.
You should come visit.
I know.
He keeps telling me the same thing.
We have the cultural center of the southeast in this area.
And I'm not kidding.
Anyway, I had two things I wanted to tell you.
I know where most of my little ones are buried.
Most of your little ones?
Yes.
I had mostly Congress Spaniels.
Oh, those kind of little ones.
Yes.
I had the most beautiful one in the whole world.
She was red and white and she was gorgeous.
She had 20 champions in her pedigree.
She's buried in St.
Petersburg in the Happy Hunting Grounds.
People should know that they do have lovely pet cemeteries around.
You can put them there, and then you wouldn't have to worry about the rendering.
Well, that's exactly right, and you can be sure of one thing.
The next time something happens to one of my pets, I'm not going to leave it with a vet.
Definitely.
And the other thing I wanted to tell you, I belong to the Unity Church, and it's down in Venice.
We have been adopted by a kitten.
He's adopted our church.
Did you hear J.C.
there a minute ago?
Mr. I represent God.
I couldn't stand him.
And he's out there shooting cats?
Yes.
Well this little kitten, I haven't seen it yet, but it's a gray tiger and has white feet
and it has a little kitty door to come in and out and the minister told me the other
day that they had been feeding them inside the church but they had to quit doing that
because the coons come in his little kitty door and eat his food.
The church is kind of out in the country.
So now they're feeding him outside too.
Well, that's wonderful.
But anyway, his name is Ezekiel.
Well, J.C.
would put a pellet through him without thinking about it.
Yeah, he'd have a fat chance of doing that around me.
Thanks for the call.
Bye-bye.
Take care.
Ezekiel.
West of the Rockies.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
This is Bob from Sacramento.
Hi, Bob.
How are you?
Oh, Sacramento.
Sacramento.
Bob, did you happen to see the piece they ran on me?
Yes, I did.
I want to hear all about it because I haven't seen it.
Well, yeah.
In fact, I even taped it.
Oh, no kidding.
Yeah, so if you want it, you can give me address or something and I can send it to you.
I will absolutely supply you with an address.
In the meantime though, I'm curious what sort of... I'll tell you what, I've got a break coming up and you're on a toll-free line, so I'm going to hold you over.
And what I want you to do is try and remember most of the details about it.
Uh, in particular, what my wife said.
Because I have absolutely no idea.
And, uh, the angle they took on the piece.
And when we come back, we'll, uh... We'll see what that was all about.
Yeah, there was a whole very nice TV crew here, as a matter of fact, from Sacramento.
They run, I'm told, in other areas of the West.
But I started getting faxes saying, hey, Sion TV!
And, uh... I had no idea it was going to run that quickly.
Ah, well.
The electronic age, huh folks?
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
This is a teaser for the upcoming season of Coast to Coast.
Coast to Coast is a new season of the show.
It is a show that will take you to the end of the world.
It is a show that will take you to the end of the world.
You are faithful.
I'm out.
Well, I've just got a word.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast
to Coast AM from May 21st, 1997.
Well, I've just got a word.
There's been a couple of earthquakes.
The D-A-N-U-A-T-U Islands, a 6.4, 6.1 in southern India.
That might be very serious.
That we're just in, and we'll have to see how it develops.
So a couple of pretty big earthquakes.
Again, coinciding with a very full moon up there, as you know.
Alright, back now to Sacramento.
Thank you for hanging in there, sir.
No problem.
So, they ran a TV thing on me there in Sacramento.
What...
Oh, what was the angle?
Really, they just kind of talked about you, you know, how you like to take collars and explore, you know, the unknown, you know, Bigfoot and UFOs and stuff.
When they also interviewed your wife... I know, see, I wasn't around for that.
See, I was in here doing the program and the guy with the camera and the producer went into the other room and I had no idea they were doing that.
So what did my wife have to say?
She was just saying that she wishes that you could take a little more time off to relax a little bit.
You know, to take a break.
Yeah, she tells me that all the time.
And they also ran your story about your UFO.
Oh, really?
They were also showing clips from my Close Encounters from the third time.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
I thought that was kind of funny.
So it was a pretty good piece then?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was pretty enjoyable.
Oh, I want to see it.
Well, like I said, I've got that tape, and if you want it, I could send it out to you.
I would absolutely appreciate it.
Oh, and they also mentioned you're on 650 KST.
You bet I am.
Sure.
And they also mentioned how you really raised their ratings up to number one on the AM stations.
Well, that was not only kind, but true.
Thank you very much.
You like that, and all your fans would like that, too.
Yep, we do like that.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Take care.
It is true.
And we've done that just about everywhere we've gone.
And there's no magic to it.
It's just loose-anything-goes radio, and it's a little bit of a different diet than what's being served up everywhere else.
Apparently that's all it takes.
One of these days, the rest of the industry is going to wake up to that.
I hope.
All right.
Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Super Dave up here in Harp Country, Alaska.
Super Dave.
All right.
I like that name.
Super Dave.
Right.
Um, I just wanted to let you know that, uh, well, JC was hilarious.
I was rolling.
That was really funny.
You know, I don't even know what to make of that guy.
I vacillate between thinking, you know, that he is just a put-on, but you know what?
I really, I really don't think he is because I put him on the air one night for an hour.
I said, JC, I'm going to have you.
You remember that, do you?
Oh, yeah.
I was listening to it totally.
He points the finger just a little too much.
Um, yeah, and you know, like, he was really coming after me tonight.
He knows how I feel about cats, and so that was really a low blow, I thought.
Oh, that was, uh, the voice was hilarious.
You know, I wanted to, um, uh, ask you, I was watching a thing on Discovery Channel about, um, uh, Stealth Bomber and a few of the other planes.
They were talking about how they had, were flying that triangle-shaped plane back in 64.
And they were hiding it for that long, and then they showed a picture of an old plane, you know, that was really, you know, considerably smaller than the real one.
You know, it was like the shape of a car or something, you know.
And, or, you know, as small as a car.
And towards the end of the program, the guy was saying how they had unmanned floating platforms, and they showed this circular disk.
I couldn't believe the show and I wasn't recording it on VCR none at the time but I have been watching to see if they would repeat it and I was just you know I was like you know it's the government you know a lot of these discs people are seeing in Mexico you know it's not far from from you know area 51 you know I think it's the big scam.
Well, it's something, sir.
I don't know what.
But it's definitely something.
It's not nothing.
There's something really going on.
I'm getting a little frustrated with the whole thing.
That's why I had this very nice city council member on from Phoenix earlier.
People like that are not just doing this for attention.
This woman is getting clobbered.
She's asking legitimate questions about a craft that hovered above a major U.S.
city with two million people in the area for a substantial amount of time, and they're laughing at her.
That kind of makes me angry.
Right.
I mean, it's just like this big form of denial.
I mean, it's there, you know.
It's getting a little worse than that.
Thank you very much for the call, but it's getting worse than denial.
It's actually beginning to almost get me angry.
Why do we get a response to a legitimate question?
I mean, she is one of nine people who are on the City Council of Phoenix.
Thousands of people, not five, saw this.
It was captured on videotape.
It ran on national news.
It ran in Phoenix.
Blah, blah, blah.
It was real.
Whatever it was, it was real.
A real something.
And a request for an investigation of a real something brings derisive laughter.
And that makes me angry.
So I, you know, frankly I hope a lot of people call her up and give her support.
I really do.
I hope a lot of you call her up and give her support, particularly those of you who saw it and also feel that legitimate questions should not be poo-pooed.
And that people should not suffer politically simply because they ask questions.
If we come to that day and age, well then...
**explosion** **thunder**
**thunder** Well, what does it say here?
What?
Why am I the last to find out anything around here?
So you're going to advertise WebTV?
Yes, we found a very good company, and I've been wanting to advertise WebTV for a long time.
And this is a really good company.
So you're going to be buddies with Bill Gates, huh?
Well, I guess.
He bought it.
I've been experimenting with WebTV quietly for the last days, and I've got it here, and it is wonderful.
I was really pleasantly surprised with the efficiency of WebTV.
You know, for people who don't want to use a computer, but they want access to, for example, my website, Yeah, there's no question about it.
Web TV is the way to go.
Um, I'm a computer nut.
And so I do it through computers.
And I frankly had a lot of reservations about Web TV.
And boy, are they gone.
It is so easy.
I mean, you plug it in.
It says hi there, basically, and dials the number automatically connects you up and asks you where you want to go.
It is the simplest, user-friendly, important thing to happen in a long time.
So yes, within the next, I don't know, week or something, you're going to hear us advertising WebTV.
And I think the very best system out there right now.
That's all I'll say about it right now.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hey, Art, how you doing?
All right.
Turn your radio off, please.
I'm about to hit it.
This is good.
Yeah, I clicked on, before, yeah, I keep trying to get through and I never expect to get through and I heard you and boom, all of a sudden, oh, I got to run and turn my radio off.
There you go.
Hey, I got a question for you.
A while ago, you mentioned that someone had a, uh, an atomic bomb.
What would you do with it?
I remember that, yes.
Um, I'd make every person who owes money, U.S.
wise, to pay up.
Well, the trouble is that unless you could gather them all, the debtors that is, in one general area, And you'd have trouble with one bomb.
Right.
And you could only use it once, and then everybody else would laugh at you.
This is true.
Now, I've got another question for you.
The thing that happened in Arizona... Yes.
I've never seen... I work graveyard, so I've never seen any news or anything.
How serious was this?
Very serious.
Really?
Yes.
Very serious.
It went on for hours.
Holy cow.
It was hovering over a major U.S.
city.
Phoenix is a major U.S.
city by any measure.
And this poor city council lady, all she did was go to the city council and ask that there be some sort of investigation and, you know, the usual has happened to her.
Right.
See, that amazes me, because if as many people supposedly have seen this and have the proof, why is there so much of a supposed denial, we'll say?
I'm not sure it's exactly a denial because they can't deny what's captured on film.
What they're saying is, the city is saying, we don't have the facilities to investigate that.
We don't investigate that kind of thing.
We can't do it.
They're saying, the Air Force ought to do it.
The Air Force is saying, we don't investigate that kind of thing.
And I'm sitting here thinking, well, if the city fathers of a city that size don't care that something that big is hovering over them, That nobody knows what it is, then what good are they?
And if the Air Force, who is supposed to be protecting our skies, and our national security, isn't concerned about something that big hovering over major U.S.
cities' airspace, then what good are they?
Well, that depends on what you consider national security.
Oh, I'm sorry, by the way, I'm calling from Seattle.
Yes, sir.
From Como and KVI.
Yes, sir.
And I have a friend, we listen to you all the time.
And we debate this back and forth, and a friend of mine named Brian, and I'm Morris from Factoria, and the reason why I don't think it's really a national security issue is because I think they are our own ships that supposedly are so far advanced in technology.
I mean, that's the theory that him and I bounce back and forth with the government.
Well, alright, let's go with that for a second.
I'm willing to accept that scenario.
If they are that, then you would think at the very, very least, if they had these ships, they would not hover them over a two million area of population.
They would be somewhat more discreet and go out into the middle of the desert.
Not necessarily.
The best kept secret sometimes is right in front of your face.
Hiding in plain sight.
Exactly.
Well, then they're playing head games with us.
The military play head games?
Yep.
Oh, for sure!
Goodbye, sir.
Alright.
Here is a statement attributed to Walter Cronkite from the New American.
May 12, 1997.
I don't know if this is true, but supposedly it came from the New American.
Walter Cronkite.
If we are to avoid a nuclear World War II, quote, a system of world order, preferably a system of world government, is mandatory, declares Walter Cronkite in his recent book, A Reporter's Life, that proud nations someday will see the light, and for the common good and their own survival, yield up their precious sovereignty Just as America's 13 colonies did two centuries ago.
When we finally come to our senses and establish a world executive and parliament of nations, thanks to the Nuremberg precedent, we will already have in place the fundamentals for the third branch of government, the judiciary.
The judiciary.
You think Walter Cronkite really said that?
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Let me turn the radio off.
Good for you.
Good evening, Art, or you should say good morning.
I'm calling from Fairbanks, Alaska.
Well, even there, I think it's solidly morning now.
Yes, it is.
I'm so glad I got through.
Art, I want to say two things.
I listen to you the night that you asked us to meditate or to send our thoughts to whatever intelligence is out there.
Yes.
Well, I want to tell you, I did, and I've been meditating for the last 30 years, so I honestly shut your radio off and I did that, and about a half hour after I did that, the most Well, for me it was funny because I love the outdoors and living in Fairbanks, I miss living in the bush.
You know what I mean?
I do.
My window, my bedroom window faces an Alaska willow tree.
They're not like the willow trees down south.
And so it's big.
And guess what flew up on it and started cooing to me?
An owl?
An owl.
Oh, you're kidding.
I couldn't believe it.
I kind of kept on trying to meditate, but I couldn't meditate because I started giggling.
They won't come here that much in town.
It was the most beautiful owl.
I went to the window and I just looked at it and it just stayed there.
It didn't move or anything.
About three or four weeks ago on your show, it surprised me because someone on your radio station, I don't remember who it was, popped up about owls.
Owls, yes.
And I thought, I don't believe it!
I was really surprised and that's the first thing I wanted to tell you.
Well, it was wonderful.
I couldn't believe it, and I was wondering if other people had animal experiences that night.
Well, you know, I'll probably get put away, but I am firmly convinced that it is possible to communicate with animals.
Oh yes, oh yes.
With telepathy.
And I've got this wild cat of mine called Comet, and Comet is still pretty much a wild thing, but I can sit calmly by Comet and meditate and try and communicate with him and even without touching him he will start purring.
And I just darn well know that I am in some form of communication.
I can noticeably see him relax.
His ears come forward.
His muscles relax.
I just know it.
I mean I just know it.
People will think I'm crazy and I don't care.
Oh, I agree 100% with you.
The other thing I wanted to be on a more serious note, Art, I haven't been able to listen to you all the time because I honestly can't stay awake all night.
Has anybody been calling or saying anything about the aura of the planet?
You know how we have auras and all plant life has auras?
Right.
Since I was a little girl, I've always been able to see Especially if I go up to the, like on a horizon, you can see the aura of the planet.
I've not been aware of that, but I would imagine it could be so, sure.
Well, it's always been, my father told me that it's just part of the gift we have in our family.
So I suppose our aura has turned a dark poop brown.
No.
No?
No, no.
What I can understand is all my life, I was born in 1940, I'm going on 57, and what I couldn't understand is the wave of the aura is becoming more jagged.
And I was wondering if any of your people that you have on have said anything about it.
No, you're the first one.
But I would imagine, if the planet had an aura, which I wasn't aware of, that it would be, at the very least right now, getting a bit jagged.
It's not the normal waviness of it.
You know how an aurora is?
The waviness of the aurora?
Life on this planet, my dear, is becoming a little jagged.
Hey, listen, I'm going to give you the honors, because the program is over.
We're out of time.
So, from way up north in Fairbanks, Alaska... This is Fairbanks, Alaska, saying God bless you, Art Bale, and good night to the whole world.
Well, that's it.
Thank you, ma'am.
And from the high desert...
I'm Art Bell.
Thank you all.
Tomorrow night, don't forget Terrence McKenna.
You're going to find that fascinating.
We'll be talking about time.
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