On May 20, 1997, Art Bell hosted Anne Martin, whose book Food Pets Die For exposed rendering plants in Quebec processing euthanized dogs and cats—alongside roadkill, zoo animals, and condemned livestock—into meat meal with intact fur and sodium pentobarbital residue, despite industry claims of tag removal. Callers, including vets and plant workers, debated transparency, ethical concerns likening it to cannibalism, and health risks, though Martin found no U.S. laws banning the practice. Bell urged investigation into hidden pet food ingredients and questioned rigid abortion laws, arguing extreme medical cases demand nuanced judgment over absolute rules, while listeners demanded accountability from industries exploiting moral instincts for profit. [Automatically generated summary]
The following story is being related by a couple of young ladies in Higginsville, Missouri.
The two ladies were shopping in Kansas City last week.
Afterwards, they decided to eat at the Olive Garden, but there, they found a freshly deceased, freshly run over cat in their parking space.
One lady is especially, perhaps unreasonably fond of cats.
She could not stand the thought of leaving that dead cat there, so she took one of those brightly colored shopping bags, you know, the ones that stores give out at that time of year, and put the cat in it.
She intended to take it home and give it a proper burial.
But for the time being, she put it instead on the trunk of their car.
Then the two women went into the restaurant.
They ended up being seated in a raised area of that restaurant where they could see the car and they could see the people waiting to be seated.
Well, eventually, a nicely dressed woman walked by their car, saw the bag on the trunk, and stole it, slipping it quickly under her coat.
The thief then went on into the restaurant.
There is a round fountain there around which people sit while waiting for a table.
The woman with the bag under her coat sat on the steps of the fountain for a while.
Our young ladies watched her closely.
Apparently, she could no longer wait.
She couldn't resist looking at her newly stolen prize.
So she opened her coat and took a peek.
She fainted, dead out, fell on the floor.
The management called 911.
The ambulance arrived, and the woman, who was still unconscious, was taken out on a gurney.
As the paramedics were wheeling her out, someone said, wait a minute, here's her gift.
And they placed the lightly colored bag on her stomach and took her to the ambulance.
That's from Jack in Seattle.
So, you know, the reason I think I told you that story is because not only was it somewhat humorous in a macabre kind of way, but it shows the way we feel about our pets.
I have three cats, two relatively normal cats and one wild cat, Beryl.
And I love cats, and I really do love cats.
Don't ask me why, and I know a lot of you like dogs or cats or whatever.
And a lady called the program the other morning and said, Art, did you know that pet food in America is made up of, along with other things, cats and dogs?
And, you know, I do open line talk radio and I don't field calls here, as you probably understand.
I don't screen calls.
And so you're liable to get anything, and of course, that was under the category of anything, and I kind of doubted it.
I said, my God, I hope you're wrong.
You know, that's just too horrible to contemplate.
Well, inevitably, it apparently turns out to be true.
Now, I want to issue a warning at this point that what you're about to hear is going to disturb a lot of people.
And so I issue my normal invitation to twist the dial at this point, if you wish, and turn away.
Somebody will be talking about the budget that didn't or Newt Gingrich's fine that may not or something or another somewhere else on the dial.
Because what we are about to talk about is not going to be very easy to intellectually digest.
My guest comes from London.
Not London, England, but London, Ontario.
Her name is Anne Martin, and she has authored a book called, provocatively, Food Pets Die For.
A rendering plant, for those who don't know, is what?
unidentified
A rendering plant is a facility where all types of garbage go.
Dead animals of all kinds, restaurant grease and material, supermarket garbage.
It's all sent to a rendering plant.
These plants, well, put everything in a huge barrel, more or less, where it's cooked at varying temperatures for 20 minutes to an hour and is turned into, well, what we know as meat meal.
Now, I always wondered, Ann, I once, as a young radio person, I had to go to an animal shelter and watch a little dog be put to sleep by a decompression method.
And it was horrible.
It was horrible.
You know, it will scar me for the rest of my life having seen that.
Now, you're telling me that they take these poor, unfortunate animals, killed in whatever manner they kill them, and turn them into pet food.
unidentified
Right.
But, I mean, not just pet food, they also use it for livestock feed.
So in a roundabout way, we in turn are eating our pets.
Well, Ann, if that can happen because cows are eating cows, then what can happen if cats are eating cats, dogs are eating dogs, or even worse yet, to contemplate, we are eating eventually the byproducts of our own pets?
unidentified
There again, the drugs I know here anyway, they use sodium pentabarbital to euthanize the dogs and cats.
And they do use a compound, I believe it's called Fatal Plus, to euthanize some larger animals throughout Canada in the U.S. This drug withstands the rendering process.
now how are these animals rendered i mean do they uh...
unidentified
dogs have for long and short what the book book how how did how do they do He advised me that cats and dogs are rendered with their fur on, with their tags, if they have flea collars on.
The bags, the plastic bags that they're sent to the rendering plant in from vet clinics and so on, they're rendered.
Suppose I take, even though it's very difficult for me, I take the opposite position just to argue it.
And I say, look, these pets are either unwanted or they're ill and they've been put to sleep and they do represent protein and it somehow or another doesn't hurt other dogs and cats to eat dogs and cats.
And they don't know what they're doing.
And it is a protein of a sort.
And so then what are you raising the fuss about?
What do you say?
unidentified
I feel people have to know what can and does happen to their pets when they're euthanized and also that these pets are being recycled.
Does some obscure little truck pull up behind the veterinary clinics and collect up all the dead animals or the animal shelters or whatever and collect them all up?
unidentified
Dead stock removal company.
And that is done in a lot.
And it is, as you say, done virtually in the middle of the night.
The truck picks them up and hauls them off.
And there again, people, the vets, assume they're being incinerated.
I warn you, the material we're covering right now is not easy intellectually or emotionally to digest.
Pun intended.
If you can't handle this kind of information and or if you have children around, I suggest you get them out and either listen yourself or if you're in their category, go elsewhere.
I'm serious.
My guest is Ann Martin, and she wrote a book called Food Pets Die For.
In other words, how do you take a whole animal, bag, tag, fur, and all, and render it into something that can be turned into food?
How do you do that?
I'm not sure I really want to know, but I've got to ask.
unidentified
No, it is disgusting, but what is done is the animals are taken to a rendering plant, and there are quite a few all over Canada in the U.S. The animals are put in a machine that grinds, I mean grinds everything up.
From there, they go down into a cauldron, more or less, where it's cooked at, well, I guess it's around 220 Fahrenheit for about 20 minutes.
Horses, the 4D animals, the dead, diseased, dying, and disabled cattle, the ones that die in the field, the condemned and contaminated material from slaughterhouse facilities, roadkill, zoo animals.
All right, I've got a fax here from Sharon in Southern Oregon that I want to read to you and just get your reaction.
It says, Art, my friend in England said that there, dead dogs and cats taken to be cremated instead are shipped to rendering plants to produce oils for lipstick and other cosmetics.
The fat from dogs is most desirable.
This man is a third generation terrier man and very knowledgeable about what goes on.
Could that be true?
unidentified
It could be in England.
I don't think you would find that.
In the U.S. and Canada, there are different rendering facilities.
There's a rendering facility that will render for human consumption.
Now, that would be material left from slaughterhouse facilities like fats and so on that have been inspected as fit for human use.
That would be what would be rendered.
In this area, there are, I believe, two rendering facilities for that.
And I know this is really horrible to consider, but we have had many stories in our country, this country, of elderly Americans who are so poor that they Have taken to eating pet food, canned pet food.
unidentified
I think that's been around for some time now.
I think if you look at the price of pet food and you look at the price of, say, a can of tuna, the tuna would likely be cheaper.
I really don't think you're going to find people eating dog and cat food.
I talked to our Minister of Agriculture about that, and he said in doing a survey and doing work with people, he hadn't found any.
Their department hadn't found any that were actually eating pet food.
That it seemed, other than the articles I've written for publications in the U.S. and that, it seemed the only way to make people aware not only of the companion animals in the pet food, but everything else they're feeding their pets that is in the commercial products.
And the fact that despite what vets say and despite what the industry says, we can feed our pets human food and they survive a lot longer.
They're a lot healthier.
I often point out that if these people, if they're not old enough, ask their mother, ask their grandmother when they were children.
They had pets.
Those pets were, and I can remember my own mother after dinner, put any leftovers in the dog's bowl.
That's what they ate.
You can't remember taking a pet to a vet because it was, it had cancer, it had allergies.
Those pets died of old age or were killed by a car.
Followed, maybe watched a pickup and followed, see where it goes and how the animals are disposed of?
unidentified
No, no.
I was invited by one inspector for the government to go with him to one of the rendering plants.
And I asked, and I don't think I could have gone, but I asked to go to a particular rendering plant where I knew cats and dogs were being rendered, and he said no.
The gentleman that did the article did get into a rendering plant under the guise that he was going in there so people would know enough to have their pets spade or neutered because this is what was happening to them.
You know, I always thought that the reason not, I mean, the reason to spade and neuter was so that animals wouldn't have to be put asleep, not so they could be turned into pet food.
unidentified
No, no, his whole point was have your pets spade or neutered, or this is how they're going to end up.
To me, it seems apocalyptic, and I wonder how the people who are in management decision-making positions who do know what's going on can live with themselves.
unidentified
It's money, and money seems to be the whole point.
It's dogs and cats, roadkill, what have you, are a cheap source of protein.
And if it's cheap and can be used, they'll use it.
And you get the thing that it's a means of disposal.
Again, in England, we've got this horrid thing, cows being fed cows.
We end up with mad cow disease.
We end up with brain problems in humans.
Is it not possible?
I mean, what is the difference between that and what they're doing here?
In other words, if dogs are eating dogs and cats, cats are eating cats, isn't it possible that exactly the same thing, maybe with some horrible little twist or modification, could come out of this process?
I mean, they did it a lot of years in Great Britain before mad cow disease began.
unidentified
Oh, yes, yes, definitely.
There's no doubt.
I've questioned the U.S. government and a number of veterinarians in the U.S. as far as could dogs and cats develop this disease, not only from eating dogs and cats, but from eating livestock in the U.S., because the material that's going into the dog and cat food is, well, the worst of the worst.
And cats in England, there are over 100 now that have died from this disease.
Let me tell you a little story, Anne, because I think it relates.
Linda Moulton Howe on this program reported last week on a strange, stupid little microorganism that's half plant and half animal, if you can imagine that, that lurks in a hibernated, I guess it'd be the best way to put it, state, either at the bottom of fresh or salt water.
When enough pollutants and runoff from pig farming and all the other things going on on the Carolina coast finally reach these little dormant organisms, they suddenly spring to life like little time bombs.
And what they do is they begin killing fish by the millions.
And then there's one other awful thing about it.
It seems to have a great taste for human blood.
And I don't know why what you're telling me in mad cow disease reminds me of that.
I guess in the broader sense, Anne, I'm beginning to conclude that there's something ready to bite us in the butt for every wrong, horrible thing we do.
And this sounds like another one of those.
unidentified
Agreed.
Agreed.
As far as the dogs with this disease, I'm concerned.
There has been a case reported in Norway, but they haven't finished the autopsy on this dog, but it looks as if it may have died of mad cow.
Is it actual mad cow or is it a variation of mad cow?
unidentified
It's the feline and canine form affecting the animals in the same way as it does the cows.
I have asked doctors in the U.S. if, in fact, because the symptoms are so similar, if dogs in the U.S. and Canada could be dying of this disease and it has gone more or less undetected, undiagnosed, or diagnosed as a neurological disease in dogs?
The subject is one of the roughest ones you're ever going to hear.
I know a lot of you probably won't believe this.
Anne has authored a book called Food Pets Die For, and she means that quite literally.
And Los Angeles and San Francisco have joined at this hour.
And Anne is in London, Ontario, in Canada.
And the fact of the matter is, here in America and there, in Canada, and across most of the rest of the world, the animals that we have as pets, dogs, cats, whether they're taken to a vet and euthanized or out of some animal shelters,
not all, roadkill, all of these things are taken to something called rendering plants where they are dumped with their fur complete and their bodies complete along with the metal tags or whatever else into this horrible godforsaken mixture of whatever goo it is that's turned into pet food.
And again, we've been touching on mad cow disease and a lot of other things.
Hey, I've got an article here, Anne.
It says this came from the Mad Cow Disease website.
Recycled pets and potential for TSE amplification.
Assuming that a tiny fraction of cats with BSE, FSE, ever get diagnosed as such, which is quite an assumption, no diagnosis at all is most likely.
There would indeed be a potential for recycling the disease should these infected cats be non-discriminately rendered for pet food.
And then from the summer 96 Earth Island Journal, the rendering plant flora is piled high with raw product.
Thousands of dead dogs, cats, head, hooves from cattle, sheep, pigs, horses, whole skunks, rats, raccoons, all waiting to be processed in the 90-degree heat.
The piles of dead animals seem to have a life of their own as millions of maggots swarm over the carcasses.
And you're telling me, without naming products, we obviously can't do that.
As I discussed with Ann earlier, when I took my cat in to be euthanized, crying and I was just emotionally distraught, and the cat was euthanized, the vet told me he would take care of the body.
But we've got this little problem, this mad cow disease thing where cows being fed to cows or cow product being fed to cows has caused a disease that has now jumped to humans.
Shouldn't we be concerned?
unidentified
Well, yes, and we need to address those concerns if in fact that is the case of what's going on.
But if you render meat at 400 degrees for four to eight hours, depending on the size of the load, there aren't very many bacterias that are viruses that can survive that.
In fact, a week and a half ago, I guess it was just outside of London, a dead stock removal company went to pick up a sheep or a pig or whatever, and there were dead dogs in the back.
My Christian neighbor told me the other day that it says somewhere in the Bible that in the last days, companion animals and livestock would all go crazy and attack their owners.
Maybe we are hearing here why.
unidentified
I don't doubt it, especially as you say with the mad cow situation.
We have no way of knowing the magnitude of problems it generates because we don't do autopsies.
We don't look into why most of these animals die.
All right, here's one from the other side, Ann.
See if you can answer it.
Art, I'm surprised you didn't know about rendering.
I'm an old farm boy, and I'm well aware of the process.
It's grotesque, ugly, but it's absolutely necessary.
Where do you think the billions of pets and other animals we use cow disposables go when they die?
Something has to be done with the waste, in quotes.
I share the sentiment and discuss, but Art, the alternative is unspeakable.
Best regards, Gary and Peoria, Arizona.
What is the alternative?
unidentified
The only alternative is incineration.
What I have suggested is the pet food companies have told us that we don't use companion animals in the food.
These foods are wonderful.
What they should do is take some of their money that they use for advertising dollars and invest it in some incinerators so we can have these animals disposed of in a proper means.
We were just trying to discourage that process because the pet food companies got wind of it after a while, and they wouldn't accept our product, so we had to discontinue taking the dogs and the cats.
Now, I've got an article in front of me from the Earth Island Journal by Dr. Wendell Belfield, I believe it is, B-E-L-F-I-E-L-D.
And he begins the article, it's a long article, but he begins it by saying, the most frequently asked question in my practice is, which commercial pet food do you recommend?
My standard answer is none.
When the label reads, meat and bone meal, that includes dogs and cats.
So there's something to back you up.
And it's just, it's unbelievable.
And I've got one other I want to read, and then we'll go back to the phones.
Dear Art, after the first time this pet food situation was mentioned on your show, I called the animal shelter to ask what happened to the animals they euthanized.
I was told that a truck came and picked them up.
So, I called another animal shelter and was told a rendering truck came to pick them up.
First of all, God bless you for coming forward for us people like Mr. Bell who never knew.
And this hurts more than I can express.
I have three things I'd like to tell you, and then make a recommendation, if I may, Mr. Bell.
Go ahead.
First of all, in this country of ours, the FDA, which inspects for human consumption, has made the statement that there are certain percentages of rodent, rodent hares, things that are allowed in foods.
This is a fact.
Also, minions of pet owners, many that love their pets, dogs, cats, like many love their children.
But what I'd like to make a recommendation of, because I'm looking at a magazine about cats and animals, and looking through the various ads and the things that they say with chicken and turkey and so forth, along with vegetables, we think that that's all that's in the food.
This has been a deception.
This has been, we've been lied to.
What do the laws have to say?
What can we do besides boycotts to make sure that we stop this?
Well, they should, if it is a cremation service, they should have no problem telling you exactly where they're located.
And if they don't tell me, that's very suspicious.
And my other question was, you know, what about the agents that go into these animals, like the euthanasia agents, the controlled substances and heavy metals?
Exactly.
And the antibiotics that are used on these animals.
And most animals at vet clinics are treated with some type of antibiotic.
Maybe we can push a little bit and get somebody to do that violence.
unidentified
Maybe the pet food company should.
Yeah.
How about, now, most bigger cities do have local zoos and whatnot, and the zoos are getting animals, you know, a lot of the meat isn't cooked.
The big cats, for instance, eat raw meat.
If they're supposedly trying to preserve wildlife, or whatever you want to call it in some cases, should they be aware of all this going on too?
We had an incident up here where there was a problem with a barbituid that it was either coming from the meat or it was purposely injected into the animal.
Right.
Right.
That does happen quite often.
And I think Dr. Belfield in California knew of an incident like that, too.
However, ma'am, you're at the top of the food chain.
So obviously, if animals are being fed to animals, like animals to like animals and that sort of thing, and you're at the top of the food chain, then somewhere along the line, it's eventually going to get to you.
unidentified
I was thinking like hot dogs and things like that.
Now, what about legislation or a law that would require pet food producers to list the specific ingredients in the food?
unidentified
I don't think we have pet food companies in business if that was the case.
If consumers read on the labels exactly what was in it.
No, I don't think we'll ever see that happen.
And don't forget, that would be fighting a billion-dollar industry.
And I know from experience with different government agencies, it won't happen.
It won't happen.
It never will happen.
They have an organization, U.S., it's called, it's a trade organization, the Association of American Feed Control Officials, and they have state government representatives.
Last year, I wrote every state in the U.S., these representatives.
I asked if they prohibited the use of rendered companion animals in pet food.
I received replies back, I think, from 27 states in the U.S. Not one state prohibits the use of rendered companion animals in pet food.
Okay, well, I was using a store brand, but they discontinued it.
Okay.
Because he has urinary history.
But I've almost lost him twice.
Well, because I have to buy that brand, which is the more expensive, I'm PO'd.
But what do I do?
Because I have two cats and it works for both because she doesn't need it, but he does.
It has to have the ash level, magnesium.
I would love to switch to things like tuna and meats and whatever, but then how do I provide the minerals so that his urinary trash is protected?
I mean, what do I do?
Okay, now, if you want to feed a homemade diet, if I were you, I would be inclined to get even Dr. Pitt Karen's book, who will, that book will give you exactly what you should be feeding the cat.
I have a cat that had the same problem, and as I say, he's been on a homemade diet for seven years, and he's never had a reoccurrence of the problem.
Is there any way for us to know what percentage of illness that our pets have, or even temperament, or all the rest of it, is due to this horrid, horrid thing we've been talking about?
unidentified
No.
As I say, with virtually no research done in the area, no.
Any research that would be done in the area would be done by vet colleges.
You've got to remember that the vet colleges are funded to quite an extent by the pet food industry.
They're not going to research something that is going to affect the industry.
Ann, when you go to the store, there's a wide variety of prices for pet food.
Can you make any sort of assumption that if you pay top dollar and get the greatest hoxy-topsy, latest formula for animals, that you're not getting rendered food?
unidentified
No.
No.
mean what is in that if you check the labels the labels of the cheap ones and the labels of the expensive ones there's very little difference in the ingredients used read labels when uh when and is your book uh going well you said september uh where is it going to be available it'll be available all over the u.s and canada it's being published by uh new sage press in portland oregon well i wish there was a number
was something we could give out now so people could get your books but that's not going to happen until September right that's right I can give you the number of new sage all right that's a lead sure go ahead okay darn that's right if you're able to dig it up otherwise you know what I'll do and I'll have you on again in September when your book actually comes out okay
unidentified
I
when you went to them with this book what did they say well let's put it this way a very good friend of mine uh who has a number of books published uh was very enthusiastic about this book and they are his publishers dr. Michael Fox is vice president of the humane society of the U.S. And he has written a forward to the book and they were they were very pleased they weren't afraid of it no well
a lot of the press is going to be afraid of this ann yes I know scared to death of it and again your email address in case anybody in the press would like to follow up is jmartin this is all lowercase just jmartin at gtn.net right you're going to get a lot of email and oh that's fine do you have time to go through a lot of email oh yeah all right by all means and uh search out uh the responses
from newspapers and broadcast facilities, and I think that our best chance is being as public as possible.
I've never, frankly, heard this discussed on the airwaves before, ever.
I want to thank you for being on the program, and I want to rebook you, so I'm going to hold on to this, because I want to bring you back in September when your book comes out.
That's Anne Martin in London, not England, Ontario, where it's got to be coming up on 4 o'clock in the morning.
unidentified
Her book...
food pets die for and my guess would be uh you're thinking real hard about what you've just heard again her email address is jmartin at gtn.net i'm art bell and straight ahead open minds you're listening to art bell somewhere in time on premiere radio networks tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast a m from may 20th 1997.
you're listening to art bells somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a.m from may 20th 1997 top of the morning to you and i uh in a way i apologize for the last two hours uh not really i mean i i in the sense that i know that it was hard to take for a lot of you but sometimes there is a story that nobody else you know has told that needs to be told sit back think about it think about whether you feel
it's right or wrong and what should be done and i'll leave it at that i'm going to briefly cover uh some of the news uh that is worth covering and tell you what's coming up for the rest of the week.
I think I've got a pretty interesting lineup for you.
We're about to enter open lines, unscreened, anything goes, talk radio.
I want to remind my audience that beginning in less than one month, this program will begin one hour earlier.
One hour earlier.
Beginning in a month, actually less than a month now.
That will also apply to Dreamland beginning at 6 p.m. Pacific time instead of 7.
But Coast will begin at 10 West Coast time or 1 o'clock in the morning in the east.
Make adjustments for other time zones as you will.
The president has vowed to veto the abortion bill.
We're talking about the controversial so-called partial birth abortion bill.
And I agree with the president.
I absolutely agree with the president, and I'm going to tell you why.
And I know it's going to be disagreeable for a lot of anti-abortion people out there.
It's not that I want partial birth abortion, which is just a horrible procedure, in which the baby's head, the baby is virtually in the process of being born and is virtually murdered in that process.
It's really absolutely a horrible procedure involving its brain.
It's horrible.
I know that.
However, the president in this case, in my opinion, is right.
Not right in trying to make this more common.
And I don't necessarily believe that he's trying to do that.
But before I comment on a situation, I try to bring it home.
And when I bring a situation like this home, I think the following.
If my wife was pregnant, if my wife was about to deliver, and a doctor came to me and said, Mr. Bell, Ramona is experiencing last-minute complications.
There's nothing that can be done.
The baby is down the birth canal and some sort of internal hemorrhage or, you know, God knows what can go wrong.
Rare, I believe, one in a thousand, maybe.
But I guarantee you, if that doctor came to me and said, to continue with this birth will kill your wife, or in all probability will kill your wife.
I'm sorry, there's no choice there.
There's absolutely no choice.
And I would tell that doctor to do what he has to do to save my wife's life.
Now I know that that doesn't go down easily in a lot of quarters.
That's just too damn bad.
That's the choice I would make.
And I don't see why this legislation cannot be narrowed so that only in cases where a mother's life is truly in danger in the birth process is such a thing ever done, ever done.
Nobody wants this to be common or even semi-common.
Nobody in their right mind.
But if it means the life of my wife, God help anybody who gets in the way of my making the decision to save my wife's life.
So until they get it right, I agree with the president.
The other big story is the Air Force delay of the court-martial of 1st Lieutenant Kelly Flynn.
And this story has changed radically as the day has gone on.
I don't know if you've been listening carefully, but CNN has been carrying a very different kind of story with Lieutenant Flynn's lover, past, I now presume, saying, look, she lied.
And in fact, she was at, in fact, even the ex-wife said she was at my house having dinner with me and my children.
She didn't care about my feelings.
The ex-lover said Flynn lied.
Now, that's a very different story than we had a day ago.
Day ago it was, I'm Lieutenant Flynn, I'm a B-52 pilot, I did something human, I was lied to, and I lied.
That was the original story, right?
I was lied to and I lied.
Okay, under those circumstances, you can say to Aeris Human, the good old boy network did a lot of it and they did and they got away with it, and we all know it's damn well true.
Pilots who screwed around on their wives probably got called on it by commanders, and the good old boy network took care of it.
Now, this is beginning to turn into a different kind of case.
My sympathies at first were with Lieutenant Flynn.
But it appears, if you believe what we're being told in the last, well, I don't know, 24 hours, that she lied a lot.
Now, here's somebody who flies a B-52 and is charged with transporting the nation's most lethal nuclear devices, and I'll tell you something about the military.
I was in the Air Force, and one thing that You did not do is fraternize.
That's bad enough on the face of it.
Now, if that was all that it was, I would have been prepared to say she didn't do anything any different than anybody else or many others have done, and she shouldn't be treated any differently.
And I would have been on her side.
In the last 24 hours, I think what has been revealed is a very different story.
The NTSB is urging, urging airlines to take steps, to certain steps, to prevent explosions in airline fuel tanks.
Interesting.
I wonder what they're going to do.
Marv Albert, among the most recognizable sportscasters in America, has now been indicted on forcible sodomy and assault battery charges stemming from an alleged February 12th incident in a Virginia hotel room.
Arlington police say Albert was charged Monday in Arlington Circuit Court with one felony count of forcible sodomy and one misdemeanor count of assault and battery.
An unidentified woman claimed that Albert hit her, forced her to commit sodomy at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Arlington.
Police say the 41-year-old Vienna Virginian native had known Albert for 10 years.
Albert, a broadcaster for NBC Sports, and the New York Knicks, denies all the charges in a statement says he will fight them.
I, uh...
I want to tell you what's coming up tomorrow night, but before I do, let me give you some current news just in case you have seen this.
This is from Albuquerque, and it's entitled Strange Light Over Albuquerque Near Sunset Today.
Late this afternoon, Art, myself and others observed a bright white light in the western sky.
It was diamond-shaped, with the wider dimension of the diamond horizontal and the shorter dimension vertical.
At first, I thought it was either a plane approaching from the west with landing lights on, or a reflection from the sun off the bottom of a jet or weather balloon.
I changed this opinion as the object very slowly moved away toward the west and did not significantly diminish in brightness as the sun faded.
It was eventually lost behind the clouds.
It was visible for at least half an hour, so the movement was indeed very, very slow.
Did you get any similar reports from Arizona or California?
Anything official?
Strangest thing I've seen in a long time, definitely in the wrong direction, to be anything from White Sands.
Lewis.
Lewis, I received a number of faxes and emails from the Albuquerque area.
Yes, something indeed was seen.
Now, this leads us into what we're going to do for a little bit tomorrow night.
As you know, there was a big UFO flap in Arizona.
And I've got an article here from the Arizona Republic entitled, City Probe of UFOs is Grounded.
Phoenix has no air force.
Phoenix may have opened an X-file on recent UFO sightings over the city, but don't expect it to confirm the existence of Arizona-bound extraterrestrials.
Councilwoman Frances Emma Barwood recently asked the city staff to look into reports of bright lights in the city's March skies.
The staff's finding, the city doesn't have an Air Force, so there isn't much to tell.
Frances Emma Barwood is a city councilwoman in Phoenix.
She would like an investigation to find out what the hell happened in Phoenix.
I'm going to have her on the program tomorrow night.
We'll see what she has to say.
Very courageous woman, and normally when you begin talking about this kind of thing, particularly if you are in elected office, you put yourself in jeopardy.
So I say hooray for her, and I wish there were more like her around the U.S. Anyway, tomorrow night, she'll be here.
The following evening, I'm going to have on from the big island of Hawaii, Terrence McKenna, who has a theory called time wave zero.
We're going to talk to Terrence about time.
What time is, and what we are approaching.
He is suggesting that as we get closer to time wave zero, we'll find out what that is, we are experiencing tachyon radiation.
Evidently, the impending event, does that sound familiar, is so colossal that it will emit such intense radiation that some of it takes the form of faster-than-light-speed tachyon particles or waves, which, because they travel faster than light, are actually being hurtled backward in time.
The closer we get to this event, the greater the radiation density, hence the more frequently and intently we experience paranormal phenomena associated with it.
That's going to be the next night.
Now, Friday night, Saturday morning at midnight, Victor is going to be here.
If you have not yet seen the second photograph of what is said to be an interrogation of an alien creature at Area 51, then you had better get up to my website and take a look.
It is a world exclusive.
This photograph is nowhere else.
And the man Who allegedly took this video from which this photograph comes?
Victor, he is called, will be interviewed here for an hour beginning at midnight, Friday night, Saturday morning, Pacific Time.
He will be using a voice-changing device.
Following Victor's appearance here, or concurrent with, I'm not sure yet, we'll have Sean David Morton.
I may invite Whitley Streeber, who has seen that videotape many times, in its entirety, a luxury we have not had, and was greatly, significantly emotionally affected by what he saw.
I don't know, I'm still working on that.
He has certainly offered to appear.
And so I've got to give Whitley a call probably tomorrow or so and see how that show is going to shape up.
But then it'll be followed by Sean David Morton on Friday night, Saturday morning.
So that's the way the rest of this week is going to shape up.
That's the news.
And now we're going to have open lines.
Anything all of you want to talk about is fair game.
I thought very hard about it because we're bumping heads here with an apparent rather dark multi-billion dollar industry, and we're exposing knowledge that the American people simply never had.
unidentified
I just never had a clue.
I have a cat.
Her name is Weasel, and I do everything I can to take good care of her, and I'll spend whatever it takes to make sure that she stays healthy.
And I'm just thank God that I listened to your show tonight.
I just wanted to call in to find out more about it.
Okay, I'm going to make this program available right now.
That's what I'm going to do.
It's a two-hour program that we just did.
If you want it, call beginning now.
I would imagine that would be the best thing you could do right now is get the program, share it with your friends, share it with media in your town, get the program.
It's all very painfully detailed in the program, and I really think that's our best shot.
So get that program, and as I said, share it with friends.
People you care about.
If you feel about animals the way I do, actually, if you feel about the human race the way I do, you will do exactly that because that's information you will never get, as far as I know, anywhere else, unless the press gets off their dead butt.
unidentified
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1997.
Oh, don't leave me this way.
I can't live, can't live my life.
Without your own, you won't leave me away.
I can't exist, I'll surely miss your tender kiss, don't leave me this way.
Baby, my heart is full of love, I desire for you, now come on down and do what you gotta do.
You started this fire down in my soul, now can't you see it's burning, I control.
Come on down and find the needy, only your good lovin'can set me free, don't leave me.
Don't you leave me this way, no Don't you understand I'm not gonna be
I met your command.
Remember Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 20th, 1997.
I think this may, look, two things about Ann Martin and the two hours we did.
Number one, please call and get those two hours shipped off to you.
Because I don't think you're going to get this information anywhere else, period.
Item two, she gave an email Address, Keith Rowan, my webmaster, now has Anne's email address up on my website.
So if you didn't get it, if you're used to going to my website, if you have a computer, web TV, whatever, go up to my website and you'll be able to send her email merely by clicking on her name.
I thought I would read this to you and see if this resonates with you.
Art, for sure, there will be people calling in and saying, oh, what's the big deal?
And it comes from deep within us and has no speakable expression.
We just know within ourselves that it is wrong to feed a cat to a cat or a dog to a dog.
To allow ourselves to be reasoned out of what our deepest knowledge and instinct tells us is to be robbed of our individual faculties to the point we could eventually be convinced it's okay to eat each other.
Using virtually the same arguments that were used to make us accept the horrendous rendering process described by Anne.
We have to hold fast to our instincts and senses.
Regina in Seattle.
And I could not have said it better, Regina.
There are those who will certainly come forward and say, well, what's wrong with doing it?
Well, in your heart, in your mind, in your most basic instinctual feelings as a human being, you know damn well it's wrong.
You know, Ann Martin turned out to be somebody who just wrote a book on the subject, did a lot of research, and so she seemed logical, and I thought she did a very cogent presentation.
unidentified
Oh, yes.
I'm sorry I missed the first hour.
Also, I think Leonard Horowitz, it seems to be like right up his alley.
And there were a few things about it, and one of the things is like what you just read, while cats are carnivorous, they are not cannibalistic.
I find that very difficult to believe since we have not been able to achieve, but for a very split second, the fusion process in the biggest labs that we have in the world.
How did he do that?
unidentified
He did it because he didn't go to school and they didn't tell him that he couldn't do it.
And he was working quantum mechanics, and he tied in with Stephen Hawking.
Well, look, I'm not a doctor, and I don't pretend to know, but I guess even anti-abortion forces will admit that rarely, occasionally, there is in the process of birth, in other words, partial birth, a critical situation that develops that cannot be handled by C-section.
Again, I'm not a doctor, sir, but all I know is this.
If it was my wife, and if a doctor came to me and said, look, the baby is well down the birth canal or even nearly out, and we can't continue, there's hemorrhaging going on, it's either the baby or it's your wife, there's no contest.
unidentified
My wife's pregnant right now, and I understand that, you know.
What I don't understand, thank you, is good luck to you, by the way.
What I don't understand is why the people who are trying to draft this law cannot do what the Supreme Court always says people should do when trying to decide these matters that are near godlike, decisions that are near godlike.
For God's sakes, why can't we say when there really is a verifiable danger to the mother's life, should the process continue, even though it be at the last moment, that the doctor can make that decision?
And that if there is not that danger, and that can be medically determined, then we're talking about murder here.
Why can't reasonable people get together and draft a reasonable law?
What the hell is the matter with these people that we're sending back to Washington?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hey, Arg, this is Bill Ann Birmingham, listening on WAPI 1070.
Listen, I just wanted to let you know, they did do some changes in that bill that protects a doctor who is delivering a baby and runs into complications and must unexpectedly abort the baby or the fetus because the mother's life is in jeopardy.
Ayah, there should not be a problem as long as that is specifically part of the bill.
And it may be that the bill is still too wide or has become too narrow.
I really don't know.
I just know that I know the way I feel.
And I know the way I think most men would feel.
And if that's taken care of, then I don't see what The problem is, and I would like somebody to explain it to me why the threatened veto was to the Rockies.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
Good morning, Art.
This is Charlie over here in Medford, Oregon Calling.
I was wanting to find out: did you catch on TLC channel tonight the special one-hour thing they had on Area 51?
Well, I was able to catch the first 20 minutes of it before I had to head out the door and go to work, but basically, they went on to Area 51 with a camera crew.
Now that is in Area 51 in an elevator going down below area 51.
What do you think they've got down there?
I have a hard time swallowing that, but A. Anything's possible, I suppose.
However, if I had a camera crew and I could get on Area 51 somehow if they would take me there, which I doubt, A. B. Um, if they were to take me in and take me down an elevator and show me something or another, would I have confidence that I saw what was really there in its totality?
Not a chance.
So I doubt it first, but secondly, even if that did occur, and I will check into it, yes, I'd love to see that.
If it really did occur, then I doubt they saw anything other than what the people there wanted them to see.
Well, we're already getting pretty much of an indication that the majority of the stations are going to be following us to the earlier hour.
Now, not all of them will.
Not all of them will.
However, in cases where they don't, the breakpoint is going to be 3 o'clock.
In other words, it's still going to be a five-hour show.
So here in the Pacific time zone, if you miss the first part of it, you're going to begin catching up at 3 a.m. because they're going to go into replay at 3.
But again, this fact from Regina in Seattle says it for me.
In other words, we have instincts as human beings.
We may have masked a lot of our instincts, but we still have them.
And we know, and you know, most of you anyway, deep down in your heart, you know what's wrong.
You know what is profoundly wrong, and that is profoundly wrong.
Accountibalism in any form is wrong.
That's my opinion.
That's my instinct.
And apparently it's a reality.
unidentified
You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1997.
When he came across this young man sewing on the fiddle and playing it hot, and the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, boy, let me tell you what.
I guess you didn't know it, but I am a fiddle player too.
And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
Now, you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his view.
I'll get a fiddle of gold against your soul, so I think I'm better you.
The boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin, but I'll take your bet, you're going to regret, because I'm the best it's ever been.
Johnny, Ross, up your boy, play your fiddle heart.
Don't help a loose Georgia man, but the devil feels a heart.
And if you and you get this shiny little made of gold.
Ooh, and it's all right, it's coming home.
We gotta get right back where we started going.
Nothing good, nothing wrong.
We gotta get right back where we started going.
Ah, ah, ah.
Do you remember me?
That's a shiny little made.
When you first came my way, I said no one could take your way.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're listening to Arkbell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1997.
Dear, the Santorum bill allows for intact dilation and extraction only to be used to save the woman's life, not to protect the health.
By contrast, the alternative proposed by Daschell, endorsed by Clinton, banned all late-term abortions except when needed to save a woman's right to life or protect her health from grievous injury.
The health and grievous injury is what Clinton supports.
The term is a broad in legal terms.
It results in abortion on demand.
All right, well, nobody but a damn fool or a person interested in genocide would support abortion on demand late term or this horrible little thing that occurs at the end.
But again, I'm going to say this, and I really mean it.
I don't know what these damn fools are doing in Washington on both sides of this issue.
And I am absolutely beside myself that they cannot come to a reasonable conclusion regarding this awful thing known as partial birth abortion.
And I know that in the medical world there are many, many, many circumstances, and each one of them are different.
And the only way I can think of to tell you this, and I'll tell it to you again, if a doctor came to me and said, Mr. Bell, your wife is, the baby's already in the birth canal or partially out or whatever, and there's internal hemorrhaging going on or whatever in God's name could cause her death, and the doctor said to proceed with this birth is going to kill your wife in all likelihood.
But I'm sorry, Mr. Bell.
I can't do it because there's a law that says that I've got to opt to save the child, not the mother.
If I had it, I'd take a gun and I'd put it to his head until he did what I told him to do, which would be to save my wife.
I think it's rare.
I think it's very rare.
And what is really ticking me off is that the people back in Washington can't get it together enough so that on the one hand, we don't let every abortion on request go through and that we're not killing babies for horrid reasons that have nothing to do with saving the mother's life.
But then on the other hand, even if it's extremely rare, we cannot take care of cases where it's one life versus the other.
Now, why is it not possible for those people that we elect and send back there to waste our money to get together as reasonable men as defined by the Supreme Court, reasonable, the word reasonable, and come up with a reasonable solution that both sides can live with?
What the hell do we pay them for?
So that's my comment.
I don't want partial birth abortion, but I also don't want the other side of the coin.
I don't want some law that says my wife's life can't be saved.
I'm not a doctor, and I suppose many of you aren't either.
And I know there are strong opinions on both sides.
It's like right down the middle, 50, 50.
All I know is there are lots of different medical circumstances.
I was a medic in the Air Force.
I know about that much.
And each one of them is individual and specific.
And so I don't think there's any easy answer to this.
But I think there is a reasonable conclusion that can be come to and written as law if necessary.
The partial birth abortion, the partial birth abortion deal doesn't, the change that was acceptable to Dashel didn't say to protect the life of the mother against grievous injury.
It said grievous physical injury, bodily injury.
As far as cats go and the rendering, I like birds a lot, and I think they're almost as smart as cats.
So I've got a little problem sometimes with cats when they're...
No, when they're so profligate, they proliferate so much that they eat so many birds.
A bird actually came up to me in the country once because it hit the cat that I had saved from this parking lot.
This first cat I've ever saw cry.
I took it down to the vet and had its eye fixed because it got in a fight, but I had to shoot that cat, and I'll never shoot another cat.
I'll have it put to sleep.
But this cat ate so many birds that birds actually came up and sat in front of me, two feet from me, and glared at me.
I know that, but at least it's interspecies, for God's sakes.
Thank you, what we're talking about here is cannibalism, the very same problem that has birthed this horrid little disease known as mad cow disease that has jumped species and now is infecting human brains and killing people so if i've got to read this facts again this one that talks about our basic instinctual understanding of what is wrong i will i know that
cats, birds, maybe cats if they're left in a house with a dead person eat a person.
Lots of species eat other species.
Lots of horrible things occur.
I know that, but what I'm talking about here is a massive, probably worldwide campaign that is eventually going to produce something terrible for us.
All right, forget the poor cats, forget the poor dogs.
If you wish to think of it in no other terms, think of it as protection for you, because eventually if we keep doing what we damn well know is wrong, it's going to come back and kick us in the butt if it already has not begun to do so.
And again, I particularly would urge you to get the two-hour show with Ann Martin, the one we just did.
Get a copy of it because you're probably not going to hear this anywhere else.
I've been listening to you for a few years and finally really touched my buttons on this one.
I want to congratulate you, first of all, for your many stations that you're picking up and all your exposure on TV and whatnot.
Thank you.
And I want to thank Regina, I guess it was, for that great fact that really hit home with me.
I think when I first heard about BSE, it was the first time I, you know, reports about that was when I realized that ruminant seed was given to the livestock that everyone depends on so much.
I mean, this is really one of those things that I think we just understand, or at least anybody with, their basic instincts, still somewhat intact, understands is wrong.
unidentified
Yes, indeed.
And I think the media, like you said, is really an important force as these things go.
And people's viewpoints are just really shaped by them more than they, I think, would want to admit to.
Yeah, but it wasn't until the KSFO interview that they actually brought up the pet food thing, and I was...
i was floored by it and sure enough actually when i was doing some research on uh bovine growth hormone uh came across a website of ben and jerry's ice cream which led me to uh.
uh...
that one i think you mentioned about the pet food also verified that way well it's an amazing story uh...
and that you may have you know just about anything's on the net and i guess now the word is beginning to get out a little bit but i've never heard uh...
on a national uh...
unidentified
show of any sort any discussion of this before and or had i tell it gets run off of people should have a look into that legislation regarding uh...
labeling of recombinant bovine green growth hormone and kind of the politics around that it's pretty mind-blowing uh 10 percent increase in dairy output but then they've got to put them on drugs to keep them from getting infected udders and stuff and also on the birders the birds getting eaten by cats that's actually a big issue amongst bird fanatics I guess they're kind of crying out that people should restrain their cats.
I don't know.
I don't know how much I agree with that.
I like cats.
I think they're good for rodent control.
If you don't feed them a bunch of cats all day, they'll actually eat your, you know, they'll actually do a job in the yard or whatever.
Again, I really hope, you know, I understand that when you make a statement about abortion, either pro-con, or whatever, that you annoy about half the people out there because the American people are split down the middle.
And all I'm saying is that reasonable people should be able to come to a reasonable conclusion with regard to what can or should and should not be done with regard to abortion.
I think people who think that it should be free and easy and on-demand are out of their minds.
It's nothing less than the taking of life.
But I do not believe that there are circumstances, rare though they might be, where the life of the mother would be in jeopardy.
And I'm just simply telling you that in my case, if that was the case, there wouldn't be any contest.
Do you understand?
There wouldn't be any contest.
You're talking about one life versus the other.
Easy choice for me.
And I think that if, you know, if the medical community can't agree on this, which they can't, then you and I are not going to agree on this.
Are we?
And then they say, I heard on the radio that you're going to change your starting time from 11 p.m. to 10 p.m. beginning on the 16th of June.
Can you confirm or deny?
Sure.
I confirmed Duane in Klamath Falls for you.
That is true.
I will begin the show at 10 o'clock, beginning June 16th, going into the 17th.
We'll begin an hour earlier.
And end an hour earlier, and then go into repeat beginning at 3 a.m. Pacific time.
I think that the doctor's duty is to inform you of the danger as you just presented it to me and let you make the decision or let the woman make the decision or preferably both partners make the decision.
And I can't tell you this second what I would do under those circumstances.
I would talk to my wife and I would ask her how she wanted to proceed.
I think I'm telling you what I would do.
unidentified
I used to work in delivery room and in cases like what you're stating, you know, where the baby looks like it's going to take the mother's life, if they can ask the mother, they do.
If they can't ask the mother, the doctors that I worked with lots of times would just automatically take the baby's life.
In other words, with respect to this whole abortion thing, when women can make babies all by themselves, then I would think they would be the only ones who would need to be consulted.
Since they cannot yet do that, I would think consulting the father, particularly if the mother's under, should be a matter of law.
unidentified
Well, usually it's so quick, it happens so fast that they've got to make a decision.
No, and I understand that that can happen too, sir.
Thank you.
That there would be, I'm sure, see, that's what I'm trying to say, that there's no absolute in this whole argument.
There is no absolute.
And there may be situations in which a doctor who Has pledged above all to do no harm and to try to save lives has got to make a decision without the luxury of time to ask anybody about anything.
So there's no absolute here, and it's going to be very, very difficult to legislate under these conditions.
Still, I believe that reasonable people, given some time, can come up with at least guidelines.
Very hard to come up with a law, but guidelines that reasonable people can live with.
I agree with what she said, but I do think I want to make a distinction.
I think we do need to combine our instincts with our reasoning.
And they go together because our reasoning, the reason behind that instinct, repulsive, the instinctive repulsion against cannibalism is our fear that we ourselves might be eaten or a victim of cannibalism.
we know there's genetic deformity we know that there is There are cases, sir, where there are cases where a brother and a sister can go to bed and they can have a child that is perfectly healthy.
Unless we mask our instincts, or unless society and the state of society today masks our instincts, and I think more frequently these days that is occurring.
There you have it.
The quickening.
By the way, yes, the quickening is now once again available for a period of time unspecified or until I get sick of signing books.
You can get an autographed copy of the quickening.
It is still a first edition.
There will be a second.
It is the second printing of the first edition, and you can still get an autographed copy.
I suppose it might be viable, or it might be that there are some conditions in which even a C-section, which is an operation, suppose she had an unstable heart suddenly.
Suppose a lot of things.
I mean, that's what I'm trying to say.
There's no simple, straightforward, cut it down the middle answer for this because every situation is specific.
unidentified
Well, it seems to me that if someone got a baby that is eighth in the eighth month, then you could do a C-section normally.
And that would probably be less traumatic than any abortion.
Yeah, but suppose your wife had a sudden heart condition and that she couldn't withstand, there was a 40, 50, 60% chance that she could not withstand the trauma of a C-section.
Then what?
unidentified
Well, why would she be able to withstand the trauma of a partial birth abortion?
it's i think a matter of convenience i i don't know well of perhaps what people are really they don't know I appreciate the call, and I understand that's the argument that people make who are anti-abortion.
And I understand anti-abortion because I'm more anti-abortion than not.
But it's not an absolute.
It's not an absolute.
We don't live in an absolute world.
We live in a world full of shades of gray.
Between white and black, there are shades of gray, and that's the world for the most part we live in.
A lot of people are just confident that when they go to their vet and their animal is put down for some reason of mercy, that that animal is then cremated or taken care of in some way like that, and they go away, usually with tears in their eyes, not thinking about it.
I said, as far as I know on a national basis, no media has covered this rendering of our pet food, dogs and cats, taken from veterinarians, taken from animal shelters, to rendering plants where they're turned into pet food for dogs and cats.
Oh, mad cow disease, sir, has been all over the media.
unidentified
Right.
I don't know if you've covered this, though.
They stated, this was near the beginning of April, that neither heat nor radiation nor cold would destroy mad cow disease or mad sheep disease is in this country.
And also someone mentioned recombinant bovine growth hormone, BGH, RBGH, and all that.
And I have a text file I remember reading and I was able to pull up where the U.S. DA actually tried to encourage the farmers, the dairy farmers in Wisconsin, to take their RBGH or BGH or BST or, you know, those are the names for it, and promising a 40% increase in growth.
However, they soon found, as previous callers said, that they were suffering from more aggressive forms of cancer to their others, for example.
Look, again, it comes down to and was best said by this lady who suggested that we simply follow our instincts, that instinctually we know what's right and wrong,
as long as we have knowledge about what's going on, that we instinctually know what's right and wrong, and when we begin to compromise those instincts or try to intellectualize them away in favor of dollars, billions in this case, we eventually shoot ourselves in the foot.
Wild Card line, you're on air.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, let me just throw, Bob and Pocatello, something quick up there.
If people will take one cup of cracked wheat and four cups of water, and we've raised three dogs over a period of 15 years on this, and boil that up at night, and they'll have plenty of dog food, and like you say, they'll be eating grass, but nevertheless, it's nourishing for them.
also uh...
uh...
on the cell air force uh...
gallant's being considered for court marshall i think the public you already had very convicted and i but i think is an officer i think she does have a right to resign her commission before she goes to courts marshall and uh...