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Feb. 26, 1997 - Art Bell

03:27:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Shepherd - Project STRAT UFOs. Mel's Hole Update

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01:37:40

john shepherd

51:01

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning as the case may be across whatever time zone you reside in.
		From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chain in the west, chains, actually eastward all the way to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet, the ever-growing internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Welcome to the program.
		Well, the first thing I have for you is a MELS whole update.
		Minutes before broadcast, I received what is a pack which is dubbed subject final whole report.
		Check this out, guys.
		First of all, I want to thank you, your listeners, and your callers.
		I particularly want to thank the skeptics because they are the ones that really helped me.
		I have decided to take the money and run.
		I have made a lease agreement with regard to my land.
		The lease is to provide me with a sum of money to be deposited into an account in Australia.
		The money in Australia would allow me to immigrate to Australia because I would normally be unable to immigrate there because of my age.
		Australia, unlike the U.S., has very strict rules regarding immigration.
		The balance of the mortgage on the land will be paid off by the leasing party.
		I will be paid a sum of money each month for the next 100 years.
		Should I predecess the term of the lease, the money is hard to read, is to go to my estate, oh, I see, if I die, in other words.
		If it is feasible based on the leasing party's use of the land, I am to have my remains upon my demise return to the U.S. and be disposed of in the whole.
		The last item is based on the future use of the whole.
		If any commercial use of the land is made by the leasing party, their agents, or any other entity, I am to receive 5% of the gross revenues generated by the land.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This would be in addition to the monthly lease amount.
		The lease can be renewed at the end of the term by request of the leasing party.
		I will be indemnified against any damage to the land or the environment based on actions of the leasing party.
		This is quite remarkable.
		I'm reading this as you're hearing it as I'm reading it.
		There will be no charges of drug manufacturing against me.
		I will not be charged with the importation and propagation of non-native plants.
		Any materials regarding my research will be returned to me.
		Any personal items remaining on the property will be returned to me so long as they do not compromise the security of the property.
		In return, I am not to release any photographs, written, or oral descriptions as to the location or any information that would compromise the security of the property.
		I do, this is in caps, I do not wish to talk to the press.
		In my opinion, there is no press other than Art Bell.
		If you want to be able to cutting edge, Art Bell is the guy sharpening the knife off.
unidentified		That's nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Though things were pretty scary at times, everything worked out well.
		I'm certain that if I never contacted you to begin with, I would not have been as fortunate as I am today.
		It is amazing what can happen over the span of just a few days, Friday.
		I'm trying to make it to the end of the month now.
		Now money will not be a problem, ever.
		Thank you and all, and let Mel's Hole enter into that murky territory of urban mythology or conspiracy theory.
		This is the end of the trail.
		Mel.
		P.S. Yes, they will tell me about the true nature of the hole.
		No, you will not hear it from me.
		Huh.
		That just came in prior to airtime.
		Now, I have had a gazillion requests from Old Strange Universe and a whole bunch of newspapers and people who wanted to contact Mel, and I, of course, did not pass along his number without permission and wouldn't do that.
		And so there you have it, about two minutes prior to airtime.
		That facts came in, and I'll read that one more time later in the morning so all of the audience is sure to get it.
		Well, the final saga question mark in Mel's Hole.
		I've got two other whole stories here that we'll get to later.
		Remarkable whole stories.
		Now, for tonight, first of all, for the past two weeks, this just in, Australia has been repeatedly visited by UFOs.
		Over, get this, folks.
		50 encounters have been reported since February 1, including two landings in the suburbs of Melbourne.
		The flap began Saturday, February 1, with an incident in Tasmania, the island off Australia's southern coast.
		A family there reporting finding traces of a weird bright yellow slime jelly in their yard.
		Ooh, that sounds familiar.
		At 9.45 p.m. in Broken Hill, New South Wales, a city 750 kilometers west of Sydney, people reported, quote, sighting two bright lights traveling northwest to southeast.
		At 9.51 p.m.
		Another man saw a glowing object fly from the southeast to the northwest and on and on and on the reports go and I've got a good dozen reports here from Australia.
		So in the land down under, things are really hopping and popping UFO-wise.
		On this side of the pond, there is a most remarkable thing for you to see.
		Photographs of the house of the man that I'm about to interview.
		John Shepard is his name.
		And he runs something called Project STRAT, S-P-R-A-T acronym, for special telemetry research and tracking.
		It began in the spring of 1972.
		Through a dedicated effort, the project became fully operational by 1973.
		Now, I'm not going to read this whole thing.
		It's up on the website.
		And what I recommend to you is that you get up there right away and take a look at the Project STRAT photographs and what John has done to his house.
		There are a good half dozen photographs, I think, up there.
		And the whole story.
		Otherwise, we're going to unwind the story here on the air in a moment.
		So coming up, a man who is trying to contact UFOs from Michigan and has been trying to for many years, John Shepard.
		All right.
		Now to Michigan.
		Let's find out what part of Michigan.
		John, welcome to the program.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		art thank you for having me on the air with you oh happy to have you where are you in Michigan John well I'm in the northern lower peninsula not far from Traverse City actually northeast of Traverse City by about 38 miles okay how old are you now right now I'm good that's a good question I think I'm 46.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		46, I thought.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Getting up there anyway.
unidentified		46, alright.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You began all this when you were how old?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm even thinking back to the beginning of when I first was in kindergarten and got kicked out of kindergarten.
		Why?
		Well, because oftentimes I would leave the classroom.
		I got bored in kindergarten and I would end up going down to the boiler room in the school building which was on the southeast side of Detroit where I lived.
		I would go down there and talk with the guys that were on the boilers.
		They would show me the sight glasses and let me peer inside of them and see them working.
		I got real interested in that sort of thing, mechanical things, electrical things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Machinery.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Machinery, exactly.
		That drove the teachers nuts.
		There would be a fire drill.
		They couldn't find me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you were down with the boilers.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right where the fire would probably break out first of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had similar beginnings, John.
		I was tearing my mom's appliances apart, that kind of thing.
		And very bored with the school as well so we share that.
		I have a feeling we share a lot here.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I sense this too.
		It's fascinating.
		We have a natural interest in electrical things.
		The energy and how it works and how it affects things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that resulted in my tearing them apart when I was very young.
		Cutting things up, disassembling them.
		I got in more trouble.
		Oh man, I got a list of trouble here.
unidentified		I did when I was young like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well anyway, look, around skipping ahead from kindergarten, I mean this business of beginning to try to attract UFOs, and a lot of people out there would say you ought to be really careful what you wish for or try to achieve.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		why did it begin how did it begin that's that's a good question I started out after all this past this kindergarten stage and on into the 60s we're talking early 60s mid 60s now I was fascinated by programs like The Outer Limits, Forbidden Planet, and The Day Beer Stood Still.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All favorites of mine.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very powerful, very influential kind of things.
		Things like TV I had never really seen before.
		They were kind of almost a whole new creative genre or release of ideas.
		And especially Outer Limits being a series, it was every week there was something different on there.
		And the one that I remember most clearly that started me off on this track a little bit, I think, was the Galaxy Beam, the first pilot episode.
		That was something.
		And with that, I was off.
		That had my imagination just going like crazy.
		And if you remember that episode, this guy that worked at a radio station was in the transmitter building and had his own little setup there.
		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember it yet, so go ahead.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he had his own radio set up at the transmitter where he could broadcast programs, not music per se, but he was broadcasting codes and information out into space trying to contact a distant star system.
		And in this segment, he established contact and he had like a very neat special effect.
		They had this glass box where it looked like they were superimposing and projecting a tsilloscope image at ellistogen figures, this kind of thing, on this glass.
		And this being would kind of fade in and appear in here in this glass chamber.
		And it was like, it almost reminds you of what would now be a hologram by today's standards, way back then.
		How did I miss that?
		How could I miss that?
		Oh, it's a wonderful segment.
		It is brilliant.
		If you ever get a chance, you'll want to check it out.
		It's just, it fired my imagination so much.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have been, what, a teen at that point, or how old?
unidentified		Oh, boy.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Since I was born in 1951, let me think.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Probably 12, between 12 and 16, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very impressionable age.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very.
		And of course, there was our first flight saucers.
		There was all this other stuff about, you know, alien visitors of one form or another.
		And that really was fun.
		I mean, I had my imagination going.
		But what really, I think what really gelled it, okay, were the Dexter Ann Arbor sightings in the mid-60s.
		That was the final straw.
		That really got interesting for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those were particularly interesting sightings, and I briefly looked before I went on the air because I have a tape of some air traffic people talking about them, all kinds of confirmation, the guy sitting in front of the radar screen talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got all of that on tape.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Oh, fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, it is.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Because I heard a lot of this through WJR radio when I was living in the southeast side there in Detroit during this time, and I was glued to that radio.
		It was mysterious.
		I was hearing these incredible stories about this object that sat down in a farmer's field that had a large oval shape and had a quilted surface to it.
		And the farmer that owned the field and his son went out there to look at it.
		Didn't get very close to where the point where the sun said something like, look at that awful thing.
		And it started to glow and it lifted off the ground and took off.
		And it really just had me tranced.
		I have no other words for it.
		And something unusual happened shortly thereafter.
		Because I was so fascinated with these sightings.
		I spent nights outside watching with a, I had a TASCO, 10-power, handheld spotting scope, nothing fancy.
		I would sit out there evenings and watch the skies and watch the skies.
		See lots of planes go over, you know, the regular kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And one night I experienced something that to this day still remains pretty much unexplained in my mind.
		And I even ended up with a witness to it, which is even stranger.
		It was about 9 p.m.
		I'm thinking it's approximately 4 to 10 days after these first batch of sightings.
		And, you know, I was out there for night after night, nothing.
		And then this one night, I watched what looked like a star moving across the sky relatively slowly.
		It had no flashing lights on it or anything like that, but it was about the first magnitude in brightness.
		It was quite bright.
		It almost looked like Venus is, Venus, how bright Venus is, quite clearly visible and moving.
		And it was moving from the west, basically, to the east, from where I remember living in the sunset and all that.
		And I watched this thing.
		I put my back up to the house and lined it up between power lines that were running overhead to make sure I wasn't moving and make sure it would stay here with us.
		And I watched that thing, and sure enough, it was moving.
		It reached, it moved to a point of about a 45-degree angle to my viewing point.
		And at that point, I could just see what looked like a speck of light drop out of it.
		There was no doors opened or anything like that, but I saw a speck of light, that's the best description I can give, just appear from it and just descend very slowly down towards the city skyline.
		The object continued on overhead until I couldn't see it anymore.
		The other object that descended got to the point where you couldn't see it because of the light from the city.
		It got down into the lit area and you couldn't see it anymore.
		Now that was kind of strange.
		I thought, boy, that's weird.
		Why would an airplane drop something out of it like that?
		You know, I was thinking these kind of things.
		I thought, boy, that's really fascinating.
unidentified		Sure.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's what makes it even stranger for me, and again, I'll tell you some more, was I knew this lady who babysitted for a neighbor right next to me.
		And I used to talk with her about just all kinds of stuff, just anything, you know, stuff that kids talk about, or younger people.
		And she worked at a Hamburg sedan just about a block from the house.
		And I went up there the next morning and I went in and I said, I saw the strangest thing last night.
		And I started to describe it to her.
		And she looked at me really just straight in the face and she said, she almost turned white.
unidentified		She says, I don't believe it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		She says, I was in my apartment.
		I'm about two stories up.
		I'm making a sandwich.
		It's about 9.15 at this time.
		And I am making a sandwich.
		And I look out the window and I see what looks like a baseball-sized ball of light, like a plasma or a ball of light descending very gradually, slowly down towards the ground.
		I look out the window, it gets near the ground and fades away, just dissipates.
		And at that point, I was just floored.
		I didn't know what to make of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had a witness.
unidentified		Yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		At that time, I had a witness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, John, what happens is these things change you forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had one sighting, one, and it occurred for me late in my life.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it I'll never be the same.
		And I think it is to some degree driving me toward an investigation of this sort of thing.
		You're driven.
		Once you've seen something, what I saw, John, wasn't indistinct.
		It wasn't a light.
		It was a triangle.
		It came directly above me.
		My wife was with me.
		We both saw it.
		There was no question about it.
		Next thing to a close encounter of the third kind, totally inexplicable.
		And it changed me.
		And I, although it didn't change me apparently as much, well, maybe it did in its own way.
		But what happened to you really changed you, didn't it?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it did.
		It got me started down this path of exploring and trying in my best, you know, in my own best efforts with what limited funds I had to go out and try to open some doors to these questions, to get some answers, to look in deeper.
		And that drive a very strong compulsion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold that thought.
		We'll be right back to you and we'll find out what that compulsion led to.
		And if you want to see what that compulsion led to, then believe me, it's something to see.
		It's on my website now.
		If you've got a computer, www.artbell.com, go look at the Strat photographs.
		If you don't have a computer, it'll be inside an upcoming newsletter.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Be right back.
unidentified		Be right back.
		This is TRN and CBC, Talk Radio Network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Thank you.
		Call our bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and my guest is John Shepard.
		He is an amazing individual.
		And if you want to see what he's done, go to my website now and take a look at the Project Strat photographs and what John has done to his home.
		It's like, it really is like the Twilight Zone or any of the other movies we were talking about.
		It's unbelievable.
		And we'll begin describing it for you shortly.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Michigan and John Shepard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, you've been on television with all of this, haven't you?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, on quite a few different programs over the years.
		And interviewed by not only local TV, but national TV, PM Magazine, Look at Us with Richard Crennaug, which really originally was filmed for real people, but they moved it over to a new series that they started called Look at Us, George Flatter Productions.
		And now there's many more things in the works.
		Seems like most recently, Turner Broadcasting will be carrying a segment featuring a lot of my work called Searching for UFOs.
		And they're talking a tentative date of June 29th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a lot of friends at Strange Universe and Hard Copy.
		And I would think they would both be very, very interested.
		They're such visual mediums.
		And you have so much to offer visually that I would think they'd be very interested in taking a look at what you've done there, John.
		And that's where we're going to get to.
		Again, the word compulsion or obsession comes to mind.
		And so you had a sighting very much like the one I had.
		And then begins the compulsion.
		Mine, perhaps expressed here on the radio.
		Yours, though, started to take a different direction.
		Somehow in your mind, you decided, I guess, that you were going to try and do what?
		Contact UFOs or try and actually bring one to you or what were you trying to do?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's basically it.
		I was trying to contact them and a UFO or object, intelligence, whatever you want to call it, and bring it in, hone it in, get it close enough to where instruments could pick up electromagnetic fields, radiation, and or be able to photograph it, visually observe it, and so forth.
		I didn't go with the idea that I'd make contact in the sense of a communication.
		I went with the idea of can I attract their attention?
		Can I lure them in?
		Can I get them close enough where they can be photographed, observed, or check them out more closely in a little better detail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, aside from this incredible amount of equipment that you have amassed to do this job, I guess I'm kind of curious.
		Well, you did attract them once, didn't you?
		You actually had some come down close by while you were transmitting.
		What I wanted to ask, though, John, is, my God, we've got, you know, I'm on 328 radio stations or something right now, and there's RF going out all over from the planet, FM, AM, television, CB Hams, you name it, the spectrum is just buzzing with RF.
		Why do you think John Shepard's RF would particularly be heard or recognized by a UFO instead of all this other spurious stuff?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very good question, and even I've thought about that.
		I myself have wondered that same thing.
		Is it just sheer coincidence, or was there something maybe that's just a little different about it, like the frequency, which that was one of the reasons I chose the lower bands besides SCC regulations, et cetera, was the interesting and curious thing that had been reported for many years related to UFO sightings was that they were able to home in on the power lines day or night and locate the power lines and attach themselves to it or
art bell ▲ ● ▼		draw energy from the they were attracted to the 60 hertz power lines.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that is a strong point in why I chose this general frequency range.
		But I thought if I expanded on it a little bit and varied it enough, I started out by broadcasting tone burst pulses or tones, just a multitude of tones 24 hours a day, over and over again.
		Then I got into broadcasting nature sounds like songs of the humpback whale, things like this.
		And it wasn't more than a year after that that I decided to go with music.
		Music was a powerful thing in my life.
		So I thought, well, music, of course.
		You know, it's pretty universal even here.
		It crosses borders and people still can, you know, make head or tails of it.
		They can make something from it or enjoy it or get something out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, for the technical, you are broadcasting between what frequencies are you on?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's what it is.
		It's basically the audio frequency.
		From 40 hertz to 25 kilohertz is really very maximum top end I can squeeze out of this equipment.
		And then the efficiency drops off so dramatically that might as well forget it.
		So really it's very long wave.
		It's very low in frequency and by most, by standard radio theory requires an antenna hundreds of miles long, you know, at those lower frequencies.
		Exactly.
		That is standard radio theory.
		And I don't dismiss it in any way.
		But what I did attempt to do here was try to make up or compensate somewhat for that fact by increasing the potential emitted electrical field by increasing the voltage very, very high and using what I had for space and antenna to try to send the signal out.
		By increasing the potential of the dipole, the signal is fed to that to 60 or 100,000 volts, you get an impedance match, a better match, kind of like Nicholas Hespel was doing, where he increased the voltage so much that it coupled with the air.
		It becomes a better impedance match that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there is a photograph on the website with you standing there and a large antenna in the background that apparently is perched on a tower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And ever since I've seen that, I've been, what is that?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's the main transmitter tower.
		That is the one that I broadcast the Cultural and Freedom Music program from.
		That's the, it has two, it's been modified somewhat since then.
		It has two large 10-foot long dipoles.
		And there's a reflector that helps increase the bounce or the reflection of the signal back up into space.
		I've noticed there's a tremendous ground wave reflection, like it bounces.
		There's a point where you can detect it and it reverses its phase when you're measuring the signal's intensity.
		So there's also a ground wave that sets up with the ground.
		It's about 18 feet above the ground and the signal from that antenna element there is reflected like on the on the antenna itself, on the reflector and on the ground and it goes back up.
		One time, I've never tried it in a plane.
		That's the one thing I've thought about.
		I wish I had the use of the space shuttle for this would be awesome.
		But anyway, we tried, we did try a cherry picker bucket and went way up about 80 feet above this thing and the signal was just phenomenally loud, very intense, much more intense than even the side field of peripheral radiation given off by the antenna and ground level.
		It was, and Lee, unless you were very, very close to it.
		It was interesting.
		there was a stronger irradiated signal in the vertical plane.
		So theory, to some degree...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you hear it on?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what you can hear it on is basically in the simplest terms, a friend and I designed and built a wideband amplifier detector.
		It's a non-tuned receiver.
		This is one of the devices we use.
		I have a tuned one as well, but it uses 741 OPEX, a dual pair of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And it has, the gain is cranked up way high on this.
		We're using an open-end antenna basically on this.
		You can put different types of antennas on it, plug them in, different types of pickups, magnetic and open circuit.
		And with a foot-long antenna on that thing, it just blows your ears out.
		You know, if you're standing 30 feet from that tower, it just blows you away because you have to turn it way down the game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there not some, you're running, how much now power, 1,000 watts?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 1,000 watts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, that's a lot of power at that frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, isn't there some biological danger of that kind of power at that frequency?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a question I've had asked so many times.
		That's an interesting question, and I'm fascinated by it.
		Now, I've watched in the mirror, every morning I get up, I check to see if there's a third eye developing in the center of my head or any other strange mutation.
		But actually, I haven't had, I don't feel any ill effects yet.
		I haven't, I've been around this stuff for 20 years or better, you know, around these electromagnetic fields, and especially in the accelerator lab here, where we've got these two-story high machines that put out the same, nearly the same potential as antenna, and they're right inside of a room in the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that brings another incredible photograph to mind that I've got to ask you about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You apparently knocked out a floor of your house in order to build this great vertical apparatus.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		What in the hell is that?
		Okay, let me give you a little background on that.
		That is basically what we did.
		We built a room onto the house, a 38 by 16 extension or addition to the house that's all shielded.
		It's got shielding on the walls and a grid under the floor and so on and so forth.
		Are you married then?
		No, at present I've got a relationship, but I'm pretty much just a single guy doing what I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well when all this began, you were living with your parents, weren't you?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Grandparents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grandparents.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Are you now alone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they still there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they passed on?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they passed on.
		My grandfather passed on in January of 1980, and my grandmother, about six to eight years later, if I recall correctly, she passed on.
		So really what happened there was my grandmother and I, after my grandfather passed on, decided to put our savings, our life savings, hers and mine, into this addition to the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine it would take that.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		At minimum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At minimum.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It did.
		It took everything we pretty much had.
		And I had a little bit of money left over to invest and trade stocks with and things like that to keep it going.
		And that's about all it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there must have been a moment when you had a conversation with the grandma and you sat down and you said, Grandma, I need to build an addition onto the house to build all this equipment so we can contact UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what did your grandma say?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Actually, my grandma was very in favor of it.
		She even suggested it in a way.
		She had a very strong interest in these types of things.
		And she had almost a natural psychic ability.
		She surprised me a couple of times, really, really seriously surprised me.
		And I didn't know she had this ability.
		This wasn't something like she would talk about or anything very often.
		But she saw one time, it's almost, almost like, or similar to remote viewing, she had an experience with a lady that, okay, this gal was the wife of the manager and owner of the Antrim County Airport at the time.
		And she came over to the house and she was troubled by something.
		She asked my grandma about it, and I can remember my grandma detailing an incredible detail about an aileron that wasn't, the cable or something controlling the aileron in this plane that was on the ground wasn't bright for some reason.
		And she detailed this for her because she was worried about it, okay?
		She went back to the airport, this lady, and she checked this plane, and sure enough, there was a problem with that aileron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your grandma was kind of psychic.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, anyway, so you sat down and you proposed grandma your life savings, my life savings.
		We're going to convert them into this grand project to try and attract UFOs.
		And she went for it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		She went for it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		She had seen one before this, long before this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that'll do it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so again, referring to this photograph, what in God's name is all of this?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're looking, you're talking about the one where I'm standing down in the lower level of the accelerator lab, I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An accelerator lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's gigantic, whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It towers way, way above you.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		18 feet, 6 inches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what is it?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It's easily described as a giant tank circuit.
		The easiest way I can describe it, and radio jargon, it would be like the final output stage or the stage just before you couple to the antenna.
		It's an array of capacitors, resonator plates that work together with capacitors to create You tend to get an efficiency range or a hump.
		That's the best way to describe it.
		You don't get such a thing as a perfectly tuned real tight spike.
		If you do, then you've limited your frequency to that range and that's it.
		Here you kind of got to, you either got to approach it on the shotgun effect or you've got to go with a spread spectrum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you want something broader.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And still have some degree of efficiency.
		But because of the frequencies, of course, physically, everything is bigger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gigantic, actually.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down in the Hertz range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gigantic.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Huge.
		And the voltages operating here, as high as 150 kilovolts.
		Physical separation of the equipment is absolutely essential.
		You find yourself blowing things up real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you blown many up?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		There was a really interesting experience a few years back.
		I would say about four years ago during the testing phase of this new capacitor bank that's in this picture.
		There are glass plates in there that I got scrunched from a glass plate company and from some old TV sets.
		I polished them up real good and they're about a quarter inch thick.
		They're 24 by 20.
		And I put a screen on each side of these glass plates, okay?
		Ordinary screen, cut it to size to tune it to give it a tuning range.
		And these plates were hooked up as capacitors in the circuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, everything was working fine.
		I was testing it.
		Now, imagine that there's two inches of space between the edge of the screen and the edge of the glass on each side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And what happened was we were running it.
		I pushed the voltage up to about 85,000 volts potential between those two plates.
		And all of a sudden, on one of these tests, a blue plasma arc started.
		Very bright, very intense, very loud.
		And it was a matter of maybe three seconds, and that glass exploded.
		It went all over the lab.
		There were fragments everywhere.
		Very loud, very percussive kind of explosion.
		Heaven's sakes, if my neighbors would have heard that, they probably would have thrown me out of the neighborhood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a separate topic, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you survive with your neighbors?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, with all the incredible land restrictions and things that are going on these days, it's a miracle that we've got some retired folks that are far enough away that either their hearing isn't real good or they don't really worry about it a whole lot.
		I've been lucky.
		I've been very lucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they must have seen the publicity of what you've got there.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they have.
		And matter of fact, here's an interesting story related to that, a brief one, where when I first started doing this stuff, before the room was added on, and there was equipment creeping out into the dining room of the house, in the living room, one of the neighbors stopped over, and he was a farmer kind of guy, and he looks around, you know, and he looks at my grandma and grandpa and the equipment.
		And is he into some kind of radio or something?
		He looks at this, he can't quite figure it out.
		There's racks, floor to ceiling, of course, full of instruments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there is a photograph on the website of your grandma and grandpa with you there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks like you've already absorbed Half the living room to me.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		And they're kind of, they got one side, the TV's got the other side, and the equipment's got the rest.
		It's pretty much that's what it is.
		And there was even lab equipment and microscopes and other things in the entryway between the living room and dining room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, surely people would come over and ask your grandparents whether you had lost your mind or whether they had lost theirs or worried about an explosion or, I mean, when you look at all of this equipment, John, to be honest with you, because of, I understand, the frequencies you're working with, everything is so gigantic that, I mean, to the average person, John, it looks like a madman's laboratory.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		That's probably, in an abstract sense, I suppose that's where the aspect of art, or where this idea of being an art form came in, kind of.
		And totally coincidental to the fact that I've always had a creative spirit to build things and work with my hands.
		Well, when people see this stuff, now here's a good example.
		Not too long ago, just after this edition was put on, there was a couple that had a car problem out front.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to hold on to this until we get back from the top of the hour, all right?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, you've got to see this.
		Trust me when I tell you.
		Go to my webpage and look at what's there, Project Strap, at www.artbell.com.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're looking to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Listeners west of the Rockies can call ART toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
		If you're east of the Rockies, the toll-free number is 800-825-5033.
		If you've never called ART before, you may use the first-time caller line at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is Area Code 702-727-1295.
		When you get through, let it ring, and ART will answer your call in order on the air.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, my guest is John Shepherd.
		John has built what it is very difficult to describe.
		He has converted his house in Michigan into this gigantic transmitter, this ultra-low-frequency transmitter designed to attract UFOs.
		It really is hard in words to describe what he has done.
		The photographs are on my website.
		What I would like to do when I begin to take calls here shortly is take calls from those of you who have seen the photographs.
		So if everybody else would hold off a little bit, and if you have been fortunate enough to have been to my website and seen the photographs, you will understand the magnitude of what John has done.
		Or maybe you've seen him on TV or have seen newspaper articles showing these photographs.
		He convinced his grandmother to invest her entire life savings along with his entire life savings, and they converted their entire house into a transmitter.
unidentified		It's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're discussing various aspects of it right now, but I would like to restrict the lines to those who have seen the photographs for now.
		So if you would be so kind, everybody just sort of hold off on the phones unless you have actually seen the photographs.
		And we'll begin to get calls here shortly.
		All right, John Shepard is in Michigan.
		He's trying to attract UFOs.
		He noticed that UFOs appear to be attracted to power lines, and that has long, of course, been the case.
		And so he decided to transmit incredibly high-powered signals down in the Hertz range, around 40 Hertz, in that area.
		And in doing so, he has converted his home there, which was, I guess, his grandparents' home, into one mugungus transmitter, the size of which you can only understand if you have seen the photographs on my website.
		And I heartily recommend it.
		And I am restricting calls in the beginning to those who have seen this, because you've got to see it to believe it.
		Actually.
		So if you want to call in, please try and view the photographs first.
		If not, just sit back and listen.
		And you'll get a sense by, I'm sure, what the audience says of the magnitude of what we're talking about.
		John, how much money have you spent on all this?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's a good question.
		You know, over all the years we've done this, it would be easy, pretty realistic, I think, to say between $30,000 and $60,000.
		A lot of it was hand-made, hand-built, pieces made.
		And my grandfather was a tool and eye maker, so he taught me machine shop.
		So I was able to machine and make from raw material a lot of the components and parts, taking many years, of course, but saving many thousands of dollars in costs that would normally be prohibited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so here's this giant room with what is a final tank circuit, and that is the circuit just before you go to the antenna, folks, that literally takes not one floor, but it goes up.
		I'm trying to think of what to compare it to visually.
		It's like a scene out of Forbidden Planet.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually.
		Now, you remember when they were in the power grid portion in Forbidden Planet?
		That's what it reminds me of.
		And then below this, I've got a photograph of you in what appears to be the high voltage section.
		I'm not sure.
		It's a black and white photograph, John.
		And it says danger high voltage there.
		What am I looking at?
		This looks absolutely incredible.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're looking at the upper story, upper level of the lab where the final output point is to the antenna, to the ceiling of the room.
		There's a 75 kilovolt cable that goes to the tower from the ceiling there.
		And that's the top side of the transmitter, the output side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to me, this puts a lot of these power stations that you see that power cities to shame.
		And you have everything connected to everything here.
		And I wish that I fully understood exactly what I'm looking at.
		Is this the actual coupling to the antenna?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, matter of fact, if you look directly above my head in that photograph, you can see a black column going horizontally, diagonally, horizontally across to a spherical reflector sphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And that's the coupling, and that goes through a heavy-duty high-voltage insulated bushing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Through the ceiling to high-voltage transmission cable, which then finally goes out the eaves of the house and up to one power out front here.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And we use power cable that they use for underground high-voltage cable, 75-kilowatt rating cable to run this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm surprised you've never set your house on fire.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, insurance companies would love it.
		Actually, they'd hate it.
		No, that hasn't been a problem.
		I've been very careful about how I wire everything and how I insulate it and isolate it from flammable surfaces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can clearly see the craftsmanship here is superb.
		I mean, it's absolutely superb.
		I really would love to see all this in person.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I wish you could, Art.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I would love to have you come out and spend some time here in beautiful Michigan and look at this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You develop how much voltage to power this now again?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, between the two potential sides of the circuit, since it's basically single-fave, but you've got 180 degrees difference between your signal, your output stages in the system.
		So it's high as 150 kilovolts.
		By that time, though, when you're running it to that high a voltage, you can hear and feel it in the air around you, and you can smell the ozone.
		That room, we've got big ventilator fans that's had to add to the room to reduce the ozone concentration.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's true.
		I'm sure that's true.
		And you're broadcasting from 40 to 1,000 hertz.
		Is that about right?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Actually, efficiently, between 40 hertz is a good, it's really good on the low end at 40 hertz.
		It tapers off as you go above about 800, 1,000 hertz, but we still push it to about 12 kilohertz.
		So we really push it at 12.
		Things get warm at 12.
unidentified		I can imagine they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was all of this operating when your grandma was alive?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		She got to see, yes, she got to see the first, she was here during the filming for Look at Us with Richard Krenna for that TV segment.
		And at that time, the station was just coming together and going on the air full power.
		So she did get to see this dream realized, and she was very happy.
		She truly enjoyed it.
		She felt that it was a worthwhile effort to try to discover what these things were and to look into them deeper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about John Shepard and the FCC?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does the Federal Communications Commission rule in the area in which you transmit?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, they didn't used to.
		If I recall correctly from what I have read, and this is kind of what I based it on.
		Now, maybe they changed the rules a bit.
		They haven't notified me of the fact, but maybe they will, 50 tonight.
		But at the time that I did this, I started this, there was like, I think it was up to 14.4 or 24.4 kilohertz that was pretty much unregulated, unlicensed, experimental frequencies.
		They were pretty open down there because nobody used them for anything.
		They weren't commercially viable, basically.
		They weren't used for, except now that they've had Project ELF and some of these other projects for submarine communication.
		There had been no real use for that frequency as far as I was aware.
		And obviously there's no interference or by now they would have said something.
		We haven't caused any problems with local reception or anything like that by being this low in frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not interfering with anybody's submarine communications.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Not that I know of.
		I've been watching the lakefront out here to see if a submarine ever pulls up out front here.
		Just to say, Tuna, I know we've made a boo-boo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have collaborators and friends who help you with this, or are you all on your own?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to take that back a few years so I can kind of bring that into a better focus.
		Okay.
		In the early 60s, when I first got into all this, electrical stuff, in the early to mid-60s, my grandfather was interested in what I did.
		And I say he was a two-owned die maker, but he had a fascination with automotive coils and relays and basic things like that.
		He wasn't real electronically minded, but he had an extremely good Knowledge of mechanics.
		So he was able to build things that I kind of asked him to build.
		Like if I needed a rotating spark gap device, he could make it on the lathe machining.
		And he taught me, of course, the same thing.
		But I started off pretty much with building these things, experimenting with stuff I used to find in the alleys of Detroit.
		I used to roam the alleys looking for old radios, old TVs, anything I could find, because I didn't have any real money.
		An allowance was $2 a week back then.
		So you didn't go out and buy much, and there wasn't even really a radio chef.
		So anyway, I started out on that kind of a level with it, and it wasn't long before I was really able to put those components together.
		I got, the best way to describe it is I got a feel for the electrical properties of things and how electricity behaved.
		I didn't have it written down in formulas.
		I didn't have the math to do that.
		But I had a feel for it.
		And I could put these things together and get certain results.
		Sometimes there were some rather amusing moments where there would be an explosion and a pretty black hole in the carpet.
		And my grandpa number of times gave me a reprieve from such efforts.
		And then I would come back and try it again.
		And usually either with the results of a much larger explosion and a bigger hole or a breakthrough.
		And that's how it all kind of got going.
		And then moving forward a little now into the mid-70s, I still do to this day, have a very good friend by the name of Mike Johnston, who you probably may have had to one time.
		He is an artist, a creative person, very, very interesting person.
		He and I grew up together, okay?
		He and his dad has a cottage next door to this place where I live now with the lab.
		And it started out back in about, I think, 72 or 73, just shortly after this station went on the air.
		I used to go out with this spotting scope.
		I had the same 10-power spotting scope that I saw the object with.
		And I'd just go out and look at stuff and play around.
		I was just having fun.
		And one day they were over next door in the fall burning leaves.
		And I just sat down behind a pile of leaves here that were in our yard and I'd watch through the spotting scope.
		And I saw Mike.
		He was young then too, about my age, actually a little younger.
		And I would see him through the heat waves.
		And I was kind of just watching him and checking out the neighbors, you know, didn't really know them.
		And I got brave enough to the point where I actually walked over and said hello.
		And I told him what I was doing.
		And at that point, he just seemed to be fascinated.
		And we sort of, we struck up a great friendship, just a fantastic friendship.
		And ever since that time, we've shared a lot of inspiration, ideas, and things related to a lot of the same areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's helped you out.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		He's helped you.
		Yes, yes.
		In the sense of a very powerful, kind of very, a very level-headed and down-to-earth kind of person.
		He has his feet on the ground, maybe a little firmer than I do, because I tend to get more abstract and more out on concepts and ideas and maybe the art of it or whatever, the far-off concepts of it, where he has that too, but he has his feet maybe rooted a little firmer on terra firma.
		But his influence got me into music, basically, got my interests in creative music.
		I mean, things that are not so really commercial per se, but are truly artistic expressions that the individual artist expresses himself through, you know, in music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The communication with the saucer in that movie was with musical tones.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there is a mathematic precision, of course, to music.
		So it does make sense, I suppose, particularly in view of the fact that yoffos appear to be attracted to these very low frequencies as evidenced by 60 hertz, which is the frequency of transmission lines, electricity in this country, AC.
		So it makes sense, I guess, to me, that you're doing what you're doing.
		Have you ever, in your opinion, actually brought a UFO down?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		In my opinion, and I stress that it's circumstantial.
		I make no claims that I've actually done it, but I would say that the circumstantial indications are that there have been a number of times when, in 73 and even in 1972, when these things were attracted to the signals we were sending out.
		Something, it appeared that they were.
		I want to stress that.
		They appeared that they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any difference between what you were sending then and what you're sending now?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, quite a degree of difference.
		At that time, of course, the transmitter, the only transmitter on the air, was the 150-watt VMB, vertical marker beacon.
		And that was just basically I had an amplifier wired up that would feed back on itself and would pulse and modulate and make all kinds of racket.
		That was the best way to describe it.
		And then after I got that refined to the point where I could control that racket and actually get exact tones or pulses and given time sequences, then I had a tone pulse transmitter.
		And that signal was what I started with.
		And then we added, about a year later, I added this song of the Humpback Whale and then music from the group Soft Machine, which was a rather interesting kind of almost fusion electronic jazz group.
		And then things just kept going on from there, and I got more and more involved in creating even my own music and signals to send out.
		And Mike, by nature, was artistically inclined.
		He had a real strong interest in these areas, music and so forth.
		And we often played together and created our own music and even in live settings, recorded it, then brought it back and aired it.
		So it was kind of like a real grassroots create your own radio program radio station thing.
		Yep.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a couple of people who would like to say hello to you.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on there with John Shepard.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Frank in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Frank.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
		My name is myself.
		I'm also an amateur radio operator here.
		I don't know.
unidentified		Is John an AM operator?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I had considered becoming one.
		I came real close.
		I wish now I may still do it.
		I am considering a gift.
		I would love to become a radio operator, fully licensed, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen the photographs, Carla?
unidentified		Okay, yes, I have them on my web.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I see them all in tennis.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And his room where he has a lot of electronic equipment.
unidentified		I see his looks like his grandfather and his grandmother there.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And also, I guess that, what is that, 18 or 12 feet tall with all that equipment and things in there?
		Yes, that's correct.
		About 18 feet, 6 inches tall.
		That room has modular flooring and steel frame floors that you can adjust or remove entire sections of so you can accommodate such large equipment.
unidentified		And then I see the high voltage part of it does part there too.
unidentified		It goes up to the antenna of it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see all that type of thing.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		You know, I was wondering, too, Art, you know, this HAARP project is supposed to come up in a few days.
unidentified		Yep.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And as far as the frequencies go to monitoring those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And I was wondering if John might be interested in trying to pick up some of that from the HARP project up from Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be a receiving job, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But John, I presume you have heard of HAARP.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, it's going to be dealing with some very low frequencies, in fact, even lower than the ones you're fooling with right now, that are thought to be very close to our brain's operating frequency.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very, very, very concerned and very interested at the same time in this.
		And I will be doing some serious efforts toward monitoring this activity.
		Now, you mentioned not only on your webpage, but on your program the other night about the frequencies and that there'll actually be an issuing card.
		That's rather fascinating.
		But most of those frequencies that were given were in the, I think it was 6.99 or 9 mega cycles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 3.44 mega cycles or something, megahertz, and 6.99, something like that.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But eventually they're going to be fooling with very, very low frequencies.
		And yours are pretty low.
		And that's why I asked you about the biological effects.
		You're running awfully high power on very low frequencies.
		And I really would be concerned for some sort of biohazard connected with this.
		But you tell me you have no third eye yet.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It is interesting, though, that I have felt some unusual, in one case, I will say there is one case where We're at the bottom of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll come back and discuss that in a moment.
		One case where something happened.
		We'll find out.
unidentified		We'll find out.
unidentified		This is TRN and CBC, Talk Radio Network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Survey says people love it, and I think you will too.
		We don't do your cookie-cutter-style talk radio.
		We don't sit here and bash for hours on end.
		Instead, we explore intricacy, intriguing, strange, even bizarre topics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what, it's a lot of fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's different, and it's right here in the middle of the night.
unidentified		Art Bell interviews Dr. John Holland, president of Care Incorporated at Psychokinesis this weekend on Greenland.
		This is Art Bell.
		If human beings only use a small portion of our brains, what makes us think we know it all?
		Just because we can't prove it yet does not mean it may not be so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greenland.
unidentified		Greenland.
		Love is good.
		We'll be right back.
		Call our bell toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the story we're doing is that of a very, very, very interesting man named John Shepard.
		And I'm not sure we should be doing it on radio.
		This probably is a story for television because of the visual aspect of it.
		I know that not all of you by a long shot have computers and can see the photographs that we've got up on the website.
		I've intentionally had them there for several days so that you could see the magnitude of what it is we're talking about.
		As a matter of fact, a factor here says it quite well.
		Art, the photographs on your webpage are a must.
		The visual provided brings his efforts alive.
		This is more than obsession.
		It's dedication, genius at work.
		That's Daryl and Rancho Mirage.
		And I absolutely agree with that.
		John has converted his entire house to a ultra-low frequency transmitter in the 40 hertz range, running about 1,000 watts, which is a lot of power at that frequency.
		Extremely high voltage.
		And it looks like the wildest lab that you've ever seen in your whole life.
		John looks a Little eccentric perhaps, but sounds and otherwise looks quite normal, and he's trying to attract UFOs with these ultra-low frequencies.
		And again, I would ask that only those of you that have seen the photographs call so the audience can get a sense of what it is we're talking about.
		Because without this visual, it's really, it's hard to imagine, frankly.
		Incidentally, Christy Brinkley was just a guest, I guess, tonight on the Jay Leno show.
		And it seems Christy Brinkley just had a UFO encounter of some sort with which the FBI became involved.
		Yes, the FBI.
		All right, back now to John Shepard.
		John, yes, in Michigan.
		Again, a lot of people who want to talk to you, John.
		What would you say to the people of America about what you're doing?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, first of all, I'd express that I'm just an individual who had a curiosity about things that maybe reached beyond the normal realms.
		And I followed that curiosity up by actually dedicating and putting forth the effort, time, and money to try to better understand it, to get a better handle on it.
		And a strong, what can I say, I had an experience when I was younger that influenced me for the rest of my life, that set me on a course creatively, inspirationally, and technically, to try to get a better look at this fascinating subject.
		And ever since, I have not lost my enthusiasm for searching out that mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to do with this house when you pass on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, should it become a museum?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's a thought I've had.
		That has been one of the thoughts.
		A lot of things have been going on.
		Due to the economics of all this, just to put it in a quick nutshell, I've had to place the house and the project up for sale.
		And it may be a situation where it may be sold to someone.
		It's hard to say.
		Nothing's happened yet.
		It's just in the work.
		And that was one of the interesting highlights of trying to do this kind of thing is, you know, you think you can pretty much do just about anything with what you have, but you realize real quick, you realize how expensive it really is.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of curiosity, what would any buyer do with this?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine it would be a situation where either the person would have to have the kind of eccentric degree of interest in electronics or in the UFO phenomena, or it's say a movie company or somebody that would want this for some use like that for filming or for studio, for whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that I can understand.
		All right.
		First time call online.
		You're on here with John Shepard in Michigan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Jack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in a little town called Jacksboro, Tennessee.
		All right.
		And it's KC4 PWE.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am, all right.
unidentified		Yeah, I've tinkered around with.
unidentified		Right now I'm in the process of building one of Wayne Green's bioelectrifiers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so yeah.
unidentified		So anyway, I've got a question for John.
		Some information I run upon, it's been several months back.
		A fellow had built a thing he called a Steletron.
		His name was Dr. L.G. Lawrence, and he's the president of the E. coli Institute of San Bernardino, California, a research institute.
		Are you familiar with him, John?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		No, matter of fact.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Nor am I. This would be the first time.
unidentified		Okay, what this Steletron thing is that he built is it picks up the bio senses off a plant, like when you play music on a flower, or is telling how the flower reacts to it and so forth.
		This is what this steletron is.
		And he took all kinds of different readings off a plant.
		And in the article in the commentary that I've seen about this, he talked about being able to point this stellatron up into the sky and pick up all kinds of different types of signals.
		And this is the only person I've ever heard of that's using any kind of instruments of this type to get any kind of readings off of any.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he didn't say what did you think of the photographs of what John has done?
unidentified		Well, it was amazing some of the rays he built there, especially the one that was about 18 foot tall, that one addition, that additional room that he had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, it brings up an interesting question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, how do things grow around your house?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Do they grow normally?
		Yes, they do.
		I see, as far as plants or animals, as a matter of fact, there's a raccoon just outside the studio right now walking around.
		It doesn't seem to have any effect.
		There doesn't appear to be any real variation that I can determine, visually at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because the man is right.
		Plants, you know, the old thing about you sing to them and they grow better and all of that.
		I would imagine these kinds of frequencies would affect growing things.
		But that's just a guess.
		There's certainly a lot of research going on now indicating that 60 hertz or power lines may be even carcinogenic.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I've heard this, and I've been reading this same research with close eyes.
		I'm sure.
		I think since it stays centered on that frequency, too, may be a cumulative effect, where this sleeps, the frequency keeps changing with the signal modulating it.
		It doesn't stay fixed on a given frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		So you're not exposed to that same resonation or energy frequency bombarding your cells all the time.
		It's changing constantly.
		It's more like a natural background kind of signal would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on there with John Shepard in Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		This is Charlotte.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Charlotte.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		This is in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And talking to the gentleman in Michigan, I'm a contractor, electrician, plumber, and carpenter.
		And I can freely say that there may be all kinds of energy that will come off of lines that are not grounded.
		If they're probably grounded, then there are other things that can happen, which I've experienced myself.
		But I don't think that I can help him with his problem.
		I'm just a carpenter, electrician, a general contractor.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, then why don't you know a lot about electricity?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your call, then, if you have nothing to comment on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Shepard.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It's Martin calling from just south of L.A., Lower Akron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Martin.
unidentified		And I've got two questions about the UFO phenomenon for John.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		The first off, his life sort of reminds me a lot of my own, and I noticed he mentioned he was into what sounds like a prog rocket, progressive rocket, and alternative music.
unidentified		Can you tell me, elaborate on some of the stuff that influenced him in his music?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as a matter of fact, I can.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Starting out early, a lot of the music was things like Religion Soft Machine, Soft Machine, Steen Hammer, Tangerine Dream, the German Dreams Goal kind of groups, FOST.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		A lot of this sort of music.
		And jazz.
		Jazz has become very strong along with this in my life.
		And Mike, who I mentioned earlier on the program is influencing me a lot, has put out a couple of CDs with his group, Northwoods Improvisors.
		And their music is everything from Eastern, ethnic, and space to pure, powerful, moving jazz.
		I mean, it's hard to describe because, again, it's like describing this lab.
		You can't describe it, and pictures are the only near thing that helps you.
		Is his music available?
		Yes, it is.
		It's out on the ARC label, out of Canada.
unidentified		Well, two cool questions.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		One, could you comment on how you would chronicle or record the activity or events you're involved with?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And number two, probably you and Art are familiar with John Keel, the author?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he had an Operation Trojan horse that mentioned something about being able to pick up things strongly on the Wednesday evening phenomena.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And I'll hang up and listen to your comments.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, those are both good questions.
		I have heard about that, although I haven't read in depth all the details of that particular Wednesday signal phenomenon, but it's interesting.
		I do remember hearing about this or reading about it and brief mention of his.
		And more to follow, certainly.
		And as far as recording the signals, I've set up a system where I can log on tape a signal.
		When a signal is detected, now oftentimes you detect other phenomena too, like lightning, things like this.
		If a signal is that quick, you usually get a large pulse.
		The recorder starts and then stops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, John, do you pause your transmission to listen on the same group of frequencies that you are transmitting on?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		I have to.
		Matter of fact, that's why we're working with a four to six hour, maybe eight hour maximum transmission period for the big transmitter, the one that sends out the cultural program.
unidentified		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Because the signal is obviously so present that it would override the very receiving equipment at that frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you have any recordings of what you would consider to be some sort of intelligent response?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Not necessarily an intelligent response.
		All I've got over the years that I've done this is unusual electromagnetic interference or noise.
		Now when I say noise, I'm talking about during the eclipse, one of the recent eclipses, I picked up some kind of electromagnetic interference, possibly related to solar activity or atmospheric disturbances caused by that.
		That created a lot of unusual signal noise.
		But it was random.
		It wasn't patterned in any particular form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but I guess my question then would be, John, after spending all of these years and the better part of your adult life building and operating this incredible setup and not getting anything tangible back in terms of a signal or an absolute UFO visit other than perhaps the one you described, why do you continue?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's best described as when you're really, you're like an artist or you create, you have a creative inspiration based on an experience.
		You continue to want to create.
		You continue to want to build these enormous things and reach out and continue reaching.
		No, I just simply never gave up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe like a gold prospector who never strikes his big vein, but he's always out there looking for it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		That's precisely it.
		There's that one in a million or one in a thousand or one in ten million chance that maybe someday within your lifetime you're going to find that big vein, that mother load.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe west of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Shepard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		This is Abe from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've got a couple questions for John and one for you, Art.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		First of all, I have some interest in electromagnetic detection.
		I was wondering, does he have any ideas for wide-field deep space tracking for electromagnetic detection?
		And it says here that you'd picked up some electromagnetic disturbances.
		And I was wondering if he had any ideas on that.
		I know that, you know, like Bob Lazar, he talks about A and B gravity waves.
		And I was wondering, you know, there's any ways to detect that out there in the space.
		And to you, R, did you get that fact today from me about the pit?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
unidentified		Okay, I'll have and listen to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, on that question, yes.
		There's a couple of instruments that I use.
		The primary instrument being the one we built ourselves using the 741 dual op-amp circuit.
		And it's got a speaker in it, it's got a meter, it's got a readout, you can record from it, et cetera, and so on.
		And the 741 has a very wide operating frequency range, as long as you don't insert capacitors or inductors in the circuit.
		They have a tremendous gain.
		You can crank them way up.
		I use that in conjunction with different pickups.
		Everything from magnetic coils that are hand-wound.
		Some of them are, I've had them as big as 8 feet in diameter with many turns of telephone wire on them.
		You can set them up on the yard and then listen to see what I can pick up.
		And you hear all kinds of things.
		You hear AM stations.
		You hear a lot of Earth side stuff.
		But you also hear whistlers and things in the atmosphere caused by electrostatic disruption, like some lightning and things like that.
		And they're almost like an echo.
		They're really interesting.
		And you can, on clear nights, you can also hear clicking and popping.
		You can hear noise that just fades in and out.
		You can't really pinpoint where it's coming from.
		It could be anywhere, anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever, John, and I don't know how you're set up there, but have you ever heard an echo of your own transmitter immediately after you shut it down?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Not immediately.
		Matter of fact, there was one case where it was more than immediate.
		It was within microseconds.
		It was so quick, you would almost say it was a reflection off the ionosphere or something.
		It was so fast.
		Yes.
		Yeah, there's that sort of thing.
		I have picked that up, but say an echo at a greater distance, I haven't.
		I'm assuming in that, now this is only an assumption, this is proven, that either the atmosphere is absorbing it at that point or it's passing on out into space.
		It's doing one or the other, and that would explain maybe why I wasn't picking up an echo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so your house, the entire apparatus, the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel, is on the market.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
		Now, I'm not getting out of the business completely.
		I'm recapitalizing.
		I'm needing, because of the economics of this, I need to recapitalize what I'm doing.
		I need to start over and refocus this effort even more and work on some new designs and new concepts that are along similar lines but more refined.
		And in order to do that, I've got to do something pretty drastic to raise the money.
		Quite frankly, there's no way to do this.
		You can't borrow this money from a bank to do it, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that'd be a tough one to sit down and try to talk to a banker about this.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I can imagine that a movie company, some kind of company that wants an incredible background, would purchase all of this for exactly that reason.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yep, and or possibly lease the space and do a location contract or something of this sort.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's another option that may even save it from having to be sold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you were to sell it and have lots of capital to work with, what would you do with it?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would continue the work that I'm doing, but I'd also refine the equipment even more and experiment with some of what the man just mentioned a little earlier there about detecting gravity waves.
		And because there's been so much talk lately about stars colliding, supernovas, and all this other kind of very interesting and very influential topic, should it occur, within our lifetimes, it would be nice to be able to maybe detect the gravity waves from in advance, something like this.
		They travel hopefully quite a bit faster than the light or the other particles from that kind of explosion or energy relief.
		All right, scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're an amazing person, John.
		You really are an amazing person.
		And if I can be of any assistance to you in the future in any way, please let me know.
		I'd be glad to help you out technically or here on the air or however, whatever kind of help you can use, because I think you're a very, very special person.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Art, that's very kind of you.
		And I guess for now I would say feel free to pass on this information about me to Strange Universe, to Dark Skies, to these groups.
		I wouldn't mind maybe getting a facts from you with the contact information for Strange Universe or Dark Skies, but feel free to contact them directly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Strange Universe talks to me almost daily.
		I got two calls from them earlier in the day.
		So my guess is if they go up and they look at all this, they will be contacting you, and I certainly will pass on your information to them.
		Because this ought to be seen.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		This really needs to be seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess I would hope that somebody would purchase what you've got there and make it into some kind of museum.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'd like to see, ideally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To see it, you know, maintained.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		That would fulfill a deep wish inside my heart.
		And I'd like to say, too, that for your listeners, they'll get a really good look at this, if not sooner, when that program on TBS comes up produced by Very Directions.
		Rush, I talked with Rush today, and he said that they tentatively were scheduling it for a Sunday in June 29th on Sunday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll watch for that.
		And in the meantime, your stuff is up on my website.
		They can get a look there, and there is an email address to contact you there as well, John.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		There's an email there, and a fact that people can reach me at here if that is all right to give out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John Shepard, his life devoted to Project Stratt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, thank you.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		You bet, Art.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		That is John Shepard.
		And if you want to see Project Stratt, which is candy for the eyes, take a look at my website, www.artbell.com.
		Coming up, open lines.
unidentified		Welcome up, open lines.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with ART Bell.
		Listeners west of the Rockies can call ART toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
		If you're east of the Rockies, the toll-free number is 800-825-5033.
		If you've never called ART before, you may use the first-time caller line at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is Area Code 702-727-1295.
		When you get through, let it ring, and ART will answer your call in order on the air.
		This is the CDC Radio Network.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are about to get into open lines, and I'm going to give you a Mel's poll update.
		The final chapter in a moment.
		I received this just before airtime, and the story of another mystery hole that somebody sent me earlier in the day, actually a couple of them.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to all of that and a lot more in open lines coming up.
		We've been telling you the story over the last two hours of Project Stratt and a very, very, very unusual man named John Shepard in Michigan.
		And it's best told visually.
		There are a few stories that are best told visually.
		It's on the website.
unidentified		Take a look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to see it.
		I, in all my life, have never seen anything like it.
		He has devoted his entire adult life to it.
		So, all right, here we go.
		I received this literally a couple of minutes ahead of airtime, and it has to do with Mel's Hole.
		First of all, I want to thank you, your listeners, and your callers.
		I particularly want to thank the skeptics, because they are the ones that really helped me.
		I have decided to take the money and run.
		I have made a lease arrangement with regard to my land.
		The lease is to provide me with a sum of money to be deposited into an account in Australia.
		The money in Australia would allow me to immigrate to Australia because I would normally be unable to do so because of my age.
		Australia, unlike the U.S., has very strict rules regarding immigration.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess if you're older, you've got to have money.
		Interesting.
		Anyway, he goes on.
		The balance of the mortgage on the land will be paid off by the leasing party.
		I will be paid a sum of money each month for the next 100 years.
		Should I pre-decease or die, the term of the lease, the money is then to go to my estate.
		If it is feasible based on the leasing party's use of the land, I am to have my remains, upon my demise, return to the U.S. and be disposed of in the whole.
		This last item is based on the future use of the whole.
		This is incredible.
		He goes on, if any commercial use of the land is made by the leasing party, their agents, or any other entity, I am to receive 5% of the gross revenues generated by the land.
		This would be in addition to the monthly lease amount.
		The lease can be renewed at the end of the term by a request of the leasing party.
		I will be indemnified against any damage to the land or environment based on actions of the leasing party, etc.
		I'll be indemnified against any damage to the land or environment.
		He goes on to say, this is a little hard to read.
		There will be no charges of drug manufacturing against me.
		I will not be charged with the importation and propagation of non-native plants.
		Any materials regarding my research will be returned to me.
		Any personal items remaining on the property will be returned to me so long as they do not compromise the security of the property.
		In return, I am not to release any photographs, written, or oral descriptions as to location or any information that would compromise the security of the property.
		I do not wish to talk to the press.
		In my opinion, there is no press other than Art Bell.
		If you want to be on the cutting edge, he says Art Bell is a guy sharpening the knife.
		Though things were pretty scary at times, everything worked out well.
		I'm certain that if I never contacted you to begin with, I would not have been as fortunate as I am today.
		It is amazing what can happen over the span of a few days since Friday.
		I'm just trying to make it to the end of the month.
		Now money will not be a problem for me ever.
		Thank you all, and let Mel's Hole enter into that murky territory of urban mythology or conspiracy theory.
		This is the end of the trail.
		Mel.
		P.S. Yes, they will tell me about the true nature of the hole.
		No, you will not hear it from me.
		So, this appears to be the swan song of Mel.
		Maybe.
		That came about two minutes prior to airtime.
		I received a very cryptic, strange message from my affiliate, I think it's KXLE, up in Washington earlier today.
		It's on my answering service.
		I'm still not sure what that was all about, but it had to do with Mel's hole.
		Then somebody sent me the following.
		James Johnson told a very strange story to the Seattle Post Intelligencer back in June of 74.
		The Johnson family had just purchased a new home in Tacoma when their St. Bernard began sniffing around what seemed to be a small hole in the backyard.
		Thinking he had moles, Johnson ran a 50-foot-long sewer snake down the hole, but he never hit the bottom.
		Perplexed, he called a city manager who pronounced the opening to be 31 feet deep.
		By this time, the hole had widened and he could see the first few feet were lined with bricks.
		The engineer suggested the family fill it with gravel.
		To avoid the $500 cost of filling the hole with gravel, Johnson bought, get this, 164 tires from the local St. Vincent dePaul thrift store and tossed them into the hole.
		He added an old rug, some boxes, several dog bones to the mix and covered it with a wooden plank given to him by the city.
		A year passed without further incident.
		But get this, folks, when Johnson decided to install a sundeck, which would have to be built over the hole, he lifted the plank, and much to his surprise, he found the hole had sucked up all the tires.
		Johnson decided to research his house's history, and he learned that in the 1920s, the owners had also had a problem with the hole.
		They had thrown a large quantity of marble and assorted junk down into it.
		Apparently, this show of disrespect angered the hole, for an explosion literally blew everything out, marble and everything else.
		The lady living in the house was too frightened to remain and soon moved out.
		Another former resident stopped by the house and told Johnson his father had lowered him by rope down the hole in 1922.
		While in the hole, something pulled a bucket out of his hands.
		The tale of the Tacoma mystery hole quickly spread.
		Johnson was inundated with offers from people to explore it.
		Finally, he gave permission to one.
		They found some strange egg-shaped objects.
		On and on it goes with various theories then about the mystery hole in Tacoma.
		So, Nell's Hole is not the first mystery hole of this sort, apparently.
		Now another.
		Art, this may or may not be related to the hole found in Washington, but I want to share nonetheless, back in the spring of 1986, I was stationed in Germany with the U.S. Army.
	A fellow soldier who'd been to Germany before took me and one or two other friends castle hunting.
	His teenage daughter had a German boyfriend who went with us a lot on these hunts, boyfriend about 15 at the time, told us as we were going to the castle, pronounced like cologne, that a weird well was nearby.
	Explained that the man who owned the large land that the hole was in had lost some livestock mysteriously.
	Not lost as in where did they go, but as in how did they die.
	Apparently the man had owned the land for years never gave much thought to this, quote, well on his land.
	He covered it with a wooden lid surrounded by a stone wall.
	Sound familiar?
	So his livestock wouldn't fall in.
	However, livestock still were dying.
	Though he explained it was sporadic, that it didn't kill every time they got near it.
	Long and shorter is this.
	I saw it.
	It drained this hole, drained every single flashlight we ever pointed into it.
	The dogs, check this, refused to get near it and somehow did something to his sheep or goats, I forget which, that killed them.
	I don't know if the owner ever looked into animal autopsies or not find out what killed them, but there were no dead animals while I was there, so I can't comment on that.
	Personally, I thought the man was drinking too much and had made most of it up.
	I mean, the only thing that struck me out at the time was that our flashlights always drained quickly when we pointed them inside the well.
	So there you go.
	Another apparent bottomless pit, and I'm getting a lot of these kinds of stories now.
	So there it is.
	The story of Mel's hole.
	Somebody has sent me, by the way, Daryl in Rancho Mirage says, good for Mel and Art Bell.
	For Art, he had the courage to talk.
	For Mel, he was smart enough to listen.
	But wouldn't you love to hear the whole story?
	Art, you didn't make his day, you made his life.
	Therefore, you now don't have to feel guilty.
	That's true.
	I was feeling a little guilty because Mel was in so much apparent trouble.
	But it does look as though it has worked out well for Mel.
	Now, there are those who are saying he has sold out this taking the money and running business.
	I don't know that I feel that way, and I know it's easy to sit there as an armchair general and say, what a sellout, to take the money and to run but the alternative might have been to lose his land end up in jail or worse and so I can't you know I'm not going to make the judgment that he has done the wrong thing because to be frank I can't tell you in that situation what I would have done I
	I can't tell you.
	But it has certainly been a fascinating episode.
	Somebody has sent me a list now of 39 reasons why cats are better than men.
	This list is in apparent retaliation for a list I read yesterday of actually 40 reasons.
	39 were arable.
	39 reasons why dogs are better than women, so this list obviously is in retaliation for that.
	I will get to it.
	Meantime, open lines.
	I'll sort of drop a lot of items I've got here, Ian, as we go along.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
unidentified		Is this Ardell?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I have somebody that wants to talk to you.
unidentified		Put them on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the radio has got to be turned off.
unidentified		All righty.
unidentified		All righty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn that radio off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All righty.
unidentified		All righty.
		You know, I really think that there's some odd stuff out there.
		Why?
		Because it's God's land.
		I've seen this.
		I've seen a lot of weird stuff before.
		I believe this story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean Mel's story?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I sure do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I appreciate that point of view, I guess.
		I mean, half the people are going to believe it and half the people are going to think it's baloney.
		half the people are going to be angry at Mel for taking the money and running.
		And I imagine the other half are going to consider that they might have done the same thing.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll see.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		Is this Ardell?
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
		Why do I have this problem?
		Now he turned it off.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ardell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm a college student at Central Washington University, about five minutes from Manitash Ridge.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I understand it was pronounced Manashtash.
unidentified		Manashtash.
		Yes.
		Manashtash Ridge.
		All right.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm leaving the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His radio went back up again.
unidentified		Now, look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to lecture on this for a second.
		When you get on the radio when you get on the air, turn down your radio.
		That doesn't mean turn it down and then turn it back up a minute later.
		That means turn your radio down off off-ski until you're off the air.
		All right?
unidentified		Lecture ended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Jason from Joshua Tree.
		Hello, Jason.
		Yeah.
		We're in the high desert, too, you know.
		About 60 miles from Victorville?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That's about a two-day walk or a two-hour chupa run.
		What I wanted to comment on was I don't too much understand why he's going through all of this trouble to contact the UFOs.
		Why doesn't he try a flashlight?
		You mean John?
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I Well, I look, people I'm able to contact him with a flashlight.
unidentified		Well, that's good.
unidentified		I mean, people go off on different treks in their life, and that is the trek that he went off on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all.
		Yeah.
		With you, it's a flashlight.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I just go out, same sign, same place, same code on the flashlight, and they contact, and I see them right away.
		I've gotten them within 15 feet of me.
		Well, that's a tribute to EverReady.
		Yeah.
		Anyway, go out in the field and try that.
		All right.
		Thank you.
		I As you know, I'm going to go to the next slide, I'm going to go to the next slide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go to the next slide.
		flashing a light up into the sky.
		While we're walking, she doesn't like, Stop doing that!
unidentified		Stop it!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell her, you know, hon, this is just the kind of night where we're liable to see something like we saw before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		before I understand they respond to signals I'll begin you know torching the light up there a little bit and she doesn't like it she makes me turn it off she had a very different reaction to seeing what we saw than I did first time call her a line you're on the air hello hello there going once going twice gone like the wind east of the Rockies you're on the air good morning good morning hi this is Lauren from St. Paul Minnesota hello Lauren I wanted to mention that
unidentified		last night you had cloning on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I wouldn't have a clone as a slave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't?
unidentified		Well, my father is from India, and their family is well enough to have servants, and I didn't like having someone around to serve me.
unidentified		Now, I would have a clone that didn't have a brain as a possible organ harvest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean just waiting until one of your organs fails?
unidentified		Yeah, so that I would do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd have a clone without a brain, but you don't want a thinking clone.
unidentified		No, no, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't want a servant clone.
unidentified		No, wouldn't do that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as long as the clone doesn't have a brain, you wouldn't think there would be anything immoral about harvesting what you need.
unidentified		Not really, no, I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I can tell where we're headed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got news for you on cloning and a guest coming up Friday night, Saturday morning, coming up right after the break.
unidentified		I've got news for you on cloning and a guest coming up Friday night, This is TRN and CBC, talk radio network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Call our bell toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unscreened, live, open line talk radio just ahead.
		And all right, coming up Friday night, Saturday morning.
		I think that this cloning story is in its own way, ultimately as big as the splitting of the atom.
unidentified		That big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've been trying to figure out the truly appropriate way to approach it.
		And it's not easy to find a guest qualified to speak on cloning.
		But I found one.
		He is a university professor at Loyola, Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald.
		And his background includes the following.
		He is a fully qualified geneticist.
		He is, brace yourself down, also a Jesuit priest and a bioethicist.
		And he will be here Friday night, Saturday morning, and he will talk about this new discovery with regard to the cloning of a lamb, which, of course, is the same technology that would allow the cloning of a human being.
		And so here in one person, one university professor, we have all of the disciplines required to address the various aspects of this amazing story.
		That'll be Friday night, Saturday morning.
		It took me some time to find Professor Fitzgerald and to pursue him.
		And I want to thank Michael Lindemann at the 2020 group.
		And I called Michael and I said, Michael, this is a monster of a story.
		But I want to find a good guest, somebody who would be really qualified.
		And that's no easy job.
		And Michael Lindemann led me toward Dr. Fitzgerald.
		And then I pursued it from there.
		So that's coming up Friday night, Saturday morning.
		For now, back to the phones.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm so glad to be able to talk to you.
unidentified		I listen to your show all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		I have several things here that I've saved up for a period of time.
		We'll just run through them in passing, and maybe you can make some comment on them if you would.
		All right.
		Okay.
		First of all, I have met a man here.
		I'm from Las Vegas.
		My name's Ron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Ron.
unidentified		And there's a man named Stan Johnson.
unidentified		And he has a story out, the true story of Bigfoot and his UFO connections.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Stan Johnson.
unidentified		Ah, okay.
		That's absolutely great.
		Another man that is extremely interesting and has gone through all sorts of things from remote viewing to much more fantastic things is Carlos Castaneda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to interview him.
unidentified		He has a website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		If you would be interested, I can pass it on to you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's fine.
		In fact, send me some email or something.
unidentified		Okay.
		Now I have one more thing.
		Sure.
		And this is probably the most incredible of all, but you've been talking for some time about the comets, the meteors, things like this.
		Yes.
		And there's no way of, oh, say, disrupting a 20-mile-wide meteor.
		Well, I was listening to the reruns of the tapes you had by Al Bailick and Kristen Nichols.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		In which they talk about going back in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The one man even mentioned a machine, a particle gun, which they just literally took off the top of a mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		But he destroyed the plans?
		Yes.
		Let's go back in time and get that machine, and that could destroy a 20-mile meteor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess that would do it, all right.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still trying to evaluate what I think about the Philadelphia experiments.
		And I think clearly something did occur way back when.
		I don't know if it is exactly as Al Bielick described, but I think at least a good portion of it may have been.
		Al Bielick was able to describe technically things that made an awful lot of sense and things that would have probably produced the kind of results that early on they claimed they had.
		So something occurred, and I can well imagine the U.S. Navy's interest, in fact the Armed Services' interest, in invisibility.
		And that's what they were trying to do is produce radar invisibility, in fact optical invisibility.
		And to this very day, we continue to pursue the same thing with, of course, stealth technology.
		And at a time that our ships were being sunk by German U-boats on a regular basis, you can well imagine they would pursue that with vigor.
		So I do think something really did occur with regard to the Philadelphia experiment.
		Whether it was in totality, as explained by Al Bielick or not, in detail by Al Bielick, I don't know.
		But something happened.
		First time caller line, you're on the air, huh?
unidentified		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I have a call in reference to, At the beginning of the show, your guest described a light that fell from the sky.
		Yes.
		Yes, I have a similar experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One light that separated and then fell toward Earth, yes.
unidentified		Yes, actually, what we saw was three lights, but he described them as baseball size.
		Ours were a little larger.
		I describe them as softball side.
		It was on a familiar road and my wife pointed them out to me and we went to them and made Well, we followed them, tried to get under them as we were driving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And we lost them in the trees and kept driving and saw them again, and they fell to the ground, and we lost them again.
unidentified		And this went on for, I don't know, we probably traveled 50 miles, maybe an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trying to catch these lights.
unidentified		Trying to catch these lights, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you never did?
unidentified		And no, we never did.
unidentified		We ended up parked on the highway watching these lights appear and fall to the ground and reappear again and we start going down the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't begin to tell you what it would be.
unidentified		I couldn't either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I appreciate your call.
		Stories of lights.
		I mean, what do you say?
unidentified		I saw a light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's an interesting story entitled.
		Actually, this should be submitted for an award, a Darwin award, I do believe.
		Detroit, Michigan.
		A loudmouth office show-off blew his brains out when he sat down in the company cafeteria and played Russian roulette with a fully loaded revolver.
		He was so intent on showing us how macho he was that this idiot forgot to leave only one bullet in the cylinder.
		One shaken stenographer said, you don't get many chances when you play the game that way.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was going to demonstrate his prowess by playing Russian roulette, but the idiot forgot to unload the rest of the bullets, so didn't give himself much of a chance.
		That's a definite nomination.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, Arbella.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing?
unidentified		Hi, my name is Bill.
unidentified		I'm calling from West Hartford, Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bill.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I have an interesting theory about UFOs, about their origins that's different, much different than the classical idea that they supposedly came from another planet orbiting another star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, what is it?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you know, light years away, trillions of miles away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep, yep.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the point is, since many of these beings, specifically the grays, the grays or the reptoid creatures or whatever, they're all humanoid.
		Not human exactly, but humanoid in appearance.
		Humanoid, the same shape, two arms, two legs, with fingers, maybe a different number of fingers, eyes, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		My thought is they have to be related to the Earth.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Going by what Carl Sagan, the late Carl Sagan and other well-known scientists would say regarding evolution, they're too much like us to have really originated origin from another planet many trillions of miles away.
		So my thinking is it involves physics, different dimensional physics, and evolves our own planet, Earth.
		A quick five-second version, and I'll expand on that.
		A five-second version would be, could they be intelligent descendants from a dinosaur?
unidentified		Let me explain.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Could they be not so much spacecraft as space-timecraft?
		Could they be vehicles from the Earth of a different timeline?
		Let me explain.
		In other words, what would happen if the dinosaurs, this is my thinking, if the dinosaurs had 65 million more years to evolve?
		In other words, if they came from the Earth in which in their timeline, their timeline from their Earth, that asteroid that hit the Earth 65 million years ago, let's say missed the Earth entirely, okay, or hit in the sea and did not generate enough immense gust and debris to have destroyed the dinosaurs.
		So to make it simple, let's say that asteroid was on a different trajectory, missed the Earth entirely.
		So on their Earth, their Earth of their dimension or their timeline, as I call it, they lived another 65 million more years.
unidentified		Could they have evolved into these humanoid-type shapes, like dinosauroids or humanoids or whatever you want to call them, that we see these things now?
unidentified		For example, dinosaurs don't have hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think I've got the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Descendants then of the dinosaurs in a different dimension.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		In a different timeline.
unidentified		And they can pop in from the Earth of their timeline to our timeline, back and forth.
		In other words, let me expand this a little more.
		Dinosaurs don't have hair at all.
		These beings don't have hair.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Dinosaurs don't have ears.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		They're from reptiles, amphibians.
unidentified		They don't have ears.
		The eyes, maybe the eyes of these dinosaurs could have evolved to these large almond-shaped eyes that we see now.
		Dinosaurs are not mammals.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		These beings seem to be, assuming they exist, the graves and so forth, they seem to not be able to hug the young of the hybrid that people claim to have seen hybrid between humans and these beings.
unidentified		Although they'll ask women who have been abducted, supposedly, you know, and had little beings, hybrid, being taken from the universe's uteruses and so forth.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		They have the human hybrid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think I've got the idea.
		Thank you.
		Descendant from dinosaurs who were not really killed off in some alternative universe.
		Why is that why is that a likely scenario compared to the straight science version of an extinction produced by an asteroid strike?
		I mean, it's some pretty good hard science to say that did occur here.
		Now, I understand that you're talking about an alternative sort of dimensional evolution.
		I suppose so.
		It's as good as anybody else's theory.
		Hey, guess what?
		Arthur C. Clarke, the author of 2001, has authored a new book.
		It's called The Final Odyssey.
		The Final Odyssey.
		I can't wait.
		3001.
		3001, The Final Odyssey.
		Just coming out.
		Now I will read that right away, and I'll tell you a little bit about it.
		Frank Poole could scarcely believe his eyes.
		He had drifted, frozen in space, for nearly a thousand years since Hal, the spaceship discovery's errant computer, murdered him by thrusting him away from his ship.
		Now, revived by doctors and regaining his strength, Poole peered down from a room 1,240 miles above the earth.
		My God, he cried, looking out at a cylindrical elevator tower.
		Now hear me, a cylindrical elevator tower that tapered far, far below all the way down to the African plain.
		Then he turned his gaze upward, where the tower stretched to the geosynchronous orbit 22,000 miles high.
unidentified		A space elevator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is the opening scene from Arthur C. Clarke's new novel, 3001, The Final Odyssey.
		What an incredible mind this man has.
		First time caller line, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified		Yeah, my name's Greg from Chino.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Greg.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard you comment earlier about getting cancer from high-power lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of research going on about that right now, yes.
unidentified		Well, I've been an electrician for 18 years, and in that time, I've had the opportunity to work in Hollywood, where they have for the movie studios big generating stations on the lot to feed the DC lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And in the years that I've worked there, I noticed that out of all the people that worked there, because the generator operators would just sit in that room for 14 hours at a time every day, that I'd say three out of the four had cancer and had to leave their job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hate to say it, but there have been studies as well about ham radio operators having a higher incidence of cancer, being in close proximity to electromagnetic fields of large size.
		And so there's a lot of ongoing research about all of this, and I can't tell you that I have the answers.
		I just know that there are people who are suspicious.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Great show, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call, sir.
		Listen to this, folks.
		Hello, Art.
		Derek in San Antonio here.
		I thought you might want to know that KENS-TV has obtained photographs of a chupacabra captured in a trap just south of San Antonio.
		Big news, folks.
		A rancher took photos of the beast and brought them to us.
		He claims there were three.
		One in the trap and two others get this jumping up and down and they ran when he approached.
		I will try my best to describe the photos for you.
		The creature is about as long as a human leg, pasty white, has ridges on its back like a dragon.
		It has two front legs and two rear legs, and at the end of each, two tiny offshoots that I would not call fingers.
		I wouldn't call them paws either.
		Almost claw-looking.
		You can see teeth on the thing, which is draped across the ground in an arc.
		The farmer says some men saw him showing the creature and took the photo, took the creature saying they were going to have it stuffed.
		He claims to know where the body is, and we are investigating it.
		I'll be happy to send you a copy of our story, if you'd like, or send you a video of the Polaroid photos.
		Contact me, and it gives me a phone number tomorrow.
		I thought you'd want this, though, for your show this morning.
		Yours in news, Derek, in San Antonio.
		There you have it, folks.
		It looks like they may have a chupacabra.
		And they may have photographs of the chupacabra.
		And they may have a chupacabra body.
		Wouldn't this be incredible?
		Again, this is a media person, Derek, down in San Antonio, and he's referring to what KENSTV apparently has discovered.
		So I would like to know more about this.
		As you can imagine, I am going to follow this one up later today.
		What are these creatures?
		Where are they from?
		Why are they here?
		Why now?
		What's going on?
		I'd sure like to know.
		Listen to me.
		We are going to Alaska.
		This is not anybody's Alaskan cruise.
		There's lots of typical Alaskan cruises out there, and we'll do all of that, but then we'll take you into the real Alaska.
		It begins in British Columbia, Vancouver specifically, a beautiful city.
		There we board a brand new princess ship, the Dawn.
		The Dawn Princess.
		Brand new.
		And we're going to, I don't know if you've ever been on a brand new cruise ship, but it is cool.
		We'll sail through the famed Inside Passage to Catch Can Juneau, historic Skagway, then up to the face of the towering ice fields in Glacier Bay National Park and majestic college fjord.
		That is part of Most or many Alaskan cruises, but you see, here is where ours separates from all the rest.
		Take it from me, I know Alaska.
		You want to see Alaska, you need to see the interior of Alaska as well.
		So, when we get to Seward, Alaska, we go into Anchorage.
		There, we board the Princess Cruise Lines, luxurious ultra-dome rail cars, and we travel on the Alaska Railroad to the famed Denali National Park.
		After that, we continue on by rail and visit Fairbanks, Alaska.
		You have got to come along.
		Ramona will be there.
		I will be there.
		Many others you know will be there.
		You'll be allowed to take photographs.
		I'll take pictures with you and all the rest of that sort of thing.
unidentified		By then, my new book will be out.
unidentified		That's by next month it's going to be out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any rate, this is going to be the Alaska Cruise, I guarantee folks, of a lifetime.
		If you want to come along, you must act quickly because it is filling quickly.
		East of the Rockies, the number is 1-800-633-2732.
		Call it, you know, about 8 o'clock in the morning or something.
		That's 1-800-633-2732.
		West of the Rockies, it's 1-800-848-7120.
		That's 1-800-848-7120.
		Get that call made because it's filling quickly.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Listeners west of the Rockies can call ART toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
		If you're east of the Rockies, the toll-free number is 800-825-5033.
		If you've never called ART before, you may use the first charm caller line at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is Area Code 702-727-1295.
		When you get through, let it ring and ART will answer your call in order on the air.
		This is the CDC Radio Network.
		This is the CDC Radio Network.
		Thank you.
		Art Bell is taking calls from the wildcard lottery at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yesterday I read you 39 Reasons Why Dogs Are Better Than Women.
		So today, from San Diego, I have received 39 Reasons Why Cats Are Better Than Men.
		This is not going to be easy for me to read, but in all fairness, I will.
		Cats only purr when you stroke them.
		Cats clean themselves.
		The only toys that cats want are cat-knit mice.
		It's okay to neuter them.
		They'll warm your cold feet without complaining.
		Their whiskers won't scratch your face.
		They sit on your lap and only shed fur.
		The worst pest they carry is fleas.
		The worst mess they make is in their litter box.
		If you put them out at night, they never complain about it in the morning.
		You know they trust you when they let you scratch their tummies.
		They don't complain about eating dinner out of a can.
		You don't have to remind them to wear their coat.
		They never have to ask for directions.
		When they do go hunting, you never have to clean their prey.
		They don't mind wearing collars.
unidentified		They bite if they love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This one really hurts.
		They don't know how to open super glue.
		You can carry them outside the bedroom if they snore.
		When they run around, you don't have to divorce them.
		They only growl at you when you really deserve it.
		They can think for themselves.
		They won't starve if you have to be away for a couple of days.
		And you don't come home to a sink full of dirty dishes.
		It's okay to let them follow their instincts.
		It's okay to engage in petting someone else's cat.
		If they bring you a dead present, you don't have to pretend you like it.
		That one hurts too.
		Cats are never late for dinner.
		Their friends are not rats.
		They don't take it personally if you have a headache.
		You aren't disappointed if your cat doesn't remember your birthday.
		The cat never leaves the toilet seat.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one hurts too.
		They never have to say they're sorry.
		You can ignore a cat if it plays with its food.
		Cats are more sensitive to your moods.
		Oh, that one cuts deeply.
		Cats are more sensitive to your Mood.
		Your cat falls asleep on the TV, not in front of it.
		Your cat won't get upset if you turn off the football game.
		Cats don't care how much you spend when you go shopping.
		And finally, your cat never tells you how to improve your driving.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose, in all fairness, I had to read that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Art.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, goodbye.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello, Bart.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bart?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's Bart?
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bart Simpson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Sorry, Art Bell.
unidentified		This is the first time I got a chance to call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here you are.
unidentified		I just thought your show tonight was really interesting, and I saw something neat on Discovery this evening where a guy in northern Oregon is going about searching for Bigfoot, and he put, what, like surveillance cameras in the desperate areas where he thought he might find them.
		I thought that was a really good idea.
		It's about time somebody did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he find anything?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		He's just trying it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's just beginning the project.
unidentified		Right, right.
		It was on Discovery this evening.
		I was wondering what anybody else thought about that.
		I thought it was pretty clever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's along the lines of, for a while we had a link up on my website.
		It may still be there somewhere.
		I don't know.
		A lady who had a haunted house, and she put, I think, seven cameras around her house, including under her bed, and you could access them from the internet, and people could go in and look at this lady's house 24 hours a day and watch for ghosts.
unidentified		Did anybody see anything?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Wow, that's pretty neat.
		Hate when that happens, though.
		Well, I also wanted to compliment Keith on his webpage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a good one.
unidentified		Oh, it's just fantastic.
		You know, I kind of write a few web pages myself now and then.
		And I just, every time I go to that page, I'm impressed.
		You know, when it comes up, the music comes on with your team show and everything.
		Yes, and I was really amazed.
		I don't know how many people appreciate how much work goes into that web page.
		But that guy spends a lot of hours slaving over the images and everything, getting it all going right.
		He's just done a fantastic job.
		I really have a lot of respect for Pete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do I. He works very, very, very hard at what he does.
		And the website is every day there's something different there.
		And I think that's what has people coming back all the time.
		But that's a lot of people.
unidentified		I would like some of the other callers to get a chance to talk to you.
unidentified		And if possible, I'd like to see if anybody else saw that thing on Discovery this evening on the Big Boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got an article here entitled, Dark Dealings in the Vatican.
		Although it passed completely without notice in the U.S. press, a bombshell was dropped in Rome last November and continues to send shockwaves that are being felt in political and religious circles worldwide.
		Commenting on the growth of evil in the world and the need for the church to appoint more get this, more exorcists to aid the many people who are possessed, obsessed, or disturbed by demonic activity, the archbishop stated, Now the third dimension of evil is the most dangerous.
		It is subtle and the most terrible.
		I could not believe when I discovered this third dimension of evil.
		The third dimension is people who follow instructions in satanic sex.
		Now with this third dimension, I'm sorry to say our church belongs to it.
		I'm very sorry I could not understand it myself.
		And even now I don't understand.
		But the only solution that I have is together with Jesus, three years he never changed.
		Then I understand the third dimension of evil existed, not only now, but it existed even then because nothing could change the heart of Judas.
unidentified		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The devil in the Catholic Church is so protected now that he is like an animal protected by the government.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So apparently the Vatican is trying to get more exorcists to deal with the increasing evil in the world.
		What do you make out of that?
		And again, they suggest here that all of this passed basically without any notice in the U.S. press.
		That the church is moving toward a war with evil, an open war with evil in the world.
		Wouldn't you be interested in that?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Joel in Wyoming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You're talking about how somebody was talking about shining lights in the sky and getting aliens down?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, well, we do that out here, and every once in a while we get some sort of response, not exactly sure what it is.
		This kind of light comes swooping down.
		It's kind of a glowing light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder really, honestly, why people do that.
		Because suppose you really did get a visitation.
		I mean, suppose you were abducted.
		Suppose you were strapped down on something with long needles.
		You know, that sort of thing?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine after that you'd keep your flashlight in your pocket.
unidentified		Well, it'd keep your lesson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, good luck to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember the deformed frogs, folks?
		This is from the St. Petersburg Times.
		It's entitled Deformed Bugs Found in Dirty River.
		Fish are not the only funny-looking critters.
		Here, a pair of Florida A ⁇ M University researchers have found now deformed Bugs in the North Florida stream, polluted for decades by the Buckeye Florida pulp mill.
		The bugs, snow bugs, and mayflies have enlarged or extra structures on their gills.
		Oh my deformed bugs.
		I wonder how long it's going to take for this to move its way up the food chain.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Dan in Salemorium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dan.
unidentified		I was wondering if you can help me out.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I just moved from the Bay Area up here, and I heard you advertise that radio from the D-Plane company, and you say you can get the Bay Area, San Francisco on that radio?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely do, yes.
unidentified		Do you think if is that KSFO that you're talking about?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Because I used to listen to you on KSFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you now?
unidentified		I'm in Salem, Oregon.
unidentified		Salem, Oregon.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And I'm wondering if there's a radio out there maybe with the select antenna that I might be able to receive it during the day if that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not so sure that Salem, Oregon would be an appropriate place to try to get KSFO.
		But there should be lots of alternatives for you there.
		For example, how about KYKN, 1430 on the dial in Salem, Oregon?
unidentified		Yeah.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I think I'm getting you on KEX right now.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's Portland, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I'm trying to tell you there's a station right there in Salem.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1430 on the dial.
		Oh, okay.
		I mean, you know, that should come in on your tooth fillings or something.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Well, I appreciate it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		That's all I really wanted to know if I could be able to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, tune around toward the top of the dial and you'll hear us.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		So you don't think the odds for me of being able to pick up cases of open material is very good, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
unidentified		Okay.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		All right, I just want your opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, there it is.
		I'm being honest with you.
		No, I don't think so.
		I mean, you might catch them, and with enough antenna gain and directionality, you might be able to pick them up, but I think it's going to be a struggle for you.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, hi, Ert.
		Tonight I was listening to that broadcast where the guy is talking about the elderly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be Albeelic, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, Albelek?
		Yes, Steve.
		Anyway, as I was sitting there listening, some stuff kind of rang a bell for the first time.
		I'd seen that movie about that event several times, but nothing ever soaked in.
		Anyway, I remembered hearing where people talked about their encounters with UFOs, and the UFOs seemed to be surrounded by some sort of like, what they call a cloud of some sort?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A corona.
unidentified		Corona?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, corona.
unidentified		Oh, I thought they meant like a cloud of some kind.
		But I was just thinking, well, if it is something like that, could it be that somebody in a different dimension has phased themselves out of their dimension and they come into this one?
		I don't know.
		Kind of like, you know, the elders disappeared, and the guy said that the only thing he could really see was just like a cloud of smoke, you know, around the outline of the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a very similar type thing.
		In other words, some sort of corona.
		Yes, it could be.
		It could be that dimensional travel is or has associated with it this kind of corona.
		And it could be that the key to this kind of travel is the high-intensity magnetic and rotating RF fields as described by Albilic in the Philadelphia experiment.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Morning, Art.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I think let me tell my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, please do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're going to have to speak up because I can barely hear you.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I was wondering, I know Tuff said experiments with very low sound, like about from 5 to 10 hertz around about that ceiling.
		And I was wondering if they've ever followed through with Tesla's experiments that very low frequencies such as that emanate a sine wave and with very strong powers that emanate the cosine wave and where the sine intersects the cosine with the potential.
		And I was just wondering if anyone has ever experimented, to your knowledge, with Tesla's laws.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not to mine, but we can ask the audience.
		I know that there are increasing numbers of people experimenting with very, very low frequencies.
		And I think some of it is very dangerous.
		It's down near the frequencies that our brain is thought to operate on.
		And I think it represents a possible biohazard.
		That's why I was asking John about any effects that he might have felt.
		Even operating as high as 40 hertz.
		There would be some, no doubt, wideband that might go down as far as that, and you would think there would be some biological effects.
		Wildhard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, this is Steve in Minnesota.
		Hello, Steve.
		Hello.
		Hey, is there supposed to be some kind of test Friday night with HARP that we can tune into?
		I heard something about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's March 7th and 8th, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Do you know where do you go to tuning that in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to be experimenting on 6.99 megahertz and 3.4 megahertz.
unidentified		And what time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About between about 0,430 and 0,500, roughly, Universal time.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		Perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, thank you.
		And if you happen to catch the signals and you get them, they will actually send you a card of confirmation that you have received HARP.
		And you can bet that I'm going to be listening.
		I'm sure you will too.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello?
		Goodbye.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, Will, WTGY, Madison, Wisconsin.
		I had a question for you.
		The ever-persistent Will.
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, if you could kindly ask the answer, pass you an answer.
		Apparently in Australia, people listening to an AM radio can put an antenna into the ocean offshore and can pick up AM radio signals from America.
		Has he tried to put an antenna into the Lake Michigan and can he hear anything?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I would say no.
		Nel, antennas generally are very efficient when they're operated above water, particularly for reception in lower frequencies like the AM band.
		And the opposite is true as well, Nel.
		And that means that if you want to transmit, you will notice that some of the most effective AM transmitters are located near large bodies of water, but they are generally above those large bodies of water or adjacent to them to use them as ground reflectors.
		Putting an antenna underwater would not, it seems to me, be a very efficient way to operate, whether it's in Australia or here.
		So you've got it close to right, Mel.
		You want an antenna up above or adjacent to water, and it makes a wonderful reflector.
		But putting it underwater, not to the best of my knowledge, Mel.
		I mean, Will.
		This is CBC, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to generate To realize what I am now I have to be the only care of what I am Thank you.
		This is TRN and CBC, Talk Radio Network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Thank you.
		Call Art Bell, toll-free.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
		Top of the morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Great to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to the phones.
		It'll stay open lines now through the end of the program.
		And I'm very, very glad you're along for whatever this ride turns out to be, and I never know night to night.
		All right, this is kind of an interesting letter that relates to a lot of what we're discussing this morning.
		See what you think.
		Dear Mr. Bell, I've been a listener to Dreamland for about three years.
		I'm also a pilot and flight instructor and a veteran of U.S. Air Force Intel.
		I was in the 4602nd AISS in the late 1950s, whatever that is.
		I'm certain you've heard of this unit.
		No, I haven't.
		Like you, I've had one UFO sighting, been a member of MOVON since 1986, and continue to be interested in the subject.
		However, I'm also somewhat skeptical of many so-called ufologists who have emerged in the last several years.
		What prompts me to write to you is a rather unusual phenomenon, which I've been experiencing since early December of 96.
		At first, I thought it was a low hearing problem or a hearing problem because I've been hearing low frequency noise coming from my apartment.
		Not finding anything, I asked the neighbors, and finally the local electric company.
		Within days, I noticed I was hearing the noise, a low pulsating hum, varying in intensity and pattern, but not frequency, while hiking west-north and northeast of Tucson at distances of up to 15 miles apart.
		I thought something was amiss with my hearing, so I consulted an audiologist, a specialist here in town.
		I received a comprehensive hearing test, an acoustic reflex test.
		The doctor's equipment was able to test a person's hearing down to 125 Hertz.
		What I was hearing, and I heard it during the tests as well, was below the capacity of his equipment, probably in the area of 20 to 80 hertz.
		He concluded, and I concluded, the noise was not internal, but external.
		The doctor mentioned to me that he had received telephone calls from three other people during the last month from divergent locations around Tucson, all reporting the same kind of sounds.
		Also during a trip last week to Prescott, Arizona, 200 miles north of here, I heard the same sounds on two occasions when I was a mile or so outside of town.
		Another local audioologist told me that similar hearings were reported last year from the Santa Fe, Taos, New Mexico area, and the source was perhaps the Hughes Missile Systems and or U.S. military.
		Frankly, I suspect a similar source for what I've been hearing.
		I understand the U.S. military was involved in the 1960s in ELF radio transmissions to submerged submarines around the world from a huge antenna array located in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
		I lived in southern Michigan for many years and heard these accounts from time to time.
		I'm told that normal human hearing is 20 to 20,000 hertz.
		However, most people cannot hear what I hear.
		I'd like to know whether you are aware of any military and or corporate low-frequency experiments going on during the last month or two.
		Larry from Tucson, Arizona.
		Larry, we've got a buzz going on here where I live right now.
		There is some kind of low-frequency something that is being heard and felt by people in my valley, the Brump Valley.
		Indeed, there was such an occurrence ongoing in New Mexico.
		So I thought I would toss that out for anybody out there who has also heard what Larry has heard.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		I have a question for you.
		Sorry.
		First, my name is Shane.
		I'm calling from Tri-Cities, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And it was about a guy named Mel that had a hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we talked about that tonight.
unidentified		Okay, I missed that because I just got off work and took my radio line, and I just wondered if any follow-up on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mel has sold the property.
unidentified		Oh, he sold it?
		Yep.
		And he felt the government is up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very good question.
		I read the facts.
		I'll try and get to it again if I can, but I've read it already twice tonight.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Okay, well, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		Yes, he has sold or leased the property.
		And apparently, the deal he has made is going to fix him up for life.
		You can choose to either believe this to be true or not.
		But he does not want to talk to the media.
		And boy, I've got a lot of media who would like to talk to Mel.
		I'll tell you that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello there.
unidentified		I'd like to speak to the host there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is number one.
unidentified		All right.
		Oh, man, I'm on already, huh?
		Hey, I got a question for you.
		All right.
		How do you feel?
		I mean, I know you guys have been talking about possible alien life and everything like that, but I feel, honestly, I feel that there's no life out there besides what we have here on planet Earth.
		How do you feel about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
unidentified		Really?
		Because it just doesn't seem possible that there's anything else.
		I mean, you look into the stars, you look out there, and I mean, there's a lot out there, but it's just so impossible to even, you know, fathom that there's life out there.
		Why?
		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only reason why I'd say that is Yeah, they're stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're like our sun, right?
unidentified		Yes, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And around them, there are planets.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More planets than you can imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More planets than there are grains of sand on the beach, or all the beaches.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, why is it hard for you to imagine that there would be life elsewhere?
unidentified		Well, the only reason why I imagine that I feel this way is because if you look at a human, like with computers and everything, it is so hard to even produce something that is even slightly intelligent.
		It would take, oh my gosh, it would just be so hard to even...
		Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
		We're a fluke of nature, is what I'm saying.
		It would just be, it's so impossible for it to even happen anywhere else.
		God doesn't even know what happened here, is my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God doesn't know what happened here.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we are a mystery even to God.
unidentified		Well, I think so, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly a new take on things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you arrive at this philosophical conclusion?
unidentified		I think we are kind of an experiment.
		Our higher being, even God, would say that we are...
		Gone wild, maybe.
		I mean, we're beyond.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whose experiment are we?
unidentified		Oh, it has to be God's experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you just said God didn't know anything about us.
unidentified		Well, no, I think...
		I mean, there's no doubt about that.
		But I think we have gone beyond what God expected.
		Starting from the beginning, though.
		I mean, when everything was created and he did, or she, whatever it is, did his own thing, it's gone a step beyond.
		Going back to my original point, I think that we are the only life.
		Or maybe not only life.
		I think there might be other life out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we already know there's microbial life from Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We know that.
unidentified		Yeah, there might be other cellular life or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But nothing that has evolved to an intelligent level.
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		Yeah, that's my opinion, at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good enough.
		I appreciate your opinion, and you could be correct.
		But wouldn't it be sad and lonely to look at all those stars with all those planets and imagine the only place that life, intelligent life, has evolved, would be here?
		That would be pretty sad, wouldn't it?
		First time call our line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Arthur.
unidentified		This is Ben from Deser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, yes, sir.
unidentified		Kind of on the subject of HARP, I've got that information down.
		I'm going to set up my equipment to record it.
		But you've heard of these number stations that you can pick up on short waves there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The what stations?
unidentified		Number stations, they just recorded voice that just keeps going on and on with an endless string of numbers and letters.
unidentified		Have you ever heard of those?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, usually it's some kind of code.
unidentified		Yeah, there's been a lot of books circulating around, and it's all speculative of what they are.
unidentified		I'm just wondering if you knew anything knew what they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Secret codes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what they are.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		It'd be kind of interesting if you could have to guess sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12, H, 16, Dash, 4, 3.
unidentified		That's about it, though, on the base 10 radio.
		Yeah, I've had one of those for several months, and I'll tell you what, everything you say it is, great for tapping.
		I take that along with my selected camera.
		It is that don't have one, they don't know what they're missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		It's a wonderful radio.
		I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of odd things that you will hear on short wave that are very hard to explain.
		And they are various things.
		Many of them are codes, some from the government, some, no doubt, from drug dealers.
		All kinds of nefarious, strange sources in all corners of the world.
		That is part of the adventure of short wave.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we just missed them.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		New district here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Glad you're doing better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad.
		Glad to hear you.
		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Say, I grew up 70 miles east of where this hole is, you know, by Owensburg.
		And I tend to believe there might be something to it.
		And I'm just wondering, you know, now that Mill's on his way out, if maybe some of the neighbors could be interviewed by you or other media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if any of them want to contact me, I'm certainly open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know that.
unidentified		Yeah, there might be some more light shit on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, just a thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Take care.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is JJ from Austin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Austin, Texas.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Two callers ago, the gentleman that finds it hard to believe that there might be something out there.
		People like that really amuse me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to allow that it may be so.
unidentified		Well, I do, somewhere, because I consider myself extremely open-minded in comparison to when I look around at other people's responses to certain things, especially when I have talks with people about things that I hear on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's simply less likely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's more likely that there is life than not.
unidentified		Yes.
		Basically, anybody that can think that it's just not possible that, you know, considering what all we must have gone through to evolve to the point that we're at, you know, I think if you really did look at the big picture of things, philosophically speaking, you would have to be an extremely egotistical person to think that.
		Because in the big scheme of things, we really don't amount to a hill of beans, if even that.
		And I don't know.
		It's just the skeptics like that, I appreciate them, though, because it makes the grasp of the information have to be that much more solid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, don't sell us too short here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're more than a hill of beans.
unidentified		Well, well, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we might be less than a towering mountain.
unidentified		I don't know.
		I think philosophically speaking, you know, like, of course, I think very Eastern philosophically.
		So I think that might have something to do with it.
		But I don't know.
		It's just interesting to listen to people like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think very Eastern?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like a New Yorker?
unidentified		That, too.
		I'm pretty short with people.
		I don't mean to be, but I shouldn't be.
		But not in a bad way.
		I just feel like I'm just getting by or something.
		I don't know.
		But I do want to let you know.
		I have started little art bell parties all over Austin here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, you might want to know that modeling myself after the president, I have adjacent to my studio a bedroom where my uplink transmitter is located.
		We call it the uplink room.
		And we're going to be auctioning off opportunities to sleep in the uplink room.
unidentified		You're kidding me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		I want in on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I have to go.
		I just thought I'd drop that little bomb on you there.
		Yes, indeed.
		Opportunities to sleep in the famous Uplink room.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Jerry in St. Louis, Missouri.
		Hi, Jerry.
		How are you?
		Pretty good.
unidentified		I thought that was a pretty interesting story about Mel with the Hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I sure hope he makes it.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Art, do you know if they're going to try and pick up Dreamland in St. Louis again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dreamland will most assuredly, either on the station you're now listening to or another, be in Dreamland, or be in Dreamland, be in St. Louis shortly.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you very much, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		All things given time.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, let me turn my radio off here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, Carl Sagan, some years ago, I remember hearing him say something about, talk about all the millions and billions and billions of stars out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I was very surprised at the fact that he said that the chances of life out there was almost non-existent.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, just someone as brilliant as he was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not science.
		That's not science.
		That was an opinion.
unidentified		Well, to me, maybe it was government.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		You know, he got a lot of grants and things.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		So maybe he had a little pressure not to let on.
unidentified		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I kind of want to hear your opinion on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my opinion is that more likely than not, there is intelligent life out there.
unidentified		Well, I believe it very much.
		My opinion.
		But I just remember years ago just being so surprised that he would say something like that.
		I mean, we look at the universe and there's places that just we don't even know exists.
		Or if we do, we are.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It's beyond our imagination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I wasn't actually aware that he really said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite to the contrary, I always thought that he had maintained that there was a high probability of life.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, this is probably actually 10 years ago, and I remember him saying it.
		I remember just like it took me aback to hear him say something like that.
		You know, who knows?
unidentified		Just wanted your opinion.
unidentified		Love his show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that I have wondered aloud about, and I will wonder aloud about it again right here, is that our planet absolutely is irradiating and has been for many years now, all kinds of RF energy that would easily escape the ionosphere.
		FM, television, microwave, all kinds of things that would be by now light years and light years out.
		And one would imagine that many evolved intelligent civilizations would at least go through a period where they would emit our energy.
		Now, we should have, it seems to me, received some kind of signal by now.
		And we have not.
		Actually, that's not true.
		SETI has received signals they cannot account for.
		But nothing that you would expect to receive, for example, from Earth several light years out.
		So, I don't know.
		It seems to me we should have heard SETI.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Kim from Santa Susana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Santa Susana?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Where is that?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, they incorporated it into what's called Simi Valley in Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, I have a couple questions first.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		First, I'm listening to you on my Bayesian radio, and it's everything you say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Except for on KBC, you're not on at 11.
unidentified		So I have to get Nevada.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I get all kinds of stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And I was wondering if and when you're going to be, if you're going to cover that 11 p.m. slot on KBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There will be a solution to it shortly.
unidentified		All right.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And my other question is, now talking about low hertz, megahertz, is the woodpecker effect still going on from that attack?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have.
		No.
		No.
		The Russian woodpecker was, we believe, an attempt at over-the-horizon radar.
		The ability to look over the horizon and get a return as you would in radar normally.
		And for years and years, the Russians polluted the shortwave frequencies with this thing called the woodpecker.
		And it was really a pain in the neck for hams because the Russians, of course, did not respect amateur frequencies, and their stupid woodpecker was all over the place.
		But in recent years, I have not heard it, so I presume, well, actually, without the money, they probably had to turn the damn thing off.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Listeners west of the Rockies can call ART toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
		If you're east of the Rockies, the toll-free number is 800-825-5033.
		If you've never called ART before, you may use the first-time caller line at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is Area Code 702-727-1295.
		When you get through, let it ring, and ART will answer your call in order on the air.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		I am.
		Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
		Super Sabra, por fin, no, la canina y yo, en México, desde Puerto Rico, Nicaragua, eres Super Sabra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guess what, everybody?
		It is confirmed.
		I just spoke to the newsroom at KENS in San Antonio.
unidentified		It's confirmed.
unidentified		Maybe not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, hear this.
unidentified		This is a big common jupacabra.
		Four feet tall, like a new jihuahua.
		The mythical baby for the real jupacabra.
		Hey, jupacabra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm going to ask you to do me a favor And not call the KENS Television newsroom.
		But I just did on the advice of a listener because they confirmed it.
		Here is the first report I got.
		Hello, Art.
		This is Derek in San Antonio.
		And I thought you'd want to know that KENS Television has obtained photographs of a chupacabra captured in a trap just south of San Antonio.
		A rancher took photos of the beast and brought them to us.
		He claims there were three, one in the trap and two others jumping up and down as they ran when he approached.
		I will try my best to describe the photos for you.
		The creature is about as long as a human leg, pasty white, has ridges on its back like a dragon.
		It has two front legs and two rear legs, and at the end of each, two tiny offshoots that I would not call fingers, but I wouldn't call them paws either.
		Almost claw-looking.
		You can see teeth on the thing, which is draped across the ground in an arc.
		The farmer says some men saw him showing the creature and took it, saying they would have it stuffed.
		He claims to know where the body is, and we are investigating.
		I'll be happy to send you a copy of our story if you'd like it, or send you a video of the Polaroid pictures.
		Contact me at.
		He gives me a number.
		I thought you'd like this information.
		Well, I read that, as I do many things I get.
		Then I got this.
		Art, I just got off the phone with someone at the KENS television station, and she confirmed the story.
		She said the creature has been taken to Austin, so they have it, for further analysis.
		They have the video, but they cannot yet release it.
		The phone number for the newsroom is blah, blah, blah, if you want to call them.
		And I did during the news break.
unidentified		She confirms it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's all I can tell you at this hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have a chupacabra.
unidentified		They have a chupacabra, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it is presently on its way to Austin to be tested.
unidentified		So there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, please do not call the KENS television newsroom.
		Take what I have given you as the definitive information.
		The poor gal there is going nuts taking calls ever since I read that story.
		And that's all she would be able to tell you what I just told you.
		So there you have it.
		When there are further developments, you know me.
		I will get them to you.
		If I can get my hands on this photograph, you know me, it'll be up there for you to see.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		This is Mike in Maum, Minnesota.
		Hello, Mike.
unidentified		I called the other night with Jim Forbes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		About the green meteors.
		I never got my question answered if you knew what that was, the green color.
		If it would be like copper or...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that meteors re-entering would produce all kinds of different colors, obviously, depending on, you know, as they burn in the atmosphere, depending on what they're made of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, no, I don't know what it would be.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And I had a couple other questions.
unidentified		Do you think Bob Lazar is credible?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And is the Gulf Breeze sightings, have they been deemed a hoax?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they have not.
		There are people who tried to show they were a hoax.
		They found some sort of model that a lot of people think was planted.
		But most people I know, most ufologists, believe Gulf Breeze was absolutely genuine.
		There were hundreds of witnesses.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was there, and I mean, we didn't spend much time looking, but we found a little spot where they kind of congregate along the Salt Beach there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it seems credible.
		Bob Lazar, my answer is, I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I would like, I've interviewed Bob Lazar on about two or three occasions.
		It's been a while, and I would like to interview him again.
		He's probably sick to death of telling the story.
		So my answer is, I don't know.
		He tells a very good story.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I got that model for Christmas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got one sitting five feet away from me.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Are you ever going to be coming to Minneapolis?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to be on a book tour for the quickening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Answer, I don't know.
		I would love to come to Minneapolis.
		So maybe.
		Maybe.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you do, I hope to meet you on that lovely show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
unidentified		Okay, bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Another thing is, please do not call my publisher.
		I have a big book coming out.
		I'm almost sorry I even said anything about it ahead of time.
		I probably should not have because it's generating so much discussion and so many calls to a very, very busy publisher.
		It is a big book.
		It's about 330 or 40 pages now by the time it's done.
		And it's going to the printer on Monday.
		That's how close it is.
		But you can't get it yet.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Although I do have a galley copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't forget, folks, we're auctioning off nights in the uplink room.
		We call it the esteemed uplink room adjacent to the room where I'm actually doing the program here.
		Donations.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, sir.
unidentified		So they finally got one of them real dickens, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would seem so, yeah.
unidentified		Who's got it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, well, nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I only, no, not the government, apparently.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But whoever has it, it's on the way to Austin for testing, and they've got lots of good video and photographs of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, this sounds real.
unidentified		Cool.
		I've got a question for you.
		Now, they're saying they can clone a sheep, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		Now, wasn't it last year that they came up with some dino DNA?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I follow you.
		Yes.
		The answer is yes, they probably could.
unidentified		They said that DNA on that dinosaur was viable, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now here is one where we really should ask, should we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't want to see any dinosaurs?
unidentified		Well, not if they got a big fat guy with glasses working a computer, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you've got to wonder sometimes about movies being just barely ahead of reality.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes leading us into it.
		You know they're going to try something like that, though.
		You just know it.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		If they're not doing it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I say, let's start with the plant eaters, okay?
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		The little ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No flesh eaters, no Trianosaurus rexes, that sort of thing.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Let's go with the little ones, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No raptors.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I particularly dislike the raptors.
unidentified		Yeah, but I just thought I'd put that in your mind there.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
		I'll have a nice dream about that.
		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		Clone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, what a story this clone is.
		I'm going to have, I think, the appropriate guest on for it Friday night, Saturday morning.
		And we'll get the good hard science.
		and will get the religious you mv ethical you as well I really think this is as big a story as the splitting of the atom.
		That's how big it is going to get.
		Are we cloning humans?
		Yes, I believe we have already done so.
		Is it wrong?
		I don't know.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
		Going twice, gone.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Is, you know, about this cloning stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Is, I've got a question for you.
		You know, a lot of these people are really worried about, like, Saddam Hussein and all these other ones.
		Wouldn't their past, you know, their life that they grew up with, wouldn't that make them different, the clone different than the person that started?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, potentially.
		I guess it could work out that way.
		You know, you are a product of not just your genetics, but your environment as well.
unidentified		Right.
		You did hear what the sheep did say to the clone, didn't you?
		I am you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I appreciate that sort of, sir.
unidentified		I'm remembering you up here at Portland, and if you go on your book tour, we hope you come back up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		I am you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have to live with a lot of jokes out of this, you know.
		You know, I just realized it was a little stuffy in here, and I realized I had my window shut.
		Very exciting.
		It looks like they've got a chupacabra in San Antonio, folks.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, thank you very much, Art.
unidentified		This is Chris in Seminole, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Chris.
unidentified		Hi.
		By the way, we don't get your last hour in this area, so any responses I wouldn't be able to hear on the air.
		But I'm calling for a couple of reasons.
		First of all, regarding your caller, or your, I'm sorry, your guest earlier tonight, where he's trying to attract UFOs.
		Strange Universe about a month or so ago had a segment where a man devised a technique for filming the sky where he would put his camera just underneath an overhang, for example, just to barely block the sun.
		And both he and Strange Universe were able to disfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I saw it.
unidentified		Okay.
		And the second thing was a possible reason for the government wanting to suppress any possible discovery from Mel's now leased hole is an article from February 1965 Flying Sauces magazine entitled Earth's Center of Gravity Up or Down, where they dug a couple, or they had a couple mine shafts that were connected by a tunnel.
		These mine shafts were over a mile long, and they hung a plumb bob, a weight, with both metallic and non-metallic weights and winds and cables, and because they thought it might be affecting the outcome, but it never did.
		What they discovered was that at the bottom, these weights were actually further apart always in every experiment than they were at the top of the shaft.
		So this led them to believe that Earth's center or decenter of gravity was 4,000 miles approximately from Earth's surface at any point because they found this no matter where they discovered it.
		So maybe they're trying to suppress our understanding of the nature of gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As good a theory as anybody, sir.
		That's all I can say about it.
		All right, you bet.
		Take care.
		Maybe they are.
		Mel's least hold.
		Mel is now set for life, he says, which is certainly a better situation than he had the other day when he was worried about getting arrested and losing his property, having it confiscated, and having somebody say that he had some sort of drug lab on the property.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
		Art Bell there?
		Somewhere, yes.
		Is it Art Bell you're wanting to talk to?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you say to him if you could talk to him?
unidentified		Oh, this is you, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm the only one here.
unidentified		Well, I was trying to get through.
		Well, you're through.
		Long time.
		Anyway, I was kind of curious.
		I got a device here that I made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		It's called a doohickey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A doohickey.
unidentified		It's like a little black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had one of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a little black hole?
unidentified		Kind of like that.
		I got three computer systems here, plus all my little electronic hardware that I got in here.
		And the neat thing is, I figured out a way of doing this.
		This is my 15th generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of what?
unidentified		It's a device that sucks up RF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sucks up RF?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
		This actually works.
		It uses aesthetic electricity that runs off of, like, let's say you got your coax.
		I got an 11-meter radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		CB.
unidentified		Right.
		But my friends are using it with their hands.
		And what it does is that it knocks the signal they're even using in their mobile.
		It takes 80% of the RS out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you want to do that?
unidentified		Hmm?
unidentified		You know, it takes the static.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The what?
unidentified		It sucks all the static out.
unidentified		So it cleans up their ears so they can hear better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea what you're talking about.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Well, this is electromagnetics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, RF transmitted is one thing.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Static in receiving is another thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One has nothing to do with the other.
unidentified		I know.
		The difference is with this, though, is that I found, because of the properties of what it does, I used to have trouble where the radio would bleed into the computers, and the computers would bleed into the radio.
		I hooked this thing up, they don't touch each other.
		That's called shielding.
		Something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you've reinvented the wheel, sir.
unidentified		Well, the thing is that it runs off of magnetism.
unidentified		That's what makes it run.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Magnetism, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you just tell us what it is, exactly?
unidentified		Well, the way this is set up is that I've got two versions.
unidentified		I've got one that's got it's a liquid form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A liquid form of what?
unidentified		Oh, you've got two magnets.
		You've got salt water.
		You've got a container.
		And you run all your ground into the positive side of this unit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, now you're beginning to make a little bit of sense.
unidentified		And then when it does that, it leaches up all that excess and then allows you to shoot out the little portions of it.
		It changes from one form into another and then out of Let me stop you.
		Hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop.
		Yeah.
		You've got how large a container?
unidentified		Right now, this one is about, oh, let's say about a couple gallons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A couple of gallons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And inside, you've got one.
unidentified		Two magnets and salt water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two permanent magnets?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two permanent magnets and salt water.
unidentified		They're opposing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That are opposing.
		The permanent magnets are in opposition to each other on each side of this container.
		And inside you've got salt water, a conductor.
		And you're taking the lead from the radio, radio, any kind of equipment, whatsoever goes directly to that, as a brown, as an artificial brown.
		Well, you know what?
		That makes some sense.
unidentified		And then the bottom magnets up all the excess that's broken down inside that field and then sends it out to your natural ground.
		And then you don't end up overloading or saturating the outside area.
		I've got a friend that has a problem that tries to set his alarm on his car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		He gets near my thing here.
		He can't set it.
		It won't send.
		It keeps sucking it all up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's interesting.
unidentified		Can you hold on?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to break here.
		This man is actually perhaps on to something.
		I've never heard about this, but it sounds logical.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		CBC.
		CBC.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		This is TRN and CBC, Talk Radio Network and Chancellor Broadcasting Company, home of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Call Art Bell, so pretty.
		West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		It is.
		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Arpell.
		Hey, this guy may be onto something.
		This is a very interesting story.
		Are you still there, sir?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've got a container with salt water in it, a couple of gallons, and that would act normally minus the magnets.
		That would act as an artificial ground to some degree.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you able to notice a significant difference with the addition of the magnets?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		It sort of like it creates its own little gravity field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you might really be onto something.
unidentified		I've been building this for quite a while.
		I just got sick and tired of everybody complaining about, oh, there's too much static.
		I can't hear anything.
		And then they complain about every time I hear them transmit on sideband with audio, I can hear the static coming in with them.
		So when I put this in line, it was like certain people, key individuals that I told to build one, they put it in line.
		And actually, it seemed like it tripled their audio output.
		And it also, their receive was more sensitive.
		And I even got it.
		I've got some friends that run Ham Radios.
		They did the same thing.
		And a guy said, God, I can't believe what, you know, I'm in these upper freaks and I have all these, I'm running these two meters or whatever, and I'm listening, and usually I get all this static, and I have to filter it out with my special filters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, he turned the filters off.
		I said, okay, now watch this.
		Put this in line.
		Now turn your filter on.
		And he turned the filter on.
		Dead silence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It keeps your radio from overloading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How strong are these permanent magnets?
unidentified		Well, I just make them out of car speakers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not strong at all, is the answer.
unidentified		Well, I got one right now.
unidentified		This is the last generation one I just showed somebody today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you ought to try a larger magnetic uh...
		field i i used to uh...
		I used to work in microwave, and there are klystron magnets that are absolutely incredible.
		I mean, they're probably 100 times stronger than what you're using there.
		And so that's, you're really on something.
unidentified		Well, I usually feel the kind of person that if I can't afford it, okay.
		And but I know I can get parts, I'll build it.
		If I can't afford the darn thing, you know, then I'll build the darn thing.
		I'll figure out what makes it fit and build it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to do some investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please contact me privately.
unidentified		I also work on computer systems.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		And please contact me privately.
		What he's doing does make some sense.
		We're dealing here with electromagnetic radiation.
		Now, salt water in a container would to some degree serve certainly as an artificial ground.
		That much is reasonable and true.
		The addition of opposing magnetic fields within that, I can imagine, would have some sort of very, very interesting.
		I'm still contemplating what that man had to say.
		At first, it did not make sense, and then suddenly it began to sink in.
		And I wonder if any of the rest of you with a technical background would care to comment by facts or email to me on what that man just said about an artificial ground of a sort I've never heard of before.
		Definitely intriguing.
		All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning, Douglas, Sarasota.
		Good job interviewing that man just now with the water and the magnet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting, though.
unidentified		But that was a good job you did.
		But you have said before that sometimes people who are not very articulate are really people who have a lot to give.
		And when he first started talking, you stayed with him and you drew him out.
		And anyway, I really appreciate you because what you had said that sometimes ordinary people have extraordinary aptitudes or gifts.
		So thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Okay, and about the lamb.
		The first thing I noticed was that this lamb is now seven months old.
		Okay?
		So what you had said was you thought probably there were other experiments going on.
		Yes.
		And now they didn't tell you until the lamb's seven months old, and they have turned it out so it's, you know, got free range with other animals instead of just keeping it isolated, which makes me think also that there's more stuff going on out there.
		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I must agree, yes.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hello?
		Hello?
unidentified		I'm looking at the radio station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What'd you say?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just wondering there.
		I can hear your radio station, but you're talking.
		It seems kind of different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you should turn your radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to be on the air, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, turn your radio off.
		Don't worry about it.
		What's on your mind?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a couple of comments about what you were saying about ancient prophets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is one of them.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		It was about the guy who was talking about a time capsule in the Sphinx.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What guy?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I can't remember his name.
unidentified		It was during the 50s.
unidentified		He was a Vikings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there's something wrong with your phone there, so you're getting all kinds of quakes and stuff from.
unidentified		Hold on.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was, I think, 50.
unidentified		Well, I know it was in the 50s.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		And he was talking about how in the 1998 there was going to be a time capsule found under the left paw of the Sphinx.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		What about it?
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was just wondering, do you know when the actual date was?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm terribly sorry I don't.
		There have been various predictions made, of course, about what is going to be found under the paw of the Sphinx.
		There have been some archaeological and X-ray studies that have shown that there are areas to explore and things to see that we have not yet seen.
		But the Egyptian authorities thus far, and probably until 1998, late 97 or 98, are not going to allow any further explanation or exploration, I mean to say.
		West of the Rockies, you're on here.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Is this Arthur?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		yesterday radio off please i'm trying to Well, you've got me, so go ahead.
unidentified		My brother from England was here, and he listened to your show, And he was very impressed with your lead in music.
		Oh.
		And also, uh, you used to um you used to tell us about uh the four brothers who made uh that very nice uh music.
		And we would like to get a table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I I don't know where you would get that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um I don't know anything about four brothers.
unidentified		Oh, there was a group and they had very unusual music.
		He was looking, my brother was looking for Aztec music.
		And we go into, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a group called Cusco, C-U-S-C-O.
		K-U-S C-U-S-C-O Z, C for...
		C-U-S-C-O.
unidentified		C or Cusco?
		Yes.
		Their brothers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, no?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		And where are they located?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Germany.
unidentified		Good heavens.
unidentified		In Germany?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he's looking for it here in England, in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can find it here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's sold here under a music label called Higher Octaves.
unidentified		Higher octave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can find it in music stores.
unidentified		I see.
		And what type of music is that?
		What is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds very Peruvian.
unidentified		Peruvian.
		Well, it's not exactly Aztec, but...
		Yeah, it's the same family, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I thank you very much, Mr. Bell.
		You bet?
		And I want to tell you that you have turned me into a regular insomniac.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I never know what to say about that, I don't know.
unidentified		What happened to the 11 o'clock hour where you started?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Los Angeles.
		Yes.
		Well, we came to an agreement with KABC because of a program that comes on earlier, Mr. KABC.
unidentified		I know, and I'm very curious about why this man first calls himself Mr. KFI, and then after a while switches over, takes one hour from you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mr. KABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that KABC would be very upset if he continued to call himself Mr. KFI while he was on KBC, I believe.
unidentified		Wouldn't the man have a name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He does, but it's a big secret.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know, because that's what he does.
unidentified		I mean, you know, he gives a lot of advice and opinions, and you don't even know his name, and one can't check up on him.
unidentified		I mean, one must always consider the source when advice is being given, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose so, yes.
unidentified		Well, this is mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the call, and it is intended to be a mystery.
		It is indeed intended to be a mystery.
		That's part of the whole thing, I guess.
		You know, it's intended that you not understand who he truly is.
		A little mystery is good in life.
		Right?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
		Yes, yes, Art.
		I got an animal ghost story, if you're interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An animal ghost story?
unidentified		A cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cat.
unidentified		Domestic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I love cats.
unidentified		Okay, here's the story.
		Years ago, visiting some friends of a friend, sitting on a couch at the end of the room.
		There was a long hallway off to the right that looked down the rest of the house.
		And very much engaged in the conversation.
		I had my hand dangling over the edge of the couch, and I felt this cat rub up against my hand.
		I'm very familiar with cats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And so I responded, you know how you do.
		You just sort of play with the cat a little bit.
		Never really looked down.
		And then the cat moved away, and then I did look down.
		I didn't see anything.
		So this struck me as strange, and I, you know, just sort of kept my eye watching out of the corner of my eye for the rest of the evening.
		Every now and then I would get a glimpse of a cat.
		So finally I asked, I said, do you folks have a cat?
		And the lady responded, what did it look like?
		So I described the cat.
		You know, it was mostly black, had a good amount of white on it, though.
		And she said, that's it.
		That was our cat.
		It was killed outside on the road about six months ago.
		Every now and then, somebody thinks they see it.
		And I recall hearing you say that you had never heard of an animal ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's not true.
unidentified		Oh, sorry.
unidentified		Well, I misunderstood then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I've heard of a number of cases of animals appearing after they'd been dead.
unidentified		Well, anyway, that's what happened.
		I thought you might be interested.
		I have a question.
		Sure.
		I listen when I can.
		I miss a lot.
		Any developments from the drummer's brother?
		Did they ever contact you?
		Can you tell us what happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed Dames, yes, Ed Dames has located the man's body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's dead.
unidentified		I figured that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And on March 6th, Ed Dames will be here to give us a more detailed edition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Kathy Kramer will be on that program as well.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		That's my birthday.
		One comment.
		You know, a lot of us don't have computers, and few of us have access to the Washington Post.
		And boy, my curiosity is really up.
		You know what, on the Courtney thing.
		Yes.
		Can you tell us a little bit about what that says?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very long article.
unidentified		Okay, is it just comment or...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an investigative piece, and I think you would find it very interesting.
unidentified		Are you going to put it in your newsletter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me...
unidentified		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me see what I can do.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		All right?
unidentified		Sign of mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Maybe we can get permission from the Washington Post to reprint it in the newsletter.
		That really is a good idea.
		Are you listening out there, network?
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		KQMS, Reading, California.
		Whoa, whoa, whoa, hi.
		You know, I think we need mystery in life, too.
		I was always thinking, if I was God and I knew everything, I would be really bored.
		There'd be no surprises.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's got to be some mystery in life.
unidentified		I think so, too.
unidentified		Hey, when you go to Alaska, can I come to your house and house sit?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I always have a house sitter when I leave.
unidentified		I know, and I'm volunteering.
john shepherd ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I know you have Nintendo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		How'd you know that?
		I just knew.
		Well, because you said your son's your Nintendo-playing son.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's true.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a fanatic.
unidentified		Well, I'd rather house sit for you than sleep in some stuffy little room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I figure if the White House can, in effect, auction off one of their rooms, that I could auction off the famous Uplink room.
unidentified		Well, if I house it for you, I promise not to put bubble bath in the hot tub.
unidentified		Have you ever tried that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bubble bath in the hot tub?
unidentified		It's a big mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Disgusting.
unidentified		Well, it seems romantic, and you light candles and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a terrible idea.
unidentified		Ten minutes later, when, like, you know, you can't see, are you there?
		Through the bubble.
		You know, what am I going to do for my radio show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What radio show?
unidentified		You know, I'm going to have a radio show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are?
unidentified		And if they get that microband radio?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		But you know what else I was thinking?
unidentified		If I had a radio show, my radio show couldn't call your radio show, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could.
unidentified		Well, yeah, but I was thinking, isn't that illegal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No, really?
		Really?
		That's even a better reason, because, I mean, that'd be half the fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sure you don't want to bid on the uplink room?
unidentified		Well, how much is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is no set price.
		I mean, it's like there can be no set price because then it would be a sale.
		We've got to operate the way the White House does and go by donation.
		It's got to be a very loose arrangement, you know.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Donation against Saturday night, the uplink room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how it goes.
unidentified		Yeah, well, we'll have to talk later then if we have to do it like the White House.
unidentified		You've got to close doors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, send a representative with a briefcase.
unidentified		Yeah, full of greens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on here.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, Arthur.
		This is Pat from Burbank, California again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Pat.
unidentified		Hi.
		Could you continue on with what you got interrupted with?
		You were saying that you came to an agreement with KABC before I talk about what I want?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't disclose the...
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I thought you got cut off on me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I was telling the caller that there is an arrangement.
		Just be patient.
		It will be apparent.
unidentified		Good.
		Okay, great.
		I wanted to talk directly to that caller that said that we were the only creatures of our type in the universe.
		Yes.
		I was exasperated when I heard it.
		If he ever took a look at the Hubble deep field that they took a picture of with billions of galaxies to behold, trillions of stars each.
		I know.
		And I think I know what the whole thing is, what the whole universe is made of, God and everything.
		It seems like to me that it is as dense as it is.
		It's made up of protons and neutrons and what have you, and all the laws that govern the molecular structure, the molecules and the atoms and the compounds, and everything that goes into that soup, the weak force, the strong force, the magnetic force, the gravity, all of that is what governs the building blocks that turn into proteins and the stuff that we're made out of.
		And there is no actual God.
		The actual physical force, physics of the universe, is actually where the God comes in.
		Now, there seems to be such an elaborate amount of people, places, and things in the universe, in other words, aliens and different civilizations, that's what we see as our gods, because they probably come here,
		they've planted life, they've nurtured us along, you know, there's like stories behind all these things, and we've turned it into some vast religious thing, and we need to have a higher consciousness about it.
		It doesn't make sense that we stick to these religious views so strongly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it has been said that if there wasn't religion in God, that we would have to invent it.
unidentified		Oh, sure, because we're a murderous monkey, and that's part of us.
unidentified		You know, the CPU.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't take that much of a negative view of it.
		And I think there probably is a God.
		I do believe in God.
		I really do.
unidentified		Couldn't it be a God from another part of the galaxy that plants us here?
unidentified		We call it God, but it's not really a God of everything, like the God of our galaxy, let's say, or our part of the galaxy, or this part of the universe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be, sir.
		It could be.
		And it could be that if we clone, as we're no doubt going to do, that that created creature would look at us as we look at what we call God.
		And with that, my program is over.
		You get the honors.
		Do it quick.
unidentified		From the high desert to Burbank, California, to Canada and all across the world and the cosmos.

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