All Episodes
Previous Next
Feb. 25, 1997 - Art Bell
02:54:21
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Emily Lau - Hong Kong
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Welcome to Arkvell, somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from February 25th, 1997.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be, across this great land, this great globe, I'm Art Bell, from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains in the West, at minimum, all the way east to the Virgin Islands in the Caribbean, U.S.
Virgin Islands, South into South America, North to the Bull, and worldwide on the Internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning, I'm Art Bell.
This morning, I am going to take you to China.
Hong Kong, actually.
Soon to be China.
And we're going to speak with a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council that has been called the Iron Lady of Hong Kong, Emily Lau.
She is a spokesperson for Frontier, which is a pro-democracy group.
Not party, but group.
And so we will talk with Emily Lau.
She was on CBS News this past Sunday.
you may have seen her.
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Now, we're going to the other side of the world, where I suspect it's probably wearing
on in the afternoon sometime after 3 o'clock or so.
And here is Emily Lau.
Emily, are you there?
Yes, I am, Art.
Oh, good.
Welcome to the program.
Very, very happy to have you.
Emily, how long have you been a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council?
Since September of 1991, and that's the year that... that was the first time that we had elections in Hong Kong.
Oh, yes, indeed.
Well, I visited your beautiful city, and I came away, Emily, with many impressions of a very, very vibrant, alive, capitalist jewel of a city where the people were very, very happy, but a little bit worried.
And then I traveled into Canton, China, up to Canton, and there I found that people were not so happy uh... people were uh... seem to be afraid they were surprised to see americans they would come running out of their stores just to see americans uh... so i had many very strange uh... impressions of uh... a communist china and one of them was it scared me i have never seen so many factories so much business are going on so many trucks going back and forth and now uh...
In July, Hong Kong is going to revert to China, and I guess there's some trouble on the horizon.
China apparently has voted down some laws that were supposed to stay in place, human rights type laws.
What happened on Sunday?
Well, on Sunday, the National People's Congress, and that is the Chinese Parliament, decided to repeal certain provisions in Hong Kong laws.
Some of those are colonial laws, which of course should cease to be enforced at the end of June anyway.
But others relate to human rights, very fundamental, basic human rights, like the freedom of demonstration, the freedom of association, freedom of assembly, and so on.
And because they think that we are too free And their excuse is that these rights are in breach of the Basic Law, which will be our mini-constitution in July, and that was, of course, promulgated by the National People's Congress in 1990.
So the long and short of it, Art, is that people are concerned.
We are afraid that we will lose our freedom.
How many people have left Hong Kong in the last several years, Emily?
Do you know?
Well, I don't think there is any exact figure.
I mean, especially, I think the emigration from Hong Kong peaked shortly after the Tiananmen Square Massacre in Peking of 1989.
And at the height of it, we saw about 60, over 60,000 people leaving.
I mean, we only have a population of around 6 million.
But I think a rough estimate right now is that out of the 6 million people, as many as 1 million have already got foreign citizenship or right of abode elsewhere.
So there are these people who have the means and they have acquired some kind of insurance policy.
Emily, how many people, percentage-wise, do you think would like to leave if they had the means to leave?
I just don't know.
I don't think too many people really want to leave.
This is our home.
But If things go horribly wrong, then I would think many would want to leave.
By then, of course, it will be too late.
Now, China would have a great interest, it seems to many Americans, in keeping Hong Kong as an open trading center to the rest of the world to increase their already great trade.
In other words, not to screw up a good thing, Emily, How do you feel about that?
Oh, yes.
I mean, this is what they call their China will not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
That's right.
And I don't think China would deliberately want to kill that goose.
Oh, no.
But that is not the most important thing to China.
And that's the first thing we must understand in looking at this whole Hong Kong situation.
It's not a question of killing the goose or roasting the goose or what.
The question is, Control.
That's what the Chinese want to make sure they have.
And, of course, in ending colonial rule, they are very proud.
They say they're ending this centuries of shame of colonialism.
Yes, I believe they have a clock in Tiananmen Square which is counting down the time until Hong Kong is returned.
Exactly, and there's one across the border from Hong Kong to Shenzhen.
Yes.
So there are many clocks.
Yes, I see.
Emily, you're very outspoken.
What do you think is going to happen to you in July when the change occurs?
Will you suddenly just be out of office, or what will your position be?
Yes, you're right.
I will be out of office on July 1st, and so will all members of the pro-democracy lobby.
Because we have refused to take part in this far-scored selection to the provisional legislature.
We don't want to have anything to do with that.
We want proper elections.
The Chinese have said there is no time for elections, so they have hand-picked a provisional legislature, and 26 of us will have nothing to do with it, so we will all be out of a job.
The United States is a great force in the world, or at least we always have been, and I'm sure that many there look to the United States for some guidance, some help.
What signals are the pro-democracy groups getting officially from the United States?
Well, officially, Members of the Clinton administration, and even members of Congress, have told us that they are very concerned about Hong Kong, and this handover is a very big event this year.
But somehow we get the feeling that, okay, they may be concerned, but there is not very much they will do if things go wrong.
And so I think what we are getting seems to be just lip service.
And it's not just about Hong Kong.
It's over human rights in general, because it seems President Clinton is now more interested in trade than in human rights, but because there are many Americans who still care about human rights, and that's why he and his officials have to pay lip service to it.
But deep down inside, they're just after money.
Well, okay, we will come back to that.
How wrong do you think it is likely to go?
I mean, what is your real sense now Of what China is going to do.
There is a change there now in leadership.
Is there any change in the political direction of China?
You mean in Peking?
In the leadership in Peking after the death of Deng Xiaoping?
Yes, yes.
Of course, I mean, I think the situation must be quite tense.
And there is, of course, fierce power struggle going on.
But I guess in the short term, and I'm talking about the next few weeks and months, There may not be any drastic change.
There is a very important Communist Party Congress coming up in October.
But we're not going to see any big change otherwise.
I mean, it could be very, very devastating.
The feeling is that there won't be any abrupt changes in the coming months.
But who knows what will happen?
Whether the person that has been hand-picked by Deng Xiaoping to succeed him, President Jiang Zemin, who knows whether he is able to consolidate his power base or not?
What is your sense of this new leader?
He is hand-picked, is he not?
And is he not likely to continue policies exactly as they were?
Well, I mean, it's very uncertain.
I mean, he used to be a bit of a hardliner, but during Jung's funeral, he gave a speech which talked about reform and so on.
And I think people are just waiting and see.
Not so much of what he stands for, but whether he is able to maintain his grip on power.
That is the first thing.
And what does he have to do to win over the various factions?
I read in a paper last week that the CIA recently had a report saying there are about six or seven factions which are fighting against him.
So I don't know whether that report is correct or not, but it is of course correct to say there's constant power struggle going on.
And heaven knows whether he will ultimately triumph.
Are these pro-democracy factions that are opposed to him?
You've got to be kidding.
Talking about reports, I mean there was another report by the State Department in your country recently about human rights in many countries and one report was on China and that report said very clearly that the Chinese government have succeeded in cracking down on the entire pro-democracy movement in the whole country and hence there is not a single dissident at liberty.
They have either been killed or imprisoned or are in exile.
Oh my god.
Hong Kong is full of lots of dissidents, lots of people who enjoy freedom and have had freedom for a very long time now and I think they will not be easily Concord, Emily, what is your feeling?
Well, the Hong Kong people feel very powerless and fatalistic.
Because, after all, most of our parents fled from China.
And mine came in 1948, the year before the Communists came to power.
And then the other half of the population are people like myself, children of such refugees.
So they are very, very scared of the Communists.
And before the might of the communist giant, they feel very, very defenseless and powerless.
And so I think people here are now getting more and more quiet because they don't want to say things and then become marked enemies.
And because the Chinese have a habit of settling accounts with its enemies, even if it's a long time later.
People are very scared.
So people, you know, if you come to Hong Kong, you don't see many people demonstrating, speaking out.
Although deep down inside, they are very frustrated.
But still, they are used, even in one generation, Emily, they are used to freedom now.
And if China comes in with an iron hand, there's going to be big trouble and potentially much bigger trouble.
than there ever was in Tiananmen Square.
Or do you think the Chinese will wait a period of time and slowly bring on the Iron Hand?
Well, I think they have brought on the Iron Hand already by dismantling the legislature and throwing all of us out of work in July.
So that is something quite drastic.
But of course, sadly, Many countries all over the world, including Britain and the United States, have been quite restrained in criticizing China.
But this is a very big thing, to throw a legitimately constituted legislature out of work, and then to impose an appointed legislature.
And also the recent decision to roll back on our civil liberties laws.
These things are quite drastic.
I mean, what are you talking about?
You sound as if they haven't done anything.
Oh no.
I'm very well aware of what they've done.
But when it really gets down to control of the individual, and of course in China, they do that.
Americans should know, if you go to China, they watch you every single minute.
And to get to that level of control in Hong Kong, With, as you point out, six million people would take a very large force.
Do you think that will happen quickly, or will that be a slow evolution?
Well, I certainly hope things will not get that extreme, but who knows?
But what we're doing now is to stop that from happening.
I think the people are quite happy to see the end of colonial rule.
What we want is them to have the right to elect our government.
Under Deng Xiaoping's concept of one country, two systems, we're not trying to overthrow the Communists.
We're just saying that please give us democracy, give us freedom, we will continue to prosper, and that would be in the interest of Hong Kong as well as in the interest of China.
Well, it seems like China, yes, has two policies.
In China, there is so much commerce.
There is so much commerce going on, but politically, it is still all closed up the way it always was.
And I'm afraid that's exactly what they're going to try to do to Hong Kong.
But I don't think it's going to work in Hong Kong, because the people of Hong Kong have had freedom for some time now, and there is an expression in America about once they've been to Paris, how are you going to keep them down on the farm?
Well, I hope you're right, but sadly it seems the people are not yet responding in a very robust manner.
To all of China's threats and intimidations.
And in fact, we get people saying, well, okay, let us try to adjust.
But I think when the crackdown comes, when the repression comes, I guess people will rise up.
If you cast your mind back to 1989, before and after the Tiananmen Square Massacre, one million Hong Kong people took to the streets to demonstrate in a very peaceful way.
So they have stood up in the past for the Chinese people, And they must stand up for themselves.
Nobody wants to see another Tiananmen Square or anything like it, but I can imagine such a thing occurring.
And what about you personally, Emily?
You're speaking out, here you are, talking to all of the West about what's going on there.
You said it yourself, the Chinese do not forget, and even if it's a long time, they settle accounts.
What about your account, Emily?
Well, I don't know.
I'm sure I'm one of those marked people.
But the fact that I'm concerned about my future has not, you know, stopped me from speaking out, whether it's on the phone or physically traveling to America and to the West and so on.
But of course, I know there is a price that I have to pay ultimately.
And that could be dire consequences.
It is a very sorry saga, Art, but I mean, I just go on doing the best I can while I'm still at liberty.
Exactly what liberties will disappear in July?
In other words, if nothing else between now and then changes, when the turnover comes, what liberties will be gone?
Well, because the National People's Congress has decided to take back some of our rights About the freedom to associate, the freedom to assemble, the freedom to protect.
So those rights would be very heavily circumscribed come July 1st.
And this illegal provisional legislature will actually operate in the next few months to make new laws regarding those freedoms.
So I think those are the first freedoms that will go.
And also the freedom of the press, which is very dear to our hearts.
It's going quite fast.
There is a lot of self-censorship here already.
And last year, Chinese government officials came out and told the press that, of course, they will be free after 97.
But they can report, but cannot advocate.
And they should not criticize the Chinese leaders.
So I think they've put down so many markers.
And people are, I mean, some of them are being intimidated.
So report the news, but no more editorial policy.
Something like that, I guess.
I mean, how do you draw the line between reporting and advocacy?
I mean, the mind boggles.
And how do you squash assembly in a place like Hong Kong, which is nothing but one giant assembly of the people, anyhow?
Well, they say that in future, if you want to have an assembly, you go to the Commissioner of Police to get his permission.
Yeah, well, actually, don't laugh.
That was the case a few years ago!
It is!
We only changed that very recently when the British, of very late, suddenly found a conscience and said that, oh, we should not have such harsh laws.
So they changed them.
And the Chinese got very, very upset, saying, you have had all these harsh laws all these years.
Now you're about to leave.
And you change them?
You give the people more democracy?
No way!
We're going to bring them back!
All right, Emily, hold on.
We are at the bottom of the hour.
We'll be back in several minutes and speak with you further.
Emily Lau, who is a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council for just a little while longer, will be back in a moment.
And we will get the phones open.
We will let you talk to her.
She's in Hong Kong.
And I'm in the high desert.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert band.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
My guest from Hong Kong is Emily Lau, an endangered species member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council for just a
little while longer.
Sound of rocket launch.
the end.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
♪♪♪ Back now to Hong Kong and Emily Lau.
Emily, welcome back.
Thank you, Art.
Emily, on the internet, Hong Kong is every place!
You can see people and talk to people in Hong Kong every day on the Internet, but not so much in China.
What do you think that China will do with regard to Internet access for Hong Kong residents?
Well, I certainly hope China will do nothing, and I don't think we have got any clear indication on whether China will exert very tight control.
Of course, if that should happen, people would not be too surprised, but we certainly hope that China will exercise self-restraint and not to interfere with such basic rights.
Emily, if things go wrong, if things go terribly wrong, would it be more effective for you to continue your work Or try to continue your work from Hong Kong or would it be better for you to be out?
I think that this is the case with any dissident.
Once you leave your country, your effectiveness will decrease or may even evaporate.
So I think that the best thing really is to stay in the place and fight.
And then of course you may be locked up.
But even then, I mean, look at President Nelson Mandela of South Africa, having been locked up for 26, 27 years.
But if he had been away, it would have been completely different.
Well, that is true.
That's a big price to pay, Emily.
Have you come to terms with yourself that you are prepared to pay that price?
Well, I have said quite often that I do not choose, I do not want to be locked up.
But neither will I shut up!
Because those who don't want to be locked up will say, OK, fine, I will change my tune or I will sing China's praise and then hope for the best.
But I'm not going to do that.
So if I continue to speak out, like talking to you now and then through you to the American people, there may be consequences.
I know that.
And if the consequence should come, then I mean, I understand it.
Not that I would like it, but I know that that may happen to me.
Alright, in Washington right now, there is, as you know, much trouble with scandals involving money from your part of the world that was apparently given to the Clinton administration's re-election effort.
That is going to make it even doubly or more difficult for the Clinton administration to have any voice at all about Hong Kong.
Would you agree?
Well, I'm not so sure.
I think, well, of course, I think we would like to see what kind of things these investigations would come up with.
But maybe President Clinton would like to show that he is really quite independent in terms of pursuing these foreign policy objectives and to show that he has not completely succumbed to the Influence and pressure of people with money, wherever, you know, from the world they're from.
So I don't necessarily think that now, because of these investigations, which are of course very serious, that would completely undermine his ability to stand up and speak up for human rights in Asia.
You have... The Times Magazine of London last month rated you as one of the world's most 100 powerful women.
If the Chinese take over Hong Kong and shut down the press, the freedom of association, assembly and protest, where will your power base come from?
Well, I don't really believe I'm one of the 100 most powerful women in the world.
I don't believe that for one minute.
If you come and look at me, you will see that I'm quite powerless in the sense that, as I said before, this communist giant Very few people in Hong Kong can look that powerful.
But of course, my power base, as an elected politician, has to come from the people.
Yes.
And if the people don't want to stand up, then there is, you know, not very much power remaining in me.
Alright, let's talk about that.
You don't seem very hopeful that the people will stand up.
Right now, as I listen to your voice, Half hour of the interview, you sound somewhat discouraged about the people of Hong Kong.
Is that unfair?
No, no.
And of course, I mean, for journalists, for people who've been in Hong Kong in the last few months and have seen our demonstrations, they find it very amazing that so few people bother to demonstrate.
In many cases, the number of foreign journalists outnumber the demonstrators.
And they have put this question to me time and time again.
They say, where are the people?
Where are the people?
Yes.
And so it is true that people just feel so, you know, they just feel that it is useless to take to the streets.
They don't think we can change China.
And also, of course, they feel quite comfortable right now.
I mean, in Hong Kong, it's not as if we are all terribly intimidated yet.
And the economy is not doing too badly.
So the people feel they're okay.
But if and when the crackdown comes, I guess people will want to rush out and show, you know, how they feel.
Would you lead them if it comes to that?
Well, it's not a question of me leading them.
I think I would want to demonstrate with the people.
And I have been demonstrating.
But not too many of them bothered to come out with us, and that's why it is really sad.
When I was in Washington D.C.
last week, or two weeks ago, I was asked whether we in Hong Kong have ever heard of Belgrade, where the people demonstrated for 80, 90 days non-stop.
And of course, Hong Kong is not Belgrade, but I think the Hong Kong people must learn that they have to stand up for their rights.
Well, isn't it true, Emily, that sometimes you don't know what you have lost until it is gone?
And that the current generation of young people in Hong Kong have never known anything but freedom.
And so they may not know what they have lost until it is gone.
Well, if that's the case, it's very sad.
And we have actually even a cruder expression.
It's, your tears only come out when you see the coffin.
I mean, that's terrible.
And that's what we're doing, urging them not to wait until they see the coffin, but stand up now, because it is not that difficult to envisage losing our freedoms.
All they have to do is look across the border, then they know what to expect.
And sometimes I get a bit exasperated with the people saying, oh well, oh well, there's not much we can do.
I say, what do you mean?
Come on, stand up and fight!
Do many Hong Kong residents regularly go across the border and experience what is in China, or is that not the case?
Oh no, many of them go.
They have relatives and friends, or any holiday.
Any time there are many people who go in, come in and out of China, and people from China come to Hong Kong as well.
So it's not as if they don't know.
And also, of course, our future Chief Executive Mr. C.H.
Tong, the one who will replace Governor Chris Patton, has said that he has a lot of admiration for Singapore.
So he wants us to be like Singapore.
Don't talk about politics.
Just make money.
Just make money.
Do you think that a political crackdown, and there must be one in all of these areas, will stifle the ability to make money?
I mean, there will be an effect if they really Begin to crack down on all of these areas, the money will be squeezed, won't it?
Well, if you hear what some business people say, you may not think like that 100%.
Because some of the business people seem to be prepared for some kind of crackdown.
And then they say they also operate in some very repressive countries, including Burma.
What will happen to the free market now?
i mean if there is money to be made out go there and forget about human rights
but what they do not want of course is uncertainty or whether society very
chaotic that what they don't want
but cracked down so long as it is contained and i think they can still make money what will happen to
the uh... free market now americans have heard it is uh... very expensive
to rent an apartment for example in hong kong
very very expensive It is true and some people are quite surprised because some expect that with 1997 coming, the economy and everything will experience a downturn.
But instead, the economy is still buoyant and the stock market is going through the roof.
And of course we are seeing Chinese money coming in, taking part to prop up the economy.
But we also see some people feeling quite confident because 927 is here already.
If the thing hasn't gone down the tube, then maybe it won't.
And so they all come in and buy.
And hence, you see this feeling of euphoria.
What do you think will occur with investment after the takeover?
Well, I certainly hope nothing drastic will take place and scare the investors, whether it's local or foreign.
And I think on this, we are quite united, whether we are members of the pro-democracy lobby or not.
I think we want Hong Kong to stay as an international business and financial center and remain very attractive to local and foreign investors.
And I don't think the Chinese want to tamper with that.
So on the economic side, the things look more positive.
If there is a crackdown on the press freedom of association, assembly and protest, surely these short days before the takeover, people like you must be preparing for alternative means of distribution of information and so forth just in case.
Are you doing any work like that now?
Well, not really.
If you think we are going to publish something underground and then distribute it, then I think we will get arrested even more quickly.
And then, of course, we want to use the Internet.
But if they want to block it, like they did in China, they can do that as well.
And it's not easy for us to have our own radio station to broadcast to the people.
So I think the means are quite limited.
And what we are working towards is not so much of looking at these alternative means, but rather putting pressure on them to say, you don't do it!
Let us keep our freedoms!
Well, the Internet is a very powerful tool.
What can you tell me about China?
I see a few Chinese on the Internet, it seems like sometimes, but very, very few.
Have they completely shut it down, or what's going on now?
Well, I think they have to route it through some kind of approved service provider or something like that.
And they can block sites that they think are unacceptable.
So over there, it's very much controlled.
But nevertheless, I think it provides a lot of opportunities.
But here in Hong Kong, we're still quite free.
And so I just hope that the Chinese government can be encouraged into giving the people a bit more of a free hand.
Alright, we have a link now to your website from Hong Kong, directly from Hong Kong, the English language portion of your website.
People can go to my website now and see that.
I hope that will remain true after July.
What are you putting on your website to tell the world?
Oh, all sorts of things.
My life history, and also the speeches I've made, the articles I've written, and interviews and so on.
It's very, very interesting, and I certainly would urge people to spend some time to look at it, and also please send me your comments.
All right.
What is going to happen to the infrastructure in Hong Kong?
The police, for example.
What will happen there?
Well, I mean, ostensibly, we're told that everything will not change.
But of course, I mean, the leader will change, and hence the policy may change.
If they are really going to crack down on their political enemies, then surely they will use the police, they will use the Commission Against Corruption, they will use all these law enforcement agencies to go after us.
So that is the concern.
And so it is mainly a question of political freedom.
With the other things, I think they may be quite relaxed.
I mean, they want to make money, everybody wants to get rich, but it's just that they cannot So if a newspaper writes an editorial that is anti-Chinese, the police could be ordered to go in and close down a newspaper.
Do you think the Hong Kong police would just simply take those orders and do it?
Well, I don't know.
That is the short answer.
Because in the past they have worked under British colonial rule, in future they will work under Chinese rule, and many of them will tell you that they carry out orders.
If their leaders should decide to make such orders, I would not be surprised that some of them would be quite willing to carry them out.
That's very sad.
That's also a fact, isn't it?
Yes, many people in America ask such sad questions about their own military.
And it is very sad to contemplate.
So you think enough of them would carry out the orders that the Chinese would not have to bring in their own police or even their military to proceed with this crackdown?
No, I think, I think, I think that's possible.
And anyway, I was arrested last December.
You were?
By the Hong Kong police.
For what?
It's not as if we're just talking about something in the future.
Right now it's still British rule.
Arrested for what, Emily?
For demonstrating.
And that was, we're talking about the 11th of December last year, and on that day, Mr. C.H.
Tung was so-called selected as the Chief Executive of the future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
And the ceremony took place at the Convention Centre in Hong Kong, in Wan Chai.
And of course, we never for one minute believed it was a real selection or election.
The Chinese appointed 400 people and called that the Selection Committee.
And they were supposed to select the Chief Executive and there were supposed to be three candidates.
But everybody knew from day one that, you know, Tung is the man.
And even when the American Assistant Secretary of State, Winston Lord, when he came to Hong Kong at the end of last year, he only asked to see Mr. Tung!
So anyway, we were quite fed up with the farce, with the charade.
So we held a demonstration there to coincide with the selection process.
And, uh, the police, and there were very few of us because especially it's a work day.
Hong Kong people don't demonstrate on work day.
They only demonstrate on holidays.
So there were about only 30, 40 odd of us, very small number.
There were over 500 policemen there to deal with us.
I mean, it was really pathetic.
And then of course we refused to go into this so-called designated area to demonstrate.
We wanted to demonstrate near the entrance so that when these people arrived to cast their vote, they could see us.
The police said, no, you can't.
So we decided to just march around the block because the whole place was, you know, there were barriers everywhere.
So we were marching and suddenly we saw a path.
There was no barrier!
So we tried to cross the road to go over to near the entrance.
And all these policemen descended upon us and tried to push us back.
So what did we do?
We sat on the road.
We actually lay on the road.
And they say, if you don't get up, you're breaking the law.
We're going to arrest you.
And we refused to get up.
We lay there for half an hour.
They came, lifted us up one by one, put us in the police truck, drove us back to the Wan Chai police station, and kept us there for over four hours.
So that happened in December.
After the takeover, of course, the consequences of a demonstration of that sort could be much worse.
Oh, you're right, because we were not prosecuted.
In the end, the government decided not to press any charges, and so that was the end of the matter.
In fact, a journalist came to interview me a few weeks ago, and he said he had just been to see a banker.
The banker told him That he was very pleased that I was arrested.
Why?
Because he said, or he was, of course, was very optimistic, very confident about the future, the banker.
But he somehow feels that, you know, people like me would be arrested again in future by the Chinese.
But now, because the British have set a precedent of arresting me, so in future, when I'm arrested by the Chinese, nobody Including people like you, Art, should be surprised or concerned.
You should then shrug your shoulders and say, oh, that poor girl again.
Oh, Chris Patton arrested her in 96.
Oh, now the communists are arresting her in 97 or 98.
Oh, big deal.
No big surprise, huh?
The American people have been said To have been very lazy, lazy about their democracy, and it sounds to me like you're saying the people of Hong Kong are lazy about their democracy.
True?
You're absolutely right.
Well, the American people then should watch very closely what happens in Hong Kong in the coming months.
Alright, Emily, we are going to open the phone lines and let you talk to the American people in the next hour, if you can stay.
Okay?
Alright, good.
Emily Lau is my guest, a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council.
If it can happen there, it can happen here.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
For worldwide humiliation.
THE SECRET ON FEEL-GOOD SPORTS You may never have been there, but Hong Kong is one of the most beautiful places in the entire world.
It's free, it's fun, it's rich, it's capitalist, and it's about to change.
My guest is Emily Lau.
She's in Hong Kong.
As a matter of fact, she is a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council.
She is a spokesperson for a pro-democracy group there called Frontier.
She's probably going to be in trouble when the takeover occurs in July.
We'll hope not, but she probably is going to be.
The Chinese people, so far, according to Emily, don't seem to be exactly rallying behind the cause.
They're scared.
Or they're lazy.
Or we're not sure what the situation is.
They're probably unsure of what's going to occur.
If you have any questions for Emily Lau, now would be a good time.
We're going to devote this hour, as much as possible, to your questions.
Emily Lau, a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, back in a moment.
Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device
users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
now we take you back to the light of february twenty-fifth nineteen ninety
seven on our girls somewhere in time back down to the other side of the world
and hong kong and emily lau again a member of the uh... hong kong legislative council
due to be disbanded.
by law the new law in july when hong kong goes back to china and uh... of the uh... freedom of the press freedom of association assembly protest uh... will all at that time probably and uh... this was found out this last sunday when china's legislator voted to dilute the hong kong civil liberties laws and so we're talking about the return uh... emily in the united states the average No, I don't think so.
I don't think there are any plans to do that.
But in fact, Hong Kong people do not like to have children, really.
there is a one child her family law
uh... will that log in apply uh... to uh... hong kong
no i don't think though i don't think there are any plans to do that uh... but
in fact uh... hong kong people uh...
i do not like to have children really the birth rate is the lowest in the
world and i think i may just that they want to think is that i a
i don't think that it is right yet to say that on july first we will do
all our freedoms.
It may happen, but I think, you know, we will not lose everything from day one.
Our concern is that, you know, there could be all kinds of restrictions, but I don't think, even I, don't think we're going to be like China immediately.
There is another old saying here about a frog in boiling water.
I'm sure you may have heard that one.
And I wonder if they are going to make the people of Hong Kong like the frogs in boiling water and slowly, slowly, slowly remove bit by bit the freedoms that they don't want you to have.
Is that what is realistic?
Yes, maybe not too slowly.
But not necessarily in one go on day one, that's the point I'm making.
And of course, if we do nothing, we will just encourage them, invite them to take away more of our freedoms.
So I think it also depends on how we, the people, react or fail to react.
On the other hand, Emily, if there is a very strong reaction, then you're inviting another Tiananmen Square.
That's also true, yes.
But even if it's strong, the strongest that we've seen in Hong Kong is in 1989, when we had a million people taking to the streets in a very peaceful manner.
Not one single bottle was broken.
So, I mean, would you regard that as strong, peaceful?
I mean, people out in full force?
Well, strong in numbers, Emily.
Yeah.
So, I mean, yes, people have said that.
They say, yeah, if you all come out, you will get the crackdown even more quickly.
But, I mean, so we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
But I think we must stand up.
And I think China listens.
Art.
Even I said, cynical Emily Lau, that China does listen.
Not to me, but China listens to the rich and the powerful.
That is true.
That is your government, your country.
Is it the best hope, Emily, that economics... You know, the Americans can say what they will, but China will do as she wants to.
And we hope that economics will eventually begin to change the political situation.
First comes economic change, then comes political change.
It may be that Hong Kong will help political change in China.
Could that be true?
Well, I'm not so sure.
If we are going to lose our political freedoms, how on earth can we help the rest of China?
But on the other hand, if we can succeed in persuading the Communist government to allow Western-style democracy to flourish in Hong Kong in some shape or form, And to allow us to enjoy some of our basic freedoms, I think that would be a step forward.
That would be unprecedented in communist history.
Well, would they keep a separation?
In other words, the Chinese are very worried about infection of the ideas of democracy and political freedom.
And are they worried that there will be a big infection from Hong Kong into China?
Oh, obviously they are.
I mean, if you were sitting in Peking, you would probably be concerned as well.
But infection being one thing, but even without the infection, I don't think they would like to see a free and democratic Hong Kong.
But nevertheless, of course, they are saying that if we allow democracy to flourish in Hong Kong, it could spread like cancer to the rest of the Chinese nation.
Yes.
And so that is their concern, obviously.
All right, let's go to some phone calls.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong.
Where are you, please?
Hi, this is Liz in Houston, Texas.
Houston, Texas, okay.
Yes, ma'am.
Ms.
Lau, I pray that your voice will never be silenced.
Thank you.
I know that many Americans have made a very good living working in Hong Kong.
Have you any sense of What their reaction will be, will they turn tail and run, or will they stay and fight with you?
Alright, well the question then is, the Americans in Hong Kong, Emily, who have made very good money, many foreigners, many Americans, do you believe they will stay and not worry, or will they flee?
Well, I am not very sure, because the Americans have been quite quiet.
The American business people Some of whom have been quite outspoken in saying that it's important to concentrate on doing business with China.
And I have not really heard that many Americans speaking out in favor of human rights and democracy in Hong Kong.
It's disappointing.
So I don't know.
I mean, if things go horribly wrong, then of course they would flee.
But I just am not very sure that the ones who are in Hong Kong are really that determined to fight with us.
Emily, it's very hard to know which is the best course for you.
To organize large and peaceful demonstrations that may be taken the wrong way by China, or to quietly wait and see what happens and only begin protest if there are Big crackdowns.
It's hard to know which is the right or best course.
I'm not going to wait.
There's no way.
I mean, I was in New Zealand yesterday and someone asked me, they said, what do you want us to do when you are arrested?
I said, for heaven's sake, don't wait until I'm arrested before you do something.
So don't wait.
And I mean, we can organize demonstrations, but people will have to come out spontaneously.
And I certainly think they should come out now.
I wouldn't tell people to not come out.
We don't want to provoke China.
Of course we don't want to provoke China, but we want to show China we care.
And if I can organize a demonstration of a million people tomorrow, I'll do it!
How about the Hong Kong press now?
Very free.
When I was there, it is no doubt now beginning to chill a little bit.
How much change have you noticed in the press there?
Oh, quite a bit, quite a bit.
And we call it self-censorship.
But of course, this phenomenon is not just restricted to the press.
It's, you see there throughout the community, the business people, the professionals, the academics, the religious.
I mean, people just don't say anything critical of China in public, because they know of, you know, horrible consequences.
So the press, Which is very important to us in a free society, is sadly becoming more and more tame.
I mean, I can read ten newspapers in less than half an hour, because there is not very much to be read.
Oh boy.
Do you maintain contacts with any remaining dissidents in China?
No, I don't have contact with anybody in China, really.
And as I said, the dissidents are all either behind bars, or dead, or in exile.
All right.
Wildcard Line, you are on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong.
Hello.
Thank you, Mr. Bell, for this opportunity.
Sure.
Where are you, sir?
This is Robert in the San Joaquin Valley of California.
All right.
Mrs. Lau, it's an honor to speak to you.
Hello, Robert.
I have visited Hong Kong Through the years, the first time I was in Hong Kong was 1955.
I find the people charming, gracious, and I know I speak for millions of Americans.
We feel our hands are tied.
We wish to help.
Can you help us by telling us what can we do to help?
Yes, Robert.
I think for a start, if you can write to your president, or write to your member of Congress, And tell him or her, you know, whoever it is, to do something to help us, to send a message to China, to tell China to leave us alone.
I think if your politicians start getting millions of letters in their mailbag, I think they would sit up and listen.
The only leverage, Emily, that we have is trade.
Trade.
We could cut off trade or limit trade with China and link it to human rights.
But I think the sense of the American government is that no matter what we would do with trade, China would not move, would not budge.
And many people feel that is why we do not press the human rights issues.
Other Americans believe That it is because there has been money flowing to our current administration to encourage trade and discourage words about human rights.
What do you believe?
Well, obviously the business people, whether they are in America or outside America, have lots of money to spend on lobbying.
And this business of lobbying in Washington is quite extraordinary.
I think you people ought to look at that and do something about it.
But I think there is a lot of pressure brought on the government.
There's no doubt about it.
But I still think that it is important that we get the message home to the politicians that they should also respect human rights and urge the Chinese to respect human rights.
I do not necessarily think that human rights and trade are mutually exclusive.
Because if you tell the American businessman that they have to pay a very high price for human rights elsewhere, that means they cannot trade, they're not going to like it.
And do we really have to say it to them, say, you must give up, you must make sacrifices so that we can get human rights respected in a foreign land?
Do we have to do that?
Well, alright Emily, if the situation becomes bad, should we treat Hong Kong and China together as we treated Africa until there is a change?
I think if the situation is bad, and by bad I mean, and I think you mean very, very gross violations, then I think all bets are off!
Of course!
We have to use whatever weapons at our disposal I mean, I'm not saying that don't touch it ever.
No!
I think if the situation is bad, then we must do everything we can.
But I think in the meantime, what the politicians have not done, and which they can do while still maintaining trade, is to give equal priority to human rights.
The reason China doesn't take America or others seriously Is that, you know, if they go into a meeting with China, behind closed doors, they spend the vast majority of the time talking about trade and other things, and maybe spend one minute on human rights.
Come out of the door, face the camera, TV and radio and so on, they say, oh, we raised the issue of human rights with China, and China knowing full well that they only spend one minute on it, and they laugh.
Well, Emily, your human rights in Hong Kong may be held prisoner by the situation in Korea right now.
Because I think when we talk to the Chinese, we're trying to have a dialogue about Korea more than we are about the human rights of the people of Hong Kong.
Well, I mean, we always know that Hong Kong is very small, and of course we don't mean very much to most people, let alone to America.
And that's something we are very aware of.
We are quite insignificant.
But nevertheless, we feel that we are also a member of the international community, And many people who've been to Hong Kong like Hong Kong.
They are friends of Hong Kong.
Yes.
And now we're reaching out to these friends saying that, hey, we may be in trouble in future.
And if that should happen, please do something to help us.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emily Lau.
Where are you, please?
Art Bell?
Yes.
Okay, I'm Little Rock, Arkansas.
Little Rock, Arkansas.
The president's near the president's home.
Hey, don't get me started on that.
Mr. Lau, it's a pleasure to talk to you, and as a long-time resident of Little Rock, Arkansas, I'd like to... I have no questions, but I have some observations.
That the word of Bill Clinton is totally unreliable.
His administration word is totally unreliable.
The people of Hong Kong, I'm sorry to say, We'll only get lip service, in my opinion.
When push comes to shove, you're not going to have anything from Bill Clinton.
In the recent military exercises with mainland China on Taiwan, Uh, you know, we had a couple of cruisers that maybe went through the straits, but the carriers were on the other side.
And it was, it was only a show, uh, you know, tit for tat or something.
We're, we're going to show it.
But when, when communist China, uh, mainland China, I don't know the right terms.
When they come in there, you're going to get some words and, and as I don't know anything about Mrs. Albright, but she is a, a, uh, administrative appointment.
Probably a fine woman.
Probably has deep convictions.
But she will do what the administration wants.
And right now, all they're going to do is to say, well, we abhor this, and we abhor that.
And if you would go back to 1992, when President Clinton said, we are going to reduce the trade deficits between Japan and the United States, it never happened.
A year ago, two years ago, I believe in our local newspaper, just today or yesterday, Our trade deficit with China was thirty or thirty-six billion dollars.
A year later, it was like three billion dollars more.
Well, all right.
The man makes an interesting point.
Let me ask you this, Emily.
Traditionally, in United States politics, conservative administrations have pushed by human rights as an issue and linked it to uh...
uh... to trade uh... with countries now surprisingly this administration a democrat
administration would expect very strong words
even very strong actions and this administration is weaker than any in my memory
do you agree with that well i don't know about we can and many but it
definitely quite weak uh... but obviously we know the reason
because of the you know the powerful business lobby or maybe because of all
the uh...
the donations All right.
Uh, do you know of any donations that have gone from, um, a communist, uh, sources and been laundered, uh, perhaps through other nations and gone to Washington?
No, no, I don't have any direct information.
Whatever I do know is what I read in the papers, and I think they are investigating it, and I hope to get the results of those investigations soon.
I mean, I think the American people are also quite eager to find out what the hell is going on.
What the hell is going on?
Yes, you're right, Emily.
I mean, do you have quiet suspicions that some money of that sort may have gone to Washington?
Well, because there are all these reports, so obviously people are suspicious.
But I think donations aside, there's also the question of all these lobbyists.
Are these people who go in and out the revolving door?
Well, they're the ones that carry the donations.
Emily, hold on, we'll be right back to you.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 25th, 1997.
I hear the drums echoing tonight, and she has only whispers of some quiet conversation.
She's coming in 1235, the moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me toward salvation.
I stopped an old man I stopped an old man
Soccer Music
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
My guest from Hong Kong is Emily Lau.
She's a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, a spokesperson for the pro-democracy
movement such as it is in Hong Kong right now, and she'll be right back.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
twenty-fifth nineteen ninety seven
back down to hong kong and emily lau emily do you feel
uh...
somewhat betrayed by the people of hong kong that there has not been
more uh... concern more demonstration more rallying around people like yourself
Well, of course, I would like to see more people getting, you know, being ready to stand up to defend their own rights.
That's true.
But if you talk about betrayal, then I think I feel far more betrayed by the British government.
After all, they've run Hong Kong for more than one and a half centuries, and they have not seen fit to give us self-determination or democracy, and now they are just delivering us to communist rule.
I think that's disgraceful.
Yes, and so that is a betrayal.
I'm sure that... What about the rest of the Legislative Council?
Do they generally share your feelings, or is there a whole spectrum of Differing political views.
Well, of course, there are those who agree with China, and they are going to sit on the illegal provisional legislature, but those of us in the pro-democracy camp will have nothing to do with it.
So, yes, we have people with different views in Hong Kong, but only two occasions in which the Hong Kong people had the right to elect their representatives.
They have chosen, with very wide margins, people from the pro-democracy lobby, and that is very clear.
Alright, first time caller line, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong, where are you please?
I'm down in Austin, Texas.
Austin, Texas, alright.
Yeah, I do have a question for Emily, but real quick Art, I've got to say, you have become huge.
You're just absolutely everywhere.
I know I'm personally responsible for I'm really interested to know what you feel.
here in australia um...
and uh... i never have taken the opportunity to commend you for what
you did it because it's really a and uh... i and everybody else appreciate
that uh... for emily
uh...
i'm really interested to know what you feel i know that hong kong is a very vibrant
artistic at the found and and
In fact, when I was in Hong Kong, I watched them making a movie, and in the movie there was a demonstration going on, a very political movie.
So it is a good question.
how you feel that'll be affected well that's a good question in fact when i
was in hong kong uh... i watched them making a movie and in the movie there
was a demonstration uh... of going on a very political uh... movie and uh... so
it is a good question what do you think will happen to the arts in hong kong
well i think anything to do we thinking
the chinese will want to control And I mean, for many years, we do not see many political movies in Hong Kong.
The artists have always, I mean, according to me, I mean, I think they always have been quite self censoring.
What do you think will happen to tourism?
films to the local new china news agency which is the defector chinese embassy
and i think to add it so uh... i i i don't really see much hope of the artist
at being able to be given all the freedom for them uh... to be creative
after ninety seven what do you think will happen to tourism tourism is very
important on on emily uh... i was one of those uh... a tourist and there are been
so many millions coming
to hong kong not so many into china After the takeover, what do you think will happen to the tourist dollars?
Well, I certainly hope that the tourists will continue to come to Hong Kong, and in fact many of them now come to Hong Kong as well as to China.
And from that point of view, I don't think the Chinese Communists would want to To scare away the tourists, or to discourage them from coming.
And if they still find Hong Kong an attractive place, I guess they will keep coming.
Yes, but Emily, when one moves from Hong Kong into Communist China, at the border checkpoints, and elsewhere, the people are not really so friendly, is what I saw.
No smiles, very sour, very unhappy looking people, and I would cry for Hong Kong if it became like that.
Well, I would cry too, I can tell you.
And we are, of course, very different from Mainland China.
And I hope that when the tourists continue to come after the takeover, they will find that we are still different.
And that is exactly what I'm trying to do, what we are trying to do.
is to preserve all these good things about Hong Kong, to get rid of colonial rule, to try to have autonomy, to preserve our freedoms.
We hope still to be very different from the rest of China.
I hope that is so.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong, hello.
Yes, good morning Art.
Good morning, where are you?
I'm in Gardena, California, and good afternoon Emily.
Oh hello, good afternoon.
I was wondering about the income tax situation.
Now, because it will probably be Beijing, or Peking, that will be in control, and because mainland China is such a huge country, and the infrastructure and everything else, has there been any comments about how the income tax will be affected in respect to Hong Kong, and will lower their level or whatever?
Yes, it's a good question.
What will happen to taxation, do you feel, Emily, in Hong Kong?
Well, I mean, if the Chinese are true to their words, they say they will allow us to have autonomy.
And our current system, under British colonial rule, would more or less remain intact, because I think the taxation, the very low tax that we have and all that, seem to have quite a wide popular support.
And I hope That the Chinese will not come in and dismantle it.
But having said that, of course, I am a bit concerned that China may have her eyes on Hong Kong's money.
And somehow, our officials in future may even volunteer to donate Hong Kong's money to China.
I mean, under the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law, we don't have to pay taxes to the central government.
But if you have people who are in charge here who want to ingratiate themselves with Peking whenever there are floods or natural disasters or they may even want to use Hong Kong people's money to buy Chinese bonds.
This is what I'm concerned about.
But what the Chinese have told us is we can keep our current economic system and we don't have to follow that of China's.
Shenzhen province, the economic province near Hong Kong, when you enter Shenzhen, it is a little bit different than the rest of China.
How will they treat Hong Kong like Shenzhen, do you think?
I hope not.
I mean, Hong Kong is very different from Shenzhen, although we are right next to each other.
Shenzhen is a special economic zone, which may be a bit freer than the rest of China, but it is still a million years away from Hong Kong.
We don't want to be like Shenzhen, and I certainly hope the Chinese leaders will not lump the two of us together.
Well, what about freedom of travel between Hong Kong, Shenzhen, and then the rest of China?
I think, especially freedom of the Chinese people to come to Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is a very small place.
As I said, there are now over 6 million of us in an area of about 400 square miles.
And if they want to kill Hong Kong, the easiest thing is to open the border and we will have 20 million people in a few days.
And we're finished.
That's right.
So I think the Chinese understand that.
I hope they do.
But they have to maintain control.
And you think they will not do that?
They will not do what?
Open the borders.
I think they will not.
Because if they do it, I mean, they are not that crazy.
I mean, if they really want to kill Hong Kong, of course they open the borders.
But what I'm afraid of is they will open the borders to their friends and relatives, you know?
That's the trouble with China.
Always people who know the right people will get things done.
Yes, exactly right.
And Hong Kong will be overrun and diluted.
It may be a strategy.
It could be a very sad strategy.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong.
Where are you, please?
I'm in Erie, Pennsylvania.
Yes, sir.
And it's very nice to talk to you, Emily.
Hello.
I always wanted to visit Hong Kong.
I think it's the most beautiful harbor in the world.
And I feel so bad for you and your country, because I see nothing but gloom in your future.
There is a man, In this country.
His name is Dr. Fred Schwartz.
He headed up a organization called the Anti-Communist League.
And he had a quote that always seems to ring true about communists.
He said that you can always trust a communist to be a communist and nothing else.
Communism is, to them, The only goal.
They don't depart from it.
They might look like they depart from it.
They have a construct, and the construct is two steps forward, one step back.
If they get caught being too aggressive in one step, then they'll move back, and then they'll be praised by the Western press.
And then, when everything has died down, They'll do the same thing all over again.
And pretty soon, you're like what Art talked about earlier, you're the frog in the slowly but inexorable heating up of the water.
And I'm afraid that what will happen to you is that all the wealth that you have generated through free enterprise will be sucked up And it will not be sucked up immediately.
And, of course, you're right.
They're not stupid.
They're not going to open up the borders because that would kill their golden goose that they're inheriting.
And all I can say is, Emily, I wish you the best of luck.
Unfortunately, in our country, we have a population that is not astute when it comes to even our own politics.
That's true.
Worry that what I hear from you, Emily, about the people in Hong Kong now is true, perhaps even more so, of the people in my country.
And that is that they do not appreciate the freedoms that they have, and would not appreciate them until they were gone.
And would not do anything until they were gone, and by then, of course, it would be too late.
So, I'm very worried about that.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
This is Dave from the San Francisco area.
San Francisco, yes, sir.
Home to the largest Chinese New Year's parade west of China there.
Yes.
In any case, and listening to your conversation here, first of all, I say another fantastic interview, Art.
Thank you.
And, Emily?
Hello.
Hello.
We want to say, first of all, I want to extend a warm American greeting to To you and all the Chinese people, and for the Chinese leaders that may be listening to this broadcast, we hope they make the right decisions with respect to keeping Hong Kong open for the rest of the world.
Additionally, I was kind of surprised to hear you say that we should write our congressmen, or take action of that nature.
The reason why I say that is because there hasn't been outside interference in the past Outside criticism of China, not work, that's just the nature of China itself.
That really the most successful policy in dealing with China is one of working behind the scenes and reinforcing those attitudes that we feel are appropriate, but not being open to the rest of the world.
And finally, the last comment is, with respect, don't you feel that the Chinese leaders have looked to I hate to break up Taiwan because I know there's a very
adversarial relationship there.
But Taiwan and Hong Kong and seeing how prosperous these two communities are and don't you think
that in the long term and based on what we're seeing in terms of products delivered to the
U.S.
There's a whole lot of stuff that toys, etc. that are being delivered from China.
Don't you think that this is going to moderate the Chinese politics and toughness towards
the rest of the world?
No.
I think you can only moderate or try to moderate China by persuasion, by pressure and not just
by trading and not mentioning human rights.
I think you can do both, as I said earlier.
Trade, I'm not against that.
Always bring up human rights.
Give it equal priority.
I think that's important.
And your other point about talking behind closed doors, you know, using high-profile tactics.
I don't necessarily agree with that either.
And how can you and I talk behind closed doors to the Chinese anyway?
So, because another caller asked me how, you know, the Americans can do to, what they can do to help.
And you can't go and talk to the Peking government behind closed doors, and you can write to your congressman, write to your president!
Emily, but what he was saying was that traditionally with China, forward public pressure has never worked.
They do exactly what they want to do.
That was the point that he was making.
And he was saying, then he was surprised you were asking us to write to our congresspeople, because that would create very public pressure.
But that is what you want, isn't it?
Exactly.
And I think the Chinese have responded to such pressures.
They have released political dissidents.
And we have a journalist in Hong Kong who has been locked up and has been given 12 years for stealing state financial secrets when he wrote an economic story.
And what happened to him recently?
He was released after being kept in jail for three years.
Why did they release him?
Of course it's a stop to public opinion.
Public opinion.
Alright, well then I guess I should ask you, the interview is almost over, so I should ask you the same question they asked you in New Zealand, Emily.
If you are arrested, what would you like those who support you to do?
Well, I hope they will find someone influential and get the person to help.
And I hope they would.
And it's not just for me, really.
If any of us in the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong should get into trouble, I hope people in America, people in the international community will write to their governments, and also, if they can, start some kind of international campaign to help to get these people relieved.
In July, when you lose your job, what will you do?
Well, for a start, I have to find another job, because this current job is my only job, which is quite exceptional, because many of my colleagues have other jobs and other incomes.
Politics is a part-time affair, but I have chosen to work full-time with one income, but I need to earn a living.
So the first thing I will have to do is to find a job in July, and that may be a problem.
It may be, and nobody may want to touch you.
Or any other member of the pro-democracy lobby.
So that is going to be our first problem, Art.
We have a problem earning a living.
How many other pro-democracy people are in the Hong Kong Legislative Council now?
We're talking about 26, 27.
26 or 27?
And then our staff?
All those people who have worked for us, worked with us, the volunteers, all these people could be painted in the eyes of Peking.
I'm sure that's true, and in the eyes of any potential employer in the private sector, if that's what it's going to be.
All right, maybe time for one last question.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Emily Lau in Hong Kong.
Hello.
Yes, my name is Dennis.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I hear you.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Bradenton, Florida.
Alright, we don't have a lot of time, so go ahead and fire a question.
I'll be quick.
Glad to talk to you, Mrs. Lau, and we'll be looking at your situation with interest.
I would like to know, why is it that the Chinese people on the mainland don't throw off communism?
They see what you have and what Taiwan has.
Alright, Emily, why don't they throw off communism?
Well, I think they tried.
Look at what happened to them in 1989.
I think the Chinese people have paid quite a hefty price.
But I think it is ultimately really up to them to do what they like.
In Hong Kong, we are not trying to overthrow the Chinese government.
But I certainly hope the Chinese people will have the right to choose their government.
Alright, Emily, we're at the end of the interview, and I would like to do another one with you when we get very close to the takeover, or when you feel it is necessary.
So, would you stay in touch with me?
I certainly would, and thank you very much for all your support and your concern.
Good luck, Emily.
Thank you.
Thank you, and good afternoon to you.
That's Emily Lau, a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council.
And of course, that will cease to exist in July.
I'm Art Bell, and that's sort of a momentous interview, I suspect.
I hope you were listening.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
The Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
You're listening to the Coast to Coast.
We just spent two hours with Emily Lau, a member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council from Hong Kong.
tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25, 1997.
Good morning everybody, we just spent two hours with Emily Lau, a member of the Hong
Kong Legislative Council from Hong Kong. She's a pro-democracy person and I would like to
say that I have great hopes and admiration for her and I do, but there is a sense within
me that tells me that Hong Kong is in big trouble.
And believe me when I tell you that's very sad.
Those of you who have been to Hong Kong know what I'm talking about, for those of you who have never been there.
I, uh, I wouldn't know how to describe it to you.
It's vibrant, it's alive, it's a happy place, and I fear that's about to end.
At any rate, we'll get underway with open lines and anything you want to talk about for the remainder of the show this morning.
In a moment.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
See, I think there are more secrets out there.
I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
That's what I think is happening.
I don't think that they're stupid people.
I think they have a different agenda than we do.
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Somewhere in Time shows and two weekly classics.
And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
The reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us.
Yes, if we know.
If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not!
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
thing and you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So the bottom line is government will never ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Let me catch you up now on a few things out there folks.
Number one is Philip Taylor Kramer, known as Taylor Kramer, and Kathy Kramer, who is his sister.
You may recall she was on the show.
You may recall during the course of the program, I asked Kathy if she wanted to have Ed Dames Go to work on her situation and he said yes he would and he has.
I am going to read you what I've received thus far from Ed Dames and I only do this after having spoken with Kathy Kramer.
The following came from Ed Dames and SciTech.
Dear Art, Philip Taylor Kramer is dead.
Foul play was involved.
SciTech has a site description for the location of Kramer's badly decomposed body in the state of Montana.
We are continuing our work as promised, and will keep you and key federal, state, and local officials informed.
Edward A. Dames, President, signed.
Now, with trepidation, I spoke to Kathy Kramer, And relayed this much information to her.
On March 6th, Ed Dames will again be my guest along with Kathy Kramer.
I told this when I read this to Kathy Kramer on the phone.
She said, oh my god, he's got relatives in Montana.
When we have Ed Dames back.
He will have more of a description of the site where his body, badly decomposed, it says here, is located.
So we will have them both on the program March 6th.
Right now, you know as much as I know, on March 6th there will be additional information.
So the two of them together on that program.
That's one.
Two.
Tomorrow night, we are going to have a very remarkable person here.
He is John Shepard.
And he comes, he will be coming to us from Central Lake, Michigan.
And for all his adult life, John Shepard has been trying to contact UFOs.
And toward that end, Mr. Shepard has built the most remarkable, remarkable assemblage of electronic gear that has literally taken over his entire home.
I've never seen anything like it in my life.
I suggest between now and tomorrow night that you get up to my website and take a look At what he has assembled, what John Shepard has assembled, it is incredible!
Absolutely mind-boggling!
We've got an entire page, a series of photographs, devoted to Project Strat, and what John Shepard is doing.
So, obviously, you know, there's going to be gridlock tomorrow night when he's on, so get up there beginning now, And take a look at some of, in fact, archive some of these remarkable photographs.
This man is amazing!
So that's on my website now.
It's John Shepard and Project Strat.
Take a look, you won't believe it.
It's at my website www.artbell.com www.artbell.com On another subject, Mel's Hole!
A subject of the final hour Saturday morning and two hours of airtime last night.
A remarkable story of a hole in Manistash, Washington, or in that area, that seemingly has no bottom.
And I'm sure a lot of you heard Mel last night.
Some believed him, some didn't.
I received a number of media inquiries today, newspapers and media in Washington, wishing to contact Mel, and I'm not going to give his number out without Mel's permission.
So I have put a message on his answering machine indicating there is a lot of media that would like to take a little trip out to Mel's property and confirm what we've been hearing.
So I will not give that number out until I get that A confirmation he seemed to indicate last night that he would not mind doing something of that sort, so I would expect it would be in the affirmative, but I don't know that for certain.
So I will await hearing from Mel, and at the moment I do, I will turn his number over to the various media groups that want to go investigate this bottomless hole.
Sort of in a Ripley's Believe It or Not category.
I can't guarantee you that what Mel said was true.
I have no way of knowing.
You literally heard just about everything, short of about five minutes of private conversation that I've heard on the subject.
So, you either believe it or you don't.
Now to another topic.
Cloning.
I am working on Friday night, Saturday morning, having a university professor here.
Who is, at the same time, check this out, folks, a geneticist, a Jesuit priest, and a bioethicist.
All at the same time.
Can you imagine, from a major U.S.
university, somebody with all three disciplines combined?
I've been trying to figure out exactly who would be right To approach this very incredible subject of cloning, both what has been done and what you and I both damn well know has been done, I'm convinced that we are already cloning human beings.
Not publicly.
But if it can be done, it is being done, or will be done, one of the two.
And I can think of nobody more qualified to comment than somebody with All of those disciplines as part of their formal education.
The religious aspects, the scientific aspects, and the ethical aspects.
So, I'll be confirming that for you tomorrow, and if it comes, it will be Friday night, Saturday morning.
In the meantime, in the news, Clinton acknowledging that he backed Donor visits to the White House.
Letting the wheels come for the meals and the lodging.
Bed and board, I guess, huh?
For donations.
DuPont mentally incapacitated, but guilty.
Third-degree murder.
And, of course, in Atlanta, it would appear as though we have some sort of right-wing group Christian group calling itself the Army of God?
Bombing things.
A gay and lesbian nightclub.
Gay and lesbian nightclub.
Martian clinic.
The Centennial Park bombing.
All possibly the work of the Army of God.
Is that really our God?
TNT for our Lord.
Megatons for our Savior.
Not my kind of God, and I suspect not your kind of God, but somebody's kind of God.
The God-o-bombs.
Bombs for our Lord.
Not very funny, really, huh?
So, anything at this point that you would like to talk about, if you would like to talk about, and I know that a lot of you do, this entire cloning affair, this is not a trivial matter.
In the last several years, I have done a number of programs on clones, on the cloning of human beings.
I've known damn well that it was coming, and it's here.
Surprise!
Yesterday's science fiction, today's science fact.
I am not surprised.
I'm really not.
I am surprised that they have acknowledged it publicly, to have the ability to duplicate a human being.
Do you understand what really can be done now?
One of your cells, one of your cells, a little scraping of your skin, or perhaps more efficiently Drop of your blood.
Anything with your DNA sequence could create a new you.
A new and exact you.
A precise you.
A precise John F. Kennedy.
A precise Adolf Hitler.
It's a new day.
I think that it's slowly sinking in.
This story is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger as the American people, the world in fact, begins to realize the implications.
What is now possible?
Boggles the mind.
The creation of a super race.
The possibility that we could create a being, and everybody will say, well, we shouldn't do it.
I hear them on the news all the time.
We can do it, but why would we want to?
Don't be silly!
With genetic manipulation, it's going to be possible to create a human being, an identical you, with organs, pristine organs, lungs, hearts, livers, kidneys, that are identical to the ones you have and we can even create a being who has all of these pristine organs minus a brain minus a brain means you've got a living organ back you've got enough money you've got a living organ back without a brain so ethically there shouldn't be so much problem with a growing this clone of you
And we could potentially keep you alive short of trouble with your brain forever!
And it really gets even deeper than that.
I wonder how many of you remember the soul catcher business?
Soon it may be possible to in effect take what is in your brain store it in a computer and transfer it to a new Receptive brain.
In other words, another you.
Truly all mind-boggling, isn't it?
But right now, that little bit of future science fiction, totally aside for a second, right now we have the ability to create a new you.
To birth an identical you.
Or, presumably, to take DNA from somebody who has passed on that we all have admired and want more of?
Well, by golly, we're going to be able to have more of them!
More John Kennedys!
More Ronald Reagans!
I would imagine an immediate effort to begin to preserve the DNA of people to reproduce them in the future!
Ominous times ahead, folks.
Perhaps the men and the women of the planet no longer need the traditional relationships to produce people that we've had.
Had you considered that?
That, in fact, women no longer will even need men, or at least the traditional use of men in the process of reproduction.
There are those who will seek immediate laws and regulations to prevent this sort of thing.
But since when have laws prevented what men and their egos and women and their egos have wanted to do?
The answer is never.
Make the laws, make the regulations, and there will be those with money and power and influence who will not follow the laws and the regulations, and you and I both know it.
If governments have the power to clone warriors, people with a propensity to fight, to do battle, then you know they will do it, and if we don't, they will.
So, the genie is out of the bottle.
It's out.
That's it.
The questions are not whether we should do it, because we can ask those, I suppose, until we get blue in the face.
The fact of the matter is, we're going to do it.
What are we going to do with it?
What do you want to see done with it?
I think it's going to happen.
Not a matter of, uh, if, but a matter of when, and on what scale.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25, 1997.
Music playing.
You are listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
We are the ones, we own the night.
Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell and it's great to be here.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Alright, 40 reasons why dogs are better than women.
Actually, 39.
There's one that I can't read to you.
So stand by for that.
I've got it right here.
Terribly politically incorrect.
But funny as hell.
So I'll get to that this morning.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello there.
Hello, can you hear me?
I hear you, yes.
I'm calling from Daytona Beach, Florida.
This is Steve.
Hi, Steve.
Yes, I'd like to know a few things.
Number one, this Selectatina that the people that you advertise sometimes with.
Yes.
Does it amplify the signal 75 times what it is?
I like it.
If you barely hear a signal, how many times does it amplify the signal?
Um, all right.
I can tell you, I guess I can put it to you this way.
I don't know about 75 times.
Uh, was your name Steve?
Yeah.
Steve.
Um, it'll, it'll cut out, you know, how, uh, I don't know what station you're listening to, but as it fades in and out, I'm familiar with that.
Uh, it'll cut 90% of that out.
Right.
Not all of it, because nothing will do that, but about 90% without adding any noise.
A lot of schemes to increase AM signals add noise with the signal.
The selected tenant increases the signal without adding any noise at all.
Uh-huh.
And then during the day, it would enable you to hear radio stations that you would just plain not even hear otherwise.
Right.
But the reason I'm asking you this is because I was listening uh... to the people are really show cut couple weeks ago he
had the best of people really
yeah he mentioned that uh... people at the oil industry in the north slope of alaska
yes they have special apparatus to pick up a a m station the lower forty eight he was not sure what the
name of the work he thought the name of what called the a limonator
Like you want to assassinate somebody?
Yeah, that's G. Gordon Liddy thinking for you.
No, it's a selective tent, I'm sure.
And they also put up big skyhooks up there.
They listen to us up there on the North Slope a lot.
But the way he was explaining it, they told him that the people in the oil industry can amplify a signal 75 times what it is, you know, like say things you put on the frequency.
You turn the volume up, you don't hear nothing, right?
Yeah.
You put this thing up against the radio, connected to the radio somehow, and it would amplify the signal 75 times.
And he thought it was called the Eliminator, but he wasn't sure, and I wanted to check with you to see, are you aware of another thing other than the... No, I think that that was a Lydianism, that it was the selected tenor that he was talking about.
Okay, can I talk to you about a couple other things?
Yeah, sure.
Okay, this gentleman that you interviewed the other night in North Carolina about I have an open hearing about UFOs coming on the planet Earth.
Oh, Dr. Stephen Greer of Sea City, yes.
Right now, I listened to the interview, and best of my knowledge, you didn't ask him why the people that you're working with, y'all going to ask for the people in the government who kept this covered up, y'all going to ask for a special prosecutor to investigate and prosecute if anybody in the government... No, we're just going to have them summarily hung.
So there won't be no prosecution?
Yeah, hung.
They're just going to be hung.
Okay, and also this cloning thing.
Yes.
Does it mean if you made a duplicate copy of somebody, does it mean that the duplicate copy definitely would have a brain, but would have the other organs?
No, no.
A very simple manipulation of the genetic structure could ensure there would not be a brain in the clone being.
So in other words, you could literally breed a being for the organs only without the ethical problem of dealing with a human or a soul.
If a clone would have a soul, even.
If you want to make a copy of Art Bell, could you, if you wanted to, have the clone to have a brain?
If you chose to?
I'm not sure I want to proceed with that.
I don't mean you personally, I mean hypothetically.
I don't understand.
There are those who would suggest uh... cynically that uh... to clone me would be uh... to uh... without a brain anyway.
I understand, all right, well look what I'm trying to say is that you could eliminate essentially the ethical argument by ensuring that the clone did not have a brain but in every other way I had organs that would be immediately available and absolutely compatible Uh, with you, physically, and that temptation, uh, is going to be entirely too great for those who want to live.
So, I think that, uh, those who are walking around today, giving the interviews on newscasts that I'm hearing around the country, talking about, well, why would we want to do that?
Um, they're either very naive, or simply prevaricating.
Lying.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
My name is Mary from Honolulu.
Hello, Mary.
Hi.
How are the islands?
Excuse me?
How are the islands this morning?
Oh, they're windy.
Yeah, you know, I had a report that there were 80 mile an hour winds on the Big Island the other day, and 200 homes had the roofs taken right off.
Yeah, we got a warning that we have to take all our furniture off the land.
Where is all of this wind coming from?
Well, um, we get a lot of, um, wind, cold wind from the Arctic.
That's where we get all our wind.
I haven't seen, um, well, I didn't know that weather systems moved from the Arctic to Hawaii.
That's how we, um, in the wintertime, how we get our big wave.
I see.
In winter.
Arctic waves.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, I wanted to ask you, well, if Mel is listening.
Yes.
If somehow he can, um, like, tell us on the air or something.
I was wondering if there are Indian reservations where his hole is.
Oh, I see.
You're wondering if it would be protected sacred ground of some kind?
Yeah, you know?
It's interesting.
It is.
I suppose it's a possibility, but Mel privately owns the land now, so... Yeah, but back when the hole might have been produced, or made.
Well, nobody knows when that was, dear.
I appreciate the call.
I think the next question is whether Mel is going to allow the press to investigate.
And that's what we're hanging on right now.
I've got a message in to him, so we'll see.
I've got a number, as I anticipated, a number of press requests.
People wanting to get a hold of Mel and go trudging out to the property to investigate, of course.
That's a fascinating story.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Yeah, hi.
I have two questions for you.
All right.
And I'm calling from Santa Rosa, California.
Yes, sir.
And one of the questions I have is about the BTEC phone.
All right.
Is that digitally encrypted?
Yes.
OK.
Well, in other words, the process of breaking your voice down into digital components, transmitting it, and then reassembling it is, in itself, Encryption.
The reason I ask is, I have two different kinds of phones.
Both are digital.
One isn't encrypted, and the other is encrypted.
And the difference being that if somebody had very sophisticated digital equipment, they would be able to zoom in on the one, but not the other.
Well, for example, on a scanner, when you listen to a digital signal, you hear nothing.
You hear an increase in the noise floor.
The white noise, maybe.
You know, the khh sound.
But you don't even hear anything that resembles a human voice.
So, to reassemble that would be technically so difficult that... You know, these digital security channels, that's what you're talking about, right?
Yeah.
Meaningless.
That just means that there's a digital signal that's changing your frequency every now and then.
I'm jumping to a clear frequency and there is no more real protection for you than a regular, what you want is a total digital, true digital phone.
Oh, okay.
Not digital security codes.
That's meaningless.
Then you've got an analog signal.
I can sit and listen to you all day on that.
Okay.
And the other thing I want, and I appreciate that, the other thing I wanted to ask you about was with mail.
Yes.
And this, I think it's almost like going back to the whole thing with With Hale Boppin and the potential fraud and trying to go back and find out what the story was.
No, I don't think it was potential.
I think it was absolute fraud.
Right, right.
And I'm saying with Mel, here's a person who's taken a lot of your time, he's taken a lot of our time, and he's making some very bold statements about what he has.
And if you have his phone number, and I know you do, that means Not you, because I know you don't have the time, but there's people who have the ability to go out there and find out whether this man is wasting our time, or whether he's got something.
That's true, but without his permission, I'm not just going to willy-nilly give his phone number out.
That's what I said.
I've got a message into him now requesting permission to give his phone number to the press.
Now, if he refuses to allow that, I would say that would increase the suspicion of many that his story is a whale of a tale.
I do not put Mel's story into the same class as the Hale-Bopp business because with the Hale-Bopp business we had a tenured professor at a major U.S.
university giving us physical evidence that turned out to be fraudulent.
Mel is giving us a whale of a tale and so far has supplied no physical evidence for examination.
Can he send you Is it possible that this is a cavern?
get some kind of i've asked for i've asked for photos and uh... he obviously
at this point cannot get back on the property is going to try to find some
old photos and short of that he will supply a photo or a picture
it is a possible that this is a cavern look at this
you heard on the air everything that i heard
your guest is as good as one I mean, but a cavern would meet these requisites, wouldn't it?
If you had an underground cavern.
No, a cavern, as I understand it, is something that runs either at an angle down, or even up, or horizontally, but not a vertical, precise vertical hole in the ground.
But if you've got filament with the wind blowing on it, and you're trying to drop this, and he's saying 18 miles or 16 miles, if you've got wind blowing and this thing is very, very light, But you don't have wind blowing on it.
That's the whole point.
Thank you.
You've got what is reported to be a perfectly vertical shaft.
Or, you would not be able, and of pretty good size too, what, 9 feet 9 inches, I believe he said.
Or you would not be able to do things like dropping a refrigerator directly down, never hearing it smash into the side or anything else.
In other words, falling perfectly vertically.
Uh, seemingly, uh, forever.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, good morning, Art.
Good morning.
My name's Jim from, uh, southwest Michigan.
Hi, Jim.
Just calling to make a comment on, uh, on the hole there.
What you said last night of the, uh, dog that reappeared that had been thrown in the hole?
Yes.
Kind of reminded me of Stephen King's Pet Sematary.
Very good.
Yeah, that's right.
Hope the government has no plans on doing anything along that line.
Well, I wonder, like cloning, who the government would choose to throw into its newly acquired hole?
I don't know.
I have some suggestions.
As long as they stay gone.
Well, see, that's exactly it, though.
The idea, as in Pet Sematary, is that whoever you throw in comes crawling back later.
Right.
Except in Pet Sematary, they come back a lot worse.
That's right.
Real angry.
Okay, that's my comment for the evening.
Alright sir, thank you.
Among the 40 reasons that dogs are better than women, one, dogs don't cry.
Dogs love it when your friends come over.
Dogs don't care if you use their shampoo.
Dogs think you sing great.
A dog's time in the bathroom is confined to a quick drink.
Dogs Don't expect you to call, even when you're late.
In fact, the later you are, the more excited dogs are to see you.
Dogs will forgive you for playing with other dogs.
Dogs don't notice when you call them by another dog's name.
Dogs, rather, are excited by rough play.
Dogs don't mind if you give their offspring away.
Dogs can really appreciate body hair.
Even fat, ugly guys can get a beautiful, loving dog.
If a dog is gorgeous, other dogs don't hate it.
Female dogs don't mind if you call them a bitch.
Dogs don't chomp.
Dogs don't like it when you leave lots of things on the floor.
In fact, they like it.
They love things on the floor.
A dog's disposition stays the same all month long.
Dogs never need to examine the relationship.
A dog's parents never visit.
Dogs love long car trips.
Dogs understand that instincts are better than asking for directions.
When a dog gets old and snaps at you incessantly, You can shoot it.
Dogs like beer.
Dogs donate their bodies.
Dogs don't ever put on a hundred pounds after reaching adulthood.
Dogs never criticize.
Dogs agree that you have to raise your voice to get your point across.
Dogs never expect gifts.
Dogs don't worry about germs.
Dogs don't want to know about every other dog that you've ever had.
Dogs don't let magazine articles guide their lives.
You never have to wait on a dog, as they're ready to go 24 hours a day.
Dogs have no use for flowers, cards, or jewelry.
Dogs never borrow your shirts.
Dogs enjoy heavy petting in public.
Dogs find you amusing when you're drunk.
Dogs can't talk.
Dogs seldom Outlive you.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
My name is Nelson.
I'm from Anchorage, Alaska.
Well, hi, Nelson.
I'm a first-time caller.
I happen to be a reproductive geneticist, and you had your speakers the other night talking about mammoths, harp, and cloning.
Boy, I was just beside myself.
Really?
That was on Dreamland, and the guest was talking about a pole shift.
Right.
Right, and that's what I wanted to ask you about.
I couldn't get through that evening.
And, um, he did cite another author who was talking about the Mayan prophecies, talking about possible magnetic changes in the Earth.
And, uh, this other author predicted, uh, major Earth changes on 12-28-2012.
That was 5-5, uh... Rather than 5-5-2000.
Oh, I see.
Yes, uh-huh.
that was five five uh... that it by five thousand dollars a year so i think it
would be for the first and compared to the treatment
and i think i have a question We have problems with our America Offline up here in Alaska because we only have one line here.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Hold it.
One first time callers, area 702-727-1222.
Please don't give out the number.
In fact, as a matter of fact, if you give out the number, you're simply going to make it that much worse.
Oh, for America Online?
Yeah.
Yeah, don't give out the number.
You have, so for all of Anchorage, there's one number?
Right.
Right.
Well, there must be more than one.
Anything else is a surcharge that's anywhere between two and six dollars an hour.
Uh-huh.
And so, I was trying to write you a letter because I had heard that you were going to have a cruise up here to Alaska.
Yep, coming to Alaska.
And I was thinking, just as a suggestion, that you could have Mr. or Professor Nick Begich speak at one of your stops.
That's a good idea.
Rather than, there's really not a whole lot to see out at the Kona at the HAARP site, except a whole bunch of antennas and barbed wire fences and whatnot.
Well, we're going to get to... If you were in Anchorage or Denali... Yeah, I've got you.
We're going to get to hear HAARP online pretty soon.
There's a big HAARP test coming up.
We've got the frequencies on the website and the transmit time, so if you're HAM or SWL out there, check it out.
Hey, we are coming to Alaska.
Boy, are we ever coming to Alaska.
Now, what I would like you to do is to get out a pen.
Would you please?
Because when we come back from the break, I'm going to give you the numbers for the Alaskan cruise.
Now, there are a lot of Alaskan cruises out there, folks.
You'll hear other people talking about cruises going hither and yon.
But the cruise that we're going to take to Alaska is the real thing.
Now, what do I mean by the real thing?
I mean that when we get to Alaska, we're not just going to cruise by the ice, the inside passage.
Oh yeah, we'll do all of that.
But we're going to go see the real Alaska.
And to see the real Alaska, as any Alaskan will tell you, you can't just sort of move on by in a cruise ship.
We're going to do that.
All the beautiful sights, but then we're going to do so much more because we're going to Interior, Alaska.
Anchorage.
Fairbanks.
Denali.
You'll be seeing, um, you'll be seeing the real thing, so...
Run and get a pencil, or a pen, and after the break I'll tell you a little bit about the Alaskan cruise that's coming up and why you're going to want to choose this one!
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
This is a video of the Coast to Coast American World Tour.
This is a video of the Coast to Coast American World Tour.
I'm Dr. Dina Dow.
This is typical of what I'm getting, Art.
Please clone Cindy Crawford for me.
I promise not to abuse her.
Signed, Waiting for Cindy, Baby.
Ah, we're doomed.
Tonight's program originally aired February 25th, 1997.
This is typical of what I'm getting, Art.
Please clone Cindy Crawford for me. I promise not to abuse her.
Signed, Waiting for Cindy, baby.
Ah, we're doomed. I'm telling you folks, this is it.
The end is closing in.
Can't you tell?
Do you believe them?
I've got a bridge for you.
The Cloned Bridge.
They will be interesting times, though.
We've been cursed to live through them.
Exciting times.
Wouldn't you say?
It Streamlink the audio subscription service of coast to coast
am has a new name Coast Insider You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
The package includes Podcaster, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Somewhere in Time shows and two weekly classics.
And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
See, I think there are more secrets out there.
I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
That's what I think is happening.
I don't think that they're stupid people.
I think they have a different agenda than we do.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
A phoenix, the amazing cat from Sydney, is only three years old but already has used
eight of his nine lives since his adoption by a physician in 1994.
This accident-prone feline has fallen out of a tenth floor window and lived.
Suffered a vicious mauling by a Rottweiler and lived.
Been zapped by a fallen power cable and lived.
Choked on a plastic mouse requiring CPR, nearly died from food poisoning after eating spoiled fish, been trampled by an angry bull, slipped from the deck of a ship into the Pacific Ocean, and was finally run over by an ice cream truck.
That's Felix the Australian Cat.
That's eight of what are said to be nine lives.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Good morning, Arbel.
This is Travis Cullen from Southern Illinois.
Hello, Travis.
And I'm calling to find out, um, one of my favorite radio personalities you used to listen to on AM was Howard Stern.
Yes.
And, um, I'm always, I've always wondered, like, why he doesn't ever go after some of the mid-sized radio markets, because it would seem to, you know... Well, the answer is, he does.
The question should be, why can't he get into some of the mid-size radio markets?
And the answer to that, I can give you.
It's because of the kind of material he does.
If Howard Stern eliminated about 1% of the totally grossest kind of stuff that he does, he'd be in those radio markets that you're talking about.
As it is, you know, he plays in New York, he plays in LA, he plays in the large city Sophisticated, we've heard everything kind of markets, but he doesn't play in Peoria.
Right.
That's the answer.
Or Carbondale, okay.
Well, one of my manager friends said he charges like a lot of money for his show, and you know that your sense makes a lot, er, your ex... Explanation?
There you go.
Sorry, I'm nervous.
Thank you very much for the call.
No, that's the answer.
That is the answer.
And that's his choice.
He has material that's so far out on the edge.
But, you know, the answer... I've said this for a couple of years now about Howard.
He's actually a very talented person.
But he chooses to be out on that edge that will eliminate him from the middle-sized markets he just doesn't play.
That's his choice, and that's your answer.
First-time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, Howard.
Hi.
I'm Todd from Seattle.
Hi, Todd.
I can't believe I'm on the air.
Um... Yes?
Okay, uh, I got, um, the story about the hole with Mel?
Yes.
Okay.
Um... I've, uh, came across a hole in the same kind of spot in Ellensburg.
Oh?
My aunt and uncle have a cabin, and he was explaining this hole, and my dad listens to your show, we both listen to this, and I got to the point where he was, like, telling me about the same hole, and it ended up, I don't think, being the same one, but I remember... You think you know of a hole like that?
Exactly.
I'm trying to explain it to him.
Well, maybe Washington is littered with these endless, bottomless pits.
Yes.
I can't... I gotta get my breath, because I can't believe I got through, because I've been dying, because I've been hearing people bad-mouthing, you know, his story and stuff like that.
Well, I mean, you know, it's a wild story, so people tend to disbelieve, and it's their right to do so.
Uh, I'm not even sure myself.
I, you know, I tried to ask him as many questions as I could think of, and... Yeah.
No, I totally believe him, because I've been to a hole just similar, and he was like, um, explaining how, you know, wide it was, and like, enough for a refrigerator and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah.
And it was, like, the same, like, width and all that.
Because I remember, like, throwing rocks down there, and not being able to hear, like, when it hits the bottom.
It's gone so far down.
You know, I've never, like, put fishing line down or anything like that, but I've heard Where do you think such a hole goes?
can hear it hitting the sides but then you don't hear any more echo or anything like that.
Where do you think such a hole goes? I have no idea. It goes forever. It's unbelievable,
like listening to, you know, trying to hear, trying to find the echo and you never can find it.
You know, Doggone, I meant to ask Emily Lau about that earlier but I forgot.
You know, from Hong Kong.
I had her on earlier.
You may not have heard that.
Alright, thank you very much.
I mean, she could be on the lookout for the other end of Mel's hole.
But, Emily's got a lot more to worry about.
I have got... Now, I know this is the Weekly World News, but somebody sent me this story, and uh... It shows a picture of this guy, Ray...
Burgard.
His name is, was, is, he's alive.
And it says, impotent no more.
Guys, you won't want to try this at home, even though one man swears it worked for him.
He cured his impotence with a blast to the groin from a stun gun.
Um, that's right.
Ray Burgard, it says, had been impotent for eight years when he decided to take aim at himself.
With a stun gun and fire away.
Now today he's perfectly sexually active and showing no side effects whatsoever.
But even the, quote, brave 42-year-old says that he wouldn't suggest this dramatic cure for everyone.
He said it hurt.
Believe me.
He said it hurt a lot.
And a friend of mine who's a nurse said I could have damaged myself permanently, but in my case I just had a wild idea that somehow it might help, and believe me, it did.
Impotence had taken its toll on him.
He blames the condition for ending his marriage in 1992 and making his social life miserable in the following years.
Well, sure.
He said, I'd always been pretty successful with the ladies and for eleven years I had a beautiful wife, but I'd lost my manly abilities.
Everything went down the drain.
My wife left me and I couldn't keep a steady relationship.
Anyway, check this out.
On August 18th, apparently, in desperation, he took this stun gun into his hand and what he did is he called an ambulance called 9-1-1 moments before he pulled the trigger on the stun gun down to his groin area pulled the trigger said quote I think I had a direct hit but to tell the truth the next thing I remember was waking up and seeing the ambulance workers standing over me the pain was incredible I thought for sure I'd done the wrong thing but the next day all of his sexual abilities
Returned.
And then, to top it off, it shows a picture of this stun gun, probably at about 100,000 volts or something.
And at the end of the story, it has a medical warning.
It says, stun guns are dangerous.
Don't try this without a doctor present.
Can you imagine walking into a doctor's office with your stun gun?
You know, and just having him present while you pull the trigger on yourself.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Uh, yes.
This is a Snipe Hunter from Illinois.
Yes, sir.
And, uh, I just wanted to talk about the, uh, hole there in Washington.
Okay.
And, uh, basically with everybody doubting him, it's going to put a lot of doubts, you know, as far as his story.
Um, you know, people start doubting him.
Then if the government comes in, um, it's not going to work.
What's not going to work?
Well, basically, they're going to step in.
Yeah.
And... How do I say it?
I don't know.
And take his property.
Take his whole, yeah.
Right.
Because now everybody's debt.
Now it's government whole.
There's nothing that can be done.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Without the support of people believing his story, the government's going to have their whole.
Correct.
They're going to... They've got their in that.
What do you think the government would do with the whole?
Maybe it's part of some type of research they're doing.
Maybe it relates in some way to our deficit.
Our debt.
No.
Well, it could, in a way.
You know, a great big ol' deficit.
Well, it's like a never-ending hole.
There's no question about that.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Hello.
Hi, this is Jason from Vancouver, Washington.
Hi, Jason.
Yes.
Got my radio there.
About Mel's little hole there.
Well, it's not little.
Okay, Mel's big hole.
I've heard something like that just a few miles from where I live here in Vancouver.
We've got Battleground Lake, and supposedly this thing is bottomless.
I've never actually found the bottom of it.
Really?
Yeah, and I know there's like a lot of lava tubes and stuff around here, so who knows what it could be.
Maybe the entire Northwest is littered with this kind of thing, you know?
Yeah.
But, um, I was thinking that, uh, you mentioned something about, like, a circle of stones, right?
Uh, actually, yes, uh, and, and something that resembled stonage.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Well, um, he was talking, you know, something about researching Indian legends, and I know there's a guy up in Kelso or Longview area of Washington, over on the western side of the, uh, of the Cascades.
Yes.
His name is Chief Belusca.
Yes.
And this guy is, like, an Indian guy who knows Well, that's as good a suggestion as any.
I really don't know what to say about the whole affair.
all the legends and stuff and has like a big public service thing he does.
So I figure, you know, maybe Mel should give him a call and see what he can tell him about
any legends that any of them might have about these holes or something.
Well, that's as good a suggestion as any.
I really don't know what to say about the whole affair.
I'm waiting to see what happens like everybody else.
But I'm getting a lot of calls from people in your area suggesting there are other holes,
There are other, as you suggest, a lake.
Yeah.
Well, there's ape caves just up north from me a little ways, yeah.
I mean, I've been to those numerous times.
And there's big lava tubes.
And I don't know what the acoustic effect of, you know, lava rock would be, but, I mean, the ape caves were found by some guy that just stumbled on the opening one day, like, caved in in front of him.
And he discovered these, like, it's about a mile long, I think, total.
Well, I guess you people better be careful where you walk.
Yep.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
I appreciate it.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Good morning, Will KSTP St.
Paul.
Hello.
The Scottish scientist cloning paper was embargoed.
The research to be stolen to be published by another research group.
This true story was not published.
By a New York newspaper.
Hey, Will, quit yelling.
Back away from your phone a little bit.
Relax.
Chill out, you know?
However, the Chicago Tribune and the Madison, Wisconsin, this Sunday's papers published this alleged possible allegation at attempted theft of science research.
Well, who cares?
I mean, cloning is cloning.
Once the genie's out, whoever, you know, they can fight over whoever discovered it, but it's out.
It's done.
We're cloning.
Well, there's a nice sentence.
If I could just finish with this, kindly.
May I, kindly?
I don't know.
Are you kindly?
Are you kindly?
The results of the cloning research had been embargoed.
You're yelling again.
Oh, sorry.
Embargoed by the journal Nature.
All right.
Well, thanks, Will.
You know, I don't care who discovered it.
If it's out, it's out.
We're going to fight over who discovered this.
Embargoed.
Stolen.
Oh, Mel.
Imagine a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand Mels, huh?
Would you still want to live?
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello, Art.
Hello.
Has anyone suggested you having David O. check on Mel's story?
No, but every time I have somebody, anybody, turn your radio off please, anybody on here with an unusual story, people call and suggest David Oates, check it out.
Everybody, you know, they want everybody checked out.
It's like I should have David Oates on staff or something.
And retainer.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, you would have thought of it anyway yourself if you wanted to do it, right?
Well, I mean, I'm sure David Oates Saves up a lot of the interesting interviews that I do, knowing that he's going to eventually be back on again doing reversals.
And so I'm sure that you'll hear some reversals on Mel.
Okay.
And I bet he had some beauts in there, too.
Because Mel, you know, you would pause every now and then, and that's when you tend to get the really good reversals, in those pauses.
Yes, he did pause quite a bit.
So sure.
All right.
Just thought I'd mention it.
Love your show.
Thank you.
By the way, would you accept a clone to be your slave?
Tell the truth now, the truth.
I think we go the way of ancient Greece.
Yeah, so do I. Thank you very much.
See, the audience is generally agreeing on this.
All of you are being honest, and I appreciate that.
I've yet to hear my first person say, I wouldn't take a clone.
I wouldn't be part of that.
A slave?
From me?
No.
I'm an individual.
I'm an American.
I'm me.
I don't need a slave.
I don't need anybody doing work for things for me.
Not me!
No, we're getting more honesty around here.
I bet on the other shows, they're all decrying it, right?
I saw a survey that said 80... I think it was 78 or 87% of the people think there ought to be a law against cloning.
Wildcard Lion, you're on the air.
Hello.
Oh, KQMS, Reading, California.
Well, speaking of things that could be cloned.
Oh, you know, do I have to have my own clone or can I have somebody else's?
I I suppose, like cattle, there would be theft of clones and all that sort of thing, and clone rustling.
Yeah.
Hey, you know how you laughed at Ramona when she hurt her toe?
Yeah, it was a terrible thing, but this is the truth.
Don't you feel bad?
I feel bad because I'm that way, too.
I had this friend once, He was standing at the top of these stairs.
It was like stairs, stairs, stairs, stairs, then a landing, then stairs, stairs, stairs.
And he fell down.
And he tumbled down like a cartoon.
He made all this noise.
And it was so funny.
I was in total tears by the time he got to the bottom.
It's horrible.
It was just like off a movie.
He's going, shut up, get out.
I really got hurt.
I know.
Here I am.
Look at those bones sticking out here.
I know.
You know, I think you want me to call 911 or what?
I'm just laughing at him.
It was horrible.
I felt so guilty.
Sophie's listening in.
Well, you know, being on the receiving end of that, I mean, when I did glue my lips shut, it wasn't funny.
I laughed.
It was hard, too.
It was funny.
It wasn't.
It was not funny.
Yes, it was.
It was funny.
I said, with his lips glued shut, he might as well have a heart attack.
It was very funny.
You still appear to be enjoying it.
It was great.
I still imagine you have a little sore on your lip, too.
I do.
A little sore is not the word.
There is a portion Of this side of my lip that's gone.
That's gone?
You'll have to pass that on down to the children.
Flat gone.
It's, it was, it got thrown away in the ashtray.
Listen, uh... It's like an old World War II story.
I lost this piece of my lip and... Uh, brings new life to the old expression, givin', givin' someone a lip.
I could've mailed... I gotta go, Danelle.
I gotta go.
You're sick.
Yeah, I know.
Goodbye.
Sick is what I was.
We'll be back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from February 25th, 1997.
On the ground, your glove I found, with a note addressed to me.
It read, dear love, I've done you wrong, now I must set you free.
No longer can I live with this hurt and this sin I just couldn't tell you that guy was just a friend
Moody River more deadly than the vainest knife Moody River, your muddy water took my baby's life
Oh, and it's alright and it's coming home We gotta get right back where we started from, love is good
Love is good, love can be strong.
We gotta get right back to where we started from.
Do you remember that day?
Yes, surely you did.
When you first came my way.
I said, no one can take your place.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 25th, 1997.
God, I'm telling you, I love this song.
But I'm telling you, I love this song.
It just gets me going.
I was somebody keeps going through my head.
You know, it's one of those one of those things.
Yeah.
Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name.
Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that, and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials, and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not!
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's gotta be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
Now we take you back to the night of February 25th, 1997, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
From Bryn Mawry in San Fran.
Art, I was telling my husband, John, about your adventures with the cart rack.
He said, well, there are some people who shouldn't be around super glue.
I represent that remark, Brynn.
P.S., she says, clone, sign me up for six Timothy Dalton's, please.
Oh, the end is near.
Here's another one.
Art, just a couple of quick notes.
Have you heard that NASA is now in the process of putting together another mission to put a man on the moon?
It was news to me, but I'm corresponding with a young woman who says her cousin's heading the project up.
I'm trying to establish correspondence with him through her.
I'll keep you informed.
Mel's Hole.
Today, I called the Kittitash County Sheriff near Mel's location.
Check this out, folks.
The woman I talked to said she was a longtime resident of the area.
In fact, lives in the Manastash Ridge area, and has not heard any unusual military activity regarding anyone's private property.
She is friends with an older couple who are among the original homesteaders in the area.
They'd never heard of such a whole.
Interesting note, however.
She recalls that about two nights ago, the Sheriff's Office received a call from someone Claiming to have an anomalous hole on their property.
That's all she knew about the call.
She said the call was probably on tape somewhere.
But couldn't put her hands on it at the moment.
Said she'd call me back if she found any further information.
I will keep you informed on this.
Gary in Como Country.
Home of the world's first alien pinup girls.
It's true.
And this advice might go for all of you.
Art, please look out your window right now to the east and slightly to the north.
At about 30 degrees, there is a very bright, fuzzy star.
I just can't imagine your mountain blocking it this high.
It's even better with binoculars.
This is my first fax.
Hope it makes it.
Love your show.
A friend in Kansas City, Gary.
He's talking, of course, about Hell, Bob.
And I am going to, as soon as the show ends this morning, I'm going to go out and take a look.
See if I can see it.
See if it has risen above my mountain.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yeah, good morning, Art.
Good morning, sir.
This is Arnie in the beautiful downtown Fairbanks.
Fairbanks, Alaska, yes.
Oh, I can't wait until your coup hits town.
Yes, indeed.
I hope you have some time to do a book signing.
Maybe a remote broadcast or whatever.
Well, my new book will be out by then, you know.
Oh, that'll be great if you could schedule that.
Anyway, I'm thinking maybe these Scottish scientists should hook up with Mel and conduct a human cloning experiment.
Round up a few politicians and bureaucrats and see how long it would take to fill up that hole.
You've got a good point there.
The only problem with your theory is the dog that was tossed in and came back out alive.
Oh my God, yeah, that's it.
So you've got to think about that.
I mean, what if you began tossing politicians in and, you know, multiples of them came back out or they came back out more powerful than ever?
I mean, it's no wonder the government may have confiscated the damn thing.
Yeah, that's the thought.
One more thing.
You know it's a controversial guest you get there from time to time or basically all the time.
Have you ever considered getting that gentleman that invented the psychological stress evaluator, the voice stress analyzer?
I think it would be fun.
I think it would be.
You take some of your past excerpts from tapes and stuff.
Put them to the test, find out if some of these guys are really for real or if they really believe what they're expounding.
Maybe if we had a little beeping sound that would come on when they started lying their teeth off.
Yeah, that's a thought.
That would settle that thing with Mel and Courtney Brown and some of the others.
It would, but you know what?
Nobody would ever be willing to come on.
Yeah, that's true, but... The world, suppose we had a world where you could not tell a lie.
Take a lot of fun out of it, wouldn't it?
It would.
It would take so much fun out of it because there would be no more guessing, no more imagination.
Everything would be hard, cold facts.
And I wouldn't even have a show.
I've got one suggestion.
Your next airline flight, why don't you take your Alpine living air machine with you and lock yourself in the laboratory for the duration of the flight?
Oh, I'm sure that would be a winner.
I appreciate the call, sir.
Thank you.
I don't want to get sick!
I don't want to get sick!
you know i bet they would let you know she said all we wouldn't think any of my
airline students the other night we wouldn't think anything about it
but if you went in there with an abc mask i guarantee they pin your butt up
against the wall and they figure you had something horrible with you that
you were all set to set loose on an airplane i know they would
and you know they would too or i suppose you could try and make your case through the
mask well i don't want to get sick
i don't want to get sick that's why i'm wearing it up against the wall
You know I'm right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Let me get my radio real quick.
All right, turn that sucker off.
Okay.
Okay.
I talked to you earlier this evening about Stephen Gibbs.
The reason why I... This was before your show.
Yes, uh-huh.
The reason why I called you was I had an interesting dream about him that I thought I'd share with you.
Basically, I got a phone call from somebody that asked me if I had heard what had happened to Stephen Gibbs.
And at first, the name didn't even ring a bell.
Stephen Gibbs, of course, is the man who claims he has a time machine.
Correct.
Absolutely.
For all of the Art Bell listeners who had missed the Stephen Gibbs Show.
Basically, this conversation with this guy, he said that something had happened to it.
And so, he and I began investigating what had happened to him, and oddly enough, we found out what the government was doing at Mel's Hole.
They had popped Stephen Gibbs into a hole.
That was the outcome of the dream.
Now that is some dream.
It's quite a dream.
It may be that you've been listening to my program too long, and too much.
I think it's fine.
I don't doubt that at all.
Alright, I appreciate the call.
You know, I've been having a lot of dreams lately, in which I Which I've been remembering.
And I don't know if that's good or bad.
I've had a lot of dream analysts on here, and you know they all want to analyze your dreams.
And I've said to a lot of them that I don't necessarily like to dream.
Even though the dreams I've been having lately have not been bad.
They've been pretty good ones, actually.
Not nightmares.
But fairly enjoyable dreams.
It still seems to me like it's work to dream.
Do you follow me?
It's work.
In other words, When I go to sleep, I want it to be the little slice of death that it's advertised to be.
I want to just go away and come back later refreshed.
And if you have a dream, it's like work.
I mean, you've got to... You're going through it.
It's like life.
You're going through step-by-step every day.
Not that I don't enjoy life, because I do.
But when I go to sleep, you know, I want my little advertised slice-o-death.
First time caller line, you are upon the air.
Good morning.
Human DNA cloning, Shroud of Turin.
Uh, yeah.
You know, uh, big deal, sir.
It's like you, you know, you're thinking of something new.
Yeah, we all know the Shroud of Turin.
Yeah, they might get a little DNA sample, and then bring, uh, Jesus, that clone Jesus, that's what he's talking about.
You don't have to come at it with some mousy little voice like you're the first one who thought about it, because you're not.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning.
Tim in Denver.
Hi, Tim.
You have this Alaska cruise.
Now, that sounds right up my alley.
I know.
It's up a lot of alleys, isn't it?
I've already called and made my arrangements, so I'm looking forward to that.
Here's a list of things that should never, ever be cloned.
Pauly Shore, Warren Christopher Smile, Branson Missouri, Fred Drescher's voice, Cop Rock, Suddenly Susan, Campaign 96, Pierce Ellinger, and Pat Boone in a mental mood.
Boy, I would agree with just about every one of those.
I wanted to tell you, we've made arrangements to have our meeting taped to this Saturday night.
We'll get you a copy off.
Now that would be cool.
That's with, uh, going to be with Jose and Karen Escamilla.
Really?
Yeah.
That's right.
Well, say hi to Jose for me.
I sure will.
And we'll get a copy off as soon as we, uh, uh, get our meeting off, uh, the ground and, uh, I'm sure it will be something that will be... All right, how do people in Denver contact you about the meeting?
Okay, the meeting is this coming Saturday evening, and it's from 6 to 9 o'clock.
All right, Tim, have fun answering the phone.
Okay, Art, thanks a million.
Yep, see you later.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning.
This is Pat from Burbank, California, and I am a twin.
Burbank, huh?
Yeah.
And my twin's name is Rick, and my name is Pat, and together we're Patrick.
Really?
Yes.
Or are you yanking our chains?
No, no.
And I wouldn't mind having another twin around, and we would treat them just like anything else, I'm sure.
It's just like anybody being able to have a twin in their life, except maybe 20, 30 years behind.
That's pretty odd.
Would such a creature have a soul?
Yeah, I'm sure that souls, if they do come into our bodies like they talk about, I'm sure they would get any kind of an empty shell if they could.
Yeah, but you know, other than in the case of an absolute twin like you, DNA is as specific as a snowflake, yes?
Yes.
And so it may be that cosmically only one soul is allocated per DNA strand.
Well, that's for somebody else to decide.
Hey, listen.
I've got a Levitron story for you.
A great one.
All right.
I've been telling my friends that I've been getting all these mystical powers from a lot of concentration and a lot of time off of work, because I'm not working right now.
I'm on disability.
And I've been spooking them about a few things.
Like, you know one of those bolts that's in a vacuum and has a black and a white side fins in it and spins when you put light on it?
Yeah.
Okay, so I've been telling them that I've been able to Get that moving a little bit and everything.
I've really been pumping them up.
One day, with the help of his wife, I brought over my Levitron to the dining room table.
I took off the cover and opened up the leaf.
I shoved the Levitron magnet, the base, in between, covered up the dining room table with the cloth, and as he was coming home... You shouldn't mess with people like that.
Well, what I did is I cuffed my hands under it, and he walked in the door.
I was going, ohm, ohm, and he saw this thing levitating in my hand.
It was great!
Yeah, I'll tell you, you can have power over people doing something like that.
I couldn't have done it without her help, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to set it up and everything.
And I don't have a leaf, you know, dining room table, but it was great.
I appreciate your call.
Thank you.
That's a pretty dirty trick because they're going to think you're doing magic.
Another way to make people think that you have power is when they hurt themselves, like stub their toe or something, you immediately, without hesitation, tell them that you did that.
And if they keep screwing around with you, it's going to happen again.
I mean, it'll put it on their mind.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Now turn your radio off, please.
It's off.
That's a good.
I was wondering if you could tell me... I'm from Oroville, California.
Oroville, alright.
Uh-huh.
My name's Beverly.
I get you on K-P-A-Y.
Right.
And I was wondering if you could tell me the best time in the early morning to see, uh... How about about right now?
About right now?
Yep.
Oh, good.
I'll go out and see it.
Go look a little bit north of east and about 30 degrees above the horizon.
And if you see a fuzzy star, then go get a pair of binoculars or something and take a good look-see and see if you can see the tail.
Oh, okay.
Alright?
Thanks a lot, and I'm glad you're feeling better.
Oh, thank you.
Me too.
Guess who's getting sick, though?
It was inevitable.
I thought my wife was escaping, and now it looks like she's coming down with what I have had.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
I got a comment about Mel's Hole.
All right.
Anybody who understands the Pacific Northwest knows it's a geographical maze.
Maze?
Absolutely.
The Snoqualmie Hills, the Snoqualmie Mountain there, I think it's got a height of about 700 feet, the Cascade.
I mean, it's full of crevices and holes, and I don't know why this is such a mystery.
Well, I don't either.
Well, I think somebody should... I mean, but when you're talking about a hole that has no apparent bottom, you're talking about something fairly unusual.
You drop a refrigerator into it.
That's big.
And if you can't hear that hip-bottom, you've got a serious hole in your hands.
Well, I think somebody should call the UW Seismology Lab.
They'll come out and investigate.
I'm sure they would.
And the last time I called you... But how are they going to do that if the military has taken Mel's home?
Come on, Art.
But listen, two things.
The last time I called you, two years ago... You haven't called in two years?
No, I have periods of insomnia, and this is the second one.
I see.
I told you there was going to be an earthquake up in the Seattle area?
Yes.
You made the headlines in the paper up there.
I remember that.
But you thought the government could hold that kind of information, and I called the UW Seismology Lab, and there's no way anybody can predict an earthquake.
Second point, too.
The last time I tuned in to you, it was alien lovers.
Oh, you mean Pamela?
I don't know.
I turned it on.
That was Pamela the Lizard lover?
Yeah.
I mean, I could not believe that was entertaining the midnight folk.
But, more importantly, if you have nightmares and you want to slow down your brain, stop that kind of thing.
I didn't say I had nightmares.
I said I've been dreaming a lot lately and that it's like work.
Well, I think that...
I think of alien lizard lovers.
I must have talked about that for three days, because it blew me away.
Well, so did a lot of other people.
I mean, they just couldn't believe that I did it.
But people can't believe that I do a lot of things.
I'll do anything.
I keep telling people, I'll do anything.
They don't believe me.
And then when I demonstrate it, they go nuts.
Well, I am enjoying listening to you again, and I hope when you do your last cruise, because I did do a cruise, but I was up in Denali in early September.
How was it?
Fabulous.
It was a pristine day.
I mean, the day we toured the park.
But more importantly, if people can arise at 2 and 3 in the morning, they might see the aurora.
Oh, I know.
Oh, I know.
And oh, God, is the aurora incredible.
I saw it for years, and it's just... It's the most unbelievable thing you will ever see.
Shimmering, firing across the sky.
It's just, it's amazing.
Well, and I think if you, if you know, I don't know, I'm not going to be taking your cruise, but I know that the Alaska is a huge destination now for the Japanese, because they believe that if they conceive their child and be Aurora Borealis, it will bring good luck to the child.
Huh, interesting.
Well, listen, thank you.
I'm Art Bell. Good night, cosmos.
ADA & shares took place in Boston in March.
In August 2015 the beneficiaries received billions worth of
road taxation BLM
ELAY DST
MUSLIM INC
SA DST
How was it?
Fabulous.
It was a pristine day.
I mean, the day we toured the park.
But more importantly, if people can arise at 2 and 3 in the morning, they might see the aurora.
Oh, I know.
Oh, I know.
And oh, is the aurora incredible.
I saw it for years and it's just... It's the most unbelievable thing you will ever see.
Shimmering, firing across the sky.
It's just, it's amazing.
Well, and I think if you, you know, I don't know, I'm not going to be taking your cruise, but I know that the Alaska is a huge destination now for the Japanese, because they believe that if they conceive their child and be Aurora Borealis, it will bring good luck to the child.
Huh, interesting.
Well, listen, thank you.
I'm Art Bell.
▲
Export Selection